From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Mar 1 18:58:01 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:08:58 2005 Subject: Pair of CSA Transputer Education Kits on E-Pay Message-ID: <3A9EF019.7080506@olf.com> Hi, Currently on auction is a pair of CSA Transputer Education Kits: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2005933703 Cheers, Ram From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Mar 1 01:26:38 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:50 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? Message-ID: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Hello, as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? I have a few drives that desperately need cleaning, a HP 9144 and a HP 9145 (the 9145 is smart enough the blink the "CLEAN" (or something) led on power-up). The not-so-desperate cases are a QIC-24, QIC-150, HP 7979A and a HP 7974. The few docs that I have seem to recommend some sort of Freon based substance but for some weird reason I can't find it in the stores:) So, now my plan is to use isoprophyl alcohol but I'd like to be sure before I do any damage. Thanks in advance, -- jht From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Thu Mar 1 07:46:28 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Websites listing Apollo's for sale Message-ID: <200103010750.BAA18941@opal.tseinc.com> Can anyone recommend any websites that may list Apollo's that are for sale? I have tried eBay and don't see anything there. I even checked the eBay sites set up for each country (ie. Germany, France, etc.) Also, what is the most common model of Apollo that I am likely to find? Are there any companies or educational institutions still using Apollo's and running Domain? -Bill wstan@localhostnl.demon.nl From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Mar 1 02:22:52 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system In-Reply-To: <3A9CEE93.EE5C36A8@home.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010301001927.00b4acd0@pacbell.net> At 07:26 AM 2/28/01 -0500, ip500/craig wrote: > Anyone using or hacking a Wang VS-100 system for anything these > days? I >ran across a very complete looking one in a storage building but as it's >reasonably huge I've left it for the time being. O/S is unique to Wang >is it not? Too proprietary to be of any use? > Thanks, Craig I haven't used a VS system myself, but if you want to get a flavor of what it is like, try running this Wang VS emulator: http://home.planet.nl/~ernest/vs.html It isn't a simple binary emulator; instead, the author is recreating the system at the OS call level. The author has a 45 minute each way train commute, so he has spent the last 8 years or something working on it in bits and pieces. What a slog! Anyway, it's something to get you going. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From auke at dnd.utwente.nl Thu Mar 1 03:41:15 2001 From: auke at dnd.utwente.nl (Auke van Slooten) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: In search of Apollo workstations In-Reply-To: <200102281808.MAA07816@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, William Staniewicz wrote: > Does anyone know where I can find an Apollo > workstation? I am looking for the vintage that > runs the Domain OS. I would also prefer a > source somewhere in Europe, although I could > make special arrangements for the US if > necessary. > > Bill > Amsterdam, NL *swoesh* (sound of a collector delurking) Hi, I have an Apollo DN3000 laying around unused. I'm not really into apollo's, so it's yours if you come and take it away :) Location is at the University of Twente, Enschede, the Netherlands :) It's got a 19" monitor, keyboard, mouse (I think) and a drawingboard/pad. I'm not sure what OS is currently on it though. If you're interested, I've also got an Apollo DN10000, which seems complete but I've never tested it. It's a bit large and heavy though :) ~ Auke van Slooten Enschede, NL From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Mar 1 05:19:25 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: NW USA Quake In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010301061646.00a6bb40@mail.wincom.net> At 10:08 PM 28/02/2001 -0500, you wrote: > My thoughts and prayers go to all of us on the List who have been >affected in any way by the recent siesmicity in Seattle. I hope sincerely >that your families, yourselves, and your Stuff is okay. > > Here in India, as you might know, there was a huge quake which levelled >a whole region, though I live 1250 miles from it, it was felt here (In >Madras) > > Also, there has been El Salvador, and recently in the Afghanistan >region, some activity which affected lives. > > I hope to hear good nes from some of the regular members who post from >the Pacific Northwest. > > > Cheers > >John A rumor circulating up here in the wilds of Canada has it that Bill Gates was addressing Microsoft employees, and the whole thing was planned to make sure they were paying attention. Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 1 04:12:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Message-ID: >Hello, >as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? >I have a few drives that desperately need cleaning, a HP 9144 and a >HP 9145 (the 9145 is smart enough the blink the "CLEAN" (or something) >led on power-up). The not-so-desperate cases are a QIC-24, QIC-150, >HP 7979A and a HP 7974. > >The few docs that I have seem to recommend some sort of Freon based >substance but for some weird reason I can't find it in the stores:) > >So, now my plan is to use isoprophyl alcohol but I'd like to be sure >before I do any damage. Most of us have private hoards of the good stuff, but cleaning with anything that doesn't harm the device is better than nothing. If you use alcohol, don't use rubbing it has glycerin in it, use disinfectant alcohol. One of the things I have seen recently in the Office Depot clearance area are cleaning kits for older media, but I don't remember just which at the moment. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 1 06:39:29 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Denatured (wood) alcohol is available in the hardware stores, Walmrt, etc and is great for cleaning heads and rubber rollers. Also another reason not to use stock rubbing alcohol is the water content as it can cause corrosion. Isopropyl alcohol made for head cleaning is over 90% alcohol but harder to find and way more expensive, but worth it with the end effect. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 4:13 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? >Hello, >as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? >I have a few drives that desperately need cleaning, a HP 9144 and a >HP 9145 (the 9145 is smart enough the blink the "CLEAN" (or something) >led on power-up). The not-so-desperate cases are a QIC-24, QIC-150, >HP 7979A and a HP 7974. > >The few docs that I have seem to recommend some sort of Freon based >substance but for some weird reason I can't find it in the stores:) > >So, now my plan is to use isoprophyl alcohol but I'd like to be sure >before I do any damage. Most of us have private hoards of the good stuff, but cleaning with anything that doesn't harm the device is better than nothing. If you use alcohol, don't use rubbing it has glycerin in it, use disinfectant alcohol. One of the things I have seen recently in the Office Depot clearance area are cleaning kits for older media, but I don't remember just which at the moment. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 1 07:39:39 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: References: <04df01c0a0ee$ae2e3ba0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010301073813.02b5ca30@pc> At 08:16 PM 2/28/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > >> Another reference identifies Yates as a former Air Force officer with an >> aeronautical engineering background: >> http://ieee.cincinnati.fuse.net/reiman/03_1998.html > >An interesting thing about this article is that it says the first >prototype of the Altair, the one that was allegedly lost in shipment, >"arrived a year later". And I was watching Star Trek the other night, the "Nomad" episode. The network was placing snippets on the screen ala Pop-up Videos, and they claimed "Nomad" was originally named "Altair" in an early script. - John From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Mar 1 07:50:29 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Scanner plays music? Message-ID: <20010301.075506.-21125.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:05:53 -0800 Jim Battle writes: > I used to work at a place called Palantir, which changed its name to > Calera, which later got bought by Caere. All of them made/make OCR > equipment. WOW, is that a blast from the past! Palantir made one of the first spell-checkers for Windows 2.0! Gawd, I remember using it with 'write' in 1987. I had always wondered what had happened to them . . . ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From alex at linuxhacker.org Thu Mar 1 07:47:51 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Websites listing Apollo's for sale In-Reply-To: <200103010750.BAA18941@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, William Staniewicz wrote: > Can anyone recommend any websites that may list > Apollo's that are for sale? I have tried eBay and don't I have a pile of Apollo workstations and several large Apollo monitors that I would like to get rid of. I don't know offhand what model they are and can't get to them easily to find out (they're in a friend's mother's garage). I'll take any reasonable offer, but I'd rather the buyer collects in person (from North West England) as they are quite heavy. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 1 09:06:21 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system In-Reply-To: <3A9CEE93.EE5C36A8@home.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010301100621.096fae26@mailhost.intellistar.net> Craig, Fisrt, I don't know anything about any of the Wangs. Second, does the VS-100 have disk drives? If so, what size? I just bought a box of new blank hard sectored 8" floppy disk made by Wang and I was wondering what kind of system used them. Joe At 07:26 AM 2/28/01 -0500, you wrote: > Anyone using or hacking a Wang VS-100 system for anything these days? I >ran across a very complete looking one in a storage building but as it's >reasonably huge I've left it for the time being. O/S is unique to Wang >is it not? Too proprietary to be of any use? > Thanks, Craig > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 1 09:25:47 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010301102547.25f7a8b2@mailhost.intellistar.net> I have a cleaning kit for the HP 9144/9145 it uses what appears to be isopropyl alcohol. I haven't used it in a while so I don't remember if it's marked or not but that's what it appeared to be. Also the 9144/9145s are subject to the same feed roller rot that the other HPs are so check your rollers and see if they've gotten mushy and/or sticky. If they have then cleaning is not going to help. Joe At 09:26 AM 3/1/01 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, >as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? >I have a few drives that desperately need cleaning, a HP 9144 and a >HP 9145 (the 9145 is smart enough the blink the "CLEAN" (or something) >led on power-up). The not-so-desperate cases are a QIC-24, QIC-150, >HP 7979A and a HP 7974. > >The few docs that I have seem to recommend some sort of Freon based >substance but for some weird reason I can't find it in the stores:) > >So, now my plan is to use isoprophyl alcohol but I'd like to be sure >before I do any damage. > >Thanks in advance, >-- >jht > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Mar 1 08:40:27 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Mar 1, 2001 06:39:29 am" Message-ID: <200103011440.f21EeRE64466@bg-tc-ppp915.monmouth.com> > Denatured (wood) alcohol is available in the hardware stores, Walmrt, etc > and is great for cleaning heads and rubber rollers. > > Also another reason not to use stock rubbing alcohol is the water content as > it can cause corrosion. Isopropyl alcohol made for head cleaning is over 90% > alcohol but harder to find and way more expensive, but worth it with the end > effect. > 90% Isopropyl used to be in the local drug stores for $1.00. It seems the 70% stuff seems to be crowding it out on the shelves... but it still can be found if you look for it. Bill From ip500 at home.com Thu Mar 1 09:08:31 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system References: <3.0.1.16.20010301100621.096fae26@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3A9E65EF.172AF086@home.com> Hi Joe, Join the club ... No one seems to know much about them. Other than the fact that they're big! As I recall there were 3 or 4 big floor model hard drives, at least one dual 8" table unit and a big 9 track tape deck too. The CPU was about two rack widths X 4' high or so and Heavy! It's still sitting in the guys storage building I guess. Craig Joe wrote: > > Craig, > > Fisrt, I don't know anything about any of the Wangs. Second, does the > VS-100 have disk drives? If so, what size? I just bought a box of new > blank hard sectored 8" floppy disk made by Wang and I was wondering what > kind of system used them. > > Joe > > At 07:26 AM 2/28/01 -0500, you wrote: > > Anyone using or hacking a Wang VS-100 system for anything these days? I > >ran across a very complete looking one in a storage building but as it's > >reasonably huge I've left it for the time being. O/S is unique to Wang > >is it not? Too proprietary to be of any use? > > Thanks, Craig > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Mar 1 09:04:41 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Contents overview of Transputer Applications Notebook References: Message-ID: <3A9E6509.5060704@olf.com> Hi Tony, Tony Duell wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have both books, but I currently dont have access to them. Thanks a lot. >> I wanted to know which tech notes were duplicated in the Inmos Technical >> Notes >> and Communicating Sequential Processing books. Do you have those books? > > > I'm pretty sure I have the former book, but not the latter. I have the > well-known book 'Communicating Sequential Processes' by Hoare, but I > don't think that's the same one at all. Ooops, that should have been Communicating Process Architecture, I got my books back. The Technical Notes & Communicating Process Architecture is a repackage of the Transputer Application Notebooks. 95% of the technical notes that are found in the Application Notebooks are in the technical notes & CPA book. Hoare's CSP book is a classic, but I havent had much luck finding it. I am also looking for the CACM article by Hoare on CSP's as well. Not much luck getting that either :-( > > I also should have (somewhere) the Transputer databook, the instruction > set book, the TRAM databook, the T9000 databook, etc. TRAM databook? Never heard of this one. What is in it? I dont have any of the T9000-based books either :-( Ram From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 1 09:11:38 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010301071138.009ac6d0@192.168.42.129> At 09:26 01-03-2001 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, >as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? Been using 99% isopropyl alky here for years. No problems to date. The only thing I will say is that you shouldn't use standard Q-tips for swabs. They're loosely wound, and come apart way too easily. Use either foam swabs, or cotton-tippers that are explicitly designed for cleaning tape heads (tight-wound, long wooden sticks). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Mar 1 08:54:27 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ References: Message-ID: <004201c0a25f$83bbf520$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ > On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > Another reference identifies Yates as a former Air Force officer with an > > aeronautical engineering background: > > http://ieee.cincinnati.fuse.net/reiman/03_1998.html > > An interesting thing about this article is that it says the first > prototype of the Altair, the one that was allegedly lost in shipment, > "arrived a year later". > If true, this is interesting in a "Treasure Hunter" sort of way. Assuming the machine did eventually show up, it may still exist. The legend of its loss is familiar to most collectors, so if you could prove that you had _that_ machine, it would presumably be worth a lot more than your average Altair. If Ed Roberts verifies this story, it would be interesting to know if Altair prototype #1 had any features that would positively identify it. And no, I don't have any old Altairs I'm shortly putting up on eBay : v ) Mark. From at258 at osfn.org Thu Mar 1 09:27:14 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system In-Reply-To: <3A9E65EF.172AF086@home.com> Message-ID: Tommy Junker can probably help you out with the VS100 on the VSlist. I think they require a special boot console, or that may be the VS300. We're hoping to get one of these eventually. On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, ip500 wrote: > Hi Joe, > Join the club ... No one seems to know much about them. Other than the > fact that they're big! As I recall there were 3 or 4 big floor model > hard drives, at least one dual 8" table unit and a big 9 track tape deck > too. The CPU was about two rack widths X 4' high or so and Heavy! It's > still sitting in the guys storage building I guess. > Craig > > Joe wrote: > > > > Craig, > > > > Fisrt, I don't know anything about any of the Wangs. Second, does the > > VS-100 have disk drives? If so, what size? I just bought a box of new > > blank hard sectored 8" floppy disk made by Wang and I was wondering what > > kind of system used them. > > > > Joe > > > > At 07:26 AM 2/28/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > Anyone using or hacking a Wang VS-100 system for anything these days? I > > >ran across a very complete looking one in a storage building but as it's > > >reasonably huge I've left it for the time being. O/S is unique to Wang > > >is it not? Too proprietary to be of any use? > > > Thanks, Craig > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:30:51 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system Message-ID: I can say for sure that my 2200MVP's floppy drives use them, as all of the software and floppies I have for it are Wang hard-sector floppies... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Thu Mar 1 09:44:23 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system In-Reply-To: <3A9E65EF.172AF086@home.com> Message-ID: <000901c0a266$7d9e1590$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> I'll add a little something. Since this topic is so open. I took apart a VS90 a couple of years ago. It was passive backplane, extremely wide (capacity 30 cards?) separate data and control busses, multiprocessing '086 architecture. Neat hidden blinkenlight conbtriool panel. Will, didn't you get one of those CPU cards, couldit've been 8086? John A. disclaimer: one or more errors possible above (I have a cold) From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:37:43 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system Message-ID: I'd say it must be the 100 that requires the boot console, as the 300 has a console built into it. Heck, the 300 is like an 11/780, i.e. has 2 computers in one, since it contains an entire Wang PC as the console/front end. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:41:56 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? Message-ID: I also have that cleaning kit, but both (totally empty) bottles are marked "Freon TF"... But I still love my genuine IBM Tape Unit Cleaner, "Contains Trichlorotrifluoroethane, isopropyl alcohol." Should I ever run out of tape drives to clean, just add water and then its Sterno, hehe Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 09:51:15 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Wang VS-100 system Message-ID: John, Yes, I got around 3 or 4 of them, but those boards were all I/O boards, memory, and maybe a disk controller.. All that Intel parts do in those machines is run I/O... the CPU is custom. The CPU in my VS300 appears to be made of 74AS881 4-bit ALU's and other 74xx parts, as well as 29xx parts. 32 bits, by the way. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 1 10:38:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010301071138.009ac6d0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: There's a swab that's flat and has a non-fibrous chanois like material on them that you can get for cassette and vcr heads that work really well too but you usually have to buy 2 or 3 dozen at a time. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:12 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? At 09:26 01-03-2001 +0200, you wrote: >Hello, >as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? Been using 99% isopropyl alky here for years. No problems to date. The only thing I will say is that you shouldn't use standard Q-tips for swabs. They're loosely wound, and come apart way too easily. Use either foam swabs, or cotton-tippers that are explicitly designed for cleaning tape heads (tight-wound, long wooden sticks). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 1 10:38:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <200103011440.f21EeRE64466@bg-tc-ppp915.monmouth.com> Message-ID: To tell you the truth I hadn'y even thought to look for it there, I'm too busy looking for the drugs (hehehe). I'll see if the ones around here might have it as my expensive HP squirt bottle of 97 or 99% is about gone (lasted 5 yrs). My next thought was maybe a chemical or scientific/lab supply where I could buy a quart or so and be set for a long time. The nice thing about the iso with a little water content is that it gets the water solubles off at the same time the alcohol solubles come off whereas denatured doens't alwys take care of the water based dirt, but it does do a number on tar/nicotine from machines used around smokers. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Pechter Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 8:40 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? > Denatured (wood) alcohol is available in the hardware stores, Walmrt, etc > and is great for cleaning heads and rubber rollers. > > Also another reason not to use stock rubbing alcohol is the water content as > it can cause corrosion. Isopropyl alcohol made for head cleaning is over 90% > alcohol but harder to find and way more expensive, but worth it with the end > effect. > 90% Isopropyl used to be in the local drug stores for $1.00. It seems the 70% stuff seems to be crowding it out on the shelves... but it still can be found if you look for it. Bill From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 1 10:38:53 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One thing to note about the triclorotriflouroethane, aka "trike" - it's a carcinogen unlike it's replacement triclorotriflouroethylne. I used gallons of the stuff as a degreaser backk in the military before spraying polyuerethane on missiles (another really bad product for your body) and then they tell us that it's a dangerous product in more ways than we've been led to believe. Don't dump it, just use gloves when you use it. Seems the trich can be absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream and eventually wreak havoc with your liver many years down the road. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Will Jennings Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 9:42 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? I also have that cleaning kit, but both (totally empty) bottles are marked "Freon TF"... But I still love my genuine IBM Tape Unit Cleaner, "Contains Trichlorotrifluoroethane, isopropyl alcohol." Should I ever run out of tape drives to clean, just add water and then its Sterno, hehe Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Mar 1 10:52:40 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo's message of "Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:26:38 +0200" References: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Message-ID: <200103011652.f21Gqex35762@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? Isopropyl alcohol (>91%) and lint-free cloths. Should be OK on all HP 914x and 79[78]x drives *excepting* 7976, whose drive is some bizarre STC contraption that is made with the vacuum columns lined with little glass beads that are glued to the sides of the column -- alcohol is a solvent for this glue! -Frank McConnell From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 1 10:56:56 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? Message-ID: Hehe, yes I would agree that missiles are a *very* bad product for your body : ) And yes, I know what you were meaning but I love being a smartass... Yes I can tell its lovely stuff, its labeled harmful or fatal if swallowed, vapor harmful, avoid prologned skin contact, etc. etc. etc. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 1 13:11:00 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010301141100.22cfbc22@mailhost.intellistar.net> Can someone E-mail me a Teledisk copy of the Diagnotics/Setup disk for the IBM XT/286? The regular AT version will probably also work. I need it ASAP. Thanks, Joe From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 1 12:04:37 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:51 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From one smartass to another (grin) -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Will Jennings Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:57 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? Hehe, yes I would agree that missiles are a *very* bad product for your body : ) And yes, I know what you were meaning but I love being a smartass... Yes I can tell its lovely stuff, its labeled harmful or fatal if swallowed, vapor harmful, avoid prologned skin contact, etc. etc. etc. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 1 12:11:34 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Subject: Contents overview of Transputer Applications Noteboo k Message-ID: Ram That title seems to ring a bell. Somewhere I have the full set of the documentation and software that came with the CSA transputer kit. I also have a set of the boards that go in the PC. One board is a single t805 with the PC interface the other contains 4 T805's that can be connected via jumper cables. 5-6 years ago I modeled several ultrasound algorithms using the transputer to see if parallel processing using the transputer would produce real-time images. The kit came with reprints of several transputer and occam articles. I also researched what others had done and got reprints of their articles. My local public library has a book on creating applications using the transputer. I'll try and dig up more this weekend. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 1 11:07:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: <004201c0a25f$83bbf520$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Mark Gregory wrote: > If true, this is interesting in a "Treasure Hunter" sort of way. Assuming > the machine did eventually show up, it may still exist. The legend of its > loss is familiar to most collectors, so if you could prove that you had > _that_ machine, it would presumably be worth a lot more than your average > Altair. If Ed Roberts verifies this story, it would be interesting to know > if Altair prototype #1 had any features that would positively identify it. >From what I understand the bus was wired up as opposed to being a PCB board. The pictures in the Jan/75 issue of PE show three boards being stacked one upon the other with 1" standoffs in between. Was this a mock-up? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 1 12:20:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> from "Jarkko Teppo" at Mar 1, 1 09:26:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1053 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010301/f6a793cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 1 12:23:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 1, 1 06:39:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 475 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010301/ba98b19b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 1 12:27:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Contents overview of Transputer Applications Notebook In-Reply-To: <3A9E6509.5060704@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Mar 1, 1 10:04:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1702 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010301/f74082a9/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Thu Mar 1 12:41:53 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Looking for old GI PIC1665 MCU's References: Message-ID: <3A9E97F1.376FBDD4@atari-history.com> Hi, If anyone has any of these old 64 pin beasties please let me know, I'm also looking for the old GI PFD 1020 Field Demo system which was a PIC development board. Thanks, Curt From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Mar 1 13:01:11 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <200103011652.f21Gqex35762@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from Frank McConnell at "Mar 1, 2001 08:52:40 am" Message-ID: <200103011901.f21J1Bg65100@bg-tc-ppp101.monmouth.com> > Jarkko Teppo wrote: > > as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? > > Isopropyl alcohol (>91%) and lint-free cloths. Should be OK on all HP > 914x and 79[78]x drives *excepting* 7976, whose drive is some bizarre > STC contraption that is made with the vacuum columns lined with > little glass beads that are glued to the sides of the column -- > alcohol is a solvent for this glue! > > -Frank McConnell the same glass bead tape is used in DEC drives... watch out on the use of alcohol on the vacuum column walls. (This includes TU/TE10->16 TU45's TU77/8's and probably the STC TU7x's.) Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Mar 1 13:05:45 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Subject: Contents overview of Transputer Applications Noteboo References: Message-ID: <3A9E9D89.5010200@olf.com> Hi Mike, Never mind, I got my book back. However, do you have any of the CSA software? I have the software that came with the TEK. That is, the occam compiler, C compiler, utilites, but I cant seem to find the modula-2 compiler nor the utilities to program the link switches (Part 6 or 7 series). Also, a list of your transputer articles would be helpful just in case I am missing something :-) Thanks, Ram McFadden, Mike wrote: > Ram > That title seems to ring a bell. > Somewhere I have the full set of the documentation and software that came > with the CSA transputer kit. I also have a set of the boards that go in the > PC. One board is a single t805 with the PC interface the other contains 4 > T805's that can be connected via jumper cables. 5-6 years ago I modeled > several ultrasound algorithms using the transputer to see if parallel > processing using the transputer would produce real-time images. > > The kit came with reprints of several transputer and occam articles. I also > researched what others had done and got reprints of their articles. My > local public library has a book on creating applications using the > transputer. > > I'll try and dig up more this weekend. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 1 13:34:26 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Contents overview of Transputer Applications Noteboo k Message-ID: Ram the book my local library has is: Title : Parallel processing : the transputer and its applications / edited by M.E.C. Hull, D. Crookes, P.J. Sweeney. Publication : Wokingham, England ; Reading, Mass. : Addison-Wesley Pub. Co., c1994. Description : xii, 328 p. : ill. ; 24 cm. Series : International computer science series Note : Includes bibliographical references and index. Subject(s) : * > Author(s) : Hull, M. E. C.Crookes, Daniel, 1956-Sweeney, P. J. (Patrick J.) ISBN : 0201627558 Holdings : Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From donm at cts.com Thu Mar 1 13:40:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010301141100.22cfbc22@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > Can someone E-mail me a Teledisk copy of the Diagnotics/Setup disk for > the IBM XT/286? The regular AT version will probably also work. I need it > ASAP. > > Thanks, > Joe Joe, you can get it from ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/ as either atdg207.exe or atdg207.tg0 - the latter requires a program called TeleGet that is keyed to the special version of TeleDisk that created the image. - don From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Thu Mar 1 14:11:39 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Apple II CP/M card In-Reply-To: <200103010235.UAA15796@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: For a good overview of Apple II CP/M, please see http://www.blkbox.com/~jdbaker/SmallSys/AppleCPM.html Paul R. Santa-Maria Monore, Michigan USA From vcf at siconic.com Thu Mar 1 13:48:43 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) Message-ID: The rescue of a very obscure 70s era mini-computer was accomplished last Thursday and Friday. It had been sitting in a storage shed on a forsaken piece of property in Tampa, Florida, for at least 15 years, quite possibly 20. Although it wasn't exposed to the elements, the humidity, termites and rats did a number on the machine. I was told of the machine by a man related to the person who used to own the property, but has been passed away now for several years. The property was tied up in probate, and he invited me to just come and take the machine whenever I wanted. The machine was made by Four Phase Systems, somewhere in the 1972-73 timeframe. Four Phase Systems was a company that ran out of Santa Clara, California, from the late-60s through the 80s. I believe they were eventually bought out by Motorola. One of the biggest technological achievements of Four Phase was in producing a sort of microprocessor before Intel, in the 1968-1969 timeframe. It was called the AL1 and was intended to be a general purpose CPU for mini-computer systems. I don't have many details on it yet but I'm awaiting more literature. I became aware of it from my research during VCF 2.0, when I was promoting the unveiling of Ray Holt's F14 CADC "microprocessor". I don't know if the AL1 has all the elements of a "microprocessor" as defined by the base standard, which is the Intel 4004. But one professor at North Carolina State University wrote a paper arguing that FPS could have called it a microprocessor, but chose not to. He's sending me a copy of the paper he wrote and I'll report further when I receive it. The rescue was not without its challenges. Louis and his wife met me at the airport and we drove over to the site. It was a dark storage shed cluttered with junk. We immediately set about pulling out the computer hardware. Luckily, it was all in racks on rollers, but we still had to roll it out onto dirt to get it onto the truck. The machines were filthy, having been infested with rat's nests. We didn't realize the extent of it until we got them to Louis' warehouse. Louis had made a couple prior visits to investigate the site and to round up various bits of documentation. Some of the manuals were almost complete destroyed by termites. They looked simply water damaged until you opened them up, where you would find that they were almost completely eaten out by termites (with still live termites running around inside). Fortunately, a lot of the documentation did survive in relatively good shape. We grabbed up all the docs worth saving and stuffed them into two big garbage bags. I'll have to sort through them (and hopefully not introduce a horrible strain of termites to the California environment :) Some of the manuals that survived included schematics of the various boards that comprise the system. We loaded everything up onto the truck within the limits of the sunlight we had. We then drove it over to Louis' warehouse. The next morning we palletized everything for shipping. We had a 5' tall 19" rack for the CPU, another for the tape drive, and then a 3' tall cabinet that housed a removeable platter hard drive. We also got a smaller Xerox 800 word processing machine. All the racks had a tremendous amount of shredded paper, Spanish moss, and other undesirable elements from the rat's nests. One nest even contained the remains of one of its previous inhabitants. Luckily, Louis' shop had an air compressor. We tried to blow everything out as thoroughly as possible. Here are the pictures of the machine: CPU card cage http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20CPU.jpg CPU Front Panel (front cover removed) http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Front%20Panel.jpg CPU (left) and tape drive http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Mini-Computer.jpg This picture shows the grime and yuck that was inside the hard drive unit. A lot of the mess was the decayed sound-dampening foam lining the inside: http://www.siconic.com/computers/Inside%20Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Hard%20Drive.jpg This picture shows the rat's nest inside the Xerox 800 unit: http://www.siconic.com/computers/Xerox%20800%20Rat's%20Nest.jpg I didn't take any pictures of the terminals, but we saved four out of the 8 or 9 that were there. We also found an old Televideo all-in-one CP/M machine inside the house on the property. We put the CPU and tape drive on one pallet, and the hard drive on another. I left the Xerox 800 behind, for now. Louis is holding it for me until I can determine if it is significant enough to save. The reason I left it is because it is fairly rusted inside. I don't like to trash anything, but the circumstances being that it was very rusted and I didn't want to fill another pallet, I decided to leave it until I could research it further to determine if it is worth saving. It looks like it might be some predecessor of the Xerox 820 computer, as it has the same color scheme and badge. Or it may be related to the 8010 in some odd way. I'm not sure. But if someone has information on this machine I'd certainly appreciate you sharing it. It had a typewriter attached by a thick cable, and two digital cassette drives on the front. If anyone has any info on this machine then please let me know. If it ends up being worth saving, Louis will ship it out to me. If not, Louis will dumpster it. I shoved the rest of the terminals, keyboards and documentation inside the open space of the cabinets, first wrapping them in cardboard to give them some cushioning. Everything was very snug. We wrapped the machines in cardboard and then Louis banded them. Everything was tight. We had a guy from the business next door load everything onto the U-Haul we rented with a forklift. If we'd thought about it, we could have gotten by without the U-Haul, since we originally were going to use pallets that would not have fit inside Louis' pickup. But we ended up using very narrow pallets. Oh well. Something to keep in mind for next time. We drove the pallets out to Forward Air in Tampa for shipping. (http://www.forwardair.com). Forward Air is a favorite shipper amongst arcade game collectors (and myself) because it is so cheap. They charge USD$0.20/lbs from Tampa to San Francisco (rates vary depending on distance and other factors). The only drawback is that you must haul your pallets to and from their depots, which are located throughout the US (check their website for locations). But it's entirely worth it. The pallets weighed way more than we anticipated: 1,377 pounds total! I was thinking, based on the weight estimates I initially got, that it would cost me only around $120 to ship. It ended up being $294. Still, not bad for almost 3/4 of a ton. I will have more information about the machine once I retrieve it from Forward Air's depot in San Francisco either today or tomorrow. I'll have a chance to look over everything over the weekend. I'd like to profusely thank Louis Schulman and his wife for their help with this project. I certainly would have had extraordinary difficulty trying to do this whole thing without his help. While we're on the topic of Louis, I would just like to give a plug to his business, Island Wood Works. He makes fantastic outdoor wood furniture. This is real quality stuff. You folks in Florida (and just about anywhere for that matter...they've shipped furniture to places all over the country, including the San Diego Zoo) should definitely give Louis a call and buy some furniture from him. His number is 727/572.1119, or find him on the web at http://www.islandwoodworks.com. He's in Clearwater. Thanks, Louis!!! Lessons learned: I planned well in advance for this adventure. You all might remember me posting a message back in January asking for assistance on this project. I got a few responses (thanks, all), but Louis was right in the Tampa area, had a truck, the facilities to palletize everything, and a keen sense of adventure, so it worked out perfectly. I checked where everything was in advance (the nearest U-Haul location, the location of Forward Air, the hotel I'd be staying in, etc.) from MapQuest which helped me get an idea of the geography and how much driving/hauling would be involved. It was very, very helpful having Louis pre-field the site and try to determine how much everything weighed so I could estimate the shipping costs for my budget. This, it turns out, is more difficult to estimate than one might think. We thought each rack weighed only a couple hundred pounds but it turns out each must've weighed 400-500 each. U-Haul is always a fricken nightmare. Just trying to get them to answer the phone is a challenge. I've used them many times before, but I'm pretty well aware of what goes on inside U-Haul because they were a client of the last company I worked for, and I've visited their coporate HQ. The place is a mess. Still, it is the only game in town, and the best value (as long as the truck doesn't break down :) It cost $42 to rent a 10' truck, but only for the 4 hours they allowed us to keep it (their rentals are not "daily", but they still charge you the full 24 hour rate). Don't get me started on how much I hate U-Haul, but as I said, they are the only game in town unless you want to shell out a hundred bucks to use a truck for a day with a company like Ryder or something. Forward Air is a great company to use for shipping large loads of old computers. I used them before on a haul of Xerox 6085 "Daybreaks" from Raleigh, North Carolina, and that went well. Be aware that Forward Air does have a reputation for dropping things and damaging them. I hope my machine arrived OK, but I won't know until I go get it. I'll report on it once I do. Still, the value can't be beat. Always give yourself enough leeway in terms of time. Everything went as well for us as it could have, and so we actually finished quicker than I originally scheduled. I planned to leave on Saturday morning for Fort Lauderdale, but ended up taking off at 4pm on Friday instead. Retrieving the computers only took about 2 hours. Palletizing everything took about 4 hours. We did this leisurely. If we'd have rushed we probably could have done it all in 2 hours. This was a very fun project. Every serious big iron collector should do at least one long distance haul like this. Even you guys who only collect micros should try something like this once. It always makes for good stories to share with other collectors. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From curt at atari-history.com Thu Mar 1 16:26:34 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3A9ECC9A.B83C031D@atari-history.com> Bravo Sellam!!!! Superb work indeed, your incredible efforts deserve a HUGE round of applause! Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > The rescue of a very obscure 70s era mini-computer was accomplished last > Thursday and Friday. It had been sitting in a storage shed on a forsaken > piece of property in Tampa, Florida, for at least 15 years, quite possibly > 20. Although it wasn't exposed to the elements, the humidity, termites > and rats did a number on the machine. I was told of the machine by a man > related to the person who used to own the property, but has been passed > away now for several years. The property was tied up in probate, and he > invited me to just come and take the machine whenever I wanted. > > The machine was made by Four Phase Systems, somewhere in the 1972-73 > timeframe. Four Phase Systems was a company that ran out of Santa Clara, > California, from the late-60s through the 80s. I believe they were > eventually bought out by Motorola. One of the biggest technological > achievements of Four Phase was in producing a sort of microprocessor > before Intel, in the 1968-1969 timeframe. It was called the AL1 and was > intended to be a general purpose CPU for mini-computer systems. I don't > have many details on it yet but I'm awaiting more literature. I became > aware of it from my research during VCF 2.0, when I was promoting the > unveiling of Ray Holt's F14 CADC "microprocessor". > > I don't know if the AL1 has all the elements of a "microprocessor" as > defined by the base standard, which is the Intel 4004. But one professor > at North Carolina State University wrote a paper arguing that FPS could > have called it a microprocessor, but chose not to. He's sending me a copy > of the paper he wrote and I'll report further when I receive it. > > The rescue was not without its challenges. Louis and his wife met me at > the airport and we drove over to the site. It was a dark storage shed > cluttered with junk. We immediately set about pulling out the computer > hardware. Luckily, it was all in racks on rollers, but we still had to > roll it out onto dirt to get it onto the truck. The machines were filthy, > having been infested with rat's nests. We didn't realize the extent of it > until we got them to Louis' warehouse. Louis had made a couple prior > visits to investigate the site and to round up various bits of > documentation. Some of the manuals were almost complete destroyed by > termites. They looked simply water damaged until you opened them up, > where you would find that they were almost completely eaten out by > termites (with still live termites running around inside). Fortunately, a > lot of the documentation did survive in relatively good shape. We grabbed > up all the docs worth saving and stuffed them into two big garbage bags. > I'll have to sort through them (and hopefully not introduce a horrible > strain of termites to the California environment :) Some of the manuals > that survived included schematics of the various boards that comprise the > system. > > We loaded everything up onto the truck within the limits of the sunlight > we had. We then drove it over to Louis' warehouse. The next morning we > palletized everything for shipping. We had a 5' tall 19" rack for the > CPU, another for the tape drive, and then a 3' tall cabinet that housed a > removeable platter hard drive. We also got a smaller Xerox 800 word > processing machine. All the racks had a tremendous amount of shredded > paper, Spanish moss, and other undesirable elements from the rat's nests. > One nest even contained the remains of one of its previous inhabitants. > Luckily, Louis' shop had an air compressor. We tried to blow everything > out as thoroughly as possible. > > Here are the pictures of the machine: > > CPU card cage > http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20CPU.jpg > > CPU Front Panel (front cover removed) > http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Front%20Panel.jpg > > CPU (left) and tape drive > http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Mini-Computer.jpg > > This picture shows the grime and yuck that was inside the hard drive > unit. A lot of the mess was the decayed sound-dampening foam lining the > inside: > > http://www.siconic.com/computers/Inside%20Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Hard%20Drive.jpg > > This picture shows the rat's nest inside the Xerox 800 unit: > > http://www.siconic.com/computers/Xerox%20800%20Rat's%20Nest.jpg > > I didn't take any pictures of the terminals, but we saved four out of the > 8 or 9 that were there. We also found an old Televideo all-in-one CP/M > machine inside the house on the property. > > We put the CPU and tape drive on one pallet, and the hard drive on > another. I left the Xerox 800 behind, for now. Louis is holding it for > me until I can determine if it is significant enough to save. The reason > I left it is because it is fairly rusted inside. I don't like to trash > anything, but the circumstances being that it was very rusted and I didn't > want to fill another pallet, I decided to leave it until I could research > it further to determine if it is worth saving. It looks like it might be > some predecessor of the Xerox 820 computer, as it has the same color > scheme and badge. Or it may be related to the 8010 in some odd way. I'm > not sure. But if someone has information on this machine I'd certainly > appreciate you sharing it. It had a typewriter attached by a thick cable, > and two digital cassette drives on the front. If anyone has any info on > this machine then please let me know. If it ends up being worth saving, > Louis will ship it out to me. If not, Louis will dumpster it. > > I shoved the rest of the terminals, keyboards and documentation inside the > open space of the cabinets, first wrapping them in cardboard to give them > some cushioning. Everything was very snug. We wrapped the machines in > cardboard and then Louis banded them. Everything was tight. > > We had a guy from the business next door load everything onto the U-Haul > we rented with a forklift. If we'd thought about it, we could have gotten > by without the U-Haul, since we originally were going to use pallets that > would not have fit inside Louis' pickup. But we ended up using very > narrow pallets. Oh well. Something to keep in mind for next time. > > We drove the pallets out to Forward Air in Tampa for shipping. > (http://www.forwardair.com). Forward Air is a favorite shipper amongst > arcade game collectors (and myself) because it is so cheap. They charge > USD$0.20/lbs from Tampa to San Francisco (rates vary depending on distance > and other factors). The only drawback is that you must haul your pallets > to and from their depots, which are located throughout the US (check their > website for locations). But it's entirely worth it. The pallets weighed > way more than we anticipated: 1,377 pounds total! I was thinking, based > on the weight estimates I initially got, that it would cost me only around > $120 to ship. It ended up being $294. Still, not bad for almost 3/4 of a > ton. > > I will have more information about the machine once I retrieve it from > Forward Air's depot in San Francisco either today or tomorrow. I'll have > a chance to look over everything over the weekend. > > I'd like to profusely thank Louis Schulman and his wife for their help > with this project. I certainly would have had extraordinary difficulty > trying to do this whole thing without his help. > > While we're on the topic of Louis, I would just like to give a plug to his > business, Island Wood Works. He makes fantastic outdoor wood furniture. > This is real quality stuff. You folks in Florida (and just about anywhere > for that matter...they've shipped furniture to places all over the > country, including the San Diego Zoo) should definitely give Louis a call > and buy some furniture from him. His number is 727/572.1119, or find him > on the web at http://www.islandwoodworks.com. He's in Clearwater. > > Thanks, Louis!!! > > Lessons learned: > > I planned well in advance for this adventure. You all might remember me > posting a message back in January asking for assistance on this project. I > got a few responses (thanks, all), but Louis was right in the Tampa area, > had a truck, the facilities to palletize everything, and a keen sense of > adventure, so it worked out perfectly. > > I checked where everything was in advance (the nearest U-Haul location, > the location of Forward Air, the hotel I'd be staying in, etc.) from > MapQuest which helped me get an idea of the geography and how much > driving/hauling would be involved. > > It was very, very helpful having Louis pre-field the site and try to > determine how much everything weighed so I could estimate the shipping > costs for my budget. This, it turns out, is more difficult to estimate > than one might think. We thought each rack weighed only a couple hundred > pounds but it turns out each must've weighed 400-500 each. > > U-Haul is always a fricken nightmare. Just trying to get them to answer > the phone is a challenge. I've used them many times before, but I'm > pretty well aware of what goes on inside U-Haul because they were a client > of the last company I worked for, and I've visited their coporate HQ. > The place is a mess. Still, it is the only game in town, and the best > value (as long as the truck doesn't break down :) It cost $42 to rent a > 10' truck, but only for the 4 hours they allowed us to keep it (their > rentals are not "daily", but they still charge you the full 24 hour rate). > Don't get me started on how much I hate U-Haul, but as I said, they are > the only game in town unless you want to shell out a hundred bucks to use > a truck for a day with a company like Ryder or something. > > Forward Air is a great company to use for shipping large loads of old > computers. I used them before on a haul of Xerox 6085 "Daybreaks" from > Raleigh, North Carolina, and that went well. Be aware that Forward Air > does have a reputation for dropping things and damaging them. I hope my > machine arrived OK, but I won't know until I go get it. I'll report on it > once I do. Still, the value can't be beat. > > Always give yourself enough leeway in terms of time. Everything went as > well for us as it could have, and so we actually finished quicker than I > originally scheduled. I planned to leave on Saturday morning for Fort > Lauderdale, but ended up taking off at 4pm on Friday instead. Retrieving > the computers only took about 2 hours. Palletizing everything took about > 4 hours. We did this leisurely. If we'd have rushed we probably could > have done it all in 2 hours. > > This was a very fun project. Every serious big iron collector should do > at least one long distance haul like this. Even you guys who only collect > micros should try something like this once. It always makes for good > stories to share with other collectors. > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 1 17:18:33 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <008901c0a2a5$efc45960$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:18 AM Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) (From one lover of big iron to another) > The rescue of a very obscure 70s era mini-computer was accomplished last > Thursday and Friday. It had been sitting in a storage shed on a forsaken > piece of property in Tampa, Florida, for at least 15 years, quite possibly > 20 Nice catch Sellam. Well planned and executed operation. Looks a bit ratty (sorry, couldn't resist) but I've seen worse looking stuff still clean up pretty well. Looks like there's a very good chance it's restorable to functioning condition. Best of luck with it. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From louiss at gate.net Thu Mar 1 17:23:43 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010301141100.22cfbc22@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <200103012323.SAA14386@cocopah.gate.net> Yes, it is the same as the AT setup disk, and last time I checked it was on IBM Canada's ftp site. Louis On Thu, 01 Mar 2001 14:11:00 -0500, Joe wrote: > Can someone E-mail me a Teledisk copy of the Diagnotics/Setup disk for >the IBM XT/286? The regular AT version will probably also work. I need it >ASAP. > > Thanks, > Joe > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 1 17:06:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Websites listing Apollo's for sale In-Reply-To: References: <200103010750.BAA18941@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >and can't get to them easily to find out (they're in a friend's mother's >garage). I'll take any reasonable offer, but I'd rather the buyer collects I don't want any more Apollo's, but I would like to know how you talk a friends mother into letting you store computer stuff in her garage. ;) From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 1 13:27:29 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Digital mouse puck goes to what? In-Reply-To: References: <41575B2947B7D411A03C00508BCFF16201D6B373@usa07.cs.lmco.com> Message-ID: <20010302002815.YXJE757.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi, Got this 3 button round puck by way of friend's junk parts box. VSXXX-AA, condition is clean but function unknown because I do not have a machine to test this mouse with. If somebody wants this, I'm looking for a trade for a AAUI TP dongle for my Centris 610. Alteratively, a 68040 25 or doubled 50 version, or 68882-25. Cheers, Wizard From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Thu Mar 1 15:56:10 2001 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: UNIX question [was: Re: VAX question] In-Reply-To: Paul Thompson's message of "Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:54:37 -0600 (CST)" Message-ID: <87ofvlm9vp.fsf@yodacity.local> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Thompson writes: Paul> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> Did VMS have a built in utility that allowed to 1) time how >> long a given user was logged in, and/or 2) track what >> directories on the VAX the user entered? Paul> Two potential answers ACC/FULL/SINCE=whenever/USER= Paul> You could probably use ANAL/AUDIT to check what directories Paul> were entered but would need to have set up the ACL's ahead Paul> of time. Obviously not wanting to raise a UNIX vs VAX war, I was just wondering whether that kind of tracking would be possible using UNIX... Any suggestions/comments? Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From rdd at smart.net Thu Mar 1 19:30:29 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, great rescue! It's fairly easy for someone to just pick up a small workstation, or microcomputer, and often a fair amount of work to rescue a minicomputer system (esp. if it's got to be disassembled to be moved), but to rescue a system like that Four Phase system that was in the condition you found it in, with remains from rats, termites, etc., is no pleasant task---although you'll no doubt be having fun once you get it cleaned up. Well done! Best of luck with the restoration of this system! Thanks for posting the photos and other information. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 1 21:17:13 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010301141100.22cfbc22@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010301221713.24570b08@mailhost.intellistar.net> I still need a copy of the setup disk. It's SUPPOSED to be posted at IBM's FTP site but it's not. CAN SOMEONE MAKE A TELEDISK COPY AND SEND IT TO ME? jOE At 02:11 PM 3/1/01 -0500, you wrote: > Can someone E-mail me a Teledisk copy of the Diagnotics/Setup disk for >the IBM XT/286? The regular AT version will probably also work. I need it >ASAP. > > Thanks, > Joe > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 1 19:00:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <008901c0a2a5$efc45960$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Looks a bit ratty (sorry, couldn't resist) but I've seen worse looking > stuff still clean up pretty well. :) > Looks like there's a very good chance it's restorable to functioning > condition. I'm not betting on it. The humidity really did a number on the boards, although upon casual inspection it doesn't seem they are too bad off. Just some slight corrosion. The problem is that many of ICs on the boards are custom Four Phase chips. Finding replacements for ones that may turn up bad will be difficult, to say the least. The other problem is that the backplane seemed to have some corrosion, so the slots will need clean-up. I'm expecting that after I inspect it more closely I will find that it is a big mess, but we'll see. The most important thing is that the machine was preserved. We did also find a couple tapes laying about that may or may not have the OS on them, and then may or may not even be readable anymore (I'm guessing towards not). We also found a couple hard drive platters, one in the drive and one sitting out. I left the one sitting out, as I figured it was a total loss. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Mar 1 20:30:14 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Digital mouse puck goes to what? In-Reply-To: <20010302002815.YXJE757.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010302022905.JCID15476.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> This mouse is for a Digital Equipment Corporation VAXSTATION. Not a bad mouse but wierd because it is round. It is easy to lose your place with a round mouse.... Regards, Jeff In <20010302002815.YXJE757.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron>, on 03/01/01 at 09:30 PM, jpero@sympatico.ca said: >Hi, >Got this 3 button round puck by way of friend's junk parts box. >VSXXX-AA, condition is clean but function unknown because I do not have >a machine to test this mouse with. >If somebody wants this, I'm looking for a trade for a AAUI TP dongle for >my Centris 610. Alteratively, a 68040 25 or doubled 50 version, or >68882-25. >Cheers, >Wizard -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Mar 1 20:39:03 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Message-ID: <20010302024847.JVBJ15476.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> For cleaning a tape drive, ISO alcohol should be just fine. Many folks will tell you that chemwipes and special solvents are required. This is not true. A paper towel (I like the scott brand) and some ISO alcohol will work peachy. Maybe 800 cleanings will harm it but a few hundred won't. As for cleaning TAPES themselves I used the same paper towels and alcohol. It is laborious but will get the job done. If you want pure alcohol, go to your local liquor store and buy a bottle of EVERCLEAR. This is very pure alcohol with no added ingredients. Be careful as alcohol is flammable as hell. I suspect what you may have is a 'squeaky' tape. This is mostly caused by oxide from the tape being deposited on the read head along with it's binding agents (glue). The tape then would be at fault: You can clean the tape by holding a pad of alcohol soaked paper towel against the tape and then manually spooling it through the drive several times. This will remove a layer of bad oxide and glue while retaining the data. Believe me. I rescued a couple of important tapes this way. There is such a thing as a tape cleaner machine, but they are expensive and hard to come by. Basicly, they are tape drives with angled cutting edges on which the tape bears. These edges (blades) scrape the 'bad' layer off the tape revealing a good bearing read surface. Alcohol is also a nice lubricant if a tape is judged unsalvageable. You can dump a bottle onto a tape, and run it through your drive ONCE. The alcohol will help prevent the tape from shedding oxide during the read. Once you are done, clean the head with alcohol thouroughly and then write your copy to a good tape. Best of luck, Jeff In <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local>, on 03/01/01 at 09:39 PM, Jarkko Teppo said: >Hello, >as the subject says, what do you people use for tape cleaning ? I have a >few drives that desperately need cleaning, a HP 9144 and a HP 9145 (the >9145 is smart enough the blink the "CLEAN" (or something) led on >power-up). The not-so-desperate cases are a QIC-24, QIC-150, HP 7979A and >a HP 7974. >The few docs that I have seem to recommend some sort of Freon based >substance but for some weird reason I can't find it in the stores:) >So, now my plan is to use isoprophyl alcohol but I'd like to be sure >before I do any damage. >Thanks in advance, -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Mar 1 20:52:46 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: VAX question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010302025326.JZLG15476.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The answer is yes and maybe. VMS has a built-in function for just about anything but downloadable utilities make things much easier. I use an uptime function I downloaded to find out how long the system has been up. I don't know about usage logging but there is an internal way as well as a more friendly 3rd party way. Visit www.montagar.com and see what is out there. If you are Alpha you are in a better place than Vax, but the function is still there. Regards, Jeff In , on 03/01/01 at 09:52 PM, Vintage Computer Festival said: >VAX g00r00s! >This question was posed to me: >Did VMS have a built in utility that allowed to 1) time how long a given >user was logged in, and/or 2) track what directories on the VAX the user >entered? >Answers appreciated. Thanks! >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 1 20:59:17 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3A9F0C85.5365BF00@internet1.net> Hello, Could you repost the links to the pictures you took? I am new here and missed them :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ip500 at home.com Thu Mar 1 21:07:12 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3A9F0E60.521ACB55@home.com> Florida humidity is a real killer for unprotected electronics! I'm sure Joe has seen lots of horror stories down where he is. I put in 27 years in St Pete [just across the bay from Tampa] and watched tapes & disks grow fuzzy white mold & black mildew spots after only a few years in non-climate controlled storage. All sorts of nasty, subtle [and NOT so subtle] corrosion problems. Makes trouble shooting anything electronic lots of fun! Craig Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > Looks a bit ratty (sorry, couldn't resist) but I've seen worse looking > > stuff still clean up pretty well. > > :) > > > Looks like there's a very good chance it's restorable to functioning > > condition. > > I'm not betting on it. The humidity really did a number on the boards, > although upon casual inspection it doesn't seem they are too bad off. Just > some slight corrosion. The problem is that many of ICs on the boards are > custom Four Phase chips. Finding replacements for ones that may turn up > bad will be difficult, to say the least. > > The other problem is that the backplane seemed to have some corrosion, so > the slots will need clean-up. I'm expecting that after I inspect it more > closely I will find that it is a big mess, but we'll see. > > The most important thing is that the machine was preserved. We did also > find a couple tapes laying about that may or may not have the OS on them, > and then may or may not even be readable anymore (I'm guessing towards > not). We also found a couple hard drive platters, one in the drive and > one sitting out. I left the one sitting out, as I figured it was a total > loss. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 1 21:14:07 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: New here :-) Message-ID: <3A9F0FFF.EEAECD17@internet1.net> Hello Everyone, I am not really sure what kinds or types of computers are represented here. I have an Apple //e, an IBM Model 80 with Reply Powerboard, a Unisys 486 server, an IBM XT, my main Pentium based system (socket7) and various other PCs that need work. I sort of assume that many people here have much larger computers and older computers than myself.... how true is that? I am looking to thin my collection..... and and to it :-) I may be getting a PDP11/53 ..... probably my first "real" computer by some standards :-) I am looking to get rid of a Texas Instruments Professional Computer (TI PC) immediately if anyone is interested. It is in great shape, but unfortunately needs a proprietary keyboard, and I don't know what exactly for a monitor. It also used a custom version of Microsoft DOS, that I don't have.... it won't boot from a regular DOS boot disk. It has two 360K full height floppy drives, and no HD. It will cost only the price of shipping, plus maybe a little extra, if I have to buy more bubble wrap, or a box, or whatever. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From whdawson at mlynk.com Thu Mar 1 21:42:55 2001 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010301221713.24570b08@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000501c0a2ca$dd9e3380$b99e72d1@main> -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:17 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk I still need a copy of the setup disk. It's SUPPOSED to be posted at IBM's FTP site but it's not. CAN SOMEONE MAKE A TELEDISK COPY AND SEND IT TO ME? jOE At 02:11 PM 3/1/01 -0500, you wrote: > Can someone E-mail me a Teledisk copy of the Diagnotics/Setup disk for >the IBM XT/286? The regular AT version will probably also work. I need it >ASAP. > > Thanks, > Joe > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 1 16:46:24 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <000501c0a2ca$dd9e3380$b99e72d1@main> References: <3.0.1.16.20010301221713.24570b08@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20010302034709.YUOF25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Bill Dawson" > To: > Subject: RE: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk > Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:42:55 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 10:17 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk > > > I still need a copy of the setup disk. It's SUPPOSED to be posted at > IBM's FTP site but it's not. CAN SOMEONE MAKE A TELEDISK COPY AND SEND IT > TO ME? > Joe, I used a phoneix bios cmos setup program for the old 286 clones, works 100% Yes, did that on XT/286. Hint: That bios DOES have 1.44MB support. Cheers, Wizard From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Mar 1 22:01:25 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: UNIX question [was: Re: VAX question] In-Reply-To: <87ofvlm9vp.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: Unix is less of a given. If a machine is running the vendor's 'enhanced security' very granular auditing can often be done if enabled ahead of time. My 10 year old Ultrix 4.2a machine running enhanced security was able to track the directories I entered, although that functionality evaporated after Y2K since the DEC Y2k fixes for auditing and accounting only applied to 4.3a and above. Otherwise on plain security unix 'last' will give login times, and looking in the .sh_history might indicate whether someone went in a directory if they have not taken the time to edit the commands out. Drifting ever more off topic, there is some new package for AIX and solaris which is supposed to make the machine virtually uncrackable by taking away root's godliness and replacing it with a VMS-like privilege system. Apparently it has stood up well to a hacker challenge. On 1 Mar 2001, Rodrigo Ventura wrote: > Obviously not wanting to raise a UNIX vs VAX war, I was just > wondering whether that kind of tracking would be possible using > UNIX... Any suggestions/comments? > > Cheers, From whdawson at mlynk.com Thu Mar 1 22:18:16 2001 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3A9F0FFF.EEAECD17@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000a01c0a2cf$cdfe50e0$b99e72d1@main> -> I am looking to get rid of a Texas Instruments Professional Computer (TI -> PC) immediately if anyone is interested. It is in great shape, but -> unfortunately needs a proprietary keyboard, and I don't know what -> exactly for a monitor. It also used a custom version of Microsoft DOS, -> that I don't have.... it won't boot from a regular DOS boot disk. It -> has two 360K full height floppy drives, and no HD. -> It will cost only the price of shipping, plus maybe a little extra, if I -> have to buy more bubble wrap, or a box, or whatever. I have a keyboard for one of these, but it doesn't work (anymore). I found out the hard way about 5 years ago that when you plug these into a regular XT, all the magic smoke escapes from the keyboard. If anyone is interested, I still have it (TI LOW PROFILE KEYBOARD P/N 2230528-0001). It's complete except for the missing smoke and free for the cost of shipping also. Bill Washington, PA From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 1 21:11:17 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <3A9F0C85.5365BF00@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Could you repost the links to the pictures you took? I am new here > and missed them :-) CPU card cage http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20CPU.jpg CPU Front Panel (front cover removed) http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Front%20Panel.jpg CPU (left) and tape drive http://www.siconic.com/computers/Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Mini-Computer.jpg This picture shows the grime and yuck that was inside the hard drive unit. A lot of the mess was the decayed sound-dampening foam lining the inside: http://www.siconic.com/computers/Inside%20Four%20Phase%20Systems%20Hard%20Drive .jpg This picture shows the rat's nest inside the Xerox 800 unit: http://www.siconic.com/computers/Xerox%20800%20Rat's%20Nest.jpg Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Mar 1 23:25:45 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: HP-UX librarian has been chosen Message-ID: <200103020527.f225Rh531638@grover.winsite.com> Hi, group. Steve Robertson has volunteered to be librarian. I'll be boxing the discs up this weekend and shipping them out, and I'm assuming he'll catalog 'em and post what he's got after he gets 'em (would be kinda hard for him to do it *before* he gets them.....) Thanks again to everyone who volunteered to help. Hopefully, this system will help the greatest number of you *nix-heads. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Mar 1 23:37:29 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: <004201c0a25f$83bbf520$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <200103020539.f225dU531719@grover.winsite.com> Several years ago I interviewed Forrest Mims III (one of the co- founders of MITS, and also the author of piles of Radio Shack project books, many of which kept me out of trouble when I was growing up.....I now have several of them signed by Forrest, along with a couple of original schematics from one of those books) while I was really psyched up about starting a computer museum (before I found this list and realized that I was not only not alone in my desires, but also a complete rank amateur.....) He did, in fact, confirm that story. He also said that Len Feldman (then-editor of PE) really was the one who pushed Roberts into doing the article, and that Feldman was also one to quickly take credit for the entire Altair phenomenon. He also remembers Ed Roberts going to the airport to pick up Paul Allen in an old pickup truck..... He never really met Gates and Allen when they had an office at MITS. He said he was pretty much out of the daily operations of the company by that point. He only remembers stopping by a couple of times and hearing a lot of goofing off coming from one of the back rooms.... ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:16 PM > Subject: Re: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ > > > > On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > > > Another reference identifies Yates as a former Air Force officer > > > with > an > > > aeronautical engineering background: > > > http://ieee.cincinnati.fuse.net/reiman/03_1998.html > > > > An interesting thing about this article is that it says the first > > prototype of the Altair, the one that was allegedly lost in > > shipment, "arrived a year later". > > > > If true, this is interesting in a "Treasure Hunter" sort of way. > Assuming the machine did eventually show up, it may still exist. The > legend of its loss is familiar to most collectors, so if you could > prove that you had _that_ machine, it would presumably be worth a lot > more than your average Altair. If Ed Roberts verifies this story, it > would be interesting to know if Altair prototype #1 had any features > that would positively identify it. > > And no, I don't have any old Altairs I'm shortly putting up on eBay > : v ) > > Mark. > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Mar 1 23:41:51 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: References: <004201c0a25f$83bbf520$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <200103020543.f225hr531760@grover.winsite.com> Uh.....I just re-read the original posting that I replied to....never do email this late at night. I only confirmed the story of the loss of #1 on it's way to PE. I hadn't heard the second part where it actually did show up. When I spoke to Mims, we were discussing where it could possibly be right now....probably in a really dusty box under a pile in the back of an old USPS warehouse..... We return you now to your regularly-scheduled programming...... Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Mar 1 23:49:28 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: References: <04df01c0a0ee$ae2e3ba0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <200103020551.f225pQo31838@grover.winsite.com> Damn. That's it. I'm definitely going to bed now. I know better than to try and be intelligent at this hour, yet I went ahead and tried anyway. Len Feldman? Where the hell did THAT come from? He's the guy from Stereo Review....... I meant Les Solomon. I give up. Time for a small bowl of Phish Food and my jammies. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Mar 2 01:08:20 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local>; from jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:26:38AM +0200 References: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> Message-ID: <20010302090820.A686@sd160.local> On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 09:26:38AM +0200, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > So, now my plan is to use isoprophyl alcohol but I'd like to be sure > before I do any damage. > Thanks to everyone who replied! So now I'm off to get some isoprophyl alcohol and some good swabs. I'll be on lookout for "trike":) Thanks for the tips! -- jht From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Mar 2 01:11:11 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010301102547.25f7a8b2@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:25:47AM -0500 References: <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> <3.0.1.16.20010301102547.25f7a8b2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20010302091110.B686@sd160.local> On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:25:47AM -0500, Joe wrote: > I have a cleaning kit for the HP 9144/9145 it uses what appears to be > isopropyl alcohol. I haven't used it in a while so I don't remember if > it's marked or not but that's what it appeared to be. > > Also the 9144/9145s are subject to the same feed roller rot that the > other HPs are so check your rollers and see if they've gotten mushy and/or > sticky. If they have then cleaning is not going to help. > The feed roller rot is a new thing to me, I'll check them out. Is there anything one can do if that's the case ? I know I've opened my 9144 a few times but I don't have a mental image of it right now. Sandpaper ? -- jht From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Mar 2 02:23:05 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3A9F5869.1E376D82@softstar.it> Great report and pictures. When you have time please tell something about the technology (TTL, bit slice or whatever) > Forward Air is a great company to use for shipping large loads of old > computers. I used them before on a haul of Xerox 6085 "Daybreaks" from Lucky guy! Wish I could find some D-machines or even some Lisp machine :-) e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 04:37:12 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <000a01c0a2cf$cdfe50e0$b99e72d1@main> Message-ID: <3A9F77D8.F66794D2@internet1.net> Bill, I ruined 3 keyboards before I new all the magic smoke was escaping :-) I felt real dumb! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Bill Dawson wrote: > I have a keyboard for one of these, but it doesn't work (anymore). I found > out the hard way about 5 years ago that when you plug these into a regular > XT, all the magic smoke escapes from the keyboard. If anyone is interested, > I still have it (TI LOW PROFILE KEYBOARD P/N 2230528-0001). It's complete > except for the missing smoke and free for the cost of shipping also. > > Bill > > Washington, PA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 04:47:53 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3A9F7A59.9C5C766C@internet1.net> Wow, I don't think I would be up to the task of restoring something like that! Everything is covered with grime, and everything looks to need attention. I wouldn't fit in my bathtub either..... that is where a lot of my stuff gets cleaned :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 04:52:52 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <000a01c0a2cf$cdfe50e0$b99e72d1@main> <3A9F77D8.F66794D2@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3A9F7B84.8346AF3C@internet1.net> Oops, what I meant was I ruined 3 keyboard doing the opposite. I was trying to use non-TI keyboards in the TI, and blew them all :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Bill, > > I ruined 3 keyboards before I new all the magic smoke was escaping :-) > I felt real dumb! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Bill Dawson wrote: > > I have a keyboard for one of these, but it doesn't work (anymore). I found > > out the hard way about 5 years ago that when you plug these into a regular > > XT, all the magic smoke escapes from the keyboard. If anyone is interested, > > I still have it (TI LOW PROFILE KEYBOARD P/N 2230528-0001). It's complete > > except for the missing smoke and free for the cost of shipping also. > > > > Bill > > > > Washington, PA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 2 05:19:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <3A9F7A59.9C5C766C@internet1.net> References: Message-ID: >Wow, I don't think I would be up to the task of restoring something like >that! Everything is covered with grime, and everything looks to need I was thinking it might be a great VCF exhibit as is, then next year as improved. From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Fri Mar 2 07:57:49 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" Message-ID: <004001c0a320$c4ae1d80$0264640a@mediaone.net> Hi gang, Anyone knows what that person is talking about? I suspect it might have been a file manager but please let me know if I'm wrong. Thanks Francois > Hi Francois, > > I had a friend of mine say he had something called a lusher(sp?) file > program on an old comodore computer he had. Any idea what this might have > been and what it did? > > Thanks, > > Kriss Davis > kpdavis@ilstu.edu > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 06:41:05 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ Message-ID: Hmm, if it was shipped USPS, there is a department that warehouses all of that unreturnable and unforwardable mail.. read about it in Smithsonian once.. they even had some guy's ashes on the shelf, and due to that article, the family who was related to him was able to contact the USPS and retrieve his remains.. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Mar 2 06:55:33 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:52 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <008901c0a2a5$efc45960$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010302075533.006e2f50@obregon.multi.net.co> At 09:48 AM 3/2/01 +1030, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 6:18 AM >Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) > >(From one lover of big iron to another) > >> The rescue of a very obscure 70s era mini-computer was accomplished >last >> Thursday and Friday. It had been sitting in a storage shed on a >forsaken >> piece of property in Tampa, Florida, for at least 15 years, quite >possibly >> 20 > >Nice catch Sellam. Well planned and executed operation. >Looks a bit ratty (sorry, couldn't resist) but I've seen worse looking >stuff still clean up pretty well. >Looks like there's a very good chance it's restorable to functioning >condition. > >Geoff Roberts Hmmm... looks like it might be a good idea to carry some nose and mouth protectors in the field trip toolbox... rodents are vectors for so many diseases... hantavirus comes to mind. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From alex at linuxhacker.org Fri Mar 2 07:26:25 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Websites listing Apollo's for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >and can't get to them easily to find out (they're in a friend's mother's > >garage). I'll take any reasonable offer, but I'd rather the buyer collects > I don't want any more Apollo's, but I would like to know how you talk a > friends mother into letting you store computer stuff in her garage. ;) Get the friend to do the talking for you :) It's a large double garage, and we almost filled it with two lorry loads of (mainly) junk. The only problem is that it's about an hour's drive away so I can't just pop over there... -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 07:30:52 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: HP-UX librarian has been chosen Message-ID: I'll catalog everything and figure out a fair distribution scheme as soon as I receive the package. Any thoughts from the group about the legality of copying the CDs? The 10.X stuff was available for free from HP as Y2K updates and I see install packages being sold on Ebay all the time. Thanks again Paul, Steve Robertson >From: "Paul Braun" >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: HP-UX librarian has been chosen >Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:25:45 -0600 > >Hi, group. > >Steve Robertson has volunteered to be librarian. I'll be boxing the >discs up this weekend and shipping them out, and I'm assuming >he'll catalog 'em and post what he's got after he gets 'em (would be >kinda hard for him to do it *before* he gets them.....) > >Thanks again to everyone who volunteered to help. Hopefully, this >system will help the greatest number of you *nix-heads. > > > > > > >Paul Braun WD9GCO >Cygnus Productions >nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > >"A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a >bunch of bricks tied to its head." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 2 07:55:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" In-Reply-To: <004001c0a320$c4ae1d80$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > Anyone knows what that person is talking about? > I suspect it might have been a file manager but please let me know if I'm > wrong. > Thanks > Francois > > > Hi Francois, > > > > I had a friend of mine say he had something called a lusher(sp?) file > > program on an old comodore computer he had. Any idea what this might have > > been and what it did? He was most likely talking about the Luscher Profile (I think I spelled that right), which was some sort of psychological profiling software from the 80s. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 2 07:56:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010302075533.006e2f50@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > >Nice catch Sellam. Well planned and executed operation. > >Looks a bit ratty (sorry, couldn't resist) but I've seen worse looking > >stuff still clean up pretty well. > >Looks like there's a very good chance it's restorable to functioning > >condition. > > > >Geoff Roberts > > Hmmm... looks like it might be a good idea to carry > some nose and mouth protectors in the field trip toolbox... > rodents are vectors for so many diseases... hantavirus > comes to mind. It did cross my mind, but Hantavirus is only prevalent in the southwest of the U.S. (Texas, New Mexico...) Louis didn't understand why I didn't want to touch any of the stuff with my bare hands. He just dove right into it. He's braver than I :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ip500 at home.com Fri Mar 2 09:41:06 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3A9FBF12.97675436@home.com> You're a wise man Sellam, The brown recluse spider just loves places like that. An aquaintance was bitten by one several years ago. The wound spread to about a 3" diameter circle of putrifying flesh that had to be surgically removed. Very nasty little buggers indeed! Craig Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Carlos Murillo wrote: > > > >Nice catch Sellam. Well planned and executed operation. > > >Looks a bit ratty (sorry, couldn't resist) but I've seen worse looking > > >stuff still clean up pretty well. > > >Looks like there's a very good chance it's restorable to functioning > > >condition. > > > > > >Geoff Roberts > > > > Hmmm... looks like it might be a good idea to carry > > some nose and mouth protectors in the field trip toolbox... > > rodents are vectors for so many diseases... hantavirus > > comes to mind. > > It did cross my mind, but Hantavirus is only prevalent in the southwest of > the U.S. (Texas, New Mexico...) > > Louis didn't understand why I didn't want to touch any of the stuff with > my bare hands. He just dove right into it. He's braver than I :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Fri Mar 2 15:47:25 2001 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Tatung Einstein disks Message-ID: <3A9FC090.18523.DAA524@localhost> > A friend of mine has a working Einstein and thinks he has Xtaldos > and possibly another OS (pseudo-CP/M?) for a 40-column system. > There was apparently a genuine CP/M version for an 80-column > machine, but he doesn't have the 80-column add-on, nor real CP/M. > Unfortunately, he's about to go on holiday, so it will be at least a > couple of weeks before he can look for disks, but I've saved your > mail, and will remind him. Thanks Pete. My Einstein came with the 80 column add-on so now I've got something else to find :-) i.e. the genuine CP/M as well as XtalDos. After changing a few jumpers in the 80 column add-on, the Einstein now works with the Phillips mono monitor I use with my BBC Master. Doug From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Fri Mar 2 10:46:50 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c0a338$61c23ef0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> > ...the Luscher Profile (I think I spelled that right), > which was some sort of psychological profiling software > from the 80s... Possible hit. Think my parents had on book on this in the 70's. Possibly based on a persons reactions to various colors. The books 'multimedia' may have been just color flash cards (the guts were in the book, which I did not read). Yes, you get Beaucoup hits on Yahoo with "+Luscher+Color". John A. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Mar 2 11:06:41 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: 8080 Programs to be posted Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879674@MAIL10> Hello, all: If anyone's interested, I've been working on producing compilable source for some printed 8080-based programs. I have to do some final proof reading, but I will post shortly to my Web site the source for Lawrence Livermore BASIC (from an early DDJ issue) and the Amsat-Golem monitor program (from an early BYTE magazine). Enjoy. Rich From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 11:14:35 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) Message-ID: Blech, brown recluses! I have a computer that was a home for them... My uncle lives in Colorado Springs, and his old house had a seperate, free-standing shed/garage type of thing (much too big for a shed really). Anyway, that's where he kept his tractor, camper, etc. And his garage was infested with the things... And back in the far corner was my Honeywell DPS-6/54, and the previous owner had thoughtfully coiled up the cables in the bottom of the cabinet, creating a nice hiding space.. Needless to say, my uncle and I were wearing thick gloves and long shirts when we put it in the truck.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 2 11:17:14 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" In-Reply-To: <001201c0a338$61c23ef0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: Although not totally related to the Luscher Mind Profile (hynotherpay tool I believe, for personality and colors) there's a Commode-ore page full of downloads for real and emulated Commodore machine at: http://members.aol.com/fyarra001/copypro/copiers.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 10:47 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Cc: John at Home (E-mail) Subject: RE: Fw: "lusher file?" > ...the Luscher Profile (I think I spelled that right), > which was some sort of psychological profiling software > from the 80s... Possible hit. Think my parents had on book on this in the 70's. Possibly based on a persons reactions to various colors. The books 'multimedia' may have been just color flash cards (the guts were in the book, which I did not read). Yes, you get Beaucoup hits on Yahoo with "+Luscher+Color". John A. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 2 11:09:29 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <20010302034709.YUOF25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <000501c0a2ca$dd9e3380$b99e72d1@main> <3.0.1.16.20010301221713.24570b08@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010302120929.23efa702@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:46 PM 3/1/01 +0000, Wizard wrote: > >Joe, > >I used a phoneix bios cmos setup program for the old 286 clones, >works 100% Yes, did that on XT/286. Hint: That bios DOES have >1.44MB support. > >Cheers, > >Wizard I've already tried booting it from a floppy disk, no go. The problem with this system is that you can't even boot from a floppy disk until the BIOS is set. You might be able to boot if it had a 1.2Mb floppy drive but this one has two 360k drives. I know the later BIOS had support for 1.44 drives but I haven't checked the version on this one yet. This machine will be available for adoption as soon as I get some software off of it. It's a IBM model 5162 XT/286 with 640k of RAM, two HH IBM 360K floppy drives and a type 2 hard drive. It used to be goverment property and has a label that says that it was a Stag Programming Test Station. Joe > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 2 11:17:32 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010302091110.B686@sd160.local> References: <3.0.1.16.20010301102547.25f7a8b2@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20010301092637.B712@sd160.local> <3.0.1.16.20010301102547.25f7a8b2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010302121732.23ef4786@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:11 AM 3/2/01 +0200, you wrote: >On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 10:25:47AM -0500, Joe wrote: >> I have a cleaning kit for the HP 9144/9145 it uses what appears to be >> isopropyl alcohol. I haven't used it in a while so I don't remember if >> it's marked or not but that's what it appeared to be. >> >> Also the 9144/9145s are subject to the same feed roller rot that the >> other HPs are so check your rollers and see if they've gotten mushy and/or >> sticky. If they have then cleaning is not going to help. >> > >The feed roller rot is a new thing to me, I'll check them out. Is there >anything one can do if that's the case ? I know I've opened my 9144 a few >times but I don't have a mental image of it right now. Sandpaper ? >-- >jht The only thing you can do is to replace the rollers. However I have no idea where to find replacements. I doubt sandpaper will help, the rollers get soft all the way through. Fortunatly, it only seems to be a problem in about 20% of the 9144 that I've looked at. OTOH, it's a problem in about 95% of the HP 65s, 67s, 85s, etc. I suppose the difference may be due to the 9144/9145s being slightly newer. I just hope they don't all go bad eventually. Joe > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Mar 2 11:30:08 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" Message-ID: Commode-ore? Maybe its the flusher file then? Does the machine stall instead of crash? hehe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Fri Mar 2 11:28:48 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3A9F0FFF.EEAECD17@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Welcome! Well Chad, it varies a lot who has what in their collection. Personally, I have micro collection like you do. There's not that much space in my 1 br apartment, and micros are what I grew up with. To me, 80's micros are /real/ computers. I think your Model 80 is cool because this micro built like a tank and weighs a ton reminds me of what the IBM corporation is like. The way the insides are arranged is really Gothic. Edwin At 10:14 PM 3/1/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hello Everyone, > >I am not really sure what kinds or types of computers are represented >here. I have an Apple //e, an IBM Model 80 with Reply Powerboard, a >Unisys 486 server, an IBM XT, my main Pentium based system (socket7) and >various other PCs that need work. I sort of assume that many people >here have much larger computers and older computers than myself.... how >true is that? > >I am looking to thin my collection..... and and to it :-) I may be >getting a PDP11/53 ..... probably my first "real" computer by some >standards :-) >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 2 12:33:33 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Mar 2, 1 11:17:14 am" Message-ID: <200103021833.KAA11316@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Although not totally related to the Luscher Mind Profile (hynotherpay tool I > believe, for personality and colors) there's a Commode-ore page full of > downloads for real and emulated Commodore machine at: Naughty man. I'm giving Jack Tramiel's death squad your home address right now. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 2 13:05:21 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" In-Reply-To: <200103021833.KAA11316@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: for the Commode-ore crack or for letting the free software site out? I have 5 different Commies so it's not a real slam when I use the Commode part of Commodore. Please don't hurt me mister... -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:34 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Fw: "lusher file?" > Although not totally related to the Luscher Mind Profile (hynotherpay tool I > believe, for personality and colors) there's a Commode-ore page full of > downloads for real and emulated Commodore machine at: Naughty man. I'm giving Jack Tramiel's death squad your home address right now. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 2 12:42:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: HP-UX librarian has been chosen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I'll catalog everything and figure out a fair distribution scheme as soon as >I receive the package. > >Any thoughts from the group about the legality of copying the CDs? > >The 10.X stuff was available for free from HP as Y2K updates and I see >install packages being sold on Ebay all the time. I don't think selling copies on eBay is a good idea, but distribution within a small semiprivate group should be no problem. Perhaps all who are interested should send you a private off list email, and further details be handled by private email? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 2 12:35:15 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hmm, if it was shipped USPS, there is a department that warehouses all of >that unreturnable and unforwardable mail.. read about it in Smithsonian >once.. they even had some guy's ashes on the shelf, and due to that article, >the family who was related to him was able to contact the USPS and retrieve >his remains.. OTOH twice a year the regional dead letter places have an auction. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 12:53:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Tatung Einstein disks In-Reply-To: <3A9FC090.18523.DAA524@localhost> from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Mar 2, 1 03:47:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1067 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010302/bed860c7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 13:02:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010302121732.23ef4786@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 2, 1 12:17:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2099 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010302/1d465cec/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 12:39:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3A9F0FFF.EEAECD17@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 1, 1 10:14:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1005 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010302/157229cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 12:42:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: <200103020539.f225dU531719@grover.winsite.com> from "Paul Braun" at Mar 1, 1 11:37:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 625 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010302/d4c53e4a/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 14:59:31 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> Hello Edwin! "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > > Welcome! > Well Chad, it varies a lot who has what in their collection. > Personally, I have micro collection like you do. There's not that much > space in my 1 br apartment, and micros are what I grew up with. To me, 80's > micros are /real/ computers. I have a 2 bedroom apt, that is way too full with computer "junk". That is one of the reasons I want to..... what's a good word, maybe refine?, my collocation. > I think your Model 80 is cool because this micro built like a tank and > weighs a ton reminds me of what the IBM corporation is like. The way the > insides are arranged is really Gothic. This has always been a mystery to me, since I bought mine. Everyone always talks about how heavy, and "built like a tank" these computers are. I don't think mine is that heavy, maybe because I don't have dual full height drives? I was expecting the case to be made from think steel, but mine is some sort of plastic (composite?). That said, it is currently one of my favorite computers :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 2 12:47:15 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010302134715.348f6d60@mailhost.intellistar.net> The story that I heard (Stan Veit's book?) was that it was shipped via REA (Railway Express Agancy?) and was in transit when the REA employees went on strike. Apparently the strike was the death knell of REA so the package was never delivered. Also when REA went under, everything was dumped instead of being shipped to a dead letter office. My guess is that THE original Altair ended up in a scrap yard somewhere between New Mexico and NYC. Joe At 05:41 AM 3/2/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hmm, if it was shipped USPS, there is a department that warehouses all of >that unreturnable and unforwardable mail.. read about it in Smithsonian >once.. they even had some guy's ashes on the shelf, and due to that article, >the family who was related to him was able to contact the USPS and retrieve >his remains.. >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 15:05:44 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <3AA00B28.97E49120@internet1.net> Hello Tony! Tony Duell wrote: > I believe the only requirement is that the computer is more than 10 years > old. It can be electronic, mechanical, analogue, digital, micro, mini, > mainframe, workstation.... Oh I read the requirements already, I just want to get a feel for what people actually have :-) > Some of us do, others don't. I like 1970's minicomputers and early > workstations (PERQs, D-machines, etc). Mainly because I am a hardware > hacker and like to be able to clip a logic analyser onto the ALU outputs. > Other people here have more 'normal' interests and stick to micros :-) Wow, "micros" :-) It will be fun being on a list that knows and uses that word, along with the other classifications :-) Usually, "computer" is sufficient on the lists I participate in! > > FWIW, there are some very knowledgeable Apple ][ hackers here. And many > of us have at least one original IBM PC/XT/AT machine. I admit, I don't really use my Apple //e for much. Occasionally, I power it up to play a game of Moon Patrol :-) I used to program in Jr. High, and High School, but have forgotten most that I learned, unfortunately. Never got into ProDOS, either. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 15:09:48 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3AA00C1C.A9941F94@internet1.net> Here in Michigan, we are fortunate, not to have very many. In fact, I hadn't even heard of them until I lived in Missouri for awhile. I have since learned that we have a few in Michigan, but they normally stay south of us, do to the cold. I wouldn't even really know what one looks like. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Will Jennings wrote: > > Blech, brown recluses! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 2 16:19:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: References: <200103020539.f225dU531719@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010302171920.096fe8ae@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tony, Neat find! Yes, that's the same MITS. They got their start selling kits ofor clocks and calculators and the like. A friend of mine has one of their clocks. I've been trying to talk him out of it but no such luck! Joe At 06:42 PM 3/2/01 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Several years ago I interviewed Forrest Mims III (one of the co- >> founders of MITS, and also the author of piles of Radio Shack >> project books, many of which kept me out of trouble when I was > >Changing the subject somewhat... > >I was in the local public library today, and on the 'for sale' shelf I >found a book entitled something like 'Electronic clocks and watches'. It >was published in 1975. I quickly grabbed it for 20p (say 30 cents...) > >It contains _schematics_ of many early-ish digital clock kits from >companies like Heathkit and (which is why I mention it) MITS. I assume >this is the same MITS. > >-tony > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 2 15:53:37 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Fw: "lusher file?" In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Mar 2, 1 01:05:21 pm" Message-ID: <200103022153.NAA29694@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > for the Commode-ore crack or for letting the free software site out? I have > 5 different Commies so it's not a real slam when I use the Commode part of > Commodore. > > Please don't hurt me mister... Too late, stand by for Jack Attack! :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The Army needs leaders the way a foot needs a big toe. -- Bill Murray ------ From rdd at smart.net Fri Mar 2 16:17:00 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <3AA00C1C.A9941F94@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Here in Michigan, we are fortunate, not to have very many. In fact, I Spiders, and particular baby spiders or egg sacs which we may not notice, are something that we all need to be more aware of as computer collectors, particularly when getting computer equipment shipped to us. It's not much fun to suddenly find one's basement or garage infested with spiders, particularlyt he kind the bite or have webs so strong that when one pulls circuit boards apart one hears a ripping sound from the spider webbing coming apart. Not sure what kind I've got that are a bit of a nuisance; they seem to like heat, and will have stringy webs with lots of baby sipders on them around lit lightbulbs and the furnace... the webs are either just a single line hanging down from a rafter to something else, or a bunch iw thick webbing in a small area with lots of little spiders in it; the occasionally seen bigger spiders that are found near the webbing are, including legs, about an inch or so in diameter, with a large, bulb-like, dark brown sack. I've had my ankles bitten through socks on occasion; the adults seem to like recessed areas, the insides of garage doors and basement walls. Just when I think the vacuum cleaner has gotten them all, there are more webs. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From louiss at gate.net Fri Mar 2 16:40:05 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <3AA00C1C.A9941F94@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200103022240.RAA28374@shasta.gate.net> OK already! As the native Tampan water-carrier on this expedition (well, native for 17 years, at least), I have to say you guys (including Sellam) are really geeks. What's a few rats, brown recluses or other bugs? We had a black widow raising a family in a garbage can, so we took care of her. We see a rattlesnake now and then. Yeah, and don't feed the alligators (particularly in the Upper Keys, don't feed the Crocodiles, they are real meanies). You mamby-pamby babies. And you say you want adventure? Ha, I say. Hanta virus? How about Ebola virus? How about an alien abduction? Yaaaaaaaaaeeeeeeeee....... Louis On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:09:48 -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: >Here in Michigan, we are fortunate, not to have very many. In fact, I >hadn't even heard of them until I lived in Missouri for awhile. I have >since learned that we have a few in Michigan, but they normally stay >south of us, do to the cold. I wouldn't even really know what one looks >like. > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Will Jennings wrote: >> >> Blech, brown recluses! > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 2 17:55:56 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: need info on Datel ERPOM64 Eprom burner Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010302185556.24df6f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> I found a small circuit board marked "Datel EPROM64 8/88". It has a ZIF socket on it and it appears to be part of an EPROM burner. One end of the board has a 24 position card edge connector socket. A quick net search showed that Datel built a lot EPROM burners that plugged into the Commie 64. Is anyone familar with this product? If so, what else is needed besides the card with the ZIF socket? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 2 17:57:07 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: EXOR-bus? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010302185707.26175cf4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Is there anyone out there that collects EXOR-bus stuff? I just lucked into a pile of Motorola Exor-bus cards. Joe From azog at azog.org Fri Mar 2 17:06:53 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Offering HP 200LX palmtop Message-ID: This is not necessarily off-topic, because the device is interesting enough to qualify, even tho it is less than 5 years old. I recently picked up an HP 200LX "palm-top". This is discontinued from HP, in favor of their PocketPC products, but the details can be had at http://www.hp.com/jornada/products/200/. In short, this is a palm-sized PC, with a slightly-less-than 8MHz 80186 processor, 2mb of RAM, and embedded DOS. It has your slew of familiar PIM type apps - calendar, contacts. It also has an embedded version of Quicken and cc:Mail. It has a PCMCIA controller, but I dunno what devices it supports. I tried a Lucent WaveLAN 803.11b Silver card in it, but, as I suspected, it did not work. According to HP docs, you can use flash-ram, modems, and other devices. I have the recharger, but it's fitted with alkaline batteries right now. You'd obviously need NiCad to use the recharger unit. Includes a fairly thick users guide. I'm offering it here first, just because I find it a "gee-whiz" type of device, if not exactly "classic". If no-one here is interested, I'll try to offer it on e-bay. It works, except I get error messages that the backup battery is low, even tho I replaced it. Perhaps something is wrong? I'll trade it for pretty much anything of interest (but I'd really like a VAX 750 :) so let me know please. Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 17:20:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3AA02AA6.4505C3FE@internet1.net> Hmm, I never really gave it much thought. It certainly is something to watch out for now that you mention it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Spiders, and particular baby spiders or egg sacs which we may not > notice, are something that we all need to be more aware of as computer > collectors, particularly when getting computer equipment shipped to > us. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 17:17:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA00B28.97E49120@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 2, 1 04:05:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1164 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010302/d80444f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 2 17:27:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: need info on Datel ERPOM64 Eprom burner In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010302185556.24df6f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 2, 1 06:55:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010302/032ed3a4/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 17:39:14 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: <200103022240.RAA28374@shasta.gate.net> Message-ID: <3AA02F22.10217C02@internet1.net> Louis, If I have my info correct, Brown Recluse are supposed to be much nastier than the Black Widow. The BW just has the name recognition. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Louis Schulman wrote: > > OK already! As the native Tampan water-carrier on this > expedition (well, native for 17 years, at least), I have to > say you guys (including Sellam) are really geeks. What's a > few rats, brown recluses or other bugs? We had a black > widow raising a family in a garbage can, so we took care of > her. We see a rattlesnake now and then. Yeah, and don't > feed the alligators (particularly in the Upper Keys, don't > feed the Crocodiles, they are real meanies). > > You mamby-pamby babies. And you say you want adventure? > Ha, I say. Hanta virus? How about Ebola virus? How about > an alien abduction? Yaaaaaaaaaeeeeeeeee....... > > Louis > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:09:48 -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > >Here in Michigan, we are fortunate, not to have very many. In fact, I > >hadn't even heard of them until I lived in Missouri for awhile. I have > >since learned that we have a few in Michigan, but they normally stay > >south of us, do to the cold. I wouldn't even really know what one looks > >like. > > > >Chad Fernandez > >Michigan, USA > > > >Will Jennings wrote: > >> > >> Blech, brown recluses! > > From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Mar 2 17:48:16 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Offering HP 200LX palmtop References: Message-ID: <200103022348.f22NmHu81528@mate.kjsl.com> "Billy D'Augustine" wrote: [200LX for trade] Y'know, there's a whole 'nother mailing list for these things. HPLX-L@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU. Details, archives, links are at . It has a Type II PCMCIA 2.0 slot, but given that it runs off two AA cells the supply of current is limited. There are some PCMCIA modems and Ethernet cards (Accton comes to mind) that are known to work within this limit. It's also got a serial port, and a built-in for-some-value-of-VT100 emulator in ROM. With the cable, it can be just the ticket for a portable terminal for the ObOnTopic classic computers that need a terminal. Yes, I carry one...one that's been beefed up with a double-speed clock and 32MB RAM disk. It's like having a fast IBM PC/XT in my pocket, only the disk is faster! -Frank McConnell From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 2 18:02:34 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Digital mouse puck goes to what? References: <20010302022905.JCID15476.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <001501c0a375$407f0060$0100a8c0@jack> i aint got nothing to offer but 5 bux for that fat mouse fred ----- Original > This mouse is for a Digital Equipment Corporation VAXSTATION. Not a bad From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 2 17:59:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <200103022240.RAA28374@shasta.gate.net> References: <200103022240.RAA28374@shasta.gate.net> Message-ID: >You mamby-pamby babies. And you say you want adventure? >Ha, I say. Hanta virus? How about Ebola virus? How about >an alien abduction? Yaaaaaaaaaeeeeeeeee....... Louis, there's nothing wrong with sharing tips on wild-life that might be encountered while cleaning the insides of a large cabinet and such. In fact, the brown recluse spider is one of the nastier varieties in the U.S. and as has already been mentioned, it's bite can cause serious damage. Add to that the fact that it lives up to it's name and you generally won't even know it was there until after you've been bitten and it's a good bit of information to pass on. Frankly, I'd rather take my chances with the rattle snake and as a native of Missouri, we have an abundance of both, as well as cotton mouths, cougars, scorpions, and plenty of other critters to make life interesting! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 2 13:50:58 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010302120929.23efa702@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <20010302034709.YUOF25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010303005140.LSGT2129.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:09:29 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Joe > Subject: RE: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > At 10:46 PM 3/1/01 +0000, Wizard wrote: > > > >Joe, > > > >I used a phoneix bios cmos setup program for the old 286 clones, > >works 100% Yes, did that on XT/286. Hint: That bios DOES have > >1.44MB support. Try again after reading my lastest info and suggestions. When CMOS is reset to defaults especially on oldies machines, it's usually 360K or 720K (9 sectors, tracks is s/w controlled). Try booting a 360K boot disk. Mine was loose XT/286 board and booted up with a regular dos 360K or 720K no problems. Oh heck, I even can hook up 1.44MB floppy drive and boot with a 720K boot disk. Done that on XT and old AT, XT/286 no less! The only exception is that most older machines from compaq, IBM ps/2 early PS/1, few oddballs like old toshibas needs special disk created. I'm certain this isn't the case for that AT, XT/286, AT, old 386 and rare early 486 clones. The oldie machines defaults to the minimum density while newer machines defaults to 1.44MB when cmos got whacked. (all Peecees in last 10 yr). Cheers, Wizard > > > >Cheers, > > > >Wizard From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 2 17:51:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Book on clocks (was Re: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I was in the local public library today, and on the 'for sale' shelf I > found a book entitled something like 'Electronic clocks and watches'. It > was published in 1975. I quickly grabbed it for 20p (say 30 cents...) Tony, could you please post the exact title and author of this book? I'd like to find a copy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From nerdware at laidbak.com Fri Mar 2 19:04:42 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010302171920.096fe8ae@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: <200103030106.f2316Z209170@grover.winsite.com> They also used to build telemetry for model rockets. I think that actually predates the calculator/clock business. They came up with the name "MITS" to siphon off some of the prestige from the school of the same initials, and then made up the words necessary to make it an acronym....I believe it was "Micro Instrumentation and Telemetry Something"....obviously, my brain is protesting because it wants more Phish Food and I haven't fed it yet..... > Tony, > > Neat find! Yes, that's the same MITS. They got their start selling > kits > ofor clocks and calculators and the like. A friend of mine has one of > their clocks. I've been trying to talk him out of it but no such luck! > > Joe > > At 06:42 PM 3/2/01 +0000, you wrote: > >> > >> Several years ago I interviewed Forrest Mims III (one of the co- > >> founders of MITS, and also the author of piles of Radio Shack > >> project books, many of which kept me out of trouble when I was > > > >Changing the subject somewhat... > > > >I was in the local public library today, and on the 'for sale' shelf > >I found a book entitled something like 'Electronic clocks and > >watches'. It was published in 1975. I quickly grabbed it for 20p (say > >30 cents...) > > > >It contains _schematics_ of many early-ish digital clock kits from > >companies like Heathkit and (which is why I mention it) MITS. I > >assume this is the same MITS. > > > >-tony > > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 2 17:56:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > there's nothing wrong with sharing tips on wild-life that > might be encountered while cleaning the insides of a large cabinet > and such. In fact, the brown recluse spider is one of the nastier > varieties in the U.S. and as has already been mentioned, it's bite > can cause serious damage. Add to that the fact that it lives up to > it's name and you generally won't even know it was there until after > you've been bitten and it's a good bit of information to pass on. > Frankly, I'd rather take my chances with the rattle snake and as a > native of Missouri, we have an abundance of both, as well as cotton > mouths, cougars, scorpions, and plenty of other critters to make life > interesting! Imagine finding a cougar crawling around inside an old computer! Better watch out for those suckers. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 19:07:11 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: <200103022240.RAA28374@shasta.gate.net> Message-ID: <3AA043BF.B76B2106@internet1.net> Oh my, there was even more down there than I knew!! I'm glad don't live in MO anymore. I feel safer in MI :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jeff Hellige wrote: > Louis, > > there's nothing wrong with sharing tips on wild-life that > might be encountered while cleaning the insides of a large cabinet > and such. In fact, the brown recluse spider is one of the nastier > varieties in the U.S. and as has already been mentioned, it's bite > can cause serious damage. Add to that the fact that it lives up to > it's name and you generally won't even know it was there until after > you've been bitten and it's a good bit of information to pass on. > Frankly, I'd rather take my chances with the rattle snake and as a > native of Missouri, we have an abundance of both, as well as cotton > mouths, cougars, scorpions, and plenty of other critters to make life > interesting! > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Fri Mar 2 19:31:28 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Duh, I was thinking of the model 60 with the steel case and the full height ESDI hard drives. It has a carrying handle at the top and a warning that it is over 45 kg. Edwin > >This has always been a mystery to me, since I bought mine. Everyone >always talks about how heavy, and "built like a tank" these computers >are. I don't think mine is that heavy, maybe because I don't have dual >full height drives? I was expecting the case to be made from think >steel, but mine is some sort of plastic (composite?). That said, it is >currently one of my favorite computers :-) > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 2 14:45:51 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> References: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010303014633.JJNJ741.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 17:31:28 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: "Edwin P. Groot" > Subject: Re: New here :-) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Duh, I was thinking of the model 60 with the steel case and the full > height ESDI hard drives. It has a carrying handle at the top and a warning > that it is over 45 kg. 60,65 SX,80 shares same case and 95 series are all towers and heavy. Even my 90 XP is heavy too for desktop case. Heck, both P70/P75 are heavy (appox 20lbs) and do have handle. Wizard w/ his small IBM collection. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 2 20:01:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Imagine finding a cougar crawling around inside an old computer! Better >watch out for those suckers. Sounds like as much fun as finding a bunch of scorpions crawling around one's bathroom in the middle of the night! Might be possible if the cat somehow got into one of the old mainframe computer rooms? Smaller cats have been known to enjoy the warmth of monitors and such, so who knows! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 2 20:28:25 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:53 2005 Subject: New here :-) Message-ID: In a message dated 3/2/01 8:18:54 PM Central Standard Time, jpero@sympatico.ca writes: << > From: "Edwin P. Groot" > Subject: Re: New here :-) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Duh, I was thinking of the model 60 with the steel case and the full > height ESDI hard drives. It has a carrying handle at the top and a warning > that it is over 45 kg. 60,65 SX,80 shares same case and 95 series are all towers and heavy. Even my 90 XP is heavy too for desktop case. Heck, both P70/P75 are heavy (appox 20lbs) and do have handle. Wizard w/ his small IBM collection. >> even the small 9556 is very heavy, due to its all metal construction including the wrap around case. Even so, a 9595 is very heavy. I ebayed one with a FH SCSI drive and the guy paid shipping for it from one coast to the other! david, with a *big* IBM collection. DB Young Team OS/2 visit the computer collection, and hot rod pinto at: http://www.nothingtodo.org From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 20:46:56 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3AA05B20.D3B6D56A@internet1.net> Edwin, Actaully the 60 is the same case. I bought one for parts. I found it at Goodwill. It had been outside for awhile somewhere. It was nasty inside and out...... course it got cleaned off on the way home, because it was started to storm :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > > Duh, I was thinking of the model 60 with the steel case and the full > height ESDI hard drives. It has a carrying handle at the top and a warning > that it is over 45 kg. > > Edwin From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 2 20:49:27 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3AA05BB7.54DE0A2@internet1.net> 18+KG 40+lbs :-) 45+kg would fall through the floor :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > > Duh, I was thinking of the model 60 with the steel case and the full > height ESDI hard drives. It has a carrying handle at the top and a warning > that it is over 45 kg. > > Edwin From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Mar 2 21:30:42 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: ID a keyboard please ? Message-ID: <3AA01F12.29048.61C58B2@localhost> I usually pick up any old uncommon keyboard that I see. I recently acquired one that has no Logo or company name on it. Opening it up gives some #s and the name Handaman on the PCB. The connector is a right-angle 5pin DIN. It has a plastic silver-gray case and a metal bottom-plate It is qwerty with grey and black keys. There is a reset button on the upper-left side. There's a row of 5 function keys on the left labelled PF1 to PF10. On either side of the space key are LOCK on left side and GRAPH on right side. On the left side of the qwerty are ESC, a tab-key,CTRL, and SHIFT. It has the >< keys between the l-shift and Z.and double periods and commas where those usually are. Some others are also differently placed- INS/DEL are one key. It has a numeric keypad with a RED break key and a double 0 next to the regularly placed 0. Anyone recognize this beast ? thanks larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Mar 2 21:30:42 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AA01F12.3586.61C5884@localhost> > Hello Edwin! > > "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > > > > Welcome! > > Well Chad, it varies a lot who has what in their collection. > > Personally, I have micro collection like you do. There's not that > > much space in my 1 br apartment, and micros are what I grew up with. > > To me, 80's micros are /real/ computers. > > I have a 2 bedroom apt, that is way too full with computer "junk". > That is one of the reasons I want to..... what's a good word, maybe > refine?, my collocation. > > > I think your Model 80 is cool because this micro built like a > > tank and > > weighs a ton reminds me of what the IBM corporation is like. The way > > the insides are arranged is really Gothic. > > This has always been a mystery to me, since I bought mine. Everyone > always talks about how heavy, and "built like a tank" these computers > are. I don't think mine is that heavy, maybe because I don't have > dual full height drives? I was expecting the case to be made from > think steel, but mine is some sort of plastic (composite?). That > said, it is currently one of my favorite computers :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > Better check that model number again. The 386 8580's (and the less expensive 286 8560 look-a-like) are heavy-guage steel full- tower boxes with pull-out metal floor stand and a steel fold-up handle which must have been put on for weight-lifting exercise, since no normal strength person would carry it more than 20 yards without resting. Most 80s also came with 2 large ESDI HDs which must weigh between 10-15lbs. each and a 1/2 ht. 14.4 FDD. I have 2 of them and a 60 among my IBM collection. Hmm. In walking around clunking my IBMs, only my 8557 and 8590 came up non-metal. Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were metal cased. I suspect you have an 8590 desktop which is a nice MCA machine with a SCSI bus. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From univac at earthlink.net Fri Mar 2 21:51:45 2001 From: univac at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Looking for Query/36 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I checked the System/36, and it has RPG II installed, but thanks anyway. From jss at ou.edu Fri Mar 2 22:03:51 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA05B20.D3B6D56A@internet1.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3AA05B20.D3B6D56A@internet1.net> Message-ID: <983592231.3aa06d27c748f@email.ou.edu> I'm new here too. My main interests in classic computers are older (1970s) PDP11s and associated hardware. A list of my current collection follows, delimited by brackets: []. I'm working on it, though. I actually don't want to start a big collection per se; I want only to get one or two machines for intellectual exploration. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Mar 2 22:08:32 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Attention: KS10 owners Message-ID: Would the people on this list that are involved with the DEC KS10s I have stored in my shop please contact me off the list - I may need to move them out within a month or two. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 2 21:45:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: ID a keyboard please ? In-Reply-To: <3AA01F12.29048.61C58B2@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > It has a plastic silver-gray case and a metal bottom-plate It is > qwerty with grey and black keys. There is a reset button on the > upper-left side. There's a row of 5 function keys on the left labelled > PF1 to PF10. On either side of the space key are LOCK on left > side and GRAPH on right side. On the left side of the qwerty are > ESC, a tab-key,CTRL, and SHIFT. It has the >< keys between the > l-shift and Z.and double periods and commas where those usually > are. > Some others are also differently placed- INS/DEL are one key. It > has a numeric keypad with a RED break key and a double 0 next > to the regularly placed 0. Sounds like the keyboard to one of our favorite computers on this list, the Sanyo MBC-550 series :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Fri Mar 2 23:44:45 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On 03-Mar-2001 Edwin P. Groot wrote: > > Duh, I was thinking of the model 60 with the steel case and the > full height ESDI hard drives. It has a carrying handle at the top and a > warning that it is over 45 kg. Isn't that the model 80? The one with the !warning about it's weight. BTW, I have an SLDC MCA card for one of these http://pied.nu/fotos-8/model-80-SDLC.jpg -Philip From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Fri Mar 2 23:48:10 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA01F12.3586.61C5884@localhost> Message-ID: On 03-Mar-2001 Lawrence Walker wrote: > Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were metal cased. PCjr had a metal case? Why do I remember them being plastic w/ spray-on metal shield? I took ours apart very often, for kicks. But then, that was 15 years ago. Memory. going. -Philip From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Mar 3 00:29:02 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ In-Reply-To: Re: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+ (Paul Braun) References: <200103030106.f2316Z209170@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <15008.36654.935863.646044@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 2, Paul Braun wrote: > They came up with the name "MITS" to siphon off some of the > prestige from the school of the same initials, and then made up the > words necessary to make it an acronym....I believe it was "Micro > Instrumentation and Telemetry Something"....obviously, my brain is > protesting because it wants more Phish Food and I haven't fed it > yet..... It was Micro Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems. Forrest M. Mims was quite the writer...I grew up reading his books. And who could forget that his wife's name is...MINNIE! Yes folks, Minnie Mims. Stop laughing now. ;) -Dave McGuire From spc at conman.org Sat Mar 3 00:59:25 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: from "gwynp@artware.qc.ca" at Mar 03, 2001 12:48:10 AM Message-ID: <200103030659.BAA05042@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great gwynp@artware.qc.ca once stated: > > > On 03-Mar-2001 Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were metal cased. > > PCjr had a metal case? Why do I remember them being plastic w/ spray-on > metal shield? I took ours apart very often, for kicks. But then, that was > 15 years ago. Memory. going. The PCjr has a plastic case. I still have one. In fact, in order to put the monitor on top, I had to tape aluminum foil on the inside top cover to shield it (at least, that's what I was told to do by my friend's father who worked at IBM). -spc (It still works. And it still has the aluminum foil I taped there in 1987 ... ) From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 3 01:38:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Digital mouse puck goes to what? In-Reply-To: <20010302022905.JCID15476.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <376.462T700T5184309optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >This mouse is for a Digital Equipment Corporation VAXSTATION. Not a bad >mouse but wierd because it is round. It is easy to lose your place with a >round mouse.... It also works with DECstations. Can't say I'm crazy about them, though. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "Wer nichts zu sagen hat, sagt es auf Englisch." (-Walter Kr?mer, bez?gl. Anglizismen.) From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 3 03:49:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1233.462T250T6494215optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>Imagine finding a cougar crawling around inside an old computer! Better >>watch out for those suckers. > Sounds like as much fun as finding a bunch of scorpions >crawling around one's bathroom in the middle of the night! Might be >possible if the cat somehow got into one of the old mainframe >computer rooms? Smaller cats have been known to enjoy the warmth >of monitors and such, so who knows! Hm, that reminds me of one of the old classics on the early web. Tere was a student in New Zeeland whose cat would stay on top of his modem, which was warm and cosy. He also had some sort of permanent connection to his university, so he set up a web server on his Amiga which had an ARexx script which would accept forms input and talk it back with voice synthesis through the speaker, so that people might keep his cat company while he was away. I still have the (presumably broken) link on my '95 vintage homepage. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 3 04:57:05 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <3AA01F12.3586.61C5884@localhost> Message-ID: <3AA0CE01.DEBB04A5@internet1.net> It's an 8580-161..... I've never laid eyes on a 90 in person. The 60 I bought for parts had the plastic case as well. Maybe they made two versions of the cases? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lawrence Walker wrote: > Better check that model number again. The 386 8580's (and the > less expensive 286 8560 look-a-like) are heavy-guage steel full- > tower boxes with pull-out metal floor stand and a steel fold-up > handle which must have been put on for weight-lifting exercise, > since no normal strength person would carry it more than 20 yards > without resting. Most 80s also came with 2 large ESDI HDs which > must weigh between 10-15lbs. each and a 1/2 ht. 14.4 FDD. > I have 2 of them and a 60 among my IBM collection. > Hmm. In walking around clunking my IBMs, only my 8557 and > 8590 came up non-metal. Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were > metal cased. I suspect you have an 8590 desktop which is a nice > MCA machine with a SCSI bus. > > ciao larry > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 3 04:39:19 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: What those garage sales In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010302185556.24df6f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I met a guy today that sold half a dozen Altairs on ebay. He was looking through the recycler and found an ad for a "garage full of electronics and test equipment" $50. He said he hauled out 3 12 foot flatbeds of stuff including the 6 Altairs, mostly to be scrapped. Now the good point about this is this person is MUCH more likely to look over stuff before scrapping it for gold or aluminum. He sure had some funky looking boards with him today, but rust etc. and total lack of time or I would I talked him out of a couple for curiousity sake. Boards filled with pin arrays for a 2.5" square circuit board with a two row female connector, and half a dozen IBM square silver chips (I should have written it down, but 2n0xx where xx was maybe 17). Anyway, watch those garage sale ads. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 3 04:45:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: <3AA02F22.10217C02@internet1.net> References: <200103022240.RAA28374@shasta.gate.net> Message-ID: >If I have my info correct, Brown Recluse are supposed to be much nastier >than the Black Widow. The BW just has the name recognition. Most of the time a Black Widow doesn't bite a person, Most of the time a Brown Recluse does. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 3 04:27:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: References: <3AA00C1C.A9941F94@internet1.net> Message-ID: We used to have a few nice spiders around the house, but both of our cats have a taste for them, or anything else that moves. Speedy Pretzel has even managed to clear up the remaining spiders near curtain rods etc. (The 5 foot leap she makes from the headboard of our bed to the curtain rods is something to see). Mice and rats I find a LOT more offensive (cats don't get to go in the garage). Nothing like a rats nest to stink up a place, except for a rats nest with a dead rat in it. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Mar 3 06:49:46 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Attention: KS10 owners In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01030307504400.00752@portaleo> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001, William Donzelli wrote: > Would the people on this list that are involved with the DEC KS10s I have > stored in my shop please contact me off the list - I may need to move > them out within a month or two. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org. I would be very interested in one. How close to NY are you Brian. From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Mar 3 12:34:11 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA0CE01.DEBB04A5@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AA0F2D3.12466.3E785D@localhost> That set me scurrying for my Mueller. Both my 80s are 111 models. Mueller informs me that the 80s all weigh 45.3 lbs and the 60 weighs 47 lbs. He also intimates that the 161 has SCSI HDDs. My first box, which I had to lug 2 blocks to get a cab, still makes me think more like 100 lbs. Since then I've been able to scratch parts of my back I never could before. If you're sure the case is actually plastic and more so that of the 2 model 60s there was also a plastic cased one, this is something the MCA Mafia MUST learn about. Possibly a european model produced to make North-Americans be perceived as weak and effete. (Hee-Hee, titter-titter, "can't lift it".) BTW you aren't a wrestler or weight-lifter by any chance are you ? > It's an 8580-161..... I've never laid eyes on a 90 in person. The 60 > I bought for parts had the plastic case as well. Maybe they made two > versions of the cases? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Better check that model number again. The 386 8580's (and the > > less expensive 286 8560 look-a-like) are heavy-guage steel full- > > tower boxes with pull-out metal floor stand and a steel fold-up > > handle which must have been put on for weight-lifting exercise, > > since no normal strength person would carry it more than 20 yards > > without resting. Most 80s also came with 2 large ESDI HDs which must > > weigh between 10-15lbs. each and a 1/2 ht. 14.4 FDD. > > I have 2 of them and a 60 among my IBM collection. > > Hmm. In walking around clunking my IBMs, only my 8557 and > > 8590 came up non-metal. Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were > > metal cased. I suspect you have an 8590 desktop which is a nice MCA > > machine with a SCSI bus. > > > > ciao larry > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@look.ca > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Mar 3 12:34:11 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <200103030659.BAA05042@conman.org> References: from "gwynp@artware.qc.ca" at Mar 03, 2001 12:48:10 AM Message-ID: <3AA0F2D3.3775.3E788A@localhost> > It was thus said that the Great gwynp@artware.qc.ca once stated: > > > > > > On 03-Mar-2001 Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were metal cased. > > > > PCjr had a metal case? Why do I remember them being plastic w/ > > spray-on metal shield? I took ours apart very often, for kicks. > > But then, that was 15 years ago. Memory. going. > > The PCjr has a plastic case. I still have one. In fact, in order > to put > the monitor on top, I had to tape aluminum foil on the inside top > cover to shield it (at least, that's what I was told to do by my > friend's father who worked at IBM). > > -spc (It still works. And it still has the aluminum foil I taped > there in > 1987 ... ) > OOPS !! My mistake. I checked again, this time removing the top of the pile. That's what I had originally thought since it was a lo- cost box(for IBM) so I thunked it again to make sure, but it had a decidedly metallic "Clack" as I went about a late-nite thunking of the various IBMs. Maybe it was just determined not to give a non- IBM plastic"click" and embarass it's other IBM brothers. BTW. Does anyone have an extra power supply for jr. Will pay or trade. I've never powered it up and it still had the inserts in the disk drives. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 3 12:33:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <20010303005140.LSGT2129.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Mar 2, 1 07:50:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 751 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010303/af711a20/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 3 13:01:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA05BB7.54DE0A2@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Mar 2, 1 09:49:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 683 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010303/e884aa37/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 3 13:03:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA01F12.3586.61C5884@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Mar 2, 1 10:30:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 369 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010303/8a40d215/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 3 12:43:22 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Book on clocks (was Re: Popular Computing on eBay for $150+) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 2, 1 03:51:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1058 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010303/45364a29/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 3 12:58:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 2, 1 09:01:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010303/e6dcb30e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 3 13:45:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA0F2D3.3775.3E788A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Mar 3, 1 01:34:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010303/1e606b19/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 3 15:40:00 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <3AA0F2D3.12466.3E785D@localhost> Message-ID: <3AA164B0.5DF57E84@internet1.net> The weight will depend on what is installed..... especially in the way of Hard drives! So you are sure you have a metal cased 60? That would be neat. I used to lift weights, but you counldn't tell that by looking at me now..... I never got very big even then :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lawrence Walker wrote: > > That set me scurrying for my Mueller. Both my 80s are 111 > models. Mueller informs me that the 80s all weigh 45.3 lbs and the > 60 weighs 47 lbs. He also intimates that the 161 has SCSI HDDs. > My first box, which I had to lug 2 blocks to get a cab, still makes > me think more like 100 lbs. Since then I've been able to scratch > parts of my back I never could before. > If you're sure the case is actually plastic and more so that of the 2 > model 60s there was also a plastic cased one, this is something > the MCA Mafia MUST learn about. > Possibly a european model produced to make North-Americans be > perceived as weak and effete. (Hee-Hee, titter-titter, "can't lift it".) > BTW you aren't a wrestler or weight-lifter by any chance are you ? From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Mar 3 16:05:22 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Qume dumb terminal References: Message-ID: <3AA16A96.3FFE48A6@eoni.com> Anybody want it? Model: QVT-101 w/ keyboard. Yours for the postage. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 3 20:33:37 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: 8080 Programs to be posted Message-ID: <000201c0a455$e0e95f60$1c779a8d@ajp166> From: Cini, Richard > If anyone's interested, I've been working on producing compilable >source for some printed 8080-based programs. I have to do some final proof >reading, but I will post shortly to my Web site the source for Lawrence >Livermore BASIC (from an early DDJ issue) and the Amsat-Golem monitor >program (from an early BYTE magazine). I have the listings for them in one of the Best of Interface Age books. It also contains: LLL BASIC Dr Wangs Palo Alto BASIC (tiny) National TinyBasic (NIBL) Floppy Rom #1 Robert Unterwyks 6800 4k basic Allison From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Mar 3 23:51:29 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Attention: KS10 owners In-Reply-To: <01030307504400.00752@portaleo> Message-ID: > I would be very interested in one. How close to NY are you These KS10s are not for sale - I am just storing them for some people, but now I must make room for more toys and inventory. I might, however, trade my KS10 for something big and IBM. Likewise, I might trade my "project" LINC-8 and PDP-8/Is for things big and IBM. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Mar 3 23:40:19 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> I know a couple weeks back there was a thread where everybody took a turn describing what horrors a particular shipper had committed to something they sent. I didn't pay much attention to it then, but perhaps I should have. At any rate, my question is somewhat different. I've been collecting computers for only two years, but at the top of my wish list has been to get a Wang 2200, one of the older models. It is the machine I learned to program on, and it left a strong impression. My coding style still suffers because of it. :-) Well, I finally found somebody who will ship me one for the cost of shipping. It is in Portland, OR, and I'm in San Jose, CA. The estimated weight is 200-300 pounds including accessories and docs. [ The early 2200's had a power supply box, a suitcase-sized box that contained the TTL CPU, then a separate keyboard/monitor. The setup I'm hoping to get also has three external tape drives and a modified selectric as a printing device. ] Because the guy who has it is essentially giving it away, I want to make it as easy for him as possible, and at the same time I want to get it packed really well because I don't want anything to happen to it. I guess I'm afraid that he'd just put it in a cardboard box stuffed with newspapers. A scan through the yellow pages under "Packaging Materials" and "Packaging Services" showed quite a few people who package things for a price, but I've never used one. Does anybody have any tips on how to choose one? Should I insist on a wood crate, or foam-fill, or something else? As another data point, I tried the rate estimator on FedEx and it wouldn't accept a box that weighed 300 lbs. I tried 100 lbs and it said $50, which seems quite reasonable to me. So as another data point, I'd have to split the lot into two or three crates in order to send it. Thanks for any experience you can share. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From marvin at rain.org Sun Mar 4 00:45:15 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Attention: KS10 owners References: Message-ID: <3AA1E47B.6A166C6E@rain.org> William Donzelli wrote: > > > I would be very interested in one. How close to NY are you > > These KS10s are not for sale - I am just storing them for some people, > but now I must make room for more toys and inventory. > > I might, however, trade my KS10 for something big and IBM. Likewise, I > might trade my "project" LINC-8 and PDP-8/Is for things big and IBM. How about things small and IBM? I have several type 1 network cables, etc. that I want to get rid of but *really* don't want to toss. Are you or anyone on the list interested? There are 4 (approx 25 feet or so) cables with type 1 connectors on each end and there are several also IBM baluns. From mowhite at pegasus.rutgers.edu Sun Mar 4 00:56:51 2001 From: mowhite at pegasus.rutgers.edu (Monyca White) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Fax Machines Message-ID: <3AA1E733.1770EF77@pegasus.rutgers.edu> > While I'm at it, anyone remember an old Live from Off Center PBS show that > featured a single, half hour long Rube Goldberg contraption? It was in a > dark wharehouse and they taped it as some sort of performance art peice. It > rocked, and I can't find any info on it. Thanks! > I know you posted this a while ago, but I just found it. I was wondering if you ever found the information you were looking for - I am looking for the same tape of the 1/ 2 hour Rube Goldberg I saw on PBS. Please let me know if you got any further info. Thanks so much. Monyca White From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 4 06:46:18 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Ummm... lessee... You're in San Jose; the Box is in Portland. Having some small experience shipping Big (and Medium) Iron all over the world, and having gone thru exactly what you're facing , I have a small suggestion. Not knowing anything about your situation/schedules/resources.. would you consider renting a nice Budget Cargo Van or Ryder lift-gate truck, and making a weekend drive of it? I personally have driven from Seattle to Los Angeles with a vanload of PDP Stuff (Thanks again, Bruce!) in about 16 hours... because it was Sunday and I had to work the next day. San Jose to Portland is about 400? 500? miles right up the 5.. make a pleasant roadtrip of it, and only pay for the rental and gas. The big expense I have found in shipping via LTL and package services is that; if it isn't packed right, you get parts and junk at the other end... a legacy system is not generally insurable, and if it's heavy, you will have to deal with offloading it on your end.. if it shows up on the back of a bobtail, on a pallet, and you've got no forklift or loading dock... d'oh! Most of the time the driver won't want to do much lifting, and if your stop is scheduled in the beginning or middle of the run, he or she isn't going to be much inclined to wait while you try and figure out the logistics. Just my 2 bits -> 11 Cheers John From rmeenaks at olf.com Sun Mar 4 07:41:37 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Standalone transputer tram motherboard Message-ID: <001301c0a4b0$d70719a0$a159580c@olf.com> Hi, I am currently working on a planetary robotic rover which I am going to use some of my transputers as the embedded controller. However, B008s and the rest of the bunch are just too big. Is there any standalone size-4 transputer motherboards that can be booted via EEPROM with external connectors for power? I dont need any bus interfaces (ISA, PCI, VME, SBus, etc). Does such a thing exist or does anyone have schematics on how to build something like this? It should be very simple me thinks... Ram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010304/bae56503/attachment.html From enrico.badella at softstar.it Sun Mar 4 08:04:05 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: Message-ID: <3AA24B55.CC0AAA52@softstar.it> Tony Duell wrote: > > One neighbourhood cat round here has taken a liking to HP stuff. He's > been known to sleep on top of a (powered-off) HP9100B, a pile of HP41 > manuals, an HP9154, and a large box of HP-related books (not all at the Our 'office cat' Camilla normally sleeps on a powered on sun monitor. I frequently compare her radiation acquired IT knowledge when there is a need to describe a totally ignorant programmers e. ========================================================================= Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From enrico.badella at softstar.it Sun Mar 4 08:06:31 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Attention: KS10 owners References: Message-ID: <3AA24BE7.CBD76E2D@softstar.it> William Donzelli wrote: > > > I would be very interested in one. How close to NY are you > > These KS10s are not for sale - I am just storing them for some people, > but now I must make room for more toys and inventory. > > I might, however, trade my KS10 for something big and IBM. Likewise, I > might trade my "project" LINC-8 and PDP-8/Is for things big and IBM. I'm the happy owner of an IBM 4381 + 20 JK3380 ... is that big enough? My biggest problem is finding at least 75KVA to start a small configuration e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Mar 4 09:35:53 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Emulex UC14 Message-ID: <3AA260D9.B92F9A1A@heathers.stdio.com> Does anyone have or know where I can find an info sheet on a Emulex UC14 Unibus SCSI controller? I was lucky enough to acquire one of these guys in a 11/750 that I just received. It has three rows of dips and a couple of jumper blocks to set. I'm sure it emulates a MSCP device but I need to know how to set the address. Thanks, Brian. From jss at ou.edu Sun Mar 4 09:43:54 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn things. A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to him: > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > about that! What do you think about this? (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 4 11:22:35 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <001701c0a4cf$e7b50680$1c779a8d@ajp166> From: Jeffrey S. Sharp > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > about that! It's combative. I'd also say it's not absolutly true, though, it could be. Things to consider: Is it truly rare or uncommon. Does an institution actually want it. Who removes, moves and/or ships it for either case? A) museum may or may not... B) You can make points by also providing that service. Often the "impressive deduction" is not real and the cost to remove and move the system is up to the owner. If there is a goal, I'd say make it easiest for the system owner to give or sell to you. The impressive deduction point is that most machines are simply used computers in the eyes of the IRS and of limited value and in all serious consideration most are common enough to not be "collectable" even if useable. I got a truckload of small VAXen once because the owner could not accept cash nor ship and was off in the corner of Vermont. Cost to me was a day of my time to load it and the 400miles of travel. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 4 12:16:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Standalone transputer tram motherboard In-Reply-To: <001301c0a4b0$d70719a0$a159580c@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Mar 4, 1 08:41:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2372 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010304/a776d938/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 4 12:36:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 4, 1 09:43:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5228 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010304/0fb32c63/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Mar 4 14:16:39 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: computers in movies Message-ID: <200103042016.NAA10316@calico.litterbox.com> I was just watching CircuitryMan the other day on cable. Amusing to find that even in the distant future when jacking into someone's brain is common place and the environment has been so despoiled as to be uninhabitable (and we get the environmental lecture from Plughead, the bad guy) that the tools the police use to scan someone's brain for information are driven by a Kaypro 2. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 4 14:21:11 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Emulex UC14 In-Reply-To: <3AA260D9.B92F9A1A@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone have or know where I can find an info sheet on a Emulex UC14 >Unibus SCSI controller? I was lucky enough to acquire one of these guys >in a 11/750 that I just received. It has three rows of dips and a couple >of jumper blocks to set. I'm sure it emulates a MSCP device but I need >to know how to set the address. > >Thanks, >Brian. Would some of the info on the UC07/08 be of help? ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/emulex_uc07_08/ I've also got a copy of the UC17 manual that was on the RSX BBS site if that would help I can email you a copy. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Mar 4 14:56:39 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: ID a keyboard please ? In-Reply-To: References: <3AA01F12.29048.61C58B2@localhost> Message-ID: <3AA265B7.10662.6D55F@localhost> Thanks Sellam. From the bad press the Sanyo has gotten on the list, I don't think I'll wait for its body to show up. If anyone wants this, it's up for grabs. Just cover shipping from Toronto. ciao larry > On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > It has a plastic silver-gray case and a metal bottom-plate It is > > qwerty with grey and black keys. There is a reset button on the > > upper-left side. There's a row of 5 function keys on the left > > labelled PF1 to PF10. On either side of the space key are LOCK on > > left side and GRAPH on right side. On the left side of the qwerty > > are ESC, a tab-key,CTRL, and SHIFT. It has the >< keys between the > > l-shift and Z.and double periods and commas where those usually are. > > Some others are also differently placed- INS/DEL are one key. It has > > a numeric keypad with a RED break key and a double 0 next to the > > regularly placed 0. > > Sounds like the keyboard to one of our favorite computers on this > list, the Sanyo MBC-550 series :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ahm at spies.com Sun Mar 4 15:28:23 2001 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: sleek and handy terminal program: DGTERM In-Reply-To: <200103022348.f22NmHu81528@mate.kjsl.com>; from Frank McConnell on Fri, Mar 02, 2001 at 03:48:16PM -0800 References: <200103022348.f22NmHu81528@mate.kjsl.com> Message-ID: <20010304162823.E17048@spies.com> Speaking of terminal programs, I was reminded recently of a very handy one. It's an MSDOS program called DGTERM. DGTERM does full VT102 emulation, as well as XMODEM and YMODEM file transfers. Best of all, it's a TSR that only takes up 23K of RAM. It can be found in most SimTel mirrors as DGTERM.ZIP Cheers, Andy From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 4 17:27:31 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:54 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: Uhhh... do you really have to ask... Why can't you execute the paper work for a non-profit yourself? In RI, it's $35. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." -Ovid On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear > some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic > computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should > donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn > things. > > A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was > torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot > of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would > get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes > to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and > time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to > him: > > > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > > about that! > > What do you think about this? > > (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> > W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ > 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > From optimus at canit.se Sun Mar 4 17:23:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <893.464T2550T236179optimus@canit.se> Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to >hear some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving >classic computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that >they should donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with >them and learn things. That depends on the museum. The one in Stenungsund, now sadly closed, had all micros turned on, free for everyone to program or play on. Certainly, it's not really an environment in which you would delve deeply into the machine, thpough I think that a good museum should facilitate that, too, perhaps in cooperation with usergroups, but at least it means a lot of people get hands- on experience with uncommon machines. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Was ist ein Erwachsener? Ein Kind, das vom Alter aufgepumpt ist. --- Simone de Beauvoir From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 4 17:21:56 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) References: <3AA00C1C.A9941F94@internet1.net> Message-ID: <008001c0a501$e7e886e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Rescue of Four Phase Systems mini-computer from Tampa (long) > Here in Michigan, we are fortunate, not to have very many. In fact, I > hadn't even heard of them until I lived in Missouri for awhile. I have > since learned that we have a few in Michigan, but they normally stay > south of us, do to the cold. I wouldn't even really know what one looks > like. Your're even luckier than us here. We have a thing called a white tail (or white tip) which has venom similarities to the Brown recluse your're describing. Very nasty, often recurring, wounds result, that can leave serious scarring and require surgical excision of the necrotic tissue. Bad news. Prefer the outdoors to sheds, but you get them moderately often in stored equipment. Fortunately they are very unagressive and will bug out if at all possible. Huntsman - biggish 'tarantula' looking spider, only mildy poisonous, and rather unaggressive, but they move fast, and the size of some of them can make you jump 3 feet and hurt yourself. Then we get into the bad stuff. Red Backs (love the same places) Very poisonous, can deadly to kids. Something like a black widow. Very often find these in stuff that's been in a shed for a while. Not particularly aggressive, but can be a problem as they like the undersurfaces of things. Black House spider - Poisonous, not deadly, but can make you very ill, children are particularly at risk. Very common, and like the same sort of places. Probably have several dozen in my house, they like ceiling spaces. Trap door (so called from the holes they usually dig and hide in - with a trap door at the top, don't often find these in electronics, but you get the odd one, distant cousin to the Funnel web. Not as poisonous but makes you ill. Mouse spider - cousin to the Sydney Funnel Web. Nearly as poisonous. Deadly. Almost always Requires Funnel Web antivenene, Big, ugly looking sucker. (If they made Aracnophobia (the movie) with these it would have been even creepier) A family in New South Wales recently found their backyard FULL of these. No apparent reason. The entomologists are still trying to figure out where they came from and why they are in this one particular yard. Scary, they have little kids too. AFAIK, we don't get them around here. Just as well, they are fairly aggro as well. Sydney Funnel Web - not found around here (fortunately) mostly New South Wales and parts of Queensland, deadliest of the lot, leads to major respiratory failure and death in less than an hour if not treated with antivenene QUICKLY. Agressive, particularly in breeding season, and the male is even deadlier. Then we have the snakes. Of the top ten deadliest snakes in the world, we have about 8. At least 3 live locally (King Browns mostly - deadly if untreated) likes the same sort of environment, fortunately they are not that agressive. Common around here, even in towns and cities. There is a resident one in the target shed of the rifle range my cadet unit provide a butt party for on occasion. He is used to people and not a big problem, just make plenty of noise going into the shed, and he gets out the way. Tolerated because he stops mice eating the target material ;^). The Taipan (worst of the lot) is only found in Queensland and parts of the NT. Very mean bugger, known to chase you, and they are FAST, and deadly without an antivenene. Anyone want to move to Oz? ;^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 4 18:10:33 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, Jim Battle wrote: > I know a couple weeks back there was a thread where everybody took a turn > describing what horrors a particular shipper had committed to something > they sent. I didn't pay much attention to it then, but perhaps I should > have. At any rate, my question is somewhat different. > > I've been collecting computers for only two years, but at the top of my > wish list has been to get a Wang 2200, one of the older models. It is the > machine I learned to program on, and it left a strong impression. My > coding style still suffers because of it. :-) > > Well, I finally found somebody who will ship me one for the cost of > shipping. It is in Portland, OR, and I'm in San Jose, CA. The estimated > weight is 200-300 pounds including accessories and docs. [ The early > 2200's had a power supply box, a suitcase-sized box that contained the TTL > CPU, then a separate keyboard/monitor. The setup I'm hoping to get also > has three external tape drives and a modified selectric as a printing device. ] > > Because the guy who has it is essentially giving it away, I want to make it > as easy for him as possible, and at the same time I want to get it packed > really well because I don't want anything to happen to it. I guess I'm > afraid that he'd just put it in a cardboard box stuffed with newspapers. > > A scan through the yellow pages under "Packaging Materials" and "Packaging > Services" showed quite a few people who package things for a price, but > I've never used one. Does anybody have any tips on how to choose > one? Should I insist on a wood crate, or foam-fill, or something else? > > As another data point, I tried the rate estimator on FedEx and it wouldn't > accept a box that weighed 300 lbs. I tried 100 lbs and it said $50, which > seems quite reasonable to me. So as another data point, I'd have to split > the lot into two or three crates in order to send it. > > Thanks for any experience you can share. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net Were I you, and in consideration of the costs of packing over and above the costs of shipping, I would entertain the idea of begging, borrowing, or renting a station wagon and driving up there to pick it up in person. Portland is not that distant a drive, the roads are good and the scenery delightful. - don From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 4 18:18:41 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear > some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic > computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should > donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn > things. > > A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was > torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot > of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would > get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes > to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and > time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to > him: > > > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > > about that! > > What do you think about this? > > (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) But you have left out the vital piece of information! Did it work? - don > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- > Version 3.12 > GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> > W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ > 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > From eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com Sun Mar 4 18:49:03 2001 From: eric-no-spam-for-me at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? In-Reply-To: John Lawson's message of "Sun, 4 Mar 2001 07:46:18 -0500 (EST)" References: Message-ID: John Lawson writes: > San Jose to Portland is about 400? 500? miles right up the 5.. make > a pleasant roadtrip of it, and only pay for the rental and gas. 665.2 miles, according to Yahoo Maps. Sounds about right, I've driven it several times. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Mar 4 19:14:10 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <40.8448480.27d44262@aol.com> Re: non profit orgs: starting a non profit org is certainly much more than $35 as listed below. >From reasearch I was doing, you have to draft up a statement of purpose or something like that, then there's a $500 fee payable to the govt as well as much more paperwork. doesnt seem too cost effective at first viewing. In a message dated 3/4/01 6:53:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, at258@osfn.org writes: << Uhhh... do you really have to ask... Why can't you execute the paper work for a non-profit yourself? In RI, it's $35. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum Shady Lea, Rhode Island >> From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 4 18:28:57 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <001701c0a4cf$e7b50680$1c779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > Things to consider: > > Is it truly rare or uncommon. > Does an institution actually want it. Very good point. A lot of the "official" computer museums won't take common stuff. You can check out The Computer Museum's donation criteria here: http://www.computerhistory.org/contribute/index.page#artifacts Basically, they say they won't accept any common machines anymore. They have plenty. Also, people have a misconception of how useful a tax deduction really is. Even a $1,000 donation only amounts to a few dollars back on their return. I'm going to check with my tax guy and find out how much a donation deduction means on the bottom line (unless someone here knows this). It'd be nice to have a baseline figure so that you could just offer the equivalent cash to anyone wanting to donate something but is considering the tax break. Cash is immediate and under-the-table :) > Who removes, moves and/or ships it for either case? > A) museum may or may not... > B) You can make points by also providing that service. Most museums will not pay for the shipping, unless it's something exotic or crucial. > Often the "impressive deduction" is not real and the cost to remove and > move the system is up to the owner. If there is a goal, I'd say make it > easiest for the system owner to give or sell to you. Exactly. See above. Make sure you explain to people wanting to donate old hardware that either they won't find anybody who'll take it or the expense will outweigh any cash they get back on their tax return. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 4 18:31:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 4 Mar 2001, Eric Smith wrote: > John Lawson writes: > > San Jose to Portland is about 400? 500? miles right up the 5.. make > > a pleasant roadtrip of it, and only pay for the rental and gas. > > 665.2 miles, according to Yahoo Maps. Sounds about right, I've driven > it several times. Piece a cake. It'd be nice if you could take it at 100MPH and get there in six and a half hours, but the law hasn't changed to reflect the safety factor built into modern cars :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From at258 at osfn.org Sun Mar 4 20:41:44 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <40.8448480.27d44262@aol.com> Message-ID: Well, Delaware incorpoartion is another possibilty, and how difficult is a statement of purpose? Check with another museum's and modify it accordingly. You could copy from ours, for instance. On Sun, 4 Mar 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Re: non profit orgs: > starting a non profit org is certainly much more than $35 as listed below. > From reasearch I was doing, you have to draft up a statement of purpose or > something like that, then there's a $500 fee payable to the govt as well as > much more paperwork. doesnt seem too cost effective at first viewing. > > > In a message dated 3/4/01 6:53:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, at258@osfn.org > writes: > > << Uhhh... > do you really have to ask... > > Why can't you execute the paper work for a non-profit yourself? In RI, > it's $35. > > M. K. Peirce > Rhode Island Computer Museum > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > >> > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cube1 at home.com Sun Mar 4 21:08:20 2001 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Netbooting Apollo Domain [34]x00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010304210546.0462f600@cirithi> I would guess that they used a very special network packet type -- not IP. Since Domain was before Apollo was bought out by HP, it won't know HP boot sequences. I can dig out the command sequence, but I doubt that that will get you want you need. As I recall, it went something like: > RE > (just in case) > DI N > EX program-to-load Jay At 04:16 PM 2/28/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi! > >Does anybody have information about how the Apollo Domain xx00 series goes >about netbooting? I didn't recognize any standard boot protocol... > >Is it possible to teach it to user BOOTP/TFTP/RARP stuff or maybe the HP >remote boot thingies? > > >Thanks, > > Kevin --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Sun Mar 4 21:27:25 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA05BB7.54DE0A2@internet1.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010304192725.007f6220@yellow.ucdavis.edu> OK, well I'm a displaced Canadian and I automatically assume weights to be in Kilo. So 40 LIBS it is. Things in the US are just too democratic and the government can't ignore the public's complaints about converting to metric. People in Canada complained about converting to the metric system, but it went through anyway. My opinion is that many people from the US are paranoid of things from the outside (like the metric system), as if it is some Communistic plot. Edwin At 09:49 PM 3/2/2001 -0500, you wrote: >18+KG 40+lbs :-) 45+kg would fall through the floor :-) > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Mar 4 22:12:59 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010304194324.00b5a6b0@pacbell.net> At 04:10 PM 3/4/01 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: >[ re: my need to ship a 300 lb computer from portland OR to san jose, CA ] > >Were I you, and in consideration of the costs of packing over and above >the costs of shipping, I would entertain the idea of begging, borrowing, >or renting a station wagon and driving up there to pick it up in person. >Portland is not that distant a drive, the roads are good and the scenery >delightful. > - don Two years ago, no problem. Even my wife would have been game for it. But now with two 18 month old toddlers, abandoning my wife for a weekend or strapping the two kiddies in a car seat for 16 hours isn't an option. Perhaps I should just wait a bit for a couple more quakes to bring the two cities closer together. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jss at ou.edu Sun Mar 4 22:31:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <983766676.3aa31694bdea3@email.ou.edu> > > I sent the following argument to him: > > ... > > But you have left out the vital piece of information! Did it work? It did make him ready to consider an offer from me, but due to money constraints, I don't think I was able to offer him enough. :-( -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From jerryjh at imt.net Sun Mar 4 22:47:21 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Sharp PC 4502 Battery Substitute? Message-ID: <200103050436.VAA13062@cu.imt.net> Hello, folks -- My first computer, a portable Sharp PC 4502, needs a substitute battery, now that its original Yuasa battery is no longer manufactured. Other batteries exist almost identical in power specifications, but not in dimensions. The Yuasa battery had the following specifications: NP4.2-6H 6V, 4.2Ah -- dimensions: 1 7/8" x 2" x 4 5/8"; sealed lead-acid. The AC adaptor (which still works fine, luckily) has the following specifications: IN: 120V AC 60Hz 23 W; OUT: 10V DC 1.2A. (The computer has two 720k floppy drives, no hard drive, a back-lighted 640x200 LCD screen, V20 CPU clocked at 7.11 MHz, and the only peripheral I've used with it is my Okidata ML 182 Turbo 9-pin printer that I still share with three other computers on a data switch. I bought this computer in 1989 through DAMARK when it was already close to being obsolete; it was manufactured around 1987.) I still have the original dead battery, and it's stamped with 8710281 on its side; the second (nearly identical) Yuasa battery is stamped with 9410211, and I'm barely able to keep it charged for any meaningful length of time anymore. Does anyone know of a suitable substitute battery that would satisfy the above specifications? This has been a very interesting machine from an important era in pioneer portable computers that I think would be worthwhile preserving in working condition. Although I can run the machine with its AC adaptor, it would be a pain to keep that constantly plugged in to avoid the setup screen that pops up when turned on without a battery (and always have to reset everything). And it would be odd, too, to have an oversized battery connected to it from outside of its case, and inconvenient (to say the least). Thank you for any suggestions! Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From jerryjh at imt.net Sun Mar 4 22:47:31 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103050436.VAA13083@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-04 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: Hi, Jeffrey -- If you are new to the list, that makes two of us. ;-) >I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be >good to hear some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against >people giving classic computers in working condition to museums. >Instead, I believe that they should donate or sell their machines >to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn things. Let me add my opinion to your comments. Perhaps there's a proper place for museums and a place for learning. Museums should ideally have the at least a few of the best preserved specimens of chosen categories, especially the rarer categories, in both working and nonworking condition: working order for preservation; nonworking for learning. Of course, any of us should be allowed to have private collections for learning or whatever else -- but not the liberty to deliberately destroy history that could be beneficial to mankind. We should remember, too, that there's another category of classic computer usage, and that's the use of many older systems for charitable purposes, of which there is certainly an abundance. Instead of mindlessly destroying "obsolete" machines, in many cases, older machines still have plenty of serviceable life left in them for those who may not be able to easily afford anything "modern", even if only for the purpose of learning. With respect to learning from classic machines, I believe that it's vital for us to consider what has lasted and what is still useful with "old technology". My own handful of classic computers consists of my first computer, a Sharp PC 4502 portable, an IBM PC/XT, an IBM PC/AT, an IBM PS/1, and a Tandy/Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 100, most of which I consider to be keystone system designs leading to the present day mass production of Personal Computers. In examining the "lessons" of old computers, I think it's important to distinguish between what's necessary and what's not, what's wasteful and what's not. I consider -- even as you do -- that it's particularly important to preserve many computers for learning purposes, and not just for glass cases. The same is true for old software. My hope is that, if old hardware and software is preserved with the proper respect and care it deserves, more of the same could one day be duplicated -- at least with the most important principles that they've taught us. So far, I think the surface of this important process has only just begun to be scratched. Yes, my old machines are all in working condition, and, for the most part, in original condition. I use them, learn from them, and cherish them dearly. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Mar 4 23:36:53 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20010304194324.00b5a6b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3AA325F3.FE292C0@eoni.com> Why not call a Moving Van. Mayflower, Allied, Bekins etc. The *know* how to move computers and you could probably have it moved 'space available' for less than it would cost to have it 'shipped.' Jim From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 4 23:47:47 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <3.0.5.32.20010302092848.007b1e90@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010302173128.007d3600@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <3.0.5.32.20010304192725.007f6220@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <001901c0a537$cf00e2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin P. Groot" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:57 PM Subject: Re: New here :-) > OK, well I'm a displaced Canadian and I automatically assume weights > to be in Kilo. So 40 LIBS it is. > Things in the US are just too democratic and the government can't > ignore the public's complaints about converting to metric. Hmph. Too Democratic? Contradiction in terms. I think the lobbyists just have more power. > People in Canada complained about converting to the metric system, but it went > through anyway. We had the same experience down under. Like or not, here it is. To preserve my sanity I retained my familiarity with the imperial weights and measures I learnt in Primary (er, grade school to you Yanks,) combined it with the metric stuff they taught us in High School, coupled with conversion factors to go readily from one to the other, this allows me to think/visualise in my preferred units (depending on the circumstance) then spit out the correct (politically or otherwise) units to those that only speak one system. (Virtually anyone in Oz under the age of 30 or over the age of 50.) Personally the most annoying conversion is the metric equivalent of Miles to the Gallon for fuel consumption. I will volunteer for the firing squad for whatever idiot decided that Litres per 100Km was the proper subtitute. 4.454 litres to the (British Imperial not US) gallon and .621 British (not US) Statute miles to the Kilometre. Yech. Add to this the fact that certain industries (aviation for instance) regularly use elements of both. We still measure altitude in feet, but ACFT weights in kilo's, runway lengths in metres, navigational distances in Nautical miles (they are stuck with that for all time, since a nautical mile is 1/60th of a degree of latitude. ie 1 Minute). I feel inclined to add that despite the interim headaches, we are ultimately better off with Metric. I felt a bit the same at the change in currency from Pounds shillings and pence to dollars. > My opinion is that many people from the US are paranoid of > things from the outside (like the metric system), as if it is some > Communistic plot. Well, paranoid is a bit strong, however they do seem to show a tendency to regard anything that has A) Originated elsewhere or B) Not been in use in the US for 100 years or more As "unAmerican". Apart from it's local 'mods', like the US mile, US ton, US gallon - we used the slightly larger, Genuine, Unadulterated Imperial measures, 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards to the mile, and 2,240 pounds to the ton - the US system is what the British left them in the first place. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Mar 5 01:01:57 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums References: <200103050436.VAA13083@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: <006301c0a542$2bb3c480$45eab3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Perhaps there's a proper place for museums and a place for learning. > Museums should ideally have the at least a few of the best preserved > specimens of chosen categories, especially the rarer categories, in > both working and nonworking condition: working order for preservation; > nonworking for learning. Of course, any of us should be allowed to > have private collections for learning or whatever else -- but not the > liberty to deliberately destroy history that could be beneficial to > mankind. The Museums clearly serve several useful purposes, such that I think the "us vs. them" label is inappropriate. Here are a few that come to mind: 1. They are higher profile that individual enthusiats and therefore a magnet for systems that might otherwise end up in the dumpster or with scrappers. 2. They tend to be open to the general public making the machines accessible to anyone who wants to see them. 3. They educate the public about the value of preserving old computers, and introduce new people to the hobby. (I know some may not think this is necessarily a good thing.) 4. The curators tend to be schooled in preservation, and while they may not operate their machines, they usually keep them safe, dry, etc. 5. They can usually accommodate the very large machines that many collectors don't have the room for. 6. Museums can sometimes undertake restoration projects that require the coordination of people and resources that individuals would unlikely be able to accomplish on their own, such as those undertaken by The Computer Museum History Center located at Moffett Airfield. 7. Museums don't sell on eBay (or sell at all for that matter); a number of "us" do. -W From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 5 01:08:18 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > > Things to consider: > > > > Is it truly rare or uncommon. > > Does an institution actually want it. > > Very good point. A lot of the "official" computer museums won't take > common stuff. You can check out The Computer Museum's donation criteria > here: > > http://www.computerhistory.org/contribute/index.page#artifacts > > Basically, they say they won't accept any common machines anymore. They > have plenty. > > Also, people have a misconception of how useful a tax deduction really is. > Even a $1,000 donation only amounts to a few dollars back on their return. > I'm going to check with my tax guy and find out how much a donation > deduction means on the bottom line (unless someone here knows this). It'd > be nice to have a baseline figure so that you could just offer the > equivalent cash to anyone wanting to donate something but is considering > the tax break. Cash is immediate and under-the-table :) Well, with a few caveats, it should be your marginal tax rate (your 'bracket') times the valuation of the donation. For example, your $1000 donation should bring you a $280 tax deduction if you are in the 28% bracket. - don > > Who removes, moves and/or ships it for either case? > > A) museum may or may not... > > B) You can make points by also providing that service. > > Most museums will not pay for the shipping, unless it's something exotic > or crucial. > > > Often the "impressive deduction" is not real and the cost to remove and > > move the system is up to the owner. If there is a goal, I'd say make it > > easiest for the system owner to give or sell to you. > > Exactly. See above. Make sure you explain to people wanting to donate > old hardware that either they won't find anybody who'll take it or the > expense will outweigh any cash they get back on their tax return. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Mar 5 01:48:10 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums References: Message-ID: <006d01c0a548$a083e280$45eab3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > Also, people have a misconception of how useful a tax deduction really is. > > Even a $1,000 donation only amounts to a few dollars back on their return. > > I'm going to check with my tax guy and find out how much a donation > > deduction means on the bottom line (unless someone here knows this). It'd > > be nice to have a baseline figure so that you could just offer the > > equivalent cash to anyone wanting to donate something but is considering > > the tax break. Cash is immediate and under-the-table :) > > Well, with a few caveats, it should be your marginal tax rate (your > 'bracket') times the valuation of the donation. For example, your $1000 > donation should bring you a $280 tax deduction if you are in the 28% > bracket. > - don 37.3% if you are also in CA in the 9.3% state bracket (and it doesn't take much to get there). Highest possible tax benefit would seem to be a (rich) person living in CA in the 39.6% federal and 9.3% state brackets - $489 returned for every $1000 donated. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 5 03:49:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983766676.3aa31694bdea3@email.ou.edu> References: Message-ID: >> But you have left out the vital piece of information! Did it work? > >It did make him ready to consider an offer from me, but due to money >constraints, I don't think I was able to offer him enough. :-( NEVER assume your offer will be unacceptable. Making ridiculous bids has gotten me too many deals. Most important factor seems to be your attitude, if you appear to be making a "good faith" offer and not openly screwing the person, many times they accept. From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 5 07:38:19 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <40.8448480.27d44262@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305073451.0287ad20@pc> At 08:14 PM 3/4/01 -0500, you wrote: >Re: non profit orgs: >starting a non profit org is certainly much more than $35 as listed below. >>From reasearch I was doing, you have to draft up a statement of purpose or >something like that, then there's a $500 fee payable to the govt as well as >much more paperwork. doesnt seem too cost effective at first viewing. The paperwork for state-level creation of a non-profit, non-stock corporation (like a club of some kind) is in the $50 range in most states. The application for Federal USA-level non-profit status in terms of the IRS is about $500. I've been tempted by the latter. At one of my favorite haunts, the UW-Madison surplus sale, they allow non-profits to buy on Thursday - the public is allowed on Friday. First dibs! However, if I ever re-sold something, I would be in trouble. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Mar 5 07:44:25 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <200103050436.VAA13083@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305074019.0295b220@pc> I'm all for the learning lab vs. museum distinction, and wish there were more of the former than the latter, but not at the cost of the latter never existing. On the other hand, to play the devil's advocate, shouldn't there be some set of criteria to help judge what to save, and what to ignore? How does it serve the purpose of either a learning lab or museum to save *everything*? Isn't some software or hardware more valuable than others? - John From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Mar 5 08:00:55 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: > > > > Well, with a few caveats, it should be your marginal >tax rate (your > > 'bracket') times the valuation of the donation. For >example, your $1000 > > donation should bring you a $280 tax deduction if you >are in the 28% > > bracket. > > - don The "value" of a item donated to a museum is not mecessarily the market value. In many cases the numbers are vastly inflated in order to entice additional donations. Let's assume you are in a high tax bracket and looking for a little relief. You find a bargain on a very rare computer and pay $10,000 for it. You haul it down to the local technology museum, who is anxious to have the donation, and agree to give them the item. In exchange you ask them to provide a receipt for $100,000 for the machine. Since it's not costing them anything and the addition to the museum will entice additional visitors, they gladly agree to provide the receipt. You claim a $100,000 donation on your tax return and pay taxes on that much less of your income. That would probably be in the 30% - 40% range. Or a savings of $30,000 to $40,000!!! So... for your $10,000 investment you: 1.) Look like a real upstanding citizen for supporting the local museum. 2.) Get your name on a plaque in the museum (free advertising). 3.) Save $30,000 to $40,000 on your taxes. The museum gets a nice addition to it's collection at no cost. Next time you go to a museum, look around. Most of the really valuable things were not donated because someone felt particularily generous. They were donated because the owners got huge tax breaks by donating them. The whole thing is a SCAM! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 5 08:28:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums References: <006d01c0a548$a083e280$45eab3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000d01c0a580$8483c900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Now, I'm not a tax expert, but I've done my own for a long time, and it's not very complicated ... If your total (FED + Sate + Local) tax burden, less FICA, is on the order of 50% then a $100 writeoff is equivalent to a $50 credit, since what you can deduct from one is normally deductible from the others. That's quite a bit, if you ask me, particularly when you're allowed to write off the entire cash basis, less depreciation, that you hve in the thing. If it's a minicomputer that you bought to run your business, at, say $80,000 and you've not depreciated the entire amount, then whatever you didn't depreciate out of its initial value, plus whatever you've invested (but not in maintenance, since that's separately deductible), is what you can write off now. Sometimes that's quite a bit, depending on the situation. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 12:48 AM Subject: Re: Us vs. Museums > > > Also, people have a misconception of how useful a > tax deduction really is. > > > Even a $1,000 donation only amounts to a few > dollars back on their return. > > > I'm going to check with my tax guy and find out how > much a donation > > > deduction means on the bottom line (unless someone > here knows this). It'd > > > be nice to have a baseline figure so that you could > just offer the > > > equivalent cash to anyone wanting to donate > something but is considering > > > the tax break. Cash is immediate and > under-the-table :) > > > > Well, with a few caveats, it should be your marginal > tax rate (your > > 'bracket') times the valuation of the donation. For > example, your $1000 > > donation should bring you a $280 tax deduction if you > are in the 28% > > bracket. > > - don > > 37.3% if you are also in CA in the 9.3% state bracket > (and it doesn't take much to get there). > > Highest possible tax benefit would seem to be a (rich) > person living in CA in the 39.6% federal and 9.3% state > brackets - $489 returned for every $1000 donated. > > > > From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 5 08:31:51 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305073451.0287ad20@pc> Message-ID: We paid an IRS fee of $150, but it took us 16 months to get approval. On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 08:14 PM 3/4/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Re: non profit orgs: > >starting a non profit org is certainly much more than $35 as listed below. > >>From reasearch I was doing, you have to draft up a statement of purpose or > >something like that, then there's a $500 fee payable to the govt as well as > >much more paperwork. doesnt seem too cost effective at first viewing. > > The paperwork for state-level creation of a non-profit, non-stock > corporation (like a club of some kind) is in the $50 range in most > states. The application for Federal USA-level non-profit status > in terms of the IRS is about $500. > > I've been tempted by the latter. At one of my favorite haunts, > the UW-Madison surplus sale, they allow non-profits to buy on > Thursday - the public is allowed on Friday. First dibs! > However, if I ever re-sold something, I would be in trouble. > > - John > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 5 08:35:42 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The only caveat is that the museum cannot set a value on the donation. The donor does that. IRS regulations. On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > > > > > > Well, with a few caveats, it should be your marginal > >tax rate (your > > > 'bracket') times the valuation of the donation. For > >example, your $1000 > > > donation should bring you a $280 tax deduction if you > >are in the 28% > > > bracket. > > > - don > > The "value" of a item donated to a museum is not mecessarily the market > value. In many cases the numbers are vastly inflated in order to entice > additional donations. > > Let's assume you are in a high tax bracket and looking for a little relief. > You find a bargain on a very rare computer and pay $10,000 for it. You haul > it down to the local technology museum, who is anxious to have the donation, > and agree to give them the item. In exchange you ask them to provide a > receipt for $100,000 for the machine. Since it's not costing them anything > and the addition to the museum will entice additional visitors, they gladly > agree to provide the receipt. > > You claim a $100,000 donation on your tax return and pay taxes on that much > less of your income. That would probably be in the 30% - 40% range. Or a > savings of $30,000 to $40,000!!! > > So... for your $10,000 investment you: > > 1.) Look like a real upstanding citizen for supporting the local museum. > > 2.) Get your name on a plaque in the museum (free advertising). > > 3.) Save $30,000 to $40,000 on your taxes. > > The museum gets a nice addition to it's collection at no cost. > > Next time you go to a museum, look around. Most of the really valuable > things were not donated because someone felt particularily generous. They > were donated because the owners got huge tax breaks by donating them. The > whole thing is a SCAM! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mwp at acm.org Mon Mar 5 09:34:11 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums References: Message-ID: <003401c0a589$ba443a30$8e8fc186@umkcpi> Wouldn't the $90,000 profit realized (the $100,000 donation value minus the $10,000 price) then be taxable income in this example? > Let's assume you are in a high tax bracket and looking for a little relief. > You find a bargain on a very rare computer and pay $10,000 for it. You haul > it down to the local technology museum, who is anxious to have the donation, > and agree to give them the item. In exchange you ask them to provide a > receipt for $100,000 for the machine. Since it's not costing them anything > and the addition to the museum will entice additional visitors, they gladly > agree to provide the receipt. > > You claim a $100,000 donation on your tax return and pay taxes on that much > less of your income. That would probably be in the 30% - 40% range. Or a > savings of $30,000 to $40,000!!! From jss at ou.edu Mon Mar 5 09:36:15 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305074019.0295b220@pc> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305074019.0295b220@pc> Message-ID: <983806575.3aa3b26f6ff15@email.ou.edu> > I'm all for the learning lab vs. museum distinction, and wish > there were more of the former than the latter, but not at the > cost of the latter never existing. We can not, and should not, stop computers from making their way into museums. I only wish that people who are considering donation of working, nonrare machines would side favorably with the enthusiast if conflict occurs. > On the other hand, to play the devil's advocate, shouldn't > there be some set of criteria to help judge what to save, > and what to ignore? How does it serve the purpose of either > a learning lab or museum to save *everything*? Things break. You need parts. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Mar 5 10:28:16 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Dr Dobb's Journal CDROM Release 7 (Jan88 - Jun99) Online! Message-ID: <3AA3BEA0.1060401@olf.com> Hi, While surfing the web, I found this site that has the whole CD online! Check it out... http://www.egor.spb.ru/doc/BookCD/DrDobbs/ Ram From s.d.birchall at pgr.salford.ac.uk Mon Mar 5 11:13:38 2001 From: s.d.birchall at pgr.salford.ac.uk (Stu) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: northstar stuff in UK? Message-ID: <001401c0a597$9ea8a0f0$530917d4@office.zen.co.uk> Hi all, was there much Northstar kit in the UK at any point? I seem to remember seeing a Northstar Horizon in the computer junk shop, widnes, many years ago (ten years ago at least). I wouldn't mind something like that now, or an Advantage, but would it be a wild goose chase? Regards, Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/bb2ae02b/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 10:08:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <001901c0a537$cf00e2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Well, paranoid is a bit strong, however they do seem to show a tendency > to regard anything that has > A) Originated elsewhere > or > B) Not been in use in the US for 100 years or more > As "unAmerican". > Apart from it's local 'mods', like the US mile, US ton, US gallon - we > used the slightly larger, Genuine, Unadulterated Imperial measures, > 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards to the mile, and 2,240 pounds to the ton - the > US system is what the British left them in the first place. If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the measurements for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in a quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. Call me a Communist. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 10:16:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305074019.0295b220@pc> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > On the other hand, to play the devil's advocate, shouldn't > there be some set of criteria to help judge what to save, > and what to ignore? How does it serve the purpose of either > a learning lab or museum to save *everything*? Isn't some > software or hardware more valuable than others? There are different levels to consider. Is it important technically? Historically? Culturally? Aesthetically? This is why I make it a practice to preserve whatever I can, from hardware and software to books and magazines to t-shirts and other ephemera. All of it is significant on some level to someone, and all of it is significant in terms of historical record. I'll bet some archaeologists wished they had a handful of Egyptian poop to study these days. While I'm not going to go around collecting stool samples from the various computing pioneers that are still among us, the point is you never know what is going to be significant for study 10, 100, 1000, 10,000 years from now, so I save everything I can. We can't predict what artifacts will be "more valuable" because we are seeing them in our own narrow scope of time. It's best to err on the side of caution and save everything, if you have the room (and the perserverance) for it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 10:17:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > The only caveat is that the museum cannot set a value on the donation. > The donor does that. IRS regulations. And if you get audited, you must be able to somehow justify that value. BTW, I can provide appraisals to those wanting to avoid the big bad G-man! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 5 11:31:15 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <003401c0a589$ba443a30$8e8fc186@umkcpi> Message-ID: Another nit to pick: If you buy something, and then turn around and donate it, the "value" of the donation is the amount that you paid for it. If, however, you buy something and sit on it, ... Then the value is its "fair market value". I'm not sure, but I think that the requisite time interval is a year. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Michael Passer wrote: > Wouldn't the $90,000 profit realized (the $100,000 donation value > minus the $10,000 price) then be taxable income in this example? > > > Let's assume you are in a high tax bracket and looking for a little > relief. > > You find a bargain on a very rare computer and pay $10,000 for it. You > haul > > it down to the local technology museum, who is anxious to have the > donation, > > and agree to give them the item. In exchange you ask them to provide a > > receipt for $100,000 for the machine. Since it's not costing them anything > > and the addition to the museum will entice additional visitors, they > gladly > > agree to provide the receipt. > > > > You claim a $100,000 donation on your tax return and pay taxes on that > much > > less of your income. That would probably be in the 30% - 40% range. Or a > > savings of $30,000 to $40,000!!! From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Mar 5 12:49:53 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. > American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. > > Call me a Communist. Ok, but you'll have to provide me with the phone number of one. *gd&r* g. From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Mar 5 12:11:41 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: References: <001901c0a537$cf00e2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305125828.0289ca50@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 08:08 AM 3/5/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > Well, paranoid is a bit strong, however they do seem to show a tendency > > to regard anything that has > > A) Originated elsewhere > > or > > B) Not been in use in the US for 100 years or more > > As "unAmerican". > > Apart from it's local 'mods', like the US mile, US ton, US gallon - we > > used the slightly larger, Genuine, Unadulterated Imperial measures, > > 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards to the mile, and 2,240 pounds to the ton - the > > US system is what the British left them in the first place. > >If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the measurements >for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in a >quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? > >If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. >American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. > >Call me a Communist. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Yeah, let's get rid of all those stupid non-metric measurements. Especially those pesky units of time. I mean, what idiot came up with "seconds", "minutes" and "hours", anyway? The "hours" even repeat twice every "day" -- how stupid is that! We need a nice metric time measurement to help us get out of our silly American technological rut and encourage more Continental innovations like EuroDisney... :-) Then again, maybe DEC had it right all along -- KiloCoreTicks forever! -- Tony From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 5 04:24:56 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 04 Mar 2001 19:27:25 PST." <3.0.5.32.20010304192725.007f6220@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <200103051024.KAA17810@citadel.metropolis.local> > OK, well I'm a displaced Canadian and I automatically assume weights > to be in Kilo. So 40 LIBS it is. > Things in the US are just too democratic and the government can't > ignore the public's complaints about converting to metric. People in > Canada complained about converting to the metric system, but it went > through anyway. My opinion is that many people from the US are paranoid of > things from the outside (like the metric system), as if it is some > Communistic plot. Here in Britain it's regarded as an EU plot ;-) The howls of protest when anything new is metricated can probably be heard clear across the pond! Mind you, prosecuting a greengrocer for displaying his weights in pounds (as happend recently) was a bit over the top.... I've been metric since I was at school (late 50's - early '60s) so I can cope with either. My old 386 tower weighs about 1 1/2 stone.... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Mar 5 12:22:17 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) (& OT :) References: Message-ID: Metric is awful for medium sized measurements, though. There isn't a nice replacement for the "Foot" (Decimeter? I don't think so... besides I think it's a measuring instrument) And the cc is an awkward unit for measuring medium sized volumes. Add 600cc of water to your brownie mix? What's wrong with two cups? Metric is fine for many measurements and I don't care about switching, as long as we still use Imperial for certain things ( I REFUSE to go 100 Kilometers per hour, I will always go 60 MPH, and I'll run two miles a day though two kilometers would be easier :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. > American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. > > Call me a Communist. From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 5 12:27:41 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Atten: Bruce Lane References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3AA3DA9D.3C3991A9@rain.org> Sorry for the bandwidth here. Bruce, I emailed you about Codex equipment but the email just bounced back to me after 5 days. From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 5 12:36:34 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > The only caveat is that the museum cannot set a value on the donation. > The donor does that. IRS regulations. There are also IRS regulations as to deductability if the value exceeds 20% of your annual income as well. Admittedly, few of us are likely to be bothered by those. - don > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, with a few caveats, it should be your marginal > > >tax rate (your > > > > 'bracket') times the valuation of the donation. For > > >example, your $1000 > > > > donation should bring you a $280 tax deduction if you > > >are in the 28% > > > > bracket. > > > > - don > > > > The "value" of a item donated to a museum is not mecessarily the market > > value. In many cases the numbers are vastly inflated in order to entice > > additional donations. > > > > Let's assume you are in a high tax bracket and looking for a little relief. > > You find a bargain on a very rare computer and pay $10,000 for it. You haul > > it down to the local technology museum, who is anxious to have the donation, > > and agree to give them the item. In exchange you ask them to provide a > > receipt for $100,000 for the machine. Since it's not costing them anything > > and the addition to the museum will entice additional visitors, they gladly > > agree to provide the receipt. > > > > You claim a $100,000 donation on your tax return and pay taxes on that much > > less of your income. That would probably be in the 30% - 40% range. Or a > > savings of $30,000 to $40,000!!! > > > > So... for your $10,000 investment you: > > > > 1.) Look like a real upstanding citizen for supporting the local museum. > > > > 2.) Get your name on a plaque in the museum (free advertising). > > > > 3.) Save $30,000 to $40,000 on your taxes. > > > > The museum gets a nice addition to it's collection at no cost. > > > > Next time you go to a museum, look around. Most of the really valuable > > things were not donated because someone felt particularily generous. They > > were donated because the owners got huge tax breaks by donating them. The > > whole thing is a SCAM! > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 5 11:48:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <000001c0a5a4$bbc2cfa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What makes the transition to metric units more complicated is the unhandiness of some of the units, both physically and in terms of the references to them. For example ... a gallon is a pretty handy unit, though somewhat large, but a quart is pretty handy. The metric unit close to that is the liter, which is also a handy unit, though the next unit up is what? ... a decaliter? ... that's a mite large, eh? Likewise, handy units of measure, e.g. inch, foot, yard, etc, are not so common in the metric system.. You're always dealing with a milli-this or a kilo-that and that often makes it hard to visualize, and, consequently, communicate, not to mention, understand, what's being described. Once you've gotten used to the new units it's not so bad, but making the transition is what folks seem to resist. When you talk about how big something is, in the English system, you're talking feet and inches. When you say 44 cm, not everybody can immediately envision what you mean, but when you say "foot," since almost everybody's got one or two, they have a rough idea. Likewise, a gram, which is a reasonable measure for something really expensive, like cocaine, gets to be pretty unwieldy when you're talking about how much flour goes into a loaf of bread. In Germany, I remember dealing with a pound (half a kg) which, at 500 g is not far off the English pound (454 g). The fact that the Germans use a "Pfund" as a handy unit suggests that the metric units do leave something to be desired. After all it's not easy to grasp what a gigasecond is, nor is it useful to time events in microfortnights. I have to agree with the remarks about the cup, teaspoon, etc, but, again, everybody has a notion of how much that is, and anyone who's seen Justin Wilson's cooking program on PBS knows how easy it is to approximate that without any measuring instruments at all. On the other hand, how much baking soda is 13.5 g or how much milk is 100 ml? (...see how we're having to deal with large numbers of small units?...) The struggle is getting past the period of adjustment. In reality, the term "mile" refers to the 1000 paces of a marching army, so it's a thousand of something just as the kilometer is. Evenutally folks will figure out that a quarter teaspoon (about the smallest amount one's asked to measure when cooking) is about a cc, (maybe) and a tablespoon is really pretty close to some number (12 ?) of ml. Then, if a quart is 946 ml, then a cup must be on the order of 250 ml. Not precisely, but sort-of. In the meantime, here we are ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:08 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > Well, paranoid is a bit strong, however they do seem to show a tendency > > to regard anything that has > > A) Originated elsewhere > > or > > B) Not been in use in the US for 100 years or more > > As "unAmerican". > > Apart from it's local 'mods', like the US mile, US ton, US gallon - we > > used the slightly larger, Genuine, Unadulterated Imperial measures, > > 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards to the mile, and 2,240 pounds to the ton - the > > US system is what the British left them in the first place. > > If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the measurements > for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in a > quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? > > If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. > American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. > > Call me a Communist. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Mar 5 13:03:59 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: References: <3AA0F2D3.3775.3E788A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Mar 3, 1 01:34:11 pm Message-ID: <3AA39CCF.20360.4C63969@localhost> The PCjr bricks aren't too uncommon so I'll wait and I'm sure one will turn up. My time is better used fixing some of my other non- working machines. In any case thanks for the details of the construction. It'll go in my archives for future use. ciao larry > > BTW. Does anyone have an extra power supply for jr. Will pay or > > trade. I've never powered it up and it still had the inserts in the > > disk drives. > > > I assume you mean the PSU 'brick' and that you have the PSU card (it > has the power switch on it, so if you have that, you have the card) in > the machine. > > In which case, Make one :-). > > It's just a plain 17V transformer, at about 3A. The outside 2 pins on > the connector go to the ends of the secondary winding, the centre pin > goes to mains earth. It is not a centre-tapped transformer (or at > least, the one I built for my machine isn't and a centre-tapped > transformer would make no sense at all with the circuit of the PSU > board in the TechRef). > > In other words, something like this : > > 500mA fuse To PCjr PSU > connector > L o-------------O\O-----------------)||(----------------< > )||( > 120V )||( 17V +------< > )||( | > N o---------------------------------)||(---------)------< > | > E o----------------------------------------------+ > > Use a 50VA (or so) transformer, and add a fuse in series with one side > of the secondary if you like (I did) > > -tony > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Mar 5 14:17:31 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Standalone transputer tram motherboard References: Message-ID: <3AA3F45B.4000702@olf.com> Hi Tony, Your ideas are basically inline with mine. I want to have basically 4 Size-1 tram slots on the board with some type of controller to boot the network from EEPROM. The topology is going to be fixed as a small network like this doesnt need to flexible. And besides, I can always use virtual channels to connect it up any way I want (with a slight performance hit). Also I might add a PC104 bus for further expansion. Do you have schematics of your board so that I can reference the design?? Apparently, someone else thought about this too. Avanced Micro Peripherals Ltd wanted to do something like this as well, but the project got canned :-( As for the microcontroller, I might use either a transputer, FPGA, or a motorola chip (havent decided)... Ram From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 12:51:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 5, 1 08:08:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 718 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/b52fe116/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 12:29:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:55 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <200103050436.VAA13083@cu.imt.net> from "jerryjh@imt.net" at Mar 4, 1 09:47:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2655 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/96af71f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 12:38:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <006301c0a542$2bb3c480$45eab3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Mar 4, 1 11:01:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1770 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/7d970230/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 12:44:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <200103051024.KAA17810@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Mar 5, 1 10:24:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1182 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/626ca84f/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 5 14:56:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305125828.0289ca50@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <20010305205644.1070.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Eros wrote: > Yeah, let's get rid of all those stupid non-metric > measurements. Especially those pesky units of time. I mean, what idiot > came up with "seconds", "minutes" and "hours", anyway? The "hours" even > repeat twice every "day" -- how stupid is that! Hopefully this is meant humorously. The second _is_ a metric unit of time, even though minutes/hours/etc are not reckoned in decimal intervals. > Then again, maybe DEC had it right all along -- KiloCoreTicks forever! I figured you'd be a fan of "micro fortnights" (1.6 sec, the rate at which VMS asks you to enter a date and time at startup time if none can be divined from the hardware) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 15:06:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: Standalone transputer tram motherboard In-Reply-To: <3AA3F45B.4000702@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Mar 5, 1 03:17:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1740 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/30c5fa3b/attachment.ksh From sguthery at rcn.com Mon Mar 5 15:20:22 2001 From: sguthery at rcn.com (Scott Guthery) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HLL Computers Message-ID: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> I'm making a list of the processors and computers that in one way or another tried to directly execute a high-level programming language. Here's what I have so far. Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others Ada - Intel 432 Java - picoJava Modula M-Code - Lilith Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Scott ************************* Mobile-Mind, Inc ************************* Scott Guthery sguthery@mobile-mind.com Voice:+1 617 926 6888 Mobile:+1 617 230 1346 FAX:+1 617 926 1611 ******************** http://www.mobile-mind.com ******************** From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 5 15:35:04 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305125828.0289ca50@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: Well this metric stuff sounds suspiciously Frenchy and revolutionary. I'm for holding out for a pure base 12. Dollars, decimal? That's like trying to count with your ears cut off... On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Tony Eros wrote: > At 08:08 AM 3/5/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > > Well, paranoid is a bit strong, however they do seem to show a tendency > > > to regard anything that has > > > A) Originated elsewhere > > > or > > > B) Not been in use in the US for 100 years or more > > > As "unAmerican". > > > Apart from it's local 'mods', like the US mile, US ton, US gallon - we > > > used the slightly larger, Genuine, Unadulterated Imperial measures, > > > 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards to the mile, and 2,240 pounds to the ton - the > > > US system is what the British left them in the first place. > > > >If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the measurements > >for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in a > >quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? > > > >If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. > >American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. > > > >Call me a Communist. > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > Yeah, let's get rid of all those stupid non-metric > measurements. Especially those pesky units of time. I mean, what idiot > came up with "seconds", "minutes" and "hours", anyway? The "hours" even > repeat twice every "day" -- how stupid is that! > > We need a nice metric time measurement to help us get out of our silly > American technological rut and encourage more Continental innovations like > EuroDisney... :-) > > Then again, maybe DEC had it right all along -- KiloCoreTicks forever! > > -- Tony > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 15:29:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> from "Scott Guthery" at Mar 5, 1 04:20:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 871 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/6d584e59/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Mon Mar 5 15:42:07 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <000001c0a5a4$bbc2cfa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch or a dab. Things'd be a lot more interesting of we replaced all this metric nonsense with cooking measures, don't you think. I wonder what a recipe for butyl rubber would look like. The ultimate reality is that you're using the same amounts, just applying different names. Uniformity is the crusade of the mentally challenged. On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > What makes the transition to metric units more complicated is the unhandiness of > some of the units, both physically and in terms of the references to them. For > example ... a gallon is a pretty handy unit, though somewhat large, but a quart > is pretty handy. The metric unit close to that is the liter, which is also a > handy unit, though the next unit up is what? ... a decaliter? ... that's a mite > large, eh? Likewise, handy units of measure, e.g. inch, foot, yard, etc, are > not so common in the metric system.. You're always dealing with a milli-this or > a kilo-that and that often makes it hard to visualize, and, consequently, > communicate, not to mention, understand, what's being described. Once you've > gotten used to the new units it's not so bad, but making the transition is what > folks seem to resist. > > When you talk about how big something is, in the English system, you're talking > feet and inches. When you say 44 cm, not everybody can immediately envision > what you mean, but when you say "foot," since almost everybody's got one or two, > they have a rough idea. Likewise, a gram, which is a reasonable measure for > something really expensive, like cocaine, gets to be pretty unwieldy when you're > talking about how much flour goes into a loaf of bread. In Germany, I remember > dealing with a pound (half a kg) which, at 500 g is not far off the English > pound (454 g). The fact that the Germans use a "Pfund" as a handy unit suggests > that the metric units do leave something to be desired. After all it's not easy > to grasp what a gigasecond is, nor is it useful to time events in > microfortnights. > > I have to agree with the remarks about the cup, teaspoon, etc, but, again, > everybody has a notion of how much that is, and anyone who's seen Justin > Wilson's cooking program on PBS knows how easy it is to approximate that without > any measuring instruments at all. On the other hand, how much baking soda is > 13.5 g or how much milk is 100 ml? (...see how we're having to deal with large > numbers of small units?...) > > The struggle is getting past the period of adjustment. In reality, the term > "mile" refers to the 1000 paces of a marching army, so it's a thousand of > something just as the kilometer is. Evenutally folks will figure out that a > quarter teaspoon (about the smallest amount one's asked to measure when cooking) > is about a cc, (maybe) and a tablespoon is really pretty close to some number > (12 ?) of ml. Then, if a quart is 946 ml, then a cup must be on the order of > 250 ml. Not precisely, but sort-of. > > In the meantime, here we are ... > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:08 AM > Subject: Re: New here :-) > > > > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > > > > Well, paranoid is a bit strong, however they do seem to show a tendency > > > to regard anything that has > > > A) Originated elsewhere > > > or > > > B) Not been in use in the US for 100 years or more > > > As "unAmerican". > > > Apart from it's local 'mods', like the US mile, US ton, US gallon - we > > > used the slightly larger, Genuine, Unadulterated Imperial measures, > > > 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards to the mile, and 2,240 pounds to the ton - the > > > US system is what the British left them in the first place. > > > > If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the measurements > > for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in a > > quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? > > > > If I had my druthers, I'd gladly switch to metric for everything. > > American units are stupid, archaic and illogical. > > > > Call me a Communist. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 5 15:42:27 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: "Scott Guthery" "HLL Computers" (Mar 5, 16:20) References: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: <10103052142.ZM22738@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 16:20, Scott Guthery wrote: > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > so far. > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 > Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others > Ada - Intel 432 > Java - picoJava > Modula M-Code - Lilith A transputer executes Occam more-or-less directly. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 5 15:39:43 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: New here :-)" (Mar 5, 18:51) References: Message-ID: <10103052139.ZM22726@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 18:51, Tony Duell wrote: > > If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the measurements > > for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in a > > quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? > > I knew the HP49G was useful for something :-). It has all those units in > the unit management system.. > > According to that machine : > > 1 cup = 16 tablespoons > > 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons Except that, traditionally, there are two teaspoons in a dessertspoon and two dessertspoons in a tablespoon. It doesn't add up :-) > 1 cup = 8 fluid ounces > > 1 quart = 4 cups > > 1 cup = 236.5882365 ml And those are U.S. measures, I think. A cup is half a pint; an imperial pint is 20 fluid ounces, not 16. An imperial quart = 2 imperial pints = 1.136523 litres (1136 ml); 4 U.S. cups = 946 ml. A tablespoon is supposedly 15ml (mine aren't but that's another story :-)) So 16 tbsp (1 U.S. cup) would be 240ml. Close enough for cookery, I suppose. And of course that only applies to liquid measure. When you're measuring dry materials, you're supposed to use a rounded (not heaped! that's different) spoonful -- an allowance for the hypothetical meniscus, of course. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Mar 5 15:48:42 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) (increasingly OT) In-Reply-To: <20010305205644.1070.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305125828.0289ca50@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305164151.06783a30@mail.njd.concentric.com> >Hopefully this is meant humorously. The second _is_ a metric unit >of time, even though minutes/hours/etc are not reckoned in decimal >intervals. > Yep, I was kidding (though I am a fan of traditional American weights and measures.) Quick question -- when you say that the second is a metric unit of time, doesn't that just mean some metric governing body has adopted it as an official unit of time, even though it's non-conforming? Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if there ever was an attempt to apply the metric system to time? -- Tony From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 5 16:19:16 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010305161916.00888150@ubanproductions.com> How about the BBN C/60 ? --tom At 04:20 PM 3/5/01 -0500, you wrote: >I'm making a list of the processors and computers >that in one way or another tried to directly execute >a high-level programming language. Here's what I have >so far. > >Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 >Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq >Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others >Ada - Intel 432 >Java - picoJava >Modula M-Code - Lilith > >Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance. > >Cheers, Scott > >************************* Mobile-Mind, Inc ************************* >Scott Guthery sguthery@mobile-mind.com >Voice:+1 617 926 6888 Mobile:+1 617 230 1346 FAX:+1 617 926 1611 >******************** http://www.mobile-mind.com ******************** > > > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Mar 5 16:19:57 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: 'Metric' Time (was: New Here) Message-ID: <20010305.161957.-468291.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:56:44 -0800 (PST) Ethan Dicks writes: > --- Tony Eros wrote: > > Yeah, let's get rid of all those stupid non-metric > > measurements. Especially those pesky units of time. I mean, what > idiot > > came up with "seconds", "minutes" and "hours", anyway? The > "hours" even > > repeat twice every "day" -- how stupid is that! > > Hopefully this is meant humorously. The second _is_ a metric unit > of time, even though minutes/hours/etc are not reckoned in decimal > intervals. Actually, this idea of 'metric' time is nothing new. There exists watches from the late 18th and early 19th centuries, whose dials read *ten* hours, divided up into 100 minutes of 100 seconds each. Most of these came from France, as a government decree made them necessary, as per this quote from: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rkeulen/watch/metric.html "During the Revolution, the French tried to reenforce the 12 months/ 360 days - year, using a decimal timescale, adding 5 days of festivities at the end of the year. A day consisted of 10 hours of 100 minutes. Minutes were devided in 100 seconds. 10 days made a "week", called a "dekade". There were 30 days in a month. The republican calendar was not a succes and lasted only from 1793 till 1805." It appears that 'metric' timekeepers (and timekeeping) were unpopular even in their own day. (Aren't you glad?) OB Classic (to keep this even remotely n topic): The Jacquard Loom was developed at the end of this period, the worlds first programable piece of manufacturing equipment. (Perhaps those 9-day work-dekades were beginning to piss him off . . . .). ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 5 16:17:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <10103052139.ZM22726@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 5, 1 09:39:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1328 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010305/200f7521/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 5 16:28:28 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <000001c0a5a4$bbc2cfa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AA4130C.C1643E0B@internet1.net> That's exactly one of the reasons I so dislike the metric system. It seems to go from units that are too small to units that are too big. Plus, they don't mean a whole lot to me, which I admit is a matter of adjustment. Since I have been raised with American measurements, I don't think I would ever totally become accustomed to the metric system at the same level. Besides, I am an American, not a "fill in your favorite non-American here". The whole world doesn't have to use the same units, just like we don't all have to like the same old computers. If I were to use a metric system, I would rather use "SI" units. It is metric based, but a little different than generic "metric". It has been long enough since I had Physics, that I can't remember why, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > What makes the transition to metric units more complicated is the unhandiness of > some of the units, both physically and in terms of the references to them. From elvey at hal.com Mon Mar 5 16:28:37 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: Hi There were several Forth machines made. I have a Delta board made by Silicon Composers that use a NC4000 chip. There are several other chips out there that are either directly intetended for Forth or have enhanced instructions to improve threading speed ( such as the Super 8 ). I've added things to my machine over the years. I've used old XT boards to have 2 floppies and an old 5 Meg hard drive. Of course, I've had to rewrite code to access these things because the NC4000 is in no way compatable with Intels machines. Its is a fun project. With the hard drive, I can completely recompile a new image for the EPROMs in about 15 secs. Dwight On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Scott Guthery wrote: > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > so far. > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 > Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others > Ada - Intel 432 > Java - picoJava > Modula M-Code - Lilith > > Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, Scott > > ************************* Mobile-Mind, Inc ************************* > Scott Guthery sguthery@mobile-mind.com > Voice:+1 617 926 6888 Mobile:+1 617 230 1346 FAX:+1 617 926 1611 > ******************** http://www.mobile-mind.com ******************** > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Mar 5 16:35:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HLL Computers Message-ID: <002101c0a5c5$7509c9d0$1c779a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> >> I'm making a list of the processors and computers >> that in one way or another tried to directly execute >> a high-level programming language. Here's what I have >> so far. >> >> Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 CISIC machine, ALGOL compiles to efficiently. >> Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq WD runs P-code in hardware (microcode, yet another layer) but Pcode is not Pascal. >> Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others >> Ada - Intel 432 Fancy CISIC machine optimized for OOP. > >Are you sure? It may well have been designed/optimised to run ada I'm with you Tony. None of those machine ran HLL code directly. As Tony pointed out they were designed to run the optimized COMPILED code not the language directly. Lisp And Forth primitives however are suitable for direct implmentation but, the human readable versions would still be compiled. Allison From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 5 16:55:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <10103052139.ZM22726@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons > Except that, traditionally, there are two teaspoons in a dessertspoon and > two dessertspoons in a tablespoon. It doesn't add up :-) Would that have anything to do with the British culinary reputation? > And those are U.S. measures, I think. A cup is half a pint; an imperial > pint is 20 fluid ounces, not 16. An imperial quart = 2 imperial pints = > 1.136523 litres (1136 ml); 4 U.S. cups = 946 ml. Where does "A pint is a pound the world around" apply and/or originate? From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Mar 5 16:53:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) Message-ID: <002401c0a5c7$ca9c9bf0$1c779a8d@ajp166> >> The howls of protest when anything new is metricated can probably be heard >> clear across the pond! Mind you, prosecuting a greengrocer for displaying >> his weights in pounds (as happend recently) was a bit over the top.... >> I've been metric since I was at school (late 50's - early '60s) so I can >> cope with either. My old 386 tower weighs about 1 1/2 stone.... > >I have no problems with either. There are plenty of approximate >conversions for everyday use, like : > >1 foot ~= 30cm (and FWIW, ~= 1 light-nanosecond ;-)), so "I've estimated >I need just over 9 feet of cable, so if I buy 3 metres it'll be enough) ;) Me, I could care less. I have mostly inch/pound instruments but metric are equally handy. Electronics is if anything biased to metric. I'm rather used to 10 meter band rather than the 10.9yard. Conversions are less the problem for the metric world. It still bugs me to convert Foot/pounds to Inch/oz. >Over here, second-hand imperial measuring tools, like micrometers, are >often a lot cheaper than metric ones. I have no problem using either, and >would rather save money (or spend the same money and get a better tool). Good tools transcend the units they measure. Allison From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 5 17:12:44 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: Sinclair Toaster Message-ID: <005f01c0a5c9$c9ef0bf0$9c794ed8@DOMAIN> I had a fun fleamarket run last weekend and for $17 total... First picked up an unbuilt and complete Sinclair Black Watch Kit... It was difficult retaining the drool while fishing out the $2... It's a pretty little kit http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/DW2.jpg http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/DW1.jpg (entire kit) here's someone's jpg of the nonkit version that I found on the net http://members.spree.com/mrcalc/photos/sinclair.jpg There's a Sinclair ic (kx8508 Sinclair) that's got a datecode of '75 but I dont remember ever seeing the watch advertised on this side-o-the-pond... I guess kit's safe as long as my other LED holds out. ;) Then I found a Video Toaster 4000 3.0/40 Amiga 2000 with a GVP scsi/hd, and a few DPS (Digital Processing Systems) boards in it. It boots fine into workbench and into toaster but I haven't hooked up any video sources to it yet. It's wonderful to finally have Workbench on a harddisk. I haven't found much on the DPS cards yet though... I useta use a DPS PAR board in a pc with 3dstudio but I'm guessing these are tbc video capture/player boards. Does anyone have info on the: 1. DPS, 743-860, PTF Rev 2 2. DPS-560, 743-800 WFV Rev 3 Thanks - Mike From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 5 17:14:35 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA4130C.C1643E0B@internet1.net> References: <000001c0a5a4$bbc2cfa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AA4130C.C1643E0B@internet1.net> Message-ID: >That's exactly one of the reasons I so dislike the metric system. It >seems to go from units that are too small to units that are too big. >Plus, they don't mean a whole lot to me, which I admit is a matter of >adjustment. Since I have been raised with American measurements, I >don't think I would ever totally become accustomed to the metric system >at the same level. At least the U.S. monetary system is pretty logical and appears to have been well thought out. Monetary systems in other parts of the world are horrendous when it comes to doing the conversions, not to mention some of them just plain don't make sense at all. Back to the metric system though, the current generation of kids are far more comfortable with it. They've been taught it from day one, unlike those of use who went through school in the 1970's and before. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From gregorym at cadvision.com Mon Mar 5 17:13:26 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <009901c0a5c9$e26d5740$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: Re: New here :-) > > And those are U.S. measures, I think. A cup is half a pint; an imperial > > pint is 20 fluid ounces, not 16. An imperial quart = 2 imperial pints = > > 1.136523 litres (1136 ml); 4 U.S. cups = 946 ml. > > Where does "A pint is a pound the world around" apply and/or originate? > Using an appaling mishmash of measurement systems, dubious logic, and half-remembered facts: 1 pint ~= 500 millilitres and 1 milliLitre of water weighs 1 gram. So, 1 pint ~= 500 grams, and 454 grams = 1 pound, so postulate that a pint of water might weigh 1 pound. Or, a "metric pound", commonly used in Germany is 500 grams. So (in Germany at least), a pint is a (metric) pound. Cheers, Mark. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Mar 5 17:19:34 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: Emulex UC14 References: Message-ID: <3AA41F06.F0BE8CEF@heathers.stdio.com> Zane, Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, neither boards are similar. It is possible that the dips might be the same though. Looks like a session of "switch and boot" to decipher the adress scheme. Its worth it considering how hard it is to find a Unibus SCSI card. BTW its nice to talk to you again. I've been away for a while. Brian. "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >Does anyone have or know where I can find an info sheet on a Emulex UC14 > >Unibus SCSI controller? I was lucky enough to acquire one of these guys > >in a 11/750 that I just received. It has three rows of dips and a couple > >of jumper blocks to set. I'm sure it emulates a MSCP device but I need > >to know how to set the address. > > > >Thanks, > >Brian. > > Would some of the info on the UC07/08 be of help? > > ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/emulex_uc07_08/ > > I've also got a copy of the UC17 manual that was on the RSX BBS site if > that would help I can email you a copy. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Mar 5 17:39:24 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) (increasingly OT) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305164151.06783a30@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Tony Eros wrote: > Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if there ever was an attempt to > apply the metric system to time? I suspect you mean decimalisation (where everything is a some multiple of ten of the base unit). I believe that it was agreed that the world should eventually move to a decimal system of time measurement at the International Meridian Conference in 1884. Unfortunately most humans still use complex calendar systems loosely based on the speed of rotation of the Earth, the time taken for the Earth to orbit around the Sun, and the time taken for the Moon to orbit around the Earth. On the other hand, computers commonly use a digital time system internally (for example the number of seconds since the Unix epoch), which can be much more easily converted to decimal than to the complicated calendar systems that we use. I recently read "A Deepness in the Sky" by Vernor Vinge, which was interesting in that the people in it measured everything in units of seconds, Ksecs, and Msecs. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Mar 5 17:35:20 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: P-code isn't a high level language. It's the assembly language of the WD Pascal Microengine, Pascal was the high level language and it was Compiled into P-code (as one target architecture). clint PS Forth? On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Scott Guthery wrote: > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > so far. > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 > Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others > Ada - Intel 432 > Java - picoJava > Modula M-Code - Lilith > > Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, Scott > > ************************* Mobile-Mind, Inc ************************* > Scott Guthery sguthery@mobile-mind.com > Voice:+1 617 926 6888 Mobile:+1 617 230 1346 FAX:+1 617 926 1611 > ******************** http://www.mobile-mind.com ******************** > > > From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 16:33:13 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: OT! Re: New here :-) (& OT :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Jason McBrien wrote: > switching, as long as we still use Imperial for certain things ( I REFUSE to > go 100 Kilometers per hour, I will always go 60 MPH, and I'll run two miles I refuse to drive 100KMH too. 160KMH is more like it ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 16:33:30 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA39CCF.20360.4C63969@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > The PCjr bricks aren't too uncommon so I'll wait and I'm sure one > will turn up. My time is better used fixing some of my other non- > working machines. In any case thanks for the details of the > construction. It'll go in my archives for future use. I see them in thrift stores a lot. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Mar 5 17:41:49 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) (Getting slightly back OnT) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010305164151.06783a30@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: PicoSecond, NanoSecond, MicroSecond (On Topic! Go VAX!), etc... The basic problem is the earth doesn't rotate in 100,000 Seconds/ (time from sunup to sunup)... It's more like 84000 +/- a fudge factor that gets applied every four years... Besides, you are confusing metric with powers of ten... All the metric system did was create new measures for the same things and try to force everyone to use it... Commie B*****ds... :) :) :) :) clint PS the :) :) :) :) means I'm joking... On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Tony Eros wrote: > > >Hopefully this is meant humorously. The second _is_ a metric unit > >of time, even though minutes/hours/etc are not reckoned in decimal > >intervals. > > > > Yep, I was kidding (though I am a fan of traditional American weights and > measures.) Quick question -- when you say that the second is a metric unit > of time, doesn't that just mean some metric governing body has adopted it > as an official unit of time, even though it's non-conforming? > > Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if there ever was an attempt to > apply the metric system to time? > > -- Tony > > > From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 16:37:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > This is the second reason I've found for having an HP handheld in the > kitchen (the first was that I used my HP71B + HP3421 data logger to > measure the temperature in the oven when I replaced and recalibrated > the thermostat recently...) I just keep an old Toshiba laptop (old = Pentium 120 :) connected to the internet in my kitchen. Granted, I can't recalibrate the temperature in my oven but I can use it to order groceries, and I could use it to look up the occasional recipe, but since I'm such a phenomenal cook I don't use it for that ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 16:40:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Scott Guthery wrote: > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others Xerox 1101 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 5 16:47:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > When you consider that most recipies include such reproducable > standards as '1 egg' or 'a pinch of salt', you come to realise that > measuring _anything_ accurately is probably a total waste of time :-) This is especially true with cooking. You're allowed to be a bit imprecise thanks to the flexibilities of peoples' tastes :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 5 18:22:16 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: New here :-) Message-ID: Uhh, why are they being called "American" units? It's the English system of measurement, even if America is (or is close to being) its last user.. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 5 18:20:56 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010305074019.0295b220@pc> References: <200103050436.VAA13083@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: >a learning lab or museum to save *everything*? Isn't some >software or hardware more valuable than others? The problem is almost everyone is a poor judge of what has value in 5, 10, 20 years. Goals and requirements of a non powered museum, which I frankly think is NUTS for computers, are very different from the sort of serious spares etc. program a running museum would need. The fair way, we all compete openly for what we want. People need to be educated on museum practices and requirements, but I suggest "most" enthusiasts make good pre-museum holding areas. Most of us are going to not only preserve, but often repair and/or locate spares for a nice toy, and when we are done we look first to the best place for it to go to. From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 5 18:45:57 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons > > Except that, traditionally, there are two teaspoons in a dessertspoon and > > two dessertspoons in a tablespoon. It doesn't add up :-) > > Would that have anything to do with the British culinary reputation? > > > And those are U.S. measures, I think. A cup is half a pint; an imperial > > pint is 20 fluid ounces, not 16. An imperial quart = 2 imperial pints = > > 1.136523 litres (1136 ml); 4 U.S. cups = 946 ml. > > Where does "A pint is a pound the world around" apply and/or originate? Doubtless in a pub in Britain! Though, I fear the financial relationship need a bit of updating :( - don From mark_k at iname.com Mon Mar 5 18:47:39 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: NeXT MO disks In-Reply-To: <200103010235.UAA15796@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi, Replying to a couple of messages here... On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 Jerome Fine wrote: >> I took a look at the Pinnacle drive today and it is a >> Pinnacle Micro Sierra Optical Hard Drive with a 1.3gig capacity on >> 5-1/4" removable media. Supposedly it is a double-sided cartridge >> capable of holding 650Mb per side. It appears to be a standard SCSI >> drive, but unfortunately I do not have any of the disks for it. > > As far as I know (or at least this is what I have always been told), the > MO drives which can use the larger capacity (NOT larger in physical > dimensions) media are also backward compatible with the lower > capacity media for both read and write at least downward one step. Yes, the only exception I know of being the Pinnacle Micro Vertex 2.6GB drive. Here's a summary of drive compatibility. 1x means 600 & 650MB, 2x means 1.2/1.3GB, 4x means 2.3/2.6GB, 8x means 4.1/4.8/5.2GB and 14x means 8.6/9.1GB. Maxoptix -------- Basically any Maxoptix drive can read and write to all previous generations of media, plus Maxoptix-specific 1GB disks (possibly read-only) and maybe 1.7/2.0GB disks. Sony ---- 2x drives (SMO-F521, SMO-F531) can read and write 1x and 2x media. All 4x, 8x and 14x drives can read all previous capacities. Most 4x drives (SMO-F541, SMO-F544) can write to 2x and 4x media. They cannot write to 1x. However, there is a model which *can* write to 1x media, the SMO-F541/SD. Most 8x drives (SMO-F551) can write to 4x and 8x media. There are models which can write to 2x (SMO-F551/DD) and 1x & 2x (SMO-F551/SD). The 14x drive (SMO-F561) can write to 4x, 8x, and 14x media. Pinnacle Micro -------------- The 2x Sierra drive can read and write to 1x and 2x media. The 4x Vertex drive can only read and write to 4x media. The reason for this is that Vertex drives were Apex drives which did not meet the spec for 4.6GB operation. The 4.6GB Apex drive can read and write 4.2/4.6GB and 4x media. It is not compatible with 1x or 2x media. > There are now 5 GByte media and these drives can still read the > 650 MByte original media for 5 1/4" drives, but are not able to > write to the original media. (One version of the Sony 5.2GB drive can write to all older media, as can all Maxoptix 5.2GB drives.) Sony recently introduced 9.1GB drives and media, see http://www.sony-cp.com/ There are actually full technical and SCSI spec manuals for the new SMO-F561 drive on the Sony web site, which makes a very welcome change. The SMO-F561 supports an "emulation mode", whereby 9.1GB disks (whose physical sector size is 4K) appear to have 512-byte or 1024-byte sectors. So even computers that require 512-byte sectors can use the higher capacity disks. Of course write performance will be relatively poor when using emulated sectors. > NOTE: The marketing hype produced by the drive manufactures > always stated (from what I can remember) that an MO drive had > a capacity equal the the capacity of the media rather than what the > drive could read on just one side of the media before it was flipped. Yes, though as far as marketing disks (as opposed to drives) is concerned that is usual. It's similar to audio cassettes (C60, C90). At least it's better than the stupid "assuming 2x compression" capacity figures quoted for tape drives. On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 Jeff Hellige wrote: > Has me thinking about trying to put the Pinnacle to good use, if it is > functional. It would be easy enough to use it with my Mac's, but I wonder > how hard it would be to get it working with the NeXT. The drive should appear as a direct access removable device on the SCSI bus. There may be a jumper to make it appear non-removable, if the NeXT does not like removable media. The NeXT native filesystem probably needs 512-byte sectors, so try using it with a 600MB or 1.2GB disk first. Using, say, tar to write directly to the drive may work with 650MB or 1.3GB disks. If removable media support is poor or non-existent on the NeXT, boot up with a disk in the drive. Then treat it like a hard disk, use the normal partitioning and formatting tools. Maybe you will be able to eject the disk after unmounting any partitions, then remount the partitions after inserting another disk. > I'm not sure about the ZIP disks, but somewhat related and > on-topic is a drive I used to have for the Atari ST. It was made by > Supra and was basically a 10meg 5-1/4" floppy. The head tracking was Interesting. Talking of wierd floppies... I saw an ad from 1983 for a drive which used a magazine of six 1.2MB 5.25" floppies. Does anyone know which company made that? -- Mark From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Mar 5 18:50:36 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <009901c0a5c9$e26d5740$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <00d801c0a5d7$753da5e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:43 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > Using an appaling mishmash of measurement systems, dubious logic, and > half-remembered facts: > > 1 pint ~= 500 millilitres and 1 milliLitre of water weighs 1 gram. > So, 1 pint ~= 500 grams, and 454 grams = 1 pound, so postulate that a pint > of water might weigh 1 pound. I think you will find that metric measures are co-related at their basic unit levels. Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is where the basic units came from. I seem to recall that a metre is 1 millionth of the circumference of the Earth at the equator, or perhaps at the meridian of Paris. (Napoleon started this I think). Something like that anyway. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Mar 5 18:55:00 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: OT! Re: New here :-) (& OT :) References: Message-ID: <00f001c0a5d8$12d76980$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:03 AM Subject: OT! Re: New here :-) (& OT :) > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Jason McBrien wrote: > > > switching, as long as we still use Imperial for certain things ( I REFUSE to > > go 100 Kilometers per hour, I will always go 60 MPH, and I'll run two miles > > I refuse to drive 100KMH too. 160KMH is more like it ;) Actually, 100Kmh is 62.1mph, well, in our miles anyway ;^) The local limit on the open road is 100K but most roads are 'de-restricted' which means the limit is 110Km/H or around 68mph. cheers Geoff From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 5 19:19:21 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:59 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <10103052139.ZM22726@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <001901c0a5db$791034e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've never actually encountered a table spoon that measures a "tablespoon." 3:1 seems to be the ratio of teaspoons to tablespoons, yet I've never used a "teaspoon" three of which would fill a real tablespoon, though I guess the measures work out that way. The purpose of the recipe is to provide a place to start ... ... that's all one can hope for, I guess. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: Re: New here :-) > On Mar 5, 18:51, Tony Duell wrote: > > > If you think all that's bad, I still haven't figured out the > measurements > > > for cooking...like how many tablespoons in a cup, and how many cups in > a > > > quart and all that nonsense. Who came up with this crap anyway? > > > > I knew the HP49G was useful for something :-). It has all those units in > > the unit management system.. > > > > According to that machine : > > > > 1 cup = 16 tablespoons > > > > 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons > > Except that, traditionally, there are two teaspoons in a dessertspoon and > two dessertspoons in a tablespoon. It doesn't add up :-) > > > 1 cup = 8 fluid ounces > > > > 1 quart = 4 cups > > > > 1 cup = 236.5882365 ml > > And those are U.S. measures, I think. A cup is half a pint; an imperial > pint is 20 fluid ounces, not 16. An imperial quart = 2 imperial pints = > 1.136523 litres (1136 ml); 4 U.S. cups = 946 ml. > > A tablespoon is supposedly 15ml (mine aren't but that's another story :-)) > So 16 tbsp (1 U.S. cup) would be 240ml. Close enough for cookery, I > suppose. > > And of course that only applies to liquid measure. When you're measuring > dry materials, you're supposed to use a rounded (not heaped! that's > different) spoonful -- an allowance for the hypothetical meniscus, of > course. > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 5 19:22:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <002301c0a5db$f627d3c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Nothing drove that point home for me more than when I found that if I left something other than flour, yeast, or water, out of my bread recipe, it really didn't matter much. Moreover, if I put in an extra cupp of flour, or inadvertently left one out, it didn't matter either. It still produced bread, and the normal result wasn't sufficiently reproducible to point up any difference between the amounts either... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:17 PM Subject: Re: New here :-) > > > I knew the HP49G was useful for something :-). It has all those units in > > ml. Close enough for cookery, I suppose. > > When you consider that most recipies include such reproducable standards > as '1 egg' or 'a pinch of salt', you come to realise that measuring > _anything_ accurately is probably a total waste of time :-) > > -tony > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 5 19:40:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: NeXT MO disks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Has me thinking about trying to put the Pinnacle to good use, if it is >> functional. It would be easy enough to use it with my Mac's, but I wonder >> how hard it would be to get it working with the NeXT. > >The drive should appear as a direct access removable device on the SCSI bus. >There may be a jumper to make it appear non-removable, if the NeXT does not >like removable media. > >The NeXT native filesystem probably needs 512-byte sectors, so try using it >with a 600MB or 1.2GB disk first. Using, say, tar to write directly to >the drive may work with 650MB or 1.3GB disks. I actually found a couple of Sony EDM-1DA1 MO disks with 512-byte sectors and are formatted out to approximately 281meg/side. Connected to 3 different Mac's, they will all read the disks fine but they all error out when I attempt to reformat the disks, either using the Pinnacle-supplied software or using FWB HDtoolbox. This version of HDtoolbox states that it supports this drive too. The drive acts like thier's a SCSI-bus problem at times but changing terminators and such have had no effect on it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 5 19:58:12 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Mar 5, 1 02:37:02 pm" Message-ID: <200103060158.RAA11308@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I just keep an old Toshiba laptop (old = Pentium 120 :) connected to the > internet in my kitchen. Granted, I can't recalibrate the temperature in > my oven but I can use it to order groceries, and I could use it to look up > the occasional recipe, but since I'm such a phenomenal cook I don't use it > for that ;) A friend of mine has a Wyse terminal in the kitchen with a *very* long connector to his Linux server in the back bedroom. In the kitchen he and/or his wife log on as 'kitchen' and Lynx pops up with their online recipe book. Clever. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ----- From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 5 20:33:09 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <3AA44C65.2120AA8E@internet1.net> The English don't use it, and a lot of there units were different than ours anyway. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Will Jennings wrote: > > Uhh, why are they being called "American" units? It's the English system of > measurement, even if America is (or is close to being) its last user.. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 5 19:33:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <000001c0a5a4$bbc2cfa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AA4130C.C1643E0B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000001c0a5e6$08f048c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, maybe it would work better, but I don't recall SI units being any more easy to visualize than the "normal" metrics. It's still easier, IMHO, to envision an inch as the width of a man's thumb, or a foot as what it sounds like, or a cubit as the length from the tip of the middle finger to the point of the elbow than it is to relate to a meter, which was originally a totally arbitrary length, and the various decimal portions thereof. It's easier to think of a mile, the distance covered by a thousand left footprints of a marching army, than to contemplate a thousand meters (whatever that is) in spite of the fact I know, for sure, that the meter is 39.37 of those thumb-widths, or finger-segment lengths, or whatever, and, by simple virtue of its name, I can easily envison roughly what's meant when someone says to use a cup of tomato sauce, since I drink my coffee from a cup, even though the cup I use holds 16 fl. oz. I wouldn't pretend that the English systems of measures is "better" in any sense, but I do believe that since it's based on things everyday people deal with every day, it's a bit easier to relate to, hence use for everyday things. It just makes more sense to visualize one of something I see every day, than to contemplate so many milli-this's or kilo-that's. It's just human, and it's human nature that resists the conversion to metric units. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: Re: New here :-) > That's exactly one of the reasons I so dislike the metric system. It > seems to go from units that are too small to units that are too big. > Plus, they don't mean a whole lot to me, which I admit is a matter of > adjustment. Since I have been raised with American measurements, I > don't think I would ever totally become accustomed to the metric system > at the same level. > > Besides, I am an American, not a "fill in your favorite non-American > here". The whole world doesn't have to use the same units, just like we > don't all have to like the same old computers. > > If I were to use a metric system, I would rather use "SI" units. It is > metric based, but a little different than generic "metric". It has been > long enough since I had Physics, that I can't remember why, However. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > What makes the transition to metric units more complicated is the unhandiness of > > some of the units, both physically and in terms of the references to them. > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Mar 5 21:05:12 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Atten: Bruce Lane In-Reply-To: <3AA3DA9D.3C3991A9@rain.org> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010305190512.009a6a60@192.168.42.129> At 10:27 05-03-2001 -0800, Marvin (a-t) rain.org wrote: >Sorry for the bandwidth here. Bruce, I emailed you about Codex equipment but >the email just bounced back to me after 5 days. Hmm? Interesting... Ok... my backup address is wd6eos (a-t) hamsnet.net. Could you send me the bounce message there, and your reply, so I can figure out what went astray? Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Mar 5 21:07:18 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Paging: John Lawson Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010305190718.009bad40@192.168.42.129> John, it's obvious to me that either panix.com's mail system is configured weird, or there's something strange about my firewall. It keeps treating panix connection attempts as an SMTP attack, for some strange reason. Please contact me at my backup address: wd6eos (a-t) hamsnet.net Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 5 21:09:06 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping In-Reply-To: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping (Bill Dawson) References: <000001c0653b$16532f00$f79e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <15012.21714.714937.627030@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hmm...the person at the contact number said this messages is *months* old, and those terminals are long gone. -Dave McGuire On December 13, Bill Dawson wrote: > HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping, pickup > preferred. > > 7 are located in Philadelphia, PA and 7 are in Tampa, FL. All are still > operational and include the original boxes. > > Please contact Lisa Flores at Abtech Systems by phone or email to make > arrangements: > > (800)474-7397 (Carlsbad, CA) or lisax.flores@xabtechsys.com (remove the > x's) > > Arrangements should be made ASAP. There may be much more HP equipment > available in the future for free if this goes well. Abtech has HP and > Sun equipment, along with other things such as Netservers, PC's and > peripherals, etc. that are not worth shipping back to Carlsbad and may > become available to listmembers in the future. > > > Bill From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 5 21:29:19 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <000001c0a5a4$bbc2cfa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AA4130C.C1643E0B@internet1.net> <000001c0a5e6$08f048c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AA4598F.6B792029@internet1.net> I didn't mean to imply that SI was any easier to visualize. I just recall comparing the different systems in Physics, and I actually using SI. SI just seemed better, but I don't recall why. It seems to me that SI doesn't use the centimeter, if I recall. In Physics we weren't measuring anything common, I admit. In that case, it doesn't really matter what units you use, from a visualization standpoint. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Well, maybe it would work better, but I don't recall SI units being any more > easy to visualize than the "normal" metrics. > > It's still easier, IMHO, to envision an inch as the width of a man's thumb, or a > foot as what it sounds like, or a cubit as the length from the tip of the middle > finger to the point of the elbow than it is to relate to a meter, which was > originally a totally arbitrary length, and the various decimal portions thereof. > It's easier to think of a mile, the distance covered by a thousand left > footprints of a marching army, than to contemplate a thousand meters (whatever > that is) in spite of the fact I know, for sure, that the meter is 39.37 of those > thumb-widths, or finger-segment lengths, or whatever, and, by simple virtue of > its name, I can easily envison roughly what's meant when someone says to use a > cup of tomato sauce, since I drink my coffee from a cup, even though the cup I > use holds 16 fl. oz. > > I wouldn't pretend that the English systems of measures is "better" in any > sense, but I do believe that since it's based on things everyday people deal > with every day, it's a bit easier to relate to, hence use for everyday things. > It just makes more sense to visualize one of something I see every day, than to > contemplate so many milli-this's or kilo-that's. It's just human, and it's > human nature that resists the conversion to metric units. > > Dick From ernestls at home.com Mon Mar 5 23:11:50 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: WTB: old Gorilla Banana printer In-Reply-To: <3AA4598F.6B792029@internet1.net> Message-ID: I'm looking for one of those old Gorilla Banana dot matrix printers. The early one, not the newer model built for the Atari, etc. I believe that there was an MPI printer that looked the same, except for the name, and one of those will do also. If anyone has one to sell, let me know. Thanks. Ernest From leec at slip.net Mon Mar 5 23:58:52 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: APL - MCM70 from the Micro-Computer Machines. For the mid-70s this was a truly amazing machine. - Dimensions were about 6"x14"x24" - microcoded APL implementation - dual casette tape drives for mass storage - single line 20(?) character display - full APL implementation MCM released several hardware based APL machines in the mid-70s. It can be argued that a microprogrammed language implementation is not direct hardware execution, but close enough for me. >From a microprogramable archiectures class I took in the late 70s here's a list of microprogrammable architectures: B1700 Microdata 3200 Interdata 8/32 Nanodata QM-1 CDC 5600 Digital Scientific META4 Varian 73 Intel 3000 HP21MX The above list is from "Microprogrammable Computer Architectures" by Salisbury (1976). The IBM 5100 ran APL and BASIC, but I know it did not implement APL in microcode, don't know about BASIC. "Computers in the 1980s" by Turn (1974) also has a brief, but interesting, take on HLL hardware. Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one in on display at the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Scott Guthery > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:20 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: HLL Computers > > > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > so far. > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 > Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others > Ada - Intel 432 > Java - picoJava > Modula M-Code - Lilith > > Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. > > Thanks in advance. > > Cheers, Scott > > ************************* Mobile-Mind, Inc ************************* > Scott Guthery sguthery@mobile-mind.com > Voice:+1 617 926 6888 Mobile:+1 617 230 1346 FAX:+1 617 926 1611 > ******************** http://www.mobile-mind.com ******************** > > From leec at slip.net Tue Mar 6 00:24:02 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Packaging service recommendations? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010303211151.00b222b0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Jim et al, I've used a "Blanket" or "wrapping" service offered by Allied to move 2 PDP-11s from Canada to the Bay Area. The Allied agent on the Vancouver end did a great job of packing the system and it arrived in excellent condition, unfortunately the agent on this end was endlessly confused by that pesky "customs thing". Using a wrapping service cost me about 4 times what I paid for the systems. I thought about flying to Vancouver, loading the systems into a U-Haul, and driving them to the Bay Area. However, we were expecting a new baby, were moving into a new house, and we were in the middle of a major SW release at work. So I just off-loaded the problem, and in retrospect was the right, but expensive, thing to do. If you have the time, I'd pick them up myself. Portland is not that far from the Bay Area. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jim Battle > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 9:40 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Packaging service recommendations? > > > I know a couple weeks back there was a thread where everybody took a turn > describing what horrors a particular shipper had committed to something > they sent. I didn't pay much attention to it then, but perhaps I should > have. At any rate, my question is somewhat different. > > I've been collecting computers for only two years, but at the top of my > wish list has been to get a Wang 2200, one of the older models. > It is the > machine I learned to program on, and it left a strong impression. My > coding style still suffers because of it. :-) > > Well, I finally found somebody who will ship me one for the cost of > shipping. It is in Portland, OR, and I'm in San Jose, CA. The estimated > weight is 200-300 pounds including accessories and docs. [ The early > 2200's had a power supply box, a suitcase-sized box that > contained the TTL > CPU, then a separate keyboard/monitor. The setup I'm hoping to get also > has three external tape drives and a modified selectric as a > printing device. ] > > Because the guy who has it is essentially giving it away, I want > to make it > as easy for him as possible, and at the same time I want to get it packed > really well because I don't want anything to happen to it. I guess I'm > afraid that he'd just put it in a cardboard box stuffed with newspapers. > > A scan through the yellow pages under "Packaging Materials" and > "Packaging > Services" showed quite a few people who package things for a price, but > I've never used one. Does anybody have any tips on how to choose > one? Should I insist on a wood crate, or foam-fill, or something else? > > As another data point, I tried the rate estimator on FedEx and it > wouldn't > accept a box that weighed 300 lbs. I tried 100 lbs and it said > $50, which > seems quite reasonable to me. So as another data point, I'd have > to split > the lot into two or three crates in order to send it. > > Thanks for any experience you can share. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 6 00:48:03 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers Message-ID: FYI, all Varian V70 series machines are microcoded... that's the main difference between them and the Varian 620's... That and they have more registers, and I think my dad said semiconductor memory too, but that could be incorrect. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 6 01:03:26 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Vermin Message-ID: Uhh, I think I'll pass on Australia, thanks!!! But now I'm more justified in clobbering every spider I see in the house/garage/basement; some of them I literally have no clue what they are.. and the other night I went to take my bath and there was a spider in my bathroom that was quite odd, particularly after applying my accounting textbook to it. I kill all other insects I find indoors too, apart from crickets, so don't think I hate spiders.. I really don't, I just have lots of valuable things are that are vulnerable to insect damage, not to mention that I'm often barefoot, and have bad luck to boot. For example, when I brought home my Commodore 128 from my uncle's house, I also brought home 4 brown recluses... I practically tossed the things across the room. The worst I've experienced, however, has to be the Sinclair ZX81 I got, which, when opened, was full of *live* cockroaches! BARF! That went straight to the dumpster, after the Denver cockroach massacre... My worst non-computer experience was a 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2+2 I helped my friend restore.. mice had inhabited it for 15+ years.. Whole car reeked of mouse piss.. (Yes I was wearing a mask, ugh). They had eaten the inside of the interior, so after taking out the seats, there was mouse shizzat and car interior shreds 5 inches deep, and since the trunk latch was busted and drilling it out failed, guess who got to crawl through the hole in the frame thats behind the backseat into the truck? Me of course! I don't think I've ever been so glad to leave a place. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Mar 6 01:17:34 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: "Lee Courtney"'s message of "Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:58:52 -0800" References: Message-ID: <200103060717.f267HYj81962@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Lee Courtney" wrote: > "Computers in the 1980s" by Turn (1974) also has a brief, but interesting, > take on HLL hardware. There are another couple of books I would recommend Scott Guthery track down: "Advances in Computer Architecture" by Glenford J. Myers. There are at least two editions of this book (both published by Wiley): (1st) 1978, ISBN 0-471-83475-4 (2nd) 1982, ISBN 0-471-07878-6 IIRC, between editions he had moved from IBM to Intel and the 2nd edition has an additional chapter on the IAPX 432. "High-Level Language Computer Architecture" edited by Yaohan Chu. Published by Academic Press, 1975, ISBN 0-12-174150-8. > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one in on display at > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). One, or part of one? I'm pretty sure that both of the above books include some discussion of the SYMBOL machine. Predictably, I don't have either at hand to look; they're both in storage and storage is a mess right now. -Frank McConnell From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Mar 6 02:15:54 2001 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: My old posts just now appearing on the list Message-ID: <000401c0a615$aa0bd4c0$cd9e72d1@main> Anyone have any idea what's going on? I sent these two emails to the list on December 13, but they just appeared on March 5th. Am I reading these headers correctly if I state that these emails have been at mlynk.com since the December 13th, and were just yesterday sent to the list? I've copied the headers and subject lines here: RE: CRT Problems was:(no subject) Return-Path: Received: from opal.tseinc.com (opal.tseinc.com [209.83.143.19]) by mlynk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06239 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:08:49 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA95442 for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:48:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org) X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org using -f Received: from mlynk.com (IDENT:root@[209.114.158.2]) by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA95436 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:48:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from whdawson@mlynk.com) Received: from whdawson.cobweb.net (ip136.wpic.com [209.114.158.136]) by mlynk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA27718 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:47:27 -0500 From: "Bill Dawson" To: Subject: RE: CRT Problems was:(no subject) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:36:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c0652b$2d91c1a0$889e72d1@cobweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <3A371F55.E4E0625D@ipom.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Status: AND this one: Return-Path: Received: from opal.tseinc.com (opal.tseinc.com [209.83.143.19]) by mlynk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04103 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:13:03 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA94070 for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:52:05 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org) X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org using -f Received: from mlynk.com (IDENT:root@[209.114.158.2]) by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA94065 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:52:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from whdawson@mlynk.com) Received: from whdawson.cobweb.net (ip247.wpic.com.158.114.209.IN-ADDR.ARPA [209.114.158.247] (may be forged)) by mlynk.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA30847 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:41:20 -0500 From: "Bill Dawson" To: "Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org" Subject: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:30:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c0653b$16532f00$f79e72d1@cobweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Status: From jerryjh at imt.net Tue Mar 6 02:58:55 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103060846.BAA24929@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-04 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >The Museums clearly serve several useful purposes, such >that I think the "us vs. them" label is inappropriate. Oh well. At least it got some attention. ;-) The "vs." might just as well be thought of as "private collectors" in *contrast* to "museum collections". >1. They are higher profile that individual enthusiats >and therefore a magnet for systems that might otherwise >end up in the dumpster or with scrappers. What do you mean by "higher profile"? There are some private collectors, no doubt, with noble and intelligent motives rivaling that of some museum staffs. >2. They tend to be open to the general public making >the machines accessible to anyone who wants to see >them. What would you suggest is the foremost reason for "seeing" them? >3. They educate the public about the value of >preserving old computers, and introduce new people to >the hobby. (I know some may not think this is >necessarily a good thing.) Would you suppose that there are other causes even more significant than encouraging computers as a hobby through museum displays? >4. The curators tend to be schooled in preservation, >and while they may not operate their machines, they >usually keep them safe, dry, etc. Private collectors can do the same, if they wish, although I doubt that many private collectors would enjoy "dead" machines as well as "live" ones. >5. They can usually accommodate the very large >machines that many collectors don't have the room for. Yes, I have seen such a museum, which has ambitious plans for doing just that. >6. Museums can sometimes undertake restoration >projects that require the coordination of people and >resources that individuals would unlikely be able to >accomplish on their own, such as those undertaken by >The Computer Museum History Center located at Moffett >Airfield. Is there a URL for it? >7. Museums don't sell on eBay (or sell at all for that >matter); a number of "us" do. Personally, I prefer to see what I'm buying first -- especially when it's something like an old computer that I'd want to examine closely for condition, etc.. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From jerryjh at imt.net Tue Mar 6 04:00:26 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103060949.CAA01461@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-05 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >>Museums should ideally have the at least a few of the best >>preserved specimens of chosen categories, especially the rarer >>categories... >Is it more important to preserve rare machines or 'important' >machines? ... >I can make arguements for either, BTW. Let's just say I'd be pleased to see nothing significant go to waste. I'm not an authority on distinctions, just a visitor offering my concern to preserve what's best for learning purposes. >>both working and nonworking condition: working order for >>preservation; nonworking for learning. Of course, any of us >>should be allowed to... >Have you got that the right way round? Alright. Both working and nonworking systems have their use. That's what I'd suggest. My apologies for not "writing straightly". >>have private collections for learning or whatever else -- but not >>the liberty to deliberately destroy history that could be >>beneficial to mankind. >Are you suggesting that scrap dealers should be turned into >criminals ? (I don't agree with this). No. My use of *deliberately* implies *knowingly*, which I would say certain individuals might do to hide the value of "old technology" in order to turn attention to some selfish, lucrative scheme. This is not on the same level as "scrap dealers", as you might suggest. I would like to emphasize that I value classic computer history more for its lessons than the methods of its material preservation. Of course, the former depends on the latter -- but you can surely appreciate my elevation of principle above all else. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From ip500 at home.com Tue Mar 6 06:26:26 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping References: <000001c0653b$16532f00$f79e72d1@cobweb.net> <15012.21714.714937.627030@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AA4D772.755E268B@home.com> Yep.... The header on that message was for Dec ?? , 2000 ?????? Must have dropped out of hyperspace pergatory. Craig Dave McGuire wrote: > > Hmm...the person at the contact number said this messages is > *months* old, and those terminals are long gone. > > -Dave McGuire > > On December 13, Bill Dawson wrote: > > HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping, pickup > > preferred. > > > > 7 are located in Philadelphia, PA and 7 are in Tampa, FL. All are still > > operational and include the original boxes. > > > > Please contact Lisa Flores at Abtech Systems by phone or email to make > > arrangements: > > > > (800)474-7397 (Carlsbad, CA) or lisax.flores@xabtechsys.com (remove the > > x's) > > > > Arrangements should be made ASAP. There may be much more HP equipment > > available in the future for free if this goes well. Abtech has HP and > > Sun equipment, along with other things such as Netservers, PC's and > > peripherals, etc. that are not worth shipping back to Carlsbad and may > > become available to listmembers in the future. > > > > > > Bill From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Mar 6 09:34:30 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Sinclair Toaster References: <005f01c0a5c9$c9ef0bf0$9c794ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <012401c0a652$f01f8320$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: Sinclair Toaster > > Then I found a Video Toaster 4000 3.0/40 Amiga 2000 with a GVP scsi/hd, and > a few DPS (Digital Processing Systems) boards in it. It boots fine into > workbench and into toaster but I haven't hooked up any video sources to it > yet. It's wonderful to finally have Workbench on a harddisk. > > I haven't found much on the DPS cards yet though... I useta use a DPS PAR > board in a pc with 3dstudio but I'm guessing these are tbc video > capture/player boards. Does anyone have info on the: > > 1. DPS, 743-860, PTF Rev 2 > 2. DPS-560, 743-800 WFV Rev 3 > > Thanks > - Mike > Mike, nice Toaster score! By far the majority of DPS products you'll find installed in Amigas are indeed ISA-powered time base correctors. DPS produced 4 versions of ISA-powered TBCs (the Personal TBC, and the TBC II through IV) that were commonly fitted to the Amiga, as well as the Personal Animation Recorder that you mentioned. The only other DPS card I've seen used in Amigas was the V-Scope, and they are unusual except in very high-end installations. I'll check my TBCs tonight to see if I can get a match on the board numbers you mentioned. DPS is still in business, BTW, at www.dps.com. They still provide some downloads for older products, but you have to do a name search to find them on the site. There are also some pictures, so you may be able to do a visual ID. Or you could try the Big Book of Amiga Hardware at http://hard-ware.de/amiga . Does your GVC board include an accelerator? Most Toaster systems had at least an '030, if not an '040. Lightwave needs all the horsepower and RAM it can get. Have fun with the new Ami! Mark. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 6 07:26:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Sinclair Toaster In-Reply-To: <005f01c0a5c9$c9ef0bf0$9c794ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <1405.465T300T8663929optimus@canit.se> Mike skrev: >I had a fun fleamarket run last weekend and for $17 total... First picked >up an unbuilt and complete Sinclair Black Watch Kit... >It was difficult retaining the drool while fishing out the $2... It's a >pretty little kit >There's a Sinclair ic (kx8508 Sinclair) that's got a datecode of '75 but I >dont remember ever seeing the watch advertised on this side-o-the-pond... I >guess kit's safe as long as my other LED holds out. ;) Mmm, how genuine. >Then I found a Video Toaster 4000 3.0/40 Amiga 2000 with a GVP scsi/hd, and >a few DPS (Digital Processing Systems) boards in it. It boots fine into >workbench and into toaster but I haven't hooked up any video sources to it >yet. It's wonderful to finally have Workbench on a harddisk. And it only cost 15USD? You utter bastard. >I haven't found much on the DPS cards yet though... I useta use a DPS PAR >board in a pc with 3dstudio but I'm guessing these are tbc video >capture/player boards. Does anyone have info on the: > 1. DPS, 743-860, PTF Rev 2 > 2. DPS-560, 743-800 WFV Rev 3 Have a look at http://www.amiga-hardware.com/. If you need to identify the cards, use a program such as WhichAmiga or a modern ShowBoards. I'll mail them to you if you like. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I believe OS/2 is destined to be the most important operating system, and possibly program, of all time..." Bill Gates 1988 From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 6 08:06:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) (& OT :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1199.465T2300T9066129optimus@canit.se> Jason McBrien skrev: >Metric is awful for medium sized measurements, though. There isn't a nice >replacement for the "Foot" (Decimeter? I don't think so... besides I think >it's a measuring instrument) And the cc is an awkward unit for measuring >medium sized volumes. Add 600cc of water to your brownie mix? What's wrong >with two cups? Metric is fine for many measurements and I don't care about >switching, as long as we still use Imperial for certain things ( I REFUSE to >go 100 Kilometers per hour, I will always go 60 MPH, and I'll run two miles >a day though two kilometers would be easier :) Why add 600 ml (I suppose that's what a cc is) when you could just add 6 dl? Frankly, I have never bothered to learn those odd units used in the anglophony, since they are archaic beyond reason. I wonder why there hasn't been a revolution in America, isn't the people tired of using all that inch and oz stuff? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 6 08:13:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <000001c0a5e6$08f048c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <541.465T2400T9135645optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >Well, maybe it would work better, but I don't recall SI units being any more >easy to visualize than the "normal" metrics. While I have no idea how easy it is to identify a "cup" or a "gallon", since I've never seen any, I can attest that it indeed is very easy to visualise any common metric measure, and should be for any European. Just because it is difficult for you and your generation doesn't mean it has to be. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 6 09:04:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1526.465T650T9644763optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >I wonder just how many people have started collecting classic computers >because they saw some in a museum. Did anyone on this list start for that >reason? No, but an early visit to the computer museum certainly piqued my interest. If you're an old-timer, who actually owned a Speccy or built your own 6809 micro, it isn't all that far-fetched to begin collecting those old machines, but that museum was an actual chance to see machines which I had only read about in action. I could even play games or program them, which isn't a common privilege for 13-year-olds nowadays. You may be enjoying your machines immensely, Tony, but who else? There is no computer museum in this country anymore, but I see how fascinated my little brother is by my Atari 2600 or the C64, and seeing what an integral part of youth culture computers and games are nowadays, it should be just as common to know some of their history as for my little sister to listen to Blondie. =) >Hmmm... I've heard some horror stories (and alas seen the results) about >the way some museums and similar organisations (which the public think of >as museusms) 'preserve' their machines. Just about any collector could do >a lot better. Of course, there are good and bad museums. Computer museums should be a hands- on experience to as large an extent as possible. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Just don't compare it with a real language, or you'll be unhappy... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <1992May12.190238.5667@netlabs.com> From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Mar 6 10:13:50 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <002301c0a5db$f627d3c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010306101229.029c9dc0@pc> At 06:22 PM 3/5/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Moreover, if I put in an extra cupp of flour, or >inadvertently left one out, it didn't matter either. It still produced bread, >and the normal result wasn't sufficiently reproducible to point up any >difference between the amounts either... Just to drive this thread more deeply off-topic, cooking is all about reproducibility. That's why smart bread-makers measure flour by weight, not volume. :-) - John From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 6 10:09:32 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <200103060729.BAA01278@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Scott, >I'm making a list of the processors and computers >that in one way or another tried to directly execute >a high-level programming language. Here's what I have >so far. ... There's another category of machines like the "Basic stamp" that have an HLL in firmware "on chip" (either in ROM on the CPU chip, or in another chip on the same IC). From an architectural point of view, I think this is a lot different from what you are talking about, but you may want to make a list for that category as well, for completeness. I'll bet you'll find some processors that are right on the edge between categories, too. - Mark From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 6 10:58:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <541.465T2400T9135645optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001901c0a65e$af846540$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're certainly right in that it is easy to visualize the units with which you were brought up from childhood. I don't think it's difficult to visualize a "cup" since one normally uses one every day. I agree that a "gallon" is a more difficult unit to describe to someone who's not accustomed to them. The "cup" has become extensively corrupted by the purveyors of coffee. Here in the U.S. people have gradually become accustomed to a rather large cup, commonly referred to as a "mug" more closely approximating in volume, though not in shape, what one gets at a pub when having a "mug" of beer. That is about 12 fluid ounces in capacity, which is what the typical botle of beer contains. I remember that wine glasses often held 250 ml, and some beer mugs were marked 500 ml (which, BTW, is VERY close to the popular "pint" of beer). (1 quart = 1/4 gallon, which = 946 ml, which = 2 pints, each of which, BTW = 2 cups) However, the popular size of a beverage can as dispensed from a machine is 12 fl. oz. in capacity, as is the common beer bottle. That's gotten to be a common size for a "mug" of coffee as consumed by the not-yet-awake coffee drinker. The coffee cups used in the typical dinner service is normally half that capacity, or 6 fl. oz. I'm not prepared to support the notion of a "gallon" as I don't find the gallon to be a convenient unit, now that we don't have to haul a gallon from the village well to the house just to have water to drink or cook. That is, I believe, the historical origin of the term, however. I do, however, find the liter a profoundly convenient unit, as the (perhaps maximal) amount of beer or wine one is likely to consume at a sitting, e.g. at a meal, while a "cup" is what one is likely to consume as a single drink. The units that we like to use in conversation are based on our customs and habits. Because our culturally imposed behaviors and needs are different, we tend to see those things differently. The fact that the rather archaic English units are based on commonly accessible notions like the foot or the cup, it's hard to let go of them in favor of 3/10 of a meter or 236.5 ml. but it is likely that as commerce becomes truly global, these obstacles will fall away. Those of us who use the foot as a measure will eventually recognize that it's 30 cm and, who knows, perhaps the "cup" will eventually become 250 ml, which is about as convenient. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:13 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >Well, maybe it would work better, but I don't recall SI units being any more > >easy to visualize than the "normal" metrics. > > While I have no idea how easy it is to identify a "cup" or a "gallon", since > I've never seen any, I can attest that it indeed is very easy to visualise any > common metric measure, and should be for any European. Just because it is > difficult for you and your generation doesn't mean it has to be. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > optimus@dec:foo$ make love > make: don't know how to make love. Stop > > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Mar 6 11:02:38 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: The artificially inflated valuation of a donation to a museum is exactly how many paintings ended up in museums. The IRS cracked down of paintings created to be donations for tax fraud purposes. The same scheme has been tried with, property, cars, clothing, furniture, horses, and boats. The main issue is FMV, fair market value. You can't claim it's worth $100,000 if nobody will pay that. It's especially difficult without comparable sales of the item to value your item. There have been cases of dealers trading items among themselves to establish an artificial market value. No money changed hands just paperwork. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue Mar 6 11:05:45 2001 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <200103061153921.SM01524@m2w049> Message-ID: <001401c0a65f$af67e720$2e0a010a@mvista.com> > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Frank McConnell fmc@reanimators.org > Date: 05 Mar 2001 23:17:34 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HLL Computers > > There are another couple of books I would recommend Scott Guthery > track down: > > "High-Level Language Computer Architecture" edited by Yaohan Chu. > Published by Academic Press, 1975, ISBN 0-12-174150-8. Yup, another good one. WHen I get home I'll look to see if it discusses the SYMBOL machine. BTW, David Ditzel of Transmeta worked on SYMBOL (at Iowa) and recently rediscovered the machine when he saw the one on display at MOffett. When I was in college in the mid-70s HLL architectures were an area of considerable interest and research. I was originally attracted to work at HP because of work they had done creating an incremental APL compiler with microcode support on the HP3000. The RISC tidal wave seems to have extinguished most efforts in this area. > > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one > in on display at > > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). > > One, or part of one? > I believe only the CPU is in the collection. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 6 11:06:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) (& OT :) References: <1199.465T2300T9066129optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002301c0a65f$d1045580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, they're archaic. They've been with us for a long time, hence it's terribly difficult for us to let go of them. The ones hardest to give up are those that are the most convenient. It's much easier for me to consider a "cup" of water than to think of it as 236.5 ml, or even rounding up to 250 ml. When you go to the corner pub for a mug of beer, you know about how much beer that is. You know that if your friend has had three glasses of beer, he's probably not safe driving his car, though you probably believe that if you've had three mugs of beer, you're not unable to walk. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Jason McBrien" Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:06 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) (& OT :) > Jason McBrien skrev: > > >Metric is awful for medium sized measurements, though. There isn't a nice > >replacement for the "Foot" (Decimeter? I don't think so... besides I think > >it's a measuring instrument) And the cc is an awkward unit for measuring > >medium sized volumes. Add 600cc of water to your brownie mix? What's wrong > >with two cups? Metric is fine for many measurements and I don't care about > >switching, as long as we still use Imperial for certain things ( I REFUSE to > >go 100 Kilometers per hour, I will always go 60 MPH, and I'll run two miles > >a day though two kilometers would be easier :) > > Why add 600 ml (I suppose that's what a cc is) when you could just add 6 dl? > Frankly, I have never bothered to learn those odd units used in the > anglophony, since they are archaic beyond reason. I wonder why there hasn't > been a revolution in America, isn't the people tired of using all that inch > and oz stuff? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno > shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, > quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p > Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 6 11:06:16 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) (& OT :) Message-ID: <006c01c0a660$1ccf9010$6a799a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >anglophony, since they are archaic beyond reason. I wonder why there hasn't >been a revolution in America, isn't the people tired of using all that inch >and oz stuff? ;) Yep. - I own a toyota... metric tools. - I did many years ago work on british morotcycles decimal inches. - I have a full tool crib, fractional inches, however, drills are number, letter, fractional inch and decimal inch. The verniers and micrometers are in thousandths of an inch. - However, my us standard snow blower uses the US common 14mm spark plug. - I fly a plane and use knots not MPH or KPH. My altimiter is in inches but weather is in millibars. - I cook, grams, oz, drams, pinches, "abit of" and so on. An all I wanted to do was drill an eigth inch hole for a number six screw to mount the capacitor (condensor) in my 10m reciever. I ponder this over a cup of Coffee. ;) Allison From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue Mar 6 11:13:22 2001 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <200103061153921.SM01524@m2w049> Message-ID: <001c01c0a660$bf3b9c40$2e0a010a@mvista.com> > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Frank McConnell fmc@reanimators.org > Date: 05 Mar 2001 23:17:34 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HLL Computers > > There are another couple of books I would recommend Scott Guthery > track down: > > "High-Level Language Computer Architecture" edited by Yaohan Chu. > Published by Academic Press, 1975, ISBN 0-12-174150-8. Another good one. I'll check for references to SYMBOL in this book when I get home tonight. > > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one > in on display at > > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). > > One, or part of one? I believe TCMHC only has the CPU. Its the box on display between the PDP10 and the Meiko supercomputer. BTW, David Ditzel of Transmeta worked on SYMBOL (at Iowa?) and recently rediscovered the machine on display during a recent visit. When I was in college in the 75-79 timeframe HLL architectures were the subject of considerable interest and research (and I believe this was the case for the previous 20 years). I was originally drawn to working at HP by the work they had done providing microcode support for an incremental APL compiler on the HP3000 (which was the subject of a lawsuit HP lost before withdrawing the product, but that's another thread). I thought it was a fascinating field, but the tidal wave of RISC architectures in the early-80s I think pretty much killed off HLL architectures (which I believe was the right thing). Lee Courtney Engineering Manager Phone: (408) 328-9238 MontaVista Software, Inc. Fax: (408) 328-9204 1237 East Arques Avenue Web: www.hardhatlinux.com Sunnyvale, CA 94085 Email: lcourtney@mvista.com Check out the embedded Linux experts at http://www.hardhatlinux.com From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Tue Mar 6 11:32:24 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) Message-ID: <005a01c0a663$724a29d0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is >where the basic units came from. 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. For a person whom has used the metric for 2/3 of my life I still find it very clear and precise. I hate to have to remember all those weird numbers 5280 feet in a mile, 16 ounces to a can oh wait that's beer here... It took me a while to get used to the units on this side of the pond and I still strugglt when I need a pint and all I have to measure is a cup. And I found the most people here don't even know all those psychoweirdo stuff. Hey the Nasdaq just dropped the fractional notation. That's another funky stuff I had to deal with adding 3/32 of an inch to 3/8 of an inch does not look like fun to me when I could be adding mm or cm. Look what happened when one bonehead uses Imperial measurements instead of the standard metric system for the mars smasher ^H^H^H^H^H^H lander. I don't think the US will ever make it to the metric system. It is always presented as a difficult system in schools. some kids always ooh aah when I mention the metric stuff to them. Wake up people of the United states it's 2001 and we don't need to know the lenght of the thumb or foot or whatever appendage from some long dead ruler of an old island. Francois From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Mar 6 11:31:28 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) (OT!!!) In-Reply-To: <002301c0a5db$f627d3c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010306123128.01a57a18@obregon.multi.net.co> It depends.... have you tried making croissant dough, the french "mille fleure" (sp?) thing with the wrong proportions of stuff? Or phyllo dough? believe me, an extra/missing cup does matter in that case. At 06:22 PM 3/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >Nothing drove that point home for me more than when I found that if I left >something other than flour, yeast, or water, out of my bread recipe, it really >didn't matter much. Moreover, if I put in an extra cupp of flour, or >inadvertently left one out, it didn't matter either. It still produced bread, >and the normal result wasn't sufficiently reproducible to point up any >difference between the amounts either... > >Dick -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 6 11:32:36 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers Message-ID: <007401c0a664$56b66bb0$6a799a8d@ajp166> From: Mark Tapley > There's another category of machines like the "Basic stamp" that >have an HLL in firmware "on chip" (either in ROM on the CPU chip, or in >another chip on the same IC). From an architectural point of view, I think >this is a lot different from what you are talking about, but you may want >to make a list for that category as well, for completeness. I'll bet you'll >find some processors that are right on the edge between categories, too. Add to that... machines where the cpus had internal rom with... National NSC8073 with tinybasic on internal rom Intel 8052 (8051 serios with 8k basic). 8051 with Forth in internal rom An assortment of small handhelds with a chip containing basic Then there were the machines with internal rom or microcode that ran some hll... Didn't Wang have a small micro with basic on rom? Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 6 02:59:26 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: New here :-)" (Mar 5, 22:17) References: Message-ID: <10103060859.ZM23107@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 22:17, Tony Duell wrote: > Pete wrote: > > Tony wrote: > > > 1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons > > > > Except that, traditionally, there are two teaspoons in a dessertspoon and > > two dessertspoons in a tablespoon. It doesn't add up :-) > > I believe the 3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon is right in America. We have > slightly different spoons over here. Well, that was a bit tongue-in-cheek :-) "Officially" (whose office, I don't know) a teaspoon here is 5ml and a tablespoon is 15ml, so it's now 1:3 here too. Like Dick, though, I know mine don't work out that way :-) > When you consider that most recipies include such reproducable standards > as '1 egg' or 'a pinch of salt', you come to realise that measuring > _anything_ accurately is probably a total waste of time :-) And if you do, it probably won't come out right anyway -- your flour will be a different grade, or your eggs a different size, than those of the person who wrote the recipe. Or they do it by eye too, and just wrote down what they *thought* they used :-) I started to learn to cook when I was quite young, and I still remember the occasion when I read a recipe that called for a teaspoon of vanilla essence. "Mum! Is that a level or a heaped teaspoon?" She had to think about it for a moment... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 6 02:44:00 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: "Will Jennings" "Re: New here :-)" (Mar 5, 17:22) References: Message-ID: <10103060843.ZM23101@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 5, 17:22, Will Jennings wrote: > Uhh, why are they being called "American" units? It's the English system of > measurement, even if America is (or is close to being) its last user.. 'cos many of the units (especially liquids) are different sizes from the English ones :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 6 03:50:04 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:42:07 EST." Message-ID: <200103060950.JAA26066@citadel.metropolis.local> > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > or a dab. ^^^ That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 6 03:48:02 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:20:22 EST." <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: <200103060948.JAA26051@citadel.metropolis.local> > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > so far. > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 > Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others > Ada - Intel 432 > Java - picoJava > Modula M-Code - Lilith > > Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. There have been quite a few Forth machines - anything based on the Novix/Harris chips for a start. Also: WISC CPU/16 and FRISC 3 And there's also the Rekursiv computers and language. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Mar 6 03:44:19 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:56:44 PST." <20010305205644.1070.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200103060944.JAA26024@citadel.metropolis.local> > --- Tony Eros wrote: > > Yeah, let's get rid of all those stupid non-metric > > measurements. Especially those pesky units of time. I mean, what idiot > > came up with "seconds", "minutes" and "hours", anyway? The "hours" even > > repeat twice every "day" -- how stupid is that! > > Hopefully this is meant humorously. The second _is_ a metric unit > of time, even though minutes/hours/etc are not reckoned in decimal > intervals. Well we used decimal minutes (one hundredths of an hour) in payroll and time & motion guys use them too... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ss at allegro.com Tue Mar 6 12:21:39 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <03c701c0a5ba$16edfed0$b97f06d1@aa.net> Message-ID: <3AA4BA33.32400.36D5F22A@localhost> Re: Scott writes: > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > so far. > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 BTW, that should be Burroughs B 5000 (don't forget the "B ", and the B 5000 preceded the B 5500), and the other models: B 6500, B 6700, B 6800, B 7500 (?), B 7700, and ?. Also, the B 1700 (ALGOL-like language was used to write picocode (yes, pico)) (other models: B 1800, B 1900) However, as others have pointed out, many of those machines didn't directly execute high level languages. But, the Burroughs are important in the HLL area: - may have been the first designed for HLL specifically; - (B 6500 and later) had no assembler. Think about it...the only language available to the operating system implementors was ALGOL (ok, ESPOL, which was Burroughs ALGOL with some more extensions). And, re: > P-code isn't a high level language. It's the assembly language of > the WD Pascal Microengine, Pascal was the high level language and > it was Compiled into P-code (as one target architecture). When you look at P-code, you say: Ken Bowles sure knew the Burroughs B 6500! P-code is extremely closely modelled after the CISC stack-oriented instruction set of the B 6500. (Dr. Bowles, head of the UCSD computer center (which had a B 6500) was in charge of the UCSD Pascal project.) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 6 13:56:55 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: National Industries CPM computer ??? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010306145655.345fc42a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Has anyone ever heard of a CPM computer made by National Industries Inc of Montgomery Alabama? I found one recently. It looks similar to a Morrow MD-2 and has two 5 1/4" floppy drives. It also has a Z-80A CPU. There were a couple of floppy disks in the drives. I tried to read them using 22disk but no luck. I haven't checked it beyond that. Joe From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 6 13:08:03 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <200103060950.JAA26066@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: Actually, I think they are all precisely defined in terms of scruples, aren't they? On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Stan Barr wrote: > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > or a dab. > ^^^ > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Mar 6 13:07:58 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <200103060717.f267HYj81962@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Mar 05, 2001 11:17:34 PM Message-ID: <200103061907.LAA08900@eskimo.com> Someone or other wrote: > > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one in on display at > > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). Frank McConnell wrote: > I'm pretty sure that both of the above books include some discussion > of the SYMBOL machine. Predictably, I don't have either at hand to > look; they're both in storage and storage is a mess right now. _Computer Structures: Readings and Examples_ has a chapter on the SYMBOL. It's the first edition of the book (more interesting than the second). And if you don't have a copy of the book, use this handy URL! http://www.research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Computer_Structures__Readings_and_Examples/contents.html I was wondering if it was legal, but then I noticed the owner of the page and I decided it was. :) His home page is one level up. -- Derek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 6 12:43:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <1526.465T650T9644763optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 6, 1 04:04:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2003 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010306/bb21a807/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 6 12:30:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:00 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <200103060949.CAA01461@cu.imt.net> from "jerryjh@imt.net" at Mar 6, 1 03:00:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2045 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010306/4124311e/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 6 13:23:36 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: HLL Computers Message-ID: The B5500 doesn't run Algol 60, technically speaking. It runs Burroughs Extended Algol, which is based on Algol 60. For example, BEA (cuz I don't wanna type out the whole name), doesn't include all of the characters used in Algol 60, it has a different replacement operator, uses a different symbol for exponents, and powers of ten in numbers are written out differently. Another major difference is that Algol 60 doesn't have reserved words, and BEA does. There are some other details too.. If anyone is wondering, I'm getting this from my "ALGOL Programming ...A Basic Approach" which was written by 2 guys from Burroughs and one from Marathon Oil, who was big into the B5000. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Mar 6 13:43:22 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: "from Tony Duell at Mar 6, 2001 06:30:26 pm" Message-ID: <200103061943.NAA13365@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > > I'm not an authority on distinctions, just a visitor offering my > > concern to preserve what's best for learning purposes. > > OK, in your opinion, what machines are important to preserve for learning > purposes (or for any other purpose you'd care to suggest). I am seriously > interested.... > Just to jump into the conversation... Some of these old computers are still being used for teaching purposes. There is a class taught at a community college in minneapolis that actually has the students programming on a PDP 8/E (that they have to borrow from another community college each time). If they had their own pdp 8 computers, maybe they could offer the course more often. So, there are uses for older, simpler to understand computers. -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 6 14:13:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) (OT!!!) References: <3.0.2.32.20010306123128.01a57a18@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <002901c0a679$f1bfb3e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, it matters with the bread, too, in that the consistency is impacted considerably, but it's still bread. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 10:31 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) (OT!!!) > > It depends.... have you tried making croissant dough, the french > "mille fleure" (sp?) thing with the wrong proportions of stuff? > Or phyllo dough? believe me, an extra/missing cup does matter in > that case. > > At 06:22 PM 3/5/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Nothing drove that point home for me more than when I found that if I left > >something other than flour, yeast, or water, out of my bread recipe, it > really > >didn't matter much. Moreover, if I put in an extra cupp of flour, or > >inadvertently left one out, it didn't matter either. It still produced > bread, > >and the normal result wasn't sufficiently reproducible to point up any > >difference between the amounts either... > > > >Dick > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 6 14:20:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <200103060950.JAA26066@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <003501c0a67a$d3511060$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, I've not been asked to "measure" a dab or a pinch, though I've used recipes that called for the addition of a pinch or a dab of something. It's like the absurd assumption, that goes goes with many recipes, implicit in "add salt to taste," which assumes that the preparer has any. My late ex-wife used to salt her food, then taste it so see whether it needed more. I always encouraged her to taste it first, but to no avail. 'twas the blood pressure that got 'er ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Barr" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:50 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > or a dab. > ^^^ > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 6 14:21:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <003f01c0a67a$f97ccae0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Now THERE's something not universally shared! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle K. Peirce" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 12:08 PM Subject: Re: New here :-) > > Actually, I think they are all precisely defined in terms of scruples, > aren't they? > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Stan Barr wrote: > > > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > > or a dab. > > ^^^ > > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > > > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > > > The future was never like this! > > > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From mark_k at iname.com Tue Mar 6 15:05:24 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: NeXT MO disks Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Mar 2001 Jeff Hellige wrote: > I actually found a couple of Sony EDM-1DA1 MO disks with >512-byte sectors and are formatted out to approximately 281meg/side. >Connected to 3 different Mac's, they will all read the disks fine but >they all error out when I attempt to reformat the disks, either using >the Pinnacle-supplied software or using FWB HDtoolbox. This version >of HDtoolbox states that it supports this drive too. The drive acts >like thier's a SCSI-bus problem at times but changing terminators and >such have had no effect on it. Hmm. What error messages does the software give when you try to format the disks? Can you successfully write data to the already-formatted disks? Try disabling blind reads and writes and enabling write verification, if possible (the Pinnacle software has per-partition options for that). Also, if you want to try formatting using Hard Disk Toolbox (say), don't power up the Mac with a Pinnacle-formatted disk in the drive. Insert the disk after booting; that way, the FWB driver will be used to access the disk, not whatever driver happens to be on the disk at the moment. Using a SCSI utility/diagnostic program, see how many sectors are in the primary and secondary defect lists. If there are many more in the secondary, that suggests that the drive lens and/or disk surface may be dirty. Cleaning the disk surface is easy (remember, with disk side A up, the surface for side A is underneath), so you may as well try that before attempting to open the drive. If you don't want to buy a purpose-designed disk cleaning kit you can use a lint-free cloth. Breathe on the disk and carefully wipe radially, rotate the disk slightly and repeat. Preferably wear some plastic gloves to prevent skin oils from touching the disk. For what it's worth, the Pinnacle Micro Mac driver is one of the few Mac SCSI packages that works on my Amiga with the ShapeShifter Mac emulator (even with ShapeShifter's I-can't-believe-the-bugs-in-that SCSI emulation). -- Mark From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 6 15:23:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <1526.465T650T9644763optimus@canit.se> References: <1526.465T650T9644763optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Of course, there are good and bad museums. Computer museums should be a hands- >on experience to as large an extent as possible. One thing that should be remembered is that a great many museums are run by fairly small staffs, often volenteers who may not even be all that familiar with the operation/repair of the exhibits. Couple this with the beating any hands-on machine would receive over time and it should be easy to see just how difficult it may be to keep even the most common machine functional and available for hands-on time. A better idea might be to have the historical machine on display and a kiosk next to it running more modern hardware with an emulator of that machine on display. There are plenty of excellent emulators for various 'classic' platforms out there, including the SOL, Altair, SWTPc 6800/6809 series machines, etc. This would provide the feel of the classic machine while preserving the actual hardware/software without the high maintainance associated with keeping it running constantly. I myself am most interested in functional machines but over time, even the simplest and/or the most common of the older platforms are going to become difficult to repair and keep functional. A machine in the open available for constant use would just compound this problem. Hands-on museums are nice, but not the most practical of things and most involved with them find them difficult to maintain and keep open. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jerryjh at imt.net Tue Mar 6 16:08:23 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103062157.OAA06079@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-06 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >However, both private collectors and museums often have space >limitations. I can't save everything I would like (although IMHO I >certainly try). And as somebody said yesterday, %computer_museum no >longer accepts donations of 'common' machines, for all they could >be used as spare parts, or to allow others to learn about them, or >whatever. I would asseme the reason they no longer accept such >donations is lack of space. Agreed. >> I'm not an authority on distinctions, just a visitor offering my >> concern to preserve what's best for learning purposes. >OK, in your opinion, what machines are important to preserve for >learning purposes (or for any other purpose you'd care to suggest). >I am seriously interested.... If we could say that classic computers have a valuable *object lesson* for future generations, I wouldn't be quick to label this or that machine as the best example. There are several categories of machines for various services, personal, desktop, portable, scientific, etc., and to elevate this or that one above the other might needlessly bait others into unproductive discussion of personal preferences. Let's have our personal preferences. But let's also determine (at least for ourselves) a general principle or two that points to the value of classic computers -- more specifically -- their purpose and our realistic expectations of them beyond mere entertainment value. >Of course, both groups might get a machine that is original and >which still works. In which case both enthusiasts and musuems will >preserve it in much the same state. I completely agree. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 6 16:04:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 6, 1 04:23:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1480 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010306/76e04ee2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 6 16:19:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <200103062157.OAA06079@cu.imt.net> from "jerryjh@imt.net" at Mar 6, 1 03:08:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1288 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010306/9eba9c92/attachment.ksh From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 6 16:28:05 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Sinclair Toaster References: <005f01c0a5c9$c9ef0bf0$9c794ed8@DOMAIN> <012401c0a652$f01f8320$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <008101c0a68c$b7de10f0$7d794ed8@DOMAIN> > I'll check my TBCs tonight to see if I can get a match on the board numbers > you mentioned. Thanks Mark... I think one of the tbc's is a IV or IVplus because it has a s-video-in on the back but I'm still not sure about either. They both have the four BNC ports and the little RJ jack > Does your GVC board include an accelerator? Yeah, I think it's the G-Force 040 card by picture IDing it from the hardware site you and Iggy mentioned. Yipee! > Most Toaster systems had at > least an '030, if not an '040. Lightwave needs all the horsepower and RAM > it can get. Got a copy? ;) > Have fun with the new Ami! Thanks (I am) - Mike From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 6 16:35:13 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Sinclair Toaster References: <1405.465T300T8663929optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <008201c0a68d$b6834670$7d794ed8@DOMAIN> From: Iggy Drougge >> It's wonderful to finally have Workbench on a harddisk. > > And it only cost 15USD? You utter bastard. *blush* Well to be fair... it was missing the keyboard, mouse, and monitor cable for the included 1084S. But I had them sitting in the corner waiting for this find event... ;) > If you need to identify the cards, use a program such as WhichAmiga or a > modern ShowBoards. I'll mail them to you if you like. That might be necesary and appreciated if I can't get a handle on them. What I'd really like is a C compiler with an API toolkit for the Toaster and TBC subsystems... Cheers - Mike From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 6 16:57:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >How would you feel if the local art gallery displayed copies of famous >paintings rather than the real thing. It's much the same -- you can buy >copies of the famous pictures to look at at home if you want to, but most >people go to the art gallery to see the original. > >And for the same reason, people who go to a computer museum should see >the original computer, and not a fake. The difference being at an art gallery the painting, especially if done by one of the old masters, isn't interacted with directly. About the only thing the gallery has to worry about, other than possible theft, is the damage done by exposure to light and to the corrosives in air. People don't actually handle it so there is relatetively little upkeep involved. That is why there are paintings in galleries throughout the world that are hundreds of years old. A hands-on exhibit on the other hand doesn't stand a chance of lasting long term like that due to the constant handling, spills and parts wearing out. Plus, if you reread what I wrote previously, you'll see that I suggested that the actual machine be on display for the world to see. I just suggested using emulators to provide the hands-on experience for those that are interested in seeing what the operating system and such actually looked like in use. This type of thing is already done quite a bit, with artificts on display and then working mockups or continuous video footage playing beside it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 6 17:12:36 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > > or a dab. > > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > Actually, I think they are all precisely defined in terms of scruples, > aren't they? And to bring this boack on topic: there are three SCRUPLES in a DRAM From spc at conman.org Tue Mar 6 17:13:23 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <005a01c0a663$724a29d0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> from "FBA" at Mar 06, 2001 11:32:24 AM Message-ID: <200103062313.SAA08642@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is > >where the basic units came from. > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. -spc (Atmospheric presure is measured in millibars, right?) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 6 16:10:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010306101229.029c9dc0@pc> References: <002301c0a5db$f627d3c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >At 06:22 PM 3/5/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> Moreover, if I put in an extra cupp of flour, or >>inadvertently left one out, it didn't matter either. It still produced >>bread, >>and the normal result wasn't sufficiently reproducible to point up any >>difference between the amounts either... > >Just to drive this thread more deeply off-topic, cooking is >all about reproducibility. That's why smart bread-makers >measure flour by weight, not volume. :-) As an infrequent, but still a breadmaker, I find it one of the fussiest bits of cooking requiring exact matching of wet and dry stuff. Talking about it does kind of give me the urge to cook some up. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 6 12:29:15 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <200103062313.SAA08642@conman.org> References: <005a01c0a663$724a29d0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> from "FBA" at Mar 06, 2001 11:32:24 AM Message-ID: <20010306232947.GVVT25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" > Subject: Re: New here :-) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:13:23 -0500 (EST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is > > >where the basic units came from. > > > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. > > At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. I thought all standards ie: 1L 1 meter 1 kg and others. Were taken when temperature is at 20 C? Thats what I hear and this is true when working in science and chemistry. All matter change size with temperature change. Low, smaller and higher, larger. EXCEPT: water. Weird matter and bane of water destroyer if containers/pipe water filled is left to freeze. FYI: 1 inch thick made of strongest stuff closed container filled w/ water, no air pocket. Will burst still. Cheers, Wizard > -spc (Atmospheric presure is measured in millibars, right?) From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Tue Mar 6 17:42:20 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: HLL Computers References: Message-ID: <009c01c0a697$1692b600$0100a8c0@dellhare> And of course the WCS - Writable Control Store - feature of Data General Eclipse computer starting with the S/130 system permitted dynamic creation of your own instruction set. The microcode is downloadable while the system is operating, so the instructions could be changed on-the-fly. The microcode word is 56-bits long and described in several DG documents, including a rather well written "how to program" manual. Not a high-profile series of microprogrammed systems, but custom microcode was invaluable in many projects. Bruce Ray bkr@SimuLogics.com -or- bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Courtney" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 10:58 PM Subject: RE: HLL Computers > APL - MCM70 from the Micro-Computer Machines. For the mid-70s this was a > truly amazing machine. > > - Dimensions were about 6"x14"x24" > - microcoded APL implementation > - dual casette tape drives for mass storage > - single line 20(?) character display > - full APL implementation > > MCM released several hardware based APL machines in the mid-70s. It can be > argued that a microprogrammed language implementation is not direct hardware > execution, but close enough for me. > > >From a microprogramable archiectures class I took in the late 70s here's a > list of microprogrammable architectures: > B1700 > Microdata 3200 > Interdata 8/32 > Nanodata QM-1 > CDC 5600 > Digital Scientific META4 > Varian 73 > Intel 3000 > HP21MX > > The above list is from "Microprogrammable Computer Architectures" by > Salisbury (1976). > > The IBM 5100 ran APL and BASIC, but I know it did not implement APL in > microcode, don't know about BASIC. > > "Computers in the 1980s" by Turn (1974) also has a brief, but interesting, > take on HLL hardware. > > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one in on display at > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). > > Lee Courtney > President > > Monterey Software Group Inc. > 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J > Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. > 650-964-7052 voice > 650-964-6735 fax > > Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for > HP3000 Business Servers > http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Scott Guthery > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:20 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: HLL Computers > > > > > > I'm making a list of the processors and computers > > that in one way or another tried to directly execute > > a high-level programming language. Here's what I have > > so far. > > > > Algol60 - Burroughs 5500 > > Pascal P-Code - Western Digital Pascal Microengine, Perq > > Lisp - Symbolics, Lisp Machine, and many others > > Ada - Intel 432 > > Java - picoJava > > Modula M-Code - Lilith > > > > Additions and corrections are greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Cheers, Scott > > > > ************************* Mobile-Mind, Inc ************************* > > Scott Guthery sguthery@mobile-mind.com > > Voice:+1 617 926 6888 Mobile:+1 617 230 1346 FAX:+1 617 926 1611 > > ******************** http://www.mobile-mind.com ******************** > > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 6 12:40:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <20010306232947.GVVT25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <200103062313.SAA08642@conman.org> Message-ID: <20010306234104.HVGJ741.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:29:15 +0000 > Subject: Re: New here :-) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" > > Subject: Re: New here :-) > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:13:23 -0500 (EST) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > > > > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is > > > >where the basic units came from. > > > > > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. > > > > At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. > > I thought all standards ie: > > 1L > 1 meter > 1 kg > and others. > > Were taken when temperature is at 20 C? Thats what I hear and this > is true when working in science and chemistry. > > All matter change size with temperature change. Low, smaller and > higher, larger. EXCEPT: water. Weird matter and bane of water > destroyer if containers/pipe water filled is left to freeze. FYI: > 1 inch thick made of strongest stuff closed container filled w/ > water, no air pocket. Will burst still. Oh, I forgot to add: atmospheric presures will change the results too. Standards is also taken based on 101.4 kpa I think, this is long time since I took courses in chemistry. Gravity too. This is why ISS is so important for advancing the microgravity researches. Wizard > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > > -spc (Atmospheric presure is measured in millibars, right?) > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 6 18:04:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 6, 1 05:57:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1721 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010307/4fa10a3b/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Mar 6 18:02:38 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <200103062313.SAA08642@conman.org> Message-ID: <006901c0a699$ec90e5e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:43 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is > > >where the basic units came from. > > > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. > > At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. > > -spc (Atmospheric presure is measured in millibars, right?) Correct. The ISA (International Standard Atmosphere) is 1013.2 hectopascals (equiv - millibars) @ 20C (hmm or is it 15? been a while since I did Met.) Cheers Geoff From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 6 19:19:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010306201959.41a78e48@mailhost.intellistar.net> > >The following came to us at work, and I wanted to pass on the info: > >STRICOM has received official notification of a new virus in the wild called >the Naked Wife Virus. > >This virus is sent by email message with the subject of the "Naked Wife" or >"FW: Naked Wife" with text of "My wife never looked like that! ;) ". >There is an infected attachment named "nakedwife.exe". When opened, this >virus resends itself to other recipients in address book. This virus also >affects all .dll, .exe, .com, and .bitmaps files. Do not open this email >or the attachment if received. > >Information has not yet been received as to whether Norton or McAfee will >detect and clean this virus. > >Microsoft Outlook email systems are the primary target of this virus and we >do not believe Lotus Notes is affected, but as a precautionary measure, we >are asking that if you receive an email at work or at home meeting the above >criteria, please delete them immediately. > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 6 18:49:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) References: <005a01c0a663$724a29d0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> from "FBA" at Mar 06, 2001 11:32:24 AM <20010306232947.GVVT25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <001901c0a6a0$6b2774e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's a fact that is one of the major factors in the presence of life on the Earth. If water didn't increase its volume as it descends in temperature below 4 degrees C, the oceans would ultimately freeze solid, and you know what that would mean. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: Re: New here :-) > > From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" > > Subject: Re: New here :-) > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:13:23 -0500 (EST) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > > > > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is > > > >where the basic units came from. > > > > > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. > > > > At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. > > I thought all standards ie: > > 1L > 1 meter > 1 kg > and others. > > Were taken when temperature is at 20 C? Thats what I hear and this > is true when working in science and chemistry. > > All matter change size with temperature change. Low, smaller and > higher, larger. EXCEPT: water. Weird matter and bane of water > destroyer if containers/pipe water filled is left to freeze. FYI: > 1 inch thick made of strongest stuff closed container filled w/ > water, no air pocket. Will burst still. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > > -spc (Atmospheric presure is measured in millibars, right?) > > > From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 6 18:55:30 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > > > or a dab. > > > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > > Actually, I think they are all precisely defined in terms of scruples, > > aren't they? > > And to bring this boack on topic: > there are three SCRUPLES in a DRAM I think I might have use for dram about now, or perhaps a full quart. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Mar 6 19:00:40 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <7a.1174678c.27d6e238@aol.com> another reason not to use Micros~1 products for email... In a message dated 3/6/01 7:33:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: << > >The following came to us at work, and I wanted to pass on the info: > >STRICOM has received official notification of a new virus in the wild called >the Naked Wife Virus. > >This virus is sent by email message with the subject of the "Naked Wife" or >"FW: Naked Wife" with text of "My wife never looked like that! ;) ". >There is an infected attachment named "nakedwife.exe". When opened, this >virus resends itself to other recipients in address book. This virus also >affects all .dll, .exe, .com, and .bitmaps files. Do not open this email >or the attachment if received. > >Information has not yet been received as to whether Norton or McAfee will >detect and clean this virus. > >Microsoft Outlook email systems are the primary target of this virus and we >do not believe Lotus Notes is affected >> -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From at258 at osfn.org Tue Mar 6 19:02:58 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just ran across this: a speck is 1/4 of a saltspoon. a saltspoon is 1/4 of a teaspoon 1 wine glass is 1/2 of a gill two gills make a cup And as you can see, we haven't even touched on firkins or hogsheads. On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > > > or a dab. > > > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > > Actually, I think they are all precisely defined in terms of scruples, > > aren't they? > > And to bring this boack on topic: > there are three SCRUPLES in a DRAM > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rcini at optonline.net Tue Mar 6 19:20:31 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Tape images and exporting Message-ID: Hello, all: I have an odd question. A chap from the Netherlands contacted me last week based on an old posting to the list that he found through an Internet search (from the list archives). He's restoring an LPS11 and would like to have copies of the paper tapes I have for his project. Several years ago, I picked-up several blue-boxes of PDP11 paper tapes, mostly diagnostic tapes. Since I can't make tape images, I was going to ship them to him and let him use them and then return them to me. I'm a bit concerned about the trans-Atlantic trip, plus any stupid stuff, like export restrictions. Any opinions? I would love to keep these things on this side of the Atlantic if I could and just deliver to him image files and scans of the tape ID label. Rich Collector of Classic Computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulator Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 6 19:22:31 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > I just ran across this: > a speck is 1/4 of a saltspoon. > a saltspoon is 1/4 of a teaspoon > 1 wine glass is 1/2 of a gill > two gills make a cup > > And as you can see, we haven't even touched on firkins or hogsheads. And for those who dislike Kilometers per hour, perhaps furlongs per fortnight would be more pleasing. The conversion factor is 1670.3232. - don > On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > > > > Well Dick, I guess you've never been asked to measure out a pinch > > > > > or a dab. > > > > That's a tad more than a smidgin isn't it? > > > Actually, I think they are all precisely defined in terms of scruples, > > > aren't they? > > > > And to bring this boack on topic: > > there are three SCRUPLES in a DRAM > > > > > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Mar 6 19:26:27 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <7a.1174678c.27d6e238@aol.com> Message-ID: <983928387_PM_BeOS.jim@calico.litterbox.com> Yup, this one's real. Symantec classifies it as hitting between 50 and 999 machines on 3-9 sites, with medium geographical distribution and moderate threat containment. High damage. - it eats several system files and makes the system unusable, requiring a reboot. Apparently Norton Antivirus will deal with it if you catch it before you execute the .exe file. > another reason not to use Micros~1 products for email... > >In a message dated 3/6/01 7:33:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, >rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > ><< > > >The following came to us at work, and I wanted to pass on the info: > > > >STRICOM has received official notification of a new virus in the wild >called > >the Naked Wife Virus. > > > >This virus is sent by email message with the subject of the "Naked Wife" > or > >"FW: Naked Wife" with text of "My wife never looked like that! ;) ". > >There is an infected attachment named "nakedwife.exe". When opened, this > >virus resends itself to other recipients in address book. This virus also > >affects all .dll, .exe, .com, and .bitmaps files. Do not open this > email > >or the attachment if received. > > > >Information has not yet been received as to whether Norton or McAfee will > >detect and clean this virus. > > > >Microsoft Outlook email systems are the primary target of this virus and we > >do not believe Lotus Notes is affected >> > > >-- >DB Young Team OS/2 > >old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: >www.nothingtodo.org > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 6 21:15:17 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: IBM System 36 Message-ID: <3AA5A7C5.84600E8C@internet1.net> Last time I went to the surplus electronic shop that I visit. I saw what was labeled as being a System 36. It was basically a really over grown full tower, with a few other peripherals. Did I see the whole unit, or just a small part? Would this be something I could do something with? Does any freeware exist? How about the OS.... is it around, and attainable? What kind of processing horsepower does it have? I didn't really look at it, while I was there. I knew they are the ancestor to the AS400, and the AS400 is sort of a white elephant for the hobbyist. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 6 20:21:54 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 6, 1 04:23:16 pm Message-ID: >Most of those emualtors are available for free download, which means that >just about anyone who is interested can run them at home. I (and most There is a huge difference between "can run them at home" and here it is running ready for you to try something. Sure show the real stuff, but if it comes down to no running real systems, vs emulation of some, I'll take the some vs none. I have a 10 year old son, and we visit a LOT of the hands on type "kids" museums, and even with displays that are made quite robust, they do bust. Nothing is worse for a museum than broken displays. From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 6 20:51:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: HLL Computers In-Reply-To: <009c01c0a697$1692b600$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Bruce Ray wrote: > And of course the WCS - Writable Control Store - feature of Data > General Eclipse computer starting with the S/130 system permitted > dynamic creation of your own instruction set. The microcode is > downloadable while the system is operating, so the instructions could > be changed on-the-fly. The microcode word is 56-bits long and > described in several DG documents, including a rather well written > "how to program" manual. Not a high-profile series of microprogrammed > systems, but custom microcode was invaluable in many projects. Don't forget, the floppy diskette was invented by IBM as a medium to distribute microcode on ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 6 22:51:19 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: <1526.465T650T9644763optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <983940679.3aa5be477ff99@email.ou.edu> > One thing that should be remembered is that a great many > museums are run by fairly small staffs, often volenteers who may not > even be all that familiar with the operation/repair of the exhibits. > Couple this with the beating any hands-on machine would receive over > time and it should be easy to see just how difficult it may be to > keep even the most common machine functional and available for > hands-on time. You're right. In most museums, a hands-on display is a recipe for disaster. A better model for hands-on in my opinion would be something akin to a scientific laboratory: only those of demonstratably sufficient merit are allowed touch access to the machines. This would be more a thing to be implemented by enthusiasts' clubs, but it would provide an opportunity for learning to those who wish it, even as the years pass and working machines become even more rare. > A better idea might be to have the historical machine > on display and a kiosk next to it running more modern hardware with > an emulator of that machine on display. Neat idea. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 6 23:25:55 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm Message-ID: <983942755.3aa5c6635e2b6@email.ou.edu> Well, I've said that I haven't gotten myself into this hobby to make a profit, but it is time for a small contradiction. I have found a person in my area that has 7 VAXen he's going to scrap if he can't move them out. Now, I'm not particularly interested in VAXen, but I am currently trying to raise money to put together a PDP-11 system or two. I need to know if these machines' value (in terms of power to acquire the PDP-11 parts that I want, either by money or direct trade) is greater than the cost of the trip to get them. The VAXen: VAX 6000-310 VAX 6000-410 VAX 6000-420 (2 of them) VAX 6000-510 (2 of them) VAX 7000-610 (cpu cards removed) Cost of trip: $500 The owner claims they were used by NASA, then stored in a climate-controlled room, then given to him. He says they look brand new. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From spc at conman.org Tue Mar 6 23:49:57 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <20010306232947.GVVT25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Mar 06, 2001 06:29:15 PM Message-ID: <200103070549.AAA08915@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great jpero@sympatico.ca once stated: > > > From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" > > Subject: Re: New here :-) > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:13:23 -0500 (EST) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > > > > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and is > > > >where the basic units came from. > > > > > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. > > > > At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. > > I thought all standards ie: > > 1L > 1 meter > 1 kg > and others. > > Were taken when temperature is at 20 C? Thats what I hear and this > is true when working in science and chemistry. I thought it was at 4C since water has the highest density at sea level at that tempurature (it then starts expanding again as the tempurature rises). What I remember learning (somewhere, I don't recall where) that one gram was one cubic centimeter of water at 4C. -spc (Maybe I mislearned, or perhaps it changed when I wasn't looking ... ) From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 6 23:54:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: <983942755.3aa5c6635e2b6@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 06, 2001 11:25:55 PM Message-ID: <200103070554.VAA02412@shell1.aracnet.com> > to know if these machines' value (in terms of power to acquire the PDP-11 parts > that I want, either by money or direct trade) is greater than the cost of the > trip to get them. > > The VAXen: > VAX 6000-310 > VAX 6000-410 > VAX 6000-420 (2 of them) > VAX 6000-510 (2 of them) > VAX 7000-610 (cpu cards removed) > > Cost of trip: $500 How about the cost to store them! Do you happen to realize how big these systems are likely to be? As for value, I'm not sure that they really have any, 6000's are pretty much given away these days from what I've seen, and without the CPU cards the 7000 is probably worthless. The real question would be what cards are in them. The right cards could have real value. I'm afraid I'm not really up on that class VAX, so am not sure what cards would have value though. Zane From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 7 00:22:33 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <983942755.3aa5c6635e2b6@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <00d401c0a6ce$ff6bc2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "ClassicCmp Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: Value of a small VAX farm > I have found a person in my area that has 7 VAXen he's going to scrap if he > can't move them out. Now, I'm not particularly interested in VAXen, but I am > currently trying to raise money to put together a PDP-11 system or two. I need > to know if these machines' value (in terms of power to acquire the PDP-11 parts > that I want, either by money or direct trade) is greater than the cost of the > trip to get them. I think I saw these mentioned in the Linux/VAX mailing list. Considerable interest was expressed. $ value is always hard for stuff like this, but these are not beyond the reach of hobbyists either. While not high, $ value would be likely to exceed the $500 trip cost somewhat. If you find the right buyers, (especially for certain components) you could do fairly well. (The 7000 sans cpu's may be harder to flog.) But if you were to offer the other 5 complete for, say, $150-300 each, (more for the faster/SMP ones) (or PDP-11 stuff in lieu) you should find homes for them and/or PDP stuff for you. Ahem, I take it you know these system units weigh in around 500lbs each and have factored that in to your $500? > The VAXen: > VAX 6000-310 Single CPU. 300 Series Speed 3.8vups (1VUPS ~=1MIPS) XMI ,VAXBI busses. CI capable where fitted. Calypso/XCP CPU > VAX 6000-410 Single CPU 400 Series > VAX 6000-420 (2 of them) Hmmm, dual cpu 400 series, combine the 2 and and you have a 4 cpu SMP system. Verrryy nice. Speed 7-36vups XMI,VAXBI busses, CI capable where fitted. Model 410-460 Calypso/XRP CPU The performance figures are a range as it varies according to the number of CPU's fitted. A 420 is around 12-13, a 440 (like the one at work here is around 24) > VAX 6000-510 (2 of them) Single CPU 500 series, again, combine the two into one chassis for a fairly slick 2 CPU SMP Box. Speed 13-58 VUPS XMI,VAXBI Busses, CI and DSSI where fitted. Model 510-560 Calypso/XMP CPU I believe there is a backplane difference between the 200/300/400 series and the 500/600 series, different power requirements IIRC. There is a kit to allow it 500/600 stuff to work in the 200/300/400 stuff I think. Out of the box, 200/300/400 series could interchange CPU cards, and I think the 500/600 series could with each other but not with the 200/300/400 stuff, unless it had the backplane mod done. > VAX 7000-610 (cpu cards removed) Bugger. They really zip. Still got it's ram? Don't have the performance figures for these handy, bit academic minus the cpu cards. AFAIK, the 6000 class CPU's have different backplane power and are not compatible (or vice versa). ISTR that they are around 36 VUPS in single CPU configuration. Very similar to the 6000, and there are probably some common components. If there are other cards still in it, (particularly RAM) you should do ok. XMI bus cards of any kind are $$$, particularly ram and SCSI or other disk controllers. An XMI network card is worth a considerable amount too. I could give you a better idea if you were to provide a list of the cards in the slots of each machine. A basic off the shelf 6000 would be likely to have a minimum of 64Mb of ram, but could have more. Also the numbers on the cabinet don't mean a lot, if they were upgraded (extra/faster cpus added), only way to tell is to count the CPU cards and check the numbers. You don't mention ram or other adapters present. SCSI cards are particularly hard to find for these and quite expensive. A single XMI SCSI card (to the right people) would probably go close to covering your expenses. There are still quite a few of these in commercial service around the world. One of the more reliable larger Vaxen, and with quite modest power requirements. You also don't mention drives or HSC controllers or anything like that. Ex NASA stuff would have been clustered, so they probably have CI (Computer Interconnect) bus adapters, and would have been connected by that to each other and a HSC (or several probably) It's unlikely they have disk controllers, but you might get lucky and find a SCSI or DSSI in one or more of them. Unlikely to have SDI (KDB50) controllers in Ex NASA systems. Summary: There is certainly more than $500 worth of parts in the lot. Way more. Finding a buyer that needs what you have may be more difficult. I should point out that I would consider the machines worth saving in their own right. The fact that they are ex NASA gives them some additional historical significance. Perhaps they were a part of the Viking Mission, or some other landmark space exploration. OTOH, I suppose it could have been the payroll cluster, but you never know..... Patience is the key, if you look on it as being worth the $500 (they are IMHO) then you should recoup your capital in time, and should show a profit, in some form, in not too long. > Cost of trip: $500 > > The owner claims they were used by NASA, Likely. NASA was (still is) a big Digital/Compaq shop and had herds of Vaxen, which gave way to Alphas. > then stored in a climate-controlled room, These are pretty rugged anyway, my personal one is sitting in a dusty un-airconditioned corner shop, it still works good. Built like a panzerschiff. But if they were babied, so much the better. >then given to him. He says they look brand new. They usually do, unless badly handled. Probably as good as the day they were made. Better really, no infant mortality. Might want to power them up cautiously if they have been off a long time, capacitors can dry up and go 'bang!' They are 3 phase out of the box, but are moddable to 240vac single phase, and they draw around 500-600w depending on configuration. Hope this helps, Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 01:16:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: <00d401c0a6ce$ff6bc2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <983942755.3aa5c6635e2b6@email.ou.edu> <00d401c0a6ce$ff6bc2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <983949376.3aa5e040e8ec7@email.ou.edu> > > I have found a person in my area that has 7 VAXen he's going to scrap > > if he can't move them out. Now, I'm not particularly interested in > > VAXen, but I am currently trying to raise money to put together a > > PDP-11 system or two. I need to know if these machines' value (in > > terms of power to acquire the PDP-11 parts that I want, either by > > money or direct trade) is greater than the cost of the trip to get > > them. > > I could give you a better idea if you were to provide a list of the > cards in the slots of each machine. Machine 6000-310 Model # 63AMB-YE Qty Name 1 T1034 1 T1014-00 1 T1012-00 1 T1046-00 1 T1045 2 T1043 1 T1035 1 T1003 1 T1002 2 T2012 2 T2014-BF 1 T2015 1 TK70 Tape Drive 2 H7215 Power 3 H7214 Power 1 H7206A Power/Logic Box 1 OH405-E Power 1 H3033 DMB32 Dist.Panel 1 KDB50 Machine 6000-410 Model # 64AMA-YE Qty Name 1 T1034-YA 2 T1043 1 T1035 1 T1046-00 1 T1045-00 2 T2012 3 T2014-BT 1 T2015 1 TK70 Tape Drive 2 H7215 Power 3 H7214 Power 1 H7206A Power/Logic Box 1 OH405-E Power Machine 6000-420 Model # 64AMA-YE Qty Name 1 T1034-YA 1 T1012-00 2 T1043 1 T1035 1 T1046-00 1 T1045-00 2 T2012 4 T2014-BJ 1 T2015 1 TK70 Tape Drive 2 H7215 Power 3 H7214 Power 1 H7206A Power/Logic Box 1 OH405-E Power 1 H3033 DMB32 Dist.Panel Machine 6000-420 Model # 64AMA-YE Qty Name 1 T1034-YA 1 T1012-00 2 T1014-00 2 T1043 1 T1035 1 T1046-00 1 T1045-00 2 T2012 5 T2014-BT 2 T2015 1 TK70 Tape Drive 2 H7215 Power 3 H7214 Power 1 H7206A Power/Logic Box 1 OH405-E Power 1 H3033 DMB32 Dist.Panel Machine 6000-510 Model # H9657-CA Qty Name 6 T2020-00 1 MS65A-CA 2 MS65A-DA 1 T2080-00 1 T2052-00 1 H7215 Power 1 H7214 Power 1 H7242 Power 1 H7206 Power/Logic Box 1 OH405-E Power 1 H7236 Rectifier Machine 6000-510 Model # H9657-CA Qty Name 6 T2020-00 1 MS65A-CA 2 MS65A-DA 1 T2080-00 1 T2052-00 1 H7215 Power 1 H7214 Power 1 H7242 Power 1 H7206 Power/Logic Box 1 OH405-E Power 1 H7236 Rectifier Machine 7000-610 Model # 7FAMC-AA Qty Name 1 T2028-AA 1 T2027 1 T2020 1 Expander Module 1 30-36009-01 Power Supply 1 30-36010-01 Power Supply 1 30-33798-01 AC Distribution > Ahem, I take it you know these system units weigh in around 500lbs each > and have factored that in to your $500? Yup. > > The owner claims they were used by NASA, > > Likely. NASA was (still is) a big Digital/Compaq shop and had herds of > Vaxen, which gave way to Alphas. He said they were used at a booster design facility. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 01:39:32 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums References: <200103060846.BAA24929@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: <003101c0a6d9$c0f3efa0$b999b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > >1. They are higher profile that individual enthusiats > >and therefore a magnet for systems that might otherwise > >end up in the dumpster or with scrappers. > > What do you mean by "higher profile"? There are some private > collectors, no doubt, with noble and intelligent motives > rivaling that of some museum staffs. I suppose I meant "more well known," which I probably should have used. > > >2. They tend to be open to the general public making > >the machines accessible to anyone who wants to see > >them. > > What would you suggest is the foremost reason for "seeing" > them? > Well in my case, I find them pleasing to look at. I like seeing, and being able to touch, systems that I have heard about or know about, butI do not own. > >3. They educate the public about the value of > >preserving old computers, and introduce new people to > >the hobby. (I know some may not think this is > >necessarily a good thing.) > > Would you suppose that there are other causes even more > significant than encouraging computers as a hobby through > museum displays? > Of course, but that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it. > >4. The curators tend to be schooled in preservation, > >and while they may not operate their machines, they > >usually keep them safe, dry, etc. > > Private collectors can do the same, if they wish, although > I doubt that many private collectors would enjoy "dead" > machines as well as "live" ones. Yes, they can. I didn't intend that a negative inference be drawn for all collectors. > >6. Museums can sometimes undertake restoration > >projects that require the coordination of people and > >resources that individuals would unlikely be able to > >accomplish on their own, such as those undertaken by > >The Computer Museum History Center located at Moffett > >Airfield. > > Is there a URL for it? Sure: http://www.computerhistory.org/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 7 01:57:41 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <983942755.3aa5c6635e2b6@email.ou.edu> <00d401c0a6ce$ff6bc2e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <983949376.3aa5e040e8ec7@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <00e801c0a6dc$49bb4700$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:46 PM Subject: Re: Value of a small VAX farm Jeffrey, I'll reply in detail when I have checked off all the adapters, but a quick glance shows a couple of interesting things > Machine 6000-310 > Model # 63AMB-YE Plain vanilla 6310 but, > 1 KDB50 SDI standalone disk controller. Add a couple of SDI drives and you have a standalone system. Handles STI tape drives as well. Up to 4 devices. FWIW, 2 x RA9x drives fit very neatly into the bottom shelf of a 6k. > > Machine 6000-410 > Model # 64AMA-YE > Qty Name > 1 T1034-YA CPU seems to have only one, 6000-410 like the labe says. > Machine 6000-420 > Model # 64AMA-YE > Qty Name > 1 T1034-YA Ditto > Machine 6000-420 > Model # 64AMA-YE > Qty Name > 1 T1034-YA Ditto, possibly some cpus removed, but it's possible the other has a different number, there were changes in the numbering of cpu boards for these at one stage IIRC. Will check. > Machine 6000-510 > Model # H9657-CA > Qty Name > 6 T2020-00 Ok, looks to me like it has a full house ie 6 x cpu boards. If so this is a high end 6K. Really a 6000-560. If so it has been upgraded at some time. I need to check the numbers, but that looks like a cpu code off the top of my head. > Machine 6000-510 > Model # H9657-CA > Qty Name > 6 T2020-00 Ditto. 6 cpus I think. > Machine 7000-610 > Model # 7FAMC-AA > Qty Name > 1 T2028-AA Uh, need to check this, but I *think* thats a CPU card. Looks to me like the ram is what's been removed from this. > 1 T2027 > 1 T2020 > 1 Expander Module > 1 30-36009-01 Power Supply > 1 30-36010-01 Power Supply > 1 30-33798-01 AC Distribution > > He said they were used at a booster design facility. High powered number crunching. That fits in with the massive multicpu stuff. I'll post a detailed breakdown once I've checked all the numbers. I think I will have to start a 6000/7000 site, as it seems these are appearing as surplus quite a bit more now and I seem to be the only one playing with them (yet) much outside of commercial useage. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From J4430 at aol.com Wed Mar 7 02:39:30 2001 From: J4430 at aol.com (J4430@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: makefile/embedded sql Message-ID: <18.9c202d2.27d74dc2@aol.com> Hello i'm trying to write a embedded Sql program in C but i don't know how to compile,link and run it. I know you have to write a makefile but i have never done that before and i've looked in books in the store and there is nothing that i've seen to show you or describe how to create the makefile, and run the sql embedded program. Can you help or point me in the right direction to get some help. Thanks, Craig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010307/03077b81/attachment.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 7 03:03:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: New here :-) In-Reply-To: "Geoff Roberts" "Re: New here :-)" (Mar 7, 10:32) References: <200103062313.SAA08642@conman.org> <006901c0a699$ec90e5e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <10103070903.ZM23916@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 7, 10:32, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" > > It was thus said that the Great FBA once stated: > > > > > > >Essentially, this means that 1 Litre of pure water weighs 1Kg and > is > > > >where the basic units came from. > > > > > > 1 Litre will also fit quite nicely in a cube 10cm a side. > > > > At 4 degrees Celcius at sea level, don't forget. Since we're getting all accurate again, .. The kilogram was defined in a way intended to represent the mass of one cubic decimetre of water at its maximum density, and to this end a suitable platinum-iridium cylinder was constructed to be "the standard". But it was later found to be slightly inaccurate, so the definition of the standard was redifined to be the mass of the cylinder. Thus 1 litre doesn't *quite* fit into a cube 10cm a side, being 28 ppm too large :-) In 1964 the litre was redefined for practical purposes to equal a cubic decimetre, but not for work of high precision. An imperial gallon is defined in terms of a mass of water (weighing 10 pounds at a density of 0.988859 grams per cc, ie at 20C, in air at a certain density, against weight of a certain density, all stated in metric units!). > > -spc (Atmospheric presure is measured in millibars, right?) > > Correct. The ISA (International Standard Atmosphere) is 1013.2 > hectopascals (equiv - millibars) @ 20C (hmm or is it 15? been a while > since I did Met.) 15C. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Wed Mar 7 09:05:10 2001 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:01 2005 Subject: Tatung Einstein disks Message-ID: <3AA5F9C4.29625.A7EDB6C@localhost> >> .... My Einstein came with the 80 column add-on .... > I've never seen one, but I've always suspected it was a 6845 + 2K RAM + > character generator + TTL glue logic in the obvious configuration. How > close am I? Not close, exact. The 'MODEL TK02 80 COLUMN MONOCHROME CARD' has: UM 6845 8440 , TMM2016BP-10 , TMS2764JL-45 , a 10Mhz oscillator (may be 16 or 18 - can't quite read it and havn't put a 'scope on it yet) and fifteen 74LSxxx chips. > How much hardware-related info do you have? I can find (easily) things > like connector pinouts, etc. Absolutely none but I'm not looking further than getting an OS at the moment - if it then doesn't work however, I'll remember your kind offer. John Honniball asked about the disks in the Einstein - having now taken them out of the steel box sleeve which every 3.0" drive seems to come in I can report that they are different to the Amstrad PCW8256/8512 drives - whereas the Amstrad are the 'infamous slack belt' drives, the drives in my Einstein are Teac direct drive (hurray!). Doug. From jerryjh at imt.net Wed Mar 7 03:27:57 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103070916.CAA08294@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-06 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >>What would you suggest is the foremost reason for >>"seeing" them? >Well in my case, I find them pleasing to look at. I >like seeing, and being able to touch, systems that I >have heard about or know about, butI do not own. That sounds very much like an individual seeking out autographs in person from celebrities. I don't sense anything particularly educational about that type of experience with computers. >>Would you suppose that there are other causes even >>more significant than encouraging computers as a hobby >>through museum displays? >Of course, but that doesn't mean that there's anything >wrong with it. Neither did I say there was. I asked whether you might suggest "other causes even more significant" than a personal hobby. >>>The Computer Museum History Center located at >>>Moffett Airfield. >>Is there a URL for it? >http://www.computerhistory.org/ Thank you! Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From jerryjh at imt.net Wed Mar 7 03:28:06 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103070916.CAA08314@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-06 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >> have our personal preferences. But let's also determine (at least >> for ourselves) a general principle or two that points to the value >> of classic computers -- more specifically -- their purpose and our >> realistic expectations of them beyond mere entertainment value. >First and foremost : Education. Excellent. Now that we have a general principle with which to begin, how could we expand on it? One thing that comes to my own mind are the lessons we can learn from how our earlier computer and software engineers worked so cleverly with such meager resources, which forced them to create more efficient code and creative shortcuts to avoid wastefulness... >Secondly : Preserving some of the forgotten areas of computing. >Either as examples of what not to do in the future, or as examples >of things that should be tried again (either because the technology >to implement them was not really available years ago and is now, or >because, although there was a suitable replacement, the older >method with newer technology is even better). Wonderful! In this matter, we see eye to eye. I'm all for the idea of constructing new computers built upon the tried and true principles of "frugal" designs. Our classic computers could serve as the inspiration for such possible endeavors. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Wed Mar 7 04:05:08 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <200103070916.CAA08294@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: Hi, everybody ... > That sounds very much like an individual seeking out > autographs in person from celebrities. I don't sense > anything particularly educational about that type of > experience with computers. > > >>Would you suppose that there are other causes even > >>more significant than encouraging computers as a hobby > >>through museum displays? > > >Of course, but that doesn't mean that there's anything > >wrong with it. > > Neither did I say there was. I asked whether you might > suggest "other causes even more significant" than a personal > hobby. I for myself find it useful to see that 'ancient' computers are able to fulfill my 'everyday' computer needs - and perhabs others will see as well that for writing a letter no one needs 1Ghz and 512MB ... and in addition there's a learning effect to deal with systems which can be understood in it's very detail. Sorry for giving my 2 cents, while on the list for only a few minutes ;-) Cheers, Mario From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 6 17:21:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: New here :-) (& OT :) In-Reply-To: <002301c0a65f$d1045580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1575.466T750T214035optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >Yes, they're archaic. They've been with us for a long time, hence it's >terribly difficult for us to let go of them. The ones hardest to give up are >those that are the most convenient. It's much easier for me to consider a >"cup" of water than to think of it as 236.5 ml, or even rounding up to 250 >ml. When you go to the corner pub for a mug of beer, you know about how much >beer that is. You know that if your friend has had three glasses of beer, >he's probably not safe driving his car, though you probably believe that if >you've had three mugs of beer, you're not unable to walk. Your point being what? When I get up in the morning, I drink from a cup, not from a "2,5 dl". That's the measurement, not the container. Besides, what makes the Anglosaxon measurements so particularly unique, apart from their loneliness in the modern world? Every country has had its own odd measures, but have since discarded them. Two hundred years ago, it would be common for a Swedish sailor to sacrifice half a sk?lpund of his own flesh in a bet, but nowadays, most people would agree that he'd be sacrificing some hekto(-grammes) instead. You're free to use a cup as much as you like, just don't use it for exact measures. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. - Hur tar du bilder fr?n TVn? - Jag anv?nder mig av en digitalkamera och fixar s? det blir m?rkt i rummet och kn?pper sedan bilden. - Hur g?r du dina mp3or? - Jag kopplar ett par h?rlurar till TVn, s?tter en mic framf?r h?rlurarna och spelar in med valfritt inspelningsprogram. Jenny Hannula From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 7 04:37:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <7a.1174678c.27d6e238@aol.com> Message-ID: <545.466T2700T6975961optimus@canit.se> SUPRDAVE skrev: > another reason not to use Micros~1 products for email... They only get what they deserve. I find it irritating, though, that the media fail to point out that these viruses only affect MS systems, instead purporting that the virus is universally effective due to the virus programmer's genius, as opposed to the incompetence of M$. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. /* And you'll never guess what the dog had */ /* in its mouth... */ --Larry Wall in stab.c from the perl source code From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Mar 7 06:27:53 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Vax and Dec Need Help! Message-ID: <90.111af496.27d78349@aol.com> Is there someone on the list who would be willing to send me an MMJ serial cable in an effort to get a Vax and a couple Decstations working? For some reason I can't find any local or even semi-local resources for MMJ cables or connectors.. Thanks! -Linc Fessenden. (BTW, I live in Eastern PA) From enrico.badella at softstar.it Wed Mar 7 06:58:51 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! References: <545.466T2700T6975961optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3AA6308B.D2454B24@softstar.it> Iggy Drougge wrote: > > SUPRDAVE skrev: > > > another reason not to use Micros~1 products for email... > > They only get what they deserve. I find it irritating, though, that the media > fail to point out that these viruses only affect MS systems, instead > purporting that the virus is universally effective due to the virus > programmer's genius, as opposed to the incompetence of M$. Well media is always quite partial, but have you ever wondered why medium and top managers in all mager corporations are still committing to m$ products? I'm a consultant in several several multinationals, and I daily see how much effort and thus $$ goes into supporting m$ email products. No bean counter probably has ever taken time to account for HW upgrades, working weekends to clean up m$ only viurs messes. If I were an IT manager and was hit one of these m$ only viri I would send and invoice to Mr. Gates..... yeah I know what they write on the licenses, implicitly admitting that thier products are lemons. Until IT manager 'see one kind of light' all the DOJ work is a waste of USA taxpayer's money Cheers e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From alinder at ProgressLighting.com Wed Mar 7 07:47:15 2001 From: alinder at ProgressLighting.com (Arnie Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: HP-HIL keyboard Message-ID: I just inherited a new toy. An HP 735 192MB ram (2) 1GB drives and 20 in monitor. I was all ready to play, but an important component is missing. Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard for this beast without giving up my first born. I really like him. Or a cheap PS/2 to HP-HIL adapter would be even better. Arnie From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 7 08:26:00 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: makefile/embedded sql Message-ID: <380939515.983975160693.JavaMail.root@web538-wrb> What in the world made you think this group is a C and SQL support resource? Many of us work with both but this is not the place. Allison ------Original Message------ From: J4430@aol.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: March 7, 2001 8:39:30 AM GMT Subject: makefile/embedded sql Hello i'm trying to write a embedded Sql program in C but i don't know how to compile,link and run it. I know you have to write a makefile but i have never done that before and i've looked in books in the store and there is nothing that i've seen to show you or describe how to create the makefile, and run the sql embedded program. Can you help or point me in the right direction to get some help. Thanks, Craig From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 7 08:24:04 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <545.466T2700T6975961optimus@canit.se> References: <7a.1174678c.27d6e238@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? You might as well blame Ford for drunk drivers. I agree that Outlook shouldn't expose its address book, and there's slim reason to encourage the naive, easily-fooled hordes to click on executable attachments, but it's far easier to lob criticism than it is to design full-featured mail programs and operating systems that are virus-proof. - John From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Mar 7 09:07:46 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: new/old computers in radiology (Long) Message-ID: One of the Radiologist's I work with asked me the following question. Which computer would you buy if you were only going to do file transfers and archiving? I answered a VAX/Alpha running VMS since there were no known viruses and that system security was good. My answer was predicated on the fact that he needed storage for medical images and that he needed to maintain complete medical confidentiality. He is totally frustrated with the lack of reliability on Windows NT and is favoring SUN based systems. The trend in radiology is to move toward Windows NT platforms because the companies can't get support staff that can handle anything else. Our biggest problem, since we are a children's hospital is that we must maintain the data for 25 years. Actually 7 years once the child turns 18. In practice we plan never to get rid of any data. Examples of systems in Radiology CT scanner using SGI computer CT workstation using SUN running Solaris Vitrea 3D workstation using Windows NT on HP Kayak computer Laser film printer network running MS-DOS Laser film printer network running LINUX MRI scanner using SUN Film digitizer running on PC using Windows NT Nuclear medicine system with Windows NT, Mac G4, and Linux on PC VME systems embedded in film printers I have 8" floppies from old CT scanners, QIC tapes, DAT tapes, MO disks, 5 1/4 floppies, 3 1/2 floppies, 9 track tapes I was offered from a major US company a radiology image management system the other day that had the following systems. Windows NT display stations Apple Macintosh image archive server Sun webserver and image server I don't think anybody could support and troubleshoot such a system. Their answer is that they support the system today and will provide an upgrade path when they change every 3-4 years. woe-is-me Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Mar 7 09:35:03 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: NeXT MO disks (cleaning) Message-ID: Mark K. said: >Cleaning the disk surface is easy (remember, with disk side A up, the surface >for side A is underneath), so you may as well try that before attempting to >open the drive. If you don't want to buy a purpose-designed disk cleaning kit >you can use a lint-free cloth. Breathe on the disk and carefully wipe >radially, rotate the disk slightly and repeat. Preferably wear some plastic >gloves to prevent skin oils from touching the disk. I once in an optics lab *suggested* (lucky me) breathing on a component to moisten it before wiping. The instructor *yelled* at me (only time) to make sure I didn't carry through. (CO2 + water in your breath = dilute carbonic acid? He didn't amplify on what all is in breath, but he made sure I used IPA or de-ionized water or something after that.) Not knowing the proper solvent, I'd tentatively suggest iso-propyl alcohol, but would avoid breathing on optics (or media) if at all possible. It may be MO disks are sufficiently rugged it makes no difference, but that formative experience has convinced me it's not a good habit to be in. - Mark T. From rdd at smart.net Wed Mar 7 10:19:45 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? "Common" is certainly the right word to use; there's nothing about Microsoft's software that even hints at finesse. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Mar 7 10:35:45 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: new/old computers in radiology (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c0a724$a962f570$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> All I can say is such an open situation sounds like Fun! The first thing that comes to mind is for you to store onto CDR (not CDRW) since once written that storage type is immune to viral damage (I miss the days of hitting a Read-only switch on a HDD). A larger budget? Use DVD-ROM. Not so large? CD-R would probably archive a lot of QIC's. Tape? Too slow. FTP may seem old fashion but handles multivendor archival over IP just fine. Hate to say this because I've certainly loved VMS and Unx all of these years but NT is probably the BMOC for the next 10 years with Linux, via IBM, being a very cool alternative. John A. From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 10:34:00 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm Message-ID: <983982840.3aa662f816741@email.ou.edu> Never mind, the guy called me and said he had already gotten rid of the VAXen. Grrr! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Mar 7 12:39:14 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: new/old computers in radiology (Long) Message-ID: Like any other engineering project, the first logical step is to compile a complete system requirement. Once you really understand what the project expectations are, it's pretty easy to decide on an architecture to support those expectations. To arbitrarily decide what's important to the customer, will certainly lead to failure. For instance: You state that one of the reasons that you would recommend VMS is that there are no known viruses. If viruses are really not a concern for the customer, that should NOT be a factor in the decision making process. After all, they may already have a very secure LAN and experienced administrators. To make architectural decisions based on areas that you perceive as important is a path to disaster. Don't assume that you know what the customer wants and just as importantly, don't assume that the customer knows what they want! On the other hand, if "usability" is one of the primary factors, they may be stuck with NT. As much as we may detest the OS for it's poor reliability, far more people are comfortable with the WIN interface than any other OS. In some environments, it may actually be more acceptible to reboot the system every day or have unexpected failures than to retrain the people that will use the system. Actually, NT used only for data presentation is not all that bad. Once again, that's a business decision that should be addressed in the requirements. My guess: NT for the presentation layer, LINUX or a derivitive with strong device support in the backend. Just my $.02 Steve Robertson >One of the Radiologist's I work with asked me the following question. > >Which computer would you buy if you were only going to do file transfers >and >archiving? I answered a VAX/Alpha running VMS since there were no known >viruses and that system security was good. My answer was predicated on the >fact that he needed storage for medical images and that he needed to >maintain complete medical confidentiality. He is totally frustrated with >the lack of reliability on Windows NT and is favoring SUN based systems. >The trend in radiology is to move toward Windows NT platforms because the >companies can't get support staff that can handle anything else. Our >biggest problem, since we are a children's hospital is that we must >maintain >the data for 25 years. Actually 7 years once the child turns 18. In >practice we plan never to get rid of any data. > >Examples of systems in Radiology > >CT scanner using SGI computer >CT workstation using SUN running Solaris >Vitrea 3D workstation using Windows NT on HP Kayak computer >Laser film printer network running MS-DOS >Laser film printer network running LINUX >MRI scanner using SUN >Film digitizer running on PC using Windows NT >Nuclear medicine system with Windows NT, Mac G4, and Linux on PC >VME systems embedded in film printers > >I have 8" floppies from old CT scanners, QIC tapes, DAT tapes, MO disks, 5 >1/4 floppies, 3 1/2 floppies, 9 track tapes > >I was offered from a major US company a radiology image management system >the other day that had the following systems. >Windows NT display stations >Apple Macintosh image archive server >Sun webserver and image server >I don't think anybody could support and troubleshoot such a system. Their >answer is that they support the system today and will provide an upgrade >path when they change every 3-4 years. > >woe-is-me >Mike >mmcfadden@cmh.edu > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Mar 7 12:51:43 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307134121.00ac9220@popmail.voicenet.com> I received my AC Adaptor for my L40SX and the screen does not come on. Can anybody tell me what the lights and switches mean on the console. I have some symbols showing in some of the little windows. With power on from left to right they show: dark dark right arrow underlined % sign vertical bar up arrow up arrow box which could be a screen symbol dark With power off the right arrow shows a battery and all of the others are dark On the right of the screen there are two slide bars one labeled with a shining sun the other like a half moon. Neither seems to do anything Any help would be appreciated. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 7 13:07:42 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <983982840.3aa662f816741@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AA686FE.B782555F@internet1.net> He didn't trash them did he.... if he did lets shoot him! I wish I had a big Vax. I might be able to get a hold of a MVax 3600, but one of those 6000s would have been better :-) I don't know much about them, but it is a platform I would like to know more about. I had an account on a Vax cluster in college, and liked it a lot. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Never mind, the guy called me and said he had already gotten rid of the VAXen. > Grrr! > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Wed Mar 7 13:37:17 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? Message-ID: Hi, I am interested in old computers especially in i286 (PC/AT)class computers. I am looking for a multitasking OS which uses the capabilities of this CPU like memory protection, 16MB address space, etc. I only found Xenix/286 which take advantage of this 286 features or are there other ones as well? Is it still possible to find copies for this version of Xenix? Thanks in advance Mario Premke From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Mar 7 13:52:22 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: IBM System 36 Message-ID: There are a number of different variants but, that sounds a lot like my /36. Basically, the entire system is one box (box ass tower) with integral HDs, I/O, tape drive (optional), and 8" floppy drive. I think most of the HDs are in the 60-90MB range. All external devices including the console are connected through a twinax cable. IIRC, mine has several (4) coax connectors on the rear panel. I don't recall the terminal type but, I think they are common IBM twinax terminals. I see the terminals on Ebay fairly often. As I recall, they go pretty cheap. Since the HDs are internal and the systems are not likely to be under maintenance, it's not too difficult to find a 36 with the OS still installed. The one I collected came with all the original install disks so passwords weren't an issue. The lack of an available OS has certainly dissuaded me from bothering with any 400 stuff. I messed around with the box when I first got it but, it really didn't seem all that interesting so, I stuck it in the garage. I'm sure a number of other collectors s on this list also have a /36? Steve Robertson >From: Chad Fernandez >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: IBM System 36 >Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:15:17 -0500 > >Last time I went to the surplus electronic shop that I visit. I saw >what was labeled as being a System 36. It was basically a really over >grown full tower, with a few other peripherals. Did I see the whole >unit, or just a small part? Would this be something I could do >something with? Does any freeware exist? How about the OS.... is it >around, and attainable? What kind of processing horsepower does it >have? > >I didn't really look at it, while I was there. I knew they are the >ancestor to the AS400, and the AS400 is sort of a white elephant for the >hobbyist. > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 7 12:47:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? > You might as well blame Ford for drunk drivers. I agree that Outlook > shouldn't expose its address book, and there's slim reason to > encourage the naive, easily-fooled hordes to click on executable > attachments, but it's far easier to lob criticism than it is to design > full-featured mail programs and operating systems that are > virus-proof. If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 7 14:00:30 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: L40SX questions Message-ID: <8d.3575cd4.27d7ed5e@aol.com> In a message dated 3/7/01 1:07:48 PM Central Standard Time, gehrich@tampabay.rr.com writes: << I received my AC Adaptor for my L40SX and the screen does not come on. Can anybody tell me what the lights and switches mean on the console. I have some symbols showing in some of the little windows. With power on from left to right they show: dark dark right arrow underlined % sign vertical bar up arrow up arrow box which could be a screen symbol dark With power off the right arrow shows a battery and all of the others are dark On the right of the screen there are two slide bars one labeled with a shining sun the other like a half moon. Neither seems to do anything >> does your hard drive spin up? any flicker from the LCD? does the floppy seek? what if the battery is removed? Since you have a mono LCD those slider bars just adjust the brightness and contrast. I forgot what the switches do as my L40 is put away. One thing you might want to check is to make sure the computer hasnt been in any environmental extremes. It will not turn on if temperature or humidity is excessive. Once it acclimates to room temp it would function normally. see one of hundreds of computers, or a hot rod pinto at: www.nothingtodo.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 7 14:01:43 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? Message-ID: <6.1315e05c.27d7eda7@aol.com> In a message dated 3/7/01 1:52:14 PM Central Standard Time, mapr0003@stud.uni-sb.de writes: << Hi, I am interested in old computers especially in i286 (PC/AT)class computers. I am looking for a multitasking OS which uses the capabilities of this CPU like memory protection, 16MB address space, etc. I only found Xenix/286 which take advantage of this 286 features or are there other ones as well? Is it still possible to find copies for this version of Xenix? Thanks in advance >> not sure of xenix, but why not try OS/2? Version 1.3 can still be found and will run on as little as 2 meg I believe. david, OS/2 user From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 7 14:14:51 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: IBM System 36 References: <3AA5A7C5.84600E8C@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AA696BB.C60F30DF@internet1.net> I haven't seen any replies to this yet, anybody know anything about it at all? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Last time I went to the surplus electronic shop that I visit. I saw > what was labeled as being a System 36. It was basically a really over > grown full tower, with a few other peripherals. Did I see the whole > unit, or just a small part? Would this be something I could do > something with? Does any freeware exist? How about the OS.... is it > around, and attainable? What kind of processing horsepower does it > have? > > I didn't really look at it, while I was there. I knew they are the > ancestor to the AS400, and the AS400 is sort of a white elephant for the > hobbyist. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 14:16:10 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: <3AA686FE.B782555F@internet1.net> References: <983982840.3aa662f816741@email.ou.edu> <3AA686FE.B782555F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <983996170.3aa6970a0a862@email.ou.edu> > He didn't trash them did he.... if he did lets shoot him! Someone got to him sooner. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 7 12:58:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <1137.466T650T11984231optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? Becuase they make worthless manure, that's why! >You might as well blame Ford for drunk drivers. I agree that Outlook >shouldn't expose its address book, and there's slim reason to encourage >the naive, easily-fooled hordes to click on executable attachments, but >it's far easier to lob criticism than it is to design full-featured >mail programs and operating systems that are virus-proof. It's rather like blaming Ford for equipping their cars qith worthless tyres which explode when stressed. A short list of M$ Outlook's crimes: *HTML pollution *HTML/Javascript "virus" weaknesses *Non-standard reply headers like SV: and R: *Upside down replys without proper attribution lines or quoting tags The second point is only destructive for Outlook users themselves, whereas points one, three and four are making the net a less pleasant place for the rest of us. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." -- m3000 From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 7 14:31:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? References: Message-ID: <3AA69A91.C2929A1D@internet1.net> Check SCO. I think they have some old versions of Xenix that are downloadable. I think they are labeled "historic" or "Ancient". Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mario Premke wrote: > > Hi, I am interested in old computers especially in i286 (PC/AT)class > computers. I am looking for a multitasking OS which uses the capabilities > of this CPU like memory protection, 16MB address space, etc. > I only found Xenix/286 which take advantage of this 286 features or are > there other ones as well? > Is it still possible to find copies for this version of Xenix? > > Thanks in advance > > Mario Premke From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 7 14:37:37 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: IBM System 36 References: Message-ID: <3AA69C11.72BD5E4A@internet1.net> Hello Steve! Steve Robertson wrote: > > There are a number of different variants but, that sounds a lot like my /36. > Basically, the entire system is one box (box ass tower) with integral HDs, > I/O, tape drive (optional), and 8" floppy drive. I think most of the HDs are > in the 60-90MB range. Hmm, I actually have some blank 8" floppies. What type are those HDs, SCSI? > All external devices including the console are connected through a twinax > cable. IIRC, mine has several (4) coax connectors on the rear panel. I don't > recall the terminal type but, I think they are common IBM twinax terminals. > I see the terminals on Ebay fairly often. As I recall, they go pretty cheap. What about using a terminal emulator? When you say "all devices", does that mean no serial ports? > > Since the HDs are internal and the systems are not likely to be under > maintenance, it's not too difficult to find a 36 with the OS still > installed. The one I collected came with all the original install disks so > passwords weren't an issue. The lack of an available OS has certainly > dissuaded me from bothering with any 400 stuff. I'll have to check for disks. It had a pile of stuff on top. How many disks are we talking about, approx? > > I messed around with the box when I first got it but, it really didn't seem > all that interesting so, I stuck it in the garage. > > I'm sure a number of other collectors s on this list also have a /36? Thanks Steve! I suppose it wouldn't hurt for me to at least take a look at it, next time.... if it is still there! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 7 14:47:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: Re: Value of a small VAX farm (Chad Fernandez) References: <983982840.3aa662f816741@email.ou.edu> <3AA686FE.B782555F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15014.40523.65720.946193@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 7, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I wish I had a big Vax. Feel like renting a truck and driving to Maryland? I'm almost in the mood to send my 8700 on to a better home. -Dave McGuire From peter at joules.org Wed Mar 7 15:07:25 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010306201959.41a78e48@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > >STRICOM has received official notification of a new virus in the wild called > >the Naked Wife Virus. > > These mail viruses are one good reason for reading mail using pine on my Linux box, by telnet from the Windoze machine ;-) -- Regards Pete From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 15:05:14 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? (1) Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a result of the product's quality. (2) Their products are designed for idiots. Computers are tools for smart people. Should we let evolution gradually filter out stupid people from the species, or should we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby limiting the power of the species as a whole? (3) Their software engineers have given far too much design control to their marketing droids. (4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 15:25:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Hi, I am interested in old computers especially in i286 (PC/AT)class >computers. I am looking for a multitasking OS which uses the capabilities >of this CPU like memory protection, 16MB address space, etc. >I only found Xenix/286 which take advantage of this 286 features or are >there other ones as well? >Is it still possible to find copies for this version of Xenix? Didn't Mark Williams' Coherent run on 286 boxes, or was it strictly 386 and above? I messed with it a little 11-12 years ago and had it running on a generic 386SX-16 box with 4meg of RAM and a 40meg HD. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 15:35:23 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983940679.3aa5be477ff99@email.ou.edu> References: <1526.465T650T9644763optimus@canit.se> <983940679.3aa5be477ff99@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: >You're right. In most museums, a hands-on display is a recipe for >disaster. A >better model for hands-on in my opinion would be something akin to a >scientific >laboratory: only those of demonstratably sufficient merit are allowed touch >access to the machines. This would be more a thing to be implemented by >enthusiasts' clubs, but it would provide an opportunity for learning to those >who wish it, even as the years pass and working machines become even >more rare. One aspect that makes considerable difference but that hasn't been brought up yet is software. If an original machine is put on display for hands-on use, and is one that depends on floppy, magnetic or paper tape for program storage and input, how is the storage media to be safeguarded? One certainly couldn't allow just anyone that wished to do so to come along and handle it, otherwise it'd be useless in a very short time. If the visitors weren't allowed access to the media though it would somewhat defeat the purpose of trying to keep the hardware running for educational use. Again, this is where something like the use of emulators would be useful since a considerable amount of software could be made available to the visitor, in the form of disk images, while not putting the original media type at risk. I for one wouldn't wish to put my North Star hard sectored diskettes or a paper tape of the Cromemco Z80 monitor program out for general use and as each year goes by these types of items will be that much harder to make identical working copies of. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 7 13:41:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <200103070916.CAA08314@cu.imt.net> from "jerryjh@imt.net" at Mar 7, 1 02:28:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010307/e07e486e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 7 13:47:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <983940679.3aa5be477ff99@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 6, 1 10:51:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1743 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010307/aa73cdc5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 7 14:21:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Tatung Einstein disks In-Reply-To: <3AA5F9C4.29625.A7EDB6C@localhost> from "DOUG PEKSA - COMPG" at Mar 7, 1 09:05:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4960 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010307/de5542cd/attachment.ksh From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Mar 7 16:02:33 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c0a752$50432b30$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> My vote is for no *open* hands on displays except to interact with the old software through faked or "new" keyboards, etc. An exception is to allow experienced users to do hands on at special events, or with a tourguide's permission. The example I have is Science Museum, Boston. The computer display had the KB set up with a 1/2" plexiglass shield through which the visitor had to type down through to reach the keycaps. Somebody still managed to pry off many of the caps. Think Zoo, unfortunately. John A. From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Mar 7 16:07:04 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: > > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? >Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a result of the >product's quality. Well... I happen to be a quality engineer and I strongly disagree with your assertion that MS does not produce quality software. So in order to get this discussion on an intellectual tract, I'd be curious as to your definition of software quality, and the specific attributes that define it? >(2) Their products are designed for idiots. Computers are tools for smart >people. Should we let evolution gradually filter out stupid people from >the species, or should we allow them to be our least common denominator, >thereby limiting the power of the species as a whole? So... I'm an idiot because I use MS products? I also take exception to your assertion that computers are for "smart" people. Let's see... Not so many years ago, the consensus was that freedom was only for white people, that voting was only for men, and [fill in the blank with your favorite excluded activity / group]. There was also a time where you had to be a mechanic in order to drive because the cars were unrelyable and difficult to maintain. Should we exclude every one from driving that can't rebuild an engine or tear down a transmission. Let's see... Like the rest of us, you probably watch TV on occassion. Is there anyone on this list (Tony excluded) that could build one from scratch? Does that mean no-one else should be allowed to watch TV? Let's see... If you can't cook, you shouldn't be allowed to eat... If you can't sew, you shouldn't be allowed to wear clothes... If you can't swim, you shuldn't be allowed to bathe... >(3) Their software engineers have given far too much design control to >their marketing droids. Bull Shit... Without marketing, WINDOWS would have a f***ing command line interface and only the eliteist "smart" people (like yourself) would be entitled to use it. Marketing is just as important to software engineering as developers are. Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Mar 7 16:23:40 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 7, 2001 04:25:30 pm" Message-ID: <200103072223.OAA16825@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > >Hi, I am interested in old computers especially in i286 (PC/AT)class > >computers. I am looking for a multitasking OS which uses the capabilities > >of this CPU like memory protection, 16MB address space, etc. > >I only found Xenix/286 which take advantage of this 286 features or are > >there other ones as well? > >Is it still possible to find copies for this version of Xenix? > > Didn't Mark Williams' Coherent run on 286 boxes, or was it > strictly 386 and above? I messed with it a little 11-12 years ago > and had it running on a generic 386SX-16 box with 4meg of RAM and a > 40meg HD. Depends upon the version. There was a version for 8086 before the 286 version. For a 286 operating system I would suggest Minix. It has the same 64k code+64k data process limitations that coherent did. It's nearly open source, and (last time I checked) it's more stable than ELKS. (The embeddable linux kernel subset). Did Xenix support huge model, or was it also 64k+64k? I'd also check out OS/2 1.X, which definitely supported huge model, but was single user. Eric From azog at azog.org Wed Mar 7 16:34:51 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Microsoft bashing References: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <004d01c0a756$d4a0ade0$0a00a8c0@azog> I changed the topic. My mail server rejected the posting because it claims to contain a variant of the LoveLetter virus. > > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? > > (1) Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a result of the > product's quality. Their products are the result of one man's business acumen. I won't argue the worthness/worthlessness of Microsoft products, that's an exercise in futility. Microsoft was in the right place at the right time. Had it been otherwise, we'd probably be running CP/M-2001 and complaining about the same thing. > > (2) Their products are designed for idiots. Computers are tools for smart > people. Should we let evolution gradually filter out stupid people from the > species, or should we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby > limiting the power of the species as a whole? I have no belief in evolution, but this arguement is silly. You can apply this to any technology. Would you have been at Gutenberg's door with torches and pitchforks, shouting that books were for "smart people"? Do you blame him for giving stupid people access to what had traditionally been reserved for the realm of the universities? Under this argument, we should also blame the likes of IBM, or Commodore, Apple and Atari for bringing computing to the masses? Blame Microsoft all you want, and remember that these machines also ran Microsoft products. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Mar 7 16:38:14 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Mar 7, 1 03:05:14 pm" Message-ID: <200103072238.OAA09626@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > (4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. Britney Spears does have a nice software package, yes. Wait, am I allowed to say that with the microphone on? ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Test-tube babies shouldn't throw stones. ----------------------------------- From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 7 16:39:44 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <983982840.3aa662f816741@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <004301c0a757$820da6e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "ClassicCmp Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 3:04 AM Subject: Re: Value of a small VAX farm > Never mind, the guy called me and said he had already gotten rid of the VAXen. > Grrr! Indeed.. Someone else knew what they were as well. I hope. Cheers Geoff From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 7 16:50:42 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <983982840.3aa662f816741@email.ou.edu> <3AA686FE.B782555F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <005101c0a759$0a620da0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 5:37 AM Subject: Re: Value of a small VAX farm > He didn't trash them did he.... if he did lets shoot him! > > I wish I had a big Vax. I might be able to get a hold of a MVax 3600, > but one of those 6000s would have been better :-) I don't know much > about them, but it is a platform I would like to know more about. I had > an account on a Vax cluster in college, and liked it a lot. Someone earlier in this thread said that they were often given away these days. (At least in the US) so a word on the list might be worthwhile. They are probably the only really large vaxen that it is practical to run in a home environment for any length of time. The 400's and above are quite fast compared to the Microvaxen that are about, and they do SMP. Also much easier to add/subtract adapters from without fiddling with grant cards as in Q-Bus boxes. The 6000 Jeffrey mentioned with the 6 cpus and the KDB50 from the 310 would have made a VERY slick standalone machine. FWIW, a system like that, brand new, (early 90's) would have been worth on the order of $500,000. (without drives) Cheers Geoff From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 16:53:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>(3) Their software engineers have given far too much design control >>to their marketing droids. > >Bull Shit... Without marketing, WINDOWS would have a f***ing command >line interface and only the eliteist "smart" people (like yourself) >would be entitled to use it. Marketing is just as important to >software engineering as developers are. I believe that the point of his statement was that marketing has played too large of a role in the popularity of MS products and in thier design without the substance to back it all up. If there's one thing MS has proved itself to be a master of it's marketing and the media. I'm another that would hardly call thier products 'quality' driven. They've proven that marketing will sell even the lamest thing while the lack of it will sink even the best of ideas. Both Commodore and Atari learned that lesson the hard way while Sony is another company that uses it to great advantage and has the deep pockets to do so. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 16:56:47 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984005807.3aa6bcafed649@email.ou.edu> > > better model for hands-on in my opinion would be something akin to a > > scientific laboratory: only those of demonstratably sufficient merit > > are allowed touch access to the machines. > Question : How would you judge if somebody had 'sufficient merit' to > work on the machines? That would be up to the machines' owners and would vary widely. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 7 17:04:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: <200103072223.OAA16825@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <200103072223.OAA16825@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: > > Didn't Mark Williams' Coherent run on 286 boxes, or was it >> strictly 386 and above? I messed with it a little 11-12 years ago >> and had it running on a generic 386SX-16 box with 4meg of RAM and a >> 40meg HD. > >Depends upon the version. There was a version for 8086 before the >286 version. Now that you mention it, you're right. That was the reason I picked it up, because of it's light hardware requirements for a Unix-type OS. It was also reasonably priced. I saw a positive review of it in one of the big IBM-PC magazines and ordered it. I wouldn't mind finding a complete Coherent package again...I have no idea whatever happened to the one I had. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Mar 7 17:04:56 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:02 2005 Subject: What used these? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010307170456.008ee720@ubanproductions.com> I picked these up a number of years ago and in sorting through some of my stuff, I rediscovered them. They seem to be an early version of a 3.5" floppy disk system, before what we know today as a 3.5" floppy became standard. http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette1.jpg http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette2.jpg http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette3.jpg http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette_disks.jpg Note, one of the disks is labeled 3 1/4". The fact that Dysan made a disk for this thing leads me to believe that someone must have used it. The markings on the drive are: Tabor Corp. Westford MA Drivette Microfloppy Disk Drive Model TC500 If anyone knows what this drive was used in (if anything), I would be interested in knowing. --tom From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 7 17:11:58 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Nuke Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> References: Message-ID: >> Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? Millions of people make a very good living off the nasty bug ridden software microsoft creates, either through sales of replacements, or support of the current mess. Most of these people are not stupid, ie like the person that pursuaded an office to convert to macs, and was fired 6 months later when they had no need for a full time support person. Microsoft cultivates this mercenary corp very carefully, and gives it lots of perks etc. If you get on the mailing list you will get plenty of offers for seminars, both free and paid, that will show you how to make a LOT of money promoting MS software. I'm not even suggesting these people are in any way dishonest, they get a thorough brainwashing on the microsoft way. The more saavy people are a bit cynical, pointing out the huge holes in new MS products among themselves, with comments like "this ones going to buy me a new BMW". From azog at azog.org Wed Mar 7 17:30:04 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: off topic: lk401 Message-ID: <001d01c0a75e$8ccbba20$0a00a8c0@azog> has anyone got a spare lk401? The spacebar on mine is acting up, the return spring doesn't work properly, and I'll get random spaces in the middle of typing. Very annoying. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 7 17:24:15 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <200103072238.OAA09626@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Mar 7, 1 03:05:14 pm" Message-ID: >> (4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. > >Britney Spears does have a nice software package, yes. Wait, am I allowed to >say that with the microphone on? Speaking of virus, I just want to get that "oops I did it again" song out of my head. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 7 17:48:41 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! References: Message-ID: <009701c0a761$240445e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Virus Alert !!! > I believe that the point of his statement was that marketing > has played too large of a role in the popularity of MS products and > in thier design without the substance to back it all up. My biggest hate thing against Microsoft is not that the software has bugs, but that they want the end users to pay them for fixing it. "$25 per problem, can I have your credit card number please" when you call support. (I won't. Ever. I don't even *have* a credit card, nor does the school AFAIK) I find the concept of selling something with faults, this is common enough in software (I won't hold this as a Microsoft only flaw) but that they have the unmitigated gall to CHARGE the people they sold the product to in the first place, for ms to repair what's broken. This is like buying a fridge, taking it home, and having the light globe continually blow, calling the manufacturer, and being told that "This is a common problem, we charge $25 for solutions, can I have your credit card number please?" Yeah, right. Though perhaps Windows has more bugs than it should, it's global popularity means they are certainly noticed more. I *know* Windows and some of it's apps are broken in many places, and has memory leaks (amongst other things). If you leave a windows box with Outlook Express open over a weekend, it will be slow as an XT on Monday morning, until you get sick of it and reboot, or it locks up and you have to reboot anyway. Done this by accident a couple of times, obviously not a good procedure with an MS based box, but it STILL SHOULDN'T DO IT. VMS systems (with or without Decwindows) can have up times measurable in years without stuff eating all available system resources. A respectable O/S should not permit this to occur. What I *like* about windows and it's companion apps like Office, Outlook Express (not forgeting it's virus vulnerabilities though) is the user interface. It's a relatively easy to use system, for some very complex and powerful apps, (word has features most of us never use or need). It's fair to say if Windows worked as well as the interface looks, Bill would be God, and everyone will be happy. I guess that's it's biggest fault, it doesn't work as well as it looks like it should. My 0.02c worth. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 If there's > one thing MS has proved itself to be a master of it's marketing and > the media. I'm another that would hardly call thier products > 'quality' driven. They've proven that marketing will sell even the > lamest thing while the lack of it will sink even the best of ideas. > Both Commodore and Atari learned that lesson the hard way while Sony > is another company that uses it to great advantage and has the deep > pockets to do so. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From owad at applefritter.com Wed Mar 7 18:06:28 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010308000628.11743@mail.lafayette.edu> >('The DIR command >on this computer doesn't print a directory, it's Delete I-nodes >Recursively and will wipe the entire filesystem' would tell me NOT to >type DIR under any circumstances!) Are there any commands like that? That is, are there any exceedingly mundane commands on some systems that have exceedingly jeopardous results on other systems? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 18:05:44 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Microsoft (Was: Virus Alert !!!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984009944.3aa6ccd8b5bda@email.ou.edu> > > > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and > > > common? > > > > Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a > > result of the product's quality. > > Well... I happen to be a quality engineer and I strongly disagree > with your assertion that MS does not produce quality software. So > in order to get this discussion on an intellectual tract, I'd be > curious as to your definition of software quality, and the specific > attributes that define it? Right. When we ask "what is quality?" we run inevitably into a unsolvable semantic debate. My personal definition of 'quality' is kind of fuzzy; I believe Microsoft's products lack it for many reasons, including the following: (0) They are too big. (1) They are too slow. (2) They are too buggy. (3) They are too ustable. (4) They don't use open standards. (5) They claim to use open standards, but instead use 'embraced and extended' (read: raped) ones that are 'strategically documented'. (7) They assume you are an idiot. (8) They have inadequate documentation. (9) WTF is up with their versioning? JEEZ! > > (2) Their products are designed for idiots. > > So... I'm an idiot because I use MS products? No. A man can wear diapers, but that does not make him a baby. > > Computers are tools for smart people. Should we let evolution > > gradually filter out stupid people from the species, or should > > we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby > > limiting the power of the species as a whole? > > I also take exception to your assertion that computers are for "smart" > people. Let's see... Not so many years ago, the consensus was that > freedom was only for white people, that voting was only for men, and > [fill in the blank with your favorite excluded activity / group]. True, until the oppressors learned that there was nothing that made the oppressed any less fit for survival. An non-white person can do anything a white person can do, and a woman can do anything that a man can do. Stupid people, on the other hand, *cannot* do everything that a smart person can do. Certainly, there should not be laws to explicitly limit the rights of stupid people, but there most definitely should be a limit on what is done to make their life easier. > There was also a time where you had to be a mechanic in order to > drive because the cars were unrelyable and difficult to maintain. > Should we exclude every one from driving that can't rebuild an > engine or tear down a transmission. No, but they *are* effectively excluded from rebuilding their engine or tearing down their transmission. > Let's see... Like the rest of us, you probably watch TV on > occassion. Is there anyone on this list (Tony excluded) that could > build one from scratch? Does that mean no-one else should be allowed > to watch TV? Let's see... If you can't cook, you shouldn't be > allowed to eat... If you can't sew, you shouldn't be allowed to wear > clothes... If you can't swim, you shuldn't be allowed to bathe... It's not really about what should be _allowed_, but about what can be _done_. If you can't build a TV from scratch, then you probably can't, well, build a TV from scratch. If you can't cook, you probably can't cook. If you can't swim, you probably can't swim. If any of these seriously interfered with your fitness to survive (as intelligence does), then you would be on the losing end of the evolutionary spectrum. > > (3) Their software engineers have given far too much design > > control to their marketing droids. > > Bull Shit... Without marketing, WINDOWS would have a f***ing command > line interface and only the eliteist "smart" people (like yourself) > would be entitled to use it. Microsoft would have then striven to make more *powerful* products instead of things like Bob or MSN, and we would be doing much more with computers than we are now. > Marketing is just as important to software engineering as developers > are. No they aren't. I can 'engineer' equally good programs with or without the presence of marketroids -- if they stay out of my way. If they try to interfere, inevitably the quality of the result is decreased. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 7 18:12:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: "Shirt pocket diskettes" (was: What used these? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010307170456.008ee720@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: NO, they are NOT an early version of a 3.5" any more than saying that a 1885 Benz or 1896 Durye or 1890s Oldsmobile was an early version of a FORD. At one point, it became obvious that the next generation of diskettes would be smaller than 5.25", and would probably be shirt pocket size. There were several that came out: 3" (think Amstrad) 3.25" (Dysan) 3.5" (Sony) 3.9" (IBM) The journalists argued long and hard over which was the "best" of the "shirt pocket disks", and therefore would "obviously" win out. George Morrow suggested that the computer industry should cut a deal with the clothing industry to make shirt pockets 5.25" (8" anyone?). Dysan, who was the foremost diskette manufacturer, did not like the 3" and 3.5" designs, since that would require MAJOR retooling. So they came out with the 3.25", which was simply a smaller version of a 5.25", and would require MUCH less re-tooling to produce in their existing factories. But how to influence the outcome of which would become the "standard"? George Morrow said that standards are great - everyone should have a unique one of their own. BTW, does anyone have a copy of "Quotations of Chairman Morrow"? I'd like to buy one, or at least get a duplicate of the text of it. Dysan "knew" that whichever one had software distributed on it would become the standard. So they bet the company on a daring venture. They started a software publishing business! They went around to the larger software companies and cut distribution deals. For a while, you could buy ANY major program on 3.25" diskette! The Seequa Chameleon 325 was the only machine that I know of that used a 3.25" drive, and I've never seen one of them. Everybody else waited to see what everybody else would do. The inertia kept the critical mass from ever coming about. There were a lot of 3.25" drives and diskettes made. Many more than computers that used them. Dysan never completely recovered. Meanwhile, Amstrad went with the 3" diskette. Amdek marketed an external 3" drive unit for use with Aplle ][ and RS Coco. The earliest models of the Gavilan used 3". I'm not sure, but I think that some Japanese models of Canon may have also used the 3". IBM showed the 3.9" at trade shows, but apparently never got around to ever selling any. I think that the diskettes and drives were by Brown and Tabor. But when HP, Apple, and then IBM went with 3.5", the "standard" was sealed; the others were doomed, and it became clear that technological superiority was NOT necessarily the controlling factor of what would win out. Note that there have been some minor changes in the 3.5" diskettes. The earliest ones were without shutters. Then there was a "manual" shutter that you had to slide open and closed. Then a semi-automatic one that you had to slide open, and you pinched the corner to release a latch to let a spring close the shutter. Look for the word "pinch" on some of them. Many current diskettes still have a vestigial arrow pointing to which corner you had to pinch, although now that arrow purportedly is to tell you which end of the diskette to put into the drive. Later on, there was a similar (unresolved) battle between 3 or 4 different 2.5" and 2.9" formats. (Zenith, TEC, ...) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I picked these up a number of years ago and in sorting through > some of my stuff, I rediscovered them. They seem to be an early > version of a 3.5" floppy disk system, before what we know today > as a 3.5" floppy became standard. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette1.jpg > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette2.jpg > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette3.jpg > http://www.ubanproductions.com/Images/drivette_disks.jpg > > Note, one of the disks is labeled 3 1/4". > > The fact that Dysan made a disk for this thing leads me to > believe that someone must have used it. > > The markings on the drive are: > > Tabor Corp. > Westford MA > Drivette Microfloppy Disk Drive > Model TC500 > > If anyone knows what this drive was used in (if anything), I > would be interested in knowing. > > --tom From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 18:16:24 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Microsoft bashing In-Reply-To: <004d01c0a756$d4a0ade0$0a00a8c0@azog> References: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> <004d01c0a756$d4a0ade0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <984010584.3aa6cf588305d@email.ou.edu> > I have no belief in evolution, but this arguement is silly. You can > apply this to any technology. Would you have been at Gutenberg's > door with torches and pitchforks, shouting that books were for > "smart people"? Do you blame him for giving stupid people access to > what had traditionally been reserved for the realm of the > universities? Just because you're not at university does not mean that you are stupid. > Under this argument, we should also blame the likes of IBM, or > Commodore, Apple and Atari for bringing computing to the masses? No, because the masses aren't necessarily stupid. I would argue that those machines were more about bringing the masses cheaper machines, so that more smart people would be able to learn about computing. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 7 18:18:52 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <20010308000628.11743@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: > >('The DIR command > >on this computer doesn't print a directory, it's Delete I-nodes > >Recursively and will wipe the entire filesystem' would tell me NOT to > >type DIR under any circumstances!) > Are there any commands like that? That is, are there any exceedingly > mundane commands on some systems that have exceedingly jeopardous results > on other systems? "WIN" From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 7 17:45:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <000101c0a752$50432b30$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: <849.467T1150T454603optimus@canit.se> John Allain skrev: >My vote is for no *open* hands on displays >except to interact with the old software >through faked or "new" keyboards, etc. Why? Most units are after all repairable or replaceable. >The example I have is Science Museum, Boston. >The computer display had the KB set up with a >1/2" plexiglass shield through which the visitor >had to type down through to reach the keycaps. >Somebody still managed to pry off many of the >caps. Think Zoo, unfortunately. My experience at the Hogia museum didn't prove much wear on the units, and who cares if a VIC machine is destroyed once every six months? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. echo "Hmmm...you don't have Berkeley networking in libc.a..." echo "but the Wollongong group seems to have hacked it in." --Larry Wall in Configure from the perl distribution From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 7 18:07:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3207.467T1050T674719optimus@canit.se> Steve Robertson skrev: >> > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? >>Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a result of the >>product's quality. >Well... I happen to be a quality engineer and I strongly disagree with your >assertion that MS does not produce quality software. So in order to get this >discussion on an intellectual tract, I'd be curious as to your definition of >software quality, and the specific attributes that define it? Quality of a thing is measured against its peers. >>(2) Their products are designed for idiots. Computers are tools for smart >>people. Should we let evolution gradually filter out stupid people from >>the species, or should we allow them to be our least common denominator, >>thereby limiting the power of the species as a whole? >So... I'm an idiot because I use MS products? Yes. >I also take exception to your assertion that computers are for "smart" >people. Let's see... Not so many years ago, the consensus was that freedom >was only for white people, that voting was only for men, and [fill in the >blank with your favorite excluded activity / group]. Well, there is no need to be smart to use a computer. Less smart people have been using computers at least since the sixties. Or rather, they have been using specific applications, or Macs. >There was also a time where you had to be a mechanic in order to drive >because the cars were unrelyable and difficult to maintain. Should we >exclude every one from driving that can't rebuild an engine or tear down a >transmission. Let's see... Like the rest of us, you probably watch TV on >occassion. Is there anyone on this list (Tony excluded) that could build one >from scratch? Does that mean no-one else should be allowed to watch TV? The problem is that Microsoft actually make software which is disruptive to the environment into which is introduced. As for an M$ car, it sounds very much like the Trabant. Driven by an entire people, built out of plywood. Cars can be lethal, that's why there are driving licences. You actually aren't allowed to drive a car if you haven't got a licence. TV is a one-way medium. The only thing you hurt while watching is your own brain. M$ email is detrimental to the brains of others, however. >Let's see... If you can't cook, you shouldn't be allowed to eat... If you >can't sew, you shouldn't be allowed to wear clothes... If you can't swim, >you shuldn't be allowed to bathe... It's more a matter of being able to user utensils properly in order to eat, or being able to tie your shoelaces in order to wear shoes, than actually fabricating them. >>(3) Their software engineers have given far too much design control to >>their marketing droids. >Bull Shit... Without marketing, WINDOWS would have a f***ing command line >interface and only the eliteist "smart" people (like yourself) would be >entitled to use it. Marketing is just as important to software engineering >as developers are. But it shouldn't be. Why should it? And what's wrong with a command line? And why would smart people use Windows? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 7 18:17:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <20010308000628.11743@mail.lafayette.edu> from "Tom Owad" at Mar 7, 1 07:06:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/1b9b9956/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 7 18:26:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: "Shirt pocket diskettes" (was: What used these? In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 7, 1 04:12:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1946 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/d89cad87/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 7 18:29:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 7, 1 04:18:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/dd23c5c6/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 7 19:00:35 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: "Shirt pocket diskettes" (was: What used these? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > 3" (think Amstrad) On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I don't think Amstrad designed the drive. They just used it. I think it > was a Japanese design -- certainly Hitachi made some of the early drives. > Most of the disks I have seem to be Maxell. Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that the drive was made by Amstrad, just that for most (USA) members of this list, the Amstrad is the machine that they would be familiar with that used such a drive. > The Tatung Einstein (a machine that's been discussed here recently) has 1 > 3" drive as standrd, and a space for a second one. It was almost unique > among UK home computers in that there was no tape interface (or a similar > machine with a tape interface) -- disks were standard. > The (somewhat uncommon) disk drive for the Oric was also a 3" unit. > After the 3.5" drive became the 'standard', 3" drives were available > fairly cheaply over here (a lot cheaper than 5.25" or 3.5" units). > Various companies made external drive units (there was certainly one for > the BBC micro) using 3" drive. Thank you for the additions to the 3" list! > FWIW, the 3" disk is a much nicer mechanical design than the 3.5" disk. > The shutter of the latter is (IMHO) very badly designed.... I attribute that to the 3" shutter being part of the original design, but I think that the shutter of the 3.5" was a later addition! I have some very old 3.5" diskettes that are branded "Shugart", but I don't know who did the actual manufacturing of the diskettes. They not only don't have a shutter, they obviously weren't designed to have one. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 7 18:51:15 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307184551.02ba0300@pc> At 03:05 PM 3/7/01 -0600, you wrote: >(1) Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a result of the >product's quality. As any corporate droid can tell you, "quality" is satisfaction of user's perceived needs. It's not to be confused with the nerd's idea of technical superiority. >(2) Their products are designed for idiots. Computers are tools for smart >people. Should we let evolution gradually filter out stupid people from the >species, or should we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby >limiting the power of the species as a whole? You don't get out much, do you? Have you ever met someone who doesn't use a computer daily, or who only uses one begrudgingly at work? Most Microsoft products have too many features, which isn't what I'd call "idiot" software. "Idiot" software is something like Adobe PhotoDeluxe, where you can't do a thing without a wizard. >(3) Their software engineers have given far too much design control to their >marketing droids. A marketroid is incapable of specifying the blatant security holes they've added to their products. It's the job of the programmer to do it right. >(4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. Oops, they did it again? - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 7 19:01:01 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <1137.466T650T11984231optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307184212.02b6e490@pc> At 07:58 PM 3/7/01 +0100, you wrote: >It's rather like blaming Ford for equipping their cars qith worthless tyres >which explode when stressed. To me the real problem is how long it will take to either educate users into never running attachments, or convincing the dominant mail program maker that allowing mail users to run attachments is a bad idea. I've been surprised that viruses with Back Orifice -style payloads haven't been more popular. I'd find it far more interesting to see the contents of thousands of hard drives, than to just erase a few files, rearrange file associations, or do the obvious like sending out dozens of e-mails quickly. - John From azog at azog.org Wed Mar 7 19:07:49 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Microsoft bashing References: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> <004d01c0a756$d4a0ade0$0a00a8c0@azog> <984010584.3aa6cf588305d@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <004101c0a76c$356e46e0$0a00a8c0@azog> At this point, I respectfully request your defination of "stupid" and "smart". Bill Gates isn't stupid. If he is, he's riding the stupid train straight to the bank - the head of one of the top technologies companies in the world, let alone being one of the richest men in the world. I don't think stupidity got him there, even if he isn't 37337. Were the people who wrote smtp stupid, or delivering stupidity to the masses? All I need to mention is Robert Morris here. And there are tons of other holes in all other computer systems, some more blatent than others. Just FYI, my rent and food is paid by supporting technology. Be that Microsoft products (which I do support), or others like Linux and FreeBSD (which I also do support). Just as an example of how indifferent I am to the whole MS vs. the world thing, if you to know my opinion what a perfect world would be, it would be one dominated by VMS. And I am serious. (the VMS of the DEC era before Compaq "aquired" them). If it wasn't Microsoft, it would be someone else, and we'd be bashing on them right now. > > Just because you're not at university does not mean that you are stupid. > > > Under this argument, we should also blame the likes of IBM, or > > Commodore, Apple and Atari for bringing computing to the masses? > > No, because the masses aren't necessarily stupid. I would argue that those > machines were more about bringing the masses cheaper machines, so that more > smart people would be able to learn about computing. And how does one get "smart", unless one has readily available technology? Remember, those people you call "smart" were once those same people you callously label "stupid", but they had to start somewhere. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 7 19:10:29 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Slightly different topic : Commands that don't do what a reasonable user > would expect. > Didn't some versions of MS-DOS or PC-DOS (maybe both) have a command > called 'RECOVER' that far from being something that would recover a > damaged disk or a deleted file, actually totally trashed the directory > structure of the disk? The rationale behind "RECOVER" was that it would erase a grossly corrupted directory to make it easier to manually recreate the directory. 'course most users, based on the name of the command, would use it on minor problems and wipe things out. There may be differences of opinion about whether RECOVER would help or hurt a WIN95 drive. The biggest problem with MICROS~1 software might not be quality so much as differences in priorities. Those of us who see e-mail as a way to send text messages can't understand the priorites that would call for optimizing for dancing kangaroos and virus transfer protocol. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 7 19:17:55 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Microsoft (Was: Virus Alert !!!) Message-ID: <00aa01c0a76d$e4cf5240$db769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeffrey S. Sharp > > > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and > > > common? > > >(0) They are too big. Common fault of many PC based programs these days. >(1) They are too slow. See (0). Add that their complexity has made them larger and therefor harder to optimize (should they even bother). >(2) They are too buggy. I find that they are often less buggy than their competitors running on the same platform. >(3) They are too ustable. See (2), add complexity complicates testing for all possible cases. There is always a pathological case that was untested. >(4) They don't use open standards. Agreed, they are to busy trying to make their's unique. >(5) They claim to use open standards, but instead use 'embraced and extended' (read: raped) ones that are 'strategically documented'. Redundant, see (4). >(7) They assume you are an idiot. It industry wide now, I'm not certain it started with them. >(8) They have inadequate documentation. See (7). >(9) WTF is up with their versioning? JEEZ! Common problem. I suspect they have competing factions, winner gets all. > > (2) Their products are designed for idiots. > My $0.02... They {Apple and others included} made computers easier to use without the need for a CS degree. Yes, that means some or even many things are dumb to the point of sillyness remember the initial goal. > So... I'm an idiot because I use MS products? No. It's a commodoity product that has advantages, limiations and flaws use it with understanding and care. > > Computers are tools for smart people. Should we let evolution > > gradually filter out stupid people from the species, or should > > we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby > > limiting the power of the species as a whole? They can be. They are also appliances, in many ways no different from the Microwave or car. > Let's see... Like the rest of us, you probably watch TV on > occassion. Is there anyone on this list (Tony excluded) that could > build one from scratch? Yes, and specious too. Once upon a time (about 50 years ago) you could spend a lot of money (months pay) and buy a TV or you could buy it as a kit (pre heithkit!). In a time log ago I built the Altair because buying a commercial product was manytimes more costly. I did that because I could and had a desire. Not everyone could, though they wanted and needed to tool I built, hence Apple and TRS80. Same story for the early drivers, pilots and other on the leading edge or a useful technology. >presence of marketroids -- They exist get used to it. Sometimes... they may present a problem that an engineer can really feel challenged to meet. Other times they try to satisfy a preceived need. Marketing without direction is no different than engineering without direction in that both cases expend resources to no significant gain. In the end they are or should be part of a team. I have no love for Micros~1. However I do use their product and within it's (DOS, W3.1, W9x, WinNT, W2k) limits it works ok for business. It's adaquate. Intelligently applied it does do real work with acceptable relibility with users that do not care how or why it works when their job is accounting, selling or managing stock. To many computers are just another tool. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 7 19:26:57 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: and someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <00c801c0a770$686921b0$db769a8d@ajp166> From: Peter Joules >These mail viruses are one good reason for reading mail using pine on my >Linux box, by telnet from the Windoze machine ;-) That works but it's still PC. Run Vaxmail on a 3100 or maybe a solid 730 then you can even disect the virus as it cant even run there... ;) Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 7 19:26:38 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <00c701c0a770$67aeab50$db769a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > >> Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? >> You might as well blame Ford for drunk drivers. I agree that Outlook > >If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Dont need no speghetti code to fix it. Just remove the dumb user. Seriously, there are a bunch of things that users should to to elimintate most of the insanity. -Disable VBS scripting, that stops a raft of buggies right there. - disable open after preview for 5sec . - disable auto display of pictures - enable empty deleted folder on close (delete really does then). Thats just a few of the simpler things that really do help. Another is dont run MacAfee antiVirus as it has failed on test systems where Norton or Fsecure did catch it. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 7 19:36:47 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: <00e801c0a6dc$49bb4700$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Mar 07, 2001 06:27:41 PM Message-ID: <200103080136.RAA28090@shell1.aracnet.com> Geoff Roberts wrote: > think I will have to start a > 6000/7000 site, as it seems these are appearing as surplus quite a bit > more now and I seem to be > the only one playing with them (yet) much outside of commercial useage. I've got a friend that was actually trying to get a stripped 6000 working in his apartment, and by stripped I basically mean the cardcage and PS! He works crazy hours so I've not talked to him in the last few weeks, so am not sure how that project is going. Zane From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Mar 7 19:46:06 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: >This is like buying a fridge, taking it home, and having the light globe >continually blow, calling the manufacturer, and being told that "This is a >common problem, we charge $25 for solutions, can I have your credit card >number please?" OK.. While the frige model is simplistic we can still draw some meaningful analogies. First let's look at the reasons that you might buy a particular model of refrigerator. You probably bought it based on feature set, maintainability, usability, performance, product familiarity, name brand recognition, because it's company policy, just to name a few... There's certainly other reasons but, you get the idea. So dazzled by all the hype, you buy the WIN model and haul that sucker home. Now this particular fridge is real popular with vendors and they bombard you with all kinda things that you can add to make it bigger, better, faster, larger capacity, more ice, and so on. As a matter of fact, there are thousands of vendors and hundreds of thousands of different components for your fridge and you can install them yourself in billions of different combinations. There are very few restrictions to what you can install. You don't need any special training, no certification, no tools, in most cases you don't even need experience. Hey... You can install 4 different ice makers from 4 different competitors and have them all work at the same time. In fact there are 1700 different light bulbs that you can get for this model. So one day you go to the fridge to get a cold beer and notice the bulb is not working... Damn defective refrigerator! Who you gonna call? What resonse would you expect under those conditions? If I made the refrigerator, I'd tell you to put it back the way it was when you got it and see if that fixes the problem. Which is exactly what most PC manufactures do. You want me to troubleshoot your fridge under these circumstances... Credit card please :-) Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 7 19:59:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <00c701c0a770$67aeab50$db769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > Dont need no speghetti code to fix it. Just remove the dumb user. > Seriously, there are a bunch of things that users should to to elimintate > most > of the insanity. > -Disable VBS scripting, that stops a raft of buggies right there. > - disable open after preview for 5sec . > - disable auto display of pictures > - enable empty deleted folder on close (delete really does then). > Thats just a few of the simpler things that really do help. - and default to TEXT for e-mail If those were the DEFAULTS, what percentage of the problems would be solved, and how much of the anti-MICROS~1 hostility would be eliminated? From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 7 20:14:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Microsoft (Was: Virus Alert !!!) References: <984009944.3aa6ccd8b5bda@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <001901c0a775$91c08760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> please see my remarks embedded in the previous post, quoted below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:05 PM Subject: Microsoft (Was: Virus Alert !!!) > > > > Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and > > > > common? > > > > > > Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a > > > result of the product's quality. > > > > Well... I happen to be a quality engineer and I strongly disagree > > with your assertion that MS does not produce quality software. So > > in order to get this discussion on an intellectual tract, I'd be > > curious as to your definition of software quality, and the specific > > attributes that define it? > > Right. When we ask "what is quality?" we run inevitably into a unsolvable > semantic debate. My personal definition of 'quality' is kind of fuzzy; I > believe Microsoft's products lack it for many reasons, including the following: > > (0) They are too big. > (1) They are too slow. > (2) They are too buggy. > (3) They are too ustable. > (4) They don't use open standards. > (5) They claim to use open standards, but instead use 'embraced and extended' > (read: raped) ones that are 'strategically documented'. > (7) They assume you are an idiot. > (8) They have inadequate documentation. > (9) WTF is up with their versioning? JEEZ! > regarding items 0..2, how large, slow (define slow), and buggy would be tolerable? I can't address item (3) since I don't know what's meant by "ustable," but, in the event that it's a spelling error for unstabile, I'd ask how untabile it should be in order to be tolerable. What's an open standard and who strictly follows it and with what product? ("Strictly follows" means exactly, to the letter, etc.) Where's (6)? re: (7) ... that's the only safe assumption. so ... Who's got adequate documentation? Who cares what their revisioning scheme is, and why? > > > > (2) Their products are designed for idiots. > > > > So... I'm an idiot because I use MS products? > > No. A man can wear diapers, but that does not make him a baby. > > > > Computers are tools for smart people. Should we let evolution > > > gradually filter out stupid people from the species, or should > > > we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby > > > limiting the power of the species as a whole? > While it's true that computers are tools (not toys), so many people wish to make them into toys, that treating them as tools is senseless. > > > I also take exception to your assertion that computers are for "smart" > > people. Let's see... Not so many years ago, the consensus was that > > freedom was only for white people, that voting was only for men, and > > [fill in the blank with your favorite excluded activity / group]. > > True, until the oppressors learned that there was nothing that made the > oppressed any less fit for survival. An non-white person can do anything a > white person can do, and a woman can do anything that a man can do. Stupid > people, on the other hand, *cannot* do everything that a smart person can do. > Certainly, there should not be laws to explicitly limit the rights of stupid > people, but there most definitely should be a limit on what is done to make > their life easier. > Why should what anyone is permitted to do, for any legal reason, be limited? > > > There was also a time where you had to be a mechanic in order to > > drive because the cars were unrelyable and difficult to maintain. > > Should we exclude every one from driving that can't rebuild an > > engine or tear down a transmission. > > No, but they *are* effectively excluded from rebuilding their engine or tearing > down their transmission. > ... and that's as it should be. > > > Let's see... Like the rest of us, you probably watch TV on > > occassion. Is there anyone on this list (Tony excluded) that could > > build one from scratch? Does that mean no-one else should be allowed > > to watch TV? Let's see... If you can't cook, you shouldn't be > > allowed to eat... If you can't sew, you shouldn't be allowed to wear > > clothes... If you can't swim, you shuldn't be allowed to bathe... > > It's not really about what should be _allowed_, but about what can be _done_. > If you can't build a TV from scratch, then you probably can't, well, build a TV > from scratch. If you can't cook, you probably can't cook. If you can't swim, > you probably can't swim. If any of these seriously interfered with your > fitness to survive (as intelligence does), then you would be on the losing end > of the evolutionary spectrum. > likewise, if you can't make the software work the way you want, then you shouln't waste your time trying. It is your time, however, and nobody pretends to try to control what you do with it. > > > > (3) Their software engineers have given far too much design > > > control to their marketing droids. > Why would anyone believe that programmers (it's difficult to justify using the words software and engineer in the same paragraph) ever had any control to give away. Marketing is what determines what direction a company's product line will take. Well-designed products don't necessarily sell, while well-marketed ones always do. > > > Bull Shit... Without marketing, WINDOWS would have a f***ing command > > line interface and only the eliteist "smart" people (like yourself) > > would be entitled to use it. > Just exactly what would one do with a command line interface that one can't do from a DOS window? > > Microsoft would have then striven to make more *powerful* products instead of > things like Bob or MSN, and we would be doing much more with computers than we > are now. > Power isn't the issue. People are, for the most part, too lazy even to think, so MS has attempted to save them the trouble. > > > Marketing is just as important to software engineering as developers > > are. > > No they aren't. I can 'engineer' equally good programs with or without the > presence of marketroids -- if they stay out of my way. If they try to > interfere, inevitably the quality of the result is decreased. > The only problem is that you can't sell the product without the pre-design effort of the "marketroids." > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement > "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 7 20:19:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: Message-ID: <002f01c0a776$31e75e80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's not Microsoft ... nor is it any other software house ... it's the dummies who prefer the glitz and glamour, taking appearance over substance every time. If it weren't for them, Detroit would have been a wasteland decades ago. They're what the US economy survives on. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:59 PM Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > Dont need no speghetti code to fix it. Just remove the dumb user. > > Seriously, there are a bunch of things that users should to to elimintate > > most > > of the insanity. > > -Disable VBS scripting, that stops a raft of buggies right there. > > - disable open after preview for 5sec . > > - disable auto display of pictures > > - enable empty deleted folder on close (delete really does then). > > Thats just a few of the simpler things that really do help. > - and default to TEXT for e-mail > > If those were the DEFAULTS, what percentage of the problems would be > solved, and how much of the anti-MICROS~1 hostility would be eliminated? > > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Mar 7 20:35:11 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! References: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AA6EFDF.158D122D@internet1.net> Yeah, but Britney Spears is beautiful :-) (Even if I am too old for her) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > (4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 7 19:38:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <200103072238.OAA09626@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > (4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. > > Britney Spears does have a nice software package, yes. Wait, am I allowed to > say that with the microphone on? I like her recent upgrade :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 7 20:52:30 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: <005101c0a759$0a620da0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Mar 08, 2001 09:20:42 AM Message-ID: <200103080252.SAA29517@shell1.aracnet.com> > Someone earlier in this thread said that they were often given away > these days. I think that was me. They've basically got no commercial value (outside of any rare cards they might contain). If you can find out about a company wanting to get rid of one you might have a good shot if you simply offer to deinstall it and haul it away for free! > (At least in the US) so a word on the list might be worthwhile. > They are probably the only really large vaxen that it is practical to > run in > a home environment for any length of time. The 400's and above are > quite fast > compared to the Microvaxen that are about, and they do SMP. Also much > easier > to add/subtract adapters from without fiddling with grant cards as in > Q-Bus boxes. Unless someone is wanting a system because of the hardware I'd have to recommend getting either a VAXstation/MicroVAX 3100 series, or a VAXstation 4000 series system if they want a VAX. If they're in it for OpenVMS I'd really recommend going for a good Alpha. I'm taking several things into consideration with this comment. 1. Power to run the system 2. The amount of physical space it will occupy 3. Obtaining reliable Hard Drives 4. Being able to connect a CD-ROM drive Both #3 and #4 take having a SCSI Bus into account. If you're on the West Coast of the US then #1 is likely to be a concern right now. As for #2, what hobbyist has enough room :^) If I was to go for a big VAXen, I'd probably look for either a 4000 or 7000 series that would fit in a standard 19" Rack, and talk to SCSI Disks. I've been wanting something like that, but with the cost of electricity going up I don't think I want to do that any time soon! Besides in all honesty I prefer a nice DEC PWS with 24bit colour graphics, 100Mb Ethernet and nice fast SCSI disks for running OpenVMS. Now if only said system had a good 24bit graphics card instead of the piece of garbage it currently uses! I don't recommend Elsa Gloria cards for a VMS box! Zane From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 7 19:43:42 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: What used these? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010307170456.008ee720@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I picked these up a number of years ago and in sorting through > some of my stuff, I rediscovered them. They seem to be an early > version of a 3.5" floppy disk system, before what we know today > as a 3.5" floppy became standard. > <...> > > Note, one of the disks is labeled 3 1/4". > > The fact that Dysan made a disk for this thing leads me to > believe that someone must have used it. They are 3.25" drives. Dysan was trying to compete with the Sony 3.5". Guess who won? Fred will be able to expand upon this. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 7 22:03:15 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: HP-HIL keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010307230315.3bdfeaba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Arnie, I don't thing there is such a thing as a PS-2 to HP-HIL adapter. But I'll send you a keyboard and mouse for the cost of postage. Joe At 08:47 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >I just inherited a new toy. An HP 735 192MB ram (2) 1GB drives and 20 in >monitor. I was all ready to play, but an important component is missing. >Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard for this beast without giving up >my first born. I really like him. Or a cheap PS/2 to HP-HIL adapter would >be even better. > >Arnie > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 7 22:10:22 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307134121.00ac9220@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010307231022.26479f16@mailhost.intellistar.net> Gene, I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one and/or see what the docs say. Joe At 01:51 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >I received my AC Adaptor for my L40SX and the screen does not come on. > >Can anybody tell me what the lights and switches mean on the console. > >I have some symbols showing in some of the little windows. >With power on from left to right they show: > >dark >dark >right arrow >underlined % sign >vertical bar >up arrow >up arrow >box which could be a screen symbol >dark > >With power off the right arrow shows a battery and all of the others are dark > >On the right of the screen there are two slide bars one labeled with a >shining sun the other like a half moon. >Neither seems to do anything > >Any help would be appreciated. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 7 22:12:48 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010307231248.354f3b46@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:47 AM 3/7/01 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > >> Why fault Microsoft for making products that are popular and common? >> You might as well blame Ford for drunk drivers. I agree that Outlook >> shouldn't expose its address book, and there's slim reason to >> encourage the naive, easily-fooled hordes to click on executable >> attachments, but it's far easier to lob criticism than it is to design >> full-featured mail programs and operating systems that are >> virus-proof. > >If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them. Don't you mean that you could fix them? Joe From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 7 21:05:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <010801c0a77d$cd2812c0$db769a8d@ajp166> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >> -Disable VBS scripting, that stops a raft of buggies right there. >> - disable open after preview for 5sec . >> - disable auto display of pictures >> - enable empty deleted folder on close (delete really does then). >> Thats just a few of the simpler things that really do help. > - and default to TEXT for e-mail > >If those were the DEFAULTS, what percentage of the problems would be >solved, and how much of the anti-MICROS~1 hostility would be eliminated? Some. Then again the real garbage like AOL and all those really inane web pages that usse activeX and comX controls. Allison From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 7 20:02:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > In fact there are 1700 different light bulbs that you can get for this > model. > > So one day you go to the fridge to get a cold beer and notice the bulb is > not working... Damn defective refrigerator! > > Who you gonna call? > What resonse would you expect under those conditions? Actually, Microsoft provides you with their own lightbulbs now, ever since they partnered with that one lightbulb company, reversed engineered their design, came up with their own LightBulb 1.0 (that was buggy as hell and less bright, but their marketing took care of those issues) and then drove the small lightbulb company out of business. Anyway, this argument might have had merit if it weren't for the *fact* that MS strategically introduces bugs into their "OS" so that a competitor's product will fail. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 7 21:26:13 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: L40SX questions Message-ID: <8b.358fe62.27d855d5@aol.com> In a message dated 3/7/01 9:16:44 PM Central Standard Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: << Gene, I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one and/or see what the docs say. >> it's basically a pre-thinkpad thinkpad. It's tan with a monochrome display and floppy drive on the right side. model type 8543 i think. DB Young Team OS/2 antique computer collection, hot rod pinto, and more at: http://www.nothingtodo.org From wschne at west.net Wed Mar 7 21:47:10 2001 From: wschne at west.net (William G. Schneberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 References: <3.0.1.16.20010307230315.3bdfeaba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000701c0a782$747cd8e0$0401a8c0@bill> I am new to your group. I have a Victor 9000 (I believe it was called a Sirus 9000 in Europe) that has a problem on the motherboard. Does anyone have a schematic, or technical data for this machine. I was a 286, but everything is very non-standard. Bill Schneberg Oxnard, CA From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Mar 7 22:22:57 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You forgot other attributes of this fridge: The manufacturer has created a machine: 1) Due to poor product planning your fridge doesn't protect its mechanical components from unauthorized modification or force your aftermarket parts to install to physically separate places, so when you try out those different icemakers, the ones you don't like and remove leave half a dozen hoses leading into the back of the machine and odd modifications to the compressor with no indication which ones are needed. Looking in the back, you see all the wires are the same color but with tiny barcodes to identify what they do. You have to buy the Wire Registry manual to identify what the barcodes mean but many codes are missing from the book. The compressor stops frequently, spoiling your food. 2) Through poor product planning, allows people outside your family to readily inspect or tamper with your food, or sneak their food onto your shelves. Consumer convenience justifies this, you are told. 3) Forces you to upgrade from 115V to 220V to 460V power feeds every few years to provide sufficient power to activate the innovative new features such as the talking snowflake which recommends where to place your pizza in the freezer. Meanwhile, the fundamental mechanical flaws are left essentially unchanged or are fixed in an even more expensive model. You can disable the snowflake from talking, but you can't remove it to free up space or your freezer won't freeze. On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > In fact there are 1700 different light bulbs that you can get for this > model. > > So one day you go to the fridge to get a cold beer and notice the bulb is > not working... Damn defective refrigerator! > > Who you gonna call? > What resonse would you expect under those conditions? > > If I made the refrigerator, I'd tell you to put it back the way it was when > you got it and see if that fixes the problem. Which is exactly what most PC > manufactures do. > > You want me to troubleshoot your fridge under these circumstances... Credit > card please :-) From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Mar 7 22:42:22 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010307231022.26479f16@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307134121.00ac9220@popmail.voicenet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307234105.00adbc40@popmail.voicenet.com> At 11:10 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM >used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs >with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one >and/or see what the docs say. Joe, it's a PS/2 made in 1991 and was the first real laptop made by IBM I believe after the Convertible. Gene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From at258 at osfn.org Wed Mar 7 22:50:21 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <002f01c0a776$31e75e80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I'm afraid you're right about that. What bothers me about Microslop is that it interferes rather than assists me in what I want to do. I spend nearly as much time playing with windows as I do accomplishing real work. I figure productivity takes a 30-35% shot. Can you imagine what that could mean in terms of office productivity. I've used a number of really good applications, - all word processors that facilitated my writing. TimeWorks' WordWriter 128 comes to mind as an excellent tool. Excellence! for the Amiga is another good programme, although I wish it had WordStar's Ctl-B reformatting command. WordStar, another great tool. Programmes that I hated: Perfect Writer, perfectly horrid; Word - lack the words to adequately express my contempt. WordPerfect - adeqaute, but no prize, Works - it does, but it has a great number of annoying defaults. Why can't I set the file types it displays, and why can't it remember the directory I'm working in? I definitely have to look into Linux. On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not Microsoft ... nor is it any other software house ... it's the dummies > who prefer the glitz and glamour, taking appearance over substance every time. > If it weren't for them, Detroit would have been a wasteland decades ago. > They're what the US economy survives on. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: "Classic Computers" > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > > > > On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > > Dont need no speghetti code to fix it. Just remove the dumb user. > > > Seriously, there are a bunch of things that users should to to elimintate > > > most > > > of the insanity. > > > -Disable VBS scripting, that stops a raft of buggies right there. > > > - disable open after preview for 5sec . > > > - disable auto display of pictures > > > - enable empty deleted folder on close (delete really does then). > > > Thats just a few of the simpler things that really do help. > > - and default to TEXT for e-mail > > > > If those were the DEFAULTS, what percentage of the problems would be > > solved, and how much of the anti-MICROS~1 hostility would be eliminated? > > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 7 22:51:08 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The MICROS~1 Outlook automobile, instead of having a speedometer, fuel guage, oil pressure guage, etc., has a TV set and video games in the middle of the dash. It makes it harder to use/drive normally, and is a problem for not only the owner, but everyone in the vicinity. But Yes, it IS what the public wants. As has been pointed out, Microsoft is not alone in what they do. There appears to be NO WAY to do plain text e-mail in AOL 6.0! If you want text, rather than dancing kangaroos, you are SOL From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 7 22:54:10 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984027250.3aa71072c2888@email.ou.edu> > Slightly different topic : Commands that don't do what a reasonable > user TRON and TROFF in GWBASIC. :-) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 7 23:00:58 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010307184551.02ba0300@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > At 03:05 PM 3/7/01 -0600, you wrote: > >(1) Their products' popularity and commonness is largely *not* a result of the > >product's quality. > > As any corporate droid can tell you, "quality" is > satisfaction of user's perceived needs. It's not to be > confused with the nerd's idea of technical superiority. No, "quality" is doing WELL what the package purports that it can do! - don > >(2) Their products are designed for idiots. Computers are tools for smart > >people. Should we let evolution gradually filter out stupid people from the > >species, or should we allow them to be our least common denominator, thereby > >limiting the power of the species as a whole? > > You don't get out much, do you? Have you ever met someone > who doesn't use a computer daily, or who only uses one > begrudgingly at work? Most Microsoft products have too > many features, which isn't what I'd call "idiot" software. > "Idiot" software is something like Adobe PhotoDeluxe, > where you can't do a thing without a wizard. > > >(3) Their software engineers have given far too much design control to their > >marketing droids. > > A marketroid is incapable of specifying the blatant > security holes they've added to their products. It's the > job of the programmer to do it right. > > >(4) Think Britney Spears, but only in software. > > Oops, they did it again? > > - John > > From rdd at smart.net Wed Mar 7 23:27:03 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:03 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <002f01c0a776$31e75e80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's not Microsoft ... nor is it any other software house ... it's > the dummies who prefer the glitz and glamour, taking appearance over As someone else here stated, perhaps people who lack the intellect to be able use some random flavor of UNIX, VMS, etc. shouldn't be using computers. That said, I believe that most computers users are not incapable of using *NIX, etc.; they're not lacking intellegence, they're just naieve when it comes to computers, and they would probably like *NIX, etc. once they began using it. > substance every time. If it weren't for them, Detroit would have > been a wasteland decades ago. They're what the US economy survives > on. Well designed cars, now turned "classic," are, like classic computers, vanishing. Regarding Detroit: After renting a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis for nearly two months, I will say that it's not as nice a car as my 1972 Mercury Montego MX Broughm - despite many nice modern features like dome lights that dim as they go out, however, it's still a much nicer car than any of the little Japanese cars and most other imports that I've seen. It's not only Detroit that's deteriorated. Look at Volkswagens for example; the old VW Beetles were well-engineered, fun to drive and easy to repair---very nice cars, even if they did crumple up like tin cans; the new Beetles are, well, annoying. At least Detroit still makes reasonably nice pick-up trucks like the Dodge Ram 3500 and Ford F550s, even if they can't build useful station wagons anymore. New cars are even a pain to drive with one hand on the steering wheel, and resting one's arm on the window-sill/ledge (or whatever it's called) when the window is down is not comfortable; strange design. Blame the U.S. government for fuel economy regulations that killed off nice cars, not the U.S. auto manufacturers. It's unfortunate that the metal has been shaved down to being nearly paper-thin in various places to make the cars lighter, and that plastic is used where metal should be used, etc. - these new cars probably won't even last 30 years or more. Alas, safe, solid, comfortable, nearly a ton and much heavier, 300 to 400-plus horsepower---with relatively simple V8 engine designs, rear-wheel drive cars seem to be a thing of the past, but it's not Detroit's fault entirely. Just like the substantial well-designed, easily repairable, computers, like our beloved PDP-11s, etc. have gone out of manufacture, so have well-designed, easily-repairable, cars. ...of course, marketing droids, no doubt, play a major role in the deterioration of both nice cars and computers. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 8 00:08:11 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <200103080136.RAA28090@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <011b01c0a796$280abfe0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Value of a small VAX farm > I've got a friend that was actually trying to get a stripped 6000 working > in his apartment, and by stripped I basically mean the cardcage and PS! He > works crazy hours so I've not talked to him in the last few weeks, so am not > sure how that project is going. Interesting approach. Probably possible. The cabinet is about 50% cooling fans with the main Low voltage DC switchmode PSU's at the top, and the 300vdc supply and the AC switchbox at the left rear. It may or may not contain a battery backup unit (UPS type thing that 'freezes' everything in memory and stops the cpu on failure, with a 'resume' on supply restoration. Tin box with SLAC batteries in it. It would probably be fairly easy to distribute a stripped 6K into some other mounting, and lose the big, heavy cabinet. Biggest headaches would likely be 1) Cooling It doesn't produce that much heat compared to some of the older Vaxen. (Around 600w is typical) So I would think some careful planning anda couple of strategically placed smaller fans would be adequate. Dust ingress into the backplane could be an issue in the longer term, so some filtering would advisable, as done by the main cabinet design. 2) Interlocks This might take some time to sort, as the PSU's are interlocked to the card cage and various other spots, which stop it powering up if they have the front glass panels open, and /or the air stops etc. I have a 6000-210 dismembered, with all it's bits and pieces. It got dropped from a forklift, still worked, even though interestingly bent and twisted and minus doors and thing. Might have a look and see how hard it would be. Drives could also get interesting, though you could net boot it I guess. Theres enough room in a 6k cab to fit a couple of RA9x's easily, and other stuff with a bit of thought, so the guts of the machine itself are not *that* large. Build it in and make a working Vax feature wall? Now that's an interesting concept. Hmmm. ;^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 8 00:24:59 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! References: Message-ID: <012301c0a798$80a776a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Robertson" To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Virus Alert !!! > OK.. While the frige model is simplistic we can still draw some meaningful > analogies. Very simplistic, granted. > First let's look at the reasons that you might buy a particular model of > refrigerator. You probably bought it based on feature set, maintainability, > usability, performance, product familiarity, name brand recognition, because > it's company policy, just to name a few... There's certainly other reasons > but, you get the idea. > > So dazzled by all the hype, you buy the WIN model and haul that sucker home. > > Now this particular fridge is real popular with vendors and they bombard you > with all kinda things that you can add to make it bigger, better, faster, > larger capacity, more ice, and so on. As a matter of fact, there are > thousands of vendors and hundreds of thousands of different components for > your fridge and you can install them yourself in billions of different > combinations. There are very few restrictions to what you can install. You > don't need any special training, no certification, no tools, in most cases > you don't even need experience. Hey... You can install 4 different ice > makers from 4 different competitors and have them all work at the same time. > > In fact there are 1700 different light bulbs that you can get for this > model. > > So one day you go to the fridge to get a cold beer and notice the bulb is > not working... Damn defective refrigerator! > > Who you gonna call? > What resonse would you expect under those conditions? . I agree that there are 3rd party apps that may create issues, but if you were to look at (say) a VMS box, there is very little beyond a crook device or device driver that will bring the O/S down. With Windows this is a daily occurence at times, sometimes several times daily. It would depend on what uh, extra features I have installed, and who made them, and whether they were installed according to instructions, and incorporate the latest uh, engineering change orders Assume that the answers to these questions are Office 97Pro, Microsoft, Yes and Yes (in that order). > If I made the refrigerator, I'd tell you to put it back the way it was when > you got it and see if that fixes the problem. Which is exactly what most PC > manufactures do. The point you seem to have overlooked is that even the basic, as delivered, fridge is broken in various places under conditions of normal useage. (ie 'as it was when I got it') Yet they still want my money to fix their broken as designed fridge. Need I mention the various Win98SE shutdown bugs? (to name just one known issue) I'm sure you know of plenty more? > You want me to troubleshoot your fridge under these circumstances... Credit > card please :-) Your reasoning also fails when the extras are provided at extra cost by the fridge manufacturer, are sometimes installed at the factory/retailer (bought a bundled system recently?) and it still falls over. Repeatedly. And then 'certified' (or certifiable in some cases) 'engineers' install it and it still falls over. Repeatedly. It's like buying an ice dispenser from the fridge maker, paying a 'fridgie to install it, and every time you use it, it trips the compressor out. The 'fridgie can't figure it out, the fridge was factory standard and the ice dispenser was installed according to the manufacturers instructions. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From peter at joules.org Thu Mar 8 02:43:48 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: and someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <00c801c0a770$686921b0$db769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Peter Joules > >These mail viruses are one good reason for reading mail using pine on my > >Linux box, by telnet from the Windoze machine ;-) > > > That works but it's still PC. Run Vaxmail on a 3100 or maybe a solid 730 > then you can even disect the virus as it cant even run there... ;) > My 3100 is still in storage, like most of my collection, after moving house and job last summer. I must make time to get the network set up properly one of these days. -- Regards Pete From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Mar 8 04:32:17 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17630F@exch002.softwright.co.uk> OK, my 2 cents on this one... > As someone else here stated, perhaps people who lack the intellect to > be able use some random flavor of UNIX, VMS, etc. shouldn't be using > computers. That said, I believe that most computers users are not > incapable of using *NIX, etc.; they're not lacking intellegence, > they're just naieve when it comes to computers, and they would > probably like *NIX, etc. once they began using it. Absolutely. The problem is that today's culture is such that people expect to just dive right in and be able to do something without actually knowing anything about what it is they're doing. You don't get into a car, having never driven in your life before, and head straight out onto the motorway. Same as you wouldn't expect to be able to run a power station without reading a few manuals first! Don't get me wrong, I hate Microsoft as much as anyone else, but fair dues to them for trying to bring computers to the masses. In my opinion they're going about it in totally the wrong way though; don't throw together a lot of buggy, bloated software the looks nice and on the surface is easy to use - instead build a robust, logical product and provide good documentation on how to use it. Expect your users to have to actually *learn* something in order to harness its potential. >> substance every time. If it weren't for them, Detroit would have >> been a wasteland decades ago. They're what the US economy survives >> on. > > Well designed cars, now turned "classic," are, like classic computers, > vanishing. > > Regarding Detroit: After renting a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis for > nearly two months, I will say that it's not as nice a car as my 1972 > Mercury Montego MX Broughm - despite many nice modern features like > dome lights that dim as they go out, however, it's still a much nicer > car than any of the little Japanese cars and most other imports that > I've seen. Yep. My Triumph turns 30 next year, and it's so much nicer than any modern car. A car is there to get you from A to B in a reasonable amount of time and comfort - and I'll add that it should look nice, but it would still do its job even if it didn't. You don't need lights that fade rather than just go out, electrically adjustable mirrors, heated windscreen washer jets and all the other garbage that people pile into new vehicles these days. I'd also argue that you don't need airbags and side impact bars and all the rest of it - I mean, human beings are not immortal (and never will be) and if they're going to chuck themselves around the country at high speed then what do they expect!? It's the same with the fridge example that someone else came up with. A fridge is there to keep cool food; that's its job and it doesn't need to do anything else. I suppose given peoples' desire for the latest-and-greatest thing which is more feature-packed than ever before - and better than what their next door neighbour has - one of two things will happen: a) people will gradually see sense and start to buy products according to how functional they are.* b) people will continue to buy according to unnecessary features and marketing hype. I don't think case a) is too likely, at least not for many years - but maybe as far as the computer inductry is concerned we're seeing the start of that with the recent downturn in .com investment? And if case b) holds out then there's nothing we can do to change things anyway - just let it take its course and stop worrying about it! :-) * I'm not saying we should all buy things which look like big, dull, grey boxes :) But a product can be functional as well as reliable, cost-effective, pleasing on the eye etc. - current trend seems to be to ignore function over all the other things. I believe that's only a recent thing (last hundred years or so) that's come about with increase in global communication and wider markets - presumably because if company X can make a product that looks nicer than company Y's offering - regardless of how well it performs - they will typically make more money and therefore survive. Hopefully it'll come round full circle eventually and people will start taking some pride in the things that they produce again. Anyway, enough off-topicness for one day... and it was probably way more than a 2 cents opinion. And I probably made no sense either. :-) cheers Jules From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Mar 8 05:15:49 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Microsoft bashing In-Reply-To: Re: Microsoft bashing (Billy D'Augustine) References: <983999114.3aa6a28aeef85@email.ou.edu> <004d01c0a756$d4a0ade0$0a00a8c0@azog> <984010584.3aa6cf588305d@email.ou.edu> <004101c0a76c$356e46e0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <15015.27109.664894.225604@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 7, Billy D'Augustine wrote: > If it wasn't Microsoft, it would be someone else, and we'd be bashing on > them right now. *Some people* would be bashing on them right now. But I think most of us would bash only if the Someone Else in question had the commonly-criticized attributes of microsoft: - truly *bad* (though commonly used) products - wholly, blatantly dishonest marketing - near-criminal business practices -Dave McGuire From Ralph.Sobek at irit.fr Thu Mar 8 06:08:59 2001 From: Ralph.Sobek at irit.fr (Ralph SOBEK) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... Message-ID: <3AA7765B.7D0D7012@irit.fr> Hi all! Just curious, but are are the prices of these Sun NVRAM timer chips these days? I am looking for a replacement for the old SG Thompson M48T02 chip. Here in France they are on the order of $45-50!! What has happened to last year's $20-28 ? Are the Dallas chips identical to the ST ones, as concerns a Sun? --Ralph -- Dr. Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. Ralph.Sobek @ irit.fr sobek @ irit.fr http://beeline.to/genealogy/ Ph:(+33)[0]561556356 FAX:(+33)[0]561556847 http://www.irit.fr/~Ralph.Sobek/ =============================================================================== Estimates are that one-third to two-thirds of animal and plant species will disappear in forseeable future! AWFUL! SPAMMERS Beware: http://www.irit.fr/~Ralph.Sobek/welcome.shtml#Mail-Warning -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/aaff8181/attachment.html From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Mar 8 06:42:11 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 In-Reply-To: <000701c0a782$747cd8e0$0401a8c0@bill> Message-ID: On Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:47:10 -0800 "William G. Schneberg" wrote: > I am new to your group. I have a Victor 9000 (I believe it was called a > Sirus 9000 in Europe) It was called a Sirius I here. I have about four of them. > that has a problem on the motherboard. Does anyone > have a schematic, or technical data for this machine. I may even have a service manual, too. > I was a 286, but everything is very non-standard. It's an 8088 or an 8086, isn't it? Pre-dates the 286 by quite a while. And it pre-dates "standards" like the IBM PC, too! But it does have the highly original variable-speed disk drives. Anyone got the software that plays music on them? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 8 06:51:16 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 Message-ID: I picked up a Mac SE30 that someone was chucking. It has no keyboard or mouse, but powers up and goes into MacOS. I'd like to find a keyboard and mouse for this. Also, when it booted, it seems to have some sort of password protection on it. A small dialogue box came up that said "Please enter password for Macinto". I don't know if the utility was called "Macinto", but it looks like perhaps the title bar wasn't big enough to fully display "Macintosh". At the very least, I'd like to be able to run OpenBSD on it... From james at cs.york.ac.uk Thu Mar 8 07:01:37 2001 From: james at cs.york.ac.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <3AA7765B.7D0D7012@irit.fr> Message-ID: On 8 Mar, Ralph SOBEK wrote: > Hi all! > > Just curious, but are are the prices of these Sun NVRAM timer chips > these days? I am looking for a replacement > for the old SG Thompson M48T02 chip. Here in France they are on the > order of $45-50!! What has happened > to last year's $20-28 ? Are the Dallas chips identical to the ST ones, > as concerns a Sun? i'm not sure about the st one's, but i'm pretty sure that dallas have discontinued the nvram chips as used in 4c class hardware. rather than forking out huge sums, why no just replace the battery? i've done this with some success. you have to bit a bit careful when carving out the old one, but after that, it's a doddle. -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From alinder at ProgressLighting.com Thu Mar 8 07:19:59 2001 From: alinder at ProgressLighting.com (Arnie Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: HP-HIL keyboard Message-ID: Joe, That would be great. Just email me and let me know the details. Arnie arnoldlinder@yahoo.com -----Original Message----- From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:03 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP-HIL keyboard Arnie, I don't thing there is such a thing as a PS-2 to HP-HIL adapter. But I'll send you a keyboard and mouse for the cost of postage. Joe At 08:47 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >I just inherited a new toy. An HP 735 192MB ram (2) 1GB drives and 20 in >monitor. I was all ready to play, but an important component is missing. >Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard for this beast without giving up >my first born. I really like him. Or a cheap PS/2 to HP-HIL adapter would >be even better. > >Arnie > From james at cs.york.ac.uk Thu Mar 8 07:24:07 2001 From: james at cs.york.ac.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 8 Mar, To: i wrote: > why no just replace the battery? i've done this > with some success. you have to bit a bit careful when carving out the > old one, but after that, it's a doddle. > i dug this out of my bookmarks: http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html#attach -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Thu Mar 8 02:50:56 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: off topic: lk401 Message-ID: <20010308140123.EFC9336D7D@pandora.worldonline.nl> Billy, where are you? I have a spare LK401 but live in the Netherlands. Wim ---------- > From: Billy D'Augustine > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: off topic: lk401 > Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:30 PM > > has anyone got a spare lk401? The spacebar on mine is acting up, the return > spring doesn't work properly, and I'll get random spaces in the middle of > typing. Very annoying. > > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 8 07:55:36 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <00c701c0a770$67aeab50$db769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> At 08:26 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >>If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them. I've often thought about what the rag-tag open source community would do if they had the Windows source - the whole kit and caboodle. I'd guess that the entire Microsoft source base (counting apps, developer tools, in-house tools, and all the DDK (device driver) tools, etc.) are close to two orders of magnitude more code and data than the average four-CD Linux distro. Frankly, I don't think they could handle it. Does the open source community have the same number of full-time man-hours available to a new task of this size? What about writers and managers, not just counting programers? - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 09:33:00 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: <8b.358fe62.27d855d5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010308103300.251f5872@mailhost.intellistar.net> That sounds like the one that's down here. I'll pick it up and see what I can find out about it. Joe At 10:26 PM 3/7/01 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 3/7/01 9:16:44 PM Central Standard Time, >rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > ><< Gene, > > I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM > used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs > with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one > and/or see what the docs say. >> > >it's basically a pre-thinkpad thinkpad. It's tan with a monochrome display >and floppy drive on the right side. model type 8543 i think. > >DB Young Team OS/2 > >antique computer collection, hot rod pinto, and more at: >http://www.nothingtodo.org > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 09:43:39 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: References: <20010303005140.LSGT2129.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010308104339.251faea0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:33 PM 3/3/01 +0000, Tony wrote: >THe IBM PC/AT assumes that drive A: is a 5.25" 1.2Mbyte drive after a >CMOS RAM reset. It will boot from either a 360K or 1.2M disk in this >drive. > I tried a 360k boot disk in the XT/286 and it won't boot with the CMOS erased. I think I tried a 1.2Mb boot disk also with the same results. However I did get it booted with the setup disk that Don sent. There was a delay becuase the 1.2Mb drive in my main computer didn't want to make a good disk. I finally pulled one of the 360k drives out of the XT/286 and installed it in my main computer and used it. After that no more problems making disks. After I got the XT/286 CMOS setup I tried to read the hard drive but it turns out that the drive is bad. RATS! I was hoping to find software for the STAG EPROM programmers still on it. That's the only reason that I picked the machine up. Well, I'll save the floppy drives out of it and pitch the rest of it. Thanks for your help everyone. Joe From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Mar 8 08:45:13 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: OT - Ethics in Business References: Message-ID: <3AA79AF9.5C6C3B@idirect.com> >Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > > In fact there are 1700 different light bulbs that you can get for this model. > >So one day you go to the fridge to get a cold beer and notice the bulb is > > not working... Damn defective refrigerator! > > Who you gonna call? > > What resonse would you expect under those conditions? > Actually, Microsoft provides you with their own lightbulbs now, ever since > they partnered with that one lightbulb company, reversed engineered their > design, came up with their own LightBulb 1.0 (that was buggy as hell and > less bright, but their marketing took care of those issues) and then drove > the small lightbulb company out of business. Jerome Fine replies: The problem is with ethics - and likely Microsoft has no more lack of this feature than most other companies. But because they have more clout, it is more apparent. How many examples can you think of for other companies that have either tried or would like to do the same thing. If everyone except Microsoft was ethical and all said that they would stop doing business with or using Microsoft products until Microsoft behaved in an ethical manner, Microsoft would either behave ethically or disappear. When the ethical standard rises outside of Microsoft, it will rise inside Microsoft as well. > Anyway, this argument might have had merit if it weren't for the *fact* > that MS strategically introduces bugs into their "OS" so that a > competitor's product will fail. > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival As you stated in an earlier e-mail today: "If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them." But if Microsoft gave us the source code, we would see just what "bugs" had been introduced for that purpose. Being forced to "license" source code which is guaranteed by law to reproduce the EXE files and all of the other files used to run an application would be the best safeguard against such behaviour. While the comments could be removed, looking at the different code between different versions would show the changes that were made to produce the "bugs". If enough users demanded a minimum standard of ethics, then requiring that source code be made available after a certain number of years have elapsed and a bug is not fixed would also accomplish the same result since seeing what Microsoft had done with previous versions would be an ethical revelation as well. There are probably many solutions to the ethical problem which do not impact (or have a negligible impact) on profits. But how can we expect any help from politicians when their ethics are likely just about the same as the companies they accept campaign contributions from. I don't expect any answer from this reply, but if we are complaining about Microsoft, perhaps we should look at ourselves as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Mar 8 08:48:52 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk Message-ID: In a message dated 3/8/01 8:44:50 AM Central Standard Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: << After I got the XT/286 CMOS setup I tried to read the hard drive but it turns out that the drive is bad. RATS! I was hoping to find software for the STAG EPROM programmers still on it. That's the only reason that I picked the machine up. Well, I'll save the floppy drives out of it and pitch the rest of it. >> are you sure the hard drive is bad? I've a 3270pc that posts a 1701 error but if I let the machine idle for a short time until the hard drive warms up, it then works fine. Or if you have a copy of spinrite, let that run on it. That's saved a drive for me before. Old computers, and strange other sights at: www.nothingtodo.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 8 08:53:32 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: from Billy D'Augustine at "Mar 8, 1 07:51:16 am" Message-ID: <200103081453.GAA08580@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I picked up a Mac SE30 that someone was chucking. It has no keyboard or > mouse, but powers up and goes into MacOS. I'd like to find a keyboard and > mouse for this. > > Also, when it booted, it seems to have some sort of password protection on > it. A small dialogue box came up that said "Please enter password for > Macinto". I don't know if the utility was called "Macinto", but it looks > like perhaps the title bar wasn't big enough to fully display "Macintosh". > At the very least, I'd like to be able to run OpenBSD on it... Weird. Do you have a Disk Tools disk for it? You can boot off a floppy and circumvent that, it sounds like a weird INIT or Extension. What version of MacOS does it look like? SE/30s use regular old ADB mice and keyboards. Every swap meet has nine billion of them, but CompUSA still sells new ADB mice and keyboards if you don't mind the highway robbery. Look for the small circular plug with four pins and one big plastic prong. DON'T BUY THE USB ONES. ;-) I don't know about OpenBSD, but NetBSD is definitely supported on that model. Beware, since the SE/30 has 24-bit "dirty" ROMs. My advice is to land a copy of System 7.1 (or 7.5.3; Apple has that free for download although it will be a slower boot than 7.1 on that system), wipe the machine, install Mode32 if 7.5.3 doesn't include it already, and then install NetBSD. (NetBSD requires MacOS to boot.) The SE/30, second to the Plus, is my favourite Classic Mac because it's speedy, powerful and small. (I just like the Plus because it was the first Mac I ever got to play with. And Sam, it plays ZeroGravity great. Thanks much again. ;-) So you have a good little machine there. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I may be underpaid, but I underwork just to make it even. ------------------ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 8 08:46:31 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307234105.00adbc40@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: IBM still has the hardware maint. manual (HMM) for the portables in volume I of the Mobile Systems HMM available online at http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gene Ehrich Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 10:42 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: L40SX questions At 11:10 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM >used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs >with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one >and/or see what the docs say. Joe, it's a PS/2 made in 1991 and was the first real laptop made by IBM I believe after the Convertible. Gene ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Mar 8 08:54:47 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc>; from jfoust@threedee.com on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 07:55:36AM -0600 References: <00c701c0a770$67aeab50$db769a8d@ajp166> <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> Message-ID: <20010308095447.M32444@alcor.concordia.ca> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 07:55:36AM -0600, John Foust (jfoust@threedee.com) wrote: > At 08:26 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > >>If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them. > > I've often thought about what the rag-tag open source > community would do if they had the Windows source - the > whole kit and caboodle. Well, they've implemented major bits of the API having neither kit nor caboodle -- . > Frankly, I don't think they could handle it. Does the open source > community have the same number of full-time man-hours available to a > new task of this size? TINOSC. HAND! -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 09:54:45 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 In-Reply-To: <000701c0a782$747cd8e0$0401a8c0@bill> References: <3.0.1.16.20010307230315.3bdfeaba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010308105445.39ffbb48@mailhost.intellistar.net> Bill, I used to have manuals for the 9000 but I sold them. You might try contacting the buyer, Grant Zozman , and see if he can help you. Joe At 07:47 PM 3/7/01 -0800, you wrote: >I am new to your group. I have a Victor 9000 (I believe it was called a >Sirus 9000 in Europe) that has a problem on the motherboard. Does anyone >have a schematic, or technical data for this machine. I was a 286, but >everything is very non-standard. > >Bill Schneberg >Oxnard, CA > > >, From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 09:57:02 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307234105.00adbc40@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010307231022.26479f16@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010307134121.00ac9220@popmail.voicenet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010308105702.39ff147c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Gene, I'm pretty sure that's the same machine that's down here. I'll get it and see what I can find out. Joe At 11:42 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:10 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >>I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM >>used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs >>with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one >>and/or see what the docs say. > >Joe, it's a PS/2 made in 1991 and was the first real laptop made by >IBM I believe after the Convertible. > >Gene > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > >gene@ehrich.com >gehrich@tampabay.rr.com >P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 > >http://www.voicenet.com/~generic >Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 09:59:15 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: HP-HIL keyboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010308105915.3a071580@mailhost.intellistar.net> Arnie, Send me your address and I'll start looking for a box. Joe At 08:19 AM 3/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >Joe, >That would be great. Just email me and let me know the details. > >Arnie >arnoldlinder@yahoo.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:03 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: HP-HIL keyboard > > >Arnie, > > I don't thing there is such a thing as a PS-2 to HP-HIL adapter. But >I'll send you a keyboard and mouse for the cost of postage. > > Joe > >At 08:47 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >>I just inherited a new toy. An HP 735 192MB ram (2) 1GB drives and 20 in >>monitor. I was all ready to play, but an important component is missing. >>Does anyone know where I can get a keyboard for this beast without giving >up >>my first born. I really like him. Or a cheap PS/2 to HP-HIL adapter would >>be even better. >> >>Arnie >> > From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Mar 8 09:38:41 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: off topic: lk401 References: <001d01c0a75e$8ccbba20$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <3AA7A781.17432347@arrl.net> Billy D'Augustine wrote: > > has anyone got a spare lk401? The spacebar on mine is acting up, the return > spring doesn't work properly, and I'll get random spaces in the middle of > typing. Very annoying. I've got some spares if you're willing to pay the postage. Probably about 5 bucks, assuming you are in the US. Thought i was buying one, but received a carton with 10 of 'em ..... nick oliviero From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 10:04:45 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm Message-ID: Ewww, SCSI drives on a BI machine? Only stuff I use SCSI in is MicroVAXen and lil bitty Alpha's... DSSI or SI is all I'd want for a BI machine... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 8 11:01:26 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: DEC KS-10 Emulator Now Available Message-ID: I figured this would be of interest to people here, especially with a good rundown of where to go and what to get. Timothy Stark has released his TS10 Emulator which emulates a DEC KS-10 and will at least run TOPS-10 V7.03. Emulator (in CVS): http://sourceforge.net/projects/ts10/ Software: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ Here is some info from Timothy Stark on the tapes: > Well, you need a listing of packages to install TOPS-10 v7.03 system on > my TS10 emulator. > BB-X138B-BB KS Bootable TOPS-10 v7.03 tape > BB-X140B-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 Monitor sources > BB-X128B-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 w/sources #1 > BB-FP63A-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 w/sources #2 > BB-FP64A-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 Tools w/sources > BB-X130B-SB CUSP w/sources > They are in .TAP files that you can get them from Tim's archive. I thank > to Tim Shoppa for makeing .tap files on your archives. > To boot TOPS-10 operating system. You need KS10 Bootable tape first > (BB-X138B-BB) and type 'boot mta0:' to load and run BOOTM program. > Then, type '/tm02' to execute it. It will load and run Monitor. > Following instructions that Monitor ask you for. First time, use > 'DESTROY' to initialize emulated RP06 disk file. When you answer > 'Y' to start system up, you should see a dot prompt. > I will write installation how to install other tapes into system. TOPS-10 Operators Guide: http://www.36bit.org/dec/manual/ So far everyones experience is showing that you need an x86 box running Linux to run this (and not every version of Linux). Work is going on to get this running on other OS's right now. Right now there is no installation guide for installing TOPS-10 v7.0x. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 8 10:54:43 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <20010308095447.M32444@alcor.concordia.ca> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> <00c701c0a770$67aeab50$db769a8d@ajp166> <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308104824.02aad530@pc> At 09:54 AM 3/8/01 -0500, Rich Lafferty wrote: >> Frankly, I don't think they could handle it. Does the open source >> community have the same number of full-time man-hours available to a >> new task of this size? > >TINOSC. HAND! I'm in support of one hand clapping and even invisible hands, but who's the "us" in Sellam's "well if they'd just hand it over to us", and who's to say what would be accomplished? Handing over the Microsoft source base wouldn't necessarily solve the problems that this thread was once about. The Microsoft code would undergo massive ecological and evolutionary changes, long-term and short-term, like dumping a barge of fertilizer in the ocean. As for WINE, I thought http://neomueller.org/~isamu/line/line.php was pretty cool, too. It's along the lines of the hypothetical Microsoft distro I dreamed of: it can do Linux as well as Redmond. - John From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 8 11:06:52 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Non Obvious commands or missuses of common commands Message-ID: >('The DIR command >on this computer doesn't print a directory, it's Delete I-nodes >Recursively and will wipe the entire filesystem' would tell me NOT to >type DIR under any circumstances!) Are there any commands like that? That is, are there any exceedingly mundane commands on some systems that have exceedingly jeopardous results on other systems? I used to define a lot of commands in DCL in my startup file that I commonly used and named them with weird names. I have accidentally typed the same command on a PC and ended up with unexpected results. After 5-10 years of using the command on the VAX I could barely remember the actual DCL. I also used nested command procedures. $GETMRI $DMPMRI $COMPRESSMRI $DECOMPRESSMRI $CLEAN My clean command deleted all files in the directory and removed any subdirectories. I once typed clean when I was in one of my source code directories. Lots of fast CTRL-C and slamming of keys trying to abort it. We were all logged in with lots of privileges which can be a problem. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 10:00:16 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > I've often thought about what the rag-tag open source community would > do if they had the Windows source - the whole kit and caboodle. I'd > guess that the entire Microsoft source base (counting apps, developer > tools, in-house tools, and all the DDK (device driver) tools, etc.) > are close to two orders of magnitude more code and data than the > average four-CD Linux distro. Frankly, I don't think they could > handle it. Does the open source community have the same number of > full-time man-hours available to a new task of this size? What about > writers and managers, not just counting programers? C'mon, John. You're a programmer. But surely you must have forgotten what it was like to be a young programmer tearing up code to bits late into the night. Programmers would descend upon MS code like locusts and just eat that shit up. You wouldn't see change over night, but within a year (probably less) reports would come out of people finding and fixing numerous major bugs in all sorts of MS offerings, the first probably being the MS kernel. Bugs that MS staff either wouldn't acknowledge were there or probably didn't KNOW were there. And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Thu Mar 8 11:17:56 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Didn't Mark Williams' Coherent run on 286 boxes, or was it > >> strictly 386 and above? I messed with it a little 11-12 years ago > >> and had it running on a generic 386SX-16 box with 4meg of RAM and a > >> 40meg HD. > > > >Depends upon the version. There was a version for 8086 before the > >286 version. > > Now that you mention it, you're right. That was the reason I > picked it up, because of it's light hardware requirements for a > Unix-type OS. It was also reasonably priced. I saw a positive > review of it in one of the big IBM-PC magazines and ordered it. I > wouldn't mind finding a complete Coherent package again...I have no > idea whatever happened to the one I had. Yes, I checked it. Coherent run on 286 with the usual 64K code and 64K data limitation, but the best: You can download a full binary distributions and the kernel sources from : ftp.mayn.de/pub/coherent I will now try to get it running on my 286 ... mario From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 8 11:25:46 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: Cars and planes are computers My cousin informs me that 60% of all non mechanical repairs on cars are computer related. The car comes in and some gadget will not work, they try swapping parts until it works or if unable to solve it swap the car's computer. They don't have the expensive equipment that will simulate each device and then test the circuit. The manufacturer's test the returned parts and 40% turn out to be OK. Maybe that's why there are no more "service stations" any more. I seem to remember that some legislator wanted anybody who claimed to be a "service station" to offer service. I know McDonnell-Douglas was testing the same thing for fighter planes. Most of the time they swap boards. They have developed test benches that test the boards. I remember that computers were swapped in the planes and then off you go. How would you survive a disk crash? It's interesting that were haven't yet heard of any computer virus problems with cars and planes. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 8 11:32:52 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308112941.02a8e550@pc> At 08:00 AM 3/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >C'mon, John. You're a programmer. But surely you must have forgotten >what it was like to be a young programmer tearing up code to bits late >into the night. I haven't forgotten. I just don't think today's programmers, young or old, are yearning to refine some obscure end of Access or Word or Outlook unless someone's paying them Bill's rates. - John From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 11:56:08 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: >You wouldn't see change over night, but within a year (probably less) >reports would come out of people finding and fixing numerous major bugs in >all sorts of MS offerings, the first probably being the MS kernel. Bugs >that MS staff either wouldn't acknowledge were there or probably didn't >KNOW were there. > >And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 12:10:18 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: >I know McDonnell-Douglas was testing the same thing for fighter planes. >Most of the time they swap boards. They have developed test benches that >test the boards. I remember that computers were swapped in the planes and >then off you go. How would you survive a disk crash? It's interesting >that were haven't yet heard of any computer virus problems with cars and >planes. It's a matter of economics. It's a LOT cheaper to swap the boards in the field than to troubleshoot them. Just send the boards to DEPO where they are better equiped (skills and tools) to do component level repair. Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 8 12:29:22 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: <200103081453.GAA08580@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > > Weird. Do you have a Disk Tools disk for it? You can boot off a floppy and > circumvent that, it sounds like a weird INIT or Extension. What version of > MacOS does it look like? I'm a Mac ignoramus. I owned a broken 512k briefly, but was never able to fix it. Unfortunately, I can't answer these questions. Without a keyboard, I can't navigate enough, and didn't see any info regarding version when it was booting. > > SE/30s use regular old ADB mice and keyboards. Every swap meet has nine > billion of them, but CompUSA still sells new ADB mice and keyboards if you > don't mind the highway robbery. Look for the small circular plug with four > pins and one big plastic prong. DON'T BUY THE USB ONES. ;-) I looked briefly on e-bay, and found I could buy a full SE/30 with keyboard and mouse for $20 + S&H, so I'm going to hope I don't have to spend (any or a lot) of money. > > I don't know about OpenBSD, but NetBSD is definitely supported on > that model. OpenBSD supports the SE/30. That's one of the first things I checked :) Anything that NetBSD supported, when OpenBSD broke off, is still supported. > Beware, since the SE/30 has 24-bit "dirty" ROMs. My advice is to > land a copy > of System 7.1 (or 7.5.3; Apple has that free for download although it will > be a slower boot than 7.1 on that system), wipe the machine, > install Mode32 > if 7.5.3 doesn't include it already, and then install NetBSD. > (NetBSD requires > MacOS to boot.) I looked briefly for System 7.5.3, but didn't find it. Admittedly I didn't search long, but when I get a kb/mouse, I'll worry about that. From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 11:19:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > then off you go. How would you survive a disk crash? It's interesting that > were haven't yet heard of any computer virus problems with cars and planes. We will once MS makes Windows TG* for automobiles. * TG = "To Go" (I am so clever.) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 11:20:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308112941.02a8e550@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > I haven't forgotten. I just don't think today's programmers, young or > old, are yearning to refine some obscure end of Access or Word or > Outlook unless someone's paying them Bill's rates. Yeah, you're right. I failed to consider all the Linux millionaires running around out there. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 11:21:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > >You wouldn't see change over night, but within a year (probably less) > >reports would come out of people finding and fixing numerous major bugs in > >all sorts of MS offerings, the first probably being the MS kernel. Bugs > >that MS staff either wouldn't acknowledge were there or probably didn't > >KNOW were there. > > > >And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! > > Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working > independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? Hey, Steve, ever heard of Linux? Duh. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 12:28:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 In-Reply-To: <000701c0a782$747cd8e0$0401a8c0@bill> from "William G. Schneberg" at Mar 7, 1 07:47:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/071ff493/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 12:29:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <984027250.3aa71072c2888@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 7, 1 10:54:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/82da966c/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 8 12:37:30 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most aircraft are "black box" changes and then a depot level or inshop will swap internals. Remember way back when VW was still pumping cars out in the US (PA I think) and they could hook you up to a proprietary tester that would test the entire electronics to see what was wrong? That was great for them, sucked for mechanics as it took work away from the neighborhood mechanic and made it where only VW could do these tests. Many GM and Fords have specialty testers and even though there are aftermarket units they cost too musch for mom and pop to justify for the family car. I think there should be a built in system that the OWNER can use in these cars. My 86 Aerostar has a digital dash and it does offer a built in test but unless a mechanic tells you or you have the "shop" manual from Ford (8" thick) you won't know it's there. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of McFadden, Mike Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:26 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Cars and planes are computers My cousin informs me that 60% of all non mechanical repairs on cars are computer related. The car comes in and some gadget will not work, they try swapping parts until it works or if unable to solve it swap the car's computer. They don't have the expensive equipment that will simulate each device and then test the circuit. The manufacturer's test the returned parts and 40% turn out to be OK. Maybe that's why there are no more "service stations" any more. I seem to remember that some legislator wanted anybody who claimed to be a "service station" to offer service. I know McDonnell-Douglas was testing the same thing for fighter planes. Most of the time they swap boards. They have developed test benches that test the boards. I remember that computers were swapped in the planes and then off you go. How would you survive a disk crash? It's interesting that were haven't yet heard of any computer virus problems with cars and planes. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 8 12:46:29 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working > independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. Gee, sounds like some projects we have today. From spc at conman.org Thu Mar 8 12:48:05 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 08, 2001 08:00:16 AM Message-ID: <200103081848.NAA11325@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sellam Ismail once stated: > > On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > > > I've often thought about what the rag-tag open source community would > > do if they had the Windows source - the whole kit and caboodle. I'd > > guess that the entire Microsoft source base (counting apps, developer > > tools, in-house tools, and all the DDK (device driver) tools, etc.) > > are close to two orders of magnitude more code and data than the > > average four-CD Linux distro. Frankly, I don't think they could > > handle it. Does the open source community have the same number of > > full-time man-hours available to a new task of this size? What about > > writers and managers, not just counting programers? > > C'mon, John. You're a programmer. But surely you must have forgotten > what it was like to be a young programmer tearing up code to bits late > into the night. The two largest open source projects, Linux and Mozilla, both total maybe 3-4 million lines of code. It's estimated that there are anywhere from 5 to 50 million lines of code in Windows. You also have to contend with finding any open source programmers willing to even *work* with Microsoft code. > Programmers would descend upon MS code like locusts and just eat that shit > up. You wouldn't see change over night, but within a year (probably > less) reports would come out of people finding and fixing numerous > major bugs in all sorts of MS offerings, the first probably being the MS > kernel. Bugs that MS staff either wouldn't acknowledge were there or > probably didn't KNOW were there. When Netscape was released, it was 1.5 million lines of code (I counted. Very boring work 8-) and it took *how* long to get a working version? Two years? When it was released, Netscape wouldn't even compile, since large portions where ripped out because of cross licensing issues. And I know there is IBM code within Windows (or the MS-DOS portion). That has to either come out, or some deal struck with IBM to release that code. And that's just IBM. Who know what other companies have code in there? > And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! You've never had to maintain code, have you? -spc (Let me tell you about hacker code ... it ain't pretty ... ) From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 13:05:23 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: > > Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working >independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. > >Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? > >Hey, Steve, ever heard of Linux? > >Duh. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Hey Sellam, even heard of any Linux billionaires? Duh. Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 8 13:07:53 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010308130753.00927bd0@ubanproductions.com> At 01:10 PM 3/8/01 -0500, you wrote: > >>I know McDonnell-Douglas was testing the same thing for fighter planes. >>Most of the time they swap boards. They have developed test benches that >>test the boards. I remember that computers were swapped in the planes and >>then off you go. How would you survive a disk crash? It's interesting >>that were haven't yet heard of any computer virus problems with cars and >>planes. > >It's a matter of economics. It's a LOT cheaper to swap the boards in the >field than to troubleshoot them. Just send the boards to DEPO where they are >better equiped (skills and tools) to do component level repair. Besides, it is a great economic model for the dealer/manufacturer: A - Customer brings in broken car B - Dealer swaps computer and charges customer $1000 C - Manufacturer gets trade in computer which is likely still good D - Customer's problem comes back, goto A --tom From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Mar 8 13:10:48 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > ever heard of any Linux billionaires? Yes, but that was last year when RHAT had a $20B market cap. Now they're just millionaires like you and me. Cheers, Doug From elvey at hal.com Thu Mar 8 13:44:07 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:04 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi There has always been several problems with the central repair shop method. The biggest is lost expertise. When done like this, only a few people understand a particular module. With people moving on to other jobs, deaths and other things, sometimes the needed knowledge gets lost. It iskind of like maintaining a minimum population of a species. There is another problem that I have had personal experience with. When the module it sent back, the test environment isn't the same as the real one. They find no problem with the module ( sounds like the car thing doesn't it but this is a different case ). The module is sent back with the problem still in it. This was from a manufacture and the same error would occationally happen on the line. At one point 15% of the units received were experiencing the same problem. A quick check on serial number showed that most all were returned for that problem. It eventually got straightened out but I can tell you that it was annoying to turn on the computer and find that the chassis was wired to the hot lead of the power. You'd ask your self how could such a problem exist without someone at the factory noticing it? Although this was a specific case, the problem is generic to the of assuming that any test, other than the one in the real application, is truely a valid test. The more we depend on the specmenship to define the test criteria, the greater the risk that things like black boxes in airplanes will fail. Things are just getting too complicated and there is thought that the DEPO concept can keep up with it. My experience has shown that it just makes the problem harder to deal with and the reaction time, in case of a problem, to be slowed by red tape. Dwight On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > > >I know McDonnell-Douglas was testing the same thing for fighter planes. > >Most of the time they swap boards. They have developed test benches that > >test the boards. I remember that computers were swapped in the planes and > >then off you go. How would you survive a disk crash? It's interesting > >that were haven't yet heard of any computer virus problems with cars and > >planes. > > It's a matter of economics. It's a LOT cheaper to swap the boards in the > field than to troubleshoot them. Just send the boards to DEPO where they are > better equiped (skills and tools) to do component level repair. > > Steve > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > From jss at ou.edu Thu Mar 8 13:45:31 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984080731.3aa7e15b46ed9@email.ou.edu> > Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers > working independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. Indeed it does work. That's how most projects are in the open-source world. We don't have managers, we have leaders. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From jss at ou.edu Thu Mar 8 13:48:43 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984080923.3aa7e21bdedd6@email.ou.edu> > > > Slightly different topic : Commands that don't do what a reasonable > > > user > > > > TRON and TROFF in GWBASIC. :-) > > I suppose that TRON should transport you into the future, or similar, > while TROFF should run a typesetting program, yes? Yup. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 13:52:17 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: > > > And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! > > You've never had to maintain code, have you? > > -spc (Let me tell you about hacker code ... it ain't pretty ... ) > OK since MS is not likely to hand over their code. let's look at another possibility that's not all that remote. Let's assume the LINUX overcomes it's greatest weakness (consumer acceptance) and gets the lions share in the OS market. In that situation who are the winners and who are the loosers? Who would win and why? Who would loose and why? Would you be one of the winners or one of the loosers? Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 13:52:22 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: > > > And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! > > You've never had to maintain code, have you? > > -spc (Let me tell you about hacker code ... it ain't pretty ... ) > OK since MS is not likely to hand over their code. let's look at another possibility that's not all that remote. Let's assume the LINUX overcomes it's greatest weakness (consumer acceptance) and gets the lions share in the OS market. In that situation who are the winners and who are the loosers? Who would win and why? Who would loose and why? Would you be one of the winners or one of the loosers? Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 8 14:06:05 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: > > ever heard of any Linux billionaires? > >Yes, but that was last year when RHAT had a $20B market cap. Now they're >just millionaires like you and me. > >Cheers, >Doug > Oh... The Robin hoods of the software world and friends to software engineers everywhere. Wonder how much their developers get paid... Oh that's right, they don't get paid anything. The software is built by well intending engineers and given to them for free... DOH! Makes Bill Gates look like a prince. At least he pays his engineers. Steve Robertson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 13:04:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <3AA7765B.7D0D7012@irit.fr> from "Ralph SOBEK" at Mar 8, 1 01:08:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 717 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/8935daea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 14:07:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 8, 1 12:37:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1098 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/7d4a780a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 13:32:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: from "McFadden, Mike" at Mar 8, 1 11:25:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2984 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/5ad320bf/attachment.ksh From peter at joules.org Thu Mar 8 14:53:53 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Mario Premke wrote: > > Yes, I checked it. Coherent run on 286 with the usual 64K code and 64K > data limitation, but the best: You can download a full binary > distributions and the kernel sources from : ftp.mayn.de/pub/coherent > I will now try to get it running on my 286 ... Thanks for posting that, I am downloading it ATM and will have a play with it ;-) -- Regards Pete From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Mar 8 14:46:15 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: ; from steven_j_robertson@hotmail.com on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 03:06:05PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20010308154615.I23409@alcor.concordia.ca> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 03:06:05PM -0500, Steve Robertson (steven_j_robertson@hotmail.com) wrote: > > > ever heard of any Linux billionaires? > > > >Yes, but that was last year when RHAT had a $20B market cap. Now they're > >just millionaires like you and me. > > Oh... The Robin hoods of the software world and friends to software > engineers everywhere. Wonder how much their developers get paid... Oh that's > right, they don't get paid anything. That's funny; the Red Hat developers that I know get paid enough that I'd be quite happy to land a job there. To take another example, O'Reilly and Associates has Larry Wall on their payroll, and his sole responsibility with them (beyond things PR) is to guide development efforts on Perl. On that arrangement, he says: "Essentially, my position is what you call a patronage. It's a very old-fashioned idea which goes back to the time when there was an aristocracy and they would support artists and musicians. They would have a patron. Tim O'Reilly is my patron. He pays me to create things, to kind of be in charge of the Perl culture." -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From granmamaas at aol.com Thu Mar 8 14:47:49 2001 From: granmamaas at aol.com (granmamaas@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: test for susceptibility to third-party mail relay Message-ID: This is a test of third-party mail relay, generated by the "rlytest" utility. Target host = www.dot.ca.gov Test performed by A well-configured mail server should NOT relay third-party email. Otherwise, the server is subject to attack and hijack by Internet vandals and spammers. For information on how to secure a mail server against third-party relay, visit . From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 8 15:06:11 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <20010308154615.I23409@alcor.concordia.ca> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308150437.02a3fdf0@pc> At 03:46 PM 3/8/01 -0500, Rich Lafferty wrote: >To take another example, O'Reilly and Associates has Larry Wall on >their payroll, and his sole responsibility with them (beyond things >PR) is to guide development efforts on Perl. Looks like they're having some misgivings about software development in general, though: http://software.oreilly.com/news.cfm?ID_News=200 Sez Tim O: "Yes, we've made a strategic decision to stop the development of future software products..." - John From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 14:11:34 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I/O uses standard parts, but it's a little odd to see 6522 VIAs in an > 8088 machine. There are 3 on the motherboard : It makes sense when you learn Chuck Peddle designed the Sirius/Victor 9000. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 14:14:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > > > Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working > >independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. > > > >Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? > > > >Hey, Steve, ever heard of Linux? > > > >Duh. > > Hey Sellam, even heard of any Linux billionaires? > > Duh. Hey Steve, nice non sequitur! Keep 'em coming, guy! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 14:21:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: > >Yes, but that was last year when RHAT had a $20B market cap. Now they're > >just millionaires like you and me. > > Oh... The Robin hoods of the software world and friends to software > engineers everywhere. Wonder how much their developers get paid... Oh that's > right, they don't get paid anything. The software is built by well intending > engineers and given to them for free... DOH! > > Makes Bill Gates look like a prince. At least he pays his engineers. What a cynic. And a misinformed one at that. RedHat sells support. End of story. Anyone contributing development effort towards Linux knows what the rewards and remunerations are. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 8 06:34:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17630F@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <1070.467T350T8143663optimus@canit.se> Julian Richardson skrev: >Don't get me wrong, I hate Microsoft as much as anyone else, but fair dues >to them for trying to bring computers to the masses. In my opinion they're >going about it in totally the wrong way though; don't throw together a lot >of buggy, bloated software the looks nice and on the surface is easy to use >- instead build a robust, logical product and provide good documentation on >how to use it. Expect your users to have to actually *learn* something in >order to harness its potential. Why does everyone spread this blatant lie? Microsoft have never done anything to make computers easier! They were among the last to provide a functioning GUI! What have MS ever done to make computers easier? Mimic Apple et al? Following a general trend has never been my definition of actively working or contributing towards a goal. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Your hamster might, despite some encouraging first steps, never be able to fully grasp the concept of Logical Markup. -- The Not So Short Introduction to LaTex2e, "Disadvantages of LaTex" From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 8 06:17:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1231.467T850T7974807optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: >> It's not Microsoft ... nor is it any other software house ... it's >> the dummies who prefer the glitz and glamour, taking appearance over >As someone else here stated, perhaps people who lack the intellect to >be able use some random flavor of UNIX, VMS, etc. shouldn't be using >computers. That said, I believe that most computers users are not >incapable of using *NIX, etc.; they're not lacking intellegence, >they're just naieve when it comes to computers, and they would >probably like *NIX, etc. once they began using it. I use *NIX and I hate it. I find this whole Linux on a desktop business laughable. Why would one want a UNIX system anywhere but locked up in a cupboard or on a researcher's workstation? I'd never drive a lorry to work, nor do I like the M$ Volvo. The Vespa is much nicer for a single person. >Blame the U.S. government for fuel economy regulations that killed off >nice cars, not the U.S. auto manufacturers. Why is that? Isn't petrol cheap enough in the states? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Och har du en TV utan Scart, vilket nittionio procent faktiskt har, kommer de f?rmodligen att ringa fr?n Antikrundan. Martin Timell From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 8 05:59:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: "Shirt pocket diskettes" (was: What used these? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <331.467T1300T7794729optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> There were several that came out: >> 3" (think Amstrad) [snip] >The (somewhat uncommon) disk drive for the Oric was also a 3" unit. Of course, since Amstrad had bought out the Spectrum computers, the Spectrum +3 had an internal 3" drive as well. Very pretty machine, too. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Mar 8 16:22:44 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And once again I'm reminded that 'the machines are out there...' (just when I was starting to wonder) I get this phone call, and shortly thereafter am the proud possessor of an Exidy Sourcerer complete with the original documentation, (including the tech ref - schematics!) monitor, cables, box of tapes, and various third party books and such! (Dilithium Press - now *that* brings back memories!) And oh yes, BASIC in the infamous (slightly modified) 8-Track Tape cartridge! Recycling at its most unusual! (odd, peculiar, etc...) Just too much fun! Now, who has some *really* cool games for the thing??? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 16:20:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Victor 9000 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 8, 1 12:11:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/7acb16f8/attachment.ksh From dannydz at mailandnews.com Thu Mar 8 16:31:50 2001 From: dannydz at mailandnews.com (Daniel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: References: <3AA7765B.7D0D7012@irit.fr> Message-ID: <3i1gatcdl2f9f1std6oln333bf0aabfmb4@4ax.com> I just tried using a Dremel on a Dallas Semiconductor DS1287 real time chip pulled from a PS/2 30/286.. I went down 1/4 of an inch (halfway) into the chip before I struck metal.. and unless you're willing to wear out your Dremel tip by removing all of the hard plastic around the metal batteries, I don't expect you'll have much luck with Dallas timer chips. There is no outer plastic box; it's all solid. I wish it wasn't; it would be neat to see one that was hollow. Daniel >I've not tried it myself, but I am told you can cut away the top part of >the device using (e.g.) a Dremel tool, remove the old batteries and put a >couple of cheap lithium cells in. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 8 16:35:48 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes References: Message-ID: <3AA80944.83081D75@internet1.net> "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > How would you survive a disk crash? They probably don't use disks. I know that older jets, like the F4 Phantom... not sure about newer ones, used core memory. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 8 16:36:12 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: interesting Amiga article with pic from VCF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010308163612.00942730@ubanproductions.com> For those who are interested, the latest issue (March) of IEEE Spectrum has an article "Amiga: The Computer That Wouldn't Die", complete with a picture from the Vintage Computer Fair... --tom From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Mar 8 16:44:11 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nice snag Jim, What I remember that stood out with this machine was the reprogrammable font characters at a time when most of them were fixed. Had a really fun version of 'Space Invaders' too..... A worthy add to the collection! George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, James Willing wrote: > And once again I'm reminded that 'the machines are out there...' > (just when I was starting to wonder) > > I get this phone call, and shortly thereafter am the proud possessor of an > Exidy Sourcerer complete with the original documentation, (including the > tech ref - schematics!) monitor, cables, box of tapes, and various third > party books and such! (Dilithium Press - now *that* brings back > memories!) > > And oh yes, BASIC in the infamous (slightly modified) 8-Track Tape > cartridge! Recycling at its most unusual! (odd, peculiar, etc...) > > Just too much fun! Now, who has some *really* cool games for the thing??? > > -jim > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original > 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 8 16:31:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: HP9877 External Tape Memory Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2129 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010308/f50bc4df/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 8 16:41:55 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: Message-ID: <3AA80AB3.E6159D2@internet1.net> What is BI, DSSI, and SI? Sorry, I haven't gotten very deep into Vaxs yet. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Will Jennings wrote: > > Ewww, SCSI drives on a BI machine? Only stuff I use SCSI in is MicroVAXen > and lil bitty Alpha's... DSSI or SI is all I'd want for a BI machine... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jerryjh at imt.net Thu Mar 8 16:43:29 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums Message-ID: <200103082232.PAA27111@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-07 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >Technology improved (?) and processors could clock faster. >Therefore many of the tricks were no longer necessary, and fell out >of use. The 'new technology' allowed for faster speed *and* faster profits at the expense of finer quality programming. The hallmark of fine programming should be stability, efficiency and speed -- IN THAT ORDER. The "tricks" should have been regarded as tried and true *techniques* to be applied carefully to future programming practices. Unfortunately, greed has prevailed up until now, and present computer technology is in an inspirational, qualitative slump. >The sort of education I was thinking about was now 'how computers >really work'. Much of how a processor works, at least in general >terms, is the same for a PDP11 or a PC. The difference is that the >former is documented and understandable. The folks responsible for what has happened with computer "under- development" -- and those with the requisite resources capable of turning around the poor quality of computer/software development -- are certainly well aware of what could be done with better computer education and design. Their first and immediate concern for now is business survival. This is where the focus of their energy lies. They tell the public who might complain that they're just getting what they've been demanding: more, sooner and faster; do so or die. Should we give a drug addict more drugs to solve his problem? No! The drugs should be banished, despite the painful withdrawal symptoms, and the addict's life must be restructured. The same fate lies before the computer industry. Until the 'addiction' of speed is cured, more insanity and industrial degradation will continue. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 8 16:31:48 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: Message-ID: <01ac01c0a81f$90ebd100$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 2:34 AM Subject: Re: Value of a small VAX farm > Ewww, SCSI drives on a BI machine? Only stuff I use SCSI in is MicroVAXen > and lil bitty Alpha's... DSSI or SI is all I'd want for a BI machine... Actually, 6K's are an XMI and BI machine, some are XMI only, (I have one of those, no BI card cage.) Ok, find me an SDI CDROM and I'll take the SCSI controller out of the 6K-440 in the next room. :^) Actually, I won't, as it also talks to my 4mm DAT. I don't recall ever seeing anything in DSSI or SDI for CD or DAT. (Better yet, find me a SCSI channel card for an HSC70 so I can put them on the cluster a bit easier) CPU and RAM in a 6K are XMI only, the 'slow' buss is used by peripherals, my XMI only box had DSSI, ram, cpus and ethernet adapters in the XMI cage. I believe there is now an XMI SCSI card available, but I don't think it would fit my budget anytime soon. The only 6K compatible DSSI controller I have (actually in my personal 6K-430) is the XMI one. I currently don't have any DSSI drives, which is a bit of a shame as I have a DSSI Microvax 3400 - minus disks - that would love some. They are scarce around here. My personal 6K also has KDB-50 (BI based SDI) connected to 2 RA90's that live in the bottom of the cabinet. DSSI (XMI based) SCSI (Disk only - BI based) and CI (HSC support - BI based) All genuine DEC except the SCSI adapter which is a CMD CBI-1000M. I have one CBI-1000/TM (Tape and disk) - it's in the machine at work here, and talks to our 4MM DAT and Sony CDROM. I still have a spare CBI-1000M at home in another cabinet. It's interesting to note that Ficomp (USA) still list the CMD CBI-1000/xx Vax SCSI controllers, brand new @ $1400US each, with the (presumably upgraded) CBI-1010/xx @ $1900US. At last count I had 4 6K's at home. Only one is up and going. Of the others, one has a PSU problem, (must get around to that, plenty of spares ;^) the others are minus cpus and ram. (Transplanted into my personal 6K and the machine at work. I have the innards of another that I scrapped (the dropped off the forklift one - originally a 6000-240). 2 TA79's (not in use) 2 HSC50's (not in use), and several drive cabinets with RA70's and RA9x drives (spares mostly) though some of the RA70's might find their way into another 6K cabinet. I also have a few RA81's and a couple of 82's, but don't plan on using them. (The lights dim when they start) I scrapped a TA78/TU78 pair last year, since the PSU had seriously died in the master. Nice air compressors. ;^) I will probably find a use for the vaccuum pumps one day. Fascinating technology, the entire tape deck runs on air and vaccuum, even the motors are air driven. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 8 16:52:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Yes, I checked it. Coherent run on 286 with the usual 64K code and 64K >data limitation, but the best: You can download a full binary >distributions and the kernel sources from : ftp.mayn.de/pub/coherent >I will now try to get it running on my 286 ... I found the Coherent FAQ online last night and it seems to date from sometime in 1993 but it has a ton of excellent info about it. It states that Version 3.2 would run on a 286 while Version 4.0 required a 386 processor. If I remember correctly, I was running Version 1.0 or 1.1 and this was in 1990 after I had seen a review of it in 'PC Sources'. It was the main IBM-type magazine that I read at the time, though I also liked 'PCM', 'Amiga World' and 'Micro80'. For anyone interested in the FAQ, it can be found at: http://personales.mundivia.es/varel/coherent/ Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From curt at atari-history.com Thu Mar 8 16:53:50 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Metaphor terminals References: Message-ID: <000e01c0a822$a49cae60$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi, Don't know if anyone is familiar with these. Back around 1988 I was working as a technician installing Mac's and PC's and there was one room in the company that had several terminals which were called "Metaphor" and used a black/white or black/green terminal screen, keyboard and a detachable IR mouse. The OS was all graphically based. I've searched around the web from time to time looking for one, but I've never seen any, has anyone else run across these or is there someone with a site that has images and most importantly, anyone have a working unit to sell/trade??? Curt From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 8 17:10:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >What I remember that stood out with this machine was the reprogrammable >font characters at a time when most of them were fixed. Had a really fun >version of 'Space Invaders' too..... That was one of the things I found interesting about the TRS-80 Model 2000. It's character set for the display was totally RAM based and there used to be a shareware program that allowed you to modify and redefine it, loading your font at boot. It made for some interesting effects. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 8 12:33:52 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <012301c0a798$80a776a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20010308233417.UCUA21945.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Geoff Roberts" > To: > Subject: Re: Virus Alert !!! > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:54:59 +1030 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > The point you seem to have overlooked is that even the basic, as > delivered, fridge is > broken in various places under conditions of normal useage. (ie 'as it > was when I got it') > Yet they still want my money to fix their broken as designed fridge. > Need I mention the various Win98SE shutdown bugs? (to name just one > known issue) > I'm sure you know of plenty more? Yes, same with shutdown bug on 98 (not SE) too. Once in awhile power didn't go off and I had to manually turn it off. win95 nothing wrong with it's shutdown on ATX machines. Wizard From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 8 17:48:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... Message-ID: <009401c0a82a$eaef7bb0$8b779a8d@ajp166> >Most of the time, all that's wrong with these is the lithium battery. The >package is actually a standard DIP IC package with some more epoxy on top >containing the batteries and the crystal (if appropriate). > >I've not tried it myself, but I am told you can cut away the top part of >the device using (e.g.) a Dremel tool, remove the old batteries and put a >couple of cheap lithium cells in. I've done it on dallas chips. I walk them to the machine shop and sand off the plastic slowly till I hit metal (battery). You can use a magnet to locate the battery. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 8 18:03:37 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: <00b701c0a82d$0c5b5240$8b779a8d@ajp166> From: Chad Fernandez > >They probably don't use disks. I know that older jets, like the F4 >Phantom... not sure about newer ones, used core memory. The A6 intruders during the Veitnam era were serial based on a fixed disk. It was part of the nav and targeting system and not fly by wire. Allison From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Mar 8 18:19:14 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA01F12.3586.61C5884@localhost> References: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AA7DB32.12767.777DD5@localhost> Oops again. I'm embarassed. Never take it for granted that you know your own equipment. After numerous years of banging my knee on my PS/2 8580, Chad's msg. piqued me enough to actually take off the side (and clean it at the same time). Sure enough it is some sort of composite material, altho it must be close to the weight of sheet metal. Ditto for the 8560. And of course the PCjr. Betrayed by IBM ;^ ( . And My spare 80 even has a crack in it's side panel to prove it. Treachorous corporations !! Take that. Ouch. The damn handle is indeed steel. larry > > > > Hello Edwin! > > > > "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > > > > > > Welcome! > > > Well Chad, it varies a lot who has what in their collection. > > > Personally, I have micro collection like you do. There's not that > > > much space in my 1 br apartment, and micros are what I grew up > > > with. To me, 80's micros are /real/ computers. > > > > I have a 2 bedroom apt, that is way too full with computer "junk". > > That is one of the reasons I want to..... what's a good word, maybe > > refine?, my collocation. > > > > > I think your Model 80 is cool because this micro built like a > > > tank and > > > weighs a ton reminds me of what the IBM corporation is like. The > > > way the insides are arranged is really Gothic. > > > > This has always been a mystery to me, since I bought mine. Everyone > > always talks about how heavy, and "built like a tank" these > > computers are. I don't think mine is that heavy, maybe because I > > don't have dual full height drives? I was expecting the case to be > > made from think steel, but mine is some sort of plastic > > (composite?). That said, it is currently one of my favorite > > computers :-) > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > Better check that model number again. The 386 8580's (and the > less expensive 286 8560 look-a-like) are heavy-guage steel full- > tower boxes with pull-out metal floor stand and a steel fold-up > handle which must have been put on for weight-lifting exercise, > since no normal strength person would carry it more than 20 yards > without resting. Most 80s also came with 2 large ESDI HDs which must > weigh between 10-15lbs. each and a 1/2 ht. 14.4 FDD. > I have 2 of them and a 60 among my IBM collection. > Hmm. In walking around clunking my IBMs, only my 8557 and > 8590 came up non-metal. Even the PCjr, PS/1s and Ambra's were > metal cased. I suspect you have an 8590 desktop which is a nice > MCA machine with a SCSI bus. > > ciao larry > > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Mar 8 18:19:15 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Sinclair Toaster In-Reply-To: <008201c0a68d$b6834670$7d794ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3AA7DB33.1984.777E11@localhost> > From: Iggy Drougge > > >> It's wonderful to finally have Workbench on a harddisk. > > > > And it only cost 15USD? You utter bastard. > > *blush* Well to be fair... it was missing the keyboard, mouse, and > monitor cable for the included 1084S. But I had them sitting in the > corner waiting for this find event... ;) > Aaarghh ! And you got a 1084S with it as well !! That's really rubbing salt in the wound. I have 3 Amigas and I've been trying to encourage a friend who has a toaster, in his thinking that he really should upgrade to a new whiz-bang Wintel box and let me have his. Of course when reality sunk in he'd likely demand it back. (Sigh) > > If you need to identify the cards, use a program such as WhichAmiga > > or a modern ShowBoards. I'll mail them to you if you like. > > That might be necesary and appreciated if I can't get a handle on > them. What I'd really like is a C compiler with an API toolkit for the > Toaster and TBC subsystems... > > Cheers > - Mike > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Mar 8 18:29:57 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm In-Reply-To: <01ac01c0a81f$90ebd100$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010308162819.024262a0@208.226.86.10> >Actually, I won't, as it also talks to my 4mm DAT. I don't recall ever >seeing anything in DSSI or SDI for CD or DAT. Back before I knew I could use such things, I turned down an offer for half a dozen "DSSI <-> SCSI" bridge cards. These things talked DSSI to the VAX and could talk to 7 SCSI devices. It presented like an HSC box. Sigh. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 8 17:22:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: interesting Amiga article with pic from VCF In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010308163612.00942730@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > For those who are interested, the latest issue (March) of IEEE Spectrum > has an article "Amiga: The Computer That Wouldn't Die", complete with > a picture from the Vintage Computer Fair... ^^^^ - Festival (nitpicking a peeve :) Sweet! It must be a photo of the prototype Amiga that Dale Luck exhibited? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From nemo at net.house.cx Thu Mar 8 18:43:28 2001 From: nemo at net.house.cx (nemo@net.house.cx) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA7DB32.12767.777DD5@localhost>; from lgwalker@look.ca on Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 07:19:14PM -0500 References: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> <3AA01F12.3586.61C5884@localhost> <3AA7DB32.12767.777DD5@localhost> Message-ID: <20010309114327.A4856@net.house.cx> On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 07:19:14PM -0500, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Oops again. I'm embarassed. Never take it for granted that you > know your own equipment. After numerous years of banging my > knee on my PS/2 8580, Chad's msg. piqued me enough to actually > take off the side (and clean it at the same time). Sure enough it is > some sort of composite material, altho it must be close to the > weight of sheet metal. Ditto for the 8560. And of course the PCjr. > Betrayed by IBM ;^ ( . And My spare 80 even has a crack in it's > side panel to prove it. Treachorous corporations !! Take that. Ouch. > The damn handle is indeed steel. they ARE big beasts aren't they. I can't recall teh model ps/2 I have, but I know that out of me, my best friend, and a loony housemate, only the loony housemate could lift it using his little finger alone. Oh, and the ducted air channels inside. wheee! Any idea what the composite material *is* ? While some may consider it sacrelige, I'd love to build up a modern PC inside that case, but I'd need to do some case mods first... :/ Before you all wince, don't worry. I'm all talk. By the time I'll have the money and time to do this, I wont have the interest ;) .../Nemo From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 8 18:53:04 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) References: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> <3AA7DB32.12767.777DD5@localhost> Message-ID: <3AA82970.C18F0B6A@internet1.net> I swapped the metal handle from the "parts machine" 60 to my 80, so now my 80 has a metal handle instead of the composite handle it originally came with. My 80s case was slightly broken, but I fixed it. One of the mounting locations for the power supply was broken. I used JB Weld to re-attach it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Oops again. I'm embarassed. Never take it for granted that you > know your own equipment. After numerous years of banging my > knee on my PS/2 8580, Chad's msg. piqued me enough to actually > take off the side (and clean it at the same time). Sure enough it is > some sort of composite material, altho it must be close to the > weight of sheet metal. Ditto for the 8560. And of course the PCjr. > Betrayed by IBM ;^ ( . And My spare 80 even has a crack in it's > side panel to prove it. Treachorous corporations !! Take that. Ouch. > The damn handle is indeed steel. > > larry From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 8 18:34:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >It's a matter of economics. It's a LOT cheaper to swap the boards in the >field than to troubleshoot them. Just send the boards to DEPO where they are >better equiped (skills and tools) to do component level repair. I would phrase that, its a lot more PROFITABLE to only do board swaps. Few customers would be happy paying $150 for a couple caps being replaced, but when its a "board swap" they never know. It allows the vendor to completely cover up huge screwups, and makes the user entirely at the mercy of the vendor. The pendulelum is still swinging though, meaning the consequences of BS haven't played out, but BS is here forever. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 8 18:42:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <200103081848.NAA11325@conman.org> References: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 08, 2001 08:00:16 AM Message-ID: > The two largest open source projects, Linux and Mozilla, both total maybe >3-4 million lines of code. It's estimated that there are anywhere from 5 to >50 million lines of code in Windows. The way to fix windows ISN"T to play with the existing code, its to "maybe" document the user interface and program API, then start from the best kernal model you can find for expected hardware and build on that. Wait a minute, thats linux, never mind. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 8 18:05:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010308104339.251faea0@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <20010303005140.LSGT2129.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: > After I got the XT/286 CMOS setup I tried to read the hard drive but it >turns out that the drive is bad. RATS! I was hoping to find software for >the STAG EPROM programmers still on it. That's the only reason that I What does "bad" mean? If it has something you want on it, maybe swapping some parts with another drive might fix it long enough to get the data off. That or some other "brute force" technique. From jss at ou.edu Thu Mar 8 19:00:34 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <984099634.3aa82b3251e96@email.ou.edu> > > Yes, but that was last year when RHAT had a $20B market cap. Now > > they're just millionaires like you and me. > > Wonder how much their developers get paid... Oh that's right, they > don't get paid anything. Umm, I'm quite sure that Red Hat pays its employees. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From marvin at rain.org Thu Mar 8 19:06:13 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: IBM Model 80s was Re: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) References: <3AA009B3.4C69065D@internet1.net> <3AA7DB32.12767.777DD5@localhost> <3AA82970.C18F0B6A@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AA82C85.A1FDD80F@rain.org> Well, if anyone wants to pay the shipping and packaging costs and needs/wants a model 80, I just acquired five of them. I haven't plugged any of them in yet, but since they came from a travel agency that upgraded their computers, I would assume they work but they are easy enough to check out. A superficial look didn't show any damage to the case :). Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I swapped the metal handle from the "parts machine" 60 to my 80, so now > my 80 has a metal handle instead of the composite handle it originally > came with. > > My 80s case was slightly broken, but I fixed it. One of the mounting > locations for the power supply was broken. I used JB Weld to re-attach > it. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > Oops again. I'm embarassed. Never take it for granted that you > > know your own equipment. After numerous years of banging my > > knee on my PS/2 8580, Chad's msg. piqued me enough to actually > > take off the side (and clean it at the same time). Sure enough it is > > some sort of composite material, altho it must be close to the > > weight of sheet metal. Ditto for the 8560. And of course the PCjr. > > Betrayed by IBM ;^ ( . And My spare 80 even has a crack in it's > > side panel to prove it. Treachorous corporations !! Take that. Ouch. > > The damn handle is indeed steel. > > > > larry From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Mar 8 19:07:39 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <20010309114327.A4856@net.house.cx> Message-ID: On 09-Mar-2001 nemo@net.house.cx wrote: > Oh, and the ducted air channels inside. wheee! I'm guessing a model 90. Does it have a LCD panel? The > Any idea what the composite material *is* ? > While some may consider it sacrelige, I'd love to build up a modern > PC inside that case, but I'd need to do some case mods first... :/ I've thought of this myself. In fact I grabed a model 80 for just this reason. Problems : - MCA slots incompatible w/ PCI/ISA - Keyboard port won't line up w/ Baby AT mobo - Nothing will line up on a ATX mobo - Mounting screws for the mobo - Probably need to replace PS (more wattage) - Mounting drives... the case should fit narrow drives (hard disk, floppy) but anything wide (Zip, CD-ROM) will have to be mounted sideways. CD-ROM better use a caddy :) If you want a dead sexy case, get a yy-cube http://www.caseoutlet.com/Server/promo0210.html -Philip From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 8 19:41:12 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <00e501c0a83b$cc8503a0$8b779a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >> The two largest open source projects, Linux and Mozilla, both total maybe >>3-4 million lines of code. It's estimated that there are anywhere from 5 to >>50 million lines of code in Windows. > >The way to fix windows ISN"T to play with the existing code, its to "maybe" >document the user interface and program API, then start from the best >kernal model you can find for expected hardware and build on that. Wait a >minute, thats linux, never mind. Having used of Caldara openlinux 2.3 I can sy they did a good job getting closer to W9x in most ways bad. W9x no matter what version and that includes WinME all suffer from the same two basic problems in my book. The kernal is not well protected from buggy apps and the file system is not protected from buggy apps crashing the kernal. The two things that NT and most of the unix clones seem to have fairly correct. Allison From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 8 20:14:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) References: Message-ID: <3AA83C75.5820AB3F@internet1.net> Guys, Why don't you see if you can find a Reply Powerboard? Thats what I have in mine. It is a 486 class replacement Planer (motherboard in IBM). I am running a Kingston Turbochip in it, with the dumb little fan removed, and a heatsink glued on. It also has 32 bit Microchannel slots, no just 16s. Does the 80 have 32s from the factory? I know the 60 didn't. These boards are on Ebay once ina while, although usually already in an 80 :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 8 21:14:50 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Value of a small VAX farm References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010308162819.024262a0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <006d01c0a847$21bdb8c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Value of a small VAX farm > Back before I knew I could use such things, I turned down an offer for half > a dozen "DSSI <-> SCSI" bridge cards. These things talked DSSI to the VAX > and could talk to 7 SCSI devices. It presented like an HSC box. Sigh. Sigh indeed. Below from http://www.ficompinc.com/CMD/index.htm Device Price CBI-1000/T VAX SCSI TAPE $1400 CBI-1000/M VAX SCSI DISK $1400 CBI-1000/TM VAX SCSI DISK & TAPE $1400 CBI-1010/T VAX SCSI TAPE $1900 CBI-1010/M VAX SCSI DISK $1900 CBI-1010/TM VAX SCSI DISK & TAPE $1900 That's the SCSI controllers CDI-4000-SDA SCSI-DSSI KIT / 1 DEVICE CALL CDI-4000-SDB SCSI-DSSI KIT / 2 DEVICE CALL CDI-4000-SDC SCSI-DSSI KIT / 3 DEVICE $950 These sound similar in concept to what you describe, though I've no idea what they look like. The price is a bit of a stunner. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 8 21:07:57 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:05 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:07:31 +0000 (GMT) . Message-ID: In message , Tony Duell writes: >With microcontroller-controlled engines, most of the time the diagnostic >connector talks to the microcontroller using an undocumented protocol. >It's a lot harder for a hacker like me to make use of it. At least in the US that's changing. The government has put some pressure on the big three manufacturers to work with the SAE to develop and adhere to standards. The steps they've been taking in this direction are the On-Board Diagnostic series OBD-I and OBD-II. These are fairly simple protocols over serial busses and there are a few manufacturers of the chips that talk the physical and link layers. I've been out of that industry for about 2 years, but from what I remember, most of the European and Japanese auto makers were headed in that direction too. Brian From tdeaton at spitfire.net Thu Mar 8 21:49:34 2001 From: tdeaton at spitfire.net (Tim Deaton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp Message-ID: <3AA852CE.79D35580@spitfire.net> I have a nearly new Pied Piper - may be in original box. 1.2Mbyte FDD. It has been a long time since I have seen it in the warehouse (we retired from the computer business after over 20 years - started in 1977) Anyone willing to make me an offer on this one? timdeaton@yahoo.com From mbg at world.std.com Thu Mar 8 22:38:50 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: DEC KS-10 Emulator Now Available Message-ID: <200103090438.XAA25003@world.std.com> I've checked the area on sourceforge and no files are showing up... where are they? Megan From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 23:14:13 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: HP9877 External Tape Memory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010309001413.3caf4d5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tony, You must be forgetfull in your old age :-) We've talked about the 9877 before. I have two of them. Both of mine have four drives in them. They were also available in a two and three drive versions. Each drive after the first one was a option so you had to order three options to get four drives. Basicly the 9877 isn't designed as a mass storage unit although it can be used that way. Originally it was designed to mass produce tapes at HP. You can start the copy and it will copy from one drive to all the other drives in the same box without tying up the calculator or the interface. I do know that they used a special version of the standard HP 98032 16 bit parallel interface, I was able to find that much out from the guys at NASA that have one. I think the only thing unique about it was how some of the jumpers were set and the connector that mated to the 9877. The guys at NASA wouldn't open their interface up and tell me what the settings were. The 9877 did not use any of the built-in calculator or interface commands. Everything was controlled by software programs that came on a tape. You have to have the software tape to use the 9877. AFIK the 9877 could be used with any calculator that could use the 98032 interface IF there was software available to operate it. I know there was software available for the HP 9825. I expect it was available for the 9835 and 9845 as well. One of the interesting features of the 9877 was that it would copy ANY tape file, Binary, Protected, anything! Sort of like a Copy II PC card if you've ever used one of them. I'm sure that was because it was designed to be used to mass produce tapes. An ex-HP calculator engineer told me that they were still using 9825 and 9877s to produce tapes for the 9835 and 9845. The 9877 was originally used inside of HP for mass producing tapes and was only listed for sale in the HP catalog in 1977. I guess not many were sold because I've only found one other than the one that you have and the two that I have. It belongs to NASA. However their tape has deteriorated too and now their 9877 in unusable. The tape drive is the same as that used in the 9815, 9825, 9835, 9845 and 9831. I did have a description and some pictures of the 9877 on my website However my ISP managed to wipe out my site and I haven't fixed it yet. Joe At 10:31 PM 3/8/01 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone know anything about the HP9877 External Tape Memory unit? I >found one hiding in the back of my workshop while looking for something >to raid a fan from. No, don't worry, the fan is still in the 9877 -- I >found an old and dead PC power supply at the same time. > >Anyway, getting back to the unit in question. It's a standard HP case -- >the type that could be fitted with brackets and put in a 19" rack. On the >front is the standard power switch and LED, and cutouts for up to 4 tape >drives. Mine has only one drive fitted, though. > >On the back is a mains connector, voltage selector switches, a fan, and a >50 pin amphenol connector. The latter is obviously to link it to some >kind of host computer. > >Inside are 4 main sections : > >1) The tape drive. This identical to the one in an HP9815 calculator, >although it has a different mounting bracket. The tape drive PCB (sensor >amplifiers, read preamp, write switch) even has a 09815- part number > >2) The controller. It looks like this will only link to one drive -- >there's space for another 3 of them in the case as well. It's a large >board full of TTL and analogue parts (the latter for the read amplifier >chain and motor control, I guess) > >3) The interface. A small PCB with about 6 TTL chips on it. It has 4 >ribbon cables to link to the controller boards and a card edge to take >the cable from the rear-panel connector. > >4) THe PSU. A standard-ish HP transformer and a PCB containing the sort >of regulator circuitry you'd expect to find in a 9815 or 9825. In fact >the PSU PCB has a 09825- part number, and is presumably the same as the >one in a 9825. > >From a quick look at the boards, it appears that the interface is very low >level (I don't think it even attempts to turn the bitstream from the tape >head into bytes, let alone into data blocks). It also appears that there's >an 8 bit bidirectional bus and some control lines on the host connetor. > >My first question is : What is this used with, and what interface is used >(I don't think, for example, that it uses a standard 98032 parallel >interface, even if it is used with the 9825). > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 23:23:00 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: <00b701c0a82d$0c5b5240$8b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010309002300.3cafa37a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:03 PM 3/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >From: Chad Fernandez >> >>They probably don't use disks. I know that older jets, like the F4 >>Phantom... not sure about newer ones, used core memory. > > >The A6 intruders during the Veitnam era were serial based on >a fixed disk. It was part of the nav and targeting system and >not fly by wire. > >Allison I recently had a memory unit for an EA-6. It used core memory. It was SN 001 and the ICs dated from 1966 if I remember right. Of course, there was probably more than memory in the EA-6. I sold the unit but I can dig out the description and pictures if anyone's interested. I've got a Lantirn targeting computer right now but I haven't opened it up yet to see what's inside. I've also got a largeish aircraft navigation computer but I don't know what it came out of and I haven't opened it up yet either. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 8 23:43:27 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Need IBM XT/286 Setup disk In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010308104339.251faea0@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20010303005140.LSGT2129.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010309004327.3b474f08@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:05 PM 3/8/01 -0800, Mike wrote: >> After I got the XT/286 CMOS setup I tried to read the hard drive but it >>turns out that the drive is bad. RATS! I was hoping to find software for >>the STAG EPROM programmers still on it. That's the only reason that I > >What does "bad" mean? If it has something you want on it, maybe swapping >some parts with another drive might fix it long enough to get the data off. >That or some other "brute force" technique. I considered that but I decided that that was too much trouble. Actually I'm reconsidering that too. I suppose I might go pull it out of the trash before the trash people get it in the morning. I don't know what's wrong with the drive. It's spinning but it reports "Drive not ready" on every test. This hasn't been my week for hard drives. I've spend over two days trying to figure out why I keep getting errors when I try to Prep (Low level format and partion) a hard drive in my Z-100. I've tried three drives incluing a known working one from an XT-286 and they all report "Bad Sectors on Track 0" and then fail to initialize. The drives pass the media test so they should be physically OK. Joe > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 9 00:00:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: HP9877 External Tape Memory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010309010059.353764f8@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:31 PM 3/8/01 +0000, you wrote: >Does anyone know anything about the HP9877 External Tape Memory unit? I > My website is still MIA but I uploaded some info and pictures about the 9877. They're at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/". Lousy pictures! I need to re-take them. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Mar 8 23:05:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: DEC KS-10 Emulator Now Available In-Reply-To: <200103090438.XAA25003@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Mar 08, 2001 11:38:50 PM Message-ID: <200103090505.VAA26830@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've checked the area on sourceforge and no files are showing up... > > where are they? > > Megan You'll need to go here: http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=20745 and then follow the directions for retrieving them via cvs. Unfortunatly there isn't anything as friendly as a tarball. I think I've finally got TOPS-10 v7.03 installed, now if I can just figure out the incantations to get SMFILE to write the bootblocks to disk, so that I can boot from disk instead of tape! Zane From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Mar 8 23:15:59 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp References: <3AA852CE.79D35580@spitfire.net> Message-ID: <027e01c0a858$075e68b0$1ec7fec7@pcat> > I have a nearly new Pied Piper - may be in original box. > 1.2Mbyte FDD. > It has been a long time since I have seen it in the warehouse (we > retired from the computer business after over 20 years - started in > 1977) Does it have the serial port module installed? I'd be interested if it does - I still have a bunch of disks from the one I used to have. g. From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Mar 8 23:27:30 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308212028.00b923e0@pacbell.net> Ah, ah, ah! You bastard! :-) I traded a restored & working Sol 20 plus a working OSI C1P with decent docs to get a Sorcerer with limited docs. I traded with David Williams from the classiccmp list. I think he got the better end of the deal, but I was desperate to get one. David has some really good docs on-line, but you probably already have these: http://www.trailingedge.com/exidy/ Here's the only place on-line that I've seen has Sorcerer software. He has some MP3 files you can play into the cassette port. http://www.lisp.com.au/~michael/exidy/ Also, here's a picture of a Sorcerer with the official S-100 expansion box plus official Exidy disk drives: http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/Exidy_fs.html Do you know if you have the original, or the Sorcerer II? At 02:22 PM 3/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >And once again I'm reminded that 'the machines are out there...' >(just when I was starting to wonder) > >I get this phone call, and shortly thereafter am the proud possessor of an >Exidy Sourcerer complete with the original documentation, (including the >tech ref - schematics!) monitor, cables, box of tapes, and various third >party books and such! (Dilithium Press - now *that* brings back >memories!) > >And oh yes, BASIC in the infamous (slightly modified) 8-Track Tape >cartridge! Recycling at its most unusual! (odd, peculiar, etc...) > >Just too much fun! Now, who has some *really* cool games for the thing??? > >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > >Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original >'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Mar 8 23:39:38 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums References: <200103070916.CAA08294@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: <00ca01c0a85b$56525320$e615f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > On 2001-03-06 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: > > >>What would you suggest is the foremost reason for > >>"seeing" them? > > >Well in my case, I find them pleasing to look at. I > >like seeing, and being able to touch, systems that I > >have heard about or know about, butI do not own. > > That sounds very much like an individual seeking out > autographs in person from celebrities. I don't sense > anything particularly educational about that type of > experience with computers. > Wow, I guess I'm just way to shallow for this list. I apologize for wanting to engage in uneducational activities. Alert to Sellam: No exhibit floor at next year's VCF, it merely appeals to our basest instincts. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 9 00:29:35 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <00ca01c0a85b$56525320$e615f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at "Mar 8, 1 09:39:38 pm" Message-ID: <200103090629.WAA08452@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > That sounds very much like an individual seeking out > > autographs in person from celebrities. I don't sense > > anything particularly educational about that type of > > experience with computers. > Wow, I guess I'm just way to shallow for this list. I > apologize for wanting to engage in uneducational > activities. Alert to Sellam: No exhibit floor at next > year's VCF, it merely appeals to our basest instincts. Yeah, I agree. What could be possibly educational about seeing an Eastern Bloc computer, or the Lorraine prototype, or just about every Atari ever made? Not to mention the Tomy Tutor, whose exhibitor should be shot for such a useless exhibit that fails to enhance people's awareness of classic computers. Pure intellectual drivel with no redeeming interest value and it should be stopped immediately. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- No good deed goes unpunished. -- Clare Boothe Luce ------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 8 16:27:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308075001.02b9d370@pc> Message-ID: <1071.467T900T14074217optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 08:26 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >>>If MS would just give us the source code, we could fix it for them. >I've often thought about what the rag-tag open source >community would do if they had the Windows source - the >whole kit and caboodle. I'd guess that the entire Microsoft >source base (counting apps, developer tools, in-house >tools, and all the DDK (device driver) tools, etc.) are >close to two orders of magnitude more code and data than >the average four-CD Linux distro. Frankly, I don't think >they could handle it. Does the open source community >have the same number of full-time man-hours available >to a new task of this size? What about writers and >managers, not just counting programers? Look at Mozilla. Ooh, isn't that a remarkable feat of development? Now apply that to a project which is equivalent to Mozilla squared. Open source is great for making difficult operating systems, but I've yet to see something open source and easy-to-use. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 8 16:20:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1041.467T2300T14005497optimus@canit.se> Billy D'Augustine skrev: >I picked up a Mac SE30 that someone was chucking. It has no keyboard or >mouse, but powers up and goes into MacOS. I'd like to find a keyboard and >mouse for this. Any ADB (Apple Desktop Bus) keyboard and mouse will do. >Also, when it booted, it seems to have some sort of password protection on >it. A small dialogue box came up that said "Please enter password for >Macinto". I don't know if the utility was called "Macinto", but it looks >like perhaps the title bar wasn't big enough to fully display "Macintosh". Sounds like the name of the computer. >At the very least, I'd like to be able to run OpenBSD on it... So would I, once I find a network card for mine. I have half a MacCon IIsi/30, but I lack the daughter card with the connectors. It's really a pretty little machine. Not the fastest BSD box in existence, but cute. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 8 17:02:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <509.468T1900T26041optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Steve Robertson wrote: >> >And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! >> >> Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working >> independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. >Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? >Hey, Steve, ever heard of Linux? Ooh, now isn't that a perfect example of a well-structured, coordinated operating system? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. From jimdavis at gorge.net Fri Mar 9 02:52:17 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: New find, Symbolics XL400, Help! References: <3.0.1.16.20010309002300.3cafa37a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3AA899C1.696F3FFA@gorge.net> Hi, A quick run over to wacky willys ( aloha ) at lunch today made me the owner of a Symbolics XL400, 780 Mb maxtor, tape and univision 1024X768X24 frame buffer with a mono console and keyboard. No mouse or cables. retired by intel in 97. After checking it out, I applied power. Voltages seem ok, but I noticed that the fans are not turning. I noticed a temp sensor on the forward power supply, so I assume that the fans will come up with tempeture. Anyway, my problem is the lack of cabling from the box to the console monitor. Does anyone have any pinouts, specs or schematics on this thing so I could fabricate some cables? When I powered it up, the fault light clears on the back and I hear a small amount a disk activity. pressing the ???reset/boot??? button on the front panel illuminates the light, small disk activity then the light goes out. Can this thing be booted from a serial console, or is KVM required to boot. Anybody in the Portland area playing with these things? Thanks, Jim Davis. From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 03:17:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <610.468T650T6174171optimus@canit.se> liste skrev: >On 09-Mar-2001 nemo@net.house.cx wrote: >> Oh, and the ducted air channels inside. wheee! >I'm guessing a model 90. Does it have a LCD panel? The I can't see any ducts inside my 90s. The one with the LCD panel would be the model 95, one of the most impressive PCs I've ever seen. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! Are they now created with a random word generator? What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? What is "Interdev"? Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? Grumpy Ol' Fred From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 03:20:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA83C75.5820AB3F@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1012.468T2100T6206205optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >Guys, Why don't you see if you can find a Reply Powerboard? Thats what >I have in mine. It is a 486 class replacement Planer (motherboard in >IBM). I am running a Kingston Turbochip in it, with the dumb little fan >removed, and a heatsink glued on. It also has 32 bit Microchannel >slots, no just 16s. Does the 80 have 32s from the factory? I know the >60 didn't. The model 80 has got MCA32 slots. >These boards are on Ebay once ina while, although usually already in an >80 :-) According to the PS/2 FAQ, they may be bought from http://www.neointeractive.com/. The prices don't seem all that prohibitive, either. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. You can pay off the cops so they won't visit your neighborhood,convince girls that work for other pimps to work for you,etc. When you're in a bind,you can consult Mega-Pimp. Mega-Pimp is the soul of a long dead pimp that resides in the gold medallion you wear around your neck. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 03:13:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA7DB32.12767.777DD5@localhost> Message-ID: <1107.468T50T6133511optimus@canit.se> Lawrence Walker skrev: > Oops again. I'm embarassed. Never take it for granted that you >know your own equipment. After numerous years of banging my >knee on my PS/2 8580, Chad's msg. piqued me enough to actually >take off the side (and clean it at the same time). Sure enough it is >some sort of composite material, altho it must be close to the >weight of sheet metal. Ditto for the 8560. And of course the PCjr. > Betrayed by IBM ;^ ( . And My spare 80 even has a crack in it's >side panel to prove it. Treachorous corporations !! Take that. Ouch. >The damn handle is indeed steel. At least my 8570 is real metal, covered only by a thin layer of paint and a thick one of dirt. I won't deliberately scratch my models 9590 or 9556 to find out their composition, though. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Ecco a voi la sigla di Lupin III in francese... ma... aspettate... qualcosa non quadra...cos'e' questa roba! Holly e Benji? ahahah... povero cantante... gli hanno messo sotto la base sbagliata!!! Tacchan undrar varf?r Captain Tsubasa p? franska har samma ackompanjemang som Lupin III p? italienska From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 03:14:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <20010309114327.A4856@net.house.cx> Message-ID: <712.468T2550T6146479optimus@canit.se> nemo skrev: >Any idea what the composite material *is* ? >While some may consider it sacrelige, I'd love to build up a modern >PC inside that case, but I'd need to do some case mods first... :/ >Before you all wince, don't worry. I'm all talk. By the time I'll have >the money and time to do this, I wont have the interest ;) I wouldn't really mind, myself. After all, the planar and PSU could be donated to needy PS/2 users, and PS/2s are thirteen on the dozen, it's not like that Stride 460 which somebody had retooled into a PC case. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Anv?nd g?rna mitt staket, fast du beh?ver nog fr?scha upp det lite. Lupin III, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Mar 9 05:41:09 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17632A@exch002.softwright.co.uk> >>Don't get me wrong, I hate Microsoft as much as anyone else, but fair dues >>to them for trying to bring computers to the masses. In my opinion they're >>going about it in totally the wrong way though; don't throw together a lot >>of buggy, bloated software the looks nice and on the surface is easy to use >>- instead build a robust, logical product and provide good documentation on >>how to use it. Expect your users to have to actually *learn* something in >>order to harness its potential. > >Why does everyone spread this blatant lie? Microsoft have never done anything >to make computers easier! They were among the last to provide a functioning >GUI! > What have MS ever done to make computers easier? Mimic Apple et al? When you put it like that, yes, I suppose. They just have better marketing tactics (note I'm not saying I *like* those tactics!) >Following a general trend has never been my definition of actively working or >contributing towards a goal. Ahh, it's an embraced and extended following though ;-) Thing is, for the average person who is new to computers (and maybe a little wary of them) and doesn't want to actually learn anything about the tools they're using, give them a bad system - like Windows - and a good one, like Linux say, and they're going to get along easier with the windows box and achieve their goal (whatever it may be) sooner. They won't necessarily have the best solution (likely won't in fact) but they will have something that satisfies them to the extent of their knowledge - which for most people is good enough it seems. Microsoft didn't have the vision or the initiative, no, but sadly they're the company who is dominant in the current market. I really do hope that changes (not least because I really don't get along with the idea of one faceless entity controlling everything - don't even get me started on the UK and Europe! :-P cheers Jules From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 04:40:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive Message-ID: <719.468T1800T7005757optimus@canit.se> Since I've got myself a pretty little EPROM burner, and seem to have a lot of ROMs and ROM sockets around, I thought that it should be worthwhile to create a central repository for all those ROMs which are so difficult to get nowadays. Is this a good idea, or has somebody already done it? I don't care much about copyrights, though I wouldn't want to go against the wishes of the actual owners of the software contained. Any thoughts? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 06:43:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17632A@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <1871.468T2400T8235845optimus@canit.se> Julian Richardson skrev: > > What have MS ever done to make computers easier? Mimic Apple et >al? >When you put it like that, yes, I suppose. They just have better marketing >tactics (note I'm not saying I *like* those tactics!) That isn't making computers easier, that's doing whatever Apple does. It's like saying that Mitsubishi have made cars safer simply because they have learned some tricks from Volvo. Copycats don't deserve credit for what they do. > >Following a general trend has never been my definition of actively >working or > >contributing towards a goal. >Ahh, it's an embraced and extended following though ;-) In what way? >Thing is, for the average person who is new to computers (and maybe a little >wary of them) and doesn't want to actually learn anything about the tools >they're using, give them a bad system - like Windows - and a good one, like >Linux say, and they're going to get along easier with the windows box and >achieve their goal (whatever it may be) sooner. They won't necessarily have >the best solution (likely won't in fact) but they will have something that >satisfies them to the extent of their knowledge - which for most people is >good enough it seems. Linux isn't a good system, particularly not for the unexperienced user. >Microsoft didn't have the vision or the initiative, no, but sadly they're >the company who is dominant in the current market. I really do hope that >changes (not least because I really don't get along with the idea of one >faceless entity controlling everything - don't even get me started on the UK >and Europe! :-P What about the UK and Europe? Is it something about Acorn computers? And why is everyone so afraid of giving the newbie a Mac? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Schont die Sockel, wenn ihr die Denkm?ler st?rzt. Sie k?nnten noch gebraucht werden. --- Stanislaw Jerzy Lec From jss at ou.edu Fri Mar 9 07:55:42 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Manuals on eBay? Message-ID: <984146142.3aa8e0de5af65@email.ou.edu> Before I bid on some of these PDP-11 manuals on eBay, I thought it would be prudent to inquire about them here. These ones that have initial bids of $15, $19, or more -- is that a good price, or would I be getting ripped off? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 9 08:10:09 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Rescue / Sale in AZ: PET, Tandy, Apple, PC Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010309075826.00ace4a0@pc> This is somewhere in the Phoenix/Tucson/Flagstaff area. :-) - John ----------------- Here is a fairly complete list of the old computer stuff that we have which is available to the highest bid. We are a non-profit 501 (c)(3) educational institution, we have just obtained a old elementary school which was being used by the school district to store old things from every school, so there is a large variety of things. We don’t know their condition exactly, or whether they work. Sold in “as is” condition and you pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it out to whom ever would love it. **If you are in the USA your contribution would be tax-deductible! If you have questions or comments call us at: (520) 432-4200 or e-mail fnweird@earthlink.net . Thankx! Carmen & Bob Bryant APPLE : Apple IIc - (no Monitors; a white box with key board) [seven units] Apple 51/4 external Floppy drives Model “Disk II” [eight units] Apple (small) keybords [five] Apple Unidisk [one] Apple Numeric Key Pad IIe [one] CompuAdd Computer [one] Apple Monitor III [five] Apple II Plus (no monitor) [one] Apple Monitors [four] Apple Graphics tablets large 16" x 16" Model A2M0029 [three] COMMODORE Comm. PET Model 4016 [one] Comm. Single Floppy (5 1/4) Drive Model 1541 [two] Comm. 4023 Printers [eleven] Comm. 4022 Printer [two] Comm. (5 1/4) floppy Extern. Drive Model 2031LP [five] Comm. Super PET SP9000 (with monitor attached) [seven] Comm PET Model 4032 (with monitor) [five] Comm. CBM Model 8032 [two] Comm. CBM Dual Floppy Model 8050 [two] Comm. Dual Drive Floppy [one] Comm. Single Drive Floppy (5 1/4) Model 2031 [one] Comm. 64 Keyboard [four] Comm. Cassette Plug-in “Datasette” [three] Comm. Cassette “C2N” [one] Comm. Tractor Printer Model 4022 [one[ Other : Panasonic Printers KX-P1080i And KX - P1091 [one of each] IBM Transcriber Model 172 [four] Ventel Model 1200-1 [three] Sanyo Memo Scriber (with cassette built in) [four] Monitors: IBM Mon. Model 8513001 [one] Leading Edge Mon. Model DR-1240 [three] also Leading Edge Keyboard [one] CTX Color Monitor 14" Model CVP5468A [one] Amdek Video-300 Mon. [one] Citizen Mon. [one] Zenith Data Systems Mon. Model ZVM 121 [one] other keyboards: Zenith Data Systems [four] Wyse Key. [one] unknown brands [three] RADIO SHACK TRS-80 Model III 48 K RAM (Monitor built in, with cassettee hook up in back) [seven] TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer 64 K (monitor built in and cassette plug in) [seven] ** some of these have built in smoky glass filter attached to front TRS-80 64K Keyboard [ten] “ ” “ Mini Disk Drive [one] TRS-80 DMP 200 Printer [one] “ ” Video Display (1979) [one] “ ” DWP-210 Daisy Wheel Printer [one] Tandy 1000sx (Dual floppy, no mon.) [six] “ ” Not working/parts gone [two] Tandy 64 K Color Monitor [one] Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP 430 [one] Tandy Monitor VM-4 [one] Tandy 190 Keyboard [one] Other: Heyer Model 93 Thermal Processor [one] “Espirit” Computer by Hazeltine (PET look-alike) [one] Viasyn Dual 5 1/4 Disk Drive [one] BMC - 800 Model 20 (with monitor on stand) [two] Epson computer Model Equality I+ (has single floppy ) with keyboard [one] Viasyn Computer from Hayward CA. CompuPro System 8/16 Serial#068899 [one] Racal-Milgo / OMXIMODE 96 [one] IBM Type 4869 (made in Japan) 5 1/4 Floppy Drive [one] Data Frame 20/Super Mac Technology (120v,60 Hz) box with switch, male three prong plug; and two ports [one] Power supply [one] Texas Instruments Business System 300 Monitor [one] 3M Thermo Fax “The Secretary” Copier/Transper. Maker [two] American Seating Masterboard for audio controls on large table w/two tapes/reels [one] NCR Model 399 Console [one] Zenthen & Aagaard (Copenhagen Denmark) Abdick 588 Stencil Maker IBM Model 4226-320 Printer [one] IBM 4226 Printer Ribbons [one] ALSO- Old DITTO and Mimeograph Machines and parts including paste ink pads [ten] Type writers - Royal [newer X one; very old X five] IBM Personal Wheelwriter2 [two] IBM Quietwriter III Printer 5202 [one] BMC electric [two] IBM Selectric III [two] Maxwell Pro/Indust. Videocassette U-Matic Still Frame Reproduction [twelve] Texas Instruments Computer (large & Heavy ) Serial # 0550001424 [one] Wollensak triple tape cassette duplicator Model 2772 [one] Sony U-matic Model VO-2600 [one] Tandy 1000 Personal Computer Keyboard [seven] BOOKS IBM Personal Computer Hardware Reference Library 3.0 BASIC (Hard bound ringed binder in fiberboard case, wrapped, like new [twelve] IBM Personal Computer Guide To Operations with floppy [twelve] Tandy 1000sx Manual excellent condition [one] Apple IIc “A Touch of Applesoft Basic” [five] Apple “Getting Started With Your Apple II GS [fifteen] Apple Color RGB Monitor Owners Manual (IIgs) [eight] Apple 3.5 Drive Owner Guide [three] Apple II GS Owner Reference [eight] Appel Image Writer II Owner Manual [one] Apple II GS System Drive Users Guide [one] Apple II GS Owner Manual(in wrapper) From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 9 07:51:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <01Mar9.095851est.119066@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >And why is everyone so afraid of giving the newbie a Mac? The problem with the Mac is the perceived lack of support for them, whether in places to purchase software/hardware or to which to take one if it breaks for repair. What does the newbie see in television and print ads? Intel, Gateway, Dell. Regardless of the merits of alternatives to these, the first thing a newbie is going to do is ask for that Pentium 4 processor that they see all the advertisements for. Apple has some cool ads being aired, but they aren't being shown enough. The newbie won't think much about a Mac because they haven't seen the ads, haven't seen them in the stores, haven't seen the magazines from which to get information. In thier mind, they won't consider themn because they see them as not being accessible enough. It certainly hasn't helped that Apple lost it's foothold in the education market. Apple needs to get thier ads out in peoples faces for a start and then work on getting them sold in places other than CompUSA and a handful of hardcore Apple dealers. It's basically the same problem that the Amiga had most of it's exisitence. Jeff From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 9 09:12:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OT: HP Pavillion PC CDROM drive References: <01Mar9.095851est.119066@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <002901c0a8ab$53887660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I snagged a more or less complete HP Pavillion 7270 (about a 4-year-old machine) at the local thrift store yesterday and find the CDROM has an annoying habit of opening whenever I try to close it. It's a fairly standard Mitsumi (?) CDROM, but has a special curved front on the drawer made to fit the case. Has anybody got suggestions on where one might (cheaply) replace such an item? Dick From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 9 10:28:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <01Mar9.095851est.119066@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 9, 1 08:51:39 am" Message-ID: <200103091628.IAA11136@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >And why is everyone so afraid of giving the newbie a Mac? > > The problem with the Mac is the perceived lack of support for them, > whether in places to purchase software/hardware or to which to take one if > it breaks for repair. What does the newbie see in television and print ads? My sister sees the cheap price, nice looks and uses one at school. So she's trading in her beat-up P75 for an iMac DV. The death of Apple is greatly exaggerated. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Line printer paper is strongest at its perforations. ----------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 9 11:34:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <01Mar9.123952est.119087@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >My sister sees the cheap price, nice looks and uses one at school. So >she's trading in her beat-up P75 for an iMac DV. > >The death of Apple is greatly exaggerated. Suits me fine since my main machines, both at home and work, are Mac's. For home users, they are basically the only alternative to the Intel/Windows group and it'd be a dark day if that last option was to disappear. Regardless of the industry, alternatives and options are a good thing. Jeff From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Mar 9 12:19:02 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: <719.468T1800T7005757optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 9, 2001 11:40:36 am" Message-ID: <200103091819.KAA05544@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Since I've got myself a pretty little EPROM burner, and seem to have a lot of > ROMs and ROM sockets around, I thought that it should be worthwhile to create > a central repository for all those ROMs which are so difficult to get > nowadays. Is this a good idea, or has somebody already done it? I don't care > much about copyrights, though I wouldn't want to go against the wishes of the > actual owners of the software contained. Any thoughts? Excellent idea. I was worried about what would happen if I lost the ROMS in some of my less common machines. I bought a programmer for the purpose of backing them up. Therefore, I have some ROM images to contribute to such an archive... Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 9 12:31:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: HP9877 External Tape Memory In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010309001413.3caf4d5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 9, 1 00:14:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010309/ca7ad909/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 9 15:58:19 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) References: <1012.468T2100T6206205optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3AA951FB.47AA1981@internet1.net> Thats out of date. Neointeractive didn't even have the drivers up anymore last I checked. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Iggy Drougge wrote: > According to the PS/2 FAQ, they may be bought from > http://www.neointeractive.com/. The prices don't seem all that prohibitive, > either. From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 9 11:44:19 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OT: HP Pavillion PC CDROM drive In-Reply-To: <002901c0a8ab$53887660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010309224442.TAAI21945.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: OT: HP Pavillion PC CDROM drive > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:12:15 -0700 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I snagged a more or less complete HP Pavillion 7270 (about a 4-year-old machine) > at the local thrift store yesterday and find the CDROM has an annoying habit of > opening whenever I try to close it. It's a fairly standard Mitsumi (?) CDROM, > but has a special curved front on the drawer made to fit the case. >From my years of repairing all types of cdrom drives, I can say that mitsumi drives are always one of a kind parts-wise even on same speeds. And they aren't known for reliablity. Toss that drive and pop your favorite cdrom in there. I know that will mess up the looks but this is only option. But nice score if the cost is dirt-cheap and complete especially w/ cds for that HP machine. Some of them has Asus-made motherboard for HP machines. Cheers, Wizard From ss at allegro.com Fri Mar 9 17:02:45 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: interesting Amiga article with pic from VCF In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010308163612.00942730@ubanproductions.com> References: <"v04020a00b6cd69b71bc3(a)(091)192.168.1.5(093)*"@MHS> Message-ID: <3AA8F095.9758.251499@localhost> Re: > For those who are interested, the latest issue (March) of IEEE Spectrum > has an article "Amiga: The Computer That Wouldn't Die", complete with > a picture from the Vintage Computer Fair... http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/mar01/amig.html Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From vcf at siconic.com Fri Mar 9 15:58:13 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 system needs new home Message-ID: Please reply to original sender. Reply-to: BVallone@APTEGRITY.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:11:51 -0500 From: "Vallone, Brett" Subject: commodore 64 donation Hi. I have a Commodore 64 set-up (ps, manuals, monitor, 1541 drive, Epson printer, programming manual) in fine working condition that I have no use for, and it would be sacrilegious to just throw it away. I am trying desperately to avoid that. Thanks. Brett Vallone Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 9 18:01:11 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "RFC: ROM dump archive" (Mar 9, 11:40) References: <719.468T1800T7005757optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10103100001.ZM26048@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 9, 11:40, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Since I've got myself a pretty little EPROM burner, and seem to have a lot of > ROMs and ROM sockets around, I thought that it should be worthwhile to create > a central repository for all those ROMs which are so difficult to get > nowadays. Is this a good idea, or has somebody already done it? I agree, it's a very good idea, so good in fact, that it's been done :-) http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/Roms/ Which reminds me that I promised Steve to send my collection. There's also a site for Acorn/BBC Micro/Archimedes ROMs at http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/rom/ and there's one for Commodore ROMs though I've misplaced the URL, and some Exidy Sorcerer images at http://www.trailingedge.com/exidy/ I started collecting ROM images about 15 years ago, when additional "sideways ROM" software for BBC Micros was in vogue. For those who don't know, that machine had sockets for four ROMs, typically filing systems (disk, net, teletext, etc), languages (BASIC, Pascal, Forth, ...), or utilities/applications (terminal emulators by the dozen, word processors, spreadsheets, ...) which shared the same address space and were mapped in and out by the O.S. Actually, the O.S. supported 16 sideways ROMs but you needed extra hardware to fit that many. Anyway, at that time I repaired lots of BBC machines, and a common(ish) problem was that people swapped ROMs around when they had more ROMs than sockets, and inevitably broke a pin or plugged one in backewards from time to time. Since in most cases the only official way to replace one was to pay the full price for the software, I (and others) made a habit of copying any ROMs we came across, in order to be able to blow replacement EPROMs for a more cost-effective repair later. I must have megabytes of the stuff here. I kept this up when I started collecting other machines, and I have quite a number of DEC ROM images (a very few of which are at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/) and some Exidy Sorcerer ones, along with Apple, PET, Sirius, etc images. Even a couple from car engine management systems! Sadly I didn't copy my original Exidy WP or DevPac ROMs (anybody able to give me a copy?) and I've not always had the right equipment to read some TTL PROMs, so my collection of images isn't complete even with respect to the machines I own. I also think it's worthwhile keeping images (or JEDEC files) for PALs where possible, but I don't have a PAL programmer of my own so I've not got round to doing that. If anyone needs a ROM image to make a repair, and they think I might have it, I'm happy to provide it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 9 18:17:12 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Great new finds for the musuem Message-ID: <012d01c0a8f7$757404a0$34721fd1@default> The last couple weeks have been a little slim but I got the following items: A Mac IIvi (needs work damaged in shipping) been looking for one of these for a long time. A Mac Plus with lots of extras donated by a nice older lady. Has a trackball called Quad LYNX by Honeywell, a pretty odd looking item. A fan unit called 'cool-it' also odd looking. And several other items, books, software and mics came with it. A Mac TAM, I know not 10 years yet but I'm looking for a couple items to make it a complete unit. Does anyone have a original CD case and TV Antenna that came with it ? I'm also looking for the original boxes that the TAM and it's parts came in, this seller had tossed them long ago. Mac Performa 476 needs some work. A U.K. Sinclair Microvision battery charger. A Commodore model 1802 monitor. Apple IIe joystick. Several unique mousepads and coffee cups. Radio Electronics MAR 1986 issue with a really good article on personal robots and robotics. They compare 20 different robots, all the HERO models, Maxx Steele, XR, Scorpion, and others. I also picked up 9 other issues at 25 cents each. Something called a HEARSAY 100 no other information written on the item. Anyone know something about it ?. Lots of Sega 16-Bit cartridges at 60 cents each. Some IBM AIX 4.3 cd's for $2.80 each. Hero 2000 disk manual. AMDEK Color-I monitor works great. A digital DECmate model VT278-AH and the rolling ROX02 8" drive unit, cables and manuals. I will stop as the list is too long and alot the items do not meet the 10 year rule. Keep on computing John Keys From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 9 18:17:15 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "RFC: ROM dump archive" (Mar 9, 11:40) References: <719.468T1800T7005757optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10103100017.ZM26080@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Yes, bad practice to follow-up your own posts, but I should have mentioned that Craig Dewick keeps an archive of Sun boot ROMs at http://lios.apana.org.au/~cdewick/data/bootroms.html which has saved my skin at least once. And on the subject of permissions, I know that several companies have consented to letting the BBC site provide images of software that hasn't been available for retail sale or as official spares for years, and only one or two have ever objected. One of the Sun sites that holds images had a note saying the owner had never got permission, but if anyone from Sun objected he'd remove them (a site for Motorola stuff had a similar notice) but the notice has gone so presumably no-one ever did. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 9 18:09:09 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: <004c01c0a8f8$1388c4a0$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Joe >> >>The A6 intruders during the Veitnam era were serial based on >>a fixed disk. It was part of the nav and targeting system and >>not fly by wire. >> >>Allison > > I recently had a memory unit for an EA-6. It used core memory. It was >SN 001 and the ICs dated from 1966 if I remember right. Of course, there >was probably more than memory in the EA-6. I sold the unit but I can dig >out the description and pictures if anyone's interested. EA-6 is later and used updated hardware. > I've got a Lantirn targeting computer right now but I haven't opened it >up yet to see what's inside. I've also got a largeish aircraft navigation >computer but I don't know what it came out of and I haven't opened it up >yet either. Interesting, some were generally known machines majorly repackaged or standard hardware special boxes. Allison From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Mar 9 18:05:40 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights Posters (fwd) Message-ID: FYI ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:55:21 -0600 From: James Thornton To: doug@blinkenlights.com Subject: Blinkenlights Posters Your organization might find interesting this 24x36 inch blinkenlights poster: http://jamesthornton.com/blinkenlights.html James Thornton __________________________________________________________ MIT Web Curriculum Free Online (NexusWatch, October 2000) --> http://www.jamesthornton.com/nexuswatch/20001018.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 9 18:32:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Great new finds for the musuem In-Reply-To: <012d01c0a8f7$757404a0$34721fd1@default> References: <012d01c0a8f7$757404a0$34721fd1@default> Message-ID: >The last couple weeks have been a little slim but I got the following >items: > >A Mac TAM, I know not 10 years yet but I'm looking for a couple items to >make it a complete unit. Does anyone have a original CD case and TV >Antenna that came with it ? I'm also looking for the original boxes >that the TAM and it's parts came in, this seller had tossed them long >ago. > >A digital DECmate model VT278-AH and the rolling ROX02 8" drive unit, >cables and manuals. > Good job aquiring both a TAM and VT278. Good thing the DEC came with the drive unit and such! I have a DECmate II myself. As for the TAM, it's just outright cool and actually has a bit of an upgrade path still. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From claudew at videotron.ca Fri Mar 9 19:00:18 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Old complete terminal in a keyboard found...Synertek System Corp KTM-3..odd? Message-ID: <3AA97CA2.FDBAD4D2@videotron.ca> Hi Well for me too things have been pretty slow my collection is growing and it is now tougher and tougher to find new stuff... I found an older terminal in a keyboard from a company called: KTM-3/80 from Synertek Systems Corporation Production date : 3/24/81 Looks like a self-contained terminal in a keyboard with a composite video out (or rf?). Very odd looking for me and I dont recall seeing a lot of these things way back. I have not tested it yet but if anybody is interested, Ill take a picture and post the link here. The thing has a flat cable with a db25 sticking out from it. Its just slightly thicker than an "ordinary" keyboard... On/Off switch, P.S. jack, RCA jack and someone (thanks!) stuck a piece of paper that gives the DIP SW settings for the baud rate etc under the keyboard... Ill check the P.S. requirements and test the thing eventually. If anybody collects terminals, I might be tempted to trade or giveaway this thing...After all original collecting was supposed to be Apple computers only...now includes all micros 197x-198x...I dont wanna start collecting terminals... Oh yes, I am still hunting for these things : Next box, LC575 or Color Classic board (my color classic is missing one), anything micros 197x-198x...Always interested in trades (I dont sell stuff) see my site... Claude -- The Canuck Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 9 18:34:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: OOPs Again was Re: New here :-) In-Reply-To: <3AA951FB.47AA1981@internet1.net> Message-ID: <433.469T2400T946237optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >Thats out of date. Neointeractive didn't even have the drivers up >anymore last I checked. Now that I look, even their site seems to be gone. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. - Lupin! Vart ska du? - Tar v?gen ?ver berget f?ljer gr?nsen s? kommer vi till havet. - Det ?r ju mer ?n 100 km. - Det ?r v?l ingenting. Jag tillh?r v?rldseliten jag. Lupin III den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Mar 9 20:04:48 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Old complete terminal in a keyboard found...Synertek System Corp KTM-3..odd? Message-ID: In a message dated Fri, 9 Mar 2001 8:03:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Claude writes: << Hi Well for me too things have been pretty slow my collection is growing and it is now tougher and tougher to find new stuff... Oh yes, I am still hunting for these things : Next box Claude -- The Canuck Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com >> Claude, I have a friend that has *PILES* of NeXT boxen, their monitors and printers as well. He wishes to sell them very reasonably. The only caveat is he has no cables for them... Anyhow you (or anyone else looking for one) can contact Dave McGuire by email at mcguire@neurotica.com Please do me a favor and tell him that Linc sent ya. BTW, for those of you who like to trade equipment, he likes older DEC equipment. -Linc. P.S. If any of you have any NeXT cables, please let me know - I am looking for a mono cable (DB15?) and can't find any anywhere! From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 9 18:55:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Us vs. Museums In-Reply-To: <00ca01c0a85b$56525320$e615f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > >Well in my case, I find them pleasing to look at. I > > >like seeing, and being able to touch, systems that I > > >have heard about or know about, butI do not own. > > > > That sounds very much like an individual seeking out > > autographs in person from celebrities. I don't sense > > anything particularly educational about that type of > > experience with computers. > > > Wow, I guess I'm just way to shallow for this list. I > apologize for wanting to engage in uneducational > activities. Alert to Sellam: No exhibit floor at next > year's VCF, it merely appeals to our basest instincts. Wayne, how dare you come to the VCF year after year and win awards for your extremely well done exhibit harboring this sort of attitude about collecting. You should be ashamed of yourself. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 9 18:57:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <509.468T1900T26041optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 9 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> >And who the hell needs managers to code anyway? Pfah! > >> > >> Oh yeah... That would work out. Hundreds of freelance developers working > >> independently with no coordinated (managed) efforts. > > >Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking? > > >Hey, Steve, ever heard of Linux? > > Ooh, now isn't that a perfect example of a well-structured, coordinated > operating system? Um , yeah. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 9 19:22:47 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: <719.468T1800T7005757optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 9 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Since I've got myself a pretty little EPROM burner, and seem to have a > lot of ROMs and ROM sockets around, I thought that it should be > worthwhile to create a central repository for all those ROMs which are > so difficult to get nowadays. Is this a good idea, or has somebody > already done it? I don't care much about copyrights, though I wouldn't > want to go against the wishes of the actual owners of the software > contained. Any thoughts? This would be a great project. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elvey at hal.com Fri Mar 9 20:51:57 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Old complete terminal in a keyboard found...Synertek System Corp KTM-3..odd? In-Reply-To: <3AA97CA2.FDBAD4D2@videotron.ca> Message-ID: <200103100251.f2A2pwl20497@civic.hal.com> Claude wrote: > Hi > > Well for me too things have been pretty slow my collection is growing > and it is now tougher and tougher to find new stuff... > > I found an older terminal in a keyboard from a company called: > > KTM-3/80 from Synertek Systems Corporation > > Production date : 3/24/81 > > Looks like a self-contained terminal in a keyboard with a composite > video out (or rf?). Very odd looking for me and I dont recall seeing a > lot of these things way back. I have not tested it yet but if anybody is > interested, Ill take a picture and post the link here. Hi Claude Is it fully populated or are there some empty places. It came in two versions. 40 and 80 column. The 40 was missing a number of chips. If it is a real 80 column, I'm looking for one. I already have two 40 column ones. I also have schematics for these on blue print paper. I could make copies for anyone that needed them. Dwight PS It is composite video. You just need the screen to make a full keyboard/monitor. From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 9 19:41:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: Old complete terminal in a keyboard found...Synertek System Corp KTM-3..odd? In-Reply-To: <3AA97CA2.FDBAD4D2@videotron.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Claude wrote: > I found an older terminal in a keyboard from a company called: > > KTM-3/80 from Synertek Systems Corporation > > Production date : 3/24/81 > > Looks like a self-contained terminal in a keyboard with a composite > video out (or rf?). Very odd looking for me and I dont recall seeing a > lot of these things way back. I have not tested it yet but if anybody is > interested, Ill take a picture and post the link here. > > The thing has a flat cable with a db25 sticking out from it. Its just > slightly thicker than an "ordinary" keyboard... It's basically the keyboard and logic for a CRT terminal. You just hook it up to a TV or a compatible video display and you've got yourself a terminal. The DB25 of course goes off to whatever machine you are connecting to. I've got one of these in the box. You could buy it assembled or as a kit. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 9 20:53:28 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:06 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On 9 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> Since I've got myself a pretty little EPROM burner, and seem to have a >> lot of ROMs and ROM sockets around, I thought that it should be >> worthwhile to create a central repository for all those ROMs which are >> so difficult to get nowadays. Is this a good idea, or has somebody >> already done it? I don't care much about copyrights, though I wouldn't >> want to go against the wishes of the actual owners of the software >> contained. Any thoughts? > >This would be a great project. I know that as of a couple of years ago Ward Shrake had archived most of the known ROMs for the various VIC-20 cartridges, including a lot of rare ones. I believe he was also behind a project to do the same with the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game console. The last I heard he had gotten somewhat burned out and was taking a bit of a break from it all. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 9 21:58:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: HP9877 External Tape Memory In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010309001413.3caf4d5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010309225859.26af6c14@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:31 PM 3/9/01 +0000, Tony wrote: >> >> Tony, >> >> You must be forgetfull in your old age :-) We've talked about the 9877 >> before. I have two of them. Both of mine have four drives in them. They > >I remember you mentioned you had (at least) one, but as mine was still >hidden in the depths of my workshop, I don't think I said much about it. > >> were also available in a two and three drive versions. Each drive after the > >The printing on the back panel telling you what fuse to fit refers to OPT >002 and OPT 004, which I would guess are the 2 and 4 drive versions. I >don't see a reference to a 3 drive model, but it certainly could exist. > >> first one was a option so you had to order three options to get four > >Sure. It's obvious I could add extra drives to mine if I had them. Right but I think the original price was something like $900 each! > >> drives. Basicly the 9877 isn't designed as a mass storage unit although it >> can be used that way. Originally it was designed to mass produce tapes at >> HP. You can start the copy and it will copy from one drive to all the other > >That really suprises me, based on the lack of 'smarts' in the unit. > >There ae only 2 'big' chips -- 24 pin ones -- on the controller board. >I've identified them as 74116 latches. There's no processor or memory in >the unit. I suppost it's possible there's the logic to do a bit copy >between tapes -- I will find out when I dig deeper into the unit, I guess. > >> drives in the same box without tying up the calculator or the interface. I >> do know that they used a special version of the standard HP 98032 16 bit >> parallel interface, I was able to find that much out from the guys at NASA > >Interesting and surpising. I suppose you can 'fake' a bidirectional bus >using the open-collector outputs of the 98032, by linking them to the >inputs as well as to the bus. Seems a little odd. HP used the 98032 for a lot of things like that. I know it was used on the 9866 printer (98032 option 66), the 9885 disk drive (option 85), one of the paper tape punches, one of the paper tape readers and a LOT of other peripherals. I've been thinking that I'd like to find out more about the various items that used the 98032 and how the 98032 was configured for each one. I do have schematics for the option 66 version and one or two others. BTW if anyone finds a 98032 interface that says option (anything) or a manual for one of the optional 98032 interfaces please let me know about it. I'd like to add it to my collection to study or at least get the jumpers settings and the like from it. > >> that have one. I think the only thing unique about it was how some of the >> jumpers were set and the connector that mated to the 9877. The guys at NASA > >My guess (without any proof) is that it uses the DMA feature of the >interface. > >If you are _sure_ it's a 98032 interface, then that's a great help. I >have the operating/service manual for that, so it will give me an idea >as to the sort of signals to find on the I/O connector of the 98032. Yes, I'm sure. Somewhere I have a picture of it and you can read the model number on the interface. BTW I'm pretty certain that this one is optioon 77. You'll notice that option number is allways(?) the same as the last two digits of the model number of the device that it attachs to. > >> wouldn't open their interface up and tell me what the settings were. The >> 9877 did not use any of the built-in calculator or interface commands. >> Everything was controlled by software programs that came on a tape. You > >That would seem to be supported by the low-level nature of the interface >(in that iu's not going to look like a standard character device). > >> of the interesting features of the 9877 was that it would copy ANY tape >> file, Binary, Protected, anything! Sort of like a Copy II PC card if you've >> ever used one of them. I'm sure that was because it was designed to be used > >Sure. This, again, comes from the fact that the 9877 just reads/writes a >raw bitstream. It's up to the calculator nd software to turn those bits >into bytes, and then into blocks and files. Exactly. That's why it's able to copy any tape no matter what machine it came from. > >> that I have. It belongs to NASA. However their tape has deteriorated too >> and now their 9877 in unusable. > >Pity :-(. I assume this means the software is totally unavailable. I got >my 9877 from a radio rally (hamfest) and the seller didn't know anything >about it. There was certainly no program tape anywhere near it. I got my two 9877s under similar circumstances. I've spend years trying to find out more about them. I did finally find one short manual. I think it was the installation manual. And I talked to the guys at NASA and they were able to tell me a little bit. Then the ex-HP guy told me about them being used in the factory. So I've pieced together a little background on them but so far I haven't been able to locate a tape. Given how badly the HP tapes deteriorate with age, it's unlikely that I'll ever locate a useable tape for the thing. > >> >> The tape drive is the same as that used in the 9815, 9825, 9835, 9845 >> and 9831. > >I've not dug out my 9825 (or 9831) yet, but I can confirm the drive is >_identical_ (including the PCB) to that in a 9815. Do you have a 9831? That's a RARE bird! I have one but it's the only one that I know of. It was another item that was only listed for one year in the HP catalog. It has an interesting background. It was a temporary replacement for the HP 9830 (both ran BASIC). But the following year HP released the 9835 and 9845 so they dropped the 9831. HP says that there was a big demand for a replacement for the 9830 and that was why they developed the 9831 but if that's true then I would expect to find more 9831s around. As I mentioned above, the 9831 was a replacement for the 9830. However it not only did everything the 9830 did but it also had ALL of the 9830 option ROMs built in! But one of the most interesting things about the 9831 is that it's actually a 9825 with different ROMs! That's right you can pull out the OS ROMs in an early 9825 and slide in the 9831 ROMs and the machine is now a 9831! The ex-HP guy told me that many of the HP engineers used to keep a set of both ROMs and would change them at will. Tape drives: Yes those are a standard design tape drive that HP used in lots of stuff. I once worked on a spectrum analyzer and it had the identical drives in it. I believe there are only two basic tape drives used in HP equipment (other than the micro cassettes). This design and the earlier ones that were driven via the capstan. The capstan type were used in the 9865 Tape Cassette, the 9821 and 9830 calculators and some of the other early equipment. Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Mar 9 22:05:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes In-Reply-To: <004c01c0a8f8$1388c4a0$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010309230512.26afa582@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:09 PM 3/9/01 -0500, Alison wrote: >From: Joe >>> >>>The A6 intruders during the Veitnam era were serial based on >>>a fixed disk. It was part of the nav and targeting system and >>>not fly by wire. >>> >>>Allison >> >> I recently had a memory unit for an EA-6. It used core memory. It >was >>SN 001 and the ICs dated from 1966 if I remember right. Of course, there >>was probably more than memory in the EA-6. I sold the unit but I can dig >>out the description and pictures if anyone's interested. > > >EA-6 is later and used updated hardware. It's hard to think of core memory as "updated" hardware. :-) I hate to imagine what an *earlier* fixed disk looked like! Joe From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Mar 9 21:34:43 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Old complete terminal in a keyboard found...Synertek System Corp KTM-3..odd? Message-ID: <8d.37527d4.27dafad3@aol.com> << Is it fully populated or are there some empty places. It came in two versions. 40 and 80 column. The 40 was missing a number of chips. If it is a real 80 column, I'm looking for one. I already have two 40 column ones. I also have schematics for these on blue print paper. I could make copies for anyone that needed them. Dwight PS It is composite video. You just need the screen to make a full keyboard/monitor. >> That is just too cool! I have to have one.... What kind of terminals are they, and does anyone have a spare they would like to get rid of? -Linc. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 9 21:59:41 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: <008101c0a917$99325b10$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Joe >>EA-6 is later and used updated hardware. > > It's hard to think of core memory as "updated" hardware. :-) I hate to >imagine what an *earlier* fixed disk looked like! > It's my understanding that the first version was of the same general design as Minuteman-1 missle computer and similar transistor machines of the early 60s. Even the Accumulator was a "track" on the multi headed disk. Allison From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 9 22:33:00 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: Doubtless, it is a worthwhile project. However, it is fraught with difficulty. I am sure that many of us have our own private archive of EPROM images that we have saved over the years. Doubtless also, is the likelihood that they were save using different hardware and software. This equates to different storage formats from straight binary image to JEDEC and Hex. But that is the relatively easy part. Imagine the varying schemes that we have each used in naming the file and the (hopefully) description of its source and function. Surely correlating all of these is a major, if not overwhelming, task. - don > >On 9 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > >> Since I've got myself a pretty little EPROM burner, and seem to have a > >> lot of ROMs and ROM sockets around, I thought that it should be > >> worthwhile to create a central repository for all those ROMs which are > >> so difficult to get nowadays. Is this a good idea, or has somebody > >> already done it? I don't care much about copyrights, though I wouldn't > >> want to go against the wishes of the actual owners of the software > >> contained. Any thoughts? > > > >This would be a great project. > > I know that as of a couple of years ago Ward Shrake had > archived most of the known ROMs for the various VIC-20 cartridges, > including a lot of rare ones. I believe he was also behind a project > to do the same with the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game console. The last > I heard he had gotten somewhat burned out and was taking a bit of a > break from it all. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Mar 9 23:17:10 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010309211458.0210bb30@208.226.86.10> At 08:33 PM 3/9/01 -0800, Don wrote: >But that is the relatively easy part. Imagine the varying schemes that >we have each used in naming the file and the (hopefully) description of >its source and function. Surely correlating all of these is a major, if >not overwhelming, task. I have found such projects to be generally self organizing, specifically they emerge like crystals in a supersaturated solution. If someone begins to organize their ROM files and picks a few well defined rules for naming, representing, and documenting them. Then begins creating a catalog, others will notice and eventually begin to contribute their own images. The VECTREX cart project worked like this. --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 9 23:58:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010309211458.0210bb30@208.226.86.10> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010309211458.0210bb30@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >I have found such projects to be generally self organizing, >specifically they emerge like crystals in a supersaturated solution. >If someone begins to organize their ROM files and picks a few well >defined rules for naming, representing, and documenting them. Then >begins creating a catalog, others will notice and eventually begin >to contribute their own images. The VECTREX cart project worked like >this. I took a look at Ward's page for the first time in a while. Two years ago he said he was going to take them down, but they're both still up, complete with operational links to his files, though he hasn't updated anything since announcing his 'retirement'. His VIC-20 ROM archive is over 185 carts, while his Arcadia 2001 archive is something like 30-35. The documentation for how he did this is available in a seperate file and the archive for the VIC-20 includes quite a lot of information on the pinouts and such. The largest of the files, the 185+ VIC-20 ROM images, is just a little over 1meg. I forgot about the Vectrex project. I know that some of the Intellivision carts were made available for an emulator as well. Then of course you've got the HUGE number of classic ROMs archived in various places for use with MAME. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From flo at rdel.co.uk Sat Mar 10 06:41:31 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board Message-ID: <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> I've just received some VT100 boards and I have several questions. I have a VT125 case containing monitor and PSU, but with an empty card cage. Can I just plug in a board and fire it up? (Assuming that the PSU is OK, since I wouldn't know how to load it in order to test it.) There are four socketed chips together, labelled E40, E45, E52 and E56. Does anyone have the schematics and know what these contain? Three of these (E40, E52 and E56) contain AM9218 2Kx8 ROMs, but I can't find a pinout of this. Is there a pin-compatible EPROM (2716?) that I could set my PROM programmer to, in order to upload these? The fourth chip, E45, is labelled differently on the two boards Board 1. Signetics K8340 / CN7295N / 23-033E2-00 / (c) DEC 1978 Board 2. [logo S] 8015E / C48008 / 23033E2 I assume that 23033E2 is DEC's part number, but I can't find references for either 8340 or 8015. Is this another ROM? Paul From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Mar 10 07:27:27 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Need docs on Dataproducts Typhoon 20 printer Message-ID: While the printer isn't 10 yrs old it is semi-obsolete by industry standards for commercial machines. I have obtained a Dataproducts Typhoon 20 in great condition and need documentation for it and Dataproducts has none on their site. They do have software but the Win98SE drivers are actually better. The printer is essentially the same as a Xerox 4520/4520mp or a Compaq PageMarq 20 with differences being mostly in the electronics (logic board). Otherwise all three printers are same-o, same-o. If anyone has a manual they don't need and want to sell/trade for or know of an electronic copy somewhere I could download it would be appreciated. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 10 08:20:14 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: Paul Williams "Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board" (Mar 10, 12:41) References: <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> Message-ID: <10103101420.ZM26668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 10, 12:41, Paul Williams wrote: > There are four socketed chips together, labelled E40, E45, E52 and E56. > Does anyone have the schematics and know what these contain? They're the VT1xx code ROMs. In a VT100, they are contain ROMs with part numbers 23031-E2, 23032-E2, 23033-E2, and (surprise, surprise) 23034-E2. In a VT100-WC, -WK, or -AC, they contain 23095-E2, 23096-E2, 23139-E2, 23140-E2; the -WC and -WK variants also have an extra character ROM, 23094-E2. A VT125 or VT105 should have the same as a plain VT100 except that the 23031-E2 is replaced with a 23061-E2. > The fourth chip, E45, is labelled differently on the two boards > > Board 1. Signetics K8340 / CN7295N / 23-033E2-00 / (c) DEC 1978 > Board 2. [logo S] 8015E / C48008 / 23033E2 > > I assume that 23033E2 is DEC's part number, but I can't find references > for either 8340 or 8015. Is this another ROM? Yes, 23 means a mask ROM, the next three digits are the ROM code number, and the E2 is the size (2K in this case; E3 is 4K, E4 is 8K, etc). 8340 and 8015 are probably the date of manufacture. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Mar 10 10:27:35 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Exor-bus In-Reply-To: <20010305.161957.-468291.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010310112735.31670a40@mailhost.intellistar.net> Jeff, Did you get my message about the EXOR-bus cards? Interested? Joe From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Mar 10 09:18:51 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board References: <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> <10103101420.ZM26668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3AAA45DB.8CD9C5FE@tinyworld.co.uk> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Mar 10, 12:41, Paul Williams wrote: > > > There are four socketed chips together, labelled E40, E45, E52 and > > E56. Does anyone have the schematics and know what these contain? > > They're the VT1xx code ROMs. In a VT100, they are contain ROMs with > part numbers 23031-E2, 23032-E2, 23033-E2, and (surprise, surprise) > 23034-E2. In a VT100-WC, -WK, or -AC, they contain 23095-E2, > 23096-E2, 23139-E2, 23140-E2; the -WC and -WK variants also have > an extra character ROM, 23094-E2. A VT125 or VT105 should have > the same as a plain VT100 except that the 23031-E2 is replaced with > a 23061-E2. Thank you Pete, that was swift and comprehensive! Is this list on the web anywhere, or do you just happen to keep schematics to hand? Both boards have 23061-E2, 23032-E2, 23033-E2 and 23034-E2, and fifth ROM elsewhere labelled 23018-E2 (soldered, unfortunately). From gregorym at cadvision.com Sat Mar 10 10:20:34 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: <000c01c0a97e$2daa8fe0$0100a8c0@hal-9000-2> -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, March 09, 2001 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Now we are into cars and planes >At 07:09 PM 3/9/01 -0500, Alison wrote: >>From: Joe >>>> >>>>The A6 intruders during the Veitnam era were serial based on >>>>a fixed disk. It was part of the nav and targeting system and >>>>not fly by wire. >>>> >>>>Allison >>> >>> I recently had a memory unit for an EA-6. It used core memory. It >>was >>>SN 001 and the ICs dated from 1966 if I remember right. Of course, there >>>was probably more than memory in the EA-6. I sold the unit but I can dig >>>out the description and pictures if anyone's interested. >> >> >>EA-6 is later and used updated hardware. > > It's hard to think of core memory as "updated" hardware. :-) I hate to >imagine what an *earlier* fixed disk looked like! > > Joe > I seem to recall Stephen Coonts mentioning the A-6's nav system computers in "Flight of the Intruder". IIRC, there's a passage where the navigator resets the computer, and its mentioned that it uses rotating drum memory. That would make sense for early versions of the A-6, since they were designed in the late 1950's. Because of the A-6's extraordinarily long service life, it wouldn't surprise me if it hadn't been fitted with every generation of computer technology from drums to microchips during its many avionics overhauls. Cheers, Mark. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 10 11:06:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Now we are into cars and planes Message-ID: <00a301c0a984$c2bcbc60$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Mark Gregory >I seem to recall Stephen Coonts mentioning the A-6's nav system computers in >"Flight of the Intruder". IIRC, there's a passage where the navigator resets >the computer, and its mentioned that it uses rotating drum memory. That Your memory is correct. Also trying to "reset" it harder to unjam the drum. >would make sense for early versions of the A-6, since they were designed in >the late 1950's. Because of the A-6's extraordinarily long service life, it >wouldn't surprise me if it hadn't been fitted with every generation of >computer technology from drums to microchips during its many avionics >overhauls. At least 3 possibly 4 generations with the "Wild Weasels" EA-6s being in the more recent group with ARM, ECM and high altitude radar tracking platform. Early aircraft computers (pre 1980 as they generally had a 2-10 year lead over commercial) would be an area of interest here. Allison >Cheers, >Mark. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 10 12:22:27 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: Paul Williams "Re: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board" (Mar 10, 15:18) References: <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> <10103101420.ZM26668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AAA45DB.8CD9C5FE@tinyworld.co.uk> Message-ID: <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 10, 15:18, Paul Williams wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > They're the VT1xx code ROMs. [...] > Thank you Pete, that was swift and comprehensive! Is this list on the > web anywhere, or do you just happen to keep schematics to hand? Neither; it's from a chart I typed into one of my machines years ago. To be honest, I can't remember where it came from. It may have been gleaned from assorted sources. Anyway, you just happed to be lucky that I was sitting right beside the relevant machine and online to the time. > Both boards have 23061-E2, 23032-E2, 23033-E2 and 23034-E2, and fifth > ROM elsewhere labelled 23018-E2 (soldered, unfortunately). I'm not sure what 23018-E2 is. Might be a character generator. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 10 13:45:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: HP9877 External Tape Memory In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010309225859.26af6c14@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 9, 1 10:58:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5885 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010310/930d0d51/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 13:56:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> <10103101420.ZM26668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AAA45DB.8CD9C5FE@tinyworld.co.uk> <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: This isn't quite on topic but the info might help those who need or want to connect SCSI items to older PC's. A few weeks back I picked up a used Philips Omniwriter 26 CDRW to replace my flakey Philips CDD2000. With it came quite an interesting looking cable that allowed a standard SCSI peripheral to be connected to a parallel port and the driver disks for Win 3.1, Win95, NT and 2000. Drivers are also available for DOS and OS/2 and the cable provides for a printer pass-thru so that a printer can remain plugged up to it as well. It's called the 'Shuttle Connection'. It is an OEM item and actually produced by SCM Microsystems. They do provide drivers for it on thier website though it looks like it's one of thier older items that may not be available any longer. Has anyone used one of these before? Granted the speed is going to be limited by going through the parallel port, but it's an easier solution than finding and installing an ISA/EISA/MCA SCSI card for occasional use of a SCSI CD-ROM or some such item. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 10 14:16:42 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: <3AAA45DB.8CD9C5FE@tinyworld.co.uk> "from Paul Williams at Mar 10, 2001 03:18:51 pm" Message-ID: <200103102016.OAA28063@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > On Mar 10, 12:41, Paul Williams wrote: > > > > > There are four socketed chips together, labelled E40, E45, E52 and > > > E56. Does anyone have the schematics and know what these contain? > > > > They're the VT1xx code ROMs. In a VT100, they are contain ROMs with > > part numbers 23031-E2, 23032-E2, 23033-E2, and (surprise, surprise) > > 23034-E2. In a VT100-WC, -WK, or -AC, they contain 23095-E2, > > 23096-E2, 23139-E2, 23140-E2; the -WC and -WK variants also have > > an extra character ROM, 23094-E2. A VT125 or VT105 should have > > the same as a plain VT100 except that the 23031-E2 is replaced with > > a 23061-E2. And the VT132 has either 23095E2, 23096E2, 29097E2, 29098E2, OR 23180E2, 23181E2, 23183E2, 23183E2 Now you have all the information from Table 5-7, from page 5-68 of the VT100 Series Video Terminal Technical Manual ;) > > Thank you Pete, that was swift and comprehensive! Is this list on the > web anywhere, or do you just happen to keep schematics to hand? > > Both boards have 23061-E2, 23032-E2, 23033-E2 and 23034-E2, and fifth > ROM elsewhere labelled 23018-E2 (soldered, unfortunately). > Hmm I dont see that one. Does it have an E-label? If so I could probably find it on the Video Processor Block Diagram. -Lawrence LeMay From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 10 14:51:40 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <00b501c0a9a4$461a18e0$81749a8d@ajp166> > Has anyone used one of these before? Granted the speed is >going to be limited by going through the parallel port, but it's an >easier solution than finding and installing an ISA/EISA/MCA SCSI card >for occasional use of a SCSI CD-ROM or some such item. > Jeff It will likely not be fast enough for a CDwriter. The only SCSI interface thats hard to find is the MCA as ISA/EISA is the same board and generally available cheap (under 60$) if you dont need a bootable model. Allison From William.King at dadaboom.com Sat Mar 10 14:56:13 2001 From: William.King at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: rk611 controller available Message-ID: I have a mostly complete, untested rk611 controller available for sale or trade. No reasonable offer refused. As a matter of fact, if you have a 5.25 inch DEC style filler panel or the jumpers that connect a 11/34 CPU to a FPP, I'll trade you for that. The controller includes M7900, M7901, M7902, M7903 modules (one module missing) and the RK611 backplane. Oh yea, buyer pays shipping. Thanks, Bill From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Mar 10 15:08:10 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board References: <200103102016.OAA28063@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3AAA97BA.188155CC@tinyworld.co.uk> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Now you have all the information from Table 5-7, from page 5-68 of > the VT100 Series Video Terminal Technical Manual ;) Thank you! > > fifth ROM elsewhere labelled 23018-E2 (soldered, unfortunately). > > Hmm I dont see that one. Does it have an E-label? If so I could > probably find it on the Video Processor Block Diagram. Yes, it's E4. Cheers, Paul From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 15:38:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <00b501c0a9a4$461a18e0$81749a8d@ajp166> References: <00b501c0a9a4$461a18e0$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: > > Has anyone used one of these before? Granted the speed is >>going to be limited by going through the parallel port, but it's an >>easier solution than finding and installing an ISA/EISA/MCA SCSI card > >for occasional use of a SCSI CD-ROM or some such item. > >It will likely not be fast enough for a CDwriter. The only SCSI >interface >thats hard to find is the MCA as ISA/EISA is the same board and >generally available cheap (under 60$) if you dont need a bootable model. I have ISA, PCI (both Adaptec) and MCA (Future Domain) SCSI boards but thought it was interesting anyway. The driver disks included with it are from Philips along with the Philips OEM version of Adaptec Direct-CD so it would appear that it will work with the Ominwriter. I'd like to try and use it with my IBM P70 for the occasional CD-ROM since it's upper MCA slot is basically blocked by a TI 486SXL2 processor upgrade. That would allow me to leave the NIC card in the lower slot without worrying about swapping them out. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 10 15:48:05 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00b501c0a9a4$461a18e0$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AAAA115.4554EFA6@internet1.net> Microchannel isn't hard to find, as they are on Ebay all the time. In fact I just gave one away, because noone bid on it :-( EISA won't go into an ISA system, either. I don't think any wide scsi ISA cards exist. Ebay, again, is the best source for an EISA scsi card. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA ajp166 wrote: > It will likely not be fast enough for a CDwriter. The only SCSI > interface > thats hard to find is the MCA as ISA/EISA is the same board and > generally available cheap (under 60$) if you dont need a bootable model. > > Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 10 16:23:10 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Chad Fernandez > >EISA won't go into an ISA system, either. Yes, but most ISA-8 or and ISA-16 cards do fit EISA and VESA bus machines as they generally provide ISA. I know that as I have a boat load of antiques at work still running. >I don't think any wide scsi >ISA cards exist. Ebay, again, is the best source for an EISA scsi card. Most wide SCSI drives work just fine with narrow. It's not as if the machine is likely to be fast enough to really use wide SCSI performance. I generally use a ISA card from ADAPTEC as I have a 1542 and a 2906 (PCI) handy. That works in everything but the XT class boxen and MCA. Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 10 16:26:27 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: Lawrence LeMay "Re: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board" (Mar 10, 14:16) References: <200103102016.OAA28063@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <10103102226.ZM26901@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 10, 14:16, Lawrence LeMay wrote: Yep, those rows are in my table too. Now I know where I got it :-) I've also got a table of ROMs for the AVO board. Is that from the same place? Any more? To save Paul some retyping, if he wants to put it on a web site, here's the file: VT100 Series ROMS ================= Terminal Board -------------- ROM0 ROM1 ROM2 ROM3 Chargen VT100 031 032 033 034 - or 061 - - - - VT100-WC,-WK 095 096 139 140 094 VT100,VT1xx-AC 095 096 139 140 - VT132 095 096 097 098 - or 180 181 182 183 - VT125, VT105 061 032 033 034 - Advanced Video Option Board --------------------------- A B C D VT100 - - - - VT100-WA,-WB 069 - - - VT100-WC,-WK 152 - - - VT1xx-AC 284 185 - - or 186 187 - - VT132 099 100 - - or 236 237 238 239 or 224 225 226 227 VT125,VT105 - - - - -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 10 16:22:30 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: Lawrence LeMay "Re: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board" (Mar 10, 14:16) References: <200103102016.OAA28063@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <10103102222.ZM26896@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 10, 14:16, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > And the VT132 has either 23095E2, 23096E2, 29097E2, 29098E2, OR > 23180E2, 23181E2, 23183E2, 23183E2 > > Now you have all the information from Table 5-7, from page 5-68 of > the VT100 Series Video Terminal Technical Manual ;) Yep, those rows are in my table too. Now I know where I got it :-) I've also got a table of ROMs for the AVO board. Is that from the same place? Any more? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 16:27:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <3AAAA115.4554EFA6@internet1.net> References: <00b501c0a9a4$461a18e0$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAA115.4554EFA6@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Microchannel isn't hard to find, as they are on Ebay all the time. In >fact I just gave one away, because noone bid on it :-( I've got one of the Future Domain MCS-700 MCA boards OEM'd for IBM. The only thing I dislike about it is that it doesn't have the power connector of the non-OEM version. That sure would come in handy for replacing the oddball IBM hard disk in the P70. > >EISA won't go into an ISA system, either. I don't think any wide scsi >ISA cards exist. Ebay, again, is the best source for an EISA scsi card. ISA will go into EISA though just fine. I could be wrong, but i don't recall seeing anything above SCSI-2 for an ISA board. I think I may even have an old Trantor 8bit ISA SCSI board around here somewhere. All this got me thinking about the various MCA boards I had here again. It's been a while since I looked at thier size and the MCS-700 and Etherlink III are both short enough to be used in the upper slot, even with the 486 upgrade installed. Too bad in order to take the RAM above the planars 8meg I'd have to either put the 386 back in or use the 16bit Kingston KTM-609/16-2 in the lower slot. If I took the 486 upgrade out I could put the 32bit Kingston KTM-3011-4 in the upper slot. They are both full length cards vice the half-card length of the Etherlink III and Future Domain. Thankfully, OS/2 doesn't run too badly on just 8meg. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 10 17:10:08 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: <10103102226.ZM26901@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> "from Pete Turnbull at Mar 10, 2001 10:26:27 pm" Message-ID: <200103102310.RAA16651@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Mar 10, 14:16, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Yep, those rows are in my table too. Now I know where I got it :-) > > I've also got a table of ROMs for the AVO board. Is that from the same > place? Any more? Those 2 tables appear to be all the ROM numbers listed. Of course, this manual is an inch thick, so its full of all sorts of stuff. Timing diagrams, etc... Considering it IS a DEC manual, and i'm guessing DEC doesnt sell it anymore, someone should scan it in. Preferrably someone with a sheet feeder scanner that can handle double sided pages. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 10 17:12:38 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Identifying parts on a VT100 logic board In-Reply-To: <3AAA97BA.188155CC@tinyworld.co.uk> "from Paul Williams at Mar 10, 2001 09:08:10 pm" Message-ID: <200103102312.RAA16657@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Now you have all the information from Table 5-7, from page 5-68 of > > the VT100 Series Video Terminal Technical Manual ;) > > Thank you! > > > > fifth ROM elsewhere labelled 23018-E2 (soldered, unfortunately). > > > > Hmm I dont see that one. Does it have an E-label? If so I could > > probably find it on the Video Processor Block Diagram. > > Yes, it's E4. > E4 and E9 are the character generator ROMs. -Lawrence LeMay From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 10 17:15:49 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: rk611 controller available In-Reply-To: "from William King at Mar 10, 2001 12:56:13 pm" Message-ID: <200103102315.RAA16665@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > I have a mostly complete, untested rk611 controller available for sale or > trade. No reasonable offer refused. As a matter of fact, if you have a 5.25 > inch DEC style filler panel or the jumpers that connect a 11/34 CPU to a > FPP, I'll trade you for that. Hmm, I dont suppose you need any 10.5 inch DEC filler panels? -Lawrence LeMay From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Mar 10 17:30:24 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 Message-ID: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> I just received a load of Apple MACS. Among them about a half dozed LC550's from a school. They work great except they are password protected except the student accounts. Is there a way to bypass the password protection on these or will they need an operating system reload? What is the latest that these will run. They have 7.5.3 loaded now. Brian. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 10 12:36:06 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <3AAAA115.4554EFA6@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010310233631.SPQ22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:27:34 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >Microchannel isn't hard to find, as they are on Ebay all the time. In > >fact I just gave one away, because noone bid on it :-( > > I've got one of the Future Domain MCS-700 MCA boards OEM'd > for IBM. The only thing I dislike about it is that it doesn't have > the power connector of the non-OEM version. That sure would come in > handy for replacing the oddball IBM hard disk in the P70. Jeff, Bit faster than the stock ibm scsi controller only minus thing is no bus mastering. Still perfect for slower machines. I happen to have MCS-700 too and it was OEM version for IBM like yours also. What I did was take this connector from old dead HD that uses snap in with connector pins that goes through plate through holes. Like on any Tandon and early WD stepper type. Exact same connector. Make a F-F power cable on 1 pin to 1 pin. Add caps to the missing spaces besides the power connector. Done. Right now that card is in model 70-Axx w/ 540MB scsi. Not only on ebay... That MCS-700 was found at R.C. used computer/ parts resellers, chain store all over the USA. Cost me 10 USA. OT: Even I found a Iomega's BUZ card intact but no i/o pod and no s/w, so I bought it as well. :-) Cheers, Wizard From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Mar 10 17:33:35 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: rk611 controller available References: <200103102315.RAA16665@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3AAAB9CF.593E757F@heathers.stdio.com> Lawrence, How many panels do you need? Brian. Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > I have a mostly complete, untested rk611 controller available for sale or > > trade. No reasonable offer refused. As a matter of fact, if you have a 5.25 > > inch DEC style filler panel or the jumpers that connect a 11/34 CPU to a > > FPP, I'll trade you for that. > > Hmm, I dont suppose you need any 10.5 inch DEC filler panels? > > -Lawrence LeMay From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Mar 10 17:42:07 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Looking for a PDP8e/trade Message-ID: <3AAABBCF.B52F679B@heathers.stdio.com> I am looking for a complete PDP8e. It doesn't have to win any beauty pagents but I would like it functional. I have many items to trade or a combination trade and money. I have a variety of workstations, servers, SUN, APPLE, COMPAQ , DAT drives,etc. Please reply off list. Brian. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 17:50:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >I just received a load of Apple MACS. Among them about a half dozed >LC550's from a school. They work great except they are password >protected except the student accounts. Is there a way to bypass the >password protection on these or will they need an operating system >reload? What is the latest that these will run. They have 7.5.3 loaded >now. If it's a password protection on System 7.5.3 then it is most likely some kind of extension handling it. Have you tried booting with the extensions disabled (holding down the shift key as it boots)? That or try to boot off of another System CD. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 18:01:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <20010310233631.SPQ22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3AAAA115.4554EFA6@internet1.net> <20010310233631.SPQ22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >Bit faster than the stock ibm scsi controller only minus thing is no >bus mastering. Still perfect for slower machines. I happen to have >MCS-700 too and it was OEM version for IBM like yours also. What I >did was take this connector from old dead HD that uses snap in with >connector pins that goes through plate through holes. Like on any >Tandon and early WD stepper type. Exact same connector. Make a F-F >power cable on 1 pin to 1 pin. Add caps to the missing spaces >besides the power connector. Done. I thought about doing that but don't have any toasted drives with that style connector that they could donate. I'll have to keep looking for one. The other thing is that I'd likely have to make a special short SCSI cable due to the cramped insides of the P70. It'd be great having a larger drive than the stock 121meg unit though, not to mention easier to find replacements for. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From azog at azog.org Sat Mar 10 18:10:09 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Wanted VAX 750 Message-ID: <001901c0a9bf$a9683380$0a00a8c0@azog> Still looking for a hopefully working VAX 750 in NJ area... perhaps stuff to trade, mostly PC stuff tho. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 10 18:12:44 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: rk611 controller available In-Reply-To: <3AAAB9CF.593E757F@heathers.stdio.com> "from Brian Roth at Mar 10, 2001 06:33:35 pm" Message-ID: <200103110012.SAA16739@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well, I HAVE a dozen of the big panels, I NEED fewer ;) IE, I was offering if someone was in need. The other guy was looking for the smaller panels. I do have one that someone cut in half to make a 5.25" high panel, so that is something to consider doing if you really cant find a smaller panel or need a custom height. I dont even have a 19" rack for my PDP8e yet. The blank panels I found in the sub-basement of the building that the computer science department USED to be located in... -Lawrence LeMay > Lawrence, > > How many panels do you need? > > Brian. > > > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > I have a mostly complete, untested rk611 controller available for sale or > > > trade. No reasonable offer refused. As a matter of fact, if you have a 5.25 > > > inch DEC style filler panel or the jumpers that connect a 11/34 CPU to a > > > FPP, I'll trade you for that. > > > > Hmm, I dont suppose you need any 10.5 inch DEC filler panels? > > > > -Lawrence LeMay > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 10 13:25:37 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <20010310233631.SPQ22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010311002557.WYHV21945.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > I thought about doing that but don't have any toasted drives > with that style connector that they could donate. I'll have to keep > looking for one. The other thing is that I'd likely have to make a > special short SCSI cable due to the cramped insides of the P70. It'd > be great having a larger drive than the stock 121meg unit though, not > to mention easier to find replacements for. > > Jeff I see these oldie peecee stuff all the time. Jeff, if you wish, I can send you a connector. Suggestion: To make a short scsi cable. Buy a 3 connectors scsi ribbon cable, cut the longest end w/ one connector off. This leaves you a just right length for the P70. Easier with a buck knife or a heavy solid cast steel scissor not those stamped stainless steel junk that flexs. :-) Wizard From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Mar 10 19:00:40 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <3AAACE38.AA24EACF@heathers.stdio.com> Jeff, Thanks for the quick reply. I do not have a system CD so that is out. Although I have NO experience with Apples, my daughter has fallen in love with this guy. I would like to get it back to a stock config with Netscape so she can do her web thing. I woukd really like to put it on my UNIX network behind my firewall. Is TCP/IP and ethernet a tall order for one of these? BTW you were right on about the extensions. I got in fine now. Thanks for your help, Brian. > > If it's a password protection on System 7.5.3 then it is most > likely some kind of extension handling it. Have you tried booting > with the extensions disabled (holding down the shift key as it > boots)? That or try to boot off of another System CD. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Mar 10 19:06:54 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: rk611 controller available References: <200103110012.SAA16739@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3AAACFAE.7AC4C0C1@heathers.stdio.com> Lawrence, I have a few very nice 19" racks. They are DEC and are 5' in height. Your welcome to one if you are ever in the western NY area. Brian. > Well, I HAVE a dozen of the big panels, I NEED fewer ;) IE, I was offering > if someone was in need. The other guy was looking for the smaller panels. > > I do have one that someone cut in half to make a 5.25" high panel, so > that is something to consider doing if you really cant find a smaller > panel or need a custom height. > > I dont even have a 19" rack for my PDP8e yet. The blank panels I found > in the sub-basement of the building that the computer science department > USED to be located in... > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 19:37:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAACE38.AA24EACF@heathers.stdio.com> References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> <3AAACE38.AA24EACF@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: > Thanks for the quick reply. I do not have a system CD so that is out. >Although I have NO experience with Apples, my daughter has fallen in love >with this guy. I would like to get it back to a stock config with Netscape >so she can do her web thing. I woukd really like to put it on my UNIX >network behind my firewall. Is TCP/IP and ethernet a tall order for one >of these? It's a 33mhz 68030 so it is possible to use it for Netscape and such but she'll have to be patient with it. If you can find one, Earthlink had a CD with everything you need for an older Mac. You could just pick and choose the various items off of it. If you can't find it, let me know. My suggestion would be to use an older version of Netscape and something like Eudora Light 3.1 vice the current version. Both are a bit smaller and better geared towards the early system. Other suggestions would be to make sure it has a LC-PDS ethernet card, maxed RAM (36MB) and possibly even maxed VRAM (768k). There's only a single VRAM expansion SIMM socket, so it will be easy to see if it's maxed out. That'll give you 640 x 480 at 16bit. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Mar 10 19:54:19 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: "from Jeff Hellige at Mar 10, 2001 08:37:19 pm" Message-ID: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Thanks for the quick reply. I do not have a system CD so that is out. > >Although I have NO experience with Apples, my daughter has fallen in love > >with this guy. I would like to get it back to a stock config with Netscape > >so she can do her web thing. I woukd really like to put it on my UNIX > >network behind my firewall. Is TCP/IP and ethernet a tall order for one > >of these? > > It's a 33mhz 68030 so it is possible to use it for Netscape > and such but she'll have to be patient with it. If you can find one, > Earthlink had a CD with everything you need for an older Mac. You > could just pick and choose the various items off of it. If you can't > find it, let me know. My suggestion would be to use an older version > of Netscape and something like Eudora Light 3.1 vice the current > version. Both are a bit smaller and better geared towards the early > system. Other suggestions would be to make sure it has a LC-PDS > ethernet card, maxed RAM (36MB) and possibly even maxed VRAM (768k). > There's only a single VRAM expansion SIMM socket, so it will be easy > to see if it's maxed out. That'll give you 640 x 480 at 16bit. > Ouch, might as well pick up a Mac II Ci, and put a good video card in it. Does that model take the same expansion cards as a II Ci? Can you add a video card? -Lawrence LeMay From red at bears.org Sat Mar 10 20:03:53 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II Message-ID: I'm looking for a copy of the setup/install disk for a Plus HardCard II (80 MB if it makes a difference) or at least 'atdoshc2.sys' so I can use one of these two hardcards I've got in a system. 'atdoshc2.sys' no longer seems available from Quantum's site. Can anybody help? ok r. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Mar 10 20:12:07 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: new additions: amstrad, S/36 PC and more Message-ID: <77.1158f13a.27dc38f7@aol.com> it's been quite some time since Ive picked up anything new. I've reached critical mass and have had to pass by on machines which I already own except for IBM PS/2s which I salvage for adaptor cards. anyway, just this past week, I beat out several others and responded to an email about a free kaypro 10. Its in great shape and will get the disks for it later hopefully. also got an amstrad PC20 with second floppy drive and the special mouse, two mac quadra 630 and just today got an IBM 5364 which is a S/36 PC complete with the display unit and funky cables. didnt get the keyboard though. Later, I discovered I should''ve gotten the host IBM PC 5150 that was there too since it had a special card in it. I will try to go back and rescue that. Not much info can be found on the 5364, but will make a good addition to my IBM PC RT 6150. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 10 20:25:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: >Ouch, might as well pick up a Mac II Ci, and put a good video card >in it. Does that model take the same expansion cards as a II Ci? >Can you add a video card? It's an all-in-one Mac with a single LC-PDS slot. The monitor is a 14" I believe. If a LC-PDS graphics card were used, he'd have to give up the ethernet. To speed it up, it should be possible to put a LC-575 mainboard with a 33mhz 68040 into it though. If I remember correctly the whole LC-500 series uses the same mainboard style, which is the same as the Color Classic and Color Classic II. All in all, I'd say it's a nice little system for a beginner or just light use. I've tried Netscape on my stock Color Classic and it worked, but it wasn't very fast. I'm in the middle of putting a LC-575 mainboard into it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 10 19:54:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >I just received a load of Apple MACS. Among them about a half dozed >LC550's from a school. They work great except they are password >protected except the student accounts. Is there a way to bypass the >password protection on these or will they need an operating system >reload? What is the latest that these will run. They have 7.5.3 loaded >now. Try booting from a floppy. 030 can run 7.6.1 040 should run 8.1 The caveat is that systems without much memory, ie most likely yours may be much better off a few revs back. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 10 20:28:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAACE38.AA24EACF@heathers.stdio.com> References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >so she can do her web thing. I woukd really like to put it on my UNIX >network behind my firewall. Is TCP/IP and ethernet a tall order for one >of these? Every mac WANTS to be on a network. ;) Uses a LC PDS slot ethernet card, which I have for $14 shipped. 33 mhz 030 unfortuantely no fpu came stock and you can play heck finding one (68882). Memory is I think 4 mb on the board and a single 72 pin simm socket. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 10 20:37:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: "from Jeff Hellige at Mar 10, 2001 08:37:19 pm" Message-ID: >Ouch, might as well pick up a Mac II Ci, and put a good video card >in it. Does that model take the same expansion cards as a II Ci? >Can you add a video card? LC 550 is an All in One mac, it ancestor of the imac with a tube in the chassis. It has ONE LC PDS slot, and one 72 pin simm and thats it. My guess is that some LC PDS video card might work, but the IIci is a completely different animal. The IIci is a 16 mhz 68030 (with fpu so you can run NetBSD) with builtin in video and 3 standard nubus slots. Half the speed, no builtin monitor, but generally a more flexible machine. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 10 21:24:25 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> ajp166 wrote: > Yes, but most ISA-8 or and ISA-16 cards do fit EISA and VESA > bus machines as they generally provide ISA. I know that as I have a > boat load of antiques at work still running. That's true, but you aren't using the full capacity of the slot. I suppose if you already have an ISA card, and don't really want to spend anymore it's fine. I have a setup like that. I have a VLB slot with a ISA 1542B installed. I haven't actually gotten the computer up yet.... still have some IRQ/DMA conflicts, I think. > Most wide SCSI drives work just fine with narrow. It's not as if the > machine is likely to be fast enough to really use wide SCSI > performance. SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and Differential separate. I would think any high end 486 class machine would benefit from wide scsi. Remember SCSI doesn't rely on the CPU like IDE does. > I generally use a ISA card from ADAPTEC as I have a 1542 and a 2906 > (PCI) handy. That works in everything but the XT class boxen and MCA. I actually have a pair of 8-bit SCSI cards, a Seagate, and an NCR. I have used the Seagate, unfortunately it didn't see more than 2xx of the 300megs of my HD, after I repartitioned the HD on that controller. I wish I had any drivers, or utilities that would have been included with it originally. It would be neat to hook a cd-rom to it. I haven't experimented with the NCR, other than seeing if Windows 9x would see it... it didn't. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 10 16:45:52 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:07 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010311034612.DRZO22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:24:25 -0500 > From: Chad Fernandez > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > That's true, but you aren't using the full capacity of the slot. I > suppose if you already have an ISA card, and don't really want to spend > anymore it's fine. I have a setup like that. I have a VLB slot with a > ISA 1542B installed. I haven't actually gotten the computer up yet.... > still have some IRQ/DMA conflicts, I think. Straighten it out then! :-) > SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and > Differential separate. I would think any high end 486 class machine > would benefit from wide scsi. Remember SCSI doesn't rely on the CPU > like IDE does. Uh uh... usually not. Most of ISA scsi cards doesn't have the capablities to off load the cpu task to the cards. Plain scsi 1 and scsi 2 is very slow than compareable IDE pio 2 or up w/ VLB cards or pentium boards are already busmaster by hardware. Go wide. Even PCI scsi cards is usually plain. Would have to look hard to find a true high performance scsi card that has all the smarts and busmaster by default. Very rare isa have busmaster, I don't know for sure on VLB. EISA cards usually have both cpu or on board processor. On winblows drivers is a big problem on older scsi cards especially on brands that went under or bought out. anyway to use them for non-performance issues. Great for you. > I actually have a pair of 8-bit SCSI cards, a Seagate, and an NCR. I > have used the Seagate, unfortunately it didn't see more than 2xx of the > 300megs of my HD, after I repartitioned the HD on that controller. I > wish I had any drivers, or utilities that would have been included with > it originally. It would be neat to hook a cd-rom to it. I haven't > experimented with the NCR, other than seeing if Windows 9x would see > it... it didn't. This is one you touched on this issues I raised above. NCR support is nearly nothing under winblows. DOS drivers is very hard to locate unless someone has the drivers on hand to copy for u. Seagate scsi card is fixed, very limited support to segate drives only, dumb hardware robbing the cpu power for data tranfers. And needs driver to support any other drives and cdroms. Very slow anyway. I had few, finding out this then threw them out. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 10 17:04:20 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010311040440.DYHA22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:54:50 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: Apple LC550 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >I just received a load of Apple MACS. Among them about a half dozed > >LC550's from a school. They work great except they are password > >protected except the student accounts. Is there a way to bypass the > >password protection on these or will they need an operating system > >reload? What is the latest that these will run. They have 7.5.3 loaded > >now. > > Try booting from a floppy. > > 030 can run 7.6.1 > 040 should run 8.1 I have to add to this any '030 and '040, on 7.x fine w/ 8MB or more and bigger than 120MB HD to get performance. Those little conner 40, 80 and 120, some low end scsi hds is slow than what it should be. Apple is known for not using midrange hds in most of them except in high end machines. Trust me, 4MB is still too small. For OS 8.x, must have more vram for "eye-candy" and 32MB or more, '040 25MHz or faster. I have this eightball OS on that 610, slow because of cpu and slow hd. ELS 170 version of scsi as apple 160MB, was set up like this when I bought it. Swap hd for 2 or 3 generation newer. > The caveat is that systems without much memory, ie most likely yours may be > much better off a few revs back. Heed that. Or find IIcx, it has '030 and fpu by default running 25MHz, slot for cache card, only plm is ram greater than 30pin 16MB per stick, pricy. Plus side for expansion, IIcx has 3 Nubus slots. Avoid IIvi and IIvx they're low budget machines with performance to match. LC 630 CD or something better. Can buy video adapter cables to hook up peecee monitor to mac. I made one myself successfully. I used it on LC III and 610. Should work on any mac LC series, any centris, quadra, performas. Working on these Macs is far easier than peecees and more fun. Cheers, Wizard From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Mar 10 22:09:17 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Mar 10, 1 06:37:12 pm" Message-ID: <200103110409.UAA12842@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The IIci is a 16 mhz 68030 (with fpu so you can run NetBSD) with builtin in > video and 3 standard nubus slots. Half the speed, no builtin monitor, but > generally a more flexible machine. 25MHz (see Low-End Mac). And yes, the IIci is a wonderful Classic Mac. I have two, and two IIsis looking for a purpose (the cis have supplanted them). I run NetBSD on a IIci with a 50MHz Daystar accelerator. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Really???? WOW!!!!! I'm shallow TOO!!!!! ----------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 10 22:32:40 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <011601c0a9e5$59d3c6b0$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Chad Fernandez >That's true, but you aren't using the full capacity of the slot. I Maybe, likely it's not a fast machine anyway. >suppose if you already have an ISA card, and don't really want to spend >anymore it's fine. I have a setup like that. I have a VLB slot with a The other side is even if you want to spend there are few NOS boards out there and fewer have much performance. >ISA 1542B installed. I haven't actually gotten the computer up yet.... >still have some IRQ/DMA conflicts, I think. Likely. Then again I set those things up in my sleep. >SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and >Differential separate. Thanks for the info... I only work with them for a lving. ;) >I would think any high end 486 class machine >would benefit from wide scsi. Remember SCSI doesn't rely on the CPU >like IDE does. No. No. I retired an old P133 server that had a Wide SCSI card in it.. With the 33mhz FSB there was little hope of using all the performance of the SCSI-W nor the really fast disk 7200rpm disk hooked to it. With VLB or EISA your likely talking a 486DX4/133 maximum and they are even slower. I know I have a 5x86/133 with VESA and the best I see on that one is maybe 30mb/sec and that the burst rate not an average. >I actually have a pair of 8-bit SCSI cards, a Seagate, and an NCR. I >have used the Seagate, unfortunately it didn't see more than 2xx of the >300megs of my HD, after I repartitioned the HD on that controller. I That and the best data rate will be 8-10mb/sec. ISA isn't fast. Win95 if you have the OEM disk has drivers for some pretty old and oddball stuff. Maybe the point I'm making is just getting them going is often all that can be asked. Trying to go for maximum smpoke is often not worth it as recent hardware is cheap and far faster. Allison From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 10 22:52:47 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <20010311034612.DRZO22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3AAB049F.C2B13BC3@internet1.net> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and > > Differential separate. I would think any high end 486 class machine > > would benefit from wide scsi. Remember SCSI doesn't rely on the CPU > > like IDE does. > > Uh uh... usually not. Most of ISA scsi cards doesn't have the > capablities to off load the cpu task to the cards. Plain scsi 1 and > scsi 2 is very slow than compareable IDE pio 2 or up w/ VLB cards or > pentium boards are already busmaster by hardware. Go wide. The 154x (ISA) is busmastering, the 1520 isn't, However. > Even PCI scsi cards is usually plain. Would have to look hard to > find a true high performance scsi card that has all the smarts and > busmaster by default. Very rare isa have busmaster, I don't know > for sure on VLB. EISA cards usually have both cpu or on board > processor. On winblows drivers is a big problem on older scsi cards > especially on brands that went under or bought out. I have a hard time believing that PCI wouldn't be busmastering, with as new as it is. All of my EISA cards are busmastering.... I think they are 80186s on my Buslogics. My Future Domain (Microchannel) is PIO, but it runs one of my Fujitsu drives faster than I have ever seen before, according to Snooper. It's wierd, Though, another identical drive, except for capacity, is the spped I am used to. Model numbers are identical. > anyway to use them for non-performance issues. Great for you. > > > I actually have a pair of 8-bit SCSI cards, a Seagate, and an NCR. I > > have used the Seagate, unfortunately it didn't see more than 2xx of the > > 300megs of my HD, after I repartitioned the HD on that controller. I > > wish I had any drivers, or utilities that would have been included with > > it originally. It would be neat to hook a cd-rom to it. I haven't > > experimented with the NCR, other than seeing if Windows 9x would see > > it... it didn't. > This is one you touched on this issues I raised above. NCR support > is nearly nothing under winblows. DOS drivers is very hard to locate > unless someone has the drivers on hand to copy for u. Seagate scsi > card is fixed, very limited support to segate drives only, dumb > hardware robbing the cpu power for data tranfers. And needs driver > to support any other drives and cdroms. Very slow anyway. I had > few, finding out this then threw them out. How is the Seagate "hardware robbing"? I doubt I would find anything better to install in my XT or PC. It can't be any slower than MFM, and allows for the use of modern drives, although, full capacity wouldn't be used. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 10 23:59:29 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <011601c0a9e5$59d3c6b0$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AAB1441.B60E97DC@internet1.net> ajp166 wrote: > >ISA 1542B installed. I haven't actually gotten the computer up yet.... > >still have some IRQ/DMA conflicts, I think. > > Likely. Then again I set those things up in my sleep. I did a MB swap but only went over the jumpers on the MB, not the jumpers on the cards. I'll get to it, as soon as I get around to it..... really the main thing is getting the 1540 to work with the onboard 1520. > >SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and > >Differential separate. > > Thanks for the info... I only work with them for a lving. ;) You work with Differential (not LVD) every day? What do you do? > >I would think any high end 486 class machine > >would benefit from wide scsi. Remember SCSI doesn't rely on the CPU > >like IDE does. > > No. No. I retired an old P133 server that had a Wide SCSI card in it.. > With the 33mhz FSB there was little hope of using all the performance > of the SCSI-W nor the really fast disk 7200rpm disk hooked to it. With > VLB or EISA your likely talking a 486DX4/133 maximum and they > are even slower. I know I have a 5x86/133 with VESA and the best > I see on that one is maybe 30mb/sec and that the burst rate not > an average. How did you get 30mb/sec out of a 20mb/sec capable hardware setup? Narrow is 5, 8, or 10, ultra narrow is 20, wide is 20, ultra wide is 40 and U2W is 80, and U3W (U160) is 160. What VLB card is wide? I don't think Adaptec has one, do they? I would like to get a VLB wide scsi card for the computer mentioned above. What do you use for drive benchmark testing? I use Snooper, but I never get anywhere near the speeds that are advertised. I figure that Snooper must use some sort of average, and I only compare Snooper results with other Snooper results. For instance my UW drive on this computer checks in at 5,xxx Kb/sec, but should be able to hit 40megs/sec, actually 80 if I had an LVD cable. Its on a 2940U2W. > > >I actually have a pair of 8-bit SCSI cards, a Seagate, and an NCR. I > >have used the Seagate, unfortunately it didn't see more than 2xx of the > >300megs of my HD, after I repartitioned the HD on that controller. I > > That and the best data rate will be 8-10mb/sec. ISA isn't fast. > Win95 if you have the OEM disk has drivers for some pretty old and > oddball stuff. I need to rephrase that, the cards are 8-bit ISA, not 8-bit SCSI. > Maybe the point I'm making is just getting them going is often all that > can be asked. Trying to go for maximum smpoke is often not worth > it as recent hardware is cheap and far faster. I am not trying to be rude, or make enemies, but why are you on a classic computer list? Sure I want my old computers to run, but I want it to be a fast as I can get it, while maintaining reliably. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 01:51:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Installing the 1542B in a VESA slot won't give you performance beyond the ISA, since it only uses the ISA. If you can find a 284x, you'll be pleased with its performance, though. I've used a 2842 in a machine with both VLB and PCI cards and that one ( AMD 5x86 at 160 MHz) was entirely indistinguishable in its performance from a 2940 with the same number of similar drives. The 1542B is a pain because of its poor documentation but can be made to work OK. If you can get one, the 154xA version is probably as good as any and performs up to ISA spec's. What's more, its jumpering, though plentiful and confusing, is well documented. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > > > ajp166 wrote: > > Yes, but most ISA-8 or and ISA-16 cards do fit EISA and VESA > > bus machines as they generally provide ISA. I know that as I have a > > boat load of antiques at work still running. > > That's true, but you aren't using the full capacity of the slot. I > suppose if you already have an ISA card, and don't really want to spend > anymore it's fine. I have a setup like that. I have a VLB slot with a > ISA 1542B installed. I haven't actually gotten the computer up yet.... > still have some IRQ/DMA conflicts, I think. > > > Most wide SCSI drives work just fine with narrow. It's not as if the > > machine is likely to be fast enough to really use wide SCSI > > performance. > > SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and > Differential separate. I would think any high end 486 class machine > would benefit from wide scsi. Remember SCSI doesn't rely on the CPU > like IDE does. > > > I generally use a ISA card from ADAPTEC as I have a 1542 and a 2906 > > (PCI) handy. That works in everything but the XT class boxen and MCA. > > I actually have a pair of 8-bit SCSI cards, a Seagate, and an NCR. I > have used the Seagate, unfortunately it didn't see more than 2xx of the > 300megs of my HD, after I repartitioned the HD on that controller. I > wish I had any drivers, or utilities that would have been included with > it originally. It would be neat to hook a cd-rom to it. I haven't > experimented with the NCR, other than seeing if Windows 9x would see > it... it didn't. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 10 21:52:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAACE38.AA24EACF@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <687.470T1300T2925129optimus@canit.se> Brian Roth skrev: > Thanks for the quick reply. I do not have a system CD so that is out. >Although I have NO experience with Apples, my daughter has fallen in love >with this guy. I would like to get it back to a stock config with Netscape >so she can do her web thing. I woukd really like to put it on my UNIX >network behind my firewall. Is TCP/IP and ethernet a tall order for one >of these? They will handle ethernet and TCP/IP (built into system 7.5) quite fine, though the hardware bit really isn't something you stumble upon every day. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. From optimus at canit.se Sun Mar 11 05:49:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <537.470T2400T7695629optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >Installing the 1542B in a VESA slot won't give you performance beyond the >ISA, since it only uses the ISA. If you can find a 284x, you'll be pleased >with its performance, though. In a VESA slot? Am I missing something here? The AHA-1542B looks just like any 16-bit ISA card to me, no VLB connector at all. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. I use it occasionally... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From optimus at canit.se Sun Mar 11 05:06:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <467.470T2850T7266823optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >The IIci is a 16 mhz 68030 (with fpu so you can run NetBSD) with builtin in >video and 3 standard nubus slots. Half the speed, no builtin monitor, but >generally a more flexible machine. Actually, the IIci runs at 25 MHz, it's its predecessor, the IIcx, which runs at 16 MHz and lacks onboard video. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "Jag ?r 35 ?r och citerar planetens och v?rldshistoriens b?sta anime hur mycket jag vill, bl?jbarn." ?ke Rosenius From sipke at wxs.nl Sun Mar 11 06:41:22 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II References: Message-ID: <002b01c0aa28$956aebc0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Is this a HardCard usable for PC-XT type systems? If so you can lowlevel reformat the HD with a Debug command PC-XT type HD-controllers had a Extended-BIOS rom that usually resided at segment &HC800. The starting adres of the utility was offset &H0005. In debug just jump there and the uility will start. Debug -gC800:5 Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: r. 'bear' stricklin To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 3:03 AM Subject: Plus HardCard II > > I'm looking for a copy of the setup/install disk for a Plus HardCard II > (80 MB if it makes a difference) or at least 'atdoshc2.sys' so I can use > one of these two hardcards I've got in a system. > > 'atdoshc2.sys' no longer seems available from Quantum's site. > > Can anybody help? > > ok > r. > From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Mar 11 08:02:06 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 References: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com> After further inspection in the pile I found a couple of LC575's, some Centris box's, and a couple of power PC's 6100/60. Looks like the 575's have ethernet as well. How well do these machines run NetBSD? Brian. Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Ouch, might as well pick up a Mac II Ci, and put a good video card > >in it. Does that model take the same expansion cards as a II Ci? > >Can you add a video card? > > It's an all-in-one Mac with a single LC-PDS slot. The monitor is a > 14" I believe. If a LC-PDS graphics card were used, he'd have to > give up the ethernet. To speed it up, it should be possible to put a > LC-575 mainboard with a 33mhz 68040 into it though. If I remember > correctly the whole LC-500 series uses the same mainboard style, > which is the same as the Color Classic and Color Classic II. All in > all, I'd say it's a nice little system for a beginner or just light > use. I've tried Netscape on my stock Color Classic and it worked, > but it wasn't very fast. I'm in the middle of putting a LC-575 > mainboard into it. > > Jeff > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 11 08:54:25 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: References: <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> <10103101420.ZM26668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AAA45DB.8CD9C5FE@tinyworld.co.uk> <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010311095425.268f4bda@mailhost.intellistar.net> Jeff, I have a similar device made by Trantor. I've been using it with a Bernoulli 90Mb transportable unit. I've had it for quite a few years so it doesn't have drivers for W 95 or 98. It does have DOS drivers. I'm not sure about W 3.1 drivers. Joe At 02:56 PM 3/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > This isn't quite on topic but the info might help those who >need or want to connect SCSI items to older PC's. A few weeks back I >picked up a used Philips Omniwriter 26 CDRW to replace my flakey >Philips CDD2000. With it came quite an interesting looking cable >that allowed a standard SCSI peripheral to be connected to a parallel >port and the driver disks for Win 3.1, Win95, NT and 2000. Drivers >are also available for DOS and OS/2 and the cable provides for a >printer pass-thru so that a printer can remain plugged up to it as >well. It's called the 'Shuttle Connection'. It is an OEM item and >actually produced by SCM Microsystems. They do provide drivers for >it on thier website though it looks like it's one of thier older >items that may not be available any longer. > > Has anyone used one of these before? Granted the speed is >going to be limited by going through the parallel port, but it's an >easier solution than finding and installing an ISA/EISA/MCA SCSI card >for occasional use of a SCSI CD-ROM or some such item. > > Jeff > > >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 11 09:12:42 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010311101242.268f5e7e@mailhost.intellistar.net> I have disks for the hard card but I think they're for the original 20 or maybe the 40 Mb card. Do you know if they'll work? I'd never heard of a 80 Mb hard card. I dug around and found two disks but I can't read them! I'll play with them later and try to find out what's going on. Joe At 09:03 PM 3/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I'm looking for a copy of the setup/install disk for a Plus HardCard II >(80 MB if it makes a difference) or at least 'atdoshc2.sys' so I can use >one of these two hardcards I've got in a system. > >'atdoshc2.sys' no longer seems available from Quantum's site. > >Can anybody help? > >ok >r. > > From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Mar 12 08:16:54 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. References: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi Lucky guy a SX64,,,but it depends how much you paid...I was offered one for $500CAN not too long ago....sure I am crazy... I would check all chips on the boards and push on all of the socketed ones...specially the ROMs.... By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that sound right or can someone confirm this? Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Guerney To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2025 6:00 AM Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. > OK - So it might not be strange to those experts in Commodore hardware, so > I hope one of them reads this! > > This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until yesterday. > The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it > worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. > To test the disk drive, I pulled out a cartridge-based spreadsheet which had > load and save commands and the disk drive worked OK. > > The big surprise was when I put in the Simons Basic cartridge and this heavy > old "portable" C64 came up with its normal opening screen "SX-64 Basic" etc > and it loaded and ran a variety of programs from disk without a problem. But > without a cartridge, or with a C64 Super Expander cartridge, just a blank > screen. > > Could it be a RAM chip that is faulty, with Simons Basic causing some > relocation of memory that allowed the system to work? Unfortunately, the > insides are not nearly as easy to get at compared to a standard C64. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > Phil > (Brisbane, Australia) > > From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 08:19:14 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <537.470T2400T7695629optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3AAB8962.974C7394@internet1.net> It doesn't actually use the VESA extention, on the MB, so your using the slot as an ISA slot only. You are correct that the 1542B is 16-bit ISA. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >Installing the 1542B in a VESA slot won't give you performance beyond the > >ISA, since it only uses the ISA. If you can find a 284x, you'll be pleased > >with its performance, though. > > In a VESA slot? Am I missing something here? The AHA-1542B looks just like any > 16-bit ISA card to me, no VLB connector at all. From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 08:21:45 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and won't go over 1 gig :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > The 1542B is a pain because of its poor documentation but can be made to work > OK. If you can get one, the 154xA version is probably as good as any and > performs up to ISA spec's. What's more, its jumpering, though plentiful and > confusing, is well documented. > > Dick From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Mar 11 08:32:35 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: Hmmm it doesn't sound normal. The SX model usually has problems with the keyboard cable for the most part. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Phil Guerney Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2025 5:01 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. OK - So it might not be strange to those experts in Commodore hardware, so I hope one of them reads this! This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until yesterday. The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. From elecdata at kcinter.net Sun Mar 11 10:38:08 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. References: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <3AABA9EF.A8CDEDA@kcinter.net> There were quite a few of them made, I was a service center for commodore, used to have semi's pull up full for repair. May actually still have chips for them..You may have a rom problem or pla problem. Bill "Claude.W" wrote: > Hi > > Lucky guy a SX64,,,but it depends how much you paid...I was offered one for > $500CAN not too long ago....sure I am crazy... > > I would check all chips on the boards and push on all of the socketed > ones...specially the ROMs.... > > By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that > sound right or can someone confirm this? > > Claude > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Phil Guerney > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2025 6:00 AM > Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. > > > OK - So it might not be strange to those experts in Commodore hardware, > so > > I hope one of them reads this! > > > > This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until > yesterday. > > The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it > > worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. > > To test the disk drive, I pulled out a cartridge-based spreadsheet which > had > > load and save commands and the disk drive worked OK. > > > > The big surprise was when I put in the Simons Basic cartridge and this > heavy > > old "portable" C64 came up with its normal opening screen "SX-64 Basic" > etc > > and it loaded and ran a variety of programs from disk without a problem. > But > > without a cartridge, or with a C64 Super Expander cartridge, just a blank > > screen. > > > > Could it be a RAM chip that is faulty, with Simons Basic causing some > > relocation of memory that allowed the system to work? Unfortunately, the > > insides are not nearly as easy to get at compared to a standard C64. > > > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > > Phil > > (Brisbane, Australia) > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 08:50:45 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> References: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: >By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that >sound right or can someone confirm this? Judging by how often they show up for sale, I'd say the number is likely larger than 5000 units. Sure, I've never run into one while thrifting, but I've seen enough of them posted for sale locally in the newspapers, as well as on eBay and such, to suggest they aren't that rare. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Mar 11 08:52:01 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: I had 4 of them at one time about 3 yrs ago and couldn't give them away and they were complete and in good operational condition. I ended up trading all 4 for a handful of 72 pin SIMMs. NOW everyone wants them huh? Go figure. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Claude.W Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 8:17 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. Hi Lucky guy a SX64,,,but it depends how much you paid...I was offered one for $500CAN not too long ago....sure I am crazy... I would check all chips on the boards and push on all of the socketed ones...specially the ROMs.... By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that sound right or can someone confirm this? Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Guerney To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2025 6:00 AM Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. > OK - So it might not be strange to those experts in Commodore hardware, so > I hope one of them reads this! > > This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until yesterday. > The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it > worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. > To test the disk drive, I pulled out a cartridge-based spreadsheet which had > load and save commands and the disk drive worked OK. > > The big surprise was when I put in the Simons Basic cartridge and this heavy > old "portable" C64 came up with its normal opening screen "SX-64 Basic" etc > and it loaded and ran a variety of programs from disk without a problem. But > without a cartridge, or with a C64 Super Expander cartridge, just a blank > screen. > > Could it be a RAM chip that is faulty, with Simons Basic causing some > relocation of memory that allowed the system to work? Unfortunately, the > insides are not nearly as easy to get at compared to a standard C64. > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > Phil > (Brisbane, Australia) > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 08:59:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> Message-ID: >What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but >will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and >won't go over 1 gig :-( With my 1522's a number of years ago, Adaptec was more than happy to send me the ROM upgrade for the card to handle larger drives at no charge. I've always thought Adaptec had pretty good customer service and that thier products were quite robust. All of my currently used SCSI boards (2930U, 2940U2B, and 1460) are all Adaptec products. Their Toast CD mastering software is far nicer than the alternatives as well, and yes, I know they sold it to Roxio. I liked the OEM 1520 because it was PNP under Win98. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 09:05:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com> References: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >After further inspection in the pile I found a couple of LC575's, some >Centris box's, and a couple of power PC's 6100/60. Looks like the 575's >have ethernet as well. How well do these machines run NetBSD? If the 575's have ethernet, then you happened upon some that already have the LC-PDS ethernet cards already installed. The best ones were produced by Asante. On the other hand, other than the need to find the dongles to connect the monitor and ethernet to it, the 6100 is quite a capable machine. I have one here with a G3 upgrade in it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 11 09:23:56 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 11, 1 09:50:45 am" Message-ID: <200103111523.HAA10394@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that > >sound right or can someone confirm this? > > Judging by how often they show up for sale, I'd say the > number is likely larger than 5000 units. Sure, I've never run into > one while thrifting, but I've seen enough of them posted for sale > locally in the newspapers, as well as on eBay and such, to suggest > they aren't that rare. No, they aren't that rare. Definitely uncommon but you can find one without a massive amount of trouble if you're patient. They're certainly unique, but clear evidence Commodore never heard of Osborne. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." -------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 11 09:33:55 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> from Phil Guerney at "Mar 11, 25 09:00:44 pm" Message-ID: <200103111533.HAA10434@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until yesterday. > The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it > worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. > To test the disk drive, I pulled out a cartridge-based spreadsheet which had > load and save commands and the disk drive worked OK. > > The big surprise was when I put in the Simons Basic cartridge and this heavy > old "portable" C64 came up with its normal opening screen "SX-64 Basic" etc > and it loaded and ran a variety of programs from disk without a problem. But > without a cartridge, or with a C64 Super Expander cartridge, just a blank > screen. Differential diagnosis of a blank screen on a Commodore (I'm a med student :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If the screen is *black* your first suspects, in order, are the PLA and then the VIC-II. Also, as always, check the fuse. I'm guessing that the blank screen you get is a *white* screen and possibly a cyan border? If cartridges work, as they do in yours, the problem is clearly one of the ROMs. Since the disk drive is operational my first guess is the BASIC ROM, which is fortunate for you because the Kernal ROM is unique to the SX :-) I don't remember the number on it, though, but the SX Kernal should be labelled 251104 with possibly a revision number (-04?). DON'T swap that one out. The BASIC ROM is probably labelled 901226 but that's in the breadbox systems. You can take that from any regular C64, and it should work fine. If both ROMs are shot, all is not lost if you have an EPROM burner -- see this wonderful archive: http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/c64/index.html Just my $0.02! (You adjust for AUS$.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Mickey Mouse wears a Spiro Agnew watch. ------------------------------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 11 10:22:53 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Ack! Where did all the VCF4 go?? Message-ID: <200103111622.IAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Did someone preserve the pictures from VCF4? Curt's excellent retrospective on AtariHistory.com doesn't work anymore :-/ http://www.atari-history.com/vcf4/vcf4.html Clicking on the pictures (except vendor2.html) just gives 404s. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. -- Gore Vidal --------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 10:36:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <537.470T2400T7695629optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001d01c0aa49$7463b580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> That's my point, exactly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Richard Erlacher" Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 4:49 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > Richard Erlacher skrev: > > >Installing the 1542B in a VESA slot won't give you performance beyond the > >ISA, since it only uses the ISA. If you can find a 284x, you'll be pleased > >with its performance, though. > > In a VESA slot? Am I missing something here? The AHA-1542B looks just like any > 16-bit ISA card to me, no VLB connector at all. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. > I use it occasionally... :-) > --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 10:38:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AAA20FB.C806ABD@uk.thalesgroup.com> <10103101420.ZM26668@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AAA45DB.8CD9C5FE@tinyworld.co.uk> <10103101822.ZM26790@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3.0.1.16.20010311095425.268f4bda@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002701c0aa49$b848fee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Adaptec bought Trantor and, last time I looked, had the drivers for the Trantor cards/cable-adapters available on their web site. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 7:54 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > Jeff, > > I have a similar device made by Trantor. I've been using it with a > Bernoulli 90Mb transportable unit. I've had it for quite a few years so it > doesn't have drivers for W 95 or 98. It does have DOS drivers. I'm not sure > about W 3.1 drivers. > > Joe > > At 02:56 PM 3/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > > This isn't quite on topic but the info might help those who > >need or want to connect SCSI items to older PC's. A few weeks back I > >picked up a used Philips Omniwriter 26 CDRW to replace my flakey > >Philips CDD2000. With it came quite an interesting looking cable > >that allowed a standard SCSI peripheral to be connected to a parallel > >port and the driver disks for Win 3.1, Win95, NT and 2000. Drivers > >are also available for DOS and OS/2 and the cable provides for a > >printer pass-thru so that a printer can remain plugged up to it as > >well. It's called the 'Shuttle Connection'. It is an OEM item and > >actually produced by SCM Microsystems. They do provide drivers for > >it on thier website though it looks like it's one of thier older > >items that may not be available any longer. > > > > Has anyone used one of these before? Granted the speed is > >going to be limited by going through the parallel port, but it's an > >easier solution than finding and installing an ISA/EISA/MCA SCSI card > >for occasional use of a SCSI CD-ROM or some such item. > > > > Jeff > > > > > >-- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Mar 11 10:43:44 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Ack! Where did all the VCF4 go?? In-Reply-To: <200103111622.IAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010311084242.022b7690@agora.rdrop.com> At 08:22 AM 3/11/01 -0800, you wrote: >Did someone preserve the pictures from VCF4? Curt's excellent retrospective >on AtariHistory.com doesn't work anymore :-/ > >http://www.atari-history.com/vcf4/vcf4.html > >Clicking on the pictures (except vendor2.html) just gives 404s. Well... don't know about that one, but you can view my pictures from all of the VCFs to date at: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/j-event.shtml -jim jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 10:42:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> Message-ID: <003301c0aa4a$379b4b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> All my ADAPTEC cards handle drives over 1 GB with no effort of any kind on my part, i.e. straight out of the box. Perhaps you should look for the somewhat obscured BIOS update files on the ADAPTEC web site. I've been planning (though the road to hell is paved with good intentions) to fix my NETWARE server's PSU, which will make my local copies of th but I believe ADAPTEC has it still. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 7:21 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but > will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and > won't go over 1 gig :-( > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The 1542B is a pain because of its poor documentation but can be made to work > > OK. If you can get one, the 154xA version is probably as good as any and > > performs up to ISA spec's. What's more, its jumpering, though plentiful and > > confusing, is well documented. > > > > Dick > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 10:50:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> Message-ID: <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My first PC SCSI drives were interfaced via a 1522, and, though it uses programmed I/O, it was always at least fast enough for Windows or Linux use. People went on endlessly about how much better the DMA-based boards were, but, I couldn't prove it. In fact, it was over a year after I got my first 3940AU (the dual-channel version of the 2940AU) before I could get it to work, due to some problem or other with Plug-N-Pray and it never worked in some of my earlier motherboards. Once it did, it performed quite well, but only whe IT wanted to. It died within 6 months of starting to work, and none of my dead 2940AU's has lasted over 3 months. There was apparently some detail in the ADAPTEC warranty that allows them to escape their claims. In any case, I always get a quick automated reply from their answer-bot, a superficial reply from a technician at their customer service group, followed by one or more irrelevant posts and then no follow-through. In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at least with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 7:59 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > >What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but > >will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and > >won't go over 1 gig :-( > > With my 1522's a number of years ago, Adaptec was more than > happy to send me the ROM upgrade for the card to handle larger drives > at no charge. I've always thought Adaptec had pretty good customer > service and that thier products were quite robust. All of my > currently used SCSI boards (2930U, 2940U2B, and 1460) are all Adaptec > products. Their Toast CD mastering software is far nicer than the > alternatives as well, and yes, I know they sold it to Roxio. I liked > the OEM 1520 because it was PNP under Win98. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 11:02:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <3AAB1441.B60E97DC@internet1.net> References: <011601c0a9e5$59d3c6b0$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAB1441.B60E97DC@internet1.net> Message-ID: >I need to rephrase that, the cards are 8-bit ISA, not 8-bit SCSI. I just dug out my 8-bit ISA SCSI card and it turns out that it's a Future Domain TMC-850MNEC, not a Trantor board as I thought I had. Man, it's been a long time since I used this one. Nice small form factor card that would fit in pretty much anything since it doesn't extend past the end of the 8-bit slot. I think this one may have been packed with one of NEC's CD-ROMs. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 11:14:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >My first PC SCSI drives were interfaced via a 1522, and, though it uses >programmed I/O, it was always at least fast enough for Windows or Linux use. >People went on endlessly about how much better the DMA-based boards >were, but, I >couldn't prove it. In fact, it was over a year after I got my first >3940AU (the Yes, I liked the 1522A that I had. Never had any problems out of it once I upgraded the ROM so that I could use the whole 2gig of the IBM 0662 hard disk I was trying to plug up to it. I didn't care much for thier prep/format software under Windows though. >In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at least >with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. I've never had any problems with the 2930U with CD-R's, scanners and hard disks. I've not used the 2940U2B enough to make a judgement yet. I'll likely be running both in the same machine soon though so that I don't have to try and mix the LVD and SCSI-2 stuff on the same bus. The 2930U would be just for legacy stuff I don't feel like upgrading anyway, such as my scanner. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Sun Mar 11 10:29:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: Ack! Where did all the VCF4 go?? In-Reply-To: <200103111622.IAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Did someone preserve the pictures from VCF4? Curt's excellent > retrospective on AtariHistory.com doesn't work anymore :-/ I have been totally lax with that this time. I still need to get those photos that Dag Spicer (one of the exhibit judges) took, plus the audio clips he recorded as each exhibitor was interviewed. Once I get it all I'll be putting it up on the VCF website. Eventually :) If someone wants to volunteer to handle this for me then please write me at . Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 11:45:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:08 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <004f01c0aa53$072a6400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My main problem is with the 2940AU, though the support, or lack thereof, is not a design problem, but rather an ADAPTEC administrative policy. Their policy is that once they've got your money, you don't matte any more. Another comment is below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > >My first PC SCSI drives were interfaced via a 1522, and, though it uses > >programmed I/O, it was always at least fast enough for Windows or Linux use. > >People went on endlessly about how much better the DMA-based boards > >were, but, I > >couldn't prove it. In fact, it was over a year after I got my first > >3940AU (the > > Yes, I liked the 1522A that I had. Never had any problems > out of it once I upgraded the ROM so that I could use the whole 2gig > of the IBM 0662 hard disk I was trying to plug up to it. I didn't > care much for thier prep/format software under Windows though. > 2 gig's??? The two '0662's I have right here are both 1 GB. Are there different models? I've used 'em together with larger drives but they've always claimed to be 1 GB drives, which is what they claimed when they were new. They are about the best 3-1/2" SCSI drives I've used, in that there's never a problem and they always behave just as expected. If you think an Adaptec ROM update will help with that, i.e. making them 2 GB, I think you'll be disappointed. > > >In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at least > >with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. > > I've never had any problems with the 2930U with CD-R's, > scanners and hard disks. I've not used the 2940U2B enough to make a > judgement yet. I'll likely be running both in the same machine soon > though so that I don't have to try and mix the LVD and SCSI-2 stuff > on the same bus. The 2930U would be just for legacy stuff I don't > feel like upgrading anyway, such as my scanner. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Mar 11 11:56:06 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Keeper needed for RSTS and other stuff Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010311095606.0099f930@192.168.42.129> Fellow CLASSICCMP'ers, As you may remember, my interests are shifting away from computing and back to ham radio. As a result, I'm in the process of going through my stuff and clearing out what I don't want to keep. Part of my accumulation is a library of RSTS/E releases on 9-track tape. The library covers a range of 7.2 to 9.0, and there are also numerous other reels of miscellany, all on their own floorstand rack about four feet high. I need to find a keeper, or librarian for this. It would be difficult to ship, so I would like to find someone local (WA State, near Seattle) to pick them up and give them a good home, and be ready to, say, copy a distro if someone needed it. Please contact me off-list if you're willing to be the "RSTS/E Archivist." More posts coming up for more goodies. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 11:51:21 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <015c01c0aa54$a1a65060$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Chad Fernandez >What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but >will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and >won't go over 1 gig :-( > ???? The 1542 in the domain server (an old P100) has a 2.7 gb drive in a single partition. You have a bios problem not an interface problem. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 11:44:29 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <015b01c0aa54$a13231d0$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Chad Fernandez >> >SCSI is backwards compatible as long as you keep Single Ended and >> >Differential separate. >> >> Thanks for the info... I only work with them for a lving. ;) > >You work with Differential (not LVD) every day? What do you do? Work with LVD too. MIS/magician/systems engineer for small company 40+ clients 5 servers. Not to mention various standalone dedicated systems. >How did you get 30mb/sec out of a 20mb/sec capable hardware setup? Lean to the left and pray, the drive was 7200rpm baracuda running wide. Would have gotten the rated 40 but the system was the limit. Testing was under Linux and only to test hardware tuning. That system runs NT4. >Narrow is 5, 8, or 10, ultra narrow is 20, wide is 20, ultra wide is 40 >and U2W is 80, and U3W (U160) is 160. What VLB card is wide? I don't >think Adaptec has one, do they? I would like to get a VLB wide scsi >card for the computer mentioned above. Knock yourself out and good luck. >What do you use for drive benchmark testing? I use Snooper, but I never Norton, Snooper, DRivX and a few others. Generally if I needs speed IDE does it well enough. SCSI is nice as I can hang a Raid disk farm on it. >I need to rephrase that, the cards are 8-bit ISA, not 8-bit SCSI. Still isn't going to be fast. ISA poops out at 8-10mhz. >I am not trying to be rude, or make enemies, but why are you on a >classic computer list? Your rude. ;) I am an original Altair owner and have a list of classics including things like PDP-8F, PDP-11, Northstar, KIM-1, ELF, TI99/4 and a raft of CP/M systems based on S100. I can even say that most systems are operational with a bunch of the oldies still cranking real work. I've always pushed the hardware for just a bit more. PCs however tend to raise my contempt as not all are quality hardware. I have PCs too but few are "classic" to me despite their age. I consider the PS/2 50Z and my Leading Edge model D to be good examples of PC hardware. This is not to say I'm not skilled at getting all of the performance a PC can deliver. >Sure I want my old computers to run, but I want it to be a fast as I can get >it, while maintaining reliably. ;) and thats something new? Allison From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Mar 11 12:06:37 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Stuff Available (WA state) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010311100637.009a9830@192.168.42.129> (CC to classiccmp and port-vax) I have a MicroVAX II, complete, in a four-foot mini-rack with a Fujitsu 'Super Eagle' disk drive and Cipher 880 tape drive. Everything worked the last time I had it powered (about a year ago). I want it to have a good home, but I also have some time and cleanup effort invested in it, so I'd like to ask for $50.00 or best offer. LOCAL PICKUP ONLY. It's too bulky for me to ship. (Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle). Also available: -- Two complete VCB02 video subsystems for the MicroVAX II/III. We're talking boards, cables, cab kit, mice, KB's and monitors. MAKE ME AN OFFER. -- At least one, possibly two, BA23 enclosures with hardware and panels (hardware may require some digging to find). -- Spare boards! MV-II CPU's, memory, etc. I know I have some Dilog ESDI/Q-bus controllers, and there's probably some SMD boards in there as well. Prices to be determined, probably best to make me an offer depending on what you need and what I have. -- Seagate 'Saber' SMD drives, 850MB. These are nice units in their own trays, with power supply and LCD display diagnostics front panel. I have at least two left, possibly three. $25.00 each. -- PDP-11/73: I know I have at least one. Help me dig it out and we'll see! ;-) Lord only knows what else I've got in there... I have yet to go through numerous crates of stuff, but my plan is to clear out pretty much anything that I won't need to keep our server farm/Internet presence intact and healthy. This means most of my DEC stuff. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 12:02:29 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <016101c0aa56$c32dc540$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige >>In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at least >>with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. > > I've never had any problems with the 2930U with CD-R's, >scanners and hard disks. I've not used the 2940U2B enough to make a >judgement yet. I'll likely be running both in the same machine soon >though so that I don't have to try and mix the LVD and SCSI-2 stuff >on the same bus. The 2930U would be just for legacy stuff I don't >feel like upgrading anyway, such as my scanner. Same here. the 2930 series (most are U but I have a u2B)is a good board that seems to be unbreakable. I must have at least 6 in use plus another here at home. Two of those were installed to support Plextor CDwriters exclusively on systems with IDE disks. Mixing drive interface types on SCSI busses is somthing I DO NOT do, two many performance impacts. Allison From paulc at ns.sympatico.ca Sun Mar 11 12:14:06 2001 From: paulc at ns.sympatico.ca (Paul Cockrill) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 7830 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010311/07cd751e/attachment.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 4389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010311/07cd751e/attachment.jpe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 11 12:06:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> from "Phil Guerney" at Mar 11, 25 09:00:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010311/a1d98998/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 11 12:11:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <200103111533.HAA10434@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Mar 11, 1 07:33:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 974 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010311/8891b7da/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Mar 11 12:32:59 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <016101c0aa56$c32dc540$81749a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Mar 11, 2001 01:02:29 PM Message-ID: <200103111832.LAA12653@calico.litterbox.com> I've got the motherboard chipset equivilant of a 2940u2w and a second 2940u2w card in my system. The former supports all the internal drives and the latter supports the external ones. The adaptecs are a little finicky about drive connections and especially about termination, but once you get a wiring solution that works, they never *die*. (yeah, I could support the cdrom burner without its own card, but I used to have a SCSI scanner that made the chain too long, so...) My only complaint is it takes *forever* for these cards to initialise at boot time. I've also had good luck with tekram SCSI boards, although I've never used anything beyond fast scsi with them. They're quick, they're cheap, and they initialize very quickly. Unfortunately for me when I was acquiring my second scsi board, the BeOS driver situation pretty much limited you to adaptec. (it's better now, this was a while ago) Since I seem to recall this topic started out talking about 1542Bs, let me say those cards are indistructable. I ran one I got used in my linux server for 5 years - total card age probably close to 10, so it's on topic) and replaced it only because I was concerned that I could no longer get spares, and if this server dies I need to be able to fix it quick. They're a pain to set up - you have to go into debug to kick off the onboard utilities, unlike the later cards where you can do it from the keyboard - but they work. > > From: Jeff Hellige > >>In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at > least > >>with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 12:33:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <004f01c0aa53$072a6400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004f01c0aa53$072a6400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >My main problem is with the 2940AU, though the support, or lack >thereof, is not >a design problem, but rather an ADAPTEC administrative policy. >Their policy is >that once they've got your money, you don't matte any more. Maybe they've changed thier customer service policies in the last couple of years, as I've not had to use it at all. When I did 6-7 years ago for the upgrade of the 1522's BIOS, i didn't have a single problem. >2 gig's??? The two '0662's I have right here are both 1 GB. Are >there different >models? I've used 'em together with larger drives but they've >always claimed to >be 1 GB drives, which is what they claimed when they were new. They are about >the best 3-1/2" SCSI drives I've used, in that there's never a >problem and they >always behave just as expected. My mistake...I mistyped it. The drive is actually an 0664M1H and it is 2gig. I've had this thing plugged up to PC's, Amiga's, Mac's, you name it. I've had it roughly 7 years and it is one of the best drives I ever had. My only complaint is that it runs a bit hot and at the time I got it the terminator for it, which plugged into the cable connector, was still pretty pricey. Then again, when I got it in trade from someone, the drive itself was still about $1200. IBM replaced it once under warranty without any problems whatsoever. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Mar 11 12:35:28 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: from "Paul Cockrill" at Mar 11, 2001 02:14:06 PM Message-ID: <200103111835.LAA12712@calico.litterbox.com> > Hi, > > I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my > problem is that after the car has sat for a day or two it is very > hard to start - it requires pumping the accelerator at least 8 > times - once it is running normally it starts fine. A new fuel > pump was installed and a carb kit. > > Thanks > > Paul Cockrill Umm... this is a classic computers list. Also, when you send messages to a list, could you go into Outlook express's options and turn off HTML and rich text? None of those things belong in e-mail, especially on a mailing list. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Mar 11 12:38:07 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Mar 11, 2001 06:06:24 PM Message-ID: <200103111838.LAA12731@calico.litterbox.com> Can I hazard a simpler guess? Clean the cartrige port? Seems to me if it's dirty or something is shorting a pin someplace in it it could be triggering the cartrige sense even when there is no cartrige in it. Which would give you a system trying to come up with no roms. > > > > > OK - So it might not be strange to those experts in Commodore hardware, so > > I hope one of them reads this! > > > > This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until yesterday. > > The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it > > worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. > > To test the disk drive, I pulled out a cartridge-based spreadsheet which had > > load and save commands and the disk drive worked OK. > > > > The big surprise was when I put in the Simons Basic cartridge and this heavy > > old "portable" C64 came up with its normal opening screen "SX-64 Basic" etc > > and it loaded and ran a variety of programs from disk without a problem. But > > without a cartridge, or with a C64 Super Expander cartridge, just a blank > > screen. > > > > Could it be a RAM chip that is faulty, with Simons Basic causing some > > relocation of memory that allowed the system to work? Unfortunately, the > > insides are not nearly as easy to get at compared to a standard C64. > > [I'm assuming this is somewhat similar to a C64] > > My first guess is that it's partial failure of the BASIC ROM. The Kernal > is probably OK (since it can run from cartridge, run the disk drive, > etc). Since, I suspect, Simons BASIC uses some of the routines in the > BASIC ROM, I guess the ROM is partially OK, and that it's being selected > correctly by the PLA. > > But if the initialisation code in the BASIC ROM was damaged, it'd not run > BASIC if no cartridge was installed. Simons BASIC probably doesn't use > this code. > > Second guess : The Kernal ROM is partially defective -- in particular the > part that calls the BASIC ROM if no cartridge is installed. > > -tony > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 12:29:36 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Keeper needed for RSTS and other stuff Message-ID: <017101c0aa5a$f81ef1d0$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Bruce Lane > As you may remember, my interests are shifting away from computing and >back to ham radio. As a result, I'm in the process of going through my >stuff and clearing out what I don't want to keep. Hi Hi, I"m working on getting my ticket too. I've had the commercial ticket for 31 years but it's time for the HAM. Radio is my second love. Allison From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Mar 11 12:49:57 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010311104957.009aa540@192.168.42.129> At 14:14 11-03-2001 -0400, you wrote: >>>> Hi, I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my problem is that <<<< Hello. You have the wrong mailing list. CLASSICCMP is for discussions and restoration efforts surrounding classic COMPUTER HARDWARE, not cars. I doubt very much you'll get much help with carburetors from the CLASSICCMP bunch. Also, sending file attachments to a mailing list is -bad- idea unless the list owner specifically allows it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 13:01:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: 68040/33 In-Reply-To: <200103111835.LAA12712@calico.litterbox.com> References: <200103111835.LAA12712@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Any of you Mac or Amiga types need a 68040 at 33mhz? There are just two catches to this chip: 1) it needs a number of pins straightened out, as it originally came unsocketed during shipment and got tossed around. 2) it doesn't have the FPU, as it's an LC part. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From red at bears.org Sun Mar 11 14:12:07 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: <002b01c0aa28$956aebc0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Sipke de Wal wrote: > Is this a HardCard usable for PC-XT type systems? I'm not sure. It's a later model than the first hardcard, and plugs into a 16-bit ISA slot. > If so you can lowlevel reformat the HD with a Debug command > > Debug > -gC800:5 I've been there. Here's what happens. I can look at that area of memory and find the Plus BIOS copyright information and what I expect to see. If I -gC800:0005 It hangs the machine. Single stepping shows instructions starting at C800:0005 are being executed, until it gets to a 'JMP 189' or something similar to that (the number might be wrong). Then it hangs there. Dunno. Neither of my HCIIs are known operational, but they both fail in this same way. DOS can read the disks, onec the machine is booted from a floppy, but FDISK fails, format fails, writing appears to work but nothing is ever written. Quantum say I need this atdoshc2.sys to use the Hard Card, so I'm willing to believe that nothing will work properly until I find that. ok r. From liste at artware.qc.ca Sun Mar 11 14:14:11 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (Philip Gwyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com>; from broth@heathers.stdio.com on Sun, Mar 11, 2001 at 09:02:06AM -0500 References: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010311151411.A2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> Ainsi parla Brian Roth (broth@heathers.stdio.com): > After further inspection in the pile I found a couple of LC575's, some > Centris box's, and a couple of power PC's 6100/60. Looks like the 575's > have ethernet as well. How well do these machines run NetBSD? "Of course it runs NetBSD!" Oh wait, that wasn't the question... :) http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/mac68k/ Under OpenBSD, it seems that the graphics card on the LC 575 can't be used so you have to use a serial console. What's the use? Firewall, NAT. A friend once pointed out how the LC case is nearly ideal for a foot rest. :) "Bootstrapping" a fresh Mac OS install can be very annoying. You can't just FTP over a package and install it, because you need Stuffit (or equiv) and you can't install Stuffit because that requires Stuffit to turn the .sea (self-extracting archive) into something that's actually executable. Best advice is to either already have a running mac :) or buy a magazine that comes with a CD-ROM, they always have Stuffit on them. Setting up TCP/IP is relatively easy. The big gotcha is to make sure you have "Allways load driver" checked. Otherwise, you won't be able to ping into the computer unless some internet app is running. Also, Mac OS doesn't have ping, nor traceroute nor other network debuging tools. OTTools is what you want. But, how do you get it onto the Mac if you don't have a working network? I resorted to CD-R. You wouldn't happen to have a PPC-based mac that's looking for a home, would you? From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sun Mar 11 14:20:14 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (Philip Gwyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 06:28:28PM -0800 References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> <3AAACE38.AA24EACF@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010311152014.C2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> Ainsi parla Mike Ford (mikeford@socal.rr.com): > 33 mhz 030 unfortuantely no fpu came stock and you can play heck finding > one (68882). Memory is I think 4 mb on the board and a single 72 pin simm > socket. Don't the LCs have LC versions of the CPUs (68LC030 in this case) and react favourably to upgrading to a "real" CPU? -Philip From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Mar 11 14:29:14 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010311104957.009aa540@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: We have to give him a break though, after all he drives an AMC. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane => Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 12:50 PM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: Re: carter afb => => => At 14:14 11-03-2001 -0400, you wrote: => => >>>> => => => => Hi, => => I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my => problem is => that => <<<< => => => => Hello. You have the wrong mailing list. CLASSICCMP is for => discussions and => restoration efforts surrounding classic COMPUTER HARDWARE, not cars. => => I doubt very much you'll get much help with carburetors from the => CLASSICCMP bunch. => => Also, sending file attachments to a mailing list is -bad- => idea unless the => list owner specifically allows it. => => => -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- => Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies => http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com => Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) => "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be => superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). => From liste at artware.qc.ca Sun Mar 11 14:32:23 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (Philip Gwyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <20010311040440.DYHA22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron>; from jpero@sympatico.ca on Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 11:04:20PM +0000 References: <3AAAB910.93B7ED72@heathers.stdio.com> <20010311040440.DYHA22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010311153223.D2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> Ainsi parla jpero@sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca): > I made one myself > successfully. Doesn't the adapter need to tell the Mac what resolutions it can handle? > I used it on LC III and 610. Should work on any mac > LC series, any centris, quadra, performas. I got one free with my new monitor. It's stunning how less cramped the mac feels when i use my 17" rather then the 14" that came with it :) > Working on these Macs is far easier than peecees and more fun. I don't really know about fun. I was given a Centris 630AV last summer that I use to test the web sites I develope on. And, as a long-time Mac hater, I must say that Mac OS really is much friendlier and simpler then Windows. As long as I have a real computer (read Linux) nearby to do work on, playing with the Mac was nowhere near as painful as I thought it would be. My main gripe is that applications or version of apps for 68k machines are becoming few and far between. BTW, I haven't found out how to use the AV inputs on the Centris yet. Where would I find a small app that would read the video/audio in and display it on the screen, at least. This would make (albeit silly, noisy, large) monitor for my C64, TI-99 and various Ataris and Odesseys. -Philip From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 11 14:38:55 2001 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Keeper needed for RSTS and other stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010311095606.0099f930@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <13626208514.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> If you can't find anyone, I'm in Central IL, and I think I have enough stuff around to read 9-track tapes. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 11 14:39:18 2001 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Keeper needed for RSTS and other stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010311095606.0099f930@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <13626208585.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Excuse my stupid, people. That wasn't for the list but MM decided it was. ^_^ ------- From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Sun Mar 11 14:42:00 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <3AAB1441.B60E97DC@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Mar 11, 2001 00:59:29 am" Message-ID: <200103112042.MAA25125@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> I'll put my two cents into the discussion. A lot of the discussion depends upon the busses in question. Either an 8 or 16 bit ISA SCSI-1 or 2 card will saturate an ISA bus even at 5 MHz SCSI rate unless the ISA bus is overclocked. Of course the data rate at which the 16 bit card saturates the bus will be double the tranfer rate of the 8 bit card. In this case, if you're looking for max transfer rate you should probably choose polled. If you want best system performance (and you're running an OS that will take advantage of it) interrupt driven I/O is your best bet, but your max transfer rate will likely be lower than PIO. A bus master should be able to squeak out a bit more performance, to where you might get closer to the max ISA rates. The midrange busses (EISA, MCA) should be able to handle Fast Wide SCSI (20 MB/s), but they'll be near saturation there. The high end busses (VLB,PCI, SBUS,etc) should be able to handle any SCSI you want to throw at them. For our high end machines we tend to spread controllers on multiple PCI busses, but that's not exactly classic-cmp stuff. The classic-cmp question I have is at what point is a machine too slow for SCSI, and how do things degrade as a machine gets slower. My Apple IIgs doesn't seem to have any problem, but I doubt it can really handle transfers at even 1/10 the SCSI-1 rate. But I assume there is a point at which things break if bytes don't move fast enough. Anyone know what that point is? I've been thinking about sticking an 8 bit SCSI card in my old Epson PC which, because of brain damaged bus design can only pull 150 kB/s off of its drives. Think it will work? Eric From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 14:51:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >We have to give him a break though, after all he drives an AMC. Hey....some of the AMC's were pretty cool, at least into the early 70's. The Javelins and Rebels were interesting, not to mention the Hurst S/C Rambler. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 14:58:38 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <015c01c0aa54$a1a65060$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AABE6FE.A2585FDC@internet1.net> According to Adaptec's info, I printed out, I have an early bios in my 1542B, that is what is limiting the hard drive size. The later 1540 cards, starting with the later bios revisions of the "b" would handel larger drives. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA ajp166 wrote: > > From: Chad Fernandez > > >What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but > >will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and > >won't go over 1 gig :-( > > > > ???? The 1542 in the domain server (an old P100) has a 2.7 gb drive in a > single > partition. You have a bios problem not an interface problem. > > Allison From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 15:00:45 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <200103111832.LAA12653@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3AABE77D.6CB09A9E@internet1.net> They have on-board utilities? How do I access them? I thought I was limited to EZscsi utilities. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Jim Strickland wrote: > Since I seem to recall this topic started out talking about 1542Bs, let me say > those cards are indistructable. I ran one I got used in my linux server for 5 > years - total card age probably close to 10, so it's on topic) and replaced it > only because I was concerned that I could no longer get spares, and if this > server dies I need to be able to fix it quick. They're a pain to set up - > you have to go into debug to kick off the onboard utilities, unlike the later > cards where you can do it from the keyboard - but they work. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 11 15:06:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <20010311152014.C2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> from Philip Gwyn at "Mar 11, 1 03:20:14 pm" Message-ID: <200103112106.NAA11516@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > 33 mhz 030 unfortuantely no fpu came stock and you can play heck finding > > one (68882). Memory is I think 4 mb on the board and a single 72 pin simm > > socket. > Don't the LCs have LC versions of the CPUs (68LC030 in this case) and react > favourably to upgrading to a "real" CPU? That's true for the 68L0*4*0s but I didn't know there was an LC030? The LC I had, had a real standard '030 in it and it looks like it was standard. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Generating random numbers is too important to be left to chance. ----------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 11 15:05:45 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <200103112042.MAA25125@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <200103112042.MAA25125@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: >The classic-cmp question I have is at what point is a machine too slow for >SCSI, and how do things degrade as a machine gets slower. My Apple IIgs >doesn't seem to have any problem, but I doubt it can really handle transfers >at even 1/10 the SCSI-1 rate. But I assume there is a point at which things >break if bytes don't move fast enough. Anyone know what that point is? I've >been thinking about sticking an 8 bit SCSI card in my old Epson PC which, >because of brain damaged bus design can only pull 150 kB/s off of its drives. >Think it will work? Eric, Would you happen to have the utilities diskette for the Apple High-Speed SCSI board for the IIGS? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 15:07:28 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <015b01c0aa54$a13231d0$81749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AABE910.42D98E62@internet1.net> ajp166 wrote: > >How did you get 30mb/sec out of a 20mb/sec capable hardware setup? > > Lean to the left and pray, the drive was 7200rpm baracuda running wide. > Would have gotten the rated 40 but the system was the limit. Testing was > under Linux and only to test hardware tuning. That system runs NT4. :-) > >Narrow is 5, 8, or 10, ultra narrow is 20, wide is 20, ultra wide is 40 > >and U2W is 80, and U3W (U160) is 160. What VLB card is wide? I don't > >think Adaptec has one, do they? I would like to get a VLB wide scsi > >card for the computer mentioned above. > > Knock yourself out and good luck. Thats sound painful! :-) > >What do you use for drive benchmark testing? I use Snooper, but I never > > Norton, Snooper, DRivX and a few others. What is DRivX? Is that a Linux program or is it Windows or DOS? > Still isn't going to be fast. ISA poops out at 8-10mhz. Well yes, I know it won't be fast, but this is for an XT class system :-) > >I am not trying to be rude, or make enemies, but why are you on a > >classic computer list? > > Your rude. ;) Sorry :-) > I am an original Altair owner and have a list of classics including > things like > PDP-8F, PDP-11, Northstar, KIM-1, ELF, TI99/4 and a raft of CP/M systems > based on S100. I can even say that most systems are operational with a > bunch of the oldies still cranking real work. Cool, I get board with a perfectly working computer with nothing for it to do. > I've always pushed the hardware for just a bit more. PCs however tend to > raise my contempt as not all are quality hardware. I have PCs too but > few > are "classic" to me despite their age. I consider the PS/2 50Z and my > Leading Edge model D to be good examples of PC hardware. This is > not to say I'm not skilled at getting all of the performance a PC can > deliver. I get frustrated with PCs as well. I hate it when stuff won't fit together, correctly, for instance. Unfortunetly, PCs are about all I have, until I pick up my PDP11/53 Monday or Tuesday :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 15:16:16 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003301c0aa4a$379b4b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AABEB20.A4792B61@internet1.net> I don't have any way to burn the chip, Though. The older cards aren't flash upgradeable, unfortunetly. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > All my ADAPTEC cards handle drives over 1 GB with no effort of any kind on my > part, i.e. straight out of the box. Perhaps you should look for the somewhat > obscured BIOS update files on the ADAPTEC web site. I've been planning (though > the road to hell is paved with good intentions) to fix my NETWARE server's PSU, > which will make my local copies of th > but I believe ADAPTEC has it still. > > Dick From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Mar 11 15:24:31 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 References: <200103110154.TAA04052@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com> <20010311151411.A2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> Message-ID: <3AABED0F.550017BC@heathers.stdio.com> Ohillip, Already have a LRP equipped pentium for a MASQ router/firewall. Thanks for the link anyway as I may just install it to add another animal to my *NIX network. Besides, lotsa cloudy weekends still left here in WNY. They say summer is going to fall on a Tuesday this year ;> I only have one 6100. I have some Quadra 660's and Centris 610's in the pile. I can get ahold of more 6100's from the guy next week if he hasn't already sold them. Any DEC stuff to trade for one? Brian. Philip Gwyn wrote: > Ainsi parla Brian Roth (broth@heathers.stdio.com): > > > After further inspection in the pile I found a couple of LC575's, some > > Centris box's, and a couple of power PC's 6100/60. Looks like the 575's > > have ethernet as well. How well do these machines run NetBSD? > > "Of course it runs NetBSD!" Oh wait, that wasn't the question... :) > > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/mac68k/ > > Under OpenBSD, it seems that the graphics card on the LC 575 can't be used > so you have to use a serial console. What's the use? Firewall, NAT. > > A friend once pointed out how the LC case is nearly ideal for a foot rest. > :) > > "Bootstrapping" a fresh Mac OS install can be very annoying. You can't just > FTP over a package and install it, because you need Stuffit (or equiv) and > you can't install Stuffit because that requires Stuffit to turn the .sea > (self-extracting archive) into something that's actually executable. Best > advice is to either already have a running mac :) or buy a magazine that > comes with a CD-ROM, they always have Stuffit on them. > > Setting up TCP/IP is relatively easy. The big gotcha is to make sure you > have "Allways load driver" checked. Otherwise, you won't be able to ping > into the computer unless some internet app is running. Also, Mac OS doesn't > have ping, nor traceroute nor other network debuging tools. OTTools is what > you want. But, how do you get it onto the Mac if you don't have a working > network? I resorted to CD-R. > > You wouldn't happen to have a PPC-based mac that's looking for a home, would > you? > > From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Mar 11 15:54:48 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am suspecting this the front end to an email address gathering program... If you respond to the message, your email address goes onto a CDR with everyone elses... clint On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Paul Cockrill wrote: > Leaves > > Hi, > > I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my > problem is that after the car has sat for a day or two it is very > hard to start - it requires pumping the accelerator at least 8 > times - once it is running normally it starts fine. A new fuel > pump was installed and a carb kit. > > Thanks > > Paul Cockrill > > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 11 16:24:21 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb OT References: Message-ID: <014101c0aa7a$054f77c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 6:59 AM Subject: RE: carter afb > We have to give him a break though, after all he drives an AMC. Is that what we called a Rambler? I had a couple of those, some years ago. Fuel guzzling monsters, but great for towing horse floats long distances (by Oz standards of long distance) Had a 64 Classic 660 (287CI V8 - often wish I'd kept that one) when I was 18, and a 72 Matador (360CI V8) many years later, when we got into horses for a while. We had to put an additional radiator in the Matador to stop it boiling when towing in 45c summers, the original 2 core didn't come close to coping with it. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Mar 11 17:18:36 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: 2 more Finds for the musuem Message-ID: <010201c0aa81$9a83b5c0$2d721fd1@default> Well today I hit a small jackpot in that I got a almost complete HP 200LX palmtop PC with 1MB ram, leather carrying case, 3 manuals and other papers, a set of four connectors all new and still wrapped in plastic unopened. It's missing the cable for connecting it to a desktop unit. My other find is a complete Brainiac toy computer from the 1950's. This unit is in it original box with all the parts for building your own wooden computer that really works for doing math and other small task. One of the light bulbs is broken and will need a replacement. The manual is there and seems to be complete also but is showing it's age. Now if I can just find a Geniac toy computer also ??? John Keys From curt at atari-history.com Sun Mar 11 18:11:50 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: Ack! Where did all the VCF4 go?? References: Message-ID: <002b01c0aa89$09038140$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Sellam, Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know the pages are down, I'll work on fixing them from some backups during the week and get all the booths, photo's of machines and coin-ops back up, sorry about that!!! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Ack! Where did all the VCF4 go?? > On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Did someone preserve the pictures from VCF4? Curt's excellent > > retrospective on AtariHistory.com doesn't work anymore :-/ > > I have been totally lax with that this time. I still need to get those > photos that Dag Spicer (one of the exhibit judges) took, plus the audio > clips he recorded as each exhibitor was interviewed. Once I get it all > I'll be putting it up on the VCF website. > > Eventually :) > > If someone wants to volunteer to handle this for me then please write me > at . > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 19:48:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <004f01c0aa53$072a6400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002d01c0aa96$824bdcc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> BTW... I ran into a couple or three old BUSLOGIC EISA SCSI cards a couple of days ago at a local surplus house, in case someone likes those ... you can call the Denver area Gateway Electronics shop at (303) 458-5444 if you're interested. They probably won't go away soon. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > >My main problem is with the 2940AU, though the support, or lack > >thereof, is not > >a design problem, but rather an ADAPTEC administrative policy. > >Their policy is > >that once they've got your money, you don't matte any more. > > Maybe they've changed thier customer service policies in the > last couple of years, as I've not had to use it at all. When I did > 6-7 years ago for the upgrade of the 1522's BIOS, i didn't have a > single problem. > > >2 gig's??? The two '0662's I have right here are both 1 GB. Are > >there different > >models? I've used 'em together with larger drives but they've > >always claimed to > >be 1 GB drives, which is what they claimed when they were new. They are about > >the best 3-1/2" SCSI drives I've used, in that there's never a > >problem and they > >always behave just as expected. > > > My mistake...I mistyped it. The drive is actually an 0664M1H > and it is 2gig. I've had this thing plugged up to PC's, Amiga's, > Mac's, you name it. I've had it roughly 7 years and it is one of the > best drives I ever had. My only complaint is that it runs a bit hot > and at the time I got it the terminator for it, which plugged into > the cable connector, was still pretty pricey. Then again, when I got > it in trade from someone, the drive itself was still about $1200. > IBM replaced it once under warranty without any problems whatsoever. > > Jeff > > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 19:52:26 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <200103111832.LAA12653@calico.litterbox.com> <3AABE77D.6CB09A9E@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004101c0aa97$171f8860$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The 'B' version didn't have on-board utilities. However, you might find a later but useable BIOS on the web site. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 2:00 PM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > They have on-board utilities? How do I access them? I thought I was > limited to EZscsi utilities. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Jim Strickland wrote: > > Since I seem to recall this topic started out talking about 1542Bs, let me say > > those cards are indistructable. I ran one I got used in my linux server for 5 > > years - total card age probably close to 10, so it's on topic) and replaced it > > only because I was concerned that I could no longer get spares, and if this > > server dies I need to be able to fix it quick. They're a pain to set up - > > you have to go into debug to kick off the onboard utilities, unlike the later > > cards where you can do it from the keyboard - but they work. > > From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 19:53:53 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb OT References: <014101c0aa7a$054f77c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3AAC2C31.69330BCA@internet1.net> Rambler was a particular model of AMC, although, I suppose they may have used it as a brand name in your part of the world. My parents had a Matador when I was little. It was a car that my grandparents originally bought. Kaiser, Hudson (I think), Willys, Nash, and probably more combined to form AMC. AMC got bought out by Chrysler in the early 80, I think. Chrysler renamed it Eagle, after AMC's then current best selling model. Jeep was part of AMC, and remained a separate division of Chrysler. It pains me to see Chrysler a part of Daimler, but I suppose, many people on this list, especially those that live outside the US, won't understand that. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Geoff Roberts wrote: > Is that what we called a Rambler? I had a couple of those, some years > ago. > Fuel guzzling monsters, but great for towing horse floats long distances > (by Oz standards of long distance) > Had a 64 Classic 660 (287CI V8 - often wish I'd kept that one) when I > was 18, and a 72 Matador (360CI V8) many years > later, when we got into horses for a while. We had to put an additional > radiator in the Matador to stop it boiling when towing in 45c summers, > the original 2 core didn't come close to coping with it. > > Cheers > Geoff Roberts From edick at idcomm.com Sun Mar 11 19:55:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003301c0aa4a$379b4b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AABEB20.A4792B61@internet1.net> Message-ID: <004f01c0aa97$808a3a20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you find a BIOS you can use, I'm sure somebody will transplant it into a suitable eprom for you. Find the BIOS first, though. I've got one that might work, since I use a 1542B on this very machine. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 2:16 PM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > I don't have any way to burn the chip, Though. The older cards aren't > flash upgradeable, unfortunetly. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > All my ADAPTEC cards handle drives over 1 GB with no effort of any kind on my > > part, i.e. straight out of the box. Perhaps you should look for the somewhat > > obscured BIOS update files on the ADAPTEC web site. I've been planning (though > > the road to hell is paved with good intentions) to fix my NETWARE server's PSU, > > which will make my local copies of th > > but I believe ADAPTEC has it still. > > > > Dick > > From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 11 19:56:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb References: Message-ID: <3AAC2CB6.5CE1132@internet1.net> So he (the collector) would be hoping for off list "help" then? Chad fernandez Michigan, USA "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > I am suspecting this the front end to an email address gathering > program... If you respond to the message, your email address > goes onto a CDR with everyone elses... > > clint From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 20:09:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <01c301c0aa99$c4ff7c90$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Eric J. Korpela >The classic-cmp question I have is at what point is a machine too slow for >SCSI, and how do things degrade as a machine gets slower. My Apple IIgs Well expereince is that there is no too slow. I have SCSI on a 4mhz Z80 and it's decently fast compared to the MFM bridge controllers. > But I assume there is a point at which things >break if bytes don't move fast enough. Anyone know what that point is? I've No such point. I've run SCSI on said same z80 at 1mhz clock (testing something else). SCSI does not have a minimum speed. >been thinking about sticking an 8 bit SCSI card in my old Epson PC which, >because of brain damaged bus design can only pull 150 kB/s off of its drives. >Think it will work? Yes. Likely it will be faster. Most of the "slow" older PCs were due to the limited buffers on the then current disk controllers. My Leading Edge D running the 8088 (4.77mhz) ran much faster with the 8bit IDE adaptor (acculogic) and a WD420mb IDE. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 19:57:10 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: carter afb Message-ID: <01c201c0aa99$c4979300$81749a8d@ajp166> From: >> I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my Likely it was a bug, aka Outlook virus that echoed an Email and the attachment was likely the bugs pass along. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Mar 11 20:23:16 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <01d401c0aa9b$eb1e05c0$81749a8d@ajp166> From: Chad Fernandez > >What is DRivX? Is that a Linux program or is it Windows or DOS? Somthing I fond on a bbs about 9 years ago. Runs under dos but doesnt actually use dos IO. >Well yes, I know it won't be fast, but this is for an XT class system >:-) Expect less. ;) > >Cool, I get board with a perfectly working computer with nothing for it >to do. Some of them run the same apps I've used for years...sometimes for profit. I do remember the not so boring years with them. Then I find another and start over. >I get frustrated with PCs as well. I hate it when stuff won't fit >together, correctly, for instance. Unfortunetly, PCs are about all I >have, until I pick up my PDP11/53 Monday or Tuesday :-) Ah a late model Qbus machine. The PDP-11 collection inculeds: LSI-11/03 PDP-11/23 PDP-11/23B PDP-11/73 Also a PDT-11/130 Pro350 Pro380 An ex digit (DEC employee). Allison From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Mar 11 20:38:24 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: new additions: IBM S36, kaypro and more Message-ID: it's been quite some time since Ive picked up anything new. I've reached critical mass and have had to pass by on machines which I already own except for IBM PS/2s which I salvage for adaptor cards. anyway, just this past week, I beat out several others and responded to an email about a free kaypro 10. Its in great shape and will get the disks for it later hopefully. also got an amstrad PC20 with second floppy drive and the special mouse, two mac quadra 630 and just today got an IBM 5364 which is a S/36 PC complete with the display unit and funky cables. didnt get the keyboard though. Anyone have a keyboard for an IBM 3196? Later, I discovered I left behind the host IBM PC 5150 that was there too so i returned for that. It even has the S36 boot floppy still in the drive with dust on it. Can't do an IPL though, probably because the S36 keyboard is missing. Not much info can be found on the 5364, but will make a good addition to my IBM PC RT 6150. DB Young Team OS/2 antique computer collection, hot rod pinto, and more at: http://www.nothingtodo.org From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Sun Mar 11 20:46:39 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:09 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <004f01c0aa53$072a6400$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010311214639.014a63c4@obregon.multi.net.co> At 10:45 AM 3/11/01 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Jeff Hellige" >To: >Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:14 AM >Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity >> Yes, I liked the 1522A that I had. Never had any problems >> out of it once I upgraded the ROM so that I could use the whole 2gig >> of the IBM 0662 hard disk I was trying to plug up to it. I didn't >> care much for thier prep/format software under Windows though. >> >2 gig's??? The two '0662's I have right here are both 1 GB. Are there different >models? I've used 'em together with larger drives but they've always claimed to >be 1 GB drives, which is what they claimed when they were new. They are about >the best 3-1/2" SCSI drives I've used, in that there's never a problem and they >always behave just as expected I like these drives too; they are one of the few scsi drives in which I know how to set the jumpers so the drive doesn't initiate sync negotiation; this is important for many computers from the '90 vintage, as their ROMS did not like the drives initiating the negotiation. >If you think an Adaptec ROM update will help with that, i.e. making them 2 GB, I >think you'll be disappointed. >> >> >In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at least >> >with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. I haven't had a lot of experience with other PCI products. I have a CMD 6520 which works ok, although Linux did not seem to like it. Nice utilities in the BIOS, such as sector-wise duplication. It also has a 72 pin SIMM slot for a disk cache as large as 32MB, I think. I have a RAID controller by IBM in a big Linux box at work. _Very_ nice. However, the drivers for RedHat 7.0 have not surfaced yet, so we're running a heavily patched 6.2 . I have used many adaptec controllers, 1522, 2740, 2842, 3940UWDPI (dual channel; nice), 2940, 2940U, 2940U2. Never had a real problem with any of them. Upgrading the BIOS is usually a good idea, though. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Mar 11 21:47:24 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! Message-ID: When I saw the message header, I thought that it referred to Carter Air Force Base, and, looking at the +20K length, I was sure that someone had discovered a long-forgotten warehouse stuffed full of classic Big Iron from times gone by... But, LOL! Carburetors! OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there Rochesters... yuck, poo! Cheers John From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 11 21:55:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: TOPS-10 v7.03 Install Proceedure Message-ID: I just finished posting the following to, alt.sys.pdp10, and I figure some others here might be interested in the instructions on how setup the emulator. Note, at this time ts10 works best under Linux. Work is being done to get it working on other UNIX varients, but at this time Linux is your best bet. The following is a *Rough Draft*, but it should be enought to get a system setup. Zane Installation of TOPS-10 v7.03 I'm guessing this might be of use to some people, and it can serve as a starting point to a better document. I'm sure it's in need of corrections, as I've doubts as to wether or not the system is coming up right. The following procedure is mainly based on stuff Greg Satz, Parag Patel, and Timothy Stark have posted. I'd figured out a lot of this, but this looks a lot better than what I'd done :^) Based on Mark Hittinger's comments about the RIB errors which I'd noticed in my first install, I've used 1990 as the year in the following and it seems to have not had any problem. I believe others have done this giving the correct date without any problem though. STEP 1. First get the following tapes from http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com > BB-X138B-BB KS Bootable TOPS-10 v7.03 tape > BB-X140B-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 Monitor sources > BB-X128B-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 w/sources #1 > BB-FP63A-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 w/sources #2 > BB-FP64A-SB TOPS-10 v7.03 Tools w/sources > BB-X130B-SB CUSP w/sources You can also get the sources for the ts10 emulator here. STEP 2. Apply the following patch. diff -c -r1.1 system.c *** pdp10/system.c 2001/02/27 14:17:06 1.1 --- pdp10/system.c 2001/03/11 22:01:50 *************** *** 120,126 **** } text7[p] = 0; ! sprintf(text, "%012Lo ('%s' '%s')", data, text6, text7); return text; } --- 120,126 ---- } text7[p] = 0; ! sprintf(text, "%012qo ('%s' '%s')", data, text6, text7); return text; } *************** *** 348,355 **** // int reqBoot = FE_P0_MONITOR_PREBOOT; // int reqBoot = FE_P0_DIAGNOSTIC_PREBOOT; // int reqBoot = FE_P0_BOOTCHECK2_PREBOOT; ! uint8 inBuffer[0777 * 5]; ! int36 inBlock[0777]; int36 idHom = util_PackedASCII6("HOM"); int36 dAddr36; int36 data36; --- 348,355 ---- // int reqBoot = FE_P0_MONITOR_PREBOOT; // int reqBoot = FE_P0_DIAGNOSTIC_PREBOOT; // int reqBoot = FE_P0_BOOTCHECK2_PREBOOT; ! uint8 inBuffer[01000 * 5]; ! int36 inBlock[01000]; int36 idHom = util_PackedASCII6("HOM"); int36 dAddr36; int36 data36; STEP 3. Startup the emulator. [healyzh@ts10 ts10]$ ./ks10 -f ks10.cfg Welcome to TS10 Emulator v0.7 (Alpha) Unit uba: had been created. Addr=776700 Mask=000077 IntBR=6 IntVec=254 Addr=772440 Mask=000037 IntBR=6 IntVec=224 Device RPA0: had been created. Device RPA1: had been created. Device MTA: had been created. Device MTA0: had been created. Device MTA1: had been created. Device MTB: had been created. Device MTB0: had been created. Device MTB1: had been created. Unit rha0 had been initialized. Unit rpa0 had been initialized. Unit rha1 had been initialized. Unit mta had been initialized. Unit mtb had been initialized. Unit 0 dType RP06 Unit rpa0 had been attached with 'tops10_703.dsk' file. Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with 'tops10_703_ksbootable_bb-x138b-bb.tap' file. TS10> boot mta0: Booting MTA0... Now running... BOOTM V6(37) BTM>/tm02 KS10 03-19-86 Why reload: new Date: 11-mar-90 Time: 11:00 Startup option: destroy % WARNING: All structures will be refreshed. All disk files will be destroyed. All information on currently spinning packs will be lost. Do not proceed unless you are positive that you want to do this. Proceed? (Y or )y HOME blocks written on all units RPA0 first BAT block consistency error RPA0 second BAT block consistency error Both BAT blocks are bad. Do you want to initialize the BAT blocks on this unit? y Not normally done, are you sure? y Initializing BAT blocks Start system? (Y or )y Disk file structures: DSKB:RPA0(ONC403) To automatically log-in under [1,2] type "LOGIN" KS10 11:00:10 . LOGIN .ASSIGN MTA0: TAPE: MTA000 assigned .GET TAPE:BACKUP Job setup .SAVE BACKUP BACKUP saved .RUN BACKUP /TAPE TAPE: /SUPERSEDE ALWAYS /INTERCHANGE /FILES /RESTORE SYS:=*.* ! SYSTEM EXE "Done /RESTORE DEC:=*.* ! SMFILE EXE SMFILE HLP SMFILE TXT T10KL ULD KSBOOT EXE BOOTM RDI T10KL RAM "Done /EXIT [^E pressed] .TS10> attach mta0: cuspmar86binsrc_1of2_bb-x128b-sb.tap Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with 'cuspmar86binsrc_1of2_bb-x128b-sb.tap' file. TS10> continue Running now... .RUN BACKUP /TAPE TAPE: /INTERCHANGE /SUPERSEDE ALWAYS /PROTECTION 055 /FILES /RESTORE DSKB: [a lot of filenames print out] $BKPEOT Reached EOT--mount new tape then type "GO" [^E Pressed] /TS10> attach mta0: cuspmar86binsrc_2of2_bb-fp63a-sb.tap Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with 'cuspmar86binsrc_2of2_bb-fp63a-sb.tap' file. TS10> continue Running now... GO [a lot more filenames print out] "Done [^E pressed] .TS10> attach mta0: cuspmar86binsrc_1of2_bb-x128b-sb.tap Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with 'cuspmar86binsrc_1of2_bb-x128b-sb.tap' file. TS10> continue .RUN BACKUP /TAPE TAPE: /INTERCHANGE /SUPERSEDE ALWAYS /PROTECTION 055 /FILES /@dskb:[10,7,build]cusps.rst [You'll need to change to the second tape when it wants you to. When this is done, make the disk bootable.] .RUN DEC:SMFILE DECSYSTEM 2020 DIAGNOSTICS FE-FILE PROGRAM VERSION 2.5, TOPS-10, KS10, CPU#=5000 [FOR HELP TYPE "HELP"] SMFILE>WRITE SETUP DSKB:[1,5\5\4] SMFILE>WRITE RESET SMFILE>READ DEC:T10KL.ULD SMFILE>WRITE CRAM SMFILE>WRITE BOOT DEC:KSBOOT.EXE SMFILE>WRITE DONE SMFILE>EXIT EXIT .R CREDIR Create directory: ACT: [^E pressed] TS10> quit STEP 4. Now you should be ready to startup your system from disk. [healyzh@ts10 ts10]$ ./ks10 -f ks10.cfg Welcome to TS10 Emulator v0.7 (Alpha) Unit uba: had been created. Addr=776700 Mask=000077 IntBR=6 IntVec=254 Addr=772440 Mask=000037 IntBR=6 IntVec=224 Device RPA0: had been created. Device RPA1: had been created. Device MTA: had been created. Device MTA0: had been created. Device MTA1: had been created. Device MTB: had been created. Device MTB0: had been created. Device MTB1: had been created. Unit rha0 had been initialized. Unit rpa0 had been initialized. Unit rha1 had been initialized. Unit mta had been initialized. Unit mtb had been initialized. Unit 0 dType RP06 Unit rpa0 had been attached with 'tops10_703.dsk' file. Unit 0 dType TU45 Unit mta0 had been attached with 'tops10_703_ksbootable_bb-x138b-bb.tap' file. TS10> boot rpa0: Booting RPA0... [Reading first HOM block...] [Reading FE-FILE Page 0 at C 213 T 11 S 1] [Reading Monitor Pre-boot at C 213 T 13 S 13] Now running... BOOT V3(47) BOOT> [Loading from DSKB:SYSTEM.EXE[1,4]] KS10 03-19-86 Why reload: sched Date: 11-mar-90 Time: 19:36 Startup option: go [Rebuilding the system search list from the HOMe blocks] [Rebuilding the active swapping list from the HOMe blocks] [Rebuilding the system dump list from the HOMe blocks] KS10 19:36:01 CTY system 5000 Connected to Node (0) Line # 42 .LOGIN 1,2 .R OPSER [OPRPAF Processing auto command file] ?OPRALF LOOKUP failure 0 * [CCPWFD Waiting for file daemon to start] %%TTY STOMPER - Starting *^C .R LOGOUT [LGTOUL Other users logged-in under [1,2]] Job 2 User OPSER [1,2] Logged-off CTY at 19:36:42 on 11-Mar-90 Runtime: 0:00:01, KCS:10, Connect time: 0:00:41 Disk Reads:126, Writes:0, Blocks saved:0 .LOGIN 1,2 Job 2 KS10 CTY [LGNJSP Other jobs same PPN] [LGNLAS Last access to [1,2] succeeded on 4-Mar-86:17:48:53] 19:36 11-Mar-90 Sunday . SYSTAT Status of KS10 at 19:49:53 on 11-Mar-90 Uptime 13:52, 117% Null time = 117% Idle + 0% Lost, 0% Overhead 12 Jobs in use out of 35. 12 logged in, 10 detached. Job Who Line# What Size(P) State Run Time 1 [OPR] DET41 STOMPR 7+8 SL 1 01 2 [OPR] CTY SYSTAT 21+SPY RN 1 4 [OPR] DET41 ACTDAE 180+39 SL 4 5 [OPR] DET41 DAEMON 20+SPY SL 1 6 [OPR] DET41 FILDAE 17 HB 0 7 [OPR] DET41 QUASAR 108+39 SL 2 8 [OPR] DET41 PULSAR 65+39 HB 1 9 [OPR] DET41 CATLOG 30+39 HB 1 10 [OPR] DET41 ORION 96+39 SL 2 11 [OPR] 41 4 ^C 0 17 [OPR] DET41 BATCON 38+39 SL 1 29 [OPR] DET41 LPTSPL 58+39 HB 1 n means job runs in HPQ n High Segments: Program Device Owner High(P) Users INITIA DSKB [SYS] 8 1 GLXLIB DSKB [SYS] 39 7 Swapping space used = 655/2000 = 33% Virt. Core used = 691/2000 = 35% 84P Core left Active swapping ratio = 21/775 = .02 Virt. Core saved by sharing = 234/(234+691) = 25% Average job size =644/12 = 53.6P+281/12 = 23.4P Total=925/12 = 77.0P No busy devices System File Structures: Name Free Mount DSKB 213910 2 Total Free 213910 . -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 11 16:57:28 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <20010311153223.D2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> References: <20010311040440.DYHA22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron>; from jpero@sympatico.ca on Sat, Mar 10, 2001 at 11:04:20PM +0000 Message-ID: <20010312035745.UYTU22784.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:32:23 -0500 > From: Philip Gwyn > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple LC550 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Hi Philip, > Ainsi parla jpero@sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca): > > > I made one myself > > successfully. > Doesn't the adapter need to tell the Mac what resolutions it can handle? Correct! That adapter cable sets the resolutions. Mine is configured for 640x480 pc standard but in the OS setting it can be 800 x 600. If I want 1024x768, I have to use more VRAM installed and rewire the adapter. Very minor task and already documented. Can send you links for that. That seller offered to sell me a mac 14" monitor for cost of decent sandwich but I knew it's very low resolution and I don't have space to put that thing somewhere. Apple's many monitors are fixed frequency monitor only and one resolution. Yuk. > > Working on these Macs is far easier than peecees and more fun. > > I don't really know about fun. I was given a Centris 630AV last summer that > I use to test the web sites I develope on. And, as a long-time Mac hater, I > must say that Mac OS really is much friendlier and simpler then Windows. As > long as I have a real computer (read Linux) nearby to do work on, playing > with the Mac was nowhere near as painful as I thought it would be. My main > gripe is that applications or version of apps for 68k machines are becoming > few and far between. Mac is fun to work on after you hack a HD SC formatter w/ regedit (easy) so you can support non-apple scsi hds. Again, that's documented on 'net. Keep searching and get lucky if you can buy another Mac full of software on it's hd. > BTW, I haven't found out how to use the AV inputs on the Centris yet. Where > would I find a small app that would read the video/audio in and display it > on the screen, at least. This would make (albeit silly, noisy, large) > monitor for my C64, TI-99 and various Ataris and Odesseys. There's a way, you will find a way. And ask here. > -Philip Cheers, Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Mar 11 22:22:12 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Was there a Carter AFB? After 20 yrs in the AF I'd heard of a lot of old base names but I don't think Ive ever heard of a Carter. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson => Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 9:47 PM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! => => => => When I saw the message header, I thought that it referred to Carter Air => Force Base, and, looking at the +20K length, I was sure that someone had => discovered a long-forgotten warehouse stuffed full of classic Big Iron => from times gone by... From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 11 22:37:53 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010311101242.268f5e7e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > I have disks for the hard card but I think they're for the original 20 > or maybe the 40 Mb card. Do you know if they'll work? I'd never heard of a > 80 Mb hard card. Joe, there was also a 127mb HardCard. I can send the files if you'd like. - don > I dug around and found two disks but I can't read them! I'll play with > them later and try to find out what's going on. > > Joe > > At 09:03 PM 3/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > >I'm looking for a copy of the setup/install disk for a Plus HardCard II > >(80 MB if it makes a difference) or at least 'atdoshc2.sys' so I can use > >one of these two hardcards I've got in a system. > > > >'atdoshc2.sys' no longer seems available from Quantum's site. > > > >Can anybody help? > > > >ok > >r. > > > > > > From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 11 22:58:18 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > We have to give him a break though, after all he drives an AMC. His ribs or his fingers? - don > => -----Original Message----- > => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane > => Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 12:50 PM > => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > => Subject: Re: carter afb > => > => > => At 14:14 11-03-2001 -0400, you wrote: > => > => >>>> > => > => > => > => Hi, > => > => I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my > => problem is > => that > => <<<< > => > => > => > => Hello. You have the wrong mailing list. CLASSICCMP is for > => discussions and > => restoration efforts surrounding classic COMPUTER HARDWARE, not cars. > => > => I doubt very much you'll get much help with carburetors from the > => CLASSICCMP bunch. > => > => Also, sending file attachments to a mailing list is -bad- > => idea unless the > => list owner specifically allows it. > => > => > => -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > => Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > => http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > => Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > => "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > => superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). > => > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 00:27:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: AAUI Transceivers (was Re: Apple LC550) In-Reply-To: <3AABED0F.550017BC@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010312062733.27071.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Roth wrote: > Ohillip, > > I only have one 6100. I have some Quadra 660's and Centris 610's in the > pile. I can get ahold of more 6100's from the guy next week if he hasn't > already sold them. Any DEC stuff to trade for one? Just got a WQuadra 660AV myself this weekend. I'm in the market for a couple of AAUI transceivers - one for this box and one for my PowerMac 6100 that also happens to need one of those high-density video plug adapters for the AV monitor (I'm looking to find one *without* resorting to eOverPay) So... anyone here have a couple of AAUI<->10BaseT transceivers they'll let go cheap? I found some places that have them for about $10, shipped, especially if you want 10Base2 instead. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 11 04:56:22 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Looking for a PDP8e/trade In-Reply-To: Brian Roth "Looking for a PDP8e/trade" (Mar 10, 18:42) References: <3AAABBCF.B52F679B@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <10103111056.ZM1110@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 10, 18:42, Brian Roth wrote: > I am looking for a complete PDP8e. It doesn't have to win any beauty > pagents but I would like it functional. I have many items to trade or a > combination trade and money. I have a variety of workstations, servers, > SUN, APPLE, COMPAQ , DAT drives,etc. Well, that makes at least (!) two of us :-) I've been looking for one for years :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 12 01:36:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my problem >is that after the car has sat for a day or two it is very hard to start - >it requires pumping the accelerator at least 8 times - once it is running >normally it starts fine. A new fuel pump was installed and a carb kit. If your like me, then one of the extra pieces in the carb kit apparently was important. My guess is that the gas is leaking out of the carb after sitting a few days, or leaking out of some portion of the carb. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 12 02:12:44 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: AAUI Transceivers (was Re: Apple LC550) In-Reply-To: <20010312062733.27071.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3AABED0F.550017BC@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >--- Brian Roth wrote: >> Ohillip, >> >> I only have one 6100. I have some Quadra 660's and Centris 610's in the >> pile. I can get ahold of more 6100's from the guy next week if he hasn't >> already sold them. Any DEC stuff to trade for one? > >Just got a WQuadra 660AV myself this weekend. I'm in the market for a couple >of AAUI transceivers - one for this box and one for my PowerMac 6100 that also >happens to need one of those high-density video plug adapters for the AV >monitor (I'm looking to find one *without* resorting to eOverPay) > >So... anyone here have a couple of AAUI<->10BaseT transceivers they'll let >go cheap? I found some places that have them for about $10, shipped, >especially if you want 10Base2 instead. If you want thin coax, 10b2 AAUI, those are cheap, not as cheap as 10b2 nubus cards, but ala $5 each plus shipping. I have some very good deals on 10b5 vampire taps too. Not very common at all, but I have them, AAUI to both 10bt and 10b2 (no I don't think you can use both at once). From optimus at canit.se Mon Mar 12 03:23:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <20010311152014.C2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> Message-ID: <809.471T550T6233843optimus@canit.se> Philip Gwyn skrev: >Ainsi parla Mike Ford (mikeford@socal.rr.com): >> 33 mhz 030 unfortuantely no fpu came stock and you can play heck finding >> one (68882). Memory is I think 4 mb on the board and a single 72 pin simm >> socket. >Don't the LCs have LC versions of the CPUs (68LC030 in this case) and react >favourably to upgrading to a "real" CPU? Is there such a thing as an LC030? I'm familiar with the EC030, but since LC should signify lack of FPU, and there is no FPU inegrated into any '030, what would it signify? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r / das wu?te ich so gut / was so ein junger Boy / aus lauter Liebe tut /?ich w?rde in die Schwulenscene gehn /?und sexy Boys den Kopf verdrehn / ich h?tt genug Verkehr / wenn ich ein Junge w?r. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r - Nina Hagen From optimus at canit.se Mon Mar 12 02:51:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> Message-ID: <421.471T1350T5915139optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >What I want it one of the later 1542 cards that isn't plug an play, but >will handle drives over 1 gig. Both my 1542s have the earlier bios and >won't go over 1 gig :-( What BIOS would this be? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > well, maybe if it contained ChibiChibi-JarJar pairing.. Okay, so now I'm thinking about a threesome between ChibiChibi, Jar-Jar and Pikachu. You bastard. A. Jones From optimus at canit.se Mon Mar 12 02:47:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AAB855D.4610BA9F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <977.471T2050T5876015optimus@canit.se> Brian Roth skrev: >After further inspection in the pile I found a couple of LC575's, some >Centris box's, and a couple of power PC's 6100/60. Looks like the 575's >have ethernet as well. How well do these machines run NetBSD? The x100 PPC series won't run NetBSD due to the Nubus architecture as well as the lack of "open firmware". As for the 68k Macs, they could probably run NetBSD a lot better if there were sufficient hardware documentation. There's nothing wrong with the software, but the presentation could be better. There's still only monochrome video and no sound. If the Centrises are 610s, they probably need to have the LC040 CPU replaced with a full '040 with integrated FPU. The 650 already has got a rather speedy '040. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > (It's sorta like sed, but not. It's sorta like awk, but not. etc.) Guilty as charged. Perl is happily ugly, and happily derivative. --Larry Wall in <1992Aug26.184221.29627@netlabs.com> From optimus at canit.se Mon Mar 12 03:00:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: <003301c0aa4a$379b4b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <1213.471T1950T6005835optimus@canit.se> Richard Erlacher skrev: >All my ADAPTEC cards handle drives over 1 GB with no effort of any kind on my >part, i.e. straight out of the box. Perhaps you should look for the somewhat >obscured BIOS update files on the ADAPTEC web site. I've been planning >(though the road to hell is paved with good intentions) to fix my NETWARE >server's PSU, which will make my local copies of th but I believe ADAPTEC has >it still. Looking on my hard drive, I found these files: ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//eprom_bios/b154x.exe ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//eprom_bios/b154x334.exe ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//eprom_bios/b154xg.exe ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//scsi/general/154x_faq.txt ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//manuals/user_guides/1540b_um.pdf ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//manuals/user_guides/aha1540_um.pdf ftp://ftp.adaptec.digisle.net//scsi/general/154xb_jm.pdf Have fun. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. [E]xcept in the works of Gunnar Asplund, architect of the Stockholm Exhibition of 1930 and the Stockholm crematorium, Sweden has never contributed much to the revolutionary developments through which modern architecture made its initial impact on the world. J.M. Richards, Modern Architecture From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 04:32:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, >properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were >always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there >Rochesters... yuck, poo! Then you had the Corvair's with thier 2-4 single barrel Webbers...nice but tempermental to keep working right. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 04:37:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Fwd: Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board Message-ID: Here's a message I figured someone on the list might be able to help with. I have a Dilog board in my MicroVAX II but don't know enough about it to answer his question. Jeff >Sender: root@dd.vaz.tlt.ru >Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:27:49 +0400 >From: TOSA >Reply-To: cav@b3339.dd.vaz.tlt.ru >X-Accept-Language: en >To: jhellige@earthlink.net >Subject: Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board > >WE HAVE Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board > > HOW LOAD FIRMWARE RESIDENT FORMATTER/DIAGNOSTICS UTILITY ? > > >Thanks -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From azog at azog.org Mon Mar 12 04:58:55 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: TOPS-10 v7.03 Install Proceedure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just FYI: it works just fine and dandy under FreeBSD. Compiled clean from CVS code, and booted. > > I just finished posting the following to, alt.sys.pdp10, and I figure some > others here might be interested in the instructions on how setup the > emulator. Note, at this time ts10 works best under Linux. Work is being > done to get it working on other UNIX varients, but at this time Linux is > your best bet. From guerney at bigpond.com Mon Mar 12 05:38:17 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. References: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <004501c0aae8$ff219760$7937fea9@Guerney> From: Claude.W > Lucky guy a SX64,,,but it depends how much you paid...I was offered one for > $500CAN not too long ago....sure I am crazy... Only 30 Aussie dollars which is just 15 US dollars today (bad news for us who like to buy imported techie goodies). > I would check all chips on the boards and push on all of the socketed > ones...specially the ROMs.... That was the first thing I tried to do (and about the limit of my technical abilities) > By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that > sound right or can someone confirm this? Definitely not common. In the mid-80's I was in a club of over 1,000 Commodore users and as far as I know only one person owned a SX-64 and it was a major "show and tell" when he brought it along! Phil From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Mar 12 06:36:23 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: AAUI Transceivers (was Re: Apple LC550) In-Reply-To: <20010312062733.27071.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's a couple AAUI transceivers for the PowerMac on ebay right now. A lot of people actually give the 10base2 away or trade for the cost of shipping. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks => Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 12:28 AM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: AAUI Transceivers (was Re: Apple LC550) => => => => --- Brian Roth wrote: => > Ohillip, => > => > I only have one 6100. I have some Quadra 660's and Centris => 610's in the => > pile. I can get ahold of more 6100's from the guy next week if => he hasn't => > already sold them. Any DEC stuff to trade for one? => => Just got a WQuadra 660AV myself this weekend. I'm in the market => for a couple => of AAUI transceivers - one for this box and one for my PowerMac => 6100 that also => happens to need one of those high-density video plug adapters for the AV => monitor (I'm looking to find one *without* resorting to eOverPay) => => So... anyone here have a couple of AAUI<->10BaseT transceivers => they'll let => go cheap? I found some places that have them for about $10, shipped, => especially if you want 10Base2 instead. => => -ethan => => => ===== => Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to => vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com => => The original webpage address is still going away. The => permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ => => See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. => => __________________________________________________ => Do You Yahoo!? => Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. => http://auctions.yahoo.com/ => From guerney at bigpond.com Mon Mar 12 05:34:08 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. References: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> <005901c0aaff$16d7d5c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <003f01c0aae8$dbe00480$7937fea9@Guerney> > Lucky guy a SX64,,,but it depends how much you paid...I was offered one for > $500CAN not too long ago....sure I am crazy... Only 30 Aussie dollars which is just 15 US dollars today (bad news for us who like to buy imported techie goodies). > I would check all chips on the boards and push on all of the socketed > ones...specially the ROMs.... That was the first thing I tried to do (and about the limit of my technical abilities) > By the way, I have been told that 5000 of these SX64 were made...does that > sound right or can someone confirm this? Definitely not common. In the mid-80's I was in a club of over 1,000 Commodore users and as far as I know only one person owned a SX-64 and it was a major "show and tell" when he brought it along! Phil From guerney at bigpond.com Mon Mar 12 05:38:55 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. References: Message-ID: <006501c0aaea$f6c74ea0$7937fea9@Guerney> From: Russ Blakeman > Hmmm it doesn't sound normal. The SX model usually has problems with the > keyboard cable for the most part. And how vulnerable that cable is. The system has the reputation of being well-designed, and it is solidly built, but that cable connector gets in the way of the handle and is obviously easy to damage. Phil From guerney at bigpond.com Mon Mar 12 05:49:29 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. References: <200103111533.HAA10434@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <006601c0aaeb$4e62ace0$7937fea9@Guerney> From: Cameron Kaiser > I'm guessing that the blank screen you get is a *white* screen and possibly > a cyan border? You are right, the screen is not black rather it glows white, but without a border. > If cartridges work, as they do in yours, the problem is clearly one of the > ROMs. Since the disk drive is operational my first guess is the BASIC ROM, > which is fortunate for you because the Kernal ROM is unique to the SX :-) > I don't remember the number on it, though, but the SX Kernal should be > labelled 251104 with possibly a revision number (-04?). DON'T swap that one > out. The BASIC ROM is probably labelled 901226 but that's in the breadbox > systems. You can take that from any regular C64, and it should work fine. That appears to be the upshot of the advice in the various replies inlcuding Tony's (thanks everyone). Not surprisingly, I have plenty of C64 spares from which to pull a BASIC-ROM . > If both ROMs are shot, all is not lost if you have an EPROM burner -- see this > wonderful archive: > > http://www.funet.fi/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/c64/index.html I might get to try the C64 EPROM burner sitting on the shelf! Thanks. > Just my $0.02! (You adjust for AUS$.) Sadly, I would have to cough up 4 aussie cents plus $10 bank charges :( Phil From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 12 04:08:59 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:32:23 EST." <20010311153223.D2868@joe.artware.qc.ca> Message-ID: <200103121009.KAA07722@citadel.metropolis.local> Philip Gwyn said: > As > long as I have a real computer (read Linux) nearby to do work on, playing > with the Mac was nowhere near as painful as I thought it would be. My 630 is networked to the Linux box and I can telnet in from it and even run MI/X (a Mac X-Window server). > BTW, I haven't found out how to use the AV inputs on the Centris yet. Where > would I find a small app that would read the video/audio in and display it > on the screen, at least. This would make (albeit silly, noisy, large) > monitor for my C64, TI-99 and various Ataris and Odesseys. I think what you need is "Apple Video Player". AFAIK it came on the system CD - it did with my Performa 630 - though you should be able to find it on Apples site. I'm using it now with an old video camera to watch the wild birds on the bird feeder in the garden! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Mar 12 07:30:09 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: TOPS-10 v7.03 Install Proceedure In-Reply-To: from "Billy D'Augustine" at "Mar 12, 2001 05:58:55 am" Message-ID: <200103121330.f2CDU9E01797@bg-tc-ppp1301.monmouth.com> > Just FYI: it works just fine and dandy under FreeBSD. Compiled clean from > CVS code, and booted. Works great with FreeBSD 4.3-BETA intel arch here as well. > > I just finished posting the following to, alt.sys.pdp10, and I figure some > > others here might be interested in the instructions on how setup the > > emulator. Note, at this time ts10 works best under Linux. Work is being > > done to get it working on other UNIX varients, but at this time Linux is > > your best bet. -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 08:53:08 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:47 PM 3/11/01 -0500, you wrote: > > When I saw the message header, I thought that it referred to Carter Air >Force Base, and, looking at the +20K length, I was sure that someone had >discovered a long-forgotten warehouse stuffed full of classic Big Iron >from times gone by... > > But, LOL! Carburetors! > > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, >properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were >always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there >Rochesters... yuck, poo! I'm also an ex-motor head. I used to run a Carter AFB on my 340 Plymouth motor that I stuffed into a '52 MG TD. Wow! What a ride! But NOTHING beat my 426 Hemi with dual AFBs that I had in my Plymouth Superbird! I've slowed down a bit but I still have a '70 Dodge Challanger with a 440 Six-Pak sitting in the side yard. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 08:46:11 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010311101242.268f5e7e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312094611.47a7969c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:37 PM 3/11/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > >> I have disks for the hard card but I think they're for the original 20 >> or maybe the 40 Mb card. Do you know if they'll work? I'd never heard of a >> 80 Mb hard card. > >Joe, there was also a 127mb HardCard. I can send the files if you'd >like. > - don Don, Will the same files work for the other smaller hard cards? If so I'd like a copy since I have a number of hard cards around that I've been saving for future use. However I wasn't the one that originally asked for the files, 'bear' stricklin" was the one that needed them. Thanks, Joe > >> I dug around and found two disks but I can't read them! I'll play with >> them later and try to find out what's going on. >> >> Joe >> >> At 09:03 PM 3/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >> > >> >I'm looking for a copy of the setup/install disk for a Plus HardCard II >> >(80 MB if it makes a difference) or at least 'atdoshc2.sys' so I can use >> >one of these two hardcards I've got in a system. >> > >> >'atdoshc2.sys' no longer seems available from Quantum's site. >> > >> >Can anybody help? >> > >> >ok >> >r. >> > >> > >> >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 08:48:09 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312094809.47a705ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:22 PM 3/11/01 -0600, Russ, the comedian, Blakeman wrote: >Was there a Carter AFB? After 20 yrs in the AF I'd heard of a lot of old >base names but I don't think Ive ever heard of a Carter. Yeah, it's located in the middle of a peanut field in Georgia. :-) Joe From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Mon Mar 12 07:55:06 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? Message-ID: Hi, may be an obscure question, but I wonder why the transputer died without anybody missing it ? Mario From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 12 09:06:54 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B2/300 Unix 5 System Software available References: <3.0.1.16.20010312094809.47a705ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001f01c0ab06$143f2550$27784ed8@DOMAIN> Hi Gang, I came across about 45 disks of AT&T Unix System 5 for the 3B2/300. I don't have the machine but it looks like a nice place to play with K&R C... The first person who will agree to make copies for the next person needing them can have the disk set for the cost of shipping... Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 12 09:08:02 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308212028.00b923e0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <002501c0ab06$3ca9d350$27784ed8@DOMAIN> From: Jim Battle > Do you know if you have the original, or the Sorcerer II? What's the difference between the two models? - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 12 01:49:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <00ca01c0a9b0$cc357e90$81749a8d@ajp166> <3AAAEFE9.E51E1E8B@internet1.net> <000f01c0aa00$0fbc6260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AAB89F9.B7FCC3A6@internet1.net> <003b01c0aa4b$519bad80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3.0.2.32.20010311214639.014a63c4@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <000001c0ab05$fa2ccc80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, you've had better luck that I've had with ADAPTEC PCI products. I just recently threw out a box of 18 or so 2940AU's none having been used for more than three months and all dead. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlos Murillo" To: Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 7:46 PM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > At 10:45 AM 3/11/01 -0700, you wrote: > >From: "Jeff Hellige" > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 10:14 AM > >Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > >> Yes, I liked the 1522A that I had. Never had any problems > >> out of it once I upgraded the ROM so that I could use the whole 2gig > >> of the IBM 0662 hard disk I was trying to plug up to it. I didn't > >> care much for thier prep/format software under Windows though. > >> > >2 gig's??? The two '0662's I have right here are both 1 GB. Are there > different > >models? I've used 'em together with larger drives but they've always > claimed to > >be 1 GB drives, which is what they claimed when they were new. They are > about > >the best 3-1/2" SCSI drives I've used, in that there's never a problem and > they > >always behave just as expected > > I like these drives too; they are one of the few scsi drives in which > I know how to set the jumpers so the drive doesn't initiate sync > negotiation; this is important for many computers from the '90 vintage, > as their ROMS did not like the drives initiating the negotiation. > > >If you think an Adaptec ROM update will help with that, i.e. making them 2 > GB, I > >think you'll be disappointed. > >> > >> >In general, I'd say that if you can find an alternative to ADAPTEC, at > least > >> >with their PCI products, I'd use the alternative. > > I haven't had a lot of experience with other PCI products. I have > a CMD 6520 which works ok, although Linux did not seem to like it. > Nice utilities in the BIOS, such as sector-wise duplication. It also > has a 72 pin SIMM slot for a disk cache as large as 32MB, I think. > I have a RAID controller by IBM in a big Linux box at work. > _Very_ nice. However, the drivers for RedHat 7.0 have not surfaced > yet, so we're running a heavily patched 6.2 . > > I have used many adaptec controllers, 1522, 2740, 2842, 3940UWDPI > (dual channel; nice), 2940, 2940U, 2940U2. Never had a real problem > with any of them. Upgrading the BIOS is usually a good idea, though. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 12 09:24:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! References: Message-ID: <000101c0ab09$68931960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, in the pre-Nader days, or shortly after his rise to prominence, I had a Corvair, and if my experience is any indication at all, they're not a major source of trouble. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:32 AM Subject: Re: Carter AFB.. he he! > > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, > >properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were > >always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there > >Rochesters... yuck, poo! > > Then you had the Corvair's with thier 2-4 single barrel > Webbers...nice but tempermental to keep working right. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Mar 12 09:43:40 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection Message-ID: <200103121543.f2CFhet12232@www.trailingedge.com> I'd have to go back and check the tech manuals to be sure but I believe the main difference was the amount of memory on the main board. There were a few other minor differences in the boards but nothing really major as I recall. I have a bunch of new manual scans I just need to finish cleaning up and then I'll place them on my Exidy site. http://www.trailingedge.com/exidy/ Now if I could just find the S100 expansion box and some drives. *wishing hard* :) On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Mike wrote: > From: Jim Battle > > > Do you know if you have the original, or the Sorcerer II? > > > What's the difference between the two models? ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat http://www.trailingedge.com From red at bears.org Mon Mar 12 09:47:15 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010312094611.47a7969c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > >Joe, there was also a 127mb HardCard. I can send the files if you'd > >like. > > - don > > Will the same files work for the other smaller hard cards? If so I'd > like a copy since I have a number of hard cards around that I've been > saving for future use. However I wasn't the one that originally asked for > the files, 'bear' stricklin" was the one that needed them. > > Joe Unfortunately, the 127 (I thought it was 105) MB model is a II XL which does NOT use the same drivers. Somebody on list sent me a II XL disk image, which I was unable to make work. The II XL stuff is still available from Quantum's web site. Apparently, the atdoshc2.sys IS the same driver for the old 8-bit 20 and 40 MB hardcards (though at an older revision). According to a MS Knowledgbase article somebody sent me, version 1.31 is for the 8-bit HardCards and version 1.4 is the desired version for the 16-bit HardCard IIs. I don't have any indication if the older version will at least work with the newer card---the newer version is apparently needed for proper operation with Windows. I still need atdoshc2.sys. (: ok r. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Mar 12 09:46:30 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Looking for--data on ProLog SBCs Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58796DA@MAIL10> Hello, all: I came across a small 4-slot cage with three STD BUS boards. One is an 8085-based SBC (#7805), an I/O board of some sort (#7604). The other is a PIO board from another manufacturer. Anyway, does anyone have any data on these boards? The Motorola Web site (new owners of ProLog) doesn't mention these boards (probably because of their age). Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 10:12:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! Message-ID: <01Mar12.111740est.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> If I recall the models correctly, all but the Monza had just two of the Webbers, including the turbo-charged version. I believe the Monza was the model with the 4 carbs and there were problems keeping them synced but it was still a very nice engine. Sturdy, compact and lightweight. The gearbox was a bit of an oddity though. If I had the space for one, I wouldn't mind having another, as I had a '60 model. Jeff >Well, in the pre-Nader days, or shortly after his rise to prominence, I had a >Corvair, and if my experience is any indication at all, they're not a major >source of trouble. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Hellige" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:32 AM >Subject: Re: Carter AFB.. he he! > > >> > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, >> >properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were >> >always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there >> >Rochesters... yuck, poo! >> >> Then you had the Corvair's with thier 2-4 single barrel >> Webbers...nice but tempermental to keep working right. >> >> Jeff >> -- From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 10:19:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <01Mar12.112441est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Well, you've had better luck that I've had with ADAPTEC PCI products. I just >recently threw out a box of 18 or so 2940AU's none having been used for more >than three months and all dead. With that kind of failure rate, one has to wonder if there's some kind of underlying problem other than the Adaptec boards. Jeff From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Mar 12 10:24:25 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: carter afb References: Message-ID: <3AACF838.BDA2352C@eoni.com> Thanks for jogging my memory... Carters are notorious for porous castings. The Thermo-quad especially. You might be right Mike. Another possibility is the lack of a heat shield between the carb and the manifold allowing the engine heat to boil off the fuel in the bowl after shutdown. IMHO, the best solution is to replace the carb with a 600cfm vacuum secondary Holley. And that's the only comment I'm a gonna make. (Is the original poster still around?) Jim Mike Ford wrote: > > >I have a 1969 AMC Javelin SST - 343 with a Carter AFB Carb - my problem > >is that after the car has sat for a day or two it is very hard to start - > >it requires pumping the accelerator at least 8 times - once it is running > >normally it starts fine. A new fuel pump was installed and a carb kit. > > If your like me, then one of the extra pieces in the carb kit apparently > was important. > > My guess is that the gas is leaking out of the carb after sitting a few > days, or leaking out of some portion of the carb. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 12 10:28:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! References: <01Mar12.111740est.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <000901c0ab11$6d636c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Mine was a Corsa, which had four of the carb's, IIRC. It had plenty of get-up-and-go even for a car much more endowed with horsepower. It was light and quick, yet handled well. I don't remember experiencing any of the effects that Nader complained about but that was probably because the model year I had ('65) had the "fixed" rear suspension. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Carter AFB.. he he! > If I recall the models correctly, all but the Monza had just two of the > Webbers, including the turbo-charged version. I believe the Monza was the > model with the 4 carbs and there were problems keeping them synced but it > was still a very nice engine. Sturdy, compact and lightweight. The gearbox > was a bit of an oddity though. If I had the space for one, I wouldn't mind > having another, as I had a '60 model. > > Jeff > > >Well, in the pre-Nader days, or shortly after his rise to prominence, I had a > >Corvair, and if my experience is any indication at all, they're not a major > >source of trouble. > > > >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jeff Hellige" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 3:32 AM > >Subject: Re: Carter AFB.. he he! > > > > > >> > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, > >> >properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were > >> >always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there > >> >Rochesters... yuck, poo! > >> > >> Then you had the Corvair's with thier 2-4 single barrel > >> Webbers...nice but tempermental to keep working right. > >> > >> Jeff > >> -- > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 12 10:32:00 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity References: <01Mar12.112441est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <000f01c0ab11$f7258980$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The failure mode, for almost all 2940 cases was that, while the setup ROM program worked, the adapter was never able to see devices on the SCSI bus. Simply substituting another controller made the devices magically appear and function properly. I'm not the only one who's seen this failure mode. What bothers me is that, while the Adaptec support tech's recognize the problem, they don't follow through with their "service" and replace the part as the warranty suggests. The 3940AU that recently died simply wasn't recognized by its own firmware, though it got far enough in the plug-n-pray sequence to foul things up. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 9:19 AM Subject: Re: SCSI connectivity > >Well, you've had better luck that I've had with ADAPTEC PCI products. I just > >recently threw out a box of 18 or so 2940AU's none having been used for more > >than three months and all dead. > > With that kind of failure rate, one has to wonder if there's some kind > of underlying problem other than the Adaptec boards. > > Jeff > > From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Mon Mar 12 10:40:52 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Looking for--data on ProLog SBCs Message-ID: Rich, I have a s***load of STD BUS boards and DOCS including 4 or 5 complete systems with 8" disks. Alas, no hard drive based systems. If there's any specific info, you're looking for, I'd be glad to look it up for you? Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner or digital camera so bear with me :-( The 7805 is a SBC that may or may not need any additional support cards. They were mostly used in industrial or dedicated controllers and in fact many are still in use today. Most of those boards (although not all) have the processor, serial I/O, RAM, ROM, and timing circuitry all on one board. Being controllers, there were a wide range of IO options available. Everything from ADC/DAC converters, 16, 32, 48, 64 bit parallel interfaces, OPTO 22 and relay drivers, temperature sensors, DISK controllers, etc... Certainly the two additional cards that you have fit that category. With all the IO options, they make great platforms for home automation projects. Most of the external cards have jumpers that can be used to configure the address range (ports) for the cards. Most cards would work with any ports as long as there wasn't an addressing conflict. With a range of 255 ports, the system was very flexible. I don't recall for sure but, I think STD standard only requires GND, +5, +12, and -12 volts. If that's the case, you should be able to wire a regular PC power supply to the backplane. A full rack which could be 20 or more cards will certainly suck some power but the few cards that you have would be well within the capacity of a small PS. If you trace the lines from the 1488 and 1489 chips to the header connector, you should be able with a little experimentation figure out how to connect a dumb terminal. If not, I'll look it up for you. As far as software, most of the controllers either had the application burned in ROM or they would boot from an external disk (often CPM). The BIOSs may be specific to a particular variant of the OS so, not all of them will work together. IE: A microsys BIOS will probably not work with a DEC version CPM. A prolog BIOS may not work with a microsys boot disk, etc... Let me know what specific info you need. See ya, Steve >From: "Cini, Richard" >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: "'ClassCompList'" >Subject: Looking for--data on ProLog SBCs >Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:46:30 -0500 > >Hello, all: > > I came across a small 4-slot cage with three STD BUS boards. One is >an 8085-based SBC (#7805), an I/O board of some sort (#7604). The other is >a >PIO board from another manufacturer. > > Anyway, does anyone have any data on these boards? The Motorola Web >site (new owners of ProLog) doesn't mention these boards (probably because >of their age). > > Thanks. > >Rich _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Mar 12 10:50:26 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 11, 2001 04:05:45 pm" Message-ID: <200103121650.IAA17205@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Would you happen to have the utilities diskette for the Apple > High-Speed SCSI board for the IIGS? Sorry, I've got a non-apple SCSI board. Is this it? Or is this something different? ftp://ftp.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Apple_II/Apple_II_Supplemental/Apple_II_SCSI_Utilities.sea.bin Eric From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Mar 12 11:05:21 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? References: Message-ID: <3AAD01D1.8090200@olf.com> What makes you think nobody is missing it? Ram Mario Premke wrote: > Hi, > may be an obscure question, but I wonder why the transputer died without > anybody missing it ? > Mario > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 12 11:06:55 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, John Lawson wrote: > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, > properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were > always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there > Rochesters... yuck, poo! Weber DCOEs were always my favorite, followed by Solex (just through excess familiarity) and Keihin. Balancing 4 Keihins (one jug per barrel) on a Honda S800 was actually fun. Unlike balancing Solex PDSITs, which was almost always due to user tampering. FSOT: Holley made a twin choke progressive downdraft that was a licensed Weber design. I have an unused one in box with manifold adapter for 1200cc Honda Civic ('73 - '74 and non-CA - '79?) The original post did NOT provide enough information to confirm that the problem is carburetor! His symptoms could come from MANY other causes, such as old spark plug wires that are susceptible to dampness. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 12 10:06:42 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? Message-ID: Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the first production release was 1.10? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 12 11:30:51 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: Transputer ... ? (Mario Premke) References: Message-ID: <15021.1995.101831.192137@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 12, Mario Premke wrote: > may be an obscure question, but I wonder why the transputer died without > anybody missing it ? Eh? Mine works just fine. ;) -Dave McGuire From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 12 11:31:19 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B2/300 Unix 5 System Software available References: <3.0.1.16.20010312094809.47a705ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> <001f01c0ab06$143f2550$27784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <001c01c0ab1a$40b55960$54794ed8@DOMAIN> The 3b2 disks have been claimed by George Currie who has said.... "If so, I'll take'em (and promise to supply any other needy souls)." ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Mar 12 11:43:36 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:10 2005 Subject: REALLY OT Corvairs References: <01Mar12.111740est.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <000901c0ab11$6d636c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AAD0AC4.B1ECF1F2@eoni.com> Not Webers... Rochesters. The first American car to come from the factory with a Weber was... The Ford Pinto! (Weber 32/36, manufactured under license by Holley as the 5200.) Jim Jeff Hellige wrote: > > If I recall the models correctly, all but the Monza had just two of the > Webbers, including the turbo-charged version. I believe the Monza was the > model with the 4 carbs and there were problems keeping them synced but it > was still a very nice engine. Sturdy, compact and lightweight. The gearbox > was a bit of an oddity though. If I had the space for one, I wouldn't mind > having another, as I had a '60 model. > > Jeff > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Mar 12 12:49:13 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The earliest I've seen is 1.25 for the Sumicom System 330, but the machine wasn't 100% IBM compatible. It was a pretty neat machine though - I wish I could remember what I did with it. :) g. On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > first production release was 1.10? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 12 11:58:32 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > first production release was 1.10? FALSE The original PC-DOS was 1.00 Widely distributed. It supported only single sided 160K drives. I have PC-DOS 1.00. I do not have an MS-DOS 1.00, but I don't think that the entire after-market clone world waited until 1.10. 1.10 supported double sided 320K drives. 2.00 included support for sub-directories, file-handle based file IO, and 9 sector per track (v 8) for 180K and 360K drives. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Mar 12 12:00:39 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58796DE@MAIL10> Sam: I've heard the same thing. I can check the file dtaes tonight, but as I recall, the dates corresponded to the release date of the PC. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:07 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the first production release was 1.10? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 12 12:03:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > The earliest I've seen is 1.25 for the Sumicom System 330, but the machine > wasn't 100% IBM compatible. It was a pretty neat machine though - I wish > I could remember what I did with it. :) MS-DOS 1.25 appears to be the same as PC-DOS 1.10 Did ANY of the OEMS release MS-DOS 1.10? Which clones had single sided drives (and presumably preceded 1.10/1.25)? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 12:25:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? Message-ID: <01Mar12.133104est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Here's what I have as far as OEM and IBM DOS versions, part numbers and release dates when known: MS-DOS 1.17H for Sanyo MBC-555 MS-DOS 1.25 Release J for Corona (700055) MS-DOS 2.11 Release 1 for Corona (3/28/85) MS-DOS 2.11 Release 4 for Corona (700500) PC-DOS 1.10 (IBM, 5/7/82) PC-DOS 2.00 (IBM, 3/8/83) PC-DOS 2.10 (IBM, 10/20/83) PC-DOS 3.10 (IBM, 3/7/85) >On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: >> The earliest I've seen is 1.25 for the Sumicom System 330, but the machine >> wasn't 100% IBM compatible. It was a pretty neat machine though - I wish >> I could remember what I did with it. :) > >MS-DOS 1.25 appears to be the same as PC-DOS 1.10 > >Did ANY of the OEMS release MS-DOS 1.10? > >Which clones had single sided drives (and presumably preceded 1.10/1.25)? > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 12 12:26:40 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58796DE@MAIL10> Message-ID: I HAVE copies of PC-DOS 1.00 and of PC-DOS 1.10 The most visibly obvious difference was support for 2 sided drives. There also were some patches, informally distributed, for 1.00 to use 2 sided drives, where the second side would be seen by DOS as an additional drive. Surely I can't be the only one here who had the first (1.00) version and anxiously awaited the release of the second (1.10) one! By the time Compaq came out with their first luggable, IBM was on 1.10 and Compaq had 1.25. But what about the clones that made it out BEFORE 1.10/1.25? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > Sam: > I've heard the same thing. I can check the file dtaes tonight, but > as I recall, the dates corresponded to the release date of the PC. > > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 11:07 AM > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? > > > > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > first production release was 1.10? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 12:36:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: BSD/OS 1.1 Message-ID: <01Mar12.134210est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> We seem to have a bunch of Unix-types on here so I thought I'd pose a question. Today, I came across the following 5 HD disks from Berkeley Software Design Inc: - BSD/OS 1.1 Boot Disk 1, /boot and /bsd - BSD/OS 1.1 Boot Disk 2, Installation Utilities - BSD/OS 1.1 Kerberos, Kerberos Utilities - BSD/OS 1.1 Encryption, Encryption Utilities & Src - BSD/OS 1.1 EZ-Config, Configuration Tools What's missing from this set that would keep it from installing? Is there anything particularly interesting about it other than it appears to be the ancestor of the current Net/FreeBSD? Jeff From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 12 12:45:34 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > OT: From my street-racing days: the Javelin was not a bad little ride, > >properly set up, and I drove a few of them competitively. Holleys were > >always my first carb choice, Carters being 'okay' jugs, and then there > >Rochesters... yuck, poo! > > Then you had the Corvair's with thier 2-4 single barrel > Webbers...nice but tempermental to keep working right. I owned a couple of Corvairs back in the sixties, but I don't recall either being equipped with Weber carburetors. Bein a GM product, Rochesters seem infinitely more likely. - don > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 12 12:52:14 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Fwd: Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Here's a message I figured someone on the list might be able > to help with. I have a Dilog board in my MicroVAX II but don't know > enough about it to answer his question. > > Jeff His questions are pretty cryptic, but every ESDI controller that I have encountered has an onboard BIOS which includes a parameter identifying program (diagnostic?) and a formatting program that would also translate (usually) the parameters to ones acceptable to the computer. The BIOS address is normally jumper settable and can be found using DEBUG or similar utility and dumping the usual locations for such to see if there is readible text at that location. - don > >Sender: root@dd.vaz.tlt.ru > >Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:27:49 +0400 > >From: TOSA > >Reply-To: cav@b3339.dd.vaz.tlt.ru > >X-Accept-Language: en > >To: jhellige@earthlink.net > >Subject: Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board > > > >WE HAVE Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board > > > > HOW LOAD FIRMWARE RESIDENT FORMATTER/DIAGNOSTICS UTILITY ? > > > > > >Thanks > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 12 13:03:57 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI Transceivers (was Re: Apple LC550) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010312190357.15719.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > There's a couple AAUI transceivers for the PowerMac on ebay right now. I don't mean to be rude, but please re-read the following... > => (I'm looking to find one *without* resorting to eOverPay) I saw plenty on eBay. I only looked there to get an idea of what the used market looked like on them. As I said, I found genuine vendors with $10 units (two for $18 plus $4 shipping total) which beats the "buy it now" for $15 plus $5 shipping that's on eBay or the long, drawn out wait for auctions to end, etc. I am not an eBay shopper. I have participated in a couple of auctions. The prices always grew to higher than I cared to pay and I have never won one. As a result, I don't even bother anymore. I figured I'd ask here because I could find someone with a box of them gathering dust and strike a deal. Worst case, I drop $22 on a pair and be done with it, no auction necessary. -ethan -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Mar 12 13:06:53 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Fwd: Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010312110536.01983388@208.226.86.10> > > >WE HAVE Dilog D0686 ESDI controller board > > > > > > HOW LOAD FIRMWARE RESIDENT FORMATTER/DIAGNOSTICS UTILITY ? One of the switches on the board allows you to type : B DUA9: (or DUB9: etc depending on which MSCP controller it is) and it will boot into the resident firmware. If I ever find those faxed pages again I'll put them up on my site and let you know. --Chuck From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 12 13:10:11 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010312094611.47a7969c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > At 08:37 PM 3/11/01 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > > > >> I have disks for the hard card but I think they're for the original 20 > >> or maybe the 40 Mb card. Do you know if they'll work? I'd never heard of a > >> 80 Mb hard card. > > > >Joe, there was also a 127mb HardCard. I can send the files if you'd > >like. > > - don > > > > Don, > > Will the same files work for the other smaller hard cards? If so I'd > like a copy since I have a number of hard cards around that I've been > saving for future use. However I wasn't the one that originally asked for > the files, 'bear' stricklin" was the one that needed them. > > Thanks, > > Joe I am uncertain, Joe, and have no other HardCard to try it on. I'll email you the package and perhaps you can check that out. Oops! Sorry, Bear. - don > > > > >> I dug around and found two disks but I can't read them! I'll play with > >> them later and try to find out what's going on. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> At 09:03 PM 3/10/01 -0500, you wrote: > >> > > >> >I'm looking for a copy of the setup/install disk for a Plus HardCard II > >> >(80 MB if it makes a difference) or at least 'atdoshc2.sys' so I can use > >> >one of these two hardcards I've got in a system. > >> > > >> >'atdoshc2.sys' no longer seems available from Quantum's site. > >> > > >> >Can anybody help? > >> > > >> >ok > >> >r. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Mon Mar 12 13:13:21 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <3AAD01D1.8090200@olf.com> Message-ID: OK, may be I only don't know the people who are missing it ... mario On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > What makes you think nobody is missing it? > > Ram > > Mario Premke wrote: > > > Hi, > > may be an obscure question, but I wonder why the transputer died without > > anybody missing it ? > > Mario > > > > > From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Mon Mar 12 13:15:50 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <15021.1995.101831.192137@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > Eh? Mine works just fine. ;) > > -Dave McGuire > What kind of transputer is it - are there any good general links on this topic ?? mario From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 12 13:16:55 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: New 'puter joins the collection In-Reply-To: "Mike" "Re: New 'puter joins the collection" (Mar 12, 10:08) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010308212028.00b923e0@pacbell.net> <002501c0ab06$3ca9d350$27784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <10103121916.ZM9742@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 12, 10:08, Mike wrote: > From: Jim Battle > > Do you know if you have the original, or the Sorcerer II? > What's the difference between the two models? Externally, practically nothing. Internally, the Sorcerer II has somewhat different memory decoding, to accomodate 3 rows of 4116's instead of 2, and they're all socketed. There's a DIP switch to select type and number of banks, which was done by solder links on the original. The video timing is also different, and it's easier to get a stable picture at 50Hz on the Mk.II; one of the poles on the 4-way DIP switch controls US/UK setting. Some of the signals on the 50-way expansion interface are slightly different. There's an MEMORY OFF input so an external device can switch off the internal RAM. The RSET signal is derived slightly differently, too. The Mk.II has fixed the hardware bug in the RS232 (on the Mk.1, the gate signal to switch from cassette to RS232 was wrongly applied so the RS232 was forced to the wrong logic level when the cassette was selected). Some of the layout is a little different to accomadate the changes, the IC number has changed of course, and a few parts of the circuit are done with (parts of) different ICs. They're still the same clock speed (2.106 MHz), and (apart from the differences above) the same machine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 13:22:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! Message-ID: <01Mar12.142802est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I owned a couple of Corvairs back in the sixties, but I don't recall >either being equipped with Weber carburetors. Bein a GM product, >Rochesters seem infinitely more likely. I stand corrected...I gave up cars to get into computers, so it's been a while. I think I still have the factory shop manual for the AMC Rebel at home though, as well as enough Motor and Chiltons manuals to cover most anything between 1954 and 1973. Jeff From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Mar 12 13:56:17 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: REt: Transputer ... ? Message-ID: Our application for the transputer was switched over to DSP boards which were at the time more powerful. TI was pushing the DSP's and the ultrasound machines already used DSP's for signal processing. There was also a long delay between the earliest transputers and the more powerful ones. Our setup used 25MHz transputers. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From ss at allegro.com Mon Mar 12 13:54:21 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58796DE@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3AACB8ED.4683.EEC3FBE@localhost> re: > I HAVE copies of PC-DOS 1.00 and of PC-DOS 1.10 ... > Surely I can't be the only one here who had the first (1.00) version and > anxiously awaited the release of the second (1.10) one! I remember using 1.00, and the patch to "support" double sided drives. (When 1.10 came out, it wasn't compatible with the patch, so you had to work to get the data off your unofficial double sided drives :) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 12 14:17:27 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > first production release was 1.10? No, I have a copy of PC-DOS 1.0 as well as 1.1 and Compaq 1.11. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Mar 12 14:47:36 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? References: Message-ID: <3AAD35E8.2040600@olf.com> Same here. Mine works like a charm. As for good links, try mine :-) http://members.nbci.com/transputer This is the largest collection of transputer-based programs on the net (as far as I know) Ram Mario Premke wrote: > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > >> Eh? Mine works just fine. ;) >> >> -Dave McGuire >> > > What kind of transputer is it - are there any good general links on this > topic ?? > mario > > From marvin at rain.org Mon Mar 12 15:02:29 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? References: Message-ID: <3AAD3965.48AC87E@rain.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > I HAVE copies of PC-DOS 1.00 and of PC-DOS 1.10 > > The most visibly obvious difference was support for 2 sided drives. There > also were some patches, informally distributed, for 1.00 to use 2 sided > drives, where the second side would be seen by DOS as an additional drive. > > Surely I can't be the only one here who had the first (1.00) version and > anxiously awaited the release of the second (1.10) one! Fred, I have been looking for copies (or original) PC-DOS 1.0 disks since about 1985 or so and have never seen them. I did luck out and purchase a (still) shrinkwrapped version of PC-DOS 1.10 at TRW many years ago and have always been sorry I didn't take enough money down to buy more; they were $5.00 or so each :(. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Mar 12 12:42:34 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:06:42 PST." Message-ID: <200103121842.SAA16741@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Sellam Ismail said: > > Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the > first production release was 1.10? According to the Peter Norton Gude to the IBM PC 1st edition 1985:- Version Date Hardware change 1.00 8/04/81 Original PC model (single sided drive) 1.10 5/07/82 Double-sided diskette drive 2.00 3/08/83 XT Model (hard-disk drive) I remember trying v1-point-something and thinking that compared with LDOS on my TRS80 it seemed unbelievably primitive ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 12 15:14:10 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: BSD/OS 1.1 In-Reply-To: <01Mar12.134210est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 12, 2001 01:36:44 PM Message-ID: <200103122114.NAA07853@shell1.aracnet.com> > > We seem to have a bunch of Unix-types on here so I thought I'd pose a > question. Today, I came across the following 5 HD disks from Berkeley > Software Design Inc: > > - BSD/OS 1.1 Boot Disk 1, /boot and /bsd > - BSD/OS 1.1 Boot Disk 2, Installation Utilities > - BSD/OS 1.1 Kerberos, Kerberos Utilities > - BSD/OS 1.1 Encryption, Encryption Utilities & Src > - BSD/OS 1.1 EZ-Config, Configuration Tools > > What's missing from this set that would keep it from installing? Is > there anything particularly interesting about it other than it appears to be > the ancestor of the current Net/FreeBSD? Actually what you've got here is the commercial BSD varient. Of the top of my head I'd say it's from around '93-94. I'm guessing you're missing a CD-ROM, as you look to have enough there just to do a minimalist setup that would get you to where you can start the real install. Zane From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Mar 12 15:27:42 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: Re: Transputer ... ? (Mario Premke) References: <15021.1995.101831.192137@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15021.16206.884756.820212@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 12, Mario Premke wrote: > > Eh? Mine works just fine. ;) > > What kind of transputer is it - are there any good general links on this > topic ?? Mine is a T414-based ISA board. Take a look at http://members.nbci.com/transputer for lots of info. -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 12 15:18:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is the only computer list I can think of where arguing about a carburator problem posted by a virus is perfectly normal. We are special. From liste at artware.qc.ca Mon Mar 12 16:22:01 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <3AABED0F.550017BC@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: On 11-Mar-2001 Brian Roth wrote: > I only have one 6100. I have some Quadra 660's and Centris 610's in > the pile. I can get ahold of more 6100's from the guy next week if he > hasn't already sold them. Any DEC stuff to trade for one? A dead sexy VT220 ? :) -Philip From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Mar 12 16:23:54 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <977.471T2050T5876015optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 12 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > The x100 PPC series won't run NetBSD due to the Nubus architecture as well as > the lack of "open firmware". You can run Linux on most of them, although the port isn't stable yet. http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 17:39:53 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Need external floppy drive for a Grid Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312183953.330f4fde@mailhost.intellistar.net> I finally got my Grid 1535 working. Nice machine but it doesn't have a build in floppy drive. So I'm looking for an external floppy drive for it. Does anyone have anything like that laying around that they will part with? Or does anyone know if it's possible to wire up a standard floppy drive to the peripheral port on Grid. I took a guick look at the pinout and it looks like it won't be too difficult. I prefer a 1.44Mb drive but I'll take anything that I can get. Joe From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 16:37:15 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: BSD/OS 1.1 In-Reply-To: <200103122114.NAA07853@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200103122114.NAA07853@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Actually what you've got here is the commercial BSD varient. Of the top of >my head I'd say it's from around '93-94. I'm guessing you're missing a >CD-ROM, as you look to have enough there just to do a minimalist setup that >would get you to where you can start the real install. Thanks Zane, I'll take a look around and see if there's a matching CD anywhere then. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 12 13:18:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: from "Mario Premke" at Mar 12, 1 02:55:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1077 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010312/fc1b8c18/attachment.ksh From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Mar 12 16:52:45 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This is the only computer list I can think of where arguing about a > carburator problem posted by a virus is perfectly normal. We are special. Pfft. We're _damaged_. :) g. From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Mon Mar 12 17:01:58 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <200103121842.SAA16741@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <000201c0ab48$71fee8a0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> Talk was here about 10bT and 10b2 to AAUI adaptors. I have some transcievers like these, but, Dumb Me, I don't know what AAUI is. Is that Apple AUI? Does that mean that AUI transcievers can't work with Apples or is it really that you are supposed to call it AAUI instead of AUI all along? John A. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 17:52:44 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312185244.09979df4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Sellam, That's what I've been told and that's what I believe. However there was an auction on E-bay about a year ago of an unopened package that the seller claimed was DOS 1.0. I have the same package with the same part number and mine has a sticker on it that says "DOS 1.10". So I can't help wondering if their's didn't have a sticker that "accidently" came off. I wrote to the buyer and asked if it really was DOS 1.0 and he replied that he had not gotten the package yet but that he would check and let me know. However I never heard from him. I was told that there was a DOS 1.0 but that it was never sold or delivered to the public. But I do have some old disks that have about five or six files of MS DOS 1.0 . Joe At 08:06 AM 3/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Is it true that there was never a release of PC/MS-DOS 1.0, and that the >first production release was 1.10? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 17:56:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312185637.0997c92c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:03 AM 3/12/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: >> The earliest I've seen is 1.25 for the Sumicom System 330, but the machine >> wasn't 100% IBM compatible. It was a pretty neat machine though - I wish >> I could remember what I did with it. :) > >MS-DOS 1.25 appears to be the same as PC-DOS 1.10 > >Did ANY of the OEMS release MS-DOS 1.10? Yes, I think Zenith did for the Z-100. I think I have some of those disks here. IBM definitely relased DOS 1.10. I have the docs and disk for that. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 18:02:57 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Looking for--data on ProLog SBCs In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58796DA@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312190257.0997ddf6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Rich, You should definitely check with Steve Robertson on this. I think he's cornered the world's supply of Std bus cards AND their docs. Steve's on this list but I don't know if he saw your message. Joe At 10:46 AM 3/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > > I came across a small 4-slot cage with three STD BUS boards. One is >an 8085-based SBC (#7805), an I/O board of some sort (#7604). The other is a >PIO board from another manufacturer. > > Anyway, does anyone have any data on these boards? The Motorola Web >site (new owners of ProLog) doesn't mention these boards (probably because >of their age). > > Thanks. > >Rich > >========================== >Richard A. Cini, Jr. >Congress Financial Corporation >1133 Avenue of the Americas >30th Floor >New York, NY 10036 >(212) 545-4402 >(212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 18:06:02 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Plus HardCard II In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010312094611.47a7969c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312190602.47c72e84@mailhost.intellistar.net> Bear, I'm going out of town for the rest of the week but if you haven't gotten the drivers before I return, I will try to recover the data on my two driver disks. Failing that, I will install my hard cards in a machine and see if the drivers are on the hard drives. Remind me next week if you don't hear from me before then. Joe At 10:47 AM 3/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > >> >Joe, there was also a 127mb HardCard. I can send the files if you'd >> >like. >> > - don >> >> Will the same files work for the other smaller hard cards? If so I'd >> like a copy since I have a number of hard cards around that I've been >> saving for future use. However I wasn't the one that originally asked for >> the files, 'bear' stricklin" was the one that needed them. >> >> Joe > >Unfortunately, the 127 (I thought it was 105) MB model is a II XL which >does NOT use the same drivers. Somebody on list sent me a II XL disk >image, which I was unable to make work. The II XL stuff is still available >from Quantum's web site. > >Apparently, the atdoshc2.sys IS the same driver for the old 8-bit 20 and >40 MB hardcards (though at an older revision). > >According to a MS Knowledgbase article somebody sent me, version 1.31 is >for the 8-bit HardCards and version 1.4 is the desired version for the >16-bit HardCard IIs. I don't have any indication if the older version will >at least work with the newer card---the newer version is apparently needed >for proper operation with Windows. > >I still need atdoshc2.sys. (: > >ok >r. > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 18:10:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: <3AAD3965.48AC87E@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010312191059.47c7a26e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Marvin, I have some files for DOS 1.00. I can send them to you. There's only about 5 or 6 files. Joe At 01:02 PM 3/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >"Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: >> >> I HAVE copies of PC-DOS 1.00 and of PC-DOS 1.10 >> >> The most visibly obvious difference was support for 2 sided drives. There >> also were some patches, informally distributed, for 1.00 to use 2 sided >> drives, where the second side would be seen by DOS as an additional drive. >> >> Surely I can't be the only one here who had the first (1.00) version and >> anxiously awaited the release of the second (1.10) one! > >Fred, I have been looking for copies (or original) PC-DOS 1.0 disks since >about 1985 or so and have never seen them. I did luck out and purchase a >(still) shrinkwrapped version of PC-DOS 1.10 at TRW many years ago and have >always been sorry I didn't take enough money down to buy more; they were >$5.00 or so each :(. > From red at bears.org Mon Mar 12 17:04:46 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <000201c0ab48$71fee8a0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, John Allain wrote: > Does that mean that AUI transcievers can't work with Apples or is it > really that you are supposed to call it AAUI instead of AUI all along? AAUI is a kind of compact version of AUI which Apple popularized, if not invented. A few older Sun SBUS cards use a similar if not identical interface (the FSBE card, for example). I've never owned an FSBE to try it out. Anyway, where regular AUI uses a DE15 connector, AAUI uses... something else. I'm not sure what the nomenclature is to describe it. ok r. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 12 17:24:05 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <000201c0ab48$71fee8a0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> References: <000201c0ab48$71fee8a0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: >Talk was here about 10bT and 10b2 to AAUI adaptors. >I have some transcievers like these, but, Dumb Me, >I don't know what AAUI is. Is that Apple AUI? >Does that mean that AUI transcievers can't work with >Apples or is it really that you are supposed to >call it AAUI instead of AUI all along? Other than the connectors being different, I don't know how different electrically they are. The AAUI, as used on the PM 6100 and others, is about half the size of the standard AUI connector, as found on such network cards as the 3COM Etherlink series. My guess is that they probably aren't compatible though. I've got a couple of the AAUI pigtails, as well as a David Expressnet box that goes from the standard AUI to 10base-T. For flexibility, I actually like the AAUI design. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 12 17:24:23 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010312185244.09979df4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > Sellam, > That's what I've been told and that's what I believe. [That PC-DOS > 1.00 never existed] Please stop believing everything that you are told! I bought PC-DOS 1.00 when it came out. I USED PC-DOS 1.00 I continued to use PC-DOS 1.00 until 1.10 came out. Unless you are calling me a liar or delusional (Hmmm. an option), how can there be any doubt about whether PC-DOS 1.00 existed? > However there was > an auction on E-bay about a year ago of an unopened package that the seller > claimed was DOS 1.0. I have the same package with the same part number and > mine has a sticker on it that says "DOS 1.10". So I can't help wondering if > their's didn't have a sticker that "accidently" came off. I wrote to the > buyer and asked if it really was DOS 1.0 and he replied that he had not > gotten the package yet but that he would check and let me know. However I > never heard from him. > > I was told that there was a DOS 1.0 but that it was never sold or > delivered to the public. But I do have some old disks that have about five > or six files of MS DOS 1.0 . FALSE I purchased my PC-DOS copies from Computerland (authorized IBM peddler) and from IBM's retail product centers. I have a few unofficial early products, but my PC-DOS 1.00 copies were as "public" as it was possible to be. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 12 17:33:48 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Mar 12, 2001 06:04:46 PM Message-ID: <200103122333.PAA12197@shell1.aracnet.com> > AAUI is a kind of compact version of AUI which Apple popularized, if not > invented. A few older Sun SBUS cards use a similar if not identical > interface (the FSBE card, for example). I've never owned an FSBE to try it > out. I've got both, and IIRC, they're definitly different. The Sun cables if you find one are definitly worth picking up, BTW. I had a *hard* time finding one for my SparcBook. Zane From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Mar 12 18:21:11 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 References: Message-ID: <3AAD67F7.15B3CE0A@heathers.stdio.com> HMMMMMM...... Think I,ll pass on that one. I'll check for more Apple stuff this Fri and let you know what I find. Brian. liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > On 11-Mar-2001 Brian Roth wrote: > > I only have one 6100. I have some Quadra 660's and Centris 610's in > > the pile. I can get ahold of more 6100's from the guy next week if he > > hasn't already sold them. Any DEC stuff to trade for one? > > A dead sexy VT220 ? :) > > -Philip From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 12 17:45:02 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <000201c0ab48$71fee8a0$4d0301ac@intra.infousa.com> References: <200103121842.SAA16741@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: >Talk was here about 10bT and 10b2 to AAUI adaptors. >I have some transcievers like these, but, Dumb Me, >I don't know what AAUI is. Is that Apple AUI? >Does that mean that AUI transcievers can't work with >Apples or is it really that you are supposed to >call it AAUI instead of AUI all along? > >John A. AAUI is a tiny (miniture) connector found on a lot of Apple stuff with a <...> symbol. AUI is what many people think of as a Thick ethernet connector, but its really the "official" connection for a transceiver (10bt, 10b2, 10b5, or weird stuff like fiber). By the time Apple did the AAUI few people were wanting 10b5, and Apple never uses a "standard" connector anyway, so they came out with a tiny AAUI Apple AUI, and it is NOT electrically compatible with a AUI (you need a brick sized powered adapter to convert to AUI). AUI to 10bt adapters are still handy as many early devices had AUI and coax, and AUI to coax are handy as many newer devices are AUI and 10bt. From red at bears.org Mon Mar 12 17:46:36 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <200103122333.PAA12197@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > AAUI is a kind of compact version of AUI which Apple popularized, if not > > invented. A few older Sun SBUS cards use a similar if not identical > > interface (the FSBE card, for example). I've never owned an FSBE to try it > > out. > > I've got both, and IIRC, they're definitly different. The Sun cables if you > find one are definitly worth picking up, BTW. I had a *hard* time finding > one for my SparcBook. the connector I'm thinking of is physically the same as the AAUI connector and not at all like the 'AUI' connector on, say, an SS20, which is something like a 26-pin version of the compact 50-pin interface used for the SCSI interface on the same machine. Dunno if we're talking about the same thing or not. I've never seen the back of a SPARCbook, but I know this same 26-pin thing is used on the SPARCserver 1000, the SPARCclassic, and the SPARCstations 5, 20, and LX (though not always for ethernet). I've only seen the AAUI-looking job on SBUS ethernet cards. ok r. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 12 18:03:51 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010312185637.0997c92c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I thought that they were more common than disk sleeves. It would appear that my copy of PC-DOS 1.00 is "RAIR", "UNIKE", and "VALUBLE"! In original binder and slipcase, but no longer shrink-wrapped. The disk label says 1.00 Anyone want to buy it for $60 + S/H before I put it on e-bay and get the BIG bucks? Actually, maybe I should hang onto it and get rich on bar bets! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From fernande at internet1.net Mon Mar 12 18:29:29 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! References: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3AAD69E9.D1C02592@internet1.net> Joe! Why is that car not sitting in your garage?? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Joe wrote: > but I still have a '70 Dodge Challanger with a 440 > Six-Pak sitting in the side yard. > > Joe From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Mar 12 18:10:28 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Vax 6000 Website launched References: <200103121842.SAA16741@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <01b601c0ab52$0369b0a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Hi all, With some trepidation, but driven by the fact that these machines and their newer cousins, the 7000 series are starting to become more readily available. I have started a Web site to help those who wish to give one a good home. Not much there yet, and I will be soliciting for contributions from those who have 'been there, done that'. There is a small FAQ, and some pics of a 6000 cluster recovery, the rest of the headings will become links as the sections are completed. If you wish to contribute something, find a flaw, etc etc, please email me. (link on the web page). The Vax 6000 Website is at http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/ The site runs on a Vax 6000-440 (link to pic on web page). I have deliberately not used frames and tried to keep it as text friendly as possible for Lynx users. Enjoy. Kindest Regards Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 12 18:50:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! References: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AAD69E9.D1C02592@internet1.net> Message-ID: <000d01c0ab57$a6000ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> My neighbor has one of those, too, and he's had it so long he's built a special shed for it. He's been working on the thing for abuot 15 years ... I wonder if it's worth it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: Re: Carter AFB.. he he! > Joe! Why is that car not sitting in your garage?? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Joe wrote: > > but I still have a '70 Dodge Challanger with a 440 > > Six-Pak sitting in the side yard. > > > > Joe > > From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Mar 12 19:23:42 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Vax 6000 Website launched References: <200103121842.SAA16741@citadel.metropolis.local> <01b601c0ab52$0369b0a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3AAD769E.71540A1B@arrl.net> Geoff Roberts wrote: > > Hi all, > > With some trepidation, but driven by the fact that these machines and > their newer cousins, the 7000 series are starting to become more readily > available. I have started a Web site to help those who wish to give one > a good home. Not much there yet, and I will be soliciting for > contributions from those who have 'been there, done that'. There is a > small FAQ, and some pics of a 6000 cluster recovery, the rest of the > headings will become links as the sections are completed. > If you wish to contribute something, find a flaw, etc etc, please email > me. (link on the web page). > > The Vax 6000 Website is at http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax/ > > The site runs on a Vax 6000-440 (link to pic on web page). I have > deliberately not used frames and tried to keep it as text friendly as > possible for Lynx users. > > Enjoy. > > Kindest Regards > > Geoff Roberts > Computer Systems Manager > Saint Mark's College > Port Pirie, > South Australia > geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au > ICQ: 1970476 Good deal! I've noticed increased interest in the newsgroups for this series Vaxen of late. If I ever complete my remodeling and expand my hobby space here, this is the one big-iron I would like to acquire. -nick oliviero From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 12 19:44:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: <000d01c0ab57$a6000ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AAD69E9.D1C02592@internet1.net> Message-ID: Sure its worth it, a sheds a real handy thing to have. Gives the spiders a nice place to breed close to your house too. >My neighbor has one of those, too, and he's had it so long he's built a >special >shed for it. He's been working on the thing for abuot 15 years ... I >wonder if >it's worth it. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Chad Fernandez" >To: >Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 5:29 PM >Subject: Re: Carter AFB.. he he! > > >> Joe! Why is that car not sitting in your garage?? >> >> Chad Fernandez >> Michigan, USA >> >> Joe wrote: >> > but I still have a '70 Dodge Challanger with a 440 >> > Six-Pak sitting in the side yard. >> > >> > Joe >> >> From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 12 19:53:56 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Is this thing still alive? (testing...) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010312205356.013f3008@mail.30below.com> I haven't received any messages from this list since 2 Nov 00, and I've tried re-upping a few times, but it says that I'm already subbed. Did the list just die, or what? Lemme know via regular email, zmerch@30below.com Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Mar 12 20:12:11 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:11 2005 Subject: Is this thing still alive? (testing...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010312205356.013f3008@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Mar 12, 2001 08:53:56 PM Message-ID: <200103130212.TAA19210@calico.litterbox.com> Got your message. > > I haven't received any messages from this list since 2 Nov 00, and I've > tried re-upping a few times, but it says that I'm already subbed. > > Did the list just die, or what? > > Lemme know via regular email, > zmerch@30below.com > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 12 21:23:03 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: OT: testing again... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010312222303.013f3008@mail.30below.com> Testing again... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Mar 12 21:27:26 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: OT: New Subscription addresss... :-/ Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010312222726.013f3008@mail.30below.com> More testing - new address. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth, just trying to figure this out - haven't had a classiccmp fix in 4 months... :-( "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ip500 at home.com Mon Mar 12 22:25:08 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Dumpster find SUN Solaris Sparc Compiler C++ ver 4.0 Message-ID: <3AADA124.6380308F@home.com> A little off topic but: Found several of these SPARCompiler C++ ver 3.0 & 4.0 today in the dumpster of a defunct local technology Co. Brand new in the box w/instal manual and the CD is still shrink wrapped. Trash or treasure? Can they be installed and/or used without a license agreement? Thanks for any info, Craig From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 23:30:49 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Is this thing still alive? (testing...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010312205356.013f3008@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010313003049.345f7a42@mailhost.intellistar.net> Roger, Do you mean that you missed the great Carter AFB discussion? Joe At 08:53 PM 3/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >I haven't received any messages from this list since 2 Nov 00, and I've >tried re-upping a few times, but it says that I'm already subbed. > >Did the list just die, or what? > >Lemme know via regular email, >zmerch@30below.com > >Thanks, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 12 23:29:08 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: <3AAD69E9.D1C02592@internet1.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010313002908.26bf4810@mailhost.intellistar.net> Chad, IF I had a garage it would be full of computers! Joe At 07:29 PM 3/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >Joe! Why is that car not sitting in your garage?? > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Joe wrote: >> but I still have a '70 Dodge Challanger with a 440 >> Six-Pak sitting in the side yard. >> >> Joe > From SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es Tue Mar 13 00:26:43 2001 From: SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #538 References: <200103121509.JAA05887@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <001501c0ab86$94a6ca60$a5962a3e@ecv01> Hello. I'm searching a copy of IBM Topview (or the original program) to take or even buy. I have too one PDP-11/23 with this boards installed: * KDF11-B 5014313C M8189/DIGITAL * Q-BusMosMemory 5014500C M8067/DIGITAL * DQ614S153040 Rev F/DILOG * System Interface 11/03/ESI * 808836-05 Rev K/Datasystems Design I'd like to locate one PDP-11/23 mounting rack, some RL02 drive (and controller, I suppose), one old terminal like vt100 or similar, and the floppy stuff... but I suppose that could put it in motion with some more modern stuff like mfm disks, etc. I sincerelly like to hear some opinion or suggestion about this item, here in this mailing list or directly to my e-mail address. Thank you and Best Regards Sergio Pedraja From rdd at smart.net Tue Mar 13 00:42:06 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > This is the only computer list I can think of where arguing about a > carburator problem posted by a virus is perfectly normal. We are special. To get this back on topic, while looking at Holly's web site for cam specifications, although I didn't see a cam that I wanted---decided to put the same type of Crower cam back in (but I do like my Holley 750 carburator with the new type of power valve that doesn't get destroyed by a backfire! ...although the old 750 double-pumper that I had years ago seemed to give me more low-end power, and a 351C with 4V heads (can you say "huge ports"?) does needs a little help in that area. Found a new pair of Hooker headers there too!), I did notice something on their web site that was related to this list: engine control computers. Aren't there some engine control computers by now that are about 10 years old? Is anyone collecting the cars that have them in them and preserving them? :-) The disturbing thing though, was that Holley only mentions software being available for Microsoft Windoze which is used to modify their engine control systems. E.g., hook a laptop computer running Windoze to the computer in the car, via a serial port, and make adjustments via Holley's software on the Windoze PeeCee. Bletch! I wonder how many engines will detonate to death as a result of the timing being set to advance too much or how many people will end up stranded somewhere, etc. due to strance things that Windoze causes to happen to the software download? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 13 00:40:20 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? References: <3.0.1.16.20010312191059.47c7a26e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3AADC0D4.9A2DB21D@rain.org> Joe wrote: > > Marvin, > > I have some files for DOS 1.00. I can send them to you. There's only > about 5 or 6 files. One thing I would really love to have for the collection is one of the first working IBM PC computers running on DOS 1.0 on a SS drive (160K?)! If these files include the boot files, I would be most interested! I *think* the IBM PCs I have here all have the 360K disk drives but isn't much trouble to change them out. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Mar 13 01:11:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010313071106.79505.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Talk was here about 10bT and 10b2 to AAUI adaptors. > > Other than the connectors being different, I don't know how > different electrically they are. AFAIK, AAUI uses +5VDC and AUI calls for +12VDC to power the transceiver. If that is so (as in, if I can find a pinout for the AAUI), I was contemplating grabbing +12VDC from a disk connector and adding an AUI connector on the back of the Quadra 660AV and using one of my many 10BaseT AUI transceivers. OTOH, for ~$10 each, I can just take the lazy way out. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Mar 13 01:32:24 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? References: <3.0.1.16.20010312191059.47c7a26e@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AADC0D4.9A2DB21D@rain.org> Message-ID: <00d601c0ab8f$cfc8f2e0$0f9ab2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Looked through a bunch of disks and the earliest version of MS-DOS I could find was 1.13. From bobcaar at softhome.net Tue Mar 13 01:52:33 2001 From: bobcaar at softhome.net (Devon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: SCSI connectivity Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010313025233.007df4f0@pop.softhome.net> I have a HP parallel to SCSI box also, haven't tried it, or even looked for the drivers yet, but...it's there. I also have a parallel to IDE convertor which I use with a 2x CD-RW. The only drivers/software available for the interface/drive combo (in write mode) are for x86 *nix, and Windows 9x/NT4 and above. I have used it successfully at 2x on a Am486/40Mhz running 95b, so it is possible given the speed of the port/machine (at least a bidirectional mode supporting port is required; damn windows overhead). And all those companies officially selling parallel port writers (older microsolutions and HP drives come to mind) tell you they require minimum Pentium 133.....pah. I've seen up to 4x parallel port writers but I doubt my 486/the port would handle that speed (at least in bidirectional mode), as reading from the drive tops out at about 4x. I'd like to try the faster speed (4x), with a faster mode port, ECP maybe? and/or more ram (I'd like to max this machine out at 128MB, but 16MB 30pin SIMMs are expensive). I'd also like to try on linux (also on this machine), but, alas, I blew the parallel port while playing with the parallelport to ide driver-module, the daisychain was drawing too much power. I hate how everthing now is LSI, I don't want to get rid of the card (as it has fast VLB IDE), but LSI is impossible to repair. The chain was fine with CDRW, SyQuest cartridge drive, scanner, and printer, but adding a Xircom PEII NIC was too much. Oh well, still haven't found a replacement card after a couple of years.... T.H.x. Devon >Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:56:42 -0500 >From: Jeff Hellige >Subject: SCSI connectivity > > This isn't quite on topic but the info might help those who >need or want to connect SCSI items to older PC's. A few weeks back I >picked up a used Philips Omniwriter 26 CDRW to replace my flakey >Philips CDD2000. With it came quite an interesting looking cable >that allowed a standard SCSI peripheral to be connected to a parallel >port and the driver disks for Win 3.1, Win95, NT and 2000. Drivers >are also available for DOS and OS/2 and the cable provides for a >printer pass-thru so that a printer can remain plugged up to it as >well. It's called the 'Shuttle Connection'. It is an OEM item and >actually produced by SCM Microsystems. They do provide drivers for >it on thier website though it looks like it's one of thier older >items that may not be available any longer. > > Has anyone used one of these before? Granted the speed is >going to be limited by going through the parallel port, but it's an >easier solution than finding and installing an ISA/EISA/MCA SCSI card >for occasional use of a SCSI CD-ROM or some such item. > > Jeff > > >- -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > ----------------------------------------- bobcaar@cyberdude.com is going away soon. Please use bobcaar@softhome.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 13 01:48:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI In-Reply-To: <20010313071106.79505.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: While we are talking SCSI and weird, I'll just mention in one of the boxes around here I have some BusLogic VESA BT-747D SCSI boards, a internal 50 pin and floppy connector and a external diff SCSI mini thing. VESA is the double height connector, right? From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 13 03:46:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI References: Message-ID: <001301c0aba2$82ae8160$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Double-Height??? I think you may be confusing VESA and EISA. The VESA type of board has a normal-looking ISA (with the 62 and 36-pin connectors (dual-31 and dual-18) at the end of the board closest to the backof the PC box and a fine-pitch connector as on MCA and PCI at the other end. EISA has the wierd-looking extra-tall edge-connector at the "back" end of the board. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:48 AM Subject: VESA SCSI > While we are talking SCSI and weird, I'll just mention in one of the boxes > around here I have some BusLogic VESA BT-747D SCSI boards, a internal 50 > pin and floppy connector and a external diff SCSI mini thing. VESA is the > double height connector, right? > > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 13 04:50:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI References: Message-ID: <3AADFB65.AA8F4DD@internet1.net> Nope you have it backwards. Your BT-747D is an EISA card. Most people confuse them the opposite way, calling VESA, EISA, so your extra special :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike Ford wrote: > > While we are talking SCSI and weird, I'll just mention in one of the boxes > around here I have some BusLogic VESA BT-747D SCSI boards, a internal 50 > pin and floppy connector and a external diff SCSI mini thing. VESA is the > double height connector, right? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 13 06:02:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI In-Reply-To: <3AADFB65.AA8F4DD@internet1.net> References: Message-ID: >Nope you have it backwards. Your BT-747D is an EISA card. Most people >confuse them the opposite way, calling VESA, EISA, so your extra special >:-) > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Mike Ford wrote: >> >> While we are talking SCSI and weird, I'll just mention in one of the boxes >> around here I have some BusLogic VESA BT-747D SCSI boards, a internal 50 >> pin and floppy connector and a external diff SCSI mini thing. VESA is the >> double height connector, right? I guess it was a EISA mistake? ;) Just so I have this absolutely correct, the fingers are all on the end of the card with the metal bracket, and the contacts are as wide as ISA, but in a piano key fashion with alternate traces above or below the one next to it (the fat part of the contact) q q q b b b b finger area is about 7 inches long and 3/4" tall and has 6 notches dividing segments of the fingers. What sort of a system used EISA? From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 13 07:18:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI Message-ID: <01Mar13.082420est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >What sort of a system used EISA? It was an attempt by a number of manufacturers, including Tandy and Compaq, to extend the ISA bus out to 32bits while maintaining some form of backwards compatability and without using IBM's MCA bus. I believe it was used mostly in servers and other high-performance applications. Jeff From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Mar 13 07:25:48 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Dumpster find SUN Solaris Sparc Compiler C++ ver 4.0 In-Reply-To: <3AADA124.6380308F@home.com> from ip500 at "Mar 12, 2001 11:25:08 pm" Message-ID: <200103131325.f2DDPmr00544@bg-tc-ppp1684.monmouth.com> > A little off topic but: Found several of these SPARCompiler C++ > ver 3.0 & 4.0 today in the dumpster of a defunct local technology Co. > Brand new in the box w/instal manual and the CD is still shrink wrapped. > Trash or treasure? Can they be installed and/or used without a license > agreement? > Thanks for any info, Craig I've got V3, I'd love to get V4. You can get a 30 day try before buy license key for them from Sun. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 13 08:33:30 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.0? In-Reply-To: <3AADC0D4.9A2DB21D@rain.org> References: <3.0.1.16.20010312191059.47c7a26e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010313093330.23bf769e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Marvin, Yes, they are bootable. The files are on some disks that have the old Nevada Cobal and (I think) Fortran compilers. I'm going out of town for a few days but I'll make copies when I return. Go ahead and send me your address and I'll put them in the mail to you when I return. BTW Grumpy ol' Fred offered to make a copy of all of the DOS 1.00 files for me. He says that there's 38 files including the .BAS ones. You might want to get a copy for the stuff from him too. Joe At 10:40 PM 3/12/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Joe wrote: >> >> Marvin, >> >> I have some files for DOS 1.00. I can send them to you. There's only >> about 5 or 6 files. > >One thing I would really love to have for the collection is one of the first >working IBM PC computers running on DOS 1.0 on a SS drive (160K?)! If these >files include the boot files, I would be most interested! I *think* the IBM >PCs I have here all have the 360K disk drives but isn't much trouble to >change them out. > From bill at cs.scranton.edu Tue Mar 13 08:55:20 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Free to a good home Message-ID: I have a GEAC 8775 SMD Disk. It is large and heavy and it is free to anyone who can come and get it. I need the floor space in the computer room. Sadly, if I get no takers this disk will be dismantled and thrown in a dumpster piece by piece, but my boss wants the space back for more usable equipment. It is located in Scranton, PA. Any takers?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Mar 13 09:00:28 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: AAUI Message-ID: <20010313.090538.-344893.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:45:02 -0800 Mike Ford writes: > AUI to 10bt adapters are still handy as many early devices had AUI > and coax, and AUI to coax are handy as many newer devices are AUI and > 10bt. Not to mention the fact that *really* early devices (multibus ethernet adapters come to mind, along with DEQNA's, and other stuff) that are AUI *only*. I've waited a *long* time for prices on AUI<->10bT tranceivers to fall to reasonable levels so I could easily hook up such beasts. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 13 11:37:59 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? In-Reply-To: <3AADC0D4.9A2DB21D@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Marvin wrote: > One thing I would really love to have for the collection is one of the first > working IBM PC computers running on DOS 1.0 on a SS drive (160K?)! If these > files include the boot files, I would be most interested! I *think* the IBM > PCs I have here all have the 360K disk drives but isn't much trouble to > change them out. Around here, they are at least as common as copies of DOS 1.00. Where are you? Be sure that you get the 16-64K motherboard, NOT the 64-256K! And the 63 W power supply. The first PC that I bought from IBM had a BLACK power supply! I've only seen a few of those. The drive is a Tandon TM100-1. Some LATER drives had IBM embossed on the front panel; the early ones did not. IBM did not sell a cable for the cassette port, but the pinout matches RS, so their cable will do. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 13 11:44:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > This is the only computer list I can think of where arguing about a > > carburator problem posted by a virus is perfectly normal. We are [insert your opinion here] On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > computers. Aren't there some engine control computers by now that are > about 10 years old? FSOT: Bosch fuel injection ""computer"" from 1969 VW type III (squareback). working when removed; with some (not necessarily all) FI components and sensors Over 30 years old, and called a computer. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From marvin at rain.org Tue Mar 13 11:58:55 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? References: Message-ID: <3AAE5FDF.E837811@rain.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Be sure that you get the 16-64K motherboard, NOT the 64-256K! > And the 63 W power supply. The first PC that I bought from IBM had a > BLACK power supply! I've only seen a few of those. > The drive is a Tandon TM100-1. Some LATER drives had IBM embossed on the > front panel; the early ones did not. > IBM did not sell a cable for the cassette port, but the pinout matches RS, > so their cable will do. Thanks for the info (!) and I am in Santa Barbara. I have several 16-64K motherboards including (I think) one actually installed in the IBM PC. I have at least one of the black IBM Power Supplies, and was wondering where they fit in the general scheme of the PC; sounds like they were one of the first releases. I've been curious for many years but haven't received any info; did IBM ever release a cassette with the IBM name on it? This thread is the first I've heard of anyone actually having PC-DOS 1.0, and just goes to show there are a lot of knowledgeable people here! From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 13 12:12:15 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? In-Reply-To: <00d601c0ab8f$cfc8f2e0$0f9ab2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Looked through a bunch of disks and the earliest > version of MS-DOS I could find was 1.13. Which OEM is your 1.13? SOME of the differences from one OEM to another can prevent successfully using one company's MS-DOS on another's products, but most of the differences won't matter much. Prior to 5.00, MS-DOS was [theoretically] only available from the OEM manufacturer, although there was no shortage of gray-market copies. >From one manufacturer's version to another, there will be some minor differences in IO.SYS (for support of other drive types, etc.), and MODE.COM will be different. In some cases there may also be some changes in FORMAT.COM For example: Gavilan supported 8 and 16 line LCD screens and 3.5" drives with their own unique format before IBM (PC-DOS 3.20). Their IO.SYS and MODE.COM reflect those differences. BTW, 2.11 and 3.31 seem to be the most heavily customized versions. 1.25 seems to be an MS-DOS version of PC-DOS 1.10 By the time that 5.00 came out (5/91), MS-DOS machines that weren't completely compatible (ie: had any traces of originality) had been largely driven out of the market. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 13 12:44:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? In-Reply-To: <3AAE5FDF.E837811@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Marvin wrote: > Thanks for the info (!) and I am in Santa Barbara. I have several 16-64K > motherboards including (I think) one actually installed in the IBM PC. I > have at least one of the black IBM Power Supplies, and was wondering where > they fit in the general scheme of the PC; sounds like they were one of the > first releases. "One of". A friend who got her PC a few months before I got my first one, did NOT have a black power supply! > I've been curious for many years but haven't received any info; did IBM ever > release a cassette with the IBM name on it? Cassette, yes. Player/recorder, no. The "Guide to Operations" included "Diagnostics", which came on cassette. Should I dig out some of them? Is there demand for copies of the "Guide to Operations"??!? Wow. This list could save a lot of dump fees! > This thread is the first I've heard of anyone actually having PC-DOS 1.0, > and just goes to show there are a lot of knowledgeable people here! "Knowledgeable"??!? Naah. Tony, maybe. The rest of us were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. BTW, starting with version 2.00, and the implementation of DOS API function 30h, the version number ALWAYS had two digits to the right of the period, and was internally stored as if it were a two digit decimal number. There was never a version three point three nor a version six point two, but there WAS a version three point thirty and a version six point twenty! Function 30h on 3.3 gives 1Eh as the minor version (in AH) and on 6.2 gives 14h as the minor version. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Mar 13 12:53:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Dallas module battery replacement... Message-ID: <20010313185344.9699.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> > Organization: IRIT, Toulouse, France > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org, rhblake@bigfoot.com, elvey@hal.com, > ethan_dicks@yahoo.com, Technoid@cheta.net > Subject: Re: Dallas module battery replacement... > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Hi all! > > Just curious, but are are the prices of these Sun NVRAM timer chips > these days? Didn't notice they went up. I just bought some last year. Can't help you with a French connection, but I get mine from Mouser (www.mouser.com). I have, in an emergency, removed the old battery and added my own. All you have to is cut through the epoxy on the ends where the battery leads go down to the chip, not through the top or sides. I should take a picture and post the URL to the list, but I soldered a 9V battery clip to the exposed ends of the battery leads (which I severed from the top), superglued the wire to the case as a strain relief, then soldered a motherboard Lithium cell to the top of a former 9V battery and put it in a baggie to prevent it from shorting out on the motherboard or RFI shield in the case. Worked great, but for all the hassle, I'd rather pay a few bucks for a new NVRAM assembly. > Are the Dallas chips identical to the ST ones as concerns a Sun? I have no idea. There are some equivalents in the NVRAM FAQ. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Mar 13 12:51:21 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: A month of our own. In-Reply-To: <3AAE5FDF.E837811@rain.org> from Marvin at "Mar 13, 2001 09:58:55 am" Message-ID: <200103131851.KAA17029@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Anyone else glad that the holiday seasons are finally over? I had to put up with my wife decorating the house first in October for Halloween, November for Thanksgiving, December for Christmas, January for New Years Day, and February for Valentines day. I've been getting sick of it. So for March I've decided to take back the house. I've decreed it to be International Classic Computer Month. I've set up the most picturesque members of my collection in prominent places around the house. It's good not to have them relegated to the garage and a room no one ever sees. No part of the home should be without the beauty of a classic machine. I urge everyone to do the same. Now I just need to call my congresswomen and get it turned into and official national holiday.... Eric From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Mar 13 13:27:35 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? Message-ID: In a message dated 3/13/01 12:14:03 PM Central Standard Time, marvin@rain.org writes: << I've been curious for many years but haven't received any info; did IBM ever release a cassette with the IBM name on it? >> I actually have a diagnostic cassette I found once whilst digging through a computer junk heap at a thrift store. Have not checked to see if it works yet, though. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Mar 13 13:45:13 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: A month of our own. In-Reply-To: <200103131851.KAA17029@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> "from Eric J. Korpela at Mar 13, 2001 10:51:21 am" Message-ID: <200103131945.NAA14598@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > I urge everyone to do the same. Now I just need to call my congresswomen and > get it turned into and official national holiday.... > I hate to break this to you, but march is Womens history month, or something like that. and of course february was black history month. I just hope i live long enough to see White Men honored for something. Something thats not taken in a negative context. -Lawrence LeMay From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue Mar 13 14:25:42 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > This is the only computer list I can think of where arguing about a > > > carburator problem posted by a virus is perfectly normal. We are > [insert your opinion here] > > > On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > computers. Aren't there some engine control computers by now that are > > about 10 years old? > > FSOT: Bosch fuel injection ""computer"" from 1969 VW type III > (squareback). working when removed; with some (not necessarily all) FI > components and sensors > > Over 30 years old, and called a computer. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > The D-jetronic system on my old 2.0L 914's had an analog computer, actually. I still have a spare somewhere. I opened one up one time and it was pretty much all discrete components- transistors in op-amp circuits, etc. The biggest problem with these systems were various sensors (the manifold pressure sensor mainly), trigger contacts in the distributor, etc. failing. None of these parts were cheap from Bosch or the Porsche dealer, either. A lot of people just ripped all that out and installed dual 48IDA's, but when it was running right, the multiport injection made just as much if not more power, and you could get close to 40 mpg. cruising at 90-100 on the interstate. Automobile Atlanta in Marietta GA stills sells this stuff. They have whole cars even. I always squeal like a stuck pig at George's prices, but they're actually pretty reasonable, considering the amount of storage he's got in them by now. To take this back off topic, when are we likely to see a niche market for restoring old computers, "hot-rodding" them, etc. on a commercial level? Or will we ever? I know nobody here wants to have anything to do with dealers, forking out the loot, etc. but if you're looking for old car parts, they are usually pretty easy to find if they exist. And if not, someone will make them if there's enough interest. That *could* be a problem with IC's and PCB's, but most of the rest of the components of old machines could be easily reproduced in a modest shop. jbdigriz From peter at joules.org Tue Mar 13 14:56:40 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > I am guessing here, but I think the transputer did not sell well because > it was somewhat mismarketed by Inmos. They sold it as a building block > for parallel computers, and it's a well-known fact that many real-world > problems don't parallelise at all easily. So parallel computers were not > that widely used. > I assume that this is the 'supercomputer in a suitcase' about which New Scientist wrote at the time of the launch of the transputer is it. From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 13 15:00:17 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI References: Message-ID: <3AAE8A61.536CA3B1@internet1.net> Servers mainly. ALR, Unisys, Compaq, even IBM used it along side PCI. I have a Unisys 486 server that is EISA. One of my SCSI cards, unused at the moment, is the SE version od the bt-747. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike Ford wrote: > What sort of a system used EISA? From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 13:55:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: A month of our own. In-Reply-To: <200103131851.KAA17029@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > Anyone else glad that the holiday seasons are finally over? I had to > put up with my wife decorating the house first in October for > Halloween, November for Thanksgiving, December for Christmas, January > for New Years Day, and February for Valentines day. I've been getting > sick of it. She missed St. Patrick's Day. What's her e-mail address so I can remind her and continue to annoy you? :) > So for March I've decided to take back the house. I've decreed it to > be International Classic Computer Month. I've set up the most > picturesque members of my collection in prominent places around the > house. It's good not to have them relegated to the garage and a room > no one ever sees. No part of the home should be without the beauty of > a classic machine. I always imagined my Burroughs adding machine with the glass beveled sides revealing the inner-workings being mounted on a nice wooden pedestal somewhere in my living room, with a couple other antique adding machines lining the bookshelves and whatnot. For good measure, I'll frame the signed copies of Konrad Zuse prints I got from Germany and mount them on the walls :) > I urge everyone to do the same. Now I just need to call my > congresswomen and get it turned into and official national holiday.... Make sure to tell your wife about Easter in April, Memorial Day in May, Father's day in June, Independence Day in July, and, hey, August has no real holidays of merit! We should declare a day in August as Classic Computer Day. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 14:00:03 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote: > To take this back off topic, when are we likely to see a niche market > for restoring old computers, "hot-rodding" them, etc. on a commercial > level? Or will we ever? I know nobody here wants to have anything to > do with dealers, forking out the loot, etc. but if you're looking for > old car parts, they are usually pretty easy to find if they exist. And > if not, someone will make them if there's enough interest. That > *could* be a problem with IC's and PCB's, but most of the rest of the > components of old machines could be easily reproduced in a modest > shop. It won't happen, at least not amongst "normal" people (I guess which means it may happen for persons on the ClassicCmp list). You can drive an old car really fast (perhaps even faster than more modern cars). Old computers are slow-assed beasts. Sure you'll pull them out from time to time to play classic old games, but I don't know that you'd necessarily be hot-rodding them, unless of course you'd be boosting their abilities for better graphics, sound, nice joysticks, bigger displays, etc. Ok, so I backtrack. Someday we very well may be hot-rodding old computers to have that bigger/better/badder gaming experience that we missed in our younger days due to lack of money or whatnot :) Another stream-of-conciousness post from yours truly. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 13 15:34:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Transputer ... ? In-Reply-To: from "Peter Joules" at Mar 13, 1 08:56:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 349 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010313/db730a2d/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Mar 13 16:41:28 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Dunno what was wrong - but it works now! (And Vax question) In-Reply-To: <200103130350.UAA19515@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3.0.1.32.20010312222726.013f3008@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010313174128.014163a0@mail.30below.com> Just for folks that wanna hear what went on: The mailing list stopped sending me mail - I just thought it was another list fubar, and the xmas holidays were *way**beyond**stressful* for me, so I didn't have a chance to check things out until yesterday. I have a secondary email address at 30below.com, so I subbed that mail - it still didn't help. Finally, I subbed my yahoo.com email account that I never use, so I figured at least some mail beats no mail... and guess what? The list started sending me *triples* - my regular email account, my secondary local account, and my yahoo.com account all started working again! Now is that crazy, or what? Now for my question: I'm looking to install NetBSD 1.5 on my vax at home (no, I'm not wiping VMS - I have a secondary drive) because as of right now, I have no VMS documentation. I have the documentation CD, but AFAICT, nothing but Vax/VMS can read the darned thing! :-( Can the dox CD be read under NetBSD 1.5 for Vax? (So finally, I can actually start *using* my uVax 3100/m38)... [[ a catchup for my problem: I have the 2Mbyte 8-plane gfx board & 19-inch monitor (which is sweet) but now VMS doesn't know kind of terminal it's running (IIRC, it thinks it's an LA36, but don't quote me) and most utilities (including every text editor I've tried) won't run because of the non-standard termtype... ]] Anywho, glad I'm back & hope everyone had a happy set of holidayz whilst I was incommunicado... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 13 16:49:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: CC40 Message-ID: <200103132249.OAA02812@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Well, I got the CC40 RS-232 adaptor and "solid state" cartridges in. Fun stuff, I'm going to write some interfacing stuff between the C128 and the CC40 this evening so the C128 can be its "network file server". -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! ------------------------------------ From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Mar 13 17:09:07 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC & DOS 1.0 Message-ID: <3AAE5433.25366.1B04C1F@localhost> I've been contacted by someone writing an article about the PC and DOS 1.0. He wants someone with the PC and DOS 1.0 to answer some questions and try out some tests for him. I have the PC but don't have DOS 1.0. With the recent talk of DOS 1.0 going on around here I offered to see if someone here had both and might be interested in helping him out. If so email me off list and I'll give you his contact info. Or you can send me a copy of DOS 1.0 and I'll try it. Anyone here who can help out? ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 13 17:15:23 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? In-Reply-To: <3AAE5FDF.E837811@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Marvin wrote: > > > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > Be sure that you get the 16-64K motherboard, NOT the 64-256K! > > And the 63 W power supply. The first PC that I bought from IBM had a > > BLACK power supply! I've only seen a few of those. > > The drive is a Tandon TM100-1. Some LATER drives had IBM embossed on the > > front panel; the early ones did not. > > IBM did not sell a cable for the cassette port, but the pinout matches RS, > > so their cable will do. > > Thanks for the info (!) and I am in Santa Barbara. I have several 16-64K > motherboards including (I think) one actually installed in the IBM PC. I > have at least one of the black IBM Power Supplies, and was wondering where > they fit in the general scheme of the PC; sounds like they were one of the > first releases. > > I've been curious for many years but haven't received any info; did IBM ever > release a cassette with the IBM name on it? > > This thread is the first I've heard of anyone actually having PC-DOS 1.0, > and just goes to show there are a lot of knowledgeable people here! ...or a lot of pack-rats, depending on how you want to look at it! - don From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Mar 13 17:19:21 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: A month of our own. References: Message-ID: <005a01c0ac14$092c5e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:25 AM Subject: Re: A month of our own. > Make sure to tell your wife about Easter in April, Memorial Day in May, > Father's day in June, Independence Day in July, and, hey, August has no > real holidays of merit Long Tan? 18th. Strictly speaking not a gazetted holiday (though I understand that may change) but the Vietnam Vets around here wouldn't appreciate it. Besides it's my birthday.. ;^) > We should declare a day in August as Classic Computer Day. First, does anyone know the anniversary date of the release of something significant to the classic community? The first PDP? First Vax? (Not the pc please!) That might be a better choice than a random pick perhaps. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 16:19:20 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: CC40 In-Reply-To: <200103132249.OAA02812@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Well, I got the CC40 RS-232 adaptor and "solid state" cartridges in. Fun Me too! I got my batch of a couple CC40's, the RS232 box, Modem box, and a bunch of carts. What a sweet little machine :) I'm glad to finally be able to check this off the list of the few things I have yet to collect ;) > stuff, I'm going to write some interfacing stuff between the C128 and the > CC40 this evening so the C128 can be its "network file server". Sounds like a terrific exhibit for VCF 5.0! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 13 17:45:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >BTW, 2.11 and 3.31 seem to be the most heavily customized versions. >1.25 seems to be an MS-DOS version of PC-DOS 1.10 Since we're on the subject of differences between DOS versions, does anyone know when the Zenith version of MS-DOS stopped supporting the Z-100 series? I've got a few Zenith-specific versions here, including 1.25, 2.00, 3.21, and 3.3+. The 1.25 and 2.00 state that it is for the "Z-100 PC series" and I've used the 3.21 and 3.3+ with the Z-248. Zenith 3.3+ is interesting because it supports partitions larger than 32MB and did so before the release of PC-DOS 4.0. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From r.stek at snet.net Tue Mar 13 17:52:45 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:12 2005 Subject: Speaking of ProLog equipment.... Message-ID: In the past year I have been down four dead-ends in my search for a manual for a ProLog M822 8080 analyzer. I've been in contact with three former employees and the oldest living former ProLog technician. So.... can anyone on the list help with a copy? I think Jim Willing needs a copy too. (Sellam - have you stumbled across yours?) Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 13 18:18:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: IBM PC & DOS 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3AAE5433.25366.1B04C1F@localhost> Message-ID: Already done. He just needed to know how long it takes to boot (7-9 seconds PLUS the POST time), and the memory requirements (it'll run in 16K, but programs larger than 1K can't load) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, David Williams wrote: > I've been contacted by someone writing an article about the PC and > DOS 1.0. He wants someone with the PC and DOS 1.0 to answer > some questions and try out some tests for him. I have the PC but > don't have DOS 1.0. With the recent talk of DOS 1.0 going on > around here I offered to see if someone here had both and might be > interested in helping him out. If so email me off list and I'll give you > his contact info. Or you can send me a copy of DOS 1.0 and I'll try > it. Anyone here who can help out? > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > You can learn to like the life you live > or live the life you like. > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 13 18:21:13 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: CC40 In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Mar 13, 1 02:19:20 pm" Message-ID: <200103140021.QAA10314@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > stuff, I'm going to write some interfacing stuff between the C128 and the > > CC40 this evening so the C128 can be its "network file server". > > Sounds like a terrific exhibit for VCF 5.0! :) *If* I can get the weekend off. I'm on surgical service all August and September. It would be just my luck that we'd be forced to attend on some horrific cardiothoracic procedure or some such on the Friday I'd need to drive up north. Actually, I was thinking of maybe doing a "notable portables" exhibit. I've got two 95LXes, the 8201A, the CC40, the PC-4, the DG One (although that's not really too interesting), and of course that monstrous SX-64. And who said the TS-1000 couldn't count as a portable either? ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence. -- George Bernard Shaw ---- From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 13 18:23:21 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: A month of our own. In-Reply-To: <005a01c0ac14$092c5e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Besides it's my birthday.. ;^) > > We should declare a day in August as Classic Computer Day. > First, does anyone know the anniversary date of the release of something > significant to the classic community? > The first PDP? First Vax? (Not the pc please!) That might be a better > choice than a random pick perhaps. My notes say the PC was 8/11/1981 PC-DOS 1.0 is dated 8/4/1981 Looks like your birthday wins out. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 13 19:31:36 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 Message-ID: <3AAEC9F8.CCE3F501@internet1.net> I got my PDP11/53, but I can't get it to do anything. I loaded Tera-Term on my IBM Model 80, to use as my terminal. I dug out a serial cable, and bought a gender changer to hook the two computers up. What could I be doing wrong... I am not getting anything! I see lights on the cards, but nothing on the screen. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 18:34:52 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Vintage DOS PC circa 1985 Honeywell available (fwd) Message-ID: Here's someone with an old Honeywell PC clone looking for a new home. Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: earlbabt@mninter.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:03:19 -0600 From: Earl Thomas Subject: Vintage DOS PC circa 1985 Honeywell available I have a vintage personal computer in working condition with all cables, a keyboard, display and impact printer all from the same period and bought to work together. The CPU is an IBM clone manufactured for sale through Honeywell Information Systems (naturally Honeywell would not utilize IBM since they were in direct competition with IBM for mainframe sales. If your group has an interest in this machine I would donate the entire set. For more information,I can be contacted by telephone at (952) 835-2628. My email address is earlbabt@mninter.net I look forward to your reply. Earl Thomas --- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 18:42:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: A month of our own. In-Reply-To: <005a01c0ac14$092c5e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Geoff Roberts wrote: > First, does anyone know the anniversary date of the release of something > significant to the classic community? > The first PDP? First Vax? (Not the pc please!) That might be a better > choice than a random pick perhaps. How about Chuck Babbages b-day? December 26, 1792. Too close to Jesus :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 18:43:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Speaking of ProLog equipment.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Bob Stek wrote: > In the past year I have been down four dead-ends in my search for a manual > for a ProLog M822 8080 analyzer. I've been in contact with three former > employees and the oldest living former ProLog technician. > > So.... can anyone on the list help with a copy? I think Jim Willing needs > a copy too. > > (Sellam - have you stumbled across yours?) Sorry. I looked and looked. I found the actual machine, but it lacked the manual (or was it, I found the machine, but it was a different model number?) Anyway, no dice over here, my friend. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 18:45:34 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: CC40 In-Reply-To: <200103140021.QAA10314@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > *If* I can get the weekend off. I'm on surgical service all August and > September. It would be just my luck that we'd be forced to attend on > some horrific cardiothoracic procedure or some such on the Friday I'd > need to drive up north. Ok, in honor of Cameron, I'll just mention now that the dates for VCF 5.0 are September 15/16 :) Specific details to come. Still working on VCF East so please don't despair, you easterly folks. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Mar 13 20:23:47 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: T series adapter card list Message-ID: <00d601c0ac2d$cd6aacc0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> I am attempting to compile a list of the Txxx cards commonly found in 6000 class machines. I have info on quite a few, but either sketchy or meaningless descriptions of some and a cryptic name or even nothing for others. I seem to recall an online database of these, but I am unable to find it in any of my bookmarks or even in my email archive. I am currently searching the Digital/Compaq sites, but not finding much of use so far. Several resellers list the cards by number and some even have descriptions, but I was hoping for something more complete. For instance, an XMI 32Mb ram card is a T2014XX where XX is a 2 letter suffix detailing (I think) the speed of the ram and therefore it's suitability for a particular model. A full explanation of what these mean would be good. Any help appreciated, acknowledgements given etc. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From Glenatacme at aol.com Tue Mar 13 20:27:13 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? Message-ID: I've just returned from the annual ZX-TEAM meeting in Dietges, Germany, and I must say this 90-member international users group is doing some astounding things. I saw lots of ZX81s with full-sized LCD displays, AT keyboards, hard drives, floppy drives, scanners, modems, and 1 MB memory expansions. Some folks were using ZX81s to control RC devices (such as robots), and CNC machine tools. The TEAM now has a 24-hour dial-up BBS, running on a ZX81. Also demonstrated was a nifty C compiler which runs on Windows-based machines and which produces compiled ZX81 code. All in all it was pretty mind-boggling, and well worth the time and money I spent to attend the meeting. Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". Now, I don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please explain to me how the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the imagination, win the prize in the "least expandable" category???? Glen 0/0 From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Mar 13 21:02:40 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 In-Reply-To: References: <200103140021.QAA10314@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010313190100.022bc3a0@agora.rdrop.com> At 04:45 PM 3/13/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Ok, in honor of Cameron, I'll just mention now that the dates for VCF 5.0 >are September 15/16 :) > >Specific details to come. Still working on VCF East so please don't >despair, you easterly folks. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Oooooooo! A date! Think this is about the earliest that I've seen one announced so far! I'm going to hold you to this you know! Travel planning and all... B^} -jim jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Mar 13 21:16:01 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Classic Computer month In-Reply-To: <005a01c0ac14$092c5e80$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> "from Geoff Roberts at Mar 14, 2001 09:49:21 am" Message-ID: <200103140316.VAA16677@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > > We should declare a day in August as Classic Computer Day. > > First, does anyone know the anniversary date of the release of something > significant to the classic community? > The first PDP? First Vax? (Not the pc please!) That might be a better > choice than a random pick perhaps. > It was August of 1881, when Dr. Billings first suggested to Herman Hollerith that there ought to be a machine for doing the purely mechanical work of tabulating population and similar statistics. Which could be considered the dawn of the modern computer age. -Lawrence LeMay From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 13 20:23:31 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! Message-ID: <000201c0ac3c$1fcb0d30$2575cb97@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >You can drive an old car really fast (perhaps even faster than more modern >cars). Old computers are slow-assed beasts. I'm surprized at you. Many of those old slow machines were faster if byy virtue of not having four tonnes of nastiness grafted to them. Then again, a NS* horizon with static ram and a 10mhz Z80 does get out of its way. >I don't know that you'd necessarily be hot-rodding them, unless of course >you'd be boosting their abilities for better graphics, sound, nice >joysticks, bigger displays, etc. Feh, PCs are good gamers and all but if I want a good solid machine for real work it may be far from my first choice. Better is relative. ;) Allison From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Mar 14 00:29:13 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Need Altos 8600 Software Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010313222913.006973b0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Does anyone have a copy of an MP/M, CP/M, or XENIX boot disk for the Altos model 8600-12A? Don Maslin doesn't have what I need. Maybe the archivists at Trailing-edge, or Sellam's VCF archive has something. It has an 8" 20 MB HD and an 8" 512 K FD (SSDD Shugart 80?). Unfortunately it is unable to boot off the HD. I receive a 'record not found' error. I verified that the FD works by borrowing a friend's IMSAI-DOS disk and attempting to boot from it. After reseting and entering the ROM monitor, I found 'IMSAI' in the RAM. I have some 8" SSSD disks I can send to copy the software on. Any other Altos 8600 - related software, such as diagnostics and client software would be much appreciated. This computer, built in 1983 as a server, was much more powerful than the PC or the XT. It has 1 MB of ECC RAM (11 bits per byte), an 8086 CPU, memory protection, 3 - 8089s for interrupts, and several Z-80s for serial I/O. It has expansion ports for 8 serial devices, a parallel device, 2 Multibus units, a tape drive and a hard drive. Damn, this must have cost a lot at the time! I'd like to see how this performs compared to other micros I have. Thanks in advance for your help, Edwin Davis, CA From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 13 19:32:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <20010313185344.9699.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010314063222.KZJJ20895.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:53:44 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: Fwd: Re: Dallas module battery replacement... > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I have, in an emergency, removed the old battery and added my own. All you > have to is cut through the epoxy on the ends where the battery leads go down Snip > -ethan A plea: To Ethan and others who bypassed their dallas or clones modules then wired to fresh lithium battery. *Please,* snap pictures of your mods and post it on web somewhere to see what it is like. Because I have yet to cut into small pile of modules that I have. FYI: Some chinese dallas clones didn't have potting compound! I was able to fix one by prying it open, drill two holes in shell, yanked the old tiny coin and wired it through that holes to battery CR2032 holder on top of shell. :-) These modules came from pcchips motherboards. Ugh. Cheers, Wizard From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 13 23:59:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > I've just returned from the annual ZX-TEAM meeting in Dietges, > Germany, and I must say this 90-member international users group is > doing some astounding things. I saw lots of ZX81s with full-sized LCD > displays, AT keyboards, hard drives, floppy drives, scanners, modems, > and 1 MB memory expansions. Some folks were using ZX81s to control RC Hate to be the blasphemer on CC but...why? > Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". > Now, I don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please > explain to me how the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the > imagination, win the prize in the "least expandable" category???? Well, unless you count the fanatical hacking being done by the ZX-TEAM dudes, it really isn't :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 00:01:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010313190100.022bc3a0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, James Willing wrote: > Oooooooo! A date! Think this is about the earliest that I've seen one > announced so far! We're working hard to make the VCF Bigger, Better, Faster!!! > I'm going to hold you to this you know! Travel planning and all... B^} It's a done deal, dude! I may even already have my first speaker (well, OK, second I guess since Jim, the Official VCF Celebrity, is already automatically confirmed :) > The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. What happened? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 00:11:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: <000201c0ac3c$1fcb0d30$2575cb97@ajp166> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >You can drive an old car really fast (perhaps even faster than more > modern > >cars). Old computers are slow-assed beasts. > > I'm surprized at you. Many of those old slow machines were faster if byy > virtue > of not having four tonnes of nastiness grafted to them. Who knows what computers will be like in 10-20 years. Will they have any semblance to what we consider a computer today? A box with a keyboard and a monitor, with a mouse and speakers? Computers of the future may make the ones we use today or even 20 years ago seem like using a feather and ink to write letters. Know what I mean? That's all I was saying. > >I don't know that you'd necessarily be hot-rodding them, unless of > course > >you'd be boosting their abilities for better graphics, sound, nice > >joysticks, bigger displays, etc. > > Feh, PCs are good gamers and all but if I want a good solid machine for > real work it may be far from my first choice. Better is relative. ;) I had the Apple ][ in mind when I wrote this :) I remember what it was like having crappy joyticks, no color monitor, etc. When I got older and could go out and buy better stuff for my //e I remember how nice it was to have a bitchin joystick and a nice composite color display. It made all the difference with games like Rescue Raiders, and some games you couldn't play without color (Gumball by Broderbund being one example :) I had a real hot-rodded Apple //e. In my younger, nerdier days I used to call it my Power Demon. It had every slot filled. Slot 1: Orange Micro Grappler+ 64K buffered parallel printer card Slot 2: Apple Super Serial Card Slot 3: Applied Engineering Transwarp 3.3Mhz accelerator Slot 4: Mountain Clock Slot 5: Applied Engineering RAMfactor (1MB memory expansion) Slot 6: Disk ][ Controller Slot 7: Sider Hard Drive Controller Aux. : Microsoft Premium SoftCard //e (Z80 coprocessor for CP/M) It also had a 20MB Sider ][ hard drive, a Duodisk, and an Apple Color Composite Monitor //e, a C&H Joystick, an Imagewriter II printer (color). The only downside was a crappy 2400bps modem. But man, that was my baby, the Power Demon! I still have it set up in my spare room. I boot it up from time to time to access old files and play old games, like Wizardry and Rescue Raiders :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 02:02:09 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? References: Message-ID: <004f01c0ac5d$16e4c000$a49eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Looked through a bunch of disks and the earliest > > version of MS-DOS I could find was 1.13. > > Which OEM is your 1.13? > SOME of the differences from one OEM to another can prevent successfully > using one company's MS-DOS on another's products, but most of the > differences won't matter much. > Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer - proprietary format I believe From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 02:06:20 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 References: Message-ID: <008d01c0ac5d$a7ec6f80$a49eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. > > What happened? > I think it's relocated, try: http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw/ From james at cs.york.ac.uk Wed Mar 14 04:22:18 2001 From: james at cs.york.ac.uk (James Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <20010314063222.KZJJ20895.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On 14 Mar, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > A plea: > > To Ethan and others who bypassed their dallas or clones modules then > wired to fresh lithium battery. *Please,* snap > pictures of your mods and post it on web somewhere to see what it is > like. Because I have yet to cut into small pile of modules that I > have. http://www.jfc.org.uk/img/piggyback.jpg not the best picture in the world, but you get the gist. -- J.F.Carter http://www.jfc.org.uk/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 14 04:12:11 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:27:13 EST." Message-ID: <200103141012.KAA17272@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Glenatacme@aol.com saud: > Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". Now, I > don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please explain to me how > the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the imagination, win the prize in > the "least expandable" category???? > Quite! I've got one that has 17k RAM, 6 8-bit i/o ports, 4 relay outputs an 8-channel 8-bit analog to digital board, a proper keyboard and runs multi-tasking windowing Forth in ROM...that's expandable enough for me. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Mar 14 07:28:43 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Manuals on eBay? References: <984146142.3aa8e0de5af65@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AAF720A.28272012@idirect.com> >Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Before I bid on some of these PDP-11 manuals on eBay, I thought it would > be prudent to inquire about them here. These ones that have initial > bids of $15, $19, or more -- is that a good price, or would I be getting > ripped off? > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu Jerome Fine replies: Since I am writing this from personal experience, I suggest that most, probably all of the PDP-11 manuals are over-priced. Since I have a copy of the majority of these manuals, I can say that I have looked at only a few over the last few decades. About the only manual really worth having is a computer and memories manual which usually provides an excellent description of the PDP-11 instruction set. Another manual that is helpful is one which provides a description of the wire wraps needed for any boards that you do have such as a DLV11-J. Otherwise, although they are of interest, I have not found them to even be worth the cost of shipping. Which operating system do you use on the PDP-11? That manual set is worth while if you want to know the operating system in detail. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 14 07:55:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Garage Sale! So Cal this Sat Message-ID: Saturday, March 17th the garage of wonders* opens it door to the public. I live in the Old Chapman Townhomes in Orange, CA and about once a year they let us have a garage sale, and This Saturday at 7AM til noon or so is IT. My garage is FULL of neat mac stuff, with a couple 578 all in ones just added today. If you are within driving distance, and need a monitor or any kind of mac netorking or goodie, email me or stop by. I'll will be posting more completely soon, but I wanted to let people know its coming asap. From greg at ciswired.com Wed Mar 14 08:54:31 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Questions on a couple PDP-11 boards (ABLE/AVIV) Message-ID: I have an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS board, which I believe is a Pertec formatted TS11 interface. I also have an ABLE 10412-0 QBUS board, which I believe is some kind of UNIBUS->QBUS bridge. Naturally I've got absolutely no documentation on either. I've sent email to both AVIV and ABLE but haven't heard anything back. I'd like to use one or the other to help bootstrap a PDP-11/44 that I just got running last night. Plan 1 is to use the AVIV to interface to my existing DigiData 9-track drive. However, the DigiData uses 49-pin ribbon cables while the AVIV seems to want 59-pin cables. Plan 2 is to use the ABLE board to bridge the 11/44s UNIBUS to a QBUS backplane and then use a DigiData QBUS controller to connect to the tape drive. I've got all the hardware, cables, etc. to do this but I'm a little gunshy of just plowing ahead lest I end up letting the smoke out. Thanks, greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 12:12:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio Message-ID: <01Mar14.131835est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> As of today, I'm the happy owner of an Atari Portfolio. Pretty neat little machine, with even a longer battery life than my Tandy 102. Due to it's small size, not as nice a keyboard though. Does anyone know where I can get additional 64k or 128k memory cards for it? It came with the parallel interface. Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the Cyberdine vault...is this true? Jeff From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Mar 14 12:43:37 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010314124337.0089c600@ubanproductions.com> I don't see a date for VCF 5.0 ? Didn't someone say that they did? --tom From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Mar 14 12:46:05 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Moving data to an Apple II In-Reply-To: from "Erich Weidenhammer" at Dec 04, 2000 06:22:59 PM Message-ID: <200103141846.KAA06054@eskimo.com> > I have two apple II computers, a IIgs (Rom 0- no operating system)and > an Apple IIc. Both have floppies and both have the latest 8 bit apple DOS. > Neither have modems or any communication software. I am trying to get > software from my PC to the apples using a Mac Classic II as a bridge. I can > get Shrinkit and BinCSII to work on the apples but I need .txt files to work > with. > Unfortunately, somewhere between the PC and the apples, the resource > fork designating the file type gets garbled so BinSCII can't recognise the > .txt files. Does anybody know where I can find a Macintosh image file of an > Apple II disk with Fazz or another attribute changer on it? Does anyone know > of another way to get files onto the Apples with the tools I have? It turns out that the ProDOS 8 filesystem supports files with two forks (just like the Mac filesystem does) but I have never found an 8-bit Apple program that can handle those files. If Shrinkit shows a + next to the file type or you get an error $4B from ProDOS, your file is a forked file. It also turns out that the newer Mac transfer software (i.e., the PC Exchange control panel) creates those forks when you are transferring a TeachText file. The solution is to find a copy of Apple File Exchange, set it up for "Plain text transfer", and make sure all the various character-conversion options are turned off. At least that's what worked for me. -- Derek From red at bears.org Wed Mar 14 12:52:53 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Moving data to an Apple II In-Reply-To: <200103141846.KAA06054@eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Derek Peschel wrote: > It also turns out that the newer Mac transfer software (i.e., the PC > Exchange control panel) creates those forks when you are transferring a > TeachText file. The solution is to find a copy of Apple File Exchange, set > it up for "Plain text transfer", and make sure all the various > character-conversion options are turned off. At least that's what worked > for me. Yes, I rather recall we learned that lesson the hard way, eh Derek? (: ok r. From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 12:32:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <01Mar14.131835est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > As of today, I'm the happy owner of an Atari Portfolio. Pretty neat > little machine, with even a longer battery life than my Tandy 102. Due to > it's small size, not as nice a keyboard though. Does anyone know where I > can get additional 64k or 128k memory cards for it? It came with the > parallel interface. Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was > used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the > Cyberdine vault...is this true? Yes, but you also need the Hollywood Credit Card O' Magic peripheral that it was interfaced to that actually allows one to crack the PIN codes. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 12:33:27 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010314124337.0089c600@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I don't see a date for VCF 5.0 ? Didn't someone say that they did? It's not posted yet on the VCF site but the dates are September 15/16, 2001 :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Mar 14 13:58:59 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio Message-ID: <104.3d9c9d.27e12783@aol.com> In a message dated 3/14/01 12:28:48 PM Central Standard Time, jhellige@earthlink.net writes: << Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the Cyberdine vault...is this true? >> yup, it is. That's what I tell people when they see mine in my collection. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 14:25:11 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio Message-ID: <01Mar14.153049est.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >> parallel interface. Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was >> used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the >> Cyberdine vault...is this true? > >Yes, but you also need the Hollywood Credit Card O' Magic peripheral that >it was interfaced to that actually allows one to crack the PIN codes. I didn't say I was actually going to try and use it for that! I just thought it was one of those interesting footnotes. The scene wouldn't have been quite as effective if he had had to lug a along. It was pretty cool. Of course, it didin't provide all the blinking lights to look at that the IMSAI in 'Wargames' had Jeff From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 14 14:13:36 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Moving data to an Apple II In-Reply-To: <200103141846.KAA06054@eskimo.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010314141028.02b3e390@pc> At 10:46 AM 3/14/01 -0800, you wrote: >It turns out that the ProDOS 8 filesystem supports files with two forks >(just like the Mac filesystem does) but I have never found an 8-bit Apple >program that can handle those files. If Shrinkit shows a + next to the file >type or you get an error $4B from ProDOS, your file is a forked file. A quick search on "prodos appledouble" turned up a number of links that gave me the (perhaps uninformed) impression that programs could make them and manipulate them. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 14 14:15:00 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: References: <01Mar14.131835est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010314141406.02d569d0@pc> At 10:32 AM 3/14/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: >>Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was >> used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the >> Cyberdine vault...is this true? > >Yes, but you also need the Hollywood Credit Card O' Magic peripheral that >it was interfaced to that actually allows one to crack the PIN codes. PIN codes? Magic credit cards and laptops? Why, he just used a buffer overflow exploit. - John From curt at atari-history.com Wed Mar 14 14:30:00 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio References: <01Mar14.131835est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <00a301c0acc5$8ad65150$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi Jeff, Go to B&C Atari Sales & Service: www.myatari.com where you will find ram upgrades, software, parallel interfaces, serial interfaces and also look into the HPC drive card interface which hooks up an ISA bus PC to allow you to download files onto your PC from the internet, copy them to a Portfolio drive card and then place that card into your Portfolio as drive C:\ and use that data or program on your Portfolio. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:12 PM Subject: Atari Portfolio > As of today, I'm the happy owner of an Atari Portfolio. Pretty neat > little machine, with even a longer battery life than my Tandy 102. Due to > it's small size, not as nice a keyboard though. Does anyone know where I > can get additional 64k or 128k memory cards for it? It came with the > parallel interface. Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was > used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the > Cyberdine vault...is this true? > > Jeff From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Mar 14 14:32:41 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010314124337.0089c600@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010314143241.008a17b0@ubanproductions.com> I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping up? At 10:33 AM 3/14/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > >> I don't see a date for VCF 5.0 ? Didn't someone say that they did? > >It's not posted yet on the VCF site but the dates are September 15/16, >2001 :) > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From djg at drs-esg.com Wed Mar 14 14:40:44 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Mailing list problem Message-ID: <200103142040.PAA14167@drs-esg.com> Anybody else having problems with getting multiple copies of the digest? I have gotten 20 or so copies of classiccmp-digest V1 #537 and just got another couple in the last hour. I have gotten 1 of 538 and 540 and didn't seem to get 539 (or possibly deleted thinking it was an extre 537). From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 14:36:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010314143241.008a17b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping up? Yes. The main VCF event is September 15/16 at the San Jose Convention Center. I'm still searching for a suitable venue for VCF East 1.0. I was all set to do it at the Rhodes Island Convention Center but their fees are too high. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From azog at azog.org Wed Mar 14 15:59:14 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer Message-ID: <001801c0acd2$02b99400$0a00a8c0@azog> I have a catatonic TRS-80 Pocket Computer. I don't know what's wrong with it. I thought it was working fine, until I replaced the batteries. Now the screen just blinks and goes off. Perhaps the wrong kind of batteries, or perhaps they're dead. Anyone interested in this? From ahm at spies.com Wed Mar 14 16:32:34 2001 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 In-Reply-To: <3AAEC9F8.CCE3F501@internet1.net>; from Chad Fernandez on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:31:36PM -0500 References: <3AAEC9F8.CCE3F501@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010314173234.H2228@spies.com> Chad Fernandez writes: > I got my PDP11/53, but I can't get it to do anything. I loaded > Tera-Term on my IBM Model 80, to use as my terminal. I dug out a serial > cable, and bought a gender changer to hook the two computers up. What > could I be doing wrong... I am not getting anything! I see lights on > the cards, but nothing on the screen. Sorry - I'm not a PDP11 person, but... since you say you're using a serial cable, maybe you need a null-modem adapter too? Cheers, Andy From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Mar 14 17:14:54 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Inmos & the transputer - the early years] Message-ID: <3AAFFB6E.F7C64865@olf.com> -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Ram Meenakshisundaram Subject: Inmos & the transputer - the early years Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:10:21 -0500 Size: 1373 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010314/d7c47bd9/attachment.mht From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 14 17:30:16 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? In-Reply-To: <004f01c0ac5d$16e4c000$a49eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > Looked through a bunch of disks and the earliest > > > version of MS-DOS I could find was 1.13. > > > > Which OEM is your 1.13? > > SOME of the differences from one OEM to another can > prevent successfully > > using one company's MS-DOS on another's products, but > most of the > > differences won't matter much. > > > Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer - > proprietary format I believe > Don't know that the format is unique, but I'll bet it won't run on anything else than a TI 'Professional'. - don From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Mar 14 17:38:28 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer In-Reply-To: <001801c0acd2$02b99400$0a00a8c0@azog> from "Billy D'Augustine" at "Mar 14, 2001 04:59:14 pm" Message-ID: <200103142338.PAA19254@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > I have a catatonic TRS-80 Pocket Computer. I don't know what's wrong with > it. I thought it was working fine, until I replaced the batteries. Now the > screen just blinks and goes off. Perhaps the wrong kind of batteries, or > perhaps they're dead. > > Anyone interested in this? Which model, PC, PC-2, PC-3, PC-4? Eric From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 14 17:56:07 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? References: <3.0.5.32.20010314124337.0089c600@ubanproductions.com> <3.0.5.32.20010314143241.008a17b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <004001c0ace2$562d0030$0a01a8c0@station1> > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping > up? Yes, and what about those poor souls (like me) who live in the netherworld between the coasts? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" -- Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" -- Adolf Hitler From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 18:27:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <104.3d9c9d.27e12783@aol.com> References: <104.3d9c9d.27e12783@aol.com> Message-ID: >In a message dated 3/14/01 12:28:48 PM Central Standard Time, >jhellige@earthlink.net writes: > ><< Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was > used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the > Cyberdine vault...is this true? >> > >yup, it is. That's what I tell people when they see mine in my collection. I thought that was pretty cool when I heard that...it will definately be mentioned in the write-up I do for the machine. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 18:30:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <00a301c0acc5$8ad65150$c2609040@atarihistory.com> References: <01Mar14.131835est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <00a301c0acc5$8ad65150$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: > Go to B&C Atari Sales & Service: www.myatari.com where you will find ram >upgrades, software, parallel interfaces, serial interfaces and also look >into the HPC drive card interface which hooks up an ISA bus PC to allow you >to download files onto your PC from the internet, copy them to a Portfolio >drive card and then place that card into your Portfolio as drive C:\ and use >that data or program on your Portfolio. Thanks Curt...I've checked them out and they do have quite a lot of stuff. Other than the parallel interface, both boxes and the manuals, the only thing I got with it was the 'File Manager/Tutorial' card. I can certainly see it getting some use though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From azog at azog.org Wed Mar 14 18:40:26 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer References: <001801c0acd2$02b99400$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <003b01c0ace8$895ae700$0a00a8c0@azog> ack, I've gotten lots of mail on this, and I may have been a little vague. I know there were several models of this item. However, this unit has no specification, ie PC-4, so I am assuming it's the first model in this product line. The catalogue number is 26-3501, if that helps... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy D'Augustine" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:59 PM Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer > I have a catatonic TRS-80 Pocket Computer. I don't know what's wrong with > it. I thought it was working fine, until I replaced the batteries. Now the > screen just blinks and goes off. Perhaps the wrong kind of batteries, or > perhaps they're dead. > > Anyone interested in this? > > From curtisauto at qwest.net Wed Mar 14 18:49:03 2001 From: curtisauto at qwest.net (Curtis Auto) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Need an IBM 9309-2 Rack Enclosure Message-ID: <000301c0ace9$bbd611e0$4702b5d1@curtisauto> Are you still looking for this because I have what you need. Jeff From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 17:36:58 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Need Altos 8600 Software In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010313222913.006973b0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of an MP/M, CP/M, or XENIX boot disk for the > Altos model 8600-12A? > Don Maslin doesn't have what I need. Maybe the archivists at > Trailing-edge, or Sellam's VCF archive has something. I wouldn't be surprised if I do, but unfortunately nothing turned up in a pile of disks that came with an Altos system I picked up last year. I have piles of 8" disks and one day will have them all sorted and catalogued :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 14 17:37:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <004001c0ace2$562d0030$0a01a8c0@station1> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping > > up? > > Yes, and what about those poor souls (like me) who live in the netherworld > between the coasts? John Keys is supposed to be investigating a VCF Midwest. What's up with that, John? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Mar 14 18:54:49 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: Moving data to an Apple II In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010314141028.02b3e390@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 14, 2001 02:13:36 PM Message-ID: <200103150054.QAA17771@eskimo.com> I wrote: > >It turns out that the ProDOS 8 filesystem supports files with two forks > >(just like the Mac filesystem does) but I have never found an 8-bit Apple > >program that can handle those files. If Shrinkit shows a + next to the file > >type or you get an error $4B from ProDOS, your file is a forked file. John Foust wrote: > A quick search on "prodos appledouble" turned up a number > of links that gave me the (perhaps uninformed) impression that > programs could make them and manipulate them. I thought AppleDouble separated the forks into two files. Anyway, although utility programs undoubtedly do exist, I didn't have any that night, and it was just easier to use Apple File Exchange. -- Derek From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Mar 14 19:34:14 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:13 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 In-Reply-To: <20010314173234.H2228@spies.com> from Andreas Meyer at "Mar 14, 2001 05:32:34 pm" Message-ID: <200103150134.f2F1YE705481@bg-tc-ppp1268.monmouth.com> > Chad Fernandez writes: > > I got my PDP11/53, but I can't get it to do anything. I loaded > > Tera-Term on my IBM Model 80, to use as my terminal. I dug out a serial > > cable, and bought a gender changer to hook the two computers up. What > > could I be doing wrong... I am not getting anything! I see lights on > > the cards, but nothing on the screen. > > Sorry - I'm not a PDP11 person, but... > since you say you're using a serial cable, maybe you need a null-modem > adapter too? > > Cheers, > Andy One thing -- I don't know about the 11/53 -- but most DEC DL11-W console serial ports don't give you the modem control signals you need for the PC (CTS<->RTS) (DTR->DSR-DCD). You probably need a null modem cable or adapter with CTS-RTS jumpered at the PC and DTR going to DSR and DCD (both ways). --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Mar 14 20:14:32 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer In-Reply-To: <003b01c0ace8$895ae700$0a00a8c0@azog> from Billy D'Augustine at "Mar 14, 1 07:40:26 pm" Message-ID: <200103150214.SAA11468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I know there were several models of this item. However, this unit has no > specification, ie PC-4, so I am assuming it's the first model in this > product line. The catalogue number is 26-3501, if that helps... 26-3501? I thought it was 26-3250 or some such -- there's actually two kinds of PC-4 with slightly different BASICs. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The Army needs leaders the way a foot needs a big toe. -- Bill Murray ------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Mar 14 20:15:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 14, 1 07:30:19 pm" Message-ID: <200103150215.SAA08662@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Thanks Curt...I've checked them out and they do have quite a > lot of stuff. Other than the parallel interface, both boxes and the > manuals, the only thing I got with it was the 'File Manager/Tutorial' > card. I can certainly see it getting some use though. I've wanted a Portfolio since the day I first saw one new. I love my 95LX but the Portfolio has style written all over it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S Truman --------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Mar 14 20:13:40 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Rescue ASR-33 and manual in SC, USA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010314201215.02dc9510@pc> From: "Lee" To: "Green Keys" Subject: [GreenKeys] Fw: (Green Keys) Cleaning out the garage. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:08:20 -0500 : : : : : I have found in the deep dark corner of the garage, (1) AN/FGC-8 (Kleinschmidt TT-512/FG. I have with it the Army tech manual TM 11-5815-306-12 and -35. Lurking with it, is a model-33 ASR with Teletype Bulletin 273B Vol 1 Tech manual for model 32 and 33 KSR, RO and ASR. I looking for a good home for these machines. I am located in the bottom corner of South Carolina, but will travel a reasonable distance to transfer to your truck. I will be leaving this weekend for a week's trip, so there may be a delay in answering any queries. Lee -- W1WXS From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Mar 14 21:17:25 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? References: Message-ID: <001701c0acfe$77241d20$3f731fd1@default> So far there has been very little interest from people in this area and the States around us. After asking for help on this list I got only two responses one person is working with me and the other said he would come if we had it depending on the dates. But other wise we could really tell how people would come here for the show. We could not get sponsors without numbers to show a return on their investment. If nothing breaks for us soon we will have wait until another time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:37 PM Subject: Re: VCF 5.0 date? > On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping > > > up? > > > > Yes, and what about those poor souls (like me) who live in the netherworld > > between the coasts? > > John Keys is supposed to be investigating a VCF Midwest. What's up with > that, John? > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 14 21:13:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <200103150215.SAA08662@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200103150215.SAA08662@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >I've wanted a Portfolio since the day I first saw one new. I love my 95LX >but the Portfolio has style written all over it. The 95LX has more features, but the Portfolio is a nicer looking machine I think. One neat thing about the Portfolio is that it's PowerBasic compiler is a relative of my favorite DOS BASIC compiler. I've used PowerBasic nearly continuously for the last 11-12 years. It's nice being able to compile a simple database that will run under most any version of both DOS and Windows without modification or recompiling. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ernestls at home.com Wed Mar 14 21:48:34 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Will there be a shipping booth at the VCF? I have to fly in, and since I haven't been to the VCF before, I have no idea if there will be tons of items that I'll want to buy. If so, then shipping will be the only way for me to get the stuff home. Is there a large swap meet area, with lots of good stuff? Ernest -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:37 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VCF 5.0 date? On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping up? Yes. The main VCF event is September 15/16 at the San Jose Convention Center. I'm still searching for a suitable venue for VCF East 1.0. I was all set to do it at the Rhodes Island Convention Center but their fees are too high. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Mar 14 22:23:18 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox Message-ID: <200103150423.UAA24789@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Although it's not directly classic computer related, I got a kick out of this email I received today. Some of you may enjoy it... Remind me to tell you about the fun I had a few years back with surface mount MIL-SPEC 0 Ohm resistors. (Yes that is a zero). > There is currently a worldwide shortage of very high value ohmite resistors > in the range of 100 - 10,000,000 Mohms (yes, up to 10^13 ohms - they > actually do exist!). The best lead time is ~18-20 weeks. > > If anyone has a resistor of this type, I need the 10^13 ohms value, which I > would borrow for a few tests if possible. Eric From curt at atari-history.com Wed Mar 14 23:06:54 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio References: <200103150215.SAA08662@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002001c0ad0d$c09a6d60$c2609040@atarihistory.com> I bought a Portfolio as soon as it was released, I used to do field tech support back then and it was great for keeping notes on passwords for clients, scheduled calls and such, the best feature was the phone dialer, just walked up to a payphone, popped in a quarter and put the Portfolio up the to mouthpiece and and pressed DIAL after selecting the person to call and it did it for me, it was and still is a great little computer. A few months ago in a pinch we used it with the serial interface and a public domain program to hookup to a Sun E450 server to correct some issues in the inetd.conf file. Not too shabby, an 11 year old handheld controlling a state of the art $50k webserver :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:15 PM Subject: Re: Atari Portfolio > > Thanks Curt...I've checked them out and they do have quite a > > lot of stuff. Other than the parallel interface, both boxes and the > > manuals, the only thing I got with it was the 'File Manager/Tutorial' > > card. I can certainly see it getting some use though. > > I've wanted a Portfolio since the day I first saw one new. I love my 95LX > but the Portfolio has style written all over it. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S Truman --------------- From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Mar 15 00:15:36 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <200103150215.SAA08662@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010314221536.006a57a4@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I bought one when they first came out, and it was really useful. I customized a VCR cassette case to carry it around in. Airport security was always suspicious about this item, but not with regards to a regular-size laptop. The only downside is the plastic of the connector between the computer and the LCD passes through the hinge, and it eventually cracked from fatigue, breaking the traces so that the screen is blank. That turns out to be the EOL for most of the Portfolios :( Edwin At 18:15 3/14/01 -0800, you wrote: >I've wanted a Portfolio since the day I first saw one new. I love my 95LX >but the Portfolio has style written all over it. > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 15 00:18:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: <200103150423.UAA24789@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: >> If anyone has a resistor of this type, I need the 10^13 ohms value, which I >> would borrow for a few tests if possible. Dang, my parts box only has up to 10^12 ohms. I must have loaned out all the really high value resistors. From rdd at smart.net Thu Mar 15 00:49:05 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <1231.467T850T7974807optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 8 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > R. D. Davis skrev: > I use *NIX and I hate it. I find this whole Linux on a desktop business Alas, you need help. Not to worry; start up Emacs and type: M-x doctor (ESC-x doctor) ;-) :-) :-) > laughable. Why would one want a UNIX system anywhere but locked up in a > cupboard or on a researcher's workstation? So that one can have a useful computer system. > I'd never drive a lorry to work, nor do I like the M$ Volvo. The > Vespa is much nicer for a single person. Why not drive a lorry to work? Wouldn't you like to drive a big, shiny, new Ford F550 pickup truck to work? I recon that you're afraid that your cow-orkers would turn green with envy... let 'em. :-) What's a Vespa? I've never heard of one, but I wouldn't want to drive something with a name like that. > >Blame the U.S. government for fuel economy regulations that killed off > >nice cars, not the U.S. auto manufacturers. > > Why is that? Isn't petrol cheap enough in the states? Cheap? Over US$1.50 a gallon is not cheap; it was over US$1.70 several months ago... it would be reasonably priced, however, if our dear lame-brained, tax-hungry, common-sense-deprived, politicians weren't taxing it so heavily. At 12 to 13 miles per gallon on the highway, such prices have a way of adding up. Perhaps we should just find a way to bottle the hot-air from politicians' mouths and then find a way to use it to propel vehicles; then, there would be no real, or perceived, energy shortage. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 01:30:02 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: PC/MS-DOS 1.00? References: Message-ID: <005201c0ad21$c04d6ec0$7812f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > Looked through a bunch of disks and the earliest > > > > version of MS-DOS I could find was 1.13. > > > > > > Which OEM is your 1.13? > > > SOME of the differences from one OEM to another can > > prevent successfully > > > using one company's MS-DOS on another's products, but > > most of the > > > differences won't matter much. > > > > > Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer - > > proprietary format I believe > > > > Don't know that the format is unique, but I'll bet it won't run on > anything else than a TI 'Professional'. > > - don > You're right - I've tried. From Stiebler.External at infineon.com Thu Mar 15 02:51:08 2001 From: Stiebler.External at infineon.com (Stiebler.External@infineon.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 Message-ID: > > Chad Fernandez writes: > > > I got my PDP11/53, but I can't get it to do anything. I loaded > > > Tera-Term on my IBM Model 80, to use as my terminal. I > dug out a serial > > > cable, and bought a gender changer to hook the two > computers up. What > > > could I be doing wrong... I am not getting anything! I > see lights on > > > the cards, but nothing on the screen. Where did you get this 11/53 ? There are some versions (EPROMs) which are decserver versions. So you don't get anything on the screen until you go to the debug/configuration mode (try some of the modi on the bulkhead) And, another one: try an , or

. If you got the "normal" version of the 11/53, it stops looking for the boot device and is talking to you. cheers From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 15 04:34:51 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: Message-ID: <004701c0ad3b$914b97e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "R. D. Davis" Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 5:19 PM Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > What's a Vespa? I've never heard of one, but I wouldn't want to drive > something with a name like that. Italian for wasp. It's a strange looking rear engined, small wheeled motor scooter. Popular in the 60's. Made by Piaggio in Italy of Macchi fame. There was a rival, also Italian, that looked similar, though a little slimmer, called a Lambretta. Honda have a modern 'look somewhat alike' called the Lead (one of those translations from Jap to English that doesn't quite work) I actually owned a Vespa for around 12 months in the early 70's and used it to commute to high school. (Then I got a car, 48 Morris Minor, sidevalve, that used 'Thermal Syphonage" instead of a water pump. This really meant it boiled a lot, but it was a dry ride to school on wet days. Probably the Vespa's most interesting features were the all metal construction, even the side covers and the windguard etc, (but they weigh a ton if you have to push them), a very large lockable storage compartment in one of the side covers and the fact that a flat tyre didn't strand you. The wheels bolt on a like a car, and it carries a spare wheel on a pedastal just behind the windguard next to the brake pedal (yes pedal). Stick it on the main stand, whip the bolts out with the wheel spanner (included), change the wheel and off you go. This got me home on several occasions where a plastic Jap bike would have had to be left or pushed. Not fast, the 150cc version was flat as a pancake at around 45mph, but it ran for a week on half a gallon of 2 stroke. (which was about 50c at the time IIRC) > Cheap? Over US$1.50 a gallon is not cheap; it was over US$1.70 > several months ago You should come over here. Petrol is currently around 98c a litre, so it's something over $4AU a US gallon or just over $2US. And it will get worse now that the AU$ just took a dive below US50c. Be happy with it at that price. I would be. > it would be reasonably priced, however, if our > dear lame-brained, tax-hungry, common-sense-deprived, politicians > weren't taxing it so heavily. Yeah, we have that problem too. > At 12 to 13 miles per gallon on the highway, such prices have a way of adding up. Boggle! What are you driving? A cement truck? Yeech. I thought the 79 Volvo 244DL was bad at around 21 mpg around town. I have an 84 Ford Falcon (XE model, 4.1 litre 6 cyl) sitting idle in the back yard at the moment, too expensive even to drive to work. Yes, it's worse than the Volvo, though not an awful lot, around 18 or so to the Imperial gallon around town. > Perhaps we should just > find a way to bottle the hot-air from politicians' mouths and then > find a way to use it to propel vehicles; then, there would be no real, > or perceived, energy shortage. Now there's a good idea. ;^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 15 03:37:29 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Apple Network Server PCI RAID card In-Reply-To: References: <1231.467T850T7974807optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: I'm a bit curious about this item, and since the page counter is already pushing 150 (bid still $17, those last 10 minutes I bet will be exciting). Apple Network Server PCI RAID card. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1221336364 Squeezing info out of apple is such a pain, anybody know about this card, what it does etc.? From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 15 07:00:47 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: OT? PowerBook 5300 Message-ID: I inherited a PowerBook 5300. I know nothing about it, so I'm not sure if it fits the catagory "classic". All I have is the book itself - no power adapter. I haven't tried it yet, so I'm looking to glean info on it. From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 15 07:00:47 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer In-Reply-To: <200103150214.SAA11468@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: It's definately not a PC4 - they're visibly distinctive from this model. Anyways, it's been claimed. > > I know there were several models of this item. However, this unit has no > > specification, ie PC-4, so I am assuming it's the first model in this > > product line. The catalogue number is 26-3501, if that helps... > > 26-3501? I thought it was 26-3250 or some such -- there's actually two > kinds of PC-4 with slightly different BASICs. From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Mar 15 07:35:07 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What ever happened to the VCF Midwest concept? -Bob >On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > > > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping up? > >Yes. The main VCF event is September 15/16 at the San Jose Convention >Center. > >I'm still searching for a suitable venue for VCF East 1.0. I was all set >to do it at the Rhodes Island Convention Center but their fees are too >high. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 15 08:10:18 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010315081018.0087a600@ubanproductions.com> Another thing to try is to be sure that your terminal is working properly. Be sure that with the cable attached to the terminal and disconnected from the 11/53 there is no echo of characters typed at the terminal and when pins 2 and 3 are shorted together on the cable end that would attach to the 11/53 the terminal does echo back to itself. If this does not work, then you have not properly faked out the modem control signals that the terminal requires to work. --tom At 09:51 AM 3/15/01 +0100, you wrote: >> > Chad Fernandez writes: >> > > I got my PDP11/53, but I can't get it to do anything. I loaded >> > > Tera-Term on my IBM Model 80, to use as my terminal. I >> dug out a serial >> > > cable, and bought a gender changer to hook the two >> computers up. What >> > > could I be doing wrong... I am not getting anything! I >> see lights on >> > > the cards, but nothing on the screen. > >Where did you get this 11/53 ? >There are some versions (EPROMs) which are decserver versions. >So you don't get anything on the screen until you go to the debug/configuration mode >(try some of the modi on the bulkhead) > >And, another one: try an , or

. > >If you got the "normal" version of the 11/53, it stops looking for the boot device >and is talking to you. > >cheers > > From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Mar 15 08:37:42 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: NCD 88k Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD17638B@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Hi, Does anyone happen to have the video connector pin-outs for an NCD 88k Xterminal (connector is the same size as the 15 pin joystick connector normally found on PCs, but has 3 rows of pins, not two - think it's something like 23-way) I managed to find information on the NCD website about 2 months ago, but it seems to have disappeared now and through my own stupidity I managed to misplace the data which I downloaded back then :-( (I guess I'll still need a boot image though too so hopefully the files I've misplaced will turn up...) cheers Jules From west at tseinc.com Thu Mar 15 08:51:34 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Mailing list problems?? & a notice References: <200103142040.PAA14167@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <004d01c0ad5f$6f226f80$288953d1@fozzie> I will take a look at the mailing list problems sometime today or tomorrow. I'm a little mystified as to how it could possibly be sending multiple digests to the same address, but I'll check it out. So far pretty much every problem with the list has been problems on either the end-user side or the end-users ISP. When I do the testing I may send a few test messages that go out on the list publicly. These will be clearly labled with a header of 'list test' so you can send them to /dev/null If anyone has specific reproduceable examples of problems with the list, please send the details to me at west@tseinc.com and carboncopy jwest@mppw.com And as a side-note.... we sent out a mailing about 2 weeks ago regarding scheduled downtime for our ISP. I didn't think to CC this list. This coming sunday, march 18th, at 12:00 midnight we will be taking both our primary and secondary DNS servers offline so that they can be physically moved to a different location. They are expected to be out of service for at least 1/2 hour, but possibly up to 1 hour. No DNS services for any domains we host (classiccmp.org included) will be available during this short period that early morning. This move will mark the end of our year long network consolidation and infrastructure upgrade project. You can bet there will be some celebrating on my part as my life/workload finally begins to return to normal ;) Thanks! Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: David Gesswein To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 2:40 PM Subject: Mailing list problem > Anybody else having problems with getting multiple copies of the digest? > I have gotten 20 or so copies of classiccmp-digest V1 #537 and just got > another couple in the last hour. I have gotten 1 of 538 and 540 and didn't > seem to get 539 (or possibly deleted thinking it was an extre 537). > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 15 09:14:18 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Sell Old PCs to the Egyptian and African markets Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010315091320.02199670@pc> From: "Hesham Yehya" To: Subject: Re: "Old Crap" (was: NEC APC available) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:58:42 +0200 : : : : Dear Sirs ; It gives us the greatest pleasure to write to you , we are an Egyptian company specialized in the import of obsolete and used computer hardware products , processors , rams , motherboards , cd drives , sound cards , vga cards , and other inexpensive accessories for the egyptian and african markets . We are seeking new suppliers for the following items : 1- used and obsolete hard disks up to 10 giga 2-used and obsolete motherboards with processors Pentium II 300 3-used and obsolete rams up to 64 mega 4-used and obsolete CD Drives 5-used Monitors 14 & 15 inches 6- Used Floppy disk drives we would be very grateful to you if you inform us if you have such stocks available , if so please provide us with the inventory and price lists , we order whole containers . waiting for your kind reply and hoping that this would be a beginning for a fruitful business relationship with you , please accept my best personal wishes . yours respectfully Hesham Yehya Attallah General Manager Dragons International Egypt 23 Mohammed Eid Street From Hassanien El Dosoukey Street Hadayek El Maadi Cairo Egypt Tel : 002-010-5857875 Fax : 002-02-5231750 E-Mail : heshameg@starnet.com.eg From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Mar 15 09:26:12 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: OT-VisualStudio problems Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879700@MAIL10> Hello, all: This is completely off-topic, but I thought that maybe someone ran into this problem before. I just got a new laptop - a snazzy Compaq one, with Windowss ME. I'm trying to reinstall MicroSloth Visual Studio 6 (no SPs). When I run the IDE after the install, I get an application error that prevents it from running. Not much to go on, but has anyone else installed VS on Windows ME? Rich From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Thu Mar 15 09:59:27 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: OT? PowerBook 5300 Message-ID: <42098303@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1640 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010315/44ea9841/attachment.bin From kevan at heydon.org Thu Mar 15 10:19:48 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) Message-ID: Can anybody help this guy out? If so then reply directly to him. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:09:43 -0800 From: Lincoln Spector Subject: Looking for Someone with IBM PC Hi. I'm writing an article for PC World on the 20th anniversary of the IBM PC. I'm looking for someone with an original IBM PC (circa 1981) and DOS 1.0 on floppies. I'm not trying to buy the computer. I would just like to talk to someone who has one and might be willing to do a simple test on it for me. Thank you, Lincoln Spector Journalist, Columnist, Humorist 510-548-3725 lincoln@dnai.com www.thelinkinspector.com From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Mar 15 10:39:31 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > > > I assume this is the California VCF. How is the East coast VCF shaping up? > > Yes. The main VCF event is September 15/16 at the San Jose Convention > Center. > > I'm still searching for a suitable venue for VCF East 1.0. I was all set > to do it at the Rhodes Island Convention Center but their fees are too > high. > It's probably too late to actually get something going this year, but has nay consideration been given to holding it at a college rather than a Convention Center?? Scranton, PA is pretty well located at the junctions of I81 (north/south), I84 (east to NE), I380 (southeast towards Nj and NYC), I80 (east/west) and the Northeast Extension of he PA Turnpike (which has an I number, but I don't know it but it heads straight to Pilladelphia). We even have our own airport. :-) Lot's of hotels/motels. And I would imagine the facilities here are a lot cheaper than most Convention Centers. What I don't know is what facilities are needed and how many people you expect to need support for. Anybody want to talk aboit it?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 10:06:17 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <001701c0acfe$77241d20$3f731fd1@default> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > So far there has been very little interest from people in this area > and the States around us. After asking for help on this list I got > only two responses one person is working with me and the other said he > would come if we had it depending on the dates. But other wise we > could really tell how people would come here for the show. We could > not get sponsors without numbers to show a return on their investment. > If nothing breaks for us soon we will have wait until another time. After VCF East is taken care of then we'll run a survey for a possible VCF Midwest. There's no way I can manage any more shows this year, so any midwest event will have to wait til 2002. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 10:10:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Ernest wrote: > Will there be a shipping booth at the VCF? I have to fly in, and since > I haven't been to the VCF before, I have no idea if there will be tons > of items that I'll want to buy. If so, then shipping will be the only > way for me to get the stuff home. That's an interesting idea. I guess we could provide a shipping service (for a fee) for out-of-towners that don't want to lug their stuff home with them. > Is there a large swap meet area, with lots of good stuff? This can be subjective but I collect a lot and I'm always amazed at what turns up at the marketplace. If I wasn't so busy running around taking care of things I'd be snapping stuff up. But as it always turns out, lucky Festival-goers get to all the good stuff before me :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 10:14:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Obsolete? (Was: Re: Speaking of cubes) (fwd) Message-ID: Here's an interesting e-mail I got this morning. Obviously these guys have been monitoring the list. I wonder if they take Altairs? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:59:52 +0200 From: Hesham Yehya Subject: Re: Obsolete? (Was: Re: Speaking of cubes) Dear Sirs ; It gives us the greatest pleasure to write to you , we are an Egyptian company specialized in the import of obsolete and used computer hardware products , processors , rams , motherboards , cd drives , sound cards , vga cards , and other inexpensive accessories for the egyptian and african markets . We are seeking new suppliers for the following items : 1- used and obsolete hard disks up to 10 giga 2-used and obsolete motherboards with processors Pentium II 300 3-used and obsolete rams up to 64 mega 4-used and obsolete CD Drives 5-used Monitors 14 & 15 inches 6- Uesd Floppy disk drives we wiould be very grateful to you if you inform us if you have such stocks available , if so please provide us with the inventory and price lists , we order whole containers . waiting for your kind reply and hoping that this would be a begining for a fruitful business relationship with you , please accept my best personal wishes . yours respectfully Hesham Yehya Attallah General Manager Dragons International Egypt 23 Mohammed Eid Street From Hassanien El Dosoukey Street Hadayek El Maadi Cairo Egypt Tel : 002-010-5857875 Fax : 002-02-5231750 E-Mail : heshameg@starnet.com.eg --- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 10:20:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: OT-VisualStudio problems In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879700@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > I just got a new laptop - a snazzy Compaq one, with Windowss ME. > I'm trying to reinstall MicroSloth Visual Studio 6 (no SPs). When I > run the IDE after the install, I get an application error that > prevents it from running. Two great resources for troubleshooting technical trouble: http://www.computing.net - I've found the solutions to some very obscure problems on the forums here. In this specific case: http://www.microsoft.com/support Believe it or not, MS usually does have very good trouble reports and fixes documented on their site, if you know where to look. You can use their Knowledge Base or do a search. I bet you'll find something useful in a fraction of the time it would take you to call an MS tech droid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 10:24:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > It's probably too late to actually get something going this year, but > has nay consideration been given to holding it at a college rather > than a Convention Center?? Scranton, PA is pretty well located at the > junctions of I81 (north/south), I84 (east to NE), I380 (southeast > towards Nj and NYC), I80 (east/west) and the Northeast Extension of he > PA Turnpike (which has an I number, but I don't know it but it heads > straight to Pilladelphia). Philadelphia is on the short list of places to hold the event, and it still hasn't been completely decided yet, but I am favoring the Providence/Boston areas over anything else because of the proximity to the Rhodes Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhodes Island. I'd like to lend support to those organizations by holding the event close enough for people to go visit them while they attend the Festival. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ip500 at home.com Thu Mar 15 11:59:04 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? References: Message-ID: <3AB102E8.B3395D0D@home.com> Check with a local pack & ship operation [Mailboxes Etc for instance]. Often they will set up at events like this [I've used them for antique radio swap meets] and best of all it's FREE to the organizer. Well, almost free... you have to give them booth space & sometimes they require electrical power. Craig Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Ernest wrote: > > > Will there be a shipping booth at the VCF? I have to fly in, and since > > I haven't been to the VCF before, I have no idea if there will be tons > > of items that I'll want to buy. If so, then shipping will be the only > > way for me to get the stuff home. > > That's an interesting idea. I guess we could provide a shipping service > (for a fee) for out-of-towners that don't want to lug their stuff home > with them. > > > Is there a large swap meet area, with lots of good stuff? > > This can be subjective but I collect a lot and I'm always amazed at what > turns up at the marketplace. If I wasn't so busy running around taking > care of things I'd be snapping stuff up. But as it always turns out, > lucky Festival-goers get to all the good stuff before me :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Mar 15 12:14:56 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: OT-VisualStudio problems Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879707@MAIL10> Sam: The first place that I tried was Microsoft. That's why I asked here :-) A search there turned-up nothing useful. I will try the other link, though. Thanks. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:21 AM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: Re: OT-VisualStudio problems On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Cini, Richard wrote: > I just got a new laptop - a snazzy Compaq one, with Windowss ME. > I'm trying to reinstall MicroSloth Visual Studio 6 (no SPs). When I > run the IDE after the install, I get an application error that > prevents it from running. Two great resources for troubleshooting technical trouble: http://www.computing.net - I've found the solutions to some very obscure problems on the forums here. In this specific case: http://www.microsoft.com/support Believe it or not, MS usually does have very good trouble reports and fixes documented on their site, if you know where to look. You can use their Knowledge Base or do a search. I bet you'll find something useful in a fraction of the time it would take you to call an MS tech droid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 15 12:44:16 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That message is two days old. In that time, we have contacted him, set up the system needed, done the tests he wanted, done multiple followup tests, and let the list know. Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Kevan Heydon wrote: > Can anybody help this guy out? If so then reply directly to him. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:09:43 -0800 > From: Lincoln Spector > Subject: Looking for Someone with IBM PC > > Hi. I'm writing an article for PC World on the 20th anniversary of the IBM > PC. I'm looking for someone with an original IBM PC (circa 1981) and DOS 1.0 > on floppies. > > I'm not trying to buy the computer. I would just like to talk to someone who > has one and might be willing to do a simple test on it for me. > > > Thank you, > > > Lincoln Spector > Journalist, Columnist, Humorist > 510-548-3725 > lincoln@dnai.com > www.thelinkinspector.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 15 12:52:22 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Apple Network Server PCI RAID card In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Mar 15, 1 01:37:29 am" Message-ID: <200103151852.KAA10470@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'm a bit curious about this item, and since the page counter is already > pushing 150 (bid still $17, those last 10 minutes I bet will be exciting). > > Apple Network Server PCI RAID card. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1221336364 > > Squeezing info out of apple is such a pain, anybody know about this card, > what it does etc.? I guess since I'm the de facto Network Server guru ... :-) The RAID card only works with the Apple-branded AIX for the ANS, making it effectively worthless for other PCI PowerMacs and the vast majority of other Network Servers which now probably run LinuxPPC. It's a hardware RAID device and supposedly it's blindingly fast. I just don't have enough SCSI interconnect boards or drives in mine to make it worthwhile at the moment. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not Camelot, but it's not Cleveland either. -- Boston mayor Kevin White From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 13:03:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010314221536.006a57a4@yellow.ucdavis.edu> References: <3.0.1.32.20010314221536.006a57a4@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: > The only downside is the plastic of the connector between the computer >and the LCD passes through the hinge, and it eventually cracked from >fatigue, breaking the traces so that the screen is blank. That turns out >to be the EOL for most of the Portfolios :( My only complaint about the one I just got is that it's LCD hinge assembly is really tight and noisy. Otherwise it works great. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Mar 15 13:11:46 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Sell Old PCs to the Egyptian and African markets In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010315091320.02199670@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010315111146.007c0630@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Hesham, Oh dear, "obsolete" is a relative term. On the computers I work with, a 300 MHz CPU, 10 Gig HD, 64 MB RAM and a CD-ROM is a pipe dream. My home PC doesn't even have parts that fast or capacitous! On the other hand I do have some 486 motherboards (some even have a CPU and RAM) and some 80 MB HDs that I can get rid of. Seriously, I would not consider myself a "supplier". Definitely not enough to send container loads... Can you even imagine that used PC stuff from the collective members of ClassicCmp wouldn't fill a container??? Edwin At 09:14 AM 3/15/2001 -0600, you wrote: > We are seeking new suppliers for the following items : > > 1- used and obsolete hard disks up to 10 giga > 2-used and obsolete motherboards with processors Pentium II 300 > 3-used and obsolete rams up to 64 mega > 4-used and obsolete CD Drives > 5-used Monitors 14 & 15 inches > 6- Used Floppy disk drives > yours respectfully > > Hesham Yehya Attallah From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 15 13:19:36 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, slipped up on my question. should read: Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer WITH 16K (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? Why would MORE memory take LESS time? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 15 13:22:53 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010314143241.008a17b0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010315132253.00846d70@ubanproductions.com> What shipping arrangements are there (if any) for getting large equipment to the convention? --tom >Yes. The main VCF event is September 15/16 at the San Jose Convention >Center. > >I'm still searching for a suitable venue for VCF East 1.0. I was all set >to do it at the Rhodes Island Convention Center but their fees are too >high. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Mar 15 13:26:58 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: ; from cisin@xenosoft.com on Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:19:36AM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20010315142658.D22372@alcor.concordia.ca> On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:19:36AM -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) (cisin@xenosoft.com) wrote: > Sorry, slipped up on my question. should read: > Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer > WITH 16K (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? > > Why would MORE memory take LESS time? More memory at the same speed, or more, faster memory? -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 15 13:43:56 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <001e01db9284$ae3663a0$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <3AB1298C.7741.4FC195BB@localhost> > OK - So it might not be strange to those experts in Commodore hardware, so > I hope one of them reads this! > This was one of the few missing things in my CBM collection until yesterday. > The system first appeared dead, showing just a blank screen. But then it > worked fine with any of my assorted game cartridges in the cartridge slot. > To test the disk drive, I pulled out a cartridge-based spreadsheet which had > load and save commands and the disk drive worked OK. > The big surprise was when I put in the Simons Basic cartridge and this heavy > old "portable" C64 came up with its normal opening screen "SX-64 Basic" etc > and it loaded and ran a variety of programs from disk without a problem. But > without a cartridge, or with a C64 Super Expander cartridge, just a blank > screen. > Could it be a RAM chip that is faulty, with Simons Basic causing some > relocation of memory that allowed the system to work? Unfortunately, the > insides are not nearly as easy to get at compared to a standard C64. The SX is, beside some minor changes and a complete different layout just a way ordinay 64 - so no special chips - grap another 64 and exchange the chips - basicly everything may be damaged .... except the RAM - RAM errors are quite rare. All relevant chips are socketed. Servus Hasn -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 15 13:49:32 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010315142658.D22372@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Rich Lafferty wrote: > > Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer > > WITH 16K (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? > > Why would MORE memory take LESS time? > > More memory at the same speed, or more, faster memory? Same processor speed (4.77 MHz) Same memory speed. Actually, same memory; 5150 dip switches permit limiting how much of the memory the PC sees. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From peter at joules.org Thu Mar 15 14:18:09 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) Message-ID: I assume that as DOS is over 10 yrs old this is on topic ;-) -- Regards Pete ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 1) I am thy DOS, thou shall have no OS before me, unless Bill Gates gets a cut of the profits therefrom. 2) Thy DOS is a character based, single user, single tasking, standalone operating system. Thou shall not attempt to make DOS network, multitask, or display a graphical user interface, for that would be a gross hack . 3) Thy hard disk shall never have more than 1024 sectors. You don't need that much space anyway. 4) Thy application program and data shall all fit in 640K of RAM. After all, it's ten times what you had on a CP/M machine. Keep holy this 640K of RAM, and clutter it not with device drivers, memory managers, or other things that might make thy computer useful. 5) Thou shall use the one true slash character to separate thy directory path. Thou shall learn and love this character, even though it appears on no typewriter keyboard, and is unfamiliar. Standardization on where that character is located on a computer keyboard is right out . 6) Thou shall edit and shuffle the sacred lines of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT until DOS functions adequately for the likes of you. Giving up in disgust is not allowed. 7) Know in thy heart that DOS shall always maintain backward compatibility to the holy 2.0 version, blindly ignoring opportunities to become compatible with things created in the latter half of this century. But you can still run WordStar 1.0 8) Improve thy memory, for thou shall be required to remember that JD031792.LTR is the letter that you wrote to Jane Doe three years ago regarding the tax deductible contribution that you made to her organization. The IRS Auditor shall be impressed by thy memory as he stands over you demanding proof . 9) Pick carefully the names of thy directories, for renaming them shall be mighty difficult. While you're at it, don't try to relocate branches of the directory tree, either. 10) Learn well the Vulcan Nerve Pinch (ctrl-alt-del) for it shall be thy saviour on many an occasion. Believe in thy heart that everyone reboots their OS to solve problems that shouldn't occur in the first place. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 15 14:03:30 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010315140130.021f3ee0@pc> At 11:19 AM 3/15/01 -0800, Fred wrote: >Sorry, slipped up on my question. should read: >Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer >WITH 16K (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? > >Why would MORE memory take LESS time? A theory, unfounded in any technical fact: could the RAM probe be performing some kind of time-out or retry when it doesn't encounter RAM? In other words, when it finds RAM, it speeds along. When it doesn't, perhaps some other memory bus fault or characteristic of the POST code makes it take longer. Doesn't the tech ref guide's BIOS listing include the POST routine? - John From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 15 14:13:52 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010314124337.0089c600@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3AB13090.21212.4FDCFDC9@localhost> > > I don't see a date for VCF 5.0 ? Didn't someone say that they did? > It's not posted yet on the VCF site but the dates are September 15/16, > 2001 :) Oops, isn't that a bit early ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 15 14:13:52 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <001701c0acfe$77241d20$3f731fd1@default> Message-ID: <3AB13090.1952.4FDCFDD8@localhost> > So far there has been very little interest from people in this area and > the States around us. After asking for help on this list I got only two > responses one person is working with me and the other said he would come > if we had it depending on the dates. But other wise we could really > tell how people would come here for the show. We could not get sponsors > without numbers to show a return on their investment. If nothing breaks > for us soon we will have wait until another time. Well, that's the usual dilema for any new venture - Even guys like Benz and Ford had some problems to sell the idea of owning a self driven vehicle .... No, serious - I had the very same problem with VCFe 1.0. You will never get an even balance at your first try (and I will be happy if any time). But Money isn't only the thing to hassle. You have to balance two groups of people - your visitors _and_ your exhibitors. If you, for example manage to get a whooping publicity and thousands of visitors, but you only have a few things on display, nobody will show up for version 2.0 - and the very same is true for your exhibitors - one may manage to round up every collector between Buffalo and Salt Lake City, but they won't come again if you can't herd in enough cattle ... err visitors. So the only way is to go ahead and try it at a friendly neightborhood sized version - a litte bit advertisement, and everything at a lever where it doesn't cost you more than lat's say a great vacation. After all, it is some kind of work out vacation :) VCFe 1.0 was made a reasonable success that way (and many thanks to Sallam, who did help quite a lot), and VCFe 2.0 will now be a even bigger success ... only six more weeks ! And it even looks like we may fork a second VCF site alteady next year in another European country. You got to take the flag and carry it on - There's no way to loose, only to miss a chance. Err... let's say I got carried away :=) Servus H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 15 14:16:09 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: OT? PowerBook 5300 References: <42098303@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <002b01c0ad8c$c687f740$0a00a8c0@azog> Ah, but of course, I have the 5300ce, so I guess I have inherited a problem child? :) I did find some info on it - it seems to be a 'between' model - it's the first PPC notebook, but doesn't have open ROM's. That means I can't run NetBSD on it (requires the open firmware on PPC). Right now, I don't even know how to power the thing on! I need to find the power requirements, and hope that I can hack together an AC adapter for it... > > I believe that the 5300cs was the problem child -- if yours is a 5300c or just 5300, you might be fine. > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 15 14:31:24 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: Calcomp Drawing Card Message-ID: I just found in the original box, minus software and documentation a "Calcomp Drawing Card". It is a full length ISA card with an attached daughter card that can display 16 or 256 colors of a palette of 4 million colors at 1024 X 768. The ROM chips on the board are all labeled 1987. It says it works with IBM PC AT. Anybody know anything more? I tried a google and altavista search but only hit was for a grayscale version. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 13:28:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:14 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <3AB102E8.B3395D0D@home.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, ip500 wrote: > Check with a local pack & ship operation [Mailboxes Etc for > instance]. Often they will set up at events like this [I've used them > for antique radio swap meets] and best of all it's FREE to the > organizer. Well, almost free... you have to give them booth space & > sometimes they require electrical power. Screw that. MBE is a complete ripoff. It once cost me about $300 to pack & ship somthing that should've only cost maybe $75-$100. The lady who sent me the machine (a Tektronix 4051) didn't want to do it herself and didn't consult with me before she took it to MBE. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 13:30:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010315132253.00846d70@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > What shipping arrangements are there (if any) for getting large equipment > to the convention? Whatever ones you make :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Mar 15 14:55:23 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > > More memory at the same speed, or more, faster memory? > > Same processor speed (4.77 MHz) > Same memory speed. Actually, same memory; 5150 dip switches permit > limiting how much of the memory the PC sees. Maybe something to do with DRAM refresh and banking? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 15 13:06:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: <200103150423.UAA24789@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Mar 14, 1 08:23:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1651 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010315/8a8ee0c9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 15 13:16:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Obsolete? (Was: Re: Speaking of cubes) (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 15, 1 08:14:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 300 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010315/20c07a37/attachment.ksh From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Thu Mar 15 15:12:54 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: TRS-80 pocket computer In-Reply-To: <001801c0acd2$02b99400$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: On 14-Mar-2001 Billy D'Augustine wrote: > I have a catatonic TRS-80 Pocket Computer. I don't know what's wrong > with it. I thought it was working fine, until I replaced the batteries. > Now the screen just blinks and goes off. Perhaps the wrong kind of > batteries, or perhaps they're dead. These are rebadged Sharp Pocket Computers. The ancestors of today's PDAs and calendar/planing things. Looking at current line from Sharp, I note that none of them are programmable. What a loss. I had a slightly similar problem with my PC-1403H. Make sure the power switch was put back together properly. > Anyone interested in this? Yep. It was one of the first computers I ever programmed on, lo those many years ago. -Philip From edick at idcomm.com Thu Mar 15 16:02:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Calcomp Drawing Card References: Message-ID: <000d01c0ad9b$9d51e520$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Look around on the card for a trade name like Vectrix or a device name in the silkscreen, e.g. PePe. At one time Calcomp used the Vectrix PePe board as a drawing tool to support its line of plotters. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:31 PM Subject: Calcomp Drawing Card > I just found in the original box, minus software and documentation a > "Calcomp Drawing Card". It is a full length ISA card with an attached > daughter card that can display 16 or 256 colors of a palette of 4 million > colors at 1024 X 768. The ROM chips on the board are all labeled 1987. It > says it works with IBM PC AT. > Anybody know anything more? I tried a google and altavista search but only > hit was for a grayscale version. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Mar 15 16:09:50 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > FWIW, I do (seriously) have 10^9 ohms here. I think I have at least one > of 10^10 or 10^11 (and maybe the 10^12 or thereabouts). Nothing higher, > though. You have to be darn careful handling these things -- a > dirt/grease track on the body will be in parallel with the resistor, and > will probably have a much _lower_ value of resistance. OK... I have to ask: What is the resistance of 1/4 inch of dry air? What about 1/8 inch of fiberglass circuit board? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 15 15:05:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: <3AB1298C.7741.4FC195BB@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 15, 1 08:43:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010315/d3cedd1e/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 15 15:20:15 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: OT? PowerBook 5300 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I inherited a PowerBook 5300. I know nothing about it, so I'm not sure if it >fits the catagory "classic". All I have is the book itself - no power >adapter. I haven't tried it yet, so I'm looking to glean info on it. Its a powerPC based unit, basically the cheapest lowest end one made. Its part of a long term service program by apple due to easily broken power input connector and case hinge cracks IIRC (either problem and you just call sos apple and they fix it free, ends this year I think). I've had them, and best use I can think of is for people who HAVE to use some PPC only application and have no funds for a better unit. If you could use something else, you would. Other than that, its a typical nice apple portable. Power supply and batteries kind of pricey as I remember. From peter at joules.org Thu Mar 15 16:54:18 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > FWIW, I do (seriously) have 10^9 ohms here. I think I have at least one > of 10^10 or 10^11 (and maybe the 10^12 or thereabouts). Nothing higher, > though. Am I right in thinking that the colour coding system can't cope with values > 9*10^10? -- Regards Pete From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 15 17:35:08 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Vax 6000 site Message-ID: <00af01c0ada8$92e58440$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Some more bits added to the 6000 website at http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax *Added the first pages of a photo tour of a 6000-430, (only the front views so far - back to follow) *The Txxxx adapter list is now somewhat more complete, the formatting is not fabulous, I will compile it into a proper table when I get time. For some reason, my first search for this on the compaq site came up empty. Same search, 3 hours later, and I went straight to exactly what I wanted. Go figure. *Minor changes and additions to the FAQ. I will add some line drawings here and there as I get time, for the owners manual deprived. cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476 From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 15 16:44:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? In-Reply-To: <3AB13090.1952.4FDCFDD8@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Hans Franke wrote: > VCFe 1.0 was made a reasonable success that way (and many > thanks to Sallam, who did help quite a lot), and VCFe 2.0 > will now be a even bigger success ... only six more weeks ! 100+ visitors for the first event in Europe is a GREAT success! VCF 1.0 only got about 150 attendees. > And it even looks like we may fork a second VCF site alteady next year > in another European country. VCF! VCF! Uber Alles! ") > You got to take the flag and carry it on - There's no way to loose, > only to miss a chance. Be the one to bring the next VCF to your home town! Inquiries to . :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spc at conman.org Thu Mar 15 18:03:05 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Peter Joules" at Mar 15, 2001 08:18:09 PM Message-ID: <200103160003.TAA20389@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Peter Joules once stated: > > I assume that as DOS is over 10 yrs old this is on topic ;-) Released in 1981, yes it's on topic 8-) > 2) > Thy DOS is a character based, single user, single tasking, standalone > operating system. Thou shall not attempt to make DOS network, multitask, or > display a graphical user interface, for that would be a gross hack . Technically, it's a single taking, non-reentrant interupt based program loader with a semi-reasonable file based API (2.x or higher) and that's about it. > 3) > Thy hard disk shall never have more than 1024 sectors. You don't need that > much space anyway. That's a BIOS limitation; talk to IBM about that one---they only allocated 10 bits for sector number in the INT 13h disk IO call. > 4) > Thy application program and data shall all fit in 640K of RAM. After all, > it's ten times what you had on a CP/M machine. Keep holy this 640K of RAM, > and clutter it not with device drivers, memory managers, or other things > that might make thy computer useful. Again, IBM is to fault for that one---the IBM PC reserved the memory space above $A0000 for video and BIOS extentions. There have been PCompatibles running MS-DOS that had more memory available, but only programs that used MS-DOS exclusively would work on those machines. > 5) > Thou shall use the one true slash character to separate thy directory path. > Thou shall learn and love this character, even though it appears on no > typewriter keyboard, and is unfamiliar. Standardization on where that > character is located on a computer keyboard is right out . While COMMAND.COM would only accept `\' as a path separator, MS-DOS would internally use both `/' and `\' for path separators. There is an MS-DOS call to change the option character (from the default of `/') but I don't remember what it was off the top of my head. > 7) > Know in thy heart that DOS shall always maintain backward compatibility to > the holy 2.0 version, blindly ignoring opportunities to become compatible > with things created in the latter half of this century. But you can still > run WordStar 1.0 Try 1.0. I still use an editor that was designed to run under MS-DOS 1.0. > 10) > Learn well the Vulcan Nerve Pinch (ctrl-alt-del) for it shall be thy saviour > on many an occasion. Believe in thy heart that everyone reboots their OS to > solve problems that shouldn't occur in the first place. Isn't that more of a Windows thing than an MS-DOS thing? -spc (Doesn't remember MS-DOS crashing quite so much ... ) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 15 18:37:35 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Obsolete? (Was: Re: Speaking of cubes) (fwd) Message-ID: <00f401c0adb2$11b34880$5a779a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail > >Here's an interesting e-mail I got this morning. Obviously these guys >have been monitoring the list. Why would I want to deal with this spamming twit? Allison >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 20:59:52 +0200 >From: Hesham Yehya >Subject: Re: Obsolete? (Was: Re: Speaking of cubes) > >Dear Sirs ; > > It gives us the greatest pleasure to write to you , we are an Egyptian company specialized in the import of obsolete and used computer hardware products , processors , rams , motherboards , cd drives , sound cards , vga cards , and other inexpensive accessories for the egyptian and african markets . From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 15 17:55:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Obsolete? (Was: Re: Speaking of cubes) (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 15, 1 08:14:11 am Message-ID: >> Here's an interesting e-mail I got this morning. Obviously these guys >> have been monitoring the list. > >I got the same spam too -- twice. In my case the Subject: lines were >something to do with an Intel MDS and a MicroVAX -- threads which I >probably contributed to on classiccmp. Ditto for me, its just spam. I sent back an email message requesting details etc. and got back the same form response. From red at bears.org Thu Mar 15 18:55:55 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: found the front half of an Asante ethernet card Message-ID: I found---completely at random, in a bin of completely unrelated cruft--- the media interface half of an Asante MacCON/30ie (the ethernet card for the Mac IIsi or SE/30 at a recycler's yesterday. I picked it up for $10 because I thought I remembered somebody on the list was looking for specifically this half, but I can't remember who. It has both UTP and AUI interfaces, and all you need is the PDS half and the cable to connect the two. It's a standard IDC ribbon cable. I haven't counted the pins yet, but it looks as if it could be the same width as a ST506 data cable. If you're out there and you still want it (I should've haggled), contact me off list. ok r. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 19:07:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, for the first time in over a year, my Apple Lisa has passed all it's power-on tests. It ended up being bad chips on one of the memory boards. This with a CPU board with the 3A ROMs on it. I removed the round black coil attached to the video card a while back to try to restore it's video back to normal but I get no display when I put a CPU card in that has the older ROMs, while the CPU card with the modified ROMs still works fine. It also is actually attempting to access the floppy drive finally. For those that don't know about my Lisa, it's a 2/5 and may have even started life as a 1, but was heavily modified with the upgrade screen ROMs, 800k floppy, internal hard disk running off of the external parallel port, and a SCSI hard disk mounted in one of the expansion slots. It was a bit of a basket case when I got my hands on it and it took me quite a while just to get it to power on at all. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 15 18:31:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Mar 15, 1 05:09:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010316/a2279942/attachment.ksh From archer at topnow.com Thu Mar 15 19:24:55 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox References: Message-ID: <3AB16B67.C55DE818@mindless.com> Tony Duell wrote: FWIW, I've used a (low by comparision, but high by normal standards) > 8*10^8 ohm resistor when repairing classic computers. I am sure most of > you will instantly guess what for. > > -tony OK, I'll bite. What? -- Ross From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 15 19:35:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: <3AB16B67.C55DE818@mindless.com> from "Ross Archer" at Mar 15, 1 05:24:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010316/a3c0a68d/attachment.ksh From owad at applefritter.com Thu Mar 15 20:06:25 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks Message-ID: <20010316020625.17138@mail.earthlink.net> I'm looking for the following Compute! disks for the Atari: Compute!'s Atari ST Disk December 1987 Volume 2 No. 6 Issue 8 Compute!'s Atari ST Disk February 1988 Volume 3 No. 1 Issue 9 All I'm really interested in is the contents, so I'd be quite happy with a copy. An .ST or .MSA file via email would be perfect. If anybody could help me out I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 15 20:24:13 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) Message-ID: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: Re: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) >It was thus said that the Great Peter Joules once stated: >> 3) >> Thy hard disk shall never have more than 1024 sectors. You don't need that >> much space anyway. > > That's a BIOS limitation; talk to IBM about that one---they only allocated >10 bits for sector number in the INT 13h disk IO call. Wrong. 1024 was a hardware limitation of the early MFM controller cards and the bios honored it. FYI it was CYLINDERS not sectors. 1024 sectors would have only been 512k! >> 4) >> Thy application program and data shall all fit in 640K of RAM. After all, >> it's ten times what you had on a CP/M machine. Keep holy this 640K of RAM, >> and clutter it not with device drivers, memory managers, or other things >> that might make thy computer useful. > > Again, IBM is to fault for that one---the IBM PC reserved the memory space >above $A0000 for video and BIOS extentions. There have been PCompatibles >running MS-DOS that had more memory available, but only programs that used >MS-DOS exclusively would work on those machines. Other non -PC hardware such as Rainbow went out to 896k and some of the S100 based machines did the full meg using shadow rom. >> 5) >> Thou shall use the one true slash character to separate thy directory path. >> Thou shall learn and love this character, even though it appears on no >> typewriter keyboard, and is unfamiliar. Standardization on where that >> character is located on a computer keyboard is right out . > > While COMMAND.COM would only accept `\' as a path separator, MS-DOS would >internally use both `/' and `\' for path separators. There is an MS-DOS >call to change the option character (from the default of `/') but I don't >remember what it was off the top of my head. The other choise is the unix / or VMS [.....] form. > >> 10) >> Learn well the Vulcan Nerve Pinch (ctrl-alt-del) for it shall be thy saviour >> on many an occasion. Believe in thy heart that everyone reboots their OS to >> solve problems that shouldn't occur in the first place. > > Isn't that more of a Windows thing than an MS-DOS thing? It's really a hardware thing. Dos and most other OSs all see it and have an option to do what they care to. The real point is that RESET became the defacto solution for flakey code most of it outside DOS. > -spc (Doesn't remember MS-DOS crashing quite so much ... ) DOS being unprotected could crash, usually after the application wiped it from memory like CP/M! Any unprotected OS would be vunerable to being smashed by a runaway app. Experience with DOS 3.11 and 5.0 is that for an unprotected OS it was fairly solid and not inclined to kill itself. I have two systems that live as DOS with uptimes measured in months. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 15 21:03:06 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> References: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >Other non -PC hardware such as Rainbow went out to 896k and some of the >S100 >based machines did the full meg using shadow rom. Two Tandy products that come to mind that could be take up to 768k are the Model 2000 and the 1000HX. The only real benefit for doing it on either of them was for RAM disks though. Like the PCjr, the 1000HX used part of it's RAM for the video adapter as well. Both shipped with thier own specific versions of DOS 2.11. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 15 18:26:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found in my inbox In-Reply-To: from "Peter Joules" at Mar 15, 1 10:54:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 602 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010316/d8959843/attachment.ksh From spc at conman.org Thu Mar 15 21:31:24 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Mar 15, 2001 09:24:13 PM Message-ID: <200103160331.WAA20495@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great ajp166 once stated: > > >It was thus said that the Great Peter Joules once stated: > >> 3) > >> Thy hard disk shall never have more than 1024 sectors. You don't need > that > >> much space anyway. > > > > That's a BIOS limitation; talk to IBM about that one---they only > allocated > >10 bits for sector number in the INT 13h disk IO call. > > > Wrong. 1024 was a hardware limitation of the early MFM controller cards > and the bios honored it. FYI it was CYLINDERS not sectors. 1024 sectors > would have only been 512k! Ah, that's what I get for not double checking the reference material. In looking over it, it is indeed 10 bits for cylinder and six bits for sector number. > > -spc (Doesn't remember MS-DOS crashing quite so much ... ) > > DOS being unprotected could crash, usually after the application > wiped it from memory like CP/M! Any unprotected OS would be > vunerable to being smashed by a runaway app. I know all about that---I used to write code under MS-DOS (And the Tandy Color Computer and AmigaOS, all unprotected (memory wise) systems). Assembly code, no less. > Experience with DOS 3.11 and 5.0 is that for an unprotected OS > it was fairly solid and not inclined to kill itself. I have two systems > that live as DOS with uptimes measured in months. -spc (I never had any real problems with 2.11 either ... ) From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Mar 15 21:32:08 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: OT? PowerBook 5300 In-Reply-To: <002b01c0ad8c$c687f740$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <200103160332.f2G3WSf28706@grover.winsite.com> I think every 5300 was a problem child.... that's why Apple offered to take every stinkin' one of 'em in as trade towards a G3 Powerbook. In fact, I think they just reinstated the offer....you get around $500 credit towards a new Powerbook. Every one I've had come across my bench (I do pc repair in my "spare time" at a friend's surplus shop...this is after I play network admin during the day and before I play network admin/sound designer at home....I may need to get more of a life....) has had a problem or two. Most are completely dead, or the lid hinges are split, or both. Most common problem is a design flaw on the motherboard where the power connector is soldered on. Usually breaks loose from the system board, or actually breaks the corner off the system board. Apple got tired of wasting money on service techs to fix recurring broken machines, so they made the offer to get them in from the field. Didn't matter if it worked or not. They just wanted to make them go away. Made the same offer on PB190's.... Paul > Ah, but of course, I have the 5300ce, so I guess I have inherited a > problem child? :) > > I did find some info on it - it seems to be a 'between' model - it's > the first PPC notebook, but doesn't have open ROM's. That means I > can't run NetBSD on it (requires the open firmware on PPC). > > Right now, I don't even know how to power the thing on! I need to find > the power requirements, and hope that I can hack together an AC > adapter for it... > > > > > I believe that the 5300cs was the problem child -- if yours is a > > 5300c or > just 5300, you might be fine. > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Mar 15 21:53:10 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: OT? PowerBook 5300 In-Reply-To: <200103160332.f2G3WSf28706@grover.winsite.com> from "Paul Braun" at Mar 15, 2001 09:32:08 PM Message-ID: <200103160353.UAA00328@calico.litterbox.com> > > I think every 5300 was a problem child.... that's why Apple offered > to take every stinkin' one of 'em in as trade towards a G3 > Powerbook. In fact, I think they just reinstated the offer....you get > around $500 credit towards a new Powerbook. This is actually a fantastic deal. We got one and discovered our 5300c had just croaked after we agreed to it (and went to wipe the disk on the 5300c). The G3 firewire powerbook is a sweet machine. > Every one I've had come across my bench (I do pc repair in my > "spare time" at a friend's surplus shop...this is after I play network > admin during the day and before I play network admin/sound > designer at home....I may need to get more of a life....) has had a > problem or two. Most are completely dead, or the lid hinges are > split, or both. Most common problem is a design flaw on the > motherboard where the power connector is soldered on. Usually > breaks loose from the system board, or actually breaks the corner > off the system board. > > Apple got tired of wasting money on service techs to fix recurring > broken machines, so they made the offer to get them in from the > field. Didn't matter if it worked or not. They just wanted to make > them go away. Made the same offer on PB190's.... > > Paul > > > Ah, but of course, I have the 5300ce, so I guess I have inherited a > > problem child? :) > > > > I did find some info on it - it seems to be a 'between' model - it's > > the first PPC notebook, but doesn't have open ROM's. That means I > > can't run NetBSD on it (requires the open firmware on PPC). > > > > Right now, I don't even know how to power the thing on! I need to find > > the power requirements, and hope that I can hack together an AC > > adapter for it... > > > > > > > > I believe that the 5300cs was the problem child -- if yours is a > > > 5300c or > > just 5300, you might be fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > > "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 15 21:57:36 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Wicat, Vax, at Boeing SoCal auction In-Reply-To: <00af01c0ada8$92e58440$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: Digging through the bid sheet on a Boeing (Long Beach CA) auction (bids due before 22nd) I found a couple items I thought I should mention to the list. mainframe computer equipment, consisting of base system mfr: Wicat pallet #955 CCN: F85002HA another has 2 pieces of HP 9000 another has Vax 8530 Right now I don't even know if I will make the preview, and no I don't want them for myself. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Mar 15 22:39:28 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Wicat, Vax, at Boeing SoCal auction References: Message-ID: <00ed01c0add3$17054560$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:27 PM Subject: Wicat, Vax, at Boeing SoCal auction > another has Vax 8530 That's a big sucker. 1 full height cabinet for the CPU, plus another for the CIBCA if it was in a cluster. Needs a Pro380 console with the console card, software and the cable(s) to go with it. 3 phase out of the box. Never tried to do single phase conversion to my 8530, probably possible, though it would probably be a little hungry. Must have a look at that one day. I haven't spent much time on it as the former owners lost the console cable, and I've not been able to get another so far. I have the original Pro380 console (drive had died) but I found something that worked in it, and reinstalled the console software, so if I had a cable, it should work. DEC field circus guy once told me they used to have a lot of backplane problems, and were not that reliable, especially when they were getting on a bit. > Right now I don't even know if I will make the preview, and no I don't want > them for myself. BTW, I also have a common or garden Pro380 with POS on it, but it has a password. Anyone know if there is a breakin procedure for these somewhere/how? I'm toying with the idea of putting RT11 or something more exotic on it, it has an ethernet card..... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 15 19:15:05 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010316061509.OHYZ27964.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "ajp166" > To: > Subject: Re: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:24:13 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner > > >It was thus said that the Great Peter Joules once stated: > >> 3) snip > > That's a BIOS limitation; talk to IBM about that one---they only > allocated > >10 bits for sector number in the INT 13h disk IO call. > > > Wrong. 1024 was a hardware limitation of the early MFM controller cards > and the bios honored it. FYI it was CYLINDERS not sectors. 1024 sectors > would have only been 512k! This 1024 cyl thing is still haunting in any machines to this day, hence the crazy #'s of heads when 63 sectors is max'ed. The size soon will break through 100GB, We need better solution soon! :-) > >> 4) > >> Thy application program and data shall all fit in 640K of RAM. After > all, snip > > Other non -PC hardware such as Rainbow went out to 896k and some of the > S100 > based machines did the full meg using shadow rom. Don't forget the >640K hack on many Zenith XT machines. > >> 10) > >> Learn well the Vulcan Nerve Pinch (ctrl-alt-del) for it shall be thy > saviour > >> on many an occasion. Believe in thy heart that everyone reboots their > OS to > >> solve problems that shouldn't occur in the first place. > > > > Isn't that more of a Windows thing than an MS-DOS thing? Still have to do 3 finger salutes on DOS machines. I rememeber that decade ago. Now I do that without thinking when I have to kill the when netscape went zombie in winblows. > DOS being unprotected could crash, usually after the application > wiped it from memory like CP/M! Any unprotected OS would be > vunerable to being smashed by a runaway app. Correct. Even I can lock up that Eazy PC with one of own DOS command found in that dos directory, remember those / by 0 error in 40 columns due to quirky V40 cpu in that thing. > Experience with DOS 3.11 and 5.0 is that for an unprotected OS > it was fairly solid and not inclined to kill itself. I have two systems > that live as DOS with uptimes measured in months. Correct again, when programs is done to quality standards, DOS is utterly stable. > Allison Wizard (old dos user) From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 16 00:23:03 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > Experience with DOS 3.11 and 5.0 is that for an unprotected OS > it was fairly solid and not inclined to kill itself. I have two systems > that live as DOS with uptimes measured in months. It's all a matter of clean applications. The voicemail/auto-attendant system (DOS-based) I use at home is one I designed, and there isn't a single memory leak or null pointer write bug in it. It's completed and totally debugged and never crashes. It stays up for months, and only gets disturbed when I take it down to look in logs. I built automated collect call systems (DOS based) in my previous life and they were completely debugged as well. The only time the system ever went down is when we took it down for PM. I think the record was 4 months running, and it would've been longer but we took it down for PM. This was a complex application too, doing voice processing, serial communications, network datagrams over NetBIOS, etc. DOS has always been solid, as long as your applications were debugged. It was a good base upon which to build intensive system apps. You surely can't say the same about Windows. You can say the same about Linux :) My server has an uptime of 253 days. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spc at conman.org Fri Mar 16 01:55:09 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010316061509.OHYZ27964.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Mar 16, 2001 01:15:05 AM Message-ID: <200103160755.CAA20792@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great jpero@sympatico.ca once stated: > > > DOS being unprotected could crash, usually after the application > > wiped it from memory like CP/M! Any unprotected OS would be > > vunerable to being smashed by a runaway app. > > Correct. Even I can lock up that Eazy PC with one of own DOS command > found in that dos directory, remember those / by 0 error in 40 > columns due to quirky V40 cpu in that thing. Odd, that actually sounds like the program is jumping through a NULL long pointer. On the Intel x86 platform, the first interrupt vector is the Divide by 0 trap, and on the 8086/8088/80186, the vector table resides in the first 1K of memory, so an address of $0000:0000 (or $00000 depending upon how you write it) so jumping to that address gives the indication of a divide by zero exception. -spc (Remembers way more than he wants to 8-) From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Mar 16 03:13:30 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <20010316020625.17138@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3AB192EA.29546.1AEC7955@localhost> > I'm looking for the following Compute! disks for the Atari: > > Compute!'s Atari ST Disk > December 1987 Volume 2 No. 6 Issue 8 > > Compute!'s Atari ST Disk > February 1988 Volume 3 No. 1 Issue 9 > > > All I'm really interested in is the contents, so I'd be quite happy > with a copy. An .ST or .MSA file via email would be perfect. > > If anybody could help me out I'd appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com > What in particular did the disk contain that you were looking for. I don't have any of the "Compute" disks, but I do have a fair proportion of the ST Format, ST Review, and ST User disks, as well as some TAF library disks and a bunch of other programs. Heh Heh, It's been a while since I've seen the Magic Shadows extension and I don't remember what the .st one was. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Mar 16 03:13:30 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <00a301c0acc5$8ad65150$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Message-ID: <3AB192EA.19301.1AEC7914@localhost> Since I started collecting, originally only Ataris. I've always wanted a Portfolio and a STacy, but have never had the luck or cash available to acquire them. I still hang on to a smart parallel interface hoping the rest of it will turn up. So some time back, I had this list of all the Portfolio URLs I could find. Atari Portfolio FAQ, http://rzserv2.fh-lueneburg.de:8080/Port/port.faq Atari Portfolio-System, http://rzserv2.fh-lueneburg.de:8080/Portfolio Portfolio Page (UK), Atari Portfolio FAQ, http://rzserv2.fh-lueneburg.de:8080/Port/port.faq Atari Portfolio-System, http://rzserv2.fh-lueneburg.de:8080/Portfolio Portfolio Page (UK), http://www.mcc.ac.uk/~dlms/Port/portfolio.html Portfolio Links, http://www.port-home.com/portfol/pf_net.htm Toad Computers (USA) Atari Portfolio! http://www.ataricentral.com/portfolio/ Wizztronics stuff (64K mem + reader card for PCs), http://www.wizztronics.com/portfoli%20Main.htm On inspiration from your msg I checked them out and, of course none were still in existence altho the Links URL did lead to a German site with links to the UK Portfolio Club. I was concerned about the FAQs file and did a search. It returned the FAQs home and about 10 pages of URLs. More pages I'm sure than have ever been, on it. The Portfolio does indeed live. A couple of the key sites are FAQ portfolio.non.profit.pl/english/faq.htm Archives www.larwe.com/vintage/portfolio.html larry > Hi Jeff, > > Go to B&C Atari Sales & Service: www.myatari.com where you will > find ram > upgrades, software, parallel interfaces, serial interfaces and also > look into the HPC drive card interface which hooks up an ISA bus PC to > allow you to download files onto your PC from the internet, copy them > to a Portfolio drive card and then place that card into your Portfolio > as drive C:\ and use that data or program on your Portfolio. > > > Curt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hellige" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:12 PM > Subject: Atari Portfolio > > > > As of today, I'm the happy owner of an Atari Portfolio. Pretty > > neat > > little machine, with even a longer battery life than my Tandy 102. > > Due to it's small size, not as nice a keyboard though. Does anyone > > know where I can get additional 64k or 128k memory cards for it? It > > came with the parallel interface. Also, I've been told that the > > Portfolio is what was used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he > > broke into the ATM and the Cyberdine vault...is this true? > > > > Jeff > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From azog at azog.org Fri Mar 16 04:57:56 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <3AB192EA.19301.1AEC7914@localhost> Message-ID: I was once a big Atari fan. I had a TT030, and a Falcon030. I purchased the Falcon brand-new when Atari still was making computers (actually the Falcon was their last hoorah, and it "flopped"), from a semi-local dealer, what? 1993? What a wonderful machine this was - even by today's standards. I think the only thing that caused them to flub in the market was the 16MHz '030. I'm pretty sure fast '040's were available at that time. One thing I always (and still) wanted was an STBook, but I understand that an extremely low quantity of them were made, and seems that most of them ended up in EU (where Atari had a bigger base than in the US, my understanding). > > Since I started collecting, originally only Ataris. I've always wanted > a Portfolio and a STacy, but have never had the luck or cash > available to acquire them. I still hang on to a smart parallel > interface hoping the rest of it will turn up. > So some time back, I had this list of all the Portfolio URLs I could > find. From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Mar 16 07:42:00 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <3i1gatcdl2f9f1std6oln333bf0aabfmb4@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20010316134033.WCDV25982.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The best way I've got of fixing a Dallas RTC/NVRAM was discovered by trial and error. Both batt contacts are on one side. Tap out each side and ignore the batteries in the middle. One of the sides holds flatwire contacts that run to the internal cells. They are tiny so be careful with that drill. This process worked on the Dallas RTC/NVRAM chip I have in my Sparcstation 4/330. I have the 'real' part now but the fixed one is just as good if a little messier in appearance. When you have exposed the contacts, Cut them (if they haven't been allready by the Dremel ;-0) and solder an external battery pack (3volt to 4.5volt). Works like a charm and since the new batts are likely 1.5volt 'AA' types, the clock will operate forever. Well, for an awefully long time. Whatever you do, don't go through the bother of trying to replace the internal batts that way. It will take forever, and very likely you will destroy the chip trying it. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Mar 16 07:49:05 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <3AA7765B.7D0D7012@irit.fr> Message-ID: <20010316134619.WFPC25982.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> You can use the appropriate Dallas RTC/NVRAM for the SGThompson part no problem. Check cross-list for the correct Dallas part and order up. My Sparc is running a Dallas chip these days. The reason why they are expensive is that there were several years of very low demand. About 1 1/2 years ago, all those deployed chips started failing due to exhausted batteries. SG had stopped production and so had Dallas. Both are ramped up for them once again and the chips are available, but creating new production cost them a bit and they pass that on to you plus a healthy, healthy profit to them..... I've seen them range from $15.00 to $60.00 depending on your vendor. Try calling Dallas Semiconductor directly. That is how I got the best price and they are friendly people. SG Thompson is not so friendly...... Regards,, Jeff In <3AA7765B.7D0D7012@irit.fr>, on 03/16/01 at 08:49 AM, Ralph SOBEK said: >Hi all! >Just curious, but are are the prices of these Sun NVRAM timer chips these >days? I am looking for a replacement >for the old SG Thompson M48T02 chip. Here in France they are on the >order of $45-50!! What has happened >to last year's $20-28 ? Are the Dallas chips identical to the ST ones, >as concerns a Sun? > --Ralph >-- >Dr. Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are >my own. Ralph.Sobek @ irit.fr >sobek @ irit.fr >http://beeline.to/genealogy/ Ph:(+33)[0]561556356 FAX:(+33)[0]561556847 >http://www.irit.fr/~Ralph.Sobek/ >=============================================================================== >Estimates are that one-third to two-thirds of animal and plant species >will disappear in forseeable future! AWFUL! > SPAMMERS Beware: >http://www.irit.fr/~Ralph.Sobek/welcome.shtml#Mail-Warning >-- -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 16 07:58:50 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Found a Commodore SX-64 but with a strange problem. In-Reply-To: References: <3AB1298C.7741.4FC195BB@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Mar 15, 1 08:43:56 pm Message-ID: <3AB22A2A.29720.53AC01F9@localhost> > > The SX is, beside some minor changes and a complete different > > layout just a way ordinay 64 - so no special chips - grap > > another 64 and exchange the chips - basicly everything > > may be damaged .... except the RAM - RAM errors are quite rare. > > All relevant chips are socketed. > FWIW, the only fault I have ever had with my C128 was bad RAM -- bit 2 > IIRC. It caused some strange screen displays, and the machine kept on > crashing to the monitor, etc. Well, given a million 64s we may experiance every possible and impossible fault :)) > Fortunately, the RAMs were standard 64K*1 parts that I have lots of... Jep. I lifted a C64 Memory to repair my Apple ][+ (it's a handmade 192 K Version :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Mar 16 08:04:03 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010302090820.A686@sd160.local> Message-ID: <20010316140039.WOIE25982.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> There was mention in the previous message of a rotting feed roller. If you have a rotten one, I doubt sandpaper is going to help in the long-run. You will need to replace it. I had a bad drive roller in my Data General cartridge tape drive a couple of years ago. The drive worked a couple of times, then the roller disintigrated and ate a couple of tapes before I realized. I found a replacement roller in one of the output rollers from my Epson Action Printer 3250. I removed this roller from the action printer, streached it over the body of a ballpoint pen, then removed the nose from the pen. After cutting off the gooey old drive roller and cleaning the stem with iso alcohol and fingernail polish remover, I placed the flat nose of the pen body against the shaft and slid my replacement roller on. Works like a charm. Regards,, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From owad at applefritter.com Fri Mar 16 08:19:24 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <3AB192EA.29546.1AEC7955@localhost> References: <3AB192EA.29546.1AEC7955@localhost> Message-ID: <20010316141924.5256@mail.earthlink.net> >What in particular did the disk contain that you were looking for. > I don't have any of the "Compute" disks, but I do have a fair >proportion of the ST Format, ST Review, and ST User disks, as >well as some TAF library disks and a bunch of other programs. > Heh Heh, It's been a while since I've seen the Magic Shadows >extension and I don't remember what the .st one was. .ST is the disk image format used with PowerST and NoSTalgia on the Mac, and PaCifiST and STonX (I think) on the PC. I'm looking for: > Compute!'s Atari ST Disk > December 1987 Volume 2 No. 6 Issue 8 A two-player shareware game in which each player controls a basketball with legs. The basketballs left and right and try to jump up and bounce off the other basketball to land in one of the three baskets on the screen. The game is called "name1 and name2" with the names being the names of the basketballs. Unfortunately, I can't remember them and a Google search for "and" didn't turn up what I was looking for. > Compute!'s Atari ST Disk > February 1988 Volume 3 No. 1 Issue 9 Atom Smashers (an old breakout game; probably shareware). Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 16 08:29:38 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AB23162.14387.53C83499@localhost> > >Other non -PC hardware such as Rainbow went out to 896k and some of the > >S100 based machines did the full meg using shadow rom. > Two Tandy products that come to mind that could be take up to > 768k are the Model 2000 and the 1000HX. The only real benefit for > doing it on either of them was for RAM disks though. Like the PCjr, > the 1000HX used part of it's RAM for the video adapter as well. Both > shipped with thier own specific versions of DOS 2.11. The eternal Siemens PC-D has up to 960 K continious DOS Mem (992 with B&W Bios) ... ad 1024 K when using an inofficial Version and the Character Grafics Adaptor (which was in fact an enhanced VT 220 on a slot board :). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Mar 16 08:40:33 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AB233F1.17645.53D23014@localhost> > > Experience with DOS 3.11 and 5.0 is that for an unprotected OS > > it was fairly solid and not inclined to kill itself. I have two systems > > that live as DOS with uptimes measured in months. > It's all a matter of clean applications. The voicemail/auto-attendant > system (DOS-based) I use at home is one I designed, and there isn't a > single memory leak or null pointer write bug in it. It's completed and > totally debugged and never crashes. It stays up for months, and only gets > disturbed when I take it down to look in logs. > [...] I think the record was 4 months > running, and it would've been longer but we took it down for PM. This was > a complex application too, doing voice processing, serial communications, > network datagrams over NetBIOS, etc. > You can say the same about Linux :) My server has an uptime of 253 days. Well, I did a dial in system for a fiels servis application - up to 32 modem ports, where the laptop (8085 based Tandy M100, Nec or Olivetti, later PCs) did some kind of APPC with one or more main frame application - I had to do add a small multi tasking system atop of DOS, and this baby did run quite fine on a 286 System .... maximum Uptime of one of the systems (they where installed in several European countries) was a bit more than THREE YEARS. And this machine in particular (in Spain) has only been shutdown to be replaced by a new Unix system .... They needed a 17,000 $ Hardware to replace my 3,000$ Sytem :))) and ... well, communication was slower and a bit more line drops :)) Anyway, Dos can be a quite stable base. Gruss H. P.S.: One of the features I still like most was the self debugging version for 485/25 CPUs ... The app did singlestep itself in real time. So I got finaly great traces wehn anything went wrong - a feature known from some aminframe systems which I still miss a lot in actual PC systems. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From gkrone at pacbell.net Fri Mar 16 09:43:44 2001 From: gkrone at pacbell.net (gkrone@pacbell.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies workSlate Message-ID: <3AB234B0.50BF64B0@postoffice.pacbell.net> re request for workslate stuff - have a cassette or two would maybe trade for the box that split the output into serial and parallel - or perhaps just the diagram that shows how to route this without the box - back in its day i saw an article where somebody did this quite easily but i lost track of it From leec at slip.net Fri Mar 16 09:57:18 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: VCF Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sam, Last weekend I acquired from Eric Smith a VAX-785. What are the chances of getting three-phase power at the upcoming VCF, and do you have a ball park figure on cost? Moving the VAX again would be a huge pain, but I thought I'd at least ask the most important gating question on exhibiting it (running of course, why bother otherwise) at VCF. BTW - you know Dag is leaving the History Center? :-( Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Mar 16 11:05:09 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Dag leaving? (was Re: VCF Question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Lee Courtney wrote: > BTW - you know Dag is leaving the History Center? :-( Ummm... say what?!?!?! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 16 12:52:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: What do you people use for tape cleaning ? In-Reply-To: <20010316140039.WOIE25982.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Mar 16, 1 09:04:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3974 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010316/c5e18260/attachment.ksh From greg at ciswired.com Fri Mar 16 13:34:45 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: SDI cabling question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's what I have: RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for each port (A/B). The cables terminate at the drive on one end and at a small metal box on the other end. The small metal box has two sockets on it (denoted with "*" in the picture below): Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |------------[]* | Drive |------------[]* +----------+ "B" cable UDA50 controller in 11/44 with four sets of orange cables coming out of it and terminating in a four-port socket set (denoted "*" in picture below) in a larger metal box at the back of the cabinet: Larger metal box / / *[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- What I have tried: I unscrewed the black cables from the small metal box and plugged one of them directly into one of the ports on the larger metal box: +----------+ "A" cable | RA81 |----------------| | Drive |----------[]* | +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- That didn't work (I tried it with two different drives and cable sets). The operating system (2.11BSD) sees the UDA50 but does not see the drive (which is spun up and "ready"). I did a little searching on the internet and found a couple of cryptic discussions. What I surmised from the discussions was that you cannot directly connect the drive cable to the bulkhead box on the computer cabinet. It seems you need a third cable to act as an intermediary as such: Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |----------[]*---| | Drive |----------[]* | <--- New THIRD ("external?") cable +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- Is that right? If so, where can I find one of these external cables and/or is it possible to manufacture one from a bit of ribbon cable an a couple of commonly available plugs? The sockets denoted by "*" appear to be AMD bastardizations of common PC board plugs like the ones one would find connecting a console port plug. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Mar 16 14:23:30 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:15 2005 Subject: Fwd: Sell Old PCs to the Egyptian and African markets Message-ID: My wife probably believes that I might be able to fill a container with all of my stuff, of course she hasn't been up in the garage attic. My local computer surplus sends stuff to China, the stuff must be salvage, I have seen then take a hammer to a HP 4si case so that it was salvage. The last stuff in the container gets inspected by the customs staff in LA. I have seen a HP MO jukebox in the same container. They get about $5000 for an entire container. I asked about buying a container for a month and sorting the stuff and then giving it back to them for a total of $200 for the small amount of stuff I took out. No go. Lots of keyboards, CGA monitors, dot-matrix printers, IBM mainframe terminals in a load. Most of the stuff this spam asked for wouldn't be available a any surplus place I've seen. The local schools get 200 MHz Pentiums and any disks over 1 GB. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Mar 16 16:31:02 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Interesting Wall St. Journal article today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On the front page was an article about how ignoring the current web trendiness and sticking with a traditional minicomputer and established sales techniques has worked well for various companies. The article talks about the AS/400 but the it is true for VMS, MPE or whatever. Sorry the details are sketchy but I don't have it in front of me. -- From azog at azog.org Fri Mar 16 17:12:18 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Probably OT - 3480 tapes Message-ID: <002501c0ae6e$8ce000e0$0a00a8c0@azog> I know some of you are IBM ironheads. I've got three packages of 10-packs of 3480 tape carts. Anyone interested in these, before they go out in the trash next week? From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 16 18:20:40 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: VCF 5.0 date? References: <3AB13090.1952.4FDCFDD8@localhost> Message-ID: <00ea01c0ae78$1b80ac60$59721fd1@default> Thanks for the tips. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Franke" To: Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: Re: VCF 5.0 date? > > So far there has been very little interest from people in this area and > > the States around us. After asking for help on this list I got only two > > responses one person is working with me and the other said he would come > > if we had it depending on the dates. But other wise we could really > > tell how people would come here for the show. We could not get sponsors > > without numbers to show a return on their investment. If nothing breaks > > for us soon we will have wait until another time. > > Well, that's the usual dilema for any new venture - Even guys > like Benz and Ford had some problems to sell the idea of owning > a self driven vehicle .... > > No, serious - I had the very same problem with VCFe 1.0. You > will never get an even balance at your first try (and I will > be happy if any time). But Money isn't only the thing to hassle. > You have to balance two groups of people - your visitors _and_ > your exhibitors. If you, for example manage to get a whooping > publicity and thousands of visitors, but you only have a few > things on display, nobody will show up for version 2.0 - and > the very same is true for your exhibitors - one may manage to > round up every collector between Buffalo and Salt Lake City, > but they won't come again if you can't herd in enough cattle > ... err visitors. > > So the only way is to go ahead and try it at a friendly > neightborhood sized version - a litte bit advertisement, > and everything at a lever where it doesn't cost you more > than lat's say a great vacation. After all, it is some > kind of work out vacation :) > > VCFe 1.0 was made a reasonable success that way (and many > thanks to Sallam, who did help quite a lot), and VCFe 2.0 > will now be a even bigger success ... only six more weeks ! > > And it even looks like we may fork a second VCF site alteady > next year in another European country. > > You got to take the flag and carry it on - > There's no way to loose, only to miss a chance. > > Err... let's say I got carried away :=) > > Servus > H. > > > > > -- > VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen > http://www.vintage.org/vcfe > http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Mar 16 18:23:27 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Wicat, Vax, at Boeing SoCal auction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Where did you find the bid list at? On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Digging through the bid sheet on a Boeing (Long Beach CA) auction (bids due > before 22nd) I found a couple items I thought I should mention to the list. > > mainframe computer equipment, consisting of base system mfr: Wicat pallet > #955 CCN: F85002HA > > another has 2 pieces of HP 9000 > > another has Vax 8530 > > Right now I don't even know if I will make the preview, and no I don't want > them for myself. > > > > From r.stek at snet.net Fri Mar 16 19:34:19 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: New find - Poor Man's Network - - for CP/M! Message-ID: I just came across a piece of software I don't remember from 1987. It is called "Poor Man's Network: A Networking Package for CP/M Computers." It was put out by Anderson Techno-Products of Ottawa, Ontario. Judging from the manual, it appears to have been a one- or two-man operation (nothin' wrong with that - been there, done that). It uses standard serial or parallel ports and is based upon a very modified Christensen protocol to communicate with itself on the other computer (it only support two computers - after all, you couldn't afford more than two computers if you were really poor ). It's capabilities seem to have been to allow allow read and/or write access to files on the other computer (handy for those NorthStar hard-sector disk file transfers to and from 8" drives, for example), sharing drives on the other computer on a R/O basis, redirecting output to use the other computer's printer or plotter, sending one-line messages to the other computer, and the ability to send screen messages and data mesaages to the other computer and to receive data messages from the remote computer (simultaneous read and/or update a database using added BDOS calls). Sharing was on a drive basis only. It took up about 7-8k memory and worked with CP/M 2.2, ZRDOS or equivalent. Has anyone had any experience with this gem? Or even remember it? Were there others like it? By '87 I had become enmeshed in the IBM-Microsoft world, and don't remember this one at all! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 16 20:40:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to Wizard, I have aquired a keyboard for my P70 finally and gotten it functional. I had to swap out the floppy drive first but after that everything went great. I had forgotten how long it took to install OS/2 Warp Ver. 3 from floppies! I've not installed either the Etherlink or SCSI card yet, but it's running OS/2 on the original 120 meg HD, 8meg of RAM, and the 40mhz 486SXL2 CPU upgrade. Boot time was cut dramatically once I installed the Evergreen cache software for the new CPU. All in all, a pretty nifty little system. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rdd at smart.net Fri Mar 16 20:56:05 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: New find - Poor Man's Network - - for CP/M! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Bob Stek wrote: > It uses standard serial or parallel ports and is based upon a very modified > Christensen protocol to communicate with itself on the other computer (it > only support two computers - after all, you couldn't afford more than two > computers if you were really poor ). It's capabilities seem to have been Nice find! Hmmm... idea: Run this on an MP/M system with about 8 or 16 ports, and then you can have a network of quite a few CP/M and MP/M systems. :-) Out of curiosity, does anyone here know of any attempts to write a TCP/IP stack for MP/M boxen? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 16 21:18:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) Message-ID: <001001c0ae91$27ef9ec0$6a769a8d@ajp166> From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner > Ah, that's what I get for not double checking the reference material. In >looking over it, it is indeed 10 bits for cylinder and six bits for sector >number. ;) you forgot the 4bits for head select. Allison From curt at atari-history.com Fri Mar 16 21:20:18 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: New find - Poor Man's Network - - for CP/M! References: Message-ID: <002501c0ae91$3167c8b0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Bob, That sounds very cool. Have you found any sources on the web of more info concerning it??? I'm into the old Corvus constellation equipment myself. There used to be a language lab in the Fordham Prep school in the Bronx, NY that had 64 Atari 800's connected to a single 10mb hard disk and autobooted from it using a modified OS board called "The Integrator" designed by David Small. A few years back I checked in with the gentleman who maintained the lab, sadly he turned the lab over to another person since he had a new job at the school. Well the idiot who took over the lab threw everything out because he thought it would be better to have brand new PC's in the lab. Damned shame!!! So lets hear more about this CP/M networking, very very intriquing :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Stek" To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:34 PM Subject: New find - Poor Man's Network - - for CP/M! > I just came across a piece of software I don't remember from 1987. It is > called "Poor Man's Network: A Networking Package for CP/M Computers." It > was put out by Anderson Techno-Products of Ottawa, Ontario. Judging from > the manual, it appears to have been a one- or two-man operation (nothin' > wrong with that - been there, done that). > > It uses standard serial or parallel ports and is based upon a very modified > Christensen protocol to communicate with itself on the other computer (it > only support two computers - after all, you couldn't afford more than two > computers if you were really poor ). It's capabilities seem to have been > to allow allow read and/or write access to files on the other computer > (handy for those NorthStar hard-sector disk file transfers to and from 8" > drives, for example), sharing drives on the other computer on a R/O basis, > redirecting output to use the other computer's printer or plotter, sending > one-line messages to the other computer, and the ability to send screen > messages and data mesaages to the other computer and to receive data > messages from the remote computer (simultaneous read and/or update a > database using added BDOS calls). Sharing was on a drive basis only. It > took up about 7-8k memory and worked with CP/M 2.2, ZRDOS or equivalent. > > Has anyone had any experience with this gem? Or even remember it? Were > there others like it? By '87 I had become enmeshed in the IBM-Microsoft > world, and don't remember this one at all! > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > > From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Mar 16 21:24:20 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <20010316141924.5256@mail.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Mar 16, 2001 09:19:24 AM Message-ID: <200103170324.TAA05787@eskimo.com> > I'm looking for: > > > Compute!'s Atari ST Disk > > December 1987 Volume 2 No. 6 Issue 8 > > A two-player shareware game in which each player controls a basketball > with legs. The basketballs left and right and try to jump up and bounce > off the other basketball to land in one of the three baskets on the > screen. The game is called "name1 and name2" with the names being the > names of the basketballs. Unfortunately, I can't remember them and a > Google search for "and" didn't turn up what I was looking for. Basketball Sam and Ed. I have a copy, but it's for the Apple ][ and it hasn't been typed in yet! (I photocopied it from a COMPUTE! issue.) See http://feroce.multimania.com/Pages/Automation.html followed by any of the usual ST game archives. -- Derek From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 16 21:37:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Need software and/or docs for print server Message-ID: Have an Eagle Technologies NPE400 single place print server that I have no software for, just the adapter and server. It's a cigarette pack sized box that hooks onto the parallel port and has a BNC and RJ45 on back. If anyone has a source it would be appreciated as I plan on taking this donated unit and using it for my daughter's school as a donation of equipment and time to free up a machine they need that presently gets tied up with print jobs. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 16 21:42:52 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You know the P70 hardware manual is online at IBM at http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html and the book is in HTML Bookmanager format or downloadable PDF format as the Portabel Systems HMM Volume I. Very handy and yes the P70 is a neat little unit. My wife starting tinkering on mine and now I can't get it away from her, especially after the 486 upgrade and Win95 OSR2 on a 160mb drive and 16mb ram. I just added an Etherlink MC card and now the same woman that says she doesn't have need for a network is tied to it and wreaking havoc! => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige => Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:40 PM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: PS/2 P70 => => => Thanks to Wizard, I have aquired a keyboard for my P70 => finally and gotten it functional. I had to swap out the floppy drive => first but after that everything went great. I had forgotten how long => it took to install OS/2 Warp Ver. 3 from floppies! I've not => installed either the Etherlink or SCSI card yet, but it's running => OS/2 on the original 120 meg HD, 8meg of RAM, and the 40mhz 486SXL2 => CPU upgrade. Boot time was cut dramatically once I installed the => Evergreen cache software for the new CPU. All in all, a pretty nifty => little system. => => Jeff => -- => Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: => Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File => http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 => From claudew at videotron.ca Sat Mar 17 22:08:46 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Complete Apple IIgs Tech Reference from Apple Pubs for trade...again Message-ID: <005001c0af61$214f2f60$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Well I had an very interesting trade offer for a trade for these and I have been without news from the person in a long time now so these are up for trade again. I am sure they can be appreciated by someone. I have no real use for these myself and I am going low on space and wife also low on tolerance of space used up in basement by my collection. So here they are again, all the reference books by Apple Official Pubs for the IIgs and IIgs OS....most in excellent condition. Some (1 or 2) with the occassionnal very very rare pen or pencil scribbling. Some have seperated from the hardcover but its nothing a little glue cant fix...Some hardcover, some soft...Hardcovers all have paper cover intact... Here is the list...: Apple II GS... Hardware Reference (hard) Tech Intro to the Apple IIgs (soft) Firmware Reference (hard) Toolbox Reference Vol.1 (hard) Toolbox Reference Vol.2 (hard) Toolbox Reference Vol.3 (soft) Programmers Intro to the Apple IIgs (hard) Prodos 16 Reference (hard) GS/OS Reference (soft) >From Apple pubs but Non Apple IIgs specific but I can throw in: Prodos Reference Manual (soft) Apple Numerics Manual (soft) Imagewriter II technical Ref Manual (hard) Also if your gonna be doing 65816 coding I can add: 65816/65802 Ass. Lang. Programming (Fischer) Programming the 65816 (Labiak) This is a archive box full of big clean books. I wanna move these out. Please no money offers. I dont sell stuff, I only trade. I dont buy or sell on ebay. I am looking for 197x-198x micros to add to my collection. Would consider stuff like : Next, Apple III, TRS80 mod I and similar, Atari 1200xl, PET CBM, Kaypro, Osborne...CP/M systems etc...just ask me...I guess. Shipping is from Montreal, Canada -- nothing dramatic. Many trades with US collectors in past and never any problems. Ill be happy to trade these books to someone who can make good use of these. Claude -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010317/dc55bc06/attachment.html From owad at applefritter.com Fri Mar 16 22:31:46 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <200103170324.TAA05787@eskimo.com> References: <200103170324.TAA05787@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20010317043146.24746@mail.earthlink.net> >Basketball Sam and Ed. I have a copy, but it's for the Apple ][ and it >hasn't been typed in yet! (I photocopied it from a COMPUTE! issue.) That's it! Thanks. I found a copy for the Commodore 64 at: , though as I recall the Atari ST version was prettier. If you ever get around to typing in the Apple II version, I'd appreciate a copy of source. >See http://feroce.multimania.com/Pages/Automation.html followed by any >of the usual ST game archives. Thanks! Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 16 23:13:27 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <200103170324.TAA05787@eskimo.com> from Derek Peschel at "Mar 16, 1 07:24:20 pm" Message-ID: <200103170513.VAA08402@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Basketball Sam and Ed. I have a copy, but it's for the Apple ][ and it > hasn't been typed in yet! (I photocopied it from a COMPUTE! issue.) Actually, it was originally for the C64, I think. I have it myself -- but for the C64, natch :-) Fun game -- the C64 version even came with a customiser to write your own scoreboard messages and set screen colours. We did black on black and called it "Night Sam & Ed". -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I'm an amateur orthinologist. I just love word-botching. ------------------- From donm at cts.com Fri Mar 16 23:56:07 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 Message-ID: I am trying to un-stuff a driver for the Stylewriter 1200 (the driver itself is actually for the 1500 color unit) but Stuffit 1.5.1 cannot handle the driver's .sit archive. This is being attempted on an SE30 under 7.0.1 OS. Unfortunately, I am not able to find anything on Aladdin that will update that 'early bird'. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to how to solve my dilemna? Thanks, - don From jimdavis at gorge.net Sat Mar 17 00:24:32 2001 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks References: <200103170513.VAA08402@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3AB30320.A9576055@gorge.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- I'm an amateur orthinologist. I just love word-botching. ------------------- Isn't it dislexic amateur orthinololgist? Jim Davis. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Mar 17 02:24:43 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Dallas module battery replacement... In-Reply-To: <20010314063222.KZJJ20895.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010317082443.72712.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > I have, in an emergency, removed the old battery and added my own. All you > > have to is cut through the epoxy on the ends where the battery leads go > > down > > > > -ethan > > A plea: > > To Ethan and others who bypassed their dallas or clones modules then > wired to fresh lithium battery. *Please,* snap > pictures of your mods and post it on web somewhere to see what it is > like. As soon as I can find it, I'll do that (I recently packed up all my "must have" stuff and carted it across the Midwest only to find the job I'd left for did not materialize as promised. I'm still recovering from the hasty packing/unpacking). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 17 02:47:54 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: RFC: ROM dump archive Message-ID: Computer garage sale Sat 17, So Cal Sat 17th of March, in Orange CA my amazingly full garage of computer and related stuff will be open and on sale for the first time since last summer (next one is July). I live about 10 miles east of Disneyland, in the foothills of Orange, CA. Take the 22 east til it ends, and that becomes the 55 freeway Chapman exit. Go east on Chapman a couple miles, and Chapman will bend to the left and go up a hill. Half way up turn right on Canyon View, then left on Brynhurst into the Chapman Townhomes. A short driveway, then left on the unmarked Stonebrook, a few houses then the road turns right and becomes Cadbury. I am at the end in the cul de sac 6036 Cadbury. About a third of the whole complex is planning on opening for sale about 7 am (I will NOT be ready that early, but feel free to stop and watch me work) so there will be more than just all my computer stuff. This is a link to yahoo maps for me. Questions until the portable phone runs out of juice at (714) 771-7504 What the heck is in this garage to get me to drive all the way to Orange? Lots, mostly lots. AT&T old desktops, likely 386 Compaq and Dell up to about a P120, lots of great 486 boxes for Linux routers etc. a dozen IBM PS2 9595 servers, multiSCSI drive units, various cards Apple IIe, IIc, IIc+ and IIgs computers, joysticks, cables, etc. At least 2 dozen monitors, MOSTLY older, but great for older macs or workstations. Networking stuff, loads of 10bt cables, hubs, nics (nubus, isa, PCI, EISA, MCA). Rack mount PC chassis, keyboards, mice, and things. Software, a BIG box of $1 CDs, and many many boxes of weird software $1 Close to 2,000 different computer cables, Apple, PC, SCSI, serial, printer, starting at $1 50 macintosh computers, from plus to PPC, lots of odd bits and one of a kind items. Printers, and ribbons, and various printer parts, imagewriters, Laserwriters, stylewriters, old dot matrix. C64, Atari, just cause I didn't mention it, that doesn't mean I don't have a pile of it. ;) Around noon things will wind down, but last year it took me 4 hours to put stuff away, so I will be "around" much longer. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sat Mar 17 02:59:59 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <20010317043146.24746@mail.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Mar 16, 2001 11:31:46 PM Message-ID: <200103170859.AAA23121@eskimo.com> Tom Owad wrote: > If you ever get around to typing in the Apple II version, I'd appreciate > a copy of source. It's just a hex dump of the machine language (with checksums -- COMPUTE! published a program called MLX to verify them, and a similar one for BASIC listings). It does have a description though. > >See http://feroce.multimania.com/Pages/Automation.html followed by any > >of the usual ST game archives. > > Thanks! Why were you wasting your time with the Commodore version when you could have the Atari version? :) Sorry, Cameron... yes, the C64 version is more flexible, but the ST version does look nicer. From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sat Mar 17 03:06:00 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: COMPUTE! and printing (was: Re: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks) In-Reply-To: <20010317043146.24746@mail.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Mar 16, 2001 11:31:46 PM Message-ID: <200103170906.BAA23515@eskimo.com> I was thinking about COMPUTE!'s checksum programs and then thinking that their software was sometimes very good and then rememberng how nice their magazine looked too. _That_ got me wonderng about the hardware/software they used to lay out and print their magazines. Does anyone know anything about that? Or similar systems of the era? From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Mar 17 03:09:07 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: somewhat OT Message-ID: <200103170909.CAA05579@calico.litterbox.com> Well, Macs have been around for more than 10 years, and lpd/lpr certainly has... Does anyone know how to set up a mac to talk to an lpd with an inkjet printer on the other end? I know the printer works in this configuration as I've tested it from another machine on the LAN. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 17 04:03:19 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Computer garage sale Sat 17, So Cal Message-ID: Please pardon me for the double post, I messed up the subject last time. Free copy of Egor the Animator to all offended parties. Computer garage sale Sat 17, So Cal Sat 17th of March, in Orange CA my amazingly full garage of computer and related stuff will be open and on sale for the first time since last summer (next one is July). I live about 10 miles east of Disneyland, in the foothills of Orange, CA. Take the 22 east til it ends, and that becomes the 55 freeway Chapman exit. Go east on Chapman a couple miles, and Chapman will bend to the left and go up a hill. Half way up turn right on Canyon View, then left on Brynhurst into the Chapman Townhomes. A short driveway, then left on the unmarked Stonebrook, a few houses then the road turns right and becomes Cadbury. I am at the end in the cul de sac 6036 Cadbury. About a third of the whole complex is planning on opening for sale about 7 am (I will NOT be ready that early, but feel free to stop and watch me work) so there will be more than just all my computer stuff. This is a link to yahoo maps for me. Questions until the portable phone runs out of juice at (714) 771-7504 What the heck is in this garage to get me to drive all the way to Orange? Lots, mostly lots. AT&T old desktops, likely 386 Compaq and Dell up to about a P120, lots of great 486 boxes for Linux routers etc. a dozen IBM PS2 9595 servers, multiSCSI drive units, various cards Apple IIe, IIc, IIc+ and IIgs computers, joysticks, cables, etc. At least 2 dozen monitors, MOSTLY older, but great for older macs or workstations. Networking stuff, loads of 10bt cables, hubs, nics (nubus, isa, PCI, EISA, MCA). Rack mount PC chassis, keyboards, mice, and things. Software, a BIG box of $1 CDs, and many many boxes of weird software $1 Close to 2,000 different computer cables, Apple, PC, SCSI, serial, printer, starting at $1 50 macintosh computers, from plus to PPC, lots of odd bits and one of a kind items. Printers, and ribbons, and various printer parts, imagewriters, Laserwriters, stylewriters, old dot matrix. C64, Atari, just cause I didn't mention it, that doesn't mean I don't have a pile of it. ;) Around noon things will wind down, but last year it took me 4 hours to put stuff away, so I will be "around" much longer. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Mar 17 08:41:16 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <200103170859.AAA23121@eskimo.com> from Derek Peschel at "Mar 17, 1 00:59:59 am" Message-ID: <200103171441.GAA10430@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Why were you wasting your time with the Commodore version when you could > have the Atari version? :) Sorry, Cameron... yes, the C64 version is more > flexible, but the ST version does look nicer. *gasp* Infidel. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Mar 17 08:44:34 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <3AB30320.A9576055@gorge.net> from Jim Davis at "Mar 16, 1 10:24:32 pm" Message-ID: <200103171444.GAA08660@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Cameron Kaiser wrote: [courtesy of my sig rotator] > > I'm an amateur orthinologist. I just love word-botching. > Isn't it dislexic amateur orthinololgist? Quite right! I'll change it in the tag database. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Eat healthy, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY! ----------------------------------------- From menadeau at mediaone.net Sat Mar 17 09:49:28 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: COMPUTE! and printing (was: Re: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks) References: <200103170906.BAA23515@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <001501c0aef9$dd28c420$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I can't speak for Compute, but the early computer magazines I worked on did not use the systems they wrote about for anything other than word processing during production. Desktop publishing in the early to mid 80s didn't have the polish necessary for a glossy magazine. Instead, we used specialized systems from companies such as Compugraphic (the best, IMO) and Addressograph. These were essentially minicomputers serving as dedicated publishing systems. Compugraphic (and I think the others) used SGML as the markup language. Input was performed by a staff of typesetters who keyed in the copy that we produced on our micros. Output was photographic hardcopy that was manually pasted on boards and shipped to the printer. It's amazing how things have changed. Today, with direct to plate technology, you can produce an entire magazine on your desktop and email it to the printer. BYTE did turn to Macs and Pagemaker (I think) by the late 80s, but still relied heavily on a horrible Atex system to manage workflow. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Peschel" To: Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 4:06 AM Subject: COMPUTE! and printing (was: Re: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks) > I was thinking about COMPUTE!'s checksum programs and then thinking that > their software was sometimes very good and then rememberng how nice their > magazine looked too. _That_ got me wonderng about the hardware/software > they used to lay out and print their magazines. Does anyone know anything > about that? Or similar systems of the era? > From owad at applefritter.com Sat Mar 17 11:14:36 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <200103170859.AAA23121@eskimo.com> References: <200103170859.AAA23121@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20010317171436.26612@mail.earthlink.net> >> >See http://feroce.multimania.com/Pages/Automation.html followed by any >> >of the usual ST game archives. >> >> Thanks! > >Why were you wasting your time with the Commodore version when you could >have the Atari version? :) Sorry, Cameron... yes, the C64 version is more >flexible, but the ST version does look nicer. I didn't even realize that flashing advertisement-sized banner was a download link. I thought the page just listed compatabilities. It's downloading now, though; thanks. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 17 11:30:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: COMPUTE! and printing (was: Re: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks) In-Reply-To: <001501c0aef9$dd28c420$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> References: <200103170906.BAA23515@eskimo.com> <001501c0aef9$dd28c420$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: About 10 years ago I ran across and Apple ][ that was set up with the Gerber sign making hardware and software. At that point, I had only seen their stuff on Windows-based systems controlling some pretty large plotters that had been converted for cutting out the vinyl signs and lettering. Passed on it due to the price they had it marked at. It was a pretty impressive setup though. Jeff >I can't speak for Compute, but the early computer magazines I worked on did >not use the systems they wrote about for anything other than word processing >during production. Desktop publishing in the early to mid 80s didn't have >the polish necessary for a glossy magazine. Instead, we used specialized >systems from companies such as Compugraphic (the best, IMO) and >Addressograph. These were essentially minicomputers serving as dedicated >publishing systems. Compugraphic (and I think the others) used SGML as the >markup language. Input was performed by a staff of typesetters who keyed in >the copy that we produced on our micros. Output was photographic hardcopy >that was manually pasted on boards and shipped to the printer. It's amazing >how things have changed. Today, with direct to plate technology, you can >produce an entire magazine on your desktop and email it to the printer. > >BYTE did turn to Macs and Pagemaker (I think) by the late 80s, but still >relied heavily on a horrible Atex system to manage workflow. > >--Mike > >Michael Nadeau >Editorial Services >603-893-2379 -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 17 11:34:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >You know the P70 hardware manual is online at IBM at >http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html and the book is in HTML Bookmanager >format or downloadable PDF format as the Portabel Systems HMM Volume I. Very >handy and yes the P70 is a neat little unit. My wife starting tinkering on >mine and now I can't get it away from her, especially after the 486 upgrade >and Win95 OSR2 on a 160mb drive and 16mb ram. I just added an Etherlink MC >card and now the same woman that says she doesn't have need for a network is >tied to it and wreaking havoc! Thanks for the pointer. I knew the hardware manual was out there. It should prove interesting setting up the ethernet under OS/2. I've only used it for dialup before. Speaking of which, could one of you OS/2 types on the list send me the email program PMMAIL? Or is there a nicer email client out at this point? Too bad there's not an OS/2 native version of Eudora. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Mar 17 13:02:52 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: IBM System 36 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010317135945.00a60310@mail.wincom.net> I have just been offered a System 36 for my collection, (no charge and delivered. ) Can any one give me any information about this computer? Thanks Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Mar 17 14:59:15 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 17, 2001 12:34:38 pm" Message-ID: <200103172059.f2HKxG701275@bg-tc-ppp1403.monmouth.com> > Thanks for the pointer. I knew the hardware manual was out > there. It should prove interesting setting up the ethernet under > OS/2. I've only used it for dialup before. Speaking of which, could > one of you OS/2 types on the list send me the email program PMMAIL? > Or is there a nicer email client out at this point? Too bad there's > not an OS/2 native version of Eudora. > > Jeff There's always Eudora Light v3.6 in a Win/OS2 session. I'd love to see Eudora 5.x up on OS/2 but don't even consider asking for it anymore... I'm tired of being laughed at. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sat Mar 17 14:55:14 2001 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I am trying to un-stuff a driver for the Stylewriter 1200 (the driver >itself is actually for the 1500 color unit) but Stuffit 1.5.1 cannot >handle the driver's .sit archive. Try a newer version... The current version is 6.0. Stuffit Expander is free, but it's starting to become a rather large download. The application itself is nearly 4MB. But of course you don't really NEED the absolute latest version, so I would try to find a copy of 4.0 or something close. It's a bit smaller IIRC, and it works with newer versions. I remember running into some old 1.5 stuff a while back on an older machine and for whatever reason they don't open newer stuff. I don't keep track, so I'm not sure which version made the change. Don't ask me where to find 4.0... I keep all my stuff on CD when possible. I have almost every MacAddict CD since the first issue, so all I need to do is find the right CD. There MIGHT be something on Aladdin's site. Try digging around in ftp.aladdinsys.com and www.aladdinsys.com. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Mar 18 15:02:26 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... Message-ID: <002601c0afee$bc5a84e0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi There is a large flea market about 20 minutes from here every weekend. It fills about 2 to 3 drive-in parking lots during summer and even during the dead of winter in below 0 temperatures, there are about 100 tables and lots to look through... Never know what you are going to find...today I found: Vax Station 5000/200 with 32Megs (?) $5 Amiga 500/mouse/rf mod + Intellivision II (for my game console collector friends) $7 Box full of C64 stuff : 1541, C64, 2 CBM Power Supplies, TI99 Power Supply, 1530 Mouse, RCA cables, 1541 cable, 1 Fast Load $7 Sensory Chess Challenger 9'' inbox/manual (1981...)...my Phd-teacher brother is a chess champ and collects old chess sets...I taught he would get a kick outta this...$4 I passed on a Sharp PC-10 portable computer + printer at $10 as-is...I offered $5...no go... Can someone tell me more about the VAX? I know nothing about these things. Either point me to a good faq or a manual or just tell me how to check this thing out...I searched the net and after 20 minutes found close to nothing about this thing...the compaq site is a maze.... Unit powers on PS fans (3!) spin. Small leds in back (6?) near ports seem to cycle through in a "logical and non erratic way" at start up... There are 4 large memory boards. Counting the chips I suspect these boards hold 8 Megs each...4 boards...32Megs...built in ethernet from what I can see... Slot -0- in back does not have a cover anymore. There is nothing there...I suspect this held a video card (?) can I still hook this up headless to a terminal? I connected my trusty Wyse60 to this and after a short "POST" I get...: ?IO 5/rzl/vmunix (bb rd) >> Returns bring more >> prompts so I am talking to the box...So I guess it works... The thing has no floppy or keyboard connector...Just a SCSI port....how does it boot? -- from scsi cdrom? (linux something to try on this I suspect...?) Sorry about the questions but I know nothing about these VAX boxes... Thanks for the help Claude claudew@videotron.ca From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 17 15:28:54 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, John Rollins wrote: > >I am trying to un-stuff a driver for the Stylewriter 1200 (the driver > >itself is actually for the 1500 color unit) but Stuffit 1.5.1 cannot > >handle the driver's .sit archive. > Try a newer version... The current version is 6.0. Stuffit Expander > is free, but it's starting to become a rather large download. The > application itself is nearly 4MB. But of course you don't really NEED > the absolute latest version, so I would try to find a copy of 4.0 or > something close. It's a bit smaller IIRC, and it works with newer > versions. I remember running into some old 1.5 stuff a while back on > an older machine and for whatever reason they don't open newer stuff. > I don't keep track, so I'm not sure which version made the change. > Don't ask me where to find 4.0... I keep all my stuff on CD when > possible. I have almost every MacAddict CD since the first issue, so > all I need to do is find the right CD. There MIGHT be something on > Aladdin's site. Try digging around in ftp.aladdinsys.com and > www.aladdinsys.com. > -- The problem is that none of those available and more advanced versions will run on 7.0.1 which is on the SE30. I harbor a hazy recollection that there are practical limitations on how 'new' a system one can run on that machine. Am I close? - don > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Mar 17 15:59:48 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <002601c0afee$bc5a84e0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: >Vax Station 5000/200 with 32Megs (?) $5 >Can someone tell me more about the VAX? I know nothing about these things. >Either point me to a good faq or a manual or just tell me how to check this >thing out...I searched the net and after 20 minutes found close to nothing >about this thing...the compaq site is a maze.... http://www.netbsd.org It's not a VAX. Unless I'm mistaken it says DECstation 5000/200 on the front badge. It's a MIPS based system that was built to run Ultrix, and at least NetBSD has been ported to it (I think Linux and OpenBSD also). The NetBSD site I referenced above seems to have the most info on these things. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From celt at chisp.net Sat Mar 17 17:45:34 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (/mpm) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Test Message-ID: <3AB3F71E.4060007@chisp.net> Did this get through? I suddenly am not receiving messages any more, though I am subscribed. /mpm From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 17 17:50:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: <200103172059.f2HKxG701275@bg-tc-ppp1403.monmouth.com> References: <200103172059.f2HKxG701275@bg-tc-ppp1403.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >There's always Eudora Light v3.6 in a Win/OS2 session. >I'd love to see Eudora 5.x up on OS/2 but don't even consider asking >for it anymore... I'm tired of being laughed at. Yes, I'd love to have an OS/2-native version of Eudora, but I don't see that happening at all. I used PMMAIL when I ran OS/2 back in the early 90's. I guess I could just use UltiMail, which is installed with the OS/2 Bonus Pack. Isn't Opera working on an OS/2 port? It seems like they're really going all-out to try and support as many platforms as possible. If the Mac beta is any indication, it should be pretty nice. I'd just as soon not have to install Windows and use Win/OS2 sessions to run stuff. The 120meg disk space is disappearing fast enough as it is! I finally got the SCSI and Etherlink card installed in the P70 today, as well as some of the Bonus Pack. The only mouse I had that would work on it was a Logitec Cordless Mouseman Pro. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kd7bcy at teleport.com Sat Mar 17 20:15:41 2001 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The problem is that none of those available and more advanced versions >will run on 7.0.1 which is on the SE30. I harbor a hazy recollection >that there are practical limitations on how 'new' a system one can run >on that machine. Am I close? An SE30? Those are nice machines. IIRC, you should be able to run up to 7.5.5 on them, and most other older machines. How much RAM do you have? That's the major factor here. If you have enough RAM and hard disk space, you can run 7.5. Just a little on the slow side :-) But you should at least go for 7.1. That's the minimum I would run on anything unless it needs 6.x or something else for some reason. Save 7.5.5 for faster 030's and 040's and old PPC's. I'm spoiled, I'm running a 600MHz iMac with MacOS 9.1... Of course now I have to buy USB adaptors for all my old serial port stuff... OK, upgrade to 7.1 or 7.5 and get a newer version of Stuffit Expander! -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sat Mar 17 21:14:21 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks In-Reply-To: <20010317171436.26612@mail.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Mar 17, 2001 12:14:36 PM Message-ID: <200103180314.TAA06530@eskimo.com> > >Why were you wasting your time with the Commodore version when you could > >have the Atari version? :) Sorry, Cameron... yes, the C64 version is more > >flexible, but the ST version does look nicer. > > I didn't even realize that flashing advertisement-sized banner was a > download link. I thought the page just listed compatabilities. It's > downloading now, though; thanks. I assumed you could download but I didn't actually try. What I was really getting at is that once you know the disk you want (which organization did the collection, which number) you can find it on other game sites too. The Little Green Desktop is very good. http://lgd.fatal-design.com -- Derek From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 00:34:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: DRAMs needed In-Reply-To: <200103180314.TAA06530@eskimo.com> References: <200103180314.TAA06530@eskimo.com> Message-ID: Does anyone have 8 - 256 x 1 DRAM chips, at least 150ns, they could spare? I want to finish populating a memory board but don't have any DRAMs that large. I only have a handful of 4116's. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Mar 18 07:14:45 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: DRAMs needed References: <200103180314.TAA06530@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3AB4B4C5.17F647EB@idirect.com> >Jeff Hellige wrote: > Does anyone have 8 - 256 x 1 DRAM chips, at least 150ns, they > could spare? I want to finish populating a memory board but don't > have any DRAMs that large. I only have a handful of 4116's. Jerome Fine replies: I will look in the box. I usually saved them when I tossed a scrap 386 mother board. They were used to populate Chrislen 4 MByte memory boards for the Qbus. Does anyone have any 72 pin SIMMs for a Pentium 166 MMX? I have 96 MBytes right now with 2 * 32 MBytes and 2 * 16 MByte. I also seem to have 2 * 16 MByte in my drawer, but I have not bothered to test them. In any case, the minimum help would be a swap of 4 * 16 MBytes for 2 * 32 MBytes so that I could have 128 MBytes (the mother board has slots for 4 SIMMs. I would be in heaven with 2 * 64 Mbytes since that would increase the total to 192 MBytes. I realize that this seems off topic, but I am running some old PDP-11 software and it would be convenient to have a bigger RAM: disk when I use the emulator. That way, I turn off the Sony SMO S501 drives. By the way, I have a few extra magneto optical disks for just the cost I paid for shipping plus sending them on again - probably about $ US 2.00 a cartridge since I am in Toronto. These are the 5 1/4" cartridges at 512 bytes per sector for a total of 295 MBytes per side. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Mar 18 09:05:43 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: COMPUTE! and printing (was: Re: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks) In-Reply-To: References: <001501c0aef9$dd28c420$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> <200103170906.BAA23515@eskimo.com> <001501c0aef9$dd28c420$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010318090417.02260c40@pc> When I was writing and column-ing for Compute in the late 80s, I believe they were using an ATEX system, and there was some minimal mark-up I could introduce to embolden words for example. I don't know how they produced the type-in-the-hex listings, though, from the earlier C-64 era. - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 18 10:47:50 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20010315142658.D22372@alcor.concordia.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010318114750.46ef4ff4@mailhost.intellistar.net> I believe the original PC checked EVERY memory location and the later machines checked every 10th(?) memory location. Joe At 02:26 PM 3/15/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:19:36AM -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) (cisin@xenosoft.com) wrote: >> Sorry, slipped up on my question. should read: >> Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer >> WITH 16K (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? >> >> Why would MORE memory take LESS time? > >More memory at the same speed, or more, faster memory? > > -Rich > >-- >------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 >------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- > From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Mar 18 10:28:12 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: DRAMs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jeff, I might have some... I've got four or five 386 class machines I got at auction, but they are under the monitors that I wanted off the pallet :) Let me look, if you don't hear from me in a week or so, remind me, cuz I'm a terrible procrastinator... (Step #1 - Admit your problem) clint On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Does anyone have 8 - 256 x 1 DRAM chips, at least 150ns, they > could spare? I want to finish populating a memory board but don't > have any DRAMs that large. I only have a handful of 4116's. > > Thanks > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 18 10:51:18 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010318114750.46ef4ff4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: A very reasonable hypothesis. But an unreasonable situation! This was the SAME MACHINE with different amounts of the same memory! (with repeatable results) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > I believe the original PC checked EVERY memory location and the later > machines checked every 10th(?) memory location. > Joe > > > At 02:26 PM 3/15/01 -0500, you wrote: > >On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 11:19:36AM -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > (cisin@xenosoft.com) wrote: > >> Sorry, slipped up on my question. should read: > >> Just one remaining issue: does anyone know why the P.O.S.T. takes longer > >> WITH 16K (14 seconds) than it does with 64K (9 seconds)?? > >> > >> Why would MORE memory take LESS time? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 18 12:03:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> <010101c0adc1$1847b5a0$5a779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010318130319.46ef6c22@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:03 PM 3/15/01 -0500, you wrote: >>Other non -PC hardware such as Rainbow went out to 896k and some of the >>S100 >>based machines did the full meg using shadow rom. > > Two Tandy products that come to mind that could be take up to >768k are the Model 2000 and the 1000HX. The only real benefit for >doing it on either of them was for RAM disks though. Like the PCjr, >the 1000HX used part of it's RAM for the video adapter as well. Both >shipped with thier own specific versions of DOS 2.11. MOST of the non-IBM MS DOS machines could take up to 768k of RAM. The Sanyo 550 and Zenith Z-100s both did. AFIK there's no limitations on using that memory. I used the 768k in my Sanyo as normal RAM with no problems. Both the Z-100 and Sanyo also had vendor specific MS-DOS and went to at least version 2.11. I think they both went to DOS 3.1 or so but I'm not positive about that. The Z-100 had separate video memory but the Sanyo used part of it main RAM for video. That was one of the biggest reasons that it wasn't IBM compatible. However Sanyo later came out with a plug in video card that made the 550 video compatible with the IBM. You had to load a device driver to re-direct the video to the card and you could then get video output from both the standard video port and the port on the vdeo card. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 18 12:23:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010318130319.46ef6c22@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 18, 1 01:03:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1222 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010318/f0a48b38/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 18 12:31:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 18, 1 08:51:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010318/0fbed5a0/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 13:08:49 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The DEC Rainbow could (officially) take 896K of RAM (128K on the >motherboard and a memory expanison card with 3 banks of 256K chips). The >oriiginal Apricot could be pushed to 960K -- actually, there was 1Mbytes >worth of chips on the board but the last 64K was taken up with the >boot/BIOS ROM and the video memory. The TRS-80 Model 2000 could be pushed to 896k but it wasn't an official Tandy upgrade. Someone figured out how to rewire the 256k RAM expansion card to hold a full 640k. I don't believe anyone ever did much with this other than use it as a RAM disk though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 15:11:52 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:16 2005 Subject: Interesting Wall St. Journal article today References: Message-ID: <3AB52498.E7228CA1@internet1.net> Whats MPE? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Paul Thompson wrote: > > On the front page was an article about how ignoring the current web > trendiness and sticking with a traditional minicomputer and established > sales techniques has worked well for various companies. The article talks > about the AS/400 but the it is true for VMS, MPE or whatever. > > Sorry the details are sketchy but I don't have it in front of me. > > -- From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 18 15:25:13 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: P.O.S.T. issue (was: Looking for Someone with IBM PC (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I've had a quick look at the BIOS source listings in the TechRef, and I > can't see any reason why the POST would be slower with 16K than with 64K. > The memory check tests the RAM in 16K blocks, no matter how the DIP > switches are set. The only difference I can see is that if you have <64K > memory (on the motherboard), it doesn't check the DIP switches to look > for memory in expansion slots. But this would speed up the POST for > smaller amounts of memory, and anyway, even an 8088 doesn't take 5s for a > single conditional test :-) One of the differences between the PC (5150) and the XT is the presence on the PC of a DIP switch for amount of memory (the XT goes by what it finds in POST). Would folk with PC (5150) mind: set the switches for 16K RAM, and time the POST. Then set the switches for 64K RAM and time it again. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 15:25:24 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: <004701c0ad3b$914b97e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3AB527C4.4F5E4B@internet1.net> It was up to slightly over $2 per gallon last summer. > You should come over here. Petrol is currently around 98c a litre, so > it's something over $4AU a US gallon or just over $2US. > And it will get worse now that the AU$ just took a dive below US50c. Be > happy with it at that price. I would be. My truck only gets 12.5 on the highway, @80mph :-) Its a regular cab, long box 4x4, K3500 (1-ton). If I were drive a little slower it would get about 14mpg. I really need to get something cheaper to drive to work. I drive 90 miles per day, round trip! > Boggle! What are you driving? A cement truck? Yeech. I thought the > 79 Volvo 244DL was bad at around 21 mpg around town. > I have an 84 Ford Falcon (XE model, 4.1 litre 6 cyl) sitting idle in the > back yard at the moment, too expensive even to drive to work. Yes, it's > worse than the Volvo, though not an awful lot, around 18 or so to the > Imperial gallon around town. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 15:27:12 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Mailing list problem References: <200103142040.PAA14167@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <3AB52830.C25F3E5B@internet1.net> I am not on the digest. I get the list in "realtime", but didn't get anything for several days, and then all of a sudden I got about 150 messages this morning. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA David Gesswein wrote: > > Anybody else having problems with getting multiple copies of the digest? > I have gotten 20 or so copies of classiccmp-digest V1 #537 and just got > another couple in the last hour. I have gotten 1 of 538 and 540 and didn't > seem to get 539 (or possibly deleted thinking it was an extre 537). From leec at slip.net Sun Mar 18 15:47:57 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Interesting Wall St. Journal article today In-Reply-To: <3AB52498.E7228CA1@internet1.net> Message-ID: > Whats MPE? MultiProgramming Execution - OS for the HP3000 line of business minicomputers. See http://jazz.external.hp.com/ and http://www.docs.hp.com/mpeix/all/ and http://www.mpeixservers.hp.com/. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Old Stuff Discount > Warehouse > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 1:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Interesting Wall St. Journal article today > > > Whats MPE? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Paul Thompson wrote: > > > > On the front page was an article about how ignoring the current web > > trendiness and sticking with a traditional minicomputer and established > > sales techniques has worked well for various companies. The > article talks > > about the AS/400 but the it is true for VMS, MPE or whatever. > > > > Sorry the details are sketchy but I don't have it in front of me. > > > > -- > From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 16:00:13 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 References: <3.0.5.32.20010315081018.0087a600@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3AB52FED.F5C32D3F@internet1.net> I have a VT320, but I didn't attempt to use it. It only has a RJ connector on the back, an I don't have anything to plug into it. I was using a terminal program on a PS/2 while trying to connect to the PDP11/53. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tom Uban wrote: > > Another thing to try is to be sure that your terminal is working properly. > Be sure that with the cable attached to the terminal and disconnected from > the 11/53 there is no echo of characters typed at the terminal and when pins > 2 and 3 are shorted together on the cable end that would attach to the 11/53 > the terminal does echo back to itself. If this does not work, then you have > not properly faked out the modem control signals that the terminal requires > to work. > > --tom From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 16:04:24 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 References: Message-ID: <3AB530E8.5D43B8F@internet1.net> > Where did you get this 11/53 ? Bill Bradford od the SunRescue list forwarded and email he got at PDP11.org to the SunRescue list. It wasn't to far a drive from work (about an hour) so I arranged to get it. It had been donated to Goodwill in SouthBend IN. > There are some versions (EPROMs) which are decserver versions. > So you don't get anything on the screen until you go to the debug/configuration mode > (try some of the modi on the bulkhead) I don't know how..... I am new at this :-) > And, another one: try an , or

. > > If you got the "normal" version of the 11/53, it stops looking for the boot device > and is talking to you. > > cheers I'll save this info for future referance. I think I am not using the correct cable set up. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 16:07:58 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 References: <200103150134.f2F1YE705481@bg-tc-ppp1268.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3AB531BE.357738AF@internet1.net> Bill, Your last line speaking of CTS-RTS ,DTR, DSR, and DCD..... is that what the null modem cable does, or is that in addition to the null cable? Chad Fernandez, who is learning he knows quite a bit less about computers than he thought he did :-) Michigan, USA Bill Pechter wrote: > One thing -- I don't know about the 11/53 -- but most DEC DL11-W console > serial ports don't give you the modem control signals you need for > the PC (CTS<->RTS) (DTR->DSR-DCD). > > You probably need a null modem cable or adapter with CTS-RTS jumpered > at the PC and DTR going to DSR and DCD (both ways). > > --Bill From leec at slip.net Sun Mar 18 16:19:07 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Oops! MPE Correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My fat fingers mis-typed: How embarassing, I can;t believe I made THAT mistake ;-)! MPE = MultiProgramming Executive (not Execution) Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lee Courtney > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 1:48 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Interesting Wall St. Journal article today > > > > Whats MPE? > > MultiProgramming Execution - OS for the HP3000 line of business > minicomputers. See http://jazz.external.hp.com/ and > http://www.docs.hp.com/mpeix/all/ and http://www.mpeixservers.hp.com/. > > Lee Courtney > President > > Monterey Software Group Inc. > 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J > Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. > 650-964-7052 voice > 650-964-6735 fax > > Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and > Consulting for > HP3000 Business Servers > http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Old Stuff Discount > > Warehouse > > Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 1:12 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Interesting Wall St. Journal article today > > > > > > Whats MPE? > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > > Paul Thompson wrote: > > > > > > On the front page was an article about how ignoring the current web > > > trendiness and sticking with a traditional minicomputer and > established > > > sales techniques has worked well for various companies. The > > article talks > > > about the AS/400 but the it is true for VMS, MPE or whatever. > > > > > > Sorry the details are sketchy but I don't have it in front of me. > > > > > > -- > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 18 16:21:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 In-Reply-To: <3AB531BE.357738AF@internet1.net> from "Old Stuff Discount Warehouse" at Mar 18, 1 05:07:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1398 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010318/7fe69150/attachment.ksh From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Mar 18 16:43:18 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: My PDP11/53 In-Reply-To: <3AB531BE.357738AF@internet1.net> from Old Stuff Discount Warehouse at "Mar 18, 2001 05:07:58 pm" Message-ID: <200103182243.f2IMhIV05379@bg-tc-ppp1164.monmouth.com> > Bill, > > Your last line speaking of CTS-RTS ,DTR, DSR, and DCD..... is that what > the null modem cable does, or is that in addition to the null cable? That depends on who made the null modem and what they were trying to hook up. Some computers just use Transmit (tx), Receive (rx), and signal ground (pins 2, 3 and 7 on the RS232 DB25... some use handshaking signals to allow data out the serial port (mainly for modem flow control. > > Chad Fernandez, who is learning he knows quite a bit less about > computers than he thought he did :-) > Michigan, USA > > Bill Pechter wrote: > > One thing -- I don't know about the 11/53 -- but most DEC DL11-W console > > serial ports don't give you the modem control signals you need for > > the PC (CTS<->RTS) (DTR->DSR-DCD). > > > > You probably need a null modem cable or adapter with CTS-RTS jumpered > > at the PC and DTR going to DSR and DCD (both ways). > > > > --Bill > > -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 18 16:52:04 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, John Rollins wrote: > >The problem is that none of those available and more advanced versions > >will run on 7.0.1 which is on the SE30. I harbor a hazy recollection > >that there are practical limitations on how 'new' a system one can run > >on that machine. Am I close? > An SE30? Those are nice machines. IIRC, you should be able to run up > to 7.5.5 on them, and most other older machines. How much RAM do you > have? That's the major factor here. If you have enough RAM and hard It has 5,120k and Ramdoubler for a total memory of 10,240k. I surmise that Ramdoubler is some kind of a disk cache thing. Probably, I should look into putting more memory into it. The HD is small - 30mb - but I already have plans to increase that by x30. > disk space, you can run 7.5. Just a little on the slow side :-) But > you should at least go for 7.1. That's the minimum I would run on > anything unless it needs 6.x or something else for some reason. Save > 7.5.5 for faster 030's and 040's and old PPC's. I'm spoiled, I'm > running a 600MHz iMac with MacOS 9.1... Of course now I have to buy > USB adaptors for all my old serial port stuff... > OK, upgrade to 7.1 or 7.5 and get a newer version of Stuffit Expander! > -- Sounds like the way to go. Thanks! - don > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 18 15:49:56 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... References: <002601c0afee$bc5a84e0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <005401c0aff5$6074f5a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claude.W" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:32 AM Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... > Hi > > There is a large flea market about 20 minutes from here every weekend. It > fills about 2 to 3 drive-in parking lots during summer and even during the > dead of winter in below 0 temperatures, there are about 100 tables and lots > to look through... Never know what you are going to find...today I found: > > Vax Station 5000/200 with 32Megs (?) $5 It's not a Vax. It's Digital, but it's a Decstation. MIPS RISC chip. Will run Ultrix or NetBSD, not VMS. Good catch. Search under Decstation 5000 instead of Vax 5000. (TINVax5000) Lots on the NetBSD site about the port for these. Cheers Geoff From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Mar 18 17:08:54 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: SDI cabling question References: Message-ID: <3AB54006.CF1A99D@arrl.net> "Gregory R. Travis" wrote: > > Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's > what I have: > > RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for Went thru a similar install last year, an RA72 array to a UDA50, and had to use DEC BA26V cables between the boxes. I picked another set of 4 BA26v-12's for my home Qbus system, project I've since abandoned. If you need some or all of these let me know. I can post some pix of the cable if you want to verify the connector type ( i love digital cameras!) nick oliviero From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Mar 18 17:16:12 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: HP-UX media. Message-ID: <3AB541BC.8AD8ABB8@timharrison.com> A while back there was some HP-UX media that someone ran across, and someone was going to sort it out, and distribute. What ever happened with that? I'm still interested. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From ip500 at home.com Sun Mar 18 17:20:40 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 Message-ID: <3AB542C8.C9A05C2B@home.com> I've been following the thread about Chad's VAX and/or DEC machine. Just picked up a pair of these VAX station 3200 and don't find much web based data about them. I assume as they clearly say VAX , that they run VMS. Anything I should know before taking a look inside? I don't want any of that magic smoke to escape because of a stupid error on my part. Thanks, Craig From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 18 17:20:25 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: DRAMs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Does anyone have 8 - 256 x 1 DRAM chips, at least 150ns, they > could spare? I want to finish populating a memory board but don't > have any DRAMs that large. I only have a handful of 4116's. > > Thanks I can easily spare 8-120ns, Jeff. Send me a snail address and I'll put them in the mail to you. - don > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 18 17:31:55 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: <004701c0ad3b$914b97e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3AB527C4.4F5E4B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <005f01c0b003$9ec3dac0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Old Stuff Discount Warehouse" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > My truck only gets 12.5 on the highway, @80mph :-) Its a regular cab, > long box 4x4, K3500 (1-ton). If I were drive a little slower it would > get about 14mpg. I really need to get something cheaper to drive to > work. I drive 90 miles per day, round trip! Is that a Ford of some kind? I don't recognise the model. Probably something we don't have here. News this morning that petrol is now likely to increase by a further 10c a litre due to the $AU and OPEC cutting back production again. Just what I needed to hear... Cheers Geoff From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Mar 18 18:17:41 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 In-Reply-To: <3AB542C8.C9A05C2B@home.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010318161000.031c1ca0@208.226.86.10> The VS3200 was the MicroVAX III with a GPX frame buffer card set. They are either 4 bits or 8 bit planes (1 or 2 bitplane cards) The typical loadout would be : KA650 M7620 (sometimes upgraded to KA655 M7625) MS650 M7622(16M) or M7621(8M) (one or two for 16MB or 32MB) VCB02 M7168 (control) M7169 (4 bitplanes, with two its 8 bitplanes) DELQA M7516 Ethernet M7546/M7559 TQK50/TQK70 tape controller M7555 RQX3 disk controller 1 x RD54 in the "small version" 2 x RD54 in the "large" version A lot of people would replace the disk controller with a third party ESDI or SCSI controller. Connections on the back: AUI ethernet DE9 Console (with panel switches) DB15 monitor/keyboard/mouse cable If you got one or both in the BA123 config (large version) then that's about it, if they are in BA23s (rack mount x 2 or pedestal mount x 1) then you probably have a smaller config. Depending on processor (KA655 or KA650) its 2.8 or 2.4 VUPS) not a bad VMS box and runs NetBSD (although without Framebuffer support yet.) --Chuck At 06:20 PM 3/18/01 -0500, you wrote: > I've been following the thread about Chad's VAX and/or DEC machine. >Just picked up a pair of these VAX station 3200 and don't find much web >based data about them. I assume as they clearly say VAX , that they run >VMS. Anything I should know before taking a look inside? I don't want >any of that magic smoke to escape because of a stupid error on my part. > Thanks, Craig From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 13:16:19 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010319001621.ZCLY24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:52:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Don Maslin > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac SE30 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, John Rollins wrote: > snip > It has 5,120k and Ramdoubler for a total memory of 10,240k. I surmise > that Ramdoubler is some kind of a disk cache thing. Probably, I should > look into putting more memory into it. The HD is small - 30mb - but I > already have plans to increase that by x30. Sounds like you have 4 x 256K and 4 x 1M simms installed for 5MB. Still too small and that ramdoubler is last thing you want on that sleepy 16MHz mac since that program takes some of processing time pie, get it off and swap the 256K for 1M to get 8MB total. Remove the hd doubler driver it if it has one, ram/cpu eater. Any 30 pin simms parity or nonparity and speeds will work since this thing use slow, slow 120ns speed (!!). SE/30 is 32bit dirty, needs a driver to overcome this. Max is 32MB using 16MB sticks. More ram is better on any Macs. This little HD needs to go and put in at least 200MB to 500MB, faster the better to "overwhelm" that sluggard 16 MHz cpu. Fix the HD SC 7.3.5 to let you format any non-apple scsi HDs. So far I have done 2 successfully and plans to do more later on. Apple always skimps on scsi HDs using low end types. Read: Slow. I was lucky to find a 230MB Quantum LPS, it is 4500rpm w/ 256K buffer w/ apple rom on it. I know because I had IDE version of this type, blazing fast. :-) But I need much bigger than this. I have few 2.1GB (two 7,200rpm and one honking big 5.25" FH 5400rpm) and one 3.2 GB to play with. Oh yeah, I recommand getting external HD box to keep your stuff offline for installing stuff or transferring data between two macs. I found this best way without resorting to using drivers especially with removeables. This happens because most used removeable boxens often didn't come with drivers. I'm looking for mac driver for my APS 230MB MO. When bought new they did have own drivers included. Lusers didn't save them to disks! :-P Mine is LC III (68030 25 MHz) and C 610 (68LC040 20 MHz) running 7.5 so I have pretty good idea of what performance is like. Oh yes, friend's LC (dead slow) and LC 630 CD DOS compatiable both running 7.x The fastest mac went to LC 630 due to speedy 540MB IDE (!!) and cpu in it 66 MHz. But 7.5.5 is highly recommanded, when SE/30 came out w/ original OS it had 6.0.3. The best parts about this SE/30, it already has FPU (68882), seperate VRAM for video and superdrive 1.44MB. In all, this gives this compact mac highest performace machine for it's time. Oh, 30MB is not stock size. Should had 40 or 80MB when new. Don't forget to check that 3.6V lithium N size battery behind little door. :-O > Sounds like the way to go. Thanks! > > - don Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 13:29:02 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <005f01c0b003$9ec3dac0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20010319002858.ZFET22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Geoff Roberts" > To: > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:01:55 +1030 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Old Stuff Discount Warehouse" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:55 AM > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Snip > Is that a Ford of some kind? I don't recognise the model. Probably > something we don't have here. > > News this morning that petrol is now likely to increase by a further 10c > a litre due to the $AU and OPEC cutting back production again. > > Just what I needed to hear... Agreed, fuel here in canada is still bit expensive. Time to unearth Sarbaru 360's (sounds like revving snowmobile) or any fuel-sipping vehicles, even a FI bug, 1100cc bug or diesel bunny. :-) Newer vehicles (last few years) had MPG go downhill except for honda, tercel, echo and few others but aren't interested in honda or newer vehicles due to cost. Plus, I'm yet to have one so first used vehicle has to be reliable and cheap, has manual tranny. I'm more concerned about able to obtain inexpensive parts which might be n. american vehicles. If anyone say otherwise, do tell. Cheers, Wizard From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 18 18:59:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: <20010319001621.ZCLY24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 14:52:04 -0800 (PST) > > From: Don Maslin > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Mac SE30 > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, John Rollins wrote: > > > snip > > It has 5,120k and Ramdoubler for a total memory of 10,240k. I surmise > > that Ramdoubler is some kind of a disk cache thing. Probably, I should > > look into putting more memory into it. The HD is small - 30mb - but I > > already have plans to increase that by x30. > > Sounds like you have 4 x 256K and 4 x 1M simms installed for 5MB. > Still too small and that ramdoubler is last thing you want on that > sleepy 16MHz mac since that program takes some of processing time > pie, get it off and swap the 256K for 1M to get 8MB total. > Remove the hd doubler driver it if it has one, ram/cpu eater. Any 30 > pin simms parity or nonparity and speeds will work since this thing > use slow, slow 120ns speed (!!). SE/30 is 32bit dirty, needs a > driver to overcome this. Max is 32MB using 16MB sticks. More ram > is better on any Macs. > > This little HD needs to go and put in at least 200MB to 500MB, > faster the better to "overwhelm" that sluggard 16 MHz cpu. Fix the > HD SC 7.3.5 to let you format any non-apple scsi HDs. So far I have > done 2 successfully and plans to do more later on. Apple always > skimps on scsi HDs using low end types. Read: Slow. I was lucky to > find a 230MB Quantum LPS, it is 4500rpm w/ 256K buffer w/ apple > rom on it. I know because I had IDE version of this type, > blazing fast. :-) But I need much bigger than this. I have few > 2.1GB (two 7,200rpm and one honking big 5.25" FH 5400rpm) and one > 3.2 GB to play with. > > Oh yeah, I recommand getting external HD box to keep your stuff > offline for installing stuff or transferring data between two macs. > I found this best way without resorting to using drivers especially > with removeables. This happens because most used removeable boxens > often didn't come with drivers. I'm looking for mac driver for my > APS 230MB MO. When bought new they did have own drivers included. > Lusers didn't save them to disks! :-P > > Mine is LC III (68030 25 MHz) and C 610 (68LC040 20 MHz) running 7.5 > so I have pretty good idea of what performance is like. Oh yes, > friend's LC (dead slow) and LC 630 CD DOS compatiable both running > 7.x The fastest mac went to LC 630 due to speedy 540MB IDE (!!) and > cpu in it 66 MHz. > > But 7.5.5 is highly recommanded, when SE/30 came out w/ original OS > it had 6.0.3. > > The best parts about this SE/30, it already has FPU (68882), > seperate VRAM for video and superdrive 1.44MB. In all, this gives > this compact mac highest performace machine for it's time. Oh, 30MB > is not stock size. Should had 40 or 80MB when new. Don't forget to > check that 3.6V lithium N size battery behind little door. :-O > > > Sounds like the way to go. Thanks! > > > > - don > > Cheers, > > Wizard > Thanks, I'll see what I can get together. - don From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 18:59:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: <20010319001621.ZCLY24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20010319001621.ZCLY24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >often didn't come with drivers. I'm looking for mac driver for my >APS 230MB MO. When bought new they did have own drivers included. >Lusers didn't save them to disks! :-P Since you've hacked a version of HD SC 7.3.5 have you tried formatting the MO with it? On the MO I have here I can use FWB HDToolBox to format it vice using the Pinnacle software and it appears to use the standard FWB hard disk driver. The problem I was having with the Pinnacle wasn't software, it was the cable. Swapped it out for a better one and it's working fine. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 18 19:05:09 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 Message-ID: From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 16 21:42:52 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 Message-ID: [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] You know the P70 hardware manual is online at IBM at http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html and the book is in HTML Bookmanager format or downloadable PDF format as the Portabel Systems HMM Volume I. Very handy and yes the P70 is a neat little unit. My wife starting tinkering on mine and now I can't get it away from her, especially after the 486 upgrade and Win95 OSR2 on a 160mb drive and 16mb ram. I just added an Etherlink MC card and now the same woman that says she doesn't have need for a network is tied to it and wreaking havoc! Russ, have been unable to find a file that meets your description. Is it perhaps that 16mb pdf that is first on that page and is about PC300/PC700? - don From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Mar 19 19:27:31 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs to Commodore 1080 monitor hookup Message-ID: <009d01c0b0dc$ef79bb40$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi I have been trying to get a IIgs working with a Amiga/Commodore 1080. This should be a simple hookup...108x and derivatives support around 15.75khz scan rates and should work in analog RGB mode selection... It's not working. I see the composite sync squashed with a scope when hooked up to the monitor. Also the color signals are hit. Nothing on the screen. I see the video for a split second when switching from digital to rgb on the commdore monitor, its outta sync but you can see for a fraction of a second, so video signals are making it through... I tried also a 1084 and a 1902 with no success...I have checked the pinouts from several sources for both monitor and IIgs and they all match...RGB analog on the 198x series db9 connector...2,3,4...R,G,B and 7 composite sync...1&2 ground...simple enough no? I have tried long/short shielded and unshielded cables with no success. The IIgs RGB output is fine and works perfect with the original IIgs RGB monitor and cable... Anybody ever do this and have these problems...??? Or an idea? Thanks for reading Claude From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 19:29:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Russ, have been unable to find a file that meets your description. Is >it perhaps that 16mb pdf that is first on that page and is about >PC300/PC700? Don, It's a little less than half-way down the page, under the heading: "IBM Mobile Systems HMM - Volume 1 -- 4/3/97 S82G-1501-01" It covers a number of the Thinkpad's as well as the P70 and P75. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 18 19:44:23 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: DRAMs needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Don, Thanks for the offer. After all this time I'm finally going to finish bumping up the RAM on my 1000HX. Every few months it seems I get the urge to fool with it. Anything I can send you in return? Here's the address: Jeff Hellige 8623 Greenbelt Rd #104 Greenbelt MD 20770 Thanks and take care Jeff >On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Does anyone have 8 - 256 x 1 DRAM chips, at least 150ns, they >> could spare? I want to finish populating a memory board but don't >> have any DRAMs that large. I only have a handful of 4116's. >> >> Thanks > >I can easily spare 8-120ns, Jeff. Send me a snail address and I'll put >them in the mail to you. > > - don >> -- >> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: >> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File >> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 >> -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From william.webb at juno.com Sun Mar 18 19:49:08 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W WEBB) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 5000 Message-ID: <20010318.204909.-243159.0.william.webb@juno.com> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:02:26 -0500 From: "Claude.W" Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... Vax Station 5000/200 with 32Megs (?) $5 Can someone tell me more about the VAX? I know nothing about these things. Either point me to a good faq or a manual or just tell me how to check this thing out...I searched the net and after 20 minutes found close to nothing about this thing...the compaq site is a maze.... Unit powers on PS fans (3!) spin. Small leds in back (6?) near ports seem to cycle through in a "logical and non erratic way" at start up... There are 4 large memory boards. Counting the chips I suspect these boards hold 8 Megs each...4 boards...32Megs...built in ethernet from what I can see... Slot -0- in back does not have a cover anymore. There is nothing there...I suspect this held a video card (?) can I still hook this up headless to a terminal? I connected my trusty Wyse60 to this and after a short "POST" I get...: ?IO 5/rzl/vmunix (bb rd) >> Returns bring more >> prompts so I am talking to the box...So I guess it works... The thing has no floppy or keyboard connector...Just a SCSI port....how does it boot? -- from scsi cdrom? (linux something to try on this I suspect...?) Sorry about the questions but I know nothing about these VAX boxes... Thanks for the help Claude claudew@videotron.ca Claude, this is from memory so I'll put percentages of reliability next to each statement- 1- These machines were designed to run Ultrix (A flavor of UNIX sold by DEC) and will not run VMS (100%) 2- I think they're MIPS-based machines (80%) 3- There might be a BSD for them (30%) If you really need come up short I've got Digital Systems & Options catalogs back to 1993 and can get you some information about options but not detailed config/setup stuff. WWWebb ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Mar 18 19:50:09 2001 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Anyone have TU45 docs? Message-ID: <13628100181.20.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I have a TU45 I need to get working again. It doesn't load tapes. It might be roached, or it might just be out of adjustment. I will trade things for it if I happen to have something you want. ------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Mar 18 19:55:32 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs to Commodore 1080 monitor hookup In-Reply-To: <009d01c0b0dc$ef79bb40$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> from "Claude.W" at Mar 19, 2001 08:27:31 PM Message-ID: <200103190155.SAA12621@calico.litterbox.com> Could I interest you in a trade of an applecolor monitor for one of the amiga monitors? I have the opposite problem. > > Hi > > I have been trying to get a IIgs working with a Amiga/Commodore 1080. This > should be a simple hookup...108x and derivatives support around 15.75khz > scan rates and should work in analog RGB mode selection... > > It's not working. I see the composite sync squashed with a scope when > hooked > up to the monitor. Also the color signals are hit. Nothing on the screen. I > see the video for a split second when switching from digital to rgb on the > commdore monitor, its outta sync but you can see for a fraction of a second, > so video signals are making it through... > > I tried also a 1084 and a 1902 with no success...I have checked the pinouts > from several sources for both monitor and IIgs and they all match...RGB > analog on the 198x series db9 connector...2,3,4...R,G,B and 7 composite > sync...1&2 ground...simple enough no? > > I have tried long/short shielded and unshielded cables with no success. The > IIgs RGB output is fine and works perfect with the original IIgs RGB > monitor and cable... > > Anybody ever do this and have these problems...??? Or an idea? > > Thanks for reading > Claude > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ip500 at home.com Sun Mar 18 19:59:23 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? Message-ID: <3AB567FB.FB25784@home.com> Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM 3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with its cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external 1.5 HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, the whole assembly seems about 1/2 the size of a V-6 auto eng! IBM site has several references to them, circa early 80's I gather but they sure look older than that. What I'd like to find is IBM publication #GC26-4491 [IBM 3380 Direct Access Storage Intro] and/or IBM pub #GX26-1678 [Storage Reference Summary]. Neither seems to be in the on-line library from IBM. Any other info or dating is always welcome too. Thanks, Craig From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Mar 18 20:13:13 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: <20010319002858.ZFET22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <012301c0b01a$2856f680$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 5:59 AM Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > Time to unearth Sarbaru 360's (sounds like revving snowmobile) or any > fuel-sipping vehicles, even a FI bug, 1100cc bug or diesel bunny. Or LPG. But that costs a lot to install. I've just ordered the long put off gasket set to revive my Renault 12 Station Wagon. Cost me $300 around 5 years ago and I've probably spent about $500 on it over the years. Took it off the road once because of a head gasket failure, and the last time (over a year now) when the timing chain got a bit slack and jumped a couple of teeth. Replaced that, but never got around to finishing it off and putting it all back together. With petrol predicted to hit AU$1.20 a litre by the end of the year (unless the $ and OPEC do something significant) its ~30mpg will make it worth registering again. > :-) > Newer vehicles (last few years) had MPG go downhill except for > honda, tercel, echo and few others but aren't interested in honda or > newer vehicles due to cost. Ditto. > Plus, I'm yet to have one so first used > vehicle has to be reliable and cheap, has manual tranny. Reasonable approach. > I'm more > concerned about able to obtain inexpensive parts which might be n. > american vehicles. Can't help on that one, we have local manufacturers here (Ford, GM(Holden) and Mitubishi (they bought Chrysler Australia) but parts are not that cheap for any, and they do a lot of rebadging of jap stuff too. A wrecking yard is the best bet, roughly 50% of the new part price, or buy a wreck yourself (much cheaper in the long term - but you need somewhere to put it.) Cheers Geoff From rdd at smart.net Sun Mar 18 20:57:28 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: <3AACF838.BDA2352C@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > IMHO, the best solution is to replace the carb with a 600cfm vacuum > secondary Holley. I've heard that works well with some engines, but for me, it was disastrous. Have others here found that the Holley double-pumpers perform better in their cars? I used to have a 750 double-pumper, then, when it wore out (case wore out, rebuild kits no longer stopped the leaks), I replaced with a 650 (IIRC) CFM vacuum-secondary carb.; that didn't work out well, then, I went back to a 750CFM carb., only with vacuum secondaries. The performance still wasn't as good as it was with the old double-pumper. RDD -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From rdd at smart.net Sun Mar 18 21:11:50 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Joe wrote: > I'm also an ex-motor head. I used to run a Carter AFB on my 340 Plymouth > motor that I stuffed into a '52 MG TD. Wow! What a ride! But NOTHING beat Wow! ...and I thought that someone stuffing a Chevy 350 into a Chevy Vega was an accomplishment! > my 426 Hemi with dual AFBs that I had in my Plymouth Superbird! I've > slowed down a bit but I still have a '70 Dodge Challanger with a 440 > Six-Pak sitting in the side yard. Now I'm beginning to regret having my 351 Cleveland rebuilt instead of sticking a 460 into my '72 Mercury Montego, which I'd like to modify to haul a horse trailer with. The engine and C5 transmission can handle it; I just need the bigger front disc brakes, extra transmission & oil cooling, and suspension improvements. ...of course, this all depends on whether or not the frame's still strong enough, or can be modified to be strong enough; the rear swing-arm suspension may be the weak spot. Anyone here know of any automotive structural engineers for hire? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From rdd at smart.net Sun Mar 18 21:16:42 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: carter afb In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > We have to give him a break though, after all he drives an AMC. > > His ribs or his fingers? Hey, go easy on him; at least he's not driving a Chevy. ;-) (ducking) RDD (who's not really trying to get a Ford vs. Chevy holy war started) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 21:16:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: <004701c0ad3b$914b97e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <3AB527C4.4F5E4B@internet1.net> <005f01c0b003$9ec3dac0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3AB579F6.88F102EE@internet1.net> Geoff Roberts wrote: > Is that a Ford of some kind? I don't recognise the model. Probably > something we don't have here. Its a Chevy, or Chevrolet if you prefer the proper name :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From red at bears.org Sun Mar 18 21:17:08 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: This is CLASSIC COMPUTERS. Message-ID: Would you guys mind it at all if we could please stick to discussions about classic computers? This isn't the Classic Cars list. This isn't the Classic Carbeurators list. This isn't Fuel Efficiency Monthly. This is the CLASSIC COMPUTERS list. Maybe we should become moderated. Furrfu. ok r. From fernande at internet1.net Sun Mar 18 21:18:32 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010318161000.031c1ca0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AB57A88.A4E7A137@internet1.net> I don't want to say that anybody is wrong, especially since my Vax knowledge is very small, but I thought the Vax Stations were the later desktop type machines? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > If you got one or both in the BA123 config (large version) then that's > about it, if they are in BA23s (rack mount x 2 or pedestal mount x 1) then > you probably have a smaller config. Depending on processor (KA655 or KA650) > its 2.8 or 2.4 VUPS) not a bad VMS box and runs NetBSD (although without > Framebuffer support yet.) > > --Chuck From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Mar 18 21:19:29 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? Message-ID: <44.c37540f.27e6d4c1@aol.com> In a message dated 3/18/01 9:07:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, ip500@home.com writes: << Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM 3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with its cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external 1.5 HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, the whole assembly seems about 1/2 the size of a V-6 auto eng! IBM site has several references to them, circa early 80's I gather but they sure look older than that. What I'd like to find is IBM publication #GC26-4491 [IBM 3380 Direct Access Storage Intro] and/or IBM pub #GX26-1678 [Storage Reference Summary]. Neither seems to be in the on-line library from IBM. Any other info or dating is always welcome too. Thanks, Craig >> yup, those things are quite impressive when you open the access doors and quite noisy with multiple units running. Place I worked at back in 1992 had 4 strings of those which were eventually replaced by one hitachi unit. Capacity was up to 4gig IIRC. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 18 16:28:33 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: somewhat OT APS 230 MO driver wanted. In-Reply-To: References: <20010319001621.ZCLY24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010319032830.BJKJ24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:59:40 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: Mac SE30 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Yes, the difference is that yours FWB tools did have driver for MO support and everything else which is why this works for you. I tried my hacked HD SC on it. Nothing caught it's attention when probed, apprently needs driver to use MO or anything else. Needs driver or stuff you have or anybody, send one via email attachment. My account can handle appox 4MB. Since the maker of the APS 230 MO did have driver included when sold new if anyone happen to have a copy of this? Cheers, Wizard From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Mar 18 21:28:24 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Need an IBM 9309-2 Rack Enclosure In-Reply-To: <000301c0ace9$bbd611e0$4702b5d1@curtisauto> Message-ID: <4.1.20010318222646.00b479a0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 05:49 PM 3/14/01 -0700, Curtis Auto said something like: >Are you still looking for this because I have what you need. Jeff Umm, yes, but I ask 'Where are you?' for obvious transportation reasons. -Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From ip500 at home.com Sun Mar 18 22:07:03 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010318161000.031c1ca0@208.226.86.10> <3AB57A88.A4E7A137@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AB585E7.BBCB23D8@home.com> Nope, This one [the 3200] is a honking big floor/pedestal style and it's the small one of the series. Got a VAX station II in my storage unit somewhere that is a Big roll around box. You might be thinking of the VAX station 2000 variety // they're pretty small, almost a big lunchbox size. Craig Old Stuff Discount Warehouse wrote: > > I don't want to say that anybody is wrong, especially since my Vax > knowledge is very small, but I thought the Vax Stations were the later > desktop type machines? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > If you got one or both in the BA123 config (large version) then that's > > about it, if they are in BA23s (rack mount x 2 or pedestal mount x 1) then > > you probably have a smaller config. Depending on processor (KA655 or KA650) > > its 2.8 or 2.4 VUPS) not a bad VMS box and runs NetBSD (although without > > Framebuffer support yet.) > > > > --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Mar 18 22:32:10 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 In-Reply-To: <3AB57A88.A4E7A137@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010318161000.031c1ca0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010318202851.0215e3c0@208.226.86.10> >I don't want to say that anybody is wrong, especially since my Vax >knowledge is very small, but I thought the Vax Stations were the later >desktop type machines? Nope, DEC termed the name 'VAXStation' to indicate a "single user" VAX. Any VAX with a framebuffer, mouse, and keyboard, is considered a VAXStation. One of the more interesting things you can experience is to take the GPX cards *out* of a VAX and suddenly have the license no longer work because its now a server :-) The original VAXStation/GPX was in a BA123 "coffee table" cabinet and uses a KA630 MicroVAX II cpu. The VAXStation 2000 was the first table top one. For the latter, since you cannot remove the frame buffer, moving a jumper does what you need. --Chuck (check out the "House of VAX" at ) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Mar 18 22:31:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 In-Reply-To: <3AB57A88.A4E7A137@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010318161000.031c1ca0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >I don't want to say that anybody is wrong, especially since my Vax >knowledge is very small, but I thought the Vax Stations were the later >desktop type machines? > >Chad Fernandez The first VAXstations were in BA123 or BA23 chassis. I've got a ] VAXstation II/RC and a VAXstation II/GPX both in BA23 chassis. Actually I've seen info on one terminal that would let you argue the original VAXen, such as the VAX-11/780 were the first VAXstations :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rdd at smart.net Sun Mar 18 22:45:19 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: Sun VME bus boards (was: This is CLASSIC COMPUTERS) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > Would you guys mind it at all if we could please stick to discussions > about classic computers? > This isn't the Classic Cars list. This isn't the Classic Carbeurators > list. This isn't Fuel Efficiency Monthly. Sorry... I've been hacking some database stuff and Perl all weekend and I guess it obfuscated my mind a little. Speaking of classic computers, is anyone here interested in purchasing some Sun VME-bus boards? I've got a bunch of them that I'm trying to sell for someone, and I'd like to free up some of the space that they're taking up... lots of CG3 boards, various CPUs, etc. While I'd like to just give these away, I agreed to pay $x dollars apiece for each one sold or transferred to someone else, so I'd like to at least cut my loss (as I'll be taking a loss). The agreement that I made also means that I need to find good homes for them, so I'll only sell them to those who are truly intereted in using them. There are about 100 or so boards in all; no idea what does or doesn't work; I'd like to keep a few of the boards for my own use in one or two 3/150 systems, but I'll gladly consider offers for the rest sometime in the next few months. But wait, that's not all, I'll provide a chance for a FREE *BONUS* to all who purchase these; that's right, I'm giving away something for absolutely nothing! Free arachnids! Disclaimer: Quantity of arachnids per board may vary; some boards may contain no arachnids; purchasers responsible for all consequences. ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 18 23:39:05 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Russ, have been unable to find a file that meets your description. Is > >it perhaps that 16mb pdf that is first on that page and is about > >PC300/PC700? > > It's a little less than half-way down the page, under the heading: > > "IBM Mobile Systems HMM - Volume 1 -- 4/3/97 S82G-1501-01" > > It covers a number of the Thinkpad's as well as the P70 and P75. Thanks, Jeff, it was the Thinkpad that threw me off. - don From donm at cts.com Sun Mar 18 23:44:31 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: DRAMs needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Thanks for the offer. After all this time I'm finally going > to finish bumping up the RAM on my 1000HX. Every few months it seems > I get the urge to fool with it. Anything I can send you in return? No, nothing at the moment, Jeff. I'll throw in a spare. - don > Here's the address: > > Jeff Hellige > 8623 Greenbelt Rd #104 > Greenbelt MD 20770 > > Thanks and take care > Jeff > > >On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have 8 - 256 x 1 DRAM chips, at least 150ns, they > >> could spare? I want to finish populating a memory board but don't > >> have any DRAMs that large. I only have a handful of 4116's. > >> > >> Thanks > > > >I can easily spare 8-120ns, Jeff. Send me a snail address and I'll put > >them in the mail to you. > > > > - don > >> -- > >> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > >> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > >> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > >> > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Mar 19 00:17:38 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: HP-UX media. In-Reply-To: <3AB541BC.8AD8ABB8@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <200103190617.f2J6Hd230227@grover.winsite.com> That was me. The whole lot of 'em are currently on their way to Steve Robertson, who will act as librarian for those of you who need something. I'm sure as soon as Steve gets the box and catalogs what's there, he'll let the list know. > > A while back there was some HP-UX media that someone ran across, and > someone was going to sort it out, and distribute. What ever happened > with that? I'm still interested. > > -- > > > Tim Harrison > Network Engineer > harrison@timharrison.com > http://www.networklevel.com/ > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 19 01:56:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:17 2005 Subject: This is CLASSIC COMPUTERS. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Would you guys mind it at all if we could please stick to discussions >about classic computers? > >This isn't the Classic Cars list. This isn't the Classic Carbeurators >list. This isn't Fuel Efficiency Monthly. > >This is the CLASSIC COMPUTERS list. Maybe we should become moderated. We are moderated, see a post you don't like, hit delete. I don't really care that much about old computers, I just like the people. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 19 01:54:05 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010312095308.47a76c46@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >Now I'm beginning to regret having my 351 Cleveland rebuilt instead of >sticking a 460 into my '72 Mercury Montego, which I'd like to modify >to haul a horse trailer with. The engine and C5 transmission can The 351C is about the last thing I would think of for hauling, its a low torque high HP design. I used to get into trouble with my 73 mustang with a 351C and C6, it was a DOG off the line, but screamed above 30 mph or so. What would happen is that racing someone I would get beaten bad at the start, then just blow past them on the way to 60 mph. People thought I was just messing with them, and expressed frequent displeasure. From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Mon Mar 19 05:12:43 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <002601c0afee$bc5a84e0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> from "Claude.W" at "Mar 18, 2001 04:02:26 pm" Message-ID: <20010319111247Z432946-17404+29@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > Can someone tell me more about the VAX? I know nothing about these things. > Either point me to a good faq or a manual or just tell me how to check this > thing out...I searched the net and after 20 minutes found close to nothing > about this thing...the compaq site is a maze.... As other people on the list have mentioned this really isn't a VAX, even though it is labeled that way. Its a MIPS R3000 based workstation. At the time these workstations came out a number of the Dec naming schemes were a bit confusing, and quite often the same hardware was labeled differently depending upon the software it ran. What you have sounds like a Decstation 5000/200. This is a nice R3000 based workstation, though it sounds like the configuration of your system is somewhat minimal. > > Unit powers on PS fans (3!) spin. Small leds in back (6?) near ports seem to > cycle through in a "logical and non erratic way" at start up... > There are 4 large memory boards. Counting the chips I suspect these boards > hold 8 Megs each...4 boards...32Megs...built in ethernet from what I can > see... > Slot -0- in back does not have a cover anymore. There is nothing there...I > suspect this held a video card (?) can I still hook this up headless to a > terminal? > I connected my trusty Wyse60 to this and after a short "POST" I get...: > > ?IO 5/rzl/vmunix (bb rd) > >> Your system is trying to boot Ultrix (the dec version of Unix) and it can't find the kernel. There are two common reasons for this. First, there isn't a disk on your system, or the disk with Ultrix is missing. It wasn't uncommon for the 5000/200 workstations to not have an internal disk, they quite often had a second chassis with disk and/or TK50 tape. The other possibility is the version of Ultrix on your disk is corrupt. First check to see if there is a disk (open up the box, take a look). Also check what your system thinks is attached to it. There is a command for this that you can enter at the >> prompt. I don't remember the name now, but type help at the >> prompt at it should tell you. This will tell you the devices attached to the SCSI interface so you can determine whether it is looking at the right drive. > > Returns bring more >> prompts so I am talking to the box...So I guess it > works... > The thing has no floppy or keyboard connector...Just a SCSI port....how does > it boot? -- from scsi cdrom? (linux something to try on this I suspect...?) > Sorry about the questions but I know nothing about these VAX boxes... > > It will have a keyboard connector, it will probably look like a RJ11 phone jack if I remember correctly. There should also be a video connector on the back. The video connector has 3 pins, its doesn't look like a VGA connector, or any other standard video connector. The three pins are R,G,B with I believe sync on G. You should be able to connect these to a VGA monitor. You can also interface the SCSI version of the TK50 and the RRD40 CDROM to these boxes. You can occassionally find parts for these workstations on eBay, and there's a surplus place near Montreal that sometimes has parts as well. They make a decent Unix workstation. I used a 5000/20 at work for many years, and I have two 5000/20 and a 5000/200 at home. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Mar 19 06:29:54 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think Jeff has already answered this for you. I've been busy downloading all of the PDF format files and trying to work out a good print-from-browser scheme for the ones that are only in Bookmanager/Bookreader format as one day a genius at IBM is going to pull the plug on openly displaying their older manuals for us to use. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin => Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 7:05 PM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: RE: PS/2 P70 => => => => >From rhblake@bigfoot.com Fri Mar 16 21:23:44 2001 => Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:42:52 -0600 => From: Russ Blakeman => Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: RE: PS/2 P70 => => [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] => [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] => [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] => => You know the P70 hardware manual is online at IBM at => http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/cdt/hmm.html and the book is in HTML Bookmanager => format or downloadable PDF format as the Portabel Systems HMM => Volume I. Very => handy and yes the P70 is a neat little unit. My wife starting => tinkering on => mine and now I can't get it away from her, especially after the => 486 upgrade => and Win95 OSR2 on a 160mb drive and 16mb ram. I just added an => Etherlink MC => card and now the same woman that says she doesn't have need for => a network is => tied to it and wreaking havoc! => => Russ, have been unable to find a file that meets your description. Is => it perhaps that 16mb pdf that is first on that page and is about => PC300/PC700? => - don => => => => From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Mar 19 09:30:31 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a Message-ID: <3AB62617.F9C200A1@kcinter.net> Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. Thanks Bill elecdata1 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 07:40:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 Color graphics adapter Message-ID: <01Mar19.084658est.119079@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> For those such as Claude that have Model 2000's, there's an item that just popped up on eBay that might be of interest. It's the color graphics card for the machine. It's at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1223260404 I thought I'd pass it on since expansion cards for the Model 2000 are getting harder to come by. Jeff From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Mar 19 08:08:07 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a Message-ID: <000801c0b07e$07d7b980$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> THe BASIC info can be found at: http://people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon/index.html under TechInfo section. It's a scan of the BASIC syntax guide from the manual. Francois -----Original Message----- From: bill claussen To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:46 AM Subject: Hp85a >Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition >and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > >Thanks > >Bill >elecdata1 > From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Mar 19 09:11:34 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? In-Reply-To: <3AB567FB.FB25784@home.com> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20010319090831.00c28ee0@vega> 3380's were a product of the 80's. There were several different flavors...the originals came out in the early 80's. They were known as A0's or AA's. or AD's. They were 'single density'...each hda had two addressable actuators (one coming out each side)...each actuator addressed about 600MB of storage. They later came out with AE's which were double density...then J's and K's which were trible density. Did you happen to grab the magnets from the cabinets? VERY powerful permanent magnets indeed! (very heavy too). I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the head that crashed was vaporized! -Bob At 08:59 PM 3/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: > Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM >3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with >its >cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of >the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external >1.5 >HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, >the whole assembly seems about 1/2 the size of a V-6 auto eng! > IBM site has several references to them, circa early 80's I gather >but they sure look older than that. What I'd like to find is IBM >publication #GC26-4491 [IBM 3380 Direct Access Storage Intro] and/or IBM >pub #GX26-1678 [Storage Reference Summary]. Neither seems to be in the >on-line library from IBM. > Any other info or dating is always welcome too. > Thanks, Craig From azog at azog.org Mon Mar 19 09:53:07 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20010319090831.00c28ee0@vega> Message-ID: I worked in a mainframe shop that replaced their removable media with fixed drives. One of the stories was how, one day, after they loaded the removable media, the heads crashed. The guy said it was the neatest thing to actually watch - the covers were smoked plastic, some sort of noise, then the covers were suddenly white. > > I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR > headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the > head that crashed was vaporized! > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Mar 19 10:13:44 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 References: <200103172059.f2HKxG701275@bg-tc-ppp1403.monmouth.com> Message-ID: Anyone know if there is a NFS that runs under OS/2 <=3? I've got a wide variety of boxes running on my network (I'm getting to be an expert at heterogeneous networking :) and my OS/2 box (IBM Server 85) is quickly depleting it's 450MB hard drive. Right now most of my boxes get their post-boot disk space from my linux box which services appletalk, samba, and NFS connections. It would be great to leverage it into my OS/2 box as well.. FYI: My Home Network- IBM PC Server 85 Running OS/2 Warp 3 Intel-brand Pentium 100 Running OS/2 Warp 4 Gateway 486/66 Running MS-DOS 6.22+Windoze 3.11 Self-built dual celeron box running Redhat Linux 6.1 with heavy modifications (acts as netboot/everything server) Sun SPARCStation 10 running Debian Gnu-Linux 2.1 Apple Mac SE/30 Running System 7.1 Apple IIci Running NetBSD Cisco AGS+ Router (Not actually routing anything, but IOS is fun to play with) Coming soon: NeXT Cube running NeXTStep 3.3 DEC 3000/400S running OSF/1 Apple Workgroup Server 95 running A/UX MicroVAX 3100 running something (OpenVMS? NetBSD?) IBM PC Server 95 running something (OS/2 probably) Something running BeOS just for the hell of it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:50 PM Subject: Re: PS/2 P70 > I'd just as soon not have to install Windows > and use Win/OS2 sessions to run stuff. The 120meg disk space is > disappearing fast enough as it is! > > I finally got the SCSI and Etherlink card installed in the > P70 today, as well as some of the Bonus Pack. The only mouse I had > that would work on it was a Logitec Cordless Mouseman Pro. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Mar 19 10:09:49 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: The DOS 10 Commandments (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200103182114.PAA07336@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: (lost attribution: sorry!) >> MOST of the non-IBM MS DOS machines could take up to 768k of RAM. The >> Sanyo 550 and Zenith Z-100s both did. AFIK there's no limitations on using Tony said: >The DEC Rainbow could (officially) take 896K of RAM (128K on the >motherboard and a memory expanison card with 3 banks of 256K chips). The >oriiginal Apricot could be pushed to 960K -- actually, there was 1Mbytes >worth of chips on the board but the last 64K was taken up with the >boot/BIOS ROM and the video memory. A minor nit: my Rainbow 100A model has only 64K motherboard and 768k on the memory card (atop the 8087/8088 daughterboard), for a total of 832K. I think that's maxed out for an A model. What Tony says is correct for B or + Rainbows, AFAIK. Anyway that's yet one more number on the "max. mem" plot for 808(8,6) machines. - Mark From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Mar 19 10:17:25 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Classic source in Kerrville, TX. Message-ID: All, About 2 months ago, I reported that I'd been contacted by an electronics surplus vendor in Kerrville, TX, and would check out the site. After finally making the trip this weekend, I can report; been there, done that, got pictures. That address is sales@elecplus.com, by the way, phone 830-792-3400. I'm still in input overload. The place is simply amazing. Northern Californians will remember what Weird Stuff was like back before it was "cool"; this place is at least its equal, in my opinion. Among the things I saw and photographed that I thought folks on this list might be interested in were: MicroVax 3600 and 2 associated cabinets with RA82 and TU81Plus drives. Sadly, the processor cards were gone *but* were expected back. TRS-80 Color Computer, with external floppy and hard drives. Commodore SX64, complete. Dec DF03 modem (?) and 2 DEC Scholar Modems. A Fluke "interface pod" that looks like an ICE for a 6802 or 6808 2 Gridcase 1537 and 4 battery packs Large IBM terminal-looking thing with 2 8-inch floppies. Wang big iron cabinets, I forget what was in them. Things not photographed included: HP 7935A drives (no packs) a Compaq 386 luggable with a red plasma display and an electronics parts cross-reference program on it (historically interesting software?) There was a *whole lot* more. Workstations and large servers by Sun, Dec, and others. Laptops, CDs, modems, Laserdisk interactive players, printers of every type and size, plotters, scanners, power supplies, disks, etc. The ratio of classic to contemporary stuff looked to be *way* above 1:1. I brought my digital camera, and goggled and fluttered the shutter until an hour past their closing time (2 PM on Saturdays). They didn't say a word about that, by the way, until I said I'd promised my family I'd be back by three at the latest and they shocked me by saying it was 3:15 and would I like to use their phone to call? Which is a pretty good indicator of what kind of folks they are to deal with, and of how much fun I was having. So the bottom line is I have about 89 digital photos of the stuff that looked interesting to me, but no web site or good way to display it to you guys. I can mailbomb anybody that's interested with the whole 31.3 MB of jpegs, or you can tell me what type stuff you are interested in and I can try to pick for you, or I can send you a list of picture titles. If any of you have website space, time, and inclination, a better idea would be for me to send you the pictures, let you put it on your site, and post the url back here, and everyone else can go virtual catalog shopping. Ram, there were big piles of boards. I didn't check for, and forgot even to ask about, Transputers. Next visit I will, or you can email and ask yourself. Fantasy overload warning: Cindy, the owner, pointed out that I didn't even get around to seeing the historically "good stuff". Original-box type things, she says she has in her garage. I can't recall what all she says she has but it's probably worth an email if you have specific "want" items. She listed a lot off the top of her head, and I was too boggled to take notes. Minor caution: Cindy the owner is pretty straight-laced about not allowing any surplus military stuff to get out without being pretty sure it no longer has sensitive info on it. (Yes, DRMO is *supposed* to take care of that.) If you want something that *might* be sensitive, you'll probably have to work out some way to assure her that it's wiped properly before you get it. As before, I can help with transportation if needed. I have a '68 Plymouth Sport Suburban wagon (= Fury III wagon, really. 15.86 mpg on the 120-mi highway round trip to Kerrville, if it's of interest, Geoff), so I can get big boxes to San Antonio International airport, etc. without too much trouble. Disclaimer: Not affiliated, just a well-satisfied customer. Thinking hard about how to increase my alloted classic-computer storage space. Let me know here or at mtapley@swri.edu if you would be willing to web-host jpegs. - Mark From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Mar 19 10:33:58 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Classic source in Kerrville, TX. References: Message-ID: <3AB634F6.5040306@olf.com> Hi Mark, Why not get a NBCI (www.nbci.com) accout for a website, they have free unlimited diskspace and you can upload it there??? Ram PS: Still interested in those transputer stuff. From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Mar 19 10:42:35 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Classic source in Kerrville, TX. also old HP calcs. Message-ID: All, Cindy emailed again this morning to add that she also had some old, original HP calculators. I didn't see those, so don't know what models. - Mark From curt at atari-history.com Mon Mar 19 13:44:09 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? References: Message-ID: <3AB66188.66648AA2@atari-history.com> I've got one better, do you remember the old Bernuolli removable disk drives, the original big beasts in IBM PC/XT cases??? Well, there used to be a serious problem with their power supplies, you would be working in a lab and all of a sudden you'd hear this loud thunderous "thump" type explosion and out from the box would pour out this white nasty ozone'ish smoke. After nervously pulling the plug, you would slide off the cover to find one of the coke-can sized cap's had completely blown off the top and if you looked at the inside of the top cover there would be this spectacular meteor-crater shaped carbon mark where the capacitor had blown upward and scorched the inside of the case. Now thats quality assurance!!! :-) Billy D'Augustine wrote: > I worked in a mainframe shop that replaced their removable media with fixed > drives. One of the stories was how, one day, after they loaded the removable > media, the heads crashed. The guy said it was the neatest thing to actually > watch - the covers were smoked plastic, some sort of noise, then the covers > were suddenly white. > > > > > I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR > > headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the > > head that crashed was vaporized! > > From ip500 at home.com Mon Mar 19 10:51:06 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? References: <4.3.0.20010319090831.00c28ee0@vega> Message-ID: <3AB638FA.961AA893@home.com> Hi Bob, Thanks for the info ... these are 3380 "E" models. Smoked plastic cover over an AL casting. I assume the magnets & actuators must be in the ends of the drive housing. Haven't had a chance to look at them yet. I can imagine a head crash on those would have been something! Still can't get over the size of the drive motor! Craig Bob Brown wrote: > > 3380's were a product of the 80's. There were several different > flavors...the originals came out in the early > 80's. They were known as A0's or AA's. or AD's. They were 'single > density'...each hda had two addressable > actuators (one coming out each side)...each actuator addressed about 600MB > of storage. > > They later came out with AE's which were double density...then J's and K's > which were trible density. > > Did you happen to grab the magnets from the cabinets? VERY powerful > permanent magnets indeed! (very heavy too). > > I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR > headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the > head that crashed was vaporized! > > -Bob > > At 08:59 PM 3/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM > >3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with > >its > >cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of > >the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external > >1.5 > >HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 11:06:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: FWD: CoCo FD-501 floppy needed Message-ID: <01Mar19.121255est.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Here's an email I got from someone this morning that maybe one of you may be able to help out on. Please reply to the original sender. Jeff ------------------- From: Brian Sumpter Organization: Emediadesigns.com Reply-To: bsumpter@emediadesigns.com Date: Mon, Mar 19, 2001, 11:38 AM To: jhellige@earthlink.net Subject: FD 501 Jeff, I was looking over your web site (http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757/index.html), and noticed you have some Tandy CoCo stuff in your collection. I'm trying to obtain a Tandy FD 501 Disk Drive -- the one with the ribbon cable that connects to the cartridge. I'm having quite a bit of trouble tracking one down, and was hoping you might have one or know someone who does that would be interested in selling it to me. Any help you could provide would be very appreciated. Thank you! -- Brian Sumpter bsumpter@emediadesigns.com From red at bears.org Mon Mar 19 11:08:57 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 Color graphics adapter In-Reply-To: <01Mar19.084658est.119079@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > For those such as Claude that have Model 2000's, there's an item that > just popped up on eBay that might be of interest. It's the color graphics > card for the machine. It's at: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1223260404 And I have the colour graphics memory expansion for same, if somebody wants it. ok r. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 11:10:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? Message-ID: <01Mar19.121651est.119079@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Were these the 8" 5 and 10meg units? When they required their own special controller prior to switching to SCSI? Jeff >I've got one better, do you remember the old Bernuolli removable disk drives, >the original big beasts in IBM PC/XT cases??? Well, there used to be a >serious problem with their power supplies, you would be working in a lab and all >of a sudden you'd hear this loud thunderous "thump" type explosion and out from >the box would pour out this white nasty ozone'ish smoke. After nervously >pulling the plug, you would slide off the cover to find one of the coke-can >sized cap's had completely blown off the top and if you looked at the inside of >the top cover there would be this spectacular meteor-crater shaped carbon mark >where the capacitor had blown upward and scorched the inside of the case. >Now thats quality assurance!!! :-) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 19 11:19:29 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? Message-ID: I've two of the 10meg boxes, complete with 100 disks, but no controller card. >From what I understand, it was a proprietary interface. In a message dated 3/19/01 11:16:40 AM Central Standard Time, jhellige@earthlink.net writes: << Were these the 8" 5 and 10meg units? When they required their own special controller prior to switching to SCSI? Jeff >I've got one better, do you remember the old Bernuolli removable disk drives, >the original big beasts in IBM PC/XT cases??? Well, there used to be a >serious problem with their power supplies, you would be working in a lab and all >of a sudden you'd hear this loud thunderous "thump" type explosion and out from >the box would pour out this white nasty ozone'ish smoke. After nervously >pulling the plug, you would slide off the cover to find one of the coke-can >sized cap's had completely blown off the top and if you looked at the inside of >the top cover there would be this spectacular meteor-crater shaped carbon mark >where the capacitor had blown upward and scorched the inside of the case. >Now thats quality assurance!!! :-) >> From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Mar 19 11:48:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? In-Reply-To: <3AB66188.66648AA2@atari-history.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010319094339.034d4670@208.226.86.10> Yup, the 3380 gave for great head crashes. Sitting in the machine room "playing" on the vector graphic console of a IBM 370 when the SP looks over at me and says, "You hear something?" "No," I said, but then I did. Kind of like a mosquito very far away, then as it descended in frequency it got louder and louder. Finally a bansee screech and then dead silence. We both looked to the *wall* of 3380's the were hooked to the system. About midway down the wall, top drive, the fault indicator flickered to life. The drawer (self actuated!) slowly opened, and the top cover popped open. A small could of white smoke came out from the sides and floated lazily to the ceiling, only to be whisked away by the HVAC when it got to the top. "Guess I'll go to lunch now." said the SP. --Chuck From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Mar 19 11:36:42 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a References: <000801c0b07e$07d7b980$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <3AB643A9.67C46094@kcinter.net> Thanks Francois! Bill elecdata1 FBA wrote: > THe BASIC info can be found at: > http://people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon/index.html > under TechInfo section. > It's a scan of the BASIC syntax guide from the manual. > Francois > > -----Original Message----- > From: bill claussen > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:46 AM > Subject: Hp85a > > >Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition > >and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > > > >Thanks > > > >Bill > >elecdata1 > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Mar 19 12:22:28 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: from Jason McBrien at "Mar 19, 2001 11:13:44 am" Message-ID: <200103191822.f2JIMSh07724@bg-tc-ppp505.monmouth.com> > Anyone know if there is a NFS that runs under OS/2 <=3? I've got a wide > variety of boxes running on my network (I'm getting to be an expert at > heterogeneous networking :) and my OS/2 box (IBM Server 85) is quickly > depleting it's 450MB hard drive. Right now most of my boxes get their > post-boot disk space from my linux box which services appletalk, samba, and > NFS connections. It would be great to leverage it into my OS/2 box as well.. I think IBM's OS/2 v2.x supported NFS with their optional TCP/IP package. Pretty costly, though. Bill From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Mar 19 12:24:48 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a In-Reply-To: <3AB62617.F9C200A1@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010319102448.007ed180@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Hi Bill, I have the HP-85 pocket guide. It has some detail on using mass storage, BASIC commands, and error messages. Haven't used it for much yet besides as a glorified calculator. You'll need some thermal paper for your PRINT commands. The DISP command is the same as PRINT, except output goes to the video monitor. Edwin At 07:30 AM 3/19/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition >and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > >Thanks > >Bill >elecdata1 > > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Mar 19 12:25:20 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010319102520.007e4ca0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> So, what's the error message you get when you open this .sit archive in version 1.5? IIRC, the SE/30 can have up to OS 7.5.5. Somewhere.... on Apple's Web site is the Apple Spec Database, which would tell you for sure. The SE/30 will support more than 8 MB RAM if you have MODE32 installed and you have 32-bit addressing enabled. But before updating your OS, check other things, like making sure the old Stuffit Preferences, engines, or Extensions are removed before trying a newer-than-1.5 version of Stuffit. Try unstuffing through the menu commands. Try unstuffing by drag-and-drop. Edwin At 01:28 PM 3/17/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >The problem is that none of those available and more advanced versions >will run on 7.0.1 which is on the SE30. I harbor a hazy recollection >that there are practical limitations on how 'new' a system one can run >on that machine. Am I close? > - don > From whispermulch at hotmail.com Mon Mar 19 12:33:29 2001 From: whispermulch at hotmail.com (whisper mulch) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: FS: Zenith Minisport ZL-2 laptop Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010319/c94c54c2/attachment.html From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Mar 19 12:37:03 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 References: <3.0.5.32.20010319102520.007e4ca0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: You can grab MacOS 7.5.3 for free off of Apple's FTP site. They don't have MacOS 7.5.5 install disks, just the upgrade, as 7.5.5 doesn't like some hardware combinations sold by Apple. The SE/30 should be fine (I used to run 7.5.5 on mine) 7.5 does suck up more RAM then 7.0 or 7.1, but it installs just about everything by default. You can toss a bunch of stuff to free up RAM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin P. Groot" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Mac SE30 > So, what's the error message you get when you open this .sit archive > in version 1.5? > IIRC, the SE/30 can have up to OS 7.5.5. Somewhere.... on Apple's Web > site is the Apple Spec Database, which would tell you for sure. The SE/30 > will support more than 8 MB RAM if you have MODE32 installed and you have > 32-bit addressing enabled. > But before updating your OS, check other things, like making sure the > old Stuffit Preferences, engines, or Extensions are removed before trying a > newer-than-1.5 version of Stuffit. Try unstuffing through the menu > commands. Try unstuffing by drag-and-drop. > > Edwin > > At 01:28 PM 3/17/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > >The problem is that none of those available and more advanced versions > >will run on 7.0.1 which is on the SE30. I harbor a hazy recollection > >that there are practical limitations on how 'new' a system one can run > >on that machine. Am I close? > > - don > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 12:53:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? Message-ID: <01Mar19.140002est.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I've two of the 10meg boxes, complete with 100 disks, but no controller card. >From what I understand, it was a proprietary interface. I believe that the Bernoulli drives used a proprietary interface at least up until the 20meg 5-1/4" drives. They even produced a controller for the TRS-80 Model 2000 but the software didn't allow full use of anything larger than 10meg. Jeff From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 19 12:55:53 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 Message-ID: <4e.12fdcff4.27e7b039@aol.com> In a message dated 3/19/01 12:28:18 PM Central Standard Time, pechter@pechter.dyndns.org writes: << > Anyone know if there is a NFS that runs under OS/2 <=3? I've got a wide > variety of boxes running on my network (I'm getting to be an expert at > heterogeneous networking :) and my OS/2 box (IBM Server 85) is quickly > depleting it's 450MB hard drive. Right now most of my boxes get their > post-boot disk space from my linux box which services appletalk, samba, and > NFS connections. It would be great to leverage it into my OS/2 box as well.. I think IBM's OS/2 v2.x supported NFS with their optional TCP/IP package. Pretty costly, though. >> You might want to search out at HOBBES.NMSU.EDU That's the OS/2 file library. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 13:08:07 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a References: <3AB62617.F9C200A1@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <006101c0b0a7$efa3f2a0$3a15f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition > and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > > Thanks > > Bill > elecdata1 > Bill: Here are a couple of useful links: http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/old/s80_over.html This is Agilent's page giving some history and configurations of the series 80 machines, including the HP 85. http://www.ebbsoft.com/ This is Eric Bal's somewhat incomplete page that includes quite a bit of HP 85 info as well. You can hook up the HP-85a to certain HP floppy disk drives if you have the mass storage rom, the HP-IB interface and I think you need the I/O rom as well. One drive unit that will work, the HP 82901M, is currently up for auction on eBay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item= 1221920807 Current price only $10.49 but will probably end up in the $30-40 range. The tapes you need are DC100A's. HP sold them as either HP 98200's or HP 200 Series 9800. 3M and Scotch were also supliers. I have about 20 of these tapes, which probably date back at least 10-12 years (I don't think they are made any longer) and most have oxide layer loss problems. Therefore, I recommend the disk drive if you want to store programs with the view toward someday retrieving them. -W From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 19 13:02:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a In-Reply-To: <3AB62617.F9C200A1@kcinter.net> from "bill claussen" at Mar 19, 1 07:30:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010319/823da32d/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Mon Mar 19 16:19:00 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? References: <01Mar19.121651est.119079@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3AB685D3.E5B45794@atari-history.com> Jeff, Yup, thems the ones!!! :-) Curt Jeff Hellige wrote: > Were these the 8" 5 and 10meg units? When they required their own > special controller prior to switching to SCSI? > > Jeff > > >I've got one better, do you remember the old Bernuolli removable disk drives, > >the original big beasts in IBM PC/XT cases??? Well, there used to be a > >serious problem with their power supplies, you would be working in a lab and all > >of a sudden you'd hear this loud thunderous "thump" type explosion and out from > >the box would pour out this white nasty ozone'ish smoke. After nervously > >pulling the plug, you would slide off the cover to find one of the coke-can > >sized cap's had completely blown off the top and if you looked at the inside of > >the top cover there would be this spectacular meteor-crater shaped carbon mark > >where the capacitor had blown upward and scorched the inside of the case. > >Now thats quality assurance!!! :-) From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 19 13:44:46 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: plato terminals Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010319134446.008e35d0@ubanproductions.com> Does anyone know where I might still find a Plato terminal of the UIUC 512x512 plasma display variety (not the later CDC implementation)? I know that there were several models, but I don't recall the variations. --tnx --tom From sean at techcare.com Mon Mar 19 14:06:45 2001 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: SDI cabling question References: <3AB54006.CF1A99D@arrl.net> Message-ID: <04bc01c0b0b0$1f8e8360$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "no" To: Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: Re: SDI cabling question > "Gregory R. Travis" wrote: > > > > Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's > > what I have: > > > > RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for > > > Went thru a similar install last year, an RA72 array to a UDA50, and > had to use DEC BA26V cables between the boxes. > > I picked another set of 4 BA26v-12's for my home Qbus system, project > I've since abandoned. If you need some or all of these let me know. > I can post some pix of the cable if you want to verify the connector > type ( i love digital cameras!) > > nick oliviero > While on this thread, just out of curiousity, can anyone enlighten me as to how one is supposed to go about connecting RAxx disks to a KDA50 controller in the same cabinet (internally)? I have no idea how the cabling is supposed to work for SDI drives, as I've never worked with them before. I've got an old MicroVAX III that I stuck four RA72 drives in, but I don't have any SDI cabling, nor any idea on how to go about acquiring or making the requisite cables to hook all the drives up. Help! Thanks, --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 19 15:01:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a In-Reply-To: <3AB62617.F9C200A1@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319160119.0b2f4432@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Bill, The HP 85 was/is very popular. I have about a dozen of them and i'm sure that a LOT of the list members also have them. The 85A has 16k of ram and the B has 32k. There is a 16k ram cartridge that can be plugged into the back of the A to bring it up to 32k. There are four expansion slots in the back of the 85. There are a lot of interfaces, special devices and ROMs that can be plugged into any of the slots. A quick E-bay search should show a good sample of them. The interfaces include HP-IB, HP-IL, seriel (RS-232) and GPIO (16 bit parallel bus). Devices include a CPM module, MODEM and a speech synthesizer. Expansion ROMs are slightly larger than a postage stamp and have to plugged into a "ROM drawer". The drawer can hold up to six ROMs. There is a HP 85 web site at www.ebbsoft.com. Check it for more info or ask here if you have any specific questions. Joe PS check the feed roller in your tape drive and see if it's sticky BEFORE you try to use a tape in it. Virtually all of the rollers get soft and sticky with age. You should find LOTS more about that problem if you search the archives of this list. At 07:30 AM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition >and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > >Thanks > >Bill >elecdata1 > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 19 15:22:22 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a In-Reply-To: <000801c0b07e$07d7b980$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319162222.39ef1e60@mailhost.intellistar.net> Francois, Great! It's about time someone put that thing on-line! Joe At 08:08 AM 3/19/01 -0600, you wrote: >THe BASIC info can be found at: >http://people.mn.mediaone.net/fauradon/index.html >under TechInfo section. >It's a scan of the BASIC syntax guide from the manual. >Francois > >-----Original Message----- >From: bill claussen >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Date: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:46 AM >Subject: Hp85a > > >>Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition >>and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. >> >>Thanks >> >>Bill >>elecdata1 >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 19 15:31:01 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a In-Reply-To: <006101c0b0a7$efa3f2a0$3a15f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <3AB62617.F9C200A1@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319163101.2437a48e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:08 AM 3/19/01 -0800, Wanye wrote: > >The tapes you need are DC100A's. HP sold them as >either HP 98200's or HP 200 Series 9800. 3M and Scotch >were also supliers. I have about 20 of these tapes, >which probably date back at least 10-12 years (I don't >think they are made any longer) and most have oxide >layer loss problems. Therefore, I recommend the disk >drive if you want to store programs with the view >toward someday retrieving them. > >-W Wayne, Do any of those tapes contain original software? If so I'd like to beg/borrow/steal them. I have a couple of 85s with working tape drives and I'm trying to collect and presenrve as much of the original software as possible. As you mentioned, most of the tapes are quickly being rendered useless due to flaking media. You can use old DECtapes or the old 40Mb tapes for PCs in the HP-85. Both are much better quality than the HP tapes. You will have to reformat the other tapes but they work fine. The command to re-format them is INITIALIZE. Joe > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 19 16:04:01 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319170401.0b0fcf26@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:44 AM 3/13/01 -0800, Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote: >> On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> > This is the only computer list I can think of where arguing about a >> > carburator problem posted by a virus is perfectly normal. We are >[insert your opinion here] > > >On Tue, 13 Mar 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: >> computers. Aren't there some engine control computers by now that are >> about 10 years old? > >FSOT: Bosch fuel injection ""computer"" from 1969 VW type III >(squareback). working when removed; with some (not necessarily all) FI >components and sensors > >Over 30 years old, and called a computer. Cool! It IS a computer. The injectors were pulse width modulated. Somewhere I have the manual for that thing. My mother had a '70 VW type III with that system and it ran great. Joe From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Mar 19 15:24:15 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010319170401.0b0fcf26@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Joe wrote: [Bosch FI stuff, deleted] > Cool! It IS a computer. The injectors were pulse width modulated. > Somewhere I have the manual for that thing. My mother had a '70 VW type III > with that system and it ran great. I suppose it is -- although the one being described (L-Jetronic) is an analog one comprised basically of a variable duty cycle oscillator. In many ways it's like an electronic version of K-Jetronic; all the injectors fire at once with no synchronization with the cam and duty cycle controlled by a set of variable resistors (one on the airflow sensor [which was _not_ a MAF]), one for engine temp and (only on some) one for ambient temp) Motronic, which is a programmable digital engine management system, is more than ten years old as well, although it's just now starting to manifest some of the features that were designed into the original architecture back in the '80s... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Mar 19 15:37:58 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? In-Reply-To: <3AB638FA.961AA893@home.com> References: <4.3.0.20010319090831.00c28ee0@vega> Message-ID: <4.3.0.20010319153622.00b3c2d0@vega> If you think they look impressive, you should have watch 'em spin up and down...quite a nice sound! More POWER!! hehehe!! The actuators are in the ends (attached to the voicecoils)..if you want, you can remove the sets of heads (makes a real nice display)...a bunch of things to inscrew, but quite do-able. The magnets are in the cabinet..the voice-coil slides in and out of the magnets. -Bob At 11:51 AM 3/19/2001 -0500, you wrote: > Hi Bob, >Thanks for the info ... these are 3380 "E" models. Smoked plastic cover >over an AL casting. I assume the magnets & actuators must be in the ends >of the drive housing. Haven't had a chance to look at them yet. I can >imagine a head crash on those would have been something! Still can't get >over the size of the drive motor! > Craig > >Bob Brown wrote: > > > > 3380's were a product of the 80's. There were several different > > flavors...the originals came out in the early > > 80's. They were known as A0's or AA's. or AD's. They were 'single > > density'...each hda had two addressable > > actuators (one coming out each side)...each actuator addressed about 600MB > > of storage. > > > > They later came out with AE's which were double density...then J's and K's > > which were trible density. > > > > Did you happen to grab the magnets from the cabinets? VERY powerful > > permanent magnets indeed! (very heavy too). > > > > I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR > > headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the > > head that crashed was vaporized! > > > > -Bob > > > > At 08:59 PM 3/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > > Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM > > >3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with > > >its > > >cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of > > >the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external > > >1.5 > > >HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 19 14:32:39 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard (fwd) Message-ID: Can someone help this guy out? There may be a Tandy 6000 in it down the road. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:20:53 -0500 From: Club 27 Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard Dear Museum founder: Have a Tandy 6000 HD system operating in Xenix. Have all the original 8 1/2" floppies for the OS, and for 'Scripsit' (Word Processing), and for 'Unify' (a RDMS) -- including all the Owners Manuals, and even the Technical Service Manual. However, I really need to keep this old mini-computer working for another 2 years before I pass it along to some collector or museum. I am prepared to make a deal (YOU can set the terms) with the individual who is directly instrumental in providing the assistance I need to keep my keyboard operational or who can assist me to acquire one or preferably two old keyboards for this unit. The problem is that the individual key contacts are failing, one after another. They are easily repaired/replaced -- but I have run out of the ability to switch the sound contact pads from the seldom used redundant keys to those that have failed. I am unable to find a source for these wee electrical contacts, and am looking to - beg, borrow or steal, or buy - a whole keyboard or two from which I can pirate the needed parts. Can you help me, and/or redirect me ? What would be your terms ? Tom - at Club 27 --- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Mar 19 15:47:29 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Hp85a References: <3.0.1.16.20010319160119.0b2f4432@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3AB67E70.AE754DFC@kcinter.net> Thanks Guys, I don't remember if the machine had any carriages installed in it, I'll have to check, the machine was brought home and plugged in, and it appears to be working. I'll take a close look at it later tonight.and let all know what it actually has. I certainly do appreciate the info and help. Thanks Bill elecdata1 Joe wrote: > Hi Bill, > > The HP 85 was/is very popular. I have about a dozen of them and i'm sure > that a LOT of the list members also have them. The 85A has 16k of ram and > the B has 32k. There is a 16k ram cartridge that can be plugged into the > back of the A to bring it up to 32k. There are four expansion slots in the > back of the 85. There are a lot of interfaces, special devices and ROMs > that can be plugged into any of the slots. A quick E-bay search should show > a good sample of them. The interfaces include HP-IB, HP-IL, seriel (RS-232) > and GPIO (16 bit parallel bus). Devices include a CPM module, MODEM and a > speech synthesizer. Expansion ROMs are slightly larger than a postage stamp > and have to plugged into a "ROM drawer". The drawer can hold up to six > ROMs. There is a HP 85 web site at www.ebbsoft.com. Check it for more info > or ask here if you have any specific questions. > > Joe > > PS check the feed roller in your tape drive and see if it's sticky > BEFORE you try to use a tape in it. Virtually all of the rollers get soft > and sticky with age. You should find LOTS more about that problem if you > search the archives of this list. > > At 07:30 AM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition > >and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > > > >Thanks > > > >Bill > >elecdata1 > > > > From foo at siconic.com Mon Mar 19 14:46:58 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: plato terminals In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010319134446.008e35d0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone know where I might still find a Plato terminal of the UIUC > 512x512 plasma display variety (not the later CDC implementation)? I > know that there were several models, but I don't recall the variations. I'd be interested to know if you find any. I wouldn't mind adding one to my archive. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 19 16:02:29 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010319102520.007e4ca0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > So, what's the error message you get when you open this .sit archive > in version 1.5? Words to the effect that it did not understand the compression mode used. The real problem here is that I am a real dolt as regards things Apple, and I am fumbling of course. The project is to install the Stylewriter 1200 on a II/SI that is elsewhere and I am trying to get a driver package set up on the SE30 to make the installation on the II/SI. > IIRC, the SE/30 can have up to OS 7.5.5. Somewhere.... on Apple's Web > site is the Apple Spec Database, which would tell you for sure. The SE/30 > will support more than 8 MB RAM if you have MODE32 installed and you have > 32-bit addressing enabled. I am going to upgrade it. To many difficulties trying to use old stuff on newer stuff :( > But before updating your OS, check other things, like making sure the > old Stuffit Preferences, engines, or Extensions are removed before trying a > newer-than-1.5 version of Stuffit. Try unstuffing through the menu > commands. Try unstuffing by drag-and-drop. Thanks, Edwin, I appreciate the advice. - don > > At 01:28 PM 3/17/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > >The problem is that none of those available and more advanced versions > >will run on 7.0.1 which is on the SE30. I harbor a hazy recollection > >that there are practical limitations on how 'new' a system one can run > >on that machine. Am I close? > > - don > > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Mar 19 16:03:58 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: SDI cabling question In-Reply-To: <04bc01c0b0b0$1f8e8360$0c00000a@techcare.com> References: <3AB54006.CF1A99D@arrl.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010319140103.01982480@208.226.86.10> >While on this thread, just out of curiousity, can anyone enlighten me as to >how one is supposed to go about connecting RAxx disks to a KDA50 >controller in the same cabinet (internally)? I have no idea how the cabling >is supposed to work for SDI drives, as I've never worked with them >before. On the "inside" its pretty straight-forward. There is a harness that connects to the kda50 and has four black cables extending from it that end in 8 pin connectors I believe. (Mine's in storage at the moment) These connect to the matching connector on the RA7x disk unit. --Chuck From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 19 16:08:55 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I've two of the 10meg boxes, complete with 100 disks, but no controller card. > From what I understand, it was a proprietary interface. I have a Bernoulli box interface card, but I think it may be for the 5.25" ones. Label on it says it is a "PC2B50F 03-09-92". - don > In a message dated 3/19/01 11:16:40 AM Central Standard Time, > jhellige@earthlink.net writes: > > << Were these the 8" 5 and 10meg units? When they required their own > special controller prior to switching to SCSI? > > Jeff > > >I've got one better, do you remember the old Bernuolli removable disk > drives, > >the original big beasts in IBM PC/XT cases??? Well, there used to be a > >serious problem with their power supplies, you would be working in a lab > and all > >of a sudden you'd hear this loud thunderous "thump" type explosion and out > from > >the box would pour out this white nasty ozone'ish smoke. After nervously > >pulling the plug, you would slide off the cover to find one of the coke-can > >sized cap's had completely blown off the top and if you looked at the > inside of > >the top cover there would be this spectacular meteor-crater shaped carbon > mark > >where the capacitor had blown upward and scorched the inside of the case. > >Now thats quality assurance!!! :-) > >> > From MTPro at aol.com Mon Mar 19 16:19:29 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes Message-ID: <7f.11ba131b.27e7dff1@aol.com> Hi there, I have two cubes, both original 1988 boxes. One is a 25MHz '040 with a hard drive and an optical drive. The other is a 33MHz '040 (Turbo?) with just a hard drive. Both power on fine, do their system test and then say loading from network. The picture looks like a coaxial "T" connector with a cable that has "data" rolling through it. They will not do anything else. I've been going crazy looking on the internet for days, but have not found a way to bypass this. I know you can "boot" into single user mode and then reset passwords, but how? Anybody lend me some suggestions? Keyboard shortcuts, etc. Also, I have an external 4gb hard drive that I have tried to connect to a working NeXT slab that I have, but it always has a SCSI error - no matter the SCSI ID or with or without terminator. Shouldn't I be able to use this with a NeXT and build a disk? Then couldn't I boot from the external if needed and build the internals? Thanks for any help, they sure are cool systems, x-N! ASA. Best, David From red at bears.org Mon Mar 19 16:44:16 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: <7f.11ba131b.27e7dff1@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 MTPro@aol.com wrote: > Hi there, I have two cubes, both original 1988 boxes. One is a 25MHz > '040 with a hard drive and an optical drive. The other is a 33MHz '040 > (Turbo?) with just a hard drive. Those are not 'original 1988 boxes'. The original 1988 NeXTcomputer had a 25 MHz 68030 board in the backplane. You have the later NeXTcube systems. The 33 MHz system is a Turbo as you have guessed, and does not support the optical drive. > suggestions? Keyboard shortcuts, etc. --'~' will drop you into the ROM monitor from where you may boot the system with other-than-default options. It has some amount of help available online, but I forget how much. > Also, I have an external 4gb hard drive that I have tried to connect > to a working NeXT slab that I have, but it always has a SCSI error - > no matter the SCSI ID or with or without terminator. Shouldn't I be > able to use this with a NeXT and build a disk? Then couldn't I boot > from the external if needed and build the internals? All theoretically possible, but some drives don't play nice. Additional information about the type of drive, its configuration, and your cabling setup will be required to troubleshoot. ok r. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Mar 19 17:20:31 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: <7f.11ba131b.27e7dff1@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010319172031.00903c80@ubanproductions.com> I don't know much about the Next hardware, but the NetBSD information often has some interesting information about each supported platform. You might look at the following location for help with your problems. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/next68k/ --tom At 05:19 PM 3/19/01 EST, you wrote: >Hi there, I have two cubes, both original 1988 boxes. One is a 25MHz '040 with a hard drive and an optical drive. The other is a 33MHz '040 (Turbo?) with just a hard drive. Both power on fine, do their system test and then say loading from network. The picture looks like a coaxial "T" connector with a cable that has "data" rolling through it. They will not do anything else. I've been going crazy looking on the internet for days, but have not found a way to bypass this. I know you can "boot" into single user mode and then reset passwords, but how? Anybody lend me some suggestions? Keyboard shortcuts, etc. Also, I have an external 4gb hard drive that I have tried to connect to a working NeXT slab that I have, but it always has a SCSI error - no matter the SCSI ID or with or without terminator. Shouldn't I be able to use this with a NeXT and build a disk? Then couldn't I boot from the external if needed and build the internals? Thanks for any help, they sure are cool systems, x! > -N! >ASA. Best, David > > From dkuhn at acsworld.net Mon Mar 19 17:31:49 2001 From: dkuhn at acsworld.net (David L Kuhn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:18 2005 Subject: Aardvark Journals Message-ID: <010501c0b0cc$c6066a20$68bc040c@compaq> Hello there, I just joined this list. I don't know how many are subscribing to it. If anyone is interested, I am selling off my original newsletter style Arrdvark Journals on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1223027850 This was a newsletter for owners of Ohio Scientific machines. I am sadly selling off all my old stuff. Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010319/2c2a9068/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 19 17:32:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Hackin' a Solbourne Message-ID: <200103192332.PAA29570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Well, I got my Solbourne (hi Mike!) this weekend. It's a S3000DX with 40MB RAM and runs OS/MP 4.1a. Two drives, nice box, excellent condition. The problem is that this box was production and I have no CDs to boot from, so I can't get into it in service mode so I can wipe it out. For lack of nothing better to do, I was able to "cp sd.si(,,)etc/password bw()" from the boot monitor and get the encrypted root password so that the 4-processor HP PA-RISC 2.0 L-class in the server room can have something to do other than run the school :-), but since there's > 6.6e+15 possibilities in that I was wondering if there's a faster way. It can understand UFS from the boot monitor, which is nice, and it does have a floppy drive, but I don't know what file system it expects to be on it (otherwise I'd copy etc/password off, blast the root crypt, and put a new one on -- or does this not work so good?). Any suggestions? How about hacking a Sun box with no password -- since this is a perverted SunOS machine in concept? :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I couldn't care less about apathy. ----------------------------------------- From go at ao.com Mon Mar 19 17:38:05 2001 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: plato terminals In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010319134446.008e35d0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010319152717.01cb3190@tapestry.ao.com> If anyone needs them, I have most of the documentation for the Digivue displays used in these devices (at least the one partial unit I recovered...) Digivue was an Owens Illinois company. The manuals I have are: USER MANUAL 512-60 UM607 Display D141 MAINTENANCE MANUAL 512-60 MM608 Display D141 USER MANUAL 512-60 UM609 Power Pack MAINTENANCE MANUAL 512-60 MM610 Power Pack They cover just about every detail of the display module operation and its power and interfacing needs. They do not include details about the rest of the Plato terminal (serial interfacing, etc.) Note that I do not know if these are the same modules used in the original UI devices or if they were only used in the CDC "commercial" implementation. I did do some Plato interface hacking back in the 70's when we were thinking of "supporting" the terminals on our local timesharing system - (note "supporting" did not mean running Plato - just accepting the terminals as log-in devices and mating their peculiar interfaces to an ASCII data stream.) Unfortunately, I never removed the cover on the terminals to look at their innards. I was only one of the software weenies on the project. -Gary At 12:46 3/19/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I might still find a Plato terminal of the UIUC > > 512x512 plasma display variety (not the later CDC implementation)? I > > know that there were several models, but I don't recall the variations. > >I'd be interested to know if you find any. I wouldn't mind adding one to >my archive. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 19 17:49:04 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Carter AFB.. he he! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > [Bosch FI stuff, deleted] > Joe wrote: > > Cool! It IS a computer. The injectors were pulse width modulated. > > Somewhere I have the manual for that thing. My mother had a '70 VW type > III > > with that system and it ran great. On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: > I suppose it is -- although the one being described (L-Jetronic) is an > analog > one comprised basically of a variable duty cycle oscillator. In many ways > it's > like an electronic version of K-Jetronic; all the injectors fire at once > with > no synchronization with the cam and duty cycle controlled by a set of > variable > resistors (one on the airflow sensor [which was _not_ a MAF]), one for > engine > temp and (only on some) one for ambient temp) 1) The lack of synchronization made it possible that one time that we needed to move a car (only a few miles), one fellow drove while I sat in the open rear hatch rapidly making and breaking a bare wire contact. 2) The system was configured for 1600cc. One fellow (in La Honda, next door to Jim Warren) was able to get surprisingly acceptable performance with 2180cc (in a '63 VW pickup!!) by connecting a pot to the head temperature sensor. 3) For most mechanics who dealt with it, it was their first experience with electronics more complicated than points and condenser. A friend of mine got a car for a few hundred dollars that the dealer had given up on. Turns out that one bad cell, plus one weak cell, in the battery was sufficient to bring the voltage down too low for the FI, while still cranking well enough that the dealer mechanics could not accept that the weak battery could be the problem. 4) I never saw it, so it qualifies as FOAF: a number of the control units were destroyed by the baking booths in paint shops! And just imagine trying to convince the owner of the paint shop that your engine problems were caused by his paint job! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From shreljac at hi.hinet.hr Mon Mar 19 17:52:26 2001 From: shreljac at hi.hinet.hr (Sinisa Hreljac) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs Message-ID: <000901c0b0cf$a8020f40$09431dc3@hr> Hi! I have just searchinh for Tango Route and I found your post. As I see you have Tango Route which I need. I have Tango PCB and Tango SCH but not Route... If you still want Tango SCH I can send you...and please if you can send me Tango Route Tnx. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010320/048ee5e9/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 19 17:57:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Hackin' a Solbourne In-Reply-To: <200103192332.PAA29570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Mar 19, 1 03:32:48 pm" Message-ID: <200103192357.PAA29450@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Well, I got my Solbourne (hi Mike!) this weekend. It's a S3000DX with 40MB RAM > and runs OS/MP 4.1a. Two drives, nice box, excellent condition. > Any suggestions? How about hacking a Sun box with no password -- since this > is a perverted SunOS machine in concept? :-) Fat fingers. It's a D*4000*DX and hacking a Sun-like box with no *software* or boot disks. By the way, Sols don't do SunOS. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Silly is a state of mind, stupid is a way of life. -- Dave Butler ---------- From mark_k at iname.com Mon Mar 19 18:01:47 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 Russ Blakeman wrote: > I think Jeff has already answered this for you. I've been busy downloading > all of the PDF format files and trying to work out a good print-from-browser > scheme for the ones that are only in Bookmanager/Bookreader format as one > day a genius at IBM is going to pull the plug on openly displaying their > older manuals for us to use. You should be able to find the original bookmanager files for those documents somewhere on an IBM web or FTP site. (ftp.redbooks.ibm.com???) There is bookmanager reader software for at least DOS and OS/2 on one of IBM's FTP sites. Having the bookmanager file is much simpler (only one file to download), and can, I assume, be converted to HTML with the same program IBM uses. -- Mark From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 19 18:08:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs References: <000901c0b0cf$a8020f40$09431dc3@hr> Message-ID: <001101c0b0d1$ec501aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> WHAT??? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sinisa Hreljac To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs Hi! I have just searchinh for Tango Route and I found your post. As I see you have Tango Route which I need. I have Tango PCB and Tango SCH but not Route... If you still want Tango SCH I can send you...and please if you can send me Tango Route Tnx. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010319/d5c47e70/attachment.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 19 13:22:37 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: <200103192357.PAA29450@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200103192332.PAA29570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Mar 19, 1 03:32:48 pm" Message-ID: <20010320002236.CNZF19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> While out there, I stopped by a local (microage) closing up their shop and moving out of town line and setup business strictly for commerical service. Dug up few interesting cables. One of them I'm trading is adapter video cable male 13w3 to male vga 15pin, 6ft, letter code cable is AJ. since I don't have machine for that. Instead, trade that for other items, specifically macintosh parts. Remember, I've to send that cable first so you can test it first and see if this works. Info: IBM P/N 96G2156 for RS/6000, this is how I found this info on 'net. If you need that kind of 13w3 connector, feel free to cut cable in two and graft different connectors to drive monitor end. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 19 18:31:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 SCS problem In-Reply-To: <000901c0b0cf$a8020f40$09431dc3@hr> References: <000901c0b0cf$a8020f40$09431dc3@hr> Message-ID: I have a question concerning the IBM OEM version of the FD MCS-700 SCSI-2 card. As most of you have already heard, I've recently gotten my P70 running again under OS/2 Warp Ver. 3 and regardless of the slot it's placed in or the configuration, the MCS-700 seems to be conflicting with the onboard ESDI controller in protected mode. POST is reporting the following numeric error on bootup: 1047000 221 If the SCSI board is left in, OS/2 will run for a while and then start locking up, which makes sense if the conflict is in Protected mode. DOS will run without errors. The ADF was copied and loaded to the Reference disk without a problem. The Reference diskette diagnostics configuration report shows the wrong configuration with the board install and I've not attempted to go any further with the SCSI board installed. With it removed the diagnostics goes all the way through without errors, showing the correct configuration. The only nonstandard thing in the P70 is the Evergreen 'Rev To 486' upgrade using the 486SXL2 processor. It's benching out at over 12,800 dhrystones. The P70 also has the following installed: - 120meg DBA hard disk - 8meg planar RAM - Etherlink III MCA - 387-20 math coprocessor - floppy disk replaced with that from an 8555 (Mitsubishi drive, p/n 72x6068) - OS/2 Warp Ver. 3 with the Evergreen cache enabling software - MS-DOS 6.22 (in daul boot) - MS Windows 3.1 (in Win-OS/2 mode) - Logitech Cordless Mouseman Pro The ROM version on the MCS-700 is 1.01. I've tried it in both slots as well as tried changing the IRQ and such in the Reference disk setup. All of this had no effect on the error. Any suggestions anyone might be able to make would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and take care. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 19 18:33:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Hackin' a Solbourne In-Reply-To: <200103192357.PAA29450@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200103192332.PAA29570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Mar 19, 1 03:32:48 pm" Message-ID: >> Well, I got my Solbourne (hi Mike!) this weekend. It's a S3000DX with >>40MB RAM >> and runs OS/MP 4.1a. Two drives, nice box, excellent condition. > >> Any suggestions? How about hacking a Sun box with no password -- since this >> is a perverted SunOS machine in concept? :-) > >Fat fingers. It's a D*4000*DX and hacking a Sun-like box with no *software* or >boot disks. By the way, Sols don't do SunOS. At least a Solbourne isn't as bad as a Sun Burn. ..... From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 19 18:53:33 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: <20010320002236.CNZF19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Mar 19, 2001 07:22:37 PM Message-ID: <200103200053.QAA04024@shell1.aracnet.com> > One of them I'm trading is adapter video > cable male 13w3 to male vga 15pin, 6ft, letter code cable is AJ. > since I don't have machine for that. Instead, trade that for other > items, specifically macintosh parts. > > Remember, I've to send that cable first so you can test it first and > see if this works. > > Info: IBM P/N 96G2156 for RS/6000, this is how I found this info on > 'net. If this is the cable I think it is, it lets you hook up something like an older IBM P200 monitor to a PC. Sorry, I just got everything hooked back up, so I don't feel like verifying I'm right :^) Zane From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 19 18:53:45 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Speaking of 3380's Message-ID: Since everyone is talking about them, I'm going to ask that if anyone has manuals for them, or 3880 controllers, or a 4381 model group 21, that I could really really use them... And if anyone finds a 3380, 3880, or 4381 in a scrapyard or something, I need a full set of panels for each machine, i.e. 3 sets of panels total, I cannot run the system without the panels in place. I also need other miscellanous parts, such as hinges, etc. TIA, Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Mar 19 21:04:09 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: <20010320002236.CNZF19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <200103192357.PAA29450@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <200103192332.PAA29570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010319190409.009d1a60@192.168.42.129> At 19:22 19-03-2001 +0000, jpero wrote: >Info: IBM P/N 96G2156 for RS/6000, this is how I found this info on >'net. More specifically, that particular cable is for matching the 15-pin output of the model 43P-140's to the 13W3 input of the IBM P200 series analog color monitor (or any of the other 13W3-equipped workstation monitors they have). Can you tell I support RS/6000's at work? ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From turcotte at rev.net Mon Mar 19 21:03:56 2001 From: turcotte at rev.net (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20010319090831.00c28ee0@vega> Message-ID: <001001c0b0eb$240cddc0$30651a0c@oemcomputer> Thanks. Sounds like 1.2G to 3.6G per drive. Wonder how we can tell which vintage we have? I took one to my office. Getting these babies up the steps was way much, even with help! RT -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Brown Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:12 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? 3380's were a product of the 80's. There were several different flavors...the originals came out in the early 80's. They were known as A0's or AA's. or AD's. They were 'single density'...each hda had two addressable actuators (one coming out each side)...each actuator addressed about 600MB of storage. They later came out with AE's which were double density...then J's and K's which were trible density. Did you happen to grab the magnets from the cabinets? VERY powerful permanent magnets indeed! (very heavy too). I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the head that crashed was vaporized! -Bob At 08:59 PM 3/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: > Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM >3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with >its >cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of >the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external >1.5 >HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, >the whole assembly seems about 1/2 the size of a V-6 auto eng! > IBM site has several references to them, circa early 80's I gather >but they sure look older than that. What I'd like to find is IBM >publication #GC26-4491 [IBM 3380 Direct Access Storage Intro] and/or IBM >pub #GX26-1678 [Storage Reference Summary]. Neither seems to be in the >on-line library from IBM. > Any other info or dating is always welcome too. > Thanks, Craig From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 19 21:18:26 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? Message-ID: <20010320031826.46882.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> I was at the Dayton Computer show last weekend (at the Hara Arena, same place as the Dayton Hamvention) and picked up a handful of, I thought, 8MB parity SIMMs. They are, but they happen to be 80-pin, not 72-pin. So... what strange DEC gear uses them? Old AXP boxes? Old MIPS boxes? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ip500 at home.com Mon Mar 19 21:40:11 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? References: <001001c0b0eb$240cddc0$30651a0c@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3AB6D11B.3A6C0F3F@home.com> I'll bet it was a trip! IBM has some info ..[very little] on their web site. They list an IBM pub # GC26-4491 [IBM 3380 Direct Access Storage Intro], but it's not available in their on-line library // figures! The 1985 date is most likely the mfg date. Hard to believe they were making anything that massive that late. Craig Robert wrote: > > Thanks. > > Sounds like 1.2G to 3.6G per drive. Wonder how we can tell which vintage we > have? I took one to my office. Getting these babies up the steps was way > much, even with help! > > RT > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Brown > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 8:12 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: IBM 3380 disk drives / info? > > 3380's were a product of the 80's. There were several different > flavors...the originals came out in the early > 80's. They were known as A0's or AA's. or AD's. They were 'single > density'...each hda had two addressable > actuators (one coming out each side)...each actuator addressed about 600MB > of storage. > > They later came out with AE's which were double density...then J's and K's > which were trible density. > > Did you happen to grab the magnets from the cabinets? VERY powerful > permanent magnets indeed! (very heavy too). > > I have a 3380 HDA I saved from my mainframe days...had a MAJOR > headcrash....when I opened up the top to look, the > head that crashed was vaporized! > > -Bob > > At 08:59 PM 3/18/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > Among my pickups over the weekend were a pair of these HUGE IBM > >3380 drives. Couldn't even begin to find room for the entire unit with > >its > >cabinet and controllers, but did scavange the drives and motors out of > >the cabinet. Biggest drive I've ever seen. Belt driven! from an external > >1.5 > >HP motor ..these things are Big! Cast alluminium housing w/14" discs, > >the whole assembly seems about 1/2 the size of a V-6 auto eng! > > IBM site has several references to them, circa early 80's I gather > >but they sure look older than that. What I'd like to find is IBM > >publication #GC26-4491 [IBM 3380 Direct Access Storage Intro] and/or IBM > >pub #GX26-1678 [Storage Reference Summary]. Neither seems to be in the > >on-line library from IBM. > > Any other info or dating is always welcome too. > > Thanks, Craig From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Mar 19 23:35:52 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Hp85a References: <3.0.1.16.20010319160119.0b2f4432@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AB67E70.AE754DFC@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3AB6EC38.61587BDF@kcinter.net> Well the system is just a basic system, all the slots are empty, doing a catalogue of the tape doesn't work, but it does recal the tape. give an error. checking the tape drive capstan and the rubber wheel appears to be okay, it may infact be the tape. anyone know how to make it do a retention? Thanks in advance for all your help! Sincerely, Bill elecdata1 bill claussen wrote: > Thanks Guys, > > I don't remember if the machine had any carriages installed in it, I'll have > to check, the machine was brought home and plugged in, and it appears to be > working. I'll take a close look at it later tonight.and let all know what it > actually has. I certainly do appreciate the info and help. > > Thanks > > Bill > elecdata1 > > Joe wrote: > > > Hi Bill, > > > > The HP 85 was/is very popular. I have about a dozen of them and i'm sure > > that a LOT of the list members also have them. The 85A has 16k of ram and > > the B has 32k. There is a 16k ram cartridge that can be plugged into the > > back of the A to bring it up to 32k. There are four expansion slots in the > > back of the 85. There are a lot of interfaces, special devices and ROMs > > that can be plugged into any of the slots. A quick E-bay search should show > > a good sample of them. The interfaces include HP-IB, HP-IL, seriel (RS-232) > > and GPIO (16 bit parallel bus). Devices include a CPM module, MODEM and a > > speech synthesizer. Expansion ROMs are slightly larger than a postage stamp > > and have to plugged into a "ROM drawer". The drawer can hold up to six > > ROMs. There is a HP 85 web site at www.ebbsoft.com. Check it for more info > > or ask here if you have any specific questions. > > > > Joe > > > > PS check the feed roller in your tape drive and see if it's sticky > > BEFORE you try to use a tape in it. Virtually all of the rollers get soft > > and sticky with age. You should find LOTS more about that problem if you > > search the archives of this list. > > > > At 07:30 AM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >Does anyone have info on an hp85a, I found one in excellent condition > > >and works, but I lack paperwork and basic info. > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Bill > > >elecdata1 > > > > > > From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Mar 20 22:07:26 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: plato terminals References: <3.0.5.32.20010319134446.008e35d0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <004701c0b1bc$70b741c0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> The only ones I recall are The large plasma "orange tint" ones...they were big... dont recall if these had a touch screen... The other ones with the black/white screen, these were the ones I used a lot and the were touch screen for sure... I also remember a terminal emulator for Plato for IBM PC... Id love to see some terminals again. These would bring back memories even just staring at a dead one... I actually wrote a bit of stuff and some networked games in the TUTOR language when I was about 17-18 and god knows where that ended up...Never keep this stuff... Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Uban To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: plato terminals > Does anyone know where I might still find a Plato terminal of the UIUC > 512x512 plasma display variety (not the later CDC implementation)? I > know that there were several models, but I don't recall the variations. > > --tnx > --tom > From greg at ciswired.com Mon Mar 19 22:46:27 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: plato terminals In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010319134446.008e35d0@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > Does anyone know where I might still find a Plato terminal of the UIUC > 512x512 plasma display variety (not the later CDC implementation)? I > know that there were several models, but I don't recall the variations. I can't help with the terminals themselves. However, I distinctly remember using the plasma-screen terminals in the 1976 timeframe. These terminals were about 3'x2'x3' in size and sported a pnumatically acutuated microfiche reader. IIRC, the CDC non-microfiche version of the terminal (which included a touch-screen) appeared around 1979. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Mar 20 00:44:58 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? In-Reply-To: <20010320031826.46882.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010319224440.01f8ceb0@208.226.86.10> DECStation 3100 At 07:18 PM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: >So... what strange DEC gear uses them? Old AXP boxes? Old MIPS boxes? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Mar 20 01:10:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: plato terminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010320071024.7231.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Gregory R. Travis" wrote: > On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I might still find a Plato terminal of the UIUC > > 512x512 plasma display variety (not the later CDC implementation)? I think I used one of these briefly on a visit to Purdue around 1978. > IIRC, the CDC non-microfiche version of the terminal (which included > a touch-screen) appeared around 1979. Those are the ones that I remember using at OSU at the same timeframe. My most frustrating memory is trying to explore some kind of dungeon and finding it cleaned out of monsters and treasures. My favorite memory was using the touch screen to "assemble" lab equipment for a virtual experiment distilling water. Sorry I can't help locate any of this hardware. It wasn't as common as other technologies, IIRC. I know I spent more time on a DECwriter II playing games with some remote RSTS system than I ever did on Plato. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 20 02:16:59 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: MTPro@aol.com "NeXT '040 Cubes" (Mar 19, 17:19) References: <7f.11ba131b.27e7dff1@aol.com> Message-ID: <10103200816.ZM29841@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 19, 17:19, MTPro@aol.com wrote: > Hi there, I have two cubes, both original 1988 boxes. One is a 25MHz '040 with a hard drive and an optical drive. The other is a 33MHz '040 (Turbo?) with just a hard drive. Both power on fine, do their system test and then say loading from network. The picture looks like a coaxial "T" connector with a cable that has "data" rolling through it. First, put a 50-ohm terminator on that connector, so the NeXT thinks it is connected to a live (but very small!) network. Then read the NeXT FAQ: http://www.peanuts.org/faq-serve/cache/66.html They will not do anything else. I've been going crazy looking on the internet for days, but have not found a way to bypass this. I know you can "boot" into single user mode and then reset passwords, but how? The FAQ describes how to do it. I recently acquired a slab, and had to do that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 20 03:01:35 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 Front Panel Message-ID: <003501c0b11c$5ddae0c0$0a01a8c0@station1> I will be picking up a PDP-11/70 in a few weeks, but it needs a front panel. If anybody has an extra, please e-mail me. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Mar 20 03:08:27 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1763DF@exch002.softwright.co.uk> > I was at the Dayton Computer show last weekend (at the Hara Arena, same place > as the Dayton Hamvention) and picked up a handful of, I thought, 8MB parity > SIMMs. They are, but they happen to be 80-pin, not 72-pin. I've got a feeling my Tektronix XD88 uses 80-pin stuff (they're bigger than 72-pin anyway). Will check this evening if I get a chance. cheers Jules From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Mar 20 03:18:18 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: <7f.11ba131b.27e7dff1@aol.com> Message-ID: <3AB6DA0A.23729.62D5BE2@localhost> > Hi there, I have two cubes, both original 1988 boxes. One is a 25MHz '040 with a hard > drive and an optical drive. The other is a 33MHz '040 (Turbo?) with just a hard drive. > Both power on fine, do their system test and then say loading from network. The picture > looks like a coaxial "T" connector with a cable that has "data" rolling through it. They > will not do anything else. I've been going crazy looking on the internet for days, but > have not found a way to bypass this. I know you can "boot" into single user mode and then > reset passwords, but how? Anybody lend me some suggestions? Keyboard shortcuts, etc. Also, > I have an external 4gb hard drive that I have tried to connect to a working NeXT slab that > I have, but it always has a SCSI error - no matter the SCSI ID or with or without > terminator. Shouldn't I be able to use this with a NeXT and build a disk? Then couldn't I > boot from the external if needed and build the internals? Thanks for any help, they sure > are cool systems, x! > -N! > ASA. Best, David > Dug this out of an old newsgroup posting : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is the procedure for breaking the password: To assign a new root password when you're unable to log in as root, follow these procedures: 1. Turn the computer off and then on, using the Power key. 2. During the boot process, immediately after the "Testing System" message is replaced by the "Loading from disk" message, hold down the Command bar and press the ~ key (without pressing Shift). On keyboards with two Command keys, hold down the right Command key and press the ~ key. This displays the ROM monitor window. Warning: If a hardware password has been set, you must supply this password before you can boot the computer. If you don't supply the hardware password, you'll be unable to complete the remainder of this procedure. (For more information on the hardware password, see "The ROM Monitor" in Chapter 9.) 3. Start up the machine in single-user mode by entering one of the following commands at the ROM monitor prompt: bsd -s (To boot from the hard disk) bfd -s (To boot from the internal floppy disk) bod -s (To boot from the optical disk) ben -s (To boot from the Ethernet) The system starts up, displaying a series of messages. When startup is complete, you see the single user prompt #. 4. At the single user prompt, start up the system services by entering the following command: sh /etc/rc & You see a series of messages appear on the screen as the rc shell script executes. During this process, NetInfo is started. You won't see a shell prompt after these messages unless you press Return. 5. Set the root password. Enter: passwd root You're prompted twice for the new password. 6. Turn the system off and then on again. After the system boots, you can resume normal operation with the new root password. Warning: Don't try to continue the boot into multiuser mode. If you do, you'll start duplicate system services, which will cause a number of problems. You must halt the system and reboot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As regards the 4gig HD, IIRC You are limited to 2gig or less partitions. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From alex at linuxhacker.org Tue Mar 20 04:07:16 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <3AB527C4.4F5E4B@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Old Stuff Discount Warehouse wrote: > It was up to slightly over $2 per gallon last summer. It's about ?3 (4.28 USD) here in the UK and my Land Rover does about 20MPG... Certainly makes you think twice before going on long journeys. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From halarewich at look.ca Tue Mar 20 04:15:07 2001 From: halarewich at look.ca (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: link to elecplus site Message-ID: <3AB72DAA.CC2F3B38@look.ca> hello here is a line to the electronics plus website inventory page http://www.elecplus.com/inventory.html just thought you would like to know thanx Chris -- # Netscape POP3 State File # This is a generated file! Do not edit. From dancohoe at oxford.net Tue Mar 20 06:53:54 2001 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Speaking of 3380's References: Message-ID: <3AB752E2.77083D71@oxford.net> I'm not sure whether there's any value to you in this or not, but I saw a large set of big blue boxes at a wreckers last week. I didn't make a full inventory, but there were several boxes marked 3390. The whole thing system appeared to be there, in excellent cosmetic shape. Probably 10 or 12 cabinets approximately five feet high and 3' x 3' wide and deep each. I also saw some VAX 6000-650 items, DEC H9644, TU81, a Data General stuff and some other DEC peripherals. These are all in Syracuse NY. regards, Dan C Will Jennings wrote: > Since everyone is talking about them, I'm going to ask that if anyone has > manuals for them, or 3880 controllers, or a 4381 model group 21, that I > could really really use them... And if anyone finds a 3380, 3880, or 4381 in > a scrapyard or something, I need a full set of panels for each machine, i.e. > 3 sets of panels total, I cannot run the system without the panels in place. > I also need other miscellanous parts, such as hinges, etc. > > TIA, > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ip500 at home.com Tue Mar 20 07:21:14 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Speaking of 3380's References: <3AB752E2.77083D71@oxford.net> Message-ID: <3AB7594A.6E35C696@home.com> Just your luck, Will .... Everythings sitting here on the wrong side of the country. Dan Cohoe wrote: > > I'm not sure whether there's any value to you in this or not, but I saw a large > set of big blue boxes at a wreckers last week. I didn't make a full inventory, > but there were several boxes marked 3390. The whole thing system appeared to be > there, in excellent cosmetic shape. Probably 10 or 12 cabinets approximately > five feet high and 3' x 3' wide and deep each. > > I also saw some VAX 6000-650 items, DEC H9644, TU81, a Data General stuff and > some other DEC peripherals. These are all in Syracuse NY. > > regards, Dan C > > Will Jennings wrote: > > > Since everyone is talking about them, I'm going to ask that if anyone has > > manuals for them, or 3880 controllers, or a 4381 model group 21, that I > > could really really use them... And if anyone finds a 3380, 3880, or 4381 in > > a scrapyard or something, I need a full set of panels for each machine, i.e. > > 3 sets of panels total, I cannot run the system without the panels in place. > > I also need other miscellanous parts, such as hinges, etc. > > > > TIA, > > > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 20 08:29:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs In-Reply-To: <001101c0b0d1$ec501aa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <000901c0b0cf$a8020f40$09431dc3@hr> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320092943.3be78698@mailhost.intellistar.net> Richard, FYI. I posted a question about some Tango programs that I found a couple of months ago. I think that's what he's talking about. Joe At 05:08 PM 3/19/01 -0700, you wrote: >WHAT??? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sinisa Hreljac > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs > > > Hi! > > I have just searchinh for Tango Route and I found your post. As I see you have Tango Route which I need. > I have Tango PCB and Tango SCH but not Route... > > If you still want Tango SCH I can send you...and please if you can send me Tango Route > > Tnx. > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\ReTango1.htm" > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Mar 20 08:47:08 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Speaking of 3380's In-Reply-To: <3AB7594A.6E35C696@home.com> References: <3AB752E2.77083D71@oxford.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320094708.3bd71788@mailhost.intellistar.net> Or maybe Will's on the wrong side of the country! At 08:21 AM 3/20/01 -0500, Craig wrote: > Just your luck, Will .... Everythings sitting here on the wrong side of >the country. > >Dan Cohoe wrote: >> >> I'm not sure whether there's any value to you in this or not, but I saw a large >> set of big blue boxes at a wreckers last week. I didn't make a full inventory, >> but there were several boxes marked 3390. The whole thing system appeared to be >> there, in excellent cosmetic shape. Probably 10 or 12 cabinets approximately >> five feet high and 3' x 3' wide and deep each. >> >> I also saw some VAX 6000-650 items, DEC H9644, TU81, a Data General stuff and >> some other DEC peripherals. These are all in Syracuse NY. >> >> regards, Dan C >> >> Will Jennings wrote: >> >> > Since everyone is talking about them, I'm going to ask that if anyone has >> > manuals for them, or 3880 controllers, or a 4381 model group 21, that I >> > could really really use them... And if anyone finds a 3380, 3880, or 4381 in >> > a scrapyard or something, I need a full set of panels for each machine, i.e. >> > 3 sets of panels total, I cannot run the system without the panels in place. >> > I also need other miscellanous parts, such as hinges, etc. >> > >> > TIA, >> > >> > Will J >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Mar 20 08:05:14 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: <20010320002236.CNZF19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Mar 19, 2001 07:22:37 pm" Message-ID: <200103201405.f2KE5ER02374@bg-tc-ppp51.monmouth.com> > While out there, I stopped by a local (microage) closing up > their shop and moving out of town line and setup business strictly > for commerical service. Dug up few interesting cables. > > One of them I'm trading is adapter video > cable male 13w3 to male vga 15pin, 6ft, letter code cable is AJ. > since I don't have machine for that. Instead, trade that for other > items, specifically macintosh parts. > > Remember, I've to send that cable first so you can test it first and > see if this works. > > Info: IBM P/N 96G2156 for RS/6000, this is how I found this info on > 'net. > > If you need that kind of 13w3 connector, feel free to cut cable in > two and graft different connectors to drive monitor end. > > Cheers, > > Wizard How much do you want for the cable. I've got an IBM P70 monitor that should work with it and it probably would let me put that on my Sun Workstation. -Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From emu at ecubics.com Tue Mar 20 09:26:27 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: pdp11/83 References: Message-ID: <3AB776A3.34BA2618@ecubics.com> Hi, anybody out here has a description of the DIL-switches on the 11/83 ? (quad-board) Thanks From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Mar 20 09:54:52 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 disk drives / info Message-ID: one of my friends convinced the movers that he had two washing machines and they moved two 3380 drives from Missouri to Beaverton when he went to work for Tektronix. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Mar 20 10:01:45 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: VT1200 and Vaxstation 4000 VLC Kansas City Message-ID: I just came across two Vaxstation 4000 VLC's and one VT1200. Each of the Vaxstations has 24 MB of memory and a RZ23L drive. I bought one for $10. The Vaxstation uses a 3w3 monitor, is the cable rare? Can I use a VT420 instead? It also has a big scsi connector on the back. I probable need to revisit the VAX/VMS FAQ. Anyone want the other one if I can get it? Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Mar 20 10:24:57 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: VT1200 and Vaxstation 4000 VLC Kansas City Message-ID: <64.c346d88.27e8de59@aol.com> In a message dated 3/20/01 11:04:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, mmcfadden@cmh.edu writes: > > Anyone want the other one if I can get it? > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > YES! -Linc Fessenden. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 20 10:26:09 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs References: <000901c0b0cf$a8020f40$09431dc3@hr> <3.0.1.16.20010320092943.3be78698@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002001c0b15a$78edd780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes ... Now that I see your post, I do remember it. That one really threw me, though! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:29 AM Subject: Re: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs > Richard, > > FYI. I posted a question about some Tango programs that I found a > couple of months ago. I think that's what he's talking about. > > Joe > > At 05:08 PM 3/19/01 -0700, you wrote: > >WHAT??? > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sinisa Hreljac > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 4:52 PM > > Subject: Re: Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs > > > > > > Hi! > > > > I have just searchinh for Tango Route and I found your post. As I see > you have Tango Route which I need. > > I have Tango PCB and Tango SCH but not Route... > > > > If you still want Tango SCH I can send you...and please if you can send > me Tango Route > > > > Tnx. > > > > > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\ReTango1.htm" > > > > From azog at azog.org Tue Mar 20 10:35:58 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: VT1200 and Vaxstation 4000 VLC Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dunno about the 3w3 connector. I have a 4000/60 with a similar connector, but I use a VT420. Just change S3 (down), and the printer port in the back will now be a console port. S3 is in the flip-down lid on the front of the unit, below where the removable media would mount. It may not be obvious that it's there. In here are also diag LEDs. > > I just came across two Vaxstation 4000 VLC's and one VT1200. Each of the > Vaxstations has 24 MB of memory and a RZ23L drive. I bought one for $10. > The Vaxstation uses a 3w3 monitor, is the cable rare? Can I use a VT420 > instead? It also has a big scsi connector on the back. I > probable need to > revisit the VAX/VMS FAQ. > > Anyone want the other one if I can get it? > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 10:54:52 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: VT1200 and Vaxstation 4000 VLC Kansas City Message-ID: FYI, in case someone gets confused, the 4000/60 has a very different case than the 4000/VLC... the 4000/VLC and VT1200 use the same case, and it is only about an inch and a half or so tall, it doesn't have a spot for removable media, only one internal HDD. The removable media bay is present in the 4000/60 case, however. Again, not trying to pick nits, just wanting to provide clarification. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 20 11:21:04 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: <200103201405.f2KE5ER02374@bg-tc-ppp51.monmouth.com> References: <20010320002236.CNZF19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Mar 19, 2001 07:22:37 pm" Message-ID: >How much do you want for the cable. I've got an IBM P70 monitor >that should work with it and it probably would let me put that on my >Sun Workstation. > >-Bill WARNING: The cable's do not seem to allow you to put a Multisync monitor on a Sun Workstation. At least when I tried I couldn't find a combo that would work. IIRC, their pinout is different. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 20 11:35:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: VT1200 and Vaxstation 4000 VLC Kansas City In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I just came across two Vaxstation 4000 VLC's and one VT1200. Each of the >Vaxstations has 24 MB of memory and a RZ23L drive. I bought one for $10. Great price! You'll want to add a larger hard drive. The system most likely was booted off a Cluster drive, and only used the RZ23L for swap space. I've got a 2GB drive in mine. >The Vaxstation uses a 3w3 monitor, is the cable rare? The same cable will for I think all Turbochannel video boards also, so it's only moderatly rare. They turn up on eBay a *lot*. I've used it mine with a 17" multisync monitor. >Can I use a VT420 instead? There is a little switch (I think it's on the side by the power switch), you can flip it, and then plug in a MMJ cable. >It also has a big scsi connector on the back. Which is great for hooking up a CD-ROM. Though I had some problems getting the system to work with my floater CD-ROM drive when I installed the OS. >I probable need to revisit the VAX/VMS FAQ. Probably want to revisit the OpenVMS FAQ, I'm not aware of one that is for VAX/VMS :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Mar 20 11:39:06 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Hp85a In-Reply-To: <3AB6EC38.61587BDF@kcinter.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010319160119.0b2f4432@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AB67E70.AE754DFC@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010320093906.007dae30@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Hi Bill, Try the CTAPE command. This stands for 'condition tape', and will wind the tape one way, then wind it back. If that works, then the ERASETAPE command will initialize your tape for storing data. The REWIND command will take you to the first data block. If you get any STALL errors, the 'rubber wheel' is probably slipping. Edwin At 09:35 PM 3/19/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Well the system is just a basic system, all the slots are empty, doing a >catalogue of the tape doesn't work, but it does recal the tape. give an error. >checking the tape drive capstan and the rubber wheel appears to be okay, it may >infact be the tape. anyone know how to make it do a retention? > >Thanks in advance for all your help! > >Sincerely, > >Bill From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Mar 20 12:02:53 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Hp85a References: <3.0.1.16.20010319160119.0b2f4432@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AB67E70.AE754DFC@kcinter.net> <3.0.5.32.20010320093906.007dae30@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3AB79B4C.7F9CB603@kcinter.net> Hi Edwin! Thanks for the info, I'll give that a try tonight when I get home and report back! Bill "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > Hi Bill, > Try the CTAPE command. This stands for 'condition tape', and will > wind the tape one way, then wind it back. If that works, then the > ERASETAPE command will initialize your tape for storing data. The REWIND > command will take you to the first data block. > If you get any STALL errors, the 'rubber wheel' is probably slipping. > > Edwin > > At 09:35 PM 3/19/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >Well the system is just a basic system, all the slots are empty, doing a > >catalogue of the tape doesn't work, but it does recal the tape. give an > error. > >checking the tape drive capstan and the rubber wheel appears to be okay, > it may > >infact be the tape. anyone know how to make it do a retention? > > > >Thanks in advance for all your help! > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Bill From peter at joules.org Tue Mar 20 12:59:34 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Whitechapel Hitech 20 on offer (fwd) Message-ID: Does anyone in the south east of England want this? -- Regards Pete ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 23:20:10 +0000 From: john_a_s@hotmail.com To: peter@joules.enterprise-plc.com Subject: Whitechapel Hitech 20 on offer Hi Peter, I saw your name on the 'Classic Computer Rescue List' and am e-mailing you as I have a re-built Hitech 20 I no longer need. This is a UK designed and built MIPS R2000 based machine, with 24MB RAM, ethernet, and SCSI. The machine doesn't boot, but can display the boot ROM messages on screen. I don't have the correct display, but have lashed up a lead to my SVGA monitor which allows you to see what is happenning. The unit was rehoused at sometime into a standard AT case, but otherwise seems original. Please let me know if you are interested, I am looking for offers. It is rather heavy, and I would prefer someone to collect it (so at least I can show it partly working). I am in Felixstowe, Suffolk, which is a fair way from Shrewsbury, but I thought you might be interested. Regards, John From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 20 07:46:45 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: References: <200103201405.f2KE5ER02374@bg-tc-ppp51.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010320184642.SFVT19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:21:04 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: "Zane H. Healy" > Subject: Re: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >How much do you want for the cable. I've got an IBM P70 monitor > >that should work with it and it probably would let me put that on my > >Sun Workstation. > > > >-Bill > > WARNING: The cable's do not seem to allow you to put a Multisync monitor on > a Sun Workstation. At least when I tried I couldn't find a combo that > would work. IIRC, their pinout is different. This is why I suggested cutting it in two and rewire. Wizard > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From peter at joules.org Tue Mar 20 13:41:53 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Alex Holden wrote: > On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Old Stuff Discount Warehouse wrote: > > It was up to slightly over $2 per gallon last summer. > > It's about £3 (4.28 USD) here in the UK and my Land Rover does about > 20MPG... Certainly makes you think twice before going on long journeys. > You are a bit out on your maths Alex... 0.78p/litre is 3.56UKP or $5.68 at $1.60/UKP. To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as many engines over the past 10 for 15 years have used computerised engine management systems, why have we not seen much improvement in specific fuel consumption? I would have thought that the systems would be able to run the engine at optimum mixture and thus give a significant improvement in economy. What processors have been used in these systems over the years? -- Regards Pete From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 20 13:53:41 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 Message-ID: OK, one more dumb question about the SE/30. I have just Mac formatted a Toshiba 834mb drive to install in lieu of the puny 31mb unit that came with it. Is it possible to partition this drive into two or more bootable logical drives? Say, one for MacOS 7.n and another for some ?nix derivative? Perhaps another for CP/M-68K? Thanks! - don From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Tue Mar 20 14:43:35 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Offers invited for VT52 Message-ID: <3AB7C0F7.FFCF5416@tinyworld.co.uk> I've received the following email from Joe Hoggood, whose email address is jhoggood (at) hotmail (dot) com. Joe is in SC. Please contact him directly. --- forwarded message --- I saw your VT100.net site and thought I would see if you might know of anyone interested in buying a VT52 that I have. Thanks From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 14:46:46 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:19 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: Message-ID: But of course. When launching Apple HD-SC, choose "2 Partitions" from the drop-down menu, and adjust the sizes accordingly. For *BSD or linux/M68k you need to make one A/UX root slice 0, I think. I didn't know they made CP/M for the Macs.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 2:53 PM Subject: Mac SE/30 > > OK, one more dumb question about the SE/30. > > I have just Mac formatted a Toshiba 834mb drive to install in lieu of > the puny 31mb unit that came with it. Is it possible to partition this > drive into two or more bootable logical drives? Say, one for MacOS 7.n > and another for some ?nix derivative? Perhaps another for CP/M-68K? > > Thanks! > - don > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 20 14:50:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Mar 20, 1 11:53:41 am" Message-ID: <200103202050.MAA04018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have just Mac formatted a Toshiba 834mb drive to install in lieu of > the puny 31mb unit that came with it. Is it possible to partition this > drive into two or more bootable logical drives? Say, one for MacOS 7.n > and another for some ?nix derivative? Perhaps another for CP/M-68K? Yes, definitely. If it's Apple-branded (probably isn't) any copy of HDSC Drive Setup will do that is 68K friendly. They come with most MacOS installs. If it isn't, there's a straight-forward patch you can do with ResEdit, or you can get one of the third-party formatters (try http://www.accesscom.com/~gamba/ -- he should have lots of these). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm rethreading my toothbrush bristles." - From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Mar 20 14:49:03 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Mar 20, 2001 09:21:04 am" Message-ID: <200103202049.f2KKn3j03063@bg-tc-ppp1555.monmouth.com> > >How much do you want for the cable. I've got an IBM P70 monitor > >that should work with it and it probably would let me put that on my > >Sun Workstation. > > > >-Bill > > WARNING: The cable's do not seem to allow you to put a Multisync monitor on > a Sun Workstation. At least when I tried I couldn't find a combo that > would work. IIRC, their pinout is different. Interesting... I'll have to ohm out a couple of 13W3 cables and see what's different. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Mar 20 14:54:53 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010320125453.007bf7c0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Hi Don, Is there REALLY a CP/M-68K for Macs? Cool! Edwin At 11:53 AM 3/20/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >I have just Mac formatted a Toshiba 834mb drive to install in lieu of >the puny 31mb unit that came with it. Is it possible to partition this >drive into two or more bootable logical drives? Say, one for MacOS 7.n >and another for some ?nix derivative? Perhaps another for CP/M-68K? > >Thanks! > - don From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 20 14:55:12 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! References: Message-ID: <3AB7C3B0.427EEF95@internet1.net> Peter, I would argue, that we have seen am inprovement in fuel economy. If I were to drive a little slower, say at 65 or 70 mph, my MPG would be about 14 to 14.5mpg. It seems I am always running late so I drive 80mph :-) 14 to 14.5 is great for a 1 ton 4x4, powered by a 454cid engine. The 14 to 14.5 isn't a guess, either. I was getting that before I started leaving late for work. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Peter Joules wrote: > To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as > many engines over the past 10 for 15 years have used computerised engine > management systems, why have we not seen much improvement in specific fuel > consumption? I would have thought that the systems would be able to run > the engine at optimum mixture and thus give a significant improvement in > economy. > > What processors have been used in these systems over the years? > > -- > Regards > Pete From edick at idcomm.com Tue Mar 20 14:59:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. References: <200103202049.f2KKn3j03063@bg-tc-ppp1555.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000f01c0b180$af59c4c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Its not unusual for SUN to use an odd sync pattern, not compatible with the "standards" that the PC-market has adopted. With a little fiddling, e.g. inversion of one or the other of the two sync signals, it may work fine. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pechter" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. > > >How much do you want for the cable. I've got an IBM P70 monitor > > >that should work with it and it probably would let me put that on my > > >Sun Workstation. > > > > > >-Bill > > > > WARNING: The cable's do not seem to allow you to put a Multisync monitor on > > a Sun Workstation. At least when I tried I couldn't find a combo that > > would work. IIRC, their pinout is different. > > Interesting... > > I'll have to ohm out a couple of 13W3 cables and see what's different. > > > > --Bill > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 > Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 > Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" > > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 15:12:10 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems Message-ID: Hello all, I have a Northstar Advantage 8/16 that I am having some problems with. It is the 2-floppy version, and it does the same thing whether or not the ADV-16 CPU card is installed.... It does not recognize the keyboard. The system turns on, beeps, and displays "Load System" (all normal, according to the docs). However, when I insert a disk, and press enter, no attempt is made to access the disk. Also the "Control-C" combination does not drop you into the monitor, as the docs say it should. One quick diagnostic test said to press the "All CAPS" key repeatedly. The light on the key should go off, then on, then off, etc. It does NOT. It stays lit no matter how many times I press the key. Same for all other lit keys ("Crsr Lock", etc.). I took the case apart, and reseated the cables, made sure all the chips were correctly socketed, looked for burns, hot spots, etc. All seemed fine... Unfortunately, most of the paths in the tech manual end in "replace the main board". I cannot for obvious reasons do this, so my question: Has anyone had an Advantage 8/16 with a seemingly unresponsive keyboard, and how did you fix it? Thanks! Rich B. From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Tue Mar 20 13:54:04 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Amigas Down Under References: <3.0.5.32.20010319102520.007e4ca0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <000101c0b185$0119ab00$0101010a@pentium2> Have any Australian Amiga users on the list ever owned/seen a WB1.3 A500 bundle that included Photon Paint, a Mini Golf game, and a racing game of some description? I'm looking for the bundle name and a box scan if possible. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Tue Mar 20 13:58:53 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: This is CLASSIC COMPUTERS. References: Message-ID: <000201c0b185$02dedaa0$0101010a@pentium2> Mike Ford wrote: > I don't really care that much about old computers, I just like the people. Can you imagine the interesting conversations we would have if this was a Classic People list? "I'll trade my grandmother and several spare components (arms, legs, spare teeth) for a 78 year old nuclear physicist." ;) -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 14:34:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > It does not recognize the keyboard. The system turns on, beeps, and > displays "Load System" (all normal, according to the docs). However, when I > insert a disk, and press enter, no attempt is made to access the disk. Also > the "Control-C" combination does not drop you into the monitor, as the docs > say it should. > > One quick diagnostic test said to press the "All CAPS" key repeatedly. The > light on the key should go off, then on, then off, etc. It does NOT. It > stays lit no matter how many times I press the key. Same for all other lit > keys ("Crsr Lock", etc.). > > I took the case apart, and reseated the cables, made sure all the chips were > correctly socketed, looked for burns, hot spots, etc. All seemed fine... > > Unfortunately, most of the paths in the tech manual end in "replace the main > board". I cannot for obvious reasons do this, so my question: Have you considered that perhaps the keyboard has gone bad? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 20 15:38:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Mar 20, 1 04:12:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010320/cc071cce/attachment.ksh From alex at linuxhacker.org Tue Mar 20 15:52:25 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Peter Joules wrote: > You are a bit out on your maths Alex... 0.78p/litre is 3.56UKP or $5.68 at > $1.60/UKP. Gah, Unix units works in US gallons, I'm pretty sure I paid 79.9p/litre last weekend, and http://www.xe.net/ucc/ gives $1.43/UKP. Sorry. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 15:55:54 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East Message-ID: Oh great and mighty Sellam, have you considered the Worcester Centrum Centre, located in sunny Worcester, MA, about 1 hour from Boston, and 1 hour from Providence, RI (straight shot down Rt. 146)?? http://www.centrumcentre.com/, or Worcester's Centrum Centre 50 Foster Street Worcester, MA 01608 Phone: 508.755.6800 Fax: 508.929.0111 I have NO affiliation with them, but it's about a 1/2 hour drive from my home, so I do have a somewhat vested interest :-) Worcester has all the usual big city amenities, and even it's own airport! Thanks! Rich B. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Mar 20 16:09:47 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. Message-ID: I have many of them in use. They are great for connecting IBM P70 17" monitors to PC type machines. My desktop monitor used to be a 21" RS6000 monitor which required 13w3 to HD15 cable. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Mar 20 16:20:11 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems Message-ID: >Have you considered that perhaps the keyboard has gone bad? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Uhh... Yeah, but it's just a matrix of contacts, and not an "active" keyboard, IIRC. So if there's no parts to fail other than the keys, I find it hard to believe, though not impossible, that EVERY key died at the same time. Perhaps all on a row or all on a column, but not ALL keys. I figured if anyone knows what chips on the mainboard read or handle the keyboard, they could point me in the right direction for replacements, or things to test... Rich B. P.S. -- I get the digest, so I can't reply immediately... From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 20 16:30:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Mar 20, 1 05:20:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1968 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010320/05f2dedf/attachment.ksh From azog at azog.org Tue Mar 20 16:48:20 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East References: Message-ID: <000d01c0b18f$df4ed8a0$0a00a8c0@azog> Well, since we are dropping names :) I would ask for the New Jersey Expo Center in Raritan NJ to be considered. It's right off the NJ Turnpike, the only road outsiders consider to exist in NJ anyways. > Oh great and mighty Sellam, have you considered the Worcester Centrum > Centre, located in sunny Worcester, MA, about 1 hour from Boston, and 1 hour > from Providence, RI (straight shot down Rt. 146)?? > From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Mar 20 17:00:42 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: Re: VCF East (Billy D'Augustine) References: <000d01c0b18f$df4ed8a0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <15031.57626.224557.325416@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 20, Billy D'Augustine wrote: > I would ask for the New Jersey Expo Center in Raritan NJ to be considered. > It's right off the NJ Turnpike, the only road outsiders consider to exist in > NJ anyways. Yeah, isn't that amazing? I grew up in NJ, and I go there from time to time. I rarely see NJ license plates on the Turnpike. Weird. I'd also like to see it happen somewhere toward the "middle" of the coast. While it's true that the southern states (at least NC, SC, and GA) are less densely populated than the Great New England Sprawl, there *is* life outside of Boston. If VCF East is reasonably accessible to the Washington DC area (and I'd say NJ counts) you can count on me and at least a half dozen of my friends to help out with all the setup stuff. And I'd plan to exhibit, as well. -Dave McGuire From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Mar 20 17:02:25 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Apple parts seller Message-ID: <3AB79B31.25521.91FFA9E@localhost> I just purchased some A2 items at extremely good prices and felt I should pass on to the list this info. I am not in any way connected to him other than as a delighted customer. I bought : >> 8 Appletalk connectors at .50 ea $4.00 >> 4 DuoDisk cards at .50 ea $2.00 >> 1 Apple DOS Manual $1.00 >> 1 Apple ProDos manual $1.00 >> 1 Apple DOS System Master disk .50 >> 1 Apple ProDos disk for 64K machines .50 >> 1 Apple ProDos User's Disk .50 >> 1 Apple System Utilities Disk .50 >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Total for goods $10.00 US ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:43:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Craig J. Larson" To: Lawrence Walker Subject: Re: DUO Disk Controller Larry, I always ship the same day payment is received. I don't mind if you give out my email address. I've been liquidating the assets from a former Apple II user group for about 3 years now and after 400+ packages shipped, I'm not aware of anyone who was not satisfied. I'm not a dealer and am not replenishing anything that is sold. Over 2/3rds of the material is gone. Most of what is left are just common cards like disk controllers, Super Serial cards, parallel printer cards, AIIe extended 80 column cards, power supplies, programming books etc. I have a few Platinum Apple IIe machines, and a few Apple IIgs machines left. I also have a few color and green screen monitors left, but these are generally too expensive to ship. Since I used to service these machines for the general public, I have a lot of IC chips left for replacement on boards, and replacement key switches for repairing keyboards. Also component parts for repairing power supplies. I do not have a complete list of these items and haven't had time to take inventory. I work over 70 hours per week at my job. I also deal with antique radio parts, vacuum tubes, and 16mm films and supplies. Those are just a few of my hobbies. Craig in USA ------- End of forwarded message ------- Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 20 12:10:08 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010320231000.XYKW19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "McFadden, Mike" > To: "'classiccmp@classiccmp.org'" > Subject: re:Found one oddball 13w3 cable and it's for trade. > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:09:47 -0600 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I have many of them in use. They are great for connecting IBM P70 17" > monitors to PC type machines. My desktop monitor used to be a 21" RS6000 > monitor which required 13w3 to HD15 cable. Good!! Now any taker for this cable I have in trade for your Mac parts? Cheers, Wizard > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Mar 20 17:23:45 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <000d01c0b18f$df4ed8a0$0a00a8c0@azog> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010320182256.0303ea68@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 05:48 PM 3/20/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Well, since we are dropping names :) > >I would ask for the New Jersey Expo Center in Raritan NJ to be considered. >It's right off the NJ Turnpike, the only road outsiders consider to exist in >NJ anyways. > > > Oh great and mighty Sellam, have you considered the Worcester Centrum > > Centre, located in sunny Worcester, MA, about 1 hour from Boston, and 1 >hour > > from Providence, RI (straight shot down Rt. 146)?? > > I'll second the NJ location since it's nice and close to me -- unless we could have it in my back yard... :-) -- Tony From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Mar 20 18:15:10 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East Message-ID: <10.a5e6056.27e94c8e@aol.com> In a message dated Tue, 20 Mar 2001 6:29:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tony Eros writes: <> I'll third it.. NJ would be great! -Linc Fessenden From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Mar 20 18:18:35 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010320182256.0303ea68@mail.njd.concentric.com> from Tony Eros at "Mar 20, 2001 06:23:45 pm" Message-ID: <200103210018.f2L0IZ303960@bg-tc-ppp1143.monmouth.com> > At 05:48 PM 3/20/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Well, since we are dropping names :) > > > >I would ask for the New Jersey Expo Center in Raritan NJ to be considered. > >It's right off the NJ Turnpike, the only road outsiders consider to exist in > >NJ anyways. > > > > > Oh great and mighty Sellam, have you considered the Worcester Centrum > > > Centre, located in sunny Worcester, MA, about 1 hour from Boston, and 1 > >hour > > > from Providence, RI (straight shot down Rt. 146)?? > > > > > I'll second the NJ location since it's nice and close to me -- unless we > could have it in my back yard... :-) > > -- Tony And the NJ location, I believe, was an E.R. Squibb 11/70 running data site at one time. --Bill who used to service them before the merger -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 20 17:50:25 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as >many engines over the past 10 for 15 years have used computerised engine >management systems, why have we not seen much improvement in specific fuel >consumption? I would have thought that the systems would be able to run >the engine at optimum mixture and thus give a significant improvement in >economy. > >What processors have been used in these systems over the years? Lots of motorola, 68k etc. A well adjusted carburetor does a pretty good job, but a modern engine is close to amazing at just how well the it works given the cost. I drive a 4,000 lb full size Lincoln, with a 285 hp engine that gets 18 mpg around town, and close to zero emissions. Highway mpg hasn't changed much, because getting a correct mixture at a constanst cruise speed isn't nearly as hard of a job and carbs did just fine. The achievement is to get low emissions and good mpg during short trips around town, while the engine is still cold etc. Also my guess is that 'average' engine hp has about doubled in the last 2 decades, and that reduces mpg. From owad at applefritter.com Tue Mar 20 18:55:55 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <15031.57626.224557.325416@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <15031.57626.224557.325416@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010321005555.19967@mail.lafayette.edu> >> I would ask for the New Jersey Expo Center in Raritan NJ to be considered. >> It's right off the NJ Turnpike, the only road outsiders consider to exist in >> NJ anyways. > > Yeah, isn't that amazing? I grew up in NJ, and I go there from time >to time. I rarely see NJ license plates on the Turnpike. Weird. > > I'd also like to see it happen somewhere toward the "middle" of the >coast. While it's true that the southern states (at least NC, SC, and >GA) are less densely populated than the Great New England Sprawl, >there *is* life outside of Boston. > > If VCF East is reasonably accessible to the Washington DC area (and >I'd say NJ counts) you can count on me and at least a half dozen of my >friends to help out with all the setup stuff. And I'd plan to >exhibit, as well. If its held in NJ/PA I could help out and exhibit, also. The Raritan center is a nice location. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Mar 20 19:10:32 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mike Ford wrote: [snip] > Highway mpg hasn't changed much, > because getting a correct mixture at a constant cruise speed isn't nearly > as hard of a job and carbs did just fine. The achievement is to get low > emissions and good mpg during short trips around town, while the engine is > still cold etc. It's clearly the case that modern engine management does wonders for emissions, as well as for reliability -- the forest of vacuum lines, delay valves and motors has, in most modern engines, simply vanished. That said, a sophisticated engine management system clearly _can_ make a difference when it comes to highway mpg, because when steady state is achieved for even a short period of time the system can lean the hell out of the mixture. This, in fact, rather than emissions, was the reason the Porsche finally went to liquid cooling; the Motronic system could happily lean the mixture to the point where the cylinder head temperatures became untenable... Chris Who ripped out the injection and is running 50MM PMOs on his -- and (currently) hating it... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 18:01:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Oh great and mighty Sellam, have you considered the Worcester Centrum > Centre, located in sunny Worcester, MA, about 1 hour from Boston, and 1 hour > from Providence, RI (straight shot down Rt. 146)?? Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out tonight. I finally got all the data I need to find the optimal location based on all the survey responses I received. I mapped zip codes to lattitude & longitude coordinates and will try to use that intelligently to locate the prime locale. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Mar 20 19:13:30 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific 4P & 3" Amstrad Diskettes Message-ID: <38.13a39401.27e95a3a@aol.com> Hi; I have a couple of items that I think the group might be interested in. First is a complete Ohio Scientific 4P computer with attached drive. I have had it for 11 years. Unfortunately it went through my house fire about 10 years ago. It suffered smoke damage because it was in a room several rooms away from the fire. It doesn't show any signs of heat damage. It has it's attached floppy disk drive but I would assume the drive would not work. The outside is pretty ugly from the smoke damage. I could provide photos is anyone is interested. I am offering it to the list first. Unfortunately I am not looking for trades. I am moving soon and need to sell for cash. Please contact me offline at Whoagiii@aol.com if interested and if you have questions. The other item I have is on eBay and is closing tonight. It is a box of 3" CF-2 Amsoft Amstrad diskettes, new and still sealed. It's URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1222515348&r=0&t=0&show Tutorial=0&ed=985162040&indexURL=0&rd=1 Thanks Paxton Portland, OR From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 18:03:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > it hard to believe, though not impossible, that EVERY key died at the same > > time. Perhaps all on a row or all on a column, but not ALL keys. > > FWIW, on matrix keyboards, if a complete row or column goes out, then I > suspect a logic failure before I start checking switches. Switch problems > are normally just indivdual dead keys with no pattern to their positions. > And if the entire keyboard is dead, I certainly don't think it's all the > switches that have failed. But how can Rich know for certain if any keys are bad if he can't boot the system to begin with? From what he's said, he doesn't really know what keys work or don't work, just that ENTER and CTRL-C don't. > Are you _sure_ the keyboard is just contacts? If I were Rich (and hadn't done this yet) I'd disassemble the keyboard and see what's going on under the switches. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 18:07:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <10.a5e6056.27e94c8e@aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated Tue, 20 Mar 2001 6:29:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tony Eros writes: > > < could have it in my back yard... :-) > > -- Tony > > >> > > I'll third it.. NJ would be great! If you haven't yet, fill in the VCF East survey: http://www.vintage.org/survey.html If you hurry, your input will count towards my locale analysis :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 20 19:22:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 20, 1 04:03:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010321/6ef3413b/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 20 14:39:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010321014437.HCXS24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:50:25 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as > Lots of motorola, 68k etc. > > A well adjusted carburetor does a pretty good job, but a modern engine is > close to amazing at just how well the it works given the cost. I drive a > 4,000 lb full size Lincoln, with a 285 hp engine that gets 18 mpg around > town, and close to zero emissions. Highway mpg hasn't changed much, > because getting a correct mixture at a constanst cruise speed isn't nearly > as hard of a job and carbs did just fine. The achievement is to get low > emissions and good mpg during short trips around town, while the engine is > still cold etc. Your car should get better MPG on highway, 20 to 24 is what you should see, recheck your driving habits and do full tune up, get emissions up to snuff are suggested. 18 mpg city is not bad, highway not. My brother owns 20+ yr old heavy car w/ V8 and he said he can get 24mpg highway in that thing, btw it does have carb because I grew up w/ that nanny's, now his car. Oh remembered that, my other friend with a '89 caravan LE w/ V6 3.0L 3spd auto get that in city driving and bit better on road. Another friend has '90 caravan 2.5L n/a, 3spd auto got that terrible MPG too when O2 sensor was bad and no tune up till we did it. > Also my guess is that 'average' engine hp has about doubled in the last 2 > decades, and that reduces mpg. Actually, the torque went up, HP much less for given engine types but MPG *went* down and still is in '01. The fault is in weight have risen due to more options and safety stuff that is needlessly added for *no reason*. N.american big 3 didn't bother to develop more efficient enegines with latest stuff more especially on MPG and give us vehicles with less weight. Also Big 3 makers I think quit making small and compact vehicles. And didn't address the new vehicle cost. 24,000 is still much for same thing. Which I consider this a big must to survive this gas price crunch. Toyota, honda and VW and few other did their homework 20 years ago and still doing it now. For example, VW 1.8TDI get very good MPG and compareable HP compared to Chrysler's 2.5L turbo or 3.0 V6, both has less MPG and already 14 years old, same n/a 2.4L but it's still doesn't give good mpg, my brother car w/ v8 beat it that. There's more examples but I will leave this one alone for you to consider. I know I'm bummed for comparing gas to diesel but honda, toyota and others does produce efficient gas engines as well. This is my view because I'm keeping my eye on mailing lists and on newsgroups, websites so I'll be aware when looking for first vehicle of my own when I land job. I'd prefer to have a reliable bit-crunchy vehicle with seatbelt and manual stuff in it, leave computer alone just for that engine, and manual tranny, 40+MPG and bit nimble if I have to avoid accidents. I cannot find this in most vehicles for last 8 years. You can see I'm not looking at Honda, Hyraduai, KIA, I'm looking at older VWs, older 4 cylinder Chryslers, many Toyota and Nissan. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 20 14:52:45 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! Message-ID: <20010321015247.WCR19381.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:50:25 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as > Lots of motorola, 68k etc. Hmm, > > A well adjusted carburetor does a pretty good job, but a modern engine is > close to amazing at just how well the it works given the cost. I drive a > 4,000 lb full size Lincoln, with a 285 hp engine that gets 18 mpg around Cold engines is major emssions problem and do poorly on mpg while it's running rich to assist cold engine operation. Your car should get better MPG on highway, 20 to 24 is what you should see, recheck your driving habits and do full tune up, get emissions up to snuff and change that themostat are suggested. 18 mpg city is not bad, highway not. My brother owns 20+ yr old heavy car w/ V8 and he said he can get 24mpg highway in that thing, btw it does have carb because I grew up w/ that nanny's, now his car. Oh remembered that, my other friend with a '89 caravan LE w/ V6 3.0L 3spd auto get that in city driving and bit better on road. Another friend has '90 caravan 2.5L n/a, 3spd auto got that terrible MPG too when O2 sensor was bad and no tune up till we did it. > Also my guess is that 'average' engine hp has about doubled in the last 2 > decades, and that reduces mpg. Actually, the torque went up, HP much less for given engine types but MPG *went* down and still is in '01. The fault is in weight have risen due to more options and safety stuff that is needlessly added for *no reason*. N.american big 3 didn't bother to develop more efficient enegines with latest stuff more especially on MPG and give us vehicles with less weight. Also Big 3 makers I think quit making small and compact vehicles. And didn't address the new vehicle cost. 24,000 is still much for same thing. Which I consider this a big must to survive this gas price crunch. Toyota, honda and VW and few other did their homework 20 years ago and still doing it now. For example, VW 1.8TDI get very good MPG and compareable HP compared to Chrysler's 2.5L turbo or 3.0 V6, both has less MPG and already 14 years old, same n/a 2.4L but it's still doesn't give good mpg, my brother car w/ v8 beat it that. There's more examples but I will leave this one alone for you to consider. I know I'm bummed for comparing gas to diesel but honda, toyota and others does produce efficient gas engines as well. This is my view because I'm keeping my eye on mailing lists and on newsgroups, websites so I'll be aware when looking for first vehicle of my own when I land job. I'd prefer to have a reliable bit-crunchy vehicle with seatbelt and manual stuff in it, leave computer alone just for that engine, and manual tranny, 40+MPG and bit nimble if I have to avoid accidents. I cannot find this in most vehicles for last 8 years. You can see I'm not looking at Honda, Hyraduai, KIA, I'm looking at older VWs, older 4 cylinder Chryslers, many Toyota and Nissan. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 20 14:39:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010321013924.GZRO22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:50:25 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as > Lots of motorola, 68k etc. > > A well adjusted carburetor does a pretty good job, but a modern engine is > close to amazing at just how well the it works given the cost. I drive a > 4,000 lb full size Lincoln, with a 285 hp engine that gets 18 mpg around > town, and close to zero emissions. Highway mpg hasn't changed much, > because getting a correct mixture at a constanst cruise speed isn't nearly > as hard of a job and carbs did just fine. The achievement is to get low > emissions and good mpg during short trips around town, while the engine is > still cold etc. Your car should get better MPG on highway, 20 to 24 is what you should see, recheck your driving habits and do full tune up, get emissions up to snuff are suggested. 18 mpg city is not bad, highway not. My brother owns 20+ yr old heavy car w/ V8 and he said he can get 24mpg highway in that thing, btw it does have carb because I grew up w/ that nanny's, now his car. Oh remembered that, my other friend with a '89 caravan LE w/ V6 3.0L 3spd auto get that in city driving and bit better on road. Another friend has '90 caravan 2.5L n/a, 3spd auto got that terrible MPG too when O2 sensor was bad and no tune up till we did it. > Also my guess is that 'average' engine hp has about doubled in the last 2 > decades, and that reduces mpg. Actually, the torque went up, HP much less for given engine types but MPG *went* down and still is in '01. The fault is in weight have risen due to more options and safety stuff that is needlessly added for *no reason*. N.american big 3 didn't bother to develop more efficient enegines with latest stuff more especially on MPG and give us vehicles with less weight. Also Big 3 makers I think quit making small and compact vehicles. And didn't address the new vehicle cost. 24,000 is still much for same thing. Which I consider this a big must to survive this gas price crunch. Toyota, honda and VW and few other did their homework 20 years ago and still doing it now. For example, VW 1.8TDI get very good MPG and compareable HP compared to Chrysler's 2.5L turbo or 3.0 V6, both has less MPG and already 14 years old, same n/a 2.4L but it's still doesn't give good mpg, my brother car w/ v8 beat it that. There's more examples but I will leave this one alone for you to consider. I know I'm bummed for comparing gas to diesel but honda, toyota and others does produce efficient gas engines as well. This is my view because I'm keeping my eye on mailing lists and on newsgroups, websites so I'll be aware when looking for first vehicle of my own when I land job. I'd prefer to have a reliable bit-crunchy vehicle with seatbelt and manual stuff in it, leave computer alone just for that engine, and manual tranny, 40+MPG and bit nimble if I have to avoid accidents. I cannot find this in most vehicles for last 8 years. You can see I'm not looking at Honda, Hyraduai, KIA, I'm looking at older VWs, older 4 cylinder Chryslers, many Toyota and Nissan. Cheers, Wizard From mbg at world.std.com Tue Mar 20 19:58:50 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East Message-ID: <200103210158.UAA25038@world.std.com> I second the worcester centrum, although I'm sure it would be too costly to rent, what with all the monster truck shows and such that they put on there... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Mar 20 20:01:41 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East References: <000d01c0b18f$df4ed8a0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <200103210201.VAA29190@world.std.com> I would also help if it was in NJ (though I would hope for closer, as that makes it, I think, about 4 hours from boston) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Tue Mar 20 20:03:55 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East Message-ID: <200103210203.VAA02020@world.std.com> Sellam, after the survey is over, will you publish the data? Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cbajpai at mediaone.net Tue Mar 20 20:18:29 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific 4P & 3" Amstrad Diskettes In-Reply-To: <38.13a39401.27e95a3a@aol.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Innfogra@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 8:14 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Ohio Scientific 4P & 3" Amstrad Diskettes Hi; I have a couple of items that I think the group might be interested in. First is a complete Ohio Scientific 4P computer with attached drive. I have had it for 11 years. Unfortunately it went through my house fire about 10 years ago. It suffered smoke damage because it was in a room several rooms away from the fire. It doesn't show any signs of heat damage. It has it's attached floppy disk drive but I would assume the drive would not work. The outside is pretty ugly from the smoke damage. I could provide photos is anyone is interested. I am offering it to the list first. Unfortunately I am not looking for trades. I am moving soon and need to sell for cash. Please contact me offline at Whoagiii@aol.com if interested and if you have questions. The other item I have is on eBay and is closing tonight. It is a box of 3" CF-2 Amsoft Amstrad diskettes, new and still sealed. It's URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1222515348&r=0&t=0&sh ow Tutorial=0&ed=985162040&indexURL=0&rd=1 Thanks Paxton Portland, OR From ss at allegro.com Tue Mar 20 20:27:30 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: "Adventure" using a laser disk player and a "PC"? Message-ID: <3AB7A112.17869.3988B2F7@localhost> Hi, Does anyone remember an adventure-like game implmented using a computer (PC? Apple II?) and a laser disk player with a serial interface, and a laser disk of Rollerball? One of my co-workers thinks there was such a beast, and suggests I try to find it and get it running with the Sony Lasermax LDP-1550 I just got (assuming I can get a disk of Rollerball, of course :) thanks, Stan Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 20 20:33:05 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <200103210201.VAA29190@world.std.com> References: <000d01c0b18f$df4ed8a0$0a00a8c0@azog> <200103210201.VAA29190@world.std.com> Message-ID: I don't think it should be moved too far northward though as it then become quite a decent drive from anywhere to the south, even from the D.C. area where I happen to live. My original suggestion a number of months ago was the Boston area, though I wouldn't mind it being closer such as PA either. Jeff >I would also help if it was in NJ (though I would hope for >closer, as that makes it, I think, about 4 hours from boston) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Tue Mar 20 21:05:02 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Old Stuff Discount Warehouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific 4P & 3" Amstrad Diskettes References: <38.13a39401.27e95a3a@aol.com> Message-ID: <3AB81A5E.C0D4821A@internet1.net> How are we going to email you, if we, are offline :-) Chad Fernandez Michgan, USA Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I am moving soon and need to sell for cash. Please > contact me offline at Whoagiii@aol.com if interested and if you have > questions. From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 20:32:38 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Northstar Advantage 8/16 problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Indeed. I would like to know what is on the keyboard PCB, and what is > connected to the plug that it connects to on the CPU board. Maybe there's a broken wire in the keyboard connector? Or a loose contact? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 20:37:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <200103210203.VAA02020@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Megan wrote: > Sellam, after the survey is over, will you publish the data? Sure, that's not a problem. But it will be at the risk of pissing off those who think the data showed the site should have been chosen closer them :) Keep in mind I have to put practicality first. Ultimately the decision may come down to the place that has the most affordable venue. The admission has to remain reasonable. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Mar 20 20:52:00 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Request for suggestions that would be OT if not for the fact that it is VCF related ") Message-ID: I would like to find some sort of mapping software that will allow me to input a set of longitude and lattitude coordinates and a mileage radius from that point, ideally backset with the boundaries of the US States where the coordinates lay. What I am hoping to get is a visual of the preponderance of data points. If you took the VCF East survey (http://www.vintage.org/survey.html) you'll remember that one of the questions was to the effect of "you would come only if it is within X miles" where X was a number you input. So I would like to see where most of the data points and their radius areas intersect. If anyone has any suggestions for some free mapping software of this ilk, please e-mail me privately . Otherwise I guess I'll just have to write me some :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Mar 21 00:36:37 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Hp85a References: <3.0.1.16.20010319160119.0b2f4432@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3AB67E70.AE754DFC@kcinter.net> <3.0.5.32.20010320093906.007dae30@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3AB84BF4.DCD1FA0E@kcinter.net> Hi Edwin, I tried the ctape command and the wheel is definately slipping. Thanks for the info! Bill "Edwin P. Groot" wrote: > Hi Bill, > Try the CTAPE command. This stands for 'condition tape', and will > wind the tape one way, then wind it back. If that works, then the > ERASETAPE command will initialize your tape for storing data. The REWIND > command will take you to the first data block. > If you get any STALL errors, the 'rubber wheel' is probably slipping. > > Edwin > > At 09:35 PM 3/19/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >Well the system is just a basic system, all the slots are empty, doing a > >catalogue of the tape doesn't work, but it does recal the tape. give an > error. > >checking the tape drive capstan and the rubber wheel appears to be okay, > it may > >infact be the tape. anyone know how to make it do a retention? > > > >Thanks in advance for all your help! > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Bill From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 20 22:42:07 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010320125453.007bf7c0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > Hi Don, > Is there REALLY a CP/M-68K for Macs? Cool! I don't really know, Edwin, but I also don't know why there should not be! - don From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 20 22:52:43 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Mar 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > OK, one more dumb question about the SE/30. > > I have just Mac formatted a Toshiba 834mb drive to install in lieu of > the puny 31mb unit that came with it. Is it possible to partition this > drive into two or more bootable logical drives? Say, one for MacOS 7.n > and another for some ?nix derivative? Perhaps another for CP/M-68K? The picture has changed rather suddenly! Today I stopped at my favorite thrift shop and picked up an external SCSI drive and case for under $10. Imagine my pleasure when it turned out to contain a Quantum Trailblazer - the 800k one - loaded with MacOS 7.5.3 and numerous applications. I also stuffed some more memory into the SE/30 so it seems a bit more comfortable :) I will still pursue the bootable partitioned disk approach, but the later OS problem is certainly solved. Thanks! - don From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 20 18:15:23 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010321051515.KQKG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > The picture has changed rather suddenly! Today I stopped at my favorite > thrift shop and picked up an external SCSI drive and case for under $10. > Imagine my pleasure when it turned out to contain a Quantum Trailblazer > - the 800k one - loaded with MacOS 7.5.3 and numerous applications. I > also stuffed some more memory into the SE/30 so it seems a bit more > comfortable :) Woah! Good deal! Playing with different HDs in 32MB C610. 160 sleepy because of it and OS 8 on it (!!) but dangerously becoming full. 230 ok but comfortable due to 4500rpm and 256K buffer. 530MB IBM somewhat better and silent but too small buffer (64K) 3.2GB better but very buzzy vibration due to poorly balanced, Quantum is notorious for that. 2.1GB 7200rpm hd, made that mac more snappy than what it really is and I love it. Minus side: whine noise. :-( I see a trend: bigger buffer memory and faster rpm makes the difference on Mac. Choice of OS is important especially on ram size and secondly to cpu performance. For that SE/30, try 7.0.1 or 7.1 on it. 7.0.1 is free, 7.1 is bit harder to find but it's out there. Took me some work to ferret that out. Based on my experience, For SE (FDHD) and all Mac series (68000) use 6.0.8 w/ full 4MB which is Mac Plus and Mac classic, as well as old LC. Keep pcexhange installed on all Macs w/ 1.44MB drive always, this makes moving data so easy. Pc exhange is free downloadable, just find it but many OSes has it by default. Cheers, Wizard From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Mar 20 23:42:07 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Request for suggestions that would be OT if not for the fact that it is VCF related ") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey, you're an old Phone Guy.. wouldn't the programs for PABXes that use V&H coordinates for call-accounting be useful for this? There were a bunch of them that ran on various PC-type platforms. I had three running on a 1987 IBM PC-AT (in 1987) so it's even on topic, nyahh nyahh nyahh! Cheerz John From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Wed Mar 21 00:39:14 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems Message-ID: <13417.985156754@www36.gmx.net> Hi all, we're running a *small* network consisting of two Sun SPARCstations (1+ and 2) and a CalComp CCS600 ES laser printer. They're all connected to "Transceivers" with 15-pin Sub-D connectors on them which sit along a yellow cable (approx. 10mm = 4/10" in diameter). AFAIK this concept is called "Thick Ethernet" (IEEE 802.3), am I right? Now in an effort to connect our modern PC to this network as well, we've put another transceiver on the cable strictly according to the installation guide that came with it (drilling hole into cable with recommended tool etc...). Since we've done that, it's no longer possible to print from one of the SUNs to the CalComp although the PC is not yet connected to the transceiver. We couldn't test whether each SUN can see the other one as one of them is currently "down" (yes, the NVRAM's bad again...) The whole assembly looks somewhat like this: TermRes _______ _______ _________ _______ TermRes I-------I TC1 I------I TC2 I------I TC3 I------I TC4 I------I I I I I SUN 1+ SUN 2 CalComp (planned) PC TC1, 2 and 4 are from Intergraph, TC3 is a InterLan NV1000. Many thanks in advance for any help with that problem. Arno Kletzander -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.de From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Mar 21 01:35:29 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: Mac SE30 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010319102520.007e4ca0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010320233529.006a2d10@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Hi Don, You made me drag my SE/30 out to have a look. For what it's worth my SE/30 has StuffIt 3.5.2 with the Minimal StuffIt Engine v.3.0.3. It works fine under System 7.1, 40 MB HDD, 8 MB RAM. MODE32 is enabled, but in the Memory control panel, 32-bit addressing is off, and virtual memory is off. Edwin At 02:02 PM 3/19/2001 -0800, you wrote: >On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: >> So, what's the error message you get when you open this .sit archive >> in version 1.5? >Words to the effect that it did not understand the compression mode >used. Looks like you need an updated StuffIt Expander. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 21 02:52:13 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:20 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: Arno Kletzander "SUN networking problems" (Mar 21, 7:39) References: <13417.985156754@www36.gmx.net> Message-ID: <10103210852.ZM917@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 21, 7:39, Arno Kletzander wrote: > we're running a *small* network consisting of two Sun SPARCstations (1+ and > 2) and a CalComp CCS600 ES laser printer. They're all connected to > "Transceivers" with 15-pin Sub-D connectors on them which sit along a yellow cable > (approx. 10mm = 4/10" in diameter). AFAIK this concept is called "Thick Ethernet" > (IEEE 802.3), am I right? Yes, that's right. > we've put another transceiver on the cable strictly according to the > installation guide that came with it (drilling hole into cable with > recommended tool etc...). > Since we've done that, it's no longer possible to print from one of the > SUNs to the CalComp although the PC is not yet connected to the > transceiver. > The whole assembly looks somewhat like this: > > TermRes _______ _______ _________ _______ TermRes > I-------I TC1 I------I TC2 I------I TC3 I------I TC4 I------I > I I I I > SUN 1+ SUN 2 CalComp (planned) PC It sounds like you've shorted the cable. Do those transceivers have a set of LEDs on them? I suspect not, but that might tell you if anything is being transmitted/received. You could try removing one terminator and testing the DC resistance between core and shield of the coax; it should be 50 ohms with nothing powered up. If you have shorted it, the best solution is to cut out the damaged part, fit an N-series plug to both ends, and put a coupler between them. Or, instead of a coupler, a transceiver with N-series connections (which are more common and cheaper than vampire taps anyway). Another way is to discard some or all of the thick coax, and use thin coax with BNC connectors instead. Then you use BNC T-pieces to connect to miniature transceivers, which are fitted directly to the 15-pin sub-D AUI connectors on the backs of the machines, with no bulky drop cables. You can get N-to-BNC adaptors and BNC terminators for pennies. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 21 02:52:44 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <20010321014437.HCXS24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: >You can see I'm not looking at Honda, Hyraduai, KIA, I'm looking at >older VWs, older 4 cylinder Chryslers, many Toyota and Nissan. Think about the little Volvos, last time I drove one I really liked it. Here in So Cal we make no pretense to sanity on cars. Regards mpg on the Continental, on the highway most of the time cruise speed is close to 85 mph. BTW this big nasty Lincoln only runs on premium. From foo at siconic.com Wed Mar 21 04:11:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Request for suggestions that would be OT if not for the fact that it is VCF related ") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, John Lawson wrote: > Hey, you're an old Phone Guy.. wouldn't the programs for PABXes that > use V&H coordinates for call-accounting be useful for this? There were > a bunch of them that ran on various PC-type platforms. I had three > running on a 1987 IBM PC-AT (in 1987) so it's even on topic, nyahh > nyahh nyahh! I considered using V&H tables (which I am very well familiar with...V&H tables rock! :) But the problem is I would have to map the city names of the zip codes from the survey responses to the Bellcore city names in the V&H tables, and that's not an easy task. I once wrote some FoxPro code to do intelligent name matching from a real city name to the 10-character Bellcore abbreviated city name, and that took a decent bit of work. I don't know if I have that old code still laying around on some harddrive around here. But the real hard part is figuring out how to plot V&H coordinates onto a map of the US. Anyway, it would've ended up being more work. And I never came across any of the software you describe above. They probably had that for fancier switches than I've played with. I ended up pilfering latitude and lognitude coordinates by zip code off a free zip-code lookup website by writing a Perl script that would make the HTTP server request and then parse the relevant data out of the HTML when it came back. It worked great, although the service (http://www.zipinfo.com/) only allows 30 searches per day by IP address, so I had to collect the data I needed over three and a half days :) Tonight I found some pretty cool mapping software called WorldTime, the so-called "swiss army knife" of world clocks. It's really geared towards being a world time utility but it has a feature that allows you to enter and then plot locations by latitude and logitude over a map of any part of the world. You can have three different map projection views: spherical, cartesian, and mercator. Once you selected all the points to plot, it displays them over the map with the names you assigned to them. I found the software on TUCOWS, but you can get it directly from . It took me a while to enter about 70+ lat. & lon. points but I did it and have come up with a result. It looks like the optimal spot for the Festival is definitely in the Rhodes Island area. I'll put together the data and present it tomorrow. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 05:40:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: IBM P70 solution Message-ID: <01Mar21.064725est.119092@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> It turns out that the IBM Bios on the Future Domain MCS700 SCSI board was conflicting with the ESDI controller built into the P70. The solution was simple...one of those things so simple you don't even consider until someone else points it out. I pulled the BIOS off of the SCSI card! I had initially tried disabling the BIOS in the system setup but that didn't work. Now that I've pulled the BIOS physically off the board, the conflicts have disappeared and I had both a CD-ROM and external 1gig SCSI hard disk running off of it's SCSI-2 connector in no time, using the IBM drivers for OS/2 and the Future Domain PowerSCSI 4 drivers under DOS. Too bad I lose the bootability doing this, but that's not an issue at the moment. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 05:45:06 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Data General Nova stuff Message-ID: <01Mar21.065120est.119055@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Did anyone else notice the approximately 2 dozen Data General Nova items that were just placed on eBay? It includes hardware, papertape software and manuals. Thought some of you Nova types might find it interesting if you hadn't seen the posts. Jeff From MTPro at aol.com Wed Mar 21 09:07:15 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes Message-ID: <9b.12814a12.27ea1da4@aol.com> I would like to thank everyone who responded to my earlier post, I have made some progress with the cubes. << Those are not 'original 1988 boxes'. The original 1988 NeXTcomputer had a 25 MHz 68030 board in the backplane. >> Sorry, I described them poorly. They are indeed original 1988 NeXT Cubes, this copyright date is on the cases. I assume that their original logic boards were replaced by NASA with the '040 boards. << First, put a 50-ohm terminator on that connector, so the NeXT thinks it is connected to a live (but very small!) network. >> Is this something I can pick up at say Radio Shack? Does it looks kind of like a little metal cap that fits on the coaxial connector? <> Excellent stuff here! << Here is the procedure for breaking the password: . . .>> Thanks Lawrence! It worked well. I can get into the NeXT ROM monitor on both. So . . with the Turbo, it is indeed a 33MHz 68040 logic board with 32mb of RAM and a 350mb hard drive. I have reset the root password and can start system services. The only problem I am facing now is that it gets to a place where it is looking for a NASA domain server: "yp: server not responding for domain "sewp" ; still trying." This will just keep repeating, give a count as to trys, etc. Would a terminator stop this? Can I bypass it looking for a host? The other NeXT Cube is indeed a 25MHz 68040 logic board with 48mb of RAM and a 350mb hard drive. I have given it the command to boot from the hard drive "bsd -s" and it seems that it begins too by displaying "boot sd (0,0,0) -s", but then it has an exception error: "Exception #2 (0x8) at )x100b9dc" Is the hard drive bad? Is it just blank or in need of formatting? I appreciate all of the help. From flo at rdel.co.uk Wed Mar 21 09:41:00 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 Message-ID: <3AB8CB8C.3A00278E@uk.thalesgroup.com> I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Mar 21 09:57:17 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: VCF East In-Reply-To: <10.a5e6056.27e94c8e@aol.com> Message-ID: > < unless we > could have it in my back yard... :-) > > -- Tony > > >> > > I'll third it.. NJ would be great! I would be quite likely to show up with a truckload of OSI if it was in NJ. From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Mar 21 09:39:59 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Kerrvile TX pictures In-Reply-To: <200103202147.PAA42698@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: All, Two members of the list have kindly offered to web-host the pictures I took this weekend. Goldarg has his site up: >I've put them up at http://gecko.myftp.org/ClassicCMP/ and they are listed >off of http://gecko.myftp.org as "Mark Tapley's pictures for the ClassicCMP >mailing list"' Dan Veeneman is working on putting them up at another site, details to follow. Thanks to both, and to everyone else, surf away! - Mark From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 21 11:14:38 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010321121438.3d5f2230@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hey Tony! are you listening? Didn't you post a message about how to replace these key contacts a couple of years ago? It might be time to re-post it. Better yet. Maybe someone could post it on their vintage computer web sight. Joe (who has a nice working T 6000 and wouldn't part with the keyboard for a farm in Georgia!) At 12:32 PM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Can someone help this guy out? There may be a Tandy 6000 in it down the >road. > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:20:53 -0500 >From: Club 27 >Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard > >Dear Museum founder: Have a Tandy 6000 HD system operating in Xenix. >Have all the original 8 1/2" floppies for the OS, and for 'Scripsit' (Word >Processing), and for 'Unify' (a RDMS) -- including all the Owners Manuals, >and even the Technical Service Manual. However, I really need to keep >this old mini-computer working for another 2 years before I pass it along >to some collector or museum. > I am prepared to make a deal (YOU can set the terms) with the >individual who is directly instrumental in providing the assistance I need >to keep my keyboard operational or who can assist me to acquire one or >preferably two old keyboards for this unit. The problem is that the >individual key contacts are failing, one after another. They are easily >repaired/replaced -- but I have run out of the ability to switch the sound >contact pads from the seldom used redundant keys to those that have >failed. I am unable to find a source for these wee electrical contacts, >and am looking to - beg, borrow or steal, or buy - a whole keyboard or two >from which I can pirate the needed parts. > Can you help me, and/or redirect me ? What would be your terms ? >Tom - at Club 27 > >--- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 21 11:04:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010321120412.0977fc08@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:41 PM 3/20/01 +0000, Pete wrote: > >To drag this topic kicking and screaming back towards the list topic, as >many engines over the past 10 for 15 years have used computerised engine >management systems, why have we not seen much improvement in specific fuel >consumption? Probably because carurators are a lot more effective than most people think. One major advantage of the comperized system is that it should not degrade over time the way that a mechanical carburator does. In addition, an electronic system with it's feedback system can adjust for a wider range of conditions than a carburator can. The one area where an electronic system is much more effective than a carburator is in cold starting. In a cold engine, a lot of the fuel puddles on the metal surfaces causing wasted fuel and high hydro-carbon emmissions. Direct fuel injection in to the combustion chamber alleviates a lot of that. Joe From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Wed Mar 21 10:26:34 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Syracuse big iron Message-ID: I recall someone posted that he had seen some big VAX and IBM iron in a Syracuse recycler yard. I live about two hours away and might be interested in a rescue mission. Repost? Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Mar 21 10:36:23 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Syracuse big iron Message-ID: <2f.12a04a01.27ea3287@aol.com> In a message dated 3/21/01 11:34:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, brian.roth@firstniagarabank.com writes: > I recall someone posted that he had seen some big VAX and IBM iron in a > Syracuse recycler yard. I live about two hours away and might be interested > in a rescue mission. > > Repost? > > > Brian. Ditto here.. I am 2 hrs away as well and would *love* to get another VAX (I have a 3100 now). -Linc. From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Mar 21 10:49:36 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard Message-ID: For those in the Washington DC area, the 3/29 auction will include several pdp 11s. Look at: http://sales.gsfc.nasa.gov/items.cgi?salenumber=80322620010016 I've never been to one of these (I keep wanting to but can never seem to make the time), but I understand that stuff goes at scrap prices. From red at bears.org Wed Mar 21 11:15:46 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: <9b.12814a12.27ea1da4@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 MTPro@aol.com wrote: > << Those are not 'original 1988 boxes'. The original 1988 NeXTcomputer > had a 25 MHz 68030 board in the backplane. >> > > Sorry, I described them poorly. They are indeed original 1988 NeXT > Cubes, this copyright date is on the cases. I assume that their > original logic boards were replaced by NASA with the '040 boards. That did happen. Mine is that way. FWIW I believe the original '030 chassis say "NeXTcomputer" on the back instead of "NeXTcube". Any cube chassis with milled openings for a 3.5" floppy disk drive is of the latter classification. I don't think the copyright date changes in either case. One thing you will want to verify is that the fan pushes air through the back of the filter on the optical drive, and blows it out the front of the chassis, rather than the other way around. I've never run yp on my NeXTs but I'll take a look and see how to unconfigure it. ok r. From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Mar 21 11:12:46 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010321121438.3d5f2230@mailhost.intellistar.net> from Joe at "Mar 21, 2001 12:14:38 pm" Message-ID: <200103211712.JAA21799@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > >Can someone help this guy out? There may be a Tandy 6000 in it down the >road. I don't have one available, but thought that I would point out that the keyboard from a Model 2, 12, or 16 should work on the 6000. Since the Model 2 is probably the most abundant one around a keyboard for it should be easier to find. > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:20:53 -0500 >From: Club 27 >Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard > >Dear Museum founder: Have a Tandy 6000 HD system operating in Xenix. >Have all the original 8 1/2" floppies for the OS, and for 'Scripsit' (Word >Processing), and for 'Unify' (a RDMS) -- including all the Owners Manuals, >and even the Technical Service Manual. However, I really need to keep >this old mini-computer working for another 2 years before I pass it along >to some collector or museum. > I am prepared to make a deal (YOU can set the terms) with the >individual who is directly instrumental in providing the assistance I need >to keep my keyboard operational or who can assist me to acquire one or >preferably two old keyboards for this unit. The problem is that the >individual key contacts are failing, one after another. They are easily >repaired/replaced -- but I have run out of the ability to switch the sound >contact pads from the seldom used redundant keys to those that have >failed. I am unable to find a source for these wee electrical contacts, >and am looking to - beg, borrow or steal, or buy - a whole keyboard or two >from which I can pirate the needed parts. > Can you help me, and/or redirect me ? What would be your terms ? >Tom - at Club 27 > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 11:26:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <10103210852.ZM917@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010321172606.79724.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 21, 7:39, Arno Kletzander wrote: > > > we're running a *small* network... "Thick Ethernet" (IEEE 802.3) > If you have shorted it, the best solution is to cut out the damaged part, > fit an N-series plug to both ends, and put a coupler between them. Or, > instead of a coupler, a transceiver with N-series connections (which are > more common and cheaper than vampire taps anyway). Is there currently a source for the tap part for the older, boxy transceivers that have removable media bits? I remember reading in the O'Reilly Ethernet book that it was common to remove the transceiver from the tap and leave the tap on the Etherhose, presumably to avoid damage and in case someone wanted a computer at that location again in the future. I have a couple of the (Cabletron?) units of the same model, one with a vampire tap and one with a BNC for 10Base2. Worst case, I guess I could make some N-to-BNC thing and use a 10Base2 transciever. I keep fostering this fantasy of putting up a 10Base5 segment for Histerical Raisins. I have enough old DEC equipment that I'd like to link together a VS2000 and my 8200 with it, just to show people that there _was_ networking before UTP. I can make N terminators with no problem. I have one tap (but no tap drill). The part I really need (and haven't been looking _too_ hard for) is the cable itself. I figure I'll go looking for it seriously once I have something to hang off of it. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 21 11:28:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard (Bill Sudbrink) References: Message-ID: <15032.58560.104984.415823@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 21, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > For those in the Washington DC area, the 3/29 auction will include > several pdp 11s. Look at: > > http://sales.gsfc.nasa.gov/items.cgi?salenumber=80322620010016 > > I've never been to one of these (I keep wanting to but can never seem > to make the time), but I understand that stuff goes at scrap prices. I've been to several of these. While otherwise wonderful, these auctions have classic "government auction" problems. You'll see, for example, a lot consisting of three pallets of stuff...one will contain a Dynabyte or something like that with ZERO cash value but that you'd really love to get, and the rest of it will consist of 2.5 pallets of dead VGA monitors. During the auction you'll find some guy who bids the lot up to $3,000. Wondering why, you watch him loading it into his truck at the end of the day...and underneath the dead VGA monitors will be one HP 8566B spectrum analyzer or something like that, that he will have ALREADY SOLD on his cell phone for $20,000. The bottom line is this...these types of auctions are great and lots of fun, and people like us can get good stuff cheaply through them. But keep in mind that there are hardened, experienced professionals that show up for every one of these, and make a ton of money doing it. If you get in their way, you will be steamrolled...that's all there is to it. My intention is not to discourage anyone from going and trying...by all means, go! Just watch out for the guys I talk about above...you'll recognize them as soon as you see them start bidding. And if you do go to this one, and happen to see an overweight guy with big bushy brown hair, that's probably me. :) That said, I may try to make it out for that one. There are a few RK07 drives in one lot as well...I love RK07s! :-) -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 21 11:38:09 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 (Paul Williams) References: <3AB8CB8C.3A00278E@uk.thalesgroup.com> Message-ID: <15032.59137.325858.883404@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 21, Paul Williams wrote: > I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a > scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if > I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and > metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. Good score! The 4000-500 is a *nice* machine. *drool* -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Mar 21 11:51:14 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: <3AB8CB8C.3A00278E@uk.thalesgroup.com> Message-ID: >I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a >scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if >I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and >metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. Very funny. At one point I was using my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 as a bedside table though..... Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tony.eros at machm.org Wed Mar 21 12:06:25 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010321130444.03048988@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 11:49 AM 3/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >For those in the Washington DC area, the 3/29 auction will include >several pdp 11s. Look at: > >http://sales.gsfc.nasa.gov/items.cgi?salenumber=80322620010016 > >I've never been to one of these (I keep wanting to but can never seem >to make the time), but I understand that stuff goes at scrap prices. Oh now, this is cool! I'll have to keep an eye on this place now that the DMRO depot in Philadelphia closed. -- Tony From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Mar 21 12:13:03 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: <15032.58560.104984.415823@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > > For those in the Washington DC area, the 3/29 auction will include > > several pdp 11s. Look at: > > > > http://sales.gsfc.nasa.gov/items.cgi?salenumber=80322620010016 > > > > I've never been to one of these (I keep wanting to but can never seem > > to make the time), but I understand that stuff goes at scrap prices. > > I've been to several of these. While otherwise wonderful, these > auctions have classic "government auction" problems. You'll see, for > example, a lot consisting of three pallets of stuff...one will contain > a Dynabyte or something like that with ZERO cash value but that you'd > really love to get, and the rest of it will consist of 2.5 pallets of > dead VGA monitors. During the auction you'll find some guy who bids > the lot up to $3,000. Wondering why, you watch him loading it into > his truck at the end of the day...and underneath the dead VGA monitors > will be one HP 8566B spectrum analyzer or something like that, that he > will have ALREADY SOLD on his cell phone for $20,000. In your expirence, and using the above example, could you approach the guy and make an offer for the Dynabyte or will he get pissy or greedy? From azog at azog.org Wed Mar 21 12:35:40 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wondering if anyone has posted the VAXBar to this list yet? > > >I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a > >scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if > >I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and > >metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. > > Very funny. At one point I was using my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 as a bedside > table though..... From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 21 12:42:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: RE: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard (Bill Sudbrink) References: <15032.58560.104984.415823@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15032.62978.85358.712285@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 21, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > I've been to several of these. While otherwise wonderful, these > > auctions have classic "government auction" problems. You'll see, for > > example, a lot consisting of three pallets of stuff...one will contain > > a Dynabyte or something like that with ZERO cash value but that you'd > > really love to get, and the rest of it will consist of 2.5 pallets of > > dead VGA monitors. During the auction you'll find some guy who bids > > the lot up to $3,000. Wondering why, you watch him loading it into > > his truck at the end of the day...and underneath the dead VGA monitors > > will be one HP 8566B spectrum analyzer or something like that, that he > > will have ALREADY SOLD on his cell phone for $20,000. > > In your expirence, and using the above example, could you approach the guy > and make an offer for the Dynabyte or will he get pissy or greedy? That works sometimes...unless it's a big machine and the guy is planning on scrapping it for gold. I lost out on a gorgeous Convex C3800 supercomputer about two years ago that way. The $3000 I had in my pocket was less than the scrapper got for the gold in the machine. For smaller stuff, though, as long as they don't smell money, that approach does work. -Dave McGuire From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Mar 21 12:51:56 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Unix filesystem checks In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD1761B5@exchange.softwright.co.uk> from "Julian Richardson" at Feb 20, 2001 09:23:03 AM Message-ID: <200103211851.KAA25099@eskimo.com> Julian Richardson wrote: > Any ideas what the next step is? Do I just have to look at the contents of > files and directories in /lost+found (they're all numbered rather than named > - by inode or something?) and try to figure out what everything in there is? > (there's a lot of files there - I suppose I'm quite lucky the system even > booted) That's going to be painful (and probably impossible for some of the > data) - presumably the original filenames have been lost in the corruption? Yes, I think you will have to hunt through the lost+found directory. Maybe you can compare file contents with the ones on the original disk. I've never actually rebuilt a file system that old, though. Some URLs: http://www.hu.freebsd.org/hu/doc/smm/03.fsck/paper.html BSD version of the original paper on fsck -- lists and defines all the errors. http://www.hu.freebsd.org/hu/doc/smm/03.fsck/ PostScript and ASCII versions of the above are hiding here. You can also get the paper as a Computer Science Technical Report from one of AT&T's Web servers, though I forget where. http://www.sco.com/offers/ancient.html Agree to the license, download the System III distribution, and you can poke through the source to fsck. :) -- Derek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 21 12:48:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: <10103210852.ZM917@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 21, 1 08:52:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2075 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010321/d58dc0e3/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 21 12:58:01 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lay enough PS/2 models 60/65/80 on their side flat together and throw a bedspread over them they make one heck of a bed to go with the end tables. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy => Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 11:51 AM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: Re: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 => => => >I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a => >scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if => >I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and => >metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. => => Very funny. At one point I was using my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 as => a bedside => table though..... => => Zane => -- => | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | => | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | => | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | => +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ => | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | => | and Zane's Computer Museum. | => | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | => From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Mar 21 13:08:40 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: DEC RZ26L drive? References: <3AB8CB8C.3A00278E@uk.thalesgroup.com> <15032.59137.325858.883404@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AB8FC35.4D2A28B7@eoni.com> I've been offered a DEC RZ26L SCSI drive. Searching 'The Tech Page' shows no entries for DEC drives. Does anyone know where I might find the specs? TIA. Jim From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 21 13:00:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010321121438.3d5f2230@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 21, 1 12:14:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 895 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010321/8ef61672/attachment.ksh From bob.renshaw at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 21 14:41:28 2001 From: bob.renshaw at dial.pipex.com (Bob Renshaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 2213 Service Manual Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010321203940.00ab9e20@pop.dial.pipex.com> Hi, I am looking for a full service manual or the power supply diagrams for a Tektronix 2213 scope. Can anybody help? Regards Bob Renshaw UK From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 21 14:44:54 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems)" (Mar 21, 9:26) References: <20010321172606.79724.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10103212044.ZM1240@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 21, 9:26, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Is there currently a source for the tap part for the older, boxy transceivers > that have removable media bits? I remember reading in the O'Reilly Ethernet > book that it was common to remove the transceiver from the tap and leave the > tap on the Etherhose, presumably to avoid damage and in case someone wanted > a computer at that location again in the future. Yes, it was fairly common. And I've seen "boxy transceivers" recently in some network suppliers catalogues (but in the UK, which might not help Ethan). And they were pretty expensive in the catalogues (rarity value, probably). FWIW, all the ones I've seen which used the removable type of tap, had the same fiting, so my BICC, 3Com, and Cabletron transceivers and taps are interchangable. I never had any vampire taps (hint: I want one for my display) but I wouldn't be surprised to find they were interchangable too. If you didn't know, there are two screws visible near the top of the transceiver; take those out (they're quite long as they go almost all the way through the body) and the tap part should come off quite easily. The screws don't screw into the tap, they go through holes in it and screw into the rear of the transceiver body; they are only there to stop the tap falling off (or in the case of cables of the floor, to stop the transceiver falling off the tap it's hanging from!). > I have a couple of the > (Cabletron?) units of the same model, one with a vampire tap and one with a > BNC for 10Base2. Worst case, I guess I could make some N-to-BNC thing and use > a 10Base2 transciever. Yes, that would work. Some of my taps have an N connector on each end, some have a sort of BNC T-piece, and some just have a single BNC (bring your own T). N-to-BNC adaptors are fairly common and cheap. > I keep fostering this fantasy of putting up a 10Base5 > segment for Histerical Raisins. I don't have an operational 10base5 segment at the moment, but I do have all the bits, and I do use some of the old transceivers (with BNC fittings or adaptors) and real thick blue drop cables for my Vax and '11s. If it wouldn't cost so much to ship, I'd trade some of my thick yellow cable for a vampire tap :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 21 14:32:43 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: MTPro@aol.com "NeXT '040 Cubes" (Mar 21, 10:07) References: <9b.12814a12.27ea1da4@aol.com> Message-ID: <10103212032.ZM1236@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 21, 10:07, MTPro@aol.com wrote: > << First, put a 50-ohm terminator on that connector, so the NeXT thinks it is connected to a live (but very small!) network. >> > > Is this something I can pick up at say Radio Shack? Does it looks kind of like a little metal cap that fits on the coaxial connector? Yes, it looks just like a BNC plug with either a metal or plastic cap. In fact, I have a couple that have been made by soldering a 1/4 watt 50-ohm resistor into an ordinary 50-ohm BNC plug (BNC connectors come in two types: those with a characteristic impedance of 50 ohms, used for test equipment, thin Ethernet, etc; and those with a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms, mostly used for TV and video signals). > "yp: server not responding for domain "sewp" ; still trying." > > This will just keep repeating, give a count as to trys, etc. Would a terminator stop this? Can I bypass it looking for a host? I don't think this is going to be solved by fitting a terminator, though it may help a little (by improving the timing!). What you need to do is find out what it's trying to do that it needs to find a NIS server. Most likely it's trying to look up a machine name, possibly to mount a remote filesystem. Now I haven't had my NeXT very long, so I'm not sure if the relevant files are quite the same as on the Unix systems I'm more familiar with, and it's not here to check. But I'd look at the file "/etc/resolv.conf" and see if there's a line that looks a bit like "hostresorder nis files" or "hostresorder nis local" -- if there is, change it to "hostresorder local bind" (or anything to remove the "nis"). That line tells the network software how to look up name-to-address mappings ("host resolution order"). the possible options are NIS (Network Information Service), "local" (a local file containing mappings, called "/etc/hosts"), and BIND (Berkeley Internet Name Daemon, which is what DNS servers use). Changing hostresorder will redirect the lookups, and the system may just stop trying. The real solution, though, is to prevent those lookups that aren't going to work. If the reason for the lookup is to mount a filesystem from a remote server's disk(s), the place to look (on a Unix system, at least) would be /etc/fstab. Remote filesystems are identifiable as type NFS or by having a server name and a colon ':' prefixing the filesystem name. Comment those out by prefixing the line with a hash symbol. > The other NeXT Cube is indeed a 25MHz 68040 logic board with 48mb of RAM and a 350mb hard drive. I have given it the command to boot from the hard drive "bsd -s" and it seems that it begins too by displaying "boot sd (0,0,0) -s", but then it has an exception error: > > "Exception #2 (0x8) at )x100b9dc" > > Is the hard drive bad? Is it just blank or in need of formatting? I appreciate all of the help. Possibly not. sd(0,0,0) may not be the correct partition to boot from -- what does the working one do? The numbers are the controller, drive ID, and partition (section) of the drive to load. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Wed Mar 21 14:57:26 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 References: <3AB8CB8C.3A00278E@uk.thalesgroup.com> <15032.59137.325858.883404@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AB915B6.ED8AE7B@tinyworld.co.uk> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On March 21, Paul Williams wrote: > > I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work > > with a scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I > > figure that if I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny > > bits of plastic and metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside > > cabinet. Heh heh. > > Good score! The 4000-500 is a *nice* machine. *drool* Shame about the two huge MicroVAX II cabinets that went in the skip later on, but they didn't fit in my car. I keep asking the IT Department to let me know about kit that will be skipped, but getting to it in time is a problem. Buying beers for the IT Manager on Friday lunchtimes only works if he can still remember his reckless offers on Monday morning! It appears that the 4000 is dry now, and when I unscrewed various bits I could see why. The heavy case only houses two boards, fan and PSU! No disks, so I guess it booted from somewhere else in the cluster. I also see that I misread the badge; it's a VAX 4000-505A, which I think makes it younger than 10 years old. I managed to grab two TK50 drives from the MVAXIIs. I don't know whether they're working, and there are no cables, but if anyone wants to risk the price of postage in order to get one, let me know (UK only, please). They weigh about 2.5kg, which Parcelforce will probably round up to 3kg for calculating postage. Paul From sean at techcare.com Wed Mar 21 14:55:22 2001 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010319224440.01f8ceb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <05ad01c0b249$3f6b7ea0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 1:44 AM Subject: Re: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? > DECStation 3100 > > At 07:18 PM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: > >So... what strange DEC gear uses them? Old AXP boxes? Old MIPS boxes? > ...and selected DECstation 5100/xxx boxes. I know the /133 does, among probably a few others. I've got some of these laying around spare for my 3100. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 21 15:26:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: References: <10103210852.ZM917@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 21, 1 08:52:13 am Message-ID: All I know about this is that back in the dark days my wife was doing network stuff she told me the most usefull tool she had were the tweezers on her swiss army knife for picking bits of the shield out of thick ethernet taps. Pick out the bits of wire. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 21 15:22:14 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: References: <15032.58560.104984.415823@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >> I've been to several of these. While otherwise wonderful, these >> auctions have classic "government auction" problems. You'll see, for >> example, a lot consisting of three pallets of stuff...one will contain >> a Dynabyte or something like that with ZERO cash value but that you'd >> really love to get, and the rest of it will consist of 2.5 pallets of >> dead VGA monitors. During the auction you'll find some guy who bids >> the lot up to $3,000. Wondering why, you watch him loading it into >> his truck at the end of the day...and underneath the dead VGA monitors >> will be one HP 8566B spectrum analyzer or something like that, that he >> will have ALREADY SOLD on his cell phone for $20,000. > >In your expirence, and using the above example, could you approach the guy >and make an offer for the Dynabyte or will he get pissy or greedy? You don't try, you don't know. With most of these guys its business, but time is money, so don't expect to haggle over $50 to $100 when they are working on $10,000. Don't get in their way, ie don't expect them to put the cell phone call on hold to chat. Wait til they look halfway free, then tell them two things; first that you want some specific item, and make a fair offer for it. A really good phrase is that you have one and need some parts. Don't offer too much, but make it worth his while to talk to you, ie $20 to $50 unless it has some obvious value. Lots of the time if an offer is genuine, but small to them they say take it. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 21 15:22:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: <10103212032.ZM1236@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 21, 1 08:32:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010321/94f84f7d/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Mar 21 15:33:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? In-Reply-To: <05ad01c0b249$3f6b7ea0$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <20010321213302.29277.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sean Caron wrote: > > At 07:18 PM 3/19/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >So... what strange DEC gear uses them? Old AXP boxes? Old MIPS boxes? > > > > ...and selected DECstation 5100/xxx boxes. I know the /133 does, among > probably a few others. Thanks for the tip. I do have one of those, but I didn't look in there because the case is so tough to open (tight friction fit). I got it for free w/RAM and an ST1480 disk with some version of Ultrix on it. The machine also happened to have two frame buffers, but I have no 3w3 cables (or DEC workstation monitors), so I've only operated it with a serial console. Don't remember if it's full of RAM or not. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 21 15:32:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <10103212044.ZM1240@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 21, 1 08:44:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2632 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010321/67f18314/attachment.ksh From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Mar 22 16:34:43 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard References: <2734A4B26607D411BEF100508B027B524E2D6C@SBEXCH1> Message-ID: <003401c0b320$df120780$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Is this a similar keyboard then the one from a TRS80 model 2000? Looks a lot like the same on the photos I have seen...and since the machine are from a similar "era"... If thats the case, I hooked up a more recent Tandy TX (83 Keys?) keyboard to an old TRS80 model 2000 and all works fine...the pinout on the connector is just not the same (I made an DIN adapter plug so I did not have to modify the TX keyboard)... I suspect this might also work fort machines like the TRS80 model IVP...and similars... Claude >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:20:53 -0500 >From: Club 27 > > >Subject: Need Tandy 6000 Keyboard > >Dear Museum founder: Have a Tandy 6000 HD system operating in Xenix. >Have all the original 8 ? " floppies for the OS, and for 'Scripsit' (Word >Processing), and for 'Unify' (a RDMS) -- including all the Owners Manuals, >and even the Technical Service Manual. However, I really need to keep >this old mini-computer working for another 2 years before I pass it along >to some collector or museum. > I am prepared to make a deal (YOU can set the terms) with the >individual who is directly instrumental in providing the assistance I need >to keep my keyboard operational or who can assist me to acquire one or >preferably two old keyboards for this unit. The problem is that the >individual key contacts are failing, one after another. They are easily >repaired/replaced-but I have run out of the ability to switch the sound >contact pads from the seldom used redundant keys to those that have >failed. I am unable to find a source for these wee electrical contacts, >and am looking to - beg, borrow or steal, or buy - a whole keyboard or two >from which I can pirate the needed parts. > Can you help me, and/or redirect me ? What would be your terms ? >Tom - at Club 27 > From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 17:22:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: <15032.58560.104984.415823@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <15032.58560.104984.415823@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > That said, I may try to make it out for that one. There are a few >RK07 drives in one lot as well...I love RK07s! :-) Makes me wish I had a place to store a bunch of DEC stuff if I did happen to have the winning bid at this one. Lot #78 and #79 is just full of it. And I live right across the street from Goddard! Alas, too many computers, not enough space..... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 21 17:26:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010321130444.03048988@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010321130444.03048988@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: >Oh now, this is cool! I'll have to keep an eye on this place now >that the DMRO depot in Philadelphia closed. I used to spend a lot of time at DRMO in Patuxent River. Instead of auctions they had two days a week where you could walk in and pay whatever cash price they had marked on stuff and take it with you. I got quite a lot of stuff that way 7-8 years ago, including Amiga's, Atari ST's, Osborne's and a NeXT. The NeXT was only a couple of years old and I paid all of $60 for it, all hardware present! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Mar 21 18:14:34 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 References: Message-ID: <3AB943EA.33BED59F@heathers.stdio.com> Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more room on top. Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for your snacks.... Billy D'Augustine wrote: > Wondering if anyone has posted the VAXBar to this list yet? > > > > > >I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a > > >scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if > > >I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and > > >metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. > > > > Very funny. At one point I was using my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 as a bedside > > table though..... From rdd at smart.net Wed Mar 21 18:41:34 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: <3AB943EA.33BED59F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more > room on top. Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for > your snacks.... Is this supposed to be a group about preserving or destroying classic computers? There are people on this list who want to obtain, use and preserve such equipment as those VAXen; we don't need idiots buying the remaining few, tearing their insides out and then using them as furniture -- that's even worse than sending the equipment off to a museum to rot away and never be used again. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Mar 21 18:38:35 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 21, 2001 06:22:53 pm" Message-ID: <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> > > That said, I may try to make it out for that one. There are a few > >RK07 drives in one lot as well...I love RK07s! :-) > > Makes me wish I had a place to store a bunch of DEC stuff if > I did happen to have the winning bid at this one. Lot #78 and #79 is > just full of it. And I live right across the street from Goddard! > Alas, too many computers, not enough space..... > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Too bad classicmp together couldn't bid for an entire lot. 11/44's, TU77's...hmmm. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 21 18:49:24 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard (Bill Pechter) References: <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <15033.19476.254729.301933@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 21, Bill Pechter wrote: > Too bad classicmp together couldn't bid for an entire lot. > 11/44's, TU77's...hmmm. That's an interesting idea. Form a club centered around the list, maintain an online bank account, take pre-auction votes on maximum bids for a particular lot, and have a person local to each relevant auction go on behalf of the group. -Dave McGuire From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Mar 21 20:10:32 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 References: Message-ID: <3AB95F18.E152124A@heathers.stdio.com> R.D. Take it easy. Its a joke. Sheesh... How about saving over 400 computers and the collection is still growing daily. Would you say I've done my share of saving life? Keep it light. Your signature says it all... Don't have a cow man..... Brian. "R. D. Davis" wrote: > On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > > Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more > > room on top. Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for > > your snacks.... > > Is this supposed to be a group about preserving or destroying classic > computers? There are people on this list who want to obtain, use and > preserve such equipment as those VAXen; we don't need idiots buying > the remaining few, tearing their insides out and then using them as > furniture -- that's even worse than sending the equipment off to a > museum to rot away and never be used again. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: > All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Mar 21 20:15:07 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard References: <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> <15033.19476.254729.301933@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AB9602B.D742D004@heathers.stdio.com> Dave, That could work for the salvage yards as well. I have a nice digital camera to take shots of this stuff here locally. The only problem is that the stuff gets recycled pretty darn quick. I try to save what I can but until I get my new building put up, I'm bursting at the seams. Brian. Dave McGuire wrote: > On March 21, Bill Pechter wrote: > > Too bad classicmp together couldn't bid for an entire lot. > > 11/44's, TU77's...hmmm. > > That's an interesting idea. Form a club centered around the list, > maintain an online bank account, take pre-auction votes on maximum > bids for a particular lot, and have a person local to each relevant > auction go on behalf of the group. > > -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Wed Mar 21 19:56:05 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: <3AB95F18.E152124A@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > Take it easy. Its a joke. Sheesh... That's what I realized 2 seconds after I sent the message... wow, talk about putting one's foot in one's mouth so to speak; hopfully that's not related to "foot in mouth disease" (yes, I know, they call it hoof and mouth disease over there, but I wonder, has it spread and mutated?). > How about saving over 400 computers and the collection is still growing > daily. Would you say I've done my share of saving life? Keep it light. Nice collection! What I'd really like to see is power available for you to have all 400 (or at least all that are working) powered up and running at the same time; that would be neat! > Your signature says it all... Don't have a cow man..... Yes, I need to follow my own advice. ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From jruschme at mac.com Wed Mar 21 20:52:09 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #547 In-Reply-To: <200103212242.QAA64531@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200103212242.QAA64531@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >From: Tom Owad >Subject: Re: VCF East > >>> I would ask for the New Jersey Expo Center in Raritan NJ to be considered. >>> It's right off the NJ Turnpike, the only road outsiders consider to >exist in >>> NJ anyways. >> >> Yeah, isn't that amazing? I grew up in NJ, and I go there from time >>to time. I rarely see NJ license plates on the Turnpike. Weird. >> >> I'd also like to see it happen somewhere toward the "middle" of the >>coast. While it's true that the southern states (at least NC, SC, and >>GA) are less densely populated than the Great New England Sprawl, >>there *is* life outside of Boston. >> >> If VCF East is reasonably accessible to the Washington DC area (and >>I'd say NJ counts) you can count on me and at least a half dozen of my >>friends to help out with all the setup stuff. And I'd plan to >>exhibit, as well. > >If its held in NJ/PA I could help out and exhibit, also. The Raritan >center is a nice location. Another NJ option might be the South Jersey Expo Center in Cherry Hill. It's about 30 minutes further south on the NJ Turnpike, but about as accessible (as well as being accessible to I295). Basically, it's over the river from Philadelphia as opposed to the Raritan Center which is basically over the river from NY. <<>> From at258 at osfn.org Wed Mar 21 20:59:11 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Is this supposed to be a group about preserving or destroying classic > computers? There are people on this list who want to obtain, use and > preserve such equipment as those VAXen; we don't need idiots buying > the remaining few, tearing their insides out and then using them as > furniture -- that's even worse than sending the equipment off to a > museum to rot away and never be used again. I left one Vax cabinet outside for "Piddles" my poodle to use as a dog house. I have another that I use for bulk spaghetti sauce storage. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Mar 21 21:25:03 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:21 2005 Subject: DEC RZ26L drive? In-Reply-To: <3AB8FC35.4D2A28B7@eoni.com> References: <3AB8CB8C.3A00278E@uk.thalesgroup.com> <15032.59137.325858.883404@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010321192428.02c09320@208.226.86.10> Look on the NetBSD/VAX hardware page. Its a 1.05GB drive, not too exciting but plenty-o-room for a full up VMS install... --Chuck At 11:08 AM 3/21/01 -0800, you wrote: >I've been offered a DEC RZ26L SCSI drive. Searching 'The Tech Page' >shows no entries for DEC drives. Does anyone know where I might find >the specs? > >TIA. > >Jim From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Mar 21 21:19:55 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: DEC RZ26L drive? In-Reply-To: <3AB8FC35.4D2A28B7@eoni.com> Message-ID: I nabbed this some time ago from DSNlink: RZ26L 3-1/2" x 1.0" height SCSI-2 disk drive Capacity ... 1.05 GB 3117 cylinders, 8 R/W heads, 59-119 sectors* peak xfer rate ........... 2.7-5.5 MB/s bus xfer rate ............ 10 MB/s average access time ...... 15.1 msec average seek time ........ 9.5 msec RPM ...................... 5400 buffer .................. 512 KB * Variable bit recording (banded recording) varies the number of sectors depending on track location. =============================================================================== -- From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Mar 21 21:55:28 2001 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Big Iron in Syracuse References: Message-ID: <3AB977B0.41A0C128@oxford.net> Some people have asked for a repost; here's a little more info. This equipment is located at Northeast Surplus, 440 Shonnard St. in Syracuse. Phone 315 677-5246 The people seemed quite willing to have visitors. They appear to deal with lots of PC's and LaserJet printers Preference is for skid lot sales of things. They seem a little frustrated with "retail sales" though its not a big shop. I have no idea of what they want for the mainframes. I saw a skid of large mostly fixed frequency monitors that they suggested $50 each (for 8). If anyone was interested, these could be split up among several buyers. I am about 4 hours away in Canada. Original message was: I'm not sure whether there's any value to you in this or not, but I saw a large set of big blue boxes at a wreckers last week. I didn't make a full inventory, but there were several boxes marked 3390. The whole system appeared to be there, in excellent cosmetic shape. Probably 10 or 12 cabinets approximately five feet high and 3' x 3' wide and deep each. I also saw some VAX 6000-650 items, DEC H9644, TU81, a Data General and some other DEC peripherals. These are all in Syracuse NY. regards, Dan C Will Jennings wrote: > Since everyone is talking about them, I'm going to ask that if anyone has > manuals for them, or 3880 controllers, or a 4381 model group 21, that I > could really really use them... And if anyone finds a 3380, 3880, or 4381 in > a scrapyard or something, I need a full set of panels for each machine, i.e. > 3 sets of panels total, I cannot run the system without the panels in place. > I also need other miscellanous parts, such as hinges, etc. > > TIA, > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Mar 21 23:05:49 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: DEC RZ26L drive? References: Message-ID: <3AB98827.B075136F@eoni.com> Thanks Paul. That was *exactly* what I was looking for. Jim From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Mar 21 23:09:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard (Brian Roth) References: <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> <15033.19476.254729.301933@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AB9602B.D742D004@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <15033.35062.165750.291814@phaduka.neurotica.com> I'm pretty much full here too...but there are some surplus facilities nearby that aren't really open to the public, but that I have access to. Lots of larger DEC stuff (a lot of VAX6000s) shows up there. Maybe we should set up such a thing. There would be a number of things to arrange to keep things running smoothly, but I think it could be done. -Dave McGuire On March 21, Brian Roth wrote: > Dave, > > That could work for the salvage yards as well. I have a nice digital > camera to take shots of this stuff here locally. The only problem is > that the stuff gets recycled pretty darn quick. I try to save what I can > but until I get my new building put up, I'm bursting at the seams. > > Brian. > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On March 21, Bill Pechter wrote: > > > Too bad classicmp together couldn't bid for an entire lot. > > > 11/44's, TU77's...hmmm. > > > > That's an interesting idea. Form a club centered around the list, > > maintain an online bank account, take pre-auction votes on maximum > > bids for a particular lot, and have a person local to each relevant > > auction go on behalf of the group. > > > > -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Wed Mar 21 23:40:57 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: <15033.35062.165750.291814@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm pretty much full here too...but there are some surplus > facilities nearby that aren't really open to the public, but that I > have access to. Lots of larger DEC stuff (a lot of VAX6000s) shows up > there. Do 11/730s ever show up? Are PDP-11/44s frequent finds? I need to locate a CPU board set and a backplane extension for mine. Speaking of backplanes. I recall reading that wire-wrapping forms a very tight bond, but I'm wondering: how reliable can one expect a wire-wrapped backplane to be that's been sitting outdoors, exposed, for several years? Also, has anyone had a go at having rusty computer chasis parts "hot dipped" like they do engine blocks sent to a machine shop? > Maybe we should set up such a thing. There would be a number of > things to arrange to keep things running smoothly, but I think it > could be done. Excellent idea! What can I do to help? This reminds me; I should get back to taking drives around industrial and office parks on weekends. Has anyone had much luck at this? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 22 00:31:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <20010321172606.79724.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <10103210852.ZM917@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >Is there currently a source for the tap part for the older, boxy transceivers >that have removable media bits? I remember reading in the O'Reilly Ethernet >book that it was common to remove the transceiver from the tap and leave the Most likely I have it, no matter what that "it" is regarding older network stuff. Email me directly with, hopefully, an idea of what exactly you need and I will look in my boxes. What I think they are talking about with the tap etc. is that you have the thick coax, then you have a thing that taps into the coax, and that "thing" typically has a AUI 15 pin connection with a cable to the AUI on your computer. Disconnecting the cable is what I think they mean. From spc at conman.org Thu Mar 22 02:07:07 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Mar 21, 2001 01:13:03 PM Message-ID: <200103220807.DAA29325@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bill Sudbrink once stated: > > > I've been to several of these. While otherwise wonderful, these > > auctions have classic "government auction" problems. You'll see, for > > example, a lot consisting of three pallets of stuff...one will contain > > a Dynabyte or something like that with ZERO cash value but that you'd > > really love to get, and the rest of it will consist of 2.5 pallets of > > dead VGA monitors. During the auction you'll find some guy who bids > > the lot up to $3,000. Wondering why, you watch him loading it into > > his truck at the end of the day...and underneath the dead VGA monitors > > will be one HP 8566B spectrum analyzer or something like that, that he > > will have ALREADY SOLD on his cell phone for $20,000. > > In your expirence, and using the above example, could you approach the guy > and make an offer for the Dynabyte or will he get pissy or greedy? In my experience (auction at a university, lost some cool HPs and monitors to a pair of guys like this) they'll probabably say no right there, call us back later once we've had time to inventory the stuff (and the cynical side of me would like to add: and set a price to gouge you since you've actually shown an interest). -spc (Never could get a hold of them ... ) From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Mar 22 02:34:24 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <200012152053.MAA10464@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 15, 2000 12:53:48 PM Message-ID: <200103220834.AAA01244@eskimo.com> > VIC-II and SID are perpetually problematic, especially SID since it's part > analogue (and probably so is VIC, for that matter). The timings are well known > but the interactions between registers are sometimes unpredictable (but rest > assured out there is a game that depends on that particular interaction). > Emulator writers have torn their hair out for years thanks to Commodore's > loose hardware design philosophy. > > You would need a very large and complex FPGA to fully emulate the range of > behaviours these remarkable (and bizarre) chips demonstrate. Hmm, analogue. I hadn't thought of that. But I thought the chips had been pretty well reverse-engineered by now. Does anyone know of gate-level (or similar) diagrams for the chips? We now have the gate-level diagrams for the Atari custom chips, thanks to Curt Vendel, so this is the chance for you Commodore fans to prove your inherent superiority! :) -- Derek From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Mar 22 02:53:49 2001 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Request for suggestions that would be OT if not for the fact that it is VCF related ") In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AB9CBAD.25774.E8AC461@localhost> > It took me a while to enter about 70+ lat. & lon. points but I did it and > have come up with a result. It looks like the optimal spot for the > Festival is definitely in the Rhodes Island area. > I'll put together the data and present it tomorrow. Wait ... please add my coordinates: 48 Deg. 7' 57" North, 11 Deg. 37' 52" East I'd love to see a VCF-East about one mile below sea level ... or on board a fancy cruise ship ... wouldn't this be nice ? SCNR - make it not to far from JFK. Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 22 06:20:07 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard References: <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> <15033.19476.254729.301933@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AB9602B.D742D004@heathers.stdio.com> <15033.35062.165750.291814@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AB9EDF7.96318254@heathers.stdio.com> Dave, There are a couple of places here in WNY that get a fair amount of equipment on a weekly basis. Mostly PC's but every once in a while a mini or mainframe. I'm good friends with one of them and he will save anything for me for a little while. He is running out of room himself. I saved an 11/750 a couple of weeks ago for .03 a pound. Brian. Dave McGuire wrote: > I'm pretty much full here too...but there are some surplus > facilities nearby that aren't really open to the public, but that I > have access to. Lots of larger DEC stuff (a lot of VAX6000s) shows up > there. > > Maybe we should set up such a thing. There would be a number of > things to arrange to keep things running smoothly, but I think it > could be done. > > -Dave McGuire > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 22 06:32:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: <200103220807.DAA29325@conman.org> References: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Mar 21, 2001 01:13:03 PM Message-ID: >> In your expirence, and using the above example, could you approach the guy >> and make an offer for the Dynabyte or will he get pissy or greedy? > > In my experience (auction at a university, lost some cool HPs and monitors >to a pair of guys like this) they'll probabably say no right there, call us >back later once we've had time to inventory the stuff (and the cynical side >of me would like to add: and set a price to gouge you since you've actually >shown an interest). Same is what I find typical, if you can't cut a deal on the spot, expect to pay retail later. Best time to cut a deal, before the bidding. Then immediately after the auction, or sometimes waiting until pickup day when the guy decides it all isn't going to fit in the rental truck, but you risk missing the deal the longer you wait. Leaving a card for a call back is the worst, UNLESS you can cut some long term deal with a person who REALLY has no interest in the junk you want. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 22 06:23:09 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: <15033.19476.254729.301933@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard (Bill Pechter) <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >On March 21, Bill Pechter wrote: >> Too bad classicmp together couldn't bid for an entire lot. >> 11/44's, TU77's...hmmm. > > That's an interesting idea. Form a club centered around the list, >maintain an online bank account, take pre-auction votes on maximum >bids for a particular lot, and have a person local to each relevant >auction go on behalf of the group. What could make a club work is some cheap dock height storage, buying the stuff is nothing compared to storing until it could be divvied up. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 08:01:04 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010322140104.4847.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >Is there currently a source for the tap part for the older, boxy > transceivers that have removable media bits? > What I think they are talking about with the tap etc. is that you have the > thick coax, then you have a thing that taps into the coax, and that "thing" > typically has a AUI 15 pin connection with a cable to the AUI on your > computer. Disconnecting the cable is what I think they mean. Certainly that is one interpretation. I would quote the page if I have it in front of me. My impression is that the electronics were detachable from the plastic and metal part that was the actual tap. The boxes I have do allow separating the media portion from the box portion with two screws. I will see about pictures when I can next get to the device (Monday, at the earliest). Since you do have a collection of older network hardware, I will conclude that what I initially described, if it did exist in that form, was not common, or it would have seemed familiar to you. I'll try a better description when I can point at what I'm trying to describe. Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 08:06:06 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: <3AB943EA.33BED59F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010322140606.8063.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Roth wrote: > Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more room on > top. > Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for your snacks.... Cute package, the 11/725. I used to have one (got it right when DEC interdicted VMS license transfers for one month to attempt to force buyers of used hardware to purchase new licenses... failed miserably). It was on loan to a friend's company that was bought out and moved without notifing me that they were taking my VAX out of state. :-( I even had the floating point accelerator in it. At the time, it was my best number cruncher (14 years ago). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Derek.Overton at sanderson.co.uk Thu Mar 22 08:27:00 2001 From: Derek.Overton at sanderson.co.uk (Derek Overton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: IBM 6150 Message-ID: <31A85E83563BD211842F0004AC3A0E78E5921E@SCLSHEPDC> Has anyone experience of getting data off a 6150 using a SCT drive and loading onto Mvbase running on NT ? Derek From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 22 02:44:44 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "Re: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems)" (Mar 21, 22:31) References: <10103210852.ZM917@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10103220844.ZM1692@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 21, 22:31, Mike Ford wrote: > >Is there currently a source for the tap part for the older, boxy transceivers > >that have removable media bits? I remember reading in the O'Reilly Ethernet > >book that it was common to remove the transceiver from the tap and leave the > > Most likely I have it, no matter what that "it" is regarding older network > stuff. Email me directly with, hopefully, an idea of what exactly you need > and I will look in my boxes. > > What I think they are talking about with the tap etc. is that you have the > thick coax, then you have a thing that taps into the coax, and that "thing" > typically has a AUI 15 pin connection with a cable to the AUI on your > computer. Disconnecting the cable is what I think they mean. Not quite. The part with the 15-pin AUI connector is the trasnceiver. The tap is the part of the transceiver that fits to the coax. In some cases, the tap has sockets, and you fit it by cutting the coax, fitting plugs to both cut ends, and plugging them in to the tap. Thats' not very convenient when you want to connect to a network that's in use (the entire segment will be ou of action while you do it and there's a risk of damage to other transceivers as well), so tha alternative is a "vampire" tap. That's a gadget that you fit by drilling a hole in the outer insulation and braid (screen) of the coax, then applying the tap. It has a pn that penetrates to the core conductor, and a part that makes contact only with the braid. Then you fit the rest of the transceiver onto the vampire tap, and fit a drop cable between the AUI connector on the transceiver and the AUI on your machine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 22 02:46:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: NeXT '040 Cubes" (Mar 21, 21:22) References: Message-ID: <10103220846.ZM1698@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 21, 21:22, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Mar 21, 10:07, MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > > > > << First, put a 50-ohm terminator on that connector, so the NeXT thinks > > it is connected to a live (but very small!) network. >> > > > > > > Is this something I can pick up at say Radio Shack? Does it looks kind of > > like a little metal cap that fits on the coaxial connector? > > Wait a second. Standard ethernet has a 50 Ohm terminator at each end of > the cable. so the DC resistance between the core and the shield is 25 ohms. Yes, but the standard method of terminating a single (isolated) point is to use ONE terminator (maybe not for Vaxstations :-)). > According to all the notes I have on how ethernet transceivers really > work, the transmitter is a current source, which develops a voltage > across this impedance. The receiver is a voltage sensor. If 2 > transmitters send at the same time you get a greater-than-normal voltage > on the cable, which is what is detected as a collision. > But of course, _1_ transmitter will develop twice the voltage across 50 > ohms as across 25 ohms. Which means having 1 terminator on the network > (however short -- even just on the network connector) will generate > 'collisions' all the time I've not looked that closely at the internal circuitry of a transceiver, but I can assure you that that's NOT what happens with any transceiver I've tried. Having no terminator at all does indeed make many transceivers believe there are constant collisions, but I've always found one to be enough to prevent that, providing it's directly on the transceiver. The official method for SGIs is to put a microtransceiver with a single terminator on the AUI connector. > You should use a non-inductive resistor here. Some cheap ready-made > terminators are anything but... Yes, and it should also be around 1/2 - 1 watt. Many terminators use 1/4 watt and get away with it, but the nominal voltage is 10V (and hence from P=V^2/R, and allowing a 50% duty cycle, you want 1W). > > types: those with a characteristic impedance of 50 ohms, used for test > > equipment, thin Ethernet, etc; and those with a characteristic impedance of > > 75 ohms, mostly used for TV and video signals). > > IIRC, the central pin is of slightly different diameters (IIRC the 75 ohm > one is thinner). If you put the thin-pinned type of plug onto the other > type of socket, it won't always make good contact. If you do the reverse > you can damage the socket contact. > > And of course putting mixed connectors together will cause a (small) > mismatch which can be a bad thing. Yes, they are different, and I *think* that's the right way round :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Mar 22 08:41:00 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: <3AB943EA.33BED59F@heathers.stdio.com> References: <3AB943EA.33BED59F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: My TV sits on an old IBM 3274 control unit. Makes a wonderful TV stand! -Bob >Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more >room on top. >Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for your snacks.... > >Billy D'Augustine wrote: > > > Wondering if anyone has posted the VAXBar to this list yet? > > > > > > > > >I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at work with a > > > >scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I figure that if > > > >I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of plastic and > > > >metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. > > > > > > Very funny. At one point I was using my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 >as a bedside > > > table though..... bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Thu Mar 22 08:45:46 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: Ethan, Its one of my favorites. Still looking for the RC25 to fill the hole though. The console tape drives need to be repaired so it no longer boots. I remember hearing that someone either tried, or successfully used a PC with a term program to send over the bootstrap loader. Brian Cute package, the 11/725. I used to have one (got it right when DEC interdicted VMS license transfers for one month to attempt to force buyers of used hardware to purchase new licenses... failed miserably). It was on loan to a friend's company that was bought out and moved without notifing me that they were taking my VAX out of state. :-( I even had the floating point accelerator in it. At the time, it was my best number cruncher (14 years ago). -ethan Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 22 09:03:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <200103220834.AAA01244@eskimo.com> from Derek Peschel at "Mar 22, 1 00:34:24 am" Message-ID: <200103221503.HAA09508@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > You would need a very large and complex FPGA to fully emulate the range of > > behaviours these remarkable (and bizarre) chips demonstrate. > > Hmm, analogue. I hadn't thought of that. But I thought the chips had been > pretty well reverse-engineered by now. > > Does anyone know of gate-level (or similar) diagrams for the chips? We now > have the gate-level diagrams for the Atari custom chips, thanks to Curt > Vendel, so this is the chance for you Commodore fans to prove your inherent > superiority! :) Proof of our inherent superiority is patently redundant. ;-P I don't think there are any out there -- Commodore guarded them jealously back in the day since they owned CSG, and when CSG was disbanded and sold, the patents and chip designs were *not* sold with it. If anyone knows where they are, it's presumably some legal drone at Gateway. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. -- Gen. O. N. Bradley From jss at ou.edu Thu Mar 22 09:22:01 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) References: "Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard" <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000b01c0b2e3$d81c0850$0a01a8c0@station1> > That's an interesting idea. Form a club centered around the list, > maintain an online bank account, take pre-auction votes on maximum > bids for a particular lot, and have a person local to each relevant > auction go on behalf of the group. I would definitely give money for this, as long as there was some return on my investment, as I have neither the experience nor the geographical advantage to acquire things as successfully as others on the list. Keeping track of the finances would be tricky. Someone will have to manage the money, and they will be met with varying amounts of distrust by those who would donate. Maybe a good thing would be to either form a nonprofit or get one to assimilate us. And it would need a cool name. :-) Thoughts? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Thu Mar 22 09:26:10 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 Message-ID: Heck... If it weren't for all these HP minis, I'd have no furniture at all. Steve >From: Bob Brown >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:41:00 -0600 > >My TV sits on an old IBM 3274 control unit. > >Makes a wonderful TV stand! > >-Bob > > >>Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more >>room on top. >>Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for your snacks.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 22 09:37:24 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had a temporary sheling unit made of 1x12's and PS/2 model 55sx units, much like the cinder block shelves that we've all had when we were just starting out in our own apartments. Mine was to accomodate books and unit storage int he same space while working on getting a buyer for the machines. Now the machines are gone and the books are in a shelving unit made of cinder block and he 1x12's...go figure. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bob Brown => Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:41 AM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: Re: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 => => => My TV sits on an old IBM 3274 control unit. => => Makes a wonderful TV stand! => => -Bob => => => >Don't rule out the VAX 11/725. A nice end table with a little more => >room on top. => >Remove the RC25 and you have a nice storage area for your snacks.... => > => >Billy D'Augustine wrote: => > => > > Wondering if anyone has posted the VAXBar to this list yet? => > > => > > > => > > > >I've just found a VAX 4000-500 sitting out in the rain at => work with a => > > > >scrap note attached, so I've relocated it to my house. I => figure that if => > > > >I carefully dry it out and remove all those funny bits of => plastic and => > > > >metal from inside, it'll make a lovely bedside cabinet. Heh heh. => > > > => > > > Very funny. At one point I was using my PDP-11/73 in a BA123 => >as a bedside => > > > table though..... => => bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR => Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator => Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace => From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 22 10:10:34 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) Message-ID: I seem to remember crawling through the interstitial floors in the University of Kansas Medical center dragging 500 feet of yellow cable between our VAX and a Siemens MR scanner. I may have some pieces of the cable and a vampire tap or two if I can find them. I'll bet the original cable is still there just unused. We never removed old cable just left it in place. We did have to make it look like the "official" network cables or the hospital wondered who had been in the interstitial spaces. It's kind of hard to tap a cable while holding a flashlight in your mouth and trying not to fall into any of the patient examining rooms below you. I also have some of the cabletron boxes with a heartbeat that we used to convert thin coax to RJ45 or Thicknet to RJ45, in fact there is one is use across the hall from me connecting the GE CT scanner to a 3D workstation. I see them ocasionally at my local computer surplus, the PC guys want to throw them away because they don't recognize them. Allied Telesyn CentreCom MX10 IEEE802.3 microtransciever 10 base 2 (mau) Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Mar 22 10:15:59 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: RZ26L drive Message-ID: >From http://www.alyon.org/InfosTechniques/informatique/drives/digital/all/9312060 02.html RZ26L High Performance, Low Profile 1.05 GB Disk Drive HIGHLIGHTS o New SCSI disk offered in one-inch-high, 3.5 inch form factor o 15 percent price/performance improvement over RZ26 disk o Features new, five year warranty PRODUCT DESCRIPTION To meet the need for follow-on products in the same capacity range as Digital's RZ26 and RZ26B 1.05 Gbyte disk drives, Digital is introducing the RZ26L drive. This one-inch-high, low profile SCSI disk expands the performance and price/megabyte curves of the previous generation of Digital 3.5 inch disks. In addition, its state-of-the-art seek and access times and industry standard spindle speed make it Digital's highest performing 3.5 inch SCSI disk today. The banding technology used provides maximum transfer rates (in the 3.5 inch form factor) of up to 5.5 Mbytes per second. The RZ26L disk comes with a five year warranty (one year of onsite warranty and four years of extended, Return-to-Digital warranty), demonstrating Digital's higher quality standards and enhanced maintainability standards. (See the "Enhanced Storage Warranties Span Up to Five Years" article in this issue.) Note that the RZ26L drive is not a direct substitute for the RZ26 drive in all applications. The RZ26L drive cannot be placed in an existing RZ26 stripe and/or shadow set. However, a new stripe and/or shadow set can be created when all members are RZ26L disk drives. COMPARISON WITH DIGITAL'S OTHER 3.5 INCH DISK DRIVES RZ25L RZ26 RZ26L RZ28 Capacity (MBF) 535 1050 1050 2100 $/MB $1.89 $1.23 $1.05 $1.16 Height 1" 1.6" 1" 1.6" Average Seek Time (ms) 10.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 Average Access Time (ms) 16 15.1 15.1 15.1 RPM 5400 5400 5400 5400 Servo Type Ded Emb Emb Emb Maximum Transfer Rates from Media (Mbytes/sec) 2.9-5.2 3.3 2.7-5.5 2.7-5.5 Maximum Bus Bandwidth (MB) 10 10 10 10 Buffer Size (KB) 240 512 512 1024 AVAILABILITY AND ORDERING You can order the RZ26L drive today, with availability in 30 days or less. Order No. Description RZ26L Disk Drive: RZ26L-EJ 1.05 GB formatted SCSI disk for DEC 3000 Model 400, 400S, 500, 500S, 500X, 600, 600S, 800, and 800S systems; includes mounting hardware; factory or field installed RZ26L-EP 1.05 GB formatted SCSI disk for DEC 3000 Model 300 and 300L systems; includes mounting hardware; factory or field installed RZ26L-EK/EN 1.05 GB formatted SCSI disk for MicroVAX 3100 Model 30, 40, 80, and 90 systems; includes mounting hardware; field installed/factory installed RZ26L-VA 1.05 GB 3.5 inch disk for StorageWorks systems, mounted in single 3.5 inch storage building block with snap-in carrier (RZ26L-VA currently supported in BA350 and BA353 StorageWorks shelves on HSJ40 and HSC K.SCSI controllers, MicroVAX 3100, DEC 3000, DEC 7000, and DEC 10000 systems) 4A-RZ26L-VA Spare for all variations of RZ26L disk drive SOFTWARE SUPPORT The RZ26L drive is supported in OpenVMS VAX V6.0 and OpenVMS AXP V1.5. FUTURE SUPPORT Support for the RZ26L disk is planned for the VAXstation 4000 Models 60 and 90, for DEC 2000 AXP workstations, and for DEC 4000 AXP systems. Future software support is planned for the ULTRIX V4.4 and DEC OSF/1 V1.3 operating systems. SERVICES Digital is supporting the RZ26L drive with a complete range of services, including (but not limited to) onsite hardware service, telephone assistance, installation, and extended warranty programs. DECmailer unit exchange is available through the Customer Returns Center (800-225-5385). __________ OSF/1 is a registered trademark of the Open Software Foundation, Inc. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Mar 22 10:04:30 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) References: "Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard" <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> <000b01c0b2e3$d81c0850$0a01a8c0@station1> Message-ID: <00a801c0b2e9$c76e69c0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" To: "ClassicCmp Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 8:22 AM Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) > Keeping track of the finances would be tricky. Someone will have to manage > the money, and they will be met with varying amounts of distrust by those > who would donate. Maybe a good thing would be to either form a nonprofit or > get one to assimilate us. > > And it would need a cool name. :-) > > Thoughts? > How about Computer Rescue And Preservation? I've already got the trademark - my sister is always complaining "What's all this C.R.A.P. in the garage? On top of all the C.R.A.P. in the basement, there's no room for anything else in the house ..." Clearly, she's got to go. : v ) But I like the idea of the club. It's too bad that my Canuck bucks will only buy me 63% of a Yankee membership. Cheers, Mark. From kebabthesheep at yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 10:37:23 2001 From: kebabthesheep at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #545 In-Reply-To: <200103192140.PAA23713@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010322163723.48559.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> > Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:45:19 -0500 (EST) > From: "R. D. Davis" > Subject: Sun VME bus boards (was: This is CLASSIC COMPUTERS) > Sorry... I've been hacking some database stuff and Perl all weekend > and I guess it obfuscated my mind a little. > > Speaking of classic computers, is anyone here interested in purchasing > some Sun VME-bus boards? I've got a bunch of them that I'm trying to > sell for someone, and I'd like to free up some of the space that > they're taking up... lots of CG3 boards, various CPUs, etc. While I'd > like to just give these away, I agreed to pay $x dollars apiece for > each one sold or transferred to someone else, so I'd like to at least > cut my loss (as I'll be taking a loss). The agreement that I made also > means that I need to find good homes for them, so I'll only sell them > to those who are truly intereted in using them. I'd certainly be interested in a couple of VME cg3s :) Have you had chance to make a list of what other boards you have? Have you posted/are you going to post this over to sunrescue? (rescue@sunhelp.org) you'll get a lot more takers from them :) > But wait, that's not all, I'll provide a chance for a FREE *BONUS* to > all who purchase these; that's right, I'm giving away something for > absolutely nothing! Free arachnids! Disclaimer: Quantity of > arachnids per board may vary; some boards may contain no arachnids; > purchasers responsible for all consequences. ;-) > I take it the arachnids have taken up residence? Dave. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 22 11:16:44 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: from "McFadden, Mike" at "Mar 22, 1 10:10:34 am" Message-ID: <200103221716.JAA11710@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Allied Telesyn CentreCom MX10 IEEE802.3 microtransciever 10 base 2 (mau) Yep, this is what I have plugged into my Solbourne's AUI to connect it into the apartment Ethernet. Good box, cheap, frequently thrown away so plentiful in dumpsters and scrap. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's bad luck to be suspicious. -- Andrew W. Mathis ------------------------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 22 12:31:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Mar 22, 1 00:40:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 770 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010322/c9b51bc6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 22 12:37:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Lovely period furniture: VAX 4000-500 In-Reply-To: from "Steve Robertson" at Mar 22, 1 10:26:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 149 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010322/e529af8a/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Mar 22 12:51:32 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010322102425.023f06f0@pc> I've made contact with a guy who's scanned 20,046 pages of the docs listed below, at 300 to 400 DPI. He first told me about the UCSD p-System docs he'd scanned. Below the list is his description of the process he followed. I'm planning to get a copy of what he has and burn it to CD-R. Does anyone else have an interest in these docs, or have any ideas about distribution without massive copyright violation? - John 6502 MOS 6502 datasheet 6502 Assembly Language Subroutines (Leventhal) AMD AMD 29000 Memory Design Handbook Am29027 Arithmetic Accelerator Am29C327 Floating Point Processor Data General C Language Reference Manual GATE User's Manual AOS/VS Internals Manual AOS/VS Programmer's Manual, volume 1 AOS/VS System Calls Dictionary CEO User's Manual Eclipse 32-bit Principles of Operation Eclipse 32-bit System Functional Characteristics Fortran-77 Environment Manual Fortran-77 Reference Manual Fairchild Clipper User's Manual IDT RISC System Programmer's Guide R3000 Assembly Language Programmer's Guide R3000 Hardware User Manuals R3000 Language Programmer's Guide High-speed CMOS databook Motorola 68000 Family Reference 68020 User's Manual 68851 User's Manual 88100 User's Manual 88200 User's Manual Linear Interface Integrated Circuits NCR 53C90A/B Advanced SCSI Controller (2 different manuals) 53C94/5/6 databook 53CF94/96-2 Fast SCSI Controller Disk Array Controller Firmware Disk Array Controller Hardware Disk Array Controller Software Floppy Disk Controller (SCSI-to-FD) National Semiconductor NS32532 Datasheet Series 32000 Programmer's Reference Manual DP8490 Enhanced Asynchronous SCSI Interface NS32CG16 Programmer's Reference Supplement Graphics Handbook Series 32000 Databook DRAM Management databook Embedded Controller Databook Ohio Scientific C4P User's Manual (2 different manuals) 65V Programmer's manual Schematics for: 502 CPU board 505 CPU board 527 24K memory board 540 Video board 542 Polled Keyboard Pinnacle Systems 2 User's manuals for their 68k machine (My P-system machine) P-system manuals IV.12 Operating System Reference Program Development Reference Application Development Guide Fortran 77 Reference Assembler Reference Weitek WTL4167 Floating-Point Coprocessor datasheet Most of these are from about 1988 to 1992, with the exception of the OSI documentation, of course, which is from 1979. --- > What sort of process did you follow? What sort of devices? As far as the process, I scanned a manual in and checked to make sure all the pages were there. If they weren't, I'd scan the pages that didn't make it, and go through all the pages again. I'll admit this is a little anal, but better safe than sorry. (When you're using a lot of shell scripts, you never know if you accidently deleted a page with an "mv" command.) When all the pages where there, I'd go through the manual one more time to check for general quality (no folded corners, no torn pages, etc.) If all was good, the manual would be moved to the directory that would be the root directory of my CD-ROM. That's pretty much it. The big manuals of more than 1000 pages really sucked, because I'd generally have to make 3 or more passes to get those completely correct. If I was going to do it again, I'd probably break the larger manuals into smaller chunks to avoid this problem. One thing that made the whole process a lot easier was the netpbm utilities. I wrote a script to convert the manuals from ~2500x3300 TIFs to ~500x600 GIFs. My machine takes about 2 seconds to process a 300-400 DPI TIF, but only a fraction of a second for a 75 DPI GIF. I'd run my script, then do something else for a while. When it was done, I could flip through the GIFs with GQview and inspect about 2-4 pages per second. That saved a lot of time. I assume that, by "devices", you mean what type of scanners I used. I started with an HP 6350cse (with ADF) that I bought for this very purpose. However, having never owned a scanner before, I was a little disappointed with how slow the "fast" scanners are. Fortunately, imaging is an integral part of the software my company sells and, as luck would have it, we were demoing a new scanner from Fujitsu. This thing literally does 60 pages/min at 300 dpi - *both* sides. It's about half that fast at 400 dpi, which I had to use for the IC databooks to get the fine print. Needless to say, I did most of my scanning on that. By the way, to date, I've processed 20046 pages. I'm kinda burned out, though, so it'll be a while before I do any more. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 22 12:44:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: NeXT '040 Cubes In-Reply-To: <10103220846.ZM1698@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 22, 1 08:46:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2079 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010322/a302254a/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 22 13:33:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <20010322140104.4847.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >Certainly that is one interpretation. I would quote the page if I have it >in front of me. My impression is that the electronics were detachable from >the plastic and metal part that was the actual tap. The boxes I have do >allow separating the media portion from the box portion with two screws. I >will see about pictures when I can next get to the device (Monday, at the >earliest). > >Since you do have a collection of older network hardware, I will conclude >that what I initially described, if it did exist in that form, was not >common, or it would have seemed familiar to you. Aaaack, and phoo. I just dug out three of them, wrote a nice bit, and had a computer crash. Short answer is that I have three boxes now sitting on my desk; digital DESTA, 3Com, and Cabletron, and they use a interchangible TAP that fits in the top of the unit. I have three kinds of TAP between them, a single BNC, a BNC T, and a N T. The TAP fits into the top of the unit making contact via 3 long pins that fit into a board edge header, and get secured via 2 screws through the front of the base unit. Leaving the TAP bottom open with the pins just sticking out doesn't sound very reasonable, but who am I to say it isn't. Maybe there is some kind of TAP cover for when the base removed? All three boxes have a AUI on the side. The digital and 3com a single LED, and the Cabletron a LanView set of 5 pwr, sqe, xmit, rcv, cln. Yes mine also say 802.3 My guess is that other variations exist, ie a vampire tap, that would be compatible with the lower units. From greg at ciswired.com Thu Mar 22 13:37:26 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Looking for some common switch settings... Message-ID: Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on them. I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 22 13:47:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Mar 22, 1 11:33:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010322/c5a9da7f/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 22 10:16:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) Message-ID: <01Mar22.173811est.119176@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Keeping track of the finances would be tricky. Someone will have to manage >the money, and they will be met with varying amounts of distrust by those >who would donate. Maybe a good thing would be to either form a nonprofit or >get one to assimilate us. >And it would need a cool name. :-) >Thoughts? Not only keeping track of the finances, but what about actual ownership? I like the club idea but I can just see someone down the road trying to sue the club for ownership of a particular piece in the case of a dispute. No doubt there are a lot of legal aspects that would have to be worked out to protect everyone involved. Then there's the logistics if the club does have a single repository for storage of the equipment. I'd certainly be interested in being part of it though. All of us together could certainly make a bigger impact than singularly. Jeff From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Mar 22 16:56:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010322225655.45092.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- brian roth wrote: > Ethan, > > Its one of my favorites. Still looking for the RC25 to fill the hole > though. I only ever had my hands on the one in my old VAX. They were available standalone, but pricey. > The console tape drives need to be repaired so it no longer boots. What's the problem? Rollers turn to goo? Electronic failure? > I remember hearing that someone either tried, or successfully used a PC with > a term program to send over the bootstrap loader. There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee. I've seen it and I've always wanted to put one together, perhaps with a floppy drive so it would be possible to still swap media, after a fashion. With the things I've been playing with in the modern hardware arena, I've also contemplated taking the emulator and sticking a modern CPU in one of these encyclopedia-sized cases I have and adding a text LCD display on the front and a couple of buttons (though the joystick port) and building up a virtual tape library. The ultimate incarnation would be able to hang a _real_ TU-58 off of it and be able to read and write _real_ tapes as well as act as a cache/jukebox. In that form, it would make a nice standalone backup device for DECtapeII. Got a drive I can borrow in a VT103, got hardware, got the RSP spec (Radial Serial Protocol), got tapes. Don't got time. :-( It's been on my fantasy project list for ten years and has managed to only move _down_ the priority list since then. Maybe when I dig that 11/730 out of the storage locker... -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Thu Mar 22 17:33:48 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal Message-ID: <025001c0b328$8d7cbd40$e1c2d63f@headleys> I have a Vaxserver 3100 and a few vt340 available. Can they be used together and if so how? thanks for your consideration Headley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010322/c9c68042/attachment.html From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Mar 22 17:55:24 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal In-Reply-To: <025001c0b328$8d7cbd40$e1c2d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> You connect the VT340 into the VAXServer 3100 console port and/or second serial port. Turn them on and login. The nice thing about the VT340 is that it has two MMJ ports and port 0 also has an RS232 output. --Chuck At 06:33 PM 3/22/01 -0500, you wrote: >I have a Vaxserver 3100 and a few vt340 available. Can they be used >together and if so how? >thanks for your consideration > >Headley From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 22 18:46:23 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 References: <20010322225655.45092.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3ABA9CDF.2332BDBB@heathers.stdio.com> Ethan, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- brian roth wrote: > > Ethan, > > > > Its one of my favorites. Still looking for the RC25 to fill the hole > > though. > > I only ever had my hands on the one in my old VAX. They were available > standalone, but pricey. > > > The console tape drives need to be repaired so it no longer boots. > > What's the problem? Rollers turn to goo? Electronic failure? Major Goo... > > > > I remember hearing that someone either tried, or successfully used a PC with > > a term program to send over the bootstrap loader. > > There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee. I've seen it and I've always > wanted to put one together, perhaps with a floppy drive so it would be possible > to still swap media, after a fashion. With the things I've been playing with > in the modern hardware arena, I've also contemplated taking the emulator and > sticking a modern CPU in one of these encyclopedia-sized cases I have and > adding a text LCD display on the front and a couple of buttons (though the > joystick port) and building up a virtual tape library. The ultimate > incarnation would be able to hang a _real_ TU-58 off of it and be able to read > and write _real_ tapes as well as act as a cache/jukebox. In that form, it > would make a nice standalone backup device for DECtapeII. > > Got a drive I can borrow in a VT103, got hardware, got the RSP spec (Radial > Serial Protocol), got tapes. Don't got time. :-( It's been on my fantasy > project list for ten years and has managed to only move _down_ the priority > list since then. Maybe when I dig that 11/730 out of the storage locker... Sounds like a very cool project. I have been wanting to toy with interfacing an LCD display with a cheapie PC to use as a MP3 player in my car. The Winamp parallel port <>LCD connection seems to becoming a bit of a standard of sorts. I even have an LRP package for interfacing an LCD to my router so you can watch the IP traffic. Way cool project BUT the display is still in the bubble wrap. Same problem, little time. Brian. > > > -ethan > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 22 18:55:02 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) References: <01Mar22.173811est.119176@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3ABA9EE6.D86E30EA@heathers.stdio.com> I'm in as well. I think the logistics and legalities could be worked out. I have space on my Web server I would more than glad to donate for the project. I also will be building a very large storage building this summer solely for my computers. There will be plenty of space to park workstations to mainframes. I live in the Niagara Falls NY area. Two hours to Toronto, Two hours to Syracuse. Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Keeping track of the finances would be tricky. Someone will have to manage > >the money, and they will be met with varying amounts of distrust by those > >who would donate. Maybe a good thing would be to either form a nonprofit or > >get one to assimilate us. > >And it would need a cool name. :-) > >Thoughts? > > Not only keeping track of the finances, but what about actual ownership? > I like the club idea but I can just see someone down the road trying to sue > the club for ownership of a particular piece in the case of a dispute. No > doubt there are a lot of legal aspects that would have to be worked out to > protect everyone involved. Then there's the logistics if the club does have > a single repository for storage of the equipment. > > I'd certainly be interested in being part of it though. All of us > together could certainly make a bigger impact than singularly. > > Jeff From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 22 18:21:18 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems Message-ID: <10103230021.ZM2147@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 21, 18:48, Tony Duell wrote: > > You can get > > N-to-BNC adaptors and BNC terminators for pennies. > > Can you? Where? The last N-BNC adaptors I bought were several pounds > each... And the cheapest (decent) BNC 50 ohm terminators I have found are > home-made (solder-type BNC plug + 51 Ohm resistor). I thought I'd seen them (N-BNC) in the CPC catalogue, but when I looked just now, I found N-to-anything_but_BNC for around ?1.50. Maybe I was thinking of Farnell (who ain't so cheap). Cirkit sell them for ?2.69. Ouch! I've just found the price in the Electrospeed catalogue (?8). I got most of mine from older network installations, where people had added thinnet to (or in some places, instead of) original thick yellow ether. Older N-series tranceivers often got reused in such situations, I find. Electrospeed still claim to sell coax taps for ?22, and assorted transceiver adaptors (N-series ?15, straight single BNC ?12, dual (T) BNC ?14). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jss at ou.edu Thu Mar 22 19:05:00 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) References: <01Mar22.173811est.119176@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ABA9EE6.D86E30EA@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <000401c0b335$48e35330$0a01a8c0@station1> This is really exciting. Most of us know of one or more local classic computer clubs, but I'm willing to bet this would be the first international organization dedicated to the hobby/lifestyle. With some success, many of the local organizations might eventually want become part of our larger group as chapters. The inevitable question: who would be the fearless leader? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 22 18:10:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010322102425.023f06f0@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > I've made contact with a guy who's scanned 20,046 pages of the > docs listed below, at 300 to 400 DPI. He first told me about the > UCSD p-System docs he'd scanned. Below the list is his description > of the process he followed. WOW!!! > I'm planning to get a copy of what he has and burn it to CD-R. Does > anyone else have an interest in these docs, or have any ideas about > distribution without massive copyright violation? I'm certainly interested in seeing them disseminated. If I was setup to do so I would host them off my server (I do eventually plan to host this sort of stuff from the VCF site). The question is, how can we get this guy to continue to scan in documenation as he has? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 22 18:20:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) In-Reply-To: <3ABA9EE6.D86E30EA@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > I'm in as well. I think the logistics and legalities could be worked > out. I have space on my Web server I would more than glad to donate > for the project. I also will be building a very large storage building > this summer solely for my computers. There will be plenty of space to > park workstations to mainframes. I live in the Niagara Falls NY area. > Two hours to Toronto, Two hours to Syracuse. Just some quick ideas on how this could be expanded: - A formal "club" is organized with a leadership structure primarily for handling the business and finances of the club - Club maintains checking account/credit card for purchases - Club maintains account with no frills shipping agency like Forward Air - Club produces monthly newsletter to inform members of what's going on (upcoming auctions, purchases made, club funds, articles, etc). - Membership dues are required; membership gives you: access to group buying power at auctions, ability to use Forward Air account for shipping, newsletter The whole club will be based around the premise of giving members access to surplus auctions nation (or world) wide. This concept of this club could be expanded to a more general sense, so that folks who collect other big things--arcade games, cars maybe, who knows what else (washing machines?)--can also benefit from the collective. This could actually be the basis of a profitable business, if there are enough hobbyists and collectors out there of large things. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 22 21:04:45 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: New HP Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010322220445.34f747dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> I went scrounging again today and found a new source of old computers. There I found and passed up a HP 9000 835 and a HP 9836A. BUT I did bring home a HP 9000 520 (aka HP 9020). :-) I used to think the HP 9845 was big and heavy but not any more! I don't know much about the 520 except that they were supposed to be the replacement for the HP 9845 but had developement problems and were very late getting into production and few of them were sold. I believe it has BASIC in ROM but I'm not sure. Does anyone have docs for these? It has two HP-IB cables that are connected internally and a 15 pin socket under the front edge. What are they for? I picked up a HP 9153 hard drive that was in the same box with the 520. I'm hoping that there's software for the 520 on it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Mar 22 21:08:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) In-Reply-To: <000b01c0b2e3$d81c0850$0a01a8c0@station1> References: <"Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard" <200103220038.f2M0cah15401@bg-tc-ppp1630.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010322220823.4517be7c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:22 AM 3/22/01 -0600, you wrote: > >And it would need a cool name. :-) > >Thoughts? > Hmmm, old computer buzzards? From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Mar 22 20:11:44 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:22 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010322102425.023f06f0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010322181144.007dd100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> 60 pages per minute scanner, double-sided? Holy Crap that's fast! Do not wear a loose necktie when working on that machine! I don't know many high-end photocopiers that would go that fast. I'm floored, Edwin At 12:51 PM 3/22/2001 -0600, you wrote: > >I've made contact with a guy who's scanned 20,046 pages of the >> What sort of process did you follow? What sort of devices? > >have it, we were demoing a new scanner from Fujitsu. This thing >literally does 60 pages/min at 300 dpi - *both* sides. It's about half >that fast at 400 dpi, which I had to use for the IC databooks to get the >fine print. Needless to say, I did most of my scanning on that. From jss at ou.edu Thu Mar 22 20:20:30 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) References: Message-ID: <000301c0b33f$d4fe21b0$0a01a8c0@station1> > The whole club will be based around the premise of giving members access > to surplus auctions nation (or world) wide. This concept of this club > could be expanded to a more general sense, so that folks who collect other > big things--arcade games, cars maybe, who knows what else (washing > machines?)--can also benefit from the collective. I say let's not expand much; I think we would be more fruitful if all resources were dedicated acquiring only classic computers. That's my $0.02. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Mar 22 20:21:39 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? References: Message-ID: <005701c0b33f$fedad640$0100a8c0@dellhare> Sellam - I must have missed this posting... what is the URL for the list of documentation...? Bruce Ray bkr@SimuLogics.com Novas [okay, Eclipses and MVs] are forever... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: Re: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, John Foust wrote: > > > I've made contact with a guy who's scanned 20,046 pages of the > > docs listed below, at 300 to 400 DPI. He first told me about the > > UCSD p-System docs he'd scanned. Below the list is his description > > of the process he followed. > > WOW!!! > > > I'm planning to get a copy of what he has and burn it to CD-R. Does > > anyone else have an interest in these docs, or have any ideas about > > distribution without massive copyright violation? > > I'm certainly interested in seeing them disseminated. If I was setup to > do so I would host them off my server (I do eventually plan to host this > sort of stuff from the VCF site). > > The question is, how can we get this guy to continue to scan in > documenation as he has? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 22 20:34:49 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:31:35 -0800 . Message-ID: In message , Mike Ford writes: >Most likely I have it, no matter what that "it" is regarding older network >stuff. Email me directly with, hopefully, an idea of what exactly you need >and I will look in my boxes. I know this is a longshot since this is more telecom than networking, but do you by any chance have any Tellabs equipment in your collection? In particular, I'm looking for a 4-wire E&M interface card for their T-1 multiplexer product. When I first got out of college I went to work for them and that card was my first design in industry. When I left the company I never managed to snag one as a keepsake. Thanks, Brian L. Stuart From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 22 22:22:13 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) References: Message-ID: <3ABACF74.4B142E26@heathers.stdio.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > > > I'm in as well. I think the logistics and legalities could be worked > > out. I have space on my Web server I would more than glad to donate > > for the project. I also will be building a very large storage building > > this summer solely for my computers. There will be plenty of space to > > park workstations to mainframes. I live in the Niagara Falls NY area. > > Two hours to Toronto, Two hours to Syracuse. > > Just some quick ideas on how this could be expanded: > > - A formal "club" is organized with a leadership structure primarily for > handling the business and finances of the club > - Club maintains checking account/credit card for purchases > - Club maintains account with no frills shipping agency like Forward Air > - Club produces monthly newsletter to inform members of what's going on > (upcoming auctions, purchases made, club funds, articles, etc). > - Membership dues are required; membership gives you: access to group > buying power at auctions, ability to use Forward Air account for > shipping, newsletter > Excellent ideas... > > The whole club will be based around the premise of giving members access > to surplus auctions nation (or world) wide. This concept of this club > could be expanded to a more general sense, so that folks who collect other > big things--arcade games, cars maybe, who knows what else (washing > machines?)--can also benefit from the collective. This could actually be > the basis of a profitable business, if there are enough hobbyists and > collectors out there of large things. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org I think the main focus should stay computers since this is why were here in the first place. There are a lot of people outside of this list that would like to be involved as well. Brian. From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 22 16:46:23 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: Update: AAUI TP dongle and Basilisk II Mac emulator In-Reply-To: <200103051442.f25EgPs78825@bg-tc-ppp711.monmouth.com> References: <20010303230637.YFOS25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Mar 3, 2001 06:05:57 pm" Message-ID: <20010323034614.IUBF29116.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Bill and everybody else, I'm pleased with that dongle thing, I used it to transfer the stuff first with a HVF explorer to place the files in HFS image disk w/ raw data fork selected. Then moved stuff between pc emulating a Mac (basilisk II, freeware) to real Mac. Far easier than all those disks sneakernet and I didn't have correct scsi cable for my PCI controller (HD connector to centronics needed). Nearly 60 MB moved at snail's pace due to emulation but does work as it should be which is fine with me. :-) All this stuff is freeware or demoware, just the same it earned their worth for me. Treashing around story: Took me hours searching because the pc-mac sharing or conversion utilities via network (examples: DAVE, MacPclan are over $120 US or more which will break my limited canadian budget and very leery about asking so much of my personal details before obtaining demo programs. When I saw a webpage suggesting Basilisk II, I pounced on it like a cat. Then more hours on basilisk II/sharing figuring out and RTFM'ing lot of stuff to get everything to work but I succeeded! Tip: Somewhere in that netscape/IE on peecee is screwing the pooch on hqx, before clicking that ok button to download, change .hqx for .txt. When d/l done, rename it back. That works. I still don't figure out why HVF explorer doesn't work on mac formatted disks but basilisk II will read/write these 1.44 disks, remember peecees can't deal with 400K/800K due to FD controller issues. That is what real Mac I moving stuff to is for. Amazing how small that Basilisk II is and fairly stable, nothing left out to make mac emulation to work and 100% lookalike. Funny, that ran like scalded rabbit on duron 800. It stutters sometimes because both HFS images were on old 540MB hd, other than that, it crackles. Bill, Thanks for that dongle!! Wizard with big smile. FYI: Basilisk II is ported to linux, Amiga, win9x/NT/2000 and one other I forgot. Only supports 512K or 1MB Mac roms, everything you need are bundled in one download except for HVF explorer. Download that 11MB PDF basilisk II manual is a must as it has new info in it, far more info than what I have seen on webpages. This file does contains vital info that is required to get started and installing OS, plus at least one extension has to be OFF. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 22 22:16:48 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: ID oddball HP board Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010322201648.009a4980@192.168.42.129> Date codes on the chips are in the 1991 range, so it fits the ten-year rule... Got a full-length EISA card, made by HP. Part # on board is 25565-60002. No match whatsoever at HP or on Google. Surface-mount chips on both sides. Motorola MC68302FE16C CPU, single 72-pin SIMM socket with a 1MB SIMM in there at the moment. Front bracket has a single 62-pin female D-shell connector. Bracket also sports a single amber LED at the top labeled 'Fault,' and the designation 'PSI' directly below the D-sub. (1): What the fsck have I got? (2): Assuming I don't need it, would anyone else want the thing or should I feed it to the recycle bin? Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From red at bears.org Thu Mar 22 22:36:43 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: ID oddball HP board In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010322201648.009a4980@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Bruce Lane wrote: > amber LED at the top labeled 'Fault,' and the designation 'PSI' directly > below the D-sub. > > (1): What the fsck have I got? Here's some more information to go on. Mine's incomplete, but maybe it'll help you search. HP J2220B#002 EISA PSI interface ~or~ HP J2815A EISA dual port PSI (PSI = programmable serial interface - protocol depends on software) Supported in all PA-RISC machins with EISA slots. Supported OS revs appear to be 10.10-11.0/32 Apparently there were also versions of the PSI for HP-PB. HTH ok r. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Mar 23 00:03:42 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: ID oddball HP board In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010322201648.009a4980@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010322220342.009ad3a0@192.168.42.129> At 23:36 22-03-2001 -0500, Bear wrote: >(PSI = programmable serial interface - protocol depends on software) >Supported in all PA-RISC machins with EISA slots. Supported OS revs appear >to be 10.10-11.0/32 Ahhhh. Ok, that makes sense. This begs the question, does anyone need the thing? I sure can't use it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Fri Mar 23 00:41:05 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: SUN Networking problems Message-ID: <28598.985329665@www37.gmx.net> Peter Turnbull wrote: >It sounds like you've shorted the cable. Do those transceivers have a set >of LEDs on them? I suspect not, but that might tell you if anything is >being transmitted/received. The InterGraph transceivers have three LEDs labeled PWR, SQE and COL while the NV1000 only has one located next to the AUI connector. It's been quite some time since the error happened and I've forgotten how they behaved, but I'll re-try and watch 'em this weekend. >You could try removing one terminator and testing the DC resistance >between core and shield of the coax; it should be 50 ohms with nothing >powered up. If you have shorted it... OK, I tested with my DMM and there was a reading of 51,4 Ohms on it - I guess that's inside the tolerance and not to be called a short... Tony Duell wrote: >>we've put another transceiver on the cable strictly according to the >>installation guide that came with it (drilling hole into cable with >>recommended tool etc...). >>Since we've done that, it's no longer possible to print from one of the >>SUNs to the CalComp although the PC is not yet connected to the >>transceiver. >THis may be something that has been mangled by the translation into >English, but I want to get it right : Can you print from one of the Suns >and not from the other, Or Can neither Sun print? Yes, it was a bit of a strange translation (my fault...) but the meaning is the following: One SUN only can't print while the other one cannot be tested as it doesn't boot up due to internal data loss in the battery buffered RAM. >...I would suspect either damage to one of the transceivers (was the network powered up when you drilled the cable?... No, we had powered down everything and even disconnected the drop cables from all units on the network before drilling the tap hole. >...or maybe a reflection from the 'stub' caused by the new transceiver (did you follow all the rules about unequal spacing of the transceivers, etc? There are several black marks on the yellow cable and when we got it, we were told if we ever were going to add another transceiver, we should put it next to one of those marks. And so we did. But as there seem to be rather complicated rules for working out this, I'd like to know them in order to check if the markings on the cable show the correct places. Thank you all for your suggestions on finding the problem. -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.de From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Mar 23 00:44:36 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: Xenix/286-Any hints? In-Reply-To: from "Mario Premke" at Mar 08, 2001 06:17:56 PM Message-ID: <200103230644.WAA20134@eskimo.com> > Yes, I checked it. Coherent run on 286 with the usual 64K code and 64K > data limitation, but the best: You can download a full binary > distributions and the kernel sources from : ftp.mayn.de/pub/coherent > I will now try to get it running on my 286 ... Very nice! Unfortunately I only could connect once (out of three tries, two with an FTP client and one with a Web browser) and couldn't see any file names except the indexes. Can you give me more details? And do you know if the non-kernel sources are available? -- Derek P.S. Mail to your personal address bounced. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 23 01:47:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: References: Your message of Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:31:35 -0800 . Message-ID: >In message , Mike Ford writes: >>Most likely I have it, no matter what that "it" is regarding older network >>stuff. Email me directly with, hopefully, an idea of what exactly you need >>and I will look in my boxes. > >I know this is a longshot since this is more telecom than networking, >but do you by any chance have any Tellabs equipment in your collection? >In particular, I'm looking for a 4-wire E&M interface card for their >T-1 multiplexer product. When I first got out of college I went to >work for them and that card was my first design in industry. When I >left the company I never managed to snag one as a keepsake. > >Thanks, >Brian L. Stuart I wouldn't know it if it bit me. ;) But, I go to some telecomm auctions, so if I very clearly understand what it is, I could look for one. These guys are sometimes local to me in Orange, CA, and they sell tons of telecomm. http://www.waltersassoc.com/ Also once I know what it is, I can ask a couple of the guys I know who are buyers at this type of auction. Cheers, Mike Ford From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 23 01:33:51 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) In-Reply-To: <000401c0b335$48e35330$0a01a8c0@station1> References: <01Mar22.173811est.119176@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ABA9EE6.D86E30EA@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: >This is really exciting. Most of us know of one or more local classic >computer clubs, but I'm willing to bet this would be the first international >organization dedicated to the hobby/lifestyle. > >With some success, many of the local organizations might eventually want >become part of our larger group as chapters. > >The inevitable question: who would be the fearless leader? I don't think a "leader" as such is possible, each actual bidder, and the actual owner of the storage area has to be the master of that portion, but some or "a" coordinator is essential. Perhaps a board that can meet from time to time to watch the farm, and officers for specific areas? Things needed. List server to move this off classic computing, and allow what is likely to be a moderate amount of non public conversation. FTP space to quickly allow upload and display of images etc. Web, of course we need web space. ;) First person needed. Email coordinator until a list server is running, and then perhaps to manage the list. First thing to know. Who are all the people, and what sorts of resources can they contribute, space, a truck, strong back, strong credit line, resale license so we don't pay sales tax, etc. etc.. What are all these people interested in. Just do it. I don't think this is a NASA tupe project where all contingencies have to be accounted for. Nothing will be a better instructor than to bid on a few lots and see how it works out. From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Fri Mar 23 08:27:22 2001 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? Message-ID: <3ABB08EB.24998.14262489@localhost> As previously mentioned these are probably MS01-CA for DECstation 3100 or DECstation 5000/1xx or Personal DECstation 5000/xx. Note that MS01-AA (a pair of 2Mb SIMMs) and MS01-CA (a pair of 8Mb SIMMs) cannot be mixed - well they can but then the 8Mb SIMMs pretend to be 2Mb SIMMs, i.e. 2Mb+2Mb + 8Mb+8Mb => 8Mb. Doug. PS - Anybody got any to sell - I'm looking for 3 MS01-CA, i.e. 6 x 8Mb SIMMs for a total of 48Mb. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 23 02:08:34 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: "Edwin P. Groot" "Re: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online?" (Mar 22, 18:11) References: <3.0.5.32.20010322181144.007dd100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <10103230808.ZM2405@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 22, 18:11, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > 60 pages per minute scanner, double-sided? Holy Crap that's fast! Do > not wear a loose necktie when working on that machine! I don't know many > high-end photocopiers that would go that fast. Our two Oce 3165's do 62 ppm double sided. See http://dev.oce.co.uk/Copying/Products/Digital/3165/Default.htm -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 23 04:39:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: <10103230808.ZM2405@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20010322181144.007dd100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <10103230808.ZM2405@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >Our two Oce 3165's do 62 ppm double sided. See >http://dev.oce.co.uk/Copying/Products/Digital/3165/Default.htm We have a couple of OCE machines hooked up to our network and they have their own dedicated print server right there at the machine. They are pretty impressive. Unfortunately when the people who have the service contract came out to update the ColorSync software for the Mac side, they totally disabled the Novell side in the process...took us a little bit to figure out why none of the Windows machines could print to it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Mar 23 07:15:50 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? Message-ID: Hi all! > ..... I am not in the habit of actively reply to this group, although I read ClassicCmp *every* day. I work at Oc?, and even did the software of the scanner drive and part of the Image Logic of the Oc? 3165. I also know of ScanLogic and (of course) have access to all the goodies. The scanner actually processes about 54 pages A4 / minute. I copied almost all the Field Maintenance Print Set doc that I have. To name a few: RL11, 11/40, RL02, RX02, TE16, TS03, TMB11. And many more. The problem is that I can not make it all available for the following reasons: 1. it is scanned at 600 dpi (!) --> *BIG* files (see my website) When you print it on A3 (ledger), the copy is sometimes even better than the original, because Image Logic enhances thin lines. Coffee spots are less visible. 2. Because it is so many, it fills more than 4 CD-ROMs. 3. How about legal issues ????? If Sellam (or anybody else) has some 2,4 Gbyte space available I am willing to make a copy of the 5 CD's, and share the data with everybody on this fine list. When the problems (making it available) are all solved, I am willing to continue scanning. I can scan all manuals (A4, letter) and quick ref cards just as easy. I can post a complete list (with file size!) if you like. When you send me doc, I will scan that too, but I am not going to pay for the return postage, if you want the doc back.... Kind regards, Henk Gooijen, PDP-11 collector Sneak-peek of retro-computing: http://home.12move.nl/~sh416008 (by far not up-to-date, heavily under construction) From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Mar 23 07:27:07 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: System 36 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010323082308.00a68a80@mail.wincom.net> I have been given a Model 5363 and would like to try to get it operational. Does anyone have any suggestions on where I might find documentation? Even an operators manual would help. Thanks Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 23 07:33:12 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: Club (was Re: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard) In-Reply-To: References: <000401c0b335$48e35330$0a01a8c0@station1> <01Mar22.173811est.119176@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ABA9EE6.D86E30EA@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010323072918.02113ee0@pc> What you're describing is usually called "a company". Companies that buy junk and find interested buyers are called "surplus companies" or beter still "junk dealers". If you can find someone to work for it for little to no pay, it's usually called "a charity". In this case, because it involves mostly the middle-aged attempting to acquire and maintain products from years ago, I think you can call it "a club"... but still you'll need to find a generous soul with too much time, money and storage space. - John From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 23 08:22:10 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: System 36 In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010323082308.00a68a80@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: There are tons of info around for the S/3x systems, mostly on IBMs sites. I have a friend/ex coworker that knows them inside out and will relay this to him to see if he can clue you in on sources, or may even have excess materials he may wish to sell. => -----Original Message----- => From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Charles E. Fox => Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:27 AM => To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org => Subject: System 36 => => => I have been given a Model 5363 and would like to try to get it => operational. Does anyone have any suggestions on where I might find => documentation? Even an operators manual would help. => => Thanks => => Charlie Fox => Chas E. Fox Video Productions => 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 => foxvideo@wincom.net => Check out: => Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com => => From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Mar 23 09:05:50 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: pdp 11s to be auctioned at Goddard ( plus trivia ) Message-ID: What we need is a central repository for classic computers:) About 15 miles down the road from where I live, near Kansas City, the National Archives has a big underground spot for all sorts of records. Part of the Smithsonian Archives is there. Space is cheap. A piece of trivia, I once heard that all of the population of Kansas City could be housed underground in case of Nuclear War. The entire area is underlain by limestone quarries. There are spots where they run trains full of frozen vegetables in and unload them. They can have a power failure and the temperature only goes up about 3 degrees in a month. Although they had a fire and it took several months to choke it off and they ended up pumping in liquid CO2 to smother the fire. The local newspaper, Kansas City Star, sent all of their reporter's notebooks and unpublished photos to a one of the "caves". Lots of valuable information especially about President Truman who's from the area. The newspapers and paper have to be acid neutralized or you end up with powder. Actually logistics and conservation is always a problem. You actually need an ongoing process to reexamine and prevent rust, vermin, and oxidation. You can't just store it you must actively maintain it. I'm sure I'm "Preaching to the choir". Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 09:28:43 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: <3ABA9CDF.2332BDBB@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010323152843.23655.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Roth wrote: > > > The console tape drives need to be repaired so it no longer boots. > > > > What's the problem? Rollers turn to goo? Electronic failure? > > Major Goo... There's been some threads on this topic, even lately. I don't know that anyone has a stock replacement, but I'd be interested (got a pair of 11/750s, an 11/730, a VT103 and a couple of HP serial analyzers that use the same transport mechanism). I haven't fired up any of these lately, but I'd be surprised if some of them hadn't had the roller turn to goo by now. > > There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee... Commercial: http://www.sgalt.com/page30.htm Freeware: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/utils/tu58/ (took a while to find that second one... there's no actual web page for it) > > ...I've also contemplated taking the emulator... adding a text LCD > > display... building up a virtual tape library. > Sounds like a very cool project. I have been wanting to toy with interfacing > an LCD display with a cheapie PC to use as a MP3 player in my car. It's a common use for them. > The Winamp parallel port <>LCD connection seems to becoming a bit of a > standard of sorts. It has. I haven't wired up any parallel interfaces, but I have a couple flavors of serial interfaced displays - Matrix Orbital (an established de facto standard in serial LCD command sets) and the B.G. Micro PIC-n-LCD, a $12 PIC that handles the messy stuff for you. > I even have an LRP package for interfacing an LCD to my router so you can > watch the IP traffic. Love to get a URL to that. I run LRP myself, and set them up for friends with cable modems about every other month. > Way cool project BUT the display is still in the bubble wrap. Same problem, > little time. It's all about priorities. I have a set of back burner projects that have been there for ten plus years, but they are still there (RK11-C restoration, PDP-8/i re-restoration, TU-58 emulator, Straight-8 cleaning (printer's ink), and such). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 09:44:15 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010323154415.25808.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Short answer is that I have three boxes now sitting on my desk; digital > > DESTA, 3Com, and Cabletron, and they use a interchangible TAP that fits in > > the top of the unit. I have three kinds of TAP between them, a single BNC, > > a BNC T, and a N T. The TAP fits into the top of the unit making contact > > via 3 long pins that fit into a board edge header, and get secured via 2 > > screws through the front of the base unit. Exactly. I have two Cabletron units and have seen DESTAs elsewhere. > > My guess is that other variations exist, ie a vampire tap, that would be > > compatible with the lower units. > > I have certainly seen vampire taps that fit onto the tranceivers themselves. I have one of those and a single BNC. I interested in eventually locating at least one more vampire tap so I can put up that a of Thicknet to show folks how it _used_ to be done. It's unnecessary from a functional standpoint (I have lots of 10Base2 and 10BaseT transceivers), so it's ultra-low priority. I suppose I would be happy with a N-series connector adapater, but in the old days, I never saw anyone break Etherhose to put on an N-connector, so I guess I just don't think of that as the "right" way to do it. Wouldn't mind finding a nest of transceiver cables, though. A bunch of mine left attached to SPARC2s and SPARC IPXs because the AT&T transceivers I have a pile of, don't fit up against the case of the Sun boxes (kinda like certain SCSI cables). It was easier to give up the transceiver cables than find more tranceivers that fit directly. I have a few, but not as many as I have tranceivers, by half. ObHistory: I was suppose to get a nanosecond of 10Base5 cable with a genuine sticker bearing Grace Hopper's signature from DECUS for getting up and telling a war story about ignorant users in front of a huge crowd at a symposium in Anaheim (a reward for a) being willing to speak and b) having a story interesting enough to be worth telling), but they didn't produce the goods. :-( They used to sell these things along with coffee mugs, etc., as I recall. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Fri Mar 23 10:15:33 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) Message-ID: The LCD package for LRP is at: http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/Packages/LCDProc.htm I might be able to help you with parts for your RK11-C restoration. You have a working classic-8? Brian. I even have an LRP package for interfacing an LCD to my router so you can > watch the IP traffic. Love to get a URL to that. I run LRP myself, and set them up for friends with cable modems about every other month. > Way cool project BUT the display is still in the bubble wrap. Same problem, > little time. It's all about priorities. I have a set of back burner projects that have been there for ten plus years, but they are still there (RK11-C restoration, PDP-8/i re-restoration, TU-58 emulator, Straight-8 cleaning (printer's ink), and such). -ethan Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Mar 23 10:16:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Gooijen H wrote: > If Sellam (or anybody else) has some 2,4 Gbyte space available I am > willing to make a copy of the 5 CD's, and share the data with > everybody on this fine list. I'd love to, and someday I will host a public archive of docs and software, but right now I simply don't have the bandwidth :( I'm hoping to eventually upgrade to something that has outbound bandwidth of 384Kbps or more. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chris at mainecoon.com Fri Mar 23 11:46:36 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam wrote: > On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Gooijen H wrote: [stuff deleted] > I'd love to, and someday I will host a public archive of docs and > software, but right now I simply don't have the bandwidth :( But I do. If the original poster wants to contact me off-list I'll arrange to make the stuff accessible. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 23 12:34:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: SUN Networking problems In-Reply-To: <28598.985329665@www37.gmx.net> from "Arno Kletzander" at Mar 23, 1 07:41:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2928 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010323/a09303b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 23 12:38:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: <20010323152843.23655.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 23, 1 07:28:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010323/4b9a79fd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 23 12:42:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <20010323154415.25808.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 23, 1 07:44:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010323/def0695d/attachment.ksh From mark at mtapley2.space.swri.edu Fri Mar 23 12:59:20 2001 From: mark at mtapley2.space.swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: NeXT pile for rescue in Philadelphia, PA Message-ID: <200103231859.AA02122@mtapley2.space.swri.edu> All, apologies if this is redundant, I'm behind on reading and in digest mode anyway. This appeared today on comp.sys.next.marketplace. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Path: sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!feeder.qis.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!mail1.sas.upenn.edu!nospam From: nospam@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (David Anstine) Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace Subject: NeXT Clearing House Date: 23 Mar 2001 17:02:05 GMT Organization: University of Pennsylvania Lines: 38 Message-ID: <99fvid$ke2$1@netnews.upenn.edu> I have the following NeXT equipment in my basement that needs to go. I'm looking to move the whole lot and will take $1,000, or best offer. If you are not serious, please do not jerk me around. I've already had three parties back out at the last second. One more time and this stuff goes in the dumpster. 40 NeXTstations (approximately 1/2 are turbos) 34 NeXT Monochrome monitors 2 Cubes (one is missing the back cover) 3 NeXT Laser printers (Only one is confirmed to be working) 38 NeXT keyboards 30 NeXT Mice 1 NeXT Color printer 1 NeXT cdrom drive 1 Digital Eye Note that I can't vouch for the condition or existence of hard drives in all of these machines. Also I, recently tested the monitors for screen brightness; approximately 20 were ok, 8 were slightly dim, 2 were definitely dim, and 4 had some weird distortion problems. I also have: Lots of software (FrameMaker, WordPerfect, Lotus, DataPhile, you name it, I probably have it) Lots of other junk (NextWorld Magazines, NeXT manuals, NeXT coffee cup, NeXT stickers, etc..) Note: I will not ship any items. This is simply too much stuff to deal with (boxing, UPS, etc..). If you want it, you have to pick it up. I am located in Philadelphia, PA. -dave email me at my last name at sas dot upenn dot edu ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Anybody near Philadelphia, please respond. I'll be off-line during the weekend, but if you are interested email me and maybe we can put together a group buy. Even assuming some bad units, this works out on the order of $35/NeXTStation, near complete. Questions for the seller, if you contact him directly to save time (and please feel free to do so) would include whether he's got the mono monitor cables available. - Mark From curt at atari-history.com Fri Mar 23 16:43:01 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: NeXT pile for rescue in Philadelphia, PA References: <200103231859.AA02122@mtapley2.space.swri.edu> Message-ID: <3ABBD175.6459FDD7@atari-history.com> If anyone is interested in going in with me on this, I'm willing to drive my SUV down and pick all of this stuff up, pay for it and then ship it out to everyone who gones in on paying, let me hear from everyone and if a few people want to go in on this, all the better. Curt Mark Tapley wrote: > All, > apologies if this is redundant, I'm behind on reading and in digest > mode anyway. This appeared today on comp.sys.next.marketplace. > vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv > Path: > sn-us!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!feeder.qis.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news.voicenet.com!nntp.upenn.edu!mail1.sas.upenn.edu!nospam > From: nospam@mail1.sas.upenn.edu (David Anstine) > Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.marketplace > Subject: NeXT Clearing House > Date: 23 Mar 2001 17:02:05 GMT > Organization: University of Pennsylvania > Lines: 38 > Message-ID: <99fvid$ke2$1@netnews.upenn.edu> > > I have the following NeXT equipment in my basement that needs to go. I'm > looking to move the whole lot and will take $1,000, or best offer. > > If you are not serious, please do not jerk me around. I've already had > three parties back out at the last second. One more time and this stuff > goes in the dumpster. > > 40 NeXTstations (approximately 1/2 are turbos) > 34 NeXT Monochrome monitors > 2 Cubes (one is missing the back cover) > 3 NeXT Laser printers (Only one is confirmed to be working) > 38 NeXT keyboards > 30 NeXT Mice > 1 NeXT Color printer > 1 NeXT cdrom drive > 1 Digital Eye > > Note that I can't vouch for the condition or existence of hard drives in > all of these machines. Also I, recently tested the monitors for screen > brightness; approximately 20 were ok, 8 were slightly dim, 2 were > definitely dim, and 4 had some weird distortion problems. > > I also have: > > Lots of software (FrameMaker, WordPerfect, Lotus, DataPhile, you name it, > I probably have it) > > Lots of other junk (NextWorld Magazines, NeXT manuals, NeXT coffee cup, > NeXT stickers, etc..) > > Note: I will not ship any items. This is simply too much stuff to deal > with (boxing, UPS, etc..). If you want it, you have to pick it up. I am > located in Philadelphia, PA. > > -dave > > email me at my last name at sas dot upenn dot edu > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Anybody near Philadelphia, please respond. I'll be off-line during the > weekend, but if you are interested email me and maybe we can put together a > group buy. Even assuming some bad units, this works out on the order of > $35/NeXTStation, near complete. Questions for the seller, if you contact him > directly to save time (and please feel free to do so) would include whether > he's got the mono monitor cables available. > - Mark From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Mar 23 14:26:06 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010323122517.01f3a2b0@208.226.86.10> DEC has stated publically that any publication they no longer publish may be republished by a third party as long as it is not for profit. --Chuck At 02:15 PM 3/23/01 +0100, you wrote: >3. How about legal issues ????? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Mar 23 15:28:02 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: RK11-C and Straight-8 restoration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010323212802.11945.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- brian roth wrote: > The LCD package for LRP is at: > > http://lrp.steinkuehler.net/Packages/LCDProc.htm OK. I already know about that one. I wrote the PIC-n-LCD driver for LCDproc. > I might be able to help you with parts for your RK11-C restoration. It's not so much parts as time and docs. I may have the RK11-C prints (got a lot of B-sized drawings), but if I don't, the first order of business is identifying which PSU it calls for, seeing if I have one, and fashioning a substitute if I don't. I got it in 1984 from Software Results before I was hired there, along with a pair of drives, one RK05J and one RK05F. I proceeded, in my youthful ignorance, to crash the RK05F by messing with the platter before it had fully spun down. I eventally even got the cabinet this whole mess came out of, but I do not know if I ever got the PSU. I also have an RKV11D (and I think an RK11D, too) for "real" work with RK05 drives. > You have a working classic-8? Another score from SRC was a pair of Straight-8s. One appears on the back of the large-format comic "CPU Wars" by Charles Andres. A photographer moved the modules around so it "looked nicer for the picture". The other was running a typesetting rig (I think via this PA-60 device I have that is a) made of the same modules and b) covered in ink, but that I have been unable to match up with any documentation). I have never applied power to either unit, waiting for the day I can give them a proper shakedown and PSU checkout (old/dry caps, etc). The PSUs are massive - +10V and -15V at several amps each. At least now, some of the docs are available for download. In 1985 when I got them, there was _nothing_! So, as of yet, they cannot be classified as working, but they are complete. My oldest running 8 at the moment is an -8/L. It's in the same rack as the -8/i which I did get working in High School, but hasn't been cabled up and powered on in a few years. I forget exactly how the green wires go on the power card and I don't want to fry _it_, either. I do wish I had a second set of high-speed punch and reader interface cards. I have to move them from box to box when I'm working with one vs. the other. Somewhere in a box of modules, I have the delay line needed to add the second core stack to the -8/i. That is another goal - upgrade the mem on the -8/i and try to get some sort of mass storage device on it and install some kind of OS on it. Got peripherals (RK05, RX01, DF32/DS32, TU56, PR04). Lacking in pre-omnibus interfaces. Thought about trying to wire in an RX8E once. I moved on to other things before I even grabbed the wire-wrap tool. Always thought a single ONMIBUS slot on the back of a PDP-8/L would be kinda cool. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Mar 23 15:49:53 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: NeXT pile for rescue in Philadelphia, PA In-Reply-To: <200103231859.AA02122@mtapley2.space.swri.edu>; from mark@mtapley2.space.swri.edu on Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 12:59:20PM -0600 References: <200103231859.AA02122@mtapley2.space.swri.edu> Message-ID: <20010323144953.F1663@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> If y'all do a group buy, I'm interested. On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 12:59:20PM -0600, Mark Tapley wrote: > Anybody near Philadelphia, please respond. I'll be off-line during the > weekend, but if you are interested email me and maybe we can put together a > group buy. Even assuming some bad units, this works out on the order of > $35/NeXTStation, near complete. Questions for the seller, if you contact him > directly to save time (and please feel free to do so) would include whether > he's got the mono monitor cables available. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From curt at atari-history.com Fri Mar 23 19:28:19 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... Message-ID: <3ABBF832.D6B0A5B3@atari-history.com> Ok... So far since my email myself and 4 others are interested in the equipment, I emailed the seller and asked if I could pay in advance by PayPal to secure the equipment and arrange for next weekend to drive down and pick it all up. I personally want dibs one 1 cube, monitor and color printer, so there is still a ton of stuff left, anyone who wants to join on, please resond back, the more the merrier and everyone will walk away with some great equipment & software for great prices, so reply and lets build up the list, please only respond if your serious and will follow through, I'm putting $1,000 out of my pocket on this to secure all of this stuff for everyone, please be curteous and not back out. Curt From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Mar 23 16:42:32 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Two points. First, "a piece" of yellow cable won't work. The lengths were part of the spec and very important. Having to do with reflections and such (anybody here still have a TDR??) Second, The cable is marked with black stripes. The taps must go on these stripes. While I have known people who put the transcievers with the N type connectors between yellow segments and on the ends of yellow segments, I have never known seen it recommended that you could/should cut the cable to insert one of these. I fear that after one or two of them, you would move the spacing between tap locations enough to adversely effect your network. This is, of course, assuming a production network and not two machines. But then. if all you had were two or three machines, a couple hundred feet of yellow cable seems pretty silly. I need to run up to the attic to look, but I think I have a spool of yellow cable up there that has never been used. It is free to anyone willing to pick it up. Of course, PDP-11 hardware donations are never refused. Alright, alright, curiosity got the best of me. I just got back down from the attic. I have: One spool of yellow cable. One 3Com tap with N connectors on each end. Two complete brand new transcievers with vampire taps. One blue AUI cable that's the longest I have ever seen. :-) I also think I could come up with maybe a half dozen of the more common AUI cables. So, can we start a bidding frenzy?? Anybody want to bid a QBUS SCSI module?? :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jss at ou.edu Fri Mar 23 17:19:43 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: NeXT pile for rescue in Philadelphia, PA References: <200103231859.AA02122@mtapley2.space.swri.edu> <3ABBD175.6459FDD7@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <002c01c0b3ef$c15c6f30$0a01a8c0@station1> > Even assuming some bad units, this works out on the order of > $35/NeXTStation, near complete. For that price (maybe a little more if need be), I would be glad to take one. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Mar 23 17:26:37 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... References: <3ABBF832.D6B0A5B3@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <00ee01c0b3f0$b6100500$12711fd1@default> Sorry missed the first email, what kind of pricing and what all does he have ? Thanks and sorry for the request. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:28 PM Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... > Ok... > > So far since my email myself and 4 others are interested in the > equipment, I emailed the seller and asked if I could pay in advance by > PayPal to secure the equipment and arrange for next weekend to drive > down and pick it all up. I personally want dibs one 1 cube, monitor > and color printer, so there is still a ton of stuff left, anyone who > wants to join on, please resond back, the more the merrier and everyone > will walk away with some great equipment & software for great prices, so > reply and lets build up the list, please only respond if your serious > and will follow through, I'm putting $1,000 out of my pocket on this to > secure all of this stuff for everyone, please be curteous and not back > out. > > > Curt > > > > From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Fri Mar 23 17:44:43 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <014f01c0b3f3$3d1fe860$99d9d63f@headleys> Hi I humbly appreciate the response. For a novice(in a very conservative sense of the word) user like myself, it will ultimately draw a couple other questions. I forgot to mention that I picked up these items for free and have no experience in VAX/DEC or UNIX for that matter. I want to take care of the hardware matter first and then deal with logging in after. 1)can you help me identify the console port and/or second serial port 2)Don't I need some kind of cable and what type 3)what is MMJ ports and port 0 also has an RS232 output My VaxServer is has the following ports: SCSI, a 25-pin db; 3 rj-11 type with left and right arrow; 2 Ethernet connector-one BNC and the other AUI; a 50-pin port; aport that looks like a printer port with a left and right arrow. My VT340 has the following ports: 2 RJ-11 type with left and right arrows; a printer port; a keyboard port; a 25-pin dB port; and a 8-pin mini din port Headley ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck McManis To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal > You connect the VT340 into the VAXServer 3100 console port and/or second > serial port. Turn them on and login. The nice thing about the VT340 is that > it has two MMJ ports and port 0 also has an RS232 output. > --Chuck > > At 06:33 PM 3/22/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I have a Vaxserver 3100 and a few vt340 available. Can they be used > >together and if so how? > >thanks for your consideration > > > >Headley > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 23 17:51:36 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... In-Reply-To: <00ee01c0b3f0$b6100500$12711fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Mar 23, 1 05:26:37 pm" Message-ID: <200103232351.PAA13306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Sorry missed the first email, what kind of pricing and what all does he > have ? Thanks and sorry for the request. I just want to know, what about us on the Left Coast? Can we get in on this? I'll pay the shipping. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From jss at ou.edu Fri Mar 23 18:26:15 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... References: <200103232351.PAA13306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <000d01c0b3f9$09da8b80$0a01a8c0@station1> > > Sorry missed the first email, what kind of pricing and what all does he > > have ? Thanks and sorry for the request. > > I just want to know, what about us on the Left Coast? Can we get in on > this? I'll pay the shipping. And I live in the middle. I had assumed in my last post that I could have the thing shipped to me if I paid for the shipping. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 23 18:09:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: from "Bill Gunshannon" at Mar 23, 1 05:42:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1265 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010324/d8f804b4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 23 17:57:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: RK11-C and Straight-8 restoration In-Reply-To: <20010323212802.11945.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 23, 1 01:28:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 940 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010323/b70803fc/attachment.ksh From djg at drs-esg.com Fri Mar 23 19:21:15 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: RK11-C and Straight-8 restoration In-Reply-To: <200103232351.RAA00600@opal.tseinc.com> from "classiccmp-digest" at Mar 23, 2001 05:51:04 PM Message-ID: <200103240121.UAA24506@drs-esg.com> > From: Ethan Dicks > > I have the delay line needed to add the second core stack to > the -8/i. That is another goal - upgrade the mem on the -8/i and try to > get some sort of mass storage device on it and install some kind of OS on it. > Got peripherals (RK05, RX01, DF32/DS32, TU56, PR04). Lacking in pre-omnibus > interfaces. > The DF32 is a external bus device so just hook up the 11 interface cables and away you go. I am restoring one of my 8/I's with DF32 now, computer is running and hope to have the drive finished this weekend. I should finish the DF/DS32 manual scanning also this weekend, it will be up with the rest soon and more pictures of the 8/I and DF32. The disk monitor system runs on DF/DS32, the paper tape image (and DF32 diags etc) are in ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/paper_tapes/ docs http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml OS/8 will run with a DF32 and DS32 and 8k but may not have enough space to be too useful. I also may be able to help with 8/I parts. The reader/punch can also be hooked up to an 8/I if it had the interface cards in the 8/I. Longer term the 8/I will join the 8/E runnable online although I will have to replace the disk heads with an emulation since the drive lands the heads on the disk when it spins down so has a limited number of spin down cycles. The platter is nickel cobalt alloy so is more durable than the iron oxide ones (ex RK05's) when the head does hit it. I also have a Straight 8 maintenance manual on the too scan list, if you need it (or any others, I may have them) before I get to it let me know and I will do it sooner. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Mar 23 19:50:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal In-Reply-To: <014f01c0b3f3$3d1fe860$99d9d63f@headleys> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> At 06:44 PM 3/23/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi >I humbly appreciate the response. For a novice(in a very conservative sense >of the word) user like myself, it will ultimately draw a couple other >questions. Not a problem, everyone starts with zero knowledge and works up. >1)can you help me identify the console port and/or second >serial port Yup, looking from the back of the M3100 there will be an MMJ hole and next to it a little switch that is recessed behind the panel. That is the console port and the small switch tells the system that you want to use it as a console. >2)Don't I need some kind of cable and what type Get any cable that has MMJ connectors on both ends and it will work. >3)what is MMJ ports and port 0 also has an RS232 output On the VT340, again looking from the back. There is a DB25 port on the left hand side. This is "port 1" when it is using RS-232 levels. Lower and to the right of this port are two MMJ plugs with the back to back arrows over them. These represent Port 1 again (this time using DEC levels) and Port 2. Connect the MMJ cable between Port 1, and the MMJ port you identified in step one above. Now turn on the VT340 and hit 'F3' to enter the setup menu. Set the 'comm' parameters for Port 1 to use the DEC-423 and 'data leads only' and 9600 baud, 8 data bits, and 1 stop bit. Now power on the VAX and look at the diagnostic LEDs. They should all come on and then some should go off in what appears to be a random sequence. After about 15 seconds a banner will print on the VT340 announcing the CPU type and start counting down the tests. If the diagnostic lights change from 'all on' to various other states and the VT340 does *NOT* print anything after 15 or 20 seconds, then using a small device (an ice pick works great) to change the position of that recessed switch you identified in step one, and power off and then on again the VAX and wait for the banner. >My VaxServer is has the following ports: SCSI, a 25-pin db; 3 rj-11 type >with left and right arrow; 2 Ethernet connector-one BNC and the other AUI; a >50-pin port; aport that looks like a printer port with a left and right >arrow. The console port is the one that is next to the small recessed switch and has the arrows over it. >My VT340 has the following ports: 2 RJ-11 type with left and right arrows; a >printer port; a keyboard port; a 25-pin dB port; and a 8-pin mini din port The ports on the VT340 (as you've ordered them) are: PORT 1, PORT 2, PRINTER, KEYBOARD, PORT 1 (RS-232), MOUSE. --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 23 19:38:58 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal Message-ID: <006d01c0b403$d95323e0$b7799a8d@ajp166> From: Compusync >I humbly appreciate the response. For a novice(in a very conservative sense >of the word) user like myself, it will ultimately draw a couple other >have no experience in VAX/DEC or UNIX for that matter. I want to take care Is VMS install or Ultrix (possible NETBSD?)?? >1)can you help me identify the console port and/or second >serial port Look at back pannel, the symbols in the plastic should help. If it's a vaxserver there will be three 6pin connectors like a telephone plug only with an offset loging clip. While the connector is odd those ports are RS423 (very similar to RS232). The VT340 has matching connectors (2) and also the standard 25pin serial connector. The 25pin connector on the vaxserver is also RS232 but not console. It is a full handshaking serial port suitable for a modem. >2)Don't I need some kind of cable and what type For the serial its just called MMJ or deconnect. There is only one type and varies only in length (no null modem or other odd wired versions). >3)what is MMJ ports and port 0 also has an RS232 output VT340 terminal on the back. >My VaxServer is has the following ports: SCSI, Standard SCSI-II useable with many types of drives, tapes and some CDroms. >a 25-pin db Modem use usually works up to 19.2k maybe 38kb. > 3 rj-11 type Those are acutally MMJ (modified modular jack/plug). Three identical serial ports save for one #3 if memory serves is the default console. >with left and right arrow; 2 Ethernet connector-one BNC and the other AUI; Exactly and inbetween a push swich to select one or the other. >50-pin port; aport that looks like a printer port with a left and right >arrow. Used with the right cable/connector it's 8 more serial ports. >My VT340 has the following ports: 2 RJ-11 type with left and right arrows; a >printer port; a keyboard port; a 25-pin dB port; and a 8-pin mini din port Ignore the 8pin mini-DIN as thats for optional mouse. The two RJ11 as you call them are the MMJ serial ports and port 0 is shared with the DB25. Which port is in use is selected by F4 (session select) and also the on screen configuration. NOTE: VT340 is a very nice DUAL session terminal. It allows two connection running at the same time independently or two sessions over one wire (under VMS or terminal server). I only have three VAXserver3100s (M10E versions) in the VAX herd (9 in all). I also have an assortment of terminals including a few VT320s, VT340, VT1200, VT125 and H19 (I built as a kit in 1978). Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Mar 23 19:43:27 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) Message-ID: <006e01c0b403$d9cbd650$b7799a8d@ajp166> From: Ethan Dicks >> > There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee... There is one that runs under UNIX. Also the rollers for the TU58 I clean off the goo to get down to the basic hub then use .500 od/.375 id Tygon tubing. which is a stretch fit over the hub, add a drop of super glue and trim to width as diameter is not critical and that material seems to hit it very close. I've done this to maybe 8 them I still use. Allison From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Mar 23 19:46:20 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: NeXT pile for rescue in Philadelphia, PA Message-ID: <7e.12a94d29.27ed566d@aol.com> In a message dated Fri, 23 Mar 2001 6:28:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Jeffrey S. Sharp" writes: << > Even assuming some bad units, this works out on the order of > $35/NeXTStation, near complete. For that price (maybe a little more if need be), I would be glad to take one. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu >> I would be interested at that price as well - for a complete unit.. It's gotta have the cables though cause I can't seem to find them anywhere and they're useless without them. Also, I would be willing to help with pick-up if need be as I am only 1 hr away from philly. Just let me know. -Linc Fessenden From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 13 02:33:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:23 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <258.472T850T5733987optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > For flexibility, I actually like the AAUI design. What particular flexibility is offered by the AAUI design as opposed to the common AUI? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 13 02:45:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: BSD/OS 1.1 In-Reply-To: <01Mar12.134210est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <1179.472T300T5854049optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >We seem to have a bunch of Unix-types on here so I thought I'd pose a >question. Today, I came across the following 5 HD disks from Berkeley >Software Design Inc: > - BSD/OS 1.1 Boot Disk 1, /boot and /bsd > - BSD/OS 1.1 Boot Disk 2, Installation Utilities > - BSD/OS 1.1 Kerberos, Kerberos Utilities > - BSD/OS 1.1 Encryption, Encryption Utilities & Src > - BSD/OS 1.1 EZ-Config, Configuration Tools > What's missing from this set that would keep it from installing? Is >there anything particularly interesting about it other than it appears to be >the ancestor of the current Net/FreeBSD? To the best of my knowledge, BSD/OS, which is still being developed by BSDi, is not so much an ancestor as a sibling of the open source BSDs. I just fired a NetBSD box up to see, and indeed threy all are branches on the same 4.3BSD NET/2 tree. What is interesting about that version is its age, most probably. Could you have a look at its hardware requirements? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." -- m3000 From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 13 03:00:49 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <571.472T2450T6005815optimus@canit.se> Alex Holden skrev: >On 12 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> The x100 PPC series won't run NetBSD due to the Nubus architecture as well >> as the lack of "open firmware". >You can run Linux on most of them, although the port isn't stable yet. >http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ Would that be monolith Linux or the Mach-based MkLinux? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If I don't document something, it's usually either for a good reason, or a bad reason. In this case it's a good reason. :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <1992Jan17.005405.16806@netlabs.com> From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Mar 23 20:58:13 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <258.472T850T5733987optimus@canit.se>; from optimus@canit.se on Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:33:17AM +0100 References: <258.472T850T5733987optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010323215813.C28348@alcor.concordia.ca> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:33:17AM +0100, Iggy Drougge (optimus@canit.se) wrote: > Jeff Hellige skrev: > > > For flexibility, I actually like the AAUI design. > > What particular flexibility is offered by the AAUI design as opposed to the > common AUI? Oh, well, let me tell you! Compared to the AUI connector I have in front of me, the AAUI connector has four inches of *very* flexible cable. :-) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From broth at heathers.stdio.com Fri Mar 23 21:42:42 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... References: <3ABBF832.D6B0A5B3@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3ABC17B2.2CA0F74F@heathers.stdio.com> Curt, Count me in on as complete a cube that is left. I'll pay the shipping as well. Brian. Curt Vendel wrote: > Ok... > > So far since my email myself and 4 others are interested in the > equipment, I emailed the seller and asked if I could pay in advance by > PayPal to secure the equipment and arrange for next weekend to drive > down and pick it all up. I personally want dibs one 1 cube, monitor > and color printer, so there is still a ton of stuff left, anyone who > wants to join on, please resond back, the more the merrier and everyone > will walk away with some great equipment & software for great prices, so > reply and lets build up the list, please only respond if your serious > and will follow through, I'm putting $1,000 out of my pocket on this to > secure all of this stuff for everyone, please be curteous and not back > out. > > Curt From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 23 21:07:17 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: BSD/OS 1.1 In-Reply-To: <1179.472T300T5854049optimus@canit.se> References: <1179.472T300T5854049optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >To the best of my knowledge, BSD/OS, which is still being developed by BSDi, >is not so much an ancestor as a sibling of the open source BSDs. >I just fired a NetBSD box up to see, and indeed threy all are branches on the >same 4.3BSD NET/2 tree. >What is interesting about that version is its age, most probably. Could you >have a look at its hardware requirements? Unfortunately I've yet to find whatever documentation or CD came along with the floppies. I'm still hoping to at least come up with the CD though. The disks are copyright 1994 by BSDI. I've never been able to find specific hardware requirements for it either but the date would suggest at least a 486 and 8 meg of RAM. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 23 21:15:15 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <258.472T850T5733987optimus@canit.se> References: <258.472T850T5733987optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >What particular flexibility is offered by the AAUI design as opposed to the >common AUI? It's not so much the AAUI having features that AUI doesn't, but I much prefer the smaller connector, the easier 'pinch' lock release vice the cumbersome slide-release on the AUI and the smaller tranciever size of AAUI boxes, though obviously it could just be that I've not seen that many AUI tranceivers and the ones I have seen have been pretty large. Otherwise they seem to have similar status displays and would appear to do much the same job. I do like the flexibility of having a single connector that, with the addition of the proper dongle, can be used with either 10base-T or 10base-2 ethernet connections. A nicer design than trying to cram 2-3 different connectors on a single ISA slot plate, such as 3COM does with their various cards. Then again I'm sure there are those that see it the opposite and are happy to have the various connectors without having to fool with the external tranceiver. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From curt at atari-history.com Fri Mar 23 22:34:14 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... References: <3ABBF832.D6B0A5B3@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3ABC23C6.CA3BF3EB@atari-history.com> Well, About 5-6 more people have jumped onboard, now we're just waiting to hear back from the guy who has the stuff, no answer to the email sent to him yet, will keep everyone posted as soon as I get a reply I will post to the maillist and we can hopefully start to divy all this stuff up and get it to some good homes. Curt Curt Vendel wrote: > Ok... > > So far since my email myself and 4 others are interested in the > equipment, I emailed the seller and asked if I could pay in advance by > PayPal to secure the equipment and arrange for next weekend to drive > down and pick it all up. I personally want dibs one 1 cube, monitor > and color printer, so there is still a ton of stuff left, anyone who > wants to join on, please resond back, the more the merrier and everyone > will walk away with some great equipment & software for great prices, so > reply and lets build up the list, please only respond if your serious > and will follow through, I'm putting $1,000 out of my pocket on this to > secure all of this stuff for everyone, please be curteous and not back > out. > > Curt From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Mar 23 23:12:15 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: <006e01c0b403$d9cbd650$b7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > >> > There is out there a TU-58 emulator for PeeCee... > > > There is one that runs under UNIX. > I've written one for DOS that needs some tweaking still... I'll cut loose the source code if someone wants to fix it up. Basically, it sometimes gets out of sync and you have to power down the 750 and restart the PC to get it back working... > Also the rollers for the TU58 I clean off the goo to get down to the > basic hub then use .500 od/.375 id Tygon tubing. which is a stretch > fit over the hub, add a drop of super glue and trim to width as > diameter is not critical and that material seems to hit it very close. > I've done this to maybe 8 them I still use. > > Allison > THANKS Allison! I bought two from Keyways, Inc. for $40 + shipping... For that price, I could have bought 20' of Tygon tubing... Live and learn... clint From mwigan at vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Sat Mar 24 02:15:57 2001 From: mwigan at vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Marcus Wigan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Western Digital PASCAL microengine / p-system. Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010324191439.00ac1d00@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> This is the first lost where my two favurite computers are discussed... I have several pascal Microengines (in dual processor z80/p100 form on s100) still running today, plus a range of Sage 4;'s running 8 different operating systems (several all at once) marc Wigan Australia From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 00:09:37 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: VESA SCSI In-Reply-To: <3AAE8A61.536CA3B1@internet1.net> Message-ID: <949.483T1850T4295703optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >Servers mainly. ALR, Unisys, Compaq, even IBM used it along side PCI. Didn't HP minis use EISA at one time as well? >I have a Unisys 486 server that is EISA. One of my SCSI cards, unused >at the moment, is the SE version od the bt-747. I got a Compaq Prolinea 300 (Pentium 75) with EISA last week, just a hundred crowns with a monitor and 1 GB SCSI HD & CD. I've also got a dual Pentium motherboard, but I haven't powered that up yet, due to lack of cases, processors and that bloody cooling. I hate "modern" computers and their ridiculous cooling requirements! I like to be able to sleep in the same room as my computers. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Se pensate che alcune sigle dei cartoni in Italia siano bruttine, ascoltatevi quella di Kenshiro in francese ("Ken le survivant")... Non saprei se sia pi? trash questa o quella di Mazinga Z in Francese... Nicola Solati om den franska signaturen till Hokut? no Ken From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 00:30:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <20010313.090538.-344893.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <1318.483T1650T4504931optimus@canit.se> Jeffrey l Kaneko skrev: >On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:45:02 -0800 Mike Ford >writes: >> AUI to 10bt adapters are still handy as many early devices had AUI >> and coax, and AUI to coax are handy as many newer devices are AUI and >> 10bt. >Not to mention the fact that *really* early devices (multibus ethernet >adapters come to mind, along with DEQNA's, and other stuff) that are >AUI *only*. Not only really early devices, my Personal DECsystem, which is hardly on-topic here, has only got an AUI connector. At least that's better than my DECstation 5000/200, which has only got a BNC connector. Not much freedom of choice there, and one of the reasons for which I must have a 10Base2 strip on my network whether I like it or not (Not that I mind =). >I've waited a *long* time for prices on AUI<->10bT tranceivers to fall >to reasonable levels so I could easily hook up such beasts. I've got quite a stack of such transceivers, they show up quite often on the fleamarket and are quite cheap, too. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Se pensate che alcune sigle dei cartoni in Italia siano bruttine, ascoltatevi quella di Kenshiro in francese ("Ken le survivant")... Non saprei se sia pi? trash questa o quella di Mazinga Z in Francese... Nicola Solati om den franska signaturen till Hokut? no Ken From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 01:04:54 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <359.483T2700T4846241optimus@canit.se> Glenatacme skrev: >Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". Now, I >don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please explain to me how >the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the imagination, win the prize in >the "least expandable" category???? Because it hasn't got any expansion ports? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 24 06:43:49 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Bill Gunshannon "RE: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems)" (Mar 23, 17:42) References: Message-ID: <10103241243.ZM3210@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 23, 17:42, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > Two points. > > First, "a piece" of yellow cable won't work. The lengths were part of the > spec and very important. Having to do with reflections and such (anybody > here still have a TDR??) I've not seen anything about lengths, except of course for the maximum length and multiple-of-2.5m tap separation. I'm told the standard specifically allows for lengths to be joined at intervals which are *not* multiples of 2.5m, and the overall length does not have to be an exact multiple either. > Second, The cable is marked with black stripes. The taps must go on these > stripes. While I have known people who put the transcievers with the N > type connectors between yellow segments and on the ends of yellow segments, > I have never known seen it recommended that you could/should cut the cable > to insert one of these. I fear that after one or two of them, you would > move the spacing between tap locations enough to adversely effect your > network. I've never been aware of a problem with that. Our old Departmental network (installed by my predecessors) consisted of several segments, many of which had lots of N-series transceivers in them. I suppose, though, that when using N-series transceivers, it might make some sense to chop out a small piece of coax rather than just cutting it. I don't have a copy of the standard, and I don't know if it specifies vampire taps rather than the "taps" with N-connectors (which I dare say are more properly called "tees") but I do know that it specifically allows a segment to be made up of sections of cable joined with N-connectors, and that simple joins do not have to be at multiples of 2.5m. Admittedly, good practice was to use the same cable (ideally from the same drum) for each piece, to prevent small impedance mismatches. To do the maths, I find that the velocity factor for RG8/11U is 0.78, the standard value for c (velocity of light in vacuo) is 2.998 x 10^8 ms^-2, and the nominal frequency used for Ethernet is 10MHz, or 10^7 Hz. So one cycle of the waveform occupies 0.78 x 2.998 x 10 m, which is 23.38 metres[1]. That sounds about right; that would mean about 21 cycles over a 500m length. But there's no obvious relationship between 23.something metres and the 2.5 metre separation distance, it's about 1/9th. From that, I can't believe that a small deviation in separation distances is going to make a significant difference. Unless someone can correct my assumptions, of course! [1] Nitpickers might point out that my figure for the velocity factor is less accurate than the 4 significant figures I used for c. So if I take extremes (still within the Ethernet spec) at 0.77 and 0.80, the results would be 23m and 24m respectively. > This is, of course, assuming a production network and not two machines. > But then. if all you had were two or three machines, a couple hundred > feet of yellow cable seems pretty silly. Unless they're a long way apart, or you're doing it for demonstration/nostalgic/"because it's there" purposes :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Mar 24 08:44:41 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <10103241243.ZM3210@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 23, 17:42, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > Two points. > > > > First, "a piece" of yellow cable won't work. The lengths were part of > the > > spec and very important. Having to do with reflections and such (anybody > > here still have a TDR??) > > I've not seen anything about lengths, except of course for the maximum > length and multiple-of-2.5m tap separation. I'm told the standard > specifically allows for lengths to be joined at intervals which are *not* > multiples of 2.5m, and the overall length does not have to be an exact > multiple either. Well, I could be wrong, but back in the days when I actually did this stuff for real I know I never saw yellow cable sold in bulk. Only in fixed lengths. One would hardly expect they did this if there was no reason for it. I doubt I still have any catalogs from those days to look at. In any case, I doubt anyone is going to do a real network today with an really long sections of yellow cable. > > > Second, The cable is marked with black stripes. The taps must go on > these > > stripes. While I have known people who put the transcievers with the N > > type connectors between yellow segments and on the ends of yellow > segments, > > I have never known seen it recommended that you could/should cut the > cable > > to insert one of these. I fear that after one or two of them, you would > > move the spacing between tap locations enough to adversely effect your > > network. > > I've never been aware of a problem with that. Our old Departmental network > (installed by my predecessors) consisted of several segments, many of which > had lots of N-series transceivers in them. I suppose, though, that when > using N-series transceivers, it might make some sense to chop out a small > piece of coax rather than just cutting it. Boy, that sounds scary. But then, what you see in practice does not always reflect good practice. In the early days of ethernet, all kinds of strange (and even dangerous) things were done. Like grounding both ends of the yellow cable (no, you are not supposed to do that!!) Or thin-net installations with a length of RG58 between the T-connector and the transciever. > > Unless someone can correct my assumptions, of course! > It has really been a long time since I did my last yellow cable installation. It was long enough to be close to the maximum and neither fun to install or maintain. It had dozens of vampire tap transcievers and was aloso connected a repeater that supported thin-net segments. Before it went away, it had numerous twisted-pair (not 10BaseT, this was before the standard caem into being, Synoptics Lattisnet) segments as well. Somehow, I don't miss that work much. > > This is, of course, assuming a production network and not two machines. > > But then. if all you had were two or three machines, a couple hundred > > feet of yellow cable seems pretty silly. > > Unless they're a long way apart, or you're doing it for > demonstration/nostalgic/"because it's there" purposes :-) > I can see doing for demonstration purposes, but I would bet people would be more impressed if it was fiber. That's what I use small demos. By the way, while I am serious about taking any PDP donations, this ethernet stuff I have is really free to anyone who want's to pick it up. And I may be able to find stuff (like vampire taps) at work as although it is all inactive, I doubt that the yellow cable has been removed from the ceiling and wiring closets. Who knows, maybe they would even be glad to have the yellow cable pulled out too. It's a pretty long run (the length and height of the building) in two sections. Anybody interested?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 24 09:15:34 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: <359.483T2700T4846241optimus@canit.se> References: <359.483T2700T4846241optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > >Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". Now, I >>don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please explain to me how >>the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the imagination, win the prize in >>the "least expandable" category???? > >Because it hasn't got any expansion ports? But it does...the port on the rear that the 16k RAM pack plugs up to. Printers and all plugged up to that edge connector. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Mar 24 10:35:25 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: <359.483T2700T4846241optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 24, 1 08:04:54 am" Message-ID: <200103241635.IAA10706@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". Now, I > >don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please explain to me how > >the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the imagination, win the prize in > >the "least expandable" category???? > > Because it hasn't got any expansion ports? No, it does; there's the "cartridge" port where the RAM expansion connects. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Life isn't fair. But having the root password helps. ----------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 24 12:22:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) Message-ID: <009f01c0b490$4f003d80$b7799a8d@ajp166> From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) >I've written one for DOS that needs some tweaking still... I'll cut >loose the source code if someone wants to fix it up. Basically, it >sometimes gets out of sync and you have to power down the 750 and >restart the PC to get it back working... You need to acknowledge that INIT from the host (750 or pdp11) can force the tu-58 back to initial status. on the real tu58 thats a break char and the resulting Framing Error from the Uart causes a TRAP interrupt (higest priority nonmaskable interrupt) on the 8085. A PC would have to sense a Framing Error (Character with no stop bit for at lest two character times) and force the code back to the starting point where RSP is restarted. I have prints and manuals plus some of the designers notes from by days as a Digit. Back when they were easy to find and a cheap way to put 512k of block oriented storage on a serial port of PDP-11 systems. I also have a few that used a parallel IO (used only for PDT11/130) that are otherwise identical. >THANKS Allison! I bought two from Keyways, Inc. for $40 + shipping... >For that price, I could have bought 20' of Tygon tubing... Live and >learn... For 40$ that should have been 80ft of tygon and at roughly .300 inches of it per roller that would be enough for a couple of Sagans of them. from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 23, 1 10:15:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010324/9baf9f3a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 24 12:40:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: <359.483T2700T4846241optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 24, 1 08:04:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 445 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010324/df19321f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 24 12:46:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <10103241243.ZM3210@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 24, 1 12:43:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2283 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010324/e0ba21ba/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sat Mar 24 09:25:41 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Free DEC docs and equipment, Washington DC area Message-ID: <010324102541.22400646@trailing-edge.com> OK folks, time to clear out more of the basement. First of all, all of the below is *FREE*. But there is one gotcha: if you want any of the documentation, you must haul away some hardware too. No ifs, ands, ors, or buts about this. No shipping, no holding, first-come, first-served. Pick-up only, I'm literally a feet away from the Washington DC Beltway (495). Now, the docs, all in original shrinkwrap: KA660 CPU Module Technical Manual (EK-KA660-TM.001) 660QH Pedestal System Illustrated Parts Breakdown KA660 CPU System Maintenance (EK-398AA-MM.001) MS650-AF/BF/BH/BJ MOS Memory Option VMS Installation and Operations: VAXstation I, II, II/GPX and Microvax I, II DECVoice Software Reference Manual Additionally, not in the original shrinkwrap: A big box full of DEC Rainbow and Pro 350/380 binder boxes, some with software. And the hardware: Two BA11 10.5" high Unibus chassis, with power supplies and backplanes. (Weight 60-70 lbs). At least one spare power supply for the above chassis. A couple of Unibus backplanes in various conditions. A 4-foot high tape hanging rack for 9-tracks. Nice wood trim. A whole bunch of other stuff that I could probably get rid of right now but don't have the heart to commit to. If you're here with a truck and ask me about it, though, it's probably yours. If you're interested, please send an E-mail to "shoppa@trailing-edge.com". Pick up will have to be on the weekend or possibly a near-future weeknight. Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Mar 24 13:32:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? In-Reply-To: RE: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? (Gooijen H) References: Message-ID: <15036.63063.754671.496499@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 23, Gooijen H wrote: > If Sellam (or anybody else) has some 2,4 Gbyte space available > I am willing to make a copy of the 5 CD's, and share the data > with everybody on this fine list. I have LARGE amounts of disk space available, and decent bandwidth (2.3mbps, soon to be 5mbps hopefully)...I'd love to host this stuff. -Dave McGuire From jason at rhubarb.arl.qwestip.net Sat Mar 24 14:14:09 2001 From: jason at rhubarb.arl.qwestip.net (Jason Duerstock) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... In-Reply-To: <3ABC23C6.CA3BF3EB@atari-history.com> Message-ID: Count me in too please. :) Jason On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > Well, > > About 5-6 more people have jumped onboard, now we're just waiting to hear > back from the guy who has the stuff, no answer to the email sent to him yet, > will keep everyone posted as soon as I get a reply I will post to the > maillist and we can hopefully start to divy all this stuff up and get it to > some good homes. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 24 16:32:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Bill Gunshannon "Re: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems)" (Mar 24, 9:44) References: Message-ID: <10103242232.ZM3430@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 24, 9:44, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I've not seen anything about lengths, except of course for the maximum > > length and multiple-of-2.5m tap separation. I'm told the standard > > specifically allows for lengths to be joined at intervals which are *not* > > multiples of 2.5m, and the overall length does not have to be an exact > > multiple either. > > Well, I could be wrong, but back in the days when I actually did this > stuff for real I know I never saw yellow cable sold in bulk. Only in > fixed lengths. As far as I've seen, it's always been available in 100m and 500m drums -- which of course happen to be multiples of 2.5m -- but I'm sure that's just because they're nice round numbers. Most cable is sold in those quantities. One of my catalogues does list 10,20,30, and 40m lengths fitted with N-connectors, but again I'm sure that's just because they're round numbers. > One would hardly expect they did this if there was no > reason for it. I doubt I still have any catalogs from those days to > look at. In any case, I doubt anyone is going to do a real network today > with an really long sections of yellow cable. > > I've never been aware of a problem with that. Our old Departmental network > > (installed by my predecessors) consisted of several segments, many of which > > had lots of N-series transceivers in them. I suppose, though, that when > > using N-series transceivers, it might make some sense to chop out a small > > piece of coax rather than just cutting it. > > Boy, that sounds scary. But then, what you see in practice does not > always reflect good practice. Agreed, but that was *common* practice. > In the early days of ethernet, all kinds > of strange (and even dangerous) things were done. Like grounding both > ends of the yellow cable (no, you are not supposed to do that!!) Yup, I know! I saw what hapenned when someone tried that :-) It did *not* do anything any good at all! I also know what can happen when the unwary (in this case, me) touch the screen while holding on to a locally-earthed cabinet :-) > Or thin-net installations with a length of RG58 between the T-connector > and the transciever. I know someone who tried that, too. It worked for a couple of short tees, but after that everything fell apart. I know of a few installations which use Safernet and EAD cable to prevent people trying it. > > Unless they're a long way apart, or you're doing it for > > demonstration/nostalgic/"because it's there" purposes :-) > > > I can see doing for demonstration purposes, but I would bet people would > be more impressed if it was fiber. That's what I use small demos. I have a pair of FOIRL transceivers and some fibre for exactly that, but people still are interested to see real Ethernet. > And I may be able to find stuff (like vampire taps) at work as > although it is all inactive, I doubt that the yellow cable has been > removed from the ceiling and wiring closets. Who knows, maybe they > would even be glad to have the yellow cable pulled out too. It's a > pretty long run (the length and height of the building) in two sections. I'd like to get a vampire tap for my collection -- all of ours were N-series, at least all the ones I've found. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 06:46:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1198.483T1650T8265475optimus@canit.se> Billy D'Augustine skrev: >I was once a big Atari fan. I had a TT030, and a Falcon030. I purchased the >Falcon brand-new when Atari still was making computers (actually the Falcon >was their last hoorah, and it "flopped"), from a semi-local dealer, what? >1993? What a wonderful machine this was - even by today's standards. I think >the only thing that caused them to flub in the market was the 16MHz '030. >I'm pretty sure fast '040's were available at that time. Indeed they were, but they weren't all that cheap. Have you seen the photos of the Atari MicroFalcon 040? It only existed as a prototype, but I really like the stylish case, it reminds me of a RiscPC. To add insult to injury, though, the '030 was crippled by a lot of compatiblity glue. >One thing I always (and still) wanted was an STBook, but I understand that >an extremely low quantity of them were made, and seems that most of them >ended up in EU (where Atari had a bigger base than in the US, my >understanding). If I ever get a Notebook, may the ST Book be it! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have the most thorough test guy in the world... I showed him this program and he asked, 'but Rob, what if time runs backward?' From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 06:48:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010314141406.02d569d0@pc> Message-ID: <936.483T1550T8285351optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 10:32 AM 3/14/01 -0800, you wrote: >>On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: >>>Also, I've been told that the Portfolio is what was >>> used by John Conner in 'Terminator 2' when he broke into the ATM and the >>> Cyberdine vault...is this true? >> >>Yes, but you also need the Hollywood Credit Card O' Magic peripheral that >>it was interfaced to that actually allows one to crack the PIN codes. >PIN codes? Magic credit cards and laptops? Why, he just >used a buffer overflow exploit. No need when you could just Winnuke it. I was quite dismayed to discover a crashed Bankomat flaunting a Win95 desktop a while ago. I really don't trust that particular model since then. If only I had carried my camera... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > well, maybe if it contained ChibiChibi-JarJar pairing.. Okay, so now I'm thinking about a threesome between ChibiChibi, Jar-Jar and Pikachu. You bastard. A. Jones From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 07:31:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2136.483T300T8713781optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On 8 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> R. D. Davis skrev: >> I use *NIX and I hate it. I find this whole Linux on a desktop business >Alas, you need help. Not to worry; start up Emacs and type: > M-x doctor > (ESC-x doctor) >;-) :-) :-) First UNIX, then Emacs. Add X and there won't be a single byte left in the system. >> laughable. Why would one want a UNIX system anywhere but locked up in a >> cupboard or on a researcher's workstation? >So that one can have a useful computer system. But not usable. >> I'd never drive a lorry to work, nor do I like the M$ Volvo. The >> Vespa is much nicer for a single person. >Why not drive a lorry to work? Wouldn't you like to drive a big, >shiny, new Ford F550 pickup truck to work? I recon that you're afraid >that your cow-orkers would turn green with envy... let 'em. :-) I really wouldn't, it sucks to much fuel. >What's a Vespa? I've never heard of one, but I wouldn't want to drive >something with a name like that. It's a scooter, silly. >> >Blame the U.S. government for fuel economy regulations that killed off >> >nice cars, not the U.S. auto manufacturers. >> >> Why is that? Isn't petrol cheap enough in the states? >Cheap? Over US$1.50 a gallon is not cheap; it was over US$1.70 >several months ago... it would be reasonably priced, however, if our >dear lame-brained, tax-hungry, common-sense-deprived, politicians >weren't taxing it so heavily. At 12 to 13 miles per gallon on the >highway, such prices have a way of adding up. Perhaps we should just >find a way to bottle the hot-air from politicians' mouths and then >find a way to use it to propel vehicles; then, there would be no real, >or perceived, energy shortage. Gallon? Miles? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 07:38:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <460.483T850T8784795optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>You can see I'm not looking at Honda, Hyraduai, KIA, I'm looking at >>older VWs, older 4 cylinder Chryslers, many Toyota and Nissan. >Think about the little Volvos, last time I drove one I really liked it. There is no such thing as a little Volvo, save for the old 66 and the now- defunct 300 series. They're all huge, really. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 14:56:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Some classic pictures Message-ID: <449.483T1400T13165301optimus@canit.se> In case anyone's interested, we've added some pictures of our new headquarters at http://www.sua.f2s.com/fotografier/. Some pictures of fancy classic equipment, as well as more contemporary junk. The pictures were grabbed with a video camera, though, so the quality is not all that high. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet sua.ath.cx, port 42512. From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 15:08:34 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: COMPUTE! and printing (was: Re: Looking for Compute! Atari ST disks) In-Reply-To: <200103170906.BAA23515@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <852.483T1700T13285165optimus@canit.se> Derek Peschel skrev: >I was thinking about COMPUTE!'s checksum programs and then thinking that >their software was sometimes very good and then rememberng how nice their >magazine looked too. _That_ got me wonderng about the hardware/software >they used to lay out and print their magazines. Does anyone know anything >about that? Or similar systems of the era? The hardware at that time usually consisted of transfers, scalpels and rubber mats. Computers weren't really involved in the layout process until the very end of the eighties, though typesetting and word processing was computerised at an earlier stage. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Georgie beundrade stor?gt sin pappa som med v?ldsamma slag gick l?s p? det stora tr?det. Han badade i svett, och den muskul?sa kroppen bl?nkte i solskenet. Hon ?lskade honom. Lady Georgie, TMS 1983 From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 16:05:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: PS/2 P70 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <903.483T500T13854169optimus@canit.se> Jason McBrien skrev: >Anyone know if there is a NFS that runs under OS/2 <=3? I've got a wide >variety of boxes running on my network (I'm getting to be an expert at >heterogeneous networking :) and my OS/2 box (IBM Server 85) is quickly >depleting it's 450MB hard drive. Right now most of my boxes get their >post-boot disk space from my linux box which services appletalk, samba, and >NFS connections. It would be great to leverage it into my OS/2 box as well.. How about http://www.os2ss.com/archives/hobbes/os2/system/patches/v2.x/nfs20c1.exe ? I haven't tried it myself, since I've only got the non-connect Warp CD. >FYI: My Home Network- >IBM PC Server 85 Running OS/2 Warp 3 Any relation to the PS/2 model 85? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." -- m3000 From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 16:35:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <20010319111247Z432946-17404+29@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <2190.483T300T14153997optimus@canit.se> Mark Green skrev: >> ?IO 5/rzl/vmunix (bb rd) >Your system is trying to boot Ultrix (the dec version of Unix) and >it can't find the kernel. There are two common reasons for this. >First, there isn't a disk on your system, or the disk with Ultrix >is missing. It wasn't uncommon for the 5000/200 workstations to >not have an internal disk, they quite often had a second chassis >with disk and/or TK50 tape. The other possibility is the version >of Ultrix on your disk is corrupt. Were there any 5000/200s with internal disks? Mine hasn't got any internal SCSI connector, nor any mounting point. It's quite bizarre, though, since it's the biggest case in my entire collection. >First check to see if there is a disk (open up the box, take >a look). Also check what your system thinks is attached to it. >There is a command for this that you can enter at the >> prompt. >I don't remember the name now, but type help at the >> prompt >at it should tell you. This will tell you the devices attached >to the SCSI interface so you can determine whether it is looking >at the right drive. You could always netboot it. Try "boot 6/tftp", assuming you've got some kind of server on the network with a bootpd or dhcpd as well as a tftpd. >It will have a keyboard connector, it will probably look like a RJ11 >phone jack if I remember correctly. There should also be a video >connector on the back. The video connector has 3 pins, its doesn't >look like a VGA connector, or any other standard video connector. Define "standard"? To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any standard video connector, save perhaps for SCART. >The three pins are R,G,B with I believe sync on G. You should be >able to connect these to a VGA monitor. Assuming it supports sync on green and the correct frequencies. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Also,what would a game about pimps be without Pimp Gear(tm)? As you move up in the world,you'll be able to buy new clothes,upgrade your car,and upgrade your appearance. Girls that wouldn't give you the time of day before might be swayed more easily when you've got some cash to throw around. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From elvey at hal.com Sat Mar 24 17:07:13 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Mar 23, 17:42, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > > > > Two points. > > > > > > First, "a piece" of yellow cable won't work. The lengths were part of > > the > > > spec and very important. Having to do with reflections and such (anybody > > > here still have a TDR??) > > > > I've not seen anything about lengths, except of course for the maximum > > length and multiple-of-2.5m tap separation. I'm told the standard > > specifically allows for lengths to be joined at intervals which are *not* > > multiples of 2.5m, and the overall length does not have to be an exact > > multiple either. > > Correct (I've read the standard). And the terminators don't have to be a > multiple of 2.5m from the tranceiver postiion either. > Hi I haven't been following this thread as close as I should. I was working at Intel during the period when ether net was just being defined. The reason for the 2.5m spacing was to insure that any collision was detected by all of the unit on the wire. The idea was that the pulses would be exactly overlapped. This was also the reason for the maximum length without repeaters. The packet size was such that any collision was sure to be detected, regardless of where one was along the cable. It doesn't make any difference where the end terminations are placed but both ends need to be terminated. Dwight From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 24 12:50:35 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <460.483T850T8784795optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <20010324235021.XSSQ24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: 24 Mar 2001 14:38:17 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! > To: "Mike Ford" > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Mike Ford skrev: > > >>You can see I'm not looking at Honda, Hyraduai, KIA, I'm looking at > >>older VWs, older 4 cylinder Chryslers, many Toyota and Nissan. > > >Think about the little Volvos, last time I drove one I really liked it. > > There is no such thing as a little Volvo, save for the old 66 and the now- > defunct 300 series. They're all huge, really. Not to leave at that, other reasons, volvos are not *that* common here (kingston, ontario, canada) and most were mostly mid to large types and very expensive. Rode in one once driven by a person. Disliked it right away, too different and seems designed to limit vision especially for small persons, performance seems odd for that wagon. Cheers, Wizard > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 24 17:41:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: from "Dwight Elvey" at Mar 24, 1 03:07:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 605 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010324/5b25c8dd/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 24 13:00:30 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: References: from "Dwight Elvey" at Mar 24, 1 03:07:13 pm Message-ID: <20010325000017.ZHCK22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:41:03 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Hi > > I haven't been following this thread as close as I should. > > I was working at Intel during the period when ether net was just > > being defined. The reason for the 2.5m spacing was to insure that > > any collision was detected by all of the unit on the wire. > > The idea was that the pulses would be exactly overlapped. This was > > In that case, surely the correct spacing of transceivers would depend on > the velocity factor of the cable. And while the stnadard specifies the > spacing (2.5m +/- 5cm IIRC), it doesn't specify the velocity factor > (other than it must be greater than 0.77 IIRC). I recall that in musical stuff and in wirings often these waves travelling in any tube or wirings tend to be standing waves that why that marking is where the amptitudes is greatest. Same with in engines when designing intake and exhaust systems to assist air movement with least effort due to the reflections and standing waves. That's bit of my recollections from physics in school and from newsgroups readings. Cheers, Wizard > > -tony From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 24 18:32:17 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Dwight Elvey "Re: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems)" (Mar 24, 15:07) References: Message-ID: <10103250032.ZM3542@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 24, 15:07, Dwight Elvey wrote: > I was working at Intel during the period when ether net was just > being defined. The reason for the 2.5m spacing was to insure that > any collision was detected by all of the unit on the wire. > The idea was that the pulses would be exactly overlapped. As Tony has already pointed out, that can't be completely true, because it would depend on the velocity factor of the cable, and the standard does indeed specify only a minimum of 0.77 for that. Typical values for thick ether are 0.78-0.8, which gives quite a variation. In addition, it would require that pulses from two stations be in sync, which is unlikely since there's no master clock. > This was > also the reason for the maximum length without repeaters. The > packet size was such that any collision was sure to be detected, > regardless of where one was along the cable. Actually, the minimum packet size is what determines the maximum total length *including* repeaters. The maximum length *without* a repeater is determined by the signal losses. > It doesn't make any difference where the end terminations are > placed but both ends need to be terminated. That's my understanding, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 24 18:34:54 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >And it's a _standard_. I can use the same AUI transceiver on a PC, a >PERQ, a PDP11, a Xerox, etc. In fact one of my major moans about Apple is >that they seem to never stick to standards.... Most of the time, but not always, Apple's deviation from standards was done in the attempt to build a better mouse trap, not just to ignore standards. Sometimes they were right, sometimes wrong. Often, they were early adopters who helped get a market going, such as with both USB and Firewire. Even Intel has recently announced that they were moving to the IEEE-1394 standard, which Apple has been using, vice the one they had been pushing. Current Mac's are full of standard parts and ports though and oftentimes can even use PC PCI boards with the appropriate drivers. Certainly they stick to standards more than say, Microsoft, who tossed out every known data format standard in it's Office products, not because they came up with something better but because it was proprietary to them? How else can you explain the fact that Access can't open dBase files directly while Excel can? >I'll agree with that. I get annoyed when I see an ethernet card that >doesn't have an AUI connector. I don't care if it has a built-in >transceiver _as well_, but I want to be able to use my own tranceiver if >necessaary. And to me, that's the whole name of the game...options and choices. Anyone that tries to stronghold me into using only their products will quickly find that I will use none of their products. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 24 18:46:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 24, 1 07:34:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1177 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010325/42c1920b/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Mar 24 17:54:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Free DEC docs and equipment, Washington DC area In-Reply-To: <010324102541.22400646@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > DECVoice Software Reference Manual What's DECVoice? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 24 19:28:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >That DB25 SCSI port, for example (which IMHO doesn't have enough ground >pins) rather than a 50 pin connector. Or those infernal Mac serial ports >(I am not sure what they really are, they're not RS232, RS422 or RS423). >Or the early Mac floppy drives -- I am thinking of things like the 800K >DS drive. It's undoubtedly a clever design, but I wonder how many users >would have prefered to be able to exchange floppies with people who used >other types of computer, rather than being able to fit 10% more data on >the disk. Or Nubus, which has a number of incompatibilities with 'real' >Nubus. You'll have to remember though that 720k/1.4meg 3-1/2" floppy drives weren't common in the PC world until after IBM introduced the PS/2 line. That's when the PC's jumped onto the 3-1/2" bandwagon..after the Atari, Amiga, and Apple machines had been using them for at least a couple of years. When both the original Mac and the Lisa began using the Sony 400k 3-1/2" there wasn't a need to consider making it compatible format-wise with anyone else because they were some of the first machines to use the form-factor. As for both the SCSI connector and the serial ports, the main reason I can see for Apple doing it the way they did was due to space constraints on the rear of the compact form-factor Mac's. There just wasn't enough room physically to use the larger connectors and fit everything they wanted to on the rear of the machine. Considering the small size of the machine, there's an amazing amount of I/O coming off the rear of the compact Mac's, especially the ones such as the Color Classic that can even have a PDS card installed. Certainly there weren't many machines outside of high-end servers and such using SCSI in 1985 anyway. The Mac's, along with 3rd-party Zorro-II boards for the Amiga 2000, were some of the first systems geared for home use that utilized SCSI and both used the same DB25 connector. Even the Amiga 3000 used the DB25 SCSI connector as did quite a few early ISA SCSI boards. Concerning the NUBUS design, other than the info I've seen posted on this list concerning it's use in other machines, I don't know enough about it to comment. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 24 19:24:58 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) Message-ID: <002801c0b4cb$c71496f0$b7799a8d@ajp166> From: jpero@sympatico.ca > > I haven't been following this thread as close as I should. > > I was working at Intel during the period when ether net was just > > being defined. The reason for the 2.5m spacing was to insure that > > any collision was detected by all of the unit on the wire. > > The idea was that the pulses would be exactly overlapped. This was > > In that case, surely the correct spacing of transceivers would depend on > the velocity factor of the cable. And while the stnadard specifies the > spacing (2.5m +/- 5cm IIRC), it doesn't specify the velocity factor > (other than it must be greater than 0.77 IIRC). I recall that in musical stuff and in wirings often these waves travelling in any tube or wirings tend to be standing waves that why that marking is where the amptitudes is greatest. Standing waves in this case would be a reflection of poor termination and cause errors. The measure was to inustre that using the resolution of the system you could resolve to half the distance of a tap (1.25 meters or less than 5ns). The velocity factor of the specified cable doesnt vary much or at least not much if it's in spec. FYI yellow pipe is very good cable. I could use 100ft of it right now. Allison From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 24 19:45:17 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Some classic pictures References: <449.483T1400T13165301optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002a01c0b4cd$3f7d5e50$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Classic computing" Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: Some classic pictures > In case anyone's interested, we've added some pictures of our new headquarters > at http://www.sua.f2s.com/fotografier/. Some pictures of fancy classic > equipment, as well as more contemporary junk. The pictures were grabbed with a > video camera, though, so the quality is not all that high. Speaking of pictures, does anyone have pictures of old machines that I can use for my site? It seems that I'll have to wait a while longer to get my hands on a camera to take them myself. Need old apples, MACs, sparc, Next, VAX, atari, commodore, compac luggables, IBM, amiga, and a telxon. Thanks From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Mar 24 20:51:32 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: <002801c0b4cb$c71496f0$b7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > The velocity factor of the specified cable doesnt vary much > or at least not much if it's in spec. FYI yellow pipe is very good > cable. Actually, as coax for RF purposes, it's junk. It is the lossiest of all the RG8's and is still within spec when lossier than even other samples of the same cable manufactured for non-networking uses. If it weren't so lossy, it would be connected to one of my antennae right now. > I could use 100ft of it right now. It's sitting here waiting for someone to pick it up!! bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 24 20:25:38 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: Adding Fibre to network diet In-Reply-To: References: <10103241243.ZM3210@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 24, 1 12:43:49 pm Message-ID: I was at Micro Center last night (in So Cal) and they had a stack of grey flip top bins with a 99 cent cable sale. Since I have thousands of cables at home I pawed through it to the bottom of the four bins on top and peeked into one of the bins below. Lots of AC power cords, but I did pull out about a 20' section of some kind of fibre. Since I know a have a AUI FDDI type mau's I am guessing putting a section of fibre in my ethernet network is fairly practical. Any suggestions on how to do it? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 24 20:38:36 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: <460.483T850T8784795optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>Think about the little Volvos, last time I drove one I really liked it. > >There is no such thing as a little Volvo, save for the old 66 and the now- >defunct 300 series. They're all huge, really. We like this little one. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 24 21:02:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 24, 1 07:34:54 pm Message-ID: >> Most of the time, but not always, Apple's deviation from >> standards was done in the attempt to build a better mouse trap, not >> just to ignore standards. Sometimes they were right, sometimes > >In some cases, yes, but often it appears they did it for 'production >reasons' rather than technical superiority. Or maybe just to force you to >buy Apple peripherals. > >That DB25 SCSI port, for example (which IMHO doesn't have enough ground >pins) rather than a 50 pin connector. Or those infernal Mac serial ports >(I am not sure what they really are, they're not RS232, RS422 or RS423). I think in general Apple was just playing the good fisherman, setting the hook as deeply and firmly as possible. That sometimes the proprietary design offered some benefits was not the main focus, locking in the customer was always Jobs basic plan. The Apple II floppy was incredibly ingenious, and a great value, the Mac floppy the biggest ripoff this side of mil/nasa. That stinking floppy drive was $170 from Apple until it was discontinued, and nothing but the Apple unit will work in a mac. PCI slots were the straw that annoyed this camel beyond anything else. A huge portion of the reason I bought a PCI mac was compatibility with a standard after many years of suffering nubus price gouging and neglect. But NO, it isn't freaking compatible with anything PC PCI, and over the stinking last decade I doubt if more than a TINY percentage of PCI cards ever got mac drivers (mostly in ethernet, still less than 25% even in that sector). No I did not enjoy paying more for a rebadged Voodoo2 card than the Voodoo3 cost either just for the Mac driver. (yes I know unsupported Voodoo3 drivers for the mac were pretty good). Phoo, never start typing with a sore back. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 24 21:54:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:24 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 24, 1 07:34:54 pm Message-ID: >The Apple II floppy was incredibly ingenious, and a great value, the Mac >floppy the biggest ripoff this side of mil/nasa. That stinking floppy drive >was $170 from Apple until it was discontinued, and nothing but the Apple >unit will work in a mac. Given how 'dumb' the PC floppy is though, it's easy to see why you couldn't just pop one into the Mac. Mac floppies, like Amiga floppies, automatically update the OS upon insertion or removal of a disk. Mac floppies also are under OS control for ejecting the disks automatically. Obviously there are considerable differences between the two platforms then as far as the floppy drives are concerned, which is why one can't just pop a PC drive into an Amiga either. Not all platforms use passive components that require user intervention at all times. >PCI slots were the straw that annoyed this camel beyond anything else. A >huge portion of the reason I bought a PCI mac was compatibility with a >standard after many years of suffering nubus price gouging and neglect. But >NO, it isn't freaking compatible with anything PC PCI, and over the Apple can't be blamed for the lack of drivers for various cards though. I have used any number of PC PCI boards in my PCI Mac's, including USB, Firewire and video boards. The slots themselves are compliant with the PCI standard. It's just a matter of lacking 3rd party drivers. Creative Labs is releasing a Mac version of it's SB Live, NVidia has done Mac versions of it's Geoforce boards, 3Dfx did Mac versions of it's Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 boards just before they went under, and Adaptec has done Mac versions of many of it's SCSI boards. Apple isn't a perfect company but most of the designs are solid and they aren't afraid of taking chances to try to advance the technology, or occasionally just to make the sale. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 24 21:46:51 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) Message-ID: <004801c0b4df$e343c530$b7799a8d@ajp166> From: Bill Gunshannon > >Actually, as coax for RF purposes, it's junk. It is the lossiest of It's not all that bad but my use would be for a colinear array and lossy cable does work ok there even at uhf. >it weren't so lossy, it would be connected to one of my antennae right >now. Still beats RG58A/u though 50ohm .500 hardline is a prefered wire. Allison From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 24 17:30:48 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010325043035.CGHI22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:54:01 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: AAUI > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >The Apple II floppy was incredibly ingenious, and a great value, the Mac > >floppy the biggest ripoff this side of mil/nasa. That stinking floppy drive > >was $170 from Apple until it was discontinued, and nothing but the Apple > >unit will work in a mac. Apple FDs very cleverly designed on the cheap and turns around charging a leg and arm for it. Thanks alot, that's why I didn't get FDs w/ apple II and sick mono monitor (fixed it, just a little tiny cap) when I was given one years ago. :-P Not too far from that truth for any pc (on the cheap and simplest bunch of ttls and two power IC for stepper and motor). FDs in early days till '93's. Not so with all Mac floppy drives. It has microcontroller on it, this is reason Mac didn't poll it as much. Mac FD does inform OS when floppy is inserted. Also more safer because you must "close" the floppy in order to eject it, also more automatic when install software or swapping disks, also importantly it is quality built and runs quiet. I rather much like these features. The closest thing on PC is cdrom drives. Lockable by software and ejectable on command by software. But on PC is not as seamless as Mac drive stuff does. Snip! > which is why one can't just pop a PC drive into an Amiga either. Not > all platforms use passive components that require user intervention > at all times. Amiga FDs is more closer to PC FDs with minor mods to it, even pinouts matches. > Apple can't be blamed for the lack of drivers for various > cards though. I have used any number of PC PCI boards in my PCI > Mac's, including USB, Firewire and video boards. The slots > themselves are compliant with the PCI standard. It's just a matter > of lacking 3rd party drivers. Snip! > Apple isn't a perfect company but most of the designs are > solid and they aren't afraid of taking chances to try to advance the > technology, or occasionally just to make the sale. True. No matter how annoying apple did to their hardware over the years, I noticed a difference: quality and recalls, sometimes refunds if seriously required. Yes, there is some bad quality in some, mostly in monitors and few rare machines over the years, overally that's minor, choose another better monitor, change hd drives. etc. Drop few files to extend the mac for software and hardware. Add or remove hardware, Easy, I wish that was that way on peecees but not very totally, windows's pnp steps on pnp bios many times. The computer users and quality parts is the difference to upkeep and reliablity of their computers. And some bonus, I can buy used Macs and load very useful OS of some version choices I can put on. 608, 7.0.1 w update, 7.5.5, drive the pc monitors w/ homemade adapter cable. Many older odd ones like 7.1 and newer OSes can be had direct from apple for under 100 dollars. Not bad. Cheers, Wizard > Jeff From donm at cts.com Sat Mar 24 22:39:46 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: And someone has one... Re: Virus Alert !!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > We like this little one. And they are probably the only manufacturer in the world who made a station wagon that is better looking than their sedan! - don From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Mar 25 23:08:20 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Who can tell me more about this really weird Z80 Canadian built computer... Message-ID: <009b01c0b5b2$c6eb7620$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi Well today was kinda slow I guess....finds: 1 fully equipped C128 -1541 II and both P.S.s...$10 1 1084S monitor $5 (cant pass them up at that price even if I have about 10 of these...) This is a "weird" (I refuse to use L@@K RARE! because of its over use on ebay) one: 1 AES 7100 Office System. Obviously a Z80 machine from the early 1980s. >From AES a Montreal, Canada company (local stuff!) 1 know of one other non-active collector (still collecting?) who has one. He put up photos so Ill post the URL for there so you can have a look at it and maybe tell me more about this thing: http://www.total.net/~hrothgar/museum/AES7100/ Its the exact same computer. Mine is in terrific shape but I dont have the manuals like this guy does. I do have 2 original boot disks that I was told will boot (to what?) the machine....have not tried it yet... These are "hard sectored" 5 1/4 disks...eeesh...and I only have the 2 original ones...ooooh The look of this computer is very "Space 1999ish" if you ask me... Perhaps this person has already posted here about this machine but I taught I would try again and maybe perhaps something new will come up... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/80a98be9/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Mar 24 23:27:54 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Slapping a BSD file system on a disk ... Message-ID: <200103250527.VAA13308@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Any way I can put a BSD filesystem on a floppy from the Sun boot monitor? *hoping* -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You've got to have a gimmick if your band sucks. -- Gary Giddens ----------- From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Mar 25 01:31:10 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <2190.483T300T14153997optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 24, 2001 11:35:06 pm" Message-ID: <20010325073111Z434493-2706+43@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > Were there any 5000/200s with internal disks? Mine hasn't got any internal > SCSI connector, nor any mounting point. It's quite bizarre, though, since it's > the biggest case in my entire collection. > I seem to recall that one of my 5000/200s at one point had an internal SCSI device. I suspect it was a TK50, but I'm not sure. We reconfigured the workstations soon after receiving them, and I think all the SCSI devices were placed in external boxes at that point. This made it easier to share devices, and have most of the file systems up when a workstation crashed. > >First check to see if there is a disk (open up the box, take > >a look). Also check what your system thinks is attached to it. > >There is a command for this that you can enter at the >> prompt. > >I don't remember the name now, but type help at the >> prompt > >at it should tell you. This will tell you the devices attached > >to the SCSI interface so you can determine whether it is looking > >at the right drive. > > You could always netboot it. Try "boot 6/tftp", assuming you've got some kind > of server on the network with a bootpd or dhcpd as well as a tftpd. > > >It will have a keyboard connector, it will probably look like a RJ11 > >phone jack if I remember correctly. There should also be a video > >connector on the back. The video connector has 3 pins, its doesn't > >look like a VGA connector, or any other standard video connector. > > Define "standard"? To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any > standard video connector, save perhaps for SCART. By standard I meant something that had been used elsewhere. If you have never seen this connector before, there is a good chance that you wouldn't guess its a video connector. Standard connectors I associate with video are VGA, 13W3 and BNC, this looks like none of them. > > >The three pins are R,G,B with I believe sync on G. You should be > >able to connect these to a VGA monitor. > > Assuming it supports sync on green and the correct frequencies. > > -- > If I remember correctly, the 5000 line had relatively standard video frequencies, it was the monitors that were fixed frquency and couldn't be switched between different models. I suspect it is either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, it will depend upon the graphics option that's installed. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Mar 25 01:31:09 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 24, 1 07:34:54 pm Message-ID: > Apple can't be blamed for the lack of drivers for various >cards though. I have used any number of PC PCI boards in my PCI >Mac's, including USB, Firewire and video boards. The slots >themselves are compliant with the PCI standard. It's just a matter >of lacking 3rd party drivers. Creative Labs is releasing a Mac >version of it's SB Live, NVidia has done Mac versions of it's >Geoforce boards, 3Dfx did Mac versions of it's Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 >boards just before they went under, and Adaptec has done Mac versions >of many of it's SCSI boards. My back still hurts, so I'll keep typing.... Sure I can blame Apple for the lack of drivers, if stinking Apple wrote a "generic" driver or even published a stable API for its non standard PCI byte swapped version of PCI then plenty of cards would have worked on the mac. As it was, ONLY a handfull of often third parties ever bothered to write a mac driver for a PC PCI card, and mac users paid through the nose for those items. Firewire was always an Apple first product, my guess is that some PC products may have Apple ancestry in the driver code or at least high level design. Sort of true for USB, except in the PC world about half the cards meet the open standard that is what Apple drivers recognize, and half don't and hence won't work with Apple drivers (nobody "really" AFAIK makes a Apple specific USB driver). PCI Video cards I follow pretty closely, and MAYBE a total of 10 cards work with macs, with half of those being somewhat generic PC PCI cards. Not moving closer to the AGP PC standard was killing Apple video performance, so maybe the latest macs have better compatibility, I don't know the details of that however. Oh happy day, we get the two year old most overpriced PC sound card, without all the features, finally for the mac. ************** I have fun with old macs, I currently use a Starmax for daily stuff, but I am moving to daily PC use because I am sick of browsers on the mac that don't work. In a word, javascript, love it hate, heck I don't even know exactly what it is, but it doesn't work on mac browsers and that means many pages I want to access I can't. Enough for me, tomorrow, Sun 3/25 is the ACP swapmeet in Santa Ana, CA and I want to be there at 7 am. From jerryjh at imt.net Sun Mar 25 02:11:51 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Batteries for Sharp PC-45XX Still Sold Message-ID: <200103250811.BAA04490@cu.imt.net> A few weeks ago, I requested information about a battery for my Sharp PC-4502 (a portable PC from the mid to late 1980s), yet received no replies. The original batteries made for the Sharp PC-45XXs were from Yuasa, which no longer makes them. The main problem with this battery is its odd shape; other batteries have similar specifications, but will not fit inside this portable PC. Just as I was about to give up, I simply did a Yahoo search on Sharp batteries and the PC-4502 and found a source! If anyone needs a battery for these machines, go to The Raymond Sarrio Co. at http://www.sarrio.com -- and if you specifically need a battery for a Sharp PC-45XX like mine, go to this site: http://www.sarrio.com/sarrio/laptopsh2sy.html Phone: (800)413-1129 FAX: (508)355-8261 I bought the battery for only $49.00, including free 3-day air mail! (They used to cost around $75.00.) The AC adaptors are also listed alongside their batteries, in case you need one of those, too. These folks can also make a lot of batteries, if for some reason they don't have your exact make. So there *is* still hope for old machines when you least expect it. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 25 05:37:40 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Adding Fibre to network diet In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "Adding Fibre to network diet" (Mar 24, 18:25) References: <10103241243.ZM3210@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 24 1 12:43:49 pm Message-ID: <10103251237.ZM3895@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 24, 18:25, Mike Ford wrote: > I was at Micro Center last night (in So Cal) and they had a stack of grey > flip top bins with a 99 cent cable sale. Since I have thousands of cables > at home I pawed through it to the bottom of the four bins on top and peeked > into one of the bins below. Lots of AC power cords, but I did pull out > about a 20' section of some kind of fibre. Since I know a have a AUI FDDI > type mau's I am guessing putting a section of fibre in my ethernet network > is fairly practical. Any suggestions on how to do it? FDDI is a ring system, not point to point like FOIRL and 10baseFL, and it's *not* Ethernet. It uses different protocols. I can't remember if you can have a ring as small as 2 nodes, but I don't see why not. Anyone? What kind of fibre it is (backbone or patch lead; 50/125 or 62/125 multimode or single mode)? Is the fibre terminated with suitable connectors? If not, it won't be cheap to get connectors put on the ends. Is it damaged (rudementary test by shining a bright light down it, though that will only tell you if it's really badly damaged, it won't tell you much else about losses). IIRC, FDDI uses lasers rather than LEDs (FOIRL and 10baseFL use LEDs) so don't look into them! If your MAUs really are FDDI, take a look at the FDDI FAQ at http://www.cicese.mx/~aarmenta/frames/redes/fddi/FDDIFAQ.html and the FDDI tutorial at http://www.iol.unh.edu/training/fddi/htmls/index.html. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Mar 25 05:20:31 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems)" (Mar 24, 20:24) References: <002801c0b4cb$c71496f0$b7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10103251220.ZM3878@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 24, 20:24, ajp166 wrote: > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > > > I haven't been following this thread as close as I should. > > > I was working at Intel during the period when ether net was just > > > being defined. The reason for the 2.5m spacing was to insure that > > > any collision was detected by all of the unit on the wire. > > > The idea was that the pulses would be exactly overlapped. This was > > > > In that case, surely the correct spacing of transceivers would depend > on > > the velocity factor of the cable. And while the stnadard specifies the > > spacing (2.5m +/- 5cm IIRC), it doesn't specify the velocity factor > > (other than it must be greater than 0.77 IIRC). > > I recall that in musical stuff and in wirings often these waves > travelling in any tube or wirings tend to be standing waves that why > that marking is where the amptitudes is greatest. That can't be the case with 10Mb thick ether because the distance between markings is about 1/9th of the wavelength. I did find one thing that relates back to something Bill mentioned in an earlier post about specific lengths. >From http://www.ots.utexas.edu/ethernet/10quickref/ch3qr_4.html The specifications note that the thick coaxial segment should ideally be built using a single piece of cable from the same cable spool or from cable spools all manufactured at the same time (known as a cable lot). If cable from different lots is used to build up a thick coax segment, then the specifications note that the sections of cable used should be 23.4 meters, 70.2 meters, or 117 meters in length (all lengths may be +/- 0.5 meters). The reason for using these lengths of cable is to minimize the chance of having excessive signal reflections build up due to the slight variations in electrical characteristics that can occur between different cable manufacturers or cable lots. The basic distance quoted is the same as the distance I calculated yesterday for one bit time: 23.4m. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From guerney at bigpond.com Sun Mar 25 07:15:12 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith Hero Jr Message-ID: <001e01c0b52e$584df140$7937fea9@Guerney> I was amazed to find a local classified ad for a Hero Jr in the Saturday morning paper and soon after I was owner of a very clean Robot for a few dollars (about time I had that sort of luck). Unused for many years but just some cobwebs inside, no corrosion. No charger or remote control or cartridges or documentation unfortunately, but there is lot of technical info on the web I have found today. The old battery will not take a charge using my car [translation - auto] battery "trickle" charger, so I'll have to wait 'till next week to buy a new 12V 3.5A sealed lead/acid battery - that's how this Australian model was powered - not like the 6V batteries described on the web pages for the Hero Jr. And I don't have a 12V PSU to power it up with in the meantime. Am I using an appropriate re-charging device? And could I use the trickle charger itself as the PSU for testing? A multimeter reads about 13V across the terminals when it is powered up, but with my minimal electrical knowledge I do not dare try something that could be fatal to the Hero. None of the Web pages mentioned how much this thing cost new (Feb 85 manufacture date I suspect by a sticker on board inside) and I am curious about that. If anyone has any warnings or "gotcha's" about working with this thing, I'd be glad to hear from you. Other than that, I can't wait - from the info on the web it sounds great fun. And it goes to show, however rare or unusual the item is - eventually one of them turns up here in Brisbane, Australia. Phil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010325/ab532931/attachment.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Mar 25 07:54:47 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Batteries for Sharp PC-45XX Still Sold In-Reply-To: <200103250811.BAA04490@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: I've been able to get a lot of older/odd battery packs in the past from Batteries Plus, a chain of battery suppliers. Some had to go to their "lookup techs" but within 3 days they always had a source for one. They aren't always the cheapest though, a lot depends on the individual franchise owner and how much he/she will haggle with you. I have a reseller account with a nearby one and the owner always gives me a decent break. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jerryjh@imt.net > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 2:12 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Batteries for Sharp PC-45XX Still Sold > > > A few weeks ago, I requested information about a battery for > my Sharp PC-4502 (a portable PC from the mid to late 1980s), > yet received no replies. The original batteries made for the > Sharp PC-45XXs were from Yuasa, which no longer makes them. > The main problem with this battery is its odd shape; other > batteries have similar specifications, but will not fit > inside this portable PC. > > Just as I was about to give up, I simply did a Yahoo search > on Sharp batteries and the PC-4502 and found a source! If > anyone needs a battery for these machines, go to The Raymond > Sarrio Co. at http://www.sarrio.com -- and if you specifically > need a battery for a Sharp PC-45XX like mine, go to this site: > > http://www.sarrio.com/sarrio/laptopsh2sy.html > > Phone: (800)413-1129 > FAX: (508)355-8261 > > I bought the battery for only $49.00, including free 3-day > air mail! (They used to cost around $75.00.) The AC > adaptors are also listed alongside their batteries, in case > you need one of those, too. > > These folks can also make a lot of batteries, if for some > reason they don't have your exact make. So there *is* still > hope for old machines when you least expect it. > > Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a > ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 > > Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered > > From alex at linuxhacker.org Sun Mar 25 08:02:22 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple LC550 In-Reply-To: <571.472T2450T6005815optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 13 Mar 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Alex Holden skrev: > >You can run Linux on most of them, although the port isn't stable yet. > >http://nubus-pmac.sourceforge.net/ > Would that be monolith Linux or the Mach-based MkLinux? Monolithic- it's a port of the conventional Linux/PPC 2.4 kernel to Nubus hardware. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Mar 25 08:22:07 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: 5 People for NeXT equipment so far... References: <3ABBF832.D6B0A5B3@atari-history.com> <3ABC23C6.CA3BF3EB@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3ABDFF0F.2F9BF8F2@timharrison.com> I'm in for one, or possibly two slabs. Curt Vendel wrote: > > Well, > > About 5-6 more people have jumped onboard, now we're just waiting to hear > back from the guy who has the stuff, no answer to the email sent to him yet, > will keep everyone posted as soon as I get a reply I will post to the > maillist and we can hopefully start to divy all this stuff up and get it to > some good homes. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Mar 25 08:34:43 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Adding Fibre to network diet In-Reply-To: <10103251237.ZM3895@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Pete Turnbull wrote: FDDI is a ring system, not point to point like FOIRL and 10baseFL, and it's *not* Ethernet. It uses different protocols. I can't remember if you can have a ring as small as 2 nodes, but I don't see why not. Anyone? I've certainly done it several times, so at least _emperically_ it works ;-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 25 09:11:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <20010325043035.CGHI22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20010325043035.CGHI22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >Amiga FDs is more closer to PC FDs with minor mods to it, even >pinouts matches. Back in '94 or so Dell made a really cool external HD floppy for the Amiga. It had a black matte finish similar to that of the Atari Portfolio and was roughly the size and shape of some of the VST USB floppies being sold for the iMac. I bought one when they first came out and wish I had kept it. The only complaint I've ever seen about them was the cable, as it seemed rather frail. The drive itself couldn't have been much more than the thickness of 3 3-1/2" floppy disks and it worked great as a Mac drive under Shapeshifter too. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Mar 25 09:42:24 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Who can tell me more about this really weird Z80 Canadian built computer... In-Reply-To: <009b01c0b5b2$c6eb7620$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010325104224.25d76714@mailhost.intellistar.net> Claude, FWIW I remember seeing a VERY similar looking machine at a KSC auction about a year ago. I don't remember seeing a name on it though. I don't know who bought the lot that it was in so I have no idea what became of the machine. Joe At 12:08 AM 3/26/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi > >Well today was kinda slow I guess....finds: > >1 fully equipped C128 -1541 II and both P.S.s...$10 >1 1084S monitor $5 (cant pass them up at that price even if I have about 10 of these...) > >This is a "weird" (I refuse to use L@@K RARE! because of its over use on ebay) one: > >1 AES 7100 Office System. Obviously a Z80 machine from the early 1980s. >From AES a Montreal, Canada company (local stuff!) > >1 know of one other non-active collector (still collecting?) who has one. He put up photos so Ill post the URL for there so you can have a look at it and maybe tell me more about this thing: > >http://www.total.net/~hrothgar/museum/AES7100/ > >Its the exact same computer. Mine is in terrific shape but I dont have the manuals like this guy does. I do have 2 original boot disks that I was told will boot (to what?) the machine....have not tried it yet... > >These are "hard sectored" 5 1/4 disks...eeesh...and I only have the 2 original ones...ooooh > >The look of this computer is very "Space 1999ish" if you ask me... > >Perhaps this person has already posted here about this machine but I taught I would try again and maybe perhaps something new will come up... > >Claude >Canuk Computer Collector >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\Whocante.htm" > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Mar 25 10:50:15 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Who can tell me more about this really weird Z80 Canadian built computer... In-Reply-To: <009b01c0b5b2$c6eb7620$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Claude.W wrote: > 1 AES 7100 Office System. Obviously a Z80 machine from the early > 1980s. From AES a Montreal, Canada company (local stuff!) These are > "hard sectored" 5 1/4 disks...eeesh...and I only have the 2 original > told will boot (to what?) the machine....have not tried it yet... AKA: LANIER AES Lanier dedicated Word Processor From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 25 11:18:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 24, 1 08:28:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010325/5fcdd101/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Mar 25 11:27:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 24, 1 10:54:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010325/667092f0/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Mar 25 12:33:28 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >OK, these drives are non-stnadard enough that you can't plug them >straight into a PC's floppy controller. But that's not really what I was >talking about. Thing is, I can take a floppy disk from one of the HP >units, put it in a PC drive, and read/write to it using the right >software. There is no way a PC can read an original Apple Mac disk. Considering that all Mac's made after January 1989 came with a 1.4meg floppy vice the original 400k/800k drive, I'd say that Apple saw it's error with the original drives and corrected it. Everything starting with the SE/30 and IIx has the 1.4meg and in fact Apple dropped support in the OS for dealing with the earlier format in System 8.X. That's one reason I keep my PM 6100 around running System 7.5.5, so that I can still create the images and disks of those. >I still think the correct solution to that is to use a bigger case. I >have never understood this love of making things small, especially not >when there are good technical reasons not to do so. They were trying for a completely different market with the compact Mac's. Their size was meant to make them less formidable to the new computer user. Even my wife, who hasn't touched a computer in a number of years, and who then only used a pre-made boot disk to go directly into a terminal program, saw my Color Classic and stopped to look at it and and called it 'cute'. I like larger cases with expandability myself, but the overall design of the compact Mac's has to be given credit for being the solid design that it is. >I have a CP/M machine with a SASI interface (forerunner of SCSI, and >essentailly the same pinout). My take on that would be that a CP/M machine, at the same period in time, with a SASI or SCSI interface would've been bought for business use though. Other than someone heavy into tinkering with the hardware, not many people would've spent the money for one for home use. As it is, enough other manufacturers used the same DB25 connector on that era's SCSI inplementations. My point in all this is that yes, Apple has done some strange things over the years, some of which have been pet peeves of mine since before I started using Mac's (inability to format non-Apple SCSI hard disks!), and they've produced a few lemons (52-5300 and 62-6300 series PowerMacs) but overall they are very solid machines. For instance, the cases on the Blue/white G3 and G4 towers are almost works of art. HP, Compaq, Tandy, IBM and nearly all of your major PC vendors have themselves done things inconsistent or incompatible with the rest of the industry as well at varios times, so it's not just Apple that tries to pull one over on the user on occasion. I found it hillarious when Tandy introduced IDE in the 1000-series but made it 8bit vice the normal 16bit, which in turn meant that it was compatible with all of four hard disks at the time (2 from Seagate, 2 from Western Digital) and none over 40meg! The Tandy 1000 series though taken as a whole accomplished what it was meant to do and was quite successful. It had excellent name recognition into the early 90's. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From azog at azog.org Sun Mar 25 13:36:18 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI References: Message-ID: <000701c0b562$dd80c480$0a00a8c0@azog> I seem to recall that most of the "bigger" CP/M machines, which could take hard drives, were SASI. I mean "bigger" in terms of things like S-100 as opposed to smaller machines like the QX-10 (which had a hard drive interface, but I think it was an expansion card that was ST-506) . I know Xerox 820s (II?) took SASI interface, and I had others which I can't recall at the time. AFAIK, all the 8" hard drives that I've seen were SASI. > > My take on that would be that a CP/M machine, at the same > period in time, with a SASI or SCSI interface would've been bought > for business use though. Other than someone heavy into tinkering > with the hardware, not many people would've spent the money for one > for home use. As it is, enough other manufacturers used the same > DB25 connector on that era's SCSI inplementations. From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 24 16:53:53 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3200 In-Reply-To: <3AB57A88.A4E7A137@internet1.net> Message-ID: <382.483T2650T14336283optimus@canit.se> Old Stuff Discount Warehouse skrev: >I don't want to say that anybody is wrong, especially since my Vax >knowledge is very small, but I thought the Vax Stations were the later >desktop type machines? We've got a VAXstation IIGPX at the usergroup, and that thing's got wheels! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 25 18:05:27 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple CDROMs and SUNs Message-ID: <200103260005.QAA10962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Will an Apple 300i external SCSI CD-ROM work with a Sun? I know this has been talked about here before but I don't remember what the verdict was or if any modifications can be made. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Let us live! Let us love! Let us share our darkest secrets! ... you first. - From optimus at canit.se Sun Mar 25 18:49:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: DEC 8MB parity 80 pin SIMMs... what are these from? In-Reply-To: <20010320031826.46882.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <525.485T1500T1094681optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >I was at the Dayton Computer show last weekend (at the Hara Arena, same place >as the Dayton Hamvention) and picked up a handful of, I thought, 8MB parity >SIMMs. They are, but they happen to be 80-pin, not 72-pin. >So... what strange DEC gear uses them? Old AXP boxes? Old MIPS boxes? Newer MIPS boxes, such as the Personal DECstation. Possibly the oldest AXP boxes as well. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From optimus at canit.se Sun Mar 25 19:51:37 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Request for suggestions that would be OT if not for the factthat it is VCF related ") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <256.485T1850T1714979optimus@canit.se> John Lawson skrev: > Hey, you're an old Phone Guy. Sorry, I'm neither old, nor a phone guy. Don't know where you got that misinformation. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon X Campaign Against / \ HTML Mail! From jruschme at mac.com Sun Mar 25 21:27:05 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <200103260218.UAA24097@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200103260218.UAA24097@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >From: Mike Ford >Subject: Re: AAUI > >> Apple can't be blamed for the lack of drivers for various >>cards though. I have used any number of PC PCI boards in my PCI >>Mac's, including USB, Firewire and video boards. The slots >>themselves are compliant with the PCI standard. It's just a matter >>of lacking 3rd party drivers. Creative Labs is releasing a Mac >>version of it's SB Live, NVidia has done Mac versions of it's >>Geoforce boards, 3Dfx did Mac versions of it's Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 >>boards just before they went under, and Adaptec has done Mac versions >>of many of it's SCSI boards. > >My back still hurts, so I'll keep typing.... > >Sure I can blame Apple for the lack of drivers, if stinking Apple wrote a >"generic" driver or even published a stable API for its non standard PCI >byte swapped version of PCI then plenty of cards would have worked on the >mac. As it was, ONLY a handfull of often third parties ever bothered to >write a mac driver for a PC PCI card, and mac users paid through the nose >for those items. To some degree, though, I wonder if there isn't a supply and demand issue in effect. For instance, I've never gotten why no one has written a 3rd party OpenTransport driver for common PCI Ethernet NICs such as the EtherLink III or the cheap NE2000 clones. Apple has published sample driver code and the board-level code is public enough from NetBSD or Linux, yet no one has ever put the two together. From what I can tell, the same is the case over in the PCMCIA world with few cards having MacOS support. >Firewire was always an Apple first product, my guess is that some PC >products may have Apple ancestry in the driver code or at least high level >design. Sort of true for USB, except in the PC world about half the cards >meet the open standard that is what Apple drivers recognize, and half don't >and hence won't work with Apple drivers (nobody "really" AFAIK makes a >Apple specific USB driver). OHCI (supported by Apple) versus UHCI. Ironically, I find that a lot of the cheapest cards are the compatible ones. >PCI Video cards I follow pretty closely, and MAYBE a total of 10 cards work >with macs, with half of those being somewhat generic PC PCI cards. Not >moving closer to the AGP PC standard was killing Apple video performance, >so maybe the latest macs have better compatibility, I don't know the >details of that however. Video cards are the worst since it is not only a matter of drivers, but also of firmware. As I understand it, a video card has to have OpenFirmware code for it to be usable. >Oh happy day, we get the two year old most overpriced PC sound card, >without all the features, finally for the mac. Okay, but why do I want it anyway? >I have fun with old macs, I currently use a Starmax for daily stuff, but I >am moving to daily PC use because I am sick of browsers on the mac that >don't work. In a word, javascript, love it hate, heck I don't even know >exactly what it is, but it doesn't work on mac browsers and that means many >pages I want to access I can't. I'm curious... what browser versions have you had the problem with? iCab aside, I've had less trouble with Javascript implementations than with sites that arbitrarily lock out non-Windows users, even if the site would otherwise work. <<>> From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Sun Mar 25 23:14:05 2001 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple CDROMs and SUNs In-Reply-To: <200103260005.QAA10962@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <8558494.3194554445@[172.18.201.132]> --On Sunday, March 25, 2001 4:05 PM -0800 Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Will an Apple 300i external SCSI CD-ROM work with a Sun? I know this has > been talked about here before but I don't remember what the verdict was > or if any modifications can be made. It should work without any problem. I've used mine to boot both SGIs and VAXen. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Miton S. Eisenhower Library The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Sun Mar 25 23:28:34 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems Message-ID: <30341.985584514@www42.gmx.net> Hi folks, we powered up the working pizza box and the laser this weekend. At first we got a lot of le0: no carrier - transceiver cable problem? style errors during bootup and in the console window, but they disappeared when we re-seated the AUI cable on the SUN. Unfortunately, that was not all of the problem. If you now try to print to pa3 (which is the CalComp?s name), the job is stored in the printer queue, but there also appear a number of error messages "No answer from host pa3 on parallel port" when you LPQ for it. PINGing for the printer ends up with "no answer from pa3". Is the SUN trying to send the data to a parallel-port printer although the CalComp is on the Ethernet? Peter Turnbull wrote: >Do those transceivers have a set of LEDs on them? I suspect not, but that >might tell you if anything is being transmitted/received. On the transceiver connected to the SUN, the PWR (green) and SQE (yellow) LED are alight as long as the system is powered up. The only (green) LED on the printer?s transceiver is also on as long as the printer is. If I connect the printer to one of the 3-LED transceivers, the PWR LED is on all the time and the other two give very short flashes when the printer has completed its warming-up cycle and is in ready mode. There are also three LEDs on the back side of the printer next to the AUI connector; two of them (green and orange) illuminate during the warming-up phase, then the orange one goes out and the green one begins to flash. I have not noticed any flickering etc. of LEDs when trying to print or ping. Tony Duell wrote: >How hard is it to swap over the transceiver cables between the 2 Suns? If >it then works, you know the problem is either the transceiver that used to >be connected to the working sum, or a nasty problem caused by reflections >on the cable It is very easy, as the machines stand nearly side-by-side on two neighboring desks and the cable (with the four Transceivers on it) is coiled to a ring and lying behind them. (No, not a very tight ring or one with sharp bends?n?twists in it ) I haven?t yet had the time to try it, but: If I connect the printer to one of the 3-LED transceivers, the PWR LED is on all the time and the other two give very short flashes. However, transmission of data isn?t possible either. Bill Gunshannon wrote: >First, "a piece" of yellow cable won't work. The lengths were part of the >spec and very important. Having to do with reflections and such (anybody >here still have a TDR??) I already mentioned the network ran on our ?piece? until we installed that new tap and transceiver, and that didn?t change it?s length as it wasn?t inserted after cutting the cable apart but only connects by its contacts penetrating the insulating layers of the cable. I know that the length is an integer multiple of 2.5m (2.5m between the black bands and 1.25m between outmost band and terminating resistor on each end) and my guess goes towards a total length of either 12.5m or 15m (5 or 6 times 2.5m). Tony Duell wrote: >The black bands should be every 2.5m (+/- 5cm) along the cable. >There must be only a minimal 'stub' between the cable and the transceiver >(<3cm seems to be the accepted value) Bill Gunshannon wrote: >Second, The cable is marked with black stripes. The taps must go on these >stripes. As the cable already came from the factory with the bands on it (I was told that), they should have the correct spacing (I really didn?t want to uncoil all that stuff just for measuring!) and on the transceivers that already were on the cable, the band is: -in one case, inside the tap block -in two cases 1 and 2cm out of it (which means ca. 6cm away from the core contactor pin). We placed the new one also in such a way that the band is now inside the tap and not visible from the outside. How about the distance terminator to first tap? I measured here about 1.25 meters, which would be half the tap-to-tap distance. As I don?t know much about signal transmission in Coaxes, does this make as much sense as it seems to? Thanks for all given and coming help on solving this. Arno Kletzander -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Mar 25 23:42:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple CDROMs and SUNs In-Reply-To: <8558494.3194554445@[172.18.201.132]> from Brian Harrington at "Mar 26, 1 00:14:05 am" Message-ID: <200103260542.VAA04048@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Will an Apple 300i external SCSI CD-ROM work with a Sun? I know this has > > been talked about here before but I don't remember what the verdict was > > or if any modifications can be made. > > It should work without any problem. I've used mine to boot both SGIs and > VAXen. Groovy. Thanks! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The point of good writing is knowing when to stop. -- Lucy Montgomery ------ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 26 00:15:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >go directly into a terminal program, saw my Color Classic and stopped >to look at it and and called it 'cute'. I like larger cases with >expandability myself, but the overall design of the compact Mac's has >to be given credit for being the solid design that it is. Something slowly seeping into my brain is that a variety of computers of different styles is nice to have. A little SE/30 makes a nice network monitor/server/email/thing, while a huge old chassis is great to park a batch of old hard drives etc. in. Mobility of the SE/30, even at this age gives it quite an edge in many small situatations. I can certainly see the appeal of taking one and decking it out with a nice hard drive, faster cpu, and greatest luxury an 8 bit video board. From jerryjh at imt.net Mon Mar 26 01:10:10 2001 From: jerryjh at imt.net (jerryjh@imt.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Batteries for Sharp PC-45XX Still Sold Message-ID: <200103260709.AAA17888@cu.imt.net> On 2001-03-25 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >I've been able to get a lot of older/odd battery packs in the past >from Batteries Plus, a chain of battery suppliers. Some had to go >to their "lookup techs" but within 3 days they always had a source >for one. They aren't always the cheapest though, a lot depends on >the individual franchise owner and how much he/she will haggle with >you. I have a reseller account with a nearby one and the owner >always gives me a decent break. Before I went on the Internet, I went to Batteries Plus. Yes, they did list a battery for my Sharp PC-4502, yet they didn't call me back and actually "forgot" to get back with me, even though they had it written down in a notebook on their counter. Considering how quickly I got serviced from the Raymond Sarrio company, I'd consider them a serious contender with Batteries Plus in the category of classic machines. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Mar 26 02:03:14 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: Arno Kletzander "SUN networking problems" (Mar 26, 7:28) References: <30341.985584514@www42.gmx.net> Message-ID: <10103260903.ZM4405@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 26, 7:28, Arno Kletzander wrote: > Hi folks, we powered up the working pizza box and the laser this weekend. At > first we got a lot of > le0: no carrier - transceiver cable problem? > style errors during bootup and in the console window, but they disappeared > when we re-seated the AUI cable on the SUN. Unfortunately, that was not all of > the problem. If you now try to print to pa3 (which is the CalComp?s name), > the job is stored in the printer queue, but there also appear a number of > error messages "No answer from host pa3 on parallel port" when you LPQ for it. > PINGing for the printer ends up with "no answer from pa3". > Is the SUN trying to send the data to a parallel-port printer although the > CalComp is on the Ethernet? Maybe. Have you tried pinging the printer by it's IP address instead of it's name? Try a broadcast ping? Have you checked the printer settings to make sure it's using the correct IP address? Is that set from its panel, or by RARP/BOOTP/DHCP? If the latter, it needs a server to boot. If the Sun didn't get a valid signal from the transceiver when it booted, it might not have enabled le0, or there might not be a route through it. Check with "netstat -rn" and "ifconfig le0". > Peter Turnbull wrote: > >Do those transceivers have a set of LEDs on them? I suspect not, but that > >might tell you if anything is being transmitted/received. > > On the transceiver connected to the SUN, the PWR (green) and SQE (yellow) > LED are alight as long as the system is powered up. That's how it should be. However, if there is an LED for either transmit or receive, it should flash when you try a ping. If it doesn't, either the Sun isn't sending the packet or there's a short circuit. > The only (green) LED on the > printer?s transceiver is also on as long as the printer is. That probably just means it has power. > If I connect the printer to one of the 3-LED transceivers, the PWR LED is on > all the time and the other two give very short flashes when the printer has > completed its warming-up cycle and is in ready mode. Both LEDs? I'm guessing as to what the LEDs do, but that probably means it's transmitting something. Maybe an ARP or BOOTP request. It depends on what the LEDs do. One might be for collision, in which case there's a cable fault if it flashes. More likely one is transmit and the other receive, in which case what you see is correct, it transmits a packet and simultaneously detects what it's transmitting. > There are also three LEDs on the back side of the printer next to the AUI > connector; two of them (green and orange) illuminate during the warming-up > phase, then the orange one goes out and the green one begins to flash. > I have not noticed any flickering etc. of LEDs when trying to print or ping. Hmm... What are the LEDs on the transceivers labelled? Mine have 5 LEDs: Power, SQE, Transmit, Receive, and Collision. (I also have several transceivers with no LEDs, or just one for power, but none with three.) > Tony Duell wrote: > >How hard is it to swap over the transceiver cables between the 2 Suns? If > >it then works, you know the problem is either the transceiver that used to > >be connected to the working sum, or a nasty problem caused by reflections >on > the cable Not necessarily, it might not have brought up the le0 interface if the AUI cable was disconnected when it powered up. > on the cable, the band is: > -in one case, inside the tap block > -in two cases 1 and 2cm out of it (which means ca. 6cm away from the core > contactor pin). > We placed the new one also in such a way that the band is now inside the tap > and not visible from the outside. Sounds like two of the original tranceivers are slighly off position according to the specification, but on a relatively short cable with only a few transceivers, I doubt a small deviation matters very much. > How about the distance terminator to first tap? I measured here about 1.25 > meters, which would be half the tap-to-tap distance. As I don?t know much > about signal transmission in Coaxes, does this make as much sense as it seems to? The distance to the terminators doesn't matter, it doesn't have to be any particular distance. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Mon Mar 26 05:39:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <20010325073111Z434493-2706+43@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <1587.485T550T7593883optimus@canit.se> Mark Green skrev: >> >It will have a keyboard connector, it will probably look like a RJ11 >> >phone jack if I remember correctly. There should also be a video >> >connector on the back. The video connector has 3 pins, its doesn't >> >look like a VGA connector, or any other standard video connector. >> >> Define "standard"? To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any >> standard video connector, save perhaps for SCART. >By standard I meant something that had been used elsewhere. If >you have never seen this connector before, there is a good chance >that you wouldn't guess its a video connector. Standard connectors >I associate with video are VGA, 13W3 and BNC, this looks like none >of them. Would that be 9-pin or 15-pin VGA? Besides, the 3W3 looks rather similar to the 13W3. And what about D23, D15, DIN-13, DIN-5, D9, in a lot of odd configurations. >> >The three pins are R,G,B with I believe sync on G. You should be >> >able to connect these to a VGA monitor. >> >> Assuming it supports sync on green and the correct frequencies. >If I remember correctly, the 5000 line had relatively standard >video frequencies, it was the monitors that were fixed frquency >and couldn't be switched between different models. I suspect >it is either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, it will depend upon the >graphics option that's installed. Or 1024?864. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." David McMinn From optimus at canit.se Mon Mar 26 08:23:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <743.485T850T9234903optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >> Wouldn't mind finding a nest of transceiver cables, though. A bunch of >> mine left attached to SPARC2s and SPARC IPXs because the AT&T transceivers >> I have >They are still available, but expensive... >I had to make up my own drop cable at one point -- the PERQ Ethernet >connector, while a standard DA15, has jackposts, not that infernal >slide-lock. So standard cables don't fit. Jackposts? The kind of posts found on most D-sub connectors into which you fasten the cable with small screws? A lot of older ethernet equipment has got that kind of fastening mechanism, such as SMC cards and IIRC 3Com ones as well. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Mon Mar 26 08:30:18 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <1587.485T550T7593883optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 26, 2001 12:39:11 pm" Message-ID: <20010326143023Z434770-10128+409@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > Mark Green skrev: > > >> >It will have a keyboard connector, it will probably look like a RJ11 > >> >phone jack if I remember correctly. There should also be a video > >> >connector on the back. The video connector has 3 pins, its doesn't > >> >look like a VGA connector, or any other standard video connector. > >> > >> Define "standard"? To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any > >> standard video connector, save perhaps for SCART. > > >By standard I meant something that had been used elsewhere. If > >you have never seen this connector before, there is a good chance > >that you wouldn't guess its a video connector. Standard connectors > >I associate with video are VGA, 13W3 and BNC, this looks like none > >of them. > > Would that be 9-pin or 15-pin VGA? > Besides, the 3W3 looks rather similar to the 13W3. And what about D23, D15, > DIN-13, DIN-5, D9, in a lot of odd configurations. What's the point of your comment? The Decstation 5000/200 doesn't have these connectors so it doesn't make any difference. The standard cable provided by DEC for these machines basically took their 3 pin connector to 3 BNC connectors. This can be connected to a monitor that has BNC connectors and supports the appropriate frequencies. Since the video connectors on the 5000 series workstations were somewhat unusual they can easily be overlooked by someone who isn't familiar with them. > > >> >The three pins are R,G,B with I believe sync on G. You should be > >> >able to connect these to a VGA monitor. > >> > >> Assuming it supports sync on green and the correct frequencies. > > >If I remember correctly, the 5000 line had relatively standard > >video frequencies, it was the monitors that were fixed frquency > >and couldn't be switched between different models. I suspect > >it is either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, it will depend upon the > >graphics option that's installed. > > Or 1024_864. =) > > -- I don't recall that particular resolution. Each of the graphics adaptors (there was about a dozen of them) had its own resolution and there was no easy way of changing it. The graphics displays were not near as flexible as the SGIs of the same time period. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 08:42:48 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Odd disk interface connectors (was Re: AAUI) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010326144248.73498.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > THere are good reasons for having a ground wire between every signal wire > on the SCSI bus. Which you can't do if you have a DB25 connector. I think > youy can come _close_ if you use a DC37, but I've never seen that > connector used for SCSI. I have a Tecmar external SCSI drive for the Amiga that has a DC37. Inside is an ordinary SCSI<->MFM board and a 20Mb MFM drive, but the external interface is a DC37. > Nor have I ever seen the DB44 (yes, it does exist) used for SCSI, which, > being the same shell size as the DB25, would bave been an obvious choice. I haven't seen it used for SCSI, either, but I have a flat-panel computer, a 486DX4-100 w/PCMCIA, ISA, etc., etc., designed for hanging on a wall bracket, that has a DB44 for external IDE - CD-ROM presumably. If I knew where to get a connector, I'd take the time to run the pinout and add an external drive to it (I had to do the same for the DB-25 floppy connector so I could boot the thing off of something besides the internal disk). -ethan > > -tony > ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Mar 26 08:41:49 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: 10Base5/Thicknet (was Re: SUN networking problems) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:09:21 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell wrote: > > anybody here still have a TDR??) > > Not yet, it's something I am half-seriously looking for. I was lucky enough to acquire an Ethernet Test Set at the weekend. It will test transceivers by connecting to the AUI port and to the BNC "Cheapernet", as well as doing a form of TDR. You have to remove the far-end terminator from your ethernet and then it'll tell you how long it takes to get the reflections back. I presume it would work with a fault condition on the net as well. If anyone's interested, I could get some more detailed info and pictures. It's in a nifty little metal suitcase, with bright blue AUI cable, BNC cable and manuals. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Mon Mar 26 08:50:02 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa-Sun Stuff Message-ID: I picked up an Apple Lisa this weekend and it is missing the keyboard and mouse. Anyone on the list have one they would like to part with? trade? money? etc... I also have a couple of Sun SPARCstation LC's free to good homes. They do work but no monitor, keyboard or mice. Just the lunchbox. Also, I do not have the root passwords. Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 26 09:19:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: EtherTalk blues Message-ID: <200103261519.HAA10934@stockholm.ptloma.edu> For some reason my 7.1 Macs won't switch their connections to EtherTalk from LocalTalk. They just say "an error has occurred" and put me back to LocalTalk. I do have the EtherTalk Phase 2 extension installed. I know these cards are good because they pass the Farallon diagnostics and the cable tests fine as well. They're EtherWave NuBus (PN890-TP). I'm using the latest Farallon EN software from their website. The cards also work fine in NetBSD, just not MacOS. Ideas? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S Truman --------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 26 10:34:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: L40SX questions In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307234105.00adbc40@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010307231022.26479f16@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.2.20010307134121.00ac9220@popmail.voicenet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010307081851.021e7b40@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010326113423.3bbf0f60@mailhost.intellistar.net> Gene, Are you the one that had the questiuons about the L 40? I picked up the L 40 that my friend had and I may be able to answer your questions. I also found another L 40 in a scrap place but didn't get it since they wanted too much for it and the case was separated and it had been out in the weather for a while. I did get the battery from it though. My friend's L 40 has the case, the reference disk, the Hardware Maintenance Service booklet, the Technical Reference book, the mouse and a 12 DC automobile charger with it. Joe At 11:42 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >At 11:10 PM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >>I'm not sure that I know what a L40SX is. Is that the laptop that IBM >>used to make? If so I know where there's one at and I think it has docs >>with it. If that's the same machine then I may be able to try out this one >>and/or see what the docs say. > >Joe, it's a PS/2 made in 1991 and was the first real laptop made by >IBM I believe after the Convertible. > >Gene > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > >gene@ehrich.com >gehrich@tampabay.rr.com >P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 > >http://www.voicenet.com/~generic >Computer & Video Game Garage Sale > > > > > > From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Mar 26 09:29:28 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa-Sun Stuff Message-ID: In a message dated 3/26/01 9:56:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, brian.roth@firstniagarabank.com writes: > > I also have a couple of Sun SPARCstation LC's free to good homes. They do > work but no monitor, keyboard or mice. Just the lunchbox. Also, I do not have > the root passwords. > > Brian. I could use one of these Brian. -Linc Fessenden From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Mon Mar 26 09:34:59 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa-Sun Stuff Message-ID: Both the SPARC's have been spoken for. If I get any more I'll post them here again. Thanks, Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Mar 26 09:48:08 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: EtherTalk blues References: <200103261519.HAA10934@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Did you try turning off Appletalk first? I think if a computer is connected to another with Appleshare you can't switch your connection. What kind of machines are they? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:19 AM Subject: EtherTalk blues > For some reason my 7.1 Macs won't switch their connections to EtherTalk from > LocalTalk. They just say "an error has occurred" and put me back to LocalTalk. > I do have the EtherTalk Phase 2 extension installed. > > I know these cards are good because they pass the Farallon diagnostics and > the cable tests fine as well. They're EtherWave NuBus (PN890-TP). > > I'm using the latest Farallon EN software from their website. The cards also > work fine in NetBSD, just not MacOS. > > Ideas? > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- If you cannot convince them, confuse them. -- Harry S Truman --------------- > From leec at slip.net Mon Mar 26 09:59:26 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... In-Reply-To: <331.467T1300T7794729optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: I have a 17 inch Sony monitor (model GDM-1950) free to anyone who wants to pick it up. The catch, it has a sync(?) problem and therefore doesn't display anything very well. Beautiful (and huge and heavy) - if you can fix it you'll have a great monitor. Email or call for info. Has to be out of here in the next two weeks. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Mar 26 10:26:45 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:25 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith Hero Jr References: <001e01c0b52e$584df140$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: I think Heath still has support documents for these beasts. The last time I heard from heath (a while ago) they said they would continue to sell manuals/repair guides to their old machines, probably at a premium. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Guerney To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 8:15 AM Subject: Heath Zenith Hero Jr I was amazed to find a local classified ad for a Hero Jr in the Saturday morning paper and soon after I was owner of a very clean Robot for a few dollars (about time I had that sort of luck). Unused for many years but just some cobwebs inside, no corrosion. No charger or remote control or cartridges or documentation unfortunately, but there is lot of technical info on the web I have found today. The old battery will not take a charge using my car [translation - auto] battery "trickle" charger, so I'll have to wait 'till next week to buy a new 12V 3.5A sealed lead/acid battery - that's how this Australian model was powered - not like the 6V batteries described on the web pages for the Hero Jr. And I don't have a 12V PSU to power it up with in the meantime. Am I using an appropriate re-charging device? And could I use the trickle charger itself as the PSU for testing? A multimeter reads about 13V across the terminals when it is powered up, but with my minimal electrical knowledge I do not dare try something that could be fatal to the Hero. None of the Web pages mentioned how much this thing cost new (Feb 85 manufacture date I suspect by a sticker on board inside) and I am curious about that. If anyone has any warnings or "gotcha's" about working with this thing, I'd be glad to hear from you. Other than that, I can't wait - from the info on the web it sounds great fun. And it goes to show, however rare or unusual the item is - eventually one of them turns up here in Brisbane, Australia. Phil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/f5298ff0/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Mar 26 13:18:49 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 86/97 CPM Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010326141849.3ce71bc4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi All, I finally got the docs for the CPM module for the HP 86/87. After reading them it appears that you need specail software to make the module work. Does anyone have the software for it? Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 12:10:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: RK11-C and Straight-8 restoration In-Reply-To: <200103240121.UAA24506@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20010326181034.11793.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > ...add the second core stack to the -8/i. > > Got peripherals (RK05, RX01, DF32/DS32, TU56, PR04). Lacking in > > pre-omnibus interfaces. > > > The DF32 is a external bus device so just hook up the 11 interface cables > and away you go. Right. I've had them hooked up in the past. I got as far as writing a simple program to check the rotational pulse and stick it in the AC so I could watch the disk rotate. That tells me that the cables and the master electronics are probably OK. > I should finish the DF/DS32 manual scanning also this weekend, it will be up > with the rest soon and more pictures of the 8/I and DF32. Cool. I have some DF32 docs. I'll be happy to see if there's more stuff floating around than what I have. > The disk monitor system runs on DF/DS32, the paper tape image (and DF32 diags > etc) are in ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/paper_tapes/ docs > http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml Excellent. _There's_ something I know I don't have. > OS/8 will run with a DF32 and DS32 and 8k but may not have enough space to > be too useful. Right. It will run, but lots of stuff wants more memory. > I also may be able to help with 8/I parts. At the moment, I'm not short on parts. Thanks for the offer. What would me of immesurable use - a digital picture or three of the area around the power input card to the -8/i backplane. I disconnected mine for transport a while back and I can't remember how the loose wires hook back on. Once I get that replaced, I can fire up the beast again and start looking for bad logic and dirty backplane connectors. > The reader/punch can also be hooked up to an 8/I if it had the > interface cards in the 8/I. Right. I only have one set of interface cards. > Longer term the 8/I will join the 8/E runnable online although I > will have to replace the disk heads with an emulation since the drive > lands the heads on the disk when it spins down so has a limited number of > spin down cycles. The platter is nickel cobalt alloy so is more durable > than the iron oxide ones (ex RK05's) when the head does hit it. Right. I've probably roached one of the platters on one of my master units from experimentation in High School, before I knew of the destructive nature of the drive. Once I get everything else in order, I'll probably flip the platter over, if Field Circus hasn't beaten me to it. > I also have a Straight 8 maintenance manual on the too scan list, if > you need it (or any others, I may have them) before I get to it let me > know and I will do it sooner. It's not a priority for me, but I will eagerly soak it up when it gets scanned. Somewhere, I do have some docs Doug Jones sent me years ago, but it's not a complete set by any means. My priority -8 items are - finish running the working -8/L through the diagnostic tapes, get the -8/i up and in the same state, get/manufacture some overhead connector blocks for the memory on my -8/e and get it up and running, fix an -8/a and back up my RL01 to a disk image file, clean and check out my BM-08 8kW expander for the PDP-8/L, test/repair the TU-56 with a TD8E, back up my DECTape collection to image files... Lots of stuff to do; probably a year's worth of spare time for just that list alone. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 12:17:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: RK11-C and Straight-8 restoration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010326181730.48078.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > It's not so much parts as time and docs. I may have the RK11-C prints... > An H720 PSU IIRC. I can't remember if it needs voltages other than +5V, > though. It may need -15V, but probably not much else. I'm sure I have a few of those sitting around. > > ...I got it in 1984... I proceeded, in my youthful ignorance, to crash the > > RK05F... > > It's probably possible to repair that if/when you have time. If you were > in the UK, I'd offer to give you a hand doing it (I may even have a spare > set of -F heads, but I don't want to send them by post...) I don't think I have that drive intact anymore. I was working for a small company doing DEC repairs in 1988 and I think I stripped mine down for parts about the same time I reduced two pallets of them down to four working drives for my boss. What I'll probably have to do is convert a working RK05J into a working RK05F by replacing the heads, changing the jumpers, removing the cartridge loading mechanism and changing out the faceplace (I think I still have it somewhere). Before anyone bemoans the loss, remember, this was more than ten years ago when such things were being thrown away. I have rescued several RK05 drives over the years and only the one was stripped. I don't know if the heads would be useful, even if I kept them; one was pretty goobered up when it crashed. I know I still have the platter - there is no oxide over a three-inch stripe on one side. I planed it all off when I screwed up. It was the first hard disk I ever interacted with and it did _not_ survive the experience. Since I do have a single RK05F cart (16 sector!), I would eventually like to get a working F drive, but it's ultra-low priority. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Mar 26 12:21:03 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010326182103.8109.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > If you ever start working on the RK11-C, feel free to contact me. I have > the printset, and I've worked on mine, so I know what to expect. Having > a KM11 maintenance card helps a lot, BTW. I'll bet. Somewhere, someone (was it you?) posted a set of directions for building a KM-11 from modern components. I plan to make one someday, for both the RK11-C and for diagnosing several RX01 and RX02 drives I have that aren't up to snuff. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Mon Mar 26 12:32:52 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Batteries for Sharp PC-45XX Still Sold In-Reply-To: <200103260709.AAA17888@cu.imt.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 jerryjh@imt.net wrote: > On 2001-03-25 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: > > >I've been able to get a lot of older/odd battery packs in the past > >from Batteries Plus, a chain of battery suppliers. Some had to go > >to their "lookup techs" but within 3 days they always had a source > >for one. They aren't always the cheapest though, a lot depends on > >the individual franchise owner and how much he/she will haggle with > >you. I have a reseller account with a nearby one and the owner > >always gives me a decent break. > > Before I went on the Internet, I went to Batteries Plus. Yes, they > did list a battery for my Sharp PC-4502, yet they didn't call me > back and actually "forgot" to get back with me, even though they had > it written down in a notebook on their counter. Considering how > quickly I got serviced from the Raymond Sarrio company, I'd consider > them a serious contender with Batteries Plus in the category of classic > machines. Another possible source for your consideration is: Tauber Electronics 955 Borra Place Escondido CA 92029 760-740-6687 voice 760-740-6687 fax www.tauber.com They enjoy a good reputation locally. - don > Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a > ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 > > Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered > > From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Mar 26 12:53:36 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 86/97 CPM In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010326141849.3ce71bc4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010326134958.03aa6c78@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 02:18 PM 3/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hi All, > > I finally got the docs for the CPM module for the HP 86/87. After >reading them it appears that you need specail software to make the module >work. Does anyone have the software for it? > > Joe I have a box of diskettes for an HP 86 system I picked up a while back. I'm pretty sure it was running CP/M. I'll take a look to see if I have any official-looking disks and drop you a line. -- Tony From RebelTerry at home.net Mon Mar 26 12:59:03 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? Message-ID: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Hi, I'm new to the group. Does anyone have any information on the old HP 9845 desktop computers, specifically, if any working units still exist? I have manuals and a bunch of old software, including some extremely high-end games, both on 8" floppy and on tape. I'd love to at least be able to pull off some listings or get some of the data transferred to a current medium. Thanks. RT From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Mar 26 13:02:07 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Free DEC docs and equipment, Washington DC area Message-ID: The software for DECMouth, of course! MWHAHAHAHAHA Another Bad Pun, Courtesy of Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 12:54:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Odd disk interface connectors (was Re: AAUI) In-Reply-To: <20010326144248.73498.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 26, 1 06:42:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 616 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/72bf96d3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 12:49:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: <30341.985584514@www42.gmx.net> from "Arno Kletzander" at Mar 26, 1 07:28:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 858 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/5415b223/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 26 13:13:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... References: Message-ID: <001b01c0b628$c6ead640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The GDM 1950 I used to have is a fixed-frequency, 1280x1024-formatted 20" monitor. There was a GDM 1952 that was a smaller version but the 1950 with which I once got quite familiar was a 20", VERY sharp, VERY well converged, VERY linear, and VERY bright, not to mention VERY heavy, monitor that used BNC inputs. I bought an adapter board from PHOTON for it for what turned out to be more than what the package was worth, though it was a real pleasure using a large format monitor. (... now they're all 20" or so, since I'm at middle age and going blind, like most of my contemporaries ...) The video bios was incompatible with some rather important functions, i.e. it interfered with "floppy-tape" backup software, so it was quickly phased out. Subsequent efforts to get a BIOS suitable for use with a different monitor were unsuccessful, so the adapter ( a VLB type so not of much use today) is not being used if someone wants to wrestle with the details. A couple of days ago I was at Costco and noticed that 20" (actually 18". but 20" by today's marketing) multisync monitors, with flat screen, etc, and claiming to be capable of 1600x1200 pixels are selling at around $250. That certainly puts a cap on what one would invest in terms of hauling, repair effort, interfacing hardware, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee Courtney" To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 8:59 AM Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... > I have a 17 inch Sony monitor (model GDM-1950) free to anyone who wants to > pick it up. The catch, it has a sync(?) problem and therefore doesn't > display anything very well. Beautiful (and huge and heavy) - if you can fix > it you'll have a great monitor. Email or call for info. Has to be out of > here in the next two weeks. > > Lee Courtney > President > > Monterey Software Group Inc. > 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J > Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. > 650-964-7052 voice > 650-964-6735 fax > > Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for > HP3000 Business Servers > http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Mar 26 13:32:04 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... In-Reply-To: <001b01c0b628$c6ead640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: The fixed frequency nature of these monitors made them a bit more complicated to work with. There was a company called "Microfield Graphics" that built a display card that really made these monitors look nice. As I recall they had windows 3.1 and some Unix drivers for them. Very sharp for the day. George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The GDM 1950 I used to have is a fixed-frequency, 1280x1024-formatted 20" > monitor. There was a GDM 1952 that was a smaller version but the 1950 with > which I once got quite familiar was a 20", VERY sharp, VERY well converged, VERY > linear, and VERY bright, not to mention VERY heavy, monitor that used BNC > inputs. > > I bought an adapter board from PHOTON for it for what turned out to be more than > what the package was worth, though it was a real pleasure using a large format > monitor. (... now they're all 20" or so, since I'm at middle age and going > blind, like most of my contemporaries ...) The video bios was incompatible > with some rather important functions, i.e. it interfered with "floppy-tape" > backup software, so it was quickly phased out. Subsequent efforts to get a BIOS > suitable for use with a different monitor were unsuccessful, so the adapter ( a > VLB type so not of much use today) is not being used if someone wants to wrestle > with the details. > > A couple of days ago I was at Costco and noticed that 20" (actually 18". but 20" > by today's marketing) multisync monitors, with flat screen, etc, and claiming to > be capable of 1600x1200 pixels are selling at around $250. That certainly puts > a cap on what one would invest in terms of hauling, repair effort, interfacing > hardware, etc. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee Courtney" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 8:59 AM > Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... > > > > I have a 17 inch Sony monitor (model GDM-1950) free to anyone who wants to > > pick it up. The catch, it has a sync(?) problem and therefore doesn't > > display anything very well. Beautiful (and huge and heavy) - if you can fix > > it you'll have a great monitor. Email or call for info. Has to be out of > > here in the next two weeks. > > > > Lee Courtney > > President > > > > Monterey Software Group Inc. > > 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J > > Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. > > 650-964-7052 voice > > 650-964-6735 fax > > > > Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for > > HP3000 Business Servers > > http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 13:37:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> from "RebelTerry" at Mar 26, 1 10:59:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1447 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/ccb178cf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 13:30:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: TU-58 rollers and emulation (was Re: VAX 11/725) In-Reply-To: <20010326182103.8109.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 26, 1 10:21:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 940 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/60cf6f2d/attachment.ksh From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Mon Mar 26 14:22:24 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard Message-ID: Hi, I have a 'Morse Technologies KP 286HF' mainboard with an AMD-Processor - the board works, but I don't have the slightest idea about the jumper settings ... I put 4 MB in it, but it only recognizes 640Kb and I assume, that for clocking it to 12Mhz the (not available) Turbo-Button should be pressed ?!? For any hints or links to manuals I would be very glad ... Cheers, Mario From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 26 14:25:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... References: Message-ID: <003101c0b632$dc8caa00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The firmware for these adapters was sufficiently difficult to manage, since each fixed frequency monitor seemed to demand something different, that the cost was prohibitive, by today's standards and prices. If you have an application to which the monitor is suited, it's a great monitor! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rachor" To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... > The fixed frequency nature of these monitors made them a bit more > complicated to work with. There was a company called "Microfield > Graphics" that built a display card that really made these monitors look > nice. As I recall they had windows 3.1 and some Unix drivers for them. > > Very sharp for the day. > > George Rachor > > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com > Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > The GDM 1950 I used to have is a fixed-frequency, 1280x1024-formatted 20" > > monitor. There was a GDM 1952 that was a smaller version but the 1950 with > > which I once got quite familiar was a 20", VERY sharp, VERY well converged, VERY > > linear, and VERY bright, not to mention VERY heavy, monitor that used BNC > > inputs. > > > > I bought an adapter board from PHOTON for it for what turned out to be more than > > what the package was worth, though it was a real pleasure using a large format > > monitor. (... now they're all 20" or so, since I'm at middle age and going > > blind, like most of my contemporaries ...) The video bios was incompatible > > with some rather important functions, i.e. it interfered with "floppy-tape" > > backup software, so it was quickly phased out. Subsequent efforts to get a BIOS > > suitable for use with a different monitor were unsuccessful, so the adapter ( a > > VLB type so not of much use today) is not being used if someone wants to wrestle > > with the details. > > > > A couple of days ago I was at Costco and noticed that 20" (actually 18". but 20" > > by today's marketing) multisync monitors, with flat screen, etc, and claiming to > > be capable of 1600x1200 pixels are selling at around $250. That certainly puts > > a cap on what one would invest in terms of hauling, repair effort, interfacing > > hardware, etc. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lee Courtney" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 8:59 AM > > Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... > > > > > > > I have a 17 inch Sony monitor (model GDM-1950) free to anyone who wants to > > > pick it up. The catch, it has a sync(?) problem and therefore doesn't > > > display anything very well. Beautiful (and huge and heavy) - if you can fix > > > it you'll have a great monitor. Email or call for info. Has to be out of > > > here in the next two weeks. > > > > > > Lee Courtney > > > President > > > > > > Monterey Software Group Inc. > > > 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J > > > Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. > > > 650-964-7052 voice > > > 650-964-6735 fax > > > > > > Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for > > > HP3000 Business Servers > > > http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > > > > > > > > > > > > From guerney at bigpond.com Mon Mar 26 14:09:18 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> I have a 9845 but it shares a common problem - the monitor is missing! I'm told they are the first thing to go and much harder to replace than finding a 9845 in the first place. I was told by the HP experts on this list when I first asked (a year or two ago) that there is no way known to hook up an external monitor in place of the original that plugged into those two special ports on the top of the 9845. But you would think that this monitor was basically a standard TTL or analogue monitior of some sort and that someone might have the technical details to wire a replacement from the plugs? A bit hard to use without the monitor unfortunately and in 1980 this was my most DESIRED computer, so I would love to get this one going again. Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: RebelTerry To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:59 AM Subject: HP 9845s? > Hi, > > I'm new to the group. Does anyone have any information on the old HP > 9845 desktop computers, specifically, if any working units still exist? > > I have manuals and a bunch of old software, including some extremely > high-end games, both on 8" floppy and on tape. I'd love to at least be > able to pull off some listings or get some of the data transferred to a > current medium. > > Thanks. > > RT From guerney at bigpond.com Mon Mar 26 14:18:08 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith Hero Jr - No HTML Message-ID: <004601c0b631$e2e6c080$7937fea9@Guerney> [Sorry about the last post with HTML turned on - I know that some of the most helpful people on this list probably would not even read that post, so I am putting it up again] ==================================== I was amazed to find a local classified ad for a Hero Jr in the Saturday morning paper and soon after I was owner of a very clean Robot for a few dollars (about time I had that sort of luck). Unused for many years but just some cobwebs inside, no corrosion. No charger or remote control or cartridges or documentation unfortunately, but there is lot of technical info on the web I have found today. The old battery will not take a charge using my car [translation - auto] battery "trickle" charger, so I'll have to wait 'till next week to buy a new 12V 3.5A sealed lead/acid battery - that's how this Australian model was powered - not like the 6V batteries described on the web pages for the Hero Jr. And I don't have a 12V PSU to power it up with in the meantime. Am I using an appropriate re-charging device? And could I use the trickle charger itself as the PSU for testing? A multimeter reads about 13V across the terminals when it is powered up, but with my minimal electrical knowledge I do not dare try something that could be fatal to the Hero. None of the Web pages mentioned how much this thing cost new (Feb 85 manufacture date I suspect by a sticker on board inside) and I am curious about that. If anyone has any warnings or "gotcha's" about working with this thing, I'd be glad to hear from you. Other than that, I can't wait - from the info on the web it sounds great fun. And it goes to show, however rare or unusual the item is - eventually one of them turns up here in Brisbane, Australia. Phil From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 26 14:58:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard References: Message-ID: <003901c0b637$8aff0840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST sequence to enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup diskette to do the setup of the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, there's usually a Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If there's no TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available somewhere, and these connections are normally located in the lower left region of the board (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the upper right, for reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you don't have one, or that it's not present/supported on the motherboard? I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe it to be operable at 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything about the support chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 around here someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more likely it's a board that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you never know ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mario Premke" To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: i286-Mainboard > > Hi, I have a 'Morse Technologies KP 286HF' mainboard with > an AMD-Processor - the board works, but I don't have the slightest > idea about the jumper settings ... I put 4 MB in it, but it only > recognizes 640Kb and I assume, that for clocking it to 12Mhz the > (not available) Turbo-Button should be pressed ?!? > For any hints or links to manuals I would be very glad ... > Cheers, > Mario > > From azog at azog.org Mon Mar 26 14:59:59 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 Message-ID: <002101c0b637$b89b0ec0$0a00a8c0@azog> About a month ago, I posted that I picked up a Mac SE/30, sans keyboard and mouse. Today, I got a keyboard and mouse, and now need to figure out how to bypass security on this thing. It boots, and prompts me for a password. Three times, and it shuts down. I know Apple has older MacOS releases on their ftp site, but that begs the question - how do I create MacOS disks if I lack a Mac to create them? I think I recall seeing somewhere that you can bypass extensions on bootup by pressing a shift key, but that didn't work, so I assume that this isn't an extension, but something intergral into the OS itself... From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 26 16:08:45 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard Message-ID: If the BIOS type can be identified, that will be a great help in knowing to how access the configuration utility; AMI is pressing delete during memory count, award is control+alt+F10, and so forth. In a message dated 3/26/01 3:07:18 PM Central Standard Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: << I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST sequence to enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup diskette to do the setup of the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, there's usually a Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If there's no TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available somewhere, and these connections are normally located in the lower left region of the board (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the upper right, for reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you don't have one, or that it's not present/supported on the motherboard? I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe it to be operable at 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything about the support chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 around here someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more likely it's a board that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you never know ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mario Premke" To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: i286-Mainboard > > Hi, I have a 'Morse Technologies KP 286HF' mainboard with > an AMD-Processor - the board works, but I don't have the slightest > idea about the jumper settings ... I put 4 MB in it, but it only > recognizes 640Kb and I assume, that for clocking it to 12Mhz the > (not available) Turbo-Button should be pressed ?!? > For any hints or links to manuals I would be very glad ... > Cheers, > Mario > >> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Mar 26 16:23:10 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 Message-ID: In a message dated 3/26/01 3:07:26 PM Central Standard Time, azog@azog.org writes: << I think I recall seeing somewhere that you can bypass extensions on bootup by pressing a shift key, but that didn't work, so I assume that this isn't an extension, but something intergral into the OS itself... >> no password schemes are in the os itself. try holding down the left shift key again as soon as you see the happy mac. if its system 7 or higher, it will say extensions disabled. if that don't work, you'll need to find a system floppy to boot from so you can mount the hard drive and take a look around. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 16:44:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> from "Phil Guerney" at Mar 27, 1 06:09:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/8a05b24b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 16:49:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith Hero Jr - No HTML In-Reply-To: <004601c0b631$e2e6c080$7937fea9@Guerney> from "Phil Guerney" at Mar 27, 1 06:18:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010326/6848d2bf/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Mar 26 16:51:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: EtherTalk blues In-Reply-To: <200103261519.HAA10934@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >For some reason my 7.1 Macs won't switch their connections to EtherTalk from >LocalTalk. They just say "an error has occurred" and put me back to LocalTalk. >I do have the EtherTalk Phase 2 extension installed. > >I know these cards are good because they pass the Farallon diagnostics and >the cable tests fine as well. They're EtherWave NuBus (PN890-TP). > >I'm using the latest Farallon EN software from their website. The cards also >work fine in NetBSD, just not MacOS. > >Ideas? Have you checked the Farallon tech support faq or asked Dr Farallon? That would be my first place to look. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 26 17:37:10 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: 12V supply (was: Heath Zenith Hero Jr - No HTML In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 12V PSUs are not that hard to find. I believe the amateur radio or CB > crowd use them for running mobile (car type) rigs at home. So you might > be able to get one that was designed for that sort of use. It may well > claim to be 13.8V which, IMHO, would be fine for this application How about a PC power supply? I can't imagine anything cheaper (they are cheaper than cinder blocks for building shelves) They put out 5V and 12V, and should be accurate enopugh on the voltages. You might need a load for it to work - an old automotive headlight will work (get your local wrench to save you one with one burned out filament and use the other filament) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From curt at atari-history.com Mon Mar 26 20:47:23 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: NeXT's available References: Message-ID: <3ABFFF3B.B2EF3B5C@atari-history.com> Hi, The guy with the NeXTs got back to me, they are ours, I'll buy the whole lot for $1,000 and truck it home, I already have dibs on the 1st cube, the other cube was spoken for by the first person who responded to me a few days back, a bunch of guys want nextstations and monitors and such, I'll compose a running list of who's getting what, reply if your interested in a nextstation and we'll work on the pricing and such, I figure it should be around $30-$40 per person plus shipping to where ever they are from NYC. Curt From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Mar 26 17:51:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: 12V supply (was: Heath Zenith Hero Jr - No HTML In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Mar 26, 1 03:37:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1514 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/393043b6/attachment.ksh From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Mar 27 18:00:41 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <002101c0b637$b89b0ec0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <004701c0b71a$211aa180$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> ----- Original Message ----- From: Billy D'Augustine To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:59 PM Subject: Mac SE/30 > their ftp site, but that begs the question - how do I create MacOS disks if > I lack a Mac to create them? You can use something called HFVexplorer (or something like that) that can format and write 400k,800k and 1.4M Mac format disks on PC running windows. Search the net for it, its free. It works, I have used it before. Claude From azog at azog.org Mon Mar 26 18:09:40 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: Message-ID: <000901c0b652$38050340$0a00a8c0@azog> *shrug* Does anyone have a system floppy that they can send me? > if that don't work, you'll need to find a system > floppy to boot from so you can mount the hard drive and take a look around. > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 26 18:14:20 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <002101c0b637$b89b0ec0$0a00a8c0@azog> References: <002101c0b637$b89b0ec0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: >I think I recall seeing somewhere that you can bypass extensions on bootup >by pressing a shift key, but that didn't work, so I assume that this isn't >an extension, but something intergral into the OS itself... I don't believe that any Mac OS version prior to 9.0 came with an integrated password system. Obviously, the SE/30 isn't running OS 9.0 since it is a 68k Mac and support for the non-PPC machines was dropped a number of revisions back. When you booted the SE/30 with the shift-key held down, did it show you on the splash screen 'Extensions Off' or did it seemingly boot normally, showing the icons along the bottom as it booted? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 26 18:18:03 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: NeXT's available In-Reply-To: <3ABFFF3B.B2EF3B5C@atari-history.com> from Curt Vendel at "Mar 26, 1 06:47:23 pm" Message-ID: <200103270018.QAA09406@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Hi Curt: I'd definitely be interested in one of the Nextstations/monitors. My zip is 92324 so that should be worst case as far as shipping :-) Thanks, -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The optimum committee has no members. -- Norman Augustine ------------------ From azog at azog.org Mon Mar 26 18:49:44 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <002101c0b637$b89b0ec0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <002001c0b657$d15b3780$0a00a8c0@azog> This is what it is doing, it is showing the icons on the bottom of the screen during boot, even while I hold the shift key down. > When you booted the > SE/30 with the shift-key held down, did it show you on the splash > screen 'Extensions Off' or did it seemingly boot normally, showing > the icons along the bottom as it booted? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Mar 26 19:17:43 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <002001c0b657$d15b3780$0a00a8c0@azog> from Billy D'Augustine at "Mar 26, 1 07:49:44 pm" Message-ID: <200103270117.RAA04006@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This is what it is doing, it is showing the icons on the bottom of the > screen during boot, even while I hold the shift key down. I wonder -- do you have At Ease running? What does the password window requestor look like? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Never eat more than you can lift. -- Miss Piggy ---------------------------- From jss at ou.edu Mon Mar 26 19:23:59 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: NeXT's available References: <3ABFFF3B.B2EF3B5C@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <000801c0b65c$99f460f0$0a01a8c0@station1> > The guy with the NeXTs got back to me, they are ours, I'll buy the > whole lot for $1,000 and truck it home, I already have dibs on the 1st > cube, the other cube was spoken for by the first person who responded > to me a few days back, a bunch of guys want nextstations and monitors > and such, I'll compose a running list of who's getting what, reply if > your interested in a nextstation and we'll work on the pricing and such, > I figure it should be around $30-$40 per person plus shipping to where > ever they are from NYC. I want a NeXTstation, monitor, keyboard, and mouse. My zip is 73069. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Mar 26 19:23:29 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <004701c0b71a$211aa180$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Claude.W wrote: > You can use something called HFVexplorer (or something like that) that can > format and write 400k,800k and 1.4M Mac format disks on PC running windows. > Search the net for it, its free. It works, I have used it before. Doing 1.4M Mac format on a PC is a relatively straightforward, albeit definitely non-trivial, task of implementing an alien file system. But doing 400K and 800K Mac formats on stock PC hardware would be VERY interesting, as it is not possible to get PC FDCs to do those forms of recording. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Mar 26 19:37:54 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: z80 CPM C compiler (free) Message-ID: <200103270137.SAA13370@calico.litterbox.com> Just stumbled across this and thought the CPM folk might find it useful. http://www.htsoft.com/software/cpm/index.html It's a C compiler by a cross-compiler maker. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From schoedel at kw.igs.net Mon Mar 26 19:43:41 2001 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: On 2001/03/26 at 10:59am -0800, RebelTerry wrote: >I'm new to the group. Does anyone have any information on the old HP >9845 desktop computers, specifically, if any working units still exist? I have one that works, except that I haven't looked at the tape drives and the rollers have most likely melted. I'm pretty sure at least one other list regular has one. At 8:37pm +0100 2001/03/26, Tony Duell wrote: >How strange is the HP disk format? I know that the HP disk drive could at >least read IBM3740 disks. Were the HP disks also FM recorded? > >I have one of the disk drives (9885 IIRC), but no real information on it. >And I remember there being an HP custom 40 pin chip on one of the boards >that looked to be a CPU type thing. I have the 9885 service manual, which I'm pretty sure has schematics... I'll try to get it out and check this weekend. At 6:09am +1000 2001/03/27, Phil Guerney wrote: >I was told by the HP experts on this list when I first asked (a year or two >ago) that there is no way known to hook up an external monitor in place of >the original that plugged into those two special ports on the top of the >9845. But you would think that this monitor was basically a standard TTL or >analogue monitior of some sort and that someone might have the technical >details to wire a replacement from the plugs? I have the service manual for the 9845B too (is yours a B or C?), but it definitely does not have schematics; it's at the subassembly-swapping level. It might have the specifications and pinouts, though; again, I'll try to look it up this weekend. (Someone remind me privately in a week if I haven't.) -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Mar 26 20:08:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <200103270117.RAA04006@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Mar 26, 2001 05:17:43 PM Message-ID: <200103270208.SAA17576@shell1.aracnet.com> > > This is what it is doing, it is showing the icons on the bottom of the > > screen during boot, even while I hold the shift key down. > > I wonder -- do you have At Ease running? What does the password window > requestor look like? It sounds more like something along the lines of "Disk Lock" or "Folder Bolt". Zane From kyhansen at speakeasy.net Mon Mar 26 20:05:33 2001 From: kyhansen at speakeasy.net (Obi-Wan@MacHeretics.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: [Fwd: NeXT's available] References: Message-ID: <3ABFF56C.B90ADC59@speakeasy.net> I'm in for a complete station. I know the cubes are spoken for. Kyle Hansen From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Mar 27 20:20:02 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: Message-ID: <001d01c0b72d$98de7120$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Another simple way to get files to non built in ethernet macs like SE30s, Classic IIs and such that only have built in Appletalk is to run a Ethernet---Appletalk bridge off a more recent 68k mac thats got ethernet and then connect the non-ethernet macs to there with Appletalk. Very practical and speed is not a concern because most of the times the files going to compact classic macs are quite small in size... I run this off a 6100/66 permanently attached to my home network... Works great for loading up small compact macs with software from the net... The software is free off the Apple ftp site. I have used it many times and it works fine... Have fun ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 8:23 PM Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Claude.W wrote: > > You can use something called HFVexplorer (or something like that) that can > > format and write 400k,800k and 1.4M Mac format disks on PC running windows. > > Search the net for it, its free. It works, I have used it before. > > Doing 1.4M Mac format on a PC is a relatively straightforward, albeit > definitely non-trivial, task of implementing an alien file system. > > But doing 400K and 800K Mac formats on stock PC hardware would be VERY > interesting, as it is not possible to get PC FDCs to do those forms of > recording. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Mar 26 20:27:17 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: [Fwd: NeXT's available] Message-ID: <48.1366cbc1.27f15486@aol.com> In a message dated Mon, 26 Mar 2001 9:20:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Obi-Wan@MacHeretics.com" writes: << I'm in for a complete station. I know the cubes are spoken for. Kyle Hansen >> Just a thought, but does anyone on the list have the OS for these beasties? I just checked and NetBSD isn't quite ready for prime time on them yet, and neither is Linux unfortunately... -Linc Fessenden From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Mar 26 20:49:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: z80 CPM C compiler (free) Message-ID: <007c01c0b668$e330e3e0$67759a8d@ajp166> From: Jim Strickland >Just stumbled across this and thought the CPM folk might find it useful. >http://www.htsoft.com/software/cpm/index.html > >It's a C compiler by a cross-compiler maker. Good reminder, it's been available for several years (its on the WC Cdrom c1994). Hi-tech C compiler is one of the better ones for the CP/M OS. Allison From schoedel at kw.igs.net Mon Mar 26 20:49:33 2001 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: On 2001/03/27 at 6:09am +1000, "Phil Guerney" wrote: >I was told by the HP experts on this list when I first asked (a year or two >ago) that there is no way known to hook up an external monitor in place of >the original that plugged into those two special ports on the top of the >9845. OK, I got curious and found the manuals. The short answer: you're screwed. >But you would think that this monitor was basically a standard TTL or >analogue monitior of some sort and that someone might have the technical >details to wire a replacement from the plugs? Major parts of the display logic (character generator etc.) are in the monitor case, not the main box. >A bit hard to use without the >monitor unfortunately and in 1980 this was my most DESIRED computer, so I >would love to get this one going again. Apparently, you need only attach a "turn-on fixture", part 09845-66547, to the left monitor leg, execute "PRINT ALL IS 0", and press the 'PRT ALL' key: then you can use the machine with the printer alone... yeah, good luck finding one. -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Mar 26 21:09:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: [Fwd: NeXT's available] In-Reply-To: <48.1366cbc1.27f15486@aol.com> References: <48.1366cbc1.27f15486@aol.com> Message-ID: >Just a thought, but does anyone on the list have the OS for these >beasties? I just checked and NetBSD isn't quite ready for prime >time on them yet, and neither is Linux unfortunately... I've got NeXTstep 3.3, the Academic bundle. NeXTsetp 3.0 is still available from Black Hole Inc. for $20. It has some interesting stuff left off the future OS version CD's. Black Hole is also one of the only places that actually still supports the NeXT and he has quite a bit of hardware. I picked up a really nice bright color monitor for my slab from him a while back. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Mar 26 21:48:07 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Vax 6000 Website update. Message-ID: <002301c0b670$bcd5e260$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Hi All, http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax Minor updates to the Vax 6000 Website. http://www.stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au/vax Additions/Reformatting/Corrections to the Adapter listings. Thanks to Antonio Carlini for feeding me some tables of data that have now been integrated. There are now 2 Adapter pages, one for BI and one for XMI. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From vcf at siconic.com Mon Mar 26 20:38:42 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Jim Brick's (of Mick & Brick) website found Message-ID: Here's the URL to Jim Brick's website. As many of you may well know, Brick was co-author of _Bit-Slice Microprocessor Design_ with John Mick. http://www.brick.org/jim/ Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 26 17:07:03 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:26 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <004701c0b71a$211aa180$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <20010327040638.GKLG24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Claude.W" > To: > Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:00:41 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Billy D'Augustine > To: > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:59 PM > Subject: Mac SE/30 > > > > their ftp site, but that begs the question - how do I create MacOS disks > if > > I lack a Mac to create them? > > You can use something called HFVexplorer (or something like that) that can > format and write 400k,800k and 1.4M Mac format disks on PC running windows. > Search the net for it, its free. It works, I have used it before. 1.44 yes, 800/400 no! Needs Mac /w superdrive for that. Copy them via sneakernet or move them over the 'net via basilisk II and HVF explorer. That program is properly called HVF explorer. If the disk is raw image, use rawrite. That works. Wizard > > Claude > > > > From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Mar 26 22:49:55 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: NeXT's available In-Reply-To: <3ABFFF3B.B2EF3B5C@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <200103270449.f2R4n0c24160@grover.winsite.com> I don't know if you got my message from yesterday, but I'm in for a station. Let me know how much. Thanks for your efforts. > Hi, > > The guy with the NeXTs got back to me, they are ours, I'll buy the > whole lot > for $1,000 and truck it home, I already have dibs on the 1st cube, the > other cube was spoken for by the first person who responded to me a > few days back, a bunch of guys want nextstations and monitors and > such, I'll compose a running list of who's getting what, reply if your > interested in a nextstation and we'll work on the pricing and such, I > figure it should be around $30-$40 per person plus shipping to where > ever they are from NYC. > > > > Curt > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From edick at idcomm.com Mon Mar 26 23:43:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard References: Message-ID: <002701c0b680$cc959c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about 10 of the boxes I have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I seldom see that one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. The Morse board, IIRC, was not an early one requiring a setup diskette, having given it some thought. In fact, the Morse board I have/had was quite small in size and was a later '286 version. The only '286 I still keep up is an old 25 MHz NEAT chipset-based one with a Harris processor. I've got some software from a former employer that operates the NEAT chipset quite well to enable the upper memory blocks, thereby enabling the load of drivers between the adapter ROMs. That leaves enough memory after loading a few drivers that one can still do something in the reamining contiguous lower memory. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:08 PM Subject: Re: i286-Mainboard > If the BIOS type can be identified, that will be a great help in knowing to > how access the configuration utility; AMI is pressing delete during memory > count, award is control+alt+F10, and so forth. > > In a message dated 3/26/01 3:07:18 PM Central Standard Time, edick@idcomm.com > writes: > > << I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST > sequence to > enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup diskette to do the > setup of > the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. > > To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, there's usually a > Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If > there's no > TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available somewhere, and > these connections are normally located in the lower left region of the board > (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the upper right, for > reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you don't have one, or > that > it's not present/supported on the motherboard? > > I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe it to be operable > at > 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything about the support > chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 around here > someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more likely it's a board > that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you never know ... > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mario Premke" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:22 PM > Subject: i286-Mainboard > > > > > > Hi, I have a 'Morse Technologies KP 286HF' mainboard with > > an AMD-Processor - the board works, but I don't have the slightest > > idea about the jumper settings ... I put 4 MB in it, but it only > > recognizes 640Kb and I assume, that for clocking it to 12Mhz the > > (not available) Turbo-Button should be pressed ?!? > > For any hints or links to manuals I would be very glad ... > > Cheers, > > Mario > > >> > > From RebelTerry at home.net Mon Mar 26 23:50:16 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: References: <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <20010327054909.CKAU3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Thanks for the feedback! A friend told me he saw an HP BASIC to C translator somewhere. If someone has a 9845 that could read my disks (or maybe tapes) and print them out on the built-in thermal printer, I could at least OCR the listing and try recreating the code in C. Guess that's the next best thing to finding a living -45. Another problem is our game stuff was all very high end. Even if I found a working machine, would it have the Fast Language Processor, and the I/O, Graphics, Assembly Language, and other ROMs we had? So, can anyone help me pull off the listings? (I'll send you free copies of the games, once they work!) Thanks. RT From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Mar 27 00:10:24 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: New HP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010322220445.34f747dc@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 10:04:45PM -0500 References: <3.0.1.16.20010322220445.34f747dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20010327091024.A788@sd160.local> On Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 10:04:45PM -0500, Joe wrote: > I went scrounging again today and found a new source of old computers. > There I found and passed up a HP 9000 835 and a HP 9836A. BUT I did bring > home a HP 9000 520 (aka HP 9020). :-) You lucky, lucky, b^Hcollector!! > I used to think the HP 9845 was big > and heavy but not any more! I don't know much about the 520 except that > they were supposed to be the replacement for the HP 9845 but had > developement problems and were very late getting into production and few of > them were sold. I believe it has BASIC in ROM but I'm not sure. Does anyone > have docs for these? It has two HP-IB cables that are connected internally > and a 15 pin socket under the front edge. What are they for? I picked up a > HP 9153 hard drive that was in the same box with the 520. I'm hoping that > there's software for the 520 on it. > >From http://www.gaby.de/e9ktxt.htm "The HP 9000 Series 520 also had several built-in I/O devices: a display, which could be either color or monochrome, a keyboard, a floppy-disk drive, an optional internal thermal printer mounted below the display, and an internal hard disk"\ I'm guessing the 15-pin socket is for the keyboard. or maybe not. Try loading HP-UX on it and see how it goes.. -- jht From donm at cts.com Tue Mar 27 00:53:49 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: <002701c0b680$cc959c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about 10 of the boxes I > have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I seldom see that > one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. Phoenix also used CTRL-ALT-ESC on some of the 286s that they provided BIOS for. - don > The Morse board, IIRC, was not an early one requiring a setup diskette, having > given it some thought. In fact, the Morse board I have/had was quite small in > size and was a later '286 version. > > The only '286 I still keep up is an old 25 MHz NEAT chipset-based one with a > Harris processor. I've got some software from a former employer that operates > the NEAT chipset quite well to enable the upper memory blocks, thereby enabling > the load of drivers between the adapter ROMs. > That leaves enough memory after loading a few drivers that one can still do > something in the reamining contiguous lower memory. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:08 PM > Subject: Re: i286-Mainboard > > > > If the BIOS type can be identified, that will be a great help in knowing to > > how access the configuration utility; AMI is pressing delete during memory > > count, award is control+alt+F10, and so forth. > > > > In a message dated 3/26/01 3:07:18 PM Central Standard Time, edick@idcomm.com > > writes: > > > > << I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST > > sequence to > > enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup diskette to do the > > setup of > > the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. > > > > To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, there's usually a > > Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If > > there's no > > TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available somewhere, and > > these connections are normally located in the lower left region of the board > > (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the upper right, for > > reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you don't have one, or > > that > > it's not present/supported on the motherboard? > > > > I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe it to be operable > > at > > 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything about the support > > chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 around here > > someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more likely it's a board > > that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you never know ... > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mario Premke" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:22 PM > > Subject: i286-Mainboard > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I have a 'Morse Technologies KP 286HF' mainboard with > > > an AMD-Processor - the board works, but I don't have the slightest > > > idea about the jumper settings ... I put 4 MB in it, but it only > > > recognizes 640Kb and I assume, that for clocking it to 12Mhz the > > > (not available) Turbo-Button should be pressed ?!? > > > For any hints or links to manuals I would be very glad ... > > > Cheers, > > > Mario > > > >> > > > > > > From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Tue Mar 27 01:35:08 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems Message-ID: <9237.985678508@www37.gmx.net> New details on the SUN networking issue became available yesterday evening when the second SUN decided to boot once more (we still don't know how that's possible as it had claimed to have lost its battery-buffered Setup information last time we powered it up a few months ago). However, both SUNs' transceivers and the cable work as each SUN can detect the other's presence. The printer cannot be pinged or sent data to, no matter which SUN tries or to which of the both remaining transceivers it is connected. Peter Turnbull wrote: >Have you tried pinging the printer by it's IP address instead of >it's name? Try a broadcast ping? No, not yet, but I will when I get home in the evening. Luckily, I found the IP adresses in a stack of handwritten papers we were given together with all that stuff. As we're not too familiar with the commands, how is a broadcast ping done? >Have you checked the printer settings to make sure it's using the >correct IP address? Is that set from its panel, or by RARP/BOOTP/ >DHCP? If the latter, it needs a server to boot. Tony Duell wrote: >That printer isn't attempting to get information (IP address, >software, whatever) from a server, is it? We're trying hard at the moment to find the printer manual. We know we have it somewhere, but it's buried... Peter Turnbull wrote: >If the Sun didn't get a valid signal from the transceiver when it >booted, it might not have enabled le0, or there might not be a route >through it. >Not necessarily, it might not have brought up the le0 interface if the >AUI cable was disconnected when it powered up. We switched off everything before reconnecting the cable and when we booted the next time, we did not get any le0 errors. Besides, the SUNs can see each other over the network, so the connection must be enabled. >However, if there is an LED for either transmit or receive, it >should flash when you try a ping. If it doesn't, either the Sun >isn't sending the packet or there's a short circuit. >Both LEDs? I'm guessing as to what the LEDs do, but that probably >means it's transmitting something. Maybe an ARP or BOOTP request. >It depends on what the LEDs do. One might be for collision, in >which case there's a cable fault if it flashes. More likely one is >transmit and the other receive, in which case what you see is >correct, it transmits a packet and simultaneously detects what it's >transmitting. >Hmm... What are the LEDs on the transceivers labelled? Mine have 5 >LEDs: Power, SQE, Transmit, Receive, and Collision. (I also have >several transceivers with no LEDs, or just one for power, but none >with three.) No, there isn't. The LEDs on the transceivers are only PWR (Power), SQE (as on yours) and COL (which must be Collision). Nothing for TX or RX, although that would be much more helpful for troubleshooting. -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Tue Mar 27 02:04:50 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: <003901c0b637$8aff0840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST sequence to > enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup diskette to do the setup of > the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. Yes, I get into the CMOS-Setup, but in there I cannot change the values for memory and when I switch the power on the BIOS only tests the first 640Kb of memory ... > To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, there's usually a > Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If there's no > TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available somewhere, and > these connections are normally located in the lower left region of the board > (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the upper right, for > reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you don't have one, or that > it's not present/supported on the motherboard? I put the board into a modern AT-Box - there's no turbo button or turbo-LED. > I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe it to be operable at > 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything about the support > chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 around here The clock on the board shows 24Mhz, so I assume the the CPU works at 12Mhz. I don't have the board right here and I cannot remember what chip set is used. > someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more likely it's a board > that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you never know ... There's a web-site mentioning the board, but the link to some manuals is a dead link :-((( Cheers, Mario From RebelTerry at home.net Tue Mar 27 02:20:17 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: <200103270643.WAA21296@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20010327081910.GWMN3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> > How did you come to write games for the 9845 anyway? Did you sell them? > It's not exactly the most popular game platform. Well, this friend and I worked at NASA JSC. We were shuttle flight controllers in the early STS days, including STS-1. (You should see my collection of stuff from the first shuttle flight!) In our off hours, we played with the 9845, writing games: lunar landing simulator (which I did rewrite into C++ and still play), submarine search and destroy (which I rewrote and was published by Broderbund Software as "Search and Destroy", car race, solitaire, blackjack, Star Trek, GREAT baseball and 1-on-1 basketball games, and several others. FAR better than anything on the market in the early 80s. (Of course, that's the advantage of having a $70,000 machine at your disposal!) Never sold them. I left NASA in '82 (to come to Boeing) and interviewed an HP rep from Corvallis, showed her all the great stuff. Her response: "Outstanding! How about coming to work for us and writing aero engineer software for wind tunnel testing and such?" No thanks. > And do you have any other fun toys in your collection? I'm being nosy since > we're both in Seattle. Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. And some games I wrote for that. I'm heartbroken that I threw out my original DOS 1.0 disks/book back in about '84, when DOS 2.1 came out. (I do still have all the 2.1 disks & books.) So, if anyone knows where I could beg, borrow, or steal a DOS 1.0... ;-} BTW, my wife's uncle still has his original IBM PC Jr, complete with chicklet keyboard. Gonna half to try to scam him out of that. > BtW, whenever I try to mail to RebelTerry@home.net, I get a message saying > "Relaying denied". I have to use tlb55@home.net instead. No idea what's going on there. Relaying bumps usually happen when the sender tries going through the wrong SMTP server. Don't know why the other would work. > P.S. If the BASIC listing uses keywords in optional ROMs, and the working > machine doesn't have those ROMs, what happens when you try to print out the > listing? Good question.... Thanks. RT From mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de Tue Mar 27 02:19:20 2001 From: mapr0003 at stud.uni-sb.de (Mario Premke) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about 10 of the boxes I > > have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I seldom see that > > one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. > > Phoenix also used CTRL-ALT-ESC on some of the 286s that they provided > BIOS for. It's an Ami Bios - the DEL key is used for going into the Configuration Setup - BUT inside the Setup I cannot change the values for the amount of memory, which I suppose is detected in the POST-routine ... I don't know if it's a good idea to test all possible jumper settings in the nearer area of the memory slots ;-) From tlb55 at home.net Tue Mar 27 02:21:57 2001 From: tlb55 at home.net (Terry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: New HP In-Reply-To: <20010327091024.A788@sd160.local> References: <3.0.1.16.20010322220445.34f747dc@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Thu, Mar 22, 2001 at 10:04:45PM -0500 Message-ID: <20010327082050.DLE14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> > > There I found and passed up a HP 9000 835 and a HP 9836A. BUT I did > > bring home a HP 9000 520 (aka HP 9020). :-) Can a 9000-520 read 9845 disks/tapes? I'll ask my ex-NASA buddies if they still have any 9000 stuff. (They replaced our 9845 with those right after I left.) RT From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Tue Mar 27 02:41:10 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Free - 17" Sun Sony Tinitron Monitor but.... Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361111@exch002.softwright.co.uk> > I have a 17 inch Sony monitor (model GDM-1950) free to anyone who wants to > pick it up. The catch, it has a sync(?) problem and therefore doesn't > display anything very well. Beautiful (and huge and heavy) - if you can fix > it you'll have a great monitor. Email or call for info. Has to be out of > here in the next two weeks. Hmm, I've got a 16" version of one of these which I use now and again - the picture quality is far superior to most of the junk out there these days (I guess these things almost hit the 10 year mark? I believe mine was dated around '92) They work well under Linux if you're prepared to do a bit of tweaking of video modes - no need for a special graphics board. I believe I got mine working under DOS a few years ago with an old Trident video board too - one of the larger-column text modes happened to work with it nicely. there's quite a bit of tweaking that can be done inside the monitor too (be careful, obviously) if you're prepared for a few hours of suffering! Maybe someone knows what the options are for converting a fixed-frequency monitor to multisync? (Tony??) - can this even be done, is it way too much trouble etc.? Presumably fixed-frequency and multisync monitors are 90% the same inside (at least in concept)? Certainly the big old workstation monitors I've seen inside of seemed to be nicely broken into stages... cheers Jules From mike.kuehn at bitways.de Tue Mar 27 02:20:35 2001 From: mike.kuehn at bitways.de (Kuehn, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Urgent Inquiry for ghetto blaster Message-ID: <4150E5D6CFDBD311932800D0B7236A1022ED9A@bitwayspdc001.hh.de.bitways.intern> Urgent Inquiry for ghetto blaster Dear Sirs, We are an international trading company, mainly serving the European industry. The Bitways Group purchases globally on own account and then resells the products to various clients. Our aim is to source globally and to offer our clients the best prices worldwide. >From one of our own or rented databases we have retrieved your address as potential supplier of the product(s) we would like to purchase at this time. If you can promptly give us your very best quote you might be chosen as the supplier we have been looking for as early as next week. Please offer any kind of stocklots you might have available. Please provide 3 (three) samples for evaluation purposes. Please let us know your best quote as this will enable us to work more efficiently. In conclusion I would like to ask you to send your company?s detailed address, your bank detail, your VAT number (if applicable) and pictures of the inquired item(s) along with your quotation. If you can not reach us by e-Mail (Please check if your provider is listed at the ORBS-list. If so your e-Mails are not being forwarded to us!) please print the e-Mail and fax it to +49-40-28800-111. Looking forward to hearing from you soon, we are Yours sincerely, BITWAYS GLOBAL SOURCING GMBH M.Kuehn Global Sourcing Manager Team Blue Hohe Br?cke 1 Haus der Seefahrt D-20459 Hamburg Tel.++49(0)40/28800-301 Telefax.++49(0)40/28800-401 E-mail:mike.kuehn@bitways.de www.bitways.de BITWAYS GLOBAL SOURCING GMBH M.Kuehn Global Sourcing Manager Team Blue Hohe Br?cke 1 Haus der Seefahrt D-20459 Hamburg Tel.++49(0)40/28800-301 Telefax.++49(0)40/28800-401 E-mail:mike.kuehn@bitways.de www.bitways.de From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 04:33:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: <002701c0b680$cc959c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <002701c0b680$cc959c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about 10 of >the boxes I >have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I >seldom see that >one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. There were some odd combinations such as , which was used by Zenith on their 286 powered Z-248's, as well as the software based programs such as those used by Tandy and others. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Mar 27 04:31:56 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And some used CTRL-ALT-ENTER. There's also a utility to get into most 286 BIOS's and adjust settings, I'll have to see where I stashed my copy. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:54 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: i286-Mainboard > > > > > On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about > 10 of the boxes I > > have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I > seldom see that > > one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. > > Phoenix also used CTRL-ALT-ESC on some of the 286s that they provided > BIOS for. > - don > > > The Morse board, IIRC, was not an early one requiring a setup > diskette, having > > given it some thought. In fact, the Morse board I have/had was > quite small in > > size and was a later '286 version. > > > > The only '286 I still keep up is an old 25 MHz NEAT > chipset-based one with a > > Harris processor. I've got some software from a former > employer that operates > > the NEAT chipset quite well to enable the upper memory blocks, > thereby enabling > > the load of drivers between the adapter ROMs. > > That leaves enough memory after loading a few drivers that one > can still do > > something in the reamining contiguous lower memory. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:08 PM > > Subject: Re: i286-Mainboard > > > > > > > If the BIOS type can be identified, that will be a great help > in knowing to > > > how access the configuration utility; AMI is pressing delete > during memory > > > count, award is control+alt+F10, and so forth. > > > > > > In a message dated 3/26/01 3:07:18 PM Central Standard Time, > edick@idcomm.com > > > writes: > > > > > > << I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST > > > sequence to > > > enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup > diskette to do the > > > setup of > > > the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. > > > > > > To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, > there's usually a > > > Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If > > > there's no > > > TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available > somewhere, and > > > these connections are normally located in the lower left > region of the board > > > (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the > upper right, for > > > reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you > don't have one, or > > > that > > > it's not present/supported on the motherboard? > > > > > > I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe > it to be operable > > > at > > > 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything > about the support > > > chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 > around here > > > someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more > likely it's a board > > > that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you > never know ... > > > > > > Dick > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mario Premke" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 1:22 PM > > > Subject: i286-Mainboard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, I have a 'Morse Technologies KP 286HF' mainboard with > > > > an AMD-Processor - the board works, but I don't have the slightest > > > > idea about the jumper settings ... I put 4 MB in it, but it only > > > > recognizes 640Kb and I assume, that for clocking it to 12Mhz the > > > > (not available) Turbo-Button should be pressed ?!? > > > > For any hints or links to manuals I would be very glad ... > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mario > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > From guerney at bigpond.com Tue Mar 27 05:17:27 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a><001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <006401c0b6af$84d111c0$7937fea9@Guerney> ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Schoedel > >I was told by the HP experts on this list when I first asked (a year or two > >ago) that there is no way known to hook up an external monitor in place of > >the original that plugged into those two special ports on the top of the > >9845. > Apparently, you need only attach a "turn-on fixture", part 09845-66547, > to the left monitor leg, execute "PRINT ALL IS 0", and press the 'PRT > ALL' key: then you can use the machine with the printer alone... yeah, > good luck finding one. From guerney at bigpond.com Tue Mar 27 05:20:51 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a><001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <008201c0b6af$fe8169c0$7937fea9@Guerney> Great, a way out. To the list in general - if anyone ever comes across a HP Part 09845-66547, pleeeeese get it for me! Thanks Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Schoedel ::On 2001/03/27 at 6:09am +1000, "Phil Guerney" wrote: ::I was told by the HP experts on this list when I first asked (a year or two ::ago) that there is no way known to hook up an external monitor in place of ::the original that plugged into those two special ports on the top of the ::9845. : Apparently, you need only attach a "turn-on fixture", part 09845-66547, : to the left monitor leg, execute "PRINT ALL IS 0", and press the 'PRT : ALL' key: then you can use the machine with the printer alone... yeah, : good luck finding one. PS Sorry for the previous post that went without my own words added to the quote. I'm not handling Outlook Express real well the last 24 hours. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 27 06:19:43 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Boot disk / CP/M set for Morrow Micro-decision (MD2) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010327041842.02c88b40@mail.zipcon.net> I have one of these beasties and it has 1 dying floppy with part of CP/M with it. I'd like to get a full copy of cp/m for this. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Mar 27 06:39:22 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: NeXT's, museums and a dead apple monitor Message-ID: <01Mar27.140052bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> >Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:18:03 -0800 (PST) >From: Cameron Kaiser >Subject: Re: NeXT's available > >Hi Curt: > >I'd definitely be interested in one of the Nextstations/monitors. My >zip is 92324 so that should be worst case as far as shipping :-) > >Thanks, Naaah, worse case as far as this list is concerned would be me in the UK or Iggy :) As for the recent banter about museums while we were researching the history of our house last week while I was on the tail end of a break because of depression and stress I had a wander round the 'computer' section of the museum - the archives section is part of the museum - and all it consisted of was an old teletype printer, a PET and a ZX81 all massively enclosed in glass cases! I'm in a quandry as to what to do when I eventually DO start exhibiting my stuff. If *I* was going to a computer museum I'd like to be able to use the machines as much as possible, but since it's all *my* stuff I'm paranoid about theft/damage etc since some of the machines took sweating blood to get here - my Lisa is a prime example. Also some of the machines are unused and still bagged up from when they were manufactured and I'm in two minds as to whether I should open 'em for educational purposes or keep 'em sealed for museum purposes. (Tony, I *know* you'd want to get them open :o)) I tinker with as much of the collection as is possible given the amount of time I've actually got spare (not a lot) for self-educational and research purposes; definitely not enough time though..... Oh yeah, I got a 1995 AppleVision 1710 monitor last weekend and I get no display on it; since it's the first one and not a later one can I safely assume it's suffered the most common fault for 1710s and I need a new Wave Deflection module? I think that's what it was called...... Recent additions to the museum site are some unopened Timex Sinclair stuff and a whole slew of adverts and reviews from a couple of early 80s UK mags - wallow in nostalgia :) s'it for now. cheers! -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 06:57:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <20010323215813.C28348@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <858.486T2800T8376289optimus@canit.se> Rich Lafferty skrev: >On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 09:33:17AM +0100, Iggy Drougge (optimus@canit.se) >wrote: >> Jeff Hellige skrev: >> >> > For flexibility, I actually like the AAUI design. >> >> What particular flexibility is offered by the AAUI design as opposed to the >> common AUI? >Oh, well, let me tell you! Compared to the AUI connector I have in >front of me, the AAUI connector has four inches of *very* flexible >cable. :-) Considering the fact that you're free to add several metres of cable to an AUI port, I don't see that as any major advatage. =? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 07:01:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1553.486T400T8413597optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>What particular flexibility is offered by the AAUI design as opposed to the >>common AUI? > It's not so much the AAUI having features that AUI doesn't, >but I much prefer the smaller connector, the easier 'pinch' lock >release vice the cumbersome slide-release on the AUI and the smaller >tranciever size of AAUI boxes, though obviously it could just be that >I've not seen that many AUI tranceivers and the ones I have seen have >been pretty large. Otherwise they seem to have similar status >displays and would appear to do much the same job. I do like the >flexibility of having a single connector that, with the addition of >the proper dongle, can be used with either 10base-T or 10base-2 >ethernet connections. A nicer design than trying to cram 2-3 >different connectors on a single ISA slot plate, such as 3COM does >with their various cards. Then again I'm sure there are those that >see it the opposite and are happy to have the various connectors >without having to fool with the external tranceiver. Well, transceivers do have the tendency to fall off their mounting point... =) As for the size of AUI transceivers, they have been absolutely gargantuan once upon a time. We've got a BULL 10B2 transceiver connected to a pocket hub at the usergroup, and the transceiver actually dwarfs the hub! Then again, I have a stack of pocket transceivers which are actually smaller than my AAUI ones. The cable is a nice addition, though. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computer programmers know how to use their hardware. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 07:10:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2276.486T1150T8505191optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >OK, these drives are non-stnadard enough that you can't plug them >straight into a PC's floppy controller. But that's not really what I was >talking about. Thing is, I can take a floppy disk from one of the HP >units, put it in a PC drive, and read/write to it using the right >software. There is no way a PC can read an original Apple Mac disk. Yoiu're so PC-centric. Since there really weren't any PCs with 3,5" floppy drives, that was a moot point. The Amiga used a format of its own as well, thoiugh not as involved as the Mac's, and I'm glad it did, since an extra hundred kays of space, not to mention a nice file system, was a nice bonus back in the day. >And I am quite sure that what most users would care about is being able >to transfer files (even just text) between their machine and their >cow-orker's machine. Which might be in another town, or another country, >so you can't set them up next to each other with a null-modem cable. Couldn't the original Macs read PC disks using Apple file exchange or similar programs? >> >> As for both the SCSI connector and the serial ports, the main >> reason I can see for Apple doing it the way they did was due to space >> constraints on the rear of the compact form-factor Mac's. There just >I still think the correct solution to that is to use a bigger case. I >have never understood this love of making things small, especially not >when there are good technical reasons not to do so. If you live in a 17 m? flat like I do, you'll come to appreciate such things. =) >THere are good reasons for having a ground wire between every signal wire >on the SCSI bus. Which you can't do if you have a DB25 connector. I think >youy can come _close_ if you use a DC37, but I've never seen that >connector used for SCSI. Nor have I ever seen the DB44 (yes, it does >exist) used for SCSI, which, being the same shell size as the DB25, would >bave been an obvious choice. Or they could have employed something like the micro DB-50, as seen on more modern systems. To add insult to injury, there were other SCSI manufacturers who used DB25 pinouts of their own. And what about the dangerous serial ports of the non-ADB models? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Give your child mental blocks for Christmas. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 07:17:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2036.486T300T8574405optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>The Apple II floppy was incredibly ingenious, and a great value, the Mac >>floppy the biggest ripoff this side of mil/nasa. That stinking floppy drive >>was $170 from Apple until it was discontinued, and nothing but the Apple >>unit will work in a mac. > Given how 'dumb' the PC floppy is though, it's easy to see >why you couldn't just pop one into the Mac. Mac floppies, like Amiga >floppies, automatically update the OS upon insertion or removal of a >disk. Mac floppies also are under OS control for ejecting the disks >automatically. Obviously there are considerable differences between >the two platforms then as far as the floppy drives are concerned, >which is why one can't just pop a PC drive into an Amiga either. Not >all platforms use passive components that require user intervention >at all times. But you can flop a PC drive into an Amiga, as long as you stick to DD. >>PCI slots were the straw that annoyed this camel beyond anything else. A >>huge portion of the reason I bought a PCI mac was compatibility with a >>standard after many years of suffering nubus price gouging and neglect. But >>NO, it isn't freaking compatible with anything PC PCI, and over the > Apple can't be blamed for the lack of drivers for various >cards though. I have used any number of PC PCI boards in my PCI >Mac's, including USB, Firewire and video boards. The slots >themselves are compliant with the PCI standard. It's just a matter >of lacking 3rd party drivers. Creative Labs is releasing a Mac >version of it's SB Live, NVidia has done Mac versions of it's >Geoforce boards, 3Dfx did Mac versions of it's Voodoo4 and Voodoo5 >boards just before they went under, and Adaptec has done Mac versions >of many of it's SCSI boards. Exactly, blame the HW bastards. But can anyone explain why there are so many Mac-specific PCI video cards? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have the most thorough test guy in the world... I showed him this program and he asked, 'but Rob, what if time runs backward?' From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 07:26:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <672.486T2950T8666719optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >> >Last year on this list the ZX81/TS1000 was voted "least expandable". >> >Now, I >>>don't mean this to be flame-bait, but can someone please explain to me how >>>the ZX81/TS1000 could, by any stretch of the imagination, win the prize in >>>the "least expandable" category???? >> >>Because it hasn't got any expansion ports? > But it does...the port on the rear that the 16k RAM pack >plugs up to. Printers and all plugged up to that edge connector. Sorry, I must have been thinking of the ZX80. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Es gibt zweierlei M?dchen: die einen, die Pullover stricken, und die anderen, die sie ausf?llen. --- Daliah Lavi From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Mar 27 07:30:10 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard Message-ID: <9f.131cc2e8.27f1efe2@aol.com> In a message dated 3/27/01 3:32:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, mapr0003@stud.uni-sb.de writes: > > On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about 10 of > the boxes I > > > have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I seldom > see that > > > one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. > > > > Phoenix also used CTRL-ALT-ESC on some of the 286s that they provided > > BIOS for. > > It's an Ami Bios - the DEL key is used for going into the Configuration > Setup - BUT inside the Setup I cannot change the values for the amount of > memory, which I suppose is detected in the POST-routine ... I don't know > if it's a good idea to test all possible jumper settings in the nearer > area of the memory slots ;-) > > FWIW, you could try searching around on motherboards.org I'm not sure how far back they have information though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/3ab46cb1/attachment.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 02:34:35 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <2276.486T1150T8505191optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <20010327133411.EBMK29116.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: 27 Mar 2001 14:10:23 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: AAUI > To: "Tony Duell" > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Tony Duell skrev: > > >OK, these drives are non-stnadard enough that you can't plug them > >straight into a PC's floppy controller. But that's not really what I was > >talking about. Thing is, I can take a floppy disk from one of the HP > >units, put it in a PC drive, and read/write to it using the right > >software. There is no way a PC can read an original Apple Mac disk. > > Yoiu're so PC-centric. Since there really weren't any PCs with 3,5" floppy > drives, that was a moot point. The Amiga used a format of its own as well, > thoiugh not as involved as the Mac's, and I'm glad it did, since an extra > hundred kays of space, not to mention a nice file system, was a nice bonus > back in the day. > > >And I am quite sure that what most users would care about is being able > >to transfer files (even just text) between their machine and their > >cow-orker's machine. Which might be in another town, or another country, > >so you can't set them up next to each other with a null-modem cable. > > Couldn't the original Macs read PC disks using Apple file exchange or similar > programs? Are you talking about these 400K and 800K format on these original Macs? You can't unless one designs a card and special drive with straight through raw analog connection that reads at analog level and extract the bits by a/d and d/a conversions, translate it to PC side. Physical tracks and pitch is same for all SD, DD and HD 3.5" disks. The software side to translate the data isn't the problem, it's the physical chipsets on PC for the floppy drives is the problem. It's the strange GCR formatting and 4 speed rpms, I did feel the heads seeks change speeds 4 times through a whole init which means the rpm changes in those original Macs. Needs a later Mac like SE FDHD, SE/30 and any later Mac II upgraded to superdrive support, any LC series, all quadra, centris, performas etc to format these 400K/800K disks to get old Macs going once again. Reason I said having newer Macs to do this jump start process is a given because of it's capablities like networking, init the external HD drives, install old OSes, create 400K/800K disks to transfer files or build up disk sets for non-SCSI capble orignal Macs (Mac, Mac 512 etc) and other things. Snip > >I still think the correct solution to that is to use a bigger case. I > >have never understood this love of making things small, especially not > >when there are good technical reasons not to do so. > > If you live in a 17 m? flat like I do, you'll come to appreciate such things. > =) Correct, my whole place where I can keep my stuff is my 20'ish by 18' bedroom. Tower cases and compact desktop to stack upon is big plus. Some other items went into closest, under that bed and around it. Oh some more around and in that tv stand plus some clutter besides me and stuff stuffed into my crappy chipboard hutch. Snip > Or they could have employed something like the micro DB-50, as seen on more > modern systems. To add insult to injury, there were other SCSI manufacturers > who used DB25 pinouts of their own. And what about the dangerous serial ports > of the non-ADB models? Hmmm... Again, there's the dangerous telephone wires, plug that in place of properly wired apple wire for keyboard. POW! Goes the keyboard microcontroller. That's another fatal design thanks to apple for using telephone jacks instead of some kind of connectors. > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Give your child mental blocks for Christmas. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 08:17:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI Message-ID: <01Mar27.092353est.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Jeff Hellige skrev: >Well, transceivers do have the tendency to fall off their mounting point... =) >As for the size of AUI transceivers, they have been absolutely gargantuan once >upon a time. We've got a BULL 10B2 transceiver connected to a pocket hub at >the usergroup, and the transceiver actually dwarfs the hub! >Then again, I have a stack of pocket transceivers which are actually smaller >than my AAUI ones. >The cable is a nice addition, though. I actually came up with an HP transceiver that proves my own point invalid. It's about the size of a zippo cigarette lighter, but a little thicker. It's a model# 28685B Ethertwist transceiver and it has dip switches to enable SQE, Link and Loopback test as well as use of a long cable. It also has 6 status LEDS near the 10base-T connector. I do have a small 5-port hub that isn't much larger than some of the AAUI transceivers I have though. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 08:22:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI Message-ID: <01Mar27.092923est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Hmmm... Again, there's the dangerous telephone wires, plug that in >place of properly wired apple wire for keyboard. POW! Goes the >keyboard microcontroller. That's another fatal design thanks to >apple for using telephone jacks instead of some kind of connectors. They weren't the only manufacturer to use that type of connector for the keyboard though. I'm not saying it was a good design, but it was a connector that was small and readily available. The Atari ST, Amiga 1000, Coleco Adam, and I believe the IBM 5155, as well as plenty of serial terminals, used the same type of connector for the keyboard. My main complaint about that connector is that it is so frail. Not everyone enjoys cutting off the broken connector and wiring a new one back on! Jeff From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Mar 27 08:26:59 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010327062659.009a9c00@192.168.42.129> Well, that last "ghetto blaster" spam was interesting in the fact that the sender made no attempt at all to hide their identity, or to relay through open third-party servers. Because of this, I believe it may just have been sheer ignorance on the part of bitways that turned them to the Dark Side of the 'Net. I've fired off a LART to mediascape.de, which appears to be the upstream provider for the company that did the deed. I will know shortly if this is true. Maybe we could all chip in and send them a ten-year old boom-box? ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Mar 27 09:04:30 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Tek 4114 monitors ( Kansas City) Message-ID: > I was wandering through the local computer surplus and came across 3 very > large Tektronix monitor/terminals that are labeled 4114. > I did several web searches but most of the information is that they > existed not much about their capabilities. Any additional info about them > would be appreciated. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Mar 27 09:12:58 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: Message-ID: Before MacOS 9.x password protection there was a nasty access control application called At Ease. It went REALLY low level to keep you from screwing around with things, if a disk is protected with at ease, the only way to get at it is booting from another disk and updating the hard disk drivers. Foolproof is a similar, thrid party application, and there is also a program (Disklock perhaps?) which locks the drive WAY down, you can't even mount it if you boot from another disk. If the disk is protected with Foolproof or, more likely, At Ease, you'll need to reinstall the OS if you don't have the password. If it is protected with an application like Disklock (i.e. it doesn't show up on the desktop when booting from another disk) your only recourse is to completely reformat and reinstall the OS. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > In a message dated 3/26/01 3:07:26 PM Central Standard Time, azog@azog.org > writes: > > << I think I recall seeing somewhere that you can bypass extensions on bootup > by pressing a shift key, but that didn't work, so I assume that this isn't > an extension, but something intergral into the OS itself... >> > > no password schemes are in the os itself. try holding down the left shift key > again as soon as you see the happy mac. if its system 7 or higher, it will > say extensions disabled. if that don't work, you'll need to find a system > floppy to boot from so you can mount the hard drive and take a look around. > From enrico.badella at softstar.it Tue Mar 27 09:24:57 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd References: <3.0.5.32.20010327062659.009a9c00@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3AC0B0C9.8E05639E@softstar.it> Bruce Lane wrote: > [snip] > I've fired off a LART to mediascape.de, which appears to be the upstream > provider for the company that did the deed. I will know shortly if this is > true. > > Maybe we could all chip in and send them a ten-year old boom-box? ;-) Can you tell a non native english speaker what a "ten-year old boom-box" is? Maybe an old box filled with AMD 2901 and 2910? In that case I want one too. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 27 09:23:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <01Mar27.092353est.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 27, 1 09:17:02 am" Message-ID: <200103271523.HAA09744@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I actually came up with an HP transceiver that proves my own point > invalid. It's about the size of a zippo cigarette lighter, but a little > thicker. It's a model# 28685B Ethertwist transceiver and it has dip > switches to enable SQE, Link and Loopback test as well as use of a long > cable. It also has 6 status LEDS near the 10base-T connector. I do have a > small 5-port hub that isn't much larger than some of the AAUI transceivers I > have though. I have a little Allied Telesyn transceiver I'm using on the Solbourne. Nice gadget, fits in the palm of my thin piano-playing mitts. There's a DIP on the side for SQE-Enable and four status lights. Works very well. That reminds me, since I'm an AUI novice. I picked up a DB15 straight through cable at Fry's (it was sold as a joystick extension but it works fine on the Apple monitors too). I also have an Allied Telesyn hub that accepts eight 10BT connectors, Thinnet, and one AUI. If I plug the Solbourne right into the AUI port on the hub, will I need the transceiver anymore? It would be nice to free it up for a machine that honestly couldn't utilise anything else. The cable does work as an AUI extension (I can plug the cable into the Sol and into the transceiver, and then Ethernet into that, and it works fine in that capacity), so that much seems promising. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin ------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 27 09:33:53 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <01Mar27.092923est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 27, 1 09:22:37 am" Message-ID: <200103271533.HAA10044@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > They weren't the only manufacturer to use that type of connector for the > keyboard though. I'm not saying it was a good design, but it was a > connector that was small and readily available. The Atari ST, Amiga 1000, > Coleco Adam, and I believe the IBM 5155, as well as plenty of serial > terminals, used the same type of connector for the keyboard. Old Sun mice use it too. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Coffee. Delight. Border. May I see your passport please? -- Firesign Theater From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Mar 27 10:07:36 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: DELQA/DEQNA kit needed Message-ID: <3AC0BAC8.107D90BF@arrl.net> Trying to add ethernet to my 11/83 (BA23). Anyone have this cab kit lying about? This would be the mounting plate with cable-to-card. Have enough DEC stuff here, might be able to work a trade. thanks ............. nick oliviero From azog at azog.org Tue Mar 27 10:32:12 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <200103270117.RAA04006@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I really have no idea what's running - I picked it out of a junk pile. The password box pops up, as a dialogue that says "Enter password for Macinto.", and a text entry box. I assume that the "Macinto" is a truncation of "Macintosh". The time time I try, it says "Enter password for Appli(cations)". After the third incorrect password, the machine does a shutdown, and I can press the Restart button on the screen. > > > > This is what it is doing, it is showing the icons on the bottom of the > > screen during boot, even while I hold the shift key down. > > I wonder -- do you have At Ease running? What does the password window > requestor look like? > From azog at azog.org Tue Mar 27 10:35:28 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, this kinda makes sense now. After someone (sorry, I forget) posted about HVFExplorer, I found it on the web somewhere. One other thing I downloaded was a System 7.0 bootdisk, and I was able to create this disk using HVFExplorer, and boot the SE/30 with it. It didn't do much, but I cannot mount the hard drive with it - sounds like what you describe below. I can't even SEE the hard drive. The HD tools program sees "something" on the SCSI chain, but that's about it... I downloaded some of the disks from the Apple ftp site, but these are .smi.bin files. I was able to turn them into .smi files (using StuffIt for Windows), but am stuck here. HFVExplorer doesn't seem to deal with .smi files... > > > Before MacOS 9.x password protection there was a nasty access control > application called At Ease. It went REALLY low level to keep you from > screwing around with things, if a disk is protected with at ease, the only > way to get at it is booting from another disk and updating the hard disk > drivers. Foolproof is a similar, thrid party application, and > there is also > a program (Disklock perhaps?) which locks the drive WAY down, you > can't even > mount it if you boot from another disk. If the disk is protected with > Foolproof or, more likely, At Ease, you'll need to reinstall the OS if you > don't have the password. If it is protected with an application like > Disklock (i.e. it doesn't show up on the desktop when booting from another > disk) your only recourse is to completely reformat and reinstall the OS. From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Mar 27 10:41:20 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AT&T 3B1/7300 stuff available in PA. Message-ID: <200103271641.IAA02998@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Saw this on Usenet. Figured someone might be interested. Contact original author directly. Eric >From: dhorvath@cobs.com >Subject: Re: Getting Rid of equipment >Newsgroups: comp.sys.3b1 > >I have several 3b1's and 7300's, memory boards, power supplies, hard drives, >unused spare monitor, software, etc., etc., etc. I've been trying to sell them >or otherwise find a good home for them. But without luck. > >Anyone interested? > >- David > >-- >David B. Horvath, CCP dhorvath@cobs.com >Consultant, International Lecturer, Adjunct Professor >Author of "UNIX for the Mainframer" and other books. > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Mar 27 10:43:27 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: OT: Atari 2600 cartridge archiver Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879766@MAIL10> Hello, all: Does anyone have a link to a good 2600 cartridge archiver project? I spent quite a bit of time last night looking for one, but I keep coming up empty. None of the 2600 emulation pages I hit really speak about making your own ROM images. Thanks. Rich From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 27 11:03:59 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: MGA card... In-Reply-To: <01Mar27.092353est.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: I'm in dire need of a couple of monochrome graphics adaptors for a project I'm working on. Does anyone here have a few they'd like to part with? Thanks for your time. Gene Buckle geneb@deltasoft.com http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 27 09:57:58 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: <20010327081910.GWMN3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, RebelTerry wrote: > Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard > (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. Didn't the original PC ship with the 64K motherboard, and then later the larger one? It's too early in the morning and I can't think right now. > So, if anyone knows where I could beg, borrow, or steal a DOS 1.0... They are pretty hard to come by :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Mar 27 11:51:12 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: OT: Atari 2600 cartridge archiver In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879766@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Mar 27, 01 11:43:27 am Message-ID: <200103271751.MAA05945@wordstock.com> > > Does anyone have a link to a good 2600 cartridge archiver project? I > spent quite a bit of time last night looking for one, but I keep coming up > empty. None of the 2600 emulation pages I hit really speak about making your > own ROM images. > Check out http://www.retrocomputing.org Bryan From greg at ciswired.com Tue Mar 27 12:20:10 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: DELQA/DEQNA kit needed In-Reply-To: <3AC0BAC8.107D90BF@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, no wrote: > Trying to add ethernet to my 11/83 (BA23). Anyone > have this cab kit lying about? This would be the mounting > plate with cable-to-card. > > Have enough DEC stuff here, might be able to work a trade. > > thanks ............. nick oliviero Nick, I'm a little confused. Do you just need the bulkhead connector plus its cable? If so, and if you know if it's the same as the DEUNA unit, I can spare one off of one of the 11/44s. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Mar 27 12:27:05 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions Message-ID: <20010327182705.75782.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> The March winds have been unsurpassed at depositing Macintosh parts at my feet. Last week, at my new job, a new co-worker gave me a pair of AAUI 10BaseT transceivers; the show at Dayton disgorged a Quadra 660AV; and the university surplus turned out to be a gold mine. For $5 each, I picked up a 15" Mac monitor, two LC IIIs, two IIsis, an external 170Mb disk, and an Apple external 80Mb disk. I got for free from the cable bin, some LocalTalk cables, three LocalTalk dongles, one PhoneNet dongle (w/terminator) and three data- center-grade AUI cables, including a DEC-branded one (perfect for my VAX8200) Most of these accessories I've been looking for with some intensity of late. In amongst the bits were Ethernet cards all around. I picked up the IIsis, not for themselves, but because ISTR that the IIsi PDS slot is compatible with the PDS slot on the SE/30. If so, then I can finally stick that SE/30 on my network without using up my one and only SCSI<->Ethernet dongle. A surprise in the lot was inside one of the LC IIIs - an Apple IIe card. It stood out because of the DB44? connector on the back, rather than the expected RJ-45. I have heard of the Apple IIe compatibility card, but where can I find a cable for this connector, which I presume is for attaching an external drive to? I haven't gotten home yet, so I have no idea if there is software on the Mac's drive to control it, but I hope there is. Finally, now that I have an abundance of Ethernet-capable Macs, I want to turn to a long-standing project - turning a Mac into an Ethernet<->LocalTalk print server. I don't care if I have to sacrifice one of my larger Macs and run a variety of UNIX, but what I want is to be able to print from other machines, UNIX, Windoze, Amiga, etc., over whatever protocol I can manage to universally support, and print to this HP Deskwriter 660 that is sitting here, lonely. Additionally, I could drive an HP LaserJet 4/ML over the LocalTalk port from the same print server. Are there any packages for the Mac that will let me share the printer with non-Apple-based machines? Is there something like CAP (Columbua AppleTalk Protocol?) for Windoze? (I've used it with Linux) I am not a Mac newbie, but my experience with Mac printers is limited to "plug it in, load a driver and go". I've never had to mess with them much, because they are, in my experience, fairly well behaved. I will go RTFM once I know where the FM is (and any software to go with it). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From curt at atari-history.com Tue Mar 27 15:29:27 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) References: Message-ID: <3AC10636.D5EC9993@atari-history.com> Hi, I installed a boat load of original IBM PC's when they first came out (these had Cassette connectors on the back next to the keyboard connectors) they were all 64K. Curt Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, RebelTerry wrote: > > > Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard > > (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. > > Didn't the original PC ship with the 64K motherboard, and then later the > larger one? It's too early in the morning and I can't think right now. > > > So, if anyone knows where I could beg, borrow, or steal a DOS 1.0... > > They are pretty hard to come by :( > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 27 12:39:04 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Cameron Kaiser "Re: AAUI" (Mar 27, 7:23) References: <200103271523.HAA09744@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <10103271939.ZM5472@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 27, 7:23, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > I have a little Allied Telesyn transceiver I'm using on the Solbourne. > Nice gadget, fits in the palm of my thin piano-playing mitts. There's a DIP > on the side for SQE-Enable and four status lights. Works very well. I have several AT 10bse2 and 10baseT transceivers like that, and a few Eagle ones and a D-link one too. Also a little DEC one that's about twice that size (lengthways). Lots of companies made very small "microtransceivers", some of them with several LEDs (my Eagle 10baseT ones have 6). They're quite handy for checking links through patch panels and structured wiring - wire a PP3 (MN1604/6LR6 9V) battery to pins 6 (-ve) and 13 (=ve) and you can test for a link light and even see when there's traffic. The poor man's Cat5 cable tester. > That reminds me, since I'm an AUI novice. I picked up a DB15 straight > through cable at Fry's (it was sold as a joystick extension but it works > fine on the Apple monitors too). I also have an Allied Telesyn hub that > accepts eight 10BT connectors, Thinnet, and one AUI. If I plug the Solbourne > right into the AUI port on the hub, will I need the transceiver anymore? That won't work, I expect. The Solbourne connector is supposed to plug into a transceiver, and so probably is the one on the hub. I bet they're both sockets? If so, I suggest you don't try it, as those connectors provide power to the transceiver, apart from needing a crossover (and the collision detect would go haywire too). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Mar 27 12:41:26 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC memory Message-ID: <76.8e8cdf0.27f238d6@aol.com> > > Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard > > (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. > Actually I think the first 5 slot IBM motherboard had 16K soldered on the MB and three rows of sockets for an additional 48K. this made it possible to stuff it with a full 64K of Ram. The second version had 64K chips soldered and sockets to bring it up to 256K. Paxton Paxton From RebelTerry at home.net Tue Mar 27 12:55:07 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:27 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: References: <20010327081910.GWMN3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: <20010327185403.WHOD14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> > > Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard > > (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. > > Didn't the original PC ship with the 64K motherboard, and then later the > larger one? It's too early in the morning and I can't think right now. No, the originals shipped with 48k, but you could add 16k to it to upgrade it to 64k (which I did). 16k cost a bit more back then! Very soon they started shipping all of them with 64k mb. > > So, if anyone knows where I could beg, borrow, or steal a DOS 1.0... > > They are pretty hard to come by :( That's what I'm afraid of... Thanks. RT From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Mar 27 12:54:34 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: [Fwd: NeXT's available] Message-ID: Curt, I'm in for a turbo station if possible. >Just a thought, but does anyone on the list have the OS for these >beasties? I just checked and NetBSD isn't quite ready for prime time on >them yet, and neither is Linux unfortunately... >- -Linc Fessenden It may be already on some or all of the stations' hard drives, Curt will have to tell us when he gets them set up. I have a CD of NextStep 3.3 Prerelease 1 (seems functionally identical to NS 3.3, YMMV but it's what I'm using on my Cube) and one of NS 3.3 Developer. I also have patch 2 on CD (for User/Dev) (patch 1 is included in patch 2) and User patch 3 as a compressed installer file. I also have an image of a floppy which can be used to kick-start a CD boot, for machines that don't do that automatically (non-turbo stations?). I can make and ship copies of the boot floppy, though my supply of the nice ED floppies is limited. I have a CD burner, but a) have not tried duplicating the CD's b) Don't much want to hear what Apple would think legally about my doing so. Since Apple gave away copies of this software in 1999, I'd expect little difficulty from them if I "restored and upgraded" hard drives to the current NS3.3 User/Dev + patches configuration that the machines want to run. (Calling all Apple lawyers, please let me know if you disagree!) The included hard drives, if they are the base 406Meg configuration, are very tight with everything loaded. If you plan to actively use the system, or to install much of the wonderful freeware on ftp.peak.org (I especially recommend the Lighthouse Apps), you will probably want a bigger drive. What I suggest is: 1) You get the station, try it out, make sure it runs and you like it. 2) You buy and ship me a hard drive (maybe 1-2 Gig? or the original 406 Meg, or an external) that fits in the machine, plus a check for the cost of shipping it back to you. 3) I initialize and build NS3.3 (Pr1) User, NS3.3 Dev, and patches 2 and 3 on your hard drive by plugging it into my Cube temporarily and building from CD's (so you get a clean install) and copy Patch 3 over from my OD and run on your hard drive (so it's tested and patched to patch 3). 4) I repack your hard drive and ship it back to you, ready to boot. 5) You replace the drive in your station with the new one, or if it's external just plug it in and boot from it. If 25 hard drives arrive in the mail the same day, I'll build them on a "time available" basis, so please don't be in too much of a hurry. Notes: 1) Anyone with a full release version of NS 3.3 might be better as a source. 2) Rob Blessin, at http://206.67.57.106, does a similar deal for a living (look on the Black Hardware page and scroll down to Storage) can do it faster, and already has the (2.1 Gig Seagate Barracuda) hard drive ready to go. He's also got OpenStep 4.2, which I don't. Comments or suggestions welcome. I'm in digest mode, so response to list mail will take until I have digested it ;-). - Mark From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Mar 27 13:16:28 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC memory References: <76.8e8cdf0.27f238d6@aol.com> Message-ID: That sounds about right. I have a second-generation IBM PC, and it can go up to 256k. I remember being excited that I had the second one, cause the first had some horrible memory limit and I didn't have the $$$ to shell out for an AST SixPack or the like. Of which I have several now, of course :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: Original IBM PC memory > > > > Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard > > > (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. > > > > Actually I think the first 5 slot IBM motherboard had 16K soldered on the MB > and three rows of sockets for an additional 48K. this made it possible to > stuff it with a full 64K of Ram. The second version had 64K chips soldered > and sockets to bring it up to 256K. > > Paxton > > Paxton > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Mar 27 13:26:37 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions References: <20010327182705.75782.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Mac haul and print server questions > center-grade AUI cables, including a DEC-branded one (perfect for my VAX8200) Darn, all I could fit in my basement are the system boards of an 8600. Now I just need a case... > surprise in the lot was inside one of the LC IIIs - an Apple IIe card. It > stood out because of the DB44? connector on the back, rather than the expected > RJ-45. I have heard of the Apple IIe compatibility card, but where can I find > a cable for this connector, which I presume is for attaching an external drive > to? Actually I think it's one of those multipurpose breakout cables like the DOS cards had. It provided Apple II Joysticks, disk drive, and I think serial connections. > the same print server. Are there any packages for the Mac that will let me > share the printer with non-Apple-based machines? Is there something like > CAP (Columbua AppleTalk Protocol?) for Windoze? (I've used it with Linux) There was an old LPR daemon for MacOS, check the hyperarchive, that's where I found it a few years ago. The LaserJet 4ML will definatly work as it's postscript if I'm not mistaken. Just about anything can print to it. The big Windows->Mac network app used to be called COPStalk, I think it became PC<->MacLan. It lets you mount appleshare volumes and print to mac shared printers. The inverse used to be called DAVE, I forgot what the new name is.. Connectix makes an appy called DoubleTalk, which is very similar to DAVE, lets you mount windows shares and share your hard drive and printer on a windows SMB-based network. From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Tue Mar 27 13:52:37 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC memory In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c0b6f7$7a0eedf0$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> I shouldn't be responding to this (I've transferred my subscription to my home computer) but couldn't resist. I think the base(A) was 64K and the max(B) was 640K, apparently because some decision maker didn't understand the value of powers of 2. Sorry but supporting materials are not at hand, but I think I can back this up. (A: Motherboard, B: A+Bus cards) John A. From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Mar 27 13:47:27 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: TU56 DECtape on Q-bus machine possible? In-Reply-To: <3AC0BAC8.107D90BF@arrl.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010327144125.037db128@mail.njd.concentric.com> I apologize in advance for the quite possibly stupid question, but... Is there any way to run a TU56 DECtape drive on a Q-bus system like a PDP-11/73? -- Tony From curt at atari-history.com Tue Mar 27 16:57:14 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: NeXT's available UPDATE References: Message-ID: <3AC11AC9.7F0F09F8@atari-history.com> Hi Guys, Arrangements are set for me to drive down Sunday to pick up the equipment, I will start working on the list of who has asked for what and post it here in the mailinglist, the stuff is getting spoken for quickly, up to about 15 people have asked for 1 workstation each, a few asked for 2. I will post where we are at sometime late tonight. Curt Mark Tapley wrote: > Curt, I'm in for a turbo station if possible. > > >Just a thought, but does anyone on the list have the OS for these > >beasties? I just checked and NetBSD isn't quite ready for prime time on > >them yet, and neither is Linux unfortunately... > >- -Linc Fessenden > > It may be already on some or all of the stations' hard drives, Curt > will have to tell us when he gets them set up. > I have a CD of NextStep 3.3 Prerelease 1 (seems functionally > identical to NS 3.3, YMMV but it's what I'm using on my Cube) and one of NS > 3.3 Developer. I also have patch 2 on CD (for User/Dev) (patch 1 is > included in patch 2) and User patch 3 as a compressed installer file. I > also have an image of a floppy which can be used to kick-start a CD boot, > for machines that don't do that automatically (non-turbo stations?). > I can make and ship copies of the boot floppy, though my supply of > the nice ED floppies is limited. > I have a CD burner, but a) have not tried duplicating the CD's b) > Don't much want to hear what Apple would think legally about my doing so. > Since Apple gave away copies of this software in 1999, I'd expect > little difficulty from them if I "restored and upgraded" hard drives to the > current NS3.3 User/Dev + patches configuration that the machines want to > run. (Calling all Apple lawyers, please let me know if you disagree!) > The included hard drives, if they are the base 406Meg > configuration, are very tight with everything loaded. If you plan to > actively use the system, or to install much of the wonderful freeware on > ftp.peak.org (I especially recommend the Lighthouse Apps), you will > probably want a bigger drive. > > What I suggest is: > 1) You get the station, try it out, make sure it runs and you like it. > 2) You buy and ship me a hard drive (maybe 1-2 Gig? or the original 406 Meg, > or an external) that fits in the machine, > plus a check for the cost of shipping it back to you. > 3) I initialize and build NS3.3 (Pr1) User, NS3.3 Dev, and patches 2 and 3 > on your hard drive by plugging it into my Cube temporarily and > building > from CD's (so you get a clean install) and copy Patch 3 over from > my OD and run on your hard drive (so it's tested and patched to > patch 3). > 4) I repack your hard drive and ship it back to you, ready to boot. > 5) You replace the drive in your station with the new one, or if it's external > just plug it in and boot from it. > > If 25 hard drives arrive in the mail the same day, I'll build them > on a "time available" basis, so please don't be in too much of a hurry. > > Notes: > 1) Anyone with a full release version of NS 3.3 might be better as a source. > 2) Rob Blessin, at http://206.67.57.106, does a similar deal for a living > (look on the Black Hardware page and scroll down to Storage) can do it > faster, and already has the (2.1 Gig Seagate Barracuda) hard drive ready to > go. He's also got OpenStep 4.2, which I don't. > > Comments or suggestions welcome. I'm in digest mode, so response to > list mail will take until I have digested it ;-). > - Mark From RebelTerry at home.net Tue Mar 27 14:02:11 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: <20010327185403.WHOD14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> References: Message-ID: <20010327200107.ZUQK14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> I just looked up my original receipt for my IBM PC, from Computerland, dated April 2, 1982: IBM System Unit (48k): $2235.00 16kb Expansion: $90 Graphics board: $300 DOS: $40 RF Modulator: $0 Book: $15 Sub Total: $2680 Tax: $176.88 TOTAL: $2856.88 (such a bargain) After trying the RF modulator, I bought the Amdek RGB monitor ($769). I later added the solder-in upgrade from Amdek to bump it from 8 to a whopping 16 colors (in text mode only, of course...). RT From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Tue Mar 27 14:10:21 2001 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Kenneth L. Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: MGA card... In-Reply-To: References: <01Mar27.092353est.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010327150903.00aed6c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> At 09:03 AM 03/27/2001 -0800, you wrote: >I'm in dire need of a couple of monochrome graphics adaptors for a project >I'm working on. Does anyone here have a few they'd like to part with? > >Thanks for your time. > >Gene Buckle >geneb@deltasoft.com >http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. Gene: I may still have a few in my parts drawer. I'll check tonight and let you know. If I still have them, they're yours gratis. KLM Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Road Rochester, NY 14623 Phone:(716)-275-8247 Fax: (716)-275-5960 From RebelTerry at home.net Tue Mar 27 14:17:16 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC memory In-Reply-To: <001f01c0b6f7$7a0eedf0$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> References: Message-ID: <20010327201611.NAE14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> JIK someone reads this thread but not the other: My original receipt (4/2/82) shows I purchased a 48k base unit and paid $90 for the 16kb upgrade kit. RT > I think the base(A) was 64K and the max(B) was 640K, > apparently because some decision maker didn't understand > the value of powers of 2. Sorry but supporting materials > are not at hand, but I think I can back this up. > > (A: Motherboard, B: A+Bus cards) > > John A. > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 14:25:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions Message-ID: <01Mar27.153213est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >> RJ-45. I have heard of the Apple IIe compatibility card, but where can I >find >> a cable for this connector, which I presume is for attaching an external >drive >> to? > >Actually I think it's one of those multipurpose breakout cables like the DOS >cards had. It provided Apple II Joysticks, disk drive, and I think serial >connections. The DOS cards for the Mac's are actual coprocessor cards. If the IIe compatibility card is anything like the similar cards sold for the PC, it is basically a IIe on a single board. I've never actually had one of the Mac IIe compatibility cards though. I do remember Tandy, among others, listing the DOS IIe emulation cards in their catalogs into the late 80's. Jeff From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Mar 27 14:29:33 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: TU56 DECtape on Q-bus machine possible? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010327152859.037f0d78@mail.njd.concentric.com> I apologize in advance for the quite possibly stupid question, but... Is there any way to run a TU56 DECtape drive on a Q-bus system like a PDP-11/73? -- Tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 12:00:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Schoedel" at Mar 26, 1 08:43:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1496 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/807c0415/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 12:02:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Schoedel" at Mar 26, 1 09:49:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/a28d75cb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 14:18:00 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <2276.486T1150T8505191optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 27, 1 02:10:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/66ebe580/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 14:19:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: <672.486T2950T8666719optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 27, 1 02:26:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 430 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/fd1a3660/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 14:24:22 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <01Mar27.092923est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 27, 1 09:22:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1778 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/442a8c04/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 14:29:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <200103271523.HAA09744@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Mar 27, 1 07:23:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 930 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/08dd1ff0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 14:39:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 27, 1 07:57:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1472 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/76c1d253/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 27 13:40:58 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <01Mar27.092923est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > They weren't the only manufacturer to use that type of connector > for the keyboard though. I'm not saying it was a good design, but it > was a connector that was small and readily available. The Atari ST, > Amiga 1000, Coleco Adam, and I believe the IBM 5155, as well as plenty > of serial terminals, used the same type of connector for the keyboard. > My main complaint about that connector is that it is so frail. Not > everyone enjoys cutting off the broken connector and wiring a new one > back on! It's a very simple task. Go out to your local electronics, office, or even grocery store and buy a crimper that comes with a few of the connectors. Cut the old connector off, strip the cable with the crimper tool, insert the new connector on and crimp. Takes less than 10 seconds :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 27 13:41:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010327062659.009a9c00@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Bruce Lane wrote: > Well, that last "ghetto blaster" spam was interesting in the fact that the > sender made no attempt at all to hide their identity, or to relay through > open third-party servers. Because of this, I believe it may just have been > sheer ignorance on the part of bitways that turned them to the Dark Side of > the 'Net. > > I've fired off a LART to mediascape.de, which appears to be the upstream > provider for the company that did the deed. I will know shortly if this is > true. You're such a good little hall monitor! ;) > Maybe we could all chip in and send them a ten-year old > boom-box? ;-) Or maybe we can just ignore them and live more happily? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 27 15:02:17 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: MGA card... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010327150903.00aed6c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Message-ID: > > Gene: > > I may still have a few in my parts drawer. I'll check tonight and let you know. > > If I still have them, they're yours gratis. > Thanks Kenneth, it's appriciated! Do you know if there are any speed issues with these cards? If so, it'll dictate what I can stuff them into. :) g. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Mar 27 15:18:06 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Mar 27, 2001 11:41:52 AM Message-ID: <200103272118.OAA17470@calico.litterbox.com> > > Maybe we could all chip in and send them a ten-year old > > boom-box? ;-) Someone was asking what a boom-box is. It's a portable stereo, usually with casette and radio, although some later ones had cd and some really large ones came with a small fold-out turntable. In the early 1980s it was common to see a person with one of these things on his shoulder, music cranked up loud. This fad died back swiftly with the advent of the sony walkman. If you've ever watched Star Trek IV, the Voyage Home, the scene on the bus where the punk rocker is given the Vulcan neck pinch for blasting his music too loud clearly shows the punk rocker (also the author of the music, as it turns out) using a Boom Box. They were such an annoyance that the scene in the movie was universally greeted with cheers in the theater. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From greg at ciswired.com Tue Mar 27 15:27:48 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: NeXT's available UPDATE In-Reply-To: <3AC11AC9.7F0F09F8@atari-history.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > Hi Guys, > > Arrangements are set for me to drive down Sunday to pick up the equipment, I > will start working on the list of who has asked for what and post it here in the > mailinglist, the stuff is getting spoken for quickly, up to about 15 people have > asked for 1 workstation each, a few asked for 2. I will post where we are at > sometime late tonight. > > > Curt Hi Curt, Is it too late for me to put in a request for a workstation? Thanks, greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 15:29:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Yes, the 5155 does have an RJ11-like keyboard connector. It plugs into a >socket on the front of the case which is wired to a 5 pin DIN plug, which >is then plugged into the normal keyboard connector on the (XT) motherboard. I would've thought they'd have just extended the XT connector to the front of the machine using a similar type cable instead of making sure that the only keyboard usable on the 5155 is that specific one, at least without a bit of work. >One thing that many manufacturers did that Apple didn't was make the >cable difficult to detach from the keyboard. By having it fixed at one >end, you couldn't replace it (easily) with a telephone cable. I'm glad that all of the keyboards with that connector that I have all are detachable. Makes replacement that much easier if there's a problem. All of the ones I mentioned previously are detachable at the keyboard, including my DECmate II, which I forgot used the same type. It takes a bit more work to get the cable off though since it runs through a little channel on the bottom of the keyboard after it is connected. >Yes, if the locking clip catches on another cable (cables seem to tangle >in the most amazing ways), it breaks off :-(. Horrible little connector. Especially when you pack them into a box for movement. Wrapping them around the keyboard lessens this somewhat but I dislike doing that since it stretches the cable out of shape. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 11:13:17 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Billy D'Augustine" > To: > Subject: RE: Mac SE/30 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:35:28 -0500 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Ok, this kinda makes sense now. After someone (sorry, I forget) posted about > HVFExplorer, I found it on the web somewhere. One other thing I downloaded > was a System 7.0 bootdisk, and I was able to create this disk using > HVFExplorer, and boot the SE/30 with it. It didn't do much, but I cannot > mount the hard drive with it - sounds like what you describe below. I can't > even SEE the hard drive. The HD tools program sees "something" on the SCSI > chain, but that's about it... > > I downloaded some of the disks from the Apple ftp site, but these are > .smi.bin files. I was able to turn them into .smi files (using StuffIt for > Windows), but am stuck here. HFVExplorer doesn't seem to deal with .smi > files... .smi is supposed to go with bunch of .part files. Put them on mac emulator like basilisk II or on paste them on mac formatted external hd attached to pc via HVF explorer (raw data fork, please), yank it, reattach the hd to mac, and double click on one of them. It will self assemble and plop itself in ramdrive, copy it to a new folder. > > Before MacOS 9.x password protection there was a nasty access control > > application called At Ease. It went REALLY low level to keep you from > > screwing around with things, if a disk is protected with at ease, the only > > way to get at it is booting from another disk and updating the hard disk > > drivers. Foolproof is a similar, thrid party application, and > > there is also > > a program (Disklock perhaps?) which locks the drive WAY down, you > > can't even > > mount it if you boot from another disk. If the disk is protected with > > Foolproof or, more likely, At Ease, you'll need to reinstall the OS if you > > don't have the password. If it is protected with an application like > > Disklock (i.e. it doesn't show up on the desktop when booting from another > > disk) your only recourse is to completely reformat and reinstall the OS. All correct. Re-init the hd, if you have a non-apple hd, hack the HD SC 7.5.3 w/ regedit, and have a go at it. Easy as pie, only one hex byte to fix. All of this I found them on google.com if I have problem trying to locate files on apple.com's. Cheers, Wizard From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 08:13:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Flea Market finds...: VAX 5000/200 point me to a faq please... In-Reply-To: <20010326143023Z434770-10128+409@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <2895.486T800T9134245optimus@canit.se> Mark Green skrev: >> >By standard I meant something that had been used elsewhere. If >> >you have never seen this connector before, there is a good chance >> >that you wouldn't guess its a video connector. Standard connectors >> >I associate with video are VGA, 13W3 and BNC, this looks like none >> >of them. >> >> Would that be 9-pin or 15-pin VGA? >> Besides, the 3W3 looks rather similar to the 13W3. And what about D23, D15, >> DIN-13, DIN-5, D9, in a lot of odd configurations. >What's the point of your comment? The Decstation 5000/200 doesn't >have these connectors so it doesn't make any difference. The >standard cable provided by DEC for these machines basically took >their 3 pin connector to 3 BNC connectors. This can be connected >to a monitor that has BNC connectors and supports the appropriate >frequencies. Since the video connectors on the 5000 series >workstations were somewhat unusual they can easily be overlooked >by someone who isn't familiar with them. My point is that it's rather silly to talk about "standard" video connectors, especially in a forum like this. The same could be said of a 13W3 or a D15HD. >> >> Assuming it supports sync on green and the correct frequencies. >> >> >If I remember correctly, the 5000 line had relatively standard >> >video frequencies, it was the monitors that were fixed frquency >> >and couldn't be switched between different models. I suspect >> >it is either 1024x768 or 1280x1024, it will depend upon the >> >graphics option that's installed. >> >> Or 1024_864. =) >I don't recall that particular resolution. Each of the graphics >adaptors (there was about a dozen of them) had its own resolution >and there was no easy way of changing it. The graphics displays >were not near as flexible as the SGIs of the same time period. I've got a table of resolutions for the DEC graphics adapters here... HX graphics options: OPTIONS RESOLUTION JUMPER CLOCK PMAGB-BA/BB 1280X1024 72Hz off 130. mhz 1280X1024 66Hz on 119. mhz PMAGB-BC/BD 1280X1024 72Hz off 130. mhz 1024x864 60Hz on 74. mhz PMAGB-BE/BF 1280X1024 72Hz off 130. mhz 1024x768 72Hz on 130. mhz Don't ask me how to tell one from the other... =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. But a graphical client/server model that slices the interface down some arbitrary middle is like Solomon following through with his child-sharing strategy. The legs, heart, and left eye end up on the server, the arms and lungs go to the client, the head is left rolling around on the floor, and blood spurts everywhere. Don Hopkins - The Unix hater's handbook; The X-Windows disaster From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 15:59:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 27, 1 04:29:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010327/ebcf5d82/attachment.ksh From cz at bronze.lcs.mit.edu Tue Mar 27 16:32:58 2001 From: cz at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Christopher R. Zach) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: TU56 DECtape on Q-bus machine possible? In-Reply-To: Tony Eros's message of Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:47:27 -0500 <5.0.2.1.0.20010327144125.037db128@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <200103272232.f2RMWwd14293@bronze.lcs.mit.edu> Sure. Get a Qunivertor. Problem is most Qunivertors run in a straight translation mode, and don't do 22 bit DMA mapping. In addition, the old Dectape driver would probably need to be hacked to support the 22 bit DMA (yes the TU56 did DMA. Wow.) Question: Is it possible to take the Unibus map from an 11/84 and use it as a super-cool Qunivertor? I'm thinking run Q bus devices on the left of the map, then run Unibus devices on the right. Or does the 11/84 card interface to the memory using the PMI interface, and would be unable to snoop along with true Q bus cards? Chris From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Mar 27 16:27:14 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC memory In-Reply-To: <76.8e8cdf0.27f238d6@aol.com> Message-ID: Amdek's are nice but I have 5 or 6 original green IBM mono monitors out in storage with my dozen of so PC's and XT's that I ought to put up for sale or trade sometime while I'm selling off all of these PS/2's I have to find new homes for. Cash stores much better than computer equipment but if you have time to tinker with the computers then your outlook is opposite of mine. Guess I ought to seek new homes for the half dozen Zeniths I have too. But then what will hold the office trailer down in high winds (grin) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Innfogra@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 12:41 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Original IBM PC memory > > > > > > Actually, I do have an *original* IBM PC. March 82, 48k motherboard > > > (not the later 64k), SINGLE side 160K floppy, Amdek color monitor. > > > > Actually I think the first 5 slot IBM motherboard had 16K > soldered on the MB > and three rows of sockets for an additional 48K. this made it possible to > stuff it with a full 64K of Ram. The second version had 64K chips > soldered > and sockets to bring it up to 256K. > > Paxton > > Paxton > From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Tue Mar 27 16:14:04 2001 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Cromemco Z2-D setup? Message-ID: Can anyone tell me switch settings for this Cromemco S-100 system? I have what I believe is the CDOS boot diskette but (of course) no setup manuals. The system uses a ZPU Z-80 card, 16FDC floppy controller, and a 64KZ ram card. The 16FDC has one set of (8) switches; the 64KZ has three sets. The previous owner wasn't sure what to do with this box and by the time I rescued it the floppy drives had been connected up backwards and the dip switches on the cards had been moved around. You get the picture... Well, at least he did warn me he'd played with the switches. I also notice that one of the chip sockets (IC60) on the 64KZ has a set of wire shunts in it instead of a chip, connecting pins 1-8 straight through to pins 16-9. Was this standard? In the pictures in the old Cromemco ads it looks like a real chip in that socket. Thanks in advance, Arlen Michaels From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Mar 27 16:49:02 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane Message-ID: <3AC118DE.9060308@olf.com> Hi, I just got a dual 200MHz pentium pro with 128Megs single board computer + 14-slot PCI/ISA passive backplane. The backplane is about the size of an average ATX motherboard, so it can fit in an ATX chassis, but then I cant use all the slots. Does anyone know where I can get a 14-slot chassis really cheap?? Ram PS: if you are asking how the hell I can going to use 14 isa/pci slots on a computer, blame it on my transputer cards :-) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Mar 27 16:58:08 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: <20010327081910.GWMN3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, RebelTerry wrote: > So, if anyone knows where I could beg, borrow, or steal a DOS 1.0... If a copy will do, send me one of your blank "1.0" disks with a postage paid mailer, and I will "repair/re-record" (DISKCOPY) onto it. (You send me a disk and shipping to return it, and I will DISKCOPY 1.0 onto it; I will take your word that it once had a legitimate copy of 1.0 on it, and that you are not asking me to violate IBM's copyright) If you want the original with manual (no longer shrink wrapped) in slipcase, it's $60 plus $3.50 for PRIORITY mail. BTW, I bought my first 5150 with 16K of RAM. I did NOT want to pay IBM $90 for each row of 16K! -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 1213 Cornell Ave PO Box 1236 Berkeley, CA 94706 From curt at atari-history.com Tue Mar 27 17:12:07 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: NeXT's available UPDATE References: Message-ID: <3AC11E46.3F35509B@atari-history.com> Hi greg, I'll do the list tonight, but there should still be quite a few left. Curt "Gregory R. Travis" wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Arrangements are set for me to drive down Sunday to pick up the equipment, I > > will start working on the list of who has asked for what and post it here in the > > mailinglist, the stuff is getting spoken for quickly, up to about 15 people have > > asked for 1 workstation each, a few asked for 2. I will post where we are at > > sometime late tonight. > > > > > > Curt > > Hi Curt, > > Is it too late for me to put in a request for a workstation? > > Thanks, > > greg > > Gregory Travis > Cornerstone Information Systems ATS > greg@ciswired.com > 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Mar 27 15:34:07 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: Arno Kletzander "SUN networking problems" (Mar 27, 9:35) References: <9237.985678508@www37.gmx.net> Message-ID: <10103272234.ZM5619@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 27, 9:35, Arno Kletzander wrote: > New details on the SUN networking issue became available yesterday > [...] However, both SUNs' transceivers and the cable work as each > SUN can detect the other's presence. The > printer cannot be pinged or sent data to > Peter Turnbull wrote: > >Have you tried pinging the printer by it's IP address instead of > >it's name? Try a broadcast ping? > > As we're not too familiar with the commands, how is a broadcast > ping done? Instead of giving the IP address of a particular machine, give the broadcast address of the local subnet. The broadcast address is the subnet address but with the host part set to all 1's. For example, for the class C network 192.168.5.0, the broadcast address is 192.168.5.255. For the class B network 176.18.0.0, the broadcast address is 176.18.255.255, and for the class A network 10.0.0.0, it's 10.255.255.255. You should get a response from every device on that segment (every device in that broadcast domain, actually) which has an IP address within the subnet range. For example (my test subnet is 144.32.80.0 with subnet mask 255.255.254.0, so the last 9 bits are the host part): # ping -c 2 144.32.81.255 PING 144.32.81.255 (144.32.81.255): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 144.32.80.11: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=1 ms 64 bytes from 144.32.80.14: icmp_seq=0 DUP! ttl=255 time=1 ms 64 bytes from 144.32.80.99: icmp_seq=0 DUP! ttl=255 time=3 ms 64 bytes from 144.32.80.80: icmp_seq=0 DUP! ttl=60 time=3 ms 64 bytes from 144.32.80.22: icmp_seq=0 DUP! ttl=255 time=4 ms 64 bytes from 144.32.81.96: icmp_seq=0 DUP! ttl=255 time=39 ms 64 bytes from 144.32.80.11: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=1 ms ----144.32.81.255 PING Statistics---- 2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, +5 duplicates, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max = 1/7/39 ms # You can see it stopped when it got a response to the second 'ping' it sent (because I told it to use -c 2, ie send only two pings). The reason I suggested a broadcast ping is that anything that hears that should respond. The trouble is, no sensible implementation will do that for anything other than a local subnet, and if the printer doesn't have a proper IP address in the same range as the Suns (which it may not if it's trying to RARP or BOOTP) it won't even respond to a broadcast. So, after thinking about it, I'm not sure it will tell you much at the moment. > >Have you checked the printer settings to make sure it's using the > >correct IP address? Is that set from its panel, or by RARP/BOOTP/ > >DHCP? If the latter, it needs a server to boot. > > Tony Duell wrote: > >That printer isn't attempting to get information (IP address, > >software, whatever) from a server, is it? > > > We're trying hard at the moment to find the printer manual. We know we have > it somewhere, but it's buried... Another way to see what's happening, is to use 'snoop' if you have it on one of the Suns (tcpdump for Linux/BSD/etc is similar). You need to be logged in as root, and type "snoop -v" or "snoop -V". That will show you (in some detail; -V gives less detail) all the traffic visisble to the le0 interface. For example: # snoop -V Using device ec0 (promiscuous mode) ________________________________ indy -> (broadcast) ETHER Type=0806 (ARP), size = 42 bytes indy -> (broadcast) ARP C Who is 144.32.80.34, pissaro ? ________________________________ ? -> (multicast) ETHER Type=D709 (Unknown), size = 60 bytes ________________________________ ? -> (multicast) ETHER Type=D709 (Unknown), size = 60 bytes ________________________________ lanmodem -> 144.32.81.255 ETHER Type=0800 (IP), size = 146 bytes lanmodem -> 144.32.81.255 IP D=144.32.81.255 S=144.32.80.99 LEN=132, ID=53598 lanmodem -> 144.32.81.255 UDP D=2071 S=1025 LEN=112 ________________________________ indy -> lanmodem ETHER Type=0800 (IP), size = 86 bytes indy -> lanmodem IP D=144.32.80.99 S=144.32.80.11 LEN=72, ID=56653 indy -> lanmodem UDP D=53 S=2158 LEN=52 indy -> lanmodem DNS C port=2158 ________________________________ indy -> (broadcast) ETHER Type=0806 (ARP), size = 42 bytes indy -> (broadcast) ARP C Who is 144.32.80.34, pissaro ? ________________________________ ? -> (multicast) ETHER Type=D709 (Unknown), size = 60 bytes ________________________________ The first packet is one machine asking who knows the MAC address for a particular IP address; the next two are IPX discovery packets from a smart hub; fourth is a router advertising its connectivity to anyone who cares to listen; fifth is a machine making a DNS lookup request. > >Hmm... What are the LEDs on the transceivers labelled? > > The LEDs on the transceivers are only PWR (Power), SQE (as > on yours) and COL (which must be Collision). Nothing for TX or RX, although > that would be much more helpful for troubleshooting. If both the SQE and Collision LEDs flicker when you try to send something, that's not anything to worry about. If SQE is enabled on a transceiver, it sends a sort of artificial collision burst after each packet (which lights up SQE) and that is detected by every transceiver's collision detect circuit as a normal afterlude to the packet. You only worry when you see collisions without SQE :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 27 17:25:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <20010327182705.75782.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >surprise in the lot was inside one of the LC IIIs - an Apple IIe card. It >stood out because of the DB44? connector on the back, rather than the expected >RJ-45. I have heard of the Apple IIe compatibility card, but where can I find >a cable for this connector, which I presume is for attaching an external drive I have them, they split out two cables one for the gameport and one for a chain of floppy drives, but you need to use just certain floppy drives (I forget which). $6 plus $2.50 shipping in US. Of the three common ways to run A2 software; a real A2, this card, and emulation, the IIe card falls someplace in the middle of satisfaction and ease of use. You get fairly seamless access to the features of the LC, like hard drive and network, but I also remember some level of gripe about problems with certain things. Most of even the copy protected games though should work fine on the external floppies or even the internal maybe, and thats a step ahead of emulation. My personal planned Apple II army of machines are; (not the huge mess I have, what I plan to keep) A couple of the IIe cards in LC type machines. Wouldn't a Color Classic with a IIe be great? A couple IIgs, most likely networked to a AppleShare 3.0.4 server of some kind. Two pairs of IIc/c+ because they are so cute. My original II, much modified to IIe status with its Sider and Axlon ram drives as a stand alone system. Looking for a platinum IIe and a original II, a IIgs RGB display, and a few of the standard everybody wants them goodies like Zipchips, MacMill, etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 27 16:45:29 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <2036.486T300T8574405optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >Exactly, blame the HW bastards. But can anyone explain why there are so many >Mac-specific PCI video cards? A huge number of graphics designers are still 100% behind the mac, and cheerfully plop down thousands for the best hardware. OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. From azog at azog.org Tue Mar 27 17:31:57 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> Ok, this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not in the mood to go hunting things down. Basically, I'm a Mac-neophyte, and I guess I'll stay that way. So far, this is the only machine I've ever used that requires an OS to be installed, before you can install an OS! Sorry, not for me. I'm not naturally an idiot - I've been there for PDP-11's running RSX and RT-11 , VAXen running VMS (as well as bare machines of the same ilk), and a host of other machines I cannot even remember off the top of my head, and can at least deal with these. > > .smi is supposed to go with bunch of .part files. Put them on > mac emulator like basilisk II or on paste them on mac formatted > external hd attached to pc via HVF explorer (raw data fork, please), > yank it, reattach the hd to mac, and double click on one of them. It > will self assemble and plop itself in ramdrive, copy it to a new > folder. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 27 17:47:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <200103272118.OAA17470@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Mar 27, 1 02:18:06 pm" Message-ID: <200103272347.PAA14850@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > If you've ever watched Star Trek IV, the Voyage Home, the scene on the bus > where the punk rocker is given the Vulcan neck pinch for blasting his music > too loud clearly shows the punk rocker (also the author of the music, as it > turns out) using a Boom Box. They were such an annoyance that the scene > in the movie was universally greeted with cheers in the theater. Worse -- read the credits. Not only did he write the lyrics and play the role, he was the movie's associate producer! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Quote me as saying I was misquoted. -- Groucho Marx ------------------------ From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Mar 27 16:09:10 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <02fa01c0b70a$8cb4f7c0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy D'Augustine" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > Ok, this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not in the > mood to go hunting things down. Basically, I'm a Mac-neophyte, and I guess > I'll stay that way. So far, this is the only machine I've ever used that > requires an OS to be installed, before you can install an OS! I haven't really been following this thread, but here are a few thoughts: Another option would be to shelve the machine until you come across some original OS disks, for System 6.x or 7.x. I see them fairly often at thrifts and surplus sales. Then you can boot from a floppy, wipe the HD, and do a clean install. Or if the password program has locked the HD at a low level, replace the old HD with another 3.5" SCSI HD; 40-80 MB SCSI drives are a dime-a-dozen these days. Then you can start over, and join the wonderful world of Macintosh. They are fun machines, really. Of course, Amigas are _more_ fun, but that's just my personal prejudice talking ;v) Cheers, Mark. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Mar 27 17:47:04 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane In-Reply-To: <3AC118DE.9060308@olf.com> Message-ID: Not asking HOW you're going to use it but rather WHERE did you find one? I could absolutely use one if it were reasonable. Heck I could always build an alumimum case to accomodate it. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ram > Meenakshisundaram > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:49 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane > > > Hi, > > I just got a dual 200MHz pentium pro with 128Megs single board computer > + 14-slot PCI/ISA passive backplane. > The backplane is about the size of an average ATX motherboard, so it can > fit in an ATX chassis, but then I cant use all > the slots. Does anyone know where I can get a 14-slot chassis really > cheap?? > > Ram > > PS: if you are asking how the hell I can going to use 14 isa/pci slots > on a computer, blame it on my transputer cards :-) > > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Mar 27 18:01:44 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane In-Reply-To: <3AC118DE.9060308@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Mar 27, 2001 05:49:02 PM Message-ID: <200103280001.RAA18229@calico.litterbox.com> While we're on the topic of sbc/passive backplanes, can someone tell me if you can run an sbc without the backplane, assuming it's got a disk controller and whatever else you need on board? PRobably off topic, so private e-mail is great. > > Hi, > > I just got a dual 200MHz pentium pro with 128Megs single board computer > + 14-slot PCI/ISA passive backplane. > The backplane is about the size of an average ATX motherboard, so it can > fit in an ATX chassis, but then I cant use all > the slots. Does anyone know where I can get a 14-slot chassis really > cheap?? > > Ram > > PS: if you are asking how the hell I can going to use 14 isa/pci slots > on a computer, blame it on my transputer cards :-) > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Mar 27 18:04:26 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane References: Message-ID: <3AC12A8A.4040109@olf.com> I got the SBC and the passive backplane on ebay. The backplane cost me $30 and the SBC was $75. There is an auction for one right now for a 14 slots passive backplane. And there are tons of SBCs out there. Search for single board computer (titles only) and search for passive backplane (titles and contents) Ram Russ Blakeman wrote: > Not asking HOW you're going to use it but rather WHERE did you find one? I > could absolutely use one if it were reasonable. Heck I could always build an > alumimum case to accomodate it. > From broth at heathers.stdio.com Tue Mar 27 18:48:32 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: Sparcstation 10 Message-ID: <3AC134E0.81A41D6A@heathers.stdio.com> I just picked up a complete Sparc 10 system and I am having some video problems. When the system boots, the video is all ripped and looks like it wants to be in two columns. It seems to be in the wrong video mode. It does the same thing with both the mono monitor and color monitor I have for it. Popped the cover and it has a SUN GX video option board installed. Any idea's? Thanks, Brian. From ss at allegro.com Tue Mar 27 18:03:59 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <20010327054909.CKAU3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> References: <"v04210106b6e5aa2d948b(a)(091)216.58.99.129(093)*"@MHS> Message-ID: <3AC0B9EF.8685.19F4517B@localhost> Re: > A friend told me he saw an HP BASIC to C translator somewhere. If > someone has a 9845 that could read my disks (or maybe tapes) and > print them out on the built-in thermal printer, I could at least OCR the Or, you could run HP BASIC on a Windows system. Check http://www.htbasic.com/htbwindows.html A demo of something...perhaps the same product, perhaps not, is available from Agilent at http://ftp.agilent.com/pub/mpusup/pc/index.html (see bullet 3) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 17:42:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <200103271533.HAA10044@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <534.487T250T423467optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> They weren't the only manufacturer to use that type of connector for >> the >> keyboard though. I'm not saying it was a good design, but it was a >> connector that was small and readily available. The Atari ST, Amiga 1000, >> Coleco Adam, and I believe the IBM 5155, as well as plenty of serial >> terminals, used the same type of connector for the keyboard. >Old Sun mice use it too. And so do DEC LK?01 keyboards. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Allt ?r under kontroll, och caps lock ?r bredvid. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 17:44:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:28 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1155.487T2400T446053optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > I'm glad that all of the keyboards with that connector that I >have all are detachable. Makes replacement that much easier if >there's a problem. All of the ones I mentioned previously are >detachable at the keyboard, including my DECmate II, which I forgot >used the same type. It takes a bit more work to get the cable off >though since it runs through a little channel on the bottom of the >keyboard after it is connected. OTOH, the A1000 cable is easily replaced with a common telephone wire, unlike the Mac (it seems). >>Yes, if the locking clip catches on another cable (cables seem to tangle >>in the most amazing ways), it breaks off :-(. Horrible little connector. > Especially when you pack them into a box for movement. >Wrapping them around the keyboard lessens this somewhat but I dislike >doing that since it stretches the cable out of shape. I still think it's quite elegant, with that satisfying click when correctly inserted. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Iggy tipsar: Vill du l?sa en PDF-fil, men saknar l?sare, skicka den till pdf2txt@adobe.com, du f?r den tillbaka som ren ASCII till din epostadress. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 17:52:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <904.487T200T523873optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> That reminds me, since I'm an AUI novice. I picked up a DB15 straight >> through cable at Fry's (it was sold as a joystick extension but it works >I wouldn't use that for an AUI interface. It's not going to be twisted >pair, let alone twisted pair of the right impedance. Twisted pair? What exactly does that entail? As for impedance, I was under the impression, judging from the current discussion on the topic of 10B5 wiring, that the actual work of making the AUI output ethernet-worthy lay in the transceiver. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. You can pay off the cops so they won't visit your neighborhood,convince girls that work for other pimps to work for you,etc. When you're in a bind,you can consult Mega-Pimp. Mega-Pimp is the soul of a long dead pimp that resides in the gold medallion you wear around your neck. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 17:53:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: MGA card... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <645.487T2600T536261optimus@canit.se> Gene Buckle skrev: >> Gene: >> >> I may still have a few in my parts drawer. I'll check tonight and let you >> know. >> >> If I still have them, they're yours gratis. >> >Thanks Kenneth, it's appriciated! Do you know if there are any speed >issues with these cards? If so, it'll dictate what I can stuff them >into. :) IIRC, when we replaced the 64-bit PCI card in our Pentium 90 server with an EGA card, the memory count at the beginning was suddenly slowed down a whole lot. I suppose it couldn't output the continuous text fast enough. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 18:51:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3435.487T400T1113957optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> Tony Duell skrev: >> >> >OK, these drives are non-stnadard enough that you can't plug them >> >straight into a PC's floppy controller. But that's not really what I was >> >talking about. Thing is, I can take a floppy disk from one of the HP >> >units, put it in a PC drive, and read/write to it using the right >> >software. There is no way a PC can read an original Apple Mac disk. >> >> Yoiu're so PC-centric. Since there really weren't any PCs with 3,5" floppy >I take that as an insult... Then you're on the right way. =) >> drives, that was a moot point. The Amiga used a format of its own as well= >> , >Thing is, the PC's floppy disk system was about as standard as you could >get. Normal MFM encoding, stnadard SA400-like interface to the drives. I >could have said 'TRS-80 Model 4' or 'Gemini Galaxy' (a UK CP/M machine) >or 'Epson QX10' or 'Torch XXX' or a number of other machines and the >point would have been the same. All those machines, at least in >principle, can read disks formatted on the others, at least at the >hardware level. All of them can have 3.5" drives added if you want to. But what if you don't like MFM encoding? Since the Amiga drive IIRC works at a lower level, it hasn't got any preferred encoding, so that it may still read MFM if necessary, without being constrained to that particular encoding. What you are suggesting is adopting the lowest common denominator and sacrificing flexibility. >If we just require disk compatibility (i.e. the drives can have an odd >interface) you can add other machines to that list as well, like many of >the machines using the Sony 3.5" full-height drives. That's nice. >> >And I am quite sure that what most users would care about is being able >> >to transfer files (even just text) between their machine and their >> >cow-orker's machine. Which might be in another town, or another country, >> >so you can't set them up next to each other with a null-modem cable. >> >> Couldn't the original Macs read PC disks using Apple file exchange or sim= >> ilar >> programs? >No. The IWM (Integrated Woz Machine) disk controller in the Mac/Mac >512/Mac+ can't read anything but Apple GCR disks. It's impossible Now, that's a pity. First the Lisa drive, then the Mac. I thought that a drive with variable speed would be able to read most formats. >> >I still think the correct solution to that is to use a bigger case. I >> >have never understood this love of making things small, especially not >> >when there are good technical reasons not to do so. >> >> If you live in a 17 m=B2 flat like I do, you'll come to appreciate such t= >> hings. >> =3D) >Hmm... I ran out of space _years_ ago, but I still prefer larger machines >that use the standard connectors and which are large enough to work on... But then again the Mac isn't for us. It's nice to have a lot of flat desktop machines which are easily stackable, but if you've only got one machine, stackability is a minor concern. Besides, most standard PCs are hidously ugly. It's no coincidence interior designers and fashion photographer prefer Macs to bland Taiwanese mini towers. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 18:51:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <657.487T2800T1116509optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >[ZX81 is not expandable???] >> >>Because it hasn't got any expansion ports? >> >> > But it does...the port on the rear that the 16k RAM pack >> >plugs up to. Printers and all plugged up to that edge connector. >> >> Sorry, I must have been thinking of the ZX80. =3D) >Which, unless I am much mistaken, has the _same_ bus connector on the >back. The Jupiter Ace has a similar connector, but with a different >pinout (FWIW). I thought that since the ZX80's memory couldn't be expanded, there were no expansion port either. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Mar 27 18:10:06 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <200103272347.PAA14850@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Mar 27, 2001 03:47:28 PM Message-ID: <200103280010.RAA18279@calico.litterbox.com> > > > If you've ever watched Star Trek IV, the Voyage Home, the scene on the bus > > where the punk rocker is given the Vulcan neck pinch for blasting his music > > too loud clearly shows the punk rocker (also the author of the music, as it > > turns out) using a Boom Box. They were such an annoyance that the scene > > in the movie was universally greeted with cheers in the theater. > > Worse -- read the credits. Not only did he write the lyrics and play > the role, he was the movie's associate producer! > I was sort of assuming the associate producer was a father with the same name, to be honest, but if it's not, he should definately stick to his day job (producing movies) and give up on music. I've heard punk I like and that wasn't it. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 13:30:22 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <20010328002959.YPCB22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Billy D'Augustine" > To: > Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:31:57 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Ok, this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not in the > mood to go hunting things down. Basically, I'm a Mac-neophyte, and I guess > I'll stay that way. So far, this is the only machine I've ever used that > requires an OS to be installed, before you can install an OS! Sorry, not for > me. I'm not naturally an idiot - I've been there for PDP-11's running RSX > and RT-11 , VAXen running VMS (as well as bare machines of the same ilk), > and a host of other machines I cannot even remember off the top of my head, > and can at least deal with these. This is reason I suggested starting building up a OS on external drive via basilisk II emulator. You can download bare system boot disk image and rawrite (Linux packages or linux download has it) it to a blank 1.44MB disk and load it with a getrom that came with basilisk II package via the HVF explorer. Boot up that diskette, run getrom to pull rom data off the SE/30 onto that disk, transfer it to basilisk II on your peecee, run basilisk and with new OS 7.0.1 or 6.0.8 (both free) copied over to hard drive HFS image for that basilisk II emulator. Finally create a external HD w/ good OS on it. The rest of it is easy, point and click. The trick is that mac internal HD given a low number ID while that external bootable HD given a higher ID. The Mac searches for bootable drive starting with ID 6 to 0, the system host being ID 7. When it finds the bootable drive on the scsi chain even you have more than 3 bootable HD drives, it's the first drive with highest ID number found on that chain and boots from that. That's how I found out when I hooked two bootable HDs to mac. This way, you can bypass the SE/30 OS on that internal hd and deal with that. I was like that with Mac but it was easier because I already worked with peecees, naturally follows through despite that Mac is different but much simpler and easier than winblows or even PDP from what I see on 'net and on that list! Cheers, Wizard > > > > > .smi is supposed to go with bunch of .part files. Put them on > > mac emulator like basilisk II or on paste them on mac formatted > > external hd attached to pc via HVF explorer (raw data fork, please), > > yank it, reattach the hd to mac, and double click on one of them. It > > will self assemble and plop itself in ramdrive, copy it to a new > > folder. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 18:33:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <904.487T200T523873optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 28, 1 00:52:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1660 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/c755ec0f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 18:34:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? In-Reply-To: <657.487T2800T1116509optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 28, 1 01:51:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 375 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/45ae92c7/attachment.ksh From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Mar 27 18:42:50 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <3AC13384.805A85AC@eoni.com> Funny... all the DEC stuff that I used to care for required bootstrap instructions before *they'd* run... Mac OS is the same way. Needs enough of a system to know that it's really a computer and not just a lump of plastic and silicon. ;o) Contact me off list and I'll get you a startup diskette. Jim From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 27 18:49:12 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane References: <200103280001.RAA18229@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <003d01c0b720$e83e5710$0a01a8c0@station1> > While we're on the topic of sbc/passive backplanes, can someone tell > me if you can run an sbc without the backplane, assuming it's got a > disk controller and whatever else you need on board? Yes. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Mar 27 18:44:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <3435.487T400T1113957optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 28, 1 01:51:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2223 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/ce43bc49/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Mar 27 17:33:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane In-Reply-To: <200103280001.RAA18229@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > While we're on the topic of sbc/passive backplanes, can someone tell > me if you can run an sbc without the backplane, assuming it's got a > disk controller and whatever else you need on board? PRobably off > topic, so private e-mail is great. As long as you can get power to it, yes :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 27 18:50:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> References: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >Ok, this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not in the >mood to go hunting things down. Basically, I'm a Mac-neophyte, and I guess >I'll stay that way. So far, this is the only machine I've ever used that >requires an OS to be installed, before you can install an OS! Sorry, not for >me. I'm not naturally an idiot - I've been there for PDP-11's running RSX Not a big deal, I get systems all the time that I can't do a stinkin thing with. Just pass it on to somebody else. 10 minutes with a handfull of the correct floppies and your system would be running just fine. A password locked system isn't exactly rare, and at least yours has a simple solution, the password on my Grid laptops apparently has me totally screwed. Two suggestions; Give or sell the system to a mac person. Anybody with a working mac should have no trouble quickly making the needed floppies and getting the little bugger fully operational again. If somebody is local to you maybe they would be willing to do the quick fix for you. Get somebody to make you a set of floppies and snail mail them to you, or email them in a format that works with that PC disc program. People sell sets of system software on eBay all the time, and I see many people sending sets of floppies for nothing in the various mac forums. ************ The set of discs you need are: About a 5 floppy set of OS 7.0, with a extra copy of the "Disk Tools" floppy that has had SilverLining or some other 3rd party drive formatting software installed on it. You would boot from the silverlining floppy and update the drivers on the hard drive. Hopefully the hard drive could then be mounted and you might be able to save any usefull content, otherwise you would need to format with silverlining, then install the OS software off the floppy set and start looking for software on the net. From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 19:47:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment Message-ID: <1293.487T1600T1674781optimus@canit.se> This weekend, along with a batch of PS/2s, I received a 3Com 3c588 1988 vintage MultiConnect Repeater. It's a 19" case with space for sixteen cards. Mine features one card indicating power with a green LED as well as a DB-9 female connector, then fourteen cards equipped with a BNC connector, an activity led, one partition LED and a partition/reset switch each. Whenever a card is connected to a 10b2 network, the partition light (which otherwise emits a steady red light) begins to flicker. Upon flicking the switch into reset mode, the partition light goes out. The network works fine as long as there is no partitioning. I suppose its purpose is to not leak traffic between several networks. But there still are some things I'd like to find out. What is the purpose of the DB-9 connector? Could this repeater slow a network down? What does partitioning actually entail? Does anyone have any other cards for this beast? I know there are 10bT cards as well. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Ecco a voi la sigla di Lupin III in francese... ma... aspettate... qualcosa non quadra...cos'e' questa roba! Holly e Benji? ahahah... povero cantante... gli hanno messo sotto la base sbagliata!!! Tacchan undrar varf?r Captain Tsubasa p? franska har samma ackompanjemang som Lupin III p? italienska From optimus at canit.se Tue Mar 27 19:46:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <756.487T50T1664155optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>Exactly, blame the HW bastards. But can anyone explain why there are so many >>Mac-specific PCI video cards? >A huge number of graphics designers are still 100% behind the mac, and >cheerfully plop down thousands for the best hardware. Now, that's true in the case of Radius and RasterOps cards, but why common gamer and lamer cards? >OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. Why? No Virge drivers, no SB drivers? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r / das wu?te ich so gut / was so ein junger Boy / aus lauter Liebe tut /?ich w?rde in die Schwulenscene gehn /?und sexy Boys den Kopf verdrehn / ich h?tt genug Verkehr / wenn ich ein Junge w?r. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r - Nina Hagen From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 19:01:18 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. At least with the current crop of PCI video cards, Mac users aren't having to pay double what everyone else is. Before they ceased production, the Mac version of the Voodoo5 was priced nearly the same as the PC version and it did include Mac specific stuff such as the digital video output. It's a heck of a nice card too....to bad it died so suddenly. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 14:05:12 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <3AC13384.805A85AC@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20010328010447.BKXC1684.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:42:50 -0800 > From: Jim Arnott > Organization: WetWesties > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Funny... all the DEC stuff that I used to care for required bootstrap > instructions before *they'd* run... Mac OS is the same way. Needs > enough of a system to know that it's really a computer and not just a > lump of plastic and silicon. ;o) Exactly with any machines, old dust-filled, medium old, recent, new or smelly, shiny spanking new w/ shipping wrappers and boxes lying besides it. All computers needs OS to become alive, even on ROMs. > Contact me off list and I'll get you a startup diskette. Do you don't mind telling us how one build a bootable diskette for Mac that has OS 6.0.x and 7.x.x installed on their HD? That system folder is too big to fit on a diskette. How is this done to get it down to size to work? I searched the 'net for that info without success. That disktools diskettes I got is dumbed down and locked to a fault and doesn't do very much besides HD rescue and HD SC init. That disktools is stubbornly possesive of its disk even I ejected it for another disk with different stuff. Cheers, Wizard > Jim From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Mar 27 19:13:16 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith Hero Jr - No HTML In-Reply-To: References: <004601c0b631$e2e6c080$7937fea9@Guerney> from "Phil Guerney" at Mar 27, 1 06:18:08 am Message-ID: <3AC0F45C.32556.5C5616F@localhost> I have a couple of old 675W Tripp Lite backup systems with spike and surge suppression, one of which I am using now in my multi-puter set-up. It takes the 120v residential supply and charges up a lead-acid automobile type 12v battery and then converts it back to 120v feeding 4 plugs. The cables on one are even the post clamp type. I've often thought that I could likely wire it into an automotive system for using household appliances or computers in a van for travelling. I've been amazed at how long it still outputs during a blackout. I believe they were originally used in an office environment. Would these be equivalent to what you call a "high-class" charger ? I've never put a scope across the outputs and of course the output is further smoothed by the CPSU on the puters. larry > > I was amazed to find a local classified ad for a Hero Jr in the Saturday > > morning paper and soon after I was owner of a very clean Robot for a few > > dollars (about time I had that sort of luck). Unused for many years but just > > Ooohh _very_ nice!!!! > > > The old battery will not take a charge using my car [translation - auto] > > battery "trickle" charger, so I'll have to wait 'till next week to buy a new > > 12V 3.5A sealed lead/acid battery - that's how this Australian model was > > In general it's a bad idea to charge sealed lead acid batteries from the > average (crude) car battery charge. Sealed lead acid batteries need to be > charged from a constant voltage source of the right voltage. > > > powered - not like the 6V batteries described on the web pages for the Hero > > Jr. And I don't have a 12V PSU to power it up with in the meantime. Am I > > using an appropriate re-charging device? And could I use the trickle charger > > itself as the PSU for testing? A multimeter reads about 13V across the > > terminals when it is powered up, but with my minimal electrical knowledge I > > do not dare try something that could be fatal to the Hero. > > I wouldn't do it. Most car battery chargers (at least in the UK) are > little more than a transformer, a bridge rectifier, and maybe a > moving-iron ammeter. No smoothing, and certainly no regulation. After > all, for the intended use (charging 'wet' lead acid batteries), that's > all you need. > > That's not the sort of supply I'd apply to electronic devices. > > Of course you might have a high-class battery charger that outputs > something approximating to smooth DC, but I've yet to see one. > > 12V PSUs are not that hard to find. I believe the amateur radio or CB > crowd use them for running mobile (car type) rigs at home. So you might > be able to get one that was designed for that sort of use. It may well > claim to be 13.8V which, IMHO, would be fine for this application > > -tony > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Mar 27 19:13:15 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: References: <002701c0b680$cc959c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AC0F45B.28509.5C5613D@localhost> My Zenith luggable m.171 8088 also uses this to get into the excellent monitor program. IIRC so did the Z100 CPMs. One of the great problems of 286clones was they lost all settings if the battery went dead. While there was the utility for getting the BIOS config. {"getbios.com" ?} many other settings were hard to retrieve unless you had the boot disk. The PS/2 reference disks at least had Big Blue providing support. There's much to be said for the older dip switch method. I was fortunate in getting set-up disks for my NEC 286 Pro-Speed before they disappeared into that great abandoned archive in the sky. larry > >AWARD also uses the DEL during POST as well, at least in about 10 of > >the boxes I > >have here. Phoenix uses at any time during POST, though I > >seldom see that > >one outside of Packard Bell, HP, and other U.S. makers' systems. > > There were some odd combinations such as , > which was used by Zenith on their 286 powered Z-248's, as well as the > software based programs such as those used by Tandy and others. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Mar 27 19:13:16 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Grid Peripherals Message-ID: <3AC0F45C.5653.5C561A1@localhost> A friend of mine who knows I highly desired a Grid computer in my collection just dropped off some black peripherals he picked up at a yard sale, to my delight. There's a 3.5 and a 5.25 ext fdd, and an ext CDROM, all with cables, an Extended Duty Battery Pack, and 2 60 Watt Power supplies (used in1200,1307, 1500, and 3403 models it says). The CD cables have 50 pin (3rows) connectors. Was this some sort of SCSI or a common HD connecter for Grid ? What models would these likely work with ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Mar 27 19:13:15 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <01Mar27.092923est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3AC0F45B.15850.5C56110@localhost> The Atari ST is an integrated machine. I guess you mean a TT. Also the DEC Micros - Rainbow et al, with the LK201 KB. Larry > >Hmmm... Again, there's the dangerous telephone wires, plug that in > >place of properly wired apple wire for keyboard. POW! Goes the > >keyboard microcontroller. That's another fatal design thanks to > >apple for using telephone jacks instead of some kind of connectors. > > They weren't the only manufacturer to use that type of connector for the > keyboard though. I'm not saying it was a good design, but it was a > connector that was small and readily available. The Atari ST, Amiga 1000, > Coleco Adam, and I believe the IBM 5155, as well as plenty of serial > terminals, used the same type of connector for the keyboard. My main > complaint about that connector is that it is so frail. Not everyone enjoys > cutting off the broken connector and wiring a new one back on! > > Jeff > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From azog at azog.org Tue Mar 27 19:21:54 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> <3AC13384.805A85AC@eoni.com> Message-ID: <005e01c0b725$79ee30a0$0a00a8c0@azog> I was ranting :P There's a point where the fun-factor hits zero, and pretty much hit it for this particular item... anyone in NJ near New Providence want this? Trade for DEC stuff :) I pulled the drive out, not because I want it or anything, but out of respect for what may still be on it, because of the junk pile where I found it. > Funny... all the DEC stuff that I used to care for required bootstrap > instructions before *they'd* run... Mac OS is the same way. Needs > enough of a system to know that it's really a computer and not just a > lump of plastic and silicon. ;o) > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 14:24:18 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <20010328012348.QGGN29116.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Billy D'Augustine" > To: > Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 18:31:57 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Ok, this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not in the > mood to go hunting things down. Basically, I'm a Mac-neophyte, and I guess > I'll stay that way. So far, this is the only machine I've ever used that > requires an OS to be installed, before you can install an OS! Sorry, not for > me. I'm not naturally an idiot - I've been there for PDP-11's running RSX > and RT-11 , VAXen running VMS (as well as bare machines of the same ilk), > and a host of other machines I cannot even remember off the top of my head, > and can at least deal with these. Bill, if you prefer to have someone who appeciate Macs, I'd love to have your SE/30 if you choose to. I haven't seen one like this except SE Macs and anything else. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 14:24:18 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <756.487T50T1664155optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <20010328012404.QGJS29116.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: 28 Mar 2001 2:46:1 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: AAUI > To: "Mike Ford" > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip > >OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. > > Why? No Virge drivers, no SB drivers? Vomits... :-P Mostly bogus "3D" accelerator. Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 27 14:34:47 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <005e01c0b725$79ee30a0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <20010328013434.WYYY24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Billy D'Augustine" > To: > Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:21:54 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I was ranting :P There's a point where the fun-factor hits zero, and pretty > much hit it for this particular item... > > anyone in NJ near New Providence want this? Trade for DEC stuff :) I pulled > the drive out, not because I want it or anything, but out of respect for > what may still be on it, because of the junk pile where I found it. Bill, Okay, I don't live in NJ, don't have DEC stuff either, I don't mind paying the shipping for it. I'm in southeastern ontario, canada. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 19:41:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard In-Reply-To: <3AC0F45B.28509.5C5613D@localhost> References: <002701c0b680$cc959c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AC0F45B.28509.5C5613D@localhost> Message-ID: > My Zenith luggable m.171 8088 also uses this to get into the >excellent monitor >program. IIRC so did the Z100 CPMs. One of the great problems of >286clones was >they lost all settings if the battery went dead. While there was the >utility for getting >the BIOS config. {"getbios.com" ?} many other settings were hard to retrieve >unless you had the boot disk. The PS/2 reference disks at least had Big Blue >providing support. There's much to be said for the older dip switch method. > I was fortunate in getting set-up disks for my NEC 286 Pro-Speed before they >disappeared into that great abandoned archive in the sky. One problem with losing the BIOS settings after a dead battery was with the hard disk setup. Since it was generally a hit-or-miss type thing, even if you knew the exact geometry, it might be hard to actually get the disk set back up and working again while being able to still read the data. Since user-definable drive types came a bit later, it was common for people to pick a drive type that was 'close' and it wasn't always possible to reconfigure it properly later on. It was always a good idea to at least write down the drive parameters used, or even tape it to the inside of the cover! It wasn't bad with the standard drives like the ST-225 or ST-251 but oddball drives were a problem. One thing that appeared a lot in my support of the Z-248's was that people would be told how to warm-boot the machine and then they'd inadvertently hit instead. One guy did this and flailed around in the monitor program trying to get out and he changed the video adapter settings. Once I got there, I had to reset it without being able to see the display. Thankfully I worked in that monitor long enough that I could recall how many times to tab down until I got to that option and then switched it back. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Mar 27 19:45:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <3AC0F45B.15850.5C56110@localhost> References: <3AC0F45B.15850.5C56110@localhost> Message-ID: > The Atari ST is an integrated machine. I guess you mean a TT. >Also the DEC Micros - Rainbow et al, with the LK201 KB. The Mega series ST machines had seperate keyboards. I have a MegaST 2 here. I've never had the pleasure of using either the TT or Falcon series machines. My DECmate II uses the same LK201 keyboard, I just forgot to include it on my list. I was at work at the time and the other machines were the ones that came to mind immediately. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Mar 27 19:49:31 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane In-Reply-To: <3AC12A8A.4040109@olf.com> Message-ID: Appreciate it. I saw your past auction bids and it gave me a few ideas. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ram > Meenakshisundaram > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:04 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 14 slot chassis needed for an isa/pci backplane > > > I got the SBC and the passive backplane on ebay. The backplane cost me > $30 and the SBC was $75. > There is an auction for one right now for a 14 slots passive backplane. > And there are tons of SBCs out there. > Search for single board computer (titles only) and search for passive > backplane (titles and contents) > > Ram > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Not asking HOW you're going to use it but rather WHERE did you > find one? I > > could absolutely use one if it were reasonable. Heck I could > always build an > > alumimum case to accomodate it. > > > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Mar 27 20:00:43 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: ide harddrive Message-ID: <3AC145CA.1C62CF14@kcinter.net> Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as well. I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested please email me at elecdata@kcinter.net Thanks Bill Claussen Elecdata1 (ebay) From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 27 20:21:00 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: NeXT's available UPDATE In-Reply-To: References: <3AC11AC9.7F0F09F8@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010327182051.025840f0@mail.zipcon.net> I second that :) At 04:27 PM 3/27/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Arrangements are set for me to drive down Sunday to pick up the > equipment, I > > will start working on the list of who has asked for what and post it > here in the > > mailinglist, the stuff is getting spoken for quickly, up to about 15 > people have > > asked for 1 workstation each, a few asked for 2. I will post where > we are at > > sometime late tonight. > > > > > > Curt > >Hi Curt, > >Is it too late for me to put in a request for a workstation? > >Thanks, > >greg > >Gregory Travis >Cornerstone Information Systems ATS >greg@ciswired.com >812 330 4361 ext. 18 From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 27 20:22:38 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: <02fa01c0b70a$8cb4f7c0$0200a8c0@marvin> References: <20010327221247.WFVG22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <001901c0b716$205e7a40$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010327182200.02584d00@mail.zipcon.net> I have some 7.0.x disks i can make copies of if needed, also I have an apple developer cd that has 6.x and 7.0.x on it... At 03:09 PM 3/27/01 -0700, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Billy D'Augustine" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 4:31 PM >Subject: Re: Mac SE/30 > > > > Ok, this is getting to be more trouble than it's worth, and I'm not in >the > > mood to go hunting things down. Basically, I'm a Mac-neophyte, and I >guess > > I'll stay that way. So far, this is the only machine I've ever used that > > requires an OS to be installed, before you can install an OS! > >I haven't really been following this thread, but here are a few thoughts: >Another option would be to shelve the machine until you come across some >original OS disks, for System 6.x or 7.x. I see them fairly often at >thrifts and surplus sales. Then you can boot from a floppy, wipe the HD, >and do a clean install. Or if the password program has locked the HD at a >low level, replace the old HD with another 3.5" SCSI HD; 40-80 MB SCSI >drives are a dime-a-dozen these days. Then you can start over, and join the >wonderful world of Macintosh. They are fun machines, really. > >Of course, Amigas are _more_ fun, but that's just my personal prejudice >talking ;v) > >Cheers, >Mark. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Mar 27 20:26:12 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Sparcstation 10 In-Reply-To: <3AC134E0.81A41D6A@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010327182506.02583c30@mail.zipcon.net> Are you running it on a SUN monitor? what sort of cable are you using? At 07:48 PM 3/27/01 -0500, Brian Roth wrote: >I just picked up a complete Sparc 10 system and I am having some video >problems. When the system boots, the video is all ripped and looks like >it wants to be in two columns. It seems to be in the wrong video mode. >It does the same thing with both the mono monitor and color monitor I >have for it. Popped the cover and it has a SUN GX video option board >installed. > >Any idea's? > >Thanks, >Brian. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Mar 27 20:17:15 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <3AC0B0C9.8E05639E@softstar.it> References: <3.0.5.32.20010327062659.009a9c00@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010327181715.009d0ae0@192.168.42.129> At 17:24 27-03-2001 +0200, Enrico wrote: >> Maybe we could all chip in and send them a ten-year old boom-box? ;-) > >Can you tell a non native english speaker what a "ten-year old boom-box" is? Sure. Ever seen those humongous "portable" AM/FM/Tape/CD/Lord-Knows-What combination devices? The things that are big enough that they wouldn't be out of place as a (cheap) home stereo system? Those are boom-boxes. Also known as ghetto blasters. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jss at ou.edu Tue Mar 27 20:48:45 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd References: <3.0.5.32.20010327062659.009a9c00@192.168.42.129> <3.0.5.32.20010327181715.009d0ae0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <00a001c0b731$9bbc18d0$0a01a8c0@station1> > Sure. Ever seen those humongous "portable" AM/FM/Tape/CD/Lord-Knows- > What combination devices? The things that are big enough that they > wouldn't be out of place as a (cheap) home stereo system? I'm 22. These were cool when I was in early grade school. If you wanted to be the coolest kid, your boombox had a TV and detachable speakers. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From broth at heathers.stdio.com Tue Mar 27 21:32:56 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Sparcstation 10 References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010327182506.02583c30@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3AC15B67.56C578D7@heathers.stdio.com> Yup. Both are SUN monitors. The one that came with it is a GDM20D10. Cable is attached to the monitor.The other is a mono. Brian. Geoff Reed wrote: > Are you running it on a SUN monitor? what sort of cable are you using? > > At 07:48 PM 3/27/01 -0500, Brian Roth wrote: > >I just picked up a complete Sparc 10 system and I am having some video > >problems. When the system boots, the video is all ripped and looks like > >it wants to be in two columns. It seems to be in the wrong video mode. > >It does the same thing with both the mono monitor and color monitor I > >have for it. Popped the cover and it has a SUN GX video option board > >installed. > > > >Any idea's? > > > >Thanks, > >Brian. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Mar 27 21:14:59 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Sparcstation 10 In-Reply-To: <3AC15B67.56C578D7@heathers.stdio.com> from "Brian Roth" at Mar 27, 2001 10:32:56 PM Message-ID: <200103280314.TAA24642@shell1.aracnet.com> What's the number on the GX board, and is it a Single or Double width board? I'd have thought a GX board would work just fine with a 20D10 monitor I'm surprised you're getting anything on a Mono monitor though. The following web page should be of help: http://www.sunhelp.org/faq/FrameBuffer.html If it's a GX though, I'd recommend spending the money and grabbng a cheap one off of eBay. BTW, nice monitor with the 20D10 you lucky ******, I've been trying to find a decent monitor around here for my SparcStation 20/712. Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Mar 27 21:18:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd Message-ID: <011601c0b735$bc7a8670$d3789a8d@ajp166> From: Jeffrey S. Sharp >I'm 22. These were cool when I was in early grade school. If you wanted to >be the coolest kid, your boombox had a TV and detachable speakers. I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your radio had six transistors, cooler if it had FM and rich if your portable tape could take 5 or 7" reels. Allison From jruschme at mac.com Tue Mar 27 21:50:48 2001 From: jruschme at mac.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <200103280252.UAA63736@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200103280252.UAA63736@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >From: Ethan Dicks >Subject: Mac haul and print server questions > >The March winds have been unsurpassed at depositing Macintosh parts at my >feet. Last week, at my new job, a new co-worker gave me a pair of AAUI >10BaseT transceivers; the show at Dayton disgorged a Quadra 660AV; and the >university surplus turned out to be a gold mine. For $5 each, I picked up >a 15" Mac monitor, two LC IIIs, two IIsis, an external 170Mb disk, >and an Apple >external 80Mb disk. I got for free from the cable bin, some LocalTalk cables, >three LocalTalk dongles, one PhoneNet dongle (w/terminator) and three data- >center-grade AUI cables, including a DEC-branded one (perfect for my VAX8200) >Most of these accessories I've been looking for with some intensity of late. Nice haul. >Finally, now that I have an abundance of Ethernet-capable Macs, I want to turn >to a long-standing project - turning a Mac into an Ethernet<->LocalTalk print >server. I don't care if I have to sacrifice one of my larger Macs and run >a variety of UNIX, but what I want is to be able to print from other machines, >UNIX, Windoze, Amiga, etc., over whatever protocol I can manage to universally >support, and print to this HP Deskwriter 660 that is sitting here, lonely. >Additionally, I could drive an HP LaserJet 4/ML over the LocalTalk port from >the same print server. Are there any packages for the Mac that will let me >share the printer with non-Apple-based machines? Is there something like >CAP (Columbua AppleTalk Protocol?) for Windoze? (I've used it with Linux) The closest thing to CAP for Windows would be PC-MACLAN from Miramar systems (www.miramarsys.com). There is also, of course, Thursby's Dave which whould give you Windows networking on the Mac. If we're talking just printing, then you might want to look for one of the old 'lpd' packages for the mac, though I'm not sure how the Windows boxes would fit in. Personally, I'd consider moving the LaserJet to a Linux box running netatalk (like CAP, but nicer) and possibly also installing a LocalTalk board. As an alternative to the LocalTalk card, use a second system (LC III or IIsi) with a minimal system running Apple's LocalTalk Bridge. <<>> From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 27 22:06:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <00a001c0b731$9bbc18d0$0a01a8c0@station1> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at "Mar 27, 1 08:48:45 pm" Message-ID: <200103280406.UAA12194@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Sure. Ever seen those humongous "portable" AM/FM/Tape/CD/Lord-Knows- > > What combination devices? The things that are big enough that they > > wouldn't be out of place as a (cheap) home stereo system? > > I'm 22. These were cool when I was in early grade school. If you wanted to > be the coolest kid, your boombox had a TV and detachable speakers. Why, you young whippersnapper! They were cool when *I* was in junior high! :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is the business of the future to be dangerous. -- Hawkwind -------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 27 22:13:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Mar 27, 1 08:01:18 pm" Message-ID: <200103280413.UAA15052@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. > > At least with the current crop of PCI video cards, Mac users > aren't having to pay double what everyone else is. Before they > ceased production, the Mac version of the Voodoo5 was priced nearly > the same as the PC version and it did include Mac specific stuff such > as the digital video output. It's a heck of a nice card too....to > bad it died so suddenly. The early Rage 128 PCI cards were pretty inexpensive too. I picked up my Rage Orion for $135 new. Great card for the money -- not fabulous output but certainly more than decent. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The steady state of disks is full. -- Ken Thompson ------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Mar 27 22:20:17 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <200103280010.RAA18279@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Mar 27, 1 05:10:06 pm" Message-ID: <200103280420.UAA10484@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Worse -- read the credits. Not only did he write the lyrics and play > > the role, he was the movie's associate producer! > I was sort of assuming the associate producer was a father with the same > name, to be honest, but if it's not, he should definately stick to his > day job (producing movies) and give up on music. I've heard punk I like > and that wasn't it. It was pretty funny though :-) "And oiiiiiiiii ... hate you! And oiiiiiii be-RATE you! And oiiiiiii ... " Pretty accurate faux Sid Vicious if you ask me. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my tarantula is getting neutered." ------- From schoedel at kw.igs.net Tue Mar 27 21:30:55 2001 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Now, how similar is the CPU to the 9825's CPU? If it's the same >hybrid, then the I/O bus is reasonably-well documented, e.g. in the 98032 >service manual. According to the HPJournal article, it's similar but not identical. I remember that it replaces an indirect bit on memory access with an additional direct address bit, but I don't remember whether the article says anything about electrical differences. >In the 9825, the I/O modules plug into a little backplane with a ribbon >cable linking it to the rest of the machine (tape controller, CPU board, >KDP interface [1]) Since the backplane is just connectors, the pinout of >the ribbon cable is trivial to deduce. If that's what links to the >'monitor' in the 9845, then it should be possible to figure out what is >going on. The 9845 does have the same I/O backplane, but I don't believe the monitor connections are the same. The monitor sits on two 'legs', each with a card edge connector; some of the alphanumeric display logic sits in the main box under the left leg and connects to the rest on the left side of the monitor, while the right side of the monitor holds the (optional) bitmap memory and connects through the right leg. (The alphanumeric display runs off a display list, not a rectangular buffer; the I/O processor alternately fills two single-line buffers, and from a quick glance at the block diagram, *those* are in the main box.) It might not actually be too difficult to figure things out -- at least what the turn-on fixture is -- but I don't have time right now to look at it or read the whole manual. -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Mar 27 23:32:55 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: <3AC145CA.1C62CF14@kcinter.net> Message-ID: it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... clint On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as > well. > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested > please email me at > elecdata@kcinter.net > > Thanks > > Bill Claussen > Elecdata1 (ebay) > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Mar 27 23:49:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <756.487T50T1664155optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>A huge number of graphics designers are still 100% behind the mac, and >>cheerfully plop down thousands for the best hardware. > >Now, that's true in the case of Radius and RasterOps cards, but why common >gamer and lamer cards? The hottest card for the mac, and anything else has to be the Geforce3, most of the other mac compatible cards are rather generic in performance. Its a sick joke that two of the card makers that can be recommended for mac, Ix and 3dfx are both down the toilet. >>OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. > >Why? No Virge drivers, no SB drivers? My guess is that its too expensive to write the drivers and offer support, compared to what the companies see as the benefit. Part of it is while Apple now sells a few computers again, a good portion of those are the stinkin imac with little or no expansion. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 28 00:02:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <011601c0b735$bc7a8670$d3789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your >radio >had six transistors, cooler if it had FM and rich if your portable tape Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on your crystal set? ;) From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 00:09:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Original Prices paid (was Re: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.)) In-Reply-To: <20010327200107.ZUQK14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: <20010328060924.65848.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- RebelTerry wrote: > I just looked up my original receipt for my IBM PC, from Computerland, > dated April 2, 1982: > > IBM System Unit (48k): $2235.00 . . . > TOTAL: $2856.88 (such a bargain) Someone recently gave me two piles of Atari stuff - an 800, two floppies, an acoustic coupler, a parallel printer, the Atari peripheral thing, graphics tablet, tape drive, full boat of memory, software, books, the works. Included in the pile was the original receipt... for the computer, the drives, printer, etc, $2750 in 1981. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 28 00:13:20 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: <3AC145CA.1C62CF14@kcinter.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) I don't have a schematic; but I do have a few commercial cases that take a 2.5" IDE drive, connect to parallel port, and have a [presumably dead] battery. "Rodeo" brand. I have a driver disk. Don't have the original wall wart for charging the battery. Wanna trade drive for case? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 00:15:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:29 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010328061531.44097.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jason McBrien wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > Subject: Mac haul and print server questions > > ...AUI cables, including a DEC-branded one (perfect for my VAX8200) > > Darn, all I could fit in my basement are the system boards of an 8600. Now I > just need a case... I used to support COMBOARD users from my basement seven or eight years ago. It was easier to move down there than the 11/750. > > surprise in the lot was inside one of the LC IIIs - an Apple IIe card... > Actually I think it's one of those multipurpose breakout cables like the DOS > cards had. It provided Apple II Joysticks, disk drive, and I think serial > connections. Apparently. I think I have a lead on a cable (for more than the whole computer cost, but that's the way these things usually work). > > ...Are there any packages for the Mac that will let me share the printer... > There was an old LPR daemon for MacOS, check the hyperarchive, that's where > I found it a few years ago. LPR will help somewhat, I suppose. > The LaserJet 4ML will definatly work as it's postscript if I'm not mistaken. > Just about anything can print to it. It is; that's why I got it (and paid $1100 for it, brand-new). I wasn't going to get a laser printer until I could afford PostScript. I just checked tonight - 4700 pages so far. I just put _that_ one on an HP JetDirect print server I picked up at a tent sale for $10. Works great. The DeskWriter 660c is a LocalTalk-only device, thus the need for a Mac. > The big Windows->Mac network app used to be called COPStalk, I think it > became PC<->MacLan. It lets you mount appleshare volumes and print to mac > shared printers. > > Connectix makes an appy called DoubleTalk, which is very similar to > DAVE, lets you mount windows shares and share your hard drive and printer on > a windows SMB-based network. Freeware? Commercial? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 02:52:51 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: AAUI" (Mar 28, 1:33) References: Message-ID: <10103280952.ZM6171@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 1:33, Tony Duell wrote: >On Mar 28, 0:52, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > As for impedance, I was under the impression, judging from the current > > discussion on the topic of 10B5 wiring, that the actual work of making the AUI > > output ethernet-worthy lay in the transceiver. > > That's one part of it. But the AUI interface is part of the standard too > -- any device should be able to work with any transceiver. The AUI > interface consists of 3 differential ECL signals (AC coupled > essentially), which should be carried on twisted-pair transmission lines > (I think the characteristic impedance is somewhere around 100 Ohms, but > don't quote me on that). 78 ohms. The standard also specifies maximum length of 50m for the thick AUI cable, but "office grade" cables have higher losses and are typically only rated for a quarter of that. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 01:17:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: "Lawrence Walker" "Re: AAUI" (Mar 27, 20:13) References: <3AC0F45B.15850.5C56110@localhost> Message-ID: <10103280817.ZM6097@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 27, 20:13, Lawrence Walker wrote: > The Atari ST is an integrated machine. I guess you mean a TT. > Also the DEC Micros - Rainbow et al, with the LK201 KB. The MegaST uses an RJ12 for its separate keyboard. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 02:16:42 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Age-old ethernet equipment" (Mar 28, 2:47) References: <1293.487T1600T1674781optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10103280916.ZM6137@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 2:47, Iggy Drougge wrote: > This weekend, along with a batch of PS/2s, I received a 3Com 3c588 1988 > vintage MultiConnect Repeater. It's a 19" case with space for sixteen cards. > Mine features one card indicating power with a green LED as well as a DB-9 > female connector, then fourteen cards equipped with a BNC connector, an > activity led, one partition LED and a partition/reset switch each. > Whenever a card is connected to a 10b2 network, the partition light (which > otherwise emits a steady red light) begins to flicker. Upon flicking the > switch into reset mode, the partition light goes out. The network works fine > as long as there is no partitioning. I suppose its purpose is to not leak > traffic between several networks. Not quite. "Partitioning" is network jargon for disconnecting a port or segment. If there's no terminator, the transceiver will behave as though continually detecting collisions, and the repeater will automatically disconnect ("partition") that transceiver from the rest. The red LED lights up to tell you it has done so. It won't self-reset because if it really were connected to a faulty network segment, it might end up going in and out of operation. > What is the purpose of the DB-9 connector? I'm not familiar with this particular repeater, but I imagine it's a serial port for management and setup. Modern 3Com equipment has a serial port wired to the same (non)standard as PC 9-pin ports, but that one may not be wired in the normal way. It may also do auto-baud-rate detection, and it probably won't emit anything until it receives a couple of carriage returns. My old SynOptics 2813 hubs have a DA9 as well, and it's some odd connection for a modem (they also have a DB25 whichj is a normal serial port). I'd pull the card and see if anything on it gives you any clues. > Could this repeater slow a network down? Unlikely. You can get different cards for those repeaters -- 10baseT, 10base2, 10base5/AUI, and the 10baseT cards have 3 ports each. 3Com wouldn't have done that if it were going to significantly impact bandwidth. It's basically just a buffer; it doesn't process the data passing through like a switch does. Any intelligence in it is just for monitoring and setup (partitioning, etc). Another thing you could try is snooping on the network packets (if you have snoop, tcpdump, or similar) to see if the repeater emits any packets when it first powers up. It might be trying to BOOTP to get an IP address, and if you give it one, you can probably telnet to it and look at the setup. It probably needs a password, though. > What does partitioning actually entail? See above. Some more modern 3Com hubs also have the capability to split the unit into segments (eg, the SuperStack II PS 40 hubs and others can have 4 segments) but assigning ports to different segments isn't usually called partitioning. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 01:28:35 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "Re: List spammer ID'd" (Mar 27, 22:02) References: Message-ID: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 27, 22:02, Mike Ford wrote: > >I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your > >radio > >had six transistors, cooler if it had FM and rich if your portable tape > > Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on > your crystal set? ;) Don't be silly. My crystal set had a germanium diode, and I bet Allison's did too :-) I do remember my father buying a Philips Compact Cassette recorder when they were new and even cooler than my 7-transistor radio finished in red artificial leatherette. A cassette recorder of the same model still happily reads and writes tapes on some of my older home micros, despite being old when they were new (if you see what I mean). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Mar 28 03:44:51 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: ZX80/81 expansion Message-ID: <01Mar28.110620bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 01:34:58 +0100 (BST) >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Subject: Re: ZX-TEAM meeting/TS1000 least expandable??? > >> I thought that since the ZX80's memory couldn't be expanded, there were no >> expansion port either. > >I am sure I've seen Sinclair adverts for a 16K RAM pack for the ZX80. And >maybe a smaller RAM pack (3K? 4K?) as well. I always assumed the >connector was the same, because things like the ZX printer would work on >the ZX80 if you fitted the later ROM, I think. My ZX80 came with a ZX81 16K RAM pack and it works fine; ISTR physical differences aside the only real difference between the 80 and 81 was the ROM anyway, so by the time you'd bunged a 81 ROM in your 80 you ended up with an 81! The ROM even came with a 81 keyboard, overlay or real keyboard; can't remember which. The Jupiter Ace had a 4K RAM pack as well as a 16K one, and if anyone has a spare Ace (UK) or Ace 4000 (US) I'd be happy to take it off them :o) -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum, now W3C compliant!) 0/0 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 04:42:17 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <200103280413.UAA15052@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200103280413.UAA15052@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >The early Rage 128 PCI cards were pretty inexpensive too. I picked up my >Rage Orion for $135 new. Great card for the money -- not fabulous output >but certainly more than decent. I picked up one of the Voodoo5's just before 3dfx announced they were being bought out. A local CompUSA had marked them down to right at $200. Now that UPS has settled on my Blue/white G3 and I've received the replacement, it won't be too long before the Voodoo5 gets moved into it as the main video board with the Rage 128 left in it for compatibility purposes. It already has both Ultra2Wide and Ultra SCSI boards. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 04:47:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >I do remember my father buying a Philips Compact Cassette recorder when >they were new and even cooler than my 7-transistor radio finished in red >artificial leatherette. A cassette recorder of the same model still >happily reads and writes tapes on some of my older home micros, despite >being old when they were new (if you see what I mean). I got one of the GE portable cassette recorders in the early 70's and remember thinking how cool it was and I had a freind who's father had a reel-reel deck that he actually let us use all the time. I have had a couple of cars though that had tube AM radios in them! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Mar 28 06:16:54 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Sparcstation 10 References: <200103280314.TAA24642@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3AC1D636.93C6F02C@heathers.stdio.com> Zane, Thanks for the link. The unit seems to work OK headless. The guy even had the root password for it. I bought the whole shabang with an external tape/CDROM unit for $25. My son is going to look for a GX (its single width) card at school tomorrow. Brian. healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > What's the number on the GX board, and is it a Single or Double width board? > I'd have thought a GX board would work just fine with a 20D10 monitor I'm > surprised you're getting anything on a Mono monitor though. The following > web page should be of help: > > http://www.sunhelp.org/faq/FrameBuffer.html > > If it's a GX though, I'd recommend spending the money and grabbng a cheap > one off of eBay. > > BTW, nice monitor with the 20D10 you lucky ******, I've been trying to find > a decent monitor around here for my SparcStation 20/712. > > Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 05:38:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Unix timeline Message-ID: <01Mar28.064519est.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Here's something I found this morning that I thought some of you might be interested in. It's a graphing of the Unix timeline/family tree by Eric Levenez: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/levenez/unix/history.html Jeff From flo at rdel.co.uk Wed Mar 28 06:24:17 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Does anyone have DEC LQP02/LQP03 manuals? Message-ID: <3AC1D7F1.17E7BECC@uk.thalesgroup.com> If anyone has a programmer's manual for either of these daisywheel printers, I'd really love to know how to invoke the following functions: DECFIL (Right Justification) DECFPP (Positioning) DECPSPP (Print Specified Printwheel Position) DECPTS (Printwheel Table Select) DECSS (Set Space Size) DECUND (Programmable Underline Character) I don't need full descriptions, but I would like to know the sequence in the form: CSI ? 80 h or CSI Ps ; Ps " z I have a database that is supposed to cover every ANSI-compliant sequence for DEC terminals and printers, but it has some gaps! Cheers, Paul From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 28 06:32:53 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Six transistors? Hell most people on the list here had to go home after school to listen to info on the radio about the bombing of Japan. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:02 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: List spammer ID'd > > > >I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your > >radio > >had six transistors, cooler if it had FM and rich if your portable tape > > Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on > your crystal set? ;) > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 28 06:32:51 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought I've seen external cases for IDE HDD's off parallel ports before, I'll have to run back through my feeble memeory banks and figure out where I saw one. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX > collector) > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:33 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit > wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. > An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but > then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... > > I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... > > clint > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to > > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) > > > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will > > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as > > well. > > > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested > > please email me at > > elecdata@kcinter.net > > > > Thanks > > > > Bill Claussen > > Elecdata1 (ebay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 28 06:35:40 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I don't think Allison's quite that old but neither am I. I can remember JFK's funeral on TV (BW Motorola) and they made one of the best Chevy's when I was born (57) and I don't think Allison is much off from that. At least she won't tell us I'm sure. I had a crystal radio in my early teens that we built from a library book and then I moved to a Hallicrafters multiband reciever w/ long dipole antenna. I still have the radio but have to find the capacitor that blew and doesn't allow audio into the preamp. Good thing I have the schematic, now I just need time. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 1:29 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: List spammer ID'd > > > On Mar 27, 22:02, Mike Ford wrote: > > >I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really > cool of your > > >radio > > >had six transistors, cooler if it had FM and rich if your portable tape > > > > Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on > > your crystal set? ;) > > Don't be silly. My crystal set had a germanium diode, and I bet Allison's > did too :-) > > I do remember my father buying a Philips Compact Cassette recorder when > they were new and even cooler than my 7-transistor radio finished in red > artificial leatherette. A cassette recorder of the same model still > happily reads and writes tapes on some of my older home micros, despite > being old when they were new (if you see what I mean). > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Wed Mar 28 07:42:57 2001 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Kenneth L. Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: MGA card... In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010327150903.00aed6c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010328084018.00adc440@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> At 01:02 PM 03/27/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > > > Gene: > > > > I may still have a few in my parts drawer. I'll check tonight and let > you know. > > > > If I still have them, they're yours gratis. > > >Thanks Kenneth, it's appriciated! Do you know if there are any speed >issues with these cards? If so, it'll dictate what I can stuff them >into. :) Gene: I have three of them. As far as I know, they all work. If you give me a mailing address (offline), I'll send them next week. You want all three, or just two? As far as the speed issue goes, they run on the ISA bus at 8 MHz, so don't expect too much. KLM >g. Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Road Rochester, NY 14623 Phone:(716)-275-8247 Fax: (716)-275-5960 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 08:08:11 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Mar 27, 22:02, Mike Ford wrote: > > >I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your > > >radio had six transistors... > > > > Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on > > your crystal set? ;) > > Don't be silly. My crystal set had a germanium diode, and I bet Allison's > did too :-) So did mine, but my father built a real crystal set in the 1940's. Somewhere, I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have a nephew that will be old enough to build one, soon. I figured on the diode type, first, then, if he's still interested, show him how they did it when Grandpa was a kid. -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Mar 28 08:16:36 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: MacOS on CD-ROM? (was Re: Mac SE/30) In-Reply-To: <20010328002959.YPCB22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010328141636.5735.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> > This is reason I suggested starting building up a OS on external > drive via basilisk II emulator... I've never used Basilisk II, but I have used Mac emulators before with great success. > ...new OS 7.0.1 or 6.0.8 (both free) copied over to hard drive HFS image for > that basilisk II emulator. I am not looking forward to building a Sears Tower of floppies to install a new version of the MacOS on an old box. Is it possible to get older versions on an HFS CD-ROM image? I have all the necessary hardware/software to use one (Smart & Friendly 2X SCSI burner, Mac burning app, working Macs on the network). Is it possible to host the floppy images on, say, a Quadra, and perform an install over AppleShare? ISTR some sort of recent discussion involving something of the sort. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 09:11:34 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328101134.229f7c54@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:37 PM 3/26/01 +0100, you wrote: > >I have one of the disk drives (9885 IIRC), but no real information on it. >And I remember there being an HP custom 40 pin chip on one of the boards >that looked to be a CPU type thing. I think I have manual for the 9885 here somewhere. I don't remember which manual though. AIR The 9885 uses the HP 98032 option 085 parallel interface. I'm pretty sure I have one of thm here too but I've never tried to use it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 09:21:56 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: References: <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328102156.229f79b6@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:44 PM 3/26/01 +0100, you wrote: > >What do the connectors look like? How many pins, and so on? The monitor mounts on top of the 9845 by means of two struts. Each strut has a circuit board in it with about a dozen contacts that stick up and mate with connectors inside the monitor. I have no idea of the pin out on the connectors. BTW there are at least four different monitors for the 9845. One of them is color and the others are mono-chrome. One of the monochrome ones is text only and another is text and graphics. I'm not sure what different about the other monochrome one but I think it has higher resolution. I don't know if the CPUs that are used with the various monochrome monitors are different of not but the one for the color monitor is. > >> 9845. But you would think that this monitor was basically a standard TTL or >> analogue monitior of some sort and that someone might have the technical > >My guess (based on the date of the machine) is that it's most likely to >be either a TTL monitor with separate syncs or normal composite monitor. > >THe only HP video display of that period that I know about is the HP1350, >and that uses a special _vector_ monitor. I can't believe the 9845 is >similar, though. I believe the 9845 monitors are raster scanned but I'm not positive. HP did build some vector scanned monitors but I think they were mainly used as video plotters and I don't think any of them were used as the main display on any of their computers. > >Alas the 98x5 series have a lot of custom silicon in them, so figuring >out things like this can be a long and slow job.... Amen! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 09:25:48 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: References: < <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328102548.229fedde@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:43 PM 3/26/01 -0500, you wrote: >On 2001/03/26 at 10:59am -0800, RebelTerry wrote: >>I'm new to the group. Does anyone have any information on the old HP >>9845 desktop computers, specifically, if any working units still exist? > >I have one that works, except that I haven't looked at the tape drives >and the rollers have most likely melted. I'm pretty sure at least one >other list regular has one. Yeap, I have four of 9845Bs. I'm still looking for a 9845C. (hint, hint) You should be able to repair the tape drive roller the same way that you can fix the ones in the HP 85s. The HP 85, 9825, 9845 and all the other HP 98x5 calculators all use the same basic tape drive. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 09:32:35 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: References: <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328103235.3f7f2dbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:49 PM 3/26/01 -0500, you wrote: >On 2001/03/27 at 6:09am +1000, "Phil Guerney" wrote: >>I was told by the HP experts on this list when I first asked (a year or two >>ago) that there is no way known to hook up an external monitor in place of >>the original that plugged into those two special ports on the top of the >>9845. > >OK, I got curious and found the manuals. The short answer: you're screwed. > >>But you would think that this monitor was basically a standard TTL or >>analogue monitior of some sort and that someone might have the technical >>details to wire a replacement from the plugs? > >Major parts of the display logic (character generator etc.) are in the >monitor case, not the main box. > >>A bit hard to use without the >>monitor unfortunately and in 1980 this was my most DESIRED computer, so I >>would love to get this one going again. > >Apparently, you need only attach a "turn-on fixture", part 09845-66547, >to the left monitor leg, execute "PRINT ALL IS 0", and press the 'PRT >ALL' key: then you can use the machine with the printer alone... yeah, >good luck finding one. > Interesting. I wonder if you could do the same thing with an external monitor connected via HP-IB interface or if a monitor (or the turn-on fixture) is required for the system to "boot"? Joe >-- >Kevin Schoedel >schoedel@kw.igs.net > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Mar 28 08:45:22 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: MacOS on CD-ROM? (was Re: Mac SE/30) In-Reply-To: <20010328141636.5735.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Mar 28, 1 06:16:36 am" Message-ID: <200103281445.GAA11890@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Is it possible to host the floppy images on, say, a Quadra, and perform an > install over AppleShare? ISTR some sort of recent discussion involving > something of the sort. Definitely do-able for 7.5.3. I don't know about 7.0 or 7.1. System 6 is not that large and would probably not be worth the effort. In my case I have a real retail box of 7.1 so I just do it by hand :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 10:04:11 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: New HP In-Reply-To: <20010327082050.DLE14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c13121 25-a> References: <20010327091024.A788@sd160.local> <3.0.1.16.20010322220445.34f747dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328110411.3f7fc6c0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:21 AM 3/27/01 -0800, you wrote: >> > There I found and passed up a HP 9000 835 and a HP 9836A. BUT I did >> > bring home a HP 9000 520 (aka HP 9020). :-) > >Can a 9000-520 read 9845 disks/tapes? I don't know but the drive on the 520 is 5 1/4" and I think you said that your disks were 8" so that won't work. Besides my 520 seems to have problems. What kind of drive were your 8" disks recorded on? The HP 9885 and 9895 are very different. FWIW I have both. I'd guessing that the best way to read your disk would be an one of the NEWER 9000 series 200 or 300 machines such as a 9836. How many disk do you have that need to be transferred anyway? Joe > >I'll ask my ex-NASA buddies if they still have any 9000 stuff. (They >replaced our 9845 with those right after I left.) > >RT > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 09:58:50 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? (And an original IBM PC.) In-Reply-To: <20010327081910.GWMN3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c13121 25-a> References: <200103270643.WAA21296@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328105850.3f7f9336@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:20 AM 3/27/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >> P.S. If the BASIC listing uses keywords in optional ROMs, and the working >> machine doesn't have those ROMs, what happens when you try to print out the >> listing? > >Good question.... > I don't know for sure but it will probably print something like "XROM xx,yy". That's what some of the other HPs do. xx will be an id number assigned to that ROM and yy will be the number of the routine in the ROM. XROM of courxe means eXternal ROM. XROM xx,yy is how HP usually encodes the call in memory. If the ROM is present then the routine name will be printed (or executed in the run mode) otherwise it prints the XROM message (or halts with an error and displays the XROM numbers in run mode). I have plenty of 9845 ROMs, I can probably loan you what you need. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 09:47:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Jim Brick's (of Mick & Brick) website found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328104743.229fa420@mailhost.intellistar.net> Great find, Sellam! Thanks for posting it. Joe At 06:38 PM 3/26/01 -0800, you wrote: > >Here's the URL to Jim Brick's website. As many of you may well know, >Brick was co-author of _Bit-Slice Microprocessor Design_ with John Mick. > >http://www.brick.org/jim/ > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Mar 28 10:09:24 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <008201c0b6af$fe8169c0$7937fea9@Guerney> References: <20010326185757.OLZ3930.femail12.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> <001201c0b630$a6851980$7937fea9@Guerney> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328110924.3f7f681c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:20 PM 3/27/01 +1000, you wrote: >Great, a way out. > >To the list in general - if anyone ever comes across a HP Part 09845-66547, >pleeeeese get it for me! > >Thanks >Phil If you come across ANY parts that have the 09845-xxxxx part number grab them! The 09845 prefix means that the part is for a 9845. The same applies to most HP part numbers so grab any part that starts with 098xx-xxxxx since it will be for one of the 9800 series calculators. Joe From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Mar 28 10:22:22 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:35:40 -0600 Russ Blakeman wrote: > I had a crystal radio in my early teens that we built from a library book > and then I moved to a Hallicrafters multiband reciever w/ long dipole > antenna. I still have the radio but have to find the capacitor that blew and > doesn't allow audio into the preamp. Good thing I have the schematic, now I > just need time. Well, I can remember the days of 405-line TV here in England. We watched it on a valve set made by Pye (now part of Philips). By the time of the Moon landings we had dual-standard 405/625 and VHF/UHF sets. Oh, and BBC 2 was a new channel on UHF, 625-line only! I started in electronics with PNP germanium transistors, although a lot of valve radio and tape recording gear was still around. My idea of "high-tech" shortly after that was a 741 op-amp. I've just done a lecture where I showed people an acoustically-coupled modem (300 baud). I had to take an old phone along to show how it would fit, because no-one would imagine that now, with all phones being different sizes. "...and you try to tell the young people that, and they won't believe you!" -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rdd at smart.net Wed Mar 28 11:24:15 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section > of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use > as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have [...] My crystal radio used a germanium diode as well - it was one of those Radio Shack kits back in the 1970's.... still have it somewhere. Anyway, if you want to start from scratch at building one, crystals are probably plentiful at the various "new age" & crafts shops. Last time I checked, there were a few places still selling real "cats whiskers" (no - you don't catch the neighbor's cat to get one of these - that won't work). Did you try Antique Radio Supply? Several years ago, they had catswhiskers listed in their catalog. Alas, they don't appeart have a functional web site at this time. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From elvey at hal.com Wed Mar 28 11:50:27 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200103281750.f2SHoRn03486@civic.hal.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > So did mine, but my father built a real crystal set in the 1940's. Somewhere, > I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section > of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use > as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have > a nephew that will be old enough to build one, soon. I figured on the diode > type, first, then, if he's still interested, show him how they did it when > Grandpa was a kid. Hi I built several crystal sets. One I built using a razor blade and a piece of graphite from a pencil. It doesn't work with stainless blades. You need one of the older style "Blue Blades". Most rock shops have some galena. With some lead and sulfur, you can make your own galena. Dwight From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Mar 28 11:53:46 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> "from Ethan Dicks at Mar 28, 2001 06:08:11 am" Message-ID: <200103281753.LAA05018@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have > a nephew that will be old enough to build one, soon. I figured on the diode > type, first, then, if he's still interested, show him how they did it when > Grandpa was a kid. > > -ethan > www.midnightscience.com >From that site you will be able to find sources for everything you need, such as this interesting link: http://members.aol.com/scottswim/larry.htm -Lawrence LeMay From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Mar 28 12:02:00 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:22 AM Subject: Re: RE: List spammer ID'd > part of Philips). By the time of the Moon landings we had > dual-standard 405/625 and VHF/UHF sets. Oh, and BBC 2 was > a new channel on UHF, 625-line only! Does this explain why old episodes of Dr. Who look so wacky on NTSC? :) > I started in electronics with PNP germanium transistors, > although a lot of valve radio and tape recording gear was > still around. My idea of "high-tech" shortly after that > was a 741 op-amp. I'd like to try to build a computer only using 741's... > I've just done a lecture where I showed people an > acoustically-coupled modem (300 baud). I had to take an > old phone along to show how it would fit, because no-one > would imagine that now, with all phones being different > sizes. I've got one of those! I've been scouring salvation armys for old style phones for years. I miss those things, they weighed a ton, you knew when you were holding one in your hands.. > "...and you try to tell the young people that, and they > won't believe you!" Oh, aye... aye... > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Mar 28 12:19:35 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: i286-Mainboard References: Message-ID: <003401c0b7b3$a65b3c80$030101ac@boll.casema.net> There should be a dipswitch on the board. By means of this dip-switch you can configure the type and the amount of RAM on the board. But you would need the data on the dipswitch. Various 286-boards had different ways to use the dipswitches. I wonder what kind of RAM you put on it, like banks of 8*(256k*1), 8*(1m*1), 2*(256k*4) these all DIL-chips or ... SIPPs. Only very late 286-boards allowed for 30-pin SIPPs (almost identical to 30-pin SIMMs, but with leads rather than edge contacts) 12Mhz CPU-clock sounds right to me if the oscillator was 24Mhz. The turbo switch should be connected to a 2-pin header on the board in order to change the clock between 12Mhz or 6Mhz (the original IBM AT speed). A turbo-led connector should also be present this being connected to a fancy dual 7-segment display module that could be jumper-configured to any two settings like HI-LO of 12-06 or any creative display that you would fancy. Sometimes the turbo-speed could be software-switched with <+> to set to turbo or toggle the speed and <-> to set to low speed (the + and the - on the numerical keyboard that is) Just try some ..... Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Mario Premke To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: Re: i286-Mainboard > > > I hope you've tried the obvious, e.g. or during the POST sequence to > > enter BIOS setup? The earliest PC/AT's used a setup diskette to do the setup of > > the CMOS-based parameters. That may prove to be a problem. > > Yes, I get into the CMOS-Setup, but in there I cannot change the values > for memory and when I switch the power on the BIOS only tests the first > 640Kb of memory ... > > > To start out, I'd leave the "turbo" switch alone. However, there's usually a > > Turbo indicator LED that will tell you when you're in TURBO mode. If there's no > > TURBO button, there's probably a jumper connection available somewhere, and > > these connections are normally located in the lower left region of the board > > (assuming the power and keyboard connections are at the upper right, for > > reference. When you say "not available" do you mean you don't have one, or that > > it's not present/supported on the motherboard? > > I put the board into a modern AT-Box - there's no turbo button or > turbo-LED. > > > I'm curious about one thing ... Why is it that you believe it to be operable at > > 12 MHz? Is the CPU marked as such? Can you tell anything about the support > > chip set? I vaguely remember something about a Morse '286 around here > > The clock on the board shows 24Mhz, so I assume the the CPU works at > 12Mhz. I don't have the board right here and I cannot remember what chip > set is used. > > > someplace. It's possible that there's a manual, but more likely it's a board > > that was hying about. I may not have it anymore, but you never know ... > > There's a web-site mentioning the board, but the link to some manuals is a > dead link :-((( > > Cheers, > Mario > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 28 11:43:53 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: MacOS on CD-ROM? (was Re: Mac SE/30) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:45:22 -0800." <200103281445.GAA11890@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <200103281743.SAA25871@citadel.metropolis.local> > > Is it possible to host the floppy images on, say, a Quadra, and perform an > > install over AppleShare? ISTR some sort of recent discussion involving > > something of the sort. > > Definitely do-able for 7.5.3. I don't know about 7.0 or 7.1. System 6 is > not that large and would probably not be worth the effort. System 6.0.8 fits on 4 800k floppies - I know, I had to do it recently... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Mar 28 11:47:40 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:08:11 -0800." <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200103281747.SAA25939@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ethan Dicks said: > Somewhere, > I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section > of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use > as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have > a nephew that will be old enough to build one, soon. Try the Xtal Set Society's website: http://www.midnightscience.com/ for info. I'm in the middle of building one with a genuine reproduction cat's whisker. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Mar 28 12:31:32 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <200103281750.f2SHoRn03486@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Mar 28, 01 09:50:27 am Message-ID: <200103281831.NAA22137@wordstock.com> > Hi > I built several crystal sets. One I built using a razor > blade and a piece of graphite from a pencil. It doesn't > work with stainless blades. You need one of the older > style "Blue Blades". > Most rock shops have some galena. With some lead and > sulfur, you can make your own galena. > Dwight > A razor blade and pencil lead!?! Wow.. that is very cool! I am old enough (errrgh... I never thought I would say that!) to know about using germanium diodes (ala Crystal Radio Kits from that once wonderful store Radio Shack), but a razor blade and pencil lead... How do you put it together? Cheers, Bryan P.S. Are you good friends with MacGyver? ;-) From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 28 12:36:47 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Long time since I've heard vacuum tubes referred to as valves... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:22 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RE: List spammer ID'd > > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:35:40 -0600 Russ Blakeman > wrote: > > I had a crystal radio in my early teens that we built from a > library book > > and then I moved to a Hallicrafters multiband reciever w/ long dipole > > antenna. I still have the radio but have to find the capacitor > that blew and > > doesn't allow audio into the preamp. Good thing I have the > schematic, now I > > just need time. > > Well, I can remember the days of 405-line TV here in > England. We watched it on a valve set made by Pye (now > part of Philips). By the time of the Moon landings we had > dual-standard 405/625 and VHF/UHF sets. Oh, and BBC 2 was > a new channel on UHF, 625-line only! > > I started in electronics with PNP germanium transistors, > although a lot of valve radio and tape recording gear was > still around. My idea of "high-tech" shortly after that > was a 741 op-amp. > > I've just done a lecture where I showed people an > acoustically-coupled modem (300 baud). I had to take an > old phone along to show how it would fit, because no-one > would imagine that now, with all phones being different > sizes. > > "...and you try to tell the young people that, and they > won't believe you!" > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > From elvey at hal.com Wed Mar 28 12:52:28 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <200103281831.NAA22137@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <200103281852.f2SIqS803509@civic.hal.com> Bryan Pope wrote: > > Hi > > I built several crystal sets. One I built using a razor > > blade and a piece of graphite from a pencil. It doesn't > > work with stainless blades. You need one of the older > > style "Blue Blades". > > Most rock shops have some galena. With some lead and > > sulfur, you can make your own galena. > > Dwight > > > A razor blade and pencil lead!?! Wow.. that is very cool! I am old > enough (errrgh... I never thought I would say that!) to know about using > germanium diodes (ala Crystal Radio Kits from that once wonderful store Radio > Shack), but a razor blade and pencil lead... How do you put it together? Hi I put the razor blade down with a thumb tack on a piece of wood. I wrapped a few loops of 20 gauge copper wire around the lead. The pencil lead is the cats whisker. The blades do need to be the tempered steel, not the stainless. That area with the thin colored oxide is the best place to look for good rectification. It was graphite lead out of a standard #2 wood pencil. I never did determine the direction of the diode but for the purposes of a crystal detector, it doesn't make much difference. You did need to look for the best spot, just like a galena crystal. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:01:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: <3AC145CA.1C62CF14@kcinter.net> from "bill claussen" at Mar 27, 1 08:00:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1028 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/5edbecfb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:36:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: ZX80/81 expansion In-Reply-To: <01Mar28.110620bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from "Adrian Graham" at Mar 28, 1 10:44:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1408 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/24245679/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:12:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Schoedel" at Mar 27, 1 10:30:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3233 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/c2b6d6bd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:41:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Mar 28, 1 05:47:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 689 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/71e28ce8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:45:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Mar 28, 1 06:08:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 820 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/1fbe0f71/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:18:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 28, 1 07:28:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1137 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/774ee2bd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:47:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010328101134.229f7c54@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 28, 1 10:11:34 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 703 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/944c60ca/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:51:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010328102156.229f79b6@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 28, 1 10:21:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/b2e3c7b7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:52:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010328103235.3f7f2dbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 28, 1 10:32:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/5a4a3ece/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 12:56:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: HP 9845s? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010328110924.3f7f681c@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Mar 28, 1 11:09:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1074 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/7a92b17a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 13:06:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:30 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 28, 1 12:36:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 525 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/3b147c3e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 13:08:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at Mar 28, 1 01:02:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010328/17d9e675/attachment.ksh From family.entwisle at btinternet.com Wed Mar 28 13:24:57 2001 From: family.entwisle at btinternet.com (Duncan Entwisle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Repairing a TK50 tape drive? Message-ID: <002401c0b7bc$c6a04220$0200a8c0@at.home> Woah, just stepped over the threshold from reading to contributing - even if it's only a question :-) I've a TK50 drive that I'm trying to get to work with my Vax. After discovering that it didn't work (the tape never wound itself out into the drive) I took off the cover. There appears to be a piece of stiffish tape connected to the central spinny bit (okay, I know stiffish, and spinny bit aren't the most technical of words! :-), but the other end appears to have been chewed off. I presume this would have the task of extracting the tape from the cartridge. Is there anyplace I can get spares for this part (in the UK), or instructions for constructing something similar myself (I've got a few sacrifical tapes while I experiment). I'd be grateful for any ideas. In fact I'm intrigued how the things meant to work! Cheers, Duncan. From elvey at hal.com Wed Mar 28 13:27:49 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <200103281747.SAA25939@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <200103281927.f2SJRna03549@civic.hal.com> Hi One other thing that one can do to improve the sensitivity of a crystal set is to slightly forward bias the diode. I used a 100K pot across a 1.5 volt battery. I used a 10K isolation resistor and used a blocking capacitor when using a dynamic head phone. I also made traps for the strong stations ( I had two that were real close ) so that I could get some of the weaker ones. I also found an old scrap radio that used a TRF front stages. I used this to make a two stage tuner that improved the selectivity quite a bit. I wish I'd save some of this stuff but it always seemed like the next project needed the parts used in the first. My favorite was a short wave regenerative set made with a dual triode. I got the schematic from the "Boys Life" magazine ( Boy Scout magazine ). Dwight From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Mar 28 14:37:36 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <200103281852.f2SIqS803509@civic.hal.com> "from Dwight Elvey at Mar 28, 2001 10:52:28 am" Message-ID: <200103282037.OAA06514@caesar.cs.umn.edu> They are known as Foxhole Radios, and you can find more information by using a web search engine. -Lawrence LeMay > Bryan Pope wrote: > > > Hi > > > I built several crystal sets. One I built using a razor > > > blade and a piece of graphite from a pencil. It doesn't > > > work with stainless blades. You need one of the older > > > style "Blue Blades". > > > Most rock shops have some galena. With some lead and > > > sulfur, you can make your own galena. > > > Dwight > > > > > A razor blade and pencil lead!?! Wow.. that is very cool! I am old > > enough (errrgh... I never thought I would say that!) to know about using > > germanium diodes (ala Crystal Radio Kits from that once wonderful store Radio > > Shack), but a razor blade and pencil lead... How do you put it together? > > Hi > I put the razor blade down with a thumb tack on a piece > of wood. I wrapped a few loops of 20 gauge copper wire > around the lead. The pencil lead is the cats whisker. > The blades do need to be the tempered steel, > not the stainless. That area with the thin colored > oxide is the best place to look for good rectification. > It was graphite lead out of a standard #2 wood pencil. > I never did determine the direction of the diode but > for the purposes of a crystal detector, it doesn't make > much difference. You did need to look for the best spot, > just like a galena crystal. > Dwight > From peter at joules.org Wed Mar 28 14:43:09 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c0b7c7$b3984690$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> I remember my prep school trying to raise funds to buy a reel to reel video recorder (1969). My dad said that it was a ridiculous idea - "no one will ever want to record TV programmes" -- Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: 28 March 2001 19:19 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: List spammer ID'd I've even got a portable reel-to-reel _video_ recorder and camera that is still operational. And a portable U-matic recorder in need of a little TLC... From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Mar 28 14:51:37 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios In-Reply-To: <200103281852.f2SIqS803509@civic.hal.com> "from Dwight Elvey at Mar 28, 2001 10:52:28 am" Message-ID: <200103282051.OAA06593@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Since we're mentioning unusual crystal radios such as the Foxhole radios, I'll just mention that there is one other type that always interested me, though I never actually built one. These crystal radios include a transistor amplification section, which gets the power to drive the transistor from the signal strength of other local AM stations. -Lawrence LeMay From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 28 14:57:41 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I thought I've seen external cases for IDE HDD's off parallel ports before, > I'll have to run back through my feeble memeory banks and figure out where I > saw one. I would imagine that MicroSolutions might have marketed one as a part of their Backpack series. - don > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX > > collector) > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:33 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > > > > it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit > > wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. > > An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but > > then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... > > > > I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... > > > > clint > > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > > > > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > > > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to > > > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) > > > > > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will > > > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as > > > well. > > > > > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested > > > please email me at > > > elecdata@kcinter.net > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Bill Claussen > > > Elecdata1 (ebay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Mar 28 15:06:03 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) Message-ID: Such as http://members.aol.com/djadamson7/articles/foxhole.html -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence LeMay [mailto:lemay@cs.umn.edu] Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 2:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) They are known as Foxhole Radios, and you can find more information by using a web search engine. -Lawrence LeMay From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 28 15:17:13 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Jason McBrien wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Honniball" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:22 AM > Subject: Re: RE: List spammer ID'd > > > > part of Philips). By the time of the Moon landings we had > > dual-standard 405/625 and VHF/UHF sets. Oh, and BBC 2 was > > a new channel on UHF, 625-line only! > > Does this explain why old episodes of Dr. Who look so wacky on NTSC? :) > > > I started in electronics with PNP germanium transistors, > > although a lot of valve radio and tape recording gear was > > still around. My idea of "high-tech" shortly after that > > was a 741 op-amp. > > I'd like to try to build a computer only using 741's... > > > I've just done a lecture where I showed people an > > acoustically-coupled modem (300 baud). I had to take an > > old phone along to show how it would fit, because no-one > > would imagine that now, with all phones being different > > sizes. > > I've got one of those! I've been scouring salvation armys for old style > phones for years. I miss those things, they weighed a ton, you knew when you > were holding one in your hands.. There is a thrift store locally that has about a dozen of those, but in the touchtone version. - don > > "...and you try to tell the young people that, and they > > won't believe you!" > > Oh, aye... aye... > > > > -- > > John Honniball > > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > > University of the West of England > > > > > From donm at cts.com Wed Mar 28 15:23:29 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Long time since I've heard vacuum tubes referred to as valves... You have missed much of Tony Duell's email? - don > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Honniball > > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:22 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: RE: List spammer ID'd > > > > > > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:35:40 -0600 Russ Blakeman > > wrote: > > > I had a crystal radio in my early teens that we built from a > > library book > > > and then I moved to a Hallicrafters multiband reciever w/ long dipole > > > antenna. I still have the radio but have to find the capacitor > > that blew and > > > doesn't allow audio into the preamp. Good thing I have the > > schematic, now I > > > just need time. > > > > Well, I can remember the days of 405-line TV here in > > England. We watched it on a valve set made by Pye (now > > part of Philips). By the time of the Moon landings we had > > dual-standard 405/625 and VHF/UHF sets. Oh, and BBC 2 was > > a new channel on UHF, 625-line only! > > > > I started in electronics with PNP germanium transistors, > > although a lot of valve radio and tape recording gear was > > still around. My idea of "high-tech" shortly after that > > was a 741 op-amp. > > > > I've just done a lecture where I showed people an > > acoustically-coupled modem (300 baud). I had to take an > > old phone along to show how it would fit, because no-one > > would imagine that now, with all phones being different > > sizes. > > > > "...and you try to tell the young people that, and they > > won't believe you!" > > > > -- > > John Honniball > > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > > University of the West of England > > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 28 16:00:34 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I beleive that might be where I saw it. I have a Backpack cdrom but it may be the typical parallel-scsi type, never bothered to find out. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 2:58 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: ide harddrive > > > > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > I thought I've seen external cases for IDE HDD's off parallel > ports before, > > I'll have to run back through my feeble memeory banks and > figure out where I > > saw one. > > I would imagine that MicroSolutions might have marketed one as a part of > their Backpack series. > - don > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX > > > collector) > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:33 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > > > > > > > > it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit > > > wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. > > > An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but > > > then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... > > > > > > I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... > > > > > > clint > > > > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > > > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the > parallel port on a > > > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > > > > > > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > > > > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I > will offer to > > > > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) > > > > > > > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) > these also will > > > > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested > > > > please email me at > > > > elecdata@kcinter.net > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Bill Claussen > > > > Elecdata1 (ebay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Mar 28 16:03:47 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you happen across that I wouldn't be upset if a copy of it attached to an email came my way... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:02 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > Somewhere I have an data sheet for a chip to convert a parallel port into > an ISA slot. No, I don't mean a chip for adding a printer port to the ISA > bus (like the 82C11 does), I mean a chip that connects to a parallel port > (either 'original' or one of the enhanced bidirectional ports), and to > some DRAM, and which allows you to connect anything that you'd normally > connect to ISA on the other side of it. It allows you to read/write any > port or memory location from the parallel port side, it allows the ISA > device to do DMA into the memory hung off the chip (which can then be > read/written from the parellel port), and so on. > > I think it was made by SMC, but don't quote me on that. > > It looked like a fun device to work with, but I don't know where on earth > you'd find one. > > If anyone is interested, I will try and find the data sheet and post the > number of the device. > > -tony > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 16:54:06 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: John Honniball "Re: RE: List spammer ID'd" (Mar 28, 17:22) References: Message-ID: <10103282354.ZM7159@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 17:22, John Honniball wrote: > Well, I can remember the days of 405-line TV here in > England. We watched it on a valve set made by Pye (now > part of Philips). By the time of the Moon landings we had > dual-standard 405/625 and VHF/UHF sets. Oh, and BBC 2 was > a new channel on UHF, 625-line only! I had a collection of Ferguson 405-line sets. They all seemed to be remarkably similar inside, and by the time I was about 14 I got to be reasonably good at fixing them. My first "video monitor" was a cast-off 405-line 14" 'portable'. I stripped out the tuner (it was a turret tuner and almost every segment was broken) and some of the RF valves. It had a series heater chain so I added a few high-wattage resistors to make up for that, and tweaked the circuit a bit to handle the video from my first Exidy Sorcerer. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 16:41:57 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: "Peter Joules" "RE: List spammer ID'd" (Mar 28, 21:43) References: <000201c0b7c7$b3984690$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <10103282341.ZM7153@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 21:43, Peter Joules wrote: > I remember my prep school trying to raise funds to buy a reel to reel video > recorder (1969). My dad said that it was a ridiculous idea - "no one will > ever want to record TV programmes" The school I worked in around 1981 was still using B/W reel-to-reel video. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Mar 28 16:39:31 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: List spammer ID'd" (Mar 28, 19:18) References: Message-ID: <10103282339.ZM7149@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 19:18, Tony Duell wrote: > > I do remember my father buying a Philips Compact Cassette recorder when > > they were new and even cooler than my 7-transistor radio finished in red > > Cassette? Heck, I've got a portable reel-to-reel audio recorder here. > I've even got a portable reel-to-reel _video_ recorder and camera that is > still operational. And a portable U-matic recorder in need of a little TLC... Well, he already had a Ferrograph reel-to-reel, to replace the old Grundig reel-to-reel he had before :-) He was into gadgets. I had a little portable reel-to-reel, it took 3" reels. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed Mar 28 16:56:33 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Amdahl, Hitachi drives, controllers available (Calgary, AB) References: <2734A4B26607D411BEF100508B027B524E2D6C@SBEXCH1> <003401c0b320$df120780$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <005301c0b7da$55f8dbe0$0200a8c0@marvin> The City of Calgary Surplus disposal place has the following "big iron" accessories for sale: 1 x Amdahl 6100-100 DASD controller - Condition: Good, No repairs needed 11 x Amdahl 6380-AK4 DASD drive - Condition: Good, No repairs needed 2 x Hitachi 7690 DASD controller - Condition: Good, No repairs needed 4 x Hitachi 76930M0032 DASD drive - Condition: Good, No repairs needed No idea as to weight or value, but I thought they might be of interest to someone. Their website is http://www.gov.calgary.ab.ca/surplus/. My past experience has been that the City will accept any reasonable offer, and quite a few unreasonable ones - especially on equipment they're unfamiliar with. I once scooped a Video Toaster equipped Amiga 2000 for $75 Cdn. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 17:09:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Mar 28, 1 04:03:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 467 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/56b0b296/attachment.ksh From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 28 17:22:29 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd References: Message-ID: <001d01c0b7de$09b5b560$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:02 PM Subject: RE: List spammer ID'd > Six transistors? Hell most people on the list here had to go home after > school to listen to info on the radio about the bombing of Japan. Oi! I'm not that old. LOL. Make it Vietnam and TV and I'd agree. My first transistor radio was 6 transistor. No FM, (Mostly because we didn't have FM radio in this country until the 80's, long after it was a feature of most portable radios. The Federal Govt. decided in the 60's that we would never need FM broadcasting(!) and stuck a tv channel (4) in the middle of the FM band. Consequently the local Channel 4 has it's audio on 100.4 Mhz and can be heard on a standard FM rx. This is useful for soap opera afficionados like my wife who will listen to Days of Our Dreary Lives on the car radio when she is running around in the afternoon. cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 17:31:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <10103282354.ZM7159@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 28, 1 10:54:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/0f958c81/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 28 16:58:13 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I thought I've seen external cases for IDE HDD's off parallel ports before, >I'll have to run back through my feeble memeory banks and figure out where I >saw one. I just bought a rig from Apricorn, via a IBM promotion for $69. Its a cheesy external box, adapters for the various style IBM hard drive carriers, and a PCMCIA IDE controller with a cable that plugs into either a IDE notebook drive or one of the carrier adapters. Includes special software to transfer contents of the internal drive to the new external (with license to do it 10 times). Normally $129, use the link through IBM and its $69. http://www.apricorn.com/ezgig_upgrade.html From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Mar 28 17:38:48 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd References: Message-ID: <005401c0b7e0$3cdf5340$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 4:06 AM Subject: RE: RE: List spammer ID'd > Long time since I've heard vacuum tubes referred to as valves... Stilll common useage in Oz and NZ, and also in England I believe. A tube is something you put in a tyre to most people here. (Except for a Picture Tube - I guess Picture Valve doesn't have quite the same ring to it) If a person points to their tv and says "I think the tubes gone." This is a standard response to a "Whats the problem" question from a TV Tech by virtually any customer with an old TV. Sometimes they were even right. Some of the early (K9 and C9 chassis) Philips TV's have a problem where in old age, the tube fractures around the neck under the yoke, letting air in gradually. This eventually leads to a lightning display inside the neck when there is enough air to let the HV electrodes flash over, and often the neck simple falls off the rest of the tube. The semi competent techs that used to make a fortune running around fixing TV's in the pre solid state era were often known as 'valve jockeys'. Cheers Geoff in Oz From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 28 16:55:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1355.487T1650T14355079optimus@canit.se> Jason McBrien skrev: >Before MacOS 9.x password protection there was a nasty access control >application called At Ease. It went REALLY low level to keep you from >screwing around with things, if a disk is protected with at ease, the only >way to get at it is booting from another disk and updating the hard disk >drivers. Foolproof is a similar, thrid party application, and there is also >a program (Disklock perhaps?) which locks the drive WAY down, you can't even >mount it if you boot from another disk. If the disk is protected with >Foolproof or, more likely, At Ease, you'll need to reinstall the OS if you >don't have the password. If it is protected with an application like >Disklock (i.e. it doesn't show up on the desktop when booting from another >disk) your only recourse is to completely reformat and reinstall the OS. They run At Ease at the university library here. It really is the Apple predecessor to Microsoft's "Bob", and it really makes you feel like an uncouth infant instead of a grown-up computer user. No wonder the Macs are in a permanent state of disuse. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Gillar man porr..v?ld kvinno f?rnedring...och en massa onda handlingar s? ?r det filmen f?r dig....sj?lv vet jag inte..har sett 1-3......samtidigt som jag avskyr dem s? ?r det ?nd? s? n?tt magiskt bakom dem... Eric B om Urotsukid?ji From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 28 18:17:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3701.488T700T774297optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >> Yoiu're so PC-centric. Since there really weren't any PCs with 3,5" >> >> floppy >> >> >I take that as an insult... >> >> Then you're on the right way. =) >Well, put it this way : Most of my computers are not PC-clones. But they use PC drives? >> But what if you don't like MFM encoding? Since the Amiga drive IIRC works >> at a lower level, it hasn't got any preferred encoding, so that it may >> still read MFM if necessary, without being constrained to that particular >> encoding. What you are suggesting is adopting the lowest common denominator >> and sacrificing flexibility. >OK, perhaps I should have said that since many machines use MFM encoding >(and many others use FM single-density encoding), it's useful in other >machines can at least handle that format. The Amiga can (and thus an >Amiga can exchange disks with the rest of the world). A Mac can't. And that, of course, is bad. Just being different isn't enough. OTOH, sometimes compatibility may be a curse. If users can use a common format, they might not stick the better alternative. Look at the lack of success for all things modern on the PC clones. If you can just launch a DOS session, there is never a great enough need to develop that silly little LhA unarchiver, MS Word converter, music piracy client or what have you. >It's good to build a better machine than others, but not, IMHO, at the >expense of _any_ compatability. Isuppose compatibility sometimes must be sacrificed. Nowadays, it seems mostly to be a matter of policy, though. Things which have been supported in older versions are dropped without there being anything in particular preventing its continuous implementation. >In the days of 8" controllers, various manufacturers designed double >density schemes that were basically incompatible with each other >(standard MFM, DEC RX02, etc). But just about everybody supported >standard 'IBM 3740' single-density disks as well, so that data could be >exchanged between systems. I find it useful that the same 8" disk can be >read/written on a PDP11 (RX01 or RX02 in single-density mode), a PDP8/e >(ditto), a PERQ2 (standard 8272-based controller), and a CASU CP/M >machine (Micromation Doubler controller, built from TTL and small PROMs). That's nice. Just like in the CP/M days. Just as long as it doesn't haunt computer users for generations to come. >> >No. The IWM (Integrated Woz Machine) disk controller in the Mac/Mac >> >512/Mac+ can't read anything but Apple GCR disks. It's impossible >> >> Now, that's a pity. First the Lisa drive, then the Mac. I thought that a >> drive >That's basically what I don't like. Not that the Apple had its own format >that was, in some respects, superior to the PC one. But that it couldn't >_also_ read 'standard' disks that could be produced on just about every >other make of machine out there. Agreed. >I nthe case of the Apple ][, there is a justification for the >simple/cheap disk controller that could only do GCR recording (even >though I didn't much care for it). In the case of the Mac, there's much >less justification. When it comes to Mac, you just tend not to get particularly worked up about silly connectors and formats. OTOH, when it comes to Big Blue, I wish they would get off their high horse and face the stark reality of not being the ones setting standards in the PC world any more. IBM have made an AUI connector of their own, too, as well as proprietary SCSI connectors. While on the topic of SCSI connectors, didn't Macrovision use a DB23 as a SCSI connector on one of their Evolution Zorro SCSI boards for the Amiga? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ %blow bash: fg: %blow: no such job From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 28 17:56:46 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Amdahl, Hitachi drives, controllers available (Calgary, AB) References: <2734A4B26607D411BEF100508B027B524E2D6C@SBEXCH1> <003401c0b320$df120780$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <005301c0b7da$55f8dbe0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <002d01c0b7e2$bf660500$0a01a8c0@station1> > The City of Calgary Surplus disposal place has the following "big > iron" accessories for sale: > > 1 x Amdahl 6100-100 DASD controller > 11 x Amdahl 6380-AK4 DASD drive > 2 x Hitachi 7690 DASD controller > 4 x Hitachi 76930M0032 DASD drive Please forgive my stupidity, but what big iron systems would these work with? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 17:52:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I just bought a rig from Apricorn, via a IBM promotion for $69. Its a >cheesy external box, adapters for the various style IBM hard drive >carriers, and a PCMCIA IDE controller with a cable that plugs into either a >IDE notebook drive or one of the carrier adapters. Includes special >software to transfer contents of the internal drive to the new external >(with license to do it 10 times). Normally $129, use the link through IBM >and its $69. That software licensing limit of 10 transfers between drives is what sounds cheesy to me. If I'm going to buy hardware from someone, it better not make itself unusable after 10 times! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Mar 28 17:55:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <3701.488T700T774297optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 29, 1 01:17:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/5068014a/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 28 18:54:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <968.488T1100T1145029optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>OTOH there are NO cheap PCI video cards for the mac, or cheap sound cards. > At least with the current crop of PCI video cards, Mac users >aren't having to pay double what everyone else is. Before they >ceased production, the Mac version of the Voodoo5 was priced nearly >the same as the PC version and it did include Mac specific stuff such >as the digital video output. It's a heck of a nice card too....to >bad it died so suddenly. As of now, Voodoo (and Virge) cards are the only choice for PCI-equipped Amiga owners as well. I really don?t like those tight-arsed hardware manufacturers who can't share programming documentation. I've got the same problem with my new 100 Mb MCA NIC, which has got no drivers, partly because Olicom won't share information. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Iggy tipsar: Vill du l?sa en PDF-fil, men saknar l?sare, skicka den till pdf2txt@adobe.com, du f?r den tillbaka som ren ASCII till din epostadress. From jss at ou.edu Wed Mar 28 18:17:26 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 References: <1355.487T1650T14355079optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <004001c0b7e5$a291c5b0$0a01a8c0@station1> > They run At Ease at the university library here. It really is the > Apple predecessor to Microsoft's "Bob", and it really makes you feel > like an uncouth infant instead of a grown-up computer user. No wonder > the Macs are in a permanent state of disuse. When I was in Junior high, the computer lab was filled with Mac Classics. Each Mac had FoolProof installed on it, which I believe is the same sort of idiotware. I was pretty proud of myself for figuring out that I could use ResEdit to change FoolProof's file type string from INIT to TINI so FoolProof wouldn't load. Alas, it did not work out as a demonstration to the school of the software's uselessness; I told the wrong person and he started deleting things he shouldn't have... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Mar 28 18:30:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <968.488T1100T1145029optimus@canit.se> References: <968.488T1100T1145029optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >As of now, Voodoo (and Virge) cards are the only choice for PCI-equipped Amiga >owners as well. I really don?t like those tight-arsed hardware manufacturers >who can't share programming documentation. I've got the same problem with my >new 100 Mb MCA NIC, which has got no drivers, partly because Olicom won't >share information. I've only been out of the Amiga scene about a year and a half, about the time 'Amazing Amiga' went under but I don't remember hearing anything about PCI Amiga's. Are these the new hardware spec meant to run the new OS? Personally, I always liked the Voodoo cards, with this one being my third one. ATI has been around a long time and has made solid products, but the Voodoo's were a better performing card. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:31:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd Message-ID: <005801c0b7e9$075e56e0$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >>I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your >>radio >>had six transistors, cooler if it had FM and rich if your portable tape > >Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on >your crystal set? ;) I still have a few feet of very thin phosphorBronze wire from that! Nice springy material. The first one used a commercial diode but otherwise traditional. Later on I tried a long list of other rectifing materials: Galena, Carborundum Super-Blue blade and pencil CupricOxide selenium (from a rectifier) Silver oxides and sulphides Rusty nails I'd read about these in various books as a kid. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:32:57 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd Message-ID: <005901c0b7e9$07c64070$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Pete Turnbull >Don't be silly. My crystal set had a germanium diode, and I bet Allison's >did too :-) V1 did. I was an avid experimenter. By 1963 I was using transistors in a regen. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:34:21 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd Message-ID: <005a01c0b7e9$082688e0$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Russ Blakeman >Six transistors? Hell most people on the list here had to go home after >school to listen to info on the radio about the bombing of Japan. That was by time I was in middle school. before that it was a Philco AA5 (Tube set). Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:38:35 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd Message-ID: <005b01c0b7e9$0889de90$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Russ Blakeman >I don't think Allison's quite that old but neither am I. I can remember >JFK's funeral on TV (BW Motorola) and they made one of the best Chevy's when >I was born (57) and I don't think Allison is much off from that. At least >she won't tell us I'm sure. Thankyou but... I watched JFK too, Sylvania 21". Heard it on AM broadcast regen I'd brought to school. I was pre-'57 Chevy though my parents had a 57 nomad wagon. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:42:03 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) Message-ID: <00c301c0b7eb$2840d930$50799a8d@ajp166> From: R. D. Davis >My crystal radio used a germanium diode as well - it was one of those >Radio Shack kits back in the 1970's.... still have it somewhere. I have no pretense of my age. By the 1970s I was working as a radio tech (land mobile and marine) with a commercial license. >time I checked, there were a few places still selling real "cats >whiskers" (no - you don't catch the neighbor's cat to get one of these Cats whisker is a thin peice of springy phospor bronze wire. Try a peice of had drawn #30 copper with the end filed or cut to a point. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:46:43 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) Message-ID: <00c501c0b7eb$290efea0$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >I read somewhere that a piece of coke (the fuel, not the drug, OK :-)) >was used by POWs in the second world war as a detector. Using much the >same cats whisker arangement as with the galena crystal. Might be worth a >try. I will work but you want to find a peice that has really been fired and has a bit of rainbow color to it. IT's the contaminating oxides and all that makes it work though germainium is better. >I would recomend getting the set working with a germanium diode first. >Then, when you know the coil, tuning capacitor, headphones, aerial, >earth, etc are OK, try the home-made detector. Good way to go. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 18:44:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) Message-ID: <00c401c0b7eb$28a8c2c0$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Bryan Pope >Shack), but a razor blade and pencil lead... How do you put it together? Substitue the blade and pencil lead for the diode in a standard ckt. The key is the blade be used some (corrosion) and you probe it for the spot that renders a crude rectifieng junction. Allison From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 28 19:05:29 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Amdahl, Hitachi drives, controllers available (Calgary, AB) Message-ID: IBM mainframes, Hitachi mainframes, and Amdahl mainframes.. They sound like they're 3380-equivalent, at least the Amdahls do. I wish they were closer, or I'd buy 'em, could use more storage. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bill at cs.scranton.edu Wed Mar 28 19:32:08 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <200103281831.NAA22137@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Bryan Pope wrote: > > Hi > > I built several crystal sets. One I built using a razor > > blade and a piece of graphite from a pencil. It doesn't > > work with stainless blades. You need one of the older > > style "Blue Blades". > > Most rock shops have some galena. With some lead and > > sulfur, you can make your own galena. > > Dwight > > > A razor blade and pencil lead!?! Wow.. that is very cool! I am old > enough (errrgh... I never thought I would say that!) to know about using > germanium diodes (ala Crystal Radio Kits from that once wonderful store Radio > Shack), but a razor blade and pencil lead... How do you put it together? > He forgot to mention the safety pin. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 28 19:36:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>I just bought a rig from Apricorn, via a IBM promotion for $69. Its a >>cheesy external box, adapters for the various style IBM hard drive >>carriers, and a PCMCIA IDE controller with a cable that plugs into either a >>IDE notebook drive or one of the carrier adapters. Includes special >>software to transfer contents of the internal drive to the new external >>(with license to do it 10 times). Normally $129, use the link through IBM >>and its $69. > > That software licensing limit of 10 transfers between drives >is what sounds cheesy to me. If I'm going to buy hardware from >someone, it better not make itself unusable after 10 times! The hardware works forever, but they sell this as a end user package, not a pro package for a repair shop. The software makes installing a new drive basically brainless by copying all the old software etc. over to the new drive. I bought the unit to install a new hard drive in my wife's 770, and actually use it myself as a laptop drive tester which doesn't use the licensed software at all. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Mar 28 19:43:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <005801c0b7e9$075e56e0$50799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >>Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on >>your crystal set? ;) > > >I still have a few feet of very thin phosphorBronze wire from that! Nice >springy material. One of the hands on museum type places I been to had a HUGE selenium crystal and a catwhisker you could move around. It was great, the mixing of rocks and radio. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 19:50:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <002901c0b7f2$985d64c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> EPP provides a bidirectional data port, a data strobe, an address strobe, and a write strobe. It responds to a nWAIT/RDY signal, an interrupt, and three user input (to the PC) signals that you are at liberty to use however you like. The strobes are generated in hardware and rquire no software beyond the write to the appropriate address. The address strobe steers data to hardware that responds to address strobe, and the data strobe does likewise with what you define to be data, so you certainly have sufficient resources to effect an ide interface quite straightforwardly. Moreover, if you write a word to the data port, it steers the data in successive writes automatically with no software overhead. Performance, however, is another issue. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 10:32 PM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit > wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. > An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but > then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... > > I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... > > clint > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to > > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) > > > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will > > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as > > well. > > > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested > > please email me at > > elecdata@kcinter.net > > > > Thanks > > > > Bill Claussen > > Elecdata1 (ebay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 19:51:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <002f01c0b7f2$cc7badc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've seen, and, in fact, own, several parallel port to SCSI interfaces, but never a parallel port to IDE type. It's quite conceivable, though. The software would be a pain, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 5:32 AM Subject: RE: ide harddrive > I thought I've seen external cases for IDE HDD's off parallel ports before, > I'll have to run back through my feeble memory banks and figure out where I > saw one. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX > > collector) > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:33 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > > > > it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit > > wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. > > An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but > > then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... > > > > I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... > > > > clint > > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > > > > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed > > > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to > > > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) > > > > > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will > > > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as > > > well. > > > > > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested > > > please email me at > > > elecdata@kcinter.net > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Bill Claussen > > > Elecdata1 (ebay) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 19:53:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <003501c0b7f3$06a841c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd be VERY interested in seeing that schematic, Tony! I've no doubt that it can be done, but I wonder how fast it will be. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > > Somewhere I have an data sheet for a chip to convert a parallel port into > an ISA slot. No, I don't mean a chip for adding a printer port to the ISA > bus (like the 82C11 does), I mean a chip that connects to a parallel port > (either 'original' or one of the enhanced bidirectional ports), and to > some DRAM, and which allows you to connect anything that you'd normally > connect to ISA on the other side of it. It allows you to read/write any > port or memory location from the parallel port side, it allows the ISA > device to do DMA into the memory hung off the chip (which can then be > read/written from the parellel port), and so on. > > I think it was made by SMC, but don't quote me on that. > > It looked like a fun device to work with, but I don't know where on earth > you'd find one. > > If anyone is interested, I will try and find the data sheet and post the > number of the device. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 20:06:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <004d01c0b7f4$df093640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I do believe that what one wants to do is look at http://www.virtualipgroup.com/ds1284P.PDF for starters. That has a megacell that looks like it might do what is called for. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 4:09 PM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > If you happen across that I wouldn't be upset if a copy of it attached to an > > email came my way... > > I've found enough of the data sheet (long story) to be able to say that > the device in question (printer port -> ISA slot, in that direction) is > the SMC34C60 (it was made by SMC, I remembered it correctly). > > I don't know if you can still get a data sheet (it was about 6 years ago > I was looking at this), but it might be worth trying to hunt it down > > -tony > > From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Mar 28 20:04:06 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:09:34 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200103290204.f2T246s38077@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > I've found enough of the data sheet (long story) to be able to say that > the device in question (printer port -> ISA slot, in that direction) is > the SMC34C60 (it was made by SMC, I remembered it correctly). > > I don't know if you can still get a data sheet (it was about 6 years ago > I was looking at this), but it might be worth trying to hunt it down Don't know how much this will help you, Tony, but keying "34C60" into www.google.com brings up a link to a PDF datasheet as the first item: http://www.smsc.com/main/datasheets/34c60.pdf -Frank McConnell From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Mar 28 20:47:23 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:31 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: <002f01c0b7f2$cc7badc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > I've seen, and, in fact, own, several parallel port to SCSI interfaces, but > never a parallel port to IDE type. I have five of them here. (probably some more buried deeper) These are Rodeo. One that takes 3.5" IDE, and four that take 2.5" IDE and have batteries. I've also used ones from Pacific Rim. > It's quite conceivable, though. Thank you. I have a policy of raising the price every time somebody expresses doubt of existence of stuff that I'm selling. After all, that proves that it must be RARE! > The software would be a pain, however. Not too bad. There are easy ways and hard ways to do it. It's largely an issue of at what level it operates. (replacement Int13, v block mode device driver, etc.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 28 15:52:26 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. In-Reply-To: References: <3701.488T700T774297optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 29, 1 01:17:14 am Message-ID: <20010329025153.TRLI22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi all, Doesn't make sense to buy single TTL oscillator while I have lots of other osc chips that has compatiable frequencies that I can divide down. A computer needs 12.5 MHz TTL oscillator to clock that '040 at 25MHz. Right now that motherboard uses 10MHz OSC nearby for a bogus 'LC040 20MHz and have a real '040-25 coming in to swap out that fpu-less chip and bump up that MHz. That motherboard is *exact* same board used in 20 and 25, 40 and 50MHz Macs including one low end Mac server. (!!) What is proper way to build up a reliable divide down TTL or cmos circuit output just with 5V and ground and a oscillator? Say, I divide 25 by 2 or 50 by 4 to get 12.5MHz. I also have doc about details about replacing missing clock output to run that ethernet Sonic chipset. That 10Mhz output is used there also but there's the pads and holes, just move few parts around and add few more parts which I have everything except this CPU frequency that I have to make. I tell you, that clever motorala engineers must found a way to make 040 series so efficient, even 16 MHz if there ever one existed blew away 030 even at 40MHz. Right now doing my business on a LC III w/ stuffit uncoding those coded files. Slow as frozen sick snail even LC III is stuffed w/ nice 540MB hd and spacious 20MB ram. That really impresses me which I did worked with 486 and 386 machines before and see performance differences is not as hot as like now. Cheers, Wizard From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 20:43:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive Message-ID: <00ee01c0b7fb$fb0d48c0$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >I've seen, and, in fact, own, several parallel port to SCSI interfaces, but >never a parallel port to IDE type. It's quite conceivable, though. The >software would be a pain, however. I have one for Parallel to 3.5" IDE and another for parallel to 2.5" ide. They work quite well and are much faster than zip or jazz drives. Also with ECP or EPP the transfers are 8bit bidirectional. The logic to do that is fairly simple as you simply stack up bytes or half bytes until you have a 16bit word to write and to read you reverse that to move successive chunks. Allison >From: "Russ Blakeman" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 5:32 AM >Subject: RE: ide harddrive > > >> I thought I've seen external cases for IDE HDD's off parallel ports before, >> I'll have to run back through my feeble memory banks and figure out where I >> saw one. >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Clint Wolff (VAX >> > collector) >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:33 PM >> > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> > Subject: Re: ide harddrive >> > >> > >> > >> > it'd be a fairly complicated schematic... The IDE interface is 16 bit >> > wide data, and a standard parallel port only has four bits of input. >> > An enhanced parallel port (EPP) can turn the data bits around, but >> > then you don't have any lines for RD*/WR*/A0-A2/CS1Fx*CS3Fx*, etc... >> > >> > I certainly wouldn't want to do it, though I'm sure it can be done... >> > >> > clint >> > >> > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, bill claussen wrote: >> > >> > > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a >> > > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? >> > > >> > > I also have 20 (2.5 in) toshiba 4.8 gig drives (new and in sealed >> > > antistatic). these are 2 mm interface ata4 44pin that I will offer to >> > > sell to the group before listing them at ebay. ($75 ea + shipping) >> > > >> > > I also have AMD K6-2 233 AFR Socket 7 processors (new) these also will >> > > be offered to the group for ($20 ea), before I place them on ebay as >> > > well. >> > > >> > > I am going to put them up in two weeks, so if any one is interested >> > > please email me at >> > > elecdata@kcinter.net >> > > >> > > Thanks >> > > >> > > Bill Claussen >> > > Elecdata1 (ebay) >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Mar 28 20:46:41 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive Message-ID: <00ef01c0b7fb$fb7b4cd0$50799a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >I'd be VERY interested in seeing that schematic, Tony! I've no doubt that it >can be done, but I wonder how fast it will be. The commercial ones are at least several mb/sec using drives designed for DMA33. Only took a minute or less to transfer a set of 28 .CAB files (w95). The device driver runs as a SCSI device under W9x or NT4. Allison >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Duell" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:01 AM >Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > >> > >> > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on a >> > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? >> >> Somewhere I have an data sheet for a chip to convert a parallel port into >> an ISA slot. No, I don't mean a chip for adding a printer port to the ISA >> bus (like the 82C11 does), I mean a chip that connects to a parallel port >> (either 'original' or one of the enhanced bidirectional ports), and to >> some DRAM, and which allows you to connect anything that you'd normally >> connect to ISA on the other side of it. It allows you to read/write any >> port or memory location from the parallel port side, it allows the ISA >> device to do DMA into the memory hung off the chip (which can then be >> read/written from the parellel port), and so on. >> >> I think it was made by SMC, but don't quote me on that. >> >> It looked like a fun device to work with, but I don't know where on earth >> you'd find one. >> >> If anyone is interested, I will try and find the data sheet and post the >> number of the device. >> >> -tony >> >> > From ss at allegro.com Wed Mar 28 21:07:05 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ZX80/81 expansion In-Reply-To: References: <01Mar28.110620bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3AC23659.9137.1FC286A0@localhost> Re: > > The Jupiter Ace had a 4K RAM pack as well as a 16K one, and if anyone has a > > spare Ace (UK) or Ace 4000 (US) I'd be happy to take it off them :o) > > The Ace memory is a little odd. The basic machine has 3K of RAM, all in > 2114s. 1K is for Forth words, 1K is video memory (unlike the ZX80/ZX81, > this is not taken from main memory), 1K is the character generator (so > all characters are, in fact, user defineable). > It's possible to wire up an adapter that lets you use a ZX81 (or was that TS 1000?) RAM pack on a Jupiter ACE ... I've seen one such working! Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 28 16:21:07 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: MacOS on CD-ROM? (was Re: Mac SE/30) In-Reply-To: <20010328141636.5735.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010328002959.YPCB22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010329032034.SCGK24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:16:36 -0800 (PST) > From: Ethan Dicks > Subject: MacOS on CD-ROM? (was Re: Mac SE/30) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > This is reason I suggested starting building up a OS on external > > drive via basilisk II emulator... > > I've never used Basilisk II, but I have used Mac emulators before with > great success. The biggest difference this Basilisk II is freeware where other emulators you talked about ( saw them ) are payware. > Is it possible to host the floppy images on, say, a Quadra, and perform an > install over AppleShare? ISTR some sort of recent discussion involving > something of the sort. That where basilisk II and file, expander utilities comes in for *that* especially if a Mac has no hd or erased or locked shut. Everything you can do is done on peecee and get mac going by any methods like appleshare, appletalk, ethernetalk, build up new bootable scsi drive attached to your peecee scsi controller, even it supports ide/scsi cdrom, can read/write 1.44MB Mac format disks. The expanders is written for peecee too! Oh yes, good pc software burners supports HFS format like Nero, which means you can build an CD even make it bootable. All is documented on 'net. This reason I used this was to transfer the files I found off the 'net via my peecee attached. Then cut out the DSL connection manager, release all IPs, hook the TP wire both mac and pc together, fire up that basilisk II. Then play away with that on transfer/install/other uses. In short, Anything you can do with a working Mac is no different on Basilisk *except* 400K/800K, get that mac going first. Oh yes, you can plop down a translator printer driver (freeware) to drive any pc printers. Oh yes, you can play with it with different Mac "models" like IIfx, LCIII, C610, 660 AV etc all by the GUI configurator util and even grant any different configurations on ports, 'net stuff, etc even adjust ram size. Getting ROM off mac w/ unbootable HD is no problem, just download a bootable image and rawrite it to a spare 1.44MB disk, load it with getrom program via HVF explorer. Then use this disk to boot up a "dead" mac and use HVF E. again to extract that rom to pc to get basilisk II going. Cheers, Wizard > Thanks, > > -ethan From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 22:30:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: <00ef01c0b7fb$fb7b4cd0$50799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000d01c0b808$ec1dd0c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> IF you have a DLL to support EPP under W9x, you can certainly do that. I've not yet found one that comes with enough pre-sale doc to verify that it's up to that kind of performance. There are a few PCI parallel port boards that claim to have the speed, however. I tabled my S-100 bus probe a year or more ago for the simple reason that the ports on the motherboards I was considering were not fast enough. The PCI ones may breathe new life into the project. The datasheet for the SMC34C60 turned up immediately on a search via GOOGLE.COM. There's an IP product that pops up too, perhaps worth a look. Be careful not to mix up the EPP and ECP functions on the SMC part! The two are TOTALLY different! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:46 PM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > From: Richard Erlacher > > >I'd be VERY interested in seeing that schematic, Tony! I've no doubt > that it can be done, but I wonder how fast it will be. > > The commercial ones are at least several mb/sec using drives designed for > DMA33. Only took a minute or less to transfer a set of 28 .CAB files > (w95). > > The device driver runs as a SCSI device under W9x or NT4. > Undoubtedly that's a driver for the device under Windows, and not a generic port driver. Too bad ... > > Allison > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tony Duell" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:01 AM > >Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > >> > > >> > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on > a > >> > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > >> > >> Somewhere I have an data sheet for a chip to convert a parallel port > into > >> an ISA slot. No, I don't mean a chip for adding a printer port to the > ISA > >> bus (like the 82C11 does), I mean a chip that connects to a parallel > port > >> (either 'original' or one of the enhanced bidirectional ports), and to > >> some DRAM, and which allows you to connect anything that you'd > normally > >> connect to ISA on the other side of it. It allows you to read/write > any > >> port or memory location from the parallel port side, it allows the ISA > >> device to do DMA into the memory hung off the chip (which can then be > >> read/written from the parellel port), and so on. > >> > >> I think it was made by SMC, but don't quote me on that. > >> > >> It looked like a fun device to work with, but I don't know where on > earth > >> you'd find one. > >> > >> If anyone is interested, I will try and find the data sheet and post > the > >> number of the device. > >> > >> -tony > >> > >> > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 22:36:28 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <001b01c0b809$d2b0ea40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I had no idea that int13 talks directly to the EPP port! My understanding was that int13 uses a disk driver based on the assumption that the ROM code talks to the device interface. I've no indication in any of the doc's or marketing literature, for example, that I could boot my system from a SCSI drive attached to the printer port via my Adaptec Printer-Port<=>SCSI adapter. I'd have thought they'd make the claim if anyone would. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:47 PM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > I've seen, and, in fact, own, several parallel port to SCSI interfaces, but > > never a parallel port to IDE type. > > I have five of them here. (probably some more buried deeper) These are > Rodeo. One that takes 3.5" IDE, and four that take 2.5" IDE and have > batteries. I've also used ones from Pacific Rim. > > > > It's quite conceivable, though. > > Thank you. > I have a policy of raising the price every time somebody expresses doubt > of existence of stuff that I'm selling. After all, that proves that it > must be RARE! > > > > The software would be a pain, however. > > Not too bad. There are easy ways and hard ways to do it. It's largely an > issue of at what level it operates. (replacement Int13, v block mode > device driver, etc.) > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Mar 28 22:50:47 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <00c501c0b7eb$290efea0$50799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200103290449.f2T4nbO15657@grover.winsite.com> But if you REALLY want to do it right, you wind your own coil on a shellacked oatmeal box.....or, a shellacked salt box. All of mine used a germanium diode and a prewound coil, so there. I'll shut up now. Paul > From: Tony Duell > >I read somewhere that a piece of coke (the fuel, not the drug, OK > >:-)) was used by POWs in the second world war as a detector. Using > >much the same cats whisker arangement as with the galena crystal. > >Might be worth > a > >try. > > > I will work but you want to find a peice that has really been fired > and has a bit of rainbow color to it. IT's the contaminating oxides > and all that makes it work though germainium is better. > > >I would recomend getting the set working with a germanium diode > >first. Then, when you know the coil, tuning capacitor, headphones, > >aerial, earth, etc are OK, try the home-made detector. > > > Good way to go. > > Allison > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From edick at idcomm.com Wed Mar 28 23:01:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) References: <200103290449.f2T4nbO15657@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0b80d$4e698e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> When I built mine, we (the CubScout pack) used toilet paper roll cores which we varnished and then applied our magnet wire. We even went rock hunting to find galena crystals to use. I don't remember any sort of diode ... there could've been one, though ... that was nearly 50 years ago, after all. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Braun" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) > But if you REALLY want to do it right, you wind your own coil on a > shellacked oatmeal box.....or, a shellacked salt box. > > All of mine used a germanium diode and a prewound coil, so there. > I'll shut up now. > > Paul > > > From: Tony Duell > > >I read somewhere that a piece of coke (the fuel, not the drug, OK > > >:-)) was used by POWs in the second world war as a detector. Using > > >much the same cats whisker arangement as with the galena crystal. > > >Might be worth > > a > > >try. > > > > > > I will work but you want to find a peice that has really been fired > > and has a bit of rainbow color to it. IT's the contaminating oxides > > and all that makes it work though germainium is better. > > > > >I would recomend getting the set working with a germanium diode > > >first. Then, when you know the coil, tuning capacitor, headphones, > > >aerial, earth, etc are OK, try the home-made detector. > > > > > > Good way to go. > > > > Allison > > > > > > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > > "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." > > From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 28 23:20:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1154.488T1900T3805549optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >Well, put it this way : Most of my computers are not PC-clones. >> >> But they use PC drives? >No, IBM PCs just happen to use the same drives as the rest of the world >-- i.e. most of the other computers I have here. Many of said computers >were designed long before the IBM PC. >[..] Oops, I forgot I was using such drives, too. Is that what Shugart defines? >> silly connectors and formats. OTOH, when it comes to Big Blue, I wish they >> would get off their high horse and face the stark reality of not being the >> ones setting standards in the PC world any more. IBM have made an AUI >> connector of their own, too, as well as proprietary SCSI connectors. >Which is the IBM proprietary SCSI connector? If you are thinking of the >DD50 (used on the RS6000?) then it's actually a _standard_ connector >specified in the SCSI standards. It was used by many other manufacturers >(Sun, ICL, to name but 2). What is a DD50? I'm thinking of the connector used on PS/2s, which looks like a small Centronics connector. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 28 23:39:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment In-Reply-To: <10103280916.ZM6137@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3546.488T1200T3995201optimus@canit.se> Pete Turnbull skrev: >On Mar 28, 2:47, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> This weekend, along with a batch of PS/2s, I received a 3Com 3c588 1988 >> vintage MultiConnect Repeater. It's a 19" case with space for sixteen >cards. >> Mine features one card indicating power with a green LED as well as a >DB-9 >> female connector, then fourteen cards equipped with a BNC connector, an >> activity led, one partition LED and a partition/reset switch each. >> Whenever a card is connected to a 10b2 network, the partition light >(which >> otherwise emits a steady red light) begins to flicker. Upon flicking the >> switch into reset mode, the partition light goes out. The network works >fine >> as long as there is no partitioning. I suppose its purpose is to not leak >> traffic between several networks. >Not quite. "Partitioning" is network jargon for disconnecting a port or >segment. If there's no terminator, the transceiver will behave as though >continually detecting collisions, and the repeater will automatically >disconnect ("partition") that transceiver from the rest. The red LED >lights up to tell you it has done so. It won't self-reset because if it >really were connected to a faulty network segment, it might end up going in >and out of operation. I see. I really must create a lot of small networks now, so that I may saturate all those ports. >> What is the purpose of the DB-9 connector? >I'm not familiar with this particular repeater, but I imagine it's a serial >port for management and setup. Modern 3Com equipment has a serial port >wired to the same (non)standard as PC 9-pin ports, but that one may not be >wired in the normal way. It may also do auto-baud-rate detection, and it >probably won't emit anything until it receives a couple of carriage >returns. My old SynOptics 2813 hubs have a DA9 as well, and it's some odd >connection for a modem (they also have a DB25 whichj is a normal serial >port). What management would be involved with a repeater? All other hubs and repeaters I've used have been entirely automatic. >I'd pull the card and see if anything on it gives you any clues. >> Could this repeater slow a network down? >Unlikely. You can get different cards for those repeaters -- 10baseT, >10base2, 10base5/AUI, and the 10baseT cards have 3 ports each. 3Com >wouldn't have done that if it were going to significantly impact bandwidth. > It's basically just a buffer; it doesn't process the data passing through >like a switch does. Any intelligence in it is just for monitoring and >setup (partitioning, etc). I'd think so too, but I heard on Usenet that old repeaters (the kind which actually call themselves repeaters =) could slow down modern networks. Don't ask me how, though. >Another thing you could try is snooping on the network packets (if you have >snoop, tcpdump, or similar) to see if the repeater emits any packets when >it first powers up. It might be trying to BOOTP to get an IP address, and >if you give it one, you can probably telnet to it and look at the setup. > It probably needs a password, though. My, that's interesting. I'll let the OpenBSD machine have a go, then. >> What does partitioning actually entail? >See above. Some more modern 3Com hubs also have the capability to split >the unit into segments (eg, the SuperStack II PS 40 hubs and others can >have 4 segments) but assigning ports to different segments isn't usually >called partitioning. IOW it's just a glorified OFF switch. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From optimus at canit.se Wed Mar 28 23:26:25 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1051.488T1250T3864487optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>As of now, Voodoo (and Virge) cards are the only choice for PCI-equipped >>Amiga owners as well. I really don?t like those tight-arsed hardware >>manufacturers who can't share programming documentation. I've got the same >>problem with my new 100 Mb MCA NIC, which has got no drivers, partly because >>Olicom won't share information. > I've only been out of the Amiga scene about a year and a >half, about the time 'Amazing Amiga' went under but I don't remember >hearing anything about PCI Amiga's. Are these the new hardware spec >meant to run the new OS? Personally, I always liked the Voodoo >cards, with this one being my third one. ATI has been around a long >time and has made solid products, but the Voodoo's were a better >performing card. There are busboards for A1200s and A4000s with PCI now. Drivers exist for Virge, Voodoo, NE2000 (PCI) with Soundblaster and TV card drivers in the works. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Was ist ein Erwachsener? Ein Kind, das vom Alter aufgepumpt ist. --- Simone de Beauvoir From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Wed Mar 28 23:50:17 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems Message-ID: <15495.985845017@www43.gmx.net> Peter Turnbull wrote: >Another way to see what's happening, is to use 'snoop' if you have it >on one of the Suns (tcpdump for Linux/BSD/etc is similar). Just typing in snoop at the prompt ends up with snoop: Command not found. In which subdirectory might this program be (if it's on the system at all), or how can we search for it? If it isn't, where can one possibly get it? The printer manual has surfaced, but it only contains the information that the Ethernet card was an add-on and had its own Installation and Configuration Guide with it - which must be buried even deeper than the manual itself if we were given it at all I guess the remaining problem is really the IP address of the printer, as the data transfer between the computers and the printer must be all right by now: Whenever a ping or something else occurs on the network, the orange DATA LED on the printer's back side blinks a few times (what should indicate it is receiving the data). -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Mar 29 02:18:51 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: SCSI SCA connectors Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361147@exch002.softwright.co.uk> OT, sorry - but are there any SCSI fans on the list who know anything about the SCSI SCA standard? If so can you dro me an email off-list if you know the answer to the following... I've got a couple of drives with SCA connectors and adapters plugged into them to bring them out to the more normal 68-pin connectors. There's a bunch of inline resistors on each adaptor which I'd like to know whether they are terminators or just something that's needed when connecting an SCA device to a normal SCSI bus. Both drives work together happily despite the resistors (have been doing for the last 2 years anyway) which surprises me if those are terminators, but nothing works if I try to chain anything else onto the same bus which makes me wonder... ps. one of the drives is 6 years old, but not ten - so take notice of 60% of this email or something :-) cheers Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 02:15:07 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: List spammer ID'd" (Mar 29, 0:31) References: Message-ID: <10103290915.ZM7535@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 0:31, Tony Duell wrote: > Looking at Poole&Molloy (Radio and Television Servicing -- annual volumes > that cover the major TVs and radios for each year), it's amazing how many > sets from nominally different manufactures contain the same chassis... I know. Sometimes there only seem to be about two or three "current" models (plus variations for tube size). > The result was that my parents ordered the failed servoid out of the > house, returned the rented TV, and I've been landed with repair jobs here > ever since. LOL! Serves you right! > > 405-line 14" 'portable'. > Converting a 405 line set to a (presumably 625 line) monitor is not the > most trivial job, I wouldn't have thought. Don't tell me it was a live > chassis set as well.... No, thankfully it wasn't. I don't recall having to do much to change the frequencies, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 02:52:16 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: Age-old ethernet equipment" (Mar 29, 6:39) References: <3546.488T1200T3995201optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10103290952.ZM7561@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 6:39, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I see. I really must create a lot of small networks now, so that I may > saturate all those ports. Well, they would really all be the same network -- they'd be all one collision domain (any packet or collision appearing on one port would be seen on all the others. That's what a repeater does). > What management would be involved with a repeater? All other hubs and > repeaters I've used have been entirely automatic. Partitioning segments deliberately, eg to lock out a faulty host -- maybe one that's jabbering, or responding to things it shouldn't -- or an intruder. Monitoring traffic levels (counting packets, octets, collisions, etc). Monitoring traffic types (unicast packets, multicast packets, broadcast packets). Keeping a list of MAC addresses seen. Since all this is usually done by talking to the repeater (or whatever) over the network, the repeater itself has to have an IP address, and so there are ways to set that up (setting it by hand, or telling it to use bootp/dhcp) or upgrade the firmware, or set passwords for read/write operations. > I'd think so too, but I heard on Usenet that old repeaters (the kind which > actually call themselves repeaters =) could slow down modern networks. Don't > ask me how, though. I don't see why, if you're talking about repeaters. Old switches might well be slow, since they work on a store-and-forward basis. A repeater ("hub") works on the bit level; a switch works at the packet level and looks at the type and addressing of each packet before passing it on. Newer switches use ASICs to do this in hardware at wire speed, older ones use more conventional processing (or a combination). > >> What does partitioning actually entail? > > >See above. Some more modern 3Com hubs also have the capability to split > >the unit into segments (eg, the SuperStack II PS 40 hubs and others can > >have 4 segments) but assigning ports to different segments isn't usually > >called partitioning. > > IOW it's just a glorified OFF switch. =) Partitioning, is, yes. Segmenting isn't, it's just a way of making one big(ish) hub do the job of a few smaller ones. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 02:55:48 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: AAUI" (Mar 29, 6:20) References: <1154.488T1900T3805549optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10103290955.ZM7575@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 6:20, Iggy Drougge wrote: > What is a DD50? I'm thinking of the connector used on PS/2s, which looks like > a small Centronics connector. DD50 is a large D-connector, twice as big as a DB25 :-) "A small Centronics" connector could be lots of things, but if you mean a half-pitch connector with clips, that's a half-density 50-pin D-connector (even though it doesn't look quite like a miniaturised D-connector), and is the device recommended in the SCSI-2 standard. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 02:37:32 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: "Paul Braun" "Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd)" (Mar 28, 22:50) References: <200103290449.f2T4nbO15657@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <10103290937.ZM7553@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 28, 22:50, Paul Braun wrote: > But if you REALLY want to do it right, you wind your own coil on a > shellacked oatmeal box.....or, a shellacked salt box. > > All of mine used a germanium diode and a prewound coil, so there. > I'll shut up now. :-) Everyone (at least, everyone in the UK) knows you wind a hundred turns[1] or so of 24swg DCC (double cotton covered) copper wire (actually, I used enamelled copper) on a toilet roll centre, to make a coil about 2" long. I recall one maths teacher using a toilet roll centre for some demonstration in a maths class (nothing to do with radio or electronics). In his distinctive accent, which was all the more noticable to Scottish schoolchildren, he announced that this was a "wiyah fohmah". Despite heckling, he subsequently refused to acknowledge that it might have had any connection with more mundane functions. [1] to be honest, I can't remember the standard number of turns. It might have been less than a hundred, and I'm too lazy to work it out right now. And it doesn't have to be 24swg, you just use whatever you can scrounge. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Mar 29 03:05:56 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: zx80/81 stuff Message-ID: <01Mar29.102733bst.46098@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:36:07 +0100 (BST) > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: ZX80/81 expansion > > > My ZX80 came with a ZX81 16K RAM pack and it works fine; > ISTR physical > > differences aside the only real difference between the 80 > and 81 was the ROM > > I thought the ZX81 hardware provided some kind of interrupt > to the Z80 to > allow for 'simultaneous' processing and display, and that you > couldn't > get this on the ZX80 simply by dropping in the new ROM. There were > various circuits (a couple of TTL chips IIRC) to add this > feature to the > ZX80, though. Yah, the ZX80 couldn't think and talk at the same time so it blanked the screen while it was processing! In the ZX81 this was known as FAST mode, with the slower SLOW mode being able to do both. However, this still meant that in SLOW mode the machine was 4 times slower than in FAST! Probably sometime tonight I'll upload the Your Computer reviews of the ZX81, Jupiter Ace and a couple of others for your reading pleasure, unless you've already got them round somewhere. Oh, hang on, you're text only aren't you? > Keyboard overlay I think. The keyboards were somewhat different > physically, weren't they -- the ZX80 used contacts on the > main PCB, the > ZX81 had a separate membrane keyboard linked up with tapewire. . Yep. Looking at the pic on the museum site the keyboard is part of the main PCB, whereas on the ZX81 it was separate. I still think its funny to look at the design for the ZX80 and compare it with the heath-robinson nature of the Issue 1 Spectrum :o) > I have an Ace, but it's not 'spare' if you see what I mean. Bugger :) > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:21:07 +0000 > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > Subject: Re: MacOS on CD-ROM? (was Re: Mac SE/30) > > The biggest difference this Basilisk II is freeware where other > emulators you talked about ( saw them ) are payware. I think I need to get my paws on that then...... -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 05:36:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ZX80/81 expansion In-Reply-To: <3AC23659.9137.1FC286A0@localhost> References: <01Mar28.110620bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> <3AC23659.9137.1FC286A0@localhost> Message-ID: >It's possible to wire up an adapter that lets you use a ZX81 (or was >that TS 1000?) RAM pack on a Jupiter ACE ... I've seen one such working! The TS 1000 and ZX-81 16k RAM Packs are identical except in their markings. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 29 06:01:50 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: 10 new boxes 5.25" DSDD floppies on ebay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1225444089 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/b8e0eef0/attachment.html From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 08:10:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <20010328061531.44097.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <707.488T300T9104209optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> The big Windows->Mac network app used to be called COPStalk, I think it >> became PC<->MacLan. It lets you mount appleshare volumes and print to mac >> shared printers. >> >> Connectix makes an appy called DoubleTalk, which is very similar to >> DAVE, lets you mount windows shares and share your hard drive and printer >> on a windows SMB-based network. >Freeware? Commercial? That's interesting, there was an Appletalk hardware/software solution for the Amiga which was called... Doubletalk. It existed both as an external box for A500s and a Zorro card for the big boxes. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/44MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Thu Mar 29 07:19:06 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <20010328061531.44097.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010329081906.00f7974c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 10:15 PM 3/27/01 -0800, you wrote: >> The LaserJet 4ML will definatly work as it's postscript if I'm not mistaken. >> Just about anything can print to it. > >It is; that's why I got it (and paid $1100 for it, brand-new). I wasn't >going to get a laser printer until I could afford PostScript. I just checked >tonight - 4700 pages so far. I just put _that_ one on an HP JetDirect >print server I picked up at a tent sale for $10. Works great. >-ethan Me, I could not possibly afford a laser printer with the right amount of memory, so I set up a ghostscript filter on my hp9000/735 and I can print in color postscript on my lowly deskjet 695. Just had to do some shell programming. In RH Linux, it is even easier because gs filtering is a menu option during printer setup. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Mar 29 07:44:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive Message-ID: <380735523.985873447019.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> Yes, you can do that and the perfomance is very good on the K2-350 box here at work. I use teh 3.5" loaded one to install windows and apps as it's faster than 4x CDrom and since some systems here dont have cdrom at all it really beats floppies or sucking it down the 10mbs eitherpipe. I've never tried to boot one directly but I have used one as C: via floppy boot for W95. Allison ------Original Message------ From: "Richard Erlacher" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: March 29, 2001 4:30:02 AM GMT Subject: Re: ide harddrive IF you have a DLL to support EPP under W9x, you can certainly do that. I've not yet found one that comes with enough pre-sale doc to verify that it's up to that kind of performance. There are a few PCI parallel port boards that claim to have the speed, however. I tabled my S-100 bus probe a year or more ago for the simple reason that the ports on the motherboards I was considering were not fast enough. The PCI ones may breathe new life into the project. The datasheet for the SMC34C60 turned up immediately on a search via GOOGLE.COM. There's an IP product that pops up too, perhaps worth a look. Be careful not to mix up the EPP and ECP functions on the SMC part! The two are TOTALLY different! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:46 PM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > From: Richard Erlacher > > >I'd be VERY interested in seeing that schematic, Tony! I've no doubt > that it can be done, but I wonder how fast it will be. > > The commercial ones are at least several mb/sec using drives designed for > DMA33. Only took a minute or less to transfer a set of 28 .CAB files > (w95). > > The device driver runs as a SCSI device under W9x or NT4. > Undoubtedly that's a driver for the device under Windows, and not a generic port driver. Too bad ... > > Allison > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tony Duell" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 11:01 AM > >Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > >> > > >> > Evening folks, I am looking for a circuit using the parallel port on > a > >> > pc to Ide interface, does anyone have a schematic for one? > >> > >> Somewhere I have an data sheet for a chip to convert a parallel port > into > >> an ISA slot. No, I don't mean a chip for adding a printer port to the > ISA > >> bus (like the 82C11 does), I mean a chip that connects to a parallel > port > >> (either 'original' or one of the enhanced bidirectional ports), and to > >> some DRAM, and which allows you to connect anything that you'd > normally > >> connect to ISA on the other side of it. It allows you to read/write > any > >> port or memory location from the parallel port side, it allows the ISA > >> device to do DMA into the memory hung off the chip (which can then be > >> read/written from the parellel port), and so on. > >> > >> I think it was made by SMC, but don't quote me on that. > >> > >> It looked like a fun device to work with, but I don't know where on > earth > >> you'd find one. > >> > >> If anyone is interested, I will try and find the data sheet and post > the > >> number of the device. > >> > >> -tony > >> > >> > > > > From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 08:40:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment In-Reply-To: <10103290952.ZM7561@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <2837.488T200T9403413optimus@canit.se> Pete Turnbull skrev: >On Mar 29, 6:39, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> I see. I really must create a lot of small networks now, so that I may >> saturate all those ports. >Well, they would really all be the same network -- they'd be all one >collision domain (any packet or collision appearing on one port would be >seen on all the others. That's what a repeater does). True, but at least they will look like that and there won't be a dozen unused ports. >> What management would be involved with a repeater? All other hubs and >> repeaters I've used have been entirely automatic. >Partitioning segments deliberately, eg to lock out a faulty host -- maybe >one that's jabbering, or responding to things it shouldn't -- or an >intruder. Monitoring traffic levels (counting packets, octets, collisions, >etc). Monitoring traffic types (unicast packets, multicast packets, >broadcast packets). Keeping a list of MAC addresses seen. Since all this >is usually done by talking to the repeater (or whatever) over the network, >the repeater itself has to have an IP address, and so there are ways to set >that up (setting it by hand, or telling it to use bootp/dhcp) or upgrade >the firmware, or set passwords for read/write operations. That monitoring seems interesting. >> I'd think so too, but I heard on Usenet that old repeaters (the kind >which >> actually call themselves repeaters =) could slow down modern networks. >Don't >> ask me how, though. >I don't see why, if you're talking about repeaters. Old switches might >well be slow, since they work on a store-and-forward basis. A repeater >("hub") works on the bit level; a switch works at the packet level and >looks at the type and addressing of each packet before passing it on. > Newer switches use ASICs to do this in hardware at wire speed, older ones >use more conventional processing (or a combination). I would think so too. Any other opinions? >> >> What does partitioning actually entail? >> >> >See above. Some more modern 3Com hubs also have the capability to split >> >the unit into segments (eg, the SuperStack II PS 40 hubs and others can >> >have 4 segments) but assigning ports to different segments isn't usually >> >called partitioning. >> >> IOW it's just a glorified OFF switch. =) >Partitioning, is, yes. Segmenting isn't, it's just a way of making one >big(ish) hub do the job of a few smaller ones. I was rather hoping it had that ability. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > I'll maybe do a giraffe/milk/fridge game for this year's CSSCGC. > That'd be good. Yes. Advanced Giraffe Refrigeration Simulator. All the thrills and 'spills' are here as you manoeuvre the milk and lure the lactophobic animal around a kitchen packed with hazards! ** Actual Spectrum screenshots! ** "It's TOTALLY AMAZING!!!" - David Darling Equin0x, comp.sys.sinclar From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 08:46:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <10103290955.ZM7575@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1086.488T1300T9464677optimus@canit.se> Pete Turnbull skrev: >On Mar 29, 6:20, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> What is a DD50? I'm thinking of the connector used on PS/2s, which looks >like >> a small Centronics connector. >DD50 is a large D-connector, twice as big as a DB25 :-) Ah, as seen on SUNs, then. >"A small Centronics" connector could be lots of things, but if you mean a >half-pitch connector with clips, that's a half-density 50-pin D-connector >(even though it doesn't look quite like a miniaturised D-connector), and is >the device recommended in the SCSI-2 standard. According to the PS/2 FAQ, it is the same connector used on the RS6000, a mini-centronics 60. OTOH, I've encountered yet another mini centronics connector on my fancy new SCSI card in the model 95. Then there is the card-edge connector used for internal wiring. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Thu Mar 29 09:24:37 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> Hi Thanks for the information below. I was able to acquire the MMJ connector and was able to get the VaxServer properly interfaced with the vt340...sort of! When I boot them up they start up as you described below without any problem...but the keyboard does not seem to be able to make any input. The keyboard seems to be in working order, since I can switch to setup mode, using the "Setup" F3 key. But no other key will do anything. When the VAX complete the booting process I have the following screen: KA41-B V1.4 F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. ? C 0080 0000.4001 ?? 1 00C0 0011.700E >>> [the cursor would be here] I believe this is an easy fix, (probably in setup)but obviously I am clueless why I cannot get any input from the LK201 keyboard. BTW: can you tell what operating system this is on? The VAX is VaxServer 3100 (says "series BAA 4B" on back). I opened it up and found 3 hard drives I am considering running OpenVMS freeware on this and was wondering what is the upgrade paths to making this more effective: CD-ROM, Hard Drive, Memory. It has an obsolete looking tape drive and one space for another internal drive. Thanks for your help, it has been very useful thus far. Headley > Get any cable that has MMJ connectors on both ends and it will work. > > >3)what is MMJ ports and port 0 also has an RS232 output > > On the VT340, again looking from the back. There is a DB25 port on the left > hand side. This is "port 1" when it is using RS-232 levels. Lower and to > the right of this port are two MMJ plugs with the back to back arrows over > them. These represent Port 1 again (this time using DEC levels) and Port 2. > > Connect the MMJ cable between Port 1, and the MMJ port you identified in > step one above. Now turn on the VT340 and hit 'F3' to enter the setup menu. > Set the 'comm' parameters for Port 1 to use the DEC-423 and 'data leads > only' and 9600 baud, 8 data bits, and 1 stop bit. > > Now power on the VAX and look at the diagnostic LEDs. They should all come > on and then some should go off in what appears to be a random sequence. > After about 15 seconds a banner will print on the VT340 announcing the CPU > type and start counting down the tests. > > If the diagnostic lights change from 'all on' to various other states and > the VT340 does *NOT* print anything after 15 or 20 seconds, then using a > small device (an ice pick works great) to change the position of that > recessed switch you identified in step one, and power off and then on again > the VAX and wait for the banner. > > >My VaxServer is has the following ports: SCSI, a 25-pin db; 3 rj-11 type > >with left and right arrow; 2 Ethernet connector-one BNC and the other AUI; a > >50-pin port; aport that looks like a printer port with a left and right > >arrow. > > The console port is the one that is next to the small recessed switch and > has the arrows over it. > > >My VT340 has the following ports: 2 RJ-11 type with left and right arrows; a > >printer port; a keyboard port; a 25-pin dB port; and a 8-pin mini din port > > The ports on the VT340 (as you've ordered them) are: PORT 1, PORT 2, > PRINTER, KEYBOARD, PORT 1 (RS-232), MOUSE. > > --Chuck > > From at258 at osfn.org Thu Mar 29 09:23:36 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Amdahl, Hitachi drives, controllers available (Calgary, AB) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh Will, you know you want them. Sounds like a damn good excuse for a road trip, doesn't it? On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > IBM mainframes, Hitachi mainframes, and Amdahl mainframes.. They sound like > they're 3380-equivalent, at least the Amdahls do. I wish they were closer, > or I'd buy 'em, could use more storage. > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Thu Mar 29 10:32:25 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <42516029@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1291 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/b76364f6/attachment.bin From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 11:03:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions Message-ID: <01Mar29.121046est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >That's interesting, there was an Appletalk hardware/software solution for the >Amiga which was called... Doubletalk. It existed both as an external box for >A500s and a Zorro card for the big boxes. There was also the Emplant Deluxe with it's Localtalk ports, which I used to connect my A4000 up to various Mac's. I never ran it as the Emplant emulator but as a hardware extension of Shapeshifter's emulation. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 11:03:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions Message-ID: <01Mar29.121043est.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >That's interesting, there was an Appletalk hardware/software solution for the >Amiga which was called... Doubletalk. It existed both as an external box for >A500s and a Zorro card for the big boxes. There was also the Emplant Deluxe with it's Localtalk ports, which I used to connect my A4000 up to various Mac's. I never ran it as the Emplant emulator but as a hardware extension of Shapeshifter's emulation. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 11:16:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <01Mar29.122312est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Hi all, > >My mom has the following setup: > >- Beige G3 minitower >- Apple LaserWriter Pro 600 >- OS 9.1 > >The printer and Mac are connected via LocalTalk. (This printer requires >AppleTalk.) > >She is afraid that the next upgrade (OS X) will make the printer unuseable, >since Apple is phasing out LocalTalk (this Mac is the last model that still >comes with a damn serial port). My first suggestion would be that, unless she has a specific reason for upgrading to OS X, she should stay with 9.1. Like all Version 1.0 items, OS X is going to need a few things worked out and will likely be adopted immediately by: a) developers, b) hard core geeks that just have to have the latest and greatest thing released, c) people that don't know any better and give in to some form or another of pressure to upgrade. She'd be better off waiting for it to mature a little bit, especially if she is just a casual user. As for the serial ports, since the Beige G3 is a supported machine, I would thing that it's serial ports would be supported as well. The only G3 or newer system not supported by OS X is the original G3 Powerbook. Jeff From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Mar 29 11:44:44 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <42516029@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: I've seen NuBus centronics adapters on ebay that allow you to have a standard 25 pin centronics compatible parallel port - you might look around for one. I'm not sure if your machine has NuBus or PCI but I'm guessing that it's NuBus. Why is she worried about upgrading if the OS doens't suit her needs? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marion Bates Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:32 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? Hi all, My mom has the following setup: - Beige G3 minitower - Apple LaserWriter Pro 600 - OS 9.1 The printer and Mac are connected via LocalTalk. (This printer requires AppleTalk.) She is afraid that the next upgrade (OS X) will make the printer unuseable, since Apple is phasing out LocalTalk (this Mac is the last model that still comes with a damn serial port). The printer has no Ethernet capability, but it does have a parallel port in addition to the LocalTalk port. The questions are: Is there any sort of hardware/software conversion kit that would allow the Mac to use that parallel port if LocalTalk becomes unavailable in the future? Does anyone have any experience with running OS X and making it play nice with legacy hardware like this? Also, do they still make LocalTalk PCI cards, and if so, is there any chance that the drivers would work under OS X? This printer still works like new and she's not ready to just chuck it and buy a new one. Sigh. Old hardware doesn't wear out fast enough to keep pace with new software. ;) TIA, -- Marion "Still using a PowerComputing100 with a G3 upgrade card and OS 7.6.1 so I can run my $1200 1993 Apple Color OneScanner which is not as good as today's lamest $79 USB scanner but it still works goddammit" Bates -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/733411dd/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Mar 29 11:47:29 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: <001b01c0b809$d2b0ea40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: See remarks in the folloowing: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I had no idea that int13 talks directly to the EPP port! It talks to whatever YOU WRITE it to talk to. The one that came with your motherboard is written for PC disk controllers. It is fairly simple code, and the source code is in the Technical Reference manual. > My understanding was that int13 uses a disk driver based on the > assumption that the ROM code talks to the device interface. "uses a disk driver"?? It _IS_ the lowest level disk driver you've got. Int13 typically IS the ROM code that talks to the disk controller hardware. By intercepting the vector, it can be supplemented or replaced by code in RAM. > I've no indication in any of the doc's or marketing > literature, for example, that I could boot my system from a SCSI drive attached > to the printer port via my Adaptec Printer-Port<=>SCSI adapter. I'd have > thought they'd make the claim if anyone would. This thread was NOT about BOOTING. If you want to BOOT using one of your Trantor/Adaptec T338/348/358 parallel port SCSI adapters, then you need to install a ROM in your computer that replaces and/or enhances INT13. Such a ROM is not commercially available as far as I know. To use ANY of the parallel port drives, whether SCSI or IDE, you need to either replace your ROMs with code that talks appropriately to that port rather than talking to the disk controller ports, OR boot the computer using a more "conventional" drive, and then run appropriate software that either runs as a block mode device driver, OR uses the network redirector (as CD-ROMs do with MSCDEX.EXE), OR hooks/replaces INT13. In short: Parallel port devices are not usually used to boot from. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > I've seen, and, in fact, own, several parallel port to SCSI interfaces, but > > > never a parallel port to IDE type. > > > > I have five of them here. (probably some more buried deeper) These are > > Rodeo. One that takes 3.5" IDE, and four that take 2.5" IDE and have > > batteries. I've also used ones from Pacific Rim. > > > > > > > It's quite conceivable, though. > > > > Thank you. > > I have a policy of raising the price every time somebody expresses doubt > > of existence of stuff that I'm selling. After all, that proves that it > > must be RARE! > > > > > > > The software would be a pain, however. > > > > Not too bad. There are easy ways and hard ways to do it. It's largely an > > issue of at what level it operates. (replacement Int13, v block mode > > device driver, etc.) > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 11:50:00 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. In-Reply-To: <20010329025153.TRLI22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Mar 28, 1 09:52:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1511 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/d76e6aef/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Mar 29 12:04:03 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Need help in figuring out what to bid on DEC Message-ID: <86.8ddd3cd.27f4d313@aol.com> Hi; I have run across a lot of DEC that is available at a Government agency that is available for negotiated sale. Unfortunately, there are some units I know little about. Since it is the government there are complications with the hard drives that I will mention after the list. The lot is; one Microvax II in a BA123 cabinet two VAX 4000/200s small square floor towers one VAX 4000/100 Desktop two DEC 2000 AXP one DEC PC AXP 150 one DEC 486 PC one DEC Storage works small drive tower w/o drives one CD tower with 3 or 4 CD drives in it, I think DEC mfg. but not sure. The limitations are no keyboards, mice or monitors. Otherwise the equipment seems complete. I will not have the opportunity to list boards, drives, etc. It is supposed to be working equipment. I was told by the property manager that the drives will have to be removed, or if I wanted the drives they would have to be erased to his satisfaction. No Government software can get out of the agency. Does anyone know how to clean the drives in situ given the limitations. I could probably scrounge up a terminal but I don't have one easily accessible. Not to mention I have no experience in reformatting vaxes. Would a honking big magnet trash the drives? If I can't clean the drives they will keep them. What I really need is an idea of the value of the units. It has to be more than scrap otherwise they will go for recycling. They have a contract with a scrap recycler that lets them deduct the value of the machines from their budget if they go to this recycler so it is too their advantage to recycle them. However the Property manager likes me and is willing to help if I can satisfy his requirements. I have little interest in keeping them so they would be offered to the list first. If you want to make an offer on any please contact me off list at whoagiii@aol.com. Speculation of their value on list is OK by me if it is OK with the listmembers. What are the AXP units? I have no idea what AXP means or what processors are in them? Thanks for the help. Paxton Portland, Oregon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 11:52:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ide harddrive In-Reply-To: <003501c0b7f3$06a841c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 28, 1 06:53:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/acd84efe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 11:54:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: ZX80/81 expansion In-Reply-To: <3AC23659.9137.1FC286A0@localhost> from "Stan Sieler" at Mar 28, 1 07:07:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 510 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/10ff1564/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 11:58:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <000e01c0b80d$4e698e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 28, 1 10:01:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/82b6e8d1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 12:02:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <1154.488T1900T3805549optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 29, 1 06:20:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/954d4c44/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 12:05:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <10103290915.ZM7535@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 29, 1 08:15:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 573 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/70bdd59f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 12:07:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:32 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: <10103290955.ZM7575@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 29, 1 08:55:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 498 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/8cebacb9/attachment.ksh From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Thu Mar 29 12:17:33 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <42523292@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- "Russ Blakeman" wrote: I've seen NuBus centronics adapters on ebay that allow you to have a standard 25 pin centronics compatible parallel port - you might look around for one. I'm not sure if your machine has NuBus or PCI but I'm guessing that it's NuBus. ------ PCI actually. The question then becomes, how does the driver deal with it -- I mean, the LaserWriter 8 driver for this printer looks at the printer port, so how would it "know" to look at an adapter card...hmmm. ------ Why is she worried about upgrading if the OS doens't suit her needs? --- end of quote --- She's in no rush, but clearly the software developers will eventually no longer support the old OS and then she will have to upgrade. So it's good to find out what will happen when the time comes. She is a graphic designer and webmaster so it matters that she be able to run new versions of Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, etc. and at some point OS 9 will be obsolete. Thanks, -- MB From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Mar 29 11:39:18 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Your message of "29 Mar 2001 11:32:25 EST." <42516029@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <200103291739.SAA10685@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Marion.Bates@dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) said: > Hi all, > > > My mom has the following setup: > > > - Beige G3 minitower > > - Apple LaserWriter Pro 600 > > - OS 9.1 > > > The printer and Mac are connected via LocalTalk. (This printer requires > AppleTalk.) > > > She is afraid that the next upgrade (OS X) will make the printer unuseable, > since Apple is phasing out LocalTalk (this Mac is the last model that still > comes with a damn serial port). > > > The printer has no Ethernet capability, but it does have a parallel port in > addition to the LocalTalk port. > > > The questions are: Is there any sort of hardware/software conversion kit that > would allow the Mac to use that parallel port if LocalTalk becomes unavailable > in the future? There are Mac USB to _serial_ adapters which let you use your old printers. Whether these work in OSX I can't say...I've not scraped enough money together yet to afford a modern enough Mac to run OSX ;-( -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 12:30:21 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <01Mar29.133718est.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I've seen NuBus centronics adapters on ebay that allow you to have a standard 25 pin centronics >compatible >parallel port - you might look around for one. I'm not sure if your machine has NuBus or >PCI but I'm guessing >that it's NuBus. Why is she worried about upgrading if the OS doens't suit her >needs? The Beige G3 is a PCI based tower. It was the first G3 powered desktop/tower that Apple sold and is generally had in speeds between 233 and 300 mhz. Jeff From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Mar 29 12:31:16 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <200103290449.f2T4nbO15657@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > But if you REALLY want to do it right, you wind your own coil on a > shellacked oatmeal box.....or, a shellacked salt box. Or a toilet paper roll, or a paper towel roll. The materials abound. Of course, the real fun is to build the whole thing with salvaged materials. Piece of wood nails wire unwound from an old electric motor cardboard tube from the kitchen safety pin pencil lead razor blade The hardest item is the earphone. Can be made, but not easily. > > All of mine used a germanium diode and a prewound coil, so there. > I'll shut up now. Modern technology. next thing you know you'll be wanting a variable cpacitor for tuning and everything. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 29 11:33:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > My suggestion to use a ready-made diode (in the UK I'd use something like > an OA81) is that you know that diode is good. You can then wind the coil > and wire up the rest of the set, knowing that if it doesn't work the > problem is not due to the fact you've not found a spot of the right > impurities in the crystal. When you've got it working, you can then swap > the diode for the crystal and catswhisker, knowing that if it doesn't > work the problem is with that. That's cheating. What if you want to reproduce the experience of early radio pioneers? They didn't have finely manufactured diodes :) > Otherwise there are too many variables IMHO. And you'll be much the wiser when you do get it all figured out. (I'm a purist :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Thu Mar 29 12:47:20 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <42525841@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> ah-HA! http://www.farallon.com/products/ether/adapters/iprintadapter.html Yay. :) -- MB From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Thu Mar 29 12:41:20 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: Everything past the early PowerMacs is PCI, not NuBus. I'm going to agree that there's no compelling reason for her to upgrade to OSX. Hell, Adobe and other major vendors aren't going to have their apps carbonized for a few months yet. OSX is not essential even on the newest G4 until there's applications that can take advantage of its next-gen capabilities (i.e. multithreading for multiprocessing, integrated G4 acceleration). If she were to upgrade to OSX she'd still be running the majority of her stuff in a "Classic" environment window. If she decides she's absolutely got to keep using this localtalk printer after LocalTalk support is dropped, perhaps she could use a LocalTalk to EtherNet adapter. Assuming the software will support such a thing. Once ATM and Photoshop and Freehand and Premiere and InDesign are OSX-native, look out! Now - who wants to help me track down a 2 to 9 gig internal SCSI harddrive for my Quadra 700 running NetBSD that I use as my BIND and Sendmail server? -carl "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent by: cc: owner-classiccmp@clas Subject: RE: Apple LWPro parallel port? siccmp.org 03/29/01 11:44 AM Please respond to classiccmp I've seen NuBus centronics adapters on ebay that allow you to have a standard 25 pin centronics compatible parallel port - you might look around for one. I'm not sure if your machine has NuBus or PCI but I'm guessing that it's NuBus. Why is she worried about upgrading if the OS doens't suit her needs? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marion Bates Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:32 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? Hi all, My mom has the following setup: - Beige G3 minitower - Apple LaserWriter Pro 600 - OS 9.1 The printer and Mac are connected via LocalTalk. (This printer requires AppleTalk.) She is afraid that the next upgrade (OS X) will make the printer unuseable, since Apple is phasing out LocalTalk (this Mac is the last model that still comes with a damn serial port). The printer has no Ethernet capability, but it does have a parallel port in addition to the LocalTalk port. The questions are: Is there any sort of hardware/software conversion kit that would allow the Mac to use that parallel port if LocalTalk becomes unavailable in the future? Does anyone have any experience with running OS X and making it play nice with legacy hardware like this? Also, do they still make LocalTalk PCI cards, and if so, is there any chance that the drivers would work under OS X? This printer still works like new and she's not ready to just chuck it and buy a new one. Sigh. Old hardware doesn't wear out fast enough to keep pace with new software. ;) TIA, -- Marion "Still using a PowerComputing100 with a G3 upgrade card and OS 7.6.1 so I can run my $1200 1993 Apple Color OneScanner which is not as good as today's lamest $79 USB scanner but it still works goddammit" Bates From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Mar 29 12:55:31 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <3546.488T1200T3995201optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 29, 2001 06:39:24 am" Message-ID: <200103291855.KAA00212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> >> What is the purpose of the DB-9 connector? > My old SynOptics 2813 hubs have a DA9 as well, and it's some odd I'm going to pop in and point out a pet peeve of mine. The letter following the D in a D-sub connector is the shell size. The standard options I'm aware of are: DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, and the occasional 2DE-19 and 2DB-52. Those 19 pin "D style" connectors that Apple, Atari & NeXT were so fond of don't really count because they were really just an attempt to force people to buy branded products. It's quite possible that someone made a DB-9 or a DA-9. If they did, you certainly couldn't plug your mouse into one. (Actually there is a DB-9W4 which has 5 standard pins and 4 places for either coax inserts or size 8 pins (just in case you need to run 160 amps through your connector.)) It doesn't so much bother me when people use "DB-9" in conversation, but when people selling the things online have them listed incorrectly it makes a search more difficult. My next tirade will be on why you should always specify pins and sockets rather than male or female. (It doesn't have anything to do with sexism.) Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion. Eric From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Mar 29 13:00:10 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: From "(env:" "korpela)" at "Mar 29, 2001 10:55:31 am" Message-ID: <200103291900.LAA00401@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, Well, so much for tirades. :) Can't even keep them straight myself. That should be DD-78. Eric From edick at idcomm.com Thu Mar 29 13:13:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <001701c0b884$5bc365e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, that must be the PPC34C60 datasheet. It has an "example" of what the SMSC folks think would be a typical application. You're quite right, by the way, that this chip appears to be intended to devise an ISA bus from the EPP, though it supports other printer port modes as well. Another interesting device in IP-core form appears at http://www.virtualipgroup.com/ds1284P.PDF. Both devices support DMA, which, IIRC, is not directly supported by the EPP, though it's not disabled from using it. What I'm curious about now is, where can one find a driver capable of emulating the ISA bus in a useful way under Windows, which is clearly what these devices were designed for, but I don't see it happening easily. SMSC (the semiconductor house portion of SMC, I do believe) has a few sample drivers and app notes on their web site, but I've got doubts. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:52 AM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > I'd be VERY interested in seeing that schematic, Tony! I've no doubt that it > > can be done, but I wonder how fast it will be. > > Somebody else has posted a URL to get what appears to be the data sheet > from (it's a .pdf, so I can't check to make sure it is the right chip). > > The 'schematic' is little more than the chip and a couple of DRAMs, I think. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Mar 29 13:16:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: <200103291855.KAA00212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <002101c0b884$b4516180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> One teensy thing ... it's a DD-78, not DE, which is obvious when one considers that the little VGA connector is in the 'E' shell. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 11:55 AM Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > >> What is the purpose of the DB-9 connector? > > My old SynOptics 2813 hubs have a DA9 as well, and it's some odd > > I'm going to pop in and point out a pet peeve of mine. The letter > following the D in a D-sub connector is the shell size. > > The standard options I'm aware of are: > DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, > and the occasional 2DE-19 and 2DB-52. Those 19 pin "D style" connectors > that Apple, Atari & NeXT were so fond of don't really count because > they were really just an attempt to force people to buy branded > products. > > It's quite possible that someone made a DB-9 or a DA-9. If they did, > you certainly couldn't plug your mouse into one. (Actually there is > a DB-9W4 which has 5 standard pins and 4 places for either coax inserts > or size 8 pins (just in case you need to run 160 amps through your > connector.)) > > It doesn't so much bother me when people use "DB-9" in conversation, but > when people selling the things online have them listed incorrectly it > makes a search more difficult. > > My next tirade will be on why you should always specify pins and sockets > rather than male or female. (It doesn't have anything to do with sexism.) > Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion. > > Eric > > From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Mar 29 13:18:12 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <42523292@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Mar 29, 01 01:17:33 pm Message-ID: <200103291918.OAA11869@wordstock.com> > > ------ > Why is she worried about upgrading if the OS doens't suit her > needs? > --- end of quote --- > > She's in no rush, but clearly the software developers will eventually no > longer support the old OS and then she will have to upgrade. So it's good > to find out what will happen when the time comes. She is a graphic designer > and webmaster so it matters that she be able to run new versions of > Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, etc. and at some point OS 9 will be > obsolete. > The other thing to consider is: Will OS X run at a useful speed on her computer? Does the new versions of Photoshop require more RAM and / or computing power? Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM required... (P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... Bryan From edick at idcomm.com Thu Mar 29 13:21:23 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: ide harddrive References: Message-ID: <002701c0b885$7140b0c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Let me rephrase ... I've yet to see a ROM BIOS that contains a floppy/hard disk handler that talks through a parllel port. If you're going to boot from a device, the ROM is the guy that's got to have the code to talk to the boot device. If it's on the boot device, it won't boot just because it's there. It has to be in the ROM. Excuuuse me! ... I didn't believe that int13 was anything other than a logical interrupt vector, and that the ISR to which it points was a body of code. That's why, until AMI, AWARD, and Phoenix BIOS' have specific code for addressing disk I/O via the parallel port, you won't be able to boot from it. Maybe they've gotten around to that, but I've yet to see it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:47 AM Subject: Re: ide harddrive > See remarks in the folloowing: > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I had no idea that int13 talks directly to the EPP port! > It talks to whatever YOU WRITE it to talk to. The one that came with your > motherboard is written for PC disk controllers. It is fairly simple code, > and the source code is in the Technical Reference manual. > > > My understanding was that int13 uses a disk driver based on the > > assumption that the ROM code talks to the device interface. > > "uses a disk driver"?? It _IS_ the lowest level disk driver you've got. > Int13 typically IS the ROM code that talks to the disk controller > hardware. By intercepting the vector, it can be supplemented or replaced > by code in RAM. > > > > I've no indication in any of the doc's or marketing > > literature, for example, that I could boot my system from a SCSI drive attached > > to the printer port via my Adaptec Printer-Port<=>SCSI adapter. I'd have > > thought they'd make the claim if anyone would. > > This thread was NOT about BOOTING. > If you want to BOOT using one of your Trantor/Adaptec T338/348/358 > parallel port SCSI adapters, then you need to install a ROM in your > computer that replaces and/or enhances INT13. Such a ROM is not > commercially available as far as I know. > > To use ANY of the parallel port drives, whether SCSI or IDE, you need to > either replace your ROMs with code that talks appropriately to that port > rather than talking to the disk controller ports, OR > boot the computer using a more "conventional" drive, and then run > appropriate software that either runs as a block mode device driver, OR > uses the network redirector (as CD-ROMs do with MSCDEX.EXE), OR > hooks/replaces INT13. > > In short: > Parallel port devices are not usually used to boot from. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 7:47 PM > > Subject: Re: ide harddrive > > > > > > > > I've seen, and, in fact, own, several parallel port to SCSI interfaces, but > > > > never a parallel port to IDE type. > > > > > > I have five of them here. (probably some more buried deeper) These are > > > Rodeo. One that takes 3.5" IDE, and four that take 2.5" IDE and have > > > batteries. I've also used ones from Pacific Rim. > > > > > > > > > > It's quite conceivable, though. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > I have a policy of raising the price every time somebody expresses doubt > > > of existence of stuff that I'm selling. After all, that proves that it > > > must be RARE! > > > > > > > > > > The software would be a pain, however. > > > > > > Not too bad. There are easy ways and hard ways to do it. It's largely an > > > issue of at what level it operates. (replacement Int13, v block mode > > > device driver, etc.) > > > > > > -- > > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > > > From red at bears.org Thu Mar 29 13:24:55 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <200103291855.KAA00212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > The standard options I'm aware of are: > DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, > and the occasional 2DE-19 and 2DB-52. Those 19 pin "D style" connectors > that Apple, Atari & NeXT were so fond of don't really count because > they were really just an attempt to force people to buy branded > products. That's good to know about the 2DE-19. So now what I wonder is what's the designation for the 23-pin D-sub connector used for RGB on the Amiga 500? (or was it the disk drive? I don't rememeber) ok r. From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Mar 29 13:30:18 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) References: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c0b886$b0c67b20$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I've heard that you can use pyrite cristals, and I tried it once with cristals that formed on an old rotten lead-acid battery but the result was not optimal. You should also experiment with the wisker. Metals like silver and phosphor-bronze come to mind. In essence anything that creates a PN-junction with a low voltage drop (0.2 .. 0.3 V) should do the trick if the ohmic resistance is not too high. Sipke de Wal -------------------------------------------------- "In the land of the blind ..... ...... One-Eye is torchbearer" -------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) > > --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Mar 27, 22:02, Mike Ford wrote: > > > >I'm old, dirts older. When I was in school you were really cool of your > > > >radio had six transistors... > > > > > > Are you sure you weren't trying to impress people with the catwhisker on > > > your crystal set? ;) > > > > Don't be silly. My crystal set had a germanium diode, and I bet Allison's > > did too :-) > > So did mine, but my father built a real crystal set in the 1940's. Somewhere, > I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section > of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use > as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have > a nephew that will be old enough to build one, soon. I figured on the diode > type, first, then, if he's still interested, show him how they did it when > Grandpa was a kid. > > -ethan > > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From kdavis at ndx.net Thu Mar 29 14:07:46 2001 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: *Free* Vax parts for available for pickup in either Groton or Littleton Mass In-Reply-To: <002701c0b885$7140b0c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 29, 2001 12:21:23 PM Message-ID: <200103292007.f2TK7kr09057@bender.ndx.net> I won a eBay auction for a uVax. I'm only interested in the CPU and memory boards in it. I'm looking for someone that is willing to pick it up and send me the boards (I'll pay shipping). In return you can keep the other parts (which I have plenty of here). Here's the desc of the unit: This system is in a BA123 world box. It has been upgraded to a 4000-200 CPU and 16mb of memory. Included are VR19 19' monochrome display, 2-LK200 keyboard, mouse, 2-RD54 disks, 1-RF71 disk, CD drive and TK50 tape drive. The system consists of the following modules: M7626-aa, m7622, [M7169 and 2 m7168(GPX graphics set)], 2 m9047, m7546, m7552, m3106, m7555. A VT420 terminal is included. The system powers up and boots v5.5-2. Only one keyboard works. This system is completely functional with the exception of the second keyboard. Email if interested Kirk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 13:57:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <200103291855.KAA00212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Mar 29, 1 10:55:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1421 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010329/61a23daa/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Mar 29 14:01:23 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <01Mar29.150819est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >The other thing to consider is: Will OS X run at a useful speed on her >computer? Does the new versions of Photoshop require more RAM and / or >computing power? I just finished an install of OS X on a Beige G3/300 with 192MB RAM and it seems to run fine. I'm doing the initial testing on the G3/300 before installing it on the newer G4's we have. I installed it over the top of a current OS 8.6 setup and in fact, this email is being sent from Outlook running on 'Classic' under OS X. The install went painlessly, the speed is acceptable and it was quite simple getting the network settings put back to where everything worked. OS X ships with 3 CD's, one of which is OS 9.1, which I had to upgrade 8.6 to prior to installing OS X. 9.1 is what it actually uses to run 'Classic' applications. BTW, for those familiar with NeXTstep, it's easy to see the lineage behind OS X. They even kept the spinning multicolored pinwheel while the system is loading. Jeff From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 29 14:09:49 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Mar 29, 1 02:24:55 pm" Message-ID: <200103292009.MAA14950@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > That's good to know about the 2DE-19. So now what I wonder is what's the > designation for the 23-pin D-sub connector used for RGB on the Amiga 500? > (or was it the disk drive? I don't rememeber) It's video, and the official designation is PITA-23. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Eat healthy, stay fit, DIE ANYWAY! ----------------------------------------- From sean at techcare.com Thu Mar 29 13:51:32 2001 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Need help in figuring out what to bid on DEC References: <86.8ddd3cd.27f4d313@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f701c0b889$a7c94630$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 1:04 PM Subject: Need help in figuring out what to bid on DEC > Hi; > > I have run across a lot of DEC that is available at a Government agency that > is available for negotiated sale. Unfortunately, there are some units I know > little about. Since it is the government there are complications with the > hard drives that I will mention after the list. > > The lot is; > one Microvax II in a BA123 cabinet > two VAX 4000/200s small square floor towers > one VAX 4000/100 Desktop > two DEC 2000 AXP > one DEC PC AXP 150 > one DEC 486 PC > one DEC Storage works small drive tower w/o drives > one CD tower with 3 or 4 CD drives in it, I think DEC mfg. but not sure. > > The limitations are no keyboards, mice or monitors. Otherwise the equipment > seems complete. I will not have the opportunity to list boards, drives, etc. > It is supposed to be working equipment. Well, I don't know what the opinion is of others out on the list, but I'd say that this whole load would easily be worth a few hundred dollars (well, to me, at least). Here's a quick breakdown as to my thoughts on some of these systems: > one Microvax II in a BA123 cabinet This is an older unit, circa 1985/1986 or so. They're slow, but they're a nice old VAX to play with, and the cabinet gives you a lot of room to play around with various old QBus cards and drives, and its really easy to service, too, not to mention classy looking. The only caveat is that it, like many other MicroVAX pedestal systems, is kind of heavy. I loaded one in and out of the trunk of my car myself, but it was quite a work-out. These probably have between 8 to 12 megabytes of RAM in them, MFM drives (unless someone upgraded them along the way), and maybe a QBus Ethernet card or some other goodies like that. > two VAX 4000/200s small square floor towers Nice units, probably around the middle to low end of the VAX 4000 range, which was the last real series of MicroVAX systems to be produced. I've never actually worked with these systems myself before, but they probably weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of the MicroVAX II system mentioned earlier. They're relatively speedy as VAXen go, and by extension of being newer, they've probably got larger (probably DSSI) drives and more RAM (say, 32 to 64 megabytes typically). These systems are probably the most valuable CISC VAXen in the bunch. > one VAX 4000/100 Desktop No idea what this is, although I assume its probably the lowest-end VAX 4000 system. Couldn't tell you a thing about it. Maybe it's similar to a VAXstation 4000/60 or 4000/90? > two DEC 2000 AXP These are desktop systems based on Digital's Alpha AXP CPU. Probably somewhere in the 200-300 megahertz range. These are pretty nice systems that were in the low to middle end of DEC's second generation Alpha product line. They're new enough to still be (in my opinion) pretty competitive for doing real work, and by extension, they're probably the most valuable Alpha systems in this lot. SCSI drives and getting on to maybe 32-64 megabytes of RAM if not more. Typically PCI VGA video and it accepts PS/2 keyboards and mice. Runs OpenVMS, Tru64 UNIX, and Windows NT for Alpha. > one DEC PC AXP 150 This is kind of a neat system. First generation Alpha built largely using commodity parts. I've got one of these and its kind of a nice system, although its getting a little dated for heavy-duty use in X. EISA bus, SCSI drives, VGA video (typically 8-bit running at a maximum resolution of 1024x768), and it accepts PS/2 keyboards and mice as well. This system will also run OpenVMS, Tru64 (up to the latest release, even), and Windows NT for Alpha. I love the case on these systems. It's really solid, but easy to get into at the same time. > one DEC 486 PC Worth nothing for all practical purposes. > one DEC Storage works small drive tower w/o drives It's just a drive cabinet, not too interesting without the drives. See if you can at least get the drive sleds for it. If you can pick those up, you'll have a nice SCSI drive cabinet around. I don't know how much sleds would cost on their own, but they're probably not cheap. > one CD tower with 3 or 4 CD drives in it, I think DEC mfg. but not sure. This would be nice to have, too, especially if the drives are 512 byte sector DEC RRD series types. It's probably SCSI. Hope this might help you out a little bit. It sounds like a really nice load! --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 29 14:26:47 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Free MVII in Portland OR Message-ID: <000901c0b88e$949910e0$0a00a8c0@azog> Saw this on comp.sys.dec, thought to pass it on: From: Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec Subject: Free MicroVAX II, Terminals in Portland, OR -- Please disregard this message if you are not in the Portland, Oregon area. -- I have a MicroVAX II, which I hope to find a new owner for. It is in the H9642 cabinet, which is about 26"x40"x36" (WxHxD), and weighs a couple of hundred pounds. It is not fully decked out, but contains the disk, and a complete system's worth of boards (CPU, memory, disk controller, network, etc.). It'll take a bit of work to put back together. I also have two LA-120's (terminal-printers), with some spare ribbons, huge box of paper, and a box of spare parts. I can also throw in a Wyse monitor which will work with the system. I also have a couple of boxes full of VMS and VAX documentation to the interested party. A couple of boxes of misc. VAX hardware also. All of this stuff is FREE, but preference given to whoever is willing to take the most stuff. Items located in North Portland (Rose Quarter & St. Johns area). I will NOT ship any of this stuff (so I apologize for the worldwide distribution of the message); taker must arrange for transportation of equipment. You will need a van or pickup truck to haul this stuff. Feel free to e-mail me back, or call me at 503-240-4922 if interested. Thanks, Terry Murphy From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Mar 29 14:35:11 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: VAX Ids (was Re: Need help in figuring out what to bid on DEC) In-Reply-To: <86.8ddd3cd.27f4d313@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010329122502.019960d0@208.226.86.10> Actually, unless something weird is going on we have: one Microvax II in a BA123 cabinet A small coffee table that runs as 0.9 VUPS unless its been upgraded. Space for 6 full height 5.25" storage elements, typically ran with 3 RDxx series, a TK50 tape, and sometimes an RX50 dual floppy. Weighs about 200 lbs. >two VAX 4000/200s small square floor towers Assuming the 'top' direction is the square reference, these are two 4000/200's in BA215 cases. 6 slot Q-bus backplane, KA660 CPU. 16 - 32Mb of memory. The nicest thing about the KA660 was that it was the highest performance VAX cpu that ran in an unmodified Q/CD backplane (its got Q-bus fingers). At 5 VUPs it wasn't even as fast as the VAXStation 4000/VLC CPU however its 6KB cache and on-board DSSI controller made it the classic "double your power, double your fun" upgrade for the MicroVAX 3400 (KA640). As a drop in replacement CPU it doubled system performance. >one VAX 4000/100 Desktop The was apparently a strange duck. It is a desktop unit with good performance (24 VUPS) making it nearly 5 times the speed of the 4000/200, however in an effort to support customers who had invested in Q-bus vaxen this unit has a Q-bus! Two connectors in the back connect to cables that attach to the B4000X S-box expansion unit. 11 Q-bus slots, (slot 1 had the q-bus extension card in it.) This let your "desktop" (and its a pretty big desktop) VAX continue to use you legacy cards. As a collector of Q-bus VAXen I keep thinking this would be a good one to get but then I'd have to track down a B4000X and some cables. >two DEC 2000 AXP >one DEC PC AXP 150 Alpha Boxen >one DEC 486 PC A good monitor so that your VR219 is up closer to eye level :-) >one DEC Storage works small drive tower w/o drives >one CD tower with 3 or 4 CD drives in it, I think DEC mfg. but not sure. Disks are disks. --Chuck From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Thu Mar 29 16:50:52 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Seeking monitor in Netherlands In-Reply-To: <200103292007.f2TK7kr09057@bender.ndx.net>; from kdavis@ndx.net on Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 12:07:46PM -0800 References: <002701c0b885$7140b0c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <200103292007.f2TK7kr09057@bender.ndx.net> Message-ID: <20010329225052.B489@localhostnl.demon.nl> I have an Apollo DN3010 that needs a monitor. Something like an HP 98751 (Sony 19") would be great. All it needs to be is a 3 BNC that supports "sync on green". If you have one hanging around in need of a new home, please let me know. Thank you, -Bill Amsterdam, NL From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Mar 29 14:57:42 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Need help in figuring out what to bid on DEC References: <86.8ddd3cd.27f4d313@aol.com> Message-ID: <3AC3A1C0.16BFAB7C@eoni.com> It's been a number of years, but assuming that they're running VMS, I believe that you can invoke the formatter, FMT, and format the drives just by specifing the drive ID. ie. R FMT FMT> DU0: etc. You *will* have to come up with a terminal and a serial cable. Any VT series should do the trick, however, a VT100 or 101 would probably be best in that they're the default term. Another concern is the OS, it would be a shame to have to remove it when removing the apps and data. Might be that your best course of action is to find someone locally who speaks VMS and bribe them to accompany you. That way you might be able to retain some of the OS while assuring the property admin type that he's not giving away the farm. Jim Arnott From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Mar 29 15:07:19 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010329081906.00f7974c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <20010329210719.41101.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 10:15 PM 3/27/01 -0800, you wrote: > >> The LaserJet 4ML will definatly work as it's postscript... > > > >It is; that's why I got it (and paid $1100 for it, brand-new). I wasn't > >going to get a laser printer until I could afford PostScript. > > Me, I could not possibly afford a laser printer...set up a ghostscript filter > on my hp9000/735 and I can print in color postscript on my lowly deskjet695. Done that, too, but years after I got the HP. When I got the 4ML, ink jet printers were much pricier than they are now. I think a decent one was between $200-$350. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 16:27:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103291918.OAA11869@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <475.488T1100T14075105optimus@canit.se> Bryan Pope skrev: >Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are >talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM >required... >(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a communist. From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 15:36:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1383.488T2200T13565741optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> Oops, I forgot I was using such drives, too. Is that what Shugart defines? >Basically, yes. It's a de-facto standard using a 34 pin edge connector >(or a header plug on 3.5" drives -- with essentially the same pinout). >It's a low level interface -- raw data to/from the read/write >electronics, a signal to move the head one cylinder and one to say the >direction of movement, status signals for track0, write protect, and so on. Apart from the Mac drives, I've got one other drive which is not all that bog- standard. It's the HD drive in my Amiga 4000, which has been factory modified to run at a slower speed when encountering a HD disk, so as not to saturate the Paula chip. It's a shame that Commodore decided to change the drive instead of the controller. >> What is a DD50? I'm thinking of the connector used on PS/2s, which looks >> like >A 50 pin D-connector. 3 rows of pins in a shell wider than all the other >D connectors. Nope, that's not it. >> a small Centronics connector. >No, that's no the one I was thinking of, but I am sure I've seen such >connectors on other machines (DEC?) Some VAXes used a small Centronics connector as well, but it's not the same kind, either. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 16:30:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <702.488T2500T14106389optimus@canit.se> r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: >> The standard options I'm aware of are: >> DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, >> and the occasional 2DE-19 and 2DB-52. Those 19 pin "D style" connectors >> that Apple, Atari & NeXT were so fond of don't really count because >> they were really just an attempt to force people to buy branded >> products. >That's good to know about the 2DE-19. So now what I wonder is what's the >designation for the 23-pin D-sub connector used for RGB on the Amiga 500? >(or was it the disk drive? I don't rememeber) Both. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 29 15:55:13 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <42516029@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: >She is afraid that the next upgrade (OS X) will make the printer >unuseable, since Apple is phasing out LocalTalk (this Mac is the last >model that still comes with a damn serial port). Don't worry, 10 different easy ways from little boxes to software running on a spare mac will convert between ethernet and localtalk. Also while apple may be phasing out serial ports and localtalk hardware on new macs, I REALLY doubt it will drop software localtalk support on all the existing hardware that soon. BTW I have many of the little ethernet to localtalk boxes, price varies from $15 to $30 dependingon the flavor. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 29 15:53:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <42523292@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: >She's in no rush, but clearly the software developers will eventually no >longer support the old OS and then she will have to upgrade. So it's good >to find out what will happen when the time comes. She is a graphic >designer and webmaster so it matters that she be able to run new versions >of Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, etc. and at some point OS 9 will be >obsolete. That may well be Job's dream, but I doubt it. Apple isn't even going to initially ship machines with OS X installed, so for maybe the next year there is no real push to write software specficially for it. Look at the switch from 68k to PPC as an example. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 29 15:16:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Need help in figuring out what to bid on DEC In-Reply-To: <86.8ddd3cd.27f4d313@aol.com> Message-ID: >I have run across a lot of DEC that is available at a Government agency that >is available for negotiated sale. Unfortunately, there are some units I know >little about. Since it is the government there are complications with the >hard drives that I will mention after the list. Talking to some surplus guys last weekend they were saying the government is spooked with the latest spy guy and they are hearing that EVERYTHING (all storage media) is now to be shredded. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Mar 29 16:09:53 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010329220953.45624.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > BTW I have many of the little ethernet to localtalk boxes, price varies > from $15 to $30 dependingon the flavor. I take it you resolved the issue of ROM code, driver software, etc. I still have that Fastpath4 sitting idle, waiting for the chance to put it to use. Any pointers on how to get it up and active? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Mar 29 16:11:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010329221123.84390.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > ...So now what I wonder is what's the designation for the 23-pin D-sub > connector used for RGB on the Amiga 500? (or was it the disk drive? I don't > rememeber) Both. One female and one male. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Mar 29 16:22:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <475.488T1100T14075105optimus@canit.se> References: <200103291918.OAA11869@wordstock.com> Message-ID: >>Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are >>talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM >>required... >>(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... > >Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in >this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 16:49:12 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: Age-old ethernet equipment" (Mar 29, 15:40) References: <2837.488T200T9403413optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10103292349.ZM8071@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 15:40, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Pete Turnbull skrev: > >On Mar 29, 6:39, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >Well, they would really all be the same network -- they'd be all one > >collision domain (any packet or collision appearing on one port would be > >seen on all the others. That's what a repeater does). > > True, but at least they will look like that and there won't be a dozen > unused ports. Yes, I see what you mean. You won't get any more bandwidth on any part of the net, nor on the whole net, but you will have the advantage that it's easier to isolate a fault if one occurs. And of course, extra blinkenlights, which is always A Good Thing :-) > >> What management would be involved with a repeater? > > >Partitioning segments [...] Monitoring traffic levels [or] types > >[...] Keeping a list of MAC addresses [...] setting [IP address] > > or telling [the repeater] to use bootp/dhcp) or upgrade > >the firmware, or set passwords. > > That monitoring seems interesting. If you think so, find out about SNMP (Simple Network Management Protocol) and possibly RMON. If you have Windows, look for the SNMP service which is buried in one of the subdirectories on your CD; it includes "snmputil" which you can use to retrieve or set information (but beware if you install it on an Internet-accessible machine as it makes a lot of things available to remote enquirers and has a lot of security problems). If you have Linux, look on the net for UCD SNMP (which has some command line utilities) and SNMPY or SCOTTY. There's also gxsnmp but it's only in an early stage of development. For a bit of fun, take a look at Netcool (expensive!) or MRTG (free!). There's lots more, but that'll give you some idea. http://rak.isternet.sk/linux-netman/snmp.html is a reasonable place to start. > >> IOW it's just a glorified OFF switch. =) > > >Partitioning, is, yes. Segmenting isn't, it's just a way of making one > >big(ish) hub do the job of a few smaller ones. > > I was rather hoping it had that ability. Segementing? Not many repeaters do, especially old ones, as it needs a fair amount of extra electronics. Basically it's done by a crossbar switch, which is inside one large ASIC in modern repeaters that provide it. The most common form of segmenting in hubs is in dual-speed (10/100baseT) hubs; what they really do is segment the ports into a 10baseT segment and a 100baseT segement, with a little store-and-forward switch in between. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 17:07:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <200103292009.MAA14950@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <800.489T2250T75507optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> That's good to know about the 2DE-19. So now what I wonder is what's the >> designation for the 23-pin D-sub connector used for RGB on the Amiga 500? >> (or was it the disk drive? I don't rememeber) >It's video, and the official designation is PITA-23. :-P Pain-in-the-arse-23? Why? I find the Amiga video connector to be the most versatile I've ever encountered. It's got both analogue and digital video as well as pins for genlock, clocks, three kinds of sync, lots of DC and ground. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Mar 29 16:53:26 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Ram Hogging (was Re: Apple LWPro parallel port?) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Mar 29, 2001 02:22:03 PM Message-ID: <200103292253.PAA28050@calico.litterbox.com> Want a real modern OS that runs on anything above pentium 60 and does useful work in 32 megs of RAM? check out BeOS www.gobe.com > > >>Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are > >>talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM > >>required... > >>(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... > > > >Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in > >this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? > > Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. The point is it's a symptom of very sloppy programming to use that much RAM. Given that, it suggests it won't be very stable, either. Microsoft has proven with every OS since the birth of Windows that they are incapable of producing a stable, efficient, well designed OS. Even WinCE apparently crashes frequently. I use BeOS as my stability benchmark, and it only goes down when: 1. I shut it down. 2. Power Outages. 3. I get a misbehaving app that consumes my system resources and I shut it down. 4. Hardware death. I gave up on win95 2 years ago and while I miss the plethora of apps, I'll never willingly go back. BeOS has most of the apps I actually *use*. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 29 17:47:23 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords Message-ID: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I really think it should work on any model. If there is a well known fix, disregard. After much searching the web on this, all I ever found was "replace NVRAM chip" I will post the procedure here if anyone is interested. Brian. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Mar 29 17:16:00 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade In-Reply-To: <800.489T2250T75507optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Mar 30, 2001 12:07:45 AM Message-ID: <200103292316.QAA28154@calico.litterbox.com> > Pain-in-the-arse-23? > Why? I find the Amiga video connector to be the most versatile I've ever > encountered. It's got both analogue and digital video as well as pins for > genlock, clocks, three kinds of sync, lots of DC and ground. Mmm. Question. Is there any (safe) way to wire the 23 pin video connector on an Amiga to the cm/y/k inputs on a 1085 line HDTV? :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 29 17:22:02 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <800.489T2250T75507optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 30, 1 00:07:45 am" Message-ID: <200103292322.PAA13738@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >It's video, and the official designation is PITA-23. :-P > > Pain-in-the-arse-23? > Why? I find the Amiga video connector to be the most versatile I've ever > encountered. It's got both analogue and digital video as well as pins for > genlock, clocks, three kinds of sync, lots of DC and ground. That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people stock DB23 connectors. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Life is like a simile. ----------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Mar 29 16:22:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >>Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are > >>talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM > >>required... > >>(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... > > > >Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in > >this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? > > Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. Does it make sense to pave 1000 acres of earth for no good reason just because it would only cost $25 per acre? Very stupid analogy, bet you get my drift. I don't understand what the hell would be going on in 128MB of RAM. It sickens, saddens, and depresses me. I think I'm gonna go drink myself into a stupor now. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Thu Mar 29 17:48:38 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords References: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <002a01c0b8aa$c870a330$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Roth" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM > in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I > really think it should work on any model. > > If there is a well known fix, disregard. After much searching the web > on this, all I ever found was "replace NVRAM chip" > > I will post the procedure here if anyone is interested. My Sparc 1+ currently fails when booting linux. I get this message: IDPROM: unknown format type! program terminating Is there a way to by pass the PROM? The current PROM is a 525-1107-04 Can other sparc PROMS be used as a replacement? A note of success, my latest Apple ][ plus seems to have a z80 card inside and the previous owner has also added the extra ram, and internal fan and a RF converter for TV. IT still has the original packaging and the game paddles. From red at bears.org Thu Mar 29 17:56:07 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade In-Reply-To: <200103292316.QAA28154@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Mmm. Question. Is there any (safe) way to wire the 23 pin video connector > on an Amiga to the cm/y/k inputs on a 1085 line HDTV? :) Aha! Now THAT is a very good question, and one that I would surely like to hear the answer to. (: The inputs aren't CMYK, BTW. Actually, they're not RGB (analog or digital), either. Unless you're a lucky European with a SCART connector. (: It's Y'Pb'Pr', which is analog color-difference video (interlaced or progressive scan), generically known as "YUV". According to the DVD FAQ, YUV to RGB transcoders costing $200 to $300 are rumoured to exist but "seem hard to track down." It mentions a $700 converter is available from avscience (http://www.avscience.com) and that Extron (http://www.extron.com) has one for $900. ok r. From azog at azog.org Thu Mar 29 18:18:04 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? References: Message-ID: <000d01c0b8ae$e40dbde0$0a00a8c0@azog> Why, of course you need all those little animations that appear, like when you're copying a file or checking your mail, so you can be sure that your computer hasn't locked up yet... and who could live without "active desktop", that puts (live) web pages directly as your wallpaper? > > I don't understand what the hell would be going on in 128MB of RAM. It > sickens, saddens, and depresses me. > From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Mar 29 18:20:49 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords In-Reply-To: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010329182049.0089ee80@ubanproductions.com> I am interested. Did you look at the documentation on the NetBSD web site? --tom At 06:47 PM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote: > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM >in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I >really think it should work on any model. > > If there is a well known fix, disregard. After much searching the web >on this, all I ever found was "replace NVRAM chip" > >I will post the procedure here if anyone is interested. > >Brian. > > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Mar 29 18:51:33 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords In-Reply-To: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010329165133.009c0e80@192.168.42.129> At 18:47 29-03-2001 -0500, Brian wrote: > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM >in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I >really think it should work on any model. Let me guess: Pop the device in an EPROM programmer, dump it, and examine the contents? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 29 19:45:22 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords References: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> <002a01c0b8aa$c870a330$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3AC3E531.36DDAF17@heathers.stdio.com> Mike, Here is a link that will give you just about everything you need to know about the NVRAM. Also I remember there was a patch for older SUN's using Linux but it sounds like your battery is just dead. http://www.squirrel.com/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html Brian. Mike Kenzie wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Roth" > To: "Classic Computer" > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 6:47 PM > Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords > > > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords > in the NVRAM > > in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, > and IPC and I > > really think it should work on any model. > > > > If there is a well known fix, disregard. After much > searching the web > > on this, all I ever found was "replace NVRAM chip" > > > > I will post the procedure here if anyone is interested. > > My Sparc 1+ currently fails when booting linux. I get this > message: > > IDPROM: unknown format type! > program terminating > > Is there a way to by pass the PROM? > > The current PROM is a 525-1107-04 Can other sparc PROMS be > used as a replacement? > > A note of success, my latest Apple ][ plus seems to have a > z80 card inside and the previous owner has also added the > extra ram, and internal fan and a RF converter for TV. IT > still has the original packaging and the game paddles. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Mar 29 19:05:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:33 2005 Subject: D connector tirade In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Mar 29, 1 06:56:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 737 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010330/50ba6c98/attachment.ksh From RebelTerry at home.net Thu Mar 29 19:13:34 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: HP 9845 games web page Message-ID: <20010330011232.IYPG26203.femail11.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Okay, I whipped up a quick site for my HP 9845 stuff. It has scanned in screen shots from some of the games I wrote with a friend. If you're curious, check it out. http://www.sixstring.com/terry/hp9845/ I'm still hoping to find a working HP that can play these! Terry From fernande at internet1.net Thu Mar 29 19:14:01 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <3AC3DDD9.FA9531AA@internet1.net> Hello, Your doing better than I am! I found a cable with the mmj connectors, but am still not able to get anything on my vt320! I have a MicroVax 3400, and the "progress" code eventually goes to 1 (one). Any ideas? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Compusync wrote: > > Hi > Thanks for the information below. I was able to acquire the MMJ connector > and was able to get the VaxServer properly interfaced with the vt340...sort > of! > When I boot them up they start up as you described below without any > problem...but the keyboard does not seem to be able to make any input. The > keyboard seems to be in working order, since I can switch to setup mode, > using the "Setup" F3 key. But no other key will do anything. > > When the VAX complete the booting process I have the following screen: > > KA41-B V1.4 > F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. > > ? C 0080 0000.4001 > ?? 1 00C0 0011.700E > >>> [the cursor would be here] > > I believe this is an easy fix, (probably in setup)but obviously I am > clueless why I cannot get any input from the LK201 keyboard. > BTW: can you tell what operating system this is on? > > The VAX is VaxServer 3100 (says "series BAA 4B" on back). I opened it up and > found 3 hard drives > I am considering running OpenVMS freeware on this and was wondering what is > the upgrade paths to making this more effective: CD-ROM, Hard Drive, Memory. > It has an obsolete looking tape drive and one space for another internal > drive. > > Thanks for your help, it has been very useful thus far. > > Headley From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 29 19:59:21 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords References: <3.0.5.32.20010329182049.0089ee80@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3AC3E879.FB5ECBC7@heathers.stdio.com> Tom, Here it is in all its crudeness. I won't take any responsibility for personal or computer injury on this. 1. Make sure the Sparcstation is off and carefully remove the PROM-chip out of its socket. Gently push the chip back in its socket so it is only making slight contact on all the pins. 2. Turn the box back on and reach the point where it asks you to input the prom password. This could be at various stages depending on how the security is set. The last LX box I did, I hit the stop key and a key to put the machine into OpenBoot. I typed "b cdrom" and it then asked for the prom password. 3.Gently lift the chip out of the socket. 4. Hit enter and it should let you slide on by at this point. 5. Gently press the chip back into the socket and continue the install or if you continue to boot from the hard drive type "SETENV SECURITY-MODE=NONE twice. That should do it. Brian. Tom Uban wrote: > I am interested. Did you look at the documentation on the NetBSD web site? > > --tom > > At 06:47 PM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote: > > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM > >in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I > >really think it should work on any model. > > > > If there is a well known fix, disregard. After much searching the web > >on this, all I ever found was "replace NVRAM chip" > > > >I will post the procedure here if anyone is interested. > > > >Brian. > > > > > > From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Mar 29 20:09:49 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords References: <3.0.5.32.20010329165133.009c0e80@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3AC3EAED.E95E1A84@heathers.stdio.com> Oh man... Now I have to print up tee shirts? Bruce Lane wrote: > At 18:47 29-03-2001 -0500, Brian wrote: > > > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM > >in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I > >really think it should work on any model. > > Let me guess: Pop the device in an EPROM programmer, dump it, and examine > the contents? > > Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. ;-) > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 19:21:43 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords In-Reply-To: "Mike Kenzie" "Re: Sparcstation prom passwords" (Mar 29, 18:48) References: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> <002a01c0b8aa$c870a330$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <10103300221.ZM8331@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 18:48, Mike Kenzie wrote: > My Sparc 1+ currently fails when booting linux. I get this > message: > > IDPROM: unknown format type! > program terminating > > Is there a way to by pass the PROM? > > The current PROM is a 525-1107-04 Can other sparc PROMS be > used as a replacement? The IDPROM isn't a PROM, it's an NVRAM chip. I don't recognise that part number, the usual IDPROM for a Sparcstation 1+ is 525-1109-xxx. The NVRAM is an unusually tall 24-pin device with a barcode on the top (usually), and I think the number you quoted is the boot EPROM, which is quite a different thing. You could replace the IDPROM with one from another 1+, or read the Sun NVRAM FAQ about reprogramming one, but you can't just use one from a different type of motherboard as the type code would be wrong. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 18:53:45 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: List spammer ID'd" (Mar 29, 19:05) References: Message-ID: <10103300153.ZM8309@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 19:05, Tony Duell wrote: > I can't think of a 405-line only (as opposed to dual-standard 405/625 > switchable) portable with an isolated chassis (and presumably transistors > at least in the signal stages?). I don't suppose you can remember the > manufacturer, can you? Nope, I can't even remember the nationality :-) Maybe I'm remembering wronly about it being single-standard, but I don't think so. And I don't recall any transistors. I *think* it was isolated-chassis, but I also remember adding fairly high-voltage non-polar caps to the video input. About the only thing I can remember is that it was a wooden case with channel selector and ON/Volume (I think) on the top, and finished in tasteful dark green leatherette. Unfortunately I've nothing left from that set now -- the top few lines of the display were never very stable on the Sorcerer (partly my kludge and partly the Sorcerer's video signal not being quite right) so we parted company when I bought a proper monitor. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 19:31:36 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: SUN networking problems In-Reply-To: Arno Kletzander "SUN networking problems" (Mar 29, 7:50) References: <15495.985845017@www43.gmx.net> Message-ID: <10103300231.ZM8342@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 7:50, Arno Kletzander wrote: > Just typing in snoop at the prompt ends up with > snoop: Command not found. > In which subdirectory might this program be (if it's on the system at all), > or how can we search for it? If it isn't, where can one possibly get it? /usr/sbin/snoop on my Solaris systems -- but it might be elsewhere on an older system, and it's not installed by default. Alternative is tcpdump, which uses a library called libpcap. The home page for both is http://ee.lbl.gov/ or http://www.tcpdump.org/ , and they can be downloaded from ftp://ftp.ee.lbl.gov/ You'll need a decent C compiler -- which probably means gcc, as Sun stopped providing a compiler with the OS a long time ago. > The printer manual has surfaced, but it only contains the information that > the Ethernet card was an add-on and had its own Installation and Configuration > Guide with it - which must be buried even deeper than the manual itself if > we were given it at all On most of the Ethernet-enabled printers I've come across (mostly HPs, Lexmarks, and Xeroxes) you can do the setup from the front panel -- sometimes tedious, but usually not too hard to understand. > I guess the remaining problem is really the IP address of the printer, as > the data transfer between the computers and the printer must be all right by > now: Whenever a ping or something else occurs on the network, the orange DATA > LED on the printer's back side blinks a few times (what should indicate it is > receiving the data). A reasonable assumption. Have you tried printing out status pages? Sometimes that will show you things like IP address, protocols enabled, that sort of thing. Usually you can do it by holding down one of the buttons when you turn the power on. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Mar 29 18:56:00 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: AAUI In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: AAUI" (Mar 29, 19:07) References: Message-ID: <10103300156.ZM8313@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 29, 19:07, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Mar 29, 6:20, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > > > What is a DD50? I'm thinking of the connector used on PS/2s, which looks > > like > > > a small Centronics connector. > > > > DD50 is a large D-connector, twice as big as a DB25 :-) > > Not really. It isn't a super-long shell with only 2 rows of pins (which, > becuase of the offset between the rows would imply an odd number of pins > total). It has 3 rows of pins in a shell a little shorter (although > wider) than the DC shell (DC37, for example). Nitpicker! I know it has three rows, but it does occupy twice the area (near enough) :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Mar 29 19:52:30 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <42516029@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010329175116.03246dd0@mail.zipcon.net> There are ethernet to localtalk convertors out there, that should work for her, i think one was a gatorbox IIRC using the parallel port you could have the LWPro 600 off of a HP etherprint or equivilant At 11:32 AM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all, > >My mom has the following setup: > >- Beige G3 minitower >- Apple LaserWriter Pro 600 >- OS 9.1 > >The printer and Mac are connected via LocalTalk. (This printer requires >AppleTalk.) > >She is afraid that the next upgrade (OS X) will make the printer >unuseable, since Apple is phasing out LocalTalk (this Mac is the last >model that still comes with a damn serial port). > >The printer has no Ethernet capability, but it does have a parallel port >in addition to the LocalTalk port. > >The questions are: Is there any sort of hardware/software conversion kit >that would allow the Mac to use that parallel port if LocalTalk becomes >unavailable in the future? Does anyone have any experience with running OS >X and making it play nice with legacy hardware like this? Also, do they >still make LocalTalk PCI cards, and if so, is there any chance that the >drivers would work under OS X? This printer still works like new and she's >not ready to just chuck it and buy a new one. > >Sigh. Old hardware doesn't wear out fast enough to keep pace with new >software. ;) > >TIA, > >-- Marion "Still using a PowerComputing100 with a G3 upgrade card and OS >7.6.1 so I can run my $1200 1993 Apple Color OneScanner which is not as >good as today's lamest $79 USB scanner but it still works goddammit" Bates > From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Mar 29 19:55:37 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Sparcstation prom passwords In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010329182049.0089ee80@ubanproductions.com> References: <3AC3C98B.3278B6D4@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010329175416.00a0ab30@mail.zipcon.net> You mean to pull the NVRAM, boot, get to the prom monitor, reinsert the NVRAM do SETENV defaults do setenv security-mode=none something along those lines? At 06:20 PM 3/29/01 -0600, you wrote: >I am interested. Did you look at the documentation on the NetBSD web site? > >--tom > >At 06:47 PM 3/29/01 -0500, you wrote: > > I found a really easy way to get past the prom passwords in the NVRAM > >in SUN sparcstations. I have tried it on a Sparc LX,IPX, and IPC and I > >really think it should work on any model. > > > > If there is a well known fix, disregard. After much searching the web > >on this, all I ever found was "replace NVRAM chip" > > > >I will post the procedure here if anyone is interested. > > > >Brian. > > > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 29 21:05:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Mar 29, 1 02:22:44 pm" Message-ID: <200103300305.TAA13638@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I don't understand what the hell would be going on in 128MB of RAM. It > sickens, saddens, and depresses me. Don't give up hope, I'm still working on my Commodore web browser that fits into 31K of RAM (the rest is the hi-res screen, page buffer and swap space) :-) > I think I'm gonna go drink myself into a stupor now. As long as it's Mr Pibb :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes? -- Groucho Marx --------- From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Thu Mar 29 21:41:32 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010329224132.00fb51d4@obregon.multi.net.co> At 02:22 PM 3/29/01 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> >>Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are >> >>talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM >> >>required...(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) >> >Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in >> >this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? >> Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. >I don't understand what the hell would be going on in 128MB of RAM. It >sickens, saddens, and depresses me. I get depressed too. The message is: no matter what the hardware is, bill will winblow it into uselesness!! >I think I'm gonna go drink myself into a stupor now. I would do that too, but I am on some drug for amoebas that is not compatible with alcohol. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Thu Mar 29 21:59:43 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <20010329210719.41101.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3.0.2.32.20010329081906.00f7974c@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010329225943.00fb13f0@obregon.multi.net.co> At 01:07 PM 3/29/01 -0800, you wrote: >> Me, I could not possibly afford a laser printer...set up a ghostscript filter >> on my hp9000/735 and I can print in color postscript on my lowly deskjet695. > >Done that, too, but years after I got the HP. When I got the 4ML, ink jet >printers were much pricier than they are now. I think a decent one was >between $200-$350. >-ethan I think I started using ghostscript to render to printer on my 20MHz 286 back in '90 or so... I won't say the exact type of printer I had, but I used the "eps9high" device :-) . Printing was a tedious, noisy affair. But I was printing postscript . My setup included emtex, dvips, ghostscript, pcmatlab, msfortran, qbasic 4.5; it sufficed for most of my master's thesis :-) . The 286 had 4MB of memory with DIP and SIP sockets; I bought the parts from Jameco. I could avoid having to walk to the UW-Madison CAE facility at night when it was 10 below outside... -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Mar 29 22:40:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010329224132.00fb51d4@obregon.multi.net.co> from Carlos Murillo at "Mar 29, 1 10:41:32 pm" Message-ID: <200103300440.UAA13458@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I would do that too, but I am on some drug for amoebas that is > not compatible with alcohol. Ah, metronidazole, no doubt! Good stuff, makes you almost as sick as the parasites it's supposed to be killing. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Mar 29 23:19:07 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal In-Reply-To: <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010329210147.01e77030@208.226.86.10> At 10:24 AM 3/29/01 -0500, Compusync wrote: > Hi >Thanks for the information below. I was able to acquire the MMJ connector >and was able to get the VaxServer properly interfaced with the vt340...sort >of! Well you've made tremendous progress! > When I boot them up they start up as you described below without any >problem...but the keyboard does not seem to be able to make any input. The >keyboard seems to be in working order, since I can switch to setup mode, >using the "Setup" F3 key. But no other key will do anything. You need to make sure the communication parameters are set to 9600 baud, 8 data bits, one stop bit, and no parity. Also you should set the port to be "DEC-423, Data Leads Only" otherwise you might be running afoul of the flow control handshaking. >When the VAX complete the booting process I have the following screen: > >KA41-B V1.4 >F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. > >? C 0080 0000.4001 >?? 1 00C0 0011.700E > >>> [the cursor would be here] That's just telling you that you don't have a mouse hooked up and your network interface is not seeing carrier. Another thing to try is a different MMJ connector on the back. I know its silly but one one system I tried this was the problem. Got the power up tests but it wasn't the "real" console. >I believe this is an easy fix, (probably in setup)but obviously I am >clueless why I cannot get any input from the LK201 keyboard. >BTW: can you tell what operating system this is on? You're not at an operating system yet, so far your still in the bootrom/monitor. >The VAX is VaxServer 3100 (says "series BAA 4B" on back). I opened it up and >found 3 hard drives >I am considering running OpenVMS freeware on this and was wondering what is >the upgrade paths to making this more effective: CD-ROM, Hard Drive, Memory. >It has an obsolete looking tape drive and one space for another internal >drive. I just finished doing a full up install of VMS on a VS3100/M30 (KA42 rather than a KA41 but otherwise similar) and it has 8MB of RAM and two hard drives (RZ58's). It runs VMS very nicely single user and I'm setting up a budding young collector with it. The single best upgrade you can do to that system is to get a CD-ROM for it, either an internal mount or an external SCSI one. Once you crack the keyboard issue type 'show config' or 'Test 50' to the monitor and it will list out what is currently on the system. Other useful commands are 'show mem' to see how much memory is installed and 'show dev' to see what devices are there. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Mar 29 23:28:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal In-Reply-To: <3AC3DDD9.FA9531AA@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> At 08:14 PM 3/29/01 -0500, Chad wrote: >Your doing better than I am! I found a cable with the mmj connectors, >but am still not able to get anything on my vt320! I have a MicroVax >3400, and the "progress" code eventually goes to 1 (one). Any ideas? Can you be a bit more specific? Presumably your VT320 lights up the "VT320 OK" message after powering on and you can get into and out of SETUP using the F3 key on the keyboard right? If so make sure you communication settings are 9600 baud, 8 data bits, and one stop bit. *IMPORTANT* you need to go to the directory and select 'SAVE' and press the keypad enter key (the term will say "done") in order to keep the setting across power cycles. If you're VT320 has the RS232 option (this is indicated by a DB25 connector on the back) then make sure that it is set to DEC-423 as its communication port. Next be sure you're plugging into the port with the back to back arrows over it, not the printer port. Next go into setup and turn on local echo, then back out of setup and type on the keyboard and verify that the results show up on screen. Now hook up to the console port on the 3400, and set the panel to 'halt on break' mode (see my web page : for a picture of your front panel, there is a legend near the bottom of the page) Do you see the power on message? You should get a count down on the terminal and it should stop with the >>> prompt. If you don't see anything, then turn off the 3400 and remove the console panel (two captive screws do it) and look at the dial switch inside to verify that _it_ is set for 9600 baud and that the plug to the CPU card is correctly seated. At this point you will have something on the VT320 or you'll know what part of your system is broken :-) --Chuck From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Mar 30 02:46:30 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36115F@exch002.softwright.co.uk> > It's video, and the official designation is PITA-23. :-P ha ha - ditto on the DA26 my Xterm uses - trying to find a connector for that was impossible. Ended up soldering a PC VGA connector to the board via a short bit of cable and using that instead :-) What about the Sun monitor connectors with the embedded 3 connectors for RGB - do they still fall under the same D-type categorisation? cheers Jules From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Mar 30 04:04:14 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36115F@exch002.softwright. co.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010330020345.037f0b80@mail.zipcon.net> Nope, the Sun video connectors are called 13W3's. At 09:46 AM 3/30/01 +0100, you wrote: > > It's video, and the official designation is PITA-23. :-P > >ha ha - ditto on the DA26 my Xterm uses - trying to find a connector for >that was impossible. Ended up soldering a PC VGA connector to the board via >a short bit of cable and using that instead :-) > >What about the Sun monitor connectors with the embedded 3 connectors for RGB >- do they still fall under the same D-type categorisation? > >cheers > >Jules From optimus at canit.se Thu Mar 29 17:56:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <624.489T1050T564627optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>>Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are >>>talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM >>>required... >>>(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... >> >>Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in >>this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? >Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. Who bloody cares? And since when could you get 128MB SIMMs at 25$? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 06:43:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Ram Hogging (was Re: Apple LWPro parallel port?) In-Reply-To: <200103292253.PAA28050@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <1702.489T800T8234593optimus@canit.se> Jim Strickland skrev: > >Want a real modern OS that runs on anything above pentium 60 and does >useful work in 32 megs of RAM? check out BeOS >www.gobe.com > What a hog. =? >> >>Windows XP is coming out soon... But already in the tech news they are >> >>talking about how fast your computer must be and the least amount of RAM >> >>required... >> >>(P2-300 with 128MB RAM!) Which is *ALWAYS* understated... >> > >> >Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in >> >this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? >> >> Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. >The point is it's a symptom of very sloppy programming to use that much RAM. >Given that, it suggests it won't be very stable, either. Microsoft has >proven with every OS since the birth of Windows that they are incapable of >producing a stable, efficient, well designed OS. Even WinCE apparently >crashes frequently. I use BeOS as my stability benchmark, and it only goes >down when: >1. I shut it down. >2. Power Outages. >3. I get a misbehaving app that consumes my system resources and I shut > it down. >4. Hardware death. My Amiga crashes a whole lot. I don't think stability is imperative. Regard my lorry analogy. >I gave up on win95 2 years ago and while I miss the plethora of apps, I'll >never willingly go back. BeOS has most of the apps I actually *use*. While I'm impressed by BeOS, I've been lacking both the proper hardware (it's too thirsty!), and I'm not impressed by its constant change of platforms. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 06:37:25 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Age-old ethernet equipment In-Reply-To: <10103292349.ZM8071@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3405.489T1250T8174687optimus@canit.se> Pete Turnbull skrev: >On Mar 29, 15:40, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Pete Turnbull skrev: >> >On Mar 29, 6:39, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >Well, they would really all be the same network -- they'd be all one >> >collision domain (any packet or collision appearing on one port would be >> >seen on all the others. That's what a repeater does). >> >> True, but at least they will look like that and there won't be a dozen >> unused ports. >Yes, I see what you mean. You won't get any more bandwidth on any part of >the net, nor on the whole net, but you will have the advantage that it's >easier to isolate a fault if one occurs. And of course, extra >blinkenlights, which is always A Good Thing :-) I love walking into the darkened room only to be greeted by a row of sixteen red LEDs. It's a hub to scare other hubs. >> >> What management would be involved with a repeater? >> >> >Partitioning segments [...] Monitoring traffic levels [or] types >> >[...] Keeping a list of MAC addresses [...] setting [IP address] >> > or telling [the repeater] to use bootp/dhcp) or upgrade >> >the firmware, or set passwords. >> >> That monitoring seems interesting. >If you think so, find out about SNMP (Simple Network Management Protocol) >and possibly RMON. Sadly, no-one seems to have bothered porting an SNMP package for the Amiga. =/ >If you have Windows, look for the SNMP service which is buried in one of >the subdirectories on your CD; it includes "snmputil" which you can use to >retrieve or set information (but beware if you install it on an >Internet-accessible machine as it makes a lot of things available to remote >enquirers and has a lot of security problems). I haven't got Windows. =) >If you have Linux, look on the net for UCD SNMP (which has some command >line utilities) and SNMPY or SCOTTY. There's also gxsnmp but it's only in >an early stage of development. I found UCD SNMP in the NetBSD package collection, so I suppose I'll employ that. >For a bit of fun, take a look at Netcool (expensive!) or MRTG (free!). > There's lots more, but that'll give you some idea. >http://rak.isternet.sk/linux-netman/snmp.html is a reasonable place to >start. Thank you. >> >> IOW it's just a glorified OFF switch. =) >> >> >Partitioning, is, yes. Segmenting isn't, it's just a way of making one >> >big(ish) hub do the job of a few smaller ones. >> >> I was rather hoping it had that ability. >Segementing? Not many repeaters do, especially old ones, as it needs a >fair amount of extra electronics. Basically it's done by a crossbar >switch, which is inside one large ASIC in modern repeaters that provide it. >The most common form of segmenting in hubs is in dual-speed (10/100baseT) >hubs; what they really do is segment the ports into a 10baseT segment and a >100baseT segement, with a little store-and-forward switch in between. We haven't got any 100Mb equipment, but since there's a half-dozen of game PCs leaking junk onto the net, I thought it might be nice with some peace and quiet on our end. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Also,what would a game about pimps be without Pimp Gear(tm)? As you move up in the world,you'll be able to buy new clothes,upgrade your car,and upgrade your appearance. Girls that wouldn't give you the time of day before might be swayed more easily when you've got some cash to throw around. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 06:50:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade In-Reply-To: <200103292316.QAA28154@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <721.489T2550T8306515optimus@canit.se> Jim Strickland skrev: >> Pain-in-the-arse-23? >> Why? I find the Amiga video connector to be the most versatile I've ever >> encountered. It's got both analogue and digital video as well as pins for >> genlock, clocks, three kinds of sync, lots of DC and ground. >Mmm. Question. Is there any (safe) way to wire the 23 pin video connector >on an Amiga to the cm/y/k inputs on a 1085 line HDTV? :) You'd have to find some way to generate complement colours out of the RGB, then, and don't ask me how to force it into outputting 1085 lines... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 06:53:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <200103292322.PAA13738@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <1108.489T2850T8336315optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> >It's video, and the official designation is PITA-23. :-P >> >> Pain-in-the-arse-23? >> Why? I find the Amiga video connector to be the most versatile I've ever >> encountered. It's got both analogue and digital video as well as pins for >> genlock, clocks, three kinds of sync, lots of DC and ground. >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people >stock DB23 connectors. Surely it can't be more uncommon than just about every other non-VGA connector. At least my local electronics shop has got D23 connectors while 3W3 and 13W3 have to be specifically ordered. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Take a ride / Take me aside / Push me up to the life /?Down to Prag / We go far /?I guess we'll crash slowly into tar When I come home from the trench /?I telephone my friends / We take a car / We may go far / I guess we'll crash slowly into tar Strangers will come /?Hold on... And late at night / we go to clubs /?where no one else is dressed up / And when it's done / I must return /?I guess we'll crash slowly into tar Crash Slowly - Strasse, 1981 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 30 05:51:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <20010329220953.45624.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >--- Mike Ford wrote: >> BTW I have many of the little ethernet to localtalk boxes, price varies >> from $15 to $30 dependingon the flavor. > >I take it you resolved the issue of ROM code, driver software, etc. I still >have that Fastpath4 sitting idle, waiting for the chance to put it to use. > >Any pointers on how to get it up and active? RTFM ;) The FastPath is the most powerfull of the boxes that I know of, supporting the bridging of a complete localtalk LAN to a ethernet network, with both Appletalk and TCP/IP support among other features. You have to spend some time with the documentation from the FTP site. I haven't done it myself, and it clearly has a bit of a curve to it, so I don't recommend it to the casual user. If you want to support some IIgs Apples, or use the TCP/IP encapsulation, there are few other options. For just a printer something like the AsantePrint or DaynaPrint is a better option. Farallon stuff is also very nice, but does carry a bit of a premium mostly due to the etherwave convience (allows daisychain connection without another hub port). Shiva bought Kinetics, Intel bought Shiva, but many support files still exist at ftp://ftp.shiva.com/distrib/older/ Personally I recommend downloading EVERYTHING, read some of the support docs, then look around the Intel site for anything else you can find related. Anybody know some good network books that include setting up the FastPath or other router type boxes? Much of what seems very hard to me personally I think is just my general lack of network specifics. If you have some network admin experience my guess is that its a lot more of just fill in the boxes, where for me its what the heck is that box. A few things I have learned. The administrator software is a bit fussy about which OS and network software the mac it runs on is using. OS 7.0 I think is too early, or needs something added, and open transport is too new. Once the FastPath is configured though, its a pure network device, ie it doesn't give a rats opinion on what is using the network, everything is just addresses, zones, nodes, etc. so no special software is required on any of the machines on the network EXCEPT for a mac to run the admin on and make changes. When I get it sorted out on my own, I do plan to write up what I learn for a basic configuration. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 30 06:42:28 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <624.489T1050T564627optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. > >Who bloody cares? And since when could you get 128MB SIMMs at 25$? Take a look on any price search engine, ie http://www.pricewatch.com/ and you will find plenty of sources of lifetime warranty PC133 256 MB modules for less than $50. From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Mar 30 07:07:43 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Amiga questions Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36116C@exch002.softwright.co.uk> a few A1200 Amiga questions (do they hit the 10 year limit? I know I got my A500 in the early 90's, and I think A3000's were around then, right??)... Anyway, here goes: Do all 1200's come with built in IDE hard drive controllers - or did commodore do things on the cheap and only add controllers for machines shipped with drives (I'm assuming the controller lives on the main board itself)? Will the 1200 accept any size (capacity) drive? Or wasn't the OS / ROM code hard-drive aware and cheated by making the drive look like a big floppy (I'm sure there were systems which did this, but I can't remember if the amiga was one of them)? Presumably 2.5 drives are the preferred method - but there's nothing to stop 3.5" IDE drives being used with a suitable adpator (OK that's actually an IDe question - I think it's just the connectors that differ between them though, right?) On the hardware side of things, someone said the 1200's IDE controller is basically unbuffered I/O straight to the CPU (which sounds possible certainly with IDE) and so it's real easy to toast things - is that true? What are the options of networking a '1200 (ideally TCP/IP stack on the Amiga, using SLIP or something to a Unix box maybe? Are there things around that allow this, with NFS mounting of drives for data copying?) Can PC SVGA multisync monitors be used with the 1200, or won't the monitor sync to a low enough frequency for the Amiga (seem to remember that was the problem with the 500, not sure if the 1200 has any sort of 'fix' for this on the Amiga side though) Having seen how cheap 1200's are these days, and having a pile of spare IDE drives lying around (both 3.5 and 2.5) I'm quite keen to get a 1200 to put Deluxe Paint on - it's still far better than any art package I've seen on modern systems despite being ancient by modern software standards! I can't be bothered using my old A500 for this though - too slow and too painful without a hard disk... directions to an Amiga FAQ that may answer some or all of the above would be most useful too! :-) cheers! Jules From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 30 07:34:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Amiga questions Message-ID: <01Mar30.084157est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >a few A1200 Amiga questions (do they hit the 10 year limit? I know I got my >A500 in the early 90's, and I think A3000's were around then, right??)... If I remember the dates correctly, the A500 was introduced in '87 as a companion to the A2000 and the A3000 arrived on the scene in either '90 or '91 with the A1200 in '93. >Do all 1200's come with built in IDE hard drive controllers - or did >commodore do things on the cheap and only add controllers for machines >shipped with drives (I'm assuming the controller lives on the main board >itself)? Yes, the A1200 has built-in IDE >Will the 1200 accept any size (capacity) drive? I've used drives up to 4+ gig on both SCSI and IDE equipped Amiga's without a problem. >What are the options of networking a '1200 (ideally TCP/IP stack on the >Amiga, using SLIP or something to a Unix box maybe? Are there things around >that allow this, with NFS mounting of drives for data copying?) Both Miami and Termite are good TCP/IP stacks that work with either ethernet or dialup connections. I'm not sure about the mounting of a NFS drive, but given how extensible the Amiga file system is, I'd hazard a guess that it is likely possible. >Can PC SVGA multisync monitors be used with the 1200, or won't the monitor >sync to a low enough frequency for the Amiga (seem to remember that was the >problem with the 500, not sure if the 1200 has any sort of 'fix' for this on >the Amiga side though) IF the monitor syncs down to ~15 khz it will work fine with the A1200 without any kind of scan doubler. Even the A4000 didn't fix this compatibility with SVGA multisync monitors....for some reason only the A3000 did. Jeff From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 30 08:37:56 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <1108.489T2850T8336315optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Mar 30, 1 01:53:57 pm" Message-ID: <200103301437.GAA11690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people > >stock DB23 connectors. > > Surely it can't be more uncommon than just about every other non-VGA > connector. At least my local electronics shop has got D23 connectors while 3W3 > and 13W3 have to be specifically ordered. You're lucky. Not even the local Fry's carries them. I have to special order them at exorbitant prices. For that matter, I haven't seen any 13w3 cables at the local Fry's either. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. --------------- From mtapley at swri.edu Fri Mar 30 08:46:44 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (NeXT mono monitor cables?) Message-ID: >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:55:31 -0800 (PST) >From: "Eric J. Korpela" >Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > >The standard options I'm aware of are: >DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, >and the occasional 2DE-19 and 2DB-52. Those 19 pin "D style" connectors >that Apple, Atari & NeXT were so fond of don't really count because >they were really just an attempt to force people to buy branded >products. This has been bugging me for a while. NeXT mono monitor cables have a D connector with 19 pins at either end. They are (apparently) in pretty short supply relative to mono NeXT systems. Does anyone know the real designation for those connectors, and whether it's practical to think about building substitute cables? I'm still worried that this issue may become particularly relevant Sunday evening when Curt unloads his $1k stack of NeXT systems. - Mark From edick at idcomm.com Thu Mar 29 13:29:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. References: Message-ID: <000001c0b92b$60c30620$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you're after something more general than a divide-by-two, you might want to consider a "rate multiplier" of one sort or another. These are multistage divide-by-n devices, though they may not, in the usual TTL form, work at the rates you need. If you do a little reading, the clock generation problem has been very well treated over the past decade, with a variety of phase-locked oscillators that use the 14.318 MHz oscillator present on most PC motherboards and multiplying them up to the multiple-hundreds or multiple phases of 66 MHz or whatever, that they feed to the processor in question. Some of them are so totally encapsulated and digitally controllable, that you need very few external passives to make them work. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:50 AM Subject: Re: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. > > > > Hi all, > > > > Doesn't make sense to buy single TTL oscillator while I have > > lots of other osc chips that has compatiable frequencies that I can > > divide down. > > > > A computer needs 12.5 MHz TTL oscillator to clock that '040 at 25MHz. > > Right now that motherboard uses 10MHz OSC nearby for a bogus 'LC040 > > 20MHz and have a real '040-25 coming in to swap out that fpu-less > > chip and bump up that MHz. That motherboard is *exact* same board > > used in 20 and 25, 40 and 50MHz Macs including one low end Mac > > server. (!!) > > > > What is proper way to build up a reliable divide down TTL or > > cmos circuit output just with 5V and ground and a oscillator? Say, I > > divide 25 by 2 or 50 by 4 to get 12.5MHz. > > > The simplest circuit is to use a D-type flip-flop (say half of a 74F74 in > this case). Link S/ and R/ high (through a 1K resistor if you are a > purist), link D to Q/ and feed the input to CLK. Then take the output > from Q. > > Don't forget a decoupling capacitor (0.1uF ceramic) between Vcc and > Ground close to the chip. > > A single 74F74 can make 2 of these circuits, which you can cascade (link > Q of the first one to CLK of the second one) to make a divide-by-4 > > You can also use a JK flip-flop (something like a half a 74F112 if you > can find one) with J and K both tied high (or pulled high via a 1K > resistor). Again, tie S/ and R/ high, feed the input to CLK, and take the > output from Q. > > You can cascade those in the same way. And they need the 0.1uF decoupling > capacitor. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 30 09:24:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: Message-ID: <003c01c0b92d$73f86760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The origitnal concept underlying this designiation scheme was based on the notion that you had the 'D' for the shape, the for the shell sizes that were in use at the time, 'E' and beyond coming later. and a number for the number of POPULATED pin locations. This notion didn't catch on, however, and I think few of us will remember references to DB3 or the like, DB3 being the 'B' shell with pins 2, 3, and 7 populated, though that was a common configuration. I remember looking for such references and really can't say I ever ran in to any. I do remember the description in a parts catalog, however, though I don't remember whether it was CANNON or APHENOL, or what. If people would use this method, it would be quite clear, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > > > >> What is the purpose of the DB-9 connector? > > > My old SynOptics 2813 hubs have a DA9 as well, and it's some odd > > > > I'm going to pop in and point out a pet peeve of mine. The letter > > It's a pet peeve of mine too (especially when somebody claims that > there's no such thing as a DE9, and that the connector on their mouse is > a DB9). > > > following the D in a D-sub connector is the shell size. > > > > The standard options I'm aware of are: > > DE-9, DA-15, DB-25, DC-37, DD-50, DE-15, DA-26, DB-44, DC-62, DE-78, > > You must mean DD78 (I don't even want to think about cramming 78 pins > into a size E shell :-)) > > > and the occasional 2DE-19 and 2DB-52. Those 19 pin "D style" connectors > > that Apple, Atari & NeXT were so fond of don't really count because > > they were really just an attempt to force people to buy branded > > products. > > I've seen the Apple disk drive connector refered to as a DF19. And a DG23 > for the Amiga video connector. I don't think those names are in any way > official, but they do make some sort of sense > > > > > It's quite possible that someone made a DB-9 or a DA-9. If they did, > > A friend of mine suggested that a DB9 should be the name for a DB25 > connector with only pins 1-8 and 20 fitted :-). This was a common > connector on RS232 cables at one time (particularly ones made with > crimp-on pins). > > No, I don't much care for that idea, but again, it has a certain logic to it. > > -tony > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 09:24:31 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <01Mar29.121046est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010330152431.57608.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > There was also the Emplant Deluxe with it's Localtalk ports, which I > used to connect my A4000 up to various Mac's. I never ran it as the Emplant > emulator but as a hardware extension of Shapeshifter's emulation. I had the A-Max II+ card (an upgrade from my A-Max cart). It had a floppy mauler that sat between the Amiga drive and the Amiga motherboard that did the speed things to the disk motor to allow a fairly standard drive to read/write 400K and 800K disks (I continued to use my A-Max cart with a real external Mac drive to save wear and tear on my expensive 1760K Amiga half-speed, high-density disk drives). It also had a Z8530 and a couple of Mac serial ports and did let me use my HP 4ML from an emulated Mac session. My mother had a typesetting/word processing shop near the university with Macs (Mac SE w/4Mb RAM + 18Mb disk was her _best_ machine); I did my desktop publishing from an Amiga 3000, but under A-Max so I could migrate stuff back and forth. I've used the A-Max II card w/A-Max and Shapeshifter. In fact, I got my license for Shapeshifter by procuring a Z8530 manual for the author. He was having problems locating one and I had a spare. I loved Shapeshifter for the fact that it worked with Amiga Ethernet cards. I gave a demo of my A3000 at work once - A-Mosaic running on AmigaDOS while using Apple File Sharing to access a Quadra 950 under the next desk. Only one OS could have a TCP/IP stack loaded at a time, though; so I had to bring down AmiTCP to use Netscape on the emulated Mac. Big fun. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 30 09:28:32 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: <20010329221123.84390.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004601c0b92e$14318e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, and the "female" was called a DsnS (S for socket) where s was shell-size and n was for populated number of pins, and P/S for gender. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 3:11 PM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > --- "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > ...So now what I wonder is what's the designation for the 23-pin D-sub > > connector used for RGB on the Amiga 500? (or was it the disk drive? I don't > > rememeber) > > Both. One female and one male. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Mar 30 09:33:02 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (NeXT mono monitor cables?) In-Reply-To: from Mark Tapley at "Mar 30, 1 08:46:44 am" Message-ID: <200103301533.HAA16762@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'm still worried that this issue may become particularly relevant > Sunday evening when Curt unloads his $1k stack of NeXT systems. Did he post the reservation list? (Curt?) I don't know if my "reservation" got registered. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The best of all: God is with us. -- John Wesley ---------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 30 09:34:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: <200103301437.GAA11690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <005a01c0b92e$f974f600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Finding appropriate cabling for our various hardware oddities would be easier, indeed, if folks could just get the nomenclature straight. After all, given that the price of the cable, or the necessary components, is going to be painfully high, it would be comforting to know that one had specified the components correctly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people > > >stock DB23 connectors. > > > > Surely it can't be more uncommon than just about every other non-VGA > > connector. At least my local electronics shop has got D23 connectors while 3W3 > > and 13W3 have to be specifically ordered. > > You're lucky. Not even the local Fry's carries them. I have to special order > them at exorbitant prices. For that matter, I haven't seen any 13w3 cables > at the local Fry's either. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. --------------- > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 30 09:39:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) References: Message-ID: <007201c0b92f$97bfba20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, if the purpose of the crystal + (what we used was a safety-pin) is to function as a diode, then is it still a crystal radio if a diode is used instead? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) > > > > When I built mine, we (the CubScout pack) used toilet paper roll cores which we > > varnished and then applied our magnet wire. We even went rock hunting to find > > galena crystals to use. I don't remember any sort of diode ... there could've > > been one, though ... that was nearly 50 years ago, after all. > > The galena + catswhisker is a (poor-quality) diode. > > My suggestion to use a ready-made diode (in the UK I'd use something like > an OA81) is that you know that diode is good. You can then wind the coil > and wire up the rest of the set, knowing that if it doesn't work the > problem is not due to the fact you've not found a spot of the right > impurities in the crystal. When you've got it working, you can then swap > the diode for the crystal and catswhisker, knowing that if it doesn't > work the problem is with that. > > Otherwise there are too many variables IMHO. > > -tony > > From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 10:44:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Amiga questions In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36116C@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <3718.489T900T10644565optimus@canit.se> Julian Richardson skrev: >a few A1200 Amiga questions (do they hit the 10 year limit? I know I got my >A500 in the early 90's, and I think A3000's were around then, right??)... The A1200 was released around christmas '92, so it's OT. The A3000 is 1990 vintage, though. >Anyway, here goes: >Do all 1200's come with built in IDE hard drive controllers - or did >commodore do things on the cheap and only add controllers for machines >shipped with drives (I'm assuming the controller lives on the main board >itself)? Nope, all have controllers. >Will the 1200 accept any size (capacity) drive? Or wasn't the OS / ROM code >hard-drive aware and cheated by making the drive look like a big floppy (I'm >sure there were systems which did this, but I can't remember if the amiga >was one of them)? Definitely no such trickery. The only odd thing is that the IDE interface is masquerading as scsi.device. The OS will be most content with drives below four GB. This has been remedied in versions 3.5 and onwards, but you're most likely running OS 3.0. This may be patched nevertheless, I'm running a 20GB drive on a 3.0 system myself. >Presumably 2.5 drives are the preferred method - but there's nothing to stop >3.5" IDE drives being used with a suitable adpator (OK that's actually an >IDe question - I think it's just the connectors that differ between them >though, right?) There is not a lot of space. Try to get as slim a drive as possible if you're intending to use a 3,5" drive. You may have to cut away a bit of the shielding, too. >On the hardware side of things, someone said the 1200's IDE controller is >basically unbuffered I/O straight to the CPU (which sounds possible >certainly with IDE) and so it's real easy to toast things - is that true? AFAIK, it's unbuffered, but how would you go about frying anything? >What are the options of networking a '1200 (ideally TCP/IP stack on the >Amiga, using SLIP or something to a Unix box maybe? Are there things around >that allow this, with NFS mounting of drives for data copying?) Certainly. You could use SLIP, but the better route would be an NE2000 compatible PCMCIA network card. I use a CNet card in my A1200, and AmiTCP (bundled with OS 3.9), otherwise available as a demo on Aminet or for online purchase through vapor.com, which includes an NFS client. I run an NFS server on my 4000, too, so that my NetBSD machine might easily download things in the file archive. >Can PC SVGA multisync monitors be used with the 1200, or won't the monitor >sync to a low enough frequency for the Amiga (seem to remember that was the >problem with the 500, not sure if the 1200 has any sort of 'fix' for this on >the Amiga side though) Most PC SVGA monitors won't sync low enough (15 KHz) for games, but they will most probably run if you stick to applications. Just make sure to activate VGA-friendly modes such as Multiscan, DoubleNTSC, DoublePAL and Euro72. They're activated by being moved to DEVS:Monitors/ , and are otherwise stored in Monitors/ on your Storage disk. You may possible have to copy VGAOnly to DEVS:Monitors, or was it into WBStartup/ ? >Having seen how cheap 1200's are these days, and having a pile of spare IDE >drives lying around (both 3.5 and 2.5) I'm quite keen to get a 1200 to put >Deluxe Paint on - it's still far better than any art package I've seen on >modern systems despite being ancient by modern software standards! I can't >be bothered using my old A500 for this though - too slow and too painful >without a hard disk... You should try Personal Paint, too. I find it a more than worthy successor to DPaint, and it's free on Aminet. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ %blow bash: fg: %blow: no such job From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Mar 30 10:10:46 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) (Richard Erlacher) References: <007201c0b92f$97bfba20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15044.45062.974867.295404@phaduka.neurotica.com> Sure, albeit a less "authentic" one. I've always heard that germanium diodes are better for this (does this have something to do with their forward voltage drop of 0.3V vs. silicon's 0.7V?)...like the venerable 1N34A. -Dave McGuire On March 30, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well, if the purpose of the crystal + (what we used was a safety-pin) is to > function as a diode, then is it still a crystal radio if a diode is used > instead? > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) > > > > > > > > When I built mine, we (the CubScout pack) used toilet paper roll cores which > we > > > varnished and then applied our magnet wire. We even went rock hunting to > find > > > galena crystals to use. I don't remember any sort of diode ... there > could've > > > been one, though ... that was nearly 50 years ago, after all. > > > > The galena + catswhisker is a (poor-quality) diode. > > > > My suggestion to use a ready-made diode (in the UK I'd use something like > > an OA81) is that you know that diode is good. You can then wind the coil > > and wire up the rest of the set, knowing that if it doesn't work the > > problem is not due to the fact you've not found a spot of the right > > impurities in the crystal. When you've got it working, you can then swap > > the diode for the crystal and catswhisker, knowing that if it doesn't > > work the problem is with that. > > > > Otherwise there are too many variables IMHO. > > > > -tony > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 30 10:34:32 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <10103280828.ZM6105@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330102944.00d9dbd0@pc> At 06:08 AM 3/28/01 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote: >So did mine, but my father built a real crystal set in the 1940's. Somewhere, >I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section >of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use >as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? The mineral is "galena", a lead ore that apparently had enough interesting impurities to semi-conduct depending on where the whisker floated. In SW Wisconsin, you can find it on the ground. Raw, it's dull grey. It cleaves easily to expose shiny surfaces. - John From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Fri Mar 30 10:44:59 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) Message-ID: > > Sure, albeit a less "authentic" one. I've always heard that >germanium diodes are better for this (does this have something to do >with their forward voltage drop of 0.3V vs. silicon's 0.7V?)...like >the venerable 1N34A. > > -Dave McGuire > Yes... A silicon diode will require a stronger signal to overcome the .7 volt threshold. Since we've already violated the purist aspects by using a semiconductor diode, you could use a battery to apply a forward bias to the diode. In this model, the signal doesn't need to overcome the entire .7 volt forward bias voltage and makes a radio that is MUCH more sensitive. Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 30 11:34:56 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <200103292322.PAA13738@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <800.489T2250T75507optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330113227.00b897b0@pc> At 03:22 PM 3/29/01 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people >stock DB23 connectors. Has the world forgotten how to hack-saw two pins/sockets off a regular -25? :-) - John From elvey at hal.com Fri Mar 30 11:58:23 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200103301758.f2UHwNn14433@civic.hal.com> "Steve Robertson" wrote: > > > > Sure, albeit a less "authentic" one. I've always heard that > >germanium diodes are better for this (does this have something to do > >with their forward voltage drop of 0.3V vs. silicon's 0.7V?)...like > >the venerable 1N34A. > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > Yes... A silicon diode will require a stronger signal to overcome the .7 > volt threshold. > > Since we've already violated the purist aspects by using a semiconductor > diode, you could use a battery to apply a forward bias to the diode. In this > model, the signal doesn't need to overcome the entire .7 volt forward bias > voltage and makes a radio that is MUCH more sensitive. > Hi All should take a look at this site: http://uweb.superlink.net/bhtongue/ He goes quite a bit into the issues of the "diode knee". He talks quite a bit about matching of impedences. An unbiased diode has a quite high impedence. Slightly forward biasing the diode can make a better match since one can tap off the tank circuit at a better match. One can work backwards from the head set to the crystal and then to the tank coil. There is another type of diode that might even be better. They are called back-diodes. These are designed with a vary low zener voltage. The idea is that the zener can have a much sharper edge than the log based forward diode. Dwight From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 30 11:54:44 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: <624.489T1050T564627optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330115309.00d6f830@pc> 128M is sick? It's not just an OS, it's an OS plus who knows what. You might as well rail about the price of electricity... a newer computer probably sucks less juice than a classic. Which do you want to run all day? - John From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Mar 30 12:36:36 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330115309.00d6f830@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 30, 01 11:54:44 am Message-ID: <200103301836.NAA13033@wordstock.com> > > > 128M is sick? It's not just an OS, it's an OS plus who knows what. > You might as well rail about the price of electricity... a newer > computer probably sucks less juice than a classic. Which do you > want to run all day? > IMHO the only classics that would use more power would be the VAXs etc. C64s, Apple IIs, Atari 2600s would take a lot less power then a PC with 128 MB RAM, PIII-500, hard drives, CD-Writers, 3D graphics card (with its own cooling fan and 64 MB RAM)... Bryan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 12:27:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:34 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <007201c0b92f$97bfba20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 30, 1 08:39:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1207 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010330/f3249193/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 12:15:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: <10103300153.ZM8309@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 30, 1 00:53:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2179 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010330/1bb8fe75/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 12:22:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <003c01c0b92d$73f86760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 30, 1 08:24:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 923 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010330/04d665fe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 12:08:41 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. In-Reply-To: <000001c0b92b$60c30620$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 29, 1 12:29:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 976 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010330/963669f5/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 30 13:01:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103301836.NAA13033@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <01Mar30.140924est.119051@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > IMHO the only classics that would use more power would be the VAXs etc. > C64s, Apple IIs, Atari 2600s would take a lot less power then a PC with > 128 MB RAM, PIII-500, hard drives, CD-Writers, 3D graphics card (with > its > own cooling fan and 64 MB RAM)... That may be true for PC's where the CPU draws upwards of 40 watts on it's own but G3/G4 Mac's are a different story since the CPU tends to draw considerably less, in the area of 17 watts. Plus, for the classic consoles you name above, you'd have to factor in the television set used for the display which, if it's an older set of a similar vintage, would draw a decent amount as well. Of course, my MicroVAX II makes a nice space heater when it's powered on and all it's fans are running! Jeff From cmcmanis at freegate.com Fri Mar 30 13:13:35 2001 From: cmcmanis at freegate.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Well I'm pleased with myself :-) Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010330110850.02c259a0@208.226.86.129> I recognized a CRT tube at the local surplus place (R@RE NEW IN BOX! :-) that looked like the CRT from a VT320 and I bought it ($2.14 including tax), took it home and opened up my worst VT320 (this is one I had already tweaked the internal "brightness control" so that I had enough raster to see it) and sure enough, same Phillips part number. So I carefully disassembled the VT320, removed the old tube, put in the replacement tube, and voila` a nice bright VT320 with no screen burn at all. Alas it was yet another amber tube, I really wish I could find some green tubes which I prefer. Anyway, yet another piece of classic equipment, brought back into peak operating efficiency. --Chuck From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Mar 30 13:13:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) (Tony Duell) References: <007201c0b92f$97bfba20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <15044.56051.764773.548271@phaduka.neurotica.com> On March 30, Tony Duell wrote: > IMHO yes. Not the _original_ type, but a crystal set none-the-less. It > uses equivalent components in the same circuit. And some germanium diodes > (at least over here) appear to have a crystal and catswhisker in them. Same over here...some silicon diodes as well. That's a point-contact electrode for the anode if memory serves. > Some old service manuals (I am showing my age now), used CRxx as a > designation for 'semiconductor diode' in the parts lists and schematics. > I always assumed CR stood for Crystal Rectifier. CR does indeed stand for Crystal Rectifier. At least in the stuff I've seen over here.. -Dave McGuire From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 13:19:20 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Amiga questions In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36116C@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010330191920.96816.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julian Richardson wrote: > Do all 1200's come with built in IDE hard drive controllers - or did > commodore do things on the cheap and only add controllers for machines > shipped with drives (I'm assuming the controller lives on the main board > itself)? AFAIK, yes. The A600 was available with and without drives and ISTR the ROMs were different, but I've owned just about every other model than that and can't comment from personal experience. > Will the 1200 accept any size (capacity) drive? Or wasn't the OS / ROM code > hard-drive aware and cheated by making the drive look like a big floppy (I'm > sure there were systems which did this, but I can't remember if the amiga > was one of them)? There are no inbuilt _intentional_ (i.e., marketing driven) size limitations beyond the usual sorts of things one gets trying to bolt a drive onto a ten- year-old system that never conceived of a monsterous storage device. I think there is a general 4Gb limit on disks, SCSI or IDE. I know there is an issue with the FFS and number of blocks in the device. I have personally never put anything over 4Gb on an Amiga, but have had lots of luck with 20Mb on up to 1Gb. > Presumably 2.5 drives are the preferred method - but there's nothing to stop > 3.5" IDE drives being used with a suitable adpator (OK that's actually an > IDe question - I think it's just the connectors that differ between them > though, right?) The 2.5" connector provides power as well as data. If you address that issue, yes, you can use an adapter to hook a 3.5" device (or 5.25", like a CD-ROM) to your A1200. > On the hardware side of things, someone said the 1200's IDE controller is > basically unbuffered I/O straight to the CPU (which sounds possible > certainly with IDE) and so it's real easy to toast things - is that true? It's true. In general, IDE tends to be a fairly raw interface, although as machines have evolved, it's not as raw as back in the 386 days. > What are the options of networking a '1200 (ideally TCP/IP stack on the > Amiga, using SLIP or something to a Unix box maybe? Are there things around > that allow this, with NFS mounting of drives for data copying?) Since I've never owned as 1200, I can't speak to the myriad of hardware options, but there are TCP/IP stacks for AmigaDOS and clients such as NFS clients, Web Browsers, Samba servers. If you want the storage on the UNIX box to be accessible by the Amiga, NFS is a good way to go. If you want the other way around, Samba fits the bill. I do not know if there is a freeware implementation of NFS Server for AmigaDOS (there was at least one commercial one) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Mar 30 13:23:47 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd)" (Mar 30, 8:39) References: <007201c0b92f$97bfba20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10103302023.ZM8877@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 30, 8:39, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Well, if the purpose of the crystal + (what we used was a safety-pin) is to > function as a diode, then is it still a crystal radio if a diode is used > instead? Sure. Early germanium diodes are point-contact devices made using a small crystal of germanium. I've not tried it, but I imagine a modern Schottky diode would be a good replacement. Some of them have an even lower voltage drop than normal germanium diodes, so the set would be a little more sensitive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Mar 30 13:32:19 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Well I'm pleased with myself :-) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010330110850.02c259a0@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: Sounds like the ultimate match....... Sure is nice when two or more old parts of a computer can be combined to produce a nice new looking machine! Now all I need to find is boot diskettes for my OSI C4P.. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I recognized a CRT tube at the local surplus place (R@RE NEW IN BOX! :-) > that looked like the CRT from a VT320 and I bought it ($2.14 including > tax), took it home and opened up my worst VT320 (this is one I had already > tweaked the internal "brightness control" so that I had enough raster to > see it) and sure enough, same Phillips part number. So I carefully > disassembled the VT320, removed the old tube, put in the replacement tube, > and voila` a nice bright VT320 with no screen burn at all. Alas it was yet > another amber tube, I really wish I could find some green tubes which I prefer. > > Anyway, yet another piece of classic equipment, brought back into peak > operating efficiency. > > --Chuck > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Mar 30 13:27:32 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: FastPath (was Re: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010330192732.5433.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >--- Mike Ford wrote: > > > >I take it you resolved the issue of ROM code, driver software, etc. I still > >have that Fastpath4 sitting idle, waiting for the chance to put it to use. > > > >Any pointers on how to get it up and active? > > RTFM ;) Love to. Need the FM. > The FastPath is the most powerfull of the boxes that I know of, supporting > the bridging of a complete localtalk LAN to a ethernet network, with both > Appletalk and TCP/IP support among other features. Perfect. > You have to spend some time with the documentation from the FTP site. > I haven't done it myself, and it clearly has a bit of a curve to it, so I > don't recommend it to the casual user. If you want to support some IIgs > Apples, or use the TCP/IP encapsulation, there are few other options. I am not a casual user, so I plan to plough ahead. I do have a IIgs now (I didn't when I first got the FastPath), so I'd probably want to consider those options. > For just a printer something like the AsantePrint or DaynaPrint is a better > option. Farallon stuff is also very nice, but does carry a bit of a premium > mostly due to the etherwave convience (allows daisychain connection without > another hub port). Hmm... $10 (already spent) and some work vs $100 and less work... I'll take "Bridges for $10", Alex. :-) > Shiva bought Kinetics, Intel bought Shiva, but many support files still > exist at > > ftp://ftp.shiva.com/distrib/older/ Thank you. I plan to start the siphon this evening. > Anybody know some good network books that include setting up the > FastPath or other router type boxes? Never seen one. > Much of what seems very hard to me personally I think is just my general > lack of network specifics. If you have some network admin experience my > guess is that its a lot more of just fill in the boxes, where for me its > what the heck is that box. I have a solid background in TCP/IP and adminstrating network devices, so I'll be glad to help you answer "what the heck is that box" questions if you have any. > A few things I have learned. > The administrator software is a bit fussy about which OS and network > software the mac it runs on is using. Unsurprising, given the state of Mac networking ten years ago. > Once the FastPath is configured though, its a pure network device Great to hear. > ...so no special software is required on any of the machines on > the network EXCEPT for a mac to run the admin on and make changes. That's been my barrier so far. The preliminary research I did when I first got this thing was that my ROM revision (gained by physical inspection) was unsuitable for use with the tools that were available for download. I don't recall if the correct version was 5x the cost of the box to me, or not available at any price any longer, but I know that commercially, a ROM upgrade was not viable. > When I get it sorted out on my own, I do plan to write up what I learn for a > basic configuration. Ping me offline if you want to collaborate on this. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Mar 30 14:01:57 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: FastPath (was Re: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port?) Message-ID: Speaking of the fastpath4 boxes, is anyone interested in two of them? I have no interest in them right now. Prefer trades for IBM stuff, primarily PS/2. Extra credit given if anyone can find me a Serverguard card for a PS/2. In a message dated 3/30/01 1:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, ethan_dicks@yahoo.com writes: << --- Mike Ford wrote: > >--- Mike Ford wrote: > > > >I take it you resolved the issue of ROM code, driver software, etc. I still > >have that Fastpath4 sitting idle, waiting for the chance to put it to use. > > > >Any pointers on how to get it up and active? > > RTFM ;) Love to. Need the FM. > The FastPath is the most powerfull of the boxes that I know of, supporting > the bridging of a complete localtalk LAN to a ethernet network, with both > Appletalk and TCP/IP support among other features. Perfect. >> From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 30 15:16:16 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> Hello Chuck, Chuck McManis wrote: > Can you be a bit more specific? Presumably your VT320 lights up the "VT320 > OK" message after powering on and you can get into and out of SETUP using > the F3 key on the keyboard right? Yes, > > If so make sure you communication settings are 9600 baud, 8 data bits, and > one stop bit. > *IMPORTANT* you need to go to the directory and select 'SAVE' and press the > keypad enter key (the term will say "done") in order to keep the setting > across power cycles. Ok, I wondered how to save this. Most everything was already setup for me already, However. > > If you're VT320 has the RS232 option (this is indicated by a DB25 connector > on the back) then make sure that it is set to DEC-423 as its communication > port. Mine doesn't have the the rs232 option. > > Next be sure you're plugging into the port with the back to back arrows > over it, not the printer port. Ok here. > > Next go into setup and turn on local echo, then back out of setup and type > on the keyboard and verify that the results show up on screen. Ok, I'll have to turn local echo on. > > Now hook up to the console port on the 3400, and set the panel to 'halt on > break' mode (see my web page > : for a picture of > your front panel, there is a legend near the bottom of the page) > > Do you see the power on message? You should get a count down on the > terminal and it should stop with the >>> prompt. I get number flashing on the panel, but nothing on the terminal, as of last night. > > If you don't see anything, then turn off the 3400 and remove the console > panel (two captive screws do it) and look at the dial switch inside to > verify that _it_ is set for 9600 baud and that the plug to the CPU card is > correctly seated. I just recently started messing with this. I think it is at 2400 currently. I'll check it. > > At this point you will have something on the VT320 or you'll know what part > of your system is broken :-) I hope nothing broken! I'll go over your list of things and get back with you. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Fri Mar 30 15:41:33 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AC4FD8D.8DB97D59@internet1.net> I get the vt320 Ok message, but nothing past a blinking cursor after that. How do I figure out what is broken? What do the numbers on the console mean? It stalls at 3, then goes to 7, C, and then stops at 1. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 15:34:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <460.489T50T13543995optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>>Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. >> >>Who bloody cares? And since when could you get 128MB SIMMs at 25$? >Take a look on any price search engine, ie http://www.pricewatch.com/ and >you will find plenty of sources of lifetime warranty PC133 256 MB modules >for less than $50. 128 MB 72-pin SIMMs? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Kyosuke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 15:36:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330115309.00d6f830@pc> Message-ID: <912.489T750T13564455optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >128M is sick? It's not just an OS, it's an OS plus who knows what. Then they should learn to keep things neatly apart. And what would require 128 megs of RAM? Simulations of a glaxy or two? >You might as well rail about the price of electricity... a newer >computer probably sucks less juice than a classic. Which do you >want to run all day? I want to run the computer I like. Besides, the 128 MB demand is akin to a newer computer suddenly requiring three-pjhase power for no apparent reason. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 15:43:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <20010330152431.57608.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <928.489T1400T13635169optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >I've used the A-Max II card w/A-Max and Shapeshifter. In fact, I got my >license for Shapeshifter by procuring a Z8530 manual for the author. He >was having problems locating one and I had a spare. I loved Shapeshifter >for the fact that it worked with Amiga Ethernet cards. I gave a demo of >my A3000 at work once - A-Mosaic running on AmigaDOS while using Apple >File Sharing to access a Quadra 950 under the next desk. Only one OS >could have a TCP/IP stack loaded at a time, though; so I had to bring >down AmiTCP to use Netscape on the emulated Mac. Big fun. Looks like you need Nullsana.device, which will route between the Mac and the Amiga TCP/IP stack. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Zeit kommt aus der Zukunft, die nicht existiert, in die Gegenwart, die keine Dauer hat, und geht in die Vergangenheit, die aufgeh?rt hat, zu bestehen. --- Augustinus (R?m. Kirchenlehrer, 354-430 n. Chr.) From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 15:57:29 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Amiga questions In-Reply-To: <20010330191920.96816.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2249.489T1450T13775383optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >> On the hardware side of things, someone said the 1200's IDE controller is >> basically unbuffered I/O straight to the CPU (which sounds possible >> certainly with IDE) and so it's real easy to toast things - is that true? >It's true. In general, IDE tends to be a fairly raw interface, although as >machines have evolved, it's not as raw as back in the 386 days. It's worth pointing out that the A4000 was buffered, though. There are buffered IDE multiplexers abvailable so that one might add four ATAPI devices at once. I've got an unbuffered one on the 4000, though I've since removed the three sub-gigabyte drives with a single bigger one. >> What are the options of networking a '1200 (ideally TCP/IP stack on the >> Amiga, using SLIP or something to a Unix box maybe? Are there things around >> that allow this, with NFS mounting of drives for data copying?) >Since I've never owned as 1200, I can't speak to the myriad of hardware >options, but there are TCP/IP stacks for AmigaDOS and clients such as >NFS clients, Web Browsers, Samba servers. If you want the storage on the >UNIX box to be accessible by the Amiga, NFS is a good way to go. If you >want the other way around, Samba fits the bill. I do not know if there is >a freeware implementation of NFS Server for AmigaDOS (there was at least >one commercial one) There is a free NFS server port on Aminet, http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/aminet/comm/tcp/nfsd_bin991130.lha I'd probably go with that in a UNIX environment, though it seems to have a tendency to fluctuate in speed a lot. I suspect this has got something to do with the virtual inode which it goes about creating, but suddenly performance drops a whole lot and drive activity gets quite intense. BTW, I got my first Speccy today! Can't wait to see if it's a 48K or 16K version. Now I only have to get one of those cassette recorders. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. The object of this game is to take an ordinary guy and make him into a Pimp Master. You start off in your home town.You'll gradually build up cash and prostitutes,until you wipe out the other pimps in town. Then,it's time to move on to another,bigger city,and do the same. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From red at bears.org Fri Mar 30 16:22:56 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010330020345.037f0b80@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > Nope, the Sun video connectors are called 13W3's. I believe the full designation is "DB-13W3". ok r. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Mar 30 16:23:30 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <912.489T750T13564455optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330115309.00d6f830@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330161748.00d6f830@pc> At 10:36 PM 3/30/01 +0100, you wrote: >John Foust skrev: >>128M is sick? It's not just an OS, it's an OS plus who knows what. > >Then they should learn to keep things neatly apart. And what would require 128 >megs of RAM? Simulations of a glaxy or two? What's to keep neatly apart for a consumer PC? They want all the latest, not a microcontroller or DOS 3.0. It's the minimum recommended for typical use, which Microsoft will happily define as the amount needed to make the OS functional, plus being able to run a bunch of Microsoft apps. These days that includes cable modems stuffing music and video and bloat and crap onto 30 gig HDs. Surprisingly, the memory makers and PC makers don't seem to complain as requirements increase. - John From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Mar 30 16:51:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal In-Reply-To: <3AC4FD8D.8DB97D59@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> At 04:41 PM 3/30/2001 -0500, Chad wrote: >I get the vt320 Ok message, but nothing past a blinking cursor after >that. And you've confirmed that with local echo on you can type and the terminal will display what you type right? Good. >What do the numbers on the console >mean? It stalls at 3, then goes to 7, C, and then stops at 1. They represent what the status register has in it, stopping at '1' means it is trying to boot. You want it to stop at 3. (which is in the console monitor). So look at the position of the rotary switch and slide switch on the console panel. Rotary switch points to the arrow, slide switch goes down to the side indicated with the 'dot-out-of-the-hole.' >How do I figure out what is broken? Work from one end out to the other. Assuming you've done all the steps in the previous message and the follow things are true to the best of your knowledge: 1) The 3400 is set to 9600 baud console speed. 2) On the console bulkhead the round switch (has a raised triangle on it) is set to point at the "arrow" glyph, and the slide switch next to it on the left is in the lower position (dot-out-of-the-circle). 3) The VT320 is connected from the MMJ on the bulkhead to the MMJ with back to back arrows (second MMJ from the left looking at the back of the VT320) 4) The VT320 is set to talk 9600 baud (transmit and receive), jump scroll no flow control. 5) The VT320 is powered up and passes its self tests. And it still doesn't work. Then you go into "fault finding" mode. And that is where you start at one end and work toward the other. A question occurs to me, did you make your own MMJ cable or is it a DEC one? If you made it yourself did you remember to flip the wires in one end? (All MMJ cables have a 'half-twist' which connects pins on two MMJ connections to their opposite counterparts. This is a really cool feature of DEC-423 ports which allows you to hook up any two pieces of gear with the same cable and they always are wired to talk. If you made your own cable, or had it made, this is the likely problem. So we'll start at the VT320 end as that is the simplest to test without any special tools. After you've verified that your VT320 can locally echo characters then the next step in the signal path is the serial port on the back of the terminal. So the 6 pin connector on the MMJ has wires on one side that are exposed. If you think of these wires as three 'pairs' with the two middle pins as the first pair, the next two out from the center (pins 2 and 5) as the next pair, and the outer pins as the third pair, then you want to short the second pair. You can do this either with a very fine wire, or by plugging the cable into a MMJ->DB25 adapter and shorting pins 2 and 3 on that adapter. This will create a loop-back path for the terminal such that when it is *not* in local echo mode, characters typed on the keyboard are sent through the MMJ, down the cable, travel across your short to the other pin, come back up the cable and back into the MMJ (now as transmitted characters) and get displayed on your screen. If you find yourself wanting to test a lot of DEC terminals for some reason, making an MMJ loopback cable just for this is quite cheap and easy if you have the crimper tool. If after the above test, you see the characters you type getting echoed on the screen, then you know that the VT320 is working and the cable does not have any breaks in it (you don't know if the cable is wired properly but unfortunately.) You can test proper cable wireing with an ohmmeter or a lightbulb/battery/two wires circuit. Check to see that pin 1 on one MMJ has continuity with pin 6 on the other MMJ, then 2 and 5, then 3 and 4 etc. If you want to validate the baud rate on the Vt320 you can either hook it to a known good system (I use a laptop's serial port) or an oscilloscope. On an oscilloscope you should type 'U' or '*' (nice pattern of 10101010 in ascii) and measure the time between edges to verify 9600 baud timing.) So if that works, then it gets a bit harder because it means the fault is between the console plug on the VAX and the CPU board. If you _do_ have an oscilloscope. Just hook your MMJ cable to the VAX and put the scope on pins 2 and 3 (gnd) to see if you see characters being produced. If they aren't then its quite possible that the MMJ circuit got toasted. This happens if you have a VT220 plugged in and you unplug the terminal from the power line rather than turning it off at the switch. It generates a voltage spike (that looks like the current loop voltage) across the MMJ and toasts the receiver. The fix for that problem is to replace the differential driver chip (or the console bulk head) [Note if you or anyone else reading this wants a 3400 console bulkhead then $10 will get you one delivered via priority mail to any of the 48 states :-)] At this point though my money is on the MMJ cable. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 17:03:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Well I'm pleased with myself :-) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010330110850.02c259a0@208.226.86.129> from "Chuck McManis" at Mar 30, 1 11:13:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1136 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010331/823a60b9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 17:04:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <10103302023.ZM8877@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Mar 30, 1 07:23:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 318 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010331/2ac59569/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Mar 30 17:01:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <15044.56051.764773.548271@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Mar 30, 1 02:13:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1226 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010331/ec0b7cbb/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 30 17:09:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: FastPath (was Re: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Speaking of the fastpath4 boxes, is anyone interested in two of them? I have >no interest in them right now. Prefer trades for IBM stuff, primarily PS/2. >Extra credit given if anyone can find me a Serverguard card for a PS/2. How would I know one of these Serverguard cards? Got any FastPath docs? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Mar 30 17:25:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <460.489T50T13543995optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >Mike Ford skrev: > >>>>Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. >>> >>>Who bloody cares? And since when could you get 128MB SIMMs at 25$? > >>Take a look on any price search engine, ie http://www.pricewatch.com/ and >>you will find plenty of sources of lifetime warranty PC133 256 MB modules >>for less than $50. > >128 MB 72-pin SIMMs? Machines that use 72 pin simms are obsolete. Couple months ago I bought 10 lbs of 72 pin simms, nothing bigger than 8 MB, 99% 4 MB, and those are likely the last I will EVER buy. The low price of new memory vs the still very high price of older memory has really killed my interest in memory upgrades for the old hardware. 64 MB DIMMs for my Starmax are $150 each, and for $300 I can buy 512 MB of PC133 ram, a nice motherboard, and a Tbird cpu that will clock easily over 1 Ghz. Same goes for SCSI drives, except the weird old workstation stuff I pick up cheap. Of course I will continue to use a lot of my old hardware, but the OS etc. has got to live with a memory diet. Fortunately a lot of it is very happy with a 4 mb simm in each slot. From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 30 18:30:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <928.489T1400T13635169optimus@canit.se> References: <928.489T1400T13635169optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Looks like you need Nullsana.device, which will route between the Mac and the >Amiga TCP/IP stack. At one time I was going to use my A2286 bridgeboard with an ISA NIC card so that I could use ethernet on my A4000 cheaply. The performance wasn't a big issue and the drivers and such to 'bridge' the Amiga TCP/IP to the ethernet port on the ISA board were available on Aminet. In theory, it should've worked under Shapeshifter as well. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 30 19:00:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Mac haul and print server questions In-Reply-To: <20010330152431.57608.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010330152431.57608.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I had the A-Max II+ card (an upgrade from my A-Max cart). It had a floppy >mauler that sat between the Amiga drive and the Amiga motherboard that did >the speed things to the disk motor to allow a fairly standard drive to >read/write 400K and 800K disks (I continued to use my A-Max cart with a real >external Mac drive to save wear and tear on my expensive 1760K Amiga >half-speed, high-density disk drives). It also had a Z8530 and a >couple of Mac >serial ports and did let me use my HP 4ML from an emulated Mac session. I had the Emplant Deluxe with the serial ports and SCSI. I didn't use the SCSI though, using a DKB Rapidfire instead. For the Mac floppy under Shapeshifter I used one of the Dell external HD drives. Add to that the fact that I was running Cybergraphix on an EGS Spectrum 24bit board and it made for a pretty believable Mac. I used Eudora, Ircle, and Netscape on it but I really liked to use it for playing 'Maelstrom', an updated 3D Asteroids-type game. I don't believe I ever ran better than System 7.1 on it but the speed was close to full Mac speed and everything, including sound and a 640 x 480 256 color screen mode, worked great. I was an early register of Shapeshifter. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 18:20:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330161748.00d6f830@pc> Message-ID: <1184.490T2100T805869optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 10:36 PM 3/30/01 +0100, you wrote: >>John Foust skrev: >>>128M is sick? It's not just an OS, it's an OS plus who knows what. >> >>Then they should learn to keep things neatly apart. And what would require >>128 megs of RAM? Simulations of a glaxy or two? >What's to keep neatly apart for a consumer PC? They want all >the latest, not a microcontroller or DOS 3.0. I'm not talking about a microcontroller or DOS 3.0 either! Could you keep this at a civil level? I'm talking about a windowing OS, and why would that require 128 MB? >It's the minimum recommended for typical use, which Microsoft will >happily define as the amount needed to make the OS functional, >plus being able to run a bunch of Microsoft apps. These days >that includes cable modems stuffing music and video and >bloat and crap onto 30 gig HDs. But then that's another thing. Apps are not the same as the OS and may be chosen according to requirements. >Surprisingly, the memory makers and PC makers don't seem to complain as >requirements increase. Exactly. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. --- Vittorio de Sica From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Mar 30 19:57:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <1184.490T2100T805869optimus@canit.se> References: <1184.490T2100T805869optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >But then that's another thing. Apps are not the same as the OS and may be >chosen according to requirements. Probably the biggest resource hog, outside of all of the multimedia stuff coming in off of the web, are games. I'm not too current on the PC requirements, but on the Mac 128meg is generally considered the minimum if you're going to play stuff like Unreal Tournement, Quake, X-Plane, and other games with heavy hardware requirements. The days of a DOS based game running in 256k using TGA/PCjr graphics are long gone. One of my favorite games 'Chuck Yeagers Advanced Flight Trainer' has just those requirements, though I first played it on the C64. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Fri Mar 30 20:35:00 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1536.490T0T2153129optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>Mike Ford skrev: >> >>>>>Outrageous, that must be what, $25 retail of ram they are wasting. >>>> >>>>Who bloody cares? And since when could you get 128MB SIMMs at 25$? >> >>>Take a look on any price search engine, ie http://www.pricewatch.com/ and >>>you will find plenty of sources of lifetime warranty PC133 256 MB modules >>>for less than $50. >> >>128 MB 72-pin SIMMs? >Machines that use 72 pin simms are obsolete. Only because you and Microsoft say so. >Couple months ago I bought 10 lbs of 72 pin simms, nothing bigger than 8 >MB, 99% 4 MB, and those are likely the last I will EVER buy. The low price >of new memory vs the still very high price of older memory has really >killed my interest in memory upgrades for the old hardware. 64 MB DIMMs for >my Starmax are $150 each, and for $300 I can buy 512 MB of PC133 ram, a >nice motherboard, and a Tbird cpu that will clock easily over 1 Ghz. Same >goes for SCSI drives, except the weird old workstation stuff I pick up >cheap. Got to love capitalism. >Of course I will continue to use a lot of my old hardware, but the OS etc. >has got to live with a memory diet. Fortunately a lot of it is very happy >with a 4 mb simm in each slot. If only more software were that. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 30 20:44:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. References: Message-ID: <000501c0b98c$79b8fb60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The odd thing in this case, is that I had the impression that what was wanted was a way to generate ANY desired frequency from ANY available crystal. That's a tall order, which may be why I had such trouble making sense of the rather bizarre initial post. There are some clock frequencies that readily produce a long list of useful frequencies, i.e. harmonics of both the baud rates and of useful timing rates. However, since the original post indicated the writer was enamored of handy integral frequencies readily quoted by the marketing department at nearly any CPU vendor, it looked to me as though what he was after was a way to generate the "other" useful frequencies, e.g. baud rate generator input clock, etc, from whatever crystal he had on board. A rate multiplier would do that sort of thing nicely. If it doesn't fit, however, it's well to note that 5% is close enough for baud rates, and that if that doesn't allow for the use of "common" oscillator frequencies, one of the many multiplier/divider PLL devices now quite ubiquitous thanks to PC motherboards and other devices that use them would easily do the job. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:08 AM Subject: Re: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. > > > > If you're after something more general than a divide-by-two, you might want to > > consider a "rate multiplier" of one sort or another. These are multistage > > I wouldn't have thought a rate multiplier was that useful here. > > The rate multipliers I am used to have n control inputs. If you set these > to a binary number M, you get M output pulses for every 2^n inputs clock > pulses. And those output pulses, while obviously synchronised to the > input clock, are as evenly spaced as possible. So if, for example, you > have a 4-input one and set the inputs to 1000, you get 8 output pulses > for 16 input pulses, and those output pulses appear synchronised to every > other input clock. But unless the number you set is a divisor of the > total number of states, the output pulses will not be evenly spaced. > > And to use one to do a division by 2^m is adding complexity to the > circuit for no good reason. A chain of D-types, or a synchronous counter, > is a lot simpler. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Mar 30 20:49:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: Message-ID: <001101c0b98d$406a27c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Now there's a case I had never worried about. I guess it could come up, since the signals really needed for VGA are just the six video/return signals and the two sync's and a common for them. That's 9, and certainly would warrant a valid connector configuration that one could call DE9, though that one already exists. I'm glad I don't have to explain that. There is, by the way, another more "current" name for the 3-row, 'E'-shell connector commonly seen with 15 pins in it in VGA applications. I'm not remembering it, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:22 AM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > > > The origitnal concept underlying this designiation scheme was based on the > > notion that you had the 'D' for the shape, the for the shell sizes that > > were in use at the time, 'E' and beyond coming later. and a number for the > > Yes, that's the explanation I heard for why the 9 pin is size E (rather > than A, with all the others moving up one letter). > > > number of POPULATED pin locations. > > The problem with that notation is : what do you call a connector formed > by taking a VGA connector shell (for want of a better name) and puting 9 > pins in it. It can't be a DE9 because that's the normal E-shell with all > positions populated. > > Also, IIRC, there were DE3 and DE5 connectors used by HP for serial lines > at one point. And the pin spacing was not the same as either the normal > DE9 or high-density DE15. > > No, I think the number _has_ to be the total number of contact positions > that could be used. > > -tony > > From phil at ultimate.com Fri Mar 30 22:42:10 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: FastPath (was Re: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port?) Message-ID: <200103310442.XAA00505@ultimate.com> > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:09:49 -0800 > From: Mike Ford > > Got any FastPath docs? I do, plus, I was software lead on the FastPath at Shiva in the early 90s. I did the FastPath 4+ and FastPath 5. -phil From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 30 17:51:36 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:35 2005 Subject: Got your vaxstation mouse puck? In-Reply-To: <200103202049.f2KKn3j03063@bg-tc-ppp1555.monmouth.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Mar 20, 2001 09:21:04 am" Message-ID: <20010331045058.CDKC22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi Bill, Got yours yet? That AAUI dougle works and I'm happy. Cheers, Wizard From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Mar 31 01:06:56 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: FastPath In-Reply-To: <200103310442.XAA00505@ultimate.com> Message-ID: >> Got any FastPath docs? > >I do, plus, I was software lead on the FastPath at Shiva in the early >90s. I did the FastPath 4+ and FastPath 5. Teach me master. ;) Actually I long for a one page crib sheet that tells how to use one in a typical small home network, but last time I looked the reset doc was more than a page. ;) I would really like to learn how to use these devices, so any tips on getting started, words of wisdom RE different roms etc.? From univac at earthlink.net Sat Mar 31 01:15:53 2001 From: univac at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Looking For MC6800 Site Message-ID: Can anyone point me to a good website about the Motorola 6800 (6800, not 68000)? I'm designing a simple computer around it, and need some info. Thanks, Owen From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sat Mar 31 02:28:23 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Looking For MC6800 Site In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Mar 31, 2001 01:15:53 AM Message-ID: <200103310828.AAA12951@eskimo.com> > Can anyone point me to a good website about the Motorola 6800 (6800, not > 68000)? I'm designing a simple computer around it, and need some info. No, but I can find some books and possibly data sheets. There are also Web sites with directories of online versions of data sheets. What do you need to know? -- Derek From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Mar 31 02:51:10 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) References: <007201c0b92f$97bfba20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <003901c0b9bf$bcf15ac0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Depends on how hardcore a crystalset builder you are, I guess? I've done it the hard way a few times for fun, but the results were not lasting. Sometimes I also help children age ~10 to make their first crystalset and in that case I'm happy to use of the shelf components. For them it's important that they pull it off the first time reliably. I have fun doing all of the above. After all, somewhere in a ge-diode there is a crystal..... Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------------------- "don't try to solve with words..... ..... what you can accomplish with a flamethrower" ---------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) > Well, if the purpose of the crystal + (what we used was a safety-pin) is to > function as a diode, then is it still a crystal radio if a diode is used > instead? > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) > > > > > > > > When I built mine, we (the CubScout pack) used toilet paper roll cores which > we > > > varnished and then applied our magnet wire. We even went rock hunting to > find > > > galena crystals to use. I don't remember any sort of diode ... there > could've > > > been one, though ... that was nearly 50 years ago, after all. > > > > The galena + catswhisker is a (poor-quality) diode. > > > > My suggestion to use a ready-made diode (in the UK I'd use something like > > an OA81) is that you know that diode is good. You can then wind the coil > > and wire up the rest of the set, knowing that if it doesn't work the > > problem is not due to the fact you've not found a spot of the right > > impurities in the crystal. When you've got it working, you can then swap > > the diode for the crystal and catswhisker, knowing that if it doesn't > > work the problem is with that. > > > > Otherwise there are too many variables IMHO. > > > > -tony > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Mar 31 03:37:06 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment)" (Mar 30, 19:49) References: <001101c0b98d$406a27c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <10103311037.ZM9272@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Mar 30, 19:49, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'm glad I don't have to explain that. There is, by the way, another more > "current" name for the 3-row, 'E'-shell connector commonly seen with 15 pins in > it in VGA applications. I'm not remembering it, though. HD-15? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Mar 31 03:16:39 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:04:33 BST." Message-ID: <200103310916.KAA13117@citadel.metropolis.local> > > I've not tried it, but I imagine a modern Schottky diode would be a good > > replacement. Some of them have an even lower voltage drop than normal > > I've not tried it either, but I've had much the same thought. One of us > is going to have to make a crystal set using a Schottky diode and see > what happens.... > I have a xtal set where the diode can be fitted in screw terminals (made for selecting which diode gives the most audio!) but I can't find a Schottky diode in my spares box ;-( -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Mar 31 04:50:37 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <10103311037.ZM9272@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Richard Erlacher" <001101c0b98d$406a27c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331025023.0254c2c0@mail.zipcon.net> I've seen the VGA plug referred to as DB15HD At 09:37 AM 3/31/01 +0000, you wrote: >On Mar 30, 19:49, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I'm glad I don't have to explain that. There is, by the way, another >more > > "current" name for the 3-row, 'E'-shell connector commonly seen with 15 >pins in > > it in VGA applications. I'm not remembering it, though. > >HD-15? > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Sat Mar 31 04:58:40 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Amiga questions References: <20010330191920.96816.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008101c0b9d1$a07e2960$0101010a@pentium2> Ethan Dicks wrote: > AFAIK, yes. The A600 was available with and without drives and ISTR the > ROMs were different, but I've owned just about every other model than that > and can't comment from personal experience. Yep. Every A1200 came with an IDE interface. > There are no inbuilt _intentional_ (i.e., marketing driven) size limitations > beyond the usual sorts of things one gets trying to bolt a drive onto a ten- > year-old system that never conceived of a monsterous storage device. I think > there is a general 4Gb limit on disks, SCSI or IDE. I know there is an issue > with the FFS and number of blocks in the device. I have personally never put > anything over 4Gb on an Amiga, but have had lots of luck with 20Mb on up to > 1Gb. The 4Gb problem can be bypassed by purchasing AmigaOS 3.5 /3.9. > The 2.5" connector provides power as well as data. If you address that issue, > yes, you can use an adapter to hook a 3.5" device (or 5.25", like a CD-ROM) > to your A1200. The 3.5" hard disk on my A1200 takes power from the disk drive. > > On the hardware side of things, someone said the 1200's IDE controller is > > basically unbuffered I/O straight to the CPU (which sounds possible > > certainly with IDE) and so it's real easy to toast things - is that true? Eyetech and several other manufacturers sell a 4-way buffered IDE adaptor. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Sat Mar 31 08:05:59 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 28-Mar-2001 Jason McBrien wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Honniball" > To: >> I had to take an >> old phone along to show how it would fit, because no-one >> would imagine that now, with all phones being different >> sizes. > > I've got one of those! I've been scouring salvation armys for old style > phones for years. I miss those things, they weighed a ton, you knew when > you were holding one in your hands.. I spent a few months looking for an old black standard bell phone, from back in the days that bell canada required you rent phones from them. Finaly picked one up that someone had tossed into the garbage, fully functionnal (though the finish is a bit messed) It was to replace the one I had that got very smashed up (under embarrassing circumstances). This fone is in the living room and is plugged in and usable. Why? Short story : I was at a party a few years back. A riotous party of the halloween sort. I wanted to call up a friend and the only phone in the place had a rotary dial. What with my unfamiliarity with the number i was phoning, certain substances that were coursing through my metabolism (ahem) and the fact I was out of practice with rotary dial, I was unable to compose the number. Since then, I've made sure to have a rotary dial in the house and use it, for "practice". I just wish I had a red version of this phone..... "I'll call them on the Red Phone." :-) -Philip From greg at ciswired.com Sat Mar 31 08:26:58 2001 From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Reformat RA81/82? Message-ID: Can RA81/82 disks be reformatted in the field? If so, is this done through XXDP or is there a way to do it from the disk's serial port? My RA82 occasionally lights its FAULT light and extinguishes its ready light during write operations. The likelyhood of it faulting appears (but I am not certain) to be correlated with a specific region of the disk. About five-ten seconds after the fault, the FAULT indicator turns off and ready comes back on. At no time is an I/O error generated that the application or the operating system (2.11BSD) see so this fault appears to be transient and is resolved by either the drive or the drive/controller together. It "smells" like a data write error that's resolved after a few automatic retries. I'm hoping a low-level reformat could clear it up. Am I wacked out? If there's an XXDP exerciser/formatter available I'd appreciate it if someone could point me there. It's been nearly twenty years since the last time I even tried running XXDP Thanks as always, greg p.s. The RA81 drive on the same controller never gives any trouble (yet). I've tried some more basic things like swapping SDI cables and drive ports but it doesn't make a difference. Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg@ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Mar 31 10:33:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Old western electric phones available Message-ID: <200103311635.KAA30541@opal.tseinc.com> I have three of the "old style" touch tone phones available (real bell, can be used with an acoustic modem), If anyone wants them please let me know, we can work something out. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 31 11:40:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: constructing TTL frequency divide by x question. In-Reply-To: <000501c0b98c$79b8fb60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Mar 30, 1 07:44:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010331/221c7fda/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Mar 31 11:41:32 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <1184.490T2100T805869optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330161748.00d6f830@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010331113654.00c573d0@pc> At 01:20 AM 3/31/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>>Then they should learn to keep things neatly apart. And what would require >>>128 megs of RAM? Simulations of a glaxy or two? > >>What's to keep neatly apart for a consumer PC? They want all >>the latest, not a microcontroller or DOS 3.0. > >I'm not talking about a microcontroller or DOS 3.0 either! Could you keep this >at a civil level? I'm talking about a windowing OS, and why would that require >128 MB? OK, not galaxy collision simulation - how about a scanner? If you're not adept, it's easy to mistakenly scan at twice the resolution, eating gobs of RAM. If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. It may be there just to sell memory. If we want to talk about something truly controversial, let's hash out that "rinse, lather, repeat" recursion on the shampoo bottles. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Mar 31 11:43:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331025023.0254c2c0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Mar 31, 1 02:50:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 194 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010331/af235231/attachment.ksh From rdd at smart.net Sat Mar 31 12:43:11 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: SparcServer 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings, Is anyone here familiar with the Sun SparcServer 1000 systems? This morning, I picked one up at a hamfest; it has two CPU boards in it, each, it appears, has 4 CPUs. I was able to identify one of the boards from it's part number from what I found on the net; appears to have 20MHz CPUs; the other board is a higher number, but I've found little data for it this far. The CPU boards are: 501-2336 and 501-2541. Does anone have any data on these? Being unfmamiliar with multiprocessor systems, I'm wondering how fast this will be in comparison to my 170MHz Ultra-1; slower for some things and faster for others, I guess, while consuming much more power---is this correct? Wow, this is one heavy machine! In order to figure out if Solaris 8 can run on it, do I count the total amount of memory in the system, or the amount of memory per CPU? Haven't identified the memory in it yet, but one CPU board has 12 banks filled. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From RebelTerry at home.net Sat Mar 31 15:08:23 2001 From: RebelTerry at home.net (RebelTerry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: HP 9845 games web page Message-ID: <20010331210724.EQEP14080.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@c1312125-a> Okay, I whipped up a quick site for my HP 9845 stuff. It has scanned screen shots from some of my games. If you're curious, check it out. http://www.sixstring.com/terry/hp9845/ I'm still hoping to find a working HP that can play these! Terry From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Mar 31 16:28:57 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010331113654.00c573d0@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 31, 2001 11:41:32 AM Message-ID: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> > If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for > the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. > It may be there just to sell memory. The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 were a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if you're patient. But do useful work? Ha. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 31 16:51:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> References: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the >OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 were >a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if you're >patient. But do useful work? Ha. I have a Compaq Contura 430C laptop with a 486DX4/100 cpu and 16megs of RAM running Win98 that I used for checking email and stuff on the road. It's a lesson in patience when trying to do anything with it. Unfortunately I've never found any larger memory upgrades for it. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jss at ou.edu Sat Mar 31 16:59:50 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010331113654.00c573d0@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331165617.00a7b468@pop.ou.edu> At 3/31/2001 04:28 PM, you wrote: > > If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for > > the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. > > It may be there just to sell memory. > >The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum >the OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for >win95 were a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, >if you're patient. But do useful work? Ha. Exactly. I installed Win95 on a 486DX2/66 with 12MB of RAM once. It wasn't pretty. It was a long time ago, but I believe that it took more than 10 minutes to boot up. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk Sat Mar 31 17:47:33 2001 From: M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk (M.Buckett) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Mar 31, 2001 03:28:57 PM Message-ID: > > > If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for > > the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. > > It may be there just to sell memory. > > The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the > OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 were > a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if you're > patient. But do useful work? Ha. > For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job done. The machine has since been upgraded to a 486DX25 . The 386 would manage to grab a frame every 30 seconds, compress it into a JPG and upload it to a webserver. The 486 manages every 10 seconds. Still for a while the 386 was just about being useful. A note to anyone else trying this, use the first release of Windows 95, don't event think about Windows 98. Matthew Buckett Webcam: http://freeside.dcs.hull.ac.uk/webcam.shtml From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 31 17:46:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010331113654.00c573d0@pc> Message-ID: <1384.491T1100T464645optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 01:20 AM 3/31/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>>>Then they should learn to keep things neatly apart. And what would require >>>>128 megs of RAM? Simulations of a glaxy or two? >> >>>What's to keep neatly apart for a consumer PC? They want all >>>the latest, not a microcontroller or DOS 3.0. >> >>I'm not talking about a microcontroller or DOS 3.0 either! Could you keep >>this at a civil level? I'm talking about a windowing OS, and why would that >>require >>128 MB? >OK, not galaxy collision simulation - how about a scanner? >If you're not adept, it's easy to mistakenly scan at twice >the resolution, eating gobs of RAM. I know, I've worked as a layout assistant. But why would scanning mistakes affect the memory requirements of an OS, and 128 MB at that? When I worked a scanner all day long, it was on a comnputer with probably half that amount. >If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for >the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. >It may be there just to sell memory. As long as it's just a recommendation, all right. Just as long as isn't a requirement. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. - Lupin! Vart ska du? - Tar v?gen ?ver berget f?ljer gr?nsen s? kommer vi till havet. - Det ?r ju mer ?n 100 km. - Det ?r v?l ingenting. Jag tillh?r v?rldseliten jag. Lupin III den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Mar 31 17:56:16 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Classic MAC "network" games? In-Reply-To: <002501c0bb06$61900440$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude>; from claudew@videotron.ca on Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 07:49:24PM -0400 References: <002501c0bb06$61900440$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <20010331185616.E6757@alcor.concordia.ca> On Sun, Apr 01, 2001 at 07:49:24PM -0400, Claude.W (claudew@videotron.ca) wrote: > I am sending off a bunch of compact MACs to the "familly compound" where we > have our many familly holiday gatherings. I had accumulated over 30 of > these, mostly Classics and Classic IIs. > > I was not into games when these were popular so...anybody remember any good > titles that could be played head-to-head on these? It's all about bolo. http://www.lgm.com/bolo/ -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 31 13:02:21 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010331113654.00c573d0@pc> from "John Foust" at Mar 31, 2001 11:41:32 AM Message-ID: <20010401000155.LYJK22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Jim Strickland > Subject: Re: Apple LWPro parallel port? > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 15:28:57 -0700 (MST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for > > the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. > > It may be there just to sell memory. No no... wasn't it, if this OS min 128MB is required, count on it to work best at 256M or more, that is my experience on this. > > The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the > OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 were > a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if you're > patient. But do useful work? Ha. Snort, Correct, But behind that, M$ hopes they could snare hapless buyers with their crap and amirably succeeded. That's very minimum specs, I find Pentium 100 or 486DX4 w/ 48MB is about right for win95 to run software apps acceptably, best chipset and cache is a must. That was same specs I had on mine for 2 years before I moved up to PII 350 /w 64MB couple yr ago, now retired very recently for duron 800, new GeForce2 MX and win98, this time wasn't OS, it was one of my game demanded that move and prices was right. Btw: that minimum specs for win95 is also not enough for win311, it likes 8 or 16MB, 386DX 25 w/ good cache required or so even better 486, external cache optional. 386sx is a bogus!! Yet it works but bogus would-be 386dx shackled to a updated 286 design chipsets. Very rare 386sx boards has cache that made all the difference but still, that memory bandwidth plus 386sx was designed around slow memory timings, both took serious hits on overall performance. I tried to do this on a 386sx notebook has 2 way 4K cache, 10MB ram running X on linux couple of years ago and 486slc2 50 (cyrix) on win95. Both crawled and would crash n' burn often, everything solved upgrading to real straight and through 32bitness designs like 386dx or 486 and up. This is not only ones, many makers of all kinds including sun, apple turned out few weirdo boxens with too many corners cut. Examples: Apple's 6100 series and few of their models as well. When I throught having ppc motherboard to swap that 610's board with this is ultra cool and on the cheap till I found out having video card is required to get good performance on 6100's. Bah!! Bad news I have couple 610's none other motherboards is designed to fit in those cases other than 6100 or 610 boards. Cheers, Wizard From optimus at canit.se Sat Mar 31 18:56:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <889.491T1650T1165263optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the >>OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 >>were a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if >>you're patient. But do useful work? Ha. > I have a Compaq Contura 430C laptop with a 486DX4/100 cpu and >16megs of RAM running Win98 that I used for checking email and stuff >on the road. It's a lesson in patience when trying to do anything >with it. Unfortunately I've never found any larger memory upgrades >for it. That's odd, I found Win95 to be quite usable on the IBM 486/66 at my father's house. I wouldn't really want to surf the web on it, but it was fine for running Paintshop pro, Word and a lot of 8-bit console emulators. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From jss at ou.edu Sat Mar 31 18:20:42 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331182008.00a731a0@pop.ou.edu> At 3/31/2001 05:47 PM, you wrote: >For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB >of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job >done. The machine has since been upgraded to a 486DX25 . The 386 would >manage to grab a frame every 30 seconds, compress it into a JPG and >upload it to a webserver. The 486 manages every 10 seconds. Still for >a while the 386 was just about being useful. But how many times per hour did you have to reboot it? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From red at bears.org Sat Mar 31 18:28:39 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: SparcServer 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > Is anyone here familiar with the Sun SparcServer 1000 systems? This > morning, I picked one up at a hamfest; it has two CPU boards in it, > each, it appears, has 4 CPUs. I was able to identify one of the > boards from it's part number from what I found on the net; appears to > have 20MHz CPUs; the other board is a higher number, but I've found > little data for it this far. The CPU boards are: 501-2336 and > 501-2541. Does anone have any data on these? Those are the XDBus boards, identifying which won't tell you much. The processor modules plug into the MBus. They're likely to be dual 50 MHz modules, either with 1 MB secondary cache, or without. Find the part number for the MBus modules and we can tell you more. What IS 20 MHz, though, is the SBus on those boards. The 501-2336 board is an FRU, while the 501-2541 came with the system and had a pair of SM51 (50 MHz, 1 MB L2 cache) processor modules on the MBus. > Being unfmamiliar with multiprocessor systems, I'm wondering how fast > this will be in comparison to my 170MHz Ultra-1; slower for some > things and faster for others, I guess, while consuming much more > power---is this correct? Nah, your U1 is likely to be a whole lot faster in nearly every respect, especially if it's the Enterprise 170, with its 100 Mbit ethernet and fast/wide SCSI. The SS1000 will continue to perform under a much heavier load, though, if it does indeed have 8 CPUs. Same caveats with any SMP system. The SM51 isn't a slouch, but it is old and comparatively slow. > Wow, this is one heavy machine! In order to figure out if Solaris 8 > can run on it, do I count the total amount of memory in the system, or > the amount of memory per CPU? Haven't identified the memory in it > yet, but one CPU board has 12 banks filled. Total memory in the system and is installed in matched sets of four modules. Traditionally, modules for this system were available in 8 and 32 MB sizes. The 8 MB SIMMs have part number 501-1817 while the 32 MB variety have part number 501-2196. Solaris support for the sun4d first appeared in Solaris 2.2 and is supported in Solaris 8, but "will be dropped any day now". I think this machine is off topic for the list, though, by about two years. (; ok r. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Mar 31 18:32:34 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331182008.00a731a0@pop.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 31, 2001 06:20:42 PM Message-ID: <200104010032.RAA04422@calico.litterbox.com> In all fairness, win95, when equipped with *all* 32 bit, well behaved drivers and then never touched software wise is stable enough to stay up a day or two without problems. Start doing things that touch the registry, and you WILL be reinstalling soon. > > At 3/31/2001 05:47 PM, you wrote: > >For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB > >of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job > >done. The machine has since been upgraded to a 486DX25 . The 386 would > >manage to grab a frame every 30 seconds, compress it into a JPG and > >upload it to a webserver. The 486 manages every 10 seconds. Still for > >a while the 386 was just about being useful. > > But how many times per hour did you have to reboot it? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Mar 31 18:42:11 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <1384.491T1100T464645optimus@canit.se> References: <1384.491T1100T464645optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I know, I've worked as a layout assistant. >But why would scanning mistakes affect the memory requirements of an OS, and >128 MB at that? When I worked a scanner all day long, it was on a comnputer >with probably half that amount. With the people I work with, who range from photographers, graphics artists and other publishing types, 256MB RAM is more the norm running Photoshop, Pagemaker, Dreamweaver, and such. That's on both Macs and PC's. Adobe makes some nice products, but they certainly aren't lighweight when it comes to resource requirements. When you're talking a full page spread in either Photoshop or Pagemaker, that's quite a large amount of RAM being used. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From phil at ultimate.com Sat Mar 31 19:22:34 2001 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: FastPath Message-ID: <200104010122.UAA04121@ultimate.com> > I would really like to learn how to use these devices, so any tips on > getting started, words of wisdom RE different roms etc.? A good place to start. FP4's will probably have PROM 4.1, or perhaps 4.1.2. You can manage them from a DIRECTLY connected LocalTalk or EtherTalk (Phase I) connected Mac running FastPath Manager (FPM). [This is also true for FP2's or FP3's which were upgraded to 2U's or 3U's] FPM uses "KLAP" -- a packet with "LAP" type 0x4b (the letter 'K'), which cannot be routed. An FP4 could be upgraded in two ways; Just a new PROM (5.1), or a new PROM, and a 256K SRAM memory board (for a total of 512K), which came with a new case, and a fan. A box with PROM v5.1 can be managed with FPM, or via Shiva Net Manager (SNM). SNM only speaks KLAP over DDP (or was that ATP). DDP is the regular AppleTalk network layer, so you can speak to boxes via intervening AppleTalk routers. ATP is the transaction protocol, layered on DDP. The CPU clock on the FP4 68000, was, I believe 8MHz. FP5's started with PROM v5.0 [FP5's use their PROM only to load the "VROM" -- a protected memory version of the PROM code]. FP5's came with 512K standard, and could be built with (or, I suppose upgraded to) up to 1MB, and the CPU clock was, I believe 10MHz. The FP4 is perhaps, more flexible in the hands of a hacker, since you could take direct control of the SCC, and do async or perhaps sync serial. On the FP5, the SCC is part of the I/O Processor (a Zilog Z181), and I never did an API to load code into the IOP. All versions of the FastPath PROM provide a vector of routines which the download can call. In PROM v4 and up, this includes access to the Ethernet driver, which is how we got away with replacing the iNTEL Ethernet controller from the FP1/2/3/4 with the Fujitsu EtherStar -- the download (K-STAR) doesn't care what the hardware is (direct SCC and i82586 on the FP4, or IOP and EtherStar in the FP5). On powerup, the PROM spends 20(?) seconds flashing LEDs, then starts the download, or the built in PROM GW (removed in v5), which is a simple Phase1/LocalTalk router (with no IP capabilities). Its's best to pause or reset the box before it gets rolling, in case it's misconfigured or otherwise frotzed. Once you have it paused, you can set the configuration and download K-STAR (NOTE!! With FPM and K-STAR 8+, the Phase II zone list is sent appended to the download, so it only gets set when downloading code!! -- SNM can set the zone list any time -- although the details of how we did that escape me at the moment). AppleTalk routing; If you set VERY LITTLE configuration, K-STAR will autoconfigure, either learning information, or supplying it. If you set some things, but not others, autoconfiguration may be disabled. IP; Most people will probably want to use the box to IP-enable LocalTalk Mac's. The simplest way is to use K-STAR IP, and supply "dynamic" addresses. The Mac IP addresses will directly follow the FastPaths, so assign a big enough block. MacTCP has an option "dynamic", which you DO NOT want to use (it means randomly pick an address to use!!) -- you want to use a "server" assigned address. I can't (off the top of my head) think of any other pitfalls. -phil From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Mar 31 19:39:48 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Classic MAC "network" games? Message-ID: <200104010141.TAA34079@opal.tseinc.com> >I was not into games when these were popular so...anybody remember any good >titles that could be played head-to-head on these? You want to get a copy of mazewar. Endless amusement, runs over localtalk. --Chuck From allain at panix.com Sat Mar 31 20:11:40 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: TCF this year: May 5 - 6 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10><5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10><009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys><5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10><3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <001f01c0ba51$345cfb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> (TCF = Trenton Computer Festival, in its 26th year, loc=Edison, NJ) I've never been, but plan not to miss this year. On topic. can anyone vouch that Classic Computers are represented at this thing, and if so, how well? John A. Re: http://www.tcf-nj.org , http://www.tcfshow.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Mar 31 20:19:28 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Got your vaxstation mouse puck? In-Reply-To: <20010331045058.CDKC22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Mar 30, 2001 11:51:36 pm" Message-ID: <200104010226.f312Q9f02514@bg-tc-ppp1602.monmouth.com> > Hi Bill, > > Got yours yet? > > That AAUI dougle works and I'm happy. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > Just arrived this morning -- just hooked it up and it works fine. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Mar 31 21:02:15 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: TCF this year: May 5 - 6 In-Reply-To: <001f01c0ba51$345cfb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> from John Allain at "Mar 31, 2001 09:11:40 pm" Message-ID: <200104010302.f3132Fb00600@bg-tc-ppp1260.monmouth.com> > (TCF = Trenton Computer Festival, in its 26th year, loc=Edison, NJ) > > I've never been, but plan not to miss this year. > On topic. can anyone vouch that Classic Computers > are represented at this thing, and if so, how well? > > John A. > Re: http://www.tcf-nj.org , http://www.tcfshow.com This was the greatest computer festival on the east coast but its gone pretty heavy to the PC crowd over the years. I remember swapping pdp11 and 8 stories and parts in the parking lot and I may still go this year -- I'm looking for a Sparcstation 10 or 20 to add to home... and some VaxStation parts. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ncherry at home.net Sat Mar 31 21:18:10 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: TCF this year: May 5 - 6 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10><5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10><009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys><5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10><3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <001f01c0ba51$345cfb00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3AC69DF2.BB890E97@home.net> John Allain wrote: > > (TCF = Trenton Computer Festival, in its 26th year, loc=Edison, NJ) > > I've never been, but plan not to miss this year. > On topic. can anyone vouch that Classic Computers > are represented at this thing, and if so, how well? The outside section usually has some decent stuff. The inside is the over priced (or regular priced) dyi desktop and laptop computers. My friends drag me along to help assemble a bulk of systems (that's where we get the price break). I usually walk out of there with a least something 'old' from the outside lot. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 31 21:24:37 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Mobo Question Message-ID: <001501c0ba5b$4b701200$9015a38e@98box> Hi, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I recently obtained a mobo that was sitting around a local computer store, and am having a little trouble with it. It's a 386SX motherboard, with onboard parallel, serial, and PS/2 connectors. I was planning on building a little box based on this, but the problem is the lack of ISA or PCI (obviously) slots. Instead, what i have is a bigass connector. It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm thinking this may be an extension to plug in another card with slots, but I have no idea. Can anyone help me? If you need more info let me know, i can supply it. The brands Faraday and WDC are displayed prominently on a lot of the ICs. -Lanny From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Mar 31 21:38:46 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <001501c0ba5b$4b701200$9015a38e@98box> from "Lanny Cox" at Mar 31, 2001 11:54:37 PM Message-ID: <200104010338.UAA05142@calico.litterbox.com> Sounds like it wants a riser with the isa slots on it. Those tended to be proprietary, you may be out of luck. I know Digital Equipment, Packard Bell, Radio Shack, and myriad others produced boards like this. > > Hi, > > I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I recently obtained a mobo that > was sitting around a local computer store, and am having a little trouble > with it. It's a 386SX motherboard, with onboard parallel, serial, and PS/2 > connectors. I was planning on building a little box based on this, but the > problem is the lack of ISA or PCI (obviously) slots. Instead, what i have is > a bigass connector. It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm > thinking this may be an extension to plug in another card with slots, but I > have no idea. Can anyone help me? If you need more info let me know, i can > supply it. The brands Faraday and WDC are displayed prominently on a lot of > the ICs. > > -Lanny > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rdd at smart.net Sat Mar 31 21:49:17 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: SparcServer 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > Those are the XDBus boards, identifying which won't tell you much. The > processor modules plug into the MBus. They're likely to be dual 50 MHz > modules, either with 1 MB secondary cache, or without. Find the part > number for the MBus modules and we can tell you more. Thanks for the help with this! Hmmm, it now appears that I have merely a three CPU system, not an eight CPU system. :-( Ah well. Here's some more info: - One of the FRUs has what I'm guessing to be a single older CPU module with a TMX390Z50GF (SuperSparc CPU?) and a TMX390Z55GF, which I'm guessing to be the SuperSparc cache controller---guessing by what's marked on that IC's heat sink. - The other FRU has what appears to be newer CPU modules, and these modules use a single larger heat sink for both of the larger ICs. In addition, each of these modules has a fuse and a newer style xtal. osc., also apparently 50MHz. The numbers on the ICs are different as well, each having a TMX390Z52GF (SuperSparc CPU?) and a TMX390Z56GF (cache controller?). None of the above modules have what appaars to be a typical Sun part number; I noticed "2617-01 R5V54" marked on a sticker on one of the modules. Also found four 1.2 GB hard drives, two of which will be used up by Solaris. > Nah, your U1 is likely to be a whole lot faster in nearly every respect, > especially if it's the Enterprise 170, with its 100 Mbit ethernet and Rats... the U1 is not nearly as interesting looking compared to the SS 1000, and it's so much smaller... and only a single CPU. :-) Of course, it's surely faster than my 4/110. As this has four 1.2 GB disks in it, I guess it would be reasonable replacement for the 4/110 and it's stack of four shoeboxes with hard drives... although I really do hate to retire the 4/110. Perhaps I should just trim the 4/110 system back to one hard drive, tape drive and CD-ROM drive, and then revive my 3/60 using a then spare shoebox. :-) > fast/wide SCSI. The SS1000 will continue to perform under a much heavier > load, though, if it does indeed have 8 CPUs. Same caveats with any SMP > system. The SM51 isn't a slouch, but it is old and comparatively slow. Alas, only three CPUs it seems. > Total memory in the system and is installed in matched sets of four > modules. Traditionally, modules for this system were available in 8 and 32 > MB sizes. Yeeeehaw!!! I've got the 32MB variety! :-) Well, now it appears that this machine has at least a fair amount of memory, as there are 12 of the 32MB modules on each FRU, which amounts to a total of 768 MB of total RAM... with that much RAM, is it still standard to use double the amount of RAM for swap as a rule of thumb? > Solaris support for the sun4d first appeared in Solaris 2.2 and is > supported in Solaris 8, but "will be dropped any day now". Well, as long as I can install Solaris 8 for now, I'll be happy. > I think this machine is off topic for the list, though, by about two > years. (; Oops... I guess this thread needs to be put on hold for a couple of years. :-) ...unless, of course, my mention of the 4/110 and 3/60 count. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From jss at ou.edu Sat Mar 31 21:58:54 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <001501c0ba5b$4b701200$9015a38e@98box> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331215531.00a6f670@pop.ou.edu> At 3/31/2001 09:24 PM, you wrote: > I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I recently obtained a mobo > that was sitting around a local computer store, and am having a little > trouble with it. It's a 386SX motherboard, with onboard parallel, serial, > and PS/2 connectors. I was planning on building a little box based on > this, but the problem is the lack of ISA or PCI (obviously) slots. > Instead, what i have is a bigass connector. Well, DUH... You plug a big ass into it! > It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm thinking this may be > an extension to plug in another card with slots, but I have no idea. Can > anyone help me? If you need more info let me know, i can supply it. The > brands Faraday and WDC are displayed prominently on a lot of the ICs. Seriously, though, it sounds like you have a motherboard made for some kind of slimline case. Into the bigass connector probably plugs a riser card with the real ISA slots. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Mar 31 21:55:23 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <001501c0ba5b$4b701200$9015a38e@98box> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, Lanny Cox wrote: > a bigass connector. It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm Can you be more specific? There doesn't seem to be full standardization of bigass. It COULD be EISA, or it could be something uniquely proprietary. From red at bears.org Sat Mar 31 21:59:57 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: SparcServer 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > - One of the FRUs has what I'm guessing to be a single older CPU > - The other FRU has what appears to be newer CPU modules, and these Sounds like three SM51 modules to me. > Also found four 1.2 GB hard drives, two of which will be used up by > Solaris. 1.2 GB.. those would be ST31200N drives, then? Bad news, if you've got drives to replace them, I'd say do it. Every time we power off one of our few remaining SSA110s (which are full of those disks), we have about a 50% chance that one or more disks will never spin back up again. I HATE those disks. > Alas, only three CPUs it seems. Still not too bad. > Yeeeehaw!!! I've got the 32MB variety! :-) Well, now it appears that > this machine has at least a fair amount of memory, as there are 12 of > the 32MB modules on each FRU, which amounts to a total of 768 MB of > total RAM... with that much RAM, is it still standard to use double > the amount of RAM for swap as a rule of thumb? Yes, usually machines with that much RAM are solving problems which require lots and lots and lots of memory. (: On the Suns I manage, we do double physical RAM unless some beancounter horribly overspecified the system on the PO. Never do less than 125% physical, or else you can run into trouble with savecore if the machine ever crashes. The biggest system I've ever managed had 48 GB RAM and 250 GB or so of swap---and was appropriately sized for the task. That was in the data warehouse at Amazon.com. I think my NDA is up by now and they've probably changed things enough that I can talk about it. ok r. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 31 17:00:15 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <001501c0ba5b$4b701200$9015a38e@98box> Message-ID: <20010401040004.GOBO29116.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Lanny Cox" > To: > Subject: Mobo Question > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:54:37 -0330 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Hi, > > have no idea. Can anyone help me? If you need more info let me know, i can > supply it. The brands Faraday and WDC are displayed prominently on a lot of > the ICs. Larry, That's Western digital corp. made those boards, Find any old LPX machine with 120pin slot tree card. It's pin compatiable and mounting holes are compatible. I can't help you with jumpers, someone might have it somewhere. There should be a number printed somewhere on the PCB itself. I had one but it was 286 version. Wizard > -Lanny From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Mar 31 22:01:11 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: References: <20010328140811.73319.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.1.20010331225847.00ca3dd0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:24 PM 3/28/01 -0500, R. D. Davis said something like: >On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a section >> of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use >> as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I have >[...] > >My crystal radio used a germanium diode as well - it was one of those >Radio Shack kits back in the 1970's.... still have it somewhere. >Anyway, if you want to start from scratch at building one, crystals >are probably plentiful at the various "new age" & crafts shops. Last >time I checked, there were a few places still selling real "cats >whiskers" (no - you don't catch the neighbor's cat to get one of these >- that won't work). Did you try Antique Radio Supply? Several years >ago, they had catswhiskers listed in their catalog. Alas, they don't >appeart have a functional web site at this time. Website still works, R.D. I just ordered some parts today to finish restoring a friend's '49 Ford radio. http://www.tubesandmore.com/ Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From red at bears.org Sat Mar 31 22:08:46 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:38 2005 Subject: SRCG seeking SMD cables for co-dependent relationship Message-ID: Does anybody have some spare SMD disk cables they can part with? I could make some, but I would have to buy the pieces and, frankly, I don't need a hundred feet of 60-conductor ribbon cable. Drop me a line off-list and I'm sure we can arrange a suitable deal. Thanks! ok r. ps. that's "Silly Retro-Computing Geek" From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Mar 31 22:18:11 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: Message-ID: <000701c0ba62$c4c0b9a0$9015a38e@98box> It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally mentioned. It looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), but is a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does support the riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, serial and parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 12:25 AM Subject: Re: Mobo Question > On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, Lanny Cox wrote: > > a bigass connector. It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm > > Can you be more specific? > There doesn't seem to be full standardization of bigass. > > It COULD be EISA, or it could be something uniquely proprietary. > > From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Mar 31 22:21:58 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: SCSI II Differential-C Terminators - prob. OT Message-ID: Our local Wacky Willy surplus store has got a box of new SCSI II terminators that are labeled "Differential-C". They have the 50 pin mini "D" male connector. Wacky is asking $2.50 each. If anyone is interested in some of these I would be happy to help them out for $5 shipping. I bet I could get 6 or 8 in a mail box. Please reply to me off list. Overseas shipping slightly higher. I don't know if these are rare or not. They are new in sealed bags. Paxton Portland, Oregon USA From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Mar 31 22:25:25 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010331225847.00ca3dd0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Mar 31, 2001 11:01:11 PM Message-ID: <200104010425.VAA05325@calico.litterbox.com> mmm. phosphor-bronze wires. Um... Some kinds of guitar strings are supposedly made, or more likely wound in this. Would that work for a cats whisker? > > Upon the date 12:24 PM 3/28/01 -0500, R. D. Davis said something like: > >On Wed, 28 Mar 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> I have printed instructions on how to build one, down to how to cut a > section > >> of pipe/conduit with ears to screw it down to the block of wood that you use > >> as the base. Anyone know where to get a hunk of crystal these days? I > have > >[...] > > > >My crystal radio used a germanium diode as well - it was one of those > >Radio Shack kits back in the 1970's.... still have it somewhere. > >Anyway, if you want to start from scratch at building one, crystals > >are probably plentiful at the various "new age" & crafts shops. Last > >time I checked, there were a few places still selling real "cats > >whiskers" (no - you don't catch the neighbor's cat to get one of these > >- that won't work). Did you try Antique Radio Supply? Several years > >ago, they had catswhiskers listed in their catalog. Alas, they don't > >appeart have a functional web site at this time. > > Website still works, R.D. I just ordered some parts today to finish > restoring a friend's '49 Ford radio. > http://www.tubesandmore.com/ > > Regards, Chris > -- -- > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jss at ou.edu Sat Mar 31 22:50:33 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <000701c0ba62$c4c0b9a0$9015a38e@98box> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331224711.00a83ff0@pop.ou.edu> At 3/31/2001 10:18 PM, you wrote: >It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally mentioned. >It looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), >but is a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does >support the riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, >serial and parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. Also, the fact that it has all that stuff onboard gives weight to the theory that it went into a slimline machine. I had a machine like that (486SX) once. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 31 23:22:25 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Mobo Question Message-ID: <011e01c0ba6d$9659c100$ec779a8d@ajp166> From: Lanny Cox >It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally mentioned. It >looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), but is >a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does support the >riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, serial and >parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. Thats the case. Most pizza boxen that are under 5" high have to mount the card horizontally so the do the 120 pin connector and riser with the cards plugging into the riser sideways. I have a AT&T P100, Dell 486DX and Dell 386sx/16 all using risers like that. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Mar 31 23:25:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Crystal Radios (was Re: List spammer ID'd) Message-ID: <011f01c0ba6d$96d70750$ec779a8d@ajp166> From: Jim Strickland Any springy material. I used P-bronze, pen springs straightend and even common copper wire. Springy materials work better as you could rely on them maintaining pressure. Allison From fernande at internet1.net Sat Mar 31 23:57:56 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AC6C364.82868A97@internet1.net> Chuck McManis wrote: I don't know if it is a DEC part or not. I didn't make it, but found it at a surplus electronic shop. I wish I had the materials to make my own. I bought some wire, but I don't have the connectors or crimpers. The wires are kind of hard to see on the cable I have. I plan on checking continuity to see how that thing is wired. > If after the above test, you see the characters you type getting echoed on > the screen, then you know that the VT320 is working and the cable does not > have any breaks in it (you don't know if the cable is wired properly but > unfortunately.) You can test proper cable wireing with an ohmmeter or a > lightbulb/battery/two wires circuit. Check to see that pin 1 on one MMJ has > continuity with pin 6 on the other MMJ, then 2 and 5, then 3 and 4 etc. I re-tried a 2 line phone cable I bought at Lowes. I filed the connectors down so I could plug them into the MMJ ports. This time it worked. I must have had everything else mixed up, last time I tried this cable. I am now wandering aimlessly around the console monitor. Anything I should do while here? I don't know how to do much, but I did find that I could "show mem" and it reports 44megs of ram. I also did "show qbus", but it didn't tell me much. I was hoping it would tell me what cards I have installed, and what they are. I did boot the machine... well sort of. It tells me that it has OpenVMS Vax version 6.2, major version 1, minor version 0. It also reports pagefile.sys, not found. The licenses are expired, it was shutdown improperly, the disk is full, and that a whole bunch of files are inaccessible, and then eventually goes back to the >>> prompt. What now? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From CLASSICCMP at kirk.trailing-edge.com Sat Mar 31 19:58:44 2001 From: CLASSICCMP at kirk.trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@kirk.trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Free Mostek SRAM chips Message-ID: <010331205844.2040016a@kirk.trailing-edge.com> Available immediately: Approximately 30 Mostek MK4801AN-1 (aka "4118A") 1K*8 SRAM chips with 1982 date stamps. You pay USPS priority mail shipping ($3.95) - first to reply to me at "shoppa@trailing-edge.com" gets them. Also available: about 100 Motorola MC4024 VCO chips. Same deal. Tim. (shoppa@trailing-edge.com) From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Thu Mar 8 23:04:12 2001 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:44 2005 Subject: OT: Compaq Prolinea4100 setup disk Message-ID: <20010401164219.7DE0936F0A@pandora.worldonline.nl> Hi, Does anyone know where I can find a Prolinea 4100 setup disk? Dozens of those computers around but everybody seems to have thrown away the setup disks. Thanks in advance Wim