From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Mon Jan 1 00:15:35 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:58 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK... All this chat about the Hayes Cronograph has peeked my interest. In the last 5 years I've only seen one. Anybody have an idea about how many of these were made? I knew I should have bought one of these when they were on the market... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > Doh! forgot to mention it does 300 and 1200 baud only... > > clint > > On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > > > > Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? > > WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. > > ALso, is it DCE or DTE? > > > > I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but > > it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . > > > > > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________ > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 00:49:03 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Anyone have a 201 or 301 dataset? or an 801 ACU? Message-ID: I'm looking for about 2 or 3 201/301 datasets, and at least one 801 Automatic Call Unit, and a few of the synchronous Bell datasets would be nice also, I want to add dial-in capability to my Interdatas and Perkin-Elmers. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Jan 1 00:49:26 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> <3A4FF8A9.693E700D@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3A502876.B2A4C0AA@arrl.net> no wrote: > > Fred deBros wrote: > > > > That is what the VRE01 is: Orange...actually more yellow like, single colour > > 22 in or more across flatpanel display....geeky!. > > If someone has the xconfig file for the toshiba 3200 display with linux, > > that may help me fine tune that VRE01... > > The VRE01 displays are still available in Canada and US. > > > > Fred > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 4:26 PM > > Subject: Re: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display > > > > > I used to have a Toshiba T3200 with a plasma display. It did 8bit > > > orange-scale fine. Used to play Testdrive! on it. Recently plasma > > > displays went COLOR. Now thats cool. Power requirements are way off LCD > > > though which is important for portable applications. > > > > > > I have a new ELO color touchscreen that Linux, Netbsd, and openbsd don't > > > like. Again, OS/2 Warp likes it and runs it fine. I'm using it as a car > > > MP3 player but it is much more capable than that. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > -- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > > President > > > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > > > 30 Greenwood Rd. > > > Asheville, NC 28803 > > > 828-277-5959 > > > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > > > THETechnoid@home.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Last week I was browsing one of my early 90s DEC catalogs and, noticing > the VRE01, it struck me that in all my years of rummaging thru surplus > and used equip. shops that I had never run across one of these. > > Could you provide any pricing info, locations ? > > nick o Wouldn't you know it....... just went surfing on eBay and ran across this.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1204975201 ....since i've already got 2 m76's guess i'll stay out of the bidding. Happy New Year to all!! nick o From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 1 02:21:47 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Anyone have a 201 or 301 dataset? or an 801 ACU? References: Message-ID: <002301c073cb$e22b0780$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Do you have these units running, Will? I may have a 201 down in the pit, if I haven't already tossed it. It requires a 5-button phone to go with it, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:49 PM Subject: Anyone have a 201 or 301 dataset? or an 801 ACU? > I'm looking for about 2 or 3 201/301 datasets, and at least one 801 > Automatic Call Unit, and a few of the synchronous Bell datasets would be > nice also, I want to add dial-in capability to my Interdatas and > Perkin-Elmers. > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 1 06:15:49 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Happy New... Message-ID: <10101011215.ZM24649@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Having just surfaced after the fireworks and champagne party last night, I thought I'd wish you all a Happy New Year, Happy New Millennium, and welcome to the 21st century... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Jan 1 08:01:08 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Cleaning Head on TK70/TK50 Message-ID: <3A508DA4.27D74511@idirect.com> Hey - my first e-mail of the new millennium - somehow it seems no different. Happy New Year EVERYONE. May this year, decade, century and millennium bring us all what is truly best for the development of all lives on this planet. I have been using a TK70 for about 6 months and yesterday, it gave up. The error is that it will not read or write, so I tend to assume that the head must be cleaned. Of course, it could be an electronic circuit, but the symptoms (a slow deterioration over about 3 tapes) suggest otherwise. Plus, I have the isopropyl cleaning fluid and a stock of cleaning swabs. However, having never done this before, I don't know how to achieve access to the head and if there are other parts to clean as well. The head is held down by two springs which allow the head to be gently raised. But only so far. Will it stretch the springs too much to lift the head high enough to be cleaned - or should the springs be detached first and how might that be done? Are there any other questions that I should be asking - that someone who has done this before knows about because they found out after the fact? Thank you in advance for any help. I assume that the procedure for a TK50 (of which I also have one) is about the same, but if not, please indicate if there are any differences between a TK50 and a TK70 in regard to cleaning the head or anything else that a user would want to be aware of. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jan 1 08:24:00 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 06:04:36PM -0800 References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <20010101082400.A13987@mrbill.net> On Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 06:04:36PM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >The VRE01 displays are still available in Canada and US. > Where and how much? These sound seriously cool! I've always thought Gas > Plasma displays were very cool. > Zane I've got a couple of the Toshiba laptops with the orange gas plasma displays, that I"d *love* to trade for one of the VRE01 displays, if anybody has one (or anything similar, like even a 640x480 PC-compatible LCD, etc) they'd like to trade.. Bill -- Bill Bradford | "Do you expect me to talk?" mrbill@mrbill.net | "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" Austin, TX | -- "Goldfinger", 1964 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 1 08:25:37 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Cleaning Head on TK70/TK50 In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Cleaning Head on TK70/TK50" (Jan 1, 9:01) References: <3A508DA4.27D74511@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10101011425.ZM24717@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 1, 9:01, Jerome Fine wrote: > Hey - my first e-mail of the new millennium - somehow it seems > no different. Happy New Year EVERYONE. May this year, > decade, century and millennium bring us all what is truly best for > the development of all lives on this planet. Happy New Year, Jerome! (and everyone else, of course). > I have been using a TK70 for about 6 months and yesterday, it > gave up. The error is that it will not read or write, so I tend > to assume that the head must be cleaned. Of course, it could > be an electronic circuit, but the symptoms (a slow deterioration > over about 3 tapes) suggest otherwise. Plus, I have the isopropyl > cleaning fluid and a stock of cleaning swabs. I have a similar situation with a TK50. > However, having never done this before, I don't know how to achieve > access to the head and if there are other parts to clean as well. The > head is held down by two springs which allow the head to be gently > raised. But only so far. Will it stretch the springs too much to lift > the head high enough to be cleaned - or should the springs be > detached first and how might that be done? Are there any other > questions that I should be asking - that someone who has done this > before knows about because they found out after the fact? > > Thank you in advance for any help. I assume that the procedure > for a TK50 (of which I also have one) is about the same, but if > not, please indicate if there are any differences between a TK50 > and a TK70 in regard to cleaning the head or anything else that > a user would want to be aware of. It's such a long time since I looked inside a TK that I can't remember how to do this -- so I'd be interested too. BTW, does a standard DLT cleaning tape work in a TK50/70? I can borrow one from work. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Mon Jan 1 09:39:52 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> <3A4FF8A9.693E700D@arrl.net> Message-ID: <001401c07409$315e1170$0100a8c0@jack> > Could you provide any pricing info, locations ? > > nick o Checkem out on google.com, therebare three resellers, one is ELI Heffron here in Boston. he wants 250 bux for his....brand new, another bdp in florida want 350. pricey! i am looking for another whizzz who can make them going on a sync-on-green card. my xconfig almost works. almost is not good enough! Fred From smithjhl at remconline.net Mon Jan 1 10:19:09 2001 From: smithjhl at remconline.net (Jeff Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 portable Message-ID: <3A50ADFD.2A7AE8BA@remconline.net> I have this computer in mint condition. Would like to move out of my closet. What is the best wat to do so and what is a reasonable price? I am not on the list so would appreciate direct email. Thanks. Jeff Smith From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 1 11:08:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: <20010101082400.A13987@mrbill.net> References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> <20010101082400.A13987@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >I've got a couple of the Toshiba laptops with the orange gas plasma >displays, that I"d *love* to trade for one of the VRE01 displays, if >anybody has one (or anything similar, like even a 640x480 PC-compatible >LCD, etc) they'd like to trade.. One part to consider is that both Compaq and IBM, as well as others I'm sure, used VGA resolution plasma displays in some of thier 'lunchbox' portables. I know that the IBM P70 used it and I'm almost certain that the Compaq Portable III used one as well. Neither of these panels were really integrated into the system case itself and might be adaptable to other uses if one found a parts machine. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Jan 1 13:15:14 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Cleaning instructions for TK50/70 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010101111514.00986b70@192.168.42.129> Happy New Year, folks. This one saw a big milestone for me as I took over management of my own mail servers. It will soon see the establishment of FTP, a maintenance node, and (possibly) a caching Usenet server. Depends on how adventurous I get. ;-) Anyway... for Pete and Jerome, who seem to be most confused about cleaning TK50/70 drives, I present the following. First and foremost, do NOT lift the head up against those springs! I'm assuming you two already know to pull the drive out of the system, and take the top cover off. What you do then is unhook the pickup leader, and reel it out of the way onto the take-up reel. Next, locate the little plastic guard directly in front of the head. It's held on with a single screw. Remove said screw, remove the guard, clean head with swabs and alcohol (should be 99% isopropyl -- don't use the 91% due to water content), and reassemble. All should now be well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 1 13:37:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: References: <20010101082400.A13987@mrbill.net> <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> <20010101082400.A13987@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >>I've got a couple of the Toshiba laptops with the orange gas plasma >>displays, that I"d *love* to trade for one of the VRE01 displays, if >>anybody has one (or anything similar, like even a 640x480 PC-compatible >>LCD, etc) they'd like to trade.. > > One part to consider is that both Compaq and IBM, as well as >others I'm sure, used VGA resolution plasma displays in some of thier >'lunchbox' portables. I know that the IBM P70 used it and I'm almost >certain that the Compaq Portable III used one as well. Neither of >these panels were really integrated into the system case itself and >might be adaptable to other uses if one found a parts machine. The coolist Gas Plasma system I've seen was a Sun Workstation that was a 'transportable' that used a display the size of the VRE01 display. I know that Bethesda in DC had a bunch of these. Sort of like a Sun Voyager, but a LOT bigger. I saw some in about '92. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 1 13:42:38 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Cleaning instructions for TK50/70 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010101111514.00986b70@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: >take the top cover off. What you do then is unhook the pickup leader, and >reel it out of the way onto the take-up reel. > > Next, locate the little plastic guard directly in front of the >head. It's >held on with a single screw. Remove said screw, remove the guard, clean >head with swabs and alcohol (should be 99% isopropyl -- don't use the 91% >due to water content), and reassemble. All should now be well. This is how I do TK50/TK70 Drives, but I go a little further. BTW, make sure they're not cotton swabs. I remove the leader from the takeup real, and make sure I give the cartridge slot and the *entire* tape path a good cleaning. You can do the same with a TZ30, but you'll need a small screwdriver to carefully remove the circuit board from the top of the drive. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 1 14:41:06 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Original Apple I on TV Message-ID: <200101012041.MAA10070@stockholm.ptloma.edu> This morning the History Channel covered the Apple I in their History's Lost And Found (it was on at noon Pacific time). Not sure when it will be rebroadcast, but keep an eye out. By the way, if you want the original Apple I prototype, you'll have to bust into the LO*OP Centre in Palo Alto. >;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am Dyslexic of Brog. Fesistence is rutile. You will be asmilsilated. ----- From red at bears.org Mon Jan 1 18:00:20 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: cleaning QIC? Message-ID: I need to repair a partially torn tape, and remove some sticky gunk from the media itself. Hopefully I'll be able to do this in a way that will allow me to read the tape one last time to get an image of the data. This particular tape got gooed up in a tape drive which had a decayed capstan. It didn't get gooed up too badly, but it looks like it was enough to cause a headache. I was able to clean the goo off the cassette mechanics by using a nr. 7 X-Acto blade dipped in alcohol. All went well with that. When I tried to read the tape to make an image, it progressed to a certain point on the tape and gave up. Examining the tape revealed the following defects: * traces of capstan goo * a small, ca. 1/16" tear in the tape I'm assuming I can use some splicing tape on the tear, but what can I use to clean the goo off the tape? Alcohol worked well on the cassette, but I've heard that it can cause the oxide to separate from the substrate if used on the tape itself. Any suggestions or speculations on my chances of succeeding would be appreciated. I'm in a bit of a bind. ok r. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 1 13:20:51 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: WTB: datasheet for intel compatiable 8042 ic. In-Reply-To: <3A4E3558.EB7EDB27@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <20010102002013.DLWD1081.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> This is microcontroller chip commonly found on clones till post pentium packaged in 40 pin DIP. After that, non-legacy and embedded 8042's in chipsets in newer boards and later. Right now I need the pin info where clock goes into that 8042 so I could bypass current clock source. Motherboard's clock generator is sick. Most of it is partially working, which is very common on one brand chipmaker. !! Do it by injecting 8042 directly with crystal xtal or use 4 pin oscillator ic. Need Mhz as well, 12Mhz? Search on 'net gave nothing and Intel had EOL'ed that 8042 2 years ago. >:-P Also I'll have to inject 24mhz into the SMC super i/o ic as well, already knew can find datasheet for that. I have seen partial working clock generators more than once in one or two brands chip generator and think this is quality issues. Cheers, Wizard From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 1 18:30:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: WTB: datasheet for intel compatiable 8042 ic. In-Reply-To: <20010102002013.DLWD1081.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Jan 1, 1 07:20:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1339 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010102/1336fdab/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 1 18:35:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: cleaning QIC? In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Jan 1, 1 07:00:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1370 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010102/405cf92b/attachment.ksh From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Jan 1 18:54:41 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: cleaning QIC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Whatever chemical you choose to clean the tape with, I'd recommend testing on an identical spare tape... This will allow you to fine tune how much rubbing force, you can use, and see if the chemical releases the oxide... clint On Mon, 1 Jan 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > I need to repair a partially torn tape, and remove some sticky gunk from > the media itself. Hopefully I'll be able to do this in a way that will > allow me to read the tape one last time to get an image of the data. > > This particular tape got gooed up in a tape drive which had a decayed > capstan. It didn't get gooed up too badly, but it looks like it was enough > to cause a headache. > > I was able to clean the goo off the cassette mechanics by using a nr. 7 > X-Acto blade dipped in alcohol. All went well with that. > > When I tried to read the tape to make an image, it progressed to a certain > point on the tape and gave up. Examining the tape revealed the following > defects: > > * traces of capstan goo > * a small, ca. 1/16" tear in the tape > > I'm assuming I can use some splicing tape on the tear, but what can I use > to clean the goo off the tape? Alcohol worked well on the cassette, but > I've heard that it can cause the oxide to separate from the substrate if > used on the tape itself. > > Any suggestions or speculations on my chances of succeeding would be > appreciated. I'm in a bit of a bind. > > ok > r. > > > From rcini at optonline.net Mon Jan 1 19:41:39 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: OT: Need disk image - QEMM Message-ID: Hello, all: I'm in the process of creating disk images of various programs and utilities. I came across my copy of QEMM, the memory mamager from Quarterdeck. My disk 3 is bad. Does anyone have a copy of this that they can send me? Thanks. Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jan 1 20:25:39 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: AFP: VAXSimPlus Docs Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010101182155.02aeeeb0@208.226.86.10> (AFP = Available for Postage) I've got a set of three shrink wrapped docs for VMS VAXSimPlus Users Guide Update to the Users Guide Getting Started Guide All in that VAXish orangy color. Perhaps they are collectible as the software product is mentioned in the paper on RAID that was discussed here recently :-) Contact me off list if you'd like 'em. --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 1 20:54:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Need disk image - QEMM References: Message-ID: <001c01c07467$606291e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It would be helpful to know which release of QEMM you need. There were eight, IIRC. I have one of them, but I don't remember which release. It might take a little while, but Ido know it's in this pile of about 100 diskettes right on the table. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini" To: "ClassCompList" Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: OT: Need disk image - QEMM > Hello, all: > > I'm in the process of creating disk images of various programs and > utilities. I came across my copy of QEMM, the memory mamager from > Quarterdeck. My disk 3 is bad. > > Does anyone have a copy of this that they can send me? Thanks. > > Rich > > Rich Cini > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ > > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jan 1 22:02:55 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: datasheet for intel compatiable 8042 ic. Message-ID: <020b01c07470$e4624ae0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: jpero@sympatico.ca This is microcontroller chip commonly found on clones till post pentium packaged in 40 pin DIP. After that, non-legacy and embedded 8042's in chipsets in newer boards and later. Right now I need the pin info where clock goes into that 8042 so I could bypass current clock source. Motherboard's clock generator is sick. Most of it is partially working, which is very common on one brand chipmaker. !! Do it by injecting 8042 directly with crystal xtal or use 4 pin oscillator ic. Need Mhz as well, 12Mhz? Pin 2 is X1 (clockin) and Pin 3 is clock out. Same pinout as 8041/8741/8742 Allison From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Jan 1 22:59:05 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: ; from jhellige@earthlink.net on Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 12:08:04PM -0500 References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> <20010101082400.A13987@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20010101225905.F20223@mrbill.net> On Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 12:08:04PM -0500, Jeff Hellige wrote: > One part to consider is that both Compaq and IBM, as well as > others I'm sure, used VGA resolution plasma displays in some of thier > 'lunchbox' portables. I know that the IBM P70 used it and I'm almost > certain that the Compaq Portable III used one as well. Neither of > these panels were really integrated into the system case itself and > might be adaptable to other uses if one found a parts machine. > Jeff I've got a pair of non-working P70s that have good displays as well (they were working at one time, but now wont power up). Bill -- Bill Bradford | "Do you expect me to talk?" mrbill@mrbill.net | "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" Austin, TX | -- "Goldfinger", 1964 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jan 1 23:28:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: FT: DELQA User Manual, DHV11 Technical Manual Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010101211946.02b521e0@208.226.86.10> For what ever reason I've ended up with a couple of spares of these two manuals, manual #1 is the DELQA Users Manual it details everything you need to know to test, program, install, and configure the M7516 DELQA Ethernet interface. The second is the technical manual for a DHV11, the back has been creased a bit but otherwise it is in good shape and still has the tear-out maintenance card intact. I'm interested in trading these 1:1 for other DEC technical manuals. On my want list are: KA630-TM KA640-TM KA655-TM KA670-TM DEQNA-TM (this will complete my set :-) CXA16-TM (or -UG) RQDX3-TM (or -UG) TQK70-TM (or -UG) These are the ones I _know_ I can use, but I'm interested in all documentation. --Chuck From BGarvey355 at aol.com Mon Jan 1 23:38:36 2001 From: BGarvey355 at aol.com (BGarvey355@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed Message-ID: <45.74bcc0.2782c35c@aol.com> I'm new to this list but not to classic computers, well...to classic IBM's I am, ask me about Atari computers though, then we can talk ;-), which is the reason for this post. I picked up a couple of monitors from a friend of mine and I'd like to find out what they are for and can I utilize them on other classic computers in my collection The first monitor is an IBM 5151, it has a 9pin connector on it's built in cable The second monitor is actually a terminal I think, it's a 3179-2, and it has some strange connectors on the back of it, including a 25 pin for the monitor itself coming from the pedestal base. Is there any use for these monitors other than there intended system? thanks in advance, Brent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010102/709d30ff/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 2 00:00:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: switch settings for a Mistubishi MR535-U00 ??? References: <020b01c07470$e4624ae0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000c01c07481$57c36400$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've got a couple of these that I'd like to press into service, as they're the right size and shape. Can somebody tell me what the switches do? thanks, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 9:02 PM Subject: Re: datasheet for intel compatiable 8042 ic. > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > > > This is microcontroller chip commonly found on clones till post > pentium packaged in 40 pin DIP. After that, non-legacy and embedded > 8042's in chipsets in newer boards and later. > > Right now I need the pin info where clock goes into that 8042 so I > could bypass current clock source. Motherboard's clock generator is > sick. Most of it is partially working, which is very common on one > brand chipmaker. !! Do it by injecting 8042 directly with crystal > xtal or use 4 pin oscillator ic. Need Mhz as well, 12Mhz? > > > Pin 2 is X1 (clockin) and Pin 3 is clock out. > > Same pinout as 8041/8741/8742 > > Allison > > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Jan 2 00:21:23 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:59 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed References: <45.74bcc0.2782c35c@aol.com> Message-ID: <001501c07484$3b4bc3a0$ac14f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> The IBM 5151 is the monitor which came with the first IBM PC (to be distinguished from the 5100-5120) model 5150, circa late 1981. It is a monochrome green screen monitor with a 12 inch display and very susceptible to screen burn. -W ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Monitor help needed > I'm new to this list but not to classic computers, well...to classic IBM's I > am, ask me about Atari computers though, then we can talk ;-), which is the > reason for this post. I picked up a couple of monitors from a friend of mine > and I'd like to find out what they are for and can I utilize them on other > classic computers in my collection > > The first monitor is an IBM 5151, it has a 9pin connector on it's built in > cable > The second monitor is actually a terminal I think, it's a 3179-2, and it has > some strange connectors on the back of it, including a 25 pin for the monitor > itself coming from the pedestal base. > > Is there any use for these monitors other than there intended system? > > thanks in advance, > Brent > From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Tue Jan 2 01:36:29 2001 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: switch settings for a Mistubishi MR535-U00 ??? In-Reply-To: <000c01c07481$57c36400$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000601c0748e$b87aaf80$6501a8c0@thinkpad> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:01 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: switch settings for a Mistubishi MR535-U00 ??? > > > I've got a couple of these that I'd like to press into service, as they're > the right size and shape. Can somebody tell me what the switches do? There is a very nice set of diagrams in HTML format starting here: http://www.pc-disk.de/pcdisk/h/3000/2746.htm or in ASCII format here: http://www.pc-disk.de/pcdisk/h/ASCII/2746.TXT From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 2 08:01:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > Is it a 21-pin SCART/P=E9ritel connector? In that case, I'd suggest > > extracting RGB signals from it. Then you won't have to worry about TV > > I assume you know for a fact that this computer does implement the RGB > pins. Not all devices do (it's _very_ rare to find a VCR that outputs RGB > signals), although I would guess most computers do. I know for a fact that it does implement RGB, but I wouldn't know on what kind of connector, since the Thomson micros are rare beasts outside SECAM country. I don't really see the point of VTRs outputting RGB, since the signal on the tape is not. One would assume that most computers indeed are RGB capable, but one is quickly disilussioned once encountering them IRL. It seems to be rather rare to be implemented on cheaper micros, at least externally. My new Spectravideo does not, nor do any VIC-equipped micros. On a happier note, I just came home from a recycling centre, where I managed to find two C128D keyboards at 25 crowns (2,5 USD) a piece. > One thing I built years ago was a cable with a SCART plug on one end and > a box on the other with 6 BNC sockets (composite in, composite out, R, G, > B, Blanking), 4 RCA phono sockets (left audio in, left audio out, right > audio in, right audio out) and a 5 pin DIN socket (the various control > lines). It makes connecting SCART sockets to normal monitors, video > sources, etc a lot easier. I've been intending to build such a set of cables, inspired by video compying kits. I suppose BNC would be the best connectors. It would save a lot of effort, since one does not need to make special cables for every monitor and computer combination you've got. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 2 10:10:06 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 100 portable In-Reply-To: <3A50ADFD.2A7AE8BA@remconline.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010102101006.366ff2ea@mailhost.intellistar.net> Jeff, They usually bring a decent price on E-bay. Joe At 11:19 AM 1/1/01 -0500, you wrote: >I have this computer in mint condition. Would like to move out of my >closet. What is the best wat to do so and what is a reasonable price? >I am not on the list so would appreciate direct email. Thanks. > >Jeff Smith > > > From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 2 08:13:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: <20001231160602.XSVU21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I just bought two printerport Xircom ethernet adapters for 9bucks apiece > on Ebay. Only three of the 25 available sold so there are still units > available. > > I got two because they were so cheap. I wanted one for my Atari ST. > There is a mod out there to run one on the ST by breaking some signals out > and routing them to the cartridge port but I can't find it. Right now I'm > running MiNT on this machine with 4mb ram (can't have any more). Do you have a HD? I'd like to run MiNT, but I'm uncertain about its usefulness without a hard drive. The other problem is that the two parport ethernet drivers for the Atari require either a D-Link DE600 or an RTL8012 based adaptor, and AFAIK, Xircom ones are compatible with neither. > It is networked but via a PPP serial link at 19200bps.... The ppp server > is Tserve for OS/2. An OS/2 junkie? That was a while ago (not counting the state railways and the local supermarket). I've been intending to install Warp on one of my new Pentiums (I've already got 2.1 on a 486). It doesn't seem to like ATAPI drives, though. Cor, I feel so modern, having got my first 100 MHz computer. From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jan 2 08:47:44 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Cleaning instructions for TK50/70 References: <3.0.5.32.20010101111514.00986b70@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3A51EA10.4CDB6418@idirect.com> >Bruce Lane wrote: > Happy New Year, folks. This one saw a big milestone for me as I took over > management of my own mail servers. It will soon see the establishment of > FTP, a maintenance node, and (possibly) a caching Usenet server. Depends on > how adventurous I get. ;-) Jerome Fine replies: Congratulations!! I am staying with that old RT-11 stuff, so I don't think I will ever get that far, but who knows. Have fun! > Anyway... for Pete and Jerome, who seem to be most confused about cleaning > TK50/70 drives, I present the following. First and foremost, do NOT lift > the head up against those springs! Well, I will admit to lifting the head and stretching the springs just a bit to see how it went, but I stopped far short of taking the head off and damaging the springs - or at least that is my assumption since the drive works very well still - but thank you VERY MUCH for the warning. And yes, I do see the same construction on the TK50, so I will be careful there as well. > I'm assuming you two already know to pull the drive out of the system, and > take the top cover off. What you do then is unhook the pickup leader, and > reel it out of the way onto the take-up reel. That much is very plain. I have had to replace a leader or two, so that part was not too difficult. > Next, locate the little plastic guard directly in front of the head. It's > held on with a single screw. Remove said screw, remove the guard, clean > head with swabs and alcohol (should be 99% isopropyl -- don't use the 91% > due to water content), and reassemble. All should now be well. Did it! The TK70 now works well!!!! GREAT!!!!!!! Thank YOU!!!!! I used a container of fluid from a head cleaning kit from a TK25. I don't know the exact contents, but it did the job. I used those wood Qtips and tossed it having used just one end as I assume that even hand oils might damage to head and the act of cleaning certainly places some hand oil on the other swap head.. I also attempted to clean the dust off the drive in the head area AND did the same cleaning to the guard while it was off as well. Finally, I did a light cleaning of the leader on both sides. Both the tape drive head and the guard seemed to have little noticeable dirt, but each took two or three swabs to clean them before no more dirt was found. I also looked at a TK50 and the guard construction is the same. I will clean any TK50/TK70 head now before the next use. Thank you also to Megan, but where can that cleaning apparatus be obtained and for what price. The Qtip method is very inexpensive (about one cent each) and they take very little liquid unless I squirt more than is required. About one drop is all that is needed. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From kevan at heydon.org Tue Jan 2 09:49:30 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Convergent server available in UK (fwd) Message-ID: Reply directly to the original sender if you are interested. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:48:04 -0000 From: dinakoski vebel Subject: Server available Hi, I have a convergent technologies mightyframe 6000A available for free collection. Comes complete with manuals, various tapes (sql, W/processor etc) and has a DC600 SCSI tape drive, 2 small hard disks, 40 RS232 channels. It boots to a point then hangs. Looks like disk problem. I also have numerous dot matrix printers (small & wide carriage), 17" non working monitor, 3 UPS's (not working) and various other odds. If you are interested, reply to this email to arrange collection. You will need a small van or galaxy car to remove all, the mainframe is not big. I am based in Corby, northamtonshire. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Jan 2 11:16:43 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed In-Reply-To: <001501c07484$3b4bc3a0$ac14f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Jan 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > The IBM 5151 is the monitor which came with the first > IBM PC (to be distinguished from the 5100-5120) model > 5150, circa late 1981. It is a monochrome green screen > monitor with a 12 inch display and very susceptible to > screen burn. Gee. I thought that they came from the factory pre-installed with customer choice of Lotus rotated L, or WordPervert status bar. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Jan 2 12:35:14 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed In-Reply-To: ; from cisin@xenosoft.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 09:16:43AM -0800 References: <001501c07484$3b4bc3a0$ac14f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20010102123514.M20223@mrbill.net> On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 09:16:43AM -0800, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Gee. > I thought that they came from the factory pre-installed with customer > choice of Lotus rotated L, or WordPervert status bar. On that thread, anybody know where its possible to obtain a copy of WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS these days? I used it for EVERYTHING during high school and college, and would love to use it again for some of the things i'm working on instead of MS Word.. Bill -- Bill Bradford | "Do you expect me to talk?" mrbill@mrbill.net | "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" Austin, TX | -- "Goldfinger", 1964 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 2 12:36:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed In-Reply-To: <45.74bcc0.2782c35c@aol.com> from "BGarvey355@aol.com" at Jan 2, 1 00:38:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1309 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010102/7ebd580c/attachment.ksh From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jan 2 12:51:44 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DEC trellis software manual (Kansas City) Message-ID: I was digging through a box of DEC manuals and I came across a DEC trellis manual. From my searches I have found that it was a DEC object oriented language. Does anybody want it? You pay USPS mailing costs. probably about $3. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 2 12:47:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts In-Reply-To: from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 2, 1 03:01:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010102/abcdd2a7/attachment.ksh From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Tue Jan 2 13:27:52 2001 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed In-Reply-To: <20010102123514.M20223@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000101c074f2$197cf0a0$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Bill Bradford asked > On that thread, anybody know where its possible to obtain a copy of > WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS these days? I used it for EVERYTHING during > high school and college, and would love to use it again for some of the > things i'm working on instead of MS Word.. Presumably you are looking for a legal copy (of course). Copies are always available on ebay for a reasonable price (usually between $1 to $50 depending on "condition"). From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 2 13:44:14 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: switch settings for a Mistubishi MR535-U00 ??? In-Reply-To: <000c01c07481$57c36400$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <020b01c07470$e4624ae0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010102133435.027508c0@pc> At 11:00 PM 1/1/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: >I've got a couple of these that I'd like to press into service, as they're >the right size and shape. Can somebody tell me what the switches do? Boy, I must be getting old if I can supply answers like this. I had a pair of them in a 386/20 ten-plus years ago. I have a poorly faxed spec sheet: drive type 17, SW1 is termination (leave open (off) if installed as a second drive), and SW2 is the drive selection. They're not binary, they're sequential, so shorting the first pair makes it drive 1, only the second pair makes it drive 2, etc. In the same folder, I have the spec sheets for the WD RLL controller, if you need those. I can't quite read what the rightmost four on SW2 do, but it gives me the impression they stay "off" or at whatever config they ship with. - John From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 2 14:04:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 102 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've just picked up a Tandy 102 and it has what appears to be an option ROM in M11 under the accessory cover. It is labled as follows: Guardean SS03 (c) TSI. 100 V9 Any clues as to what it is? No additional programs appear on the menu. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From menadeau at mediaone.net Tue Jan 2 14:19:25 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 102 question References: Message-ID: <0b4501c074f9$4d5ea1a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I believe it's a Traveling Software enhancement, although I can't remember what it does. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 3:04 PM Subject: Tandy Model 102 question > I've just picked up a Tandy 102 and it has what appears to be > an option ROM in M11 under the accessory cover. It is labled as > follows: > > Guardean SS03 > (c) TSI. 100 V9 > > Any clues as to what it is? No additional programs appear on the menu. > > Thanks > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 2 14:54:51 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: switch settings for a Mistubishi MR535-U00 ??? References: <020b01c07470$e4624ae0$bd769a8d@ajp166> <4.3.2.7.0.20010102133435.027508c0@pc> Message-ID: <004301c074fe$40a5d960$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Actually, only the upper three of the rightmost four switches stay off. The one marked 'R' has to be on for radial selection to work. I don't know what happens if it's off, but that's no matter. I think it 's intended for use where there's only one drive. This isn't for a PC, so the WD controller probably isn't relevant. I'm setting up to use a WD 1002-05 to handle both the floppy and hard disks on a small SBC. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: Re: switch settings for a Mistubishi MR535-U00 ??? > At 11:00 PM 1/1/01 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >I've got a couple of these that I'd like to press into service, as they're > >the right size and shape. Can somebody tell me what the switches do? > > Boy, I must be getting old if I can supply answers like this. > I had a pair of them in a 386/20 ten-plus years ago. I have > a poorly faxed spec sheet: drive type 17, SW1 is termination > (leave open (off) if installed as a second drive), and > SW2 is the drive selection. They're not binary, they're > sequential, so shorting the first pair makes it drive 1, > only the second pair makes it drive 2, etc. In the same > folder, I have the spec sheets for the WD RLL controller, > if you need those. I can't quite read what the rightmost > four on SW2 do, but it gives me the impression they stay > "off" or at whatever config they ship with. > > - John > > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Tue Jan 2 17:58:22 2001 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DEC find Message-ID: Wow! I hit gold! Wacky Willy's... I cleaned the Vaughn St. location of every DEC bit I could find. Here's what I found: M7606 AF, MicroVAX II w/1MB RAM and floating point 2x M7608 BC/BF, 4-Mbyte RAM for microVAX II (Q22-bus) M7164, Q-bus SDI disk adaptor, Q-22 (1 of 2)(what does that mean? Guess I need another board) M7516 YM, Ethernet interface (replaces DEQNA) - what do I need to hook it up? M3106, 4-line double-buffered async EIA MUX, with modem control; replaces M7957 - What do I do with this? It has a cable attachaed, p/n BC05L-03 3x M3104 DHV11, 8-line async DMA MUX M7551 CA, 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM (what will this work with?) M8053 MA, M8053 with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) - huh? Non-DEC DEC stuff: Sigma Info Systems DZV11, some WDC chips on it and two 40-pin connectors Emulex TU0210401 National Semiconductor NS638 - tons of chips, looks like memory Now, what do I do with all this stuff? What will work with my 11/84 and how do I set it up? My 11/84 is bare right now - just CPU and some memory. I don't even remember what exactly is in there right now, I'll have to go check later. The MicroVAX II CPU was a surprise. Is there anything I can do with that? Anyone in the Portland, OR area (or other areas of OR/WA with a bit of planning) need any of this stuff or have something that I could use with it? Oh yeah - other finds at Wacky Willy's were still shrink-wrapped copies of DOS 6.21 and Windows 3.11, and a couple of 12v SLA batteries. -- /-----------------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ kd7bcy@teleport.com | | http://www.geocities.com/jrollins.geo/ | | List admin for orham and ham-mac at www.qth.net | | KD7BCY pdxham at www.egroups.com | \-----------------------------------------------/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 2 20:03:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DEC find In-Reply-To: from "John Rollins" at Jan 02, 2001 03:58:22 PM Message-ID: <200101030203.SAA07312@shell1.aracnet.com> > Wow! I hit gold! Wacky Willy's... I cleaned the Vaughn St. location > of every DEC bit I could find. Here's what I found: > Non-DEC DEC stuff: > Emulex TU0210401 Maybe a Tape controller? > National Semiconductor NS638 - tons of chips, looks like memory Given what you got it with I'd guess that it's MVII RAM. It sounds vaguely familiar. > Now, what do I do with all this stuff? What will work with my 11/84 > and how do I set it up? My 11/84 is bare right now - just CPU and > some memory. I don't even remember what exactly is in there right > now, I'll have to go check later. The MicroVAX II CPU was a surprise. > Is there anything I can do with that? Anyone in the Portland, OR area > (or other areas of OR/WA with a bit of planning) need any of this > stuff or have something that I could use with it? I'm guessing all the boards you just got are Q-Bus, the 11/84 is Unibus. However, I think you can pull the CPU and RAM out of the 11/84, and put them in the Q-Bus chassis and have a Q-Bus 11/83. Wait a MINUTE! Did you get a chassis with all these boards, or just the boards?!?! I'm in the area and think I've got some spare RQDX2 disk controllers (trust me you don't want them). Not sure if I've got any spare RQDX3's, but probably do. Of course if you didn't get a chassis, these won't do you any good as they're Q-Bus. I've got a few Unibus boards, but no spare Unibus drive controllers. Warning, right now, none of the stuff is accessable. > Oh yeah - other finds at Wacky Willy's were still shrink-wrapped > copies of DOS 6.21 and Windows 3.11, and a couple of 12v SLA > batteries. Any Sun stuff? Hillsboro had three Sun 1962B monitors, all dead :^( Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jan 2 21:27:38 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DEC find In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010102191514.0326eeb0@208.226.86.10> At 03:58 PM 1/2/01 -0800, you wrote: >Wow! I hit gold! Wacky Willy's... I cleaned the Vaughn St. location of >every DEC bit I could find. Very cool, you've found a bunch of Q-bus bits, not Unibus bits. So please don't mix them: >M7606 AF, MicroVAX II w/1MB RAM and floating point >2x M7608 BC/BF, 4-Mbyte RAM for microVAX II (Q22-bus) The three above, put together into 3 Q/CD slots of a Q-Bus backplane, form the basis for a MicroVAX II (and VAXStation II, and VAXStation II/GPX) this is the MicroVAX CPU and 8MB of memory for it (creating a 9MB system total) >M7164, Q-bus SDI disk adaptor, Q-22 (1 of 2)(what does that mean? Guess I >need another board) This is half an interface for DEC "SDI" drives, the most familiar is the RA81 and RA82 type. (Very heavy drives) If you need the "other half" I can help (I've got three extra sets I believe) :-) >M7516 YM, Ethernet interface (replaces DEQNA) - what do I need to hook it up? This then is your ethernet, it happens to be a "DELQA-T" or affectionately known as the "Turbo" DELQA. Pretty much the nicest ethernet you can put in a Q-bus VAX machine until you get to the DESQA series for the MV III. >M3106, 4-line double-buffered async EIA MUX, with modem control; replaces >M7957 - What do I do with this? It has a cable attachaed, p/n BC05L-03 Again, I (and probably others) can send you the "cab kit" for this board which takes that cable and turns it into four DB-25 connectors. Generally this mounts in one of the option holes in the back panel of the VAX. >3x M3104 DHV11, 8-line async DMA MUX This is the 8 line version of the above and a "quad wide" as opposed to the dual wide 3106. If you're lucky you can find M3107's which are the line line dual-wide versions. Again, if you need cab kits I tried to give them away earlier and no takers. >M7551 CA, 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM (what will this work with?) This is for a PDP-11/23 or ll/73. Basically you can "fill" the memory space for one of these processors with this board. >M8053 MA, M8053 with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) - huh? This is a synchronous serial port that knows how to do DDCMP (the DECnet serial protocol) You will find this comes in handy if you want to create a DECnet link from a VAX to a PDP-11 (it can be easier than creating an ethernet link sometimes) >Non-DEC DEC stuff: >Sigma Info Systems DZV11, some WDC chips on it and two 40-pin connectors This is an async mux as well, the DEC cab kits work with it I believe. >Emulex TU0210401 Don't know. >National Semiconductor NS638 - tons of chips, looks like memory According to my notes this is an 8MB RAM card for the MicroVAX II. (could give you a total of 16MB when combined with the other two cards) Check to see if it has the 50 pin connector on the right side (when viewed from the front) >Now, what do I do with all this stuff? Well, several choices, one you could combine the M3106 + M7516 + M7606 + 2x M7608 in a BA23 cabinet and create a diskless MicroVAX II. Bootable via MOP into either VMS or NetBSD. >What will work with my 11/84 and how do I set it up? My 11/84 is bare >right now - just CPU and some memory. I don't even remember what exactly >is in there right now, I'll have to go check later. If the 11/84 is Unibus then I don't think you can do much with it, but if you get a BA23 or BA123 you can have yourself a MicroVAX II in short order. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 3 01:44:34 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: <20001231160602.XSVU21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <002c01c072be$457ac3c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >I just bought two printerport Xircom ethernet adapters for 9bucks apiece >on Ebay. Only three of the 25 available sold so there are still units >available. Sounds like a coax, not a 10bt price. Are you sure about which it is? From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 3 02:50:33 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010103090132.USGU17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In , on 01/03/01 at 03:50 AM, Iggy Drougge said: >Do you have a HD? I'd like to run MiNT, but I'm uncertain about its >usefulness without a hard drive. >The other problem is that the two parport ethernet drivers for the Atari >require either a D-Link DE600 or an RTL8012 based adaptor, and AFAIK, >Xircom ones are compatible with neither. Yup, its running on a 600mb scsi with a Link II interface. Gotta have a hard disk. You might be able to string enough floppy drives together to run it, but it would be a custom setup. MiNT docs say it'll run on any ST. I think you might get a single user session and PPP going but that would be the limit. X barely runs on my 4mb ram and I can't actually run any X programs without running out of memory at that. No virtual memory really hurts. Later Ataris like the Falcon and the TT don't suffer from this so killer MiNT setups are possible. In the last couple of years, I've had by far the best luck with KEMD, the English translation of Knarf's German MiNT Distribution (KGMD). It is easy to install and comes with most of what you need such as a TCP/IP stack and PPPD. The first install screens are in German. Basically I made educated guesses as to what was being asked..... If you have questions, please feel free to e-mail me. >> It is networked but via a PPP serial link at 19200bps.... The ppp server >> is Tserve for OS/2. >An OS/2 junkie? That was a while ago (not counting the state railways and >the local supermarket). I've been intending to install Warp on one of my >new Pentiums (I've already got 2.1 on a 486). It doesn't seem to like >ATAPI drives, though. Cor, I feel so modern, having got my first 100 MHz >computer. Yea, I've been an OS/2phile for going on ten years. 2.1 is not happy with most Atapi cdrom drives without adding a driver to your install disks. Warp Connect and Warp 4 are very happy with almost any drive. Thise year's release of OS/2 is EcomStation and installs like a dream on almost any pc hardware. I owe a lot to OS/2. Finally a new version! Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 3 03:07:00 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010103091259.UWTJ17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Looks like a winner then. The model is: PE10BT-32K which makes me think RJ not RG. I have not heard back from the seller yet so it might still bust. Oh God. I just had a sick thought of trying to run one under NetBSD on my Sun Sparcstation which is already networked via it's own, more than adequate lance ethernet adapter. I bet I can find a driver. Anyone know how complete the printer port on this Sun is? As for the ST, I think as long as the chipset is the same as the Dlink models (RTL8012???) then it is likely to work from what I've read on the net'. In , on 01/03/01 at 04:07 AM, Mike Ford said: >>I just bought two printerport Xircom ethernet adapters for 9bucks apiece >>on Ebay. Only three of the 25 available sold so there are still units >>available. >Sounds like a coax, not a 10bt price. Are you sure about which it is? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 3 03:49:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: <20010103091259.UWTJ17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Oh God. I just had a sick thought of trying to run one under NetBSD on my > Sun Sparcstation which is already networked via it's own, more than > adequate lance ethernet adapter. I bet I can find a driver. Anyone know > how complete the printer port on this Sun is? > > As for the ST, I think as long as the chipset is the same as the Dlink > models (RTL8012???) then it is likely to work from what I've read on the > net'. AFAIK Xircom have their own constructions and are very secretive about them. No NetBSD drivers exist AFAIK (To the best of my knowledge, there are no parport ethernet drivers for NetBSD whatsoever), though I seem to recall having seen either Solaris or BSD/OS drivers. From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 3 04:06:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: <20010103090132.USGU17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > In , on 01/03/01 > at 03:50 AM, Iggy Drougge said: > > >Do you have a HD? I'd like to run MiNT, but I'm uncertain about its > >usefulness without a hard drive. > >The other problem is that the two parport ethernet drivers for the Atari > >require either a D-Link DE600 or an RTL8012 based adaptor, and AFAIK, > >Xircom ones are compatible with neither. > > Yup, its running on a 600mb scsi with a Link II interface. Gotta have a > hard disk. You might be able to string enough floppy drives together to > run it, but it would be a custom setup. MiNT docs say it'll run on any > ST. I think you might get a single user session and PPP going but that > would be the limit. X barely runs on my 4mb ram and I can't actually run > any X programs without running out of memory at that. No virtual memory > really hurts. Later Ataris like the Falcon and the TT don't suffer from > this so killer MiNT setups are possible. Why would one want to run X when one has MiNT? I don't see why one would like to run X on any kind of system, in fact. I suppose I'll have to stick with TOS until I find one of the half-dozen or so ST HD interfaces which seem to have found their way to Sweden. ST users seem to have been allergic to upgrades. > In the last couple of years, I've had by far the best luck with KEMD, the > English translation of Knarf's German MiNT Distribution (KGMD). It is > easy to install and comes with most of what you need such as a TCP/IP > stack and PPPD. The first install screens are in German. Basically I > made educated guesses as to what was being asked..... If you have > questions, please feel free to e-mail me. I'm quite adept at German, so that shouldn't be any problem. One almost has to be in the ST world. > >> It is networked but via a PPP serial link at 19200bps.... The ppp server > >> is Tserve for OS/2. > > >An OS/2 junkie? That was a while ago (not counting the state railways and > >the local supermarket). I've been intending to install Warp on one of my > >new Pentiums (I've already got 2.1 on a 486). It doesn't seem to like > >ATAPI drives, though. Cor, I feel so modern, having got my first 100 MHz > >computer. > > Yea, I've been an OS/2phile for going on ten years. 2.1 is not happy with > most Atapi cdrom drives without adding a driver to your install disks. Moreover, 2.1 required a second IDE interface in order to utilise the ATAPI drive. > Warp Connect and Warp 4 are very happy with almost any drive. Thise > year's release of OS/2 is EcomStation and installs like a dream on almost > any pc hardware. I owe a lot to OS/2. Finally a new version! At the usual IBM prices? From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 3 05:08:52 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010103111026.WRIB17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Yes and no. If you allready have warp4, you can 'upgrade' for $135.00. If not, it is more than $200.00. If you want SMP, it is $100.00 more still. I'd look for a copy of Warp4 and buy the upgrade license. The product is the same regardless. Regards, Jeff In , on 01/03/01 at 06:08 AM, Iggy Drougge said: >At the usual IBM prices? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 3 05:11:48 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010103111309.WSDR17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I can run an AES window manager and do run AES4.1 under MiNT, but X would be useful. Regards, Jeff In , on 01/03/01 at 06:11 AM, Iggy Drougge said: >Why would one want to run X when one has MiNT? I don't see why one would >like to run X on any kind of system, in fact. >I suppose I'll have to stick with TOS until I find one of the half-dozen >or so ST HD interfaces which seem to have found their way to Sweden. ST >users seem to have been allergic to upgrades. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 3 05:14:26 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: cleaning QIC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010103111722.WTMN17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I manually cleaned a 9track tape with paper towels and rubbing alcohol last winter. It took forever spooling the tape back and forth, but I did get the data. I spent an entire day doing it. Someone mentioned in an earlier floppy-recovery message alcohol as a lubricant. I can attest this works with my 9track. It will read 'wet' tape better than sticky tape... regards, jeff In , on 01/03/01 at 06:14 AM, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: >I've had success using propan-2-ol to clean magnetic tape. What I >normally do is support the tape on a wooden stick (the 'handle' of a >cotton bud), use another cotton bud soaked in propan-2-ol held against >the tape and then 'rock' the tape backwards and forwards by turning the >spools (if a normal cassette-type thing) or the drive puck (for a QIC >tape). I've not wiped the oxide off the tape by doing this. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 3 05:37:56 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: cleaning QIC? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010103114019.XDMD17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> You may need to disassemble the tape cart to clean it properly. The goo on the read surface of the tape gets stuck to the back of the tape after spooling. You can clean a spot, spool the tape, and that spot will be gooey again. If you disassemble and then clean BOTH sides of the tape thoroughly, you might have better luck. BTW, if you need help repairing the drive that trashed the tape, I've got a Jim Dandy method of replacing the drive roller. Regards, Jeff In , on 01/03/01 at 06:37 AM, "r. 'bear' stricklin" said: >I need to repair a partially torn tape, and remove some sticky gunk from >the media itself. Hopefully I'll be able to do this in a way that will >allow me to read the tape one last time to get an image of the data. >This particular tape got gooed up in a tape drive which had a decayed >capstan. It didn't get gooed up too badly, but it looks like it was >enough to cause a headache. >I was able to clean the goo off the cassette mechanics by using a nr. 7 >X-Acto blade dipped in alcohol. All went well with that. >When I tried to read the tape to make an image, it progressed to a >certain point on the tape and gave up. Examining the tape revealed the >following defects: > * traces of capstan goo > * a small, ca. 1/16" tear in the tape >I'm assuming I can use some splicing tape on the tear, but what can I use >to clean the goo off the tape? Alcohol worked well on the cassette, but >I've heard that it can cause the oxide to separate from the substrate if >used on the tape itself. >Any suggestions or speculations on my chances of succeeding would be >appreciated. I'm in a bit of a bind. >ok >r. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 3 05:43:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: scart cable in US? In-Reply-To: References: from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 31, 0 05:28:04 am Message-ID: >One thing I built years ago was a cable with a SCART plug on one end and >a box on the other with 6 BNC sockets (composite in, composite out, R, G, I wonder where I could find a SCART connector in the US? It sounds like the connection I have on a Sony monitor, 130x (x is 4 or 6 or something), that I have never been able to test. BTW I have found a couple sources for cables at $25, but I need the much cheaper kind. ;) From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Jan 3 08:20:19 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DEC find References: <200101030203.SAA07312@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A533523.5168EE81@idirect.com> >healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Now, what do I do with all this stuff? What will work with my 11/84 > > and how do I set it up? My 11/84 is bare right now - just CPU and > > some memory. I don't even remember what exactly is in there right > > now, I'll have to go check later. The MicroVAX II CPU was a surprise. > > Is there anything I can do with that? Anyone in the Portland, OR area > > (or other areas of OR/WA with a bit of planning) need any of this > > stuff or have something that I could use with it? > I'm guessing all the boards you just got are Q-Bus, the 11/84 is Unibus. > However, I think you can pull the CPU and RAM out of the 11/84, and put them > in the Q-Bus chassis and have a Q-Bus 11/83. Wait a MINUTE! Did you get a > chassis with all these boards, or just the boards?!?! Jerome Fine replies: STOP!! STOP!! WARNING!! WARNING!! 11/84 PMI memory MSV11-JB,C is NOT the same as 11/83 PMI memory which is MSV11-JD,E. For reasons which I do not understand, DEC used the former in the 11/84 even though I understand that the CPU that is used in the 11/84 is the identical board to the 11/83 (KDJ11-BF). Since the 11/83 CPU obviously MUST be Qbus and is designed to be used in the BA23/BA123 with MSV11-JD,E memory, the portion of the 11/84 which has the CPU and memory MUST be Qbus as well, but obviously is not quite Qbus since DEC used those DIFFERENT PMI memory boards. The question is exactly what is the difference between the MSV11-JB,C and the MSV11-JD,E - if you don't know, I would advise that you do not use the 11/84 MSV11-JB,C in the Qbus chassis in a BA23/BA123. Megan Gentry often sees these posts - do you know what electronic differences exist between the MSV11-JB,C and the MSV11-JD,E? And would there be any damage if the MSV11-JB,C boards were used in the BA23/BA123 chassis? > I'm in the area and think I've got some spare RQDX2 disk controllers (trust > me you don't want them). Not sure if I've got any spare RQDX3's, but > probably do. Of course if you didn't get a chassis, these won't do you any > good as they're Q-Bus. I may also have a few spare RQDX3 controllers. But, they use only the RD51,2,3,4 hard drives and RX50/RX33 floppy drives. And to format the hard drives, you really need XXDP. I suppose that an RD54 at about 159 MBytes is not terrible, especially for RT-11 and the hobby V5.03 of RT-11 (oops - you can only legally run V5.03 of RT-11 as a hobby user with the Supnik emulator), since V5.03 was the first version to support eight 32 MByte RT-11 partitions and will soon support dates after 1999 as well as other great options (if I ever get around to it - still not very much interest, but I am working on it very slowly). If you need an RX50 floppy to use with XXDP, I can probably find one of those as well. Lots of fun with the 11/83. What operating system do you intend to run? If you don't intend to use some of the boards, please let me know - I can always use a few spares. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 3 12:31:04 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Pacific Data Systems References: <200101030203.SAA07312@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A533523.5168EE81@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3A536FE8.1E3@xs4all.nl> Hello All, Does anybody know what happened with Pacific Data Systems? I tried to call them on 530 893 2394 but that number seems to be disconnected. Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Jan 3 10:37:04 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DecStations Message-ID: <34.f02604a.2784af30@aol.com> Does anyone on the list know what year the Personal DECstation 5000/33 (Maxine) was released? How many MIPS it runs at? And how much it originally costed? Thanks, -Linc. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 3 10:38:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <200101030203.SAA07312@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A533523.5168EE81@idirect.com> Message-ID: <001f01c075a3$a82219a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Has anybody got an ALTAIR that actually runs CP/M? I have one OS for an Altair, namely a system with the MITS serial board an a Morrow DJ2. Not being an Altair-owner myself, I don't know how, exactly to prepare a BIOS for the two Altair add-ons I'm building up for eventual liquidation on eBay. I've got two genuine MITS boxes, one intended (but never used as such) FDD box, with a front face plate I made in the shop, which houses a PSU, and offers four HH 5-1/4" drive bays, with a dual 50-conductor cable hookup in the back, the latter hookup being of my own design an the opening for it having been milled by me. The box is original, but there's no identification of any sort, since this was from a batch of raw boxes I bought when MITS went tits-up. The other, essentially identical box is a MITS HDC box, with the original cardcage and PSU (repaired) but no back cover, which once covered the card cage opening from the rear, and, consistent with the original MITS accommodated a parallel interface to the Altair computer. It is completely original and has no modifications to the box, which still bears the original dress panel and key-switch, but the box houses a WD-1002-05 bridge controller, capable of handling 4 floppies (albeit 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" only, due to the supported clock rate). This box is intended to be used in tandem with the COMPLETELY COUNTERFEIT drive enclosure mentioned above, though it's being done in a period-authentic way. What I want to know is what sort of support for floppy diskettes will be require, if any, based on the fact there will only be 5-1/4" drives accomodated in the system. Has anybody got a "better" sort of BIOS setup for booting from the WDFDC? I'm looking to clone something, so the eventual owner will be able to build and use a boot diskette from something else, prefereably something that already exists, yet the only running Altair boxes I've seen/heard-of myself use the hard-sectored mini-floppies of the Northstar, and that's not an option. Any suggestions? Dick From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 3 10:51:25 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: DecStations In-Reply-To: <34.f02604a.2784af30@aol.com> from "LFessen106@aol.com" at Jan 03, 2001 11:37:04 AM Message-ID: <200101031651.IAA17416@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Does anyone on the list know what year the Personal DECstation 5000/33 > (Maxine) was released? How many MIPS it runs at? And how much it originally > costed? > > Thanks, > -Linc. > Check http://www.netbsd.org under the PMAX port. It's the best source of DECstation info that I know of. Zane From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Jan 3 12:01:10 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: decus lives! Message-ID: <01Jan3.180113gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> At least in the UK anyway. The recent flurry of DECUS complaints on here made me wonder what had happened to my own membership - sure enough it expired last month so they're wanting another 25 english pounds off me. Thing is, is it still worth it to be a member? I haven't been to the seminars etc for *years* and don't have a requirement for hobbyist kits or anything like that...... thoughts? -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Jan 3 12:49:11 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148E7@msx1.cboe.com> Hey wait a minute ... A BIOS on an Altair ? Sure there were add-ons (years later) that did this, but if you really want authenticity this is what we did -- I always had to "boot" my Altair with a simple paper tape loader program entered from the switches on front panel. I did this so many times, I had the 30 octal codes memorized. Once I had Altair BASIC loaded, I generally kept the machine powered up as long as possible. I could write BASIC programs and "save" them in one of two ways -- (1) by punching a paper tape on a Teletype machine, or (2) a notoriously unreliable cassette tape interface. Later we got a surplus 9-track magnetic tape drive, but that was also a big pain. I never knew anyone who actually had a actual floppy for their Altair. I seem to remember that they cost more than the computer itself, and the computer was quite expensive -- ($2,000 1974 dollars). But then, my brother and I were 12 and 13 years old and we only new a couple of other Altair owners. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher [SMTP:edick@idcomm.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 10:39 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Altair Owners ... Has anybody got an ALTAIR that actually runs CP/M? I have one OS for an Altair, namely a system with the MITS serial board an a Morrow DJ2. Not being an Altair-owner myself, I don't know how, exactly to prepare a BIOS for the two Altair add-ons I'm building up for eventual liquidation on eBay. I've got two genuine MITS boxes, one intended (but never used as such) FDD box, with a front face plate I made in the shop, which houses a PSU, and offers four HH 5-1/4" drive bays, with a dual 50-conductor cable hookup in the back, the latter hookup being of my own design an the opening for it having been milled by me. The box is original, but there's no identification of any sort, since this was from a batch of raw boxes I bought when MITS went tits-up. The other, essentially identical box is a MITS HDC box, with the original cardcage and PSU (repaired) but no back cover, which once covered the card cage opening from the rear, and, consistent with the original MITS accommodated a parallel interface to the Altair computer. It is completely original and has no modifications to the box, which still bears the original dress panel and key-switch, but the box houses a WD-1002-05 bridge controller, capable of handling 4 floppies (albeit 5-1/4" and 3-1/2" only, due to the supported clock rate). This box is intended to be used in tandem with the COMPLETELY COUNTERFEIT drive enclosure mentioned above, though it's being done in a period-authentic way. What I want to know is what sort of support for floppy diskettes will be require, if any, based on the fact there will only be 5-1/4" drives accomodated in the system. Has anybody got a "better" sort of BIOS setup for booting from the WDFDC? I'm looking to clone something, so the eventual owner will be able to build and use a boot diskette from something else, prefereably something that already exists, yet the only running Altair boxes I've seen/heard-of myself use the hard-sectored mini-floppies of the Northstar, and that's not an option. Any suggestions? Dick From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 13:13:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: scart cable in US? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 3, 1 03:43:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1521 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010103/17ccebe0/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 3 13:04:42 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: decus lives! In-Reply-To: Adrian Graham "decus lives!" (Jan 3, 18:01) References: <01Jan3.180113gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <10101031904.ZM26080@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 3, 18:01, Adrian Graham wrote: > At least in the UK anyway. The recent flurry of DECUS complaints on here > made me wonder what had happened to my own membership - sure enough it > expired last month so they're wanting another 25 english pounds off me. > Thing is, is it still worth it to be a member? I haven't been to the > seminars etc for *years* and don't have a requirement for hobbyist kits or > anything like that...... I'm not sure a UK membership entitles you to very much in the way of hobbyist kits -- our UK branch seems very backward in all respects except collecting money. My membership expired years ago and when I was invited to pay not only the ?25 membership but a similar "joining fee" to rejoin, I declined -- I was a student at the time and it wasn't affordable. Especially since they wanted such high prices for anything from the software library. Anyone know just what hobbyist licences/kits are available to UK members? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 3 13:16:55 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: scart cable in US? In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "scart cable in US?" (Jan 3, 3:43) References: from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 31 0 05:28:04 am Message-ID: <10101031916.ZM26094@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 3, 3:43, Mike Ford wrote: > >One thing I built years ago was a cable with a SCART plug on one end and > >a box on the other with 6 BNC sockets (composite in, composite out, R, G, > > I wonder where I could find a SCART connector in the US? It sounds like the > connection I have on a Sony monitor, 130x (x is 4 or 6 or something), that > I have never been able to test. > > BTW I have found a couple sources for cables at $25, but I need the much > cheaper kind. ;) Ouch! Over here, cheap SCART leads cost as little as a couple of pounds! If you want connection tables and pictures, try some of these: http://www.kevlar.karoo.net/scart.html http://www.drdish.com/knowledge/0005/eng/000504.shtml http://www.netcentral.co.uk/satcure/scarts.htm and probably hundreds of others that Google could find for you :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From vcf at siconic.com Wed Jan 3 12:33:23 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Need assistance with project ($$) Message-ID: This is directed to any TRS-80 experts: I need help with a consulting project I'm working on. I need to get a copy of the TRS-80 game Combat from a PC emulator file onto either cassette or diskette (better yet, I need to get an original copy of this game). Additionally, I need assistance in figuring out how to configure the hardware for this game. Combat is a multi-computer, multi-player game. It requires some sort of physical serial connection (either via modem or serial cable) between two TRS-80 computers. It allows two people to play against each other in realtime. If you think you can help me with this, or preferably, if you have experience with this game, please do contact me ASAP. Your assistance will be monetarily compensated (this is your chance to make some money with this hobby other than selling stuff on eBay! :) Please contact me at . If you know anyone who might be able to assist, please forward this message to them. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From nemo at nethouse.goldweb.com.au Wed Jan 3 15:51:16 2001 From: nemo at nethouse.goldweb.com.au (Owen Cameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 Message-ID: <20010104085116.B9743@nethouse.goldweb.com.au> G'day, I have one of these beasties sitting around - they're a mid-late 1970's design I believe (the only date I can find on it however is the copyright on the PCB for the powersupply - 1971). At first glance, it does appear to work - powers up and screen glows a wonderfull cliche green. Serial cord connected and send data to it... no effect. :( So, has anyone ever setup one of these things to work as a terminal to a common garden PC (linux user I am)? Might the screen have burnt out and it simply is unable to display anything I send to it anyways? Does it need a straight-through or null-modem serial connection? Do I need to send an initialisation string to it before it'll accept and display any data? None of these things I know, and trial and error problem solving can be frustrating, especially if other problems prevent them from being solved that way! ;) btw, I have a few cheap webcam shots of the thing, and can get them on a webpage, if anyone is interested in seeing the thing. .../Nemo -- -=- -=- http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/ -=- -=- -=- -=- The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music! -=- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jan 3 17:57:55 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <005b01c075e1$a145a000$2b779a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >Has anybody got an ALTAIR that actually runs CP/M? I rans MITS DISK BASIC back when. Also using NS* MDS-A both NSdos and CP/M-1.4. >I have one OS for an Altair, namely a system with the MITS serial board an a >Morrow DJ2. Not being an Altair-owner myself, I don't know how, exactly to >prepare a BIOS for the two Altair add-ons I'm building up for eventual >liquidation on eBay. The altair was a regular conflagureation of hardware often a MITS 8080, one of the SIOs or 2SIOs and mostly everyone elses disk controller. the most common at the time was the NS* MDS-A, ICOM FDOS and some of the various 1771 based boards. Most people replaced the backplane at that point as the MITs bus assembly (save for the later -B version) wer really bad for noise. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jan 3 17:52:22 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:00 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <005a01c075e1$96cbe490$2b779a8d@ajp166> From: Rob Kapteyn >Hey wait a minute ... >A BIOS on an Altair ? > >Sure there were add-ons (years later) that did this, but if you really want authenticity this is what we did -- > >I always had to "boot" my Altair with a simple paper tape loader program entered from the switches on >front panel. I did this so many times, I had the 30 octal codes memorized. Often several times until it read the cassette correctly! Saving stuff was easy though bets were off if you could read it later. First homebrew board 8223 (x2 for 64 bytes plus 2 7489s for 16bytes of scratch ram) prom boot! >Once I had Altair BASIC loaded, I generally kept the machine powered up as long as possible. Or until it crashed! >I never knew anyone who actually had a actual floppy for their Altair. >I seem to remember that they cost more than the computer itself, and the computer was quite >expensive --($2,000 1974 dollars). I built and debugged two of them for others. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 3 18:05:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Needed: Tandy PDD or PDD2 In-Reply-To: <005b01c075e1$a145a000$2b779a8d@ajp166> References: <005b01c075e1$a145a000$2b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: I've decided that if I'm going to go back to using this Tandy 102 as a 'notebook' that I'd like to get one of the portable disk drives for it. Anyone have one they'd be willing to part with? I'd really like to get the 3-1/2" PDD2, but the original PDD would work nicely. Sure beats saving to tape! Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Jan 3 18:12:59 2001 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 References: <20010104085116.B9743@nethouse.goldweb.com.au> Message-ID: <3A53C00B.8C559839@halcyon.com> There should be an erase button; press it to see if the screen flashes and clears. There should be a local/remote button; put it in local and try typing. Dave Owen Cameron wrote: > > G'day, > > I have one of these beasties sitting around - they're a mid-late 1970's > design I believe (the only date I can find on it however is the copyright on > the PCB for the powersupply - 1971). > > At first glance, it does appear to work - powers up and screen glows a > wonderfull cliche green. Serial cord connected and send data to it... no > effect. :( > > So, has anyone ever setup one of these things to work as a terminal to a > common garden PC (linux user I am)? Might the screen have burnt out and it > simply is unable to display anything I send to it anyways? Does it need a > straight-through or null-modem serial connection? Do I need to send an > initialisation string to it before it'll accept and display any data? > None of these things I know, and trial and error problem solving can be > frustrating, especially if other problems prevent them from being solved > that way! ;) > > btw, I have a few cheap webcam shots of the thing, and can get them on a > webpage, if anyone is interested in seeing the thing. > > .../Nemo > -- > -=- -=- http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/ -=- > -=- -=- > -=- The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music! -=- From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 3 18:16:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <005a01c075e1$96cbe490$2b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <004801c075e3$8c3e6820$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yeah ... I've got a copy of that MITS DISK BASIC lying about somewhere, though there's no documentation on hand. The deal is that (1) with one of my scrap S-100 PCB's hacked into a WD1K channel, the Altair can then talk to a WD1002-05 HD/FD Controller, as I'm putting in the MITS HDC box, and use that to operate the mix of 5-1/4" hard and floppy disks in the second box. It requires no S-100 FDC of any sort. Since BIOS code abounds for the WD controllers, I'd say it's not only a cool set of hardware, but a slick way to get the OS running if it's not already, and I do have HD drives in the form of a "back-end" driver, for the WD1K series, that can be autoloaded on boot if CP/M is already running. However, using a parallel port board would be more consisitent with what was done with the original Altair system: the one with the small desk built on the table-high rack with a desk extending to one side. It used a parallel port sort of thingie to talk to the SMD interface in the HDC box, and that, in turn, talked to the CDC HAWK drive in the top portion of the rack pedestal onto which the desktop was fitted. I could put in some sort of parallel port thingie, and 8255, or perhaps a pair of input ports and a pair of output ports, to provide the bits necessary to do the job. The channel interface is a lot slicker and faster, though, and TTL will drive the cable a lot better than an 8255. Either one will work, but I've no "feel" for what would be preferred by the typical Altair owner. Of course I'm particularly interested in placing this stuff with someone to whom an Altair isn't an Altair if any of the hardware doesn't say MITS on it, though only the boxes in this set are original MITS. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > From: Rob Kapteyn > > > >Hey wait a minute ... > >A BIOS on an Altair ? > > > >Sure there were add-ons (years later) that did this, but if you really > want authenticity this is what we did -- > > > >I always had to "boot" my Altair with a simple paper tape loader program > entered from the switches on > >front panel. I did this so many times, I had the 30 octal codes > memorized. > > > Often several times until it read the cassette correctly! Saving stuff > was easy though bets were > off if you could read it later. > > First homebrew board 8223 (x2 for 64 bytes plus 2 7489s for 16bytes of > scratch ram) prom boot! > > >Once I had Altair BASIC loaded, I generally kept the machine powered up > as long as possible. > > > Or until it crashed! > > >I never knew anyone who actually had a actual floppy for their Altair. > >I seem to remember that they cost more than the computer itself, and the > computer was quite >expensive --($2,000 1974 dollars). > > > I built and debugged two of them for others. > > Allison > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Jan 3 18:26:34 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: <3A53C00B.8C559839@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Jan 03, 2001 04:12:59 PM Message-ID: <200101040026.RAA27205@calico.litterbox.com> Also terminals generally need a null modem to talk to a garden variety PC RS232. > > So, has anyone ever setup one of these things to work as a terminal to a > > common garden PC (linux user I am)? Might the screen have burnt out and it > > simply is unable to display anything I send to it anyways? Does it need a > > straight-through or null-modem serial connection? Do I need to send an > > initialisation string to it before it'll accept and display any data? > > None of these things I know, and trial and error problem solving can be > > frustrating, especially if other problems prevent them from being solved > > that way! ;) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 3 18:29:24 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: <3A53C00B.8C559839@halcyon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, David C. Jenner wrote: > There should be an erase button; press it to see > if the screen flashes and clears. | RESET | It is identified as: ---> | | | PAGE | - don > There should be a local/remote button; put it in > local and try typing. > > Dave > > Owen Cameron wrote: > > > > G'day, > > > > I have one of these beasties sitting around - they're a mid-late 1970's > > design I believe (the only date I can find on it however is the copyright on > > the PCB for the powersupply - 1971). > > > > At first glance, it does appear to work - powers up and screen glows a > > wonderfull cliche green. Serial cord connected and send data to it... no > > effect. :( > > > > So, has anyone ever setup one of these things to work as a terminal to a > > common garden PC (linux user I am)? Might the screen have burnt out and it > > simply is unable to display anything I send to it anyways? Does it need a > > straight-through or null-modem serial connection? Do I need to send an > > initialisation string to it before it'll accept and display any data? > > None of these things I know, and trial and error problem solving can be > > frustrating, especially if other problems prevent them from being solved > > that way! ;) > > > > btw, I have a few cheap webcam shots of the thing, and can get them on a > > webpage, if anyone is interested in seeing the thing. > > > > .../Nemo > > -- > > -=- -=- http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/ -=- > > -=- -=- > > -=- The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music! -=- > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 17:44:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: <20010104085116.B9743@nethouse.goldweb.com.au> from "Owen Cameron" at Jan 4, 1 08:51:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1919 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010103/d7c5beba/attachment.ksh From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Wed Jan 3 18:35:56 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: need help identifying DEC card Message-ID: <016901c075e6$4e274c20$67cdd63f@headleys> I just bought an item among a batch of other things. This particular item I have no clue what it is, and it seems it may be a secret or something...because there is no name. It is just a series of numbers. The card measures around 10.5" x 9". Some of the numbers that may aid in identifying it are: M7751, 5017547-01-D1-P2 and it was made in Singapore. I am not sure I can send pictures on this list, but if someone wants to help, I could send them a picture. What is it and what is it used for. Headley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010103/0c80875b/attachment.html From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Jan 3 18:59:53 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: need help identifying DEC card Message-ID: <20010103.185954.-216989.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> If it's a q-bus board (four sets of fingers with a *metal* 'rail' running along the front) could be a 4MB 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM board for the 11/73 or 11/83 (if my source is correct). On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 19:35:56 -0500 "Compusync" writes: > I just bought an item among a batch of other things. This particular > item I have no clue what it is, and it seems it may be a secret or > something...because there is no name. It is just a series of > numbers. The card measures around 10.5" x 9". Some of the numbers > that may aid in identifying it are: M7751, 5017547-01-D1-P2 and it > was made in Singapore. I am not sure I can send pictures on this > list, but if someone wants to help, I could send them a picture. > What is it and what is it used for. > > Headley ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Jan 3 20:13:03 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: <001f01c075a3$a82219a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <200101030203.SAA07312@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A533523.5168EE81@idirect.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010103181201.02ec7730@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:38 AM 1/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >Has anybody got an ALTAIR that actually runs CP/M? Yep... Versions running on Tarbell single and double density controllers, and a version that runs on the native MITS 8 inch disk subsystem. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Wed Jan 3 21:55:37 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: need help identifying DEC card References: <20010103.185954.-216989.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <01f501c07602$337e47e0$67cdd63f@headleys> Hi thanks for the info > If it's a q-bus board (four sets of fingers with a *metal* 'rail' > running along the front) could be a 4MB 22-bit parity/CSR MOS > RAM board for the 11/73 or 11/83 (if my source is correct). What is a 11/73 or 11/83 ? can you elaborate a little more for me. Kind of a newbie here with fancy towards DEC stuff Headley From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 4 01:44:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <200101030203.SAA07312@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A533523.5168EE81@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010103181201.02ec7730@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <001301c07622$6a846100$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Really! I sold off a MITS FDD that I'd had lying about for some 20+ years over the last year or two. My concern over the eventual dispositon of the artifacts I mentioned is probably unwarranted by the general lack of concern about much other than appearance. I have endeavored not to modify the orignal hardware beyond repairing broken electronic components, etc. The stuff I've added is added without physically modifying the orignal boxes, though that's not always easy. I'm curious about whether a "real" Altair user has preference for one or the other of the two modes of interfacing the clearly not original MITS electronics in the HDC box. My understanding is that the orignial interface to the HDC card set, missing from my HDC box, was a parallel port set. I could easily provide that, but am troubled by the fact it would be so much (probably 8-10x) slower than using the channel interface that works so well with the WD 100x controllers. Since the hardware I'd provide is not authentic in either case, it really doesn't matter, but it's a fine point I'd be concerned with if I were a collector. I have these old blank S-100 parallel port boards that were used for testing HDA's at Miniscribe in the '80's, and they're pretty easy to modify into either form of interface. The hardware I'm providing makes no attempt to do anything beyond filling the purpose and filling the open holes in the boxes. I do see this as an easy way for an Altair with no FDC or HDC to become a working computer, perhaps superior in performance and functionality to anything originally availble for the Altair. My quandary is that getting it working is a lot of work probably of little or no interest to a "collector" who just wants matching boxes stacked on the shelf. How do you see this? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > At 09:38 AM 1/3/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Has anybody got an ALTAIR that actually runs CP/M? > > Yep... Versions running on Tarbell single and double density controllers, > and a version that runs on the native MITS 8 inch disk subsystem. > > -jim > > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. > Current web site and email shown above > > From roart at nvg.ntnu.no Thu Jan 4 04:59:09 2001 From: roart at nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Roar_Thron=E6s?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: univac tape format Message-ID: Hi We have got some UNIVAC 9-tracks tapes we are trying to read. (The tapes were written in 1982, so it is a possibility the data is lost. Our UNIVAC 110xs are long gone.) What is the UNIVAC tape format? (I have not found any info on the net yet) We are trying to read it on a VMS system with 9-track TSZ07 streamer. (TSZ07 is SCSI, 1600/6250 bpi. Suppose it is ANSI too) Is the hardware compatible enough? If it is, how do I read it? (Got a Unix utility called copytape, so the streamer may eventually be moved) (Another possibility is using a TU81+ streamer, ANSI, 1600/6500 bpi) Regards, Roar Thron?s From gsc at zip.com.au Thu Jan 4 06:04:21 2001 From: gsc at zip.com.au (Sean Case) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: univac tape format In-Reply-To: <200101041104.FAA92013@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200101041104.FAA92013@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >We have got some UNIVAC 9-tracks tapes we are trying to read. >(The tapes were written in 1982, so it is a possibility the data is lost. >Our UNIVAC 110xs are long gone.) First of all, you might want to try asking this question on the comp.sys.unisys newsgroup. If nothing else, you may find someone with the current version of these machines (Unisys 2200 or Unisys ClearPath IX) who can do the conversion for you. >What is the UNIVAC tape format? >(I have not found any info on the net yet) It depends on what's on the tape. The 1100 series are 36 bit machines. The usual tape format has two words packed into nine tape frames. MSB of the first frame would be the MSB of the first word, and LSB of the last frame would be the LSB of the second. (I think.) Text is usually encoded in ASCII, using nine bits per character. Text files are in a variable length record format, with a file header that starts with octal 50 in the high order six bits of the first word, and a record header word on each record. The actual text may be wrapped inside various levels of archive, but if you see long stretches of readable ASCII, you've found the actual meat. (There may also be some text encoded in an older six-bit character set. That seems a bit old-fashioned for 1982, but you never know.) Now for the good news. If the tape was _intended_ to be read by a non- Univac machine, then it may well have straight ASCII (or even EBCDIC) text recorded one character per frame with fixed length records. A dump of the first few blocks on the tape, as well as an idea of what sorts of block lengths there are on the rest of it, would be a great help in trying to guess the format. >We are trying to read it on a VMS system with 9-track TSZ07 streamer. >(TSZ07 is SCSI, 1600/6250 bpi. Suppose it is ANSI too) >Is the hardware compatible enough? Should be, assuming the tape is actually in one of those densities. Making sense of the contents may be harder. >If it is, how do I read it? (Got a Unix utility called copytape, so the >streamer may eventually be moved) I don't know of a Unix utility that can cope with all the variations of 1100 series tapes. The easy way is definitely to get someone with a compatible machine to read it. (Is your site still on speaking terms with Unisys?) The other option is to find out exactly what format your tape is in, and knock something together to read it. Sean Case From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 4 09:00:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: VAX-11/750 Rescue in Portland, Oregon Message-ID: I just found out about a VAX-11/750 that is apparently in the Portland area that is in desparate need of Rescue. From talking to the woman that's trying to take care of this for her parents, it sounds like they'd like to get money or at least a tax credit for this. It apparently includes software and documentation, and it is supposed to be fully working. Now for the bad side, it's in a garage that has to be cleared out in a week because the house has been sold. I'd love to rescue this machine, but I don't have anywhere near enough room for it :^( Is there anyone in the area that can rescue it rather than seeing it scrapped? (I'm pretty sure that will be its fate as it was a scrapper that contacted me about it.) If possible I'll try to at least rescue software and doc's. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 4 09:07:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Tru64 Hobbyist Upgrades Message-ID: OK, this is decidedly off-topic, however, it's likely to be of interest to some of the people here. I was looking for some info yesterday and discovered that Compaq now has Tru64 V5.1 available via the Tru64 hobbyist program for $100, or $40 for a upgrade from V5.0 or V5.0A (I didn't even know hobbyists could get V5.0A). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Jan 4 09:23:44 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed ( really WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS) Message-ID: Bill Bradford asked about WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS. We actually use it every day to transcribe all of our Radiology reports. The AIX based Radiology system we have only accepts transcription from WordPerfect 5.1. Two of our users run serial links to the AIX box to send in the WordPerfect files. We don't need anything but plain text and spell checking. It has worked flawlessly for the last 3 years I have been here. I probably actually have several copies of the software and manuals. Let me check if you really want a copy. Please contact me direct and we can work out mailing/shipping. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 4 09:45:25 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed ( really WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS) In-Reply-To: from "McFadden, Mike" at "Jan 4, 1 09:23:44 am" Message-ID: <200101041545.HAA11786@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > We actually use it every day to transcribe all of our Radiology reports. > The AIX based Radiology system we have only accepts transcription from > WordPerfect 5.1. Two of our users run serial links to the AIX box to send > in the WordPerfect files. We don't need anything but plain text and spell > checking. It has worked flawlessly for the last 3 years I have been here. Hey, I'd love a copy for AIX too! I run 4.1.4 on this system. Just a binary would be all I'd require. We used to use it on the old RS/6000s down in the basement (a system was entirely allocated for it, unimaginatively called "wp"). This was in the bad old days of thicknet stretching like unbreakable tendrils of some fibrous boa constrictor around the helpless, writing corpus of PLNU. Good metaphor, eh? :-) Unfortunately, they retired the systems about two years ago. I'm trying to get my hands on one before they end up scrapping the lot. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Conceit causes more conversation than wit. -- LaRouchefoucauld ------------- From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Jan 4 11:06:53 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: VAX-11/750 Rescue in Portland, Oregon Message-ID: <20010104170653.B79BE20F35@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-01-04 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >I just found out about a VAX-11/750 that is apparently in the >Portland area that is in desparate need of Rescue. From talking to >the woman that's trying to take care of this for her parents, it >sounds like they'd like to get money or at least a tax credit for >this. It apparently includes software and documentation, and it is >supposed to be fully working. If you can't find anyone who ran rescue the entire machine, I would be very much interested in the cards that are in it. I want to revive my own 11/750, but it has only 5MB of memory so I am in need of more memory cards. The latest version of NetBSD doesn't really work well in 5MB anymore. Unfortunately I live in The Netherlands, so I can't come over to collect them :( Regards, Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 4 11:02:42 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: VAX-11/750 Rescue in Portland, Oregon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I just found out about a VAX-11/750 that is apparently in the Portland > area that is in desparate need of Rescue. From talking to the woman > that's trying to take care of this for her parents, it sounds like > they'd like to get money or at least a tax credit for this. It > apparently includes software and documentation, and it is supposed to > be fully working. I'd love to have it myself but I can't offer either. I don't think any computer museum will want it either since it's relatively common. And if they want more than, say, $100 at the very most then they're in trouble. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 4 15:40:49 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: VAX-11/750 Rescue in Portland, Oregon References: <20010104170653.B79BE20F35@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <3A54EDE1.725D@xs4all.nl> Kees, Ben jij geinteresseerd in een field doc set van een 11/750? Groeten, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 4 16:11:25 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: VAX-11/750 Rescue in Portland, Oregon References: <20010104170653.B79BE20F35@mail.iae.nl> <3A54EDE1.725D@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3A54F50D.3A58@xs4all.nl> Oops! A bit to quick hitting the 'send' button. Ed wanderer wrote: > > Kees, > > Ben jij geinteresseerd in een field doc set van een 11/750? > > Groeten, > > Ed > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: > zakkenvullers > http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | > '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Jan 4 15:42:32 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148EA@msx1.cboe.com> Richard: The historically interesting thing about the ALTAIR has how insanely primitive it was when it became the sensation that sparked the PC revolution. Putting a disk on an ALTAIR is kind of cool, but it misses the point of how primitive they really were. Yes, parallel logic is much more consistent with the Altair era. My keyboard is 8-bit parallel, my paper tape reader is 8-bit parallel. The only common serial devices were Teletype machines (because of their evolution from the telegraph). Teletypes were the most common "terminal" in use back then. Not for me, though, I have a surplus, converted Friden Flexowriter, (or boat anchor), that we modified to be parallel. Do you even know what paper tape is ? I think that every ALTAIR had to deal with paper tape at some point. Magnetic media were too unreliable. I have a cute little optical paper tape reader that has a row of 9 LEDs and a corresponding row of photodiodes. It sends data as eight bits in parallel. There is a row of little holes in the third position that is normally intended to tractor the paper tape through a teletype machine. The optical paper tape reader uses this hole as a clock signal for software handshaking with the ALTAIR through a parallel port. To load BASIC, you entered a tiny loader program through the front panel switches. This program just looked for the tape reader's clock bit, delayed a little, then read the rest of the byte and stored it in memory. When you loaded Bill Gate's BASIC, the first data loaded was a more robust checksum loader. This loader quickly took control and if everything summed correctly after then rest of the tape was read, BASIC was running when you were done. By the way, in the beginning, ALTAIR BASIC WAS the "Operating System". Through PEEKs and POKEs executed from your BASIC programs, you could control all of your hardware. I also have a "VDM-1" video display card. We converted an old TV work with this. After BASIC was loaded, we add a "patch" for this through the front panel switches. That was another interesting thing about the ALTAIR, you could always take control of your computer through the front panel switches. There was no "reset" button to hit when your system crashed, your just went in and looked at what happened. Usually, you went to location 0 and hit "run" to get out of a crash. A "nasty" crash was when an loop overwrote your memory. This happened fairly often too. It was always kind of interesting to look at the patterns that appeared in the memory when these crashes occurred. I have always thought that if I wanted to be able to easily "boot" my ALTAIR to show it off, I would construct a box that would let me load and save my programs to a modern PC through this parallel port. Maybe just a BASIC stamp chip. I never kept up with disk controller technology I don't really know what a WD1002 is. Are your Altairs original or "B" models ? I hate to think that as an "original" Altair owner, I am, myself, a museum piece :-) I am only 39 years old. When I listen to the war stories of 80 year olds, I might think of THEM as museum pieces. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher [SMTP:edick@idcomm.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 6:16 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... Yeah ... I've got a copy of that MITS DISK BASIC lying about somewhere, though there's no documentation on hand. The deal is that (1) with one of my scrap S-100 PCB's hacked into a WD1K channel, the Altair can then talk to a WD1002-05 HD/FD Controller, as I'm putting in the MITS HDC box, and use that to operate the mix of 5-1/4" hard and floppy disks in the second box. It requires no S-100 FDC of any sort. Since BIOS code abounds for the WD controllers, I'd say it's not only a cool set of hardware, but a slick way to get the OS running if it's not already, and I do have HD drives in the form of a "back-end" driver, for the WD1K series, that can be autoloaded on boot if CP/M is already running. However, using a parallel port board would be more consisitent with what was done with the original Altair system: the one with the small desk built on the table-high rack with a desk extending to one side. It used a parallel port sort of thingie to talk to the SMD interface in the HDC box, and that, in turn, talked to the CDC HAWK drive in the top portion of the rack pedestal onto which the desktop was fitted. I could put in some sort of parallel port thingie, and 8255, or perhaps a pair of input ports and a pair of output ports, to provide the bits necessary to do the job. The channel interface is a lot slicker and faster, though, and TTL will drive the cable a lot better than an 8255. Either one will work, but I've no "feel" for what would be preferred by the typical Altair owner. Of course I'm particularly interested in placing this stuff with someone to whom an Altair isn't an Altair if any of the hardware doesn't say MITS on it, though only the boxes in this set are original MITS. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > From: Rob Kapteyn > > > >Hey wait a minute ... > >A BIOS on an Altair ? > > > >Sure there were add-ons (years later) that did this, but if you really > want authenticity this is what we did -- > > > >I always had to "boot" my Altair with a simple paper tape loader program > entered from the switches on > >front panel. I did this so many times, I had the 30 octal codes > memorized. > > > Often several times until it read the cassette correctly! Saving stuff > was easy though bets were > off if you could read it later. > > First homebrew board 8223 (x2 for 64 bytes plus 2 7489s for 16bytes of > scratch ram) prom boot! > > >Once I had Altair BASIC loaded, I generally kept the machine powered up > as long as possible. > > > Or until it crashed! > > >I never knew anyone who actually had a actual floppy for their Altair. > >I seem to remember that they cost more than the computer itself, and the > computer was quite >expensive --($2,000 1974 dollars). > > > I built and debugged two of them for others. > > Allison > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 4 17:10:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148EA@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <000f01c076a3$78f76580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> So ... you're of the opinion that Altair computers shouldn't have a disk? MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the dress-panel saying "Altair Hard Disk Controller" got on these boxes. The box bearing "Altair Floppy Disk Drive" on the front dress panel suggests the MITS people didn't feel the system was complete without one. I got these boxes in '81 or so, as they were liquidated from a MITS inventory auction, and I got a load of transformers as well. Actually, I do remember quite well what paper tape is/was, having been a computer professional back when computers occupied whole floors of buildings, but I don't remember ever seeing paper tape used on a computer. I don't doubt thta it was, though. My recollection was that the original Altair had no I/O devices at all. To me that didn't suggest it was complete without them, but it did suggest it was a work in progress when it appeared on the mag cover in '75 or whenever. It's going to take a couple of days for me to get my head around the concept you seem to project. I have always thought it was a mistake to refer a computer with non-MITS-original hardware as an Altair. I kind-of see folks calling it a FORD if it says FORD on it, even if the engine is from a Chrysler and the transmission is from a DeSoto. Please see the comments I've embedded in your reply, quoted below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Kapteyn" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: RE: Altair Owners ... > Richard: > > The historically interesting thing about the ALTAIR has how insanely > primitive it was when it became the sensation that sparked the PC revolution. > Putting a disk on an ALTAIR is kind of cool, but it misses the point of how > primitive they really were. > I'm sure that was primitive. > > Yes, parallel logic is much more consistent with the Altair era. > My keyboard is 8-bit parallel, my paper tape reader is 8-bit parallel. > How were they interfaced? > > The only common serial devices were Teletype machines (because of their > evolution from the telegraph). > Teletypes were the most common "terminal" in use back then. > Teletype was a terminal equipment manufacturer. That's why so many terminals had the Teletype label. > > Not for me, though, I have a surplus, converted Friden Flexowriter, (or > boat anchor), that we modified to be parallel. > > Do you even know what paper tape is ? > I think that every ALTAIR had to deal with paper tape at some point. > Did MITS make a paper-tape-specific interface? Did they sell a paper tape drive? > > Magnetic media were too unreliable. > I'm not so sure about that. What I seem to recall is that the interfaces to the magnetic media that were available for microcomputers were what was unreliable, since microcomputers were such stepchildren in the mid-'70's. My employer was the owner of the first IBM '370 in our state. Their tapes and floppy disks didn's seem to cause much trouble, but they were expensive. > > I have a cute little optical paper tape reader that has a row of 9 LEDs and > a corresponding row of photodiodes. > It sends data as eight bits in parallel. > There is a row of little holes in the third position that is normally > intended to tractor the paper tape through a teletype machine. > The optical paper tape reader uses this hole as a clock signal for software > handshaking with the ALTAIR through a parallel port. > Did MITS produce a parallel port that was used for that purpose? > The paper tape I dealt with most in the early '70's was that 18-level tape on 2" wide paper. It was widely used in traffic monitoring devices used to count axles. I built (yes, I placed the LED's and sensors in a plastic block located in an aluminum base I machined for that purpose, and patched an interface to a portable calculator into it so the things could be read and the data stored in the battery-operated calculator and later downloaded to a minicomputer). I even built a version that used a "standard" set of mechanical feelers used for reading paper tape by looking for a connection through the hole in the tape. As on your optical reader, the feeler that engaged the sprocket hole on the tape was used for timing. > > To load BASIC, you entered a tiny loader program through the front panel > switches. > The software I have for the Cromemco TV Dazzler board is on paper tape. I've seen people toggle in a "dumb" loader for paper tape, then load a program using the paper tape to load a program smart enough to read the little DECTAPE on a PDP-8. > > This program just looked for the tape reader's clock bit, delayed a little, > then read the rest of the byte and stored it in memory. > When you loaded Bill Gate's BASIC, the first data loaded was a more robust > checksum loader. > > This loader quickly took control and if everything summed correctly after > then rest of the tape was read, BASIC was running when you were done. > > By the way, in the beginning, ALTAIR BASIC WAS the "Operating System". > Through PEEKs and POKEs executed from your BASIC programs, you could > control all of your hardware. > I'm under the impression that the Altair Disk Basic, of which I have a copy, works the same way. > > I also have a "VDM-1" video display card. We converted an old TV work > with this. > After BASIC was loaded, we add a "patch" for this through the front panel > switches. > > That was another interesting thing about the ALTAIR, you could always take > control of your computer through the front panel switches. > There was no "reset" button to hit when your system crashed, your just went > in and looked at what happened. > Usually, you went to location 0 and hit "run" to get out of a crash. > A "nasty" crash was when an loop overwrote your memory. > This happened fairly often too. > It was always kind of interesting to look at the patterns that appeared in > the memory when these crashes occurred. > > I have always thought that if I wanted to be able to easily "boot" my > ALTAIR to show it off, I would construct > a box that would let me load and save my programs to a modern PC through > this parallel port. > Maybe just a BASIC stamp chip. > > I never kept up with disk controller technology > I don't really know what a WD1002 is. > Are your Altairs original or "B" models ? > I don't own an Altair at all. I bought the 80 boxes I bough back in '80-'81 for a project unrelated to Altairs. The boxes I ordered had no dress-panels and were, in fact, just the shells for the "Altair Floppy Disk Drive" still in the plastic wrap as shipped to MITS. The controller boxes and the one complete Floppy Disk Drive were included with my order of boxes and transformers, gratis, and not included on the shipping manifest. > > I hate to think that as an "original" Altair owner, I am, myself, a museum > piece :-) > > I am only 39 years old. > Well, I guess I'm closer to being the "real McCoy" since I was nearly your age when I acquired these boxes. > > When I listen to the war stories of 80-year-olds, I might think of THEM as museum pieces. > I hope you value what you can gain from them as much as what you can gain from your Altair. > > -Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [SMTP:edick@idcomm.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 6:16 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > > Yeah ... I've got a copy of that MITS DISK BASIC lying about somewhere, > though there's no documentation on hand. > > The deal is that (1) with one of my scrap S-100 PCB's hacked into a WD1K > channel, the Altair can then talk to a WD1002-05 HD/FD Controller, as I'm > putting in the MITS HDC box, and use that to operate the mix of 5-1/4" hard > and floppy disks in the second box. It requires no S-100 FDC of any sort. > Since BIOS code abounds for the WD controllers, I'd say it's not only a > cool > set of hardware, but a slick way to get the OS running if it's not already, > and I do have HD drives in the form of a "back-end" driver, for the WD1K > series, that can be autoloaded on boot if CP/M is already running. > > However, using a parallel port board would be more consisitent with what > was > done with the original Altair system: the one with the small desk built on > the table-high rack with a desk extending to one side. It used a parallel > port sort of thingie to talk to the SMD interface in the HDC box, and that, > in turn, talked to the CDC HAWK drive in the top portion of the rack > pedestal onto which the desktop was fitted. > > I could put in some sort of parallel port thingie, and 8255, or perhaps a > pair of input ports and a pair of output ports, to provide the bits > necessary to do the job. The channel interface is a lot slicker and > faster, > though, and TTL will drive the cable a lot better than an 8255. > > Either one will work, but I've no "feel" for what would be preferred by the > typical Altair owner. Of course I'm particularly interested in placing > this > stuff with someone to whom an Altair isn't an Altair if any of the hardware > doesn't say MITS on it, though only the boxes in this set are original > MITS. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ajp166" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > > > > From: Rob Kapteyn > > > > > > >Hey wait a minute ... > > >A BIOS on an Altair ? > > > > > >Sure there were add-ons (years later) that did this, but if you really > > want authenticity this is what we did -- > > > > > >I always had to "boot" my Altair with a simple paper tape loader program > > entered from the switches on > > >front panel. I did this so many times, I had the 30 octal codes > > memorized. > > > > > > Often several times until it read the cassette correctly! Saving stuff > > was easy though bets were > > off if you could read it later. > > > > First homebrew board 8223 (x2 for 64 bytes plus 2 7489s for 16bytes of > > scratch ram) prom boot! > > > > >Once I had Altair BASIC loaded, I generally kept the machine powered up > > as long as possible. > > > > > > Or until it crashed! > > > > >I never knew anyone who actually had a actual floppy for their Altair. > > >I seem to remember that they cost more than the computer itself, and the > > computer was quite >expensive --($2,000 1974 dollars). > > > > > > I built and debugged two of them for others. > > > > Allison > > > > > > From nemo at nethouse.goldweb.com.au Thu Jan 4 17:39:59 2001 From: nemo at nethouse.goldweb.com.au (Owen Cameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:01 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 11:44:57PM +0000 References: <20010104085116.B9743@nethouse.goldweb.com.au> Message-ID: <20010105103958.A27624@nethouse.goldweb.com.au> On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 11:44:57PM +0000, Tony Duell did utter: > > > IIRC, most Tektronix storage-tube terminals display a flashing cursor > (may be rather dim) in the top left corner after power-up. Are you > getting that? Nope... the screen brightens - with a fuzzy circle in the center... eventually he whole screen is bright. Nothing I've ever done yet has affected this. > Also, isn't there a LOCAL switch or similar? If there is, then the > keyboard is connected to the display section (and the RS232 port isn't > used) in LOCAL mode. So anything you type shoudl appear on the screen. Yup, there is a [Local|Line] toggle on teh front, next to a power light which doesn't appear to work, two LED's I've never seen light up, and three more toggles (simply called 1, 2, 3) > What baud rate, etc, are you usimg, and do you know that the terminal is > set for the same parameters? There are a couple of nice big chunky knobs on teh back to set the transmit and recieve baud rate (yes, independantly!) from 110 up to 9600. Also a third knob with duplex settings. I have working null modem cables... but no luck. There are three further adjusetments knobs on the terminal. Two on teh front, one vertial and one horizontal (and labelled as such with arrows) - I assume these are crude focus or alignment adjustments. There is also a small dial on the side - I assume it might be brightness? In any case, none of these have any affect to the green blur display. I took a few webcam shots of the thing powering up a few days back, if anyone is curious on the look... they're at: http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/visible/tempt/tek4012/ .../Nemo From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Thu Jan 4 17:53:15 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: The Grinch concept album. In-Reply-To: <000f01c076a3$78f76580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000001c076a9$81566f90$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> I'm bringing this up partially since I've haven't seen any mention in any "Subject" lines (not that it couldnt've come up in the middle of another topic as most things have.) "The Grinch that stole Christmas", the new movie may not be the greatest, But, in its attempt to flesh out the concept to a full 90 minutes or so, the producers made great efforts to show the life of a Dumpster Diver. There are sets and special effects to back this up and lines like "You'd never believe what people throw out nowadays" and the like. So... When a you get a chance to see it, do so, if at least to compare notes. I actually felt slightly embarrassed and enlightened at a couple of the lines. The idea is that this may not be the best choice of life to lead... Also please see attached the new pictures of my packed living room complete with mini-fork lift. Peace everyone. John A. From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Jan 4 16:43:57 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: <000f01c076a3$78f76580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the > dress-panel saying "Altair Hard Disk Controller" got on these boxes. The > box bearing "Altair Floppy Disk Drive" on the front dress panel suggests the > MITS people didn't feel the system was complete without one. I got these > boxes in '81 or so, as they were liquidated from a MITS inventory auction, > and I got a load of transformers as well. FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, and then Percom ended up buying ICOM around the same time they bought MITS. -- Doug From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Jan 4 16:46:03 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Doug Salot wrote: > FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom > bought MITS. s/Percom/Pertec -- Doug From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 4 18:51:11 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: Message-ID: <001601c076b1$9938cf60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Just how long did Percom own MITS? It's been a while, but I seem to remember that I heard about the purchase of MITS by Percom at about the same time that I considered whether or not to buy these boxes. That was in '80 or '81, but there could be a year or two running around in there somewhere. I believed, until now, that the MITS floppy disk drive for the Altair was a MUCH earlier type of drive than my oldest SA-900's and early GSI drives. The MITS technology was definitely stone-age by comparison. Though the drives were mostly plastic, and the interconnections were non-standard, I guess it's possible that these were ten years later than they looked. This stuff doesn't all line up with a reasonable time-line, based on the technology, with when it was available, and when it was obsolete, nor does it seem to line up with the dates by which things seemed to have happened. One has to keep in mind that by 1980, Shugart was on their third level of board revision for their popular model 800/801 drives. The second-revision boards were available on drives in distribution, but the LSI board was available. The technology in the MITS drive was, by comparison, more like '60's technology. Maybe they just bought up some surplus and obsolete drives because they were cheap. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Salot" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the > > dress-panel saying "Altair Hard Disk Controller" got on these boxes. The > > box bearing "Altair Floppy Disk Drive" on the front dress panel suggests the > > MITS people didn't feel the system was complete without one. I got these > > boxes in '81 or so, as they were liquidated from a MITS inventory auction, > > and I got a load of transformers as well. > > FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom > bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, > and then Percom ended up buying ICOM around the same time they bought > MITS. > > -- Doug > > From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Jan 4 17:55:34 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: <001601c076b1$9938cf60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >From various blurbs, the timeline I have is: Altair came out in 1975, Pertec bought MITS (and ICOM?) around May/June 1977, and Pertec killed the Altair line in July 1978. -- Doug On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Just how long did Percom own MITS? It's been a while, but I seem to > remember that I heard about the purchase of MITS by Percom at about the same > time that I considered whether or not to buy these boxes. That was in '80 > or '81, but there could be a year or two running around in there somewhere. > I believed, until now, that the MITS floppy disk drive for the Altair was a > MUCH earlier type of drive than my oldest SA-900's and early GSI drives. > The MITS technology was definitely stone-age by comparison. Though the > drives were mostly plastic, and the interconnections were non-standard, I > guess it's possible that these were ten years later than they looked. > > This stuff doesn't all line up with a reasonable time-line, based on the > technology, with when it was available, and when it was obsolete, nor does > it seem to line up with the dates by which things seemed to have happened. > One has to keep in mind that by 1980, Shugart was on their third level of > board revision for their popular model 800/801 drives. The second-revision > boards were available on drives in distribution, but the LSI board was > available. The technology in the MITS drive was, by comparison, more like > '60's technology. Maybe they just bought up some surplus and obsolete > drives because they were cheap. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Salot" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:43 PM > Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > > > > On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the > > > dress-panel saying "Altair Hard Disk Controller" got on these boxes. > The > > > box bearing "Altair Floppy Disk Drive" on the front dress panel suggests > the > > > MITS people didn't feel the system was complete without one. I got > these > > > boxes in '81 or so, as they were liquidated from a MITS inventory > auction, > > > and I got a load of transformers as well. > > > > FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom > > bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, > > and then Percom ended up buying ICOM around the same time they bought > > MITS. > > > > -- Doug > > > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 4 19:13:10 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <003a01c076b6$0356a7b0$38799a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher > >without physically modifying the orignal boxes, though that's not always >easy. I'm curious about whether a "real" Altair user has preference for one >or the other of the two modes of interfacing the clearly not original MITS My $0.02 is unless it's a 8800B a stock Altair unmodded is not something I'd desire to run. To collect as static historical item unmodded is fine. Over the years it was rare I that I'd see a Altair 8800(A) that was pure altair. I knew of only one, it was one cranky beast! Allison From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Jan 4 19:34:05 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c076a3$78f76580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010104172857.02298740@agora.rdrop.com> At 05:43 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Doug wrote: >FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom >bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, >and then Percom ended up buying ICOM around the same time they bought >MITS. I think not... Both from memory and your timeline for Pertec's acqusition of MITS in a later message. The Altair 8 inch floppy disk subsystem was available in late 1975 as evidenced in a MITS catalog (shown on my web site) and a mid-1976 price list. Although they did use Pertec floppy drive mechanisms. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 4 19:29:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: <20010105103958.A27624@nethouse.goldweb.com.au> from "Owen Cameron" at Jan 5, 1 10:39:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2353 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010105/c3277cff/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 4 19:34:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: and a LSI-11/23 Rescue in Portland, Oregon Message-ID: I just got some further info on the VAX, and the PDP-11 that's available. I'd not mentioned the PDP-11 earlier as I was interested :^) VAX-11/750 w/4MB RAM and 134MB Drive LSI-11/23 w/Cypher Tape drive, two 8" floppies, and RL02 Turns out her Dad was the author of "Planet" (not sure on the spelling). It was some kind of computer based instruction software. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 4 19:48:21 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Dilog SCSI controllers Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010104174607.03396030@208.226.86.10> Ok, interesting question here, I now have both a Dilog 703 and a Dilog 706. The 703 is a TMSCP tape controller and the 706 is a MSCP disk controller. (at work I have a 736 that does both, but I don't think they are the same) The circuits are of course identical and I'm trying to figure out if Dilog used a PAL change like Viking did or just a firmware change between the two of them? If it is just firmware then perhaps I can help Ben turn his controller into a disk controller. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 4 19:39:16 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Doug Salot wrote: > On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the > > dress-panel saying "Altair Hard Disk Controller" got on these boxes. The > > box bearing "Altair Floppy Disk Drive" on the front dress panel suggests the > > MITS people didn't feel the system was complete without one. I got these > > boxes in '81 or so, as they were liquidated from a MITS inventory auction, > > and I got a load of transformers as well. > > FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom > bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, > and then Percom ended up buying ICOM around the same time they bought > MITS. s/Percom/Pertec (call me a smart-ass ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 4 21:55:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Dilog 706 and 703 ctrlllers Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010104195443.02de41b0@208.226.86.10> Does anyone have handy the jumper changes to make a Dilog DQ706 and DQ703 the *second* MSCP and TMSCP controllers respectively? --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 4 21:37:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <003a01c076b6$0356a7b0$38799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <004001c076cb$45f69340$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, I neither own, nor want to own, an Altair computer. I just already own the stuff I've been writing about and want ot turn it into something as useful as possible. As I've often heard, Altair had the reputation that nothing they ever shipped worked as shipped, often either requiring one pay for a service of modifying it at the plant before it was shipped, or to fix it or have it fixed once it had arrived. From a historical perspective, an Altair that actually works is an anomaly. That explains why they're all different. Nevertheless, after the passage of some time and the addition of a number of vendors to the S-100 market which grew out of the Altair, it was possible to purchase, from MITS, a complete Altair computer system that was packaged in a sort of half-desk, with a rackmount pedestal at one end in which the computer hardware lived. I remember asking about this system here on the list about three years back, and found that someone actually had a pretty good picture of it on their website. It apparently used a CDC Hawk drive interfaced via this Altair Hard Disk Controller, the box for which is what I'm messing with, and it used an 8800B, and the Altair Floppy Disk Drive I once owned. It's the functional philosophy of the finished and complete Altair system that I'm interested in preserving, if that's warranted, and I'm beginning to believe it's a waste of effort. It's apparent from what I've gotten from this thread so far, that attention to detail such as that, and providing self-installing drivers for CP/M would be a waste of time, and would not increase the practical or economic value of this hardware one iota. Perhaps making it all work would simply reduce its appeal. It's likely everyone in this forum is aware that the 1975 Altair was totally useless. It had no I/O, no software, no nothing that held out any hope of making it useful. The only thing it did have is potential. The miracle that Ed Roberts pulled off, ultimately involving Bill Gates, among others, is in recognizing that there were so many people out there who'd buy light blinkers and buzzers, etc, just to be playing with electronics. There were already computers. Some of them were pretty expensive, and the Altair was no cheapie either, particularly since it really didn't work, even after you fixed it, since work was an undefined quantity for a CPU with no I/O. The real miracle, however, was in turning the potential into something real, namely software. The I/O wasn't the real problem. The absence of software was the problem and we all know who fixed that. Once that problem was addressed, the rest was pretty automatic, as the demand pressed the missing pieces in to existence. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > >without physically modifying the orignal boxes, though that's not always > >easy. I'm curious about whether a "real" Altair user has preference for > one > >or the other of the two modes of interfacing the clearly not original > MITS > > > My $0.02 is unless it's a 8800B a stock Altair unmodded is not something > I'd desire to run. To collect as static historical item unmodded is > fine. > > Over the years it was rare I that I'd see a Altair 8800(A) that was pure > altair. > I knew of only one, it was one cranky beast! > > Allison > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 4 21:55:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <000f01c076a3$78f76580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010104172857.02298740@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <004101c076cb$4b756f80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> That's more like what I remember, and it aligns better with the technology I saw in the FDD box. I don't know what went in the HDC box, since the ones I have are complete only as far as the card cage. The PSU hardware technology is about the same as what was in the FDD box. The cards and rear access cover are missing so have no idea what sort of technology was involved. I'll make new ones that cover the opening properly and accomodate useable connectors. There will be host<=>bridge controller cabling and controller<=>disk-drive-box cabling, so that will be a job, particularly since the controller accomodates both floppies and hard disks. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > At 05:43 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Doug wrote: > > >FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom > >bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, > >and then Percom ended up buying ICOM around the same time they bought > >MITS. > > I think not... Both from memory and your timeline for Pertec's acqusition > of MITS in a later message. The Altair 8 inch floppy disk subsystem was > available in late 1975 as evidenced in a MITS catalog (shown on my web > site) and a mid-1976 price list. Although they did use Pertec floppy drive > mechanisms. > > -jim > > --- > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. > Current web site and email shown above > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jan 4 23:13:47 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: <000f01c076a3$78f76580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148EA@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010105001347.3af72b7e@mailhost.intellistar.net> > >My recollection was that the original Altair had no I/O devices at all. That's not quite true. They did have the front panel :-) Joe From jpdavis at gorge.net Thu Jan 4 22:35:25 2001 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 References: Message-ID: <3A554F0D.1E0FA79@gorge.net> I have a 4012 service manual, but it's so buried that I don't know if I can located it. I'm going home next weekend, I'll take a look, if no one else has one available and posts as such here. Jim Davis. Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 11:44:57PM +0000, Tony Duell did utter: > > > > > > > IIRC, most Tektronix storage-tube terminals display a flashing cursor > > > (may be rather dim) in the top left corner after power-up. Are you > > > getting that? > > > > Nope... the screen brightens - with a fuzzy circle in the center... > > eventually he whole screen is bright. Nothing I've ever done yet has > > affected this. > > SOunds like the flood guns (part of the storage system) are working, at > least partially, but the writing gun might not be. Or at least might not > be turned on by the control electronics. > > Alas I don't have the 4012 service manual, only the 4014 one. These > storage CRTs can be a little difficult to work on unless you're used to > them as well.. > > > > > > Also, isn't there a LOCAL switch or similar? If there is, then the > > > keyboard is connected to the display section (and the RS232 port isn't > > > used) in LOCAL mode. So anything you type shoudl appear on the screen. > > > > Yup, there is a [Local|Line] toggle on teh front, next to a power light > > which doesn't appear to work, two LED's I've never seen light up, and three > > I wonder if the power lamp is burnt out, or if there's a PSU fault. > > > more toggles (simply called 1, 2, 3) > > > > > What baud rate, etc, are you usimg, and do you know that the terminal is > > > set for the same parameters? > > > > There are a couple of nice big chunky knobs on teh back to set the transmit > > and recieve baud rate (yes, independantly!) from 110 up to 9600. Also a > > OK... > > > third knob with duplex settings. I have working null modem cables... but > > no luck. > > > > There are three further adjusetments knobs on the terminal. Two on teh > > front, one vertial and one horizontal (and labelled as such with arrows) - I > > Those IIRC are a bit like a mouse -- you can read the positions over the > serial line. And thus use them as a pointing device. > > > assume these are crude focus or alignment adjustments. There is also a small > > dial on the side - I assume it might be brightness? In any case, none of > > Probably brightness of the writing gun. > > My next test would be to check the voltages on the logic boards -- at > least ensure that the +5V line and the +/-12V lines (for the RS232 > drivers) are there. And then you need to find somebody with a service > manual and see what the wiriting gun is doing. > > -tony From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 4 22:42:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148EA@msx1.cboe.com> <3.0.1.16.20010105001347.3af72b7e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000b01c076d1$e9f40620$1192fea9@idcomm.com> That's right, and, for the bell-ringing, lights blinking set, the readers of pop-tronix, that was enough! It was really clever of Ed Roberts to think up that as a marketing tool to help him get so me cash flowing in. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:13 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > > > >My recollection was that the original Altair had no I/O devices at all. > > That's not quite true. They did have the front panel :-) > > Joe > > From west at jade.tseinc.com Thu Jan 4 22:44:13 2001 From: west at jade.tseinc.com (The West Family) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: pdp-11/23 Message-ID: <200101050444.WAA11708@jade.tseinc.com> I'm not interested in the 11/23, I have about 4 of those - but I would definitely be interested in the RL02 drive if no one owants it. Jay West From ahm at spies.com Thu Jan 4 23:04:48 2001 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: OT: need AC adapter for OmniBook 4000 Message-ID: <20010105000448.Q230@spies.com> (This doesn't meet the 10-year rule, but I've looked everywhere else) I'm in need of an AC adapter for a Hewlett-Packard OmniBook 4000CT laptop. I don't know the model number, but the machine takes 21VDC. (That's not a typo. It takes takes twenty one volts). If you have one to sell, please contact me off list. Thanks, Andy From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Jan 4 23:49:26 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... In-Reply-To: <004001c076cb$45f69340$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <003a01c076b6$0356a7b0$38799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010104213019.0229a3b0@agora.rdrop.com> At 08:37 PM 1/4/01 -0700, Dick wrote: >As I've often heard, Altair had the reputation that nothing they ever >shipped worked as shipped, often either requiring one pay for a service of >modifying it at the plant before it was shipped, or to fix it or have it >fixed once it had arrived. From a historical perspective, an Altair that >actually works is an anomaly. That explains why they're all different. I tend to think that these reports are somewhat overblown, as I had (and still have) an early Altair as well as most of the other major Altair models in the collection, and built a number of others in my jobs in the early days and never had the types of problems that I seem to keep seeing recounted. And all of my machines still run quite happily. Heck, I had the 'B' unit running MITS Timeshared BASIC at VCF 3.0 >Nevertheless, after the passage of some time and the addition of a number of >vendors to the S-100 market which grew out of the Altair, it was possible to >purchase, from MITS, a complete Altair computer system that was packaged in >a sort of half-desk, with a rackmount pedestal at one end in which the >computer hardware lived. The MITS/Pertec "Business System" >I remember asking about this system here on the >list about three years back, and found that someone actually had a pretty >good picture of it on their website. Well, I have a picture on my web site although not the greatest shot. >It apparently used a CDC Hawk drive Ummm... no. It used a Pertec 5mb cartridge hard drive. However, if you want to talk stories... I did have CDC 'Hawk' drives running on S-100 boxed running CP/M via an AM-500 controller. Then at the flip of a switch and change of a cartridge you could boot up AMOS on the Alpha-Micro AM-100 CPU that lived along side of the Z-80 CPU board in the box. >interfaced via this Altair Hard Disk Controller, the box for which is what >I'm messing with, and it used an 8800B, and the Altair Floppy Disk Drive I >once owned. It's the functional philosophy of the finished and complete >Altair system that I'm interested in preserving, if that's warranted, and >I'm beginning to believe it's a waste of effort. It's apparent from what >I've gotten from this thread so far, that attention to detail such as that, >and providing self-installing drivers for CP/M would be a waste of time, and >would not increase the practical or economic value of this hardware one >iota. Perhaps making it all work would simply reduce its appeal. One point of view... From my side, I prefer running systems. B^} >It's likely everyone in this forum is aware that the 1975 Altair was totally >useless. (donning the flame retardant suit) It's "likely" that this view would represent those who came into the 'personal computer' realm after 1980 when most of the hard work had already been done. I found my 1976 Altair *far* from useless, even though it had no I/O beyond the front panel switches and lights, and a total of 4k of memory. It was an invaluable learning tool. >It had no I/O, no software, no nothing that held out any hope of >making it useful. The only thing it did have is potential. The miracle >that Ed Roberts pulled off, ultimately involving Bill Gates, among others, >is in recognizing that there were so many people out there who'd buy light >blinkers and buzzers, etc, just to be playing with electronics. There were >already computers. Some of them were pretty expensive, and the Altair was >no cheapie either, particularly since it really didn't work, even after you >fixed it, since work was an undefined quantity for a CPU with no I/O. So, from this statement I take it anything that was not 'ready to fly' was worthless? Seems like one heck of an industry grew from a pile of 'useless' stuff. Altairs, AIM-65's, Scelbi's, the Mark-8, etc... All of which started with limited resources and little to no I/O. >The real miracle, however, was in turning the potential into something real, >namely software. The I/O wasn't the real problem. The absence of software >was the problem and we all know who fixed that. Yes... The early hobbiests and tinkerers who saw the potential. Gates and Co. did nothing revolutionary. >Once that problem was addressed, the rest was pretty automatic, as the >demand pressed the missing pieces in to existence. And created the painful commodity item that the masses are stuck with today. (sigh) -jim jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From whdawson at mlynk.com Thu Jan 4 23:57:37 2001 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c076dc$67ef69c0$fa9e72d1@cobweb.net> -> SOunds like the flood guns (part of the storage system) are working, at -> least partially, but the writing gun might not be. Or at least might not -> be turned on by the control electronics. As usual, Tony's comments and suggestions are right on target. Also, I've found that the pots in these units sometimes need rocked if the unit has been stored quite a while. Take resistance readings from the wiper to the ends and across the ends and look for discrepancies. Then note the position of a suspect wiper before rocking. This can make for an quick and easy fix. Bill From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Jan 5 05:59:24 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:44:57 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell wrote: > As an aside at this point : Everyone on this list should go and get one > of those little RS232 quick testers -- the things with a DB25 plug on one > side, a DB25 socket on the other and 7 (or so) bi-colour LEDs that > monitor (at least) TxD, RxD, RTS, CTS, DSR, DTR, DCD. You'll find > (amongst other things) that it's useful for determining whether an > unknown serial port is a DTE or DCE simply by plugging it in and seeing > wether the TxD LED or RxD LED lights up. I have a Tektronix 833 Serial Comms Tester. Rather a nice bit of kit, with a tiny LED display (hex) and a serial patch-panel built-in. I also have the manual, which gives full repair information. It's a 6800 CPU in there, which I suppose makes the tester a classic computer in its own right. Of course, it's limited to 9600 baud... but then, who's ever seen anything faster than that? :-) -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From ncherry at home.net Fri Jan 5 06:53:46 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? Message-ID: <3A55C3DA.C35993E@home.net> I've managed to boot the 3100 with the Hobbiest CD and now it sits at a '$' prompt. Does anyone have the instructions for install the CD? I had them but can not find them now. Any pointers (links) would be appreciated. Also what/where is the '$' prompt? It doesn't take show commands so I'm guessing I'm stuck in between something. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From kees.stravers at iae.nl Fri Jan 5 07:44:47 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Computer collectors meeting in The Netherlands Message-ID: <20010105134447.81D5320F31@mail.iae.nl> Just in case there are members of this list living in The Netherlands or Belgium that are not members of the Dutch Computer Collectors mailing list (cvml at egroups dot com) I'd like to announce here that the cvml list will have a meeting in Rotterdam on 17 february 2001. If possible, bring some nice old computers. The meeting is organized bij Stefan (stefan at softhome dot net) and Lino (pinoli at publishnet dot nl). A web page (in Dutch) describing the event is at http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/cvml/cvml.html -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From hahaha at sexyfun.net Fri Jan 5 08:24:47 2001 From: hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! Message-ID: <200101050924208.SM00143@fentell01.fentell> Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven Dwarfs enter... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dwarf4you.exe Type: application/octet-stream Size: 23040 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010105/41c82738/dwarf4you.exe From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 5 08:56:46 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? In-Reply-To: <3A55C3DA.C35993E@home.net> Message-ID: >I've managed to boot the 3100 with the Hobbiest CD and now it sits at a >'$' prompt. Does anyone have the instructions for install the CD? I had >them but can not find them now. Any pointers (links) would be appreciated. did you look on the Montagar web site? >Also what/where is the '$' prompt? It doesn't take show commands so I'm >guessing I'm stuck in between something. I think the next step is: $ BACKUP/IMAGE DKA400:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA200: Where DKA400: is your CD-ROM and DKA200: is your HD. When that completes reboot from HD. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Jan 5 09:19:15 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus Message-ID: <00f401c0772a$de05aea0$faea0191@olf.com> DO NOT Open "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!" It has the W95.Hybris.Gen.dr virus. Ram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010105/f74889a3/attachment.html From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Jan 5 09:34:25 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: List spammer tracked down Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010105073425.0097dd40@192.168.42.129> All listmembers: It should be obvious that you do NOT, under ANY conditions, want to execute the file that got spammed to the list. It contains a fairly nasty virus. It should be deleted without hesitation. I've tracked the spammer back to snip.net, and I just got off the phone with their tech support center. The spam is already on its way to them with a request to crater the account responsible. You're welcome. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 5 09:49:44 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: <00f401c0772a$de05aea0$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: Another reason I still like using Pine under a Unix shell account to read my ASCII mail. VT100 emulation. The data stream *is* the content. Hardware requirements: VT-100 terminal, a modem that can dial a POTS line, and the aformentioned line itself. Nothing more. Classic Bliss. /smug smile/ Cheerz and Happy GnuYeer John From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 5 10:04:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... References: <003a01c076b6$0356a7b0$38799a8d@ajp166> <5.0.2.1.0.20010104213019.0229a3b0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <001b01c07731$35e55a20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was your picture of the "business system" that I saw. My understanding is that the interface between the Altair 8800 and the HDC was by way of a parallel port arrangement. What was never clear to me was whether or not there actually was an OS for that system. Did they (Or anyone else) have a CP/M for it? If so, which MITS serial I/O board was used as the default channel for the console? Which MITS board provided the parallel I/O? It happpens that I have a CP/M boot diskette and some listings, etc, associated with an Altair using a Morrow DJ2 FDC. It uses a MITS serial I/O board which is as good as any, I guess, as a model. please see additional remarks below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Willing" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:49 PM Subject: Re: Altair Owners ... > At 08:37 PM 1/4/01 -0700, Dick wrote: > > >As I've often heard, Altair had the reputation that nothing they ever > >shipped worked as shipped, often either requiring one pay for a service of > >modifying it at the plant before it was shipped, or to fix it or have it > >fixed once it had arrived. From a historical perspective, an Altair that > >actually works is an anomaly. That explains why they're all different. > > I tend to think that these reports are somewhat overblown, as I had (and > still have) an early Altair as well as most of the other major Altair > models in the collection, and built a number of others in my jobs in the > early days and never had the types of problems that I seem to keep seeing > recounted. And all of my machines still run quite happily. Heck, I had > the 'B' unit running MITS Timeshared BASIC at VCF 3.0 > > >Nevertheless, after the passage of some time and the addition of a number of > >vendors to the S-100 market which grew out of the Altair, it was possible to > >purchase, from MITS, a complete Altair computer system that was packaged in > >a sort of half-desk, with a rackmount pedestal at one end in which the > >computer hardware lived. > > The MITS/Pertec "Business System" > > >I remember asking about this system here on the > >list about three years back, and found that someone actually had a pretty > >good picture of it on their website. > > Well, I have a picture on my web site although not the greatest shot. > > >It apparently used a CDC Hawk drive > > Ummm... no. It used a Pertec 5mb cartridge hard drive. > > However, if you want to talk stories... I did have CDC 'Hawk' drives > running on S-100 boxed running CP/M via an AM-500 controller. Then at the > flip of a switch and change of a cartridge you could boot up AMOS on the > Alpha-Micro AM-100 CPU that lived along side of the Z-80 CPU board in the box. > > >interfaced via this Altair Hard Disk Controller, the box for which is what > >I'm messing with, and it used an 8800B, and the Altair Floppy Disk Drive I > >once owned. It's the functional philosophy of the finished and complete > >Altair system that I'm interested in preserving, if that's warranted, and > >I'm beginning to believe it's a waste of effort. It's apparent from what > >I've gotten from this thread so far, that attention to detail such as that, > >and providing self-installing drivers for CP/M would be a waste of time, and > >would not increase the practical or economic value of this hardware one > >iota. Perhaps making it all work would simply reduce its appeal. > > One point of view... From my side, I prefer running systems. B^} > > >It's likely everyone in this forum is aware that the 1975 Altair was totally > >useless. > > (donning the flame retardant suit) It's "likely" that this view would > represent those who came into the 'personal computer' realm after 1980 when > most of the hard work had already been done. I found my 1976 Altair *far* > from useless, even though it had no I/O beyond the front panel switches and > lights, and a total of 4k of memory. It was an invaluable learning tool. > Unfortunately, few folks took time to do the learning. > > >It had no I/O, no software, no nothing that held out any hope of > >making it useful. The only thing it did have is potential. The miracle > >that Ed Roberts pulled off, ultimately involving Bill Gates, among others, > >is in recognizing that there were so many people out there who'd buy light > >blinkers and buzzers, etc, just to be playing with electronics. There were > >already computers. Some of them were pretty expensive, and the Altair was > >no cheapie either, particularly since it really didn't work, even after you > >fixed it, since work was an undefined quantity for a CPU with no I/O. > > So, from this statement I take it anything that was not 'ready to fly' was > worthless? Seems like one heck of an industry grew from a pile of > 'useless' stuff. Altairs, AIM-65's, Scelbi's, the Mark-8, etc... All of > which started with limited resources and little to no I/O. > First of all, there's a HUGE difference between "little" and "no" I/O. What I mean is that if it has a keypad and a display, or, for that matter, a front-panel with switches and LEDs, it still can't do much. However, if you add a serial or parallel I/O port, things take on a different hue, since you now can communicate with another intelligent (or dumb) device. There's no comparison at all, say, between an AIM-65 and an Altair. The AIM not only has text I/O but it provides the means to load and save externally stored software. It has software tools including a debugger, assembler, and a BASIC interpreter, and it has quite enough I/O hardware to do quite a bit of useful work, and it has enough resources to make its capabilities comparable to Intel SBC's costing thousands more. Having said that, the Altair certainly held out a promise of things to come. It's that potential that was exploited by so many people to create the situation we have today. Whether we like where we've gotten, well, that's another story. > > >The real miracle, however, was in turning the potential into something real, > >namely software. The I/O wasn't the real problem. The absence of software > >was the problem and we all know who fixed that. > > Yes... The early hobbiests and tinkerers who saw the potential. Gates and > Co. did nothing revolutionary. > No, they did nothing that hadn't already been done at DEC and Intel. However, they did it so it could be sold to the masses, which was not what Intel and DEC wanted to do. > > >Once that problem was addressed, the rest was pretty automatic, as the > >demand pressed the missing pieces in to existence. > > And created the painful commodity item that the masses are stuck with > today. (sigh) > Yes, but it did keep them off our welfare roles, didn't it? They were, after all, (meaning Bill G. & associates) mostly college drop-outs. The goal, after all, was to produce better living for them, and not necessarily ideal computing for us. > > -jim > > jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. > Current web site and email shown above > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jan 5 10:07:25 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? References: <3A55C3DA.C35993E@home.net> Message-ID: <3A55F13D.5070806@mcmanis.com> You have to know what the VMS name of this disk you are going to install, but once you do type: $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY [source]:VMS072.B/SAVE_SET [dest]: Obviously your source and destination have to be the source device and the destination device respectively. On the 3100 I believe they will be DKxn00: (where x is A or B) and n is th e SCSI id. Then boot from your destination device and follow the prompts. --Chuck Neil Cherry wrote: > I've managed to boot the 3100 with the Hobbiest CD and now it sits at a > '$' prompt. Does anyone have the instructions for install the CD? I had > them but can not find them now. Any pointers (links) would be appreciated. > > Also what/where is the '$' prompt? It doesn't take show commands so I'm > guessing I'm stuck in between something. > > Thanks > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 5 10:18:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? References: <3A55C3DA.C35993E@home.net> <3A55F13D.5070806@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <002301c07733$164c23e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I know this is a minor point ... but ... isn't that word supposed to be spelled HOBBYIST? Being a foreigner I'm sensitive to differences in application of suffixes, etc, and the "est" suggests a comparison, while the "st" suffix is used to signify one who does whatever the preceding syllables imply. I see this all the time in this forum, however, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 9:07 AM Subject: Re: How to install hobbiest CD? > You have to know what the VMS name of this disk you are going to > install, but once you do type: > $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY [source]:VMS072.B/SAVE_SET [dest]: > Obviously your source and destination have to be the source device and > the destination device respectively. On the 3100 I believe they will be > DKxn00: (where x is A or B) and n is th e SCSI id. > > Then boot from your destination device and follow the prompts. > > --Chuck > > Neil Cherry wrote: > > > I've managed to boot the 3100 with the Hobbiest CD and now it sits at a > > '$' prompt. Does anyone have the instructions for install the CD? I had > > them but can not find them now. Any pointers (links) would be appreciated. > > > > Also what/where is the '$' prompt? It doesn't take show commands so I'm > > guessing I'm stuck in between something. > > > > Thanks > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 5 10:25:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: <00f401c0772a$de05aea0$faea0191@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Jan 05, 2001 10:19:15 AM Message-ID: <200101051625.IAA00530@shell1.aracnet.com> > DO NOT Open "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!" It has = > the W95.Hybris.Gen.dr virus. Gee, didn't bother my Mac at all :^) Doubt it would bother the UNIX box I'm reading mail from now :^) Zane From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jan 5 10:53:45 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Actual users of paper tape Message-ID: I have actually worked for three companies where paper tape was actually used every day. The nice thing about paper tape is that you can visually inspect the output and know what was on it. There were commonly two ways to store it, fan folded or rolled. 1. 1974 when I worked in a microbiology lab the SMAC Automated chemistry analyzers produced paper tape that contained the results from the blood chemistry results. The paper tape was then fed into a IBM 360/50 where the lab reports were generated. The reports compared the individual patients results to the predicted normal ranges. The real experts could patch/splice paper tape to correct a result or for a repeat. They didn't run the IBM 360/50 at night while the lab samples were processed. Each analyzer had its own ASR-33. 2. 1975 graduate school, where the PDP 8's were booted by toggling in through the front panel the bootstrap loader and then the actual OS was loaded via paper tape read on an Teletype ASR-33. 3. 1978 McDonnell-Douglas where the programs loaded into individual missiles were punched onto Mylar paper tape and a copy stored in a vault for positive verification of the program that was loaded. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From rivie at teraglobal.com Fri Jan 5 11:18:42 2001 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Actual users of paper tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I have actually worked for three companies where paper tape was actually >used every day. The nice thing about paper tape is that you can visually >inspect the output and know what was on it. There were commonly two ways to >store it, fan folded or rolled. A company I used to work for created paper tapes to run semiautomatic wirewrap machines for building circuit boards. They had modified a DEC paper tape punch to be driven from a Digilog CP/M machine. Some time later, the company acquired a semiautomatic wirewrap machine of its own. We then used the tapes we created. After a while, they modified a PC to emulate the paper tape reader; we still generated the paper tape files, but instead of punching paper tapes we stashed the files on the Novell server and pointed the PC at them. The semiautomatic wirerap machine still moved the paper tape reels, but the data coming in from the reader head was supplied by the PC instead of by the paper tape. >3. 1978 McDonnell-Douglas where the programs loaded into individual >missiles were punched onto Mylar paper tape and a copy stored in a vault for >positive verification of the program that was loaded. In the late '80s I wrote an RT-11 device driver for a mylar tape reader for the A7 guys in China Lake. The previous software they were using had hardcoded paper tape input routines. Our new software generalized the mylar tape loading into file operations, so it was now possible to store files on disk and load them into the A7 mission computer. The RT-11 device driver allowed us to still use the actual mylar tapes. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From rdd at smart.net Fri Jan 5 12:19:34 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? In-Reply-To: <002301c07733$164c23e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I know this is a minor point ... but ... isn't that word supposed to be > spelled HOBBYIST? Being a foreigner I'm sensitive to differences in [...] > imply. I see this all the time in this forum, however, so please correct me > if I'm wrong. No correction---of you, that is---is necessary; the correct spelling is indeed as you mentioned, hobbyist, unless something's been changed that I'm unaware of. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From harrison at timharrison.com Fri Jan 5 13:14:23 2001 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus References: <200101051625.IAA00530@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A561D0F.BF3D0E59@timharrison.com> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Gee, didn't bother my Mac at all :^) Doubt it would bother the UNIX box I'm > reading mail from now :^) I can verify that my Linux box survived the onslaught of evil. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 5 13:20:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jan 5, 1 10:49:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 748 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010105/29f850f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 5 13:17:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jan 5, 1 11:59:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2083 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010105/c1bed371/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Jan 5 14:15:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: List spammer tracked down In-Reply-To: Bruce Lane "List spammer tracked down" (Jan 5, 7:34) References: <3.0.5.32.20010105073425.0097dd40@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <10101052015.ZM27342@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 5, 7:34, Bruce Lane wrote: > All listmembers: It should be obvious that you do NOT, under ANY > conditions, want to execute the file that got spammed to the list. It doesn't run too well under IRIX, anyway ;-) > I've tracked the spammer [...] > The spam is already on its way to them with > a request to crater the account responsible. > > You're welcome. ;-) Thank you! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 5 14:14:16 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Actual users of paper tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >3. 1978 McDonnell-Douglas where the programs loaded into individual When I left Kaiser Steel, Fontana CA in 1984 they still had a HP1000 running off paper tape to manage the truck weigh station. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Jan 5 14:25:11 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Actual users of paper tape References: Message-ID: <3A562D97.33C58AEB@eoni.com> BTDT... pdp-8 on a 'computer-assisted' Bendix coordinate measuring machine (CMM). All the measuring programs were written to paper tape using an ITT teletype. Later on a pdp 11/24 on a 'computer-controlled' Bendix HA-5 CMM. Software distribution from DEC was on a packing case full of paper tape. (System also had a whopping 128k of mag-core memory.) Boot through the front panel. Used to 'proof' the tooling (N/C tapes (mylar)) for the Tomahawk Cruise Missile. Interesting time to be working in aerospace! We were developing the machining centers to build the product. (5 axis internal boring mills, n/c lathes, and so on.) Company is now a vacant lot. Jim From louiss at gate.net Fri Jan 5 15:45:26 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: <200101051625.IAA00530@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200101052145.QAA74518@shuswap.gate.net> On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:25:24 -0800 (PST), healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >> DO NOT Open "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!" It has = >> the W95.Hybris.Gen.dr virus. > >Gee, didn't bother my Mac at all :^) Doubt it would bother the UNIX box I'm >reading mail from now :^) > I haven't ever had a virus on my PC, which has been up (with upgrades) since 1994. Of course, I am running OS/2. Really, people should be careful about falling out of Windows :-). Louis From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Jan 5 15:45:57 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: List spammer tracked down Message-ID: <89.b76a69.27879a95@aol.com> In a message dated 1/5/01 3:22:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: > On Jan 5, 7:34, Bruce Lane wrote: > > All listmembers: It should be obvious that you do NOT, under ANY > > conditions, want to execute the file that got spammed to the list. > > It doesn't run too well under IRIX, anyway ;-) Or Linux, or BSD, or SCO, or HPUX or Ultrix either :-) From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Jan 5 16:36:42 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed - 3179 Message-ID: <9b.f20d663.2787a67a@aol.com> The 3179-2 is a color terminal. The 25 pin connector goes to the base which has all of the electronics. I do not think it is usable with anything else but Ibm minis & mainframes. Paxton From aclark at envirolink.org Fri Jan 5 17:13:46 2001 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:02 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: <200101052145.QAA74518@shuswap.gate.net> References: <200101051625.IAA00530@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010105180316.0257c7e0@manatee.envirolink.org> These viruses shouldn't be a problem for Windows users either. For various job-related reasons, I have been using Windows for email for 5 years now. I have never had a single successful infection. Any decent virus scanner, kept updated, will keep you protected. The real threat now is trojans that can install themselves disguised as a legitimate zip, mov, avi, mpg, etc file. You click, it downloads & installs, game over. Fdisk & reinstall Windows. I just went through that. Trojan Defence Suite does a great job of monitoring potential trojan installations. See http://www.diamondcs.com.au Arthur Clark At 04:45 PM 1/5/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:25:24 -0800 (PST), >healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > >> DO NOT Open "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!" It has = > >> the W95.Hybris.Gen.dr virus. > > > >Gee, didn't bother my Mac at all :^) Doubt it would bother the UNIX box I'm > >reading mail from now :^) > > >I haven't ever had a virus on my PC, which has been up >(with upgrades) since 1994. Of course, I am running OS/2. > >Really, people should be careful about falling out of >Windows :-). > >Louis From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 5 17:49:16 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <004401c07773$10ee7020$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >> FWIW, I think all of the Altair disk subsystems were spawned after Percom >> bought MITS. IIRC, ICOM made a third-party disk subsystem for the Altair, Nope! the first 8" floppy system was all MITS, the later ICOM/PERCOM stuff was better if only because it was later. Allison From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 5 18:47:02 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Actual users of paper tape In-Reply-To: <3A562D97.33C58AEB@eoni.com> Message-ID: Check out http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/BehindTheScenes. You'll see a Conductron-Missouri 727 flight simulator that still uses mylar tape to load scene data into the Varian powered video system. :) g. From elecdata at kcinter.net Fri Jan 5 17:58:22 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Yet another virus References: <200101052145.QAA74518@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <3A565F9D.FF210EB9@kcinter.net> Gentlemen look at the full headers of the email that has the virus and you will see that the virus to this list is on the server. I just verified this with my ISP. Bill Louis Schulman wrote: > On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:25:24 -0800 (PST), > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > >> DO NOT Open "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!" It has = > >> the W95.Hybris.Gen.dr virus. > > > >Gee, didn't bother my Mac at all :^) Doubt it would bother the UNIX box I'm > >reading mail from now :^) > > > I haven't ever had a virus on my PC, which has been up > (with upgrades) since 1994. Of course, I am running OS/2. > > Really, people should be careful about falling out of > Windows :-). > > Louis From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 5 18:07:39 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <004d01c07775$2dbd17e0$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: Rob Kapteyn >The historically interesting thing about the ALTAIR has how insanely >primitive it was when it became the >sensation that sparked the PC revolution. It was actually more advanced than it's immediate predecessor and many times cheaper than commercial systems based on microprocessors. >Putting a disk on an ALTAIR is kind of cool, but it misses the point of how >primitive they really were. Not really, disks were the expensive peripheral but the design neither negated nor favored their presence. >Yes, parallel logic is much more consistent with the Altair era. >My keyboard is 8-bit parallel, my paper tape reader is 8-bit parallel. Not really, people use parallel AND serial as available. >The only common serial devices were Teletype machines (because of their >evolution from the telegraph). >Teletypes were the most common "terminal" in use back then. Not really save for they could be gotten cheaper. the microcomputer revolution was not about capability, it was about cost! In spring of 1975, H1000 terminal, ADM1, VT05 to name a few could be found. My favorite was SWTP CT1024 board modded for 64Char by 16 lines and lowercase. >Do you even know what paper tape is ? >I think that every ALTAIR had to deal with paper tape at some point. >Magnetic media were too unreliable. Irrelevent. I had reliable magtape by the summer of 1975. >I have a cute little optical paper tape reader that has a row of 9 LEDs and >a corresponding row of photodiodes. >It sends data as eight bits in parallel. Yep, did that too. >To load BASIC, you entered a tiny loader program through the front panel >switches. Rom was expensive and EPROM even more so but by summer of '75 people were using it to get away from the costly and often flakey front pannel. >This program just looked for the tape reader's clock bit, delayed a little, >then read the rest of the byte and stored it in memory. >When you loaded Bill Gate's BASIC, the first data loaded was a more robust >checksum loader. Same as the magtape version. >By the way, in the beginning, ALTAIR BASIC WAS the "Operating System". >Through PEEKs and POKEs executed from your BASIC programs, you could >control all of your hardware. MITS Programming Package I/II gave you editor, assembler, debugger. >I also have a "VDM-1" video display card. We converted an old TV work >with this. Have that too, used a commercial video monitor (used). >After BASIC was loaded, we add a "patch" for this through the front panel >switches. PT supplied it. >That was another interesting thing about the ALTAIR, you could always take >control of your computer through the front panel switches. >There was no "reset" button to hit when your system crashed, your just went >in and looked at what happened. Yes there was! the procedure was STOP, RESET, RUN. >Usually, you went to location 0 and hit "run" to get out of a crash. Like I said... >A "nasty" crash was when an loop overwrote your memory. >This happened fairly often too. Usually due to processor mistiming ro plain old noise. >It was always kind of interesting to look at the patterns that appeared in >the memory when these crashes occurred. Caused by the execution of repeated FFh (RST 7). >I have always thought that if I wanted to be able to easily "boot" my >ALTAIR to show it off, I would construct >a box that would let me load and save my programs to a modern PC through >this parallel port. A PROM worked killer in 1975. >I hate to think that as an "original" Altair owner, I am, myself, a museum >piece :-) >I am only 39 years old. Really kid... I was 22 when I built the first one. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 5 18:23:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <009301c07777$4e5dd640$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher > >As I've often heard, Altair had the reputation that nothing they ever >shipped worked as shipped, often either requiring one pay for a service of >modifying it at the plant before it was shipped, or to fix it or have it >fixed once it had arrived. From a historical perspective, an Altair that >actually works is an anomaly. That explains why they're all different. Not quite. the 8800B was a solid machine and worked well. The early 8800s were flakey but they did run. The most common problems were they tended to crash for apparently no reason and moving the boards on the bus affected this. Their problems were obvious if you think on it. CPU clock was 2mhz crystal TTL gate OSC driving oneshots for the non overlaping two pahse clock... Poor. The bus and frontpannel if assembled "by the book {reads phamplet}" were interconnected by 18" wires! Can you say ringgggggg. The bus (original 4 slotters) were made singel sided with light ground and a but too thin material! The transformer was too light and slighly undervoltage. Filter caps and rectifiers were too small for the load beyond minimum. The 8800A version fixed the most obvious (listed) and many more subtle problems. The key thing was compared to the more robust IMSAI, NS* and later machines it was flimsy and it's reliability was poor. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 5 18:13:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Altair Owners ... Message-ID: <009201c07777$4a4eb6a0$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >So ... you're of the opinion that Altair computers shouldn't have a disk? >MITS built them with a disk, didin't they? I can't imagine how the Yes they did! The floppy was two boards as a controller. >My recollection was that the original Altair had no I/O devices at all. To Incorrect. Mine arrive in january 1975 with MITS 88-PIO and MITS 88-ACR (audio casette via modded modem board and SIO card pair!) and by summer I had the 2SIO board. Still ahve and use the SIOs and one of the programmers is based on the PIO. >me that didn't suggest it was complete without them, but it did suggest it >was a work in progress when it appeared on the mag cover in '75 or whenever. >It's going to take a couple of days for me to get my head around the concept >you seem to project. Almost true. that cover was shot in September to make the Pop'Tronics schedule, by December it was reality. >I have always thought it was a mistake to refer a computer with >non-MITS-original hardware as an Altair. I kind-of see folks calling it a >FORD if it says FORD on it, even if the engine is from a Chrysler and the >transmission is from a DeSoto. It's a ford of the body and chassis is ford. Most Altairs were MITS box, CPU and some amount or ram and IO but rarely pure. Allison From kees.stravers at iae.nl Fri Jan 5 19:18:40 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Yet another virus Message-ID: <20010106011840.65B4120F22@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-01-05 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >Another reason I still like using Pine under a Unix shell account to >read my ASCII mail. VT100 emulation. The data stream *is* the >content. Hardware requirements: VT-100 terminal, a modem that can >dial a POTS line, and the aformentioned line itself. Nothing more. >Classic Bliss. How about Nettamer? A wonderful all-in-one DOS program to read mail and news, do ftp and a little bit of web surfing. Built in PPP, no external drivers needed. Any attachment just stays in the body of the message and is easily decoded or deleted. Works on any old PC with a modem, very safe. www.nettamer.net As a rule I delete any received binary file that I was not told about beforehand by a trusted source. God knows what garbage might have been in all those animated christmas cards. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jan 5 19:18:05 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Dilog 706 and 703 controllers References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010104195443.02de41b0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A56724D.A4A12682@idirect.com> >Chuck McManis wrote: > Does anyone have handy the jumper changes to make a Dilog DQ706 and DQ703 > the *second* MSCP and TMSCP controllers respectively? Jerome Fine replies: I finally dug out my notes - I can't seem to find my manual, but I will keep looking. To set the CSR, you must know the old CSR. On a PDP-11 in hardware ODT mode, type (assuming the CSR is 172150): @17772150/ 000000 @17772152/ 005400 77777 @2000G * FT (gets you to the diagnostics) The menu should take you from there. If you need more help, please ask and I will look for the manual again. Are you using a uVAX II? If so, I will try to find the manual. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Jan 5 19:22:08 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? In-Reply-To: <3A55C3DA.C35993E@home.net> Message-ID: <20010106012445.GVCD17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> After booting from cd, you have to move the VMS image to your hard disk. At the prompt: BACKUP/IMAGE /DKA400:VMS072.B/SAVE DKA200: Substitute your drive numbers for mine. For instance, if your cdrom drive is id3 then make the source drive DKA300 This also assumes you've got the same version cd as I do (from Montagar). Regards, Jeff In <3A55C3DA.C35993E@home.net>, on 01/05/01 at 08:22 PM, Neil Cherry said: >I've managed to boot the 3100 with the Hobbiest CD and now it sits at a >'$' prompt. Does anyone have the instructions for install the CD? I had >them but can not find them now. Any pointers (links) would be >appreciated. >Also what/where is the '$' prompt? It doesn't take show commands so I'm >guessing I'm stuck in between something. >Thanks -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Jan 5 19:25:56 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: <200101052145.QAA74518@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <20010106012837.GYCP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> >I haven't ever had a virus on my PC, which has been up >(with upgrades) since 1994. Of course, I am running OS/2. >Really, people should be careful about falling out of >Windows :-). >Louis Cool! I've been running os/2 since 2.11. I recently bought EcomStation which is the newest Warp client. You might already have it, but you can buy an upgrade from Merlin from Indelible Blue. I've never gotten a virus either. As far as I know there aren't any for OS/2. Of course, DOS and Win32s viri run perfectly.... ;-) With ODIN you might be able to run 9x/NT viri alongside WORD. TTYL Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ncherry at home.net Sat Jan 6 00:08:29 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? References: Message-ID: <3A56B65D.DD6E3351@home.net> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I know this is a minor point ... but ... isn't that word supposed to be > > spelled HOBBYIST? Being a foreigner I'm sensitive to differences in > [...] > > imply. I see this all the time in this forum, however, so please correct me > > if I'm wrong. > > No correction---of you, that is---is necessary; the correct spelling > is indeed as you mentioned, hobbyist, unless something's been changed > that I'm unaware of. I plead guilty of the spelling mistake, I did rush it out this morning but I would have made the same spelling mistake. I'm afraid that I learned to spell by rogue ;-) memory. And as a student I did not particularly like english (we used milk cartons to learn sentence structure). I still have trouble remembering the spellings and some english rules. One of my co-workers learned to spell phonetically and is quite good at spelling and can pronounce anyone's name (including those foreign to the US). Of course I now can program in at least a dozen different languages from assembler to various high level languages. Makes me wonder why I can't learn other languages. Anyone have any good links to English grammar rules? I'll also try to use my spell checker more often. PS: Thanks for all the info on installing the CD, I will attempt to install it tomorrow. I have my disk dka500 and the CD on DKB300. I'm still wondering where I am at the '$' prompt. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From RebusInk at netscape.net Sat Jan 6 00:17:16 2001 From: RebusInk at netscape.net (Hurt McDermott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <4BF4786C.149FB7E6.007FE0BF@netscape.net> While trying to to put a new hard drive into my SCSI chain, I couldn't get an old hard drive to show up any more, so I shut off the system and tried to make sure that the SCSI was in. When I turned the system back on, the monitor turned on; but the operating system did not kick in. No welcome message or anything. This was true even when I tried to start up from a system disk? Any ideas what's happening? Or what I can do to fix it? Thanks, I appreciate it. -- --Hurt McDermott 312 951 0259 __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sat Jan 6 00:38:34 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed - 3179 In-Reply-To: <9b.f20d663.2787a67a@aol.com> Message-ID: Isn't the 3179 a twinaxial terminal? I'm pretty sure you can tie them to as/400. System 3/x and possibly others. I may be thinking this out backwards and may be thinking of a 3197 instead of a 3179 but it sur erings a bell even after a 14 hour shift of repairing Handspring handheld PDAs. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Innfogra@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 4:37 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Monitor help needed - 3179 The 3179-2 is a color terminal. The 25 pin connector goes to the base which has all of the electronics. I do not think it is usable with anything else but Ibm minis & mainframes. Paxton From mrp at narmada.net.in Sat Jan 6 01:29:04 2001 From: mrp at narmada.net.in (M R Pandya) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Important Message-ID: <006f01c077b2$a3c2a3a0$060112ac@bhsys106> Hello Some virus has automatically send msg to all IDs in my outlook adress book. The attached file will be having .TXT.pif extension. Please do not open that file otherwise it will infect yr PC. SORRY M R Pandya -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010106/5c1dcf35/attachment.html From geoff at pkworks.com Sat Jan 6 10:12:59 2001 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Needed: Straight 8 Skins Message-ID: <005101c077fb$8d053800$a9a57ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> I have a friend who has a Straight 8 (lucky sonnovagun!) for which he is in need, to quote him: "I am currently willing to trade, and in desperate need of: Cradle and module covers for a Straight-8 OR mechanical blueprints for same to convert formerly rack-mounted model to a desktop machine." Does anybody have the items themselves, or a set of prints for them, or be willing to take measurements from what they do have sufficient to allow my correspondent to fabricate replacements? From ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP at cmh.edu Sat Jan 6 10:02:23 2001 From: ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP at cmh.edu (ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Antigen found W32/Hybris-B virus Message-ID: <6AE7FB95CB8ED411994000D0B782DD8525B0C3@exchange1.cmh.edu> Antigen for Exchange found dwarf4you.exe infected with W32/Hybris-B virus. The file is currently Deleted. The message, "classiccmp-digest V1 #477", was sent from owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org (classiccmp-digest) and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound located at CMHMAIL/CMHMAIL/EXCHANGE-SMTP. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Sat Jan 6 11:18:34 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: HP9111A digitizer pad Message-ID: On my way to pick up from the local computer surplus a HP9111A digitizer pad. It looks kind of neat and has been setting there with no takers. HPIB interface I think. I don't want to see it go to China as scrap. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Jan 6 11:28:18 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Tektronix Terminal 4012 Message-ID: <200101061728.MAA21801@drs-esg.com> >From: Owen Cameron >the screen brightens - with a fuzzy circle in the center... >eventually he whole screen is bright. Nothing I've ever done yet has >affected this. > I have a 4010 (still need hard copy unit). This is normal behavior before you hit the page key to erase the screen. It sounds like you will need to do some fixing. The screens on these things weren't very durable, you shouldn't leave it on too long if you can't clear the screen. If you do get it working it it also best to not leave displays up too long. The unit will dim the screen after a few minutes but clearing is still best. Mine has a note stuck to it warning about this (and a sticker inside saying when the tube was replaced). If you have the skill to troubleshoot the maintenance manuals are probably available for around $25. I have gotten Tek stuff from Dean K Kidd, W7TYR 27270 SW Ladd Hill Rd Sherwood, OR 97140 tel 503-625-7363 dektyr@teleport.com Also http://www.manualsplus.com/ http://www.manualmerchant.com/ >Yup, there is a [Local|Line] toggle on teh front, next to a power light >which doesn't appear to work, two LED's I've never seen light up, and three > Mine had the same problem with the power light not lighting, I can't remember anymore if page worked. A capacitor had shorted and blew a fuze in the power supply. In the end I had to replace several chips in mine and the shorted capacitor. >I took a few webcam shots of the thing powering up a few days back, if >anyone is curious on the look... they're at: >http://www.net.house.cx/~nemo/visible/tempt/tek4012/ > Looks similar to my 4010 but the boards don't look identical. If it will help I can give you a summary from the manual for my unit on how the clear works. Theory should be similar for yours but were signals go may not be. From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Jan 6 12:15:07 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Monitor help needed - 3179 Message-ID: <26.f869301.2788baab@aol.com> In a message dated 1/5/01 10:43:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, russ@rbcs.8m.com writes: > All the 3179s I havde ever seen are coax not twinal but Coas. I bvelieve it is the 3197 that is Twinax. Paxton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010106/29411389/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 6 12:35:19 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: SCSI answer In-Reply-To: <4BF4786C.149FB7E6.007FE0BF@netscape.net> Message-ID: >While trying to to put a new hard drive into my SCSI chain, I Was this on a Vax or IBM 360? If it was on a mac, change the Pram battery, and/or press the cuda. From frederik at freddym.org Sat Jan 6 13:57:31 2001 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Yet another virus In-Reply-To: <3A565F9D.FF210EB9@kcinter.net> Message-ID: Hi there, I think the meaning of this Mailing list is not to discuss about virus (yes, the plural of virus is virus, not viri, virii or viruses (I just had a look into the dictionary)). So let's get back to old computers :-) Best Regards, Freddy -- Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOS, Linux From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Jan 6 14:50:38 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Yet another virus References: Message-ID: <3A57851E.25B62608@tinyworld.co.uk> Frederik Meerwaldt wrote: > > I think the meaning of this Mailing list is not to discuss about > virus (yes, the plural of virus is virus, not viri, virii or viruses > (I just had a look into the dictionary)). It isn't the purpose of the list to discuss spelling, either, but Collins English Dictionary says the plural of virus is viruses. > Freddy > Geek Code 3.1: Spelling--- From mburnet at bigpond.net.au Sat Jan 6 17:12:49 2001 From: mburnet at bigpond.net.au (Max Burnet) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins Message-ID: <00fe01c07836$36755480$a5b98490@burnetmax.nsw.bigpond.net.au> Geoff, There is an overall diagram of the skins on page 1-12 of the PDP-8 Maintenance Manual. There are 3 pages of dimensional diagrams to the nearest eighth of a inch in Chapter 6, Installation Planning, of the PDP-8 user handbook. I will snailmail a copy to you. I doubt whether they are good enough to use for "manufacture" tho. The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. I have a desktop classic 8 (Sydney Aust, not much use!) and can take digital pics and send if that would help? If any of your readers wish, I can also offer a large wall poster of the classic PDP-8 and its teletype that I made some years ago. Cheers Max Max Burnet B A C K Burnet Antique Computer Knowhow Pty Ltd Mail PO Box 847 Pennant Hills NSW 2120 Phone +61 2 9484 6772 Mobile 0412 124 006 Email mburnet@bigpond.net.au Web www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/a102.htm From west at tseinc.com Sat Jan 6 17:27:49 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: bruker system available in st. louis Message-ID: <001301c07838$49d0db60$628653d1@fozzie> I had posted a while back about a store in St. Louis that had a "bruker" system. Several people expressed interest in more information about it. Due to that interest, I took a picture of that system today. It was a picture through the window, so it's a really crummy pic, but it'll give you the idea. It sure looks like this system is a cpu, not a disk tester, but I really don't have a clue. As I said, the case and construction appears vaguely similar to the NIC-80. The url is users.tseinc.com/~jlwest/bruker.jpg See me previous email to the list as to what all the buttons and lights are. If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll ask the store owner what he wants for it - it's unlabled still price-wise. I'd be happy to arrange shipping for whoever wants it. Jay West From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 6 19:34:49 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: HP9111A digitizer pad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010106203449.35e7f386@mailhost.intellistar.net> Mike, Yes, it's HP-IB. You can talk to it with any computer that does HP-IB. I have a manual here for it soemwhere. Joe At 11:18 AM 1/6/01 -0600, you wrote: >On my way to pick up from the local computer surplus a HP9111A digitizer >pad. It looks kind of neat and has been setting there with no takers. HPIB >interface I think. I don't want to see it go to China as scrap. >Mike >mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 6 19:55:27 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? References: Message-ID: <000201c0784d$5ca7ce50$0100a8c0@jack> r u going to bid on tha flatpanel? fred | From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Jan 6 19:50:29 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: RD-51's Message-ID: <20010106.200919.-3934697.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Hi Gang-- Anybody want some rd-51's? They're the real McCoys, blessed and badged by DEC. They even come with sleds. $1 plus shipping. I'll even test 'em to make sure they work. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jan 7 00:41:08 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Yet another VAX has landed Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010106222814.00a9dc50@208.226.86.10> This is pretty cool, I have now got a BA212 based VAX for the House of VAX! I just picked up a VAX 4000/200 in a BA212 chassis and it is the first one I've ever seen outside of the MicroVAX "technical handbook"! Fortunately it came with all the parts (only some minor disassembly that was easily corrected). Unfortunately it did not come with the rack "drawer" that mounts it into a 19" rack. This will have to be corrected. Hopefully its presence will attract the necessary parts :-) For those who don't know what it is, the DEC BA212 chassis is a "low profile" rack mount chassis for a DEC Q-bus based VAX system. There is a similar chassis called the BA213 which sits vertically consumes 27" of rack real estate, and has drives in the top half and cards in the bottom half. The BA212 leaves the drives in the "front" but _behind_ the drives is lays a Q-bus backplane down horizontally "into" the rack taking up only 14" of space. This is why you need the drawer sides because to get at the cards you have to slide it way out of the rack! Anyway, I've got the 4000/200 front bezel for it (the version of the technical handbook I have doesn't mention the 4000/200 in this chassis because I believe it was introduced later) One of the neat features I discovered is that it has a couple of "feet" on the front that props up the front of the chassis if you have it out of a rack so that air can flow through it. Just really neat. I'll try to get some pictures of it and put it up on my VAX pages. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Jan 7 00:49:09 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Custom board any cluse? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010106224111.00aa1d90@208.226.86.10> Ok all you ex-aerospace contractor types out there, here is a challenge for you. My new VAX came from an Aerospace contractor and had a Q-bus board in it from "K Systems Inc" (the parent company of Kaiser's gov't contractor business. according to Hoovers.com) The board is dual width Q-bus marked "K Systems" "AITG" "Rev C" On board it has a Z80B, Z80BPIO, AM9513 (floating point?) MK6116 (2K RAM), 2764 EPROM marked 35112A0B (c) 1993 KSI, and a part marked MK4501N-12 (what ever that is). Then it has a bunch of analog circuitry, four rotatable switches (set to 0,0,0,0), 7 thinline coaxial connectors, an LED, a 20 pin (10 x 2) connector, standard Q-bus decode logic with what looks like a bunch of dip switches to set the CSR and what looks like a temperature compenstated and potted crystal oscillator. I'm guessing its some sort of time base generator. I'm sure 'sho dev' won't know what the heck it is ! :-) --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 7 01:45:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Custom board any cluse? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010106224111.00aa1d90@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <000e01c0787d$d1eba3a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The AM9513 is a counter/timer, and the FP units are the 9511 and 9512. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 11:49 PM Subject: Custom board any cluse? > Ok all you ex-aerospace contractor types out there, here is a challenge for > you. > > My new VAX came from an Aerospace contractor and had a Q-bus board in it > from "K Systems Inc" (the parent company of Kaiser's gov't contractor > business. according to Hoovers.com) > > The board is dual width Q-bus marked "K Systems" "AITG" "Rev C" > On board it has a Z80B, Z80BPIO, AM9513 (floating point?) MK6116 (2K RAM), > 2764 EPROM marked 35112A0B (c) 1993 KSI, and a part marked MK4501N-12 (what > ever that is). Then it has a bunch of analog circuitry, four rotatable > switches (set to 0,0,0,0), 7 thinline coaxial connectors, an LED, a 20 pin > (10 x 2) connector, standard Q-bus decode logic with what looks like a > bunch of dip switches to set the CSR and what looks like a temperature > compenstated and potted crystal oscillator. > > I'm guessing its some sort of time base generator. I'm sure 'sho dev' won't > know what the heck it is ! :-) > > --Chuck > > From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 7 11:30:51 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins In-Reply-To: <00fe01c07836$36755480$a5b98490@burnetmax.nsw.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: > The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight > forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain > laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are > held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. > > The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to > them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green > plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium > strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has > multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. Geoff, if your freind does fabricate new covers for the PDP-8, please tell him to mark it as a reproduction in a permanent, but un-obvious way. For example, just a simple note like "REPLICA COVERS: 20 JUN 2001" etched on each cover, inside, in the corner, in very small letters. This will prevent some jerk in the distant future trying to sell it as a prototype, or just paint a clearer picture of the provenance of the machine long after it has changed hands a few times. Being an important machine (PDP-8), it will always be valued highly and may greatly outlive its current owner. Quite a few years ago, some guys started making replica Audions and other very early tubes/valves. Some of them are marked, but many are not, and at least a few people I know have been burned. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From geoff at pkworks.com Sun Jan 7 11:57:04 2001 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins Message-ID: <000e01c078d3$41cc1420$1aa17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Not to worry William, my correspondent is an honorable man, and I know that any reproduction work would be properly documented and marked. The real trick is finding the proper information so that the repro work can be done. I am fascinated to hear of replica Audions. Given the amount of work to make them, and make them well enough to fool people into spending big bucks, the forger had to do one heckovalotta work. If you're gonna steal from people because you're too lazy to work for a living, why make it that hard on yourself? Do something easier and more lucrative, like smuggling narcotic babyfood or something. -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli To: comp-hist@shrimp.osfn.org Cc: Geoffrey G. Rochat ; comp-hist@shrimp.osfn.org ; COMP-HIST@cca.org ; rcs-l@shrimp.osfn.org ; djg@drs-esg.com ; aek@spies.com ; bsupnik@us.inter.net ; mbg@world.std.com ; bitsavers@spies.com ; classiccmp@classiccmp.org ; mac@Wireless.Com ; nabil@teleport.com ; jones@cs.uiowa.edu Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 Skins >> The two side panels on the power supply would be relatively straight >> forward. They are rectangular, wood which could be covered with a woodgrain >> laminate, and aluminium edging. Little hooks on the back ensure they are >> held firmly to the classic PDP-8 chassis. >> >> The plastic doors would be much harder to make IMHO. We always refered to >> them as plexiglass doors. They are a single piece of transparent green >> plastic, with an opaque plastic top, plastic edging at bottom and aluminium >> strips at the front. I think it is all glued together. The plastic top has >> multiple, long slots cut in it for airflow. > >Geoff, if your freind does fabricate new covers for the PDP-8, please >tell him to mark it as a reproduction in a permanent, but un-obvious way. >For example, just a simple note like "REPLICA COVERS: 20 JUN 2001" etched >on each cover, inside, in the corner, in very small letters. This will >prevent some jerk in the distant future trying to sell it as a prototype, >or just paint a clearer picture of the provenance of the machine long >after it has changed hands a few times. Being an important machine >(PDP-8), it will always be valued highly and may greatly outlive its >current owner. > >Quite a few years ago, some guys started making replica Audions and other >very early tubes/valves. Some of them are marked, but many are not, and >at least a few people I know have been burned. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 7 12:04:05 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: RD-51's Message-ID: <001e01c078d4$3c217780$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: jeff.kaneko@juno.com > >Anybody want some rd-51's? They're the real >McCoys, blessed and badged by DEC. They even >come with sleds. 10mb for those that don't know. Also the sleds are handy for those needed to mount a drive in many of the DEC cases. Allison From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Jan 7 11:58:54 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins In-Reply-To: <000e01c078d3$41cc1420$1aa17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: > I am fascinated to hear of replica Audions. Given the amount of work to > make them, and make them well enough to fool people into spending big > bucks, the forger had to do one heckovalotta work. If you're gonna > steal from people because you're too lazy to work for a living, why make > it that hard on yourself? Do something easier and more lucrative, like > smuggling narcotic babyfood or something. The unmarked copies were likely made with no malice, just as a way to get more Audions for those that need them for displays, or for even operating some of the old equipment. But, as we see, the decision to not mark them has bitten some folks in the butt. Luckily, I don't need any Audions. Or PDP-8 skins. Need a scope for the LINC-8, though. I wonder how hard it would be to fabricate one of those... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ncherry at home.net Sun Jan 7 12:20:23 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? References: Message-ID: <3A58B367.DBBD9845@home.net> I've discovered something a bit weird while loading OpenVMS on my 3100. It hangs when I try to backup from the 7.2 CD! It does a mount verification and never returns. I've even attempted the IPC method but that just dumps! I was able to load 6.1 but the license fails. May this be caused by the fact that I attempted to use the license from a MicroVAX II (different serial number)? Should I get a license for each machine (I have 3)? BTW I had to try all sorts of variations of backup before it would backup to the disk. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 7 12:27:10 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... Message-ID: While mulling over some ideas for software music synthesiser programs [I just bought a copy of Reaktor - a software synth/sampler construction kit of amazing complexity] I started wondering just how close to 'real' an emulator ought to be. For example, the MiniMoog emulator has a replica of the add-on A-400 oscillator, used to tune your Moog back up as it drifted off pitch, which they all did more or less constantly. The documentation mentions retaining this feature even though the emulation no longer drifts. But: why not? Shouldn't it drift, actually? So I ask from a "purist's purist" view... shouldn't an emulator contain "failure modes" common to the machine emulated? And if it "breaks", then the poor "operator" is afforded the opportunity to diagnose and then (hopefully) "fix" the problem. My experience with the various PDP-11 systems I owned was like this. I spent a *lot* of time doctoring the hardware. The same thought could be applied to a software Moog Modular synthesiser system. If a module 'breaks', you have to open up the code, find the 'defective' module and 'fix' it. One could continue this thought right down to having models of components, a la SPICE and the other design modelling software. Each component or module would then have a live/die algorithm associated with it. Imagine how thrilled Tony Duell would be with a PERQ emulator that exhibited random 'hardware' failure modes (based on maintenance histories) that then needed to be repaired at the 'component' level. Running, of couse, on a palmtop. Hopefully one could as well disable the "real-world hardware failure" mode, in the case of wanting to just do something trivial, like program the thing. Silly questions, but also maybe valid.... Cheerz John From jones at cs.uiowa.edu Sun Jan 7 12:43:25 2001 From: jones at cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins Message-ID: <200101071843.MAA13162@server.divms.uiowa.edu> One way to make sure the replicas are obviously replicas is to do them in the wrong color. Honeywell orange metalwork, for example, with blue tinted plexiglass instead of the grey that DEC used. Or, as suggested, just mark them somewhere. Doug Jones jones@cs.uiowa.edu From geoff at pkworks.com Sun Jan 7 14:14:20 2001 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins Message-ID: <002e01c078e6$6e7beb40$72a27ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Indeed. But the trick is not how to make 'em look fake so that no one will be confused. I'm quite certain that can be arranged with precious little effort. The trick is getting either real skins (thereby circumventing all issues) or mechanical drawings of same so that my correspondent can refurb his Straight 8. Specifically; "...Cradle and module covers for a Straight-8 OR mechanical blueprints for same to convert formerly rack-mounted model to a desktop machine." Can anyone help this fella out? So far, the best information received is a partial from Max Burnet (Thanks again, Max!) from Down Under; can anyone better his information? -----Original Message----- From: Douglas W. Jones To: aw288@osfn.org ; comp-hist@shrimp.osfn.org Cc: COMP-HIST@cca.org ; aek@spies.com ; bitsavers@spies.com ; bsupnik@us.inter.net ; classiccmp@classiccmp.org ; djg@drs-esg.com ; geoff@pkworks.com ; jones@cs.uiowa.edu ; mac@Wireless.Com ; mbg@WORLD.STD.COM ; nabil@teleport.com ; rcs-l@shrimp.osfn.org Date: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 Skins >One way to make sure the replicas are obviously replicas is to do them in >the wrong color. Honeywell orange metalwork, for example, with blue tinted >plexiglass instead of the grey that DEC used. Or, as suggested, just mark >them somewhere. > > Doug Jones > jones@cs.uiowa.edu > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 7 13:59:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jan 7, 1 01:27:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3951 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010107/caf4e471/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Jan 7 14:59:36 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Interesting Article in EE Times References: <001e01c078d4$3c217780$8a789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A58D8B8.69F2939A@rain.org> Interesting article at EE Times about gauging the impact of DVMs. Of course NLS is mentioned along with a few comments about how it was started and went into computers ... and went into bankruptcy. http://www.eetimes.com/anniversary/designclassics/gauging.html From jtinker at coin.org Sun Jan 7 16:03:06 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... References: Message-ID: <3A58E79A.7CFB5D7D@coin.org> > > But: why not? Shouldn't it drift, actually? > > Hmm... This is a difficult problem. I don't have any answers, but suspect it has something to do with why rough looking lettering became such a rage in advertising, immediately following the technical ability to make it look perfect. I sometimes think we're all geeks on this bus, delighted by the human capacity to handle complexity. But sometimes the satisfaction wanes. Einstein is reputed to have said "Everything should be as simple as possible, but not simpler." First we were amazed by the Moog, then we wanted sampling of real instruments. I've got a Roland D-20, which has as extraordinary ability to synthesize, but no samples. For some reason I perfer to play my old piano. And often, I just whistle. -- John Tinker From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 7 15:59:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Straight 8 Skins In-Reply-To: References: <00fe01c07836$36755480$a5b98490@burnetmax.nsw.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: >For example, just a simple note like "REPLICA COVERS: 20 JUN 2001" etched >on each cover, inside, in the corner, in very small letters. This will >prevent some jerk in the distant future trying to sell it as a prototype, Too obvious, jerks would just cover or remove something like that. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 7 17:09:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: <3A58E79A.7CFB5D7D@coin.org> References: Message-ID: >reason I perfer to play my old piano. And often, I just whistle. Me too, sometimes I wish I could get it to stop. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 18:00:31 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... Message-ID: To me, it really comes down to one major issue: Are you running an emualtor as a computer geek who likes to mess with antique stuff or are you running the emulator as a company whose software is dependent on this hardware, but finds it is no longer cost effect or perhaps even no longer possible to keep said hardware in operation... From the Ubergeek perspective, then yes, I'd think you want the emulator to be weird like the real hardware, though it could be good to have a less flaky version for those who are merely curious and have never experienced the real hardware... On the other hand, if you're depending on an emulator to flawlessly run your commercial apps, then you don't want it to ever crash, since a crashed emulator is lost time, which is lost money.. Note that this is only meant to paint a general picture... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 7 18:51:03 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Interesting Article in EE Times In-Reply-To: <3A58D8B8.69F2939A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Marvin wrote: > Interesting article at EE Times about gauging the impact of DVMs. Of course > NLS is mentioned along with a few comments about how it was started and went > into computers ... and went into bankruptcy. > > http://www.eetimes.com/anniversary/designclassics/gauging.html > Interesting article! It is true that NLS went into computers, but before Kaypro got into financial difficulties it had been split off as a public company and it is that company that went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy and was later put into Chapter 7 by the Court. NLS survives as a legal entity, by the way, totally owned by Andy Kay, I suspect. I do not know what they do, perhaps only a shell. Other parts of the article brought back old times, as I worked for Electro Instruments in the early sixties on mechanical design of an X-Y Plotter and knew both Norm Walker and Noel Braemer, who became the technical brains of Dana Instruments. Norm, in fact, invited me to join them, but moving to the LA area was not particularly appealing. - don From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun Jan 7 22:05:03 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... References: Message-ID: <006801c07928$2ee6bc20$0264640a@mediaone.net> ME TOO!!! I wish I could make that damn whistle stop so I could could go on with my life please some one make it stop, no more whistle please... To me the whistle just never stops and it doesn't require any extra effort on my part. Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 3:09 PM Subject: Re: "Real" emulation... > >reason I perfer to play my old piano. And often, I just whistle. > > Me too, sometimes I wish I could get it to stop. > > From eweidenh1 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 20:10:43 2001 From: eweidenh1 at hotmail.com (Erich Weidenhammer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: Annoying high pitched squeal Message-ID: I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high pitched sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It scares my cat. Thanks. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Jan 7 20:07:49 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:03 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010107175519.00c17ce0@pacbell.net> My Sol emulator has a couple hardware oddities incorporated in it. There are some other oddities but modelling them is too difficult for too little benefit, so they'll probably not get done. For instance, the first version of the emulator would convert each windows keystroke into an emulated "strobe" of a keystroke register. But then my first user noted a discrepancy in a program he tried. After thinking about it a little bit, we realized that the difference was because the real Sol generates an approximately 6 us strobe when a key is hit, asynchronously setting a "key ready" flop. If the processor polls this register, the flop gets cleared, but if it polls it before the 6 us strobe is finished, then reading it doesn't clear the flop since the async strobe has priority. Thus, one keystroke can appear twice in these circumstances. Solace now emulates this oddity. Eventually I'm going to add disk emulation to Solace (including Helios emulation and PT-DOS, if I can get sufficient help (I don't have one myself, so I need copies of the BOOTLOAD ROM, some disk controller docs, and a binary image of the OS, hint hint... Bob Stek sent me a listing of PT-DOS but it runs over 200 pages of fine text, and I think it won't OCR very well). One thing I'm planning on adding is intermittent disk errors -- the reason is that I want to eventually rewrite my CP/M BIOS and I would rather test it on the emulator. Without failure simulation, then too much of the BIOS would go untested. Now for an example of behavior I'm not going to bother with. The Sol keyboard has infinite key rollover. On my PC, either the keyboard or the driver stops giving KEYDOWN messages after about four keys are down. Perhaps there is some way to get that extra info, but I'm not going to bother. I don't see any reason to emulate that extra behavior, so it won't go in. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From BGarvey355 at aol.com Sun Jan 7 20:29:47 2001 From: BGarvey355 at aol.com (BGarvey355@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Annoying high pitched squeal Message-ID: In a message dated 1/7/2001 9:16:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eweidenh1@hotmail.com writes: > I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 > color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high pitched > sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It scares my cat. > Thanks. > It's usually a good sign that the monitor is about to die. You should here how an SC1224 sounds when the rear of the tube has been snapped off at the guns due to bad packaging and careless postal shipping and you unsuspectingly plug it in and power it up. Heeyyy, ya need some parts? ;-) BG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010107/35d49038/attachment.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Jan 7 21:02:04 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: NLS Test Gear Message-ID: Non Linear Systems has a special place in my checkered past. When I was 13, an old engineer/ham friend of mine gave me an ancient (even then it was old!) NLS 3-digit DC DVM. I was absolutely in heaven. He said " Here ya go, kid, her's a box o' rattlesnakes fer ya!" For those who care.. this DVM used an auto-nulling resistance bridge implemented mainly with 10-pole 40-throw stepping switches. The wiper arms had a ratchet wheel run by a pawl connected to a hefty electromagnet. The device had one stepper for each decade (and hence, digit) with precision resistors soldered to the the switch banks. Applying DC voltage to the imput unbalanced the bridge, and the switches began operating until the bridge nulled out. One set of contacts on each decade switch was connected to a bank of tiny 356-style flange-base lamps, which were mounted in staggered rows in an aluminum holder. the holder was slotted to carry 11 thin clear plexiglass or acrylic panels, about 1" by 1.5", upon which the digits were engraved. (one for a period) When the required lamp was lit, it shone down thru a hole in the carrier for that particular panel, illuminating it edge-on and making it stand out from the other realtively dark panels in the stack. The last digit was a zero and it was damned hard to see in a bright room. It had two rack-mount chassis, the switching part and the thinner display unit, connected by the obligatory multi-core cable and massive winchester connector. The switch box was entirely lined with thick felt inside, to try and reduce the racket. I, of course, ran the thing open most of the time. Any change in the input levels caused the entire system to start at '000' and then work up to a null... the last bits of a reading would slow and then it would stop with the result in the display window, and it did sound like a mechanical snake.. rr-rrr-rrrrrr---r-r-tictic-tic...tic. It was my first piece of 'real' test gear and I'm kinda sorry now that it's gone. snif. snif. O well. No thanks, I don't want to buy another. I live too far away for the shipping to make sense.. ;} Cheers John From ois140 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 21:30:21 2001 From: ois140 at hotmail.com (Jim Donoghue) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Real emulation Message-ID: So, I guess I'll have to add sound (and smell?) to my Wang minicomputer emulator to emulate the failure mode of the hard disk drive.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 7 21:50:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Real emulation References: Message-ID: <000701c07926$1f58b800$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The smell will be OK if you run about 2 watts through a half-watt 47-ohm resistor. That's what usually made the stink, if it wasn't the Clock driver for the DRAMs overheating the PCB. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Donoghue" To: Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Real emulation > So, I guess I'll have to add sound (and smell?) to my Wang minicomputer > emulator to emulate the failure mode of the hard disk drive.... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 7 23:19:27 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? Message-ID: I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is it just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the AT class computers? - don From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sun Jan 7 23:34:23 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: ; from donm@cts.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:19:27PM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20010107223423.M10847@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:19:27PM -0800, Don Maslin wrote: > I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such > thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is Yep, I remember seeing them back in the day, I think. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Free long distance at http://www.bigredwire.com/me/RefTrack?id=USA063420 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 7 23:35:00 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jan 07, 2001 09:19:27 PM Message-ID: <200101080535.WAA13693@calico.litterbox.com> Ok, there're three different sets of bits you're looking at. Original VGA was 640x480x16 or 320x200x256, the latter being 8 bit color. Modern accelerated video cards are essentially computers, the fastest having 128 bit internal busses. VGA cards did exist that plugged into 8 bit ISA slots (and indeed, 8 bit apple 2 slots) but they were fairly scarce, because as you said, they came out after 16 bit ISA. > > > I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such > thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is > it just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the > AT class computers? > - don > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 23:37:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such >thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is >it just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the >AT class computers? > - don The earliest VGA cards tended to be 8bit, or 8/16bit autosensing. Paradise was the main supplier, though Oak and Tseng Labs produced some as well. They generally had only 256k of RAM onboard and would do 16colors at 640 x 480. No acceleration either, as it was before Cirrus and the others started trying to speed up Windows screen draws using the graphics chipset. VGA actually had it's beginnings on the MCA bus with the PS/2 but was then adapted for the ISA bus by the 3rd party vendors. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Jan 7 23:46:17 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 Message-ID: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the K-B is proprietory however. Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ? Thanks larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Jan 7 23:46:17 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: O.T.: Compu-Voxx ?? Message-ID: <3A590DD9.32383.4742072@localhost> I have a box in a nice well padded soft-case called a Compu-Voxx. It was manufactured by Manutronics. It has a removable antenna. It appears to be some sort of transmitting device for sending messages. Based on the instructions on the face you record a message (to a chip I imagine) and then send if the selectable digital readout frequency is between 88.1 and 107.9. That sounds like the AM band to me. Could this be some sort of civil defense emergency device ? It has a 5-pin DIN plug for power which unfortunately didn't come with it which is not an unsurmountable problem. Anyone know what this might be. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 8 00:24:01 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A5916B1.6098.496AD86@localhost> > > I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such > thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is it > just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the AT > class computers? > - don > I wondered the same thing a while back and learned that there were such beasts. A supplier in Calgary Alberta responded tongue-in-cheek "Sure, how many do you want". TMK there were a fair number of mfgrs who made them. I've been meaning to put one in my heavily-modified PC and when I sort out my card box will see if I have a spare. I think the biggest problem with these old cards is figuring out how to set the jumpers. ciao larry ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 8 00:42:27 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: O.T.: Compu-Voxx ?? In-Reply-To: <3A590DD9.32383.4742072@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I have a box in a nice well padded soft-case called a Compu-Voxx. > It was manufactured by Manutronics. It has a removable antenna. > It appears to be some sort of transmitting device for sending > messages. Based on the instructions on the face you record a > message (to a chip I imagine) and then send if the selectable > digital readout frequency is between 88.1 and 107.9. I think it is the FM band, Larry. - don > That sounds like the AM band to me. Could this be some sort of > civil defense emergency device ? > It has a 5-pin DIN plug for power which unfortunately didn't come > with it which is not an unsurmountable problem. > Anyone know what this might be. > > ciao larry > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 8 01:38:12 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: <006801c07928$2ee6bc20$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <3A592814.24242.4DA9C17@localhost> I've also had injury to one of my ear nerve-endings. I know what you mean, but by now I think I would miss it if it stopped. :^) larry > ME TOO!!! > > I wish I could make that damn whistle stop so I could could go on with > my life please some one make it stop, no more whistle please... > > > To me the whistle just never stops and it doesn't require any extra > effort on my part. > > Francois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Ford" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 3:09 PM > Subject: Re: "Real" emulation... > > > > >reason I perfer to play my old piano. And often, I just whistle. > > > > Me too, sometimes I wish I could get it to stop. > > > > > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 8 01:54:02 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: O.T.: Compu-Voxx ?? In-Reply-To: References: <3A590DD9.32383.4742072@localhost> Message-ID: <3A592BCA.22856.4E91AE9@localhost> > > > On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I have a box in a nice well padded soft-case called a Compu-Voxx. > > It was manufactured by Manutronics. It has a removable antenna. > > It appears to be some sort of transmitting device for sending > > messages. Based on the instructions on the face you record a > > message (to a chip I imagine) and then send if the selectable > > digital readout frequency is between 88.1 and 107.9. > > I think it is the FM band, Larry. > - don > OOPS ! Must be the onset of Altheimers. This hasn't been a good month for abreviations. Now is there any way I can cancel this before it becomes a thread on the relative differences between AM and FM. Never had that problem with cat whiskers the oldtimer said, testily. larry > > That sounds like the AM band to me. Could this be some sort of > > civil defense emergency device ? > > It has a 5-pin DIN plug for power which unfortunately didn't come > > with it which is not an unsurmountable problem. > > Anyone know what this might be. > > > > ciao larry > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@look.ca > > > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From russ at rbcs.8m.com Mon Jan 8 04:03:10 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There are 8 bit cards as well as ones that are 16 in design that can either be set to 8 or can detect 8/16 when installed in an 8 bit slot. My first Trident based VGA card was like that. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 11:19 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is it just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the AT class computers? - don From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jan 8 09:15:20 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Real emulation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, which Wang system are you emulating? On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Jim Donoghue wrote: > So, I guess I'll have to add sound (and smell?) to my Wang minicomputer > emulator to emulate the failure mode of the hard disk drive.... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From etanaka at mlcp.com Mon Jan 8 10:50:35 2001 From: etanaka at mlcp.com (MLCP - Eric Tanaka) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Want to scrap/salvage: hi-tech equipment (populated circuit boards & equipment racks, chassies, etc.) Message-ID: <022501c07993$32265420$b2d5c33f@pacbell.net> Hello. We are looking to salvage a quantity of populated circuit boards, 19" equipment racks, smaller chassies and other various hi-tech equipment over the next couple of weeks and need a salvage company that can work with us -- Southern California. How do we proceed? Please advise. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric A. Tanaka MLCP - Multi-Link Communications Products WAN/ LAN Equipment: ADC-Kentrox Adtran Ascend Bay Networks Cascade Cisco / StrataCom Larscom Micom Motorola N.E.T. Newbridge Nortel Networks Paradyne Racal 3Com / US Robotics Timeplex Verilink & others tel............800 TO MULTI (800 866 8584), ext. 14 tel............+1 310 320 1451 fax...........+1 310 320 1551 email...... etanaka@mlcp.com URL........ http://www.mlcp.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 11:01:48 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: FREE HD46505 CRT controller chips Message-ID: Hello all, I have 19 spare Hitachi HD46505 CRT controller chips that I'd like to offer to the list members for free (you don't even have to pay postage). These chips are UNTESTED, so I make no guarantees... I believe, from looking at datasheets, that these are either a drop-in for, or very similar to, the 6845 CRT chip (the pinout is the same, and two of these are even marked with both the HD46505 and 6845P markings). However, I could be wrong, so caveat emptor... In order to be fair to all list members who might be interested, there are some rules.... - I will take off-list, emailed requests until Midnight, Jan 10, 2001 (US Eastern time). - You can request as many of the chips as you want, but depending on interest, you may only get one or two. - If more than 19 people respond, I will draw emails at random to give the chips out. I am willing to ship anywhere in the world that the US Postal Service allows me to ship the chips. Again, totally free... No, this is not some advertising scheme, and no, I am not harvesting any information from this. I have received a lot of help from list members in the past, and since I haven't been able to answer many questions on the list, this is my form of repayment... Thanks! Rich B. From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 8 11:16:24 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Annoying high pitched squeal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010108171848.RGHG17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I'd have to agree with the list. It sounds like your monitor is going to die. Fortunately, there are cables and such you can build or buy that will allow you to run a multisync VGA monitor on the ST. When my SC1224 dies I'm going to invest in one of these switchboxes. Since the new monitor is so much more capable, you can display hi rez mono and color modes on the same screen. You can upgrade the memory on the machine to 4mb and get a hard disk. I can help you with the MiNT operating system. Regards, Jeff In , on 01/08/01 at 12:16 PM, "Erich Weidenhammer" said: >I recently acquired an Atari 1040f from a friend. It came with the SC1224 > color monitor which, for some reason gives off a really awful high >pitched sound. Does anyone have some idea why this might happen? It >scares my cat. > Thanks. >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 8 11:21:28 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? In-Reply-To: <3A58B367.DBBD9845@home.net> Message-ID: <20010108172723.RLTP17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> What kind of cdrom drive and hard disk are you using? I had a hard time finding a drive that would work on my Vaxstation 4000/60. It likes my Quantum drives but not others. The symtom was a dump when I tried to use Backup to install the image. The machine would trap and give me a screenfull of numbers to write down... I also had a realy hard time with a cdrom drive and this machine. I eventually had to get a real RRD40 to get VMS installed. All the other drives would boot and get me to the Backup prompt, but the install would fail when I tried to install the image to hard disk. It is funny that the Vax didn't mind booting backup from a generic, non-512byte block cdrom drive, but the backup program freaks out on it. It is usually the other way around..... It drove me nuts. Regards, Jeff In <3A58B367.DBBD9845@home.net>, on 01/08/01 at 12:21 PM, Neil Cherry said: >I've discovered something a bit weird while loading OpenVMS on my 3100. >It hangs when I try to backup from the 7.2 CD! It does a mount >verification and never returns. I've even attempted the IPC method but >that just dumps! >I was able to load 6.1 but the license fails. May this be caused by the >fact that I attempted to use the license from a MicroVAX II (different >serial number)? Should I get a license for each machine (I have 3)? >BTW I had to try all sorts of variations of backup before it would backup >to the disk. >Thanks -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 8 10:52:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, John Lawson wrote: > My experience with the various PDP-11 systems I owned was like this. I > spent a *lot* of time doctoring the hardware. Aside from the hobbyist aspect, why would one want to emulate failures so that they should have to waste time debugging them? The beauty of emulators in this regard is that they aren't subject to the failures of the original hardware. That being said, if you're such a purist and want to get the real experience, perhaps an option could be added to the emulator that can be enabled or disabled by the user that triggers failures now and then. Taking it one step further, perhaps you can have a quotient that determines how often the failures are. Something between 0.0 (no failures) and 1 (dead). John, cut down on the Curry intake :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ncherry at home.net Mon Jan 8 12:26:06 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: How to install hobbiest CD? References: <20010108172723.RLTP17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <3A5A063E.31E48AEC@home.net> THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > What kind of cdrom drive and hard disk are you using? I had a hard time > finding a drive that would work on my Vaxstation 4000/60. It likes my > Quantum drives but not others. The symtom was a dump when I tried to use > Backup to install the image. The machine would trap and give me a > screenfull of numbers to write down... > > I also had a realy hard time with a cdrom drive and this machine. I > eventually had to get a real RRD40 to get VMS installed. All the other > drives would boot and get me to the Backup prompt, but the install would > fail when I tried to install the image to hard disk. It is funny that the > Vax didn't mind booting backup from a generic, non-512byte block cdrom > drive, but the backup program freaks out on it. It is usually the other > way around..... The hard disk is a DEC 104M SCSI disk (it came with the VS3100). The CDROM is a compaq unit I pulled from a system on it's way out the door. The backup actually worked for the 6.1 release but the syntax took some hacking to figure out (some like backup dkb500:vms061.b /save dka300). I now have a bunch of stuff loaded but it didn't like the License (I registered the MV3300 and tried to use it on the VS3100). I've now gotten my VS3100 registered but I haven't tried entering the data. The next item will be the VS2000 which I'll net boot and cluster. I'm really looking forward to playing with VMS. BTW: the mount verification problem is one I saw with the 2 MV3400's I have. One is up and running fine now the other won't go past the System version info. I'll play with that one later after I get the VS3100 up and running. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jan 8 10:33:04 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108103059.0197da08@208.226.86.10> At 08:52 AM 1/8/2001 -0800, Sellam wrote: >That being said, if you're such a purist and want to get the real >experience, perhaps an option could be added to the emulator that can be >enabled or disabled by the user that triggers failures now and then. >Taking it one step further, perhaps you can have a quotient that >determines how often the failures are. Something between 0.0 (no >failures) and 1 (dead). If such a system could be built (and I'm sure it could) it would be a fabulous training device for people. Imagine doing this same sort of thing on a PC (which fails more than my PDP-11 in my experience!) you could help thousands of people. --Chuck From peter at joules.org Mon Jan 8 12:46:15 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> References: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Message-ID: <01010818492302.00910@pluto.joules.org> On Mon, 08 Jan 2001, you wrote: > Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. > This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. > Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the > K-B is proprietory however. > Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ? > I not sure how much help it is to you, but the situation here in the UK is that there are quite a few base units, keyboards and mice (also proprietary) around because the PSU fails first so working monitors are about as common as hen's teeth. -- Regards Pete From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jan 8 11:09:25 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VT510 keyboard? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108110812.02baa358@208.226.86.129> Does the VT510 use a PC type PS/2 keyboard? (ie can I steal one from a PC and use it on the terminal?) --chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 8 13:31:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VT510 keyboard? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108110812.02baa358@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: >Does the VT510 use a PC type PS/2 keyboard? (ie can I steal one from a PC >and use it on the terminal?) > >--chuck I think it will work. We've actually got a VT510 clone on one of Auspex servers at work with a Windows keyboard! Some thing might act a bit wrong, but overall it should work. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 13:05:03 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010108/8c77a505/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 12:50:58 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Annoying high pitched squeal In-Reply-To: from "Erich Weidenhammer" at Jan 7, 1 06:10:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1716 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010108/be18c4f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 12:54:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Jan 7, 1 09:19:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010108/c37b14af/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 13:58:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <01010818492302.00910@pluto.joules.org> from "Peter Joules" at Jan 8, 1 06:46:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1211 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010108/9e7c8314/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jan 8 12:13:39 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108121052.02b0ae80@208.226.86.10> At 07:05 PM 1/8/2001 +0000, you wrote: >This is sort-of off-topic, but.... Not OTish at all, the Centtonics printer that started this mess is more than 10 yrs old. >On which edge of Stb/ (i.e. pin 1 of the 36 pin centronics connector) is >the data necessarily valid. I'd assumed it was the falling edge of stb/ >(and several printers seem to confirm this), but at least one computer has >the data lines changing as stb/ goes low, and they're stable as it goes >high again. The one Centronics line printer I used at Intel needed the data stable at the leading edge of STROBE*. I don't know what the setup time was though. --Chuck From ss at allegro.com Mon Jan 8 14:17:01 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Interesting Article in EE Times In-Reply-To: <3A58D8B8.69F2939A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3A59AFBD.7809.9BA4D2B@localhost> Re: > Interesting article at EE Times about gauging the impact of DVMs. Of course > http://www.eetimes.com/anniversary/designclassics/gauging.html How did you locate it? Even knowing the article exists, I couldn't find it from the EE Times main web page! I enjoyed it! While searching (fruitlessly) for other "Classic Design" columns, I found a series about other "milestones" http://www.eetimes.com/special/special_issues/millennium/milestones I enjoyed the one about the 555 timer at: http://www.eetimes.com/special/special_issues/millennium/milestones/camenzind.html Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Mon Jan 8 14:26:56 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VT510 keyboard? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108110812.02baa358@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: <002901c079b1$5aeb0d60$2ec6d63f@headleys> It uses a LK411 keyboard, but in setup you can adapt a PS/2 for limited use Headley ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck McManis To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: VT510 keyboard? > Does the VT510 use a PC type PS/2 keyboard? (ie can I steal one from a PC > and use it on the terminal?) > > --chuck > > From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Mon Jan 8 14:42:31 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VT510 keyboard? In-Reply-To: <002901c079b1$5aeb0d60$2ec6d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <000301c079b3$8672c7f0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Flipside: Can LK411's be used on PC's? Can they be purchased reasonably? Do they resemble LK2xx's at all? John A. From rdd at smart.net Mon Jan 8 14:43:51 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Want to scrap/salvage: hi-tech equipment (populated circuit boards & equipment racks, chassies, etc.) In-Reply-To: <022501c07993$32265420$b2d5c33f@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, MLCP - Eric Tanaka wrote: > We are looking to salvage a quantity of populated circuit boards, 19" equipment racks, smaller chassies and other various hi-tech equipment over the next couple of weeks and need a salvage company that can work with us -- Southern California. > > How do we proceed? Please advise. It's simple; the process is very easy. Please send a detailed list of all of your equipment to be salvaged to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org; we will most likely be glad to help you dispose of, and recycle, your interesting equipment in an ecologically friendly manner at a minimal cost, and perhaps at a profit for your company... we offer the most sensible good deal that you can find. Remember, think classiccmp@classiccmp.org for all of your computer, and high-tech equipment, disposal needs. We're only an e-mail away. Remember, it's classiccmp@classiccmp.org - the world's most innovative computer recycling organization. From rivie at teraglobal.com Mon Jan 8 15:47:12 2001 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108121052.02b0ae80@208.226.86.10> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108121052.02b0ae80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >The one Centronics line printer I used at Intel needed the data >stable at the leading edge of STROBE*. I don't know what the setup >time was though. Many years ago, a company I used to work for did a Centronics port for TURBOchannel. The timing we wound up using was data stable 500nS before strobe, strobe lasts 1mS, data remains stable until 500nS after strobe. IIRC, this is fairly close to what we found in Centronics documentation, but I don't remember what documents we found or what the exact numbers in that document were. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From rivie at teraglobal.com Mon Jan 8 15:48:53 2001 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing Message-ID: >Many years ago, a company I used to work for did a >Centronics port for TURBOchannel. The timing we wound >up using was data stable 500nS before strobe, strobe >lasts 1mS, data remains stable until 500nS after >strobe. IIRC, this is fairly close to what we found >in Centronics documentation, but I don't remember >what documents we found or what the exact numbers >in that document were. I'm sorry; I had a bit of a brain fart. The strobe lasts for one microsecond, not one millisecond. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 8 16:31:18 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Interesting Article in EE Times References: <3A59AFBD.7809.9BA4D2B@localhost> Message-ID: <3A5A3FB6.6D349EC4@rain.org> Stan Sieler wrote: > > Re: > > Interesting article at EE Times about gauging the impact of DVMs. Of course > > http://www.eetimes.com/anniversary/designclassics/gauging.html > > How did you locate it? Even knowing the article exists, I couldn't find it > from the EE Times main web page! Truth be known, I didn't find it but rather the URL was sent to me by a friend (extremely knowledgeable about Kapro Computers) who knew I would enjoy reading it. I figured there would be people on the list who would also enjoy it! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 16:33:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: from "Roger Ivie" at Jan 8, 1 02:47:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1915 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010108/4d215f62/attachment.ksh From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 8 16:44:31 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010108224419.FIT17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> They aren't that uncommon. I've got an 8-bit card if you want it. It is not the fastest video you'll ever see..... Regards, Jeff In , on 01/08/01 at 05:44 PM, Don Maslin said: >I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such thing >as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is it just >because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the AT class >computers? > - don -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Jan 8 17:06:35 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Functional Archive? Message-ID: <200101082306.SAA18686@drs-esg.com> Is there currently any functional archive of this list? www.classiccmp.org doesn't seem to be updating any more. Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From rivie at teraglobal.com Mon Jan 8 17:23:25 2001 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Some computers generate stb/ using a monostable that's triggered from the >clock signal to the output data latch in the computer. This means that >one edge of the strobe pulse is effectively coincident with the change of >the data lines to the printer. And I've seen _both_ polarities of pulse >used on so-called 'centronics' ports -- it appears that the printers were >all edge-triggered (at least modern printers are), but which edge is the >important one depends on the whim of the designer. Yeah, well, ACK and BUSY are pretty much at the whim of the designer, as well. I really don't remember all the fun we had trying to come up with a state machine to give us an interrupt when the printer had accepted the last byte we gave it and was ready to accept another. I seem to recall things like some printers hold ACK normally deasserted then pulse it asserted to signal they've accepted the byte while others do it the other way around. And you can't count on the relationship between BUSY and ACK pulses, either, although IIRC PCs tend to ignore one of them (I don't recall which one). For such a simple interface, Centronics sure is a mess... -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 8 17:40:22 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 References: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Message-ID: <001f01c079cc$5fa85310$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:46 AM Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 > Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. > This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. > Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the > K-B is proprietory however. Believe it or not I saw one the other day and was unable to find the machine to go with it. I think it was at Rebuilt Resources in North Bay, Ontario. From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 8 17:53:28 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: <20010108224419.FIT17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > They aren't that uncommon. I've got an 8-bit card if you want it. > > It is not the fastest video you'll ever see..... I'd be delighted to have it, Jeff. Certainly save a lot of blind alleys at the next swapmeet :) - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 18:10:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: from "Roger Ivie" at Jan 8, 1 04:23:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3352 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010109/829e7e61/attachment.ksh From ernestls at home.com Mon Jan 8 19:46:48 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1206099322 Here is a 1640 kb on ebay. Ernest >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker >Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:46 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 > > > Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. >This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. >Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the >K-B is proprietory however. >Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ? > >Thanks larry > > > >Reply to: >lgwalker@look.ca From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 8 19:49:06 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: SYM-1 questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why did Synertek refer to the SYM-1 as the SY-VIM-1 in some areas? Whatever became of Synertek? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 8 19:07:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:04 2005 Subject: SYM-1 questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Why did Synertek refer to the SYM-1 as the SY-VIM-1 in some > areas? Whatever became of Synertek? The SYM-1 was originally called the VIM-1 until MOS Technology objected to the name. So it was changed to the SYM-1. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jan 8 20:46:29 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... Message-ID: <003101c079e7$bc374940$8a789a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Jim Battle >For instance, the first version of the emulator would convert each >windows keystroke into an emulated "strobe" of a keystroke register. >But then my first user noted a discrepancy in a program he tried. > >After thinking about it a little bit, we realized that the difference was >because the real Sol generates an approximately 6 us strobe when >a key is hit, asynchronously setting a "key ready" flop. If the processor >polls this register, the flop gets cleared, but if it polls it before the >6 us strobe is finished, then reading it doesn't clear the flop since >the async strobe has priority. Thus, one keystroke can appear twice >in these circumstances. This is an oddity but remember the 8080 is 2mhz (5us for an INP insturction) so this only can occur if the buffer read should occur within 6us of the status read. Typically the code is something like this: keywait: INP status ani keyflag JNZ keywait ; back to top may be a JZ INP keydata ... The delay from the first input to the second is 10+7+7 (24 cycles or 12uS) if the J(n)Z is not taken and much more if it is so the race condidtion it typically not a problem. It could be if someone was reading keystokes on the fly something bad can occur but not reading the key pressed status first is bad programming. After looking at the drawing It appears the Key ready goes to a JK flop /K input and is not async as the data (strobe) is loaded on the falling edge of Phase2 clock. So the behavour observed is unlikely and the read/clear has precedence. While Phase2 occurs once every ~500ns it is possible to clear and reset making the key buffer hold what amounts to bounce (read twice). Also the Osc used for the 3uS clock in the keyboard is a TTL RC thing that likely has a +-25% error (times two as it's divided by 2) adding to the already long strobe. In the end it would take a pathological programming case to make that keyboard behavour show. >One thing I'm planning on adding is intermittent disk errors -- the reason >is that I want to eventually rewrite my CP/M BIOS and I would >rather test it on the emulator. Without failure simulation, then too >much of the BIOS would go untested. The assumption is the bios has error retry, many early bios did not. You got an error and the system you give you retry or ignore both usually fatal if bad data was read. Some of the early 8251 serial (UART) devices had a timing thing that could cause the reverse action. Never assume all devices are infinitely fast compared to the cpu. >Now for an example of behavior I'm not going to bother with. >The Sol keyboard has infinite key rollover. On my PC, either the >keyboard or the driver stops giving KEYDOWN messages after >about four keys are down. Perhaps there is some way to get that >extra info, but I'm not going to bother. I don't see any reason to >emulate that extra behavior, so it won't go in. No it didn't. The encoder may have had Nkey rollover but it was anything but infinite. There was at best one byte of buffereing. If you read the buffer fast enough you can stay mostly ahead of it but most software of the time didn't buffer what it got so the last key read was it. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jan 8 20:53:09 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... Message-ID: <003201c079e7$c610a600$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: Will Jennings >said hardware in operation... From the Ubergeek perspective, then yes, I'd >think you want the emulator to be weird like the real hardware, though it >could be good to have a less flaky version for those who are merely curious >and have never experienced the real hardware... On the other hand, if you're They important item is to be sure the said oddity is really real or some side effect of age, errors in assembly or just bad programming. I also agree with Will, introducing errors is not a desired case. Most floppies actually worked with reasonable reliability. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jan 8 21:00:42 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... Message-ID: <00a301c079e9$e8d46b70$8a789a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> the add-on A-400 oscillator, used to tune your Moog back up as it drifted >> off pitch, which they all did more or less constantly. The documentation >> mentions retaining this feature even though the emulation no longer >> drifts. >> >> But: why not? Shouldn't it drift, actually? > >Hmm... This is a difficult problem. It was extreamly annoying trying to cut a track and keep pitch over time. >But as regards undesirable behaviour (computers that suffer from logic >problems in the design, synthesisers that drift), well, IMHO the >simulator should be _able_ to exhibit that behaviour as well. A processor >designed with a race hazard so that 1 cycle in 10^11 (or so) it does the >wrong thing should be emulated as having that problem. Maybe there should >be an option to turn it off (on the emulator) though. The bset examples is the 8085 and z80 undocumented instructions that all the vendors faithfully reproduced for that exact reason. >It's not going to be trivial to implement that. Not only do you have to >be able to emulate the machine when some components aren't working >properly (how many people know what (say) a PDP8/e would do if a given >gate was stuck at 0 or stuck at 1, what would happen if one input on a >multi-input gate stopped working), you also have to allow for idiots like >me who want to 'cut tracks', inject arbitrary signals, etc. Are you going >to allow me to 'desolder' components and test them separately. I am >thinking about gates that 'go slow' -- I've had 74S TTL that tests fine >at slow speeds (switches and LEDs on a breadboard) but which fails when >run at full speed. This sort of fault is painful to find because often >the machine works correctly when single-stepped as well. Yes emulating N^X error states is not a lot of fun for something as simple as PDP-8 and it gets worse for more complex systems. Not many would want that save for those training in repair methods. Allison From rdd at smart.net Mon Jan 8 21:25:20 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108103059.0197da08@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > If such a system could be built (and I'm sure it could) it would be a > fabulous training device for people. Imagine doing this same sort of thing > on a PC (which fails more than my PDP-11 in my experience!) you could help > thousands of people. Surely anyone should be able to realize that the best machine for an emulator is a PERQ, which, if certain AMD bit-slice processor chips were still being produced, we could all build. The system is user microprogammable, and some code for emulation, e.g., 6502 uP, IIRC, already exists. More than one type of emulation in microcode can be run at the same time, so, for example, one could be running the Accent OS with it's Sapphire window manager, while also running other microcode to emulate some other architecture, yet, have that other architecture make use of the Sapphire window manager. The system is predictably flakey, yet reasonably reliable enough for reasonably serious use (e.g., I wrote a book on it using the Mint document processing software, which is something like Scribe or LaTeX), created graphics for the book on the PERQ, and printed it on the PERQ's laser printer, which, like with the NeXT, is driven directly by the machine's CPU. In addition, a PERQ, which, depending on the model number, has four or five fans, which can help heat a basement due to the good circulation of heat dissipated. The Z80 processor used for I/O is also user programmable, so, one can have some fun with that as well. If they'd only included a TCP/IP stack with the PERQs, which did, BTW, have ethernet boards that some sort of CMU (I forget what it's called at the moment) and Cambridge Ring ethernet networking. Ah well. Has anyone ever videotaped the fantastic PERQ graphics demos, or the surrealistic animated computer artwork called "Strawberry Fairchild"? It would be a shame to lose these if the last PERQs quit PERQing. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Mon Jan 8 21:40:32 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI) Message-ID: <020b01c079ed$ec39e0c0$2ec6d63f@headleys> I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation Headley ===================================================================== PH: 302-798-1930 Fax: 302-798-0243 Mobile: 302-983-4293 From rcini at optonline.net Mon Jan 8 21:53:40 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT - ActiveX Controls Message-ID: Hello, all: I figure that I'd lob this out to the group considering that there are probably several programmer-types on the list. I'm looking for a decent, cheap (well, free, or close to it) ActiveX control for MSVC++ that implements a 7- or 14-segment LED display? I've spent most of the night searching for one, but most of what I come up with are VBX controls. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 8 22:15:13 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: References: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Message-ID: <3A5A4A01.29087.1EA81EC@localhost> Thanks. Got it covered. larry > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1206099322 > > Here is a 1640 kb on ebay. > > Ernest > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker > >Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:46 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 > > > > > > Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. > >This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. > >Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the > >K-B is proprietory however. Anyone with a spare or a work-around for > >this beast ? > > > >Thanks larry > > > > > > > >Reply to: > >lgwalker@look.ca > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 9 01:08:04 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108103059.0197da08@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20010109070909.PLII17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> It is called BOCHS PC emulator and I'm sure it will satisfy any failure rate you require without further modification so long as you run Windos as the operating system. In <5.0.0.25.2.20010108103059.0197da08@208.226.86.10>, on 01/09/01 at 02:08 AM, Chuck McManis said: >f such a system could be built (and I'm sure it could) it would be a >fabulous training device for people. Imagine doing this same sort of >thing on a PC (which fails more than my PDP-11 in my experience!) you >could help thousands of people. >--Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 9 01:19:31 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Centronix733+IBMPC=FIRE Why? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108121052.02b0ae80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20010109072333.PUFL17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> If you connect an Atari 825 printer to a PC, the printer fries itself. This is an OEM Centronics 733 printer. Why does it make smoke? I've burned three printers and know my signals/cables are correct. I've run tons of printers off ataris that weren't atari printers. Why does this printer call the fire dept when connected to the PC?? P.S. I've one more that works perfectly so I can experiment.................................. I will produce the pinouts for each machine, but wanted instant gratification..... Regards all, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Jan 8 18:34:29 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing" (Jan 8, 22:33) References: Message-ID: <10101090034.ZM29254@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 8, 22:33, Tony Duell wrote: > That's what most of the printer manuals I've seen say as well -- get the > data stable for 0.5uS, bring stb/ low for 0.5us-1us (I saw the correction > you posted) and then keep the data stable for 0.5us after stb/ has risen > again. > Oh well... I'll try the falling edge (which is what the majority of > machines use) and moan about machines that violate the (non-existant?) > standard. The only genuine Centronics manuals I have are for the Centronics 737/739 printers, but for what it's worth, the technical section says the data must be valid for 1us before the leading edge of the negative-going strobe pulse, the pulse should last a minimum of 1us, and the data must remain stable for 1us after the trailing (rising) edge. Of course, this isn't necessarily a standard, just what one Centronics printer wants. In this particular series, the BUSY signal goes active (high) on the trailing edge of ~STROBE (within 50ns) and remains active until the leading edge of ~ACKNLG (within 50ns); ~ACKNLG goes low (active) 300-470us after the trailing edge of ~STROBE (or once the line is printed if the character received is a CR), and lasts for 5us. The only other handshake is ~DEMAND, which is the inverse of BUSY. I used to have some Epson manuals, and I'm sure they use the leading (negative-going) edge of ~STROBE as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From enrico.badella at softstar.it Tue Jan 9 03:01:09 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) References: Message-ID: <3A5AD355.96C72550@softstar.it> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > Surely anyone should be able to realize that the best machine for an > emulator is a PERQ, which, if certain AMD bit-slice processor chips > were still being produced, we could all build. The system is user Why are you so cruel!?!? I've been looking for a PERQ but never found one at least here in Italy. They seem to be a UL almost like Lisp Machines of Xerox D-machines. I would trade my 11/40 and my VAX FT 3000 for one of these! > microprogammable, and some code for emulation, e.g., 6502 uP, IIRC, > already exists. More than one type of emulation in microcode can be Writing micorcode isn't a job for the faint of heart. At university we built an 8080 using 2901 bit slices and it was quite a task but sure was the fastest CP/M machine I've ever used; F80 was lightning fast compared to another Z80A CP/M box. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From stuart at zen.co.uk Tue Jan 9 04:10:06 2001 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: cray el (uk) needs rescue Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.1.20010109100830.02105060@mail.salford.ac.uk> Hi all, I've been offered a Cray EL in the UK, that frankly, is too big for me to handle. A good home is needed to offer removal and relocation, or else it will be scrapped. The machine is non-operational. Interetested parties should e-mail me. cheers, stu From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 9 04:36:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: SYM-1 questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >The SYM-1 was originally called the VIM-1 until MOS Technology objected to >the name. So it was changed to the SYM-1. Then only those SYM-1's produed early in the run in '78 would carry the VIM-1 label? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 9 08:00:25 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4170 ???? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010109090025.44c72cd6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Is anyone on the list familar with this one? I found one yesterday. It's the size of a large tower case and has two 5 1/4" floppy drives mounted vertically in the top. There are also two "Write Protect" switches on the top of the front panel indicating that it may have internal hard drives. The thing that caught my attention was that it had two disks in the drives and one of them is marked CPM-86. I found a brief description in the 1985 Tektronix catalog. They call it a "Local Graphics Processing Unit" and is used with the 4105, 4106, 4107 and 4109 terminals. From the decription, I *think* it makes them into stand alone CAD systems. Does anyone have any docs for this thing? Joe From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Tue Jan 9 07:17:16 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:46:17 -0500 Lawrence Walker wrote: > Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. > This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. > Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the > K-B is proprietory however. I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM XT-compatible? Note that the XT keyboard is not the same as the "modern" AT keyboard. The XT had no caps-lock lights, for instance. And the interface protocol was subtly different, even though it used the same 5-pin DIN plug. You may be able to find old PC keyboards with an AT/XT switch on the bottom. If you can, select XT and try it! -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 9 07:49:39 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D45@TEGNTSERVER> > I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital > Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I > need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that > can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is ^^^^ > associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation The sought-after word there was "pique". ;-) From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 9 06:47:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: SYM-1 questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Then only those SYM-1's produed early in the run in '78 would > carry the VIM-1 label? Correct. I know of only one person who has a "VIM-1". Do you have one as well? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 9 08:45:11 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI) In-Reply-To: OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI) (Douglas Quebbeman) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D45@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: <14939.9207.559489.441615@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 9, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital > > Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I > > need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that > > can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is > ^^^^ > > associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation > > The sought-after word there was "pique". > > ;-) Last time I "piqued", I got slapped. -Dave McGuire From kevan at heydon.org Tue Jan 9 09:22:03 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80K Available in UK Message-ID: The guy in the mail below has a Sharp MZ-80K he wants to get rid of. Please reply to him directly, I don't think he is going to be willing to post so I think you will have to collect from Bristol. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 14:05:25 -0000 From: Nick Reynolds Subject: Do you want (or know anyone who wants) a Sharp MZ-80K? Some years ago I took a Sharp MZ-80K computer (+ manuals + printer + software) off someone who would have otherwise have thrown it in a skip. I believe it works OK, although I've never actually powered it up myself. I don't really want it, but rather than throw it in a skip, I am trying to find a good home to give it to. Do you want it (I note you already have one) or do you know anyone who does? I live in Bristol (UK) and could deliver it to somewhere round here if the eventual recipient had a friend or relative near here who could ensure its eventual delivery. Nick Reynolds From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Jan 9 10:39:19 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Centronix733+IBMPC=FIRE Why? In-Reply-To: <20010109072333.PUFL17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108121052.02b0ae80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A5AF867.13874.493DE3E@localhost> > If you connect an Atari 825 printer to a PC, the printer fries itself. > This is an OEM Centronics 733 printer. Why does it make smoke? I've > burned three printers and know my signals/cables are correct. I've > run tons of printers off ataris that weren't atari printers. Why does > this printer call the fire dept when connected to the PC?? > > P.S. I've one more that works perfectly so I can > experiment.................................. I will produce the > pinouts for each machine, but wanted instant gratification..... > > Regards all, > > Jeff Cause it's heartbroken at being slaved to such an inferior machine ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Jan 9 10:39:20 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: References: <3A590DD9.988.474209A@localhost> Message-ID: <3A5AF868.31396.493DE66@localhost> > > On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:46:17 -0500 Lawrence Walker > wrote: > > Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B. > > This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case. > > Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the > > K-B is proprietory however. > > I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM XT-compatible? > > Note that the XT keyboard is not the same as the "modern" > AT keyboard. The XT had no caps-lock lights, for instance. > And the interface protocol was subtly different, even > though it used the same 5-pin DIN plug. You may be able to > find old PC keyboards with an AT/XT switch on the bottom. > If you can, select XT and try it! > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > Nope. I have about a 1/2 dozen of the IBM PC/XT K-Bs. Those hefty beasts are my favorite k-b. Also a couple of the XT/AT switch type. This Amstrad does have a 5-pin DIN, but the pins are arranged differently than on the PC. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From elvey at hal.com Tue Jan 9 11:31:14 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Centronix733+IBMPC=FIRE Why? In-Reply-To: <20010109072333.PUFL17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <200101091731.f09HVFc20686@civic.hal.com> THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > If you connect an Atari 825 printer to a PC, the printer fries itself. > This is an OEM Centronics 733 printer. Why does it make smoke? I've > burned three printers and know my signals/cables are correct. I've run > tons of printers off ataris that weren't atari printers. Why does this > printer call the fire dept when connected to the PC?? > > P.S. I've one more that works perfectly so I can > experiment.................................. I will produce the pinouts > for each machine, but wanted instant gratification..... Hi I know of one other case that is similar to this. I don't recall the printer type but it was used with an apple. When the computer was turned on first, the input devices would latch up on the printer when it was powered up. In his case, if he turned on the printer first and then the computer, all worked fine. Another thing to look for is the line that has 5 volts on it. It may be connected at both ends, to both supplies. This would be bad because the supply with the higher voltage will try to power both units. These are the two things that I can think of to look for. Dwight From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Jan 9 12:10:36 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) References: <3A5AD355.96C72550@softstar.it> Message-ID: <3A5B541C.2CA24BE2@idirect.com> >Enrico Badella wrote: > Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP hardware,software, > manuals,schematics,etc. Jerome Fine replies: Does that include PDP-11 software? And if so, is RT-11 software of interest? I don't suppose that it would be reasonable to ship and hardware or documentation from Toronto since I assume that for hobby use, the cost would be too high, but software could be sent by e-mail. If you are interested in RT-11, what would you be doing with it? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 9 12:35:50 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: <10101090034.ZM29254@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Jan 9, 1 00:34:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1088 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010109/5b51fda5/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 9 13:05:19 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Sharp MZ-80K Available in UK In-Reply-To: Kevan Heydon "Sharp MZ-80K Available in UK" (Jan 9, 15:22) References: Message-ID: <10101091905.ZM29784@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 15:22, Kevan Heydon wrote: > > The guy in the mail below has a Sharp MZ-80K he wants to get rid > of. Please reply to him directly, I don't think he is going to be willing > to post so I think you will have to collect from Bristol. > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > I don't really want it, but rather than throw it in a skip, I am trying to > find a good home to give it to. Do you want it (I note you already have > one) or do you know anyone who does? I have one too -- but I think I'm missing the BASIC tape. Could you do me a copy sometime? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 9 13:01:54 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: cray el (uk) needs rescue In-Reply-To: Stuart "cray el (uk) needs rescue" (Jan 9, 10:10) References: <5.0.0.25.1.20010109100830.02105060@mail.salford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <10101091901.ZM29780@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 10:10, Stuart wrote: > Hi all, > I've been offered a Cray EL in the UK, that frankly, is too big for me to > handle. A good home is needed to offer removal and relocation, or else it > will be scrapped. The machine is non-operational. > Interetested parties should e-mail me. Stu, you could ask Jim Austin (whom I think you know (of)) -- I'm sure he has space since I just moved some of my stuff out of his storage. He already has a Y-MP and a few bigger things. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jan 9 11:16:58 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Not a BA212, what is it? VAX Question Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010109111122.06bd2ec0@208.226.86.129> Well, this is truly interesting. I cleaned up and checked out the VAX 4000/200 I got in what I thought was the BA212 cabinet. But it isn't. The tag on the side calls it a BA400 series (and the power supply certainly bears that out) but it is like the BA212 in that the card cage is _behind_ the drive bays. The drives are your standard BA440 type removable (who ever invented that guide/track system does NOT get any bonus points) and the front cover doesn't have a door, only a cover to prevent the drives from being removed when it is in place. Does anyone know what chassis type this is? The system was built in 1991 (see, its on topic now :-) but I've not got a later version of the MicroVAX Technical Handbook which might describe it (the version I have describes the BA440 with the VAX 4000/300) --Chuck From ss at allegro.com Tue Jan 9 13:16:34 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010108103059.0197da08@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A5AF312.1546.EA97F4F@localhost> Re: > Surely anyone should be able to realize that the best machine for an > emulator is a PERQ, which, if certain AMD bit-slice processor chips > were still being produced, we could all build. The system is user > microprogammable, and some code for emulation, e.g., 6502 uP, IIRC, > already exists. More than one type of emulation in microcode can be > run at the same time, so, for example, one could be running the Accent > OS with it's Sapphire window manager, while also running other I beg to differ :) The Burroughs B1700 / B1800 / B1900 would be better to use... they ran "pico-code", which "simultaneously" (via time-slicing) interpreted multiple microcodes, each of which was running some process or other. Thus, COBOL code was running on an "ideal" microcode for COBOL (Burroughs shipped several different COBOL microcodes...the compiler chose the appropriate one based on your code (e.g., how many variables you had, vs. other concerns)), and SPL (?) ran on it's own microcode, etc. The Burroughs B1700 was circa 1974, IIRC. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 9 13:04:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jan 8, 1 10:25:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7958 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010109/511325a6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 9 13:06:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Centronix733+IBMPC=FIRE Why? In-Reply-To: <20010109072333.PUFL17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Jan 9, 1 02:19:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 535 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010109/0d9630d4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 9 13:11:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) In-Reply-To: <3A5AD355.96C72550@softstar.it> from "Enrico Badella" at Jan 9, 1 10:01:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010109/b6385729/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 9 14:50:38 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT: Lightning vs Lightning Bug (Was: RE: Digital Ethernet Local N etwork Interconnect (DELNI) In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D45@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I recently came into possession of about half a dozen of the Digital > > Ethernet Local Network Interconnect (DELNI). This is about 4 more than I > > need. I am willing to trade them singularly for something anyone has that > > can peek my interest. I am particularly interested in items that is > ^^^^ > > associated DEC, HP and IBM workstation > > The sought-after word there was "pique". > > ;-) > I 'peek'ed as your 'pique' 'peak'ed B=^} From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Jan 9 15:01:31 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT-ish : Centronics printer port timing" (Jan 9, 18:35) References: Message-ID: <10101092101.ZM29854@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 9, 18:35, Tony Duell wrote: > I have a reasonable set of IBM Techrefs, and the timing for the 'IBM > Graphics Printer' (a rebadged Epson MX80 or something like that) is much > the same. In fact that's what I used as the 'standard' to design my > interface. Of course what I'll discover too late is that the Epson timing > (or that of other common printers like the Deskjet family) didn't > actually have to be anything like that and that the authors of various > OSes did something totally different that worked with common printers... FWIW, the two assembly-language routines I can think of that used 7-bit ASCII (one on a Z80 and one on a 6502) both did it by waiting for BUSY to go false, then wrote (char AND 7FH) to the port, wrote (char OR 80H), wrote (char AND 7FH) again, and exited. The eighth data bit was inverted and used as the strobe. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 9 15:32:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Found Apple II SCSI card Message-ID: Yes! I finally found an Apple II SCSI card. It was inside a //gs I picked up at a thrift store (complete with the AppleColor RGB monitor for $20). Funny how you don't pay attention to certain messages until you get one of what's being discussed yourself :) But my questions is, I can use this in an Apple //e as well, right? I also picked up a hard drive and some external floppies for the Mac that was there, but I'm wondering if maybe these were used on the GS? The one floppy is an Epson which I know is for the Mac, and the hard drive is a Data Frame DF20. I wonder if I can use this with the GS? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Jan 9 16:58:17 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Found Apple II SCSI card Message-ID: <63.1035130e.278cf189@aol.com> In a message dated 1/9/01 5:52:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, foo@siconic.com writes: << Yes! I finally found an Apple II SCSI card. It was inside a //gs I picked up at a thrift store (complete with the AppleColor RGB monitor for $20). Funny how you don't pay attention to certain messages until you get one of what's being discussed yourself :) But my questions is, I can use this in an Apple //e as well, right? >> yes, you can even use it in a ][+ although you have to have 64k so as to run prodos. It would probably even work in a laser128's expansion slot too. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 9 19:33:22 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: New finds Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010109203322.359fd312@mailhost.intellistar.net> In the last couple of days I hit a used book store, scrap yard and Skycraft (THE mother of all surplus stores!) and came away with a good pile of stuff. Motorola Exor-bus CPU card with 6809 CPU, a pile of 7 more Exor-bus cards (Mike, where are you?) and a Rockwell R6500 AIM computer built into some kind of an incomplete machine. It has a riser card on the expansion connector and a second circuit card plugged into the riser. The only name I can find on it is "Aeronca Electronics Inc - 1984". The card has three DataSentry NiCad batteries on it along with two R6522P ICs and two HM 6116 Static Rams. Anyone know what this might have been? Other hardware includes an OMTI bridge board. It's a model 5400. Does anyone know what it is? I haven't had time to research it. Other goodies include "Interfacing to S-100/IEEE696 Microcomputers" by Sol Libes and Mark Garetz, "Starting Forth", "Thinking Forth" and "Discover Forth". Also "Principles of Data Processing with BASIC" from 1970. It's not too exciting except for a section on the IBM 29 card punch in the appendix. Other bookies include "Assembly language for the IBM-PC" by Kip Irvine and "Fundamentals of Logic Design" by Roth. They both look like good books. Joe From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 9 18:36:54 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: New finds (Joe) References: <3.0.1.16.20010109203322.359fd312@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <14939.44710.143107.11442@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 9, Joe wrote: > Other goodies include "Interfacing to S-100/IEEE696 Microcomputers" by > Sol Libes and Mark Garetz, "Starting Forth", "Thinking Forth" and "Discover Wow, Sol Libes! Haven't seen THAT name in a while. I think I had that book at one point. Neat score! -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Tue Jan 9 19:42:38 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) In-Reply-To: <3A5AD355.96C72550@softstar.it> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Enrico Badella wrote: > Why are you so cruel!?!? I've been looking for a PERQ but never found Cruel? Sorry, didn't mean to be. Speaking if cruel, the person who sold me one PERQ made me take another as a condition for being able to buy a PERQ... life's so unfair, isn't it? Just think of the difficulty I had driving home with two PERQ-T2 chasis, a 19" landscape monitor and a keyboard in the back of the station wagon - it wasn't easy to see out of the tailgate window. As to my PERQ-1A systems, the shipping cost for them was rather cruel, and, alas, neither one is presently running. Does anyone know where I can obtain one or more spare SA4008 hard drives to get these PERQs running again? BTW, if anyone's interested, before the page goes away, grab a copy of http://www.mfarris.com/know/large/large1.html before it goes away. It looks like a good minimal, reference for some larger, older, drives, even though it's lacking some useful details. BTW, I checked there a while back trying to find one of these drives, and was told that they don't deal with them any longer. > one at least here in Italy. They seem to be a UL almost like Lisp > Machines of Xerox D-machines. I would trade my 11/40 and my VAX FT 3000 > for one of these! Thanks for the offer. Alas, I must reject it - no trade... well, of course, if you toss in a complete PDP-11/45, a Data General Eclipse system running AOS/VS, a VAX 11/730, a pair of McIntosh MC-2000 tube (valve) amps, and some body parts that I can't find for my car (just because it's 29 years old is no reason for the manufacture of the parts to have been discontinued!), and a house on a couple of dozen acres of good, partially wooded, farm/pasture land in an area that I like - with good well water or city water, then we can talk about a trade for a working PERQ with lots of neat software, copies of the schematics, hundreds of pages of PERQ-related e-mail, and copies of other neat PERQ-relted things. See, I'm a very reasonable man who's always willing to accept a good deal. ;-) > Writing micorcode isn't a job for the faint of heart. At university we > built an 8080 using 2901 bit slices and it was quite a task but sure > was the fastest CP/M machine I've ever used; F80 was lightning fast > compared to another Z80A CP/M box. That sounds like a fun toy! -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 9 19:55:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: PERQs for emulation (was: "Real" emulation) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Jan 9, 1 08:42:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1530 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010110/980bc01e/attachment.ksh From louiss at gate.net Tue Jan 9 22:45:34 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> OK, here is a very elementary question that has always stumped me. Is there any difference between an external SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? For some reason or another, I have always had the impression that Mac drives had something different about them. And, they are always marketed separately. Enquiring minds want to know..... Louis From rdd at smart.net Tue Jan 9 22:58:29 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: VGA card - 8 bit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > I guess that this is a rather naive question, but is there any such > thing as an 8-bit VGA card? If not, is the 16-bits necessary or is > it just because it came about after 16-bit ISA came along with the > AT class computers? Perhaps I'm showing my age, but, wow, I don't recall there being anything unusual about VGA cards for an 8-bit XT bus. One type I haven't seen mentioned here is the Hercules VGA board (was it also 16 bit? I'll have to find it and take a look); my IBM PC-XT had both the Hercules VGA and Hercules monochrome adapters in it at the same time, so I could use two monitors with some programs, displaying different things on each. I removed the VGA card when my Zenith VGA monitor quit working (which I've got to get around to repairing), and just went back to the old Sysdyne monochrome monitor. VGA graphics were rather slow, but some of them looked great, like those in the Undersea Adventure game - alas, it's copy protected, and no copy-unprotect software that I tried allowed me to make a copy; not sure if the disc is still readable, but it was the most interesting video game that I've played---although I'll have to admit that I rarely play computer games, as they waste too much time and life's too short to waste. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 9 23:10:15 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: New finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010109203322.359fd312@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20010110052556.CWBZ17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The 6522 chips and the static rams indicate to me that the card might well be a scsi/sasi/floppy type I/O board. The 6522 is used on the BLACK BOX scsi/sasi interface for the Atari 8-bit series and is produced by CSS (Robert Puff of NY). If he can't tell you what it is, what it does, and what it COULD DO, then it doesn't do anything at all. Regards, Jeff In <3.0.1.16.20010109203322.359fd312@mailhost.intellistar.net>, on 01/10/01 at 12:10 AM, Joe said: > In the last couple of days I hit a used book store, scrap yard and >Skycraft (THE mother of all surplus stores!) and came away with a good >pile of stuff. Motorola Exor-bus CPU card with 6809 CPU, a pile of 7 >more Exor-bus cards (Mike, where are you?) and a Rockwell R6500 AIM >computer built into some kind of an incomplete machine. It has a riser >card on the expansion connector and a second circuit card plugged into >the riser. The only name I can find on it is "Aeronca Electronics Inc - >1984". The card has three DataSentry NiCad batteries on it along with two >R6522P ICs and two HM 6116 Static Rams. Anyone know what this might have >been? Other hardware includes an OMTI bridge board. It's a model 5400. >Does anyone know what it is? I haven't had time to research it. > Other goodies include "Interfacing to S-100/IEEE696 Microcomputers" by >Sol Libes and Mark Garetz, "Starting Forth", "Thinking Forth" and >"Discover Forth". Also "Principles of Data Processing with BASIC" from >1970. It's not too exciting except for a section on the IBM 29 card punch >in the appendix. Other bookies include "Assembly language for the IBM-PC" >by Kip Irvine and "Fundamentals of Logic Design" by Roth. They both look >like good books. > Joe -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 9 23:27:58 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <20010110052959.CZRA17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Apple drives often have a rom change before they become apple. Sometimes it is a sort of 'firmware' change involving stored data on track zero which can be recoded via software. Didn't Compaq get a class action suit and settlement because they did this to thier IDE drives for the Deskpro series? They bought a line of Conner drives and re-romed them so they would only work on Deskpro machines and the controllers on the Deskpro wouldn't use any other drive? Anyone who does something like that to a computer ought to be shot. Regards, Jeff <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net>, on 01/10/01 at 12:27 AM, "Louis Schulman" said: >OK, here is a very elementary question that has always >stumped me. Is there any difference between an external >SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard >drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other >computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after >formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? >For some reason or another, I have always had the >impression that Mac drives had something different about >them. And, they are always marketed separately. >Enquiring minds want to know..... >Louis -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 9 23:33:46 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Functional Archive? In-Reply-To: <200101082306.SAA18686@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20010110053342.DBZL17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Not that I'm aware of. When I want to dig into old stuff I do a search in GOOGLE. I run across my own messages often when searching for topical stuff like NUKE REDMOND! Regards, Jeff In <200101082306.SAA18686@drs-esg.com>, on 01/10/01 at 12:33 AM, David Gesswein said: > Is there currently any functional archive of this list? >www.classiccmp.org doesn't seem to be updating any more. >Thanks, >David Gesswein >http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 9 23:54:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > OK, here is a very elementary question that has always > stumped me. Is there any difference between an external > SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard > drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other > computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after > formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple peculiarity would be its lack of support for remote start in SCSI, so the hard drives will need to jumpered for automatic start on power, but this won't affect other systems. From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 9 23:35:00 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010109070909.PLII17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> LET THEM EAT STOCK. Since Bush is going to be President (I'm fine with that though I voted for Brown), I thought it important to remind folks that the Redmond Washington-based company, Microsoft should be destroyed entirely. Those employees not directly culpable are still guilty because they knew MS was doing hateful things. Let them apply at SUN and see what they get. That will be thier purgatory. Gates and his cronies should rot in jail. Gates built his empire on the suicides of those he destroyed. Bush is probably going to try to save MS from themselves and I hope he fails utterly. Brown would have been even easier on MS than Bush, but he supports most of what I believe in otherwise. Assume Brown won and I'd write the same message. I'd like to see Bill Gates sentenced to prison for destroying individuals who didn't like his products and who said so rather than for the fabrication MS is being prosecuted for. The attacks were direct and devastating. A huge multinational company targeted and destroyed many careers in fear that competent, well-respected opinions might actually be heard. The truth is far worse than anything DOJ has conjured up. The truth is that if MS had not spent it's resources terrorizing individuals and destroying other companies through deceit, theft, and violence, Microsoft would not exist today. Aparently, no amount of resources expended by MS would produce a decent operating system given the failures to date. Gates one day may catch a bullet from some Finnish guy 'on the dole' because MS made the company he worked for 'fire' him for not toeing the line. I don't think it is right, but I wouldn't wail at the funeral either. If we don't get justice, I say we should ask the Chinese or the North Koreans to take care of the problem for us. That way they would be able to actually BUY thier OS/2 instead of burning thier own cd's. One Long Dong with a 22kt warhead ought to do. My point is that Microsoft is not a company. It is a mafia. It should not be split or otherwise reorganized but should be utterly and totally destroyed. The ash should be mixed with concrete and used to create a monument to freedom, democracy, free-trade, and particularly; the persuit of excellence both technical and spiritual. A monument to remind us all of how NOT to run a company and how NOT to do business. Microsoft - "The Jeffrey Dahmer of companies (TM)" Regards all, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 10 00:59:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <001401c07ad2$df59d0a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Oh, quite complaining!. Just because YOU didn't have the smarts or the imagination and certainly lacked the application and diligence to build a successful business like Gates and his pals did doesn't mean you can sit, idly regurgitating the same unconsidered rubbish every time you're short a buck or two. If you con't like what Gates has done or how he's done it, then do better. Don't whine. Get out there and do it! Either that or shut up and suffer the much deserved consequence of your own inaction. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:35 PM Subject: Nuke Redmond! > LET THEM EAT STOCK. > > Since Bush is going to be President (I'm fine with that though I voted for > Brown), I thought it important to remind folks that the Redmond > Washington-based company, Microsoft should be destroyed entirely. Those > employees not directly culpable are still guilty because they knew MS was > doing hateful things. Let them apply at SUN and see what they get. That > will be thier purgatory. Gates and his cronies should rot in jail. > > Gates built his empire on the suicides of those he destroyed. > > Bush is probably going to try to save MS from themselves and I hope he > fails utterly. Brown would have been even easier on MS than Bush, but he > supports most of what I believe in otherwise. Assume Brown won and I'd > write the same message. > > I'd like to see Bill Gates sentenced to prison for destroying individuals > who didn't like his products and who said so rather than for the > fabrication MS is being prosecuted for. The attacks were direct and > devastating. A huge multinational company targeted and destroyed many > careers in fear that competent, well-respected opinions might actually be > heard. > > The truth is far worse than anything DOJ has conjured up. The truth is > that if MS had not spent it's resources terrorizing individuals and > destroying other companies through deceit, theft, and violence, Microsoft > would not exist today. Aparently, no amount of resources expended by MS > would produce a decent operating system given the failures to date. > > Gates one day may catch a bullet from some Finnish guy 'on the dole' > because MS made the company he worked for 'fire' him for not toeing the > line. I don't think it is right, but I wouldn't wail at the funeral > either. > > If we don't get justice, I say we should ask the Chinese or the North > Koreans to take care of the problem for us. That way they would be able > to actually BUY thier OS/2 instead of burning thier own cd's. One Long > Dong with a 22kt warhead ought to do. > > My point is that Microsoft is not a company. It is a mafia. It should not > be split or otherwise reorganized but should be utterly and totally > destroyed. The ash should be mixed with concrete and used to create a > monument to freedom, democracy, free-trade, and particularly; the persuit > of excellence both technical and spiritual. A monument to remind us all of > how NOT to run a company and how NOT to do business. > > Microsoft - "The Jeffrey Dahmer of companies (TM)" > > Regards all, > > Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 10 01:02:36 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:05 2005 Subject: Laser 128 expansion port In-Reply-To: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <20010110070406.FTWJ17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> A recent message mentioned that the Laser 128 has an expansion port which can use Apple II cards. Is this accurate? If so, I think I'll dig my laser out and dog the hell out of it. I had no idea. BTW, anyone got a scsi card for Apple II they don't want or need? Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Jan 10 01:37:52 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <3A5C1129.94251264@eoni.com> Spent the day 'upgrading' to Windows ME I assume... Jim From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 10 02:21:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <3A5C1129.94251264@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > Spent the day 'upgrading' to Windows ME I assume... If you don't agree with Redmont, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. We still have a free choice. Use it as long as you can. From ecloud at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 10 03:25:23 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: ; from optimus@canit.se on Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 06:54:52AM +0100 References: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <20010110022523.F10847@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Wed, Jan 10, 2001 at 06:54:52AM +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > > OK, here is a very elementary question that has always > > stumped me. Is there any difference between an external > > SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard > > drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other > > computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after > > formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? > > The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. > Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC > Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple I fixed it by using SCSI Director. But that's "classic" software, not available new anymore. It can write a compatible firmware record to any SCSI drive. I'm not sure if this was just a means for Apple to sell drives; because according to some official Apple tech notes I read somewhere, it was necessary for a while for them to develop custom firmware for each drive. This firmware can be thought of as the device driver for that hard drive, part of the OS after a fasion. Maybe it took a while for hard drive manufacturers to figure out how to be interchangeable, so that a "universal" driver was possible? How new was the SCSI spec when Macs first started using it? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Free long distance at http://www.bigredwire.com/me/RefTrack?id=USA063420 From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 10 02:32:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: Jeff, Two syllables for you: "Pro" and "zac". Put them together and get some. Find a suitable newsgroup for your super strength flame-a-thon. On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > LET THEM EAT STOCK. > > Since Bush is going to be President (I'm fine with that though I voted for > Brown), I thought it important to remind folks that the Redmond > Washington-based company, Microsoft should be destroyed entirely. Those > employees not directly culpable are still guilty because they knew MS was > doing hateful things. Let them apply at SUN and see what they get. That > will be thier purgatory. Gates and his cronies should rot in jail. > > Gates built his empire on the suicides of those he destroyed. > > Bush is probably going to try to save MS from themselves and I hope he > fails utterly. Brown would have been even easier on MS than Bush, but he > supports most of what I believe in otherwise. Assume Brown won and I'd > write the same message. > > I'd like to see Bill Gates sentenced to prison for destroying individuals > who didn't like his products and who said so rather than for the > fabrication MS is being prosecuted for. The attacks were direct and > devastating. A huge multinational company targeted and destroyed many > careers in fear that competent, well-respected opinions might actually be > heard. > > The truth is far worse than anything DOJ has conjured up. The truth is > that if MS had not spent it's resources terrorizing individuals and > destroying other companies through deceit, theft, and violence, Microsoft > would not exist today. Aparently, no amount of resources expended by MS > would produce a decent operating system given the failures to date. > > Gates one day may catch a bullet from some Finnish guy 'on the dole' > because MS made the company he worked for 'fire' him for not toeing the > line. I don't think it is right, but I wouldn't wail at the funeral > either. > > If we don't get justice, I say we should ask the Chinese or the North > Koreans to take care of the problem for us. That way they would be able > to actually BUY thier OS/2 instead of burning thier own cd's. One Long > Dong with a 22kt warhead ought to do. > > My point is that Microsoft is not a company. It is a mafia. It should not > be split or otherwise reorganized but should be utterly and totally > destroyed. The ash should be mixed with concrete and used to create a > monument to freedom, democracy, free-trade, and particularly; the persuit > of excellence both technical and spiritual. A monument to remind us all of > how NOT to run a company and how NOT to do business. > > Microsoft - "The Jeffrey Dahmer of companies (TM)" > > Regards all, > > Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 10 04:38:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> References: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: >OK, here is a very elementary question that has always >stumped me. Is there any difference between an external >SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard >drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other >computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after >formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? > >For some reason or another, I have always had the >impression that Mac drives had something different about >them. And, they are always marketed separately. SCSI drives can be moved either direction, it's just that SCSI drives provided by Apple were 'blessed' by Apple with a ROM that provided additional information to the HD setup utility provided with the OS. Vendors of 3rd party drives that didn't have this ROM had to provide thier own formatting software specific to the drive or a generic formatting software such as FWB HD Toolbox (this was even provided as standard with a number of the Mac-clones, including those from Power Computing). The Apple ROM drives were still usable on non-Mac systems just fine. Thankfully, this type of thing is no longer done with the IDE drives used on the newer Mac's. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ncherry at home.net Wed Jan 10 05:57:35 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives References: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <3A5C4E2F.49032060@home.net> Louis Schulman wrote: > > OK, here is a very elementary question that has always > stumped me. Is there any difference between an external > SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard > drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other > computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after > formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? > > For some reason or another, I have always had the > impression that Mac drives had something different about > them. And, they are always marketed separately. > > Enquiring minds want to know..... > > Louis I mix and match them all the time (SCSI/SCSI-1/SCSI-2). I have MAC's and other machines. This it eh Narrow type of course, when you get into SCSI-3 or SCSI-2 wide I think things are a bit different. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 10 05:14:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Want to scrap/salvage: hi-tech equipment (populated circuit boards & equipment racks, chassies, etc.) In-Reply-To: <022501c07993$32265420$b2d5c33f@pacbell.net> Message-ID: >We are looking to salvage a quantity of populated circuit boards, 19" >equipment racks, smaller chassies and other various hi-tech equipment over >the next couple of weeks and need a salvage company that can work with us >-- Southern California. Talk to Gold'nwest Surplus, likely the ONLY salvage operation I would send anybody to. They are in Corona, but go all over. Dave Marks is "I think" the owner, the number is 909-340-1501. OTOH I think they just ship circuit boards off, I don't know if they do component level recovery. You might be better off buying a solder pot and doing the removal yourself, then pass the remains to a salvage operation. None that I can think of would be very willing to "subcontract" a portion of their activity. I live in Orange, Ca, and might be able to point you in some directions if you want to email me directly offlist. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Jan 10 06:22:45 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A5AF868.31396.493DE66@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:39:20 -0500 Lawrence Walker wrote: > > I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM XT-compatible? > Nope. I have about a 1/2 dozen of the IBM PC/XT K-Bs. Those > hefty beasts are my favorite k-b. Also a couple of the XT/AT switch > type. This Amstrad does have a 5-pin DIN, but the pins are > arranged differently than on the PC. Oh dear, how embarrassing, I was completely wrong. I had a look at the plug on the PC1512 at home, and of course it's a six-pin DIN plug. The outer pins in 270-degree layout and an extra pin in the centre. I worked with one of those machines in about 1986/7 but I'd assumed (wrongly) that the DIN plugs were standard. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 10 07:31:18 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D4C@TEGNTSERVER> > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > > > OK, here is a very elementary question that has always > > stumped me. Is there any difference between an external > > SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard > > drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other > > computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after > > formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? > > The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. > Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC > Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple > peculiarity would be its lack of support for remote start in > SCSI, so the hard drives will need to jumpered for automatic start on > power, but this won't affect other systems. Non-Apple drives work quite well with Macs; however, while your observation about the use of Apple's HD SC Utility is correct, all non-Apple SCSI drives sold *FOR* the Mac come with their own SCSI setup utility. For a SCSI drive *NOT* sold _for_ a Mac, you'd need a third-party toolkit like FWB' Hard Disk Tools (or whatever it's called). I've used it to add IBM and DEC SCSI drives to a Mac. regards, -dq From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Jan 10 07:41:04 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Laser 128 expansion port Message-ID: <82.55132d1.278dc070@aol.com> In a message dated 1/10/01 2:12:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, THETechnoid@home.com writes: << A recent message mentioned that the Laser 128 has an expansion port which can use Apple II cards. Is this accurate? If so, I think I'll dig my laser out and dog the hell out of it. I had no idea. BTW, anyone got a scsi card for Apple II they don't want or need? Regards, >> You are supposed to run the laser expansion box off that slot connector, but one time long ago i desperately needed another drive on my laser so i plugged in my disk ][ controller and it worked! its not very pretty hanging off the side, but its worth a try. anyway, i'm keeping my scsi card... From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 10 07:53:56 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: References: <200101100445.XAA23170@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110075246.0286d340@pc> At 06:54 AM 1/10/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC >Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. This also explains the after-market for Mac utilities that will happily format any company's SCSI drive. - John From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jan 10 08:34:10 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> References: <20010109070909.PLII17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010110063410.00972970@192.168.42.129> At 00:35 10-01-2001 -0500, THETechnoid wrote: And this is related to classic computers, how? Despite the fact that I have no great love for M$ myself, I'm going to limit my comments to this. If you want to expend time and effort venting against Billy-boy and the Redmondians, please put up a web page or something. I have far more important things I choose to concentrate on -- AND read about on this group. *PLONK!* -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 10 08:54:58 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D4C@TEGNTSERVER> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 10, 1 08:31:18 am" Message-ID: <200101101454.GAA12218@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Non-Apple drives work quite well with Macs; however, while your > observation about the use of Apple's HD SC Utility is correct, > all non-Apple SCSI drives sold *FOR* the Mac come with their > own SCSI setup utility. > > For a SCSI drive *NOT* sold _for_ a Mac, you'd need a third-party > toolkit like FWB' Hard Disk Tools (or whatever it's called). I've > used it to add IBM and DEC SCSI drives to a Mac. You can also use a version of HDSC Setup which has been ResEdit-hacked to disable the Apple branding restriction. I have it myself, but a far better collection is this one: http://www.accesscom.com/~gamba/superbooter2.html Although it boots on 68K only, it contains both stock and patched HDSC 7.3.5, Disk First Aid 7.2.2, and an .sea of MicroNet Utility 7.2.7 (unpack it to a RAM disk, included with the AppDisk 1.6.1 app on the disk) for those absolutely stubborn drives that can't be formatted or repartitioned with the other tools. It's now my hard disk toolkit of choice. Use it by itself, or steal the tools on it for your own personal Disk Tools. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you think ignorance is expensive, try education. ------------------------ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 10 09:04:12 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: References: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110085417.027b7100@pc> At 12:32 AM 1/10/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Two syllables for you: "Pro" and "zac". Put them together and get some. Prozac is for depression, not obsession, mania, paranoia, or even weak logic. I'm still eagerly awaiting the release of Microsoft Linux. They could leverage all the work of the ranting maniacs out there (effectively tapping the wages paid by other companies, as the Linux market does now), open source very little if nothing, port the Office suite and presto, they could give away an OS and continue to sell apps. With .NET, they'll completely blur the line between OS and app nonetheless. All hail the subscription model! With $400 MSN discounts appearing on every PC in the retail chain, and ads touting $150 (with MSN discount) computers, how far are we from "free Microsoft computers"? No doubt Apple is thinking the same thing with OS X: it's portable between machines and it can begin to leverage all the code-work of all the "free" programmers. For the classic connection, I firmly believe there will always be a way to drop to a DOS prompt. - John From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 10 09:14:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D4C@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > > > > > OK, here is a very elementary question that has always > > > stumped me. Is there any difference between an external > > > SCSI hard drive made for a Mac and a generic SCSI hard > > > drive? Can I hook up a Mac SCSI hard drive to some other > > > computer with a SCSI interface and expect it to work (after > > > formatting, of course)? What about the other way around? > > > > The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. > > Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC > > Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple > > peculiarity would be its lack of support for remote start in > > SCSI, so the hard drives will need to jumpered for automatic start on > > power, but this won't affect other systems. > > Non-Apple drives work quite well with Macs; however, while your > observation about the use of Apple's HD SC Utility is correct, > all non-Apple SCSI drives sold *FOR* the Mac come with their > own SCSI setup utility. Granted, I forgot to mention that there are other SCSI setup utilities, but why in the world would one need to buy a drive /for/ a particular brand of computer? A hard drive is a hard drive is a hard drive. > For a SCSI drive *NOT* sold _for_ a Mac, you'd need a third-party > toolkit like FWB' Hard Disk Tools (or whatever it's called). I've > used it to add IBM and DEC SCSI drives to a Mac. I've got an Apple-edition IBM drive in a IIcx here. =) From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 10 09:15:50 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: a little TI Message-ID: <00de01c07b18$38d55330$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> Hi gang and Happy New Year, It's great when you can rummage in one of your own piles and find something new... (Thanks Alzheimer's) Where'd that come from... ;) Anyway. I found a TI TM990/101MA card that's about 11x6 inches and can be seen at: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/ti01.jpg I guess this came out of a 990 mini but it looks like everything is there to use it as a sbc. It's got jumpers for terminal/modem,bank,ram,eprom select and a few more. Google and dogpile didn't turn up anything and I'm looking for the pin specs for the connector edges, power requirements and any other info anyone might have. Also, while on the subject.... I have an extra TI TM990/U89 that I'd like to trade for a TI TM990/189 with someone in a complimentary position. Email me off list if interested. Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 10 09:28:36 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110085417.027b7100@pc> from John Foust at "Jan 10, 1 09:04:12 am" Message-ID: <200101101528.HAA11646@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > For the classic connection, I firmly believe there will always > be a way to drop to a DOS prompt. Of course, we could just all use machines that are CLI by default anyway. Hence the C64 on my desk. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What is THIS man doing here?! -- Maj. Hochstetter, "Hogan's Heroes" -------- From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Jan 10 10:42:12 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <3A5C1129.94251264@eoni.com> Message-ID: > Spent the day 'upgrading' to Windows ME I assume... > ...or RE installing Win2k for the Nth time... g. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Jan 10 10:01:48 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: a little TI In-Reply-To: <00de01c07b18$38d55330$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Mike wrote: > Hi gang and Happy New Year, > > It's great when you can rummage in one of your own piles and find something > new... (Thanks Alzheimer's) Where'd that come from... ;) > > Anyway. I found a TI TM990/101MA card that's about 11x6 inches and can be > seen at: > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/ti01.jpg > > I guess this came out of a 990 mini but it looks like everything is there to > use it as a sbc. It's got jumpers for terminal/modem,bank,ram,eprom select > and a few more. Google and dogpile didn't turn up anything and I'm looking > for the pin specs for the connector edges, power requirements and any other > info anyone might have. > > Also, while on the subject.... I have an extra TI TM990/U89 that I'd like > to trade for a TI TM990/189 with someone in a complimentary position. > Email me off list if interested. > > Cheers > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > Well, there were things such as the 990/602 development system which used these 100 pin boards. The 990/4, 10, /12 use a different physical bus, and I don't think the TM990 bus supports TILINE. CRU, yes. The boards for 990 minis have two fingers instead of the single, 100-pin, finger of the TM990 cards. I have a VPU200 programmer for the 5TI sequencer which uses TM990 boards. I don't have any specs, manuals, or software, though. The Nov. '82 issue of Home Computer Magazine has a description and a few minimal photos of the 990/602. It's archived at ftp://ftp.whtech.com/magazines/99er/99er8211.max jbdigriz From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 10 09:51:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Laser 128 expansion port In-Reply-To: <82.55132d1.278dc070@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > You are supposed to run the laser expansion box off that slot > connector, but one time long ago i desperately needed another drive on > my laser so i plugged in my disk ][ controller and it worked! its not > very pretty hanging off the side, but its worth a try. anyway, i'm > keeping my scsi card... I guess that makes sense. I think my friend was just using it as a slot to run whatever card he was running from it. It was flimsy but it worked. The expansion chassis is just a bus that physically extends the signals. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 10 11:11:35 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D4E@TEGNTSERVER> > > > The first alternative works very well indeed. The second won't, though. > > > Macs use hard drives with a particular Apple firmware, without which HD SC > > > Utility won't recognise the drive. Bloody stupid. Another Apple > > > peculiarity would be its lack of support for remote start in > > > SCSI, so the hard drives will need to jumpered for automatic start on > > > power, but this won't affect other systems. > > > > Non-Apple drives work quite well with Macs; however, while your > > observation about the use of Apple's HD SC Utility is correct, > > all non-Apple SCSI drives sold *FOR* the Mac come with their > > own SCSI setup utility. > > Granted, I forgot to mention that there are other SCSI setup utilities, > but why in the world would one need to buy a drive /for/ a particular > brand of computer? A hard drive is a hard drive is a hard drive. Because the computer manufacturer's engineers, in their infinite wisdom, decided their computer needed feature ... For Pr1me minis, hard drives have to be able to support a sector size of 2080 bytes, instead of or in addition to the usual 512-byte sector support. With Apple, their *first* hard drive (a non-SCSI unit) had things called disk tags that required drives that support a sector size of 576 bytes (from memory, probably wrong). I'm not defending the practice; while I assumed your remark was rhetorical, not everyone in the audience may be as well-informed as we are. > > For a SCSI drive *NOT* sold _for_ a Mac, you'd need a third-party > > toolkit like FWB' Hard Disk Tools (or whatever it's called). I've > > used it to add IBM and DEC SCSI drives to a Mac. > > I've got an Apple-edition IBM drive in a IIcx here. =) I've got one of those, too, and it looks *just* like the non-Apple edition. Scary... -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 10 11:12:19 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel digital storage oscilloscope. I think I'd like to check it checked out by a repair service to confirm whether all its functions are working or not. Can anyone recommend a service for this? I don't need a full NBS certification, just a check-out. - John From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 10 12:07:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010110064038.FBLO17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <20010109070909.PLII17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: Didn't you clog the list up enough with this nonsense between April 5th and April 17th of last year. Sure no one around here likes M$, but take it elsewhere. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 10 12:44:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jan 10, 1 12:22:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1599 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010110/2330254e/attachment.ksh From ss at allegro.com Wed Jan 10 12:42:49 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D4C@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: <3A5C3CA9.21670.13B129BB@localhost> Iggy asks: > Granted, I forgot to mention that there are other SCSI setup utilities, > but why in the world would one need to buy a drive /for/ a particular > brand of computer? A hard drive is a hard drive is a hard drive. Although they don't make them now, that wasn't always true for HP drives. They claimed to have a (patented?) method of ensuring that if power failed during a wite to a drive, no partial sector would be written. (This feature as called "sector atomicity".) This was useful on their early/mid-1990s PA-RISC systems (HP 3000, HP 9000) that had battery backup for the system memory. A short (15 minutes or less) power outage wouldn't kill the system. As the bean-counters took over, and dropped the internal batteries (saving a small number of $$), HP stopped producing this kind of system (instead, they started selling UPS for the entire system) and they stopped making that kind of disk drive. Towards the end, they were using Seagate (and Quantum?) drives with HP firmware. (Note that I'm not claiming that it *worked*, nor that other drives were really more likely to write a partial sector during a power fail!) Now, "sector atomicity" is a forgotten phrase in HP, along with other ideas like "the HP Way" :( Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 10 13:48:04 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: a little TI References: Message-ID: <004f01c07b3e$40f264b0$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> From: James B. DiGriz > I have a VPU200 programmer for the 5TI sequencer which uses TM990 > boards. I don't have any specs, manuals, or software, though. Thanks for the info. What other boards are in your VPU200? > The Nov. '82 issue of Home Computer Magazine has a description and a few > minimal photos of the 990/602. It's archived at > ftp://ftp.whtech.com/magazines/99er/99er8211.max What's the *.max extension ^ ? From MTPro at aol.com Wed Jan 10 14:22:16 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Solbourne Sun workalike for free Message-ID: Hello, here is someone looking to get rid of some stuff! Please respond directly to him. Best, David David Greelish Publisher Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com From: scott@aptest.com (D. Scott Secor) I was curious whether you might know of a deserving organization that would want a Solbourne model 6/500 (Sun workalike) dual processor server in roll-around cabinet. Processor boards were checked by Grumman two years ago after system was taken out of service. Original cost in early 1990's was over $60K. Regards, Scott Secor secor@mn.rr.com y2k@uswest.net From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Jan 10 15:09:22 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: References: from "John Honniball" at Jan 10, 1 12:22:45 pm Message-ID: <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:39:20 -0500 Lawrence Walker > > wrote: > > > > I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM XT-compatible? > > > > > Nope. I have about a 1/2 dozen of the IBM PC/XT K-Bs. Those > > > hefty beasts are my favorite k-b. Also a couple of the XT/AT > > > switch type. This Amstrad does have a 5-pin DIN, but the pins are > > > arranged differently than on the PC. > > > > Oh dear, how embarrassing, I was completely wrong. I had a > > look at the plug on the PC1512 at home, and of course it's > > a six-pin DIN plug. The outer pins in 270-degree layout > > and an extra pin in the centre. I worked with one of those > > That is, of course, a standard 6 pin DIN plug. > > I know that Amstrad used that connector on the PC2086 (later XT clone > with VGA graphics on the motherboard) -- I have that machine and the > service manual. The 6 pins on the plug were the standard 4 lines of an > XT keyboard (+5V, ground, clock, data -- I have no idea if the data > protocol was the same as IBMs) and 2 pins that were for the mouse > buttons. The mouse plugged into the system unit, the button signals > (grounded by microswtiches in the mouse when the button was pressed) > were sent down the keyboard cable, detected by the microcontroller in > the keyboard and sent back to the system as key up/down messages. > The connection on the side for the mouse is a DE-9. Are you saying it wouldn't function without a K-B. If so, is the mouse also proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this 1640HD20 and I just tossed it in my mouse box among the multitude of others figuring it was standard. Was this likely not the original mouse ? Since it won't start up w/o a K-B I haven't been able to check the HD for configuration, altho the HD does seem to work. > My 2086 came without a mouse. I converted an clone mouse for an Atari > ST (IIRC -- it was just a plain 2 button quadrature output mouse), and > thus got to find out what the signals were and where they went. > > I have no idea if the PC1512 is like this, but it might be. > > -tony > One of my ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch to change it to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and DB15 connectors and a switch to change between Apple IIe and PC. There was a box from Practical Peripherals called Mouse- Master to switch between STs and Amigas. Seems like it shouldn't be too difficult to make an all-purpose connection box for different platforms. I also have a 4+4-input 1+1 output ABCD box, to use a single mouse and K-B with multiple systems, that are readily available, which would simplify the project. Any "gotcha's" in this scenario ? ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Jan 10 15:36:49 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: a little TI In-Reply-To: <004f01c07b3e$40f264b0$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Mike wrote: > Received: from localhost (jbdigriz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by dragonsweb.darktech.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id > f0AKH0e13197 > for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:17:00 -0500 > Received: from dragonsweb.org > by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.1.2) > for jbdigriz@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:17:00 -0500 (EST) > Received: by multi34.netcomi.com for jbdigriz > (with Netcom Interactive pop3d (v1.21.1 1998/05/07) Wed Jan 10 20:12:26 > 2001) > X-From_: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org Wed Jan 10 14:09:57 2001 > Received: from opal.tseinc.com (opal.tseinc.com [209.83.143.19]) > by multi34.netcomi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16000 > for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:09:57 -0600 > Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA90102 > for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-outgoing; Wed, > 10 Jan 2001 13:48:10 -0600 (CST) > (envelope-from owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org) > X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to > owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org using -f > Received: from mail0.lig.bellsouth.net (mail0.lig.bellsouth.net > [205.152.0.90]) > by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA90097 > for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:48:09 -0600 (CST) > (envelope-from dogas@bellsouth.net) > Received: from dogserver (host-216-78-120-71.sav.bellsouth.net > [216.78.120.71]) > by mail0.lig.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with SMTP id OAA20364 > for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:48:08 -0500 (EST) > Message-ID: <004f01c07b3e$40f264b0$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> > From: Mike > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > References: > > Subject: Re: a little TI > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:48:04 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > From: James B. DiGriz > > > I have a VPU200 programmer for the 5TI sequencer which uses TM990 > > boards. I don't have any specs, manuals, or software, though. > > Thanks for the info. What other boards are in your VPU200? > Have to get back to you on that. Presumably a CRT controller, Ram board, disk controller, and some i/o. It has a CRU port, 5TI port, PC(serial) and printer ports on the back of the case. The display and a 360K full-height 5-1/4" floppy are built in to the case, the keyboard in the lid. The whole thing is close to 50 lbs. There's another model of the VPU200, the -3104, that has a 192tpi 3meg 5-1/4" floppy. That might be an interesting controller board and drive to find. There seem to have been some reliability issues with them, though. >The Nov. '82 issue of Home Computer Magazine has a description and a few > > minimal photos of the 990/602. It's archived at > > ftp://ftp.whtech.com/magazines/99er/99er8211.max > > What's the *.max extension ^ ? > > The Visioneer PaperPort scanner proprietary format. There's no linux port of the software or the viewer, but the free windows viewer is on the ftp.whtech.com site. Dunno about Mac. jbdigriz From rdd at smart.net Wed Jan 10 16:01:18 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, John Foust wrote: > Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel > digital storage oscilloscope. > > I think I'd like to check it checked out by a repair > service to confirm whether all its functions are working or not. Doesn't the manual for the Tek 2230 cover calibration procedures? The manual for my 531A provides step-by-step details on how to calibrate it. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 10 16:17:38 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110161713.02839150@pc> At 05:01 PM 1/10/01 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: >On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, John Foust wrote: >> Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel >> digital storage oscilloscope. > >Doesn't the manual for the Tek 2230 cover calibration procedures? I only have the pocket "Using" guide, not the full manual. - John From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Jan 10 16:15:41 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: a little TI In-Reply-To: <004f01c07b3e$40f264b0$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3A5C98BD.28630.41615F2@localhost> > From: James B. DiGriz > > > I have a VPU200 programmer for the 5TI sequencer which uses TM990 > > boards. I don't have any specs, manuals, or software, though. > > Thanks for the info. What other boards are in your VPU200? > > > The Nov. '82 issue of Home Computer Magazine has a description and a > > few minimal photos of the 990/602. It's archived at > > ftp://ftp.whtech.com/magazines/99er/99er8211.max > > What's the *.max extension ^ ? > > Wow !! The definitive archive for TI's. Don't know why I never found this before. Thanks, this extends the life of my TI99/4 which I was beginning to think was superfluous to my collection. In case this wasn't answered already, .max is the extension for the Paperport Viewer files. Seems to be an Acrobat type viewer and is also available onsite. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Jan 10 16:31:40 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: "Lawrence Walker" "Re: Amstrad PC1640HD20" (Jan 10, 16:09) References: from "John Honniball" at Jan 10 1 12:22:45 pm <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> Message-ID: <10101102231.ZM576@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 10, 16:09, Lawrence Walker wrote: > One of my ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch to change it > to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and > DB15 connectors and a switch to change between Apple IIe and > PC. There was a box from Practical Peripherals called Mouse- > Master to switch between STs and Amigas. Seems like it shouldn't > be too difficult to make an all-purpose connection box for different > platforms. I also have a 4+4-input 1+1 output ABCD box, to use a > single mouse and K-B with multiple systems, that are readily > available, which would simplify the project. Any "gotcha's" in this > scenario ? The obvious one is the protocol. Or rather protocols, since there are so many. PS/2, PC serial, SGI serial, etc are all different. However, if you're talking about basic quadrature mice that simply output X, X', Y, and Y' pulses, your idea should work. Add a PIC and some software and you could handle the other types, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 10 16:42:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: <002201c07b56$b5023ac0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> A Tektronix service technician once advised me that unless I needed the NIST Certification, the way to get my 'scope tuned up and adjusted not just to within spec's but to the "best" adjustment possible, I should just have it "cleaned." This gets the potentiometers and the various switches and contacts cleaned and gets everything tweaked. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:12 AM Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out > > Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel > digital storage oscilloscope. > > I think I'd like to check it checked out by a repair > service to confirm whether all its functions are working or not. > > Can anyone recommend a service for this? I don't need a > full NBS certification, just a check-out. > > - John > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 10 16:48:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20010110161713.02839150@pc> Message-ID: <003a01c07b57$837dba00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've had my TEK 465 for over twenty years, yet it's never needed any sort of adjustment. It's likely that solid-state equipment like this will stay in adjustment for many years, unlike the preceeding generation of vaccuum tube equipment, much more influenced by mechanical and particularly thermal stresses. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Tek 2230 'scope check-out > At 05:01 PM 1/10/01 -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: > >On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, John Foust wrote: > >> Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel > >> digital storage oscilloscope. > > > >Doesn't the manual for the Tek 2230 cover calibration procedures? > > I only have the pocket "Using" guide, not the full manual. > > - John > > From peter at joules.org Wed Jan 10 17:22:32 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> References: <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> Message-ID: <01011023270800.01098@pluto.joules.org> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, you wrote: > The connection on the side for the mouse is a DE-9. Are you > saying it wouldn't function without a K-B. If so, is the mouse also > proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this 1640HD20 and I > just tossed it in my mouse box among the multitude of others > figuring it was standard. Was this likely not the original mouse ? > The Amstrad mouse was almost triangular in shape both in planform and side view, and had 2 oblong grey buttons on it. I have one somewhere but I haven't got most of my collection sorted out yet because we moved house 6 months ago. I have only just got our new house networked, sorting out the 2 spare bed^H^H^Hcomputer rooms comes next. -- Regards Pete From mbg at world.std.com Wed Jan 10 17:24:58 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <200101102324.SAA00618@world.std.com> >> Spent the day 'upgrading' to Windows ME I assume... > >If you don't agree with Redmont, I suggest you put your money where your >mouth is. We still have a free choice. Use it as long as you can. I do... I have Linux on all my PCs... I read a report earlier today in which teh president and CEO of M$ declared that Linux was the #1 threat to the company as they enter the new year... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 10 17:48:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 10, 1 04:09:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4355 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010110/13e42238/attachment.ksh From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 10 18:10:34 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <200101102324.SAA00618@world.std.com> Message-ID: <20010111001758.SLLM1118.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I'm running and have been running OS/2 since I got my first clone PC in 1992. Never did Windows but for servicing it for others. I just bought EcomStation, the latest version of the OS/2 operating system from Serenity Systems. The reason Linux is such a threat is not that it is so great. It is good at most things and great at some things, but mostly, it is dirt cheap. More important than price by far is that Microsoft has no one person or group to target. The Linux distribution method ensures its survival no matter what draconian measures MS would use to kill it. It must be frustrating to MS to be beat by a bunch of kids with a free C compiler. If Linux were 'owned', we would never have heard of it. The author would either become quietly rich and the product buried, or the product and the author would have been quietly buried. Probably the latter and probably in concrete. Regards, Jeff In <200101102324.SAA00618@world.std.com>, on 01/10/01 at 07:10 PM, Megan said: >I do... I have Linux on all my PCs... >I read a report earlier today in which teh president and CEO of M$ >declared that Linux was the #1 threat to the company as they enter the >new year... > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 10 18:04:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A Message-ID: I just picked up an NEC Multisync Color Monitor model JC-1401P3A at a thrift store today for $8. It has one DA-9 connector on the back, plus a few switches for selecting RGB or color depth (I guess?), plus a digital/analog switch. I didn't have a chance to test it other than to turn it on and verify that it had a raster. I figured for $8 I couldn't go too terribly wrong. Is this a good all around display for use with different machines? It doesn't have any composite input however. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 10 19:38:21 2001 From: bluesky6 at ix.netcom.com (Ben) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Getting a DG MV2000. What do I need? Message-ID: <7k3q5to3ohvkj5hv57l5a6ckarvl4erec1@4ax.com> Hi folks, I'm back on the list after 3 years of absence. I'm getting a DG MV2000 machine. It is apparently working. I would like to know what additional stuff do I need to get a 100% working system. The guy selling it is talking about floppy drives and terminals. Should I get at least one terminal and the drives? Thanks. Ben From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 10 19:08:14 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: >Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel >digital storage oscilloscope. > >I think I'd like to check it checked out by a repair >service to confirm whether all its functions are working or not. Why? I am guessing you will be out $50 to $100, and thats assuming its fine and needs no "adjustment". I would just use it, wouldn't most problems be fairly obvious? From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 10 19:40:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I just picked up an NEC Multisync Color Monitor model JC-1401P3A at a >thrift store today for $8. I believe this is the original Multisync monitor and will do both CGA and EGA resolutions in digital mode and upt to 640 x 480 in analog mode. I've also had good luck with that monitor syncing to some oddball frequencies like the 26.4 khz rate of the TRS-80 Model 2000's digital output. It should also be a good choice for syncing to the native Amiga 15 khz analog video modes with the appropriate cable. Overall, I'd say it is quite a flexible monitor even without the composite inputs. At one point, the cables to connect it to either 9pin digital CGA/EGA or 15pin VGA were fairly easy to get, but that was 12-13 years ago. For use with CGA/EGA video input, it should be a straight-thru DB-9 cable. Definately worth the $8. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 10 19:10:13 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives In-Reply-To: <3A5C3CA9.21670.13B129BB@localhost> Message-ID: <1518.411T650T1304731optimus@canit.se> Stan Sieler skrev: >Iggy asks: >> Granted, I forgot to mention that there are other SCSI setup utilities, >> but why in the world would one need to buy a drive /for/ a particular >> brand of computer? A hard drive is a hard drive is a hard drive. >Although they don't make them now, that wasn't always true for HP drives. >They claimed to have a (patented?) method of ensuring that if power failed >during a wite to a drive, no partial sector would be written. (This feature >as called "sector atomicity".) This was useful on their early/mid-1990s >PA-RISC systems (HP 3000, HP 9000) that had battery backup for the system >memory. A short (15 minutes or less) power outage wouldn't kill the system. >As the bean-counters took over, and dropped the internal batteries (saving a >small number of $$), HP stopped producing this kind of system (instead, they >started selling UPS for the entire system) and they stopped making that kind >of disk drive. Towards the end, they were using Seagate (and Quantum?) >drives with HP firmware. >Now, "sector atomicity" is a forgotten phrase in HP, along with other ideas >like "the HP Way" :( The file system I'm using right now, SFS (Smart Filesystem), has got sector atomicity, but instead, it's handled on a filesystem level as opposed to hardware. That memory backup thing does seem useful, tough. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Schont die Sockel, wenn ihr die Denkm?ler st?rzt. Sie k?nnten noch gebraucht werden. --- Stanislaw Jerzy Lec From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 10 19:48:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A References: Message-ID: <001e01c07b70$ad5ed200$1192fea9@idcomm.com> You can ignore the switches, at least until everything's in order. It's really an analog monitor, and I've no idea what the switches are intended to do. Tht connector, if it's like the one in the basement, is a DE-9. There are plenty of adapters floating around, by the way, to make it run from a VGA. It was, originally, called an EGA type. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 5:04 PM Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A > > I just picked up an NEC Multisync Color Monitor model JC-1401P3A at a > thrift store today for $8. > > It has one DA-9 connector on the back, plus a few switches for selecting > RGB or color depth (I guess?), plus a digital/analog switch. I didn't > have a chance to test it other than to turn it on and verify that it had a > raster. I figured for $8 I couldn't go too terribly wrong. > > Is this a good all around display for use with different machines? It > doesn't have any composite input however. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 10 19:45:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <200101102324.SAA00618@world.std.com> Message-ID: <001d01c07b70$ad24d640$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Please see comments embedded below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:24 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > >> Spent the day 'upgrading' to Windows ME I assume... > > > >If you don't agree with Redmont, I suggest you put your money where your > >mouth is. We still have a free choice. Use it as long as you can. > > I do... I have Linux on all my PCs... > > I read a report earlier today in which teh president and CEO of M$ > declared that Linux was the #1 threat to the company as they enter > the new year... > That's certainly true ... OS/2 or whatever it's called these days certainly isn't a threat. Linux won't be much of a threat until some of the documentation is brought into synchronization with the software in current usage. Right now there's about a 5-year gap between the most current documentation and the software in common useage. This is the result of the fact that programmers, generally, don't write documentation. Most don't because they don't like to do that, because they write poorly, and others don't attempt it because they can't write at all. If you have any question about that, just look at the code you have to put together in order to build a Linux system. When we were putting id communications together, we used several fairly up-to-date and generally accepted as "best-available" comm modules, and found them to be extremely poorly written, devoid of built-in documentation that was relevant to the code, and, though quite functional, obviously impenetrable, largely because the comments were from v0.01 while the current released version was about v23.42. There's no chance that anyone will be able to bring documentation for code maintained like that up to date since it's totally unreadable, and impossible to understand based on all the misleading and sometimes totally incorrect comments. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jan 10 18:10:05 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010110180738.0197d360@208.226.86.10> At 04:04 PM 1/10/2001 -0800, Sellam wrote: >I just picked up an NEC Multisync Color Monitor model JC-1401P3A at a >thrift store today for $8. I've got one of these too! I remembered it from my days at Intel when we thought no one could be able to produce a multi-sync for less than $1000 and NEC did it for $999. Its very flexible and built pretty sturdily. I will also sync on things LESS than 15Khz horizontal and that makes it pretty cool. I've been meaning to make a multiheaded connector for it so that it can be my generic "test" monitor. --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 10 20:39:15 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:06 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010110180738.0197d360@208.226.86.10> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010110180738.0197d360@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >I've got one of these too! I remembered it from my days at Intel >when we thought no one could be able to produce a multi-sync for >less than $1000 and NEC did it for $999. Its very flexible and built >pretty sturdily. I will also sync on things LESS than 15Khz >horizontal and that makes it pretty cool. I've been meaning to make >a multiheaded connector for it so that it can be my generic "test" >monitor. I finally found an entry at NEC's website for the monitor to doublecheck my memory on it...had to dig quite a bit! According to NEC's site it will do: QuickSpecs MultiSync Model JC-1401P3A Introduced October, 1985 Non-Current September 1987 Screen 14.0-inch (13.0" viewable image size) CRT 0.31 mm Dot Trio Max. Resolution 800 x 560 @ 56Hz Horizontal Freq 15.5 kHz to 35 kHz I at one point had both this monitor and the greyscale version of it. The Multisync GS was considerably cheaper than it's color counterpart at the time and had a really sharp image and would still do both the digital and analog inputs. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 10 21:10:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Tek 2230 'scope check-out In-Reply-To: Re: Tek 2230 'scope check-out (Mike Ford) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: <14941.9234.495562.667766@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 10, Mike Ford wrote: > >Last summer I picked up a Tek 2230, a 100 MHz two-channel > >digital storage oscilloscope. > > > >I think I'd like to check it checked out by a repair > >service to confirm whether all its functions are working or not. > > Why? I am guessing you will be out $50 to $100, and thats assuming its fine > and needs no "adjustment". > > I would just use it, wouldn't most problems be fairly obvious? This is a good point, especially with a DSO. Except for the analog stuff in the very front-end...isolation, maybe a preamp, and some attenuator hardware...the only things that I can think of in most simpler DSOs that might require adjustment would be the time base and the sweep alignment & linearity stuff. Tek DSOs are pretty solid; I'd bet that, if it's basically functional, it's in good shape. -Dave McGuire From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Jan 10 21:34:33 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: References: <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 10, 1 04:09:22 pm Message-ID: <3A5CE379.9622.53A110E@localhost> > > The connection on the side for the mouse is a DE-9. Are you > > Same on the PC2086 > > > saying it wouldn't function without a K-B. If so, is the mouse also > > The movement will work, the buttons won't. The quadrature signals from > the movement sensors go to one of the ASICs on the motherboard, the > button signals go to the keyboard. > > > proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this 1640HD20 and I > > It's a quadrature output mouse, like an ST mouse, an Amiga mouse, PERQ > 3a mouse, PC bus mouse, original (pre ADB) Mac mouse and so on. The > connector pinout is specific to the Amstrad. > > Does that make it 'proprietry'? You can't plug in a normal PC serial > mouse (the mouse port is not a serial port, or a PS/2 mouse port). And > you'd have to rewire the connector [1] to use another quadrature mouse > on the Amstrad. But it is the standard TTL level quadrature signals as > used on many classic computers. > > [1] This is something that never worries me.... > > > just tossed it in my mouse box among the multitude of others > > figuring it was standard. Was this likely not the original mouse ? > > If it's 3 button then it's not the original mouse. Does it have any > maker's name on it? Have you openned it up to see if it appears to be > quadrature output or if it has an internal microcontroller (and thus > is some kind of serial mouse). How many wires are used in the > interface cable? > The mouse is labelled Memorex. I haven't taken it apart yet since in any case I don't yet have the K-B to see whether it is functioning or not. > AFAIK you can use a normal serial mouse with the Amstrad (if you load > the right drivers) but you plug such a mouse into the serial port and > not into the mouse connector. > Perhaps that's how it was connected. But I see that the serial socket is a male 25pin and generally when someone tosses these they just leave the adapter on the puter or on the device. It could be incidental that the mouse just happened to be tossed at the same time. >> My ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch to change it > ^^^^^^^ > meeces ? > > > to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and > > Yes, the real difference between Atari ST and amiga mice is the wiring > of the connector. Rearranging the wires (which is what the switch > does) will let the same mouse work on both machines). > > A few years ago, Maplin (a UK hobbyist electronic component shop) sold > replacement mice for the ST and Amiga. One was 2 button, the other was > 3 button. I used them as replacement mice on all sorts of machines > (the Amstrad PC2086, the Mac+, Acorn Archimedes, etc) just by > replacing the connector (and wiring it appropriately). Alas you can no > longer get these very useful mice, just the much less useful PC serial > type, which work on almost no machines that I have. > I have always snatched up any preADB mice I came across and so have about a 1/2 doz. of these. Ditto for strange K-Bs which came in handy for a bare Tandy 1000 I acquired. I had 2 of these hard to find beasts. I have an Atari with an RJ11 connector waiting for whatever it originally came with ( a TTxx ?) > One day I must program a microcontroller to talk to a PC serial mouse > and give out quadrature signals on the other side so I can use a PC > serial mouse with many of my classic computers. > > > DB15 connectors and a switch to change between Apple IIe and > > PC. There was a box from Practical Peripherals called Mouse- > > Actually, the PC joystick port and the Apple ][ (//e, etc) joystick > port are electrically very similar. Both are based on the 558 chip (== > quad 555, all 4 timers hardwired to monostable mode, approximately), > and thus both need variable resistors between the joystick inputs and > Vcc. So it's not suprising that the same joystick could work with > both. > > Some other machines have true A-to-D converters for the joystick ports > and want to see a changing voltage, not a changing resistance, at the > joystick input. Of the top of my head, the Vectrex, Tandy CoCo (and Ahh so that explain the desirability of the Co-Co joysticks which otherwise are pretty flimsy and not especially well designed. > Dragon), some models of Tandy 1000, Tatung Einstein, BBC micro, etc > are like this. Converting a variable-resistor joystick (like a PC > joystick) to work with one of these machines is a little more 'fun', > especially if only 2 terminals of the variable resistor in the > joystick are available (so it can't be rewired as a potentiometer to > give a varying voltage). A few op-amps will solve the problem, though. > > -tony > In looking at the rear of the Amstrad I also noticed it has a bank of 10 switches labelled "display selector". This is curious since the display is integral to it. What would you "sellect" with this ? ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From rdd at smart.net Wed Jan 10 22:33:20 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010111001758.SLLM1118.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: [re: Linux] > matter what draconian measures MS would use to kill it. It must be > frustrating to MS to be beat by a bunch of kids with a free C compiler. Remember, much of Linux wasn't created by the Linux crowd; that is, all of the utilities, that C compiler, etc. all came from the Free Software Foundation's GNU stuff. Let's not overlook other threats to Microsoft, such as all of the other flavors of UNIX, and BDSI, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD, some which are also free and perhaps more robust than Linux. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jan 10 22:25:20 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010111001758.SLLM1118.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci22322 9-a> References: <200101102324.SAA00618@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110200950.00b61d60@pacbell.net> At 07:10 PM 1/10/01 -0500, THETechnoid wrote: >I'm running and have been running OS/2 since I got my first clone PC in >1992. Never did Windows but for servicing it for others. I just bought >EcomStation, the latest version of the OS/2 operating system from Serenity >Systems. Surely you must see the contradiction is having such an extreme position on Microsoft and using an OS that was originally written by the same company. I'm sure it has evolved quite a bit since MS gave up control of it to IBM in 1990, but if you take out the OS/2 box that you were using in 1992 I'll bet you can still smell Bill's greasy fingers on it. No, to be really clean, you should be using a different OS. Yes, something more unix. Ignore these johnnies come lately, go to the true innovator, the first unix on a PC: run Xenix. Damn. Microsoft did that one too. Here's a link with a pretty extensive timeline of MS OS developments: http://www.powerload.fsnet.co.uk/timeline.htm ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Jan 10 22:34:57 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: "Real" emulation... In-Reply-To: <003101c079e7$bc374940$8a789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110202528.00b6e920@pacbell.net> At 09:46 PM 1/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Jim Battle > > > >For instance, the first version of the emulator would convert each > >windows keystroke into an emulated "strobe" of a keystroke register. > >But then my first user noted a discrepancy in a program he tried. > > ... Thus, one keystroke can appear twice > >in these circumstances. >... It could be if someone was reading keystokes on the fly >something bad can occur but not reading the key pressed status first is >bad programming. You are absolutely on the mark -- the test program that exposed this did read the key code before clearing the flag. >... > >Now for an example of behavior I'm not going to bother with. > >The Sol keyboard has infinite key rollover. >... >No it didn't. The encoder may have had Nkey rollover but it was anything >but >infinite. There was at best one byte of buffereing. If you read the >buffer fast >enough you can stay mostly ahead of it but most software of the time >didn't >buffer what it got so the last key read was it. I guess we should distinguish between how many keys of buffering it has vs rollover. The Sol keyboard can latch only one keystroke. However, there is a small RAM on the keyboard that maintains per-key state. You can press each key and not release it until all other keys are pressed and each will emit a single keystroke. I was using a bit of hyperbole by saying infinite rollover. Things get really weird when the REPEAT key is held down. It inhibits scanning for new keys and simply repeats the most recent key over and over. But if you release that most recent key, then the next one it reports depends not on the order it was pressed, but the order the keyboard circuit scans the keyboard. I went through the circuit in detail in order to emulate it, but decided against doing a full-out emulation since it didn't matter, it wouldn't be trivial, and it wouldn't really be noticed. A perfect emulation isn't possible for other reasons anyway. On the Sol keyboard, "@" is an unshifted key. CTRL-@ produced a 0x00 code. On the PC keyboard (mine, anyway), @ is above the 2. So the emulator specificially looks for SHIFT-CTRL-2 and emits 0x00 in that case. So far, so good. But on the Sol, CTRL-2 and SHIFT-CTRL-2 both produce 0x02. I can't have both. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Jan 10 22:58:23 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A5CF71F.20447.586D4D5@localhost> > > I just picked up an NEC Multisync Color Monitor model JC-1401P3A at a > thrift store today for $8. > > It has one DA-9 connector on the back, plus a few switches for > selecting RGB or color depth (I guess?), plus a digital/analog switch. > I didn't have a chance to test it other than to turn it on and verify > that it had a raster. I figured for $8 I couldn't go too terribly > wrong. > > Is this a good all around display for use with different machines? It > doesn't have any composite input however. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > This is a great little monitor. I have one as well a several other NEC multisync models. This was their first multi. They used to supply a 15pin adaptor cable for it to do VGA. I have the adaptor hack and a bunch of specs from NECs old page on this model that I could send you if you like. This was in the features file: Automaticallyscans all frequencies between 15.5 kHz and 35 kHz Compatiblewith the IBM PC, PC/XT, PC/AT and compatibles. Compatiblewith the IBM Professional Graphics Adapter (PGA), Enhanced Graphics Adapter (EGA), Color Graphics Adapter (CGA) and Video Graphics Array (VGA). The monitor's wide compatibility makes it possible too upgrade boards or software without purchasing a new monitor. Has a maximum horizontal resolution of 800 dots and a maximum vertical resolution of 560 lines. Offersboth TTL and ANALOG signal inputs, and in the ANALOG mode can display an unlimited palette of colors depending on the graphics board and software being used. Featuresa TEXT SWITCH with a choice of seven colors (red, blue, green, cyan, yellow, white and magenta) displaying word processing, spread sheets, data bases or other software in crisp alphanumeric text on a dark-bulb black ground. Has a 14 inch diagonal display with a 13 inch viewing area. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Jan 11 00:19:48 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Getting a DG MV2000. What do I need? In-Reply-To: <7k3q5to3ohvkj5hv57l5a6ckarvl4erec1@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20010111065647.BKFT5855.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Is this a thin desk-side model or a giant? The difference should be something like 400lbs+ between the two. The former is mv2000dc and the latter mv2000. The 2000 is better in all terms but floorspace, power requirement etcetera. Get a terminal or two if they are cheap ($5.00 to $25.00 or so each). If the terminals are ridiculous, you can use a PC, but DG terminal emulators are frustratingly hard to find and sometimes more expensive than a hardware terminal. You need DG2xx emulation for the master terminal. The others are easier to handle using VTxxx emulation and macro changes to configure the ports. I've seen lots of DG MV gear but by no means all. It really matters if you have a 2000dc or a 2000. If dc, get all the cables you can with the machine. The 2000dc uses a very wierd cable for terminals. I can supply microcode, operating system install tapes, some software including a fortran compiler, and experience hard won. Getting an MV4000dc was what got me to this mailing list. In this first case the list wasn't terribly helpful in delivering solutions, but was very encouraging and helped me locate other resources. Information is still hard to come by, but I have an excellent resource in the form of warehouses full of DG computers and docs just two miles or so from home. I've also got a full set of docs for the hardware and OS. After what I went through, I'm practically falling over myself offering help. Regards, Jeff In <7k3q5to3ohvkj5hv57l5a6ckarvl4erec1@4ax.com>, on 01/11/01 at 01:19 AM, Ben said: >Hi folks, I'm back on the list after 3 years of absence. >I'm getting a DG MV2000 machine. It is apparently working. I would like >to know what additional stuff do I need to get a 100% working system. The >guy selling it is talking about floppy drives and terminals. Should I get >at least one terminal and the drives? >Thanks. >Ben -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jan 11 01:38:12 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: IMPs Message-ID: <200101110738.AAA28094@calico.litterbox.com> Okay, I'm watching the History Channel's treatment of how the internet came to be and I have to wonder if any of BBN's IMPs are still around. Those have to be *bigtime* collector's items. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 11 02:07:46 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: IMPs In-Reply-To: <200101110738.AAA28094@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010111000446.034bd750@208.226.86.10> At 12:38 AM 1/11/01 -0700, you wrote: >Okay, I'm watching the History Channel's treatment of how the internet came >to be and I have to wonder if any of BBN's IMPs are still around. Those >have to be *bigtime* collector's items. One of the guys who stopped by to talk to me at the VCF claimed he had both an IMP and a TAC (Terminal Access Controller) in his garage in Southern California. My favorite thing about the IMP we had at USC was that the chassis was mil-spec and came with the requisite parachute rings in case you needed to drop an ARPAnet on somebodies head :-) --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 11 01:15:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: IMPs In-Reply-To: <200101110738.AAA28094@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Okay, I'm watching the History Channel's treatment of how the internet came > to be and I have to wonder if any of BBN's IMPs are still around. Those > have to be *bigtime* collector's items. Yes, I hugged one last night at The Computer Museum History Center (the point being that I had my arms around the Internet...dumb joke :) I think there are at least a few more still in existence. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Jan 11 01:01:19 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010111091412.FGXV5855.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Sorry. I had to get my two cents in. So here goes:.... This is the first time in Microsoft's experience that it's future depends on the quality of it's software. I didn't mention the BSD variants because I didn't want to further muddy the waters. Linux should be and is sometimes still properly referred to as GNU/Linux. It is hard to pronounce GNU properly..... Consumers hate that. And there is that "what does GNU stand for?" question that keeps me up at nights. The GNU folks had nearly everything complete and right but the kernel. Linus wrote that - a very important piece of work, but hardly an operating system. Linus gets more credit than he deserves in this respect, but I can't fault him for it - he never asked for it, and possibly to his personal detriment, he hasn't exploited it. It was really freaky. There was all this software and no useful kernel and then out of the blue Linus Sh*ts this diamond. Whiskytangofoxtrot??!! I use NetBSD and OpenBSD on my Sparc and on Intel and have found it cleaner, more secure, and less failure-prone than Linux but I've also found it has much less support outside of the hardcore "I'm gonna port God's-own server daemon to BSD" clique. Mostly, if it is there for Linux, BSD has got it too. Depending on your hardware, you can run Solaris and Linux apps alongside BSD software in emulation mode. BTW, anyone got shared libraries for SUNOS on Sparc? The relationship between Un*x-like operating systems is almost incestuous. There may be a trend toward a common environment or at least towards a cluster of competing ones which run the same software. This is healthy. After all, computers have no mores. Errr. It is not unimportant to note that with a few third-party exceptions, Microsoft operating systems are the only ones not on the bandwagon. Lots of folks are hopping on and microsoft is oblivious. I hope this turns out like a 'Pinky and the Brain' episode. Since the DOJ brought it's suit, there has been an enormous resurgence in the operating system market - Particularly in ones that had little status before the suit. OS/2 runs Unix, Linux and BSD apps if you really want it to. So do FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, MiNT, NeXT -- the list goes on. All you need is a smart user or a 17 year-old kid with a GNU C compiler (if things get hard). You might call this period "Hangtime". Metaphoricaly, Microsoft is flying off the top of a very steep ramp. Either their momentum carries them to the other side, or there is going to be a crash. In between, and beyond the ramps, stand millions of well-earned enemies spraying 'silly string' at it while it is in flight. Good. Everyone pays thier debts sometime. MS is under such scrutiny that thier mafia tactics cannot be used and they are forced to make good products or lose thier hegemony. By the time the DOJ wins/loses it may not matter. MS may and must produce the 'killer o/s" or dissolve. Somehow, I think MS will not produce the killer operating system but I'd like to see them try. The only way to challenge MS on it's merits is to continue the scrutiny until it produces a truely marketable product. Until lately, it has insulated it'self from nature by subterfuge. I look foreward to what will happen, and hope that folks will keep thier eyes on the company to ensure it does right. I've had mine Peeled. Regards, Jeff P.S. I hope that wasn't too many commas.... In , on 01/11/01 at 02:01 AM, "R. D. Davis" said: >On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >[re: Linux] >> matter what draconian measures MS would use to kill it. It must be >> frustrating to MS to be beat by a bunch of kids with a free C compiler. >Remember, much of Linux wasn't created by the Linux crowd; that is, all >of the utilities, that C compiler, etc. all came from the Free Software >Foundation's GNU stuff. Let's not overlook other threats to Microsoft, >such as all of the other flavors of UNIX, and BDSI, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and >NetBSD, some which are also free and perhaps more robust than Linux. >-- >Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding >of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner >cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a >horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a >tree; trust me, this works." --RDD -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 11 04:28:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A5CE379.9622.53A110E@localhost> References: <3A5C8932.25270.3D95FE5@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 10, 1 04:09:22 pm <3A5CE379.9622.53A110E@localhost> Message-ID: >hard to find beasts. I have an Atari with an RJ11 connector waiting >for whatever it originally came with ( a TTxx ?) The keyboards with the RJ11 type connector work with both the Mega-ST and Mega-STE series, though there may be others as well. The STE series keyboard is generally considered to be a better keyboard. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 11 06:57:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: <3A5CF71F.20447.586D4D5@localhost> References: Message-ID: >adaptor cable for it to do VGA. I have the adaptor >hack and a bunch of specs from NECs old page on this model that I could >send you if you like. My guess is that quite a few of us on the list could use at least the basic info on this monitor, why not just post it, or give a link to it. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jan 11 09:03:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: a little TI In-Reply-To: <00de01c07b18$38d55330$2c784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010111100346.098f3c58@mailhost.intellistar.net> Mike, I DID have a box that I think was for the TI. It had 100 pin sockets that were offset to one end like your card. It should still be here somewhere. I'll try to find it before the hamfest. Joe At 10:15 AM 1/10/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi gang and Happy New Year, > >It's great when you can rummage in one of your own piles and find something >new... (Thanks Alzheimer's) Where'd that come from... ;) > >Anyway. I found a TI TM990/101MA card that's about 11x6 inches and can be >seen at: > > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/d/o/dogas/ti01.jpg > >I guess this came out of a 990 mini but it looks like everything is there to >use it as a sbc. It's got jumpers for terminal/modem,bank,ram,eprom select >and a few more. Google and dogpile didn't turn up anything and I'm looking >for the pin specs for the connector edges, power requirements and any other >info anyone might have. > >Also, while on the subject.... I have an extra TI TM990/U89 that I'd like >to trade for a TI TM990/189 with someone in a complimentary position. >Email me off list if interested. > >Cheers >- Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 11 12:28:49 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010111091412.FGXV5855.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: Message-ID: Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: >The GNU folks had nearly everything complete and right but the kernel. >Linus wrote that - a very important piece of work, but hardly an operating >system. Linus gets more credit than he deserves in this respect, but I >can't fault him for it - he never asked for it, and possibly to his >personal detriment, he hasn't exploited it. Isn't revisionist history great. :^( Simply put what a load of BS! GNU's contribution was gcc. At the time there were some semi-nice GNU utilities, but they pretty much fit on one floppy! Even GCC was pretty pathetic at the time. The FACT is GNU wouldn't be where it is today IF it wasn't for Linux! At that time we were as likely to get our utilities from BSD as we were from GNU! BTW, 'bash' wasn't the only shell we had either. BTW, anyone remember just how long it to Stallman to notice Linux? All I've ever seen him do for it is cry like a big baby! I'm still not convinced he's nothing but a Circus act! He should be acknowledging the fact that GNU (and very likely UNIX) would be a footnote in the history books if not for Linux! Yes, I'm one of the people so disgusted by Stallman I'd like to see a GNU free distro of Linux! OTOH, if I want a secure system I run OpenBSD, and my Sparc's run Solaris. Zane (running Linux for NINE years now, so this is almost on topic) -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 11 12:25:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D58@TEGNTSERVER> > And there is that "what does GNU stand for?" question that > keeps me up at nights. GNU is a self-referential acronym; it means " GNU's Not Unix". Regards, -dq From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 11 12:21:16 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: OT! Re: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <20010111091412.FGXV5855.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Linux should be and is sometimes still properly referred to as GNU/Linux. Why? Linux is the kernel. GNU are the tools that happen to have been compiled and distributed with it on many distributions. Would you call HP/UX "GNU-HP/UX", or Solaris "Gnu/Solaris", or any BSD variant "GNU/xBSD", just because GNU tools have been compiled and distributed with those? Of course not! > The GNU folks had nearly everything complete and right but the kernel. > Linus wrote that - a very important piece of work, but hardly an operating > system. Linus gets more credit than he deserves in this respect, but I > can't fault him for it - he never asked for it, and possibly to his > personal detriment, he hasn't exploited it. Bullshit. See above. > It was really freaky. There was all this software and no useful kernel > and then out of the blue Linus Sh*ts this diamond. Whiskytangofoxtrot??!! What good are Unix tools without a Unix kernel? > Metaphoricaly, Microsoft is flying off the top of a very steep ramp. > Either their momentum carries them to the other side, or there is going to > be a crash. In between, and beyond the ramps, stand millions of > well-earned enemies spraying 'silly string' at it while it is in flight. > Good. Everyone pays thier debts sometime. Wow, poetry on classiccmp. Who woulda thunk? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Jan 11 13:33:02 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: References: <3A5CF71F.20447.586D4D5@localhost> Message-ID: <3A5DC41E.9121.8A7B9A9@localhost> > >adaptor cable for it to do VGA. I have the adaptor > >hack and a bunch of specs from NECs old page on this model that I > >could send you if you like. > > My guess is that quite a few of us on the list could use at least the > basic info on this monitor, why not just post it, or give a link to > it. > Well I just zipped the mainly HTML files(no gif's) and it comes to 28k. It was just a pages download from a NEC site - perhaps the Australian one which used to have a lot of old stuff-so there are broken links. I hesitate to send something of that length to the list and my external internet storage is in disarray. I've sent it to you and Sellam and if there are a lot who want it perhaps I could get my storage act together. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 11 12:58:06 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <3A5CE379.9622.53A110E@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Jan 10, 1 10:34:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1778 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010111/5fac52fc/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 11 13:29:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: <3A5DC41E.9121.8A7B9A9@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Well I just zipped the mainly HTML files(no gif's) and it comes to > 28k. It was just a pages download from a NEC site - perhaps the > Australian one which used to have a lot of old stuff-so there are > broken links. I hesitate to send something of that length to the list > and my external internet storage is in disarray. I've sent it to you > and Sellam and if there are a lot who want it perhaps I could get my > storage act together. I put it on my server, and you can get it here: http://www.siconic.com/crap/nec1401.zip Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 11 14:45:47 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 11, 1 10:28:49 am" Message-ID: <200101112045.MAA10918@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Isn't revisionist history great. :^( Simply put what a load of BS! GNU's > contribution was gcc. At the time there were some semi-nice GNU utilities, > but they pretty much fit on one floppy! Even GCC was pretty pathetic at > the time. The FACT is GNU wouldn't be where it is today IF it wasn't for > Linux! At that time we were as likely to get our utilities from BSD as we > were from GNU! BTW, 'bash' wasn't the only shell we had either. Yep, I was just going to jump in and say that very thing. How quickly people forget other excellent shells like tcsh, too. > BTW, anyone remember just how long it to Stallman to notice Linux? All > I've ever seen him do for it is cry like a big baby! I'm still not > convinced he's nothing but a Circus act! He should be acknowledging the > fact that GNU (and very likely UNIX) would be a footnote in the history > books if not for Linux! Richard Stallman is more interested in turning author's rights on their head. I swear, the man would like to see copyright law burned, shredded and mangled. I won't use GPL on any of the open source software I write (see http://httpi.floodgap.com/license.txt for my version) because it irresponsibly allows people to run with your hard work and make money off it. If I made it free, I don't want a hacked open source version out there that's raking in the bucks. As the author, that's *my* right. > OTOH, if I want a secure system I run OpenBSD, and my Sparc's run Solaris. I run AIX and NetBSD myself! :-) And, one of these days when I get my 6502-on-6502 virtual CPU implementation done, my C64 will run my own Unixy flavour too (just to make this on-topic somewhat). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- God is the tangential point between zero and infinity. -- Alfred Jarry ----- From william.webb at juno.com Thu Jan 11 15:09:27 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W Webb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Core memory for sale Message-ID: <20010111.160927.327.0.william.webb@juno.com> I've got some single core frames 64x64; they look almost identical to the one in the top photo at: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/coremem.htm except the PC board is tan (bakelite?) instead of translucent fiberglas like the one in the photo. $35 while they last. Also have one 4K memory module (9 frames in mount with PC boards top and bottom) make offer. william.webb@juno.com williamwebb@whiteice.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From kevan at heydon.org Thu Jan 11 15:24:01 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? Message-ID: I have one that is surplus to requirements. It's located in Cambridge, and free to a good home if anybody is interested in it. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 11 16:11:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Centronics interface : Falling edge of stb/ works fine Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5742 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010111/dcf75c8f/attachment.ksh From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Jan 11 16:35:04 2001 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFB5@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Greeting Listers - I have been lurking as a Digest Subscriber. Recently I had this IBM Risc/6000 7007 PowerPortable N40 fall in my lap. On It is AIX 3.2.5.. My problem is that I am staring at a Console Login prompt and know zilch about AIX. I do not know the root password. So this system is useless until I find the exploits to circumvent the system entry, or at least learn enough to to build a user acct.. This portable has a 1.2Gig Drive. 64M in SIMM. No diskette drive but PCMCIA slot as well as several of the cables and and AUi port in the back to network the beast I have the Risc Sytem/6000 N40 notebook workstation users guide and have started to read through it. This system came with the AIX 3.2.5 CD - but has no CDROM drive so I believe I have to network it to something so I can restore the System? The user guide mentions a Pause+R keysequence to get the box to toggle between normal and "service" modes, emulation a physical sw on rack mounted RS6000's Can ANYONE here point me to an Exploit to circumvent root password? The user guide tells me how to set it for the first time. The system had been turned off long enough to forget the time, month and Year etc, -- but it kept the root password on file. Is there something I can do from the service mode? Sincerely Larry Truthan From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Jan 11 18:14:23 2001 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: FW: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFB9@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> I found an installed rom based diagnostic and ran through some non-invasive tests. One of the rom based tests lets you set up both the portables IP address and a host machines IP address and then "Ping" Between the two. Also on this diagnostic ping page they call out by "number" the "boot" device, which with no link connected, defaults to "NONE". Yet there is another maintenance screen where you can select the AUI ethernet port as the "Boot Device". If you set the ethernet port as the boot device, and then comeback to this screen, I wonder whether you just ping, or initiate a boot? Obviusly I don't want to kill it until I understand how to establish a "link" to revive it. I think I have all the tools, I just hope the AIX CD-ROM can be loaded from a Non-AIX based server host- Perhaps just a PC with an X windows session, or FTP HOST running. Plinking away. Sincerely Larry Truthan From optimus at canit.se Thu Jan 11 17:49:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2478.412T2200T496025optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this 1640HD20 and I >It's a quadrature output mouse, like an ST mouse, an Amiga mouse, PERQ 3a >mouse, PC bus mouse, original (pre ADB) Mac mouse and so on. The >connector pinout is specific to the Amstrad. Pre ADB Mac... Does this mean that I could reqire this old Mac Plus mouse I've got so that it will run with my STs and Amigas? >Does that make it 'proprietry'? You can't plug in a normal PC serial >mouse (the mouse port is not a serial port, or a PS/2 mouse port). And >you'd have to rewire the connector [1] to use another quadrature mouse on >the Amstrad. But it is the standard TTL level quadrature signals as used >on many classic computers. I've come to consider anything else than quadrature a kludge. >> One of my ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch to change it >> to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and >Yes, the real difference between Atari ST and amiga mice is the wiring of >the connector. Rearranging the wires (which is what the switch does) will >let the same mouse work on both machines). >A few years ago, Maplin (a UK hobbyist electronic component shop) sold >replacement mice for the ST and Amiga. One was 2 button, the other was 3 >button. I used them as replacement mice on all sorts of machines (the >Amstrad PC2086, the Mac+, Acorn Archimedes, etc) just by replacing the >connector (and wiring it appropriately). Alas you can no longer get these >very useful mice, just the much less useful PC serial type, which work on >almost no machines that I have. Can't one just rip out the serial chip, then? >One day I must program a microcontroller to talk to a PC serial mouse and >give out quadrature signals on the other side so I can use a PC serial >mouse with many of my classic computers. There are a lot of solutions for this on the market. The most luxurous models, such as the Punchinello or Mroochek, even support mouse wheels. Speaking of mouse protocols, on what principle do DECstation/VAXstation mice work? I look forward to going graphic with my 3MAX sometime in the future, but the UFO/puck mouse doesn't seem all that attractive, especially not at the usual DEC prices. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A Spanish MSX Group "Matra" visited to this Fair. I lent Spanish stand to them. They showed and did Promotion play of SEX BOMB BUNNY. And this Game has tema song of Majingar-Z! Why they know Japanese TV animation? K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From rdd at smart.net Thu Jan 11 19:10:26 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <200101102324.SAA00618@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Megan wrote: > I read a report earlier today in which teh president and CEO of M$ > declared that Linux was the #1 threat to the company as they enter > the new year... A while back, someone in Microsoft leaked a document to the net from inside Microsoft, detailing ways in which they planned to deal with this "problem." How many here ever saw this? While I'm no big fan of Linux, it's got some good things going for it, and it's better than anything that Microsoft has ever produced... I don't want to think about what would happen to Linux if Microsoft could somehow get it's claws into it and begin marketing it. Of course, Microsoft already has experience with screwing up UNIX: remember Xenix (and it's weird mutant SCO offspring that went off to live on its own)? -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 11 19:24:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: FW: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFB9@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> from "Truthan,Larry" at Jan 11, 2001 07:14:23 PM Message-ID: <200101120124.RAA31288@shell1.aracnet.com> > Obviusly I don't want to kill it until I understand how to establish a > "link" to revive it. I think I have all the tools, I just hope the AIX > CD-ROM can be loaded from a Non-AIX based server host- Perhaps just a PC > with an X windows session, or FTP HOST running. Does it by chance have an external SCSI connector? My guess is that you need an external SCSI CD-ROM drive. It wouldn't really make sense to have a system that *had* to be loaded over the net. OTOH, we are talking about IBM and Aches :^) Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 11 19:26:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Tandy Model 102 -answer- In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFB9@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> References: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFB9@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: A couple of weeks ago, I posed a question to the group concerning the Tandy Model 102 I had aquired and it's mysterious option ROM. Well today I finally got the 102 connected to my 486 laptop (used as a file server) and backed up all the files I'd been working on so that I could experiment with the option ROM a bit. It turns out to be a Point-of-sale program! It even has 'Payroll' and data transfer options. It was meant to be used by more than one store (it asks for a store # upon install) and is also password protected. Anyway, it's pretty interesting and I figured some of you might find it so as well. I also managed to dig out the NEC PC-8221A printer and got it working again. Too bad it's print seems to fade to near-nothing in a year or so, though it starts out black. It does work nicely with the 102 and doesn't even require formatting software. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 11 19:30:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <001901c07c37$3002a8a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Sir, you damage your credibility with statements like some you've made here. While it's true that the Microsoft products may not be the "best" thing for thos of us who are inclined to fuss and fiddle with our computers, they're WAY better for those who can't, won't, or shouldn't. They enable a whole range of people who, 15 years ago, wouldn't have been allowed in the same room with a computer to accomplish useful work, something which FEW of us do, computer design, programming, and maintenance all being overhead rather than useful work in most environments. They also enable people to use resources such as the internet, who otherwise might never have that experience, never mind that they use it primarily to save a trip to the convenience store to buy a magazine in a brown wrapper. I would exhort you to eschew reiteration of other people's falsehoods and, instead, search for a solution to the problems you so clearly perceive. Squandering bandwidth on matters that most of the computer world doesn't perceive as a problem will only hasten the day when we have to pay for our internet use by the bit. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Megan wrote: > > I read a report earlier today in which teh president and CEO of M$ > > declared that Linux was the #1 threat to the company as they enter > > the new year... > > A while back, someone in Microsoft leaked a document to the net from > inside Microsoft, detailing ways in which they planned to deal with > this "problem." How many here ever saw this? > > While I'm no big fan of Linux, it's got some good things going for it, > and it's better than anything that Microsoft has ever produced... I > don't want to think about what would happen to Linux if Microsoft > could somehow get it's claws into it and begin marketing it. Of > course, Microsoft already has experience with screwing up UNIX: > remember Xenix (and it's weird mutant SCO offspring that went off to > live on its own)? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of > All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD > > > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jan 11 19:54:34 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: IMPs In-Reply-To: <200101110738.AAA28094@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Grin... I was thinking how neat it would be to have one :) clint On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > Okay, I'm watching the History Channel's treatment of how the internet came > to be and I have to wonder if any of BBN's IMPs are still around. Those > have to be *bigtime* collector's items. > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 11 20:08:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >adaptor cable for it to do VGA. I have the adaptor >>hack and a bunch of specs from NECs old page on this model that I could >>send you if you like. > >My guess is that quite a few of us on the list could use at least the basic >info on this monitor, why not just post it, or give a link to it. Here's NEC's web area for the older discontinued models....quite a large amount of information is available using the pull-down menus once you get into the specific monitor's area. http://support.necmitsubishi.com/nec/original/index.htm The pin-outs for the connectors are avialable at this page in the area (I broke out of the frame to get the exact URL): http://support.necmitsubishi.com/nec/original/ms1/cable.htm Hope this helps those that are interested. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 11 20:23:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Info on DEC Rescue Result Message-ID: <200101120223.SAA32278@shell1.aracnet.com> I just got word on what happened to the VAX-11/750 and LSI-11/23 that I posted about last week. A teacher at one of the Portland High Schools took the whole lot. I've no idea what use they'll be put to, but hopefully they'll survive and prosper. Anyway I figure others besides myself might be wondering, especially with the threat of the scrapper hanging over their heads. Zane From mbg at world.std.com Thu Jan 11 20:58:17 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <200101120258.VAA26249@world.std.com> >A while back, someone in Microsoft leaked a document to the net from >inside Microsoft, detailing ways in which they planned to deal with >this "problem." How many here ever saw this? I saw it... there was (is?) a web site with pointers to it... but I don't know if I have a bookmark for it... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Jan 11 22:50:11 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <200101120258.VAA26249@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010111204952.00b53720@pacbell.net> At 09:58 PM 1/11/01 -0500, you wrote: > >A while back, someone in Microsoft leaked a document to the net from > >inside Microsoft, detailing ways in which they planned to deal with > >this "problem." How many here ever saw this? > >I saw it... there was (is?) a web site with pointers to it... but >I don't know if I have a bookmark for it... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Google and 30 seconds of probing finds: http://www.han.de/lugh/halloween.html ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 11 23:53:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010111204952.00b53720@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <001501c07c5c$01e08260$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I remember this! It's an example of what people are supposed to do when they work for the man. They do whatever it takes to benefit the stockholders. Back in the '70's, the fellow who introduced the world to really effective, if not environmentally household cleansers, namely "409," learned by some urreptitious means that Proctor and Gamble (his main competitor) was test marketing their competing product, also quite new at the time, in, among other places, Denver. About two weeks before the test was to begin, he offered a free 1/2-gallon refill bottle along with his normal spray bottle of 409. The result, off course, was that everybody who used 409, and some who hadn't yet, bought, and stocked up on, that "free offer" of the extran 6-month supply of 409. Consequently, sales of "Fantastic" were not good at all, thereby delaying P&G's introduction of their product by a couple of years. That's what we pay these senior decision-makers for, folks. They try to figure out how to get the other guy out of the way. They try to find legal ways to slit his proverbial, if not literal, throat. I don't know how seriously one should take this particular writeup, as it's looking pretty immature to me, like it's pretty bogus, but these youngsters can't write worth a sh*t these days, so who knows? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Battle" To: Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > At 09:58 PM 1/11/01 -0500, you wrote: > > > >A while back, someone in Microsoft leaked a document to the net from > > >inside Microsoft, detailing ways in which they planned to deal with > > >this "problem." How many here ever saw this? > > > >I saw it... there was (is?) a web site with pointers to it... but > >I don't know if I have a bookmark for it... > > > > Megan Gentry > > Former RT-11 Developer > > > Google and 30 seconds of probing finds: > > http://www.han.de/lugh/halloween.html > > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > From flo at rdel.co.uk Fri Jan 12 02:01:45 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? References: Message-ID: <3A5EB9E9.E7373A45@rdel.co.uk> Kevan Heydon wrote: > > I have one that is surplus to requirements. It's located in > Cambridge, and free to a good home if anybody is interested in it. Yes please, Kevan. I started off only collecting Digital terminals (and documenting them, at http://vt100.net/), but I've recently acquired a TV910 and a TV912c, and the quirky command set of these machines is starting to interest me! Do you have a use for any more modern terminals? I've got a bunch of Wyse WY-520s, which are good VT320 and VT420 compatible terminals. You're welcome to a few of them if you could use them. Regards, Paul From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 12 02:17:02 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010111204952.00b53720@pacbell.net> <001501c07c5c$01e08260$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A5EBD7E.855035E0@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Back in the '70's, the fellow who introduced the world to really effective, > if not environmentally household cleansers, namely "409," learned by some > urreptitious means that Proctor and Gamble (his main competitor) was test > I don't know how seriously one should take this particular writeup, as it's > looking pretty immature to me, like it's pretty bogus, but these youngsters > can't write worth a sh*t these days, so who knows? As far as I know, it is not at all bogus. The situation was written up in Success Magazine by the person who was heading the company at that time (can't recall his name.) From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Jan 12 05:33:34 2001 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFBC@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Well Pat, The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I am not making headway with your suggestion. I appreciate your experience, and your willingness to seek the collaboration of others, who may recall the process. The spiral bound AIX 3.2.5 release notes speak of restoring the factory build by connecting the N40 ethernet AUI port to a Host, and mounting the N40 3.2 AIX CD on a host based cdrom volume. I assume the host must be another AIX machine(?) (Or can it be on an FTP server?) The release notes speak of command line "mounting" the cdrom volume over the link -not running an FTP client session on the N40. SO far I've not connected the ethernet AUI port to another machine. I was thinking of using the service diagnostic ethernet test menu to configure the IP addresses of the source and destination machines. Just for the sake of connecting the N40 back to a Win98 PC and "Pinging" the remote PC. Then perhaps I can find an i386 based version of AIX to convert the PC to an AIX host, to harbor the N40's 3.2.5 AIX CDROM. Then, proceed with that learning environment. ANY free or cheap sources for early i386 AIX? I gather that IBM has dropped support for the N40, 3.2 AIX, and even some later versions of AIX. I am simply trying to make myself a small learning environment. From what I've seen this is a 6.9 pound network workstation. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Pat Barron [mailto:pat@transarc.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:10 PM To: Truthan,Larry Subject: Re: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Booting in Service Mode will bring up a menu of diagnostics and service aids. There is an undocumented, "invisible" choice on that menu, which I *think* is "66" (each choice is numbered, and number 66 should be the "hidden" option), which will dump you directly to a shell prompt. Now, however, you *may* have some challenges ahead before you can reset the root password. Depending on how the system actually gets you into Service Mode, you may find that the root volume group is not varied on, and that none of the filesystems are mounted. At the shell prompt, try typing the following commands: # mountall # ls If "ls" is found and produces output, then you are set - use the "ed" editor to edit /etc/security/passwd, and remove the "password =" line from root's entry in the file. This will clear root's password. You can then reboot the machine in Normal Mode, log in as root with no password, and then set the password in the usual way. If "ls" is not found, or if the output doesn't look like there are enough files there, then the root filesystem isn't there. Do "echo /*", "echo /bin/*", "echo /sbin/*", etc, to give you an idea of what's available. In that case, you'll need to go through a sequence similar to the following to get into the filesystem (note that it's been a *long* time since I've done this, and this isn't guaranteed to be even remotely correct, and which may screw up your Object Data Manager if it goes wrong, so beware....): # importvg hdisk0 # varyonvg rootvg # mount /dev/hd4 /mnt # cd /mnt/etc/security And then work on the "passwd" file with whatever tools you can use.... If this doesn't help, let me know, and I can probably find some other folks around here who might remember..... --Pat. From itq at hetnet.nl Fri Jan 12 04:02:20 2001 From: itq at hetnet.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Folks, Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to much work still to make it fit for the masses. Wim From jtinker at coin.org Fri Jan 12 08:25:41 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <3A5F13E5.F42742BC@coin.org> "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > Folks, > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > Wim Don't forget the opportunity lost due to M$ predations. Gates didn't invent software. He pulled the rug out from under a lot of good effort, using everyone else's work, but trying to protect his own. He poked his finger in the eye of standards wherever possible. Standard layers will be the foundation of future system elaboration. The fundamental contradiction Gates had to get around, was that between "information age" and "proprietory software". It is the "rising tide lifts all boats" problem. What is the value of wealth, unless you are richer than the next guy? If everybody is rich, who will pick up the garbage? When people started passing around copies of his BASIC, Gates realized the problem, and the solution. -- John Tinker From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Jan 12 08:33:58 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> from "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" at "Jan 12, 2001 11:02:20 am" Message-ID: <200101121433.f0CEXxj00637@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> > Folks, > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > Wim I'd expect the same from trying to tell that to my mother. My wife's an ex-Unix admin -- so I could tell her. She'd tell me to stick it -- she doesn't do the maintenance on the home network -- that's my job. Of course -- I got even and gave her the lawn maintenance work to get even. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Fri Jan 12 08:36:01 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Pin-outs for VT220 Message-ID: <008b01c07ca4$fd528ba0$03d0d63f@headleys> Hi can someone email me or point me to somewhere I can get this information: Pinouts for VT220 ===================================================================== PH: 302-798-1930 Fax: 302-798-0243 Mobile: 302-983-4293 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010112/ed00748b/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 12 08:56:07 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <200101121433.f0CEXxj00637@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jan 12, 1 09:33:58 am" Message-ID: <200101121456.GAA11102@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'd expect the same from trying to tell that to my mother. > My wife's an ex-Unix admin -- so I could tell her. > > She'd tell me to stick it -- she doesn't do the maintenance on the home > network -- that's my job. > Of course -- I got even and gave her the lawn maintenance work to get even. Now that's what I call an "elegant solution" :-) Wish I could find an S.O. that is willing to do lawn work ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Hark, the Herald Tribune sings/Advertising wondrous things. -- Tom Lehrer -- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 12 09:46:58 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: >Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on >this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by >tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to >much work still to make it fit for the masses. Now thats true, but *nix keeps getting better and better. From pat at transarc.ibm.com Fri Jan 12 09:51:44 2001 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:07 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFBC@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Truthan,Larry wrote: > The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub > menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language > select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I > am not making headway with your suggestion. Hmm ... I may be misremembering the number. On AIX 4.1.4, the "secret" menu option is "41"; you might try that and see if you get anywhere. I don't think I still have any 3.2.5 machines here, but we might have one around stuck in some corner somewhere. If worse comes to worse, I think we still have 3.2.5 install tapes, and I could probably drag an old RS/6000 Model 320 out of our surplus storage (assuming we haven't already sent them all back to our Asset Recovery folks for disposal), and set up a machine. > The spiral bound AIX 3.2.5 release notes speak of restoring the factory > build by connecting the N40 ethernet AUI port to a Host, and mounting the > N40 3.2 AIX CD on a host based cdrom volume. > > I assume the host must be another AIX machine(?) (Or can it be on an FTP > server?) The release notes speak of command line "mounting" the cdrom > volume over the link -not running an FTP client session on the N40. To be honest, I don't know a whole lot about installing 3.2.5 over the net, because we always did those installs from tape. I believe that AIX 4.x can only be installed from another from another AIX machine that has the Network Installation Manager set up on it (and the guy in the office next to me thinks the same thing). Network installation uses TFTP and NFS to bring things over, but there is also this "instsrv" process which is the "network installation service daemon" that needs to run on the install host. Even if you could do it, you'd have to somehow extract from the CD-ROM, the network boot kernel, and put it (probably) in your TFTP area under the correct name. Again, I don't have a 3.2.5 machine handy, so I can't experiment with installing from a Sun or something like that. Oh, one caveat - if the machine has a SCSI port, you'll certainly be able to do a "local" installation. But, some of the older hardware actually checks, and will not install from anything other than a GENUINE, IBM BRAND CD-ROM or tape drive. Does no harm to give it a shot, though - won't hurt anything if it doesn't work. > SO far I've not connected the ethernet AUI port to another machine. > I was thinking of using the service diagnostic ethernet test menu to > configure the IP addresses of the source and destination machines. Just for > the sake of connecting the N40 back to a Win98 PC and "Pinging" the remote > PC. > > Then perhaps I can find an i386 based version of AIX to convert the PC to an > AIX host, to harbor the N40's 3.2.5 AIX CDROM. Then, proceed with that > learning environment. ANY free or cheap sources for early i386 AIX? I don't think there ever was an AIX for i386. > I gather that IBM has dropped support for the N40, 3.2 AIX, and even some > later versions of AIX. I am simply trying to make myself a small learning > environment. From what I've seen this is a 6.9 pound network workstation. AIX 3.2.5 is close to 10 years old, and is somewhat different from the AIX of today. If you're trying to learn AIX, you might consider finding yourself an RS/6000 Model 320, 320H, or maybe a 220, and run AIX 4.1.3 (at least) on it. That might be more useful to you in the long run. I noticed that there is currently a 320H listed on eBay, current bid is $51.00 .... Not that getting the N40 working is a bad thing, mind you - I'd love to see it operational. We never had any of those here. --Pat. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 10:38:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? References: <3A5EB9E9.E7373A45@rdel.co.uk> Message-ID: <001f01c07cb6$1246dd20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I don't believe I've ever seen a 924. I have a 925, and gave away about half a dozen 910/912/920 types a few years back. How does the 924 differ from the 925? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Williams" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 1:01 AM Subject: Re: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? > Kevan Heydon wrote: > > > > I have one that is surplus to requirements. It's located in > > Cambridge, and free to a good home if anybody is interested in it. > > Yes please, Kevan. I started off only collecting Digital terminals (and > documenting them, at http://vt100.net/), but I've recently acquired a > TV910 and a TV912c, and the quirky command set of these machines is > starting to interest me! > > Do you have a use for any more modern terminals? I've got a bunch of > Wyse WY-520s, which are good VT320 and VT420 compatible terminals. > You're welcome to a few of them if you could use them. > > Regards, > Paul > > From pat at transarc.ibm.com Fri Jan 12 10:37:51 2001 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFBC@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Truthan,Larry wrote: > The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub > menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language > select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I > am not making headway with your suggestion. Oh, also, just to clarify - the menu I am talking about is the AIX diagnostic menu, which only has 4 or 5 choices on it as far as I recall. This is accessed by booting AIX in "Service Mode". This isn't to be confused with the diagnostics in the firmware (whose menu apparently has 10 entries). I poked around and found a document that might help you: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RS/6000 N40 Laptop * Setting the System to Service Mode: 1. Press the key sequence [Pause][R] to reset the N40 (or power it off). 2. Then interrupt with [Pause][K] key sequence as soon as the IBM logo appears. 3. After several seconds, a language selection menu will appear; select appropriate language. 4. Then press 99 to go to the main menu 5. Select #7 (Change Soft-Keyswitch Setting). 6. Select #3 (Service). 7. Then press 99 to go to the main menu. 8. Select #10 to start the boot off the CD. * Limitations: > The 7007-N40 is supported by a special N40 version of AIX 3.2.5. The 7007-N40 is NOT supported at AIX V4. > The support for the 7007-N40 and N40 AIX 3.2.5 has been withdrawn, thus questions are answered on a best effort basis. * Information > Software maintenance on this system can be done by booting off the AIX 3.2.5 for N40 cdrom. To do this, attach the cdrom drive to the SCSI bus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You already knew most of this, but I'm sending it along in case it might help. --Pat. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 12 11:00:27 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: Re: Nuke Richmond (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <14943.14379.827417.165212@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 12, W.B.(Wim) Hofman wrote: > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > much work still to make it fit for the masses. I dunno, man. I'm a NetBSD person myself, and not a Linux fanatic, but I installed DeadRat 6.2 on a machine a few days ago...it was quick and painless, bordering on trivial. Problem is, though...It was easier for me because it was going into an existing network, so all I had to do was assign it an IP address and be done with it. The average housewife will have to set up PPP, which adds quite a bit of work. In my opinion, based on this latest installation...if someone can figure out how to build a PPP setup system that's generic enough to be built into the regular installer, then installing Linux (well, RedHat Linux specifically, it's the only distribution I've used recently [except Storm Linux, which I really liked]) really will be as easy and pedestrian as WinDoze. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 12 11:17:23 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: Re: Nuke Redmond! (Richard Erlacher) References: <001901c07c37$3002a8a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <14943.15395.89648.603093@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 11, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Sir, you damage your credibility with statements like some you've made here. > While it's true that the Microsoft products may not be the "best" thing for > thos of us who are inclined to fuss and fiddle with our computers, they're > WAY better for those who can't, won't, or shouldn't. I know this response wasn't directed at me, but I have to take [at least a little] exception to this. Microsoft products are teaching (have teached?) the world that computers (ALL computers) need to be restarted several times each day, and that this is normal and acceptable behavior. That computers break frequently, and cause the loss of work. That computers (MODERN computers) have a bitmapped click-happy interface, and anything that doesn't is "quaint, useless old technology". Do you really think these are good things for computer neophytes to be taught? There are hoards of Microsoft weenies running around who actually *believe* these things...and with Microsoft teaching them to shun other technologies, they'll probably *never* understand the true nature of "computers". Here's an exaple of the brain-damage that Microsoft is promoting. A while back, I had a job in which I was designing some custom microcoded floating-point processors using MSI and LSI chips and PAL/TTL glue. My grandmother (may she rest in peace) was talking to her [windows-running] neighbor, bragging about me in typical grandmother style...when asked what I do for a living, she answered proudly and accurately, "my grandson is very smart...he builds computers!" The neighbor, obviously lacking the social skills to understand that he was being insulting, said "aww, that's nothing...building them is the easy part. It's LOADING them that's hard! Maybe he'll get to that level in a few years. Keeping all those programs from messing up Windows is the really hard part of 'computers'." I was utterly flabbergasted by this, so much that I was rendered speechless. -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 12 10:15:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <200101121456.GAA11102@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200101121433.f0CEXxj00637@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jan 12, 1 09:33:58 am" Message-ID: >Now that's what I call an "elegant solution" :-) >Wish I could find an S.O. that is willing to do lawn work ... I could introduce you to one of my gardeners and we could see what happens? From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 11:31:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> <3A5F13E5.F42742BC@coin.org> Message-ID: <003501c07cbd$823a5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> All these complaints about how things are won't fix a thing! If the LINUX community were interested in providing a service, that is, a service for anyone other than themselves, they'd have done the up-to-now missing 90% of the work and cleaned up and documented their software. Instead, you have a terrible mess of code with comments that hve been irrelevant and incorrect for the last 25 revisions, yet nobody's been willing to delete them. Generally, design and coding is about 2% of the job, debugging is another 3%, cleanup is about 5% and thorough and accurate documentation is about 90. >From what I've seen so far, the LINUX community, though well-intentioned, has done little to provide tools useable by the masses. Instead of lighting that "one candle" they'd rather personalize their frustration, resulting, BTW, from their own lack of application effort, targeting Bill Gates, whose policies are really no different from those of any corporate leader. They're supposed to outdo the competition, trip them up, confound their efforts to acquire market share, and just generally try to do them in. Gates and Co have done well. What's more, for every LINUX user who's even remotely satisfied with what he has, there are thousands of Windows-users out there who love their OS. One difference, however, is that they (the Windows users) don't have to spend their lives stroking the OS just to keep it alive. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tinker" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > > > Folks, > > > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > > > Wim > > Don't forget the opportunity lost due to M$ predations. Gates didn't invent > software. He pulled the rug out from under a lot of good effort, using > everyone else's work, but trying to protect his own. He poked his finger in > the eye of standards wherever possible. Standard layers will be the foundation > of future system elaboration. The fundamental contradiction Gates had to get > around, was that between "information age" and "proprietory software". It is > the "rising tide lifts all boats" problem. What is the value of wealth, unless > you are richer than the next guy? If everybody is rich, who will pick up the > garbage? When people started passing around copies of his BASIC, Gates > realized the problem, and the solution. > > -- John Tinker > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 11:32:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: Message-ID: <003d01c07cbd$acd9ec40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > Now thats true, but *nix keeps getting better and better. > At what? Dick From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 11:39:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> <14943.14379.827417.165212@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <004301c07cbe$a4a6d000$1192fea9@idcomm.com> problem is ... you STILL have to deal with the OS. Moreover, there are few "nice-n-easy" applications for doing what's considered "useful work" in most environments. What's more, the general trend in the Non-commercial (GNU/LINUX/... ) environment seems to be toward "good enough" and not toward getting it right. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > On January 12, W.B.(Wim) Hofman wrote: > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > I dunno, man. I'm a NetBSD person myself, and not a Linux fanatic, > but I installed DeadRat 6.2 on a machine a few days ago...it was > quick and painless, bordering on trivial. > > Problem is, though...It was easier for me because it was going into > an existing network, so all I had to do was assign it an IP address > and be done with it. The average housewife will have to set up PPP, > which adds quite a bit of work. > > In my opinion, based on this latest installation...if someone can > figure out how to build a PPP setup system that's generic enough to be > built into the regular installer, then installing Linux (well, RedHat > Linux specifically, it's the only distribution I've used recently > [except Storm Linux, which I really liked]) really will be as easy and > pedestrian as WinDoze. > > -Dave McGuire > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 12:06:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <001901c07c37$3002a8a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <14943.15395.89648.603093@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <004901c07cc2$57eca4c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> No, it wasn't really directed at any specific person, but, rather, toward those, in general, who repeat the questionable and second-hand remarks of others in an effort to lend credibility to them by attributing them to someone else (presumably smarter or more knowledgable, which they seldom are). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > On January 11, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Sir, you damage your credibility with statements like some you've made here. > > While it's true that the Microsoft products may not be the "best" thing for > > thos of us who are inclined to fuss and fiddle with our computers, they're > > WAY better for those who can't, won't, or shouldn't. > > I know this response wasn't directed at me, but I have to take [at > least a little] exception to this. > > Microsoft products are teaching (have teached?) the world that > computers (ALL computers) need to be restarted several times each day, > and that this is normal and acceptable behavior. That computers break > frequently, and cause the loss of work. That computers (MODERN > computers) have a bitmapped click-happy interface, and anything that > doesn't is "quaint, useless old technology". > Judging from the language I've heard in association with such breakdowns, I have to say I don't believe anyone believes them to be normal, acceptable, tolerable, or anything that they aren't. They're system breakdowns! These same users, however, are getting a "feel" for working with systems that are, in the whole, much more complex than all the automobiles that have ever seen daylight, combined. Moreover, I have had a couple of Windows machines (still have one, the other went with my elder son) that seldom if ever have to be restarted. Of course, they're portables, so the hardware environment is much better controlled than in a desktop, and the inherent limitations mitigate the risk of unfavorable hardware/software interactions. > > Do you really think these are good things for computer neophytes to > be taught? There are hoards of Microsoft weenies running around who > actually *believe* these things...and with Microsoft teaching them to > shun other technologies, they'll probably *never* understand the true > nature of "computers". > I don't think you're giving your fellow man credit he deserves. > > Here's an exaple of the brain-damage that Microsoft is promoting. A > while back, I had a job in which I was designing some custom > microcoded floating-point processors using MSI and LSI chips and > PAL/TTL glue. My grandmother (may she rest in peace) was talking to > her [windows-running] neighbor, bragging about me in typical > grandmother style...when asked what I do for a living, she answered > proudly and accurately, "my grandson is very smart...he builds > computers!" The neighbor, obviously lacking the social skills to > understand that he was being insulting, said "aww, that's > nothing...building them is the easy part. It's LOADING them that's > hard! Maybe he'll get to that level in a few years. Keeping all > those programs from messing up Windows is the really hard part of > 'computers'." > Clearly an unenlightened viewpoint! Since my elder son, 10 years ago, when he was 10, successfully installed Win3.0 without my advice, knowledge, or consent, on one of my machines. It worked as well as that generation of OS ever did. > > I was utterly flabbergasted by this, so much that I was rendered > speechless. > Both Windows and the popular varieties of LINUX are pretty easy to install these days. However, Windows suffers greatly from the fact that it has tried to maintain the usefulness of those applications that were written for and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. My brief encounter with UNIX systems (SUN) taught me that in order to have a functional system, the system has to be rebuilt every time there's a new module installed, AND all the software needs to be revised. That means about 6 weeks of downtime every time anything is revised, be it a serial port driver or an application patch. To have the system "up" most of the time, it required a man on duty 24/7. That meant a burn rate of $100K per year just to keep the OS working. I was REALLY grateful that I could unload that piece of junk onto my client. Do you think the average "user" wants that sort of overhead for his computer that he uses to download the latest nudies? > > -Dave McGuire > > From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Jan 12 12:09:54 2001 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFBE@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Pat, Thats where I'm at. Thanks for the confirmation. I have the high density SCSI pigtail that connects to the IBM badged Tadpole SCSI Floppy. I also have an IBM 7210 010, CDROM drive which is SCSI, but has the big D50 SCSI connectors. So the question is: With the right "adapter cable" from high density SCSI to D50 cable connect, will the N40 identify and use the IBM 7210 010? I really do appreciate your best efforts so far. I saw the release note suggesting that this 3.2.5 was cut back to fit in the laptop environment. I Have 32 M Ram an an 810MByte Hard drive. Screen support, scaling, and graphics character sets seem to be some of the Unit Specific features of this model. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Pat Barron [mailto:pat@transarc.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:38 AM To: Truthan,Larry Cc: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Truthan,Larry wrote: > The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub > menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language > select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I > am not making headway with your suggestion. I poked around and found a document that might help you: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RS/6000 N40 Laptop * Setting the System to Service Mode: 1. Press the key sequence [Pause][R] to reset the N40 (or power it off). 2. Then interrupt with [Pause][K] key sequence as soon as the IBM logo appears. 3. After several seconds, a language selection menu will appear; select appropriate language. 4. Then press 99 to go to the main menu 5. Select #7 (Change Soft-Keyswitch Setting). 6. Select #3 (Service). 7. Then press 99 to go to the main menu. 8. Select #10 to start the boot off the CD. * Limitations: > The 7007-N40 is supported by a special N40 version of AIX 3.2.5. The 7007-N40 is NOT supported at AIX V4. > The support for the 7007-N40 and N40 AIX 3.2.5 has been withdrawn, thus questions are answered on a best effort basis. * Information > Software maintenance on this system can be done by booting off the AIX 3.2.5 for N40 cdrom. To do this, attach the cdrom drive to the SCSI bus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You already knew most of this, but I'm sending it along in case it might help. --Pat. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 12 12:09:33 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <14943.14379.827417.165212@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: Re: Nuke Richmond (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: > I dunno, man. I'm a NetBSD person myself, and not a Linux fanatic, >but I installed DeadRat 6.2 on a machine a few days ago...it was We need to use a bit of care with our name changing. I was just about to go look for DeadRat, thinking it sounds kind of nice and I really didn't want to use redhat, then it sort of dawned on me. The beauty of *nix right now is that its a bit of a chore to install, no formal support, etc. and that leaves the door open for consultants et al to make money selling, installing, and supporting it. Not a bad business model really. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 12 12:16:09 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <003d01c07cbd$acd9ec40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: >> Now thats true, but *nix keeps getting better and better. >> >At what? I can't provide details, I just opened the wrong end of the rice crispy box. Not too bad on the face of it, but the other end was already open, with only the cat pleased with the results. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 12 12:19:29 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: Re: Nuke Richmond (Richard Erlacher) References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> <3A5F13E5.F42742BC@coin.org> <003501c07cbd$823a5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <14943.19121.167082.446450@phaduka.neurotica.com> Whew...sorry Richard, there's just so much flame bait in here I'm just going to pretend I didn't read it. And I'm not even a Linux fanatic. -Dave McGuire On January 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > All these complaints about how things are won't fix a thing! > > If the LINUX community were interested in providing a service, that is, a > service for anyone other than themselves, they'd have done the up-to-now > missing 90% of the work and cleaned up and documented their software. > Instead, you have a terrible mess of code with comments that hve been > irrelevant and incorrect for the last 25 revisions, yet nobody's been > willing to delete them. Generally, design and coding is about 2% of the > job, debugging is another 3%, cleanup is about 5% and thorough and accurate > documentation is about 90. > > >From what I've seen so far, the LINUX community, though well-intentioned, > has done little to provide tools useable by the masses. > > Instead of lighting that "one candle" they'd rather personalize their > frustration, resulting, BTW, from their own lack of application effort, > targeting Bill Gates, whose policies are really no different from those of > any corporate leader. They're supposed to outdo the competition, trip them > up, confound their efforts to acquire market share, and just generally try > to do them in. Gates and Co have done well. What's more, for every LINUX > user who's even remotely satisfied with what he has, there are thousands of > Windows-users out there who love their OS. One difference, however, is that > they (the Windows users) don't have to spend their lives stroking the OS > just to keep it alive. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Tinker" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:25 AM > Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > > > "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > > > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > > > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far > to > > > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > > > > > Wim > > > > Don't forget the opportunity lost due to M$ predations. Gates didn't > invent > > software. He pulled the rug out from under a lot of good effort, using > > everyone else's work, but trying to protect his own. He poked his finger > in > > the eye of standards wherever possible. Standard layers will be the > foundation > > of future system elaboration. The fundamental contradiction Gates had to > get > > around, was that between "information age" and "proprietory software". It > is > > the "rising tide lifts all boats" problem. What is the value of wealth, > unless > > you are richer than the next guy? If everybody is rich, who will pick up > the > > garbage? When people started passing around copies of his BASIC, Gates > > realized the problem, and the solution. > > > > -- John Tinker > > > > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Jan 12 12:21:46 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: Re: Nuke Richmond (Richard Erlacher) References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> <14943.14379.827417.165212@phaduka.neurotica.com> <004301c07cbe$a4a6d000$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <14943.19258.843165.580548@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > problem is ... you STILL have to deal with the OS. Moreover, there are few You do? Hmm. That's news to me. Unless "dealing with the OS" means "not reinstalling the OS every time some application blows up". > "nice-n-easy" applications for doing what's considered "useful work" in most > environments. What's more, the general trend in the Non-commercial > (GNU/LINUX/... ) environment seems to be toward "good enough" and not toward > getting it right. Applications are coming. A few are already here. It's taking a while. How long has the Microsoft world had to develop its suite of applications? -Dave McGuire From red at bears.org Fri Jan 12 12:39:04 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <14943.19121.167082.446450@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: You know, I just noticed that---aside from this thread being utterly tiresome and pointless---somebody has a bizarre vendetta against the capital of Virginia. 'nuff said. ok r. From frederik at freddym.org Fri Jan 12 11:53:52 2001 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! >Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on >this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by >tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to >much work still to make it fit for the masses. I wouldn't be that sure. My mother is a non-experienced computer _user_, and she got a Linux CD once. It was SuSE 7.0 She tried to install it, and at the next day she wrote me an E-Mail where she said that she has a new OS now (she couldn't remember the name "Linux", but that doesn't matter). She just booted from the SuSE 7.0 CD, started Yast2 and clicked through the installation. It worked. Just my $0.02. But actually it's a real childishness. This OS-War between Windows and Unix exists a long time and it will exist a long time. My personal opinion is if you use an operating system, and you can work with it, it's fine. I don't like Windows either, and I don't work with it anymore, but that's another thing. Best Regards, Freddy -- Geek Code 3.1: GCS s+: a--- C+++ UBOU+++ P-- E--- W++ N w--- V++ PGP- t? 5? tv ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, IRIX, Tru64, OpenVMS, Ultrix, BeOS, Linux From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Jan 12 12:51:10 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 12, 2001 10:09:33 am" Message-ID: <200101121851.f0CIpBu01003@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> > The beauty of *nix right now is that its a bit of a chore to install, no > formal support, etc. and that leaves the door open for consultants et al to > make money selling, installing, and supporting it. Not a bad business model > really. A couple of plugs on easy installing Linux. Mandrake Caldera EDesktop 2.4 Corel v2 and of course the plug for FreeBSD 4.2. If you want a commercially supported version all of the above and Red Hat do sell support directly. Solaris is available for x86 for about $100 (support extra) and works ok -- but the hardware supported is MINIMAL. I just put Mandrake up here after struggling with WinNT for two days. Works fine. They've even got a MandrakeUpdate utility like the Microsoft Windows Update utility. I still prefer FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD for server use. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Jan 12 13:02:26 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Patching running systems In-Reply-To: <004901c07cc2$57eca4c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from Richard Erlacher at "Jan 12, 2001 11:06:10 am" Message-ID: <200101121902.f0CJ2Qd01032@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> > Both Windows and the popular varieties of LINUX are pretty easy to install > these days. However, Windows suffers greatly from the fact that it has > tried to maintain the usefulness of those applications that were written for > and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. My brief > encounter with UNIX systems (SUN) taught me that in order to have a > functional system, the system has to be rebuilt every time there's a new > module installed, AND all the software needs to be revised. That means > about 6 weeks of downtime every time anything is revised, be it a serial > port driver or an application patch. To have the system "up" most of the > time, it required a man on duty 24/7. That meant a burn rate of $100K per > year just to keep the OS working. I was REALLY grateful that I could unload > that piece of junk onto my client. Do you think the average "user" wants > that sort of overhead for his computer that he uses to download the latest > nudies? > > > > -Dave McGuire Boy... that's pretty surprising since the SUN Ultra10's here are running 5 year old Solaris 2.6 (with the y2k and recommended patches from Sun). Was this back in the Sun 3 days with SunOS under v4.1? I've never seen this in 13 years of Sys Admin and 20 in the business. My stuff is up over 6 months at a time (usually rebooted for lab moves, ups battery problems, and power failures. I've got 6 months on an old FreeBSD box which I decommissioned. Would've been at least two years if I left it running in the corner. I've got Sparc's running SunOS 4.1.4 with the Y2k patches. The uptime is pretty good. Time to patch to was a couple of hours per Sun. The Solaris boxes patch right up with a shell script and the only downtime involved is the 5 minutes of reboot. I patch 'em all about twice per year when things are slow (between Christmas and New Years). I do them all in a couple of hours... from one window to each desktop. Type reboot when done and it's finished. The SunOS y2k was done manually -- per patch scripts run and then the changed files were moved to a tar file which dropped on top of each machine at single user. Machine specific tweaks were applied and they were rebooted -- time 15 minutes/Sun once per machine and about 3 hours testing and verifying the Sun patches. Not quite as nice as RT11's PATCH and SIPP on PDP11's or VMSUPDATE... but OK. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 12 12:55:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20 In-Reply-To: <2478.412T2200T496025optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 12, 1 00:49:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3978 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010112/af549078/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jan 12 11:51:41 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Ease of Use (was Re: Nuke Richmond) In-Reply-To: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010112114132.0197d800@208.226.86.10> At 11:02 AM 1/12/2001 +0100, W.B.(Wim) Hofman wrote: >Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on >this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by >tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to >much work still to make it fit for the masses. This argument seems compelling when first read, and then quickly becomes specious when explored in any depth. If you were to hand a housewife *ANY* PC with only a WinME or Win2K CD and nothing actually on the hard drive, she would be hard pressed to be surfing Internet sites the next morning. If you hand her a DELL PC with WinME "pre-installed" it becomes easier, and it is certainly no more difficult if that PC has been pre-installed with UNIX/KDE or some other variant. The issue will always come when she goes to Best Buy or CompUSA to get software and there isn't an isle with the software she wants in it. I actually think the way to crush Microsoft is quite straight forward, build testable standards and bullet proof installs that allow mere mortals to create the best environment for themselves. At least put together an OEM package for the likes of Dell and Gateway such that they can give the same "out of box" experience to their customers with good software as they can with Windows. Finally, whine all you want about Windows it was was the ram rod of windows that made it economically practical to build 100 million computers exactly the same. Linux wouldn't exist if it still cost $10,000 to get a "home" computer that was powerful enough to run it. --Chuck (And just between you me and the rest of the world, if GPL hadn't existed, Open Source software would be a _lot_ further along than it is today. And since GPL == rms I tend to blame Richard) From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Fri Jan 12 14:08:25 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <200101121851.f0CIpBu01003@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000301c07cd3$6ca748a0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> OK, me too, I can't resist. I feel I have to say something here. Nothing prepared in advance, even though I have to deal with MS shortcomings all the time. I just had to reload NT because Explorer "Gave Up" trying to display file names, it's most important function. The burns are there all the time, as are the constant upgrades to give you another poorly fleshed out feature. Some persistent shortcomings that come to mind are: Shortcuts, that when browsed erase the "Save As" filename with a useless lnk name. The "Universal Naming Convention" that doesn't work with most utilities, including Find, even though the documentation states proudly: "Supporting the UNC paths when dealing with file names is another way for an application to work seamlessly in a network environment. UNC paths allow logical connections to network devices without the need to specifically reference a network drive letter. The system will be able to locate the network server and path with the UNC name even over a modem connection. The UNC describes network servers and share points on those servers. UNC names start with two backslashes followed by the server name. All other fields in the name are separated by a single backslash." In Unix, NFS and symlinks have been around for (nearly) decades and work with everything. A big "Yeah Rite" on that seamlessness there, Redmondians. Then there's Help and Search utilities that can't find MS documents by their own titles, and on and on.... John A. From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Jan 12 13:54:25 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: NEC Multisync Color JC-1401P3A In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A5F1AA1.31504.1B1E72@localhost> > > >adaptor cable for it to do VGA. I have the adaptor > >>hack and a bunch of specs from NECs old page on this model that I > >>could send you if you like. > > > >My guess is that quite a few of us on the list could use at least the > >basic info on this monitor, why not just post it, or give a link to > >it. > > Here's NEC's web area for the older discontinued models....quite a > large amount of information is available using the pull-down menus > once you get into the specific monitor's area. > > http://support.necmitsubishi.com/nec/original/index.htm > > The pin-outs for the connectors are avialable at this page in > the area (I broke out of the frame to get the exact URL): > > http://support.necmitsubishi.com/nec/original/ms1/cable.htm > > Hope this helps those that are interested. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Great. I did a search for this and went back to the Aussie site to see if it was there. It never fails to amaze me how these big companies can hide their old stuff. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jan 12 14:08:08 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Unknown 8" floppy drive Message-ID: I came across the following 8" floppy disk drive in a standalone enclosure. labelled Reformater Conversion system F09 Microtech Exports It has a single cable connector on the back. Any information would be appreciated. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jan 12 14:02:09 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Ease of Use (was Re: Nuke Richmond) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010112114132.0197d800@208.226.86.10> References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010112135819.00c82c30@pc> At 11:51 AM 1/12/01 -0600, Chuck McManis wrote: >(And just between you me and the rest of the world, if GPL hadn't existed, Open Source software would be a _lot_ further along than it is today. And since GPL == rms I tend to blame Richard) Offhand I'd agree... but I'd love to hear more of your explanation for why you think this. Do you know Larry McVoy? He was a fellow Comp-Sci basement hacker at the UW-Madison when I was there in the early 80s: http://www.linux-mag.com/2000-04/opensource_evol_04.html - John From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 12 13:12:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <003501c07cbd$823a5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Windows-users out there who love their OS. One difference, however, is that > they (the Windows users) don't have to spend their lives stroking the OS > just to keep it alive. You meant this the other way around, didn't you? I have to spend several frustrating minutes each week "stroking" Win98 to keep it alive (i.e. rebooting after a recurring crash) whereas my Linux server just keeps humming the background, providing my web server, telnet server, e-mail server, file server, and firewall. All I do on my Win98 box is surf the web, listen to Napster, and type documents, and it can't even handle THAT without tripping over itself. Windows is like a retarded child. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jan 12 14:20:10 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <000301c07cd3$6ca748a0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <200101121851.f0CIpBu01003@bg-tc-ppp836.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010112141529.02737260@pc> At 03:08 PM 1/12/01 -0500, John Allain wrote: >The "Universal Naming Convention" that doesn't work with > most utilities, including Find, even though the > documentation states proudly: > > "Supporting the UNC paths when dealing with file names > is another way for an application to work seamlessly > in a network environment. That's what you get for believing the documentation... and I believe that's a Truth that could be called Classic in that it's been true for more than ten years. :-) It's precise: it doesn't say "all apps, including old DOS apps", it says an app can be made to handle UNCs. My pet peeve, though, is that Notepad, Wordpad and Telnet don't understand the simplest keyboard chords such as cut, paste, CTRL/END, etc., and all the permuted and perverted methods of command-line usage in Microsoft's shipping products, which range from CP/M-ish to DEC HELP-ish to Unix-like to the quaint era of DOS utilities written by people who were never exposed to Unix. - John From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 12 13:16:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <004901c07cc2$57eca4c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Moreover, I have had a couple of Windows machines (still have one, the other > went with my elder son) that seldom if ever have to be restarted. Of > course, they're portables, so the hardware environment is much better > controlled than in a desktop, and the inherent limitations mitigate the risk > of unfavorable hardware/software interactions. I buy nothing but Dell now, a good system that is as tightly integrated with Windows as any machine out there. I have one at home, and one at the office. Yet I have to reboot each on average once a week. > and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. My brief > encounter with UNIX systems (SUN) taught me that in order to have a > functional system, the system has to be rebuilt every time there's a new > module installed, AND all the software needs to be revised. That means > about 6 weeks of downtime every time anything is revised, be it a serial > port driver or an application patch. To have the system "up" most of the Bullshit. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 12 15:06:53 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 12, 1 08:15:43 am" Message-ID: <200101122106.NAA11226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Now that's what I call an "elegant solution" :-) > >Wish I could find an S.O. that is willing to do lawn work ... > > I could introduce you to one of my gardeners and we could see what happens? Naturally, that dependes on the gardeners. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why does Santa wear red underwear? Because he does all his laundry together. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jan 12 15:40:01 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <20010112.154001.-326713.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:12:29 -0800 (PST) Sellam Ismail writes: > > Windows is like a retarded child. I always though of it as more like an idiot savant: You're amazed how something *that* brain-damaged can actually (sometimes) deliver a passable performance. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Jan 12 16:02:56 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond (Long) Message-ID: Since we are all in asbestos shorts/panties mode I might as well join in. My neighbors think I know all about new computers because I have a garage full of old computers. My most recent inquiries are similar to the following. Neighbor Q: I was trying to print a word document that I hadn't saved when my computer locked up. My Q: What else was running? Neighbor A: All this stuff that runs when my computer starts up. My Q: Any other programs? Neighbor A: Well I was also dialed into AOL and running Napster. Neighbor Q: Don't you have these same problems. My A: I don't listen to music when I program and I don't use Napster. My Q: When is the last time you purged any files? Neighbor A: Does it do it automatically? My Q: When is the last time you did a backup? Neighbor A: Does it do it automatically? My Q: Did you save the document? Neighbor A: Does it do it automatically? I just spent 2 hours typing and now I'm ready to print. When I'm finished editing I'll save the final copy. My A: Leave it alone and I'll look at it when I get a chance. I visit. My Q: Why do you have both Norton and Macafe antivirus running? Neighbor A: I need virus protection they start automatically. MY Q: Why do you have AOL, AIM, and MSN running? Neighbor A: Some came installed and I use AOL for access to internet, they start automatically. My Q: Why run Napster while you're typing? Neighbor A: I always listen to music when I type, the computer is closer than the stereo so I run Napster System has 25 GB disk, 256 MB memory and 56% of resources available, no keyboard response. My suggestion: Don't do more than 1 thing at a time and you will not have any problems. Neighbor Q: I though computers allowed you to do lots of things at the same time? Neighbor Q: I really want to play games, download music and listen to it at the same time MY Q: Do you want to burn CD's? Neighbor A: Yes MY Q: Do you want to scan pictures and print them? Neighbor A: Yes My A: Get a CRAY computer Neighbor Q: How much are they? I feel much better now that I've vented. People want a black box that works without them thinking, and that's what they have been promised by Dell, Gateway and Compaq. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 12 16:19:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <200101122106.NAA11226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > >Now that's what I call an "elegant solution" :-) > > >Wish I could find an S.O. that is willing to do lawn work ... > > > > I could introduce you to one of my gardeners and we could see what happens? > > Naturally, that dependes on the gardeners. :-P California gardners tend to be immigrant Mexican males (or in the case of my dad before he retired from the business, immigrant Arabic males :), so don't get your hopes up. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 17:30:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: Message-ID: <003801c07cef$aeb688c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Someone obviously concluded that nuking Richmond might actually do some good ... particularly if it missed a mite and hit the capitol building with about 25 MTons during the state of the union address. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > You know, I just noticed that---aside from this thread being utterly > tiresome and pointless---somebody has a bizarre vendetta against the > capital of Virginia. > > 'nuff said. > > ok > r. > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 12 16:26:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Neighbor Q: I though computers allowed you to do lots of things at the same > time? > Neighbor Q: I really want to play games, download music and listen to it at > the same time > > MY Q: Do you want to burn CD's? > Neighbor A: Yes > MY Q: Do you want to scan pictures and print them? > Neighbor A: Yes > > My A: Get a CRAY computer > Neighbor Q: How much are they? > > I feel much better now that I've vented. > People want a black box that works without them thinking, and that's what > they have been promised by Dell, Gateway and Compaq. And for the most part that's what Windows delivers, albeit sometimes very poorly. I can be playing Casino99, listening to Napster tunes, surfing the web, checking my e-mail, have a telnet session open, and have Outlook Express open, all concurrently. But then when I close down Casino99 while Napster is playing a tune, Napster crashes. Then it causes other shit to go haywire sometimes, resulting in the need to reboot. This is on a Dell Dimension 4100. A nice box. If I would trade convenience for stability and run Linux instead, I could do all these things, only faster, better, and cheaper (in terms of less medication for my high blood pressure caused by every Windows reboot). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 17:43:39 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl><3A5F13E5.F42742BC@coin.org><003501c07cbd$823a5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <14943.19121.167082.446450@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <004201c07cf1$7da98c80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Just keep in mind, that I've no axe to grind, except that I think the discussion of LINUX is OT. After all, it's not 10 years old yet, right? My real point is that there's no benefit to anyone in all this complaining. People will decide what they prefer. Their reasons aren't always clear, but they don't have to be. Microsoft products seem to meet the needs of the masses, and that, in itself is a benefit to us all, since they (the masses) are happy to buy millions of identical computers and try to make them do what each of them wants. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > Whew...sorry Richard, there's just so much flame bait in here I'm just > going to pretend I didn't read it. And I'm not even a Linux fanatic. > > -Dave McGuire > > On January 12, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > All these complaints about how things are won't fix a thing! > > > > If the LINUX community were interested in providing a service, that is, a > > service for anyone other than themselves, they'd have done the up-to-now > > missing 90% of the work and cleaned up and documented their software. > > Instead, you have a terrible mess of code with comments that hve been > > irrelevant and incorrect for the last 25 revisions, yet nobody's been > > willing to delete them. Generally, design and coding is about 2% of the > > job, debugging is another 3%, cleanup is about 5% and thorough and accurate > > documentation is about 90. > > > > >From what I've seen so far, the LINUX community, though well-intentioned, > > has done little to provide tools useable by the masses. > > > > Instead of lighting that "one candle" they'd rather personalize their > > frustration, resulting, BTW, from their own lack of application effort, > > targeting Bill Gates, whose policies are really no different from those of > > any corporate leader. They're supposed to outdo the competition, trip them > > up, confound their efforts to acquire market share, and just generally try > > to do them in. Gates and Co have done well. What's more, for every LINUX > > user who's even remotely satisfied with what he has, there are thousands of > > Windows-users out there who love their OS. One difference, however, is that > > they (the Windows users) don't have to spend their lives stroking the OS > > just to keep it alive. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Tinker" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:25 AM > > Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > > > > > > "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" wrote: > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > > > > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > > > > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far > > to > > > > much work still to make it fit for the masses. > > > > > > > > Wim > > > > > > Don't forget the opportunity lost due to M$ predations. Gates didn't > > invent > > > software. He pulled the rug out from under a lot of good effort, using > > > everyone else's work, but trying to protect his own. He poked his finger > > in > > > the eye of standards wherever possible. Standard layers will be the > > foundation > > > of future system elaboration. The fundamental contradiction Gates had to > > get > > > around, was that between "information age" and "proprietory software". It > > is > > > the "rising tide lifts all boats" problem. What is the value of wealth, > > unless > > > you are richer than the next guy? If everybody is rich, who will pick up > > the > > > garbage? When people started passing around copies of his BASIC, Gates > > > realized the problem, and the solution. > > > > > > -- John Tinker > > > > > > > > > > > From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 12 17:50:01 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration References: Message-ID: <3A5F9828.BEFAE666@rain.org> I just got a cable modem installed yesterday and would like to put something in place so I can access it from several computers. My preference is to use what I have on hand rather than go out and just buy a router. I have a SparcStation 2 with Solaris 7, of course some Pentium (and below) computers, etc. available but I am clueless on what type of software could be used to set this up. I would also like to put up a web server that most likely would only be accessable (for the time being) from inside. My knowledge in the area of setting something like this up is pretty small. Any suggestions? Thanks. From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 17:53:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: Message-ID: <005001c07cf2$d0a24840$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've heard about this sort of behavior from time to time, but since I don't see it on those systems that actually have the top on, e.g. the notebooks, etc, I have to conclude that it's a result of my constant fiddling with the system. My Winbook, in spite of occasonally considerable external resources, has never had to be rebooted because it stepped on its (lesser appendage), though it's had to be rebooted for updates, from time to time. Unfortunately, I like the desktops better, because it doesn't strain my eyes so much. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Windows-users out there who love their OS. One difference, however, is that > > they (the Windows users) don't have to spend their lives stroking the OS > > just to keep it alive. > > You meant this the other way around, didn't you? I have to spend several > frustrating minutes each week "stroking" Win98 to keep it alive (i.e. > rebooting after a recurring crash) whereas my Linux server just keeps > humming the background, providing my web server, telnet server, e-mail > server, file server, and firewall. All I do on my Win98 box is surf the > web, listen to Napster, and type documents, and it can't even handle THAT > without tripping over itself. > > Windows is like a retarded child. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 17:55:05 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <005601c07cf3$16099dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I don't know what that says about DELL. My Winbook ran for over a year without ever being shut down. Its main purpose was to serve as the comm station while my modem was on load to my mother. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for the replacement battery, since I ruined the battery in the process. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:16 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Moreover, I have had a couple of Windows machines (still have one, the other > > went with my elder son) that seldom if ever have to be restarted. Of > > course, they're portables, so the hardware environment is much better > > controlled than in a desktop, and the inherent limitations mitigate the risk > > of unfavorable hardware/software interactions. > > I buy nothing but Dell now, a good system that is as tightly integrated > with Windows as any machine out there. I have one at home, and one at the > office. Yet I have to reboot each on average once a week. > > > and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. My brief > > encounter with UNIX systems (SUN) taught me that in order to have a > > functional system, the system has to be rebuilt every time there's a new > > module installed, AND all the software needs to be revised. That means > > about 6 weeks of downtime every time anything is revised, be it a serial > > port driver or an application patch. To have the system "up" most of the > > Bullshit. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 17:57:45 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <004401c07cf4$0206d300$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher > >That's what we pay these senior decision-makers for, folks. They try to >figure out how to get the other guy out of the way. They try to find legal >ways to slit his proverbial, if not literal, throat. Messrs Gates would nto know ethics if they bit him on the arse. As to legal he {microsoft} would try to suborne legality where possible and did every chance. Those that don't remember the PC cloes with he "DOS jumper" would argue that Billy was a good boy. Some of us remember! Allison From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Jan 12 18:08:23 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond (Long) [Mike] References: Message-ID: <3A5F9C71.CA4E61F8@eoni.com> So... did you recover his document??? (Ducking and running...) ;o) Jim From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 12 18:22:59 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: DOS Jumper References: <004401c07cf4$0206d300$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A5F9FE3.E36D2B3F@rain.org> ajp166 wrote: > > Those that don't remember the PC cloes with he "DOS jumper" would argue > that Billy was a good boy. Some of us remember! I don't recall a "DOS jumper", at least by that name. What is it? From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 18:34:20 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <004401c07cf4$0206d300$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <006601c07cf8$91d0fca0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Neither would the pres of GM, GE, or, for that matter, the U.S.A. That's not what running a big organization responsible to the stockholders is about. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 4:57 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > > Messrs Gates would nto know ethics if they bit him on the arse. As to > legal > he {microsoft} would try to suborne legality where possible > and did every chance. > > > Allison > From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Jan 12 17:25:31 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <005601c07cf3$16099dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Check your FCC code. Last time I looked, Dell and Winbook laptops were made by the same company in Taiwan. -- Doug On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I don't know what that says about DELL. My Winbook ran for over a year > without ever being shut down. Its main purpose was to serve as the comm > station while my modem was on load to my mother. Unfortunately, I'm still > waiting for the replacement battery, since I ruined the battery in the > process. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 12:16 PM > Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > > > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Moreover, I have had a couple of Windows machines (still have one, the > other > > > went with my elder son) that seldom if ever have to be restarted. Of > > > course, they're portables, so the hardware environment is much better > > > controlled than in a desktop, and the inherent limitations mitigate the > risk > > > of unfavorable hardware/software interactions. > > > > I buy nothing but Dell now, a good system that is as tightly integrated > > with Windows as any machine out there. I have one at home, and one at the > > office. Yet I have to reboot each on average once a week. > > > > > and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. My brief > > > encounter with UNIX systems (SUN) taught me that in order to have a > > > functional system, the system has to be rebuilt every time there's a new > > > module installed, AND all the software needs to be revised. That means > > > about 6 weeks of downtime every time anything is revised, be it a serial > > > port driver or an application patch. To have the system "up" most of > the > > > > Bullshit. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Jan 12 18:52:41 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration In-Reply-To: <3A5F9828.BEFAE666@rain.org> Message-ID: <20010113005520.JYSO21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Funny you should ask at this time. I just put Another Warp-based router in at a hospital-client of mine. It routes a gigabit fiber optic channel connected to a T1 a few miles away. Neat huh? You don't need OS/2 to do it though. NetBSD, OpenBSD, or Linux will do. You want to enable NAT which stands for Network Address Translation. It is one of the easiest and most transparent ways. I don't know if Solaris comes with NAT but the others do. Once you get Nat routing going on your Sparcstation, all you do is set the Sparcstation's IP address to be the default router on each computer you want to surf on. Regards, Jeff In <3A5F9828.BEFAE666@rain.org>, on 01/12/01 at 07:52 PM, Marvin said: >I just got a cable modem installed yesterday and would like to put >something in place so I can access it from several computers. My >preference is to use what I have on hand rather than go out and just buy >a router. I have a SparcStation 2 with Solaris 7, of course some Pentium >(and below) computers, etc. available but I am clueless on what type of >software could be used to set this up. I would also like to put up a web >server that most likely would only be accessable (for the time being) >from inside. My knowledge in the area of setting something like this up >is pretty small. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jtinker at coin.org Fri Jan 12 19:11:17 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <004401c07cf4$0206d300$3f779a8d@ajp166> <006601c07cf8$91d0fca0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A5FAB34.5627D819@coin.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Neither would the pres of GM, GE, or, for that matter, the U.S.A. > > That's not what running a big organization responsible to the stockholders > is about. So why not let them make their own excuses for being pricks? -- John Tinker From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Jan 12 19:16:32 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:08 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010113012752.KTNY21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> My OS/2 box routes internet traffic for seven other machines pulling a total of 770kbps off my cable modem while running this mailer, eight or more copies of netscape, playing MPEGS off of the internet and burning a cd all at once. I routinely have uptimes measured in weeks not hours though since this is also my personal computer in addition to being the burner and router, I mess with it a lot. Swapping cdrom drives or cards requires a reboot..... My point is that OS/2 is everything Microsoft has been saying both Win9x and NT are combined plus a lot (like a good, stable design). It is easier to use than any other operating system short of 9x and has a FAR better GUI than Windows or anything else at all. I've heard even really smart people (who obviosly had never laid eyes on OS/2) say that 'it sucks' or other derogotory things. This is mostly FUD and propoganda from MS, but also, IBM couldn't sell and operating system if they included a free PC with it. Regards, Jeff >And for the most part that's what Windows delivers, albeit sometimes very >poorly. I can be playing Casino99, listening to Napster tunes, surfing >the web, checking my e-mail, have a telnet session open, and have Outlook >Express open, all concurrently. But then when I close down Casino99 >while Napster is playing a tune, Napster crashes. Then it causes other >shit to go haywire sometimes, resulting in the need to reboot. This is >on a Dell Dimension 4100. A nice box. >If I would trade convenience for stability and run Linux instead, I could >do all these things, only faster, better, and cheaper (in terms of less >medication for my high blood pressure caused by every Windows reboot). >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 12 16:50:15 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <000501c07d0c$2fa1db30$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ---- Original Message ----- From: "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 5:02 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > Folks, > > Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on > this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by > tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to > much work still to make it fit for the masses. You can't do that with the Windows CD either. I still have customers who pay me to reinstall win95 and load software for them. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 18:37:44 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <00f901c07d0e$5e70d180$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >The beauty of *nix right now is that its a bit of a chore to install, no >formal support, etc. and that leaves the door open for consultants et al to >make money selling, installing, and supporting it. Not a bad business model >really. I take an aside to this. The current crop of BSD and Linux flavored unix like OSs seem to be as easy to install as W9x. With one caveat, the unix camp is steeped in 30+ years of unix culture. It is this culture that makes if difficult as it's simply different! If you get past the difference and can adopt it's cultural language over prior biases it's fairly forthright and simple to install. Then again I say this as W95 was a royal PITA the first time compared to VMS and other DEC OSs I was familiar with. Then again creating a BIOS for CP/M was pretty intimidating at one time too. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 18:41:05 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <00fa01c07d0e$612e43d0$3f779a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- > Applications are coming. A few are already here. It's taking a >while. How long has the Microsoft world had to develop its >suite of applications? > > -Dave McGuire One big difference, everyone knows what apps are wanted and needed. The rest of the work is simply coding. The Unix like users are about to get a log awaited bonanza for the log standing GUI enviornment. And the answer still is who cares what OS... so long as it works and the APPLICATIONS do what is asked. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 20:22:13 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Ease of Use (was Re: Nuke Richmond) Message-ID: <00fb01c07d0e$652dfa20$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >Finally, whine all you want about Windows it was was the ram rod of windows >that made it economically practical to build 100 million computers exactly >the same. Linux wouldn't exist if it still cost $10,000 to get a "home" >computer that was powerful enough to run it. > >--Chuck My $0.02 is: -That the OS if stable it's meaningless whos the maker. -The applications that support it are everything. -Applications that suppost common standard for text, images, datatypes and related types will dominate. That's the OS that wins... Users run apps, everyone else argues about the OS. Now with that said. I hate MS, I run NT4/WS with minimal MS apps. NT4 is pretty decent and plenty stable. I dont run Office9x or Off2k as it's buggy. Like every OS I've used, a good OS can be compromized by bad apps and well behaved apps will make the weakest OS look good. In the end a Robust OS makes poorly written and misbehaving apps more tolerable though still unacceptable. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 20:43:20 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <00fc01c07d0e$68d9c410$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail > >You meant this the other way around, didn't you? I have to spend several >frustrating minutes each week "stroking" Win98 to keep it alive (i.e. Well, disperse the frelling defective app! W98(hopefully 2nd edition or ME) in the work environment has proven acceptable and solid once the buggy apps were booted. We even run office97 on it reliabily. Oh, the worst offender IEV5! For the 98 users find 98LITE it can help get the bugs out. >server, file server, and firewall. All I do on my Win98 box is surf the >web, listen to Napster, and type documents, and it can't even handle THAT >without tripping over itself. As if any of those are trivial tasks. Napster is not simple nor small. As to your text problem, I'll bet your using one of the lightweight word processors, lightweight these days is an install file or 9-10 megabytes. Maybe the worst offendor and virus programming language WORD and it's VisualBasic. Why not surf the net with linux? Avoid the OS pain then. >Windows is like a retarded child. Now that's offensive, to the learning handicapped that is. I'd have compared Windows to Brussel Sprouts that were improperly cooked. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 20:48:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <00fd01c07d0e$6affd860$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >I buy nothing but Dell now, a good system that is as tightly integrated >with Windows as any machine out there. I have one at home, and one at the >office. Yet I have to reboot each on average once a week. FYI: my partners employer went all dell and they are far happier with them compared to DEC, compaq and Duratel. They dont seem to experience reboot problems save for when they run one rather badly behaved ACCESS based application. The Access hack (must have been written by script kiddies) even has a sloppy user interface. Don't blame the Cow for soggy cereal unless the Cow makes it. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 20:59:17 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) Message-ID: <00fe01c07d0e$6d355600$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail > >And for the most part that's what Windows delivers, albeit sometimes very >poorly. I can be playing Casino99, listening to Napster tunes, surfing >the web, checking my e-mail, have a telnet session open, and have Outlook >Express open, all concurrently. But then when I close down Casino99 while >Napster is playing a tune, Napster crashes. Then it causes other shit to >go haywire sometimes, resulting in the need to reboot. This is on a Dell >Dimension 4100. A nice box. Makes little difference what box it is one or mor eof the apps are broken and killing others. Composted (yes cow dung is composted) as they are would they run better under VMS or on a Sun, likely not just the core dumps might be more interesting. Then if you also looked even on a "Real OS, (tm)" youd find they still buffer overflow, mem leak and leave garbage in memory or load broken drivers. Just a few of the far to common offencesI've seen. >If I would trade convenience for stability and run Linux instead, I could >do all these things, only faster, better, and cheaper (in terms of less >medication for my high blood pressure caused by every Windows reboot). Maybe, once you debug and recompile the apps. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 21:06:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Router Configuration Message-ID: <00ff01c07d0e$6dff0ea0$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: Marvin Subject: OT: Router Configuration >SparcStation 2 with Solaris 7, of course some Pentium (and below) computers, >etc. available but I am clueless on what type of software could be used to >set this up. I would also like to put up a web server that most likely would >only be accessable (for the time being) from inside. My knowledge in the >area of setting something like this up is pretty small. Any suggestions? >Thanks. Low end pentium running whatever you knew well. I've tried W95(custom install, minimal system) with AnalogX Proxy server on the DSL with good results with a 486dx/66 and 16mb ram. NT4/WS running analogX Proxy was better on the 486dx/66 FYI. There is LRP (Linux router project) and I'm sure FreeBSD and the right stuff works well for this too. Most anything works but what software is mostly a case of what you know (can buy) and and configure. NAT/Router/Bridge/proxy/firewall things do not that seem all that cpu intensive. Allison From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Jan 12 21:20:09 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl><3A5F13E5.F42742BC@coin.org><003501c07cbd$823a5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <14943.19121.167082.446450@phaduka.neurotica.com> <004201c07cf1$7da98c80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <02df01c07d0f$bbcba200$1ec7fec7@pcat> > Just keep in mind, that I've no axe to grind, except that I think the > discussion of LINUX is OT. After all, it's not 10 years old yet, right? > Actually, I think Linux first arrived in 1991. :) g. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 21:20:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: DOS Jumper Message-ID: <011a01c07d10$899a8d90$3f779a8d@ajp166> Back in the mid to later 80s when one of the vendors was selling PCs without MSdos they were forced by MS to make the system so it could not run dos. I think it was running SCO unix or Novell. I'm fuzzy on the details as during that time frame PCs, DOS and their ilk were not on my radar. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Marvin To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:49 PM Subject: DOS Jumper > > >ajp166 wrote: >> >> Those that don't remember the PC cloes with he "DOS jumper" would argue >> that Billy was a good boy. Some of us remember! > >I don't recall a "DOS jumper", at least by that name. What is it? > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 21:30:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <004401c07cf4$0206d300$3f779a8d@ajp166> <006601c07cf8$91d0fca0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A5FAB34.5627D819@coin.org> Message-ID: <001301c07d11$1db52260$1192fea9@idcomm.com> That's their job. They don't need an excuse. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tinker" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 6:11 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Neither would the pres of GM, GE, or, for that matter, the U.S.A. > > > > That's not what running a big organization responsible to the stockholders > > is about. > > So why not let them make their own excuses for being pricks? > > -- John Tinker > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 21:33:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) References: <20010113012752.KTNY21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <001901c07d11$9030b0c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> My one and only encounter with OS/2 was in '94 or so, and when I found that it took my system adminsitrator almost a whole day to install the contents of the five or six pounds of diskettes, I decided it would be my last. It took me about 45 minutes to restore the DOS/Win3.11. I guess it doesn't take much to kill an OS. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 6:16 PM Subject: Re: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) > My OS/2 box routes internet traffic for seven other machines pulling a > total of 770kbps off my cable modem while running this mailer, eight or > more copies of netscape, playing MPEGS off of the internet and burning a > cd all at once. I routinely have uptimes measured in weeks not hours > though since this is also my personal computer in addition to being the > burner and router, I mess with it a lot. Swapping cdrom drives or cards > requires a reboot..... > > My point is that OS/2 is everything Microsoft has been saying both Win9x > and NT are combined plus a lot (like a good, stable design). It is easier > to use than any other operating system short of 9x and has a FAR better > GUI than Windows or anything else at all. > > I've heard even really smart people (who obviosly had never laid eyes on > OS/2) say that 'it sucks' or other derogotory things. This is mostly FUD > and propoganda from MS, but also, IBM couldn't sell and operating system > if they included a free PC with it. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > >And for the most part that's what Windows delivers, albeit sometimes very > >poorly. I can be playing Casino99, listening to Napster tunes, surfing > >the web, checking my e-mail, have a telnet session open, and have Outlook > >Express open, all concurrently. But then when I close down Casino99 > >while Napster is playing a tune, Napster crashes. Then it causes other > >shit to go haywire sometimes, resulting in the need to reboot. This is > >on a Dell Dimension 4100. A nice box. > > >If I would trade convenience for stability and run Linux instead, I could > >do all these things, only faster, better, and cheaper (in terms of less > >medication for my high blood pressure caused by every Windows reboot). > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >http://www.vintage.org > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 12 21:37:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration In-Reply-To: <3A5F9828.BEFAE666@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Jan 12, 2001 03:50:01 PM Message-ID: <200101130337.TAA25185@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just got a cable modem installed yesterday and would like to put something > in place so I can access it from several computers. My preference is to use > what I have on hand rather than go out and just buy a router. I have a > SparcStation 2 with Solaris 7, of course some Pentium (and below) computers, > etc. available but I am clueless on what type of software could be used to > set this up. I would also like to put up a web server that most likely would > only be accessable (for the time being) from inside. My knowledge in the > area of setting something like this up is pretty small. Any suggestions? > Thanks. Key thing is you'll need two ethernet interfaces, so unless you've an Ethernet S-Bus board for the Sparc 2 it's out. Now do yourself a favor and look at this from the standpoint of security! Go to http://www.openbsd.org !!! Sure OpenBSD isn't as easy to setup as a Windows or Linux solution, BUT it's a LOT more secure! As in 3+ years without a remote exploit in the default install. I prefer Solaris or Linux, but for this type app I'll only use OpenBSD! BTW, OpenBSD should run on any of the platforms mentioned above. Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 21:28:14 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) Message-ID: <012b01c07d12$a4fdbe70$3f779a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >My point is that OS/2 is everything Microsoft has been saying both Win9x >and NT are combined plus a lot (like a good, stable design). It is easier >to use than any other operating system short of 9x and has a FAR better >GUI than Windows or anything else at all. Well, I've looked at only one version OS/2 V3 with all the goodies as of when it came out. Ran ok and all but apps for it were a bit thin. I plan to play more with it once I get it running TCP/IP and a eithernic. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 21:46:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl><3A5F13E5.F42742BC@coin.org><003501c07cbd$823a5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <14943.19121.167082.446450@phaduka.neurotica.com> <004201c07cf1$7da98c80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <02df01c07d0f$bbcba200$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: <002f01c07d13$6ca9eca0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, one could argue that since the system's newly built each time it's been installed, there are probably fewer than a dozen that are more than a year or two old. It's those differences that make the *nix versions difficult. The problem, really, is likely to subside somewhat. I perceive the problem to have been associated more with the rapid growth of the personal computer market than anything else. Normally, if you buy a FORD and are substantially dissatisfied with what you've got, when it's time to replace it, you buy from someone else. Well, that's not so easy in this market, but, if times are tough, and FORD is the only vendor you can afford, you hang onto what you've got, since it's the devil you know, versus the devil you don't, and wait for a significant change in what's available. With the swift uptake of computers and their software as the industry grew, people had little choice but to buy what was out there. Now that the market's nearing saturation, lots of folks will be more judicious about what they buy, and, in fact, whether they buy at all. Consequently, fewer people will be willing to buy the "new" stuff from the vendor who provided the buggy stuff they don't like but can get by with, until patches/other-fixes are offered. We inherited this tendency to buy defective software product on defective software product from Big Blue, which sold the hardware and leased the software. You weren't even allowed to fix it yourself. Those days are gone, God be thanked! Eventually, people will wise up and make the vendors fix the products they've already sold, if they are defective. That's one reason I still use the 10-year-old OrCAD for schematics. The newer stuff was not as capable and orders of magnitude more costly. If I weren't able to get my licenses for the basic Windows and Office stuff gratis, I'd continue to use the old stuff. At least I'll have learned how to work around the bugs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > > Just keep in mind, that I've no axe to grind, except that I think the > > discussion of LINUX is OT. After all, it's not 10 years old yet, right? > > > > Actually, I think Linux first arrived in 1991. :) > > g. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 12 21:48:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: DOS Jumper References: <011a01c07d10$899a8d90$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <003901c07d13$b209a100$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Wasn't that Columbia (or maybe Corona) that did that? I remember someone wanting to buy one to run XENIX just because you didn't have to pay for DOS when you bought it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: Re: DOS Jumper > Back in the mid to later 80s when one of the vendors was selling PCs > without MSdos they were forced by MS to make the system so it > could not run dos. I think it was running SCO unix or Novell. > > I'm fuzzy on the details as during that time frame PCs, DOS > and their ilk were not on my radar. > > Allison > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Friday, January 12, 2001 7:49 PM > Subject: DOS Jumper > > > > > > > >ajp166 wrote: > >> > >> Those that don't remember the PC cloes with he "DOS jumper" would > argue > >> that Billy was a good boy. Some of us remember! > > > >I don't recall a "DOS jumper", at least by that name. What is it? > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 12 21:48:39 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <02df01c07d0f$bbcba200$1ec7fec7@pcat> from "Gene Buckle" at Jan 12, 2001 07:20:09 PM Message-ID: <200101130348.TAA25316@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Just keep in mind, that I've no axe to grind, except that I think the > > discussion of LINUX is OT. After all, it's not 10 years old yet, right? > > > > Actually, I think Linux first arrived in 1991. :) October 1991 saw the release of Linux .10, then came .11, then in January '92 there was .12. Then the numbers took a big jump in February or March with the next release being .95. Of course at this time it was only a boot and root floppy image. There was the MCC distro shortly after, which was I believe 5 floppies. The first real distro in the modern sense was the SLS distro which arrived in early '93 if my memory serves me (still have the floppies for all these things in storage). The first SLS distro was only about 12-15 floppies, and my Internet bill that month was $200! Around July '92 saw the first release of X-Windows (X386) on Linux, and it only supported ET4000 based cards. I think the first very primitive networking support was at about the same time. So, until October Linux is still off topic. Zane From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Jan 12 21:46:57 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration In-Reply-To: <200101130337.TAA25185@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010113035332.NXHH21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> You don't NEED two nics to NAT. You can simply assign an Alias IP address (multiple ip's per nic). You can have as many as you want I think, but two should be no sweat. I DO USE TWO NICS in a router though. The reason is that Aliased IP's split the bandwidth in half and that is not good for performance. Regards, Jeff In <200101130337.TAA25185@shell1.aracnet.com>, on 01/12/01 at 10:46 PM, healyzh@aracnet.com said: >Key thing is you'll need two ethernet interfaces, so unless you've an >Ethernet S-Bus board for the Sparc 2 it's out. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 12 21:57:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <00f901c07d0e$5e70d180$3f779a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jan 12, 2001 07:37:44 PM Message-ID: <200101130357.TAA25437@shell1.aracnet.com> > I take an aside to this. The current crop of BSD and Linux flavored unix > like > OSs seem to be as easy to install as W9x. With one caveat, the unix > camp is steeped in 30+ years of unix culture. It is this culture that > makes > if difficult as it's simply different! If you get past the difference > and can adopt > it's cultural language over prior biases it's fairly forthright and > simple to install. > Then again I say this as W95 was a royal PITA the first time compared to > VMS and other DEC OSs I was familiar with. Then again creating a BIOS > for CP/M was pretty intimidating at one time too. > > Allison > It all depends on the person. I can install things such as Linux, OpenBSD, Solaris, OpenVMS, MacOS and RT-11 almost with my eyes closed, and the hardest part is waiting for the software to move from CD to HD (yes, even with RT-11). With any Windows variant I seem to have to dedicate a minimum of one day to cursing and fighting the garbage! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 12 22:08:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) In-Reply-To: <012b01c07d12$a4fdbe70$3f779a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jan 12, 2001 10:28:14 PM Message-ID: <200101130408.UAA25619@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well, I've looked at only one version OS/2 V3 with all the goodies as of > when it came out. Ran ok and all but apps for it were a bit thin. I I ran V1.3 - V3.0, when I bought a new Pentium 90 laptop in January '95 I put OS/2 V3.0 and Lotus Smartsuite for OS/2 (already owned by IBM at that time) on it. Lotus Smartsuite for OS/2 was so buggy it was virtually unusable, and it's document translation filters were hopeless. When Windows '95 came out I saw the writing on the wall for OS/2 and went out, bought a Mac PowerBook 520c and have't looked back. The Pentium 90 still runs OS/2 V3.0, Linux V1.2, MS-Dos 6.x/Win 3.11, and Win95. However, my Mom has had it since late '96 and has used it exclusivelly for Win95 mainly to run WordPerfect for Windows V5.2 (I've tried desperatly to get her to upgrade to a better version). A few months ago she bought an iBook to replace it (though she's still using it for WordPerfect for Windows V5.2). Is there a point to this rambling? Yes, there is! Applications! Specifically usable applications are what make or break a OS. If an OS doesn't run the Apps a person wants, they're unlikely to use that OS. Zane From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 12 21:29:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! Re: Nuke this off-topic flamefest! In-Reply-To: <005601c07cf3$16099dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I don't know what that says about DELL. My Winbook ran for over a year > without ever being shut down. Its main purpose was to serve as the comm > station while my modem was on load to my mother. Unfortunately, I'm still > waiting for the replacement battery, since I ruined the battery in the > process. It says all you ever did with your laptop was run a communications program, and that is a very simple task for Windows to perform on a sole basis. Open up 10 other applications concurrently and use them actively, then see how Windows holds up. If this is what Microsoft thinks the consumer market will tolerate, and the consumer market does tolerate it, then who holds the shame? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Jan 12 22:42:16 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Quit Message-ID: >Q Really quit Pine? >Y Expunge the 75 deleted messages from "INBOX"? >Y You sure? Possibly important threads exist. >Y! Are you aware that 73 of them are from the Thread: "Nuke Redmond"?? >YYYYYYYYY Last chance to read them all again before deletion: [Y/N]: > y Deleted all 75 messages and kept 238. >Pine finished. To recover the 73 deleted "Nuke Redmond" messages, enter the following comm {{{{|||~{{|~|~|~eee~|~|~||qqq|~{|{~{~{{{|| NO CARRIER John From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 22:48:16 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <016601c07d1c$44e99950$3f779a8d@ajp166> >> Then again I say this as W95 was a royal PITA the first time compared to >> VMS and other DEC OSs I was familiar with. Then again creating a BIOS >> for CP/M was pretty intimidating at one time too. >> >> Allison > >It all depends on the person. I can install things such as Linux, OpenBSD, >Solaris, OpenVMS, MacOS and RT-11 almost with my eyes closed, and the hardest >part is waiting for the software to move from CD to HD (yes, even with RT-11). >With any Windows variant I seem to have to dedicate a minimum of one day to >cursing and fighting the garbage! Well first time took three days. Now I can do it in about an hour. 28 client system that were horridly configured was the practice. By horrid things like only one 500mb partition on a 1gb disk and other offenses to the mind. All I had to do was learn the OS and install scripting. My favorite kind of fun is taking a wreck like a 486/33 with 8mb ram and 120mb of disk and making a printserver and still have 60mb unused. I can do NT4/server faster though as it wants fewer reboots. Once I learn Linux installs I can do that about as fast for a generic install with most packages. It's the little "you gotta know" things that make a difference. Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Jan 12 21:54:55 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) In-Reply-To: <001901c07d11$9030b0c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010113045051.PAFZ21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Yup, back then it shipped on guess how many disks? Thirteen 1.44mb floppies. Three years later, Windows 95 shiped on guess how many disks? Yup, thirteen 1.44 floppies and it did less. Back in those days, the main complaint was performance on lame hardware. It was excellent on a 486dx but much less than a 386dx and it was too slow to use (patiencewise -I had a friend who ran Warp Connect on his 386sx. Even I didn't understand THAT. My 486dx2/66 was snappy with 24mb ram. His crawled with the same amount. It didn't beat his disk up, it was just glacial on is 386sx. Basicly system requirements were low, but much higher if you wanted a snappy system. Three years later, 95 didn't perform very well on a 386sx either. As far as killing the OS, it never died. It still does the vast majority of the worlds banking. You don't hear much about it because it rarely breaks. It isn't unusual for a countries banking system to buy tens of thousands of seats in one fell swoop. Recently this happened in Germany and in Brazil when both countries chose OS/2 Warp to run thier nationwide financial systems. That is one heck of a compliment to a 'dead' operating system. Just do a websearch for any function under the sun and see how many hits you get for OS/2. It is really an eye-opener how well supported and strong the OS/2 community is. Thank goodness for me because I adopted it as my main OS in 1992. You can buy the latest greatest desktop version (a slightly scaled down version of Warp Server for E-Business) from BMT Micro via the web. It really is worth a look. It is a bootable CD - I havn't installed from floppies since 1993. When OS/2 got 'Warped' with version 3, a cd install was the only practical way. Till this day though you can still run off a set of 80 floppies and install that way but it is so much easier to just hang a cdrom off the poor cd-less machine...... Regards, Jeff In <001901c07d11$9030b0c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com>, on 01/12/01 at 10:54 PM, "Richard Erlacher" said: >My one and only encounter with OS/2 was in '94 or so, and when I found >that it took my system adminsitrator almost a whole day to install the >contents of the five or six pounds of diskettes, I decided it would be my >last. It took me about 45 minutes to restore the DOS/Win3.11. >I guess it doesn't take much to kill an OS. >Dick -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 12 22:51:27 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) Message-ID: <000001c07d1e$25dac8c0$07749a8d@ajp166> From: healyzh@aracnet.com > >Is there a point to this rambling? Yes, there is! Applications! >Specifically usable applications are what make or break a OS. If an OS >doesn't run the Apps a person wants, they're unlikely to use that OS. There is the key point. Also most people that like WP didnt' like the later versions MS like look and feel despite the features. Allison From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Jan 13 01:03:12 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! Re: Nuke this off-topic flamefest! In-Reply-To: References: <005601c07cf3$16099dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <200101130705.f0D75WX24789@grover.winsite.com> > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > <> > > It says all you ever did with your laptop was run a communications > program, and that is a very simple task for Windows to perform on a > sole basis. Open up 10 other applications concurrently and use them > actively, then see how Windows holds up. > > If this is what Microsoft thinks the consumer market will tolerate, > and the consumer market does tolerate it, then who holds the shame? > > Sellam Ismail Amen. A lot of the blame for Microsoft's dominance (aside from the illegal predatory tactics) lies in the fact that the buying public has just accepted substandard, buggy products for years, and continues to do so. I've seen quotes from Ballmer that said "We'd rather ship a buggy product on time, and fix it down the road, than miss a ship date." The kind of errors and bugs that ship in MS "final" products would bring scores of lawsuits and bankruptcies in any other industry, but the computer-buying public just says, "I know it's buggy and not really finished. I know it'll cause problems and probably isn't compatible with my other software. That's OK. It's from Microsoft, so I have to have it because it's the latest thing...you just go ahead and fix the flaws when you have time. Here's another boxful of cash. Oh, and while you're at it, let me know when the next beta is out, and I'll send you another boxful of cash for that, too." It's a great business model. If the automotive industry could get away with selling partially-finished, problematic cars for full retail price, and demand that you pay full price for a new one every two years, don't you think they'd do the same thing? That's the only thing Microsoft has "innovated". All their products are bought, stolen, reverse-engineered, "borrowed", or otherwise derived from someone else's work. The ability to sell crap, and sell it consistently, while gaining market share and making more profit than half of the world's countries put together, is true marketing genius. They've gotten everyone to say, "Yes, sir. May I have another?" Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 13 02:09:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! Re: Nuke this off-topic flamefest! References: Message-ID: <000d01c07d38$2bad6b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, I did run the Windows internet suite and the Winfax, and the Office 97 stuff, along with CorelDraw (before their acquisition of Ventura and WordPerfect) and some DOS stuff. Oh, yeah ... there was Autocad, and a couple of other goodies, but it's true, there were seldom more than three or four of them open, maybe five if one considers Calculator. It's true, though, that most of this stuff was vanilla-flavored Windows apps, which one would expect to behave pretty normally. Nevertheless, it did run without interruption (unless I took it somewhere) for well over a year. I certainly agree that it's not Microsoft that's to blame for what people buy. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:29 PM Subject: OT! Re: Nuke this off-topic flamefest! > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I don't know what that says about DELL. My Winbook ran for over a year > > without ever being shut down. Its main purpose was to serve as the comm > > station while my modem was on load to my mother. Unfortunately, I'm still > > waiting for the replacement battery, since I ruined the battery in the > > process. > > It says all you ever did with your laptop was run a communications > program, and that is a very simple task for Windows to perform on a sole > basis. Open up 10 other applications concurrently and use them actively, > then see how Windows holds up. > > If this is what Microsoft thinks the consumer market will tolerate, and > the consumer market does tolerate it, then who holds the shame? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 13 02:15:02 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) References: <20010113045051.PAFZ21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <001701c07d38$edf26420$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, THIS OS/2 was in three boxes of diskettes, full ones, and the only Win95 I ever saw on floppies was on 21 of them. I guess that judge Jackson needs an update, since he's convinced that Windows is the only real OS out there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) > Yup, back then it shipped on guess how many disks? Thirteen 1.44mb > floppies. Three years later, Windows 95 shiped on guess how many disks? > Yup, thirteen 1.44 floppies and it did less. > > Back in those days, the main complaint was performance on lame hardware. > It was excellent on a 486dx but much less than a 386dx and it was too slow > to use (patiencewise -I had a friend who ran Warp Connect on his 386sx. > Even I didn't understand THAT. My 486dx2/66 was snappy with 24mb ram. > His crawled with the same amount. It didn't beat his disk up, it was just > glacial on is 386sx. > > Basicly system requirements were low, but much higher if you wanted a > snappy system. Three years later, 95 didn't perform very well on a 386sx > either. > > As far as killing the OS, it never died. It still does the vast majority > of the worlds banking. You don't hear much about it because it rarely > breaks. It isn't unusual for a countries banking system to buy tens of > thousands of seats in one fell swoop. Recently this happened in Germany > and in Brazil when both countries chose OS/2 Warp to run thier nationwide > financial systems. That is one heck of a compliment to a 'dead' operating > system. > > Just do a websearch for any function under the sun and see how many hits > you get for OS/2. It is really an eye-opener how well supported and strong > the OS/2 community is. Thank goodness for me because I adopted it as my > main OS in 1992. > > You can buy the latest greatest desktop version (a slightly scaled down > version of Warp Server for E-Business) from BMT Micro via the web. It > really is worth a look. It is a bootable CD - I havn't installed from > floppies since 1993. When OS/2 got 'Warped' with version 3, a cd install > was the only practical way. Till this day though you can still run off a > set of 80 floppies and install that way but it is so much easier to just > hang a cdrom off the poor cd-less machine...... > > Regards, > > Jeff > > > In <001901c07d11$9030b0c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com>, on 01/12/01 > at 10:54 PM, "Richard Erlacher" said: > > >My one and only encounter with OS/2 was in '94 or so, and when I found > >that it took my system adminsitrator almost a whole day to install the > >contents of the five or six pounds of diskettes, I decided it would be my > >last. It took me about 45 minutes to restore the DOS/Win3.11. > > >I guess it doesn't take much to kill an OS. > > >Dick > > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 13 02:20:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT! Re: Nuke this off-topic flamefest! References: <005601c07cf3$16099dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <200101130705.f0D75WX24789@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <001f01c07d39$b8c1f260$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It's just the American way of doing business. Detroit's been doing it for 50 years. Get over it! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Braun" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 12:03 AM Subject: Re: OT! Re: Nuke this off-topic flamefest! > > On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > <> > > > > It says all you ever did with your laptop was run a communications > > program, and that is a very simple task for Windows to perform on a > > sole basis. Open up 10 other applications concurrently and use them > > actively, then see how Windows holds up. > > > > If this is what Microsoft thinks the consumer market will tolerate, > > and the consumer market does tolerate it, then who holds the shame? > > > > Sellam Ismail > > Amen. A lot of the blame for Microsoft's dominance (aside from the > illegal predatory tactics) lies in the fact that the buying public has > just accepted substandard, buggy products for years, and > continues to do so. I've seen quotes from Ballmer that said "We'd > rather ship a buggy product on time, and fix it down the road, than > miss a ship date." The kind of errors and bugs that ship in MS > "final" products would bring scores of lawsuits and bankruptcies in > any other industry, but the computer-buying public just says, "I > know it's buggy and not really finished. I know it'll cause problems > and probably isn't compatible with my other software. That's OK. > It's from Microsoft, so I have to have it because it's the latest > thing...you just go ahead and fix the flaws when you have time. > Here's another boxful of cash. Oh, and while you're at it, let me > know when the next beta is out, and I'll send you another boxful of > cash for that, too." > > It's a great business model. If the automotive industry could get > away with selling partially-finished, problematic cars for full retail > price, and demand that you pay full price for a new one every two > years, don't you think they'd do the same thing? > > That's the only thing Microsoft has "innovated". All their products > are bought, stolen, reverse-engineered, "borrowed", or otherwise > derived from someone else's work. The ability to sell crap, and sell > it consistently, while gaining market share and making more profit > than half of the world's countries put together, is true marketing > genius. They've gotten everyone to say, "Yes, sir. May I have > another?" > > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > > "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 13 01:41:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <00f901c07d0e$5e70d180$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >I take an aside to this. The current crop of BSD and Linux flavored unix >like >OSs seem to be as easy to install as W9x. With one caveat, the unix >camp is steeped in 30+ years of unix culture. It is this culture that When you have a LOT of unix experience they do seem about as easy to install, but I am a fairly normal, knowledgable person and it took me roughly 12 hours to get my first NetBSD system running on a Mac IIci as a limited function Nat/firewall. I still don't "understand" much of what I had to do, but the mechanics of doing it are much more familiar. Exiting vi the first time I edited /etc/resolv.rc only took about an hour. CLEARLY what I struggled with manually could have been scripted etc., but at what price? (both in $ and failing to learn how to exit vi). When I recommend NetBSD, part of the recommendation is before you get started, join a support list (and I give a URL). With windows the problem is the opposite, the damn thing wants to run EXACTLY the way it wants to with few if any user options and very much at your own risk. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 13 03:18:48 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration In-Reply-To: <3A5F9828.BEFAE666@rain.org> References: Message-ID: >I just got a cable modem installed yesterday and would like to put something >in place so I can access it from several computers. My preference is to use >what I have on hand rather than go out and just buy a router. I have a >SparcStation 2 with Solaris 7, of course some Pentium (and below) computers, >etc. available but I am clueless on what type of software could be used to I run NetBSD on a mac IIci, and other than a little time setting a few things in text files, it just runs and runs. My suggestion would be to use any 486 class hardware that you have handy that will easily support TWO network adapters. People tell me a decent 386 will even work, but with a 486/66 you have a LOT more flexibility with memory etc. To use an early mac, anything with a couple slots and a FPU, check this NetBSD site. http://users.erols.com/ewinkler/ For a PC; A nice canned commercial package, but still free for home use; www.gnatbox.com or look at NetBSD; http://www.netbsd.org/ or the Linus Router Project; From spc at conman.org Sat Jan 13 04:14:23 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 12, 2001 11:41:32 PM Message-ID: <200101131014.FAA10111@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Mike Ford once stated: > > >I take an aside to this. The current crop of BSD and Linux flavored unix > >like > >OSs seem to be as easy to install as W9x. With one caveat, the unix > >camp is steeped in 30+ years of unix culture. It is this culture that > > When you have a LOT of unix experience they do seem about as easy to > install, but I am a fairly normal, knowledgable person and it took me > roughly 12 hours to get my first NetBSD system running on a Mac IIci as a > limited function Nat/firewall. I still don't "understand" much of what I > had to do, but the mechanics of doing it are much more familiar. Exiting vi > the first time I edited /etc/resolv.rc only took about an hour. NetBSD wasn't one of the eaisest things I've installed (on an HP/Apollo 400 series---ended up having to recompile my Linux kernel and calculate the physical layout of the drives and partition them by hand) but it was a fun way to spend a day (looking back, at the time I was cursing up a storm). Then again, HP/Apollos aren't mainstream systems. But I had trouble installing RedHat on a laptop with only 4M RAM and 120M harddrive (I did it, but the method involved making a 120M disk image and transfering it to the laptop ... ) -spc (That one took me two days ... ) From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 12 23:37:53 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <20010112125653.C734936C9F@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <1213.413T2650T3976535optimus@canit.se> Wim skrev: >Can you expect to say to a housewife : This is a Linux cd. Install it on >this computer and I expect you to have looked at these Internet sites by >tomorrow morning? It would have to be some housewife!! Linux needs far to >much work still to make it fit for the masses. Whoever is touting any UNIX-a-like OS as a Windows replacement is a bloody fool. Such a system needs an able administrator, in which case it can be quite comfortable for the end user, but it doesn't belong on the desktop of my mother. This is not an attempt to defend Windows, I think it's horrid, and if the end- user was the be-all, end-all of OS development, they'd be running Macs. I prefer the sensible compromise of the Amiga, myself. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. JavaScript has been developed to show scrolling messages on your pages. It should have been named ScrollerScript, but as it came out more or less the same time when the hype on a programming language called Java (poor man's SmallTalk raped by C++ which is expected to solve all problems of the world, including traffic, pollution and AIDS) started, it's creators decided to use the term ``Java'' in it's name, too. -- README for the HTML preprocessor "hsc" From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 05:43:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration In-Reply-To: <3A5F9828.BEFAE666@rain.org> Message-ID: <1130.413T1900T7635453optimus@canit.se> Marvin skrev: >I just got a cable modem installed yesterday and would like to put something >in place so I can access it from several computers. My preference is to use >what I have on hand rather than go out and just buy a router. I have a >SparcStation 2 with Solaris 7, of course some Pentium (and below) computers, >etc. available but I am clueless on what type of software could be used to >set this up. I would also like to put up a web server that most likely would >only be accessable (for the time being) from inside. My knowledge in the >area of setting something like this up is pretty small. Any suggestions? There is a particular small-ish NetBSD distribution intended for firewall or gateway use. I seem not to have bookmarked it, but a litle look-around on the NetBSD site or Google should yield the correct results. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From btobler at magnet.ch Sat Jan 13 06:49:33 2001 From: btobler at magnet.ch (Beatrice Tobler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... Message-ID: Hi I found an old email from you on the web: http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-04/0324.html Hi guys, just wanted to say what I got at TCF. I managed to get there at 3:45 on Sunday (15 minutes before closing on the last day of the show.) Anyway here's what I got: 2 Seagate MFM Hard Drives *FREE* 1 Sysquest tape(?) drive *FREE* the tape drive is about the size of a CD-ROM, what is it? 1 Apple IIe Users Guide *FREE* (why? I dunno, it was in the trash) 1 CBM 8032 $5 (this things got some kind of memory board that plugs into the CPU socket and a parallel interface) 1 Funky Mouse *FREE* This last thing I need help with. It looks to be about 20+ years old but I could be wrong... It is bright red, almost perfectly round, has a steel ball as the roller, 3 black switches, and says "5271" and then "DEPRAZ - MOUSE" on the bottom. It has what looks likea standard serial cable. The guy said it was for a terminal right before he threw it out. Any ideas? More importantly.... do you think I could use it on my PeeCEE? 8) Les PS what'd everyone else get at TCF? ---------------------------------------------------------------- If you are still interested in the origin of the funky looking red mouse, I can tell you. I got one myself. So before I write down the whole history, give me an note whether you are still interested in it. Greetings from Basel, Switzerland, Beatrice. Beatrice Tobler || Konservatorin f?r Computer/Neue Medien | Museum f?r Kommunikation | Helvetiastr. 16 | CH-3000 Bern 6| Tel: 031 357 55 44 (Di-Fr)| b.tobler@mfk.ch | http://www.mfk.ch || Blauensteinerstrasse 8 | CH-4053 Basel | Tel: 061 274 10 36 | btobler@magnet.ch | http://www.unibas.ch/volkskunde/tobler.html || VolO - Volkskunde Online: http://www.unibas.ch/volkskunde/volo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2236 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010113/9e87379d/attachment.bin From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Jan 13 08:59:09 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: "Real OS" In-Reply-To: <00fe01c07d0e$6d355600$3f779a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Jan 12, 2001 09:59:17 pm" Message-ID: <200101131459.f0DEx9u07176@bg-tc-ppp1007.monmouth.com> > From: Sellam Ismail > > > >And for the most part that's what Windows delivers, albeit sometimes > very > >poorly. I can be playing Casino99, listening to Napster tunes, surfing > >the web, checking my e-mail, have a telnet session open, and have > Outlook > >Express open, all concurrently. But then when I close down Casino99 > while > >Napster is playing a tune, Napster crashes. Then it causes other shit > to > >go haywire sometimes, resulting in the need to reboot. This is on a > Dell > >Dimension 4100. A nice box. > Real OS's (TM) don't let applications corrupted memory that they don't own and they enforce memory protection and priviledge with EXTREME PREJUDICE. If Netscape pukes on FreeBSD the rest of the tcp/ip stack and the FTP I'm running continue. If XFree86 dumps -- sendmail still continues. I've seen Windows and NT loose all network connectivity after an app blows up. I guess it looses access to the DLL's with the IP stack code. I guess Unix had it right putting the network in the kernel. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Jan 13 09:11:22 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <20010113012752.KTNY21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at "Jan 12, 2001 08:16:32 pm" Message-ID: <200101131511.f0DFBMY07232@bg-tc-ppp1007.monmouth.com> > My OS/2 box routes internet traffic for seven other machines pulling a > total of 770kbps off my cable modem while running this mailer, eight or > more copies of netscape, playing MPEGS off of the internet and burning a > cd all at once. I routinely have uptimes measured in weeks not hours > though since this is also my personal computer in addition to being the > burner and router, I mess with it a lot. Swapping cdrom drives or cards > requires a reboot..... I love OS/2... It's the closest thing to VAX/VMS reliability in a Non-Unix OS that can run some PC apps. If IBM had only kept the funding and kept it compatible with Win32 -- but when I was there the customers demanded RedmondNT and Redmond95 and the boys at the top said the money was in Windows. They were running OS/2 2.11 internally when W95 came out. They rolled out Warp to the desktops with the Lotus Win3 Smart Suite. The OS/2 version of Smart Suite was so late and buggy at first I gave up on it. I'm wondering about Plex86 on OS/2. A VMWare-like setup to run the buggy crashing MS stuff. Bochs already works. I've now got SmartSuite96/Millenium and SmartSuite4 here. I've got WordPerfect 2000 Suite for Linux and W95. I've got StarOffice. Doesn't matter -- the employer's standardized on Office97 and is going to W2000Pro and Office2000 Pro this year. (I'm running Solaris or FreeBSD or Linux on the desktop and only booting into W98 when I have to run MS software.) I found out the master license price to my dept to order W2000 is $20 per machine -- very scary. OS/2 is great if you only had good apps available. --Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Jan 13 09:27:40 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Larry McVoy In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010112135819.00c82c30@pc> from John Foust at "Jan 12, 2001 02:02:09 pm" Message-ID: <200101131527.f0DFReA07445@bg-tc-ppp782.monmouth.com> > http://www.linux-mag.com/2000-04/opensource_evol_04.html > > - John He proposed OpenSource-ing SunOS at Sun before going to SGI. Sun didn't want to open up their mods to BSD and giving themselves competition to the overly slow buggy Solaris 2.x at the time. Basically he did what Bill Jolitz did for 386BSD. Yanked the under 30 AT&T intellectual property and copyright files and made a BSD varient with no encumberances. Sun was deeply in bed with AT&T at the time and this went nowhere and a number of Sun customers swore to never go to Solaris. (Solaris < 2.4 should be avoided due to bugs and bad performance. Solaris 2 still requires twice the memory and cpu of SunOS4.x and Solaris 1 (SunOS4.x + Openwindows). --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 13 11:08:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <200101131014.FAA10111@conman.org> from Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner at "Jan 13, 1 05:14:23 am" Message-ID: <200101131708.JAA13222@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > When you have a LOT of unix experience they do seem about as easy to > > install, but I am a fairly normal, knowledgable person and it took me > > roughly 12 hours to get my first NetBSD system running on a Mac IIci as a > > limited function Nat/firewall. I still don't "understand" much of what I > > had to do, but the mechanics of doing it are much more familiar. Exiting vi > > the first time I edited /etc/resolv.rc only took about an hour. > > NetBSD wasn't one of the eaisest things I've installed (on an HP/Apollo > 400 series---ended up having to recompile my Linux kernel and calculate the > physical layout of the drives and partition them by hand) but it was a fun > way to spend a day (looking back, at the time I was cursing up a storm). My NetBSD install experience started very badly with a whole host of alarming SCSI errors because the installer still doesn't support drives greater than 1GB (it will bomb out during the install process after a certain point). I ended up installing the files manually with cpin and tar xvpf after slogging through the voluminous but thorough NetBSD/mac68k FAQ. The result, of course, was an ultrareliable server that has been wonderful, but the getting there took some time. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- W. von Braun From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jan 13 11:31:10 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010113092901.01eabe80@208.226.86.10> This needs immediate action everyone, Compaq is in the process of removing ALL of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information from the Web. We've already lost the DEC Technical Journal articles that were on-line, and the Digital Timeline pages. This is a major blow to archivists and preservationists. EVERYONE needs to contect Compaq/DEC and ask that they restore those pages to the web. Please! --Chuck From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Jan 13 11:11:55 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <200101131511.f0DFBMY07232@bg-tc-ppp1007.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010113172827.XZPO21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <200101131511.f0DFBMY07232@bg-tc-ppp1007.monmouth.com>, on 01/13/01 at 12:11 PM, Bill Pechter said: It is true that the applications market for Warp isn't the largest or most complete, but it is good enough for me. I've never actually used a machine for a Purpose if you know what I mean. I network them, play with them, get X running on warp, make a Nat router, make it a web server, make it sense when the door opens and closes, turn on and off lights, interface it with my Atari ST. Basicly not much in the way of purpose. At least not in the sense of mission criticality others use thiers for. I'd be upset if my machine died but wouldn't lose anything important I couldn't redo. I use Star Office 5.1 for correspondence, PMView 2000 for image viewing and processing, BNR for getting binaries off the newsgroups, Injoy as an internet router. For windows there are a hundred different incarnations of programs for the same purpose. Most of them suck, but some are awesome like MS Office. OS/2 apps are exactly the opposite; for the most part they are awesome, but there are only five or ten to chose from at most. You can run almost any Win32/32s application in OS/2 via Win/OS2. You can now run SOME winnt/9x applications via an API converter project called ODIN (used to be called win32/OS2). One really neat thing is that OS/2 (Warp) is based on the MACH kernel which came from NEXT and provides the foundation for Apple's new OS/X. With a few tools, lots of Unix ports have been made available including Xwindows and lots of X applications. Of course I have X and Gimp and tons of other apps installed. They run perfectly and of course I have no purpose for them in any practical sense..... ;-) Probably my greatest wish for OS/2 would be better multimedia. Sure you can play Mpegs, and MP3 files, but I'd like .AVI, and Real Audio, and Shockwave. Toys yes, but I'd really like to see live video over the internet and may never be able. I can guage Windows against OS/2 and it compares very favorably, but like Xwindows, the GUI in OS/2 is the weak link. Since OS/2 is not multiuser, if the GUI barfs, you don't have the option of switching consoles and killing the darn thing. I can't count the times in the past several years that I've manages to lock the GUI and was forced to wait to reboot until a critical task (like a big download) was comlete, or to reboot and lose the task. The point is, a locked GUI doesn't stop any tasks but it'self, but it can make for an unpleasant experience nonetheless. I doubt we will see virtual consoles for OS/2 any time soon or ever. There is a diagnostic kernel that you can use that gives you ONE physical terminal which would help, but my desktop doesn't crash often enough to bother with an ANOTHER terminal on my desktop. I've allready got six machines on my desktop. I need another screen like a hole in my head (unless it is something KEUL) Wink. Regards, Jeff >I love OS/2... It's the closest thing to VAX/VMS reliability in a >Non-Unix OS that can run some PC apps. >If IBM had only kept the funding and kept it compatible with Win32 -- >but when I was there the customers demanded RedmondNT and Redmond95 and >the boys at the top said the money was in Windows. >They were running OS/2 2.11 internally when W95 came out. >They rolled out Warp to the desktops with the Lotus Win3 Smart Suite. >The OS/2 version of Smart Suite was so late and buggy at first I gave up >on it. >I'm wondering about Plex86 on OS/2. A VMWare-like setup to run the buggy >crashing MS stuff. >Bochs already works. >(I'm running Solaris or FreeBSD or Linux on the desktop and only booting >into W98 when I have to run MS software.) >I found out the master license price to my dept to order W2000 is $20 per >machine -- very scary. >OS/2 is great if you only had good apps available. >--Bill -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 11:33:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <001b01c07d87$00c7e090$07749a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >When you have a LOT of unix experience they do seem about as easy to >install, but I am a fairly normal, knowledgable person and it took me That is the culture and documentation thing. Plus, unix {and clones} is an OS not an application unto itself. So that means you can use it for anything BUT, anything you may want to do is not always documented in a direct stepwise fashon. >had to do, but the mechanics of doing it are much more familiar. Exiting vi >the first time I edited /etc/resolv.rc only took about an hour. Well, having had to live with TECO, Vteco, ED {cpm version} and command line editing inside VAX EDT {teco macros} a command line oriented visual editor like VI is far less foreign. Be glad you didn't have to use unix ED! >at what price? (both in $ and failing to learn how to exit vi). When I >recommend NetBSD, part of the recommendation is before you get started, >join a support list (and I give a URL). Do the words HELP! mean anything? It's a good idea. >With windows the problem is the opposite, the damn thing wants to run >EXACTLY the way it wants to with few if any user options and very much at >your own risk. Well yes and no. To make a point yes it's more limiting, it was designed for a different use (more like specific use). However if you learn how to manipulate the Registry, some of the .INI files and other burried bits it's possible to tune or even eliminate a lot. The first step is learning how to install it with the opions you want and not the MS or CPU vendor selected set. For example getting the W95 OSR2/USB OEM version to NOT install AOL, ATT and Compuserve or the correct set of tools. It does make a difference. If your using W98 (or 98second or ME) using 98lite to eliminate some of the junk in the install process can considerably lighten and speed the end result. But this is going far beyond the usual level that even most W9x power users go. In comparison, Unix users have gone to the level beyond the Windows power user. Most are doing system integration (making a NAT box lets say) and are even doing significant applications development. You can do that with W9x but you need the SDKs and corrosponding knowledge. In the end it's not an OS thing beyond having the fundemental hooks in it. There is nothing to say you couldn't have used: WinNT OS/2 BeOS Minix OpenDOS or whatever to do the same project. Each would impose different knowledge requirements and development loads. By the same token each one would have differing paybacks in cpu, memory and storage needed to accomplish the task to some given level of performance. Anywho, where W95 is actually weak in my mind is isolation between applications and the OS. The result is a misbehaving app or driver can kill the system. Security is poor as well. The serious offense and W98 (ME edition is best here) is TASK management and scheduling. In all it's a low security and weak multitasking OS. So if it doesn't perform with 10 tasks open then one should not be surprized. Based on the above comment I find this to be my opinion of multitasking perfomance of OSs I've used or seriously looked at for PC hardware. Poor Win3.11 little to no protection for the OS or tasks W9x Limited OS and task protection and some security. OS/2 V3 Close to NT maybe better on multitasking, security is ??? WinNT4 I use it, best of the MS lot I've worked with. Linux It's getting too loaded with MSisms Unix clones {FreeBSD, OpenBSD} good multitasking, excellent security BEST ..............unknown I'm Biased as I don't think any of them are at the OpenVMS level of reliability, performance or documentation. The latter, documentation both in it's completeness and conciseness alone seperates it from the PC OS listed though linux likely has by shear bulk come close. Allison From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Jan 13 11:37:59 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010113092901.01eabe80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Or at least give them to Encompass. Any idea who to contact? On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > This needs immediate action everyone, Compaq is in the process of removing > ALL of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information from the Web. We've > already lost the DEC Technical Journal articles that were on-line, and the > Digital Timeline pages. This is a major blow to archivists and > preservationists. EVERYONE needs to contect Compaq/DEC and ask that they > restore those pages to the web. Please! > > --Chuck > > -- From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 13 11:43:54 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: References: <00f901c07d0e$5e70d180$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010113114146.028084a0@pc> At 11:41 PM 1/12/01 -0800, you wrote: >When you have a LOT of unix experience they do seem about as easy to >install, but I am a fairly normal, knowledgable person and it took me >roughly 12 hours to get my first NetBSD system running on a Mac IIci as a limited function Nat/firewall. I'm no kernel genius, but I've been using Unix for nearly 20 years, and still I feel that picking up the latest Linux distro and, say, building an adequate firewall, will consume days learning the quirks of the latest tools, figuring out why something wasn't recognized, waiting for CDs to reinstall, etc. - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 13 11:51:12 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <200101131751.JAA09472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Since we had some talk about NetBSD, this is totally off-topic, not to mention totally bizarre. And it really does exist. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. -- Joe Walsh ------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 11:51:44 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:09 2005 Subject: OT: Router Configuration Message-ID: <003f01c07d8b$35712eb0$07749a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >My suggestion would be to use any 486 class hardware that you have handy >that will easily support TWO network adapters. People tell me a decent 386 >will even work, but with a 486/66 you have a LOT more flexibility with >memory etc. I've tried a 386DX/40 (with cache) and it was as good as a 486/33. The key thing is availability of memory and peripherals for it. Also there are the problems like some 386 boards getting more than 8-32mb of ram on the board is hard, expensive or impossible plus limited bios support for large (over 500mb) disks. >A nice canned commercial package, but still free for home use; www.gnatbox.com I have to check this out. ;) Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Jan 13 11:49:25 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <001b01c07d87$00c7e090$07749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010113182405.YYPU21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <001b01c07d87$00c7e090$07749a8d@ajp166>, on 01/13/01 at 12:49 PM, "ajp166" said: >Anywho, where W95 is actually weak in my mind is isolation between >applications and the OS. The result is a misbehaving app or driver can >kill the system. Security is poor as well. The serious offense and W98 >(ME edition is best here) is TASK management and >scheduling. In all it's a low security and weak multitasking OS. So if >it doesn't perform with 10 tasks open then one should not be surprized. I liken an Operating system to a bowl of hot soup. In Unix, OS/2, Linux, Solaris, etcetera, the applications are like toy boats floating on the soup. If you want to remove/replace a task, it is as easy as pie. Moving an application is usually as easy as CP'ing the files to another machine and running them. Installing an application does not change the flavor of the original distribution. In Windows - ANY version, the applications are like different flavors of bullion and spices. They dissolve in the operating system and become virtually indistiguishable from the solute. If you make the mistake of mixing two incompatible flavors, you can't get only one flavor out of the soup. Short of running the entire thing through a reverse osmosis filter which is going to remove even the Microsoft flavoring from the water leaving ... a blank disk, the fixes are composed of picking bits of spice out of the soup with your fingers - painful, tedious, and ultimately futile. Windows users frequently end up eating gross-tasting soup because of this. >Based on the above comment I find this to be my opinion of multitasking >perfomance of OSs I've used or seriously looked at for PC hardware. > Poor Win3.11 little to no protection for the OS or tasks > W9x Limited OS and task protection and some >security. > OS/2 V3 Close to NT maybe better on multitasking, >security is ??? OS/2 is significantly better than NT in the multitasking department and has no serious bugs I am aware of. OS/2 shippes (desktop versions) with essentially no SPECIAL security like NT does. It does have 'hooks' for this security and you can buy IBM or third-party software to latch into them and provide strong security. Warp Server versions are good examples. The latest version of OS/2 is version 4.5 - Warp 3 was superceeded in 1997 by Warp 4, and Warp 4 by the 'E-business' products since 1999/2000. You see a lot of Warp 3 because it still serves the intended function - like the United Press International news service. They have used Warp3 for years all over the world to move thier business. UPI, Bundesbank, and Banco Do Brasil are not trying to win a popularity contest with thier integrated solutions but by the quality of thier service. Warp does the trick and costs very little to nothing in maintainance. Why change a good thing? I don't know about UPI, but during Bundesbank and Banco Do Brasil evaluation periods, Microsoft was consulted and spent a lot in resources trying to make thier product (NT) work for these customers. The customers found two things: NT wouldn't scale to a national level, and Microsoft was not experienced enough in enterprise solutions. They bought from IBM because thier product did scale and IBM had the means to do it right the first time. You could sell some businesses like Banks and Hospitals a computer that looked like a giant, rotten, orange if it works as advertised. They will just stick it in a closet anyway. In this sense, the criticality of thier mission gives them a different set of priorities and makes them immune from the bigot bandwagon - unassailable by anything but the results they crave. They have no ego to bruise and none to foist on anyone else ie: "Nanynanyboobo, ours works great and you pay $10,000.00 every year to have some high school kid save you from yourselves". They just want a minimum of headaches. I love these kinds of customers. They hire me, tell me what they want to do, but not HOW TO DO IT. Being who I am, I'd put Warp Clients on the desktop as well as the Warp servers in the back office. Here again, impartiality (or apathy) makes them practical. They put Windows on the desktop as clients to thier Warp servers to lower training requirements. Since these machines aren't being strained much, they serve thier purpose, since the servers work fine, everybody is happy. > WinNT4 I use it, best of the MS lot I've worked with. Much better than any other MS os except maybe DOS for stability. It has warts as does anything else, but it's biggest wart is the SOUP thing which is death. > Linux It's getting too loaded with MSisms Linux is kinda messy and poorly documented. I like it, but that is just me. > Unix clones {FreeBSD, OpenBSD} good multitasking, >excellent security > BEST ..............unknown NetBSD is best I think. Then again, I don't spend my days trying to keep brilliant kids from trashing my systems so someone may have a more informed opinion. >I'm Biased as I don't think any of them are at the OpenVMS level of >reliability, performance or documentation. The latter, documentation >both in it's completeness and conciseness alone seperates it from the PC >OS listed though linux likely has by shear bulk come close. >Allison I just got into VMS recently so don't really have an opinion - YET :-0 Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Jan 13 12:26:25 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: NetBSD for Dreamcast (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101131751.JAA09472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010113182639.YZUS21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Now THATs FUN! I wonder if someone has hacked a keyboard onto one yet. Makes me want to get one. Talk about 'write once, run ANYWHERE'.... Regards, Jeff In <200101131751.JAA09472@stockholm.ptloma.edu>, on 01/13/01 at 01:26 PM, Cameron Kaiser said: >http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Jan 13 12:29:50 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <20010113172827.XZPO21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <20010113183027.ZBNN21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The below is unintentionally ambiguous. I mean to say that Windows does not compare favorably to OS/2 and OS/2 compares favorably to it's contemporaries. Regards, Jeff In <20010113172827.XZPO21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a>, on 01/13/01 at 01:29 PM, THETechnoid@home.com said: >I can guage Windows against OS/2 and it compares very favorably, but like >Xwindows, the GUI in OS/2 is the weak link. Since OS/2 is not multiuser, >if the GUI barfs, you don't have the option of switching consoles and -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 13 11:29:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Router Configuration In-Reply-To: <00ff01c07d0e$6dff0ea0$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, ajp166 wrote: > I've tried W95(custom install, minimal system) with AnalogX Proxy server > on the DSL with good results with a 486dx/66 and 16mb ram. If you need a good proxy server on as low end a system you can (win95 as a proxy server? oi!) try the Linux Router Project. Can run on a lowly 386 with one floppy. Everything fits on a single floppy. I don't know how the setup software is these days, but if you know what you're doing it's not hard to configure. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jimoaks at one.net Sat Jan 13 12:40:57 2001 From: jimoaks at one.net (Jim Oaks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: NetBSD for Dreamcast (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <20010113182639.YZUS21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: The Dreamcast does have a Keyboard available for it. Its about $20 Jim http://www.classicmag.net Preserving the Past for the Future -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of THETechnoid@home.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 1:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: NetBSD for Dreamcast (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) Now THATs FUN! I wonder if someone has hacked a keyboard onto one yet. Makes me want to get one. Talk about 'write once, run ANYWHERE'.... Regards, Jeff In <200101131751.JAA09472@stockholm.ptloma.edu>, on 01/13/01 at 01:26 PM, Cameron Kaiser said: >http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 13 11:35:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <00fd01c07d0e$6affd860$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >I buy nothing but Dell now, a good system that is as tightly integrated > >with Windows as any machine out there. I have one at home, and one at > >the office. Yet I have to reboot each on average once a week. > > FYI: my partners employer went all dell and they are far happier with > them compared to DEC, compaq and Duratel. They dont seem to > experience reboot problems save for when they run one rather badly > behaved ACCESS based application. The Access hack (must have been > written by script kiddies) even has a sloppy user interface. > > Don't blame the Cow for soggy cereal unless the Cow makes it. I was blaming Windows for making the Dell crash! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 13 11:37:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) In-Reply-To: <00fe01c07d0e$6d355600$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, ajp166 wrote: > Makes little difference what box it is one or mor eof the apps are broken > and killing others. Composted (yes cow dung is composted) as they are > would they run better under VMS or on a Sun, likely not just the core > dumps might be more interesting. What's worse? An app that crashes, or an OS that crashes because an app misbehaves? End o' story. > Then if you also looked even on a "Real OS, (tm)" youd find they still > buffer overflow, mem leak and leave garbage in memory or load broken > drivers. Just a few of the far to common offencesI've seen. But they generally don't die horifically if shit goes wrong. > Maybe, once you debug and recompile the apps. Foo! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 11:28:03 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <200101131014.FAA10111@conman.org> Message-ID: <1806.413T150T11083335optimus@canit.se> Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner skrev: >It was thus said that the Great Mike Ford once stated: >> >> >I take an aside to this. The current crop of BSD and Linux flavored unix >> >like >> >OSs seem to be as easy to install as W9x. With one caveat, the unix >> >camp is steeped in 30+ years of unix culture. It is this culture that >> >> When you have a LOT of unix experience they do seem about as easy to >> install, but I am a fairly normal, knowledgable person and it took me >> roughly 12 hours to get my first NetBSD system running on a Mac IIci as a >> limited function Nat/firewall. I still don't "understand" much of what I >> had to do, but the mechanics of doing it are much more familiar. Exiting vi >> the first time I edited /etc/resolv.rc only took about an hour. > NetBSD wasn't one of the eaisest things I've installed (on an HP/Apollo >400 series---ended up having to recompile my Linux kernel and calculate the >physical layout of the drives and partition them by hand) but it was a fun >way to spend a day (looking back, at the time I was cursing up a storm). I installed NetBSD 1.1 on an i386, and save for finding a compatible NIC, it went rather well. The most fluid installation must have been when I installed 1.4 on a pmax (DECstation), though. I could see why it would be quirky on a Mac, though. > Then again, HP/Apollos aren't mainstream systems. Definitely not. Sadly. > But I had trouble installing RedHat on a laptop with only 4M RAM and 120M >harddrive (I did it, but the method involved making a 120M disk image and >transfering it to the laptop ... ) The NetBSD READMe said that more than 4 MB was recommended, so installed two SIMMs so that I'd get 6 MB. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Amiga 4000/040 25MHz/34MB/20GB RetinaBLTZ3/VLab/FastlaneZ3/Ariadne/Toccata From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 12:07:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond In-Reply-To: <016601c07d1c$44e99950$3f779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <405.413T1400T11475125optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >All I >had to do was learn the OS and install scripting. My favorite kind of >fun >is taking a wreck like a 486/33 with 8mb ram and 120mb of disk and >making a printserver and still have 60mb unused. 60 megs? You waste sixty megs on a printserver? My, that's resourceful. Not. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 13 13:16:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <001101c07d95$52dd2e40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > > > Don't blame the Cow for soggy cereal unless the Cow makes it. > > I was blaming Windows for making the Dell crash! :) > Windows wasn't making the Dell crash. The Dell probably did precisely what it was told. This is a case where the cow caused the problem. Dick > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 13 12:27:44 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <200101131751.JAA09472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Since we had some talk about NetBSD, this is totally off-topic, not to >mention totally bizarre. And it really does exist. > >http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/ Yep, but does it support the new ethernet adapter for the Dreamcast? Don't forget you can add a keyboard and mouse to your Dreamcast (though I've yet to see a reason to). You can also get a VGA box for it. Sounds like all the makings of a decent enough UNIX box, you'd just have to keep your data on a network disk. Note, NetBSD doens't support much more than a serial console on the Dreamcast at the moment so it's really useless at this time. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 13 12:30:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <001101c07d95$52dd2e40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Don't blame the Cow for soggy cereal unless the Cow makes it. > > > > I was blaming Windows for making the Dell crash! :) > > Windows wasn't making the Dell crash. The Dell probably did precisely what > it was told. This is a case where the cow caused the problem. Dick, once again you forgot to turn your brain on when you responded. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mark_k at iname.com Sat Jan 13 13:46:51 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Apple external SCSI drives Message-ID: Hi, [Firstly, for some reason I never received classiccmp digest #482. Could someone be kind enough to email it to me, preferably compressed?] On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:11:35 -0500 > For Pr1me minis, hard drives have to be able to support a sector size > of 2080 bytes, instead of or in addition to the usual 512-byte sector > support. With Apple, their *first* hard drive (a non-SCSI unit) had > things called disk tags that required drives that support a sector > size of 576 bytes (from memory, probably wrong). > > I'm not defending the practice; while I assumed your remark was > rhetorical, not everyone in the audience may be as well-informed > as we are. Sector size is sometimes/usually controllable by the user. By issuing a format unit command with the appropriate parameters, some drives can be formatted to (almost) any sector size. The 86MB Fujitsu hard disk that I bought in 1991 came with a leaflet describing how to do this. The OEM manual for any given drive should say whether the sector size can be altered. This could be useful if you want to use a "normal" SCSI drive with some exotic computer, or vice versa. If you are not using a lame OS that has trouble with non-512-byte sectors, "free" disk space may be obtainable by reformatting with larger sector size such as 1K or 2K. Since there are fewer sector headers etc. with larger sector sizes, the disk capacity increases. On some drives, the manufacturer name that the drive reports can be changed by issuing the correct SCSI command(s). I have no idea what proportion of drives support this; it is probably not common (I know Fujitsu 230MB MO drives do). On a related subject, does anyone have OEM manuals for any old hard disks, optical drives or any other SCSI devices? These are usually impossible to obtain from the manufacturer, and can be very useful. In particular, I'd like to get hold of OEM/SCSI manuals for: Chinon CDS-435 CD-ROM Fujitsu M2511 MO drive Fujitsu M2612ESA hard disk Fujitsu M3191F1/F2 scanner Ricoh RH5500 50MB removable cartridge drive Various Ricoh MO drives Seagate ST1480N hard disk -- Mark From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 14:37:32 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Router Configuration Message-ID: <006701c07da2$4e11d7a0$07749a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >If you need a good proxy server on as low end a system you can (win95 as a >proxy server? oi!) try the Linux Router Project. Can run on a lowly 386 An aside if W95 is only doing proxy server it's fine, just done ask it to be printserver and a local workstation as well. First it was a box I had handy, not that it was a best choice. Runs much better on NT4/WS minimal running on a 486dx/66 in 20mb ram. The LRP is already running on a SIIG3000 (brick sized 386/16 W/5mb ram) and it's a good enough combo. It only has one eithernic due to internal slot limits, that one will later be a modem NAT/router from DSL down times. Like many others I've gone DSL and the DSL modem needs NAT, firewall, antivirus and proxy services in it so I have to look around too. My preference is FreeBSD or VMS running on a box with two EitherNICs so that my backbone is completely isolated from the DSL. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 14:44:23 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) Message-ID: <006801c07da2$4f21e810$07749a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >> Makes little difference what box it is one or mor eof the apps are broken >> and killing others. Composted (yes cow dung is composted) as they are >> would they run better under VMS or on a Sun, likely not just the core >> dumps might be more interesting. > >What's worse? An app that crashes, or an OS that crashes because an app >misbehaves? OS dies from bad app is clearly the worst case. It can hammer the filesystem and thats always messy. NT4 is clearly way better on that over W9x. The acid test for both (from work experience) is start editing a document with WORD, running Paradox-9 or Delphi and then pull the plug out of the wall. The W95 box generally does bad stuff while the NT4 box seems to shrug it off loosing only unsaved work. W9x is not robust, never said it was. >From testing OS/2 is in the NT4 response catagory to unexpected power fails The various unix clones seem to take it well but, I havent tested it as hard. Allison From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 13 14:52:54 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 13, 1 10:27:44 am" Message-ID: <200101132052.MAA13308@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Since we had some talk about NetBSD, this is totally off-topic, not to > >mention totally bizarre. And it really does exist. > > > >http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/dreamcast/ > > Yep, but does it support the new ethernet adapter for the Dreamcast? Don't > forget you can add a keyboard and mouse to your Dreamcast (though I've yet > to see a reason to). You can also get a VGA box for it. Sounds like all > the makings of a decent enough UNIX box, you'd just have to keep your data > on a network disk. > > Note, NetBSD doens't support much more than a serial console on the > Dreamcast at the moment so it's really useless at this time. Actually, with the SH3 in there I really have toyed with borrowing a friend's DC and burning the CD image just to see how fast it goes. Some clever wag on the NetBSD/dreamcast list suggested we should just tell everyone the CD has fifty new games on it! (You know, hack, canfield, trek ... ;-) I hadn't even thought of using NFS or likeminded ideas on it. Cool, that's definitely a thought. I didn't know the DC had an ethernet adaptor. This is sounding like a cooler and cooler idea all the time! :-) Besides, what's wrong with a serial console? I have a Wyse 30 here that needs good use ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The world is coming to an end. Log off now. -------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 14:52:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <007501c07da4$68e23e60$07749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >>is taking a wreck like a 486/33 with 8mb ram and 120mb of disk and >>making a printserver and still have 60mb unused. > >60 megs? You waste sixty megs on a printserver? My, that's resourceful. Not. Sure I could have dug up a smaller hard disk but that one was already excess. When you consider the 120mb IDE disk, 486box and all were picked up as trash for the dumper, yes! It's has no floppy, headless{no tube}, no mouse or keyboard either. Cost was time to install from a loose CDrom drive. It serves a HP color inkjet and a HP4L to 6 W95 users and doing that with anything else is either more complicated or didnt' buy me a thing. Runs 24/7 with only reboots for power loss (about 5-7 times a year). Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Jan 13 15:12:46 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) In-Reply-To: <006801c07da2$4f21e810$07749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010113211528.DRGC8967.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Warp deals with power loss well but not allways perfectly. Though in my years of experience with it I've never noticed a single fault caused by power loss, I have noticed that the autocheck will 'find' 'lost files' and place them in x:\found00x folders. I think they are hash files because the originals are all in thier correct places and the system runs perfectly. I just delete the folder(s) whenever I see one which is rare. This is on an HPFS formatted drive. A power failure can screw the filesystem just like windows if you run fat. I gave up on fat about the time I got OS/2.... Regards, Jeff In <006801c07da2$4f21e810$07749a8d@ajp166>, on 01/13/01 at 04:12 PM, "ajp166" said: >From: Sellam Ismail >OS dies from bad app is clearly the worst case. It can hammer the >filesystem >and thats always messy. NT4 is clearly way better on that over W9x. The >acid test for both (from work experience) is start editing a document >with >WORD, running Paradox-9 or Delphi and then pull the plug out of the wall. >The W95 box generally does bad stuff while the NT4 box seems to shrug it >off loosing only unsaved work. W9x is not robust, never said it was. >From testing OS/2 is in the NT4 response catagory to unexpected power >fails >The various unix clones seem to take it well but, I havent tested it as >hard. >Allison -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jtinker at coin.org Sat Jan 13 15:12:42 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <200101131708.JAA13222@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A60C4C9.43B5D1D1@coin.org> > -- Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- W. von Braun "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 15:19:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond Message-ID: <008401c07da8$9d098b40$07749a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >In Windows - ANY version, the applications are like different flavors of >bullion and spices. They dissolve in the operating system and become >virtually indistiguishable from the solute. If you make the mistake of >mixing two incompatible flavors, you can't get only one flavor out of the This is indeed a secondary thing I dislike about MS. Though it's not quite soup if the app your running is not MS. MS apps mingle with the OS and make mush though I've pulled them out completely with some work. The problem is more MS than the OS as things like IE, OE and Office do not uninstall completely. They leave bits about as reminders they were there. If your willing to hit the registry and files system they can be removed bit it's a PITA. Its the price you pay for ActiveX, COM, VBS and all the other MS hacks. >> OS/2 V3 Close to NT maybe better on multitasking, security is ??? > >OS/2 is significantly better than NT in the multitasking department and >has no serious bugs I am aware of. OS/2 shippes (desktop versions) with >essentially no SPECIAL security like NT does. It does have 'hooks' for >this security and you can buy IBM or third-party software to latch into >them and provide strong security. Warp Server versions are good examples. The lack of security in networked systems to me is a weakness. Even as a home user now that I have DSL I have to thinkk about security so not having it is not a flaw but a weakness. Then again it's also V3 and rather old. >I love these kinds of customers. They hire me, tell me what they want to >do, but not HOW TO DO IT. Being who I am, I'd put Warp Clients on the While I'm not told to use W95 or NT at work I ahve 40 users and 4 servers and jumping to FreeBSD is a nontrivial task if the server is running middleware like COLDfusion on Paradox databases. >impartiality (or apathy) makes them practical. They put Windows on the >desktop as clients to thier Warp servers to lower training requirements. >Since these machines aren't being strained much, they serve thier purpose, >since the servers work fine, everybody is happy. Exactly. In my case the servers are NT4 and NT3.51 and down time is nearly unheard of. They are lightly loaded so it's fine. >> WinNT4 I use it, best of the MS lot I've worked with. > >Much better than any other MS os except maybe DOS for stability. It has >warts as does anything else, but it's biggest wart is the SOUP thing which >is death. Its a problem but if you understand it it doesnt have to be. For example I test a lot of software that may be used. Rather than worry the uninstall process I image the disk (10gigs is under $100!!!), do my testing and go to the image to restore. The Unix approach is like VMS and I like it better but using an image accomplishes the same end as effectively. Copying apps from one system to another under Winders is painful but it's COPYRIGHTED and not supposed to be so that's not an issue at work. >> Linux It's getting too loaded with MSisms > >Linux is kinda messy and poorly documented. I like it, but that is just >me. Yes but if you were building a work system that makes for a lot of training and documentation as part of the work done. As an engineer I've learned if it's not documented it cant be reproduced and didn't exist. >NetBSD is best I think. Then again, I don't spend my days trying to keep >brilliant kids from trashing my systems so someone may have a more >informed opinion. FreeBSD do do security regression testing so I find them the most secure or at least I can identify the holes or other flaws. >I just got into VMS recently so don't really have an opinion - YET :-0 Its an interesting OS. If your unix inculturated or used to say IBMisms (non PC) then it may bug you. It is robust, uses the hardware well and is reasonable enough. I like the grey wall (docs, lots of DOCS). Part of it's robustness and all come from being married to a specific processor (VAX) and 20+ years of maturity. Then again if MS didn't morph the OS every 5 years to something vastly different with a ton of legacy addons it could be better. Instead we have Win3.1, W9x, WNT3/4,win2000 codebases and each trying to eliminate the apps for the previous. Oh, to me the OS is like razors. Give the handle away and sell the blades. Problem is people keep changing the handle to keep other guys from making blades for it. The latter is the Microsoft way. Allison From jtinker at coin.org Sat Jan 13 15:48:26 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) References: <006801c07da2$4f21e810$07749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A60CD2A.F4FCF29C@coin.org> I would think that a properly layered system would look after its own integrity. To say that an app took down a system is by definition an indictment of the system, in my, perhaps idealistic, opinion. Why this happens otherwise, is the topic of all other explaination of system failure. Putting it in such simple terms accomplishes the broad stokes of the first analysis. I've always wanted to hear a os programmer tell me whether allowing multiple preemption is a fundamental flaw in certain operating systems. I'm thinking that multiple preemption might be a contradiction in terms. Intuitively I would expect the operating system itself to have the ultimate preemption, expressed as its servicing of hardware interrupts. I would expect that it would only be able to delegate its authority to be preemptive to *any* application if *every* other application running agrees to the proposition. But I do not have experience with that level of the operation of the various operating systems. In my own applications programming I am quite conscious of sometimes rather complex notions of "when". At the processor level, I am aware of the clock's relationship to read and write operations on RAM, and to higher-order symbols of phase completion of higher-order processes. I would expect the heart of an operating system to deal with similar indications of its own state(s) of integrity. I'm curious what people think about this. Thanks, -- John Tinker From peter at joules.org Sat Jan 13 16:40:10 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01011322414800.01927@pluto.joules.org> On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, you wrote: > Or at least give them to Encompass. Any idea who to contact? > I have just used their feedback secion to point out to their webmaster that the content is still useful to some of us. -- Regards Pete From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 13 12:02:48 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010113130248.31a73be2@mailhost.intellistar.net> http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/computing/01/12/hewlett.obit.ap/index.html From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 13 16:50:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Richmond References: <405.413T1400T11475125optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000f01c07db3$4ab88ac0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It's really not so wasteful providing hard disk space for print spooling, since many network printers have upwards of 40 MB of memory on board, e.g. my Okidata OL-1200. With lots of print jobs, it can schedule reloads/changes of the cartridges, etc. What's more, lots of single pages require more than 1 MB of description, and that doesn't even address bitmaps. Besides, if a kid needs 512 MB of RAM just to play his video games, why shouldn't a print server have a couple of hundred megs of hard disk space, otherwise too small to be of consequence? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "ajp166" Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 11:07 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond > ajp166 skrev: > > >All I > >had to do was learn the OS and install scripting. My favorite kind of > >fun > >is taking a wreck like a 486/33 with 8mb ram and 120mb of disk and > >making a printserver and still have 60mb unused. > > 60 megs? You waste sixty megs on a printserver? My, that's resourceful. Not. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish > prison." > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 13 16:52:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <001901c07db3$7c0e3de0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, that's what I get for agreeing, for once, with what you said, even if it wasn't what you meant. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Don't blame the Cow for soggy cereal unless the Cow makes it. > > > > > > I was blaming Windows for making the Dell crash! :) > > > > Windows wasn't making the Dell crash. The Dell probably did precisely what > > it was told. This is a case where the cow caused the problem. > > Dick, once again you forgot to turn your brain on when you responded. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Jan 13 16:15:45 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <3A60CD2A.F4FCF29C@coin.org> Message-ID: <20010113225541.FEMO8967.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Reading your message brought the phrase "cooperative preemption" to mind. I think I coined it....? Maybe that makes sense and maybe it doesn't. If an application is hung, there would have to be some mechanism to prevent it from hanging the whole system. Windows 9x is a good example of this kind of hybrid except I'm pretty sure it does one or the other mode but not both simultaneously. When you run a win3x application under 9x, the entire multitasking scheme reverts to cooperative which not a nice thing to do even to windos. Also, all win3x apps share the same space, one crashes, all can crash because of it. As pertains to running windows programs, OS/2 does 'cooperative preemption' in a way. If you want to run a win3x application, you can either run it entirely in it's own, protected memory space (seamless), or in a shared, protected space (shared between several win3x apps together in the same space). In the first mode, if a seamless 3x app crashes, it affects only it's own space. If an app running in shared space crashes, it can crash all it's buddies sharing it's memory. OS/2 does not run Windows apps, it runs Windows. You can run as many as 240 copies of Windows 3.11 with as many apps each as each can support. You can substitute one or more of those 240 copies with seamless (single app) sessions which can reduce the total number of apps which can be run, but with 240 available Windoses to run, it is trivial to mention that. Who on earth is going to run eight gazillion Windows apps? One or ten, but not tens of thousands. Within a Win/OS2 session running multiple programs, cooperative multitasking is used as that is what Win311 uses and win311 is what is running. OS/2 treats each win311 session as a single program and multitasks them preemptively. Because of this, each win311 session is able to communicate with other win311 sessions which may be running (clipboard etcetera) as well as with OS/2 and DOS programs 'outside' the 'bubble'. Using this method, OS/2 avoided the Kluge of windows9x and is BY FAR more compatible with DOS and Win3x apps than is Windows 9x or NT for that matter. A dos example: Note: OS/2 2.11 is OLD, classicmp old. OS/2 2.11 without networking functions installed. I open a DOS window, load LSL, NE2000, IPXODI and NetX, run Quake in this dos window and play over the net'. Windows 9x wouldn't even take Quake in a window, much less a nic driver entirely encapsulated in a protected memory area. OS/2, since the NIC's interrupt and base address were not used by it, it allows direct hardware access. If an OS/2 driver were loaded for that NIC, it would not provide access via virtualization, omitting the need to load the NE2000 driver, IPXODI, etcetera. Because the DOSbox support is so strong, not only can you run dos in a window, but you can run up to 240 copies of DIFFERENT 16bit operating systems. I've had a Win95 dosbox running next to a 95b dosbox next to a 98a dosbox next to a 98b dosbox next to a Xenix box, next to a win311 box, next to a ... you get the picture. For example, I've got fat32.ifs for OS/2 loaded now, but at one time I didn't and needed to read a fat32 disk on my system under warp. I just loaded up a copy of 98's dos and of course had access to the fat32 filesystem even though warp does not by default understand fat32 at all. With the included filesystem filter, that copy of 98 dos could 'bridge' the two giving me convenient access to copy the files I needed. No muss, no fuss. If you do this often, you can chose not to 'boot' the dosbox from floppy, but create a file containing an Image of that floppy on your hard disk. Just a file. Associate it with an icon and wham! instant Dos/98/xenix/minix/whatever session. It does not work with 32bit operating systems like Linux. TomsRTBT (Linux) will boot to a point, but once it goes into protected-mode it errors because it was ALLREADY running in protected mode and didn't know it until it tried to switch. I don't think there is another operating system out there that is NEARLY so flexible in supporting the multitasking of instances of other operating systems. In addition, each individual session can be customized by altering any of 75 provided settings for it such as priority, hardware access, XMS and EMS and DPMI memory sizes, video refresh, and on and on and on. Adjusting a setting in one dosbox affects only that box. Win9x's customization is primitive by comparison and could never approach it because the 9x architecture precludes doing this. Architecturaly speaking, allowing direct access to hardware which has not been virtualized (unutilized) by loading a driver could allow problems, but I don't know how a virus or trojan could take advantage of that since it couldn't possibly know you had a given card in your system or that you chose not to load a driver for it. NT won't allow direct hardware access at all which is architecturally speaking, safer, but the consequences are lost compatability with legacy applications and much reduced flexiblility. I'm not sure which approach is 'superior', but I prefer OS/2's approach. I mean, you can run Xenix in a window by default! Whew! Regards, Jeff In <3A60CD2A.F4FCF29C@coin.org>, on 01/13/01 at 05:15 PM, John Tinker said: >ultimate preemption, expressed as its servicing of hardware interrupts. I >would expect that it would only be able to delegate its authority to be >preemptive to *any* application if *every* other application running >agrees to the proposition. But I do not have experience with that level >of the operation of the various operating systems. In my own applications -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 16:12:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... In-Reply-To: from "Beatrice Tobler" at Jan 13, 1 01:49:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010113/133647bf/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 16:58:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: OT! RE: Nuke Richmond (Long) Message-ID: <009d01c07db5$39936f10$07749a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >This is on an HPFS formatted drive. A power failure can screw the >filesystem just like windows if you run fat. I gave up on fat about the >time I got OS/2.... Yes, FAT bad, anything else better. It's relevent too as FAT filesystem is only 18-19 years old and represents the greatest flaw of DOS, WIN3.1 and WIN9x. While off topic, it's interesting and OS designand evolution is something the list members might delve deeper into. Allison From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 14:00:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: OS/2 In-Reply-To: <20010113172827.XZPO21955.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <3082.413T600T12603769optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >In <200101131511.f0DFBMY07232@bg-tc-ppp1007.monmouth.com>, on 01/13/01 > at 12:11 PM, Bill Pechter said: >It is true that the applications market for Warp isn't the largest or most >complete, but it is good enough for me. I've never actually used a >machine for a Purpose if you know what I mean. I network them, play with >them, get X running on warp, make a Nat router, make it a web server, make >it sense when the door opens and closes, turn on and off lights, interface >it with my Atari ST. Oh, that sounds exactly like what I use my computers for. Besides running a web browser (going to reference pages for old hardware and obscure chip music formats) and reading mail and news (participating in mailing lists about quirky old hardware =), I just tend to stack the machines up and connect wires between them. I couldn't care less whether none of them has got a decent word processor. >I use Star Office 5.1 for correspondence, PMView 2000 for image viewing >and processing, BNR for getting binaries off the newsgroups, Injoy as an >internet router. For windows there are a hundred different incarnations >of programs for the same purpose. Most of them suck, but some are awesome >like MS Office. OS/2 apps are exactly the opposite; for the most part >they are awesome, but there are only five or ten to chose from at most. Veru true. >You can run almost any Win32/32s application in OS/2 via Win/OS2. You can >now run SOME winnt/9x applications via an API converter project called >ODIN (used to be called win32/OS2). I think this is a downfall of OS/2 and other x86 OSes. It's just too easy to give in to the temptation and run Windows, one way or another. I think it has stifled the development of alternative OSes just as much as the ubiquitous hardware has aided them. >One really neat thing is that OS/2 (Warp) is based on the MACH kernel >which came from NEXT and provides the foundation for Apple's new OS/X. >With a few tools, lots of Unix ports have been made available including >Xwindows and lots of X applications. Of course I have X and Gimp and tons >of other apps installed. They run perfectly and of course I have no >purpose for them in any practical sense..... ;-) Is there no end to this industry incest? It seems that every OS nowadays is either a clone or descendant of UNIX or DOS, or a mix thereof. What's happened to innovation? >There is a diagnostic kernel that you can use that gives you ONE physical >terminal which would help, but my desktop doesn't crash often enough to >bother with an ANOTHER terminal on my desktop. I've allready got six >machines on my desktop. I need another screen like a hole in my head >(unless it is something KEUL) Wink. If you've got six machines on your desktop, why not use one of those as terminal? Surely there must be a serial port on some of them. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Remember: - On the Amiga, you can make a way. - On Linux, there is a way, you just don't know it. - On Windows, there is no way and you know it. Aaron Digulla From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 17:48:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:10 2005 Subject: Eizo and NCR Message-ID: <702.414T350T484239optimus@canit.se> I made to observations today. One was a flat, long slab from NCR, with what seemed like 2 ISA slots in the back. On the bottom, it said on a label: Class 3390 Model 1204 I suppose this was employed in a cash register? Anyone familiar with this machine? I think it measured somewhere around 25?35?5 cm (W?D?H). Later that afternoon, I found an Eizo monitor, model 9052S-T. Since I recently got a very useful 9060S multisync, I thought this could be another good deal. I can't find any information about it, though. How low would it sync? Also, my 9060S suffers from noticable bleeding/ghosting around contrasting edges. Any cure? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. When all else fails, read the instructions. From rdd at smart.net Sat Jan 13 18:23:35 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010113130248.31a73be2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 Apparently seeing his company deteriorate led to his death. Hewlett Packard once produced equipment of very high quality, but, alas, it's product quality has greatly deteriorated and HP appears to consist mostly of marketing smoke and mirrors, only remaining in business because of the once excellent products that are associated with the company name. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 13 18:42:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jan 13, 1 07:23:35 pm" Message-ID: <200101140042.QAA13398@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > > Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 > > Apparently seeing his company deteriorate led to his death. Hewlett > Packard once produced equipment of very high quality, but, alas, it's > product quality has greatly deteriorated and HP appears to consist > mostly of marketing smoke and mirrors, only remaining in business > because of the once excellent products that are associated with the > company name. Well, their home computers are crap, but I love their server line. We just got a new dual-processor PA-RISC 2.0 L-class and it flies. Besides, all of the stuff Bill Hewlett was famous for, like electronic testing equipment and so on, got spun into Agilent, didn't it? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Anything that can be put into a nutshell belongs there. -- F. G. Brauer ---- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 13 18:41:31 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Nuke Helsinki In-Reply-To: <200101131014.FAA10111@conman.org> References: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 12, 2001 11:41:32 PM Message-ID: > NetBSD wasn't one of the eaisest things I've installed (on an HP/Apollo >400 series---ended up having to recompile my Linux kernel and calculate the >physical layout of the drives and partition them by hand) but it was a fun >way to spend a day (looking back, at the time I was cursing up a storm). > > Then again, HP/Apollos aren't mainstream systems. I have 4 Apollo's, but I suspect I will run HP unix on them. Sheesh, spring cleaning could get ugly this year, too many I have its that I don't play with. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 13 18:50:23 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: Re: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 (R. D. Davis) References: <3.0.1.16.20010113130248.31a73be2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <14944.63439.831688.169270@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 13, R. D. Davis wrote: > Apparently seeing his company deteriorate led to his death. Hewlett > Packard once produced equipment of very high quality, but, alas, it's > product quality has greatly deteriorated and HP appears to consist > mostly of marketing smoke and mirrors, only remaining in business > because of the once excellent products that are associated with the > company name. Granted there's more plastic in them than there used to be, but HP still makes the best test equipment that money can buy, as far as I'm concerned. There's no smoke or mirrors in their test equipment lineup. -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 13 18:29:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101132052.MAA13308@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 13, 1 10:27:44 am" Message-ID: >I hadn't even thought of using NFS or likeminded ideas on it. Cool, that's >definitely a thought. I didn't know the DC had an ethernet adaptor. This >is sounding like a cooler and cooler idea all the time! :-) They *just* released the "Broadband" adapter in the US, and currently you can only get it direct from Sega. Retailers are supposed to be able to start selling it in March. >Besides, what's wrong with a serial console? I have a Wyse 30 here that >needs good use ;-) Well.... When you've got VGA, Keyboard, and Mouse, it just screams to run X-Windows. Of course I'll admit that most of us probably don't have any of those for their Dreamcast (I know I don't). Now how long before someone ports UNIX to the PS2? Anyone know where to find Hardware info on that sucker? I finally got to see one today and it has a rather interesting looking expansion bay. ISTR hearing something about a Hard Disk for it. Plus it has two USB, and I think one Firewire port. After seeing one I'm more curious about the hardware than I had been. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From r.stek at snet.net Sat Jan 13 19:28:47 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Off-topic (i.e., not "Nuke Redmond" or OS debate): 3270 ISA boards available Message-ID: Sorry to drift from the MS-bashing going on , but if anyone is interested in a set of 5 8-bit boards (3 full length, jumpered together) pulled from a 5150 based PC which was used for 3270 emulation, please let me know. Will trade for Altair 8800 or for cost of shipping boards (your choice). Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 13 18:36:26 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <20010113225541.FEMO8967.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <3A60CD2A.F4FCF29C@coin.org> Message-ID: >Note: OS/2 2.11 is OLD, classicmp old. The rule for CLASSICCMP is 10 years, so it's still got a while to go. Even V2.0 has over a year to go. I'm not even sure if V1.3 is on-topic yet. I got my copy of V1.3 in about October 1991. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 13 19:45:01 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) Message-ID: <00c401c07dcc$51a4a940$07749a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >When you run a win3x application under 9x, the entire multitasking scheme >reverts to cooperative which not a nice thing to do even to windos. Also, >all win3x apps share the same space, one crashes, all can crash because of >it. Actually I run Paradox/DOSV4.5 under win95 and if you set things up right it can run protected dos space and the cooperative multitasking is only within that virtual dos window. It's a bigger probem that it tried to talk to the printer directly and Windows blocks on that if the setup is not exactly right. >As pertains to running windows programs, OS/2 does 'cooperative >preemption' in a way. If you want to run a win3x application, you can >either run it entirely in it's own, protected memory space (seamless), or >in a shared, protected space (shared between several win3x apps together >in the same space). In the first mode, if a seamless 3x app crashes, it >affects only it's own space. If an app running in shared space crashes, >it can crash all it's buddies sharing it's memory. NT4 also has this and it works well. BUT, you have to watch as some dos programs may try to share a file and you can get file locking problems. >OS/2 does not run Windows apps, it runs Windows. You can run as many as >240 copies of Windows 3.11 with as many apps each as each can support. Keep the education going. >I don't think there is another operating system out there that is NEARLY >so flexible in supporting the multitasking of instances of other operating >systems. In addition, each individual session can be customized by >altering any of 75 provided settings for it such as priority, hardware >access, XMS and EMS and DPMI memory sizes, video refresh, and on and on >and on. Adjusting a setting in one dosbox affects only that box. Win9x's Its clear that NTs dos support is based on OS/2s. Just for curiousity I've got a OS/2 Warp V3 kit including the bonus pack. What would it take to get networking going (TCP/IP prefered)? Also what later versions can be purchased and approximate cost? Allison From ecloud at bigfoot.com Sat Jan 13 19:54:54 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: <14944.63439.831688.169270@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:50:23PM -0500 References: <3.0.1.16.20010113130248.31a73be2@mailhost.intellistar.net> <14944.63439.831688.169270@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010113185454.F14057@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:50:23PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > Granted there's more plastic in them than there used to be, but HP > still makes the best test equipment that money can buy, as far as I'm Err, you mean Agilent does, right? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 19:52:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <512.414T2300T1725429optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >Now how long before someone ports UNIX to the PS2? Anyone know where to >find Hardware info on that sucker? I finally got to see one today and it >has a rather interesting looking expansion bay. ISTR hearing something >about a Hard Disk for it. Plus it has two USB, and I think one Firewire >port. After seeing one I'm more curious about the hardware than I had been. The PS/2 already runs both Linux and NetBSD. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Age is a high price to pay for maturity. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 13 18:52:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010113092901.01eabe80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >This needs immediate action everyone, Compaq is in the process of removing >ALL of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information from the Web. We've >already lost the DEC Technical Journal articles that were on-line, and the >Digital Timeline pages. This is a major blow to archivists and >preservationists. EVERYONE needs to contect Compaq/DEC and ask that they >restore those pages to the web. Please! > >--Chuck Give some email addresses or URL to complain at and we can whine in chorus. In the mean time somebody with bandwidth etc should grab all they can. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 13 20:17:17 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <512.414T2300T1725429optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 14, 1 02:52:46 am" Message-ID: <200101140217.SAA09538@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Now how long before someone ports UNIX to the PS2? Anyone know where to > >find Hardware info on that sucker? I finally got to see one today and it > >has a rather interesting looking expansion bay. ISTR hearing something > >about a Hard Disk for it. Plus it has two USB, and I think one Firewire > >port. After seeing one I'm more curious about the hardware than I had been. > > The PS/2 already runs both Linux and NetBSD. Are you sure? www.netbsd.org/Ports/ still lists it as a "Suggested" Port, not even a non-integrated one. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 20:54:40 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101140217.SAA09538@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> >Now how long before someone ports UNIX to the PS2? Anyone know where to >> >find Hardware info on that sucker? I finally got to see one today and it >> >has a rather interesting looking expansion bay. ISTR hearing something >> >about a Hard Disk for it. Plus it has two USB, and I think one Firewire >> >port. After seeing one I'm more curious about the hardware than I had >> >been. >> >> The PS/2 already runs both Linux and NetBSD. >Are you sure? www.netbsd.org/Ports/ still lists it as a "Suggested" Port, not >even a non-integrated one. While it has only been recently integrated, and support is minimal, the MCA bus is now official in the i386 port. Linux has been quite happily embracing the Personal System/2 for quite a while now. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Jan 13 21:14:04 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 14, 2001 03:54:40 AM Message-ID: <200101140314.UAA07281@calico.litterbox.com> > > Cameron Kaiser skrev: > > >> >Now how long before someone ports UNIX to the PS2? Anyone know where to > >> >find Hardware info on that sucker? I finally got to see one today and it > >> >has a rather interesting looking expansion bay. ISTR hearing something > >> >about a Hard Disk for it. Plus it has two USB, and I think one Firewire > >> >port. After seeing one I'm more curious about the hardware than I had > >> >been. > >> > >> The PS/2 already runs both Linux and NetBSD. > > >Are you sure? www.netbsd.org/Ports/ still lists it as a "Suggested" Port, not > >even a non-integrated one. > > While it has only been recently integrated, and support is minimal, the MCA > bus is now official in the i386 port. Linux has been quite happily embracing > the Personal System/2 for quite a while now. Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 13 21:32:41 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101140314.UAA07281@calico.litterbox.com> References: <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 14, 2001 03:54:40 AM Message-ID: >Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the >Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jan 13 22:21:32 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) References: <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 14, 2001 03:54:40 AM Message-ID: <3A61294C.5F1F1F98@mainecoon.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the > >Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. > > Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer > platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. Ah, well if we're talking about the PS2, I can say with some authority that at least LInux ran on it before the TX5900 core ever hit fab. It was part of the verification suite we ran on the behavioral and gate level simulators as well as on the god-awful Quickturn... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Jan 13 22:27:53 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: <20010113185454.F14057@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> References: <14944.63439.831688.169270@phaduka.neurotica.com>; from mcguire@neurotica.com on Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:50:23PM -0500 Message-ID: <200101140430.f0E4U6A02342@grover.winsite.com> > On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:50:23PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Granted there's more plastic in them than there used to be, but HP > > still makes the best test equipment that money can buy, as far as > > I'm > > Err, you mean Agilent does, right? > > -- > _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ****ATTENTION***** Yep. Agilent makes that great test equipment now. No way would we want to keep using the long-respected, world-reknowned, instantly-recognizable brand name of "Hewlett-Packard" anymore, would we? I mean, for cryin' out loud, them guys are dead! So, you can use your Agilent test equipment while you call Accenture on your Lucent phone over phone lines owned by Verizon. Of course, if you're in the field using your fabulous Agilent test set, you can call Accenture on your Cingular Wireless phone. That is, if you can even figure out how the heck to spell it, much less pronounce it. Same thing for Verizon wireless. How the hell are you s'posed to find the company if you can't pronounce it or even spell it? Marketing weenies. When did technology get overthrown by marketing weenies? That's probably what killed him.... Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 13 22:33:35 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <670.414T1750T3335511optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the >>Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. >Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer >platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. Shhh, don't say that in public! The MCA Mafia might hear you! http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's self- acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak played HYDLIDE 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE series!!! K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jan 13 23:11:02 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) References: <006801c07da2$4f21e810$07749a8d@ajp166> <3A60CD2A.F4FCF29C@coin.org> Message-ID: <3A6134E6.6F1A2F21@mainecoon.com> John Tinker wrote: > I would think that a properly layered system would look after its own > integrity. To say that an app took down a system is by definition an > indictment of the system, in my, perhaps idealistic, opinion. Generally, but not always. I certainly agree with the assertion when applied to _most_ things that people think of when using the term "operating system", but there are certainly exceptions for some classes of real-time or embedded systems, where the "applications" are really tasks and protection hardware may be unemployed or simply lacking. [snip] > I've always wanted to hear a os programmer tell me whether allowing multiple > preemption is a fundamental flaw in certain operating systems. Again, in _most_ things that fit into the OS bucket the preemption model is both defined by and enforced by the operating system itself. At best a process or task within a process can elect to give up the CPU by forcing a reschedule. Again, it's real-time and some embedded systems where one generally finds the notion of a task either seizing the processor or a task relinquishing the processor to a specified task. A common place where this occurs is in telephone systems, and in such cases the distinction between "application" and "system" is blurry at best. > I'm thinking > that multiple preemption might be a contradiction in terms. Intuitively I > would expect the operating system itself to have the ultimate preemption, > expressed as its servicing of hardware interrupts. Since _most_ operating systems don't allow code at the application level to manpiulate honest-to-god interrupts (but may do so in a virtual machine context) what you describe is generally the case. > I would expect that it > would only be able to delegate its authority to be preemptive to *any* > application if *every* other application running agrees to the proposition. The notion of the OS delegating scheduling authority is, in most contexts, bizarre. It usually suggests that the OS isn't an OS but rather an overgrown disk monitor. Oh wait, this thread _was_ talking about Windows, wasn't it... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Jan 13 23:37:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: Re: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 (Shawn T. Rutledge) References: <3.0.1.16.20010113130248.31a73be2@mailhost.intellistar.net> <14944.63439.831688.169270@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20010113185454.F14057@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <14945.15100.372396.393076@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 13, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > Granted there's more plastic in them than there used to be, but HP > > still makes the best test equipment that money can buy, as far as I'm > > Err, you mean Agilent does, right? *GRR*. NO, I mean HP does. Even if they're calling themselves Agilent now. Fucking suits. -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Sat Jan 13 23:39:30 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 In-Reply-To: <200101140430.f0E4U6A02342@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jan 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > Yep. Agilent makes that great test equipment now. No way would > we want to keep using the long-respected, world-reknowned, > instantly-recognizable brand name of "Hewlett-Packard" anymore, > would we? I mean, for cryin' out loud, them guys are dead! Of course not, who in Dilbertland would ever want to do something that sensible? > So, you can use your Agilent test equipment while you call > Accenture on your Lucent phone over phone lines owned by > Verizon. Of course, if you're in the field using your fabulous Agilent Wow, you must have read my mind; I find these things senseless too. Sometimes, I really think that some of the marketing goons get their minds stuck in some sort of weird la-la land resulting from too strong an infusion of the world of Dilbert in their dreams, which they can't separate from reality. Here in Baltimore, when one called the telephone company, one called C&P Telephone, which was part of the Bell System... that became Bell Atlantic - ok, still not too confusing. Then, this past year, the name changed to Verizon. How the heck does anyone associate this, insipid sounding, name, Verizon, with telephones? Yes, the same people who now make us dial a 10 digit number for all local telephone calls, which includes the area code, because they thought that it would be too much of a pain for businesses, etc. to have to use a separate area code for modems, pagers and cell phones. Never mind that the seven-digit number was decided upon for a scientific/psychological reason, as seven digits are the most that the average person can easily remember. Of course, consider that Baltimore Gas and Electric decided to modernize its image, and took the "and" out of its name; it's no longer BG&E as it's been known for many decades, but BGE. No one at BGE, however, can explain to me what "gas electric" is... yes, I know what gas and electric are, but, what's this new product called gas electric? > test set, you can call Accenture on your Cingular Wireless phone. > That is, if you can even figure out how the heck to spell it, much > less pronounce it. Same thing for Verizon wireless. How the hell > are you s'posed to find the company if you can't pronounce it or > even spell it? No problem. Just do like the people in their marketing departments do when they can't spell a name. Scribble something illegible on a piece of paper, and hand it to the right person in management, then declare that a marketing study has come up with a new company name. Of course, try using that same logic when writing them checks to pay your bills, and you'll eventually get your service cut off. > Marketing weenies. When did technology get overthrown by > marketing weenies? I'll tell you when. About the same time that idiots who never took a TV set, car engine or lock apart, who never built a radio or hot-rodded an engine, who never played with erector sets and real hammers and nails, and soldering irons, as children, began enrolling in college as engineering majrs and got hired by MBAs, (Meaningless But Arrogant) who are, no doubt, hired because the marketing department says that MBAs are good for the company's image, and the MBAs hire marketing people with low IQs, like everyone else, are't paid to think, but to "fit in" with the company's "culture" and will be good little corporate 'droids. You know, I think I've got it! Someone must have told some CEOs that it's safer to smoke one-hundred dollar bills than tobacco products, and some must have believed it. Who wants to volunteer to roll some big bills and smoke them while undergoing psychological evaluation so that we can verify this hypothesis? NOTE: I happen to know a couple of past and present marketing executives who are very sensible and intelligent people, and mean no offense to them by this. I also went to college with some marketing majors who were very sensible and had some good common sense... of course, I also went to college with some of them who, while they were nice people, didn't quite understand the concept of "reality." -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 14 01:52:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> References: <200101140217.SAA09538@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >>Are you sure? www.netbsd.org/Ports/ still lists it as a "Suggested" Port, not >>even a non-integrated one. > >While it has only been recently integrated, and support is minimal, the MCA >bus is now official in the i386 port. Linux has been quite happily embracing >the Personal System/2 for quite a while now. Linux I have no trouble with, but NONE of the PS2 games I have purchased recently have worked at all on my 9595 PS/2. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 14 01:59:44 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101140314.UAA07281@calico.litterbox.com> References: <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 14, 2001 03:54:40 AM Message-ID: >Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the >Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. Never heard of it. ;) >Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer >platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. Failed only in a marketing sense. As hardware they are one of my favorite old computers. Both Fry's and Compusa have a PS2 setup side by side with a Dreamcast running essentially the same games, no difference. I am amazed Sony hasn't sent out ninja's to stop them from running the demo. From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Jan 14 02:58:28 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <3A61294C.5F1F1F98@mainecoon.com> from Chris Kennedy at "Jan 13, 2001 08:21:32 pm" Message-ID: <20010114085835Z434834-21866+13@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > >Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the > > >Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. > > > > Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer > > platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. > > Ah, well if we're talking about the PS2, I can say with some authority > that at least LInux ran on it before the TX5900 core ever hit fab. It was > part of the verification suite we ran on the behavioral and gate level > simulators as well as on the god-awful Quickturn... > The PS2 development system runs Linux, but the PS2 itself doesn't, at least at the present time. By the way, some of the development software was produced by Red Hat. There are two problems with porting Linux to the PS2: 1) Actually getting Linux on the PS2. Currently the only way to get software on the PS2 is by DVD, and Sony uses its own format. Apparently the format is rather difficult to break, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone does crack it in the future. 2) The real killer is the highly non-standard peripherals. The graphics hardware is totally non-standard. It would be quite difficult to produce graphics drivers for it, and and X server would be a real pain. I'm not sure X would perform well on this configuration. I think the Microsoft Xbox would be a better choice for Linux, at least it has a standard graphics chip. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From flo at rdel.co.uk Sun Jan 14 03:32:06 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010113092901.01eabe80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A617216.78509E5A@rdel.co.uk> Chuck McManis wrote: > > This needs immediate action everyone, Compaq is in the process of > removing ALL of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information from > the Web. We've already lost the DEC Technical Journal articles that > were on-line, and the Digital Timeline pages. I have a backup of the Timeline pages. If they don't get restored and anyone wants a copy, let me know. From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Jan 14 08:02:04 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010113092901.01eabe80@208.226.86.10> <3A617216.78509E5A@rdel.co.uk> Message-ID: <3A61B15B.265D172E@idirect.com> >Paul Williams wrote: > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > This needs immediate action everyone, Compaq is in the process of > > removing ALL of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information from > > the Web. We've already lost the DEC Technical Journal articles that > > were on-line, and the Digital Timeline pages. > I have a backup of the Timeline pages. If they don't get restored and > anyone wants a copy, let me know. Jerome Fine replies: I have two questions. (a) Did Compuserve do essentially the same thing a number of years ago and if so was any of that information archived and saved elsewhere? (b) What is the copyright status of the old "Digital Equipment Corp" information? In particular, if Compaq no longer makes it available and also will not sell the information, will Compaq also prevent anyone else who has independently archived and saved the information from continuing to make it available again free of charge? I have seen some independent sites in Australia: http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/ http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/ but right now they are not responding. However, in the past they did have some content that I found interesting. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Jan 14 10:06:18 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) References: <20010114085835Z434834-21866+13@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3A61CE7A.947795D7@mainecoon.com> Mark Green wrote: > > > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > > > >Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about the > > > >Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the PS/2. > > > > > > Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer > > > platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. > > > > Ah, well if we're talking about the PS2, I can say with some authority > > that at least LInux ran on it before the TX5900 core ever hit fab. It was > > part of the verification suite we ran on the behavioral and gate level > > simulators as well as on the god-awful Quickturn... > > > > The PS2 development system runs Linux, but the PS2 itself doesn't, > at least at the present time. By the way, some of the development > software was produced by Red Hat. Let me try that again. Linux was ported by one of my teams to the verification environment for what was then known as the R5900. Included as part of this environment were high fidelity software implementation of most of the PS2 peripheral devices; in the case of Quickturn this was a hybrid solution with physical peripherals implemented by a PC and the mapping between the R5900 and the PC performed by a slug of software and a couple of gate arrays; essentially the same hardware that Toshiba used for development of its first DVD decoder. As for Red Hat producing some of the development software, it's only by act of purchase. Since the R5900 is a modified MIPS architecture the decision was made to use gnu as the basis for the toolchain. Cygnus had the contract to produce the production toolchain for SCE, but they were so incredibly slow that we ended up building our own to support the verification effort. The statement that Red Hat had anything to do with it is only valid in the context that Red Hat eventually purchased Cygnus. > There are two problems with porting Linux to the PS2: > > 1) Actually getting Linux on the PS2. Currently the only way > to get software on the PS2 is by DVD, and Sony uses its own > format. Apparently the format is rather difficult to break, but > I wouldn't be surprised if someone does crack it in the future. Okay, so I'll admit that some things are easier when you have the keys to the kingdom ;-) > 2) The real killer is the highly non-standard peripherals. The > graphics hardware is totally non-standard. It would be quite > difficult to produce graphics drivers for it, and and X server > would be a real pain. I'm not sure X would perform well on this > configuration. GPUII is decidedly an -- architecturally interesting -- bit of work. Two groups of FPU units, its own assembler and weird DMA porting between it and the processor (of course the processor itself can be a DMA _target_ -- there's 1K of on-board scratch=pad ram that's referenced by creating a PTE with what's normally a reserved bit in the MIPS ISA PTE spec set -- that can be loaded via DMA while the processor's pipe contnue execution (and for that matter, while the BIU continues to fetch instructions and operands). While it wouldn't materially affect a _port_, getting some apps to run would be interesting as well. The TX5900 uses the same floating point format as the GPU, which is best described as single-precision IEEE without truncate or rounding modes. > I think the Microsoft Xbox would be a better choice for Linux, at > least it has a standard graphics chip. I'd expect that to be the case. The PS2 was hardly designed as a general purpose machine; there's all sorts of architectural brain damage that makes sense only in the context of gaming. Still, it's interesting how many problems we found running apps on top of Linux on top of the simulations and emulations vs. what was found with the purpose-build verification suite and RTG tools. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 14 10:25:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 13, 1 11:52:01 pm" Message-ID: <200101141625.IAA10710@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >>>Are you sure? www.netbsd.org/Ports/ still lists it as a "Suggested" Port, >>>not even a non-integrated one. >>While it has only been recently integrated, and support is minimal, the MCA >>bus is now official in the i386 port. Linux has been quite happily embracing >>the Personal System/2 for quite a while now. > Linux I have no trouble with, but NONE of the PS2 games I have purchased > recently have worked at all on my 9595 PS/2. Yeah, I think there's some issue with MCA causing graphics glitches with Gran Turismo II. ;-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Please dispose of this message in the usual manner. -- Mission: Impossible - From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 14 11:17:34 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Datamedia DT80/1 References: <20010108172723.RLTP17226.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <004e01c07e4d$e3f91f70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I found a Datamedia DT80/1 dumped in a snow bank on my way home with a Sparc 1+. The Sparc was abandoned in a condominium board room, and they were greatfull to have it removed. But does anyone have info on the Datamedia? I searched the web and got a SONY site. It seems to be missing the front panel. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Jan 14 11:35:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: References: <200101140314.UAA07281@calico.litterbox.com> <842.414T2000T2345425optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 14, 2001 03:54:40 AM Message-ID: >Both Fry's and Compusa have a PS2 setup side by side with a Dreamcast >running essentially the same games, no difference. I am amazed Sony hasn't >sent out ninja's to stop them from running the demo. We're totally off topic here, however, I've got to disagree here. Something tells me the machines were running "Dead or Alive 2". Oddly enough my wife and I are both huge 3D Fighter fans. We've got "Dead or Alive 2", "Soul Caliber" and 2 or 3 others on the Dreamcast. Both "Dead or Alive 2", and "Soul Caliber" are incredible, but the word is that "Soul Caliber" pretty much pushes the Dreamcast to its limits. However, from what I saw yesterday graphically at least "Tekken Tag Team" blows "Soul Caliber" away! I was totally stunned by the level of detail in the backgrounds in Tekken. The game is actually hard to play, just for the fact I was to busy admiring the beautiful background graphics, and all the movement in them (one tropical setting even has the grass moving). OTOH, based on specs I've seen before the Dreamcast wins on Audio. However, I'm wondering if PS2 games aren't going to start including surround sound, since the system supports Dolby Digital and DTS for DVD playback. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aclark at envirolink.org Sun Jan 14 13:35:35 2001 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Corvus Systems Transporter Apple Rev C In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFBC@oa2-server.oa.oclc. org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010114143430.0280ed20@manatee.envirolink.org> Does anyone know what this card does? Arthur Clark From aclark at envirolink.org Sun Jan 14 13:35:35 2001 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Corvus Systems Transporter Apple Rev C In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFBC@oa2-server.oa.oclc. org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010114143430.0280ed20@manatee.envirolink.org> Does anyone know what this card does? Arthur Clark From kheydon at Solidworks.com Sun Jan 14 14:25:09 2001 From: kheydon at Solidworks.com (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? Message-ID: <5936ED1A3F41D311BDC60090278874663D695B@MSX102> > I don't believe I've ever seen a 924. I have a 925, and gave > away about > half a dozen 910/912/920 types a few years back. How does > the 924 differ from the 925? > Point me at the details of a 925 and I'll tell you. -- Kevan Software engineers are so infatuated with the fact that they can, that they don't stop to think if they should. From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 14 14:28:19 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? References: <5936ED1A3F41D311BDC60090278874663D695B@MSX102> Message-ID: <000701c07e68$885d7a60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Golly! ... I've no idea where the details are to be found. I've got a manual ... somewhere ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevan Heydon" To: Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 1:25 PM Subject: RE: Anybody in the UK want a TeleVideo 924 Terminal? > > > I don't believe I've ever seen a 924. I have a 925, and gave > > away about > > half a dozen 910/912/920 types a few years back. How does > > the 924 differ from the 925? > > > > Point me at the details of a 925 and I'll tell you. > > -- > Kevan > Software engineers are so infatuated with the fact that they can, that they > don't stop to think if they should. > > From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Sun Jan 14 15:22:26 2001 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Corvus Systems Transporter Apple Rev C In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010114143430.0280ed20@manatee.envirolink.org> Message-ID: <000201c07e70$177ed980$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Arthur Clark asked: > Does anyone know what this card does? This is a "Corvus Omninet Network" interface card. It was designed to be cabled to a shareable "Corvus Omninet Network Server Hard Drive". Corvus made similar interface cards for PCs (ISA and MCA) and LSI-11s. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Jan 14 15:55:16 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <20010113225541.FEMO8967.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at "Jan 13, 2001 05:15:45 pm" Message-ID: <200101142155.f0ELtGJ10517@bg-tc-ppp770.monmouth.com> > Because the DOSbox support is so strong, not only can you run dos in a > window, but you can run up to 240 copies of DIFFERENT 16bit operating > systems. I've had a Win95 dosbox running next to a 95b dosbox next to a > 98a dosbox next to a 98b dosbox next to a Xenix box, next to a win311 box, > next to a ... you get the picture. > I assume this is a Win95 C\:> prompt -- rather than the full Win95 gui. Bochs, of course, lets you get the gui up on top of OS/2 or Unix. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Jan 14 15:56:51 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: OS/2 networking Message-ID: <200101142156.f0ELup410539@bg-tc-ppp770.monmouth.com> > From: THETechnoid@home.com > > > Its clear that NTs dos support is based on OS/2s. > > Just for curiousity I've got a OS/2 Warp V3 kit including the bonus pack. > > What would it take to get networking going (TCP/IP prefered)? > > Also what later versions can be purchased and approximate cost? > > Allison Legally, either Warp Connect or Warp4 -- or some other IBM software like TCP/IP that has the Ethernet driver hooks... It also can be done through the selective application of OS/2 fixpacks to get the necessary parts. (this violates the software licenses) To see how to do it check the web search engines and OS/2 news groups. I've got Warp 4 and have been very pleased with it. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 14 17:19:47 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101141625.IAA10710@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Jan 13, 1 11:52:01 pm" Message-ID: >> Linux I have no trouble with, but NONE of the PS2 games I have purchased >> recently have worked at all on my 9595 PS/2. > >Yeah, I think there's some issue with MCA causing graphics glitches with >Gran Turismo II. ;-P Once I find a decent 3d video card I think it should work OK. From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Jan 14 19:20:36 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... Message-ID: <200101150120.UAA07961@drs-esg.com> Does anybody happen to have a spare one of these? I have a AT&T 5620 terminal missing the mouse and I think that is the one that goes with it. Terminal has a DB-9 connector. > It is bright red, almost perfectly round, Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Jan 14 19:29:34 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress Message-ID: <200101150129.UAA08029@drs-esg.com> The techincal journals are still hiding at http://www.research.compaq.com/wrl/DECarchives/DTJ/ The timeline seems to be mirrored at http://www.montagar.com/dfwcug/VMS_HTML/timeline/1957.htm David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From truthanl at oclc.org Sun Jan 14 20:04:57 2001 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFD1@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Thanks Pat for the Help. I got a cable adapted to the SCSI Stub Cable and the unit found the SCSI CD-ROM And I was able to load the OS off the CD. I have loaded the root , its password, and built myself a user account as well. The CD load however disagrees with the release notes on finding the Xinit X-windows AIX application. So it appears I will be looking for a general guide on navigating AIX,its tools, and applications. Right now all I can confirm is that the N40 loads in the High Function Terminal mode. (HFT) The release notes infer that I should be able to load a windowed menu application from the command line be simply typing "xinit" - this is not happening. I will be looking for more web based reference Material. Any pointers are still greatly appreciated. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Pat Barron [mailto:pat@transarc.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 11:38 AM To: Truthan,Larry Cc: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, Truthan,Larry wrote: > The "66" entry is invalidated in the 10 element diagnostic menu and the sub > menues under each element. The initial sevice selection is "language > select"). I havent tried "66" at the language select. On the first pass, I > am not making headway with your suggestion. Oh, also, just to clarify - the menu I am talking about is the AIX diagnostic menu, which only has 4 or 5 choices on it as far as I recall. This is accessed by booting AIX in "Service Mode". This isn't to be confused with the diagnostics in the firmware (whose menu apparently has 10 entries). I poked around and found a document that might help you: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RS/6000 N40 Laptop * Setting the System to Service Mode: 1. Press the key sequence [Pause][R] to reset the N40 (or power it off). 2. Then interrupt with [Pause][K] key sequence as soon as the IBM logo appears. 3. After several seconds, a language selection menu will appear; select appropriate language. 4. Then press 99 to go to the main menu 5. Select #7 (Change Soft-Keyswitch Setting). 6. Select #3 (Service). 7. Then press 99 to go to the main menu. 8. Select #10 to start the boot off the CD. * Limitations: > The 7007-N40 is supported by a special N40 version of AIX 3.2.5. The 7007-N40 is NOT supported at AIX V4. > The support for the 7007-N40 and N40 AIX 3.2.5 has been withdrawn, thus questions are answered on a best effort basis. * Information > Software maintenance on this system can be done by booting off the AIX 3.2.5 for N40 cdrom. To do this, attach the cdrom drive to the SCSI bus. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You already knew most of this, but I'm sending it along in case it might help. --Pat. From MTPro at aol.com Sun Jan 14 21:32:18 2001 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: IBM System/36 for free! Message-ID: <49.619da9b.2793c942@aol.com> Please respond directly to rmays@satx.rr.com David Greelish Publisher Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com In a message dated 12/26/00 6:36:25 PM, rmays@satx.rr.com writes: << We have an IBM System/36 mini-computer (possibly still in working condition) that we would be interested in donating. >> From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sun Jan 14 23:02:31 2001 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: ALERT! Major Purge in progress In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010113092901.01eabe80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <13611620127.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Compaq is a PC company. Hell, they already killed DECUS. I suggest you all copy everything yourselves and save what you can. Compaq is very unlikely to help. As I said, they're a PC company, and anything that doesn't involve paying Intel or Microsoft is bad to them. In any case, best of luck. ------- From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 15 00:38:31 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <670.414T1750T3335511optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <3A625497.7703.418924@localhost> > Zane H. Healy skrev: > > >>Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking > >>about the Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to > >>as the PS/2. > > >Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer > >platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. > > Shhh, don't say that in public! The MCA Mafia might hear you! > http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/mcaindex.htm > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's > self- acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak > played HYDLIDE 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE > series!!! > K. Ikeda, MSX-Print > They already have. The contract is out on heem. He will soon receive a "friendly greetings from Peter Wendt' message from the godfather. lorenzo Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 15 00:38:31 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: References: <200101140314.UAA07281@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3A625497.17891.418960@localhost> Flame bait if I've ever seen it. Just because some marketing bleeb who has little or no knowledge about computer history came up with what he thought was a neat designation doesn't mean we have to obediently follow along. Let's not compound the designation confusion. This "flavor of the year" will soon pass on (failed game machine ?) and be replaced by another. Maybe by a Digital Entertainment Computer. Hmmm, DEC- has a ring to it don't you think ? Reminds me of how IBM hijacked the Personal Computer (PC) designation. It's just another bloody game for overactive adolescents with the Hawaian disorder "lak-uv-nookie". For a supposed "failed computer" the PS2 made IBM an awful lot of money, also introduced VGA, plug and play on a PC, and because of IBM's stupid MCA liscencing policies forced their competitors to come up with EISA. Since Compaq took over DEC I guess you could say that DEC was a "failed" computer company. But then again what can you expect from an "OpenVMS enthusiast" Congratuations, you just joined Richard on my hopeless TWIT list. larry > >Um. I thought, given the context, that this person was talking about > >the Sony Play Station 2, which is also frequently refered to as the > >PS/2. > > Exactly! PS2 .eq. Playstation 2. OTOH the PS/2 is a failed computer > platfrom from IBM. Even the Playstation two box says PS2. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | > healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | > healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | > Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | > and Zane's Computer Museum. | | > http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From marvin at rain.org Mon Jan 15 01:26:10 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Electolytic Capacitors References: <3A625497.7703.418924@localhost> Message-ID: <3A62A612.48063A24@rain.org> I was reading the Heath listserver and someone gave this URL which seems to have some good information on reforming electrolytics: http://test.angela.com/catalog/how-to/about_caps.html Also, I have a number (probably 25 - 50) of large electrolytics (approx. 1"+ - 3+" in dia) at probably 10,000 uF to 100,000 uF or so at from 10VDC to 25VDC. Anyone need any of this things? I will keep some for the old S-100 power supplies but room is becoming a premium! From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 15 04:50:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101141625.IAA10710@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <994.415T2200T7106233optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >>>>Are you sure? www.netbsd.org/Ports/ still lists it as a "Suggested" Port, >>>>not even a non-integrated one. >>>While it has only been recently integrated, and support is minimal, the MCA >>>bus is now official in the i386 port. Linux has been quite happily >>>embracing the Personal System/2 for quite a while now. >> Linux I have no trouble with, but NONE of the PS2 games I have purchased >> recently have worked at all on my 9595 PS/2. >Yeah, I think there's some issue with MCA causing graphics glitches with >Gran Turismo II. ;-P It worked quite fine, albeit slowly, when I added an XGA2 adapter. It seemed that the onboard vanilla XGA lacked some resolutions. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Se pensate che alcune sigle dei cartoni in Italia siano bruttine, ascoltatevi quella di Kenshiro in francese ("Ken le survivant")... Non saprei se sia pi? trash questa o quella di Mazinga Z in Francese... Nicola Solati om den franska signaturen till Hokut? no Ken From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jan 15 09:57:07 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:11 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Nuke Richmond (Long) [Mike] Message-ID: It was my neighbors daughter writing a essay for a college application, it turned out she had actually printed it once and also didn't realize she saved it on disk. Her word setup now saves every 5 minutes. I'm thinking of writing a column in the local newspaper, circulation 800, about computer tidbits. Maybe I'll try and explain what computers can and can't do. My only worry is that every local Microsoft user will call and ask questions. But I am going to put in an advertisement offering computer recycling, I haul a lot of stuff to the local not-for-profit computer surplus. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From pat at transarc.ibm.com Mon Jan 15 09:53:10 2001 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: RISC6000 7007 POWERportable N40 In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFFD1@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Truthan,Larry wrote: > I got a cable adapted to the SCSI Stub Cable and the unit found the SCSI > CD-ROM And I was able to load the OS off the CD. > > I have loaded the root , its password, and built myself a user account as > well. Congratulations on getting the machine reloaded! I'm glad it all went smoothly. > The CD load however disagrees with the release notes on finding the Xinit > X-windows AIX application. So it appears I will be looking for a general > guide on navigating AIX,its tools, and applications. > > Right now all I can confirm is that the N40 loads in the High Function > Terminal mode. (HFT) The release notes infer that I should be able to load > a windowed menu application from the command line be simply typing "xinit" - > this is not happening. What happens when you type "xinit" - do you just get "Command not found", or something else? Make sure that /usr/bin/X11 is on your $PATH; this is the directory where the X applications live (prior to X11R6, anyway). If it isn't, your shell won't be able to locate the program. > I will be looking for more web based reference Material. Any pointers are > still greatly appreciated. Well, you can start with http://www.rs6000.ibm.com/resource/aix_resource/Pubs/ which corresponds to AIX 4.3.3. Remember that this will be somewhat different than the AIX 3.2.5 that you are running. AIX 3.2.5 doc is probably still orderable, if you wanted to do that. --Pat. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jan 15 10:44:12 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 Message-ID: I saw an article that says the real reason for all of the "new" names is that no company wants to be saddled with their old name and the associated reputation. Each new management wants to "reinvent" the company. The first step is to get rid of the old name. If you can't pronounce the name and it has no preexisting connotation then the company can define themselves anyway they want to. Another side effect is that you can get rid of all of the old liabilities, retirement plans, and support costs. You get a new disposable product from a new disposable company. Back on track. Has any body interfaced a web cam to any VMS systems? I'd like to connect one to my VAX systems. mmcfadden@cmh.edu From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 15 11:55:53 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <00c401c07dcc$51a4a940$07749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010115180423.YCIY21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I think there might be some confusion about networking with versions of OS/2 later than 2.11. Warp 3 shipped a couple of months before Warp Connect. They are for practical purposes the same product. If you've got the OS and bonus pack on disk, then it is more than likely you already have TCP/IP and peer networking etcetera. If you have any questions (like how to install a nic driver if it didn't automatically detect yours, ask and I've got your back. I've got a couple of spare Connect Licenses and Cd's. I see it on E-bay for single-digit dollars as well. You can buy the very latest version from BMT Micro online. It is called EcomStation and is basicly OS/2 Warp Server For E-Business without some of the server functions such as security, but the only limit to the number of connections a warp client will support short of it's bandwidth and processor speed. There is a setting in the network performance tuning dialog in which you can set the number of connections you can support. EcomStation costs $238.00 for the full version sans SMP. SMP will cost you another $99.00. At the moment, the Preview version of EcomStation is what is being shipped. When it is finished you will receive another set of cd's free of charge. It is kinda strange to call it a Preview because IBM already finished the product. What Serenity Systems is doing is bundleing apps and such. You can go to the Serenity Systems website and check it out. (http://www.ecomstation.com) In <00c401c07dcc$51a4a940$07749a8d@ajp166>, on 01/15/01 at 12:55 PM, "ajp166" said: >Its clear that NTs dos support is based on OS/2s. >Just for curiousity I've got a OS/2 Warp V3 kit including the bonus pack. >What would it take to get networking going (TCP/IP prefered)? >Also what later versions can be purchased and approximate cost? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Jan 15 12:28:36 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: Richard, >Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:30:01 -0700 >From: "Richard Erlacher" > >Sir, you damage your credibility with statements like some you've made here. >While it's true that the Microsoft products may not be the "best" thing for >thos of us who are inclined to fuss and fiddle with our computers, they're >WAY better for those who can't, won't, or shouldn't. There are errors of commission and errors of omission. You make one of the latter here. While it is true that Microsoft packages its OS's and Applications in such a way that they are easier to install, configure, and use than most similar unix software, it is also true that Apple packages its OS's and Applications so that they are *much* easier to install, configure, and use than Microsoft software. Mac OS software is far superior to equivalent Windows anything (as well as to Unix anything in my experience) for those of us not inclined to fuss or fiddle with our computers. This I know from personal experience with MacOS, Windows 95/98, NeXTStep (a variant of unix), Solaris, and AIX. I cannot speak for Linux, and there may be other OS/Application sets (Amiga?) on either end of the spectrum that are pertinent here but not familiar to me. >They enable a whole range of people who, 15 years ago, wouldn't have been >allowed in the same room with a computer to accomplish useful work, >something which FEW of us do, computer design, programming, and maintenance >all being overhead rather than useful work in most environments. They also >enable people to use resources such as the internet, who otherwise might >never have that experience, never mind that they use it primarily to save a >trip to the convenience store to buy a magazine in a brown wrapper. Although the market has disagreed horribly with me for many years, I can see no valid argument for choosing the Microsoft middle ground between Macintosh ease of use and unix power, security, and flexibility. (The most-cited argument, lower cost of underlying hardware, has been shown repeatedly to be invalid in most cases because of the time typically spent/lost trying to get Windows and its applications to play nice together, fighting viruses, configuring networks, etc.; I'll admit that competent power users like you and Allison can probably circumvent that and make Windows systems essentially as cost-effective as MacOS or linux systems.) As always, if the application you need is available on only one OS, that OS is the best for you and there's no valid argument against that, whatever the other characteristics of the OS. But for people who wouldn't have been allowed in the same room with a computer, or who just want to access the internet, Microsoft is a *long, long* way behind Apple and its third parties for ease-of-use. >I would exhort you to eschew reiteration of other people's falsehoods and, >instead, search for a solution to the problems you so clearly perceive. >Squandering bandwidth on matters that most of the computer world doesn't >perceive as a problem will only hasten the day when we have to pay for our >internet use by the bit. My solution is maintaining a Microsoft-free zone at home and minimizing use of Microsoft at work. This is not only because I dislike their products (excepting Excel, which has merit IMO), but because I really regret and fear what their illegal business practices have done to the industry in many areas, including file interchange standards, expected reliability and pre-release testing of software, customer support, etc. etc. >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:06:10 -0700 >From: "Richard Erlacher" >... >Both Windows and the popular varieties of LINUX are pretty easy to install >these days. However, Windows suffers greatly from the fact that it has >tried to maintain the usefulness of those applications that were written for >and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. >... I must point out that MacOS has the same "burden" - and bears it *much* better, as "antique" Mac software is far more likely to run on a new Mac system than same-vintage Win/DOS software on a Windows machine. (I *hate* to think I may have accidentally brought this back on-topic...) >Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:20:43 -0700 >From: "Richard Erlacher" > >It's just the American way of doing business. Detroit's been doing it for >50 years. Get over it! By definition, it's not the American way if it violates US antitrust laws. MS was convicted in court of criminal practices (anticompetitive actions) essentially victimizing me, the consumer. Am I going to willingly send them more money? Is this a trick question? Based on their record, I believe that if they can find a legal or illegal way to decrease Linux' effectiveness, they will do it immediately. I'd much rather see Linux reduce MS to a footnote. CorelSuite, AppleWorks, NetScape, Adobe, Filemaker, and StarOffice would all still be there, I'd still be able to get my work done - and file standards would stay a lot more standard. - Mark From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 15 12:34:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... In-Reply-To: <200101150120.UAA07961@drs-esg.com> from "David Gesswein" at Jan 14, 1 08:20:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 907 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010115/6dba1f90/attachment.ksh From philpem at btinternet.com Mon Jan 15 13:01:13 2001 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Silicon Valley pioneer William Hewlett dead at 87 References: <200101150032.SAA52737@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <002101c07f25$89990bc0$d6f67ad5@papemjr> On Sat, Jan 13, 2001 at 07:50:23PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > Granted there's more plastic in them than there used to be, but HP > still makes the best test equipment that money can buy, as far as I'm I can't speak for the HP, er... Agilent scopes, but I've never had any bother with my secondhand Gould OS1100A. It looks like it's around 15-25 years old, 30MHz, delayed sweep, CRT, IEC-style power connector (same as the ones used on the IBM PC and many other machines), etc. It takes a while to warm up and for the damn trace to stop jumping around, but other than that it's a great scope. Anyone got a manual (service or otherwise) for this ageing dinosaur? The timebase calibration is a bit out. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Jan 15 13:11:34 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <006c01c07f27$111ae040$319eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > My solution is maintaining a Microsoft-free zone at home and > minimizing use of Microsoft at work. This is not only because I dislike > their products (excepting Excel, which has merit IMO) On that note, I would put in a good word for Flight Simulator as well. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 15 13:13:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I must point out that MacOS has the same "burden" - and bears it >*much* better, as "antique" Mac software is far more likely to run on a new >Mac system than same-vintage Win/DOS software on a Windows machine. (I >*hate* to think I may have accidentally brought this back on-topic...) I currently run the Insignia Solutions SoftPC Professional emaulator (80286, VGA, MS-DOS 5, circa 1992) on my PowerCurve under Mac OS 9.0.4 so that I may run LapDos II (a DOS-shell type program used to transfer files between either a PDD/PDD2 or my Tandy 102 directly and a MS-DOS machine). The version of LapDOS I am running dates back to 1987 and is connected to one of the Mac's serial ports using an adapter cable from CompUSA and the CompuLink cable available from Club 100. This version of SoftPC predates the PPC processor and as such is a native 68k program. Because of this, it doesn't run as fast as it might, considering the G3 processor in the machine, but it does run without a problem, even to the point of having a folder that is shared between MS-DOS and the Mac OS and which is accessible from either side. My next thing is to try and run 'Chuck Yeagers Advance Flight Trainer' on the emulated machine. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Jan 15 13:36:02 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <20010115180423.YCIY21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at "Jan 15, 2001 12:55:53 pm" Message-ID: <200101151936.f0FJa3t13150@bg-tc-ppp790.monmouth.com> > I think there might be some confusion about networking with versions of > OS/2 later than 2.11. > > Warp 3 shipped a couple of months before Warp Connect. They are for > practical purposes the same product. If you've got the OS and bonus pack > on disk, then it is more than likely you already have TCP/IP and peer > networking etcetera. If you have any questions (like how to install a nic > driver if it didn't automatically detect yours, ask and I've got your > back. Yup... It doesn't detect nics because it doesn't include the MPTN stuff and LAN drivers. How do you get warp (not connect) to ethernet without violating either IBM's MPTN (or is it MPTS) licenses. I'd love to find a "legal" way without Warp Connect, TCP/IP or Netware for OS/2 which have the necessary NDIS ethernet hooks... Bill (who owns 2 copies of Warp, 1 of Warp4) -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 15 13:36:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <006c01c07f27$111ae040$319eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <006c01c07f27$111ae040$319eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: > > My solution is maintaining a Microsoft-free zone at >home and >> minimizing use of Microsoft at work. This is not only >because I dislike >> their products (excepting Excel, which has merit IMO) > >On that note, I would put in a good word for Flight >Simulator as well. The version of Flight Simulator that MS did for the TRS-80 Model 2000 was really nice. 640 x 400 with 8 colors. I believe they produced it in the 1984/85 timeframe and it totally blew away the standard IBM CGA version. I've been trying to find someone who still had it for years but have had no luck. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 15 14:22:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <001501c07f30$f7525620$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Mark, The language you use clearly indicates that you won't be persuaded by the facts. While it would be nice if there were something that the masses liked better, the seeming monopoly, (others have clearly pointed out that it isn't one) that Microsoft has enjoyed is, as I've pointed out, the result of the fact that people have to buy SOMETHING to use as an OS, and MS WINDOWS is the most frequent choice. Now that many people are finding out what you and your fellow MS-haters have seemingly found, I hope people will quit buying yet another unsastisfactory product from the same vendor, whichever one that is. So long as people keep buying the next release instead of insisting that the vendor provide fixes BEFORE they buy another product from that vendor, we're all screwed! New computers will always be supplied with what amounts to the least costly OS, and the one that's more popular, particularly if they're the same. Availability of a newer, perhaps better, but probably not, OS doesn't mean we all have to run out and get it. Now that hardware sales have dropped significantly, perhaps the voice of the users who have been so frustrated with the unfortunate interactions between applications and the OS will be heard. If the auto industry expperience is any indication, however, it's not likely. The problem with perpetuating the current situation is that it will spread into other vendors' products, until the OS you love to hate becomes the benchmark. Until software vendors are held to a standard where their products, any one erroneously placed bit of which could make the whole system come tumbling down like a house of cards, be made to predict, precisely, the sesponse of their product to any potential combination of memory/disk contents to a depth of whatever the minimal OS configuration is, will be when faced with any combination of inputs, to a depth equal to the permutaions and combinations of 2^n such inputs where n is the word width, and the executives and managers of the company be held personally liable to refund 3x the purchase price to each and every customer who paid for the product, this situation will persist. Until the software vendors are held to the standard that their products must be PERFECT in EVERY WAY, with respect to their own characterization, however, it's the purchasers' fault that their products aren't what they want. Since YOU own an alternative to Windows that you hold to be better, YOU should use that and not buy Windows. If you use Windows knowing that there's something you like better, you get what you deserve. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Tapley" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > Richard, > > >Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:30:01 -0700 > >From: "Richard Erlacher" > > > >Sir, you damage your credibility with statements like some you've made here. > >While it's true that the Microsoft products may not be the "best" thing for > >thos of us who are inclined to fuss and fiddle with our computers, they're > >WAY better for those who can't, won't, or shouldn't. > > There are errors of commission and errors of omission. You make one > of the latter here. While it is true that Microsoft packages its OS's and > Applications in such a way that they are easier to install, configure, and > use than most similar unix software, it is also true that Apple packages > its OS's and Applications so that they are *much* easier to install, > configure, and use than Microsoft software. > Mac OS software is far superior to equivalent Windows anything (as > well as to Unix anything in my experience) for those of us not inclined to > fuss or fiddle with our computers. This I know from personal experience > with MacOS, Windows 95/98, NeXTStep (a variant of unix), Solaris, and AIX. > I cannot speak for Linux, and there may be other OS/Application sets > (Amiga?) on either end of the spectrum that are pertinent here but not > familiar to me. > > >They enable a whole range of people who, 15 years ago, wouldn't have been > >allowed in the same room with a computer to accomplish useful work, > >something which FEW of us do, computer design, programming, and maintenance > >all being overhead rather than useful work in most environments. They also > >enable people to use resources such as the internet, who otherwise might > >never have that experience, never mind that they use it primarily to save a > >trip to the convenience store to buy a magazine in a brown wrapper. > > Although the market has disagreed horribly with me for many years, > I can see no valid argument for choosing the Microsoft middle ground > between Macintosh ease of use and unix power, security, and flexibility. > (The most-cited argument, lower cost of underlying hardware, has been shown > repeatedly to be invalid in most cases because of the time typically > spent/lost trying to get Windows and its applications to play nice > together, fighting viruses, configuring networks, etc.; I'll admit that > competent power users like you and Allison can probably circumvent that and > make Windows systems essentially as cost-effective as MacOS or linux > systems.) > As always, if the application you need is available on only one OS, > that OS is the best for you and there's no valid argument against that, > whatever the other characteristics of the OS. But for people who wouldn't > have been allowed in the same room with a computer, or who just want to > access the internet, Microsoft is a *long, long* way behind Apple and its > third parties for ease-of-use. > > >I would exhort you to eschew reiteration of other people's falsehoods and, > >instead, search for a solution to the problems you so clearly perceive. > >Squandering bandwidth on matters that most of the computer world doesn't > >perceive as a problem will only hasten the day when we have to pay for our > >internet use by the bit. > > My solution is maintaining a Microsoft-free zone at home and > minimizing use of Microsoft at work. This is not only because I dislike > their products (excepting Excel, which has merit IMO), but because I really > regret and fear what their illegal business practices have done to the > industry in many areas, including file interchange standards, expected > reliability and pre-release testing of software, customer support, etc. etc. > > >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:06:10 -0700 > >From: "Richard Erlacher" > >... > >Both Windows and the popular varieties of LINUX are pretty easy to install > >these days. However, Windows suffers greatly from the fact that it has > >tried to maintain the usefulness of those applications that were written for > >and bought concurrently with much earlier versions of the OS. > >... > > I must point out that MacOS has the same "burden" - and bears it > *much* better, as "antique" Mac software is far more likely to run on a new > Mac system than same-vintage Win/DOS software on a Windows machine. (I > *hate* to think I may have accidentally brought this back on-topic...) > > >Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:20:43 -0700 > >From: "Richard Erlacher" > > > >It's just the American way of doing business. Detroit's been doing it for > >50 years. Get over it! > > By definition, it's not the American way if it violates US > antitrust laws. MS was convicted in court of criminal practices > (anticompetitive actions) essentially victimizing me, the consumer. Am I > going to willingly send them more money? Is this a trick question? Based on > their record, I believe that if they can find a legal or illegal way to > decrease Linux' effectiveness, they will do it immediately. > I'd much rather see Linux reduce MS to a footnote. CorelSuite, > AppleWorks, NetScape, Adobe, Filemaker, and StarOffice would all still be > there, I'd still be able to get my work done - and file standards would > stay a lot more standard. > > - Mark > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 15 14:33:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've never liked Apple's attitude toward MY work products. Back in the ][+ days, their policy was that if there was a glitch, your data was in the toilet. Many Apple applications didn't even retry when there was a disk read error. You simply had to reset and flush whatever wasn't yet saved. As a consequence, aside from the 7 ][+'s, I've never bought an Apple product. That's what people who don't like MS products should do, IMHO. From what everybody who hates them indicates, there are plenty of options. Somebody ought to send Judge Jackson a copy of a transcript of this thread. Clearly, there is no monopoly! Apple produces a competitive GUI, right? OS/2 is better, it just costs a little more, right? LINUX is cheaper, right? Marginally anti-copetitive practices are common in the corporate world. Where's the problem? Is there nothing better that one who doesn't like MS than go thorugh life MS-bashing? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > I must point out that MacOS has the same "burden" - and bears it > >*much* better, as "antique" Mac software is far more likely to run on a new > >Mac system than same-vintage Win/DOS software on a Windows machine. (I > >*hate* to think I may have accidentally brought this back on-topic...) > > I currently run the Insignia Solutions SoftPC Professional > emaulator (80286, VGA, MS-DOS 5, circa 1992) on my PowerCurve under > Mac OS 9.0.4 so that I may run LapDos II (a DOS-shell type program > used to transfer files between either a PDD/PDD2 or my Tandy 102 > directly and a MS-DOS machine). The version of LapDOS I am running > dates back to 1987 and is connected to one of the Mac's serial ports > using an adapter cable from CompUSA and the CompuLink cable available > from Club 100. This version of SoftPC predates the PPC processor and > as such is a native 68k program. Because of this, it doesn't run as > fast as it might, considering the G3 processor in the machine, but it > does run without a problem, even to the point of having a folder that > is shared between MS-DOS and the Mac OS and which is accessible from > either side. My next thing is to try and run 'Chuck Yeagers Advance > Flight Trainer' on the emulated machine. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 14:52:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... Message-ID: <20010115205238.9135.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > Does anybody happen to have a spare one of these? I have a AT&T > 5620 terminal missing the mouse and I think that is the one that goes with > it. Terminal has a DB-9 connector. > > > It is bright red, almost perfectly round, I do. Anyone with a naked 5620 terminal, contact me off-list for a mouse. I have more than one, but I cannot test them. Anyone want to swap a few mice for a spare terminal? I also have a couple of ROM carts that I think are for them (the one in my hand has a damaged label that reads, in part "...456 615MT/4425 emulation and has three 27128 unlabelled EPROMs and a few TTL parts; somewhere, I may still have a couple of carts with some 27C512s, but I've been recycling the EPROMs from those so I don't know if I have any left) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 15 16:42:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >That's what people who don't like MS products should do, IMHO. From what >everybody who hates them indicates, there are plenty of options. Somebody >ought to send Judge Jackson a copy of a transcript of this thread. Clearly, >there is no monopoly! Apple produces a competitive GUI, right? OS/2 is >better, it just costs a little more, right? LINUX is cheaper, right? >Marginally anti-copetitive practices are common in the corporate world. >Where's the problem? My problem with MS isnt' that it has been successful...it's that they want you to have one choice for all of your needs...thier products. What software companies out there have the resources to take MS on if MS truly decided they wanted to move into that area? MS is as close to a corporation with unlimited resources as any I can think of. They've also become pretty good at dictating what the hardware companies do as well due to the way they license thier software. Sure, there are alternatives, but none that can come even close to actually competing. There have been very few times in history where a single company had such an impenetrable stranglehold on an industry. Anyway, my 2 cents. I normally don't get into the public MS bashing. I've used thier products for years on numerous platforms. I guess we can all thank IBM for the current mess due to the generous agreements they signed with MS in the beginning of IBM-PC development. That, in my opinion, is what provided MS with the foothold they needed, as well as the funds. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 15 18:18:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: References: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > My problem with MS isnt' that it has been successful...it's >that they want you to have one choice for all of your needs...thier >products. What software companies out there have the resources to >take MS on if MS truly decided they wanted to move into that area? Quicken is still doing pretty well after three years of MS essentially giving away Managing your Money, bundling it in every product installer, etc. I don't know why Intuit has survived, but I am kind of curious given the boneheadedness of the product. I mean everybodies first two programs are, hello world, then checkbook. Granted they have put more than a little polish on Checkbook 1.0, but they have also managed to drag it out over 9 major releases. The reasons I use Quicken are simple, I "know" it works, and the cost is incidental to the value as well as the risk of using another product that "might" cause me financial grief. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 15 18:40:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Corvus Systems Transporter Apple Rev C In-Reply-To: <000201c07e70$177ed980$6501a8c0@thinkpad> Message-ID: <515.416T2400T1005541optimus@canit.se> Henry Broekhuyse skrev: >Arthur Clark asked: >> Does anyone know what this card does? >This is a "Corvus Omninet Network" interface card. It was designed to be >cabled to a shareable "Corvus Omninet Network Server Hard Drive". Corvus >made similar interface cards for PCs (ISA and MCA) and LSI-11s. Didn't the Research Machines Nimbus also have an Omninet option? What does an omninet look like, what kind of wiring and topology does it use? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Age is a high price to pay for maturity. From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 15 19:09:10 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Garage cleaning Message-ID: I have a portable test set by Data Disk Inc. of Sunnyvale CA that is identified as an "8000 Series Exerciser". It comes in a molded case with handle and removable lid that is 14"W x 10.5"D, and 7"H. It is powered from a fixed 3-conductor line cord by 115 +/- 10% VAC at 47-400Hz. The unit dates to late 1974 according to the panel information drawing taped to the inside of the lid. Also, users are enjoined to "be kind to this tester its a one & only" according to a label stuck onto the inside of the lid. It could well be as it is entirely wire wrapped. The panel contains several rows of mini-toggle switches to select tracks from 1-512, a 16-bit data pattern, modes of testing, power, etc. Also a four wheel indicating rotary switch to set bits/sector. External connections are a 50-conductor ribbon cable that is terminated in an edge connector (50-pin), and a row of banana jacks to permit bringing out 8 functions for scope display. It is available for the price of shipping to anyone who wants it. I'm guessing that it weighs about 10 pounds. - don From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 15 19:45:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: small brag In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As of today, I am the proud owner of a Synertek VIM-1 SBC with 4k SRAM, 28 key keyboard and 7 segment LED display. It also includes the VIM Reference and Programming manuals, SY6500 Intruction Set Summary card, and a couple of extra 2114 SRAM's. All coutesy of a gentleman up near Chicago who originally bought it and decided to donate it to my collection! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 15 19:55:21 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Garage cleaning (fwd) Message-ID: John Tinker has just claimed this item. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:09:10 -0800 (PST) From: Don Maslin Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Garage cleaning I have a portable test set by Data Disk Inc. of Sunnyvale CA that is identified as an "8000 Series Exerciser". It comes in a molded case with handle and removable lid that is 14"W x 10.5"D, and 7"H. It is powered from a fixed 3-conductor line cord by 115 +/- 10% VAC at 47-400Hz. The unit dates to late 1974 according to the panel information drawing taped to the inside of the lid. Also, users are enjoined to "be kind to this tester its a one & only" according to a label stuck onto the inside of the lid. It could well be as it is entirely wire wrapped. The panel contains several rows of mini-toggle switches to select tracks from 1-512, a 16-bit data pattern, modes of testing, power, etc. Also a four wheel indicating rotary switch to set bits/sector. External connections are a 50-conductor ribbon cable that is terminated in an edge connector (50-pin), and a row of banana jacks to permit bringing out 8 functions for scope display. It is available for the price of shipping to anyone who wants it. I'm guessing that it weighs about 10 pounds. - don From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 15 20:09:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <008001c07f61$699c9a80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> So ... aren't there things that you want? You certainly can't blame MS, as a corporate entity, for doing what it does in order to get what it wants, can you? Why do you think you should make what MS wants YOUR problem? They haven't done that. You have. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > >That's what people who don't like MS products should do, IMHO. From what > >everybody who hates them indicates, there are plenty of options. Somebody > >ought to send Judge Jackson a copy of a transcript of this thread. Clearly, > >there is no monopoly! Apple produces a competitive GUI, right? OS/2 is > >better, it just costs a little more, right? LINUX is cheaper, right? > >Marginally anti-copetitive practices are common in the corporate world. > >Where's the problem? > > My problem with MS isnt' that it has been successful...it's > that they want you to have one choice for all of your needs...thier > products. > Isn't that what Mobil, or Miller Corp, or General Motors, or Wal-Mart want, too? > >What software companies out there have the resources to > take MS on if MS truly decided they wanted to move into that area? > MS is as close to a corporation with unlimited resources as any I can > think of. They've also become pretty good at dictating what the > hardware companies do as well due to the way they license their > software. Sure, there are alternatives, but none that can come even > close to actually competing. There have been very few times in > history where a single company had such an impenetrable stranglehold > on an industry. > That, in part, is because so many software vendors went into the marketplace with their own ideas, completely disregarding what the market demands. Microsoft became the truly monstrous company it is, not because they started out with the goal of shoving their products down your throat whether you wanted them or not, but because so many people wanted what they did produce. Microsoft's made a ton of dough by giving the public, not what they need, but what they want. It's unfortunate that the quality of OS and application software, generally, is so low, but MS is still pretty much the best that's out there. Notable exceptions exist, but for the mainstream, it makes sense for people to use Microsoft's products. Until there is a true competitor, which Apple isn't, and which IBM isn't, there's no sense in complaining. > > Anyway, my 2 cents. I normally don't get into the public MS > bashing. I've used thier products for years on numerous platforms. > I guess we can all thank IBM for the current mess due to the generous > agreements they signed with MS in the beginning of IBM-PC > development. That, in my opinion, is what provided MS with the > foothold they needed, as well as the funds. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From cube1 at home.com Mon Jan 15 20:26:33 2001 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Tape Drive Vacuum Sensor Group Purchase TU10 / DG 6021 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115201555.045a1df0@cirithi> As folks who follow this list may recall, I was asking about a month ago if anyone had any vacuum sensors for a TU10. Since that time, I have identified a source for purchase of these sensors (set for 10" H2O pressure). They are suitable for TU10's (where I found some of the exact part I found in there as replacements) and for the DG 6021. I would guess that they are in other drives of similar vintage. (a TU10 has 8 of them, a 6021 has 4 of them (plus a separate 20" H20 unit) ) If you have a TU10 or a DG 6021, and expect to keep it running for another 10 years, listen up: these will fail, eventually, depending on what their condition was when you got the drive, how often you use it, etc. On the TU10, the ones most likely to fail are at the bottom of each vacuum column, because they are in a pressure differential state most of the time. I can get the parts for $14.23 each in unit quantities, but the catch is that the minimum order is $250. I was thinking that I needed about 10 of them, for sure, so I'd like to find someone else who could use at least 7 or 8 of them. I also suspect that the price would come down a little for quantities over 24 -- but I have not yet checked quantity pricing. SO, what I would like to do is this. Anyone who is SERIOUSLY interested in purchasing some of these beasties, please reply to me (as well as or instead of the list), and I'll try to put an order together this month. Payment will probably be via your choice of personal check or PayPal (I have not yet set up my PayPal account, though). Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 15 19:38:34 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Dreamcast (was: Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <536.416T1700T1584925optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>> Linux I have no trouble with, but NONE of the PS2 games I have purchased >>> recently have worked at all on my 9595 PS/2. >> >>Yeah, I think there's some issue with MCA causing graphics glitches with >>Gran Turismo II. ;-P >Once I find a decent 3d video card I think it should work OK. There are in fact IBM systems with both MCA and PCI buses, so that shouldn't pose that much of a problem, mind you. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From at258 at osfn.org Mon Jan 15 21:25:19 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Garage cleaning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don, if no one selse is interested, we would bit. It sounds like it could be useful. On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > I have a portable test set by Data Disk Inc. of Sunnyvale CA that is > identified as an "8000 Series Exerciser". It comes in a molded case > with handle and removable lid that is 14"W x 10.5"D, and 7"H. It is > powered from a fixed 3-conductor line cord by 115 +/- 10% VAC at > 47-400Hz. The unit dates to late 1974 according to the panel > information drawing taped to the inside of the lid. Also, users are > enjoined to "be kind to this tester its a one & only" according > to a label stuck onto the inside of the lid. It could well be as it is > entirely wire wrapped. > > The panel contains several rows of mini-toggle switches to select > tracks from 1-512, a 16-bit data pattern, modes of testing, power, etc. > Also a four wheel indicating rotary switch to set bits/sector. > External connections are a 50-conductor ribbon cable that is terminated > in an edge connector (50-pin), and a row of banana jacks to permit > bringing out 8 functions for scope display. > > It is available for the price of shipping to anyone who wants it. > I'm guessing that it weighs about 10 pounds. > > - don > > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jtinker at coin.org Mon Jan 15 21:28:23 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <008001c07f61$699c9a80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A63BFD6.C0EBEA6B@coin.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > So ... aren't there things that you want? You certainly can't blame MS, as > a corporate entity, for doing what it does in order to get what it wants, > can you? Why do you think you should make what MS wants YOUR problem? They > haven't done that. You have. I just don't get why you are so into defending a company that engages in vicious, predatory and generally uncivil behavior. It is obvious that Microsoft has violated what many people consider norms of decent behavior, even as applied to corporations. That they have violated the spirit of the law seems fairly clear by now, but we're not sure what is going to be done about it. Why not let these criticisms air, and stand on their own merits? The best you seem to be able to answer is that other companies are as devious. I don't deny that, but I fail to understand why it is being offered as a justification. It is not a justification, although it might be an explaination. However I don't think folks on this list need explainations about it. People are pissed, not bewildered. I think we should expect companies to be decent, and should be outraged, to some degree, when they are not. I agree generally with the observations you have made about putting ones money where ones mouth is. I just don't understand your defense of what seems to me to be indefensible behavior. Are you opposed to making moral or ethical arguments, per se? When you suggest that nothing a corporation does to "get what it wants" can be blameworthy, you seem to take such a position. -- John Tinker From rdd at smart.net Mon Jan 15 22:06:24 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <008001c07f61$699c9a80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > So ... aren't there things that you want? You certainly can't blame MS, as > a corporate entity, for doing what it does in order to get what it wants, > can you? Why do you think you should make what MS wants YOUR problem? They > haven't done that. You have. Hmmm; I'm going to argue this from a different viewpoint than I usually do. While I think that Microsoft products are the worst thing to hit the U.S. market since those wretched little Japanese cars, and every bit, if not moreso, annoying, I really do have to give Bill Gates credit for exploiting the P.T. Barnum factor and gaining an enormous amount of wealth, even though I can't stand what he's done to foul-up computing. Actually, all he's really done has been to exploit a mentally unstable society with an excess of corrupt, greedy and simple-minded politicians in order to make a better life for himself and his family. What's wrong with that? Computers just happen to be the tool that worked for him. If he hadn't done it, who's to say that someone else wouldn't have done the same? If the average consumer had a properly functioning brain, Microsoft would be extinct like dinosaurs by now and people who are incapable of, or don't have the time or inclination for, learning to use UNIX, VMS, etc. might be using Apples. Of course, consider this: had it not been for Microsoft, Apple may have used legal means to bury X-Windows, and other non-Apple GUIs, 6-feet under, via the use of software patents. Microsoft fought Apple over GUIs (Perhaps Bill von Hagen can kindly shed more light on this, and give everyone a better idea of what happened than I can), and, did do something good for us all. In other words, the Apple is just as rotten as some of us have considered Microsoft to be. On the other hand, who knowsif history had been different, perhaps Apple and Microsoft would have gone away, Linux and other free UNICEs would never have come into existence, and most of us would now be using MP/M-IX with a GUI, many security features and long upper-case filenames, using 64-bit 300MHz CPUs descended from the Z80. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Jan 15 22:23:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <008001c07f61$699c9a80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A63BFD6.C0EBEA6B@coin.org> Message-ID: <000001c07f75$59c72b20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Please see comments embedded below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tinker" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 8:28 PM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > So ... aren't there things that you want? You certainly can't blame MS, as > > a corporate entity, for doing what it does in order to get what it wants, > > can you? Why do you think you should make what MS wants YOUR problem? They > > haven't done that. You have. > > I just don't get why you are so into defending a company that engages in > vicious, predatory and generally uncivil behavior. It is obvious that Microsoft > has violated what many people consider norms of decent behavior, even as applied > to corporations. That they have violated the spirit of the law seems fairly > clear by now, but we're not sure what is going to be done about it. > > Why not let these criticisms air, and stand on their own merits? The best you > seem to be able to answer is that other companies are as devious. I don't deny > that, but I fail to understand why it is being offered as a justification. It is > not a justification, although it might be an explaination. However I don't think > folks on this list need explainations about it. People are pissed, not > bewildered. I think we should expect companies to be decent, and should be > outraged, to some degree, when they are not. > It's because, not only are other companies as devious, in fact ALL other surviving companies are, in their way, as devious, but that's what they're SUPPOSED to be. > > I agree generally with the observations you have made about putting ones money > where ones mouth is. I just don't understand your defense of what seems to me to > be indefensible behavior. Are you opposed to making moral or ethical arguments, > per se? When you suggest that nothing a corporation does to "get what it wants" > can be blameworthy, you seem to take such a position. > I don't mind rational and balanced arguments based on facts and not folklore. In general, however, it's not up to the corporation to do anything an individual wouldn't, i.e. the corporation is no more bound to base its actions on altruistic motives than you and I. The decision-makers have a fiduciary responsibility to produce value for their owners. Most companies do that by providing goods or services. I've read a lot of "I don't like Microsoft ..." but I haven't seen any realistic positive constructs. The fact of the matter is that Microsoft is in a unique position in the market because they proceeded, initially, to do what no one else brought off. They produced an operating system AND a set of what most folks find to be a highly useful set of office automation and communication applications that people buy in great quantity. It's possible that some of their strategizing might have gone off the deep end a mite, but, unlike General Motors, Ford, or Firestone, they've killed no one and mad little effort to prevent people from knowing it. Nobody's been killed as a result of buying a software suite that cost a week's pay every month, crashed and caused their customer to die. Unlike the auto industry, Microsoft has actually improved things for most of its customers, has taken relatively little of their money, made computers and computing a household thing where it was only for the nerds a couple of decades ago, and if they endeaver to kill and eat their competitors, that's really what they're paid to do. > From donm at cts.com Mon Jan 15 22:48:22 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Garage cleaning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Don, if no one else is interested, we would bit. It sounds like it > could be useful. Sorry Merle, John Tinker beat you by a couple of hours. - don From rdd at smart.net Tue Jan 16 06:58:51 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something I forgot to add in my last posting. While I don't see anything wrong with someone doing some of the things Gates did with using Microsoft to make a fortune, I should have added that I think that some of what he's done has also been inexcuseable - I don't understand how a company the size of Microsoft, with all those employees, is unable to produce an operating system that actually works properly and isn't a nuisance to use. Also, with regards to his persistence in pursuing monopolistic tactics: with his fortune, why doesn't the man just give it up, sell Microsoft to someone else, in whole or in pieces, and just enjoy life? Why does he keep working, at Microsoft, still trying to totally dominate the market, doing work that's of no real benefit to society? It's not like he's working at purshuing some sort of intellectual pursuit, which would make more sense to keep working at. It appears to be just plain greed... or, ok, to be kind, perhaps the poor man's got an obsessive/compulsive disorder he can't shake. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Tue Jan 16 07:08:21 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:49:33 +0100 Beatrice Tobler wrote: > 1 Funky Mouse *FREE* > > This last thing I need help with. It looks to be about 20+ years old but > I could be wrong... It is bright red, almost perfectly round, has a steel > ball as the roller, 3 black switches, and says "5271" and then "DEPRAZ - > MOUSE" on the bottom. Depraz was the company that made mice for the Whitechapel workstation. They were also round, with three buttons. I'll have to check at home to see what the part number is. Acorn used a very similar mouse (same maker) on early ARM systems, I think. Neither of those companies chose the red version, though... > More importantly.... do you think I could use it on my PeeCEE? 8) Of course! All you have to do is build a quadrature-to-serial convertor box. As Tony would say, never waste time buying something you could build yourself. :-) -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 16 07:49:17 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D6B@TEGNTSERVER> > I don't know why Intuit has survived, but I am kind of curious given the > boneheadedness of the product. I mean everybodies first two programs are, > hello world, then checkbook. Granted they have put more than a little > polish on Checkbook 1.0, but they have also managed to drag it out over 9 > major releases. Being a bad seed, my first program printed out random vulgar phrases instead of "hello world". This was on a CDC-6500 running Dual-MACE at Purdue University. My next two programs were a program to compute the dynamic compliance of a tonearm, and another to compute, based on the native resonant frequency of a driver (speaker), and the proposed dimensions of a room to be constructed, the frequencies where the bass would resonate in the room, and the distribution of the nodes (antinodes?). Over a two- week period, I coded these programs in CDC-6000 Series BASIC, CDC-6000 Series Fortran, and our local port of Niklaus Wirth's Pascal Compiler. Eventually, I bought Electric Checkbook for the Macintosh, a great program I rarely used due to extra work of maintaining my check register. The moral of this tale: Beware of Geeks bearing Revisionist History. ;-) -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 16 07:51:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Jan 15, 1 11:06:24 pm" Message-ID: <200101161351.FAA11436@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > On the other hand, who knowsif history had been different, perhaps > Apple and Microsoft would have gone away, Linux and other free UNICEs > would never have come into existence, and most of us would now be > using MP/M-IX with a GUI, many security features and long upper-case > filenames, using 64-bit 300MHz CPUs descended from the Z80. Oh, come on. Any alternative future should have computers with CPUs descended from the 6502. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ----- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 16 08:17:53 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D6B@TEGNTSERVER> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 16, 1 08:49:17 am" Message-ID: <200101161417.GAA11040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I don't know why Intuit has survived, but I am kind of curious given the > > boneheadedness of the product. I mean everybodies first two programs are, > > hello world, then checkbook. Granted they have put more than a little > > polish on Checkbook 1.0, but they have also managed to drag it out over 9 > > major releases. > > Being a bad seed, my first program printed out random vulgar phrases > instead of "hello world". This was on a CDC-6500 running Dual-MACE at > Purdue University. And all my hello world programs these days say, "Mortimer, we're back!" Of course, this was all after 1987. I think my first program on the Tomy Tutor was a 2+2 program. My first program on the C64 was a recipe box. My problem is I *don't* balance my checkbook. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I need to clean my toilet brush." -------- From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jan 16 10:01:36 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) References: Message-ID: <3A647060.4E3F31B8@ecubics.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > I don't > understand how a company the size of Microsoft, with all those > employees, is unable to produce an operating system that actually > works properly and isn't a nuisance to use. If you're doing money selling updates and not the product. Got a clue ;-) cheers From jtinker at coin.org Tue Jan 16 08:55:22 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It's because, not only are other companies as devious, in fact ALL other > surviving companies are, in their way, as devious, but that's what they're > SUPPOSED to be. No, companies are limited liability constructs of the state. They fall under the same social contract that the state does, even more so. Yes, we can, and should, insist that corporations be ethical. The nature of a corporation's "rights" is quite different than the nature of an individual's rights. The corporation exists at the pleasure of the state. Corporations are SUPPOSED to be what the state intends them to be. The same is not true of individuals. The state has the power to regulate the ethical behavior of corporations, even to the extent of demanding that the corporation be altruistic. But altruism is not the issue with Microsoft. Rather the issue is unethical business practice. Beyond that, you have not answered my question as to why you are defending unethical behavior. Why not let those who would promote ethical behavior take the lead, even if you don't think they have much chance at success? Why try to shoot them down? What is to be gained by it? -- John Tinker From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jan 16 09:37:52 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: IBM System/36 for free! Message-ID: All, The e-address for this system, rmays@satx.rr.com, sounds a lot like it's in my home town, San Antonio. If that's true and you need help moving, shipping (eek), putting in a UHaul and meeting you somewhere in central Texas, etc., email me and I'll pitch in. I'm not interested in the system for myself. - Mark From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 15 20:40:18 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <002101c07f32$7ace32c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010116173805.KWMA7869.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I made the subject "Nuke Redmond!" to be deliberatly inflamatory with enough humor not to take completely seriously. Even though I'd like it not to be true, I agree that there is no monopoly. Microsoft is guilty only of TRYING to create one. The guilt is real, but I'm not sure it is prosecutable as such. Microsoft is guilty of being a mafia which is even worse, and it is for that that they should be prosecuted - not for this contrived 'crime'. I think bundling the browser in the way they did is innovative and worthy of praise not condemnation. Thier motives might be flawed, but the results are not. This is not to say that the ends justify the means. I don't know why Microsoft's real crimes weren't the basis for this suit. There are plenty to chose from but the government chose this thin premise. It is strange the way things have worked out. I've been waiting for years for the real crimes to be prosecuted and it has not happened. Microsoft deserves what this judge offered as a solution, but not for the reasons cited. I have friends that have been directly destroyed by illegal actions taken by Microsoft. I would like them vindicated but not this way. I hate to say it, but this case has no basis in fact. The evidence used to support it are valid and worthy of scrutiny and reprepresent real crimes, but the original charge is faulty and should never been brought before a court. I think if the justice system is valid, Microsoft will be vindicated and that is a crime against truth. Microsoft is, metaphoricly and in some cases actually guilty of wholesale fraud, the rape of minds, and murder. The justice department brings suite for stealing some kid's lunch money. Why did they select a pickaune crime to prosecute when there are so many real crimes to name? I'm the first person to suggest that Microsoft be brought to justice, but not on trumped up charges. There are too many real crimes ignored to call this justice even if Microsoft is convicted. As I've said before, this is the first time Microsoft products have to genuinely compete on their merits and not on the basis of anti-competitive structures and practices. I agree that ms should be challenged and limited by the courts, but these limits and challenges were produced by a flawed and false case brought by the justice department. The end result to date has been positive which should indicate to all that Microsoft has been, to a significant degree, brought to heel. At least temporarily. As an American and a Libertarian, I feel strongly that Microsoft should be punished, but not at the expense of my rights which is what is happening now. No matter how guilty, false charges are false and affect all of us. That is why I started this thread. To suggest folks to think hard. They have. Last year it spurred thought, and this year, when things were slow, it did so again. I beg your pardon if you are one of those folks annoyed by the flood of messages, but I can't but praise the content of the thread. Not only does this thread contribute in a real way to the sharing of information and opinion, but those opinions offered contribute to real thought on the part the whole group. Not that I'm qualified to praise, but I'd like to thank all of you for your thoughtful and even sometimes thoughtless opinons. It, (the thread Nuke Redmond!) has spawned many excellent discussions and I think that sharing brings us all together in thought and for that this has been an excellent exercise for all of us. My very best to you all, Jeff - ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 16 11:02:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, John Tinker wrote: > Beyond that, you have not answered my question as to why you are > defending unethical behavior. Why not let those who would promote > ethical behavior take the lead, even if you don't think they have much > chance at success? Why try to shoot them down? What is to be gained by > it? John, I've learned that arguing with Richard is like arguing with a wall. But it's not so much that the wall is incapable of hearing what you have to say, but that you feel completely stupid for trying to argue with one. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Tue Jan 16 12:41:01 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c07feb$e0ac6350$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Anybody know if our collected resources could in any way be applied to helping correct Microsoft? IE can we get a motivation to agree rather than argue? John A. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 16 06:08:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <006c01c07f27$111ae040$319eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <650.416T250T7883931optimus@canit.se> Wayne M. Smith skrev: >> My solution is maintaining a Microsoft-free zone at >home and >> minimizing use of Microsoft at work. This is not only >because I dislike >> their products (excepting Excel, which has merit IMO) >On that note, I would put in a good word for Flight >Simulator as well. That's Mirrorsoft, not Microsoft. At least if we are to stay on topic. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r / das wu?te ich so gut / was so ein junger Boy / aus lauter Liebe tut /?ich w?rde in die Schwulenscene gehn /?und sexy Boys den Kopf verdrehn / ich h?tt genug Verkehr / wenn ich ein Junge w?r. Wenn ich ein Junge w?r - Nina Hagen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 16 12:44:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jan 16, 1 01:08:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1016 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010116/0a7bfb9a/attachment.ksh From jtinker at coin.org Tue Jan 16 13:05:35 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: first programs References: <200101161417.GAA11040@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A649B7E.5B429052@coin.org> > And all my hello world programs these days say, "Mortimer, we're back!" Of > course, this was all after 1987. > > I think my first program on the Tomy Tutor was a 2+2 program. My first > program on the C64 was a recipe box. > -- Cameron Kaiser My first memorable (to me) program on the C-64 was "scribble". It randomly changed accellerations as it drew a line around the screen, with a tendency to drift back toward the center. It really did look like a scribble. I was quite proud of it. My friends didn't understand. -- John Tinker From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Jan 16 12:59:04 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <008001c07f61$699c9a80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A6453A8.14376.32CF1CA@localhost> > So ... aren't there things that you want? You certainly can't blame > MS, as a corporate entity, for doing what it does in order to get what > it wants, can you? Why do you think you should make what MS wants > YOUR problem? They haven't done that. You have. The Mafia could make the same argument, unless as it seems, you consider "corporate entities" above the law and even common morality. Ever hear of the "love canal" or the hundreds of other incidents attesting to the rapaciousness of greedy corporations and their dedication to the bottom line regardless of the consequences to societies well-being. > Somebod ought to send Judge Jackson a copy of a transcript of this thread. > Clearly, there is no monopoly! Apple produces a competitive GUI > right? OS/2 is better, it just costs a little more, right? LINUX is > cheaper, right? Marginally anti-competitive practices are common > in the corporate world. Where's the problem? Clearly that Judge Jackson and most people aren't as enamored and in awe of the corporate world as you are. Spare me from "Suits" logic. > > > > My problem with MS isnt' that it has been successful...it's > > that they want you to have one choice for all of your needs...thier > > products. > > > Isn't that what Mobil, or Miller Corp, or General Motors, or Wal-Mart > want, too? Of course, if they can get away with it. The history of cartels shows why governments all over the world passed laws against them as impacting on the common good of society. > >What software companies out there have the resources to > > take MS on if MS truly decided they wanted to move into that area? > > MS is as close to a corporation with unlimited resources as any I can > > think of. They've also become pretty good at dictating what the > > hardware companies do as well due to the way they license their > > software. Sure, there are alternatives, but none that can come even > > close to actually competing. There have been very few times in > > history where a single company had such an impenetrable stranglehold > > on an industry. > That, in part, is because so many software vendors > went into the marketplace with their own ideas, completely > disregarding what the market demands. Microsoft became the truly > monstrous company it is, not because they started out with the goal of > shoving their products down your throat whether you wanted them or > not, but because so many people wanted what they did produce. > Microsoft's made a ton of dough by giving the public, not what they > need, but what they want. > Crap ! Judge Jackson didn't make his ruling on the basis that M- S**t was just a better vendor. The testimony about unethical conduct was overwhelming. > It's unfortunate that the quality of OS and application software, > generally, is so low, but MS is still pretty much the best that's out > there. Notable exceptions exist, but for the mainstream, it makes > sense for people to use Microsoft's products. Until there is a true > competitor, which Apple isn't, and which IBM isn't, there's no sense > in complaining. Hasn't most of the commentary in this thread by knowledgeable computer people been exactly that it isn't "the best out there" No, don't complain, let M-s**t run roughshod over the computer industry and when King Billy puts the squeeze on the apologists can say "why didn't you say something before ". > > Anyway, my 2 cents. I normally don't get into the > > public MS bashing. I've used thier products for years on numerous platforms. > > I guess we can all thank IBM for the current mess due to > > the generous agreements they signed with MS in the > > beginning of IBM-PC development. > > That, in my opinion, is what provided MS with > >the foothold they needed, as well as the funds. > > Jeff -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > End of thread for myself, tried to ignore it, but I just couldn't take the BS any more. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 13:07:02 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <650.416T250T7883931optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010116191344.MUJV7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> This may be a trivial point, but I love Flight Simulator too. Microsoft didn't write it. Sublogic did and was aquired by Microsoft. I used to play FS II on my Atari 8-bit years ago. I've got to credit MS for improving it and not ruining it, but it is interesting that in the Sublogic days, FS II ran on the C:64, Atari 8-bit, Atari ST, Amiga, IBM PC, you get the picture.. Now it only runs on one platform. It is not trivial to note that every single time I see something impressive from MS, furthur research shows that they were not involved in it's creation. They bought it complete - like the .ASF format for instance, or the terminal server portion of thier multiuser operating system products. That they got from Citrix - under duress I might add. Regards, Jeff In <650.416T250T7883931optimus@canit.se>, on 01/16/01 at 02:07 PM, "Iggy Drougge" said: >>On that note, I would put in a good word for Flight >>Simulator as well. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 16 13:51:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:12 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) References: Message-ID: <001301c07ff5$aec5fd60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> What, sir, have you done today, that's of benefit to society? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 5:58 AM Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) > > Something I forgot to add in my last posting. While I don't see > anything wrong with someone doing some of the things Gates did with > using Microsoft to make a fortune, I should have added that I think > that some of what he's done has also been inexcuseable - I don't > understand how a company the size of Microsoft, with all those > employees, is unable to produce an operating system that actually > works properly and isn't a nuisance to use. Also, with regards to his > persistence in pursuing monopolistic tactics: with his fortune, why > doesn't the man just give it up, sell Microsoft to someone else, in > whole or in pieces, and just enjoy life? Why does he keep working, at > Microsoft, still trying to totally dominate the market, doing work > that's of no real benefit to society? It's not like he's working at > purshuing some sort of intellectual pursuit, which would make more > sense to keep working at. It appears to be just plain greed... or, > ok, to be kind, perhaps the poor man's got an obsessive/compulsive > disorder he can't shake. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 16 13:56:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Message-ID: <002301c07ff6$6d9a8760$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Starting Saturday, we're all going to get a close up and personal view of an alternative to your proposed industry-government relationship. What you propose is a socialist model. A fascist model is one, as in Japan, where industry enjoys a close relationship with government. Everybody with a 7-figure income and 10^6 kilobucks' net worth will come to appreciate that. The rest of us can go suck hind teat. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tinker" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 7:55 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > It's because, not only are other companies as devious, in fact ALL > other > > surviving companies are, in their way, as devious, but that's what > they're > > SUPPOSED to be. > > No, companies are limited liability constructs of the state. They fall > under the same social contract that the state does, even more so. Yes, > we can, and should, insist that corporations be ethical. The nature of > a corporation's "rights" is quite different than the nature of an > individual's rights. The corporation exists at the pleasure of the > state. Corporations are SUPPOSED to be what the state intends them to > be. The same is not true of individuals. The state has the power to > regulate the ethical behavior of corporations, even to the extent of > demanding that the corporation be altruistic. But altruism is not the > issue with Microsoft. Rather the issue is unethical business practice. > > Beyond that, you have not answered my question as to why you are > defending unethical behavior. Why not let those who would promote > ethical behavior take the lead, even if you don't think they have much > chance at success? Why try to shoot them down? What is to be gained by > it? > > -- John Tinker > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 16 13:59:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: Message-ID: <003d01c07ff6$e8777880$1192fea9@idcomm.com> YESSSS!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:02 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, John Tinker wrote: > > > Beyond that, you have not answered my question as to why you are > > defending unethical behavior. Why not let those who would promote > > ethical behavior take the lead, even if you don't think they have much > > chance at success? Why try to shoot them down? What is to be gained by > > it? > > John, I've learned that arguing with Richard is like arguing with a wall. > But it's not so much that the wall is incapable of hearing what you have > to say, but that you feel completely stupid for trying to argue with one. > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 13:50:48 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <3A649B7E.5B429052@coin.org> Message-ID: <20010116200512.OOTA7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> My first useful program was a graphical alarm clock. I'm a dropout and so missed math education beyond arithmetic. This is why I do all my agebraic problems linearly as you do in programing. I still don't understand how and why algebra is done the way it is in schools. Boolean algebra makes so much more sense to me. Anyway, I was trying to plot the face of a circular clock. First I tried using PI as the base for the plotting and my clock's face came out wierd and incomplete. After messing with the program for some hours I realized that OF COURSE a circle derived from pi was going to be incomplete because PI is irrational. No matter how many digits after the dicimal you use, you will never get a complete circle, just a progressively less incomplete one. Duh. Back to the drawing board. I started hitting the trig functions looking for an answer and hit on Sine/cosine as the way to do it. Educating yourself is hard and you often have to backtrack like that. The alarm clock worked perfectly within the accuracy limits of my Atari 8-bit's real-time clock. Because of video refresh 'stealing' jiffies, it would lose a few seconds per day. Prior to this, I'd written the standard "hello world" stuff, but this was the first really useful program I'd written. Another was a program which drove an optical digitizer I built from a fiber-optic cable, an infrared fiber optic detector (variable potentiomiter) and some tape. It plugged into the joystick port and used the Vpot analog to digital converter the machine uses to 'read' paddle-type game controllers. The tape-wrapped end of the fiber optic cable fit nicely into one of the pen bays on an Atari 1020 color plotter. Run a photo into the plotter and start the program. After a few minutes, the photo is on screen in 16 shades of grey. Saving the image was as simple as an incremeted "peek" and store of each location in screen memory. I was very proud of it at the age of 14. I still have the program and some 'girly' pictures I digitized with it, but the scanner hardware is long lost. Sigh. My adolescent friends TOTALLY understood. ;-), Regards, Jeff In <3A649B7E.5B429052@coin.org>, on 01/16/01 at 02:50 PM, John Tinker said: >My first memorable (to me) program on the C-64 was "scribble". It >randomly changed accellerations as it drew a line around the screen, with >a tendency to drift back toward the center. It really did look like a >scribble. I was quite proud of it. My friends didn't understand. >-- John Tinker -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 14:09:16 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <002301c07ff6$6d9a8760$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010116200935.OSIF7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I think we are closer to the facist model than most would like to admit. Regards, Jeff In <002301c07ff6$6d9a8760$1192fea9@idcomm.com>, on 01/16/01 at 03:09 PM, "Richard Erlacher" said: > A fascist model is one, as in Japan, >where industry enjoys a close relationship with government. Everybody >with a 7-figure income and 10^6 kilobucks' net worth will come to >appreciate that. The rest of us can go suck hind teat. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 16 14:21:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! References: <3A6453A8.14376.32CF1CA@localhost> Message-ID: <004901c07ff9$e4e87e00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, maybe the judge's SUV's tires will fail him. I don't mind that there are people who dislike what one company or another produces. I object, however, when one company is made a scapegoat for the failings of the entire business community. example: Firestone has always produced the worst tires in the US. Some were OK, but the lowest quality always came from Firestone. Ford has always, at least since the '60's, when I bought my last new FORD, used the cheapest of these for their new cars. Now, their pigeons are coming home to roost. You know what that does to the statue. Now, what's this about the Mafia? That's a social organization, isn't it? True, some of their members have been suspected of involvement in less-than-honorable activities, but, on the whole, they're just a bunch of boys out to have a little fun. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Nuke Redmond! > > > > So ... aren't there things that you want? You certainly can't blame > > MS, as a corporate entity, for doing what it does in order to get what > > it wants, can you? Why do you think you should make what MS wants > > YOUR problem? They haven't done that. You have. > > The Mafia could make the same argument, unless as it seems, > you consider "corporate entities" above the law and even common > morality. Ever hear of the "love canal" or the hundreds of other > incidents attesting to the rapaciousness of greedy corporations and > their dedication to the bottom line regardless of the consequences > to societies well-being. > > > Somebod ought to send Judge Jackson a copy of a transcript of this thread. > > Clearly, there is no monopoly! Apple produces a competitive GUI > > right? OS/2 is better, it just costs a little more, right? LINUX is > > cheaper, right? Marginally anti-competitive practices are common > > in the corporate world. Where's the problem? > > Clearly that Judge Jackson and most people aren't as enamored > and in awe of the corporate world as you are. Spare me from > "Suits" logic. > > > > > > My problem with MS isnt' that it has been successful...it's > > > that they want you to have one choice for all of your needs...thier > > > products. > > > > > Isn't that what Mobil, or Miller Corp, or General Motors, or Wal-Mart > > want, too? > > Of course, if they can get away with it. The history of cartels > shows why governments all over the world passed laws against > them as impacting on the common good of society. > > > >What software companies out there have the resources to > > > take MS on if MS truly decided they wanted to move into that area? > > > MS is as close to a corporation with unlimited resources as any I can > > > think of. They've also become pretty good at dictating what the > > > hardware companies do as well due to the way they license > their > > > software. Sure, there are alternatives, but none that can come even > > > close to actually competing. There have been very few times in > > > history where a single company had such an impenetrable stranglehold > > > on an industry. > > > That, in part, is because so many software vendors > > went into the marketplace with their own ideas, completely > > disregarding what the market demands. Microsoft became the truly > > monstrous company it is, not because they started out with the goal of > > shoving their products down your throat whether you wanted them or > > not, but because so many people wanted what they did produce. > > Microsoft's made a ton of dough by giving the public, not what they > > need, but what they want. > > > Crap ! Judge Jackson didn't make his ruling on the basis that M- > S**t was just a better vendor. The testimony about unethical > conduct was overwhelming. > > > It's unfortunate that the quality of OS and application software, > > generally, is so low, but MS is still pretty much the best that's out > > there. Notable exceptions exist, but for the mainstream, it makes > > sense for people to use Microsoft's products. Until there is a true > > competitor, which Apple isn't, and which IBM isn't, there's no sense > > in complaining. > > Hasn't most of the commentary in this thread by knowledgeable > computer people been exactly that it isn't "the best out there" No, > don't complain, let M-s**t run roughshod over the computer industry > and when King Billy puts the squeeze on the apologists can say > "why didn't you say something before ". > > > > Anyway, my 2 cents. I normally don't get into the > > > public MS bashing. I've used thier products for years on numerous platforms. > > > I guess we can all thank IBM for the current mess due to > > > the generous agreements they signed with MS in the > > > beginning of IBM-PC development. > > > That, in my opinion, is what provided MS with > > >the foothold they needed, as well as the funds. > > > > Jeff -- > > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game > Systems: > > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > End of thread for myself, tried to ignore it, but I just couldn't take > the BS any more. > > larry > > > > > > > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > > From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 15 19:35:24 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <200101151936.f0FJa3t13150@bg-tc-ppp790.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20010116202659.PGAV7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> There are a couple of free TCP/IP stacks for OS/2, but I'm not sure if they provide the protocol transport and hardware interfaces. If you have a copy of any other OS/2 that includes networking by default (ie Warp connect, warp 4 etcetera), you can install MPTS and all other products moraly if not legaly. I don't know the legal issues well enough and don't really care. To me, if it is moral then it is fine whatever licensing might say. I wouldn't deploy a system I had doubts about, but in my home I will use what I like as I see fit. I've grafted HPFS386 onto my warp machine because I own it via warp server. I don't want to run the server product because it doesn't perform as a desktop operating system as well as the desktop version does. Since I'm not running the server os, I feel justified in grafting this excellent filesystem upgrade onto my copy of EcomStation. I'm sure IBM wouldn't care, and no court in the world would convict me for it though MS would probably like to harm me for doing so. Experimentaly, I've grafted TCP/IP and PPP onto OS/2 version 2.11 from my warp connect Bonus Pack cd. It works well, but is probably not 'legal' in the strict sense of the word......even though I own both. Another option might be TCP/IP from the Bonus Pack and the Novell Netware client for OS/2 which, if MPTS is not installed will provide it's own transport. MPTS has been called several things but stands for "Multi-Protocol Transport Services" and provides the basis of OS/2 networking. What people see as being OS/2 is actually a 'bundle' of separate products which were once sold separately. There is the OS/2 operating system, the workplace shell, the MPTS product, the TCP/IP product, and the multimedia product to name a few. This modular approach is one thing that makes OS/2 so scaleable. Like Linux and BSD and unlike any Windos product, you don't NEED the GUI to have a useful machine. Without the GUI, a 4mb 386sx with a small hard drive can be made to perform useful work with good performance. There are also several alternate GUI's provided that are not as processor intensive as the Workplace Shell/Presentation Manager product. With OS/2 2.0, 2.1, and 2.11, there was even an alternate GUI that gave OS/2 a Windows 3.x look and feel. Just like changing the Windows 9x gui to Progman.exe by editing System.ini will give 9x a 3.x look and feel. Under 9x, you can also "Start, Run, Progman". I've found this facility in 9x to be useful in helping customers bridge thier 3x experience to 9x. The worst of both worlds. Regards, Jeff In <200101151936.f0FJa3t13150@bg-tc-ppp790.monmouth.com>, on 01/15/01 at 08:35 PM, Bill Pechter said: >Yup... It doesn't detect nics because it doesn't include the MPTN stuff >and LAN drivers. >How do you get warp (not connect) to ethernet without violating either >IBM's MPTN (or is it MPTS) licenses. >I'd love to find a "legal" way without Warp Connect, TCP/IP or Netware >for OS/2 which have the necessary NDIS ethernet hooks... >Bill >(who owns 2 copies of Warp, 1 of Warp4) -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 14:31:50 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Unixlike, multitasking 6502 (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101112045.MAA10918@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010116204333.PQKZ7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> There are quite a number of multitasking 6502 machines out there. Homebrews and C64s are represented. The 'distribution' is called OS/A65. There was an early attempt for the Atari 8-bit called Mtos back in the mid-80's. You could assign individual tasks a defined number of 'time slices'. It was pretty neat but wasn't 'unixy'. You might find what Andre has done with OS/A65 as a good starting point as the source code is freely available. Can you make a 6502-based machine 'do' virtual memory? If you can, maybe we can port NetBSD to the Atari 8-bit. It might take a year to boot but it would be a fun project. The way the Atari handles disk I/O makes me think it is possible. Something like the Spartados X code substitution for the standard SIO calls I think. Spartados X is a fantastic peice of work. I've not seen anything that comes close to it (while maintaining compatability with existing software that is). Regards, Jeff In <200101112045.MAA10918@stockholm.ptloma.edu>, on 01/16/01 at 03:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser said: >I run AIX and NetBSD myself! :-) And, one of these days when I get my >6502-on-6502 virtual CPU implementation done, my C64 will run my own >Unixy flavour too (just to make this on-topic somewhat). -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Jan 16 15:12:35 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: DEC TC11 TU56 tape controller Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010116151235.00878c60@ubanproductions.com> Hello, I have been looking for a DEC TC11 tape controller to go with my PDP11/45 and TU56 tape drives for some time now. I just discovered this mailing list, so now I am trying here. Is there any chance that anyone has a TC11 for sale or trade? Also, I am looking for a pair of DEC H960 (72") rack sides, preferably from someone in the Chicago area. Thanks in advance (there is always a hope:-) --tom From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 16 15:15:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Unixlike, multitasking 6502 (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <20010116204333.PQKZ7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at "Jan 16, 1 03:31:50 pm" Message-ID: <200101162115.NAA11712@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > There are quite a number of multitasking 6502 machines out there. > Homebrews and C64s are represented. Yep, I've played with LUnix and OS/A65. Both fun but not really Unix. LUnix NG does have one cool feature; it can do PPP out of the box on a stock C64. > Can you make a 6502-based machine 'do' virtual memory? Not natively, which was why I wrote: > at 03:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser said: > > >I run AIX and NetBSD myself! :-) And, one of these days when I get my > >6502-on-6502 virtual CPU implementation done, my C64 will run my own > >Unixy flavour too (just to make this on-topic somewhat). ... a virtual CPU implementation. Actually, what it would do is distill instructions down to their absolute, immediate or implied addressing counterparts (instead of zp-indexed, absolute indexed, indirect, etc.), and then munge the address operands to point to the right memory block. It would move stepwise through code like that, with things like branches and stack manipulations being emulated operations. There is no good way, short of one fancy piece of MMU logic, to do VM on the 6502 currently. So, with the advent of fast CPUs for the C64 like the SCPU, why not do it in software? :-) It would probably not run badly even on a stock system. Ach, du lieber -- this thread is back on topic! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Schizophrenia beats being lonely. ------------------------------------------ From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Jan 16 15:14:47 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! OT In-Reply-To: <002301c07ff6$6d9a8760$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Starting Saturday, we're all going to get a close up and personal view of an > alternative to your proposed industry-government relationship. What you > propose is a socialist model. A fascist model is one, as in Japan, where > industry enjoys a close relationship with government. My B.S. is in political science. My hat is off to you, few people use the term fascist in its true, original sense. Read "Roots of Totalitarianism" by J. Lucien Radel for a good description. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Jan 16 16:05:17 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Let's get off Nuke Redmond In-Reply-To: from Paul Thompson at "Jan 16, 2001 03:14:47 pm" Message-ID: <200101162205.f0GM5HX16167@bg-tc-ppp675.monmouth.com> > > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Starting Saturday, we're all going to get a close up and personal view of an > > alternative to your proposed industry-government relationship. What you > > propose is a socialist model. A fascist model is one, as in Japan, where > > industry enjoys a close relationship with government. > > My B.S. is in political science. My hat is off to you, few people use the > term fascist in its true, original sense. > > Read "Roots of Totalitarianism" by J. Lucien Radel for a good description. Geez... another one. My BA is in History with a second major in Political Science. How the hell did I end up doing sysadmin 8-) I'll have to check the print reference. As far as what'll happen after Saturday... I propose legislative gridlock for at least two years... which is why the US elects (IMHO) divided governments in an attempt to control left and right swings of govenment without a public consensus. As much as I hate Microsoft -- could we at least change the subject line on these messages. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 16 16:33:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <20010116200512.OOTA7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <20010116200512.OOTA7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: >My first useful program was a graphical alarm clock. I'm a dropout and so The first program I did after I got my Timex-Sinclair 1000 in '82 was the same thing. I don't recall any longer where I got the basic program, but it didn't have a second hand so I spent a while keying it in and then 3-4 more hours trying to add the second hand to it. Unfortunately, I inadvertently wiggled the machine before I was finished and lost it all. My first program that I wrote on any machine was an attempt at solving an Algebra problem that the text books said was unsolvable. This was done on a TRS-80 Model III. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 16 16:36:56 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Let's get off Nuke Redmond In-Reply-To: <200101162205.f0GM5HX16167@bg-tc-ppp675.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Jan 16, 1 05:05:17 pm" Message-ID: <200101162236.OAA09560@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > My B.S. is in political science. > Geez... another one. My BA is in History with a second major in > Political Science. How the hell did I end up doing sysadmin 8-) And I'm not the only linguist who ended up doing programming work. Larry Wall is one too :-) Oddly enough, he's also Nazarene. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Hidden DOS secret: add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS. ------------------------ From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 16:41:54 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Unixlike, multitasking 6502 (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101162115.NAA11712@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010116224727.TOWJ7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Your knowlege of this is so far beyond mine I can barely follow. Even that is too complimentary to describe the gap, but I'd rather not discourage you by measuring the gap. In this I follow. I was suggesting a software approach (virtual mmu), but the Atari XE has a fairly capable mmu in that it allows multiple processors to access memory separately without the intervention of the cpu. I think a combination of custom software and this hardware would perform better than a solely software approach would. I could well be wrong, but with my limited knowlege it is hard for me to find a fault in the argument. LUnix is a new word for me. Any more info? I could search for it, but you seem to know your stuff and that is a rare thing I'm not likely to find in a blind search. Regards, Jeff In <200101162115.NAA11712@stockholm.ptloma.edu>, on 01/16/01 at 05:41 PM, Cameron Kaiser said: >> There are quite a number of multitasking 6502 machines out there. >> Homebrews and C64s are represented. >Yep, I've played with LUnix and OS/A65. Both fun but not really Unix. >LUnix NG does have one cool feature; it can do PPP out of the box on a >stock C64. >> Can you make a 6502-based machine 'do' virtual memory? >Not natively, which was why I wrote: >> at 03:31 PM, Cameron Kaiser said: >> >> >I run AIX and NetBSD myself! :-) And, one of these days when I get my >> >6502-on-6502 virtual CPU implementation done, my C64 will run my own >> >Unixy flavour too (just to make this on-topic somewhat). >... a virtual CPU implementation. Actually, what it would do is distill >instructions down to their absolute, immediate or implied addressing >counterparts (instead of zp-indexed, absolute indexed, indirect, etc.), >and then munge the address operands to point to the right memory block. >It would move stepwise through code like that, with things like branches >and stack manipulations being emulated operations. There is no good way, >short of one fancy piece of MMU logic, to do VM on the 6502 currently. >So, with the advent of fast CPUs for the C64 like the SCPU, why not do it >in software? :-) It would probably not run badly even on a stock system. >Ach, du lieber -- this thread is back on topic! -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 16 15:38:55 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Need help with rescue in Tampa Message-ID: Is there anyone in the Tampa area that's interested in helping out with a computer rescue? Please reply privately . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elvey at hal.com Tue Jan 16 16:49:51 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200101162249.f0GMnqB00123@civic.hal.com> Hi My first program was inplementing a life program on my first computer, a Poly88. It was all entered in machine code from hand assembled code. I looked at the different issue of how the edges of the screen were dealt with. You know; fall of the table, wrap straight, wrap helical, reflected and so forth. Dwight From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Jan 16 17:02:55 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Let's get off Nuke Redmond In-Reply-To: <200101162236.OAA09560@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 16, 2001 02:36:56 PM Message-ID: <200101162302.QAA19633@calico.litterbox.com> > > > > My B.S. is in political science. > > > Geez... another one. My BA is in History with a second major in > > Political Science. How the hell did I end up doing sysadmin 8-) > > And I'm not the only linguist who ended up doing programming work. Larry > Wall is one too :-) Oddly enough, he's also Nazarene. > *laugh* Master of Arts in Communications Development (English) here. System/network admin by trade. They tell me I write good documentation though, so it hasn't been entirely a waste... -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 16 17:13:07 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jan 16, 1 05:33:03 pm" Message-ID: <200101162313.PAA09682@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The first program I did after I got my Timex-Sinclair 1000 in > '82 was the same thing. I don't recall any longer where I got the > basic program, but it didn't have a second hand so I spent a while > keying it in and then 3-4 more hours trying to add the second hand to > it. Unfortunately, I inadvertently wiggled the machine before I was > finished and lost it all. I'm sorry, I died laughing at this point from sympathy, since a good thwack to my 1000's 1016 RAM pack has historically been the quickest way to crash the machine. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What you don't mean, can't hurt you. -- Firesign Theater ------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 17:11:01 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: OT! My wedding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010116233039.UZHY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Please feel free to ignore this message. I'm not sure anyone but me cares, but I would like to 'see' some of you and assume some of you might be curious enough to 'see' me. You people fascinate me and it seems natural to assume the reverse. In that sense, I think this message is on-topic. We are a community of sorts after all, and that community has given me a great deal. If you would like to see me and my family you are welcome. I've got my wedding 'Mpeged' thanks to the efforts of a good friend and if you would like to view it, you may by anonymous ftp. FTP to 24.15.74.214 and set for binary. Get wwedding.mpg. It is not your standard, boring ceremony and is worth the time. Fair warning: I'm limited by my provider to 16kpbs for outgoing traffic and the video is 150mb or so. You're login is "anonymous" and no password is required or requested. Your's truely, The Worley family -- ----------------------------------------------------------- The Worley family: 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-274-5781 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Jan 16 17:35:25 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Let's get off Nuke Redmond In-Reply-To: <200101162302.QAA19633@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <20010116233536.VDFD7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> One way of looking at things is that we have all 'got off' on "Nuke Redmond"..... Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 16 17:49:45 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Unixlike, multitasking 6502 (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <20010116224727.TOWJ7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at "Jan 16, 1 05:41:54 pm" Message-ID: <200101162349.PAA03754@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Your knowlege of this is so far beyond mine I can barely follow. Even > that is too complimentary to describe the gap, but I'd rather not > discourage you by measuring the gap. In this I follow. Oh, I doubt it. I just talk big. ;-) > I was suggesting a software approach (virtual mmu), but the Atari XE has a > fairly capable mmu in that it allows multiple processors to access memory > separately without the intervention of the cpu. I think a combination of > custom software and this hardware would perform better than a solely > software approach would. I could well be wrong, but with my limited > knowlege it is hard for me to find a fault in the argument. LUnix is a new > word for me. Any more info? I could search for it, but you seem to know > your stuff and that is a rare thing I'm not likely to find in a blind > search. No, I agree, custom hardware and software would be the best approach. The problem with using something like this -- and granted I don't know that much about Atari internals, so maybe there's an MMU mode or application that could be exploited for a similar effect -- is that I'm not aware of any drop-in device for the 6502 that gives you something like a "memory fence" where, say, a fetch for location $0000 in the virtual addressing space of a process really goes and grabs location $2000 in actual RAM, or causes a page fault so that the kernel needs to go and grab "page" $0000 off disk and get a fetch from that. This is partially the fault of the 6502's architecture in that the only IRQs you get are the regular IRQ and the NMI, so you'd have to make a slightly complicated IRQ handler to poll and sort out where an interrupt is coming from (regular clock IRQ? NMI? NMI because of a page fault? IRQ because the scheduler says another process is up? etc., etc.), but C64s do this anyway for their array of IRQ sources (it's just expensive to do all that polling) and at the same time I think such a device is possible. I just don't have the technical skills to build one. So, the software approach instead intercepts all the opcodes and does all the address decoding logic before the processor ever gets to the opcode of a process. The kernel reads through, corrects the locations operands are pointing to, handles page faults if needed, and either hands the newly "safe" instruction to the CPU, throws a fault if the instruction cannot be made safe or is illegal, or handles it internally (like a branch moves the emulated PC in the kernel, a PHA/PLA/PHP/PLP manipulates the internal stack image, and so on). This also makes a rock solid OS, since no unsafe instruction ever gets control of the entire machine before the kernel decides it's safe. Slow, yes, but since not all the instructions are emulated it's faster than one might expect. Hopefully this makes some sense :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Really???? WOW!!!!! I'm shallow TOO!!!!! ----------------------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 16 18:01:56 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Funky looking mouse and other TCF stuff... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3401.208.227.9.12.979689716.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> This last thing I need help with. It looks to be about 20+ years old > but I could be wrong... It is bright red, almost perfectly round, has > a steel ball as the roller, 3 black switches, and says "5271" and then > "DEPRAZ - MOUSE" on the bottom. That mouse model was used with the AT&T/Teletype 5620 DMD terminal, the commercial version of Rob Pike's "BLIT". Probably used for other stuff as well. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 16 17:39:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <001301c07ff5$aec5fd60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: >What, sir, have you done today, that's of benefit to society? I answered a technical question with good free unbiased advice on another list about 10 seconds ago. Heck I may even take a shower today, refrain from suppressing other peoples ideas for my own profit, or forge any unethical business alliances. (someday I may learn to spell). From elvey at hal.com Tue Jan 16 18:08:01 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <200101162313.PAA09682@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <200101170008.f0H081R00175@civic.hal.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > The first program I did after I got my Timex-Sinclair 1000 in > > '82 was the same thing. I don't recall any longer where I got the > > basic program, but it didn't have a second hand so I spent a while > > keying it in and then 3-4 more hours trying to add the second hand to > > it. Unfortunately, I inadvertently wiggled the machine before I was > > finished and lost it all. > > I'm sorry, I died laughing at this point from sympathy, since a good > thwack to my 1000's 1016 RAM pack has historically been the quickest > way to crash the machine. :-) Hi This is when I learned about using silicon grease on the fingers of the connector. When coated, I could drop it onto a carpeted floor from table height without loss of data. I never tried it on a hard floor but then the first drop wasn't intended. Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 16 18:11:21 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Corporation's rights (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> References: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Message-ID: <3486.208.227.9.12.979690281.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> John Tinker wrote: > No, companies are limited liability constructs of the state. They fall > under the same social contract that the state does, even more so. Yes, > we can, and should, insist that corporations be ethical. The nature of > a corporation's "rights" is quite different than the nature of an > individual's rights. Unfortunately, the U.S. courts have "legislated" that corporations are "artificial persons", and have the rights thereof. This has caused lots of problems. There are people tring to get this fixed. The proposed Citizen's Sovereignty Amendment would eliminate this nonsense, and return to the states (under the 10th Amendment) the right to regulate corporations: http://28th.org/ [Personally I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed and ratified, but it's a worthy cause.] From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Jan 16 18:11:21 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Corporation's rights (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> References: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Message-ID: <3486.208.227.9.12.979690281.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> John Tinker wrote: > No, companies are limited liability constructs of the state. They fall > under the same social contract that the state does, even more so. Yes, > we can, and should, insist that corporations be ethical. The nature of > a corporation's "rights" is quite different than the nature of an > individual's rights. Unfortunately, the U.S. courts have "legislated" that corporations are "artificial persons", and have the rights thereof. This has caused lots of problems. There are people tring to get this fixed. The proposed Citizen's Sovereignty Amendment would eliminate this nonsense, and return to the states (under the 10th Amendment) the right to regulate corporations: http://28th.org/ [Personally I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed and ratified, but it's a worthy cause.] From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 16 18:20:24 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <200101162313.PAA09682@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200101162313.PAA09682@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > > The first program I did after I got my Timex-Sinclair 1000 in >> '82 was the same thing. I don't recall any longer where I got the >> basic program, but it didn't have a second hand so I spent a while >> keying it in and then 3-4 more hours trying to add the second hand to >> it. Unfortunately, I inadvertently wiggled the machine before I was >> finished and lost it all. > >I'm sorry, I died laughing at this point from sympathy, since a good >thwack to my 1000's 1016 RAM pack has historically been the quickest >way to crash the machine. :-) Electrically, the connection of the 1016 to the TS-1000 is flaky at best. I bought the 1000 new in '82 when they first became available and it was the first system that i actually owned, though I had been hanging around the Radio Shack stores for a number of years trying to figure out a way of getting one of the TRS-80 machines. I had the 1000 connected up to a portable B/W TV set and used the cassette deck in my stero for storage. It's always amazed me at how few parts there actually were inside the machine! I did most of my serious programming on the TRS-80 Model III's in my high school's computer lab though I used the 1000 to work on ideas while at home. My 2nd program on the Model III was a double-helix that spiraled up the screen. If you stared at it long enough it would appear to change speed and rotation direction. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 16 18:23:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) References: Message-ID: <000b01c0801b$c171b1e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) > >What, sir, have you done today, that's of benefit to society? > > ... (someday I may learn to spell). > A noble goal, fer shurrr! > > Dick From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 16 18:33:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Corporation's rights (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) References: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> <3486.208.227.9.12.979690281.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <001d01c0801d$30c38220$1192fea9@idcomm.com> This sort of thing scares me quite a bit, mainly because some states, notably Texas, would be likely to go totally fascist while others, might well go the other way. I don't find comfort in either extreme. There's plenty of case law that supports one notable difference between the rights of an individual and that of the "artificial person" built in to a corporation. That difference, and it's probably not the only one, is that while you can't punish a person for being stupid, though you can make him/her liable to injured parties, while corporate entities can be penalized for failing to behave responsibly, even in a technical sense. I'only sure of one thing, however, and that's that it's never that simple. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 5:11 PM Subject: [OT] Corporation's rights (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) > John Tinker wrote: > > No, companies are limited liability constructs of the state. They fall > > under the same social contract that the state does, even more so. Yes, > > we can, and should, insist that corporations be ethical. The nature of > > a corporation's "rights" is quite different than the nature of an > > individual's rights. > > Unfortunately, the U.S. courts have "legislated" that corporations are > "artificial persons", and have the rights thereof. This has caused lots > of problems. > > There are people tring to get this fixed. The proposed Citizen's > Sovereignty Amendment would eliminate this nonsense, and return to the > states (under the 10th Amendment) the right to regulate corporations: > > http://28th.org/ > > [Personally I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting > passed and ratified, but it's a worthy cause.] > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jan 16 16:42:39 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: [OT] Corporation's rights (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <3486.208.227.9.12.979690281.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010116163725.0263c2e0@208.226.86.10> At 04:11 PM 1/16/2001 -0800, Eric Smith wrote: >There are people tring to get this fixed. The proposed Citizen's >Sovereignty Amendment would eliminate this nonsense, and return to the >states (under the 10th Amendment) the right to regulate corporations: > >http://28th.org/ > >[Personally I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting >passed and ratified, but it's a worthy cause.] Actually it might get passed without that last clause. Why artifically deny the citizens the right to purchase (or do commerce with) a corporation that does not have a US office? It purports to give jurisdiction over the corporate entity thus US laws could be made to apply to said entity, but while necessary it is clearly insufficient (in particular web sites that provide "data" as a service but are only on the web, not instantiated in offices locally) and the clause's presence is not helpful. --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 16 19:19:23 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <003801c08024$b727a2e0$7a769a8d@ajp166> >> On the other hand, who knowsif history had been different, perhaps >> Apple and Microsoft would have gone away, Linux and other free UNICEs >> would never have come into existence, and most of us would now be >> using MP/M-IX with a GUI, many security features and long upper-case >> filenames, using 64-bit 300MHz CPUs descended from the Z80. I. The Pentium is related to the z80 by way of the 8088 based on the 8080! II. Before DOS there were people developing OSs, Flex, Unix, OS/9, NS*dos, And an assortment of CP/M clones. III. There were 16 bit decendants of 6502, they had potential. Allison From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 16 18:46:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Unixlike, multitasking 6502 (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <20010116204333.PQKZ7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <1417.417T2600T1066277optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >There are quite a number of multitasking 6502 machines out there. >Homebrews and C64s are represented. >The 'distribution' is called OS/A65. Which of course also runs on Andr? Fachat's own A65 and Gecko computer systems. The designs are freely available on his home page. For the C64, there is also Lunix, which even sports SLIP support and TCP/IP d?mons. I think further info should be here: http://www.heilbronn.netsurf.de/~dallmann/c64.html >Can you make a 6502-based machine 'do' virtual memory? If you can, maybe >we can port NetBSD to the Atari 8-bit. It might take a year to boot but >it would be a fun project. The way the Atari handles disk I/O makes me >think it is possible. Something like the Spartados X code substitution for >the standard SIO calls I think. Spartados X is a fantastic peice of work. >I've not seen anything that comes close to it (while maintaining >compatability with existing software that is). The thing which NetBSD would miss would be an MMU. And it probably would like 32 bits, too. And a good C compiler. Another interesting 8-bit UNIX project is Uzix, a UNIX-a-like from Brazil for the MSX. It seems very powerful indeed, at least given memory. Its UNIX API is quite well-implemented, too, it seems. http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~adrcunha/uzix -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 16 18:04:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <20010116200512.OOTA7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <1256.417T1300T645357optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >Another was a program which drove an optical digitizer I built from a >fiber-optic cable, an infrared fiber optic detector (variable >potentiomiter) and some tape. It plugged into the joystick port and used >the Vpot analog to digital converter the machine uses to 'read' >paddle-type game controllers. The tape-wrapped end of the fiber optic >cable fit nicely into one of the pen bays on an Atari 1020 color plotter. >Run a photo into the plotter and start the program. After a few minutes, >the photo is on screen in 16 shades of grey. Saving the image was as >simple as an incremeted "peek" and store of each location in screen >memory. I was very proud of it at the age of 14. I still have the program >and some 'girly' pictures I digitized with it, but the scanner hardware is >long lost. Sigh. My adolescent friends TOTALLY understood. ;-), I saw a similar construction on Computerclub (German television), but they built a drum scanner instead, wrapping the source image onto a roll which sat upon an old grammophone, while the scanner head was slowly moved downwards. No girlie pictures, though. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 16 18:39:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <20010116202659.PGAV7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <1167.417T250T993951optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >Experimentaly, I've grafted TCP/IP and PPP onto OS/2 version 2.11 from my >warp connect Bonus Pack cd. It works well, but is probably not 'legal' in >the strict sense of the word......even though I own both. Another option >might be TCP/IP from the Bonus Pack and the Novell Netware client for OS/2 >which, if MPTS is not installed will provide it's own transport. For version 2.11, how about these files from Hobbes: http://www.os2ss.com/archives/hobbes/os2/system/patches/v2.x/tcp20c1.exe http://www.os2ss.com/archives/hobbes/os2/system/patches/v2.x/tcp20c2.exe http://www.os2ss.com/archives/hobbes/os2/system/patches/v2.x/tcp20c3.exe I downloaded these a while ago while I still had a 2.11 partition, but never got around to attempting an install. I suppose all this networking has made me too lazy to withstand disk juggling any more. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. S? ja. Forts?tt bara som du g?r s? kommer du i s?kerhet, och raka dig n?r du kommer hem s? ser du kanske inte ut som en apa. Du kan ju leva ett ombonat liv, t?lja tr?gubbar eller n?t s?nt. Lupin III till Jigen, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 17 04:21:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <003801c08024$b727a2e0$7a769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <750.417T1600T6815681optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >>> On the other hand, who knowsif history had been different, perhaps >>> Apple and Microsoft would have gone away, Linux and other free UNICEs >>> would never have come into existence, and most of us would now be >>> using MP/M-IX with a GUI, many security features and long upper-case >>> filenames, using 64-bit 300MHz CPUs descended from the Z80. >I. The Pentium is related to the z80 by way of the 8088 based on the >8080! And Zilog developed a 16 (or 32-bit?) descendant of the Z80 themselves, too, I might add. The Z8000. >III. There were 16 bit decendants of 6502, they had potential. The 65816, right? Used in the Super Nintendo, amongst others. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. When all else fails, read the instructions. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 17 10:08:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: memory IC's available References: <1167.417T250T993951optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000701c0809f$c4d62da0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've been picking through the wasteland (my basement) and find I have a substantial number of of the 3-voltage DRAMs that were popular in the early '80's and before. These include a number of MK4027 and equivalent 4k x 1 and 4116 and equivalent 16K x 1 devices. Some of the 16k-bit devices are of the 4215 variety, which, though otherwise identical to the 4116, requires twice as frequent a refresh cycle. If you think you need some of these, please make your wishes known to me and I'll distribute these as my ability to meet the needs of this varied bunch allows. It's pretty clear that I won't be using many of these in the future. Dick From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Jan 16 23:01:38 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200101170503.f0H53dD09966@grover.winsite.com> <> > Also, with regards to his > persistence in pursuing monopolistic tactics: with his fortune, why > doesn't the man just give it up, sell Microsoft to someone else, in > whole or in pieces, and just enjoy life? Why does he keep working, at > Microsoft, still trying to totally dominate the market, doing work > that's of no real benefit to society? It's not like he's working at > purshuing some sort of intellectual pursuit, which would make more > sense to keep working at. It appears to be just plain greed... or, > ok, to be kind, perhaps the poor man's got an obsessive/compulsive > disorder he can't shake. > If you read any of the unbiased stuff written about him, mainly by people who aren't under his thumb, you'll find that the money doesn't matter to him anymore. His main drive always has been, and always will be, to win at everything. Doesn't matter how he does it, but he has an uncontrollable need to win. But only in things he knows he can win. If it's a field that he can clearly see that he's outclassed, he'll just walk away, saying, "We've determined that it's inconsequential, so we're not going to waste any more time on it." That way, he still appears to have conquered. Goes back to his days at Harvard. He knew he sucked at math, so instead he played a lot of poker, which he knew he could win at. I've talked to a couple of guys who have known him since the old days. His character, at it's core, hasn't really changed from the day Paul Allen brought that copy of the Jan '75 issue of Popular Electronics back to the dorm room and he was frantic that someone else might have already started writing software for the Altair. Read a lot of what's written about Gates by guys like Bob Cringely. Guys who aren't starstruck. Guys who don't work for ZDNet. That warm, fuzzy, Mr. Rogers look on the TV commercials covers up a pretty focused, ruthless mentality. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jan 17 09:26:30 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010117102630.35e751b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone know what disks format the IBM Display writer uses? Joe From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 16 14:58:41 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D72@TEGNTSERVER> > There is the OS/2 operating system, the workplace shell, the MPTS product, > the TCP/IP product, and the multimedia product to name a few. This > modular approach is one thing that makes OS/2 so scaleable. Like Linux and > BSD and unlike any Windos product, you don't NEED the GUI to have a useful > machine. Without the GUI, a 4mb 386sx with a small hard drive can be made > to perform useful work with good performance. There are also several > alternate GUI's provided that are not as processor intensive as the > Workplace Shell/Presentation Manager product. With OS/2 2.0, 2.1, and > 2.11, there was even an alternate GUI that gave OS/2 a Windows 3.x look > and feel. Just like changing the Windows 9x gui to Progman.exe by editing > System.ini will give 9x a 3.x look and feel. Under 9x, you can also > "Start, Run, Progman". That sounds like Stardock's Object Desktop for OS/2... I believe they brought this product up to version 3/Warp revision level, but just recently dropped support for the product. Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 16 14:42:33 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D71@TEGNTSERVER> > My first useful program was a graphical alarm clock. I'm a dropout and so > missed math education beyond arithmetic. This is why I do all my agebraic > problems linearly as you do in programing. I still don't understand how > and why algebra is done the way it is in schools. Boolean algebra makes > so much more sense to me. Trig smoothly describes the world as it really is- the approximations you independently discovered describe the world well enough to fool human perception. More on this below. > Anyway, I was trying to plot the face of a circular clock. First I tried > using PI as the base for the plotting and my clock's face came out wierd > and incomplete. After messing with the program for some hours I realized > that OF COURSE a circle derived from pi was going to be incomplete because > PI is irrational. No matter how many digits after the dicimal you use, you > will never get a complete circle, just a progressively less incomplete > one. Duh. Back to the drawing board. > > I started hitting the trig functions looking for an answer and hit on > Sine/cosine as the way to do it. Educating yourself is hard and you often > have to backtrack like that. You only have to look at AutoCAD to see how crappy a circle looks when derived by trigonometric evaluation; it wouldn't be that way if there was enough precision available, but there never seems to be... So, a guy named Bresenham came up with a click way to generate a circle, and it was improved upon by another computer scientist named Michener. it takes advantage of the 8-way symmetry a circle will have when created in the approximate fashion that pixels arranged in a Cartesian grid yields. The algorithm generates the points for a single octant of the circle, then generates the other seven octants by (essentially) changing the sign of the values for the first octant. The virual result are perfectly symmetric approximations of circles. There's also an algorithm I saw written up in Byte years ago for doing parabolas; the author referred to it as the Variable Duty-Cycle Algorithm. For a dummy radar-display I hacked up, to handle the sweep line, I simply at program start-up pre-computed all the data for the lines in each position of the sweep; I did it with trigonometric evaluation, but stored the daata in an array and just puked it out at runtime. But just like with the calculator, it helps to understand the fundamentals before trying to implement a solution sans science. OTOH, not knowing the fundamentals has failed to stop many a man... ...OOPS! And women, too, I guess (apologies to Megan and Allison!). Regards, -dq From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Jan 17 10:42:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs Message-ID: I knew about computers for a long time before I actually bought one for myself, and from articles and books knew a bit of basic. One of my first programs was a couple lines of basic I could quickly type in on the demo computers at Radio Shack. It endlessly printed to the screen a string one character at a time with about a 3 second delay between characters, "I am a slow and stupid computer. ". Made a nice pattern on the screen. From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 17 12:11:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Gates' Greed (was: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <200101170503.f0H53dD09966@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > But only in things he knows he can win. If it's a field that he can > clearly see that he's outclassed, he'll just walk away, saying, > "We've determined that it's inconsequential, so we're not going to > waste any more time on it." That way, he still appears to have > conquered. Then he comes back a couple years later when the idea actually proves to have merit, harriedly develops a highly inferior competing product, uses marketing might and FUD tactics to shove it down the throats of consumers, eats up market share, drives the competitor's market share down, and then ultimately buys the competing company. How many times have we seen this happen? It's easier to count how many times the competitor actually ended up coming out on top. I think I can keep count of that with my genitals. Intuit is the most obvious example. MS kept pushing Money free with almost every product they put out but Intuit was too savvy for them (a credit to their CEO I think). Finally, MS tried to buy Intuit last year (anyone remember that?) I believe the FTC or someone would not allow the merger and killed it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 17 12:12:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <750.417T1600T6815681optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 17 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >III. There were 16 bit decendants of 6502, they had potential. > > The 65816, right? Used in the Super Nintendo, amongst others. The Apple IIgs being another. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 17 13:29:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010117102630.35e751b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know what disks format the IBM Display writer uses? It is a bit of an oddball, Joe - 8" SSSD, but with 256 byte SD sectors. At the moment, I cannot tell you how many per track. There may possibly be a DS version, but I have no information on that aside from an oblique hint that it might exist. I think that I have some around here - if I can resurrect them - if more information is important. - don From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Jan 17 14:10:55 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: first programs Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B1490A@msx1.cboe.com> I don't remember the first program that I wrote. It was probably "print 1+1" on the PDP-8 we had at school. I do remember the first program that I loaded into my Altair when I got it running. Remember that Altair came with no I/O other than the switches and LEDs of the front panel. The program came from the Altair User's Group and was a simple game called "Kill The Bit". The Altair has 8 "data" LEDs on the front panel. "Kill The Bit" lit one of the 8, and kept changing it, around and around. Your job was to toggle one of the front panel switches at just the right time, otherwise you would create more "bits" to kill. Rob Kapteyn From at258 at osfn.org Wed Jan 17 15:29:20 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010117102630.35e751b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I was told that it was the same as the System 36, and possibly 23 also. We were talking about that when be got an old IBM disk archiver. I haven't looked into it any further than that, though. On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > Does anyone know what disks format the IBM Display writer uses? > > Joe > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 17 15:50:02 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: 6502 and beyond .. (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <750.417T1600T6815681optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010117215128.BWCY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The Apple IIgs was the only mainstream general-purpose computer which used the 65c816 ( that I am aware of ). There is an upgrade called the Turbo 816 for the Atari 8-bit, and one or more similar accellerators for the C64. Regards, Jeff In <750.417T1600T6815681optimus@canit.se>, on 01/17/01 at 04:49 PM, "Iggy Drougge" said: >>III. There were 16 bit decendants of 6502, they had potential. >The 65816, right? Used in the Super Nintendo, amongst others -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 17 15:54:46 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:13 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D72@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: <20010117215657.CAOW7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D72@TEGNTSERVER>, on 01/17/01 at 04:54 PM, Douglas Quebbeman said: Yea! Object Desktop is GOD'S OWN TOY. I love it! They ported it to Windos, but it caused lots of stability problems. The OS/2 version runs beautifully and I've been addicted to it for years. My favorite component is the virtual desktop feature. I couldn't live without it. The Windows version is a program. The OS/2 version is not. It is a collection of Workplace Shell objects simply taking advantage of the OS/2 Gui's object inheritance and polymorphism. Pretty darn impressive. Regards, Jeff >That sounds like Stardock's Object Desktop for OS/2... I believe they >brought this product up to version 3/Warp revision level, but just >recently dropped support for the product. >Regards, >-dq -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 17 15:58:20 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Thats pretty funny! I bet the folks at Radio Shack didn't think so..... There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? Regards, Jeff In , on 01/17/01 at 04:58 PM, Mike Ford said: >I knew about computers for a long time before I actually bought one for >myself, and from articles and books knew a bit of basic. One of my first >programs was a couple lines of basic I could quickly type in on the demo >computers at Radio Shack. It endlessly printed to the screen a string one >character at a time with about a 3 second delay between characters, "I am >a slow and stupid computer. ". Made a nice pattern on the screen. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 17 15:43:16 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the > computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? Yes, it was. I'm sure there is someone more knowledgeable that can comment on this, but apparently it had somethin to do with setting the refresh rate on the display to something it couldn't handle, and it would fry it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 17 17:06:12 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010117231330.EMDF7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> That is a little more boring than I imagined, but I'm glad it's not another 'totally true urban legend'. I had imagined a design fault that fried logic circuits on the main board and didn't know it was display related. Thanks for the info! Regards, Jeff In , on 01/17/01 at 06:06 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >> There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the >> computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? >Yes, it was. I'm sure there is someone more knowledgeable that can >comment on this, but apparently it had somethin to do with setting the >refresh rate on the display to something it couldn't handle, and it would > fry it. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From peter at joules.org Wed Jan 17 17:28:28 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Thats pretty funny! I bet the folks at Radio Shack didn't think so..... > > There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the > computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? > Look at: http://www.zimmers.net/cbmpics/cbm/PETx/petfaq.html and search for 'Killer Poke' Perhaps someone - Tony perhaps? can tell us whether this did actually exist? -- Regards Pete From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 17 17:33:12 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs References: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <003701c080dd$dc6e2e70$7b794ed8@DOMAIN> > > There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the > computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? Heh... not sure about this one but there was one to turn the charset on Ataris upside down that I routinly visited on store demo units. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 17 17:41:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: from "Peter Joules" at Jan 17, 1 11:28:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1852 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010117/54a1e27b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 17 17:44:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: <003701c080dd$dc6e2e70$7b794ed8@DOMAIN> from "Mike" at Jan 17, 1 06:33:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 373 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010117/3fa00f13/attachment.ksh From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Jan 17 17:59:54 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Aquarius? Message-ID: My friend has a Mattel Aquarius computer on eBay - thought I'd mention it since it's still cheap and may be of interest to someone that collects older machines. It's item 1208196262 if you're inclined to check it out. I believe it's a fairly complete setup and in good condition. I can however attest to the fact that the seller is very repautable and very good to work with. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jan 17 17:49:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! Message-ID: <003501c080e1$6ce83c90$6f779a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge > >And Zilog developed a 16 (or 32-bit?) descendant of the Z80 themselves, too, I >might add. The Z8000. Z80 and Z8000 are not even close to each other. The Z80 is superset of 8080 and 8088 is more an offshoot of that. The 16bit Z80 and the later 32bit are the Z280 and 380 series and they are z80 code compatable. >The 65816, right? Used in the Super Nintendo, amongst others. AppleIIgs as well. Allison From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Jan 17 18:15:38 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c080e3$c9c81b40$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > There's certainly such a POKE for the HP71B...display comes out > upside-down... My belief is that the HP's were well enough engineered that there were no 'Fry Pokes' accessable to the user. On Topic, one of the neatest things I remember reading as a beginning programmer was in the HP85 manual where it said something like: 'There is no way you can damage the computer through use of the keyboard'. That was the right thing to say to (somewhat shy) me. John A. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Jan 17 18:22:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: >There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the >computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? The POKE was used to speed up the screen on the early PETs and the Commodore 'fixed' the design in later PETs causing the POKE to do things the display hardware wasn't able to cope with. Performing this POKE on a later PET will permenantly damage the system after just a few seconds, though you'll definately know if a program you're running performs it. Unfortunately, quite a few early programs use it, as it was widely circulated in magazine articles and such. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Jan 17 18:23:51 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Pepsi (was: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: <000201c080e3$c9c81b40$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, John Allain wrote: > neatest things I remember reading as a beginning programmer was in > the HP85 manual where it said something like: > 'There is no way you can damage the computer through use of the > keyboard'. > That was the right thing to say to (somewhat shy) me. I have always reassured my programming students that nothing that they accidentally enter through the keyboard of their computers would actually DAMAGE the computer. One wiseguy said,"I entered a Pepsi." After Three Mile Island, Saturday Night Live postulated that it was caused by "The Pepsi Syndrome", the result of spilling a Pepsi into a computer keyboard. Shortly after that, the U.S.A. and USSR (CCCP) normalized diplomatic relations enough to import vodka and export Pepsi to Russia. That was followed almost immediately by Chernobyl. Surely that could not be coincidence! Until their recent bailout, Apple computers ride into failure was with a former Pepsi executive at the helm. Coincidence? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 17 18:24:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: <000201c080e3$c9c81b40$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> from "John Allain" at Jan 17, 1 07:15:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1431 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/9aeb1fb5/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 17 19:18:14 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Nuke Redmond! In-Reply-To: <003501c080e1$6ce83c90$6f779a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Jan 17, 1 06:49:48 pm" Message-ID: <200101180118.RAA08226@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >The 65816, right? Used in the Super Nintendo, amongst others. > AppleIIgs as well. And the subset of Commodores powered with a SuperCPU add-on board. By the way, the Z80000 is my favourite obscure processor. Too bad it was so buggy. Commodore tried using the Z8001 in the scrapped 900 UNIX server they made for a very brief period before acquiring Amiga. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time makes more converts than reason. -- Thomas Payne ---------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Jan 17 19:16:22 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1952.208.227.9.12.979780582.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > I've heard a rumour (and have not attempted to test it for myself, for > obvious reasons) that using some undoucmented instructions on the HP97 > (programmable printing calculator) could fry the printhead. There was > no way to generate these instructions from the keyboard in normal use, > but enterprising hackers did find ways of getting them onto magnetic > cards. The damage would occur if you tried to print a "Non-Normalized Number" (NNN). The microcode would get confused in a state which left the printhead turned on. It can't handle continuous current for more than a small fraction of a second, so it goes up in a puff of smoke. The reason for playing with NNNs was that they allowed for interesting displays which were useful in games. The undocumented "instructions" of the HP-97, such as CF4, SF4, and LBLi, *can* be generated from the keyboard using devious key sequences. But they don't do anything. From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 17 18:16:41 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: first programs In-Reply-To: <20010117215857.CCDY7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <486.418T2050T766099optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >Thats pretty funny! I bet the folks at Radio Shack didn't think so..... >There used to be a poke on early Commodor Pets that would fry the >computer. At least I HEARD there was one. Anybody know if this is true? Yes. ISTR that it was a case of under-specced capacitors, which would go cookoo if the screen was programmed outside specifications. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From aclark at envirolink.org Wed Jan 17 19:39:10 2001 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <003801c08024$b727a2e0$7a769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203637.02eb0d30@manatee.envirolink.org> I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any help greatly appreciated!! Arthur Clark From aclark at envirolink.org Wed Jan 17 19:45:31 2001 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: [OT] Corporation's rights (was Re: Nuke Redmond!) In-Reply-To: <3486.208.227.9.12.979690281.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> <3A6460DA.F38C13CE@coin.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203918.02eb2e80@manatee.envirolink.org> In my experience, the best resource bar none on corporate personhood and its disastrous effects on American society is the Program on Corporations, Law & Democracy. You can check them out at http://www.poclad.org I have attended several POCLAD conferences, and read many of their publications. I cannot recommend them highly enough. Arthur Clark At 04:11 PM 1/16/01 -0800, you wrote: >John Tinker wrote: > > No, companies are limited liability constructs of the state. They fall > > under the same social contract that the state does, even more so. Yes, > > we can, and should, insist that corporations be ethical. The nature of > > a corporation's "rights" is quite different than the nature of an > > individual's rights. > >Unfortunately, the U.S. courts have "legislated" that corporations are >"artificial persons", and have the rights thereof. This has caused lots >of problems. > >There are people tring to get this fixed. The proposed Citizen's >Sovereignty Amendment would eliminate this nonsense, and return to the >states (under the 10th Amendment) the right to regulate corporations: > >http://28th.org/ > >[Personally I don't think it has a snowball's chance in hell of getting >passed and ratified, but it's a worthy cause.] From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 17 18:56:32 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203637.02eb0d30@manatee.envirolink.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Arthur Clark wrote: > I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ > series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to > the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any > help greatly appreciated!! Art, This is a hard drive controller card for the Sider and Sider ][ hard disk systems. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From louiss at gate.net Wed Jan 17 20:11:54 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203637.02eb0d30@manatee.envirolink.org> Message-ID: <200101180211.VAA23214@cocopah.gate.net> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:39:10 -0500, Arthur Clark wrote: *I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ *series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to *the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any *help greatly appreciated!! * *Arthur Clark * It is a SASI card (the precursor to SCSI) intended for use with the "Sider" hard drive. Siders came in various sizes, up to 40 megs, I believe. Their major benefit (I use one on my //e) is that they came with partitioning software allowing you to boot into DOS, ProDOS, CP/M or Pascal. This is a Very nice feature. Louis From aclark at envirolink.org Wed Jan 17 20:26:18 2001 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Good Money, was Re: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <200101180211.VAA23214@cocopah.gate.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203637.02eb0d30@manatee.envirolink.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117212352.00a152f0@manatee.envirolink.org> Thanks Louis! Good money awaits anyone willing to sell me a working Sider hard drive and cable for this card. Arthur Clark At 09:11 PM 1/17/01 -0500, Louis Schulman wrote: >On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:39:10 -0500, Arthur Clark wrote: > >*I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an >Apple ][ >*series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector >attached to >*the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. >Any >*help greatly appreciated!! >* >*Arthur Clark >* >It is a SASI card (the precursor to SCSI) intended for use with the >"Sider" hard drive. > >Siders came in various sizes, up to 40 megs, I believe. Their major >benefit (I use one on my //e) is that they came with partitioning >software allowing you to boot into DOS, ProDOS, CP/M or Pascal. This >is a Very nice feature. > >Louis From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Jan 17 20:39:29 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203637.02eb0d30@manatee.envirolink.org> References: <003801c08024$b727a2e0$7a769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010117183929.007bf6f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> 37 pins? What an oddball number. I have seen floppy cables with 50, 34 or 20 pins. 5-1/4" MFM hard drives have 34 pin plus 20 pin. SCSI hard drives have 50 pins. Try to find other printing, like a model number, on the card. Edwin At 08:39 PM 1/17/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ >series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to >the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any >help greatly appreciated!! > >Arthur Clark > > From rdd at smart.net Wed Jan 17 21:01:38 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: B.Gates psychological analysis (was: Gates' Greed) In-Reply-To: <200101170503.f0H53dD09966@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: Hey, cool, material for a psychological case study! Let's apply some of what we learned in our abnormal psych. classes to what's been quoted! On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Paul Braun wrote: [re: B. Gates] > and always will be, to win at everything. Doesn't matter how he > does it, but he has an uncontrollable need to win. Hmmm... must win at any cost, uncontrollable... scribble, scribble. Sounds like antisocial personality disorder (a.k.a. psychopathy, formerly known as moral insanity), perhaps. Do the following common characteristics of this sound familiar? - inadequate conscience development - ability to impress and exploit others - irresponsible and impulsive behavior - rejection of authority Typically, such people as "unprincipled business professionals," "high-pressure evangelists," "crooked politicians," and other various criminals [Carson, Butcher and Mineka] fit into this category. Dangerous, to himself and others? Hey, isn't that the main criteria for an involuntary trip to a place where the men with white coats and nets take one to, where one can sit quietly in a room and weave baskets once the medication takes effect and the straightjacket can be removed? [please note: I'm not being insensitive to mental illness, which is truly not a joking matter; however, in this case, I feel compelled to to add a little levity due to the seriousness of the matter at hand, to help combat the problems which we've had to put up with as a result of someone's possible illness.] > "We've determined that it's inconsequential, so we're not going to > waste any more time on it." That way, he still appears to have > conquered. Hmmm... absurd, illogical and changeable delusions... scribble, scribble... a touch of paranoid schizophrenia it seems. This can result in occasional dangerous behavior... scribble, scribble. > Goes back to his days at Harvard. He knew he sucked at math, so > instead he played a lot of poker, which he knew he could win at. Hmmm... a learning disorder perhaps... scribble, scribble... learning disabled? > I've talked to a couple of guys who have known him since the old > days. His character, at it's core, hasn't really changed from the day Hmmm... aversion to change; scribble, scribble... possible adjustment disorder. > Paul Allen brought that copy of the Jan '75 issue of Popular > Electronics back to the dorm room and he was frantic that > someone else might have already started writing software for the > Altair. Hmmm... possible obsessive-compulsive personality disorder... scribble, scribble. > warm, fuzzy, Mr. Rogers look on the TV commercials covers up a > pretty focused, ruthless mentality. Hmmm... combatativeness, exploitiveness, predation... scribble, scribble... wolf in sheep's clothing, able to impress and exploit others... scribble, scribble... again, appears to have an antisocial personality disorder; a psychopath. Yes, appears dangerous to himself and others. Now, all we need are two doctors to verify what we already think to be the problems and tell it to a judge. It should be obvious that the poor man needs help. Dang, perhaps easier and less expensive to handle it this way than to fool with the time and expense of the antitrust hearings! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 17 21:18:55 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010117183929.007bf6f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <20010118031812.LUDA7898.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <3.0.5.32.20010117183929.007bf6f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu>, on 01/17/01 at 10:18 PM, "Edwin P. Groot" said: > 37 pins? What an oddball number. I have seen floppy cables with 50, >34 or 20 pins. 5-1/4" MFM hard drives have 34 pin plus 20 pin. SCSI hard >drives have 50 pins. > Try to find other printing, like a model number, on the card. >Edwin >At 08:39 PM 1/17/2001 -0500, you wrote: >>I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ >>series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to >>the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any >>help greatly appreciated!! >> >>Arthur Clark >> >> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From archer at topnow.com Wed Jan 17 21:25:48 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought Message-ID: <3A66623C.BC09A876@topnow.com> I have a partially-functional KIM-1 (date code 0378) I'd like to restore. (And if anyone has one in good condition to sell, I'm also interested.) Currently, there are two things wrong, and I'm looking for general advice on what if anything can be done to fix them: 1. The keypad is pretty flakey. Several keys register erratically, and when they do, they bounce and report multiple times. The '0' key is particularly bad in this respect. The 'PC' key is utterly caved in. But all but the PC key registers in with varying degrees of retries and effort. I'm handy with soldering, and could remove the keypad, but don't have any idea how to clean / fix a keypad, let alone repair any broken springs, contacts, etc. Can it even be done? Has anyone here even seen the inside of one of these? 2. The cassette interface doesn't read. It writes fine, the +12 supply is showing up where it's expected (pin 8 of LM311) and +11-ish on the 565 PLL, but I have no idea what the "normal" voltages on each pin are to assist in further troubleshooting. All I'm sure about is that the output of the LM311 is not anything like what's expected, and the trimpot doesn't affect the PLL frequency one iota according to my scope. Any thoughts on how to tell what section is bad? Thanks for any ideas out there. In the meantime, I am thinking of wiring an outboard keypad and hooking it to the application connector. Hand-wired, of course. Where else would you find a 3x7 matrix? . From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 21:31:04 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification Message-ID: <20010118033104.56191.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > In <3.0.5.32.20010117183929.007bf6f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu>, on 01/17/01 > at 10:18 PM, "Edwin P. Groot" said: > > > 37 pins? What an oddball number. I have seen floppy cables with 50, > >34 or 20 pins. 5-1/4" MFM hard drives have 34 pin plus 20 pin. SCSI hard > >drives have 50 pins. I've got an Amiga external SCSI drive made by Tecmar that has a 37-pin connector. Don't have the interface to go with it, though. It's a modular extruded aluminum case (like some modems) with a 3.5" MFM drive inside and some flavor of SCSI<->MFM bridge card to do the dirty work. Mine came from university surplus, so I have never seen it operate, FWIW. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Jan 17 22:08:30 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Death by Poking Message-ID: On the subject of early 'fragile' monitors, kill-able by the wrong refresh rate: I was always under the impression that, being by neccessity rather cheaply engineered and produced devices... the designers used many of the long-standing "tricks" from decades of consumer TV practice to "get by with less". Anyone who has worked at all with (especially 60s-era) TV sets will know what this means. The beam deflection circuits in most monitors have magnetic deflection coils around the neck of the CRT (called the deflection 'yoke) which carry the vertical and horizontal sweep frequencies and thereby move the internal electron beam around on the face of the CRT screen. Since the early monitors were designed to run at very limited sweep rates (or even at one single sweep or refresh rate) the engineers could use a factor called "resonance" to get by with less wire in the coils and simpler electronics to drive them Basically, the yoke coil is calculated to 'ring' at a certain frequency, and of course this is the horizontal refresh rate. The circuit is designed so that at that freq, the yoke is in resonance, and therefore uses less current to get the job done; hence less wire and lighter, cheaper parts. The circuit is made to be resonant over just a narrow range of frequencies (called the 'Q' of the circuit) and if the driving signal strays very far from this range either way, the circuit is no longer in a condition of resonance, it begins to draw large amounts of power trying to do the same work, and, in a lot of the 'cheap' monitors, the whole thing actually overheats and burns up while you are looking at the jagged lines and trying to figure out what to do next. Any kind of setting (hardware or software) which could alter the horizontal rate without reagrd to the type of CRT device it's driving is liable to this kind of smoke-producing behavior. Newer multi-sync CRTS have spoiled us... ALSO: Long ago in the Big Iron days... the were some machines in the Philco line whose power supplies in some configs were marginally inadequate. It was possible to load the machine (with programs and data) and trip (or burn) the power units... but this was an isolated case. Program damage to most older computer systems was mostly caused by making peripherals do things they shouldn't... usually in cases of the device handler software being abused or tweaked by The Unwary and causing resultant mechanical damage. Cheerz John From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 17 22:53:36 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010117183929.007bf6f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Edwin P. Groot wrote: > 37 pins? What an oddball number. I have seen floppy cables with 50, 34 > or 20 pins. 5-1/4" MFM hard drives have 34 pin plus 20 pin. SCSI hard > drives have 50 pins. You forget that virtually every external floppy drive connector on a FDC is a 37-pin D-sub connector - irrespective of floppy disk size. However, this is apparently for a hard-disk. - don > Try to find other printing, like a model number, on the card. > > Edwin > > At 08:39 PM 1/17/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ > >series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to > >the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any > >help greatly appreciated!! > > > >Arthur Clark > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 17 22:03:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <200101180211.VAA23214@cocopah.gate.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Louis Schulman wrote: > Siders came in various sizes, up to 40 megs, I believe. Their major > benefit (I use one on my //e) is that they came with partitioning > software allowing you to boot into DOS, ProDOS, CP/M or Pascal. This > is a Very nice feature. I realized after it was too late that the numerous DOS partitions I created on mine were worthless. The ProDOS partition was far functional. At any rate, it served me well, and in fact still does. The Sider ][ I have (20 megs) used to run 24/7 servicing a BBS for a couple years. I bought it in around 1989 or so and it is still going strong. I've been trying to move more important files off of it (old writings, letters, essays, etc.) before it finally kicks the bucket. It has rarely been used since the early 90's but still. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Jan 17 22:04:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Good Money, was Re: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117212352.00a152f0@manatee.envirolink.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Arthur Clark wrote: > Thanks Louis! Good money awaits anyone willing to sell me a working Sider > hard drive and cable for this card. The cable is a ribbon cable that terminates on a connector that a shielded external cable connects between that and the HD. Niether will be easy to find. Although I have found at least two Sider's in the past couple years at thrift stores and a local surplus electronics store. One worked just fine and I use it at the VCF as part of my "cashier" terminal. The other was dead. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jan 17 23:23:44 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> I've got a newly re-functioning VAXStation 2000 which is equipped with an RD54 hard drive. The system boots into Ultrix 3.1 however it is _very_ loud. The drive has got a serious whine to it. I'm wondering if there is a bering or a brush somewhere that I can lubricate to cut down on the noise! --Chuck From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 17 22:57:28 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: B.Gates psychological analysis (was: Gates' Greed) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Hey, cool, material for a psychological case study! Let's apply some > of what we learned in our abnormal psych. classes to what's been > quoted! > > On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Paul Braun wrote: > [re: B. Gates] > > and always will be, to win at everything. Doesn't matter how he > > does it, but he has an uncontrollable need to win. > > Hmmm... must win at any cost, uncontrollable... scribble, scribble. > Sounds like antisocial personality disorder (a.k.a. psychopathy, > formerly known as moral insanity), perhaps. Do the following common > characteristics of this sound familiar? > > - inadequate conscience development > - ability to impress and exploit others > - irresponsible and impulsive behavior > - rejection of authority > > Typically, such people as "unprincipled business professionals," > "high-pressure evangelists," "crooked politicians," and other various > criminals [Carson, Butcher and Mineka] fit into this category. > > Dangerous, to himself and others? Hey, isn't that the main criteria > for an involuntary trip to a place where the men with white coats and > nets take one to, where one can sit quietly in a room and weave > baskets once the medication takes effect and the straightjacket can be > removed? > > [please note: I'm not being insensitive to mental illness, which is > truly not a joking matter; however, in this case, I feel compelled to > to add a little levity due to the seriousness of the matter at hand, > to help combat the problems which we've had to put up with as a result > of someone's possible illness.] > > > "We've determined that it's inconsequential, so we're not going to > > waste any more time on it." That way, he still appears to have > > conquered. > > Hmmm... absurd, illogical and changeable delusions... scribble, > scribble... a touch of paranoid schizophrenia it seems. This can > result in occasional dangerous behavior... scribble, scribble. > > > Goes back to his days at Harvard. He knew he sucked at math, so > > instead he played a lot of poker, which he knew he could win at. > > Hmmm... a learning disorder perhaps... scribble, scribble... learning > disabled? > > > I've talked to a couple of guys who have known him since the old > > days. His character, at it's core, hasn't really changed from the day > > Hmmm... aversion to change; scribble, scribble... possible adjustment > disorder. > > > Paul Allen brought that copy of the Jan '75 issue of Popular > > Electronics back to the dorm room and he was frantic that > > someone else might have already started writing software for the > > Altair. > > Hmmm... possible obsessive-compulsive personality > disorder... scribble, scribble. > > > warm, fuzzy, Mr. Rogers look on the TV commercials covers up a > > pretty focused, ruthless mentality. > > Hmmm... combatativeness, exploitiveness, predation... scribble, > scribble... wolf in sheep's clothing, able to impress and exploit > others... scribble, scribble... again, appears to have an antisocial > personality disorder; a psychopath. > > Yes, appears dangerous to himself and others. Now, all we need are > two doctors to verify what we already think to be the problems and > tell it to a judge. It should be obvious that the poor man needs > help. Dang, perhaps easier and less expensive to handle it this way > than to fool with the time and expense of the antitrust hearings! :-) Is this Bill Gates or Bill Clinton that you are describing? (Or both?) - don > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 17 23:34:17 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I've got a newly re-functioning VAXStation 2000 which is equipped with an > RD54 hard drive. The system boots into Ultrix 3.1 however it is _very_ > loud. The drive has got a serious whine to it. I'm wondering if there is a > bering or a brush somewhere that I can lubricate to cut down on the noise! Chuck, if it really is an RD54 - aka Maxtor XT2190 - the motor is internal and inaccessible. There is, however, a Priam 519 that has the same parameters as the Maxtor, and it has rotating parts external to the disk housing. I do not know whether DEC used Priam or not, though. - don From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 18 00:00:21 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117215247.0366d1e0@208.226.86.10> At 09:34 PM 1/17/01 -0800, Don wrote: >Chuck, if it really is an RD54 - aka Maxtor XT2190 - the motor is >internal and inaccessible. Sigh, says Maxtor 2190 on the label. Hmmmm, I suppose I could take apart but probably won't, the noise is pretty incredible though. --Chuck From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 00:03:57 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Death by Poking Message-ID: <20010118060357.56651.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > Basically, the yoke coil is calculated to 'ring' at a certain frequency... > ...The circuit is designed so that at that freq, the yoke is in resonance, > and therefore uses less current to get the job done; hence less wire and > lighter, cheaper parts... it begins to draw large amounts of power trying to > do the same work, and, in a lot of the 'cheap' monitors, the whole thing > actually overheats and burns up while you are looking at the jagged lines > and trying to figure out what to do next. We lost a 19" Dell monitor (not cheap) at work last year when our Webguy punched in an unfortunate refresh rate and didn't hit test first. I wasn't there at the time, but my two buddies in IT who were in his cube (but facing away at the time) said the flash was impressive. > ALSO: Long ago in the Big Iron days... the were some machines in the > Philco line whose power supplies in some configs were marginally > inadequate. It was possible to load the machine (with programs and data) > and trip (or burn) the power units... I heard about someone who disassembled a "worst-case" memory diagnostic for some DEC machine with core, perhaps the PDP-8, perhaps some other 1960's model. He calculated that the program did not, in fact, perform a worst- case test for memory access/data loss. He described his ideas to improve the program to a Digit (DEC employee) who was familiar with the hardware and software in question. The curious customer was warned against implementing his idea because it was already known that a true worst-case scenario would result in too much current being drawn through the core stack, causing serious thermal problems if left to run for extended periods of time. Also, there were programs in the days if Big Iron to abuse hardware built with a particular duty cycle in mind, print hammers coming to mind. One I was told about by the perpetrator was simple and fiendish - he analyzed the pattern of letters on the band and devised a print line that caused all the hammers to trip at once, rather than the usual 10%-20% that fired when ordinary text was printed. The resulting current drain from a relatively small number of lines of this, fried the power supply. Then there's the practice of writing disk diagnostics that take advantage of harmonic oscillations when the drive's voice coil is slammed from inner to outer track, causing the drive to walk across the room. There are stories of this happening entirely due to heavy usage and disk thrashing, not just college pranksters seeing what the limits of physics are. Disks that weight one kg. and inkjet printers just aren't as much fun as the older stuff, one might think. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Jan 18 00:00:28 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: There is a small copper (berylium?) bracket on the bottom of the RD53 which connects the spindle to ground. Removing said bracket reduces the noise immensly, though I have been told by unreliable sources this will considerably shorten the life of the drive... My personal belief is the drive is near the end of its life anyway when it starts to whine, so removing the bracket doesn't do much of anything to it... You might try a little (tiny) spot of conductive grease betwixt the bracket and the spindle to try to quiet it down... clint PS dunno if the RD54 is the same as the RD53... Too lazy to get off my fat butt and go look :) On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I've got a newly re-functioning VAXStation 2000 which is equipped with an > RD54 hard drive. The system boots into Ultrix 3.1 however it is _very_ > loud. The drive has got a serious whine to it. I'm wondering if there is a > bering or a brush somewhere that I can lubricate to cut down on the noise! > > --Chuck > > > > From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Thu Jan 18 00:09:29 2001 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I've got a newly re-functioning VAXStation 2000 which is equipped with an > RD54 hard drive. The system boots into Ultrix 3.1 however it is _very_ > loud. The drive has got a serious whine to it. I'm wondering if there is a > bering or a brush somewhere that I can lubricate to cut down on the noise! > > --Chuck Sounds about like a first generation DC-9 revving up for roll out? I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by turning them upside-down. In my particular set up (old pee cee cases) they also run _much_ cooler. That might present mounting and cabling complications in your situation. YMMV. Bill From jimoaks at one.net Thu Jan 18 00:19:23 2001 From: jimoaks at one.net (Jim Oaks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Death by Poking In-Reply-To: <20010118060357.56651.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I was wondering if someone could help me identify a computer Im about to get. Im getting it from a friend and he has had it for along time and doesnt even remember when,where he got it. They only thing I have is a manual that says its a Interact Model R computer from Protecto. Does anyone have any info on this. Thanks Jim http://www.classicmag.net Preserving the Past for the Future From spamoff001 at excite.com Thu Jan 18 00:58:07 2001 From: spamoff001 at excite.com (Nono Spam) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Honeywell/Bull Terminals HDS 5 Message-ID: <4573167.979801090997.JavaMail.imail@swirly> From: Doug Stalker (doug@notme.com) Date: 07/21/99-11:37:42 PM Z Reply: Maybe This Applies............... HDS 7 setup access is bottom row of num. pad. - CTRL-, (comma) Setup left hand corner (gray key) - CTRL-. (period)Test Loop bottom row - CTRL- - (minus) Screen Test right hand corner _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 00:29:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I've got a newly re-functioning VAXStation 2000 which is equipped with an > RD54 hard drive. The system boots into Ultrix 3.1 however it is _very_ > loud. The drive has got a serious whine to it. I'm wondering if there is a > bering or a brush somewhere that I can lubricate to cut down on the noise! Nope, it's on it's way out. Enjoy it while you can :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 18 01:48:45 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117234431.02156a80@208.226.86.10> At 11:09 PM 1/17/01 -0700, Bill wrote: >Sounds about like a first generation DC-9 revving up for roll out? Yup. >I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by turning >them upside-down. In my particular set up (old pee cee cases) they also >run _much_ cooler. That might present mounting and cabling >complications in your situation. YMMV. Actually this is a VAXStation 2000 so turning it upside isn't a problem (nothing else cares about orientation) but alas it did not noticeably change the whine. I'm really torn by this little machine. On the one hand I sort of swore off MFM drive based systems and was sticking to Q-bus based VAXen in the collection, but now with the VS2000 I've got a bunch of the workstation versions as well (KA41 - KA49). Fortunately for me the desktop VAXes take up _much_ less room than the deskside variety, also the drive has Ultrix32 on it and its my only Ultrix based VAX (I've got Ultrix media for MIPS but not for VAX). I'm guessing that if I moved the jumper back I'd see it has some sort of frame buffer as well, perhaps it would bring up X even. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 00:33:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, William Fulmor wrote: > I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by > turning them upside-down. In my particular set up (old pee cee cases) > they also run _much_ cooler. That might present mounting and cabling > complications in your situation. YMMV. I can't say why (this is ignorant input :) but for some reason you're not supposed to run hard drives upside down. I'm sure some genius will pipe in now ;0) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 00:34:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Death by Poking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Jim Oaks wrote: > I was wondering if someone could help me identify a computer Im about > to get. Im getting it from a friend and he has had it for along time > and doesnt even remember when,where he got it. They only thing I have > is a manual that says its a Interact Model R computer from Protecto. > Does anyone have any info on this. I have an Interact Model 1. Is the Model R a console-type computer, like the Commodore 64 or TRS-80 Model 1? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 00:35:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Honeywell/Bull Terminals HDS 5 In-Reply-To: <4573167.979801090997.JavaMail.imail@swirly> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Nono Spam wrote: > From: Doug Stalker (doug@notme.com) > Date: 07/21/99-11:37:42 PM Z > > Reply: > Maybe This Applies............... > HDS 7 setup access is bottom row of num. pad. > - CTRL-, (comma) Setup > left hand corner (gray key) > - CTRL-. (period)Test Loop > bottom row > - CTRL- - (minus) Screen Test > right hand corner Wow, we seem to have intercepted some sort of coded message. First one to crack it gets a free VCF t-shirt! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Jan 18 01:54:44 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117234431.02156a80@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Jan 17, 2001 11:48:45 PM Message-ID: <200101180754.AAA25929@calico.litterbox.com> Could you set it up to netboot and copy the disk over before it croaks? If it was running VMS I'd suggest clustering it. I'm thinking the difference in performance between having it netboot and run against an NFS disk vs running against the mfm drive isn't going to be all that big. > > I'm really torn by this little machine. On the one hand I sort of swore off > MFM drive based systems and was sticking to Q-bus based VAXen in the > collection, but now with the VS2000 I've got a bunch of the workstation > versions as well (KA41 - KA49). Fortunately for me the desktop VAXes take > up _much_ less room than the deskside variety, also the drive has Ultrix32 > on it and its my only Ultrix based VAX (I've got Ultrix media for MIPS but > not for VAX). I'm guessing that if I moved the jumper back I'd see it has > some sort of frame buffer as well, perhaps it would bring up X even. > > --Chuck > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 18 02:18:24 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <200101180754.AAA25929@calico.litterbox.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117234431.02156a80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010118001558.02fb6630@208.226.86.10> At 12:54 AM 1/18/01 -0700, Jim wrote: >Could you set it up to netboot and copy the disk over before it croaks? >If it was running VMS I'd suggest clustering it. I'm thinking the difference >in performance between having it netboot and run against an NFS disk vs >running against the mfm drive isn't going to be all that big. Probably, except that I can't get my AUI transceiver connected to the D-15 connector and I don't have a thin-10BaseT adapter. If one of my TZ50's is an -FA I can probably tar everything off to a TK50 cart and manually haul it over. Alternatively I'm going to come up with some way to hook up the transceiver. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 18 02:40:59 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010117203637.02eb0d30@manatee.envirolink.org> References: <003801c08024$b727a2e0$7a769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >I just received a Xebec card of some kind. It is designed for an Apple ][ >series machine, say so on the card. It has a 37 pin connector attached to >the card via a ribbon cable. Is this a SCSI card? It is dated 1988. Any >help greatly appreciated!! I just bought a pair of them on eBay, a 25 pin and a 37 pin, and I believe they are for the Apple II hard drives called Sider's. Could be pre scsi, sasi or whatever. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 02:54:49 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? References: Message-ID: <008b01c0812c$5169b480$2798b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> My S/23 Service Manual states that two 8 inch drives were available, the 31SD which was a single sided FM only drive, and the 51TDF which was a double sided FM or MFM drive. The disks have 77 tracks per side, and data can be written on tracks 1 through 74, with 00 reserved for labeling and 75 and 76 for replacement. Both drives are hard sectored. FM disks can be formatted with 8, 15 or 26 tracks, with 512, 256 and 128 bytes per track respectively. For MFM the bytes per sector are doubled. Using 256 bytes per sector, this gives you from 284K to 985K per floppy depending on drive/floppy type. This data corresponds exactly to the data on the displaywriter disk drive found at : http://home.planet.nl/~tresmont/ibm-hall.htm Therefore, I think must use the same format. For what it's worth, the displaywriter disk drive looks almost identical to the 5246 unit that goes with the S/23. -W > I was told that it was the same as the System 36, and possibly 23 also. > We were talking about that when be got an old IBM disk archiver. I > haven't looked into it any further than that, though. > > > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > > > Does anyone know what disks format the IBM Display writer uses? > > > > Joe > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 18 03:00:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010118001558.02fb6630@208.226.86.10> References: <200101180754.AAA25929@calico.litterbox.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010117234431.02156a80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >At 12:54 AM 1/18/01 -0700, Jim wrote: >>Could you set it up to netboot and copy the disk over before it croaks? >>If it was running VMS I'd suggest clustering it. I'm thinking the difference >>in performance between having it netboot and run against an NFS disk vs >>running against the mfm drive isn't going to be all that big. > >Probably, except that I can't get my AUI transceiver connected to the D-15 >connector and I don't have a thin-10BaseT adapter. If one of my TZ50's is I have both some skinny AUI/10bt things, and some coax to 10bt converters. Email me directly if interested. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Jan 18 04:13:30 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:14 2005 Subject: Aquarius and Memotech MTX512 Message-ID: <01Jan18.101332gmt.46104@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> >>My friend has a Mattel Aquarius computer on eBay - thought I'd mention it since it's still cheap and may be of interest to someone that collects older machines. It's item 1208196262 if you're inclined to check it out. I believe it's a fairly complete setup and in good condition. I can however attest to the fact that the seller is very repautable and very good to work with. Hehe - I found one yesterday in a thrift store along with another ebay perennial, the Binatone TV Master MK10 pong, boxed :) The same shop also has the following, all for (I guess) between ukp10 and ukp30: Acorn Archimedes 3000 with monitor Amstrad PCW9512 Amstrad PCW9512+ Amstrad PCW8256 (single drive) Amstrad PCW8256 (twin drive) Amstrad PCW8xxx (it's in a box so I can't see it too well) Atari 520STe Atari 2600 (PacMan edition, boxed) Atari 7800 with PSU and both controllers *with* thumbpads still intact Amiga 500+ Victor 286PC Amstrad 386 PC (Can't remember the designation) Apple keyboard for a compact Mac If anyone's interested please contact me off list - the place is only 5 minutes from here. As an aside, I picked up a Memotech MTX512 on monday (along with a boxed Color Genie (), boxed JVC HV-7GB MSX and Toshiba HX10) and it's a really odd machine. For a start its 3 1/2 inches longer than my other MTX512 and has no stickers on it whatsoever apart from the name label, not even port designations on the back. Inside looks pretty normal, except the board is right on the left to allow access for the expansion slot but they've left the keyboard on the right, and its an MTX500 keyboard. Haven't tested it yet but I was told it worked. As luck would have it I found Mr. Memotech himself down in London but he hasn't got back to me yet! Oh, anyone got a spare manual for a Color Genie? :) cheers -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0:OK, 0:1 From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 04:43:39 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <20010118033104.56191.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010118033104.56191.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I've got an Amiga external SCSI drive made by Tecmar that has a 37-pin >connector. Don't have the interface to go with it, though. It's a >modular extruded aluminum case (like some modems) with a 3.5" MFM drive >inside and some flavor of SCSI<->MFM bridge card to do the dirty work. > >Mine came from university surplus, so I have never seen it operate, FWIW. Is this the Tecmar T-disk? I've got a 20meg version and it requires a sidecar for the A1000, which also provides a 1meg memory expansion. It has it's own CPU that branches off to both the sidecar and the disk drive and there are a number of files that have to be added to the A1000's Workbench disk in order to access it. It won't boot from the Tecmar. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 06:26:47 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Aquarius and Memotech MTX512 In-Reply-To: <01Jan18.101332gmt.46104@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:13:30 +0000 Adrian Graham wrote: > Hehe - I found one yesterday in a thrift store along with another ebay > perennial, the Binatone TV Master MK10 pong, boxed :) Ah, Binatone, whatever happened to them? > The same shop also has the following, all for (I guess) between ukp10 and > ukp30: ...long list of classic machines deleted... So how come the charity shops in Bristol aren't full of Good Stuff like this??? They seem to be scared of anything with a mains plug on it! Having said that, I did find two Amstrad PCW8512s and an Acorn Electron in a junk shop the other day. Eight quid for the lot! -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jan 18 07:43:58 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010117102630.35e751b0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010118084358.3b473e48@mailhost.intellistar.net> Don, Thanks for the info. It's not that important. I found a new sealed box of Displaywriter disks from IBM and was just wondering what format they were. I'm guessing that these may be double density since the the boxed is marked "2D" inside of a circle. Joe At 11:29 AM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > >> Does anyone know what disks format the IBM Display writer uses? > >It is a bit of an oddball, Joe - 8" SSSD, but with 256 byte SD >sectors. At the moment, I cannot tell you how many per track. There >may possibly be a DS version, but I have no information on that aside >from an oblique hint that it might exist. > >I think that I have some around here - if I can resurrect them - if more >information is important. > > - don > > > > From mwp at acm.org Thu Jan 18 06:54:58 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) References: Message-ID: <003301c0814d$dd7d1180$0200a8c0@swbell.net> Sellam, There is some information on the Interact at http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/otherpag.htm It does appear to be a console machine a la the C-64, but a bit less powerful. I remember wanting one of these when I was a kid and seeing the Protecto ads. FWIW, in high school, I actually scraped enough money together to buy an APF Imagination Machine when they were liquidating them, but they were out of stock and I never got one. (They did issue a refund.) And I still have a thing for orphaned machines! Hope the link helps--it's the only Interact information I've ever run across on the WWW. --Mike Passer From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jan 18 08:33:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought In-Reply-To: <3A66623C.BC09A876@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010118093346.34df78f6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Ross, What kind of keys does it use? The Motorola and Intel SBCS use individual square switches and square keytops and the whole thing is only about 1/2" high. I found a small supply of new ones in a surplus store here. If your KIM uses the same ones I see how many are left and get them for you. Joe At 07:25 PM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: >I have a partially-functional KIM-1 (date code 0378) I'd like to >restore. >(And if anyone has one in good condition to sell, I'm also interested.) > >Currently, there are two things wrong, and I'm looking for general >advice on what if anything can be done to fix them: > >1. The keypad is pretty flakey. Several keys register erratically, >and when they do, they bounce and report multiple times. >The '0' key is particularly bad in this respect. >The 'PC' key is utterly caved in. But all but the PC key >registers in with varying degrees of retries and effort. > >I'm handy with soldering, and could remove the keypad, but >don't have any idea how to clean / fix a keypad, let alone repair >any broken springs, contacts, etc. Can it even be done? Has >anyone here even seen the inside of one of these? > >2. The cassette interface doesn't read. It writes fine, the +12 supply >is >showing up where it's expected (pin 8 of LM311) and +11-ish on the >565 PLL, but I have no idea what the "normal" voltages on each pin >are to assist in further troubleshooting. All I'm sure about is that >the >output of the LM311 is not anything like what's expected, and the >trimpot doesn't affect the PLL frequency one iota according to my scope. > >Any thoughts on how to tell what section is bad? > >Thanks for any ideas out there. > >In the meantime, I am thinking of wiring an outboard keypad and hooking >it >to the application connector. Hand-wired, of course. Where else would >you find a 3x7 matrix? > >. > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 18 07:42:00 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: operating system integrity (coming from Nuke Redmond) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D80@TEGNTSERVER> > In <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D72@TEGNTSERVER>, on 01/17/01 > at 04:54 PM, Douglas Quebbeman > said: > > Yea! Object Desktop is GOD'S OWN TOY. I love it! They ported it to > Windos, but it caused lots of stability problems. The OS/2 version runs > beautifully and I've been addicted to it for years. I have to agree with the others in this thread... Windows is inherently not stable, while OS/2 is.... thus Object Desktop on Windows doesn't CAUSE instability, it merely illuminates it. I am biased, however, as I'm a Stardock Avatar. > My favorite component is the virtual desktop feature. I couldn't live > without it. > > The Windows version is a program. The OS/2 version is not. It is a > collection of Workplace Shell objects simply taking advantage of the OS/2 > Gui's object inheritance and polymorphism. Pretty darn impressive. True, Windows doesn't provide the underpinnings to do what was possible under OS/2. My two most-used features are ObjectDrivescan and ObjectEdit; however, I really do love the eye candy (Windowblinds, WindowFX, DesktopX, and ObjectBar). Regards, -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 18 08:42:05 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) In-Reply-To: <003301c0814d$dd7d1180$0200a8c0@swbell.net> from Michael Passer at "Jan 18, 1 06:54:58 am" Message-ID: <200101181442.GAA10586@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Sellam, > > There is some information on the Interact at > http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/otherpag.htm > > It does appear to be a console machine a la > the C-64, but a bit less powerful. A *bit* less, yes ;-) What an intriguing machine. Incidentally, did anyone read the link pointing to Bill Gates' comments on the M100 on that page? http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/bill.htm It actually makes me kind of like the guy. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Good day for romance, but try a single person this time. ---------- From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 08:53:16 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) In-Reply-To: <200101181442.GAA10586@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:42:05 -0800 (PST) Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Incidentally, did anyone read the link pointing to Bill Gates' comments > on the M100 on that page? > > http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/bill.htm > > It actually makes me kind of like the guy. Yes, there's a point here he's actually surprised when the computer works. Just like us, when we use certain computers and software... And just to get back onto the topic of classic computers, I have a Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 at home (and a manual for it). But I don't have the optional disk drive -- anybody know anything about them? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 18 09:00:04 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Good Money, was Re: SCSI? card identification References: Message-ID: <000b01c0815f$57220f20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've got one of the drives and the attachment cable available. I have no way of knowing whether it works at the moment, however. I bought the thing for the box and power supply. If you don't mind providing your own box/PSU, it should be easy enough to check out. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: Re: Good Money, was Re: SCSI? card identification > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Arthur Clark wrote: > > > Thanks Louis! Good money awaits anyone willing to sell me a working Sider > > hard drive and cable for this card. > > The cable is a ribbon cable that terminates on a connector that a shielded > external cable connects between that and the HD. Niether will be easy to > find. Although I have found at least two Sider's in the past couple years > at thrift stores and a local surplus electronics store. One worked just > fine and I use it at the VCF as part of my "cashier" terminal. The other > was dead. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 18 10:07:45 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117215247.0366d1e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Chuck, this might sound a bit odd, but have you tried flipping the drive upside down (powered off) and then powering it back up again to see if the noise diminishes? I had an old CMI(?) 20MB drive that needed this to _not_ squeal like it was being killed. :) g. On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 09:34 PM 1/17/01 -0800, Don wrote: > >Chuck, if it really is an RD54 - aka Maxtor XT2190 - the motor is > >internal and inaccessible. > > Sigh, says Maxtor 2190 on the label. Hmmmm, I suppose I could take apart > but probably won't, the noise is pretty incredible though. > > --Chuck > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 18 09:28:59 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) In-Reply-To: from John Honniball at "Jan 18, 1 02:53:16 pm" Message-ID: <200101181528.HAA10516@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And just to get back onto the topic of classic computers, I > have a Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 at home (and a manual for > it). But I don't have the optional disk drive -- anybody > know anything about them? I have one for my M200, but after some commiseration with Roger M., we determined that the reason it wasn't booting was because I don't have a DOS disk for it. Therefore, I've never seen it actually operate. Nice looking drive, though -- it actually communicates over the RS-232 port. Very stylish. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The moon may be smaller than the Earth, but it's farther away. ------------- From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Jan 18 04:37:08 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010117212211.030c6eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20010118153606.BHJR6201.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:23:44 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Chuck McManis > Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I've got a newly re-functioning VAXStation 2000 which is equipped with an > RD54 hard drive. The system boots into Ultrix 3.1 however it is _very_ > loud. The drive has got a serious whine to it. I'm wondering if there is a > bering or a brush somewhere that I can lubricate to cut down on the noise! > > --Chuck > Sad.... Violin playing weepy tunes.... that hd is dying. There is no external static discharge spring touching that spindle button. That hd is whining/squawking because heads are crashing! Grab the data back before that hd finally dies for good. Cheers, Wizard From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Jan 18 09:40:40 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) In-Reply-To: <200101181442.GAA10586@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20010118154131.WDYK6045.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Thanks! Bill talks kind of like Tonto. I've never really known what Gate's personal contribution to coding has been. Did he write on Mbasic, Msdos, or any of the Windos's? When did he quit coding? Regards, Jeff In <200101181442.GAA10586@stockholm.ptloma.edu>, on 01/18/01 at 10:40 AM, Cameron Kaiser said: >http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/bill.htm -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 18 09:58:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 floppy drive In-Reply-To: <200101181528.HAA10516@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010118095509.01d2ad10@pc> I've got one. I was so cool in 1987 or so, carrying the M100 and a disk drive, writing articles on airplanes. I even remember using CompuServe via the M100. It uses the serial port. I seem to remember utilities for the PC that pretend to be a disk drive for an M100 in this fashion, as well as tools that would let the drive connect to the PC. I think the drive came with a disk containing a utility or two. - John From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Thu Jan 18 09:59:16 2001 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, William Fulmor wrote: > > > I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by > > turning them upside-down. > I can't say why (this is ignorant input :) but for some reason you're not > supposed to run hard drives upside down. I'm sure some genius will pipe > in now ;0) Maybe the earlier models had inferior magnetic glue and the bits fell off. The _XT2000 Product Specification and OEM Manual_ (c) 1986 section 6.2 states: "The XT2000 may be mounted in any orientation... " In any event, mine have been running downside up (quietly) for over 3 years now. Perhaps the howl stopped because they run so much cooler when the electronics are vented. Bill > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Jan 18 10:15:59 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E365F@MAIL10> I remember reading somewhere that Gates' last real project was the BASIC in the Radio Shack Model 100 (1983??) ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: THETechnoid@home.com [mailto:THETechnoid@home.com] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 10:41 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Interact (was Death by Poking) Thanks! Bill talks kind of like Tonto. I've never really known what Gate's personal contribution to coding has been. Did he write on Mbasic, Msdos, or any of the Windos's? When did he quit coding? Regards, Jeff In <200101181442.GAA10586@stockholm.ptloma.edu>, on 01/18/01 at 10:40 AM, Cameron Kaiser said: >http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/bill.htm -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Jan 18 10:28:53 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 floppy drive Message-ID: <62.b198da7.279873c5@aol.com> In a message dated Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:19:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, John Foust writes: << I've got one. I was so cool in 1987 or so, carrying the M100 and a disk drive, writing articles on airplanes. I even remember using CompuServe via the M100. It uses the serial port. I seem to remember utilities for the PC that pretend to be a disk drive for an M100 in this fashion, as well as tools that would let the drive connect to the PC. I think the drive came with a disk containing a utility or two. - John >> Wish I did! I just got my first M100 this week! Picked up a 32k m100 in pristine condition with the manual (no case or drives though) for $10. 4 AA bateries later and it was running great. Have to say these are really cool little computers! -Linc Fessenden. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 11:05:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification Message-ID: <20010118170551.35186.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I've got an Amiga external SCSI drive made by Tecmar that has a 37-pin > >connector... > Is this the Tecmar T-disk? I've got a 20meg version and it > requires a sidecar for the A1000, which also provides a 1meg memory > expansion. That's the one. > It has it's own CPU that branches off to both the sidecar > and the disk drive and there are a number of files that have to be > added to the A1000's Workbench disk in order to access it. It won't > boot from the Tecmar. That was absolutely typical of Amiga 1000 disk interfaces. I had a "WEDGE" for a long time - an 8-bit ISA adapter that came with drivers for the Western Digital WX-1 interface. It was replaced with a Microbotics StarBoard - mine was fully loaded - clock, 2Mb RAM and SCSI (the "StarDrive"). I was able to go from two ST225 drives (40Mb) to one Maxtor LXT213S (200Mb drive from a SPARCstation) with that upgrade. Between the two interfaces, I was set from about 1987 until I replaced the A1000 with an A3000 in 1993 (it lasted until I brought an A4000 home with me from N.Z. after replacing the 220/50Hz PSU with the guts from a PC PSU, around 1996) I still have my premiere copy of _Amiga World_ that has the T-Drive and the rest of the peripherals advertised *months* before they were ready to ship. They were billed as the first Amiga hard disks, but ISTR they took so long to finalize their product that there were several offerings out there when you could _finally_ buy one. Infamous vaporware in the early Amiga days. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From hellige at mediacen.navy.mil Thu Jan 18 11:51:04 2001 From: hellige at mediacen.navy.mil (Hellige, Jeff SK2) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 floppy drive Message-ID: <01Jan18.125231est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >It uses the serial port. I seem to remember utilities for >the PC that pretend to be a disk drive for an M100 in this >fashion, as well as tools that would let the drive connect >to the PC. I think the drive came with a disk containing >a utility or two. TS-DOS, available from Club 100, can be either disk or ROM based. Desklink, available on the Club 100 web site as 'DL-ARC.EXE', also includes limited RAM based versions that can be transferred to the 100/102 using a null modem cable. The Desklink archive is what I use to turn my 486 laptop or Mac clone into a fileserver for my Model 102. Once you use Desklink to transfer the RAM-based TS-DOS loader into the 100/102, you should then be able to access the portable disk drive. Jeff From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Jan 18 12:45:24 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: How to clone an IDE drive (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010118134524.3137178c@mailhost.intellistar.net> FWIW: Last weekend, Staples had an ad in the local paper for a 20Gb drive for $99 and they'd give you a free 32 Mb SIMM with it. I bought one of the drives (a Maxtor 32047) and just finished installing it in my daughter's Pentium II box that's running WinBlows 98. The software that came with the drive copied everything (about 17 Gb of files) from the old drive to the new one with no difficulties in about an hour. The only problem that I had was that the copy program wouldn't work with both drives on the primary disk controller channel. I had to put one on the secondary channel and one of the primary. After it finished copying, I removed the old drive and installed the new one in it's place, reconnected the two CD drives to the secondary channel and rebooted the machine with NO changes or problems. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 12:29:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Pepsi (was: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 17, 1 04:23:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 655 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/51f824e0/attachment.ksh From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 11:36:53 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need online TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual Message-ID: Does anyone know where a TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual might reside online? Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 11:45:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) In-Reply-To: <003301c0814d$dd7d1180$0200a8c0@swbell.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Michael Passer wrote: > There is some information on the Interact at > http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/otherpag.htm Ah yes. I have a couple of these. Interesting machines, they are. The above web page says it has an 8088 CPU but of course this is wrong (the machine is circa 1978). It actually runs off an 8080. I have a few tapes for it. Someone scored a nice one at either the last VCF or the one before (or was it at a local ham fest? anyway...) It came with a box of cassettes (must've been 20 of them or so). > I remember wanting one of these when I was a kid and > seeing the Protecto ads. FWIW, in high school, I actually > scraped enough money together to buy an APF > Imagination Machine when they were liquidating them, > but they were out of stock and I never got one. (They > did issue a refund.) And I still have a thing for orphaned > machines! Too bad. The APF Imagination Machine is one of the hardest classic computers to find. One once slipped through my fingers, but I did end up with the external disk drive, which is perhaps even more rare :) One day I'll find one. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Jan 18 13:06:11 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, William Fulmor wrote: > > > I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by > > turning them upside-down. In my particular set up (old pee cee cases) > > they also run _much_ cooler. That might present mounting and cabling > > complications in your situation. YMMV. > > I can't say why (this is ignorant input :) but for some reason you're not > supposed to run hard drives upside down. I'm sure some genius will pipe > in now ;0) Well... I don't know about the "genius" part, but with a lead in like that I could not resist... Back in the Shugart days, (and no, I did *not* misspell "Seagate") when I asked about that one time I was told that the spindle bearings were not 'stressed' properly for operation with the drive upside-down. Now, if that was supposed to mean that the spindle might shift, or the whole thing would fall out into the sealed enclosure was never really explained. But what would you expect back then? (...when a *big* drive was 5Mb and cost $3K) -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 12:21:23 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface Message-ID: I need to know where the serial port connector is on a TRS-80 Expansion Interface. I have two of them. One has its ports labeled, and one of the ports is labeled "MODEM" but it is simply an edge connector. Is this the serial port? If so, what's the pinout? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 12:53:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs In-Reply-To: <1952.208.227.9.12.979780582.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jan 17, 1 05:16:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2077 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/124aace3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 13:20:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 17, 1 10:33:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1050 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/ad9d7150/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 13:05:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCSI? card identification In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010117183929.007bf6f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> from "Edwin P. Groot" at Jan 17, 1 06:39:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/d68664b7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 13:34:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Aquarius and Memotech MTX512 In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Jan 18, 1 12:26:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 708 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/91c9e3f6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 13:13:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Death by Poking In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Jan 17, 1 11:08:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3432 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/d26ef190/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 13:16:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Death by Poking In-Reply-To: <20010118060357.56651.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Jan 17, 1 10:03:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/a85d6c0c/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Jan 18 11:44:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: VAX 4000/VLC prom password? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010118114200.02b1dd68@208.226.86.129> Hello ClassicCmp and Port-vax, A friend of mine just picked up a VAX 4000/VLC (on my recommendation as a nice small VAX) and I thought it was broken, because the 'sho dev' produced "illegal command." Turns out it has had a password set, but of course the seller didn't know that. Anyway, how does one tell the VAX to "forget" that it has a password set? Is there a jumper or something somewhere? --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 18 13:44:56 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need online TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Does anyone know where a TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual might reside > online? "Owner's" or "Service"? I gave mine to Eric -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 18 13:51:51 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, William Fulmor wrote: > > > I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by > > turning them upside-down. In my particular set up (old pee cee cases) > > they also run _much_ cooler. That might present mounting and cabling > > complications in your situation. YMMV. > > I can't say why (this is ignorant input :) but for some reason you're not > supposed to run hard drives upside down. I'm sure some genius will pipe > in now ;0) But, of course! In the 'early' days, that was certainly true. However, in the era of the XT8000 series - approximately the same as the XT2190 - the documentation stated that it could be mounted in any position. They did recommend not facing the circuit board towards a switch mode power supply as some of them had rather high electromagnetic radiation, though. Now days, it seems anything goes. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 18 13:56:36 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: <008b01c0812c$5169b480$2798b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > My S/23 Service Manual states that two 8 inch drives > were available, the 31SD which was a single sided FM > only drive, and the 51TDF which was a double sided FM > or MFM drive. The disks have 77 tracks per side, and > data can be written on tracks 1 through 74, with 00 > reserved for labeling and 75 and 76 for replacement. > > Both drives are hard sectored. FM disks can be > formatted with 8, 15 or 26 tracks, with 512, 256 and > 128 bytes per track respectively. For MFM the bytes > per sector are doubled. I believe that you mean SOFT sectored, as the number of sectors per track in a hard sector disk is determined by the disk and is only changeable by using a disk with a different hole pattern. FYI, 5.25" disks came in both 10 and 16 sector hole patterns, while 8" were 32 hole only to the best of my knowledge. - don > Using 256 bytes per sector, this gives you from 284K to > 985K per floppy depending on drive/floppy type. This > data corresponds exactly to the data on the > displaywriter disk drive found at : > > http://home.planet.nl/~tresmont/ibm-hall.htm > > Therefore, I think must use the same format. For what > it's worth, the displaywriter disk drive looks almost > identical to the 5246 unit that goes with the S/23. > > -W > > > > I was told that it was the same as the System 36, and > possibly 23 also. > > We were talking about that when be got an old IBM > disk archiver. I > > haven't looked into it any further than that, though. > > > > > > On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know what disks format the IBM > Display writer uses? > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > From archer at topnow.com Thu Jan 18 13:52:13 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Pepsi (was: Drive By Pokings... Was first programs References: Message-ID: <3A67496D.E6C63B93@topnow.com> You would think the first principle of a consumer device of any sort is that nothing you can do within the bounds of reason should cause it to blow up. Not so with the Compucolor computer. There were a range of settings in the video chip which could cause the chip to gradually overheat and destroy itself. Or maybe it was the monitor... it was years ago, and my memory is fuzzy, but I think the warning applied to the IC. I think one BASIC poke was all it took. Does anybody remember the whole story (or care)? -- Ross Tony Duell wrote: > > > the HP85 manual where it said something like: > > > 'There is no way you can damage the computer through use of the > > > keyboard'. > > > That was the right thing to say to (somewhat shy) me. > > > > I have always reassured my programming students that nothing that they > > accidentally enter through the keyboard of their computers would actually > > DAMAGE the computer. One wiseguy said,"I entered a Pepsi." > > Didn't one of the Apple ][ manuals (Applesoft Tutorial) contain a > statement like (and this is from memory..) > > 'You cannot damage the Apple by typing. Unless you type with a hammer. So > feel free to experiement. With your fingers'. > > -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Jan 18 14:05:52 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I need to know where the serial port connector is on a TRS-80 Expansion > Interface. I have two of them. One has its ports labeled, and one of the > ports is labeled "MODEM" but it is simply an edge connector. Is this the > serial port? If so, what's the pinout? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! The connector is, indeed, simply an edge connector. Sorry, I don't have the pinout handy; check with Eric. The serial port was an add-on board for the expansion interface. It resides in a compartment in the top of the E.I. There were chronic problems with poor contacts connecting the serial port board to the E.I. Some folks soldered it, some wedged chunks of foam rubber or other alien materials into the compartment, some fashioned elegant spring steel brackets in an attempt to improve the connections. For use with serial printers, there were also parallel to serial converters, and TRS2332 and GPA which connected to cassette port and expansion bus, respectively. (There are some GPA's in the junk that you got from me.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars From port-vax at vaxpower.de Thu Jan 18 14:09:29 2001 From: port-vax at vaxpower.de (Michael Kukat) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: VAX 4000/VLC prom password? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010118114200.02b1dd68@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: Hi ! On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > A friend of mine just picked up a VAX 4000/VLC (on my recommendation as a > nice small VAX) and I thought it was broken, because the 'sho dev' produced > "illegal command." Turns out it has had a password set, but of course the > seller didn't know that. Anyway, how does one tell the VAX to "forget" that > it has a password set? Is there a jumper or something somewhere? You could try to pull the NVRAM chip out of the socket and put it on some metal surface (e.g. the power supply). With a bit of luck, all data gets lost, with this the password should go... Not a fine version (son't shor-circuit the chip for more than 1-3 seconds), but it helped several times now. ...Michael -- In TV, there are bluescreens to put a faked reality behind a real played scene, in Windows, you sometimes see the real scene, when the fakes go out for lunch. From george_moraes at lakelabs.com Thu Jan 18 14:20:17 2001 From: george_moraes at lakelabs.com (george_moraes@lakelabs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need online TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A6693A40000072C@mail01.san.yahoo.com> -- Original Message -- > >Does anyone know where a TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual might reside >online? > >Thanks! > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > Hi Sellam. Are you looking for a website where you can put the manual, or are you looking the manual itself ? On the first case, you can use my website, I have the domain, but only use hidden directories to pass stuff to my friends. I can fix if you need. Regards. G. OBS: Quite active list, I liked .... From george_moraes at lakelabs.com Thu Jan 18 14:34:43 2001 From: george_moraes at lakelabs.com (george_moraes@lakelabs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: HP85 Manuals and Modules. In-Reply-To: <3A67496D.E6C63B93@topnow.com> Message-ID: <3A6693A40000075D@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Hi. I just bought an HP85 ( in a surplus), and the machine works fine, even the termal printer. Unfortunately the machine didn't come with any module. Does anyone have or know where I can find the I/O Modules e/or RS232 ????? Regards. George Nelson. From antonio.carlini at riverstonenet.com Thu Jan 18 14:58:16 2001 From: antonio.carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: VAX 4000/VLC prom password? Message-ID: <29752A74B6C5D211A4920090273CA3DC26E77D@new-exc1.ctron.com> >A friend of mine just picked up a VAX 4000/VLC (on my recommendation as a >nice small VAX) and I thought it was broken, because the 'sho dev' produced >"illegal command." Turns out it has had a password set, but of course the >seller didn't know that. Anyway, how does one tell the VAX to "forget" that >it has a password set? Is there a jumper or something somewhere? Turn off the power. Find the two triangular solder pads near the TOY (it has a clock face printed on it) and short these together with a screwdriver. This is from the VLC/4k60 Condensed Service Information so I assume it applies to both. Antonio arcarlini@iee.org From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Jan 18 15:00:23 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need NeXT 1100 info Message-ID: <97.10098e00.2798b367@aol.com> Hi; Looking for info on NeXt 1100 Pizza Boxes. What is the processor? Memory? Color/Mono? HD? CD? Collectability? Things to look out for? Accessories needed? Paxton From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Jan 18 15:58:16 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam, this might be an obvious question, but does the EI have the serial port option board installed? There is a plastic cover that's held down by two screws (I _think_) on the top of the EI that covers the little serial board. If it _is_ installed and it hasn't been modified, it would be a good idea to pull it and clean the connectors on both the serial board and the EI since they're just a pressure fit with no real connector. The edge connector is the serial port. There is also an edge connector that brings out the parallel port lines. You can figure out which is which by tracing the lines on the board. I'm pretty sure the serial connector comes out the left side as you face the EI. g. On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I need to know where the serial port connector is on a TRS-80 Expansion > Interface. I have two of them. One has its ports labeled, and one of the > ports is labeled "MODEM" but it is simply an edge connector. Is this the > serial port? If so, what's the pinout? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 15:25:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 18, 1 10:21:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2114 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/52b80a7a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 15:26:50 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need online TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 18, 1 11:44:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 358 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010118/a2b2c9ba/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 15:49:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need NeXT 1100 info In-Reply-To: <97.10098e00.2798b367@aol.com> References: <97.10098e00.2798b367@aol.com> Message-ID: >Looking for info on NeXt 1100 Pizza Boxes. What is the processor? Memory? >Color/Mono? HD? CD? Collectability? Things to look out for? Accessories >needed? The N1100 should be the mono NeXTstation with either the 25mhz or 33mhz 68040 cpu, the cool looking mono Megapixel monitor, non-ADB keyboard, mouse, and soundbox. Typically, they could be had with hard disks of anywhere from 250 to 400meg and 16 to 32meg of RAM. There were plenty of peripherals planned for the NeXT systems, but few actually made it to market. The main ones that did are the NeXT CD-ROM, laser printer, and inkjet printer. Overall, they're a nice system with an interesting OS. According to thier literature, both mono stations carried the N1100 model number, while both Color stations carried the N1200 model. There's usually a sticker on the front/right corner. If it simply says 'NeXTstation' then it has the 25mhz CPU in it. If it says 'Turbo' it has the 33mhz. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 15:06:57 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I need to know where the serial port connector is on a TRS-80 Expansion > > Interface. I have two of them. One has its ports labeled, and one of the > > ports is labeled "MODEM" but it is simply an edge connector. Is this the > > serial port? If so, what's the pinout? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > The connector is, indeed, simply an edge connector. Sorry, I don't have > the pinout handy; check with Eric. > > The serial port was an add-on board for the expansion interface. It > resides in a compartment in the top of the E.I. Dang, I was afraid of that. Ok then, does anyone have any EI's with the serial daughterboard, or any serial daughterboards, for sale? The two EI's don't have the board. I need these ASAP!! Please reply to if you've got any. Thanks, Fred! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 15:08:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Need online TRS-80 Expansion Interface manual In-Reply-To: <3A6693A40000072C@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 george_moraes@lakelabs.com wrote: > Are you looking for a website where you can put the manual, or are you > looking the manual itself ? On the first case, you can use my website, > I have the domain, but only use hidden directories to pass stuff to my > friends. I can fix if you need. Hi George! I'm looking for the manual online. I'm sure I have it in my collection but, as with everything else, it's buried :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 15:09:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:15 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > Sellam, this might be an obvious question, but does the EI have the serial > port option board installed? There is a plastic cover that's held down by > two screws (I _think_) on the top of the EI that covers the little serial > board. If it _is_ installed and it hasn't been modified, it would be a > good idea to pull it and clean the connectors on both the serial board and > the EI since they're just a pressure fit with no real connector. Nope, niether of mine have the serial port option board. So I need two ASAP! If you have one to sell, please reply to . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From louiss at gate.net Thu Jan 18 16:59:37 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200101182259.RAA197678@flathead.gate.net> Well, there is no RS-232C port with the basic interface. This requires a card to be installed in the bay on top of the interface. If you have this card installed, the signals appear at the "Expansion Board Card Edge" which is in the middle of the front of the interface. The card edge is 40 pin. The following are the main signals an pins: 18-TD; 20-SGND; 22-RD; 30-CD; 32-CTS; 34-DTR; 36-RTS; 38-RI; 40-DSR. Louis On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:21:23 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: * *I need to know where the serial port connector is on a TRS-80 Expansion *Interface. I have two of them. One has its ports labeled, and one of the *ports is labeled "MODEM" but it is simply an edge connector. Is this the *serial port? If so, what's the pinout? * *Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! * *Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival *----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- *International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * * From louiss at gate.net Thu Jan 18 17:05:06 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Questions about TRS-80 Expansion Interface Message-ID: <200101182305.SAA35476@shuswap.gate.net> Well, there is no RS-232C port with the basic interface. This requires a card to be installed in the bay on top of the interface. If you have this card installed, the signals appear at the "Expansion Board Card Edge" which is in the middle of the front of the interface. The card edge is 40 pin. The following are the main signals an pins: 18-TD; 20-SGND; 22-RD; 30-CD; 32-CTS; 34-DTR; 36-RTS; 38-RI; 40-DSR. Louis On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:21:23 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: * *I need to know where the serial port connector is on a TRS-80 Expansion *Interface. I have two of them. One has its ports labeled, and one of the *ports is labeled "MODEM" but it is simply an edge connector. Is this the *serial port? If so, what's the pinout? * *Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! * *Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival *----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- *International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * * From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 17:31:47 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? Message-ID: Errrm, I have 8" hard-sector disks.. they are used by my Wang 2200MVP.. which would mean the Nicolet 1080 possibly also uses hard-sector floppies, since they share the same floppy disk drives, Shugart 9xx, can't remember the number offhand. The DisplayWriter uses the 31SD. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 18 17:47:22 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: VAX prom password? References: <29752A74B6C5D211A4920090273CA3DC26E77D@new-exc1.ctron.com> Message-ID: <000b01c081a9$0185b590$0100a8c0@jack> Anybody know the trick on how to reset the system account password on a VAX 3100? how does one tell the VAX to > "forget" that > >it has a password set? Is there a jumper or something somewhere? > > Turn off the power. > > Find the two triangular solder pads near > the TOY (it has a clock face printed > on it) and short these together with > a screwdriver. > > This is from the VLC/4k60 Condensed Service Information so > I assume it applies to both. > > Antonio > > arcarlini@iee.org > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 17:44:54 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Dutch auction for TRS-80 Model II's In-Reply-To: <200101182305.SAA35476@shuswap.gate.net> References: <200101182305.SAA35476@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: Wow...there's actually a dutch auction for 4 TRS-80 Model II's on eBay at the moment....no reserve at that. I've no connection to the seller but found it interesting since auctions for multiples of that type of hardware is fairly uncommon. The URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208570093 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Jan 18 17:47:25 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? References: Message-ID: <002f01c081a9$02c20620$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Unless you mean drives that have sector hole sensors around the exterior of the diskette, it makes no difference, since the index sensor is the one that does the work. Any drive that can do hard sectoring can do soft sectoring as well. Drives that lack the sector separator can't support hard sectoring, though, but that often can be added, as many drives have the component sites on the PCB even though they may not be populated. There probably are exceptions, but I don't remember any. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Format for IBM display writer disks?? > Errrm, I have 8" hard-sector disks.. they are used by my Wang 2200MVP.. > which would mean the Nicolet 1080 possibly also uses hard-sector floppies, > since they share the same floppy disk drives, Shugart 9xx, can't remember > the number offhand. The DisplayWriter uses the 31SD. > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 18 17:43:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 Message-ID: <003d01c081a9$77e3fc60$e2759a8d@ajp166> From: William Fulmor >I've had very good luck shutting up XT2190's and RD54's simply by turning >them upside-down. In my particular set up (old pee cee cases) they also >run _much_ cooler. That might present mounting and cabling >complications in your situation. YMMV. If turning it is a fix then flip the MV2000, they are rather small anyway. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 18 17:41:39 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 Message-ID: <003c01c081a9$77452450$e2759a8d@ajp166> From: Don Maslin >Chuck, if it really is an RD54 - aka Maxtor XT2190 - the motor is >internal and inaccessible. There is, however, a Priam 519 that has the >same parameters as the Maxtor, and it has rotating parts external to the >disk housing. I do not know whether DEC used Priam or not, though. the likely hood is its a Maxtor XT2190, and yes some are very LOUD. They do seem to keep working even then. the usual source of the noise is internal bearing being flatspotted due to shock or the motor really working hard to spin the platter. Make sure the 12V is! Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 18 17:47:52 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 Message-ID: <003e01c081a9$786c1820$e2759a8d@ajp166> From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) >There is a small copper (berylium?) bracket on the bottom of the RD53 >which connects the spindle to ground. Removing said bracket reduces Only if its a RD53, a Micropolus 1325, yes removing the static drain does invite a minor headto media snap. Better to move or lube with a tiny bit of graphite. >will considerably shorten the life of the drive... My personal belief >is the drive is near the end of its life anyway when it starts to whine, >so removing the bracket doesn't do much of anything to it... RD53s generally suffer from heat, keep em cool and they do better. Same for RD54s. I have a RD54 that screams, I've been waiting for it to fail for the last 5 years...it hasn't. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 18 17:54:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: SCreaming RD54 aka Maxtor 2190 Message-ID: <00b901c081ab$92b2dc80$e2759a8d@ajp166> From: Jim Strickland >Could you set it up to netboot and copy the disk over before it croaks? >If it was running VMS I'd suggest clustering it. I'm thinking the difference >in performance between having it netboot and run against an NFS disk vs >running against the mfm drive isn't going to be all that big. Check and see if it has DECNET on it and copy the disk via that to another VMS machine. IF not then use TCP/ip to copy the disk. As a machine you can put a lot of different disks into it and if you netboot/mop load it put a small disk in it as SWAP, as swapping over eithernet is SLOW. Also the power supply want that 30W load so you have to have a drive. Possible drives ST225(20mb), Quatum D540(30mb), ST251(40mb), XT21290(160mb) to name a few. that machine can format drives! >> versions as well (KA41 - KA49). Fortunately for me the desktop VAXes take >> up _much_ less room than the deskside variety, also the drive has Ultrix32 >> on it and its my only Ultrix based VAX (I've got Ultrix media for MIPS but >> not for VAX). I'm guessing that if I moved the jumper back I'd see it has >> some sort of frame buffer as well, perhaps it would bring up X even. It just might! Allison From elvey at hal.com Thu Jan 18 18:24:55 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200101190024.f0J0Ote05238@civic.hal.com> "Will Jennings" wrote: > Errrm, I have 8" hard-sector disks.. they are used by my Wang 2200MVP.. > which would mean the Nicolet 1080 possibly also uses hard-sector floppies, > since they share the same floppy disk drives, Shugart 9xx, can't remember > the number offhand. The DisplayWriter uses the 31SD. > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Hi Will There was nothing special about the SA900's that made them usable for hard sectored. It is just the controller that cares about counting index pulses ( I have a Nicolet 1080 ). The SA900 and the SA800-1 were that same except that the connector on the 800's are 50 pin and the 900's were 44 pin. The issue is that the 900 always had a clock separator. Not all 800's have them. Note to Don: It seems like I remember when trying to figure out what kind of disk I needed, that there was also a 10 sectored 8 inch as well as the 32. The only way to tell what kind of controller one has is to follow the index signal into the controller and trace out the circuit. If you find some one shots that have time constants and gating that looks like it would pick out the disk index from the sector holes, then you have hard sectored. As far as formatting, my machine needed a combination of setting up registers and some software to get it to work. This is not always true for all hard sectored setups. Some just require that you write to each sector so that there is clocking information. In my case, I needed to use 32 hard sectored disk that were combined into 2 sectors of 16 holes each. I also had to have a track number at the beginning of each track that was written in bit reversed order. Figuring this out kept me off the streets at night for a few weeks. Later Dwight From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Jan 18 19:11:05 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: VAX prom password? In-Reply-To: <000b01c081a9$0185b590$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: Check the openVMS faq On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Fred deBros wrote: > Anybody know the trick on how to reset the system account password on a VAX > 3100? > From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jan 18 20:03:55 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Computer Museum? References: <97.10098e00.2798b367@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A67A06B.137227CF@eoni.com> A month or so ago, someone posted a link to a Computer Museum that had an absolutely great 'time-line'. Does anyone remember/have that link? Thanks. Jim From optimus at canit.se Thu Jan 18 20:38:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Interact (was Death by Poking) In-Reply-To: <200101181442.GAA10586@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <971.419T2150T2186091optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> Sellam, >> >> There is some information on the Interact at >> http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/otherpag.htm >> >> It does appear to be a console machine a la >> the C-64, but a bit less powerful. >A *bit* less, yes ;-) What an intriguing machine. It's a 7-bitter? =) >Incidentally, did anyone read the link pointing to Bill Gates' comments >on the M100 on that page? Hey, I recognise that machine! I've played with it at a fleamarket, but put it down due to the faulty keyboard. It had been imported and rebadged by the then state telecom (Televerket, now Telia), though it still had a Tandy badge at the bottom. >http://www.tcp.com/%7elgreenf/bill.htm >It actually makes me kind of like the guy. My, I must say he comes off as a quite sociable and genuine person, here, not the ruthless executive we've all come to know and hate. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A bore is a man who deprives you of solitude without providing you with company. From goldarg at dub.net Thu Jan 18 21:08:03 2001 From: goldarg at dub.net (Goldarg) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <200101180228.UAA22830@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010118200341.02a08460@jive.dub.net> Howdy! I recently got a AT&T SCSI drive from a friend and wanted to see if I could get it working in my Sparc SLC but I don't have specs and cant find any online, The drive has a number of labels on it KS-23494 L11 B 5.25 Inch SCSI Winchester Disk Drive Model: 97536DA Option: STD Ser No: 3001a97212 Handle With Care AT&T-CC 405 723 057 is below one bar code AT*T-SN 9075361972212 is below a 2nd bar code Its a big drive and spins up but probe-SCSI does not find it. The last Label on the drive is 97536DA 6 8942 003 c3 b 2920 a9 6394 DIFF8840 Primary Rev Code: 3001 I'm wondering if the 'DIFF8840" part means its not normal SCSI and wont work with my SLC Any pointers to info or suggestions? From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Jan 18 21:36:40 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010118200341.02a08460@jive.dub.net> Message-ID: <3A67B61E.FFB09A27@eoni.com> Have you tried the tech page? Jim Goldarg wrote: > > Howdy! > > I recently got a AT&T SCSI drive from a friend and wanted to see if I could > get it working in my Sparc SLC but I don't have specs and cant find any online, From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 18 21:53:52 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Dutch auction for TRS-80 Model II's In-Reply-To: Dutch auction for TRS-80 Model II's (Jeff Hellige) References: <200101182305.SAA35476@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <14951.47696.519581.288442@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 18, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Wow...there's actually a dutch auction for 4 TRS-80 Model > II's on eBay at the moment....no reserve at that. I've no connection > to the seller but found it interesting since auctions for multiples > of that type of hardware is fairly uncommon. The URL is: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208570093 This is cool; I've always wanted a Model II. I'm gonna go for one. -Dave McGuire From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 18 21:41:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Computer Museum? In-Reply-To: <3A67A06B.137227CF@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Jim Arnott wrote: > A month or so ago, someone posted a link to a Computer Museum that had > an absolutely great 'time-line'. Does anyone remember/have that link? Just go here: http://www.computerhistory.org/ It's the top selection of the navigation bar on the left side. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rdd at smart.net Thu Jan 18 23:27:17 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: A challenge to Bill Gates (was: Interact) In-Reply-To: <971.419T2150T2186091optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 19 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > My, I must say he comes off as a quite sociable and genuine person, here, not > the ruthless executive we've all come to know and hate. It appears that what we need to do is to find a way to set the record straight on this, such as for Bill Gates to make an appearance on this list. Perhaps some of him have, or haven't, misjudged him, but, if will show up here, perhaps we could withold the flames until we find out how the _real_ Bill Gates thinks about computers and operating systems. What I'd like to really know is what he'd like to see an operating system be like if he could start over again from scratch. If Mr. Gates was challenged to design the ultimate operating system that was both easy for computer neophytes to use, yet also hacker friendly so that people who like to hack hardware and software would also feel at ease with it, which could support many users at one time, and also had excellent security, and with a reasonable degree of backwards compatibility with modems, hard drives and networking, etc., what sort of idea would he arrive at? This group, and participants in it, with all of their knowledge of classic computers, could provide a wealth of knowledge for helping to design such a system. Let's challenge Bill Gates to step away from Microsoft, and begin an effort to create the world's most useful operating system, that is also the most secure operating system, which could somehow also result in innovations that protect data in ways which most flavors of UN*X and Windows-NT fail to do, leading to a world in which data can truly be transmitted securely, with open-source and no "back doors," where people don't have to worry about the privacy of medical records, for example, being, breached due to network problems and the increasing number of ASPs with ties to large pharmaceutical companies who want such data for marketing purposes and to sell to other companies. I realize that Mr. Gates has been involved wiht companies that don't respect such privacy, but can he change, for _his own benefit_? He has wealth and power, but still has a lot of disrespect - which, I'm sure he'd like to turn to true heartfelt respect. If Bill Gates truly wants to achieve lasting greatness and respect, and be someone that his descendents will be able to look back on with much admiration, things which he still has a chance to do, perhaps he will. Will he accept the challenge? I doubt that he'll ever see this message; however, should he read it, what will he think? After all, he is in an excellent position to lead the way in making many _beneficial_ changes. RDD -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From William.King at dadaboom.com Thu Jan 18 23:27:22 2001 From: William.King at dadaboom.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Computer Museum? Message-ID: You might be thinking of: http://www.computerhistory.org Bill From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 23:44:22 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? References: Message-ID: <003801c081da$e0f24000$a9e8b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > My S/23 Service Manual states that two 8 inch drives > > were available, the 31SD which was a single sided FM > > only drive, and the 51TDF which was a double sided FM > > or MFM drive. The disks have 77 tracks per side, and > > data can be written on tracks 1 through 74, with 00 > > reserved for labeling and 75 and 76 for replacement. > > > > Both drives are hard sectored. FM disks can be > > formatted with 8, 15 or 26 tracks, with 512, 256 and > > 128 bytes per track respectively. For MFM the bytes > > per sector are doubled. > > I believe that you mean SOFT sectored, as the number of sectors > per track in a hard sector disk is determined by the disk and > is only changeable by using a disk with a different hole pattern. > FYI, 5.25" disks came in both 10 and 16 sector hole patterns, > while 8" were 32 hole only to the best of my knowledge. > > - don My S/23 manual says the following: "The location of the access hole for index sensing on a diskette [type] 1 differs from that on a diskette [type] 2 and diskette [type] 2D." The 31SD drive can only read type 1, so I guess you could say it's soft sectored (I assume it ignores the hole). The 51TD reads types 2 and 2d, which have the same hole pattern vis-a-vis each other, but different from a type 1, but also reads type 1. It distinguishes based on the location of the index hole, so I would say it was hard sectored. Then again, in effect it's only determining DS vs. SS so maybe that's not the same thing. What do you think? From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 19 00:14:23 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: <200101190024.f0J0Ote05238@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Dwight Elvey wrote: See comments at the end. > "Will Jennings" wrote: > > Errrm, I have 8" hard-sector disks.. they are used by my Wang 2200MVP.. > > which would mean the Nicolet 1080 possibly also uses hard-sector floppies, > > since they share the same floppy disk drives, Shugart 9xx, can't remember > > the number offhand. The DisplayWriter uses the 31SD. > > > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > Hi Will > There was nothing special about the SA900's that made them > usable for hard sectored. It is just the controller that cares > about counting index pulses ( I have a Nicolet 1080 ). The > SA900 and the SA800-1 were that same except that the connector > on the 800's are 50 pin and the 900's were 44 pin. The issue > is that the 900 always had a clock separator. Not all 800's > have them. > > Note to Don: > It seems like I remember when trying to figure out what kind > of disk I needed, that there was also a 10 sectored 8 inch > as well as the 32. The only way to tell what kind of controller > one has is to follow the index signal into the controller > and trace out the circuit. If you find some one shots that > have time constants and gating that looks like it would > pick out the disk index from the sector holes, then you > have hard sectored. > As far as formatting, my machine needed a combination of > setting up registers and some software to get it to work. > This is not always true for all hard sectored setups. > Some just require that you write to each sector so that > there is clocking information. In my case, I needed to > use 32 hard sectored disk that were combined into 2 sectors > of 16 holes each. I also had to have a track number at the > beginning of each track that was written in bit reversed > order. Figuring this out kept me off the streets at night > for a few weeks. > Later > Dwight Fascinating, Dwight! I can well imagine that one had you pulling out your hair for many hours. Seems there is always the exception that disproves the rule. Looking at my 3M Diskette Reference Manual - circa 1990 - it speaks only to the 32 hard sector disks. But it does not address the ones that had the sector holes near the circumference either. - don From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Jan 19 00:16:26 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Computer Museum? References: Message-ID: <3A67DB7F.291F0B50@eoni.com> Yup! That's the one! Thanks much. Jim From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Jan 19 00:00:14 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: Goldarg's message of "Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:08:03 -0700" References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010118200341.02a08460@jive.dub.net> Message-ID: <200101190600.f0J60Ek45718@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Goldarg wrote: > I recently got a AT&T SCSI drive from a friend and wanted to see if I could > Model: 97536DA > Option: STD > Ser No: 3001a97212 > Handle With Care >From the model and serial number, I'd guess that this drive was made by Hewlett-Packard in the first week of 1990. Those look like HP model and serial numbers. http://www.tame.com/hp/hpinfo.htm suggests that a 97536DA is a 330MB ESDI disk drive, OEM version. If you think it's SCSI, I wouldn't be surprised that it is high-voltage differential SCSI; HP did that sort of thing. -Frank McConnell From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 19 00:33:18 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Computer Museum? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 18, 1 07:41:55 pm" Message-ID: <200101190633.WAA11720@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > A month or so ago, someone posted a link to a Computer Museum that had > > an absolutely great 'time-line'. Does anyone remember/have that link? > > Just go here: > > http://www.computerhistory.org/ > > It's the top selection of the navigation bar on the left side. I see exactly *one* Commodore mention, and it's for the PET. Where is the C64? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my tarantula is getting neutered." ------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 19 00:46:48 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: 3480 data tapes In-Reply-To: <003e01c081a9$786c1820$e2759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: I have 2 sealed stacks of new 3480 data tapes, 10 Basf Extra 210, and 10 something else (I think 3M). No boxes or caddies, just brand new tape in a bulk shrink wrap. Sometimes it pays to snoop in old desk drawers. Email me directly if you need some, otherwise eBay. From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 19 00:53:41 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: <003801c081da$e0f24000$a9e8b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > > My S/23 Service Manual states that two 8 inch > drives > > > were available, the 31SD which was a single sided > FM > > > only drive, and the 51TDF which was a double sided > FM > > > or MFM drive. The disks have 77 tracks per side, > and > > > data can be written on tracks 1 through 74, with 00 > > > reserved for labeling and 75 and 76 for > replacement. > > > > > > Both drives are hard sectored. FM disks can be > > > formatted with 8, 15 or 26 tracks, with 512, 256 > and > > > 128 bytes per track respectively. For MFM the > bytes > > > per sector are doubled. > > > > I believe that you mean SOFT sectored, as the number > of sectors > > per track in a hard sector disk is determined by the > disk and > > is only changeable by using a disk with a different > hole pattern. > > FYI, 5.25" disks came in both 10 and 16 sector hole > patterns, > > while 8" were 32 hole only to the best of my > knowledge. > > > > - don > > My S/23 manual says the following: > > "The location of the access hole for index sensing on a > diskette [type] 1 differs from that on a diskette > [type] 2 and diskette [type] 2D." The 31SD drive can > only read type 1, so I guess you could say it's soft > sectored (I assume it ignores the hole). The 51TD > reads types 2 and 2d, which have the same hole pattern > vis-a-vis each other, but different from a type 1, but > also reads type 1. It distinguishes based on the > location of the index hole, so I would say it was hard > sectored. Then again, in effect it's only determining > DS vs. SS so maybe that's not the same thing. What do > you think? Wayne, what they are discussing is the aperture in the disk jacket that permits seeing the index and/or sector holes. On the Single-Sided disks that aperture is 7degrees clockwise from 12 0'clock. On the Double-Sided disks it is 26 degrees clockwise. Double-Side drives have sensors in both positions and can therefore read either single or double sided disks. On the other hand, Single-Side drives have only a single sensor at the 7 degree position. In a Hard-Sector 8" disk there are 32 evenly spaced sector holes, plus 1 index hole that is centered between two of the sector holes. To all intents and purposes, the only difference between a single and double sided Hard-Sector disks is the location of the aperture. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 19 00:57:32 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, Dwight Elvey wrote: > > See comments at the end. > > > "Will Jennings" wrote: > > > Errrm, I have 8" hard-sector disks.. they are used by my Wang 2200MVP.. > > > which would mean the Nicolet 1080 possibly also uses hard-sector floppies, > > > since they share the same floppy disk drives, Shugart 9xx, can't remember > > > the number offhand. The DisplayWriter uses the 31SD. > > > > > > Will J > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > Hi Will > > There was nothing special about the SA900's that made them > > usable for hard sectored. It is just the controller that cares > > about counting index pulses ( I have a Nicolet 1080 ). The > > SA900 and the SA800-1 were that same except that the connector > > on the 800's are 50 pin and the 900's were 44 pin. The issue > > is that the 900 always had a clock separator. Not all 800's > > have them. > > > > Note to Don: > > It seems like I remember when trying to figure out what kind > > of disk I needed, that there was also a 10 sectored 8 inch > > as well as the 32. The only way to tell what kind of controller > > one has is to follow the index signal into the controller > > and trace out the circuit. If you find some one shots that > > have time constants and gating that looks like it would > > pick out the disk index from the sector holes, then you > > have hard sectored. > > As far as formatting, my machine needed a combination of > > setting up registers and some software to get it to work. > > This is not always true for all hard sectored setups. > > Some just require that you write to each sector so that > > there is clocking information. In my case, I needed to > > use 32 hard sectored disk that were combined into 2 sectors > > of 16 holes each. I also had to have a track number at the > > beginning of each track that was written in bit reversed > > order. Figuring this out kept me off the streets at night > > for a few weeks. > > Later > > Dwight > > Fascinating, Dwight! I can well imagine that one had you pulling out > your hair for many hours. Seems there is always the exception that > disproves the rule. > > Looking at my 3M Diskette Reference Manual - circa 1990 - it speaks > only to the 32 hard sector disks. But it does not address the ones > that had the sector holes near the circumference either. > > - don I erred! They do address them as Vydec compatible, but apparently did not make them. - don From wmsmith at earthlink.net Fri Jan 19 01:36:03 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Format for IBM display writer disks?? References: Message-ID: <00a601c081ea$7a368e60$a9e8b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > My S/23 manual says the following: > > > > "The location of the access hole for index sensing on a > > diskette [type] 1 differs from that on a diskette > > [type] 2 and diskette [type] 2D." The 31SD drive can > > only read type 1, so I guess you could say it's soft > > sectored (I assume it ignores the hole). The 51TD > > reads types 2 and 2d, which have the same hole pattern > > vis-a-vis each other, but different from a type 1, but > > also reads type 1. It distinguishes based on the > > location of the index hole, so I would say it was hard > > sectored. Then again, in effect it's only determining > > DS vs. SS so maybe that's not the same thing. What do > > you think? > > Wayne, what they are discussing is the aperture in the disk > jacket that permits seeing the index and/or sector holes. > On the Single-Sided disks that aperture is 7degrees clockwise > from 12 0'clock. On the Double-Sided disks it is 26 degrees > clockwise. Double-Side drives have sensors in both positions > and can therefore read either single or double sided disks. > On the other hand, Single-Side drives have only a single sensor > at the 7 degree position. > > In a Hard-Sector 8" disk there are 32 evenly spaced sector holes, > plus 1 index hole that is centered between two of the sector holes. > To all intents and purposes, the only difference between a single > and double sided Hard-Sector disks is the location of the aperture. > > - don > > I learn at the feet of the master. Thanks. -W From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Jan 19 01:54:36 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Serial pinout for Pioneer laserdisc Message-ID: <20010119005436.T11371@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> I'm not sure this is 10 years old yet, but anyway... the info is so scarce you'd think it was. :-) Anybody have the pinout of this DB-15 serial port? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 19 03:00:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Apple/mac near portland, OR. In-Reply-To: <00a601c081ea$7a368e60$a9e8b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: Here is a curious eBay ad, Local Pickup only in sounds like Portland Oregon area. My reading of the ad is that it includes some Bell and Howell Apples. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208777810 From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Jan 19 03:47:56 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Aquarius and Memotech MTX512 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:34:04 GMT." Message-ID: <200101190947.JAA06369@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > So how come the charity shops in Bristol aren't full of > > Good Stuff like this??? They seem to be scared of anything > > with a mains plug on it! > > Around here, all the charity shops have large notices which read 'We are > not allowed to accept any form of electical goods' :-(. So no computers > at all. The problem is, the equipment has to be inspected and certified safe by a qualified person - which means paying them - so there's no money to be made selling them unless they charge more. I know someone who does this job for one of those "Cash Converter"-type places, but they price things accordingly ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From gaz_k at lineone.net Fri Jan 19 09:44:22 2001 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: List FAQ References: Message-ID: <002001c08230$1d285f00$0101010a@pentium2> Can someone send me the List FAQ -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 19 09:17:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: A challenge to Bill Gates (was: Interact) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > It appears that what we need to do is to find a way to set the record > straight on this, such as for Bill Gates to make an appearance on this > list. Perhaps some of him have, or haven't, misjudged him, but, if > will show up here, perhaps we could withold the flames until we find > out how the _real_ Bill Gates thinks about computers and operating > systems. What I'd like to really know is what he'd like to see an > operating system be like if he could start over again from scratch. > If Mr. Gates was challenged to design the ultimate operating system > that was both easy for computer neophytes to use, yet also hacker > friendly so that people who like to hack hardware and software would > also feel at ease with it, which could support many users at one time, > and also had excellent security, and with a reasonable degree of > backwards compatibility with modems, hard drives and networking, etc., > what sort of idea would he arrive at? This group, and participants in > it, with all of their knowledge of classic computers, could provide a > wealth of knowledge for helping to design such a system. You're assuming the technical aspects matter to him, which by all accounts they do not. He simply wants to win at all costs. > respect such privacy, but can he change, for _his own benefit_? He > has wealth and power, but still has a lot of disrespect - which, I'm > sure he'd like to turn to true heartfelt respect. Who needs respect when you have $55 billion? > If Bill Gates truly wants to achieve lasting greatness and respect, > and be someone that his descendents will be able to look back on with > much admiration, things which he still has a chance to do, perhaps he > will. Will he accept the challenge? I doubt that he'll ever see this > message; however, should he read it, what will he think? After all, > he is in an excellent position to lead the way in making many > _beneficial_ changes. I invite, nay, I CHALLENGE Bill Gates to speak at VCF 5.0! And Steve Jobs too! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 19 11:32:12 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: new additions and a sad story Message-ID: <6b.eb5a747.2799d41c@aol.com> Picked up several items for 50 cents each! I got: mac IIci and a colour display for it. PS/2 model 70 with NIC and... a TRS80 data terminal DT-1. Looks just like a model 2/3 except its very light and has no floppy drives. had two cables coming out of it, presumably for a printer and modem of some sort. while i was bringing all this stuff up to pay for it, a guy had mentioned to me that if i had been in an adjacent county a few days ago, i could have gotten a lot of other computers. He said many apples (dont know what models) where simply thrown in the dumpster because they didnt know what to do with them. I guess the hard part is how to let non computer types know of computer rescuing people ready to avert this kind of tragedy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010119/cba4b7a1/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 19 12:30:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: List FAQ In-Reply-To: <002001c08230$1d285f00$0101010a@pentium2> References: Message-ID: >Can someone send me the List FAQ Is there a FAQ? This is the second request I've seen for one in the last week (the other was sent directly to me). To the best of my knowledge there isn't, but probably should be. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Jan 19 13:13:33 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: A challenge to Bill Gates (was: Interact) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 19, 2001 07:17:01 am" Message-ID: <200101191913.f0JJDXO01106@bg-tc-ppp348.monmouth.com> > On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > I invite, nay, I CHALLENGE Bill Gates to speak at VCF 5.0! And Steve > Jobs too! :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org Gates did the 1988 (or was it 87) Trenton Computer Festival. As a volunteer, I held the mike for a number of the questioners. We got the standard Windows will revolutionize the world speach with the Excel spread sheets of MS sales and profits (the wall street analysts speach). Questions about SCO and Xenix ownership (and would Microsoft do anything with Unix or Xenix -- and questions about any geek issues were quickly disposed of with non-answers...) He wouldn't be much fun at VCF. Believe me. He doesn't talk about the good old days, the TRS 80 model 100 or anything that's not about MS market share, control and so-called "innovation." At least Jobs might say something unscripted. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Jan 19 14:19:29 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <200101190600.f0J60Ek45718@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from Frank McConnell at "Jan 18, 2001 10:00:14 pm" Message-ID: <200101192019.f0JKJTr01241@bg-tc-ppp348.monmouth.com> > Goldarg wrote: > > I recently got a AT&T SCSI drive from a friend and wanted to see if I could > > > Model: 97536DA > > Option: STD > > Ser No: 3001a97212 > > Handle With Care > > >From the model and serial number, I'd guess that this drive was > made by Hewlett-Packard in the first week of 1990. Those look > like HP model and serial numbers. > > http://www.tame.com/hp/hpinfo.htm suggests that a 97536DA is a > 330MB ESDI disk drive, OEM version. > > If you think it's SCSI, I wouldn't be surprised that it is > high-voltage differential SCSI; HP did that sort of thing. > > -Frank McConnell They were pretty common in both single ended and differential. I'll bet it's differential SCSI. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jan 19 14:38:07 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs Message-ID: <20010119.143807.-307117.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:19:29 -0500 (EST) Bill Pechter writes: > > Goldarg wrote: > > > I recently got a AT&T SCSI drive from a friend and wanted to see > if I could > > > > > Model: 97536DA > > > Option: STD > > > Ser No: 3001a97212 > > > Handle With Care > > > > >From the model and serial number, I'd guess that this drive was > > made by Hewlett-Packard in the first week of 1990. Those look > > like HP model and serial numbers. > > > > http://www.tame.com/hp/hpinfo.htm suggests that a 97536DA is a > > 330MB ESDI disk drive, OEM version. > > > > If you think it's SCSI, I wouldn't be surprised that it is > > high-voltage differential SCSI; HP did that sort of thing. > > > > -Frank McConnell > > They were pretty common in both single ended and differential. > > I'll bet it's differential SCSI. Wait a minute, guys. Did this drive come with a bridge board? I've seen a couple of AT&T units with ESDI drives, with fancy EMULEX bridges attached thereto. Of course, if yours is an expansion box, then there would be no controller-- the emulex bridges could handle two or four drives, depending on the model. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Jan 19 16:37:17 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Disassembling Gateway Solo and P3C laptops? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010119163306.023d03d0@pc> I picked up a laptop with a broken screen because it had more memory and a larger HD and a faster processor than a similar model I already owned. I'd like to swap the displays. Any tips on disassembling laptops? I have removed the bezel around the screen - two screws and pop the tension clips around the edge. I found four screws along the back, but they didn't seem to loosen anything. The keyboard may pop out, but I don't know how to disengage it. - John From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 19 17:33:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: List FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>Can someone send me the List FAQ >Is there a FAQ? This is the second request I've seen for one in the last >week (the other was sent directly to me). To the best of my knowledge >there isn't, but probably should be. Should there? What would it cover? There have been a lot of systems produced as of 1991, and covering all these would indeed prove troublesome. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. --- Vittorio de Sica From donm at cts.com Fri Jan 19 18:28:54 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <20010119.143807.-307117.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > > > On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:19:29 -0500 (EST) Bill Pechter > writes: > > > Goldarg wrote: > > > > I recently got a AT&T SCSI drive from a friend and wanted to see > > if I could > > > > > > > Model: 97536DA > > > > Option: STD > > > > Ser No: 3001a97212 > > > > Handle With Care > > > > > > >From the model and serial number, I'd guess that this drive was > > > made by Hewlett-Packard in the first week of 1990. Those look > > > like HP model and serial numbers. > > > > > > http://www.tame.com/hp/hpinfo.htm suggests that a 97536DA is a > > > 330MB ESDI disk drive, OEM version. > > > > > > If you think it's SCSI, I wouldn't be surprised that it is > > > high-voltage differential SCSI; HP did that sort of thing. > > > > > > -Frank McConnell > > > > They were pretty common in both single ended and differential. > > > > I'll bet it's differential SCSI. > > Wait a minute, guys. Did this drive come with a bridge board? > I've seen a couple of AT&T units with ESDI drives, with fancy > EMULEX bridges attached thereto. Of course, if yours is an > expansion box, then there would be no controller-- the > emulex bridges could handle two or four drives, depending > on the model. The Pocket PCRef lists the 'D'suffix as SCSI, Jeff. The ESDI version has an 'E' suffix. Does not lis the 'DA' suffix, though. - don > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 19 17:31:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: A challenge to Bill Gates (was: Interact) In-Reply-To: <200101191913.f0JJDXO01106@bg-tc-ppp348.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > He wouldn't be much fun at VCF. Believe me. > He doesn't talk about the good old days, the TRS 80 model 100 or > anything that's not about MS market share, control and so-called > "innovation." Who cares. I just want the attendance :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 19 19:17:22 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Serial pinout for Pioneer laserdisc References: <20010119005436.T11371@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <3A68E722.9738086B@rain.org> "Shawn T. Rutledge" wrote: > > I'm not sure this is 10 years old yet, but anyway... the info is so > scarce you'd think it was. :-) Anybody have the pinout of this DB-15 > serial port? Since Pioneer made several laserdisc players, it would help to have the model number of the one in question :). From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 19 19:17:18 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Dutch auction for TRS-80 Model II's References: <200101182305.SAA35476@shuswap.gate.net> Message-ID: <3A68E71E.3037B204@rain.org> Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Wow...there's actually a dutch auction for 4 TRS-80 Model > II's on eBay at the moment....no reserve at that. I've no connection > to the seller but found it interesting since auctions for multiples > of that type of hardware is fairly uncommon. The URL is: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208570093 I think before I bid, I would check with the seller. The description is written such that it sounds like only one system is being sold. Might save a bit of grief by checking before bidding and making sure the seller meant 4 systems rather than 4 *pieces* to the bid. His feedback is low enough that he might have made a mistake. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Jan 19 19:52:07 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs Message-ID: <20010119.195207.-415505.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:28:54 -0800 (PST) Don Maslin writes: > > Wait a minute, guys. Did this drive come with a bridge board? > > I've seen a couple of AT&T units with ESDI drives, with fancy > > EMULEX bridges attached thereto. Of course, if yours is an > > expansion box, then there would be no controller-- the > > emulex bridges could handle two or four drives, depending > > on the model. > > The Pocket PCRef lists the 'D'suffix as SCSI, Jeff. The ESDI > version > has an 'E' suffix. Does not lis the 'DA' suffix, though. > > - don D'oh! (Slaps forehead). ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 19 19:48:53 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <200101192019.f0JKJTr01241@bg-tc-ppp348.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <335.420T2650T1686095optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >They were pretty common in both single ended and differential. >I'll bet it's differential SCSI. And now for the 10 000$ question: what /is/ differential SCSI? In what way does it differ? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. --- Vittorio de Sica From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Jan 19 20:19:55 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: Serial pinout for Pioneer laserdisc In-Reply-To: <3A68E722.9738086B@rain.org>; from marvin@rain.org on Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:17:22PM -0800 References: <20010119005436.T11371@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3A68E722.9738086B@rain.org> Message-ID: <20010119191955.Z11371@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 05:17:22PM -0800, Marvin wrote: > "Shawn T. Rutledge" wrote: > > > > I'm not sure this is 10 years old yet, but anyway... the info is so > > scarce you'd think it was. :-) Anybody have the pinout of this DB-15 > > serial port? > > Since Pioneer made several laserdisc players, it would help to have the > model number of the one in question :). I suspect all the 15-pin connectors on all the models are the same. But, it's an LD-V4200. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From rdd at smart.net Fri Jan 19 20:31:56 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:16 2005 Subject: A challenge to Bill Gates (was: Interact) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Who cares. I just want the attendance :) If it was closer, I'd be attending; heck, it sounds like it might be so much fun that, even if undersirable elements like Bill Gates were in attendance, I'd still show up. :-) Good luck with it! Any more news on a VCF east? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 19 21:07:23 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 References: Message-ID: <001601c0828e$1dc0dec0$0100a8c0@jack> I want to load netBSD 1.5 on my VAX 3100/76 that has only HDD and Floppy. The CD is bootable, so a CD ROM would greatly facilitate things Any of those critters around, with cables/enclosure/bezel? Fred From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 19 21:23:58 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <335.420T2650T1686095optimus@canit.se> References: <335.420T2650T1686095optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <1455.208.227.9.12.979961038.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > And now for the 10 000$ question: what /is/ differential SCSI? In what > way does it differ? It may be a $10K question, but you get a free answer, and hopefully worth every penny. :-) Differential SCSI is electrically completely incompatible with "normal" (single-ended) SCSI. Differential is now called High-Voltage Differential, or HVD, to distinguish it from the new Low-Voltage Differential (LVD). Single-ended signalling means that each signal pair has one signal that is at TTL level (under 0.8V for logic 0, above 2.0V for logic 1), and a signal return at ground level. Note that the active signal never carries a negative voltage with respect to the return. (In reality there may be short undershoots due to "ringing"; one of the functions of termination is to minimize this.) Differential signalling actively drives both signals of a pair. For a logic 0, one signal (called "true") is driven low, and the other ("complement") is driven high. For a logic 1, the reverse is done. Note that this means that the true signal voltage can be either positive or negative with respect to the complement signal. Differential signalling is preferred because it is more reliable, especially when used with long cables. Many high-end servers and workstations (e.g., IBM, HP, Sun) used HVD for this reason. Unfortunately, HVD uses exactly the same connectors as single-ended SCSI, though it will not interoperate unless you use a converter (generally fairly expensive). The newer LVD operates on the same principle but at lower voltage levels. LVD signalling is not compatible with either HVD or single-ended. However (before everyone jumps all over me), LVD devices will detect that they are plugged into a single-ended SCSI bus, and switch to single-ended signalling. Thus you can mix LVD and single-ended SCSI devices on one bus, but you do not get the benefits of LVD signalling when you do so. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Jan 19 21:28:06 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT: DNS problem resolved Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010119192806.009785f0@192.168.42.129> DNS problems that were, for the past two days, interfering with normal mail flow in and out of bluefeathertech.com have been corrected. A great big CLASSICCMP "Thank you!" goes to Jay West, our list maintainer, for helping me to troubleshoot the problem. ;-) Although she's not a listmember, Juli Kislenger at Qwest Internet also deserves a big batch of kudos. I consider it a miracle that I got her instead of some newbie handling my case. The end result: Blue Feather is now entirely self-hosted, including local DNS boxes. The only things I'm dependent on USQwest for now are my actual connectivity and my Usenet feed. Everything else is most definitely local (about 30 feet away in my garage, to be exact). Lots of stress, lots of work, but well worth it in the end knowing that I can now configure the domain -exactly- the way I want it to be configured. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Jan 19 21:37:19 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <335.420T2650T1686095optimus@canit.se> References: <200101192019.f0JKJTr01241@bg-tc-ppp348.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010119193719.00984ae0@192.168.42.129> At 02:48 20-01-2001 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >And now for the 10 000$ question: what /is/ differential SCSI? In what way >does it differ? Differential is merely a type of electrical interface. Its use is not limited to SCSI devices: Certain types of high-speed serial ports, such as V.35, are also differential. Here's the details. Single-ended SCSI interfaces have one signal line, and one matching ground return line, for each SCSI signal (REQ, ACK, D0-D7, etc.) A signal line is considered to be active or 'asserted' when the line goes to a logic high (TTL logic, +5V usually) in reference to the ground line. With differential, you have two active signal lines per signal. When said signal is asserted, one line will be pulled to a given positive voltage (often +12) while the other is pulled to the opposite negative voltage (-12 in this context). A differential interface only recognizes that a signal has gone active when there is a significant difference in potential between the two lines. This gives a diff interface much greater noise immunity than that of single-ended setups, and it also allows much greater cable length than you can have in SE (25 meters vs. 9, as I recall... someone check me on that, please?) Critical point: You CANNOT mix diff and SE SCSI devices on the same bus without an interface converter on the mismatched device. Without said converter, one of two things will happen. 1). At best, built-in protective features in the interface drivers will detect the presence of a differential device (the DIFFSENSE line), and will shut down the entire bus. 2). If, for some reason, said features fail to function as designed, you'll be reaching for a fire extinguisher pretty quick. Recommended reading: http://www.scsifaq.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 19 22:09:54 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: List FAQ References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <003f01c08296$d9309940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Zane H. Healy" Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: Re: List FAQ > Zane H. Healy skrev: > >>Can someone send me the List FAQ > >Is there a FAQ? This is the second request I've seen for one in the last > >week (the other was sent directly to me). To the best of my knowledge > >there isn't, but probably should be. > > Should there? What would it cover? There have been a lot of systems produced > as of 1991, and covering all these would indeed prove troublesome. How to get around the password protection on the various machines. I've had been given several machines without passwords. Links to various hardware compatibility sites, museum sites, archived manufacturer sites, How-to clean yellowed cases, make cables.... What to look for when buying an old machine, How to restore one, Various disk formats, sources for boot disks,.... From william.webb at juno.com Sat Jan 20 01:51:58 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W Webb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 Message-ID: <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com> Fred, do a search for RRD40/42/43. These are the original DEC CD-ROM drives that I absolutely positively know will work with these boxes- they are jumperable to do 512 or 2048 byte sectors. (VMS requires drives that do 512.) RRD40s are really old and need a caddy. You might be interested to know that I've got the Owner's Guide for the VAXstation 3100 Model 76 online at: http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html I'm considering doing the VAXstation 4000 VLC manual next, but only if there's a demand for it since that much HTML pretty much by hand is a real bitch. William W. Webb I don't know if it's outside of the scope of this mailing list to talk about things for sale, but I've got hold of some old 64 x 64 bit core frames that would look really nice in a shadowbox or under glass as a desktop doodad. Mfr. Lockheed Electronics Corp. I can also lay my hands on a 4K module (9 frames with diode arrray connector cards) If anybody's interested, drop me an email and we'll talk about price. Apologies in advance if I've transgressed. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From bobcaar at cyberdude.com Thu Jan 18 20:36:19 2001 From: bobcaar at cyberdude.com (Devon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: O.T.: Compu-Voxx Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010118213619.007dd100@mail.iname.com> larry: I've got a couple of these units too. It records about 20 seconds of sound (at least mine do, I believe there were other models) and plays it back in a loop at the desired FM frequency. The input power is a 5 pin male DIN rated 22VAC and 20VA (reads on supply). Looking at the the plug, from left to right the pinout is as follows 1 4 2 5 3 (with standard DIN numbering, measured with multimeter): (1) 23V [between 1&2] (4) n/c (2)common (5) n/c (3) -11V [between 1&3 or 2&3] 1 3 4 5 2 I believe this unit only requires 22VAC between 1&2. These units were used in realestate to give a short blurb about a house. Apparently they retailed for $11 000 (?) back when the previous owner bought them. Devon > I have a box in a nice well padded soft-case called a Compu-Voxx. >It was manufactured by Manutronics. It has a removable antenna. >It appears to be some sort of transmitting device for sending >messages. Based on the instructions on the face you record a >message (to a chip I imagine) and then send if the selectable >digital readout frequency is between 88.1 and 107.9. > That sounds like the AM band to me. Could this be some sort of >civil defense emergency device ? > It has a 5-pin DIN plug for power which unfortunately didn't come >with it which is not an unsurmountable problem. > Anyone know what this might be. > >ciao larry > >Reply to: >lgwalker@look.ca From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 19 23:14:32 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> <003f01c08296$d9309940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3A691EB8.FB79B6C5@rain.org> ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Technical FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.2 Last Update: 12/10/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 3 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regularly asked questions which are technical in nature. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart3.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. General ------------------ 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? 2. Media -------- 2.1 What's a hard sector disk? What's a soft sector disk? 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? 2.4 What disk sizes are there? 2.5 How do I take care of old media? 3. Component Failure Issues --------------------------- 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? 3.2 How about ROM's, other chips? 3.3 How about capacitors? 3.4 Anything else? 3.5 So how do I backup all this stuff like you suggest? 4. Software ----------- 4.1 Where can I get a system disk for platform X? 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? 5. Specific Problems/Solutions ------------------------------ 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? ============================================================================= 1.1 I just picked up a new machine. What should I do? Don't power it up yet! All of the following should probably be done before that power switch gets flipped. Open the case - clean and visually inspect components. You're looking for traces of smoke, water, corrosion, loose screws, blown caps and resistors, cold (broken) solder joints, bent pins, etc. It may be a good idea to remove and re-seat all socketed components and connectors. If anything burned or overheated it will probably pay to replace it before powering up the unit. You can avoid a number of problems just by taking a peek inside. If you have the tools (and the machine is sufficiently rare) pull and dump backups of all EPROMs, ROMs, and PALs. If you have really cool tools (like a logic analyzer) it has been suggested that you use them to record critical information from those oh-so-hard-to-find custom chips. Specific information on how to do this is beyond the scope of a FAQ, but you probably know what you need to if you own the appropriate tools. Disconnect the power supply from the rest of the computer and start it up on a "dummy load". A six volt headlight bulb has been recommended as a convenient load. These should be available from any decent Volkswagen shop. Running the power supply without a load could result in damage to it. You may want to check the voltage output before you do this as it could be no where near the 5V average in micros. Even if you don't want to connect a load it's still probably a good idea to power it up separately from the computer for the first time. If you have a really rare beast it may be worth powering up some of the key capacitors out of circuit just to get them warmed up. Now you can power it up. Assuming it works, take a blank disk, format it, write some data to it, and read it back before using your precious software with it, as a bad disk drive could really ruin your day. 1.2 What's the best way to clean these dingy tan boxes? Cases: It seems best to start gently with such old equipment. Try soaking in a little water and dish soap and then scrubbing. This takes care of most jobs. For removing stickers try mineral oil or Goo-Gone (available at most hardware stores - in the US at least). If those don't work, acetone can be good but, if overused, can do more harm. For removing marker, almost any solvent is good (alcohol, naptha, etc) but will definitely discolor or dissolve plastic if not carefully applied. Lava soap is also good for removing marker but can smooth off textured plastic. For removing sun or tobacco discoloring a product called Purple Stuff available from auto parts stores (again, in the US at least) seems to do the job almost effortlessly. Recommended commercial products: Purple Stuff from Kragen [for discoloration] Brasso [ink/marker] (can discolor plastic) Antistatic Foam Cleaner from Electrolube [for discoloration/markings] Citra-Solv [for discoloration] (can dissolve plastic if undiluted) Cameo Copper Cleaner [ink/marker] Naptha [for stickers/goop/spooge] (very flammable) 3M GP Adhesive Remover [for stickers/goop/spooge] CRC 226 / CRC 556 [for stickers/goop/spooge] Fulcron [for discoloration] Blue Shower / BS II [for stickers/goop/spooge] Connectors: For edge connectors a plain pink eraser seems good for removing corrosion. Apparently other colors of eraser indicate a different texture - which may be damaging. Make sure to wipe the connectors with a clean cloth after erasing on them. There are a large number chemicals on the market that "magically" remove corrosion from components but as I don't know how safe they are, I'm not anxious to promote any of them. For pin style connectors a toothbrush and some softscrub or other mildly abrasive cleaner do wonders. Recommended commercial products: Electrolube contact cleaning sprays. Keyboards: I find a cycle through the dishwasher does a really nice job on keyboards. Just be sure they're completely dry before you put any power to them. If there is reason not to use a dishwasher (some key labels can come off) it is usually possible to remove each keycap and clean conventionally. [][][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What's a hard sectored disk? What's a soft sectored disk? We'll start with soft-sector since they're simpler to explain. On a soft-sector floppy disk the information that marks where a sector begins and ends is written to the disk by the computer (part of the formatting process). This means that various computers can use the same floppy disk types because the format of the disk is control- led by the operating system. Hard sector disks use a system of perforations in the media to mark the beginnings and ends of sectors. This means that computers which used hard sectored disks required the exact disk type they specified rather than a generic soft-sector floppy. A number of differently sectored disks were available - at least 10, 13, and 16 sector formats. 8 inch and 5.25 inch disks commonly used hard sectoring. 3.5 inch disks never came hard-sectored and, in fact, it would not be possible. 2.2 What's SS/SD, DS/DD, DS/QD, DS/HD, etc. These all refer to the number of useable sides on a disk and it's density (how "efficiently" the magnetic bits are pushed together). SS/SD is a Single Sided - Single Density disk, the earliest available type I believe. The storage afforded by a single density disk was very small compared to today's standards. Single Sided disks were popular because they were cheaper than DS and could be easily modified with a hole punch into double sided disks. SD was followed by Double Density which, amazingly, doubled the amount of storage space. Double Density was followed by the extremely short-lived Quad Density which doubled a DD disk. QD was short lived because High Density was right on it's heels and nearly doubled disk capacity again. DS/HD was as sophisticated as 5.25" disks became. 3.5" disks have progressed as far as DS/EHD double-sided / extra-high density. 2.3 Can these formats be interchanged? Well, that may depend on what computer you are using, but in general the following substitutions may be made: Desired Format Substitute --------------------------------------------------- Single Density Double Density Double Density none reliably Quad Density DD, HD (sometimes work, not advisable!) High Density none Other substitutions may be made, but due to physical differences in how the disks are made they are generally unreliable. It can almost be guaranteed that data written to a proper density disk of poor quality will last longer than data written to a good quality disk of the wrong density. In the case of quad density no substitution should be considered reliable. DD and HD disks both can be forced to work. One may work better than the other given the peculiarities of various drives. 2.4 What disk sizes are there? Disk Types? Physically? Standard Disks Unique/Proprietary Disks --------------------------------------------------------- 8" (Floppy) 5" (MiniFloppy) 5.25" (MiniFloppy) 3.25" (MicroFloppy) 3.5" (MicroFloppy) 3" (MicroFloppy) 2.5" 2" In addition to odd sizes - there is at least one type of disk which was physically different. "Twiggy" disks for the Apple Lisa 1 were regular 5.25" disks with the exception that they had two read/write windows. One was oriented "north" of the center hole, the other "south". 2.5 How do I take care of old media? Step one is Back It Up! After that, make sure it's kept in a clean, dry, temperature-controlled environment (I keep mine in a broken freezer). With disks it seems important to keep them standing on end rather than lying flat - the same goes for cassette tapes. I like to exercise disks and tapes at least once every six months although I have no real evidence that this has any positive effect. I have modified an old C64 floppy drive to simply spin when a disk is inserted and send large stacks of disks through it on a regular basis just to make sure they're not starting to stick up internally. An exciting and somewhat recent development is that availability of classic computer emulators that can make disk images of old media on PC's and Macs. This seems to be a very good way to backup disks since they will eventually go bad no matter how well we take care of them. The official line seems to be that floppy disks have a shelf-life of approximately 10 years. With proper care many are lasting a lot longer. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 Do EPROM's go bad? Definitely. They apparently are considered to reliably contain data for (on the outside edge) 15 years. This amount can be considerably reduced if, for example, the sticker over the window has dried out and fallen off. Luckily EPROMs were not used too extensively but they're out there. An EPROM writer/reader is a relatively cheap investment and an easy fix. Even if an EPROM has "forgotten" it's data it is still fine for being "re-educated". 3.2 How about ROMs and other chips? Things wear out. It's likely that even components which have not been fried by catastrophic failure will simply start to die someday. ROMs can be dumped to a file and re-written if they die. Other custom chips which are all too common in micros will be far more difficult to replace. The best advice is to stockpile these chips when you can - but someday even unused chips will probably start to turn up bad. In this case the best defense is to stockpile information in the hope of being able to modify an existing component to meet your needs. 3.3 How about capacitors? This seems to be another large concern, but rather than being an unreplaceable component a capacitor will take your unreplaceable components with it when it goes. It's a good idea to check out all the caps in a system if you haven't fired it up in a while. Caps go bad with time (even tantalum caps, apparently - although they are more reliable) and should be replaced if they are suspect. It's unlikely that it will be impossible to find a replacement capacitor as they are much more standard electronic components. 3.4 Anything else? Documentation: If there's anything which is entirely unreplaceable its the docs for uncommon equipment. Once they're gone, they're gone. I regularly pick up docs I find for equipment I don't have just because I may someday. Paper will, of course. go bad over time but it will be obvious and they will be easily duplicated. Hard Disks: ST-251s, ST-502s, MFM, RLL... old hard disks are going to go bad. Then they'll be gone. Theoretically, I suppose it's possible to crack a hard drive and replace a dead bearing, realign, relaminate, etc... but I've never heard of anyone doing these things in their base- ment. Perhaps in another 5 or 10 years many of us will be experts at this. 3.5 So, how do I back up all this stuff like you suggest? This answer will undoubtedly get longer as I learn more. The best ways seem to be to dump the particular ROM (or whatever) using the approp- riate equipment to a floppy disk (which most of this equipment allows). >From there you can transfer the data to either a CD-ROM - convenient but not long term reliable storage or to mylar tape which may be inconvenient - but the official word on how long it lasts is "Damn near forever." Punch tape units are available and apparently not difficult to use with a PC (PC - the great multi-purpose classic computer peripheral). Optical tape readers are recommended. Recommended products: Tape Writers: Facit 4070, Teletype BRPE. Tape Readers: Trend 700 [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Where do I get a system disk for platform X? Since this is a tough one, let me break it down a little: Apple II: System disks for the Apple II are available from Apple at ftp.apple.com. Apple III system disks aren't available although probably will be soon on the ClassicCmp site. Apple Lisa disks aren't availble and probably will not be due to the extreme measure of copy protection used on them. Older Mac system software is availble on the Apple site. CP/M Systems: Ak! These can be a pain. The best source (although I've never actually talked to him) seems to be Don Maslin who runs the Dina-SIG system disk archive. He charges a small fee for the service - which I imagine is well worth the cost! He can be contacted on the internet at . Other systems - let me know. 4.2 What's the best way to back up my software? One of the most promising ways that has come up is to use a PC with a soundcard as a really expensive cassette recorder for data storage. Fundamentally there's not much difference between a real recorder and and a PC equipped with sound. By storing your software in your favorite PC sound file format you can then back up to CD or tape or whatever PC medium you like. Most micros came equipped with the ability to store programs to tape and I would imagine that it would be easy to modify computers without this capability to use one. In addition, the rapid rise in the popularity of emulators has given rise to a number of disk image formats for old machines. In many cases it is possible to read/write disk images for classic computers with modern PCs. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Is it possible to bypass an RF modulator to achieve composite output? Possibly - depending on what you're working on. In the simplest case it is possible to simply run off of the inputs to the modulator right to your monitor. Some setups will apparently require a video amplifier. It has also been suggested that it may help to turn of the termination switch at the monitor. ============================================================================= CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS CREDITS ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks go out to the following people for much of this information: (some credited by e-mail handle) Adam Bergstrom Kai Kaltenbach Alexios Chouchoulas Keith Whitehead Captain Napalm Ricardo Romagnoli Chris Starling J. Maynard Gelinas Dave Jenner Douglas Zander George Lin Greg Mast Jay Vaughn Jeff Hellige Jim Strickland Jim Willing Larry Anderson Martin Evans Paul Coad Roger Merchberger Ron Mitchell Sam Ismail Tony (A.R. Duell) William Donzelli ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ============================================================================== From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 19 23:14:23 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> <003f01c08296$d9309940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3A691EAF.3B121200@rain.org> ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 2 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy List Specific FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.6.3 Last Update: 12/10/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This FAQ is written with the primary purpose of making readily available answers to the more common questions appearing on ClassicCmp. It is Maintained by Bill Whitson . The infor- mation in this document has been gathered from a variety of sources but, in general, the members of ClassicCmp should be credited for all contain- ed herein. I have, of course, endeavored to be as accurate as is possible and often failed ;). This FAQ is Part 2 of the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy. The information presented deals with regular day-to-day issues on the list. If you have questions, comments, or corrections (always welcome) please contact me at the address above. A current copy of this FAQ is available on the web at http://haliotis.bothell washington.edu/classiccmp or via anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188 in the directory /pub/classiccmp/faqs as cclpart2.faq. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: Added: section 1.8 Changed: section 1.3, 1.5, 1.7, 3.1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. About the List ----------------- 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? 1.3 What's a Classic Computer? 1.4 Who runs this thing? 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? 1.6 Don't you know you're duplicating what others have done? 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? 1.8 How long has this list been around? 2. Protocol and Etiquette ------------------------- 2.1 What can I talk about? 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? 2.3 Can I talk about Mini/MainFrames? 2.4 Can I post advertisements? 2.5 Can I ask people to give me their computers? 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x? 2.7 Where should I look before posting a dumb question? 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS?!? 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? 2.10 Can I use obscene languagein my posts? 3. Misc List Information ------------------------ 3.1 How many subscribers are there? 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? 3.3 Is this list archived? 4. ClassicCmp Resources on the Net ---------------------------------- 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a Web Site? 4.2 How come the Web Site is so ugly? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP Site? Collecting ---------- 5.1 Where can I find Classic Computers? 5.2 How much is machine x worth? 5.3 Will thousands of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! ============================================================================= 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail ;) 1.2 Why is ClassicCmp? Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them. 1.3 What is a Classic Computer? _Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic. This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to work OK, so I've kept it. This definition has come under fire recently but remains the guideline. Remember that it is certainly flexible. The idea is to keep conversation on track, not to restrict what you can talk about. 1.4 Who runs this thing? That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw@u.washington.edu. 1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator? Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get back to you eventually. As an update, I've been _really_ hard to reach for the last couple months. Hopefully, this has now changed. Please keep in mind that this list is recreation for me, and I sometimes cannot devote any time to it. This does not indicate a lack of interest in the people or activities involved. 1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done. I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing anyway. 1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list? The daily load varies widely from about 20 messages to over 100. Average seems to be about (I haven't checked lately, will update) messages a day. There are times where the message load peaks for as much as a week. 1.8 How long has this list been around? The first message went out March 13, 1997. [][][][][][][][][] 2.1 What can I talk about? Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before posting. 2.2 Can I talk about PCs? Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC newsgroups. 2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations? There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception". 2.4 Can I post advertisements? Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course, use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there are members of this list in a number of different countries. If your post is commercial, please be sure to indicate that in some way in the subject line. 2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers? Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example, would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to find yourself a computer. 2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x. Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking out!" exactly means. 2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question? It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below). 2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?! (Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?) Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars. 2.9 Can I post trophy lists? Some people like to read other peoples' trophy lists, some do not. There have been times when most people have been interested in these and times when many wanted to see them banned. So, they remain - appreciated or tolerated and somewhat controversial. Can't make everyone happy all the time ;) 2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts? Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice. [][][][][][][][][][] 3.1 How many subscribers are there? Around 210 and changing daily. 3.2 How many subscribers use machine x? Check the web site (see below). The Classic Computer Encyclopedia shows the number of machines registered by subscribers. 3.3 Is this list archived? Yes. The archives are available on the FTP site (see below) in the directory /pub/classiccmp/archive. The file name format indicates the month/year of the archive. Keep in mind that they are quite large. [][][][][][][][][][] 4.1 Does ClassicCmp have a web site? Yep. http://haliotis.bothell.washington.edu/classiccmp 4.2 How come the web site is so ugly? How come a PET is so ugly? Who cares as long as it works? 4.3 Does ClassicCmp have an FTP site? Yes. Anonymous FTP at 140.142.225.188. Look in /pub/classiccmp. There's not much there that's not available on the web site. I'm starting to load old drivers and system disks on occasion. There is an incoming directory which subscribers may use for ClassicCmp-related file transfers if needed. [][][][][][][][][][] 5.1 Where can I find classic computers? The best places seem to be thrift stores and swap meets. These are closely followed by pawn shops and mom and pop computer stores. The holy grails are electronics scrap yards - but they tend to be wary of individual pick-and-choosers. Oh yeah - garage sales! 5.2 How much is machine x worth? Precisely as much as you'll pay for it. Oh, you're selling it? Then, precisely as much as I'll pay for it. Seriously, no one prices these any more. I have an old Computer Blue Book that lists many classic computers but the prices are just ridiculous. Some machines (Apple Lisa's, old old Mini's, and unreleased prototypes) are starting down the road toward their original selling prices but it's unlikely that most will ever be worth more than the cost of their components. 5.3 Will 1000's of innocent machines be scrapped if I don't save them? Yes. This is the impetus behind every collector's tireless and selfless effort. Each machine we fail to save has it's gold parts mercilessly hacked off and sold (just like rhino horns - and look at the rhinos). The remainder is then sent to China to be made into bicycle spokes (you probably think I'm joking). Save a computer! Act now! Remind your SO of the rhino and cuter, fuzzier animals. It might work. In all seriousness - there are a large (and growing) number of so called "computer and electronics 'recyclers'" who take usable computers and recycle them into "reusable scrap". Small amounts of gold, silver, and platinum are extracted and the remainder of the material is generally just marketed to less wasteful countries. 5.4 I don't understand anything. Help! Don't worry - you're not the only one. Reading this list, old magazines, books and whatever else you can get your hands on is the first step. Once you reach a critical mass of knowledge thigs get a lot easier. ============================================================================= From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 19 23:07:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Victor V386MX Message-ID: <706.420T1900T3675805optimus@canit.se> Is anyone familiar with the Victor V386MX? It's a miniscule 386 tower, only as wide as a 3,5" drive, and seems rather common around here. What's interesting about its architecture is that the CPU and graphics are placed on one sandwiched ISA board, which plugs into an ISA backplane carrying some extra electronics such as FDC. This week, though, I found another Victor CPU board, but carrying a 486SX instead, and with an additional PS/2 mouse port. It doesn't seem to have the IDE header, though. What kind of computer could this have been used in? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Jan 19 23:13:44 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com> Message-ID: There are other brands which work for booting as well, such as the Toshiba XM-5401B, XM-5701, etc which are probably less expensive than the DEC branded ones and work effectively the same. Paul On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, William W Webb wrote: > Fred, do a search for RRD40/42/43. These are the original DEC CD-ROM > drives that I absolutely positively know will work with these boxes- they > are jumperable to do 512 or 2048 byte sectors. (VMS requires drives that > do 512.) > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 19 23:21:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com> from "William W Webb" at Jan 19, 2001 11:51:58 PM Message-ID: <200101200521.VAA00752@shell1.aracnet.com> > RRD40s are really old and need a caddy. Don't both the 40's and 42's need caddies? With the 40 needing a really funky caddy that only DEC used, and the drive being somewhat slower than 1x? Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 19 23:23:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: from "Paul Thompson" at Jan 19, 2001 11:13:44 PM Message-ID: <200101200523.VAA00861@shell1.aracnet.com> > There are other brands which work for booting as well, such as the Toshiba > XM-5401B, XM-5701, etc which are probably less expensive than the DEC > branded ones and work effectively the same. I've gotten XM-5401B's for $5 apeice from a PC scrapper before, they're what is in my Alpha Workstations. What gets me is a RRD42 seems to cost as much as a brand new PC CD-ROM! Zane From marvin at rain.org Fri Jan 19 23:46:27 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy - Third Try References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> <003f01c08296$d9309940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <3A691EAF.3B121200@rain.org> <3A692205.F9BDC72F@rain.org> Message-ID: <3A692633.929C63EF@rain.org> Hmmm, I tried to send the real Part 1 twice and it didn't come through; maybe too much outdated information. Anyway, it didn't have much that was useful at this point. Maybe at least the table of contents will make it through this time. ============================================================================= DO NOT DISPOSE OF THIS PART OF THE FAQ. THIS IS THE PART THAT EXPLAINS HOW YOU CAN SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE. IT WILL TAKE ME MORE TIME TO DO THESE THINGS FOR YOU THAN IT WILL TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THEM YOURSELF ============================================================================= ClassicCmp - The Classic Computers Discussion List Part 1 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy Mail/Internet Basics FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) v1.3 Last Update: 12/10/97 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Updates: Nothing new, cosmetic changes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Mailing Lists ---------------- 1.1 Mailing List Basics 1.2 How to Talk to the Robot How to set to Digest How to Subscribe How to Unsubscribe 2. FTP ------ 2.1 FTP Basics 3. World Wide Web ----------------- 3.1 WWW Basics ============================================================================= From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jan 20 00:04:23 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: part number for VAXStation 3100/M76 color option? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010119215612.027fa7d0@208.226.86.10> Hello everyone, Anyone know where I would find the DEC part number for a VS3100/M76 color option board? I've got a board labeled "VS40X 8 Plane COlor Option" but I don't know if it would work in a M76 or not. --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 20 00:18:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Vaxstation 2000 hard drive bracket References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> <003f01c08296$d9309940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <3A691EAF.3B121200@rain.org> <3A692205.F9BDC72F@rain.org> <3A692633.929C63EF@rain.org> Message-ID: <002701c082a8$dd160ba0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I recently acquired a Vaxstation 2000 box in order to use it as a hard disk enclosure. Unfortunately, the tray/bracket or whatever they normally have in place to hold the HDD was missing. I was hopeful that someone had a drawing of the thing with some dimensional information so I can manufacture an equivalent. Has anyone got a print? thanx, Dick From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 20 01:35:05 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Digital 72 pin memory In-Reply-To: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: I seem to remember somebody was looking for some Digital memory. I finally got around to sorting a 10 lb box the other night, and found (3) 4 MB 72 parity, and (2) 4 MB 72 pin non parity, plus 1 4 MB 72 pin simm with a sticker on the back saying PDP. $6 including shipping via first class mail. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 20 01:42:19 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com> Message-ID: >Fred, do a search for RRD40/42/43. These are the original DEC CD-ROM >drives that I absolutely positively know will work with these boxes- they >are jumperable to do 512 or 2048 byte sectors. (VMS requires drives that >do 512.) > >RRD40s are really old and need a caddy. A SPECIAL only fits them caddy too. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 20 06:42:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 In-Reply-To: <001601c0828e$1dc0dec0$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <716.420T1650T8225595optimus@canit.se> Fred deBros skrev: >I want to load netBSD 1.5 on my VAX 3100/76 that has only HDD and Floppy. >The CD is bootable, so a CD ROM would greatly facilitate things >Any of those critters around, with cables/enclosure/bezel? Can't the VAX netboot? Otherwise, try removing the hard drive and dd a boot image onto it, then proceed by installing over the network. I wonder if the VAX needs 512-byte sector CD drives like the DECstations. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 20 06:45:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <1455.208.227.9.12.979961038.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <2254.420T2950T8256903optimus@canit.se> Eric Smith skrev: >> And now for the 10 000$ question: what /is/ differential SCSI? In what >> way does it differ? >It may be a $10K question, but you get a free answer, and hopefully worth >every penny. :-) >Differential SCSI is electrically completely incompatible with "normal" >(single-ended) SCSI. Differential is now called High-Voltage >Differential, or HVD, to distinguish it from the new Low-Voltage >Differential (LVD). >Single-ended signalling means that each signal pair has one signal that >is at TTL level (under 0.8V for logic 0, above 2.0V for logic 1), and a >signal return at ground level. Note that the active signal never carries >a negative voltage with respect to the return. (In reality there may >be short undershoots due to "ringing"; one of the functions of termination >is to minimize this.) >Differential signalling actively drives both signals of a pair. For a logic >0, one signal (called "true") is driven low, and the other ("complement") >is driven high. For a logic 1, the reverse is done. Note that this means >that the true signal voltage can be either positive or negative with >respect to the complement signal. >Differential signalling is preferred because it is more reliable, >especially when used with long cables. Many high-end servers and >workstations (e.g., IBM, HP, Sun) used HVD for this reason. >Unfortunately, HVD uses exactly the same connectors as single-ended SCSI, >though it will not interoperate unless you use a converter (generally >fairly expensive). >The newer LVD operates on the same principle but at lower voltage levels. >LVD signalling is not compatible with either HVD or single-ended. However >(before everyone jumps all over me), LVD devices will detect that they >are plugged into a single-ended SCSI bus, and switch to single-ended >signalling. Thus you can mix LVD and single-ended SCSI devices on one >bus, but you do not get the benefits of LVD signalling when you do so. Thank you for the exhaustive explanation. But does this mean that differential SCSI doesn't have any ground pins, instead using these for the complement? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 20 07:43:08 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 References: <716.420T1650T8225595optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000801c082e6$ecfd8320$0100a8c0@jack> > I wonder if the VAX needs 512-byte sector CD drives like the DECstations. yes it does! fred From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 20 07:46:44 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: part number for VAXStation 3100/M76 color option? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010119215612.027fa7d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <001701c082e7$6d903f00$0100a8c0@jack> > Hello everyone, > > Anyone know where I would find the DEC part number for a VS3100/M76 color > option board? > --Chuck > Try http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vs3100/index.html fred From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sat Jan 20 07:54:16 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 Message-ID: <20010120135416.EC09A20F28@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-01-19 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said: >There are other brands which work for booting as well, such as the >Toshiba XM-5401B, XM-5701, etc which are probably less expensive >than the DEC branded ones and work effectively the same. >Paul >On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, William W Webb wrote: >> Fred, do a search for RRD40/42/43. These are the original DEC >>CD-ROM drives that I absolutely positively know will work with >>these boxes- they are jumperable to do 512 or 2048 byte sectors. >>(VMS requires drives that do 512.) Any CDROM drive that can be switched to 512 byte sectors will work on the VAXstation. Sun computers also want 512 byte sectors, so a drive from a Sun system is usable too. A list of drives that (might) work: VAX compatible CD drives Below is a list of SCSI CD drives known or believed to work with VAX systems. The basic requirement is support for 512-byte block size. Some information (entries marked with a "*") was extracted from the Sun CD-ROM FAQ - most older Sun workstations share the 512 byte block size requirement. The FAQ also has additional details about some of the drives listed below, as well as instructions on how to modify certain models of Toshiba CD-ROM drives to change their block size. DEC RRD40, slow, first generation CD-ROM DEC RRD42, 1X DEC RRD43 DEC RRD45 DEC RRD46 (*) Plextor 4x/6x/8x/10x/12x (*) Plextor 12x/20x PlexWriter RW 4/2/20 Most, if not all Plextor drives. See http://www.plextor.com and check if the drive has a jumper of DIP-switch for block size. (*) Hitachi CDR-1750S (*) Laser Magnetic Storage International Company (LMSI) CM234, 1X (*) Panasonic CR-503B, 2X (*) Panasonic CD-506B, 8X (*) Pioneer 4.4x SCSI-2 (*) Pioneer DRM600/DRM604X (*) Sony CDU-541/561/8012 Sony CDU55 -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 20 08:14:51 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: new additions and a sad story References: <6b.eb5a747.2799d41c@aol.com> Message-ID: <006801c082ec$0382f260$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 12:32 PM Subject: new additions and a sad story > for it, a guy had mentioned to me that if i had been in an adjacent county a > few days ago, i could have gotten a lot of other computers. He said many > apples (dont know what models) where simply thrown in the dumpster because > they didnt know what to do with them. I guess the hard part is how to let non > computer types know of computer rescuing people ready to avert this kind of > tragedy. They have regular collections here in Ottawa, I was at the last one and saw them haul a way a large dumpster filled to the top. I managed to get 2 old MAC's from the bin, but there were machines in there that I'd never seen before. It was another push that got my collection growing and me started with a program to get the not-so-classic-but-reusable machines refurbished and out to people to keep them running till they do become classics. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 20 08:38:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Part 3 in the ClassicCmp FAQ Trilogy In-Reply-To: <3A691EB8.FB79B6C5@rain.org> References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> <003f01c08296$d9309940$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <3A691EB8.FB79B6C5@rain.org> Message-ID: Marvin, Thanks for finding and posting these. I thought I remembered Bill creating such a FAQ not long after the list went online, but wasn't sure. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ncherry at home.net Sat Jan 20 09:48:43 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: part number for VAXStation 3100/M76 color option? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010119215612.027fa7d0@208.226.86.10> <001701c082e7$6d903f00$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <3A69B35B.A08B34D1@home.net> I've had good luck with Compaq CD drives, they have a jumper on the back for size but I didn't change it and it worked. I got mine out of a few weird Proliant systems we had spare. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 20 11:52:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Digital 72 pin memory In-Reply-To: References: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I seem to remember somebody was looking for some Digital memory. I finally >got around to sorting a 10 lb box the other night, and found (3) 4 MB 72 >parity, FYI, this will most likely work in the following (though except for the VAX you need pairs): VAXstation 4000/VLC Alpha Multia DEC 3000/300LX (IIRC, this one wants banks of 4) AlphaStation 200 It'll probably work on some other alphas, those are just the ones I know off the top of my head. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 20 12:45:55 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Disassembling Gateway Solo and P3C laptops? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010120124438.0232d100@pc> At 05:53 PM 1/19/01 +0000, jpero wrote: >Be specific. There are many Solo models based on numbers by gateway >and bad news, gateway owns only this design, and there are no >other notebooks that has this design. > >But, what that P3C? That's not solo. One is a P-75, it doesn't say "Solo" it says "P3C" on the bottom label. Judging by eBay items, this is the laptop's designation. Search eBay for P3C and there are plenty of hits. The other is a P-90 and it *does* say just "Solo" so I think that makes it a 2000 in terms of the model numbers that followed in that line. The case is quite identical to the other. Any help would be appreciated! They're circa 1994-5, so they're only half on topic... as opposed to Bill Gate's personality traits, which are older than 10 years and therefore on topic. - John From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 20 13:54:20 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 Message-ID: <009001c0831b$8762d210$d0759a8d@ajp166> >Can't the VAX netboot? It can but you need a network partner that understands MOP boot such as another VMS box. Allison From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 20 14:47:11 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 References: <009001c0831b$8762d210$d0759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001101c08322$29b9c0e0$0100a8c0@jack> > >Can't the VAX netboot? > > > It can but you need a network partner that understands MOP boot such as > another VMS box. > > Allison Linux has a MOPserver, but its a bitch to setup.I got mine running after a day.... Its easier to get a bootable cd and a CDROM and take it from there. fred From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 20 18:35:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 In-Reply-To: <009001c0831b$8762d210$d0759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <486.421T1800T955849optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >>Can't the VAX netboot? >It can but you need a network partner that understands MOP boot such as >another VMS box. MOP d?mons are available for BSDs and Linux, too, IIRC. Have a look at http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/pmax for instructions. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Georgie beundrade stor?gt sin pappa som med v?ldsamma slag gick l?s p? det stora tr?det. Han badade i svett, och den muskul?sa kroppen bl?nkte i solskenet. Hon ?lskade honom. Lady Georgie, TMS 1983 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 20 18:50:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 In-Reply-To: <001101c08322$29b9c0e0$0100a8c0@jack> References: <009001c0831b$8762d210$d0759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >> >Can't the VAX netboot? >> >> >> It can but you need a network partner that understands MOP boot such as >> another VMS box. >> >> Allison > >Linux has a MOPserver, but its a bitch to setup.I got mine running after a >day.... Hey no problem, just publish the IP address of your server and let everybody use it. ;) From red at bears.org Sat Jan 20 18:57:42 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: SMD cabling information / Symbolics know-nothings Message-ID: Derek Peschel and I are sitting here scratching our heads making confused noises trying to figure out why my Symbolics is broken. It worked (to a point) before I moved to this new house. Now it's not working even tot hat point. Power good. We can't get the FEP booted. I wonder if I haven't gotten the SMD disk hooked up correctly? At the drive end, there ar four possibilities for where to connect the 60-pin A cable, and two possibilities for where to connect the B cable. I have a terminator. We have wasted lots of time searching the web for this informaiton. How do I hook up the drive so I know it's connected properly? It's a 760 MB CDC Sabre 9720. Help! ok r. ps. Does anybody know enough about these machines to help me troubleshoot it? I think the basic parts all work, but just not yet together. It's a Symbolics 3650. From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Jan 20 18:59:14 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: List FAQ In-Reply-To: <511.420T1050T335199optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Item #1 should be "No Microsoft Bashing. If you want to troll, go to comp.os.micrsoft.advocacy" On 20 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Zane H. Healy skrev: > > >>Can someone send me the List FAQ > > >Is there a FAQ? This is the second request I've seen for one in the last > >week (the other was sent directly to me). To the best of my knowledge > >there isn't, but probably should be. > > Should there? What would it cover? There have been a lot of systems produced > as of 1991, and covering all these would indeed prove troublesome. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. > --- Vittorio de Sica > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 20 19:09:26 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: AT&T Scsi Drive Specs In-Reply-To: <2254.420T2950T8256903optimus@canit.se> References: <2254.420T2950T8256903optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4490.208.227.9.12.980039366.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > does this mean that > differential SCSI doesn't have any ground pins, instead using these for > the complement? There are some ground lines, but not nearly as many as in single-ended SCSI. "Narrow" SCSI has 9 data lines (8+parity) and 9 control lines, so there are 18 differential pairs. Another interesting feature of HVD (high voltage differential) SCSI is that there are no "active terminators". The terminations are just single resistors (110 ohm? I forget.) between the signals of a pair. No termination voltage source needed. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 20 20:00:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: SMD cabling information / Symbolics know-nothings References: Message-ID: <001101c0834d$f1f10980$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Though a few system mfg's, notably DEC, still used them well into the '80's, SMD was a thing of the past by '86 or so, since ESDI, IPI, SCSI, and even ST506 were quite capable of surpassing its performance at a teensy fraction of the cost at the controller, at the drive, and even in the cabling. My CDC Lark drive seems to have gotten by on one 60-pin cable and one 26-pin together with the KONAN controller I used. I do seem to remember the typical SMD drive had four 60-pin connectors. If you don't have any luck before then, check back with me on, say, Tuesday, by which time I should have found my CDC spec for SMD. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 5:57 PM Subject: SMD cabling information / Symbolics know-nothings > > Derek Peschel and I are sitting here scratching our heads making confused > noises trying to figure out why my Symbolics is broken. > > It worked (to a point) before I moved to this new house. Now it's not > working even tot hat point. > > Power good. We can't get the FEP booted. > > I wonder if I haven't gotten the SMD disk hooked up correctly? > > At the drive end, there ar four possibilities for where to connect the > 60-pin A cable, and two possibilities for where to connect the B cable. I > have a terminator. We have wasted lots of time searching the web for this > informaiton. > > How do I hook up the drive so I know it's connected properly? It's a 760 > MB CDC Sabre 9720. > > Help! > > ok > r. > > ps. Does anybody know enough about these machines to help me troubleshoot > it? I think the basic parts all work, but just not yet together. It's a > Symbolics 3650. > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 20 20:14:43 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 Message-ID: <002601c08350$76173a70$d0759a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >ajp166 skrev: > >>>Can't the VAX netboot? > >>It can but you need a network partner that understands MOP boot such as >>another VMS box. > >MOP d?mons are available for BSDs and Linux, too, IIRC. Have a look at >http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/pmax for instructions. I know about linux MOP. I suggested VMS box as they already know how. Also for those that dont know or havent tried, the image the mop loader sends out does nto have to be VMS. We used it for ELN and other toys at DEC. Allison From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 20 19:57:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: A challenge to Bill Gates (was: Interact) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > If it was closer, I'd be attending; heck, it sounds like it might be so > much fun that, even if undersirable elements like Bill Gates were in > attendance, I'd still show up. :-) > > Good luck with it! Any more news on a VCF east? I'm still going through preliminary stuff. Mainly, right now I'm trying to decide on a location that will make the most sense. A solid announcement on it should come out in mid-February. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 20 23:42:52 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4170 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010121004252.3ea71fd6@mailhost.intellistar.net> I took at bunch of pictures of the inside and outside of the 4170 today. I'm posting them to "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/tek-4170/". There's no text there, only pictures at the moment, so you'll have to be satisfied with looking at the pictures for the time being. I hope to put up a page tomorrow with links and some descriptions. I also scanned the page that describes the 4170 in the 1985 Tektronix catalog and posted it there as well. I *think* I may have found the right serial cable to connect it to the terminal today but I also found that my only Tektronix terminal is acting peculiar (it won't let me into the set up mode!) I'll try hooking up the terminal tomorrow and if it doesn't work then I'll have to go look for another terminal. Keeping my fingers crossed! Joe From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 21 00:20:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4170 References: <3.0.1.16.20010121004252.3ea71fd6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001b01c08372$4c6a01e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Hey! Has anybody got good logic analyzer pictures of the signals on the S-100 driven by the really early 8080 CPU cards? I'm looking to get a reference document for that signal set so I can approximate it with signals derived from a Z80. I have several "middle-period" cpu's, but no 8080 CPU cards from the pre-Z80 days. I can make my own pictures from the middle period (early Z80) CPU's, e.g. CCS, SD Systems, etc, and I have a couple of '696 standard CPU's as well, though they're quite different one from the other. I anybody has, or knows of such documents, please let me know. Dick From red at bears.org Sun Jan 21 03:48:00 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: SMD cabling information / Symbolics know-nothings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Jan 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > How do I hook up the drive so I know it's connected properly? It's a 760 > MB CDC Sabre 9720. I could use an explanation of how to interpret the diagnostic LEDs, too, if somebody's got a manual. ok r. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 21 03:56:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <002201c07b56$b5023ac0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: Just a FYI you don't see these come up very often, Dash30fx, 50 mhz hot rod of a IIfx mac. $50 s&h put me off bidding. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208740462 From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sun Jan 21 07:37:48 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On top of a fairly high reserve too I'm sure. The present bid is by a guy at Mac.com - may be an employee or someone that uses Apple's info service - but otherwise someone involved the the Apple/mac world. It doesn't even have a monitor and he wants that much to ship/pack? The bad part is that he'll probably get what he wants though. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 3:56 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: eBay Dash30fx Just a FYI you don't see these come up very often, Dash30fx, 50 mhz hot rod of a IIfx mac. $50 s&h put me off bidding. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208740462 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Jan 21 09:51:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010110110315.0287c620@pc> Message-ID: <000b01c083c1$fb0f8900$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yes, $50 is quite a bit to pay for shipping, but in some cases, that's what it costs! That unit looks big enough to cost that much, particularly if it's being carefully and toroughtly packaged. It must be a pretty rare unit, though. I had to ship my Okidata Laser printer for repair a few years back, and it went 3 times, at $53 each time. Now, it's a nice printer, but ... that was supposed to be warranty service, after all ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 2:56 AM Subject: eBay Dash30fx > Just a FYI you don't see these come up very often, Dash30fx, 50 mhz hot rod > of a IIfx mac. $50 s&h put me off bidding. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208740462 > > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 21 09:51:40 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Windes ME References: <3.0.1.32.20010118213619.007dd100@mail.iname.com> Message-ID: <008c01c083c2$0c83eb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Has anyone here heard of this? I just had an email saying that this had the functionality of Win ME but ran on older machines. They have a web site which adds suspision. http://216.183.9.122/windesme From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Jan 21 10:01:22 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com> Message-ID: <20010121160112.ZJFY15630.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I tried several drives from different makers. All were 512byte jumperable and would boot backup from the cd, but when you try to perform the restore, the system bombs. After about a week of diddling, I went and got an RRD40. Slower than molassis in January, but it works and the others didn't. Regards, Jeff P.S. From experience, you don't NEED a caddy for an RRD40. I don't have one either. I just opened the drive and replaced the disk already inside it with my VMS install cd. You need at least the horseshoe part of the caddy, but not the whole thing. Regards, Jeff In <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com>, on 01/21/01 at 11:01 AM, William W Webb said: >Fred, do a search for RRD40/42/43. These are the original DEC CD-ROM >drives that I absolutely positively know will work with these boxes- they >are jumperable to do 512 or 2048 byte sectors. (VMS requires drives that >do 512.) >RRD40s are really old and need a caddy. >You might be interested to know that I've got the Owner's Guide for the >VAXstation 3100 Model 76 online at: >http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html >I'm considering doing the VAXstation 4000 VLC manual next, but only if >there's a demand for it since that much HTML pretty much by hand is a >real bitch. >William W. Webb >I don't know if it's outside of the scope of this mailing list to talk >about things for sale, but I've got hold of some old 64 x 64 bit core >frames that would look really nice in a shadowbox or under glass as a >desktop doodad. >Mfr. Lockheed Electronics Corp. >I can also lay my hands on a 4K module (9 frames with diode arrray >connector cards) >If anybody's interested, drop me an email and we'll talk about price. >Apologies in advance if I've transgressed. >________________________________________________________________ GET >INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 21 10:11:31 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: IBM 399* References: <335.420T2650T1686095optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <00aa01c083c4$d2764990$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Was in the local recyclers and noticed 4 of these monsters sitting on a palette. They said they had more. They are about the size of a photocopier paper box, dark grey finned cases with a IBM 399* ( the asterix was on the label) 40 kg label on one end. Are these guts for a 3390? Nicely shock mounted on big rubber mounts. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 10:16:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <008c01c083c2$0c83eb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: <3.0.1.32.20010118213619.007dd100@mail.iname.com> <008c01c083c2$0c83eb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: >Has anyone here heard of this? > >I just had an email saying that this had the functionality >of Win ME but ran on older machines. They have a web site >which adds suspision. > > http://216.183.9.122/windesme From thier website, I'd say it's functionality is as a 'work-alike' that they've made to have the same 'look' as Windows 2000 and which they've written a few applications for. it says nothing about actually being compatible. Maybe a shell running on top of something like a FreeDOS base? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Jan 21 10:19:32 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:17 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: <200101200523.VAA00861@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20010121161728.ZRBX15630.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> My perfectly good XM5701 cdrom drive would not restore the VMS image to disk. Instead it bombs badly. (Vaxstation 4000/60, OVMS 07.2b In <200101200523.VAA00861@shell1.aracnet.com>, on 01/21/01 at 11:19 AM, healyzh@aracnet.com said: >> There are other brands which work for booting as well, such as the Toshiba >> XM-5401B, XM-5701, etc which are probably less expensive than the DEC >> branded ones and work effectively the same. >I've gotten XM-5401B's for $5 apeice from a PC scrapper before, they're >what is in my Alpha Workstations. What gets me is a RRD42 seems to cost >as much as a brand new PC CD-ROM! > Zane -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Jan 21 10:41:02 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 In-Reply-To: <20010121161728.ZRBX15630.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: I have used this model (XM5701B) on the 3100/M76 with no problems. As well as a RS/6000-220 which has notoriously finicky scsi. On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > My perfectly good XM5701 cdrom drive would not restore the VMS image to > disk. Instead it bombs badly. (Vaxstation 4000/60, OVMS 07.2b From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sun Jan 21 10:38:04 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If they had a download of a limited term copy of it I might give it a shot but to force you to buy it without a working test version they won't get very far, not to mention it seems that it won't run regular Windows program. I'll keep my 286's in DOS and Win3.11 - they work just fine for anything I need including internet access, when necessary. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:16 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Windes ME >Has anyone here heard of this? > >I just had an email saying that this had the functionality >of Win ME but ran on older machines. They have a web site >which adds suspision. > > http://216.183.9.122/windesme From thier website, I'd say it's functionality is as a 'work-alike' that they've made to have the same 'look' as Windows 2000 and which they've written a few applications for. it says nothing about actually being compatible. Maybe a shell running on top of something like a FreeDOS base? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jan 21 11:00:51 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Who wants/needs a DEC CDROM RRD42 ? (trade or free) Message-ID: <004401c083cb$b5f361c0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi I dont collect DEC/VAX stuff but I have one of these here. Cant tell ya if it works. But takes the CD in and ejects, led seems to behave normally. I dont have the original caddy. Someone told me to keep it for him but have not heard from him in a very long time...I cant recall who, perhaps he will read this and put his hand up... I picked it up when I had the opportunity to empty out a VAX8350 of all its 13 boards (free for cost of shipping given away here on mailing list) Would love to make someone happy. I have no use for this. Most probably will go into garbage soon if no takers...I have idea of its value. Would accept a trade for anything micro 8-16 bits 197x-198x early 1990s that I could add to my collection. See my current list at : http://computer_collector.tripod.com Claude Canuk Computer Collector -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/28c367ba/attachment.html From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 11:03:02 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: vax 4000vlc Message-ID: <001201c083cc$08d9ea80$0100a8c0@jack> I'm considering doing the VAXstation 4000 VLC manual next It being the most ubiquitous box and one that takes regular 4mb simms and has a big hdd, and one that is supported on the latest netBSD V 1.5, do that! And link both pages (the 3100/76 and the 4000VLC manual) to the netbsd.org site, please, I would like to encourage yo to do it! Certainly your 3100/76 Manual is excellent work, it was very helpful to me, Jeff, a big THANK YOU.It matches nicely the www.vaxarchive.org/hw/vs3100/index.html Do you have also the VT 1300 Manual? Or even better: The VRE01 Manual? VRE01 being that flatpanel display (see attached!) that works on the b/w mono card in 1-bit mode I guess, not 8-bit (GPX vs SPX) My 4000VLC's have all the fancy 256 colour framebuffer (?) and no b/w only provision, so I guess I cannot use them for that monitor unfortunaley.A good set of pix can be found on www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/album/h10002.jpg Again: Thanks. As to the CD I found a cr 503b = compaq 142223-201 that is listed as compatible.....lets hope it does the trick. Fred -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/108eab64/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Jan 21 12:14:10 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Possible Rescue: Intel IPSC 860 Message-ID: <3a6b26ea.4379005@mailhost.intellistar.net> I found this in a news group, If anyone is interested reply directly to the originator. Joe In comp.sys.intel.ipsc310, wrote: >Anyone interested in a possible donation of an Intel IPSC 860 SuperComputer, >a spare chassis, and many, many related spare parts & boards, along with a >ton of software and manuals please contact me. We used these for digital >video processing but the nature of digital video has changed along with the >ease of processing with modern computing systems has made this obsolete for >digital video applications. > >Again, we are willing to donate this to the organization the will give it >proper care and feeding. Otherwise it will be in a landfill in the near >future. Yes, you have to pay all shipping and transport costs or pick it up >in Southern California. > >Please contact me at dkitchen@hotmail.com > > > From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 11:17:57 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME References: <3.0.1.32.20010118213619.007dd100@mail.iname.com> <008c01c083c2$0c83eb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <003a01c083ce$1be63ff0$0100a8c0@jack> On a 286 with 20mb hdd and 640k of ram? A shell sure. > .... adds suspision. > > http://216.183.9.122/windesme > >Anybody try it? I dont have 286's anymore.... Fred From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 11:25:17 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Who wants/needs a DEC CDROM RRD42 ? (trade or free) References: <004401c083cb$b5f361c0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <006e01c083cf$23bfdfa0$0100a8c0@jack> I could use it soon! reply privately to fdebros@bellatlantic.net Claude Canuk Computer Collector -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/ff376ddd/attachment.html From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 11:39:47 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 Message-ID: <007c01c083d1$e94fd2a0$d0759a8d@ajp166> I'm using a Toshiba and works great. Tried several sanyos, and even a Cdburner (scsi) all worked. Allison -----Original Message----- From: THETechnoid@home.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: Re: CD-ROM drive for VAXstation 3100 Model 76 >I tried several drives from different makers. All were 512byte jumperable >and would boot backup from the cd, but when you try to perform the >restore, the system bombs. > >After about a week of diddling, I went and got an RRD40. Slower than >molassis in January, but it works and the others didn't. > >Regards, > >Jeff > >P.S. From experience, you don't NEED a caddy for an RRD40. I don't have >one either. I just opened the drive and replaced the disk already inside >it with my VMS install cd. You need at least the horseshoe part of the >caddy, but not the whole thing. > > >Regards, > >Jeff > >In <20010119.235201.307.0.william.webb@juno.com>, on 01/21/01 > at 11:01 AM, William W Webb said: > >>Fred, do a search for RRD40/42/43. These are the original DEC CD-ROM >>drives that I absolutely positively know will work with these boxes- they >>are jumperable to do 512 or 2048 byte sectors. (VMS requires drives that >>do 512.) > >>RRD40s are really old and need a caddy. > >>You might be interested to know that I've got the Owner's Guide for the >>VAXstation 3100 Model 76 online at: > >>http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html > >>I'm considering doing the VAXstation 4000 VLC manual next, but only if >>there's a demand for it since that much HTML pretty much by hand is a >>real bitch. > >>William W. Webb > >>I don't know if it's outside of the scope of this mailing list to talk >>about things for sale, but I've got hold of some old 64 x 64 bit core >>frames that would look really nice in a shadowbox or under glass as a >>desktop doodad. >>Mfr. Lockheed Electronics Corp. > >>I can also lay my hands on a 4K module (9 frames with diode arrray >>connector cards) > >>If anybody's interested, drop me an email and we'll talk about price. > >>Apologies in advance if I've transgressed. >>________________________________________________________________ GET >>INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >>Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >>Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >>http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jeffrey S. Worley >President >Complete Computer Services, Inc. >30 Greenwood Rd. >Asheville, NC 28803 >828-277-5959 >Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com >THETechnoid@home.com >----------------------------------------------------------- > > From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Jan 21 11:54:09 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 In-Reply-To: <716.420T1650T8225595optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010121175437.BLGU15630.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> DD'ing the cd image to hard disk works for my sparcstation, but I'd probably do an FTP install from a local machine. Then all you need to do is dd the miniroot to the hard disk to boot and install. Dinking around with cdrom drives on these old workstations will make your head grey. I use the network as much as possible to avoid them. I had to use the rrd for VMS, but you could install netbsd from paper tape just about. Regards, Jeff In <716.420T1650T8225595optimus@canit.se>, on 01/21/01 at 12:54 PM, "Iggy Drougge" said: >Can't the VAX netboot? >Otherwise, try removing the hard drive and dd a boot image onto it, then >proceed by installing over the network. >I wonder if the VAX needs 512-byte sector CD drives like the >DECstations -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 11:48:10 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME Message-ID: <009101c083d4$0a42f6c0$d0759a8d@ajp166> There is another set of packages I know are real that work even 8086s that are very small but this one claims more and is far smaller. I'm not a believer. FYI: it's only 2mb! Even the dos 6.22kit is larger and www.newdealinc.com stuff wants something like 5mb zipped. Also MSwindows ME is on Win98 base which does run (slowly) on 386s. It runs better if you apply 98lite to it and get rid of the IE5x and some of the other sillyness. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Hellige To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Re: Windes ME >>Has anyone here heard of this? >> >>I just had an email saying that this had the functionality >>of Win ME but ran on older machines. They have a web site >>which adds suspision. >> >> http://216.183.9.122/windesme > > From thier website, I'd say it's functionality is as a >'work-alike' that they've made to have the same 'look' as Windows >2000 and which they've written a few applications for. it says >nothing about actually being compatible. Maybe a shell running on >top of something like a FreeDOS base? > > Jeff >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 12:17:13 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <009101c083d4$0a42f6c0$d0759a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Jan 21, 1 12:48:10 pm" Message-ID: <200101211817.KAA03660@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > There is another set of packages I know are real that work even 8086s > that are very small but this one claims more and is far smaller. I'm > not a believer. > > FYI: it's only 2mb! Even the dos 6.22kit is larger and > www.newdealinc.com > stuff wants something like 5mb zipped. That's PC/GEOS. Trust me, it works. I was a PC/GEOS believer back in the early days and I think it's one fabulous GUI. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. -- Albert Einstein ------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 12:07:50 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4170 Message-ID: <009801c083d6$29aa71d0$d0759a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >Has anybody got good logic analyzer pictures of the signals on the S-100 >driven by the really early 8080 CPU cards? I'm looking to get a reference Real simple start with a schematic of the MITS 8080 or IMSAI 8080 CPU card so you get to see how much buffering (mostly and only) and combinational logic applied to some signals (nearly none). Then get an 8080 datasheet, that IS THE TIMING for early S100. All of the later Z80, 6502, 6800, LSI-11, TI9900, COSMAC, 8085 and 808X to name a few boards tried to approximate that timing (before it morphed to IEE696) with combinational logic. Allison From vcf at siconic.com Sun Jan 21 11:38:43 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card Message-ID: Ok, I have not had any responses on my request to buy a TRS-80 Expansion Interface serial board. I am really getting desperate now. I don't need to keep the board so if anyone is willing to lend or even RENT me one then that would be fine. $$$ Please reply to . Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Jan 21 13:10:17 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: NetBSD on a Quadra? Message-ID: <3A6B33B4.221547B3@eoni.com> If there's a listmember or two that are running NetBSD on an Apple quadra, or knows their way around BSD, could you please p-mail me? I'm having a bit of a problem getting it to come up. Thx. Jim From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Jan 21 13:15:48 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: References: <008c01c083c2$0c83eb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3A6AEF14.9267.594E5C4@localhost> And then of course there's Calmira. A W9x look-a-like GUI that works on top of Win 3.1. I think it's still free. I have it on a 386 on top of W3.1, on top of DRDOS. Larry > >Has anyone here heard of this? > > > >I just had an email saying that this had the functionality > >of Win ME but ran on older machines. They have a web site > >which adds suspision. > > > > http://216.183.9.122/windesme > > From thier website, I'd say it's functionality is as a > 'work-alike' that they've made to have the same 'look' as Windows 2000 > and which they've written a few applications for. it says nothing > about actually being compatible. Maybe a shell running on top of > something like a FreeDOS base? > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 13:34:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Ok, I have not had any responses on my request to buy a TRS-80 Expansion >Interface serial board. I am really getting desperate now. > >I don't need to keep the board so if anyone is willing to lend or even >RENT me one then that would be fine. I'd lend you mine, but it gets around the flakey connection issue by soldering about a 6 inch piece of ribbon cable to the bottom of serial card and the other end to the IE's connector for the card, then placing a piece of non-conductive material between the two so that the cable can be doubled over and the serial card held in place using two screws. Unfortunately, this makes the serial board unremovable. It has had the connectors on the outside updated with gold contacts as well. Now if only I had a working double density board for it as mine either died or has gone out of spec very badly. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 13:05:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: SMD cabling information / Symbolics know-nothings In-Reply-To: <001101c0834d$f1f10980$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 20, 1 07:00:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3012 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/81cf97e7/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 13:45:24 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME Message-ID: <00ac01c083e2$d287da20$d0759a8d@ajp166> From: Cameron Kaiser >> FYI: it's only 2mb! Even the dos 6.22kit is larger and >> www.newdealinc.com > >That's PC/GEOS. Trust me, it works. I was a PC/GEOS believer back in the >early days and I think it's one fabulous GUI. Dont have to trust you, I've got it and it does work very well. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 13:48:05 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <200101211817.KAA03660@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200101211817.KAA03660@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >That's PC/GEOS. Trust me, it works. I was a PC/GEOS believer back in the >early days and I think it's one fabulous GUI. Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 14:04:23 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME References: <008c01c083c2$0c83eb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <3A6AEF14.9267.594E5C4@localhost> Message-ID: <001701c083e5$599e9b50$0100a8c0@jack> > And then of course there's Calmira. A W9x look-a-like GUI that > works on top of Win 3.1. I think it's still free. I have it on a 386 on > top of W3.1, on top of DRDOS. > > Larry Thats a win 3.x shell and on a 486 laptop like the toshiba 4600c or 4800ct with 20mb runs remarkably fast andd smooth and looks funny....but try to setup a network neighborhood or a dual function pcmcia or ppp....good luck and lots of aspirin. Was DRDOS with its Netware utils helpful? Fred From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 14:06:35 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Ways to bounce a 1541 Message-ID: <200101212006.MAA10260@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Well, this is more a brag than something constructive, but I wrote my first automatic Commodore 1541 disk drive re-aligner out of desperation this weekend. I couldn't get it to read any disks and since this drive was the internal 5.25" in the 128DCR, I couldn't just replace it. So I wrote a program that commanded the FDC to whack the head into the restraining rail until it could read the disk again. Voila. ;-) The things you do when you're desperate ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin ----------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 14:09:55 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jan 21, 1 02:48:05 pm" Message-ID: <200101212009.MAA10542@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >That's PC/GEOS. Trust me, it works. I was a PC/GEOS believer back in the > >early days and I think it's one fabulous GUI. > > Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have > never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I > like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the > high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. New Deal *is* PC/GEOS -- same kernel, same everything, just different name. The Commodore and Apple GEOSes are related to PC/GEOS in name only. Interestingly, if one looks at the Berkeley Softworks nee GeoWorks specs for Apple and C64 GEOS, there were some hooks to make the two platforms cross-compatible. Clever. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! ------------------------------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 14:11:49 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <3A6AEF14.9267.594E5C4@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Jan 21, 1 02:15:48 pm" Message-ID: <200101212011.MAA07990@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And then of course there's Calmira. A W9x look-a-like GUI that > works on top of Win 3.1. I think it's still free. I have it on a 386 on > top of W3.1, on top of DRDOS. I'd like to see that! I use Win 3.1 on my beat-up 3MB 486 laptop which I use for Star Commander and doing regular backups of the 95LX. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- WWJD? JWRTFM. -------------------------------------------------------------- From alex at linuxhacker.org Sun Jan 21 14:14:56 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables Message-ID: Hi, does anyone know where I can get hold of Sun monitor cables (ideally in the UK)? I have four SS2 pizza boxes, an IPX, monitors, keyboards, mice, and lots of external drives, but no monitor cables! I did get one of them running after wiring the monitor with individual soldered wires from connector to connector, and I have also had a couple of them running over a serial console, but I'd like to get some proper monitor leads so that I can set them up and sell them as full systems (I want to keep one for my collection, but the rest are just taking up space that could be used for other junk, er, classic hardware). They use 13W3 D type connectors, and I did actually manage to get hold of the connector shells from Farnell, but they don't seem to be able to get hold of the signal pins for them. Also, about half of the external SCSI boxes use a weird oversized-D SCSI connector (I think it might be an early SCSI 1 format) that I haven't been able to find cables for either. I'm not as bothered about those, but if anybody knows where I can find them (and adapters to SCSI2, which is what all the controllers use) cheaply, that would be cool too. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Jan 21 14:34:54 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME References: <200101212011.MAA07990@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A6B47EC.623DC7AB@eoni.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > And then of course there's Calmira. A W9x look-a-like GUI that > > works on top of Win 3.1. I think it's still free. I have it on a 386 on > > top of W3.1, on top of DRDOS. > > I'd like to see that! I use Win 3.1 on my beat-up 3MB 486 laptop which > I use for Star Commander and doing regular backups of the 95LX. > Sounds like: Windows 95 (win-DOH-z), n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor which was used in a PC built by a two bit company that couldn't stand one bit of competition. Jim From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 14:47:23 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <200101212009.MAA10542@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200101212009.MAA10542@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > >New Deal *is* PC/GEOS -- same kernel, same everything, just different name. >The Commodore and Apple GEOSes are related to PC/GEOS in name only. >Interestingly, if one looks at the Berkeley Softworks nee GeoWorks specs >for Apple and C64 GEOS, there were some hooks to make the two platforms >cross-compatible. Clever. Where can PC/GEOS, aka New Deal, be found? It sounds pretty interesting and something I'd like to check out. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 15:09:36 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Jan 21, 1 03:47:23 pm" Message-ID: <200101212109.NAA11178@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >New Deal *is* PC/GEOS -- same kernel, same everything, just different name. > >The Commodore and Apple GEOSes are related to PC/GEOS in name only. > >Interestingly, if one looks at the Berkeley Softworks nee GeoWorks specs > >for Apple and C64 GEOS, there were some hooks to make the two platforms > >cross-compatible. Clever. > > Where can PC/GEOS, aka New Deal, be found? It sounds pretty > interesting and something I'd like to check out. www.newdealinc.com They have a free trial version for download. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: You have a magnetic personality. Avoid iron-based alloys. --------- From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jan 21 15:30:26 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? Message-ID: <00be01c083f1$5f0b31a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Hi Anybody ever burn your own EPROM from a rom dump and just put it in a socket of a cartridge? I opened up a cart today to see a socketed ROM in there in only one of the 2 possible PCB locations for chips. I suspect 2 were used in some cartridges...not in the breakout game I opened today. Anybody know what eprom types are pin compatible for these if any? Claude -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/4bf9579e/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 21 15:31:18 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? (Claude.W) References: <00be01c083f1$5f0b31a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <14955.21798.74585.887893@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 21, Claude.W wrote: > Anybody ever burn your own EPROM from a rom dump and just put it in a socket of a cartridge? > > I opened up a cart today to see a socketed ROM in there in only one of the 2 possible PCB locations for chips. > > I suspect 2 were used in some cartridges...not in the breakout game I opened today. > > Anybody know what eprom types are pin compatible for these if any? I bet it's a relatively ordinary pinout...probably the ROM version of a 2716 or 2732. I believe those chips have part numbers like "2316" and such, if memory serves. There were lots of mask ROMs that were pin-compatible with EPROMs in that era, before one-time programmable EPROMs (plain EPROMs but in plastic packages with no erasure window) became cost-effective. Are the numbers on your chip readable? If so, what are they? -Dave McGuire From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 15:30:14 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME Message-ID: <00da01c083f1$8ec70ae0$d0759a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > Where can PC/GEOS, aka New Deal, be found? It sounds pretty >interesting and something I'd like to check out. > > Jeff Uh try www.newdeal.com I posted it earlier in the string. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 16:00:49 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <00da01c083f1$8ec70ae0$d0759a8d@ajp166> References: <00da01c083f1$8ec70ae0$d0759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >From: Jeff Hellige >> Where can PC/GEOS, aka New Deal, be found? It sounds pretty >>interesting and something I'd like to check out. >> >> Jeff >Uh try www.newdeal.com I posted it earlier in the string. Yeah, I saw it after I sent the other message. Oh well.... Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 15:38:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Jan 21, 1 09:38:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 673 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/6ed8672b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 16:06:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Ways to bounce a 1541 In-Reply-To: <200101212006.MAA10260@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 21, 1 12:06:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/b074f671/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 15:41:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Jan 21, 1 02:34:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1610 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/ba483007/attachment.ksh From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 16:23:30 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME References: <200101212009.MAA10542@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <003601c083f8$c919e760$0100a8c0@jack> > Where can PC/GEOS, aka New Deal, be found? It sounds pretty > interesting and something I'd like to check out. > > Jeff > -- Geoworks 2.0 requires a 286 but then its addicting. The GUI is ugly as hell, because it was made for VGA. My taste ;>/ I always wondered why Geoworks never gave Bill the competition. It was the first multitasking GUI that ran on an XT, long b4 wIN3.0 It also was the take-off platform for Steve Chase with a lil terminal pgm/bbs called AOL. I remember when Steve was a regular there and we made fun of him when he swore that he would have 100 000 users ....... http://www.newdealinc.com/ For 16-bit fans and win3.11 on memory-poor laptops, calmira is quite geeky: http://calmirazone.8m.com/ have fun Fred I hope these posts are within classiccomputer criteria.... From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Jan 21 16:48:54 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Ways to bounce a 1541 References: Message-ID: <009701c083fc$54e5d6c0$1ec7fec7@pcat> > > And to think that I normally do it with a Catseye disk, a 'scope and a > lot of careful tweaking.... > Tony, are those alignment disks made any more? I know that you could buy them from Dysan for about $75 each, but that was back in the early 90s. g. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 16:59:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <003601c083f8$c919e760$0100a8c0@jack> from Fred deBros at "Jan 21, 1 05:23:30 pm" Message-ID: <200101212259.OAA14234@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > For 16-bit fans and win3.11 on memory-poor laptops, calmira is quite geeky: > > http://calmirazone.8m.com/ > > have fun I can see a lot of downloadable *utilities* but no actual download of Calmira itself ... ? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled already. ------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 17:01:41 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <003601c083f8$c919e760$0100a8c0@jack> from Fred deBros at "Jan 21, 1 05:23:30 pm" Message-ID: <200101212301.PAA13218@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Never mind, I found it: http://www.calmira.org/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- if (you.canRead(this)) you.canGet(new job(!problem)); -- Seen at JavaOne --- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Jan 21 17:07:45 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Ways to bounce a 1541 In-Reply-To: <009701c083fc$54e5d6c0$1ec7fec7@pcat> from Gene Buckle at "Jan 21, 1 02:48:54 pm" Message-ID: <200101212307.PAA13246@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > And to think that I normally do it with a Catseye disk, a 'scope and a > > lot of careful tweaking.... > Tony, are those alignment disks made any more? I know that you could buy > them from Dysan for about $75 each, but that was back in the early 90s. The Epyx Vorpal Toolkit disk is a Dysan disk and you can find that program around occasionally. Naturally, you will have to buy an original; a copy will not do the trick. By the way, my whack-the-head routine was based on some principles I learned about the 1541 job queue from Vorpal's own auto-align program (theirs is just considerably more gentle :-). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Do you think I could buy back my introduction to you? -- Groucho Marx ------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 17:21:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Ways to bounce a 1541 In-Reply-To: <009701c083fc$54e5d6c0$1ec7fec7@pcat> from "Gene Buckle" at Jan 21, 1 02:48:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/c474d471/attachment.ksh From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun Jan 21 19:30:07 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm Message-ID: <000f01c08412$db32ef40$0264640a@mediaone.net> Hi all, I just scored a Lego mindstorm 1.5 this week end unfortunately I am missing the CD any one around got one and can make a copy? Pleas contact me off line. To bring it back to charter I also found an Atari Videon Touch Pad for the 2600. Were there many games that made use of it? Thanks Francois From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Jan 21 17:51:39 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? References: <00be01c083f1$5f0b31a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> <14955.21798.74585.887893@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <001301c08405$194aa880$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> > I bet it's a relatively ordinary pinout...probably the ROM version > of a 2716 or 2732. I believe those chips have part numbers like > "2316" and such, if memory serves. There were lots of mask ROMs that > were pin-compatible with EPROMs in that era, before one-time > programmable EPROMs (plain EPROMs but in plastic packages with no > erasure window) became cost-effective. > > Are the numbers on your chip readable? If so, what are they? They arent anything obvious, thats the deal... AMI 8147BXW (date code...8147...?) CO12406-01 (your guess...) (c) 1980 Atari Korea I am suspecting a 2716 or 2732 too but... ... Claude From donm at cts.com Sun Jan 21 17:43:58 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Ways to bounce a 1541 In-Reply-To: <009701c083fc$54e5d6c0$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > And to think that I normally do it with a Catseye disk, a 'scope and a > > lot of careful tweaking.... > > > > Tony, are those alignment disks made any more? I know that you could buy > them from Dysan for about $75 each, but that was back in the early 90s. Gene, check on www.accurite.com - Accurite Technologies, Inc. - who took over the Dysan alignment line a number of years back. They have a variety of disks (and approaches to alignment). The majority of the analog 5.25" disks appear to be about $50. - don From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 17:47:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: <001301c08405$194aa880$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> from "Claude.W" at Jan 21, 1 06:51:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 382 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010121/6ba52486/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Jan 21 17:52:43 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: <000f01c08412$db32ef40$0264640a@mediaone.net> from "Sue & Francois" at Jan 21, 2001 05:30:07 PM Message-ID: <200101212352.QAA09386@calico.litterbox.com> I have one. Have you checked the lego mindstorms website, they may have the newer version for sale. > > Hi all, > I just scored a Lego mindstorm 1.5 this week end unfortunately I am missing > the CD any one around got one and can make a copy? Pleas contact me off > line. > > To bring it back to charter I also found an Atari Videon Touch Pad for the > 2600. Were there many games that made use of it? > Thanks > Francois > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ss at allegro.com Sun Jan 21 18:13:04 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <003601c083f8$c919e760$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <3A6B0A90.15046.54553C0@localhost> Re: > For 16-bit fans and win3.11 on memory-poor laptops, calmira is quite geeky: > > http://calmirazone.8m.com/ The worst pages I've seen for quite awhile. I gave up. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Jan 21 18:37:11 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:18 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: Alex Holden "Sun monitor cables" (Jan 21, 20:14) References: Message-ID: <10101220037.ZM8869@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 21, 20:14, Alex Holden wrote: > Hi, does anyone know where I can get hold of Sun monitor cables (ideally > in the UK)? [...] > They use 13W3 D type connectors, and I > did actually manage to get hold of the connector shells from Farnell, but > they don't seem to be able to get hold of the signal pins for them. Farnell do list the coax inserts (they also stock the high-current power plugs that can be used in other 13W3 appications), and IIRC they list the 13W3 shells in two places in the catalogue (which I don't have handy). They might be out of stock, I suppose. If so, you can also get them from Electrospeed (www.electrospeed.com): 169.23.1415.421 50 ohm straight plug 252-38733D ?4.08 23.2415.421 50 ohm straight socket 252-38734A ?6.17 FMX 003 P102 75 ohm straight socket 252-3104J ?3.05 FMX 003 S102 75 ohm straight plug 252-3106A ?2.36 (I'd check those part numbers; S102 sounds like it should be a socket and P102 sounds like it should be a plug!) Electrospeed also sell Siemens inserts for DIN 41612 mixed-body connectors, which AFAIK are interchangable -- but the Siemens ones are (even) more expensive. You can also get them from RS (rswww.com) or Electromail: 485-164 RG178B/U straight plug ?4.16 485-170 RG174A/U straight plug ?4.57 485-186 RG178B/U straight socket ?4.84 485-192 RG174A/U straight socket ?3.89 You can get the cheap version from CPC (www.cpc.co.uk): CN04661 RG179B/U 75 ohm plug ?1.43 CN04662 RG178B/U 50 ohm plug ?1.43 CN04663 RG179B/U 75 ohm socket ?1.52 CN04664 RG178B/U 50 ohm socket ?1.52 You can get Sun-to-VGA adaptors (both genders), half-pitch 50 D plug (SCSI-2) to 50-pin 3-row D (which is probably what you called "weird oversized-D"), and 50-pin D to 50-pin D from Videk (www.videk.co.uk). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Jan 21 18:48:20 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? Message-ID: <015a01c0840d$3209fad0$d0759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> I am suspecting a 2716 or 2732 too but... >> ... > >I'd be suprised if you could fit a reasonable BASIC interpretter into 2K >or even 4K of 6502 code.... Bizzare statement from you. The 6502 was fairly code efficient and there were basics that easily fit in both 2k (integer) and 4k (with floats). >There is/was an 8K*8 mask-programmed ROM in a 24 pin DIL package (one of >the versions of the 2364 IIRC), and I wonder if that's what you have. I >can find pinouts of that ROM in the Rockwell databook if you need them. Yes there was Mask roms were available in both larger and less costly for before the Eprom versions. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 19:03:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: <015a01c0840d$3209fad0$d0759a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jan 21, 1 07:48:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 857 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010122/4462191e/attachment.ksh From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun Jan 21 21:06:33 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm References: <200101212352.QAA09386@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <000701c08420$55ab8d60$0264640a@mediaone.net> Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be impossible to return or exchange it. Thanks Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strickland" To: Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 3:52 PM Subject: Re: OT: Lego Mindstorm > I have one. Have you checked the lego mindstorms website, they may have the > newer version for sale. > > > > > Hi all, > > I just scored a Lego mindstorm 1.5 this week end unfortunately I am missing > > the CD any one around got one and can make a copy? Pleas contact me off > > line. > > > > To bring it back to charter I also found an Atari Videon Touch Pad for the > > 2600. Were there many games that made use of it? > > Thanks > > Francois > > > > > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From fdebros at aol.com Sun Jan 21 19:46:52 2001 From: fdebros at aol.com (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Windes ME Message-ID: <200101220142.UAA20729@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> >> http://calmirazone.8m.com/ > >The worst pages I've seen for quite awhile. > >I gave up. a jeepers are you ticklish! try tha then: http://www.calmira.org/links/index.shtml fred From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 20:08:09 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: <200101220142.UAA20729@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> References: <200101220142.UAA20729@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Jan 21 15:40:21 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: References: <200101220142.UAA20729@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <20010122023904.DDEH6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:08:09 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: 386 to 486 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > This is great tinker thing to broost some performance out of a 386. 386DX is 486DLC, oh you also need 387DLC to go with it. Oh yeah, there's 486DLC2 double clocked too. TI and Cyrix are same chip of these. No matter what, you won't get a barn-burner like that except with true intel or amd 486 that is directly supported motherboard itself. Desktop model 70 w/ -Axx can take either 386dx 25 or 486dx 25 w/ BIOS set. Remember for clock vs clock, 486 is twice as fast of what 386dx does except for SLC/DLC which is appox 10% faster over 386SX/DX Only major expection made by IBM's 386SLC, 486SLC and DLC, SLC2/DLC2 (appox DX2 40) and SLC3/DLC3 (appox DX4 75). All these are very potent cpus due to larger L1 16K in both x2 and x3 while straight ones is 8K. Intel/IBM aggrement only allows IBM to sell IBM's unique x86 CPUs w/ built boards by IBM's or in IBM computers. I had that unique MCA bus based thinkpad 700C w/ 486SLC2 50 in it. Sweet little thing, only big negative w/ that notebook only can accept MCA bus 2.5" hard drive. Imagine that! But you still need to use utility to enable that little 1K cache for that Cyrix/TI to get performance. Cheers, Wizard From red at bears.org Sun Jan 21 20:40:48 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: need information on CDC Sabre 9720-736 SMD Message-ID: Can anybody please tell me or point me to a diagram explaining which connectors on the back of this disk are for what? In addition, an explanation of how to interpret the diagnostic LEDs on the top panel would be most helpful. Tony, thanks for your information. It was a good start for me, but I need some drive-specific information now. Seagate's web pages are worse than useless for this. ok r. From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Jan 21 22:00:09 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: Re: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? (Claude.W) References: <00be01c083f1$5f0b31a0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> <14955.21798.74585.887893@phaduka.neurotica.com> <001301c08405$194aa880$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <14955.45129.964821.414472@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 21, Claude.W wrote: > They arent anything obvious, thats the deal... > > AMI 8147BXW (date code...8147...?) > CO12406-01 (your guess...) > (c) 1980 Atari > Korea Hmm...nonsensical numbers... :-( Hey, you could look at the board and see how many address lines are wired up... -Dave McGuire From rcini at optonline.net Sun Jan 21 22:00:53 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Altair32 Emulator Project Update Message-ID: Hello, all: The Altair32 project is progressing nicely. I've completed the coding, so it's feature complete *except* for the Telnet server code. The emulator now can load and save files, accept disk images (the "controller" is the standard MITS 88DSK), and produce printer output. I also modularized it a bit so that it's easier to add devices to it in the future. Obviously, the Telnet server code is key since that's what will serve as the attached terminal. So, we are unfortunately still restricted to using the FP. I have a few bells and whistles I like to add. For example, I'd like to add real Altair fan noise. Spin up. Run. Shutdown. I'd also like to change the FP to the original 8800 instead of the 8800b that was originally used. What I'd want to do is superimpose the graphic switches and LEDs over a picture of an actual 8800. The existing graphics size is 600x320, but I can make it larger if need be. I haven't posted the code to my Web site yet because I'd like to first offer it up for "beta testing" to the ClassCmp group. If anyone is interested in seeing the full source distribution including bitmaps and VC6 project files, please email me off-list and I'll send you a zip file. Just a personal reflection. Before this project, I never programmed in C, much less in "Windows." What a learning experience. I do have to say, though, that C is fairly easy to learn and use, but I'm sure that I'm only using about 20% of what C offers. And even at the end of the project, I still have trouble with pointers :-). Rich ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Jan 21 23:02:39 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Smith-Corona Daisy wheel supplies Message-ID: <200101220504.f0M546h12175@grover.winsite.com> Hi, gang. I'm going through boxes of stuff, and came across a pile of ribbons and several daisy wheels for a S-C printer that came with the one Kaypro II I was given. I'll never use all of these ribbons or even the alternate wheels....if someone can use them, mail me off-list and we'll work out the details. I'd hate to pitch 'em, but I need the room. Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 22 00:31:57 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: NetBSD on a Quadra? In-Reply-To: <3A6B33B4.221547B3@eoni.com> Message-ID: >If there's a listmember or two that are running NetBSD on an Apple >quadra, or knows their way around BSD, could you please p-mail me? > I'm having a bit of a problem getting it to >come up. This is info on a good list for questions about *nix and macs http://lowendmac.net/linux/max.shtml From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 00:24:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > You could always do what I have to do when I can't find a necessary piece > of ancient hardware.... Get out a soldering iron and _build_ one... :-) I wish I had the time, Tony. And I wish I had your skills ;) > The TRS-80 serial board is not complex, and the schematic exists. It's in > the manual, and it was printed in one of Bill Barden's articles in Byte > in the mid 1980s. The necessary chips are almost all available -- the > only thing that would be hard to get now is the COM8116 baud rate > generator, and you can kludge over that particularly if you only need one > baud rate. I could probably track down the COM8116 at a local surplus store, but again it's the time factor. Also, I don't have the manual (or at least don't know where I might have a copy since everything I have is buried) and haven't been able to find one online. However, I have come up with solution. The software I'm trying to run requires two TRS-80's to be connected together via a modem connection or a null modem serial connection. I have a couple each Modem I's, Modem II's, and other variations (Ib, etc). It seems the Expansion Interface doesn't need the serial port option to connect to a modem, correct? So I'm just going to use two Modem II's and a telco line simulator (or two PBX extensions) for the telco loop. If this works then I won't need the serial port boards. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 22 02:23:44 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <001701c083e5$599e9b50$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <3A6BA7C0.14777.8666197@localhost> > > > And then of course there's Calmira. A W9x look-a-like GUI that > > works on top of Win 3.1. I think it's still free. I have it on a > > 386 on top of W3.1, on top of DRDOS. > > > > Larry > > Thats a win 3.x shell and on a 486 laptop like the toshiba 4600c or > 4800ct with 20mb runs remarkably fast andd smooth and looks > funny....but try to setup a network neighborhood or a dual function > pcmcia or ppp....good luck and lots of aspirin. Was DRDOS with its > Netware utils helpful? > > Fred > I downloaded the free issue with Personal Netware on it but haven't used it. I had another box that had been a workstation with Netware Dos on it. In comparing them, it was interesting to see that DRDOS and Netware Dos were virtually the same product. Didn't Netware own DRDOS before Caldera took it over ? Larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 00:29:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I'd be suprised if you could fit a reasonable BASIC interpretter into 2K > or even 4K of 6502 code.... Woz did it with the Apple-1 and Apple ][. Integer BASIC fits inside 16 pages of memory (1024 bytes). And it's quite capable, including low-res graphics routines even. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 00:30:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: <000701c08420$55ab8d60$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I > already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be > impossible to return or exchange it. I'll bet an Altair that if you call Lego and explain the situation to them they'd be happy to send you a replacement. I'll bet a Commodore 64 they already have it up on their website somewhere if you look hard enough. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 22 01:27:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Hi, does anyone know where I can get hold of Sun monitor cables (ideally >in the UK)? I have four SS2 pizza boxes, an IPX, monitors, keyboards, >mice, and lots of external drives, but no monitor cables! I did get one of >them running after wiring the monitor with individual soldered wires from Everybody and their dog knows the Sun cables are valuable, so even otherwise totally clueless scrap guys want good money for them. Common enough on ebay at $15 to $30 depending on cable. Great tip I got a few weeks ago is that Buy.com sells the Sun to VGA adapters for $20. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 03:28:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 03:37:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I > > already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be > > impossible to return or exchange it. > > I'll bet an Altair that if you call Lego and explain the situation to them > they'd be happy to send you a replacement. I'll bet a Commodore 64 they > already have it up on their website somewhere if you look hard enough. Speaking of C64s... Does anyone remember Lego's old computer interface from the 80s? I saw one in a dusty old toy store in Italy two years ago, but can't remember a whole lot about it. What kind of interface did it use? Was it perhaps only sold to the educational market? From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 03:43:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: HP 9000 Message-ID: Last night, at the user group, we tried to fire up an old HP 9000/822 (I trust this falls inside the classic frame?). Unfortunately, the key has been lost somewhere along to road, so we had to hotwire it (is this the correct term?). We have two large sets of manuals, but they only cover HP-UX and various monitors, so we have no idea what all the error codes at the front panel might mean. Also, where do we connect a console? We've got two serial muxes at the back, as well as ethernet, but that's all the I/O we've been able to find. Any pointers to useful beginners' HP? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 22 03:45:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: References: <000701c08420$55ab8d60$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > >> Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I >> already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be >> impossible to return or exchange it. > >I'll bet an Altair that if you call Lego and explain the situation to them >they'd be happy to send you a replacement. I'll bet a Commodore 64 they >already have it up on their website somewhere if you look hard enough. I wouldn't be so ready to bet. Many companies offload ALL parts support to third parties, ie when I needed a replacement recovery CD for my HP Pavillion I had to call a third party and pay $8 for the CD PLUS $12 more for the "minimum purchase" requirement, plus about another $5 for shipping. Or would you still call that happy to send? I bought my wife a Diamond Rio 500 MP3 player for Christmas, an open box unit I got a deal on, but it was missing the data cable and I just had to buy a new one from SonicBlue, the fullfillment house for Rio $24 to get a replacement (which I still don't have after a week). Plus the MOMENT a lot of places have an upgrade, they see that as a product to sell, not to give away. Which I "guess" is still better than the place that USED to have upgrades, but the link eventually goes dead as the product gets passed around to new owners etc. From kevan at heydon.org Mon Jan 22 03:57:52 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Bondwell Model 2 up for grabs in UK. Message-ID: Is there anybody out there, preferably in the UK, that wants a couple of Bondwell model 2 laptops. They both work, I have floppies for CPM and various other bits of software. I have currently found one of the power bricks, but I am sure I have another somewhere. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 04:01:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > >> Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I > >> already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be > >> impossible to return or exchange it. > > > >I'll bet an Altair that if you call Lego and explain the situation to them > >they'd be happy to send you a replacement. I'll bet a Commodore 64 they > >already have it up on their website somewhere if you look hard enough. > > I wouldn't be so ready to bet. Many companies offload ALL parts support to > third parties, ie when I needed a replacement recovery CD for my HP > Pavillion I had to call a third party and pay $8 for the CD PLUS $12 more > for the "minimum purchase" requirement, plus about another $5 for shipping. > Or would you still call that happy to send? Not Lego. They have quite a competent spare parts service, you will often find their catalogue in the larger kits, or at least you used to. I suppose they're the DEC of the toy business. At least when I ordered 9V spares, they still had 12V train set spares. Of course, this may vary from country to country. And their position on software is unknown to me. I want Amiga drivers! From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 04:42:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > >> I'd be suprised if you could fit a reasonable BASIC interpretter into 2K >> or even 4K of 6502 code.... > >Woz did it with the Apple-1 and Apple ][. Integer BASIC fits inside 16 >pages of memory (1024 bytes). And it's quite capable, including low-res >graphics routines even. One reason I would think Atari BASIC would be a bit larger is the fact that it included support for all the advanced features of the Atari hardware, such as collision detection and player-missle graphics. You could easily do graphics with 128 colors onscreen from within BASIC, and in fact Compute! published a demo that did just that drawing the Atari logo, this on a bone-stock 800. This was in contrast to C-64 BASIC which was able to directly take advantage of few of it's features, such as the sound and graphics modes, without the addition of things such as Simon's BASIC. Did the Atari version of Microsoft BASIC retain the hardware access, or was it more just a generic version? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Jan 22 05:23:44 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Large hard disk Message-ID: I have here a large hard disk drive which I know very little about. It is very solidly built of what looks like thick aluminium castings (with lots of fins) which has been anodised to a kind of light grey-gold colour. According to the bathroom scales it weighs about 37.5Kg or 85lb, and is about 40 * 27 * 34 cm or 1'4" * 11" * 1'1" in size. There is no control circuitry in or on the drive itself as far as I can see. The heads are connected to two 40 pin IDC connectors on top of the unit marked CN91 and CN92, the head motor is connected to a two pin plug marked CN93 underneath the unit, and the platter motor (which drives the spindle directly) is connected to a 5 pin plug marked CN94 to the left of CN93. There is an empty space for a CN95 connector next to CN94, and there is also a connector marked CN95 on the main drive motor itself (it looks like a position sensor). The mounting frame is shock mounted to the base via four rubber bushes. On the mounting frame is a label which says "B030-4840-T031A". On the top cover panel next to the head connectors is a label with two barcodes on it, one above the other. Below the top barcode it says "S/N A43396 REV B0". Below the bottom barcode it says "C/N 1A9840". On the casing above the head drive motor is another barcode label which says "S/N 3A43396". The main drive motor has a label that says: UGBT1D-TP0FU11 B90L-1560-0101A 24V 4A 701297-2 YASKAWA ELECTRIC JAPAN I don't have a digital camera, so no pictures I'm afraid. Does anybody know what this drive is, how old it is, what type of machine it was used with, what capacity it is, how much it cost when new, etc. Also, does anyone have a use for it? I'm willing to give it away to a good home, though I'd rather it was collected in person (from Burnley, in the NW of England). Failing that, I'd be willing to accept the cost of the postage (bearing in mind that it won't be cheap due to the weight) and a reasonable contribution towards the cost of packing materials and the effort involved in lugging the thing to the post office. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From kevan at heydon.org Mon Jan 22 05:38:36 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hi, does anyone know where I can get hold of Sun monitor cables (ideally Try www.videk.co.uk. I have just recently bought a 13W3 -> VGA adapter from them. I have bought other stuff from them in the past and their online ordering has worked well and delivery is fast too. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Jan 22 07:55:53 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm References: Message-ID: <003101c0847b$09754ca0$0264640a@mediaone.net> Cool you already owe me a C64 and I have a pending request with Lego for a CD... We'll see what happens... The LEGO site is the first place I looked, then I seached for w*rez. But to no avail. Now you make me wish LEGO would reject my request for a CD :). By the way for those curious, I paid $50 for the $200 set so I can't relly be too vocal or demanding. Francois > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Sue & Francois wrote: > > > Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I > > already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be > > impossible to return or exchange it. > > I'll bet an Altair that if you call Lego and explain the situation to them > they'd be happy to send you a replacement. I'll bet a Commodore 64 they > already have it up on their website somewhere if you look hard enough. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Jan 22 06:22:55 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: binatone, charity shops Message-ID: <01Jan22.122257gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> John: > On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:13:30 +0000 Adrian Graham > wrote: > > Hehe - I found one yesterday in a thrift store along with > another ebay > > perennial, the Binatone TV Master MK10 pong, boxed :) > > Ah, Binatone, whatever happened to them? I still see the name on telephones so either they're still going or someone else has the name. > So how come the charity shops in Bristol aren't full of > Good Stuff like this??? They seem to be scared of anything > with a mains plug on it! They're not allowed to sell electrical items because they need to be fully tested for electrical safety, and that testing costs money. The shops can't afford to be sued by someone who gets zapped! This place is a true junk shop so he can sell absolutely anything..... I asked him how much he'd want for the machines he's got and he said a tenner each (what's that, around $15?), so if any of you across the Pond want an Archimedes or an Amstrad I don't mind parcelling one up on receipt of the postage money. > Having said that, I did find two Amstrad PCW8512s and an > Acorn Electron in a junk shop the other day. Eight quid > for the lot! heh.... -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 07:19:31 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: <000f01c08412$db32ef40$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:30:07 -0800 Sue & Francois wrote: ... > To bring it back to charter I also found an Atari Videon Touch Pad for the > 2600. Were there many games that made use of it? I have a calculator-like keypad for the 2600. Presumably not the same thing? It's got about 12 keys, 3x4 arrangement, all in black plastic. I suppose the game was supplied with an overlay. Any clues about what game(s) used this thing? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jan 22 08:20:56 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm References: <200101212352.QAA09386@calico.litterbox.com> <000701c08420$55ab8d60$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <003e01c0847e$89062180$faea0191@olf.com> The CD contains the tutorial, case-based programming tool and the firmware. The latest firmware can be downloaded from the mindstorms site. The case-based programming tool is quite weak. I would consider using NQC or legOS which is much more powerful and easier to use. Very C like for NQC and legOS uses GCC... Ram ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue & Francois" To: Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:06 PM Subject: Re: OT: Lego Mindstorm > Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I > already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be > impossible to return or exchange it. > Thanks > Francois > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Strickland" > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 3:52 PM > Subject: Re: OT: Lego Mindstorm > > > > I have one. Have you checked the lego mindstorms website, they may have > the > > newer version for sale. > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > I just scored a Lego mindstorm 1.5 this week end unfortunately I am > missing > > > the CD any one around got one and can make a copy? Pleas contact me off > > > line. > > > > > > To bring it back to charter I also found an Atari Videon Touch Pad for > the > > > 2600. Were there many games that made use of it? > > > Thanks > > > Francois > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jim Strickland > > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > BeOS Powered! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jan 22 08:25:49 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Unusual Apple II item? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010122082329.023ca320@pc> "Portable Time Base Bar Code Reader". A handheld clock mixed with a bar code reader, with an Apple II interface? http://www.labx.com/v2/adsearch/Detail3.CFM?adnumb=71796 - John From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Jan 22 08:40:05 2001 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm Message-ID: <000b01c08481$3680eb40$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Don't I need some DLLs or other proprietary software to be able t communicate with it? I can take this discussion over to the lego mail list where it will be more appropriate. Thanks Francois >The CD contains the tutorial, case-based programming tool and the firmware. >The latest firmware can be downloaded from the mindstorms site. >The case-based programming tool is quite weak. I would consider using NQC >or legOS which is much more powerful and easier to use. Very C like for NQC >and legOS uses GCC... > >Ram > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sue & Francois" >To: >Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:06 PM >Subject: Re: OT: Lego Mindstorm > > >> Nope gotta buy the upgrade version from 1.0 to 1.5 (includes 77 pieces). I >> already bought the thing... Just that the CD was missing. And It gonna be >> impossible to return or exchange it. >> Thanks >> Francois >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Strickland" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 3:52 PM >> Subject: Re: OT: Lego Mindstorm >> >> >> > I have one. Have you checked the lego mindstorms website, they may have >> the >> > newer version for sale. >> > >> > > >> > > Hi all, >> > > I just scored a Lego mindstorm 1.5 this week end unfortunately I am >> missing >> > > the CD any one around got one and can make a copy? Pleas contact me >off >> > > line. >> > > >> > > To bring it back to charter I also found an Atari Videon Touch Pad for >> the >> > > 2600. Were there many games that made use of it? >> > > Thanks >> > > Francois >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jim Strickland >> > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > BeOS Powered! >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 22 08:56:54 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 22, 1 10:28:36 am" Message-ID: <200101221456.GAA14160@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > > made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > > Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > > Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. They did -- I remember the upgrade kits. Dad nearly bought one but instead fried our 386SX with a Cyrix co-processor which shorted out the board. Well, it could have been Dad, and not the chip ;-) but we seemed to upgrade only when Dad destroyed the computer. The 386 went up in smoke, so Dad got a 486DX/40, and then that literally burned down (the board one day just started to warp and black wisps came out the cooling vents), so we got the P75. ;-) The K2-450 they have now was because of Y2K fears, which turned out to be unfounded, so my little sister has the P75. When she gets sick of it, I'll use it to play old DOS games that Virtual PC doesn't like. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- de Gaultier --- From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Jan 22 08:55:20 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: <003e01c0847e$89062180$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > The CD contains the tutorial, case-based programming tool and the firmware. > The latest firmware can be downloaded from the mindstorms site. > The case-based programming tool is quite weak. I would consider using NQC > or legOS which is much more powerful and easier to use. Very C like for NQC > and legOS uses GCC... Don't forget pbForth (Forth for the RCX) and Lejos/TinyVM (Java for the RCX). The RCX has an 8 bit Hitachi H8/3294 with 16KB of ROM and 32K of RAM, so it has the potential to do far more than the included software allows. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Jan 22 09:09:09 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm References: <000b01c08481$3680eb40$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <3A6C4D15.20007@olf.com> The only thing you can not get is the VB OCX stuff. It allows you to communicate with the RCX via VB. You can call Lego and request for a CD as they are very good about this sort of thing. Just say that the box did not have the CD, they will send you a new one. Come over to www.lugnet.com where the RCX community lives... Ram FBA wrote: > Don't I need some DLLs or other proprietary software to be able t > communicate with it? > I can take this discussion over to the lego mail list where it will be more > appropriate. > Thanks > Francois > From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Jan 22 09:14:56 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: <000b01c08481$3680eb40$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, FBA wrote: > Don't I need some DLLs or other proprietary software to be able t > communicate with it? Type "RCX firmware download" into Google to find most of the firmware downloaders. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jan 22 09:22:39 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 1.1 million Atari 2600 and 7800 game cartridges available Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010122092205.023e5560@pc> http://www.gamecenter.com/News/Item/0,3,0-5168,00.html?st.gc.inc..gn - John From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 09:45:08 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: SMD cabling information / Symbolics know-nothings Message-ID: The CDC drive of which RDD speaks has auto-parking heads... no head clamp/shipping lock there... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jan 22 09:50:53 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 References: <200101221456.GAA14160@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A6C56DD.FB78E53C@texoma.net> I have on of the upgrades for 386sx to 486slc. It is an evergreen design, but only works with certain steppings of the 386sx chip. James Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > > > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > > > made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > > > Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > > > > Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. > > They did -- I remember the upgrade kits. Dad nearly bought one but instead > fried our 386SX with a Cyrix co-processor which shorted out the board. Well, > it could have been Dad, and not the chip ;-) but we seemed to upgrade only > when Dad destroyed the computer. The 386 went up in smoke, so Dad got a > 486DX/40, and then that literally burned down (the board one day just started > to warp and black wisps came out the cooling vents), so we got the P75. ;-) > The K2-450 they have now was because of Y2K fears, which turned out to be > unfounded, so my little sister has the P75. When she gets sick of it, I'll > use it to play old DOS games that Virtual PC doesn't like. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- de Gaultier --- From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 22 01:55:56 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One reason I would think Atari BASIC would be a bit larger is > the fact that it included support for all the advanced features of > the Atari hardware, such as collision detection and player-missle Jeff, keep in mind that Microsoft BASIC came from the same source tree no matter what the target CPU. The interpreter was written in a kind of macro language and run through a post processor for the target platform. Because of this there was very little, if any space optimizing done unless the OEM either got the generated source to work on, or they paid MS for the task. A couple of years ago someone posted a bit of this macro like code to alt.folklore.computers with a brief description of how it all went together. A dejanews hunt might even find it. g. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 10:06:05 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: <001301c08405$194aa880$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:51:39 -0500 "Claude.W" wrote: > > Are the numbers on your chip readable? If so, what are they? > > They arent anything obvious, thats the deal... > > AMI 8147BXW (date code...8147...?) > CO12406-01 (your guess...) Well, my guess (based on the Atari ST) is that this "CO" number is an internal Atari part number. Everything in the ST (ROMs, metal screening cans, case parts) has a number like this on it. > (c) 1980 Atari > Korea -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Jan 22 10:12:50 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II on eBay Message-ID: <14956.23554.729312.924469@phaduka.neurotica.com> Folks, A few days ago, someone mentioned a dutch auction on eBay for four TRS-80 Model II computer systems (#1208570093), but there was some confusion as to whether or not the seller actually had four systems. I've just exchanged email with the seller, and he says that he does indeed have four units for sale. -Dave McGuire From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jan 22 11:19:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Intel ???? rescued, weekend finds Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010122121946.4fc71960@mailhost.intellistar.net> I went out to a scrap place yesterday and found a large white Intel box sitting out in the dirt. It looks like some kind of emulator. It's *about* 12" tall, 24 deep and 16 wide. There's no marking on the front except "Intel" on the top RH corner. It looks like there may have been another tag on the front at one time but it's gone now. The back has a tag that gives the voltage, etc and says model no. "PIII515". There's a large ribbon cable connected to it that ends in a cigar sixed box. A thin flex cable comes out of the other end of the box and has plug on it. It's marked "286" so I assume it replaces a 286 CPU. There are no displays, switches or other controls on the box. However it does have some more sockets on the back but I didn't note the labels on them. Does anyone know exactly what this is? Of course, we brought back with us but it's now here now so I can't give better details. Other finds included an I/O expander for the HP 1000 (pn 12979), a HP MultiProgrammer and lots of extra cards, a complete monitor for a HP 9835 (With a good CRT! Yippee!), a pile of VME cards, a CPU card to replace the bad one in Bob's Sun 670(?), two more Exor-bus cards (Hey Mike!), a big pile of chip clips and EZ-hooks, several HP-IB cards for PCs, also three circuit boards and a gyro from a Hellfire missile! Joe From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Jan 22 10:29:15 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Large hard disk Message-ID: <20010122.103102.-320021.3.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:23:44 +0000 (GMT) Alex Holden writes: > position sensor). The mounting frame is shock mounted to the base > via four rubber bushes. On the mounting frame is a label which says > "B030-4840-T031A". On the top cover panel next to the head ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This looks like a Fujitsu number to me . . . ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Jan 22 10:49:27 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Large hard disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010122084927.00979320@192.168.42.129> At 11:23 22-01-2001 +0000, Alex Holden wrote: >Does anybody know what this drive is, how old it is, what type of machine >it was used with, what capacity it is, how much it cost when new, etc. That sounds an awful lot (and the part number format bears this out) like the HDA from a Fujitsu 'Eagle' or 'SuperEagle' drive. Any other guesses? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Jan 22 10:57:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Intel ???? rescued, weekend finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010122121946.4fc71960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010122085241.029fe310@208.226.86.10> > I went out to a scrap place yesterday and found a large white Intel box >sitting out in the dirt. It looks like some kind of emulator. It's *about* >12" tall, 24 deep and 16 wide. There's no marking on the front except >"Intel" on the top RH corner. This is "The ICEBox" an in-circuit emulator for Intel processors. It is a great way to bring up new designs and defeat copy protection schemes :-) There is a special bond out version of the 286 in the pod and when plugged into a circuit that would take a 286 it could give you a complete readout, both internal to the processor and external about what was going on. It can also run at "full" speed. (ususally there was an 8 or a 10 marked somewhere on the bod for 8Mhz and 10Mhz parts.) There were 8086, 80186, and 80286 pods for it, but I don't know if it could ever handle the 386. It was "new" in the mid 80's (like 1985 when I was at Intel) and it combined with a Tektronix DAS9000 series was the weapon of choice for tracking down chip design bugs. Compaq used one in the design of the DeskPro 286 (and complained alot to intel because at the time the bond-out versions of the 286 didn't come out at the same time as the new steppings of the chip. (separate, by hand, assembly process) --Chuck From owad at applefritter.com Mon Jan 22 11:00:54 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010122170054.4609@mail.lafayette.edu> >Speaking of C64s... Does anyone remember Lego's old computer interface >from the 80s? I saw one in a dusty old toy store in Italy two years ago, >but can't remember a whole lot about it. What kind of interface did it >use? Was it perhaps only sold to the educational market? The Apple II version had a very simple two, maybe three IC card and connected to the interface box by an I-think-16-pin ribbon connector. The interface box had two input connectors and nine output connectors (labeled A/B/C & 1/2/3/4/5/6). A-C could do both even and odd directions, 1-6 one direction only. Setting A to run even would also turn on 1, setting it to odd would also turn on 2, etc. The system ran off 4.5v. The kits were programmed with LEGO TC Logo. The kits were discontinued just four years ago and were available only through educational venues. The discontinuation price (no idea how much they were originally) was $200 for an interface box, card, and blue case full of LEGO blocks, including the necessary motors/sensors, etc. Is anybody else more familiar with the the interface? The card looked awfully simple and I'd be interested in finding a source, as I only have 8 cards but quite a few more of the interface boxes. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From russ at rbcs.8m.com Mon Jan 22 11:12:56 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: <3A6C56DD.FB78E53C@texoma.net> Message-ID: Kingston makes a turbochip for the socketed 386's but I'm not sure if they have a version for the surface mounts that don't have an upgrade socket. They have full info and docs on their website. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of James Rice Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 386 to 486 I have on of the upgrades for 386sx to 486slc. It is an evergreen design, but only works with certain steppings of the 386sx chip. James Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > > > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > > > made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > > > Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > > > > Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. > > They did -- I remember the upgrade kits. Dad nearly bought one but instead > fried our 386SX with a Cyrix co-processor which shorted out the board. Well, > it could have been Dad, and not the chip ;-) but we seemed to upgrade only > when Dad destroyed the computer. The 386 went up in smoke, so Dad got a > 486DX/40, and then that literally burned down (the board one day just started > to warp and black wisps came out the cooling vents), so we got the P75. ;-) > The K2-450 they have now was because of Y2K fears, which turned out to be > unfounded, so my little sister has the P75. When she gets sick of it, I'll > use it to play old DOS games that Virtual PC doesn't like. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- de Gaultier --- From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 10:48:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Speaking of C64s... Does anyone remember Lego's old computer interface > from the 80s? I saw one in a dusty old toy store in Italy two years > ago, but can't remember a whole lot about it. What kind of interface > did it use? Was it perhaps only sold to the educational market? Don't know about the C64 version (it makes sense that they would have made one for it) but I have an Apple ][ Lego interface. Its an adaptor card with a connector on the outside. One day I'll find the software for it, and maybe what it was supposed to connect to. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From owad at applefritter.com Mon Jan 22 12:38:33 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010122183833.2340@mail.lafayette.edu> >Don't know about the C64 version (it makes sense that they would have made >one for it) but I have an Apple ][ Lego interface. There was also a LEGO card for the PC, and I recall seeing a picture in a LEGO book of one of the kits hooked up to, IIRC, a TRS-80 CoCo. FWIW, on one of the instruction manuals, there's a picture of a compact Mac right behind the motorized car, as if the car is hooked up to it. The only type I recall seeing in the closeout pricelist four years back was Apple II and PC. (The newer 9v equipment is now Mac and PC.) Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 12:42:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:19 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 21, 1 10:24:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010122/537924ed/attachment.ksh From george_moraes at lakelabs.com Mon Jan 22 12:43:31 2001 From: george_moraes at lakelabs.com (george_moraes@lakelabs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: HP 9000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A6693A400002AB4@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Hi Iggy. Try docs.hp.com, till some months ago they still have old stuff there. If you could not find anything, I can try to find some info for you (I work for HP). Regards. -- Original Message -- >Last night, at the user group, we tried to fire up an old HP 9000/822 (I >trust this falls inside the classic frame?). Unfortunately, the key has >been lost somewhere along to road, so we had to hotwire it (is this the >correct term?). We have two large sets of manuals, but they only cover >HP-UX and various monitors, so we have no idea what all the error codes >at >the front panel might mean. Also, where do we connect a console? We've got >two serial muxes at the back, as well as ethernet, but that's all the I/O >we've been able to find. >Any pointers to useful beginners' HP? > > From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Jan 22 13:09:46 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A6C3F2A.16842.AB5ECF1@localhost> > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know > > Evergreen made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale > > on eBay. Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > > Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. > > This is from my PS2 D-B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:11:21 +0100 From: "Peter H. Wendt" <~phw@compunet.de> Reply-To: ~phw@compunet.de Organization: CompuNet? Hamburg Hi ! >is it possible to pop something like a 486slc chip >in a 8580-111? Sure ... but it won't work :-) The replacement-boards offered 486SX / DX mainly, the original board takes at least the "Blue Lightning" and other 486DLC-based chips. The 486SLC is a 386SX-family processor and has only 16-bit databus - so it won't match the physical specs of the 32-bit Mod. 80 planar without further adaption. n simple: No way. Very friendly greetings from Peter in Germany - Please respond to : peterwendt@aol.com - http://members.aol.com/phwimage1/mcaindex.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Jerry Dumer Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware Subject: Re: Texas intruments Upgrade ?? Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 20:23:26 -0500 Just plug it in. You will get about 10-20% increase. If you enable the on-chip cache, maybe more. Cache requires a driver in the autoexec.bat. If you don't have one, holler, I'll email you a copy. I doubt it would be worth your time on crystal changes. Regards, Jerry Monza wrote: > > I recently aquired a Texas Instruments TX 486DLC-40BGA > It was an upgrade for a 386 (installed originally on a Clone MBoard) or so > I was told. > I was wondering would this chip work in either a 8580-041 or a 8573-121 ?? > and if it would run, what kind of benifit would I see ? > > BTW would any Upgrades be needed to the Ps/2 Mboard itself...faster > crystals, etc ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's some other upgrades -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: awilli7333@aol.com (AWilli7333) Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware Subject: Re: 286-486 upgrade Date: 8 Apr 1998 02:10:46 GMT >I am wanting to upgrade my old ps/2 50z to a 486... for the heck of it. > >kinda a neat extra computer to have around.. at any rate, has anyone had >any experience with this upgrade.. and how did it turn out for you? > >thanks >if you want, feel free to email your responses to >dvb@full-moon.com >thanks > Hi Dave, I have used several different up grade chips on these machines , The "make it 486" with a math co-processer will help your computer immensely. You can run windows 3.1 with flair. Evergreen and cryrix also make upgrade processors. It is the easiest up grade you can do. Just pop out the 286 chip , being very careful not to damage the chip seat or socket , install the new chip . Some companies have disk set up you will run to set the cache. Also Knigston makes a upgrade processor. You should be able to find a 386 upgrade for about 20-30.00 or a 486 upgrade for less than 50.00. Neointeractive has whole mother boards with 486 processors and 8 megs of ram for under 100.00. If you don't find what you want please e-mail me I may have some 486 chips left. awilli7333@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 12:53:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: OT: Lego Mindstorm In-Reply-To: from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 22, 1 10:37:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010122/d9cd67a1/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 12:35:13 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > The connector at the centre-front of the EI is electrically > unconnected (apart from grounds) if the serial board is not installed, > so anything that connects there will need the serial board. Period. Ok, then I'll go back to my pathetic and desperate plea for a couple serial boards for the TRS-80 EI. Will trade for money, food, sex, whatever. ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Jan 22 13:54:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: WEBROW/1.1 (RT-11; PDP11/45) Message-ID: OK, here is the question of the day. I was just doing a search on RT-11 and came up with the following: Browser Statistics for Monday 17/Jul/2000 http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/bstats/days/00-07/000717.html The line of interest reads as follows: 1 WEBROW/1.1 (RT-11; PDP11/45) Anyone know what this is? This could just be someone having their system setup to report as being something else. In searching on just WEBROW I'm guessing this might be a piece of Russian software (most of the hits were Russian web pages). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ss at allegro.com Mon Jan 22 13:58:30 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: HP 9000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A6C2066.28038.43B7507@localhost> Re: HP 9000/822 > Last night, at the user group, we tried to fire up an old HP 9000/822 (I > trust this falls inside the classic frame?) Yes > Unfortunately, the key has > been lost somewhere along to road, so we had to hotwire it (is this the > correct term?). Yes :) > HP-UX and various monitors, so we have no idea what all the error codes at > the front panel might mean. I don't have a manual for the 8x2, but I do have info for 8x0, 8x5 (which preceded it), and 8x7 (which followed it), so if you post/email the error codes I could look them up in those manuals...they're fairly likely to be the same. > Also, where do we connect a console? We've got > two serial muxes at the back, as well as ethernet, but that's all the I/O > we've been able to find. I don't have an 8x2 (or 3000/9x2) to look at...earlier systems required a cable to a mux panel, and slot 0 (or a slot labelled "console") was where you had to plug in the console. On the 8x7 and 9x7 systems, there's a dedicated console port (and you don't use a mux panel). I'll ask a friend with one if he can shed any light on this. Once found, you'll need either an HP terminal or a computer running an HP terminal emulator. Don't try to get away with something else ... it simply won't work well. (Some special messages are sent with special HP-only escape sequences.) There's a free emulator or two wandering around the net. One's "zebra", at http://www.coastal.net.au/~ewan/ and one's xhpterm. The latter is at ftp://ftp.telamon.com/freevt3k/ Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 22 07:09:21 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > The connector at the centre-front of the EI is electrically > > unconnected (apart from grounds) if the serial board is not installed, > > so anything that connects there will need the serial board. Period. > > Ok, then I'll go back to my pathetic and desperate plea for a couple > serial boards for the TRS-80 EI. > > Will trade for money, food, sex, whatever. > Wasn't there a TRS-80 modem that would connect to the EI connector on the back of the keyboard unit? g. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 15:41:54 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > One reason I would think Atari BASIC would be a bit larger is >> the fact that it included support for all the advanced features of >> the Atari hardware, such as collision detection and player-missle > >Jeff, keep in mind that Microsoft BASIC came from the same source tree no >matter what the target CPU. The interpreter was written in a kind of >macro language and run through a post processor for the target platform. >Because of this there was very little, if any space optimizing done unless >the OEM either got the generated source to work on, or they paid MS for >the task. A couple of years ago someone posted a bit of this macro like >code to alt.folklore.computers with a brief description of how it all >went together. A dejanews hunt might even find it. This isn't really relevant to my comment though since Atari BASIC is not MS BASIC. Atari BASIC was written specifically for the Atari 400/800 with a good deal of attention paid to being able to interact with the hardware capabilities of the machines. Commodore didn't go to the same level of functionality with their BASIC. MS BASIC was available seperately for the Atari and judging from your comment, I'd say that it didn't allow the same level of hardware interaction either. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 15:46:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug >> into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen >> made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. >> Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > >Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. Now that I've thought about it a while, I was probably thinking of the 486DLC when I typed that. I used to have a 386 motherboard that had an updated BIOS for the DLC, which was pincompatible with the 386DX. It had the DLC already installed when I bought it new and though it wasn't as fast as a 486DX part, it was better than the 386's I had been running. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 15:51:45 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:51:39 -0500 "Claude.W" > > AMI 8147BXW (date code...8147...?) > > CO12406-01 (your guess...) > >Well, my guess (based on the Atari ST) is that this "CO" >number is an internal Atari part number. Everything in the >ST (ROMs, metal screening cans, case parts) has a number >like this on it. Everything Atari made had that type of part number on it. It actually made it fairly easy to figure out what stuff was most of the time, at least as far as the major assemblies went. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 22 15:58:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: 1.1 million Atari 2600 and 7800 game cartridges available In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010122092205.023e5560@pc> Message-ID: >http://www.gamecenter.com/News/Item/0,3,0-5168,00.html?st.gc.inc..gn Now thats what I need...... a limestone cavern for storage. From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 16:09:00 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... Message-ID: I know that this is a shameless plug, but here are a few machines I'm looking for: Dynalogic Hyperion Epson QX-10 Otrona Attache Acorn A4 (w/ American voltage power supply) Commodore Hyperion (Good luck, I know!) ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82 ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 15:01:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > Wasn't there a TRS-80 modem that would connect to the EI connector on > the back of the keyboard unit? If so, it probably requires adjunct software as Tony described and will probably not work with the software I'm trying to get running. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Jan 22 16:19:06 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: "from Jeff Hellige at Jan 22, 2001 04:46:53 pm" Message-ID: <200101222219.QAA12202@caesar.cs.umn.edu> No, but I have a 286 upgrade board for a XT. -Lawrence LeMay > >On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >> Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > >> into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > >> made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > >> Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > > > >Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. > > Now that I've thought about it a while, I was probably > thinking of the 486DLC when I typed that. I used to have a 386 > motherboard that had an updated BIOS for the DLC, which was > pincompatible with the 386DX. It had the DLC already installed when > I bought it new and though it wasn't as fast as a 486DX part, it was > better than the 386's I had been running. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 22 08:40:37 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > This isn't really relevant to my comment though since Atari > BASIC is not MS BASIC. Atari BASIC was written specifically for the > Atari 400/800 with a good deal of attention paid to being able to > interact with the hardware capabilities of the machines. Commodore > didn't go to the same level of functionality with their BASIC. MS > BASIC was available seperately for the Atari and judging from your > comment, I'd say that it didn't allow the same level of hardware > interaction either. > Whups, my mistake. :) I guess the wet parser gets to go back for an updated Caffine Fix Pack. :) g. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 17:01:50 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 22, 1 01:01:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1043 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010122/901e4cad/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 22 17:14:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a bunch of these different overdrive parts, maybe I will lay a few out and take some pictures. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 17:17:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I know that this is a shameless plug, but here are a few machines >I'm looking for: >Dynalogic Hyperion >Commodore Hyperion (Good luck, I know!) According to an ex-Commodore engineer I used to correspond with, they were one and the same thing, as Commodore never did more than rebadge a few for display at one of the big computer shows in Germany. He said he was the one who purchased one from the Bytec distributor in the UK around Christmas 1982 for consideration as Commodore's first MS-DOS machine. They decided against using it due to servicing difficulties but since their x86 machine wasn't ready yet they displayed a few anyway in early '83 (CeBIT in Hanover i believe). Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Jan 22 09:30:27 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > If so, it probably requires adjunct software as Tony described and will > probably not work with the software I'm trying to get running. > One last thought... do any of the TRS-80 Model I emulators have serial port support? Would this not solve your problem if they did, or is there some real-world problem you're trying to solve? g. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Jan 22 17:33:41 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > Wasn't there a TRS-80 modem that would connect to the EI connector on the > back of the keyboard unit? AND, for printing use, there were adapters for connecting serial ("RS232") printers to cassette port ("TRS232"), and to EI port (GPA (software compatible with TRS232)). -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 22 16:50:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > One last thought... do any of the TRS-80 Model I emulators have serial > port support? Would this not solve your problem if they did, or is there > some real-world problem you're trying to solve? It needs to run on the original TRS-80. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 17:49:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Jan 22, 1 03:33:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1052 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010122/720e810c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 18:28:50 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Jan 22, 1 02:50:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 658 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010123/dd8ee02a/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 18:52:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > One last thought... do any of the TRS-80 Model I emulators have serial >> port support? Would this not solve your problem if they did, or is there >> some real-world problem you're trying to solve? > >It needs to run on the original TRS-80. Would a Model III with a RS232C interface do the trick? Maybe they're compatible enough and you might already have or be able to find these? According to the Model III Operation Reference manual they are almost identical from an assembly language programming standpoint and most BASIC programs written for the Model I will run on a Model III. The cassette interface was even made compatible between the two. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 08:31:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 In-Reply-To: <002601c08350$76173a70$d0759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <457.422T1550T9315483optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >Also for those that dont know or havent tried, the image the mop loader >sends >out does nto have to be VMS. We used it for ELN and other toys at DEC. ELN? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 19:50:19 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <853.423T950T1704419optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>That's PC/GEOS. Trust me, it works. I was a PC/GEOS believer back in the >>early days and I think it's one fabulous GUI. > Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have >never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I >like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the >high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. Yes, and to add insult to injury, it is owned by Microsoft! The Nokia N9000 (Communicator) series also runs GEOS on its 486 processor. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Amiga IFF (8SVX): This is the dominant [sound] format on the Commodore Amiga platform. It can specify an arbitray sampling rate but ony supports mono 8-bit sounds. It also supports a 2-to-1 lossy compression format which uses a unique Fibonacci-delta compression algorithm. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 22 20:02:56 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <709.423T2800T1826717optimus@canit.se> Alex Holden skrev: >Also, about half of the external SCSI boxes use a weird oversized-D SCSI >connector (I think it might be an early SCSI 1 format) that I haven't been >able to find cables for either. I'm not as bothered about those, but if >anybody knows where I can find them (and adapters to SCSI2, which is what >all the controllers use) cheaply, that would be cool too. What kind of connector is it? How many pins, what does it measure? The SUN SCSI boxes I've encountered have either used Mini-DB50 (modern ones) or Centronics-50 (big old ones). -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Jan 22 20:40:41 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3034.208.227.9.12.980217641.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > I'd be suprised if you could fit a reasonable BASIC interpretter into > 2K or even 4K of 6502 code.... Apple 1 BASIC was under 4K. Apple ][ Integer BASIC is a slightly improved version and is under 5K. Neither has floating point, so perhaps they don't meet your definition of "reasonable". > There is/was an 8K*8 mask-programmed ROM in a 24 pin DIL package (one > of the versions of the 2364 IIRC), and I wonder if that's what you > have. I can find pinouts of that ROM in the Rockwell databook if you > need them. There's also an 8K*8 EPROM in a 24 pin DIP, the Motorola 68764. Also the 68766, I don't recall what the difference was. They never were as cheap as the 2764, and now they've gotten somewhat hard to find. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 22 20:56:44 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <853.423T950T1704419optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 23, 1 02:50:19 am" Message-ID: <200101230256.SAA10016@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have > >never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I > >like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the > >high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. > > Yes, and to add insult to injury, it is owned by Microsoft! Eh? How do you figure? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow. --- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Jan 22 21:16:30 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 Message-ID: <009a01c084ea$f8251f50$ac749a8d@ajp166> From: Iggy Drougge >ajp166 skrev: > >>Also for those that dont know or havent tried, the image the mop loader >>sends >>out does nto have to be VMS. We used it for ELN and other toys at DEC. > >ELN? ELN was a real time framweork for stand alone applications that was somewhat compatable with VMS filesystem. MDM {microvax diagnostic monitor} is written on the ELN framework. Allison From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Mon Jan 22 22:02:00 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: TI Expansion Unit In-Reply-To: References: <3A6C56DD.FB78E53C@texoma.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010122230001.00afc3e0@popmail.voicenet.com> I have the following that I am selling for an acquaintance. Let me know if you know anyone who is interested. Texas Instruments Home Computer Peripheral Expansion System Model No. PHP1200 in Original Box Never used From hellige at mediacen.navy.mil Mon Jan 22 10:23:45 2001 From: hellige at mediacen.navy.mil (Hellige, Jeff SK2) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? Message-ID: <01Jan22.230640est.119081@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >> One reason I would think Atari BASIC would be a bit larger is >> the fact that it included support for all the advanced features of >> the Atari hardware, such as collision detection and player-missle > >Jeff, keep in mind that Microsoft BASIC came from the same source tree no >matter what the target CPU. The interpreter was written in a kind of >macro language and run through a post processor for the target platform. >Because of this there was very little, if any space optimizing done unless >the OEM either got the generated source to work on, or they paid MS for >the task. A couple of years ago someone posted a bit of this macro like >code to alt.folklore.computers with a brief description of how it all >went together. A dejanews hunt might even find it. But that has little to do with my comment since Atari BASIC is not Microsoft BASIC. MS BASIC was available seperately. Atari did thier own interpreter which was written specifically for the 400/800 series machines and incorporated functions specific to the hardware. Commodore on the other hand did not build this same level of functionality into thier variants of BASIC for the C-64 and I was just wondering if anyone knew if the MS BASIC available for the Atari had any of it included. By your comments above, I would assume not. Jeff (replying to this from work) From archer at topnow.com Mon Jan 22 22:20:03 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought References: <3.0.1.16.20010118093346.34df78f6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3A6D0673.1CC5C7B9@topnow.com> Joe, Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I don't think it has anything like standard parts. Everything about it looks custom-molded to fit the unusual key shape (curved keytops with painted legends and smoothly- rounded key edges), unusual key layout (slide switch + two independent buttons and 3 x 7 matrix of scanned buttons). The way it's put together suggests to me a very well-designed custom keypad that would only make sense if sold in the thousands. Of course, as always, I could be wrong. :) -- Ross Joe wrote: > Ross, > > What kind of keys does it use? The Motorola and Intel SBCS use > individual square switches and square keytops and the whole thing is only > about 1/2" high. I found a small supply of new ones in a surplus store > here. If your KIM uses the same ones I see how many are left and get them > for you. > > Joe > > At 07:25 PM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: > >I have a partially-functional KIM-1 (date code 0378) I'd like to > >restore. > >(And if anyone has one in good condition to sell, I'm also interested.) > > > >Currently, there are two things wrong, and I'm looking for general > >advice on what if anything can be done to fix them: > > > >1. The keypad is pretty flakey. Several keys register erratically, > >and when they do, they bounce and report multiple times. > >The '0' key is particularly bad in this respect. > >The 'PC' key is utterly caved in. But all but the PC key > >registers in with varying degrees of retries and effort. > > > >I'm handy with soldering, and could remove the keypad, but > >don't have any idea how to clean / fix a keypad, let alone repair > >any broken springs, contacts, etc. Can it even be done? Has > >anyone here even seen the inside of one of these? > > > >2. The cassette interface doesn't read. It writes fine, the +12 supply > >is > >showing up where it's expected (pin 8 of LM311) and +11-ish on the > >565 PLL, but I have no idea what the "normal" voltages on each pin > >are to assist in further troubleshooting. All I'm sure about is that > >the > >output of the LM311 is not anything like what's expected, and the > >trimpot doesn't affect the PLL frequency one iota according to my scope. > > > >Any thoughts on how to tell what section is bad? > > > >Thanks for any ideas out there. > > > >In the meantime, I am thinking of wiring an outboard keypad and hooking > >it > >to the application connector. Hand-wired, of course. Where else would > >you find a 3x7 matrix? > > > >. > > > > > > > > From red at bears.org Mon Jan 22 22:40:04 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <853.423T950T1704419optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 23 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Jeff Hellige skrev: > > > Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have > >never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I > >like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the > >high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. > > Yes, and to add insult to injury, it is owned by Microsoft! > The Nokia N9000 (Communicator) series also runs GEOS on its 486 processor. What? GEOS was never owned by Microsoft. GEM belonged to Digital Research and I would be shocked to hear they were bought by Microsoft. And the N9000 Communicator uses a pair of 80386 CPUs. The 9110 uses an 80486. I know, I was there. (: ok r. From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Jan 22 23:48:04 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: <709.423T2800T1826717optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 23 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > What kind of connector is it? How many pins, what does it measure? The SUN > SCSI boxes I've encountered have either used Mini-DB50 (modern ones) or > Centronics-50 (big old ones). They're the large three row 50 pin D type (not centronics). Somebody told me off list that they were the standard type on Sun 3 machines. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 23 00:18:04 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: <709.423T2800T1826717optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >>Also, about half of the external SCSI boxes use a weird oversized-D SCSI >>connector (I think it might be an early SCSI 1 format) that I haven't been >>able to find cables for either. I'm not as bothered about those, but if >>anybody knows where I can find them (and adapters to SCSI2, which is what >>all the controllers use) cheaply, that would be cool too. > >What kind of connector is it? How many pins, what does it measure? The SUN >SCSI boxes I've encountered have either used Mini-DB50 (modern ones) or >Centronics-50 (big old ones). Older Sun stuff also used a big connector with 3 rows of pins. I have a bit of it, but generally don't bother with it, leaving it for a fellow I know who is into Sun 360 type boxes. From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Jan 23 00:26:14 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: applicationDEC 433MP Message-ID: <00af01c08505$7d348ae0$0100a8c0@hal-9000-2> I spent an enjoyable weekend dissassembling, cleaning, and re-assembling a 433MP (introduced 1990, so just on-topic). It came from an industrial environment, and was one of the filthiest computers I've ever seen. I didn't get any manuals, and there's very little info about these machines on the Web (Compaq, as usual, pretends these machines never existed), so I was hoping one of list DECkers could help with a few questions: - the machine has 2 memory boards, which give a maximum of 32 megs of ECC RAM, with 40 x 1 meg SIMMs. Can the system use more than 2 memory boards, to go to 64 megs? Or can the 1 meg SIMMs be replaced by 4 meg SIMMs? - on powerup, the system BIOS reports 640K of main memory, and 13312K of extended memory; there are 25 x 1 meg SIMMs installed, so I'm expecting 20 megs after subtracting the ECC SIMMS. Any ideas why the BIOS isn't seeing all of the available RAM? - the system has 2 x 486/33 processor cards installed - one base CPU card, and one CPU/SCSI card. The system can hold up to 4 processor cards; were there any OSes that could use 4 processors at a time? Is it worth hunting down two extra CPU cards? - there's a TZK10-AA tape drive in the system. What tape cartridges does this drive use? - the processor cards use Intel 80486 DX chips at 33 Mhz. I dimly recall that the 80486DX2/66 is a drop in replacement for the 80486DX33. Can I get a quick speed boost by swapping the processor chips? - finally, how popular were these machines? They're nicely built and engineered, but I had never heard of them before I found this one, and the MicroPDP-11 that I got with it ... but that's another story. Thanks a lot for any help. Mark Gregory From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Jan 22 18:52:58 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... References: Message-ID: <001701c084d7$1fdebce0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> > >I know that this is a shameless plug, but here are a few machines > >I'm looking for: > >Dynalogic Hyperion > >Commodore Hyperion (Good luck, I know!) IIRC Dynalogic Hyperions were built in Ottawa Canada and they also had an office right here in Montreal... They were fairly common aound here a few years ago because of this. I have come close a couple of times of getting free ones.."Oh yeah, you collect this stuff? I threw out 4 of these about a year ago!"...I have been told already....I am sure lll get one (or many) some day... I was offered one not too long ago by someone who taught he had a rare diamond in his hands he wanted IIRC around $150 - $200. I passed...my policy/philosophy on collecting 197x-198x early 1990s micros is: I rarely pay more then $20 unless its a large amount of stuff and a uncommon I lot of the stuff I have was given to me. Including some very very nice stuff... When its something nice and people dont want money, I give a bottle of wine (we have plenty inexpensive good ones here in Quebec) I dont hesitate to pick up stuff I dont really need (DEC, books etc...) to giveaway or trade on here... I hunt around a lot for the stuff... While I still dont have a NEXT box and a Lisa or an Apple III, I do have a nice collection of clean machines from the computer era I grew up in...and while I could afford ebay prices and get it all in a few weeks, that would take the fun out of hunting for them, trading with you guys and meeting people and talking with people I dont know that call me up/email me out of nowhere and give me some of this stuff for free....Besides, I am quite cheap and I can imagine paying ebay prices for this kinda stuff... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Jan 23 01:33:40 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: applicationDEC 433MP In-Reply-To: <00af01c08505$7d348ae0$0100a8c0@hal-9000-2> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010122233340.00999bb0@192.168.42.129> At 23:26 22-01-2001 -0700, Mark Gregory wrote: >- the machine has 2 memory boards, which give a maximum of 32 megs of ECC >RAM, with 40 x 1 meg SIMMs. Can the system use more than 2 memory boards, to >go to 64 megs? Or can the 1 meg SIMMs be replaced by 4 meg SIMMs? Unfortunately not. I tried it. >- on powerup, the system BIOS reports 640K of main memory, and 13312K of >extended memory; there are 25 x 1 meg SIMMs installed, so I'm expecting 20 >megs after subtracting the ECC SIMMS. Any ideas why the BIOS isn't seeing >all of the available RAM? I seem to recall that the machine maxes out at 16MB. Period. If anyone knows differently, I'd like to hear about it myself! >- the system has 2 x 486/33 processor cards installed - one base CPU card, >and one CPU/SCSI card. The system can hold up to 4 processor cards; were >there any OSes that could use 4 processors at a time? Is it worth hunting >down two extra CPU cards? Not really. The SMP used in those machines was truly exotic, a one-time only thing that Intel bought out so they could kill it. I don't even know of an OS, outside of a very specialized version of SCO Unix (which is what those machines originally ran) that will use the two CPUs. >- there's a TZK10-AA tape drive in the system. What tape cartridges does >this drive use? Probably a DC6150, 6250, or 6525. >- the processor cards use Intel 80486 DX chips at 33 Mhz. I dimly recall >that the 80486DX2/66 is a drop in replacement for the 80486DX33. Can I get a >quick speed boost by swapping the processor chips? Possibly, but be sure to add appropriate CPU fans. >- finally, how popular were these machines? They're nicely built and >engineered, but I had never heard of them before I found this one, and the >MicroPDP-11 that I got with it ... but that's another story. I have no clue how popular they were, but I can tell you that I'm not overly thrilled with mine. Being of the PC persuasion in its architecture, it insists on having a keyboard connected in order to boot. I'm going to try faking it out with a dummy plug (with a resistor between Vcc and ground). If that works, I may use it as a netboot or maintenance node. If not, I will announce its availability so that it may seek a new home. Yours, perhaps? ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 23 02:16:55 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought References: <3.0.1.16.20010118093346.34df78f6@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3A6D0673.1CC5C7B9@topnow.com> Message-ID: <002301c08514$d92fc300$1192fea9@idcomm.com> There are several switch makers that sell keypads that are simply switch arrays which you can hook up however you like. If you look at a few switch makers' catalogs, perhaps you can find what you need and then connect the switch matrix to match what's on the KIM. I've built memory circuits, etc, for the KIM, but never paid much attention to the KIM itself, hence, I can't remember anything specific about the keypad, except that it could easily have been better, and could only have been worse with great difficulty. I don't have many current catalogs, but you might look for Grayhill for starters. IF you add an external keypad, you could wire it in parallel with the matrix on the board, by the way. That way you don't have to fiddle with the expansion connector. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:20 PM Subject: Re: KIM-1 restoration advice sought > Joe, > > Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I don't think it has anything like > standard parts. Everything about it looks custom-molded to fit the > unusual key shape (curved keytops with painted legends and smoothly- > rounded key edges), unusual key layout (slide switch + two independent > buttons and 3 x 7 matrix of scanned buttons). > > The way it's put together suggests to me a very well-designed custom > keypad that would only make sense if sold in the thousands. > > Of course, as always, I could be wrong. :) > > > -- Ross > > > > > Joe wrote: > > > Ross, > > > > What kind of keys does it use? The Motorola and Intel SBCS use > > individual square switches and square keytops and the whole thing is only > > about 1/2" high. I found a small supply of new ones in a surplus store > > here. If your KIM uses the same ones I see how many are left and get them > > for you. > > > > Joe > > > > At 07:25 PM 1/17/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >I have a partially-functional KIM-1 (date code 0378) I'd like to > > >restore. > > >(And if anyone has one in good condition to sell, I'm also interested.) > > > > > >Currently, there are two things wrong, and I'm looking for general > > >advice on what if anything can be done to fix them: > > > > > >1. The keypad is pretty flakey. Several keys register erratically, > > >and when they do, they bounce and report multiple times. > > >The '0' key is particularly bad in this respect. > > >The 'PC' key is utterly caved in. But all but the PC key > > >registers in with varying degrees of retries and effort. > > > > > >I'm handy with soldering, and could remove the keypad, but > > >don't have any idea how to clean / fix a keypad, let alone repair > > >any broken springs, contacts, etc. Can it even be done? Has > > >anyone here even seen the inside of one of these? > > > > > >2. The cassette interface doesn't read. It writes fine, the +12 supply > > >is > > >showing up where it's expected (pin 8 of LM311) and +11-ish on the > > >565 PLL, but I have no idea what the "normal" voltages on each pin > > >are to assist in further troubleshooting. All I'm sure about is that > > >the > > >output of the LM311 is not anything like what's expected, and the > > >trimpot doesn't affect the PLL frequency one iota according to my scope. > > > > > >Any thoughts on how to tell what section is bad? > > > > > >Thanks for any ideas out there. > > > > > >In the meantime, I am thinking of wiring an outboard keypad and hooking > > >it > > >to the application connector. Hand-wired, of course. Where else would > > >you find a 3x7 matrix? > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 23 01:12:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: applicationDEC 433MP In-Reply-To: <00af01c08505$7d348ae0$0100a8c0@hal-9000-2> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Mark Gregory wrote: > I spent an enjoyable weekend dissassembling, cleaning, and re-assembling a > 433MP (introduced 1990, so just on-topic). It came from an industrial <...> > - the system has 2 x 486/33 processor cards installed - one base CPU card, > and one CPU/SCSI card. The system can hold up to 4 processor cards; were > there any OSes that could use 4 processors at a time? Is it worth hunting > down two extra CPU cards? > > - the processor cards use Intel 80486 DX chips at 33 Mhz. I dimly recall > that the 80486DX2/66 is a drop in replacement for the 80486DX33. Can I get a > quick speed boost by swapping the processor chips? This can't be from 1990. I remember soiling my shorts over a 386/DX-40 in 1992. As far as I know, the 486 wasn't introduced until a couple years later. I reserve the right to be wrong on this :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Jan 23 04:38:03 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: ICEbox, AppDEC, KIM, Communicator Message-ID: <01Jan23.103806gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:57:30 -0800 > From: Chuck McManis > Subject: Re: Intel ???? rescued, weekend finds > > This is "The ICEBox" an in-circuit emulator for Intel > processors. It is a > great way to bring up new designs and defeat copy protection > schemes :-) I've got a similar beast manufactured by Amtron. It's a 386PC with a specialized interface card that you plug these bloody huge and heavy boxes into that you must piggyback over a CPU or something. It came with pods for 8086, 8088, 286, 386SX, 386DX, 486 and 68K chips. Haven't powered it up yet, and some of the pods have never been taken out of their rather large boxes. No docs though. > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:17:44 -0500 > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > > According to an ex-Commodore engineer I used to correspond > with, they were one and the same thing, as Commodore never did Have you still got his details? Could you ask him about the European P500? :) > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:02:00 -0500 > From: Gene Ehrich > Subject: TI Expansion Unit > > I have the following that I am selling for an acquaintance. > > Let me know if you know anyone who is interested. > > Texas Instruments Home Computer Peripheral Expansion System > Model No. PHP1200 in Original Box > > Never used . I'm interested but I guess I'm in the wrong country :( > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:40:04 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > Subject: Re: Windes ME > > And the N9000 Communicator uses a pair of 80386 CPUs. The 9110 uses an > 80486. I know, I was there. (: Does it? Ooo - I've got a 9110 right next to me ATM, but it looks a bit dead :( > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:26:14 -0700 > From: "Mark Gregory" > Subject: applicationDEC 433MP > > - - the machine has 2 memory boards, which give a maximum of > 32 megs of ECC > RAM, with 40 x 1 meg SIMMs. Can the system use more than 2 > memory boards, to > go to 64 megs? Or can the 1 meg SIMMs be replaced by 4 meg SIMMs? These things top out at 16mb and only report 14mb available...... > there any OSes that could use 4 processors at a time? Is it > worth hunting down two extra CPU cards? The only OS to use the dual CPU was a SMP version of SCO U**x 3.x, but I could never see the point of a dual CPU machine with so little RAM available! > - - there's a TZK10-AA tape drive in the system. What tape > cartridges does this drive use? Off the top of my head I can't remember, so I'll go downstairs and get the DEC bumf for it. > engineered, but I had never heard of them before I found this > one, and the > MicroPDP-11 that I got with it ... but that's another story. We only ever sold 1 (the mini version) to a local college to run some financials on, we used one internally for SCO development (ack - what a terrible OS), another one ended up with NT on it as a server and it ended its days as a humble fax server - the other one ended up with Winduhs 95 on running as a Quake server :o)) I think they were eclipsed 'cos that was around the time the PC market started exploding..... > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:16:55 -0700 > From: "Richard Erlacher" > Subject: Re: KIM-1 restoration advice sought > > switch matrix to match what's on the KIM. I've built memory > circuits, etc, > for the KIM, but never paid much attention to the KIM itself, > hence, I can't > remember anything specific about the keypad, except that it Do you know anything about memory modules for the KIM made by "The Computerist"? My Kim's got one and I was told it's also an EPROM blower.... Ross: > Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I don't think it > has anything like standard parts. Everything about it looks > custom-molded to fit the > unusual key shape (curved keytops with painted legends and > smoothly-rounded key edges), unusual key layout (slide switch > + two independent buttons and 3 x 7 matrix of scanned buttons). > > The way it's put together suggests to me a very well-designed > custom keypad that would only make sense if sold in the > thousands. > > Of course, as always, I could be wrong. :) I think that the keypad for the KIM is actually from one of the CBM calculators of the day since they'll have had one or two lying around! Certainly from a looks point of view its identical to the keypad on one of my non-scientific calcs from around '76/'77, both layout and power switch are the same. Back on me head :o) -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 23 04:42:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought In-Reply-To: <002301c08514$d92fc300$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010118093346.34df78f6@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3A6D0673.1CC5C7B9@topnow.com> <002301c08514$d92fc300$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >There are several switch makers that sell keypads that are simply switch >arrays which you can hook up however you like. If you look at a few switch >makers' catalogs, perhaps you can find what you need and then connect the >switch matrix to match what's on the KIM. I've built memory circuits, etc, >for the KIM, but never paid much attention to the KIM itself, hence, I can't >remember anything specific about the keypad, except that it could easily >have been better, and could only have been worse with great difficulty. I The keys on my VIM-1 are on a single large pressure sensitive pad about 1/8 inch thick. Ruuning one's fingers across it, it's barely noticable when you cross from one key to another. It doesn't seem to be a keypad that would stand up to much use. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 23 05:06:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: Free windaq data I/O thingy In-Reply-To: <01Jan23.103806gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: This is off topic, but I am guessing a few of you will like it, maybe US only I don't know. Fill out a short form, business addresses only, and they ship you a free serial port based I/O module, looks like both analog and digital stuff plus their windows based software package. Looks like fun to me. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 05:33:58 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought In-Reply-To: <3A6D0673.1CC5C7B9@topnow.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:20:03 -0800 Ross Archer wrote: > Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I don't think it has anything like > standard parts. Everything about it looks custom-molded to fit the > unusual key shape (curved keytops with painted legends and smoothly- > rounded key edges), unusual key layout (slide switch + two independent > buttons and 3 x 7 matrix of scanned buttons). > > The way it's put together suggests to me a very well-designed custom > keypad that would only make sense if sold in the thousands. My KIM-1 has a keypad that looks (to me) just like the keyboard of a late 1970s Commodore calculator. With different legends on the buttons, of course. There's even the "on" marking next to the switch. I wonder if it was, in fact, done by modifying an existing calculator keyboard design? And, if it was, could you fix it with parts from a Commodore calculator? Just in case it helps, here's an image I got over the weekend of my KIM-1: http://www.csm.uwe.ac.uk/~jrhonnib/images/kim1.jpg It's quite a big JPEG (325k) but it does show the machine in detail. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From jrice at texoma.net Tue Jan 23 06:15:10 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 References: Message-ID: <3A6D75CE.F8B9E216@texoma.net> Mine is a snap on for the surface mount boards, just fits down over the SMC 386. Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Kingston makes a turbochip for the socketed 386's but I'm not sure if they > have a version for the surface mounts that don't have an upgrade socket. > They have full info and docs on their website. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of James Rice > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 386 to 486 > > I have on of the upgrades for 386sx to 486slc. It is an evergreen design, > but only > works with certain steppings of the 386sx chip. > > James > > Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have any of the 386 to 486 upgrades that plug > > > > into the 386DX socket, usually using the TI 486SLC? I know Evergreen > > > > made such a beast, and in fact one just went up for sale on eBay. > > > > Does anyone have one they'd like to part with? > > > > > > Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. > > > > They did -- I remember the upgrade kits. Dad nearly bought one but instead > > fried our 386SX with a Cyrix co-processor which shorted out the board. > Well, > > it could have been Dad, and not the chip ;-) but we seemed to upgrade only > > when Dad destroyed the computer. The 386 went up in smoke, so Dad got a > > 486DX/40, and then that literally burned down (the board one day just > started > > to warp and black wisps came out the cooling vents), so we got the P75. > ;-) > > The K2-450 they have now was because of Y2K fears, which turned out to be > > unfounded, so my little sister has the P75. When she gets sick of it, I'll > > use it to play old DOS games that Virtual PC doesn't like. > > > > -- > > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > > -- Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality. -- de > Gaultier --- -- ICQ 2286850 Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html Robotics Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/hobbies.html All pages under construction! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 23 08:37:41 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: OT: Jokes -- New One-Liners....... Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010123093741.371fd91a@mailhost.intellistar.net> >Subject: New One-Liners....... > > 1. Home is where you hang your @ > > 2. The E-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail.. > > 3. A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click.. > > 4. You can't teach a new mouse old clicks.. > > 5. Great groups from little icons grow.. > > 6. Speak softly and carry a cellular phone.. > > 7. C:\ is the root of all directories.. > > 8. Don't put all your hypes in one home page.. > > 9. Pentium wise; pen and paper foolish.. > > 10. The modem is the message.. > > 11. Too many clicks spoil the browse.. > > 12. The geek shall inherit the earth.. > > 13. A chat has nine lives.. > > 14. Don't byte off more than you can view.. > > 15. Fax is stranger than fiction.. > > 16. What boots up must come down.. > > 17. Windows will never cease.. > > 18. In Gates we trust.. > > 19. Virtual reality is its own reward.. > > 20. Modulation in all things.. > > 21. A user and his leisure time are soon parted.. > > 22. Know what to expect before you connect.. > > 23. Oh, what a tangled Web site we weave when first we practice... > > 24. Speed thrills.. > > And, finally... > > 25. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; > teach him to use the Web and he won't bother you for weeks............. > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 23 08:46:29 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:20 2005 Subject: OT: Jokes -- New One-Liners....... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010123093741.371fd91a@mailhost.intellistar.net> from Joe at "Jan 23, 1 09:37:41 am" Message-ID: <200101231446.GAA10404@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > 9. Pentium wise; pen and paper foolish.. Not me, I say PowerPC. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Chemistry is applied theology. -- Augustus Stanley Owsley III -------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 23 10:11:00 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010123111100.3207d15e@mailhost.intellistar.net> "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208941360" From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Jan 23 01:12:36 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > One last thought... do any of the TRS-80 Model I emulators have serial > > port support? Would this not solve your problem if they did, or is there > > some real-world problem you're trying to solve? > > It needs to run on the original TRS-80. > Ok, why? :) g. From emu at ecubics.com Tue Jan 23 09:18:43 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. References: <3.0.1.16.20010123111100.3207d15e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3A6DA0D3.6C4ECC82@ecubics.com> Joe wrote: > > "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208941360" Is there a webpage somewhere with descriptions of old tekronix terminals ? cheers From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 23 09:31:04 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. References: <3.0.1.16.20010123111100.3207d15e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <016b01c08551$8489c340$ae784ed8@DOMAIN> Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. > "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208941360" > > wow... sniper climbing tree. ;) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Jan 23 09:51:20 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: HP 95LX at a good price Message-ID: <200101231551.HAA11312@stockholm.ptloma.edu> eBay's prices for HP 95LX's are ridiculous. It doesn't have to be the 1MB model but I need another one to do some hardware hacking on. Does anyone have a source for these, or would be willing to sell? Also, I came up with an Aquarius 4K memory pack this weekend. Seems to be in good condition. If anyone's after one of these, let me know and we'll work out something. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The optimum committee has no members. -- Norman Augustine ------------------ From ernestls at home.com Tue Jan 23 10:07:48 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Looking for Acorn Electron Plus 3 or Plus 4 add-on (what is a Plus 2?) In-Reply-To: <01Jan23.103806gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: I'm trying to find a Plus 3 or Plus 4 add-on for my Electron if anyone has one to sell. Also, what was the Plus 2 unit? I know that: Plus 1 = Serial, joystick, and ROM cartridge port. Plus 2 = ? Plus 3 = 3.5 inch drive Plus 4 = 5.25 inch drive Were there others? Ernest From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 23 10:49:14 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: HP 95LX at a good price In-Reply-To: <200101231551.HAA11312@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010123104430.01d386e0@pc> At 07:51 AM 1/23/01 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >eBay's prices for HP 95LX's are ridiculous. It doesn't have to be the 1MB >model but I need another one to do some hardware hacking on. Does anyone >have a source for these, or would be willing to sell? Where were these $212 bidders when I sold two for $31 and $36 - with a 1 meg RAM card and manual - just a few weeks ago? Define 'ridiculous'. :-) I think I still have three or four to sell. I'd put them away to appreciate in value. :-) And I thought the presence of the RAM card would drive the price up... and apparently AC adapters aren't the driving force, either. - John From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 23 11:11:24 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: ICEbox, AppDEC, KIM, Communicator References: <01Jan23.103806gmt.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <000d01c0855f$85166a80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I don't know much about the KIM, though a couple of my friends had them back in the '70's. At one time, I had a LARGE number of KIM-2 and a few KIM-3 boards, which were scrap, made by a local PC house with MOS Technology's tradmark. These were 4K and 8K, respectively, in size and were SRAMs with on-board power supply regulation. Though they had the KIM bus connector and were more or less the size of the KIM-1, they didn't seem to align with the connectors on the KIM-1, suggesting that the bus connector on the KIM-4 (the expansion backplane, which I've never seen, was more or less in the center of the board and would have aligned between the two connectors on the KIM-1. I saved one of each of these boards, though I've not seen them for several years, having promised them to one of the KIM users on this list. I may well have tossed them in a moment of madness due to frustration over my poor housekeeping ... who knows? ... One of these days I may find them again. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Graham" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 3:38 AM Subject: ICEbox, AppDEC, KIM, Communicator > > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:57:30 -0800 > > From: Chuck McManis > > Subject: Re: Intel ???? rescued, weekend finds > > > > This is "The ICEBox" an in-circuit emulator for Intel > > processors. It is a > > great way to bring up new designs and defeat copy protection > > schemes :-) > > I've got a similar beast manufactured by Amtron. It's a 386PC with a > specialized interface card that you plug these bloody huge and heavy boxes > into that you must piggyback over a CPU or something. It came with pods for > 8086, 8088, 286, 386SX, 386DX, 486 and 68K chips. Haven't powered it up yet, > and some of the pods have never been taken out of their rather large boxes. > > No docs though. > > > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:17:44 -0500 > > From: Jeff Hellige > > Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > > > > According to an ex-Commodore engineer I used to correspond > > with, they were one and the same thing, as Commodore never did > > Have you still got his details? Could you ask him about the European P500? > :) > > > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:02:00 -0500 > > From: Gene Ehrich > > Subject: TI Expansion Unit > > > > I have the following that I am selling for an acquaintance. > > > > Let me know if you know anyone who is interested. > > > > Texas Instruments Home Computer Peripheral Expansion System > > Model No. PHP1200 in Original Box > > > > Never used > > . I'm interested but I guess I'm in the wrong country :( > > > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:40:04 -0500 (EST) > > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > > Subject: Re: Windes ME > > > > And the N9000 Communicator uses a pair of 80386 CPUs. The 9110 uses an > > 80486. I know, I was there. (: > > Does it? Ooo - I've got a 9110 right next to me ATM, but it looks a bit dead > :( > > > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:26:14 -0700 > > From: "Mark Gregory" > > Subject: applicationDEC 433MP > > > > - - the machine has 2 memory boards, which give a maximum of > > 32 megs of ECC > > RAM, with 40 x 1 meg SIMMs. Can the system use more than 2 > > memory boards, to > > go to 64 megs? Or can the 1 meg SIMMs be replaced by 4 meg SIMMs? > > These things top out at 16mb and only report 14mb available...... > > > there any OSes that could use 4 processors at a time? Is it > > worth hunting down two extra CPU cards? > > The only OS to use the dual CPU was a SMP version of SCO U**x 3.x, but I > could never see the point of a dual CPU machine with so little RAM > available! > > > - - there's a TZK10-AA tape drive in the system. What tape > > cartridges does this drive use? > > Off the top of my head I can't remember, so I'll go downstairs and get the > DEC bumf for it. > > > engineered, but I had never heard of them before I found this > > one, and the > > MicroPDP-11 that I got with it ... but that's another story. > > We only ever sold 1 (the mini version) to a local college to run some > financials on, we used one internally for SCO development (ack - what a > terrible OS), another one ended up with NT on it as a server and it ended > its days as a humble fax server - the other one ended up with Winduhs 95 on > running as a Quake server :o)) > > I think they were eclipsed 'cos that was around the time the PC market > started exploding..... > > > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:16:55 -0700 > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > Subject: Re: KIM-1 restoration advice sought > > > > switch matrix to match what's on the KIM. I've built memory > > circuits, etc, > > for the KIM, but never paid much attention to the KIM itself, > > hence, I can't > > remember anything specific about the keypad, except that it > > Do you know anything about memory modules for the KIM made by "The > Computerist"? My Kim's got one and I was told it's also an EPROM blower.... > > Ross: > > > Thanks for the offer, but unfortunately I don't think it > > has anything like standard parts. Everything about it looks > > custom-molded to fit the > > unusual key shape (curved keytops with painted legends and > > smoothly-rounded key edges), unusual key layout (slide switch > > + two independent buttons and 3 x 7 matrix of scanned buttons). > > > > The way it's put together suggests to me a very well-designed > > custom keypad that would only make sense if sold in the > > thousands. > > > > Of course, as always, I could be wrong. :) > > I think that the keypad for the KIM is actually from one of the CBM > calculators of the day since they'll have had one or two lying around! > Certainly from a looks point of view its identical to the keypad on one of > my non-scientific calcs from around '76/'77, both layout and power switch > are the same. > > Back on me head :o) > > -- > Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP > C CAT Limited > Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) > (home) > (The Online Computer Museum) > 0/0 > > > From hellige at mediacen.navy.mil Tue Jan 23 11:24:10 2001 From: hellige at mediacen.navy.mil (Hellige, Jeff SK2) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Hyperion on eBay Message-ID: <01Jan23.122612est.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> It's not labled as such, but there's a Hyperion currently on eBay with the 'purchase now' option set at $40. It's got the canvas carrying case as well. It's URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1209583008 Again, I have no connection to the seller. Just thought I'd pass this on since a number of people have mentioned being on the look-out for this machine. Jeff From rws at enteract.com Tue Jan 23 11:37:44 2001 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: Hi everybody- I just recently acquired a whole bunch of stuff out of a company's basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a pdp-11/44, 4 RL02's, an RP06, a TS11, and spare parts and printsets galore. (Yes, John Foust, the little pdp-11/44 in Milwaukee led to all that.) All the equipment was brought up a flight of carpeted stairs by a refrigerator dolly and human power, except the RP06 and the 780 where we used a come-along and a lifting frame I made. Heavy! Anyway, the 780 needs a floppy to boot. The previous owner says he doesn't have it, and I can't find it (although I'm not done searching yet). Is this the sort of thing that is generically available, on the WWW for instance, or is it something that is built up specifically for the mix of options I have in the machine? Incidentally, does anyone here that has a 780 (I know there are several in the group) run theirs? It takes 3 phase power, but there are no loads connected phase-to-phase, only phase-to-neutral (although there is a small 3-phase transformer in the power controller, it could probably be wired to only use one phase or else bypassed completely) so it can run entirely on 110 volts, at about 60-70 amps continuous draw. I was thinking of using split-phase 220, putting 2 phases on one hot and 1 on the other, then putting the Unibus cabinet and disk and tape drives on the hot with only 1 phase on it. I figure this would about balance the draw at 40 amps, 220 volts, which isn't too unreasonable. Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 23 11:41:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: KIM-1 restoration advice sought References: <3.0.1.16.20010118093346.34df78f6@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3A6D0673.1CC5C7B9@topnow.com> <002301c08514$d92fc300$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <001501c08563$c1e76dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It doesn't hurt to remember that the KIM was, as much as anything, a demonstration board for the MOS Technology peripherals that were used in it. It wasn't really intended for a lifetime of use as a computer, so some of the "features" may need to be babied somewhat. Later vendors of similar products had to make their demo boards similar enough to compete but either more feature-rich or less costly. Cutting cost on a keyboard is not always a good thing, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 3:42 AM Subject: Re: KIM-1 restoration advice sought > >There are several switch makers that sell keypads that are simply switch > >arrays which you can hook up however you like. If you look at a few switch > >makers' catalogs, perhaps you can find what you need and then connect the > >switch matrix to match what's on the KIM. I've built memory circuits, etc, > >for the KIM, but never paid much attention to the KIM itself, hence, I can't > >remember anything specific about the keypad, except that it could easily > >have been better, and could only have been worse with great difficulty. I > > The keys on my VIM-1 are on a single large pressure sensitive > pad about 1/8 inch thick. Ruuning one's fingers across it, it's > barely noticable when you cross from one key to another. It doesn't > seem to be a keypad that would stand up to much use. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Jan 23 12:01:59 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010123120116.01d2df00@pc> At 11:37 AM 1/23/01 -0600, Richard W. Schauer wrote: >I just recently acquired a whole bunch of stuff out of a company's >basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a >pdp-11/44, 4 RL02's, an RP06, a TS11, and spare parts and printsets >galore. (Yes, John Foust, the little pdp-11/44 in Milwaukee led to all >that.) Wow, so does this mean you'll deliver the 45 to me? :-) Congratulations on a great haul! - John From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 23 11:13:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Getting desparate for TRS-80 serial card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > One last thought... do any of the TRS-80 Model I emulators have serial > > > port support? Would this not solve your problem if they did, or is there > > > some real-world problem you're trying to solve? > > > > It needs to run on the original TRS-80. > > > Ok, why? :) For demo purposes ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Jan 23 12:27:10 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: VAX-11/780 boot disk (Richard W. Schauer) References: Message-ID: <14957.52478.235515.195721@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 23, Richard W. Schauer wrote: > I just recently acquired a whole bunch of stuff out of a company's > basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a > pdp-11/44, 4 RL02's, an RP06, a TS11, and spare parts and printsets > galore. (Yes, John Foust, the little pdp-11/44 in Milwaukee led to all > that.) All the equipment was brought up a flight of carpeted stairs by a > refrigerator dolly and human power, except the RP06 and the 780 where we > used a come-along and a lifting frame I made. Heavy! Wow...that's an excellent haul! -Dave McGuire From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 12:45:49 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: Yup, definetly a decent haul... I think my record is 3 Interdata 7/32C's, 3 Perkin-Elmer 3210's, a Perkin-Elmer 3205, 2 Perkin-Elmer 3203's, 5 terminals, 3 tape drives, 16 or so hard disks, some graphics terminal with a joystick, and an entire pallet of manuals. All together: 14 pallets of stuff... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Tue Jan 23 12:55:49 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c0856e$1c3c8940$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > Anyway, the 780 needs a floppy to boot. Is this the sort > of thing that is generically available, on the WWW for instance Don't take this for the definitive answer, but... "S'matter, Don't you think one of us has one?" I have a collection of old DEC 8"/Vax era at home. If you don't get lucky elsewhere there may be something you can use. I used to have exactly what you wanted in my travel case in 1982. Since I didn't steal that one from work we'll see if there's another one from history since (mainly the MIT swap meet). John A. From philpem at btinternet.com Tue Jan 23 13:50:00 2001 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Controller schematic - anyone? Message-ID: <003101c08575$acf6d7e0$9be37ad5@papemjr> Hi, I'm currently designing and building a 6502-based computer system for my own use. Right now, everything is done. Except the damn floppy controller. I read about the Apple floppy controller on the 'net (woz.org) and I would like to get hold of some schematics. Anyone got any idea where I could get these? Better yet, anyone mind scanning and e-mailing me it? Thanks. -- Phil. http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ philpem@bigfoot.com PGP Key Fingerprint: 1FA6 6C7F A2FD BB15 84BF 4993 2B27 0628 E54E 33B1 From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 23 14:15:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Apple Floppy Controller schematic - anyone? References: <003101c08575$acf6d7e0$9be37ad5@papemjr> Message-ID: <005f01c08579$3e4dd880$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The schematic of the Apple controller is in the Apple DOS manual, but it may not be of much help, as it requires a prom , the content of which isn't in the schematic. You might check wiht Eric Smith, as I would easily believe that he might have such information. The Apple controller, PROM and all would, by the way, EASILY fit in a CPLD/FPGA, which might save no little wiring, etc. If you can't get this schematic anywhere else, let me know and I'll make and send you a scan. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Pemberton" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: Apple Floppy Controller schematic - anyone? > Hi, > I'm currently designing and building a 6502-based computer system for my > own use. Right now, everything is done. Except the damn floppy controller. I > read about the Apple floppy controller on the 'net (woz.org) and I would > like to get hold of some schematics. Anyone got any idea where I could get > these? Better yet, anyone mind scanning and e-mailing me it? > > Thanks. > -- > Phil. > http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ > philpem@bigfoot.com > PGP Key Fingerprint: > 1FA6 6C7F A2FD BB15 84BF > 4993 2B27 0628 E54E 33B1 > > From rws at enteract.com Tue Jan 23 14:35:16 2001 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: <14957.52478.235515.195721@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On January 23, Richard W. Schauer wrote: > > basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a > > pdp-11/44, 4 RL02's, an RP06, a TS11, and spare parts and printsets > Wow...that's an excellent haul! I was pretty happy with it. It started as a pdp-11/44 "and a RP06 you can have if you can haul it up the stairs". It took 3 trips to get all that stuff, the last one with a big truck. I've got to go back and get 2 more Unibus cardcages for the big VAX (spares), and about 2 RK05 drives. I do have to stop sometime though, or else the Delorean will be out in the street! Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From joseph.gaspard at gensiasicor.com Tue Jan 23 14:38:52 2001 From: joseph.gaspard at gensiasicor.com (joseph.gaspard@gensiasicor.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX 4000/200 Message-ID: I am actively looking for a working DEC VAX 4000/200 with Open VMS, drives, SCSI capable and in good repair. It will be used to support an existing VAX in our system. If anyone has one or can tell me where to find one, I would appreciate it very much. Joseph Gaspard Senior Systems Engineer GensiaSicor Pharmaceuticals Irvine, California. From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Jan 23 14:34:29 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: applicationDEC 433MP References: Message-ID: <000701c0857b$e33a6320$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:12 AM Subject: Re: applicationDEC 433MP > On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Mark Gregory wrote: > > > > > - the processor cards use Intel 80486 DX chips at 33 Mhz. I dimly recall > > that the 80486DX2/66 is a drop in replacement for the 80486DX33. Can I get a > > quick speed boost by swapping the processor chips? > > This can't be from 1990. I remember soiling my shorts over a 386/DX-40 in > 1992. As far as I know, the 486 wasn't introduced until a couple years > later. > > I reserve the right to be wrong on this :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > Your honour, I offer into evidence from http://www.digital.se/foretagsinfo/mileston.htm : "October 1990 Introduction of the applicationDEC 433MP system, Digital's most expandable system for small and medium-sized businesses, which is based on the popular SCO UNIX System V and the Intel 486 microprocessor." And according to http://www.intel.com/intel/museum/25anniv/hof/486.htm , the 80486 DX processor was introduced in 1989. Of course, these babies weren't exactly in the consumer channel in 1989/90. IIRC, I found a reference to the original purchase price of an appDEC 433MP being $15,000 US. Cheers, Mark. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 23 15:16:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1664 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010123/36175dba/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Jan 23 14:22:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: applicationDEC 433MP In-Reply-To: <000701c0857b$e33a6320$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Mark Gregory wrote: > Your honour, I offer into evidence from > http://www.digital.se/foretagsinfo/mileston.htm : > > "October 1990 > > Introduction of the applicationDEC 433MP system, Digital's most expandable > system for small and medium-sized businesses, which is based on the > popular SCO UNIX System V and the Intel 486 microprocessor." > > And according to http://www.intel.com/intel/museum/25anniv/hof/486.htm , > the 80486 DX processor was introduced in 1989. > > Of course, these babies weren't exactly in the consumer channel in 1989/90. > IIRC, I found a reference to the original purchase price of an appDEC 433MP > being $15,000 US. I stand completely corrected. Thanks for the info. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Tue Jan 23 16:06:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector References: Message-ID: <006f01c08588$c0427080$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Easy, now, Tony ... I "feel your pain" (using the popular clintonism) about the notion of standards with respect to folks working mainly with PC's, but you must remember that the SUN-style DD50 for SCSI is not in the SCSI standard. It's probably a better connector than the telco-style connector that is, but it's so much more expensive (the same $30 that the IDC version really does cost would buy two or three of the SCSI-1 cables at the local PC store) that nobody really worries about it much. BTW, DEC was the one that corrupted the notion of "standard" usage of the connectors on serial I/O cabling. They were at one point the most standardized users of the DB-25, with 'S' connectors on the bulkead and 'P' types on the cables, but then they wandered away from their own usage conventions. Once upon a time you could tell whether the cable was for DTE, DCE, or was a null modem, just by looking for pin 20. If it was populated, that end went to the terminal equipmen. If pin 6 was populated, it went to DCE. If it had one at each end, it was a null modem cable. Those were the "good old days." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:16 PM Subject: DD50 SCSI connector > > > > On 23 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > What kind of connector is it? How many pins, what does it measure? The SUN > > > SCSI boxes I've encountered have either used Mini-DB50 (modern ones) or > > > Centronics-50 (big old ones). > > > > They're the large three row 50 pin D type (not centronics). Somebody told > > me off list that they were the standard type on Sun 3 machines. > > Sounds like a standard DD50 connector. It is one of the standard SCSI-1 > connectors, used on all sorts of machines (Suns, PERQ 3as, etc). > > One thing worth knowing about this connector is that if you take the IDC > version of the plug or socket and crimp it to a piece of 50 way ribbon > cable, the signals are in the same order as those on a piece of ribbon > cable crimped to the 50 pin Amphenol (often incorrectly called > 'Centronics') connector or crimped to a 50 pin 2 row header socket to fit > the plug on a disk drive. So it's easy to make up adapters between the > DD50 connector and the Amphenol one (say) -- just crimp the connectors > onto a short piece of 50 way IDC ribbon cable, taking care to get pin 1 > of each connector at the same end of the cable. I've done that several times. > > The problem with this is that the DD50 IDC connectors are quite > complicated to make and thus expensive. Expect to pay \pounds 20.00 (say > $30) each for them. > > It would appear that any connector not commonly used on PCs can't be a > 'standard' to most people. I've got fed up with explaining to the goons > in the local PC shops that a standard serial port has 25 pins on a DB25 > connector and that the DE9 serial port on PC/AT and later machines is not > a true standard. Oh well... > > > -tony > > From alex at linuxhacker.org Tue Jan 23 16:16:31 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > 'standard' to most people. I've got fed up with explaining to the goons > in the local PC shops that a standard serial port has 25 pins on a DB25 You've made the classic mistake of thinking that the kind of person who works in Tandy or PC World actually cares about the things that they sell. On the rare occasions that I need to go into a high street shop, I just keep my head down and try to scare away any assistants who get too close with a blast of jargon (which sometimes backfires when they misinterpret what I said to mean "I'm an idiot, please try to sell me an overpriced PC"). Trying to explain things like the difference between a Winmodem and a Hayes compatible modem, or active versus passive SCSI termination, is almost always an exercise in futility. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 23 16:34:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: <006f01c08588$c0427080$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 23, 1 03:06:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010123/55629397/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 23 16:39:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: from "Alex Holden" at Jan 23, 1 10:16:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1350 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010123/a7b38ac4/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 23 17:17:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >PC"). Trying to explain things like the difference between a Winmodem and >a Hayes compatible modem, or active versus passive SCSI termination, is >almost always an exercise in futility. those Winmodems are some of the biggest pieces of junk. I'll keep my Hayes-compatible modems which are usable with nearly everything you can wire a serial port up to. My first modem wasn't even Hayes compatible though....being a Racal-Vadic my dad had connected to a terminal so that he could dial into his company's mainframe. Took me forever to get my term. program to dial out on it using DOS 2.11. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Jan 22 09:13:02 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge Eprom type? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010123233523.VYVF2567.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Atari Basic resides in an 8kbyte rom or a pair of 4k roms. It is an excellent Basic and has many custom commands to control the Atari's unique suite of custom coprocessors for graphics, i/o, and sound. It has relatively primitive string handling, upper-case only commands, and no modern fuctions like named proceedures, while, else, etcetera. Basic XL and Basic XE are products which combine a completely compatible basic (oss wrote Atari Basic in the first place as Shepherdson Microsystems) with extensions which give everything Atari Basic lacks and much more. They do so with a larger set of roms and bank selecting between them to stay within the 8k compatibility window of Atari Basic. Atari Microsoft Basic does have extensions to run graphics and sound, but is about ten times slower than Atari Basic and 25 times slower than Basic XL or Basic XE. It doesn't provide some features the others do and isn't downwardly compatible with Atari Basic. I never used it and don't know anyone who has. There is another Basic for the Atari that is better than all four mentioned above, is compatible with Atari Basic, faster than any other, and which has all of the expected enhancements plus MUCH MUCH more. It is also compileable and comes with a runtime kit. In short, get TURBOBASIC. The only downside to TurboBasic is that in order to conceal it's larger memory footprint for compatability reasons, TurboBasic resides mostly in the 16k ram located 'under' the operating system roms. This is fine, and lots of excellent software for the Atari does that, but because of this, Turbobasic will not run on Spartados versions 2 thru 3 as they use that same memory region. Spartados X and versions below 2 will work as will any version of Ataridos or it's clones. The runtime kit runs on any dos. There is a 'patched' version which will run on Spartados 2.x and 3.x, but it bumps memlo. Best yet! TurboBasic is FREE. I was dumbfounded when it came out. First at how good it is, then at the price. The only thing I wonder is, is a rom absolutely neccessary for your project? You can get a burner for the Atari from CSS Inc. of Rochester NY if they still sell em'. The roms are standard 27xx series roms with a max of 16k unless you use some kind of 'supercart' banking scheme ala ICD/OSS products. Regards, Jeff In , on 01/22/01 at 10:13 AM, Jeff Hellige said: >>On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: >> >>> I'd be suprised if you could fit a reasonable BASIC interpretter into 2K >>> or even 4K of 6502 code.... >> >>Woz did it with the Apple-1 and Apple ][. Integer BASIC fits inside 16 >>pages of memory (1024 bytes). And it's quite capable, including low-res >>graphics routines even. > One reason I would think Atari BASIC would be a bit larger is the fact >that it included support for all the advanced features of the Atari >hardware, such as collision detection and player-missle graphics. You >could easily do graphics with 128 colors onscreen from within BASIC, and >in fact Compute! published a demo that did just that drawing the Atari >logo, this on a bone-stock 800. This was in contrast to C-64 BASIC >which was able to directly take advantage of few of it's features, such >as the sound and graphics modes, without the addition of things such as >Simon's BASIC. Did the Atari version of Microsoft BASIC retain the >hardware access, or was it more just a generic version? > Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 23 18:07:44 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: 386 to 486 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <729.424T2200T676197optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: >> >>Did TI make a 486SLC too? I thought that was an IBM-exclusive design. > Now that I've thought about it a while, I was probably >thinking of the 486DLC when I typed that. I used to have a 386 >motherboard that had an updated BIOS for the DLC, which was >pincompatible with the 386DX. It had the DLC already installed when >I bought it new and though it wasn't as fast as a 486DX part, it was >better than the 386's I had been running. The 486SLC is compatible with the i386, too, and runs happily along with an i387. It's not particularly slow either, in particular due to its L1 cache. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 23 20:32:36 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. In-Reply-To: <016b01c08551$8489c340$ae784ed8@DOMAIN> References: <3.0.1.16.20010123111100.3207d15e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010123213236.3df72dca@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:31 AM 1/23/01 -0500, Mike wrote: >Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. > > >> "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208941360" >> >> > >wow... sniper climbing tree. ;) > > Good Luck, Mike. Let me know if you get it. I have LOTS of docs and hardware for it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 23 20:30:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4051 for sale on E-bay. In-Reply-To: <3A6DA0D3.6C4ECC82@ecubics.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010123111100.3207d15e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010123213043.3df70a64@mailhost.intellistar.net> Not that I know of. BUT the 4051 is a graphics computer and not a terminal. I have one and there are a couple of others on the list that also have one. Joe At 08:18 AM 1/23/01 -0700, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208941360" > >Is there a webpage somewhere with descriptions of old tekronix terminals >? > >cheers > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 23 20:07:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? Message-ID: <200101240207.SAA26034@shell1.aracnet.com> OK, I just found online and purchased the following books: Programming with RT-11 Vol. 1 Program Development by Clinch, Simon & Stephen Peters Programming with RT-11. Vol. 2 Callable System by Peters, Stephen, et al. Working with RT-11 y Beaumont, David, et al. Tailoring RT-11. System Management and Programming Facilitie by Clinch, Simon, et al. Now I'm wondering if there are any other books on RT-11 available (besides the actual doc sets) and if these books were worth getting? Zane From allain at panix.com Tue Jan 23 20:08:07 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk References: <000201c0856e$1c3c8940$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <04dc01c085aa$7edb2700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Re: VAX-11/780 boot 8" floppies The best hit I have is this one: Feb 25 1981 AS-E989H-YE RX4 11780 Remote Console (c) 1978,80 Digital Equipment Corporation and there is one, other, with handwritten label: "VMS V3 WCS Boots DR0 BAD" Speak if'n you want. John A. (from Home) From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Jan 23 20:21:08 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.20010123211739.00a24a70@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 11:37 AM 1/23/01 -0600, Richard W. Schauer said something like: >Hi everybody- > >I just recently acquired a whole bunch of stuff out of a company's >basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a Nice basement! What a great haul Richard! >phase on it. I figure this would about balance the draw at 40 amps, 220 >volts, which isn't too unreasonable. Not if you live in California nowadays! :-) Have fun with all of it! That's what can be great about our hobby (a.k.a. affliction) ;-) -Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Jan 23 20:38:51 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: need: ext. cdrom for vax 3100/76 In-Reply-To: <009a01c084ea$f8251f50$ac749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Iggy Drougge > > >ajp166 skrev: > > > >>Also for those that dont know or havent tried, the image the mop loader > >>sends > >>out does nto have to be VMS. We used it for ELN and other toys at DEC. > > > >ELN? > > > ELN was a real time framweork for stand alone applications that was > somewhat compatable with VMS filesystem. MDM {microvax diagnostic > monitor} is written on the ELN framework. > > Allison > AKA VAX-ELAN From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Jan 23 20:52:54 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:21 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Richard, On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Richard W. Schauer wrote: > Hi everybody- > > I just recently acquired a whole bunch of stuff out of a company's > basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a > pdp-11/44, 4 RL02's, an RP06, a TS11, and spare parts and printsets > galore. Lucky B******D... Nobody in denver has a basement full of neat stuff like that... cept Will... (haven't forgotten the 11/34 printset yet) > (Yes, John Foust, the little pdp-11/44 in Milwaukee led to all > that.) All the equipment was brought up a flight of carpeted stairs by a > refrigerator dolly and human power, except the RP06 and the 780 where we > used a come-along and a lifting frame I made. Heavy! > Cool... I'm planning on moving my '780 into the basement with the same concept... > Anyway, the 780 needs a floppy to boot. The previous owner says he > doesn't have it, and I can't find it (although I'm not done searching > yet). I have at least one (in the machine), but it may be bad... I bought one from ebay, but again, it may be bad... I need a quick way to hook an 8" floppy up to a running computer to read it... Anyone know if I can plug an RX01 drive & QBus controller into a uVAX II? > Is this the sort of thing that is generically available, on the WWW > for instance, or is it something that is built up specifically for the mix > of options I have in the machine? > I haven't found anyplace yet, and once my toilet stops leaking (long story), I'll be putting together 780 & 750 software and paperware on a website... > Incidentally, does anyone here that has a 780 (I know there are several in > the group) run theirs? It takes 3 phase power, but there are no loads > connected phase-to-phase, only phase-to-neutral (although there is a small > 3-phase transformer in the power controller, it could probably be wired to > only use one phase or else bypassed completely) so it can run entirely on > 110 volts, at about 60-70 amps continuous draw. I was thinking of using > split-phase 220, putting 2 phases on one hot and 1 on the other, then > putting the Unibus cabinet and disk and tape drives on the hot with only 1 > phase on it. I figure this would about balance the draw at 40 amps, 220 > volts, which isn't too unreasonable. There is a single unregulated 25V supply (unknown current) which runs off a three phase x-former... This supply is then regulated down to +15V to run the airflow and temp switches, and also a 12mA(?) current source for some reason which escapes me... I think you should disconnect the three phase transformer before hooking up two phases to the same hot... My plan is to just set up a new 25V unregulated supply once I figure out how much current it needs to supply... > > Richard Schauer > rws@enteract.com > From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 23 18:26:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Sun monitor cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <674.424T900T864677optimus@canit.se> Alex Holden skrev: >On 23 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> What kind of connector is it? How many pins, what does it measure? The SUN >> SCSI boxes I've encountered have either used Mini-DB50 (modern ones) or >> Centronics-50 (big old ones). >They're the large three row 50 pin D type (not centronics). Somebody told >me off list that they were the standard type on Sun 3 machines. Ooh, those uglies. I've never encountered these on SUN equipment, but have seen it on a VAXstation. They're rather easy to find at second-hand electronics shops, according to my experience. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computer hackers do it all night long. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 22:28:38 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <20010124042838.28356.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: >... I need a quick way to hook an 8" floppy up to a running computer to read > it... > > Anyone know if I can plug an RX01 drive & QBus controller into a uVAX II? I think you need an RXV21 and an RX02. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From rws at enteract.com Tue Jan 23 22:34:25 2001 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > refrigerator dolly and human power, except the RP06 and the 780 where we > > used a come-along and a lifting frame I made. Heavy! > > Cool... I'm planning on moving my '780 into the basement with the same > concept... Actually, it didn't work all that well. If I had to do it all over again, I'd seriously think about taking the machine to bits. Of course, if you have something you can fasten the come-along to, it's easier. My lifting frame was intended to distribute the lifting force laterally on the bottoms of the walls of the building. The other problem is that there isn't a good place to pull on the 780; I bent the frame rails somewhat on the right side. Also it is top-heavy- once when we had to back up a bit it wanted to flip itself over. It took some persuasion to keep it sliding. > I have at least one (in the machine), but it may be bad... I bought one > from ebay, but again, it may be bad... I need a quick way to hook an > 8" floppy up to a running computer to read it... Ebay is the last place I would have thought of, but I guess it figures, everything else is sold there. > My plan is to just set up a new 25V unregulated supply once I figure > out how much current it needs to supply... You could probably do one of two easy things: 1. Unhook two phases and only run off one. I don't know what the current draw is, but the transformer may be able to handle it. It goes to a 6-diode bridge rectifier anyway. 2. (Temporary) Skip the power controller altogether. Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Jan 23 23:37:14 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DECwriter cartridges In-Reply-To: References: <009a01c084ea$f8251f50$ac749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: My wife was late for dinner, so my son and I wandered into the Office Depot to puruse the clearance. I found about 5 pairs of inkjet cartridges for Digital printers, and bought one set to get all the data and post to the list. They rang up with a original price of $48 and $18, but I paid a LOT less. If these are something you can use, email me directly and I will pass them on at very fair prices. I also bought a dozen "NuKote" Imagewriter II or NEC 8023 ribbons, but I am guessing those are cheap and easy to find anyplace. Digital brand sealed in black tubs with turquoise paper on the tops, the single tub thing says; digital Color Printhead DECwriter DECcolorwriter Series 100 & 500 and on the side sort of LJ50X-AK Unit with two tubs says; digital 1 Black Ink Cartridge DECwriter DECcolorwriter Series 100 & 500 DECmultiJET 1500 and on the side sort of LJ50X-AC From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Tue Jan 23 23:39:00 2001 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: <200101240207.SAA26034@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > OK, I just found online and purchased the following books: > > Programming with RT-11 Vol. 1 Program Development > by Clinch, Simon & Stephen Peters > > Programming with RT-11. Vol. 2 Callable System > by Peters, Stephen, et al. > > Working with RT-11 > y Beaumont, David, et al. > > Tailoring RT-11. System Management and Programming Facilitie > by Clinch, Simon, et al. > > Now I'm wondering if there are any other books on RT-11 available (besides > the actual doc sets) and if these books were worth getting? I think that they're really quite good, so good that I've had them checked out of the library for three years now. :-) They were published by Digital Press in 83/84 and cover RT-11 5.0. They're a little on the basic side (especially Working), but I found them shortly after I pulled my first PDPs out of the dumpster and they were an invaluable introduction to the DEC way of doing things. I just did a search in OCLC, the big library union catalog, and it appears that these are the only real books on RT-11, although I did stumble accross some interesting looking theses and tech reports that I might have to track down now. And has anybody ever seen "A tutorial for using the TERAK/RT-11" by Robert L. Smith? -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 24 01:39:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: References: <200101240207.SAA26034@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >I think that they're really quite good, so good that I've had them checked >out of the library for three years now. :-) They were published by >Digital Press in 83/84 and cover RT-11 5.0. They're a little on the basic That's a relief (both that thier good, and that they're covering that new of a version of RT-11)! >I just did a search in OCLC, the big library union catalog, and it appears >that these are the only real books on RT-11, although I did stumble OK, that jives with what I remember from something that was mentioned on the list about three years ago. I was thinking that what I'd heard about was all part of the same set though. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Jan 24 07:37:02 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: FS: IBM/Lexmark 4033-001 TR print server Message-ID: I have one excess IBM/Lexmark model 4033-001 token ring print server to part with for what I paid for it. It's in like new condition, has the power supply and manual. Has it's own unique ID, 16/4 switch and serial/parallel ports. The serial port is a standard 9 pin d-sub and the parallel is a standard 25 pin d-sub. It does not include a token ring whip, you add your own style with 9 pin end to the unit. The 4 I installed on an AS/400 network and they flawlessly installed and I have spoken with others that have used these on System/3x and RS/6000 systems without problems, although they say it's a little more manual due to the older OS. The unit is in great cosmetic shape as well. I had bought 6 of these and used 4 on a projest and had 2 left. One is now spoken for and I have the last one left(the best of all of them I think). I paid $7.50 per unit and that's what I need to get from it plus shipping. Shipping should be minimal as the whole unit w/PSU weighs about 2.5lbs (prob 3 packed). I would prefer that this be shipped only within the US 50 states and APO/FPO addresses to preclude all the time I'd have to invest in international shipping documents. If I don't get this unit spoken for by Monday 1/29 I'll be putting it on eBay. Russ Blakeman Clarkson KY 42726 USA From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Jan 24 08:39:20 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: References: <200101240207.SAA26034@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010124083601.024077a0@pc> At 12:39 AM 1/24/01 -0500, brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu wrote: > And has anybody ever seen "A tutorial for using the >TERAK/RT-11" by Robert L. Smith? Terak? Did someone say Terak? I don't see that on my list at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/terak/docs.html but it may be in the unsorted piles in the basement, uhm, I mean, the Computer Museum. Was it a publication that only circulated at a particular university? I have RT-11 for the Terak, but only DEC docs and perhaps an addendum for the Terakisms. - John From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 24 14:14:07 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm References: Message-ID: <3A6F378F.6476@xs4all.nl> Hello All, For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list'). The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb. Ed P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable. -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 12:28:48 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: KIM-1 paper tape format Message-ID: All this talk of the KIM-1 reminded me that I'd prepared an HTML file of the MOS Technology paper tape format, also used by other 6502 machines (UK101 in particular). Anyway, without further ado, here's the link: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/mosptp.htm Hope this helps anyone who's trying to get data on/off a KIM, or indeed anything that uses this format. Many EPROM programmers will accept it, for instance. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Jan 24 12:42:24 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: NeXT equipment available Message-ID: NeXT wanna-owners: A surplus electronics place, Electronics Plus, located in Kerrville, TX (about 70 miles from me) has contacted me with a surplus of NeXT equipment. They have N4000A monitors, keyboards, and mice - no CPU's, but if you have or contemplate acquiring a headless system, these would (obviously) be useful. They are as-is, and "the dust is free". Contact email address is sales@elecplus.com or phone 830-792-3400 and ask for Cindy. (You are welcome to mention my name if you wish.) I believe she is looking for prices in the $10-20 range for the monitors; I don't know whether she's willing to box and ship, but I can help out with that if needed. Electronics Plus has about 10,000 square feet of space, with a very wide variety of equipment, from military surplus to just about anything else. Cindy specifically mentioned AT&T 3b2 equipment and IBM printers and other systems. I have not been there yet, but plan to soon, and I'll try to take notes/digital snaps on anything I see that looks interesting. - Mark From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 24 13:04:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1297.424T2150T12045347optimus@canit.se> Alex Holden skrev: >On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: >> 'standard' to most people. I've got fed up with explaining to the goons >> in the local PC shops that a standard serial port has 25 pins on a DB25 >You've made the classic mistake of thinking that the kind of person who >works in Tandy or PC World actually cares about the things that they sell. >On the rare occasions that I need to go into a high street shop, I just >keep my head down and try to scare away any assistants who get too close >with a blast of jargon (which sometimes backfires when they misinterpret >what I said to mean "I'm an idiot, please try to sell me an overpriced >PC"). Trying to explain things like the difference between a Winmodem and >a Hayes compatible modem, or active versus passive SCSI termination, is >almost always an exercise in futility. Don't forget the classic "Oh no, you can't do that on platform XXX!" or "What are you going to do with that old junk?". I usually just try to keep a low profile and give out as little information as possible when buying something from mainstream shops. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. I use it occasionally... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 23 22:24:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <200101230256.SAA10016@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <593.424T2400T3245853optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> > Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have >> >never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I >> >like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the >> >high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. >> >> Yes, and to add insult to injury, it is owned by Microsoft! >Eh? How do you figure? This was some years ago, but at least it said so back then in some NewDeal Office FAQ. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. --- Robert Musil From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 24 12:49:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" Message-ID: <341.424T500T11893969optimus@canit.se> I've recently encountered some odd DEC contraptions, looking like baby SCSI terminators. They are plastic shells with a DB15 connector and a green LED at the end. I found these plugged into the back of a DECserver 200, but what is their purpose? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 23 22:25:58 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1130.424T2900T3256453optimus@canit.se> r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: >On 23 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Jeff Hellige skrev: >> >> > Is PC/GEOS still available? I have GEOS for my C-64 but have >> >never tried the x86 version. For early x86 GUI's, I liked GEM. I >> >like it on the Atari-ST as well, as long as it's running in the >> >high-res mode on a SM-124. Low-res CGA-style doesn't do it justice. >> >> Yes, and to add insult to injury, it is owned by Microsoft! >> The Nokia N9000 (Communicator) series also runs GEOS on its 486 processor. >What? GEOS was never owned by Microsoft. GEM belonged to Digital Research >and I would be shocked to hear they were bought by Microsoft. GEOS and GEM are not the same. GEOS was developed by Berkeley Softworks, wasn't it? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. - Margo! Vad har h?nt. Du ser ju alldeles f?rst?rd ut. - Dom d?dade mig n?stan f?r att jag misslyckades. - Vilka ?r dom egentligen? - Jag vet inte vad dom heter. Men mannen som jagar dig heter Flinch, och han ?r en sadist. ... - Gud vad jag ?r avundsjuk. Varf?r f?r jag aldrig se n?t s?dant. Lupin III den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From red at bears.org Wed Jan 24 13:31:51 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <1130.424T2900T3256453optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 24 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >What? GEOS was never owned by Microsoft. GEM belonged to Digital Research > >and I would be shocked to hear they were bought by Microsoft. > > GEOS and GEM are not the same. GEOS was developed by Berkeley Softworks, > wasn't it? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they were. GEOS was developed by Berkeley Softworks, and later became known as Geoworks, Inc. The company still exists, developing software for 'smart phones' based on GEOS 3.0. What was known as "Geoworks Ensemble" was sold in its entirety to NewDeal, Inc. who curently support and sell the latest iteration of same. I believe their product is called "NewDeal Office" and a free trial is available from this URL: http://wwwnd.newdealinc.com/products/products_main.asp?page_name=download You mentioned GEOS and GEM, and in the same breath about something being owned by Microsoft, and I couldn't figure out what you were referring to. If Microsoft bought DRI, I never heard about it. They certainly never bought Geoworks, Inc. ok r. From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Jan 24 13:39:44 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" In-Reply-To: <341.424T500T11893969optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000a01c0863d$67d25ae0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Ethernet signal confidence indicators, I believe, but I would like to know more too. Next? John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 24 13:58:03 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" In-Reply-To: <000a01c0863d$67d25ae0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <341.424T500T11893969optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Ethernet signal confidence indicators, I believe, >but I would like to know more too. Next? > >John A. Ethernet *terminators*. As far as I can remember any VAXen I've played with that have built in ethernet want to either be plugged into a ethernet network or have one of these attached, otherwise they complain (I want to say they won't even boot, but it's been awhile, all my stuff is always plugged into the network). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 24 14:03:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" In-Reply-To: <341.424T500T11893969optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 24, 1 07:49:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 965 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010124/1fce635e/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Jan 24 14:21:57 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: NeXT equipment available In-Reply-To: "from Mark Tapley at Jan 24, 2001 12:42:24 pm" Message-ID: <200101242021.OAA20470@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Looks like they have a Kennedy 9600 magnetic tape drive. A nice looking reel to reel tape drive, if its the one I'm thinking of. -Lawrence LeMay > NeXT wanna-owners: > A surplus electronics place, Electronics Plus, located in > Kerrville, TX (about 70 miles from me) has contacted me with a surplus of > NeXT equipment. They have N4000A monitors, keyboards, and mice - no CPU's, > but if you have or contemplate acquiring a headless system, these would > (obviously) be useful. They are as-is, and "the dust is free". > Contact email address is > > sales@elecplus.com > > or phone 830-792-3400 and ask for Cindy. (You are welcome to mention my > name if you wish.) I believe she is looking for prices in the $10-20 range > for the monitors; I don't know whether she's willing to box and ship, but I > can help out with that if needed. > Electronics Plus has about 10,000 square feet of space, with a very > wide variety of equipment, from military surplus to just about anything > else. Cindy specifically mentioned AT&T 3b2 equipment and IBM printers and > other systems. > I have not been there yet, but plan to soon, and I'll try to take > notes/digital snaps on anything I see that looks interesting. > - Mark > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Jan 24 14:11:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: <1297.424T2150T12045347optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 24, 1 08:04:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2128 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010124/587da5a4/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 24 14:30:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Ethernet signal confidence indicators, I believe, > >but I would like to know more too. Next? > > Ethernet *terminators*. As far as I can remember any VAXen I've played > with that have built in ethernet want to either be plugged into a ethernet > network or have one of these attached, otherwise they complain (I want to > say they won't even boot, but it's been awhile, all my stuff is always > plugged into the network). At least our NetBSD MicroVAX IIGP does boot without being plugged into the network. Could be a VMS thing, though. From mgarron at webination.com Wed Jan 24 14:34:16 2001 From: mgarron at webination.com (Mark Garron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: OT - Declaser 1152 Message-ID: <3A6F3C47.8182499A@webination.com> Did you manage to get a solution to this problem? Regards, Mark Garron declaser 1152 owner. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 24 14:34:31 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Jan 24, 1 02:31:51 pm" Message-ID: <200101242034.MAA13128@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > You mentioned GEOS and GEM, and in the same breath about something being > owned by Microsoft, and I couldn't figure out what you were referring to. > If Microsoft bought DRI, I never heard about it. They certainly never > bought Geoworks, Inc. I know CP/M is owned by Caldera, so I would bet they own GEM as well, and possibly DR-DOS. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 24 14:34:14 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DOS version of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator? Message-ID: I'm in need of a DOS version of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator as I've a old 486/25 handheld I want to use to run RT-11 on an upcoming vacation. I know some people have got copies of this compiled for DOS. Does anyone on this list have a copy I could get? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 24 14:31:20 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <459.424T1000T12914941optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >>I think that they're really quite good, so good that I've had them checked >>out of the library for three years now. :-) They were published by >>Digital Press in 83/84 and cover RT-11 5.0. They're a little on the basic >That's a relief (both that thier good, and that they're covering that new >of a version of RT-11)! Er, what is RT11? Any relation to TOPS-11? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computer hackers do it all night long. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jan 24 14:48:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: HP 9825 mailing list Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010124154823.401f1d1c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Dave Meier has started a mailing list for the HP 9825 calculator. If you're interested contact him at "Meier, Dave" . Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jan 24 14:49:37 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3A6F378F.6476@xs4all.nl> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010124154937.401f5a18@mailhost.intellistar.net> Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy. Joe At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote: >Hello All, > >For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into >a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list'). >The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb. > >Ed > >P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable. >-- >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >zakkenvullers >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Jan 24 15:06:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Intel ???? rescued, weekend finds In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010122085241.029fe310@208.226.86.10> References: <3.0.1.16.20010122121946.4fc71960@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010124160619.401f2fea@mailhost.intellistar.net> Chuck, Thanks for the info. I have a number of Intel catalogs and other docs but I've never seen or heard of this box. Do you have any docs on this thing? Does this work any better than the ICE devices that connect to the MDS systems like the 220 series? I *think* I know where there's a big pile of other pods and such for it. I found an Intel 188 (80188?) pod at the same place but I haven't checked to see if it fits this unit. Which Tektronix DAS units were you using? I have one DAS 9200 and several 9100s. Joe At 08:57 AM 1/22/01 -0800, Chuck wrote: > >> I went out to a scrap place yesterday and found a large white Intel box >>sitting out in the dirt. It looks like some kind of emulator. It's *about* >>12" tall, 24 deep and 16 wide. There's no marking on the front except >>"Intel" on the top RH corner. > >This is "The ICEBox" an in-circuit emulator for Intel processors. It is a >great way to bring up new designs and defeat copy protection schemes :-) >There is a special bond out version of the 286 in the pod and when plugged >into a circuit that would take a 286 it could give you a complete readout, >both internal to the processor and external about what was going on. It can >also run at "full" speed. (ususally there was an 8 or a 10 marked somewhere >on the bod for 8Mhz and 10Mhz parts.) There were 8086, 80186, and 80286 >pods for it, but I don't know if it could ever handle the 386. It was "new" >in the mid 80's (like 1985 when I was at Intel) and it combined with a >Tektronix DAS9000 series was the weapon of choice for tracking down chip >design bugs. Compaq used one in the design of the DeskPro 286 (and >complained alot to intel because at the time the bond-out versions of the >286 didn't come out at the same time as the new steppings of the chip. >(separate, by hand, assembly process) > >--Chuck > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 24 15:24:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: <459.424T1000T12914941optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 24, 2001 09:31:20 PM Message-ID: <200101242124.NAA20107@shell1.aracnet.com> > Er, what is RT11? Any relation to TOPS-11? What's TOPS-11? I'm guessing you mean TOPS-10 or TOPS-20. RT-11 is one of the main OS's still being used on the PDP-11, along with RSX-11M, RSX-11M+ and from what I've seen to a decidedly lesser extent RSTS/E. RT-11 is a Real Time Operating System, designed primarily as a single user OS. Think MS-DOS (not DOS which seriously predates MS-DOS and ran on the PDP-11) without directories[1], only 6.3 filenames, and with a 30MB partition limit. While that description isn't very complementary it's a totally kick a** OS, and a lot of fun. There are extensions that make it capable of handling multiple users. If you've got a UNIX machine, you can take RT-11 for a spin using Bob Supnik's emulator (I'm looking for a MS-DOS executable of the emulator). For the emulator and emulator disk images see: http://www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/ or for older versions of the emulator try: ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ Zane [1] While it doesn't have directories you can simulate them using Logical Disks (a disk image). From sean at techcare.com Wed Jan 24 15:30:36 2001 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" References: Message-ID: <023c01c0864c$e448d9f0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 3:30 PM Subject: RE: DEC DB15 "terminators" > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >Ethernet signal confidence indicators, I believe, > > >but I would like to know more too. Next? > > > > Ethernet *terminators*. As far as I can remember any VAXen I've played > > with that have built in ethernet want to either be plugged into a ethernet > > network or have one of these attached, otherwise they complain (I want to > > say they won't even boot, but it's been awhile, all my stuff is always > > plugged into the network). > > At least our NetBSD MicroVAX IIGP does boot without being plugged into the > network. Could be a VMS thing, though. > > AFAIK, they boot fine, but you'll get the "?? 1" error on boot and the system will drop the the ROM monitor.. it'll run, but you won't be able to autoboot. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 24 15:39:55 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector References: Message-ID: <001301c0864e$3145c140$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I went into Radio Shack to get a soldering iron tip a few weeks ago, only to find that they've finally started putting industry standard part numbers on their blister-packed stuff. What a surprise to find not 239-???? but a package that actually reflected the part number we're used to, e.g. 74LS367 and such. Maybe that will take the pressure to learn what it is they're selling off the help. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 1:11 PM Subject: Re: DD50 SCSI connector > > Don't forget the classic "Oh no, you can't do that on platform XXX!" or "What > > are you going to do with that old junk?". > > Thanks for reminding me -- NOT! :-) > > Many years ago (this actually comes in the 'classic' timeframe), I > obtained a Sanders 12/7 printer. For those who don't know this piece of > engineering, it's a 7 pin dot matrix printer with enough mechanical > precision that it's worth doing 8 passes of the printhead for some fonts. > It was a text-only device (no downloadable fonts, no bitmap ability), > but it was a darn good text printer -- as well as having some letter > quality fonts, it would justify a paragraph of text internally, and print > it with both margins straight, and so on (of course the fonts were all > proportionally spaced...) > > This machine came in several versions, but the one I have has an RS232 > interface on it. > > I wanted to drive it from my main computer at the time, which was a > TRS-80 Model 1. Fortunaately, unlike Sellam, I do have an RS232 > interface. So all I needed was a null-modem cable. > > I foolishly went into a computer shop to attempt to buy such a cable. I > took a long the manuals for the printer and the Model 1, just so I could > be sure what I wanted... > > The shop told me that I couldn't use that printer with that computer, and > then attempted to sell me a printer. Needless to say I didn't buy said > printer, I went to the electronics shop in the same city and bought a > couple of DB25 plugs and a length of cable. Didn't take long to solder up > the right cable -- and yes, the Model 1 can print on a Sanders 12/7. I > used it for word processing until I managed to get the later version, a > Sanders 700. That has the same printhead, and same nice features, but > it's based on a Diablo 630 chassis and is somewhat easier to feed paper > in. That, in turn, was only retired when I got a laserprinter... > > > > > > I usually just try to keep a low profile and give out as little information as > > possible when buying something from mainstream shops. > > Ditto. Which is why I try to buy things by part number only. Pity some > shops make it difficult for me to do that.... > > -tony > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Jan 24 15:40:45 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: <459.424T1000T12914941optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 24, 2001 09:31:20 pm" Message-ID: <200101242140.f0OLej120656@bg-tc-ppp802.monmouth.com> > Zane H. Healy skrev: > > >>I think that they're really quite good, so good that I've had them checked > >>out of the library for three years now. :-) They were published by > >>Digital Press in 83/84 and cover RT-11 5.0. They're a little on the basic > > >That's a relief (both that thier good, and that they're covering that new > >of a version of RT-11)! > > Er, what is RT11? Any relation to TOPS-11? RT11 was the DEC single user multitasking Real-Time OS. It ran with or without memory management hardware in minimal machines. (What's minimal -- I believe 12-16K Words of memory -- 24-32K Bytes!) As far as I know there was no TOPS-11, just TOPS-10 and TOPS-20. The closest thing to TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 on a PDP11 was probably RSTS/E -- or IAS-11... Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Jan 24 16:02:46 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Radio Shack & Scientific American In-Reply-To: <023c01c0864c$e448d9f0$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <000c01c08651$9a1f0110$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Since somebody mentioned Radio Shack and we all share an interest in same I thought I'd bring up that the New York Times reported (sorry, yak) that the "Amateur Scientist" in Scientific American magazine is aparently getting dropped after ?50 years?. An obvious bummer for the >25% of us that were raised on it. The fellow that is it's current editor got the McArthur 'genius' grant of $300K so he won't suffer for a while. He was raised on Radio Shack as well... John A. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 24 16:00:41 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" In-Reply-To: <023c01c0864c$e448d9f0$0c00000a@techcare.com> from "Sean Caron" at Jan 24, 2001 04:30:36 PM Message-ID: <200101242200.OAA21318@shell1.aracnet.com> > AFAIK, they boot fine, but you'll get the "?? 1" error on boot and the > system will > drop the the ROM monitor.. it'll run, but you won't be able to autoboot. OK, I'm guessing this is what I was remembering. Zane From knezjr at mediaone.net Wed Jan 24 16:48:38 2001 From: knezjr at mediaone.net (Matt Knezevich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Rare Tandy 1400??? Message-ID: <3A6F5BC5.661CBF60@mediaone.net> Hey Joe, I have one of those tandy 1400 Lt. just lying around my pad. If you want to talk about it e-mail me. Matt From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Jan 24 17:33:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <001801c0865f$daf94c00$df779a8d@ajp166> From: Ethan Dicks > >--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: >>... I need a quick way to hook an 8" floppy up to a running computer to read >> it... >> >> Anyone know if I can plug an RX01 drive & QBus controller into a uVAX II? > >I think you need an RXV21 and an RX02. > >-ethan You can install either RX01 or RX01 with their respective controllers. I forget if there is device support beyond V4.7 but usually there are drivers (if they are there they may be officially unsupported). Allison > >===== >Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > >The original webpage address is still going away. The >permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > >See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From donm at cts.com Wed Jan 24 17:56:07 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <200101242034.MAA13128@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > You mentioned GEOS and GEM, and in the same breath about something being > > owned by Microsoft, and I couldn't figure out what you were referring to. > > If Microsoft bought DRI, I never heard about it. They certainly never > > bought Geoworks, Inc. > > I know CP/M is owned by Caldera, so I would bet they own GEM as well, and > possibly DR-DOS. I was advised recently that Caldera had released GEM to GNU license. Also that there are several GEM oriented sites around now. - don > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- > From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Wed Jan 24 19:29:03 2001 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010124083601.024077a0@pc> Message-ID: <116787.3189356943@[172.18.40.2]> --On Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:39 AM -0600 John Foust wrote: > At 12:39 AM 1/24/01 -0500, brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu wrote: >> And has anybody ever seen "A tutorial for using the >> TERAK/RT-11" by Robert L. Smith? > > Terak? Did someone say Terak? I don't see that on my > list at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/terak/docs.html > but it may be in the unsorted piles in the basement, > uhm, I mean, the Computer Museum. Was it a publication > that only circulated at a particular university? > I have RT-11 for the Terak, but only DEC docs and > perhaps an addendum for the Terakisms. It was published by Kendall/Hunt, a textbook publisher. Here's a catalog record for it: Personal Author: Smith, Robert L. Title: A tutorial for using the TERAK/RT-11 / Robert L. Smith. Edition: Prelim. ed. Publication info: Dubuque, Iowa : Kendall/Hunt, c1982. Physical descrip: 128 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. Subject: RT-11 (Computer operating system) Subject: TERAK (Computer)--Programming. I'm going to go ahead and request it through interlibrary loan. I'll let folks know if I actually get copy. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From optimus at canit.se Wed Jan 24 19:28:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Windes ME In-Reply-To: <200101242034.MAA13128@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <909.425T450T1484143optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> You mentioned GEOS and GEM, and in the same breath about something being >> owned by Microsoft, and I couldn't figure out what you were referring to. >> If Microsoft bought DRI, I never heard about it. They certainly never >> bought Geoworks, Inc. >I know CP/M is owned by Caldera, so I would bet they own GEM as well, and >possibly DR-DOS. Of course, GEM is now open source, and people are working on modernising it and removing all the crippling it was subjected to due to Apple suits. Mind you, it still looks rather sad compared to Atari GEMs, which were unaffected by said suits. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Se pensate che alcune sigle dei cartoni in Italia siano bruttine, ascoltatevi quella di Kenshiro in francese ("Ken le survivant")... Non saprei se sia pi? trash questa o quella di Mazinga Z in Francese... Nicola Solati om den franska signaturen till Hokut? no Ken From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Jan 24 20:00:11 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: <20010124042838.28356.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks! That is exactly the info I needed... Do you know if a M8061 (RL01/RL02 controller w/22 bit addressing) will work in a uVAX II? I have a number of RL02s that I want to archive, but I don't want to load them into an unknown drive hooked to a system of unknown status running software I don't know... If I can test the drives out using my uVAX, and archive the software, I can create a new disk pack and use it it test the PDP-11/23+... Make since nes-paw? (How DO you spell nes-paw?) Same plan will be applied with the 8" floppies :) Thanks, clint On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > >... I need a quick way to hook an 8" floppy up to a running computer to read > > it... > > > > Anyone know if I can plug an RX01 drive & QBus controller into a uVAX II? > > I think you need an RXV21 and an RX02. > > -ethan > From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Jan 24 20:07:47 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Richard W. Schauer wrote: > > On Tue, 23 Jan 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > refrigerator dolly and human power, except the RP06 and the 780 where we > > > used a come-along and a lifting frame I made. Heavy! > > > > Cool... I'm planning on moving my '780 into the basement with the same > > concept... > > Actually, it didn't work all that well. If I had to do it all over again, > I'd seriously think about taking the machine to bits. Of course, if you > have something you can fasten the come-along to, it's easier. My lifting > frame was intended to distribute the lifting force laterally on the > bottoms of the walls of the building. The other problem is that there > isn't a good place to pull on the 780; I bent the frame rails somewhat on > the right side. Also it is top-heavy- once when we had to back up a bit > it wanted to flip itself over. It took some persuasion to keep it > sliding. > Hmmm... I have a return air duct in line with staircase... The plan is (was?) to chain a pulley to the floor joist inside the duct and run the cable from the come-along through it and to a nylon tow strap around the base of the VAX... I'll have to check where the center of gravity is on the machine at the angle of the stairs, I might need to raise the strap higher on the side of the machine (thus risking the bends)... > > I have at least one (in the machine), but it may be bad... I bought one > > from ebay, but again, it may be bad... I need a quick way to hook an > > 8" floppy up to a running computer to read it... > > Ebay is the last place I would have thought of, but I guess it figures, > everything else is sold there. > This is the only time I've seen them listed, they are backup copies of the console and a couple diagnostic disks... > > My plan is to just set up a new 25V unregulated supply once I figure > > out how much current it needs to supply... > > You could probably do one of two easy things: 1. Unhook two phases and > only run off one. I don't know what the current draw is, but the > transformer may be able to handle it. It goes to a 6-diode bridge > rectifier anyway. 2. (Temporary) Skip the power controller altogether. > I don't think a single phase will rectify to anywhere near 25V dc... Perhaps two phase (with the third left open) will work... Another thought I had was to use a power controller from another machine like a PDP-11... I'll have to check the current carrying capabilities of them though... I've got four or five of the things that someone dumped in my office one day ("Well, they say DEC on them, and you collect DEC stuff") ("DEC COMPUTERS, stupid" under my breath)... > Richard Schauer > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Jan 24 20:35:01 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Jan 24, 2001 07:00:11 PM Message-ID: <200101250235.SAA31717@shell1.aracnet.com> > That is exactly the info I needed... Do you know if a M8061 (RL01/RL02 > controller w/22 bit addressing) will work in a uVAX II? Yes, I've got one in my MicroVAX III. > I have a number of RL02s that I want to archive, but I don't want to > load them into an unknown drive hooked to a system of unknown status > running software I don't know... If I can test the drives out using > my uVAX, and archive the software, I can create a new disk pack and > use it it test the PDP-11/23+... Make since nes-paw? (How DO you spell > nes-paw?) Same plan will be applied with the 8" floppies :) That's the whole purpose of the MicroVAX III I've got, though as of about 3 months ago it's buried in the back of one of my Storage Units. I never got around to attaching a RX02 to it, but I don't really have anything on 8" floppies anyway. Still one of these eons I hope to get my exteranal RX02's hooked up to my MutantPDP-11/73. Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Jan 24 20:55:53 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: vax go bye-bye Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010124184828.02772800@208.226.86.10> Sigh, just thought I would relate a tail of woe, not sure what happened but if someone has something to try I'm open to it. I've got a DEC VAX 4000/60 that I've been running VMS on lately. I shut it down and took it apart to take pictures of it for the "House of VAX" pages. I carefully re-assembled it and when I turned it on again it wasn't working. The failure mode was "all lights on" which on the VAX generally means that it didn't get through the basic system integrity tests. Yikes! I turned if off, carefully re-checked my assembly and verified everything was correct. Tried re-seating a few of the connected bits (lights & switches, frame buffer, etc) and nada, zip, same dead machine. One person suggested that the PSU might be misaligned, I verified that this was not the case. I verified that the PSU voltages are all correct, and replaced the PSU to be sure that I had a good power supply. Then I tested the old one and it works fine (well I can draw a couple of amps out of all the voltages and they stay solid). Then I took the memory and verified in another vax that it was still ok. It was. Then verified the frame buffer and scsi drives. Everything still works, just the mainboard refuses to do anything. Does anyone have the pinout on the VAX chips on the board? I could check for clock I suppose and see if the oscillator can took a dump, but beyond that I'm stuck. Since nothing else seemed to die I can't imagine what fault would cause these symptoms. I even reset the NVRAM in an effort to verify that it hadn't been corrupted somehow. Very strange, any clues or other avenues to explore would be appreciated. --Chuck From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Jan 24 21:35:08 2001 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Mailing List - off topic In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010124184828.02772800@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010124223212.00adbcd0@popmail.voicenet.com> How do I start a mailing list. I live in a development and would like to start a mailing list so residents can communicate about events, contractors, handymen etc. How do I go about setting up a list like this? You can answer me off list if you wish at either of the following addresses: gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From william.webb at juno.com Thu Jan 25 00:20:28 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W Webb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: What you're looking for (4000/200 Message-ID: <20010124.223246.226.1.william.webb@juno.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:38:52 -0800 From: joseph.gaspard@gensiasicor.com Subject: VAX 4000/200 I am actively looking for a working DEC VAX 4000/200 with Open VMS, drives, SCSI capable and in good repair. It will be used to support an existing VAX in our system. If anyone has one or can tell me where to find one, I would appreciate it very much. Joseph Gaspard How do you mean "support"? Is this going to be "up on blocks" or are you going to cluster or just use as a contingency system? Try Island Computers ask for David Turner dbturner@islandco.com 877-636-4332 Tell him I sent you. WWWebb ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From william.webb at juno.com Thu Jan 25 00:14:26 2001 From: william.webb at juno.com (William W Webb) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <20010124.223245.226.0.william.webb@juno.com> I just recently acquired a whole bunch of stuff out of a company's basement, including a VAX-11/780, VAX-11/750, 4 RA81's, a TU80, a pdp-11/44, 4 RL02's, an RP06, a TS11, and spare parts and printsets galore. (Yes, John Foust, the little pdp-11/44 in Milwaukee led to all that.) All the equipment was brought up a flight of carpeted stairs by a refrigerator dolly and human power, except the RP06 and the 780 where we used a come-along and a lifting frame I made. Heavy! Anyway, the 780 needs a floppy to boot. The previous owner says he doesn't have it, and I can't find it (although I'm not done searching yet). Is this the sort of thing that is generically available, on the WWW for instance, or is it something that is built up specifically for the mix of options I have in the machine? Incidentally, does anyone here that has a 780 (I know there are several in the group) run theirs? It takes 3 phase power, but there are no loads connected phase-to-phase, only phase-to-neutral (although there is a small 3-phase transformer in the power controller, it could probably be wired to only use one phase or else bypassed completely) so it can run entirely on 110 volts, at about 60-70 amps continuous draw. I was thinking of using split-phase 220, putting 2 phases on one hot and 1 on the other, then putting the Unibus cabinet and disk and tape drives on the hot with only 1 phase on it. I figure this would about balance the draw at 40 amps, 220 volts, which isn't too unreasonable. Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com Richard, you *really* should post this on comp.os.vms. These guys are before my time, as I didn't start doing VMS until 1990. Also, see how far back the Encompass (formerly DECUS) hobbyist program goes. You might get free licenses. WWWebb ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Jan 24 23:21:38 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:22 2005 Subject: Mailing List - off topic In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010124223212.00adbcd0@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: Try freelists.org - a list I use just switched to it and it seems pretty straightforward and easy to use. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gene Ehrich Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 9:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Mailing List - off topic How do I start a mailing list. I live in a development and would like to start a mailing list so residents can communicate about events, contractors, handymen etc. How do I go about setting up a list like this? You can answer me off list if you wish at either of the following addresses: gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From edick at idcomm.com Wed Jan 24 23:26:39 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: DEC DB15 "terminators" References: <023c01c0864c$e448d9f0$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <004501c0868f$64ea5ce0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> They're DA-15's! The 'B' means the shell size of the DB25. If it's a DB15, it's that shell with 15 pins in it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Caron" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 2:30 PM Subject: Re: DEC DB15 "terminators" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Iggy Drougge" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 3:30 PM > Subject: RE: DEC DB15 "terminators" > > > > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > > >Ethernet signal confidence indicators, I believe, > > > >but I would like to know more too. Next? > > > > > > Ethernet *terminators*. As far as I can remember any VAXen I've played > > > with that have built in ethernet want to either be plugged into a > ethernet > > > network or have one of these attached, otherwise they complain (I want > to > > > say they won't even boot, but it's been awhile, all my stuff is always > > > plugged into the network). > > > > At least our NetBSD MicroVAX IIGP does boot without being plugged into the > > network. Could be a VMS thing, though. > > > > > > AFAIK, they boot fine, but you'll get the "?? 1" error on boot and the > system will > drop the the ROM monitor.. it'll run, but you won't be able to autoboot. > > --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 23:41:59 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <20010125054159.34047.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > ...Make since nes-paw? (How DO you spell nes-paw?) AFAIK, "n'est pas". -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 23:46:19 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <20010125054619.66538.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > Thanks! > > That is exactly the info I needed... Do you know if a M8061 (RL01/RL02 > controller w/22 bit addressing) will work in a uVAX II? I have used an RLV12 in a uVAX-II (in a BA-23 upgraded by DEC from uVAX-I to uVAX-II, just for painful accuracy). It's one of my favorite ways of migrating smallish amounts of data between DEC boxes not on the same wires (site-to-site moves), at least it was back in the days of 1200 baud dial-up. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a VW Beetle with a backseat full of 10Mb removable cartridges. > I have a number of RL02s that I want to archive, but I don't want to > load them into an unknown drive hooked to a system of unknown status > running software I don't know... If I can test the drives out using > my uVAX, and archive the software, I can create a new disk pack and > use it it test the PDP-11/23+... Good plan. Eventually, I plan to do something similar. My problem at the moment is a lack of happy RD54s in my BA123. I'm about to stick a KDA-50 in that puppy and fire up my MBA ESDI<->SDI box that happens to have a couple of 1.2Gb 5.25" disks in it. If that doesn't do it, there's an RA-81 in the same rack as the MBA box, but I'd rather not heat my house with it. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 25 05:04:14 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Just a FYI you don't see these come up very often, Dash30fx, 50 mhz hot rod >of a IIfx mac. $50 s&h put me off bidding. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208740462 Bid is up to $250 with 2 days to go, is this a horse race or what? Kind of makes me wonder what my "personal" buy/sell price might be. I know I have at least a $50 itch for one, $100 much less so, but if I found one what would it take to pry it away? I'm not sure I would be willing to sell if I had a nice condition unit for even $250. BTW mac.com is just the free email account everybody gets with an imac or new mac. Kind of like a yahoo email account (no phone access, just storage), but with some web space to show how creative and different thinking you now are. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Jan 25 07:38:42 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Long-Planned Apollo Rescue Finally Goes Down Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DA0@TEGNTSERVER> I can happily report that a rescue I'd been trying to coordinate since July finally took place. I'd been hanging out in the USENET newsgroup comp.sys.apollo for a while, hoping to find someone who would be willing to donate some Apollo hardware for my collection. Apollo was formed by people from Prime Computer, and the architecture of their operating system (Domain OS/Aegis) grew out of issues they found that they couldn't achieve with PRIMOS (notably, a virtual memory that can be shared across the network). So, it came to pass that a software engineer from Cummins Engine (maker of the diesel engines used in Dodge Ram trucks) contacted me. He was helping to decommission the Apollos that Cummins had been using. Way back in July, he set aside the following items, which I was to go and pick up. However, at the time, my car was facing imminent breakdown (which finally occurred in October), so we went back and forth looking for a way to make the transfer. Finally, he decided (after being reallocated after a reduction in force) to bail and head to Kalifornia. Befre leaving, he decided he'd just bring the systems from Columbus (Indiana) down hre to Clarksville to me! Not just a rescue, but I got them to bring the systems to me! Anyway, here's a thumbnail list of what I got: one DN2500 workstation two HP425 workstations one Apollo 19 inch monochrome monitor one HP 19 inch monochrome monitor three apollo keyboards with Logitech mice an external shoebox hard drive for the DN2500 that contains the latest version of DomainOS, 10.4 and a virgin registry an external shoebox containing an Exabyte 8mm drive (probably an 8200) two apollo token ring cards, four interface boxes, and four boxes that let you switch nodes in and out of the ringnet All in very clean shape! The HP 425s each contain two hard drives, and have Ethernet built-in (thinnet & AUI). The DN2500 has a single ISA slot which currently contains an Ethernet card. I'll be saving the token ring hardware and will play with it, but will likely use the Ethernet on a regular basis. The only glaring ommission: No paper documentation. The newsgroup has a very well-developed FAQ, and there are many resources on the web for Apollos. Th first thing I'll need to do is to back up the DN2500's shoebox drive, so that I can put it back in the virgin state if need be. Personally, I'm grateful that the engineer took the time to put a fresh OS on the system; I know that some of you like rescueing systems taken directly out of service, so that ther actual day-to- day use can be documented and preserved. However, while I think that's cool, I think I prefer hat I've got. The engineer had intended to help me set up the systems and get them running, but I really don't have room to do that right now, nor do I have the time. These systems almost don't qualify (the 425's were made in '93), but it's a dead architecture, so anything so consigned should probably be exempt from the 10-year rule. Well, that's all for now; I've had no prior experience with the Apollos, just considered them kindred to the Primes, so I was someday going to have to have them. Regards, -doug quebbeman From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 25 07:52:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: DD50 SCSI connector In-Reply-To: References: <1297.424T2150T12045347optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010125075113.03069e10@pc> At 08:11 PM 1/24/01 +0000, you wrote: >Many years ago (this actually comes in the 'classic' timeframe), I >obtained a Sanders 12/7 printer. For those who don't know this piece of >engineering, it's a 7 pin dot matrix printer with enough mechanical >precision that it's worth doing 8 passes of the printhead for some fonts. In the story of Terak's demise, they were bought by Calcomp, which at the time (in the mid-late 80s) was owned by Sanders. Later, Sanders was sold to Lockheed. - John From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 09:38:03 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx References: Message-ID: I've seen these things around, a local advertising firm had stacks of them they were throwing away. These are basically Macintosh IIfx's clock chipped from 40MHz to 50MHz, in a gigantic metal tower case with power and frame key locks. An interesting machine, but remember before buying... 1 - The IIfx uses wacko 64-Bit (I think) SIMMs that aren't compatable with anything except a particular LaserWriter. These are VERY hard to find and expensive. 2 - The case weighs a TON. I'm not kidding, think double width MicroVAX II tower case here, but with thicker sheet metal. Shipping will be very expensive. 3 - It's still a 68030 processor. A slow Quadra (68040) can give it a run for it's money. From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 6:04 AM Subject: RE: eBay Dash30fx > >Just a FYI you don't see these come up very often, Dash30fx, 50 mhz hot rod > >of a IIfx mac. $50 s&h put me off bidding. > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1208740462 > > Bid is up to $250 with 2 days to go, is this a horse race or what? > > Kind of makes me wonder what my "personal" buy/sell price might be. I know > I have at least a $50 itch for one, $100 much less so, but if I found one > what would it take to pry it away? I'm not sure I would be willing to sell > if I had a nice condition unit for even $250. > > BTW mac.com is just the free email account everybody gets with an imac or > new mac. Kind of like a yahoo email account (no phone access, just > storage), but with some web space to show how creative and different > thinking you now are. > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 25 10:52:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I've seen these things around, a local advertising firm had stacks of them >they were throwing away. These are basically Macintosh IIfx's clock chipped >from 40MHz to 50MHz, in a gigantic metal tower case with power and frame key >locks. An interesting machine, but remember before buying... > >1 - The IIfx uses wacko 64-Bit (I think) SIMMs that aren't compatable with >anything except a particular LaserWriter. These are VERY hard to find and >expensive. >2 - The case weighs a TON. I'm not kidding, think double width MicroVAX II >tower case here, but with thicker sheet metal. Shipping will be very >expensive. >3 - It's still a 68030 processor. A slow Quadra (68040) can give it a run >for it's money. In a way its sad, but the once "wicked fast" IIfx now is regularly scrapped and the boards, memory, etc. sell fairly cheaply. I think I have about a dozen working IIfx and a fair stash of memory (sheesh, NEVER in my life did I think I would have this much memory (all sorts, but some IIfx), a pile about 2 feet across on my dining room table). The other stuff just makes me want one or two even more, just not to ship ;). From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Jan 25 03:59:37 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: DOS version of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:34:14 PST." Message-ID: <200101250959.JAA09460@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Zane H. Healy" said: > I'm in need of a DOS version of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator as I've a old > 486/25 handheld I want to use to run RT-11 on an upcoming vacation. I know > some people have got copies of this compiled for DOS. Does anyone on this > list have a copy I could get? How does this compare with John Wilson's Ersatz-11 which I'm using the free version of? -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From quapla at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 25 14:32:21 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm References: <3.0.1.16.20010124154937.401f5a18@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3A708D55.2852@xs4all.nl> Hi, If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send it. Regards, Ed Joe wrote: > > Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy. > > Joe > > At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote: > >Hello All, > > > >For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into > >a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list'). > >The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb. > > > >Ed > > > >P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable. > >-- > >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: > >zakkenvullers > >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | > >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! > > -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 25 12:31:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: vax go bye-bye In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010124184828.02772800@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Jan 24, 1 06:55:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010125/5ea1c317/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Thu Jan 25 14:40:11 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: <20010125054619.66538.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > > > Thanks! > > > > That is exactly the info I needed... Do you know if a M8061 (RL01/RL02 > > controller w/22 bit addressing) will work in a uVAX II? > > I have used an RLV12 in a uVAX-II (in a BA-23 upgraded by DEC from uVAX-I > to uVAX-II, just for painful accuracy). It's one of my favorite ways of > migrating smallish amounts of data between DEC boxes not on the same > wires (site-to-site moves), at least it was back in the days of 1200 baud > dial-up. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a VW Beetle with a backseat > full of 10Mb removable cartridges. Aha! Beetle-Net - the prior century's quantum improvement on Sneaker-Net. > > I have a number of RL02s that I want to archive, but I don't want to > > load them into an unknown drive hooked to a system of unknown status > > running software I don't know... If I can test the drives out using > > my uVAX, and archive the software, I can create a new disk pack and > > use it it test the PDP-11/23+... > > Good plan. Eventually, I plan to do something similar. My problem > at the moment is a lack of happy RD54s in my BA123. I'm about to > stick a KDA-50 in that puppy and fire up my MBA ESDI<->SDI box that > happens to have a couple of 1.2Gb 5.25" disks in it. If that doesn't > do it, there's an RA-81 in the same rack as the MBA box, but I'd rather > not heat my house with it. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Jan 25 15:44:56 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Beetle-Net In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Jan 25, 2001 12:40:11 pm" Message-ID: <200101252144.f0PLiun23501@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> > > I have used an RLV12 in a uVAX-II (in a BA-23 upgraded by DEC from uVAX-I > > to uVAX-II, just for painful accuracy). It's one of my favorite ways of > > migrating smallish amounts of data between DEC boxes not on the same > > wires (site-to-site moves), at least it was back in the days of 1200 baud > > dial-up. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a VW Beetle with a backseat > > full of 10Mb removable cartridges. > > Aha! Beetle-Net - the prior century's quantum improvement on > Sneaker-Net. >From the *BSD fortune files: > Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes. Works even better with CD's. --Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Jan 25 16:20:21 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 25, 2001 08:52:37 am" Message-ID: <200101252220.f0PMKLb23567@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> > >I've seen these things around, a local advertising firm had stacks of them > >they were throwing away. These are basically Macintosh IIfx's clock chipped > >from 40MHz to 50MHz, in a gigantic metal tower case with power and frame key > >locks. An interesting machine, but remember before buying... > > > >1 - The IIfx uses wacko 64-Bit (I think) SIMMs that aren't compatable with > >anything except a particular LaserWriter. These are VERY hard to find and > >expensive. True. > > In a way its sad, but the once "wicked fast" IIfx now is regularly scrapped > and the boards, memory, etc. sell fairly cheaply. I think I have about a > dozen working IIfx and a fair stash of memory (sheesh, NEVER in my life did > I think I would have this much memory (all sorts, but some IIfx), a pile > about 2 feet across on my dining room table). I picked up a IIfx and I'm pretty pleased with it. I spent a small fortune about 2 years ago upgrading memory in it. I'd love to see it run at 50 mhz... but it's a very sweet box. Too bad I can only run Apple's A/UX or Mac OS 7.x. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 25 16:38:05 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <200101252220.f0PMKLb23567@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> References: <200101252220.f0PMKLb23567@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3766.208.227.9.12.980462285.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Bill wrote: > I picked up a IIfx and I'm pretty pleased with it. [...] > Too bad I can only run Apple's A/UX or Mac OS 7.x. No, System 6.0.8 works on it just fine. IMNSHO, A/UX or System 6.0.8 are the best OSes for it. System 7 is a fat bloated pig of an OS, and the more recent MacOS releases are even worse. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Jan 25 17:01:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <200101252220.f0PMKLb23567@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> References: from Mike Ford at "Jan 25, 2001 08:52:37 am" Message-ID: >I'd love to see it run at 50 mhz... but it's a very sweet box. >Too bad I can only run Apple's A/UX or Mac OS 7.x. Ebay bid is back down to $41, some newbie retracted a $300 bid (which tells us the other guy is one bid increment below $250). I have one of the two IIfx speed toys I want, a Newer clock chipper, but I still am looking for the Tokamac 68040 board. The CC is pretty good at getting boards running as fast as they can, small software controlled speed increments, with dynamic changes to stock speed for certain operations etc. The *nix problem are the 6502 controlled serial ports, I think. How hard could it be to write drivers or whatever to resolve the issue? From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Jan 25 17:40:50 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: <116787.3189356943@[172.18.40.2]> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010124083601.024077a0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010125173923.01ef67c0@pc> At 08:29 PM 1/24/01 -0500, you wrote: > Personal Author: Smith, Robert L. > Title: A tutorial for using the TERAK/RT-11 / Robert L. > Smith. > Edition: Prelim. ed. > Publication info: Dubuque, Iowa : Kendall/Hunt, c1982. > Physical descrip: 128 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. > Subject: RT-11 (Computer operating system) > Subject: TERAK (Computer)--Programming. A "preliminary edition"? Hmm. And there's a Robert (M.?) Smith credited in the PDP-11 FAQ at rmsmith@csc.com. - John From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Jan 25 17:49:15 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4115.208.227.9.12.980466555.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Mike asks about the Mac IIfx serial ports: > The *nix problem are the 6502 controlled serial ports, I think. How > hard could it be to write drivers or whatever to resolve the issue? IIRC, A/UX has support for the IOPs. Other than that, the simplest thing to do is put them in passthrough mode so that it acts like a normal Mac's Z8530. There was a CDEV to do that for System 6.0.8 and probably 7.0. It couldn't be too hard to disassemble it and figure out how it does its magic. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Jan 25 17:50:13 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Comments on these RT-11 Books? In-Reply-To: Re: Comments on these RT-11 Books? (John Foust) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010124083601.024077a0@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20010125173923.01ef67c0@pc> Message-ID: <14960.48053.385700.813677@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 25, John Foust wrote: > At 08:29 PM 1/24/01 -0500, you wrote: > > Personal Author: Smith, Robert L. > > Title: A tutorial for using the TERAK/RT-11 / Robert L. > > Smith. > > Edition: Prelim. ed. > > Publication info: Dubuque, Iowa : Kendall/Hunt, c1982. > > Physical descrip: 128 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. > > Subject: RT-11 (Computer operating system) > > Subject: TERAK (Computer)--Programming. > > A "preliminary edition"? Hmm. And there's a Robert (M.?) Smith > credited in the PDP-11 FAQ at rmsmith@csc.com. Hmm...I believe I know that guy. ;) -Dave McGuire From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 25 17:46:04 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <003501c08729$c29a60c0$06769a8d@ajp166> From: Ethan Dicks >> That is exactly the info I needed... Do you know if a M8061 (RL01/RL02 >> controller w/22 bit addressing) will work in a uVAX II? > >I have used an RLV12 in a uVAX-II (in a BA-23 upgraded by DEC from uVAX-I >to uVAX-II, just for painful accuracy). It's one of my favorite ways of it works well and there is support for it through V4 and V5 has the drivers though they are "unsupported". >> I have a number of RL02s that I want to archive, but I don't want to >> load them into an unknown drive hooked to a system of unknown status >> running software I don't know... If I can test the drives out using >> my uVAX, and archive the software, I can create a new disk pack and >> use it it test the PDP-11/23+... I did it on my 11/23B. I copied them to RD52s (quantum D540) as they are the most rugged drive I know and I had 8 of them free. That's enough to hold 24 RL02s and be bootable with RT-11. For safety the most important ones are duplicates (used two RD52s as images of each other). Testing so far says RD52s have a shelf life of not less than 12 years. Allison From optimus at canit.se Thu Jan 25 08:05:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: <20010125054159.34047.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <879.425T2300T9055873optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >> > ...Make since nes-paw? (How DO you spell nes-paw?) >AFAIK, "n'est pas". Ah, so that was what he was trying to say! I thought it was some odd DEC syntax. =) In that case, it's "n'est-ce pas". -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. -- Support your government, give Carnivore / Echelon something to parse -- classfield top-secret government restricted data information project CIA KGB GRU DISA DoD defense systems military systems spy steal terrorist Allah Natasha Gregori destroy destruct attack democracy will send Russia bank system compromise international own rule the world ATSC RTEM warmod ATMD force power enforce sensitive directorate TSP NSTD ORD DD2-N AMTAS STRAP warrior-T presidental elections policital foreign embassy takeover -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 25 17:27:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > The *nix problem are the 6502 controlled serial ports, I think. How hard > could it be to write drivers or whatever to resolve the issue? The serial ports are 6502-based??? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Jan 25 19:16:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 25, 1 03:27:56 pm" Message-ID: <200101260116.RAA13060@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The *nix problem are the 6502 controlled serial ports, I think. How hard > > could it be to write drivers or whatever to resolve the issue? > > The serial ports are 6502-based??? If they are, I volunteer! :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Jan 25 19:23:12 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk References: <003501c08729$c29a60c0$06769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A70D17F.FFFF319@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > I did it on my 11/23B. I copied them to RD52s (quantum D540) as they > are the most rugged drive I know and I had 8 of them free. That's enough > to hold 24 RL02s and be bootable with RT-11. For safety the most > important ones are duplicates (used two RD52s as images of each other). > Testing so far says RD52s have a shelf life of not less than 12 years. Jerome Fine replies: Just curious - if you are referring to software distributions and especially RT-11 (maybe I am confused), in most cases, the RL02 will not be filled with files. In fact, for RT-11 distributions on an RL02, there were much less than half full. In that case, it was not necessary to save the portion of the RL02 past the last file since it would usually just be all zeros in any case. Under those circumstances, I would look in RT-11 at the files with the command: DIRECTORY/FULL/BLOCK DL1: and find the block number for the space at the end of the RL02. Under V5.00 and later, it was very easy (preferred) to CREATE a Logical Disk "File" with the required size and MOUNT it. Then a simple COPY/DEVICE DL1: LD1: would copy all the files to the logical device and a BINCOM after that DIFF/BINARY/DEVICE DL1: LD1: would ensure that the copy was correct. This was much better than COPY/DEVICE/FILES DL1: DU1:SAVRL.DSK since none of the empty space at the end of the RL02 was wasted. But you could still reduce the size of the file required to hold an RL02 that was not full by using the comand: "COPY/DEVICE DL1:/START:nnn./END:mmm. DL2:/START:ppp." were nnn., mmm., ppp. are the decimal block numbers, so more than one RL02 could be saved on each RL02 if they were only half full. If someone states that they don't at least have V5.00, then you also can't use the RD52 since DU(X).SYS only became available with V5.00 of RT-11. Of course if the RL02 was full, Allison is correct that a single RD52 will hold only 3 RL02 disk packs and in much less volume. Currently, I have managed to find a very OLD Magneto Optical disk drive with cartridges that hold 295 MBytes (8.75 RT-11 partitions) on each side. That is the equivalent of 26 RL02 disk packs on each side or a total of 52 RL02 disk packs on the MO cartridge which is about the size and thickness of 4 RX50 floppy diskettes. I also duplicate important cartridges. I suspect that the MO cartridges will last longer that the MO disk drives. Of course, I also had to acquire a SCSI host adapter as well - considerably more costly than 8 free RD52 drives, but each MO cartridge is MUCH smaller that the 17 RD52 disk drives it replaces. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 25 19:42:19 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: What you're looking for (4000/200 References: <20010124.223246.226.1.william.webb@juno.com> Message-ID: <001901c08739$41220c90$0100a8c0@jack> ----- Original Message > I am actively looking for a working DEC VAX 4000/200 > > Joseph Gaspard try that: http://search-desc.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebaydesc/results.html?dest=&cobran dpartner=x&tc=&ht=1&st=&textonly=n&query=vax*+-parker+-vaxxine+-vaxian+-anar chist+-hacking+-plextor&allebay=1&ebayregioncode=39&SortProperty=MetaStartSo rt&SortOrder=%5Bd%5D&srchdesc=y From optimus at canit.se Thu Jan 25 19:31:43 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <3766.208.227.9.12.980462285.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <706.426T2150T1516055optimus@canit.se> Eric Smith skrev: >Bill wrote: >> I picked up a IIfx and I'm pretty pleased with it. >[...] >> Too bad I can only run Apple's A/UX or Mac OS 7.x. >No, System 6.0.8 works on it just fine. IMNSHO, A/UX or System 6.0.8 >are the best OSes for it. System 7 is a fat bloated pig of an OS, and >the more recent MacOS releases are even worse. Whereas System 6 is only marginally nicer than Atari TOS. The IIfx is a quick machine, and has run System 7 quite fine whenever I've run it. System 6 may be a nicer alternative for low-memory 16-bit machines, but if you've got a 32-bitter, it's not worth the sacrifice. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Jan 25 19:47:20 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <3766.208.227.9.12.980462285.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jan 25, 2001 02:38:05 PM Message-ID: <200101260147.RAA27550@shell1.aracnet.com> > No, System 6.0.8 works on it just fine. IMNSHO, A/UX or System 6.0.8 > are the best OSes for it. System 7 is a fat bloated pig of an OS, and > the more recent MacOS releases are even worse. Gotta disagree with System 7 being a fat bloated pig of an OS. OTOH, 7.5 and on are. Because of this when I bought my PowerBook 520c new, it came with 7.1 installed, and disk images for 7.5 on the HD. You could switch to 7.5 when you added RAM, or if you were really stupid you could try it in 4MB. The 16MB RAM upgrade cost $600! This was in '95. Zane From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Jan 25 20:36:55 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 25, 2001 03:01:27 pm" Message-ID: <200101260236.f0Q2atv23976@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> > The *nix problem are the 6502 controlled serial ports, I think. How hard > could it be to write drivers or whatever to resolve the issue? I think the bigger problem is the SCSI access... I think there's some IOP DMA issues. The problem's not drivers -- just the total lack of documentation on how the stuff works. I don't think Apple's interested in putting the hardware info and software info out on the net. Unfortunately, not everything's as easy to get docs on as DEC gear. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Jan 25 20:38:12 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <3766.208.227.9.12.980462285.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Jan 25, 2001 02:38:05 pm" Message-ID: <200101260238.f0Q2cDv23998@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> > Bill wrote: > > I picked up a IIfx and I'm pretty pleased with it. > [...] > > Too bad I can only run Apple's A/UX or Mac OS 7.x. > > No, System 6.0.8 works on it just fine. IMNSHO, A/UX or System 6.0.8 > are the best OSes for it. System 7 is a fat bloated pig of an OS, and > the more recent MacOS releases are even worse. > I had two choices... System 7 - (7.6) or 7.0 and I went with 7.6 for the TCP/IP support. The BSD box acts as a print and file server with Netatalk. -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Jan 25 20:44:12 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <006e01c08742$ff6479a0$06769a8d@ajp166> From: Jerome Fine >Jerome Fine replies: > >Just curious - if you are referring to software distributions and especially >RT-11 (maybe I am confused), in most cases, the RL02 will not be filled I had other non RT-11 stuff... Also I have a RT-11 disti that is the high priced spread (macro with comments) and that does fill the disk. The standard V5.x BIN disti is maybe 30% of the disk. With say RT-disk I'd archive (same for RSTS) is to do a SQueeze. Of course you want to image copy (RSX) and unix V7. >Of course if the RL02 was full, Allison is correct that a single RD52 >will hold only 3 RL02 disk packs and in much less volume. I know. ;) Though a few were partitioned so I could run them as if they were nominal RL02. That wastes space if they were to be pure archival. >Currently, I have managed to find a very OLD Magneto Optical disk >drive with cartridges that hold 295 MBytes (8.75 RT-11 partitions) >on each side. That is the equivalent of 26 RL02 disk packs on >each side or a total of 52 RL02 disk packs on the MO cartridge That works. I also have that archive on DLT (TK50). >I also duplicate important cartridges. I suspect that the MO cartridges >will last longer that the MO disk drives. Of course, I also had to >acquire a SCSI host adapter as well - considerably more costly >than 8 free RD52 drives, but each MO cartridge is MUCH smaller >that the 17 RD52 disk drives it replaces. Yep, though the RD52s are likely the most reliable of the pack and if the problem is not in the HDA a board swap is possible. It was a direct approach. Next pass will be to move them to a PC with a Cdburner. Allison From foo at siconic.com Thu Jan 25 20:05:11 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <200101260116.RAA13060@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > The *nix problem are the 6502 controlled serial ports, I think. How hard > > > could it be to write drivers or whatever to resolve the issue? > > > > The serial ports are 6502-based??? > > If they are, I volunteer! :-) Hell no! It's mine!! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Thu Jan 25 22:30:05 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... References: <001701c084d7$1fdebce0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <00dc01c08750$a9538390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claude.W" To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > I passed...my policy/philosophy on collecting 197x-198x early 1990s micros > is: > > I rarely pay more then $20 unless its a large amount of stuff and a uncommon > I lot of the stuff I have was given to me. Including some very very nice I'm usually limited to the change in my pocket, but did pay $75 for a complete NEXT cube with both monitors and printers when it turned up in a scrap yard. > I dont hesitate to pick up stuff I dont really need (DEC, books etc...) to > giveaway or trade on here... > I hunt around a lot for the stuff... > While I still dont have a NEXT box and a Lisa or an Apple III, I do have a > nice collection of clean machines from the computer era I grew up in...and > while I could afford ebay prices and get it all in a few weeks, that would > take the fun out of hunting for them, trading with you guys and meeting > people and talking with people I dont know that call me up/email me out of I agree it's not sporting to buy a machine, unfortunately I'm still looking for a BC18z VAX cable for my VAXstation and am getting tempted to buy one when from e-bay to complete a machine. I've spent more on the shelves to hold the machines than on the machines themselves Mike Another Canadian Collector From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Jan 25 23:01:01 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Windows new operating system Message-ID: http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/ From moe8222 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 00:32:20 2001 From: moe8222 at hotmail.com (margie jerve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010125/cf0daf89/attachment.html From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 26 00:24:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, margie jerve wrote: > Do you still have your 8080A's? I have many 8080A's. But this is just the microprocessor. Is there any particular machine you are asking about? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 26 02:07:27 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: OT: TCP/IP protocols standard? References: Message-ID: <004f01c0876f$0603b600$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Has anybody got a URL to a current copy of the associated standards for TCP & IP that you could share with me? thanx, Dick From spc at conman.org Fri Jan 26 02:43:41 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: OT: TCP/IP protocols standard? In-Reply-To: <004f01c0876f$0603b600$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Jan 26, 2001 01:07:27 AM Message-ID: <200101260843.DAA28473@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > Has anybody got a URL to a current copy of the associated standards for TCP > & IP that you could share with me? http://www.rfc-editor.org/ Go to http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcxx00 which lists the current RFCs (the list starts sorted by mnemonic) and from there, select the RFCs you are interested in (they're numbered) and request the ones you are interested in. The RFCs make for some prety dry reading, but they are *the* document standards for TCP/IP. -spc (RFC-791, which is the standard for IP, easily fits into the charter for this group, having been written September 1, 1981) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 26 05:30:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <00dc01c08750$a9538390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: <001701c084d7$1fdebce0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: >I agree it's not sporting to buy a machine, unfortunately >I'm still looking for a BC18z VAX cable for my VAXstation >and am getting tempted to buy one when from e-bay to >complete a machine. > >I've spent more on the shelves to hold the machines than on >the machines themselves One of the regular sellers on a mac list I used to be on offered up an item I want, the often mentioned Tokamac accelerator for a IIfx. I'm not sure how much I might have paid, but the attitude killed any deal right at the start. The "I know I have the toy you want, now beg and wave money" attitude. OTOH I hope I have learned that letting relatively minor amounts of money get in the way of my fun is NUTS. The other thing is to not allow yourself to become jaded by getting a few really good deals. Just because you bought 2 pallets of something once for $23, doesn't mean thats the new fair price you will always expect to pay. Retail happens. ;) From edick at idcomm.com Fri Jan 26 10:47:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: OT: TCP/IP protocols standard? References: <200101260843.DAA28473@conman.org> Message-ID: <000f01c087b7$b0be4b80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yes, I'd expect to see some dry stuff, but the original standard is probably not the one I need to study ... at least not until I'm thoroughly confused by the current one. Thanks for the pointer. I'll have a look. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 1:43 AM Subject: Re: OT: TCP/IP protocols standard? > It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > > > Has anybody got a URL to a current copy of the associated standards for TCP > > & IP that you could share with me? > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/ > > Go to http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfcxx00 which lists the current RFCs > (the list starts sorted by mnemonic) and from there, select the RFCs you are > interested in (they're numbered) and request the ones you are interested in. > > The RFCs make for some prety dry reading, but they are *the* document > standards for TCP/IP. > > -spc (RFC-791, which is the standard for IP, easily fits into the > charter for this group, having been written September 1, > 1981) > > > > From claudew at videotron.ca Fri Jan 26 12:42:28 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Complete Apple IIgs Off. Pub. Ref. Books (10) set for trade Message-ID: <000e01c087c7$bc1e06e0$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> These are nice, real nice, but I dont have the space for books. I am sadly offering these up for trade. I hope to make someone happy with these. Paper covers are intact and all there. Some of these might have a rare "scribbling" in pen or pencil but it's very, very rare. There are 1 or 2 that need to have the bound page part reglued to the hardcover but a little bit of glue can make these perfect. Prodos Technical Reference Manual 186 pages Softcover Apple IIgs ProDos 16 Reference 338 pages Hardcover Apple IIgs Toolbox Reference Vol.1 Hardcover (700+ pages?) Apple IIgs Toolbox Reference Vol.2 Hardcover (700 + pages ?) Apple IIgs Toolbox Reference Vol.3 Softcover (700 + pages ?) Apple IIgs GS/OS Reference Softcover (500+ pages?) Programmer's Introduction to the Apple IIgs Hardcover (500+ pages?) Apple Numerics Manual 295 pages Softcover Apple IIgs Firmware Reference 328 pages Hardcover Imagewriter II Tech. Ref. Manual 204 pages Hardcover (not iigs still...) See a pic at: http://computer_collector.tripod.com/iigs/iigsbks.jpg Ill throw in if needed... 65816/65802 Ass. Language Programming (Fischer, Osborne/McGraw Hill 679 pages) Programming the 65816 (Labiak, Sybex 370 pages) Thats over 35 pounds of books...I guess... Once again, no money offers please. I am looking for nice systems to add to my 197x-198x early 1990s micros collection. Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010126/16bcd618/attachment.html From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 26 12:18:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <200101260238.f0Q2cDv23998@bg-tc-ppp292.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <1092.426T1500T11584901optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> Bill wrote: >> > I picked up a IIfx and I'm pretty pleased with it. >> [...] >> > Too bad I can only run Apple's A/UX or Mac OS 7.x. >> >> No, System 6.0.8 works on it just fine. IMNSHO, A/UX or System 6.0.8 >> are the best OSes for it. System 7 is a fat bloated pig of an OS, and >> the more recent MacOS releases are even worse. >I had two choices... System 7 - (7.6) or 7.0 and I went with 7.6 for >the TCP/IP support. TCP/IP may be installed on any System 7 version. Of course, back in the days, one would have to buy MacTCP or System 7.5 in order to gain TCP/IP, but it came along with my NIC install disks and works fine on System 7.0x or 7.1. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone cares about. Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price and great color graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or Macintoshes. So, to remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent three times as much on a Macintosh and got only half the graphics capability of an Amiga." From vcf at siconic.com Fri Jan 26 12:15:14 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Need manual for Koby Electronics model No. HS300-01 power supply Message-ID: I'm looking for a manual for the Koby Electronics HS300-01 p/s. Has anyone ever heard of this power supply, much less have a manual for it? If so, please reply to me directly . Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 26 13:12:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <003001c087cd$af58c610$53759a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: margie jerve To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, January 26, 2001 1:55 AM >Do you still have your 8080A's? > Yes, and also some of the varients. Allison From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 26 12:52:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <00dc01c08750$a9538390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1032.426T350T11923511optimus@canit.se> Mike Kenzie skrev: >I agree it's not sporting to buy a machine, unfortunately >I'm still looking for a BC18z VAX cable for my VAXstation >and am getting tempted to buy one when from e-bay to >complete a machine. >I've spent more on the shelves to hold the machines than on >the machines themselves Sporting or not, there is no real way for some of us to get at our machines than to buy them. Obtaining a Sun seems quite impossible, save for buying it from eBay. There simply seems to be no infrastructure for disseminating workstations to the masses around here, unless you happen to work at Ericsson or study at a technical faculty. I once bought a DECstation at 500 kr, but when it broke down, my only alternative was to get one from eBay, but at only half the price. This is not only the case with exotic computers, but even rather plain workstations, unless you happen to have contacts or the right infrastructure. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. --- Robert Musil From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Jan 26 14:04:34 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <1032.426T350T11923511optimus@canit.se>; from optimus@canit.se on Wed, Mar 04, 2037 at 02:20:23AM +0100 References: <00dc01c08750$a9538390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <1032.426T350T11923511optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010126150434.H25092@alcor.concordia.ca> On Wed, Mar 04, 2037 at 02:20:23AM +0100, Iggy Drougge (optimus@canit.se) wrote: > > Sporting or not, there is no real way for some of us to get at our machines > than to buy them. Obtaining a Sun seems quite impossible, save for buying it > from eBay. For *any* machine, it's either a case of right time right place, or right price, I think. I've had no trouble obtaining Sun gear, both sun3 and my current real workstation, an ss10/sx. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 26 13:52:58 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: IIfx 6502 IOP in Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200101220142.UAA20729@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> <200101220142.UAA20729@smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: I made a quick search using IIfx and 6502, and DejaNews (crippled as it is) returned the following from Linux patches It talks briefly about the issues around the 6502 IOP, whats been done, ie compatibility mode, and some areas that need looking into. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Jan 26 14:44:40 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <1032.426T350T11923511optimus@canit.se> "from Iggy Drougge at Jan 26, 2001 07:52:07 pm" Message-ID: <200101262044.OAA26394@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Even when you find what you want, it can be difficult to get the computers shipped. I have some computers in New Jersey that I want, does anyone happen to know of a good company that would handle packanging and shipping the computers to Minneapolis? Is it best to have some freight company ship them on pallet? I'm concerned about protecting the front panel switches on a pair of DEC CPU's. Oh, and Suns are as common as dirt. Sun 3's might be getting harder to find, as most have been tossed by now. SLC, ELC, IPC, IPX, these types of Sun workstation should be trivial to find and extremely reasonable to purchase and to ship. A genuine Sun brand monitor would be a bit difficult to ship of course. Though I dont see whats 'wrong' with buying the computers you want. since when is a hobby required to be without expenses? as long as expenses are withing whatever dollar amounts you consider reasonable for your miscellaneous entertainment expenses, then go for it. if you think you'll never get anyone to buy the junk from you for any amount of money in the future, yet you still are willing to pay the cash, then go for it. Its still a free country, the democrats havent figured out how to spend ALL our money yet... -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > Mike Kenzie skrev: > > >I agree it's not sporting to buy a machine, unfortunately > >I'm still looking for a BC18z VAX cable for my VAXstation > >and am getting tempted to buy one when from e-bay to > >complete a machine. > > >I've spent more on the shelves to hold the machines than on > >the machines themselves > > Sporting or not, there is no real way for some of us to get at our machines > than to buy them. Obtaining a Sun seems quite impossible, save for buying it > from eBay. There simply seems to be no infrastructure for disseminating > workstations to the masses around here, unless you happen to work at Ericsson > or study at a technical faculty. I once bought a DECstation at 500 kr, but > when it broke down, my only alternative was to get one from eBay, but at only > half the price. > This is not only the case with exotic computers, but even rather plain > workstations, unless you happen to have contacts or the right > infrastructure. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > Keine Grenze verlockt mehr zum Schmuggeln als die Altersgrenze. > --- Robert Musil > From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Jan 26 15:54:21 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk References: <006e01c08742$ff6479a0$06769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A71F20D.D1B31B6C@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > >Just curious - if you are referring to software distributions and especially > >RT-11 (maybe I am confused), in most cases, the RL02 will not be filled > I had other non RT-11 stuff... Also I have a RT-11 disti that is the high > priced spread (macro with comments) and that does fill the disk. The > standard V5.x BIN disti is maybe 30% of the disk. Jerome Fine replies: I have been told that starting with V5.05, "the high priced spread" was split onto 2 RL02 cartridges with each only slightly more than half full. Which versions of the RT-11 Source distribution do you have? Also, although the BIN distribution was only about 7000 blocks, the update distribution for layered products was much less in most cases. So setting up a DSK file on an RD52 to hold only the actual files from a distribution would be the most efficient way - short of doing a Zip. > >Of course if the RL02 was full, Allison is correct that a single RD52 > >will hold only 3 RL02 disk packs and in much less volume. > I know. ;) Though a few were partitioned so I could run them as > if they were nominal RL02. That wastes space if they were to be pure > archival. I missed something - or I just don't understand what you are getting at. What was partitioned - RD52 or RL02 or a much bigger drive? And I also don't know if "run" means "boot" or something else. One feature that RT-11 never managed was to enable a DSK file to be booted. That might be a bit tricky, but should not be impossible. > >Currently, I have managed to find a very OLD Magneto Optical disk > >drive with cartridges that hold 295 MBytes (8.75 RT-11 partitions) > >on each side. That is the equivalent of 26 RL02 disk packs on > >each side or a total of 52 RL02 disk packs on the MO cartridge > That works. I also have that archive on DLT (TK50). I tried the TK50 - ONCE. Since I do a verify on any backup tape 99% of the time, anyone who has tried to do a BUP verify using a TK50 vs a hard disk will understand. While it took about 19 minutes to write one 32 MByte RT-11 partition, it was over an hour during the "/VERIFY:ONLY" operation that I gave up. Now the TK70 (which uses the IDENTICAL DLT tape - CompacTape I) is another matter. The TK70 drive writes 4 times as much data on one tape and writes the data three time as fast and the "/VERIFY:ONLY" operation is just as fast as the BACKUP. So a BUP with the TK70 can place 8.5 RT-11 partitions on one tape using a TK70. > >I also duplicate important cartridges. I suspect that the MO cartridges > >will last longer that the MO disk drives. Of course, I also had to > >acquire a SCSI host adapter as well - considerably more costly > >than 8 free RD52 drives, but each MO cartridge is MUCH smaller > >that the 17 RD52 disk drives it replaces. > Yep, though the RD52s are likely the most reliable of the pack > and if the problem is not in the HDA a board swap is possible. > It was a direct approach. Reliable - yes. Useful as compared with 256 MBytes - NO! But if you restrict the comparison to RD51,2,3,4 drives, then yes!!!!!!!!!! I have had too many RD53 drives go in the last few years to count. Most were Micropolis 1325 drives with the R7 jumper inserted so that the RQDX2 thought they were a real DEC RD53. But with Hitachi DK515-78 drives and a Sigma RQD11-EC that handles four drives, there is not much to choose between 4 * RD52 (= 120 MBytes) and 4 * DK515-78 (=2.4 GBytes). > Next pass will be to move them to a PC with a Cdburner. Now this is one area I would like to solve as well. But what OS is needed if I want to use the first 64 blocks on the CD? And could I take two of the MO cartridges and burn them onto a single RT-11 bootable CD? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 26 16:44:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:23 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <200101262044.OAA26394@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: <1032.426T350T11923511optimus@canit.se> "from Iggy Drougge at Jan 26, 2001 07:52:07 pm" Message-ID: >Even when you find what you want, it can be difficult to get the computers >shipped. I have some computers in New Jersey that I want, does anyone happen >to know of a good company that would handle packanging and shipping the >computers to Minneapolis? Is it best to have some freight company >ship them on pallet? I'm concerned about protecting the front panel >switches on a pair of DEC CPU's. > >Though I dont see whats 'wrong' with buying the computers you want. since The "wrong" is when it makes the hobby less "fun". A fair part of what makes it "fun" for me is to bargain hunt, and unrelated to cost is that its LOTS of fun to open stuff up and see whats inside. Just ordering something ruins both of those fun parts for me. YMMV There are two kinds of shipping, one that messes up your stuff, and one thats real expensive and still may mess up your stuff. Road trip is my preference. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jan 26 15:21:12 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Collecting ... (was Re: Machines I'm looking for...) In-Reply-To: References: <200101262044.OAA26394@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <1032.426T350T11923511optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010126151159.026f2e80@208.226.86.10> At 02:44 PM 1/26/2001 -0800, you wrote: >The "wrong" is when it makes the hobby less "fun". A fair part of what >makes it "fun" for me is to bargain hunt, and unrelated to cost is that its >LOTS of fun to open stuff up and see whats inside. Just ordering something >ruins both of those fun parts for me. YMMV Its amazing what happens when your web site is mentioned in the local paper ;-) My VAX House pages were mentioned in a recent column in the San Jose Mercury News and that encouraged a number of people to write me an email. Several expressed that their interest in collecting old computers (especially mainframes) was motivated by the fact that they could "get them for free but they cost over a MILLION bucks new!" The idea of owning a million dollar computer was appealing to them. So now I've got three "why do people collect" reasons: 1) Because they always wanted one as a 'kid' 2) Because they learned computers/programming on one. 3) Because they like knowing they own a computer that cost more than their house. As for computers I'm looking for, it seems I've got a line on a MicroVAX I so all I need now is a VAX 4000/705A to complete the "top end" and I'll have the entire Q-bus based VAX line. Donate now and get top billing on the internationally famous House of VAX ;-) --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 26 17:13:57 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <20010126150434.H25092@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <731.427T2850T136855optimus@canit.se> Rich Lafferty skrev: >On Wed, Mar 04, 2037 at 02:20:23AM +0100, Iggy Drougge (optimus@canit.se) >wrote: >> >> Sporting or not, there is no real way for some of us to get at our machines >> than to buy them. Obtaining a Sun seems quite impossible, save for buying >> it from eBay. >For *any* machine, it's either a case of right time right place, or >right price, I think. I've had no trouble obtaining Sun gear, both >sun3 and my current real workstation, an ss10/sx. Naturally. And that's exactly the matter. If you're not at the right place, eBay may be your only choice. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Jan 26 17:16:52 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk Message-ID: <005701c087ef$7db82ed0$53759a8d@ajp166> From: Jerome Fine > >I have been told that starting with V5.05, "the high priced spread" was >split onto 2 RL02 cartridges with each only slightly more than half full. >Which versions of the RT-11 Source distribution do you have? Also, DEC internal copy of the source kit for 5.4. Nominally you could buy a license for it at some really obcence price (more that 3000$). It fills the better part of one RL02. >I missed something - or I just don't understand what you are getting at. >What was partitioned - RD52 or RL02 or a much bigger drive? And >I also don't know if "run" means "boot" or something else. The RD52 into 3 10mb "RL02s" as virtual images. >I tried the TK50 - ONCE. Since I do a verify on any backup tape 99% >of the time, anyone who has tried to do a BUP verify using a TK50 >vs a hard disk will understand. While it took about 19 minutes to write >one 32 MByte RT-11 partition, it was over an hour during the >"/VERIFY:ONLY" operation that I gave up. > >Now the TK70 (which uses the IDENTICAL DLT tape - CompacTape I) >is another matter. The TK70 drive writes 4 times as much data on one >tape and writes the data three time as fast and the "/VERIFY:ONLY" >operation is just as fast as the BACKUP. So a BUP with the TK70 >can place 8.5 RT-11 partitions on one tape using a TK70. Apparently a difference in how it handle streaming of small block sizes. The TK50 does very poorly at writes of short blocks. >Reliable - yes. Useful as compared with 256 MBytes - NO! Well it doesnt require a SCSI board and I had it. If you have MO Cool and all the better. If I had one I'd have used it. >But if you restrict the comparison to RD51,2,3,4 drives, then >yes!!!!!!!!!! I have had too many RD53 drives go in the last >few years to count. Most were Micropolis 1325 drives with >the R7 jumper inserted so that the RQDX2 thought they were >a real DEC RD53. Which is a M1325! That drive was the poorest of the lot and only a bit better than RD32 (ST251). The XT2190 (RD54) is a good drive but like many of that type and size 31 Watts is a lot of heat that is unhealthy over time. RD52 was the coolest running of the pack and still fast for it size (and MFM). >But with Hitachi DK515-78 drives and a Sigma RQD11-EC >that handles four drives, there is not much to choose between >4 * RD52 (= 120 MBytes) and 4 * DK515-78 (=2.4 GBytes). Killer if you have MSCP compatable SCSI, useless with the more common RQDX3. >Now this is one area I would like to solve as well. But what >OS is needed if I want to use the first 64 blocks on the CD? With that many who cares? I'd just use it as an image copy of the real thing. I'd have little interest in booting RT-11 from CD as CDs most are slower than MFM! Also how would you handle RT-11 SWAP.SYS? That has to be read/write. Allison From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Fri Jan 26 17:46:46 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Collecting ... (was Re: Machines I'm looking for...) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010126151159.026f2e80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <013e01c087f2$3ee982a0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > Its amazing what happens when your web site is mentioned > in the local paper For those that are impatient with search engines, here's Chuck: http://cgi.mercurycenter.com/premium/business/docs/gillmor19.htm That's not just Any local paper! John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 26 17:38:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Jan 26, 1 02:44:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1329 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010126/8f427889/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Jan 26 17:33:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <200101262044.OAA26394@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Jan 26, 1 02:44:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2858 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010126/22e40a97/attachment.ksh From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 18:17:57 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... Message-ID: <74.7342466.27a36db5@aol.com> In a message dated Fri, 26 Jan 2001 6:01:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mike Ford writes: << There are two kinds of shipping, one that messes up your stuff, and one thats real expensive and still may mess up your stuff. Road trip is my preference. >> So I guess I am not the only guy that will drive 200 miles for a free DecStation then huh? -Linc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Jan 26 18:30:43 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <005701c087ef$7db82ed0$53759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: I know this is off topic, but I figure some of you may not know how low memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, with lots of other similar deals around. (now I just need a Tbird and a KT133A chipset motherboard so I can speed around with it). From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 26 18:57:31 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Jan 26, 1 04:30:43 pm" Message-ID: <200101270057.QAA30702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I know this is off topic, but I figure some of you may not know how low > memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, > with lots of other similar deals around. (now I just need a Tbird and a > KT133A chipset motherboard so I can speed around with it). Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm stuck in the fourth lotus position." - From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 26 19:02:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: VAX-11/780 boot disk In-Reply-To: <005701c087ef$7db82ed0$53759a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jan 26, 2001 06:16:52 PM Message-ID: <200101270102.RAA27275@shell1.aracnet.com> > With that many who cares? I'd just use it as an image copy of > the real thing. I'd have little interest in booting RT-11 from CD > as CDs most are slower than MFM! Also how would you handle > RT-11 SWAP.SYS? That has to be read/write. > > Allison The key thing with a CD is that you can boot off of CD long enough to restore your system if you loose a HD, or you can restore files off of one of the partitions on the CD. My MutantPDP-11/73 uses a Viking SCSI Controller, and on that I've got a RRD42 CD-ROM, TZ30, and two 100MB SCSI HD's in removable trays. I can pull the trays out and stick different ones in if I want to run a different OS, or I can put them into a bay on my Linux box and 'dd' them to an image file that can then be FTP'd to my Mac and copied to a CD-R. I like this as I feel a *lot* safer having the data on CD-R than I would having the data on magnetic media. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 26 19:59:31 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270057.QAA30702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 26, 2001 04:57:31 PM Message-ID: <200101270159.RAA28474@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I know this is off topic, but I figure some of you may not know how low > > memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, > > with lots of other similar deals around. (now I just need a Tbird and a > > KT133A chipset motherboard so I can speed around with it). > > Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). :-P Let me cheer you up, $515 for 128MB kit for an AlphaStation 500/333, or Sparc 5 RAM 32MB $50-100, or Sparc 20 RAM at about $1.50-2.00 per MB. Of course it's the AlphaStation RAM I need the most followed by at least a couple sticks of 64MB Sparc 20 RAM. BTW, the Sparc RAM prices listed above take eBay into account on the low end! Then there is the 8MB VSIMM I want for my Sparc 20, it's about $240. Of course I could also use some of the Mac DIMMs you mention for my 8500/180, since I use it for Audio work. I'm almost tempted to pickup some PC133 RAM despite the fact I don't need it and stuff it in my G4/450 (already has 256MB). I could almost use it there (Photoshop would like it) I don't have any use for more RAM in my Linux box. Zane From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Jan 26 20:05:39 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Collecting ... (was Re: Machines I'm looking for...) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010126151159.026f2e80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I'll admit the original cost is one of the things that has always tickled me about my machines. (insert dreams of inventing a time machine...) It would be fun if there was a resource which showed the original list price of some of the equipment. On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 02:44 PM 1/26/2001 -0800, you wrote: > Several expressed that their interest in collecting old computers > (especially mainframes) was motivated by the fact that they could "get them > for free but they cost over a MILLION bucks new!" The idea of owning a > million dollar computer was appealing to them. So now I've got three "why > do people collect" reasons: > 3) Because they like knowing they own a computer that cost more > than their house. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Jan 26 20:34:31 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270159.RAA28474@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Jan 26, 1 05:59:31 pm" Message-ID: <200101270234.SAA11494@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Let me cheer you up, $515 for 128MB kit for an AlphaStation 500/333, or > Sparc 5 RAM 32MB $50-100, or Sparc 20 RAM at about $1.50-2.00 per MB. Of > course it's the AlphaStation RAM I need the most followed by at least a > couple sticks of 64MB Sparc 20 RAM. BTW, the Sparc RAM prices listed above > take eBay into account on the low end! Then there is the 8MB VSIMM I want > for my Sparc 20, it's about $240. Oh, I do sympathise :-) Remember the Apple Network Server that I was trying to get parity FPM for? $500 for 64MB. I'm going to throw in the towel and just stick non-parity in it. That's what everyone seems to be doing these days with ANSes. But I would really love that extra security that parity affords, unless someone wants to convince me that parity is not all that useful in memory? (I'd love to be convinced since you will save me around $300.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I've dedicated my life to linguini." ----- From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Jan 26 20:47:49 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270234.SAA11494@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200101270234.SAA11494@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4564.208.227.9.12.980563669.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I'm going to throw in the towel and just stick non-parity in it. That's > what everyone seems to be doing these days with ANSes. But I would > really love that extra security that parity affords, unless someone > wants to convince me that parity is not all that useful in memory? (I'd > love to be convinced since you will save me around $300.) Hmmm... Buy nine modules, gut one module for chips, and solder those onto the parity positions of the other eight modules? From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Jan 26 20:48:16 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up Message-ID: In a message dated 1/26/01 9:39:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu writes: << > Let me cheer you up, $515 for 128MB kit for an AlphaStation 500/333, or > Sparc 5 RAM 32MB $50-100, or Sparc 20 RAM at about $1.50-2.00 per MB. Of > course it's the AlphaStation RAM I need the most followed by at least a > couple sticks of 64MB Sparc 20 RAM. BTW, the Sparc RAM prices listed above > take eBay into account on the low end! Then there is the 8MB VSIMM I want > for my Sparc 20, it's about $240. Oh, I do sympathise :-) Remember the Apple Network Server that I was trying to get parity FPM for? $500 for 64MB. I'm going to throw in the towel and just stick non-parity in it. That's what everyone seems to be doing these days with ANSes. But I would really love that extra security that parity affords, unless someone wants to convince me that parity is not all that useful in memory? (I'd love to be convinced since you will save me around $300.) >> well, its my understanding that all that parity memory will do for you is stop processing when getting a memory error unlike standard memory which will supposedly keep going. The ECC memory I have in my IBM PS/2 95 can fix on the fly if one bit gets out of order as far as i know. www.nothingtodo.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jan 26 21:59:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010126225917.311f135e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Did anyone on htis list but the Tektronix 4051 that was on E-OverPay? "Tektronix 4051 Desktop Graphics SystemItem #1208941360" Joe From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Jan 26 21:17:33 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Ford wrote: p.p.s. That's with a Cooler Master DP5-6H11 15cfm fan and heatsink. jbdigriz From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Jan 26 21:39:17 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote: > p.p.s. That's with a Cooler Master DP5-6H11 15cfm fan and heatsink. > > jbdigriz > Oops... -- It is the business of the future to be dangerous. -- Hawkwind From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Jan 26 22:14:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3A708D55.2852@xs4all.nl> References: <3.0.1.16.20010124154937.401f5a18@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. Joe At 07:32 PM 1/25/01 -0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send >it. > >Regards, > >Ed > >Joe wrote: >> >> Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy. >> >> Joe >> >> At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote: >> >Hello All, >> > >> >For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into >> >a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list'). >> >The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb. >> > >> >Ed >> > >> >P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable. >> >-- >> >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >> >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >> >zakkenvullers >> >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >> >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >> >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! >> > > >-- >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >zakkenvullers >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! > From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Jan 26 22:16:58 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: TI ASC Message-ID: To make up for my blunder (too much Canadian on an empty stomach interferes with the keyboard-mashing apparatus), can anyone give or point me to some solid information on the aforementioned machine? All I can find on the Web is pretty vague. Also , it looks like only 7 or so were actually built. Were they all eventually turned into Toyotas, or does anything remain of them anywhere? Thanks, jbdigriz From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 26 22:21:03 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jan 26, 2001 11:14:46 PM Message-ID: <200101270421.UAA31165@shell1.aracnet.com> > Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. > > Joe Then it sounds like you only need the ancient DOS program LIST.COM, and the text file of the fieldguide, right? Zane From Glenatacme at aol.com Fri Jan 26 22:58:57 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 Message-ID: <56.6709a53.27a3af91@aol.com> Joe Rigdon wrote: > Did anyone on htis list but the Tektronix 4051 that was on E-OverPay? > "Tektronix 4051 Desktop Graphics SystemItem #1208941360" I was going to bid $100 but I'm glad I didn't bother. The selling price -- $356.01 -- seems excessive considering that the tape drive has a problem. Also, the seller has changed his Ebay userid within the last thirty days -- why? I like to see a seller's feedback. Glen 0/0 From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 26 23:03:29 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270159.RAA28474@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1770.427T1450T3635515optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> > I know this is off topic, but I figure some of you may not know how low >> > memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for >> > $65, with lots of other similar deals around. (now I just need a Tbird >> > and a KT133A chipset motherboard so I can speed around with it). >> >> Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). >> :-P >Let me cheer you up, $515 for 128MB kit for an AlphaStation 500/333, or >Sparc 5 RAM 32MB $50-100, or Sparc 20 RAM at about $1.50-2.00 per MB. Of >course it's the AlphaStation RAM I need the most followed by at least a >couple sticks of 64MB Sparc 20 RAM. BTW, the Sparc RAM prices listed above >take eBay into account on the low end! Then there is the 8MB VSIMM I want >for my Sparc 20, it's about $240. >Of course I could also use some of the Mac DIMMs you mention for my 8500/180, >since I use it for Audio work. >I'm almost tempted to pickup some PC133 RAM despite the fact I don't need it >and stuff it in my G4/450 (already has 256MB). I could almost use it there >(Photoshop would like it) I don't have any use for more RAM in my Linux box. Now, to make this on topic, there have been memory module converters before. For the Amiga 3000, which used exotic ZIP (not the moderately common SIPP) modules, there have been SIMM->ZIP converters for a long time. Our hardware guy said he would try to build one for our next meeting, so that we may get some use out of our newly-restored A3000. Similarly, it is possible to wire 72-pin SIMMs into 64-pin ones (used on GVP equipment and certain Macs and addon boards). Why shouldn't it be possible to make SDRAM to SIMM adapters? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. optimus@dec:foo$ %blow bash: fg: %blow: no such job From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 26 23:00:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <914.427T850T3604563optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >I know this is off topic, but I figure some of you may not know how low >memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, >with lots of other similar deals around. (now I just need a Tbird and a >KT133A chipset motherboard so I can speed around with it). Whereas those of us still using SIMMs are left stranded. I've found that buying entire machines just for their memory is now cheaper than buying the SIMMs separately. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "LART is an acronym for Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool, and is generally a piece of heavy hard material such as a cricket or baseball bat, hunk of pipe, or 2x4 for the fine tuning of a luser's atitude. This is a noun that can be used as a verb. If I say I lart someone, I mean that I am performing delicate tuning procedures upon that persons head utilizing a LART. An ICBM would be considered an agressive LART." From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Jan 26 23:34:35 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <914.427T850T3604563optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010126212957.034a80c0@208.226.86.10> At 06:00 AM 1/27/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: >Whereas those of us still using SIMMs are left stranded. I've found that >buying entire machines just for their memory is now cheaper than buying the >SIMMs separately. This has got to be one of the principles of collecting, complete machines are cheaper than the parts. When I do this with a VAX I call it "VAX mining." You get 6 tons of non-working VAX equipment for free and then you put together working systems out of the parts and sell or give away the extra pieces. The first two MicroVAX IIs that I bought (non-working/no drives) had RQD11/E ESDI controllers in them. Replace the drives and voila, nice systems once again. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Jan 26 23:30:48 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <1770.427T1450T3635515optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Jan 27, 2001 06:03:29 AM Message-ID: <200101270530.VAA32055@shell1.aracnet.com> > Now, to make this on topic, there have been memory module converters before. > For the Amiga 3000, which used exotic ZIP (not the moderately common SIPP) > modules, there have been SIMM->ZIP converters for a long time. Our hardware > guy said he would try to build one for our next meeting, so that we may get > some use out of our newly-restored A3000. Similarly, it is possible to wire Sure I've got one for my A3000, it was a lot cheaper than getting ZIP's. > 72-pin SIMMs into 64-pin ones (used on GVP equipment and certain Macs and > addon boards). Why shouldn't it be possible to make SDRAM to SIMM adapters? ISTR, when the 72-pin SIMM's came out you could get converters to use your old RAM, likewise you used to be able to get converters that would turn 4 1MB SIMMs into 1 4MB SIMM. I don't know the techincal difficulties it would cause, but one problem I see is the speed of the RAM. For example, I've got a HP5MP printer, it takes 72-pin SIMMs. If you stick 60ns ones it, it won't be able to use them, but it loves 70ns ones. Then there is the issue of supply and demand, there just isn't the demand for such a product. Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Jan 26 23:43:17 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: > >If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send > >it. On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. This may be stretching things. A lot. The Code Warrior package for software development for PalmOS is available in Mac and Windoze versions. It includes a Palm emulator. Would the HP be capable of running that emulator? From aek at spies.com Fri Jan 26 23:58:16 2001 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 Message-ID: <200101270558.VAA11182@spies.com> > Did anyone on htis list but the Tektronix 4051 that was on E-OverPay? > "Tektronix 4051 Desktop Graphics SystemItem #1208941360" yes From optimus at canit.se Fri Jan 26 23:59:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270530.VAA32055@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Now, to make this on topic, there have been memory module converters before. > > For the Amiga 3000, which used exotic ZIP (not the moderately common SIPP) > > modules, there have been SIMM->ZIP converters for a long time. Our hardware > > guy said he would try to build one for our next meeting, so that we may get > > some use out of our newly-restored A3000. Similarly, it is possible to wire > > Sure I've got one for my A3000, it was a lot cheaper than getting ZIP's. > > > 72-pin SIMMs into 64-pin ones (used on GVP equipment and certain Macs and > > addon boards). Why shouldn't it be possible to make SDRAM to SIMM adapters? > > ISTR, when the 72-pin SIMM's came out you could get converters to use your > old RAM, likewise you used to be able to get converters that would turn 4 > 1MB SIMMs into 1 4MB SIMM. SIMM stackers, yes. A shop which I frequent still has got them, but nowadays 30-pin memory is as rare as hen's teeth, unless you're looking for the 1 MB variety, but adding them up in order to create a dead-slow 4 MB high-rise 72-pin SIMM doesn't seem as the wise thing to do. > I don't know the techincal difficulties it would cause, but one problem I > see is the speed of the RAM. For example, I've got a HP5MP printer, it > takes 72-pin SIMMs. If you stick 60ns ones it, it won't be able to use > them, but it loves 70ns ones. Then there is the issue of supply and demand, > there just isn't the demand for such a product. I think I'll have to go ask around on comp.sys.amiga.hardware or comp.sys.atari.st.tech and see what the tech people say. I actually think that there may be a certain demand, at least enough for some people to set about creating some smaller batches. After all, how many of us aren't using 72-pin systems? Mind you, one problem is the ever-growing tangible size of memory modules. How do you stuff a 14 cm long SDRAM module into a much smaller 72-pin socket? Still, it's apparently possible to stuff 72 pins into 64. Of course, with the blindeningly short access speeds of SDRAM, there may be the possibility that this kind of RAM won't run at "normal" speeds measured in tens of nanoseconds. From foo at siconic.com Fri Jan 26 22:55:37 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 In-Reply-To: <56.6709a53.27a3af91@aol.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > I was going to bid $100 but I'm glad I didn't bother. The selling > price -- $356.01 -- seems excessive considering that the tape drive > has a problem. Also, the seller has changed his Ebay userid within > the last thirty days -- why? I like to see a seller's feedback. After an infortunate miscommunication which led to a 4051 I had shipped from the east coast costing me $300, this price does not seem too far out of whack. Mine is a very nice specimen, in as good condition (if not better since my tape drive works), including joysticks, tapes, manuals, and a cover. The factor that drove the shipping up to three times what it should have been is that the person took it to Mailboxes Etc. and had them box and ship it. They did a nice job but for $300 I'd have expected a woman to pop out of the box when it arrived ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From tony.eros at machm.org Sat Jan 27 00:32:46 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010126225917.311f135e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010127013050.030839c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> It looks like the high bidder may have been a fellow named Richard Ottosen. He also bought the ROM expander listed by the same seller. -- Tony At 10:59 PM 1/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: > Did anyone on htis list but the Tektronix 4051 that was on E-OverPay? >"Tektronix 4051 Desktop Graphics SystemItem #1208941360" > > Joe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 27 01:13:45 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at "Jan 26, 1 09:48:16 pm" Message-ID: <200101270713.XAA30704@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >>I'm going to throw in the towel and just stick non-parity in it. That's what >>everyone seems to be doing these days with ANSes. But I would really love >>that extra security that parity affords, unless someone wants to convince me >>that parity is not all that useful in memory? (I'd love to be convinced since >>you will save me around $300.) > well, its my understanding that all that parity memory will do for you is > stop processing when getting a memory error unlike standard memory which will > supposedly keep going. The ECC memory I have in my IBM PS/2 95 can fix on the > fly if one bit gets out of order as far as i know. It's definitely not ECC and that doesn't seem like that big an advantage. Is it? Someone also told me that parity was usually faster, though. True? Or is it just that parity RAM is high-end RAM anyway and therefore faster because it's higher-end, not because it's parity? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm watching the cat litter clump." ------ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Jan 27 00:36:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270057.QAA30702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Jan 26, 1 04:30:43 pm" Message-ID: >> memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, > >Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). :-P You should have 3 Starmax mac clones of the Apple 4400 like I do, 64 MB of 3.3v unbuffered EDO 11 row refresh single bank is running about $150. From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 27 01:51:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, > > > >Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). :-P > > You should have 3 Starmax mac clones of the Apple 4400 like I do, 64 MB of > 3.3v unbuffered EDO 11 row refresh single bank is running about $150. Well, perhaps I shouldn't pity myself for the high RAM prices - at least I don't run memory hogs like MacOS. =) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jan 27 02:25:15 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: References: <200101270057.QAA30702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> bitch, bitch, bitch. I dare you to find a MS690 128MB memory for less than $900 retail :-) Seriously though, a way cool classic hack would be a memory card for the VAX that took "modern" SIMMs or DIMMs. --Chuck From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Jan 27 02:31:25 2001 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <2315.208.227.9.12.980584285.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Seriously though, a way cool classic hack would be a memory card for > the VAX that took "modern" SIMMs or DIMMs. I've been thinking about building an SBI memory card for the VAX-11/785. They can access a maximum of 512MB physical, so I'd probably use two 256M SDRAM DIMMs. But somehow I imagine that's not what you're looking for. :-) Any idea how much memory a KA655 can support? I've got three 16MB cards on it now, but I wonder how many address lines they brought out. It's a bummer that the KA630 is limited to 16MB. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Jan 27 02:54:40 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <2315.208.227.9.12.980584285.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127005250.02046070@208.226.86.10> At 12:31 AM 1/27/01 -0800, you wrote: >I've been thinking about building an SBI memory card for the VAX-11/785. >They can access a maximum of 512MB physical, so I'd probably use two >256M SDRAM DIMMs. That would be interesting. You could use duct tape to attach a soldering iron to the board so it would generate the same heat that 512MB does :-) >Any idea how much memory a KA655 can support? I've got three 16MB cards >on it now, but I wonder how many address lines they brought out. It's >a bummer that the KA630 is limited to 16MB. KA655, from the manual will support a maximum of 64MB of ECC RAM. (and it does too since my 3800 has 64MB in it) --Chuck From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sat Jan 27 04:30:44 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: 3Com's Palm Pilot line, Handspring's Visor/Platinum/Prism and a couple others run PalmOS but there is a PalmDOS that runs on within PalmOS, much the same as a TRSDOS emulator runs on DOS. I haven't yet seen a DOS or Windows shell that emulates PalmOS I have a Handspring Visor Deluxe and can't recall the Motorola cpu it uses. I know the newer monchrome and color ones has a different processor than them but in the same category. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 10:15 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Dec field guide for Palm Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. Joe At 07:32 PM 1/25/01 -0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send >it. > >Regards, > >Ed > >Joe wrote: >> >> Cool! Can it be used in a HP 200 LX? If so, I'd like a copy. >> >> Joe >> >> At 07:14 PM 1/24/01 -0100, you wrote: >> >Hello All, >> > >> >For those who are using a Palm PDA, I have put the field guide into >> >a database. Mail me if you want a copy (+ tool, this is 'list'). >> >The database is about 100K, the tool is 25Kb. >> > >> >Ed >> > >> >P.S. The database is not finished, but is usable. >> >-- >> >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >> >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >> >zakkenvullers >> >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >> >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >> >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! >> > > >-- >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >zakkenvullers >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! > From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 04:52:37 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <200101262044.OAA26394@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Though I dont see whats 'wrong' with buying the computers you want. since I don't either. It is fun when you manage to stumble across some interesting hardware for much less than it's worth, or on a "you can have it as long as you get rid of it before next Tuesday" type basis, but it's not fun spending months utterly failing to find the part/machine that you're looking for at a reasonable price. Sooner or later you either give in and pay through the nose for it, or give up altogether. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 04:58:17 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270159.RAA28474@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). :-P > Let me cheer you up, $515 for 128MB kit for an AlphaStation 500/333, or ?18.64 per 512K SRAM chip for a prototype system I'm developing :( -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 04:59:00 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: > Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. The Mindspring Visor does too. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 05:09:02 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <1770.427T1450T3635515optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 27 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > addon boards). Why shouldn't it be possible to make SDRAM to SIMM adapters? SDRAM, FPM, and EDO are types of dynamic RAM. SIMM, DIMM, and SO-DIMM are types of memory card. So I'm not sure what exactly you're asking. If you're talking about making an adaptor to plug DIMMs with EDO or FPM on them (which are pretty rare now) into a system designed for SIMM EDO or FPM RAM, that could probably be done. If you're talking about making an adaptor for plugging DIMMs with SDRAM on them into a system designed for SIMM EDO or FPM RAM, you're out of luck unless you design a specialised memory controller to drive the SDRAM signals (it can probably be done, but it'd take a lot of work). This has been something of a problem in the embedded systems world because most manufacturers have already stopped, or are planning to stop in the near future, all production of EDO and FPM RAM. However there are a great deal of embedded systems in production which have not been updated to use SDRAM (to do so would frequently mean moving to a whole new processor generation as older devices like the Z80 and 68000 family simply can't drive SDRAM without a specialised and complex external SDRAM controller). -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 07:09:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: References: from Mike Ford at "Jan 26, 1 04:30:43 pm" Message-ID: > >> memory prices have dropped. I just bought a 256 MB stick of PC133 for $65, >> >>Thanks for making me even more depressed ($80 for 64MB of Mac FPM DIMMs). :-P > >You should have 3 Starmax mac clones of the Apple 4400 like I do, 64 MB of >3.3v unbuffered EDO 11 row refresh single bank is running about $150. I was lucky enough a few weeks back to come up with a non-working PM 8500 which was loaded with RAM. I gained two additional 64MB FPM DIMMs for my PowerCurve from it. I've seen them go for anywhere from $70 up to over $100 on eBay. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 07:19:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> References: <200101270057.QAA30702@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <5.0.0.25.2.20010127001718.0205e920@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >Seriously though, a way cool classic hack would be a memory card for >the VAX that took "modern" SIMMs or DIMMs. I've got a Dataram DR224 8MB memory upgrade for the Digital MicroVAX and MicroVAX II. It is populated with 288 ZIPs (M5M4256L-150). I hate to even think how big a pain it would've been to insert those ZIPs if they had been socketed! I remember the hassle involved in upgrading them in my A3000 a few years ago. According to Dataram, this board was manufactured somtime in '86. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 27 09:00:22 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010127013050.030839c8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010126225917.311f135e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010127100022.3f57ca94@mailhost.intellistar.net> Someone should invite him to join the list. Or is he already a lurker? Joe At 01:32 AM 1/27/01 -0500, you wrote: >It looks like the high bidder may have been a fellow named Richard >Ottosen. He also bought the ROM expander listed by the same seller. > >-- Tony > >At 10:59 PM 1/26/2001 -0500, you wrote: >> Did anyone on htis list but the Tektronix 4051 that was on E-OverPay? >>"Tektronix 4051 Desktop Graphics SystemItem #1208941360" >> >> Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 27 08:26:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <200101270421.UAA31165@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010127092617.314fa690@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:21 PM 1/26/01 -0800, you wrote: >> Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. >> >> Joe > >Then it sounds like you only need the ancient DOS program LIST.COM, and the >text file of the fieldguide, right? > > Zane Yeap, that will do nicely. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 27 08:40:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010127094023.3f572a64@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:43 PM 1/26/01 -0800, you wrote: >> >If the HP runs PalmOS then it can be used. Let me know and I'll send >> >it. >On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Joe wrote: >> Nope, it runs MS-DOS. AFIK only the PalmPilots run PalmOS. > >This may be stretching things. A lot. >The Code Warrior package for software development for PalmOS is available >in Mac and Windoze versions. It includes a Palm emulator. >Would the HP be capable of running that emulator? Some of the newer HPs like the Jornada might since it runs Windows CE but my 200LX only runs MS-DOS so it can't. FWIW I just bought a Jornada. It's a nice machine but the OL has claimed it. Joe > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Jan 27 08:15:43 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010127094023.3f572a64@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010127081440.030a45d0@pc> There are Palm emulators for Windows and X, but they require a ROM image. Early Palm Pilots must be cheap these days, if you really need one. - John From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 27 08:51:40 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1911.427T2000T9515605optimus@canit.se> Alex Holden skrev: >On 27 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> addon boards). Why shouldn't it be possible to make SDRAM to SIMM adapters? >SDRAM, FPM, and EDO are types of dynamic RAM. >SIMM, DIMM, and SO-DIMM are types of memory card. Ahh. I don't own any computers with this kind of memory, so I've never managed to learn the nomenclature. >So I'm not sure what exactly you're asking. If you're talking about making >an adaptor to plug DIMMs with EDO or FPM on them (which are pretty rare >now) into a system designed for SIMM EDO or FPM RAM, that could probably >be done. If you're talking about making an adaptor for plugging DIMMs with >SDRAM on them into a system designed for SIMM EDO or FPM RAM, you're out >of luck unless you design a specialised memory controller to drive the >SDRAM signals (it can probably be done, but it'd take a lot of work). This >has been something of a problem in the embedded systems world because most >manufacturers have already stopped, or are planning to stop in the near >future, all production of EDO and FPM RAM. However there are a great deal >of embedded systems in production which have not been updated to use SDRAM >(to do so would frequently mean moving to a whole new processor >generation as older devices like the Z80 and 68000 family simply can't >drive SDRAM without a specialised and complex external SDRAM controller). I'm also running a 68040 system as my main system, that's why I'm interested in using this kind of memory. I suppose this isn't like wiring a SIMM into a system built for DRAM capsules, such as an Atari ST? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Se pensate che alcune sigle dei cartoni in Italia siano bruttine, ascoltatevi quella di Kenshiro in francese ("Ken le survivant")... Non saprei se sia pi? trash questa o quella di Mazinga Z in Francese... Nicola Solati om den franska signaturen till Hokut? no Ken From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jan 27 09:59:08 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Altaircomputers.org down?? Message-ID: Hello, all: Does anyone know if altaircomputers.org has gone to the great bit bucket?? Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 27 10:11:35 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... References: <731.427T2850T136855optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <004d01c0887c$a2a46960$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Rich Lafferty" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > Rich Lafferty skrev: > > >On Wed, Mar 04, 2037 at 02:20:23AM +0100, Iggy Drougge (optimus@canit.se) > >wrote: > >> > >> Sporting or not, there is no real way for some of us to get at our machines > >> than to buy them. Obtaining a Sun seems quite impossible, save for buying > >> it from eBay. > > >For *any* machine, it's either a case of right time right place, or > >right price, I think. I've had no trouble obtaining Sun gear, both > >sun3 and my current real workstation, an ss10/sx. > > Naturally. And that's exactly the matter. If you're not at the right place, > eBay may be your only choice. Maybe a CARE package can be arranged for collectors in out of the way places. I have been thinking of putting old 386, 486 and Pentiums in containers for shipping overseas. These machines are too new to be of interest to us and they're too old for the general public. From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Jan 27 10:15:29 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:24 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... References: Message-ID: <005001c0887c$a5d13f50$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > > >Though I dont see whats 'wrong' with buying the computers you want. since > > > > The "wrong" is when it makes the hobby less "fun". A fair part of what > > makes it "fun" for me is to bargain hunt, and unrelated to cost is that its > > Seems highly reasonable. Nobody wants to do something for a hobby that > they don't enjoy... > > Finding bargains is, I guess, fun for most of us. We'd all like to find > for relatively little money. > > On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with spending money on a machine > if you will then enjoy programming/using/repairing it. I don't regard > that as not 'sporting'. It's like the difference between the quaterback of the team saying he won the superblow because he was on the field and the owner saying he won the game because he paid the players to do it. From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 10:38:19 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <1911.427T2000T9515605optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 27 Jan 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I suppose this isn't like wiring a SIMM into a system built for DRAM > capsules, such as an Atari ST? No, SDRAM is quite a different beast to "standard" DRAM (in terms of the signals it uses, not just the package type). -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 10:58:59 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <005001c0887c$a5d13f50$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > From: "Tony Duell" > > On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with spending money > > on a machine if you will then enjoy programming/using/repairing it. > It's like the difference between the quaterback of the team > saying he won the superblow because he was on the field and > the owner saying he won the game because he paid the players > to do it. That's a bad analogy unless the only part of the hobby which is interesting to you is tracking down bargains. The amount of money that it cost me to get a machine doesn't affect the amount of enjoyment I get from using it. I'm sure the superbowl manager doesn't think "we won on paper, but it doesn't _really_ count because the players didn't play for free". -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jan 27 11:10:41 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Upcoming swap + clearing space Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010127091041.00982e80@192.168.42.129> CC to port-vax and classiccmp. I'll be hauling a goodly amount of stuff to the upcoming Puyallup electronics swap this year (Saturday, March 10th, Puyallup Fairgrounds, WA), but I've also got some stuff that I know would probably never sell. With that in mind, I'd like to offer the following to the listmembers. Two complete VCB02 video subsystems, including board sets, cab kits, monitors (VR290's if I'm not mistaken), keyboards, 'hockey-puck' rodents, and cabling. These are out of MicroVAX II's. A MicroVAX 2000 "Lunchbox" system. This is one that I kitted out to do low-level formats on RD52 and RD53 drives in the form of adding a longer-than-normal flat cable so the drive could be placed outside the box and still remain connected. I'm pretty sure I have a couple of BA23 boxes I can part with. A DSD-880 floppy/hard drive subsystem with manuals, diag diskettes, and at least one Qbus controller. I may or may not still have a Unibus controller for it as well. Note that this is the only piece I'm going to ask for actual money on (see below). I know I have some MicroVAX II CPU/Memory board sets. I can probably stand to get rid of them. Various other bits and pieces that I have yet to go through. Possibly a VAXStation 3100, probably a DECStation RISC box as well. I've yet to look. I would far rather see this stuff go to good homes than see it scrapped, but I know it's sometimes hard to put a price on things. With that in mind, here's how I'm going to work it. The only piece from this list that I'm going to ask for actual money on is the DSD-880, mainly because it's complete right down to the rack slides, and was known to be fully functional when removed from service about two years ago. I would like to ask $50 or best offer for it. As for the rest of the stuff, it's going up as "Free to good home, but donations to the 'Classic Collecting Fund' will not be refused." ;-) Pickup would be in Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle by about 30 or so miles. I would greatly prefer not to ship anything due to other time-constraining activities like school, running a side business, etc. Get in touch with me if anything looks tempting. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jan 27 11:29:06 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Added to available stuff... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010127092906.00993b80@192.168.42.129> Don't know how on-topic it is for port-vax, but... Added to the 'Available' list in my previous message: An ApplicationDEC 433MP box in great shape. I had it running NetBSD for a little while, so I know it works. It is one of many things that I Just Don't Need right now. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Jan 27 11:42:20 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Upcoming swap + clearing space In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010127091041.00982e80@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: Man. I live just down the road from you.... Must. Resist. Temptation...... > Various other bits and pieces that I have yet to go through. Possibly a > VAXStation 3100, probably a DECStation RISC box as well. I've yet to look. I'd be interested in learning more about these Bruce. (didn't resist very well, did I?) 73's! g.(KC7AFE) From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Jan 27 11:50:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Iggy Drougge wrote: >Well, perhaps I shouldn't pity myself for the high RAM prices - at least I >don't run memory hogs like MacOS. =) I think you'd best do a little studying as to why people put so much RAM in thier Mac's. It's for the same reason that some people put that much in thier PC's. It's not the OS, it's the Apps. When you're working with 50MB+ graphics files with multiple layers in Adobe Photoshop it helps to have lots of RAM. The same thing is true if you're doing Audio (and I would assume video work). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 27 12:04:05 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Jan 27, 1 09:50:17 am" Message-ID: <200101271804.KAA30008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I think you'd best do a little studying as to why people put so much RAM in > thier Mac's. It's for the same reason that some people put that much in > thier PC's. It's not the OS, it's the Apps. When you're working with > 50MB+ graphics files with multiple layers in Adobe Photoshop it helps to > have lots of RAM. The same thing is true if you're doing Audio (and I > would assume video work). Yep. I have 128MB in my 7300, which is not enough because I have to turn virtual memory off to get good video throughput from the capture board. I do a lot of multimedia work on it. 256MB would be better if the price point weren't as prohibitive as it is. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain --------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sat Jan 27 12:17:10 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up References: <200101271804.KAA30008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <001e01c0888d$5d709740$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It's only a matter of time before the norm will be a GB of cache and half a TB of DRAM ... and, of course, 768 TB of HD space. now if we could just get the software folks to leave out what's not necessary, including the bugs. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 11:04 AM Subject: Re: OT memory too cheap to pass up > > I think you'd best do a little studying as to why people put so much RAM in > > thier Mac's. It's for the same reason that some people put that much in > > thier PC's. It's not the OS, it's the Apps. When you're working with > > 50MB+ graphics files with multiple layers in Adobe Photoshop it helps to > > have lots of RAM. The same thing is true if you're doing Audio (and I > > would assume video work). > > Yep. I have 128MB in my 7300, which is not enough because I have to turn > virtual memory off to get good video throughput from the capture board. I do > a lot of multimedia work on it. 256MB would be better if the price point > weren't as prohibitive as it is. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain --------------------- > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 12:21:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <4564.208.227.9.12.980563669.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Jan 26, 1 06:47:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 775 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/0d49f105/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 12:56:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010127005250.02046070@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Jan 27, 1 00:54:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1097 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/ed1827c7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 12:51:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <200101270713.XAA30704@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Jan 26, 1 11:13:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 466 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/ee3aff9c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 13:07:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <005001c0887c$a5d13f50$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Jan 27, 1 11:15:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/5435d2a8/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 13:43:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >But most of those 'reasons for the hobby' don't depend on getting a >bargain, and thus it's not unsporting/against the aims of the hobby to >pay for a machine. > >OK, I know most of us (myself included) can't afford to spend as much >money as we'd like on this hobby, and we'd love it if the machines were >free... However, it wouldn't bother me to spend say \pounds 100.00 on a >machine of particular interest to me, knowing that I would get at least >that much enjoyment/education from programming it, repairing it, learning >about it, etc. And I don't thing that's against the aims of the hobby. All of my life I've collected one thing or another and come from a family where most of the males on my father's side do the same! The common thread that runs through each collection that I've done over the years is that it encompassed things that I personally found interesting. When it comes to this, I simply won't pick up a machine just because it happens to be the popular one at the moment. There are some things in my collection that I picked up just because I happened to be in the right place when it became available so it might not have been something I would've picked up otherwise. I'm also a history buff, so there are also machines that I picked up strictly because of what I percieved thier historical importance to be. Oftentimes though something picked up due to historical perception will also be seen as interesting in various aspects, whether it be design or whatever. As for price, it'd be nice to get everything for free, but lets be realistic. I've gotten my share of stuff for free or next to it, but I've also spent some decent money or a couple of systems that I just wouldn't have gotten otherwise. It doesn't detract from them, though the person who's intent is to turn around and resell them might see it differently. Supply and demand dictates that these machines will become harder to find with each passing year and we should be prepared to deal with the cost associated with that reality. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jan 27 13:43:18 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up References: Message-ID: <3A7324D6.E101A5A2@mainecoon.com> Tony Duell wrote: [snip] > I believe the original IBM PC/AT had a resistor unit that was screwed to > the chassis and connected to a drive power cable if there wasn't a hard > disk installed. I think it was a load on the 12V power line, which was > otherwise too lightly loaded (no hard disk spindle motor) to behave > properly. I've never seen this device, and it's not shown in the techref > (only in the HMS manual), so I can't be sure. It decidedly existed. The first AT I owned arrived sans hard disk; when I went to install same I just about fell over laughing when I found the load resistor -- mounted on a purpose-built bracket that both increased dissipation as well as fit nicely into the mount for the full-height MFM drive ;-) -ck -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 27 13:48:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up Message-ID: <011901c0889b$aa426400$53759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> Is it? Someone also told me that parity was usually faster, though. True? > >There's no reason at all why parity memory should be faster than >non-parity memory. Parity memory just stores a parity bit for each byte The assumption is that parity is available at the ram at the time of write and while true it was calculated some where. Parity can only be calculated (simple combinational logic with attendant delays) at the time of a wirte so the write must for a given ram speed take longer. So if you want the parity to fit in a given memory write cycle time you must use faster ram. >of normal data, so you can detect (but not recover from) some memory errors. There is also ECC ram, those are slower (over all) as the ECC bits have to be calculated. Expensive, errors are caught and recovery is possible. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 27 13:52:47 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... Message-ID: <011a01c0889b$b0314020$53759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >Perhaps somebody could expain the aims of this hobby of ours. Is it to : > >Obtain as many machines as possible without caring what they are > >Obtain as many of particular types of 'interesting' (to you) machines > >Getting (again) the machine that you 'used as a kid' and enjoying those >ancinet games again (say) > >Getting machines that you dreamed of owning many years ago and could >never aford back then > >Getting machines that have particular hardware (or software) features >that you find interesting, whether or not you've ever heard of the >machine before > >Preserving a piece of computer history > >Programming a machine that is really simple enough to fully understand > >Repairing a machine that's built from parts you can get and understand > >Learning about the operation of a computer by understanding a processor >at gate level > > >I guess for me it's many of the above and more besides. Amen.. ... and not every machine I have is for the same set or subset of reasons. Some I hack for the hardware, some represent MY history, other computing history and the handfull that were out of my reach when new. >But most of those 'reasons for the hobby' don't depend on getting a >bargain, and thus it's not unsporting/against the aims of the hobby to >pay for a machine. Generally, though dropping a bomb for a given machine like a ceratin rare painting or other object is as much personal as business. >OK, I know most of us (myself included) can't afford to spend as much >money as we'd like on this hobby, and we'd love it if the machines were >free... However, it wouldn't bother me to spend say \pounds 100.00 on a >machine of particular interest to me, knowing that I would get at least >that much enjoyment/education from programming it, repairing it, learning >about it, etc. And I don't thing that's against the aims of the hobby. That is the clearest explanation I've read. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 27 13:57:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up Message-ID: <011b01c0889b$b9b06ef0$53759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> That would be interesting. You could use duct tape to attach a soldering >> iron to the board so it would generate the same heat that 512MB does :-) > >Many a true word is spoken in jest. ;) >I've seen PCBs in some systems that are nothing more than an array of >high-power resistors connected between (one of?) the supply lines and >ground. Said PCBs are generally fitted if a particular option (consisting >of a PCB containing logic chips, etc) is not installed. And the only >purpose of the board of resistors is to load the PSU so that it stays in >regulation -- the load of the rest of the machines (without the optional >logic board) is not enough for the PSU to remain happy. The best known and classic is Microvax2000 diskless systems. The disks of the day were 30W loads and if they were not used there was a board (array of resistors). The matching tape (TK50..) used the same box, PS and the resistor array to load it. Allison From jtinker at coin.org Sat Jan 27 14:21:13 2001 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up References: <200101271804.KAA30008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <001e01c0888d$5d709740$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A732DB8.A8603DE2@coin.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's only a matter of time before the norm will be a GB of cache and half a > TB of DRAM ... and, of course, 768 TB of HD space. now if we could > just get the software folks to leave out what's not necessary, including the > bugs. > > Dick Sorry Dick, that wouldn't fit the bottom line. Business reasons, you know. What they get paid to do. -- John Tinker From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 14:13:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <3A7324D6.E101A5A2@mainecoon.com> from "Chris Kennedy" at Jan 27, 1 11:43:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1613 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/b55cc34c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 14:53:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <011901c0889b$aa426400$53759a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jan 27, 1 02:48:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/a7142c9c/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 27 14:55:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <928.427T250T13154019optimus@canit.se> Zane H. Healy skrev: >Iggy Drougge wrote: >>Well, perhaps I shouldn't pity myself for the high RAM prices - at least I >>don't run memory hogs like MacOS. =) >I think you'd best do a little studying as to why people put so much RAM in >thier Mac's. It's for the same reason that some people put that much in >thier PC's. It's not the OS, it's the Apps. When you're working with >50MB+ graphics files with multiple layers in Adobe Photoshop it helps to >have lots of RAM. The same thing is true if you're doing Audio (and I >would assume video work). Yoo ain't foolin' me, boy. How else would you explain that my IIci immediately recognised the 16 MB I added into it (before, it had only run on 8), and immediately found a way for the OS to take over the absolute majority of that memory, leaving me with about as much (little) free memory as before. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Test makers do it sometimes/always/never. From leec at slip.net Sat Jan 27 15:37:22 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: TI ASC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: James, There is a portion of a ASC machine in the collection of The Computer Museum History Center (www.computerhistory.org) in Mountain View California (I'm the volunteer Volunteer Coordinator at the Center). Your post is timely as at the Java History lecture about a month ago, I met a member of the ASC team at the post-lecture reception. The ASC is not on display, but in storage. We walked over to the warehouse and he had a wealth of information concerning the portion of the system we have. I'll forward your email to him (I have his name and email at work). Hope this helps. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of James B. DiGriz > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 8:17 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: TI ASC > > > > To make up for my blunder (too much Canadian on an empty stomach > interferes with the keyboard-mashing apparatus), can anyone give or point > me to some solid information on the aforementioned machine? All I > can find on > the Web is pretty vague. Also , it looks like only 7 or so were actually > built. Were they all eventually turned into Toyotas, or does > anything remain > of them anywhere? > > Thanks, > jbdigriz > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Jan 27 16:41:38 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Sharp PC7000 Message-ID: <4.1.20010127152953.00b18f00@206.231.8.2> Hey folks, who's got one of the above subject machines? I found one over at the Salvation Army store. Looks very clean and complete: has the Operator's manual in a slipcase, MSDOS manual (DOS v.2.1), keyboard, printer, vinyl slipcover, cables, some floppies of s/w. They want $50 for it which is probably a little high. Maybe I can negotiate it down to something better. Found several hits on a NorthernLight search. One good photo to help show what I'm talking about is at: http://home.plex.nl/~hwrsoft/11.htm Some list members' collections show as hits too, but no descriptive info was to be found in those links. Anybody have any comments about this machine? How was the screen clarity? Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From rcini at optonline.net Sat Jan 27 16:48:35 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Datamaster and parts available Message-ID: Hello, all: I know that I posted this once before, but I'll make the offer again. I have a partially-working Datamaster for sale or trade. It consists of the Datamaster unit, lots of spare parts (including power supply, keyboard, and miscellaneous boards) and a few disks. There are no manuals or other paperwork. There's only one condition: pick-up only in northeastern Nassau County, New York (Long Island). This is large and very heavy, so I'm not inclined to ship it. I also have a few random items available that are shippable: Two 3Com PCI network cards (spares), a Zilog Z8 ICE/evaluation board, and NuBus graphics card and TokenRing cards. Anyone interested, contact me off list. Thanks. Rich ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 27 17:08:44 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up Message-ID: <014201c088b7$090e2ad0$53759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's as simple as that. > >After all, in a reasonably complex system you're going to want to write a >given word to a given address. The address is probably going to have to >be relocated by some kind of MMU, and then applied to the DRAM in 2 >halves. And while the address is being processed in this way, it's Parity is either in parallel or downstream of the MMU. Also the parity is always applied at the byte level so for 72pin and larger simms there are two (or more) bytes to apply parity to. >possible that the data is already 'available', so the partity bit could >be calculated at the same time. Then it doesn't take any longer to >calculate and store parity -- in a sense the critical path could be the >address relocation. Still no. Parity is calculted from the data and by default has some inherent propagation delay associated with the logic. For example the old and venerable 74180 that delay is 10s of nS (about 40 from the 1985 databooks) LATER than the the data. >It depends -- a lot -- on the design of the entire machine. While there may be exceptions parity is generally downstream and part of the memory system rather than CPU. The expections are some of the big iron that had parity on all data as part of the cpu. >So I guess that it might well be the case that parity memory _for a >particular machine_ might have to use faster chips than non-parity memory, >and this might be one reason why they're so much more expensive. But it's >certainly not the case that all memory modules that store a parity bit are >faster than non-parity modules. They are expensive if only for they are Nbits wider (more rams). Allison From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jan 27 17:16:53 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up References: Message-ID: <3A7356E5.63A5527A@mainecoon.com> Tony Duell wrote: [snip] > What I have never managed to find out (and if anyone here knows, please > let us all know) is (a) what power line this resistor loads (it has to be > either +5V or +12V as it connects to a drive power connector) and (b) > what is the resistance (and wattage) of this resistor. Caution: What follows is from memory which is increasingly subject to bit rot. My recollection was that it loaded the 12V line, not the 5V line. I don't recall the value nor the rated wattage, but it was packaged in the finned metal package (as opposed to ceramic) that I generally associate with things dissipating above 5W -- and it was sporting heat sink compound between it and the cage, suggesting that there was at least an attempt being made to dump heat into the rest of the chassis. > I'm not sure how essential it is either. Certainly most PC/AT PSUs don't > like running with no load (they trip, they don't fail permanently), but > in my experience only the 5V line needs to be loaded, and the motherboard > will do that. Certainly I've run PC/AT machines without a hard disk and > without this load resistor. As have I (that machine, in fact). My assumption was that it simply represented conservative design on the part of IBM to avoid the 12V supply becoming unloaded when the floppy wasn't running. -ck -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Jan 27 17:31:14 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up References: <011901c0889b$aa426400$53759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A735A42.D3717D38@mainecoon.com> ajp166 wrote: [snip] > Parity can only be calculated (simple combinational logic with attendant > delays) at the time of a wirte so the write must for a given ram speed > take longer. So if you want the parity to fit in a given memory write > cycle time you must use faster ram. For a certain class of processor-memory interface architecture this is clearly true, but it's hardly a required consequence of using parity or ECC memory. This is frequently evident in pipelined and particularly superscalar machines where the processor's bus interface unit runs asynchronous from the pipes; since the transfers are often in slugs which are multiples of the machine's wordsize there's usually ample time to be found to compute parity or ECC polynomials without stalling or slipping the pipes. Depending on the processor architecure, I suppose you could also bury the logic in the memory controller, a la DG. -ck -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Jan 27 17:31:44 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > After all, in a reasonably complex system you're going to want to write a > given word to a given address. The address is probably going to have to > be relocated by some kind of MMU, and then applied to the DRAM in 2 > halves. And while the address is being processed in this way, it's > possible that the data is already 'available', so the partity bit could > be calculated at the same time. Then it doesn't take any longer to > calculate and store parity -- in a sense the critical path could be the > address relocation. Nope, the memory controller and the memory management unit are completely seperate modules, in fact they're usually not even on the same chip. I suspect that what most (all?) memory controllers that support parity RAM do is to pipeline the access, so it takes two cycles to store a word instead of one (but the processor doesn't see any difference because the controller can accept and compute the parity of the next store whilst it's writing the previous one out to the RAM). On loads, the controller simply has to generate an NMI if it detects a parity failure, so that wouldn't require an intermediate stage. > So I guess that it might well be the case that parity memory _for a > particular machine_ might have to use faster chips than non-parity memory, I'm pretty sure the chips used in parity modules are exactly the same spec as those used in non parity. > and this might be one reason why they're so much more expensive. But it's That's just economies of scale. Joe Windoze User doesn't really want to pay an extra 1/8 on top of the cost of his RAM to be informed when a stray particle of solar radiation happens to flip a memory cell. ECC is more useful because at least it can recover from a bit error, instead of simply crashing (which admittedly is probably still better than silently corrupting your data). Since so few people buy parity RAM modules, the few who are willing to pay extra for them (medium-high end server manufacturers, Unix workstation manufacturers, etc.) have to pay commodity prices. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 17:39:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <014201c088b7$090e2ad0$53759a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Jan 27, 1 06:08:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1828 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010127/661a1a15/attachment.ksh From owad at applefritter.com Sat Jan 27 18:00:43 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <928.427T250T13154019optimus@canit.se> References: <928.427T250T13154019optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010128000043.11657@mail.lafayette.edu> >Yoo ain't foolin' me, boy. How else would you explain that my IIci immediately >recognised the 16 MB I added into it (before, it had only run on 8), and >immediately found a way for the OS to take over the absolute majority of that >memory, leaving me with about as much (little) free memory as before. Without 32-bit addressing enabled, the MacOS can only access 8 MB RAM. Anything more is reported as being used by the system. You need to switch from 24-bit to 32-bit addressing in the Memory control panel. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From at258 at osfn.org Sat Jan 27 18:22:02 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Datamaster and parts available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Which model Datamaster, Rich? On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > I know that I posted this once before, but I'll make the offer again. I > have a partially-working Datamaster for sale or trade. It consists of the > Datamaster unit, lots of spare parts (including power supply, keyboard, and > miscellaneous boards) and a few disks. There are no manuals or other > paperwork. > > There's only one condition: pick-up only in northeastern Nassau County, New > York (Long Island). This is large and very heavy, so I'm not inclined to > ship it. > > I also have a few random items available that are shippable: Two 3Com PCI > network cards (spares), a Zilog Z8 ICE/evaluation board, and NuBus graphics > card and TokenRing cards. > > Anyone interested, contact me off list. Thanks. > > Rich > > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 27 18:46:36 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <928.427T250T13154019optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 27, 1 09:55:05 pm" Message-ID: <200101280046.QAA29018@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Yoo ain't foolin' me, boy. How else would you explain that my IIci immediately > recognised the 16 MB I added into it (before, it had only run on 8), and > immediately found a way for the OS to take over the absolute majority of that > memory, leaving me with about as much (little) free memory as before. Because, IIRC, the MacOS kernel is partially compressed and uncompresses itself to whatever amount will comfortably fit in memory (at least in System 7). When I had 4MB in my IIsi, MacOS took up 2.2MB. When I had eight, it went to 3.9. This also accounts for the speed increase you see by stuffing more memory into older Macs (observations made on System 7.1.2). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but the doorjambs need dusting." ------------- From optimus at canit.se Sat Jan 27 19:03:24 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: <20010128000043.11657@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Tom Owad wrote: > >Yoo ain't foolin' me, boy. How else would you explain that my IIci > immediately > >recognised the 16 MB I added into it (before, it had only run on 8), and > >immediately found a way for the OS to take over the absolute majority of that > >memory, leaving me with about as much (little) free memory as before. > > Without 32-bit addressing enabled, the MacOS can only access 8 MB RAM. > Anything more is reported as being used by the system. Ah, bollocks, I thought I had solved that by using a IIci, which is 32-bit clean. > You need to switch from 24-bit to 32-bit addressing in the Memory control > panel. I see now that it was turned to 24-bit, right. The 4-meggers have found a new home now, though. =) From foo at siconic.com Sat Jan 27 17:56:12 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Alex Holden wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > From: "Tony Duell" > > > On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with spending money > > > on a machine if you will then enjoy programming/using/repairing it. > > It's like the difference between the quaterback of the team > > saying he won the superblow because he was on the field and > > the owner saying he won the game because he paid the players > > to do it. > > That's a bad analogy unless the only part of the hobby which is > interesting to you is tracking down bargains. The amount of money that it That's just a bad analogy, period. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Jan 27 18:00:28 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Altaircomputers.org down?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sort of -- it looks like his domain expired a couple months ago. But he has another one that points to the same site (don't ask how I know this): http://www.grocerybill.com/altair/ -- Doug On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone know if altaircomputers.org has gone to the great bit bucket?? > > Rich > > Rich Cini > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ > > From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Jan 27 19:15:44 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: TI ASC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Lee Courtney wrote: > James, > > There is a portion of a ASC machine in the collection of The Computer Museum > History Center (www.computerhistory.org) in Mountain View California (I'm > the volunteer Volunteer Coordinator at the Center). Your post is timely as > at the Java History lecture about a month ago, I met a member of the ASC > team at the post-lecture reception. The ASC is not on display, but in > storage. We walked over to the warehouse and he had a wealth of information > concerning the portion of the system we have. I'll forward your email to him > (I have his name and email at work). Hope this helps. > That's great, Lee, thanks much. Wish there was something like TCMHC around here (Georgia). jbdigriz From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Jan 27 19:26:38 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up Message-ID: <016201c088c9$f3d0b800$53759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >2) The physical address to write it to. > >To get the first may involve calculating the parity bits based on the raw >data word. This, agreed, takes some time, so the parity bit is available >later than the data. > >To get the second involves an MMU-type operation. We have to map the >program-generated virtual address to a physical address. This will also >take some time, so the relocated address is available some time after the >virtual address. Usually the physical address is the only one we talk of at the memory pins and any virtualization, mapping and all is prior history. >We then have to apply the address to the memory. Probably in 2 parts, row >and column. Until both parts have been applied to the memory, in general >the state of the data lines is irrelevant. Again, strobing in the address >in two parts takes time. Usually the address for the memory preceeds the data. If the system expects DRAM it's often far earlier to permit the MUX operation. However, in the PC world where the conversation started considerations of MMUs and the like were limited to the older 286s as the 386 class and later were alrady delivering physical addresses to the memory subsystem. >Now, suppose the parity calculation takes p ns. Now, if the parity >generator circuit can get the raw data more then p ns before the address >can be got into the RAM, then the parity logic is not slowing things down >at all. The parity bit is available before the RAM can use it anyway. Save for that is speculative as most cpus deliver data AFTER the address of in coincidence at best. Even then it's meaningless as the timing relative to what ever strobes declare the address valid and qualify the data read or write. One generalization that has mostly held true for most years is that memory (at the system level) usually slower than cpu. This leads to things like pipelining, caching and burst mode(block) transfers to get stuff in and out of the finite bandwith resource. That consideration was as true for the PDP-8 as latest PentIV/1.4G. It's also true that things like DMA and video(bit blitters) are also competing for the same ram bandwith. Allison From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Jan 27 20:17:40 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: DSD-880 Claimed Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010127181740.00990e90@192.168.42.129> The DSD-880 I had offered earlier has been claimed. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From ktparks at mindspring.com Sat Jan 27 20:40:20 2001 From: ktparks at mindspring.com (Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Multimedia Extensions for Windows 3.0? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010127194020.0079c940@mindspring.com> I've been looking for "Multimedia Extensions for Windows, Version 1.0" (for Windows 3.0) for many months now. Anyone know where I can find a copy? I saw someone in an old message from 1999 mention that he had it on a CD (along with Windows 3.0) but when I e-mailed him, it bounced back. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 20:46:20 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Tek 4051 Message-ID: Hm, I know Richard Ottosen, I suppose I can ask him on Tuesday if he bought it. Looks like the next CU surplus auction may have some Tek things, as the auction catalog lists a few "Tektronix terminal"{s}. I really love their totally detailed descriptions, lemme tell ya.. If anyone would be interested I can try to find out more details. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 27 21:34:44 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT memory too cheap to pass up In-Reply-To: References: <3A7324D6.E101A5A2@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010127223444.3be7c93e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:13 PM 1/27/01 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Tony Duell wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> > I believe the original IBM PC/AT had a resistor unit that was screwed to >> > the chassis and connected to a drive power cable if there wasn't a hard >> > disk installed. I think it was a load on the 12V power line, which was >> > otherwise too lightly loaded (no hard disk spindle motor) to behave >> > properly. I've never seen this device, and it's not shown in the techref >> > (only in the HMS manual), so I can't be sure. >> >> It decidedly existed. The first AT I owned arrived sans hard disk; when I > >I don't doubt it existed. It's shown in the Hardware Maintenance and >Service manuals (if you're wondering why I have those board-swapper >guides, it's because I was given them when I bought a second-hand set of >TechRefs...). > >What I have never managed to find out (and if anyone here knows, please >let us all know) is (a) what power line this resistor loads (it has to be >either +5V or +12V as it connects to a drive power connector) and (b) >what is the resistance (and wattage) of this resistor. I have a resistor like that that I found in a HP PC clone expansion chassis. I don't know the values off hand but I can dig it out and find out. I saved the resistor to use as a dummy load for testing power supplies. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Jan 27 22:03:46 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Dec field guide for Palm In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010127081440.030a45d0@pc> References: <3.0.1.16.20010127094023.3f572a64@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010126231446.311f3dc0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010127230346.3ab74102@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:15 AM 1/27/01 -0600, you wrote: >There are Palm emulators for Windows and X, but they require >a ROM image. Early Palm Pilots must be cheap these days, if >you really need one. > >- John Cripes! I already have a Jornada, a Newton, a Psion and TWO HP 200LXs! Joe > > From mark_k at iname.com Sat Jan 27 21:22:37 2001 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 Jason McBrien wrote: > I've seen these things around, a local advertising firm had stacks of them > they were throwing away. These are basically Macintosh IIfx's clock chipped > from 40MHz to 50MHz, in a gigantic metal tower case with power and frame key > locks. An interesting machine, but remember before buying... > > 1 - The IIfx uses wacko 64-Bit (I think) SIMMs that aren't compatable with > anything except a particular LaserWriter. These are VERY hard to find and > expensive. Some time ago, a seller on eBay mentioned in the item listing for some IIfx SIMMs that they also work with Amiga accelerator cards made by GVP (Great Valley Products). Has anyone tried using IIfx SIMMs with a GVP card? (One which takes 64-pin SIMMs, obviously.) While the connector may be the same, I'm sceptical that they are compatible; a few years ago I tried an AST 64-pin SIMM in my GVP card unsuccessfully. -- Mark From jolminkh at bigpond.net.au Sat Jan 27 22:27:37 2001 From: jolminkh at bigpond.net.au (Hans Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Sharp PC7000 References: <4.1.20010127152953.00b18f00@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <000a01c088e2$a4fffc40$3adc8490@nsw.bigpond.net.au> > Anybody have any comments about this machine? How was the screen clarity? > This machine was advertised to be the first portable with a backlit LCD screen. From Glenatacme at aol.com Sat Jan 27 22:32:32 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines Message-ID: <5b.11209d28.27a4fae0@aol.com> Any help out there? Glen 0/0 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Jan 27 23:03:12 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: <5b.11209d28.27a4fae0@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at "Jan 27, 1 11:32:32 pm" Message-ID: <200101280503.VAA30274@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Any help out there? For wanting a MicroAce? Yes, there are support groups for that kind of thing. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't walk a mile in their shoes. They smell funny. ---------------------- From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Jan 28 00:12:22 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: Stuff I need to get rid of Message-ID: <200101280613.f0S6DCI30648@grover.winsite.com> Hi, gang. I have a boxed copy, on tape, of Island Write/Paint/Draw for SCO. It was given to me a couple of years ago, and since I have neither a tape drive of the necessary format nor a SCO box, I really don't need it. Pay shipping and it's yours. If you need more details, email me off-list and I'll see what I can come up with. I also have an old Intel SBC developers board with some docs. Don't know if it works or not. It's a little dirty, but considering it's age...if you need more details, email me. Once again, pay shipping, give it a good home, and it's yours. Thanks! Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jan 28 00:56:03 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: <200101280503.VAA30274@stockholm.ptloma.edu> "from Cameron Kaiser at Jan 27, 2001 09:03:12 pm" Message-ID: <200101280656.AAA29338@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Any help out there? > > For wanting a MicroAce? Yes, there are support groups for that kind of thing. > ;-) > Now, now. You know I'm the only one who has a MicroAce. In the original Box... sitting between the Teraks and the Sun 1/100U's... -Lawrence LeMay From archer at topnow.com Sun Jan 28 02:44:35 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:25 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines References: <200101280656.AAA29338@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3A73DBF3.FC1D452A@topnow.com> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Any help out there? > > > > For wanting a MicroAce? Yes, there are support groups for that kind of thing. > > ;-) > > > > Now, now. You know I'm the only one who has a MicroAce. In the original > Box... sitting between the Teraks and the Sun 1/100U's... > > -Lawrence LeMay Teraks? Wow, that brings back memories. How possible/impossible is it to find them? -- Ross From alex at linuxhacker.org Sun Jan 28 04:25:15 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: OT: Today's User Friendly Message-ID: I thought this seemed quite appropriate for the Californians on this list: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010128&mode=classic -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Jan 28 05:19:51 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: <3A73DBF3.FC1D452A@topnow.com> References: <200101280656.AAA29338@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: >Teraks? > >Wow, that brings back memories. >How possible/impossible is it to find them? If you find one it isn't too hard, but otherwise close to impossible. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 05:44:14 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines Message-ID: I think a better question would be "How hard is it to find the goddamned monitor and keyboard for the bastard?" As the owner of a Terak, I can say its cute, but pretty useless sans monitor and keyboard... grrr.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 28 10:10:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would anyone by chance have 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs available? I'd like to finish filling out the RAM in my NeXTstation. Unfortunately, the 4meg SIMM is the largest that I can use even though it has 8 SIMM slots. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From univac at earthlink.net Sun Jan 28 10:49:31 2001 From: univac at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: AbandonWare Petition Message-ID: For those of you who haven't already, why don't you sign the AbandonWare Petition at http://mivox.com/essays/text/petition.html Thanks, Owen From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Jan 28 10:53:21 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010128105205.01f88a80@pc> At 04:44 AM 1/28/01 -0700, you wrote: >I think a better question would be "How hard is it to find the goddamned monitor and keyboard for the bastard?" As the owner of a Terak, I can say its cute, but pretty useless sans monitor and keyboard... grrr.. The monitor is a generic RS-170 video, so that's easy to recreate. The keyboard's parallel output is well-documented, I imagine it could be recreated in several ways. The docs are online. - John www.threedee.com/jcm/terak From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 28 11:47:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Altaircomputers.org down?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Doug Salot wrote: > Sort of -- it looks like his domain expired a couple months ago. But he > has another one that points to the same site (don't ask how I know this): > http://www.grocerybill.com/altair/ Well, then I guess he can't really call his site "altaircomputers.org" anymore now can he? Here's a bitch that I'd like to address: if you put up a site comemorating old computers, please try to give it a title other than the domain name. Like, I'd much rather see something lame and generic like "Joe Bob's Altair Computer Website" than "altaircomputers.org". Ideally you'll be creative: "Altair Depot" or "Altair Junction" or "Altair Clubhouse" or "Altair Pit of Despair" or whatever. I say this because I hate when I get a link submission for the VCF Link Library and the site title is the URL. It doesn't look good in my listings. Now, all of you who already have a link in the Library but don't have a title for your website, don't get too self-conscious. If you decide to come up with a title after reading this rant, or you were planning to put up a website without a proper title, then good. I've made an impact. "altaircomputers.org" is a good case in point. It really isn't "altaircomputers.org" anymore, is it? Now I gotta go and edit my database. Calling yourself anything.com or anything.org is completely passe these days anyway. Ok, I'm done. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Jan 28 11:52:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: <200101280656.AAA29338@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Now, now. You know I'm the only one who has a MicroAce. In the original > Box... sitting between the Teraks and the Sun 1/100U's... Isn't the MicroAce a little handheld carthridge-based video game system? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From archer at topnow.com Sun Jan 28 13:29:34 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Altaircomputers.org down?? References: Message-ID: <3A74731E.473A5648@topnow.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: [bandwidth snip] > Calling yourself anything.com or anything.org is completely passe these > days anyway. Not only passe`, but sure to induce anxiety attacks among both investors and venture capitalists. :) -- Ross > > Ok, I'm done. What, and with no fork? Your point about titles is well taken. My website for "www.shortwaveplanet.com" is now uncreatively entitled "You have jut landed on the Shortwave Planet". At least I left off the .com, eh? :) -- Ross > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Jan 28 14:56:13 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: "from Sellam Ismail at Jan 28, 2001 09:52:39 am" Message-ID: <200101282056.OAA00233@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > Now, now. You know I'm the only one who has a MicroAce. In the original > > Box... sitting between the Teraks and the Sun 1/100U's... > > Isn't the MicroAce a little handheld carthridge-based video game system? Sinclair ZX80 clone. An illegal US kit, actually. 1K or 2K ram. -Lawrence LeMay > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From philpem at btinternet.com Sun Jan 28 15:16:20 2001 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... References: <200101281930.NAA96911@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <000801c0896f$90e3d780$c26a073e@papemjr> > > > > > > On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with spending money > > on a machine > > > if you will then enjoy programming/using/repairing it. I > > don't regard > > > that as not 'sporting'. > > > > It's like the difference between the quaterback of the team > > saying he won the superblow because he was on the field and > > the owner saying he won the game because he paid the players > > to do it. > > > Perhaps somebody could expain the aims of this hobby of ours. Is it to : > > Obtain as many machines as possible without caring what they are Probably not. > Obtain as many of particular types of 'interesting' (to you) machines Almost certainly. > Getting (again) the machine that you 'used as a kid' and enjoying those > ancinet games again (say) Still got the machine I learned to program on (a Sinclair ZX Spectrum +2A). Still works, too :-) > Getting machines that you dreamed of owning many years ago and could > never aford back then Don't think that applies to me. > Getting machines that have particular hardware (or software) features > that you find interesting, whether or not you've ever heard of the > machine before Hmm... Depends on whether I've got enough place to store the thing. > Preserving a piece of computer history Yes. > Programming a machine that is really simple enough to fully understand Definetly. > Repairing a machine that's built from parts you can get and understand When it breaks :-) > Learning about the operation of a computer by understanding a processor > at gate level Yup. > I guess for me it's many of the above and more besides. Same here. > OK, I know most of us (myself included) can't afford to spend as much > money as we'd like on this hobby, and we'd love it if the machines were > free... However, it wouldn't bother me to spend say \pounds 100.00 on a > machine of particular interest to me, knowing that I would get at least > that much enjoyment/education from programming it, repairing it, learning > about it, etc. And I don't thing that's against the aims of the hobby. I wouldn't mind spending about ?50 on a machine if it was in decent (read: working) condition. I've successfully restored a reel to reel tape deck and I'm going to get myself a few MOS KIM-1s (one to keep going, the rest become parts donors if need be) and keep at least one running. I'm going to test and reform/replace the capacitors if necessary, and make sure the CPU/clock circuits/LED display/keyboard still work. And if the keyboard fails I'll get myself a Protolab membrane keypad kit and build a new one! -- Phil. http://www.philpem.f9.co.uk/ philpem@bigfoot.com PGP Key Fingerprint: 1FA6 6C7F A2FD BB15 84BF 4993 2B27 0628 E54E 33B1 From alex at linuxhacker.org Sun Jan 28 15:48:15 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <000801c0896f$90e3d780$c26a073e@papemjr> Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Still got the machine I learned to program on (a Sinclair ZX Spectrum +2A). Oh, the first machine I bought was one of those (before that I used my brother's VIC 20). It had the ROMs from a +3 (which had a disk drive) but the hardware of a +2 (which had a tape drive). I bought a drawing package once, which was available on a tape for +2s and a disk for +3s- I got the +2 version because I didn't have a disk drive, but the software didn't work because of some incompatibility between the software and the +3 ROMs. I also bought one of those thermal "bog roll" printers, only to find that it wouldn't interface to the I/O port on my machine (at least I managed to get a refund on that). I still have a +3 in a drawer somewhere, but absolutely no disks for it... -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Jan 28 16:02:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: <000801c0896f$90e3d780$c26a073e@papemjr> from "Philip Pemberton" at Jan 28, 1 09:16:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4484 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010128/48dd4ef2/attachment.ksh From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 16:42:12 2001 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PC7000 Message-ID: >Anybody have any comments about this machine? How was the screen >clarity? Well, as far as the screen goes, it's not anything to write home about, but I'm sure that there are worse looking screens out there. Then again, that could be just mine. Hope this helps. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. "Butterfly": Tandy Model 200, PDD, CCR-82 ____________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Jan 28 19:46:43 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: NeXT question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok...I'm having a bit of trouble networking my NeXT with other machines, specifically my Mac-clone. I have a piece of software on my Mac called Vicomsoft SurfDoubler and it acts as a gateway out to the 'net for other machines connected to it by way of ethernet. I generally use this to easily download files from the 'net directly to other machines and have set it up pretty easily using it's built-in DHCP server using both other Mac's and Window's machines. Today, after recoving from a hard disk crash on my NeXTstation I decided to load an older version of Ominweb and a few other programs. Unfortunately, I can't get the NeXT and Mac to talk to each other over the 10base-T ethernet link, using a twisted patch cable so I don't have to have a hub installed. It's pretty obvious that I don't know what I'm looking at as far as the NeXT setup. It's running NeXTstep 3.3 (Academic bundle with User & Developer, with Patch 2, and Enterprise Objects Framework 1.1). I'm also using a CD called 'NeXTstep Objectware, Summer 1995', which is full of 3rd party product demos, internet tools and drivers, which is where Omniweb came from. Does anyone have any ideas? BTW, the NeXTstation Color does fall under the 10-year rule for this list since it was introduced in 1990, though the version of the OS I'm running came out in '95. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Jan 28 20:37:40 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Datamaster and parts available References: Message-ID: <00c801c0899c$74104260$55e9b3d1@Smith.earthlink.net> I always thought that, by definition, a "Datamaster" was the all-in-one System/23 unit, model 5322. AFAIK, model 5324, with its separate monitor and CPU, while also sold as the System/23, was not markeged as a Datamaster. -W Merle K. Peirce wrote > Which model Datamaster, Rich? > > On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Richard A. Cini wrote: > > > Hello, all: > > > > I know that I posted this once before, but I'll make the offer again. I > > have a partially-working Datamaster for sale or trade. It consists of the > > Datamaster unit, lots of spare parts (including power supply, keyboard, and > > miscellaneous boards) and a few disks. There are no manuals or other > > paperwork. From owad at applefritter.com Sun Jan 28 20:36:27 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Looking for Appe II list prices Message-ID: <20010129023627.12135@mail.lafayette.edu> I'm looking for the original list prices for the following equipment. Does anybody happen to know any of them? Platinum Apple IIe Extened 80/comun text card Apple 5.25" drive (I think that's all it was called. A Unidisk price would be good enough) Apple 5.25" interface card Platinum Monitor IIe AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe Super Serial Card Apple Mouse IIe w/interface ImageWriter II Thanks! Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Jan 28 22:17:23 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: FS: HP plotter pens Message-ID: <3A74EED0.C30B5DA6@eoni.com> If any of you are using HP plotters, I came into a large stash of the long pens used on the Draftmaster 759x, Draftpro 757x, HP 758x and HP 7550 plotters. I've got sizes ranging from .25mm to .50mm and Black, Blue and Green inks (Just a few Red...) Most are for paper or vellum and are new in sealed (but well outdated) packages. $.75 ea + actual postage. Jim From red at bears.org Mon Jan 29 01:32:56 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Would anyone by chance have 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs > available? I'd like to finish filling out the RAM in my > NeXTstation. Unfortunately, the 4meg SIMM is the largest that I can > use even though it has 8 SIMM slots. Um. If it uses 72-pin SIMMs, it has only 2 banks (4 slots) and there's no reason you can't use larger SIMMs. Now, if it uses _30-pin_ SIMMs, your request makes more sense. In either case, I don't have any spare RAM to fit this machine. Sorry. (: ok r. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Jan 29 04:37:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Mystery Nubus quad SCSI card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a full length Nubus card with a bunch of neat looking stuff on it. NCR 53C720 Quad SCSI chip (4) SCSI connectors, internal (1 25 pin SE, 1 25 pin differential, plus one long weird, and 2 small pin connectors), and external a tiny centronics looking thing, plus a Din8. Looks to be about 1994, and says Fuji interface nubus board. I guess I will know more when I plug it into something, but it sure has me curious. I'm guessing something prepress. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 04:33:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Would anyone by chance have 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs >> available? I'd like to finish filling out the RAM in my >> NeXTstation. Unfortunately, the 4meg SIMM is the largest that I can >> use even though it has 8 SIMM slots. >If it uses 72-pin SIMMs, it has only 2 banks (4 slots) and there's no >reason you can't use larger SIMMs. Trust me, it's 8 slots of 72pin SIMMs. The early non-Turbo Color slabs had 8 slots while the later Turbo slabs had 4 slots. Also, I tried using standard non-parity double sided 8meg SIMMs in the machine and it didn't work. The only NeXT I've seen listed as supporting more than 32meg is the '040 Cube. Otherwise, as far as I know, 8meg 72pin SIMMs will only work in the Turbo's. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Jan 29 05:05:19 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes Message-ID: <01Jan29.110521gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:07:39 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > > Perhaps somebody could expain the aims of this hobby of ours. > Is it to : > > Obtain as many machines as possible without caring what they are Nope. > Obtain as many of particular types of 'interesting' (to you) machines Yup. > Getting (again) the machine that you 'used as a kid' and > enjoying those ancinet games again (say) Not really, since I was doing that anyway with emulators. > Getting machines that you dreamed of owning many years ago and could > never aford back then Definitely. > Getting machines that have particular hardware (or software) features > that you find interesting, whether or not you've ever heard of the > machine before Not originally, but that's happened over time once I've discovered that I *could*. I'm supposed to be sticking to home machines but I'm deviating from that path I think. > Preserving a piece of computer history 100% For me, at the end of the day cost isn't as important as saving a machine from whatever fate will befall it. Of course, I want that boxed Jupiter Ace or Lisa 1 as cheaply as possible, but if I have the funds and something like that becomes available then I'll buy it anyway. While its fab to have a collection like this I still want to turn it into a proper museum and educational facility once I get my head round the 'this might get stolen or damaged and its the only one I've got' thoughts. And find somewhere secure to put it all of course. There's bastards round here who'll steal anything that isn't bolted down regardless of whether there's anyone in the house because crims have more rights than victims, but that's another story. On a different tack, what's the group's thoughts about taxes etc? Should the tax people visit my site they might think I'm making a living from buying and selling machines and may want a little extra cash out of me despite the fact I can probably prove it's impossible to make real money out of this AND have a full time job and it really is a hobby.... -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0:OK, 0:1 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Jan 29 06:06:40 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:07:39 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell wrote: > Perhaps somebody could expain the aims of this hobby of ours. Is it to : > > Obtain as many machines as possible without caring what they are Not for me! > Obtain as many of particular types of 'interesting' (to you) machines Up to a point... but I'd rather swap identical duplicates for something fulfilling the requirements below: > Getting (again) the machine that you 'used as a kid' and enjoying those > ancinet games again (say) > > Getting machines that you dreamed of owning many years ago and could > never aford back then > > Getting machines that have particular hardware (or software) features > that you find interesting, whether or not you've ever heard of the > machine before > > Preserving a piece of computer history > > Programming a machine that is really simple enough to fully understand > > Repairing a machine that's built from parts you can get and understand > > Learning about the operation of a computer by understanding a processor > at gate level All of those! I got started by getting machines that have special features (PERQ portrait screen, Apple /// two-speed cursor keys, Apricot LCD-in-keyboard thingy). Now I have reached "critical mass", whereupon old computers arrive at my house by a kind of gravitational attraction. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Jan 29 06:25:55 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Machines I'm looking for... Message-ID: <53.1a22030.27a6bb53@aol.com> Is anyone seeing any of my posts or replys? I don't think they are going through for some reason.. -Linc. From jrice at texoma.net Mon Jan 29 06:34:11 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs References: Message-ID: <3A756343.9C3584E8@texoma.net> My Turbo Color (ADB model) NeXTstation has 4 72 pinn simm slots filled with 32mb FPM simms for 128mb total. I think I saw some earlier NeXT machines that took 8 30pin simms. Jeff Hellige wrote: > > >On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >> Would anyone by chance have 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs > >> available? I'd like to finish filling out the RAM in my > >> NeXTstation. Unfortunately, the 4meg SIMM is the largest that I can > >> use even though it has 8 SIMM slots. > >If it uses 72-pin SIMMs, it has only 2 banks (4 slots) and there's no > >reason you can't use larger SIMMs. > > Trust me, it's 8 slots of 72pin SIMMs. The early non-Turbo > Color slabs had 8 slots while the later Turbo slabs had 4 slots. > Also, I tried using standard non-parity double sided 8meg SIMMs in > the machine and it didn't work. The only NeXT I've seen listed as > supporting more than 32meg is the '040 Cube. Otherwise, as far as I > know, 8meg 72pin SIMMs will only work in the Turbo's. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -- ICQ 2286850 Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html Robotics Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/hobbies.html All pages under construction! From optimus at canit.se Sun Jan 28 20:26:47 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Altaircomputers.org down?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <907.429T2350T2066035optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Doug Salot wrote: >> Sort of -- it looks like his domain expired a couple months ago. But he >> has another one that points to the same site (don't ask how I know this): >> http://www.grocerybill.com/altair/ >Well, then I guess he can't really call his site "altaircomputers.org" >anymore now can he? >Here's a bitch that I'd like to address: if you put up a site comemorating >old computers, please try to give it a title other than the domain name. And please, choose your top domain carefully. .com doesn't mean "web site", it means commercial operation. Is your website commercial? Now, altaircomputers.com, that'd be an abomination (selling spares?). -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > well, maybe if it contained ChibiChibi-JarJar pairing.. Okay, so now I'm thinking about a threesome between ChibiChibi, Jar-Jar and Pikachu. You bastard. A. Jones From optimus at canit.se Sun Jan 28 20:21:04 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <487.429T200T2014253optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: > Would anyone by chance have 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs >available? I'd like to finish filling out the RAM in my >NeXTstation. Unfortunately, the 4meg SIMM is the largest that I can >use even though it has 8 SIMM slots. I'm actually surprised you can't find any. They, if any kind of SIMM, are as common as dirt. OTOH, I'll gladly trade for 4 MB 30-pin SIMMs, parity or not. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Jan 29 08:56:11 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Altaircomputers.org down?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010129084017.0309fde0@pc> At 09:47 AM 1/28/01 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >"altaircomputers.org" is a good case in point. It really isn't >"altaircomputers.org" anymore, is it? Now I gotta go and edit my >database. OK, Mr. Little Red Hen... Who decided to make the bread in the first place? >Calling yourself anything.com or anything.org is completely passe these >days anyway. Yup, we don't really need TLDs. We antique computer collectors wouldn't want to be seen as anything less than hip and trendy. Guess the soul patch has to go. Gee, Sellam, a few more years of this and you're going to be as cantankerous and/or imbecilic as those old coots on this list that you routinely lambast. What's an old coot but someone who rants *all the time*? - John From linc.fessenden at juno.com Mon Jan 29 09:23:17 2001 From: linc.fessenden at juno.com (Lincoln Fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: DecStation Help please! Message-ID: <386786037.980781800635.JavaMail.root@web694-wra.mail.com> I have a couple DEC Maxines (5000/33's) and I am desperately trying to install a virgin Ultrix 4.2 on them without any luck. Someone please help! I have the CD media for Ultrix 4.2 using a scsi drive that works to install on old Sparcstations so I am assuming it handles 512 sectoring. The cdrom drive works fine. The Ultrix 4.2 cd looks fine (an original). If you watch the boot messages on the machine it finds the cdrom drive on rz6, so.... I rebooted and at the prom, I try boot 3/rz6 and then boot 3/rz6/vmunix both without luck.. After each command the response is identical. The cdrom spins up for a minute and then stops. No further prompts, action, etc.. Anyone have any suggestions? -Linc From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Jan 29 09:45:52 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DAB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On a different tack, what's the group's thoughts about taxes etc? Should the > tax people visit my site they might think I'm making a living from buying > and selling machines and may want a little extra cash out of me despite the > fact I can probably prove it's impossible to make real money out of this AND > have a full time job and it really is a hobby.... There is a long-established tradition here in America wherein we take great difference with a revenuer's (taxman's) attempt to enter the premises. The tradition involves guns and dead taxmen. All kidding aside, the 4th amendment to our Constitution elucidates our intrinsic right to be safe and secure in our persons and property from unwarranted intrusion. In other words, a U.S. citizen is never required to admit a government agent unless the agent has a warrant, and while it may happen from time to time, I don't think that revenue agents typically ask for and receive warrants to enter a private residence. There are, however, some horror stories I could tell involving the U.S. Marshalls' Service who are able to perform warrantless searches, but they're looking for pirated software, not old iron. Regards, -dq From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Jan 29 10:37:49 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DAB@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010129113236.02fabcd0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Interesting question though -- "should the tax people visit my site they might think I'm making a living from buying and selling machines" -- what if the "site" in question is a web site? Can the revenooers use what they see on a web site against the owner? :-) -- Tony At 10:45 AM 1/29/2001 -0500, you wrote: > > On a different tack, what's the group's thoughts about taxes etc? Should >the > > tax people visit my site they might think I'm making a living from buying > > and selling machines and may want a little extra cash out of me despite >the > > fact I can probably prove it's impossible to make real money out of this >AND > > have a full time job and it really is a hobby.... > >There is a long-established tradition here in America wherein we >take great difference with a revenuer's (taxman's) attempt to >enter the premises. The tradition involves guns and dead taxmen. > >All kidding aside, the 4th amendment to our Constitution elucidates >our intrinsic right to be safe and secure in our persons and property >from unwarranted intrusion. In other words, a U.S. citizen is never >required to admit a government agent unless the agent has a warrant, >and while it may happen from time to time, I don't think that revenue >agents typically ask for and receive warrants to enter a private residence. > >There are, however, some horror stories I could tell involving the >U.S. Marshalls' Service who are able to perform warrantless searches, >but they're looking for pirated software, not old iron. > >Regards, >-dq From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 11:24:18 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines Message-ID: Sure, you could kludge something together, but I have no interest in doing so... Since I truly do intend to have a museum at some point, I wouldn't consider a kludged-together Terak to be something of museum quality.. Hell, if I just wanted it to work, I'd try to find out how standard the qbus backplane in it is, and from there you could perhaps make it into a normal 11/23, which would be useful since it has an 8" floppy. Thanks for the advice on the monitor and keyboard though, maybe it will help someone with different goals : ) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 29 12:48:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: WTB: MicroAce, CTM magazines In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Jan 29, 1 10:24:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1816 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010129/4739c5f8/attachment.ksh From menadeau at mediaone.net Mon Jan 29 13:56:01 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Looking for Appe II list prices References: <20010129023627.12135@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <145001c08a2d$880d2c60$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Tom; >From an Apple presskit dated 9/15/86: AppleColor Composite Monitor: $379 (platinum color, no IIe designation. Just says it's for all Apple II models) Apple 5.25 Drive: $299; controller kit: $69 I have more Apple press material, but will have to do more digging to find the other items. I'm pretty sure I have a press release on the ImageWriter II; not so sure about the other items. --Mike AppleColor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Owad" To: "Classic Computer" Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 9:36 PM Subject: Looking for Appe II list prices > I'm looking for the original list prices for the following equipment. > Does anybody happen to know any of them? > > Platinum Apple IIe > Extened 80/comun text card > Apple 5.25" drive (I think that's all it was called. A Unidisk price > would be good enough) > Apple 5.25" interface card > Platinum Monitor IIe > AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe > Super Serial Card > Apple Mouse IIe w/interface > ImageWriter II > > Thanks! > > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 15:18:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <487.429T200T2014253optimus@canit.se> References: <487.429T200T2014253optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I'm actually surprised you can't find any. They, if any kind of SIMM, are as >common as dirt. OTOH, I'll gladly trade for 4 MB 30-pin SIMMs, parity or not. It's just that I ran out of that size in the RAM that I have stashed here. In fact, with rebuilding various older Mac's and stuff for people, I've pretty much used up most of what I did have. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Jan 29 15:20:53 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Making an Atari 400/800 Basic cartridge EPROM type Message-ID: I seem to remember from the dark ages that the Atari cartridges could be made using a standard EPROM and ZIF socket and that there was an inverter on one leg of the EPROM. The guys that I knew who programmed EPROM's for missiles also made Atari cartridge copies. Somewhere I have a cigar box full of EPROM's of all of the common Atari 2600 games. I also have a piece of circuit board with a ZIF socket on it. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 15:22:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <3A756343.9C3584E8@texoma.net> References: <3A756343.9C3584E8@texoma.net> Message-ID: >My Turbo Color (ADB model) NeXTstation has 4 72 pinn simm slots filled >with 32mb FPM simms for 128mb total. I think I saw some earlier NeXT >machines that took 8 30pin simms. I've never had any of the ADB model Turbo's. That's cool that you can use more RAM in them though. Don't the official specs still list the max at 32meg? I've had two non-turbo Color slabs, both with 8 72pin SIMM slots and neither one would take any of the SIMMs above 4meg that I tried in them. Non-Turbo mono slabs used 30 pin SIMMs if i remember correctly. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 29 10:28:42 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1016.429T2100T10486221optimus@canit.se> Mark skrev: >On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 Jason McBrien wrote: >> >> 1 - The IIfx uses wacko 64-Bit (I think) SIMMs that aren't compatable with >> anything except a particular LaserWriter. These are VERY hard to find and >> expensive. >Some time ago, a seller on eBay mentioned in the item listing for some IIfx >SIMMs that they also work with Amiga accelerator cards made by GVP (Great >Valley Products). >Has anyone tried using IIfx SIMMs with a GVP card? (One which takes 64-pin >SIMMs, obviously.) I've sent a mail inquiring the hardware guy, he's having a go at another 64- pin adapter now. =) >While the connector may be the same, I'm sceptical that they are compatible; >a few years ago I tried an AST 64-pin SIMM in my GVP card unsuccessfully. What are those AST SIMMs used for anyway? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If you consistently take an antagonistic approach, however, people are going to start thinking you're from New York. :-) --Larry Wall to Dan Bernstein in <10187@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 18:19:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Color Classic mods In-Reply-To: <1016.429T2100T10486221optimus@canit.se> References: <1016.429T2100T10486221optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: It was just a matter of time, what with people shoehorning early PPC mainboards into the case of a Color Classic...well, someone has now done it with the G4 Cube mainboard! Me, I've taken the easier route and just popped a LC-575 mainboard into mine...no case mods needed for that one. Anyway, here's the story on the Color Classic G4... http://www.mac512.com/ccpmg4.htm Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 29 13:20:17 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <1016.429T2100T10486221optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <20010130002230.GMXT6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: 29 Jan 01 17:28:42 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: eBay Dash30fx > To: Mark > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I've sent a mail inquiring the hardware guy, he's having a go at another 64- > pin adapter now. =) Or if 98% of pins are standard in places, cut few traces and rewire? This is done for adapting generic 30 pins simms for few certain IBM machines. > > >While the connector may be the same, I'm sceptical that they are compatible; > >a few years ago I tried an AST 64-pin SIMM in my GVP card unsuccessfully. > > What are those AST SIMMs used for anyway? AST machines and queer machines that use 64pin simms! I have bunch of those little 64pin 1MB and rare few 4MB usually comes out of AST 486 bravo series cpu on a card types. 1. The # of chips on both 64pin and 72pin are same therefore 32bit per stick plus 1bit every byte of data for parity = 9 or 18, non parity 8 or 16 chips, except for some early 12 chip parity simms. 2. There's is no TTL chips anywhere on those AST 64pin simms and wasn't any non-standard DRAMs either. AST is bad as Compaq using oddball memory modules in all shapes on many early to mid 90's compaq machines. I think that IIfx 60ns or 53ns speed for dram due to 40 or hacked 50 MHz IIfx's? IBM is not *that* bad like this, 99% of time these machines they produced since the ps/2 series used standard types except 25/30 series (except make it work by this hack noted above) and few early to mid 90's used either standard or ECC in same machines. I'm not including those RS6000 series which is totally different animal to this topic. Cheers, Wizard From russ at rbcs.8m.com Mon Jan 29 18:29:36 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: ibm/lEX 4033-001 print server Message-ID: The unit posted earlier has been sold, on eBay. Just wanted to let anyone know that was thinking about it. From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 29 18:33:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <567.430T1500T934849optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>I'm actually surprised you can't find any. They, if any kind of SIMM, are as >>common as dirt. OTOH, I'll gladly trade for 4 MB 30-pin SIMMs, parity or >>not. > It's just that I ran out of that size in the RAM that I have >stashed here. In fact, with rebuilding various older Mac's and stuff >for people, I've pretty much used up most of what I did have. I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. Older Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Hackers do it with fewer instructions. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 19:20:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <567.430T1500T934849optimus@canit.se> References: <567.430T1500T934849optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. Older >Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) At this stage, I consider the likes of a Quadra 605 to be an older Mac. The 605 I put together for my sister-in-law who wanted a system for email because I could do it for nearly zero cost. I do have some of the Mac IIFX 64pin SIMMs around as well, though don't recall what size they are. Of course, what would be nice is if I came across a couple of 36meg 72pin SIMMs to stick in my PM 6100 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 29 19:40:52 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <567.430T1500T934849optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 30, 1 01:33:30 am" Message-ID: <200101300140.RAA11970@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. Older > Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) No, there are some 72-pin SIMM Macs. The 7100 comes to mind. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Insomniac dyslexic agnostic: "I stay up late wondering if there's a dog" --- From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Jan 29 14:59:07 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <200101300140.RAA11970@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <567.430T1500T934849optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 30, 1 01:33:30 am" Message-ID: <20010130020126.OEPP10080.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:40:52 -0800 (PST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. Older > > Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) > > No, there are some 72-pin SIMM Macs. The 7100 comes to mind. Actually that's later Macs. The earliest that do have 72 pin simms I can think of is LC III w/ 8MB which I have learning against TV stand to be used w/ BSD if I can not find 68882 rated for 25mhz FPU to use 68k-linux because I don't wish to buy apple's 7.1 for it. Mac parts wanted: Anyone got the 68882 25 MHz laying around for sale? Ditto to 68040 20mhz or 25 even double speed 40 or 50? That's to replace that lame 68LC040 in scuffy Centris 610 (same MB in Quadra 610, and hackable back and forth between two). Oh, looking for sick or alive 1.44MB FD superdrive? This FD is found in all LC series, 4xx, 5xx and 6xx that snaps into case and held via those funky cylinderal philips screws screwed onto FD in turn installed in holes or guides. Cheers, Wizard From liste at artware.qc.ca Mon Jan 29 20:05:42 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Sharp PC7000 In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010127152953.00b18f00@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: On 27-Jan-2001 Christian Fandt wrote: > Hey folks, who's got one of the above subject machines? I found one > over at the Salvation Army store. > > Looks very clean and complete: has the Operator's manual in a slipcase, > MSDOS manual (DOS v.2.1), keyboard, printer, vinyl slipcover, cables, > some floppies of s/w. They want $50 for it which is probably a little > high. Maybe I can negotiate it down to something better. Way to much. While that's a nice looking computer (I have a fondness for lunchbox style "portables") it is "worthless" in that you won't be able to run a "modern" OS on it. Offer to free up the wasted space it's occupying. :) Flame preventer: I know that one could do a lot of useful work/play with this computer (DOS, wordstar, kermit, telemate, Zork, Pirates!). It probably runs Xenix and Minix pretty well. -Philip From liste at artware.qc.ca Mon Jan 29 20:09:54 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: I was given a TI-99/4A this week end. Has clean and has power and teevee cables. Only has the Number Madness cartridge, however. Haven't turned it on yet, but i've played with the keyboard. It has a nice tactile feel, especially compared to the dross that passes as a keyboard nowadays Is this thing compatible w/ "period" joysticks (like the atari's used)? Any other interesting info on this model? -Philip From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 29 20:16:52 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <562.430T2600T1965929optimus@canit.se> Mark skrev: >On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 Jason McBrien wrote: >Some time ago, a seller on eBay mentioned in the item listing for some IIfx >SIMMs that they also work with Amiga accelerator cards made by GVP (Great >Valley Products). >Has anyone tried using IIfx SIMMs with a GVP card? (One which takes 64-pin >SIMMs, obviously.) I asked the hardware guy, and he said they wouldn't. Blasted Apple and GVP. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Idealismus ist die F?higkeit, die Menschen so zu sehen, wie sie sein k?nnten, wenn sie nicht so w?ren, wie sie sind. --- Curt Goetz From optimus at canit.se Mon Jan 29 20:36:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <200101300140.RAA11970@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. Older > > Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) > > No, there are some 72-pin SIMM Macs. The 7100 comes to mind. Yes, but these aren't old. I've got some 72-pinners, too, namely a Centris and some LCs, but they are far from old. Less than ten years, even. =) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Jan 29 21:44:32 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DAB@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010129224432.3c4fdaf0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:45 AM 1/29/01 -0500, you Doug Q: >> On a different tack, what's the group's thoughts about taxes etc? Should >the >> tax people visit my site they might think I'm making a living from buying >> and selling machines and may want a little extra cash out of me despite >the >> fact I can probably prove it's impossible to make real money out of this >AND >> have a full time job and it really is a hobby.... > >There is a long-established tradition here in America wherein we >take great difference with a revenuer's (taxman's) attempt to >enter the premises. The tradition involves guns and dead taxmen. > >All kidding aside, the 4th amendment to our Constitution elucidates >our intrinsic right to be safe and secure in our persons and property >from unwarranted intrusion. In other words, a U.S. citizen is never >required to admit a government agent unless the agent has a warrant, >and while it may happen from time to time, I don't think that revenue >agents typically ask for and receive warrants to enter a private residence. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Obviously you've never dealt with the IRS!!!!! They may not "enter" your residence but they'll sure as hell padlock it shut until they get what THEY want! As far as they're concerned you have about the same rights that the Jews did in Nazi Germany! Joe From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Jan 29 21:06:26 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <3a.10245238.27a789b2@aol.com> In a message dated 1/29/01 9:23:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, liste@artware.qc.ca writes: << I was given a TI-99/4A this week end. Has clean and has power and teevee cables. Only has the Number Madness cartridge, however. Haven't turned it on yet, but i've played with the keyboard. It has a nice tactile feel, especially compared to the dross that passes as a keyboard nowadays Is this thing compatible w/ "period" joysticks (like the atari's used)? Any other interesting info on this model? >> i think everyone has a ti computer. they were so popular when they could be had for <$100. even though an atari joystick plugs in, it will not work right. There is an adaptor that lets atari joysticks plug in, but not sure what it did, probably just changed a few pinouts. From scm at ctel.net Mon Jan 29 21:11:34 2001 From: scm at ctel.net (Stacy & Becky Morang) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: Wang Manuals Message-ID: <3A7630E6.238C239B@ctel.net> I have a small selection of WANG VS manuals that my employer has decided to pitch. If you're looking for one, drop me a note and I'll see if it's in the collection. If there's interest, I'll take the time sometime to get a list of titles together. - Stacy -- Stacy & Becky Morang, scmNOSPAM@ctel.net From foo at siconic.com Mon Jan 29 20:24:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:26 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > I was given a TI-99/4A this week end. Has clean and has power and teevee > cables. Only has the Number Madness cartridge, however. Haven't > turned it on yet, but i've played with the keyboard. It has a nice > tactile feel, especially compared to the dross that passes as a keyboard > nowadays > > Is this thing compatible w/ "period" joysticks (like the atari's used)? > Any other interesting info on this model? Nope, it uses it's own proprietary controllers that are really hard to find for some reason. You'd think there would be as many out there as TI 99/4a's themselves but apparently they weren't sold with the unit. Uses a TI 9900 (16-bit) microprocessor. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Jan 29 22:02:36 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A References: Message-ID: <002801c08a71$7b6f4080$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> There was also a beige all plastic model that came later. Cheaper to make. These seem a bit more rare then the silver/black ones....here anyways... A fast 16 bit CPU but a weird way of accessing memory made the thing really slow IIRC I think it was a costly & painfull venture for TI... I am still looking for the expansion box / floppies for these...these are rarer because so expensive back then... The computers alone are very common... I have accumulated too many and some will go in garbage at next inventory/cleaning...Ill keep the "inbox" ones... My 2 cents... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:09 PM Subject: TI-99/4A > I was given a TI-99/4A this week end. Has clean and has power and teevee > cables. Only has the Number Madness cartridge, however. Haven't > turned it on yet, but i've played with the keyboard. It has a nice > tactile feel, especially compared to the dross that passes as a keyboard > nowadays > > Is this thing compatible w/ "period" joysticks (like the atari's used)? > Any other interesting info on this model? > > -Philip From Glenatacme at aol.com Mon Jan 29 22:04:34 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes Message-ID: <67.f0ac656.27a79752@aol.com> > >All kidding aside, the 4th amendment to our Constitution elucidates > >our intrinsic right to be safe and secure in our persons and property > >from unwarranted intrusion. In other words, a U.S. citizen is never > >required to admit a government agent unless the agent has a warrant, > >and while it may happen from time to time, I don't think that revenue > >agents typically ask for and receive warrants to enter a private residence. > > Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Obviously you've never dealt with the IRS!!!!! They may > not "enter" your residence but they'll sure as hell padlock it shut until > they get what THEY want! As far as they're concerned you have about the > same rights that the Jews did in Nazi Germany! This is no malarkey. An IRS data-entry error credited our tax payment to someone else's account, and the IRS immediately froze our bank accounts. If not for the kind intervention of our Congresswoman, Corrine Brown, we probably would have had to close up shop. Warrant? Who needs one? Glen 0/0 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 29 23:38:32 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 30, 1 03:36:36 am" Message-ID: <200101300538.VAA10964@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. > > > Older Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) > > No, there are some 72-pin SIMM Macs. The 7100 comes to mind. > Yes, but these aren't old. I've got some 72-pinners, too, namely a Centris > and some LCs, but they are far from old. Less than ten years, even. =) Pedant. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If two wrongs don't make a right, try three. -- Laurence J. Peter ---------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Jan 29 23:42:15 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Jan 29, 1 06:24:51 pm" Message-ID: <200101300542.VAA11750@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Nope, it uses it's own proprietary controllers that are really hard to > find for some reason. You'd think there would be as many out there as TI > 99/4a's themselves but apparently they weren't sold with the unit. If the TI uses a DSUB-9 connector (I must be the only one here who doesn't have one), I wonder if the Tomy Tutor joysticks would work. I know TT joysticks are definitely not Atari compatible -- I nearly killed my C64 with one (remember that the joystick lines go right into the PLA, the glass jaw of the C64). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I am the mother of all things, and all things must wear a sweater. --------- From donm at cts.com Tue Jan 30 00:13:36 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Computer Stuff Collecting Dust - Updated (fwd) Message-ID: Considering all of the chat about SIMMs, this may be of interest. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Path: thoth.cts.com!ragnarok.cts.com!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail From: "PJC" Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.other.misc,misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc,pa.forsale,pgh.forsale Subject: FS: Computer Stuff Collecting Dust - Updated Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:25:41 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 88 Message-ID: <94q27v$7oi$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.5d.d8 X-Server-Date: 25 Jan 2001 20:27:43 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Xref: thoth.cts.com misc.forsale.computers.other.misc:15865 misc.forsale.computers.pc-specific.misc:20619 pa.forsale:15852 pgh.forsale:15884 This is a stack of stuff I have collecting dust. Prices are negotiable on everything, no REASONABLE offers will be ignored and I will guarantee anything you get works. If you want everything, its yours for the right price. Memory ----------------------- Stack of 30 pin simms Stack of 4MB 72 pin simms Stack of 486 Cache chips Pair of 8MB (16MB) HP Apollo Memory Pair of 32MB (64MB) IBM 60ns EDO SDRAM stick of 64MB IBM ECC PC100 Hard Drives ----------------------- Maxtot 3.6GB IDE HDD Conner 200MB IDE HDD Western Digital 4.2GB IDE HDD Sound Cards ----------------------- Diamond SonicImpact A3D PCI sound card Aztech 16 bit ISA Sound Card Systems ----------------------- Unisys DX2-66 w/ 1MB Video, Sound, Floppy, NIC, HDD Unisys DX2-66 w/ 1MB Video, Sound, Floppy, NIC, Scsi HDD, Scsi CDROM Printers ----------------------- HP DeskJet 400 Color Inkjet HP DeskJet 500 Color Inkjet Canon BJC-2000 Color Inkjet HP color and B&W Catridges Mouse ----------------------- Genius NetMouse Serial MicroInnovations 4D (2 wheels) Scroll Mouse PS/2 Memorex PS/2 PB PS/2 Misc ----------------------- Dead (?) Ricoh Scsi CDRW Dead (?) PII-400MHz CPUs PB ISA FM Radio Card NCR 53C400 ISA Scsi Card Symbios SYM20403 ISA Scsi Card Smart N Friendly CDROM Caddy Umax Astra 1220P flatbed scanner Zenith Serial Terminal w/ Keyboard Pentium 75MHz CPU Socket 370 <--> Slot 1 Adapter ATX Backplates Floppy adapters Active EXT. Terminator Cent<-->DB25 scsi cable Centronics F <--> HD50 adapter 4 connector internal scsi cable DB25M <--> DB25F cable DB25M <--> DB25M cable DB25M <--> DB9F Modem cable 15' CrossoverCable 50' Cat5 Cabling 3 ps/2 mouse adapters 10baseT T connectors 10baseT terminators DB25F <--> DB9M adapter serial port and parallel port internal ribbon cable PS/2 mouse internal cable (5 pin) Sun Sparc Lunchbox stand PJC -- end of forwarded message -- From mwp at acm.org Tue Jan 30 00:27:50 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A References: <200101300542.VAA11750@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <001601c08a85$c4e9e440$0200a8c0@zeus> Sure enough, there is. The pinouts for the Atari joystick -> TI-99 joystick port adapter are in the TI-99 FAQ at http://www.99er.net/tifaq.html --Mike From mwp at acm.org Tue Jan 30 00:25:56 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A References: <200101300542.VAA11750@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c08a85$813c73c0$0200a8c0@zeus> The TI-99 joysticks have two joysticks on one 9 pin connector. Wico sold an adapter with one female 9 pin connector Y-d to two male 9 pin connectors that would allow the use of regular Atari joysticks. I imagine there's a schematic of the adapter available with a bit of searching. --Mike From archer at topnow.com Tue Jan 30 00:42:11 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A References: <002801c08a71$7b6f4080$2300a8c0@gamerclaude> Message-ID: <3A766243.AF5C4A47@topnow.com> "Claude.W" wrote: > > There was also a beige all plastic model that came later. Cheaper to make. > These seem a bit more rare then the silver/black ones....here anyways... > > A fast 16 bit CPU but a weird way of accessing memory made the thing really > slow IIRC Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard the 99/4A suffered something of an unfair rap for being slow due to the fact that its TI BASIC was dreadfully inefficient and sloppy, and that little or no blame for its slowness rested on the actual CPU or hardware. (Windoze users may spot a parallel here.) ;) The TMS 9900 CPU actually used a "window" in RAM as its register space, with an internal pointer register to locate its base address. This was actually a great idea at the time, because CPU cycles were long enough back then it made no difference whether you stored temporary values in internal registers or external RAM, as either could get you your data in the 1 cycle time available. (And interrupt latency can be really short if you can make a "fresh" register bank with one register load!) Most CPUs like the 8080 had barely enough registers (and special-purpose ones at that), so it was an advantage to use the wide-open RAM space for storage instead of doing a lot of register-shuttling XCHG-type stuff working with a tiny register set. It's one of the reasons that 6502 code density was so high, despite having obvious holes in the instruction set, because zero-page was effectively 256 byte registers and/or 128 16-bit pointers, indexing with them with two byte instructions. And why Z80 added indexing and extra register banks -- they were sorely needed. (/me - 8080 and 6502 programmer from way back. Talk to me about XCHG, PCHL, XTHL, and all kinds of neat tricks. It was fun but despite, not because of the CPU architecture.) Of course, modern RISC goes back to the load/store, many on-chip register model, but isn't it interesting that Berkley's SPARC uses register windows much like the TI does? -- Ross From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 30 07:13:12 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <007b01c08abf$b5a85b30$bd799a8d@ajp166> From: Cameron Kaiser >If the TI uses a DSUB-9 connector (I must be the only one here who doesn't >have one), I wonder if the Tomy Tutor joysticks would work. I know TT >joysticks are definitely not Atari compatible -- I nearly killed my C64 with >one (remember that the joystick lines go right into the PLA, the glass jaw >of the C64). Atari joysticks may work with the TI save for connector. The ti joystick is only an array of contacts in PARALLEL with the keyboard contacts and there is no logic inside. A common problem is the TI version of the joysticks have a poor contact life so bad ones are good for the plugs and wires. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 30 07:09:47 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <007a01c08abf$af40a590$bd799a8d@ajp166> From: Claude.W > >A fast 16 bit CPU but a weird way of accessing memory made the thing really >slow IIRC It had the potential of being a significant first 16 bitter. The muxing of the bus down to 8bits and really cost in speed. >I think it was a costly & painfull venture for TI... Ti was infamous for that. >I am still looking for the expansion box / floppies for these...these are >rarer because so expensive back then... Yes, but there was an aftermarket that was significant historically. >I have accumulated too many and some will go in garbage at next >inventory/cleaning...Ill keep the "inbox" ones... NOTE: the video chip is extinct and same for a few other bits like the GROMS so even if you strip them for the boards there are people that might want them just for that. Allison > >My 2 cents... > >Claude >Canuk Computer Collector >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 9:09 PM >Subject: TI-99/4A > > >> I was given a TI-99/4A this week end. Has clean and has power and teevee >> cables. Only has the Number Madness cartridge, however. Haven't >> turned it on yet, but i've played with the keyboard. It has a nice >> tactile feel, especially compared to the dross that passes as a keyboard >> nowadays >> >> Is this thing compatible w/ "period" joysticks (like the atari's used)? >> Any other interesting info on this model? >> >> -Philip > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 30 07:29:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <007c01c08ac0$c3108e90$bd799a8d@ajp166> From: Ross Archer > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard the 99/4A suffered something of >an unfair rap for being slow due to the fact that its TI BASIC was >dreadfully inefficient and sloppy, and that little or no blame for its >slowness rested on the actual CPU or hardware. (Windoze >users may spot a parallel here.) >;) Partially correct. there were many issues. One the 9900 is 16bit wide data bus demuxed to 8bit (costs a lot of cycles!, penalty 1), it's run at less than maximum speed for the time and BASIC {internal} was interpreted as an end language {penalty 2} and the BASIC interpreter was interpreted {penalty 3}. Those things really hurt speed. The other side was it did have one of the better from a capability standpoint Basics in the standard console. >The TMS 9900 CPU actually used a "window" in RAM as its register space, >with an internal pointer register to locate its base address. This was >actually a great idea at the time, because CPU cycles were long enough >back then it made no difference whether you stored temporary values in >internal registers or external RAM, as either could get you your data in >the 1 cycle time available. Actually many of the older DEC hardware also used part fo ram to implement the registers including early PDP11, DEC-10s and previous machines. The idea was not new and was to save logic in the CPU as FlipFlops (memory) were costly in hardware back then and even in late 70s were costly on silicon. The other factor is the 9900 was a single chip recreation of the TI990 mini (not unlike like the 6100{pdp-8}, LSI-11 and DG MicroNova). >(And interrupt latency can be really short if you can make a "fresh" >register bank with one register load!) The ability to context switch fast was one of the strong points. Compared to Z80 or 8086 it was a nicer cpu to program save for the 32KW memory limitation. In many respects it was more similar to the minis like PDP-11 or Nova than the micros of the time. It was rich in general registers, Addressing modes and IO. I have a Technico Super starter board and it runs the TI9900 at 4mhz with 16bit wide memeory and rom really fast compared to the Z80 (comparison made on both machines I still have from 1979!). I picked up the TI99/4a and was sadly disappointed save for the bundle of really good and inexpensive software for it. Still, it plays a mean game of Parsec!!! Allison From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 30 07:41:11 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DBA@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Obviously you've never dealt with the IRS!!!!! They may > not "enter" your residence but they'll sure as hell padlock it shut until > they get what THEY want! As far as they're concerned you have about the > same rights that the Jews did in Nazi Germany! Actually, I have. In 1986, when I filed for Chapter 13, they sent me a letter saying I hadn't filed for 1985 and 1986 and owed an estimated $11,000 in back taxes. I wrote back saying, it was true, I hadn't filed for 1985, *yet*, but would do so now as I expected a refund. Additionally, I sent them photocopies of the 1986 filing & refund check they didn't seem to know about. And human engeineering has yet to create the lock that can keep me out of my house. Regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 30 07:43:08 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DBB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Obviously you've never dealt with the IRS!!!!! They may > > not "enter" your residence but they'll sure as hell padlock it shut until > > they get what THEY want! As far as they're concerned you have about the > > same rights that the Jews did in Nazi Germany! > > This is no malarkey. An IRS data-entry error credited our tax payment to > someone else's account, and the IRS immediately froze our bank accounts. If > not for the kind intervention of our Congresswoman, Corrine Brown, we > probably would have had to close up shop. > > Warrant? Who needs one? This is very quickly getting out of hand. My comments were intended to deal with the issue of entry into my home, and nothing more. Regards to all, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Jan 30 07:47:01 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DBC@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Interesting question though -- "should the tax people visit my site they > might think I'm making a living from buying and selling machines" -- what > if the "site" in question is a web site? Can the revenooers use what they > see on a web site against the owner? :-) Web sites currently don't enjoy the protection they should. If you painted a picture of Superman on your bedroom wall, because you like Superman and want people who come to your bedroom to know you like Superman, that's fair use doctrine. If you put a picture of Superman on your web site, and DC Comics sees it, you'll get a cease-and-desist letter from DC lawyers. And if you don't comply, you're in court. That's because the law isn't making distinctions between corporate and personal/private web sites, but it should. My personal home page is a virtual bedroom wall. Enough of that, we're swinging way off topic again. -dq From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 08:13:59 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Please help identify S-100 boards Message-ID: Hello all, I just obtained three S-100 boards that I thought were floppy controllers, but on inspection, may be something altogether different. I have no documentation on these boards, so here's the description: All three are marked "DYSAN (c) 1982" Two are marked "Wear Tester Cert. Bd." One is marked "Model V TrackWriter Certifier Sub." All three have 34-pin and 50-pin connectors, and all three look to be the same PCB layout, but with different components present or absent, and slightly different silkscreenings. For example, the two "Wear Tester" boards have ByteDAC chips in two sockets, but the "Model V" has those sockets empty. Most of the other chips on the boards are either standard "74" logic, or Op-Amps, or the aforementioned ByteDAC chips. All three also have a National LH0032CG in a can (don't know if that's significant or not). If anyone can identify these boards, or more importantly provide documentation (including schematics), I would surely appreciate it! I am willing to trade $$$ for information... Thanks! Rich B. P.S. I'm a digest subscriber, so I will not reply immediately if you send to the list.... From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Jan 30 09:57:22 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) Message-ID: <01Jan30.155723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > From: Alex Holden > Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > > (Speccy +2A) > Oh, the first machine I bought was one of those (before that I used my > brother's VIC 20). It had the ROMs from a +3 (which had a > disk drive) but > the hardware of a +2 (which had a tape drive). That was the +2B wasn't it? I know my +2B does things my +2A doesn't, like have a RAM drive and the like. > I still have a +3 in a drawer somewhere, but absolutely no > disks for it... Would you like a Vic-20 to play with again then? :) -------------- > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:02:57 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Machines I'm looking for... > > I can see the point in having one of each type of machine, > having spares, > having examples of all the major revisions, etc. But there has to be > _some_ difference between them in general. *grin*. My ZX81 stack wins on this point because they're all in different packaging, except the 2 kits! Can't say the same for Spectrums though, but when someone's got a mint boxed one for a fiver I can never say no! Plus they're good for trades. > But in my case the first disk-based micro I ever used was an > RML380Z at > school. So when I saw such a machine at a radio rally, I bought it, > partly for nostalgic reasons. Heh. Me too, which makes you the same age as me. I hope you don't *feel* as old as me though :o) --------------------- > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:23:17 -0500 (EST) > From: Lincoln Fessenden > Subject: DecStation Help please! > > boot 3/rz6/vmunix > both without luck.. After each command the response is > identical. The > cdrom spins up for a minute and then stops. No further > prompts, action, > etc.. > > Anyone have any suggestions? You need to put it in quotes - "3/rz6/vmunix" as it's uppercasing it for you. ----------- > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:37:49 -0500 > From: Tony Eros > Subject: RE: Collecting and taxes > > Interesting question though -- "should the tax people visit > my site they > might think I'm making a living from buying and selling > machines" -- what > if the "site" in question is a web site? Can the revenooers > use what they > see on a web site against the owner? :-) It was the website I meant actually - they'll see a list of the collection and also some machines for sale or trade and think 'aha'..... ------------ -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jan 30 10:07:42 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #499 In-Reply-To: <200101292120.PAA12630@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:46:43 -0500 >From: Jeff Hellige >Subject: NeXT question > > Ok...I'm having a bit of trouble networking my NeXT with >other machines, specifically my Mac-clone.... >Unfortunately, I can't get the NeXT and Mac to talk >to each other over the 10base-T ethernet link, using a twisted patch >cable so I don't have to have a hub installed. ... >I'm also using a CD >called 'NeXTstep Objectware, Summer 1995', which is full of 3rd party >product demos, internet tools and drivers, which is where Omniweb >came from. Does anyone have any ideas? Jeff, I've got a very similar setup. NeXT '040 cube, NS3.3 w/Y2k patches, crossover ethernet cable to a Mac Powerbook 3400 running MacOS 8.1. The NeXT will respond the Mac *if* the Mac is already connected and running when the NeXT boots. Of course the Mac has to be set up for TCP/IP to the ethernet port, etc. I usually hit the NeXT with Fetch 3.0.3 from the Mac first, but I have also succeeded by firing up CAPer on the NeXT first then looking in Chooser..Appleshare on the Mac. The NeXT setup is the same as it was in my office, on an ethernet internet hookup, so it's possible there are some settings in there not the same as yours. For example, during the NeXT boot process, I get some message about "not being able to find a server ... hit c to continue or see my administrator" (or similar) and have to hit c to continue. If that's the problem, email me direct and I'll post the NeXT Networking setup. http://www.peak.org/next/apps/internet/www/OmniWeb/ for a more recent version? But one step at a time, I guess. >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:33:53 -0500 >From: Jeff Hellige >Subject: Re: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs > >.... >The only NeXT I've seen listed as >supporting more than 32meg is the '040 Cube. Otherwise, as far as I >know, 8meg 72pin SIMMs will only work in the Turbo's. True as far as I know. My 040 non-turbo Cube has 16 30-pin slots, all currently stuffed with 4M simms for a total of 64M. >Date: 29 Jan 01 03:21:04 +0100 >From: "Iggy Drougge" >Subject: Re: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs > >...OTOH, I'll gladly trade for 4 MB 30-pin SIMMs, parity or not. http://www.sur-tech.com/cgi/page?menu,missim I don't know if this is the best price, but I've dealt with Christian before and it was a delight. "Will this drive work in my NeXT?" "Probably, but hang on a second - I'll just pull another NeXT off the shelf, open it up, plug in the drive, format it, write to and read from it ... yep, seems to work. You want it?" *That's* what I call service! >Date: 29 Jan 01 03:26:47 +0100 >From: "Iggy Drougge" >Subject: Re: Altaircomputers.org down?? > >Okay, so now I'm thinking about a threesome between ChibiChibi, >Jar-Jar and Pikachu. You bastard. > A. Jones How can one put a price on jewels like this? - Mark From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Jan 30 10:22:42 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Beetle-Net Message-ID: Manual transfer of data was the only way to go in the "old days". There was bike-net also. I used to take my 800 bpi tapes over to the computer room and knock on the back door, they would sneak them in. The official way was they logged in tapes twice a day, slow turn around. There was a slight risk of bike accident especially if I was not looking, perhaps distracted by scenery :) The risk with Beetle-Net was that if you left the top down some wacko would walk off with your tape. One of my fellow students came back to his car to find the tape unspooled down the hill, somebody stood on one end and rolled the reel down the hill. We tried manually re-rolling the tape and decided there was to much dirt and grime on it. Later in the 80's I held the local record for awhile, I carried 10 LMSI 12" 2GB optical disks from one end of the hospital to the other, they had planned on doing a network transfer via ftp. The sneaker was faster. 20GB/10 minutes = 2 GB/minute in 1985. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Jan 30 10:27:21 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <200101251542.JAA49362@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:38:03 -0500 >From: "Jason McBrien" >Subject: Re: eBay Dash30fx > ... >1 - The IIfx uses wacko 64-Bit (I think) SIMMs that aren't compatable with >anything except a particular LaserWriter. These are VERY hard to find and >expensive. http://www.sur-tech.com/cgi/page?menu,macsim Same comments as my last post, where I forgot to get the subject line right, about the proprietor - he's great. - Mark From vcf at siconic.com Tue Jan 30 10:10:45 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: IBM PC needs new home Message-ID: Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: Jjentrps@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:55:14 EST From: Jjentrps@aol.com Subject: (no subject) i have a ibm personal computer 5150 with monitor and keyboard and disks in mint condition, how would i donate this computer without any shipping costs? --- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From alex at linuxhacker.org Tue Jan 30 12:39:13 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) In-Reply-To: <01Jan30.155723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Adrian Graham wrote: > That was the +2B wasn't it? I know my +2B does things my +2A doesn't, like > have a RAM drive and the like. It definitely said +2A on the case, but I think it did have a RAM drive actually... I sold it about seven years ago to somebody who wanted to use it to learn to touch type. > Would you like a Vic-20 to play with again then? :) I still have my Brother's original one. Apparently he pre-ordered it before the VIC 20 actually arrived in the UK, so it must be one of the earliest ones. I think one or two of the keys are broken and the modulator cable is a bit dodgy, but apart from that it still worked the last time I tried it (about two years ago IIRC). We never had a tape drive for it, so the only way to do anything with it was to type Basic in by hand. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Tue Jan 30 13:01:26 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) References: <01Jan30.155723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <00ba01c08aef$132ff220$0101010a@pentium2> Adrian Graham wrote: > > (Speccy +2A) > > Oh, the first machine I bought was one of those (before that I used my > > brother's VIC 20). It had the ROMs from a +3 (which had a > > disk drive) but > > the hardware of a +2 (which had a tape drive). > > That was the +2B wasn't it? I know my +2B does things my +2A doesn't, like > have a RAM drive and the like. You can tell the difference by the colour of the machine. The +2A was grey, while the +2B was black. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Amiga, Windows, Mac, and Linux user | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress Documentation Project | Team Amiga "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Jan 30 13:10:34 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Hardware Emulation (was Re: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) In-Reply-To: References: <01Jan30.155723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010130110640.01975fc8@208.226.86.10> One of the 'toys' I recently purchased is an eval board with the Xilinx Spartan II 200K gate FPGA on it. My plans for this are classic computer emulation. (there is already a PDP-8 VHDL description floating around and I'm looking at doing one for the PDP-5, PDP-11, and PDP-12). But this board includes bits that let you drive a VGA display with it if you choose and it has PS/2 ports etc that you can also use. So I figured wouldn't it be cool to actually try doing "new" Atari 2600 hardware or something like that? It should be pretty easy to design a PONG equivalent game, the original was all TTL gates anyway. All I need it another hobby I don't have time for but it helps motivate me to learn the tools if I've got a project to work on. --Chuck From george_moraes at lakelabs.com Tue Jan 30 13:38:44 2001 From: george_moraes at lakelabs.com (george_moraes@lakelabs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Hardware Emulation (was Re: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010130110640.01975fc8@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A6693A4000094C9@mail01.san.yahoo.com> Hi there ... -- Original Message -- >One of the 'toys' I recently purchased is an eval board with the Xilinx > >Spartan II 200K gate FPGA on it. My plans for this are classic computer > >emulation. (there is already a PDP-8 VHDL description floating around and > Do you know the link ?????? I always wanted to do that !!!! Excellent Idea.... >I'm looking at doing one for the PDP-5, PDP-11, and PDP-12). But this board > >includes bits that let you drive a VGA display with it if you choose and >it >has PS/2 ports etc that you can also use. So I figured wouldn't it be cool > >to actually try doing "new" Atari 2600 hardware or something like that? >It >should be pretty easy to design a PONG equivalent game, the original was > >all TTL gates anyway. All I need it another hobby I don't have time for >but >it helps motivate me to learn the tools if I've got a project to work on. > >--Chuck > > Definitely its a wonderful hobby .... :-) Regards. George. From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Tue Jan 30 13:59:25 2001 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8EAA@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> I always thought the TMS9900 was a neat chip (having a PDP-10 background may have influenced me :-) Having the register set show up in memory gave me a nice warm nostalgic feeling. I wouldn't blame the poor performance of the 99/4A on the CPU. The architecture had a lot of nifty things in it. Most of the blame for the poor performance of the 99/4A falls on the low-end save-every-penny-you-can design criteria for the machine. I ordered the technical manual on the 99/4A from TI... What I saw in the manual made me gag... aside from a very small amount of memory actually on the system bus, any add-on RAM was accessed _serially_ (i.e. 1 bit at a time) via what TI called a "CRU" interface (basically a high speed serial port) I believe we can all appreciate the crippling effect on any machine's performance when the bulk of it's memory is only available through a 1-bit serial interface. BTW, I also had the technico board... a really neat product that never quite took off. :-( > -----Original Message----- > From: ajp166 [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 8:30 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: TI-99/4A > > > From: Ross Archer > > > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard the 99/4A suffered > something of > >an unfair rap for being slow due to the fact that its TI BASIC was > >dreadfully inefficient and sloppy, and that little or no > blame for its > >slowness rested on the actual CPU or hardware. (Windoze > >users may spot a parallel here.) >;) > > Partially correct. there were many issues. One the 9900 is > 16bit wide > data bus demuxed to 8bit (costs a lot of cycles!, penalty 1), > it's run at > less than maximum speed for the time and BASIC {internal} was > interpreted as an end language {penalty 2} and the BASIC interpreter > was interpreted {penalty 3}. > > Those things really hurt speed. The other side was it did have one of > the better from a capability standpoint Basics in the > standard console. > > >The TMS 9900 CPU actually used a "window" in RAM as its > register space, > >with an internal pointer register to locate its base > address. This was > >actually a great idea at the time, because CPU cycles were > long enough > >back then it made no difference whether you stored temporary > values in > >internal registers or external RAM, as either could get you > your data in > >the 1 cycle time available. > > > Actually many of the older DEC hardware also used part fo ram to > implement the registers including early PDP11, DEC-10s and previous > machines. The idea was not new and was to save logic in the CPU > as FlipFlops (memory) were costly in hardware back then and even in > late 70s were costly on silicon. The other factor is the 9900 was > a single chip recreation of the TI990 mini (not unlike like the > 6100{pdp-8}, LSI-11 and DG MicroNova). > > >(And interrupt latency can be really short if you can make a "fresh" > >register bank with one register load!) > > The ability to context switch fast was one of the strong points. > Compared > to Z80 or 8086 it was a nicer cpu to program save for the 32KW memory > limitation. In many respects it was more similar to the minis like > PDP-11 > or Nova than the micros of the time. It was rich in general > registers, > Addressing modes and IO. > > I have a Technico Super starter board and it runs the TI9900 at 4mhz > with 16bit wide memeory and rom really fast compared to the Z80 > (comparison made on both machines I still have from 1979!). > I picked up > the TI99/4a and was sadly disappointed save for the bundle of > really good and inexpensive software for it. Still, it plays > a mean game > of > Parsec!!! > > Allison > From tony.eros at machm.org Tue Jan 30 14:03:47 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Hardware Emulation (was Re: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010130110640.01975fc8@208.226.86.10> References: <01Jan30.155723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010130150249.00a821e0@mail.njd.concentric.com> At 11:10 AM 1/30/2001 -0800, you wrote: >One of the 'toys' I recently purchased is an eval board with the Xilinx >Spartan II 200K gate FPGA on it. My plans for this are classic computer >emulation. (there is already a PDP-8 VHDL description floating around and >I'm looking at doing one for the PDP-5, PDP-11, and PDP-12). But this >board includes bits that let you drive a VGA display with it if you choose >and it has PS/2 ports etc that you can also use. So I figured wouldn't it >be cool to actually try doing "new" Atari 2600 hardware or something like >that? It should be pretty easy to design a PONG equivalent game, the >original was all TTL gates anyway. All I need it another hobby I don't >have time for but it helps motivate me to learn the tools if I've got a >project to work on. > >--Chuck > > Chuck - Do you know where I could find a copy of the PDP-8 VHDL description you mentioned? I'd like to play with FPGA as well. -- Tony From russ at rbcs.8m.com Tue Jan 30 14:21:54 2001 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: ibm/lEX 4033-001 print server Message-ID: The unit posted earlier has been sold, on eBay. Just wanted to let anyone know that was thinking about it. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 30 14:55:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <00b801c08b00$1cd8e050$bd799a8d@ajp166> From: Corda Albert J DLVA >I saw in the manual made me gag... aside from a very small amount >of memory actually on the system bus, any add-on RAM was >accessed _serially_ (i.e. 1 bit at a time) via what TI called >a "CRU" interface (basically a high speed serial port) I >believe we can all appreciate the crippling effect on any >machine's performance when the bulk of it's memory is only >available through a 1-bit serial interface. ???? I still have 4 of them. HAving hacked one rather severely the CRU interface was IO only. Ram was either accessed as: 128 words on the 16bit bus (pair of 6810s) this was fast ram relative to all other. 32KW in the Expansion box, this was slower due to the word to byte wide conversion logic (adds at least 2 waits for every access!) Grom, byte parallel, sequential access, you wrote to a register in the GROM to set the starting address and every byte read would increment an internal counter. This was slow at times being both on the byte wide bus and the higher software maintenance. Mostly used for internal Basic and the plug in carts. Vram.... 16k or 4116 Dram on the video refresh bus. This was also used as general storage for the internal BASIC and was a byte wide access via the 9918 VTAC and also CRU IO (setting a pointer). Horribly slow, cool graphics for the time! I have a severely hacked one with 32KW of 61256(32kx8) and 32KW of Eprom both 16bits wide and clocked to 4mhz... it screams. Nothing standard and doesnt run any of the TI stuff. Nice package though. The CRU interface for IO was actually pretty fast in practice and had flexibility that was not available on most of the 8bitters. >BTW, I also had the technico board... a really neat product that >never quite took off. :-( IT's interesting that it was one of the first 16bit cpus and was not well supported by TI at that time. Good programmers CPU. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Jan 30 15:44:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Hardware Emulation (was Re: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010130150249.00a821e0@mail.njd.concentric.com> from "Tony Eros" at Jan 30, 2001 03:03:47 PM Message-ID: <200101302144.NAA26526@shell1.aracnet.com> > Do you know where I could find a copy of the PDP-8 VHDL description you > mentioned? I'd like to play with FPGA as well. > > -- Tony > Here is the only one I'm aware of and a couple related links (note the -8 isn't VHDL, but C++ I believe): http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ http://www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/PDP-10/ Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Jan 30 18:46:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Collecting and taxes In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DBA@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010130194659.43e7ecb2@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:41 AM 1/30/01 -0500, Doug wrote: > >> Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Obviously you've never dealt with the IRS!!!!! They >may >> not "enter" your residence but they'll sure as hell padlock it shut until >> they get what THEY want! As far as they're concerned you have about the >> same rights that the Jews did in Nazi Germany! > >Actually, I have. > >In 1986, when I filed for Chapter 13, they sent me a letter saying >I hadn't filed for 1985 and 1986 and owed an estimated $11,000 in >back taxes. > >I wrote back saying, it was true, I hadn't filed for 1985, *yet*, but >would do so now as I expected a refund. Additionally, I sent them >photocopies of the 1986 filing & refund check they didn't seem to >know about. > >And human engeineering has yet to create the lock >that can keep me out of my house. It's not the locks as much as it's the US Marshall's Service that backs it up! Joe > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 30 19:39:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #499 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >The only NeXT I've seen listed as >>supporting more than 32meg is the '040 Cube. Otherwise, as far as I >>know, 8meg 72pin SIMMs will only work in the Turbo's. > >True as far as I know. My 040 non-turbo Cube has 16 30-pin slots, all >currently stuffed with 4M simms for a total of 64M. Actually, I need to correct myself...I took a look at the Blackhole Inc. site and Ron has a scan of a brochure for the Turbo NeXTstation Color. It shows it being capable of 128meg. Too bad that the non-Turbo Color with it's 8 SIMM slots doesn't seem to work with larger the 4meg SIMMs. Obviously there were a few more changes made between the two other than ADB support and a faster CPU. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Jan 30 19:42:07 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Sharp PC7000 In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20010127152953.00b18f00@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.20010130203528.00a45e40@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:05 PM 1/29/01 -0500, liste@artware.qc.ca said something like: > >On 27-Jan-2001 Christian Fandt wrote: >> Hey folks, who's got one of the above subject machines? I found one >> over at the Salvation Army store. >> >> Looks very clean and complete: has the Operator's manual in a slipcase, >> MSDOS manual (DOS v.2.1), keyboard, printer, vinyl slipcover, cables, >> some floppies of s/w. They want $50 for it which is probably a little >> high. Maybe I can negotiate it down to something better. > >Way to much. While that's a nice looking computer (I have a fondness for >lunchbox style "portables") it is "worthless" in that you won't be able to >run a "modern" OS on it. Offer to free up the wasted space it's >occupying. :) Of couse it's understood that I couldn't go "modern" except for Minix and perhaps one or two other interesting small systems of recent release. I would try to try to get it cheaper if I get a chance to visit again before closing time as it's been there since 4 January. They often will come down nicely after an object's been on the floor for several weeks or more. > >Flame preventer: I know that one could do a lot of useful work/play with >this computer (DOS, wordstar, kermit, telemate, Zork, Pirates!). It >probably runs Xenix and Minix pretty well. I would likely indeed run DOS and my good old Wordstar on it if I nabbed it. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 30 19:42:55 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A In-Reply-To: <00b801c08b00$1cd8e050$bd799a8d@ajp166> References: <00b801c08b00$1cd8e050$bd799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >I have a severely hacked one with 32KW of 61256(32kx8) and 32KW >of Eprom both 16bits wide and clocked to 4mhz... it screams. Nothing >standard and doesnt run any of the TI stuff. Nice package though. Allison, What kind of stuff do you run on it if not any of the TI stuff? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Jan 30 19:47:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A In-Reply-To: <007c01c08ac0$c3108e90$bd799a8d@ajp166> References: <007c01c08ac0$c3108e90$bd799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >I have a Technico Super starter board and it runs the TI9900 at 4mhz >with 16bit wide memeory and rom really fast compared to the Z80 >(comparison made on both machines I still have from 1979!). I picked up >the TI99/4a and was sadly disappointed save for the bundle of >really good and inexpensive software for it. Still, it plays a mean game >of >Parsec!!! Parsec is the main use of my 4A...it's the replacement for all the quarter-dropping days playing Defender. When playing Parsec though, one has to have the Speech Synth plugged in! It's too bad TI killed the idea of additional plug-in modules to add to it's vocabulary. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Jan 30 20:14:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A Message-ID: <000c01c08b2c$41a52de0$bd799a8d@ajp166> > What kind of stuff do you run on it if not any of the TI stuff? > > Jeff The stuff I have for the technico mostly. Save for I have a complete 99/4a so I can run edtasm. Allison From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Jan 31 04:14:09 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Speccy Message-ID: <01Jan31.101413gmt.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:01:26 -0000 > From: "Gareth Knight" > Subject: Re: Spectrums, Ultrix, feeling old :) > > You can tell the difference by the colour of the machine. The > +2A was grey, while the +2B was black. Nope, the +2 (vanilla) was grey and both the +2A and +2B are black. There were 3 models, all increasing in bug-ness. I was going to say check the Sinclair page in the Museum but I've just noticed the +2B isn't there.....hmm.... -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From archer at topnow.com Wed Jan 31 04:24:45 2001 From: archer at topnow.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8EAA@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3A77E7ED.43F43353@topnow.com> Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > I always thought the TMS9900 was a neat chip (having a PDP-10 > background may have influenced me :-) Having the register set > show up in memory gave me a nice warm nostalgic feeling. I > wouldn't blame the poor performance of the 99/4A on the CPU. The > architecture had a lot of nifty things in it. Most of the blame > for the poor performance of the 99/4A falls on the low-end > save-every-penny-you-can design criteria for the machine. I've always had a weakness for those huge 64-pin DIP CPUs. :) Amazing what passes for cost-cutting then vs. now. I took a TI 99/4A (dead on arrival) apart and discovered a wealth of fastening screws, RF shielding, really thick PCB material, hand-wired jumper wires, and a pretty respectable keyboard inside, that you just wouldn't find in a low-end product today, but apparently they went to heroic effort to cut silicon costs. Fast forward to 2001, and cost cutting means as little metal, as few fasteners, and the cheapest mechanical build possible, flimsy thin PCB material, and stuff that might fly apart if you pull the case off, but yet no problem with adequate RAM, ROM, or silicon. :) Am I the only one who thinks mechanical design cost-cutting has finally gone too far? I almost forgot that stuff was once this well put-together. -- Ross > I > ordered the technical manual on the 99/4A from TI... What > I saw in the manual made me gag... aside from a very small amount > of memory actually on the system bus, any add-on RAM was > accessed _serially_ (i.e. 1 bit at a time) via what TI called > a "CRU" interface (basically a high speed serial port) I > believe we can all appreciate the crippling effect on any > machine's performance when the bulk of it's memory is only > available through a 1-bit serial interface. > > BTW, I also had the technico board... a really neat product that > never quite took off. :-( > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ajp166 [mailto:ajp166@bellatlantic.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 8:30 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: TI-99/4A > > > > > > From: Ross Archer > > > > > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard the 99/4A suffered > > something of > > >an unfair rap for being slow due to the fact that its TI BASIC was > > >dreadfully inefficient and sloppy, and that little or no > > blame for its > > >slowness rested on the actual CPU or hardware. (Windoze > > >users may spot a parallel here.) >;) > > > > Partially correct. there were many issues. One the 9900 is > > 16bit wide > > data bus demuxed to 8bit (costs a lot of cycles!, penalty 1), > > it's run at > > less than maximum speed for the time and BASIC {internal} was > > interpreted as an end language {penalty 2} and the BASIC interpreter > > was interpreted {penalty 3}. > > > > Those things really hurt speed. The other side was it did have one of > > the better from a capability standpoint Basics in the > > standard console. > > > > >The TMS 9900 CPU actually used a "window" in RAM as its > > register space, > > >with an internal pointer register to locate its base > > address. This was > > >actually a great idea at the time, because CPU cycles were > > long enough > > >back then it made no difference whether you stored temporary > > values in > > >internal registers or external RAM, as either could get you > > your data in > > >the 1 cycle time available. > > > > > > Actually many of the older DEC hardware also used part fo ram to > > implement the registers including early PDP11, DEC-10s and previous > > machines. The idea was not new and was to save logic in the CPU > > as FlipFlops (memory) were costly in hardware back then and even in > > late 70s were costly on silicon. The other factor is the 9900 was > > a single chip recreation of the TI990 mini (not unlike like the > > 6100{pdp-8}, LSI-11 and DG MicroNova). > > > > >(And interrupt latency can be really short if you can make a "fresh" > > >register bank with one register load!) > > > > The ability to context switch fast was one of the strong points. > > Compared > > to Z80 or 8086 it was a nicer cpu to program save for the 32KW memory > > limitation. In many respects it was more similar to the minis like > > PDP-11 > > or Nova than the micros of the time. It was rich in general > > registers, > > Addressing modes and IO. > > > > I have a Technico Super starter board and it runs the TI9900 at 4mhz > > with 16bit wide memeory and rom really fast compared to the Z80 > > (comparison made on both machines I still have from 1979!). > > I picked up > > the TI99/4a and was sadly disappointed save for the bundle of > > really good and inexpensive software for it. Still, it plays > > a mean game > > of > > Parsec!!! > > > > Allison > > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Jan 31 08:01:12 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E36E2@MAIL10> Hello, all: I got the following message from someone. Can we help him out?? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: Nicholas J Leon [mailto:nicholas@binary9.net] > Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:32 AM > To: rcini@msn.com > Subject: TRS-80 Magazines > > Greetings! > > I am currently trying to prove that I am the author of an old TRS-80 > program that someone else has taken credit for, Bullet-80. > > At one point, in the early 80's, I was written up in a small magazine (not > Compute, not Byte, something smaller) for this. Unfortunately it was 20 > years ago and I can't remember what the magazine was. > > When you are looking through all your old stuff, could you do me a favor > and keep an eye out for my name? (And the name of Joe Simon, too). At the > time I was 13-years-old and living in Wilton, CT. > > Your help in this would be much appreciative. > > Thank you!! > > --------------------------------------------------------- nicholas j leon > [personal web] http://nicholasjleon.com > [email ] sig@nicholasjleon.com > [work ] Eagle Design & Management > [work web ] http://www.aerie.com > [work email ] nicholas@aerie.com > [pgp ] http://nicholasjleon.com/plan.txt > [top secret > messenger ] http://nicholasjleon.com/mypublic.tsm > --------------------------------------------------------- elegance through > Proud resident of Greensboro, NC simplicity > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Jan 31 09:57:23 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: TI-99/4A In-Reply-To: Re: TI-99/4A (Ross Archer) References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8EAA@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> <3A77E7ED.43F43353@topnow.com> Message-ID: <14968.13795.534738.264719@phaduka.neurotica.com> On January 31, Ross Archer wrote: > Am I the only one who thinks mechanical design cost-cutting has > finally gone too far? I almost forgot that stuff was once > this well put-together. I'm with you there. Fairly recently I was moving stuff around in the basement; I stood on a PC chassis to reach over some stuff. It was a recent chassis, maybe a year old. It collapsed under my weight. The "sheet metal" was like foil. Now, I'm not a small guy, but I'm not hugely fat either. -Dave McGuire From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Jan 31 10:11:56 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: VAX power supply H7100B available Message-ID: I finally dug out the VAX PSU that's been in my loft for a while. It's a 5Volt, 100Amp power supply dated 21st Feb 1980. Model H7100B, with 240V 6A 50/60Hz input. No idea what model VAX it's for, but it was most likely a big 'un. The PSU is in Bristol, UK. It's very heavy, and 240V, so it's probably only useful to someone in this country. Anybody want it? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Jan 31 10:15:01 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Micropolis 1203-I disk drives available Message-ID: I also found two Micropolis 1203-I disk drives in the loft. They are 8-inch hard disks, +24V, -12V and +5V power requirements and connected to an ICL "formatter" dated 1989. The formatter has various chips from the 8X300 bit-slice system all over it. They're in Bristol, UK, if anyone wants them. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Wed Jan 31 10:50:46 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Nova 3 Availiable References: Message-ID: <007101c08ba6$ce4738e0$71f2fea9@dellhare> G'day Paxton - Whatever became of this system...? I don't remember the status of trying to save this puppy. Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 10:26 PM Subject: Nova 3 Availiable > One of scrappers has got in a Nova 3 that he is interested in selling. it > appears to be a 12 slot card cage with the following cards. > > Nova 3 CPU D4864 > Nova 3 Triple option 8534 > 2 16K SCMEM 1638 & 0659 > DGC nova Cassette I/O 4F-0334 > DGC Nova Compatable wiring board 005-000-449-04 > Disk Cartridge Control 4134 > another DGC Nova Cassette I/o 5075 > > There is also a DG removable pack disk drive 4234 > > I have not seen it yet but I think it is missing the plastic front covers. > > If anyone is interested please contact me off list and I will try to find > more about it. > > I suspect it is heavy but I have considerable experience in shipping this > type of hardware. It has been about 9 years since I have seen a Nova 3. > > Paxton > Portland, OR From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 30 18:38:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: eBay Dash30fx In-Reply-To: <20010130002230.GMXT6682.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <1936.431T800T984505optimus@canit.se> jpero skrev: >> I've sent a mail inquiring the hardware guy, he's having a go at another >> 64- pin adapter now. =) >Or if 98% of pins are standard in places, cut few traces and rewire? >This is done for adapting generic 30 pins simms for few certain IBM >machines. To clarify: He's making an adapter for plugging 72-pin SIMMs into a 64-pin socket. >> >While the connector may be the same, I'm sceptical that they are >> >compatible; a few years ago I tried an AST 64-pin SIMM in my GVP card >> >unsuccessfully. >> >> What are those AST SIMMs used for anyway? >AST machines and queer machines that use 64pin simms! I have bunch >of those little 64pin 1MB and rare few 4MB usually comes out of AST >486 bravo series cpu on a card types. Hmm, I've got a 486 Bravo, but it uses 72-pinners. Still, it's a queer machine. So far, no non-MS OS has worked on it. >1. The # of chips on both 64pin and 72pin are same therefore 32bit >per stick plus 1bit every byte of data for parity = 9 or 18, non >parity 8 or 16 chips, except for some early 12 chip parity simms. How's the pinout? >AST is bad as Compaq using oddball memory modules in all shapes on >many early to mid 90's compaq machines. Bastards. >IBM is not *that* bad like this, 99% of time these machines they >produced since the ps/2 series used standard types except 25/30 >series (except make it work by this hack noted above) and few early >to mid 90's used either standard or ECC in same machines. I'm not >including those RS6000 series which is totally different animal to >this topic. Don't get me started on PS/2s. I collect them, but they are nightmares to get going. The actual reason I started collecting them was that I found one in a dumpster and found nout that not a single part could be reused in another machine. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 30 23:02:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Beetle-Net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1008.431T1800T3625889optimus@canit.se> McFadden, Mike skrev: >Manual transfer of data was the only way to go in the "old days". Even now, I find myself having to resort to sneaker-WAN, or sometimes sub-WAN. Certainly, there are networks everywhere, but no internet between them, so I've recently built a small headless PC (>10 y but upgraded) with combo ethernet which can easily be carried around between LANs. ^_^ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. -- Support your government, give Carnivore / Echelon something to parse -- classfield top-secret government restricted data information project CIA KGB GRU DISA DoD defense systems military systems spy steal terrorist Allah Natasha Gregori destroy destruct attack democracy will send Russia bank system compromise international own rule the world ATSC RTEM warmod ATMD force power enforce sensitive directorate TSP NSTD ORD DD2-N AMTAS STRAP warrior-T presidental elections policital foreign embassy takeover -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Tue Jan 30 18:44:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <20010130020126.OEPP10080.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <762.431T1300T1045429optimus@canit.se> jpero skrev: >> > I disagree - if they use 72-pin SIMMs, they surely can't be older Macs. >> > Older Macs use 30-pin or 64-pin modules. =) >> >> No, there are some 72-pin SIMM Macs. The 7100 comes to mind. >Actually that's later Macs. The earliest that do have 72 pin simms I >can think of is LC III w/ 8MB which I have learning against TV stand >to be used w/ BSD if I can not find 68882 rated for 25mhz FPU to use >68k-linux because I don't wish to buy apple's 7.1 for it. But why exactly OS 7.1? After all, you may download 7.5 for free from Apple, as well as earlier versions. All save for 7.1. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. We have the most thorough test guy in the world... I showed him this program and he asked, 'but Rob, what if time runs backward?' From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Jan 31 13:20:50 2001 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DCA@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >Actually that's later Macs. The earliest that do have 72 pin simms I > >can think of is LC III w/ 8MB which I have learning against TV stand > >to be used w/ BSD if I can not find 68882 rated for 25mhz FPU to use > >68k-linux because I don't wish to buy apple's 7.1 for it. > > But why exactly OS 7.1? After all, you may download 7.5 for free from Apple, > as well as earlier versions. All save for 7.1. There are *updates* to 7.5 (like 7.5.1, etc) that are freely available from Apple's sites, but I've never seen 7.5 itself freely available for download. Care to share a link? -dq From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 13:28:47 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Nova 3 Availiable Message-ID: Yeah, I'd be interested in it, especially for the cassette controller board, I have a friend who is trying to repair his cassette control board. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 31 13:39:58 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:27 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <762.431T1300T1045429optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Jan 31, 1 01:44:26 am" Message-ID: <200101311939.LAA11272@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Actually that's later Macs. The earliest that do have 72 pin simms I > >can think of is LC III w/ 8MB which I have learning against TV stand > >to be used w/ BSD if I can not find 68882 rated for 25mhz FPU to use > >68k-linux because I don't wish to buy apple's 7.1 for it. > > But why exactly OS 7.1? After all, you may download 7.5 for free from Apple, > as well as earlier versions. All save for 7.1. Because 7.1 is probably the best of the System 7 versions (save 7.6), IMHO. It's small and lacks much of the garbage that was in 7.5.x. 7.6 is good but you need a correspondingly buffer system to run it. All of my 68Ks run 7.1 except the SE/30 and the Plus, which run 6.0.8 -- even the NetBSD IIci :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence. -- George Bernard Shaw ---- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 31 13:47:38 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DCA@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 31, 1 02:20:50 pm" Message-ID: <200101311947.LAA09788@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > There are *updates* to 7.5 (like 7.5.1, etc) that are freely > available from Apple's sites, but I've never seen 7.5 itself > freely available for download. > Care to share a link? I would be honoured. http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n11267 -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my personalities each need therapy." ----- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Jan 31 13:49:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: Needed: 4 - 4meg 72pin non-parity SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509DCA@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Jan 31, 1 02:20:50 pm" Message-ID: <200101311949.LAA10564@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Care to share a link? Also, http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n11258 is good, too (for English-North American). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Well done is better than well said. -- Benjamin Franklin ------------------- From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 14:23:12 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: Nova 3 Availiable References: <007101c08ba6$ce4738e0$71f2fea9@dellhare> Message-ID: Does anyone have info on these? I rescued one from U of M and it has become the prized possession in my collection. It used to drive some kind of ancient logic analyzer, I can't ID any of the boards in it, but I'm pretty sure I have a disk controller board of some kind. Got it mounted in a big old COMTAL Vision/1 mainframe chasis, right above my Quadex Q500 CPU and TBU/Winchester disk unit. I'm not sure what condition the logic is in, it turns on and LED's blink :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Ray" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Nova 3 Availiable > G'day Paxton - > > Whatever became of this system...? I don't remember the status of trying to > save this puppy. > > Bruce > bkr@WildHareComputers.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 10:26 PM > Subject: Nova 3 Availiable > > > > One of scrappers has got in a Nova 3 that he is interested in selling. it > > appears to be a 12 slot card cage with the following cards. > > > > Nova 3 CPU D4864 > > Nova 3 Triple option 8534 > > 2 16K SCMEM 1638 & 0659 > > DGC nova Cassette I/O 4F-0334 > > DGC Nova Compatable wiring board 005-000-449-04 > > Disk Cartridge Control 4134 > > another DGC Nova Cassette I/o 5075 > > > > There is also a DG removable pack disk drive 4234 > > > > I have not seen it yet but I think it is missing the plastic front covers. > > > > If anyone is interested please contact me off list and I will try to find > > more about it. > > > > I suspect it is heavy but I have considerable experience in shipping this > > type of hardware. It has been about 9 years since I have seen a Nova 3. > > > > Paxton > > Portland, OR > > From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Wed Jan 31 15:04:21 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: Speccy References: <01Jan31.101413gmt.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <001c01c08bc9$74f87060$0101010a@pentium2> Adrian Graham wrote: > > You can tell the difference by the colour of the machine. The > > +2A was grey, while the +2B was black. > > Nope, the +2 (vanilla) was grey and both the +2A and +2B are black. There > were 3 models, all increasing in bug-ness. I was going to say check the > Sinclair page in the Museum but I've just noticed the +2B isn't > there.....hmm.... That's interesting. A friend had a grey +2A. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Amiga, Windows, Mac, and Linux user | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress Documentation Project | Team Amiga "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" -- Albert Einstein From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Jan 31 23:11:08 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: Test - Ignore Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010131211108.00998550@192.168.42.129> Please ignore. Thanks... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Jan 31 23:25:05 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:28 2005 Subject: FW: TRS-80 Magazines In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E36E2@MAIL10> Message-ID: <20010201052853.YLRW3627.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Hi. Wasn't the Bullet a CP/M bbs program from the early 80's and late 70's? At any rate, try Kilobaud Microcomputing magazine to find your credit. I don't know if the article you are looking for is in Kilobaud, but I worshiped that mag back then and it predates Byte by a few years. In fact, I think it Became Byte. Best of luck, and thanks for the kicks (even if you don't get credit for it today), Jeff In <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E36E2@MAIL10>, on 02/01/01 at 12:25 AM, "Cini, Richard" said: >Hello, all: > I got the following message from someone. Can we help him out?? >Rich >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nicholas J Leon [mailto:nicholas@binary9.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 11:32 AM >> To: rcini@msn.com >> Subject: TRS-80 Magazines >> >> Greetings! >> >> I am currently trying to prove that I am the author of an old TRS-80 >> program that someone else has taken credit for, Bullet-80. >> >> At one point, in the early 80's, I was written up in a small magazine (not >> Compute, not Byte, something smaller) for this. Unfortunately it was 20 >> years ago and I can't remember what the magazine was. >> >> When you are looking through all your old stuff, could you do me a favor >> and keep an eye out for my name? (And the name of Joe Simon, too). At the >> time I was 13-years-old and living in Wilton, CT. >> >> Your help in this would be much appreciative. >> >> Thank you!! >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- nicholas j leon >> [personal web] http://nicholasjleon.com >> [email ] sig@nicholasjleon.com >> [work ] Eagle Design & Management >> [work web ] http://www.aerie.com >> [work email ] nicholas@aerie.com >> [pgp ] http://nicholasjleon.com/plan.txt >> [top secret >> messenger ] http://nicholasjleon.com/mypublic.tsm >> --------------------------------------------------------- elegance through >> Proud resident of Greensboro, NC simplicity >> >> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com -----------------------------------------------------------