From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Apr 1 18:49:24 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:36 2005 Subject: Classic MAC "network" games? Message-ID: <002501c0bb06$61900440$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> I am sending off a bunch of compact MACs to the "familly compound" where we have our many familly holiday gatherings. I had accumulated over 30 of these, mostly Classics and Classic IIs. We end up with a bunch of kids there (ages 4 to14) and I would like to hook up some MACs together and get them running some sort of head to head games...Since these are small and compact they will be fine for the kids and 4 or 6 of these will not take up more than a large table...I am doing some spring cleaning in the collection so... I was not into games when these were popular so...anybody remember any good titles that could be played head-to-head on these? Thanks Claude From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 1 01:33:47 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:39 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: <200104010338.UAA05142@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <001501c0ba7e$17156e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> These slots for expansion were EISA in many cases, e.g. HP, Packard Bell, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strickland" To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 8:38 PM Subject: Re: Mobo Question > Sounds like it wants a riser with the isa slots on it. Those tended to be > proprietary, you may be out of luck. I know Digital Equipment, Packard Bell, > Radio Shack, and myriad others produced boards like this. > > > > > Hi, > > > > I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I recently obtained a mobo that > > was sitting around a local computer store, and am having a little trouble > > with it. It's a 386SX motherboard, with onboard parallel, serial, and PS/2 > > connectors. I was planning on building a little box based on this, but the > > problem is the lack of ISA or PCI (obviously) slots. Instead, what i have is > > a bigass connector. It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm > > thinking this may be an extension to plug in another card with slots, but I > > have no idea. Can anyone help me? If you need more info let me know, i can > > supply it. The brands Faraday and WDC are displayed prominently on a lot of > > the ICs. > > > > -Lanny > > > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 1 01:35:57 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: <000701c0ba62$c4c0b9a0$9015a38e@98box> Message-ID: <002101c0ba7e$6468a880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Sounds like a Packard Bell box. They used an EISA bridge to an expansion bus at right angles to the mobo. Of course just because it looks that way doesn't mean it really is. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny Cox" To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Mobo Question > It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally mentioned. It > looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), but is > a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does support the > riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, serial and > parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. > > -Lanny > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: Mobo Question > > > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, Lanny Cox wrote: > > > a bigass connector. It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot. I'm > > > > Can you be more specific? > > There doesn't seem to be full standardization of bigass. > > > > It COULD be EISA, or it could be something uniquely proprietary. > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 1 01:40:39 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: <011e01c0ba6d$9659c100$ec779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <003d01c0ba7f$0ca61dc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have a Packard Bell setup and an HP, both of which use an EISA bridge (according to the signon) and EISA-looking riser card, at right angles in the case of the PB and parallel to the really small lower card in the HP. Both have ISA expansion and PCI as well, and both have video, etc. (all the usual mobo stuff) on the lower board. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Mobo Question > From: Lanny Cox > > > >It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally > mentioned. It > >looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), > but is > >a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does support > the > >riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, serial and > >parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. > > > Thats the case. Most pizza boxen that are under 5" high have to mount the > card > horizontally so the do the 120 pin connector and riser with the cards > plugging into > the riser sideways. > > I have a AT&T P100, Dell 486DX and Dell 386sx/16 all using risers like > that. > > Allison > > From M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk Sun Apr 1 03:40:26 2001 From: M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk (M.Buckett) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331182008.00a731a0@pop.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Mar 31, 2001 06:20:42 PM Message-ID: > > At 3/31/2001 05:47 PM, you wrote: > >For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB > >of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job > >done. The machine has since been upgraded to a 486DX25 . The 386 would > >manage to grab a frame every 30 seconds, compress it into a JPG and > >upload it to a webserver. The 486 manages every 10 seconds. Still for > >a while the 386 was just about being useful. > > But how many times per hour did you have to reboot it? About once every 2 weeks, but by that time the upload speed had dropped considerably. You could tell how long it would be before the next reboot by the amount of HD activity. Just before failing the HD would be going non-stop, I suspect a few memory leaks.... There was talk of buying a timer plug to cut the power once a day for 15 minutes so it never got too bad. Mind you you had to do all the configuration before you started capturing images as the computer would start to fail to respond to keyboard events once the webcam software had started. Matthew Buckett From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 1 03:07:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Old western electric phones available In-Reply-To: <200103311635.KAA30541@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > I have three of the "old style" touch tone phones available (real bell, can be used with an acoustic modem), > > If anyone wants them please let me know, we can work something out. I've got 50, boxed up and ready to go. Pay me $2 each and they're yours :) No, I won't sell these off one at a time :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 1 04:40:59 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 In-Reply-To: <3AC6C364.82868A97@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> At 12:57 AM 4/1/01 -0500, Chad wrote: >I re-tried a 2 line phone cable I bought at Lowes. I filed the >connectors down so I could plug them into the MMJ ports. This time it >worked. I must have had everything else mixed up, last time I tried >this cable. > >I am now wandering aimlessly around the console monitor. Anything I >should do while here? I don't know how to do much, but I did find that >I could "show mem" and it reports 44megs of ram. I also did "show qbus", >but it didn't tell me much. I was hoping it would tell me what cards I >have installed, and what they are. Most excellent progress. A useful command is 'SHOW DEVICE' which will tell you what devices and more importantly what type of disks you have installed. 44M means you have 40 MB + the on-board 4MB on the KA640 CPU. Thus you have a fairly rare 32MB memory card and an 8MB card installed, or you have two 16's and an 8. I'm betting though its the former. Next look at all the cards that are installed from the front and write down the 'M' numbers and post them to the list, we'll ID them for you. If there are blank connectors, be sure to remove those and look behind them, sometimes cards have no external connection. >I did boot the machine... well sort of. It tells me that it has OpenVMS >Vax version 6.2, major version 1, minor version 0. It also reports >pagefile.sys, not found. The licenses are expired, it was shutdown >improperly, the disk is full, and that a whole bunch of files are >inaccessible, and then eventually goes back to the >>> prompt. Sounds like one of the disks was pulled (which usually means that part of the system was installed on a disk in an expansion box) Normally, a good sys admin will make sure that the box can boot without any external disks attached but that isn't always possible. >What now? Well, since its bootable you should probably install a new copy of the OS on it. Either VMS or NetBSD will work fine on the machine. (a better variety of languages in VMS and its more authentic) Install media is easier to get for NetBSD and its license free. It will be useful to determine if you have a SCSI interface in this machine as that would enable you to use a SCSI CD-ROM to install software (much faster than tape!) --Chuck From alex at linuxhacker.org Sun Apr 1 05:24:31 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <20010401000155.LYJK22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > turned out few weirdo boxens with too many corners cut. Examples: > Apple's 6100 series and few of their models as well. When I throught What's so bad about the 6100? My mum has one and it seems reasonably fast. Sadly my dad went on some kind of "computer literacy" course (ie. lessons on how to use proprietory MS products), and insisted on retiring the Mac in favour of a significantly slower and less reliable PC so that he could use (and teach my mum to use) W95 instead. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From bqt at update.uu.se Sun Apr 1 05:33:16 2001 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: [pups] Reformat RA81/82? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Can RA81/82 disks be reformatted in the field? If so, is this > done through XXDP or is there a way to do it from the disk's > serial port? Yes, yes and no. If we're talking PDP-11s, you need XXDP. > My RA82 occasionally lights its FAULT light and extinguishes its > ready light during write operations. The likelyhood of it > faulting appears (but I am not certain) to be correlated with a specific > region of the disk. > > About five-ten seconds after the fault, the FAULT indicator turns > off and ready comes back on. At no time is an I/O error generated > that the application or the operating system (2.11BSD) see > so this fault appears to be transient and is resolved by either > the drive or the drive/controller together. Hmmm. Normally, bad spots developing on the disk are reported by the controller. The OS is supposed to remap those bad blocks (BSD don't do this), so it should never be hidden by the disk. > It "smells" like a data write error that's resolved after a few > automatic retries. I'm hoping a low-level reformat could clear it > up. Am I wacked out? Not sure, but it smells fish... > If there's an XXDP exerciser/formatter available I'd appreciate it > if someone could point me there. It's been nearly twenty years since > the last time I even tried running XXDP CZUDE (UDA disk formatter) CZUDC (UDA and disk drive diagnostics) All according to an old manual I have. My memory tells me that this information is obsolete, and that new diagnostics were created, but I can't find that information... Hmm, a KDA50 manuals says: CZUDK (KDA50 Disk drive formatter) CZUDH (UDA-50/KDA-50 Basic Subsystem Diagnostics) CZUDI (Disk Exerciser test) CZUDJ (Subsystem exerciser test) CZUDL (Bad Block Replacement Utility) CZUDM (Disk Resident Error Log Utility) I think these all are the current diagnostics for the UDA-50 also. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 1 06:03:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Classic MAC "network" games? In-Reply-To: <002501c0bb06$61900440$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: >I am sending off a bunch of compact MACs to the "familly compound" where we >have our many familly holiday gatherings. I had accumulated over 30 of >these, mostly Classics and Classic IIs. >I was not into games when these were popular so...anybody remember any good >titles that could be played head-to-head on these? Spaceward Ho! Bolo From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 1 06:05:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Mar 31, 2001 03:28:57 PM Message-ID: >For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB >of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 1 06:27:30 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: List spammer ID'd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I just wish I had a red version of this phone..... "I'll call them on the >Red Phone." :-) I do. I'm not sure exactly how I got it, but I have a bright red AT&T original phone. Push button, but very red and the large old style. We call it the "bat phone". From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 1 06:30:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: FastPath In-Reply-To: <200104010122.UAA04121@ultimate.com> Message-ID: >I can't (off the top of my head) think of any other pitfalls. Ah, like a cool glass of water to a man in the desert. ;) From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 1 08:44:44 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:41 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >What's so bad about the 6100? My mum has one and it seems reasonably fast. >Sadly my dad went on some kind of "computer literacy" course (ie. lessons >on how to use proprietory MS products), and insisted on retiring the Mac >in favour of a significantly slower and less reliable PC so that he could >use (and teach my mum to use) W95 instead. The only bad points about the 6100 are that it uses the HDI-45 video connector designed for use with their 14" AV monitor, as well as the AAUI connector for the ethernet. A lot of people don't like the fact that you have to find the various adapters for whichever video and ethernet standards you wish to use. Otherwise it's quite flexible. Last year I traded some parts for a G3 upgrade for mine and it has a CD-ROM and 1gig HD internally. If I didn't have the G3 upgrade installed (early Sonnett board not compatible with PDS cards) I could install either NUBUS of PPC-PDS cards into it, including Pentium-based PC compatibility cards. It's a very solid machine though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 1 08:47:13 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:44 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Mar 31, 2001 03:28:57 PM Message-ID: >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. OS/2 Warp Connect supposedly provides all of the missing network functionality of the earlier Version 3 Wap. Ver. 3 happily runs in 8meg with bot DOS and Windows support included. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Apr 1 10:53:20 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:44 2005 Subject: NEC APC TU001 Memory boards Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010401114643.00a657e0@mail.wincom.net> We are trying to get an APC operational, and would like to ask if anyone has a couple of the optional memory expansion boards that they would part with for a reasonable price? Also, does anyone know where I could track down a tape punch and reader for a Model 33 Teletype? Thanks Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From at258 at osfn.org Sun Apr 1 11:49:23 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:44 2005 Subject: Recent donations In-Reply-To: <200103292007.f2TK7kr09057@bender.ndx.net> Message-ID: On Sunday, March 27th, The Rhode Island Computer Museum effected the rescue of a large Wang VS-8460 system from Wall Street, New York City. Initiated by a referral from Lee Courtney and Dag Spicer at the Computer Museum History Centre in California, the system was made available through Garry Sprong, Edythe Childs and Steven Gorman of AIG Insurance. Scheduling and loading assistance were provided by Bob Bergen, Gabriel Duque and Jack Calandra, Manager H.R.I.S. Operations. Also appreciated was the assistance of Chester from building services. Dan Berman, Geoff Rochat, Peter Rochat, Ron Fraser and Merle Peirce formed the museum rescue team. The complete system was loaded with minimal effort and filled the rental truck. The Rhode Island-Gotham-Rhode Island turn was completed in only eleven hours. The system is in good running condition and has Wang VS operating System version 7.21.09 Qty Model Number Description 1 VS 8460 CP12 - 16MB Memory CPU 1 VS-SCU-PCT System Control Unit IOC 3 23V97W WangNet ControLr IOC 1 23V98-4 SMD Disk IOC 2 70V98E-4 Caching Disk IOC 1 23V95-2 Telex Tape IOC 4 23V67 Modular Serial IOC 1 16 Port 270-1004 Multi Line T. C. 3 US-6550A TC Controllers 17 270-0975 TP-APA 16 EAPA DISK DRIVE 1 2265V-2 288MB Removable Disk Drive 1 24" MASS Storage Rack with Disks 1 2276V-1 76MB Removable Add-on Disk 4 2268V4R 442MB Fixed 1 2268V6D 1.0GB Fixed 1 289-1986 650MB Fixed TAPE DRIVES 1 2248V-1 Tri-density Tape Drive - Master 1 2248V-1.5 Tri-density Tape Drive - Slave PRINTERS 2 5575 1100 LPM Band Printer (DP only) 1 LM900 900 LPM Matrix Printer 1 LCS15 Laser Composition System 15PP 4 289-1793 EAPA KITS 10K 53 289-1575 TP Adapters 5 WACS-1 2 4230-A Workstations All necessary cables included. This follows by two weeks another large donation of materilas from R. W. Evans in Cranston, RI. Included in this donation of assorted items, which also comprised a full truck load, were fully operating Wang VS-5, VS-6 and VS-15 systems plus assorted documentation, peripherals, software and micro-computer items. On the 30th, a long awaited item arrived by tuck freight from Pat Street in Orlando, Florida. We now have a fully operable, one owner 1981 Wangwriter with software and manuals. From robwill2 at wxs.nl Sun Apr 1 12:07:18 2001 From: robwill2 at wxs.nl (robwill2@wxs.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: OT: Compaq Prolinea4100 setup disk In-Reply-To: <20010401164219.7DE0936F0A@pandora.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: <200104011706.MAA40287@opal.tseinc.com> Hi Wim, From: "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" To: Subject: OT: Compaq Prolinea4100 setup disk > Does anyone know where I can find a Prolinea 4100 setup disk? Dozens of > those computers around but everybody seems to have thrown away the setup > disks. isn't it on the www.compaq.com site?? robert robwill2@wxs.nl From peter at joules.org Sun Apr 1 12:54:41 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Quadruple IDE lead?? Message-ID: <000201c0bad4$d6710ca0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/46884899 This claims to be a quadruple IDE lead... I thought IDE only allowed for 2 devices per controller? Am I wrong about this? -- Regards Pete From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 1 12:59:18 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <015401c0bad6$85f5a590$ec779a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >>For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB >>of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job > >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. Huh? What about linux, freebsd, and friends.? Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 1 12:56:14 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <015301c0bad6$858dbc00$ec779a8d@ajp166> From: M.Buckett >> But how many times per hour did you have to reboot it? > >About once every 2 weeks, but by that time the upload speed had dropped >considerably. You could tell how long it would be before the next reboot >by the amount of HD activity. Just before failing the HD would be going >non-stop, I suspect a few memory leaks.... There was talk of buying You suspect right. Most cases where WIN9x has to reboot to keep perfomance always seem to track back to a driver or app that never "leaks" memory. More ram or more cpu cannot help that much. Allison >a timer plug to cut the power once a day for 15 minutes so it never >got too bad. Mind you you had to do all the configuration before you >started capturing images as the computer would start to fail to respond >to keyboard events once the webcam software had started. > >Matthew Buckett From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 1 12:53:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Mobo Question Message-ID: <015201c0bad6$851b2410$ec779a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >I have a Packard Bell setup and an HP, both of which use an EISA bridge >(according to the signon) and EISA-looking riser card, at right angles in the >case of the PB and parallel to the really small lower card in the HP. Both have >ISA expansion and PCI as well, and both have video, etc. (all the usual mobo >stuff) on the lower board. Could be but since its a slim lince case even if it were EISA it would have to be shorter in height. Most of the boxen that require the 120 or so pin card do it for mechancical reasons and the busses can be ISA, EISA, and the AT&T I have has ISA, EISA and even PCI on the right angle card! Allison > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ajp166" >To: >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:22 PM >Subject: Re: Mobo Question > > >> From: Lanny Cox >> >> >> >It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally >> mentioned. It >> >looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), >> but is >> >a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does support >> the >> >riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, serial and >> >parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. >> >> >> Thats the case. Most pizza boxen that are under 5" high have to mount the >> card >> horizontally so the do the 120 pin connector and riser with the cards >> plugging into >> the riser sideways. >> >> I have a AT&T P100, Dell 486DX and Dell 386sx/16 all using risers like >> that. >> >> Allison >> >> > From curt at atari-history.com Sun Apr 1 13:26:14 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: NeXT equipment update References: Message-ID: <3AC772C6.6DBF61DB@atari-history.com> Hi everyone, Ok, just wanted to give everyone an update, myself and a guy located in PA named Lincoln will be going down this coming week, probably April 7th or 8th to meet with David and pick up the 40 NeXT workstations, monitors, printers and so forth, I've got everyones names who was interested in one, just to bring everyone up to speed, since so many wanted the chance at getting a NeXT station, but noone wanted to buy the entire lot for $1,000 plus it had to be picked up. I'm putting up the cash for this, picking everything up (with the help of Lincoln) and all those who are interested in a workstation are welcome to one and can have one for $35 plus the cost of a box, packaging and shipping to your home/office. This way this find doesn't wind up in the garbage where it originally almost did when U of Penn upgraded one of its student labs with new computers. Curt From sipke at wxs.nl Sun Apr 1 13:52:04 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: TI59/58 Diagrams aviable Message-ID: <000901c0badc$d8f85a20$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hi Folks, TI-59/58 Diagrams !!!! (I've also posted this message on the oddcalc list) I've come accross an old schoolproject that "M.B. van der Mark" once wrote. It details a lot about the TI59 hardware. The material is very old though and cannot be scanned with good quality, it is also written in dutch. So I took it upon myself to revamp and translate this material. For starters I made a new drawing of the TI59/58 schematic. In the coming weeks (or month) I will add the diagrams for the powersupply, the PC100 Printer .... and the abbreviated translation of the rest of the material that details some of basics of operation of this marvelous programmable calculator. I will put this material on my website at http://xgistor.ath.cx Drill down to: Go Files >> Various Downloadble Files >> TI59 You can mail any comments via this list of if you prefer to contact me directly: click on the e-mail link of my main page. Sipke de Wal ----------------------------------------------- "Vini Vidi Foooooooooooooooooooooootshy" ----------------------------------------------- ps: I any of you out there have a site that covers TI59/58 stuff. Feel free to make a link to my page It is a dynamic DNS though, so it can be down occasionally for a few minutes . From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Apr 1 14:05:17 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Quadruple IDE lead?? In-Reply-To: <000201c0bad4$d6710ca0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010401120517.009b9d40@192.168.42.129> At 18:54 01-04-2001 +0100, Pete wrote: >http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/46884899 > >This claims to be a quadruple IDE lead... I thought IDE only allowed for 2 >devices per controller? Am I wrong about this? Per I/O port, actually. Many IDE interfaces have two channels. Still doesn't help. IDE is IDE. No matter what "enhancements" they kludge onto it, it'll never come close to SCSI's flexibility. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sun Apr 1 14:22:23 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games Message-ID: <42660537@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Another one I remember is Spectre VR, a now-defunct 3-d tank game that's been around for awhile...I remember that there was a shareware or freeware version that was single-player only, but the commercial version supported many networked players as long as each had a unique serial number registered. Should run fine on just about any color Mac -- it fits on a floppy and is pretty streamlined as 3d games go. Any Hacks N' Cracks database or other decent serial number compilation will have plenty of serial numbers for you to use. Another good one, but probably too processor-intensive for the really old Macs, is Terminal Velocity. Also defunct. This was an easy-to-play flight simulator type game with nice graphics and sound. There's also Marathon, which has been around awhile, but may be again too new for the older machines. It's also a good bit more involved -- probably too hard for very young kids to get into. Good luck, HTH... -- MB From elecdata at kcinter.net Sun Apr 1 16:28:35 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: TI59/58 Diagrams aviable References: <000901c0badc$d8f85a20$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3AC79D82.AFF56FCD@kcinter.net> Howdy, I'd be interested in joining the oddcalc list, what is it's address? Thanks Bill Sipke de Wal wrote: > Hi Folks, > > TI-59/58 Diagrams !!!! > > (I've also posted this message on the oddcalc list) > > I've come accross an old schoolproject that "M.B. van der Mark" once > wrote. It details a lot about the TI59 hardware. The material is very old > though and cannot be scanned with good quality, it is also written > in dutch. > > So I took it upon myself to revamp and translate this material. For > starters I made a new drawing of the TI59/58 schematic. > > In the coming weeks (or month) I will add the diagrams for the > powersupply, the PC100 Printer .... and the abbreviated translation > of the rest of the material that details some of basics of operation > of this marvelous programmable calculator. > > I will put this material on my website at > http://xgistor.ath.cx > > Drill down to: Go Files >> Various Downloadble Files >> TI59 > > You can mail any comments via this list of if you prefer > to contact me directly: click on the e-mail link of my > main page. > > Sipke de Wal > ----------------------------------------------- > "Vini Vidi Foooooooooooooooooooooootshy" > ----------------------------------------------- > > ps: I any of you out there have a site that covers > TI59/58 stuff. Feel free to make a link to my page > It is a dynamic DNS though, so it can be down > occasionally for a few minutes . From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 1 14:35:24 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: <200104010338.UAA05142@calico.litterbox.com> <001501c0ba7e$17156e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AC782FC.54F89870@internet1.net> EISA?? That doesn't sound right to me. Some of those computers even have PCI slots, but how could PCI run through an EISA slot? Would that be a huge restriction? Most of the ones I have seen are either ISA, with only ISA slots for the cards, or some other proprietary connector, and/or cables. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Richard Erlacher wrote: > > These slots for expansion were EISA in many cases, e.g. HP, Packard Bell, etc. > > Dick From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 1 14:53:15 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AC7872B.5BE460F3@internet1.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > Most excellent progress. A useful command is 'SHOW DEVICE' which will tell > you what devices and more importantly what type of disks you have installed. I did try that. I came up with 3 HDs, ethernet, and something else. I'll have to recheck it and right it down. > 44M means you have 40 MB + the on-board 4MB on the KA640 CPU. Thus you have > a fairly rare 32MB memory card and an 8MB card installed, or you have two > 16's and an 8. I'm betting though its the former. I think I have 2 16s, and an 8. If I am thinking correctly, I have 3 memory boards total > Next look at all the cards that are installed from the front and write down > the 'M' numbers and post them to the list, we'll ID them for you. If there > are blank connectors, be sure to remove those and look behind them, > sometimes cards have no external connection. I'll right these down too. > Sounds like one of the disks was pulled (which usually means that part of > the system was installed on a disk in an expansion box) Normally, a good > sys admin will make sure that the box can boot without any external disks > attached but that isn't always possible. If a whole disk is missing, it must have been external, as all of my bays are used. > Well, since its bootable you should probably install a new copy of the OS > on it. Either VMS or NetBSD will work fine on the machine. (a better > variety of languages in VMS and its more authentic) Install media is easier > to get for NetBSD and its license free. I didn't think NetBSD supported the internal DSSI controller? > It will be useful to determine if you have a SCSI interface in this machine > as that would enable you to use a SCSI CD-ROM to install software (much > faster than tape!) I thought I did, at first. That card I thought was SCSI is a serial card, I think. It has the same little double arrows on it as the console port, even if the connectors are centronics 50. Will it take anything special in a cdrom, or will anything scsi work? I have an old 4Plex stashed away some place. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 1 15:57:13 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 In-Reply-To: <3AC7872B.5BE460F3@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010401135255.01f0d2d0@208.226.86.10> At 02:53 PM 4/1/01 -0500, Chad wrote: >I did try that. I came up with 3 HDs, ethernet, and something else. >I'll have to recheck it and right it down. ... >... If a whole disk is missing, it must have been external, as all of my >bays are used. Interesting, notice the "ready" light on the disks, are they all on? This it turns out is also a push button switch. When it is pressed in the disk is made "on-line" and when it is out it is off line. You should get that incredibly amusing DSSI 'seek calibration test' on all disks that are enabled. Its possible you've just pushed one of the buttons and disabled a disk VMS was hoping to use. >I think I have 2 16s, and an 8. If I am thinking correctly, I have 3 >memory boards total Ok, I've seen 5 port connector straps (allowing for 4 mem boards) but it was on a custom box. >I didn't think NetBSD supported the internal DSSI controller? It doesn't (yet) however with a KFQSA in there you can run the disks and it is supported or you can use a SCSI interface to external devices (or and SDI interface to external devices) >I thought I did, at first. That card I thought was SCSI is a serial >card, I think. It has the same little double arrows on it as the >console port, even if the connectors are centronics 50. Yup, the CXY08. Nice serial card, easy to program, supported by NetBSD. >Will it take anything special in a cdrom, or will anything scsi work? I >have an old 4Plex stashed away some place. The 4Plex should work fine on it, *if* you have a SCSI interface in there. --CHuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 1 16:03:14 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 In-Reply-To: Chad Fernandez "Re: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400" (Apr 1, 14:53) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> <3AC7872B.5BE460F3@internet1.net> Message-ID: <10104012203.ZM10899@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 1, 14:53, Chad Fernandez wrote: > That card I thought was SCSI is a serial > card, I think. It has the same little double arrows on it as the > console port, even if the connectors are centronics 50. Are the arrows like a left and right angle bracket (more properly called chevrons or a "greater than" and "less than") with three dots between? That's the standard symbol for a network interface, and a 50-way Centronics-style connector is what used to be used to connect a "harmonica". A harmonica is a distribution block with a 50-way input and (usually) 12 10baseT ports. If I were you, I'd take that card out and have a look at it, it might be interesting. What was this machine used for? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk Sun Apr 1 16:17:26 2001 From: M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk (M.Buckett) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <015401c0bad6$85f5a590$ec779a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Apr 01, 2001 01:59:18 PM Message-ID: > >>For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB> >>of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job > > > >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its > >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. > > > Huh? What about linux, freebsd, and friends.? Drivers for the webcam (Creative Webcam 1) only really existed for Windows 95. A linux driver is about on the net but it looks pretty beta. Matthew Buckett From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Apr 1 16:53:28 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Apr 1, 2001 09:47:13 am" Message-ID: <200104012153.f31LrSi03004@bg-tc-ppp919.monmouth.com> > >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its > >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. > > OS/2 Warp Connect supposedly provides all of the missing > network functionality of the earlier Version 3 Wap. Ver. 3 happily > runs in 8meg with bot DOS and Windows support included. > > Jeff I'm not sure about happily. I think 12-16mb is more realistic if you want good response. Also, 16mb is the MINIMUM with networking... I've got a laptop IBM 486/75 which will soon run either WarpConnect or Warp4... but it's limited to 24 mb of memory. WfW 3.11 works pretty well in it with TCP/IP networking enabled, but the newer Warp4 may be a bit slow with the load and less than 32mb... especially if you need to run Netscape Communicator or IE under it. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 1 13:02:13 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010401220132.HIIN703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:44:44 -0400 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: Apple LWPro parallel port? > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >What's so bad about the 6100? My mum has one and it seems reasonably fast. > >Sadly my dad went on some kind of "computer literacy" course (ie. lessons How disgusting that dad had the throughts to toss that mac. If that man is really set on doing that, toss towards me. ;-) I really mean it. > The only bad points about the 6100 are that it uses the > HDI-45 video connector designed for use with their 14" AV monitor, as > well as the AAUI connector for the ethernet. A lot of people don't Snip! > solid machine though. This connector is very minor quibble the major one is it does not have *vram*! The video memory is reserved in one area in main memory (1MB). Remember, video scanning is constantly on the go therefore stealing just too much of bandwidth on memory access during that. That means the scrolling, general performance and graphic work is poor. I know because I work on many shared memory video computers like SP97-V motherboard for example. In that mode it's sluggish but with a real video card, it's fast as any good decent computers are. Try a video card in that 6100, performance will jump up. When I found out this info, I was deflated because that means I must spend getting the 601 PDS to nubus adapter bracket and video card, cache stick if that 6100 didn't have it when I swap out orignal board in my 610. That made me lose interest because parts in total cost more than just buying a complete 6100 box off ebay but negative thing if cost is over 30, exhange rate hurts. FYI: 1MB cache stick do *exist* but very expensive appox 80US each on ebay. Works in 6100/7100/8100. Question: When those x100's was sold new did these machines has 256K cache stick by default or optional item? This is important question because I want to keep sellers honest if I ever decide to buy one of those parts or a x100 system > Jeff Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 1 13:08:05 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200104012153.f31LrSi03004@bg-tc-ppp919.monmouth.com> References: from Jeff Hellige at "Apr 1, 2001 09:47:13 am" Message-ID: <20010401220724.WGSW24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Bill Pechter > Subject: Re: Apple LWPro parallel port? > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:53:28 -0400 (EDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip > > > > Jeff > > I'm not sure about happily. > > I think 12-16mb is more realistic if you want good response. > Also, 16mb is the MINIMUM with networking... I've got a laptop IBM 486/75 > which will soon run either WarpConnect or Warp4... but it's limited to 24 > mb of memory. 16MB is about that minimum but netscape breaks more often, more ram the merrier and more stable. Sounds like you have a TP 701? Nice notebook! I have one as well. > WfW 3.11 works pretty well in it with TCP/IP networking enabled, but the > newer Warp4 may be a bit slow with the load and less than 32mb... > especially if you need to run Netscape Communicator or IE under it. Netscape and some apps (like office 9x, 2K is hog on resources. Stick to netscape 3.x if possible for low end machines. > Bill Cheers, Wizard From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 1 17:50:58 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? Message-ID: <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> From: M.Buckett >> >>For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB> >>of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job >> > >> >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its >> >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. >> >> >> Huh? What about linux, freebsd, and friends.? > >Drivers for the webcam (Creative Webcam 1) only really existed for Windows 95. >A linux driver is about on the net but it looks pretty beta. Understood. Though the W95 version sounds beta too. That the biggest problem with W9x systems, apps and drivers (other than the base ones supplied) are often pretty poor. Under Win/NT4 I've had my pain with tape and video drivers plus the usual apps that leak memory. Allison From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 1 17:55:46 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200104012153.f31LrSi03004@bg-tc-ppp919.monmouth.com> References: <200104012153.f31LrSi03004@bg-tc-ppp919.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >I think 12-16mb is more realistic if you want good response. >Also, 16mb is the MINIMUM with networking... I've got a laptop IBM 486/75 >which will soon run either WarpConnect or Warp4... but it's limited to 24 >mb of memory. Warp 3 (not Warp Connect) runs fine on 8MB of RAM on the P70. I've never actually tried Warp Connect or Warp 4. I plan on trying to load Connect on it in the next couple of weeks to see how it works. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 1 18:02:35 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <20010401220132.HIIN703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20010401220132.HIIN703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >This connector is very minor quibble the major one is it does not >have *vram*! The video memory is reserved in one area in main memory >(1MB). Remember, video scanning is constantly on the go therefore >stealing just too much of bandwidth on memory access during that. Oh yes...I forgot about that point. It would've been nice if it had the VRAM upgrade of other PPC machines. The PowerCurve came standard with 1meg VRAM and was upgradable to 4meg. >Try a video card in that 6100, performance will jump up. When I >found out this info, I was deflated because that means I must spend >getting the 601 PDS to nubus adapter bracket and video card, cache >stick if that 6100 didn't have it when I swap out orignal board in my >610. I have a NUBUS video board (Radius PrecisionColor 24x) but have never used it because it won't work with the Sonnet CPU upgrade. The Apple AV PDS card is supposed to but it's not faster than the onboard video, just offers more output options. >FYI: 1MB cache stick do *exist* but very expensive appox 80US each >on ebay. Works in 6100/7100/8100. Question: When those x100's was >sold new did these machines has 256K cache stick by default or >optional item? This is important question because I want to keep >sellers honest if I ever decide to buy one of those parts or a >x100 system Yes, 256k was the standard cache DIMM size. 1MB was the maximum that could be used. The cache was optional on the 6100/60. Not sure if it was optional or standard on the 6100/66. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 1 18:57:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <641.492T1550T575195optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB >>of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. Network services in what sense? I can't really think of any sixteen-bit OS without networking. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > (It's sorta like sed, but not. It's sorta like awk, but not. etc.) Guilty as charged. Perl is happily ugly, and happily derivative. --Larry Wall in <1992Aug26.184221.29627@netlabs.com> From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 1 18:43:03 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> References: <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >Understood. Though the W95 version sounds beta too. That the biggest >problem with W9x systems, apps and drivers (other than the base ones >supplied) are often pretty poor. Under Win/NT4 I've had my pain with >tape and video drivers plus the usual apps that leak memory. One of the biggest headaches I have at the moment is trying to support the Palm Desktop on NT workstations. The install never goes the same way twice. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com Sun Apr 1 19:03:47 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Today only ... Message-ID: <200104020003.QAA11090@stockholm.floodgap.com> Today only ... http://lowendmac.com/high/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If a seagull flies over the sea, what flies over the bay? ------------------ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Apr 1 19:02:56 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <3AC6C364.82868A97@internet1.net> Message-ID: <008701c0bb08$460f1560$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 3:27 PM Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 > I did boot the machine... well sort of. It tells me that it has OpenVMS > Vax version 6.2, major version 1, minor version 0. A relatively recent, quite good, version of VMS. > It also reports pagefile.sys, not found. Probably on a drive that's not present. > The licenses are expired, VMS hobbyist license will fix that one. All my VMS licenses are non-expiring, unlimited user, so I'm lucky. ;^) > it was shutdown improperly, Trivial to fix, no big deal. > the disk is full, just needs a house cleaning of the system disk probably > and that a whole bunch of files are > inaccessible, Missing some drives, or they could even be on another system if it was in a cluster. >and then eventually goes back to the >>> prompt. > > What now? 1) get the license sorted out. 2) A clean install of VMS would be ideal, (the hobbyist license allows you to install virtually all current versions of the VMS layered products as well, and 48mb is a respectable amount for a microvax, so it should handle VMS 7.x ok. If you can't or don't want to, the one you have is almost certainly fixable, just needs reconfiguring for the present drive config I'd say. O/S files are unlikely to be anyware other than the system disk, so the missing files are probably for other things you may not want or need. Post a capture of the boot if you like, and we can take a look and see what it's missing. (an old pc with telemate or something like that makes a great console - and you can export the captures easily) I use a PS/2 Model 30-286 on the Vax 6000-440 at work. 3) If you prefer Unix, NetBSD runs on Microvaxen. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com Sun Apr 1 19:22:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: NeXT equipment update In-Reply-To: <3AC772C6.6DBF61DB@atari-history.com> from Curt Vendel at "Apr 1, 1 02:26:14 pm" Message-ID: <200104020022.QAA11716@stockholm.floodgap.com> > Ok, just wanted to give everyone an update, myself and a guy located in > PA named Lincoln will be going down this coming week, probably April 7th or > 8th to meet with David and pick up the 40 NeXT workstations, monitors, > printers and so forth, I've got everyones names who was interested in one, Could you post who you have reservations from? (I hope I'm one!) Thanks, Curt! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Intel outside -- 6502 inside! ---------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 1 19:37:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:46 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <3AC782FC.54F89870@internet1.net> Message-ID: <1030.492T600T973753optimus@canit.se> Chad Fernandez skrev: >EISA?? That doesn't sound right to me. Some of those computers even >have PCI slots, but how could PCI run through an EISA slot? Would that >be a huge restriction? Most of the ones I have seen are either ISA, >with only ISA slots for the cards, or some other proprietary connector, >and/or cables. Don't pay any attention to the riser connector whatsoever. Computer manufcaturers will just use whatever comes in handy, is cheap and plentiful. So of course they will use common connectors which they will have in store and sort out the actual expansion slots on the daughterboard. I just think it's sad that there is no standard for slimline motherboards and their risers. I wouldn't mind being able to put together flat desktops or really thin towers out of standard components, but as long as there is no standard form factor, everything home-made will have to be bloated tower of some kind. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Ky?suke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Apr 1 19:38:50 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: vaxstation 4000/vlb Message-ID: <200104020038.SAA09061@calico.litterbox.com> Anything I should know about my new vaxstation 4000/vlb that I picked up on ebay for 47 bucks plus shipping? My intent is to replace my somewhat dead 3100 with it. (I sort of got the replacement memory board installed *backwards * and things went downhill from there. It's probably not really dead, but 8 megs of RAM just isn't enough.) I intend to run the thing headless, btw. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 1 18:40:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: <200104020003.QAA11090@stockholm.floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Today only ... > > http://lowendmac.com/high/ Ooooh, the site that posted that Steve Jobs "rumor" could get in a *LOT* of trouble with the SEC. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From red at bears.org Sun Apr 1 19:59:57 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Today only ... > > > > http://lowendmac.com/high/ > > Ooooh, the site that posted that Steve Jobs "rumor" could get in a *LOT* > of trouble with the SEC. For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple stock these days? Is my memory in need of service again? ok r. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 1 16:08:22 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <1030.492T600T973753optimus@canit.se> References: <3AC782FC.54F89870@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010402010742.JPSX703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: 2 Apr 2001 1:37:12 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: Mobo Question > To: "Chad Fernandez" > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Chad Fernandez skrev: > > >EISA?? That doesn't sound right to me. Some of those computers even Your throughts is right, aren't EISA. That "eisa" like slot is Intel's only design on many of their LPX boards. Not EISA standard. It's just merely a connector choices they took for PCI and ISA risers. I'm sure your "eisa" slot riser type LPX machines some of yours is intel LPX boards. IBM used both by buying some boards from Intel's and making their boards as well as standard 120pin LPX types. Sometimes lt looks like long PCI style with pieces of straight through crackers (usually 3 of them) between that and daughterboard slot riser. Connectors but all the same it's just design choices. BTW, your WDC 386sx board is standard LPX w/ 120 pin riser slot. If you have a old IBM desktop box with 120 pin riser and standard AT power connector pair, try these. > Don't pay any attention to the riser connector whatsoever. Computer > manufcaturers will just use whatever comes in handy, is cheap and plentiful. > So of course they will use common connectors which they will have in store and > sort out the actual expansion slots on the daughterboard. > Correct, Some of them are standards some aren't. PCI spec doesn't take much pins even it has 32 traces plus other wirings, so other pins on that "eisa" riser connector is plenty. In fact, upper contacts is ISA in pinout, while bottom contacts are for PCI but pinouts is not. Cheers, Wizard From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 1 21:12:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! Message-ID: <911.492T300T1924001optimus@canit.se> For some reason, I've been encountering a lot of EISA systems recently. It doesn't seem like such a nice bus, much like MCA, but at least in theory, it beats ISA. What bothers me, though, is the fact that there doesn't seem to be any central repository for the configuration files needed, unlike MCA adaptor description files, which have been neatly collected by Peter Wendt et al. Despite much googling, I've been unable to find drivers for my Netflex-2 ethernet card, and finding one for my NE3200 proved to be a real struggle as well. What a bother. Does anyone have any EISA links to recommend, or the configuration file for the Netflex-2? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A Spanish MSX Group "Matra" visited to this Fair. I lent Spanish stand to them. They showed and did Promotion play of SEX BOMB BUNNY. And this Game has tema song of Majingar-Z! Why they know Japanese TV animation? K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 1 20:25:12 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: <015201c0bad6$851b2410$ec779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <002101c0bb13$c3e4d320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The EISA is just about the size of the ISA, isn't it? I've never had an interest in EISA so haven't looked at 'em in detail, but is seems to me that, since the ISA boards plug directly into an EISA slot, they must be the same size. That would suggest that if the bridge board is bigger than the normal ISA slot, it's probably not an EISA either. (?) Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Mobo Question > From: Richard Erlacher > > > >I have a Packard Bell setup and an HP, both of which use an EISA bridge > >(according to the signon) and EISA-looking riser card, at right angles > in the > >case of the PB and parallel to the really small lower card in the HP. > Both have > >ISA expansion and PCI as well, and both have video, etc. (all the usual > mobo > >stuff) on the lower board. > > > Could be but since its a slim lince case even if it were EISA it would > have to > be shorter in height. Most of the boxen that require the 120 or so pin > card > do it for mechancical reasons and the busses can be ISA, EISA, and the > AT&T > I have has ISA, EISA and even PCI on the right angle card! > > Allison > > > > > >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "ajp166" > >To: > >Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2001 10:22 PM > >Subject: Re: Mobo Question > > > > > >> From: Lanny Cox > >> > >> > >> >It's about 2 1/2 times bigger than a PCI slot, as i originally > >> mentioned. It > >> >looks a lot like an ISA port (ISA style connectors and black casing), > >> but is > >> >a lot bigger. There's only one connector on the mobo, which does > support > >> the > >> >riser card theory. Luckily, the system has onboard video, serial and > >> >parallel ports, etc. so it won't be so bad. > >> > >> > >> Thats the case. Most pizza boxen that are under 5" high have to mount > the > >> card > >> horizontally so the do the 120 pin connector and riser with the cards > >> plugging into > >> the riser sideways. > >> > >> I have a AT&T P100, Dell 486DX and Dell 386sx/16 all using risers > like > >> that. > >> > >> Allison > >> > >> > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 1 20:26:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: <200104010338.UAA05142@calico.litterbox.com> <001501c0ba7e$17156e60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AC782FC.54F89870@internet1.net> Message-ID: <002d01c0bb14$03a292e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I made the observation that the connector looked like EISA. Just because the edge connector is the same doesn't mean that IS EISA, though it may just be using the same connector for signal transport. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: Re: Mobo Question > EISA?? That doesn't sound right to me. Some of those computers even > have PCI slots, but how could PCI run through an EISA slot? Would that > be a huge restriction? Most of the ones I have seen are either ISA, > with only ISA slots for the cards, or some other proprietary connector, > and/or cables. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > These slots for expansion were EISA in many cases, e.g. HP, Packard Bell, etc. > > > > Dick > > From spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com Sun Apr 1 20:34:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Apr 1, 1 08:59:57 pm" Message-ID: <200104020134.RAA11116@stockholm.floodgap.com> > > Ooooh, the site that posted that Steve Jobs "rumor" could get in a *LOT* > > of trouble with the SEC. > > For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple stock > these days? Is my memory in need of service again? He's the CEO, so I would hope he has a little bigger stake than that ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I see nothing! Nothing! -- Sgt. Schultz, "Hogan's Heroes" ------------------ From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 1 20:34:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: SMSC 34C6x devices wanted. References: Message-ID: <003d01c0bb15$0be5f0e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Tony's remarks re: IDE drive interface, etc piqued my interest in this SMSC peripheral-side parallel port interface chip. However, I don't see anyplace that offers them for sale any longer. Does anybody know of any sources fora few (small number 2 I seem to have a couple disk II interface and 1 parallel cards for appleII machines, if anyone has need of these critters they are available for $5 (to cover shipping and getting them to the shipping location, i'm currently outta work, but if these are useful to you, they're yours.) From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Apr 1 21:31:24 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331025023.0254c2c0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010401193016.02553520@mail.zipcon.net> http://www.blackbox.nl/techweb/connect/db15hd.htm it's a DB15HD, if you go to google and search, a heckuva lot of hits come up for it. looking in a "Pocket PC-Ref" book I have also referrs to it as DB15HD. the D shell looks to be the same size as a DB-9 At 06:43 PM 3/31/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > I've seen the VGA plug referred to as DB15HD > >I could believe DE15HD, or HDE15. But not DB-anything -- it's not a size >B shell after all (which is how this thread got started...) > >-tony From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Apr 1 21:39:12 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: SparcServer 1000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010401193457.02555ec0@mail.zipcon.net> 501-2541 - motherboard, 0 MB, (2) SM51, [SS1000] 501-2336 - motherboard, 0 MB, FRU, [SS1000] http://www.sunstuff.org/hardware/partnumbers/501/2/3/3/6/ The 2336 is a Field Replacement Unit, no specs on processors on it, the 2541 is a dual SM 51 (55 ish Mhz proc) board. The SBUS is at 20 Mhz. You will need to look at the Barcode #'s on the MBUS CPU modules to tell what speed they are, the barcode is -USUALLY- on the MBUS connector so you mau have to pull the modules from the board to find out. I would expect that the modules on both of your boards are SM 51's. Information is part from memory, part from http://www.sunstuff.org http://www.sunstuff.org/hardware/partnumbers/motherboards.shtml At 01:43 PM 3/31/01 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings, > >Is anyone here familiar with the Sun SparcServer 1000 systems? This >morning, I picked one up at a hamfest; it has two CPU boards in it, >each, it appears, has 4 CPUs. I was able to identify one of the >boards from it's part number from what I found on the net; appears to >have 20MHz CPUs; the other board is a higher number, but I've found >little data for it this far. The CPU boards are: 501-2336 and >501-2541. Does anone have any data on these? > >Being unfmamiliar with multiprocessor systems, I'm wondering how fast >this will be in comparison to my 170MHz Ultra-1; slower for some >things and faster for others, I guess, while consuming much more >power---is this correct? > >Wow, this is one heavy machine! In order to figure out if Solaris 8 >can run on it, do I count the total amount of memory in the system, or >the amount of memory per CPU? Haven't identified the memory in it >yet, but one CPU board has 12 banks filled. > >-- >Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: >All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom >rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, >http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010401/af71653c/attachment.html From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Apr 1 21:28:53 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: <911.492T300T1924001optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010401192853.009b9df0@192.168.42.129> At 03:12 02-04-2001 +0100, Iggy D. wrote: >Despite much googling, I've been unable to find drivers for my Netflex-2 >ethernet card, and finding one for my NE3200 proved to be a real struggle as >well. What a bother. Who makes the NetFlex-2, Iggy? I may have something here. Bear in mind that many of the full-length EISA Ethernet cards seem to use a common config file. Let me know. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 1 21:51:05 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple stock > these days? Is my memory in need of service again? ISTR an interview with WOZ in which he said that he had sold all but one share of his Apple stock in order to be the smallest stockholder. Is Jobs also going to keep one share? What does it mean when the CEO of a company sellos off all of his stock? From smerrell at thevilla.org Sun Apr 1 21:06:14 2001 From: smerrell at thevilla.org (smerrell@thevilla.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: RE; Macintosh Classics Message-ID: Is anyone in the Seattle area or close by interested in taking a bunch of old Mac Classics and SE's off of my hands (approx 30)?? All are in working condition. Please contact me for more information. From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 1 22:23:02 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! References: <911.492T300T1924001optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3AC7F096.E8D6E6F4@internet1.net> Do you know the filename? I'll look through mine, if I have a name :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Iggy Drougge wrote: > > For some reason, I've been encountering a lot of EISA systems recently. It > doesn't seem like such a nice bus, much like MCA, but at least in theory, it > beats ISA. What bothers me, though, is the fact that there doesn't seem to be > any central repository for the configuration files needed, unlike MCA adaptor > description files, which have been neatly collected by Peter Wendt et al. > Despite much googling, I've been unable to find drivers for my Netflex-2 > ethernet card, and finding one for my NE3200 proved to be a real struggle as > well. What a bother. > > Does anyone have any EISA links to recommend, or the configuration file for > the Netflex-2? From red at bears.org Sun Apr 1 22:32:41 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: <3AC7F096.E8D6E6F4@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Do you know the filename? I'll look through mine, if I have a name :-) I think Compaq rebadged a few different models of Netflex boards. Perhaps you'd have luck on their site. ok r. From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 1 21:21:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > Ooooh, the site that posted that Steve Jobs "rumor" could get in a *LOT* > > of trouble with the SEC. > > For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple stock > these days? Is my memory in need of service again? You are correct, but for people who don't know this it could cause a knee-jerk reaction to sell off Apple stock. I don't think you're even allowed to joke about shit like that. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 1 21:24:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple stock > > these days? Is my memory in need of service again? > > ISTR an interview with WOZ in which he said that he had sold all but one > share of his Apple stock in order to be the smallest stockholder. Is Jobs > also going to keep one share? Never heard the Woz thing but now that I think of it (r.), Jobs actually has many shares of Apple, but his salary is $1 per year. > What does it mean when the CEO of a company sellos off all of his stock? It could mean many things, usually all bad :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From curt at atari-history.com Sun Apr 1 22:38:57 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: NeXT equipment update References: <200104020022.QAA11716@stockholm.floodgap.com> Message-ID: <002f01c0bb26$72ac74f0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi Cameron, Yes, I will do that, I was supposed to Friday but got tied up, I will make a point to post everyone who has currently asked for a Nextstation Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:22 PM Subject: Re: NeXT equipment update > > Ok, just wanted to give everyone an update, myself and a guy located in > > PA named Lincoln will be going down this coming week, probably April 7th or > > 8th to meet with David and pick up the 40 NeXT workstations, monitors, > > printers and so forth, I've got everyones names who was interested in one, > > Could you post who you have reservations from? (I hope I'm one!) > > Thanks, Curt! > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Intel outside -- 6502 inside! ---------------------------------------------- From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 1 22:54:17 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! References: Message-ID: <3AC7F7E9.E29ABA49@internet1.net> The EISA SCU should ask for a specifec filename. Thats all I need, to look through my files. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Do you know the filename? I'll look through mine, if I have a name :-) > > I think Compaq rebadged a few different models of Netflex boards. Perhaps > you'd have luck on their site. > > ok > r. From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 1 22:56:43 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> <3AC7872B.5BE460F3@internet1.net> <10104012203.ZM10899@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3AC7F87B.86B7B8D6@internet1.net> Pete, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Are the arrows like a left and right angle bracket (more properly called > chevrons or a "greater than" and "less than") with three dots between? Nope, more like an arrow pointing left, and an arrow pointing right. With a "0-3" below one, and a "4-7" below the other set. >What was this machine used for? Computin stuff I guess :-) I have no idea, really :-) From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 1 23:33:53 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401135255.01f0d2d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AC80131.B417A7C3@internet1.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > Interesting, notice the "ready" light on the disks, are they all on? This > it turns out is also a push button switch. When it is pressed in the disk > is made "on-line" and when it is out it is off line. You should get that > incredibly amusing DSSI 'seek calibration test' on all disks that are > enabled. Its possible you've just pushed one of the buttons and disabled a > disk VMS was hoping to use. The 2 RF35 (I think that's the number) don't have the cables hooked up for the panel. I assumed they didn't use the panel. Am I wrong on this? They look like later, more modern drives to me, so I thought they wouldn't use the panel, and I didn't see any place to hook them up. The drive mounted lights do come on. > > >I think I have 2 16s, and an 8. If I am thinking correctly, I have 3 > >memory boards total > > Ok, I've seen 5 port connector straps (allowing for 4 mem boards) but it > was on a custom box. Mine seems to have a standard 4 connector cable. If I made a cable, how many memory boards could I use? > Yup, the CXY08. Nice serial card, easy to program, supported by NetBSD. CXY08, is exactly it. > The 4Plex should work fine on it, *if* you have a SCSI interface in there. Good. What should I look for in a SCSI card? When I do get a SCSI card, should I remove the TK70, or just mount the cd-rom in an external case? I would like the cd-rom internal, but I don't know how important that TK70 might be. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Apr 2 00:03:26 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010401192853.009b9df0@192.168.42.129> References: <911.492T300T1924001optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010401220326.009c3420@192.168.42.129> Gad, I'm dense today... An hour after I posted my original query, I remembered that one of my servers used a NetFlex-2 (Compaq origin), and that I most certainly have the .CFG file for it. The problem is that, as others have pointed out, the SCU will ask for a specific filename, and Compaq did not make their .cfg filenames too obvious as to which one goes with which device. Iggy: If you can tell me which file the thing is asking for, I'll vacuum it off my SCU disks and E-attach it to you. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From red at bears.org Mon Apr 2 00:16:49 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010401220326.009c3420@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, Bruce Lane wrote: > The problem is that, as others have pointed out, the SCU will ask for a > specific filename, and Compaq did not make their .cfg filenames too obvious > as to which one goes with which device. They're just text. Part of the specification for a .cfg is that it have a descriptive name in it. Like this sample excerpt from !bus4201.cfg: BOARD ID = "BUS4201" NAME = "BusLogic 32 Bit Bus Master EISA-to-SCSI Host Adapter (v2.00)" MFR = "BusLogic" ok r. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 2 00:35:19 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 Message-ID: <200104020537.AAA46742@opal.tseinc.com> 4/1/01 7:33:53 PM, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >The 2 RF35 (I think that's the number) don't have the cables hooked up >for the panel. I assumed they didn't use the panel. Am I wrong on >this? They look like later, more modern drives to me, so I thought they >wouldn't use the panel, and I didn't see any place to hook them up. The >drive mounted lights do come on. They should use the panel. There is a 10 pin header that is nestled between the power plug and the 50 pin DSSI plug, that is where a 10 pin cable goes from the drive to the back side of the disk bulkhead. That also sets the unit numbers for the drive. Perhaps someone set them up to override the unit numbers because they were short of plugs or something. When you type 'sho dev' they show up as DIAxx what numbers do the drives show up as? >Mine seems to have a standard 4 connector cable. If I made a cable, how >many memory boards could I use? As many as you can fit, however the CPU is limited to addressing 64MB of RAM so you can't get more than that. Also the 4MB disables itself if you install a full 64MB (4 x 16MB is common) >> The 4Plex should work fine on it, *if* you have a SCSI interface in there. > >Good. What should I look for in a SCSI card? Existence. :-) Actually SCSI cards for this beast aren't hard to find, they are just hard to afford for many collectors. You want a SCSI card with an 'sbox' handle. Examples are the Emulex UC-08, CMD CQD-223, etc. I prefer the CMD ones but Emulex, Dilog, and others made them. You can buy them all day for $500 each from DEC resellers. On Ebay they go for less than $300 usually, and of course if you buy a couple of tons of VAXen before they get scrapped you can often salvage one or two. I sold one as part of a cherry 4000/200 and now I kinda wish I hadn't (I just got a VAX 4000/700A that I _really_ would like to put a SCSI drive on.) If you get one with non-Sbox handles you will either have to adapt a blank Sbox "bar" to mount the connector or you will have to run the cable out from between the bars. I've done both. Alternate mechanisms to getting a SCSI CD-ROM are to get an RRD40 controller (slow but it works!) You may be able to find a DEC reseller who will sell you the drive and controller for less than $100. > When I do get a SCSI >card, should I remove the TK70, or just mount the cd-rom in an external >case? I would like the cd-rom internal, but I don't know how important >that TK70 might be. No doubt the TK70 will be critical if you find a piece of software that only comes on the original TK50 media. I prefer my VAXen to sport a TKxx drive. Something I've been doing lately is making 'vax boxes' which are 2 unit SCSI cases with a VAX compatible CD-ROM drive and a removable SCSI drive. Then I get a couple of trays for the SCSI drives (these are pretty cheap these days) and put VMS on a 200 - 500Mb SCSI disk and NetBSD on a 1GB disk (not that NetBSD is that much less efficient, just that I like room to build kernels and such.) Then one can swap out disks to run different OS'es. Mounting the CDROM in the case will be problematic and frankly doesn't get you all that much. --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Apr 2 02:37:27 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: Geoff Reed "Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment)" (Apr 1, 19:31) References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010331025023.0254c2c0@mail.zipcon.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20010401193016.02553520@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <10104020837.ZM11298@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 1, 19:31, Geoff Reed wrote: > http://www.blackbox.nl/techweb/connect/db15hd.htm > it's a DB15HD, if you go to google and search, a heckuva lot of hits come > up for it. looking in a "Pocket PC-Ref" book I have also referrs to it as > DB15HD. the D shell looks to be the same size as a DB-9 As Tony pointed out, it can't properly be a "DB" anything, since a standard 9-pin shell is DE. Just because some people commonly refer to it as DB doesn't mean it's correct, after all lots of people call the standard 9-pin shell a DB. Amp, for example, refer to their entire standard series as "DB" but that's not what most other manufacturers do. McMurdo refer to the type used for VGA as HDE15 (and the next sizes up as HDA26 and HDB44) which seems much more likely to be correct. And I wouldn't particularly believe BlackBox, they're just one reseller. > At 06:43 PM 3/31/01 +0100, you wrote: > > > > > > I've seen the VGA plug referred to as DB15HD > > > >I could believe DE15HD, or HDE15. But not DB-anything -- it's not a size > >B shell after all (which is how this thread got started...) > > > >-tony > -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Apr 2 02:41:10 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 In-Reply-To: Chad Fernandez "Re: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400" (Apr 1, 22:56) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010401013331.02a8b6d0@208.226.86.10> <3AC7872B.5BE460F3@internet1.net> <10104012203.ZM10899@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AC7F87B.86B7B8D6@internet1.net> Message-ID: <10104020841.ZM11304@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 1, 22:56, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Pete, > > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Are the arrows like a left and right angle bracket (more properly called > > chevrons or a "greater than" and "less than") with three dots between? > > Nope, more like an arrow pointing left, and an arrow pointing right. > With a "0-3" below one, and a "4-7" below the other set. Then it ain't what I was thinking of. Fortunately someone else posted more useful info last night :-) > >What was this machine used for? > > Computin stuff I guess :-) I have no idea, really :-) Much like most of mine, then. Though a few are used as door furniture :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 2 02:17:33 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: AtariTel prototypes found Message-ID: I just posted a bunch of pictures of some prototype Atari stuff I found today at a local electronics flea market. Thanks to Curt Vendel's Atari Historical Society website (http://www.atari-history.com) I've learned that they are prototype boards for AtariTel, which was supposed to be a breakthrough new business phone system but Atari never released it. I have what look to be the initial raw prototypes and then etched prototype development boards, and then an almost complete phone (missing the handset and top cover). There's also a hacked handset used during development and a rough prototype of the case made from plexiglass. From the scanned preliminary product description document found on AHS, I learned that the project inception was in 1981. The boards I got have either 1983 or 1984 copyright dates on them. There was also an unlabeled hacked carthridge in the pile (not pictured). I don't know if the ROM is still good on it though. It's been in a pretty rough climate. If it does work I imagine it has some interesting code on it perhaps. The whole pile of cards looked as though they had been sitting in a box outside under a tree or something. The solder traces were starting to corrode and chip leads starting to rust. I cleaned off a lot of bug and leaf debris and lots of dirt. It's a shame they had to be stored like this, but I guess the guy who designed this stuff didn't think it was significant. Also in the pile were some odd items. There was a board labelled "Misty 001". Is this related to something else? There was also a home-made acoustic coupler box. I don't know what it's purpose is, but it had an Atari serial connector on the back. Both of these are pictured. The photos are at: http://www.siconic.com/crap/AtariTel Sorry I didn't label the pictures properly. You'll just have to go through and check them all out if you're at all interested in this. It was really cool discovering this stuff. In their heyday, Atari hand their hands in everything it seems. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 05:52:47 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Fred, That page saying that Jobs was going to sell off his stock was their annual April Fools days joke. Jeff >On Sun, 1 Apr 2001, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: >> For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple stock >> these days? Is my memory in need of service again? > >ISTR an interview with WOZ in which he said that he had sold all but one >share of his Apple stock in order to be the smallest stockholder. Is Jobs >also going to keep one share? > >What does it mean when the CEO of a company sellos off all of his stock? -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 2 03:28:07 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <015401c0bad6$85f5a590$ec779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >>>For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB >>>of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job >> >>The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its >>the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. > > >Huh? What about linux, freebsd, and friends.? For Net WORK sure, but for net play the games want w95 for network connectivity. Sorry for not being more specific, but what I meant was the game may run under DOS, but only supports netplay under W95, and in most cases doesn't run under any other OS option. BTW after reading a lot of boxes for requirements I am a bit surprized at how many still support DOS, albeit often in a crippled mode (sound, network, etc.). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 2 03:21:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: <42660537@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: >There's also Marathon, which has been around awhile, but may be again too >new for the older machines. It's also a good bit more involved -- probably >too hard for very young kids to get into. Marathon is one I didn't remember, and as a general tip for things old and mac, check www.lowendmac.com which has LOTS of tips etc generated over the years on the various email lists Dan Knight ran/runs. I also strongly recommend doing what I do, BUY old software and use legal copies. What you "do" teaches kids more than what you" say", and running a lot of bootleg software (except for MS products) gives the wrong message. Showing that a bunch of old computers can still be a LOT of fun is the RIGHT message. From jss at ou.edu Mon Apr 2 07:19:40 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Today only ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010402071514.00a708f8@pop.ou.edu> >That page saying that Jobs was going to sell off his stock was their >annual April Fools days joke. > >> For some reason I thought Jobs held only a single share of Apple >> stock these days? Is my memory in need of service again? Ha! Given the knee-jerk reactions of stock traders that someone has already mentioned, this seems like a really stupid thing to do -- a blunder of almost IBM "obliterated my computer" proportion. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Apr 2 06:36:49 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <200103312228.PAA03874@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Mar 31, 01 03:28:57 pm Message-ID: <200104021136.HAA17300@wordstock.com> > > The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the > OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 were > a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if you're > patient. But do useful work? Ha. > I can confirm that it will boot... I did tech support for this person who had just such a beast. It took about 10 minutes to boot. The poor hard drive just kept grinding away the whole time. And this machine was used to take care of their accounting. Bryan From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 2 08:45:12 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: References: <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010402074211.02383340@pc> At 07:43 PM 4/1/01 -0400, you wrote: > One of the biggest headaches I have at the moment is trying to support the Palm Desktop on NT workstations. The install never goes the same way twice. I happily installed several Palm versions under NT without incident, including several official closed betas, dev kits, etc. It was WinCE that completely hosed my WinNT. There is no removal option, no way to turn it off. Unbelievable. I'd had Palm on it before, but now the COM2: is just gone, nothing can access it. - John From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Apr 2 07:54:44 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010401220326.009c3420@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010402055444.009af750@192.168.42.129> At 01:16 02-04-2001 -0400, Bear wrote: >They're just text. Part of the specification for a .cfg is that it have a >descriptive name in it. > >Like this sample excerpt from !bus4201.cfg: Yes, all true. However, the design of the descriptor was left up to the manufacturer. Compaq chose to put 'CPQ' in the front part of all their .CFG filenames, and a four-digit number following it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 2 09:06:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010401192853.009b9df0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <854.492T350T9063823optimus@canit.se> Bruce Lane skrev: >At 03:12 02-04-2001 +0100, Iggy D. wrote: >>Despite much googling, I've been unable to find drivers for my Netflex-2 >>ethernet card, and finding one for my NE3200 proved to be a real struggle as >>well. What a bother. > Who makes the NetFlex-2, Iggy? I may have something here. How silly of me, it's a series of ethernet and tokenring board made by Compaq, available both for ISA, EISA, PCI and integrated on a lot of mobos. > Bear in mind that many of the full-length EISA Ethernet cards seem to use >a common config file. This one is hakf-length, albeit very wide. As for the NE3200, I found that Intel hade made an EtherExpress based on the same design, so you're correct about the full-length boards. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon X Campaign Against / \ HTML Mail! From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 2 09:09:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Bring on the EISA mafia! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010401220326.009c3420@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <562.492T1600T9094929optimus@canit.se> Bruce Lane skrev: > Iggy: If you can tell me which file the thing is asking for, I'll vacuum >it off my SCU disks and E-attach it to you. I'm sorry, I'll have to reinstall the "SCU" first, then. I overwrote it while installing OpenBSD. Oh, I really hate OpenBSD's fdisk/disklabel with a vengeance. Makes NetBSD's seem modern and user-friendly. I'll try to do it this evening when I've managed to scrounge some HD disks (I'm still in a DD world =). -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 08:48:25 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010402134825.60561.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- "M.Buckett" wrote: > > >>For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB> > >>of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job > > > > > >The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its > > >the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc. > > > > > > Huh? What about linux, freebsd, and friends.? > > Drivers for the webcam (Creative Webcam 1) only really existed for Windows > 95. A linux driver is about on the net but it looks pretty beta. I built a 486SLC box in a tiny case with a 2-slot ISA riser card for my WebCam. There was only enough room for the I/O card (parallel port) and network card. No Video. The OS is LRP, Linux Router Project. I grabbed one of the implementations of the Connectix QuickCam drivers for Linux, ncftpput and a looping script and smashed them together into a ".lrp" file. It does take 8Mb of RAM, but that's because LRP loads from a single floppy and decompresses to a RAM drive. Once this thing boots, it never references the floppy again. The evidence is at http://penguincentral.com/webcam/ -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 08:51:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Classic MAC "network" games? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010402135134.95972.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> > >I am sending off a bunch of compact MACs to the "familly compound" where we > >have our many familly holiday gatherings. I had accumulated over 30 of > >these, mostly Classics and Classic IIs. > >I was not into games when these were popular so...anybody remember any good > >titles that could be played head-to-head on these? NetTrek -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 08:53:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010330113227.00b897b0@pc> Message-ID: <20010402135327.12660.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 03:22 PM 3/29/01 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people > >stock DB23 connectors. > > Has the world forgotten how to hack-saw two pins/sockets > off a regular -25? :-) I've seen that on commercial products - Genlocks, mostly. It works OK for converting a DB-25S, but it gets ugly for a DB-25P. Fortunately, I still have one or two Amiga connectors I got back in the bad old days. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Apr 2 09:07:41 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games Message-ID: Re: Spaceward Ho, Friends and I have been playing that in a big group annually for > 10 years. My Mac Plus has participated in *every* annual Ho-a-thon, and is still my preferred Ho machine (though I switch to the PB3400 when we switch to Marathon!). Info and order at http://www.delatao.com/ho/index.html I'll be happy to answer more questions about it off-list. Strongly recommended. There's a demo at that website. Also: Armor Alley. I think this is not sold, not available freeware/shareware, just deceased. That is a *real* shame, it was a *good* game. Only up to 4 players though. - Mark From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Mon Apr 2 10:17:46 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games Message-ID: <42702323@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Mike Ford wrote: I also strongly recommend doing what I do, BUY old software and use legal copies. What you "do" teaches kids more than what you" say", and running a lot of bootleg software (except for MS products) gives the wrong message. Showing that a bunch of old computers can still be a LOT of fun is the RIGHT message. --- end of quote --- Thank you for the morality lesson. However, when games are defunct and the software companies no longer exist, I don't see a piracy issue with using those programs freely. Or perhaps I should tear down my Lisa software FTP server? I was not advocating ripping off commercial software, and I rather resent that implication. If the makers of Spectre VR are still around and still selling/supporting their older stuff, I'll happily send in my payment. I doubt that they are, but it would be easy to find out and act accordingly. If they're NOT around or are no longer supporting their program, then they have nothing to lose by your using it freely. They've already made their money and moved on. As a semi-parallel, Penguin Classics are re-releases of classic literature sold for about $2 each because the copyrights and/or royalty requirements have expired over time. I view ancient software similarly (and yes, I would pay a token fee like $2 for an old game, if there were anyone left to take the money). Your classic Mac might as well be a boat anchor if you can't run something on it. -- MB From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Apr 2 10:35:59 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: TEK 4693D In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010329122502.019960d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I have a question for the list. I have a classic printer, a Tektronix 4693D and a stash of supplies to keep it running. I hate Ebay. Would people here be interested in or object to an informal Email auction?? This thing is big and I really need to reclaim the space it is using. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 2 11:27:57 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: <42702323@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010402102736.01e6dd20@pc> At 11:17 AM 4/2/01 -0400, you wrote: >If the makers of Spectre VR are still around and still selling/supporting their older stuff, I'll happily send in my payment. I doubt that they are, but it would be easy to find out and act accordingly. If they're NOT around or are no longer supporting their program, then they have nothing to lose by your using it freely. They've already made their money and moved on. OK, ask Moses: http://www.ideafactory.com/idea_factory_moses.html - John From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 2 10:55:28 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <004601c0b92e$14318e00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from Richard Erlacher at "Mar 30, 2001 08:28:32 am" Message-ID: <200104021555.IAA15285@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Yes, and the "female" was called a DsnS (S for socket) where s was shell-size > and n was for populated number of pins, and P/S for gender. Which brings me to the seond tirade. :) The reason to use pins and sockets it that the sex of a socket is female, but the overall sex of the connector containing the sockets is male for D connectors. (If you don't see what I mean, find a D connector and look at it.) Likewise for a connector with pins, the pins are male but the overall connector sex is female. In other words, the sex of a D coonector is indeterminate. Most people will use male for the pins, but in my work I've run into people (generally outside the US) who use the connector sex. Using P and S is unmistakable. Eric From mwp at acm.org Mon Apr 2 10:45:47 2001 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games References: <42702323@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <005d01c0bb8b$fc6ca240$0200a8c0@swbell.net> Couldn't have said it better myself. I get so tired of reading complaints about piracy with respect to unsupported and unavailable software. It's nice to see that not everyone is afraid to stand up and challenge such mindless legalism. With respect to the Penguin books, such a thing would be possible with software today, were it not for the fact that copyrights for computer software are, for all intents and purposes, eternal. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Bates" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Classic Mac Network Games > --- Mike Ford wrote: > I also strongly recommend doing what I do, BUY old software and use legal > copies. What you "do" teaches kids more than what you" say", and running a > lot of bootleg software (except for MS products) gives the wrong message. > > Showing that a bunch of old computers can still be a LOT of fun is the > RIGHT message. > --- end of quote --- > > Thank you for the morality lesson. However, when games are defunct and the software companies no longer exist, I don't see a piracy issue with using those programs freely. Or perhaps I should tear down my Lisa software FTP server? I was not advocating ripping off commercial software, and I rather resent that implication. > > If the makers of Spectre VR are still around and still selling/supporting their older stuff, I'll happily send in my payment. I doubt that they are, but it would be easy to find out and act accordingly. If they're NOT around or are no longer supporting their program, then they have nothing to lose by your using it freely. They've already made their money and moved on. > > As a semi-parallel, Penguin Classics are re-releases of classic literature sold for about $2 each because the copyrights and/or royalty requirements have expired over time. I view ancient software similarly (and yes, I would pay a token fee like $2 for an old game, if there were anyone left to take the money). Your classic Mac might as well be a boat anchor if you can't run something on it. > > -- MB From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 2 11:01:53 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Mar 31, 2001 06:43:40 pm" Message-ID: <200104021601.JAA15428@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > > I've seen the VGA plug referred to as DB15HD > > I could believe DE15HD, or HDE15. But not DB-anything -- it's not a size > B shell after all (which is how this thread got started...) Isn't it just a DE-16 with pin 9 missing? Eric From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 2 11:12:01 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:47 2005 Subject: FastPath (was Re: OT: Apple LWPro parallel port?) In-Reply-To: <200103310442.XAA00505@ultimate.com> from Phil Budne at "Mar 30, 2001 11:42:10 pm" Message-ID: <200104021612.JAA15680@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:09:49 -0800 > > From: Mike Ford > > > > Got any FastPath docs? > > I do, plus, I was software lead on the FastPath at Shiva in the early > 90s. I did the FastPath 4+ and FastPath 5. Are they available anywhere? Scannable, etc. I have one of the boxes around, but no docs. Eric From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 2 10:53:31 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: <005d01c0bb8b$fc6ca240$0200a8c0@swbell.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Michael Passer wrote: > With respect to the Penguin books, such a thing would be possible with > software today, were it not for the fact that copyrights for computer > software are, for all intents and purposes, eternal. Perhaps, but in this case, I think the best thing to do is to have one big defunct software repository up on the net somewhere and let people have at it for free. Avoids piracy issues if the rights holder suddenly turns up and demands their software be removed. Many sites exist to dispense defunct software, but they still operate on the fringe due to zealots. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 2 12:08:35 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <20010402135327.12660.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people > > >stock DB23 connectors. > > off a regular -25? :-) > I've seen that on commercial products - Genlocks, mostly. It works OK for > converting a DB-25S, but it gets ugly for a DB-25P. Fortunately, I still > have one or two Amiga connectors I got back in the bad old days. I found that it was ugly only in a completely literal way -- it definitely LOOKED ugly. When I got my first Amiga 1000 in 1986?, I could not find a source for D(almostB)23P, so I cut off one end of the shell and the last two pins of a DB25P. It worked just fine, except that you had to look while connecting, as it was now POSSIBLE to plug the connector in offset from its correct position. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From owad at applefritter.com Mon Apr 2 12:46:08 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: <42702323@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> References: <42702323@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <20010402174608.25891@mail.lafayette.edu> >If the makers of Spectre VR are still around and still selling/supporting >their older stuff, I'll happily send in my payment. I doubt that they >are, but it would be easy to find out and act accordingly. If they're NOT >around or are no longer supporting their program, then they have nothing >to lose by your using it freely. They've already made their money and >moved on. In that vein, one particularly excellent old game that _can_ still be purchased in its original format is Dark Castle . Delta Tao sells its Color Dark Castle for $32. For an additional $5 one can upgrade* to the original black and white Silicon Beach version. It's not networkable, but it is a superb game. Tom *My word, not theirs. :-) Applefritter www.applefritter.com From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 2 12:53:42 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: SparcServer 1000 In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Mar 31, 2001 01:43:11 pm" Message-ID: <200104021753.KAA17623@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Being unfmamiliar with multiprocessor systems, I'm wondering how fast > this will be in comparison to my 170MHz Ultra-1; slower for some > things and faster for others, I guess, while consuming much more > power---is this correct? With 3 CPUs your 1000 will probably give you close to the floating point performance of your Ultra 1 on a typical cruncing application (13 MB/processor) well distributed among the CPUs (no memory contention). I don't know about integer performance because I don't deal too much with it. The I/O busses in your Ultra-1 are likely to be faster in Ultra-1 than in the 1000. Depending upon the number and vintage of the disk drives in each this may or may not be a constraint. The 4 processor 1000 I have access to here clocks in a 0.00053 second Ahl's simple benchmark (4 process multiprocessing). The Ultra-10 (350MHz) on my desk does about 0.00078 seconds. Of course that's a 7k executable, so it caches pretty well, but the 1000 beats the Ultra in raw CPU. The 1000 has a non-Sun CPU upgrade, so its times should be better than a stock 1000. Of course the primary difference will be memory bandwidth. The Ultra-10 can move 123 MB/s (stream_d) while 1000 is lucky to get 32 MB/s. Eric From bpope at wordstock.com Mon Apr 2 13:27:45 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: <20010402174608.25891@mail.lafayette.edu> from "Tom Owad" at Apr 2, 01 01:46:08 pm Message-ID: <200104021827.OAA29321@wordstock.com> > > In that vein, one particularly excellent old game that _can_ still be > purchased in its original format is Dark Castle darkcastle.html>. Delta Tao sells its Color Dark Castle for $32. For an > additional $5 one can upgrade* to the original black and white Silicon > Beach version. > Are you talking about the game where you run around a castle throwing rocks at birds, rats and bats? The one with *great* sampled sounds?! > *My word, not theirs. :-) > Sometimes the classics are better in black and white? :-) Bryan From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Mon Apr 2 03:28:57 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Amiga questions Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36117A@exch002.softwright.co.uk> hi, >>It's true. In general, IDE tends to be a fairly raw interface, although as >>machines have evolved, it's not as raw as back in the 386 days. > >It's worth pointing out that the A4000 was buffered, though. There are >buffered IDE multiplexers abvailable so that one might add four ATAPI devices >at once. I've got an unbuffered one on the 4000, though I've since removed the >three sub-gigabyte drives with a single bigger one. Someone said that some people have fried unbuffered amigas by trying to fit CDROM drives to them - the current draw is bigger and cooks the CPU. That may well be myth though - surely the IDE spec says things about current limitations as well as protocol? (although I don't doubt that there are one or two bad drives out there) Oh, I fell foul to ebay - that A3000's almost tripled in value over the weekend. Think I'll give it a miss in future (first time I've tried ebay)... rather wait for something to turn up where I know what the asking price is! (fair dues on the A3000 though, it did seem like a bargain at the original price given how loaded up it seemed to be - I got fed up dealing with inherent web time delays though and got bored bidding on Friday) I think I'll keep scouring local ads and loot for a 1200 or something... > There is a free NFS server port on Aminet, > http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/aminet/comm/tcp/nfsd_bin991130.lha > I'd probably go with that in a UNIX environment, though it seems to have a > tendency to fluctuate in speed a lot. I suspect this has got something to do > with the virtual inode which it goes about creating, but suddenly performance > drops a whole lot and drive activity gets quite intense. well as long as something works :-) Back when I used to use the A500 a lot I used to have to boot a PC XT emulator and copy files via floppy that way - it was really quite painful! (Can't remember the name of the emulator now) > BTW, I got my first Speccy today! Can't wait to see if it's a 48K or 16K > version. Now I only have to get one of those cassette recorders. =) now you're talking! The best computer ever... :-) Hopefully it's a 48K, I don't think much will run on the 16K version, they never were that popular. Ahh, the days of interfaces falling out of the back of the machine, constantly tweaking tape head alignment to get anything to load, broken keyboard membranes etc. etc. ;) cheers for the help, Jules From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 2 13:00:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Mobo Question In-Reply-To: <002101c0bb13$c3e4d320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 1, 1 07:25:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010402/2dd61160/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 2 13:05:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010401193016.02553520@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Apr 1, 1 07:31:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1359 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010402/54f6a111/attachment.ksh From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Apr 2 13:59:11 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Looking For MC6800 Site In-Reply-To: from "Owen Robertson" at Mar 31, 2001 11:02:33 AM Message-ID: <200104021859.LAA14941@eskimo.com> Owen Robertson wrote (in private e-mail to me): > Well, I was hoping to find diagrams of a simple system someone else had > created, so that I could study it and get ideas. I was also looking for > information on address decoding circuitry. The information I have is likely to be at the chip level rather than the board level. But I'll see what I can do. I'm replying to the list because private mail to your From: address (univac at earthlink dot net) keeps bouncing. -- Derek From owad at applefritter.com Mon Apr 2 14:15:57 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: <200104021827.OAA29321@wordstock.com> References: <200104021827.OAA29321@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20010402191557.28568@mail.lafayette.edu> >> In that vein, one particularly excellent old game that _can_ still be >> purchased in its original format is Dark Castle > darkcastle.html>. Delta Tao sells its Color Dark Castle for $32. For an >> additional $5 one can upgrade* to the original black and white Silicon >> Beach version. > >Are you talking about the game where you run around a castle throwing rocks >at birds, rats and bats? The one with *great* sampled sounds?! That's the one. >> *My word, not theirs. :-) >> >Sometimes the classics are better in black and white? :-) The color version won't run on my Mac 512k. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Apr 2 14:20:52 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Interesting Commodore CSG info Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E587979F@MAIL10> Hello, all: I came across this link at the EPA about Commodore CSG. Not unexpected, but interesting none the less. http://www.epa.gov/reg3hwmd/super/commodor/menu.htm Rich From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Apr 2 14:34:56 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Interesting Commodore CSG info Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797A3@MAIL10> A quick follow-up: It also appears that GMT Microelectronics, the group of CSG people that in 1994 purchased the CSG operation from the failed Commodore have themselves failed or were purchased. Their Web site is dormant and in February someone purchased the domain name. Their phone numbers are "busy." Any info on this? Rich From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Apr 2 14:41:52 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Status Register 4-95 Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797A4@MAIL10> More interesting CSG stuff... http://www.cucug.org/sr/sr9504.html <> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Status Register 4-95.url Type: application/octet-stream Size: 141 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010402/ccd10075/StatusRegister4-95.obj From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 2 14:47:44 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: Message-ID: <001101c0bbad$c9750680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You're certainly correct in that publishing a bit of information in a particular place doesn't make it fact. However, calling the small serial port connector commonly seen on some DEC and all PC/AT equipment a DB9 is definitely wrong. As always, it's easier to find nomenclature that's quite obviously wrong than it is to find out what is right. However, it's a matter of finding out what is right, not of inventing it, as folks in the business BlackBox is in are often inclined to do, not only be cause they have to "do something ... even if it's wrong" in order to give their product a name and description, but in order to communicate to their customers what, more or less, it is they'd like to sell. The fact that none of us seem to be able to make up our minds doesn't help a thing. The notion of naming sub-d connectors for the shape, shell size, and number of pins certainly went down the toilet when they started packaging the same shell with pins of differring position density. This notion was started by one connector manufacturer and was resisted by a couple of their major competitors. It did work much better than the 30-digit part number you'd have had to look up from the catalog in order to specify completely any of their products. The fact that we're still kicking this thing around after so many years is an indication of how sticky a problem it really is. Please see additional remarks embedded below Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:05 PM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > > > http://www.blackbox.nl/techweb/connect/db15hd.htm > > it's a DB15HD, if you go to google and search, a heckuva lot of hits come > > up for it. looking in a "Pocket PC-Ref" book I have also refers to it as > > DB15HD. the D shell looks to be the same size as a DB-9 > > > I thought this whole thread started by somebody (IMHO correctly) pointing > out that there was no such thing as a DB9 [1] and that the correct name > for that connector is a DE9. The letter after the 'D' indicates the size > of the connector shell. > Based on the notion I mentioned above, and the very example you pointed out, there should, indeed have been just such a part descriptor. Under that scheme, however, there could have been quite a number of other combinations that also got the same moniker, even though the pin arrangement was quite different. > [1] Apart from the non-serious suggestion of mine that it should be used > for a DB25-size connector with only pins 1-8 and 20 fitted. This > connector was used on RS232 cables at one time. But I digress. > > So the 'correct' name for the VGA monitor connector can't be a DB > _anything_. It must be a DE something. DE15HD or HDE15, or just plain > DE15 would seem logical. > > Incidentally, because a name is commonly used by the PC-crowd, or because > it's printed in PC 'hardware' books [2] doesn't make it correct. I can > name a dozen things that are incorrectly named by such people (my > favourite being 'going into the BIOS' when they mean the BIOS parameter > table. The BIOS is a program in ROM). > > [2] I am not sure how anyone can write a hardware book without a single > schematic or timing diagram, but the PC-crowd seem to manage it. > They have to write what their intended readers can understand. After all, lots of people have made lifelong carreers of hooking up computer equipment without ever concerning themselves with a schematic or logic diagram. Conflicting practices made this difficult, but by staying with a single vendor, one could eventually figure out what each connector at the bulkhead represented, e.g. DB25S meant DTE, DB25P meant DCE, and so on, and do pretty well with that. However, another vendor might have the convention differently implemented, i.e. DB25S implies RS232, and if pin 20 is populated, it's DTE, etc. You get what I mean (I hope). > -tony > > From peter at joules.org Mon Apr 2 15:10:46 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Quantum support archives gone? Message-ID: <000001c0bbb1$098bdb60$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> I just tried to look up a Quantum drive on their site and could not find the archives any more. Certainly the links produced by a Google search for mthe drive are either dead or redirected to their index page. Is this another company which has just decided to remove all of their historic documents or am I looking in the wrong place? -- Regards Pete From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 2 15:30:07 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Quantum support archives gone? In-Reply-To: <000001c0bbb1$098bdb60$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010402132934.02745ef0@208.226.86.10> Quantum just exited the disk drive business. I guess their web master assumed that means to yank all disk related content. --Chuck At 09:10 PM 4/2/2001 +0100, you wrote: >I just tried to look up a Quantum drive on their site and could not find the >archives any more. Certainly the links produced by a Google search for mthe >drive are either dead or redirected to their index page. > >Is this another company which has just decided to remove all of their >historic documents or am I looking in the wrong place? > >-- >Regards >Pete From gareth.knight at btinternet.com Mon Apr 2 16:12:35 2001 From: gareth.knight at btinternet.com (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Amiga questions References: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD36117A@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <000601c0bbb9$af99a5c0$0101010a@pentium2> Julian Richardson > well as long as something works :-) > Back when I used to use the A500 a lot I used to have to boot a PC XT > emulator and copy files via floppy that way - it was really quite painful! > (Can't remember the name of the emulator now) Most likely it would be Transformer (it was bundled with most early A500s) or PC Task. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com Home of the Amiga magazine guide, Complete Amiga prototype/official/clone list, and more! From kmar at lle.rochester.edu Mon Apr 2 16:10:04 2001 From: kmar at lle.rochester.edu (Kenneth L. Marshall) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Quantum support archives gone? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010402132934.02745ef0@208.226.86.10> References: <000001c0bbb1$098bdb60$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010402170850.00b1c8c0@popserver.lle.rochester.edu> Some archived information on Quantum disk drives can be found at Maxtor's home page (www.maxtor.com) under "product archives. Maxtor bought out quantum's disk drive operations. Regards At 01:30 PM 04/02/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Quantum just exited the disk drive business. I guess their web master >assumed that means to yank all disk related content. >--Chuck > >At 09:10 PM 4/2/2001 +0100, you wrote: >>I just tried to look up a Quantum drive on their site and could not find the >>archives any more. Certainly the links produced by a Google search for mthe >>drive are either dead or redirected to their index page. >> >>Is this another company which has just decided to remove all of their >>historic documents or am I looking in the wrong place? >> >>-- >>Regards >>Pete Kenneth L. Marshall Research Engineer, Optical Materials Laboratory for Laser Energetics University of Rochester 250 East River Road Rochester, NY 14623 Phone:(716)-275-8247 Fax: (716)-275-5960 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 2 16:25:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <001101c0bbad$c9750680$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 2, 1 01:47:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3900 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010402/877e72e6/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 2 16:55:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <20010402135327.12660.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <854.492T550T13754023optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- John Foust wrote: >> At 03:22 PM 3/29/01 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> >That's why it's a PITA. Finding cables for it is expensive and few people >> >stock DB23 connectors. >> >> Has the world forgotten how to hack-saw two pins/sockets >> off a regular -25? :-) >I've seen that on commercial products - Genlocks, mostly. It works OK for >converting a DB-25S, but it gets ugly for a DB-25P. Fortunately, I still >have one or two Amiga connectors I got back in the bad old days. If that holds true, then I'm not amazed that some people in another club who are using Amigas for subtitling managed to plug a genlock into the serial port. Bad idea. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 2 15:55:42 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Re: Spaceward Ho, Friends and I have been playing that in a big group >annually for > 10 years. My Mac Plus has participated in *every* annual >Ho-a-thon, and is still my preferred Ho machine (though I switch to the >PB3400 when we switch to Marathon!). Info and order at >http://www.delatao.com/ho/index.html >I'll be happy to answer more questions about it off-list. Strongly >recommended. There's a demo at that website. Look for Ho in bargain bins at Compusa etc., comes in PC and mac flavors. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 17:07:04 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Could someone please email me the MS-DOS utility SHIP.COM or PARK.COM (it differed in name depending on who's OEM DOS it was). I need to park a MFM hard disk prior to shipment. Thanks and take care. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Apr 2 13:55:10 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: Bryan Pope "Re: Apple LWPro parallel port?" (Apr 2, 7:36) References: <200104021136.HAA17300@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <10104021955.ZM11617@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 2, 7:36, Bryan Pope wrote: > > > > The thing is, Microsoft's memory recommendations tend to be the minimum the > > OS will function correctly. Remember the minimum requirements for win95 were > > a 386sx16 and 4 megs of ram. I'm told it will *boot* in that, if you're > > patient. But do useful work? Ha. > > > I can confirm that it will boot... I did tech support for this person > who had just such a beast. It took about 10 minutes to boot. The poor hard > drive just kept grinding away the whole time. And this machine was used to > take care of their accounting. I can second that -- I recently gave a friend a little compaq portable (I'd hestitate to call it a laptop!) which is a 386sx16. i tohught it had 2MB of RAM, but maybe it was 4MB -- anyway, it does boot, but it takes longer than 10 minutes. It takes even longer than that to boot linux! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 2 18:15:53 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: Message-ID: <001c01c0bbca$dd644da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, the ST412 physical interface is, unless I've missed something in the (insert ridiculously large number here) times I've done it in every way identical to the ST506. The only difference I've noted is that the ST412-series drives were capable of buffering the step pulses in order to compute fast seek velocity profiles. This is a firmware effect, not a hardware one, though the hardware had to be somewhat different. The controller local to the drive could, therefore implement some sort of PID algorithm. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 3:25 PM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > > > You're certainly correct in that publishing a bit of information in a particular > > place doesn't make it fact. However, calling the small serial port connector > > commonly seen on some DEC and all PC/AT equipment a DB9 is definitely wrong. > > Agreed. No way is that connector a DB anything.... > > As for incorrect information in print, PC-related books seem to be about > the worst for this. I've lost count of the number of such books that > contain misleading and just plain wrong information (much of it a lot > more serious than the DB/DE confusion). Another 'favourite of mine -- > NOT' is the 'MFM hard disk'. As I understand it, MFM refers to a > particular encoding scheme used to write bits on the disk and has nothing > to do with the interface. It is perfectly correct to talk about a SCSI > MFM drive, meaning a drive with a SCSI interface that happens to use MFM > encoding to write data to the disk. > > But the PC crowd seem to use (have used?) the term to mean a drive that > is designed to use MFM encoding at a 'raw' interface that is similar to > the de-facto standard defined by the ST412 hard disk. And which is > somewhat less similar to the interface on the ST506 hard disk (which is, > of course, the other name that it is often called). I remember > years ago buying a disk drive for my PC/XT and having a lot of difficulty > explaining just what I wanted. > > > The notion of naming sub-d connectors for the shape, shell size, and number of > > pins certainly went down the toilet when they started packaging the same shell > > with pins of differring position density. This notion was started by one > > There's no problem if you use the number to mean the total number of > available pin positions. Rememebr that the crimp-pin connectors, where it > is common to only populate some locations, came out a long time after the > original D connectors, which had all the pins (solder connection type) > fitted at the factory. So originally the number of pins and the number of > possible pin locations were the same. It's not clear, therefore, which > the number refers to. > > If you use that convention, then there is no problem. A DE9 is a PC/AT > serial port, a DE15 is a VGA monitor port and a DA15 is a joystick port > (if you'll forgive me being PC-centric for the moment). > > > > [2] I am not sure how anyone can write a hardware book without a single > > > schematic or timing diagram, but the PC-crowd seem to manage it. > > > > > They have to write what their intended readers can understand. After all, lots > > OK, but if I'd not call such a book a 'hardware bible' or a 'hardware > reference'. Those terms should imply some technical information... > The people willing to buy and rely on such things get what they deserve. Most of them don't read the things anyway. > > And don't get me started on so-called service manuals without schematics, > or timing diagrams, or even complete and accurate block diagrams. The > Torch XXX manual is probably the worst -- it doesn't contain one piece > of information that is not obvious from looking at the machine, and it > seems to bave been written for somebody with a mental age of 2 (and > that's being kind). > A catchy title will sell products so abysmally lacking in both value and underlying knowledge that anybody who would actually read such a thing would be appalled. > > Apart from the IBM Technical Reference manuals (which are excellent, > although rather dated), is there a good book on PC hardware? Because I've > yet to see anything I would spend any money on... > Frankly, I've yet to see a good book on PC-anything. > > > of people have made lifelong carreers of hooking up computer equipment without > > ever concerning themselves with a schematic or logic diagram. Conflicting > > practices made this difficult, but by staying with a single vendor, one could > > eventually figure out what each connector at the bulkhead represented, e.g. > > DB25S meant DTE, DB25P meant DCE, and so on, and do pretty well with that. > > It's odd, but I've never had any success doing things like that, even > when I use so-called compatible parts. But if I get the pinouts, and sit > down with a logic analyser (if the timing diagrams are not available), I > can generally get things to talk to each other. > The PC-generation wasn't when this started. I'm about (once I have time) to sit down with my S-100 hardware and produce logic analyzer snapshots and import them into my PC so I can use them in documenting what REALLY happens on the bus with each of a number of CPU boards. My experience has been that the documentation provided with CP/M-era hardware was often fraught with error and even with disinformation. The situation with PC-generation stuff seems to have been that the mfg's simply saved themselves the trouble of publishing disinformation about their products, since the PC was designed for people who'd see a logic diagram as being a foreign language anyway. > > -tony > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 2 18:53:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <001c01c0bbca$dd644da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 2, 1 05:15:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5107 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/1a35994d/attachment.ksh From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 2 18:57:52 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Quantum support archives gone? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010402132934.02745ef0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AC91200.A0E88E21@internet1.net> Quantun isn't going to make drives?? It hought they were supposed to be very good drives? What are they going to make now? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Quantum just exited the disk drive business. I guess their web master > assumed that means to yank all disk related content. > --Chuck From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 2 19:02:09 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Mobo Question References: Message-ID: <3AC91301.45E3883E@internet1.net> I had a Unisys 386dx-16 MB, built by Intel that had 32-bit "ISA" slots for memory cards. The back sections were standard ISA, so a standard ISA card could be used, but the closest sections were for the memory cards to used in conjuction witht e standard part. It was sort of like VLB, but the "extra" part looked ISA, not PCI like VLB does. The memory cards were cool looking, they were full size boards with many rows of SIPPS soldered in. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > The EISA is just about the size of the ISA, isn't it? I've never had an > > interest in EISA so haven't looked at 'em in detail, but is seems to me that, > > since the ISA boards plug directly into an EISA slot, they must be the same > > size. > > IIRC, EISA has a strange 2-level edge connector. ISA cards only go part > way into the slot, and connect to the top row of contacts (which have the > signals you'd expect on an ISA slot). EISA cards have a few notches cut > out of the edge finger area, so they go the full way in and connect to > both rows of contacts (EISA-specific signals on the lower row of contacts). > > Therefore EISA has about twice as many signals as ISA. It would be > possible to put them on a conventional edge connector about twice as long > as anm ISA slot. While this wouldn't be done for the actual expansion > slots (because no standard boards would fit), I can imagine it being done > for a custom riser card. > > -tony From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Apr 2 19:12:09 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: More Museum finds Message-ID: <017d01c0bbd2$baf94b00$dd721fd1@default> Over the last few weeks I have come up with the following finds: 1-Osborn (gray unit) with all the manuals and software that came with it new. I got the original papers it was purchased on 12/24/1982. 2-Apple QuickTake 100 digital camera in the box 3-Dr. DOS 6.0 complete. 4-Four reels of BASF tape - New 5-PB DUO 230 with dock 6-Motorola AlphaMate model N1383A 7-Penware 100 8-PB165 working unit no adapter 9-Multitech Micro-Professor MPF-I brand new unopened box 10-Mac Plus complete working unit donated to me. 11-HP 200LX palmtop PC working unit with lots extra's 12-Two early Mac promotional tapes used by dealers 13-HP 9100-5124 adapter 14-Core memory card, a really great find The other is not close to 10 years old yet so I will list it another time. Keep on computing John Keys From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 19:28:20 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >At least with S100 stuff (say) you often had schematics. And pinouts of >all the connectors. And data sheets for the chips. Some manufacturers >were better than others, of course, but few supplied only manuals that >were as bad as the so-called documentation you get with PC products these >days. Both of my kit systems (Heath/Zenith Z-100 and SWTPc 6809) have excellent manuals that go into the timing, schematics, and chip datasheets. Tandy used to have available seperately some excellent tech manuals on their various systems. I've got a number of them, including the nearly 400page service manual for the Model 2000. Osborne had a pretty serious set of tech manuals for their products as well, the ones for the Executive spanning 5 volumes, including the source for it's ROM monitor and BIOS. Atari did a similar manual for the 400/800. With most of today's systems, you're lucky to get any kind of manual at all. It's just as likely to be a flyer of just a few pages as it is to be a PDF file on the system CD. Certainly nothing that goes too in-depth into the actual hardware. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ip500 at home.com Mon Apr 2 19:35:11 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 drive pictures Message-ID: <3AC91ABF.665AD908@home.com> In case anyone wants to take a look ... I shot a couple of quick pictures of these huge IBM disk drives and stuck them: http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscfront.JPG http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdisccu.JPG http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscback.JPG No good reference for scale, but they are about 4' long X 2' dia and weigh approx 140 pounds [that's not including the motor & belt drive visable in picture 1]. These were mounted as pictured [upright], 2 to a cabinet, the motors were mounted above the drives and ran a 1.5" width belt down to the drive pulley. I can hardly beliefe these are circa 1985! Cheers, Craig From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 19:30:15 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Quantum support archives gone? In-Reply-To: <3AC91200.A0E88E21@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010402132934.02745ef0@208.226.86.10> <3AC91200.A0E88E21@internet1.net> Message-ID: >Quantun isn't going to make drives?? It hought they were supposed to be >very good drives? What are they going to make now? I've always had very good luck with Quantum drives. They're to be found in many a Mac and when I was using Amiga's constantly, the Quantum's seemed to be the preferred drive there as well. Fewer problems with them than any other type in my A3000 and A4000. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Apr 2 19:34:52 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) References: <3AC4BDD5.A7BEBE7E@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3AC8D7CA.96D8F149@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <00b701c0bbd5$e6b4a340$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunther Schadow" To: Cc: "Lord Isildur" ; "Brian Chase" ; "J. Buck Caldwell" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 5:19 AM Subject: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) > O.K. I now have the inventory of the VAXen. You can see the listing at > > http://aurora.regenstrief.org/VAX.html > > It's quite extensive. These are indeed four 6420 cabinets, though > basically 4 times an identical parts list, and no disk support at all. Typical Cluster setup. Pity you didn't get the HSC and other bits too. I'd give you one, but it's a little far to ship it. > One has a bad power unit. I will use that one as a resource for spare > parts. Unless anyone wants to repair the power unit, that will go to the > junk yard. Which PSU is crook? The mains input box, the 300V supply or one of the LV supplies? > One of the other machine's cabinets lacks a back door, so > I will even use the door from the machine with the broken power unit. > I'll save all boards, cables, and screws that I can get off easily. These are like a meccano set, everything unbolts pretty well, but you will wind up with a mountain of screws and washers. They suffer from what we used to call in the domestic electronics servicing industry 'cousin effect' - the designer had a cousin who owned a screw factory. :^) Someone once mentioned that a friend was attempting to build up one of these minus the cabinet, ie just the cages and psu's, it would be a little tricky, but probably possible, and it would make it a lot more compact. LV and HV PSU's may fail occasionally, and the TK70's are painful at times, everything else in there is ultra reliable. > The two machines I will give away will have 2 CPUs each and 256 MB RAM. Nice. > I will hold on to the spare parts in order to trade them for other > interfaces if necessary. We should get one SDI and one DSSI interface > at least, if not an SCSI interface. That would be good, the SDI would probably be the easiest to find, though not necessarily the easiest to support, with the XMI-BI stuff in the middle. > Matthew Hudson offered to donate SDI disk drives and perhaps a DSSI > interface card. The SDI drives are heavy (64 kg, according to Geoff.) If they are RA8x's, yes, big, awkward, heavy suckers, I can barely carry one on my own. RA9x's are around 30kg, weighty but tolerable, quite reliable and 1/3 the power/noise of the RA8x's. The RA8x's are power hungry and unreliable (the spindle bearings tend to pack up - the platters are 1/2 metre across and are belt driven!) not to mention very noisy. I have several, but do not use them anymore. RA7x's are house brick size/weight, with usual 5v/12v power, but you need at least the SA70 and the right SDI cabling (The cabling is the same for any SDI drive.) Trickier than it sounds, since you can't connect the black SDI's leads directly to the SA70 RA9x, RA8x, you need the cable and socket affair that is on the rack cabinet. You should be able to find some without too much trouble, if the RA8x's are in cabinets, the same cable loom will work with the SA70 enclosures or RA9x drives. 81's are 480mb, 82's are 620mb. 90's are 1Gb 91's 1.2Gb. 70's are 250mb, 71's 750mb, 72's 1Gb, 73's 1.2Gb (I think). You would just about fit one Ra8x in the bottom of a 6k, maybe, 2 RA9x's fit comfortably, and an SA70 is virtually the same dimensions as a single RA9x drive, so in theory you could fit 8 x RA7x's in their SA70s' in the bottom of a 6K, but you would need 2 KDB50s to support them. > Brian, you're organizing the truck for shipment to Bloomington? I'd > be most grateful if that truck would also bring my machine home in > Indy. We may need about 3 to 4 more hands. Ideal number for manual handling of 6k's is about six, and if the truck bed isn't too high, you can stick a thin mattress under them, lay them on their side on it, and slide them off onto a hard surface, then wheel from there, if the floor is smooth enough. A forklift is much easier though. ;^) Done it both ways. > If need be I'm willing to > accompany you to Bloomington to help with carrying the stuff you take. > Make sure you get a heavy cart and lots of strong and long straps. There > are carts that have a strap so you can get a tight hold of a > refrigerator or laundromat. > This works fairly well, but ask them what > the maximum load is, these boxes are about 300 kg (according to Geoff) > though mine may be lighter 'cause there are no disks or power backup > unit inside. The 318kg is bare machine weight, and does not include disks (which are not mounted internally in 6ks - my setup is nonstandard) or optional extras like the Battery backup pack, (do any of these have one??) which weighs about 40kg or so, (mostly the SLAC batteries). If you intend to do the 3phase-single phase conversion, you can save around 30kg by removing that bloody great autotransformer between the mains input box and the 300V supply. It's surplus to the conversion. Every little bit helps when you are moving something this heavy. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 2 19:36:00 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 drive pictures In-Reply-To: IBM 3380 drive pictures (ip500) References: <3AC91ABF.665AD908@home.com> Message-ID: <15049.6896.774943.69891@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 2, ip500 wrote: > In case anyone wants to take a look ... I shot a couple of quick > pictures of these huge IBM disk drives and stuck them: > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscfront.JPG > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdisccu.JPG > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscback.JPG > No good reference for scale, but they are about 4' long X 2' dia > and weigh approx 140 pounds [that's not including the motor & belt drive > visable in picture 1]. These were mounted as pictured [upright], 2 to a > cabinet, the motors were mounted above the drives and ran a 1.5" width > belt down to the drive pulley. I can hardly beliefe these are circa > 1985! Wow...that disk is BEEFY. What's the capacity on that beastie again? -Dave McGuire From ip500 at home.com Mon Apr 2 19:51:27 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 drive pictures References: <3AC91ABF.665AD908@home.com> <15049.6896.774943.69891@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AC91E8F.B70DF29E@home.com> I think I noted anywhere from 500 meg to 1.2 gig .. depending on the version. These are "E" type so I assume they were fairly late in the evolution. I was told they were providing storage for a 370. Craig Dave McGuire wrote: > > On April 2, ip500 wrote: > > In case anyone wants to take a look ... I shot a couple of quick > > pictures of these huge IBM disk drives and stuck them: > > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscfront.JPG > > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdisccu.JPG > > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscback.JPG > > No good reference for scale, but they are about 4' long X 2' dia > > and weigh approx 140 pounds [that's not including the motor & belt drive > > visable in picture 1]. These were mounted as pictured [upright], 2 to a > > cabinet, the motors were mounted above the drives and ran a 1.5" width > > belt down to the drive pulley. I can hardly beliefe these are circa > > 1985! > > Wow...that disk is BEEFY. What's the capacity on that beastie > again? > > -Dave McGuire From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 2 19:46:38 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Apr 2, 2001 06:07:04 pm" Message-ID: <200104030046.RAA25868@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Could someone please email me the MS-DOS utility SHIP.COM or > PARK.COM (it differed in name depending on who's OEM DOS it was). I > need to park a MFM hard disk prior to shipment. Thanks and take care. There's one at ftp://ftp.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/diskutil/park.zip I've got a 30 or so byte version of park on one of my home machines, but I won't be there for several hours. Depending upon how old you HD is, park might be entirely unnecessary. Also depending upon the machine. One of my machines parked the heads (by interrupt generated by the power switch) on every power down. I think this actually increased the frequency at which I had to do low level formats. I think parking actually caused the heads to become misaligned after a while. Eric From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Apr 2 20:02:56 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) References: <3AC4BDD5.A7BEBE7E@aurora.regenstrief.org> <3AC8D7CA.96D8F149@aurora.regenstrief.org> <00b701c0bbd5$e6b4a340$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <00ed01c0bbd9$d1cc5320$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Arrgh! Sorry. Grr, used the wrong address, the reply to was going to the poster instead of the list. Mumble. Too many lists I'm in... Sorry folks. At least it's on topic I guess.. Geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Roberts" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 10:04 AM Subject: Re: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 20:11:52 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: <200104030046.RAA25868@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <200104030046.RAA25868@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: >Depending upon how old you HD is, park might be entirely unnecessary. >Also depending upon the machine. One of my machines parked the heads >(by interrupt generated by the power switch) on every power down. I The drive is a Tandon TM-501 or 502 in a TRS-80 Model 2000 running DOS 2.00. I know neither the machine itself or the drive automatically parks on shutdown or after a timeout and Tandy's OEM version of DOS didn't include the utility either. My personal preference in the machine is the ST-225, but the Tandon in this one is still going strong as it only saw light use. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Apr 2 20:39:32 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Quantum support archives gone? In-Reply-To: <3AC91200.A0E88E21@internet1.net> Message-ID: Quantum is going to make tape drives using technology they got from DEC when Q bought D's disk drive business... Q didn't really want the tape business, but D insisted :) Aint it funny how life turns out sometimes... c PS I looked a one of Q's more recent DLT drives... Uses the exact same loader tape mechanism as the TK50 :) On Mon, 2 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Quantun isn't going to make drives?? It hought they were supposed to be > very good drives? What are they going to make now? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > Quantum just exited the disk drive business. I guess their web master > > assumed that means to yank all disk related content. > > --Chuck > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 20:47:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Classic Mac Network Games In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >There's also Marathon, which has been around awhile, but may be again too >>new for the older machines. It's also a good bit more involved -- probably >>too hard for very young kids to get into. > >Marathon is one I didn't remember, and as a general tip for things old and >mac, check www.lowendmac.com which has LOTS of tips etc generated over the >years on the various email lists Dan Knight ran/runs. Speaking of Marathon, does anyone have the original disks for the orginal version? Mine quit working some time back and I can no longer install it. We used to play it on our LAN with a couple of Centris 610's but this was 6-7 years ago. And yes, I do still have the disks and such...they just aren't very useful at the moment. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 2 20:50:19 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Apple LWPro parallel port? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010402074211.02383340@pc> References: <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> <017901c0bafe$8721c250$ec779a8d@ajp166> <4.3.2.7.0.20010402074211.02383340@pc> Message-ID: >At 07:43 PM 4/1/01 -0400, you wrote: >> One of the biggest headaches I have at the moment is trying >>to support the Palm Desktop on NT workstations. The install never >>goes the same way twice. > >I happily installed several Palm versions under NT >without incident, including several official closed betas, >dev kits, etc. Our problem comes when we try to sync it with Outlook. Even going by the official installation method on Palm's site it rarely works. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com Mon Apr 2 21:34:36 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: test, sorry Message-ID: <200104030234.SAA11106@stockholm.floodgap.com> Just making sure this is getting through -- my domain name has changed to floodgap.com (though stockholm.ptloma.edu will still work for some time). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The best things in life are sold out. -------------------------------------- From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 2 21:44:33 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <3AC6C364.82868A97@internet1.net> <008701c0bb08$460f1560$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <016201c0bbe8$20c593c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >1) get the license sorted out. >2) A clean install of VMS would be ideal, (the hobbyist >license allows you to install virtually all current versions Question: I thought that the hobbyist program had been slowed to a Beaurocratic standstill (corporate non-funding?). A while back people were saying that they hadn't got responses to eMail. Am I suffering from a misconception? Has the hobbyist program gone green-light? John A. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Apr 2 21:52:31 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: one more test, sorry Message-ID: <200104030252.SAA12510@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Fixing my domain name again back to ptloma.edu -- hope this works. Sorry for the inconvenience! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Plane Too Close to Ground, Crash Probe Told ---- From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 2 23:12:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: Message-ID: <002901c0bbf4$5060a820$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, it has that impact, but it has no effect at all on the physical interface. Sadly, a few controllers in the "old" days were built to the original ST506 spec, meaning that, like their 8" predecessors, they stepped at a fixed rate of 3 ms per step. You could, of course, devise a scheme for changing the rate at which the pulses were generated, but I never had a taste for that much self-abuse. The earliest HDC's seemed to favor using an FDC chip to control head positioning. They didn't ramp the seek rate up and down on longer seeks, though it seems some do in today's floppy drives. Unfortunately, PC-BIOS based firmware steps the floppy drives too slowly and doesn't make provision for the drives' capability to step faster. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:53 PM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > > > Actually, the ST412 physical interface is, unless I've missed something in the > > (insert ridiculously large number here) times I've done it in every way > > identical to the ST506. The only difference I've noted is that the > > ST412-series drives were capable of buffering the step pulses in order to > > compute fast seek velocity profiles. This is a firmware effect, not a hardware > > Yes, that is the difference. The ST412 (and almost all later drives) > support buffered seeks. This does have some implications for the > interface -- namely how fast you can send the step pulses. > > It doesn't normally matter in practice in that just about all 'ST506' > drives support buffered seeks, but you can still step them slowly [1] if > you want to. But I still think it should be called the ST412 interface, > not the ST506 interface (unless the drive in question doesn't support > buffered seeks). > > [1] At least it's not an SA4000. That (14" winchester) drive supported > buffered seeks, but badly. You could either send it one step at a time > and wait for seek complete to be asserted before sending the next one > (unbuffered seeking) or send it a load of step pulses fast, and it would > buffer them, then do the seek, then assert seek complete. What you > couldn't do is send it pulses relatively slowly, but too fast for it to > step complete after each one. If you did that, the step counter > miscounted, and the heads ended up on the wrong cylinder. > > > > > > [2] I am not sure how anyone can write a hardware book without a single > > > > > schematic or timing diagram, but the PC-crowd seem to manage it. > > > > > > > > > They have to write what their intended readers can understand. After all, > > lots > > > > > > OK, but if I'd not call such a book a 'hardware bible' or a 'hardware > > > reference'. Those terms should imply some technical information... > > > > > The people willing to buy and rely on such things get what they deserve. Most > > of them don't read the things anyway. > > True... My moan is that I _can't_ seem to buy a decent book on modern PC > hardware, with some facts in it that are not obvious from looking at the > machine for 10 minutes... > > > > > > A catchy title will sell products so abysmally lacking in both value and > > Not to me it won't.... I have this habit of _looking_ at books before I > buy them. > > > underlying knowledge that anybody who would actually read such a thing would be > > appalled. > > Indeed... > > > > > > > Apart from the IBM Technical Reference manuals (which are excellent, > > > although rather dated), is there a good book on PC hardware? Because I've > > > yet to see anything I would spend any money on... > > > > > Frankly, I've yet to see a good book on PC-anything. > > The IBM manuals are at least reasonably accurate and complete for the IBM > hardware. The older ones include schematics and ROM source, and other > similar information. > > > > It's odd, but I've never had any success doing things like that, even > > > when I use so-called compatible parts. But if I get the pinouts, and sit > > > down with a logic analyser (if the timing diagrams are not available), I > > > can generally get things to talk to each other. > > > > > The PC-generation wasn't when this started. I'm about (once I have time) to sit > > No, but it got a lot worse with PCs. > > At least with S100 stuff (say) you often had schematics. And pinouts of > all the connectors. And data sheets for the chips. Some manufacturers > were better than others, of course, but few supplied only manuals that > were as bad as the so-called documentation you get with PC products these > days. > > > down with my S-100 hardware and produce logic analyzer snapshots and import them > > into my PC so I can use them in documenting what REALLY happens on the bus with > > each of a number of CPU boards. My experience has been that the documentation > > provided with CP/M-era hardware was often fraught with error and even with > > Some was, but there were some _excellent_ manuals about. In general, the > schematics in the manuals were pretty darn close to the hardware as > supplied. And the data sheets on the chips (at least on chips from > reputable manufacturers) included things like timing diagrams that were > very near what you'd see on a logic analyser. > > Yes, there were errors in the text (the most serious being the missing > off of the inverting bar on some signal names, possibly due to the > printing process). But I never bothered with the text anyway. It was > quicker to read the schematic and work out what was really going on. I > rarely read the jumper setting information in the manual, and I > certainly never depended on it. I used the schematics. > > > disinformation. The situation with PC-generation stuff seems to have been that > > the mfg's simply saved themselves the trouble of publishing disinformation about > > their products, since the PC was designed for people who'd see a logic diagram > > as being a foreign language anyway. > > But alas for those of us who'd rather read a schematic than a manual at > the 'This computer, this disk, this smack on head' level, you can't get > proper manuals on PC hardware, not even as an option. > > -tony > > From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Mon Apr 2 23:20:18 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: Digital Board ID request please Message-ID: <021901c0bbf5$6549f060$41c3d63f@headleys> Board has 3 notches. on back it says "DEC DMV11 Microprogram Control". It also has the following numbers: M8053 on one of the top fingers. Also CS*ABCDEFHJKLMNPRS also DDCMP ADDR BOOT enable. Can anyone tell me what this is and what it does? Headley From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 2 23:22:53 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:48 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 drive pictures References: <3AC91ABF.665AD908@home.com> Message-ID: <3AC9501D.4335B75B@internet1.net> Wow, looks like a Warp Core, or somthin :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA ip500 wrote: > > In case anyone wants to take a look ... I shot a couple of quick > pictures of these huge IBM disk drives and stuck them: > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscfront.JPG > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdisccu.JPG > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscback.JPG > No good reference for scale, but they are about 4' long X 2' dia > and weigh approx 140 pounds [that's not including the motor & belt drive > visable in picture 1]. These were mounted as pictured [upright], 2 to a > cabinet, the motors were mounted above the drives and ran a 1.5" width > belt down to the drive pulley. I can hardly beliefe these are circa > 1985! > Cheers, Craig From curt at atari-history.com Tue Apr 3 00:06:09 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: VCF 4.0 Recap back up References: Message-ID: <3AC95A41.8E67D100@atari-history.com> Hi everyone, I fixed all the pages in the VCF 4.0 recap pages on my site, sorry that it was down, I'm not quite sure what happened. So those who couldn't make it or are looking to see some of the stuff that was there, here's the link: http://www.atari-history.com/vcf4/vcf4.html Curt From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 3 01:22:53 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 In-Reply-To: <016201c0bbe8$20c593c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <009201c0b864$5e9f1c20$4fc5d63f@headleys> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329212010.01e69eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AC4F7A0.5CA2292B@internet1.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010330142143.01ac9008@208.226.86.10> <3AC6C364.82868A97@internet1.net> <008701c0bb08$460f1560$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: >Question: I thought that the hobbyist program had been >slowed to a Beaurocratic standstill (corporate non-funding?). >A while back people were saying that they hadn't got >responses to eMail. Am I suffering from a misconception? >Has the hobbyist program gone green-light? I'm thinking the problem people are having is getting their Encompass (DECUS) memberships. I just renewed my Hobbyist licenses recently (I really wish these license weren't limited to one year! Compaq really has nothing to do with the VMS hobbyist program other thank sanctioning it. OTOH, they activelly support the Tru64 Hobbyist Program. I for one would gladly pay the $100 the Tru64 Hobbyist costs in order to get as good a OpenVMS Hobbyist program! With Tru64 you get a set of CD's, permanent license PAKs, and you can buy upgrades at a drastically reduced cost! Only problem is, I'm running OpenVMS on my Alpha's not Tru64 :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 3 07:13:35 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Digital Board ID request please In-Reply-To: <021901c0bbf5$6549f060$41c3d63f@headleys> from Compusync at "Apr 3, 2001 00:20:18 am" Message-ID: <200104031213.f33CDaV02867@bg-tc-ppp1570.monmouth.com> > Board has 3 notches. on back it says "DEC DMV11 Microprogram Control". It > also has the following numbers: M8053 on one of the top fingers. Also > CS*ABCDEFHJKLMNPRS also DDCMP ADDR BOOT enable. Can anyone tell me what this > is and what it does? > > Headley I believe this was most often used as an IO Processor for Sync communications... The DMC and line card used to handle DECnet as well as other protocols at 56k sync speeds -- the DMV is a QBus version... --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Tue Apr 3 07:59:59 2001 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: NEC APC TU001 Memory boards Message-ID: Charlie, I have the small tape reader that attaches to the side of the Model 33. Unused, in the box, yours for the asking (although a swap for something useful is always nice). Contact me off-list. Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles E. Fox [SMTP:foxvideo@wincom.net] > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 11:53 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: NEC APC TU001 Memory boards > > > > We are trying to get an APC operational, and would like to ask if > > anyone has a couple of the optional memory expansion boards that they > would > part with for a reasonable price? > Also, does anyone know where I could track down a tape punch and > reader for a Model 33 Teletype? > Thanks > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/4ecc3c90/attachment.html From peter at joules.org Tue Apr 3 08:33:06 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000d01c0bc42$ea3c55e0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> This brings to mind one of the old practical jokes, which can no longer be used on modern systems... Whilst some of the park routines used to allow ESC to be pressed to contiue using the drive, un parking it, others simply said 'Drive heads are parked - you may now power down' and halted the system. This led to the possibility of some evil soul ;-) putting PARK as the last statement in AUTOEXEC.BAT. The other one which comes to mind is changing the DOS prompt to something like 'FATAL Parity error - Contact support', many users would make no attempt to do anything else with the system before calling for help ;-) -- Regards Pete > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: 02 April 2001 23:07 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: MFM hard disk parking > > > Could someone please email me the MS-DOS utility SHIP.COM or > PARK.COM (it differed in name depending on who's OEM DOS it was). I > need to park a MFM hard disk prior to shipment. Thanks and take care. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 3 09:06:17 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: <000d01c0bc42$ea3c55e0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> from Peter Joules at "Apr 3, 1 02:33:06 pm" Message-ID: <200104031406.GAA11800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This brings to mind one of the old practical jokes, which can no longer be > used on modern systems... > > Whilst some of the park routines used to allow ESC to be pressed to contiue > using the drive, un parking it, others simply said 'Drive heads are parked - > you may now power down' and halted the system. This led to the possibility > of some evil soul ;-) putting PARK as the last statement in AUTOEXEC.BAT. > > The other one which comes to mind is changing the DOS prompt to something > like 'FATAL Parity error - Contact support', many users would make no > attempt to do anything else with the system before calling for help ;-) This has nothing to do with this other than being the most evil practical joke I ever played. A couple years back someone on this list posted an HP control sequence for changing the READY message on HP printers. So I wrote a script that found every printer on campus, changed the READY message to INSERT 5 CENTS, ran the script on April Fools' day and sent a message to the campus announcement echo saying that all printers now would require a five cents' per page charge with charge accounts required from all offices (coin acceptors to be installed that same day). I nearly got in trouble with the Financial VP but it was a great joke! I still have some archived voice mail from people who took the joke completely seriously :-) Of course, when my boss got back and found billions of angry messages it was the new Ice Age for some time afterwards ... They still talk about that joke in the programmers' nest and the original message I sent to the echo is now posted on the system admin's wall. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Long live the Commodore 64 -- eight bits are enough! ----------------------- From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 3 09:22:54 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: April Fools joke In-Reply-To: <200104031406.GAA11800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Apr 3, 2001 07:06:17 am" Message-ID: <200104031422.f33EMsV00753@bg-tc-ppp895.monmouth.com> > > This brings to mind one of the old practical jokes, which can no longer be > > used on modern systems... > > > A couple years back someone on this list posted an HP control sequence for > changing the READY message on HP printers. So I wrote a script that found > every printer on campus, changed the READY message to INSERT 5 CENTS, ran > the script on April Fools' day and sent a message to the campus announcement > echo saying that all printers now would require a five cents' per page charge > with charge accounts required from all offices (coin acceptors to be > installed that same day). I nearly got in trouble with the Financial VP but > it was a great joke! I still have some archived voice mail from people who > took the joke completely seriously :-) Sounds like the April Fools joke I worked out with a DEC RP06 disk drive power sequence cable and a 75 cents coin box from a commercial washing machine. This joke requires a very cooperative customer. 8-) Your RP06 doesn't spin up... Call field service... I respond and drop 3 quarters in the machine which connects the power sequence leads... Close service call. Of course there was a Memorex guy who got fired when DEC found him shipping oem'd 677's (RP06's) to DEC with sample boxes of Tide in them. --Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 3 09:26:32 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: nice ibm drive -- but the Sequent is slick In-Reply-To: <3AC9501D.4335B75B@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Apr 2, 2001 11:22:53 pm" Message-ID: <200104031426.f33EQWb00768@bg-tc-ppp895.monmouth.com> ip500 wrote: > > In case anyone wants to take a look ... I shot a couple of quick > pictures of these huge IBM disk drives and stuck them: > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscfront.JPG > 1985! > Cheers, Craig The Sequent's a slick find. I worked for Pyramid their main competition. What CPU's are in the box. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ip500 at home.com Tue Apr 3 09:50:01 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: nice ibm drive -- but the Sequent is slick References: <200104031426.f33EQWb00768@bg-tc-ppp895.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3AC9E319.72943C8D@home.com> Hi Bill, Slick OK but HUGE. It runs 386's [2 per card]. Came out of the Va Tech computer lab ... along with my best find .. a fairly complete Intel Hypercube setup [the early one in a 5' silver monolith, iPSC/1] .. runs 32 286 processors in parallel. It came with the Intel 310 front end and a couple of 9 track tape drives. No terminal however. I've been toying with the idea of trying to get it up and running. Paul Pierce says he may have the O/S for it and some info/manuals/etc [which were sadly missing and sorely needed!] regards, Craig PS: Love those drives ... I'm trying to figure some way to hang one [chains I guess] over my desk with a tracklight on it. I'd prefer not to kill myself or my back while doing it though. Bill Pechter wrote: > > ip500 wrote: > > > > In case anyone wants to take a look ... I shot a couple of quick > > pictures of these huge IBM disk drives and stuck them: > > http://members.home.net/ip500/ibmdiscfront.JPG > > 1985! > > Cheers, Craig > > The Sequent's a slick find. > > I worked for Pyramid their main competition. What CPU's are in the > box. > > Bill > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 > Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 > Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From catman at dia.net Tue Apr 3 10:21:51 2001 From: catman at dia.net (Steve Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Macintosh Network Games In-Reply-To: <200104031216.HAA68238@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200104031216.HAA68238@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi, cafe.ambrosiasw.com used to have Mac network games. It is no longer available. The link suggests http://www.macledge.com/netgames/netgames/ but that site says "opening again shortly." Hmmm. Is that a long shortly or a short shortly? Yuh can't lurk forever... Greetings to Paul Braun! Steve C. Williston, ND From office at jortberg.com Tue Apr 3 10:35:21 2001 From: office at jortberg.com (Jortberg Associates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Historical Research project Message-ID: <4.1.20010403113131.009611b0@mail.nii.net> Hello: I am looking for the following items as well as their manuals dating back to the mid 1980's. I am willing to pay fair market value as well as all shipping charges. Please email me if you have any of these items or any leads as to where I may obtain them. Thanks. 1. GammaFax Board 2. IBM Scanmaster 3. TITN, Inc. "TWICE X.25" software 4. Xerox "Netmaster" software 5. Wang PIC Cindy Taubert Jortberg Associates From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Apr 3 10:30:49 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Just getting started with a MicroVax 3400 Message-ID: >>Question: I thought that the hobbyist program had been >>slowed to a ... standstill >> John A. > >...I'm thinking the problem people are having is getting their Encompass >(DECUS) memberships.... > Zane More or less true for me. I have hit the "Register" website twice, first time in February. I must exist there, I got the March "Quadwords" (hardcopy) newsletter, but no response email and no membership number so far. No real problem, since no time to fool with the Hobbyist VAX at the moment, but if I were in a hurry I'd be a little frustrated. But if I were in a hurry I'd probably have called or emailed someone about it, which may work better. - Mark From red at bears.org Tue Apr 3 11:14:25 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: <200104031406.GAA11800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > A couple years back someone on this list posted an HP control sequence for > changing the READY message on HP printers. So I wrote a script that found > every printer on campus, changed the READY message to INSERT 5 CENTS You're welcome. (; You're lucky nobody actually tried to drop a nickel into one of the printers... I almost did the same thing but was worried, given my user community, that somebody would try it. I eventually settled on" "71 COLON BLOCKED" ok r. From dan at ekoan.com Tue Apr 3 11:29:36 2001 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Need help identifying HP part Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010403122936.00a562e0@mail.rdss.com> Hello, At the Baltimore hamfest last weekend I picked up several 9825 HP-IB interface cables in a box. At the bottom of the box was a Hewlett-Packard IC labeled 1820-0076. It's a 16-pin DIP plastic package with the following stamps: 7476N 7751 SA 1820-0076 The chip looks to be in good shape and is in anti-static foam inside a plastic box. Any ideas what device and purpose this IC might be for? Another mystery device in the box was a 98028A "Resource Management Multiplexer" that has four DB-15 female connectors and what looks to be a 50-pin harmonica-style connector at the end of a short cable. Cheers, Dan PS At the 'fest I also picked up an HP 9915B (with option 002) along with a 98155A keyboard and three interface cables (two serial and one HP-IB) as well as an HP 82905B printer. I also bought three TI-99/4As and two expansion chassis for them (one new in box and the other populated with floppy disk drives and additional memory). From djenner at halcyon.com Tue Apr 3 11:26:27 2001 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Historical Research project References: <4.1.20010403113131.009611b0@mail.nii.net> Message-ID: <3AC9F9B3.BB56A692@halcyon.com> Could you please tell us what "historical research project" you are involved with? Is it not for some New York patent lawyers? I suggest that anyone dealing with these people make sure that they understand what is going on. Make sure that you receive really worthwhile remuneration for your services and hardware/documentation. This is not likely a "hobbyist" project. Dave Jortberg Associates wrote: > > Hello: I am looking for the following items as well as their manuals > dating back to the mid 1980's. I am willing to pay fair market value as > well as all shipping charges. Please email me if you have any of these > items or any leads as to where I may obtain them. Thanks. > > 1. GammaFax Board > 2. IBM Scanmaster > 3. TITN, Inc. "TWICE X.25" software > 4. Xerox "Netmaster" software > 5. Wang PIC > > Cindy Taubert > Jortberg Associates From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 3 12:36:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Need help identifying HP part In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010403122936.00a562e0@mail.rdss.com> from "Dan Veeneman" at Apr 3, 1 12:29:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 745 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/0295c3c5/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 3 12:45:52 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster Message-ID: Well, I'm not saying I'm looking for it for a reasearch project, but I'd definetly love a scanmaster, also need a system/34... system/88 would be nice, as would an 8130, 3790, or a 7171.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 3 12:49:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Apr 2, 1 08:28:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3672 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/b763fc1f/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 3 11:30:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: <000d01c0bc42$ea3c55e0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> References: Message-ID: >This brings to mind one of the old practical jokes, which can no longer be >used on modern systems... Best trick to really freak out a mac user is to take a picture (command 3 I think does this) of the desktop, then make that picture the desktop background (wallpaper to PC types). Leave a few folders open, and when they click to close them, nothing happens. Great fun to watch. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 3 12:58:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: April Fools joke In-Reply-To: <200104031422.f33EMsV00753@bg-tc-ppp895.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Apr 3, 1 10:22:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/b3b89f8e/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 3 13:05:21 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: IBM 3380 drive pictures Message-ID: Hmm, maybe I should take pix of the assembled drive unit? They are no smaller than 1.26GB each, since the smallest 3380 model was a 2.52GB total unit.. I have no difficulty believing the age of the drives, they're fast as hell and store a huge amount of data, my 3380 is an AE4, which makes it a 5.04GB unit. Average seek time of 17ms or less, depending on the model, and data rate of at least 3MB/sec. Average latency of 8.3ms _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 3 13:29:24 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Digital Board ID request please In-Reply-To: <200104031213.f33CDaV02867@bg-tc-ppp1570.monmouth.com> References: <021901c0bbf5$6549f060$41c3d63f@headleys> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403112629.02c57a00@208.226.86.10> Bill is correct, is a synchronous serial network interface. DDCMP is a DECnet protocol and allows the device to be MOP booted over DECNET if you've got the ROM for it. I've got a couple of these (plus some with S-box handles) and would love to get the technical specs on them. Then I could hook them up to a CSU/DSU and run Frame relay lines around my house :-) --Chuck > > Board has 3 notches. on back it says "DEC DMV11 Microprogram Control". It > > also has the following numbers: M8053 on one of the top fingers. Also > > CS*ABCDEFHJKLMNPRS also DDCMP ADDR BOOT enable. Can anyone tell me what > this > > is and what it does? > >I believe this was most often used as an IO Processor for Sync >communications... The DMC and line card used to handle DECnet as well as >other protocols at 56k sync speeds -- the DMV is a QBus version... > >--Bill From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 3 14:49:45 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Pro380 LEDs Message-ID: <200104031949.f33Jnjc32131@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone have a list of what LEDs 1-4 are on the back of a Pro380? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 3 14:50:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Apr 3, 1 12:14:25 pm" Message-ID: <200104031950.LAA04420@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > A couple years back someone on this list posted an HP control sequence for > > changing the READY message on HP printers. So I wrote a script that found > > every printer on campus, changed the READY message to INSERT 5 CENTS > > You're welcome. (; Yep, there you are ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When relatives are outlawed, only outlaws will have inlaws. ---------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 3 15:10:27 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Need help identifying HP part In-Reply-To: Dan Veeneman "Need help identifying HP part" (Apr 3, 12:29) References: <3.0.5.32.20010403122936.00a562e0@mail.rdss.com> Message-ID: <10104032110.ZM13104@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 3, 12:29, Dan Veeneman wrote: > At the bottom of the > box was a Hewlett-Packard IC labeled 1820-0076. It's a > 16-pin DIP plastic package with the following stamps: > > 7476N 7751 > SA 1820-0076 > Any ideas what device and purpose this IC might be for? Just a dual J-K flip-flop made around Christmas 1977 (a 7476 is a standard 16-pin DIP TTL JK F/F, and date code 7751 would be week 51, 1977). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 3 13:51:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) In-Reply-To: <00b701c0bbd5$e6b4a340$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Apr 3, 1 10:04:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1308 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/61de40fb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 3 13:56:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) In-Reply-To: <002901c0bbf4$5060a820$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 2, 1 10:12:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010403/cb56e31d/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 3 14:02:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Well, I'm not saying I'm looking for it for a reasearch project, but I'd > definetly love a scanmaster, also need a system/34... system/88 would be > nice, as would an 8130, 3790, or a 7171.. What's a ScanMaster anyway? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 2 18:10:34 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: vaxstation 4000/vlb References: <200104020038.SAA09061@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <000201c0bc8c$cf87f110$0100a8c0@jack> vlb or vlc???? regular 4 meg simms fit its a slow poke for netBSD 1.5, but the colour framebuffer dont work yet. in vm its the usual Fred From jss at ou.edu Tue Apr 3 17:41:17 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: References: <000d01c0bc42$ea3c55e0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010403173339.00a8c5b0@pop.ou.edu> At 4/3/2001 11:30 AM, you wrote: >Best trick to really freak out a mac user is to take a picture (command 3 >I think does this) of the desktop, then make that picture the desktop >background (wallpaper to PC types). Leave a few folders open, and when >they click to close them, nothing happens. Great fun to watch. When I was in the seventh grade, the school had a shiny new mac lab, and they tried to teach QuickBasic to everyone. I found it fun to write a simple QuickBasic program that created a small modal window completely concealed underneath the menu bar. After researching various ways of getting the program run by unsuspecting students, it was fun to watch the computer-challenged teacher/students try to figure out why the machine(s) had frozen up. The teacher gradually grew suspicious of the machines as the year progressed. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 3 17:37:05 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: vaxstation 4000/vlb In-Reply-To: <000201c0bc8c$cf87f110$0100a8c0@jack> from "Fred deBros" at Apr 02, 2001 07:10:34 PM Message-ID: <200104032237.PAA09601@shell1.aracnet.com> > vlb or vlc???? > > regular 4 meg simms fit > > its a slow poke for netBSD 1.5, but the colour framebuffer dont work yet. > > in vm its the usual > > Fred It's a slow poke? Strange, I thought it was a fairly zippy VAXstation, not as nice as it's bigger brothers the 4000/60, /90, 90A, or /96, but still very nice. It's also the closest thing you're going to find to a portable VAX. I still want to turn mine into a laptop. The fact that you can only have 24MB RAM kind of stinks, but the fact you can use common 4MB SIMMs totally rocks! Zane From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 3 18:36:58 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? Message-ID: <3ACA5E9A.CA4FC79C@internet1.net> Hello, What kind carwash do you recommend.... the kind with brushes, or no-touch? Will the brushes leave scratches in the finish? :-) Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. Usually I do this kind of thing in the bathtub, but since the Microvax case is quite a bit larger than a PC, I decided to do it outside. Since I live in an apartment..... that meant the carwash. The high pressure hose was nice :-) Once I get the case put back together, I'll set it up next to a PC, in a more permanent location. Then I'll get the capture file of "show ***", and post it to the list. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Apr 3 18:40:27 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) References: Message-ID: <001f01c0bc97$76ccf100$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:21 AM Subject: Re: UPDATE (was: Re: VAX 6000-400 series and NetBSD, I have machines) > > These are like a meccano set, everything unbolts pretty well, but you > > will wind up with a mountain of screws and washers. > > They suffer from what we used to call in the domestic electronics > > servicing industry 'cousin effect' - the designer had a cousin who owned > > a screw factory. :^) > > Is this related to 'ARDs DECSA Law'? This law, discovered when I was > repairing a DECSA says : > > 'The lower the importance of a part of the DECSA, the more screws hold it > in place'. I would be tempted to agree with that. I just pulled a DEC PC to bits a couple weeks ago, and had a similar experience. Cheers Geoff From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 3 18:50:38 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: MFM hard disk parking In-Reply-To: References: <200104031406.GAA11800@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010403165011.02561d60@mail.zipcon.net> What praytell is the escape sequence :) i have about a dozen hp 2's 3's and 2p/3p printers here :) At 12:14 PM 4/3/01 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > A couple years back someone on this list posted an HP control sequence for > > changing the READY message on HP printers. So I wrote a script that found > > every printer on campus, changed the READY message to INSERT 5 CENTS > >You're welcome. (; > >You're lucky nobody actually tried to drop a nickel into one of the >printers... I almost did the same thing but was worried, given my user >community, that somebody would try it. I eventually settled on" > >"71 COLON BLOCKED" > >ok >r. From gene at ehrich.com Tue Apr 3 18:48:30 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010403194805.00ae4100@popmail.voicenet.com> At 12:02 PM 4/3/01 -0700, you wrote: >What's a ScanMaster anyway? Fax machine before there were fax machines. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 3 19:16:23 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Getting stuff _back_ from standalone backup Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403171330.02beee40@208.226.86.129> Argh, Ok, this is perhaps a dumb question, and I need to go find my VMS system managers manual, (no doubt it will be at the _bottom_ of my pile of VMS docs). When I have a tape that I created with SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT.COM and I want to restore that tape on to a disk, what do I type to it? I tried this: BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MIA2: DIA0: but it complained that it couldn't open [SYSEXE]. on DIA0 (which makes sense since DIA0 doesn't have anything on it yet!) --Chuck From ip500 at home.com Tue Apr 3 19:34:28 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010403194805.00ae4100@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3ACA6C14.A8DAD8FE@home.com> Nah .... Fax machines have been around about forever. I've got a Western Union ThermoFax unit from the late 30's / early 40's. As I recall the Crosley Readeo unit was available in about 1931 and produced faxed newspapers .. via radio! Somewhat before it's time and the idea quietly died. First published mention I can find quickly of facsimile transmission [commercial use .. that is] was in the 1912 edition of Wm. Maver's "American Telegraphy" .. it showed in great detail the "Denison fac-simile telegraph system" ..odd spelling with the hyphen but that's how it was cited in the book. Just a quick footnote from history, Craig Gene Ehrich wrote: > > At 12:02 PM 4/3/01 -0700, you wrote: > >What's a ScanMaster anyway? > > Fax machine before there were fax machines. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 3 19:38:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) References: Message-ID: <003001c0bc9f$9e464080$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I didn't deal with DEC mauals, nor did I often deal with Heath/Zenith stuff. In fact, Heath and Zenith hadn't "merged" by the timeframe I'm remembering. Nevertheless, I can remember more than one case wherein I had board revisions a, b, and c of a given board, and the same error, on schematic revisions a, b, and c appeared. That convinced me the mfg's were trying to "protect" something. It's true, the Tandy doc's that I saw were about as good as any of the time, though the underlying designs were often about as poor as any of the time. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 11:49 AM Subject: Re: D connector tirade (was: Re: Age-old ethernet equipment) > > > > >At least with S100 stuff (say) you often had schematics. And pinouts of > > >all the connectors. And data sheets for the chips. Some manufacturers > > >were better than others, of course, but few supplied only manuals that > > >were as bad as the so-called documentation you get with PC products these > > >days. > > > > Both of my kit systems (Heath/Zenith Z-100 and SWTPc 6809) > > have excellent manuals that go into the timing, schematics, and chip > > datasheets. Tandy used to have available seperately some excellent > > tech manuals on their various systems. I've got a number of them, > > IMHO the best manuals at that time (not considering the price) were the > ones from DEC. The PDP8/e maintenance manuals in particular are almost > tutorials on computer operation. The PDP11/45 manuals aren't bad either > (things like a cycle-by-cycle description of the microcode). But DEC > manuals were _very_ expensive (although probably worth it) > > Other companies had excellent manuals as well -- one that sticks in my > memory is a Philips service manual for one of their P800 series of > minicomputers that contains an entire section on the operation of the > SMPSU, complete with current and voltage waveforms for the chopper > circuit. Just what you need when you have PSU problems. > > But the best _value_ manuals were Tandy IMHO. They included all the > essential information (Schematics, ROM calls, that sort of thing), and > were cheap. I can remember paying 99p (!) for the CoCo 1 technical > manual. Now, admittedly that was in a half-price sale, but even at > \pounds 1.99 it was still excellent value. I also remember getting my > Model 100, and ordering the techref for it. It cost something like > \pounds 3.99. Again, it has all the information I needed in it (I/O > connector pinouts, schematic, data on all the main chips, and so on). > > To be fair, there have been some other excellent manuals for micros. > Heathkit/Zenith ones are great (or at least the ones for my Z90 are). > Although I don't much care for the machine, the Apple ][ Reference manual > is not bad. And even though Apple no longer supplied such a manual with > the //e, it was at least available as an extra (I found it in a London > computer bookshop a few years back amongst the Mac manuals. Needless to > say I bought it). > > It's hard to think of a micro from before the days of PC clones where > such information was not available. > > Now, alas, it's hard to think of a machine where it is. > > > including the nearly 400page service manual for the Model 2000. > > Osborne had a pretty serious set of tech manuals for their products > > as well, the ones for the Executive spanning 5 volumes, including the > > source for it's ROM monitor and BIOS. Atari did a similar manual for > > the 400/800. > > Ever seen the HP71 IDS? That's 3 volumes on software, 1 volume on > hardware, 1 volume on HPIL for a _calculator_. You get ROM source, > schematics, assembly language, timing diagrams, ROM calls, and lots more > information. > > > > With most of today's systems, you're lucky to get any kind of > > manual at all. It's just as likely to be a flyer of just a few pages > > as it is to be a PDF file on the system CD. Certainly nothing that > > goes too in-depth into the actual hardware. > > I wouldn't object to a .pdf on the CD (even though I particularly dislike > that file format) if it included some useful information. After all, if I > bought a modern machine, it would probably have a graphical display, so I > would be able to read a .pdf. And in any case I am sure I could find > somebody who would read it and print it out for me for a suitable fee. > > Problem is, such manuals do not contain useful information... > > -tony > > From optimus at canit.se Tue Apr 3 18:56:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Historical Research project In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010403113131.009611b0@mail.nii.net> Message-ID: <236.494T1100T565173optimus@canit.se> Jortberg Associates skrev: >4. Xerox "Netmaster" software What is this? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. #define NULL 0 /* silly thing is, we don't even use this */ --Larry Wall in perl.c from the perl source code From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 3 19:42:31 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <3ACA5E9A.CA4FC79C@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403173942.0262c888@208.226.86.10> At 06:36 PM 4/3/2001 -0500, The Chad wrote: >Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the >do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then >Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. That's a great idea. I have done the boards in the dish washer trick (they come out nice and clean, but sometimes lose their labels) >Once I get the case put back together, I'll set it up next to a PC, in a >more permanent location. Then I'll get the capture file of "show ***", >and post it to the list. So I take it the system is running to your satisfaction now? Great! I just got my new VAX 4000/700A running and helped a high school kid set up his very own VS3100/M30 with VMS. This has definitely been a non-unix week for me ;-) --Chuck From curt at atari-history.com Tue Apr 3 20:00:57 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Getting stuff _back_ from standalone backup References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403171330.02beee40@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: <3ACA7249.874F53E4@atari-history.com> Chuck, Is DIA0: Mounted??? Curt Chuck McManis wrote: > Argh, > > Ok, this is perhaps a dumb question, and I need to go find my VMS system > managers manual, (no doubt it will be at the _bottom_ of my pile of VMS > docs). When I have a tape that I created with SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT.COM and > I want to restore that tape on to a disk, what do I type to it? I tried this: > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MIA2: DIA0: > > but it complained that it couldn't open [SYSEXE]. on DIA0 (which makes > sense since DIA0 doesn't have anything on it yet!) > > --Chuck From Demon02554 at aol.com Tue Apr 3 19:56:43 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 Message-ID: does anyone know where i could purchase an RCA Cosmac CDP1802 microprocessor? i've looked for one on ebay and at random antique places.... if anyone could help i would appreciate it From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 3 18:53:28 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <3ACA5E9A.CA4FC79C@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > What kind carwash do you recommend.... the kind with brushes, or > no-touch? Will the brushes leave scratches in the finish? :-) > > Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the > do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then > Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. Usually I > do this kind of thing in the bathtub, but since the Microvax case is > quite a bit larger than a PC, I decided to do it outside. Since I live > in an apartment..... that meant the carwash. The high pressure hose was > nice :-) This is one of the funniest things I have ever heard of :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Apr 3 20:09:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Dynalogic Hyperion In-Reply-To: <003001c0bc9f$9e464080$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <003001c0bc9f$9e464080$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: For those that were looking for one when I was giving away the manuals, this one just popped up: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1227454215 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 3 20:28:54 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403173942.0262c888@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3ACA78D6.B9BB6651@internet1.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > That's a great idea. I have done the boards in the dish washer trick (they > come out nice and clean, but sometimes lose their labels) I haven't done anything to the boards yet. They aren't too bad, so I probably won't. I've blown a few off by blowing, that's it. > So I take it the system is running to your satisfaction now? Great! Well no, not really. I don't have an OS I can use. I wish I new more about VMS. I was hoping I wouldn't have to load an OS, but I don't know how to fix the VMS installation that is already there. I have a few cards that I want to identify still too. > I just got my new VAX 4000/700A running and helped a high school kid set up > his very own VS3100/M30 with VMS. This has definitely been a non-unix week > for me ;-) It's been a non-Unix week for me too, but that is easily explainable...... I don't have anything running Unix :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ip500 at home.com Tue Apr 3 20:37:01 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? References: Message-ID: <3ACA7ABD.BC72C24@home.com> While I doubt that modern [or even antique] computers could take much water ... I have on occasion run a complete communications receiver [usually military types] through the dishwasher cycle. After a couple of days bakeout at 150 degrees they are as good as new [and a lot cleaner!]. This technique is reserved for the worst of the worst .. ie: caked on grease that no amount of hand wiping would ever remove. AND ..these were tube type / vintage sets .. very rugged indeed. Craig Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > What kind carwash do you recommend.... the kind with brushes, or > > no-touch? Will the brushes leave scratches in the finish? :-) > > > > Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the > > do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then > > Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. Usually I > > do this kind of thing in the bathtub, but since the Microvax case is > > quite a bit larger than a PC, I decided to do it outside. Since I live > > in an apartment..... that meant the carwash. The high pressure hose was > > nice :-) > > This is one of the funniest things I have ever heard of :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Tue Apr 3 20:38:00 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 References: Message-ID: <000f01c0bca7$e3c0d640$a915a38e@98box> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1226606675 Here's one, it's for a 1802, 4004, 6502, 6800, and 2901. The current price is a craptacular 50 dollars US though. > does anyone know where i could purchase an RCA Cosmac CDP1802 microprocessor? > > i've looked for one on ebay and at random antique places.... > if anyone could help i would appreciate it > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 3 20:44:17 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:49 2005 Subject: Getting stuff _back_ from standalone backup In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403171330.02beee40@208.226.86.129> from Chuck McManis at "Apr 3, 2001 05:16:23 pm" Message-ID: <200104040144.f341iHw01628@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> > Argh, > > Ok, this is perhaps a dumb question, and I need to go find my VMS system > managers manual, (no doubt it will be at the _bottom_ of my pile of VMS > docs). When I have a tape that I created with SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT.COM and > I want to restore that tape on to a disk, what do I type to it? I tried this: > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MIA2: DIA0: > > but it complained that it couldn't open [SYSEXE]. on DIA0 (which makes > sense since DIA0 doesn't have anything on it yet!) > > --Chuck Been a long time... could it be it needs to be mounted foreign or init-ed first. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 3 20:48:21 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: April Fools joke In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 3, 2001 06:58:56 pm" Message-ID: <200104040148.f341mLn01720@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> > My DEC-related joke is not quite so amusing. Shortly before April 1st, > the place I was working did a VMS upgrade. On the night before April 1st, > I opened up some of the VT100 terminals (read : Most of the ones I could > get to) and swapped over the horizontal deflection coil leads. I then > asked the system managers what changes had been made to VMS, and why was > everyyhting appearing backwards. > > Only one system manager knew what I'd done, even though I had a > reputation for being a hardware person, and even though I'd left the > VT100 printset open at the video monitor page on my bench (where one of > the modified VT100s was). > > Another VT100 joke (not specifically April 1st) is the modified character > generator. You wait until you find somebody doing a video monitor repair > on a VT100, and then you swap the character generator ROM for one either > with the characters flipped left-for-right or top-for-bottom. You can bet > they'll spend hours trying all combinations of polarity for the 2 > deflection coils, turn the yoke over, and so on trying to get it right :-). > > -tony Like the field service manager who was told in the login.com to replace his vt220-sh (southern hemisphere) with a -nh in order to eliminate the upside down character set. (the downloadable characters were a vt2xx goodie and not available to the rest of us field circus types with vt52's and 100's. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 3 20:52:02 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: April Fools joke In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 3, 2001 06:58:56 pm" Message-ID: <200104040152.f341q2g01736@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> > > Sounds like the April Fools joke I worked out with a DEC RP06 disk drive > > power sequence cable and a 75 cents coin box from a commercial washing > > machine. This joke requires a very cooperative customer. 8-) > > > > > > Your RP06 doesn't spin up... > > Call field service... > > > > I respond and drop 3 quarters in the machine which connects the power > > sequence leads... > > > > Close service call. > > ROFL!! That's one of the best ones I've ever heard!. The reason for that was the emergency call I got just after easter on all 6 RP06 drives unsafe. You see they took the packs out at the army base for a vacation break or some drill or something and no one noticed they weren't in the drives and spun 'em up... When the drives went unsafe and the machine wouldn't boot they raised hell about service and dragged a tech cross state (remote diagnostics be damned) to get told look through the glass lid dummy and put the packs in before spinning them up. Folks -- to be completely honest... (We never actually did the April Fools stuff because I left DEC before I got the chance to in 1986. But it seemed like a great war story and I stretched the truth here a bit...) Bill From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 3 21:05:22 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010403194805.00ae4100@popmail.voicenet.com> <3ACA6C14.A8DAD8FE@home.com> Message-ID: <008001c0bcab$d262e560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> There's a nice view of a ~1960's Fax machine in the movie "Bullitt". They put a photo on a drum, and drum is scanned like an old edison cylinder phonograph (but optically). Spins real fast, had a turbine whine as remembered. First fax machine was over 100 years ago with synchronized pendulums. Will scan an old Scientific American if there's interest. John A. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 3 21:21:10 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Getting stuff _back_ from standalone backup In-Reply-To: <200104040144.f341iHw01628@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Apr 03, 2001 09:44:17 PM Message-ID: <200104040221.f342LAa01030@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Ok, this is perhaps a dumb question, and I need to go find my VMS system > managers manual, (no doubt it will be at the _bottom_ of my pile of VMS > docs). When I have a tape that I created with SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT.COM and > I want to restore that tape on to a disk, what do I type to it? I tried this: > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MIA2: DIA0: > > but it complained that it couldn't open [SYSEXE]. on DIA0 (which makes > sense since DIA0 doesn't have anything on it yet!) The tape made with STABACKIT.COM is a bootable tape for running Standalone Backup, not an actual backup of the system disk. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 3 20:47:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: <3ACA6C14.A8DAD8FE@home.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, ip500 wrote: > Nah .... Fax machines have been around about forever. I've got a > Western Union ThermoFax unit from the late 30's / early 40's. As I > recall the Crosley Readeo unit was available in about 1931 and > produced faxed newspapers .. via radio! Somewhat before it's time and > the idea quietly died. First published mention I can find quickly of > facsimile transmission [commercial use .. that is] was in the 1912 > edition of Wm. Maver's "American Telegraphy" .. it showed in great > detail the "Denison fac-simile telegraph system" ..odd spelling with > the hyphen but that's how it was cited in the book. They actually go farther back than that. Facsimile was invented around the 1830s. I started a thread about this some time back. The only reference I can find to IBM ScanMaster is the German archive edition of ComputerWeek: http://www.computerwoche.de/archiv.cfm?path=http://www.computerwoche.de/archiv/1990/24/9024c041.html This is a great resource, as they have seemingly made all their old articles available on the web. My German is just good enough to make out most of the article, but it's just a cursory overview. I'd like to see pictures and a better description (preferably in English :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From kbd at ndx.net Tue Apr 3 22:35:06 2001 From: kbd at ndx.net (Kirk Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 In-Reply-To: <000f01c0bca7$e3c0d640$a915a38e@98box> Message-ID: Halted in sunnyvale had a box (maybe 50) of them for $5 each. This was about a year ago though. I doubt they went through them all. You could call and find out. Kirk -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lanny Cox Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 6:38 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1226606675 Here's one, it's for a 1802, 4004, 6502, 6800, and 2901. The current price is a craptacular 50 dollars US though. > does anyone know where i could purchase an RCA Cosmac CDP1802 microprocessor? > > i've looked for one on ebay and at random antique places.... > if anyone could help i would appreciate it > From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Apr 3 22:34:33 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <3ACA5E9A.CA4FC79C@internet1.net> Message-ID: I've run PC and Apple cases through the dishwasher with no ill effects... Gets out smoke (cigarette) stains, and pet odors too :) clint On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello, > > What kind carwash do you recommend.... the kind with brushes, or > no-touch? Will the brushes leave scratches in the finish? :-) > > Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the > do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then > Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. Usually I > do this kind of thing in the bathtub, but since the Microvax case is > quite a bit larger than a PC, I decided to do it outside. Since I live > in an apartment..... that meant the carwash. The high pressure hose was > nice :-) > > Once I get the case put back together, I'll set it up next to a PC, in a > more permanent location. Then I'll get the capture file of "show ***", > and post it to the list. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 4 00:11:20 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: <008001c0bcab$d262e560$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, John Allain wrote: > > There's a nice view of a ~1960's Fax machine in the movie > "Bullitt". They put a photo on a drum, and drum is scanned > like an old edison cylinder phonograph (but optically). Spins > real fast, had a turbine whine as remembered. > > First fax machine was over 100 years ago with synchronized > pendulums. Will scan an old Scientific American if there's > interest. How do you synchronize to a remote pendulum? - don > John A. > > From dasqua at yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 01:02:26 2001 From: dasqua at yahoo.com (DS) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: uses for 386sx/NBI OASYS 8 Message-ID: <200104040559.AAA85505@opal.tseinc.com> I have a few 386sx boxes configured in various ways: - DOS/linux based test environment for developmental ISA cards - windows - print server for two printers serving around 10 computers of various kinds (win nt, 98, linux) - linux - data concentrator for a network of controllers (provides ethernet gateway for a large number of C64s used for controlling greenhouses) A large number of others perform other tasks, often in 1MB RAM with no real video or keyboard. most of them talk via ethernet or serial to ethernet (PPP). some are windows based, others DOS, others linux. As for booting win95 on 386sx it takes awhile, but 10mins is exaggerating. oddly, some tasks are the same speed as on pentium, but you can almost see it drawing the graphics. given I have crippled it with not even a 1MB card I'm not surprised. (256K I think). After patching the windows box it has now stayed online for approximately four years, with downtime for maintenance, upgrade of memory, and installation of printer drivers/redirectors. The patch is needed since the old version of 9x has a timer overflow which crashes it after a certain number of days of uptime. go figure. ..... Anyone have information on the NBI OASYS 8 system? It was a wordprocessing system made in the 80s (late 70s?). It all works fine, and has a 10MB harddisk (SCSI I think), system unit, and two terminals. My basic question is: how do I talk to the terminals? when they boot up they instantly contact the system unit. this is fine, except I want to use the terminals for something else... they are mostly motorola gear: 6809 cpu, sram, io, video etc. I think the networking used is ethernet... the terminals connect via a coax at least (but this is only a guess) I also have two daisy wheel printers. These have print server boxes on the back which put them on the network. the system uses basically 6809 CPUs in various flavours, although the harddisk has a relative of the 8086 onboard. any thoughts? Unlike the rest of my old computers this one is staying in the original number of pieces from the factory! Darrell _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 4 03:11:49 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: Message-ID: <3ACAD744.B9935C4A@kcinter.net> I'd be interested in seeing the article. I've repaired many fax machines and was unaware that they have been around for this long! Thanks for the info. Bill Claussen elecdata1 Don Maslin wrote: > On Tue, 3 Apr 2001, John Allain wrote: > > > > > There's a nice view of a ~1960's Fax machine in the movie > > "Bullitt". They put a photo on a drum, and drum is scanned > > like an old edison cylinder phonograph (but optically). Spins > > real fast, had a turbine whine as remembered. > > > > First fax machine was over 100 years ago with synchronized > > pendulums. Will scan an old Scientific American if there's > > interest. > > How do you synchronize to a remote pendulum? > > - don > > > John A. > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 4 04:53:34 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? References: Message-ID: <3ACAEF1E.8A9BC310@internet1.net> Pet Oders?? Fortunetly, thats one I haven't had to deal with! CHad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > I've run PC and Apple cases through the dishwasher with no ill > effects... Gets out smoke (cigarette) stains, and pet odors too :) > > clint From azog at azog.org Wed Apr 4 04:57:12 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Getting stuff _back_ from standalone backup In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403171330.02beee40@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: > > Argh, > > Ok, this is perhaps a dumb question, and I need to go find my VMS system > managers manual, (no doubt it will be at the _bottom_ of my pile of VMS > docs). When I have a tape that I created with > SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT.COM and > I want to restore that tape on to a disk, what do I type to it? I > tried this: > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY MIA2: DIA0: > > but it complained that it couldn't open [SYSEXE]. on DIA0 (which makes > sense since DIA0 doesn't have anything on it yet!) > You need to specify a saveset on the input device, i.e., MIA2:SYSBCK.BCK/SAV. (assuming MIA2: is a tape - disk to disk backups don't need a saveset qualifier...) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Apr 4 09:37:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: New Toys - Kaypro II & 2 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010404093740.2617d2fc@mailhost.intellistar.net> I went scrounging last week with one of my buddies and we found some new toys. A Kaypro 2 and a Kaypro II along with a good size pile of Kaypro software. Both of the Kaypros are in mint condition. I kept the 2 and Bob kept the II. Upon checking the 2, I found that it has the Micro Cornicopia Pro-8 ROM. I'm not sure what all it does but it will support up to four 80 track drives in the Kaypro. Now if I can just find that stash of HH 80 track floppy drives! More checking revealed that it also has the 5 MHz Z-80B speedup from Micro C and the Micro C enhanced version of CPM 2.2 (CPM 2.2E). It also has the 88-CoPower card with the 128k daughter board that lets you run MS_DOS on the Kaypro. All in all, a very nice find! Does anyone have the docs on these upgrades? Does anyone have the MS-DOS that runs on the 88-CoPower card? Joe From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 4 08:35:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 References: Message-ID: <004201c0bd0c$3c2838a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You mean just the CPU chip??? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 > does anyone know where i could purchase an RCA Cosmac CDP1802 microprocessor? > > i've looked for one on ebay and at random antique places.... > if anyone could help i would appreciate it > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 4 09:55:00 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010404101032.315fdc6e@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010402183043.009e3d40@192.168.42.129> <3.0.1.16.20010402183032.08a7f884@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.5.32.20010401120517.009b9d40@192.168.42.129> <000201c0bad4$d6710ca0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010404075500.009b75d0@192.168.42.129> At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: >Bruce, > > I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two >known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no >complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only >281 bytes in size. When I tried to make disks from the files it said that >the data had a CRC error. Since they're so small I'm attaching the files to >this message. You can look at them and see what you think. Joe, and other Teledisk group buy participants, I've got some bad news. It appears that, within the last year or two, Sydex has completely sold off the rights to Teledisk, and the product itself, to a company called Forensics International. FI's web page clearly states that they will sell only to law enforcement agencies and Fortune-1000 companies that can show a need for the software. I've written FI a note giving our group license info, and asking if they picked up tech support responsibility for existing customers when they bought TD. I would certainly think they would have! However, I think we also need to be prepared for the worst (read: no more support.) I will also drop a note to Sydex, but I don't hold out much hope at this point. Joe, I'll see if I can do anything with the files you sent. Stay tuned... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Apr 4 10:59:03 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: VT220 COMPOSE Key Question References: <200104040148.f341mLn01720@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3ACB36B7.AE128574@idirect.com> >Bill Pechter wrote: > Like the field service manager who was told in the login.com > to replace his vt220-sh (southern hemisphere) with a -nh > in order to eliminate the upside down character set. (the downloadable > characters were a vt2xx goodie and not available to the rest of us > field circus types with vt52's and 100's. Jerome Fine replies: I would appreciate some help with the COMPOSE key on a VT220 LK201 keyboard, more specifically what it can do with the VT220 and the details of how it can be done. My actual problem is when I run an old PDP-11 operating system (RT-11), one of the application keypad keys (the keypad zero key - "Op") sends out the same characters as the key ("OP") except that the last character is upper/lower case. While the SL: (Single Line Editor) is running and the TTLC$ bit is on in the JSW (Job Status Word), it is possible to distinguish between both keys, but when an application program runs which turns off the TTLC$ bit, both keys look the same to the SL: if type ahead is used while the application program is running. Is it possible to change the key to output a different sequence of characters, or more specifically, either change the last character to "I" or have the key produce "[36~" so it in effect becomes F22. I would then make the ENTER key = F21, PF1= F22 (as I just said), PF2=F23, PF3=F24 and PF4=F25. Alternatively, I would consider any other solution - probably even modifying RT-11 so that after an SS3 ("O" sequence), the third character is not modified if the TANSI$ bit is on (a bit reserved for TECO) which could be a new command: "SET TT: [NO]ANSI". Note that when using RT-11 under Ersatz-11 from John Wilson, it is almost trivial to modify the ENTER, PF1, PF2, PF3, PF4 keys. So even if the temporary solution is to make these changes to the characters generated by these 5 keys, at least under Ersatz-11 it will work very well. Probably, such changes could be controlled via a FLAGn variable so that they could easily be toggled on and off. Note that Any comments would be appreciated. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 4 07:22:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403173942.0262c888@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <584.494T300T8023717optimus@canit.se> Chuck McManis skrev: >At 06:36 PM 4/3/2001 -0500, The Chad wrote: >>Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the >>do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then >>Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. >That's a great idea. I have done the boards in the dish washer trick (they >come out nice and clean, but sometimes lose their labels) Wouldn't they melt or get disformed in the dishwasher? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "It is easier to port a shell than a shell script." --Larry Wall From flo at rdel.co.uk Wed Apr 4 10:51:24 2001 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: VT220 COMPOSE Key Question References: <200104040148.f341mLn01720@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> <3ACB36B7.AE128574@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3ACB42FC.11F1B797@uk.thalesgroup.com> Jerome Fine wrote: > > I would appreciate some help with the COMPOSE key on a VT220 > LK201 keyboard, more specifically what it can do with the VT220 > and the details of how it can be done. The COMPOSE key doesn't let you generate arbitrary sequences of characters. When you press COMPOSE followed by two other characters, the terminal will send an accented character or unusual punctuation mark. These sequences are quite mnemonic, so that COMPOSE ' e (apostrophe e) will produce an "e" with an acute accent. More details in the Using the VT320[1]. > Is it possible to change the key to output a different > sequence of characters, or more specifically, either change the > last character to "I" or have the key produce "[36~" > so it in effect becomes F22. In VT100/200 mode, you the PF1 key will always transmit SS3 P (or ESC O P). In VT52 mode, it will transmit ESC P.[2] You can go into Setup and place the auxiliary keypad in numeric mode rather than application mode. In this case, the zero key would transmit "0". If you need user-definable keys, you can get your host to transmit a sequence (DECUDK) to the VT220 to define the codes sent by the SHIFTED keys F6 to F20. Details of this are in Chapter 4 of the VT220 Programmer Reference Manual[3]. [1] http://vt100.net/docs/vt320-uu/chapter5.html [2] http://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm/table3-3.html [3] http://vt100.net/docs/vt220-rm/chapter4.html#S4.15 From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Apr 4 10:54:55 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working Message-ID: I have a copy of Teledisk, but have not used it, so my comments might not be on the mark. But, I have used other disk format copy programs and know that they have trouble copying Kaypro disks unless the source disk was formated on the target (non-Kaypro) computer. Apparently the Kaypro (and also Zorba) format had some strange features. Might the unusual formatting be the source of Joe's problems? Robert Feldman Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:55 AM To: Joe Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Teledisk not working At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: >Bruce, > > I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two >known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no >complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only >281 bytes in size. When I tried to make disks from the files it said that >the data had a CRC error. From ewy at southwind.net Wed Apr 4 11:36:23 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: RCA Cosmac cdp1802 References: Message-ID: <3ACB4D87.F9863305@southwind.net> I happen to have several rails of CDP1802 chips -- 62 processors IIRC. I got them >10 years ago when my dad brought home a load of junk from where he worked. I have no way to test them, but I presume them to have been good when I got them, and I don't have any reason to believe they would have been damaged in storage. I'd be happy to sell them cheap to anybody on the list who has a good use for them. Say $2.00 each plus shipping. Does that sound reasonable? I might want to keep a couple for myself in case I want to build that old model rocket altimeter project from Radio Electronics (Now) or something. I don't remember what the exact part number was (beyond CDP1802) but I remember that they are in the ceramic package. I don't have them at my place -- they're still in storage at my parents' -- so I probably won't be able to get to them till this weekend. -- Joel Ewy spambegone_ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > does anyone know where i could purchase an RCA Cosmac CDP1802 microprocessor? > > i've looked for one on ebay and at random antique places.... > if anyone could help i would appreciate it From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Apr 4 11:37:26 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: New Toys - Kaypro II & 2 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010404093740.2617d2fc@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 04, 2001 09:37:40 AM Message-ID: <200104041637.JAA15279@eskimo.com> Joe wrote about the Kaypro: > Does anyone have the docs on these upgrades? Does anyone have the MS-DOS > that runs on the 88-CoPower card? I gave someone (was it Roger?) a big load of Kaypro stuff a couple of VCFs ago and the Pro-8 manual may be in there. Or I may be confusing it with a similar ROM upgrade. IIRC one of the features is a new display driver that understands VT52 escape sequences. Sorry, no 88-CoPower stuff. -- Derek From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 4 12:13:36 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working References: Message-ID: <007501c0bd2a$960722a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This matter has come up before, in the context of Kaypro and other formats that are not precisely reproducible with a PC (NEC 765-based) controller. Apparently it's possible to format a diskette in a PC that can be read and written in a Kaypro but formatting the same format in a Kaypro produces results unreadable in a PC. I'm not sure of the details, not being a Kaypro owner. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Feldman, Robert" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:54 AM Subject: RE: Teledisk not working > I have a copy of Teledisk, but have not used it, so my comments might not be > on the mark. But, I have used other disk format copy programs and know that > they have trouble copying Kaypro disks unless the source disk was formated > on the target (non-Kaypro) computer. Apparently the Kaypro (and also Zorba) > format had some strange features. Might the unusual formatting be the source > of Joe's problems? > > Robert Feldman > Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:55 AM > To: Joe > Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Teledisk not working > > > At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bruce, > > > > I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two > >known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no > >complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only > >281 bytes in size. When I tried to make disks from the files it said that > >the data had a CRC error. > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 4 12:25:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: April Fools joke In-Reply-To: <200104040148.f341mLn01720@bg-tc-ppp1394.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Apr 3, 1 09:48:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 840 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010404/b688f2a5/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Apr 4 12:49:43 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <584.494T300T8023717optimus@canit.se> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403173942.0262c888@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010404134943.019f91d0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Iggy Drougge may have mentioned these words: >Chuck McManis skrev: >>That's a great idea. I have done the boards in the dish washer trick (they >>come out nice and clean, but sometimes lose their labels) > >Wouldn't they melt or get disformed in the dishwasher? Whatever you do, don't let them go thru the drying cycle - allow any boards, keyboards, etc.etc.etc. to air dry for a few days before putting power to them. I've not had any good luck with " the old keyboards in the top rack of the dishwasher trick" (too much "Get Smart" lately... ;-) but for "lost causes" I've suggested it to others with decent success... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 4 12:47:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Apr 4, 1 09:54:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1048 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010404/7ab88fd8/attachment.ksh From vaxman at qwest.net Wed Apr 4 12:49:07 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <3ACAEF1E.8A9BC310@internet1.net> Message-ID: Yeah, I got a system that had been stored in a garage with a dog... It really started to stink after running about 20 minutes :( I took it apart, load all the bits into the dishwasher, ran a cycle, let everything dry for a week or so, put it together, and voila! no more odors :) clint On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Pet Oders?? Fortunetly, thats one I haven't had to deal with! > > CHad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > > > I've run PC and Apple cases through the dishwasher with no ill > > effects... Gets out smoke (cigarette) stains, and pet odors too :) > > > > clint > > From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 4 13:39:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Feldman, Robert wrote: > I have a copy of Teledisk, but have not used it, so my comments might not be > on the mark. But, I have used other disk format copy programs and know that > they have trouble copying Kaypro disks unless the source disk was formated > on the target (non-Kaypro) computer. Apparently the Kaypro (and also Zorba) > format had some strange features. Might the unusual formatting be the source > of Joe's problems? > > Robert Feldman > Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com I have been using TeleDisk for 10 years - since v1.05 and have never had a problem copying or reproducing Kaypro (or Zorba) disks. The only CP/M disks ( that immediately occur to me ) that choke it up are Altos 8" SS/DSDD disks which are apparently in M2FM format. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:55 AM > To: Joe > Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Teledisk not working > > > At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bruce, > > > > I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two > >known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no > >complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only > >281 bytes in size. When I tried to make disks from the files it said that > >the data had a CRC error. > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 4 14:51:58 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <007501c0bd2a$960722a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Richard (and Robert and Tony) are right. There are two specific weirdities to the Kaypro format. 1) Kaypro uses a Western Digital disk controller v NEC 765 (or 8272) in PC. Since Kaypro has ten 512 byte sectors per track, things are a little crowded. The WD can start recording sonner after the index than the NEC, and in the Kaypro format, they do. Sometimes the NEC based machines can not read the first sector on a track. The work-around is to either do your own formatting, with a longer gap before the first sector than Kaypro uses, or to ignore the index pulse. Ignoring the index pulse can be done temporarily by putting a piece of opaque tape over the index hole of the jacket of the disk (a write protect tab works great, but PLEASE make sure that it is on solidly and doesn't fall off in the drive!), or for more frequent usage, add a switch in the drive or in the cable to interrupt that signal. 2) The other weirdity (in DS Kaypro formats) is the head number fields in the sector headers. One of the fields in the sector header contains the side number of the disk. With the WD controller, you specify which head you want to read or write with, and can ignore the value in the sector header head number field. With the NEC controller, you specify which head you want to read or write with, and MUST specify what value is expected in the sector header head number field. Kaypro, since they didn't care about what value was in that field, put the wrong value in on the second side of the diskette (only relevant on DS Kaypro formats). Therefore, it is POSSIBLE to read and write Kaypro sectors on the second side with a PC, but NOT using INT13 (unless you replace your INT13 with a somewhat different one). Since it is IGNORING that field, the Kaypro does not mind if you use diskettes that have the correct value in the field. The workarounds: A) Use disks with the correct value in the field by NOT using the Kaypro FORMAT program. a. Modify the Kaypro format program (or write a new one) to put a 1 (the correct value) in the field on the second side of disks. b. Use other software, such as XenoCopy-PC on the PC, to format the Kaypro diskette. B) When reading or writing Kaypro diskettes on a PC, bypass INT13, and talk directly to the hardware. Tell the hardware to look for a 0 in the side 1 head number fields. XenoCopy-PC uses workaround #A. Early versions of Uniform used workaround #B, later versions stopped due to too many PC disk controllers that wouldn't work with it. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > This matter has come up before, in the context of Kaypro and other formats that > are not precisely reproducible with a PC (NEC 765-based) controller. Apparently > it's possible to format a diskette in a PC that can be read and written in a > Kaypro but formatting the same format in a Kaypro produces results unreadable in > a PC. I'm not sure of the details, not being a Kaypro owner. > > Dick From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 4 14:53:35 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash??" (Apr 4, 13:22) References: <584.494T300T8023717optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10104042053.ZM14997@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 4, 13:22, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Chuck McManis skrev: > > >At 06:36 PM 4/3/2001 -0500, The Chad wrote: > >>Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the > >>do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then > >>Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. > > >That's a great idea. I have done the boards in the dish washer trick (they > >come out nice and clean, but sometimes lose their labels) > Wouldn't they melt or get disformed in the dishwasher? Fibreglass doesn't melt easily :-) I've put quite a few PCBs through our dishwasher (well it's "ours" when I want to clean PCBs, and my wife's when it's dinner plates). It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 4 15:33:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <10104042053.ZM14997@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Apr 4, 1 07:53:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010404/9b1d5bfb/attachment.ksh From Demon02554 at aol.com Wed Apr 4 15:35:13 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: cdp1802 Message-ID: <57.13f1deba.27fcdf81@aol.com> could everyone who sent me an email about that cdp1802 chip resend please.... my little sister deleted them all before i had a chance to read them....thanks From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Apr 4 16:22:29 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash??" (Apr 4, 21:33) References: Message-ID: <10104042222.ZM15081@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 4, 21:33, Tony Duell wrote: > A word of warning. Do not use the water-boiling device often used to > prepare water for tea/coffee for boiling belts Similarly, the low-vacuum generator often found in the broom cupboard should be used with care. Whilst it is useful for gathering up small mechanical or electronic components dropped in awkward places, if it is of the type that "beats as it sweeps etc", it must not be used be used to recover the contents of a box of Winchester primers. The primers will not be usable afterwards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 4 16:39:30 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? Message-ID: Errm, since I'm assuming you're talking guns here, I'd imagine the vacuum stands a good chance of not being operable afterwards, too! Reminds me of my mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 4 18:41:20 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <463.495T1000T414957optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >The only reference I can find to IBM ScanMaster is the German archive >edition of ComputerWeek: >http://www.computerwoche.de/archiv.cfm?path=http://www.computerwoche.de/archi >v/1990/24/9024c041.html There is no reference to any IBM machine there, it's just a 1990 vintage flatbed scanner which happens to share its rather unimaginative name. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 4 18:11:40 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: Message-ID: <0bac01c0bd5c$9becc440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> First fax machine was over 100 years ago with synchronized >> pendulums. >How do you synchronize to a remote pendulum? I'm stepping into memories now, including college physics, But, as I recall and understand, the pendulums would basically oscillate at the same frequency since they were of the same length. All that would be required is to send a synch pulse at the end of a scan (rough analog to TV VIR) to align the next full scan. The remainder body of the pendulum swing would be kept in tune using only the ballistic physics of the thing. To the other poster, the article I have is of a later invention, but still massivly old. (Going to get it now) John A. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 4 18:31:24 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape Message-ID: Due to my computing interests becoming very much centered in the IBM world, and also due to 2 tons of Big Blue stuff coming shortly, I have decided to sell off a PDP-8/i. I promised the original seller that I would not Ebay the thing, so I am keeping it to only a few lists. The machine looks like an 8K PDP-8/i, with a highspeed paper tape reader/puch (PCmumblefoo). It looks complete, although I have not checked it 100 percent. Certainly the hard-to-find parts are there (namely the panel and the two core stacks). The rack is not original, and frankly, is ugly. The power supply seems very kludged in (although it looks DEC). This ain't a plug and play 'puter, folks. It needs a cleanup and a tune up. I have a doc set (not included, but I can copy (have to copy one for Will, anyway). Send me an offer if interested. I am located in New York, near Connecticut. No shipping on this item - either you pick up, or I deliver within a few hundred miles (Boston, Washington, maybe Cleveland or even Chicago) for my expenses. Some pictures: http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.jpg http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.upper.jpg http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.inside.jpg http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.fc.jpg William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 4 19:50:58 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: <3ACAD744.B9935C4A@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <0bec01c0bd6a$7b117aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I'd be interested in seeing the article. I've repaired many fax > machines and was unaware that they have been around for this long! OK, this one's a 1907 prototype But! it's for continuous tone images. The process is called "Belin Telephotography" and it resembles the machine in "Bullitt" mentioned earlier, but as a proto. The dual pendulums thing I think I saw in one of the James Burke, er, programmes. See: http://www.panix.com/~allain/belin/ (warning: cut rate contrast matching) If someone wants to OCR this, I'll incorporate it. John A. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Apr 4 19:54:00 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: PDP-11 BBS Message-ID: <3ACBC228.23328A9F@heathers.stdio.com> I am looking for some ideas for putting one of my DEC machines on the net. I used to run a Unix bbs years ago on a 386 running Xenix and XBBS and really enjoyed it a lot. I noticed that the source is still around for that program on the net. This is what I have: 11/23+ running RT-11. I have the TCP-IP package for it and I beleive I have everything I need to make it work. 11/53 running RSX but I can probably coax BSD on it without a problem. VAXstation II running VAX/VMS 4.4 but I also have netBSD for it. I know nothing about VMS. I want to make these machines available but at the same time I want to batten down the hatches so they are not wide open for troublemakers. I personally would like to put the 11/23+ on the net. If I could make that work, then it would be easy to duplicate it on my 11/34 and put that on the net. These would be running behind my IP masq'ed Linux router. I could port forward Telnet and FTP services. Maybe even HTTP if I could get that working on the RT-11 box. Right now thats going to my current web server. Any ideas? Brian. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Apr 4 19:55:18 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working Message-ID: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:55:00 -0700 Bruce Lane writes: > Joe, and other Teledisk group buy participants, > > I've got some bad news. It appears that, within the last > year or two, Sydex has completely sold off the rights to Teledisk, and the > product itself, to a company called Forensics International. FI's web page > clearly states that they will sell only to law enforcement agencies and > Fortune-1000 companies that can show a need for the software. Nazi facist bastards! I'll bet there's a *conspiracy* at work here! (Where's Fox Mulder when you need him?) These assholes even claim that: "TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was developed to distribute software via BBS's (and other electonic means). Rrrrrrrr. Now I'm pissed. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From azog at azog.org Wed Apr 4 19:55:18 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape References: Message-ID: <001201c0bd6b$18468900$0a00a8c0@azog> I'll take it :) I live in NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 7:31 PM Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape > Due to my computing interests becoming very much centered in the IBM > world, and also due to 2 tons of Big Blue stuff coming shortly, I have > decided to sell off a PDP-8/i. I promised the original seller that I > would not Ebay the thing, so I am keeping it to only a few lists. > > The machine looks like an 8K PDP-8/i, with a highspeed paper tape > reader/puch (PCmumblefoo). It looks complete, although I have not checked > it 100 percent. Certainly the hard-to-find parts are there (namely the > panel and the two core stacks). The rack is not original, and frankly, is > ugly. The power supply seems very kludged in (although it looks DEC). > > This ain't a plug and play 'puter, folks. It needs a cleanup and a tune > up. I have a doc set (not included, but I can copy (have to copy > one for Will, anyway). > > Send me an offer if interested. I am located in New York, near > Connecticut. No shipping on this item - either you pick up, or I > deliver within a few hundred miles (Boston, Washington, maybe Cleveland > or even Chicago) for my expenses. > > Some pictures: > > http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.jpg > http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.upper.jpg > http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.inside.jpg > http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.fc.jpg > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 4 20:00:56 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk still supported! (whew!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010404101032.315fdc6e@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20010402183043.009e3d40@192.168.42.129> <3.0.1.16.20010402183032.08a7f884@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.5.32.20010401120517.009b9d40@192.168.42.129> <000201c0bad4$d6710ca0$ea01a8c0@sparelaptop> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010404180056.009aedd0@192.168.42.129> At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: >Bruce, > > I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two >known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no >complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only OK! Great news waiting in my inbox when I came home. First: Joe, I've forwarded the description you E-mailed me to both Sydex and Forensics Intl. And that leads into the second part: F-I is perfectly willing to pick up support for those involved in the group buy. The fact that we were legacy customers of Sydex is what did it. So, everyone who bought Teledisk can start breathing again. We're still supported. Joe, I'll forward whatever answer I get back to you. It is also possible that F-I support may open a dialogue directly with you. I did offer them that option, and I gave them your E-address. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jss at ou.edu Wed Apr 4 07:55:08 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: HP 3388 Integrator? Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010404075035.00a6cff8@pop.ou.edu> Yesterday, while prowling through the University of Oklahoma surplus shop, I found a HP 3388 Integrator. It looked vaguely computerish, with ports for a terminal and tape, and a power switch with a label like "memory contents zeroed when set to off". The only relevant thing returned by a quick Google search for "hp 3388 integrator" is this page: http://www.alphaomegatech.com/datahint.htm Have I found anything interesting (for the $10 it costs)? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 4 20:17:01 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! Message-ID: <3ACBC78D.6B18150C@internet1.net> Well here it is...... I hooked the Vax up to my IBM Model 80 with Tera Term. Anybody have any other favorite terminal programs? What should I be able to see from the below info? >>>show mem Memory 0: 00000000 to 003FFFFF, 4MB, 0 bad pages Memory 1: 00400000 to 00BFFFFF, 8MB, 0 bad pages Memory 2: 00C00000 to 01BFFFFF, 16MB, 0 bad pages Memory 3: 01C00000 to 02BFFFFF, 16MB, 0 bad pages Total of 44MB, 0 bad pages, 118 reserved pages >>>show dev DSSI Node 0 (TSD4A) -DIA0 (RF71) DSSI Node 1 (R5ARYC) -DIA23 (RF35) DSSI Node 2 (R5DKVC) -DIA20 (RF35) DSSI Node 7 (*) UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) -MUA0 (TK70) Ethernet Adapter -ESA0 (08-00-2B-12-41-19) >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O Space -20000120 (760440) = 0080 (300) DHQ11/DHV11/CXA16/CXB16/CXY08 -20000122 (760442) = F081 -20000124 (760444) = DD18 -20000126 (760446) = 0140 -20000128 (760450) = 0000 -2000012A (760452) = 0000 -2000012C (760454) = 8000 -2000012E (760456) = 0000 -20001940 (774500) = 0000 (260) TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPE -20001942 (774502) = 0BC0 -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR Scan of Qbus Memory Space >>>help Following is a brief summary of all the commands supported by the console: UPPERCASE denotes a keyword that you must type in | denotes an OR condition [] denotes optional parameters <> denotes a field that must be filled in with a syntactically correct value Valid qualifiers: /B /W /L /Q /INSTRUCTION /G /I /V /P /M /STEP: /N: /NOT /WRONG /U Valid commands: DEPOSIT []
[ []] EXAMINE [] [
] MOVE []
SEARCH []
[] SET BFLG SET BOOT [:] SET HOST/DUP/DSSI [] SET HOST/DUP/UQSSP [] SET HOST/DUP/UQSSP [] SET HOST/MAINTENANCE/UQSSP/SERVICE SET HOST/MAINTENANCE/UQSSP SET LANGUAGE SHOW BFLG SHOW BOOT SHOW DEVICE SHOW DSSI SHOW ETHERNET SHOW LANGUAGE SHOW MEMORY [/FULL] SHOW QBUS SHOW RLV12 SHOW UQSSP SHOW VERSION HALT INITIALIZE UNJAM CONTINUE START
REPEAT X
FIND [/MEMORY | /RPB] TEST [ []] BOOT [/R5: | /] [[:]] NEXT [count] CONFIGURE HELP >>>boot No default boot device has been specified. Available devices. -DIA0 (RF71) -DIA23 (RF35) -DIA20 (RF35) -MUA0 (TK70) -ESA0 (08-00-2B-12-41-19) Device? [ESA0]: dia0 (BOOT/R5:0 DIA0) 2.. -TSD4A$DIA0 1..0.. %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SYSDUMP.DMP on System Disk successfully mapped OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V6.2 Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0 %DECnet-I-LOADED, network base image loaded, version = 05.08.00 PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 04-APR-2001 %SYSINIT, primary PAGEFILE.SYS not found; system initialization continuing $! Copyright (c) 1995 Digital Equipment Corporation. All rights reserved. %STDRV-I-STARTUP, OpenVMS startup begun at 4-APR-2001 00:02:05.12 %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined symbol - check validity and spelling \B$\ >>> Starting TCPIP ... <<< %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, USER mounted on _$1$DIA20: (R5DKVC) %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in progress %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, USER2 mounted on _$1$DIA23: (R5ARYC) %MOUNT-I-REBUILD, volume was improperly dismounted; rebuild in progress %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SYSTEM_1 spawned %SET-I-NEWAUDSRV, identification of new audit server process is 0000010A %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:24.51 %%%%%%%%%%% Operator _ALERTN$OPA0: has been enabled, username SYSTEM %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:25.13 %%%%%%%%%%% Operator status for operator _ALERTN$OPA0: CENTRAL, PRINTER, TAPES, DISKS, DEVICES, CARDS, NETWORK, CLUSTER, SECURITY, LICENSE, OPER1, OPER2, OPER3, OPER4, OPER5, OPER6, OPER7, OPER8, OPER9, OPER10, OPER11, OPER12 %LICENSE-W-TERM, UNICM 99302-323 License has terminated %SYSTEM-W-PROXYCONVERT, old-format proxy database needs to be converted %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:38.55 %%%%%%%%%%% Failed logfile operation on file _ALERTN$OPA0: SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]OPERATOR.LOG; %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:39.15 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:39.16 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN %LICENSE-E-TERM, UNICM 99302-323 License has terminated %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:39.16 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN %QMAN-W-CRITCLSPACE, free more space on _$1$DIA0 - allocated only 20% of 520 blo cks needed for full journal file %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:39.17 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:40.21 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN %QMAN-E-OPENERR, error opening $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]SYS$QUEUE_MANAGE R.QMAN$JOURNAL;1 %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:40.21 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN -RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocation) %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:40.22 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN -SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:40.50 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN %QMAN-E-NODISKSPACE, disk space not available for queue manager to continue %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:40.51 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN -QMAN-I-FREEDISK, free up 1044 blocks on disk _$1$DIA0 Copyright (c) Digital Equipment Corporation 1993, 1994. All rights reserved. %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:42.69 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN %SECSRV-E-NOPROXYDB, cannot find proxy database file NET$PROXY.DAT %RMS-E-FNF, file not found %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:42.87 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN %SECSRV-E-NOPROXYDB, cannot find proxy database file NET$PROXY.DAT %RMS-E-FNF, file not found %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:42.94 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN %SECSRV-I-SERVERSTARTINGU, security server starting up %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:43.81 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN %SECSRV-I-CIASTARTINGUP, breakin detection and evasion processing now starting u p %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:44.43 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:46.76 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:48.98 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %SHOW-F-WRITEERR, error writing SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$STARTUP]NET$STARTUP_CHECKPRIVS. DAT;4 -RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocation) %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:53.80 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:56.42 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:03:58.97 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:01.75 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure >>> Executing SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM for VMS 6.2 startup procedure <<< %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:04.08 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) and security audit (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62 474 Auditable event: Audit server starting up Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:02.41 PID: 00000103 Username: SYSTEM %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:04.46 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file removal Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:03.73 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]ANALIMDMP.EXE;1 INSTALL flags: /PRIVILEGED Privileges: CMKRNL,CMEXEC %MOUNT-F-VOLALRMNT, another volume of same label already mounted %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:06.23 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %MOUNT-F-VOLALRMNT, another volume of same label already mounted %SYSGEN-W-OPENIN, error opening $1$DIA20:[000000]PAGEFILE2.SYS; as input -RMS-E-FNF, file not found >>> Disk Startup Complete <<< >>> Disk startup procedure completed <<< %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:09.01 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure Copyright (c) 1995 Digital Equipment Corporation. All rights reserved. %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:12.38 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %AMDS-I-RMSTART, starting Data Provider processing for this node %AMDS-I-LOADSECDB, loading security database %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:14.57 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %AMDS-S-RMSUCCESS, Data Provider startup successful >>> Terminals Startup Complete <<< >>> Terminals startup procedure completed <<< >>> Accounting disable procedure completed <<< %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:17.13 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:19.09 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:19.05 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]UCX$ACCESS_SHR.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/SHARED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:19.78 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:20.07 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:20.04 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSMSG]UCX$MSG.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/SHARED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:20.96 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:20.92 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]UCX$IPC_SHR.EXE;2 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/SHARED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:21.94 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:21.90 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]UCX$RPCXDR_SHR.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/SHARED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:22.30 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:22.90 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:22.86 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]UCX$CFS_SHR.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/SHARED/PROTECTED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:23.93 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:23.89 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$UCP.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/HEADER_RESIDENT/SHARED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:24.87 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:28.27 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:31.01 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:33.59 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:33.55 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$BIND_SERVER.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/HEADER_RESIDENT/SHARED/PRIVILEGED Privileges: OPER %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:34.05 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:34.58 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:34.54 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$BIND_SERVER_XFER.EX E;2 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/HEADER_RESIDENT/SHARED/PRIVILEGED Privileges: OPER %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:36.34 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:36.30 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$FTPC.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/HEADER_RESIDENT/SHARED/PRIVILEGED Privileges: PSWAPM,OPER %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:36.54 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - ERROR ACCESSING ERROR LOG FILE %RMS-F-FUL, device full (insufficient space for allocati %SYSTEM-W-DEVICEFULL, device full; allocation failure %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:36.60 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user SYSTEM on ALERTN ERRFMT - DELETING ERRFMT PROCESS ERROR LOG FILE UNWRITABLE TO RESTART ERRFMT PROCESS, USE "@SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP ERRFMT" %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:37.73 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:37.69 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$FTPD.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/HEADER_RESIDENT/SHARED/PRIVILEGED Privileges: SYSNAM,DETACH,WORLD,BYPASS %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:39.47 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:39.44 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$FTP.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/HEADER_RESIDENT/SHARED/PRIVILEGED Privileges: PSWAPM,OPER %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:41.00 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:40.97 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSLIB]UCX$LPD_SHR.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /OPEN/SHARED %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:04:41.68 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user AUDIT$SERVER on ALERTN Security alarm (SECURITY) on ALERTN, system id: 62474 Auditable event: Installed file addition Event time: 4-APR-2001 00:04:41.65 PID: 00000103 Process name: STARTUP Username: SYSTEM Process owner: [SYSTEM] Image name: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.][SYSEXE]INSTALL.EXE Installed file: $1$DIA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.SYSEXE]UCX$LPD_RCV.EXE;3 INSTALL flags: /PRIVILEGED Privileges: BYPASS %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:05:40.50 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN %QMAN-E-NODISKSPACE, disk space not available for queue manager to continue %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:05:40.52 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN -QMAN-I-FREEDISK, free up 1044 blocks on disk _$1$DIA0 %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:07:40.50 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN %QMAN-E-NODISKSPACE, disk space not available for queue manager to continue %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:07:40.52 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN -QMAN-I-FREEDISK, free up 1044 blocks on disk _$1$DIA0 %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:09:40.51 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN %QMAN-E-NODISKSPACE, disk space not available for queue manager to continue %%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 4-APR-2001 00:09:40.52 %%%%%%%%%%% Message from user QUEUE_MANAGE on ALERTN -QMAN-I-FREEDISK, free up 1044 blocks on disk _$1$DIA0 ?02 EXT HLT PC = 82221B4D >>>show boot DIA0 >>> Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 4 19:26:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:50 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > writes: > > Joe, and other Teledisk group buy participants, > > > > I've got some bad news. It appears that, within the last > > year or two, Sydex has completely sold off the rights to Teledisk, and > the > > product itself, to a company called Forensics International. FI's web > page > > clearly states that they will sell only to law enforcement agencies and > > Fortune-1000 companies that can show a need for the software. > > Nazi facist bastards! I'll bet there's a *conspiracy* at work here! > (Where's Fox Mulder when you need him?) > > These assholes even claim that: > > "TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department > in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." > > Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was > developed to distribute software via BBS's (and other electonic > means). > > Rrrrrrrr. Now I'm pissed. This is undoubtedly complete bullshit. I didn't know that only law enforcement personel are entitled to do data conversion between different disk media formats. Someone better tell all these companies providing data conversion services that they are engaging in prohibited activities, akin to encrypting your e-mail messages. I can see the day when reading the source HTML of a web page might even be deemed subversive. The folks at Forensics International obviously have their heads crammed way up their asses. I think it's time for a certain someone to resurrect XenoCopy ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 4 19:29:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk still supported! (whew!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010404180056.009aedd0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bruce Lane wrote: > And that leads into the second part: F-I is perfectly willing to > pick up support for those involved in the group buy. The fact that we > were legacy customers of Sydex is what did it. > > So, everyone who bought Teledisk can start breathing again. > We're still supported. Joe, I'll forward whatever answer I get back to > you. It is also possible that F-I support may open a dialogue directly > with you. I did offer them that option, and I gave them your > E-address. Breath easy? It still doesn't change the fact that some lamefuck company has commandeered a program that was once routinely used by any mere mortal in the public sector and deemed it too dangerous for use by commoners. You gotta love the law enforcement mentality--there to protect us from ourselves! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 4 20:47:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <3ACBC78D.6B18150C@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 04, 2001 08:17:01 PM Message-ID: <200104050147.SAA20405@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well here it is...... > > I hooked the Vax up to my IBM Model 80 with Tera Term. Anybody have any > other favorite terminal programs? I rather like TELIX, of course I prefer a real VT420. > What should I be able to see from the below info? Well, with 44MB RAM on a VAX, you've a nice chunk of RAM. The big thing I notice is that it looks like you probably need to go in and clean up old log files a "PURGE *.LOG" right after logging in might help. It looks like you probably also need to take a look at the OpenVMS FAQ and learn how to bypass the password on the SYSTEM account so you can gain access to your system. All in all it looks like you've got yourself a pretty nice VAX. It's a great system for running VMS on. One question, if you don't kill it while it's coming up like you apparently did, will it boot all the way up to the login prompt? Zane From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 4 20:54:05 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010404185405.009c7b60@192.168.42.129> At 19:55 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: >Nazi facist bastards! I'll bet there's a *conspiracy* at work here! >(Where's Fox Mulder when you need him?) Whoa! Chill out! They've since gotten back to me, and have been very nice about offering support. >These assholes even claim that: > >"TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department > in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." > >Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was No, that's a bunch of hooey. The folks at Sydex developed Teledisk to enable the transmission of a complete image of an original disk via any sort of system that could deal with the file. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 4 20:55:33 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? References: Message-ID: <002501c0bd73$80889fa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Heating load-deformed die-cast plastic parts will often restore them to their original shape, but don't overdo the heating. This is true of MANY plastics, but it doesn't hurt to know something of what you're working on before getting started. This is primarily true of parts still mostly in their "elastic" region, though I've been surprised at the results involving what I thought to be hopelessly deformed parts. Belts with polyester cord in them will shrink when heated to nearly the boiling point of water. That's not universally true of all belts, however. In cases where the belt is made of Styrene Butadiene Rubber or Neoprene this should work in any case. Otherwise hopelessly stretched polyurethane belts have done the shrinking bit for me as well, when heated. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? > A word of warning. Do not use the water-boiling device often used to > prepare water for tea/coffee for boiling belts [1]. If you do, said > drinks will taste odd for weeks afterwards. > > [1] Sometimes, a slack rubber drive belt can be improved by putting it in > boiling water. This is very much a temporary bodge, but if you don't have > a spare belt and need the device NOW, it may work until you can get the > new belt. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 4 20:59:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk still supported! (whew!) References: Message-ID: <002d01c0bd74$169b33e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I guess it's time we got out our "sampler" prototypes again and got back to work. A recorded bitwise image of a diskette is not only reduceable to its data content, but also to a bitwise image that can be transmitted via the net. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 6:29 PM Subject: Re: Teledisk still supported! (whew!) > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bruce Lane wrote: > > > And that leads into the second part: F-I is perfectly willing to > > pick up support for those involved in the group buy. The fact that we > > were legacy customers of Sydex is what did it. > > > > So, everyone who bought Teledisk can start breathing again. > > We're still supported. Joe, I'll forward whatever answer I get back to > > you. It is also possible that F-I support may open a dialogue directly > > with you. I did offer them that option, and I gave them your > > E-address. > > Breath easy? It still doesn't change the fact that some lamefuck company > has commandeered a program that was once routinely used by any mere mortal > in the public sector and deemed it too dangerous for use by commoners. > > You gotta love the law enforcement mentality--there to protect us from > ourselves! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 4 21:08:19 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working References: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3ACBD393.988B4964@mindless.com> Pure government/law enforcement mentality at work! "We have to be able to read any format in existence to cover every imaginable contingency, no matter how unlikely or absurd." How many high-tech criminals do you suppose are doing their dastardly deeds on original Kaypros these days? Could there be vast child pornography and wire fraud rings tapping away on our beloved vintage computers (and perhaps linked via 300 baud BBS systems?) Murder contracts typed up on that TRS-80 model 1 perhaps? (It does have a certain appeal as a plot element of a techno-thriller, though, doesn't it?) Or are they simply so backlogged that they're just now getting around to the evidence they seized in 1980 due to the acute shortage of government round tuits? Someone should tell them that a smart computer criminal is going to encrypt his secret data, not keep it as plain text on an obsolete computer system in hopes that they will forget to seize the computer and thus be unable later (30 years later?) to read the data stored on their floppies. :) There's an excellent book (available for free reading on-line) called the "Hacker Crackdown" which I'm just finishing. If it is to be believed, when they do a computer crime raid, they seize EVERYTHING that's even remotely computer-like, including mousepads, calculators, tape players, music CDs and vinyl records (maybe they're data media cleverly disguised as music or cassettes!), and probably that box of cookies with a picture of a computer on the side too. I heard one raid was particularly hard on Jelly Bellies... That putative crime-infested Kaypro would be going out the door along with the Athalon, G4 and P4 systems, and most everything else; no problem there. :) -- Ross Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 07:55:00 -0700 Bruce Lane > writes: > > Joe, and other Teledisk group buy participants, > > > > I've got some bad news. It appears that, within the last > > year or two, Sydex has completely sold off the rights to Teledisk, and > the > > product itself, to a company called Forensics International. FI's web > page > > clearly states that they will sell only to law enforcement agencies and > > Fortune-1000 companies that can show a need for the software. > > Nazi facist bastards! I'll bet there's a *conspiracy* at work here! > (Where's Fox Mulder when you need him?) > > These assholes even claim that: > > "TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department > in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." > > Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was > developed to distribute software via BBS's (and other electonic > means). > > Rrrrrrrr. Now I'm pissed. > > Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 4 23:12:25 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: <3ACAD744.B9935C4A@kcinter.net> <0bec01c0bd6a$7b117aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3ACBF0A9.E6D9E802@kcinter.net> Thank You John!~ If you or anyone else has any sources of this kind of info, Please pass it along! Bill Claussen elecdata1 John Allain wrote: > > I'd be interested in seeing the article. I've repaired many fax > > machines and was unaware that they have been around for this long! > > OK, this one's a 1907 prototype But! it's for continuous tone images. > The process is called "Belin Telephotography" and it resembles the > machine in "Bullitt" mentioned earlier, but as a proto. > The dual pendulums thing I think I saw in one of the James Burke, > er, programmes. > > See: http://www.panix.com/~allain/belin/ > (warning: cut rate contrast matching) > If someone wants to OCR this, I'll incorporate it. > > John A. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Apr 4 22:06:39 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <3ACBC78D.6B18150C@internet1.net> Message-ID: You should be able to do a BOOT/R5:00000001 DIA0: and at the SYSBOOT> prompt do a SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" SYSBOOT> CONTINUE to get to a minimum boot prompt to delete stuff. If it asks for a password and you don't know it you might have to gp back to SYSBOOT> and do the SET UAFALTERNATE 1 or "TRUE" or whatever it says in the VMS FAQ (going from memory here) (if you do need to crack the SYSTEM password, unlike what is says in the VMS FAQ I found that you don't need to enter SYSTEM as the password you can enter whatever you want or blank at the password prompt and then hit CTRL Z a few times once you've passed the password prompt and you will get in once that UAFALTERNATE is changed) Once in to $ you can do a SET DEF DIA0:[000000] PURGE/LOG [...]*.log,[...]*.old to get rid of old file versions that might be left lying around taking up space DIRECT/SEL=SIZ=MIN=1000 [...] to look for large files or whatever Paul -- From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 4 21:08:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <3ACBD393.988B4964@mindless.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > There's an excellent book (available for free reading on-line) called > the "Hacker Crackdown" which I'm just finishing. If it is to be > believed, when they do a computer crime raid, they seize EVERYTHING > that's even remotely computer-like, including mousepads, calculators, > tape players, music CDs and vinyl records (maybe they're data media > cleverly disguised as music or cassettes!), and probably that box of > cookies with a picture of a computer on the side too. I heard one raid > was particularly hard on Jelly Bellies... Oh yes, it is to be believed. These sorts of raids and confiscations were routine during the 80s and early 90s. Ever heard of "Operation Sundevil"? That was the last major nationwide "hacker"ocrackdown" in the 90s. I read "Hacker Crackdown" years ago and can't remember if it describes those particular raids. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Apr 4 23:07:56 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <584.494T300T8023717optimus@canit.se> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010403173942.0262c888@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010404210739.0313f890@mail.zipcon.net> just don't use the heated dry or pots/pans cycle... :) At 01:22 PM 4/4/01 +0100, you wrote: >Chuck McManis skrev: > > >At 06:36 PM 4/3/2001 -0500, The Chad wrote: > >>Kidding.... Actually I just took the plastic case from my 3400 up the > >>do-it-yourself car wash. I used the engine/tire cleaner on it, and then > >>Comet Cleanser. It turned out nicely..... it is drying now. > > >That's a great idea. I have done the boards in the dish washer trick (they > >come out nice and clean, but sometimes lose their labels) > >Wouldn't they melt or get disformed in the dishwasher? > >-- >En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > "It is easier to port a shell than a shell script." > --Larry Wall From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 4 22:54:29 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > This is undoubtedly complete bullshit. I didn't know that only law > enforcement personel are entitled to do data conversion between different > disk media formats. The FBI, NSA, CIA, and Bureau of Public Roads (CIA front) all bought copies of XenoCopy. And there were a LOT of copies purchased by "John Smith" type names at various other addresses in Langley, Virginia. But the NSA and FBI seemed to be content to only pay for one copy each -- NO respect for copyright law. > Someone better tell all these companies providing > data conversion services that they are engaging in prohibited activities, > akin to encrypting your e-mail messages. I can see the day when reading > the source HTML of a web page might even be deemed subversive. When data conversion is outlawed, only outlaws will convert data. > I think it's time for a certain someone to resurrect XenoCopy ;) Although I am very slow in filling what few orders there are now, it IS still available, sorta. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 4 22:58:09 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Apr 04, 2001 07:08:55 PM Message-ID: <200104050358.XAA15146@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Sellam Ismail once stated: > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > There's an excellent book (available for free reading on-line) called > > the "Hacker Crackdown" which I'm just finishing. If it is to be > > believed, when they do a computer crime raid, they seize EVERYTHING > > that's even remotely computer-like, including mousepads, calculators, > > tape players, music CDs and vinyl records (maybe they're data media > > cleverly disguised as music or cassettes!), and probably that box of > > cookies with a picture of a computer on the side too. I heard one raid > > was particularly hard on Jelly Bellies... > > Oh yes, it is to be believed. > > These sorts of raids and confiscations were routine during the 80s and > early 90s. Ever heard of "Operation Sundevil"? That was the last major > nationwide "hacker"ocrackdown" in the 90s. I read "Hacker Crackdown" > years ago and can't remember if it describes those particular raids. I think it does (if I recall; the book is home, I'm not). Also, Operation Sundevil was responsible for the formation of the EFF [1]. -spc (I think it's not quite as bad as it used to be ... ) [1] John Perry Barlow, Grateful Dead lyricist, was visited by the FBI around the time of Operation Sundevil [2] and he found the FBI agent nice, but completely overwhelmed by technology. After the visit he wrote "Crime and Puzzlement" (do a Google search to find it) about the visit, and shortly after it was published, he got together with Mitch Kapor and formed the EFF to keep law enforcement from trampling our rights in the electronic sphere. [2] It was also during this time that Erik Bloodaxe, editor of "Phrack," was indicted, along with three other hackers, for the publication of an AT&T document about 911. AT&T claimed the document was worth over $79,000 (US, 1990) and would do irrepreble damage to the phone system, but the defense was able to show that the document in question was available to *anyone* for about $15 (US, 1990). AT&T quietly dropped the case. From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Apr 4 23:17:44 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <3ACBD393.988B4964@mindless.com> References: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010404211522.0318a080@mail.zipcon.net> At 07:08 PM 4/4/01 -0700, you wrote: > >There's an excellent book (available for free reading on-line) called >the "Hacker Crackdown" which I'm just finishing. >If it is to be believed, when they do a computer crime >raid, they seize EVERYTHING that's even remotely >computer-like, including mousepads, calculators, >tape players, music CDs and vinyl records (maybe they're >data media cleverly disguised as music or cassettes!), and >probably that box of cookies with a picture of a computer >on the side too. I heard one raid was particularly hard on >Jelly Bellies... It is true. a gal I know who used to live in Florida was busted for putting nude pictures of herself up on the internet, seems that a local law enforcement officer took it upon himself to subscribe to her site under an assumed name and download the "offensive" pictures of her. when they raided her house, they took her computers, calculators, digital camera, her kids computers, electronic toys, etc..... what a wonderful world we live in :( From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Apr 4 23:05:52 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: HP 3388 Integrator? Message-ID: <03b001c0bd87$703c5290$0d261bce@L166> It is for a Gas or liquid Chromatrograph. It communicates to the GC via HPIL. ( Serial 2 wire loop) Most have been replaced with PC based data systems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey S. Sharp To: ClassicCmp Mailing List Date: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:19 PM Subject: HP 3388 Integrator? >Yesterday, while prowling through the University of Oklahoma surplus shop, >I found a HP 3388 Integrator. It looked vaguely computerish, with ports >for a terminal and tape, and a power switch with a label like "memory >contents zeroed when set to off". The only relevant thing returned by a >quick Google search for "hp 3388 integrator" is this page: > >http://www.alphaomegatech.com/datahint.htm > >Have I found anything interesting (for the $10 it costs)? > >-- >Jeffrey S. Sharp >jss@ou.edu From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 4 23:36:26 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <10104042222.ZM15081@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 4, 21:33, Tony Duell wrote: > > > A word of warning. Do not use the water-boiling device often used to > > prepare water for tea/coffee for boiling belts > > Similarly, the low-vacuum generator often found in the broom cupboard > should be used with care. Whilst it is useful for gathering up small > mechanical or electronic components dropped in awkward places, if it is of > the type that "beats as it sweeps etc", it must not be used be used to > recover the contents of a box of Winchester primers. The primers will not > be usable afterwards. One presumes that you are not refering to the harddisk area, but rather to the repeating arms folks. - don > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 4 23:40:32 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: <0bac01c0bd5c$9becc440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, John Allain wrote: > >> First fax machine was over 100 years ago with synchronized > >> pendulums. > > >How do you synchronize to a remote pendulum? > > I'm stepping into memories now, including college physics, > But, as I recall and understand, the pendulums would basically > oscillate at the same frequency since they were of the same length. > All that would be required is to send a synch pulse at the end > of a scan (rough analog to TV VIR) to align the next full scan. > The remainder body of the pendulum swing would be kept > in tune using only the ballistic physics of the thing. OK, that is reasonable, but I would presume that when a return 'fax' was to be sent it would be necessary to 're-synch' in the reverse direction to compensate for delays. - don > To the other poster, the article I have is of a later > invention, but still massivly old. (Going to get it now) > > John A. > > From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 5 00:04:19 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11 BBS In-Reply-To: <3ACBC228.23328A9F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > I am looking for some ideas for putting one of my DEC machines on the > net. I used to run a Unix bbs years ago on a 386 running Xenix and XBBS [...] > Any ideas? That reminds me of when I first got my PDP-11/73 running TSX-Plus and RT-11. Some of the files needed to use the assembler were missing, and the only other language on the system was COBOL-Plus. Wanting to use this system for a BBS, I set out to do something unusual with COBOL: write a BBS program. The result was the creation of a BBS called the Gadzooks! BBS. It wasn't perfect, and didn't do a heck of lot other than allow one to post and read messages, etc., but at least it was a way of at least doing something half-way interesting with a PDP-11 and COBOL. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 5 00:15:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: HP 3388 Integrator? In-Reply-To: <03b001c0bd87$703c5290$0d261bce@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Apr 05, 2001 12:05:52 AM Message-ID: <200104050515.f355F1k05870@narnia.int.dittman.net> > It is for a Gas or liquid Chromatrograph. It communicates to the GC via > HPIL. ( Serial 2 wire loop) > Most have been replaced with PC based data systems. I seem to recall HP Integrators also being used with Fairchild (later Schlumberger) ATE systems. Later replaced by VAXen and Fastnet (has anyone else used Fastnet?). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 5 00:17:32 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk still supported! (whew!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010404180056.009aedd0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Bruce Lane wrote: > At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bruce, > > > > I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two > >known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no > >complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only > > > > OK! Great news waiting in my inbox when I came home. > > First: Joe, I've forwarded the description you E-mailed me to both Sydex > and Forensics Intl. > > And that leads into the second part: F-I is perfectly willing to pick up > support for those involved in the group buy. The fact that we were legacy > customers of Sydex is what did it. > > So, everyone who bought Teledisk can start breathing again. We're still > supported. Joe, I'll forward whatever answer I get back to you. It is also > possible that F-I support may open a dialogue directly with you. I did > offer them that option, and I gave them your E-address. Well done, Bruce! - don From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 5 00:18:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? References: Message-ID: <000d01c0bd8f$cdae5060$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I do believe you're right, Don, as the Winchester primers I remember used to come in a plastic block with a hole for each primer. Shotgun primers, at least, having a lip, would probably suffer from the handling abuse dealt out by one of the brush-equipped vacuum cleaners. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? > > > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > On Apr 4, 21:33, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > A word of warning. Do not use the water-boiling device often used to > > > prepare water for tea/coffee for boiling belts > > > > Similarly, the low-vacuum generator often found in the broom cupboard > > should be used with care. Whilst it is useful for gathering up small > > mechanical or electronic components dropped in awkward places, if it is of > > the type that "beats as it sweeps etc", it must not be used be used to > > recover the contents of a box of Winchester primers. The primers will not > > be usable afterwards. > > One presumes that you are not refering to the harddisk area, but rather > to the repeating arms folks. > - don > > > -- > > > > Pete Peter Turnbull > > Network Manager > > Dept. of Computer Science > > University of York > > > > From tony.eros at machm.org Thu Apr 5 00:26:21 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010405012515.00ae2ae0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Ooh, now _this_ is tempting! Any idea how much you'd like to get for it? Does is use any of the same FlipChips as the LINC? -- Tony At 07:31 PM 4/4/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Due to my computing interests becoming very much centered in the IBM >world, and also due to 2 tons of Big Blue stuff coming shortly, I have >decided to sell off a PDP-8/i. I promised the original seller that I >would not Ebay the thing, so I am keeping it to only a few lists. > >The machine looks like an 8K PDP-8/i, with a highspeed paper tape >reader/puch (PCmumblefoo). It looks complete, although I have not checked >it 100 percent. Certainly the hard-to-find parts are there (namely the >panel and the two core stacks). The rack is not original, and frankly, is >ugly. The power supply seems very kludged in (although it looks DEC). > >This ain't a plug and play 'puter, folks. It needs a cleanup and a tune >up. I have a doc set (not included, but I can copy (have to copy >one for Will, anyway). > >Send me an offer if interested. I am located in New York, near >Connecticut. No shipping on this item - either you pick up, or I >deliver within a few hundred miles (Boston, Washington, maybe Cleveland >or even Chicago) for my expenses. > >Some pictures: > >http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.jpg >http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.upper.jpg >http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.inside.jpg >http://www.bestweb.net/~toober/images/PDP8I.fc.jpg > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 5 00:05:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <200104050358.XAA15146@conman.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > [1] John Perry Barlow, Grateful Dead lyricist, was visited by the FBI > around the time of Operation Sundevil [2] and he found the FBI agent > nice, but completely overwhelmed by technology. After the visit he > wrote "Crime and Puzzlement" (do a Google search to find it) about > the visit, and shortly after it was published, he got together with > Mitch Kapor and formed the EFF to keep law enforcement from > trampling our rights in the electronic sphere. I think this is also written about in _Hacker Crackdown_. > [2] It was also during this time that Erik Bloodaxe, editor of > "Phrack," was indicted, along with three other hackers, for > the publication of an AT&T document about 911. AT&T claimed > the document was worth over $79,000 (US, 1990) and would do > irrepreble damage to the phone system, but the defense was > able to show that the document in question was available to > *anyone* for about $15 (US, 1990). AT&T quietly dropped the > case. Well, not so quietly. Erik Bloodaxe had to spend quite a bit of money on lawyers to get the case dropped. He fought it all the way. It was only reluctantly that it was dropped. It's all chronicled in the pages of 2600 magazine from issues of the same era (around 1990). It's amazing what abuses get overlooked in this country every day. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Apr 4 21:56:46 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: HP 7933 help (This is easy, trust me..) Message-ID: <20010405055646.B698@sd160.local> Heeeeellllou all! So I'm going to be playing around with a 7933 disk drive during the weekend and I'd really appreciate some help. The 7933 is a big honkin' washing machine sized hard disk circa <1985 with a nice keypad and a nifty display (it's not seven segment, more likely ten-segment or something like that). The procedure for powering it up is something like this: connect power (normal single-phase 230V), hit circuit breaker, wait, hit "load/unload" button, wait 3 minutes for the disk to spin up, wait 4 minutes for airpurge (I gather this was simply "purge" in previous models, much to the delight of MPE users) and if you're lucky you'll get "drive #" on the display. So this much I know, but I was wondering if anyone has even a short list of the keypad commands (test numbers etc.) I think it has bad blocks and before I try mediainit I might as well run the built-in diags. TIA, -- jht From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 5 01:54:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <10104042053.ZM14997@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash??" (Apr 4, 13:22) <584.494T300T8023717optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >I've put quite a few PCBs through our dishwasher (well it's "ours" when I >want to clean PCBs, and my wife's when it's dinner plates). It's amazing >how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: > the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an >excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying >them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for >baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And >so on... Don't forget the device for rolling out pie dough can also put lumps on your head. Mess with certain wife "critical" items at your own peril. In our house; Leaving anything remotely computer related on top of the washing machine lid is asking for it. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 5 02:43:01 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: "Will Jennings" "Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash??" (Apr 4, 15:39) References: Message-ID: <10104050843.ZM16562@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 4, 15:39, Will Jennings wrote: > Errm, since I'm assuming you're talking guns here, I'd imagine the vacuum > stands a good chance of not being operable afterwards, too! Apparently it was OK. Actually, they were CCI small pistol primers which are a little more sensitive than Winchester ones, but I used a little poetic license because I thought more people would realise what I meant. >From what my friend Mick tells me, some of them went off as they hit the metal innards of the vacuum (rather than the brushes). I believe it was a pretty noisy operation, though! Richard mentioned that Winchester primers come in a flat plastic block; CCI ones come in a small subdivided tray, about half the size of the Winchester one. They're not individually compartmentalised like the Winchester ones and tend to fall out rather easily. Mick had already dropped most of them on the floor once, and picked them all up by hand. When he did it a second time he just decided that the vacuum cleaner provided an easier solution. For those who've not seen them, a tray of primers is about 2" square, and holds 100 small round objects, 0.17" in diameter. > Reminds me of my > mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly > vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 5 03:35:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Free PC handbook In-Reply-To: References: <10104042053.ZM14997@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> "Iggy Drougge" "Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash??" (Apr 4, 13:22) <584.494T300T8023717optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: I got this in the mail today, and I am just passing it on. I don't know what happens when the registration gets filled out without a VIP code, but its a nice free book if it works. http://www.advantechdirect.com My VIP code is NCE011IAG20011B42584 which looks like it is just my code, but if it is its not smart enough to already know who I was. I suggest not filling out the reg unless you have an interest in the products, industrial computers, rack mount, etc. If you are a legitamite user/buyer of this kind of stuff I can't see them griping about the offer being passed around. The free book is the neat PC Handbook, with all the facts on PC parts etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 5 04:06:35 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville Message-ID: Anybody live in Dongleville? (the place where all missing PCMCIA dongles disappear to) Sitting on my desk I have 3 PCMCIA cards I recently purchased that are missing dongles/orphans; Noteworthy SCSI II adapter, NWSCSI01 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D Xircom Netwave Adapter, CNW The Xircom doesn't need a dongle, it needs a friend, ie another card or a base station thing. Xircom sold to Baytech, which passed it on to Nortel, but some old drivers are out there on ftp. I am looking to buy/trade for another card/base, or sell the little devil to somebody that has them. Not fast, 40k Bps, but anything wireless seems like kind of a fun toy. 3Com dongle I KNOW will turn up, so I am less wild about getting one from a distant place, but all deals considered. Noteworthy, it isn't real clear to me just what I would do with this one, but I suspect the dongle is pretty obvious given the SCSI2 connector it must have. If I could use it with one of my old laptops to field test hard drives it would be worth some cost for a cable, but I haven't found anyspecs for it. BTW I bought the 3Com and Noteworthy from a scrapper with a box full at $5 each. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 5 04:31:28 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Oh yes, it is to be believed. > >These sorts of raids and confiscations were routine during the 80s and >early 90s. Ever heard of "Operation Sundevil"? That was the last major >nationwide "hacker"ocrackdown" in the 90s. I read "Hacker Crackdown" >years ago and can't remember if it describes those particular raids. I believe it does go into detail on Sundevil. The full book is available in AmigaGuide format, though I no longer recall where I saw it posted...it's been a couple of years since I saw that version. It was pretty interesting reading though. I remember the BBS raids of the late 80's myself. Mine was never raided but I knew a couple of people that it happened to on charges of 'software piracy'. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Apr 5 05:34:08 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11 BBS References: Message-ID: <3ACC4A20.C6B305A0@heathers.stdio.com> Thats pretty much the way I feel about the PDP-11's. I have about a dozen of them sitting around doing nothing. If anything it will be a fun and unusual project. Brian. "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > That reminds me of when I first got my PDP-11/73 running TSX-Plus and > RT-11. Some of the files needed to use the assembler were missing, > and the only other language on the system was COBOL-Plus. Wanting > to use this system for a BBS, I set out to do something unusual with > COBOL: write a BBS program. The result was the creation of a BBS > called the Gadzooks! BBS. It wasn't perfect, and didn't do a heck of > lot other than allow one to post and read messages, etc., but at least > it was a way of at least doing something half-way interesting with > a PDP-11 and COBOL. :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: > All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." -- ?????? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 5 07:56:39 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010405075639.1aff68ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Robert, Thanks for your comments but I don't think the problem is the disks. I've also tried Tektronix 8160 disks, Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive disks, Morrow disks and some others and I get the same results with all of them. The only disks that I've ever been able to archive are MS-DOS disks! Joe At 09:54 AM 4/4/01 -0600, you wrote: >I have a copy of Teledisk, but have not used it, so my comments might not be >on the mark. But, I have used other disk format copy programs and know that >they have trouble copying Kaypro disks unless the source disk was formated >on the target (non-Kaypro) computer. Apparently the Kaypro (and also Zorba) >format had some strange features. Might the unusual formatting be the source >of Joe's problems? > >Robert Feldman >Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:55 AM >To: Joe >Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Teledisk not working > > >At 10:10 04-04-2001 -0500, you wrote: > >>Bruce, >> >> I just tried Teledisk again with the SAME results. This time I used two >>known good Kaypro 2 disks. Teledisk copied them to files with no >>complaints. TDChck said that the files were OK. However each file was only >>281 bytes in size. When I tried to make disks from the files it said that >>the data had a CRC error. > > > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Apr 5 07:43:34 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Free PC handbook Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797C9@MAIL10> You know, I've signed-up for that a few times and *never* received my handbook. I get the advertising, but no book. If anyone actually does get a handbook, I'd like to know... Rich -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:36 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Free PC handbook I got this in the mail today, and I am just passing it on. I don't know what happens when the registration gets filled out without a VIP code, but its a nice free book if it works. http://www.advantechdirect.com My VIP code is NCE011IAG20011B42584 which looks like it is just my code, but if it is its not smart enough to already know who I was. I suggest not filling out the reg unless you have an interest in the products, industrial computers, rack mount, etc. If you are a legitamite user/buyer of this kind of stuff I can't see them griping about the offer being passed around. The free book is the neat PC Handbook, with all the facts on PC parts etc. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Apr 5 08:08:41 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Apr 5, 2001 02:06:35 am" Message-ID: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> > Noteworthy SCSI II adapter, NWSCSI01 > 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D > Xircom Netwave Adapter, CNW I believe www.computersurplusoutlet.com had some 3com dongles at $7.00 -- but I don't know if they're for that model. 3com may have them at a reasonable price... I bought new ones for an IBM PCMCIA and the price wasn't a rip-off. However, Motorolla wanted about $100 for a dongle for a 33.6 modem. Gimme a break folks. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Apr 5 08:15:15 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <200104050147.SAA20405@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 4, 2001 06:47:43 pm" Message-ID: <200104051315.f35DFFa06751@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> > > Well here it is...... > > > > I hooked the Vax up to my IBM Model 80 with Tera Term. Anybody have any > > other favorite terminal programs? Tera Term is probably the best free vt100 emulating telnet for PC. Anyone else have any recommendations...? > > I rather like TELIX, of course I prefer a real VT420. A great program. I wish the author had sent me back my vt100 and 220 manuals I shipped to Canada to help him with the emulation back in the 3.12 days. -Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Apr 5 08:17:51 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Apr 4, 2001 05:29:41 pm" Message-ID: <200104051317.f35DHpl06786@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> > Breath easy? It still doesn't change the fact that some lamefuck company > has commandeered a program that was once routinely used by any mere mortal > in the public sector and deemed it too dangerous for use by commoners. As long as there are Simtel CD's and my tape backups from 5 years ago the earlier Sydex one will still be out there. > > You gotta love the law enforcement mentality--there to protect us from > ourselves! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival And the idiots who believe they'll protect us from ourselves. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Thu Apr 5 07:03:19 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <3ACBD393.988B4964@mindless.com> References: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010405080319.01000fc0@obregon.multi.net.co> At 07:08 PM 4/4/01 -0700, you wrote: >Or are they simply so backlogged that they're just now >getting around to the evidence they seized in 1980 due >to the acute shortage of government round tuits? That's more like it; it probably took their bureocratic minds 20 years to find out how to read that "evidence" :-) . -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ahm at spies.com Thu Apr 5 08:54:18 2001 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11 BBS In-Reply-To: ; from R. D. Davis on Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 01:04:19AM -0400 References: <3ACBC228.23328A9F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <20010405095418.J9441@spies.com> R. D. Davis writes: > I set out to do something unusual with COBOL: write a BBS program. > The result was the creation of a BBS called the Gadzooks! BBS. Perhaps you should have been called it COMMUNICATION DIVISION. :) From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 5 08:53:53 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: <0bac01c0bd5c$9becc440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010405085014.0316f8b0@pc> At 07:11 PM 4/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >>> First fax machine was over 100 years ago with synchronized >>> pendulums. > >>How do you synchronize to a remote pendulum? > >I'm stepping into memories now, including college physics, >But, as I recall and understand, the pendulums would basically >oscillate at the same frequency since they were of the same length. >All that would be required is to send a synch pulse at the end >of a scan (rough analog to TV VIR) to align the next full scan. >The remainder body of the pendulum swing would be kept >in tune using only the ballistic physics of the thing. Pendulums could be sync'd by starting their swing at the same time by a pulse on a control line (which would release a catch that had held the pendulum at top-swing), and they could be re-sync'd and their swing regenerated with a well-timed pulse to an electromagnet at the apogee of the swing-path. No doubt a great deal of early computing and fax technology could borrow from clock technology. - John P.S. My youngest son is named Seth Thomas. :-) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Apr 5 09:16:22 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <200104051315.f35DFFa06751@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Apr 5, 1 09:15:15 am" Message-ID: <200104051416.GAA09100@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Tera Term is probably the best free vt100 emulating telnet for PC. > Anyone else have any recommendations...? NCSA Telnet for DOS isn't bad. (On the Mac, NCSA Telnet's practically standard -- virtually all of the modern Telnet and SSH clients have descended from it). I like Kermit otherwise, and Kermit runs on just about anything, even weird things like Luxors. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Marry me and I'll never look at another horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 5 08:59:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: References: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010405085649.031a16c0@pc> At 05:26 PM 4/4/01 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >This is undoubtedly complete bullshit. I didn't know that only law >enforcement personel are entitled to do data conversion between different >disk media formats. >The folks at Forensics International obviously have their heads crammed >way up their asses. This is called "marketing". I highly doubt they turn away potential customers with cash in hand. "We'll make an exception in this case." The computer forensics market, closely allied with the law enforcement market, seems to thrive on this sort of Sgt. Standanko attitude. Or at least people selling software to this market seem to think it helps. It's pervasive. Perhaps it helps local law enforcement feel better about parting with public funds. - John From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 5 09:20:33 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Recent Finds References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797C9@MAIL10> Message-ID: <003f01c0bddb$95bb4720$d562d6d1@DOMAIN> Digital Alphaserver 41166 w/64meg/tape/ethernet/non-booting disk... AT&T 3B2/400 AT&T 3B2/1000-80M AT&T Terminal for the 3B2 that's missing the keyboard (5) Issues of Interface Age from '80 (2) Apple IIfx Macs both with ethernet cards A never opened Tandy 100 boxed Portable Floppy Disk 2 and accessories TRS-80 Line Printer VIII Realistic CTR-80 Cassette Recorder (2) Apple II side-hanging System Savers The Alpha really made my day. I'd love to start playing with VMS but don't have the software for the wiped machine and have watched the fustration that DECUS has spead here lately... Someone please copy me an OS and I'm sure we can work a out a trade. Email me, let's talk. ;) Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 5 09:31:21 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <200104051315.f35DFFa06751@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <01Apr5.103920edt.119066@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Thursday, April 5, 2001, at 09:15 AM, Bill Pechter wrote: >> I rather like TELIX, of course I prefer a real VT420. > > A great program. I wish the author had sent me back my vt100 and 220 > manuals I shipped to Canada to help him with the emulation back in the > 3.12 days. I always liked Telix. In the 2.X timeframe, before he added the internal support for Zmodem with the 3.X release, I used to interface any new protocal that came out with it using a menu program I wrote in PowerBasic. I continued to run the 2.X version long after the release of 3.X because it was smaller and faster. Since I tended to run it on an XT class machine, that was an important consideration. The later versions worked great on the 286's I had access to elsewhere though. Jeff From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Thu Apr 5 10:07:34 2001 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: [Q] Xerox DayBreak 5.25" floppy binary format Message-ID: Hi. What is the binary format of the floppy disks that the Xerox DayBreak workstation uses? And, by the way, how about the format for the tapes (QIC?)? Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From ecloud at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 5 10:27:51 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Electromagnetically-driven pendulum (was Re: IBM ScanMaster) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010405085014.0316f8b0@pc>; from jfoust@threedee.com on Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 08:53:53AM -0500 References: <0bac01c0bd5c$9becc440$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <4.3.2.7.0.20010405085014.0316f8b0@pc> Message-ID: <20010405082751.O1303@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 08:53:53AM -0500, John Foust wrote: > Pendulums could be sync'd by starting their swing at the > same time by a pulse on a control line (which would release > a catch that had held the pendulum at top-swing), and they > could be re-sync'd and their swing regenerated with a well-timed > pulse to an electromagnet at the apogee of the swing-path. That sounds pretty cool. Maybe someday it'd be fun to build a slave grandfather clock, with the pendulum driven that way instead of by weights. Has anything like that been built commercially? I've got some old solenoid-driven slave clocks which I intend to drive using something fairly modern (probably a Dallas Semiconductor TINI) but these get one pulse per minute to advance the hands; I haven't seen such clocks with pendulums. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 5 10:49:44 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: PDP-11 BBS In-Reply-To: <20010405095418.J9441@spies.com> Message-ID: > R. D. Davis writes: > > I set out to do something unusual with COBOL: write a BBS program. > > The result was the creation of a BBS called the Gadzooks! BBS. > > Perhaps you should have been called it COMMUNICATION DIVISION. :) > Booooo! Hissssss! I just can't believe(sp) you did that. I don't even have a fireplace handy OR a beer glass to throw into it. *sigh* g. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 5 10:57:09 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: What a Scanmaster is! Message-ID: OK, here's the scoop on the original Scanmaster, not some lame-o PC-attached crud... 8815 SCANMASTER I - WITHDRAWN (NO LONGER AVAILABLE) PURPOSE o For capturing and transmitting noncoded documents to an 4300, S/370, 303X, or 308X system. o For capturing and transmitting noncoded documents directly to another Scanmaster I. o For printing noncoded documents. o For printing formatted text documents. The Scanmaster I is an SNA/SDLC device designed for system-attached operation and terminal-to-terminal operation. It attaches to 4300, S/370, 303X, and 308X processors over switched or nonswitched communication facilities at speeds up to 9600 bps. It will communicate directly with another remote Scanmaster I over a public switched telephone network or private switched or non-switched voice facilities at speeds up to 9600 bps. I got that from the IBM sales manual... I'd love to have one too.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Apr 5 11:05:02 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: Jeffrey l Kaneko's message of "Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:55:18 -0500" References: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <200104051605.f35G52e48247@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > "TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department > in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." > > Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was > developed to distribute software via BBS's (and other electonic > means). ObAOL: Me Too. Seriously, I thought the idea was to be able to copy a diskette to an image file that could be transferred via other means and then copied back to a diskette for use at the receiving end. The image file was mostly opaque to the user(s). I'm not sure how this helps the Treasury Department, unless they're using it to ship evidence-diskette images back to an FBI agent in the J. Edgar Hoover building who knows how to work the FBI's one copy of XenoCopy to go trawling through the reconstitued diskette for files. I have dim memories from Lasnerian times of netnews articles posted by and in response to people trying to exchange RX50 images via Teledisk; the observation made was that doing this required certain versions of Teledisk and/or certain types of floppy drives. And I think that all this angst is amusing in light of today's "Rhymes With Orange" comic strip. If you want to see the strip in your gooey webulator, wait two weeks, it'll be up at . Those of us who get it with our newspaper's comics page can have immediate gratification. Oh, all right, I'll spoil it. The punch line is "Except for computers, which no longer read floppy disks." Perhaps the author is one of those people who thinks "computer" means "Macintosh, late model". -Frank McConnell From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 5 11:51:07 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning (was Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <10104050843.ZM16562@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Will Jennings" Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010405094900.01f42b80@208.226.86.10> > > Reminds me of my > > mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly > > vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! > >Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. I didn't write this but have had the experience, .22 cal rim fire cartridge. Pretty much any good whack to the rim can make it go. However, rounds fired outside of a gun shoot the casing off as the mass has much more inertia and doesn't go very far. In my case the shop vac sorta 'chuffed' and I had to replace the filter which had ballooned to about twice its normal size. --Chuck From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Apr 5 11:53:50 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:51 2005 Subject: Electromagnetically-driven pendulum (was Re: IBM ScanMaster) In-Reply-To: <20010405082751.O1303@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Apr 05, 2001 08:27:51 AM Message-ID: <200104051653.JAA20032@eskimo.com> Shawn Rutledge wrote: > On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 08:53:53AM -0500, John Foust wrote: > > Pendulums could be sync'd by starting their swing at the > > same time by a pulse on a control line (which would release > > a catch that had held the pendulum at top-swing), and they > > could be re-sync'd and their swing regenerated with a well-timed > > pulse to an electromagnet at the apogee of the swing-path. > > That sounds pretty cool. Maybe someday it'd be fun to build a slave > grandfather clock, with the pendulum driven that way instead of by > weights. Has anything like that been built commercially? Siegmund Riefler, then R. J. Rudd, then (someone) Shortt, all designed precision clocks that worked something like that. One problem with building them yourself is that for best results the pendulum should be in a vacuum! -- Derek From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Apr 5 12:15:28 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning (was Re: Ever take a In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010405094900.01f42b80@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 05, 2001 09:51:07 AM Message-ID: <200104051715.LAA26076@calico.litterbox.com> Whoa. It's amazing that in our safety paranoid age these cartriges are still around. I suppose the fact that they're rifle ammunition normally conveys their inherant danger to people. Still, you're making me rethink my choice of plinking guns. Perhaps one of these ruger 9mm rifles... I have the mental image of my cat getting hold of a .22 rimfire. Ick. > > > > > Reminds me of my > > > mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly > > > vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! > > > >Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. > > I didn't write this but have had the experience, .22 cal rim fire > cartridge. Pretty much any good whack to the rim can make it go. However, > rounds fired outside of a gun shoot the casing off as the mass has much > more inertia and doesn't go very far. In my case the shop vac sorta > 'chuffed' and I had to replace the filter which had ballooned to about > twice its normal size. > > --Chuck > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Thu Apr 5 12:25:46 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Electromagnetically-driven pendulum (was Re: IBM ScanMaster) In-Reply-To: <20010405082751.O1303@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <000001c0bdf5$7463f940$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> >grandfather clock, with the pendulum driven that way instead of by >weights. Has anything like that been built commercially? I wish you hadn't mentioned that. Accessing memory... There was an article I read in the 70's Ciarcia? That took an existing GF clock and added crystal driven tiny solenoid hidden behind the bob that locked it to its "correct" frequency. Then I guess you gained any accuracy you Xtal could give you. John A. From owad at applefritter.com Thu Apr 5 12:40:19 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: Old Apple CPU's Message-ID: <20010405174019.31285@mail.lafayette.edu> Reply to the orignal sender, not me. That said, I could use a couple Mac monitor cables if anybody gets these. Tom ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Subject: Old Apple CPU's Date Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2001 10:01 AM From: Christman, Karla To: 'owad@applefritter.com' Do you know anyone in the Houston, Texas area that might be interested in old Apple computers, monitors, parts and cables. Karla Christman Coordinator of Media Services Brazosport Independent School District Voice (979) 265-6181 x 232 and 266-2451 Pager (979) 235-4675 ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Applefritter www.applefritter.com From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 5 12:26:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <10104050843.ZM16562@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Reminds me of my > > mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly > > vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! > > Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. I'm surprised it didn't result in a lawsuit :o Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 5 12:57:53 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010405075639.1aff68ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 5, 1 07:56:39 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1087 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010405/5743de7c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 5 13:37:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Electromagnetically-driven pendulum (was Re: IBM ScanMaster) In-Reply-To: <20010405082751.O1303@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Apr 5, 1 08:27:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2137 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010405/bb74376d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 5 13:12:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <20010404.195518.-613519.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "Jeffrey l Kaneko" at Apr 4, 1 07:55:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1142 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010405/e5689c19/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 5 13:28:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: [Q] Xerox DayBreak 5.25" floppy binary format In-Reply-To: from "Rodrigo Ventura" at Apr 5, 1 04:07:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 620 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010405/f0141e03/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 5 14:06:09 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige "Re: Teledisk not working" (Apr 5, 5:31) References: Message-ID: <10104052006.ZM17027@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 5, 5:31, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I read "Hacker Crackdown" > >years ago and can't remember if it describes those particular raids. > > I believe it does go into detail on Sundevil. The full book > is available in AmigaGuide format, though I no longer recall where I > saw it posted...it's been a couple of years since I saw that version. It does go into some detail. I bought the book when it came out. The electronic version can be found at http://www.eff.org/pub/Misc/Publications/Bruce_Sterling/Hacker_Crackdown/ which also has the extra "Three Years Later" part . -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 5 14:15:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Apr5.152234edt.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Thursday, April 5, 2001, at 01:26 PM, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: >>> Reminds me of my >>> mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly >>> vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! >> >> Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. > > I'm surprised it didn't result in a lawsuit :o Why, because the bullet manufacturer didn't forsee the possibility of someone being careless enough to actually try to suck one up? There's just so much that can be done to make things idiot proof before a little personal responsibility should kick in. Jeff From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Apr 5 14:19:25 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 5, 1 07:12:13 pm" Message-ID: <200104051919.LAA07808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In any case, teledisk is not that useful for extracting information from > a non-PC disk (which is presumably what the police, etc, would want to > do). I can really see the point of being able to make a copy of a disk > for some machine they don't have. Some program like anadisk, which lets > you read sector-by-sector, make disk images, and so on, would be a lot > more useful to them I would have thought. In my less ethical and more introspective moments I'd always wondered how I could make a disk good and unreadable by anyone but myself. I played around with unusual angular velocities and sub-normal GCR checksums on the 64 and came up with a double key: both on the drive and the system. A device like Teledisk, even if it could read GCR, probably wouldn't work for duplicating such formats. The problem is that using something like angular velcotiy would be keyed to a particular drive's characteristics and that would be the first thing they'd confiscate. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Emulate your heroes, but not if they're dead. ------------------------------ From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Apr 5 14:31:34 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: CDC disk R/W heads avaliable..... Message-ID: <004801c0be07$069d6240$95abfea9@marianca> Folks, A recently acquired ASR33 came with an assorted sets of spares. Part of the spares were some 196x vintage Control Data disks R/W heads which are of limited interest to me.. They are available to whoever might need them for the cost of shipping from Zurich, Europe ) Jos Dreesen From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Thu Apr 5 14:24:02 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape Message-ID: <004201c0be05$f9817a20$95abfea9@marianca> -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:36 AM Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape >Due to my computing interests becoming very much centered in the IBM >world, and also due to 2 tons of Big Blue stuff coming shortly, I have >decided to sell off a PDP-8/i. I promised the original seller that I >would not Ebay the thing, so I am keeping it to only a few lists. Never mind the 8/i....What's the thing to the left of it ? Jos Dreesen From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Apr 5 15:10:06 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: HP64000 info... In-Reply-To: <200104051919.LAA07808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010405161006.0174b9e0@mail.30below.com> Well, assuming (of course) that there might be some new folks out here on this list... Does anyone have anything (disks, info, manuals, proggies, peripherals, I mean anything) for a Hewlett Packard 64000 system? I purchased one of these late last summer (it has a QIC tape drive & an Eprom burner, but methinks the burner only supports 2708's & 2716's) and it passes diagnostics, but I think they were hooked up in network mode & it was netbooted... so I really can't do much of anything with it right now... Here's a list of the boards I have in it, and other specifics: Hp 64100A mainframe sn# 2033a01075 2 rs232c ports (to modem/to peripheral) current loop 4 bnc ports 300 w. Power supply internal: slot a: (red) i/o slot b: (white) dspl ctrl slot c: (blue) cpu slot 0: 64940a (tape) slot 1: 64501a (prom) slot 2: (empty) slot 3: (empty) slot 4: (empty) slot 5: (empty) slot 6: 64153a (mem.16k) slot 7: 64151a (mem.con) slot 8: 64300a (int.anl) (internal analysis) slot 9: 64211a (em 6800) The board in slot 9 is a Motorola 6800 emulator, so you can crossassemble 6800 ML proggies & burn them to an eprom... We used these in concert with the Heathkit 6800-based trainers (one of which I'm still looking for...) back in college. Webpages, FAQ's, any info at all about this critter would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 5 15:25:57 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <003f01c0bddb$95bb4720$d562d6d1@DOMAIN> from "Mike" at Apr 05, 2001 10:20:33 AM Message-ID: <200104052025.NAA07791@shell1.aracnet.com> > Digital Alphaserver 41166 w/64meg/tape/ethernet/non-booting disk... A what model AlphaServer? There isn't such a beast. Me thinks I'm jealous though! > The Alpha really made my day. I'd love to start playing with VMS but don't > have the software for the wiped machine and have watched the fustration that > DECUS has spead here lately... Someone please copy me an OS and I'm sure we > can work a out a trade. Email me, let's talk. ;) Actaully all you should need to do is just order the CD from Montagar for $20. You'll really need more RAM though, unless you find a version of OpenVMS older than V7.2. I've found that 112MB is the minimum for acceptable performance when running DECwindows, or 96MB without DECwindows installed. Zane From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 5 15:32:08 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! References: <200104050147.SAA20405@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3ACCD648.D5E72C0E@internet1.net> Zane, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I rather like TELIX, of course I prefer a real VT420. I think I have an older DOS version of Telix. Maybe, I'll give it a try. > > What should I be able to see from the below info? > > Well, with 44MB RAM on a VAX, you've a nice chunk of RAM. The big thing I > notice is that it looks like you probably need to go in and clean up old log > files a "PURGE *.LOG" right after logging in might help. It looks like you > probably also need to take a look at the OpenVMS FAQ and learn how to bypass > the password on the SYSTEM account so you can gain access to your system. > > All in all it looks like you've got yourself a pretty nice VAX. It's a > great system for running VMS on. > > One question, if you don't kill it while it's coming up like you apparently > did, will it boot all the way up to the login prompt? No, I don't hink so. It keeps on giving me those errors every 2 minutes. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Apr 5 15:57:09 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Synchronized oscillation (was re: IBM ScanMaster) Message-ID: I just ran across a reference to synchronized pendula in the latest "Wired" magazine (March 2001, p. 58). I did a search for the work the article mentions, which lead to the following site: http://www.gtalumni.org/news/magazine/spr97/rhythms.html. The following is from this site: "The phenomenon was described in 1665 by the Dutch physicist Christiaan Huygens, who placed two pendulum clocks side by side on a wall. Within a short time, the pendulums were swinging in perfect synchrony. He altered the movement of one pendulum, but within a half hour the swinging weights had regained synchrony. When one of the clocks was moved to another wall, they gradually fell out of step." Robert A. Feldman Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 5 16:07:05 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <10104050843.ZM16562@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 4, 15:39, Will Jennings wrote: > > Errm, since I'm assuming you're talking guns here, I'd imagine the vacuum > > stands a good chance of not being operable afterwards, too! > > Apparently it was OK. Actually, they were CCI small pistol primers which > are a little more sensitive than Winchester ones, but I used a little > poetic license because I thought more people would realise what I meant. > > >From what my friend Mick tells me, some of them went off as they hit the > metal innards of the vacuum (rather than the brushes). I believe it was a > pretty noisy operation, though! > > Richard mentioned that Winchester primers come in a flat plastic block; CCI > ones come in a small subdivided tray, about half the size of the Winchester > one. They're not individually compartmentalised like the Winchester ones > and tend to fall out rather easily. Mick had already dropped most of them > on the floor once, and picked them all up by hand. When he did it a second > time he just decided that the vacuum cleaner provided an easier solution. > For those who've not seen them, a tray of primers is about 2" square, and > holds 100 small round objects, 0.17" in diameter. > > > Reminds me of my > > mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly > > vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! > > Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. Probably simply a fluke, or one of the 'legacy' types where the air and sweepings actually went through the centrifugal blower. (Am I dating myself?) - don > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 5 16:45:48 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <200104051605.f35G52e48247@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > "TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department > in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." > > Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was > developed to distribute software via BBS's (and other electonic > means). To the best of my knowledge, it was developed as a commercial product. There were a number of major computer companies - IBM included - who used it for distributing reference disks and such. In their case, instead of the downloader having a copy of TeleDisk, he also d/l'd a copy of a companion program TeleGet which would write the TeleDisk image to disk. TeleGet differed from TeleDisk in that it had no read and save capability and, perhaps more importantly, it was keyed to the originator's copy of TeleDisk and would convert files from no other source. However, IBM found that their users were a little on the incompetent side and frequently could not cope with all this difficult processing. They also developed internally the program LOADDSKF.EXE which had the same customer problems. Sydex then developed a tailored version of CopyQM for them that created self-extracting and writing image files which is still in current use. You will find the Sydex name in such IBM downloads. - don From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 5 15:40:59 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <01Apr5.152234edt.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > On Thursday, April 5, 2001, at 01:26 PM, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >>> Reminds me of my > >>> mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly > >>> vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! > >> > >> Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. > > > > I'm surprised it didn't result in a lawsuit :o > > Why, because the bullet manufacturer didn't forsee the possibility > of someone being careless enough to actually try to suck one up? > There's just so much that can be done to make things idiot proof before > a little personal responsibility should kick in. One would think so ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ewy at southwind.net Thu Apr 5 17:06:08 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: CDP-1802 Bonanza Message-ID: <3ACCEC50.8B319D0A@southwind.net> Here's the list of people who've contacted me so far requesting CDP-1802s from my stash (in order received): Dave McGuire Alex Knight Pete Turnbull Ethan Dicks Mike Haas for a total of 24 parts. I hope I haven't missed anybody. I think I'll keep about 5 of the original 62. So there would be about 33 still unspoken for. I couldn't stand it anymore yesterday afternoon, and went to my folks' place to dig them out and ended up hauling home a ton of old computer junk that I already don't have room for in my basement. But my dad, being as much of a pack rat as I am, was glad to have more space for his antique engines. It turns out that I didn't "RC", and they're in the plastic package instead of ceramic. Most of them are CDP-1802BCE, but some are CDP-1802CE. I'm sure there's some joke in there about how old these things are, but I'll leave the actual punch line as an exercise for the reader. I rediscovered an RCA databook that I found some time after the original haul, and have almost forgotten about already, that has info on the whole CDP-18XX range, plus some development systems, including the COSMAC Microboard Computer Systems. I haven't looked too closely, but from a cursory glance, it would appear that it has complete schematics for all kinds of boards for this system, from the CPU board to RAM, ROM, battery-backed RAM, UART, display, D/A, and so on. It truly inspires awe. Anyway, the CDP-1802CE is listed, but the BCE isn't. The 1802CE is for temperatures ranging from -40 - +85 deg. C. The 'C' suffix (infix?) has a "recommended voltage range" of 4-6.5 volts. The 1802 ranges from 4-10.5 volts. The 'E' suffix specifies the plastic case, while 'D' would be ceramic. But I can't tell from the documentation I have what the 'B' infix would do to it. Tonight I'll sort them into BCE and CE and post exactly how many of each I have. -- Joel Ewy butcherspam_ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 08:26:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: <0bec01c0bd6a$7b117aa0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <860.495T500T8663997optimus@canit.se> John Allain skrev: >> I'd be interested in seeing the article. I've repaired many fax >> machines and was unaware that they have been around for this long! >OK, this one's a 1907 prototype But! it's for continuous tone images. >The process is called "Belin Telephotography" and it resembles the >machine in "Bullitt" mentioned earlier, but as a proto. But that's telephoto, not telefacsimile. I don't know what separates the technologies, but telephoto was/is mainly a newspaper and news bureau application. As for when the fax was first introduced, any takers? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Auf Sparc-Maschinen ist Linux weit weniger gut. Auf Maschinen mit sun4 Architektur ist NetBSD etwa 30% schneller. Wer auf so einer Maschine Linux faehrt tut es aus ideologischen Gruenden oder kennt nichts anderes." Aus: de.comp.os.unix.misc, "Was ist schneller?" From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 08:42:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: HP 3388 Integrator? In-Reply-To: <200104050515.f355F1k05870@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <520.495T1050T8824211optimus@canit.se> Eric Dittman skrev: >> It is for a Gas or liquid Chromatrograph. It communicates to the GC via >> HPIL. ( Serial 2 wire loop) >> Most have been replaced with PC based data systems. >I seem to recall HP Integrators also being used with >Fairchild (later Schlumberger) ATE systems. Later >replaced by VAXen and Fastnet (has anyone else used >Fastnet?). No, what is it? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Jag ?r 35 ?r och citerar planetens och v?rldshistoriens b?sta anime hur mycket jag vill, bl?jbarn." ?ke Rosenius From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 5 15:55:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville In-Reply-To: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> References: from Mike Ford at "Apr 5, 2001 02:06:35 am" Message-ID: >> Noteworthy SCSI II adapter, NWSCSI01 >> 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D >> Xircom Netwave Adapter, CNW > >I believe www.computersurplusoutlet.com had some 3com dongles >at $7.00 -- but I don't know if they're for that model. 3Com I don't sweat, fairly common, I "may" even have one, and one style of dongle fits a bunch of 3Com cards. I mention it mostly on the chance that some member of the list is the grand dragon of dongle collecting, sitting on a huge hoard of dongles. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 5 16:09:03 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: AT&T WGS 6386? In-Reply-To: <003f01c0bddb$95bb4720$d562d6d1@DOMAIN> References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797C9@MAIL10> Message-ID: Any interest in a AT&T WGS 6386? I bought two of them at a scrap yard, just CPU, and recently one more came in with monitor and keyboard. They are going to be scrapped, as I really don't know what to do with them. Unfortunately, no docs or disks of any kind. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 5 17:11:02 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <200104051919.LAA07808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Tony Duell at "Apr 5, 1 07:12:13 pm" Message-ID: >In my less ethical and more introspective moments I'd always wondered how I >could make a disk good and unreadable by anyone but myself. I played around >with unusual angular velocities and sub-normal GCR checksums on the 64 and First use PGP, or if source is available, change some aspect and use your own unique flavor of PGP. True paranoia, burn the data to CDR, and put the drive with CDR in a tub inside a strong metal box with a gallon or so bottle of solvent (maybe acetone) rigged to dump into the tub if tampered with. From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 5 17:37:47 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Recent Finds References: <200104052025.NAA07791@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0be21$0c66dd40$58db3fd0@DOMAIN> From: > > Digital Alphaserver 41166 w/64meg/tape/ethernet/non-booting disk... > > A what model AlphaServer? There isn't such a beast. Me thinks I'm jealous > though! > woops... That's an AlphaServer 400 4/166 (with scsi that I forgot to mention) > > The Alpha really made my day. I'd love to start playing with VMS but don't > > have the software for the wiped machine and have watched the fustration that > > DECUS has spead here lately... Someone please copy me an OS and I'm sure we > > can work a out a trade. Email me, let's talk. ;) > > Actaully all you should need to do is just order the CD from Montagar for > $20. I don't need a decus membership to do that? > You'll really need more RAM though, unless you find a version of OpenVMS > older than V7.2. I've found that 112MB is the minimum for acceptable > performance when running DECwindows, or 96MB without DECwindows installed. Thanks! I'll go about locating some more Ram ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 5 17:55:03 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster In-Reply-To: <860.495T500T8663997optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010405224724.WGFC28856.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> In <860.495T500T8663997optimus@canit.se>, on 04/05/01 at 06:55 PM, "Iggy Drougge" said: >As for when the fax was first introduced, any takers? I don't know exactly when, but I do know that we and the Brits were exchanging faxes during the Second World War. That one came as a surprise to me. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From azog at azog.org Thu Apr 5 17:55:45 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: IBM ScanMaster References: <860.495T500T8663997optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <00ab01c0be23$8ca17c20$0a00a8c0@azog> > > But that's telephoto, not telefacsimile. I don't know what separates the > technologies, but telephoto was/is mainly a newspaper and news bureau > application. As for when the fax was first introduced, any takers? > Bell Labs has a history web page that has 1925 as the first public demonstration of a fax. http://www.bell-labs.com/history/75/timeline.html From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Apr 5 17:57:13 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: <004201c0be05$f9817a20$95abfea9@marianca> Message-ID: > Never mind the 8/i....What's the thing to the left of it ? The large green thing is the main box from a 1943 Navy SG-1b radar set. Specifically, it seems to be the one of the surface search radars from Battleship California. The large blue thing is an Interdata/Perkin-Elmer 7/32 mini, but that is obvious from the tag. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 5 17:59:57 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning (was Re: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010405094900.01f42b80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20010405225636.WODY28856.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I've never had a cartridge fire outside of a firearm, but I've seen LOTS of ammo 'cook off' in enemy vehicles during Desert Storm. Plain kinetic type ammo (only charge is propellant not HE) is not nearly as dangerous going off outside of a gun as it is inside one. In a gun, the chamber walls keep the brass together. Outside of a gun, the brass just bursts and the charge does not impart much velocity to the round or the case. HEAT (High Explosive AntiTank) and artillery rounds are deadly in a fire. On fire, they will eventually explode as designed and make a big mess of whatever they are near. Same for Mines, Antitank rockets, antiair rockets, and anything with an explosive charge. In <5.0.0.25.2.20010405094900.01f42b80@208.226.86.10>, on 04/05/01 at 06:59 PM, Chuck McManis said: >> > Reminds me of my >> > mom's friend's mother, who quit vacuuming forever after she mistakenly >> > vacuumed up a bullet.. scratch one vacuum cleaner! >> >>Ow! I'm surprised the round went off, though. >I didn't write this but have had the experience, .22 cal rim fire >cartridge. Pretty much any good whack to the rim can make it go. However, > rounds fired outside of a gun shoot the casing off as the mass has much >more inertia and doesn't go very far. In my case the shop vac sorta >'chuffed' and I had to replace the filter which had ballooned to about >twice its normal size. >--Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 5 18:29:45 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: HP 3388 Integrator? In-Reply-To: <520.495T1050T8824211optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 05, 2001 02:42:21 PM Message-ID: <200104052329.f35NTjC10718@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I seem to recall HP Integrators also being used with > >Fairchild (later Schlumberger) ATE systems. Later > >replaced by VAXen and Fastnet (has anyone else used > >Fastnet?). > > No, what is it? Going from memory, so there could be minor errors: Fastnet was a replacement for serial-based transfers. The VAX used a DR11-W to communicate with an Ungermann- Bass controller. The UB was a big box with several Z80- based boards. The UB ran CP/M loaded from 8" floppies over HPIB. The Z80 boards were all the same. Each board had a daughter board with different types of interfaces. The master board had a serial port, parallel port, and HPIB interface. The board that communicated with the DR11-W had four parallel ports. There were also boards with six serial ports and a board with an Ethernet port. Each Z80 board was booted from the master board with a customized CP/M system. The remote UB boxes had the same board types as in the master UB box. The remote UB boxes downloaded their software over Ethernet. The ATE systems connected to the remote UB box through one of the Z80 boards with a parallel daughterboard. Each remote box could connect up to three testers (requiring three separate Z80 boards with parallel daughterboards). The remote boxes could also have one of the Z80 boards with a serial daughterboard to connect to the serial terminal stations on the testers, and software allowed access from terminals on the VAX. The board in the tester that connected to the remote UB box looked like a serial board to the tester (and was really just a serial board without the UART, so the data lines went direct to the remote UB; that's where the speed increase came from). The UB network used an old version of the XNS protocol. We had Sentry 20 and 21 testers. The processor in the testers had a ~900KHz clock. The operating system was M3 and the test programs were written in FACTOR. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 5 18:30:46 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning (was Re: Ever take a In-Reply-To: <200104051715.LAA26076@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Jim Strickland wrote: > I have the mental image of my cat getting hold of a .22 rimfire. Ick. Stand and deliver! Your tuna fush or your life! Yes indeed, it's not a pretty thought. We have enough guns about without worrying about armed cats. From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 18:28:51 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104052025.NAA07791@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <736.496T2550T286575optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> The Alpha really made my day. I'd love to start playing with VMS but don't >> have the software for the wiped machine and have watched the fustration >> that DECUS has spead here lately... Someone please copy me an OS and I'm >> sure we can work a out a trade. Email me, let's talk. ;) >You'll really need more RAM though, unless you find a version of OpenVMS >older than V7.2. I've found that 112MB is the minimum for acceptable >performance when running DECwindows, or 96MB without DECwindows installed. Aaargh! Is that really true? Then there is no chance of fitting it onto a MicroVAX II!? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 18:30:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville In-Reply-To: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <800.496T1100T304357optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> Noteworthy SCSI II adapter, NWSCSI01 >> 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D >> Xircom Netwave Adapter, CNW >I believe www.computersurplusoutlet.com had some 3com dongles >at $7.00 -- but I don't know if they're for that model. I saw a 3Com PCMCIA card using a CNet dongle in an underground computer shop. Apparently they aren't all that picky about the transceivers. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone cares about. Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price and great color graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or Macintoshes. So, to remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent three times as much on a Macintosh and got only half the graphics capability of an Amiga." From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 18:33:02 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <200104051416.GAA09100@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <784.496T100T333293optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> Tera Term is probably the best free vt100 emulating telnet for PC. >> Anyone else have any recommendations...? >NCSA Telnet for DOS isn't bad. (On the Mac, NCSA Telnet's practically >standard >-- virtually all of the modern Telnet and SSH clients have descended from >it). I like Kermit otherwise, and Kermit runs on just about anything, even >weird things like Luxors. I really prefer a telnet client with ZModem support. On Win#? systems, I use CRT (Combined Rlogin and Telnet), on AmigaOS AmTelnet. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have support for the PMAGC-B's on pmax right? That is a PixelVision based card right? I see Bt 463, that chip looks bigger than the 21164! Just looking at it makes me want to write an Xserver! Chris Tribo, NetBSD/pmax From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 18:47:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Fwd: Old Apple CPU's In-Reply-To: <20010405174019.31285@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <441.496T500T474369optimus@canit.se> Tom Owad skrev: >That said, I could use a couple Mac monitor cables if anybody gets these. You mean those overtly thick AUI cables? =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Amiga IFF (8SVX): This is the dominant [sound] format on the Commodore Amiga platform. It can specify an arbitray sampling rate but ony supports mono 8-bit sounds. It also supports a 2-to-1 lossy compression format which uses a unique Fibonacci-delta compression algorithm. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 5 18:44:55 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <000e01c0be21$0c66dd40$58db3fd0@DOMAIN> from "Mike" at Apr 05, 2001 06:37:47 PM Message-ID: <200104052344.QAA14189@shell1.aracnet.com> > woops... That's an AlphaServer 400 4/166 (with scsi that I forgot to > mention) Ah, OK, I'm not to jealous then, I thought it might be a 4000. If that's the one I think it is, it looks like an interesting box. What I really want is a AlphaServer 1000A or 1200. > > Actaully all you should need to do is just order the CD from Montagar for > > $20. > > I don't need a decus membership to do that? Good question, I guess you do. Sounds like you need to hound Encompass and get a membership. > Thanks! I'll go about locating some more Ram The downside being I'm not sure what a 400 uses for RAM. I suspect it might be 72-pin True Parity SIMMs, hopefully that's the case, since while they're expensive they're affordable compared to some. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 5 19:04:23 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <736.496T2550T286575optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 06, 2001 12:28:51 AM Message-ID: <200104060004.RAA15346@shell1.aracnet.com> > >You'll really need more RAM though, unless you find a version of OpenVMS > >older than V7.2. I've found that 112MB is the minimum for acceptable > >performance when running DECwindows, or 96MB without DECwindows installed. > > Aaargh! Is that really true? Then there is no chance of fitting it onto a > MicroVAX II!? Sure there is, the *VAX* version of OpenVMS will run quite nicely on a MicroVAX II. A bit slow, but it will run. I was talking about the *Alpha* version of OpenVMS. I thought that would be obvious. BTW, read the OpenVMS SPD, you'll find a MicroVAX II with 16MB is about the minimum supported by OpenVMS V7.2. You'll probably want to leave DECwindows off the MicroVAX II unless you've actually got a video card and monitor for it. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 5 19:07:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <3ACCD648.D5E72C0E@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 05, 2001 03:32:08 PM Message-ID: <200104060007.RAA15506@shell1.aracnet.com> > I think I have an older DOS version of Telix. Maybe, I'll give it a > try. I just realized something. I've never tested the keypad emulation, so I'm not to sure how well it handles that. BTW, if you've got a UNIX box, I've got a shell script that I got from someone that turns an Xterm window into a pretty good VT100. ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/vms/vt100.sh > > One question, if you don't kill it while it's coming up like you apparently > > did, will it boot all the way up to the login prompt? > > No, I don't hink so. It keeps on giving me those errors every 2 > minutes. Might simply be a case of hitting return and logging in. Zane From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 5 19:28:02 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! References: Message-ID: <3ACD0D92.22B74824@internet1.net> Paul Thompson wrote: > > You should be able to do a BOOT/R5:00000001 DIA0: and at the SYSBOOT> > prompt do a SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" Took for ever for me to get that to work. > SYSBOOT> CONTINUE to get to a minimum > boot prompt to delete stuff. If it asks for a password and you don't know > it you might have to gp back to SYSBOOT> and do the SET UAFALTERNATE 1 or > "TRUE" or whatever it says in the VMS FAQ (going from memory here) It never got to a password. It complains that a file is bad. Here is a partial screen capture: SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" SYSBOOT> CONTINUE %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SYSDUMP.DMP on System Disk successfully mapped OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V6.2 Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0 %DECnet-I-LOADED, network base image loaded, version = 05.08.00 %SYSINIT, primary PAGEFILE.SYS not found; system initialization continuing Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT Error in file name > > (if you do need to crack the SYSTEM password, unlike what is says in the > VMS FAQ I found that you don't need to enter SYSTEM as the password you > can enter whatever you want or blank at the password prompt and then hit > CTRL Z a few times once you've passed the password prompt and you will > get in once that UAFALTERNATE is changed) I'll look up the VMS faq now. I probably should look through it :-) > > Once in to $ you can do a > SET DEF DIA0:[000000] > PURGE/LOG [...]*.log,[...]*.old > to get rid of old file versions that might be left lying around taking up > space > DIRECT/SEL=SIZ=MIN=1000 [...] > to look for large files or whatever Well, hopefully I'll get this far eventually! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From jlewczyk at speakeasy.net Thu Apr 5 19:36:25 2001 From: jlewczyk at speakeasy.net (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building References: <200104051400.JAA09988@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <002901c0be31$9d166760$6401a8c0@John> Its gonna become a computer museum! Albuquerque newspaper article: http://www.abqjournal.com/news/294821news04-04-01.htm >From the article... A founder of software colossus Microsoft has purchased the Albuquerque building where the company had its first office, parties to the transaction said Tuesday. A company controlled by Paul G. Allen in October purchased the 26,000-square-foot building at the intersection of California and Linn NE, said Peggy Daskalos, whose company sold the building. Allen teamed up with Bill Gates in 1975 to start what became Microsoft. *snip* According to a brief item in the current issue of Forbes magazine, the building's sellers say Allen's company plans to turn the building into a computer museum. *snip* Slashdot discussion: http://slashdot.org/articles/01/04/05/194214.shtml - John Lewczyk - jlewczyk@speakeasy.net From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 5 19:41:54 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape References: Message-ID: <3ACD10D2.D2EBFB0@internet1.net> Cool, well what are you waiting for... hook her on up!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA William Donzelli wrote: > The large green thing is the main box from a 1943 Navy SG-1b radar set. > Specifically, it seems to be the one of the surface search radars from > Battleship California. From gene at ehrich.com Thu Apr 5 19:42:53 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: AT&T WGS 6386? In-Reply-To: References: <003f01c0bddb$95bb4720$d562d6d1@DOMAIN> <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797C9@MAIL10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010405204129.00add2b0@popmail.voicenet.com> At 02:09 PM 4/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >Any interest in a AT&T WGS 6386? > >I bought two of them at a scrap yard, just CPU, and recently one more came >in with monitor and keyboard. They are going to be scrapped, as I really >don't know what to do with them. Unfortunately, no docs or disks of any >kind. I have the following on consignment on my web site if interested: AT&T 6386SX/EL WGS Customer Diagnostics Version 1.10 on 3-1/2 $ 5 From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 5 20:10:46 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building References: <200104051400.JAA09988@opal.tseinc.com> <002901c0be31$9d166760$6401a8c0@John> Message-ID: <005101c0be36$6a1beba0$e4721fd1@default> Does this mean more deep pocket competition for the view older jewels still left out there ? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lewczyk" To: Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:36 PM Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building > Its gonna become a computer museum! > > Albuquerque newspaper article: > http://www.abqjournal.com/news/294821news04-04-01.htm > > >From the article... > > A founder of software colossus Microsoft has purchased the Albuquerque > building where the company had its first office, parties to the transaction > said Tuesday. > A company controlled by Paul G. Allen in October purchased the > 26,000-square-foot building at the intersection of California and Linn NE, > said Peggy Daskalos, whose company sold the building. Allen teamed up with > Bill Gates in 1975 to start what became Microsoft. > > *snip* > > According to a brief item in the current issue of Forbes magazine, the > building's sellers say Allen's company plans to turn the building into a > computer museum. > > *snip* > > Slashdot discussion: > http://slashdot.org/articles/01/04/05/194214.shtml > > > - John Lewczyk > - jlewczyk@speakeasy.net > > > From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 5 20:25:29 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building References: <200104051400.JAA09988@opal.tseinc.com> <002901c0be31$9d166760$6401a8c0@John> Message-ID: <3ACD1B09.FDB9CB02@internet1.net> I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA John Lewczyk wrote: > > Its gonna become a computer museum! From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 5 21:01:43 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:52 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <3ACD0D92.22B74824@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 05, 2001 07:28:02 PM Message-ID: <200104060201.f3621hK11175@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > You should be able to do a BOOT/R5:00000001 DIA0: and at the SYSBOOT> > > prompt do a SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" > > Took for ever for me to get that to work. > > > SYSBOOT> CONTINUE to get to a minimum > > boot prompt to delete stuff. If it asks for a password and you don't know > > it you might have to gp back to SYSBOOT> and do the SET UAFALTERNATE 1 or > > "TRUE" or whatever it says in the VMS FAQ (going from memory here) > > It never got to a password. It complains that a file is bad. Here is a > partial screen capture: > > SYSBOOT> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN" > > SYSBOOT> CONTINUE > > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT Mapping the SYSDUMP.DMP on the System Disk > %SYSBOOT-I-SYSBOOT SYSDUMP.DMP on System Disk successfully mapped > OpenVMS (TM) VAX Version V6.2 Major version id = 1 Minor version > id = 0 > %DECnet-I-LOADED, network base image loaded, version = 05.08.00 > > %SYSINIT, primary PAGEFILE.SYS not found; system initialization > continuing > Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT > Error in file name It sounds like someone did a "SET/STARTUP SYS$INPUT". >From SYSBOOT> try "SET/STARTUP OPA0:" When you get the DCL prompt, first type "SET NOON" to avoid getting kicked out if you make a typo, then type "SPAWN". At the prompt type "@SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP" to continue the rest of the system startup. After the startup is complete set default to SYS$SYSTEM and then do an "MCR AUTHORIZE". Change the system password to whatever you want, and use the /NOPWDE flag so you don't have to change it the first time you log in. When you are done, type "EXIT". The system is now done booting. Of course, if the normal startup isn't working, after the "SPAWN" go ahead and change the password, clean up any old .LOG files if you need to free up space, and fix any configuration files. You'll also need to to go into SYSGEN and type "SET/STARTUP SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM" to return the startup to normal. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 5 21:07:19 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville References: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <0c1801c0be3e$50124bc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D > 3com may have them at a reasonable price... Completely reasonable. I just had a pleasant buying experience getting cables for some 3com PCM 10base here (reassemble to 1-line URL): http://www.3com.com/products/html/prodlist.html?family=373&cat=162&pathtype= purchase&tab=cat&selcat=Cabling%20Products Price: $6/ea. (Useful to me because a previous employer had a habit of tossing the whole card for just a broken dongle. <$g$>) John A. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Apr 5 21:16:01 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <736.496T2550T286575optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 6, 2001 00:28:51 am" Message-ID: <200104060216.f362G2D08141@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> > healyzh skrev: > > >> The Alpha really made my day. I'd love to start playing with VMS but don't > >> have the software for the wiped machine and have watched the fustration > >> that DECUS has spead here lately... Someone please copy me an OS and I'm > >> sure we can work a out a trade. Email me, let's talk. ;) > > >You'll really need more RAM though, unless you find a version of OpenVMS > >older than V7.2. I've found that 112MB is the minimum for acceptable > >performance when running DECwindows, or 96MB without DECwindows installed. > > Aaargh! Is that really true? Then there is no chance of fitting it onto a > MicroVAX II!? Nah, it's just that RISC boxes usually need more memory than CISC boxes. -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 5 21:36:33 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video Message-ID: <3ACCF371.28734.54B833D@localhost> In fooling with my Mac PM7100av and AudioVision monitor I noticed that the Apple ADB connector and the standard s-video connector are the same. Any data on this ? And does it mean that a cheap s-video cable could be used in place of relatively expensive(Apple like IBM ain't cheap) ADB cables ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 5 21:36:33 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Charging Laptop (and other)batteries Message-ID: <3ACCF371.24666.54B8365@localhost> This is likely elementary but many times I run across the encased laptop and other function(eg cordless drills) batteries. Of course each has it's own proprietory charger which have long since disappeared and are costly to replace as well as being device and company specific . Many of them have a 3rd terminal. What was it's purpose. Can you recharge these batteries simply by rigging up an interface using appropriate voltages and polarity ? How would you deal with the 3rd terminal ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 5 19:46:11 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working In-Reply-To: <3ACBD393.988B4964@mindless.com> Message-ID: <20010406023642.EQYC28856.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I'd like to see them take my gear. It would hurt like hell, but I'd get a gas from seeing an FBI long van - loaded, pulling a loaded 16 foot U-Haul trailer out of here with axels groaning, digging grooves in the lawn from the sheer weight. Finally, to see em' work for a living! Some of you have massive collections of rack mount gear - or worse. That would be an interesting moving job. Raid and move. Not chat up a few friends, buy beer, on alternate weekends causually taking things apart and moving them..... The agency might have to make multiple trips in your cases. One day when I was fourteen I came home from school to find the padlock cut on the main hatch of our home (we lived on a Gulfstar 44' sailboat for three years), and some paperwork. The warrant was for all gear I had. I was never contacted and everything was returned freight a few weeks later. They got: An Atari 1200xl MPP1000E modem - Neat. These were 300baud modems that could be software adjusted on the fly in increments of 1 baud. Helpful to communicate with other modems (standards and manufacturing were loose) and also allowed you to bump the baud to infinity if you wanted to. Practically, 450 was the max reliable baudrate for local calls. Atari 1050 disk drive with US Doubler Indus GT disk drive Atari 1010 tape drive (cassette) Brother EP22 thermal typewriter/serial printer All media; disks, tapes, handwritten notes, documentation, cables, power supplies, magazines, hardcopy... you name the media, they took it. That was my system in 1983 --- You've come a long way baby. I never did get the docs or mags back. Almost all the other media was returned with the hardware. Missing a few disks, but I had all the ones I thought were incriminating. They were unformatted disks. I wrote a program in ML that wrote/read from them. I kept the Basic program and the ML routines in my head and entered them manually when I wanted access. The data was RLE encripted without passwords etc. They kept my books and a few disks. I think they did this to educate themselves. When I was 17, I was got again. This time they got me good. Charges of interstate wire fraud among others. My way out was do what I had been doing for two more days. This time with an fbi tech weenie looking over my shoulder and asking questions. They did charge me, but held those charges from prosecution for a given period of time. If I'd gotten a ticket for a suspended license they would re-activate them. That time has long passed thank goodness. Your's truely, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Apr 5 21:49:31 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <3ACD0D92.22B74824@internet1.net> Message-ID: Does it just hang or reboot here, or does control Z or enter cause any changes? On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT > Error in file name > -- From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Apr 5 21:52:38 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This jogs another memory. I think there might be something in SYSBOOT you have to change to get SYS$INPUT to be OPA0: (the operator console) so you get a DCL prompt. Definitely one for VMS FAQ. On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Paul Thompson wrote: > Does it just hang or reboot here, or does control Z or enter cause any > changes? > > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT > > Error in file name > > > > > -- From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Apr 5 22:28:10 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <3ACCF371.28734.54B833D@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010405202726.02c68bc0@mail.zipcon.net> DING DING DING DING DING give the gentleman a cigar :) I've used SVideo cables in a pinch, as long as they aren't monster long they seem to work fine. At 10:36 PM 4/5/01 -0400, you wrote: > In fooling with my Mac PM7100av and AudioVision monitor I noticed that >the Apple ADB connector and the standard s-video connector are the same. > Any data on this ? And does it mean that a cheap s-video cable could be >used in place of relatively expensive(Apple like IBM ain't cheap) ADB cables ? > > larry > > >Reply to: >lgwalker@look.ca From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 5 22:34:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104060004.RAA15346@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1398.496T300T2743901optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> >You'll really need more RAM though, unless you find a version of OpenVMS >> >older than V7.2. I've found that 112MB is the minimum for acceptable >> >performance when running DECwindows, or 96MB without DECwindows installed. >> >> Aaargh! Is that really true? Then there is no chance of fitting it onto a >> MicroVAX II!? >Sure there is, the *VAX* version of OpenVMS will run quite nicely on a >MicroVAX II. A bit slow, but it will run. I was talking about the *Alpha* >version of OpenVMS. I thought that would be obvious. No, I thought the only difference would be the processor architecture, just like NetBSD ports. Mind you, a RISC processor might require some more RAM, but over a hundred megs? >BTW, read the OpenVMS SPD, you'll find a MicroVAX II with 16MB is about the >minimum supported by OpenVMS V7.2. You'll probably want to leave DECwindows >off the MicroVAX II unless you've actually got a video card and monitor for >it. There is a IIGPX at the usergroup, might be fun to put that screen to better use than running an enormous NetBSD console. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! Are they now created with a random word generator? What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? What is "Interdev"? Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? Grumpy Ol' Fred From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 5 18:29:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010405202726.02c68bc0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3ACCF371.28734.54B833D@localhost> Message-ID: <20010406032816.PVQA24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:28:10 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Geoff Reed > Subject: Re: ADB bus and S-video > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > DING DING DING DING DING give the gentleman a cigar :) I've used SVideo > cables in a pinch, as long as they aren't monster long they seem to work fine. > Let me strike the gong few times as well... That's exactly what I fixed a mac ADB with a new S-Video connector. :-) Besides RS for connector, S-Video cables is super expensive, any suggestions for inexpensive s-video cables? Cheers, Wizard From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 5 23:56:36 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Charging Laptop (and other)batteries In-Reply-To: <3ACCF371.24666.54B8365@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010405235636.3bdf222e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:36 PM 4/5/01 -0400, larry wrote: > This is likely elementary but many times I run across the encased laptop >and other function(eg cordless drills) batteries. Of course each has it's own proprietory >charger which have long since disappeared and are costly to replace as well as being >device and company specific . Many of them have a 3rd terminal. What was it's >purpose. > Can you recharge these batteries simply by rigging up an interface using appropriate >voltages and polarity ? How would you deal with the 3rd terminal ? > > Larry, I'm assuming that your talking about NiCad batteries. If so, the third terminal is usually connected back to the * battery terminal via a thermal switch. The third terminal is used to recharge the batteries at a high current rate (Quick Charge). The thermal switch has to be in the circuit to prevent the batteries over heating and being damaged by the high current. You can go ahead charge the batteries at a normal 1/10 C (or lower) rate via the third terminal or the normal * terminal. The batteries will also last a lot longer if they're charged at 1/10 C instead "Quick Charged". The charge voltage isn't critical in NiCads but the charging current is important. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 5 23:59:42 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: HP64000 info... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010405161006.0174b9e0@mail.30below.com> References: <200104051919.LAA07808@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010405235942.3bdf7b78@mailhost.intellistar.net> Roger, I got ahold of **seven** HP 64000s a couple of years ago but I found that they were useless (no pods, etc) and I couldn't even give them away so I stripped them for parts and tossed the rest(1). However I keep finding bits and pieces for them including accessories, manuals and software. Therefore I've been keeping an open box around that I throw the stuff in and when it fills up I pack it up and ship it to Frank McConnell since he's the only one around that seems to be interested in the stuff. I picked up a 64110 or 64110 last year and it's around here somewhere waiting for me to do something with it. I think it has a 68000 pod attached to it. Also I found a guy nearby that has a pile of docs and software for the 64xx0s. He doesn't want to get rid of it but if you're looking for something specific I can try to look it up or copy the appropriate info. (1) Of course the week after I tossed the 64000s. I found that the CRTs were the same as the one that I needed to fix my HP 9835 with! :-( Joe At 04:10 PM 4/5/01 -0400, Roger wrote: >Well, assuming (of course) that there might be some new folks out here on >this list... > >Does anyone have anything (disks, info, manuals, proggies, peripherals, I >mean anything) for a Hewlett Packard 64000 system? > >I purchased one of these late last summer (it has a QIC tape drive & an >Eprom burner, but methinks the burner only supports 2708's & 2716's) and it >passes diagnostics, but I think they were hooked up in network mode & it >was netbooted... so I really can't do much of anything with it right now... > >Here's a list of the boards I have in it, and other specifics: > >Hp 64100A mainframe >sn# 2033a01075 > >2 rs232c ports >(to modem/to peripheral) >current loop >4 bnc ports >300 w. Power supply > >internal: >slot a: (red) i/o >slot b: (white) dspl ctrl >slot c: (blue) cpu >slot 0: 64940a (tape) >slot 1: 64501a (prom) >slot 2: (empty) >slot 3: (empty) >slot 4: (empty) >slot 5: (empty) >slot 6: 64153a (mem.16k) >slot 7: 64151a (mem.con) >slot 8: 64300a (int.anl) > (internal analysis) >slot 9: 64211a (em 6800) > >The board in slot 9 is a Motorola 6800 emulator, so you can crossassemble >6800 ML proggies & burn them to an eprom... We used these in concert with >the Heathkit 6800-based trainers (one of which I'm still looking for...) >back in college. > >Webpages, FAQ's, any info at all about this critter would be most appreciated. > >Thanks in advance, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 5 23:33:22 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning (was Re: Ever take a In-Reply-To: <200104051715.LAA26076@calico.litterbox.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010405094900.01f42b80@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010405233322.3bdfd348@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:15 AM 4/5/01 -0600, Jim wrote: >Whoa. It's amazing that in our safety paranoid age these cartriges are >still around. I suppose the fact that they're rifle ammunition normally >conveys their inherant danger to people. Still, you're making me rethink >my choice of plinking guns. Perhaps one of these ruger 9mm rifles... I "plink" with a .50 BMG rifle. There's not many vacuum cleaners that'll suck up those cartridges! Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 5 23:09:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <1398.496T300T2743901optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 06, 2001 04:34:06 AM Message-ID: <200104060409.VAA20783@shell1.aracnet.com> > No, I thought the only difference would be the processor architecture, just > like NetBSD ports. Mind you, a RISC processor might require some more RAM, but > over a hundred megs? Well, keep in mind you can run OpenVMS with DECwindows on a 16MB MicroVAX II system, but that doesn't mean you're going to get acceptable performance. Actually I'm not sure what kind of performance you'll get, I've not tried to run V7.2 w/DECwindows on anything less than a VAXstation 4000/vlc. I know people have run it in even less RAM than that even though it's not supported. Also as far as I know the VAX DECwindows install doesn't include CDE (Common Desktop Environment) which is something of a pig. BTW, you can install OpenVMS V7.2 on an Alpha with only 64MB of RAM (I've heard it won't install on a system with less). However, again that doesn't mean you'll enjoy it. So the minimum RAM requirements are 16MB for VAX and 64MB for Alpha. > There is a IIGPX at the usergroup, might be fun to put that screen to better > use than running an enormous NetBSD console. Go for it, but you might want to run an earlier version of VMS if you can find it. But even V7.2 is a better use for it than NetBSD :^) After all the only DEC hardware NetBSD belongs on are the MIPS based boxes :^) Zane From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Apr 5 23:26:16 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104060409.VAA20783@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Apr 05, 2001 09:09:27 PM Message-ID: <200104060426.WAA28665@calico.litterbox.com> > Also as far as I know the VAX DECwindows install doesn't include CDE (Common > Desktop Environment) which is something of a pig. Why on earth would you want to run DecWindows? Run an xserver on your linux box or windows machine and export the windows to it. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 5 23:42:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104060426.WAA28665@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Apr 05, 2001 10:26:16 PM Message-ID: <200104060442.VAA21376@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Also as far as I know the VAX DECwindows install doesn't include CDE (Common > > Desktop Environment) which is something of a pig. > > Why on earth would you want to run DecWindows? Run an xserver on your > linux box or windows machine and export the windows to it. Why on earth would you want a Linux box or Windows box? OK, I admit I've got a couple Linux boxes. One is primarily for working from home, the other is a dedicated box for running a PDP-10 emulator (doesn't even run X-Windows). Zane From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Apr 6 01:04:25 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video Message-ID: <92.12ca489d.27feb669@aol.com> In a message dated 4/5/01 8:36:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jpero@sympatico.ca writes: > any > suggestions for inexpensive s-video cables? This is a funny thread. Going around in a circle I have been using cheap ADB cables for S-video cables in my video work. I have found all the ADB cables I need for $1 each at the Eugene, Oregon Goodwill store. Paxton Portland, OR From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Apr 5 21:26:48 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <3ACD1B09.FDB9CB02@internet1.net>; from fernande@internet1.net on Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 08:25:29PM -0500 References: <200104051400.JAA09988@opal.tseinc.com> <002901c0be31$9d166760$6401a8c0@John> <3ACD1B09.FDB9CB02@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010406052648.A767@sd160.local> On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 08:25:29PM -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! Didn't Paul Allen buy one of XKL's TOAD-1:s ? You really can't hate him after knowing that :) -- jht From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 6 01:50:42 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <92.12ca489d.27feb669@aol.com>; from Innfogra@aol.com on Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 02:04:25AM -0400 References: <92.12ca489d.27feb669@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010405235042.H11463@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 02:04:25AM -0400, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/5/01 8:36:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > jpero@sympatico.ca writes: > > > any > > suggestions for inexpensive s-video cables? > > This is a funny thread. Going around in a circle > > I have been using cheap ADB cables for S-video cables in my video work. I > have found all the ADB cables I need for $1 each at the Eugene, Oregon > Goodwill store. I for one could use a small handful if you'd be willing to ship me some. How about mice, do they have those too? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 6 05:33:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <3ACCF371.28734.54B833D@localhost> Message-ID: > In fooling with my Mac PM7100av and AudioVision monitor I noticed that >the Apple ADB connector and the standard s-video connector are the same. > Any data on this ? And does it mean that a cheap s-video cable could be >used in place of relatively expensive(Apple like IBM ain't cheap) ADB cables ? Svhs works fine for ADB, ADB sucks as Svhs, but I sell both cheap, like $2 for ADB and $3 for svhs, and those are typical internet prices. ADB is just plain wire, Svhs should be coax internally I think. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 6 05:28:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <3ACD1B09.FDB9CB02@internet1.net> References: <200104051400.JAA09988@opal.tseinc.com> <002901c0be31$9d166760$6401a8c0@John> Message-ID: >I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! Yeah I can just see the entry lobby with a copy of PC DOS 1.0 next to the original source. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 6 05:26:36 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: AT&T WGS 6386? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010405204129.00add2b0@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <003f01c0bddb$95bb4720$d562d6d1@DOMAIN> <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797C9@MAIL10> Message-ID: >At 02:09 PM 4/5/01 -0700, you wrote: >>Any interest in a AT&T WGS 6386? >> >>I bought two of them at a scrap yard, just CPU, and recently one more came >>in with monitor and keyboard. They are going to be scrapped, as I really >>don't know what to do with them. Unfortunately, no docs or disks of any >>kind. > >I have the following on consignment on my web site if interested: > >AT&T 6386SX/EL WGS Customer Diagnostics Version 1.10 on 3-1/2 $ 5 Found your web site, gotta love the power of all those search engines when turned loose. You really ought to mention the URL to the whole list though, quite a bit of stuff. You have a bunch of AT&T software, including two sets of customer diagnostics for the 6386. I'm just not sure if I want to get into yet another project myself. Thinking on it though. ;) From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 6 05:54:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <20010405235042.H11463@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> References: <92.12ca489d.27feb669@aol.com> <20010405235042.H11463@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: > > I have been using cheap ADB cables for S-video cables in my video work. I >> have found all the ADB cables I need for $1 each at the Eugene, Oregon >> Goodwill store. > >I for one could use a small handful if you'd be willing to ship me some. > >How about mice, do they have those too? I've rarely had a problem coming up with keyboards and mice for Macs, but the cables are a whole different story. I've often wished that Apple had done like most manufacturers and permenantly attached the cable, which they did on their later 'Design' series keyboards. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From gene at ehrich.com Fri Apr 6 07:02:46 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Web Site In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010405204129.00add2b0@popmail.voicenet.com> <003f01c0bddb$95bb4720$d562d6d1@DOMAIN> <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E58797C9@MAIL10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010406080052.00ae11d0@popmail.voicenet.com> At 03:26 AM 4/6/01 -0700, you wrote: > >I have the following on consignment on my web site if interested: > > > >AT&T 6386SX/EL WGS Customer Diagnostics Version 1.10 on 3-1/2 $ 5 > >Found your web site, gotta love the power of all those search engines when >turned loose. You really ought to mention the URL to the whole list though, >quite a bit of stuff. Ask and ye shall receive: www.voicenet.com/~generic --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 6 08:33:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104060442.VAA21376@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 5, 1 09:42:51 pm" Message-ID: <200104061333.FAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Why on earth would you want a Linux box or Windows box? OK, I admit I've > got a couple Linux boxes. One is primarily for working from home, the other > is a dedicated box for running a PDP-10 emulator (doesn't even run > X-Windows). I won't run CDE on stockholm. Aside from the usual security holes of having RPC services on a machine that isn't behind a firewall, it's a resource hog and I hate X anyway. (I do like Aqua, though -- Apple's done a fab job on OS X.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A dean is to faculty as a hydrant is to a dog. -- Alfred Kahn -------------- From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Apr 6 09:33:40 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building Message-ID: <20010406.093340.-349517.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:28:22 -0700 Mike Ford writes: > >I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! > > Yeah I can just see the entry lobby with a copy of PC DOS 1.0 next > to the original source. You forgot to add that the accompanying blurb would explain how Bill G. wrote it (single-handedly) over a 72 hour period after IBM requested he write them an OS. :^/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 6 05:38:45 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:53 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: References: <20010405235042.H11463@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <20010406143751.HBCJ703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:54:50 -0400 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: ADB bus and S-video > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > I have been using cheap ADB cables for S-video cables in my video work. I > >> have found all the ADB cables I need for $1 each at the Eugene, Oregon > >> Goodwill store. > >How about mice, do they have those too? What about teardrop shaped kind? Most I find are two wedge kind, these all I have now, would like one. > I've rarely had a problem coming up with keyboards and mice > for Macs, but the cables are a whole different story. More power to you!! None of this is like this in kingston, ontario, I must buy up ADB Macs if cheap enough to get those ADB keyboards I desire. Rarely locally, looks like I have to do it via Ebay, which I'm unhappy with canadian/USA exhange rate. When I visited rochester NY, I can buy all what I want on Macs parts at local CR store which I regettably didn't! :-P Which I will not have chance for long time since my only friend lived there moved out. > I've often > wished that Apple had done like most manufacturers and permenantly > attached the cable, which they did on their later 'Design' series > keyboards. Oh, I favor deatchable for easier repair and transport. Also comes out on the sides not on rear so I could shove the keyboard hard against anything without putting a crimp on the wire that I always do with peecee keyboards. That's product of my limited space and move machines around frequently. Tip: if you have iffy keyboard and mice that goes out with a wiggle on ADB connectors, resolder the two connectors where pins goes through circuit board. I did that on mine. > > Jeff Cheers, Wizard From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Apr 6 09:42:38 2001 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: E11 & RT11v02 Message-ID: <3ACDD5DE.6ED67810@arrl.net> ok, slightly OT. Transferring the os was a snap since the emulator will read my 11/83's RX33s directly. But since RT11v02 does not recognize the rx33 I could only transfer the files and have not been able to bootstrap the emulated rk05. putr.com's boot command seems to work only with post-version2 os's, and the e11 docs don't seem to cover this. Perhaps e11 wont do ver 2? I suppose I could try to locate a 8" drive to strap onto the pc (to boot one of my rx01s) This is my first try with e11 so don't know all the ins-outs yet. Anyone tried rt-v02 on this emulator? Any hints would be appreciated thanks..... nick From mbg at world.std.com Fri Apr 6 10:14:43 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: E11 & RT11v02 Message-ID: <200104061514.LAA20545@world.std.com> So you actually have a distribution of RT V02? I'd like to get a copy from you for my archives. Anyway, maybe what we need is a copy of the boot blocks for various devices so that they can simply be layed down in the disk image (using a very simple program) on block 0. Actually, I think it might be a little difficult with a version of RT that old, simply because the split between the monitor and the device drivers had not yet been made, so you had to build a monitor which included the devices you wanted it to have, and built to boot using a specific handler. This was back in the days of DXMNFB and RKMNFB which were the monitors for RT-11 FB on an RX01 and RT-11 FB on an RK05, respectively. Megan From mbg at world.std.com Fri Apr 6 10:18:27 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: E11 & RT11v02 Message-ID: <200104061518.LAA10167@world.std.com> also... MSCP support didn't come into RT until V5, and the RQDX3 (and hence the RX33s) weren't really supported until V5.2 Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 10:21:41 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building References: <20010406.093340.-349517.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <002e01c0bead$49f53440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I smell another bout of MS-bashing ... Isn't it great that someone bought the thing and plans to do something other than tear it down and build a Taco Bell? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey l Kaneko" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:33 AM Subject: Re: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building > > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:28:22 -0700 Mike Ford > writes: > > >I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! > > > > Yeah I can just see the entry lobby with a copy of PC DOS 1.0 next > > to the original source. > > You forgot to add that the accompanying blurb would explain how > Bill G. wrote it (single-handedly) over a 72 hour period after > IBM requested he write them an OS. :^/ > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Apr 6 10:50:21 2001 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: CDP-1802 Bonanza In-Reply-To: <3ACCEC50.8B319D0A@southwind.net> References: <3ACCEC50.8B319D0A@southwind.net> Message-ID: <4aprct852sinkc9bn400l6uilkkum11a0q@4ax.com> Sounds like a good reason to build a Cosmac ELF or six... The original plans are available on my site if anyone is interested. If anyone builds one, I'd appreciate a photo of it to post to my site; I've already collected a couple others that I need to post sometime. On Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:06:08 -0500, Joel Ewy wrote: >Here's the list of people who've contacted me so far requesting >CDP-1802s from my stash (in order received): > >Dave McGuire >Alex Knight >Pete Turnbull >Ethan Dicks >Mike Haas > >for a total of 24 parts. I hope I haven't missed anybody. > I think I'll keep about 5 of the original 62. So there would be >about 33 still unspoken for. Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 6 10:49:22 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <20010406143751.HBCJ703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Apr 6, 01 10:38:45 am Message-ID: <200104061549.LAA01402@wordstock.com> > > More power to you!! None of this is like this in kingston, ontario, I > must buy up ADB Macs if cheap enough to get those ADB keyboards I > desire. Rarely locally, looks like I have to do it via Ebay, which > I'm unhappy with canadian/USA exhange rate. > Have you ever been to Forest City Surplus in London? I know they used to have lots of electronics surplus... 420 km should only take you about 2 hours going at 401 speeds. ;-) The Gilbrator Trade Centre is in the same spot. It's a flea market that is only open on weekends. And it is a lot closer then rochester... > When I visited rochester NY, I can buy all what I want on Macs parts > at local CR store which I regettably didn't! :-P Which I will not > have chance for long time since my only friend lived there moved out. > From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 6 09:40:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <20010406052648.A767@sd160.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 08:25:29PM -0500, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! > > Didn't Paul Allen buy one of XKL's TOAD-1:s ? You really can't hate him > after knowing that :) Paul Allen rocks! Literally. Hell, he funded a Jimi Hendrix museum. He can't be all that bad. Actually, Paul Allen seems to me to be a real benevolent guy. Kinda like an Anti-Bill. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 6 07:05:08 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <200104061549.LAA01402@wordstock.com> References: <20010406143751.HBCJ703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Apr 6, 01 10:38:45 am Message-ID: <20010406160414.VBKE22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Bryan Pope > Subject: Re: ADB bus and S-video > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:49:22 -0400 (edt) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Hi, > Have you ever been to Forest City Surplus in London? I know they used > to have lots of electronics surplus... 420 km should only take you > about 2 hours going at 401 speeds. ;-) > > The Gilbrator Trade Centre is in the same spot. It's a flea market that > is only open on weekends. Nice...Mucho appreciated. The fastest transportation available for affordable cost is VIA. No car and yet to get license (i'm 28) and unemployed. 2 hours takes me around the lake to toronto (round trip is appox $70 same day for kingston-toronto) and about 20 minutes to Bransford where intitution I grew up there, maybe another 30 minutes to London. I wonder if rail does go there? > And it is a lot closer then rochester... True and IN Canada! Cheers, Wizard From vhmasi at conexion.com.py Fri Apr 6 12:41:43 2001 From: vhmasi at conexion.com.py (Victor H. Masi) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface Message-ID: <000801c0bec0$dd259580$ad8f75d1@conexion.com.py> I' looking for data sheet of the PERTEC interface, electrical and timing caracteristics thanks !!!! VH -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010406/920b5518/attachment.html From red at bears.org Fri Apr 6 11:45:12 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Svhs works fine for ADB, ADB sucks as Svhs, but I sell both cheap, like $2 > for ADB and $3 for svhs, and those are typical internet prices. ADB is just > plain wire, Svhs should be coax internally I think. I can vouch for S-Video cables being coax inside. I cut one in half to put a pair of RCA plugs opposite the mini-DIN, so I could plug Commodore's Y/C video output into an S-Video input. ok r. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 6 11:48:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104061333.FAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200104060442.VAA21376@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 5, 1 09:42:51 pm" Message-ID: >I won't run CDE on stockholm. Aside from the usual security holes of having >RPC services on a machine that isn't behind a firewall, it's a resource >hog and I hate X anyway. (I do like Aqua, though -- Apple's done a fab job >on OS X.) Three weeks ago, I'd have questioned your sanity :^) However, the release version of MacOS X isn't to bad. The amazing thing I noticed was at least one app that wouldn't work right under 9.0 & Public Beta seems to work fine under 9.1 & Release. Namely my old copy of eXodus v6.1.2. Having said that after about three days of trying to get it to work I'm back to using 8.6 on my G4/450. Why, becuase the B********* dropped classic Appletalk support so I can't mount the Appletalk shares on my OpenVMS server, and I can't get it to mount the NFS exports on the OpenVMS server (it'll mount them from a Solaris box, and the Solaris box will mount them from the OpenVMS box). Yeah, I'm more than a little pissed at Apple, but you're right it's pretty good. Though I also seriously prefer the Platinum interface. BTW, am I the *ONLY* person that *LIKES* CDE? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 6 12:00:58 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <20010406160414.VBKE22656.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Apr 6, 01 12:05:08 pm Message-ID: <200104061700.NAA20310@wordstock.com> > Hi, > > > Have you ever been to Forest City Surplus in London? I know they used > > to have lots of electronics surplus... 420 km should only take you > > about 2 hours going at 401 speeds. ;-) > > > > The Gilbrator Trade Centre is in the same spot. It's a flea market that > > is only open on weekends. > > Nice...Mucho appreciated. The fastest transportation available for > affordable cost is VIA. No car and yet to get license (i'm > 28) and unemployed. 2 hours takes me around the lake to toronto > (round trip is appox $70 same day for kingston-toronto) and about 20 > minutes to Bransford where intitution I grew up there, maybe another > 30 minutes to London. I wonder if rail does go there? > Yes, right to downtown London. Then you take a bus down Dundas street. There is also a Greyhound depot in the same area. I one took the Greyhound all the way to Toronto. But I would make sure they had what you were looking for before making the trip... > > And it is a lot closer then rochester... > > True and IN Canada! > Cheers! (With a Molson!) Bryan From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 6 12:10:16 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <002e01c0bead$49f53440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01Apr6.131800edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Of course it's good that a building that contributed to the growth of the industry as a whole is being saved. As for the MS bashing, check out these comments on it's .NET initiative, including references for the points he makes. Scary stuff: http://www.macobserver.com/columns/ibrotha/2001/20010406.shtml Jeff On Friday, April 6, 2001, at 11:21 AM, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I smell another bout of MS-bashing ... > > Isn't it great that someone bought the thing and plans to do something > other > than tear it down and build a Taco Bell? > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey l Kaneko" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:33 AM > Subject: Re: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building > > >> >> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:28:22 -0700 Mike Ford >> writes: >>>> I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! >>> >>> Yeah I can just see the entry lobby with a copy of PC DOS 1.0 next >>> to the original source. >> >> You forgot to add that the accompanying blurb would explain how >> Bill G. wrote it (single-handedly) over a 72 hour period after >> IBM requested he write them an OS. :^/ >> ________________________________________________________________ >> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >> >> > From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Apr 6 12:12:57 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: <000801c0bec0$dd259580$ad8f75d1@conexion.com.py> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:41:43 -0500 "Victor H. Masi" wrote: > I' looking for data sheet of the PERTEC interface, > electrical and timing caracteristics Are you thinking of the Pertec magnetic tape interface? I have a Cifer front-loading half-inch magtape drive that (I'm told) has the Pertec interface. It has two large 50-way ribbon cables coming out of the back. So, much as I hate to say "Me Too", I'd also like to find out more about the Pertec interface. Was there ever a PC ISA-bus card for this? Or a VME (Sun-3) card? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From ewy at southwind.net Fri Apr 6 12:23:47 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: CDP-1802s update Message-ID: <3ACDFBA2.4D8CAD7B@southwind.net> Ok, the reservation list now consists of: Dave McGuire Alex Knight Pete Turnbull Ethan Dicks Mike Haas Robert Cobbins Tony Eros Mike Cheponis Chandra Baipai Richard Cini I now have about 50 parts spoken for, which leaves about 7. A couple people have asked for 10 chips, and if there's still demand after I run out I might ask them if they'd be satisfied with fewer so more people can get some. I sorted all the parts and it turns out that five of them are 1802CE and the rest are BCE. Does anybody know the difference? My databook doesn't cover the BCE. Some people have asked for some CE and some BCE parts and it would be nice to know how to divide them up fairly (and whether or not I would want to keep any of the CEs for myself :) I probably won't get around to dividing them up and packaging them till some time early next week. At that point, I'll get back in touch with everybody on the list to confirm and work out the shipping and payment details. JCE -- Joel Ewy spamthis_ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From curt at atari-history.com Fri Apr 6 16:00:29 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Sun 1 References: <01Apr6.131800edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3ACE2E6D.9A308D0@atari-history.com> Hi, Anybody know a site with some really good pic's of the original Sun 1 ??? Inside/Outside shots? Thx Curt From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 6 13:05:35 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: John Honniball "Re: pertec interface" (Apr 6, 18:12) References: Message-ID: <10104061905.ZM2198@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 6, 18:12, John Honniball wrote: > Are you thinking of the Pertec magnetic tape interface? I > have a Cifer front-loading half-inch magtape drive that > (I'm told) has the Pertec interface. It has two large > 50-way ribbon cables coming out of the back. > > So, much as I hate to say "Me Too", I'd also like to find > out more about the Pertec interface. Was there ever a PC > ISA-bus card for this? Or a VME (Sun-3) card? I'm sure there are VME cards. Dunno about ISA. I've posted the pinout for the 2 x 50-way interface on my website at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/pertec.ps. It's a PostScript file. I can't remember where the information originally came from, it was either an Emulex TC02 manual or the manual for my tape deck. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 6 13:08:47 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104060409.VAA20783@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > No, I thought the only difference would be the processor architecture, just > > like NetBSD ports. Mind you, a RISC processor might require some more RAM, but > > over a hundred megs? > > Well, keep in mind you can run OpenVMS with DECwindows on a 16MB MicroVAX II > system, but that doesn't mean you're going to get acceptable performance. > Actually I'm not sure what kind of performance you'll get, I've not tried to > run V7.2 w/DECwindows on anything less than a VAXstation 4000/vlc. I know > people have run it in even less RAM than that even though it's not > supported. I'd like one of those VLCs, it really looks smart. > BTW, you can install OpenVMS V7.2 on an Alpha with only 64MB of RAM (I've > heard it won't install on a system with less). However, again that doesn't > mean you'll enjoy it. So the minimum RAM requirements are 16MB for VAX and > 64MB for Alpha. Then I suppose my VMS escapades will have to be postponed for a moment, since I'm having a hard time finding any ECC memory for my AlphaPCI133, much less 64 whopping megs. > > There is a IIGPX at the usergroup, might be fun to put that screen to better > > use than running an enormous NetBSD console. > > Go for it, but you might want to run an earlier version of VMS if you can > find it. But even V7.2 is a better use for it than NetBSD :^) After all > the only DEC hardware NetBSD belongs on are the MIPS based boxes :^) Agreed, I've got a 5000/200 running sysinst nonstop. It's quite a quiet box as long as you don't add any drives. =) What would be the minimum version of VMS with DECwindows, without being downright mean to the user? Sigh, electricity bills and "big" iron don't go well together. From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 6 13:11:09 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104061333.FAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Why on earth would you want a Linux box or Windows box? OK, I admit I've > > got a couple Linux boxes. One is primarily for working from home, the other > > is a dedicated box for running a PDP-10 emulator (doesn't even run > > X-Windows). > > I won't run CDE on stockholm. Aside from the usual security holes of having > RPC services on a machine that isn't behind a firewall, it's a resource > hog and I hate X anyway. (I do like Aqua, though -- Apple's done a fab job > on OS X.) But is there any relationship whatsoever between Aqua and X11? Personally, I think OSX looks too much as though it's sculpted out of Mentos and toothpaste to be a nice system. It lacks the classic elegance of earlier Mac systems. From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Fri Apr 6 13:29:57 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: <10104061905.ZM2198@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000001c0bec7$95e5f960$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> > I'm sure there are VME cards. Dunno about ISA. I have an ISA card at home. Will post something more about it when I get there. (No software for it though.) John A. From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Apr 6 12:30:43 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: References: <200104061333.FAA12520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <200104060442.VAA21376@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010406133043.00f2fa44@obregon.multi.net.co> At 09:48 AM 4/6/01 -0700, Zane wrote: >BTW, am I the *ONLY* person that *LIKES* CDE? No. I do too. It does most of what I need, and when I am not in sysadmin mode I can almost forget about whether I'm on Linux, Solaris, or HPUX. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Fri Apr 6 15:49:56 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Sun 1 In-Reply-To: <3ACE2E6D.9A308D0@atari-history.com>; from curt@atari-history.com on Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 02:00:29PM -0700 References: <01Apr6.131800edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ACE2E6D.9A308D0@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <20010406204956.A4439@localhostnl.demon.nl> A good place to start is... www.sunhelp.org -Bill Amsterdam, NL On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 02:00:29PM -0700, Curt Vendel wrote: > Hi, > > Anybody know a site with some really good pic's of the original Sun 1 ??? > Inside/Outside shots? > > > Thx > > Curt > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 6 14:06:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010406133043.00f2fa44@obregon.multi.net.co> from Carlos Murillo at "Apr 6, 1 01:30:43 pm" Message-ID: <200104061906.LAA13004@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >BTW, am I the *ONLY* person that *LIKES* CDE? > > No. I do too. It does most of what I need, and when > I am not in sysadmin mode I can almost forget about > whether I'm on Linux, Solaris, or HPUX. I think it's much nicer than other "brands" of X, but I'm not an X fan to start with. Also on the ANS, it's 1024x768x256 max, so it's kind of a drag in that sense. Rather have a 16-bit colour workstation. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all? -- F.T. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 6 14:17:09 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: References: <200104060409.VAA20783@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Then I suppose my VMS escapades will have to be postponed for a moment, >since I'm having a hard time finding any ECC memory for my AlphaPCI133, >much less 64 whopping megs. Is VMS supported on such a box? >What would be the minimum version of VMS with DECwindows, without being >downright mean to the user? >Sigh, electricity bills and "big" iron don't go well together. For something like a MicroVAX II class machine V5.5-2 if you can come up with it works real good. Though I've only used V5.5-2 with terminals. One thing to consider is V7.2 has one BIG advantage, all the doc's are on th web! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 6 14:27:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Apr 6, 1 06:12:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1183 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010406/79eee34e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 6 14:04:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Charging Laptop (and other)batteries In-Reply-To: <3ACCF371.24666.54B8365@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Apr 5, 1 10:36:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010406/62c810f2/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Apr 6 14:37:31 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface Message-ID: In a message dated 4/6/01 10:20:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk writes: > Was there ever a PC > ISA-bus card for this? Yes, there was but I don't remember who made it. I had a customer who bought tape drives from me. He brought over a PC (probably a 286) with an ISA card Pertec interface. We tested drives with it till he found the ones he liked. Worked well. Paxton Portland, OR From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 6 14:08:25 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <20010406.093340.-349517.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: >On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:28:22 -0700 Mike Ford >writes: >> >I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! >> >> Yeah I can just see the entry lobby with a copy of PC DOS 1.0 next >> to the original source. > >You forgot to add that the accompanying blurb would explain how >Bill G. wrote it (single-handedly) over a 72 hour period after >IBM requested he write them an OS. :^/ That gives me an interesting idea, open up a M$ museum of HORROR, with exhibits showing the various dirty deals, OS releases with known bug lists next to them etc. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Apr 6 14:49:12 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Sun 1 In-Reply-To: <3ACE2E6D.9A308D0@atari-history.com> "from Curt Vendel at Apr 6, 2001 02:00:29 pm" Message-ID: <200104061949.OAA16357@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Anybody know a site with some really good pic's of the original Sun 1 ??? > Inside/Outside shots? > www.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/sun1.html Those pictures were taken with a polaroid camera, and then scanned. Now that I have a digital camera I will eventually redo the pictures. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 6 14:53:51 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: <10104061905.ZM2198@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: John Honniball "Re: pertec interface" (Apr 6, 18:12) Message-ID: >> Are you thinking of the Pertec magnetic tape interface? I >> have a Cifer front-loading half-inch magtape drive that >> (I'm told) has the Pertec interface. It has two large >> 50-way ribbon cables coming out of the back. One of the people on another list was asking about a "early SCSI" cable that used 2 x 50pin ribbon cables on a hard drive. Was there such a SCSI, or is it likely he has a pertec drive? From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 6 14:55:27 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: References: <20010406.093340.-349517.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010406145418.02f41ba0@pc> At 12:08 PM 4/6/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >That gives me an interesting idea, open up a M$ museum of HORROR, with >exhibits showing the various dirty deals, OS releases with known bug lists >next to them etc. Oh, yeah, that would be a popular museum. Actually, it's on the web at http://search.support.microsoft.com/kb/c.asp?ln=en-us&sd=gn . - John From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 6 15:06:45 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! References: Message-ID: <3ACE21D5.B093123B@internet1.net> It just stops. I tried pressing return, maybe control z, too. Nothing seems to happen. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Paul Thompson wrote: > > Does it just hang or reboot here, or does control Z or enter cause any > changes? > > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Error opening primary input file SYS$INPUT > > Error in file name > > > > -- From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 15:09:58 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: <000801c0bec0$dd259580$ad8f75d1@conexion.com.py> Message-ID: <002001c0bed5$8e1f47a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I don't know about getting the spec's, but you might try http://www.electrovalueinc.com/faq.htm#ContOnly for starters. A google search turned this up in less than a second. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor H. Masi To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: pertec interface I' looking for data sheet of the PERTEC interface, electrical and timing caracteristics thanks !!!! VH -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010406/d03e2834/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 15:16:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building References: Message-ID: <002e01c0bed6$85320320$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It seems that I'm not the only one that believes that all employees of a software vendor that releases a product with even one bug should be dipped in the solder pot. Keep in mind, though, that that's even ONE bug, so don't stow thrones ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building > >On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 03:28:22 -0700 Mike Ford > >writes: > >> >I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! > >> > >> Yeah I can just see the entry lobby with a copy of PC DOS 1.0 next > >> to the original source. > > > >You forgot to add that the accompanying blurb would explain how > >Bill G. wrote it (single-handedly) over a 72 hour period after > >IBM requested he write them an OS. :^/ > > That gives me an interesting idea, open up a M$ museum of HORROR, with > exhibits showing the various dirty deals, OS releases with known bug lists > next to them etc. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 15:18:42 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: John Honniball "Re: pertec interface" (Apr 6, 18:12) Message-ID: <003a01c0bed6$c6bc93a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've seen lots of PERTEC interfaces, each with two 50-pin cable connectors. I've also seen quite a few SCSI open-reel drives, and they normally have only one. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: pertec interface > >> Are you thinking of the Pertec magnetic tape interface? I > >> have a Cifer front-loading half-inch magtape drive that > >> (I'm told) has the Pertec interface. It has two large > >> 50-way ribbon cables coming out of the back. > > One of the people on another list was asking about a "early SCSI" cable > that used 2 x 50pin ribbon cables on a hard drive. Was there such a SCSI, > or is it likely he has a pertec drive? > > > From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 6 15:26:49 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Then I suppose my VMS escapades will have to be postponed for a moment, > >since I'm having a hard time finding any ECC memory for my AlphaPCI133, > >much less 64 whopping megs. > > Is VMS supported on such a box? No, but there are inofficial patches. > >What would be the minimum version of VMS with DECwindows, without being > >downright mean to the user? > >Sigh, electricity bills and "big" iron don't go well together. > > For something like a MicroVAX II class machine V5.5-2 if you can come up > with it works real good. Though I've only used V5.5-2 with terminals. We've got an entire VMS doc set, but all our TK cartridges seem to be Ultrix. Wonder where the software has gone. > One thing to consider is V7.2 has one BIG advantage, all the doc's are on > th web! Pas de probl?me for us. =) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 6 15:48:49 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: Mike Ford "Re: pertec interface" (Apr 6, 12:53) References: John Honniball "Re: pertec interface" (Apr 6 18:12) Message-ID: <10104062148.ZM2323@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 6, 12:53, Mike Ford wrote: > >> Are you thinking of the Pertec magnetic tape interface? I > >> have a Cifer front-loading half-inch magtape drive that > >> (I'm told) has the Pertec interface. It has two large > >> 50-way ribbon cables coming out of the back. > > One of the people on another list was asking about a "early SCSI" cable > that used 2 x 50pin ribbon cables on a hard drive. Was there such a SCSI, > or is it likely he has a pertec drive? Much more likely Pertec than SCSI. Original SCSI, and SASI before it, are 50-wire interfaces. However, if he means that an external box had 2 x 50-pin connectors, it could be SCSI; they usually have two sockets so you can daisy-chain them, or plug in a terminator on the last box. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 6 16:05:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 06, 2001 10:26:49 PM Message-ID: <200104062105.OAA08275@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Is VMS supported on such a box? > > No, but there are inofficial patches. If they're like the Multia patches you're likely to have a problem then as you pretty much need a system that's already running to build the boot disk. > We've got an entire VMS doc set, but all our TK cartridges seem to be > Ultrix. Wonder where the software has gone. I'm surprised, based on my experiences Ultrix is a LOT harder to find than VMS. Zane From broth at heathers.stdio.com Fri Apr 6 16:05:35 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: Message-ID: <3ACE2F9F.CAEB5B7E@heathers.stdio.com> John, I used to see a lot of the Cipher tape drives in mail/sorting companies that utilize Cheshire ink jet machines. You can interface the Cipher with the Pertec interface with a PC using a controller made by CHI corp. I know there were othermanufacturers of interface cards as well. If you are lucky enough, Cipher used to make a Pertec to SCSI adapter that hung off the back of the unit. Brian. John Honniball wrote: > On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:41:43 -0500 "Victor H. Masi" > wrote: > > I' looking for data sheet of the PERTEC interface, > > electrical and timing caracteristics > > Are you thinking of the Pertec magnetic tape interface? I > have a Cifer front-loading half-inch magtape drive that > (I'm told) has the Pertec interface. It has two large > 50-way ribbon cables coming out of the back. > > So, much as I hate to say "Me Too", I'd also like to find > out more about the Pertec interface. Was there ever a PC > ISA-bus card for this? Or a VME (Sun-3) card? > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England -- ?????? From curt at atari-history.com Fri Apr 6 19:14:10 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Sun 1 References: <200104061949.OAA16357@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3ACE5BD2.FD185F9A@atari-history.com> Hi Larry, Wow! Thanks :-) Curt Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Anybody know a site with some really good pic's of the original Sun 1 ??? > > Inside/Outside shots? > > > > www.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/sun1.html > > Those pictures were taken with a polaroid camera, and then scanned. Now > that I have a digital camera I will eventually redo the pictures. > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu From broth at heathers.stdio.com Fri Apr 6 16:32:23 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: New Finds Message-ID: <3ACE35E7.6912AB4A@heathers.stdio.com> Just got home with a nice load. Saved it all from the dumpster. VAX 11/750 RA81 - TU80 VAXstation 4000 VLC (2) VAXstation 2000 (2) old Compaq luggables (2) storage works box's (2) Control Data Cyber 910's various DEC/Apple keyboards monitors etc.. box's DEC cables more All for $120 Any good sites for the CDC box's. I guess they are repackaged SGI? Brian. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 6 16:46:55 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: The Standalone BACKUP Story In-Reply-To: <10104062148.ZM2323@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406143136.02724ec0@208.226.86.10> How to use Standalone Backup This was one of those times when I really wonder about things. I tried to find the documentation for Standalone BACKUP on the OpenVMS web site but it wasn't there. Then when I was moving some old boxes of DEC documentation in the garage it occurred to me that perhaps something in there could help, and lo and behold I came upon "OpenVMS System Managers Manual: Essentials"! I pass on the knowledge gained therein to these two VAX aware lists ... My goal here was to create a full system image that I could restore from tape because I had a very noisy sounding RF71 and it needed replacing. The standalone backup utility is invoked with the command: $ @SYS$SYSTEM:STABACKIT Where it will ask you the device on which to write the "kit." In my case I told it TF86$MIA2: which was the device name (from a SHOW DEVICE command) that was the TF86 tape drive on my 4000. It proceeded to get a few files done and generate a parity error, and after cleaning the drive and getting the parity error again, I erased the tape with a BFM (very powerful magnet) and tried a third time which worked without a hitch. Once it was done it says: Ending time 6-APR-2001 14:24:36.55 Starting time 6-APR-2001 14:15:43.71 The kit is complete. $ And its done. However, it didn't back up my system files. Just created the kit. What does the kit do? Well standalone backup is just that, a backup program that runs without using any devices or open files etc. Now according to the OpenVMS manual you put a new tape into the drive and type: BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY disk-device: tape-device:/REWIND/LABEL=SOMELABEL Then when it asks you if you want to Overwrite the tape in the drive you type OVERWRITE Now it will chug and whir and chug some more and back up your entire system disk to tape. To get it back, you get that first tape you made with Standalone Backup on it and you boot it. Then you swap tapes and type: BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY tape-device:/REWIND/LABEL=SOMELABEL disk-device: and off it goes again, this time going the other way. If you don't want to boot standalone backup your can do this from a 'live' system by mounting the tape and destination disk using the /FOREIGN option and using the above backup command. (you can skip the /LABEL option I believe) Anyway, I did this and now have both a quieter disk and a known good backup of my system on tape. --Chuck From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 6 17:49:01 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <002e01c0bead$49f53440$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <20010406.093340.-349517.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010406174901.395f92d6@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:21 AM 4/6/01 -0600, Richard wrote: >I smell another bout of MS-bashing ... > >Isn't it great that someone bought the thing and plans to do something other >than tear it down and build a Taco Bell? Yes it is. I hope the members of this list will support it and will offer their assistance and can help keep computer history from being re-written. Joe From dittman at dittman.net Fri Apr 6 17:16:45 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: HSZ20 Message-ID: <200104062216.f36MGjr15223@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone know of an inexpensive source for a used Digital HSZ20? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 6 17:39:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Apr 6, 1 12:53:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 642 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010406/77300aa0/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 6 18:29:47 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406162744.029b2e98@208.226.86.129> Hello all, I've got a VT340 that is very fuzzy. (blurry) I'd like to try and refocus it but I don't have the maintenance manual for this terminal. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to start (well I'm going to start by seeing if the yoke has slipped backward on the tube neck, but other than that) --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 6 17:17:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:54 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > That gives me an interesting idea, open up a M$ museum of HORROR, with > exhibits showing the various dirty deals, OS releases with known bug > lists next to them etc. I never use stupid internet acronyms but LOL. That is really farqing funny ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Apr 6 18:36:11 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 06, 2001 11:39:09 PM Message-ID: <200104062336.RAA32326@calico.litterbox.com> > > > One of the people on another list was asking about a "early SCSI" cable > > that used 2 x 50pin ribbon cables on a hard drive. Was there such a SCSI, > > or is it likely he has a pertec drive? This sounds more like ESDI to me. If memory serves that was a two cable system. RLL and MFM were too, now that I think about it, although not 50 pin cables. I'm betting ESDI. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 6 19:05:16 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Sun 1 In-Reply-To: <200104061949.OAA16357@caesar.cs.umn.edu>; from lemay@cs.umn.edu on Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 02:49:12PM -0500 References: <3ACE2E6D.9A308D0@atari-history.com> <200104061949.OAA16357@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <20010406170516.L11463@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 02:49:12PM -0500, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Anybody know a site with some really good pic's of the original Sun 1 ??? > > Inside/Outside shots? > > > > www.cs.umn.edu/~lemay/sun1.html > > Those pictures were taken with a polaroid camera, and then scanned. Now > that I have a digital camera I will eventually redo the pictures. Yep that monitor looks a lot like one I have... but mine has a logo that says "LexiData", I think. It has 10 BNC connectors (separate sync, and a set of pass-through connectors I guess). Do you have video specs for it? is it useful for anything other than a Sun-1? Would you (or anyone else) like another monitor? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 6 19:06:05 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: <200104062336.RAA32326@calico.litterbox.com> References: <200104062336.RAA32326@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >This sounds more like ESDI to me. If memory serves that was a two >cable system. >RLL and MFM were too, now that I think about it, although not 50 pin cables. >I'm betting ESDI. The only true ESDI system, not counting the IBM DBA interface used in some of the PS/2 series, that I have here is in my MicroVAX II and it had daul Maxtor XT-8380E's installed. Full height 5-1/4" drives of 380meg each. I pulled one of them out to replace it with the TK50. Anyway, the cables for the drives are the same width as MFM/RLL drives: 34 and 20 pins. This is verified by comparing it directly to a Tandon TM-502. Wasn't ESDI an outgrowth of the ST-506 drives/interface? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 19:21:52 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: <200104062336.RAA32326@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <001501c0bef8$be9cfc60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> ESDI uses a 34-conductor control cable, and a 20-conductor data cable, both similar to what's used on ST506/412. The only widely used interface I know of that actually uses TWO 50-conductor cables is the Pertec controller/formatter interface. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:06 PM Subject: Re: pertec interface > >This sounds more like ESDI to me. If memory serves that was a two > >cable system. > >RLL and MFM were too, now that I think about it, although not 50 pin cables. > >I'm betting ESDI. > > The only true ESDI system, not counting the IBM DBA interface > used in some of the PS/2 series, that I have here is in my MicroVAX > II and it had daul Maxtor XT-8380E's installed. Full height 5-1/4" > drives of 380meg each. I pulled one of them out to replace it with > the TK50. Anyway, the cables for the drives are the same width as > MFM/RLL drives: 34 and 20 pins. This is verified by comparing it > directly to a Tandon TM-502. Wasn't ESDI an outgrowth of the ST-506 > drives/interface? > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 6 19:27:31 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: <000001c0bec7$95e5f960$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: <00f601c0bef9$8924d340$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> I'm sure there are VME cards. Dunno about ISA. O.K. I was able to ID the thing I have. With the AKSystems 9-track I was able to salvage 5 years ago was a "IBEX 101293-01" ISA half card. It looks very simple with only a couple dozen low level chips on it. No MCU certainly. I could really use software if anyone's familliar & has it. John A. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 6 19:37:28 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Ever take a MicroVax through the car wash?? Message-ID: Umm, this story is also something around 20 or more years old, too, based in my recollection in the universal jfvts (Jennings Family Vehicle Time Scale). We had our Volkswagon Quantum then, meaning I was at most 14 or so, and the story was old already, I think I happened in the mid-80's... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Apr 6 19:43:33 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Sun 1 Message-ID: <9e.128c7a37.27ffbcb5@aol.com> In a message dated 4/6/01 5:11:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ecloud@bigfoot.com writes: > Yep that monitor looks a lot like one I have... but mine has a logo > that says "LexiData", I think. It has 10 BNC connectors (separate > sync, and a set of pass-through connectors I guess). > LexiDatas are more of a RGB separate sync monitor. Very similar chassis. I bought and sold one of the Sun 1s in 1988. Got it surplus from a local computer dealer, I think it was a lease return, and sold it for $500 to the computer department of Stanford University. They were still using some of them. Thanks for the pictures. It brought back memories. Paxton Portland, Oregon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 6 19:38:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406162744.029b2e98@208.226.86.129> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 6, 1 04:29:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 792 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010407/1a654f09/attachment.ksh From ecloud at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 6 19:58:09 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Sun 1 In-Reply-To: <9e.128c7a37.27ffbcb5@aol.com>; from Innfogra@aol.com on Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 08:43:33PM -0400 References: <9e.128c7a37.27ffbcb5@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010406175809.N11463@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 08:43:33PM -0400, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/6/01 5:11:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > ecloud@bigfoot.com writes: > > > Yep that monitor looks a lot like one I have... but mine has a logo > > that says "LexiData", I think. It has 10 BNC connectors (separate > > sync, and a set of pass-through connectors I guess). > > > LexiDatas are more of a RGB separate sync monitor. Very similar chassis. What else do you know about it? Is the monitor useful for anything else? What sort of machine is a LexiData? -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From cmcmanis at tutsys.com Fri Apr 6 20:06:51 2001 From: cmcmanis at tutsys.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Qbus board id? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406180235.026f9398@208.226.86.129> Does anyone know what a Kinetic Systems Corp model D1391 dual wide Q-bus board is? It has two 40 pin connectors, they look kind of like the M3107 (8 port async) but they connect to resistor packs so I'm thinking either a parallel port or bus extender. There are several DS8833 chips (Nat'l Semi) and what looks like a CSR switch pack. An M7951 clone perhaps? --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 6 20:32:00 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? Message-ID: <00ae01c0bf04$001abaa0$70799a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >Hello all, I've got a VT340 that is very fuzzy. (blurry) I'd like to try >and refocus it but I don't have the maintenance manual for this terminal. >Does anyone have any suggestions on where to start (well I'm going to start >by seeing if the yoke has slipped backward on the tube neck, but other than >that) The focus pot is part of the flyback as is the HV adjust. I believe the Yoke is bonded on that tube so movement is unlikely. Allison From blstuart at bellsouth.net Fri Apr 6 19:38:16 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 06 Apr 2001 17:49:01 -0500 . <3.0.1.16.20010406174901.395f92d6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: At 09:21 AM 4/6/01 -0600, Richard wrote: >Isn't it great that someone bought the thing and plans to do something other >than tear it down and build a Taco Bell? Yes it is IF the something is of more value than the Taco Bell. Now the trick is to offend everyone equally. With that in mind, I guess that Paul Allen will do something of more value than a Taco Bell whereas whereas I have much less faith that the Microsoft Corporation would. Brian From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 6 22:02:59 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> FWIW there were two of these for sale at the auction at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama this past week. A guy that I know went to the auction and I asked him to try and pick them up for me but I don't know if he did or not. He should be back in a day or two and then I'll know. The point is there's still lots of these old odd machines around if someone is willing to search for them. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 6 22:04:41 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Univac? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010406220441.40270d2e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone know what a Univac 8303 is? It's dates from around 1978. Joe From curt at atari-history.com Fri Apr 6 21:32:07 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> Joe, Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I installed one of those with HPUX 11.3 at GT Interactive in Manhattan back in 95' A damn good and powerful machine. Curt Joe wrote: > FWIW there were two of these for sale at the auction at the Goddard Space > Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama this past week. A guy that I know went > to the auction and I asked him to try and pick them up for me but I don't > know if he did or not. He should be back in a day or two and then I'll > know. The point is there's still lots of these old odd machines around if > someone is willing to search for them. > > Joe From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Apr 6 21:54:27 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: <001501c0bef8$be9cfc60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: IIRC, the 34 conductor control cable has (or may have) a twist in it similiar to a floppy cable, but incompatible. I had a lot of trouble with an ESDI drive that I could get to work. Oddly enough, the floppy drives didn't work either :) clint On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > ESDI uses a 34-conductor control cable, and a 20-conductor data cable, both > similar to what's used on ST506/412. > > The only widely used interface I know of that actually uses TWO 50-conductor > cables is the Pertec controller/formatter interface. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Hellige" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:06 PM > Subject: Re: pertec interface > > > > >This sounds more like ESDI to me. If memory serves that was a two > > >cable system. > > >RLL and MFM were too, now that I think about it, although not 50 pin cables. > > >I'm betting ESDI. > > > > The only true ESDI system, not counting the IBM DBA interface > > used in some of the PS/2 series, that I have here is in my MicroVAX > > II and it had daul Maxtor XT-8380E's installed. Full height 5-1/4" > > drives of 380meg each. I pulled one of them out to replace it with > > the TK50. Anyway, the cables for the drives are the same width as > > MFM/RLL drives: 34 and 20 pins. This is verified by comparing it > > directly to a Tandon TM-502. Wasn't ESDI an outgrowth of the ST-506 > > drives/interface? > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 22:04:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building References: Message-ID: <001f01c0bf0f$8617df60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Weeellll ... It's hard to imagine ANYTHING of less value than another Taco Bell ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building > At 09:21 AM 4/6/01 -0600, Richard wrote: > >Isn't it great that someone bought the thing and plans to do something other > >than tear it down and build a Taco Bell? > > Yes it is IF the something is of more value than the Taco Bell. Now > the trick is to offend everyone equally. With that in mind, I guess > that Paul Allen will do something of more value than a Taco Bell > whereas whereas I have much less faith that the Microsoft > Corporation would. > > Brian > > From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Apr 6 22:01:32 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: OT: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel Message-ID: I am looking for an online reference to help me calculate how much live load (AKA VAXen) I can put on my living room floor. The floor: 2x10's 2 foot on center, approximately 14 foot span (guess, too lazy to measure just yet). 3/4" OSB on top, carpet, 1/2" OSB (to keep the VAX from squishing into the carpet)... The VAX: 1100 lbs of true blue & white BIG IRON! minus whatever I remove for hand transport. Me: 300 lbs of Coca-Cola and Hostess fruit pies :) Clint PS I also want to replace a smallish steel IBeam with a micro-lam, so steel numbers would help too... From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 6 22:21:40 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! References: Message-ID: <3ACE87C4.621D207A@internet1.net> Paul, Can you give me the url for the FAQ? I am having problems with this thing. I can get to the $ prompt, but I can't find anything.... it keeps on telling me that stuff doesn't exist! Maybe it's got something with the DCL prompt. I didn't see anything like that..... I went from the >>> to the $ directly. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Paul Thompson wrote: > > This jogs another memory. I think there might be something in SYSBOOT you > have to change to get SYS$INPUT to be OPA0: (the operator console) so you > get a DCL prompt. > > Definitely one for VMS FAQ. From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 6 21:23:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > Yes it is IF the something is of more value than the Taco Bell. Now > the trick is to offend everyone equally. With that in mind, I guess > that Paul Allen will do something of more value than a Taco Bell > whereas whereas I have much less faith that the Microsoft Corporation > would. I wouldn't worry so much about this. Allen is hardly involved with MS these days, other than owning stock. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 6 22:55:16 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: OT: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel References: Message-ID: <3ACE8FA4.7293EE3D@internet1.net> Only the seriuos collector would be asking this kind of thing :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > I am looking for an online reference to help me calculate how > much live load (AKA VAXen) I can put on my living room floor. > > The floor: 2x10's 2 foot on center, approximately 14 foot > span (guess, too lazy to measure just yet). 3/4" OSB on top, > carpet, 1/2" OSB (to keep the VAX from squishing into the > carpet)... > > The VAX: 1100 lbs of true blue & white BIG IRON! minus > whatever I remove for hand transport. > > Me: 300 lbs of Coca-Cola and Hostess fruit pies :) > > Clint > > PS I also want to replace a smallish steel IBeam with > a micro-lam, so steel numbers would help too... From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 6 23:03:38 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > IIRC, the 34 conductor control cable has (or may have) a twist > in it similiar to a floppy cable, but incompatible. I had a lot > of trouble with an ESDI drive that I could get to work. Oddly > enough, the floppy drives didn't work either :) The twist better be like that for a hard disk or it will not work. More and different leads and different side of the cable. - don > clint > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > ESDI uses a 34-conductor control cable, and a 20-conductor data cable, both > > similar to what's used on ST506/412. > > > > The only widely used interface I know of that actually uses TWO 50-conductor > > cables is the Pertec controller/formatter interface. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeff Hellige" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:06 PM > > Subject: Re: pertec interface > > > > > > > >This sounds more like ESDI to me. If memory serves that was a two > > > >cable system. > > > >RLL and MFM were too, now that I think about it, although not 50 pin cables. > > > >I'm betting ESDI. > > > > > > The only true ESDI system, not counting the IBM DBA interface > > > used in some of the PS/2 series, that I have here is in my MicroVAX > > > II and it had daul Maxtor XT-8380E's installed. Full height 5-1/4" > > > drives of 380meg each. I pulled one of them out to replace it with > > > the TK50. Anyway, the cables for the drives are the same width as > > > MFM/RLL drives: 34 and 20 pins. This is verified by comparing it > > > directly to a Tandon TM-502. Wasn't ESDI an outgrowth of the ST-506 > > > drives/interface? > > > > > > Jeff > > > -- > > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 6 23:08:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: OT: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: <3ACE8FA4.7293EE3D@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Only the seriuos collector would be asking this kind of thing :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > > > I am looking for an online reference to help me calculate how > > much live load (AKA VAXen) I can put on my living room floor. > > > > The floor: 2x10's 2 foot on center, approximately 14 foot > > span (guess, too lazy to measure just yet). 3/4" OSB on top, > > carpet, 1/2" OSB (to keep the VAX from squishing into the > > carpet)... Check out the allowable floor load in the Building Code and see how many pounds/sq.-foot it is built for. - don > > The VAX: 1100 lbs of true blue & white BIG IRON! minus > > whatever I remove for hand transport. > > > > Me: 300 lbs of Coca-Cola and Hostess fruit pies :) > > > > Clint > > > > PS I also want to replace a smallish steel IBeam with > > a micro-lam, so steel numbers would help too... > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 6 23:12:26 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Here the the screen capture of my MicroVax 3400!! In-Reply-To: <3ACE87C4.621D207A@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 06, 2001 10:21:40 PM Message-ID: <200104070412.VAA20272@shell1.aracnet.com> > Can you give me the url for the FAQ? I am having problems with this http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html Also look at the following if you haven't already: http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 6 23:17:01 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <001f01c0bf0f$8617df60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: >Weeellll ... It's hard to imagine ANYTHING of less value than another >Taco Bell Taco Bell Express, powered by MicroSoft. ;) From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 6 23:22:24 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: OT: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: www.efunda.com cheerz John From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 6 23:29:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: pertec interface References: Message-ID: <000b01c0bf1b$5d173c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The twist in the various cables are not a standard feature, but, rather, an IBM-ism cooked up to allow the drives to be jumpered identically, irrespective of their physical unit number assignment, i.e. only on the basis of their position on the cable. My esdi drives work fine on a PC without the twist and in combination with a WD ESDI controller. The twist is in a different position on the cable, and involves a different number of wires, depending on whether it's a floppy or hard disk cable. Of all the various drive types I've fooled with, the ESDI types seemed to work with the least hassle and confusion of any, when put in the PC environment. SCSI was the only type that even came close. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: pertec interface > > IIRC, the 34 conductor control cable has (or may have) a twist > in it similiar to a floppy cable, but incompatible. I had a lot > of trouble with an ESDI drive that I could get to work. Oddly > enough, the floppy drives didn't work either :) > > clint > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > ESDI uses a 34-conductor control cable, and a 20-conductor data cable, both > > similar to what's used on ST506/412. > > > > The only widely used interface I know of that actually uses TWO 50-conductor > > cables is the Pertec controller/formatter interface. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeff Hellige" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:06 PM > > Subject: Re: pertec interface > > > > > > > >This sounds more like ESDI to me. If memory serves that was a two > > > >cable system. > > > >RLL and MFM were too, now that I think about it, although not 50 pin cables. > > > >I'm betting ESDI. > > > > > > The only true ESDI system, not counting the IBM DBA interface > > > used in some of the PS/2 series, that I have here is in my MicroVAX > > > II and it had daul Maxtor XT-8380E's installed. Full height 5-1/4" > > > drives of 380meg each. I pulled one of them out to replace it with > > > the TK50. Anyway, the cables for the drives are the same width as > > > MFM/RLL drives: 34 and 20 pins. This is verified by comparing it > > > directly to a Tandon TM-502. Wasn't ESDI an outgrowth of the ST-506 > > > drives/interface? > > > > > > Jeff > > > -- > > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From kfergaso at swbell.net Sat Apr 7 00:34:38 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 Message-ID: <0GBE003NQNZ30W@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> Hi Curt Vendel, you wrote on 4/6/01 8:32:07 PM: A HP 9000 Model 520 would be roughly 15 years old. I administered a couple about 10 years ago. ran HPUX 5.x. Great systems, reliable. A newer Model 800 series K5xx would be cool to have as well. So, the question is, exactly which model is it? kelly >Joe, > > Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I >installed >one of those with HPUX 11.3 at GT Interactive in Manhattan back in 95' A >damn good and powerful machine. > > >Curt > > > >Joe wrote: > > FWIW there were two of these for sale at the auction at the Goddard >Space > Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama this past week. A guy that I know >went > to the auction and I asked him to try and pick them up for me but I don't > know if he did or not. He should be back in a day or two and then I'll > know. The point is there's still lots of these old odd machines around if > someone is willing to search for them. > > Joe From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Apr 7 00:01:51 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: <00ae01c0bf04$001abaa0$70799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406215732.0213d360@208.226.86.10> At 09:32 PM 4/6/01 -0400, Allison wrote: >The focus pot is part of the flyback as is the HV adjust. I believe the >Yoke >is bonded on that tube so movement is unlikely. Thanks Allison! I got the cover off and found the adjustment side of the terminal (left side looking at it from the front) and the focus is a screw that goes into what looks like an HV transformer. I've adjusted it to be razor sharp, now what do I use to "lock it down" ? What is that stuff that looks like nail polish called? --Chuck From jss at ou.edu Sat Apr 7 00:04:39 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <986619878.3ace9fe7009fd@email.ou.edu> This doesn't seem so OT to me, so I have removed OT from the subject. Quoting "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" : > I am looking for an online reference to help me calculate how > much live load (AKA VAXen) I can put on my living room floor. I have thought about this same subject to prepare for the arrival of my first PDP-11 (boy am I excited!). This is how I came to a ballpark figure. The floor of my future machine room consists of 2.25"-wide wooden slats, of varying lengths (approx. 4'-6'), suspended above a crawlspace. I plan on putting a few layers of plywood (anything better for this?) on top of the floor to help spread the load evenly across the slats. Let's say I want to support 3 rack cabinets. Well, that's a width of 21" * 3 = 63", which, in slats is 63" / 2.25" = 28 slats. If the system weighs 1500 lbs, then that's 1500 lbs / 28 < 54 lbs/slat. I think my slats can handle 54 lbs. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Apr 7 00:17:39 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: <3ACD10D2.D2EBFB0@internet1.net> Message-ID: In response to a few questions - 1) I am considering all offers. No one is out of the running. Many of the bids are very close, so location/ease of moving may make the difference. Be patient, and I will choose eventually (soon). 2) I have quite a few spare for this machine, but they are mostly still in Chicago. 3) Further questions are encouraged - I want to have people know exactly what they are getting into. 4) The IBM stuff is mostly punch card equipment from the 1950s and 60s, but also a very old hard disk (2311) and a mini (1130). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 7 00:23:09 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Re: HP 9000 520 (Curt Vendel) References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. -Dave McGuire On April 6, Curt Vendel wrote: > Joe, > > Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I installed > one of those with HPUX 11.3 at GT Interactive in Manhattan back in 95' A > damn good and powerful machine. > > > Curt > > > > Joe wrote: > > > FWIW there were two of these for sale at the auction at the Goddard Space > > Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama this past week. A guy that I know went > > to the auction and I asked him to try and pick them up for me but I don't > > know if he did or not. He should be back in a day or two and then I'll > > know. The point is there's still lots of these old odd machines around if > > someone is willing to search for them. > > > > Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Apr 7 00:24:29 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406215732.0213d360@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Glyptal, if you can find it anymore.... but unless it is *really* loose, I'd be tempted to just leave it be. The less messing with such stuff, the better. And of course, now you know where the tweak is, it's trivial to adjust it again and then seal it. The problem with sealing is... if some thing in the focus or HV chain is drifiting badly, and you gunk up the focus pot, then, after repairs are effected, you have to un-gunk the control and adjust it yet again. In my experience, sometimes these things don't take too kindly to being messed with a lot. Cheerz John From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Apr 7 00:26:52 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: <986619878.3ace9fe7009fd@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: www.efunda.com (echo... echo... echo...) All of the above strengths of materials and associated calcs are there in a very nice format. In my acoustic design work, I use the site all the time. Some really obscure and hard-to-find data and conversions are listed. Cheerz John From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sat Apr 7 01:13:56 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <3ACE35E7.6912AB4A@heathers.stdio.com> from Brian Roth at "Apr 6, 2001 05:32:23 pm" Message-ID: <20010407061406Z434573-9833+7@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > Just got home with a nice load. Saved it all from the dumpster. > > VAX 11/750 > RA81 - TU80 > VAXstation 4000 VLC > (2) VAXstation 2000 > (2) old Compaq luggables > (2) storage works box's > (2) Control Data Cyber 910's > various DEC/Apple keyboards monitors etc.. > box's DEC cables > more > > All for $120 > > > Any good sites for the CDC box's. I guess they are repackaged SGI? > I have a CDC Cyber 910 running happily here beside me. Its a re-labeled SGI Indigo R3K workstation. As far as I can tell only the labels on the case are different. The standard SGI sites have lots of information on these workstations. Very solid, mine survived airline handling on the trip from Edmonton to Hong Kong. They run IRIX (the SGI version of Unix) up to version 5.3. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 7 01:14:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010406215732.0213d360@208.226.86.10> References: <00ae01c0bf04$001abaa0$70799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >razor sharp, now what do I use to "lock it down" ? What is that stuff that >looks like nail polish called? Nail Polish. From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Apr 7 01:52:18 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Teledisk not working Message-ID: <3ACE80E2.14533.B5C4203@localhost> > > These assholes even claim that: > > > > "TeleDisk was developed to assist the U. S. Treasury Department > > in the processing of computer evidence tied to floppy diskettes." > > > > Does anybody know if this is *true*?! I always thought it was > > developed to distribute software via BBS's (and other electonic > > means). > > I believe it to be 100% false. The story I remember (probably read in > some Sydex documentation) is that Teledisk was written to help support > the CP/M disk reading software (was that called 22disk?). The idea was > that if you had a CP/M disk in a format that wasn't supported by 22disk, > you could use Teledisk to mail an image of the disk to Sydex so they > could attempt to add the format to later versions. > > In any case, teledisk is not that useful for extracting information from > a non-PC disk (which is presumably what the police, etc, would want to > do). I can really see the point of being able to make a copy of a disk > for some machine they don't have. Some program like anadisk, which lets > you read sector-by-sector, make disk images, and so on, would be a lot > more useful to them I would have thought. > > -tony > Someplace among my 5.25 disks I have a zipped early shareware copy of Teledisk that I downloaded from a BBS around 92-93. I remember it had some sort of lame disclaimer to the effect that it was not to be used to circumvent copyright restrictions. I thought at that time it was just a legal cover for their asses and certainly looked like a way around copy-protection. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Apr 7 01:52:18 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: A load of laptops Message-ID: <3ACE80E2.14536.B5C4325@localhost> I was in a local electronic surplus store today and bought some old laptops at what I consider a good price. 2 Grid 1520s, a Grid 1755, a Commodore C386SX, a DEC PCP11, and an External SCSI HD for $75 All lacking power supplies tho. I had power packs for the 1520s and they're both working but one has the same problem that Mike Ford has with his Grids- password protected. It's now sitting unassembled on my work table while I search for the battery to see if shorting or removing that will get rid of the P-W. While I have programs to zap the Award and AMI BIOS' ,unfortunately this is a Phoenix. The Grids all have a socket also for a 16v transformer and it appears to be the same as the DECs 15v so I am looking for either a Grid or DEC transformer. The Commodore has an 8pin mini socket for power and a 16v battery. In examining the 1755 and DEC closer I see that they are identical except for color. Who would have made these for Grid and DEC ? Kyocera ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Apr 7 01:52:18 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: ADB bus and S-video In-Reply-To: <20010406143751.HBCJ703.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: <3ACE80E2.9922.B5C42F3@localhost> As you may remember I'm in Toronto and there are several good surplus stores. When I was in one today they had both ADB and SVHS cords for Can$2 (IIRC) and Mac mice for $10 including some tearshaped ones. Shipping from Toronto to Kingston is not much so I could pick up what isn't available in Kingston for you here. Contact me off-list if you are interested. larry > > > > > I have been using cheap ADB cables for S-video cables in my video work. I > > >> have found all the ADB cables I need for $1 each at the Eugene, Oregon > > >> Goodwill store. > > > >How about mice, do they have those too? > > What about teardrop shaped kind? Most I find are two wedge kind, > these all I have now, would like one. > > > I've rarely had a problem coming up with keyboards and mice > > for Macs, but the cables are a whole different story. > > More power to you!! None of this is like this in kingston, ontario, I > must buy up ADB Macs if cheap enough to get those ADB keyboards I > desire. Rarely locally, looks like I have to do it via Ebay, which > I'm unhappy with canadian/USA exhange rate. > > When I visited rochester NY, I can buy all what I want on Macs parts > at local CR store which I regettably didn't! :-P Which I will not > have chance for long time since my only friend lived there moved out. > > > I've often > > wished that Apple had done like most manufacturers and permenantly > > attached the cable, which they did on their later 'Design' series > > keyboards. > > Oh, I favor deatchable for easier repair and transport. Also comes > out on the sides not on rear so I could shove the keyboard hard > against anything without putting a crimp on the wire that I always > do with peecee keyboards. That's product of my limited space and > move machines around frequently. > > Tip: if you have iffy keyboard and mice that goes out with a wiggle > on ADB connectors, resolder the two connectors where pins goes > through circuit board. I did that on mine. > > > > > Jeff > > Cheers, > > Wizard > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 01:06:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, William Donzelli wrote: > 4) The IBM stuff is mostly punch card equipment from the 1950s and > 60s, but also a very old hard disk (2311) and a mini (1130). Sweet! One certainly does not come across 1130's often (if at all :) Where did you find this one? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 7 04:23:05 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an > overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". Don't forget "vintage" or "retro". Brrr. From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 7 04:39:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Recent Finds In-Reply-To: <200104062105.OAA08275@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > Is VMS supported on such a box? > > > > No, but there are inofficial patches. > > If they're like the Multia patches you're likely to have a problem then as > you pretty much need a system that's already running to build the boot disk. Bugger! > > We've got an entire VMS doc set, but all our TK cartridges seem to be > > Ultrix. Wonder where the software has gone. > > I'm surprised, based on my experiences Ultrix is a LOT harder to find than > VMS. It just laid there when we moved in. Would it be worth running on a DS3100 with mono buffer? From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 7 07:44:47 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: New Finds References: <20010407061406Z434573-9833+7@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3ACF0BBF.5516B4D0@heathers.stdio.com> Mark, Indeed, changing the search to SGI turned up some good sites. I haven't been able to fire these up yet though as the keyboards are missing. A quick call to the place I got them and they were located and are being saved. Still have to scare up a monitor though. Brian. Mark Green wrote: > > I have a CDC Cyber 910 running happily here beside me. Its > a re-labeled SGI Indigo R3K workstation. As far as I can tell > only the labels on the case are different. The standard SGI > sites have lots of information on these workstations. Very > solid, mine survived airline handling on the trip from Edmonton > to Hong Kong. They run IRIX (the SGI version of Unix) up to > version 5.3. > > -- > Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca > McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 > Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) > University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada -- ?????? From dburrows at netpath.net Sat Apr 7 08:07:10 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? Message-ID: <06e701c0bf64$7851de80$0d261bce@L166> Loktite or drip some candle wax on it. Dan >Thanks Allison! I got the cover off and found the adjustment side of the >terminal (left side looking at it from the front) and the focus is a screw >that goes into what looks like an HV transformer. I've adjusted it to be >razor sharp, now what do I use to "lock it down" ? What is that stuff that >looks like nail polish called? > >--Chuck > From at258 at osfn.org Sat Apr 7 09:04:50 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: OT: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 16" spacing would be better than 24, but most houses are built to support 100 # per square foot. What are the dimensions of the vax? If it is 3x8 you're looking at a capacity of about 2400#. On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > I am looking for an online reference to help me calculate how > much live load (AKA VAXen) I can put on my living room floor. > > The floor: 2x10's 2 foot on center, approximately 14 foot > span (guess, too lazy to measure just yet). 3/4" OSB on top, > carpet, 1/2" OSB (to keep the VAX from squishing into the > carpet)... > > The VAX: 1100 lbs of true blue & white BIG IRON! minus > whatever I remove for hand transport. > > Me: 300 lbs of Coca-Cola and Hostess fruit pies :) > > Clint > > PS I also want to replace a smallish steel IBeam with > a micro-lam, so steel numbers would help too... > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 7 08:49:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: A load of laptops In-Reply-To: <3ACE80E2.14536.B5C4325@localhost> Message-ID: > The Grids all have a socket also for a 16v transformer and it appears to >be the same as the DECs 15v so I am looking for either a Grid or DEC >transformer. The Commodore has an 8pin mini socket for power and a >16v battery. > In examining the 1755 and DEC closer I see that they are identical except >for color. Who would have made these for Grid and DEC ? Kyocera ? There is some "basic" surplus site that has both the adapters and battery packs, but they don't have them identified as Grid. Some searching on the Grid support pages should turn them up. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Apr 7 10:20:28 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Curt, First, are we talking about the same machine? I'm talking about the HP 9000 520. Aka 9020. It's a large desktop machine with a built in keyboard and monitor. It looks like a grossly oversized Commodore 64. I think the K 520 is an entirely different machine. Next, I was speaking of old computers in general. Some of people on the list are always complaining about how the internet, E-bay (and now the ex-MITS building computer museum) are driving up the prices of old machines and how they can't afford old computers any more, etc, etc. However I manage to find something interesting nearly everytime that I go looking. I didn't even go out this week but still managed to aquire some HP Integral manauls, a HP documentation index and found the auction listing for the two 9000 520s. Last week I did go looking and found two NICE Kaypros with loads of original disks. The week before that I found an IBM L40SX, IBM P70, a Sun 635 MP, a HP 9000 520, a HP 9836, a HP 9000 series 300 and a HP 9000 835. My point is there are still loads of old computers out there and for cheap prices if anyone is willing to get off their a** and go look! FWIW I do consider the 9000 520 an odd machine. Perhaps unusual would be a better term. I've been collecting HP computers for a good number of years and I've never seen one before. I found (and bought) one a couple of weeks ago. Before that the only person that I know of that actually had one was Frank McConnell. My research indicates that there were a lot 520s used by the US navy and some of it's subcontractors but few elsewhere. Even my contacts at HP tell me that the 520 was problematic and was very late getting into production and was a commercail failure. Despite the large number of them used by the US Navy, very few managed to get into the surplus market. I couldn't find a single surplus dealer that had one or that even knew what they were. Joe At 10:32 PM 4/6/01 -0400, you wrote: >Joe, > > Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I installed >one of those with HPUX 11.3 at GT Interactive in Manhattan back in 95' A >damn good and powerful machine. > > >Curt > > > >Joe wrote: > >> FWIW there were two of these for sale at the auction at the Goddard Space >> Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama this past week. A guy that I know went >> to the auction and I asked him to try and pick them up for me but I don't >> know if he did or not. He should be back in a day or two and then I'll >> know. The point is there's still lots of these old odd machines around if >> someone is willing to search for them. >> >> Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Apr 7 09:53:14 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <001f01c0bf0f$8617df60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010407095314.3b0f0aa8@mailhost.intellistar.net> No, it's not. They could always make it into another McDonalds! Joe At 09:04 PM 4/6/01 -0600, you wrote: >Weeellll ... It's hard to imagine ANYTHING of less value than another Taco Bell >... > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 6:38 PM >Subject: Re: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building > > >> At 09:21 AM 4/6/01 -0600, Richard wrote: >> >Isn't it great that someone bought the thing and plans to do something other >> >than tear it down and build a Taco Bell? >> >> Yes it is IF the something is of more value than the Taco Bell. Now >> the trick is to offend everyone equally. With that in mind, I guess >> that Paul Allen will do something of more value than a Taco Bell >> whereas whereas I have much less faith that the Microsoft >> Corporation would. >> >> Brian >> >> > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Apr 7 09:57:07 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:55 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010407095707.3b0fde5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:23 AM 4/7/01 -0400, Dave wrote: > > I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an >overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". Unfortunately you're correct (with the exception of the i-Macs). I guess that's thanks to the mass merchandising of Win-Blows. > > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. Yeap, you'd better grab the older "good" stuff while you can. Joe From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 09:30:38 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't supplied by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered 'legacy' and basically unsupported. Jeff > I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an >overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". > > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. > > -Dave McGuire -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From peter at joules.org Sat Apr 7 10:16:30 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010407095314.3b0f0aa8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > No, it's not. They could always make it into another McDonalds! > The one 15 miles from us is the only one in 8000 square miles, you mean they aren't that rare everywhere? OBCC - Is there any way in which I can use a 68 pin SCSI drive in my machines which have knackered 50 pin drives? -- Regards Pete From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 10:05:35 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Darn...some mornings I can't type....that should have been 'EDS/NMCI'.... Jeff > Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal >government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't >supplied by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered >'legacy' and basically unsupported. > > Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 10:20:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >OBCC - Is there any way in which I can use a 68 pin SCSI drive in my >machines which have knackered 50 pin drives? There are various converters that plug into the 68pin connector and allow it's use in systems with the 50pin connector. I've seen them for the 80pin drives as well. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Sat Apr 7 10:38:06 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? Message-ID: Screw/bolt locking compound = loctite www.loctite.com Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Sat Apr 7 10:45:37 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 Message-ID: Our hospital now considers any computers less than 300 MHz as "old" and needing to be replaced. Most of our software venders now say that anything less than that is not acceptable for their applications, most also want 64 Mb of memory. Our department still uses 486/33's and WordPerfect 5.1 for word processing and they are very reliable. mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu >From: Dave McGuire >Subject: Re: HP 9000 520 > > I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an >overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". > > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. > > -Dave McGuire From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 7 10:39:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? Message-ID: <000201c0bf79$d0f48e10$e7799a8d@ajp166> >>Thanks Allison! I got the cover off and found the adjustment side of the >>terminal (left side looking at it from the front) and the focus is a screw >>that goes into what looks like an HV transformer. I've adjusted it to be >>razor sharp, now what do I use to "lock it down" ? What is that stuff that >>looks like nail polish called? >> >>--Chuck It might just be nail polish. I often use that as it's handy and available cheap at the corner store. Fashon sense demands I make a point of using leftover last years colors. ;) Allison From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 09:51:44 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > FWIW I do consider the 9000 520 an odd machine. Perhaps unusual > would be a better term. I've been collecting HP computers for a good > number of years and I've never seen one before. I found (and bought) > one a couple of weeks ago. Before that the only person that I know of > that actually had one was Frank McConnell. My research indicates that > there were a lot 520s used by the US navy and some of it's > subcontractors but few elsewhere. Even my contacts at HP tell me that > the 520 was problematic and was very late getting into production and > was a commercail failure. Despite the large number of them used by the > US Navy, very few managed to get into the surplus market. I couldn't > find a single surplus dealer that had one or that even knew what they > were. I fell in nerd love with Frank McConnell's 9000/520 the very first time I saw it (he brought it to VCF 1.0 to exhibit, working and all). I always wanted one, and thanks to Jim Willing who brought one down from the hills for me last year, I now have one :) It is truly a unique beast (and I mean "beast" for real...the thing looks like a big hulking PC on steroids). Have you fired yours up yet Joe? I haven't had time to play with mine yet :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 09:53:48 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010407095314.3b0f0aa8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > No, it's not. They could always make it into another McDonalds! > > Joe > > At 09:04 PM 4/6/01 -0600, you wrote: > >Weeellll ... It's hard to imagine ANYTHING of less value than another > Taco Bell Maybe they'll follow the trend of fast food joints and gas stations co-locating and have the Microsoft/McDonalds Computer Museum...come see and eat a Big Mac! Oh, I slay me. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 09:54:16 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal > government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't supplied > by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered 'legacy' and > basically unsupported. What is ES/NMCI? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 11:09:33 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: Univac? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010406220441.40270d2e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: on 4/6/01 10:04 PM, Joe at rigdonj@intellistar.net wrote: > Does anyone know what a Univac 8303 is? It's dates from around 1978. > > Joe > I could be wrong, but I think it is the UNIVAC 8303 Input/Output Processor (a full computer, despite the name), which seems to have first been produced in the 1960s by Sperry, but supported by Lockheed Martin now. I don't know anything more. Did you get your hands on one? Thanks, Owen From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Apr 7 11:09:34 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 Message-ID: <8d.4df24cf.280095be@aol.com> In a message dated 4/7/01 7:16:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > Despite the large > number of them used by the US Navy, very few managed to get into the > surplus market. I couldn't find a single surplus dealer that had one or > that even knew what they were. I got one shortly before my auction. It was like an overgrown 9845 It was larger and heavier IIRC. and sharper corners. It was one of the first 32 bit integrated workstations. Advertised as a mainframe on the desktop in 1985. Ran HP-UX.. Came with either a B&W or color monitor, 512K byte Ram and a 5 1/4 floppy. You could add a 10 meg HD, internal I think. The 9000 520 also cost $30,000 to $50,000 in 1985. Mine had two HPIB channels. I tried to get it hooked up before the sale but wasn't able to. A local listmember bought it so it is still within the CC list family. It is the only one of those I ever found. Paxton Portland, OR From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Apr 7 11:15:39 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Our minimum client in the hospitals is a 200mhz machine with 32MB, but the day of at least 64 - 128 is fast approaching. The PC folks are attempting to convert to Windows Terminal Services i.e. Metaframe, and have in some areas issued embedded Linux WinTerms to connect to the Metaframe servers in areas where full PC's are not needed. Things go full circle back to the equivalent of DECservers and terminals, without the reliability. I do Unix and VMS but am considered in the same group as the folks who do Metaframe server admin, and my pager is always going off with some quirk or another preventing someone from working or a bunch getting kicked out en mass etc. As far as the recent legacy discussion goes, the rules as defined my M$ and implemented via mgt. inertia were simple at least until recently: Non Win NT/win 2k operating systems = legacy As M$ licensing costs and policies get more draconian it is amusing to watch 'unauthorized' use of the term legacy creep further into Windows territory as more folks consider Linux for embedded applications where they don't wish to deal with licensing embedded m$ products or less often but growing in areas in direct competition to w2k. It could prove beneficial for other non-windows OS's provided the vendors don't screw it up somehow. On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Our hospital now considers any computers less than 300 MHz as "old" and > needing to be replaced. Most of our software venders now say that anything > less than that is not acceptable for their applications, most also want 64 > Mb of memory. > > Our department still uses 486/33's and WordPerfect 5.1 for word processing > and they are very reliable. > > mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > >From: Dave McGuire > >Subject: Re: HP 9000 520 > > > > I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an > >overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". > > > > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our > >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. > > > > -Dave McGuire > > -- From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Apr 7 11:19:30 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Curt Vendel's message of "Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:32:07 -0400" References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <200104071619.f37GJV733810@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Curt Vendel wrote: > Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I But that's different iron, obviously named by someone with no sense of what had gone before, or someone who thought that alphabet soup and a few years would be enough to avoid confusion. The 9000 Series 520 aka 9020 aka 9000 Model 20 was one of the first machines to ship under the 9000 label, a 32-bit (potentially-)multiprocessing stack architecture from 1982. Take a look at for some pictures of an Integral (top) and my 9000/520 (bottom). I think you will agree, it's not what you're thinking of. -Frank McConnell From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 11:29:30 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal >> government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't supplied >> by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered 'legacy' and >> basically unsupported. > >What is ES/NMCI? EDS (my mistype) is Ross Perot's company and they now have a signed contract with the Dept. of Navy to take over the LANs and pretty much every other aspect of computers and thier maintainance. NMCI is the arm of the company doing it. The contract is for an astronimical amount of money and the closest comparison is the Borg: they are coming in, taking all exisiting equipment, replacing it with a 'one size fits all' desktop and charging you handsomely for both the replacement and every little thing you want to do with it. Nobody has a choice in the matter either...like it or not, they will be assimilated. NMCI has dubbed themselves the 'NMCI Strike Force' and they think they're going to do all troubleshooting over the phone. The contract was pushed through relatively quietly and caught a whole lot of higher-up types off guard and not much has been said about it in the normal papers and such either. This one with the Navy is just the first step...eventually it will spread to nearly all branches, not just DOD, though the Air Force has said that at least for the moment they have no intention of going that route. Ever wonder what the real reason for Ross Perot stepping down from the Presidential race was? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Apr 7 11:48:08 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: OT: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have some recent experience with putting something fairly massive onto a residential floor. As part of the kitchen remodel we're installing an Aga cooker, which is just under 1300 pounds spread evenly over roughly a 5x3 foot area -- that "evenly" bit is important; there are no point loads as opposed to what you might expect from the feet on bays (or even the rails resting directly on the floor). According to the manufacturer, the floor loading is "usually" acceptable if the Aga is installed immediately adjacent to a load bearing wall. In our case it's installed against _two_ foundation sills, thanks to the weird seismic codes we have (which, in fact, more or less assure that homes will be torn apart in a major event, but that's another story) the unsupported span for the beams is only about ten feet. This is a recent construction home with beams on 16" centers, with the back end of the load essentially resting on a foundation sill -- and the engineers freaked. It was necessary to install additional piers and an additional beam parallel to the front of the cooker before they'd issue our permits. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From emu at ecubics.com Sat Apr 7 12:00:08 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape References: Message-ID: <3ACF4798.AF13E7FB@ecubics.com> Hi, I have rd54 & rx50 & tk70 in a system running rt11 5.4 How can I make an bootable backup tape of the system drive ? cheers & thanks, emanuel From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Apr 7 11:59:05 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: EDS (was RE: HP 9000 520) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeff Hellige wrote: >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal >> government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't supplied >> by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered 'legacy' and >> basically unsupported. > >What is ES/NMCI? EDS (my mistype) is Ross Perot's company and they now have a signed contract with the Dept. of Navy to take over the LANs [Accurate representation of how delightful it is to work with EDS, snipped] I was (and am) involved with the deployment of code to UBS/WDR/whatever they're calling themselves today, which is another shop that outsourced "operations" to EDS. The people at UBS hate it. The vendors hate it. In fact the only people who seem to like it are the EDS drones, who work 9 - 4:59, five days a week. Some EDS policies we've collided with: - "We reboot all Unix servers once a week. This makes our NT servers more reliable, so obviously it will do the same for older technology like Solaris". - "We can't accept this Microsoft-signed DLL that's distributed with VS as a bug fix because it's not part of our standard distribution". - "We can't supply you with an 800 MHz machine for these floating point intensive jobs of yours. We'll give you a dual 400 MHz instead. What do you mean 'individual floating point instructions don't benefit from multithreading'? You must not understand multithreading." Most people at UBS have already started hording torches and pitchforks for the day that the contract expires... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 7 12:07:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > First, are we talking about the same machine? I'm talking about the HP > 9000 520. Aka 9020. It's a large desktop machine with a built in keyboard > and monitor. It looks like a grossly oversized Commodore 64. I think the K > 520 is an entirely different machine. Are there any other similar HP machines? I've seen such a beast at a mate's, but I could be mistaken. It had several cartridge ports, IIRC. > Next, I was speaking of old computers in general. Some of people on the > list are always complaining about how the internet, E-bay (and now the > ex-MITS building computer museum) are driving up the prices of old machines > and how they can't afford old computers any more, etc, etc. However I > manage to find something interesting nearly everytime that I go looking. I > didn't even go out this week but still managed to aquire some HP Integral > manauls, a HP documentation index and found the auction listing for the two > 9000 520s. Last week I did go looking and found two NICE Kaypros with loads > of original disks. The week before that I found an IBM L40SX, IBM P70, a > Sun 635 MP, a HP 9000 520, a HP 9836, a HP 9000 series 300 and a HP 9000 > 835. My point is there are still loads of old computers out there and for > cheap prices if anyone is willing to get off their a** and go look! I don't believe that's the case where I'm at. I don't know where old machines go here, but I suppose a lot of them have either wound up in the collections of the academic computer clubs and their members, or gone to the "recycling" plants. There even doesn't seem to be that many collectors over here. Then again, I'm not the kind who likes stealing or begging. I'm such a coward, I won't take chances. From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 7 12:07:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Darn...some mornings I can't type....that should have been > 'EDS/NMCI'.... And what is that? From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 7 12:12:10 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <200104071619.f37GJV733810@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 7 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > Curt Vendel wrote: > > Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I > > But that's different iron, obviously named by someone with no sense of > what had gone before, or someone who thought that alphabet soup and a > few years would be enough to avoid confusion. The sounds similar. Even 3Com, a company which I usually respect, have managed to erase all traces of the EtherLink/SE for the Mac SE which they once made, and have since assigned its number to some PCMCIA card. Way to go! From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Apr 7 12:25:04 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: Charging Laptop (and other)batteries In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010405235636.3bdf222e@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3ACCF371.24666.54B8365@localhost> Message-ID: <3ACF1530.21383.D9FA971@localhost> Thanks Joe and Tony. A further question is that some of the laptop batteries have double positive and negative connection plates. Where these just to ensure a good connection or are they actually 2 separate circuits. e.g. 2 6v in a 12 v pack ? larry > At 10:36 PM 4/5/01 -0400, larry wrote: > > This is likely elementary but many times I run across the encased laptop > >and other function(eg cordless drills) batteries. Of course each has it's > own proprietory > >charger which have long since disappeared and are costly to replace as > well as being > >device and company specific . Many of them have a 3rd terminal. What was > it's > >purpose. > > Can you recharge these batteries simply by rigging up an interface using > appropriate > >voltages and polarity ? How would you deal with the 3rd terminal ? > > > > > > Larry, > > I'm assuming that your talking about NiCad batteries. If so, the third > terminal is usually connected back to the * battery terminal via a thermal > switch. The third terminal is used to recharge the batteries at a high > current rate (Quick Charge). The thermal switch has to be in the circuit to > prevent the batteries over heating and being damaged by the high current. You > can go ahead charge the batteries at a normal 1/10 C (or lower) rate via the > third terminal or the normal * terminal. The batteries will also last a lot > longer if they're charged at 1/10 C instead "Quick Charged". The charge voltage > isn't critical in NiCads but the charging current is important. > > Joe > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Apr 7 12:18:18 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:20:28 -0500" References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <200104071718.f37HIIW35302@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > FWIW I do consider the 9000 520 an odd machine. Perhaps unusual would be > a better term. I've been collecting HP computers for a good number of years > and I've never seen one before. I found (and bought) one a couple of weeks > ago. Before that the only person that I know of that actually had one was > Frank McConnell. My research indicates that there were a lot 520s used by > the US navy and some of it's subcontractors but few elsewhere. Even my > contacts at HP tell me that the 520 was problematic and was very late > getting into production and was a commercail failure. Despite the large > number of them used by the US Navy, very few managed to get into the > surplus market. I couldn't find a single surplus dealer that had one or > that even knew what they were. The 9000/500 may have been a commercial failure, but HP learned a lot from it -- its I/O bus (later known as CIO I think) was adopted by the PA-RISC 9000/800 (and 3000/900) machines. I expect this meant the machines had trade-in value for their I/O cards (as well as the gold and copper in the CPU, IOP, and memory cards, which are all surprisingly heavy from the copper core and shiny from the characteristic HP gold plating). The packaging is interesting, especially on the CPU/IOP/memory cards: the boards don't have sockets for the ICs. Instead, there is a cavity in the non-conductive board material, exposing the copper sheet at the core of the board. The IC substrate is bound to this copper core, and its bond-out wires are soldered to the traces on the board. Then a lid is fitted over the cavity(ies) to protect the ICs and bond-out wires. This was done to carry heat away from the ICs, which ran from a 16MHz clock and did a pretty good job of turning electricity into heat. It was also HP's first entry into the Unix market. The 520 could also be a BASIC workstation (a high-powered multiprocessor replacement for the 9845!) but I have not seen any configured that way. It was also HP's last big stack machine, or at least the last one that made it to market. (Maybe Lee Courtney can tell us more about Vision.) HP contracted with The Wollongong Group to provide TCP/IP transport and application software for HP-UX v5 on these in the mid-to-late 1980s. I started working at TWG in 1989, by which time engineering support for the product was over, and soon found that from their point of view, 9000s and 3000s were all the same and so I got to support that product as well. That was my first introduction to it. Then I found the FOCUS machine instruction set manual in TWG's library. Oh my. It's a 32-bit stack machine, sort of a big 3000. Oh my. Then I got to investigating a remsh crash that took me deep into the kernel. That was how I became a TCP/IP stack internals kind of guy. My memories are dim and distant (TWG ended support for the 9000/500s in early 1994 I think, due to no sales and no contract renewals), but most of the customers I talked to were either US military or contractors. Its Unix port has some oddities. It was ported on top of another HP OS called SUNOS that provided low-level generic services to both BASIC and HP-UX, and the AT&T filesystem was layered on top of an HP filesystem structure called Structured Directory Format or SDF. SDF makes itself visible by the absence of . and .. in directories -- ls and open() will fake them as needed, but if your code opens the directory and reads it they aren't there! I don't think it has the concept of partitioning a disc into multiple filesystems: one disc volume is one filesystem, no way around it. Swap space is taken as needed from whatever free space is available on at least the / volume, maybe others too. Strange but nice in its own way. -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 11:32:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <8d.4df24cf.280095be@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I got one shortly before my auction. It was like an overgrown 9845 It was > larger and heavier IIRC. and sharper corners. It was one of the first 32 bit > integrated workstations. Advertised as a mainframe on the desktop in 1985. > Ran HP-UX.. Came with either a B&W or color monitor, 512K byte Ram and a 5 > 1/4 floppy. You could add a 10 meg HD, internal I think. The 9000 520 also > cost $30,000 to $50,000 in 1985. > > Mine had two HPIB channels. I tried to get it hooked up before the sale but > wasn't able to. A local listmember bought it so it is still within the CC > list family. It is the only one of those I ever found. This is the one I ended up with (Jim bought it and then sold it to me :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 7 12:41:55 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape Message-ID: <004501c0bf8b$7fd3cc00$e7799a8d@ajp166> Same way you would for floppy only slower. I'd make a bootable floppy first and put the DU/MU drivers on it plus anything else you need as RX50 is has enough room for a useable system. Then I think, you need DUP and BUP on there. I have the capability but I backup to RL02 as it's much faster. Also that RD54 (159mb) will likely be partitioned into 5 drives as RT-11 can only address up to 32mb disks. Allison From: emanuel stiebler >I have rd54 & rx50 & tk70 in a system running rt11 5.4 > >How can I make an bootable backup tape of the system drive ? > >cheers & thanks, >emanuel > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 7 12:48:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: pertec interface In-Reply-To: <000b01c0bf1b$5d173c80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 6, 1 10:29:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1478 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010407/aaa7e9bd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 7 12:52:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Apr 7, 1 01:23:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 925 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010407/296654e6/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Sat Apr 7 13:04:11 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3ACF569B.EE3F248E@atari-history.com> Hi Joe, Ah, my mistake, I thought you were referring to the HP 9000 K520 series which is not that old, sorry. Curt Joe wrote: > Curt, > > First, are we talking about the same machine? I'm talking about the HP > 9000 520. Aka 9020. It's a large desktop machine with a built in keyboard > and monitor. It looks like a grossly oversized Commodore 64. I think the K > 520 is an entirely different machine. > > Next, I was speaking of old computers in general. Some of people on the > list are always complaining about how the internet, E-bay (and now the > ex-MITS building computer museum) are driving up the prices of old machines > and how they can't afford old computers any more, etc, etc. However I > manage to find something interesting nearly everytime that I go looking. I > didn't even go out this week but still managed to aquire some HP Integral > manauls, a HP documentation index and found the auction listing for the two > 9000 520s. Last week I did go looking and found two NICE Kaypros with loads > of original disks. The week before that I found an IBM L40SX, IBM P70, a > Sun 635 MP, a HP 9000 520, a HP 9836, a HP 9000 series 300 and a HP 9000 > 835. My point is there are still loads of old computers out there and for > cheap prices if anyone is willing to get off their a** and go look! > > FWIW I do consider the 9000 520 an odd machine. Perhaps unusual would be > a better term. I've been collecting HP computers for a good number of years > and I've never seen one before. I found (and bought) one a couple of weeks > ago. Before that the only person that I know of that actually had one was > Frank McConnell. My research indicates that there were a lot 520s used by > the US navy and some of it's subcontractors but few elsewhere. Even my > contacts at HP tell me that the 520 was problematic and was very late > getting into production and was a commercail failure. Despite the large > number of them used by the US Navy, very few managed to get into the > surplus market. I couldn't find a single surplus dealer that had one or > that even knew what they were. > > Joe > > At 10:32 PM 4/6/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Joe, > > > > Old Odd Machine??? The HP 9000 K520 isn't that terribly old, I > installed > >one of those with HPUX 11.3 at GT Interactive in Manhattan back in 95' A > >damn good and powerful machine. > > > > > >Curt > > > > > > > >Joe wrote: > > > >> FWIW there were two of these for sale at the auction at the Goddard Space > >> Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama this past week. A guy that I know went > >> to the auction and I asked him to try and pick them up for me but I don't > >> know if he did or not. He should be back in a day or two and then I'll > >> know. The point is there's still lots of these old odd machines around if > >> someone is willing to search for them. > >> > >> Joe > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 7 12:57:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Apr 7, 1 01:24:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1398 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010407/025e38d0/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Sat Apr 7 13:09:09 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape References: <004501c0bf8b$7fd3cc00$e7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3ACF57C5.519FF560@ecubics.com> ajp166 wrote: > > Same way you would for floppy only slower. ;-) > I'd make a bootable floppy first and put the DU/MU drivers > on it plus anything else you need as RX50 is has enough room for > a useable system. Then I think, you need DUP and BUP on there. > I have the capability but I backup to RL02 as it's much faster. My intention was to get rid of the floppy drive. (And get a smaller system this way) What I was (probably ;-) really asking, if there is anything like the BRU & SAVESET combination we know from RSX11. Cheers, emanuel From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 13:08:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape In-Reply-To: <004501c0bf8b$7fd3cc00$e7799a8d@ajp166> References: <004501c0bf8b$7fd3cc00$e7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Here's a question somewhat related. As mentioned previously, I had two Maxtor XT-8380E hard disks in my MicroVAX II, but removed one of them to put the TK-50 in the machine. I've never gotten the TK-50 working correctly though and would like to use the second hard disk to back up the data that's on the one that is still in the machine. It is running VMS 4.6. What is the best way of mirroring the first drive on the second, regardless of what might be on the second? I'll likely pull the second drive back out after copying the data over to it. Without any kind of media or a working TK-50, this is really the only option I have for backing up the data and restoring it in case of a problem later on. Jeff >Same way you would for floppy only slower. > >I'd make a bootable floppy first and put the DU/MU drivers >on it plus anything else you need as RX50 is has enough room for >a useable system. Then I think, you need DUP and BUP on there. >I have the capability but I backup to RL02 as it's much faster. > >Also that RD54 (159mb) will likely be partitioned into 5 drives >as RT-11 can only address up to 32mb disks. > >Allison > >From: emanuel stiebler >>I have rd54 & rx50 & tk70 in a system running rt11 5.4 >> >>How can I make an bootable backup tape of the system drive ? >> >>cheers & thanks, >>emanuel >> -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 7 13:07:42 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: Charging Laptop (and other)batteries In-Reply-To: <3ACF1530.21383.D9FA971@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Apr 7, 1 01:25:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010407/aa7e9e41/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Sat Apr 7 13:15:58 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: Message-ID: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Hi Everyone, Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to the gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything matched up and organized. I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed some slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so forth, I will try to make sure every system comes with all the necessary CD's, disks and so forth. There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would say it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, speak now for them. I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono turbo stations. Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) Curt From west at tseinc.com Sat Apr 7 13:21:42 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: classiccmp list & archives info Message-ID: <003b01c0bf8f$9990b500$9e8953d1@fozzie> We spent a lot of time testing the classiccmp mailing list - couldn't find a single problem. There were one or two people who said they were getting the digests twice, but they never gave me details. The only thing I can think of, is that they were having problems with their pop mail session to their ISP? If you start to download your mailbox of say 50 messages, and the connection is lost (not the internet connection, but the pop session), the server will re-transmit the entire batch so you'll keep getting those messages over again until a complete sucessful download occurs - then it will mark them as deleted on the server end. Again, this would be an issue with the ISP, not us. If anyone still has problems or can supply further details, please let me know. Several bugs were found in the list archives at www.classiccmp.org and these have all been fixed to the best of my knowledge. If anyone sees anything further, please let me know asap. Regards, Jay West From west at tseinc.com Sat Apr 7 13:24:12 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: available at surplus store Message-ID: <004101c0bf8f$f2ae1f60$9e8953d1@fozzie> Browsing the surplus stores today - came across three things I don't have any interest in... maybe someone does - if so, email me. Calcomp 1034 (Or was it 1038?) plotter. This thing is BIG. Appears to be in good cosmetic shape, have no idea if it works or not. AT&T PC 6300 Something called an AT&T 6386 (or something like that) WGS. Noticed a few recent posts on the list about this machine too. Jay West From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Apr 7 12:55:54 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: OT EDS (was Re: HP 9000 520) In-Reply-To: Jeff Hellige's message of "Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:29:30 -0400" References: Message-ID: <200104071755.f37Hts736493@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jeff Hellige wrote: > EDS (my mistype) is Ross Perot's company and they now have a > signed contract with the Dept. of Navy to take over the LANs and > pretty much every other aspect of computers and thier maintainance. > NMCI is the arm of the company doing it. The contract is for an > astronimical amount of money and the closest comparison is the Borg: > they are coming in, taking all exisiting equipment, replacing it with > a 'one size fits all' desktop and charging you handsomely for both > the replacement and every little thing you want to do with it. Y'all might want to wander over to alt.tasteless and look for a thread titled something like "Near Ape Shit At Work Today". Seems someone did not like his Mac being replaced and so attacked the EDS staffer(s) who came to do the deed with a hacksaw. However he was not successful. -Frank McConnell From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Apr 7 13:42:13 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <00ef01c0bf92$77866240$7a711fd1@default> Put me down for 1 and zip is 55110. Thanks John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 1:15 PM Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! > Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to the > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > matched up and organized. > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed some > slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step > 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so forth, I > will try to make sure every system comes with all the necessary CD's, > disks and so forth. > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would say > it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, speak > now for them. > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono > turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > > Curt > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 13:35:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! In-Reply-To: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> References: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: Hi Curt, I've never heard back from you concerning whether or not I was inline for the second cube, but based on what you've written below, I'm going to assume you're keeping both of them then? If so, I'd be interested in one of the complete laser printers, hopefully with trays, as well as any NeXT application CD's, such as SoftPC or just about anything else. Thanks Jeff >Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to the >gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, >mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything >matched up and organized. > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed some >slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step >3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so forth, I >will try to make sure every system comes with all the necessary CD's, >disks and so forth. > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would say >it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, speak >now for them. > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus >shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look >like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono >turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get >owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other >cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go >lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > >Curt -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mac at Wireless.Com Sat Apr 7 13:35:44 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, can you please tell me more about the IBM stuff, or where I can find out more about it? Thanks! -Mike On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, William Donzelli wrote: > In response to a few questions - > > 1) I am considering all offers. No one is out of the running. Many of the > bids are very close, so location/ease of moving may make the difference. > Be patient, and I will choose eventually (soon). > > 2) I have quite a few spare for this machine, but they are mostly still > in Chicago. > > 3) Further questions are encouraged - I want to have people know exactly > what they are getting into. > > 4) The IBM stuff is mostly punch card equipment from the 1950s and 60s, but > also a very old hard disk (2311) and a mini (1130). > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From west at tseinc.com Sat Apr 7 13:37:52 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 2000 TSB status update Message-ID: <006501c0bf91$db97dda0$9e8953d1@fozzie> At long last, the 7900A drive is working reliably - and passes all diagnostics. The dual 2100 cpus are fully tested, as is the processor interconnect kit. The last major peripheral I have to get up and running is my 7970E tape drive - that's being worked on right now. Soon as that's done - I can start loading the HP2000 Access TSB operating system. After that system is up, I'll then build an HP2000E system using a 21MX cpu instead; all parts are on-hand for that. Items I'm still looking for desparately: The HP2000 IOP firmware for the 21MX cpu's (I have the firmware for 2100's, but need it for the 21MX's). Need the diags for the 7970E on paper tape, the newer version that uses the diagnostic configurator (have 7970E diags, but they're the old non-configurator style). System operators guide for 2000E (Al? Eric??, Bob Curtis wants his manual!!). From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 7 13:44:57 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape Message-ID: <006501c0bf93$e92026b0$e7799a8d@ajp166> From: emanuel stiebler >> I'd make a bootable floppy first and put the DU/MU drivers >> on it plus anything else you need as RX50 is has enough room for >> a useable system. Then I think, you need DUP and BUP on there. >> I have the capability but I backup to RL02 as it's much faster. > >My intention was to get rid of the floppy drive. (And get a smaller >system this way) >What I was (probably ;-) really asking, >if there is anything like the BRU & SAVESET combination we know >from RSX11. I thought I mentioned BUP, yes it did. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 7 13:43:31 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape Message-ID: <006401c0bf93$e8a2e060$e7799a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > Here's a question somewhat related. As mentioned previously, >I had two Maxtor XT-8380E hard disks in my MicroVAX II, but removed >one of them to put the TK-50 in the machine. I've never gotten the >TK-50 working correctly though and would like to use the second hard >disk to back up the data that's on the one that is still in the >machine. It is running VMS 4.6. What is the best way of mirroring >the first drive on the second, regardless of what might be on the >second? I'll likely pull the second drive back out after copying the >data over to it. Without any kind of media or a working TK-50, this >is really the only option I have for backing up the data and >restoring it in case of a problem later on. Easy run INIT the target disk and run standalone backup with /image from dua0: to duan: I generally do that. You can close the OS that way too but only if you dont fully configure it first. Run HELP for details. Allison Allison From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Apr 7 15:01:24 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape References: <004501c0bf8b$7fd3cc00$e7799a8d@ajp166> <3ACF57C5.519FF560@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3ACF6404.7AA2F2A5@idirect.com> >emanuel stiebler wrote: > ajp166 wrote: > > Same way you would for floppy only slower.;-) Jerome Fine replies: When I first read your request, I was going to answer with one minor change. I would add the word: MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCH between only any slower. Especially for the TK50. In fact, the first and last time I tried a backup to the TK50 of a full RT-11 partition, it took about 19 minutes to write the partition. During the "VERIFY" portion, it was still going after an hour when I stopped it. A TK70 is much faster - actually reasonable - if you have the TK70 tapes which are identical to the TK50 tapes AFTER they have been bulk erased or never used. By the way, I though that TK50 came with a somewhat later version of RT-11, not with "V5.04 blank", but I could be mistaken. And try and use the TK70 before you assume it works with your version of RT-11 although it does work VERY well with V5.06 of RT-11. > > I'd make a bootable floppy first and put the DU/MU drivers > > on it plus anything else you need as RX50 is has enough room for > > a useable system. Then I think, you need DUP and BUP on there. > > I have the capability but I backup to RL02 as it's much faster. > My intention was to get rid of the floppy drive. (And get a smaller > system this way) > What I was (probably ;-) really asking, > if there is anything like the BRU & SAVESET combination we know > from RSX11. > Cheers, > emanuel A word of advice. KEEP the floppy as your PRIMARY recovery drive with a minimum RT-11 system. Then use it to format the RD54 with ZRQC?? with XXDP as well as to recover files on the TK50/TK70. If necessary, put a long cable on the RX50 and keep it outside the BA23, but don't give it up. The TK50 may be a large capacity, but it is VERY slow. The TK70 is very acceptable, but probably not usable under "V5.04 blank" of RT-11. But in every case, making a bootable tape is not as useful as using BUP and backing up the files in large groups. If you want more information, please ask. By the way, why are you using RT-11? And to confirm the version, what are the dates on the distributed RT-11 monitors? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 7 14:12:34 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Re: HP 9000 520 (Joe) References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> <3.0.1.16.20010407095707.3b0fde5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <15055.26274.604336.554470@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 7, Joe wrote: > > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our > >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. > > Yeap, you'd better grab the older "good" stuff while you can. What about the NEWER "good" stuff? It seems that Bill Gates has the world convinced that PeeCees are the only computers that are currently produced, and that everything else is discontinued. It's gotten to the point where, on current (or relatively recent) hardware, the questions I hear from people speak of them in the past tense..."what os DID they run?" or "what WAS their list price?"...even for machines whihch are being sold brand-new today, but just aren't crappy "more MEGAHURTS!" Intel toys. -Dave McGuire From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Apr 7 14:21:13 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: EDS In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Apr 7, 2001 12:29:30 pm" Message-ID: <200104071921.f37JLEs16632@bg-tc-ppp1160.monmouth.com> > NMCI has dubbed themselves the 'NMCI Strike Force' > and they think they're going to do all troubleshooting over the > phone. The contract was pushed through relatively quietly and caught > a whole lot of higher-up types off guard and not much has been said > about it in the normal papers and such either. This one with the > Navy is just the first step...eventually it will spread to nearly all > branches, not just DOD, though the Air Force has said that at least > for the moment they have no intention of going that route. > > Ever wonder what the real reason for Ross Perot stepping down > from the Presidential race was? > > Jeff Welcome to the real world. 8-) BTW -- Ross Perot gave up control of EDS about 10 years ago in a stock and control battle with GM. What you're describing is the exact kind of stuff that goes on since the financial folks began taking control of IS departments everywhere including Lucent Technologies who outsourced to IBM Global Services in a 10 year no cut guarantee contract from hell. I worked for IBMGS elsewhere as a Unix Sysadmin... I've only seen a disaster like your description at Lucent. The problem is IBM and EDS guarantee to control the IS cost structure and put in place controlls over things like upgrading without testing software... and wild developers changing on-line computer systems every day breaking the business systems... But they also strangle innovation with a bureaucracy from hell run by non-techie finance types. The name of the game these days is cost containment. I could tell you horror stories. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 14:26:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: bootable rt11 tape In-Reply-To: <006401c0bf93$e8a2e060$e7799a8d@ajp166> References: <006401c0bf93$e8a2e060$e7799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Thanks Allison, I'll give that a try. My 'Introduction to VAX/VMS' (DEC, Sept. 1984, VAX/VMS 4.0) doesn't go into those type of commands. Jeff >Easy run INIT the target disk and run standalone backup with /image >from dua0: to duan: I generally do that. You can close the OS that >way too but only if you dont fully configure it first. Run HELP for >details. -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 14:43:06 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: EDS In-Reply-To: <200104071921.f37JLEs16632@bg-tc-ppp1160.monmouth.com> References: <200104071921.f37JLEs16632@bg-tc-ppp1160.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >I worked for IBMGS elsewhere as a Unix Sysadmin... >I've only seen a disaster like your description at Lucent. The problem >is IBM and EDS guarantee to control the IS cost structure and put in >place controlls over things like upgrading without testing software... >and wild developers changing on-line computer systems every day >breaking the business systems... But they also strangle innovation >with a bureaucracy from hell run by non-techie finance types. One can only imagine then what implementing that type of model on a scale like that of the Federal Government will come out looking like. Even if it's 'just' the DOD/DON LANs at this stage, that's still a pretty massive scale. The truly scary part of it is that when the reps of NMCI are asked questions during user's meettings, they rarely have any kind of answers or a long term plan. It's interesting hearing of Admirals losing their cool and cussing the reps out during these meetings. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 7 14:44:22 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: classiccmp list & archives info Message-ID: <008001c0bf9c$529d5560$e7799a8d@ajp166> From: Jay West >Several bugs were found in the list archives at www.classiccmp.org and these >have all been fixed to the best of my knowledge. If anyone sees anything >further, please let me know asap. Jay, the email address for me is changed. I was getting burried in UCE/SPAM so the replacement is kb1gmx@qsl.net. Allison From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 7 14:55:44 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:56 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3ACF70BF.C61F365F@heathers.stdio.com> Curt, I was one of the early contenters for a slab and monitor. Still want one. Zip 14008. Thanks, Brian. Curt Vendel wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to the > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > matched up and organized. > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed some > slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step > 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so forth, I > will try to make sure every system comes with all the necessary CD's, > disks and so forth. > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would say > it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, speak > now for them. > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono > turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > Curt -- ?????? From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 13:45:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: classiccmp list & archives info In-Reply-To: <003b01c0bf8f$9990b500$9e8953d1@fozzie> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jay West wrote: > Several bugs were found in the list archives at www.classiccmp.org and > these have all been fixed to the best of my knowledge. If anyone sees > anything further, please let me know asap. Jay, Any chance the archives can be made up to date and kept updated in realtime? It's a valuable resource for research. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jrasite at eoni.com Sat Apr 7 15:04:32 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3ACF72C9.E9A025AF@eoni.com> Curt, Where do we send the funds? Jim Curt Vendel wrote: > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono > turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > Curt From curt at atari-history.com Sat Apr 7 15:08:37 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> <00ef01c0bf92$77866240$7a711fd1@default> Message-ID: <002901c0bf9e$886c97d0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> John, You got it, will set one aside for you, just give me a fews days to get back to you. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Keys Jr." To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: Re: The NeXT's have been saved!!! > Put me down for 1 and zip is 55110. Thanks John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt Vendel" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 1:15 PM > Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to > the > > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > > matched up and organized. > > > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed > some > > slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step > > 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so > forth, I > > will try to make sure every system comes with all the necessary CD's, > > disks and so forth. > > > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would > say > > it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, > speak > > now for them. > > > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice > look > > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all > mono > > turbo stations. > > > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets > get > > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the > other > > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to > go > > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > > From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 7 15:13:19 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, John Lawson wrote: > > Glyptal, if you can find it anymore.... but unless it is *really* loose, > I'd be tempted to just leave it be. The less messing with such stuff, the > better. > > And of course, now you know where the tweak is, it's trivial to adjust > it again and then seal it. The problem with sealing is... if some thing > in the focus or HV chain is drifiting badly, and you gunk up the focus > pot, then, after repairs are effected, you have to un-gunk the control and > adjust it yet again. In my experience, sometimes these things don't take > too kindly to being messed with a lot. Well, maybe. In a case like this, the better approach is to apply just a dot of glyptal (or nail polish, for that matter) to one side of the adjustment rather than 'paving it over'. That way any required future adjustments need only to crack the dot rather than remove it altogether. - don > Cheerz > > John > > > > > From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Apr 7 15:16:09 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: TI59 Annotations aviable (For hardware diagrams) Message-ID: <001001c0bf9f$95d2cf60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hi Folks ( This info was also posted on the ODDCALCS list) ------ An Update on the TI59/58 Information --------- I've completed a preliminary version of the annotation files for the TI59/58 Hardware Diagrams I've also dedicated part of my homesite for this topic. http://xgistor.ath.cx TI59 hardware page: Go Vintage Computers >> TI59 Programmable Calculator Hardware TI59 hardware files: Go Files >> Various Downloadable files >> TI59 Regards Sipke de Wal From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Apr 7 16:54:41 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hi, can you please tell me more about the IBM stuff, or where I can find > out more about it? Thanks! -Mike The IBM stuff consists of some channel-connected readers and punches (S/360 stuff), as well as some stand alone "unit record" equipment. The disk is an S/360 era model, requiring the use of a 2841 control unit (I will be looking for one of those) for channel connection. The mini is an 1130 system (more properly an 1131), and could be called IBM's PDP-8. The best place to learn about older IBM equipment is to get the books recently published by the MIT Press. One is called "IBMs Early Computers" and the other is "IBMs System 360 and Early 370 Computers". They are out of print, but can be found with a little looking. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Apr 7 16:56:09 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Sweet! One certainly does not come across 1130's often (if at all :) > Where did you find this one? Ironically, this IBM was once offered on this list, albeit a couple of years ago. It came out of New York. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Apr 7 17:05:46 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: ESDI drives Message-ID: <10104072305.ZM3785@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Tony is (almost) correct: ESDI drives use a binary select scheme similar to SCSI. The three select bits are decoded to enable drives 1,2,...,6,7. There's no "drive 0" because that corresponds to the "deselect all drives" condition. However, some PC controllers only support two drives (another legacy of the IBM PC BIOS) and of course they use drives 1 and 2. Therefore, some PC manufacturers suggest using a cable with a twist, to swap pins 26 and 28 (DS1 and DS2), leaving the select jumpers the same on both drives. I've never seen a cable with a twist on a "real" ESDI system. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 7 17:31:02 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: ESDI drives In-Reply-To: <10104072305.ZM3785@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Apr 7, 1 10:05:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1059 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010407/475e4d7e/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 7 17:42:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! In-Reply-To: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> from Curt Vendel at "Apr 7, 1 02:15:58 pm" Message-ID: <200104072242.PAA12012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono > turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) Put me down for a slab, keyboard/mouse/OS/etc and monitor, to zip code 92350. Thanks! :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "The Internet is, once again, your friend" (I wrote this *before* PacBell!) From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Apr 7 17:42:26 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: load carrying capabilities of lumber/steel In-Reply-To: <986619878.3ace9fe7009fd@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: You forget the machine is mounted on casters, so you end up with eight point loads of ~200 lbs each... Thin plywood will help spread the load, but it will deflect also, spreading it to an area much smaller than a 21" diameter circle. Multiple thin layers will slide against each other during deflection and not and much strength. A single thick layer (1 inch?) would be best, but make sure the joists supporting the floor can safely handle a 1500 lbs load. Think how many joists will be under the machine. If the machine is parallel to the joists, and directly above a single one you will have problems. The best orientation is perpendicular to the joists, and as close to whatever is supporting the joists from below (beam or foundation wall). clint On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > This doesn't seem so OT to me, so I have removed OT from the subject. > > Quoting "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" : > > I am looking for an online reference to help me calculate how > > much live load (AKA VAXen) I can put on my living room floor. > > I have thought about this same subject to prepare for the arrival of my first > PDP-11 (boy am I excited!). This is how I came to a ballpark figure. The > floor of my future machine room consists of 2.25"-wide wooden slats, of varying > lengths (approx. 4'-6'), suspended above a crawlspace. I plan on putting a few > layers of plywood (anything better for this?) on top of the floor to help > spread the load evenly across the slats. Let's say I want to support 3 rack > cabinets. Well, that's a width of 21" * 3 = 63", which, in slats is 63" / > 2.25" = 28 slats. If the system weighs 1500 lbs, then that's 1500 lbs / 28 < > 54 lbs/slat. I think my slats can handle 54 lbs. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > > From azog at azog.org Sat Apr 7 18:34:13 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <01a801c0bfbb$41573e00$0a00a8c0@azog> Put me down for whatever makes a full system. I'd like NeXTStep CD's if possible... I'm in NJ at 07946 ("and see whats on the slab. I can see you quiver with antici ............ pation!" sorry, couldn't resist) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! > Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to the > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > matched up and organized. > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed some > slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step > 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so forth, I > will try to make sure every system comes with all the necessary CD's, > disks and so forth. > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would say > it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, speak > now for them. > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono > turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > > Curt > > > From leec at slip.net Sat Apr 7 18:43:03 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill, Nice catch with the IBM gear, especially the 1130. At the Computer Museum History Center part of the 1620 project (http://www.computerhistory.org/old/IBM1620/) was to restore the collection's IBM 1620 to operation, another small IBM computer but of an earlier vintage. Is the 1130 running? We refurbished the 1620 literally from the ground up, starting with the power supplies and then going from there. I suspect you'll want to go through a similar process to avoid any nasty age related problems. Post pics and keep us informed of your progress. Good luck and have fun! Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:55 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape > > > > Hi, can you please tell me more about the IBM stuff, or where I can find > > out more about it? Thanks! -Mike > > The IBM stuff consists of some channel-connected readers and punches > (S/360 stuff), as well as some stand alone "unit record" equipment. > > The disk is an S/360 era model, requiring the use of a 2841 control unit > (I will be looking for one of those) for channel connection. > > The mini is an 1130 system (more properly an 1131), and could be called > IBM's PDP-8. > > The best place to learn about older IBM equipment is to get the books > recently published by the MIT Press. One is called "IBMs Early Computers" > and the other is "IBMs System 360 and Early 370 Computers". They are out > of print, but can be found with a little looking. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > From curt at atari-history.com Sat Apr 7 19:41:56 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! References: <200104072242.PAA12012@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <003301c0bfc4$b67a56a0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Done :-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 6:42 PM Subject: Re: The NeXT's have been saved!!! > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice look > > like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are all mono > > turbo stations. > > > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets get > > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the other > > cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each way to go > > lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > Put me down for a slab, keyboard/mouse/OS/etc and monitor, to zip code > 92350. Thanks! :-) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- "The Internet is, once again, your friend" (I wrote this *before* PacBell!) From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Apr 7 19:48:30 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! In-Reply-To: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <200104080046.f380kD105182@grover.winsite.com> I think I'm already on the list, but I'm in for a slab/monitor/keyboard/mouse. Thanks! It'll look good on the desk next to my Lisa 2...... Paul > Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to > the > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > matched up and organized. > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed > some > slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step > 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so > forth, I will try to make sure every system comes with all the > necessary CD's, disks and so forth. > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would > say > it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, > speak now for them. > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice > look like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are > all mono turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets > get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the > other cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each > way to go lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > > Curt > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Apr 7 19:49:35 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! In-Reply-To: <3ACF595E.51298D52@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <200104080047.f380lH105187@grover.winsite.com> Sorry about that.... thought I was using the sig file with my address.... zip is 46410. Paul > Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to > the > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > matched up and organized. > > I'll post a full inventory sometime later tonight. I've noticed > some > slabs don't have internal HD's, others do. The OS CD's are NeXT Step > 3.2, there are loads of other disks, CD's, developers CD's and so > forth, I will try to make sure every system comes with all the > necessary CD's, disks and so forth. > > There are 3 laserprinters, one looks a little dinged up and I would > say > it is more for parts then anything else, so whomever is intereste, > speak now for them. > > I've bought the whole lot for $1,000 so each slab is $35 each plus > shipping, looks like there are a ton of extra keyboards, but the mice > look like there is enough for each slab. The systems/monitors are > all mono turbo stations. > > Those who wanted them and those who are interested, speak now, lets > get > owners for all of these units, sorry the Cube and whats left of the > other cube are mine, kinda fair since I just drove 1 1/2 hours each > way to go lug all this stuff back for everyone :-) > > > Curt > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 7 18:38:25 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, William Donzelli wrote: > > Sweet! One certainly does not come across 1130's often (if at all :) > > Where did you find this one? > > Ironically, this IBM was once offered on this list, albeit a couple of > years ago. It came out of New York. Details! :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 7 20:41:56 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 Message-ID: <3ACFC1E4.437C0B2F@heathers.stdio.com> Looking for parts for a MicroVAX 3800. A salvage yard did a number taking out the TK70 and a couple of drives. I finally have it back together and booting up. Now I am looking for the complete front door assembly and the silk screened label that fits over the front panel buttons. Willing to trade etc. Brian. From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Apr 7 21:06:39 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: Forgot VMS 072b password In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010408020419.ZCGS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Yea, I blew it. I've tried all my standard passwords and failed to log on as SYSTEM. Anyone know any work arounds? I of course have physical access to the console.... Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From Demon02554 at aol.com Sat Apr 7 21:12:31 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? Robert Cobbins From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 7 21:17:57 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! In-Reply-To: <003301c0bfc4$b67a56a0$c2609040@atarihistory.com> from Curt Vendel at "Apr 7, 1 08:41:56 pm" Message-ID: <200104080217.TAA12032@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Put me down for a slab, keyboard/mouse/OS/etc and monitor, to zip code > > 92350. Thanks! :-) > Done :-) Thanks! If you have NeXTStep CDs, I'd love them too -- if there's an extra cost for that, I'll gladly absorb it. Let me know where to send the green! I appreciate this greatly! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The older a man gets, the farther he had to walk to school as a boy. ------- From Glenatacme at aol.com Sat Apr 7 21:34:22 2001 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: In a message dated 04/07/2001 10:19:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Demon02554@aol.com writes: > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > Robert Cobbins Define "kid." Glen 0/0 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Apr 7 21:35:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 In-Reply-To: <3ACFC1E4.437C0B2F@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010407193342.023907f0@208.226.86.10> What cabinet do you have? Is it the BA213 pedestal, the BA215 narrow pedestal (that actually would be a 3400 more likely), or an H9644 rack? Also do you have DSSI drives or SDI drives? They take different panels. In either event I can probably help. --Chuck At 09:41 PM 4/7/01 -0400, you wrote: >Looking for parts for a MicroVAX 3800. A salvage yard did a number >taking out the TK70 and a couple of drives. I finally have it back >together and booting up. Now I am looking for the complete front door >assembly and the silk screened label that fits over the front panel >buttons. Willing to trade etc. > > >Brian. From west at tseinc.com Sat Apr 7 21:37:36 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: <001d01c0bfd4$e04eb380$9e8953d1@fozzie> Nope - I've been a kid for 37 years. I suspect I'll be a kid a lot longer ;) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: just outta curiosity > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > Robert Cobbins > From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Apr 7 21:38:49 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: Forgot VMS 072b password In-Reply-To: <20010408020419.ZCGS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox>; from THETechnoid@home.com on Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 10:06:39PM -0400 References: <20010408020419.ZCGS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010407223849.A11301@alcor.concordia.ca> On Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 10:06:39PM -0400, THETechnoid@home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) wrote: > Yea, I blew it. I've tried all my standard passwords and failed to log on > as SYSTEM. Anyone know any work arounds? I of course have physical > access to the console.... ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/dec-faq/OpenVMS.txt MGMT5. I've forgotten the SYSTEM password - what can I do? HTH, -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Apr 7 21:39:27 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Details! :) Look in the archives, if they still exist. Must be almost two years ago, maybe more. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Sat Apr 7 21:40:56 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com>; from Demon02554@aol.com on Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 10:12:31PM -0400 References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010407224056.B11301@alcor.concordia.ca> On Sat, Apr 07, 2001 at 10:12:31PM -0400, Demon02554@aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) wrote: > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? Let's see -- the majority of the folks on this list spend much of their waking hours keeping an eye out for interesting toys, spends a disproportionate amount of money bringing those toys home (or constructing a home for them, etc.), spends their leisure time seated at console playing with them... No, you're not the only kid on this list. But it may be that the rest of the kids on the list might be older than you. :-) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 7 21:49:44 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: <000701c0bfd6$92500c40$9c15a38e@98box> Nope, definitely not. I am. :-) Just gettin into all this stuph, workin on a homebrew 6502 SBC at the moment. -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 11:42 PM Subject: just outta curiosity > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > Robert Cobbins > From kfergaso at swbell.net Sat Apr 7 22:58:02 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 Message-ID: <0GBG009WME33T0@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> Hi Joe, you wrote on 4/7/01 9:20:28 AM: >Curt, > > First, are we talking about the same machine? I'm talking about the HP >9000 520. Aka 9020. It's a large desktop machine with a built in keyboard >and monitor. It looks like a grossly oversized Commodore 64. I think the K >520 is an entirely different machine. > Curious. The 520 we had was more like a large deskside system. No video, though probably one was offered. Definately no built in monitor. We used the standard HP terminals as consoles. I never saw it referenced as a 9020. we also had a 540, but I don't know what the differences were. But they were really cool UNIX boxes. You could hear your data on the 404Mb drive being read and written. And they were built like tanks. Kelly From kfergaso at swbell.net Sat Apr 7 22:52:01 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: EDS (was RE: HP 9000 520) Message-ID: <0GBG009WKE33T0@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> I won't relate my EDS horror stories (same song, second verse...), but Ross Perot left in 1984-85, long before the presidential run. Hi Chris Kennedy, you wrote on 4/7/01 10:59:05 AM: >Jeff Hellige wrote: > >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >> Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal >> government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't supplied >> by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered 'legacy' and >> basically unsupported. > >What is ES/NMCI? > > EDS (my mistype) is Ross Perot's company and they now have a >signed contract with the Dept. of Navy to take over the LANs > >[Accurate representation of how delightful it is to work with EDS, > snipped] From Demon02554 at aol.com Sat Apr 7 22:13:50 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: definition of "kid" = under age 18 From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Apr 7 21:19:54 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.1.20010407221057.03054c00@206.231.8.2> Ahhh, the one from Cornell Univ. that Brad Ackerman offered! Had the messages in my own ClassicCmp archive. Dang, yet again I missed it. I think I coulda talked Bev into letting me get it into the house somehow. You know what Bev is like William, I gotta get her at the right moment and she's in with me on whatever the historical interest I'm working on! I'm VERY glad you got it Bill. You have more resources than I and can spend the time it needs. Maybe in my next lifetime . . . Upon the date 10:39 PM 4/7/01 -0400, William Donzelli said something like: >> Details! :) > >Look in the archives, if they still exist. Must be almost two years ago, >maybe more. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 22:39:44 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: on 4/7/01 9:12 PM, Demon02554@aol.com at Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > Robert Cobbins No. I'm 15, and have been collecting since about 12. From fernande at internet1.net Sat Apr 7 22:52:40 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010407193342.023907f0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3ACFE088.22789EA6@internet1.net> Chuck and Everyone else, I could use the base for my 3400 (BA213). Mine didn't come with one. Anybody planning a trip to a computer recycler, or have an extra one around? I did get my case all put back together. Just finished putting the sliding door back in today.... looks awesome :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > What cabinet do you have? Is it the BA213 pedestal, the BA215 narrow > pedestal (that actually would be a 3400 more likely), or an H9644 rack? > Also do you have DSSI drives or SDI drives? They take different panels. In > either event I can probably help. > --Chuck > > At 09:41 PM 4/7/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >Looking for parts for a MicroVAX 3800. A salvage yard did a number > >taking out the TK70 and a couple of drives. I finally have it back > >together and booting up. Now I am looking for the complete front door > >assembly and the silk screened label that fits over the front panel > >buttons. Willing to trade etc. > > > > > >Brian. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Apr 7 23:19:47 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 In-Reply-To: <3ACFE088.22789EA6@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010407193342.023907f0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010407211753.0200c2c0@208.226.86.10> Some BA213's were mounted in a rack (this is called the H9644 and they have a different door structure. Others have a plastic shell and then a set of wheels that sort of clamp on the bottom under the fan tray. Are you looking for the wheels? Does your machine have the plastic outer case? Note that if you convert one to the other you need to place some sheet metal covers in the chassis to both regulate air-flow and keep the RF noise down. --Chuck At 10:52 PM 4/7/01 -0500, Chad wrote: >Chuck and Everyone else, > >I could use the base for my 3400 (BA213). Mine didn't come with one. >Anybody planning a trip to a computer recycler, or have an extra one >around? > >I did get my case all put back together. Just finished putting the >sliding door back in today.... looks awesome :-) From jss at ou.edu Sat Apr 7 23:20:33 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: <986703633.3acfe711f4046@email.ou.edu> Quoting Demon02554@aol.com: > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably near the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're young, however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure of exploring the history of computing through classic computers. Granted, we might know less than the older gurus here, but we are just as important. Lack of knowledge is a temporary obstacle; even the gurus were neophytes once. If the traditions, folklore, and spirit of computing in ages past are to survive, then at some point the flag must be passed to the next generation. So don't get discouraged by your age; get out there and start learning stuff. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 23:32:38 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning Message-ID: Hmm, I don't shoot things... I blow them up.. Or make use of a nice large sledgehammer, combined with dropping/kicking/running over the object marked for destruction... blowtorches are fun too! (Note: this is directed at non-living critters, mainly dead hard drives, PC cases, and, in one memorable occasion of particular violence, an iMac keyboard.. heh..) Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From elecdata at kcinter.net Sun Apr 8 01:48:44 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> <986703633.3acfe711f4046@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AD009CC.3116001C@kcinter.net> Very well stated and welcome to all that are interested in your given area! Bill Claussen elecdata1 "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Quoting Demon02554@aol.com: > > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably near > the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're young, > however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure of exploring > the history of computing through classic computers. Granted, we might > know less than the older gurus here, but we are just as important. Lack > of knowledge is a temporary obstacle; even the gurus were neophytes once. > If the traditions, folklore, and spirit of computing in ages past are to > survive, then at some point the flag must be passed to the next generation. > > So don't get discouraged by your age; get out there and start learning > stuff. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 8 00:34:08 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010407193342.023907f0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010407211753.0200c2c0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3ACFF850.106FA8F6@internet1.net> Chuck, I have a plastic shell around the steel case. I don't have any wheels, or the bottom most piece of the plastic shell. The whole chassis is a bit tippy (forward), am I missing a platform that the main unit sits on? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Some BA213's were mounted in a rack (this is called the H9644 and they have > a different door structure. Others have a plastic shell and then a set of > wheels that sort of clamp on the bottom under the fan tray. Are you looking > for the wheels? Does your machine have the plastic outer case? Note that if > you convert one to the other you need to place some sheet metal covers in > the chassis to both regulate air-flow and keep the RF noise down. > > --Chuck > > At 10:52 PM 4/7/01 -0500, Chad wrote: > >Chuck and Everyone else, > > > >I could use the base for my 3400 (BA213). Mine didn't come with one. > >Anybody planning a trip to a computer recycler, or have an extra one > >around? > > > >I did get my case all put back together. Just finished putting the > >sliding door back in today.... looks awesome :-) From donm at cts.com Sun Apr 8 00:53:28 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: ESDI drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Tony is (almost) correct: ESDI drives use a binary select scheme similar to > > SCSI. The three select bits are decoded to enable drives 1,2,...,6,7. > > There's no "drive 0" because that corresponds to the "deselect all drives" > > condition. > > Oh, right. I wondered if it did... Incidentally, is the ESDI spec > available anywere (or at least a signal description)? To what level of detail, Tony? I have a copy of the Maxtor Product Spec and OEM Tech Manual for the XT-8000E/EH drives that I can extract some information from. - don > > However, some PC controllers only support two drives (another legacy of the > > IBM PC BIOS) and of course they use drives 1 and 2. Therefore, some PC > > manufacturers suggest using a cable with a twist, to swap pins 26 and 28 > > (DS1 and DS2), leaving the select jumpers the same on both drives. I've > > never seen a cable with a twist on a "real" ESDI system. > > I wondered about that, too (it was an obvious way for a twist to be able > to swap drives 1 and 2). I assume from this that the drive select lines > are not used as data lines for anything else, then (unlike SCSI, say, > where the same 8 lines are used both to select a particular unit and to > transfer commands and data). > > -tony > From at258 at osfn.org Sun Apr 8 01:05:37 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: We're all kids at heart, Bob. On Sat, 7 Apr 2001 Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > Robert Cobbins > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Apr 8 01:28:47 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: EDS (was RE: HP 9000 520) In-Reply-To: <0GBG009WKE33T0@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010407232513.03069420@mail.zipcon.net> company i was laid off from in january had EDS in to help with the integration of JD Edwards ERP software with our existing systems. it was a flustercluck from the beginning, the refused to use our incident tracking system, they used excel spreadsheets for incedent tracking and wanted one of -our- employees to manually enter the incidents into our tracking system and enter the resolutions back into their spreadsheet :( the project went $500K+ over budget :( and still works like crud. At 09:52 PM 4/7/01 -0600, you wrote: >I won't relate my EDS horror stories (same song, second verse...), >but Ross Perot left in 1984-85, long before the presidential run. > > > >Hi Chris Kennedy, you wrote on 4/7/01 10:59:05 AM: > > >Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >> Just wait until ES/NMCI starts taking over the federal > >> government computers and networks. Then anything that isn't supplied > >> by them and isn't running Win2000 will be considered 'legacy' and > >> basically unsupported. > > > >What is ES/NMCI? > > > > EDS (my mistype) is Ross Perot's company and they now have a > >signed contract with the Dept. of Navy to take over the LANs > > > >[Accurate representation of how delightful it is to work with EDS, > > snipped] From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 8 01:18:40 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: >just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > >Robert Cobbins I'm old, but have the mind of a child. From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Apr 8 03:26:04 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: Looking for 27C020's at a decent price. In-Reply-To: <3AD009CC.3116001C@kcinter.net> References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> <986703633.3acfe711f4046@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010408012508.02cedcf0@mail.zipcon.net> local electronics shop (active electronics) wants $15 a pop for 27C020's I need a couple at a decent price. anyone know of any sources?? From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 8 03:33:10 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: GKS startup on VT340 terminals? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> Hello all, does anyone know what parameters I need to give to SYS$STARTUP:GKSTARTUP.COM to tell it that I'm doing graphics on a VT terminal rather than on a frame buffer? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 8 04:03:43 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: GKS startup on VT340 terminals? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408020235.02021580@208.226.86.10> I know its bad form to answer your own question but by using the wonderful VMS help system and reading some of the DCL files I figured out that a VT330 is type '16' and the connection ID is your terminal (OPA0: worked, but I suspect something like TT: would also work) --Chuck At 01:33 AM 4/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all, does anyone know what parameters I need to give to >SYS$STARTUP:GKSTARTUP.COM to tell it that I'm doing graphics on a VT >terminal rather than on a frame buffer? > >--Chuck > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 8 04:45:26 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: ESDI drives In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: ESDI drives" (Apr 7, 23:31) References: Message-ID: <10104081045.ZM4168@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 7, 23:31, Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, is the ESDI spec > available anywere (or at least a signal description)? I'v not looked for whole spec recently, but the pinout is available at http://www.u-net.com/mike/techref/iopin.txt (about 1/3 of the way down the page) and also in "the hardware handbook" website at http://www.hardwarebook.net/ However, you need to take a little care with some of the pinouts listed there, as they're not all "official", some are just what people have found to work in particular circumstances (eg, some of the "null modem" cables"). Didn't Aaron Finney have ESDI amongst his pinout list collection? And what happened to that, anyway? His web page at http://www.prinsol.com/classiccmp/ seems to have disappeared. > > However, some PC controllers only support two drives (another legacy of the > > IBM PC BIOS) and of course they use drives 1 and 2. Therefore, some PC > > manufacturers suggest using a cable with a twist, to swap pins 26 and 28 > > (DS1 and DS2), leaving the select jumpers the same on both drives. I've > > never seen a cable with a twist on a "real" ESDI system. > > I wondered about that, too (it was an obvious way for a twist to be able > to swap drives 1 and 2). I assume from this that the drive select lines > are not used as data lines for anything else, then (unlike SCSI, say, > where the same 8 lines are used both to select a particular unit and to > transfer commands and data). No, it's a pretty low-level interface, like ST506/412. I read somewhere that it was designed as an enhanced/faster ST412 interface, possibly by Maxtor and Miniscribe, and I think Maxtor used to have some information on their website. All I can find now, though, is a line in their glossary. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 8 04:54:54 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: Demon02554@aol.com "Re: just outta curiosity" (Apr 7, 23:13) References: Message-ID: <10104081054.ZM4172@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 7, 23:13, Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > definition of "kid" = under age 18 Wrong definition, I suspect :-) Especially if you ask my wife! Probably even more so if you ask some of my work colleagues about my collection. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From peter at joules.org Sun Apr 8 05:37:37 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:57 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <10104081054.ZM4172@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 7, 23:13, Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > > definition of "kid" = under age 18 > > Wrong definition, I suspect :-) Especially if you ask my wife! Probably > even more so if you ask some of my work colleagues about my collection. > > Reminds me of the old saying "Men are just boys... with more expensive toys". Certainly Fiona reckons that I need to grow up, playing with computers and bikes. I might just do that one day but yet, I am only 43. -- Regards Pete From azog at azog.org Sun Apr 8 05:40:32 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> Message-ID: <003401c0c018$56e266c0$0a00a8c0@azog> depends on your defination of "kid" :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 10:12 PM Subject: just outta curiosity > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > Robert Cobbins > From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Apr 8 06:12:35 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <3ACF0BBF.5516B4D0@heathers.stdio.com> from Brian Roth at "Apr 7, 2001 08:44:47 am" Message-ID: <20010408111243Z433091-16034+230@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > Mark, > > Indeed, changing the search to SGI turned up some good sites. I > haven't been able to fire these up yet though as the keyboards are > missing. A quick call to the place I got them and they were located and > are being saved. Still have to scare up a monitor though. > THe keyboards are non-standard, so its a good thing you found them. The cables for the keyboard are PC keyboard cables, except they need males connectors on both ends. They won't boot without a keyboard, stop part way through the initial hardware check in the boot prom. You can use a VGA monitor with them. If you have to low end graphics board there is a VGA connector on it, otherwise you need a cable with 13w3 and VGA connectors. > Brian. > > Mark Green wrote: > > > > > I have a CDC Cyber 910 running happily here beside me. Its > > a re-labeled SGI Indigo R3K workstation. As far as I can tell > > only the labels on the case are different. The standard SGI > > sites have lots of information on these workstations. Very > > solid, mine survived airline handling on the trip from Edmonton > > to Hong Kong. They run IRIX (the SGI version of Unix) up to > > version 5.3. > > > > -- > > Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca > > McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 > > Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) > > University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada > > -- > ______ > > -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 8 06:57:26 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: Mark Green "Re: New Finds" (Apr 8, 5:12) References: <20010408111243Z433091-16034+230@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <10104081257.ZM4270@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 8, 5:12, Mark Green wrote: [ re SGI/CDC Cyber 910 keyboards] > The cables for the keyboard are PC keyboard cables, except they > need males connectors on both ends. It would be more accurate to say they're LIKE PS/2 keyboard cables, except they need a male (6-pin miniDIN) connector both ends, AND they need all 6 pins wired up. PS/2 only uses 4 wires (pins 2 and 6 are unused), and so PC 6-pin miniDIN cables are not fully wired. Mac cables probably are. > They won't boot without > a keyboard, stop part way through the initial hardware check in > the boot prom. I was going to say that Indigos boot fine without a keyboard, using the first serial port as console -- but in fact you have to change the PROM settings (setenv console d, or setenv nogfxkbd 1) to do that, for which you (initially) need a keyboard and monitor :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 10:38:08 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408103808.091f18c8@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:51 AM 4/7/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: > > >I fell in nerd love with Frank McConnell's 9000/520 the very first time I >saw it (he brought it to VCF 1.0 to exhibit, working and all). I always >wanted one, and thanks to Jim Willing who brought one down from the hills >for me last year, I now have one :) It is truly a unique beast (and I >mean "beast" for real...the thing looks like a big hulking PC on >steroids). > >Have you fired yours up yet Joe? I haven't had time to play with mine yet >:( > Sellam, I tried to fire mine up but it has problems. It powers up and tries to read the floppy drive then the power supply shuts down. I haven't had time to trouble shoot it yet. FWIW the guy that went to the Goddard SFC auction didn't get the two 9000/520s that were there. He said they were too big and too heavy and he would have had to leave somethingelse that he wanted more behind in order to bring them back so he didn't bother. I'll try to find out who got them. If I do, I'll post a message on the list and perhaps someone else can pick them up. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 10:46:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Univac? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220441.40270d2e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408104619.091f747a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:09 AM 4/7/01 -0500, Owen wrote: >on 4/6/01 10:04 PM, Joe at rigdonj@intellistar.net wrote: > >> Does anyone know what a Univac 8303 is? It's dates from around 1978. >> >> Joe >> >I could be wrong, but I think it is the UNIVAC 8303 Input/Output Processor >(a full computer, despite the name), which seems to have first been produced >in the 1960s by Sperry, but supported by Lockheed Martin now. I don't know >anything more. Did you get your hands on one? > Yes, it's an I/O processor. No, I didn't get one but I did find a quick reference card for one at a local surplus place and I was wondering exactly what it was. A Google search didn'turn up much except that they're used in a lot of the airport approach control systems and a lot of people are raising cane about how antiquated they are. FWIW The surplus outfit where I found the card gets a lot of stuff from the local Lockheed Martin plant so it's very possible that they have a 8303 in their most recent load. If anyone is in the area (Orlando) and wants to go look I'll give you directions of how to get to the place. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 8 10:06:28 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: ESDI drives References: <10104081045.ZM4168@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <002201c0c03d$7d0b3b40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> please see remarks embedded below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 3:45 AM Subject: Re: ESDI drives > On Apr 7, 23:31, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Incidentally, is the ESDI spec > > > > I wondered about that, too (it was an obvious way for a twist to be able > > to swap drives 1 and 2). I assume from this that the drive select lines > > are not used as data lines for anything else, then (unlike SCSI, say, > > where the same 8 lines are used both to select a particular unit and to > > transfer commands and data). > > No, it's a pretty low-level interface, like ST506/412. I read somewhere > that it was designed as an enhanced/faster ST412 interface, possibly by > Maxtor and Miniscribe, and I think Maxtor used to have some information on > their website. All I can find now, though, is a line in their glossary. > It's not low-level in the sense in which ST506/412 works, in that the drive doesn't rely on the controller to modulate/demodulate the data stream, nor does it rely on the controller to micro-control the head positioning. It responds to high-level commands, e.g. "format the track" and executes them as determined by drive-resident firmware rather than a controller-determined protocol, more or less as does the SCSI, though it doesn't buffer the data and it doesn't do its own error correction. Though the transfer rates are pretty high, because the controller does so much of the work, and because raw data rather than processed data flows between drive and controller, parallelism between drives is not possible. I once attended a convention at which I recall a prominent rotating memory systems expert characterizing the ESDI (which I was using in a uVAX-II-based military oriented system, at the behest of the fellows at JPL) who characterized it (ESDI) as a "next-step" after SMD. This did, at the time, make some sense. In the uVAX-II/MSCP environment, we found that both ESDI and SCSI were capable of higher transfer rates than the OS could consume in normal operation, but, when pressed, ESDI, though it had higher raw transfer rates than what SCSI would do, was outperformed in every respect by SCSI when put to a discrete test. SCSI transferred data faster, in the aggregate, in a system with two drives, and MSCP, though it did quite well with either interface, seemed to utilize SCSI much better than the PC did, in that it exploited disconnect/reconnect, command queueing, etc, in a way that enabled inter-device communication, etc, so as to perform MUCH better than ESDI. Moreover, the then-new SCSI version of the MAXTOR 4380E which was what we'd been using, cost a flat $1k less than the ESDI version, and the EMULEX SCSI adapter cost $1k less than the EMULEX ESDI controller we were using as well. With two drives per system, and combined with the fact that the SCSI adapter had to be there for the MO drives we were required to use in place of the usual TK50's, it was not a hard choice from an economic standpoint. Presenting the choice in such a blatant and compelling way, however, got me fired (temporarily) from my position on that project. It was not a good thing to do from a political perspective ... ... I was very impressed with the uVAX implementation of these two interfaces. I could not make the PC/AT perform as the uVAX-II disk subsystem did, even though the PC/AT (at 25 MHz) ran rings around the uVAX-II in discrete performance tests. Clearly, both SCSI and ESDI benefit greatly from a well-thought-out implementation. Apparently the PC lacked that. > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Apr 8 10:13:07 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Forgot VMS 072b password In-Reply-To: <20010407223849.A11301@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <20010408151148.NOEK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I went to the website below and began entering the suggested parameters at the sysboot> prompt. SET/STARTUP DKA200: works fine SET WINDOWSYSTEM 0 responds that there is no such parameter as WINDOWSYSTEM SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 works fine CONTINUE works fine of course I can't get to a DCL prompt without disabling the window system Help! please. V/R Jeff In <20010407223849.A11301@alcor.concordia.ca>, on 04/08/01 at 11:13 AM, Rich Lafferty said: >ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/dec-faq/OpenVMS.txt -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Apr 8 10:16:55 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <10104081054.ZM4172@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20010408151252.NORE1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Definition of "kid" - a goat that is not sexually mature. wink Jeff In <10104081054.ZM4172@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>, on 04/08/01 at 11:16 AM, pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) said: >On Apr 7, 23:13, Demon02554@aol.com wrote: >> definition of "kid" = under age 18 -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Apr 8 09:22:23 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <10104081257.ZM4270@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Apr 8, 2001 11:57:26 am" Message-ID: <20010408151959Z433307-29570+8@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > On Apr 8, 5:12, Mark Green wrote: > > [ re SGI/CDC Cyber 910 keyboards] > > The cables for the keyboard are PC keyboard cables, except they > > need males connectors on both ends. > > It would be more accurate to say they're LIKE PS/2 keyboard cables, except > they need a male (6-pin miniDIN) connector both ends, AND they need all 6 > pins wired up. PS/2 only uses 4 wires (pins 2 and 6 are unused), and so PC > 6-pin miniDIN cables are not fully wired. Mac cables probably are. Depends upon where you get your cables. Most of the better quality cables that I've found have all 6 pins wired, even though only 4 are needed. It could be that they sell the cable for more than one purpose, so they connect all the pins whether they need them or not. Its well worth finding a good cable supplier, I've been burned more than once by cheap cables that didn't quite do the job. > > > They won't boot without > > a keyboard, stop part way through the initial hardware check in > > the boot prom. > > I was going to say that Indigos boot fine without a keyboard, using the > first serial port as console -- but in fact you have to change the PROM > settings (setenv console d, or setenv nogfxkbd 1) to do that, for which you > (initially) need a keyboard and monitor :-( > That's the problem, if they weren't initially configured to boot off the serial port, you can't do anything with them when the keyboard of graphics goes. We did this with all our SGI workstations, since at some point the graphics will go, and without the serial port console you can't run diagnostics to figure out what's wrong. All the high end SGIs (Oynx, Origin, etc) have a special serial port for this purpose. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From univac2 at earthlink.net Sun Apr 8 10:36:51 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Univac? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010408104619.091f747a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I'll be in Orlando in about a month. Where is it? > Yes, it's an I/O processor. No, I didn't get one but I did find a quick > reference card for one at a local surplus place and I was wondering exactly > what it was. A Google search didn'turn up much except that they're used in > a lot of the airport approach control systems and a lot of people are > raising cane about how antiquated they are. FWIW The surplus outfit where I > found the card gets a lot of stuff from the local Lockheed Martin plant so > it's very possible that they have a 8303 in their most recent load. If > anyone is in the area (Orlando) and wants to go look I'll give you > directions of how to get to the place. > > Joe > From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Apr 8 10:38:28 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Got it! (was Re: Forgot VMS 072b password) In-Reply-To: <20010408151148.NOEK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010408153716.OAOB1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Hoping against hope that the SYSTEST username had sufficient privaleges, and that I remembered the password, I logged in as SYSTEST. I ran the authorization mods in the manual at the URL you gave me and changed the SYSTEM password to something I would remember. Lo and Behold! I have a working system I am master of. Thanks for your help! Damn. I wish that VMS didn't ask me to change my pw every 30 days or so. That sucks as this is not a production system. Security isn't a high priority by consequence. There is now a stickynote attached to the monitor with the usernames and passwords written on it...... Regards and thanks, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Apr 8 11:00:04 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Looking for 27C020's at a decent price. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010408012508.02cedcf0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <3AD009CC.3116001C@kcinter.net> <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> <986703633.3acfe711f4046@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010408090004.009b6cf0@192.168.42.129> At 01:26 08-04-2001 -0700, Geoff Reed wrote: >local electronics shop (active electronics) wants $15 a pop for 27C020's I >need a couple at a decent price. anyone know of any sources?? www.jameco.com only wants about $6-$7 each if I recall. I think they have a $15.00 minimum order. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 8 11:02:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: <20010408111243Z433091-16034+230@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Mark Green wrote: > THe keyboards are non-standard, so its a good thing you found them. What does a "standard" keyboard look like? The closest thing I could think of would be an "ASCII keyboard", whatever that actually means. My WYSE terminal is supposed to have one. From emu at ecubics.com Sun Apr 8 11:05:31 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: GKS startup on VT340 terminals? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD08C4B.56BE9B56@ecubics.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > > Hello all, does anyone know what parameters I need to give to > SYS$STARTUP:GKSTARTUP.COM to tell it that I'm doing graphics on a VT > terminal rather than on a frame buffer? What are you doing with GKS !?!?! ;-) cheers From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 10:13:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, William Donzelli wrote: > > Details! :) > > Look in the archives, if they still exist. Must be almost two years ago, > maybe more. Without searchable archives (and any reasonable reference to look for) it would take an act of Jehova to find what you're speaking of. I guess I understand if you just don't want to talk about it :? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 8 11:35:50 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Define "kid." Anyone so young that they were born after the development of FORTRAN? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 11:12:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010407102028.3b0f10f2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408111212.3c071a72@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:07 PM 4/7/01 +0200, you wrote: >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > >> First, are we talking about the same machine? I'm talking about the HP >> 9000 520. Aka 9020. It's a large desktop machine with a built in keyboard >> and monitor. It looks like a grossly oversized Commodore 64. I think the K >> 520 is an entirely different machine. > >Are there any other similar HP machines? I've seen such a beast at a >mate's, but I could be mistaken. It had several cartridge ports, IIRC. Most of the HP 98xx series machines have cartridge ports in the front. Does it have a monitor? Then it's probably a 9835A or a 9845 (the 9835B has a single line LED display). The 9835 is slightly larger than a Commie 64. The 9845 is much larger. The 9020 doesn't have any cartridge ports. If it has cartridge ports in the rear then it could be a HP 85 (small built in CRT) or a HP 86 or 87 (external monitor). > >> Next, I was speaking of old computers in general. Some of people on the >> list are always complaining about how the internet, E-bay (and now the >> ex-MITS building computer museum) are driving up the prices of old machines >> and how they can't afford old computers any more, etc, etc. However I >> manage to find something interesting nearly everytime that I go looking. I >> didn't even go out this week but still managed to aquire some HP Integral >> manauls, a HP documentation index and found the auction listing for the two >> 9000 520s. Last week I did go looking and found two NICE Kaypros with loads >> of original disks. The week before that I found an IBM L40SX, IBM P70, a >> Sun 635 MP, a HP 9000 520, a HP 9836, a HP 9000 series 300 and a HP 9000 >> 835. My point is there are still loads of old computers out there and for >> cheap prices if anyone is willing to get off their a** and go look! > >I don't believe that's the case where I'm at. I don't know where old >machines go here, but I suppose a lot of them have either wound up in the >collections of the academic computer clubs and their members, or gone to >the "recycling" plants. There even doesn't seem to be that many collectors >over here. >Then again, I'm not the kind who likes stealing or begging. I'm such a >coward, I won't take chances. I know a lot of people find their machines by dumper diving but I don't. Every machine that I get, I buy at a hamfest, trift store or on the surplus market. I've had very good luck finding machines by simply searching out the local scrap compannies and asking them if I can go through their yard and look for anything usefull. Most of them think it's pretty weird that someone wants the OLD computers but they're not going to turn down a chance to make money! FWIW I stopped at one scrap metal dealer Friday and dug down through a barrel of old cards and found at least 10 S-100 cards. About half of them were Crommeco cards. It's that easy. (The same place just got a huge lot of manuals including a lot of very old Zenith computer manuals and a LOT of HP 85, 86, 87 and 9825 manuals. I'm trying to buy that lot.) Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 11:18:19 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Charging Laptop (and other)batteries In-Reply-To: <3ACF1530.21383.D9FA971@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20010405235636.3bdf222e@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACCF371.24666.54B8365@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408111819.3c071c8a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:25 PM 4/7/01 -0400, you wrote: > Thanks Joe and Tony. A further question is that some of the laptop batteries >have double positive and negative connection plates. Where these just to >ensure a good connection or are they actually 2 separate circuits. e.g. >2 6v in a 12 v pack ? The ones that I've seen have both - or both + terminals tied directly together or else through a thermal switch. I've never seen another arrangement but that's not to say that they couldn't do it. The only way to be sure would be to open the pack and check it. Joe > >larry > >> At 10:36 PM 4/5/01 -0400, larry wrote: >> > This is likely elementary but many times I run across the encased laptop >> >and other function(eg cordless drills) batteries. Of course each has it's >> own proprietory >> >charger which have long since disappeared and are costly to replace as >> well as being >> >device and company specific . Many of them have a 3rd terminal. What was >> it's >> >purpose. >> > Can you recharge these batteries simply by rigging up an interface using >> appropriate >> >voltages and polarity ? How would you deal with the 3rd terminal ? >> > >> > >> >> Larry, >> >> I'm assuming that your talking about NiCad batteries. If so, the third >> terminal is usually connected back to the * battery terminal via a thermal >> switch. The third terminal is used to recharge the batteries at a high >> current rate (Quick Charge). The thermal switch has to be in the circuit to >> prevent the batteries over heating and being damaged by the high current. You >> can go ahead charge the batteries at a normal 1/10 C (or lower) rate via the >> third terminal or the normal * terminal. The batteries will also last a lot >> longer if they're charged at 1/10 C instead "Quick Charged". The charge voltage >> isn't critical in NiCads but the charging current is important. >> >> Joe >> >> > > > >Reply to: >lgwalker@look.ca > From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 10:27:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986703633.3acfe711f4046@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably > near the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're > young, however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure of > exploring the history of computing through classic computers. > Granted, we might know less than the older gurus here, but we are just > as important. Lack of knowledge is a temporary obstacle; even the > gurus were neophytes once. If the traditions, folklore, and spirit of > computing in ages past are to survive, then at some point the flag > must be passed to the next generation. Nope, we intend to keep everything from you young whipper-snappers. Your first history lesson is to understand that computers used to sit behind big panes of glass, accessible only to the priesthood that maintained them. You communed with them only through a small hole where you passed your punched cards and got your results back (usually just error messages). So too it is with computer history. You can only have access to the knowledge we pass to you through the little hole in the window. Do not try to subvert our authority or we will find it fit to smite thee. And let's just get one thing straight, you were either born to compute or you ended up being some post-degree market-molded wannabee nerd who couldn't get a job in your chosen profession and just jumped on the bandwagon during the great Internet bubble economy of the late 1990s and "became" a programmer. So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, not made. Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 10:28:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Hmm, I don't shoot things... I blow them up.. Or make use of a nice large > sledgehammer, combined with dropping/kicking/running over the object marked > for destruction... blowtorches are fun too! > > (Note: this is directed at non-living critters, mainly dead hard drives, PC > cases, and, in one memorable occasion of particular violence, an iMac > keyboard.. heh..) Will: Ritalin. Look into it. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Apr 8 11:40:19 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: pdp8e powersupply / Filter capacitors Message-ID: <010301c0c04a$b96b3e20$a2aefea9@marianca> Does anyone know if replacements are avaliable for the filter capacitors on the mains section of the PDP 8/E power supply ? I've got 3 supplies, and all of them trip the ground fault protection switch when switched on.... Jos Dreesen From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 10:40:42 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010408103808.091f18c8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > I tried to fire mine up but it has problems. It powers up and tries > to read the floppy drive then the power supply shuts down. I haven't > had time to trouble shoot it yet. FWIW the guy that went to the > Goddard SFC auction didn't get the two 9000/520s that were there. He > said they were too big and too heavy and he would have had to leave > somethingelse that he wanted more behind in order to bring them back > so he didn't bother. I'll try to find out who got them. If I do, I'll > post a message on the list and perhaps someone else can pick them up. It would be a shame if those got scrapped. I hope you're able to track them down. If you do, and they're available, I hope some kind souls on the list will take it upon themselves to rescue them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 8 11:53:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Without searchable archives (and any reasonable reference to look for) it >would take an act of Jehova to find what you're speaking of. Actually, I come up with hits on the list archives quite often when doing searches off of the search engines such as Altavista. Granted, not as good a search function as the archives having their own, but it works for some of the odder items that are talked about here that don't get thousands of other hits elsewhere. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vcf at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 10:43:36 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, bill claussen wrote: > Very well stated and welcome to all that are interested in your given area! To be serious (for once) I think it's terrific that "kids" are interested in old computers. To show an interest in machines that in some cases predate themselves shows a reverence and appreciation for computer technology, and this is the type of person the world needs to continue progress. Seriously. Back in the 50s the US was on such a push to emphasize technology in schools, but nowadays we are teaching kids how to be users and nothing more. I'm glad to see younger folks taking it upon themselves to explore technology at a more fundamental level. These are the ones who will become the great programmers and engineers of the future. One of the things I am doing to promote appreciation of old computers and computer history amongst the younger generation is preparing a mini-lecture on computer history that I plan to give at local schools (for free of course). My idea is to show them how we got to where we are today with computing technology, for example showing them an evolution of disk drive technology by comparing a ZIP drive to a 3.5" to a 5.25" to an 8" to paper tape to punch cards, etc. And actually bringing the drives in too! It won't interest all of them, or even most of them, but the ones that were waiting to discover computers will certainly "get it", and those are the ones I want to reach. Plus once I get them hooked I can then recruit them to do menial tasks for the VCF Archives like cataloguing books and schlepping stuff around ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 13:11:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <15055.26274.604336.554470@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> <3.0.1.16.20010407095707.3b0fde5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408131126.3b9f4778@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:12 PM 4/7/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: >On April 7, Joe wrote: >> > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our >> >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. >> >> Yeap, you'd better grab the older "good" stuff while you can. > > What about the NEWER "good" stuff? Like what? Even SGI is going to WinBlows/Intel platforms. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 13:14:39 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <8d.4df24cf.280095be@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408131439.3b9fbc74@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:32 AM 4/7/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > >> I got one shortly before my auction. It was like an overgrown 9845 It was >> larger and heavier IIRC. and sharper corners. It was one of the first 32 bit >> integrated workstations. Advertised as a mainframe on the desktop in 1985. >> Ran HP-UX.. Came with either a B&W or color monitor, 512K byte Ram and a 5 >> 1/4 floppy. You could add a 10 meg HD, internal I think. The 9000 520 also >> cost $30,000 to $50,000 in 1985. >> >> Mine had two HPIB channels. I tried to get it hooked up before the sale but >> wasn't able to. A local listmember bought it so it is still within the CC >> list family. It is the only one of those I ever found. > >This is the one I ended up with (Jim bought it and then sold it to me :) Cool. Doesit work? That makes three that I know of including my half-dead one. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Apr 8 13:17:48 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <15054.42045.575075.881305@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010408131748.3b9fd01c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:52 PM 4/7/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >> >> >> I've been noticing a very disturbing trend...anything that isn't an >> overclocked Intel box is "old" or "legacy". > >The same seems to apply to books as well. I keep on finding excellent >electronics books in second-hand bookshops that have been 'withdrawn' >from some company library or other. Doubtless to be replaced by much >poorer modern books (there simply aren't enough good modern books to >replace as many books as I find second hand...). > > Tony's right. I have lots of old engineering books and many of them are much better written than the current crop of books. I particurly like the old McGraw-Hill series of engineering books, I pick up just about everyone that I find. Joe From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 8 12:10:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You know, I really liked Jeffrey's observation, but Sellam's reply gave me a good chuckle. My thoughts on it are that history is something to be passed on, with as little personal bias and as much fact as possible, so that the same mistakes aren't repeated. Often, it takes the fresh eyes to bring something into proper perspective when the original participants are too close to the problem to see it in an unbiased light. Jeff >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > >> It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably >> near the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're >> young, however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure of >> exploring the history of computing through classic computers. >> Granted, we might know less than the older gurus here, but we are just >> as important. Lack of knowledge is a temporary obstacle; even the >> gurus were neophytes once. If the traditions, folklore, and spirit of >> computing in ages past are to survive, then at some point the flag >> must be passed to the next generation. > >Nope, we intend to keep everything from you young whipper-snappers. Your >first history lesson is to understand that computers used to sit behind >big panes of glass, accessible only to the priesthood that maintained >them. You communed with them only through a small hole where you passed >your punched cards and got your results back (usually just error >messages). > >So too it is with computer history. You can only have access to the >knowledge we pass to you through the little hole in the window. Do not >try to subvert our authority or we will find it fit to smite thee. > >And let's just get one thing straight, you were either born to compute or >you ended up being some post-degree market-molded wannabee nerd who >couldn't get a job in your chosen profession and just jumped on the >bandwagon during the great Internet bubble economy of the late 1990s and >"became" a programmer. > >So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, >not made. > >Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 8 12:15:22 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Re: HP 9000 520 (Joe) References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> <3.0.1.16.20010407095707.3b0fde5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010408131126.3b9f4778@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <15056.40106.754846.464611@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 8, Joe wrote: > >> > For those of us who care about the quality of what we put on our > >> >desktops (and in our computer rooms), this is pretty frightening. > >> > >> Yeap, you'd better grab the older "good" stuff while you can. > > > > What about the NEWER "good" stuff? > > > Like what? Even SGI is going to WinBlows/Intel platforms. Yeah, they've been saying that for years. I don't know of anyone who's bought one. I'm partial to Alphas, myself, aside from SGIs... -Dave McGuire From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 8 12:41:31 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <00b201c0c053$26c2e7e0$9515a38e@98box> Ahhhh..... young Vs. Old. As (i think) the youngest person on this list, I would think that, although older people probably know a lot more, younger people would be fresher and open to new ideas. As a general assumption, I figure a lot of the younger computer junkies were probably bred up on video games, probably either thought, "hey, i wanna know how to make these games!!" or "Hey, i wonder if there's anything more?". I myself own a PS2 (the new) and a C64, CoCo1, Amiga 500, and a ZX81 (the really old). I'd rather be hacking at those than mindlessly playing PS2. Now, from another front, the older guys (and gals) around here probably were in the perfect spot for new technology, some witnessing the moon landing as a kid or teenager, and being caught up in the microcomputer revolution. I'm not one to guess, but I figure that living in Silicon Valley in the mid to late 70s must have been utterly amazing. - Lanny PS And if any old, wise elder has a nice PIC programmer to pawn off on a mindless young guru-wannabe, thou shalt contact me. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: Re: just outta curiosity > Nope, we intend to keep everything from you young whipper-snappers. Your > first history lesson is to understand that computers used to sit behind > big panes of glass, accessible only to the priesthood that maintained > them. You communed with them only through a small hole where you passed > your punched cards and got your results back (usually just error > messages). > > So too it is with computer history. You can only have access to the > knowledge we pass to you through the little hole in the window. Do not > try to subvert our authority or we will find it fit to smite thee. > > And let's just get one thing straight, you were either born to compute or > you ended up being some post-degree market-molded wannabee nerd who > couldn't get a job in your chosen profession and just jumped on the > bandwagon during the great Internet bubble economy of the late 1990s and > "became" a programmer. > > So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, > not made. > > Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From azog at azog.org Sun Apr 8 12:41:48 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Got it! (was Re: Forgot VMS 072b password) References: <20010408153716.OAOB1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <004201c0c053$308decc0$0a00a8c0@azog> $ set def sys$system $ mcr authorize UAF> mod username/nopwdexp I'm pretty sure it's nopwdexp, but in authorize, just type help :) > > Damn. I wish that VMS didn't ask me to change my pw every 30 days or so. > That sucks as this is not a production system. Security isn't a high > priority by consequence. From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 8 12:45:39 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <986751939.3ad0a3c3b7061@email.ou.edu> Quoting Sellam Ismail : > On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably > > near the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're > > young, however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure of > > exploring the history of computing through classic computers. > > Granted, we might know less than the older gurus here, but we are just > > as important. Lack of knowledge is a temporary obstacle; even the > > gurus were neophytes once. If the traditions, folklore, and spirit of > > computing in ages past are to survive, then at some point the flag > > must be passed to the next generation. > > Nope, we intend to keep everything from you young whipper-snappers. > Your first history lesson is to understand that computers used to sit > behind big panes of glass, accessible only to the priesthood that > maintained them. You communed with them only through a small hole > where you passed your punched cards and got your results back (usually > just error messages). > > So too it is with computer history. You can only have access to the > knowledge we pass to you through the little hole in the window. Do not > try to subvert our authority or we will find it fit to smite thee. :-) Yes, it's a little different for us, and yes, we must respect our elders. Did I not just give my elders the title "guru"? > And let's just get one thing straight, you were either born to compute > or you ended up being some post-degree market-molded wannabee nerd who > couldn't get a job in your chosen profession and just jumped on the > bandwagon during the great Internet bubble economy of the late 1990s and > "became" a programmer. Well, I was most definitely born that way. Computing runs through my blood; programming is my religion. I absolutely detest the wannabees of which you speak, those to whom it is just another good-paying job. Those types are quite numerous at college, and I make every possible attempt to treat them as a lower class. It's easy to spot them when they say things like "Man, this programming assignment will be tough. I haven't had to write anything since two semesters ago. Maybe I should change my major back to business. And that stupid , why does he grade so hard? I failed his because he grades too hard." -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 8 12:56:14 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD0A639.4365D095@eoni.com> Would that be FORTRAN IV or FORTRAN 77? ;o) "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > Define "kid." > > Anyone so young that they were born after the development of FORTRAN? From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 8 12:58:00 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <003801c0c055$91d6cae0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Anyone so young that they were born after the development of FORTRAN? Hmmm... FORTRAN-1: 1954 then, Yes. JEA was developed 3 years later. FORTRAN-IV was my First Computer language, learned just before the development of F77. J(ohn E.A. From ncherry at home.net Sun Apr 8 13:11:30 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD0A9D2.CA63A590@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > > It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably > > near the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're > > young, however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure of > > exploring the history of computing through classic computers. > > Granted, we might know less than the older gurus here, but we are just > > as important. Lack of knowledge is a temporary obstacle; even the > > gurus were neophytes once. If the traditions, folklore, and spirit of > > computing in ages past are to survive, then at some point the flag > > must be passed to the next generation. > > Nope, we intend to keep everything from you young whipper-snappers. Your > first history lesson is to understand that computers used to sit behind > big panes of glass, accessible only to the priesthood that maintained > them. You communed with them only through a small hole where you passed > your punched cards and got your results back (usually just error > messages). > > So too it is with computer history. You can only have access to the > knowledge we pass to you through the little hole in the window. Do not > try to subvert our authority or we will find it fit to smite thee. > > And let's just get one thing straight, you were either born to compute or > you ended up being some post-degree market-molded wannabee nerd who > couldn't get a job in your chosen profession and just jumped on the > bandwagon during the great Internet bubble economy of the late 1990s and > "became" a programmer. > > So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, > not made. > > Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. Ah the BOFH! I was a BOFH and a BUFH (at the same time ;-) Sellam have you ever had a disk drive try to sneak up on you while in the temple of glass? ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Sun Apr 8 13:14:03 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: Address needed (Z80 Starter kit Docs)? Message-ID: <3AD0AA6B.58299AA1@home.net> Would the kind soul who sent me the docs please directly email with your address? I think I know who it is but since I have things (life) in such a mess I want to make sure. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 8 13:27:32 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: GKS startup on VT340 terminals? In-Reply-To: <3AD08C4B.56BE9B56@ecubics.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408112133.01eb16b0@208.226.86.10> At 10:05 AM 4/8/01 -0600, emmanuel wrote: >What are you doing with GKS !?!?! Drawing. ;-) One of the things I really wanted to do was to get to a point where I could draw things on my VT340. Now that I've got several I felt for the next VCF I would put together (for sale) a complete MicroVAX setup (either II or III) with a VT340 that was set up to run Graphics applications on the VT340 console. VAX BASIC has support for talking to GKS and you can't do space invaders but you can do interesting things. In particular you can plot data that is coming in from some other source (like one of those free DATAQ serial data acquistion dongles). As I have more then enough parts to put together a MicroVAX II in a BA123 with 8 serial ports it seems like it could be a system that was both interesting to use and understand, and had some demonstrable benefit to the spousal unit. (besides a fine coffee table with air recirculating capabilities) --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:10:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: ESDI drives In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 7, 1 10:53:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/1c3ea0ff/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:07:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986703633.3acfe711f4046@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Apr 7, 1 11:20:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3612 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/f05192da/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 12:44:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <7b.12c7ce25.2801230f@aol.com> from "Demon02554@aol.com" at Apr 7, 1 10:12:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/8324e925/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:15:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: ESDI drives In-Reply-To: <002201c0c03d$7d0b3b40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 8, 1 09:06:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/603663f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:22:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010408111212.3c071a72@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 8, 1 11:12:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1231 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/53d3e78d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:27:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: pdp8e powersupply / Filter capacitors In-Reply-To: <010301c0c04a$b96b3e20$a2aefea9@marianca> from "Marian Capel" at Apr 8, 1 06:40:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/a277c674/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:36:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010408131748.3b9fd01c@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 8, 1 01:17:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1720 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/99d88a89/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 13:44:54 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <00b201c0c053$26c2e7e0$9515a38e@98box> from "Lanny Cox" at Apr 8, 1 03:11:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1268 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/cab449b6/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Sun Apr 8 14:00:58 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:58 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408112133.01eb16b0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD0B56A.7EF4580B@ecubics.com> Hi all, In the beginning of the '80 I was sitting on a VT100 with an additional/optional "selenar graphics board" Anybody out here, ever heard of such beast or has one ? As far as I remember, it had an z80 on it, and was emulating an Tektronix 4010 or something similar. Had a lot of fun with it ;-) cheers From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 8 14:05:09 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: <22.147abc85.28021065@aol.com> >Nope, we intend to keep everything from you young whipper-snappers. Your >first history lesson is to understand that computers used to sit behind >big panes of glass, accessible only to the priesthood that maintained >them. You communed with them only through a small hole where you passed >your punched cards and got your results back (usually just error >messages). >So too it is with computer history. You can only have access to the >knowledge we pass to you through the little hole in the window. Do not >try to subvert our authority or we will find it fit to smite thee. >And let's just get one thing straight, you were either born to compute or >you ended up being some post-degree market-molded wannabee nerd who >couldn't get a job in your chosen profession and just jumped on the >bandwagon during the great Internet bubble economy of the late 1990s and >"became" a programmer. >So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, >not made. >Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org well....there werent always punchcards....my grandfather once let me see a "supercomputer" that was programmed entirely by pushing switches.... anyways...im 16....i've been into computers since i was about a year old....have been a "programmer" since i was 5 and discovered BASIC...now im more into figuring out hardware design and all that fun stuff.... but the gurus should be nicer to us cause there are more of us than there are of them....and if need be i'll go find the info i need on my own...its amazing what you can do when you dont have a girlfriend or much life outside of school....heh Robert Cobbins From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 8 14:10:14 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: > I thought we were all kids here :-). Just that our toys are a little more complicated than average.... too true my friend....too true...but i suppose i should have asked minors....heh Robert Cobbins From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 8 14:11:00 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: ESDI drives References: Message-ID: <001501c0c05f$a68c1bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'm not sure that there was, in fact, a "common command set" as was intended for SCSI. A specification for matching drive and controller capabilities is advisable. In the PC environment, there was considerable variation in the controllers' capabilities. The WD controllers, WD1005, and WD1007 seemed to have half-baked abilities to translate tracks to what would fit in the old WD1003-WAH model, but since most ESDI drives had LOTS of cylinders, in some cases over 4000, it was not done on those series of controllers. I understand from someone who stuck with ESDI longer than I, that the WD1009-series was capable of dealing with that. I once had a Lark Associates controller that exhausted all the head/sector number translation options, and, having done that, split the drive in to two logical drives, then lied to the system and told it that it had two PHYSICAL drives. That was clever! It was the only way to get the Maxtor and Miniscribe drives I had, with >750 MB capacity to work on a PC, and it did that quite well. Unfortunately, the controller caught fire one day ... ... so I gave the larger ESDI drives I had away. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 12:15 PM Subject: Re: ESDI drives > > > > > > No, it's a pretty low-level interface, like ST506/412. I read somewhere > > > that it was designed as an enhanced/faster ST412 interface, possibly by > > > Maxtor and Miniscribe, and I think Maxtor used to have some information on > > > their website. All I can find now, though, is a line in their glossary. > > > > > It's not low-level in the sense in which ST506/412 works, in that the drive > > doesn't rely on the controller to modulate/demodulate the data stream, nor does > > it rely on the controller to micro-control the head positioning. It responds to > > high-level commands, e.g. "format the track" and executes them as determined by > > drive-resident firmware rather than a controller-determined protocol, more or > > less as does the SCSI, though it doesn't buffer the data and it doesn't do its > > own error correction. Though the transfer rates are pretty high, because the > > controller does so much of the work, and because raw data rather than processed > > data flows between drive and controller, parallelism between drives is not > > possible. > > Yes, that's what I thought. It's a bit like SMD or the interface on a > Micropolis 1200. In that the data is transfered 'raw' (so the controller > has to decode the bitstream, do error detection/correction, etc) but > things like head movement are done at a higher level than 'step one track > towards the spindle'. > > I guess what I meant by a 'spec' is : > > Pinouts > Signal descriptions > How to send commands/read status > What the commands are. > > -tony > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 8 14:12:30 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <004301c0c05f$f696d4c0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: Re: just outta curiosity > On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, bill claussen wrote: > > One of the things I am doing to promote appreciation of old computers and > computer history amongst the younger generation is preparing a > mini-lecture on computer history that I plan to give at local schools (for > free of course). My idea is to show them how we got to where we are today > with computing technology, for example showing them an evolution of disk > drive technology by comparing a ZIP drive to a 3.5" to a 5.25" to an 8" to My APPLE ][ plus came with CP/M manuals. Reading them I found a reference to the new mini diskettes, they were referring to 5.25" floppies. Browsing in used book stores this weekend I found TI, heathkit, Intel and Motorola chip reference books and a manual for my Amstrad 1640. I'm afraid that many of the older machines won't even be recognised as an old computer by people who started out with a Pentium. When I ask if they have any old hardware they say that they had a Pentium 100 but it was too old and they threw it out. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Apr 8 14:20:51 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <15056.40106.754846.464611@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Apr 08, 2001 01:15:22 PM Message-ID: <200104081920.NAA08596@calico.litterbox.com> > > Like what? Even SGI is going to WinBlows/Intel platforms. > > Yeah, they've been saying that for years. I don't know of anyone > who's bought one. I've been betting for some time that we'll see some kind of fusion between SGI and Apple. They represent the high and low end of the same world, respectively, Apple now has a Unix-ish OS to port SGI tools to, I believe both companies are using PCI busses... Imagine if you will a dual or quad 733 g4 with SGI video and software *AND* still able to run the entire MacOS software world, and equipped with a professional DVD burner at 8-10,000 dollars(US). Imagine THAT on movie credits: Special effects hardware and software, Apple Computer, Inc. Call it the SGI-mac? Too silly? Just a thought. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Apr 8 14:23:01 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online Message-ID: Yesterday's post brought four CDs filled with TIFFs of PDP-11 (and related) prints. They're available at: http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp It's nothing more than a pile of directories and a boatload of files, each of which is on the order of several megabytes. If you're planning on pulling a bunch of these down it might be a good idea to contact me and see if it isn't possible to deliver the stuff to you on CDs... Cheers, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 8 14:24:55 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: <6f.13bcfd8a.28021507@aol.com> In a message dated 4/8/01 3:20:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KenzieM@sympatico.ca writes: << My APPLE ][ plus came with CP/M manuals. Reading them I found a reference to the new mini diskettes, they were referring to 5.25" floppies. Browsing in used book stores this weekend I found TI, heathkit, Intel and Motorola chip reference books and a manual for my Amstrad 1640. I'm afraid that many of the older machines won't even be recognised as an old computer by people who started out with a Pentium. When I ask if they have any old hardware they say that they had a Pentium 100 but it was too old and they threw it out. >> WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE?!? i have a little shelf that has all of my old processors sitting on it....since the machines wouldnt work....i have a processor from every generation of the X86...some Atari processors...and i think actually a few gaming console processors.... From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 8 14:31:47 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD0BCA3.69F72BD9@internet1.net> Tony, Haven't read all of your message yet, but wanted to fire this off, before I head out the door. I don't blame someone so much for not wanting to learn, as much as I dislike it when they don't respect it. For instance, I have friends that always make fun of my old computers. I don't blame them for not being interested, but it makes me irritaed sometimes when they come down on me for liking them. Granted, since we are friend we don't come down to hard on each other, but still..... Now, if it is a job situation, then I believe people are obligated to learn about stuff, and can be upsetting when they don't. Hopefully, I haven't taken your statements out of context.... like I said, I didn't get through your whole message. This is one of those times I am checking email, when I should be doing something else :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tony Duell wrote: > There is nothing wrong with not being knowledgeable about something. The > attitude I don't like, though, is not wanting to learn. From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 8 14:41:42 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <200104081920.NAA08596@calico.litterbox.com> References: <200104081920.NAA08596@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Mergers like that are generally the way for smaller companies to remain in business and if each peice added something worthwhile to the whole, then I wouldn't say it'd be a bad idea. It'd hopefully expand the total marketshare of the end company and strengthen their position. As has been noted before, I'm all for anything that keeps alternatives to the Wintel world alive as we'll be in deep doodoo the day it becomes the absolute only game in town. Jeff > > > Like what? Even SGI is going to WinBlows/Intel platforms. >> >> Yeah, they've been saying that for years. I don't know of anyone >> who's bought one. > > I've been betting for some time that >we'll see some kind of fusion between SGI and Apple. They represent the high >and low end of the same world, respectively, Apple now has a Unix-ish OS >to port SGI tools to, I believe both companies are using PCI busses... >Imagine if you will a dual or quad 733 g4 with SGI video and software *AND* >still able to run the entire MacOS software world, and equipped with a >professional DVD burner at 8-10,000 dollars(US). Imagine THAT on movie >credits: Special effects hardware and software, Apple Computer, Inc. >Call it the SGI-mac? Too silly? > > >Just a thought. :) > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 8 14:49:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: <3AD0B56A.7EF4580B@ecubics.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408112133.01eb16b0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408122659.02bf8570@208.226.86.10> There were several of these cards. DEC eventually came out with their own versions (starting with the GIGI and then the VT240, VT340, etc) I've seen the GIGI called a VK100 but it isn't Vt100 compatible. Since 'Tek4010' was the universal language of graphics at the time, this is the most emulation mode. All my graphics terminals can do TEK4010 emulation to a greater or lesser degree. --Chuck >In the beginning of the '80 I was sitting on a VT100 with an >additional/optional >"selenar graphics board" > >Anybody out here, ever heard of such beast or has one ? > >As far as I remember, it had an z80 on it, and was emulating an >Tektronix 4010 or something similar. > >Had a lot of fun with it ;-) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 8 14:54:33 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: HP 9000 520" (Apr 8, 13:11) References: <3.0.1.16.20010406220259.23df9a28@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3ACE7C27.C878B6ED@atari-history.com> <3.0.1.16.20010407095707.3b0fde5c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010408131126.3b9f4778@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <10104082054.ZM5519@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 8, 13:11, Joe wrote: > At 03:12 PM 4/7/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > > What about the NEWER "good" stuff? > > Like what? Even SGI is going to WinBlows/Intel platforms. Is it? I've seen precisely one SGI Wintel box (which got sent back), and the CEO who introduced that idea has gone. Most of what SGI seems to be doing now is firmly back in the MIPS/IRIX camp, I'm glad to say. With a generous dose of Linux. How far it'll go is anybody's guess, of course. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 8 14:57:50 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: New Finds In-Reply-To: Iggy Drougge "Re: New Finds" (Apr 8, 18:02) References: Message-ID: <10104082057.ZM5523@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 8, 18:02, Iggy Drougge wrote: > On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Mark Green wrote: > > > THe keyboards are non-standard, so its a good thing you found them. > > What does a "standard" keyboard look like? Ha! Good question. What Mark probably means is a PS/2 keyboard, which later SGIs use. Suns, however, also use proprietary keyboards and mice (unique serial protocol), at least until recently -- the new SunBlades are USB-only. Yuk. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From azog at azog.org Sun Apr 8 15:02:36 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <6f.13bcfd8a.28021507@aol.com> Message-ID: <001c01c0c066$dbf15f80$0a00a8c0@azog> Well, I for one could give you stories that would raise the hairs on the back of your neck. I used to work in a "second-hand" computer shop, affiliated with a recycling firm. They would take things that looked suitable and sell them. Things that looked "interesting" would go into a warehouse. Things that nobody knew, or obviously were "outdated" were hammered and melted for gold. In ~1993 I once asked the guy if he had any suitable machines to run Unix, and he said "what?". I did get a fair share of decent stuff from this place. After about a year or so, they gave up on anything that was non-Intel and would just melt it down regardless... I know that several VAX 780s, 750s, and periphs meet with unfortunate fates... I saved a 730 and an 11/73 for $100 each (no longer have them)... The moral of the story? If there is one, it's about cluelessness being the accepted norm, and an anti-educational mindset. "Computers? I'm ub3r7ee7 hax0r, I can take down amazon in 10 minutes!", from someone who doesn't understand, nor could ever fathom, that some machines actually had 36-bits, or even 17- and 18- bits, or that one time, a "bit" in a processor was several physical devices you could actually hold... Me, I'm not that old, but I love the machines :) > > WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE?!? > i have a little shelf that has all of my old processors sitting on > it....since the machines wouldnt work....i have a processor from every > generation of the X86...some Atari processors...and i think actually a few > gaming console processors.... > From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Apr 8 15:04:35 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD0BCA3.69F72BD9@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> In that the equipment on the plane may fall into the classic category, this message might be on-topic...... Kinda. I think the Chinese are holding our people and demanding an impossible apology to give themselves time to hack whatever is left of the gear aboard our plane. Please do send your thoughts on this to: chinaembassy_us@fmprc.gov.cn This is the e-mail address of the Chinese Embassy in Washington DC. Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Apr 8 15:16:47 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Without searchable archives (and any reasonable reference to look for) it > would take an act of Jehova to find what you're speaking of. > > I guess I understand if you just don't want to talk about it :? I don't know all of the details about it either. In fact, I don't think I know really any details about it. I did not keep the original posting around, as it was two or so years ago. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 15:37:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <3AD0BCA3.69F72BD9@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 8, 1 03:31:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 951 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/cab4f742/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 14:28:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > You know, I really liked Jeffrey's observation, but Sellam's > reply gave me a good chuckle. My thoughts on it are that history is > something to be passed on, with as little personal bias and as much > fact as possible, so that the same mistakes aren't repeated. Often, > it takes the fresh eyes to bring something into proper perspective > when the original participants are too close to the problem to see it > in an unbiased light. Good point. Revisionist historians are oft times derided for trying to see into events things the actual participants claim was just not the case. But sometimes it's really their own personal biases that taint their memories. It's important to collect as many objects, stories, and data as possible today, so that tomorrow's historians can paint an accurate picture of what when on we were in the midst of it all. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 14:29:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <00b201c0c053$26c2e7e0$9515a38e@98box> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Lanny Cox wrote: > Now, from another front, the older guys (and gals) around here > probably were in the perfect spot for new technology, some witnessing > the moon landing as a kid or teenager, and being caught up in the > microcomputer revolution. I'm not one to guess, but I figure that > living in Silicon Valley in the mid to late 70s must have been utterly > amazing. Even these days, it still is pretty amazing, actually :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 8 15:42:11 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <6f.13bcfd8a.28021507@aol.com> <001c01c0c066$dbf15f80$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <000901c0c06c$6430e1e0$9515a38e@98box> Hmmmm.... so amazingly true. And the worse fact is that the reason most of these cracker (notice i didn't say hacker) types get thrown in the pen is due to their overwhelming ignorance and stupidity. Seriously though, this is an increasing problem. Many supposedly educated computer types still refer to a tower as a "hard drive" and a processor (be it whatever it is) as a "Pentium". -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Billy D'Augustine To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: Re: just outta curiosity > Well, I for one could give you stories that would raise the hairs on the > back of your neck. I used to work in a "second-hand" computer shop, > affiliated with a recycling firm. They would take things that looked > suitable and sell them. Things that looked "interesting" would go into a > warehouse. Things that nobody knew, or obviously were "outdated" were > hammered and melted for gold. In ~1993 I once asked the guy if he had any > suitable machines to run Unix, and he said "what?". I did get a fair share > of decent stuff from this place. After about a year or so, they gave up on > anything that was non-Intel and would just melt it down regardless... I know > that several VAX 780s, 750s, and periphs meet with unfortunate fates... I > saved a 730 and an 11/73 for $100 each (no longer have them)... > > The moral of the story? If there is one, it's about cluelessness being the > accepted norm, and an anti-educational mindset. "Computers? I'm ub3r7ee7 > hax0r, I can take down amazon in 10 minutes!", from someone who doesn't > understand, nor could ever fathom, that some machines actually had 36-bits, > or even 17- and 18- bits, or that one time, a "bit" in a processor was > several physical devices you could actually hold... Me, I'm not that old, > but I love the machines :) > > > > > WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE?!? > > i have a little shelf that has all of my old processors sitting on > > it....since the machines wouldnt work....i have a processor from every > > generation of the X86...some Atari processors...and i think actually a few > > gaming console processors.... > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 8 15:47:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <3AD0A639.4365D095@eoni.com> Message-ID: > > > Define "kid." > > Anyone so young that they were born after the development of FORTRAN? > Would that be FORTRAN IV or FORTRAN 77? You're right -- there were some later variants. Does anyone here remember: PDQ Fortran on the 1620 WATFOR on the 360 Microsoft Fortran on the TRS-80 Microsoft/IBM FORTRAN 77? for the PC: slower on benchmarks than interpreted BASIC! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 8 15:53:10 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD0CFB3.9896CA26@eoni.com> Jeff, Not to start a flame war, but... I felt stongly about the subject until a friend asked, " What would *we* be doing if the roles were reversed?" Answer. Except for the apology part, EXACTLY the same thing. We would hold the flight crew in seclusion pending a determination of whether they wished to defect or not. Our 'experts' would be taking the aircraft apart. We would be stalling the other side until our 'experts' were finished. Jim From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 8 15:53:10 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <986763190.3ad0cfb6522af@email.ou.edu> Quoting Tony Duell : > > Quoting Demon02554@aol.com: > > > just wondering....am i the only kid on this list? > > > > It depends on your definition of 'kid'. I'm 22, but I am probably > > near the young end of the distribution as well. The fact that we're > > young, however, does not make us any less deserving of the pleasure > > of exploring the history of computing through classic computers. > > Agredd 100%. > ... > > I can well remember my first PDP11. As I have said before, this was my > first complex minicomputer (and it is complex -- about 1000 TTL chips > in the CPU area alone), I had peripherals, the wrong memory board, and > no user manual. I really didn't have a clue what I was doing at the > start. But by spending many months (seriously) reading the schematic > diagrams, figuring out what the chips were and then how various > sections worked, I finally got it to run a program. It took a long > time, but that didn't bother me. I'm actually going to get my first PDP11 this summer, and I'll be in a situation similar to yours. There are many things that I need to learn, much money to be spent (preparing its home, moving it, the electrician), and much time to be used before I will be able to really get down and dirty with the machine, but I am still unbelievably excited about it all. My sincerest thanks go to the list member who has made this possible for me. You know who you are. > I was learning about stuff I was interested it :-) Yes. Though I said I "need to learn", I also very much want to learn. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 14:40:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <22.147abc85.28021065@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > of them....and if need be i'll go find the info i need on my own...its > amazing what you can do when you dont have a girlfriend or much life > outside of school....heh Ah yes, to be young and naive again :) The one thing you can never have enough of is time. Use it wisely to avoid regrets later on in life (moral of the story: get a friend and a life now...they will become equally as important later on). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 14:42:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <004301c0c05f$f696d4c0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > Browsing in used book stores this weekend I found TI, heathkit, Intel > and Motorola chip reference books and a manual for my Amstrad 1640. > I'm afraid that many of the older machines won't even be recognised as > an old computer by people who started out with a Pentium. When I ask > if they have any old hardware they say that they had a Pentium 100 but > it was too old and they threw it out. Case in point: On Friday I found a SpectraVideo 328 sitting on top of a pile of PC keyboards in a display case. It was a very nice find, considering they are not common (in the US at least) and was only $5.99 :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From curt at atari-history.com Sun Apr 8 16:06:59 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD0D2F3.E65E3CB5@atari-history.com> Hmmmm, I'd have to agreed, quite frankly if it were the other way around, we'd have the NSA, CIA and everyone other "A"cronym crawling all over some captured piece of technology wanting to get whatever we could from it before having to return it to its rightful owners. The catch 22 here is the "Black Box" in the plane, which would basically tell exactly what happened up there and whether or not the plane made the supposed sudden turn or if the Chinese fighter jockey was playing it a little too close to the cuff and crashed into the plane. Curt THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > In that the equipment on the plane may fall into the classic category, > this message might be on-topic...... Kinda. > > I think the Chinese are holding our people and demanding an impossible > apology to give themselves time to hack whatever is left of the gear > aboard our plane. > > Please do send your thoughts on this to: > > chinaembassy_us@fmprc.gov.cn > > This is the e-mail address of the Chinese Embassy in Washington DC. > > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. > > Regards, > > Jeff > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 8 16:02:37 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: <105.17b246b.28022bed@aol.com> In a message dated 4/8/01 5:01:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foo@siconic.com writes: << Ah yes, to be young and naive again :) The one thing you can never have enough of is time. Use it wisely to avoid regrets later on in life (moral of the story: get a friend and a life now...they will become equally as important later on). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >> heh it was a joke dude....but oh well....i used to have one...just in between now... From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Apr 8 15:58:54 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <000901c0c06c$6430e1e0$9515a38e@98box> Message-ID: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> No kidding. Folks often refer to thier computer in terms of what they use it for most. I often hear folks refer to thier computer as a "modem". I suppose they do this because that is the main function of the machine for them - being spammed by AOL. Some call it thier 'hard drive'. Some call it thier 'Windows'. I was lurking a bit today and saw some messages in this thread which touched on this peeve of mine: A quote from someone somewhere not on this list: "Any sufficeintly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" I suffix this with: "If you don't look under the hood". Most people today use technology continuously but accept those technologies as facts of nature. To most, the telephone alone - a pretty simple peice of gear, has no underlying explanation other than magic because they are too stupid or complacent to observe the roots of the technology and understand it. The herd mentality is killing creativity and hampering our understanding of our social being. You will find many millions who say "nuclear power and nuclear bombs are bad", but you will find that nearly noone can draw a crude diagram of a gun-type fission bomb, explain what fission is, or explain how a nuclear power plant works. This ignorance, in my mind, invalidates thier opinion on any aspect of technology. If you are illiterate, you will have a hard time voting if you get my meaning. Regards, Jeff In <000901c0c06c$6430e1e0$9515a38e@98box>, on 04/08/01 at 04:58 PM, "Lanny Cox" said: >Seriously though, this is an increasing problem. Many supposedly educated >computer types still refer to a tower as a "hard drive" and a processor >(be it whatever it is) as a "Pentium". -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Apr 8 16:08:47 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408122659.02bf8570@208.226.86.10> from Chuck McManis at "Apr 8, 2001 12:49:54 pm" Message-ID: <200104082108.f38L8lW02547@bg-tc-ppp1246.monmouth.com> > There were several of these cards. DEC eventually came out with their own > versions (starting with the GIGI and then the VT240, VT340, etc) I've seen > the GIGI called a VK100 but it isn't Vt100 compatible. Since 'Tek4010' was > the universal language of graphics at the time, this is the most emulation > mode. All my graphics terminals can do TEK4010 emulation to a greater or > lesser degree. > > --Chuck And for those dos boxes out there... mskermit...would do it I think. BTW Kermit-95 is great for use on MS Win32boxes... --(just a happy customer...) Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Apr 8 16:11:11 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <3AD0A9D2.CA63A590@home.net> from Neil Cherry at "Apr 8, 2001 02:11:30 pm" Message-ID: <200104082111.f38LBBQ02637@bg-tc-ppp1246.monmouth.com> > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, > > not made. > > > > Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. > > Ah the BOFH! I was a BOFH and a BUFH (at the same time ;-) > > Sellam have you ever had a disk drive try to sneak up on you while in > the temple of glass? ;-) > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net > http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) If you never raced RP06's across the floor on a PDP11 or Vax you're too young. -Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 8 16:12:35 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: FORTRAN was just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD0D440.FA4C0056@eoni.com> FWIW, I actually possess the distro diskettes for Microsoft FORTRAN on a 68000 Mac. Jim From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Apr 8 16:22:26 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: PDP11/23 free to anyone who wants one. In-Reply-To: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010408212004.WFEA1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I have a PDP11/23 that I've finally admitted to myself I won't fix. It is in a slim tower BAxx case with all needed to run. I think it has power supply issues as it will work from time to time, for a few minutes and then freak out. Want it? It's yours for the cost of shipping and packing materials. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 8 16:21:20 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: <105.17b246b.28022bed@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408141459.0291e480@208.226.86.10> I don't recall exactly when it was, but I not too long ago I found myself dealing with the "tediousness" of using a computer. To consider a computer tedious was, for me, such a shock that I had to ponder the implications of that. The result of that pondering was that for my tools, I needed them to work correctly and they rarely were, and getting them fixed was tedious. However I also realized that for the "PC" at least a lot of the wonder had gone out of computers. I remember clearly the FORTRAN printout that computed the impact point of a free falling object dropped from 5,000 feet in a uniform gravity gradient and a perfect vacuum :-) I printed x & y co-ordinates of the object for every tenth second and got 20 pages or so of numbers. That was WONDERful. Writing a PL/I program to use overstrikes to print multi-shaded histograms on a line printer attached to a 370 was pretty fun to. Figuring out what my graphics program on Win98 wasn't seeing mouse events was TEDIOUS. So much of my motivation is driven by the wonder of what the system can do with what it has that I find VAXen and PDP-11s much more impressive than 1.5Ghz Pentium IVs. Capturing the wonder is my secret ingredient to learning. --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 8 16:32:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Revisionism is fine as long as you have the documentation, 1st hand accounts, and anything else to back it up. One problem with being a participant though, especially if it's something on a grand scale, is that rarely do you get to see anything other than the smallest piece of the pie. One has to wonder though how much of what is written as 'factual history' would actually be proved wrong if more hard core data was available? A good example is the Dynalogic Hyperion and Commodore link. During my initial research on the machine, I found vague references to the possibility that Commodore had at least thought of producing them. Not even Jim Brain's site had anything hard on the connection. Then a few months later I started talking to an ex-Commodore UK employee and he explained the link to me, which I've documented on my page. Granted, it's not written documentation, but it is direct from someone who is said to have been part of it. Not a big piece of the puzzle, but saved from nearly being forgotten all the same. Jeff >Good point. Revisionist historians are oft times derided for trying to >see into events things the actual participants claim was just not the >case. But sometimes it's really their own personal biases that taint >their memories. > >It's important to collect as many objects, stories, and data as possible >today, so that tomorrow's historians can paint an accurate picture of what >when on we were in the midst of it all. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Apr 8 16:42:44 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <986763190.3ad0cfb6522af@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AD0DB54.44A8BE4@idirect.com> >Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > I'm actually going to get my first PDP11 this summer, and I'll be in a > situation similar to yours. There are many things that I need to learn, > much money to be spent (preparing its home, moving it, the electrician), > and much time to be used before I will be able to really get down and > dirty with the machine, but I am still unbelievably excited about it > all. Jerome Fine replies: I still can remember when I bought my first PDP-11. It was a VT103 box with a DSD 880/8 for the hard disk drive and floppy. I had already used RT-11 for over a decade at that point, but could never cost justify my own system. > My sincerest thanks go to the list member who has made this possible for > me. You know who you are. Have you decided which OS(s) you are going to run. If you need help with RT-11, perhaps I can find some manuals for you. But they are very heavy. Even if free, the shipping will cost a fair bit. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 17:06:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 8, 1 01:47:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/086038f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 17:10:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986763190.3ad0cfb6522af@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Apr 8, 1 03:53:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1145 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/42def5f2/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 8 17:17:46 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: DEC Pro380 Mainboard Wanted Message-ID: <200104082217.f38MHkf12830@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have a Pro380 with a bad mainboard. I've got someone from this list checking to see if he has a spare, but I'd like to see if anyone else has a spare for sale, just in case. Thanks. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 8 17:21:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: Burroughs E6000 Message-ID: <200104082221.f38ML1n12849@narnia.int.dittman.net> The first computer I had close-up experience with was a Burroughs E6000. This was a low-end business system that my grandfather's business used for doing payroll. After the system was retired it was stuck in a garage. About 20 years ago I claimed the unit but given that I don't have the space all I took was the schematics and build list (the unit is still in the garage waiting for me to do whatever with it). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 17:20:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Apr 8, 1 04:58:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2441 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/76f4c0ac/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 17:29:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408141459.0291e480@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 8, 1 02:21:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1833 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010408/bb62355b/attachment.ksh From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 8 17:37:04 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <3AD0DB54.44A8BE4@idirect.com> References: <986763190.3ad0cfb6522af@email.ou.edu> <3AD0DB54.44A8BE4@idirect.com> Message-ID: <986769424.3ad0e810c29a3@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jerome Fine : > Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > > I'm actually going to get my first PDP11 this summer > > I still can remember when I bought my first PDP-11. It was a VT103 > box with a DSD 880/8 for the hard disk drive and floppy. I had > already used RT-11 for over a decade at that point, but could never > cost justify my own system. > > Have you decided which OS(s) you are going to run. If you need help > with RT-11, perhaps I can find some manuals for you. But they are > very heavy. Even if free, the shipping will cost a fair bit. My original inroad to classic computing was the discovery of Unix many years ago (well, many to me), so I am admittedly biased towards it. However, I plan on trying out all the major OSes that ran on machines like my future one(s), including RT11. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 8 17:38:29 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: Magic (was Re: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408153353.0229c300@208.226.86.10> At 11:20 PM 4/8/01 +0100, Tony wrote: > > "Any sufficeintly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" > > > > I suffix this with: "If you don't look under the hood". > >Is this related to the the fact that I've met many people, including >computer scientists, who believe there's something magical about a >processor, and that it can't be understood in terms of simple gates and >flip-flops? > >I don't know where that myth comes from, but a few hours with a >minicomputer technical manual is the best way I know to remove it :-) It actually came from Arthur C. Clarke and its getting a bit scary. Consider the quantum teleportation of photons, or stopping light, or room temperature superconductors using carbon nanotubes, or Extreme UV Lithography where the chips look like so much glass even with a really powerful microscope. There are things where you _cannot_ look under the hood without some serious tools and to those of us who don't understand computers at all, this is for all intents and purposes magic. Recent work in photonic switches will yield I/O cards that look like solid black bricks. You slide them into the case and they start working "magically". Organic LED displays are going to put full color displays into wall paper. Touch the wall and a window appears, on the Alps, in real time. Yup, its going to be an interesting century. --Chuck From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 8 17:40:44 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <986769644.3ad0e8ec2ad4b@email.ou.edu> Quoting Tony Duell : > > the electrician > > That's one expense I would never have. I'd do the mains wiring > myself. After all, if I can't get the 3 wires of a mains cable the > right way round, what hope do I have when I've got the > connections on the Unibus to sort out :-). It's just the risk of sudden death that scares me... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 8 18:04:59 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: PDP11/23 free to anyone who wants one. Message-ID: <27.139f198c.2802489b@aol.com> how much for shipping....im interested From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Apr 8 18:24:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: PDP11/23 free to anyone who wants one. In-Reply-To: <27.139f198c.2802489b@aol.com> from "Demon02554@aol.com" at "Apr 8, 1 07:04:59 pm" Message-ID: <200104082324.QAA10518@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Still available? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Due to budget cuts, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off. - From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 8 18:35:52 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986769644.3ad0e8ec2ad4b@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Apr 8, 1 05:40:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1210 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/881e650c/attachment.ksh From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 8 18:40:35 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: PDP11/23 free to anyone who wants one. Message-ID: i called it first...heh Robert Cobbins From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Apr 8 19:07:04 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:01:59 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3AD0D2F3.E65E3CB5@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <00b401c0c089$02807740$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:36 AM Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > The catch 22 here is the "Black Box" in the plane, which would > basically tell exactly what happened up there and whether or not the plane > made the supposed sudden turn or if the Chinese fighter jockey was playing > it a little too close to the cuff and crashed into the plane. Military aircraft do not normally carry flight data recorders. This would be a Bad Thing if the aircraft were shot down and had details of it's course and speed, not to mention cockpit conversations and radio traffic prior to being shot down. Any GPS or other positioning data would have been flushed prior to landing, since it would have been on the destruction list. There are several variants to the scenario (this is part of the reason the crew are still being held) but the most likely, and eliminating as much rhetoric as possible, is that the Finback was either holding formation way too close and they contacted during the course of normal flight and manouvering, or the Finback was doing a 'thump' pass and misjudged and they hit. Some reports indicate that the Finback hit the prop on the way past, let me tell you that a 16' diameter prop on a 7,500 SHP gas turbine will ruin your whole day. (Another account is that the Finback pilot ejected ok, but into one of the props. Ick.) In either case, if the matter is not resolved within a reasonable time frame, it is reasonable to assume the US will take action against China in some form, (though I doubt if they will do anything before the crew are returned, realistically, they are less worried about the aircraft itself) probably this action will take the form of commissioning a new, well armed, aircraft carrier off the coast of China. USS Taiwan by name. (Basically, I expect the US to give Taiwan anything on it's shopping list) China's entry to the WTO would now be seriously in doubt, and I'd say they can forget the 2008 Olympics. My 02c worth. Now back to our regularly scheduled Classic Computers. FLGOFF (AIRTC) Geoff Roberts FLTCDR No. 14 (City of Port Pirie) Flight S.A. Squadron Air Training Corps geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 8 19:40:45 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > No kidding. Folks often refer to thier computer in terms of what they use > it for most. > . . . > Some call it thier 'hard drive'. Some call it thier 'Windows'. So, I should call it my 'blue screen'? > "Any sufficeintly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" George Morrow suffixed it with: "or a rigged demonstration" Speaking of which: Does anyone here have a copy of "Quotations of Chairman Morrow"? A xerox or disk file would be fine. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 8 19:52:26 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <00b401c0c089$02807740$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: Do you remember when we would call that "an Army weather plane doing meteorological research"? When did we start calling them spy planes? What WOULD we do if the roles were reversed? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 19:17:07 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <105.17b246b.28022bed@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/8/01 5:01:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foo@siconic.com > writes: > > << Ah yes, to be young and naive again :) > > The one thing you can never have enough of is time. Use it wisely to > avoid regrets later on in life (moral of the story: get a friend > and a life now...they will become equally as important later on). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > >> > heh > it was a joke dude....but oh well....i used to have one...just in between > now... Well at any rate, I was being very serious ;) One should never put their hobbies before their relationships with people. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 19:20:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Most people today use technology continuously but accept those > technologies as facts of nature. To most, the telephone alone - a > pretty simple peice of gear, has no underlying explanation other than > magic because they are too stupid or complacent to observe the roots > of the technology and understand it. Or maybe it never occured to them to understand what's going on inside because it doesn't matter to them. It is a tool, just like a hammer or a fork. How it works is inconsquential to, for instance, a mother raising 3 kids. > The herd mentality is killing creativity and hampering our > understanding of our social being. You will find many millions who say > "nuclear power and nuclear bombs are bad", but you will find that > nearly noone can draw a crude diagram of a gun-type fission bomb, > explain what fission is, or explain how a nuclear power plant works. > This ignorance, in my mind, invalidates thier opinion on any aspect of > technology. This sounds more like lack of good educational systems, something the US is well known for. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 19:25:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408141459.0291e480@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > Figuring out what my graphics program on Win98 wasn't seeing mouse events > was TEDIOUS. I know EXACTLY what you mean. We've gotten to the point where some systems are so complex that if any of the multitude of layers between the CPU and the UI has a problem we have to spend valuable debugging THOSE problems rather than working on what we set out to do. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 19:29:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Revisionism is fine as long as you have the documentation, 1st > hand accounts, and anything else to back it up. One problem with > being a participant though, especially if it's something on a grand > scale, is that rarely do you get to see anything other than the > smallest piece of the pie. One has to wonder though how much of what > is written as 'factual history' would actually be proved wrong if more > hard core data was available? A good example is the Dynalogic > Hyperion and Commodore link. During my initial research on the > machine, I found vague references to the possibility that Commodore > had at least thought of producing them. Not even Jim Brain's site had > anything hard on the connection. Then a few months later I started > talking to an ex-Commodore UK employee and he explained the link to > me, which I've documented on my page. Granted, it's not written > documentation, but it is direct from someone who is said to have been > part of it. Not a big piece of the puzzle, but saved from nearly > being forgotten all the same. Very cool! This is the kind of information I was speaking of when I said it is very important to collect this data now before these first hand sources pass on. I was watching the movie Apollo 13 last night and realized how cool it is to still be able to shake the hand of the man that first stepped foot on the moon. I hope someday, somehow, I get that experience so I can tell my grandkids :) One great thing about living in the part of the world where I do is that you routinely run into giants of the computing age. As an example, any Computer Museum event you attend affords you the opportunity to not only see Gordon Bell, but to actually go up to him, shake his hand, and talk to him about the computers he designed! Now THAT'S cool! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 19:30:55 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Burroughs E6000 In-Reply-To: <200104082221.f38ML1n12849@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > The first computer I had close-up experience with was a Burroughs > E6000. This was a low-end business system that my grandfather's > business used for doing payroll. After the system was retired it was > stuck in a garage. About 20 years ago I claimed the unit but given > that I don't have the space all I took was the schematics and build > list (the unit is still in the garage waiting for me to do whatever > with it). Wow! I hope the machine is still sitting in the garage? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 8 21:01:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <001d01c0c099$06ae7640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What about all those who have the one INSTEAD of the other? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: Re: just outta curiosity > On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/8/01 5:01:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foo@siconic.com > > writes: > > > > << Ah yes, to be young and naive again :) > > > > The one thing you can never have enough of is time. Use it wisely to > > avoid regrets later on in life (moral of the story: get a friend > > and a life now...they will become equally as important later on). > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > >> > > heh > > it was a joke dude....but oh well....i used to have one...just in between > > now... > > Well at any rate, I was being very serious ;) One should never put their > hobbies before their relationships with people. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 8 21:13:39 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Burroughs E6000 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Apr 08, 2001 05:30:55 PM Message-ID: <200104090213.f392Dde13452@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > The first computer I had close-up experience with was a Burroughs > > E6000. This was a low-end business system that my grandfather's > > business used for doing payroll. After the system was retired it was > > stuck in a garage. About 20 years ago I claimed the unit but given > > that I don't have the space all I took was the schematics and build > > list (the unit is still in the garage waiting for me to do whatever > > with it). > > Wow! I hope the machine is still sitting in the garage? Yes, it is still in the garage. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 8 21:12:18 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD11A82.ADE823A5@internet1.net> Tony, Ok, seems like we are on the same wave length. I agree with you. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Tony, > > > > Haven't read all of your message yet, but wanted to fire this off, > > before I head out the door. > > > > I don't blame someone so much for not wanting to learn, as much as I > > dislike it when they don't respect it. For instance, I have friends > > I think, perhaps, I wasn't particularly clear (my fault...). > > I can fully understand when somebody doesn't want to learn a particular > thing. Heck, there are plenty of things I have no interest in learning > about. What I can't understand is somebody who has no interest in > learning anything. > > And like you, I dislike it when people don't respect somebody else's > interests (even though they may not share them themselves). > > Another issue is that if you take up a hobby like classic computing, you > are likely to run into problems from time to time. And IMHO, you should > then _want_ to learn whatever is needed to sort those problems. Perhaps I > am going a little too far, then... > > -tony From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Apr 8 22:46:43 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <00b401c0c089$02807740$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from Geoff Roberts at "Apr 9, 2001 09:37:04 am" Message-ID: <20010409034650Z433671-29570+422@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt Vendel" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:36 AM > Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > > > > The catch 22 here is the "Black Box" in the plane, which would > > basically tell exactly what happened up there and whether or not the > plane > > made the supposed sudden turn or if the Chinese fighter jockey was > playing > > it a little too close to the cuff and crashed into the plane. > > Military aircraft do not normally carry flight data recorders. This > would be a Bad Thing if the aircraft were shot down > and had details of it's course and speed, not to mention cockpit > conversations and radio traffic prior to being shot down. > Any GPS or other positioning data would have been flushed prior to > landing, since it would have been on the destruction list. > > There are several variants to the scenario (this is part of the reason > the crew are still being held) but the most likely, and eliminating as > much rhetoric as possible, is that the Finback was either holding > formation way too close and they contacted during the course of normal > flight and manouvering, or the Finback was doing a 'thump' pass and > misjudged and they hit. > Some reports indicate that the Finback hit the prop on the way past, let > me tell you that a 16' diameter prop on a 7,500 SHP gas turbine will > ruin your whole day. (Another account is that the Finback pilot ejected > ok, but into one of the props. Ick.) I've flown back and forth between Canada nd Hong Kong for the past decade, and I'm current living in Hong Kong, so I'm somewhat familiar with that patch of air space. At this time of year there is a lot of turbulence in that region, and I suspect it played a role in the accident. This is somewhat consistent with the reports on the accident. Since the US plane is larger and slower than the Chinese fighters it would be effected more by the turbulence. This would explain the report of its sudden movement into the Chinese fighter. If this is the case, it truely was an accident, and neither side is to blame, just a case of mis-judging distances and weather. > > In either case, if the matter is not resolved within a reasonable time > frame, it is reasonable to assume the US will take action against China > in some form, (though I doubt if they will do anything before the crew > are returned, realistically, they are less worried about the aircraft > itself) probably this action will take the form of commissioning a new, > well armed, aircraft carrier off the coast of China. > USS Taiwan by name. (Basically, I expect the US to give Taiwan anything > on it's shopping list) China's entry to the WTO would now be seriously > in doubt, and I'd say they can forget the 2008 Olympics. The Chinese side of the story has changed somewhat today. The other Chinese pilot has been somewhat dis-credited by the Chinese media for not telling the complete story. It could be that there will be a solution sometime in the next few days. > > My 02c worth. > Now back to our regularly scheduled Classic Computers. > > FLGOFF (AIRTC) Geoff Roberts > FLTCDR > No. 14 (City of Port Pirie) Flight > S.A. Squadron > Air Training Corps > geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au > > > -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 8 21:43:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <001d01c0c099$06ae7640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > What about all those who have the one INSTEAD of the other? If it's just a hobby they have then they need to balance their lives. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Apr 8 22:53:16 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: PDP11/23 free to anyone who wants one. In-Reply-To: <20010408212004.WFEA1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: I have a power supply for a tower BAxx case that probably would work... Available for a nominal fee (to motivate me to box it up) clint On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I have a PDP11/23 that I've finally admitted to myself I won't fix. > > It is in a slim tower BAxx case with all needed to run. I think it has > power supply issues as it will work from time to time, for a few minutes > and then freak out. > > Want it? It's yours for the cost of shipping and packing materials. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > From curt at atari-history.com Sun Apr 8 23:25:59 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Logbooks??? References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD139D6.D9C6A7F5@atari-history.com> Hi everyone, At the Vintage Computer Festival, in all the commotion and meeting everyone, someone approached me and mentioned they had some old Atari engineering logbooks. Unfortunately my brain (what little still works) can't seem to generate enough electricity to remember the persons name. So I'm hoping that person frequents this mailing list, if they do, please send me an email and thanks. Curt From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Apr 8 23:32:48 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <20010409034650Z433671-29570+422@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Mark Green wrote: > Since the US plane is larger and slower than the Chinese fighters it > would be effected more by the turbulence. Based on published data I make the wing loading of the Fishbed as around 77 lb/sq ft at max gross; at max gross the Aires-II comes in at 107 lb/sq ft. If anything the Aires-II should be more stable in turbulence. > This would explain the report of its sudden movement > into the Chinese fighter. There's a bunch of problems with the Chinese claim that the EP-3 made a sudden roll and thus caused the contact: - The photo evidence of the damage isn't consistent with running into another airplane. The prop tips are munched, but the props are still attached to the gearboxes and the gearboxes and engines didn't depart the airframe. The damage is more consistent with colliding with birds -- or debris. - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear damaged. It looks more like the Fishbed was trying to bump the Aries (which essentially consists of passing under the Aires with a delta of about +200 knots and pulling vertical) and wasn't up to the task. The empennage collided with the radome, peeled the radome and part of the empennage off and the Aires in turn plowed through the debris field. > The Chinese side of the story has changed somewhat today. The other > Chinese pilot has been somewhat dis-credited by the Chinese media for > not telling the complete story. Like saying that _he_ gave the downed pilot permission to bail out? Since when does wing give lead permission to do anything (the usual job of wing is to tuck in tight, shut up and listen to guard) -- or was the surviving pilot lead, in which case what was the wingman doing in a position where the only way he could collide with the Aires would have been if the Aires went into Beta thrust? -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 00:17:04 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD0CFB3.9896CA26@eoni.com> References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: >Not to start a flame war, but... Fighter jet and large heavy turboprop spy plane collide, and I think by definition the bulk of the blame has to go on the fighterjet. Want some wild speculation? How about the fighter pilot was INSTRUCTED to crash into the spy plane to force it to land on chinese soil. IMHO Greed, worldwide, is currently blinding people to a proper course of action with China. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 8 23:46:19 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Got it! (was Re: Forgot VMS 072b password) In-Reply-To: <20010408153716.OAOB1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> References: <20010408151148.NOEK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: >There is now a stickynote attached to the monitor with the usernames and >passwords written on it...... Use a piece of tape too, the stickies don't after awhile. From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 9 00:47:49 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > In that the equipment on the plane may fall into the classic category, > this message might be on-topic...... Kinda. Or not at all, even. > I think the Chinese are holding our people and demanding an impossible > apology to give themselves time to hack whatever is left of the gear > aboard our plane. Shouldn't be much left if it was designed with any enginuity. There must have been some kind of self-destruct mechanism, and destroying ICs may be rather simple. > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. Our? From donm at cts.com Mon Apr 9 01:21:56 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: ESDI drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Oh, right. I wondered if it did... Incidentally, is the ESDI spec > > > available anywere (or at least a signal description)? > > > > To what level of detail, Tony? I have a copy of the Maxtor Product Spec > > and OEM Tech Manual for the XT-8000E/EH drives that I can extract some > > information from. > > Well, to start with, a pinout and a brief description of the signals (as > in : DS0-DS2, drive selects, binary coded, 000 = no drive selected). > > I don't really need this, it's just that it's an interface I know nothing > about and think that should be changed :-) First off, the drive pinouts are as follow: ESDI HARD DRIVES HEAD SEL. 3 2 1 GND Though ESDI and ST506/412 drives HEAD SEL. 2 4 _ 3 | share similar looking cables, WRITE GATE 6 5 | even to the point of having a CONFIG/STAT DATA 8 7 | twist, the actual data and con- TRANSFER ACK. 10 9 | trol signals are very different. ATTENTION 12 11 | One should never mix components HEAD SEL. 0 14 13 | from these two drive types. SECT/ADD.MK. FOUND 16 15 | While the ST506/412 interface HEAD SEL. 1 18 17 | utilizes a standard pulse code INDEX 20 19 | to transmit data between the READY 22 21 | drive and controller, ESDI uses TRANS.REQUEST 24 23 | a pulse code that does not require DRIVE SEL. 1 26 25 | the level to return to zero between DRIVE SEL. 2 28 27 | pulses. This format is refered to DRIVE SEL. 3 30 29 | as NRZ, or Non Return to Zero. By READ GATE 32 31 | utilizing NRZ, the clock that data COMMAND DATA 34 33 GND is transfered by can be increased, thereby increasing the throughput to and from the ESDI disk. DRIVE SEL'D 1 2 SECT/ADD.MK. FOUND SEEK COMPLETE 3 _ 4 ADDRESS MARK ENABLE RESV'D FOR STEP MODE 5 6 GND WRITE CLOCK+ 7 8 WRITE CLOCK- CARTRIDGE CHANGED 9 10 READ REF. CLOCK+ READ REF. CLOCK- 11 12 GND NRZ WRITE DATA+ 13 14 NRZ WRITE DATA- GND 15 16 GND NRZ READ DATA+ 17 18 NRZ READ DATA- GND 19 20 GND Note: The above is copied from TheRef v4.3. >From the Maxtor XT8000E/EH Product Specification & OEM Technical Manual 4.2 Drive Selection Drive selection occurs when the controller places the address of the drive to be selected on the three drive select lines. See Figure 4-2, Drive Select Circuit, and Table 4-1, Drive Selection Matrix. Only the selected drive responds to the input signals, and only that drive's output signals are gated to the controller. The details of setting the drive selection jumper are covered in section 8-1, Drive Address Selection Jumper. --------------------/\/\/\---------- | | | ----------------/\/\/\---------|---- +5v | | | | | ------------/\/\/\---------- | | | | | | _________ | | | |Decoder| | | | | 0|- N/C | | | | | --------+---------------| 1|--+ \ Drv Sel 1 | | | 2|--+ | | | | 3|--+ | ------------+-----------| 4|--+ |-- Drive Selected Drv Sel 2 | | 5|--+ | | | 6|--+ | ----------------+-------| 7|--+ / Drv Sel 3 |_______| Figure 4-2 Drive Select Circuit Drive Drive Drive Drive Select Select Select Selected 3 2 1 -------------------------------- None 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 2 0 1 0 3 0 1 1 4 1 0 0 5 1 0 1 6 1 1 0 7 1 1 1 -------------------------------- Table 4-1 Drive Selection Matrix The referenced Table 8-1 merely cites the correspondence of the drive selected and the DSn jumper, where 1=1, 2=2, ... 7=7. ====================================================================== That is about all it covers. - don From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 9 01:33:01 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: > - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome > got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially > given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear > damaged. Was the missing radome collision damage? Or would jettisoning the radome be standard procedure? From blacklord at telstra.com Mon Apr 9 01:40:54 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Message-ID: <12c417129c24.129c2412c417@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Iggy Drougge Date: Monday, April 9, 2001 3:47 pm Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. > > Our? > I agree with that last comment of yours, some people don't seem to realise that this list is world-wide, it definitely isn't "our" plane, & to tell the truth, I couldn't care less - can we get back on topic peoples ? telnet://commodore.thebbs.org ftp://commodore.thebbs.org ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Apr 9 01:50:49 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD15BC9.65BCA6FE@softstar.it> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > So it is not true that "gurus were neophytes once". Gurus are born, > not made. :-) > Ah, nothing like a good rabble rousing to start a Sunday morning. That was a good Monday morning startup.. or should I say human IPL... e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 01:54:49 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >One great thing about living in the part of the world where I do is that >you routinely run into giants of the computing age. As an example, any >Computer Museum event you attend affords you the opportunity to not only >see Gordon Bell, but to actually go up to him, shake his hand, and talk to >him about the computers he designed! Now THAT'S cool! Years ago I used to be a member of the L5 society, and talk about events with interesting people in the space program within touching distance. From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Sun Apr 8 23:28:42 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010408131439.3b9fbc74@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 01:14:39PM -0500 References: <8d.4df24cf.280095be@aol.com> <3.0.1.16.20010408131439.3b9fbc74@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20010409072841.A2202@sd160.local> On Sun, Apr 08, 2001 at 01:14:39PM -0500, Joe wrote: > > Cool. Doesit work? That makes three that I know of including my > half-dead one. > I have two 550's and I know of one 550 more in Finland. The 550 is in a HP-minirack case (like 9144 with height doubled), has two temperature controlled fans in the front, PSU modules on left, processor, memory and IOP stack behind the fans and CIO slots on the back. The one I'm playing around with has three CPUs, 8MB memory, one IOP and four 8-port muxes + an additional HP-IB bus. It was possible (reading from the docs) to add a second IOP and use a CIO extender to a second cab for IO. The second machine doesn't want to boot, halts with "Fever finstrates than expected". I really haven't had the time to investigate yet. In a few months I'll get the machine to a reasonable state with 7935 HD + 7933 HD + 7974A 9-track and a 35401 changer. I know the 500-series is rare (r@r3 L00K!) but I'd like to know about the number of systems sold. Oh yes, if someone wants to give me a few 7933/7925s I might consider a trade for the problematic one (considering shipping; this would apply to Finland/Sweden/Europe unless you're really rich:) I just love the 500-series, especially after seeing the CPU boards:) -- jht From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Mon Apr 9 04:29:20 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: from Chris Kennedy at "Apr 8, 2001 09:32:48 pm" Message-ID: <20010409092924Z433741-25302+342@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > > The Chinese side of the story has changed somewhat today. The other > > Chinese pilot has been somewhat dis-credited by the Chinese media for > > not telling the complete story. > > Like saying that _he_ gave the downed pilot permission to bail out? > Since when does wing give lead permission to do anything (the usual > job of wing is to tuck in tight, shut up and listen to guard) -- or > was the surviving pilot lead, in which case what was the wingman doing > in a position where the only way he could collide with the Aires > would have been if the Aires went into Beta thrust? The report in this morning's paper here (Hong Kong, note that media reports here are usually pro China), is that the surviving pilot asked permission to shoot the US plane down. It did not state whether this request came before or after the collision. This request was obviously not granted. It also stated that the surviving pilot forced the US plane down in Hainan. At the present time the Chinese media seems to be distancing itself from the pilot's story. This would indicate the the Chinese leadership is changing its view of the situation. The pilot was initially good propaganda, get the locals excited and not thinking about local problems, now its time to shut him up so he doesn't get in the way. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From dogbert at mindless.com Mon Apr 9 04:31:03 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <003d01c0c0d7$de2f0920$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ford To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 10:17 PM Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > >Not to start a flame war, but... > Flame-avoiders, skip to the end for a KIM-1 question. The rest, prepare for controversy. :) > Fighter jet and large heavy turboprop spy plane collide, and I think by > definition the bulk of the blame has to go on the fighterjet. Not necessarily. Standard procedure is to harass and play chicken with enemy aircraft approaching your airspace. That means often matching speed and approaching very, very closely. It could as easily have been the prop plane that suddenly maneuvered into the jet. Besides, if it were deliberate, wouldn't the pilot have struck in such a way that survival was likely, especially given the much more vulnerable position of the small jet vs. the huge spy plane in an impact? > > Want some wild speculation? How about the fighter pilot was INSTRUCTED to > crash into the spy plane to force it to land on chinese soil. > I think it was an accident, but let's have some fun and imagine an at least equally likely scenario that USA deliberately hit the Chinese jet. It's a fact that the current Administration has been hell-bent on destroying relations with China and North Korea from the very start -- provoking China by negotiating arms sales with Taiwan, then sabotaging North-South Korea talks in the US by falsely accusing North Korea of violating its treaty obligations (even South Korea agreed it was just one obligation, and the North lived up to it perfectly.) Add to that telling Russia they're "just not that important", and you get the impression the Administration is angling to provoke as much anti-US sentiment in the East as possible. One reasonale analysis might be that it's a deliberate attempt to rekindle a cold war, with China and possibly North Korea this time. (Another is that the US President is a moron.) Not sure how submarines killing Japanese high school kids or then landing a nuclear submarine on Japanese soil in explicit (and unprecedented) violation of US treaties with Japan fits in with the theme exactly, but there can be no question that a major focus of this administration is to damage relations as much as possible in the shortest possible time. There are so many accidents, and diplomatic gaffes, that it reminds me of the famous saying: "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by abject stupidity." It's sad when you wish it's stupidity that explains all this because the alternative is so much worse. Never has a presidency failed so quickly in modern times. The Republican's answer to Jimmy Carter, only far more so. > IMHO Greed, worldwide, is currently blinding people to a proper course of > action with China. > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? I don't think it can be repaired, and If I were to add an external keypad, I'd want it to have the same matrix and legends as the originals if possible. Is there any kind of kit or system where you can make up your own semi- professional looking keypad? Thanks for any pointers. -- Ross From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 05:03:34 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <003d01c0c0d7$de2f0920$1322a8c0@cisco.com> References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: >So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have >any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? Step one, take it apart and see what you have. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Apr 9 05:09:30 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request Message-ID: <01Apr9.113236bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Hi Folks, Curt, would you consider shipping a slab to the UK, and if so how much would it cost me? I think the chances of getting one over here otherwise might be pretty slim! Recent finds: Boxed Atari 520STfm Boxed Amiga A590 hard drive - nice! Like the SCSI out on the back. Odyssey 1 'Baseball' game in practically complete condition Unused boxed Timex Sinclair TS1000 Unused boxed Timex Sinclair TS1500 Unused Timex Sinclair TS2068 - smart :) Even the demo cassette is still wrapped. ICL One-Per-Desk with hi-res monitor in fully working condition; it's even y2k compliant! Mint boxed Sega Megadrive II to go with my Megadrive and MegaCD Commodore CDTV with keyboard and floppy drive - wahey! Another Mac Colour Classic :) I'm a sucker for compact macs, plus it was only ukp10. Mac Performa 5300 Acorn A7000 with monitor and keyboard Acorn A4000 with keyboard (another one) Fileware 'Twiggy' disk for the Lisa 1 :o)) Open University PT502 'Hektor' training machine. Hehe.....goes nicely with the PT501! Requests: Anyone got a spare superfloppy for the Mac Colour Classic? My new one's suffered from the 'dead floppy being pulled out with pliers' syndrome so the r/w heads are munged as is some of the sensory gubbins. And, anyone got a remote control and mouse for the CDTV they don't want any more? . My CDTV works fine but it's difficult to use without the remote..... cheers! -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum, as featured in Computer Weekly!) 0/0 From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Mon Apr 9 01:42:31 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 07:40:07AM -0700 References: <20010406052648.A767@sd160.local> Message-ID: <20010409094230.C2202@sd160.local> On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 07:40:07AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Paul Allen rocks! Literally. Hell, he funded a Jimi Hendrix museum. He > can't be all that bad. Hey, the guy seems to get better and better all the time! But I'm a cynical guy so I'm guessing he probably set it up with Alan Douglas. Try to compare "Crash Landing" or other Douglas "re-created" records with any release of Windows. I say it's all a sinister plot. > > Actually, Paul Allen seems to me to be a real benevolent guy. Kinda like > an Anti-Bill. Here's hoping that's true! -- jht From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 9 05:33:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Apr9.064131edt.119310@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Monday, April 9, 2001, at 06:03 AM, Mike Ford wrote: >> So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have >> any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > Step one, take it apart and see what you have. If the KIM-1 keyboard is of the same type as my VIM-1, there's not much to take apart. Thin pressure sensitive pads soldered directly to the main circuit board. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 9 05:39:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request In-Reply-To: <01Apr9.113236bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <01Apr9.064750edt.119311@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Monday, April 9, 2001, at 06:09 AM, Adrian Graham wrote: > And, anyone got a remote control and mouse for the CDTV they don't want > any more? . My CDTV works fine but it's difficult to use without > the remote..... I've got a CDTV myself, but it's CD-ROM doesn't work. Otherwise it works fine booted from a floppy, acting like an A500. I've got keyboard, wireless mouse, remote and a black Roctek floppy drive. What does your keyboard look like? Mine is black and looks identical to the A3000/A4000 keyboard except for the connector but it doesn't have 'CDTV' below the Amiga logo in the upper right corner and it almost looks like it was spray painted black. The cord and connector don't look like a homebrew job though. Jeff From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Apr 9 04:45:48 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: O.T. - Virus: FOOT-AND-MOUTH Message-ID: <3AD14C8C.30592.164844AD@localhost> ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Send reply to: <1st-powermacs@mail.maclaunch.com> (1st PowerMacs) To: <1st-powermacs@mail.maclaunch.com> (1st PowerMacs) Date sent: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 07:23:16 -0600 From: aergo Subject: O.T. - Virus: FOOT-AND-MOUTH Have a good week, everyone ! A. ;-) ====================================== Subject: Virus: FOOT-AND-MOUTH ====================================== FOOT-AND-MOUTH BELIEVED TO BE FIRST VIRUS UNABLE TO SPREAD THROUGH MICROSOFT OUTLOOK Researchers Shocked to Finally Find Virus That Email App Doesn't Like Atlanta, Ga. - Scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Symantec's AntiVirus Research Center today confirmed that foot-and-mouth disease cannot be spread by Microsoft's Outlook email application, believed to be the first time the program has ever failed to propagate a major virus. "Frankly, we've never heard of a virus that couldn't spread through Microsoft Outlook, so our findings were, to say the least, unexpected," said Clive Sarnow, director of the CDC's infectious disease unit. The study was immediately hailed by British officials, who said it will save millions of pounds and thousands of man hours. "Up until now we have, quite naturally, assumed that both foot-and-mouth and mad cow were spread by Microsoft Outlook," said Nick Brown, Britain's Agriculture Minister. "By eliminating it, we can focus our resources elsewhere." However, researchers in the Netherlands, where foot-and-mouth has recently appeared, said they are not yet prepared to disqualify Outlook, which has been the progenitor of viruses such as "I Love You," "Bubbleboy," "Anna Kournikova," and "Naked Wife," to name but a few. Said Nils Overmars, director of the Molecular Virology Lab at Leiden University: "It's not that we don't trust the research, it's just that as scientists, we are trained to be skeptical of any finding that flies in the face of established truth. And this one flies in the face like a blind drunk sparrow." Executives at Microsoft, meanwhile, were equally skeptical, insisting that Outlook's patented Virus Transfer Protocol (VTP) has proven virtually pervious to any virus. The company, however, will issue a free VTP patch if it turns out the application is not vulnerable to foot-and-mouth. Such an admission would be embarrassing for the software giant, but Symantec virologist Ariel Kologne insisted that no one is more humiliated by the study than she is. "Only last week, I had a reporter ask if the foot-and-mouth virus spreads through Microsoft Outlook, and I told him, "'Doesn't everything?'" she recalled. "Who would've thought?" ------- End of forwarded message ------- Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Apr 9 06:02:14 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3AD15E76.5201.168E3F2B@localhost> > To be serious (for once) I think it's terrific that "kids" are interested > in old computers. To show an interest in machines that in some cases > predate themselves shows a reverence and appreciation for computer > technology, and this is the type of person the world needs to continue > progress. Seriously. Back in the 50s the US was on such a push to > emphasize technology in schools, but nowadays we are teaching kids how to > be users and nothing more. I'm glad to see younger folks taking it upon > themselves to explore technology at a more fundamental level. These are > the ones who will become the great programmers and engineers of the > future. > > One of the things I am doing to promote appreciation of old computers and > computer history amongst the younger generation is preparing a > mini-lecture on computer history that I plan to give at local schools (for > free of course). My idea is to show them how we got to where we are today > with computing technology, for example showing them an evolution of disk > drive technology by comparing a ZIP drive to a 3.5" to a 5.25" to an 8" to > paper tape to punch cards, etc. And actually bringing the drives in too! > > It won't interest all of them, or even most of them, but the ones that > were waiting to discover computers will certainly "get it", and those are > the ones I want to reach. > > Plus once I get them hooked I can then recruit them to do menial tasks for > the VCF Archives like cataloguing books and schlepping stuff around ;) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > I'd like to see your mini-lecture notes when you're thru. I'm planning on retiring to the boonies of rural Manitoba this summer and have similiar ideas Kid's and seniors are the main inhabitants since most young people leave as there's no work. There's also a large Indian Reserve. Overcoming the seniors techno-fear and showing how these boxes can be more interesting and helpful tools than continuous Bingo games or TV will be challenging to say the least. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Apr 9 06:19:17 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409071052.00a9a3b8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Sellam - I picked up the 1131 (minus keyboard and power supply) from Cornell in February of 1999. IIRC, it had been sitting outside a math professor's office for several years. I haven't done anything with the system since I received it (kind of a _long_ term project), though I did get in touch with a manager at IBM's corporate archives and confirmed that they don't have much in the way of documentation for the system -- no prints or maintenance guide. I guess DEC/CPQ's not the only company to do a crummy job of maintaining their history, though that doesn't really make me feel better... -- Tony At 08:13 AM 4/8/2001 -0700, you wrote: >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, William Donzelli wrote: > > > > Details! :) > > > > Look in the archives, if they still exist. Must be almost two years ago, > > maybe more. > >Without searchable archives (and any reasonable reference to look for) it >would take an act of Jehova to find what you're speaking of. > >I guess I understand if you just don't want to talk about it :? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Apr 9 06:52:37 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409071052.00a9a3b8@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409074936.02ebcdf8@mail.njd.concentric.com> On reflection, maybe "crummy" doesn't sound quite right. The archivist was very helpful, but they simply didn't keep the docs. -- Tony At 07:19 AM 4/9/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Sellam - > >I picked up the 1131 (minus keyboard and power supply) from Cornell in >February of 1999. IIRC, it had been sitting outside a math professor's >office for several years. I haven't done anything with the system since I >received it (kind of a _long_ term project), though I did get in touch >with a manager at IBM's corporate archives and confirmed that they don't >have much in the way of documentation for the system -- no prints or >maintenance guide. > >I guess DEC/CPQ's not the only company to do a crummy job of maintaining >their history, though that doesn't really make me feel better... > >-- Tony > >At 08:13 AM 4/8/2001 -0700, you wrote: >>On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, William Donzelli wrote: >> >> > > Details! :) >> > >> > Look in the archives, if they still exist. Must be almost two years ago, >> > maybe more. >> >>Without searchable archives (and any reasonable reference to look for) it >>would take an act of Jehova to find what you're speaking of. >> >>I guess I understand if you just don't want to talk about it :? >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >>Festival >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>International Man of Intrigue and >>Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Apr 9 07:10:28 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <00b401c0c089$02807740$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3AD0D2F3.E65E3CB5@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409080615.00a60bf0@mail.wincom.net> At 09:37 AM 09/04/2001 +0930, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Curt Vendel" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:36 AM >Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > A friend suggests that the neatness of the opening at the front of the US aircraft suggests that sensitive equipment in the nose may have been jettisoned after the collision. Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Apr 9 08:06:27 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: >> > definition of "kid" = under age 18 >> >> Wrong definition, I suspect :-) Especially if you ask my wife! Probably >> even more so if you ask some of my work colleagues about my collection. >> >> >Reminds me of the old saying "Men are just boys... with more expensive >toys". Certainly Fiona reckons that I need to grow up, playing with >computers and bikes. I might just do that one day but yet, I am only 43. I read a good Wired article, an interview with Arthur C. Clarke on the 25th anniversary of 2001. He said he wanted his epitaph to be this: "He never grew up; but he never stopped growing." That sounds like a good life to me! The full interview at: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.03/clarke.html makes a VERY interesting read, especially his comments on "reality"... Also, to make this slightly on-topic, thanks to all who responded on my Northstar keyboard problem. I am in the middle of selling my house and buying a new one, and the last couple of storms up here in central Massachusetts flooded my basement, so I have been cleaning up from that. I will try things out, and let you all know what's up... Rich B. From curt at atari-history.com Mon Apr 9 08:37:24 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request References: <01Apr9.113236bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3AD1BB14.69D0935D@atari-history.com> Hi Adrian, Sure, I'd be happy to ship one, I'd highly recommend shipping by boat, no air as it'll cost into the hundreds. Do you want a monitor? (its actually a necessity since the keyboard/mouse plug into the monitor and the monitor cable plugs into the slab and also takes its power from the slab.) Let me know and I have no problems lugged down two boxes (1 cpu, 1 monitor) to the post office for you. Curt Adrian Graham wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Curt, would you consider shipping a slab to the UK, and if so how much > would it cost me? I think the chances of getting one over here otherwise > might be pretty slim! > > Recent finds: > > Boxed Atari 520STfm > Boxed Amiga A590 hard drive - nice! Like the SCSI out on the back. > Odyssey 1 'Baseball' game in practically complete condition > Unused boxed Timex Sinclair TS1000 > Unused boxed Timex Sinclair TS1500 > Unused Timex Sinclair TS2068 - smart :) Even the demo cassette is still > wrapped. > ICL One-Per-Desk with hi-res monitor in fully working condition; it's > even y2k compliant! > Mint boxed Sega Megadrive II to go with my Megadrive and MegaCD > Commodore CDTV with keyboard and floppy drive - wahey! > Another Mac Colour Classic :) I'm a sucker for compact macs, plus it was > only ukp10. > Mac Performa 5300 > Acorn A7000 with monitor and keyboard > Acorn A4000 with keyboard (another one) > Fileware 'Twiggy' disk for the Lisa 1 :o)) > Open University PT502 'Hektor' training machine. Hehe.....goes nicely > with the PT501! > > Requests: > > Anyone got a spare superfloppy for the Mac Colour Classic? My new one's > suffered from the 'dead floppy being pulled out with pliers' syndrome so > the r/w heads are munged as is some of the sensory gubbins. > And, anyone got a remote control and mouse for the CDTV they don't want > any more? . My CDTV works fine but it's difficult to use without > the remote..... > > cheers! > > -- > Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP > C CAT Limited > Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) > (home) > (The Online Computer Museum, as > featured in Computer Weekly!) > 0/0 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 08:55:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409135533.94082.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- William Donzelli wrote: > In response to a few questions - > > 1) I am considering all offers. No one is out of the running. Many of the > bids are very close, so location/ease of moving may make the difference. > Be patient, and I will choose eventually (soon). Since I already have an -8/i, I can't justify another one that would just sit in a corner for who knows how long. > 2) I have quite a few spare for this machine, but they are mostly still > in Chicago. Do the spares go with the machine or would they be a seperate deal? I'm always in the market for spare DEC parts to keep the machines I _do_ have working. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From h.mansfield at ucc.ie Mon Apr 9 09:08:40 2001 From: h.mansfield at ucc.ie (Mansfield, Hilary) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: IBM 7545 Message-ID: I am interested in a copy of the Eproms on this machine , they are labelled IC16 and IC17 on the main controller board , prehaps a copy could be sent as an email attachment . I would appreciate any help . Regards , Hilary Mansfield From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 9 09:34:57 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <20010408210731.VXLT1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbo x> References: <000901c0c06c$6430e1e0$9515a38e@98box> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409093356.02f7d420@pc> At 04:58 PM 4/8/01 -0400, THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >I often hear folks refer to thier computer as a "modem". I suppose they >do this because that is the main function of the machine for them - being >spammed by AOL. >Some call it thier 'hard drive'. Some call it thier 'Windows'. The one that drives me crazy is when people call it "the computer", as in "I'm learning the computer now." - John From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 9 09:46:09 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Fwd from the Greenkeys list ... Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409094525.02fa6c30@pc> >From: "Craig Sawyers" >To: >Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] Refinishing question... >Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:52:44 +0100 > >> I >> demonstrated the M14 Strip Printer with Gumming Desk. They want to >> film the unit later this month. > >Thinking of WWII period stuff, you all might be interested in a film that >will be released in the US in August/September called Enigma. It is a >dramatisation of a novel by Harris of the same name, and has been produced >by Mick Jagger. > >Reason I know about this is that I have been restoring some cipher equipment >at Bletchley Park, and that is where much of the filming was done, and where >all the props are. These are ridiculously convincing! There is a full size >replica of the centre section of a U-boat, complete with rust streaks (you >feel obliged to knock on it to convince yourself it isn't made of metal), >and a 30 foot scale model of a whole U-boat for long shots. There are >several Turing Bombe replicas, and three Typex cipher machines (these look >so convincing I leant on one of them to reach something, and it toppled >over! They usually weigh a hundredweight!). > >Anyway - those in the UK, or visiting, can see the props as well as real >exhibits. I'm looking forward to seeing the film! > >Craig > >---- >Submissions: greenkeys@qth.net From M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk Mon Apr 9 09:50:43 2001 From: M.Buckett at dcs.hull.ac.uk (M.Buckett) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request In-Reply-To: <3AD1BB14.69D0935D@atari-history.com> from "Curt Vendel" at Apr 09, 2001 09:37:24 AM Message-ID: Hi, If your prepared to ship to the UK I would be very interested in getting a slab, monitor, keyboard and bits if there are still some going. How much do expect shipping by boat to the UK will be? and how long will it take? Buckett > > > Hi Adrian, > Sure, I'd be happy to ship one, I'd highly recommend shipping by boat, > no air as it'll cost into the hundreds. Do you want a monitor? (its > actually a necessity since the keyboard/mouse plug into the monitor and the > monitor cable plugs into the slab and also takes its power from the slab.) > > Let me know and I have no problems lugged down two boxes (1 cpu, 1 > monitor) to the post office for you. > > > Curt From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Apr 9 10:34:10 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: Being a kid is a state of mind. I know a few 17 year old adults and a few 40 year old kids. I consider myself a kid because I sit on the floor when I take apart computers, I stand on my head in containers/dumpsters pulling out computers, I occasionally look like a dust bunny/dirt devil after crawling around a warehouse. My kids think I'm a kid or crazy because I talk to the computers when I'm taking them apart. Kids also get excited when they get new toys, and that's me when I've found a new computer. Actually I'm a 49 year old kid. Maybe I'll go back to school when my kids are in college and teach kids. Actually my goal is to be able to work/play on interesting projects. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 9 10:45:52 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 8, 2001 11:20:11 pm" Message-ID: <200104091545.IAA07394@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > "Any sufficeintly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" > > I suffix this with: "If you don't look under the hood". I'm quite fond of the corellary. "Any technology that can be distinguished from magic is insufficiently advanced." Eric From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 9 10:48:52 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: from Chris Kennedy at "Apr 8, 2001 09:32:48 pm" Message-ID: <200104091548.IAA07444@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome > got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially > given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear > damaged. I've assumed that the missing radome was part of the "landing preparations" if you know what I mean. Eric From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 09:40:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. > > Our? Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. And it is decidedly off-topic. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 09:43:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:00 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <20010409072841.A2202@sd160.local> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > The second machine doesn't want to boot, halts with "Fever finstrates than > expected". I really haven't had the time to investigate yet. I would translate this message as "Not enough windows"? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From alex at linuxhacker.org Mon Apr 9 10:55:26 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, M.Buckett wrote: > If your prepared to ship to the UK I would be very interested in getting a > slab, monitor, keyboard and bits if there are still some going. > How much do expect shipping by boat to the UK will be? and how long will it > take? I'd be interested in the answer to that question too. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 09:46:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <003d01c0c0d7$de2f0920$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? Find a cheap Chinese-made replacement keyboard. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 09:52:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409074936.02ebcdf8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Tony Eros wrote: > On reflection, maybe "crummy" doesn't sound quite right. The > archivist was very helpful, but they simply didn't keep the docs. It makes no sense to me that a company like IBM would not keep in their archive a copy of every piece of documentation or marketing literature that they ever published. Of course it makes even less sense that companies like Compaq would remove archived online documentation. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 09:56:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, M.Buckett wrote: > If your prepared to ship to the UK I would be very interested in getting a > slab, monitor, keyboard and bits if there are still some going. > How much do expect shipping by boat to the UK will be? and how long will it > take? If Curt is going to ship overseas, keep in mind the customs issues. You'll have to properly word the contents so as not to make it seem like this is a contemporary machine worth thousands of dollars (although it really should be :) What generally works is calling it "Non-working electronic equipment for educational purposes only -- no commercial value"...something to that effect. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ip500 at home.com Mon Apr 9 11:18:39 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD1E0DF.27AD2192@home.com> Gee... that all sounds familiar! Well said, from a fellow "kid", my odometer just rolled over to the big 50. Craig "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > Being a kid is a state of mind. I know a few 17 year old adults and a few > 40 year old kids. > I consider myself a kid because I sit on the floor when I take apart > computers, I stand on my head in containers/dumpsters pulling out computers, > I occasionally look like a dust bunny/dirt devil after crawling around a > warehouse. My kids think I'm a kid or crazy because I talk to the computers > when I'm taking them apart. > > Kids also get excited when they get new toys, and that's me when I've found > a new computer. > > Actually I'm a 49 year old kid. > > Maybe I'll go back to school when my kids are in college and teach kids. > Actually my goal is to be able to work/play on interesting projects. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu From elvey at hal.com Mon Apr 9 11:19:24 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Paul Allen Buys Old MITS Building In-Reply-To: <3ACD1B09.FDB9CB02@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200104091619.f39GJPL09145@civic.hal.com> Hi Chad You have to remember, it is those that write the history that make the history. Dwight Chad Fernandez wrote: > I can just imagine the Pro-M$ History aka... propoganda!!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > John Lewczyk wrote: > > > > Its gonna become a computer museum! From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Apr 9 11:29:17 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity Message-ID: It's nostalgia time Do you remember IBM JCL, Job Control Language? Do you remember DEC DOS/BATCH? Have you punched cards using a drum card? Have you used an O26 keypunch? Have you used an O29 keypunch? Have you played trek on at VT52? Have you entered data on a VT05? Have you used an RX01? Have you used a TU58? The oldy and goldy Fortran II, remember go to's and format statements. Don't forget all capitals. IMPLICIT INTEGER (I-N) READ(5,995) I IF( I ) 100,200,300 100 PRINT(6,999) I 999 FORMAT('0I IS NEGATIVE, ',I4) GO TO 500 200 PRINT(6,998) I 998 FORMAT('0I IS ZERO, ',I4) GO TO 500 300 PRINT(6,997) I 997 FORMAT('0I IS POSITIVE, ',I4) 500 STOP END I think a computer language and programming flame war is needed to clear the air and stoke the emotions :) Never mind! Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Apr 9 11:55:49 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Digitizing Archives Not So Easy Message-ID: Article about the difficulty of preserving information in the digital age http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,42842,00.html They like 9 track tapes probably because they understand them. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 9 11:55:34 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Old languages and VAX Question ( was RE: Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010409094854.0198fc38@208.226.86.10> At 11:29 AM 4/9/2001 -0500, you wrote: >The oldy and goldy Fortran II, remember go to's and format statements. >Don't forget all capitals. > IMPLICIT INTEGER (I-N) > READ(5,995) I > IF( I ) 100,200,300 >100 PRINT(6,999) I >999 FORMAT('0I IS NEGATIVE, ',I4) > GO TO 500 >200 PRINT(6,998) I >998 FORMAT('0I IS ZERO, ',I4) > GO TO 500 >300 PRINT(6,997) I >997 FORMAT('0I IS POSITIVE, ',I4) >500 STOP > END >I think a computer language and programming flame war is needed to clear the >air and stoke the emotions :) >Never mind! You forgot the format statement for 995 so it won't compile :-) One of the coolest things about the OpenVMS hobbyist program is the number of old languages that you can play with and learn when you have a VAX sitting around. Mine have COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC, C, C++, PASCAL, and ADA all loaded. I'm trying to get copies of the MODULA-2 and MODULA-3 systems, and while I have the distro kits for APL and PL/I the hobbiest program doesn't include PAKS for them. (If someone has said PAKs I'd be interested in them). I would like to put together a CD that has all of the languages on it and I'm wondering sort of how to go about that. If I 'INIT' a disk and stage the CD I want to create, then I can used backup to create a /FOREIGN/PHYSICAL copy of it in a file I think, then if I burn that on to a CD will it still mount? Curious minds want to know. --Chuck From elvey at hal.com Mon Apr 9 11:54:48 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: VT340 focus adjustment? In-Reply-To: <06e701c0bf64$7851de80$0d261bce@L166> Message-ID: <200104091654.f39GsmW09163@civic.hal.com> Hi The trade name was Gliptol, as I recall. I wouldn't recommend locking it down. There is most likely some part that is aging. It will continue to do so over time, needing the occasional readjustment. Dwight "Daniel T. Burrows" wrote: > Loktite or drip some candle wax on it. > Dan > > >Thanks Allison! I got the cover off and found the adjustment side of the > >terminal (left side looking at it from the front) and the focus is a screw > >that goes into what looks like an HV transformer. I've adjusted it to be > >razor sharp, now what do I use to "lock it down" ? What is that stuff that > >looks like nail polish called? > > > >--Chuck > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 13:26:14 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Way OT Bullets and house cleaning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409132614.4017faae@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:28 AM 4/8/01 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Sat, 7 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > >> Hmm, I don't shoot things... I blow them up.. Or make use of a nice large >> sledgehammer, combined with dropping/kicking/running over the object marked >> for destruction... blowtorches are fun too! >> >> (Note: this is directed at non-living critters, mainly dead hard drives, PC >> cases, and, in one memorable occasion of particular violence, an iMac >> keyboard.. heh..) > >Will: Ritalin. Look into it. It sounds like he already. BTW you do know that Ritalin has the oppisite effect on adults? Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Apr 9 12:06:15 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo's message of "Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:28:42 +0300" References: <8d.4df24cf.280095be@aol.com> <3.0.1.16.20010408131439.3b9fbc74@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20010409072841.A2202@sd160.local> Message-ID: <200104091706.f39H6FX16157@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > The second machine doesn't want to boot, halts with "Fever finstrates than > expected". I really haven't had the time to investigate yet. A "finstrate" is a board (any board, CPU, IOP or memory) in the processor card cage. What's in there? -Frank McConnell From jss at ou.edu Mon Apr 9 12:50:40 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <986838640.3ad1f67074de3@email.ou.edu> Quoting "McFadden, Mike" : > It's nostalgia time > Do you remember IBM JCL, Job Control Language? > Do you remember DEC DOS/BATCH? > Have you punched cards using a drum card? > Have you used an O26 keypunch? > Have you used an O29 keypunch? > Have you played trek on at VT52? > Have you entered data on a VT05? > Have you used an RX01? > Have you used a TU58? Not me. Not yet, that is... > I think a computer language and programming flame war is needed to > clear the air and stoke the emotions :) Ok, I'm game! Gotos are not inherently harmful. They are a tool, and as such, can be used for both good and evil. In fact, I've written code using gotos that is downright elegant. And if that didn't do it, how about this: I haven't decided yet whether total OO is a Good Thing or not. Someone set me straight! -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From west at tseinc.com Mon Apr 9 12:54:19 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! Message-ID: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an old school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other purposes, and found what they describe as a large amount of old microcomputers in storage there. They don't want them, and want to take offers for them. It sounds like they will take a "token donation" for a system or systems or maybe the whole lot. All I know at this point is that most of the systems are Commodore Pet, Commodore superPet, and TRS-80. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a bunch of apples there too, and lord knows what else. Location is Arizona. So far, they have asked that I be a single point of contact so they don't get innundated with calls. If anyone is interested, Please email me asap or they will wind up on the junk heap. Most importantly, are any interested list members in AZ (brisbane I think was the city) and could thus do a look-see, and maybe organize shipping, etc? Let me know! Jay West -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/b96b3973/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 9 13:02:13 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Old languages and VAX Question ( was RE: Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010409094854.0198fc38@208.226.86.10> References: Message-ID: >I would like to put together a CD that has all of the languages on it and >I'm wondering sort of how to go about that. If I 'INIT' a disk and stage >the CD I want to create, then I can used backup to create a >/FOREIGN/PHYSICAL copy of it in a file I think, then if I burn that on to a >CD will it still mount? Curious minds want to know. You need to grab the LD driver off the Freeware CD[1]. With it you can create a logical disk, and put whatever you want on the Logical disk. You can then either burn it to CD-R with CDRECORD, or you can FTP the disk image over to another machine with a CD-R drive attached and put it on CD-R. Alternativelly, put a 500MB SCSI drive on your VAX, put the files on it. Then move the disk over to a UNIX box and dd it to an image file and burn to CD-R. Actually you should be able to make the image this way on your VMS box, if you've enough HD space, as you should be able to mount the disk foreign and then copy it to a image file. On a related note, if you've got two VMS systems, and you want to upgrade one of them, but don't have a CD-ROM for it (say it's a MicroVAX III), you can backup the install CD-ROM, copy it via DECnet to the target system, and restore the CD-ROM to a second Hard Drive. Boot off the Hard Drive, and install on the target Hard Drive. Zane [1] http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/freeware/index.html -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 13:44:34 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409080615.00a60bf0@mail.wincom.net> References: <00b401c0c089$02807740$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3AD0D2F3.E65E3CB5@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409134434.3fafea66@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:10 AM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >At 09:37 AM 09/04/2001 +0930, you wrote: > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Curt Vendel" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:36 AM >>Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. >> > > A friend suggests that the neatness of the opening at the front of >the US aircraft suggests that sensitive equipment in the nose may have been >jettisoned after the collision. Your friend doesn't know S&*T about aircraft! Does he really think it takes 21 guys to operate something that could be held in the nose? All of the senitive equipment is housed inside the aircraft and it's packed FULL of equipment. The nose is hollow and contains a radar antenna. The antenna and the dome are very fragile. That's why they broke off so cleanly. FWIW I spent 3 years flying and working on a very similar aircraft for the USAF. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 14:03:44 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: <00b401c0c089$02807740$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409140344.3fafab2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:52 PM 4/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >Do you remember when we would call that "an Army weather plane doing >meteorological research"? > >When did we start calling them spy planes? AFTER Gary Powers was shot down in his "unarmed weather recon" plane and he and the plane and it's equipment were put on public display in the USSR. Before that most people in the US were naive enough to believe that we didn't do such things. ROFL! > > >What WOULD we do if the roles were reversed? Shoot it down of course. But this isn't exactly the same thing. This flight was over water and not over land. We (the US), the Russians, the Cubans and a number of other countries have been doing this for YEARS and it's been common for the "enemy's" aircraft to escort each others aircraft. I've been in aircraft in the North Atlantic that were escorted by Russian fighters and our fighters also regularly escorted their aircraft. In the vast majority of the cases there was no trouble. I'm sorry but I don't see any secret plots in the recent US/Chinese incident. It's not uncommon for aircraft in close formation to collide and I think it was an accident. Now both governments are acting like tough guys and unwilling to admit any fault or apologize. It's all rather childish IMO. Does anyone have a count on the number of Cuban, Russian, North Korean and other communist aircraft that have landed in US controlled bases that we've kept and reverse engineered? I can name at least four that I personally know of. Joe From curt at atari-history.com Mon Apr 9 13:17:59 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request References: Message-ID: <3AD1FCD7.971BCA88@atari-history.com> Hi, Shipping to the UK seems fairly quick, they say 6-8 weeks, however my Atari History co-founder and friend lives in Tipperary, Ireland and we constantly ship equipment to one another and usually it gets there within 3-4 weeks. The monitors (actually the slabs too) are pretty heavy, I will see what this will all cost, plus $6 for box and $3 for bubble wrapping of everything. Curt "M.Buckett" wrote: > Hi, > If your prepared to ship to the UK I would be very interested in getting a > slab, monitor, keyboard and bits if there are still some going. > How much do expect shipping by boat to the UK will be? and how long will it > take? > > Buckett > > > > > > > Hi Adrian, > > Sure, I'd be happy to ship one, I'd highly recommend shipping by boat, > > no air as it'll cost into the hundreds. Do you want a monitor? (its > > actually a necessity since the keyboard/mouse plug into the monitor and the > > monitor cable plugs into the slab and also takes its power from the slab.) > > > > Let me know and I have no problems lugged down two boxes (1 cpu, 1 > > monitor) to the post office for you. > > > > > > Curt From curt at atari-history.com Mon Apr 9 13:18:37 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request References: Message-ID: <3AD1FCFD.3DE3EFA2@atari-history.com> Sellam, No probs... I have this down to a science, I ship to/from UK/Europe all the time :-) Curt Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, M.Buckett wrote: > > > If your prepared to ship to the UK I would be very interested in getting a > > slab, monitor, keyboard and bits if there are still some going. > > How much do expect shipping by boat to the UK will be? and how long will it > > take? > > If Curt is going to ship overseas, keep in mind the customs issues. > You'll have to properly word the contents so as not to make it seem like > this is a contemporary machine worth thousands of dollars (although it > really should be :) > > What generally works is calling it "Non-working electronic equipment for > educational purposes only -- no commercial value"...something to that > effect. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 12:16:29 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986838640.3ad1f67074de3@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Ok, I'm game! Gotos are not inherently harmful. They are a tool, and > as such, can be used for both good and evil. In fact, I've written code > using gotos that is downright elegant. > > And if that didn't do it, how about this: I haven't decided yet > whether total OO is a Good Thing or not. Someone set me straight! What's uglier: a single "goto", or a dozen nested "if" statements, to trap error conditions? I managed to eliminate useage of gotos long ago in my code, and come up with a fairly elegant error handling system using nested if's. But I'm still waiting for a good, solid, error handling system (try/catch is not it). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From curt at atari-history.com Mon Apr 9 13:34:43 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3AD200C3.F744AB16@atari-history.com> Jay, Let me know about any Atari equipment please. Curt Jay West wrote: > I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an > old school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other > purposes, and found what they describe as a large amount of old > microcomputers in storage there. They don't want them, and want to > take offers for them. It sounds like they will take a "token donation" > for a system or systems or maybe the whole lot. All I know at this > point is that most of the systems are Commodore Pet, Commodore > superPet, and TRS-80. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a bunch of > apples there too, and lord knows what else. Location is Arizona. So > far, they have asked that I be a single point of contact so they don't > get innundated with calls. If anyone is interested, Please email me > asap or they will wind up on the junk heap. Most importantly, are any > interested list members in AZ (brisbane I think was the city) and > could thus do a look-see, and maybe organize shipping, etc? Let me > know! Jay West -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/47493bed/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 9 13:22:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Apr 8, 1 05:20:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1004 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/9915debe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 9 13:33:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986838640.3ad1f67074de3@email.ou.edu> from "Jeffrey S. Sharp" at Apr 9, 1 12:50:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1176 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/7ac9eedf/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 12:27:21 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Jay West wrote: > I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an > old school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other > purposes, and found what they describe as a large amount of old > microcomputers in storage there. They don't want them, and want to > take offers for them. It sounds like they will take a "token donation" > for a system or systems or maybe the whole lot. > > All I know at this point is that most of the systems are Commodore > Pet, Commodore superPet, and TRS-80. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a > bunch of apples there too, and lord knows what else. Location is > Arizona. > > Most importantly, are any interested list members in AZ (brisbane I > think was the city) and could thus do a look-see, and maybe organize > shipping, etc? It's actually in Bisbee, which is about 15 miles north of Mexico and a hundred fifty or so west of New Mexico. In other words, it's in the Middle of Nowhere :) These guys have been trying to find takers for a while now, and dare I say they are a bit clueless. I gave up trying to work with them after the third time they e-mailed me the list of items in some proprietary word processor format that I couldn't decode. I guess they've never heard of plain text (even though I asked them twice to send it as such :) I've tried calling a couple times but never connected over the phone, so I gave up. The big problem is going to be shipping. I spent some time down there a few years back working at a customer site, and getting stuff shipped in was a hassle. UPS and Fedex only delivered a couple times a week back then. Perhaps service has improved some but I doubt it. The nearest big town is Douglas, about 20-25 miles to the east on the Mexican border. The only thing of real interest for me was a SuperPET. They do have some nice stuff though, including some PETs and S-100 machines, and it would be a damn shame if they ended up throwing everything out. Probably the easiest thing is for someone to rent a truck and drive out there and load it all up. A lot of the expense could be recouped by selling the stuff here on the list or on eBay. But I really don't think there is enough there to justify the expense monetarily. Here's the list again in case you missed it the first time: --- Here is a fairly complete list of the old computer stuff that we have which is available to the highest bid. We are a non-profit 501 (c)(3) educational institution, we have just obtained a old elementary school which was being used by the school district to store old things from every school, so there is a large variety of things. We don^Òt know their condition exactly, or whether they work. Sold in ^Óas is^Ô condition and you pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it out to whom ever would love it. **If you are in the USA your contribution would be tax-deductible! If you have questions or comments call us at: (520) 432-4200 or e-mail fnweird@earthlink.net . Thankx! Carmen & Bob Bryant APPLE : Apple IIc - (no Monitors; a white box with key board) [seven units] Apple 51/4 external Floppy drives Model ^ÓDisk II^Ô [eight units] Apple (small) keybords [five] Apple Unidisk [one] Apple Numeric Key Pad IIe [one] CompuAdd Computer [one] Apple Monitor III [five] Apple II Plus (no monitor) [one] Apple Monitors [four] Apple Graphics tablets large 16" x 16" Model A2M0029 [three] COMMODORE Comm. PET Model 4016 [one] Comm. Single Floppy (5 1/4) Drive Model 1541 [two] Comm. 4023 Printers [eleven] Comm. 4022 Printer [two] Comm. (5 1/4) floppy Extern. Drive Model 2031LP [five] Comm. Super PET SP9000 (with monitor attached) [seven] Comm PET Model 4032 (with monitor) [five] Comm. CBM Model 8032 [two] Comm. CBM Dual Floppy Model 8050 [two] Comm. Dual Drive Floppy [one] Comm. Single Drive Floppy (5 1/4) Model 2031 [one] Comm. 64 Keyboard [four] Comm. Cassette Plug-in ^ÓDatasette^Ô [three] Comm. Cassette ^ÓC2N^Ô [one] Comm. Tractor Printer Model 4022 [one[ Other : Panasonic Printers KX-P1080i And KX - P1091 [one of each] IBM Transcriber Model 172 [four] Ventel Model 1200-1 [three] Sanyo Memo Scriber (with cassette built in) [four] Monitors: IBM Mon. Model 8513001 [one] Leading Edge Mon. Model DR-1240 [three] also Leading Edge Keyboard [one] CTX Color Monitor 14" Model CVP5468A [one] Amdek Video-300 Mon. [one] Citizen Mon. [one] Zenith Data Systems Mon. Model ZVM 121 [one] other keyboards: Zenith Data Systems [four] Wyse Key. [one] unknown brands [three] RADIO SHACK TRS-80 Model III 48 K RAM (Monitor built in, with cassettee hook up in back) [seven] TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer 64 K (monitor built in and cassette plug in) [seven] ** some of these have built in smoky glass filter attached to front TRS-80 64K Keyboard [ten] ^Ó ^Ô ^Ó Mini Disk Drive [one] TRS-80 DMP 200 Printer [one] ^Ó ^Ô Video Display (1979) [one] ^Ó ^Ô DWP-210 Daisy Wheel Printer [one] Tandy 1000sx (Dual floppy, no mon.) [six] ^Ó ^Ô Not working/parts gone [two] Tandy 64 K Color Monitor [one] Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP 430 [one] Tandy Monitor VM-4 [one] Tandy 190 Keyboard [one] Other: Heyer Model 93 Thermal Processor [one] ^ÓEspirit^Ô Computer by Hazeltine (PET look-alike) [one] Viasyn Dual 5 1/4 Disk Drive [one] BMC - 800 Model 20 (with monitor on stand) [two] Epson computer Model Equality I+ (has single floppy ) with keyboard [one] Viasyn Computer from Hayward CA. CompuPro System 8/16 Serial#068899 [one] Racal-Milgo / OMXIMODE 96 [one] IBM Type 4869 (made in Japan) 5 1/4 Floppy Drive [one] Data Frame 20/Super Mac Technology (120v,60 Hz) box with switch, male three prong plug; and two ports [one] Power supply [one] Texas Instruments Business System 300 Monitor [one] 3M Thermo Fax ^ÓThe Secretary^Ô Copier/Transper. Maker [two] American Seating Masterboard for audio controls on large table w/two tapes/reels [one] NCR Model 399 Console [one] Zenthen & Aagaard (Copenhagen Denmark) Abdick 588 Stencil Maker IBM Model 4226-320 Printer [one] IBM 4226 Printer Ribbons [one] ALSO- Old DITTO and Mimeograph Machines and parts including paste ink pads [ten] Type writers - Royal [newer X one; very old X five] IBM Personal Wheelwriter2 [two] IBM Quietwriter III Printer 5202 [one] BMC electric [two] IBM Selectric III [two] Maxwell Pro/Indust. Videocassette U-Matic Still Frame Reproduction [twelve] Texas Instruments Computer (large & Heavy ) Serial # 0550001424 [one] Wollensak triple tape cassette duplicator Model 2772 [one] Sony U-matic Model VO-2600 [one] Tandy 1000 Personal Computer Keyboard [seven] BOOKS IBM Personal Computer Hardware Reference Library 3.0 BASIC (Hard bound ringed binder in fiberboard case, wrapped, like new [twelve] IBM Personal Computer Guide To Operations with floppy [twelve] Tandy 1000sx Manual excellent condition [one] Apple IIc ^ÓA Touch of Applesoft Basic^Ô [five] Apple ^ÓGetting Started With Your Apple II GS [fifteen] Apple Color RGB Monitor Owners Manual (IIgs) [eight] Apple 3.5 Drive Owner Guide [three] Apple II GS Owner Reference [eight] Appel Image Writer II Owner Manual [one] Apple II GS System Drive Users Guide [one] Apple II GS Owner Manual(in wrapper) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 9 13:40:45 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409134030.02415100@pc> At 12:54 PM 4/9/01 -0500, Jay West wrote: >I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an old school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other purposes, and found what they describe as a large amount of old microcomputers in storage there. They don't want them, and want to take offers for them. It sounds like they will take a "token donation" for a system or systems or maybe the whole lot. Sounds like this: >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:10:09 -0600 >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >From: John Foust >Subject: Rescue / Sale in AZ: PET, Tandy, Apple, PC > > >This is somewhere in the Phoenix/Tucson/Flagstaff area. :-) > >- John > >----------------- > >Here is a fairly complete list of the old computer stuff that we have which is available to the highest bid. > >We are a non-profit 501 (c)(3) educational institution, we have >just obtained a old elementary school which was being used by >the school district to store old things from every school, so >there is a large variety of things. We don’t know their condition >exactly, or whether they work. Sold in “as is” condition and you >pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - >would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it >out to whom ever would love it. > >**If you are in the USA your contribution would be tax-deductible! > >If you have questions or comments call us at: (520) 432-4200 >or e-mail fnweird@earthlink.net . > >Thankx! Carmen & Bob Bryant > >APPLE : >Apple IIc - (no Monitors; a white box with key board) [seven units] >Apple 51/4 external Floppy drives Model “Disk II” [eight units] >Apple (small) keybords [five] >Apple Unidisk [one] >Apple Numeric Key Pad IIe [one] >CompuAdd Computer [one] >Apple Monitor III [five] >Apple II Plus (no monitor) [one] >Apple Monitors [four] >Apple Graphics tablets large 16" x 16" Model A2M0029 [three] > >COMMODORE >Comm. PET Model 4016 [one] >Comm. Single Floppy (5 1/4) Drive Model 1541 [two] >Comm. 4023 Printers [eleven] >Comm. 4022 Printer [two] >Comm. (5 1/4) floppy Extern. Drive Model 2031LP [five] >Comm. Super PET SP9000 (with monitor attached) [seven] >Comm PET Model 4032 (with monitor) [five] >Comm. CBM Model 8032 [two] >Comm. CBM Dual Floppy Model 8050 [two] >Comm. Dual Drive Floppy [one] >Comm. Single Drive Floppy (5 1/4) Model 2031 [one] >Comm. 64 Keyboard [four] >Comm. Cassette Plug-in “Datasette” [three] >Comm. Cassette “C2N” [one] >Comm. Tractor Printer Model 4022 [one[ > >Other : >Panasonic Printers KX-P1080i And KX - P1091 [one of each] >IBM Transcriber Model 172 [four] >Ventel Model 1200-1 [three] >Sanyo Memo Scriber (with cassette built in) [four] > >Monitors: >IBM Mon. Model 8513001 [one] >Leading Edge Mon. Model DR-1240 [three] >also Leading Edge Keyboard [one] >CTX Color Monitor 14" Model CVP5468A [one] >Amdek Video-300 Mon. [one] >Citizen Mon. [one] >Zenith Data Systems Mon. Model ZVM 121 [one] > >other keyboards: >Zenith Data Systems [four] >Wyse Key. [one] >unknown brands [three] > >RADIO SHACK >TRS-80 Model III 48 K RAM (Monitor built in, with cassettee hook up in back) [seven] >TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer 64 K (monitor built in and cassette plug in) [seven] > ** some of these have built in smoky glass filter attached to front >TRS-80 64K Keyboard [ten] > “ ” “ Mini Disk Drive [one] > TRS-80 DMP 200 Printer [one] > “ ” Video Display (1979) [one] > “ ” DWP-210 Daisy Wheel Printer [one] > >Tandy 1000sx (Dual floppy, no mon.) [six] > “ ” Not working/parts gone [two] >Tandy 64 K Color Monitor [one] >Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP 430 [one] >Tandy Monitor VM-4 [one] >Tandy 190 Keyboard [one] > >Other: >Heyer Model 93 Thermal Processor [one] >“Espirit” Computer by Hazeltine (PET look-alike) [one] >Viasyn Dual 5 1/4 Disk Drive [one] >BMC - 800 Model 20 (with monitor on stand) [two] >Epson computer Model Equality I+ (has single floppy ) with keyboard [one] > >Viasyn Computer from Hayward CA. CompuPro System 8/16 Serial#068899 [one] >Racal-Milgo / OMXIMODE 96 [one] >IBM Type 4869 (made in Japan) 5 1/4 Floppy Drive [one] >Data Frame 20/Super Mac Technology (120v,60 Hz) box > with switch, male three prong plug; and two ports [one] >Power supply [one] >Texas Instruments Business System 300 Monitor [one] >3M Thermo Fax “The Secretary” Copier/Transper. Maker [two] >American Seating Masterboard for audio controls on large table w/two tapes/reels [one] >NCR Model 399 Console [one] >Zenthen & Aagaard (Copenhagen Denmark) Abdick 588 Stencil Maker >IBM Model 4226-320 Printer [one] >IBM 4226 Printer Ribbons [one] > >ALSO- >Old DITTO and Mimeograph Machines and parts including paste ink pads [ten] >Type writers - Royal [newer X one; very old X five] >IBM Personal Wheelwriter2 [two] >IBM Quietwriter III Printer 5202 [one] >BMC electric [two] >IBM Selectric III [two] >Maxwell Pro/Indust. Videocassette U-Matic Still Frame Reproduction [twelve] >Texas Instruments Computer (large & Heavy ) Serial # 0550001424 [one] >Wollensak triple tape cassette duplicator Model 2772 [one] >Sony U-matic Model VO-2600 [one] >Tandy 1000 Personal Computer Keyboard [seven] > >BOOKS >IBM Personal Computer Hardware Reference Library 3.0 BASIC > (Hard bound ringed binder in fiberboard case, wrapped, like new [twelve] >IBM Personal Computer Guide To Operations with floppy [twelve] >Tandy 1000sx Manual excellent condition [one] >Apple IIc “A Touch of Applesoft Basic” [five] >Apple “Getting Started With Your Apple II GS [fifteen] >Apple Color RGB Monitor Owners Manual (IIgs) [eight] >Apple 3.5 Drive Owner Guide [three] >Apple II GS Owner Reference [eight] >Appel Image Writer II Owner Manual [one] >Apple II GS System Drive Users Guide [one] >Apple II GS Owner Manual(in wrapper) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 15:08:49 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010408131748.3b9fd01c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409150849.3e2feed4@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:36 PM 4/8/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >> > > >It's a databook (no matter how old or what company, I am sure to come >across at least one of the devices one day. For example I picked up an >RCA linear databook the other day. It's got the data sheet for the anode >driver chip used in the HP67 in it...) Cool find! I found an old RCA data book that had what looked like the anode driver in it but I hadn't had a chance to verify that is was indeed the part that HP used. If it is, then that means there is some hope of finding replacement parts. > >It relates to a machine, or series of machines, that I am seriously >interested in. I'll buy all such books, no matter how elementary the >information they contain. Ditto. I usually pick them up even if it's not a machine that I'm immediately interested in. I pass them on to other collectors or just save them. > >It's part of a series of books that I am trying to obtain. Like the >(classic) MIT Radiation Lab series [1] >[1] For those who've not seen these, they are 28 (I think) volumes >describing electronics, particularly for radar and radio navigation, as >it was done in the 1940s and 1950s. Lots of _great stuff_.... These are a VERY interesting series. Basicly they cover subjects that they discovered/developed during WW II while developing RADAR, the atomic bomb and other fancy toys. I've only been able to find one of them so far. I think it's on Pulse Generating circuits. >Incidentally, unless I misuderstood the copyright notice in these books, >it appears they are now public domain (it claims they will become public >domain 10 years after the date of publication, which was about 50 years >ago). I am suprised nobody has reprinted them, or scanned/OCRed them or >something. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 14:35:42 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409143542.4017ae3e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:33 PM 4/8/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: >> - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome >> got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially >> given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear >> damaged. > >Was the missing radome collision damage? >Or would jettisoning the radome be standard procedure? Jettision the radome? Surely you jest??? How do you propose to jettision something that's on the FRONT of the aircraft when there are four LARGE whirling propellors behind it? Obviously you never seen what happens to a propellor when it strikes a solid object. It's one thing to stike a soft object like a person when idling on the ground but the results are VERY different when it hits metal debris. Especially at flight speed and engine cruise RPM. Any damage to the blades throws the whole engine/gearbox/propellor assembly badly out of balance. Then the blades break off and fly around like huge knives. If one hits the fuselage it WILL go completely through it and it can cut it completely in two. Even if the fuselage survives, the blade will usually cut all the flight controls and the aircraft go completely out of control. And let's not even talk about what it can do to the other engines, propellors and fuel tanks! This isn't speculation. This is exactly what happened to a similar aircraft (EC-121) flying out of Otis AFB. We lost the entire crew of 23 people. All in all, the crew of the US plane is very lucky to be alive. The pilots had to have been very good just to get the plane on the ground in one piece. Flying back to their carrier or a US base would have been absolutely out of the question. Joe > > > From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Apr 9 14:02:28 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 2000 TSB status update In-Reply-To: <006501c0bf91$db97dda0$9e8953d1@fozzie> References: <006501c0bf91$db97dda0$9e8953d1@fozzie> Message-ID: Awsome! Here's hoping you can get 'er all up and running! I'm quite envious...The first computer that I ever used was an hp2000 system (owned by the local high school district...I was 10 years old...our local public library had a public access terminal that could be used to dial into the hp). A while back I was a computer operator here at the college, and we also had an HP2000 system (that I got to backup etc).....loved keying in the paper tape loader (in octal) from the panel and reading the paper (plastic) tape to get the system bootstrapped. Someday, if I ever have the chance and the room, I'd love to play with some old hp equipment....sigh........ If you get your system online, and decide to make it accessable via the internet, a few old hp2000 friends of mine and I would love to be able to telnet in and try running some old programs that I saved from the good old days! Good Luck and Have Fun!!!!! -Bob >At long last, the 7900A drive is working reliably - and passes all >diagnostics. The dual 2100 cpus are fully tested, as is the processor >interconnect kit. > >The last major peripheral I have to get up and running is my 7970E tape >drive - that's being worked on right now. > >Soon as that's done - I can start loading the HP2000 Access TSB operating >system. After that system is up, I'll then build an HP2000E system using a >21MX cpu instead; all parts are on-hand for that. > >Items I'm still looking for desparately: >The HP2000 IOP firmware for the 21MX cpu's (I have the firmware for 2100's, >but need it for the 21MX's). >Need the diags for the 7970E on paper tape, the newer version that uses the >diagnostic configurator (have 7970E diags, but they're the old >non-configurator style). >System operators guide for 2000E (Al? Eric??, Bob Curtis wants his >manual!!). bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 15:00:04 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010408111212.3c071a72@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409150004.3e2f6ecc@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:22 PM 4/8/01 +0100, Tony wrote: >> Most of the HP 98xx series machines have cartridge ports in the front. >> Does it have a monitor? Then it's probably a 9835A or a 9845 (the 9835B has >> a single line LED display). The 9835 is slightly larger than a Commie 64. >> The 9845 is much larger. The 9020 doesn't have any cartridge ports. If it >> has cartridge ports in the rear then it could be a HP 85 (small built in >> CRT) or a HP 86 or 87 (external monitor). > >A few minor corrections, and machines you didn't mention : > >The HP9815 doesn't have cartridge ports on the front (it has 2 expansion >slots on the back which (electrically) could take expansion ROMs or I/O >devices - I have no idea what HP designed to go there. > >The 9825 has the same 4 ports on the front as the 9835, etc. > >The 9810 has 3 cartridge ports inside IIRC. I would have guessed the 9820 >did as well, but I've never seen that machine. > >The HP87 has an internal monitor (or at least mine does). It's a strange >'widescreen' CRT -- about the width you'd expect for a small mono monitor >(it will display 80 columns of text), but about half the height. %deity >knows where I'd get a replacement CRT if it ever fails. The HP86 does use >an external (composite mono) monitor, though. > > You are right but I was trying to keep it brief that's why I said "most" of the 98xx machines. My statement about the HP 87 using an external CRT was blatantly wrong. OK here's some more: The 9820 and 9821 have 3 ROM sockets on the top left and directly behind the keyboard. The 9810 and 9830 have ROM sockets inside. The 9831s and some of the 9825s have a pull out drawer in the RH side. The drawer holds the OS ROMs. There are four sockets for expansion ROMs along the front edge. The HP 85, 86, 87 and 9915 have four slots in the back that can hold either interfaces or ROM drawers. Each ROM drawer can hold up to six ROMs. The 9915 also has internal ROM sockets. The 9845 has pull out ROM drawers in both sides. Each drawer can hold up to 6 plug in ROMs. >The HP9815 doesn't have cartridge ports on the front (it has 2 expansion >slots on the back which (electrically) could take expansion ROMs or I/O >devices - I have no idea what HP designed to go there. The two expansion slots were optional on the early 9815 "A" models but were standard on the later "S" model. There are several interfaces that can go in those slots. Here's the list of the ones that I know of: HP 98130A is used for the 9872 plotter. HP 98131A is used for the 9871 impact character printer. HP 98132A is used for the 9862 plotter 98133A is used for 9 digit BCD input and 8 bit parallel output. 98134A is used for bi-directional 8 bit parallel I/O and can be used to connect the 9815 to other systems. 98135A is used to connect up to 14 HP-IB devices and has no interrupt capability. 98136A is used for RS-232 or current loop serial communications. AFIK there were no plug in ROMs available for the 9815. Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 15:43:32 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409154332.253f4a2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:40 AM 4/9/01 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. >> >> Our? > >Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the >very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. OT as hell but still it would be interesting to hear what some of the non-US members think of it. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 9 15:40:26 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Fwd from the Greenkeys list ... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409094525.02fa6c30@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409154026.2637bb7a@mailhost.intellistar.net> I haven't seen Enigma yet but I highly recommend the movie "U 571". It's mainly an action/adventure flick but it does go into the attempts by the Allies to capture German U-boats intact so that the Allies can capture the code books and Enigma machines used on board. Joe At 09:46 AM 4/9/01 -0500, you wrote: > >>From: "Craig Sawyers" >>To: >>Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] Refinishing question... >>Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:52:44 +0100 >> >>> I >>> demonstrated the M14 Strip Printer with Gumming Desk. They want to >>> film the unit later this month. >> >>Thinking of WWII period stuff, you all might be interested in a film that >>will be released in the US in August/September called Enigma. It is a >>dramatisation of a novel by Harris of the same name, and has been produced >>by Mick Jagger. >> >>Reason I know about this is that I have been restoring some cipher equipment >>at Bletchley Park, and that is where much of the filming was done, and where >>all the props are. These are ridiculously convincing! There is a full size >>replica of the centre section of a U-boat, complete with rust streaks (you >>feel obliged to knock on it to convince yourself it isn't made of metal), >>and a 30 foot scale model of a whole U-boat for long shots. There are >>several Turing Bombe replicas, and three Typex cipher machines (these look >>so convincing I leant on one of them to reach something, and it toppled >>over! They usually weigh a hundredweight!). >> >>Anyway - those in the UK, or visiting, can see the props as well as real >>exhibits. I'm looking forward to seeing the film! >> >>Craig >> >>---- >>Submissions: greenkeys@qth.net > > From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 9 14:41:15 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: <000901c0c06c$6430e1e0$9515a38e@98box> <4.3.2.7.0.20010409093356.02f7d420@pc> Message-ID: <004f01c0c12d$0bda0320$9c15a38e@98box> Not to mention when everyone callin them IBMs, regardless of what they are. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Foust To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Re: just outta curiosity > The one that drives me crazy is when people call it > "the computer", as in "I'm learning the computer now." > > - John > From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 14:55:33 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: Message-ID: <3AD213B5.720A46B5@internet1.net> Intrusion?? Offending?? Why, because Americans care about what is taking place between the USA and China? I wouldn't be offended if an Israeli talked about the stuff in there country with the Palestinians. Why is it that because a list is "International" that everyone is expected to pretend that they don't live in a country? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Sellam Ismail wrote: > Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the > very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. > > And it is decidedly off-topic. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 15:01:06 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity References: Message-ID: <3AD21502.7AD5026@internet1.net> Do you mean, that some people actually use a table?? :-) I always sit on the floor too.... after all your gonna drop half the screws on the floor anyways.... your gonna have to get down on the floor to pick them up :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > I consider myself a kid because I sit on the floor when I take apart > computers, From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 9 14:59:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010409150004.3e2f6ecc@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 9, 1 03:00:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/7f294bc7/attachment.ksh From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Apr 5 17:52:05 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville Message-ID: In a message dated Thu, 5 Apr 2001 6:28:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mike Ford writes: << >> Noteworthy SCSI II adapter, NWSCSI01 >> 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D >> Xircom Netwave Adapter, CNW > >I believe www.computersurplusoutlet.com had some 3com dongles >at $7.00 -- but I don't know if they're for that model. 3Com I don't sweat, fairly common, I "may" even have one, and one style of dongle fits a bunch of 3Com cards. I mention it mostly on the chance that some member of the list is the grand dragon of dongle collecting, sitting on a huge hoard of dongles. >> 3c589d needs the 10b2/10bT dongle - or at least mine does :-) -Linc Fessenden From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 9 15:05:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010409150849.3e2feed4@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 9, 1 03:08:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2270 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/42ce4dfe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 9 15:08:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010409150849.3e2feed4@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 9, 1 03:08:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 914 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010409/6115cc35/attachment.ksh From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Apr 9 15:10:27 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) References: <200104091548.IAA07444@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: Guess I'd be a good EC intel guy, I can strip anything machine in minutes with nothing but a screwdriver and a hammer. Heck, I can do damage with a well made dime. Give me ten minutes with a crowbar on one of those E3's and they'd be lucky if they got a seat out of it... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric J. Korpela" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) > > - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome > > got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially > > given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear > > damaged. > > I've assumed that the missing radome was part of the "landing preparations" > if you know what I mean. > > Eric > From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 15:06:52 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409201155.JICU29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Conspiracy theories abound! I love it. I thought something like that might be. It would explain why the pilot is missing though he did eject. Chinese pilots in general may be second string, but I doubt they are generally so incompetant as to go crashing into other airplanes whilest escorting them. Maybe they will produce him, maybe not. I've heard Chinese pilots called 2nd rate pilots in 3rd rate aircraft, but they do have some Mig 29's I wouldn't want to tangle with. The Chinese claim that our plane veered into thier's is ridiculous. Just like the rules of the road for seagoing vessels, the smaller, more maneuverable vessel maneuvers and the larger, less maneuverable one maintains it's heading and speed. Example, I was sailing in the Bahamas about 15 years ago. We were near the Acoustic testing range called Autec. We were under sail. The captain radioed us to maneuver and we said "NO". He maneuvered his destroyer around us. Not the reverse. We stayed at the AUTEC range for a few days. It was fun dinking with the Navy in our 44' sailboat. The operable variables are: Method of Propulsion - wind power stays on course, motors maneuver. Size: The smaller vessel is generally the more maneuverable and is obliged to do so. There are other rules as well, but these two suit this situation very nicely. Fast, jet powered fighter aircraft can and should avoid colliding with butt slow prop-driven piglike aircraft. Really, that is the first duty of any fighter pilot after taking off and before landing. The rest is trying to SHOOT down the bad guys. Ramming them is not nearly so effective, as our Chinese friends have learned. In , on 04/09/01 at 04:06 PM, Mike Ford said: >>Not to start a flame war, but... >Fighter jet and large heavy turboprop spy plane collide, and I think by >definition the bulk of the blame has to go on the fighterjet. >Want some wild speculation? How about the fighter pilot was INSTRUCTED to >crash into the spy plane to force it to land on chinese soil. >IMHO Greed, worldwide, is currently blinding people to a proper course of >action with China. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Apr 9 15:16:42 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Digitizing Archives Not So Easy References: Message-ID: Of course, this implies there is anything worth saving in major print media dating back to copyright expiration. Just save all the Vonnegut and Thompson stuff and ditch the rest. The REALLY imporant stuff is in the national archives anyway. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:55 PM Subject: Digitizing Archives Not So Easy > Article about the difficulty of preserving information in the digital age > http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,42842,00.html > > They like 9 track tapes probably because they understand them. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 15:19:10 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409201504.JLWS29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> There is some disagreement about jettisoning the radome. Not sure what made it fall off, but it is only a fiberglass bubble over a radar transceiver. Not terribly sturdy because it has to be transparent to radar waves. It is only there to protect the antennae and for aerodynamic purposes. I bet that is one of the only senders on the plane. The rest of it are antennae for receiving electronic intelligence such as radar frequencies, radio traffic, microwave traffic, and the like. In , on 04/09/01 at 04:19 PM, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: >On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: >> - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome >> got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially >> given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear >> damaged. >Was the missing radome collision damage? >Or would jettisoning the radome be standard procedure? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 15:22:24 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:01 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <12c417129c24.129c2412c417@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <20010409201953.JRGD29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I was referring to the hostages the Chinese are holding. I could care less about the plane. Not everyone has to agree of course, but being ex-Navy, and a veteran, I'm concerned for them and want them home as of the day before yesterday. In an issue of Stars and Stripes or Arab News (don't remember which one), a General officer of the Army replied in response to a question regarding our capabilities in fighting Iraq: "Oh, we could nuke Bagdad into glass, wipe it with Windex, tie fatback to our feet and go skating". The Chinese had better watch thier asses on this one because they may not get a second chance. I betcha dollars to doghnuts we are retargeting some of our missiles for Bejing and leaving them that way. Regards, Jeff In <12c417129c24.129c2412c417@bigpond.com>, on 04/09/01 at 04:22 PM, blacklord said: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Iggy Drougge >Date: Monday, April 9, 2001 3:47 pm >Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. >> > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. >> >> Our? >> >I agree with that last comment of yours, some people don't seem to >realise that this list is world-wide, it definitely isn't "our" plane, & >to tell the truth, I couldn't care less - can we get back on topic >peoples ? >telnet://commodore.thebbs.org >ftp://commodore.thebbs.org >---------------- >Powered by telstra.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 14:13:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD213B5.720A46B5@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Intrusion?? Offending?? Why, because Americans care about what is > taking place between the USA and China? I wouldn't be offended if an > Israeli talked about the stuff in there country with the Palestinians. > Why is it that because a list is "International" that everyone is > expected to pretend that they don't live in a country? Maybe the biggest objection is that it is completely and totally off-topic for a mailing list dedicated to discussing old computers? The LAST thing I want is an "Us vs. Them" argument in ClassicCmp. In ClassicCmp, as in Cyerbspace, there are no borders. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 15:27:14 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD213B5.720A46B5@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010409202544.JXXR29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> That may be a good thing. You should check out the life and times of a former U.S.A.A.F bomber pilot named Gary Davis. He wrote a book titled "My Country is the World" and contributed much to the world for having done so. I'm a registered World Citizen - passport and all. I think it is nice that the list is borderless. Someday our world will be too. No more internecine crap like what we are seeing now with the US and China. As for those hostages not being "our" people, I guess that is up to the individual to decide. They are certainly my people and I care. Regards, Jeff In <3AD213B5.720A46B5@internet1.net>, on 04/09/01 at 04:27 PM, Chad Fernandez said: >Intrusion?? Offending?? Why, because Americans care about what is taking >place between the USA and China? I wouldn't be offended if an Israeli >talked about the stuff in there country with the Palestinians. Why is it >that because a list is "International" that everyone is expected to >pretend that they don't live in a country? >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the >> very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. >> >> And it is decidedly off-topic. >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Mon Apr 9 15:36:50 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online References: Message-ID: <3AD21D62.960CE974@tinyworld.co.uk> Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Yesterday's post brought four CDs filled with TIFFs of PDP-11 > (and related) prints. They're available at: > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp Thanks Chris. I was delighted to see the VT100 and VT05 printsets up there. From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 15:39:09 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <986838640.3ad1f67074de3@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <20010409203854.KMHG29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Just to fan the flames, my stepfather found a useful reason to divide by zero on a Convergent Technologies system back in 78'. Not supposed to be possible. He was real proud of that bit of code. He was coding in a Basic/Cobol like language at the time. How bout an example of code? I've got some of the most Godawful examples you've seen. I was on a painkiller called Damason after a surgury. I converted a game from C3 basic to Atari Basic. 5500 If not xyzzy=0 then pop:pop:pop:pop:pop: gosub 2900 Really. In fact, the first couple of lines are like that. Patches of course. POP in Atari basic removes the last destination for a Return from a conditional branch (gosub)........... No wonder I don't make my living writing programs. Regards, Jeff In <986838640.3ad1f67074de3@email.ou.edu>, on 04/09/01 at 04:39 PM, "Jeffrey S. Sharp" said: >Quoting "McFadden, Mike" : >> It's nostalgia time >> Do you remember IBM JCL, Job Control Language? >> Do you remember DEC DOS/BATCH? >> Have you punched cards using a drum card? >> Have you used an O26 keypunch? >> Have you used an O29 keypunch? >> Have you played trek on at VT52? >> Have you entered data on a VT05? >> Have you used an RX01? >> Have you used a TU58? >Not me. Not yet, that is... >> I think a computer language and programming flame war is needed to >> clear the air and stoke the emotions :) >Ok, I'm game! Gotos are not inherently harmful. They are a tool, and as >such, can be used for both good and evil. In fact, I've written code >using gotos that is downright elegant. >And if that didn't do it, how about this: I haven't decided yet whether >total OO is a Good Thing or not. Someone set me straight! >-- >Jeffrey S. Sharp >jss@ou.edu -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 15:47:20 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> We are all adults here. I doubt this could turn into a flame war. One fellow mentioned it might be interesting to hear what other's think about it given the international nature of this list. Nothing beats a list of articulate propellerheads like this one. Regards, Jeff In , on 04/09/01 at 04:47 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: >> Intrusion?? Offending?? Why, because Americans care about what is >> taking place between the USA and China? I wouldn't be offended if an >> Israeli talked about the stuff in there country with the Palestinians. >> Why is it that because a list is "International" that everyone is >> expected to pretend that they don't live in a country? >Maybe the biggest objection is that it is completely and totally >off-topic for a mailing list dedicated to discussing old computers? >The LAST thing I want is an "Us vs. Them" argument in ClassicCmp. >In ClassicCmp, as in Cyerbspace, there are no borders. >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 15:44:58 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: New find - NEC "mini7 GX" word processor Message-ID: <20010409204458.68139.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> I was at a recent vehicle auction at the Volunteers of America (to look at the single-engine "experimental" one-seat airplane (that sold for ~$3600) and ran across an 1977 electronic sub-hunt game from Milton Bradley and an NEC mini7 GX dedicated word processor. I picked up the electronic game because it was 75% off green-tags day (making the game about $0.67) and I picked up the word processor because it came complete with all docs, spare floppies (720K 3.5"), spare ribbon, and an unused sheet feeder. Oh... I should mention... the docs and all the onscreen messages are in Japanese. It's my second Japanese WP (the first is a portable Sharp I got at a hamfest, but I've never found ribbons for it). After an extensive search on the web, all I could find (including on Japanese web pages) were a couple of translating utilities and a web page for a company that does media conversions. I do read _some_ Japanese (thus the interest in a word processor), but not much Kanji (a few, but mostly I read Katakana and Hirigana). The slim "getting started" guide is somewhat helpful, mostly because of all the pictures and labels in kana. Nevertheless, I am finding it quite difficult to get started with this thing. Has anyone on the list ever seen an NEC mini7? There are several models, some with dual floppy, some with floppy and hard disk (and, I think, a mini5 that may have dual floppy _plus_ hard disk). At this point, I can only read about 60% of the keyboard (lots of function keys, but I think I've figured out "shifuto" and "supeesu" ;-) The copyright dates in the docs and on screen indicate that this was made around 1986-1987. I haven't disassembled it yet (I've barely had time to power it on), but I'm guessing it has a V20 or similar processor in it. There is an optional RS-232 opening in the back (blank on mine) and a what appears to be a 36-pin centronics connector for an external printer as well as a smaller connector nearby that I'm guessing goes to the sheet feeder. *Any* information on this or something similar would be helpful. If I had a way to input kanji into Babelfish, I'd start translating keytops and phrases in the manual. I've been making a list of certain kanji I see over and over again and figure I'll need to learn. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Apr 9 16:06:43 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <20010409201504.JLWS29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: > There is some disagreement about jettisoning the radome. Not sure what > made it fall off, but it is only a fiberglass bubble over a radar > transceiver. Not terribly sturdy because it has to be transparent to > radar waves. It is only there to protect the antennae and for aerodynamic > purposes. I think what bugs me the most about that missing radome is that the radar emitter and hydraulic actuator(or fixed mount if the emitter is for a phased array system) seems to be missing as well. The picture I saw (admittedly on TV) didn't show much if any damage to that first station that the emitter assembly gets bolted to. This makes me think that it was removed post-landing... g. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 16:07:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Nostalgia (was RE: Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409210712.38629.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > It's nostalgia time > Do you remember IBM JCL, Job Control Language? Yep. Never wrote it, but I bummed quite a few lines/cards. Used it for testing DEC<->IBM stuff over COMBOARDs. We used to have a 4331 in-house when times were good. I remember when the microcode floppy drive died. We were dead in the water, since as as development house, we rebooted things on a regular basis (sometimes on purpose... then there was the time I learned what "IPL" stood for... ;-) > Do you remember DEC DOS/BATCH? Never used it, but I have the manual (the size of a phone book!) > Have you punched cards using a drum card? Yes, but only as a kid playing with the keypunch. > Have you used an O26 keypunch? Yes. Got one. Needs adjustment/cleaning. Wouldn't mind getting a few hundred punch cards for testing. > Have you used an O29 keypunch? Yes. As a kid playing outside the computer room at Ohio State in the late 1970s. Never had to keep my stuff on a deck, though. It was all DASD by the time I took a class. > Have you played trek on at VT52? Yes. On an ASR-33, too, on my own PDP-8/L w/paper-tape BASIC and 12Kw core. > Have you entered data on a VT05? Never touched one. Seen pictures - looks like it fell off the set of "Space: 1999". > Have you used an RX01? Many, many times, on my own PDP-8s and PDP-11s. I even serviced one for a former employer a couple of years ago (theirs developed a serious fault when the motor clogged with dust and the driver transistors set fire to the PCB). > Have you used a TU58? Many, many times, mostly booting VAX-11/725s and -11/730 (and the odd -11/750). I spent quite a while writing various flavors of boot tapes to optimize load times (>20 minutes with a factory tape, <5 minutes with an optimized one!) > The oldy and goldy Fortran II, remember go to's and format statements. > Don't forget all capitals. Only played with it on the PDP-8. My one and only programming class was on an Amdahl running WatFiv. I chose to go into the Data Center to use a 3270 terminal rather than fight the clunky line editors on the Wilbur (Wylbur?) system. One only two "A"s I got in college. :-) My turn: Have you run paper-tape diagostics? Have you emptied out a chad collector (bit bucket)? Have you used 9-track write rings as ammunition in a cube war? (one meter cardboard tubes make great launchers!) Have you toggled in a program? Did you have a dumb terminal on your desk? Have you ever mounted a removable disk pack? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 9 16:17:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online In-Reply-To: <3AD21D62.960CE974@tinyworld.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Apr 09, 2001 09:36:50 PM Message-ID: <200104092117.OAA03161@shell1.aracnet.com> Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Yesterday's post brought four CDs filled with TIFFs of PDP-11 > (and related) prints. They're available at: > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp Wow!!! Does anyone know of software to read these on UNIX or easily convert them to PDF files? Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 9 16:24:45 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchb ox> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010409142343.0276f858@208.226.86.10> At 04:47 PM 4/9/2001 -0400, Jeff wrote: >We are all adults here. I doubt this could turn into a flame war. We've been through this already Jeff and have established that we are all children here. (regardless of age) Which might go a long way toward explaining some of the threads :-) --Chuck From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Apr 9 16:36:14 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: > Nothing beats a list of articulate propellerheads like this one. > Hmmm. I smell a new .sig. "Nothing beats an articulate propellerhead." Hmmmm. :) g. From jss at ou.edu Mon Apr 9 16:35:19 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <986852119.3ad22b17bcbd2@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jay West : > I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an > old school. > So far, they have asked that I be a single point of contact so they > don't get innundated with calls. If anyone is interested, Please email > me asap or they will wind up on the junk heap. I'd probably be interested in some of that stuff. Especially TRS-80s. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 16:44:19 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: Message-ID: <3AD22D33.99F9223E@internet1.net> I agree that it is off-topic. However, off-topic discussions get tolerated all the time. I find it disturbing that any discussions specific to the US get blasted as being blatantly improper, rude, offensive, or whatever. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Sellam Ismail wrote: > Maybe the biggest objection is that it is completely and totally off-topic > for a mailing list dedicated to discussing old computers? > > The LAST thing I want is an "Us vs. Them" argument in ClassicCmp. > > In ClassicCmp, as in Cyerbspace, there are no borders. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Mon Apr 9 16:52:52 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Digitizing Archives Not So Easy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c0c13f$6ddf1210$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> The story I like in this thread of conversation is the one about how the creation of the first Hyperdocument CD for ACM-Siggraph. Now, Siggraph is a pretty cash rich organization at one time topping out ACM's SIG groups with the largest membership. Each member paid something like $100, plus the tradeshows which brought even more outsiders, paying more. These show tended to fill two or three of the best Hotels ($$) in the biggest cities. The paper 'Transactions' catalog was very expensively produced, with state of the art internal Xerox machinery. The director of the effort was a name figure in Computer Graphics. Quality and generational loss must have been very important to them because at one time they reproduced and remailed an entire monthly issue just because the rendered colors in one article were a little off. No doubt the transactions were Computer typeset. The Project director when tasked with making a CD of the whole thing did this: Sawed off the binding off the catalog and sent the whole thing to be re-scanned. If this is what they do with a current and in house item, then you can guess the rest. John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 9 17:15:24 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Digitizing Archives Not So Easy In-Reply-To: <000401c0c13f$6ddf1210$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409171333.02f66950@pc> At 05:52 PM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >Now, Siggraph is a pretty cash rich organization at one time >topping out ACM's SIG groups with the largest membership. >Each member paid something like $100, plus the tradeshows >which brought even more outsiders, paying more. Each Siggraph show would cost me five figures, but I was exhibiting. :-) The Proceedings CD from each show is/was quite expensive. I seem to remember paying several hundred dollars for each one, but I never ended up cracking the shrinkwrap on some of them. - John From gregorym at cadvision.com Mon Apr 9 17:08:02 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an 8088, with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on the motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged keyboard folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available that came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and heavy integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, there was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the system to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, that supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional info about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why do thrift stores never keep system components together?) and the HD was missing. Thanks, Mark Gregory From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 16:40:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > We are all adults here. I doubt this could turn into a flame war. One > fellow mentioned it might be interesting to hear what other's think about > it given the international nature of this list. > > Nothing beats a list of articulate propellerheads like this one. Nothing beats someone insisting on carrying on a completely off-topic discussion like a wooden club. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Apr 9 17:55:31 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3800 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010407193342.023907f0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD23DE3.DDD830F0@heathers.stdio.com> Chuck, Sorry for the slow response. My ISP took a lightening strike and was down since Sat. It is a B213 pedestal with DSSI drives. The card cage was pretty much left untouched but I beleive an ape removed the drives from the top. After a little metal bending it really doesn't look too bad now. I'm unsure of whats missing though as far as cables. I know I need to hunt down a TK-70 for it. I have its R400X companion which surprisingly was left mostly intact with the exception of a missing plastic panel on the top door. Brian. Chuck McManis wrote: > What cabinet do you have? Is it the BA213 pedestal, the BA215 narrow > pedestal (that actually would be a 3400 more likely), or an H9644 rack? > Also do you have DSSI drives or SDI drives? They take different panels. In > either event I can probably help. > --Chuck > > At 09:41 PM 4/7/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >Looking for parts for a MicroVAX 3800. A salvage yard did a number > >taking out the TK70 and a couple of drives. I finally have it back > >together and booting up. Now I am looking for the complete front door > >assembly and the silk screened label that fits over the front panel > >buttons. Willing to trade etc. > > > > > >Brian. -- ?????? From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 9 18:01:36 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Apple Lisa back panel In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409171333.02f66950@pc> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409171333.02f66950@pc> Message-ID: Does anyone have an extra, intact Apple Lisa back panel? Mine is broken at the thumb screw closest to the PSU and today I missed nabbing yet another on eBay when the seller cancled all bids and ended an auction early. This is the third that I've missed due to various reasons. Needless to say, the missing thumb screw on mine makes it difficult to run the machine. Thanks. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 9 18:04:38 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) Message-ID: <004501c0c14a$052a41d0$5b779a8d@ajp166> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > >Was the missing radome collision damage? >Or would jettisoning the radome be standard procedure? No. That would be an aerodynamic disaster as it could hit something important further back. FYI: that is an older survialence plane and likely hold fewer secrets that is believed. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 9 18:01:46 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) Message-ID: <004401c0c14a$04a9ee40$5b779a8d@ajp166> From: Chris Kennedy > >> Since the US plane is larger and slower than the Chinese fighters it >> would be effected more by the turbulence. The effect of turbulence is based on wing loading and wingspan. the E-3 having greater wingspan is less impacted as the figher wake is more localized. Further international flight rules stipulate that the faster and more maneuverable plane (fighter) MUST give way to the slower (E-3). >There's a bunch of problems with the Chinese claim that the EP-3 >made a sudden roll and thus caused the contact: Even if that were the case the fighers position was such that he would be invisible to the larger E-3. >- The photo evidence of the damage isn't consistent with running > into another airplane. The prop tips are munched, but the props > are still attached to the gearboxes and the gearboxes and engines > didn't depart the airframe. The damage is more consistent with > colliding with birds -- or debris. It was a close miss, likely the props did some nasty chewing on the fighter. Those mounts and gearboxes are very robust on that bird. >- The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome > got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially > given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear > damaged. Flying peices from the contact could be a factor. >It looks more like the Fishbed was trying to bump the Aries (which >essentially consists of passing under the Aires with a delta of >about +200 knots and pulling vertical) and wasn't up to the task. >The empennage collided with the radome, peeled the radome and part of >the empennage off and the Aires in turn plowed through the debris field. Likely. One common maneuver to rattle the slower bird is pass from the low and behind and pull up and infront crossing the path of the slower aircraft. Mistiming can be very bad. >Like saying that _he_ gave the downed pilot permission to bail out? >Since when does wing give lead permission to do anything (the usual >job of wing is to tuck in tight, shut up and listen to guard) -- or >was the surviving pilot lead, in which case what was the wingman doing >in a position where the only way he could collide with the Aires >would have been if the Aires went into Beta thrust? Exactly. Inconsistant stories. Add to that the chinese pilots do not get the air time the US pilots do and have less proficientcy. Allison From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 9 18:07:40 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010409071052.00a9a3b8@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: > I guess DEC/CPQ's not the only company to do a crummy job of maintaining > their history, though that doesn't really make me feel better... It is quite likely that IBM still has an 1131. Also, remember that IBM is rather "funny" about their old software and docs, and generally don't like to talk about it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Apr 9 18:09:10 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: For Sale: PDP-8/i w/ Paper Tape In-Reply-To: <20010409135533.94082.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Do the spares go with the machine or would they be a seperate deal? I'm > always in the market for spare DEC parts to keep the machines I _do_ have > working. No, they don't, but can be used by anyone that needs parts. Let me know modules you need, and I will dig. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From nemo at net.house.cx Mon Apr 9 18:11:56 2001 From: nemo at net.house.cx (nemo@net.house.cx) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: goodbye / giveaway Message-ID: <20010410091156.A25505@net.house.cx> I've not been active on this list, but circumstances force my hand and I must depart. I also want to clear my rooms of stuff that's filling my place. I have a Tektronix 4012 terminal (vaguelly working - the screen lights up) to anyone who wants it and can pick it up. I'm in Canberra, Australia. I've got a few other items around that might be of interest to people. Some Xterminals (not actually 10 years old, but still older than most people want to know about) and WYSE terminals. (one that works, one that is probably fixable, and one that probably isn't) You'll have to email me directly if you're interested. cheers... .../Nemo From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 17:01:53 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD22D33.99F9223E@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I agree that it is off-topic. However, off-topic discussions get > tolerated all the time. I find it disturbing that any discussions > specific to the US get blasted as being blatantly improper, rude, > offensive, or whatever. Chad, where did you get this (erroneous) impression? Off-topic discussions usually just happen as a consequence of topical discussions, and it was slowly learned over the years that no matter how much bitching and griping goes on about it, they always eventually go away on their own. In this case, an off-topic discussion was specifically started by Jeffrey Worley, who all too regularly does this. Sorry, but I have to draw the line on this, especially when someone comes to the defense of it. It is NOT acceptable. Case in point: would you like me to begin a discussion on my hemorrhoids? I don't actually have hemorrhoids, but that's inconsequential. I want to talk about them. Chad, do you want to talk about hemorrhoids? I didn't think so. So why do you think it's OK to begin a discussion about spy planes being shot down, when there are probably a hundred threads discussing this going on at other more appropriate places? More importantly, why do you think it's rude for anyone to object? This list is international in scope, and narrow in focus. We are a world-wide group of individuals collected here to mainly talk about old computers. We are not here to discuss world politics, or the US military, or guns, or automobiles (gee, there isn't a topic I just mentioned that wasn't brought up by Jeffrey at some point...hmmm). Is that OK with you, Chad? Am I unpatriotic for insisting that we keep an off-topic thread, of which probably only Americans and Chinese are interested in, off a mailing list about classic computers? Hmmmm? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 9 18:16:23 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) Message-ID: <00d401c0c14c$369eb5a0$5b779a8d@ajp166> >From: "Eric J. Korpela" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:48 AM >Subject: Re: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) > > >> > - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome >> > got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially >> > given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear >> > damaged. >> >> I've assumed that the missing radome was part of the "landing >>preparations" if you know what I mean. Far from likely, the dome it self is just a RF transparent window and all the goodies, radar antenna and bits, are mounted to the aircraft. The seperation like for a contact would be clean as the dome is removeable with ease for maintenace on the equipment behind it. Besides the dome leaving would likely contact other parts of the plane on the way past doing significant damage. What I can't figure is why the figher pilot didn't punch out unless his path was such that his canopy was scraped off taking him with it. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 9 18:20:03 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Message-ID: <00d501c0c14c$370e4050$5b779a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >The operable variables are: Method of Propulsion - wind power stays on >course, motors maneuver. Size: The smaller vessel is generally the more >maneuverable and is obliged to do so. Very so for aircraft. it has more depth as there are blimps, choppers, sailplanes but the rule is basically the same everywhere. >There are other rules as well, but these two suit this situation very >nicely. Fast, jet powered fighter aircraft can and should avoid colliding >with butt slow prop-driven piglike aircraft. Really, that is the first >duty of any fighter pilot after taking off and before landing. The rest >is trying to SHOOT down the bad guys. Ramming them is not nearly so >effective, as our Chinese friends have learned. It's a result of serious pilot error on the part of the figher pilot. Allison From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Apr 9 18:20:38 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <004401c0c14a$04a9ee40$5b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Allison wrote: > From: Chris Kennedy > >> Since the US plane is larger and slower than the Chinese fighters it >> would be effected more by the turbulence. You screwed up the attribution. This wasn't me -- I did the wing loading calcs to refute it :-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 18:32:46 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409232646.RMVO29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Aw, Sellam, why you gotta be like that? If I were the only one interested then I could understand. But I don't because I'm not. Love. Regards, Jeff In , on 04/09/01 at 07:32 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >Nothing beats someone insisting on carrying on a completely off-topic >discussion like a wooden club. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 17:18:34 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD22D33.99F9223E@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010409232844.ROZC29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Like that wierd Gieco commercial ( an automotive insurance company for you foreigners ;-0). I think the whole purpose of this group is to have fun. People want to have fun. If it serves them to discuss something not wholely dedicated to computing, then let them. We do. We do. We enjoy computers. That is fun. We enjoy talking with each other. That is fun. It is all about fun so ... have some! On topic for this message and in response, I have some rap lyrics for you by Sir Mix Alot. I'm living like hell in a world of death Protectors of the people wear bullet-proof vests You little nit, you flipped him an Uzi took to the street, shot em' up then WHO ME? Locked in a trap by Republican villains pinstripe suits, experts at killin' Civil war, but some want out locked in a trap called the ghetto we shout Heading for the strip cause' the squares ain't hip sell a couple g's, make the homeboys trip The President is a dope-man's friend the government's strong but the dope got in. Punish the accused but the trial was short A black mans' dogged in an all-white court. Jury's dismissed, the prosecutor says "can em'" Now I'm ashamed of my national anthem The Pentagon had a plan for rescue they said intelligence never makes misques The thirty-first was a day of death Lt. Col. Higgins....You know the rest. Not negotiations with a terrorist force but Iran's still buzzin off of Oliver North The Iatollah's dead but the hearts' not gone The burning of the flag Iran goes' on. Anti-Americans - we're loved by few we pay big money to the ones that do The Christian Militia - they give us big knowledge but the Pentagon messed up and wouldn't acknowlege Ollie took orders from the number one man but the crap hit the fan and superiors ran Democrats trip. The committee said 'Can em'' Now I'm ashamed of my national anthem. Am I a communist? No. But my brain ain't slow not long ago Mix-a-Lot was po' Never helped out by the one's with clout I was mad at the world cause' I felt left out Stealin' hub caps, stereos, anything to get paid I realized I'm a modern-day slave Posse downtown, the sight was sad saw my homeboy's mother with a buggy and a bag people walked by, laughing at poverty I looked in her face and I soon saw me College educated, but she can't get a job The American dream once again got robbed Vietnam vets on the street? That's a shame. Fight for the man and the man plays games. Dogged by the hippies. Dope smoking critics. You blame it on the soldier but your government did it. Bolivia, Columbia, the CIA, - any similarities - I won't say But the dope gets in uncut like pfunk headin' over boarders in a scent-free trunk Coffee over dope but the dog cain't sniff it remember that lady that was broke? She's with it. Started with a key, clocked 17g's got another shipment pure D Headin' for Portland, the money was better Rollin' in a Porche and a Cashmere sweater Crime, revenge, I'm telling you this the people that laughed are the people that noticed her community complained, callin' the police but where was her community when she was in the streets? The dope's commin' in. It's killin' em' at random. Now I'm ashamed of my National Anthem. >From Jeff, Sup to you to figure out how this ties in, but I'll give you a hint. Nationalism never got us anywhere. Ask Adolf if you can find him. L. Jeff In <3AD22D33.99F9223E@internet1.net>, on 04/09/01 at 06:18 PM, Chad Fernandez said: >I agree that it is off-topic. However, off-topic discussions get >tolerated all the time. I find it disturbing that any discussions >specific to the US get blasted as being blatantly improper, rude, >offensive, or whatever. >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA >Sellam Ismail wrote: >> Maybe the biggest objection is that it is completely and totally off-topic >> for a mailing list dedicated to discussing old computers? >> >> The LAST thing I want is an "Us vs. Them" argument in ClassicCmp. >> >> In ClassicCmp, as in Cyerbspace, there are no borders. >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Apr 9 18:29:10 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >Not to start a flame war, but... > Fwooosh! > Fighter jet and large heavy turboprop spy plane collide, and I think by > definition the bulk of the blame has to go on the fighterjet. > > Want some wild speculation? How about the fighter pilot was INSTRUCTED to > crash into the spy plane to force it to land on chinese soil. > China's definition of the boundary of their nation isn't the same as ours (in the US). IIRC, they claim 200 miles of ocean, and we claim 50 miles of ocean. I may be wrong on the numbers, but the idea is correct. Put the shoe on the other foot... If China was flying a plane with the sole purpose of intercept our communications traffic within OUR territorial waters, you can be certain a pair of US fighters would force them out, or crash them, or probably even shoot them down. Why do we, as Americans, feel we can do whatever we want, whenever we want? We didn't learn our lesson when the U2 was shot down over Russia? We didn't learn our lesson in the Bay of Pigs fiasco? I think the blame rests solely with the idiots in Washington, DC that sent the spy plane out to begin with... > IMHO Greed, worldwide, is currently blinding people to a proper course of > action with China. > I agree with this. It's a huge market for our goods, and a huge pool of cheap labor to make goods for us. If you can get a room full of children to sew shoes for pennies a day, and sell the same shoes for $100 in the US, there are a lot of dollars available to buy the goverment you want... clint PS And how 'bout Bush selling his soul to the oil & gas interests? Does anyone other than me think the California energy crisis and the midwest gasoline prices were deliberately set up to encourage legislation to allow exploration in Alaska and other federally protected wilderness areas? From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 18:36:54 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3AD24796.92A3CE6B@internet1.net> Hello, I used to know some people that owned one. They loved it, and used it up into the mid 90s. The mom really liked the gui, and sort of prided herself in owning such an old pre-win95 computer that had a gui. I guess I can agree with her on that part, but I thought the GUI was kind of dorky :-) As far as surplus stores not keeping stuff together goes.... I can't agree with you more. I am always finding stuff scattered at Goodwill. If someone doesn't buy something in the first few days, people rip it apart and scatter it! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mark Gregory wrote: > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an 8088, > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on the > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged keyboard > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available that > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and heavy > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, there > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the system > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, that > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional info > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why do > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > and the HD was missing. > > Thanks, > Mark Gregory From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 18:43:24 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Apr 9 18:48:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> from Jay West at "Apr 9, 1 12:54:19 pm" Message-ID: <200104092348.QAA10318@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > All I know at this point is that most of the systems are Commodore Pet, > Commodore superPet, and TRS-80. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a bunch of > apples there too, and lord knows what else. Location is Arizona. I'd be interested in the SuperPET(s). I might even be persuaded to drive out there but shipping would be much better :-) (Location, San Bernardino, Calif.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you're not very clever, you should be conciliatory. -- Benjamin Disraeli From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 18:53:04 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010409234714.SIDJ29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Yes. Of course we would, but we would not ever COLLIDE with that aircraft. That would be counter productive to both the US and it's pilot. Regards, Jeff In , on 04/09/01 at 07:53 PM, "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" said: >Put the shoe on the other foot... If China was flying a plane with the >sole purpose of intercept our communications traffic within OUR >territorial waters, you can be certain a pair of US fighters would force >them out, or crash them, or probably even shoot them down. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From dogbert at mindless.com Mon Apr 9 18:52:31 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: Message-ID: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > Find a cheap Chinese-made replacement keyboard. Hehe, brilliant reply. I was hoping to do something more home-made and customized to have the same layout. The odds of getting that in a premade keyboard are about the same as that crash actually being deliberate from either side, which is to say, low. But conspiracy theories are fun. :-) All flames from my prior mail, please direct to dogbert@mindless.com instead of the list. Sorry for posting whilst aggravated at the sheer number of accidents that seem to be happening lately. > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dogbert at mindless.com Mon Apr 9 18:59:30 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware Message-ID: <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com> Used to be, you could go to Radio Shock and purchase one of those solder-yourself 44-pin edgecards that mate with the KIM-4 expansion board. I'm thinking one way around my dead keyboard issue which also solves my desire for expansion would be to add a CPLD decoder, 32K SRAM, 32K ROM (with holes around the 6530s and remapping new patched monitor into $1800-$1FFF), and 6551 UART/MAX232 combo to input code and d/l intel hex. (The cassette interface on poor KIM is dead, too.) By the way, if anyone's interested, I have a generic 6502 Intel Hex program downloader program that allows you to assemble and directly download programs from the development PC into your SBC. It's freeware so have at it if anyone finds it useful. It's at: http://www.6502.org/source/monitors/intelhex/intelhex.htm From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 19:04:57 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: Message-ID: <3AD24E29.DCB052CB@internet1.net> Sellam, I have included comments below the referenced material. Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > I agree that it is off-topic. However, off-topic discussions get > > tolerated all the time. I find it disturbing that any discussions > > specific to the US get blasted as being blatantly improper, rude, > > offensive, or whatever. > > Chad, where did you get this (erroneous) impression? Personal observation of mailing list behavior. > Off-topic discussions usually just happen as a consequence of topical > discussions, and it was slowly learned over the years that no matter how > much bitching and griping goes on about it, they always eventually go away > on their own. > > In this case, an off-topic discussion was specifically started by Jeffrey > Worley, who all too regularly does this. Sorry, but I have to draw the > line on this, especially when someone comes to the defense of it. It is > NOT acceptable. It varies by list, but I see off topic stuff started now and again. You can read it, or not read it, just as easily as you can not read a thread that started "on-topic". > Case in point: would you like me to begin a discussion on my hemorrhoids? > I don't actually have hemorrhoids, but that's inconsequential. I want to > talk about them. Well, if you really want to, but it's probably a thread I won't read :-) > > Chad, do you want to talk about hemorrhoids? See above :-) > > I didn't think so. So why do you think it's OK to begin a discussion > about spy planes being shot down, when there are probably a hundred > threads discussing this going on at other more appropriate places? > > More importantly, why do you think it's rude for anyone to object? No, you misunderstood. I said the offenders (the US off-topic people) are seen as "being blatantly improper, rude, offensive, or whatever." I do get irritated by the people that see it this way. > > This list is international in scope, and narrow in focus. We are a > world-wide group of individuals collected here to mainly talk about old > computers. We are not here to discuss world politics, or the US military, > or guns, or automobiles (gee, there isn't a topic I just mentioned that > wasn't brought up by Jeffrey at some point...hmmm). Generally, I don't keep track of who brings what up. > > Is that OK with you, Chad? Am I unpatriotic for insisting that we keep an > off-topic thread, of which probably only Americans and Chinese are > interested in, off a mailing list about classic computers? Dude your are really mad, and need to cool off. It's not that big a deal. Look at how many people are actually taking part in the thread. If people objected that much to it, I don't think they would be actively participating. > Hmmmm? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org I like your sig BTW. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 19:12:57 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids In-Reply-To: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010410000753.TBZB29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Sellam would have probably beaten me at my 6th grade spelling bee. Better a live ignorant that a dead genius I suppose... I meant right. That counts no? Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From cbajpai at mediaone.net Mon Apr 9 19:17:35 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409134030.02415100@pc> Message-ID: I wouldn't say they are looking for token donations...I've exchanged some emails with them and they are looking for ebay like prices for the SuperPets. They wanted $50 shipping for each unit (SuperPet, TRS-80, Apple etc.) without regard to the weight/actual shipping costs. -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:41 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! At 12:54 PM 4/9/01 -0500, Jay West wrote: >I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an old school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other purposes, and found what they describe as a large amount of old microcomputers in storage there. They don't want them, and want to take offers for them. It sounds like they will take a "token donation" for a system or systems or maybe the whole lot. Sounds like this: >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:10:09 -0600 >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >From: John Foust >Subject: Rescue / Sale in AZ: PET, Tandy, Apple, PC > > >This is somewhere in the Phoenix/Tucson/Flagstaff area. :-) > >- John > >----------------- > >Here is a fairly complete list of the old computer stuff that we have which is available to the highest bid. > >We are a non-profit 501 (c)(3) educational institution, we have >just obtained a old elementary school which was being used by >the school district to store old things from every school, so >there is a large variety of things. We dont know their condition >exactly, or whether they work. Sold in as is condition and you >pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - >would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it >out to whom ever would love it. > >**If you are in the USA your contribution would be tax-deductible! > >If you have questions or comments call us at: (520) 432-4200 >or e-mail fnweird@earthlink.net . > >Thankx! Carmen & Bob Bryant > >APPLE : >Apple IIc - (no Monitors; a white box with key board) [seven units] >Apple 51/4 external Floppy drives Model Disk II [eight units] >Apple (small) keybords [five] >Apple Unidisk [one] >Apple Numeric Key Pad IIe [one] >CompuAdd Computer [one] >Apple Monitor III [five] >Apple II Plus (no monitor) [one] >Apple Monitors [four] >Apple Graphics tablets large 16" x 16" Model A2M0029 [three] > >COMMODORE >Comm. PET Model 4016 [one] >Comm. Single Floppy (5 1/4) Drive Model 1541 [two] >Comm. 4023 Printers [eleven] >Comm. 4022 Printer [two] >Comm. (5 1/4) floppy Extern. Drive Model 2031LP [five] >Comm. Super PET SP9000 (with monitor attached) [seven] >Comm PET Model 4032 (with monitor) [five] >Comm. CBM Model 8032 [two] >Comm. CBM Dual Floppy Model 8050 [two] >Comm. Dual Drive Floppy [one] >Comm. Single Drive Floppy (5 1/4) Model 2031 [one] >Comm. 64 Keyboard [four] >Comm. Cassette Plug-in Datasette [three] >Comm. Cassette C2N [one] >Comm. Tractor Printer Model 4022 [one[ > >Other : >Panasonic Printers KX-P1080i And KX - P1091 [one of each] >IBM Transcriber Model 172 [four] >Ventel Model 1200-1 [three] >Sanyo Memo Scriber (with cassette built in) [four] > >Monitors: >IBM Mon. Model 8513001 [one] >Leading Edge Mon. Model DR-1240 [three] >also Leading Edge Keyboard [one] >CTX Color Monitor 14" Model CVP5468A [one] >Amdek Video-300 Mon. [one] >Citizen Mon. [one] >Zenith Data Systems Mon. Model ZVM 121 [one] > >other keyboards: >Zenith Data Systems [four] >Wyse Key. [one] >unknown brands [three] > >RADIO SHACK >TRS-80 Model III 48 K RAM (Monitor built in, with cassettee hook up in back) [seven] >TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer 64 K (monitor built in and cassette plug in) [seven] > ** some of these have built in smoky glass filter attached to front >TRS-80 64K Keyboard [ten] >    Mini Disk Drive [one] > TRS-80 DMP 200 Printer [one] >   Video Display (1979) [one] >   DWP-210 Daisy Wheel Printer [one] > >Tandy 1000sx (Dual floppy, no mon.) [six] >   Not working/parts gone [two] >Tandy 64 K Color Monitor [one] >Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP 430 [one] >Tandy Monitor VM-4 [one] >Tandy 190 Keyboard [one] > >Other: >Heyer Model 93 Thermal Processor [one] >Espirit Computer by Hazeltine (PET look-alike) [one] >Viasyn Dual 5 1/4 Disk Drive [one] >BMC - 800 Model 20 (with monitor on stand) [two] >Epson computer Model Equality I+ (has single floppy ) with keyboard [one] > >Viasyn Computer from Hayward CA. CompuPro System 8/16 Serial#068899 [one] >Racal-Milgo / OMXIMODE 96 [one] >IBM Type 4869 (made in Japan) 5 1/4 Floppy Drive [one] >Data Frame 20/Super Mac Technology (120v,60 Hz) box > with switch, male three prong plug; and two ports [one] >Power supply [one] >Texas Instruments Business System 300 Monitor [one] >3M Thermo Fax The Secretary Copier/Transper. Maker [two] >American Seating Masterboard for audio controls on large table w/two tapes/reels [one] >NCR Model 399 Console [one] >Zenthen & Aagaard (Copenhagen Denmark) Abdick 588 Stencil Maker >IBM Model 4226-320 Printer [one] >IBM 4226 Printer Ribbons [one] > >ALSO- >Old DITTO and Mimeograph Machines and parts including paste ink pads [ten] >Type writers - Royal [newer X one; very old X five] >IBM Personal Wheelwriter2 [two] >IBM Quietwriter III Printer 5202 [one] >BMC electric [two] >IBM Selectric III [two] >Maxwell Pro/Indust. Videocassette U-Matic Still Frame Reproduction [twelve] >Texas Instruments Computer (large & Heavy ) Serial # 0550001424 [one] >Wollensak triple tape cassette duplicator Model 2772 [one] >Sony U-matic Model VO-2600 [one] >Tandy 1000 Personal Computer Keyboard [seven] > >BOOKS >IBM Personal Computer Hardware Reference Library 3.0 BASIC > (Hard bound ringed binder in fiberboard case, wrapped, like new [twelve] >IBM Personal Computer Guide To Operations with floppy [twelve] >Tandy 1000sx Manual excellent condition [one] >Apple IIc A Touch of Applesoft Basic [five] >Apple Getting Started With Your Apple II GS [fifteen] >Apple Color RGB Monitor Owners Manual (IIgs) [eight] >Apple 3.5 Drive Owner Guide [three] >Apple II GS Owner Reference [eight] >Appel Image Writer II Owner Manual [one] >Apple II GS System Drive Users Guide [one] >Apple II GS Owner Manual(in wrapper) From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 19:15:39 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware In-Reply-To: <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com> Message-ID: <20010410001232.TGIU29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> MIght try www.atari.org. They have links to the common suppliers of obsolecent Atari gear. Including development boards and the like. Wish I could remember all of them, but: BravoSierra is one, B&C Computervisions is another, and there are a couple of others that escape my perforated memory. Acid is not a good thing for your long-term memory.... Regards, Jeff In <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com>, on 04/09/01 at 08:15 PM, Ross Archer said: >Used to be, you could go to Radio Shock and purchase one of those >solder-yourself 44-pin edgecards that mate with the KIM-4 expansion >board. I'm thinking one way around my dead keyboard issue which also >solves my desire for expansion would be to add a CPLD decoder, 32K SRAM, >32K ROM (with holes around the 6530s >and remapping new patched monitor into $1800-$1FFF), and 6551 UART/MAX232 >combo to input code and d/l intel hex. (The cassette interface on poor >KIM is dead, too.) >By the way, if anyone's interested, I have a generic 6502 Intel Hex >program downloader program that allows you to assemble and directly >download programs from the development PC into your SBC. It's freeware so >have at it if anyone finds it useful. >It's at: > http://www.6502.org/source/monitors/intelhex/intelhex.htm -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From KB9VU at aol.com Mon Apr 9 19:17:42 2001 From: KB9VU at aol.com (KB9VU@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: I have 3 H-89s, 2 H8s, an H19, H29, original Zenith 10 Meg HD with the on board 8" drive, several 8" dual drives, spare SS and DS 5" drives, several spare 5" HH and FH hard drives, controller boards, CPU and TLB boards, spare I/O and RAM boards, drives, chips, hardware. A ton of original documentation and software. All of the systems are in operating condition. Spare parts are used and NOS. Free to the first person that picks it up within the next 7 days in St. Louis, MO E-Mail direct if you want the collection. kb9vu@aol.com After 7 days it goes to the dump. We are moving and it just can't be moved with us this time. Thanks. Mike From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 19:22:45 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <20010409232844.ROZC29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD25255.E4866AE0@internet1.net> THETechnoid@home.com wrote: Jeff, >From Jeff, Sup to you to figure out how this ties in, but I'll give you a > hint. Nationalism never got us anywhere. Ask Adolf if you can find him. Please don't equate Hitler with Nationalism. True, Hitler used nationalism but to the level of abuse. Every nation should be able to have a sense of National pride (nationalism). One world govt. won't solve anything, I think it was you who alluded to one world govt.? For instance, the situation that took place in the Gulf War, the Iraqis were going after a smaller group in there own country. Then the whole deal in the former Chekoslovakia (spelling?). Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 9 19:25:03 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Sellam References: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD252DF.719877B2@internet1.net> Jeff, Stop that. Just becasue Sellam got a litte upset doesn't mean you have to antagonize him.... even though it might be fun :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > > Regards, > > Jeff From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:15:02 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010409232844.ROZC29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I think the whole purpose of this group is to have fun. People want > to have fun. If it serves them to discuss something not wholely > dedicated to computing, then let them. We do. We do. Jeff, go fucking blow yourself. > We enjoy computers. That is fun. We enjoy talking with each other. That > is fun. It is all about fun so ... have some! It would seem your idea of having fun is smoking crack. God bless you, but must you take us all down with you? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:21:14 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids In-Reply-To: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... My hemorrhoids are a rare variety called Worleyites. The nastiest type you can get. Usually onset by smoking crack. I've been trying to break the habit but everytime I have to endure an off-topic thread started by Jeffrey I just have to hit that pipe! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:24:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:02 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <200104092348.QAA10318@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > All I know at this point is that most of the systems are Commodore Pet, > > Commodore superPet, and TRS-80. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a bunch of > > apples there too, and lord knows what else. Location is Arizona. > > I'd be interested in the SuperPET(s). I might even be persuaded to > drive out there but shipping would be much better :-) (Location, San > Bernardino, Calif.) Probably anyone's best bet is to get out there with a truck. Tuscon is the closest major city. It takes about an hour and a half to two hours to get from Tuscon to Bisbee (the drive is nice, you go through Tombstone on the way...make sure you stop at Boot Hill and check out the gravesites!) Someone could fly into Tuscon with a cheap ticket, rent a UHaul and drive over to Bisbee, load everything up, then take it back to Tuscon for packing. ForwardAir has a depot in Tuscon, so you could palletize it all and have it shipped back to home base for distribution. Still, I don't think there's enough there of interest to go through all this trouble and expense, unless it was one individual wanting to start their computer collection off with a bang :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elvey at hal.com Mon Apr 9 19:36:52 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <004501c0c14a$052a41d0$5b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200104100036.f3A0arZ09422@civic.hal.com> "ajp166" wrote: > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > > > >Was the missing radome collision damage? > >Or would jettisoning the radome be standard procedure? > > > No. That would be an aerodynamic disaster as it could > hit something important further back. > > FYI: that is an older survialence plane and likely hold fewer > secrets that is believed. > > Allison Hi Allison The age of the plane has little to do with what was on board. Looking at the picture of the plane, it at least had a phase array antenna on it. The electronics used on those planes simply plugs into bays. This means that any level of gear could have been on the plane. They landed about 20 minutes after the hit. They, like any similar operations, would have a destruct list. It is more likely that most of the sensitive gear is at the bottom of the ocean with most of its guts fused into a ball by a thermite pack. Dwight From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:29:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > > > Find a cheap Chinese-made replacement keyboard. > > Hehe, brilliant reply. > > I was hoping to do something more home-made > and customized to have the same layout. > The odds of getting that in a premade keyboard > are about the same as that crash actually > being deliberate from either side, which is > to say, low. But conspiracy theories are fun. :-) Ok, so all kidding aside, your best bet is to probably find a batch of surplus KIM-1 keyboards (this is not as far-fetched as you may think...certainly less far-fetched than the idea of Jeffrey staying on topic ;) The next equally impossible suggestion is to find another KIM-1 that is mostly junk and use it for parts. I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one of Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and disassemble it to clean the contacts? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:40:10 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD24E29.DCB052CB@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > No, you misunderstood. I said the offenders (the US off-topic people) > are seen as "being blatantly improper, rude, offensive, or whatever." I > do get irritated by the people that see it this way. Chad, I feel this way about ANYONE who starts an off-topic discussion, be they American, Chinese, Mexican or Arab. But I've learned from past experience that it is pointless to try to fight it. Those that indulge in the off-topic discussions will do it because they are perhaps rude and selfish. It's true that the best advice is to ignore it and move on to the next message, and eventually the thread will die. But I found it necessary to create another off-topic thread to object to your objection (thus proving I am guilty too, ergo rude and selfish :) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > I like your sig BTW. Thanks, it's all true. In fact, I am the pilot of the EP-3, writing this message from confinement on Hainan Island in China. Luckily they gave us e-mail access so we could communicate with friends and family back home, but I took advantage of the opportunity to catch up on ClassicCmp messages. Bandwidth is limited here, so that's why I'm getting peeved at all this off-topic discussion about the incident (which, by the way, I cannot talk about for obvious reasons :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:42:08 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids In-Reply-To: <20010410000753.TBZB29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Sellam would have probably beaten me at my 6th grade spelling bee. > Better a live ignorant that a dead genius I suppose... I meant right. > That counts no? Don't feel too badly, I had to look it up myself. Although I must say I got it more right than you on the first try (I substituted two m's for two r's). You're missing an 'h' and have one too many 'e's. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:43:51 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware In-Reply-To: <20010410001232.TGIU29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > BravoSierra is one, B&C Computervisions is another, and there are a > couple of others that escape my perforated memory. Acid is not a good > thing for your long-term memory.... I was never one to turn down a good tab of acid but it looks like you went way over the top, Jeffrey. This explains everything :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:44:50 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD25255.E4866AE0@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Please don't equate Hitler with Nationalism. True, Hitler used > nationalism but to the level of abuse. Every nation should be able to > have a sense of National pride (nationalism). Well, except the Germans, right Hans? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 9 19:58:14 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware In-Reply-To: <20010410001232.TGIU29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchb ox> References: <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010409205814.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that THETechnoid@home.com may have mentioned these words: >MIght try www.atari.org. They have links to the common suppliers of >obsolecent Atari gear. Including development boards and the like. > >Wish I could remember all of them, but: > >BravoSierra is one, B&C Computervisions is another, and there are a couple >of others that escape my perforated memory. Acid is not a good thing for >your long-term memory.... > >Regards, > >Jeff Those are good suggestions, but IMHO the atari dealers get kinda expensive... the 44-pin slots were actually quite standard, and are available from www.jameco.com & *prolly* (but don't quote me) from www.bgmicro.com. Jameco also has the 44-pin edge proto boards, which might be handy if you like to do homebrew electronics. These guys carry a lot of older things, but they don't (usually) want an arm & leg from you... Another good place to try is www.mouser.com - I'm not affiliated with them other than a very satisfied customer... Jameco wants a $5.00 "processing fee" for orders under $50.00, so you might want to browse the catalog for other stuff they carry... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merberger (Oh, Jeff - I did get your email, but things have been crazy over the winter - I have quaffed a few ales with your brother (and he likes my homebrew... ;-), he only lives a few miles from me.) -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 18:46:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 KB9VU@aol.com wrote: > I have 3 H-89s, 2 H8s, an H19, H29, original Zenith 10 Meg HD with the > on board 8" drive, several 8" dual drives, spare SS and DS 5" drives, > several spare 5" HH and FH hard drives, controller boards, CPU and TLB > boards, spare I/O and RAM boards, drives, chips, hardware. A ton of > original documentation and software. All of the systems are in > operating condition. Spare parts are used and NOS. Free to the first > person that picks it up within the next 7 days in St. Louis, MO > > E-Mail direct if you want the collection. kb9vu@aol.com QUITE the Heathkit score for whomever can get out that way first! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 19:51:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request In-Reply-To: References: <3AD1BB14.69D0935D@atari-history.com> from "Curt Vendel" at Apr 09, 2001 09:37:24 AM Message-ID: >> Sure, I'd be happy to ship one, I'd highly recommend shipping by boat, If several would be going overseas, why not look into shipping a single pallet? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 19:56:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Our? > >Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the >very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. I agree, America should quietly shoulder the burden of world peace, so that citizens of third world countries are not disturbed. From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 9 20:12:24 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? [ snip ] >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one of >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and disassemble >it to clean the contacts? I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and I don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the next couple days if that'd help... Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 9 20:21:34 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <200104100036.f3A0arZ09422@civic.hal.com> References: <004501c0c14a$052a41d0$5b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010409181937.02b5e768@208.226.86.10> and Both from Janes detail the planes capabilities, its load out, etc. No guessing required. --Chuck From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 9 20:32:07 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Looking for Hayes LANStep Message-ID: <000b01c0c15e$0fe31200$8915a38e@98box> Does anyone out there have a copy of this? I remember using it all the time when my school had a nice, respectable computer network and not the Windows NT garbage they have now. I loved the interface, not the best looking thing around but real user friendly and all. If anyone has a copy, let me know. -Lanny From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 20:35:02 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010410014158.WRHU29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Beleive it or not. I'm on topic. Not to let the cat out of the bag but to do exactly that, Computer Parts Barn has several machines you might be EXTREMELY interested in. An original Kim An original Imsai 8080 An original Sim An original Sol20? All for sale (at the right price) -- and others. If you want a full account, I will visit there and inventory. I'm only a couple of miles from there. The deal is that the proprietor is expecting to retire on this gear or something like it. No phone, no loan. Dig? He want's full freight for this gear, but if you offer something close to full freight, he will bite. He also has a couple of 16bit DG boxes among his 8-bit gear. If you saw the collection you would die of bliss. For myself, I'd love to have one or all those killer 8-bit boxes but we don't have the money to spend on toys right now. These machines are dry, well kept, maybe a bit dusty. They have not had power for decades but are complete. Best, worst kept secret on the web. You want one? Call Ed Kirby at EdCPB@email.com. or give me a ring at the numbers or email adresses below. I'll work hard for you and it won't cost you anything but what it costs for the gear itsself. His number is 828-274-5963. Good luck and happy hunting! Regards, Jeff Others are a poor condition Pet 2002. In , on 04/09/01 at 09:35 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? >> > >> > Find a cheap Chinese-made replacement keyboard. >> >> Hehe, brilliant reply. >> >> I was hoping to do something more home-made >> and customized to have the same layout. >> The odds of getting that in a premade keyboard >> are about the same as that crash actually >> being deliberate from either side, which is >> to say, low. But conspiracy theories are fun. :-) >Ok, so all kidding aside, your best bet is to probably find a batch of >surplus KIM-1 keyboards (this is not as far-fetched as you may >think...certainly less far-fetched than the idea of Jeffrey staying on >topic ;) >The next equally impossible suggestion is to find another KIM-1 that is >mostly junk and use it for parts. >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one of >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and >disassemble it to clean the contacts? >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From bill at cs.scranton.edu Mon Apr 9 21:16:09 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 KB9VU@aol.com wrote: > > > I have 3 H-89s, 2 H8s, an H19, H29, original Zenith 10 Meg HD with the > > on board 8" drive, several 8" dual drives, spare SS and DS 5" drives, > > several spare 5" HH and FH hard drives, controller boards, CPU and TLB > > boards, spare I/O and RAM boards, drives, chips, hardware. A ton of > > original documentation and software. All of the systems are in > > operating condition. Spare parts are used and NOS. Free to the first > > person that picks it up within the next 7 days in St. Louis, MO > > > > E-Mail direct if you want the collection. kb9vu@aol.com > > QUITE the Heathkit score for whomever can get out that way first! > I would love the H8's, but somehow I can't see myself driving out there from PA in the next day or so. :-( bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 20:10:31 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D Message-ID: Here is my latest major acquisition as of the Sunday before last: http://www.siconic.com/computers/Imlac This is an Imlac PDS-1D, a later model of the Imlac PDS-1 circa 1972. It's a 16-bit graphical workstation (pre-Alto!) I'm not sure how much memory this has but it contains two coreplanes, so I'm figuring either 8K or 16K. Unfortunately, it's been stored outside for about 7 years and has suffered some minor corrosion on the PCB solder traces and some light rusting on the ICs. I spent a few days cleaning it up and it looks like it's going to make it. This was a relatively easy retrieval. I started out from the San Francisco bay area about 6am Saturday morning, making it to Long Beach (southern California, LA area) by about 2:30pm, and got back home by 1am Sunday (taking my time along the way). The actual distance was about 800 miles. I was able to fit the main unit in my trunk and the display in my back seat. It normally would have come in a desk configuration, but since it was stored outside, the formica and pressboard table top was warped and unsalvageable, so I left it behind. I did get the legs, so I'll be able to easily reconstruct the tabletop. The cabinet of the computer was rusted around the outside. Not horribly but it will need to be refinished. The inside of the card cage was spared from any dirt and debris since it was closed pretty tightly. Some corrosion on the logic modules from moisture was still evident. On the other side of the rack, there were leaves stuffed up inside the core memory board section. I imagine some varmint made his nest there for a while. I managed to clean up the core memory boards and the power supply section so far. The core itself was fine, having been protected by a PCB board cover. The leads on the ICs are a bit rusted, but I imagine they will still be OK with some clean up. The solder traces showed some corrosion (oxidation?) from moisture but seem to be OK after having traced out a few with a meter. The CRT is obviously going to need replacing. It looks like I may be able to just remove the front glass panel and then chip off the intermediate glass (plastic?) layer that is all cracked to reveal a clean tube on the inside, but I don't know if this is just an optical illusion (and I don't know if this would be safe :) The tube has a Fairchild sticker on it. Apparently Fairchild made CRTs in the late 60s, early 70s. I wonder if I can just find a replacement? The nice thing about this one is that it came with the programmer's console. And if you'll look at the picture showing the front card cage with the logic modules, the long board in the lower right is a "Long Vector Option", hand-wired by the guy I got it from. It's basically a co-processor board for drawing the vectors on the display. It allowed the system to handle more vectors than the basic configuration. Apparently, if you had too much happening on the display the system would bog down considerably or crash. For comparison to the PDS-1, look here: http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/imlac/ (This happens to be Doug Salot's excellent web page on the PDS-1, which I now have in my collection...thanks, Doug! :) The display for the PDS-1D is very different from the PDS-1. It's much larger and has a detached keyboard. The computer itself is also very different. The card rack uses different connectors, and the memory is on the other side of the rack instead of plugged into the card cage along with the rest of the logic modules, as with the PDS-1. >From talking to the previous owner, I'd hoped I would be able to just bring it home and fire it up after some TLC with a Variac, but that ain't gonna happen. He never told me he'd stored it outside. Duh. But I think with a bit of work it can be made to function in time for VCF 5.0, in which I hope to include it in an exhibit of early networked video games. One cool aspect of this machine is that it has a diode ROM board that instructs the machine to boot off the serial port. The previous owner wrote some code for his Cromemco that would upload operating software into the Imlac. He also wrote an assembler on the Cromemco so that he could assemble programs and then upload them to the Imlac. Pretty cool. This will be my main restoration project for the time being. My first questions are: 1) What effect does moisture have on solder traces after such long exposure to the elements? Do I need to be worried about cold solder joints and things like that? The last time this thing was fired up was 6-7 years ago, according to the previous owner. 2) What is the chance that the power supply caps and transformers are bad, again, being that it was exposed to the elements for so long? How can I test the caps? I have schematics, so I imagine I could test the transformers knowing the voltages. 3) How can I easily remove the rust from the leads of the ICs? Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Apr 9 23:22:19 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> <3AD24796.92A3CE6B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AD28A7B.4D07CCB3@kcinter.net> Evening! We used to be a service center for Vendex. I'll look around the shop tomorrow and see what info and programs I have for it and let the list know. Bill Claussen elecdata1 Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello, > > I used to know some people that owned one. They loved it, and used it > up into the mid 90s. The mom really liked the gui, and sort of prided > herself in owning such an old pre-win95 computer that had a gui. I > guess I can agree with her on that part, but I thought the GUI was kind > of dorky :-) > > As far as surplus stores not keeping stuff together goes.... I can't > agree with you more. I am always finding stuff scattered at Goodwill. > If someone doesn't buy something in the first few days, people rip it > apart and scatter it! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Mark Gregory wrote: > > > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an 8088, > > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on the > > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged keyboard > > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available that > > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and heavy > > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, there > > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the system > > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, that > > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional info > > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why do > > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > > and the HD was missing. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark Gregory From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Apr 9 21:24:44 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3AD236AC.29652.19DAF507@localhost> > >> Our? > > > >Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the > >very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. > > I agree, America should quietly shoulder the burden of world peace, so that > citizens of third world countries are not disturbed. > I've kept my peace til now and I can only hope that the above was in jest but most of the world doesn't view the US and it's corporate dictated policies as especially benign. Unless you've forgotten recent history and gobble up the the spin doctors presentations on the controlled media, the US is the most rapacious, self-interested, morally bankrupt state, since Hitlers Germany. Sorry all you "good ol' boys" but if you are going to take part in an international forum, the bullshit you hear on CNN is no less tainted than that on Chinas outlets, and only distinguished by its slickness. Mike this reeks of "the white mans burden " of British colonial times and is hardly less onorous with the parallels to the thousands who died to further the profits of the likes of the East India Trading Company or its US counterpart US Fruit. And it still continues. Please spare me this BS on a list dedicated to old computers. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 20:22:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010410014158.WRHU29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > An original Sim What in tarnations is a Sim? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 20:54:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Dongle, invented by Don Gall? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >3c589d needs the 10b2/10bT dongle - or at least mine does :-) Tis true, according to the great reference source, Ebay, amazing what people will look up for a cable etc. that is going to sell for few bucks at best. BTW While talking to someone at the Santee swapmeet, he told me the origine of the word dongle is from the person who invented the short adapter cables, Don Gall. Fact or fiction? From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 21:45:54 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010410024554.23714.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > An original Sim > > What in tarnations is a Sim? My guess is a misspelt SYM. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 21:52:59 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD236AC.29652.19DAF507@localhost> Message-ID: <20010410024717.ZFJJ29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Voted for Harry Brown. Couldn't agree with you more. Sorry we didn't win, but we are growing. Rapacious. Rare to have the chance to use the word. Good on on you. Regards, Jeff In <3AD236AC.29652.19DAF507@localhost>, on 04/09/01 at 10:52 PM, "Lawrence Walker" said: >> >> Our? >> > >> >Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the >> >very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. >> >> I agree, America should quietly shoulder the burden of world peace, so that >> citizens of third world countries are not disturbed. >> > I've kept my peace til now and I can only hope that the above was in >jest but most of the world doesn't view the US and it's corporate >dictated policies as especially benign. Unless you've forgotten recent >history and gobble up the the spin doctors presentations on the >controlled media, the US is the most rapacious, self-interested, morally >bankrupt state, since Hitlers Germany. > Sorry all you "good ol' boys" but if you are going to take part in an >international forum, the bullshit you hear on CNN is no less tainted than >that on Chinas outlets, and only distinguished by its slickness. > Mike this reeks of "the white mans burden " of British colonial times >and is hardly less onorous with the parallels to the thousands who died >to further the profits of the likes of the East India Trading Company or >its US counterpart US Fruit. And it still continues. Please spare me >this BS on a list dedicated to old computers. >larry >Reply to: >lgwalker@look.ca -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 9 21:44:39 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) Message-ID: <013c01c0c169$abae7d40$5b779a8d@ajp166> From: Chris Kennedy > >You screwed up the attribution. This wasn't me -- I did the wing loading >calcs to refute it :-) > Sorry, too many layers of indirection. Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 21:54:23 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010410024920.ZHHQ29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Sim was a single board back in the days of Aim65, ELF, and others. Just another box. Often, things Sim were referred to as Kim/Sim because they used the same CPU and had little in the way of anything else. In that sense, they were compatible. regards, Jeff In , on 04/09/01 at 10:54 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >> An original Sim >What in tarnations is a Sim? >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Apr 9 22:06:28 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <001e01c0c16b$3df4f8e0$d1731fd1@default> I got one at a local Goodwill also with the manuals and the monitor ( it was $12 extra ) but the diskettes were missing. It works fine $20 for a total $32 plus tax for everything. If need something from the manual let me know and can send it to you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:08 PM Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an 8088, > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on the > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged keyboard > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available that > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and heavy > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, there > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the system > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, that > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional info > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why do > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > and the HD was missing. > > Thanks, > Mark Gregory > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 9 21:36:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <200104092348.QAA10318@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> from Jay West at "Apr 9, 1 12:54:19 pm" Message-ID: >> All I know at this point is that most of the systems are Commodore Pet, >> Commodore superPet, and TRS-80. I'd be suprised if there wasn't a bunch of >> apples there too, and lord knows what else. Location is Arizona. > >I'd be interested in the SuperPET(s). I might even be persuaded to drive out >there but shipping would be much better :-) (Location, San Bernardino, Calif.) The basic problem is that they have "maybe" $50 to $100 auction value of junk located in the boonies of Arizona, and hope to get a school roof for it, value maybe $20,000 or more. From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 22:05:08 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Sellam In-Reply-To: <3AD252DF.719877B2@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010410030517.ZWTQ29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Thanks for changing the topic for me. I never had the intention of forewarding that topic. Thanks again. Sellam knows where I'm at. I think and has the maturity to deal with it. He has already demonstrated it with good humour. Just my intention. Humor with a point. I think we all need a coach or a challenge once in awhile. He got his and that is all. I'm no patsey and we all know that now. I've shown my ass on this list and people, for some reason, still love me. Thank you all. I enjoy your company and would miss you if I were to be lost from the list. Your collective forgiveness is something I've enjoyed and something Sellam still and probably will always enjoy. Oh, and it was fun. That is the point is it not? Next time you take a screwdriver to a PDP, remember that this is supposed to be FUN! All for the greater good. Best and regards, Jeff In <3AD252DF.719877B2@internet1.net>, on 04/09/01 at 11:05 PM, Chad Fernandez said: >Jeff, >Stop that. Just becasue Sellam got a litte upset doesn't mean you have >to antagonize him.... even though it might be fun :-) >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA >THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >> >> I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 22:13:00 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <20010410024554.23714.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010410030756.ZZKN29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Mr. Dicks is right. My mistake. I couldn't afford Kilobaud back then so rely on memory today. And, based on your previous message, that memory is imperfect to say the least. Ask my wife C ummm C umm Chrissy. V/R Jeff In <20010410024554.23714.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com>, on 04/09/01 at 11:13 PM, Ethan Dicks said: >--- Sellam Ismail wrote: >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >> >> > An original Sim >> >> What in tarnations is a Sim? >My guess is a misspelt SYM. >-ethan >===== >Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com >The original webpage address is still going away. The >permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ >See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 9 22:20:01 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: system/36 parts for free In-Reply-To: <20010410024920.ZHHQ29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010410031402.FNE29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Well, free means for shipping, but the guts of the machine are going. I'm turning it into a wet bar. Lemme know, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 9 22:29:59 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D References: Message-ID: <018701c0c16e$85e95a80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Wow, thanks for the compilation: the images & such and the actual acquisition. I haven't seen a PDS control panel in 20 years. Yeah, but this is the PDS 1D, it only draws vectors going side to side, what you want is the PDS 2D Sorry. What we had most at school were PDS-?X?'es. They were a bit cheaper. Ribbon cable KB. No console. Still alot of fun to play tankwar on. John A. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 9 22:57:22 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: vt100 & graphics (emanuel stiebler) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408112133.01eb16b0@208.226.86.10> <3AD0B56A.7EF4580B@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <15058.33954.64595.944535@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 8, emanuel stiebler wrote: > In the beginning of the '80 I was sitting on a VT100 with an > additional/optional > "selenar graphics board" > > Anybody out here, ever heard of such beast or has one ? > > As far as I remember, it had an z80 on it, and was emulating an > Tektronix 4010 or something similar. Yes, I used to have one of those. I had a huge amount of fun with it. I ran it hooked up to my pdp11/34a. I have no idea what happened to it...sure wish I'd hung onto it. Now, though, I have two VT100s with the VT125 graphics option installed. They're neat! -Dave McGuire From dogbert at mindless.com Mon Apr 9 23:08:33 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware References: <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409205814.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3AD28741.7714FF25@mindless.com> Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that THETechnoid@home.com may have mentioned these words: > >MIght try www.atari.org. They have links to the common suppliers of > >obsolecent Atari gear. Including development boards and the like. > > > >Wish I could remember all of them, but: > > > >BravoSierra is one, B&C Computervisions is another, and there are a couple > >of others that escape my perforated memory. Acid is not a good thing for > >your long-term memory.... > > > >Regards, > > > >Jeff > > Those are good suggestions, but IMHO the atari dealers get kinda > expensive... the 44-pin slots were actually quite standard, and are > available from www.jameco.com & *prolly* (but don't quote me) from > www.bgmicro.com. Jameco also has the 44-pin edge proto boards, which might > be handy if you like to do homebrew electronics. Thanks. I appreciate the leads, but I think the trail has gone cold. Unfortunately, I've been using Jameco for months now (building my own homebrew LCD/6502 micro), so unless I'm totally blind they don't have the edge cards anymore. JDR Microdevices has the 44 pin socket, but not edge card. No luck with BG Micro either. Mouser sounds a little promising with this, but it still doesn't sound right?: 574-R644-3 Description: VECTOR RACK/CASE/CARD CAGE/GUIDE/MODULE 44POS WW EDGE CONN I may be stuck with paying a premium price somewhere like the atari site. :( On the bright side, I found vector electronic's webpage and found the product numbers, so maybe I'll fire up Google and use some brute-force searching. :) http://www.vectorelect.com/Products/Prototyping/Vectorbord/plugbord.htm And I never have trouble finding $50.00 worth of Jameco stuff I want to take home with me. Never a problem. :) > > > These guys carry a lot of older things, but they don't (usually) want an > arm & leg from you... > > Another good place to try is www.mouser.com - I'm not affiliated with them > other than a very satisfied customer... > > Jameco wants a $5.00 "processing fee" for orders under $50.00, so you might > want to browse the catalog for other stuff they carry... > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merberger > > (Oh, Jeff - I did get your email, but things have been crazy over the > winter - I have quaffed a few ales with your brother (and he likes my > homebrew... ;-), he only lives a few miles from me.) > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Apr 9 23:20:42 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff References: Message-ID: <019401c0c175$9b410d40$1ec7fec7@pcat> > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 KB9VU@aol.com wrote: > > > I have 3 H-89s, 2 H8s, an H19, H29, original Zenith 10 Meg HD with the > > on board 8" drive, several 8" dual drives, spare SS and DS 5" drives, > > several spare 5" HH and FH hard drives, controller boards, CPU and TLB > > boards, spare I/O and RAM boards, drives, chips, hardware. A ton of > > original documentation and software. All of the systems are in > > operating condition. Spare parts are used and NOS. Free to the first > > person that picks it up within the next 7 days in St. Louis, MO > > > > E-Mail direct if you want the collection. kb9vu@aol.com > > QUITE the Heathkit score for whomever can get out that way first! Yeah. It just kills me that I can't afford the plane ticket (and freight) to get it all home. Would you consider shipping the docs & software? *begs* g. From dogbert at mindless.com Mon Apr 9 23:23:08 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3AD28AAC.19168A57@mindless.com> Here's an accurate drawing of the whole board, including the keypad: http://www.ping.be/kim-1__6502/6502/usrman.html#B It isn't simply soldered to the board -- it's a "stand-alone" unit, and some of the legends like "PC" and "GO" would probably not be found on your garden-variety pocket calculator. Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] > > >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > [ snip ] > > >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one of > >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > > > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and disassemble > >it to clean the contacts? > > I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my > basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and I > don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the > next couple days if that'd help... > > Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... > > [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 22:26:59 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Atari 520ST up for grabs in Maryland Message-ID: Here's a boxed Atari 520ST with all the trimmings. Looking for a new home. Please reply to the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:31:54 -0400 From: Frederick Steffens Subject: Atari 520ST Hi: I have an Atari 520ST with software, a color monitor and original packing. Also included is manuals and other software, mostly games. I would like to give this computer to a good home, rather than trashing it. Let me know if you have an interest. Thanks, Fred Steffens --- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 9 23:41:35 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) (Chuck McManis) References: <105.17b246b.28022bed@aol.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408141459.0291e480@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <15058.36607.604317.453924@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hmm. I've never found computers tedious. I also don't run Windows. I think there's probably a connection there. :) And no...nobody *NEEDS* to use Windows. I love getting into that argument. "But I NEEEEEEED it!" My favorite response is usually something like "you mean you'd be unemployed and destitute if this one bad product from this one bad company didn't exist?" That really pisses some people off. Others have gone and installed decent OSs on their PeeCees that very day. :) -Dave McGuire On April 8, Chuck McManis wrote: > I don't recall exactly when it was, but I not too long ago I found myself > dealing with the "tediousness" of using a computer. To consider a computer > tedious was, for me, such a shock that I had to ponder the implications of > that. The result of that pondering was that for my tools, I needed them to > work correctly and they rarely were, and getting them fixed was tedious. > However I also realized that for the "PC" at least a lot of the wonder had > gone out of computers. I remember clearly the FORTRAN printout that > computed the impact point of a free falling object dropped from 5,000 feet > in a uniform gravity gradient and a perfect vacuum :-) I printed x & y > co-ordinates of the object for every tenth second and got 20 pages or so of > numbers. That was WONDERful. Writing a PL/I program to use overstrikes to > print multi-shaded histograms on a line printer attached to a 370 was > pretty fun to. > > Figuring out what my graphics program on Win98 wasn't seeing mouse events > was TEDIOUS. > > So much of my motivation is driven by the wonder of what the system can do > with what it has that I find VAXen and PDP-11s much more impressive than > 1.5Ghz Pentium IVs. Capturing the wonder is my secret ingredient to learning. > > --Chuck > > From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 22:33:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: <018701c0c16e$85e95a80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, John Allain wrote: > Wow, thanks for the compilation: the images & such and the actual > acquisition. I haven't seen a PDS control panel in 20 years. Thank you. The control panel is very nice :) > Yeah, but this is the PDS 1D, it only draws vectors > going side to side, what you want is the PDS 2D > Sorry. I still don't know much about Imlac, so I'm gullible. Was there really a PDS-2D? > What we had most at school were PDS-?X?'es. They were a bit cheaper. > Ribbon cable KB. No console. Still alot of fun to play tankwar on. Hmmm, the PDS-1 came with an integrated terminal (CRT and keyboard). I'm curious as to what other models Imlac made. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 9 22:34:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <3AD28AAC.19168A57@mindless.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > Here's an accurate drawing of the whole board, including the keypad: > > http://www.ping.be/kim-1__6502/6502/usrman.html#B > > It isn't simply soldered to the board -- it's a "stand-alone" unit, > and some of the legends like "PC" and "GO" would probably not > be found on your garden-variety pocket calculator. Sure, both those are just labels. The actual mechanism is still just a pocket calculator keypad (I think). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Apr 10 00:10:46 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: HP 9815 (was Re: HP 9000 520) In-Reply-To: Joe's message of "Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:00:04 -0500" References: <3.0.1.16.20010408111212.3c071a72@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010409150004.3e2f6ecc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <200104100510.f3A5AkX37921@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > The two expansion slots were optional on the early 9815 "A" models but > were standard on the later "S" model. There are several interfaces that can > go in those slots. Here's the list of the ones that I know of: One I didn't see on your list, don't know the part number of, and don't have, but have seen in the hands of another subscriber: a cable with a 9815 cartridge on each end, used to connect two 9815s together for tape duplication. -Frank McConnell From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 10 00:39:16 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409134030.02415100@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409223852.02598dd0@mail.zipcon.net> Did you politely ask them where you could get the drugs they were obviously taking, they must be good :) At 08:17 PM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >I wouldn't say they are looking for token donations...I've exchanged some >emails with them and they are looking for ebay like prices for the >SuperPets. They wanted $50 shipping for each unit (SuperPet, TRS-80, Apple >etc.) without regard to the weight/actual shipping costs. > >-Chandra > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:41 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! > > >At 12:54 PM 4/9/01 -0500, Jay West wrote: > >I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an old >school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other purposes, >and found what they describe as a large amount of old microcomputers in >storage there. They don't want them, and want to take offers for them. It >sounds like they will take a "token donation" for a system or systems or >maybe the whole lot. > >Sounds like this: > > >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:10:09 -0600 > >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >From: John Foust > >Subject: Rescue / Sale in AZ: PET, Tandy, Apple, PC > > > > > >This is somewhere in the Phoenix/Tucson/Flagstaff area. :-) > > > >- John > > > >----------------- > > > >Here is a fairly complete list of the old computer stuff that we have which >is available to the highest bid. > > > >We are a non-profit 501 (c)(3) educational institution, we have > >just obtained a old elementary school which was being used by > >the school district to store old things from every school, so > >there is a large variety of things. We dont know their condition > >exactly, or whether they work. Sold in as is condition and you > >pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - > >would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it > >out to whom ever would love it. > > > >**If you are in the USA your contribution would be tax-deductible! > > > >If you have questions or comments call us at: (520) 432-4200 > >or e-mail fnweird@earthlink.net . > > > >Thankx! Carmen & Bob Bryant > > > >APPLE : > >Apple IIc - (no Monitors; a white box with key board) [seven units] > >Apple 51/4 external Floppy drives Model Disk II [eight units] > >Apple (small) keybords [five] > >Apple Unidisk [one] > >Apple Numeric Key Pad IIe [one] > >CompuAdd Computer [one] > >Apple Monitor III [five] > >Apple II Plus (no monitor) [one] > >Apple Monitors [four] > >Apple Graphics tablets large 16" x 16" Model A2M0029 [three] > > > >COMMODORE > >Comm. PET Model 4016 [one] > >Comm. Single Floppy (5 1/4) Drive Model 1541 [two] > >Comm. 4023 Printers [eleven] > >Comm. 4022 Printer [two] > >Comm. (5 1/4) floppy Extern. Drive Model 2031LP [five] > >Comm. Super PET SP9000 (with monitor attached) [seven] > >Comm PET Model 4032 (with monitor) [five] > >Comm. CBM Model 8032 [two] > >Comm. CBM Dual Floppy Model 8050 [two] > >Comm. Dual Drive Floppy [one] > >Comm. Single Drive Floppy (5 1/4) Model 2031 [one] > >Comm. 64 Keyboard [four] > >Comm. Cassette Plug-in Datasette [three] > >Comm. Cassette C2N [one] > >Comm. Tractor Printer Model 4022 [one[ > > > >Other : > >Panasonic Printers KX-P1080i And KX - P1091 [one of each] > >IBM Transcriber Model 172 [four] > >Ventel Model 1200-1 [three] > >Sanyo Memo Scriber (with cassette built in) [four] > > > >Monitors: > >IBM Mon. Model 8513001 [one] > >Leading Edge Mon. Model DR-1240 [three] > >also Leading Edge Keyboard [one] > >CTX Color Monitor 14" Model CVP5468A [one] > >Amdek Video-300 Mon. [one] > >Citizen Mon. [one] > >Zenith Data Systems Mon. Model ZVM 121 [one] > > > >other keyboards: > >Zenith Data Systems [four] > >Wyse Key. [one] > >unknown brands [three] > > > >RADIO SHACK > >TRS-80 Model III 48 K RAM (Monitor built in, with cassettee hook up in >back) [seven] > >TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer 64 K (monitor built in and cassette plug in) >[seven] > > ** some of these have built in smoky glass filter attached to front > >TRS-80 64K Keyboard [ten] > > Mini Disk Drive [one] > > TRS-80 DMP 200 Printer [one] > > Video Display (1979) [one] > > DWP-210 Daisy Wheel Printer [one] > > > >Tandy 1000sx (Dual floppy, no mon.) [six] > > Not working/parts gone [two] > >Tandy 64 K Color Monitor [one] > >Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP 430 [one] > >Tandy Monitor VM-4 [one] > >Tandy 190 Keyboard [one] > > > >Other: > >Heyer Model 93 Thermal Processor [one] > >Espirit Computer by Hazeltine (PET look-alike) [one] > >Viasyn Dual 5 1/4 Disk Drive [one] > >BMC - 800 Model 20 (with monitor on stand) [two] > >Epson computer Model Equality I+ (has single floppy ) with keyboard >[one] > > > >Viasyn Computer from Hayward CA. CompuPro System 8/16 Serial#068899 >[one] > >Racal-Milgo / OMXIMODE 96 [one] > >IBM Type 4869 (made in Japan) 5 1/4 Floppy Drive [one] > >Data Frame 20/Super Mac Technology (120v,60 Hz) box > > with switch, male three prong plug; and two ports [one] > >Power supply [one] > >Texas Instruments Business System 300 Monitor [one] > >3M Thermo Fax The Secretary Copier/Transper. Maker [two] > >American Seating Masterboard for audio controls on large table w/two >tapes/reels [one] > >NCR Model 399 Console [one] > >Zenthen & Aagaard (Copenhagen Denmark) Abdick 588 Stencil Maker > >IBM Model 4226-320 Printer [one] > >IBM 4226 Printer Ribbons [one] > > > >ALSO- > >Old DITTO and Mimeograph Machines and parts including paste ink pads >[ten] > >Type writers - Royal [newer X one; very old X >five] > >IBM Personal Wheelwriter2 [two] > >IBM Quietwriter III Printer 5202 [one] > >BMC electric [two] > >IBM Selectric III [two] > >Maxwell Pro/Indust. Videocassette U-Matic Still Frame Reproduction >[twelve] > >Texas Instruments Computer (large & Heavy ) Serial # 0550001424 >[one] > >Wollensak triple tape cassette duplicator Model 2772 >[one] > >Sony U-matic Model VO-2600 [one] > >Tandy 1000 Personal Computer Keyboard [seven] > > > >BOOKS > >IBM Personal Computer Hardware Reference Library 3.0 BASIC > > (Hard bound ringed binder in fiberboard case, wrapped, like new >[twelve] > >IBM Personal Computer Guide To Operations with floppy [twelve] > >Tandy 1000sx Manual excellent condition [one] > >Apple IIc A Touch of Applesoft Basic [five] > >Apple Getting Started With Your Apple II GS [fifteen] > >Apple Color RGB Monitor Owners Manual (IIgs) [eight] > >Apple 3.5 Drive Owner Guide [three] > >Apple II GS Owner Reference [eight] > >Appel Image Writer II Owner Manual [one] > >Apple II GS System Drive Users Guide >[one] > >Apple II GS Owner Manual(in wrapper) From curt at atari-history.com Tue Apr 10 00:41:58 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: Atari 520ST up for grabs in Maryland References: Message-ID: <000901c0c180$f5df4a40$c2609040@atarihistory.com> Hi, Let the list know if anyone wants this, I have several of these units already, but if noone else wants it, then I'd rather pick it up then see it become more filler for the dump. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: Atari 520ST up for grabs in Maryland > > Here's a boxed Atari 520ST with all the trimmings. Looking for a new > home. Please reply to the original sender. > > Reply-to: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 20:31:54 -0400 > From: Frederick Steffens > Subject: Atari 520ST > > Hi: > > I have an Atari 520ST with software, a color monitor and original packing. > > Also included is manuals and other software, mostly games. > > I would like to give this computer to a good home, rather than trashing it. > > Let me know if you have an interest. > > Thanks, > Fred Steffens > > --- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 00:55:56 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: VCF 4.0 Pics References: Message-ID: <010701c0c182$e9a6b5e0$0b9fb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Stumbled by this Omaha-based site with good assortment of VCF 4.0 pics. Don't recall seeing it mentioned here before. Anyone know who took these? I don't recognize any of the names associated with "Omahug". "Dave Miller" seems like the most likely candidate though. http://www.omahug.org/vcf40/ -W From pbboy at mindspring.com Tue Apr 10 01:01:28 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed Message-ID: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> I picked up a SWTP central processing unit, model /09. What is this? It has a SWTP cpu card (MP-09B) with a 2 MHz MC68B09P, a Hazelwood card marked DM-64 and a Microworks card with an MC68B21P on it. The MicroWorks card has wires through the rear of the case. It also has 3 serial and 1 parallel cards. The Hazelwood card looks burned a bit on the back side of one transistor. The CPU card looks ok, but I don't want to power it up without first checking the power supply. What are the voltages for the power supply? What is the MicroWorks card? Does anyone have any docs or info for this, maybe a website? Thanks. Robert From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 00:27:52 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:03 2005 Subject: VCF 4.0 Pics In-Reply-To: <010701c0c182$e9a6b5e0$0b9fb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Stumbled by this Omaha-based site with good assortment > of VCF 4.0 pics. Don't recall seeing it mentioned here > before. Anyone know who took these? I don't recognize > any of the names associated with "Omahug". "Dave > Miller" seems like the most likely candidate though. > > http://www.omahug.org/vcf40/ Interesting...they have a picture of me (in the middle of some odd facial contortion :) holding up the Apple 1 that was auctioned off with the caption "First Prize for Best of Show" :) A nice set of pictures though. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Apr 10 01:49:23 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409134030.02415100@pc> <5.0.2.1.2.20010409223852.02598dd0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <000d01c0c18a$60cd78a0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Well it would be fun to have PETs...but at those prices... Blame it on ebay I guess...(I always do now when I see ridiculous prices for older computers...) Or it's the case of someone not knowing what this kinda stuff is worth...like seeing some Mac LCs at a garage sale for $300 last summer for me...probably more ebay's fault... I wont be paying those prices for these systems - ever...sorry... > > >exactly, or whether they work. Sold in as is condition and you > > >pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - > > >would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it > > >out to whom ever would love it. I guess the school children will be writing on wet desks and they will be wearing raincoats into class next spring because of ebay...DAMN YOU EBAY! Claude Canuk Computer Collector (only me active in Quebec from what I can see...) http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoff Reed To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:39 AM Subject: RE: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! > Did you politely ask them where you could get the drugs they were obviously > taking, they must be good :) > > At 08:17 PM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >I wouldn't say they are looking for token donations...I've exchanged some > >emails with them and they are looking for ebay like prices for the > >SuperPets. They wanted $50 shipping for each unit (SuperPet, TRS-80, Apple > >etc.) without regard to the weight/actual shipping costs. > > > >-Chandra > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:41 PM > >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Re: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! > > > > > >At 12:54 PM 4/9/01 -0500, Jay West wrote: > > >I was contacted by a person in charge of liquidating the assets of an old > >school. They recently purchesed an old school building for other purposes, > >and found what they describe as a large amount of old microcomputers in > >storage there. They don't want them, and want to take offers for them. It > >sounds like they will take a "token donation" for a system or systems or > >maybe the whole lot. > > > >Sounds like this: > > > > >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:10:09 -0600 > > >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > >From: John Foust > > >Subject: Rescue / Sale in AZ: PET, Tandy, Apple, PC > > > > > > > > >This is somewhere in the Phoenix/Tucson/Flagstaff area. :-) > > > > > >- John > > > > > >----------------- > > > > > >Here is a fairly complete list of the old computer stuff that we have which > >is available to the highest bid. > > > > > >We are a non-profit 501 (c)(3) educational institution, we have > > >just obtained a old elementary school which was being used by > > >the school district to store old things from every school, so > > >there is a large variety of things. We dont know their condition > > >exactly, or whether they work. Sold in as is condition and you > > >pay the shipping (or come get them). We really need a roof - > > >would trade the whole lot to a roofer for a roof, or piece it > > >out to whom ever would love it. > > > > > >**If you are in the USA your contribution would be tax-deductible! > > > > > >If you have questions or comments call us at: (520) 432-4200 > > >or e-mail fnweird@earthlink.net . > > > > > >Thankx! Carmen & Bob Bryant > > > > > >APPLE : > > >Apple IIc - (no Monitors; a white box with key board) [seven units] > > >Apple 51/4 external Floppy drives Model Disk II [eight units] > > >Apple (small) keybords [five] > > >Apple Unidisk [one] > > >Apple Numeric Key Pad IIe [one] > > >CompuAdd Computer [one] > > >Apple Monitor III [five] > > >Apple II Plus (no monitor) [one] > > >Apple Monitors [four] > > >Apple Graphics tablets large 16" x 16" Model A2M0029 [three] > > > > > >COMMODORE > > >Comm. PET Model 4016 [one] > > >Comm. Single Floppy (5 1/4) Drive Model 1541 [two] > > >Comm. 4023 Printers [eleven] > > >Comm. 4022 Printer [two] > > >Comm. (5 1/4) floppy Extern. Drive Model 2031LP [five] > > >Comm. Super PET SP9000 (with monitor attached) [seven] > > >Comm PET Model 4032 (with monitor) [five] > > >Comm. CBM Model 8032 [two] > > >Comm. CBM Dual Floppy Model 8050 [two] > > >Comm. Dual Drive Floppy [one] > > >Comm. Single Drive Floppy (5 1/4) Model 2031 [one] > > >Comm. 64 Keyboard [four] > > >Comm. Cassette Plug-in Datasette [three] > > >Comm. Cassette C2N [one] > > >Comm. Tractor Printer Model 4022 [one[ > > > > > >Other : > > >Panasonic Printers KX-P1080i And KX - P1091 [one of each] > > >IBM Transcriber Model 172 [four] > > >Ventel Model 1200-1 [three] > > >Sanyo Memo Scriber (with cassette built in) [four] > > > > > >Monitors: > > >IBM Mon. Model 8513001 [one] > > >Leading Edge Mon. Model DR-1240 [three] > > >also Leading Edge Keyboard [one] > > >CTX Color Monitor 14" Model CVP5468A [one] > > >Amdek Video-300 Mon. [one] > > >Citizen Mon. [one] > > >Zenith Data Systems Mon. Model ZVM 121 [one] > > > > > >other keyboards: > > >Zenith Data Systems [four] > > >Wyse Key. [one] > > >unknown brands [three] > > > > > >RADIO SHACK > > >TRS-80 Model III 48 K RAM (Monitor built in, with cassettee hook up in > >back) [seven] > > >TRS-80 Model 4 Microcomputer 64 K (monitor built in and cassette plug in) > >[seven] > > > ** some of these have built in smoky glass filter attached to front > > >TRS-80 64K Keyboard [ten] > > > Mini Disk Drive [one] > > > TRS-80 DMP 200 Printer [one] > > > Video Display (1979) [one] > > > DWP-210 Daisy Wheel Printer [one] > > > > > >Tandy 1000sx (Dual floppy, no mon.) [six] > > > Not working/parts gone [two] > > >Tandy 64 K Color Monitor [one] > > >Tandy Dot Matrix Printer DMP 430 [one] > > >Tandy Monitor VM-4 [one] > > >Tandy 190 Keyboard [one] > > > > > >Other: > > >Heyer Model 93 Thermal Processor [one] > > >Espirit Computer by Hazeltine (PET look-alike) [one] > > >Viasyn Dual 5 1/4 Disk Drive [one] > > >BMC - 800 Model 20 (with monitor on stand) [two] > > >Epson computer Model Equality I+ (has single floppy ) with keyboard > >[one] > > > > > >Viasyn Computer from Hayward CA. CompuPro System 8/16 Serial#068899 > >[one] > > >Racal-Milgo / OMXIMODE 96 [one] > > >IBM Type 4869 (made in Japan) 5 1/4 Floppy Drive [one] > > >Data Frame 20/Super Mac Technology (120v,60 Hz) box > > > with switch, male three prong plug; and two ports [one] > > >Power supply [one] > > >Texas Instruments Business System 300 Monitor [one] > > >3M Thermo Fax The Secretary Copier/Transper. Maker [two] > > >American Seating Masterboard for audio controls on large table w/two > >tapes/reels [one] > > >NCR Model 399 Console [one] > > >Zenthen & Aagaard (Copenhagen Denmark) Abdick 588 Stencil Maker > > >IBM Model 4226-320 Printer [one] > > >IBM 4226 Printer Ribbons [one] > > > > > >ALSO- > > >Old DITTO and Mimeograph Machines and parts including paste ink pads > >[ten] > > >Type writers - Royal [newer X one; very old X > >five] > > >IBM Personal Wheelwriter2 [two] > > >IBM Quietwriter III Printer 5202 [one] > > >BMC electric [two] > > >IBM Selectric III [two] > > >Maxwell Pro/Indust. Videocassette U-Matic Still Frame Reproduction > >[twelve] > > >Texas Instruments Computer (large & Heavy ) Serial # 0550001424 > >[one] > > >Wollensak triple tape cassette duplicator Model 2772 > >[one] > > >Sony U-matic Model VO-2600 [one] > > >Tandy 1000 Personal Computer Keyboard [seven] > > > > > >BOOKS > > >IBM Personal Computer Hardware Reference Library 3.0 BASIC > > > (Hard bound ringed binder in fiberboard case, wrapped, like new > >[twelve] > > >IBM Personal Computer Guide To Operations with floppy [twelve] > > >Tandy 1000sx Manual excellent condition [one] > > >Apple IIc A Touch of Applesoft Basic [five] > > >Apple Getting Started With Your Apple II GS [fifteen] > > >Apple Color RGB Monitor Owners Manual (IIgs) [eight] > > >Apple 3.5 Drive Owner Guide [three] > > >Apple II GS Owner Reference [eight] > > >Appel Image Writer II Owner Manual [one] > > >Apple II GS System Drive Users Guide > >[one] > > >Apple II GS Owner Manual(in wrapper) > From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 00:48:41 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Now taking exhibit entries for VCF East!!! Message-ID: I think I am about to announce that the first VCF East will be held at the Centrum Centre in Worcester, Massachusetts. The tentative dates are June 23-24. With that in mind, I would like to start taking exhibit entries. If you would like to exhibit at the VCF East then please go to the following page and fill in the form: http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/exhibit.php3 First, Second and Third place awards will be given based on attendee votes. $50 will be given to the First Place exhibit. As an enticement, exhibitors get free admission to the event and a free t-shirt. Please remember that this is COMPLETELY PRELIMINARY. The dates and the venue are by no means cast in stone at this point. I just want to start getting exhibitors signed up because the timeframe is so tight. I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome suggestions for speakers at VCF East. If you have suggestions, please send them to . I will know in the next day or so if Centrum Centre will indeed be the place. Within a few days after that the VCF East area of the VCF website will begin to carry information about speakers, exhibiting, vendors, admission rates, etc. The VCF East message board will open up shortly as well. There will be a link to the message board on the VCF East main page once things get rolling. Stay tuned!!! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 02:07:30 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 Message-ID: I've gotten some griping about my selection for the location of the first VCF East. No doubt, a good majority of folks will be quite happy with the selection. This is no accident. The site was chosen based on the demographics I collected. Most of the attendees will be coming from Massachusetts and surrounding areas. As with any sensible business decision, it was based on what will hopefully bring as many attendees to the event, which in turn means I will be able to recoup expenses and will therefore want to continue to do Festivals on the east coast. I received over 150 responses to the VCF East survey. Here is a summary of the results: This chart shows the number of responses received from each state, sorted by number of attendees in descending order. State Count ----- ----- MA 27 NY 15 PA 12 NH 8 MD 7 OH 5 NJ 4 FL 4 CT 3 VT 3 GA 3 RI 2 VA 2 NC 2 IN 2 IL 2 MN 2 ME 1 WV 1 MI 1 WI 1 IA 1 MO 1 TX 1 - Nearly 25% of potential attendees will be coming from MA alone - 40% of potential attendees will be coming from the New England area - If you include NY, PA and NJ with New England, nearly 70% will be coming from this combined northeast region There was also a strong desire to keep the event close to the Rhodes Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhodes Island so that tours to those facilities could be organized. Providence is only about 45 minutes from Worcester. There are also several other museums that I hope to get involved with the event, including the MIT and Harvard museums and the Computer Museum in Boston. Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the potential attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should not be a major ordeal for most folks. So there you have it, the reasoning behind the selection of the location for VCF East 1.0. I know it won't please everyone, but the unhappy folks need to realize it has to be held where it makes the most sense. I really look forward to VCF East, and I hope you easterly folks do too :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 10 03:28:31 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: 27C020's :) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410012523.03114a10@mail.zipcon.net> YAY!!!!! I found a local wholesaler that offered to sample me out 2 of the chips I need :) I will definately be buying repair componants for systems from them from now on :) I LOVE a company that goes out of their way to provide customer service :) I also found a source for 11 of them in a tube for $12.00 plus shipping, he ahs 7 tubes :) i think I'll be getting a few of these since sparc 2's, ipc's ipx's and Sparc 10's all use those for their ROMs... From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 10 02:14:47 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville In-Reply-To: <0c1801c0be3e$50124bc0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >>> 3Com EtherLink 10bt, 3C589D > >> 3com may have them at a reasonable price... > >Completely reasonable. I just had a pleasant buying experience getting >cables for some 3com PCM 10base here (reassemble to 1-line URL): > > >Price: $6/ea. Actually 3Com isn't looking like much help, ie do we sell them "now", otherwise never heard of it. Link above is for the 6 foot RJ45 patch cable, not the dongle. ;( My cheap genes are really kicking in though, so I am going to give this a few swapmeets to be found in before even ebay prices appeal to me. Last time a guy had 10/100 cards with integrated jacks for $25, so this has to be kept very cheap for any sanity to it. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 02:25:12 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Looking for Les Solomon Message-ID: Does anyone have any contact information for Les Solomon of Popular Electronics fame? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 10 03:43:18 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed In-Reply-To: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410013252.03102770@mail.zipcon.net> http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/helpline/a199810.html that page amy have some info or at least some email addresses you can ask if they ahve any info for it :) http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/20000510_Motorola_Intel_Wars this may have some useful email addresses in it also. and finally BINGO! a website dedicated to the SWTP systems. http://www.swtpc.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 10 03:46:56 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409223852.02598dd0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010409134030.02415100@pc> Message-ID: >Did you politely ask them where you could get the drugs they were obviously >taking, they must be good :) Its really very sad, maybe the worst of collecting. People who don't have much if any clue about computers, end up with a major pile of semivaluable old computers and think they can now retire on the proceeds because some vaguely similar item once sold on ebay, or somebody told them "that stuff sells for a bundle on the internet". When I run into it, the experience is so stressfull, because its a lose/lose situation. The only thing worse is the "I want $1000, or it all goes in the dumpster" guys. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Apr 10 04:27:52 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Slabs, kids, shipping, cdtv. Message-ID: <01Apr10.105058bst.46092@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 06:39:56 -0400 > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request > > I've got a CDTV myself, but it's CD-ROM doesn't work. > Otherwise it > works fine booted from a floppy, acting like an A500. I've got > keyboard, wireless mouse, remote and a black Roctek floppy > drive. What > does your keyboard look like? Mine is black and looks > identical to the > A3000/A4000 keyboard except for the connector but it doesn't > have 'CDTV' > below the Amiga logo in the upper right corner and it almost > looks like > it was spray painted black. The cord and connector don't look like a > homebrew job though. My keyboard DOES say 'CDTV' but doesn't have the amiga logo (I don't think) and it looks identical to the keyboard for the Amiga 1500 its sitting on top of, apart from being black and having a mini-din connector. There's a thought - the wired mouse connector looks identical to the Apple ADB port......anyone know if I could use a 2-button Kensington Mac mouse? Got one floating around somewhere....heh..... > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:37:24 -0400 > From: Curt Vendel > Subject: Re: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request > > Hi Adrian, > > Sure, I'd be happy to ship one, I'd highly recommend > shipping by boat, > no air as it'll cost into the hundreds. Do you want a monitor? (its > actually a necessity since the keyboard/mouse plug into the > monitor and the > monitor cable plugs into the slab and also takes its power > from the slab.) > > Let me know and I have no problems lugged down two boxes (1 cpu, 1 > monitor) to the post office for you. Yes please; slab/monitor/kbd/rodent and I agree about the boat shipping - I haven't got any spare arms and legs to pay for airmail :) Actually, you could probably ship it to my gf's sister in Providence, RI 'cos she's coming over here next month and might be able to bring it with her since her bf's a pilot! > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:50:43 +0100 (BST) > From: "M.Buckett" > Subject: Re: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request > > Hi, > If your prepared to ship to the UK I would be very interested > in getting a > slab, monitor, keyboard and bits if there are still some going. > How much do expect shipping by boat to the UK will be? and > how long will it take? 4-6 weeks and probably round the $30-$50 mark I'd guess...... > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:34:10 -0500 > From: "McFadden, Mike" > Subject: Re: just outta curiosity > > Being a kid is a state of mind. I know a few 17 year old > adults and a few 40 year old kids. I'm a (nearly) 34 year old kid :) > I consider myself a kid because I sit on the floor when I take apart > computers, I stand on my head in containers/dumpsters pulling > out computers, > I occasionally look like a dust bunny/dirt devil after > crawling around a warehouse. Check! > My kids think I'm a kid or crazy because I talk > to the computers when I'm taking them apart. Check! > Kids also get excited when they get new toys, and that's me > when I've found a new computer. I don't get excited per se since I haven't been excited about anything for 10 years or so, hence the Prozac I'm on now and the past tendency to want to jump off tall buildings (over that now, fortunately :) but I DO get a sense of satisfaction that it's another machine that's been saved that I'll eventually get time to play with. > Maybe I'll go back to school when my kids are in college and > teach kids. > Actually my goal is to be able to work/play on interesting projects. Check! My daughter's school has expressed an interest in bringing the kids round to see the museum when its in some sort of order since they're all PeeCee based apart from a couple of Beebs and the odd Mac. She thinks its great that I've got a couple of Colour Classics now since that's what she uses at school! Right. Back on me head :) -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum) 0/0 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 04:32:20 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed In-Reply-To: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> References: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Robert, I'll check my SWTPc docs and see what I have for the PSU. In your box, are the two buses parallel to each other, with a long card bridging them near the PSU? I know someone with quite a bit of SWTPc stuff and could probably get info from him if I don't have it in mine. Jeff >I picked up a SWTP central processing unit, model /09. What is this? It has a >SWTP cpu card (MP-09B) with a 2 MHz MC68B09P, a Hazelwood card >marked DM-64 and >a Microworks card with an MC68B21P on it. The MicroWorks card has >wires through >the rear of the case. It also has 3 serial and 1 parallel cards. >The Hazelwood >card looks burned a bit on the back side of one transistor. The CPU >card looks >ok, but I don't want to power it up without first checking the power supply. >What are the voltages for the power supply? What is the MicroWorks >card? Does >anyone have any docs or info for this, maybe a website? Thanks. > >Robert -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Tue Apr 10 05:17:34 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Dongle, invented by Don Gall? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:54:50 -0700 Mike Ford wrote: > BTW While talking to someone at the Santee swapmeet, he told me the origine > of the word dongle is from the person who invented the short adapter > cables, Don Gall. Fact or fiction? Fiction. Advertising, in fact. I remember an advert for a certain brand of dongle in .EXE magazine in the 1980s, where this myth was presented. "Don Gall" was a programmer whose work was ripped-off and who as inspired to invent hardware copy-protection and (according to the ad) name it after himself. If I ever see it again, I'll post the full info. And a nit-pick: to me, "dongle" is a word describing a copy-protection device and "dangler" is a word for the short, easily-lost cable that one often finds adapting a PCMCIA card to a full-size connector. I also use "dangler" to refer to the thing on the back of a Sun Sparc 20 that adapts the non-standard AUI/audio connector to a proper AUI and some jack sockets. Equally, it could be the thing that breaks out the Sun's dual serial ports into two 25-pin "D" connectors. Or the thing that connects an IPX's audio port micro-DIN to two jack sockets. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 06:21:52 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Now taking exhibit entries for VCF East!!! In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Apr 9, 2001 10:48:41 pm" Message-ID: <200104101121.f3ABLrX01725@bg-tc-ppp713.monmouth.com> > > I think I am about to announce that the first VCF East will be held at the > Centrum Centre in Worcester, Massachusetts. The tentative dates are June > 23-24. > Interesting. Usenix is holding a convention in Boston at about the same time (June 23-30, I think). Perhaps I can make both for a while. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 06:29:12 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online In-Reply-To: <200104092117.OAA03161@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 9, 2001 02:17:16 pm" Message-ID: <200104101129.f3ABTCA02028@bg-tc-ppp713.monmouth.com> > Chris Kennedy wrote: > > > > Yesterday's post brought four CDs filled with TIFFs of PDP-11 > > (and related) prints. They're available at: > > > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp > > Wow!!! Does anyone know of software to read these on UNIX or easily convert > them to PDF files? > > Zane xv on X Unix will handle tiff files, I believe. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From M.Tekeste at Bradford.ac.uk Tue Apr 10 05:53:41 2001 From: M.Tekeste at Bradford.ac.uk (Mekonnen Tekeste) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Can Any one help me please? i am trying to interface a bar code reader to PCI Bus via a 82C51 (UART), and i wrote a code to support my hardware design but the software it seem wrong. Here is the code: #include #include #include /* Type Definitions */ typedef unsigned char UBYTE; /* Old habbit... */ /* Serial Port Definitions */ #define STATUS 0x308 /* Status Base Address */ #define CONTROL 0x300 /* Control Base Address */ #define TXREG 0x30C /* Transmit Base Address */ #define RXREG 0x304 /* Receive Base Address */ #define TRUE 1 /* Function Prototypes */ void InitUSART(void); /* Initialize USART */ void TxData(UBYTE); /* Transmit Data */ UBYTE RxData(void); /* Receive Data */ /* InitUSART() - Initialize USART to 153600, 8 Data Bits, No Parity, 1 Stop Bit */ void InitUSART(void) { outp(CONTROL, 0x40); // Reset UART outp(CONTROL, 0x4E); // Stop, no parity, 8-bit, %16 baud outp(CONTROL, 0x05); // UART now ready } /* TxData() - Send Data to Serial Port Entry: data = Data to transmit */ void TxData(UBYTE data) { UBYTE x; /* Check for Tx Buffer Empty */ do { x = inp(STATUS); x &= 0x01; } while(x == 0); outp(TXREG, data); /* Send Data */ } /* RxData() - Receive Data from the Serial Port Exit: data = Rx Data byte */ UBYTE RxData(void) { UBYTE x; UBYTE data = 0; while(TRUE) /* Check for Rx Data */ { x = inp(STATUS); x &= 0x02; if(x == 0x02) { data = inp(RXREG); /* Get Data */ break; } /* Optional. Aborts if keypress */ if(kbhit()) /* Abort if Keypress */ { getch(); printf("\n"); break; } } return(data); } void main(void) { InitUSART(); while(TRUE) putch(RxData()); } From at258 at osfn.org Tue Apr 10 06:59:44 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: just outta curiosity In-Reply-To: <200104091545.IAA07394@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: I like to think that any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > "Any sufficeintly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" > > > > I suffix this with: "If you don't look under the hood". > > I'm quite fond of the corellary. > > "Any technology that can be distinguished from magic is insufficiently > advanced." > > Eric > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Apr 10 04:31:17 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:43:32 CDT." <3.0.1.16.20010409154332.253f4a2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <200104100931.KAA00272@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Joe said: > At 07:40 AM 4/9/01 -0700, you wrote: > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > >> > Our people need our support now. Later is never in this game. > >> > >> Our? > > > >Hmmm, good point. This is an international mailing list. I'll bet the > >very intrusion of this discussion offends a good many people. > > OT as hell but still it would be interesting to hear what some of the > non-US members think of it. > I'm not offended in the leats! I think it's all very interesting even if it is OT. Electronic spying has been going on since radio was invented. As for other countries, I know our RAF planes regularly _very_ closely escort Russian planes over the North Atlantic etc. I would have thought the need for these flights would have declined since there are so many satellites up there doing the same job, but I suppose they also need to monitor signals such as those in the bands that are absorbed by water vapour and CO2 which are increasingly used for secure short range comms. Also you want to trigger their radar systems and monitor them. Anyway it never hurts to show the flag! As for the radome, it probably contained an ordinary radar antenna the details of which the Chinese could have got from "Janes Avionics" but there's no substitute for getting your hands on the hardware... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Tue Apr 10 07:54:40 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <019401c0c175$9b410d40$1ec7fec7@pcat> References: <019401c0c175$9b410d40$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: I saved an old h8 from the garbage truck a while back..no docs or s/w (or addnl h/w) to help me make it work...I'd love another H8 and any docs/sw/hw that works with h8's........ Any possibility of shipping to the chicago area? -Bob > > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 KB9VU@aol.com wrote: > > > > > I have 3 H-89s, 2 H8s, an H19, H29, original Zenith 10 Meg HD with the > > > on board 8" drive, several 8" dual drives, spare SS and DS 5" drives, > > > several spare 5" HH and FH hard drives, controller boards, CPU and TLB > > > boards, spare I/O and RAM boards, drives, chips, hardware. A ton of > > > original documentation and software. All of the systems are in > > > operating condition. Spare parts are used and NOS. Free to the first > > > person that picks it up within the next 7 days in St. Louis, MO > > > > > > E-Mail direct if you want the collection. kb9vu@aol.com > > > > QUITE the Heathkit score for whomever can get out that way first! > >Yeah. It just kills me that I can't afford the plane ticket (and freight) >to get it all home. Would you consider shipping the docs & software? >*begs* > >g. bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Tue Apr 10 07:57:43 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff References: Message-ID: <31FCC90B.22A358D0.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Mike, You don't happen to have HDOS 3 for the H-89's, do you? Would like to aquire a copy, if you have one. Thanks. Bob Mason classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > > I have 3 H-89s, 2 H8s, an H19, H29, original Zenith 10 Meg HD with the on > board 8" drive, several 8" dual drives, spare SS and DS 5" drives, several > spare 5" HH and FH hard drives, controller boards, CPU and TLB boards, spare > I/O and RAM boards, drives, chips, hardware. ?A ton of original documentation > and software. ?All of the systems are in operating condition. ?Spare parts > are used and NOS. ?Free to the first person that picks it up within the next > 7 days in St. Louis, MO > > E-Mail direct if you want the collection. ?kb9vu@aol.com > > After 7 days it goes to the dump. ?We are moving and it just can't be moved > with us this time. > > Thanks. ?Mike > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, '98, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From jss at ou.edu Tue Apr 10 08:33:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: References: <019401c0c175$9b410d40$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: <986909595.3ad30b9c02f34@email.ou.edu> If no one else has made arrangements, I will be picking this stuff up. I live in Norman, OK, about a long day's drive from Saint Louis. I have sent him an e-mail about it, but he hasn't got back to me. Once (and If) I get it all, I would love to consider redistributing some or most of it to interested parties on the list, whether by asking a small (not eBay) price or by trading for something. I'm not ready to ask for who wants what yet; I will send an e-mail about it to the list when and if I am able to score the equipment. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 10 08:44:57 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Apr 9, 1 07:36:21 pm" Message-ID: <200104101344.GAA12124@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >> I'd be interested in the SuperPET(s). I might even be persuaded to drive out >> there but shipping would be much better :-) (Location, San Bernardino, >> Calif.) > The basic problem is that they have "maybe" $50 to $100 auction value of > junk located in the boonies of Arizona, and hope to get a school roof for > it, value maybe $20,000 or more. In that case, I can see I would be sized up as gold mine material. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Happiness is having a scratch for every itch. -- Ogden Nash ---------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 10 09:08:01 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: OS-65U and/or OS-65D boot disks? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410090654.02f4b2a0@pc> Someone is looking for these boot disks for emulator use. Can someone here help him? See below. - John : Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:37:03 -0400 From: Chris Ott Organization: Acclamation Systems Since I noticed you'll be downloading the Ohio Scientific manuals next, I'm reminded of a question I wanted to ask. You wouldn't happen to know if anyone out there has a disk image of OS-65U and/or OS-65D, would you? I'd like to try to run them on my C4P emulator. I actually have my own copies, but since I don't have a computer that'll read them, I don't think I have any other options. Chris From emu at ecubics.com Tue Apr 10 09:20:30 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408112133.01eb16b0@208.226.86.10> <3AD0B56A.7EF4580B@ecubics.com> <15058.33954.64595.944535@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD316AE.FB31E2F2@ecubics.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > > Now, though, I have two VT100s with the VT125 graphics option > installed. They're neat! Was there really an option, or is it just aother mainboard ? cheers, emanuel P.S. You need both of them ? ;-) From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Apr 10 09:33:46 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available! In-Reply-To: <000d01c0c18a$60cd78a0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <20010410143346.26195.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Claude.W" wrote: > Well it would be fun to have PETs...but at those prices... No kidding. I have enough toys, I guess, that I can afford to be choosy. If I had wanted one for years and years and never been able to get one, maybe I'd feel differently, but in this case... > Blame it on ebay I guess...(I always do now when I see ridiculous prices for > older computers...) I suppose it's great if you are selling. > Or it's the case of someone not knowing what this kinda stuff is > worth...like seeing some Mac LCs at a garage sale for $300 last summer for > me...probably more ebay's fault... Woof! I just got an LC (and an LC III) for $5, and the only reason I picked it up was the Apple II card inside (in the PDS slot). They can "need a roof" all they want, but they are going to have to look elsewhere for the money. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 10 09:33:43 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: HP 9815 (was Re: HP 9000 520) In-Reply-To: <200104100510.f3A5AkX37921@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <3.0.1.16.20010408111212.3c071a72@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010409150004.3e2f6ecc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010410093343.094f9150@mailhost.intellistar.net> Frank, That's interesting! I've never heard of that one before. If you remember who had it can you ask them to contact me and give me the details (part number, etc)? I'll add it to my list. Joe At 10:10 PM 4/9/01 -0700, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> The two expansion slots were optional on the early 9815 "A" models but >> were standard on the later "S" model. There are several interfaces that can >> go in those slots. Here's the list of the ones that I know of: > >One I didn't see on your list, don't know the part number of, >and don't have, but have seen in the hands of another subscriber: >a cable with a 9815 cartridge on each end, used to connect two >9815s together for tape duplication. > >-Frank McConnell > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 10 09:54:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <20010409201504.JLWS29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchb ox> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010410095412.325f3126@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:19 PM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >There is some disagreement about jettisoning the radome. Not sure what >made it fall off, but it is only a fiberglass bubble over a radar >transceiver. Not terribly sturdy because it has to be transparent to >radar waves. It is only there to protect the antennae and for aerodynamic >purposes. > >I bet that is one of the only senders on the plane. Of course it is. Did you happen to notice that big dish on the bottom of the fuselage? Guess what's in it? Also take a look at the long dome on top of the fuselage. I'd be willing to bet that it contains a fixed antenna for a side looking RADAR. FWIW the RADAR antenna that was in the forward radome probably contained an antenna for a STANDARD weather and naviagation RADAR. The system certainly contains nothing that would have to be jettisisioned. The rest of it are >antennae for receiving electronic intelligence such as radar frequencies, >radio traffic, microwave traffic, and the like. > >In , on >04/09/01 > at 04:19 PM, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: > >>On Sun, 8 Apr 2001, Chris Kennedy wrote: >>> - The radome is missing. I'm at a loss to explain how the radome >>> got ripped off the aircraft by contact on the wing -- especially >>> given that the fuselage forward of the wing root doesn't appear >>> damaged. Most likely it collided with the vertical stablizer (ie "rudder") when the fighter tried to "bump" the EP-3 by passing underneath it at high speed. The debris probably did the damage to the propellors and other external antenna. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 10 10:17:54 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010410101754.3187eefe@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:29 PM 4/9/01 -0600, clint wrote: > > >> > >China's definition of the boundary of their nation isn't the same >as ours (in the US). IIRC, they claim 200 miles of ocean, and we >claim 50 miles of ocean. I may be wrong on the numbers, but the >idea is correct. > >Put the shoe on the other foot... If China was flying a plane with >the sole purpose of intercept our communications traffic within OUR >territorial waters, you can be certain a pair of US fighters would >force them out, or crash them, or probably even shoot them down. BULLSHIT! The Cubans regularly fly along and even into our borders. The North Koreans do the same in Korea. The East Germans did the same in Europe. The Russians did the same in the North Atlantic, Bearing Sea and other places. And there are a good number of other examples that I could name. We routinely intercept and fly along with them but to my knowledge we NEVER crashed into one mush less shot one down. Another good example are the antenna laiden "fishing boats" from Russia and other coutries that regularly patrol just off our shores. When have we ever crashed into or shot at one? > >Why do we, as Americans, feel we can do whatever we want, whenever >we want? We didn't learn our lesson when the U2 was shot down over >Russia? We didn't learn our lesson in the Bay of Pigs fiasco? This isn't the same thing at all. The EP-3 was over international water. Even if the chinese claim a 200 mile territorial limit, the fact remains that the EP_3 was not over any of their land mass. That makes this very different from the Bay or Pigs or U-2 incidents. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 10 10:30:45 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Way OT (was RE: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays.) In-Reply-To: <200104100036.f3A0arZ09422@civic.hal.com> References: <004501c0c14a$052a41d0$5b779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010410103045.3f8f770c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:36 PM 4/9/01 -0700, Dwight wrote: > >Hi Allison > The age of the plane has little to do with what >was on board. Looking at the picture of the plane, >it at least had a phase array antenna on it. The electronics >used on those planes simply plugs into bays. This means >that any level of gear could have been on the plane. Absolutely correct. > They landed about 20 minutes after the hit. They, like >any similar operations, would have a destruct list. Dwight, I hope you're right. But I spent three years on a survilence aircraft and I never saw or heard of a destruct list. SOME of the manuals did have destruct instructions that went something like "Prevent from falling into enemy hands by destruction by means of smashing, destroying with explosives, burying, etc". Big help, huh? If they were lucky,, they may have been able to remove some of the gear and throw it overboard while they were still over water but it's doubtfull that they had time to do much. Just too much gear and it wuld have been well mounted and then too there probably weren't a lot of tools around to use take stuff out with. It >is more likely that most of the sensitive gear is at >the bottom of the ocean with most of its guts fused into >a ball by a thermite pack. NOT a good idea for use on an aircraft in flight! Joe From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Apr 10 10:46:41 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: Re: vt100 & graphics (emanuel stiebler) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010408013212.01f8eeb0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408112133.01eb16b0@208.226.86.10> <3AD0B56A.7EF4580B@ecubics.com> <15058.33954.64595.944535@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AD316AE.FB31E2F2@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <15059.10977.924208.175672@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 10, emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Now, though, I have two VT100s with the VT125 graphics option > > installed. They're neat! > > Was there really an option, or is it just aother mainboard ? It's really an option. It's a secondary board, almost as large as the main board, that sandwiches onto it. Then both slide into the card cage. The option kit also comes with a replacement back cover that has extra holes for stuff like the RGB BNC connectors (it can drive an external color monitor)... > P.S. You need both of them ? > ;-) ;) I hadn't thought about parting with one of them, but I might consider it... -Dave McGuire From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 10:51:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids References: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <004401c0c1d6$1b7098e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You have GOT to get a spell-checker! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 10:58:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware References: <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com> Message-ID: <005501c0c1d7$206cbb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Having made and sold a combination backplane/extender board for a bus based on this connector (2 x 22 @ 0.157" pitch) , I still have a few of the things lying about, hence haven't had to look for them in the stores. Nevertheless, I do see them from time to time at various surplus outlets. Here in the Denver-Boulder-Longmont area, the surplus outlets are down to just a couple, namely Gateway electronics and J. B. Saunders Electonics, and, at last check, both had a few of them in stock. I doubt you will have trouble finding them wherever you are. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware > Used to be, you could go to Radio Shock and purchase one of those > solder-yourself 44-pin edgecards that mate with the KIM-4 expansion > board. I'm thinking one way around my dead keyboard issue which > also solves my desire for expansion would be to add a CPLD > decoder, 32K SRAM, 32K ROM (with holes around the 6530s > and remapping new patched monitor into $1800-$1FFF), and 6551 > UART/MAX232 combo to input code and d/l intel hex. (The cassette > interface on poor KIM is dead, too.) > > By the way, if anyone's interested, I have a generic 6502 Intel Hex > program downloader program that allows you to assemble and directly > download programs from the development PC into your SBC. > It's freeware so have at it if anyone finds it useful. > > It's at: > http://www.6502.org/source/monitors/intelhex/intelhex.htm > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 11:03:00 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Sellam References: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3AD252DF.719877B2@internet1.net> Message-ID: <006f01c0c1d7$b7cf00e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I used to do that too. He must have said something that P*SSED me off, but now that I don't remember it any longer, it makes little sense to go on picking on the guy. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Sellam > Jeff, > > Stop that. Just becasue Sellam got a litte upset doesn't mean you have > to antagonize him.... even though it might be fun :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 11:03:44 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware References: Message-ID: <007701c0c1d7$d208dee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> He doesn't make it easy to let him off, though, does he? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM Subject: Re: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > BravoSierra is one, B&C Computervisions is another, and there are a > > couple of others that escape my perforated memory. Acid is not a good > > thing for your long-term memory.... > > I was never one to turn down a good tab of acid but it looks like you went > way over the top, Jeffrey. > > This explains everything :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 11:04:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <008101c0c1d7$fea799a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:12 PM Subject: Kim / Commie keypads > Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] > > >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > [ snip ] > > >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one of > >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > > > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and disassemble > >it to clean the contacts? > > I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my > basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and I > don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the > next couple days if that'd help... > > Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... > > [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 11:06:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Sellam References: <20010410030517.ZWTQ29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <009101c0c1d8$3af4eac0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Wherever Sam's at, you need a spellchecker! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Sellam > Thanks for changing the topic for me. > > I never had the intention of forewarding that topic. Thanks again. > > Sellam knows where I'm at. I think and has the maturity to deal with it. > He has already demonstrated it with good humour. Just my intention. > Humor with a point. > > I think we all need a coach or a challenge once in awhile. He got his and > that is all. I'm no patsey and we all know that now. > > I've shown my ass on this list and people, for some reason, still love me. > Thank you all. I enjoy your company and would miss you if I were to be > lost from the list. Your collective forgiveness is something I've enjoyed > and something Sellam still and probably will always enjoy. > > Oh, and it was fun. That is the point is it not? Next time you take a > screwdriver to a PDP, remember that this is supposed to be FUN! > > All for the greater good. > > Best and regards, > > Jeff > In <3AD252DF.719877B2@internet1.net>, on 04/09/01 > at 11:05 PM, Chad Fernandez said: > > >Jeff, > > >Stop that. Just becasue Sellam got a litte upset doesn't mean you have > >to antagonize him.... even though it might be fun :-) > > >Chad Fernandez > >Michigan, USA > > >THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > >> > >> I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 11:18:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: Message-ID: <00a101c0c1d9$d8151c20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Though I haven't studied it in detail, I did peek at the manual that was posted. It seems that it would be straightforward to "ohm-out" the keypad from the edge connector, to which the rows and columns are connected, just to ensure that the connectino integrity of the board is not what's causing the problems. If the connections between both the port LSI and the edge connector and the key matrix are good and the keypad really is the problem, the edge connector certainly offers a good workaround. There are key switches that have removable tops, and, hence, to which labels can be attached. I have some of these on keyboards, but, for now, that's where they're staying. With a little rubber cement, today's high-resolution printers, and a bit of clear nail polish, one ought to be able to make a useable label for a keytop. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > Here's an accurate drawing of the whole board, including the keypad: > > > > http://www.ping.be/kim-1__6502/6502/usrman.html#B > > > > It isn't simply soldered to the board -- it's a "stand-alone" unit, > > and some of the legends like "PC" and "GO" would probably not > > be found on your garden-variety pocket calculator. > > Sure, both those are just labels. The actual mechanism is still just a > pocket calculator keypad (I think). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 10 11:32:42 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Sellam "old shoe" Ismail wrote: > Thanks, it's all true. In fact, I am the pilot of the EP-3, writing this > message from confinement on Hainan Island in China. Luckily they gave us Why didn't H explain to W that unless this is going to last 3.5 years, it is too early? Even if your hemmorrhoids spell out "Courage, mom" in Morse code (ASCII? EBCDIC?), they are off-topic. And if they are over 10 years old, try a cortisone cream. So, just blue-screen the Hacker Hellstorm and come down off of the tower. From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 10:21:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah yes, you're missing a semi-colon, silly! :) On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Mekonnen Tekeste wrote: > > Can Any one help me please? i am trying to interface a bar code reader > to PCI Bus via a 82C51 (UART), and i wrote a code to support my > hardware design but the software it seem wrong. Here is the code: > > > > #include > #include > #include > > /* Type Definitions */ > > typedef unsigned char UBYTE; /* Old habbit... */ > > /* Serial Port Definitions */ > > #define STATUS 0x308 /* Status Base Address */ > #define CONTROL 0x300 /* Control Base Address */ > #define TXREG 0x30C /* Transmit Base Address */ > #define RXREG 0x304 /* Receive Base Address */ > #define TRUE 1 > > /* Function Prototypes */ > > void InitUSART(void); /* Initialize USART */ > void TxData(UBYTE); /* Transmit Data */ > UBYTE RxData(void); /* Receive Data */ > > /* > InitUSART() - Initialize USART to 153600, 8 Data Bits, No Parity, 1 Stop > Bit > */ > void InitUSART(void) > { > outp(CONTROL, 0x40); // Reset UART > outp(CONTROL, 0x4E); // Stop, no parity, 8-bit, %16 baud > outp(CONTROL, 0x05); // UART now ready > } > > /* > TxData() - Send Data to Serial Port > Entry: > data = Data to transmit > */ > void TxData(UBYTE data) > { > UBYTE x; > > /* Check for Tx Buffer Empty */ > do > { > x = inp(STATUS); > x &= 0x01; > } while(x == 0); > > outp(TXREG, data); /* Send Data */ > } > > /* > RxData() - Receive Data from the Serial Port > Exit: > data = Rx Data byte > */ > UBYTE RxData(void) > { > UBYTE x; > UBYTE data = 0; > > while(TRUE) /* Check for Rx Data */ > { > x = inp(STATUS); > x &= 0x02; > if(x == 0x02) > { > data = inp(RXREG); /* Get Data */ > break; > } > > /* Optional. Aborts if keypress */ > > if(kbhit()) /* Abort if Keypress */ > { > getch(); > printf("\n"); > break; > } > } > return(data); > } > > > void main(void) > { > > > InitUSART(); > > while(TRUE) > putch(RxData()); > } > > > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Apr 10 11:39:49 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request Message-ID: Surviving customs My experience when shipping through customs you must make sure that you don't say it's "worthless", they think you are lying. I have tried saying "used medical equipment" but they translated that to "medical waste". I ended up with "sterile out of date medical equipment that is composed of stainless steel and plastic". Actually supplying the least amount of information is probably smartest. Try to avoid mention of the "radioactive" or in our case "non-radioactive" word. I suspect that any mention of any form of the "drug" word would also be a stupid. Mentioning that it will be used for educational purposes may have helped. They asked for an itemized list with values of each item. I had included several thousand catheters, needles and injectors and estimated the value of each item as $1 and ended up with the question then "Why aren't you insuring this shipment?" My frustration level was high but the third time for the shipment it made it through. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Apr 10 11:46:57 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: large load of old (non-PC) microcomputers available Message-ID: Is this some place in Australia? Isn't that where Brisbane is located? I'm not sure I know the abbreviations for all of the Australian states and territories. >Most importantly, are any interested list members in AZ (brisbane I = >think was the city) and could thus do a look-see, and maybe organize = >shipping, etc? Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Apr 10 12:03:43 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Tue Apr 10 12:13:10 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: [Fwd: Re: HDOS 3.0] Message-ID: <16B8B505.43AAFB0B.CF1A260E@netscape.net> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: HDOS 3.0 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:07:33 EDT From: DocBogner@cs.com To: knightstalkerbob@netscape.net In a message dated 4/10/2001 8:15:53 AM Central Daylight Time, knightstalkerbob@netscape.net writes: << How do I go about transferring from the H-89 to a PC? I know there used to translator services, used one myself once in 85-86. Is there a software package for the H89 or PC that will read the others format, or nul-modem the two together? >> Bob, it's just been too long for me to remember this offhand. I will have to dig into some of my old HDOS notebooks. Meanwhile, please repost the above as a message to me (or All) in the existing HDOS 3 message thread on our forum. That will get some more replies from HDOS users whose memories are better than mine. Doc -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, '98, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Apr 10 12:20:31 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 References: Message-ID: <001301c0c1e2$8c054860$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi all... Well...VCF east hey at Worcester,MA hey....hmmmm...... Hey, it's even only a 6 hour drive from Montreal...! Ill be easy to spot : 6'4 with a tuque... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:07 AM Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 > > I've gotten some griping about my selection for the location of the first > VCF East. > > No doubt, a good majority of folks will be quite happy with the selection. > This is no accident. The site was chosen based on the demographics I > collected. Most of the attendees will be coming from Massachusetts and > surrounding areas. > > As with any sensible business decision, it was based on what will > hopefully bring as many attendees to the event, which in turn means I will > be able to recoup expenses and will therefore want to continue to do > Festivals on the east coast. > > I received over 150 responses to the VCF East survey. Here is a summary > of the results: > > This chart shows the number of responses received from each state, sorted > by number of attendees in descending order. > > State Count > ----- ----- > MA 27 > NY 15 > PA 12 > NH 8 > MD 7 > OH 5 > NJ 4 > FL 4 > CT 3 > VT 3 > GA 3 > RI 2 > VA 2 > NC 2 > IN 2 > IL 2 > MN 2 > ME 1 > WV 1 > MI 1 > WI 1 > IA 1 > MO 1 > TX 1 > > - Nearly 25% of potential attendees will be coming from MA alone > - 40% of potential attendees will be coming from the New England area > - If you include NY, PA and NJ with New England, nearly 70% will be coming > from this combined northeast region > > There was also a strong desire to keep the event close to the Rhodes > Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhodes Island so > that tours to those facilities could be organized. Providence is only > about 45 minutes from Worcester. There are also several other museums > that I hope to get involved with the event, including the MIT and > Harvard museums and the Computer Museum in Boston. > > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the potential > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should > not be a major ordeal for most folks. > > So there you have it, the reasoning behind the selection of the location > for VCF East 1.0. I know it won't please everyone, but the unhappy folks > need to realize it has to be held where it makes the most sense. > > I really look forward to VCF East, and I hope you easterly folks do too :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 10 12:23:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010410101754.3187eefe@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: Something people seem to be missing here, is that gathering intelligence promotes PEACE and prevents WAR. Generally speaking it is in the interest of most people in the world for things like the sale or transport of weapons of mass distruction to be detected EARLY. If for example Iraq got its hands on some "working" missles instead of the reject scuds the whole middle east could go up in smoke. It would be messy for everybody if terrorist groups got a couple nukes. This second link to Janes is an assessment of the risk, and it looks like the spy plane was just upgraded to the latest tech. They say the worst loss since the U2 went down. http://www.janes.co.uk/aerospace/military/news/misc/aries010406_1_n.shtml From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Apr 10 12:54:31 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff References: Message-ID: <3AD348D7.799D8548@kcinter.net> Hi Mike, Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc for the H8. Bill elecdata1 "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Apr 10 13:04:56 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:04 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request...and a spelling checker for who? References: Message-ID: <009501c0c1e8$c0715480$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> ----- Original Message ----- From: McFadden, Mike To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 12:39 PM Subject: Re: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request > Surviving customs > My experience when shipping through customs you must make sure that you > don't say it's "worthless", they think you are lying. I have tried saying When I trade or giveaway always use "worthless - value $0" here and never any problems with Canada customs or US customs. I use: "Obsolete - used AS-IS computers & parts"...text in customs declaration...Never a problem. Only issue is if its shipped from a commercial/company adress, It cant be treated as a "GIFT" and be exempt from duties and taxes even if its a true gift...thats if its coming into Canada... I won some software in a contest in the US (online auto racing) and was charged $15 canadian for some $40US value software...because it came from a "INC." address...$5 charge (!) and 2 other taxes on top of that... So people shipping and trading stuff with me, never ship from a commercial address!!! Also, I have an excuse for MY spelling mistakes...I am french.... Claude > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Apr 10 13:36:02 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery Message-ID: I've started messing around with a GRiDPAD 1910 I got a couple of years ago. Works fine on AC using the brick that came with it, but the two battery packs I got with it are dead. They won't take a charge, either in the machine or connected directly to the brick (they have a socket for this). The specs printed on the batteries list 12 volts, 1Ah. I opened one of the packs and the contents look very much like 10 AA batteries. I'm wondering if I can replace the contents of the battery pack with 10 AAs. The specs printed on the AC brick say it produces 17.25 volts at 2A. If I replace the contents of the battery pack with 10 AAs, I figure I'll get around 15 volts. Anybody want to hazard a guess as to whether this will work? Thanks, Bill Sudbrink From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 10 13:21:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Apr 9, 1 06:10:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4408 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010410/97586ff9/attachment.ksh From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Tue Apr 10 12:03:21 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: <15058.36607.604317.453924@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <105.17b246b.28022bed@aol.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408141459.0291e480@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010410130321.006b6a40@obregon.multi.net.co> At 12:41 AM 4/10/01 -0400, you wrote: > > Hmm. I've never found computers tedious. I also don't run >Windows. I think there's probably a connection there. :) Windows is hardly tedious; "irritant" is a better description. > And no...nobody *NEEDS* to use Windows. I love getting into that >argument. "But I NEEEEEEED it!" My favorite response is usually >something like "you mean you'd be unemployed and destitute if this one >bad product from this one bad company didn't exist?" Sigh. I could not afford to pay a yearly Matlab license for a unix machine with personal money. I did manage to buy a Wintel license for personal use a couple years ago in a group purchase. And no, octave and Scilab are not yet up to the task. > That really pisses some people off. Others have gone and installed >decent OSs on their PeeCees that very day. :) I do prefer unix for my numerics work whenever I have a choice. Still, my home PC is full of Win32 ports of Unix packages :-) . No msoffice or anything like that if I can avoid it. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 10 13:31:56 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? Message-ID: Haven't seen a bit of mail out of this list - is it broke? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010410/3aecc278/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 10 13:59:13 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Minimum VMS Version for VS4000? Message-ID: Does anyone happen to know the minimum version of VMS that will run on a VAXstation 4000? Either a VLC, m60, or m90. Alternativelly, does anyone know what the max VMS version Oracle 7.0.12 or 6.0.36.7 will support on OpenVMS? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pbboy at mindspring.com Tue Apr 10 14:00:58 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed References: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3AD3586A.FA4D5866@mindspring.com> I posted some pictures of it, they aren't very good but you can see the bus layout and a few card shots. The cards are as follows on picture 2 (swtp2.jpg) from left to right, top to bottom: parallel (label on back), serial x 3, MicroWorks. 2nd row: CPU card and RAM card. The parallel card is long, just as you described it. They are located here: http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pbboy/swtp/swtp.htm Robert Jeff Hellige wrote: > Robert, > > I'll check my SWTPc docs and see what I have for the PSU. In > your box, are the two buses parallel to each other, with a long card > bridging them near the PSU? I know someone with quite a bit of SWTPc > stuff and could probably get info from him if I don't have it in mine. > > Jeff > > >I picked up a SWTP central processing unit, model /09. What is this? It has a > >SWTP cpu card (MP-09B) with a 2 MHz MC68B09P, a Hazelwood card > >marked DM-64 and > >a Microworks card with an MC68B21P on it. The MicroWorks card has > >wires through > >the rear of the case. It also has 3 serial and 1 parallel cards. > >The Hazelwood > >card looks burned a bit on the back side of one transistor. The CPU > >card looks > >ok, but I don't want to power it up without first checking the power supply. > >What are the voltages for the power supply? What is the MicroWorks > >card? Does > >anyone have any docs or info for this, maybe a website? Thanks. > > > >Robert > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 10 14:04:12 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Just checking Message-ID: had to resub under my other address as my other seems to be down - ignore this. From Demon02554 at aol.com Tue Apr 10 14:03:13 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? Message-ID: as far as i can tell this thing works fine From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 10 14:05:56 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online In-Reply-To: <200104101129.f3ABTCA02028@bg-tc-ppp713.monmouth.com> References: <200104092117.OAA03161@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 9, 2001 02:17:16 pm" Message-ID: >xv on X Unix will handle tiff files, I believe. > >Bill Unfortuantly it won't handle the multi-page TIFF's that seem to be very popular for scanned DEC doc's. It will only read the first page. For that matter is there any software on the Mac to read Multi-page TIFF's? Last time I needed to read one, I ended up having to fire up Virtual PC on the Mac and read it under Windows! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Apr 10 14:13:51 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: More views on technology Message-ID: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -- Arthur C. Clark And then there's the other view: Any sufficiently low technology is indistinguishable from hard work. Any sufficiently advanced bureaucracy is indistinguishable from molasses. Any sufficiently advanced card game is indistinguishable from magic. Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo. Any sufficiently complicated technology is indistinguishable from bad karma. Any sufficiently high technology is indistinguishable from doubletalk. No mine stolen from some other computer person. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Tue Apr 10 14:15:57 2001 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8EC1@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> It's a bit further north than I would have preferred, but I can't fault your reasoning... And besides, I'm an old WPI alumnus (class of 77), so it'll be a real nostalgia trip for me :-) BTW, anyone else on the list an old WPI hacker (and when I say "hacker", I'm referring to it's archaic meaning, rather than it's current derogatory meaning...) > -----Original Message----- > From: Claude.W [mailto:claudew@videotron.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 > > > Hi all... > > Well...VCF east hey at Worcester,MA hey....hmmmm...... > > Hey, it's even only a 6 hour drive from Montreal...! > > Ill be easy to spot : 6'4 with a tuque... > > Claude > Canuk Computer Collector > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: Classic Computers Mailing List > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:07 AM > Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 > > > > > > I've gotten some griping about my selection for the > location of the first > > VCF East. > > > > No doubt, a good majority of folks will be quite happy with > the selection. > > This is no accident. The site was chosen based on the > demographics I > > collected. Most of the attendees will be coming from > Massachusetts and > > surrounding areas. > > > > As with any sensible business decision, it was based on what will > > hopefully bring as many attendees to the event, which in > turn means I will > > be able to recoup expenses and will therefore want to continue to do > > Festivals on the east coast. > > > > I received over 150 responses to the VCF East survey. Here > is a summary > > of the results: > > > > This chart shows the number of responses received from each > state, sorted > > by number of attendees in descending order. > > > > State Count > > ----- ----- > > MA 27 > > NY 15 > > PA 12 > > NH 8 > > MD 7 > > OH 5 > > NJ 4 > > FL 4 > > CT 3 > > VT 3 > > GA 3 > > RI 2 > > VA 2 > > NC 2 > > IN 2 > > IL 2 > > MN 2 > > ME 1 > > WV 1 > > MI 1 > > WI 1 > > IA 1 > > MO 1 > > TX 1 > > > > - Nearly 25% of potential attendees will be coming from MA alone > > - 40% of potential attendees will be coming from the New > England area > > - If you include NY, PA and NJ with New England, nearly 70% > will be coming > > from this combined northeast region > > > > There was also a strong desire to keep the event close to the Rhodes > > Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of > Rhodes Island so > > that tours to those facilities could be organized. > Providence is only > > about 45 minutes from Worcester. There are also several > other museums > > that I hope to get involved with the event, including the MIT and > > Harvard museums and the Computer Museum in Boston. > > > > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of > the potential > > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east > coast folks > > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life > and a 6-hour > > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles > area is no big > > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple > weekends ago to > > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred > miles should > > not be a major ordeal for most folks. > > > > So there you have it, the reasoning behind the selection of > the location > > for VCF East 1.0. I know it won't please everyone, but the > unhappy folks > > need to realize it has to be held where it makes the most sense. > > > > I really look forward to VCF East, and I hope you easterly > folks do too :) > > > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Apr 10 14:12:25 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? References: Message-ID: <3AD35B18.39BAA21@kcinter.net> Hello Russ, I'm getting them Bill Russ Blakeman wrote: > Haven't seen a bit of mail out of this list - is it broke? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010410/ca186695/attachment.html From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 10 14:20:48 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Apr 10, 01 01:31:56 pm Message-ID: <200104101920.PAA29576@wordstock.com> > > Haven't seen a bit of mail out of this list - is it broke? > ?!! Definitely not broke on this end.... Bryan From liste at artware.qc.ca Tue Apr 10 14:22:56 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 10-Apr-2001 Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I've started messing around with a GRiDPAD 1910 I > got a couple of years ago. I just got my hands on a 2360SL. Do these fit under the 10 year mark? the SL has a 386 in it, so i wonder... Anyway, do you have any good bookmarks about pen-based GRiDs? I've been googling for an hour now, and haven't come up with much. -Philip From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 10 14:32:40 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I fingered out my problem. Was a dumb-butt switching ISPs that made a typo and my freeservers forwarding wasn't forwarding the mail. I'm back though and thanks. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Demon02554@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 2:03 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: List dead? > > > as far as i can tell this thing works fine From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Apr 10 14:34:04 2001 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Minimum VMS Version for VS4000? Message-ID: <01K28ISDB6ZMAEKVU0@cc.usu.edu> > Does anyone happen to know the minimum version of VMS that will run on a > VAXstation 4000? Either a VLC, m60, or m90. I'm pretty certain the minimum for the 4000/60 is 5.5-2. I didn't get a /90 until well after they were out, so I don't the minimium for that and I've never seen a VLC. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 10 14:38:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Minimum VMS Version for VS4000? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410123533.01acf058@208.226.86.10> VMS 5.5 runs on the 4000 series. Its probably the lowest _practical_ version since most software is "5.x or later" on the market. I've got no idea on the Oracle question. --Chuck Unrelated question: Does anyone know if the PL/I and APL implementations for VMS were sublicensed from a third party or were they DEC originals? I ask because I'm trying to get PAKs for both and while working through the Compaq mess is slow if the original authors have a hobbiest program that might be quicker. At 11:59 AM 4/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone happen to know the minimum version of VMS that will run on a >VAXstation 4000? Either a VLC, m60, or m90. > >Alternativelly, does anyone know what the max VMS version Oracle 7.0.12 or >6.0.36.7 will support on OpenVMS? From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Apr 10 14:38:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) In-Reply-To: Re: Wonder (was Re: just outta curiosity) (Carlos Murillo) References: <105.17b246b.28022bed@aol.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010408141459.0291e480@208.226.86.10> <3.0.2.32.20010410130321.006b6a40@obregon.multi.net.co> Message-ID: <15059.24863.684287.197933@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 10, Carlos Murillo wrote: > Sigh. I could not afford to pay a yearly Matlab license for a > unix machine with personal money. I did manage to buy a Wintel license > for personal use a couple years ago in a group purchase. > And no, octave and Scilab are not yet up to the task. How much are those Unix licenses these days? > I do prefer unix for my numerics work whenever I have a choice. > Still, my home PC is full of Win32 ports of Unix packages :-) . > No msoffice or anything like that if I can avoid it. Bravo! :-) -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 10 14:41:20 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410124041.024ef008@208.226.86.10> Seen lots-o-mail, just not a lot of it about classic computers :-) That fits one definition of 'broken' --Chuck At 01:31 PM 4/10/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Haven't seen a bit of mail out of this list - is it broke? From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Apr 10 14:42:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request...and a spelling checker for who? In-Reply-To: Re: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request...and a spelling checker for who? (Claude.W) References: <009501c0c1e8$c0715480$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <15059.25151.24702.568402@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 10, Claude.W wrote: > Also, I have an excuse for MY spelling mistakes...I am french.... No worries, Claude; your english is perfectly readable... -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 10 14:59:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Apr 10, 1 02:36:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010410/62b3026d/attachment.ksh From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Apr 10 15:02:53 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Sellam, Nice! I haven't seen this particular model before, but it has many similarities with the PDS-1. >The CRT is obviously going to need replacing. It looks like I may be able >to just remove the front glass panel and then chip off the intermediate >glass (plastic?) layer that is all cracked to reveal a clean tube on the >inside, but I don't know if this is just an optical illusion (and I don't >know if this would be safe :) The tube has a Fairchild sticker on it. >Apparently Fairchild made CRTs in the late 60s, early 70s. I wonder if I >can just find a replacement? All of my Imlac displays have some amount of this disease, but not nearly as bad as the one in your picture. I am planning on trying a test on one of mine if I cannot find a replacement tube. The test constists of building an enclosure with a pan in the bottom in which I can soak the face of the tube in acetone in order to disolve the resin which is between the face of the actual tube and the plastic protection layer. If the two can be separated in this way, then the plastic can be re-attached to the tube with a new layer of resin. This design is similar to the process used to hold camera lenses together as they are often made up of multiple layers of glass. I have a friend who repairs antique cameras and he suggested this approach. As someone else noted, it would not be safe to operate the tube with out the protective layer, but I hope that with careful handling, it can be repaired back to new condition. >The nice thing about this one is that it came with the programmer's >console. And if you'll look at the picture showing the front card cage >with the logic modules, the long board in the lower right is a "Long >Vector Option", hand-wired by the guy I got it from. It's basically a >co-processor board for drawing the vectors on the display. It allowed the >system to handle more vectors than the basic configuration. Apparently, >if you had too much happening on the display the system would bog down >considerably or crash. The console in your picture is also different than that of the PDS-1. You have a wood enclosure and mine has what I think is a fibreglass enclosure. More importantly you have a knob and mine has some discrete switches. >The display for the PDS-1D is very different from the PDS-1. It's much >larger and has a detached keyboard. The computer itself is also very >different. The card rack uses different connectors, and the memory is on >the other side of the rack instead of plugged into the card cage along >with the rest of the logic modules, as with the PDS-1. The keyboard on my PDS-1 is detached, but is molded/styled to match the display enclosure. Interesting on the memory. Of the different models I have seen, the memory does seem to move around a lot from design to design. >From talking to the previous owner, I'd hoped I would be able to just bring it home and fire it up after some TLC with a Variac, but that ain't gonna happen. He never told me he'd stored it outside. Duh. But I think with a bit of work it can be made to function in time for VCF 5.0, in which I hope to include it in an exhibit of early networked video games. It would be great if you get the machine up and running for VCF 5.0! I have been considering bringing my this year as well, so if we both do, perhaps we can "network" them... >One cool aspect of this machine is that it has a diode ROM board that >instructs the machine to boot off the serial port. The previous owner >wrote some code for his Cromemco that would upload operating software >into the Imlac. He also wrote an assembler on the Cromemco so that he >could assemble programs and then upload them to the Imlac. Pretty >cool. I think this was normal for most of these (to load from the serial port). I did see a unit which had an Iomega (RK05 like) removable hard drive with it at one time. Sadly, the drive was discarded over the years. >This will be my main restoration project for the time being. Do you have the prints that you need. I have prints for all of my machines, but they may be different enough that they would not help you. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. Your pictures have inspired me to put up a better set of images on my site. I will try and do that tomorrow... --tom From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Apr 10 15:05:45 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Minimum VMS Version for VS4000? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410123533.01acf058@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 10, 2001 12:38:54 PM Message-ID: <200104102005.OAA18565@calico.litterbox.com> I know the 4000/500 requires VMS 5.5 or better. 7.2 is plenty snappy on my 4000/vlc in 24 megs of RAM. It's nice. :) Since I remember reading about the VLC *after* the university I worked at got the 4000/500 I'm going to assume it wants 5.5 as well. > > VMS 5.5 runs on the 4000 series. Its probably the lowest _practical_ > version since most software is "5.x or later" on the market. I've got no > idea on the Oracle question. > > > At 11:59 AM 4/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone happen to know the minimum version of VMS that will run on a > >VAXstation 4000? Either a VLC, m60, or m90. > > > >Alternativelly, does anyone know what the max VMS version Oracle 7.0.12 or > >6.0.36.7 will support on OpenVMS? > > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Apr 10 15:21:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <008101c0c1d7$fea799a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a particular X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 15:22:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed In-Reply-To: <3AD3586A.FA4D5866@mindspring.com> References: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> <3AD3586A.FA4D5866@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Hi Robert, Thanks for posting the pics...it's certainly in a case I've not seen before, though the basic internal layout looks very similar to mine. How about comparing the major cards in yours to the list below. It's the internals of my SWTPc 6809: SWTPc MP-09A cpu board with AN 122A modification MP-MB mainboard MP-1D bridgecard between the SS-50 and SS-30 buses. SWTPc DMF2 floppy controller, Rev C Two MP-S2 serial cards, each with two serial ports MP-L2 paralell card with two paralell ports Also, here are the docs that I currently have: DMF2 Floppy disk unit (calls the board both DMAF2 and DMF2A) SWTPc 6809 Programming Reference Manual SWTPc 6809 Computer System Documenation Manual (covers 69A/69K computer, CT-82 terminal, DMAF disk unit, and CDS-1 hard disk) SWTPc SBUG-E 6809 ROM Monitor Version 1.5 User's Guide Smoke Signal Broadcasting MON-69 user's guide MP-09 Processor board assembly instructions MP-B3 Mother Board Assembly instructions MP-S2 Serial Interface Assembly instructions MP-L2 Parallel Interface Assembly instructions MP-P2 Power Supply Assembly instructions The manual isn't the one that shipped with my machine, as mine is a S/09, but some of it still applies. Jeff >I posted some pictures of it, they aren't very good but you can see >the bus layout >and a few card shots. The cards are as follows on picture 2 >(swtp2.jpg) from left >to right, top to bottom: parallel (label on back), serial x 3, >MicroWorks. 2nd >row: CPU card and RAM card. The parallel card is long, just as you >described it. >They are located here: http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pbboy/swtp/swtp.htm > >Robert -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Apr 10 15:30:36 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: List dead? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410124041.024ef008@208.226.86.10> "from Chuck McManis at Apr 10, 2001 12:41:20 pm" Message-ID: <200104102030.PAA27417@caesar.cs.umn.edu> We're all waiting to see who wins Robotica... -Lawrence LeMay > Seen lots-o-mail, just not a lot of it about classic computers :-) That > fits one definition of 'broken' > --Chuck > > At 01:31 PM 4/10/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >Haven't seen a bit of mail out of this list - is it broke? > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 10 15:36:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Minimum VMS Version for VS4000? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410123533.01acf058@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 10, 2001 12:38:54 PM Message-ID: <200104102036.NAA31195@shell1.aracnet.com> > Unrelated question: Does anyone know if the PL/I and APL implementations > for VMS were sublicensed from a third party or were they DEC originals? I > ask because I'm trying to get PAKs for both and while working through the > Compaq mess is slow if the original authors have a hobbiest program that > might be quicker. Do you happen to have the *old* software handbooks for VMS? They might give you an indication. However, I'm fairly sure neither product is covered in any way by any of the Hobbyist programs. Basically the only two companies activelly supporting the Hobbyists besides Compaq are Process software with Multinet, TCPware, and Purveyor, and Raxco with whatever it is they're offering (something to do with printing and/or disk defragging). There is also a European company that makes a menuing software package that is available for VAXen for free, and one Alpha at a company for free (so it's sort of available to hobbyists). There was also a Database company that was offering time limited Beta versions of their Database a while back, but I forget who they were. There were rumors that Oracle was going to do a Hobbyist version of RDB a while back, but it doesn't look to have happened. One of the big bummers from the Hobbyist side is that Process software won't be able to release a Hobbyist version of PMDF thanks to thier licenseing agreement with Sun. Now if someone would do a Refresh of the Hobbyist CD's. I *really* need a copy of TCPIP V5.1 for my Alpha!!! And would like OpenVMS 7.2-1 for it. BTW, my thanks to everyone that answered. I was hoping I'd be able to run V5.5-2 on at least one of the 4000's I've got. That the model 60 will run it is really good news, as it looks like I've finally got a use for it :^) Looks like it's time to retire the 3100/20, since it's only reason for existing is to do compiles on a V5.5-2 system a faster box would be nice. I'm hoping I can get Oracle running on a newer version than V5.5-2 though, as I believe V6.2 is the minimum release that can be in a cluster with V7.2 systems. Right now the model 90 is running V7.1. Zane From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 16:07:13 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001301c0c202$371637e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Not only is it a matrix, but it appears that the matrix scan connections are available at the expansion connector. It should be quite straightforward to deterine whether there's a faulty/inermittent connection and to isolate it. It's just a matter of the associated tedium. That was why I suggested that the on-board keypad could be replaced with an off-board one connected in a similar fashion to the applicaton connector. That will "buy time" to find a suitable replacement, and it will provide a replacement to use in the meantime, also allowing the owner to regain confidence in the remaining functions on the board. Moreover, it allows for the possiblility that there's a problem with the board itself, i.e. intermittent trace, etc. If the external keypad connected to the expansion connector doesn't work consistently either, it suggests there's a problem with the board itself. Likewise, if the problem presently on the board doesn't go away when wires are soldered in parallel with the existing matrix-scanner device connections, presumably a PIA or VIA, then it's likely that the device itself may have been damaged, though I have a bit of trouble imagining a circumstance that it would become intermittent if its solder connections are sound. What's most likely, however, is that the connections or traces have been damaged over years of pressing on the keypad and thereby flexing the board. The simple way to get around that is to solder on the fewer than two-dozen wires used to hook up the keypad and expansion connector, and proceed from there. Ideally, one would generate a test routine for the KIM that would echo via a parallel port, say, the value associated with the scan of the keypad. This would be monitored by an external PC. That same PC would drive a matrix of SPST relays wired in the same matrix as the keypad and attached, in one instance to the physical switch connections on the underside of the KIM-1's keypad, and in another at the expansion connector. After running it over a long time, e.g. a day or weekend, and logging, in the PC, the time and date of each failure, one could then proceed to perturb the circuit board, i.e. push on the keypad to see if it causes the externally generated switch closures to be misread or missed entirely. If the board works perfectly when stimulated externally over a long period of time, and if it doesn't fail when perturbed, it's likely one or more of the switches is worn out. That's when a different keypad becomes attractive. The KIM-1 Keypad was never a thing of beauty or of any technical appeal. for purposes of preserving the device, I'd say it's best to look for an exact replacement, in whatever form it has to be obtained, and use an external keypad attached to the expansion connector in order to retain use of the KIM-1. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a particular > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From jss at ou.edu Tue Apr 10 16:29:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010410095815.00ac9b58@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <019401c0c175$9b410d40$1ec7fec7@pcat> <5.0.2.1.0.20010410095815.00ac9b58@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <986938156.3ad37b2c107b9@email.ou.edu> Looks like some local Saint Louis collector has already picked up the stuff. Game over. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Apr 10 16:54:35 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010410215435.56905.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I've gotten some griping about my selection for the location of the first > VCF East. I haven't been griping, but I probably won't go, either. My loss. > I received over 150 responses to the VCF East survey. Here is a summary > of the results: > State Count > ----- ----- > OH 5 Woohoo! We are number six! We are number six! (Sorry...) I just read in the paper that as of the latest census, Columbus is the 15th largest city in the U.S. (city only, metro areas don't count in the census). > There was also a strong desire to keep the event close to the Rhodes > Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhodes Island so > that tours to those facilities could be organized. That's a sound reason. I've always wanted to see the RCS/RI (ob. nit pick: Rhode Island is singular. The island of Rhodes is in the Mediterranean) > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the potential > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should > not be a major ordeal for most folks. Most folks around here won't go two hours to Cleveland (jokes about Cleveland unnecessary here). In six hours, I can almost get to D.C. (it's under seven). St. Louis is just a little farther than that. Massachusetts is way too far to drive for a weekend. Flying would be required, as for VCF-West. As to East Coast distance perception, think of England - it's a country smaller than most U.S. states. They think 100 miles is the ends of the Earth. My experience is the smaller the state, the greater the distance perception. Lotsa small states once you get East of the Mississippi. Feel free to disagree as you wish. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 17:09:17 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids In-Reply-To: <004401c0c1d6$1b7098e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010410220529.MGON1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Jeez, I'd have to REGISTER my e-mailer for that. What do you want from me? Blood? Seriously, Sellam has a great sense of humor. I'm impressed. Regards, Jeff In <004401c0c1d6$1b7098e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>, on 04/10/01 at 06:09 PM, "Richard Erlacher" said: >You have GOT to get a spell-checker! >Dick >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM >Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids >> I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jeff >> >> -- >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> Jeffrey S. Worley >> President >> Complete Computer Services, Inc. >> 30 Greenwood Rd. >> Asheville, NC 28803 >> 828-277-5959 >> Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com >> THETechnoid@home.com >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From azog at azog.org Tue Apr 10 17:11:39 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics Message-ID: <000901c0c20b$388d7f80$0a00a8c0@azog> does anyone have a cable that has 50 pin SCSI on one side and a 50 pin male centronics on the other side? I need to connect an alternate boot disk to my VS 4000/60, and I don't want to mess with the existing drives, and it'll only be temporary while I try to fix my mistake in VMS, so it won't be in a box or anything... From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 17:15:00 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware In-Reply-To: <007701c0c1d7$d208dee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010410221326.MPWQ1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Honestly, I'm a bit superstitious about psychodelic drugs. I've only 'dropped' a handful of times. As for Shrooms, a handful of times. Lots of smoke though. Long before that, I was known for being absent-minded. I doubt drugs helped, but they weren't the cause either. Except for my amazing good looks and charm, you'd have me figured right as the professor type. Regards, Jeff In <007701c0c1d7$d208dee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>, on 04/10/01 at 06:15 PM, "Richard Erlacher" said: >He doesn't make it easy to let him off, though, does he? >Dick >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sellam Ismail" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM >Subject: Re: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >> >> > BravoSierra is one, B&C Computervisions is another, and there are a >> > couple of others that escape my perforated memory. Acid is not a good >> > thing for your long-term memory.... >> >> I was never one to turn down a good tab of acid but it looks like you went >> way over the top, Jeffrey. >> >> This explains everything :) >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >> >> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 17:19:55 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010410221740.MUND1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Would they spell by tapping, clapping? Maybe they do thier spelling in infrared..... Or red shift. I'd call em' a wonder of the world if they did it in ASCII. Step right up. Ladies and gents........... ;-) Busy busy busy. Regards, Jeff In , on 04/10/01 at 06:19 PM, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: >Even if your hemmorrhoids spell out "Courage, mom" in Morse code (ASCII? >EBCDIC?), they are off-topic. And if they are over 10 years old, try a >cortisone cream. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 17:23:02 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware In-Reply-To: <005501c0c1d7$206cbb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010410221945.MXAH1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Those same 44pin jacks connect to the Atari 800. You have to pull a lot of shielding off the machine to do that, but under the hood, the Atari 800 (not XL) has the same card edge. I've never seen it used for anything ever. Maybe they used it for testing at the factory.... Regards, Jeff In <005501c0c1d7$206cbb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>, on 04/10/01 at 06:23 PM, "Richard Erlacher" said: >Having made and sold a combination backplane/extender board for a bus >based on this connector (2 x 22 @ 0.157" pitch) , I still have a few of >the things lying about, hence haven't had to look for them in the stores. >Nevertheless, I do see them from time to time at various surplus outlets. >Here in the Denver-Boulder-Longmont area, the surplus outlets are down to >just a couple, namely Gateway electronics and J. B. Saunders Electonics, >and, at last check, both had a few of them in stock. I doubt you will >have trouble finding them wherever you are. >Dick >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ross Archer" >To: >Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:59 PM >Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware >> Used to be, you could go to Radio Shock and purchase one of those >> solder-yourself 44-pin edgecards that mate with the KIM-4 expansion >> board. I'm thinking one way around my dead keyboard issue which >> also solves my desire for expansion would be to add a CPLD >> decoder, 32K SRAM, 32K ROM (with holes around the 6530s >> and remapping new patched monitor into $1800-$1FFF), and 6551 >> UART/MAX232 combo to input code and d/l intel hex. (The cassette >> interface on poor KIM is dead, too.) >> >> By the way, if anyone's interested, I have a generic 6502 Intel Hex >> program downloader program that allows you to assemble and directly >> download programs from the development PC into your SBC. >> It's freeware so have at it if anyone finds it useful. >> >> It's at: >> http://www.6502.org/source/monitors/intelhex/intelhex.htm >> >> >> >> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 17:24:50 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010410222132.MYWV1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Not to nitpick, but the original message was missing a title too.... Regards, Jeff P.S. Thanks for VCF East. My wife says she'd like to come with. I can't wait. In , on 04/10/01 at 06:24 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >Ah yes, you're missing a semi-colon, silly! >:) >On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Mekonnen Tekeste wrote: >> >> Can Any one help me please? i am trying to interface a bar code reader >> to PCI Bus via a 82C51 (UART), and i wrote a code to support my >> hardware design but the software it seem wrong. Here is the code: >> >> >> >> #include >> #include >> #include >> >> /* Type Definitions */ >> >> typedef unsigned char UBYTE; /* Old habbit... */ >> >> /* Serial Port Definitions */ >> >> #define STATUS 0x308 /* Status Base Address */ >> #define CONTROL 0x300 /* Control Base Address */ >> #define TXREG 0x30C /* Transmit Base Address */ >> #define RXREG 0x304 /* Receive Base Address */ >> #define TRUE 1 >> >> /* Function Prototypes */ >> >> void InitUSART(void); /* Initialize USART */ >> void TxData(UBYTE); /* Transmit Data */ >> UBYTE RxData(void); /* Receive Data */ >> >> /* >> InitUSART() - Initialize USART to 153600, 8 Data Bits, No Parity, 1 Stop >> Bit >> */ >> void InitUSART(void) >> { >> outp(CONTROL, 0x40); // Reset UART >> outp(CONTROL, 0x4E); // Stop, no parity, 8-bit, %16 baud >> outp(CONTROL, 0x05); // UART now ready >> } >> >> /* >> TxData() - Send Data to Serial Port >> Entry: >> data = Data to transmit >> */ >> void TxData(UBYTE data) >> { >> UBYTE x; >> >> /* Check for Tx Buffer Empty */ >> do >> { >> x = inp(STATUS); >> x &= 0x01; >> } while(x == 0); >> >> outp(TXREG, data); /* Send Data */ >> } >> >> /* >> RxData() - Receive Data from the Serial Port >> Exit: >> data = Rx Data byte >> */ >> UBYTE RxData(void) >> { >> UBYTE x; >> UBYTE data = 0; >> >> while(TRUE) /* Check for Rx Data */ >> { >> x = inp(STATUS); >> x &= 0x02; >> if(x == 0x02) >> { >> data = inp(RXREG); /* Get Data */ >> break; >> } >> >> /* Optional. Aborts if keypress */ >> >> if(kbhit()) /* Abort if Keypress */ >> { >> getch(); >> printf("\n"); >> break; >> } >> } >> return(data); >> } >> >> >> void main(void) >> { >> >> >> InitUSART(); >> >> while(TRUE) >> putch(RxData()); >> } >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 10 17:23:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Apr 10, 1 03:02:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2116 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010410/ef1dd844/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 10 17:51:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > Sellam, > > Nice! I haven't seen this particular model before, but it has many > similarities with the PDS-1. > > >The CRT is obviously going to need replacing. It looks like I may be able > >to just remove the front glass panel and then chip off the intermediate > >glass (plastic?) layer that is all cracked to reveal a clean tube on the > >inside, but I don't know if this is just an optical illusion (and I don't > >know if this would be safe :) The tube has a Fairchild sticker on it. > >Apparently Fairchild made CRTs in the late 60s, early 70s. I wonder if I > >can just find a replacement? > > All of my Imlac displays have some amount of this disease, but not nearly > as bad as the one in your picture. I am planning on trying a test on one > of mine if I cannot find a replacement tube. The test constists of building > an enclosure with a pan in the bottom in which I can soak the face of the > tube in acetone in order to disolve the resin which is between the face of > the actual tube and the plastic protection layer. If the two can be > separated in this way, then the plastic can be re-attached to the tube > with a new layer of resin. This design is similar to the process used to > hold camera lenses together as they are often made up of multiple layers > of glass. I have a friend who repairs antique cameras and he suggested this > approach. As someone else noted, it would not be safe to operate the tube > with out the protective layer, but I hope that with careful handling, it > can be repaired back to new condition. It may work, but I'd guess it will take an eternity to dissolve the resin. Remember, you have a lot of area to dissolve and are getting at it on an edge that is likely only a few thousandths thick. Also, keep it well away from any source of combustion. Acetone is rather combustible and the vapor could be explosive. - don > >The nice thing about this one is that it came with the programmer's > >console. And if you'll look at the picture showing the front card cage > >with the logic modules, the long board in the lower right is a "Long > >Vector Option", hand-wired by the guy I got it from. It's basically a > >co-processor board for drawing the vectors on the display. It allowed the > >system to handle more vectors than the basic configuration. Apparently, > >if you had too much happening on the display the system would bog down > >considerably or crash. > > The console in your picture is also different than that of the PDS-1. You > have a wood enclosure and mine has what I think is a fibreglass enclosure. > More importantly you have a knob and mine has some discrete switches. > > >The display for the PDS-1D is very different from the PDS-1. It's much > >larger and has a detached keyboard. The computer itself is also very > >different. The card rack uses different connectors, and the memory is on > >the other side of the rack instead of plugged into the card cage along > >with the rest of the logic modules, as with the PDS-1. > > The keyboard on my PDS-1 is detached, but is molded/styled to match the > display enclosure. Interesting on the memory. Of the different models > I have seen, the memory does seem to move around a lot from design to > design. > > >From talking to the previous owner, I'd hoped I would be able to just > bring it home and fire it up after some TLC with a Variac, but that ain't > gonna happen. He never told me he'd stored it outside. Duh. But I think > with a bit of work it can be made to function in time for VCF 5.0, in > which I hope to include it in an exhibit of early networked video games. > > It would be great if you get the machine up and running for VCF 5.0! I > have been considering bringing my this year as well, so if we both do, > perhaps we can "network" them... > > >One cool aspect of this machine is that it has a diode ROM board that > >instructs the machine to boot off the serial port. The previous owner > >wrote some code for his Cromemco that would upload operating software > >into the Imlac. He also wrote an assembler on the Cromemco so that he > >could assemble programs and then upload them to the Imlac. Pretty > >cool. > > I think this was normal for most of these (to load from the serial port). > I did see a unit which had an Iomega (RK05 like) removable hard drive with > it at one time. Sadly, the drive was discarded over the years. > > >This will be my main restoration project for the time being. > > Do you have the prints that you need. I have prints for all of my machines, > but they may be different enough that they would not help you. Let me know > if I can be of any assistance. > > Your pictures have inspired me to put up a better set of images on my site. > I will try and do that tomorrow... > > --tom > > From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Apr 10 18:01:43 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Message-ID: <39d83341e3.341e339d83@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:13 am Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Agreed! > Maybe the biggest objection is that it is completely and totally > off-topic > for a mailing list dedicated to discussing old computers? > > The LAST thing I want is an "Us vs. Them" argument in ClassicCmp. > > In ClassicCmp, as in Cyerbspace, there are no borders. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Apr 10 18:03:59 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Message-ID: <37ffb38298.3829837ffb@bigpond.com> > Intrusion?? Offending?? Why, because Americans care about what is > taking place between the USA and China? I wouldn't be offended if an > Israeli talked about the stuff in there country with the > Palestinians. > Why is it that because a list is "International" that everyone is > expected to pretend that they don't live in a country? > Chad, The entire topic is thoroughly irrelavant to the list, this is Classic Computers, not International_Espionage, not last time I looked anyway :- ) ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 10 17:34:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics Message-ID: <00ec01c0c213$49956ab0$b6749a8d@ajp166> From: emanuel stiebler To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: Re: vt100 & graphics >Dave McGuire wrote: >> >> Now, though, I have two VT100s with the VT125 graphics option >> installed. They're neat! > >Was there really an option, or is it just aother mainboard ? It was an option to the main video board. Actually other than some shared timing and IO it could be though ot as a VT100 text terminal and graphics terminal with the video combined (you could do both!). Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 10 17:21:32 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: Now taking exhibit entries for VCF East!!! Message-ID: <00e901c0c213$47da4d30$b6749a8d@ajp166> From: Vintage Computer Festival > >I think I am about to announce that the first VCF East will be held at the >Centrum Centre in Worcester, Massachusetts. The tentative dates are June >23-24. Cool I might just be able to make this one. Worcester is only 45 minutes or so west of me. Who knows I can do some face/name association if it works out. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 10 17:18:10 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:05 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics Message-ID: <00e801c0c213$475b8040$b6749a8d@ajp166> From: Dave McGuire >On April 8, emanuel stiebler wrote: >> In the beginning of the '80 I was sitting on a VT100 with an >> additional/optional >> "selenar graphics board" >> >> Anybody out here, ever heard of such beast or has one ? >> >> As far as I remember, it had an z80 on it, and was emulating an >> Tektronix 4010 or something similar. I dont recall it being 401x anything. It was SIXEL or Regis. > Now, though, I have two VT100s with the VT125 graphics option >installed. They're neat! Best viewed with Barco Color monitor attached. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 10 17:29:05 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <00ea01c0c213$48560ce0$b6749a8d@ajp166> Thats pretty bizzare looking if it's for 8251 and the cmos cousin. You sure you not talking to something else as 8251s were never 153kb/s and I doubt the cmos parts were much faster. The addresses seems strange but that may be an interface oddity. Also most 8251s needed a few reads in the init after reset to clean them out. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Mekonnen Tekeste To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:26 AM > >Can Any one help me please? i am trying to interface a bar code reader >to PCI Bus via a 82C51 (UART), and i wrote a code to support my >hardware design but the software it seem wrong. Here is the code: > > > >#include >#include >#include > >/* Type Definitions */ > >typedef unsigned char UBYTE; /* Old habbit... */ > >/* Serial Port Definitions */ > >#define STATUS 0x308 /* Status Base Address */ >#define CONTROL 0x300 /* Control Base Address */ >#define TXREG 0x30C /* Transmit Base Address */ >#define RXREG 0x304 /* Receive Base Address */ >#define TRUE 1 > >/* Function Prototypes */ > >void InitUSART(void); /* Initialize USART */ >void TxData(UBYTE); /* Transmit Data */ >UBYTE RxData(void); /* Receive Data */ > >/* > InitUSART() - Initialize USART to 153600, 8 Data Bits, No Parity, 1 Stop >Bit >*/ >void InitUSART(void) >{ > outp(CONTROL, 0x40); // Reset UART > outp(CONTROL, 0x4E); // Stop, no parity, 8-bit, %16 baud > outp(CONTROL, 0x05); // UART now ready >} > >/* > TxData() - Send Data to Serial Port > Entry: > data = Data to transmit >*/ >void TxData(UBYTE data) >{ > UBYTE x; > > /* Check for Tx Buffer Empty */ > do > { > x = inp(STATUS); > x &= 0x01; > } while(x == 0); > > outp(TXREG, data); /* Send Data */ >} > >/* > RxData() - Receive Data from the Serial Port > Exit: > data = Rx Data byte >*/ >UBYTE RxData(void) >{ > UBYTE x; > UBYTE data = 0; > > while(TRUE) /* Check for Rx Data */ > { > x = inp(STATUS); > x &= 0x02; > if(x == 0x02) > { > data = inp(RXREG); /* Get Data */ > break; > } > > /* Optional. Aborts if keypress */ > > if(kbhit()) /* Abort if Keypress */ > { > getch(); > printf("\n"); > break; > } > } > return(data); >} > > >void main(void) >{ > > >InitUSART(); > >while(TRUE) > putch(RxData()); >} > > > > > > > > From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 18:12:14 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: Atari 800 In-Reply-To: <20010410221945.MXAH1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010410230858.OZXS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Anyone have an Atari 800 or three they want to get rid of? I don't have one and want one. Have nearly no money but will trade Atari peripheral for it. 1050, I'd even part with an 850 or my P:R: Connection for one. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Apr 10 18:13:54 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <20010410221945.MXAH1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server would accept (too large). Computers: Atari Mega ST4 Atari 1040ST Atari 130xe Atari 800xl Atari 600xl Atari 1200xl Atari 400 Radio Shack COCO 2 Apple IIgs Laser 128 IBM system/36 Digital Equipment Vaxstation 4000/60 Sun Sparcstation 4/330 SWP ATR8000 SWP ATR8500 - Serial number FIVE Kaypro II Kaypro 10 Osborne 1 Data General MV4000DC Masses of associated vintage peripherals and documentation. Good bathroom reading. Vehicles: BMW R60/5 Motorcycle made in 1971 Firearms: Model 1891 Argentine Mauser centerfire, bolt-action rifle in calibre 7.65x39mm - made in the 1890's. Fires. Recoil is horrible, but I'd hate to be on the wrong end of it. Model 1894 Winchester centerfire, lever-action rifle in calibre 30-30. Made in 1993. Great rifle I'd also hate to be on the wrong end of. The plumbing and heating in my house makes my Mauser look state-of-the-art. The wireing makes the plumbing look modern. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 10 18:17:11 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <000901c0c20b$388d7f80$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: By 50 pin SCSI do you mean the 50 pin header on the drive? The 50 pin Centronics IS SCSI-1 as far as I know. If you wish to go from a 50 pin SCSI-1 (centronics) to a 50 pin female header (as what goes to the drive) then just get a 50 conductor ribbon, then a female IDC/IDS header and an IDC/IDS centronics connector. Use a workbench vise carefully to crimp them down and make sure pin 1 of the header is connected to pin 1 of the Centronics. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Billy D'Augustine > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > does anyone have a cable that has 50 pin SCSI on one side and a > 50 pin male > centronics on the other side? I need to connect an alternate boot > disk to my > VS 4000/60, and I don't want to mess with the existing drives, and it'll > only be temporary while I try to fix my mistake in VMS, so it > won't be in a > box or anything... > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 10 18:22:14 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <000901c0c20b$388d7f80$0a00a8c0@azog> from "Billy D'Augustine" at "Apr 10, 2001 06:11:39 pm" Message-ID: <200104102322.f3ANMEq03790@bg-tc-ppp1556.monmouth.com> > does anyone have a cable that has 50 pin SCSI on one side and a 50 pin male > centronics on the other side? I need to connect an alternate boot disk to my > VS 4000/60, and I don't want to mess with the existing drives, and it'll > only be temporary while I try to fix my mistake in VMS, so it won't be in a > box or anything... Does the 4000 use 50 pin scsi... the VaxStation3100 here's got a wierd 68pin. I do have a 50pin centronix to 50 pin SCSI II micro connector. You do mean the stuff used on Sun Sparcstation I and higher workstations to go to scsi. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pbboy at mindspring.com Tue Apr 10 18:29:00 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed References: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> <3AD3586A.FA4D5866@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3AD3973C.1B44BDE2@mindspring.com> Here are my cards: SWTP MP-09B Rev. B (1980) MP-MBA (1982) Hazelwood DM-64 MicroWorks 6850 UIO 6820 (what is this?) three SWTP MP-S2 SWTP MP-ID Rev. F with parallel that's all of them, no floppy controllers unless one of these are one. apparently the serial cards had a tape drive and modem attached, the cable were labeled as such. I've posted the pictures of the individual cards out of the case, all but the bridge as I couldn't remove it. they are on this address: http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pbboy/swtp/swtp2.htm Robert Jeff Hellige wrote: > Hi Robert, > > Thanks for posting the pics...it's certainly in a case I've > not seen before, though the basic internal layout looks very similar > to mine. How about comparing the major cards in yours to the list > below. It's the internals of my SWTPc 6809: > > SWTPc MP-09A cpu board with AN 122A modification > MP-MB mainboard > MP-1D bridgecard between the SS-50 and SS-30 buses. > SWTPc DMF2 floppy controller, Rev C > Two MP-S2 serial cards, each with two serial ports > MP-L2 paralell card with two paralell ports > > Also, here are the docs that I currently have: > > DMF2 Floppy disk unit (calls the board both DMAF2 and DMF2A) > SWTPc 6809 Programming Reference Manual > SWTPc 6809 Computer System Documenation Manual (covers > 69A/69K computer, CT-82 terminal, DMAF disk unit, and CDS-1 hard disk) > SWTPc SBUG-E 6809 ROM Monitor Version 1.5 User's Guide > Smoke Signal Broadcasting MON-69 user's guide > MP-09 Processor board assembly instructions > MP-B3 Mother Board Assembly instructions > MP-S2 Serial Interface Assembly instructions > MP-L2 Parallel Interface Assembly instructions > MP-P2 Power Supply Assembly instructions > > The manual isn't the one that shipped with my machine, as > mine is a S/09, but some of it still applies. > > Jeff > > > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From azog at azog.org Tue Apr 10 19:07:36 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <005a01c0c21b$6a9c2f20$0a00a8c0@azog> I have an external SCSI drive, which I want to connect to the external SCSI port of my VAX 4000/60. The SCSI drive has a 50 pin connector. The VAX has a 50 pin centronics female. I'd like a cable to go between the two. My point in posting was to avoid having to construct a cable (which I've done previously, and no longer have the cable), or purchase one at inflated prices. > By 50 pin SCSI do you mean the 50 pin header on the drive? The 50 pin > Centronics IS SCSI-1 as far as I know. If you wish to go from a 50 pin > SCSI-1 (centronics) to a 50 pin female header (as what goes to the drive) > then just get a 50 conductor ribbon, then a female IDC/IDS header and an > IDC/IDS centronics connector. Use a workbench vise carefully to crimp them > down and make sure pin 1 of the header is connected to pin 1 of the > Centronics. > From emu at ecubics.com Tue Apr 10 19:22:32 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics References: <00e801c0c213$475b8040$b6749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AD3A3C8.43BC8A4@ecubics.com> ajp166 wrote: > > >> As far as I remember, it had an z80 on it, and was emulating an > >> Tektronix 4010 or something similar. > > I dont recall it being 401x anything. It was SIXEL or Regis. No. Definitely tk401x ;-) I wrote some of the graphics software for our applications > > Now, though, I have two VT100s with the VT125 graphics option > >installed. They're neat! > > Best viewed with Barco Color monitor attached. Yes. They were/are the best. We had one on our big graphics system. (grinell ?) cheers From emu at ecubics.com Tue Apr 10 19:24:10 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics References: <00ec01c0c213$49956ab0$b6749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AD3A42A.58D1166F@ecubics.com> ajp166 wrote: > >Was there really an option, or is it just aother mainboard ? > > It was an option to the main video board. Actually other than some > shared timing and IO it could be though ot as a VT100 text terminal > and graphics terminal with the video combined (you could do both!). So, it was the similar to the "selenar" option we had. You could see both images at the same time (text & graphic) cheers From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 10 19:29:27 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <200104102322.f3ANMEq03790@bg-tc-ppp1556.monmouth.com> Message-ID: 68 pin should be SCSI-2 I think > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Pechter > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:22 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > does anyone have a cable that has 50 pin SCSI on one side and a > 50 pin male > > centronics on the other side? I need to connect an alternate > boot disk to my > > VS 4000/60, and I don't want to mess with the existing drives, and it'll > > only be temporary while I try to fix my mistake in VMS, so it > won't be in a > > box or anything... > > Does the 4000 use 50 pin scsi... the VaxStation3100 here's got a wierd > 68pin. > > I do have a 50pin centronix to 50 pin SCSI II micro connector. > You do mean the stuff used on Sun Sparcstation I and higher workstations > to go to scsi. > > Bill > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 > Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 > Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: > "Magical Misery Tour" From vcf at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 18:21:47 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Confirmed speakers for VCF East Message-ID: I am thrilled to announce that Wayne Green, the mogul of the veritable publishing empire that is Wayne Green Publications, and Jon Titus, designer of the Mark-8 computer, are confirmed as speakers at VCF East! Also, Kevin Stumpf of the Nostalgic Technophile and author of the first ever book on computer collecting, "A Guide to Collecting Computers and Computer Collectibles". http://www.nostalgictechnophile.com More to come! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Apr 10 19:41:11 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Message-ID: <3fb86423e4.423e43fb86@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Fernandez Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 10:04 am Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. >> > Dude your are really mad, and need to cool off. It's not that big a > deal. Look at how many people are actually taking part in the > thread. > If people objected that much to it, I don't think they would be > activelyparticipating. > For some of us, it actually costs money to d/load this crud, for instance, where I am (rural remote in Oz for example) there are no local ISP's, my nearest is an STD call away & they charge $3.79 an hour for access, so I need to be in & out as quickly as possible. Ax aresult, I'm very picky about what I subscribe too. I did *not* subscribe to Classic Computers for this sort of patriotic nationalistic US rubbish that has developed in this particular thread. ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 18:26:23 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: List dead? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Haven't seen a bit of mail out of this list - is it broke? Naw, but all you missed was a lot of crap :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 18:28:40 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed In-Reply-To: <3AD3586A.FA4D5866@mindspring.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Robert wrote: > I posted some pictures of it, they aren't very good but you can see > the bus layout and a few card shots. The cards are as follows on > picture 2 (swtp2.jpg) from left to right, top to bottom: parallel > (label on back), serial x 3, MicroWorks. 2nd row: CPU card and RAM > card. The parallel card is long, just as you described it. They are > located here: http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pbboy/swtp/swtp.htm Hi Robert. I have five of these :) They are basically high-powered (for the time) 6809 multi-user business servers. They most likely ran the FLEX operating system and performed routine business accounting type things. A nice box. A good example of late-model SWTPC systems before they went the way of the dodo, sometime in the mid- to late-80s. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mac at Wireless.Com Tue Apr 10 19:45:20 2001 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20010410215435.56905.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: >Most folks around here won't go two hours to Cleveland (jokes about Cleveland >unnecessary here). In six hours, I can almost get to D.C. (it's under seven). >St. Louis is just a little farther than that. Massachusetts is way too far to >drive for a weekend. Flying would be required, as for VCF-West. > > Feel free to disagree as you wish. > > -ethan ethan, have you considered moving to California or Massachusetts? ;-) Could save you airfare! -Mike From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 10 21:08:06 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: HP Journals FS -- HP 9815, 9825 calculators, HP 2100 computers, etc. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010410210806.348706b6@mailhost.intellistar.net> I have just finished listing a bunch of HP Journals on E-bay. Several of them contain articles about the HP 9815 and 9825 calculators, HP 2100 computers and other items of interest to this group. I will be listing more of them tomorrow including at least one issue full of articles about the HP 25 and other Woodstock calculators. You can see the complete list at "http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&u serid=rigdonj@intellistar.net". Joe From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 10 19:58:39 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD3AC3F.27113BBD@internet1.net> Apple //e MicroVax 3400 <----still working on it IBM Model 8580 with Reply Corp. upgrade planer Unisys MPE4668 EISA server (it's a 486, runs DOS, etc) IBM 6x86PR300 (Cyrix 233mhz)/ FIC 503+, all scsi (main system) I have more, but these are the machines, and I can turn on, and they will do something. Others, are projects that I want to get to, thought I would get to, decided not to get to, want to get rid of, etc. Maybe I'll compile a list of stuff to offer to the list. I don't have anything too exotic, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > would accept (too large). From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 10 20:00:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: <005a01c0c21b$6a9c2f20$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <001901c0c222$cd9d7960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What's causing all the confusion here is the nomenclature. First of all, there's only one Centronics connector I've ever seen and that's a 36-conductor type. It was made for Centronics, which was at one time, a pretty good printer maker, though the Centronics line was pretty much killed off by the much better and less costly substitutes imported for the PC market some years before there even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. Prior to SCSI fame, it was, and still is, widely used in the telecom business. Not being a telecom type, I'm not aware of a generic name for that type of connector. SCSI, however, in its various versions, uses connectors ranging from the well-known and popular DB25 ( and a special smaller variant for APPLEs ) to the now-popular 80-position SCA. The popular name of "SCSI-II" connector has become associated with the really small, fragile, and highly impractical 50-position type common on CDR's etc, though I've seen it applied to the 68-pin WIDE SCSI connector also commonly called a SCSI-III connector (don't ask me why). Does anybody really know what's what in this context. It would really be nice if the standard would name these connectors, but, last time I looked, it hand't yet. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billy D'Augustine" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > I have an external SCSI drive, which I want to connect to the external SCSI > port of my VAX 4000/60. The SCSI drive has a 50 pin connector. The VAX has a > 50 pin centronics female. I'd like a cable to go between the two. > > My point in posting was to avoid having to construct a cable (which I've > done previously, and no longer have the cable), or purchase one at inflated > prices. > > > By 50 pin SCSI do you mean the 50 pin header on the drive? The 50 pin > > Centronics IS SCSI-1 as far as I know. If you wish to go from a 50 pin > > SCSI-1 (centronics) to a 50 pin female header (as what goes to the drive) > > then just get a 50 conductor ribbon, then a female IDC/IDS header and an > > IDC/IDS centronics connector. Use a workbench vise carefully to crimp them > > down and make sure pin 1 of the header is connected to pin 1 of the > > Centronics. > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 10 21:23:31 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010410212331.4377cf42@mailhost.intellistar.net> Bill, It will probably work since the charging voltage of the battery is certainly higher than the 15 volts that you would get from using alkaline or carbon-zinc batteries. But why take a chance? Take the battery pack to Batteries Plus or one of the other battery rebuilders and have them replace the dead cells with new cells. They can take it apart and remove the old cells and weld the straps and terminals back onto the new cells and reassemble the pack and make it work exactly like the original battery. FWIW I insist on the Japanese made Sanyo cells, I've had VERY good luck with them. Don't let them stick you with some no name Chinese or Mexican made crap. Joe At 02:36 PM 4/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >I've started messing around with a GRiDPAD 1910 I >got a couple of years ago. Works fine on AC using >the brick that came with it, but the two battery >packs I got with it are dead. They won't take a >charge, either in the machine or connected directly >to the brick (they have a socket for this). The specs >printed on the batteries list 12 volts, 1Ah. I opened >one of the packs and the contents look very much like >10 AA batteries. > >I'm wondering if I can replace the contents of the >battery pack with 10 AAs. The specs printed on the AC >brick say it produces 17.25 volts at 2A. If I replace >the contents of the battery pack with 10 AAs, I figure >I'll get around 15 volts. Anybody want to hazard a >guess as to whether this will work? > >Thanks, >Bill Sudbrink > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 20:17:28 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The 6809 versions were built like tanks. Mine came with support ROMs from Microware for running OS/9, though FLEX and disk system specific DOSes were also available. From what I've been able to gather, the 6809 boxes like mine and Robert's supported more RAM than the earlier 69/A and 69/K boxes. With a friends help, I'm hoping to get a new disk system up and running on mine fairly soon. Jeff >I have five of these :) They are basically high-powered (for the time) >6809 multi-user business servers. They most likely ran the FLEX operating >system and performed routine business accounting type things. > >A nice box. A good example of late-model SWTPC systems before they went >the way of the dodo, sometime in the mid- to late-80s. > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 20:21:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: SWTP info needed In-Reply-To: <3AD3973C.1B44BDE2@mindspring.com> References: <3AD2A1B8.FA59ABC@mindspring.com> <3AD3586A.FA4D5866@mindspring.com> <3AD3973C.1B44BDE2@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Hi Robert, I've been forwarding all of your information to a friend who is pretty big into the SWTPc machines. Mine had been the first he had heard of with the MP-MB/MP-1D combination with both buses parallel to each other, so he's been really interested in hearing about yours and looking at the pictures. I find the casing of yours interesting since it is so different than mine. Mine is in the standard SWTPc black/silver case. Jeff >Here are my cards: > >SWTP MP-09B Rev. B (1980) >MP-MBA (1982) >Hazelwood DM-64 >MicroWorks 6850 UIO 6820 (what is this?) >three SWTP MP-S2 >SWTP MP-ID Rev. F with parallel > >that's all of them, no floppy controllers unless one of these are one. >apparently the serial cards had a tape drive and modem attached, the >cable were >labeled as such. I've posted the pictures of the individual cards out of the >case, all but the bridge as I couldn't remove it. they are on this address: >http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pbboy/swtp/swtp2.htm > >Robert -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 10 20:24:17 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <3fb86423e4.423e43fb86@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <3AD3B241.6103AC7E@internet1.net> You are responding quite late in this thread. If you are so opposed to it, why are you propogating it so late in the cycle? Your line, "patriotic nationalistic US rubbish that has developed in this particular thread" is exactly what I was talking about in another post. It seems to me that the US is singled out quite a bit as being somehow bad, and offensive. Do you people think so ill of your own countries that you have to verbally attack another? Chad Fernandez Mcihgan, USA blacklord wrote: > For some of us, it actually costs money to d/load this crud, for > instance, where I am (rural remote in Oz for example) there are no > local ISP's, my nearest is an STD call away & they charge $3.79 an hour > for access, so I need to be in & out as quickly as possible. Ax > aresult, I'm very picky about what I subscribe too. I did *not* > subscribe to Classic Computers for this sort of patriotic nationalistic > US rubbish that has developed in this particular thread. From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Apr 10 20:38:31 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <29.132b197c.28050f98@aol.com> In a message dated Tue, 10 Apr 2001 7:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, THETechnoid@home.com writes: << I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server would accept (too large). >> I'll give it a shot... Commodore Vic-20 Commodore 16 2 Commodore 64's 3 Commodore 128's Commodore Plus/4 Apple II+ 4 Apple //e's 2 Apple IIc's Apple IIc+ Tandy TRS-80 MC-10 P200MMX PC (Linux) P133 PC (SCO OSRV) 2 HP 9000/730's (HP-UX 10.20) Sparcstation 1 (Linux) Sparcstation 2 (clone - wish I knew who actually made it) (Linux) Sparcstation 20 (Linux) Vaxstation 3100 m38 (NetBSD) 486dx50 (FreeBSD) Decstation 5000/240 (NetBSD) Decstation 5000/125 (NetBSD) 2 Personal Decstation 5000/33's (Maxine's) (NetBSD) 2 Personal Iris 4D/35's (Irix - dunno version yet - haven't installed OS and have 2 to choose from) TRS-80 Model 100 laptop (basic) Toshiba t2400ct laptop (Linux) Compaq Contura 400c laptop (Linux) Compaq lte5100 laptop (Linux) From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Apr 10 19:49:13 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <3fb86423e4.423e43fb86@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <03d901c0c221$3ad94240$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "blacklord" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 10:11 AM Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > For some of us, it actually costs money to d/load this crud, for > instance, where I am (rural remote in Oz for example) there are no > local ISP's, my nearest is an STD call away & they charge $3.79 an hour > for access, so I need to be in & out as quickly as possible. Where in Oz are you? Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From jss at ou.edu Tue Apr 10 20:42:32 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <986953352.3ad3b68837915@email.ou.edu> Quoting THETechnoid@home.com: > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > list server would accept (too large). Ha! Snort! Hee! That made me laugh. Here is my collection, or at least what it will be at the end of the summer (assuming every deal happens). Please keep in mind that I just started. DEC PDP-11/70 (picking up this summer) DEC PDP-11/44 (picking up this summer) DEC MicroPDP-11/23 (hopefully - *ahem* attention Jeffrey S. _Worley_) DEC TE16 (picking up this summer) DEC TS05 (picking up this summer) DEC RA81 (picking up this summer) CDC 9766 (picking up this summer) DEC LA120 (being shipped now) DEC VT102 (being shipped now) DEC VT220 Apple IIe Apple Disk II (2) Apple Imagewriter II Tandy 1000TX Tandy monitor Tandy DMP 132 printer As you can tell, my main interest is the PDP-11. The Apple and Tandy stuff was actually acquired by my garage-sale-maniac Aunt Patty. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 19:30:33 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Tom Uban wrote: > All of my Imlac displays have some amount of this disease, but not nearly > as bad as the one in your picture. I am planning on trying a test on one The Imlac PDS-1 I have has a similar problem, but not nearly as bad. Though it is itself in less than stellar shape. You can see it in the pictures on the Blinkenlights site I posted. > of mine if I cannot find a replacement tube. The test constists of building > an enclosure with a pan in the bottom in which I can soak the face of the > tube in acetone in order to disolve the resin which is between the face of > the actual tube and the plastic protection layer. If the two can be > separated in this way, then the plastic can be re-attached to the tube > with a new layer of resin. This design is similar to the process used to > hold camera lenses together as they are often made up of multiple layers > of glass. I have a friend who repairs antique cameras and he suggested this > approach. As someone else noted, it would not be safe to operate the tube > with out the protective layer, but I hope that with careful handling, it > can be repaired back to new condition. Wouldn't this require potentially harmful amounts of acetone? > The console in your picture is also different than that of the PDS-1. > You have a wood enclosure and mine has what I think is a fibreglass > enclosure. More importantly you have a knob and mine has some discrete > switches. The PDS-1 did not come with one so I have no basis for comparison, other than a photo I remember seeing either in a manual or on some website (maybe yours?) > The keyboard on my PDS-1 is detached, but is molded/styled to match the > display enclosure. Interesting on the memory. Of the different models > I have seen, the memory does seem to move around a lot from design to > design. Interesting...the terminal on my PDS-1 is one piece with the CRT. Mine is serial #12 :) > It would be great if you get the machine up and running for VCF 5.0! I > have been considering bringing my this year as well, so if we both do, > perhaps we can "network" them... That would be perfect, and would complete the exhibit as I intended it. > Do you have the prints that you need. I have prints for all of my > machines, but they may be different enough that they would not help > you. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. Yes, I do fortunately. Also, John Tinker was kind enough to send me his batch of documentation, which is mostly PDS-1D docs as well. Thanks, John...and I am planning to get your docs back to you at some point! :) > Your pictures have inspired me to put up a better set of images on my > site. I will try and do that tomorrow... Great! I'll be interested in checking them out. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 19:33:35 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Confirmed speakers for VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Also, Kevin Stumpf of the Nostalgic Technophile and author of the first > ever book on computer collecting, "A Guide to Collecting Computers and > Computer Collectibles". > > http://www.nostalgictechnophile.com Sorry, need to shamefully correct myself here. Haddock's book in 1992 was the first book that dealt with computer collecting (mostly as a price guide). Kevin's was the first to wax philosophic on the hobby though :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 10 19:37:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD3B241.6103AC7E@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Your line, "patriotic nationalistic US rubbish that has developed in > this particular thread" is exactly what I was talking about in another > post. It seems to me that the US is singled out quite a bit as being > somehow bad, and offensive. Do you people think so ill of your own > countries that you have to verbally attack another? To flog a dead horse and cause inevitable prolongation of this nonsense... Chad, you are actually really out of touch with the prevailing sentiment towards the US around the world. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Apr 10 21:24:23 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: In a message dated 01-04-10 21:49:17 EDT, you write: << Quoting THETechnoid@home.com: > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > list server would accept (too large). >> blech, I'm traveling and can't think of what I all have. check my list at: www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/ccidxa2z.htm From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Apr 10 21:35:01 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online In-Reply-To: <200104101551.KAA06116@opal.tseinc.com> from "classiccmp-digest" at Apr 10, 2001 10:51:08 AM Message-ID: <200104110235.WAA22578@drs-esg.com> > From: healyzh@aracnet.com > Chris Kennedy wrote: > > Yesterday's post brought four CDs filled with TIFFs of PDP-11 > > (and related) prints. They're available at: > > > > http://www.mainecoon.com/classiccmp > > Wow!!! Does anyone know of software to read these on UNIX or easily convert > them to PDF files? > The software I use to make my tiff files available as PDF will convert them. ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/c42pdf/ See readme file in the directory for how to convert. Redhat 6.1 binary is provided in tar in src directory. If you are using the binary you shouldn't need the pdflib files. I haven't found any Unix tiff readers that handle multipage files well. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 10 21:46:50 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Two additions to Collection Message-ID: <013c01c0c231$ac4d3160$94731fd1@default> Today I picked up a Leading Edge Technical Reference manual and diagnostics diskette at a thrift store in great shape with blank warranty card in jacket. Got a donation of a SPARCstation 2 with keyboard, mouse, special metal mousepad, 19" color monitor, external hard drive (two in the case), and all the cables. The unit fires up and is loaded but the battery is dead. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 10 22:01:27 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Wanted: Atari 800 References: <20010410230858.OZXS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <01d501c0c233$b77cbd60$94731fd1@default> I will keep my eyes open they go for 2 to 5 dollars at the thrift here in the Twincities. I will pick up one and contact you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 6:12 PM Subject: Wanted: Atari 800 > Anyone have an Atari 800 or three they want to get rid of? I don't have > one and want one. Have nearly no money but will trade Atari peripheral > for it. 1050, I'd even part with an 850 or my P:R: Connection for one. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 10 22:08:07 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <29.132b197c.28050f98@aol.com> Message-ID: <001e01c0c234$a3092f70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) > In a message dated Tue, 10 Apr 2001 7:16:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, THETechnoid@home.com writes: > > << I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > would accept (too large). > > >> This is what I've collected in the last year IBM XT - The first to start the collection. 56 cents it has the original receipt from MIT, printer, manuals, disks, Upgraded RAM... XT CLONE - my first that I bought after working on IBM 1130 and Vaccine 286 clone I've a few that I have running DOS and minx 386 I put linux on this when it still had 2 meg of RAM Packard Bell 486 IBM ambra 486 Dell 166 -Picked this up to do a linux demo, included a SCSI card and CD burner Dell Dimension XPS D266 - my main machine COMPAQ 386 This was left at my desk on day Compaq luggable Compaq Portable II - the next edition of the luggable Compaq LTS 286 - and another try by Compaq lunch Box - found this in the back of a garage during a garage sale Tandy 2800 Toshiba 2400 APPLE ][ 2 - recent addition, came with manuals paddles and z80 card. Apple IIe - this was dumped as a repair depo Apple II Gs Apple Macintosh (M00001) MAC Classic Mac classic plus MAC SE MAC SE fdhd MAC SE superdrive MAC II Mac IIsi MAC IIci Mac LC II Mac LC III Mac Quadra 650 - this one looks like it's been to hell, but it still runs NEXT CUBE - found thsi at a scrap yard for $75 with 2 monitors and 2 printers, I left the scanner because it didn't have a next logo on it. Sparc 1+ - found abandoned in a condo meeting room, the battery seems to be dead DEC VAXstation II/GPX - this is still missing the cable to connect video, keyboard and mouse, came with the wall of manuals and several Ultrix tapes. DEC VAXstation 3100 - this one boots but keeps returning to the login prompt DEC VT330 DEC LA124 - has the acoustic cups on the side and roll of paper for output Ampex Commodore 8032 - came with 3 boxes of disks and manuals Commodore 64 - Amiga 2000 - Amstrad PC1640 - found the manual for this at a garage sale this weekend AT&T 7300 Atari 520 LEGO Mindstorms RCX 1.0 TELXON PTC-701 Palm IIIx I have several spare clones XT and 286 and a few spare compact MAC's. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Tue Apr 10 22:20:18 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <3AD3CD72.722F1154@heathers.stdio.com> Holy crap.... Heres one rooms worth, SUN 15 Sparc LX's 12 Sparc IPC 1 Sparc 10 5 Sparc 4 1 3/110 1 3/50 -------------- Compaq Proliant 2500 Proliant 5000 Aero LTE 475 Compaq luggable Compaq II luggable --------------- Apple 4 Centris 610 3 Quadra 660 2 Power PC 6100 5 IIe 1 II 6 LC575 4 LC550 1 5260/100 1 Centris 650 7 various older B+W Macs Lisa ------------------ DEC PDP11/23+ micro PDP11/23 micro PDP11/53 PDP11/34 VAXmate VAXstation 3100 VAXstation 4000 VLC VAXstation 3800 VAXstation I 8 VAXstation II 2 VAXstation 2000 VAX 11/750 VAX 11/730 VAX 11/725 "I'm missing my RC25" VXT 2000 Straight -8 2 DECstation 5000/25 5 Grid laptops 4 Dell laptops You don't want to know whats in the garage..... Brian. > In a message dated 01-04-10 21:49:17 EDT, you write: > > << Quoting THETechnoid@home.com: > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > > list server would accept (too large). >> From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Apr 10 22:33:46 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbo x> References: <20010410221945.MXAH1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server >would accept (too large). I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than quantity after all: - i432 development system - the original 4004 mask set - IBM 5100 prototype - Apple I (qty 6) - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this stuff in the garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for some calculators or something smaller. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 10 22:36:01 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <001e01c0c234$a3092f70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: <29.132b197c.28050f98@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410203139.033b5170@mail.zipcon.net> Lessee :) Morrow MD-3 Macintosh SE Mac II cx (2) Mac Quadra 800 Powemac 8500 (2) Powemac 9500 (2) Sparcstation IPC (3) Sparcstation 2 (2 or 3) Sparcstation 5 (4) Sparcstation 10 486 based laptop P5-90 asus clone tower Dual Proc P-2 266 server Dual proc P-3 650 server P-3 650 desktop P-3 550 desktop Compaq p-3 500 p-2 350 clones (2) Dec Rainbow toshiba pentium laptops (3) Compaq fast-narrow SCSI Array and i'm probably missing a whole heck of a lot of machines in the list. From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Apr 10 22:41:32 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: EDO Dimms for older compaq equipment. Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410204019.02df05f0@mail.zipcon.net> anyone here have need of said beasts, I have 3 EDO dimms from a compaq system, I think it was wither a 3000 or 5000 Ppro server that they came from. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 10 22:55:32 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD3CD72.722F1154@heathers.stdio.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410205243.01e5bcb0@208.226.86.10> >VAX 11/725 "I'm missing my RC25" Wow, I didn't think anyone used RC25s anymore. I put a couple of carts up on ebay with the 11/725 diagnostics and VMS 3.5 distro. They came with what I thought was an 11/730 but turned out to be the chassis of an 11/730 filled with rat dung. The disks however were still sealed in their bags and seemed to come through unscathed (at least the glass "I've been dropped" indicators are still clear) --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 10 23:07:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Cheap MicroFiche scanner Message-ID: <200104110407.VAA10012@shell1.aracnet.com> Does anyone know anything about the "Image Mouse"? The price looks to start at $2500, and will scan a "page" in less than a second! It sound like it would be fairly easy to scan in a page or two of fiche when needed with one of these! Zane > >http://www.zytrondfw.com/imagemouse/imagemouse.html > > > >http://www.eyecom.com/MousePlus.html > > > >http://infographix.com/Microfilm_Scanner-image-mouse.htm > > > >http://www.librarystoreltd.com/imagemouse2.shtml > > > >http://www.microequip.com/newprod.htm From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Apr 10 23:09:41 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Dongle, invented by Don Gall? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've heard 'dongle' refer to the parallel port security keys way before laptops an PCMCIA cards, so I would say fiction... He may have glommed onto the word, but did not invent int. clint On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >3c589d needs the 10b2/10bT dongle - or at least mine does :-) > > Tis true, according to the great reference source, Ebay, amazing what > people will look up for a cable etc. that is going to sell for few bucks at > best. > > BTW While talking to someone at the Santee swapmeet, he told me the origine > of the word dongle is from the person who invented the short adapter > cables, Don Gall. Fact or fiction? > > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 10 19:49:12 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: EDO Dimms for older compaq equipment. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410204019.02df05f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010411044802.HUCJ963.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:41:32 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Geoff Reed > Subject: EDO Dimms for older compaq equipment. > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > anyone here have need of said beasts, I have 3 EDO dimms from a compaq > system, I think it was wither a 3000 or 5000 Ppro server that they came from. Also some odd bit older-newer Macs that requires EDO DIMMs, recent Macs use standard SDRAM stuff. Cheers, Wizard From ernestls at home.com Tue Apr 10 23:52:08 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <001e01c0c234$a3092f70$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: I don't have a ton of room to set my systems up for display/usage so I don't have a huge quantity of vintage computers but the systems that I have are extremely complete, with all of those hard to find parts which make an ordinary system into something unusual. In other words, if there was an OEM or aftermarket part that was good to have (at the time) I have it. Amstrad 1512dd Acorn BBC Master Acorn BBC Compact, with Cub Acorn Electron, with Plus 1 and 3 Apple II+ Apple IIe -my strongest area... TONS of A2 stuff. Apple IIgs Franklin 1200 -missing the H10 hard drive. Laser 128ex Mac Quadra 605 Tandy 2000hd -my one weak area... no software. Tandy 1000hx Radio Shack CoCo 2 Commodore 64 HP 150 -sick amount of original software/manuals HP 110 HP 110+ ATT 6300 ATT 6300+ -with Unix 5r2 ATT 6300wgs Compaq Portable Morrow MD3 (with Televideo 950 terminal)and Morrow MP100 printer Olympia Olytext 20 -I had never heard of it either but it's kinda cool(CP/M) I'm still looking for the elusive Pineapple... anyone have one for sale? Ernest From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 10 19:58:08 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <20010411045658.HWME963.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Crazy large # of Macs collector, wow. My very modest collection: Mac 1 x C610/AAUI modified to 28MHz on 68040-25 (not bogus LC040) 1 x Mac II my most recent find, beat all of my for OLDest machine. 1 x LC III o/c'ed to 33 1 x Performa 466. Coming: PowerMac 7100 barebones looking for parts to build up this PM. Offering some of my collection where noted to fund this power Mac rebuild. Ebay sucks sometimes especially when buying US cash with worthless canadian funds. Peecees: 1 x Asus P2B rev1.04 PII 350 1 x Asus P5A w/ bastardized P5A-B bios running unlocked P55C 2.5x100MHz as bench pc to test parts. 1 x Asus A7pro w/ duron 800, mini-vroom! 1 x SLT 286 w/ power brick and 1024K ram module installed, all working to trade for Mac parts, no battery. 1 x DECpc XL 466d2 unused, empty shell except for PSU, motherboard, floppy and cpu 486 card. 1 x Aero to trade for power mac parts, request for details on Aero. 1 x TP701. PS/2s 1 x P75 1 x 70-Axx if u don't know what this suffix means, it's one hotshot 386DX in small desktop box IBM ever made or since in PS/2 era. 1 x complete base 90 XP w/ 256K cache, dx 33 complex w/ latest 4GB support bios, 64MB, stock scsi card w/ original scsi cable (!!), looking to trade for PowerMac 6,7,8100 series parts. Best to ship this 90 in parts minus chassis, too heavy to ship at reasonably cost. All that in a 20 x 18 bedroom and all other junk and still have space to walk and sleep comfortably. (!!) Note, if anybody have 6100, 7100, 8100 PM, all the removeable parts like ROM simm, PDS cards (HPV etc) and cache stick except for some items are all same. That 7100 needs a rom stick or complete 7100 motherboard w/ rom stick. Also if anybody have 1MB HPV card to trade for my parts. Cheers, Wizard From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 00:06:12 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> from Jim Battle at "Apr 10, 1 08:33:46 pm" Message-ID: <200104110506.WAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > >would accept (too large). > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > quantity after all: > > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) Poop. And I thought I was intriguing for a fit of topological legerdomain by converting ENIAC to run from within the dining room closet. What the Fire Marshal doesn't know, won't hurt him (but could be responsible for property damage). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you don't have a nasty obituary you probably didn't matter. -- F. Dyson - From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Apr 11 00:05:42 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Apr 10, 2001 07:29:27 pm" Message-ID: <200104110507.f3B57C103484@bg-tc-ppp490.monmouth.com> > 68 pin should be SCSI-2 I think It's usually wide scsi... but DEC used it for some wierd purpose on non-wide stuff with their own pinout. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 00:16:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at "Apr 10, 1 10:24:23 pm" Message-ID: <200104110516.WAA11548@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > > list server would accept (too large). I'm merely small potatoes: 2 VIC-20s 2 flat C128s 2 128DCRs 2 Tomy Tutors 2 Apple IIgs 2 Atari XEGS 2 C64s 2 HP95LXes 2 Mac IIci 2 Mac IIsi Mac SE/30 Mac Plus NEC 8201A Tandy 200 SX-64 TI Compact Computer 40 HP-15C calculator (close enough ;-) Tandy PC-4 Power Mac 7300 (doesn't really count) Toshiba Satellite T1950 486DX/40 (doesn't really count either) Solbourne S4000DX a NeXT, just as soon as Curt tells me where to send the green :-) KIM-1 Timex Sinclair 1000 Plus/4 Apple Network Server 500 (co-loed at PLNU but will move north soon, doesn't really count either ;-) Data General One laptop plus all the disk drives, monitors and stuff. Game systems? Just a VCS and a Sylvania Intellivision. Maybe a Dreamcast so I can run NetBSD on it! Yeah! The thing that's most intriguing is that I can fit everything in 610 sq ft., plus me living in that apartment too :-) But then, no roommates, no wife, ... :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Enfield Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 00:20:28 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from Ernest at "Apr 10, 1 09:52:08 pm" Message-ID: <200104110520.WAA11606@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I'm still looking for the elusive Pineapple... anyone have one for sale? Whassat? I want an Apricot or a PCjr, myself. I have the original King's Quest, just need to play it on a PCjr so I can hear how the music sounded. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my personalities each need therapy." ----- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 00:35:27 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104110506.WAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Apr 10, 1 10:06:12 pm" Message-ID: <200104110535.WAA11028@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I just realised that I forgot the GRiD 1530. I'd love to get one of the pen GRiDs, though -- this thing is too bulky to be useful to me. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Computers aren't intelligent. They just think they are. -------------------- From ernestls at home.com Wed Apr 11 00:41:04 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:06 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104110520.WAA11606@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >> I'm still looking for the elusive Pineapple... anyone have one for sale? >Whassat? Ah, the Pineapple was the first Apple II clone, and it was a beauty. It reminds me of a Franklin 1000 -wide and sturdy. If I have my story correct, these were built from kits which were shipped in individually from Taiwan. They tried to send a container load but Apple caught a whiff of it and got a court order to put a stop to that. I've seen one, and it was really a beautiful computer, especially compared to some of those cheap Apple II clones that came later on. >I want an Apricot or a PCjr, myself. I have the original King's Quest, just >need to play it on a PCjr so I can hear how the music sounded. Don't you love those prorietary programs. You do know that there are versions for other, easier to find systems. E. From dave at ruske.net Wed Apr 11 00:43:04 2001 From: dave at ruske.net (Dave Ruske) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website Message-ID: <001e01c0c24a$47b69390$ca57cfa9@druskersi> I've been following this list for a little while, and compared to some folks I guess I'm not much of a collector. Honestly, I've never had to give any thought as to whether the joists in my house would support a computer! But a few weeks back I started cleaning my basement, and I came across some lovingly wrapped circuit boards and stacks of papers and newsletters dating back to my high school days. My old 1802-based Netronics ELF II and the ACE (Association of Computer Experimenters) 1802 system that followed it survived the years; they still run fine. It occurred to me that in the twenty-some years since I built those systems, I've seldom had more fun with a computer. Meanwhile I'd been looking for an excuse to learn a little about programming for the Palm OS, and a funny idea struck me. The result was TinyELF, an ELF emulator for Palm handhelds. Naturally, I thought if I released such a thing through PalmGear.com people would have questions, and a website would be a natural way to deal with them. So I threw together a website, http://www.cosmacelf.com My little idea taught me a bit about the Palm OS, but at this point I've put enough "spare" time and energy into this project to really appreciate my wife's patient good humor. That basement *still* isn't clean! Oh well, judging by the posts on this list, I know I don't have to give a lengthy explanation as to why I did this --- you guys get it. I'm posting to this list for two reasons. First, while I have some knowledge and literature on the original Popular Electronics ELF, the Netronics ELF II and the RCA VP-111, I know substantially less about RCA's VP 3301, the Quest Electronics (Super?) ELF, the DREAM 6800, the ETI-660 and the Comx 35... all 1802-based machines as I understand. If anyone could give me some accurate summary information of these machines and what made them unique, I'd be quite grateful. If you browse through the History section of cosmacelf.com you'll see that I'm looking for a more complete description of these 1802 micros. I'd also appreciate email if you notice that I've blown any details in my history or left out any links of merit. Second, I thought that perhaps someone on this list might be interested in playing with the TinyELF emulator itself. It's not nearly as lovely as Bill Richman's ray-traced gem for the desktop, but for the Palm platform I'm fairly happy with it. You can download the emulator for free at http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=13929 Thanks, and enjoy! Dave Ruske dave@ruske.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/63ea3a81/attachment.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 01:51:02 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <006301c0c253$c691ec60$1498b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> My modest assemblage; mostly portables and all-in-ones because I like to put my car in the garage: Apple Lisa 2 Commodore SX-64 Compaq Portable Corona ATP Gridpad 1910 HP-85A HP-85B HP Integral HP 9826 HP 9920 IBM 5100 IBM 5110 IBM System 23 IMSAI VDP-40 IMSAI VDP-44 Kaypro II Kaypro 4 Kaypro 10 Mac Portable Osborne Executive Osborne OCC-1 Panasonic Executive Partner Panasonic Sr. Partner Sanyo MBC-550 Sanyo MBC-775 Tektronics TC-2000 Televideo TPC-1 Televideo 803H TI CC-40 TI Portable Professional TRS-80 4P . . . and a bunch of peripherals, manuals and software that go with. -W From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 02:17:02 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008901c0c257$79ea10a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a particular > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step) and RS (reset). I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and they're working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick, but what would look good. > -ethan > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 02:27:54 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <001301c0c202$371637e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <009001c0c258$fef12120$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 2:07 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > Not only is it a matrix, but it appears that the matrix scan connections are > available at the expansion connector. They are. I've tested the "broken" keys this way, and they're all functional. (*Whew!*) :-) Because the KIM uses a pair of 6530s, which are nigh impossible to find anywhere at any price, and there are two different flavors of them out there that are not interchangable, this is good news. In fact, 'till I read your message the thought that it might not be the keypad had never (*SHUDDER*) even entered my mind. I could see mounting the whole KIM-1 unit in a box with a lucite or red-filter cut-out for the 7-segment display and a keypad near-flush with the top above the "real" keypad. That would have the advantage of being a place to put the filtered power source and protect the unit from dust and further wear and tear until/if ever a replacement keypad is found. But still I would like a "nice looking" keypad, or at least "not amateurish". So does anyone know where one might find a "take a bunch of keycaps and fit into a plastic grid to make your own keypad array" sort of kit? Membrane vs. standard, 5x4, 4x6, whatever, as long as you can manually wire them into the required 3x7 array? :) -- Ross > It should be quite straightforward to > deterine whether there's a faulty/inermittent connection and to isolate it. > It's just a matter of the associated tedium. That was why I suggested that the > on-board keypad could be replaced with an off-board one connected in a similar > fashion to the applicaton connector. That will "buy time" to find a suitable > replacement, and it will provide a replacement to use in the meantime, also > allowing the owner to regain confidence in the remaining functions on the board. > Moreover, it allows for the possiblility that there's a problem with the board > itself, i.e. intermittent trace, etc. If the external keypad connected to the > expansion connector doesn't work consistently either, it suggests there's a > problem with the board itself. Likewise, if the problem presently on the board > doesn't go away when wires are soldered in parallel with the existing > matrix-scanner device connections, presumably a PIA or VIA, then it's likely > that the device itself may have been damaged, though I have a bit of trouble > imagining a circumstance that it would become intermittent if its solder > connections are sound. > > What's most likely, however, is that the connections or traces have been damaged > over years of pressing on the keypad and thereby flexing the board. The simple > way to get around that is to solder on the fewer than two-dozen wires used to > hook up the keypad and expansion connector, and proceed from there. > > Ideally, one would generate a test routine for the KIM that would echo via a > parallel port, say, the value associated with the scan of the keypad. This > would be monitored by an external PC. That same PC would drive a matrix of SPST > relays wired in the same matrix as the keypad and attached, in one instance to > the physical switch connections on the underside of the KIM-1's keypad, and in > another at the expansion connector. > > After running it over a long time, e.g. a day or weekend, and logging, in the > PC, the time and date of each failure, one could then proceed to perturb the > circuit board, i.e. push on the keypad to see if it causes the externally > generated switch closures to be misread or missed entirely. If the board works > perfectly when stimulated externally over a long period of time, and if it > doesn't fail when perturbed, it's likely one or more of the switches is worn > out. That's when a different keypad becomes attractive. The KIM-1 Keypad was > never a thing of beauty or of any technical appeal. for purposes of preserving > the device, I'd say it's best to look for an exact replacement, in whatever form > it has to be obtained, and use an external keypad attached to the expansion > connector in order to retain use of the KIM-1. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a > particular > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > > > -ethan > > > > > > ===== > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 02:31:02 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> <008101c0c1d7$fea799a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00a601c0c259$6ee8c3c0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:04 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > Funny you should ask. I studied the circuit in detail about two years back, and verified that closing the right pair of application connector pins caused the "broken" keys to register. I got busy, put the KIM away in a box and forgot about it until recently. > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger Merchberger" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:12 PM > Subject: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: > > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > > [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] > > > > >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > > >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > > > [ snip ] > > > > >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one of > > >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > > > > > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and disassemble > > >it to clean the contacts? > > > > I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my > > basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and I > > don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the > > next couple days if that'd help... > > > > Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... > > > > [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... > > > > HTH, > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > -- > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 02:32:31 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware References: <3AD24CE2.1B5F0D94@mindless.com> <005501c0c1d7$206cbb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00b301c0c259$a3842c00$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware > Having made and sold a combination backplane/extender board for a bus based on > this connector (2 x 22 @ 0.157" pitch) , I still have a few of the things lying > about, hence haven't had to look for them in the stores. Nevertheless, I do see > them from time to time at various surplus outlets. Here in the > Denver-Boulder-Longmont area, the surplus outlets are down to just a couple, > namely Gateway electronics and J. B. Saunders Electonics, and, at last check, > both had a few of them in stock. I doubt you will have trouble finding them > wherever you are. Silly-con Valley. I got a lead on a local computer surplus outlet. I'll be bopping over there for lunchtime tomorrow. :) Thanks for all your support. -- Ross > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:59 PM > Subject: Where to find 44pin edge cards/ 6502 d/l freeware > > > > Used to be, you could go to Radio Shock and purchase one of those > > solder-yourself 44-pin edgecards that mate with the KIM-4 expansion > > board. I'm thinking one way around my dead keyboard issue which > > also solves my desire for expansion would be to add a CPLD > > decoder, 32K SRAM, 32K ROM (with holes around the 6530s > > and remapping new patched monitor into $1800-$1FFF), and 6551 > > UART/MAX232 combo to input code and d/l intel hex. (The cassette > > interface on poor KIM is dead, too.) > > > > By the way, if anyone's interested, I have a generic 6502 Intel Hex > > program downloader program that allows you to assemble and directly > > download programs from the development PC into your SBC. > > It's freeware so have at it if anyone finds it useful. > > > > It's at: > > http://www.6502.org/source/monitors/intelhex/intelhex.htm > > > > > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 02:33:49 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids References: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <004401c0c1d6$1b7098e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <00ba01c0c259$d28fef20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:51 AM Subject: Re: Sellam's Hemmeroids > You have GOT to get a spell-checker! --- Wondering if it isn't rather anal-retentive to worry about the spelling of hemmoroids? > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM > Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > > > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > President > > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > > 30 Greenwood Rd. > > Asheville, NC 28803 > > 828-277-5959 > > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > > THETechnoid@home.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 10 23:45:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Citrisolv? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: Speaking of solvents, anybody have experience with commercial grade Citrisolv? (D-limene) One of my friends gave me 2.5 gals of the (I am assuming) 20% commercial concentration, and it looks real NASTY (much thicker than motor oil). His only warning was not to get it on paint I want to keep. A new pair of nitrile gloves is a no brainer, and the fumes actually smell nice, but I am not entirely sure how I want to proceed. I already have plenty of weak consumer spray bottles of similar stuff, so I don't plan to waste any of it highly diluted, maybe just as a 5:1 or 10:1 so it doesn't eat through the bottle too fast. Things I plan to clean; a batch of gummy old mac floppy drives, general dirty computer stuff, and maybe a few spots on the carpet. Any experienced people have some tips? From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 11 01:57:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Jim Battle wrote: > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > quantity after all: > > - i432 development system > - the original 4004 mask set > - IBM 5100 prototype > - Apple I (qty 6) > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 I hate to brag, but my collection includes the ghost of Charles Babbage who roams around my house at night. I think perhaps he's attached to the original portrait of himself painted by Lady Ada Lovelace hanging in my living room. How he managed to follow it all the way across the Atlantic is anyone's guess. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 11 02:08:43 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website In-Reply-To: <001e01c0c24a$47b69390$ca57cfa9@druskersi> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Dave Ruske wrote: > Naturally, I thought if I released such a thing through PalmGear.com > people would have questions, and a website would be a natural way to > deal with them. So I threw together a website, > http://www.cosmacelf.com Terrific website! In your honor, I created a new section in the VCF Link Library for RCA: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl#rca Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 11 02:12:05 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <009001c0c258$fef12120$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > But still I would like a "nice looking" > keypad, or at least "not amateurish". > So does anyone know where one might find > a "take a bunch of keycaps and fit into a plastic > grid to make your own keypad array" sort of kit? Maybe you can find an old calculator with a suitable keypad and cannibalize it? Or perhaps some old PC numeric keypad? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Tue Apr 10 23:46:22 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: HP 9000 520 In-Reply-To: <200104091706.f39H6FX16157@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 10:06:15AM -0700 References: <8d.4df24cf.280095be@aol.com> <3.0.1.16.20010408131439.3b9fbc74@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20010409072841.A2202@sd160.local> <200104091706.f39H6FX16157@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20010411074622.A186@sd160.local> On Mon, Apr 09, 2001 at 10:06:15AM -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: > Jarkko Teppo wrote: > > The second machine doesn't want to boot, halts with "Fever finstrates than > > expected". I really haven't had the time to investigate yet. > > A "finstrate" is a board (any board, CPU, IOP or memory) in the > processor card cage. What's in there? I'll check during easter holidays, but from what I remember it was just CPU, IOP + 5-7MB memory. I'm also planning on doing an install if I get it working with 5.1 + WIN/TCP (finally found the tape!). I've gotta do it fast before my last 9144-type drive stops working. I *really* have to figure out a way to fix those rollers, I have a 9144+9145+9142 completely broken and a 7974 that's about to lose the capstan. I still have working 35401 and a 7946. There's a thread about a 7974 9-track and gooey capstans at http://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?S2=hp3000-l&q=7974+capstan One proposed fix was "Red Devil" vacuum cleaner belts. -- jht From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 04:33:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104110520.WAA11606@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200104110520.WAA11606@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Hey Cameron, I've got an extra PCjr cpu unit I could send you. Jeff > > I'm still looking for the elusive Pineapple... anyone have one for sale? > >Whassat? > >I want an Apricot or a PCjr, myself. I have the original King's Quest, just >need to play it on a PCjr so I can hear how the music sounded. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: >http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- "I'd love to go out with you, but my personalities each need >therapy." ----- -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 04:36:49 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >I want an Apricot or a PCjr, myself. I have the original King's Quest, just >>need to play it on a PCjr so I can hear how the music sounded. > >Don't you love those prorietary programs. You do know that there are >versions for other, easier to find systems. At the time of it's, and the Tandy 1000 series that cloned it, the PCjr had nicer graphics and sound than the XT clones of the period. Quite a large number of games took advantage of the additional features. My only gripe about the PCjr are the proprietary connectors for everything on it's rear panel. It's kinda cool running Lotus 1-2-3 off of dual cartridges though! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Apr 11 04:28:29 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: What is the current Teledisk version #... Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411022758.00a725f0@mail.zipcon.net> Digging through my old disks, I've turned up 2.23 From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Apr 11 04:29:52 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Docs for Morrow MD3 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411022924.00a75b20@mail.zipcon.net> anyone ahve the documentation for the MD3? PDF format would be great.... From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Apr 11 05:50:20 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410205243.01e5bcb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD436EC.EA3FB96A@heathers.stdio.com> Chuck, I remember not too long ago those carts were bringing some good dollars. I used to have quite a few but I traded/sold a few to Shannon Hoskins. (I think it was Pacific Data) for some other things I needed. I missed out on a RC25 on Ebay last year when I was on vacation. It went pretty cheap. The 725 sitting here is in perfect condition except for the big hole in the front. Brian. Chuck McManis wrote: > >VAX 11/725 "I'm missing my RC25" > > Wow, I didn't think anyone used RC25s anymore. I put a couple of carts up > on ebay with the 11/725 diagnostics and VMS 3.5 distro. They came with what > I thought was an 11/730 but turned out to be the chassis of an 11/730 > filled with rat dung. The disks however were still sealed in their bags and > seemed to come through unscathed (at least the glass "I've been dropped" > indicators are still clear) > > --Chuck -- ?????? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Apr 11 07:42:56 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: What is the current Teledisk version #... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010411022758.00a725f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010411074256.263f952a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:28 AM 4/11/01 -0700, you wrote: >Digging through my old disks, I've turned up 2.23 > > AFIK that's the latest version. Bruce made a group purchase last year and I have one of those copies. The opening screen says version 2.22 but the menu says version 2.23. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Apr 11 07:37:17 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Citrisolv? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010411073717.3cb7d876@mailhost.intellistar.net> I believe Citrisolv is what's in Goo-Gone and some of the other similar solvents. The stuff works great for removing labels, ink and the like. I've never had enough of it to use it for general cleaning but I expect that it will work well. Two things that I've found that help when using Goo-Gone are (1) warm the object to be cleaned before putting on the solvent (2) after applying Goo-Gone to the area to be cleaned cover it with tin foil to keep it from drying out. Joe At 09:45 PM 4/10/01 -0700, you wrote: >Speaking of solvents, anybody have experience with commercial grade >Citrisolv? (D-limene) > >One of my friends gave me 2.5 gals of the (I am assuming) 20% commercial >concentration, and it looks real NASTY (much thicker than motor oil). His >only warning was not to get it on paint I want to keep. A new pair of >nitrile gloves is a no brainer, and the fumes actually smell nice, but I am >not entirely sure how I want to proceed. I already have plenty of weak >consumer spray bottles of similar stuff, so I don't plan to waste any of it >highly diluted, maybe just as a 5:1 or 10:1 so it doesn't eat through the >bottle too fast. > >Things I plan to clean; a batch of gummy old mac floppy drives, general >dirty computer stuff, and maybe a few spots on the carpet. Any experienced >people have some tips? > > > From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Apr 11 06:34:02 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: In a message dated 4/11/01 1:44:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu writes: > I just realised that I forgot the GRiD 1530. I'd love to get one of the > pen GRiDs, though -- this thing is too bulky to be useful to me. > > -- That reminds me - I forgot to list my GRiDcase 3 as well.. It has 2 10 meg hard drives, a battery, a charger, a power pack and the original GRiD laptop bag :-) -Linc Fessenden A good magician never reveals his secret; the unbelievable trick becomes simple and obvious once it is explained. So too with LINUX! The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. From jde at alpha1.net Wed Apr 11 07:18:32 2001 From: jde at alpha1.net (John Elkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: CPT 8525... what is it? Message-ID: <000601c0c281$8d768b60$0050fea9@jdehp4550z> If anyone knows anything about the Panasonic KX-D4910 portable data terminal please let me know. I would also like to know what emulation can be used like it. I still need to use one of these to program an older phone system. Thanks. jde@alpha1.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/8f33b677/attachment.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 07:20:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: What is the current Teledisk version #... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010411074256.263f952a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: If it's the same teledisk that Sydex sold to NTI here's what their website states: "Because this software can be used to defeat software copy protection, NTI restricts the sale of the software to government agencies, law enforcement agencies and Fortune 1000 corporations who have a demonstrated need for the software. It is not sold to the general public. The current release is version 2.22 and the GSA Product Number is TD2.22. " > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:43 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: What is the current Teledisk version #... > > > At 02:28 AM 4/11/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Digging through my old disks, I've turned up 2.23 > > > > > > AFIK that's the latest version. Bruce made a group purchase last year > and I have one of those copies. The opening screen says version 2.22 but > the menu says version 2.23. > > Joe > From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Apr 11 07:24:34 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <3AD348D7.799D8548@kcinter.net> References: <3AD348D7.799D8548@kcinter.net> Message-ID: What H8 stuff do you have? Are you intersted in parting with any of it? I have an h8 that I have no s/w, no schematics, no docs or anything else for. thanks. -Bob >Hi Mike, >Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc >for the H8. > >Bill >elecdata1 > >"McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > > > Mike > > mmcfadden@cmh.edu bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 11 07:30:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > would accept (too large). Not too much too boast about. Of course, I'm AFAIK limiting myself to stuff more than ten years old. Amiga 500 (several) Amiga 2000A Atari 520STM (several) Atari 520STFM (several) Atari 1040STFM (several) Atari 520STE (upgraded to 4 MB) Commodore 64 (several different models) Commodore 128 Commodore 128D (several) Dragon 32 Goldstar HC-200 MSX (broken) Spectravideo 728 MSX Sinclair ZX Spectrum DECstation 5000/200 Personal DECsystem 5000/25 (broken) Atari 2600 (several, different models) 2600 clone, 32 built-in games Mattel Intellivison 3 Philips G7000 SEGA Mastersystem Nintendo NES =) SEGA Megadrive Pong "PC5" consoles (several, different models) I really think that's it. If anyone's interested in any trades or would like to bestow equipment upon me, please mail. =) From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Apr 11 07:47:00 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Free PDP-11 equipment: [3 PDP-11s in working order] in UK Message-ID: Anybody in the UK want a PDP-11? This message was sent to the Sun Rescue list (please contact sender at BA directly). ----- Forwarded message from "Aristocleous, Aristoteles O" ----- Date: 10 Apr 2001 11:06:47 Z From: "Aristocleous, Aristoteles O" Subject: 3 PDP-11s in working order Hi We are about to throw out 3 PDP-11s, with tape drives, which were in working order when they were powered off, together with some Versatect Printers. They should all still be in working order. We are based at London Heathrow, UK. If you are interested, or know of anyone who would be interested in these machines (in order to save them from the tip), please let me know as soon as possible. If you do want them, I think you will need a tail lift truck, and you must remove ALL the equipment in one visit. You (or the person who wants it) must also agree not to make any BA programs or BA data which can found or recovered from the machines available to anyone, or use it in any way or for any purpose. We have a lift which is capable of carrying the PDPs down to ground level. Best Regards Aris. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21st century air travel http://www.britishairways.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Apr 11 08:16:25 2001 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: Let's see... As far as complete systems About 10 or 12 games systems. Including Commodores, TI 99s, and Ataris. About 12 or 15 portables. Including several each Compaqs, Kaypros, Osbournes, and Panasonics. Several generic S100 crates Numerous STD bus systems with spares Misc Keithley and OPTO 22 controllers IBM /36 with 2 terminals and printer HP 3000/42 mini HP 3000/37 mini HP 9000/832 mini (2 of these) HP 9000/842S mini (space heater) 7 short racks of HPIB drives for above minis 2 HP 9 track tape drives 2 HP large HPIB drives with removable media (forgot nomenclature) 2 HP 85s and 3 other HP desktops (forgot nomenclature) 2 HP cabinets with HPIB tape/disk combos (forgot nomenclature) 72" rack with 8 PCs (486s and 586s). 10 or 12 HP, Televideo, and Link terminals. Numerous generic PCs Plus one bedroom and an entire garage FULL of incomplete systems and assorted "stuff". Steve PS: I'm pretty sure Joe has more than that just on his back porch! >Amiga 500 (several) >Amiga 2000A >Atari 520STM (several) >Atari 520STFM (several) >Atari 1040STFM (several) >Atari 520STE (upgraded to 4 MB) >Commodore 64 (several different models) >Commodore 128 >Commodore 128D (several) >Dragon 32 >Goldstar HC-200 MSX (broken) >Spectravideo 728 MSX >Sinclair ZX Spectrum >DECstation 5000/200 >Personal DECsystem 5000/25 (broken) >Atari 2600 (several, different models) >2600 clone, 32 built-in games >Mattel Intellivison 3 >Philips G7000 >SEGA Mastersystem >Nintendo NES =) >SEGA Megadrive >Pong "PC5" consoles (several, different models) > >I really think that's it. > >If anyone's interested in any trades or would like to bestow equipment >upon me, please mail. =) > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From bill at cs.scranton.edu Wed Apr 11 08:25:33 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: EDO Dimms for older compaq equipment. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010410204019.02df05f0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Geoff Reed wrote: > anyone here have need of said beasts, I have 3 EDO dimms from a compaq > system, I think it was wither a 3000 or 5000 Ppro server that they came from. I guess that depends on price. I can use them, but I doubt I can afford them unless the cost is only shipping. :-( bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Wed Apr 11 08:37:48 2001 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! Message-ID: Great work, Curt. If there are any odd parts left over I still need a couple of internal hard drive brackets, 3 mice (non-ADB), and 2 mono monitor cables for the slabs I'm restoring. Regards, Arlen Michaels > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt Vendel [SMTP:curt@atari-history.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 2:16 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: The NeXT's have been saved!!! > > Hi Everyone, > > Just got back from Philly about 10 mins ago, the SUV is loaded to the > gills with Next Turbo slabs, some laser printers, monitors, keyboard, > mice, etc.... I have to sort through everything, and get everything > matched up and organized. <> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/2585a293/attachment.html From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Wed Apr 11 08:37:48 2001 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer Message-ID: Somewhere I've got a ram card that's labelled Headstart Explorer. It's got a plastic cover over it so it looks kind of like a memory cartridge. Do you see a slot where it would plug in? Let me know if you need it. Arlen Michaels > -----Original Message----- > From: bill claussen [SMTP:elecdata@kcinter.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 12:22 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New find: Headstart Explorer > > Evening! We used to be a service center for Vendex. I'll look around the > shop > tomorrow and see what info and programs I have for it and let the list > know. > > Bill Claussen > elecdata1 > > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I used to know some people that owned one. They loved it, and used it > > up into the mid 90s. The mom really liked the gui, and sort of prided > > herself in owning such an old pre-win95 computer that had a gui. I > > guess I can agree with her on that part, but I thought the GUI was kind > > of dorky :-) > > > > As far as surplus stores not keeping stuff together goes.... I can't > > agree with you more. I am always finding stuff scattered at Goodwill. > > If someone doesn't buy something in the first few days, people rip it > > apart and scatter it! > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > > Mark Gregory wrote: > > > > > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > > > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an > 8088, > > > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > > > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on > the > > > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > > > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged > keyboard > > > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single > ISA > > > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available > that > > > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > > > > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > > > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and > heavy > > > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, > there > > > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the > system > > > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > > > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > > > > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, > that > > > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional > info > > > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why > do > > > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > > > and the HD was missing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mark Gregory > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/16bf5390/attachment.html From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 11 08:43:55 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Citrisolv? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010411064355.009bb4a0@192.168.42.129> At 21:45 10-04-2001 -0700, you wrote: >Speaking of solvents, anybody have experience with commercial grade >Citrisolv? (D-limene) Not the commercial stuff, per se, but I've used the spray-can and spritz-bottle loads on lots of items, both plastic and metal. It doesn't do well on some plastics (starts to eat them), and I'm not sure of the technical name for the ones that it will eat. I've yet to suffer paint damage on anything I've used it to clean. That said, it is an -excellent- idea to, after you've cleaned any surface other than bare metal with it, go over said surface a few times with nothing but clear, clean water to neutralize the solvent effect. I used a special grade of the stuff for carpet cleaning when we first moved in. It consisted of finely-ground sawdust impregnated through and through with some sort of citrus-based solvent. You spread it out all over the carpet, grind it in with this special rotating-brush type machine, wait about 15 minutes, and then vacuum it all up after its dry. It worked amazingly well. Citrus-based cleaning is a wonderful thing indeed if you're careful with it. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 08:52:05 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 11, 1 02:30:50 pm" Message-ID: <200104111352.GAA09770@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Mattel Intellivison 3 WHAAAAT? You do mean INTV System 3, don't you? If you have a real Inty 3, then watch out for home invasion robberies when rec.games.video.classic finds out. :-P As far as I know, they were never released (reference http://www.makingit.com/bluesky/hardware/intelli3_tech.html which was written by the original designers at Mattel). The INTV System 3 was a later clone of the Intellivision Master Component after Mattel Electronics folded and sold out to INTV, Inc., which released the remaining inventory and even commissioned some new games. There's an explanantion at the bottom of that page, by the way. My first game system was a Tandyvision One :-) The STIC seems to be burning out on it, though, which is why I didn't list it. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The superfluous is very necessary. -- Voltaire ----------------------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Apr 11 08:37:41 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD3B241.6103AC7E@internet1.net> References: <3fb86423e4.423e43fb86@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411083702.03048100@pc> At 09:24 PM 4/10/01 -0400, you wrote: > It seems to me that the US is singled out quite a bit as being >somehow bad, and offensive. You're right, we should pick on every country evenly, just to please the anarchists and libertarians. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Apr 11 08:47:54 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online In-Reply-To: <200104110235.WAA22578@drs-esg.com> References: <200104101551.KAA06116@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411084103.031578c0@pc> At 10:35 PM 4/10/01 -0400, David Gesswein wrote: >> Wow!!! Does anyone know of software to read these on UNIX or easily convert >> them to PDF files? >> >The software I use to make my tiff files available as PDF will convert >them. >ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/c42pdf/ So this tool just creates a simple PDF containing all the G4 TIFFs? This morning I was looking at the 20K+ scanned pages of documents I received recently. They're all G4 TIFF, about 800 megs worth. The scans are quite clean, but it's just directories of loose files, page0001.tif, page0002.tif, etc. I was trying to think of a more friendly way to organize them on two CD-Rs. I like the idea of HTML on a CD, I think it'll survive as readable for at least another decade. TIFF-based multi-page single-linked PDFs would be good, but OCR'd and searchable in conjunction with the bitmap would be even better. I've got Acrobat 4.0 for my Mac G4, but that doesn't OCR, does it? - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 09:03:38 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from Ernest at "Apr 10, 1 10:41:04 pm" Message-ID: <200104111403.HAA12198@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >I want an Apricot or a PCjr, myself. I have the original King's Quest, just > >need to play it on a PCjr so I can hear how the music sounded. > > Don't you love those prorietary programs. You do know that there are > versions for other, easier to find systems. Well, there's PC versions of Commodore favourites too, but I'd rather play them on a Commodore! :-P I've never heard a PCjr sound chip, anyway. Just got to play with one when I was really young for a brief few minutes (long enough to get the infrared keyboard to beep at me until the salesman took it away). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. --------------- From ncherry at home.net Wed Apr 11 09:06:52 2001 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 References: Message-ID: <3AD464FC.721DF142@home.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the potential > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should > not be a major ordeal for most folks. Driving in along the Northeast corridor (DC - Boston) is a royal pain! It is not an enjoyable thing to do. The thought of being in a car for 6 hours is not something I like. But then again, I'll be riding my bicycle from High Point NJ (Northwest NJ) to Cape May (Southeast NJ) in a single day. So maybe I'm not a good measure. ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Apr 11 07:56:33 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010411085633.01008080@obregon.multi.net.co> I am not sure if this got through; the pop connection died while sending it the first time. ---------------------------------------------------------- I'll give it a try; I think that this is all that remains after the "great sell off/giveaway of '2000", which I had to do in preparation to moving overseas; my collection was decimated. You'll notice that I tried to keep one of each thing that interested me. -Vaxstation 2000 (6MB, 53MB, no monitor, no OS yet; want more memory, HD and a better understanding of VMS so I can boot it off the Vaxstation 4000/60) -Vaxstation 4000/60 (24MB, 1GB, OpenVMS 7.2, GDM16, tkz50, rrd42) -vt340 -2 x Sparcstation IPX (64MB, 2GB, monitors, Solaris 2.7) -Sparcstation 5 (144MB, 9.1GB, turbogx, GDM16, Solaris 2.7) -HP9000/735 (240MB, 20GB FWSCSI, 21" A40xx?, HPUX 10.2) -HP9000/380 (64MB, 9.1GB scsi w. netbsd, and three 330MB HPIB w. HPUX) -Decstation 5000/133 (64MB I think, 3 x RZ58 w. netBSD) -HP85B w. 128K module, HPIB, GPIO, several ROMs -HP9121B -2 x HP9114B -HP9133 -4 x HP71B (these are more of a computer than a calculator). Got lots of stuff for these, including several each of 128K, 96K, 64K, 32 and 4K RAM modules; Forth/Assembler, Mathpac, Data acquisition, text editor, surveying, AC analysis, curve fitting, 32K EPROM, and other ROM modules; plus HP82161, HP82164, HP82165, HP82166C, HP82169, several HP82400, ...) -HP75C -HP75D w. 128K pod -FSI HPIL modem and bar code reader -HPIB and HPIL versions of 2225 inkjet printer -Several HP calcs including 41C, 41CV, 67, 48SX.... -166MHz Pentium wintel, 128MB, 24GB SCSI :-( . This machine. -Bunch of smaller clones (486DX2 66 and below), some w. Linux, others w. DOS for legacy stuff, such as my HP82321C viper cards, HP82335 HPIB cards, HP-IL cards and such. Mostly used for instrumentation. Many of them lack a case and are assembled on demand on top of a table :-) . And about 150 lb of mainboards, i/o cards, pwr supplies etc. I am sure that I'm forgetting stuff... Then there is the DSP and microcontroller side of my collection, plus my test gear. I won't list them, but I concentrate on the 68HC11, 68HC16, MCS96, 56000 and TMS320C25. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 09:06:23 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Dongle, invented by Don Gall? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010411140623.85293.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > I've heard 'dongle' refer to the parallel port security keys way > before laptops an PCMCIA cards, so I would say fiction... > > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > BTW While talking to someone at the Santee swapmeet, he told me the origine > > of the word dongle is from the person who invented the short adapter > > cables, Don Gall. Fact or fiction? I first heard the term dongle in reference to a joystick-port security device for a game on the C-64. This would have been c. 1982. Even then, the legendary "Don Gall" was a persistent rumor. I think someone else on the list has already expounded the marketing aspect of the name. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Apr 11 09:03:39 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Citrisolv? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411085513.03159580@pc> At 09:45 PM 4/10/01 -0700, you wrote: >Speaking of solvents, anybody have experience with commercial grade >Citrisolv? (D-limene) >Things I plan to clean; a batch of gummy old mac floppy drives, general >dirty computer stuff, and maybe a few spots on the carpet. Any experienced >people have some tips? In terms of restoration, it's best to start with the least nasty or destructive cleaners first, and proceed to the big guns later if the others don't work. When cleaning microscopes and optics, I'll start with compressed air, then a lens cleaning tissue, and depending on the surface (optical or not) I'll proceed to lens cleaner, a spray cleaner something like Cinch or 409, to the Simple Green style of cleaner (diluted or not), to mechanical abrasion of a 3M ScotchBrite pad, and/or mixed with an aforementioned solvent, or a little Barkeeper's Friend (sodium oxalate and mild abrasive), up through Goo-Gone and $3 a can brake cleaner, which will take away almost anything greasy. I'd think you don't want to remove paint labels from the circuit boards, or harm belts or other rubber bits, no? - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 09:12:07 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411083702.03048100@pc> from John Foust at "Apr 11, 1 08:37:41 am" Message-ID: <200104111412.HAA11588@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > It seems to me that the US is singled out quite a bit as being > >somehow bad, and offensive. > > You're right, we should pick on every country evenly, just to please > the anarchists and libertarians. I'll start. Afghanistan sucks. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes ---------------- From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 11 09:24:53 2001 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from "Ernest" at Apr 10, 2001 10:41:04 PM Message-ID: <200104111424.KAA24523@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Ernest once stated: > > >I want an Apricot or a PCjr, myself. I have the original King's Quest, just > >need to play it on a PCjr so I can hear how the music sounded. Not bad if I recall. The PCjr had three music channels (and a fourth for white noise). I don't remember how the music went though. > Don't you love those prorietary programs. You do know that there are > versions for other, easier to find systems. But King's Quest was originally written for the PCjr. I also remember there being a key you could hit (Alt-something?) that would slow down the screen drawing so you could watch it being drawn. Quite cool. -spc (Later games would draw offscreen and then switch) From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 09:27:33 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website In-Reply-To: <001e01c0c24a$47b69390$ca57cfa9@druskersi> Message-ID: <20010411142733.31306.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave Ruske wrote: > I'm posting to this list for two reasons. First, while I have some knowledge > and literature on the original Popular Electronics ELF, the Netronics ELF II > and the RCA VP-111, I know substantially less about RCA's VP 3301, the Quest > Electronics (Super?) ELF, the DREAM 6800, the ETI-660 and the Comx 35... all > 1802-based machines as I understand. If anyone could give me some accurate > summary information of these machines and what made them unique, I'd be quite > grateful. I know about the first half of your list. Never heard of the DREAM 6800, the ETI-660 or the Comx 25. Love to learn more about them, too. The 1802 is one of my favorite chips, owing, I think, to the fact that it was my first exposure to machine language (and not just because there is an instruction with the mnemonic "SEX" :-). A buddy of mine who was a little older than I, built the standard Quest Elf and made a robot around it (after cobbling up an input port for the bumper sensors and high-drive output for switching motor relays), with the original 256 bytes. Quest had two designs - the Elf and the Super Elf. The original Elf was, essentially, a commercial version of the Popular Electronics Elf with a pair of 1822 SRAMs (256 bytes), a Q LED, optional onboard +5V regulator, toggle switches, and no 1861 Vixie chip. I think its importance is its simplicity for a commercial offering. There are about a dozen chips total, including buffers for the toggles and display LEDs, just like the model written up in the PE. ISTR paying ~$35 for the bare board when I was in grade school. It took me a while to collect the parts, one chip at a time (the 4049s, etc., were cheap enough, but the CPU and RAM and displays were quite pricey in their day). It was one of the many SBCs that could be put together for around $100, but it predated the ZX-80 by a bit. > Second, I thought that perhaps someone on this list might be interested in > playing with the TinyELF emulator itself. It's not nearly as lovely as Bill > Richman's ray-traced gem for the desktop, but for the Palm platform I'm > fairly happy with it. You can download the emulator for free at > http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=13929 Stunning. I wish I had a IIIc instead of a III. Nice work. -ethan > Thanks, and enjoy! > > Dave Ruske > dave@ruske.net > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 09:34:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010411143412.89266.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Cheponis wrote: > On Tue, 10 Apr 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Massachusetts is way too far to drive for a weekend. Flying would be > > required, as for VCF-West. > > > > -ethan > > ethan, have you considered moving to California or Massachusetts? ;-) > Could save you airfare! Who said anything about airfare? If the weather is good, I can fly myself. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Wed Apr 11 08:03:58 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:07 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010411090358.0100aea4@obregon.multi.net.co> Wow, I can't believe that I left off the Mac side of my collection in my previous message. -SE/30 -Classic -Classic II -IIci w. 40MHx 68040 accelerator -8100 I have several interesting NB boards, such as LAB-NB from Natl. Instruments w. Labview 2.11, Rasterops card, DT2255 capture card, and a few DSP development systems. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 09:38:58 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Citrisolv? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411085513.03159580@pc> Message-ID: Also worthy of mention on some cleaning is Bon-Ami. It gives you a nice cleaening job without tearing up the finish like cleanser does. I use it a lot lot polishing compound (I use white compound on occasion as well) but with less force and more for cleaning than actual polishing. When I worked for Jabil rebuilding Handspring handheld PDA's this last January they had a orange based solvent remover made by 3M but on plastics it would haze the finish. Gave you the smell of tangerines in your sinuses all day too. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:04 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Citrisolv? > > > At 09:45 PM 4/10/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Speaking of solvents, anybody have experience with commercial grade > >Citrisolv? (D-limene) > >Things I plan to clean; a batch of gummy old mac floppy drives, general > >dirty computer stuff, and maybe a few spots on the carpet. Any > experienced > >people have some tips? > > In terms of restoration, it's best to start with the least > nasty or destructive cleaners first, and proceed to the big guns > later if the others don't work. > > When cleaning microscopes and optics, I'll start with > compressed air, then a lens cleaning tissue, and depending on > the surface (optical or not) I'll proceed to lens cleaner, > a spray cleaner something like Cinch or 409, to the > Simple Green style of cleaner (diluted or not), to mechanical > abrasion of a 3M ScotchBrite pad, and/or mixed with an > aforementioned solvent, or a little Barkeeper's Friend > (sodium oxalate and mild abrasive), up through Goo-Gone > and $3 a can brake cleaner, which will take away almost > anything greasy. > > I'd think you don't want to remove paint labels from the > circuit boards, or harm belts or other rubber bits, no? > > - John > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 09:47:32 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <200104111412.HAA11588@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: And I can add (by experience) that Iceland sucks even more. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 9:12 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. > > > > > It seems to me that the US is singled out quite a bit as being > > >somehow bad, and offensive. > > > > You're right, we should pick on every country evenly, just to please > > the anarchists and libertarians. > > I'll start. Afghanistan sucks. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes > ---------------- From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Apr 11 09:51:26 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 References: <20010410215435.56905.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Distance perception is very strange. My Mom thinks nothing of driving from the Detroit area to northern Michigan (5 1/2 hour trip) for a vacation, but refuses to drive to Chicago (4 hours) I try to do something nice for her and... Speaking of which, I'm vacationing in Chicago at the end of the month, anyone know any good retrocomputing spots there? I already know about American Science and Surplus, they've had a few interesting things but usually used completed electronic assemblies there are overpriced. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:54 PM Subject: Re: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > I've gotten some griping about my selection for the location of the first > > VCF East. > > I haven't been griping, but I probably won't go, either. My loss. > > > I received over 150 responses to the VCF East survey. Here is a summary > > of the results: > > > State Count > > ----- ----- > > OH 5 > > Woohoo! We are number six! We are number six! (Sorry...) I just read in > the paper that as of the latest census, Columbus is the 15th largest city > in the U.S. (city only, metro areas don't count in the census). > > > There was also a strong desire to keep the event close to the Rhodes > > Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhodes Island so > > that tours to those facilities could be organized. > > That's a sound reason. I've always wanted to see the RCS/RI (ob. nit > pick: Rhode Island is singular. The island of Rhodes is in the Mediterranean) > > > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the potential > > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks > > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour > > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big > > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to > > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should > > not be a major ordeal for most folks. > > Most folks around here won't go two hours to Cleveland (jokes about Cleveland > unnecessary here). In six hours, I can almost get to D.C. (it's under seven). > St. Louis is just a little farther than that. Massachusetts is way too far to > drive for a weekend. Flying would be required, as for VCF-West. > > As to East Coast distance perception, think of England - it's a country > smaller than most U.S. states. They think 100 miles is the ends of the > Earth. My experience is the smaller the state, the greater the distance > perception. Lotsa small states once you get East of the Mississippi. > > Feel free to disagree as you wish. > > -ethan > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Apr 11 10:06:23 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: <200104111412.HAA11588@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411100239.00b5e980@pc> At 09:47 AM 4/11/01 -0500, Russ Blakeman wrote: >And I can add (by experience) that Iceland sucks even more. >> I'll start. Afghanistan sucks. Why, I own and maintain five Icelandic purebred sheep, the cutest little Viking sheep you ever did see, big round horns, shaggy wool, etc. Twin lambs this spring and everything. And there's a map of Iceland (in Icelandic) on my office reception wall. What, you don't like the cold and dark? CNN.com says the flyers are coming home, all because they said they were very sorry about the law of gravity, etc. - John From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Apr 11 10:26:13 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410221945.MXAH1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Allrighty, here goes (From hazy memory and disorganized basement) Apple: (Worked at a school for a while so I got lots of these :) Apple II+ Apple IIe Platinum Apple II (Black Bell & Howell OEM Version) Apple IIc Plus Apple IIgs Rev 3 ROM Macintosh Plus Macintosh II (2) Macintosh IIx (3) Macintosh IIvx Macintosh IIci (2, 1 with Daystar Turbo601 PowerPC Upgrade) Macintosh SE (3) Macintosh SE/30 Macintosh IIsi Macintosh LC III Macintosh Performa 400 (With IIe Card) Macintosh Quadra 650 Macintosh Quadra 610 DOS Compatable (3) Macintosh Workgroup Server 95 (w/ A/UX) Macintosh PowerBook 100 Dash 030 (Chopped Mac IIfx in industrial strength case) IBM: PS/2 Model 57SX PS/2 Model 8585 PS/2 Model 9595 PC Server 520 (Dual P90's) PS/2 Model 40LS(?) Laptop PS/2 Luggable (With red plasma screen, forgot model) RS/6000 Model 530H RS/6000 (PowerPC 601 model, forgot number) PC 5150 (Original 64k Model) PCjr PC-RT (Tower Model) EduQuest 486 (Integrated floppy/HD/Monitor, MicroChannel, strange machine) Sun: 4/200 Workstation 4/300 in pedestal server chasis Sparc IPC Sparc ELC SparcStation 10 Boards for a Sparc 4/220 DEC: VT-220 Terminal MicroVAX 2000 VAXStation 2000 (2) MicroVAX 3100 VAXStation 3100 DECMate II VAXStation 4000VLC VAX VXT1000 Graphic terminal Boardset for a VAX 8200 (96MB of RAM!) MicroVAX II (Tower/Pedestal Enclosure) DEC 3000/400, 3000/400S AlphaServer 2100 4/220 (No CPU or Memory, cool case though) DECStation 5000/125, 5000/240 DECStation 3100 (2) RA82 Hard Drive (Just for fun) A few dozen turbochannel video boards & parts 8-16 bit Home Computers: TI99/4, TI99/4A with Peripherial Expansion Chasis Commodore VIC-20 Commodore 64, Commodore 64C Commodore 128 (2 - one in great shape but wacked, one in bad shape but runs fine) Commodore Amiga 500 Commodore Amiga 2000 (Damaged - for parts) Mattel Aquarius Atari 800 Atari 800XL Atari 520ST Atari 2600, 2600jr (new model) Coleco Adam (2) HP: 9000/400 Workstation 9000 715/55 Workstation 718/60 Workstation 200 series computer (All-in one with built in floppies and keyboard!) Various HP-IL & GPIB devices A few old LaserJets NeXT: NeXT Cube 030 NeXTStation NeXTStation Turbo 040 NeXT Printer Misc: Compugraphic/Quadex Q500 Page Layout Minicomputer & Terminal Controller (2) Data General Nova 3 Minicomputer (With disk controller board, no disk) Data General Aviion workstation (Pizzabox RISC workstation. 300?) Banyan CNS 100 Server (Runs VINES only? 386 with a bunch of strange co-processor boards) Heath/Zenith CP/M computer (Big keyboad-built-in box) SGI Personal IRIS 25 & 35 AT&T UnixPC 3b1 NCR 3500 (486 PS/2 clone. Nice machine) DELL 433 Server (Giant 486 tower w/ 4 full height ESDI hard drives) TI Silent Terminal 700 (Portable printing terminal with acoustic coupler modem) TRS-80 Model 100 Laptop computer (With deluxe case, tape drive & acoustic coupler) Tons of misc workstation/PC parts From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Apr 11 10:27:43 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <20010411.102854.-229369.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Lessee, a partial listing of the 'fleet': SS-50: ---------- SwTPc 6800 SwTPc S/09 SSB Chieftain 9512 (in SwTPC cabinet) American Automation AA-570 Commies: --------------------------- VIC (With 64k Video Pak) C-64 (With Z-80 pak) C-128 PC's --------------------------- Brand X 286 test-bed 'Oklahoma' PC's Limited 286 'Utah' DTK 20MHz 386 running NetBSD 'Nevada' Brand X 233MHz AMD 6x86 running FreeBSD 'Missouri' Gateway P-166 Running Windows 95 'Michigan' HP's ---------------------------- HP-9000 model 16 HP-9000/360 'Eugen' HP-9000/375 'Bismark' Data General ---------------------------- AViiON AV-400 'Richlieu' AViiON AV-530 'Voltaire' DEC ---------------------------- PDP-11/23+ 'Hood' PDP-11/73 'Prince_of_Wales' MicroVax II 'Furious' VaxStation 3100m76 'Hermes' Other ---------------------------- H-89 Aquarius Fluke 1720A CoCo III At&t Unixpc 7300 AT&T UnixPC 3b1 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Apr 11 10:34:08 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at Apr 11, 01 10:51:26 am Message-ID: <200104111534.LAA24731@wordstock.com> > > Speaking of which, I'm vacationing in Chicago at the end of the month, > anyone know any good retrocomputing spots there? I already know about > American Science and Surplus, they've had a few interesting things but > usually used completed electronic assemblies there are overpriced. > There is the Chicago Commodore Expo, but that is the first week of September. More info at: http://members.aol.com/SWRAPUG/expo/index.htm Bryan From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 10:32:44 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website In-Reply-To: <20010411142733.31306.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010411153244.19667.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > 1861 Vixie chip. Duh... the *P*ixie chip. (Been playing with the VIC-20 a little too much lately). > > Second, I thought that perhaps someone on this list might be interested in > > playing with the TinyELF emulator itself... Is there any chance of a revision to emulate the appearance of the TIL311 displays when in "Elf" mode? Even though they were expensive, I always like the way they looked (one of the early bugs I mentioned on Bill Richman's emulator was that there was an extra row of dots in his rendered TIL311s). -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com Wed Apr 11 10:35:37 2001 From: CARL.P.HIRSCH at sargentlundy.com (CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. Message-ID: Speaking as a USian anarchist, I can say with a high level of confidence that the United States sucks the most. Bar none. The US is by far the most powerful corporate imperial force on the planet today, and as folks way back in this dead horse of a thread were saying, our government is very much beholden to various corporate interests. The last few months of the Bush II administration (i.e., repealing clean air regs, 86-ing workplace safety laws, etc.) must be a very explicit illustration to the rest of the world just how much corporations (and to a lesser extent the Religious Right) run the show . -carl hirsch holler defense committee midwest soyproduct autonomous zone "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent by: cc: owner-classiccmp@clas Subject: RE: OT somewhat. China, our siccmp.org aircraft, delays. 04/11/01 09:47 AM Please respond to classiccmp And I can add (by experience) that Iceland sucks even more. > > > It seems to me that the US is singled out quite a bit as being > > >somehow bad, and offensive. > > > > You're right, we should pick on every country evenly, just to please > > the anarchists and libertarians. > > I'll start. Afghanistan sucks. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes > ---------------- From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 11 10:55:14 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> <3AD24796.92A3CE6B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AD47E61.1048832C@kcinter.net> Hello Chad, I checked the shop and it appears that we don't have any information, schematics, programs or what ever for the explorer. Apparently we got rid of it sometime back. Sorry Bill Claussen elecdata1 Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello, > > I used to know some people that owned one. They loved it, and used it > up into the mid 90s. The mom really liked the gui, and sort of prided > herself in owning such an old pre-win95 computer that had a gui. I > guess I can agree with her on that part, but I thought the GUI was kind > of dorky :-) > > As far as surplus stores not keeping stuff together goes.... I can't > agree with you more. I am always finding stuff scattered at Goodwill. > If someone doesn't buy something in the first few days, people rip it > apart and scatter it! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Mark Gregory wrote: > > > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an 8088, > > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on the > > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged keyboard > > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available that > > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and heavy > > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, there > > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the system > > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, that > > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional info > > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why do > > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > > and the HD was missing. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark Gregory From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 11 11:01:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > > would accept (too large). > > Not too much too boast about. Of course, I'm AFAIK limiting myself to > stuff more than ten years old. > > Amiga 500 (several) > Amiga 2000A > Atari 520STM (several) > Atari 520STFM (several) > Atari 1040STFM (several) > Atari 520STE (upgraded to 4 MB) > Commodore 64 (several different models) > Commodore 128 > Commodore 128D (several) > Dragon 32 > Goldstar HC-200 MSX (broken) > Spectravideo 728 MSX > Sinclair ZX Spectrum > DECstation 5000/200 > Personal DECsystem 5000/25 (broken) > Atari 2600 (several, different models) > 2600 clone, 32 built-in games > Mattel Intellivison 3 > Philips G7000 > SEGA Mastersystem > Nintendo NES =) > SEGA Megadrive > Pong "PC5" consoles (several, different models) > > I really think that's it. Oops, that wasn't all. I forgot that I have some Macs and PS/2s , namely: Mac IIcx Mac IIxi (several) Mac IIsi (several) Mac LC Mac SE (several) Mac SE/30 Mac Classic IBM PS/2 model 56 (several) IBM PS/2 model 70 386 IBM PS/2 model 70 486 IBM PS/2 model 90 (several) IBM PS/2 model 95 In addition to that, I've got newer Amiga, PC and Mac systems, though none rating above 100 MHz. My fastest computer is probably the AXPpci Alpha at 166 MHz, but that has never been operated due to lack of ECC SIMMs. I suppose I prefer a lot of slower computers instead of a single faster one. From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 11 10:59:14 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff References: <3AD348D7.799D8548@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3AD47F51.1BCA429B@kcinter.net> Hi Bob (I hope you were asking me! :-) otherwise I'm going to feel foolish), I have all the schematics, original binders, Including the H8 boot tape. for the H8. I'm not really interested in parting with it for the time being. If you need a scan of something let me know. I'd be happy to scan what I can. Eventually I'm going to scan everything on it and post it on the web. Bill Bob Brown wrote: > What H8 stuff do you have? Are you intersted in parting with any of it? > > I have an h8 that I have no s/w, no schematics, no docs or anything else for. > > thanks. > > -Bob > > >Hi Mike, > >Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc > >for the H8. > > > >Bill > >elecdata1 > > > >"McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > > > > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > > > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > > > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > > > > > Mike > > > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR > Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator > Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 11 11:06:20 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104111352.GAA09770@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Mattel Intellivison 3 > > WHAAAAT? You do mean INTV System 3, don't you? If you have a real Inty 3, > then watch out for home invasion robberies when rec.games.video.classic > finds out. :-P As far as I know, they were never released (reference > http://www.makingit.com/bluesky/hardware/intelli3_tech.html > which was written by the original designers at Mattel). > > The INTV System 3 was a later clone of the Intellivision Master Component > after Mattel Electronics folded and sold out to INTV, Inc., which released the > remaining inventory and even commissioned some new games. There's an > explanantion at the bottom of that page, by the way. That would be the INTV 3. I'm on holiday, so I haven't got my stuff here to examine more closely. From elvey at hal.com Wed Apr 11 11:09:10 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <009001c0c258$fef12120$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <200104111609.f3BG9Aj20064@civic.hal.com> "Ross Archer" wrote: > > They are. I've tested the "broken" keys this way, > and they're all functional. (*Whew!*) :-) > Because the KIM uses a pair of 6530s, which are > nigh impossible to find anywhere at any price, Hi There is a fellow that is working on making a replacement board for the 6530. These are intended to replace the 6530's on Gottlieb pinball audio boards. As I understand, it would use a 6532, EPROM and a little glue logic. One does need a copy of the original data from the ROM on the 6530. I realize this doesn't meet the purest idea of restoring but unless someone finds a stock of these in some warehouse and recognizes there value, it may be the only way to bring these KIM's back to life. Dwight From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Apr 11 11:17:56 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104110516.WAA11548@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > > list server would accept (too large). Here's my list (from memory): Ohio Scientific: original Challenger 8K (Blue/Black) Superboard II C1P C2-4PMF C2OEM C2NET C3OEM C3D (big sucker, triple CPU, 14" 20Meg hard drive in 4 foot rack) C4P C4PMF enough boards to make another C4P and a couple of C2OEMs plus lots of custom peripheral controller boards built from 470s several large boxes of OSI docs and software S-100: Altair 8800b (turnkey) IMSAI 8080 (front panel) IMSAI 8080 (turnkey) NorthStar Horizon (thanks Frank!) SOL-20 XOR (4 slot chasis, fits in an 8" drive position) large collection of boards from old computer store going out of business (thanks for the help Tim!) SWTPC: 6809 - Well, just the chasis (no lid) and a memory card so far. Looking for everything else!! Heath/Zenith: H89 IBM and IBMish... 808x: PC (64K motherboard) Expansion Chasis (with support cards, cable and the foam pad to go between the two boxes) PC (256K motherboard) XT (256K motherboard) XT (640K motherboard) AT (with 512K motherboard with "piggyback" chips) Compaq Deskpro 286 (8MHz) PC-JR PCs Limited 8088 box (can't remember the name) HP-150 Sanyo MBC-550 Ergo Brick large box of 286/386/486 motherboards several copier paper boxes full of 8 and 16 bit ISA boards Commodore: CBM 8032 C64 GRiD: GRiDPAD 1910 Tandy: TRS-80 Model 1 level 1 TRS-80 Model 1 level 2 CoCo CoCo 2 Apple: IIe IIc a whole stack of Mac stuff I haven't had time to go through yet... I know there is an original MacII (it's the bottom of the stack) and there are some laptops on the top Misc stuff: More than 30 8 inch floppy drives... Shugart, Seimens, Tandon MITS, Pertec and XEROX 8 inch floppy drive cases. I know I'm forgetting some stuff... From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Apr 11 11:17:08 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <20010411.102854.-229369.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "Jeffrey l Kaneko" at Apr 11, 01 10:27:43 am Message-ID: <200104111617.MAA01893@wordstock.com> > > > Lessee, a partial listing of the 'fleet': > > > Commies: > --------------------------- > VIC (With 64k Video Pak) What is a ------^^^^^^^^^? What does it do for your VIC-20? > C-64 (With Z-80 pak) > C-128 > From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 11 11:17:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Documentary on ZDF Message-ID: Last night, around midnight, there was a documentary about the evolution of computer games on ZDF. Often incorrect, very much trying to prove how everything we use now is the apex of computer evolution, but also quite interesting. Among the most interesting pieces displayed was an East-german arcade game, called "Polyplay". Apparently, there is only one machine left, but the MAME project seems to be developing emulation support. The games really didn't seem like much fun, though. From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Apr 11 11:21:49 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from Jason McBrien at "Apr 11, 2001 11:26:13 am" Message-ID: <200104111621.JAA03770@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> This is from memory.... Unless otherwise noted they are functional. 2 TRS-80 Pocket computer (one is in need of batteries.) TRS-80 Model 4P Tandy 6000 HD (needs repair of a jumper wire on the mainboard) TRS-80 MC-10 Atari 2600 Atari 7800 Atari 800 Atari 800XL Atari 1040ST Apple ][+ Apple //c Apple IIgs Apple Mac Portible (currently only displays bombs on bootup) Apple Mac Plus Apple Mac IIfx Apple Mac IIlc Boston V 2 Commodore 64 Compucolor II HP 86 Osbourne I GRidPad Timex/Sinclair 1000 Timex/Sinclair ???? forgetting the damn model number (1500?) AT&T 7300 Unix PC Epson Equity II Epson PX-8 Epson QX-10 3 no-name XT compatible 1 no-name AT compatible 1 no-name 386 machine 1 no-name Pentium machine 1 Dell Pentium II machine A pile of assorted cases and Pentium Pro and Pentium II motherboards that I keep meaning to do something with. Magnavox Odessey2 Sega Genesis Sharp 6800? forgetting another damn model number Olivetti M10 Sun 3/110 If you count coprocessor boards as separate computers, 8086 processor board for the AT&T 7300 PC Transporter (V30 processor) for the IIgs Z80 CP/M card in the Boston V Speaking of the PC Transporter, does anyone have a newer driver disk that would allow the memory on it to be used as a RAM disk under System 6.0? Since upgrading from System 4, attempting to install the RAM disk driver results in a crash during boot-up. Eric From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Apr 11 11:28:42 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I hate to brag, but my collection includes the ghost of Charles Babbage > who roams around my house at night. I think perhaps he's attached to the > original portrait of himself painted by Lady Ada Lovelace hanging in my > living room. How he managed to follow it all the way across the Atlantic > is anyone's guess. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival Wouldn't it be quicker for you to list the 10 or so systems you DON'T HAVE. :-) From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Wed Apr 11 11:25:49 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <20010410215435.56905.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you hear of any good chicago spots, pls let me know (I live in the chicago area and am still looking for good spots..haven't found any). -Bob >Distance perception is very strange. My Mom thinks nothing of driving from >the Detroit area to northern Michigan (5 1/2 hour trip) for a vacation, but >refuses to drive to Chicago (4 hours) I try to do something nice for her >and... > >Speaking of which, I'm vacationing in Chicago at the end of the month, >anyone know any good retrocomputing spots there? I already know about >American Science and Surplus, they've had a few interesting things but >usually used completed electronic assemblies there are overpriced. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ethan Dicks" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:54 PM >Subject: Re: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 > > > > > > --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > > I've gotten some griping about my selection for the location of the >first > > > VCF East. > > > > I haven't been griping, but I probably won't go, either. My loss. > > > > > I received over 150 responses to the VCF East survey. Here is a summary > > > of the results: > > > > > State Count > > > ----- ----- > > > OH 5 > > > > Woohoo! We are number six! We are number six! (Sorry...) I just read >in > > the paper that as of the latest census, Columbus is the 15th largest city > > in the U.S. (city only, metro areas don't count in the census). > > > > > There was also a strong desire to keep the event close to the Rhodes > > > Island Computer Museum and the Retro-Computing Society of Rhodes Island >so > > > that tours to those facilities could be organized. > > > > That's a sound reason. I've always wanted to see the RCS/RI (ob. nit > > pick: Rhode Island is singular. The island of Rhodes is in the >Mediterranean) > > > > > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the >potential > > > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks > > > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour > > > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big > > > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to > > > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should > > > not be a major ordeal for most folks. > > > > Most folks around here won't go two hours to Cleveland (jokes about >Cleveland > > unnecessary here). In six hours, I can almost get to D.C. (it's under >seven). > > St. Louis is just a little farther than that. Massachusetts is way too >far to > > drive for a weekend. Flying would be required, as for VCF-West. > > > > As to East Coast distance perception, think of England - it's a country > > smaller than most U.S. states. They think 100 miles is the ends of the > > Earth. My experience is the smaller the state, the greater the distance > > perception. Lotsa small states once you get East of the Mississippi. > > > > Feel free to disagree as you wish. > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 11:56:01 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104111621.JAA03770@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <01Apr11.130408edt.119049@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Here's mine, video game consoles and items less than 10 years old removed: Amiga 1000 Amiga 500 Apple II+ Apple IIC Apple //e Apple IIGS Apple /// Apple Lisa 2 Apple Macintosh 128k Apple Macintosh Classic II Apple Macintosh Color Classic Apple Macintosh Plus Atari 1200XL Atari 400 Atari 600XL Atari 800 Atari 800XL Atari MegaST-2 Atari Portfolio Atari XE Game System Coleco Adam Commodore 128D Commodore 16 Commodore CDTV Commodore PET 2001-16N Commodore Plus/4 Commodore VIC-20 Compaq Portable PC Digital DECmate II Digital MicroVAX II Dynalogic Hyperion Homebuilt S-100 Bus System IBM PCjr IBM 5155 Portable PC Kaypro 2X Mattel Aquarius Mattel Intellivision Computer Module NEC PC-8201A Osborne 1 Osborne Executive Processor Technology SOL-20 Radofin Aquarius Sanyo MBC-555 Sinclair ZX-81 Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48k Synertek VIM-1 SWTPc S/09 Tandy 102 Tandy 1000HX Tandy Color Computer-3 Texas Instruments TI-99/4A Timex-Sinclair 1000 Timex-Sinclair 1500 Timex-Sinclair 2068 TRS-80 Color Computer 1 TRS-80 Color Computer 2 TRS-80 MC-10 TRS-80 Model I TRS-80 Model III TRS-80 Model 2000 TRS-80 Model 4P VTech Laser 128EX Zenith Z-100 From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 11 11:57:28 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: Message-ID: <3AD48CF8.9F8CFEFD@rain.org> CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com wrote: > > Speaking as a USian anarchist, I can say with a high level of confidence > that the United States sucks the most. Bar none. The US is by far the most > powerful corporate imperial force on the planet today, and as folks way > back in this dead horse of a thread were saying, our government is very > much beholden to various corporate interests. The last few months of the > Bush II administration (i.e., repealing clean air regs, 86-ing workplace > safety laws, etc.) must be a very explicit illustration to the rest of the > world just how much corporations (and to a lesser extent the Religious > Right) run the show . An old saying I like very much says that there would be no such thing as the environmental movement t'were it not for scientific illiteracy. The emphasis is on regulating the means rather than the results, and that is just a sign of control freaks rather than a desire for a solution. Blaming the Religious Right is either just plain ignorant or a desire for a flame war. From elvey at hal.com Wed Apr 11 12:04:50 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: 8251 settings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104111704.f3BH4oh20092@civic.hal.com> Mekonnen Tekeste wrote: > */ > void InitUSART(void) > { > outp(CONTROL, 0x40); // Reset UART > outp(CONTROL, 0x4E); // Stop, no parity, 8-bit, %16 baud > outp(CONTROL, 0x05); // UART now ready > } Hi Looking at one of the spec sheets, it states that one should send three 0x00's to the command before sending a valid command if you don't know the history of commands sent to the chip. When going into sync mode, it may be waiting for sync characters and it needs to make the distinction between them and a valid command. One should do a dummy read or two of the data register before expecting things to work also. Dwight From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Apr 11 12:08:49 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: DEC terminal with 1024x768 composite out In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010410150253.00881320@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010411120849.008c9e00@ubanproductions.com> I have a DEC VRE01 orange plasma display which would normally be married to some form of DEC X terminal such as a VXT2000 or some such. I would like to use the display as a simple windowed terminal for my PDP 11 console, but I need to find a DEC terminal box of some sort to go with it. The VRE01 has composite in and is 1024x768 (I am pretty sure on this). Does anyone have suggestions for what would be best to use with this? I don't really want to have to network boot the box, but that can be arranged if necessary from my NetBSD box, assuming that NetBSD can netboot a DEC diskless terminal box. Thanks for your suggestions. --tom From dave at ruske.net Wed Apr 11 12:14:07 2001 From: dave at ruske.net (Dave Ruske) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website Message-ID: <00d601c0c2aa$d1a2a520$e247cfa9@druskersi> First, sorry for that first post in HTML. With luck, I've got that remedied. Bad client, BAD!! Ethan Dicks wrote: > Is there any chance of a revision to emulate the appearance of the TIL311 > displays when in "Elf" mode? Even though they were expensive, I always > like the way they looked (one of the early bugs I mentioned on Bill > Richman's emulator was that there was an extra row of dots in his rendered > TIL311s). Easily done; look for it in the next release. The TIL311 *is* a cool display. My low-budget ELF had to make due with seven segments, but what the heck, now it's in software. It strikes me funny that the size of a bitmap for one digit (8 bit depth) takes up several times the memory of the original 256 byte ELF! Oh the waste of it all... Sellam Ismail wrote: > I created a new section in the VCF Link Library for RCA: Thanks, Sellam, I appreciate it! Dave Ruske dave@ruske.net From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 11 04:22:07 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:58:39 EDT." <3AD3AC3F.27113BBD@internet1.net> Message-ID: <200104110922.KAA18299@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Let me see.... Sinclair Mk14 TRS80 Model I ZX81 converted to a Forth machine XT Clone Early one with somewhat incompatible BIOS IBM AT Early one. Oric Atmos Several Spectrums (but we don't talk about them!) Macintosh SE SunRace V20 laptop Several terminals - one connected to a 486 running a PDP emulator Some more modern ones ie 386s and 486s, Mac 630s Sharp PC-1251 pocket computer with printer/cassette Sinclair programmable calc TI58 ditto A coupla slide rules... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Apr 11 12:14:24 2001 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: Jim Battle wrote: >- - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) LOL. Nice work, Jim! Y'all can laugh at my collection, too, for different reasons: - Mac Plus (MacOS 6.0.8, 7.0, 7.0.1, ElfArmor, 16MHz upgrade sometimes works) - Mac SE30 (working, details hazy) - DEC Rainbow PC100A (MS-DOS 3.10b, CP/M 80-86, 8087 copro, 832k RAM) = AT&T UnixPC (2, working, details hazy) - NeXT 040 Cube (NS 3.3, OD, floppy, dreams of finding a Dimension in the tip) The VAX 4000 VLC is off-topic until next year, right? A lot of its chips say 1992... leaves 6 count 'em 6 legit entries. .... woo hoo, we're number last! Can I count my TI-59 if I rebuild the battery pack and clean its keyboard pads? - Mark From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Apr 11 12:47:15 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: I actually don't have any heath/zenith stuff, I was just trying to organize an excuse for a road trip to St. Louis. If I say I'm going after computers the rest of the family will decide to stay home, otherwise they will all want to come and visit/shop/eat. I'm just after computers. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu >What H8 stuff do you have? Are you intersted in parting with any of it? > >I have an h8 that I have no s/w, no schematics, no docs or anything else for. > >thanks. > >- -Bob > >Hi Mike, >Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc >for the H8. > >Bill >elecdata1 > >"McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > From red at bears.org Wed Apr 11 12:45:26 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Mark Tapley wrote: > leaves 6 count 'em 6 legit entries. .... woo hoo, we're number last! I hold three of the last seven 'legitimate' entries on the Fhlushstone benchmark results (http://www.tuatha.org/~mpk/nullsort.cgi). The SE/30, the Aviion, and the Thinkpad 850 are all mine, and the Thinkpad's score is especially embarrassing as it's supposed to be a more-or-less 'modern' machine. ok r. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Apr 11 12:49:18 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104110922.KAA18299@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 11, 2001 10:22:07 AM Message-ID: <200104111749.LAA23505@calico.litterbox.com> 1 apple2E - scsi hd 1 apple2gs - no hd, memory expander to 4 mb + a plethora of drives. 1 kaypro 4/84 - with boot floppy. 1 vaxstation 3100/80 - currently somewhat disassembled. 1 vaxstation 4000/vlc - boots VMS, need to finish licencing and installing. 1 commodore 64 + 1541 floppy drive + monitor. 1 mac se/30 - not really mine, it's my wifes and still does useful work. 1 Amiga 500 Note please that I am very interested in getting rid of all of these except the se/30, the vaxstation 4000/vlc and the Amiga. Please mail me offline if you're interested. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 13:09:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <008901c0c257$79ea10a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <002401c0c2b2$915974a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Look "good" ... ??? ... Depends on your preferences, I guess. A big part of the question of HOW to go about fixing this is to answer the question of whether your goal is to restore the KIM-1 to its original condition for historical authenticity or whether you'd just as soon have something that works well instead. If the former is your goal, then you've a lot of hunting to do, but may eventually find out how to modify some other product to fit the application. On the other hand, there are lots of available keypads, or, if you prefer, lots of available individual keyswitches with removable/clear-capped tops, that you can build a really decent and servicable keypad that you can attach to the auxilliary connector in order to substitute it for the original without having first to remove the existing keypad. It seems to me that they should work quite well in parallel. I don't know that Commodore actually fabricated the keypads themselves, and, in fact, rather doubt it, so it's likely someone, somewhere, will have used a similar keypad, or, at least, similar switches, so that will provide you with amusement at swapmeets and junk sales. Moreover, if you haven't yet looked at third-party switch catalogs, I'd certainly recommend that so you can explore replacing the keypad with a possibly more durable and/or convenient, yet cosmetically similar keypad. This will require some serious head-scratching. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:17 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ethan Dicks > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a > particular > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > > > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step) and > RS (reset). > > I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and they're > working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons > involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting > with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick, > but what would look good. > > > -ethan > > > > > > ===== > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed Apr 11 12:56:28 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <029601c0c2b0$bc150260$0200a8c0@marvin> Working from memory, so forgive me if I forget a few. As you can (hopefully) tell, I'm concentrating on 8/16 bit micros from the "Home Computing" era, roughly 1977-1990, before the Wintel hegemony began. Apple II+ / IIe / IIc (2)/ IIgs "Woz" Apple Macintosh / Mac Plus / Mac Portable / Macintosh II / Mac IIse / Mac LC II Atari 400 (2)/ 800 / 600XL / 800XL / 130XE (2)/ 600 GS? (the game system with light gun) Atari 520ST / 1040 ST Coleco ADAM Commodore 8032 / Vic 20 / C-64 (original case) Commodore Amiga 1000 (2)/ 500 (2)/ 2000 (3) / 3000 / CDTV / 600 / 1200 (2) Compaq Portable DEC MicroPDP-11 / Pro 350 / Rainbow / 433MP DG Eclipse MV-2000 HP 150 IBM PC / PCjr. (2)/ PS/2 P-70 / Model 57 / Model 8595 Kaypro Portable Mattel ECS Osborne I Panasonic HHC STM Pied Piper TI 99/4A (3)/ CC-40 / Silent 700 TRS PC-4 / Model 100 / TRS-80 Model 4 (2) TS-1000 (2) Vendex Headstart Explorer plus uncounted hundreds of monitors, disk drives, cassette recorders, printers, plotters, modems, and touchpads for the above. Cheers, Mark. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 13:23:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> <008101c0c1d7$fea799a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <00a601c0c259$6ee8c3c0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <003201c0c2b4$7b0c9d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I'd recommend that you not only replace the keypad with something more durable, but that you buffer and parallel the LED display such that you can use some significantly larger displays. That will provide you with flexibility in packaging that the use of the existing display won't allow. It's lotsa work, but that's what the hobby is about, isn't it? The way to handle this might be to buy a scrap of aluminum sheet stock that's about large enough to build a box that will hold the KIM-1, perhaps together with a PSU, and, if you've any desire to do that, together with whatever expansion hardware you want. Make sure it's sturdy enough for your purposes. Obtain a hacksaw, shear, files, etc, and whatever else you think you'll need to butcher the metal. Radio Shack once sold a really decent nibbler, that's the easiest tool to afford for making oddly-shaped square-cornered holes for keypads, displays, connectors, etc. It was a good tool so it's likely no longer available. I bought two just to be safe. Purchase or fabricate a keypad, ABSOLUTELY NOT a membrane or otherwise prebuilt matrix keypad, but rather, one with keyboard-type switches and removable keytops to which you can see yourself applying some sort of decent-looking legends. That way you have a maintenance path. It's not hard to hand-wire a set of switches onto a piece of perf-board in a solid way that can be attached to the underside of your aluminum top. I've done this sort of thing many times and if you want "spiritual guidance" with respect to this, I doubt I'm the only one in this forum who's got advice for you. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:31 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:04 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > Funny you should ask. I studied the circuit in detail > about two years back, and verified that closing the > right pair of application connector pins caused the > "broken" keys to register. I got busy, put the KIM > away in a box and forgot about it until recently. > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Roger Merchberger" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:12 PM > > Subject: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: > > > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > > > > [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] > > > > > > >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > > > >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > > > > > [ snip ] > > > > > > >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one > of > > > >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > > > > > > > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and > disassemble > > > >it to clean the contacts? > > > > > > I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my > > > basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and > I > > > don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the > > > next couple days if that'd help... > > > > > > Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... > > > > > > [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... > > > > > > HTH, > > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > > -- > > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > > > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > > > > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > > > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > > > > > > > > > From paul at orchard.wccnet.org Wed Apr 11 13:26:32 2001 From: paul at orchard.wccnet.org (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Source for GRiD parts In-Reply-To: <200104111601.LAA29655@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: http://www.primelec.com/grid.html Paul R. Santa-Maria From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 13:38:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids References: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <004401c0c1d6$1b7098e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <00ba01c0c259$d28fef20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <001101c0c2b6$9ab28100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Taken by itself, it wouldn't be annoying, but anyone who thinks so little about what he posts that he has serious spelling/grammar/syntax errors in every post needs to slow down and think before hitting the SEND button. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:33 AM Subject: Re: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > > > You have GOT to get a spell-checker! > > --- Wondering if it isn't rather anal-retentive to worry > about the spelling of hemmoroids? > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM > > Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > > > > > > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > -- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > > President > > > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > > > 30 Greenwood Rd. > > > Asheville, NC 28803 > > > 828-277-5959 > > > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > > > THETechnoid@home.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 13:41:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: Message-ID: <001b01c0c2b7$0c5562a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes ... cannibalizing a PC keyboard might be a solution, provided you can come up with a way to modify the keycap legends. MicroSwitch once made keyboard switches that had an undersized keycap with a clear plastic cover that was "normal" sized. You could put a paper legend underneath the clear cover, obviously, and thereby avoid having to replace it all the time, not that replacing it would be a big chore. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:12 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > But still I would like a "nice looking" > > keypad, or at least "not amateurish". > > So does anyone know where one might find > > a "take a bunch of keycaps and fit into a plastic > > grid to make your own keypad array" sort of kit? > > Maybe you can find an old calculator with a suitable keypad and > cannibalize it? Or perhaps some old PC numeric keypad? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ewy at southwind.net Wed Apr 11 13:45:22 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD4A641.22C5EA46@southwind.net> I am but a humble and poor collector, but have managed to snag a few tiny gems out of the mounds of dirt. Tandy Color Computer (and related) stuff: TRS-80 Color Computer -- Original silver case, upgraded to 64K from the original 4K. My first computer. TRS-80 Color Computer 2 -- one or two of these TRS-80 Color Computer 3 -- three of these. One repackaged into a mini tower case with 512K, XT keyboard interface, DISTO Super Controller II (no halt) with 4-in-1 board, Adaptec SCSI-> ST506 (or whatever) MFM adaptor, 40M Seagate hard drive, 2 720K 3.5", 1 360K 5.25" floppy drives, homebrew Y-cable and card cage for DISTO stuff plus Radio Shack RS-232 card. This machine also has a Hitachi 63C09EP and Burke&Burke's Powerboost patches applied to OS-9 LII. (No, not MacOS version 9! Microware should sue!) 1 Frank Hogg Labs TC-9 Tomcat w/ 1M RAM (CoCo 3 descendant. Currently in not particularly good working order.) 1 Blackhawk MM/1 (OS-9/68000 Not quite 10 years old, but I think they were designed in 1990.) 1 '386 PC (pieced together from whatever junk I had lying around at the time) running OS-9/x86 (AKA OS-9000) [vaguely related because it has a 6809:] 2 Motorola Microsystems Micromodule 17 boards. (Some day I'm going to put OS-9 LI on one of those just for giggles. I also have about 3 6802 based CPU boards from CMS that use the same bus.) Assorted CoCo peripherals and gadgets, including the touch pad and a DS-69 Digisector video digitizer. Commodore/Amiga Stuff: 1 Commodore 64 with Enhancer 2000 Disk Drive 1 Commodore Amiga 1000 w/ DKB 2M RAM/RTC board. 1 Commodore Amiga 500 (512K, I think) (The Amigas work fine, but they have to share my CoCo 3 CM-8 monitor. People who get rid of Amigas for prices I can afford (like free) tend to keep the monitors to use as TVs with their VCR tuners.) [I actually bought the A1000 used for $300, probably 9 or 10 years ago and upgraded it with the DKB board. The rest I got for free.] Apple Stuff: 3 Apple ][c (1 is broken. I recently got 1 apple color composite monitor.) 1 (presumed broken) motherboard for a Mac 128K 1 Mac Plus 1Mb (bad power board) [listed for completeness, but not strictly on topic:] 1 Performa 636 2 Performa 6116CD (60Mhz PPC 601. One has a bad power supply and no heinous video cable) [I bought the now nonfunctional ][c from a friend (along with an amber monitor) for $100 years ago. The rest I got for free. I had to buy a keyboard and mouse and build a VGA adapticator thingie for the 636, my first working Mac system. The 6116es actually came with keyboards, mice, monitors and everything.) CP/M Stuff: 2 Epson HX-40 ROM-based CP/M laptops (labelled "MagicBox". Really cute little gadgets) 1 Kaypro 4 1 Osborne 1 Morrow Micro Decision with a Televideo terminal [I think I paid $30 for the Osborne with a bunch of disks, and about $5 each for the HX-40s. The rest were free.] Other old micros: 1 TRS-80 Model 3 with a TRS-80 daisy wheel printer. 1 TRS-80 Model 100 with a nifty hard briefcase. 1 Timex/Sinclair 1000 (Repackaged into some kind of replacement enclosure which includes a real keyboard. This computer has a whole raft of things plugged one-into-the-other off the expansion port, including a (16K?) RAM expansion, a printer interface hooked up to a little Timex thermal roll printer, and an Atari joystick interface. This all came in a box with a bunch of programs on cassette.) 2 TI-99/4A (no peripherals but a couple joysticks and a bunch of games on cartridge.) [All free] Game consoles: 2 Atari VCS (obligatory. They were free.) 1 Odyssey 2 (with a few games. I may have gotten this at a thrift store for a couple bucks. I don't remember.) PCs, IBM compatibles, etc: More IBM PCs and XTs than I can count. Someday I'll assemble a couple representative systems. A number of compatibles, 8088s and a few '286es. [I don't have a genuine IBM AT though.] 1 IBM PCjr with monitor and printer. 4 or 5 Tandy 1000s with maybe 1 or 2 representative Tandy monitors among them. 1 Tandy 1000HD (with bad HD) 1 Tandy [something or other] '286 system. 1 Tandy 3000 (386DX/16 (currently with Evergreen '486 DLC upgrade). This system runs my Universal Device Programmer (MCT EMUP)) 2 Compaq Portable (luggable, 8088) 1 Compaq Portable (similar, but 80286) Several Texas Instruments PCs. (8086, I believe. Run MS-DOS but not really IBM compatible. Some of these are luggables similar to the old Compaqs. I have a fair amount of software and documentation for these machines.) Loads of other unremarkable PC clone hardware. People have been giving me '486es lately. Several Zenith SuperSport'286 laptops, one of which runs my homebuilt CNC drill press [I think I paid $10 for an IBM PC system once, years ago. Most of the rest of the above stuff was free.] Newer systems, not really on topic: 1 IBM POWERstation 355. AIX (Not yet 10 years old, but apparently now incapable of designing aircraft parts. When I compile PCB on it though, I expect it will do a more than passable job of helping me lay out PC boards.) 1 Pentium-166, 64M RAM running Linux (currently RedHat 6.2. Scabbed together out of mostly free parts. The motherboard and CPU came my way at no cost because it was too slow. Works just great for me. I think I paid for the RAM and one of the hard drives.) 1 Cyrix M2 PR300 128M RAM running MS-Windows 95 (What can I say, I have a soft spot for flight sim games, and Microprose disn't see fit to port European Air War to Linux. Hey, at least I haven't allowed Bill to waste my time, money, and system resources even further by succombing to the pressure to "upgrade" to Windows 98.) [Okay, so I actually paid some money for these machines -- but absolutely as little as possible, I promise!] -- Joel Ewy ewy_UCE_IS_THE_PLAGUE@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Apr 11 13:49:49 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 Message-ID: For those who are griping about the drive, Worcester does have a small airport. Many commuter shuttles and smaller commercial aircraft fly in and out on a regular basis. Hotels abound in Worcester as well... By the way, do I get any points for suggesting Worcester? :-) Rich B. From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 11 13:49:25 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <003501c0c2b8$229a6a50$92db3fd0@DOMAIN> Well... Here's most of my systems from memory. (minus periperals/software/docs/dups) HONEYWELL 316 DEC WT/78,11/05,11/44,mPDP 53/73/93, MVax II, MVax 3600,Rainbow, Pro350, DEC Vaxstation 3100,AlphaServer 400 SMS 1000/40,1000/50 AMD 2901EVB IMS Basic Four INTEL MCS-4 chipset and rev.0 manual, SDK-85, SDK-86, PPDS-100 MOTOROLA EXORcisor, MEK6800-D2, 68HC11EVB, HDS-200, EXORmacs COSMAC Dev System 4, ELF, ELF II, SuperELF, VP 3301 SWTPC 6800, 6800/2, 6809, S/09 MITS Altair 680 IMSAI 8080, 8048, VDP-80, VDP-44 Thinker Toys Wunderbus Homebrew S-100 Vector 3 OSI 500, Superboard II, C2-8P, C2-OEM, C3-SI, C3C12, C4P, C8PDF E&L MMD ALTOS 8000 IDC Superbrain NORTHSTAR Horizon, Advantage HEATHKIT H-8, ET-3400, ET-6800, H-11, H-89, Z-100 KIMS Kim-1/Kim-4, SYM-1, AIM-65 MULTITECH MicroProfessor MPF-1 EXIDY Sorcerer, Sorcerer II KAYPRO 1, 2*, 4*, 10, 16 HP 5036A, 85, 86, 87, 110, 150 EPSON HX-20 OSBORNE Portable TRS-80 *.* TIMEX/SINCLAIR ZX-81, 1000, 1500, 2068 COMMODORE PET 2001/4008/4032, CBM 8032, SX-64, 128D VICTOR 9000 AMIGA 1000, 2000 Video Toaster 4000 ATARI 800, XLs, XEs, STs, Portfolio COLECO Adam MATTEL Aquarius TI 990/101MA, 990/u89, 99/4A, CC040 APPLE II*, ///, Lisa 2, Newtons 130, 2100, Macs.. 8100 IBM PC, PCjr, XT/286, AT GRID 1900, AT&T 3B2/400, 3B2/1000-80M TELEVIDEO TS-806 CANNON Cat CT Workslate NEXT Cube, NextStation SUN Sparc 1, Sparc 1+ ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Wed Apr 11 13:57:39 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c0c2b9$48327ae0$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> Guess I'll do a -from memory- list to join in. I have a 1.5x sized garage so it worked out nicely. Apple II Apple /// (beaten up) Mac Mac Classic Mac II Mac performa Mac Quadra 2 Mac LC -- Looks like I prefer macs, truth is it's because most other people didn't prefer them. a shame. PDP 11/34 (i/o to small mfm HDD) 3 Rainbow 100 decS III uVax II 2 uVax II-GPX vS 2000 vS 3100 vt52 "DecScope" vt125 vt220, vt240, vt320 (2), vt340 -- DEC's my choice Tek 4107, Televideo?, ADM-5, HP ca1978? 4 Fujitsu eagle SMD 4 1/2 sized SMD (FSD) 10 Various MFM 12 Various SCSI 40 Various IDE 2 HP 85a HP 86 HP 100? 2 IBM PC PC XT PS/2 m25, m30, m60, L40 2 convertible RS6000 320? PS/vp 486 (Helped give away over 30 '486 s to a school in MA) PC/GL PIII (ringer) wierd unisys ISA/Unix machine (newly found) Wicat 6' miniframe midges: Timex/Sinclair 1000 C64, Atari 400, TRS CoCo HP Calcs (7), other Calcs (10) Gosh, it really adds up. There must be $200 worth of stuff here . P.S. I'm at capacity so "add" really should mean "displace", unless I give up the living room, dining room, bedroom but, hey, I thought I wanted to get a life too. John A. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Apr 11 13:46:23 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: Here's my list ... Briefer than most, but not bad for only 1+ year... Televideo TS-803 Northstar Advantage 8/16 Zenith Z-120 Commodore 64, and 64C (with CP/M cartridge) Commodore 128 (dual 1571s, shared with the 64) Texas Instruments TI-99/4A w/ PEB (dual drives) Texas Instruments CC-40 Tandy 102 (w/ cassette recorder and acoustic coupler) ICOM Attache Apple IIc, w/ external 5.25" drive Memodyne M-80 Kaypro 4-84 VAXStation II/GPX A nice Multibus-based 8080 emulator (forget the manufacturer) National Semiconductor 19" rack mount Multibus system based on BLC 80-20/4 Various Multibus boards, card cages, and an Intel 310 chassis Various S-100 boards, motherboards, power supplies, etc. 7 Shugart 8" floppy drives (850s if I recall correctly) MANY 360KB 5.25" drives, various manufacturers Heathkit ET-3400 trainer Components up the wazoo (that's a technical term) -- CPUs, Memory, Support chips, etc... Several other SBCs, Many docs, manuals, software, etc. for Multibus and CP/M and S-100 machines I think that's it ... I'm moving at the end of May, so some of this may come up as free/low cost on this list, since I really need to focus in on a few specialties. With two small (1.5 years and 4.5 years) kids and a life :-), it's next to impossible even just to keep this small bit going... I'll let you all know... Rich B. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 14:00:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010410212331.4377cf42@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 10, 1 09:23:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/288592d7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 13:52:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <001901c0c222$cd9d7960$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 10, 1 07:00:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2186 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/74d295dc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 13:44:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:08 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: <3AD3A3C8.43BC8A4@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Apr 10, 1 06:22:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1673 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/c5f6befb/attachment.ksh From mbg at world.std.com Wed Apr 11 14:28:31 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 Message-ID: <200104111928.PAA24960@world.std.com> I also am a WPI alum. 1974-1978... Although that weekend is the same as the ARRL field day, I will take some time to attend (and maybe even show some stuff)... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Apr 11 14:33:59 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Collection list (just for phun) (THETechnoid@home.com) References: <20010410221945.MXAH1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <15060.45479.64688.856504@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 10, THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > would accept (too large). Hmm. This is from memory, and some of the items here aren't ten years old yet, while others are still in production use here. This is simply all of the "older" systems here that I have stuck in my head. DEC PDP ------- PDP8/e (two) PDP8/m PDP11/03, /05, /23, /24, /34a, /53, /73 (several) Pro350, 380 (several) SBC11/21 PDT11/150 MINC-11 DEC VAX ------- MicroVAX-I MicroVAX-II (several) VAXstation-II (several) MicroVAX-2000 (several) VAXstation-2000 (several) MicroVAX-3000 series (several) MicroVAX 3100 VAXstation 3100 (several, various models) VAXstation 3540 VAXstation 4000/60, /90 VAX4000-200, -300, -400 (two), -700A VAX8350 VAX8700 DEC RISC -------- DECstation 2100, 3100 (several) DECstation 5000/120, /125, /133 (several) DECstation 5000/200, /240 (several) DECsystem 5810 DECsystem 5900 Cray ---- YMP/EL94 (not quite ten years old) YMP/EL98 (ditto) Sun --- Sun 2/120 Sun 3/50 (several) Sun 3/60 (several) Sun 3/110, 3/160 Sun 3/260 Sun 4/110 (several), 4/150, 4/260, 4/330, 4/470 Sun 4/630MP, 4/670MP SPARCstation-1/1+/2 SPARCstation-SLC/ELC SPARCclassic (several) SPARCstation-LX (several) Older SGI --------- Crimson Jurassic Classic NeXT ---- NeXT '030 cube NeXT '040 cube (several) NeXT '040 turbo cube NeXTstation NeXTstation turbo NeXTstation turbo color (several) HP -- HP-85 HP-87XM HP-71D HP-75C HP-75D HP9000/340 HP9000/715 (several) HP9000/735 (several) HP Calculators -------------- HP10C HP11C HP12C (several) HP25C HP28C HP28S HP29C HP35 HP45 (several) HP41C HP41CV (several) HP41CX HP48SX HP65 HP67 (several) HP80 HP97 (several) Micros ------ IMSAI 8080 TRS-80 Model 4 TRS-80 Pocket Computer I Timex/Sinclair 1000 AT&T ---- UnixPC 7300 (several) 3B1 (several) 3B2/300 SBCs/eval boards ---------------- Intel SDK-85 HP 8085 briefcase trainer various 8080 trainers various 6800 trainers Heathkit ET-3400 6802 trainer (several) AMD Am2901 eval board MIPS R3000 eval board From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Wed Apr 11 14:39:05 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: WGBH Video Message-ID: Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video series "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by WGBH for Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since misplaced it. It hasn't been available for purchase for a while as I understand. Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From emu at ecubics.com Wed Apr 11 14:49:22 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics References: Message-ID: <3AD4B542.668C2300@ecubics.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > (grinell ?) > > I have a Grinnell framestore somewhere. I must dig it out and see if I > can get it working. It's a _large_ rackmount unit with PSUs in the bottom > and a rack of large PCBs at the top. I think mine might have the video > input option as well. LARGE rackmount sounds familiar ;-) Big PCBs, tons of ICs. I don't remember anymor, but it was something like 512x256x8 resolution. Amazing at this time ;-) > IIRC, they would connect to a PDP11/VAX, Was on one of ours PDP11. cheers From pbboy at mindspring.com Wed Apr 11 14:45:35 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3AD4B45F.DC275570@mindspring.com> My wife's family still has one although I don't know if her younger brother has 'experimented' with it yet. It worked when I saw them last and I know they had a bunch of games and programs for it. It ran what looked like a version of windows. I can ask if they still have any programs for it. Robert Mark Gregory wrote: > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). It's an 8088, > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port all on the > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the hinged keyboard > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor available that > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style mouse and heavy > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could tell, there > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take the system > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this thing, that > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any additional info > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why oh why do > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > and the HD was missing. > > Thanks, > Mark Gregory From jss at ou.edu Wed Apr 11 14:56:07 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <987018967.3ad4b6d737fc1@email.ou.edu> Quoting CARL.P.HIRSCH@sargentlundy.com: > Speaking as a USian anarchist, I can say with a high level of > confidence that the United States sucks the most. ... The last few > months of the Bush II administration [have been very bad]. That's because he's from Texas, and as all of us Okies know, Texas blows. That's why the wind is always coming from the southwest here in Oklahoma. Of course the Texans say that it's because Oklahoma sucks... -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Apr 11 14:55:36 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <20010411.145536.-290249.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:17:08 -0400 (edt) Bryan Pope writes: > > > > > > Lessee, a partial listing of the 'fleet': > > > > > > Commies: > > --------------------------- > > VIC (With 64k Video Pak) > What is a ------^^^^^^^^^? What does it do for your VIC-20? It is a product put out by DATA-20, an outfit that used to be in the L.A. area. It does three things: Firstly, it adds 64 k of *paged* ram to the VIC! It gives the VIC a 40 or 80-column mono display, and the VideoPAK also has firmware that will turn the VIC into a data terminal. It's a cool item, alas, it no longer works (only works in 40 column mode now). It cost big bucks in 1982 when I bought it (something like $300). It came with a word processing program, and a spreadsheet. My then-future wife used it in the lab were I worked for billing, letters, etc. It's the only one like it I've ever seen. The other ones I've seen were the 32k model. These guys also made an 80-column cart for the c-64 (along with a CP/M cart). Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 11 15:05:22 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: A couple of Trade Items Message-ID: <200104112005.f3BK5Mu05532@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have a Macintosh IIfx and a Macintosh Powerbook 100 that I'm removing from my collection (I'm trying to be a little more focused). Does anyone have any DEC items for trade? My biggest need is a replacement Pro380 mainboard. I have the external floppy for the PB100, but the battery is dead. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Apr 11 15:03:00 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200104111928.PAA24960@world.std.com> from Megan at "Apr 11, 2001 03:28:31 pm" Message-ID: <200104112003.f3BK32A02457@bg-tc-ppp1142.monmouth.com> > I also am a WPI alum. 1974-1978... > > Although that weekend is the same as the ARRL field day, I will take > some time to attend (and maybe even show some stuff)... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Wanna provide 2-meter talk in? Bill N2RDI -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pbboy at mindspring.com Wed Apr 11 15:03:57 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AD4B8AC.DBE89552@mindspring.com> Here's my extremely small list, but I have over a ton of books and manuals. This new house has much more room than my last one so now I can really expand my collection. =) 3 x TI99/4A w/ PEB and many other accessories TRS-80 Model 1 Level 1 TRS-80 Model 4 IBM PS/2 System 25 IBM 5363 TI Silent 700 486 DX100 TI CC40 Heathkit ET-3400 SWTPc /09 (probably dead, but it looks like it was pretty fun) Dietzgen ESR-1 (neat old calculator, nixies go crazy when it calculates) Robert From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 11 15:08:22 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <20010409204200.KPIT29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <032f01c0c141$8baa4240$0200a8c0@marvin> <3AD24796.92A3CE6B@internet1.net> <3AD47E61.1048832C@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3AD4B9B6.79D504A8@internet1.net> Hello Bill, It wasn't me that wanted the info, it was Mark Gregory. I just new someone that had one at one time, but thanks for getting back to the list with it :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA bill claussen wrote: > > Hello Chad, > > I checked the shop and it appears that we don't have any information, schematics, > programs or what ever for the explorer. Apparently we got rid of it sometime > back. > > Sorry > > Bill Claussen > elecdata1 From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 11 15:10:21 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Citrisolv? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010411073717.3cb7d876@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > I believe Citrisolv is what's in Goo-Gone and some of the other similar > solvents. The stuff works great for removing labels, ink and the like. I've > never had enough of it to use it for general cleaning but I expect that it > will work well. Two things that I've found that help when using Goo-Gone > are (1) warm the object to be cleaned before putting on the solvent (2) > after applying Goo-Gone to the area to be cleaned cover it with tin foil to > keep it from drying out. Where do you get tin foil, Joe? I haven't seen any of that in years! - don > > At 09:45 PM 4/10/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Speaking of solvents, anybody have experience with commercial grade > >Citrisolv? (D-limene) > > > >One of my friends gave me 2.5 gals of the (I am assuming) 20% commercial > >concentration, and it looks real NASTY (much thicker than motor oil). His > >only warning was not to get it on paint I want to keep. A new pair of > >nitrile gloves is a no brainer, and the fumes actually smell nice, but I am > >not entirely sure how I want to proceed. I already have plenty of weak > >consumer spray bottles of similar stuff, so I don't plan to waste any of it > >highly diluted, maybe just as a 5:1 or 10:1 so it doesn't eat through the > >bottle too fast. > > > >Things I plan to clean; a batch of gummy old mac floppy drives, general > >dirty computer stuff, and maybe a few spots on the carpet. Any experienced > >people have some tips? > > > > > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 11 15:12:05 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <000201c0c2b9$48327ae0$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> Message-ID: <3AD4BA95.F2E9AD6E@internet1.net> John, John Allain wrote: > wierd unisys ISA/Unix machine (newly found) Whats the model number? I like Unisys stuff. > Gosh, it really adds up. > There must be $200 worth of stuff here . Thats how I feel somedays :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 15:16:36 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The 50 pin with the hooks on the side is actually referred to as a Centronics 50 pin, or SCSI-I (external SCSI as well on older machines before SCSI-2 came along) Most companies in the way back used either what was cheap or had specials made up just to keep you coming to them for cables, connectors, etc. Why does Apple had a different AUI port than anyone else? Why are there 9 pin and 25 pin RS-232's.....Why is Apple's on an 8pin mini-din? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:53 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > What's causing all the confusion here is the nomenclature. > First of all, > > there's only one Centronics connector I've ever seen and that's > a 36-conductor > > type. It was made for Centronics, which was at one time, a > pretty good printer > > Are you sure the 36 pin one was _made_ for Centronics? I've seen the 14, > 24 and 50 pin ones on equipment a lot older than Centronics printers, and > I wouldn't be suprised if the 36 pin one wasn't used somewhere else as > well. Back then, it wasn't that common to have a custom connector made up > if there was a standard part that would do the job. > > After all, 36 pins is not an ideal fit for the Centronics interface. > IIRC, there are some unassigned pins. If they were going to have it > custom-made, they could have had a 30 or 32 pin one made instead. > > > maker, though the Centronics line was pretty much killed off by > the much better > > and less costly substitutes imported for the PC market some > years before there > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. > Prior to SCSI fame, > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > DD50 connector. > > > it was, and still is, widely used in the telecom business. Not > being a telecom > > type, I'm not aware of a generic name for that type of connector. > > Nor am I. HP called the 50 pin one a '50 pin Telco connector' at one > point. But I've never heard that name used for any of the smaller ones. > > Over here the catalogues are split between 3 'generic' names for this > series of connectors : > 'Centronics' (after the most popular use for the 36 pin one) > 'IEEE-488' (after the most popular use for the 24 pin one) > 'Amphenol' (after the company that IIRC first made them, even though they > make many other types of connector). > > I tend to buy them by stock number :-) > > > SCSI, however, in its various versions, uses connectors ranging from the > > well-known and popular DB25 ( and a special smaller variant for > APPLEs ) to the > > Well, the Mac+ used a normal DB25 for the SCSI port, just with a > different pinout to that which some other companies used at about the > same time... > > -tony > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Apr 11 15:19:03 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3AD464FC.721DF142@home.net> from Neil Cherry at "Apr 11, 2001 10:06:52 am" Message-ID: <200104112019.f3BKJ3202663@bg-tc-ppp1142.monmouth.com> > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Worcester is still within only a few hours of where most of the potential > > attendees will be coming from. I don't know how you east coast folks > > perceive distance, but I've lived in California all my life and a 6-hour > > drive from the San Francisco bay area to the Los Angeles area is no big > > deal to me. I made the round-trip in one day a couple weekends ago to > > pick up an old computer. Driving a couple to three hundred miles should > > not be a major ordeal for most folks. > > Driving in along the Northeast corridor (DC - Boston) is a royal pain! It > is not an enjoyable thing to do Neil -- the trick is to do it out of hours. The worst thing is to get caught in one of the city rush hours. I did the run to DEC training so many times I can do that run and the ones to DC (a big vacation spot for me and a former site where I did Unix training) and Baltimore (where I go often) without any problems other than trying to find good radio stations. Worcester should be less than 5 hours if all goes well. --Bill --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 15:21:37 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: WGBH Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have you tried contacting WGBH in Boston? They may still offer it in certain formats. http://www.wgbh.org/ > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of brian roth > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:39 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: WGBH Video > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video > series "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by > WGBH for Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since > misplaced it. It hasn't been available for purchase for a while > as I understand. > > Brian. > > > Brian Roth > Network Services > First Niagara Bank > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > From rdd at smart.net Wed Apr 11 15:28:24 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > For those who are griping about the drive, Worcester does have a small > airport. Many commuter shuttles and smaller commercial aircraft fly in and > out on a regular basis. Hotels abound in Worcester as well... What about facilities for those choosing more reasonable means of long and short distance transporation, such as train stations and boarding stables? > By the way, do I get any points for suggesting Worcester? :-) Yes, as in the points surrounding a bulls-eye painted on you so that we can keep score when the pieces of buck-shot, or at least peas from pea-shooters, start heading your way for choosing such an annoyingly distant location for most people on the east coast - and for suggesting that the festival be held on the wrong side of the Mason-Dixon line. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 15:23:41 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer In-Reply-To: <3AD4B45F.DC275570@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Headstart had a cd to load it with and most people neither have the CD nor do they have the boot floppy for the cdrom. I retored one back to factory load about 3 yrs ago but I've since lost all ties with where the Headstart links have gone. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Robert > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:46 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > My wife's family still has one although I don't know if her > younger brother has > 'experimented' with it yet. It worked when I saw them last and I > know they had > a bunch of games and programs for it. It ran what looked like a > version of > windows. I can ask if they still have any programs for it. > > Robert > > Mark Gregory wrote: > > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). > It's an 8088, > > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port > all on the > > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the > hinged keyboard > > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor > available that > > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style > mouse and heavy > > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could > tell, there > > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take > the system > > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this > thing, that > > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any > additional info > > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why > oh why do > > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > > and the HD was missing. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark Gregory > From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Wed Apr 11 15:23:52 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Found Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens (CNC?) unit in our basement Message-ID: <28377.987020632@www54.gmx.net> Hi folks (especially fellow kids) out there, using your easter holidays to dig through stuff in your parents' basement can be fun...I ended up yesterday with a long-forgotten Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens 19" unit (in a cardboard box with lotsa connectors, replacement fuses and even some paperwork for it) which gives me the general impression of once having been used to control some kind of NC drilling/milling/whatsoever machine. As I'm not very good at describing stuff, I called a friend and we took some shots with his digicam. I can't offer them on a homepage like all the others (haven't got one yet); will it work if I simply send them to the list as an attachment to one of my posts? The thing consists of a metal frame with a PSU as the base unit, a keyboard PCB directly behind the front panel, a bus board (also upright-standing) behind that, and three PCBs plugging into it from the back side. Two cooling fans blow into the casing from the left side. The back side of the PSU held a 4.5V memory backup battery that made a gigantic mess by losing some of its contents while in storage, creating bluish-white crusts on the frame and inside the cardboard box...Except for one corner of the PSU regulator board, the electronics were apparently not affected. There is no front label telling the model or anything (Inside the machine, there is a metal Siemens type label with the number 321/22113 on it), but I remember seeing the thing together with a monitor (also 19" form factor) labeled "SIEMENS Sinumerik ..."; I'm afraid my parents eventually tossed that some time ago. Why didn't I always care about Vintage Computers the way I do nowadays...? The included documentation is: -A4 "Siemens Sinumerik logbook" (empty) -A3 "FANUC mate TG Maintenance Drawing" (from 1979, with notes both in English and Japanese) -A4 "FANUC Customer's Maintenance Instruction (for ulti-mate TG)" -A4 "FANUC MATE TG Data sheet" The last one gives a model (A03B-0402-B001) and a serial number (1883815), October 1980 as date of manufacture, and Siemens AG as customer. According to the rule that the processor "always is the big socketed IC", in this case we deal with an MB8861H, a 40-pin DIL IC in a white ceramic housing. The schematics call it the MPU (=Main Processing Unit?). I am looking forward to your replies, especially as I hope to get a hint on what the system is capable of. Perhaps even enough to persuade my parents into keeping it and looking for a monitor somewhere... Arno Kletzander Arno_1983@gmx.de -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 11 15:24:59 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3AD3AC3F.27113BBD@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AD4BD9B.B3E000F0@internet1.net> Hmm, let me see if I can think of all the other stuff I have, now that I see everyones lists are so long. -Apple //gs -Mac Plus (4megs of Ram, HD, System Saver) -PDP11/53 (BA-23) -IBM Model 77 -TI PRO <----anyone want this, I don't! No keyboard, monitor, or OS, However. -Unisys PCI3206 upgraded to PCI4666 (PCI has nothing to do with the bus) -IBM AT (in pieces) -Big stupid Memorex/ Telex server case, that I bought and don't want, but don't want to give away. It is unused , from Model 85PS, I think it might be an Intel design, because I have seent he same case on Ebay labeled Zenith. -Big Cipher tape drive that I got with the PDP11/53, anybody want it? I don't think I will use it. Wow, even when I add all the other larger junk, I still can't match everyone elses lists. I guess I have been selling off, and giving stuff away a lot lately. I have lots of odds and ends too, but even that has been reduced dramatically. I just get tired of living in a mess!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Apple //e > > MicroVax 3400 <----still working on it > > IBM Model 8580 with Reply Corp. upgrade planer > > Unisys MPE4668 EISA server (it's a 486, runs DOS, etc) > > IBM 6x86PR300 (Cyrix 233mhz)/ FIC 503+, all scsi (main system) > > I have more, but these are the machines, and I can turn on, and they > will do something. Others, are projects that I want to get to, thought > I would get to, decided not to get to, want to get rid of, etc. Maybe > I'll compile a list of stuff to offer to the list. I don't have > anything too exotic, However. From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Apr 11 15:30:03 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: I have to say that this is one of the most interesting topics that we have discussed lately and it ereminds me why I actually joined the list in the first place! Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people are looking for.. For instance, I would really like to get a hold of a GRiD laptop - one of the 15xx series (386/486's). I have a GRiDcase 3 and really like it but it isn't really a daily useable computer - more of a collectors item. I could squeze Linux or NetBSD on a newer one and have an indestructable workstation. Slightly off topic (not quite 10), but I am also looking for an inexpensive Multia for a project I am working on. Also looking to get a hold of another smaller Vax or two (really like those), and an HP 9000/3xx as well. -Linc Fessenden From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed Apr 11 15:20:02 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: Message-ID: <033d01c0c2c4$ca3dcc00$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:23 PM Subject: RE: New find: Headstart Explorer > Headstart had a cd to load it with and most people neither have the CD nor > do they have the boot floppy for the cdrom. I retored one back to factory > load about 3 yrs ago but I've since lost all ties with where the Headstart > links have gone. > Russ, are you sure we're talking about the same computer? 8088-based XT clone by Vendex? CD drives were pretty expensive in the mid-to-late 1980s, and it wasn't at all common for software to come on a CD. Additionally, I didn't see anything like a CD-ROM connector when I took the beast apart. Maybe you're thinking of a [Compaq,Dell,Gateway] "Headstart" program, where the OS and software (usually MS-Works) were pre-loaded at the factory, as an aid to newbies? Cheers, Mark. From pbboy at mindspring.com Wed Apr 11 15:40:34 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3AD3AC3F.27113BBD@internet1.net> <3AD4BD9B.B3E000F0@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AD4C142.5DDB621B@mindspring.com> Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hmm, let me see if I can think of all the other stuff I have, now that I > see everyones lists are so long. > > -TI PRO <----anyone want this, I don't! No keyboard, monitor, or OS, Is it a small case, approx 4" x 9" x 12"? If it is I have one of those too, completly forgot about it. I don't have anything else for it either, just the box. Do you have the power supply for it? I do want to get it running, just because it is a TI, but I can't find any accessories for it anywhere. Robert From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Apr 11 15:49:11 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010410205243.01e5bcb0@208.226.86.10> <3AD436EC.EA3FB96A@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: <002301c0c2c8$dd529b00$030101ac@boll.casema.net> This is my list including the currently used PC's ..... cheating ;= ) --Minicomputers Pdp 11/05 w. 8Kwords Core memory Pdp 11/20 Pdp 11/34 LSI 11/02-11/23 uVAX II w 2x RD54, EXA-8200x TK50 running VMS 5.2 --Workstations Sun 3/80 (Sun 3x) Sun Sparcstation 1+ (Sun4c) Interpro 2430 (Clipper C400 kryptonite) --PC's AMD K6-2 - 300 (Windoz 98 WS) INTEL PII - 350 (Windoz 98 WS) AMD-K6 - 233 running @ 250 (Linux WS) INTEL MMX - 200 (Server) INTEL Advance PI # 133Mhz (Linux router, webserver) INTEL System R w. AM586 CPU @ 133 Mhz Various PI & 486 systems Philips YES Apple Mac LC II XT-clones (2x) Grundy Z80 CP/M Kaypro II CP/M --Homecomputers Sinclair Zx 81 Sinclair Zx Spectrum Sinclair QL (soon) C64 Apple IIe Apple IIc MSX1 Toshiba MSX2 (Philips) (2x) Sharp MZ 721 --Portable & Handheld Atari Pocket PC Psion 3a Palm V Nec 8201a (M100 clone) Epson PX8 (CP/M in ROM) Laptop IBM Luggable 5155 .. kinda portable ;-) Lynx 286 (Brick) Epson 286 portable Advance P1 @133 --Calculators TI 59 TI 56c TI Programmer Various HP calc. --Homebrew, Scavenge & Development Electuur SC/MP singleboard development kit 6809 system TMS 9900 Systemrack --Small Boards, CPUs & Chips Clipper Chipset (C100 or 200) AMD 2903 4x + 2910 Bitslice set 1802 COSMAC chips (2x) NS 32032 chip Loads of 8088 8086 and NEC V20 chips Loads of 286 Boards A few 386 & 486 Boards A few M68000 chips 68000 Boards (2x) TRW multiplier chip Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------------- Oh am I a packrat! Space is becoming problem Lucky me. I'm NOT married! ------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx From kevan at heydon.org Wed Apr 11 16:07:37 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: SMS 1000 up for grabs in UK Message-ID: I have an SMS 1000 (A PDP 11/73) that I no longer want. It is populated with a M8192-YB (11/73 cpu) card and a MSV11-R memory card made by General Robotics Corp. There is an internal harddisk and both a 5 1/4" and 8" floppy drives. It runs RT-11 and has a set of RT-11 manuals including: 1A, 2, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3A, 3B, PDP11 FORTRAN 77 & RT-11 Mini Ref. Manual. It really has to go so I will split up if someone wants only parts from it. The manuals will end up in the paper recycling bins at work if nobody wants them. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 16:06:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Apr 11, 1 03:16:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1676 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/35c8df25/attachment.ksh From kevan at heydon.org Wed Apr 11 16:10:39 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I remember the thing called a Retrographics VT640 (I think). It was an > add-on board that fitted inside a VT100 and which gave Tektronix > graphics. You still had the normal VT100 text display, which could be > overlayed on the graphics output. I have one of these boards. If anybody wants it then let me know. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 11 16:11:23 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The 50 pin with the hooks on the side is actually referred to as a > Centronics 50 pin, or SCSI-I (external SCSI as well on older machines before > SCSI-2 came along) What are colloquially referred to as Centronics connectors are, I believe, properly called Ribbon connectors, derived from the name "Blue Ribbon" that Amphenol gave them originally. - don > Most companies in the way back used either what was cheap or had specials > made up just to keep you coming to them for cables, connectors, etc. Why > does Apple had a different AUI port than anyone else? Why are there 9 pin > and 25 pin RS-232's.....Why is Apple's on an 8pin mini-din? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:53 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > > > What's causing all the confusion here is the nomenclature. > > First of all, > > > there's only one Centronics connector I've ever seen and that's > > a 36-conductor > > > type. It was made for Centronics, which was at one time, a > > pretty good printer > > > > Are you sure the 36 pin one was _made_ for Centronics? I've seen the 14, > > 24 and 50 pin ones on equipment a lot older than Centronics printers, and > > I wouldn't be suprised if the 36 pin one wasn't used somewhere else as > > well. Back then, it wasn't that common to have a custom connector made up > > if there was a standard part that would do the job. > > > > After all, 36 pins is not an ideal fit for the Centronics interface. > > IIRC, there are some unassigned pins. If they were going to have it > > custom-made, they could have had a 30 or 32 pin one made instead. > > > > > maker, though the Centronics line was pretty much killed off by > > the much better > > > and less costly substitutes imported for the PC market some > > years before there > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. > > Prior to SCSI fame, > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > > DD50 connector. > > > > > it was, and still is, widely used in the telecom business. Not > > being a telecom > > > type, I'm not aware of a generic name for that type of connector. > > > > Nor am I. HP called the 50 pin one a '50 pin Telco connector' at one > > point. But I've never heard that name used for any of the smaller ones. > > > > Over here the catalogues are split between 3 'generic' names for this > > series of connectors : > > 'Centronics' (after the most popular use for the 36 pin one) > > 'IEEE-488' (after the most popular use for the 24 pin one) > > 'Amphenol' (after the company that IIRC first made them, even though they > > make many other types of connector). > > > > I tend to buy them by stock number :-) > > > > > SCSI, however, in its various versions, uses connectors ranging from the > > > well-known and popular DB25 ( and a special smaller variant for > > APPLEs ) to the > > > > Well, the Mac+ used a normal DB25 for the SCSI port, just with a > > different pinout to that which some other companies used at about the > > same time... > > > > -tony > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 16:09:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics In-Reply-To: <3AD4B542.668C2300@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Apr 11, 1 01:49:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1009 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/69854945/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 11 16:15:31 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > For those who are griping about the drive, Worcester does have a small > > airport. Many commuter shuttles and smaller commercial aircraft fly in and > > out on a regular basis. Hotels abound in Worcester as well... > > What about facilities for those choosing more reasonable means of long > and short distance transporation, such as train stations and boarding > stables? Going by horse? - don > > By the way, do I get any points for suggesting Worcester? :-) > > Yes, as in the points surrounding a bulls-eye painted on you so that > we can keep score when the pieces of buck-shot, or at least peas from > pea-shooters, start heading your way for choosing such an annoyingly > distant location for most people on the east coast - and for > suggesting that the festival be held on the wrong side of the > Mason-Dixon line. :-) > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: > All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 11 16:22:17 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: Message-ID: <3AD4CB08.AE90A233@kcinter.net> Vendex was bought by Philips Electronics. I am a service center for Philips, I could ask if any info is still available if anyone is interested. Bill Claussen elecdata1 Russ Blakeman wrote: > Headstart had a cd to load it with and most people neither have the CD nor > do they have the boot floppy for the cdrom. I retored one back to factory > load about 3 yrs ago but I've since lost all ties with where the Headstart > links have gone. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Robert > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:46 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > > > > My wife's family still has one although I don't know if her > > younger brother has > > 'experimented' with it yet. It worked when I saw them last and I > > know they had > > a bunch of games and programs for it. It ran what looked like a > > version of > > windows. I can ask if they still have any programs for it. > > > > Robert > > > > Mark Gregory wrote: > > > > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > > > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). > > It's an 8088, > > > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, modem (300 > > > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port > > all on the > > > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay for an MFM > > > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the > > hinged keyboard > > > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's a single ISA > > > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor > > available that > > > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > > > > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding keyboard, a > > > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style > > mouse and heavy > > > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could > > tell, there > > > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take > > the system > > > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, and the name > > > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > > > > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this > > thing, that > > > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any > > additional info > > > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why > > oh why do > > > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > > > and the HD was missing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mark Gregory > > From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 11 16:30:45 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer References: <033d01c0c2c4$ca3dcc00$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3AD4CD04.DD8E201A@kcinter.net> Mark You are correct, they did not come with cd Roms, Not any that I worked on. Most had a 40 meg drive if I remember right or it was an 80 meg I think. Bill Claussen elecdata1 Mark Gregory wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:23 PM > Subject: RE: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > Headstart had a cd to load it with and most people neither have the CD > nor > > do they have the boot floppy for the cdrom. I retored one back to factory > > load about 3 yrs ago but I've since lost all ties with where the > Headstart > > links have gone. > > > > Russ, are you sure we're talking about the same computer? 8088-based XT > clone by Vendex? CD drives were pretty expensive in the mid-to-late 1980s, > and it wasn't at all common for software to come on a CD. Additionally, I > didn't see anything like a CD-ROM connector when I took the beast apart. > > Maybe you're thinking of a [Compaq,Dell,Gateway] "Headstart" program, where > the OS and software (usually MS-Works) were pre-loaded at the factory, as > an aid to newbies? > > Cheers, > Mark. From west at tseinc.com Wed Apr 11 16:36:19 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) My List References: Message-ID: <002601c0c2cf$730e26e0$ec8953d1@fozzie> Here's a partial list.... just what I could see easily. There's a ton more buried where I can't see it. It's not grouped or in any order, so if you see duplicates it's because I have more than one of an item (if the duplicates were right together, then I put in a quantity, but there may be more elsewhere in the list of gear)... I'd be happy to talk trades with folks for stuff I need... And don't laugh older classicmp'ers, I've only been doing this a little over 2 years...*grin* HP RTE system (2113E cpu, 7912 disk/cart tape, 7906H disk) HP RTE system (2113E cpu, 9114 cart tape, 7957 disk) DEC PDP 11/73 system (11/73 cpu, Kennedy 9600 mag tape, RX50, several RD52's) DEC PDP 11/73 system (11/73 cpu, RX50 dual 5.25 floppy, RD52 disk, external RD52 disk, external TK25) DEC RX02 dual 8" floppy drive in a cute little pedestal roller, with outlet strip and counter top for a terminal DEC VT220 terminal DEC LA36 printing terminal DEC LA120 printing terminal DEC DF03 modem (god I'd just about kill to have the big brother to this, the one with like 12 modems in it) About 3 other external DEC RD52's Another DEC TK25 tape drive a couple bare DEC RX50's (3) DEC VT100 terminals TI 810 printer LSI terminal Televideo terminal Mime ACT IV keyboard w/ 9" monitor HP2621A terminal Too many spare boards, cables, power supplies, etc. to mention M4 Data 3200/1600 tape drive (SCSI version) DEC PDP-8E rack version (I need at least one more 8K core board for this, or maybe a 32k RAM board??) DEC PC05 paper tape punch (one day I'll get it converted to PC04) Decitek paper tape reader HP2108A cpu (missing some boards in the power supply) HP2113B cpu HP12979B I/O extender chassis HP2113B cpu DEC TU56 tape drive (I need a few parts for this bad!!!!!) DEC RL02 drive DEC PDP-11/44 cpu (need a dectape and some boards for this one to get it up) HP 2748B paper tape reader HP2895B paper tape punch HP 10137C disk controller chassis HP 10137C disk controller chassis HP 2109B cpu Zenith winchester disk system (tabletop, dual 8" floppies, might be an HD internal too) 3rd party disk system for zenith's (dual 8" floppies) DEC TU10 tape drive with TM11 module in a gorgeous dual bay DEC rack HP2000 Access system (includes HP2100A cpu, HP2100S cpu, 2748B paper tape reader, 7900A disc drive, 13215A drive power system, 7970E mag tape) ASR33 (this one is for parts. SOMEONE could probably get it working, not me) Apple ][+ (2) Apple ][e (5) Disk ][ drives Heathkit ET3400 trainer Various composite monitors for the apples (both color & green) Corona Data Systems PPC400-12 (4) Heath H89's (a few of these may be 91's, not sure) Heath H19 terminal (3) Heath H77 dual 5.25 floppy dirves (2) DEC PDP-11/23's And just arriving..... (3) Heath H89's (2) Heath H8's Heath H19 Heath H29 Plus a bunch of heath spares, drives, docs, etc. From kapteynr at cboe.com Wed Apr 11 16:50:34 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DCBD@msx1.cboe.com> I have been lurking here for a while, thinking about getting into the field. None of you seem to be in and around Chicago ?? Anyway, I have a nice start with the computers that I bought when they were new. MITS Altair 8800 (early model with the short panel switches) -- this includes a number of hand-made wire-wrapped gadgets, original box (very tattered), original MITS invoices, original assembly manuals (for the kit), and Microsoft's first version of Altair BASIC on paper-tape with the original manual. It all worked about 15 years ago. Fortune Systems 32:16. Fortune attempted to mass-market a 68000-based unix box. A great machine -- but it was introduced a few months before the the IBM PC -- which doomed it. I also have a lot of mac stuff, including an early Mac II; a PowerMac 6100/60, various PCs. I also have a number of old industrial PLCs -- Modicon, Allen Bradley, GE Series One. From catman at dia.net Wed Apr 11 16:53:21 2001 From: catman at dia.net (Steve Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: USR Sportster 56k x2 In-Reply-To: <200104101551.KAA06116@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200104101551.KAA06116@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Howdy, Yesterday I went to a couple of secondhand stores in town. I was excited to find a U.S. Robotics 56k x2 Sportster Modem with the original box (for a Macintosh) for one dollar! I have an identical one that I use & I was glad to get another one to upgrade my Mom's Mac from 33.6k to 56k. I figured it would be easy to update it to v.90 with the USR Update Wizard because that's what I did to mine a couple of years ago. WRONG! The server that the Wizard dialed has a busy signal. After searching on the web for half an hour, I finally tried calling U.S. Robotics. After sitting on hold for 20 minutes & being asked stupid questions for another 10, I finally got my answer. That update server has been down for 4 months ever since USR & 3Com split the sheets. So I asked if I could get a disk to use (the updater can update via phone or disk). NO! Unavailable! So imagine my chagrin now when my bargain modem is hobbled at 56k x2. I think it is only connecting at 33.6k, but Remote Access reports "unknown speed". Would anybody have the disk that the Update Wizard needs to bring me to v.90. Also, I found a Amstrad PC1512 & a Visual Commuter Computer. Are these collectible or just more ordinary PC clones? Thanks, Steve C. Williston, ND From djg at drs-esg.com Wed Apr 11 17:05:23 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Henk Gooijen's PDP-11 prints online In-Reply-To: <200104111601.LAA29655@opal.tseinc.com> from "classiccmp-digest" at Apr 11, 2001 11:01:58 AM Message-ID: <200104112205.SAA03513@drs-esg.com> > From: John Foust > At 10:35 PM 4/10/01 -0400, David Gesswein wrote: > >The software I use to make my tiff files available as PDF will convert > >them. > >ftp://ftp.pdp8.net/software/c42pdf/ > > So this tool just creates a simple PDF containing all the G4 TIFFs? > Yes > This morning I was looking at the 20K+ scanned pages of documents > I received recently. They're all G4 TIFF, about 800 megs worth. > The scans are quite clean, but it's just directories of loose files, > page0001.tif, page0002.tif, etc. > The tiffcp program I use with it will combine separate tiff pages into one document. > TIFF-based multi-page single-linked PDFs would be good, but > OCR'd and searchable in conjunction with the bitmap would be even better. > > I've got Acrobat 4.0 for my Mac G4, but that doesn't OCR, does it? > I played with OCR a while ago and none were accurate enough that you didn't need to spend a lot of time cleaning up if you were only using the OCR output. They also had problems maintaining format but did pretty good if you went to PDF. PDF does have an ability to store documents with both the bitmap for viewing/printing and OCR text to allow searching etc. Adobe capture is the big one for that but expensive. Pagis used to support it and was inexpensive but dropped that capability. Links from when I was looking. Since I still had/have lots of documents left to scan I decided fancy features which take time can wait. http://web3.humboldt1.com/~jiva/ocr/_ocr_resource.htm http://cpdf.adobe.com/index.pl/4224310545.38939?BP=NS http://www.pdfzone.com/ Let me know what you find that you like. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights From ewy at southwind.net Wed Apr 11 17:09:33 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <3AD4D61D.330D6259@southwind.net> LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > I have to say that this is one of the most interesting topics that we have discussed lately and it ereminds me why I actually joined the list in the first place! > > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people are looking for.. Well, I would like to get ahold of any kind of Motorola 68K machine that can run Linux/68K. No good reason, but the people on this list should be able to sympathize, if not understand. I guess my Performa 636 could if I can bring myself to pay the money I will have to pay to replace the brain-damaged LC040 with one posessing an FPU, though I hear rumor that the floating point emulation is a little better these days. The Mac hardware isn't well supported though. I would really rather run it on a beefed-up Amiga or Atari ST. Unfortunately, the ones that have any chance of doing so are still too precious for me to get my grubby hands on. I don't have any Atari computers, so I'd love to get a couple of them. Somebody once released a free design for an '020 upgrade for the A1000, called LUCAS (Little Ugly Cheap Accelerator System) back when an '020-16 was hot stuff. I've been thinking about adapting that design to an '030(has integral MMU)/'881 combo, which could be capable of running Linux. Would also need to adapt a DRAM controller circuit, like the one from Ingo Cyliax's '030 workstation design in order to have enough RAM to do anything useful. Amigas and Ataris are a lot easier to hack (hardware-wise) than Macs. -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 17:09:11 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer In-Reply-To: <3AD4CB08.AE90A233@kcinter.net> Message-ID: He's right and I thought up the names/locations I was thinking of after I sent the last post. When I had to reload the last one Phillips still had a file/info base on the web intheir support area, not sure that they still do. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of bill claussen > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:22 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > Vendex was bought by Philips Electronics. I am a service center > for Philips, I > could ask if any info is still available if anyone is interested. > > Bill Claussen > elecdata1 > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Headstart had a cd to load it with and most people neither have > the CD nor > > do they have the boot floppy for the cdrom. I retored one back > to factory > > load about 3 yrs ago but I've since lost all ties with where > the Headstart > > links have gone. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Robert > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:46 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > > > > > > > My wife's family still has one although I don't know if her > > > younger brother has > > > 'experimented' with it yet. It worked when I saw them last and I > > > know they had > > > a bunch of games and programs for it. It ran what looked like a > > > version of > > > windows. I can ask if they still have any programs for it. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > Mark Gregory wrote: > > > > > > > I came across a neat little PC/XT clone on the weekend, a Headstart > > > > Explorer (made by Vendex according to some Web info I found). > > > It's an 8088, > > > > with an unusual level of integration: mono/CGA video card, > modem (300 > > > > bps?), serial port, parallel port and external disk drive port > > > all on the > > > > motherboard. There's an internal 720K 3.5" drive, and a bay > for an MFM > > > > drive. Comes in an unusual pseudo-portable case, where the > > > hinged keyboard > > > > folds up and stores upside down on top of the case. There's > a single ISA > > > > slot under a cover on top. Apparently, there was a monitor > > > available that > > > > came with a custom stand that fit neatly over the desktop case. > > > > > > > > It has several features I've not seen before: the folding > keyboard, a > > > > mono/colour switch on the video output, and the PS/2 style > > > mouse and heavy > > > > integration on a clone of this vintage. Also, as far as I could > > > tell, there > > > > was no trace of the manufacturers name anywhere. I had to take > > > the system > > > > to pieces to find the Headstart Explorer name on the PCB, > and the name > > > > Vendex wasn't on it anywhere. > > > > > > > > Does anybody have the custom version of DOS that came with this > > > thing, that > > > > supposedly included a very annoying shell program, or any > > > additional info > > > > about this beast? I didn't get any manuals or docs with it (why > > > oh why do > > > > thrift stores never keep system components together?) > > > > and the HD was missing. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark Gregory > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 17:15:23 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from "LFessen106@aol.com" at "Apr 11, 1 04:30:03 pm" Message-ID: <200104112215.PAA11782@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people are looking> for.. For instance, I would really like to get a hold of a GRiD laptop I have an old 1530 that works (although the battery is probably not in good shape). Interested? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Greek tailor shop: "Euripedes?" "Yes -- Eumenides?" ------------------------ From at258 at osfn.org Wed Apr 11 17:15:01 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, the down side is that since it's not on the Corridor, Worcester has only one round trip Amtrak schedule a day, to Albany I think. The plus is the Ararat restaurant on Burncoat Street, which is about the only thing I can think ofto go to Worcester for. The Higgins Armoury is pretty cool, though. On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > For those who are griping about the drive, Worcester does have a small > airport. Many commuter shuttles and smaller commercial aircraft fly in and > out on a regular basis. Hotels abound in Worcester as well... > > By the way, do I get any points for suggesting Worcester? :-) > > Rich B. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 17:17:21 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: New find: Headstart Explorer In-Reply-To: <033d01c0c2c4$ca3dcc00$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: Yup, they were 8088 or 8086 but came out around the time of the PS/2 and were essentially a cheap Eduquest. (Nothing wrong with Eduquest, my daughter runs a 35 w/95 on our network). They came with a sound card, cdrom (1x or 2, can't remember) and I believe they also had a 286 model. They ran on DOS with a GEM-like GUI and came with all sorts of neat programs and had lo-res VGA as well. I just called the guy that I worked on it for and he had given it away to a collector after he popped $4500 for a PIII-800 laptop and his kids got tired of the thing. He even remebered the CD it had and the fun he had restoring it without the cdrom driver, and having to look all over the net then for it. I believe it had a Mitsumi interface drive linked to the sound card. >From what I gathered they were expensive for what you got but schools, daycare, mom & pop and others blindly bought them in the name of "education". > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mark Gregory > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:20 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:23 PM > Subject: RE: New find: Headstart Explorer > > > > Headstart had a cd to load it with and most people neither have the CD > nor > > do they have the boot floppy for the cdrom. I retored one back > to factory > > load about 3 yrs ago but I've since lost all ties with where the > Headstart > > links have gone. > > > > Russ, are you sure we're talking about the same computer? 8088-based XT > clone by Vendex? CD drives were pretty expensive in the mid-to-late 1980s, > and it wasn't at all common for software to come on a CD. Additionally, I > didn't see anything like a CD-ROM connector when I took the beast apart. > > Maybe you're thinking of a [Compaq,Dell,Gateway] "Headstart" > program, where > the OS and software (usually MS-Works) were pre-loaded at the factory, as > an aid to newbies? > > Cheers, > Mark. > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 17:17:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll have to dig but it was always referenced as a CENTRONICS-36 or CENTRONICS-50 in our MIL-STD books and HP manuals when I was a missile/eleectronics tech in the AF, until 95 when I retired. I keep contact with a former coworker in OK that works for a contractor for the ACM/ALCM project office and he has tons of references in his office and might be able to locate it and fax or attach a copy to me. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:07 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > The 50 pin with the hooks on the side is actually referred to as a > > Centronics 50 pin, or SCSI-I (external SCSI as well on older > machines before > > SCSI-2 came along) > > Do you have a reference for that (note : after the long discussion we had > a couple of weeks back on the D-connector names, I am not going to take > 'Well %company call them that in the catalogues' as a reference)? > > > Most companies in the way back used either what was cheap or > had specials > > made up just to keep you coming to them for cables, > connectors, etc. Why > > does Apple had a different AUI port than anyone else? Why are > there 9 pin > > and 25 pin RS-232's.....Why is Apple's on an 8pin mini-din? > > We went through this a few weeks back, didn't we? As I understand it : > > The Apple AUI port is different partly because it uses a 5V supply rather > than the 12V one on a standard AUI port. So I guess it makes sense to > have a different connector. We can argue for months whether Apple should > have stuck to the standards, though. > > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. > > And Apple used the 8 pin mini-DIN on the Mac+ and later because there > wasn't room for the DE9 connector used on the earler Macs. Hardware > hackers have been complaining ever since -- those mini-DINs are about the > worst connectors in the world to wire! > > -tony > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Apr 11 18:29:18 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010410212331.4377cf42@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010411182918.3d47a99c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:00 PM 4/11/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >> Bill, >> >> It will probably work since the charging voltage of the battery is >> certainly higher than the 15 volts that you would get from using alkaline >> or carbon-zinc batteries. > >Some machines use the battery as a shunt regulator -- that is to say they >rely on the fact that the voltage across the battery pack, even when >charged from a supply _capable_ of giving out a higher voltage, will be >limited. This is one reason why many HP and TI calculators may be damaged >if you connect the charger without a battery pack in place. Tony's right. You should have the battery in place when trying this. You'd probably be safe leaving the battery out if you used a power supply with the output set at a safe voltage (~ 1.2 to 1.5 Volts/cell) but don't try this with a standard charger. They're seldom regulated and you could fry something. Leaving the dead battery out and trying to run a HP 2xC calcualtor on the charger alone is THE biggest cause of dead HP 2xC caculators. > >For the original poster, if you insist on using normal primary batteries >(1.5V each), I would start with only 8 of them in series, which should >give you 12V. I would not put 10 in. I have seen devices made with a >battery holder that will take 10 AA cells, and which are supplied with 2 >dummy batteries (plastic rods the size of a AA cell, with metal contacts >at the end that are shorted togehter). If you use primary batteries you >use 8, and the 2 dummy batteries to fill up the empty slots. If you use >NiCds, you use 10 of them. > >I am told that some HP calculators (the Woodstock HP21 series, for >example) can be damaged if you put primary batteries into the battery >pack. Now, I know how the Woodstock PSU should work (it's a little >transformer-based transistor oscillator with regulation taken from one of >the outputs), and I don't see why it wouldn't regulate properly at 3V >input rather than 2.4V input. But I certainly am not going to risk it :-) FWIW I don't recommend it but I've run Woodstocks at 3 VDC and even a little above. A FULLY CHARGED GOOD NiCad will often put out up to 1.55 volts/cell when they're new therefore a new Woodstock battery pack can have up to 3.1 VDC. Joe > >-tony > > From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 11 17:25:07 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: Hayes Transet 1000 Message-ID: Today I picked up a Hayes Transet 1000, and I don't know anything about it! It comes in the classic Hayes extruded aluminum case with black plastic caps on either end. It is one of the older products as it uses the 13.5vac wall-wart. The panel at the user end has 8 LED indicators and 3 pushbutton switches. The indicators are numbered and identified from left to right as listed below: 1 PWR 2 RDY 3 MRK 4 RPY 5 A 6 B 7 C 8 D The switches are lettered and identified as follow: X SELECT Y MARK Z REPLAY At the 'business' end there are three D-sub connectors in assition to the 3-pin AC power connector. The D-subs are as follow: 15s PORT P1 9p PORT S1 9s PORT S2 Does anyone have any information about this critter - better yet, documentation - or ever used one? Thanks! - don From west at tseinc.com Wed Apr 11 17:33:31 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:09 2005 Subject: large load (cont) FOLLOWUP References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> from Jay West at "Apr 9,1 12:54:19 pm" Message-ID: <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> More info on that bunch of micros (nonpc) out in arizona. I talked to the person out there again and they agreed to let me post their direct email address. It is fnweird@earthlink.net There's sooooo much I could say about that email address, but I'll just leave that one alone ;) Anyways... it is definitely arizona, not australia. I forget the city name, but the city name "sounds" like brisbane or something like that. Also, I would really just prefer to stay out of this one - so if anyone contacted me recently (or wants more info now & in the future) please refer to the above email address instead of me. My opinion is they have too high of a value in mind on these systems. They're definitely selling them 1zies 2zies, you don't have to buy the whole lot. The superpets seem to command the most money, she said she's gotten about 4 takers so far at $200 each. The apple/trs-80 stuff she was talking from $50 to $150 (sounded like she was hoping for the high end). That sounds like too much money to me, but - for someone on this list that is desperate to add that last missing system to their collection, maybe it would be worth it. Here's more info (very sketchy) on what they have...(bear in mind this stuff is totally out of my area, so pardon any obvious typos or nomenclature). 6 to 7 superpets SP9000 4 to 5 pet 4032 3 to 4 cbm 8032 several dual ext floppys (8050) 6 to 8 single 2031's 4 to 5 c64's 6 datacasettes units for cbm (C2N?) commie 4022 ptr ventel model 1200 modem a bunch of monitors 7 trs-80 III w/48k 1 trs-80 IV w/64k 8-10 trs-80 w/64k Pet 4016 11 cbm 4023 printers 2 cbm 2022 printers 6 tandy 1000SX's 7 tandy 1000's DMP200 printer DMP430 printer hazeltine 17xx terminals BMC800 Viasyn Dataframe 20/Supermax There there was some huge texas intruments thingy, she said it was a minicomputer?? She said there was a bunch of apple stuff too From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Apr 11 17:39:45 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: WGBH Video References: Message-ID: <3AD4DD31.C3C597F9@heathers.stdio.com> Russ, Yup! They said it was no longer available. The operator even gave me a couple of other numbers to try with no luck. Too bad as it was a nice set. A lot of great old footage. Brian. Russ Blakeman wrote: > Have you tried contacting WGBH in Boston? They may still offer it in certain > formats. > > http://www.wgbh.org/ > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of brian roth > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:39 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: WGBH Video > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video > > series "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by > > WGBH for Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since > > misplaced it. It hasn't been available for purchase for a while > > as I understand. > > > > Brian. > > > > > > Brian Roth > > Network Services > > First Niagara Bank > > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > > -- ?????? From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 17:41:41 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DCBD@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: I was bron and raised in Chicago if that counts (grin). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Rob Kapteyn > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:51 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Collection list (just for phun) > > > I have been lurking here for a while, thinking about getting into the > field. > > None of you seem to be in and around Chicago ?? > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Apr 11 17:50:01 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD4D61D.330D6259@southwind.net> from Joel Ewy at "Apr 11, 1 05:09:33 pm" Message-ID: <200104112250.PAA11080@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >Well, I would like to get ahold of any kind of Motorola 68K machine that can >run Linux/68K. Why not NetBSD on the Macintosh 68k? Great OS, small, flexible. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my personalities each need therapy." ----- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 17:59:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010411182918.3d47a99c@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 11, 1 06:29:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3413 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010411/d79074fd/attachment.ksh From west at tseinc.com Wed Apr 11 18:01:29 2001 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <200104112250.PAA11080@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <015101c0c2db$58c7f660$ec8953d1@fozzie> I agree cameron - I'll take any of the xBSD varieties over linux. Particularly FreeBSD, but also openBSD, netBSD, etc. Jay West "Unix *IS* user-friendly, it's just picky about who it calls a friend" ----- Original Message ----- From: Cameron Kaiser To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) > >Well, I would like to get ahold of any kind of Motorola 68K machine that can > >run Linux/68K. > > Why not NetBSD on the Macintosh 68k? Great OS, small, flexible. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- "I'd love to go out with you, but my personalities each need therapy." ----- > From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 11 18:17:18 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <006001c0c2dd$96522260$87731fd1@default> I'm 6 hours from there by car and do drive down and then look for systems. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: RE: Collection list (just for phun) > I was bron and raised in Chicago if that counts (grin). > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Rob Kapteyn > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:51 PM > > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > > Subject: RE: Collection list (just for phun) > > > > > > I have been lurking here for a while, thinking about getting into the > > field. > > > > None of you seem to be in and around Chicago ?? > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 11 18:23:21 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 Message-ID: <015801c0c2de$c75468e0$dd789a8d@ajp166> From: Bill Pechter >> Megan Gentry >> Former RT-11 Developer > >Wanna provide 2-meter talk in? > >Bill >N2RDI If she dont I can. ;) There are a potload of repeaters in the region wil excellent coverage too. Allison KB1GMX ---- and the gimmics are all mine---- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 11 18:15:16 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <015701c0c2de$c6d28eb0$dd789a8d@ajp166> List it be: All system listed are fully operational with perpherals. Loose boards and spares not included nor are PCs even though many are classic. Allison S100 based systems ------------------------------- Altair 8800 Processor Tech SOL NorthStar* Horizon (2) CCS2200 Compupro Z80 Explorer 8085 Killer an S100 machine of my design (z80s, 8085, 8048) Z80 based Packaged or Single board based Systems ----------------------------------------- AmproLB Kaypro 4/84 NS* Advantage Epson PX-8 laptop Visual 1050 (2) DEC Vt180 (several) Tandy TRS-80 Micromint SB180 Single board computers ---------------------------------- Kim-1 Motorola 6800 D1 SC/MP SC/MP-II NIBBLE (tinybasic) RCA COSMAC ELF Intersil 6960 6100 sampler (cmos PDP-8) IMSAI IMP48 Technico Superstarted board TI9900 cpu MultiBUS based ------------------------ Hurikon ml92 (z80 based) Intel MDS800 MISC systems --------------------- TI99/4a (3) tandy COCO-III PDP-11 based systems ---------------------------------- DEC Pro350 DEC Pro380 DEC LSI 11/03 DEC PDP 11/23 DEC PDP11/23B BA11VA with TU58 and 11/23 VAX based ---------------- MicroVAX-II BA23 MicroVAX-II/GPX BA123 MicroVAX 2000 (3) MicroVAX 3100/M10E (3) MicroVAX 3100/M76/spx PDP-8 Based -------------------- Decmate-III (2) PDP-8/f Terminals ------------- Vt100 Vt125 Vt320 Vt340 VT1200 H19 From dlw at trailingedge.com Wed Apr 11 18:34:58 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Places in Denver Message-ID: <3AD4A3D2.1196.1FD8047@localhost> I'm traveling up to Denver from Houston soon and wanted to see if anyone knew of some places to check out for old systems while I was there? What are the good thrift store chains there? Any other places? Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 11 18:32:29 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) My List In-Reply-To: <002601c0c2cf$730e26e0$ec8953d1@fozzie> References: <002601c0c2cf$730e26e0$ec8953d1@fozzie> Message-ID: So Jay, you were the St. Louis collector that snagged that Heath/Zenith stash? Good job! Jeff >And just arriving..... >(3) Heath H89's >(2) Heath H8's >Heath H19 >Heath H29 >Plus a bunch of heath spares, drives, docs, etc. -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 18:37:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <000b01c0c2e0$5340ea80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The 50-position type was around for a long time, i.e. I remember them back in the early '70's and they weren't new then, in use with telecom gear. I've no idea whether the 36-position variety was made_for_Centronics, but it's the only connector that I've ever seen used on a genuine Centronics parallel interface, be it on a Centronics, Printronix, Okidata, (not the toys found attached to a PC, but the real "line-printers" ) or whatever sort of printer. The interface used on the PC parallel port does not precisely conform to the Centronics standard, and was the first one I saw using a different connector. The point is that while the connector isn't exclusive to that interface, the interface is exclusively dedicated to that connector, to wit, it's still what's used on printers, even though everybody knows it's only going to be attached via a DB25 at the computer end. The 24-position type is used on HPIB, though I doubt there aren't other applications. I've seen others as well, but nobody who's been around refers to the 50-pin, 24-pin, or anything else other than the 36-pin version of this particular connector series as a Centronics connector without risk of ridicule. I think one U.S. manufacturer (Amphenol ???) made these under the "Blue Ribbon" moniker, though I can't find any old enough connector catalogs to prove it. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > What's causing all the confusion here is the nomenclature. First of all, > > there's only one Centronics connector I've ever seen and that's a 36-conductor > > type. It was made for Centronics, which was at one time, a pretty good printer > > Are you sure the 36 pin one was _made_ for Centronics? I've seen the 14, > 24 and 50 pin ones on equipment a lot older than Centronics printers, and > I wouldn't be suprised if the 36 pin one wasn't used somewhere else as > well. Back then, it wasn't that common to have a custom connector made up > if there was a standard part that would do the job. > > After all, 36 pins is not an ideal fit for the Centronics interface. > IIRC, there are some unassigned pins. If they were going to have it > custom-made, they could have had a 30 or 32 pin one made instead. > > > maker, though the Centronics line was pretty much killed off by the much better > > and less costly substitutes imported for the PC market some years before there > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. Prior to SCSI fame, > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > DD50 connector. > That's the one widely used by SUN. It's a better connector, but since they didn't make a crimp-onto-ribbon-cable version until very late in the game, it was not adopted as the standard. I do believe it's in the standard by now, though, and that some firms other than SUN are using it. > > > it was, and still is, widely used in the telecom business. Not being a telecom > > type, I'm not aware of a generic name for that type of connector. > > Nor am I. HP called the 50 pin one a '50 pin Telco connector' at one > point. But I've never heard that name used for any of the smaller ones. > > Over here the catalogues are split between 3 'generic' names for this > series of connectors : > 'Centronics' (after the most popular use for the 36 pin one) > 'IEEE-488' (after the most popular use for the 24 pin one) > 'Amphenol' (after the company that IIRC first made them, even though they > make many other types of connector). > > I tend to buy them by stock number :-) > > > SCSI, however, in its various versions, uses connectors ranging from the > > well-known and popular DB25 ( and a special smaller variant for APPLEs ) to the > My mistake ... I was thinking about their FD connector, (?) or whatever it was, some sort of almost-B-shell with only room for 19 pins. > > Well, the Mac+ used a normal DB25 for the SCSI port, just with a > different pinout to that which some other companies used at about the > same time... > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 18:46:38 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <001701c0c2e1$a6b84c20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 2:16 PM Subject: RE: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > The 50 pin with the hooks on the side is actually referred to as a > Centronics 50 pin, or SCSI-I (external SCSI as well on older machines before > SCSI-2 came along) > I've seen that too, but the folks making the reference don't know their butt from a hot rock. Centronics never (at least as far as I have seen) used that common 50-pin version that looks like the 36-pin version they had named after their popular application. 20 years ago things were much clearer in this regard because you didn't have idiots selling and advertising things they didn't understand at all. Sadly, that's no longer the case. > > Most companies in the way back used either what was cheap or had specials > made up just to keep you coming to them for cables, connectors, etc. Why > does Apple had a different AUI port than anyone else? Why are there 9 pin > and 25 pin RS-232's.....Why is Apple's on an 8pin mini-din? > In the "way back" an apple was something you had in your lunch sack, not on your desktop. The evolution of the "Apple computer" coincides more or less with the beginning of the end of intelligible conversation about such matters. The justification for such things was probably cost and size, but "real" AUI still lives on a DA-15 connector. Back in those days, RS232C spelled out the signal levels and the signal names, and their functions, though quite inadequately, and it wasn't the EIA that authorized the use of the DE9 for RS232-compatible communcation, thoguh I don't know why, in view of the fact that only DB25-pins 2,3, and 7 were required to get the job done. Even today, lots of people talk about RS232 when they're really talking about asynchronous serial communciation. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:53 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > > > What's causing all the confusion here is the nomenclature. > > First of all, > > > there's only one Centronics connector I've ever seen and that's > > a 36-conductor > > > type. It was made for Centronics, which was at one time, a > > pretty good printer > > > > Are you sure the 36 pin one was _made_ for Centronics? I've seen the 14, > > 24 and 50 pin ones on equipment a lot older than Centronics printers, and > > I wouldn't be suprised if the 36 pin one wasn't used somewhere else as > > well. Back then, it wasn't that common to have a custom connector made up > > if there was a standard part that would do the job. > > > > After all, 36 pins is not an ideal fit for the Centronics interface. > > IIRC, there are some unassigned pins. If they were going to have it > > custom-made, they could have had a 30 or 32 pin one made instead. > > > > > maker, though the Centronics line was pretty much killed off by > > the much better > > > and less costly substitutes imported for the PC market some > > years before there > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. > > Prior to SCSI fame, > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > > DD50 connector. > > > > > it was, and still is, widely used in the telecom business. Not > > being a telecom > > > type, I'm not aware of a generic name for that type of connector. > > > > Nor am I. HP called the 50 pin one a '50 pin Telco connector' at one > > point. But I've never heard that name used for any of the smaller ones. > > > > Over here the catalogues are split between 3 'generic' names for this > > series of connectors : > > 'Centronics' (after the most popular use for the 36 pin one) > > 'IEEE-488' (after the most popular use for the 24 pin one) > > 'Amphenol' (after the company that IIRC first made them, even though they > > make many other types of connector). > > > > I tend to buy them by stock number :-) > > > > > SCSI, however, in its various versions, uses connectors ranging from the > > > well-known and popular DB25 ( and a special smaller variant for > > APPLEs ) to the > > > > Well, the Mac+ used a normal DB25 for the SCSI port, just with a > > different pinout to that which some other companies used at about the > > same time... > > > > -tony > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 18:53:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <003901c0c2e2$a0507a00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Anything's possible for the military establishment, but I'd not bet on it being right more than 1 ppm. This connector family is not old enough, methinks, to be in any military standards. After all, they still love those nearly $1k/each in 100k quanatity 38999-series connectors and they still require that the wire be #16 and soldered. A reference in a military document doesn't make it right. You need a Centronics document. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:17 PM Subject: RE: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > I'll have to dig but it was always referenced as a CENTRONICS-36 or > CENTRONICS-50 in our MIL-STD books and HP manuals when I was a > missile/eleectronics tech in the AF, until 95 when I retired. I keep contact > with a former coworker in OK that works for a contractor for the ACM/ALCM > project office and he has tons of references in his office and might be able > to locate it and fax or attach a copy to me. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:07 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > > > The 50 pin with the hooks on the side is actually referred to as a > > > Centronics 50 pin, or SCSI-I (external SCSI as well on older > > machines before > > > SCSI-2 came along) > > > > Do you have a reference for that (note : after the long discussion we had > > a couple of weeks back on the D-connector names, I am not going to take > > 'Well %company call them that in the catalogues' as a reference)? > > > > > Most companies in the way back used either what was cheap or > > had specials > > > made up just to keep you coming to them for cables, > > connectors, etc. Why > > > does Apple had a different AUI port than anyone else? Why are > > there 9 pin > > > and 25 pin RS-232's.....Why is Apple's on an 8pin mini-din? > > > > We went through this a few weeks back, didn't we? As I understand it : > > > > The Apple AUI port is different partly because it uses a 5V supply rather > > than the 12V one on a standard AUI port. So I guess it makes sense to > > have a different connector. We can argue for months whether Apple should > > have stuck to the standards, though. > > > > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. > > > > And Apple used the 8 pin mini-DIN on the Mac+ and later because there > > wasn't room for the DE9 connector used on the earler Macs. Hardware > > hackers have been complaining ever since -- those mini-DINs are about the > > worst connectors in the world to wire! > > > > -tony > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 18:51:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <000b01c0c2e0$5340ea80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 11, 1 05:37:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/56f2dab4/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 11 18:55:18 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Hayes Transet 1000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > Today I picked up a Hayes Transet 1000, and I don't know anything about > it! It comes in the classic Hayes extruded aluminum case with black > plastic caps on either end. It is one of the older products as it uses > the 13.5vac wall-wart. > > The panel at the user end has 8 LED indicators and 3 pushbutton > switches. The indicators are numbered and identified from left to right > as listed below: > > 1 PWR > 2 RDY > 3 MRK > 4 RPY > 5 A > 6 B > 7 C > 8 D > > The switches are lettered and identified as follow: > > X SELECT > Y MARK > Z REPLAY > > At the 'business' end there are three D-sub connectors in assition to > the 3-pin AC power connector. The D-subs are as follow: > > 15s PORT P1 > 9p PORT S1 > 9s PORT S2 > > Does anyone have any information about this critter - better yet, > documentation - or ever used one? > > Thanks! > - don In addendum to my own email, I did what I should have done first and dumped the EPROM. The TRANSET is a Mailbox based on a 68008P8 processor, a R6522P, a Z8530PS, and 16 MCM6665BP20 (64k? chips). The EPROM speaks to a printer, which likely uses the P1 port with the orphan connector. Guessing that the Sn ports connect to input/output, but not sure in what form. - don From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 19:01:59 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Places in Denver References: <3AD4A3D2.1196.1FD8047@localhost> Message-ID: <004301c0c2e3$cb8aa640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There once were lots of decent thrift stores, but, over the course of the past year or so, there seems to have evolved some sort of corruption. The best thrift store in Denver is the ARC (Association of Retarded Citizens) chain store on South Broadway. What's been happening far and wide is that the folks in the stores are stripping the systems of hard drives, memory, and interesting boards and marking the remainder at above market prices. The result is that they end up in the dumpster, after not selling for several weeks, where the help later snags the, for whatever purpose. Where, a couple of years ago, I used to see all manner of MAC's for example, Quadras, LC-whatevers, (I neither know nor care about MAC's but I do know they aren't mix and match like PC's.) etc, for $5-10, now they're priced at $50-$60, which is more than a truckload is worth, since most don't work. Moreover, it's a problem for MACs because the keyboards, monitors, and mice are normally separated from the systems they came in with, and sold at a premium price in addition to the ridiculous price for the main box. You never know, though, and you'll not find much if you don't look. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Williams" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:34 PM Subject: Places in Denver > I'm traveling up to Denver from Houston soon and wanted to see if > anyone knew of some places to check out for old systems while I > was there? What are the good thrift store chains there? Any other > places? > > Thanks. > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Apr 11 19:10:05 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: <3AD4A3D2.1196.1FD8047@localhost> from "David Williams" at Apr 11, 2001 06:34:58 PM Message-ID: <200104120010.SAA25358@calico.litterbox.com> Here in Colorado Springs is a place called OEM Computers. Very good stuff. > > I'm traveling up to Denver from Houston soon and wanted to see if > anyone knew of some places to check out for old systems while I > was there? What are the good thrift store chains there? Any other > places? > > Thanks. > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 11 19:16:37 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <005101c0c2e5$d71ee780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I had a Radio Shack Quick Printer II, which, IIRC, was a narrow, roll-fed electrostatic erosion printer that used aluminum-foil coated roll paper about 5" wide. I used it to label my parts cabinets. Being a repackaged Centronics printer, it had the usual 36-pin Centronics connector. Centronics was using that 36-pin connector before Radio Shack ever contemplated getting into the compuer business. It was on the Printronix P100 we had on our Wang 2200 MVP back in '75. The very first time I ever saw a real parallel printer cable that didn't use the Centronics standard 36-position connector at both ends was on a PC, in 1981. Prior to that, the "toy" interface used by the Apple II was the only non-homemade one I saw in use on a commercial system. That was understandable in view of the package size constraints, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:51 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > The 50-position type was around for a long time, i.e. I remember them back in > > the early '70's and they weren't new then, in use with telecom gear. I've no > > idea whether the 36-position variety was made_for_Centronics, but it's the only > > connector that I've ever seen used on a genuine Centronics parallel interface, > > At the printer end, probably (although there were a _few_ pre-PC printers > that used a card edge or a header plug for a Centronics-like interface -- > the Radio Shack Quick Printer 2 was one such IIRC). > > At the computer end, there were many connectors used. Some companies used > the 36 pin Blue Ribbon (I believe that _is_ the correct name). Others > used a header plug or a card edge, normally pinned out so that an IDC > ribbon cable with no twists could be used to link it to the 36 pin > connector at the printer end. Things like the 34 pin card edge on the old > TRS-80s, for example. > > > be it on a Centronics, Printronix, Okidata, (not the toys found attached to a > > PC, but the real "line-printers" ) or whatever sort of printer. The interface > > used on the PC parallel port does not precisely conform to the Centronics > > The PC printer port was designed to link to the 5152 printer which was a > badge Epson IIRC. That's why the interface is not _exactly_ Centronics. > > > standard, and was the first one I saw using a different connector. The point is > > that while the connector isn't exclusive to that interface, the interface is > > exclusively dedicated to that connector, to wit, it's still what's used on > > printers, even though everybody knows it's only going to be attached via a DB25 > > at the computer end. > > Round here it might be _anything_ at the computer end :-) > > > there > > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. Prior to SCSI > > fame, > > > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > > > DD50 connector. > > > > > That's the one widely used by SUN. It's a better connector, but since they > > And others. The Ill-fated PERQ AGW3300 (aka PERQ3a) has a DD50 SCSI > connector on it. > > > didn't make a crimp-onto-ribbon-cable version until very late in the game, it > > For SCSI, I've neve seen anything bu the crimp-on IDC type. The pinout of > SCSI-1 using that connector was chosen so you could crimp a DD50 onto a > normal SCSI ribbon cable and get the right connections. > > Of course this doens't mean the connector didn't come out relatively late > -- I have no idea when the IDC version of the DD50 was first produced. > > -tony > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Wed Apr 11 19:20:52 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <20010411.102854.-229369.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: A short list: Systems, most classic: DECsystem 5400 - Ultrix VAXstation 3100 M76 - OpenVMS 7.2 DECsystem 5000/260 - netbsd - not classic? DECstation 5000/240 - nothing/dead RZ57, thinking of putting PMAG in /260 RS/6000 220 - AIX 4.1.5 DEC Infoserver 100 - ESS i686 - Linux/windows - not classic i686 - Windows/Linux - not classic i286 Compaq "laptop" - DOS WYSE 150? terminal (wired to downstairs, only item I have allowed out of the basement) Classic parts: CXY-08 QBUS MUX Misc DSSI disk drives Misc SE SCSI disk drives Misc FWD SCSI disk drives in HP6000SX shelves HSC70 bits and pieces External Winchester Systems DSSI-SCSI converter DEC R215F disk cabinet several DEC H7868 power supplies DEC TZ87 tape DEC TLZ07 tape Exabyte 8200 tape several TK70 drives several IBM 7207 1 series tape drives IBM 7207 2 series tape drive Wanted, ordered by decreasing interest: HP3000 / DEC Alpha MicroPDP11 HP9000 -- From jss at ou.edu Wed Apr 11 19:40:48 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? (Was: large load (cont)) In-Reply-To: <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> "from Jay West at Apr 9,1 12:54:19 pm" <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> Message-ID: <987036048.3ad4f9901a3d6@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jay West : > There there was some huge texas intruments thingy, she said it was > a minicomputer?? She may be correct, you never know. My parents have tought high school math and science for years, and when I was in grade school, I ended up hanging around at the high school nearly every day after school for several years. The following story is from, roughly, my fifth and sixth grade years (1989-1991 or so). At the time, the school had a bunch of Apple IIe and IIc machines (I have one of the IIes) and some TI-99/4As. Now, the TIs were the cooler machines to me, at least because they were the most mysterious. The elderly computer teacher didn't know how to use them, so they just sat there, and no one was ever taught how to use them. I figured out where the cartridges were and how to play some games on them (I liked this skiing game I believe), but not even I investigated what lay beyond. For that mistake, I paid dearly. What lay beyond was, I suspect, a TI minicomputer. On the floor at the right end of the table that had the 99/4As was a single tall cabinet, just the right size and proportions to have been a six-foot rack cabinet. The cabinet was black, and it had a black metal door (I believe) over the entire front that kept whatever was inside safe from meddling students. I don't know what was on the back, as it was pushed up against a wall. The following evidence supports the theory that it was a minicomputer: (1) The teacher told me it was a big, old computer that the 99/4As connected to in some way (terminals?). She *may* have used the word 'mainframe'. (2) On the day it was removed (see below), I saw a disk pack. The teacher told me it was a hard disk platter, and that's how hard disks used to work -- with removable platters. I held the pack, ooed and ahhed over it for a few seconds, and gave it back to the teacher. My PC at home had a full-height 5.25" 10MB IBM hard drive, and I was amazed at how big the pack was (probably 14"). (3) Some of the 5.25" floppies that were used in the Apple IIs had "AT&T UNIX System V" labels on them. The labels were frequently covered over by a white paper label with the disk's real contents scribbled in the teacher's chaotic hand. Now for the sad part. One day when school was out after the sixth grade, I happened to be hanging out at the high school while my parents did their yearly inventory. Naturally, I headed over to the computer lab to play some Mystery Museum or some game like that. When I got there, they were in the process of removing every computer in the room. I was dismayed, but my fears were relieved when I was told that they were putting in a pile of new Macintoshes (whatever they were) and that they would be cooler and more fun than the Apples and TIs. It was at this time that I was given the disk pack to inspect. If I could have only seen the future for a split second, I would have offered them money for the machine and snatched it right up. Alas, no revelation came, and I watched them as they carted the cabinet down the hall. I never saw the machine again. Actually, I never saw the machine at all. Its door was always shut, and the teacher always referred to it fearfully ("Oh, you don't want to mess with that..."). It sat there and was never used, and then one day it left forever. A year or so ago, I went back there and searched the entire school for it, but it was nowhere to be found. One maintainence worker told me that it had been in his building for several years, and he had recently taken it in his truck and dumped it into some farmer's ravine a few miles out of town. What the heck was that thing? Was there ever a TI minicomputer that used 99/4As as terminals? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 19:35:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <005101c0c2e5$d71ee780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 11, 1 06:16:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/acb87e93/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 11 19:45:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <001701c0c2e1$a6b84c20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 11, 1 05:46:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2366 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/b7563ad1/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Apr 11 20:59:15 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010411182918.3d47a99c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010411205915.3b4f40b2@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:59 PM 4/11/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >Some machines use the battery as a shunt regulator -- that is to say they >> >rely on the fact that the voltage across the battery pack, even when >> >charged from a supply _capable_ of giving out a higher voltage, will be >> >limited. This is one reason why many HP and TI calculators may be damaged >> >if you connect the charger without a battery pack in place. >> >> Tony's right. You should have the battery in place when trying this. >> You'd probably be safe leaving the battery out if you used a power supply >> with the output set at a safe voltage (~ 1.2 to 1.5 Volts/cell) but don't > >I would be careful using anything above 1.2V/cell. I've seen machines >(the HX20 is one such) were there are 4 NiCd cells (nominally 4.8V, of >course) connected to the +5V line. And that's the _only_ regulation in >the machine. Hmmm. How do they charge the battereis? 5 vdc isn't enough to charge 4 NiCads. Do they take them out and charge them outside the circuit. > >Now admittedly, the machines that do this generally use CMOS chips which >are reasonably forgiving about mild overvoltage. But still I'd not want >to risk it. > > >> try this with a standard charger. They're seldom regulated and you could >> fry something. Leaving the dead battery out and trying to run a HP 2xC >> calcualtor on the charger alone is THE biggest cause of dead HP 2xC >> caculators. > >Is this the case with HP 3x machines (Spice/Spike) as well? No, I don't think so. At least not a series problem. However the Spice and Woodstock chargers will not supply enough current to operate the calculators without the batteries. The problem with the HP 2xC models is that the RAM is connected directly to the battery in order to keep the Continous memory alive. When you remove the battery and try to run the calculator off the standard charger you're putting up to 18 volts directly into the RAM. Poof! There goes all the magic smoke! AFIK this is only a problem in the 2xC models since they are they only only models that connect the circuits directly to the battery (and the chargng circuits) and not through an internal power supply. The charger >circuit and battery pack seems to be electrically identical, and the >machine's PSU is similar. In any case, I am not going to risk it. > >Of ocurse in the -C (continuous memory) models, there is a backup feed >from the battery pack to (one of) the power pins on the RAM chip. >Normally, the battery voltage (+3V) is lower than the running voltage >(+6V-ish, from the switching coverter circuit), so it's OK. But plug the >charger in without the battery and that line will rise to about 10V (and >there's almost no load on it to pull the output down). That is going to cook >that RAM chip. Exactly. That's why there are so many 2xC models around that have a display but no memory, not even the X, Y and Z registers. > >I have a nice bench PSU -- 0-30V, 0-10A. I use that for testing machines >with the battery pack removed -- set to 1.2V/cell of course. This seems >to be as safe as using the original battery. It's even safer IMO since you can set the current limit low enough to prevent doing any damage even in the event of a short. I have a small 0-20 volt 400 Ma HP supply that I use for testing all my calculators. > > >> >I am told that some HP calculators (the Woodstock HP21 series, for >> >example) can be damaged if you put primary batteries into the battery >> >pack. Now, I know how the Woodstock PSU should work (it's a little >> >transformer-based transistor oscillator with regulation taken from one of >> >the outputs), and I don't see why it wouldn't regulate properly at 3V >> >input rather than 2.4V input. But I certainly am not going to risk it :-) >> >> FWIW I don't recommend it but I've run Woodstocks at 3 VDC and even a > >From what I remember, the Woodstock PSU outputs a +ve Vss (about >+6.something voltes), a -ve bias supply and a lower +ve supply for the >display driver. The first output can't be less than the battery voltage >(It's a switching converter -- if the transistor is turned off all the >time, the Vss output is effectively connected to the battery by one >winding on the transformer). The same might apply to the display output >(which is lower, but still around 4V IIRC). I doubt very much if the >circuit will have problems running on 3V input. > >However, I have heard that Woodstocks don't like 3V batteries. And to be >honest, even though I can't see why there'd be a problem, I am not going >to try it. All the chips in the Woodstocks are HP-custom and >unobtainable, so I have to preserve all I can. I've never tried to run a Woodstock off of primary batteries so I don't know if there's a problem with that or not. I have run them off of regulated power supplies set at 3 V with no problem although I usually set the supply to about 2.4 volts. I'm guessing that perhaps primary batteries won't supply enough current for the Woodstock. They have an LED display so current draw is a bit high (~150Ma). The other odd thing that I've noticed is that is you have to have more current available or it won't start. I have to set my PS up to about 250 to 300 Ma if I remember correctly before the Woodstock will come on. After that the curerent drops to about 100 to 150 ma. Joe > >-tony > > From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 11 19:53:04 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Happy Easter. References: Message-ID: <002b01c0c2ea$ef209680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I'm noticing some pretty interesting discuion threads come up lately but will be holding off reading the list through until after E*. I expect there'll be about 500 msgs waiting then. till then.... Have a* Happy Easter. John A. From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 11 20:22:48 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Found Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens (CNC?) unit in our basement References: <28377.987020632@www54.gmx.net> Message-ID: <3AD50368.5348715D@internet1.net> Arno, Please don't send attachments to the list. This is bad form, in general, for any list. I think it is supposed to be worse than off-topic threads :-) Attachments can really slow down a mail transfer! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Arno Kletzander wrote: > I can't offer them on a homepage like all the others > (haven't got one yet); will it work if I simply send them to the list as an > attachment to one of my posts? From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 11 19:21:41 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: WGBH Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video series > "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by WGBH for > Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since misplaced it. > It hasn't been available for purchase for a while as I understand. Hmmm, I'd be interested in a copy of this as well. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Apr 11 20:38:37 2001 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <015701c0c2de$c6d28eb0$dd789a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: I started collecting systems only about 2 1/2 years ago...my objectives were to get all the computers I could't afford as a kid....I was one of the early youngsters growing up starting with the 1977 TRS-80 model I...it was well out of my (and family's) price range...not to be deterred, I learned programming by hanging around Radio Shack while my Mom shopped...after a couple of years when my father figured out I wasn't outgrowing my computer "phase" he bought me one in 1981, a TRS-80 Model III 48K 2DD for $2500 with an insurance settlement. (2x) Commodore PET 8K 2001 (1 works; other needs to be debugged) (2x) Apple Lisa 2/10 (working 10mb widget hard drives!) (3x) TRS-80 Model I (EI, floppies etc.) (12x!) Commodore PET 8032/4032 etc. with 8250 fdd (long story) TRS-80 Model III (my first machine) Leading Edge Model D (my first employer) Akkord Jonathan (probably the only real reverse engineered Mac clone out there ~1991) Northstar Advantage IBM ThinkPad with Go! Operating System NEC UltraLite Autograph (prototype pen machines) Heathkit H89 Nextstation Osborne One Apple Mac SE Apple II+ Atari 800 (2x) Commodore 64 SpectraVideo SV328 (in bad shape) Casio Zoomer HP 200LX (my PCMCIA software runs on this) What I still need to get: - Kim-1 or similar microprocessor trainer - S100 Computer - Ohio Scientific (any) - Processor Technology SOL From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Apr 11 20:48:47 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Some machines use the battery as a shunt regulator -- that is to say they > rely on the fact that the voltage across the battery pack, even when > charged from a supply _capable_ of giving out a higher voltage, will be > limited. This is one reason why many HP and TI calculators may be damaged > if you connect the charger without a battery pack in place. Hmmm... Are you are saying that running the machine from the AC brick with no battery in place will damage it? If this is the case, then the damage is done. I've run it for 20+ hours with no battery in place. The diagnostic screen indicates that the machine is aware that no battery is present. > For the original poster, if you insist on using normal primary batteries > (1.5V each), I would start with only 8 of them in series, which should > give you 12V. A little creative wiring and, voila! it works with 8... for about 10 minutes and then goes down. Diagnostic screen indicates battery voltage of 10.6 volts with 8 new AAs. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 11 20:24:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Dongle, invented by Don Gall? In-Reply-To: <20010411140623.85293.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: >> > BTW While talking to someone at the Santee swapmeet, he told me the >>origine >> > of the word dongle is from the person who invented the short adapter >> > cables, Don Gall. Fact or fiction? > >I first heard the term dongle in reference to a joystick-port security >device for a game on the C-64. This would have been c. 1982. Even then, >the legendary "Don Gall" was a persistent rumor. I think someone else >on the list has already expounded the marketing aspect of the name. >From http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/dongle.html Note: in early 1992, advertising copy from Rainbow Technologies (a manufacturer of dongles) included a claim that the word derived from "Don Gall", allegedly the inventor of the device. The company's receptionist will cheerfully tell you that the story is a myth invented for the ad copy. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Apr 11 20:43:01 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DCBD@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411204214.01e8c1a0@pc> At 04:50 PM 4/11/01 -0500, you wrote: >None of you seem to be in and around Chicago ?? I'm halfway between Madison and Milwaukee, and there are several others on this list in those cities. - John From rdd at smart.net Wed Apr 11 21:03:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > What about facilities for those choosing more reasonable means of long > > and short distance transporation, such as train stations and boarding > > stables? > > Going by horse? Alas, no; I'm too far away from there to attempt that. Going by horseback would have one definite advantage for those who are running out of free-space: one couldn't bring much equipment back that way - especially if riding in an English saddle. :-) Out of curiosity, if one who lives nearby wanted to ride there, are horses (with diapers - don't laugh, they make these for horses for such purposes!) allowed inside? Are other pets allowed inside? I never quite understood human babies and children being allowed in various places while pets are not allowed - as pets are no less hygenic and they're often better behaved... reminds me of the time I was forced out of the UMBC library - over my strong objections, just because I had my dog with me (someone complained about her). Travelling by choo-choo would be the most feasible method of reaching that distant destination for me; my preference would be to travel by steam locomotive; however, that's probably an impossibility. Is there a train station in that town that one can reach from Baltimore? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 21:00:25 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <005101c0c2e5$d71ee780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Many of the older Tandy/Radio Shack printers used the header and card edge connectors, or serial, as well. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:17 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > I had a Radio Shack Quick Printer II, which, IIRC, was a narrow, roll-fed > electrostatic erosion printer that used aluminum-foil coated roll > paper about 5" > wide. I used it to label my parts cabinets. Being a repackaged > Centronics > printer, it had the usual 36-pin Centronics connector. > > Centronics was using that 36-pin connector before Radio Shack > ever contemplated > getting into the compuer business. It was on the Printronix P100 > we had on our > Wang 2200 MVP back in '75. The very first time I ever saw a real parallel > printer cable that didn't use the Centronics standard 36-position > connector at > both ends was on a PC, in 1981. Prior to that, the "toy" > interface used by the > Apple II was the only non-homemade one I saw in use on a > commercial system. > That was understandable in view of the package size constraints, however. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:51 PM > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > The 50-position type was around for a long time, i.e. I > remember them back > in > > > the early '70's and they weren't new then, in use with > telecom gear. I've > no > > > idea whether the 36-position variety was made_for_Centronics, > but it's the > only > > > connector that I've ever seen used on a genuine Centronics parallel > interface, > > > > At the printer end, probably (although there were a _few_ > pre-PC printers > > that used a card edge or a header plug for a Centronics-like > interface -- > > the Radio Shack Quick Printer 2 was one such IIRC). > > > > At the computer end, there were many connectors used. Some > companies used > > the 36 pin Blue Ribbon (I believe that _is_ the correct name). Others > > used a header plug or a card edge, normally pinned out so that an IDC > > ribbon cable with no twists could be used to link it to the 36 pin > > connector at the printer end. Things like the 34 pin card edge > on the old > > TRS-80s, for example. > > > > > be it on a Centronics, Printronix, Okidata, (not the toys > found attached to > a > > > PC, but the real "line-printers" ) or whatever sort of printer. The > interface > > > used on the PC parallel port does not precisely conform to > the Centronics > > > > The PC printer port was designed to link to the 5152 printer which was a > > badge Epson IIRC. That's why the interface is not _exactly_ Centronics. > > > > > standard, and was the first one I saw using a different > connector. The > point is > > > that while the connector isn't exclusive to that interface, > the interface is > > > exclusively dedicated to that connector, to wit, it's still > what's used on > > > printers, even though everybody knows it's only going to be > attached via a > DB25 > > > at the computer end. > > > > Round here it might be _anything_ at the computer end :-) > > > > > there > > > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old > SCSI-1 uses a > > > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics > type. Prior to > SCSI > > > fame, > > > > > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), > SCSI-1 used a > > > > DD50 connector. > > > > > > > That's the one widely used by SUN. It's a better connector, > but since they > > > > And others. The Ill-fated PERQ AGW3300 (aka PERQ3a) has a DD50 SCSI > > connector on it. > > > > > didn't make a crimp-onto-ribbon-cable version until very late > in the game, > it > > > > For SCSI, I've neve seen anything bu the crimp-on IDC type. The > pinout of > > SCSI-1 using that connector was chosen so you could crimp a DD50 onto a > > normal SCSI ribbon cable and get the right connections. > > > > Of course this doens't mean the connector didn't come out > relatively late > > -- I have no idea when the IDC version of the DD50 was first produced. > > > > -tony > > > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Apr 11 21:15:16 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: <005a01c0c21b$6a9c2f20$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <3AD50FB4.60FFD22F@idirect.com> >Billy D'Augustine wrote: > I have an external SCSI drive, which I want to connect to the external SCSI > port of my VAX 4000/60. The SCSI drive has a 50 pin connector. The VAX has a > 50 pin centronics female. I'd like a cable to go between the two. Jerome Fine replies: With all the comments about the types of centronics cables, did you find the cable you want? If not, I might be able to help, but you still have not specified the computer end of the cable carefully enough. I assume that if both ends of the cable were the same (50 pin centronics male - i.e. the external drive has the normal 50 pin centronics female), you would have said so. This type of cable is almost always used to connect two external drives to each other and extend the SCSI daisy chain since most external SCSI drives have two 50 pin centronics female connectors. If hope that what I have said is not confusing. I have a number of external Sony SMO S501 magneto optical drives and one one occasion I wanted to connect four drives to the host adapter in the computer. The cable to the first drive has a 50 pin centronics male connector at the external drive end. The extension cable has two 50 pin centronics connectors - one at each end - and is used to connect the first external drive to the second external drive. Two more of these double ended cables (50 pin centronics male at both ends) are then used to connect the 3rd and 4th external drives. The only cable that is different is the cable with the end attached to the host adapter. Since this is not a closed up system (the side panels are always off), I just used a cable with a 50 pin female header on the end and attached it directly to the SCSI host adapter in the computer what has a 50 pin male header connection. What you have not specified thus far is what the VAX connection consists of! I presume it is a 50 pin connection. Is it centronics? Male or female? Is it a header? Male or female? Is it something else. On most systems where a direct connection is made to the host adapter (which often has a 50 pin male header connection on the host adapter), a flat cable is used. If you need a shielded round cable, you also need to specify that aspect as well. I am not trying to be picky, but I can think of about 12 different cables that have a 50 pin male centronics at one end and something else at the other end. Do you think you could let us know exactly what you are looking for? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ip500 at home.com Wed Apr 11 21:20:36 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <3AD510F4.248AC16D@home.com> I've got a bunch of HP-3000 bits and pieces available. Several tall [6'] racks full .. mainly card cages and PS's. HEAVY! Location is Roanoke, VA. Craig Paul Thompson wrote: > > A short list: > > Systems, most classic: > > DECsystem 5400 - Ultrix > VAXstation 3100 M76 - OpenVMS 7.2 > DECsystem 5000/260 - netbsd - not classic? > DECstation 5000/240 - nothing/dead RZ57, thinking of putting PMAG in /260 > RS/6000 220 - AIX 4.1.5 > DEC Infoserver 100 - ESS > i686 - Linux/windows - not classic > i686 - Windows/Linux - not classic > i286 Compaq "laptop" - DOS > WYSE 150? terminal (wired to downstairs, only item I have allowed out of > the basement) > > Classic parts: > > CXY-08 QBUS MUX > Misc DSSI disk drives > Misc SE SCSI disk drives > Misc FWD SCSI disk drives in HP6000SX shelves > HSC70 bits and pieces > External Winchester Systems DSSI-SCSI converter > DEC R215F disk cabinet > several DEC H7868 power supplies > DEC TZ87 tape > DEC TLZ07 tape > Exabyte 8200 tape > several TK70 drives > several IBM 7207 1 series tape drives > IBM 7207 2 series tape drive > > Wanted, ordered by decreasing interest: > > HP3000 / DEC Alpha > MicroPDP11 > HP9000 > > -- From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Apr 11 21:20:51 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff References: <3AD348D7.799D8548@kcinter.net> Message-ID: <3AD51103.666192B4@idirect.com> >Bob Brown wrote: > I have an h8 that I have no s/w, no schematics, no docs or anything else for. > >Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc > >for the H8. > >>"McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > > > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > > > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > > mmcfadden@cmh.edu Jerome Fine replies: I have watched to this thread and I have a question. I have heard that the Heath hardware might be able to run a modified RT-11 form the PDP-11. Is this true and is so, what modifications were needed? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Apr 11 21:26:59 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? (Was: large load (cont)) References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> "from Jay West at Apr 9,1 12:54:19 pm" <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> <987036048.3ad4f9901a3d6@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AD51273.75DE357@dragonsweb.org> > What the heck was that thing? Was there ever a TI minicomputer > that used 99/4As as terminals? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu I have a dim recollection of some kind of 990 used basically as a file server for cartridge software that was downloaded to a special GRAM cartridge, I think, on the 4A. Something along those lines. It was also used at one or more of the early '80s CES shows, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if it was a serial data link or what, but I think the cartridge titles showed up on the console menu screen. I may be confusing some of this with the hard disk setup for the 4A that TI used internally. You don't suppose you could get that maintenance guy to show you where the machine is and check if there are any salvageable parts, if you get a chance, do you? jbdigriz From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Apr 11 21:28:06 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Arizona trip Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> (Crossposted to CLASSICCMP and the milsurplus list) My mate and I will be visiting friends in Tucson around the end of May. While there, I aim to do some scrounging! I'm less interested in computer hardware (with one notable exception -- specifically, an Intermec bar-code label printer, direct thermal species) than I am in test equipment and radio hardware, both mil-surplus and commercial. In fact, I have need of a good source for used aircraft-type circuit breakers (the pop-button type, both DC and AC) at this time. Suggestions for scrounge stops in the Tucson/Phoenix area would be appreciated. Please keep in mind that I'll only have one day to do this. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 21:31:21 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <008901c0c257$79ea10a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <002401c0c2b2$915974a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AD51378.BA1B906B@mindless.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Look "good" ... ??? ... Depends on your preferences, I guess. > > A big part of the question of HOW to go about fixing this is to answer the > question of whether your goal is to restore the KIM-1 to its original condition > for historical authenticity or whether you'd just as soon have something that > works well instead. Operational is the main thing, but I'd be thrilled to restore it if the opportunity came up. My main interest in the KIM and other really simple machines is as a hands-on demo of what being a computerist was like in the early days of microcomputers, before the keyboard, box, and monitor paradigm took hold. Extra points for toggle switches too. :) I've seen interest in the thing from visitors who are into computers, and so far all were less "what a quaint but completely prehistoric piece of junk" than "wow, I can't believe a machine with 1/1000th the CPU speed and 1/64,000th the memory can play Hunt the Wumpus and other games and they're even a little fun." :) It's a tribute to doing an amazing amount with what by modern standards seems preposterously little, and I think preserving this realization is part of what being "into" classic computers can be about. > If the former is your goal, then you've a lot of hunting to > do, but may eventually find out how to modify some other product to fit the > application. On the other hand, there are lots of available keypads, or, if you > prefer, lots of available individual keyswitches with removable/clear-capped > tops, that you can build a really decent and servicable keypad that you can > attach to the auxilliary connector in order to substitute it for the original > without having first to remove the existing keypad. It seems to me that they > should work quite well in parallel. Okay. I try the regular electronics outlets. I'll try specifically keyboard manufacturers (ALPs, Cherry, etc. I guess) and see what I can dig up. > > > I don't know that Commodore actually fabricated the keypads themselves, and, in > fact, rather doubt it, so it's likely someone, somewhere, will have used a > similar keypad, or, at least, similar switches, so that will provide you with > amusement at swapmeets and junk sales. Moreover, if you haven't yet looked at > third-party switch catalogs, I'd certainly recommend that so you can explore > replacing the keypad with a possibly more durable and/or convenient, yet > cosmetically similar keypad. > > This will require some serious head-scratching. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:17 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ethan Dicks > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a > > particular > > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. > > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > > > > > > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step) and > > RS (reset). > > > > I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and they're > > working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons > > involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting > > with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick, > > but what would look good. > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Apr 11 21:29:03 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: vt100 & graphics References: Message-ID: <3AD512EF.36346A29@idirect.com> >Kevan Heydon wrote: > > I remember the thing called a Retrographics VT640 (I think). It was an > > add-on board that fitted inside a VT100 and which gave Tektronix > > graphics. You still had the normal VT100 text display, which could be > > overlayed on the graphics output. > I have one of these boards. If anybody wants it then let me know. > Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ Jerome Fine replies: OK! I will bite. But what can you do with one of these boards? Namely, what were the commands and what were the results? Or more to the point, how were the programs written and how fast could the results be displayed - assuming that something like a square could be displayed without each pixel being needed to be specified. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mbg at world.std.com Wed Apr 11 21:33:55 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 Message-ID: <200104120233.WAA26482@world.std.com> >Wanna provide 2-meter talk in? I know there are a bunch of good local repeaters... a few are run by the group at WPI... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 21:38:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: WGBH Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I went to the Nova subsite under PBS.com and they have all sorts of Nova episodes on tape and DVD but no mention of the one he's looking for. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:22 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: WGBH Video > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video series > > "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by WGBH for > > Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since misplaced it. > > It hasn't been available for purchase for a while as I understand. > > Hmmm, I'd be interested in a copy of this as well. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 11 21:38:44 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:10 2005 Subject: Found Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens (CNC?) unit in our basement In-Reply-To: <3AD50368.5348715D@internet1.net> Message-ID: There are tons of free sites such as Geocities, NBCI, Tripod, FreeServers, etc for web pages. Freeservers lets you pick one of their domain names/extensions and then you put your own sub-domain name in front, such as mine where I picked "8m.com" and put "rbcs" in front of it so my home page is hosted free of charge at "rbcs.8m.com" which looks a little better than "members.tripod.com/~username/" and with Freeservers they don't need to put a WWW in front to make it work either. Small top of page banner, very non-intrusive and tasteful. They can do CGI forms and all sorts of other neat things but I don't think they support Frontpage Server Extensions. Businesses are even encouraged to use Freeservers. One bad thing - if you create a frames page, you'll get a banner in every frame. Use Tripod if you must do frames as the banner is in a pain-in-the-butt popup window. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:23 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Found Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens (CNC?) unit in our basement > > > Arno, > > Please don't send attachments to the list. This is bad form, in > general, for any list. I think it is supposed to be worse than > off-topic threads :-) Attachments can really slow down a mail transfer! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Arno Kletzander wrote: > > I can't offer them on a homepage like all the others > > (haven't got one yet); will it work if I simply send them to > the list as an > > attachment to one of my posts? From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 21:38:42 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids References: <20010409233701.RXQI29484.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <004401c0c1d6$1b7098e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <00ba01c0c259$d28fef20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <001101c0c2b6$9ab28100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AD51532.B24D416F@mindless.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Taken by itself, it wouldn't be annoying, but anyone who thinks so little about > what he posts that he has serious spelling/grammar/syntax errors in every post > needs to slow down and think before hitting the SEND button. > > Dick I guess that joke was so bad, it slid right under people. Hemmoroids. Anal retentive. Heh heh heh. :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:33 AM > Subject: Re: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard Erlacher > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > > > > > > You have GOT to get a spell-checker! > > > > --- Wondering if it isn't rather anal-retentive to worry > > about the spelling of hemmoroids? > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM > > > Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids > > > > > > > > > > I just thought we might start that thread for an ice breaker.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > > > President > > > > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > > > > 30 Greenwood Rd. > > > > Asheville, NC 28803 > > > > 828-277-5959 > > > > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > > > > THETechnoid@home.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 11 21:36:59 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> <008101c0c1d7$fea799a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <00a601c0c259$6ee8c3c0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <003201c0c2b4$7b0c9d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AD514CA.5623AA9A@mindless.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'd recommend that you not only replace the keypad with something more durable, > but that you buffer and parallel the LED display such that you can use some > significantly larger displays. That will provide you with flexibility in > packaging that the use of the existing display won't allow. It's lotsa work, > but that's what the hobby is about, isn't it? I gave that some thought. Suppose having BIG displays would be nice. I don't intend to input much data via the keypad -- I plan to take the best parts of my 65C02 microcontroller and add it to the KIM so you can use the PC as a rather fast tape drive. :) Still, it's cool to show people who are into computers how people hand-assembled their programs and typed them in, etc. :) AC in, a filtered DC supply, cassette I/O jacks, an RS232 port, and 32K RAM and secondary monitor ROM would all fit nicely within a box and protect the whole thing, so I like that idea very much. > > > The way to handle this might be to buy a scrap of aluminum sheet stock that's > about large enough to build a box that will hold the KIM-1, perhaps together > with a PSU, and, if you've any desire to do that, together with whatever > expansion hardware you want. Make sure it's sturdy enough for your purposes. > Obtain a hacksaw, shear, files, etc, and whatever else you think you'll need to > butcher the metal. Radio Shack once sold a really decent nibbler, that's the > easiest tool to afford for making oddly-shaped square-cornered holes for > keypads, displays, connectors, etc. It was a good tool so it's likely no longer > available. I bought two just to be safe. > > Purchase or fabricate a keypad, ABSOLUTELY NOT a membrane or otherwise prebuilt > matrix keypad, but rather, one with keyboard-type switches and removable keytops > to which you can see yourself applying some sort of decent-looking legends. > That way you have a maintenance path. It's not hard to hand-wire a set of > switches onto a piece of perf-board in a solid way that can be attached to the > underside of your aluminum top. I've done this sort of thing many times and if > you want "spiritual guidance" with respect to this, I doubt I'm the only one in > this forum who's got advice for you. > It sounds like I could manage this assuming there's a ready supply of individual keys somewhere out there -- and I figure this must be the case. Thanks a lot for all the ideas. -- Ross > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:31 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard Erlacher > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:04 AM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > > > > Funny you should ask. I studied the circuit in detail > > about two years back, and verified that closing the > > right pair of application connector pins caused the > > "broken" keys to register. I got busy, put the KIM > > away in a box and forgot about it until recently. > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Roger Merchberger" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:12 PM > > > Subject: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: > > > > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] > > > > > > > > >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > > > > >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > > > > > > > [ snip ] > > > > > > > > >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one > > of > > > > >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > > > > > > > > > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and > > disassemble > > > > >it to clean the contacts? > > > > > > > > I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my > > > > basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and > > I > > > > don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the > > > > next couple days if that'd help... > > > > > > > > Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... > > > > > > > > [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... > > > > > > > > HTH, > > > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > > > -- > > > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > > > > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > > > > > > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > > > > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 11 21:02:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Source for GRiD parts In-Reply-To: References: <200104111601.LAA29655@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >http://www.primelec.com/grid.html Lotsa parts, but high prices for a nominally $10 swapmeet laptops. Rob's Grid page has some older info, but I can't find the cheaper battery and/or ac adapter links I know I found a few months back. http://www.pd.com/gbother/wwwboard.html From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Apr 11 22:07:03 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: <004301c0c2e3$cb8aa640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010412030336.ZNCM10569.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Ed Kirby has a bunch (14?) Mac IIci machines with hdd, decent amount of ram etc for $75.00 a pop. Known to work. You pay shipping. Monitors available (about $100.00 each). Cables too. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jss at ou.edu Wed Apr 11 22:36:34 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? (Was: large load (cont)) In-Reply-To: <3AD51273.75DE357@dragonsweb.org> References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> "from Jay West at Apr 9,1 12:54:19 pm" <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> <987036048.3ad4f9901a3d6@email.ou.edu> <3AD51273.75DE357@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <987046594.3ad522c20f62a@email.ou.edu> Quoting "James B. DiGriz" : > You don't suppose you could get that maintenance guy to show you where > the machine is and check if there are any salvageable parts, if you get > a chance, do you? I'll check and get back to you. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Apr 11 22:45:32 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <20010412035033.BGZI10569.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I used to be NNN0NZE. We did a lot of traffic with NNN0NKF - or maybe it was the other way round'.... You might have heard me doing phone patches from Okinawa or Saudi Arabia. The bad guys shelled our Mars station though. No more phone patch. Just a collection of craters. The duty operator was in the can' which saved his life. Some times bowl movements are useful like that..... We ran the station out of a Connex box and had a Packrat packet radio modem that I though was neat as hell. Ran from a Zenith 286' box. BTW, The Iraqis also managed to shell the satellite phone system that ATT set up a few clicks away..... I guess they REALLY REALLY didn't want us phoning home. Glad that they had less interest in us COMING HOME. Thank God for that. Regards and thanks to you ham radio folks - you made our lives there more bearable. Jeff In <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129>, on 04/11/01 at 11:45 PM, Bruce Lane said: >Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From dpeschel at eskimo.com Wed Apr 11 22:53:55 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: WGBH Video In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Apr 11, 2001 09:38:46 PM Message-ID: <200104120353.UAA15519@eskimo.com> Brian Roth wrote: > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video series > > > "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by WGBH for > > > Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since misplaced it. > > > It hasn't been available for purchase for a while as I understand. Russ Blakeman wrote: > I went to the Nova subsite under PBS.com and they have all sorts of Nova > episodes on tape and DVD but no mention of the one he's looking for. Are you _sure_ it was produced for Nova? I'm sure each episode has an introduction designed specially for the show, rather than the Nova intro. (Yes, I have it on tape. But since I recorded it myself the quality's not as good as it could be. Courtesy of a friend, I _do_ know what the Latin words in the theme song mean! But I don't know if they were made up for the show or are a quotation.) -- Derek From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Apr 11 22:59:55 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <15060.45479.64688.856504@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > > would accept (too large). The Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island, Inc. (I am a member) has the following, some being personal machines in the collective (also from memory): DEC: LINC-8 (3) PDP-12, one w/ RK05 PDP-8/i PDP-8/e PDP-8/a PDP-11/23 PDP-11/34 PDP-11/44 DECsystem 2065 (KL10E) w/ RP06, TU45 DECsystem 2020 (KS10) VAX 11/750 w/ RA81, TU81 VAX/Intergraph 8550 VAX 6220 (Lots) small VAXstations and DECstations DG: Nova 840 Nova 3 S/130 Interdata: Model 4 IBM: S/34 - 5340 S/36 - 5360, 5362, 5363 RS/6000 - T3B, 360, 540 Fastdraft TI: 990 Wang: VS100 Symbolics: 3600, 3640, (two others coming next week from TMC) Packard Bell: 250 Basic Four: mumblefoo Honeywell: 316 There are probably others that I have forgotten. This list also does not include the seemingly zillions of Suns/Intergraphs/whatevers that come thru. My collection consists of (some coming this month): IBM: S/3 model 15D - 5415 w/ 3340, 3241, 1403N1 S/1 (various) RS/6000-T3B (NSFnet backbone node), 320H misc - 029, 129, 519, 557, 1131, 2311, 2501, 2520 DEC: PDP-8/i PDP-8/s PDP-8/e (probably selling to friend shortly) PDP-11/23 (new, never used) PDT-11/150 (probably available) DG: S/130 Nova 3 (both probably available) Convex: C240 Interdata/Perkin Elmer: Model 14 Model 7/32 SGI: 4D/380 HP: 2100A w/ 7900, paper tape Misc: various small Unix machines As you can see, by weight IBM wins, and will continue to grow as the others shrink. I will probably hold on to a few of the machines - the PDP-8/s because it was literally my first computer ($5, during my high school days) and the SGI Power box, for emotional reasons. Maybe the Interdata 14 as well (old school computer - I didn't use it, but friends did). Note that the PDP-8/i is NOT the one I am taking bids on. I orginally had three (another deal from the ancient days of this list - remember Wirehead?). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Wed Apr 11 23:05:08 2001 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> Message-ID: My modest collection : Centris 660av (Mac OS) Compaq III (DOS) Commodor 64c (and printer and 2 floppy drives) Sharp PC-1405 486DX4 (LRP) Atari CX2600A (2 of these) Odessey2 Telstar Marksman PS/2 Model 80 (Win 3.11) Mac LC475 (Mac OS 8) T1-99/4A HP Envizex (still looking for enware ) VT220 Wyse 85 (love this terminal) GRiD PalmPAD SL 2360 (DOS) Until I get a house (or a more permanent base of operation) I'm trying to keep my collection small (and failing, however. I can't really turn down offers of free computers, can I?). My main criteria is working and either has TCP/IP or was a machine I once programmed on. I'm not sure what the exact name of the Compaq III is. It's a 386, iirc, w/ 640kb, one 5.25 floppy and an internal hard drive. Makes a nice (if noisy) terminal that can be easily moved around, or folded up and out of the way. http://pied.nu/fotos-8/compaq-III-1.jpg -Philip From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 11 23:16:50 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <3AD51103.666192B4@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010412041650.58870.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jerome Fine wrote: > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have watched to this thread and I have a question. I have heard that the > Heath hardware might be able to run a modified RT-11 form the PDP-11. > Is this true and is so, what modifications were needed? I thought the Heath hardware ran standard RT-11. Am I mistaken? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From rws at enteract.com Wed Apr 11 23:38:50 2001 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010411204214.01e8c1a0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, John Foust wrote: (re: Chicago collectors) > I'm halfway between Madison and Milwaukee, and there are > several others on this list in those cities. I'm just outside of Chicago's northwest suburbs. My collection (from memory): IBM: several IBM PC's several IBM PC XT's 1 IBM PC AT 2 IBM PCjr's a stack of IBM PS/2 model 57's (I think there are 11 of them) IBM System/36 (5360) IBM System/34 several IBM Thinkpad laptops IBM PS/Valuepoint 433DX/D DEC: VAX 11/780 (still looking for a boot disk *hint hint*) VAX 11/750 VAX 6000-530 PDP 11/44 lots of peripherals, including a TS11, TU80, 4 RA81's, 4 RL02's, RP06... PC clones: Compaq Plus several AT&T 6300's several 386-based Zenith laptops Toshiba T3100SX Epson Equity LT Tandy: 1000HX (only computer I ever bought new) 2 TRS-80's TRS-80 model II 2 TRS-80 model III's TRS-80 model 4 TRS-80 model 16 (or maybe it's a 6000, I forget) TRS-80 model 2000 CoCo CoCo 2 CoCo 3 and another for parts Small micros: TI 99/4 several TI-99/4A's several Timex Sinclair 1000's Timex Sinclair 2068 Sinclair ZX80 with someone's ugly hacked-up keyboard on it 2 Radofin Aquarius 5931R's Atari 130XE Atari 800XL (is that right?) Apple ][+ Apple //e Apple IIgs Mac Plus Mac IIsi Mac LC II PET 2001 PET 4016 several Commodore 64's VIC-20 C-128 2 Intel iPDS-100 Personal Development Systems Kaypro II Kaypro 4 Plus 88 Osborne 1 NCR Decision Mate V Monroe 7860 Other stuff: Point Four Mark 3 with CDC Lark drive (I think this is a DG Nova clone) Netronics COSMAC Elf II Intel SDK-51 Intel SDK-2920 CPT 8525 HP 9825 HP-85B HP model 46 calculator Multibus chassis (I forget who made the crate) with: (not all at same time) 8 Intel SBC's: 8080, 8088, 8086, 80188 4 Teradyne SBC's: 80186, 80286 hard disk controllers, floppy, you name it octal modem card Intel System 310/88 Multibus chassis Compupro S-100 chassis with 68000 processor card & other stuff 3 TMS 32010 EVM boards Motorola 68HC11 eval board Magnavox Odyssey2 Mattel Intellivision Mattel Intellivision 2 TI-58 calculator TI Datamath 1500 calculator Casio 101 calculator AT&T Unix PC 7300 NCR 32/500 Tower I know there's a lot more but a lot of it is in garages away from home. Richard Schauer rws@enteract.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 00:10:51 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website In-Reply-To: <00d601c0c2aa$d1a2a520$e247cfa9@druskersi> Message-ID: <20010412051051.62855.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave Ruske wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Is there any chance of a revision to emulate the appearance of the TIL311 > > displays when in "Elf" mode? > > Easily done; look for it in the next release. Thanks. > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I created a new section in the VCF Link Library for RCA: > > Thanks, Sellam, I appreciate it! With the renewed interest, I'll get back to editing the Elf II article at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/ElfII (it was a work in progress that stalled; the freebie OCR software that came with my sheet-feed B&W scanner isn't the best). BTW, I checked - I _do_ have a VIP 3301. What would you like to know about it? There's wads of CMOS parts, some TTL, 5 x 2114 SRAM, ECO wires... The RCA chips are: 1802 (CPU - facing backwards!) 1823 (128x8 450ns SRAM also backwards) 3 x 1852 (8-bit I/O port) 1854 (UART - backwards, too!) 1856 (bus buffer) 1867 (4-bit latch and memory decoder) 1869 (Video Interface System - "VIS" - computer interface) 1870 (Video Interface System - "VIS" - video sync, color subcarrier, etc.) 2 x 4059 (divide-by-N counter) There's also a MOS chip in there, probably the ROM - p/n 302-7185-001 -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From blstuart at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 11 23:09:57 2001 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: WGBH Video In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:21:37 -0500 . Message-ID: In message , "Russ Blakeman" writes: >Have you tried contacting WGBH in Boston? They may still offer it in certain >formats. > >http://www.wgbh.org/ > >> Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video >> series "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by >> WGBH for Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since >> misplaced it. It hasn't been available for purchase for a while >> as I understand. I'd be surprised if WGBH or the ACM (who partly sponsored it) has it available. A little while back, someone from the ACM put out a plea for anyone who had a copy to send it to them for copying. When I offered, the response I got was that they had someone that looked like he could provide it but if that fell through they'd be in touch. They never got in touch, so I assume the other source worked out. Given that, I doubt that anyone would be too bent out of shape for people to make copies for each other. Brian From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Wed Apr 11 19:07:27 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: ; from gwynp@artware.qc.ca on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 12:05:08AM -0400 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20010412030726.B1094@sd160.local> On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 12:05:08AM -0400, gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > My modest collection : > HP Envizex (still looking for enware ) Try http://www.ductape.net/~brianm/xterm I had to pierce together a kit for HP 700X (NOT RX!) from a plain binary x-server + some parts from HP-UX (keymap-files, fonts) and some from NetBSD. After doing that I found the page above... -- jht From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 00:59:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <001701c0c315$b8cdd2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, that's certainly true. The EIA standard wouldn't spell out all those signal name assignments if it didn't need them in the most general case. However, in most cases, notably the popular DEC interfaces, it became common to see just the three-wire hookup, probably because the DEC systems were tied to so many terminals, often being front-enders, etc. That made for skinny cables that didn't weigh as much nor did they take up as much space. The first time I used a serial printer of my own, I found that the only way to get around the all-too-common incompatibilities between printer handshake and system handshake was to ignore the handshakes (i.e. turn them off) and make no connections other than TxD, RxD, and Common. more below ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:45 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > lives on a DA-15 connector. Back in those days, RS232C spelled out the signal > > levels and the signal names, and their functions, though quite inadequately, and > > it wasn't the EIA that authorized the use of the DE9 for RS232-compatible > > communcation, though I don't know why, in view of the fact that only DB25-pins > > 2,3, and 7 were required to get the job done. Even today, lots of people talk > > Well, firstly, 2,3,7 are not always all you need. Synchronous interfaces > almost certainly need the clock signals (on 15, 17 and maybe 24?). You > might also need the modem control [1] lines, etc. There are many more > than 9 signals, so you can't always use a 9 pin connector. > > And one reason for having a standard in the first place is so that (at > least in principle) any 2 devices meeting the standard can work together. > If some devices have a 9 pin connector and others have a 25 pin > connector, then you can't plug them together. > > Yes, I know 'RS232 compatible' normally means a morning with schematics > and an afternoon with the breakout box working out how to link the darn > thing up. But that's because we're _all_ misusing the interface. It was > designed to link a teletype to a modem, and for that use, it seems to > work first time. > Sad but true ... The standard links the pins to the signal names, and sketchy definitions of the signal functions, but doesn't even go so far as to define the active state of the handshakes, thereby leaving much room for confusion. > > [1] I have deliberately avoided calling them hardware handshake lines. > IIRC the standard is pretty clear about what you can do with them, and > hardware handshaking is not included. This makes sense in the original > application -- the RS232 link was between a terminal and a modem -- a > dumb modem with no internal data buffering or anything like that. The > device you wanted to tell to stop sending characters was the computer > connected to the modem at the other end of the line. The only way you > could do that was by sending signals -- characters -- over the telephone > line. You couldn't simply send a signal to the local modem, which is > what, of course, the control lines did. No, those lines were for things > like ensuring the modem was working, doing a half duplex turnaround, etc. > That's probably wise, and, in fact, wiser than most authors about this subject. > > Now, of course, we have a pretty good idea of how we expect those lines > to hehave -- as hardware handshake lines -- even though that is against > the standard. In fact when you find a device that uses them 'properly', > you might have a long day ahead of you making it work with just about any > other device out there. > Whenever I need a taste of humility, I get out my manuals for the HP 7585 plotter's serial interface and try to figure out how it's really supposed to work. Though I've gotten it to work, I've never understood why it works the way it appears to while the doc's say what they say. > > -tony > > From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 12 01:02:08 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <005101c0c2e5$d71ee780$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I had a Radio Shack Quick Printer II, which, IIRC, was a narrow, roll-fed > electrostatic erosion printer that used aluminum-foil coated roll paper about 5" > wide. I used it to label my parts cabinets. Being a repackaged Centronics > printer, it had the usual 36-pin Centronics connector. Just to muddy the waters a tad, do not forget that Xerox used a 50-pin Ribbon connector on some version of the Diablo 630 (IIRC) in what they called their (A)ll (P)urpose (I)nterface - API - which included parallel, serial, and I forget what all else. - don > Centronics was using that 36-pin connector before Radio Shack ever contemplated > getting into the compuer business. It was on the Printronix P100 we had on our > Wang 2200 MVP back in '75. The very first time I ever saw a real parallel > printer cable that didn't use the Centronics standard 36-position connector at > both ends was on a PC, in 1981. Prior to that, the "toy" interface used by the > Apple II was the only non-homemade one I saw in use on a commercial system. > That was understandable in view of the package size constraints, however. > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:51 PM > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > The 50-position type was around for a long time, i.e. I remember them back > in > > > the early '70's and they weren't new then, in use with telecom gear. I've > no > > > idea whether the 36-position variety was made_for_Centronics, but it's the > only > > > connector that I've ever seen used on a genuine Centronics parallel > interface, > > > > At the printer end, probably (although there were a _few_ pre-PC printers > > that used a card edge or a header plug for a Centronics-like interface -- > > the Radio Shack Quick Printer 2 was one such IIRC). > > > > At the computer end, there were many connectors used. Some companies used > > the 36 pin Blue Ribbon (I believe that _is_ the correct name). Others > > used a header plug or a card edge, normally pinned out so that an IDC > > ribbon cable with no twists could be used to link it to the 36 pin > > connector at the printer end. Things like the 34 pin card edge on the old > > TRS-80s, for example. > > > > > be it on a Centronics, Printronix, Okidata, (not the toys found attached to > a > > > PC, but the real "line-printers" ) or whatever sort of printer. The > interface > > > used on the PC parallel port does not precisely conform to the Centronics > > > > The PC printer port was designed to link to the 5152 printer which was a > > badge Epson IIRC. That's why the interface is not _exactly_ Centronics. > > > > > standard, and was the first one I saw using a different connector. The > point is > > > that while the connector isn't exclusive to that interface, the interface is > > > exclusively dedicated to that connector, to wit, it's still what's used on > > > printers, even though everybody knows it's only going to be attached via a > DB25 > > > at the computer end. > > > > Round here it might be _anything_ at the computer end :-) > > > > > there > > > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. Prior to > SCSI > > > fame, > > > > > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > > > > DD50 connector. > > > > > > > That's the one widely used by SUN. It's a better connector, but since they > > > > And others. The Ill-fated PERQ AGW3300 (aka PERQ3a) has a DD50 SCSI > > connector on it. > > > > > didn't make a crimp-onto-ribbon-cable version until very late in the game, > it > > > > For SCSI, I've neve seen anything bu the crimp-on IDC type. The pinout of > > SCSI-1 using that connector was chosen so you could crimp a DD50 onto a > > normal SCSI ribbon cable and get the right connections. > > > > Of course this doens't mean the connector didn't come out relatively late > > -- I have no idea when the IDC version of the DD50 was first produced. > > > > -tony > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 01:04:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <001d01c0c316$686acb20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, but the Centronics ones didn't. I once owned a QUME or DIABLO daisywheel printer that used a card-edge connector as one of its options. I also owned a DIABLO that used the 50-pin Blue-Ribbon style connector as appears on most 5-button telephone cables. That one had both the serial and the parallel interface on the one connector. None of these were labelled CENTRONICS, however. I'm not blaming anyone for being as confused about what the right nomenclature for that 50-pin connector type is as I am, but I am still convinced it's NOT Centronics. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: RE: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > Many of the older Tandy/Radio Shack printers used the header and card edge > connectors, or serial, as well. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:17 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > I had a Radio Shack Quick Printer II, which, IIRC, was a narrow, roll-fed > > electrostatic erosion printer that used aluminum-foil coated roll > > paper about 5" > > wide. I used it to label my parts cabinets. Being a repackaged > > Centronics > > printer, it had the usual 36-pin Centronics connector. > > > > Centronics was using that 36-pin connector before Radio Shack > > ever contemplated > > getting into the compuer business. It was on the Printronix P100 > > we had on our > > Wang 2200 MVP back in '75. The very first time I ever saw a real parallel > > printer cable that didn't use the Centronics standard 36-position > > connector at > > both ends was on a PC, in 1981. Prior to that, the "toy" > > interface used by the > > Apple II was the only non-homemade one I saw in use on a > > commercial system. > > That was understandable in view of the package size constraints, however. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Duell" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:51 PM > > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > > > > > The 50-position type was around for a long time, i.e. I > > remember them back > > in > > > > the early '70's and they weren't new then, in use with > > telecom gear. I've > > no > > > > idea whether the 36-position variety was made_for_Centronics, > > but it's the > > only > > > > connector that I've ever seen used on a genuine Centronics parallel > > interface, > > > > > > At the printer end, probably (although there were a _few_ > > pre-PC printers > > > that used a card edge or a header plug for a Centronics-like > > interface -- > > > the Radio Shack Quick Printer 2 was one such IIRC). > > > > > > At the computer end, there were many connectors used. Some > > companies used > > > the 36 pin Blue Ribbon (I believe that _is_ the correct name). Others > > > used a header plug or a card edge, normally pinned out so that an IDC > > > ribbon cable with no twists could be used to link it to the 36 pin > > > connector at the printer end. Things like the 34 pin card edge > > on the old > > > TRS-80s, for example. > > > > > > > be it on a Centronics, Printronix, Okidata, (not the toys > > found attached to > > a > > > > PC, but the real "line-printers" ) or whatever sort of printer. The > > interface > > > > used on the PC parallel port does not precisely conform to > > the Centronics > > > > > > The PC printer port was designed to link to the 5152 printer which was a > > > badge Epson IIRC. That's why the interface is not _exactly_ Centronics. > > > > > > > standard, and was the first one I saw using a different > > connector. The > > point is > > > > that while the connector isn't exclusive to that interface, > > the interface is > > > > exclusively dedicated to that connector, to wit, it's still > > what's used on > > > > printers, even though everybody knows it's only going to be > > attached via a > > DB25 > > > > at the computer end. > > > > > > Round here it might be _anything_ at the computer end :-) > > > > > > > there > > > > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old > > SCSI-1 uses a > > > > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics > > type. Prior to > > SCSI > > > > fame, > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), > > SCSI-1 used a > > > > > DD50 connector. > > > > > > > > > That's the one widely used by SUN. It's a better connector, > > but since they > > > > > > And others. The Ill-fated PERQ AGW3300 (aka PERQ3a) has a DD50 SCSI > > > connector on it. > > > > > > > didn't make a crimp-onto-ribbon-cable version until very late > > in the game, > > it > > > > > > For SCSI, I've neve seen anything bu the crimp-on IDC type. The > > pinout of > > > SCSI-1 using that connector was chosen so you could crimp a DD50 onto a > > > normal SCSI ribbon cable and get the right connections. > > > > > > Of course this doens't mean the connector didn't come out > > relatively late > > > -- I have no idea when the IDC version of the DD50 was first produced. > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 01:12:50 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <008901c0c257$79ea10a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <002401c0c2b2$915974a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD51378.BA1B906B@mindless.com> Message-ID: <003b01c0c317$9a3061a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> As far as looking for key switches, for functionality, I rather liked Sellam's suggestion implying that an old PC Keyboard (not a rarity) might provide sufficient switches. Moreover, with a good software package and a hi-res printer, you could make key legends that you can rubber-cement to the keycaps and paint over with clear laquer. If you don't mind that they're less durable, you can even use the (clear vinyl, not "magic") scotch tape to keep from rubbing off the legends. The caps come off the keytops, and if you are careful you can do this so it looks good and works very well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Look "good" ... ??? ... Depends on your preferences, I guess. > > > > A big part of the question of HOW to go about fixing this is to answer the > > question of whether your goal is to restore the KIM-1 to its original condition > > for historical authenticity or whether you'd just as soon have something that > > works well instead. > > Operational is the main thing, but I'd be thrilled to restore it if the opportunity > came up. > > My main interest in the KIM and other really simple machines is as a > hands-on demo of what being a computerist was like in the early days > of microcomputers, before the keyboard, box, and monitor > paradigm took hold. Extra points for toggle switches too. :) > > I've seen interest in the thing from visitors who are > into computers, and so far all were less "what a quaint but completely > prehistoric piece of junk" than "wow, I can't believe a machine with > 1/1000th the CPU speed and 1/64,000th the memory can play > Hunt the Wumpus and other games and they're even a little fun." :) > It's a tribute to doing an amazing amount with what by modern standards > seems preposterously little, and I think preserving this realization is part > of what being "into" classic computers can be about. > > > > > If the former is your goal, then you've a lot of hunting to > > do, but may eventually find out how to modify some other product to fit the > > application. On the other hand, there are lots of available keypads, or, if you > > prefer, lots of available individual keyswitches with removable/clear-capped > > tops, that you can build a really decent and servicable keypad that you can > > attach to the auxilliary connector in order to substitute it for the original > > without having first to remove the existing keypad. It seems to me that they > > should work quite well in parallel. > > Okay. I try the regular electronics outlets. I'll try specifically keyboard > manufacturers (ALPs, Cherry, etc. I guess) and see what I can dig up. > > > > > > > I don't know that Commodore actually fabricated the keypads themselves, and, in > > fact, rather doubt it, so it's likely someone, somewhere, will have used a > > similar keypad, or, at least, similar switches, so that will provide you with > > amusement at swapmeets and junk sales. Moreover, if you haven't yet looked at > > third-party switch catalogs, I'd certainly recommend that so you can explore > > replacing the keypad with a possibly more durable and/or convenient, yet > > cosmetically similar keypad. > > > > This will require some serious head-scratching. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ross Archer" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:17 AM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Ethan Dicks > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a > > > particular > > > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the keypad. > > > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > > > > > > > > > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step) and > > > RS (reset). > > > > > > I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and they're > > > working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons > > > involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting > > > with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick, > > > but what would look good. > > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 12 01:12:40 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010410202434.00b6a100@pacbell.net> References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbo x> Message-ID: <3AD50F18.6941.51DF78@localhost> Was this a typo or do you really have 6 Apple 1's. larry > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > >would accept (too large). > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > quantity after all: > > - i432 development system > - the original 4004 mask set > - IBM 5100 prototype > - Apple I (qty 6) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 > > My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this stuff in the > garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for some calculators or > something smaller. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 12 01:12:40 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3AD50F18.1407.51DFA0@localhost> This came up on the list a couple of springs ago. It should be in the archives. My collection has about doubled since then but I haven't done an inventory update for some time. IIRC about 30 or so collection lists were posted. Quite interesting to see the collecting bias' of the different list members. The definitive list would have to be John Keyes or Sellams collections. larry > In a message dated 01-04-10 21:49:17 EDT, you write: > > << Quoting THETechnoid@home.com: > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > > list server would accept (too large). >> > > blech, I'm traveling and can't think of what I all have. check my list at: > > www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/ccidxa2z.htm > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 12 01:12:40 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104110516.WAA11548@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at "Apr 10, 1 10:24:23 pm" Message-ID: <3AD50F18.28210.51DFF5@localhost> The key limiting factor would have to be the wife. Not too many computer- compatable ones around. :^)) larry > > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > > > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > > > list server would accept (too large). > > I'm merely small potatoes: > > 2 VIC-20s > 2 flat C128s > 2 128DCRs > 2 Tomy Tutors > 2 Apple IIgs > 2 Atari XEGS > 2 C64s > 2 HP95LXes > 2 Mac IIci > 2 Mac IIsi > Mac SE/30 > Mac Plus > NEC 8201A > Tandy 200 > SX-64 > TI Compact Computer 40 > HP-15C calculator (close enough ;-) > Tandy PC-4 > Power Mac 7300 (doesn't really count) > Toshiba Satellite T1950 486DX/40 (doesn't really count either) > Solbourne S4000DX > a NeXT, just as soon as Curt tells me where to send the green :-) > KIM-1 > Timex Sinclair 1000 > Plus/4 > Apple Network Server 500 (co-loed at PLNU but will move north soon, doesn't > really count either ;-) Data General One laptop > > plus all the disk drives, monitors and stuff. > > Game systems? Just a VCS and a Sylvania Intellivision. Maybe a Dreamcast > so I can run NetBSD on it! Yeah! > > The thing that's most intriguing is that I can fit everything in 610 sq ft., > plus me living in that apartment too :-) But then, no roommates, no wife, ... > :-) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Enfield Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide -- > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 12 01:12:40 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Early Grid connector cable Message-ID: <3AD50F18.8744.51DF2D@localhost> I have a large 5 1/4 Grid fdd, mod# 2022 with 2 50 pin (17-16-17) connectors on the back. It is dated 1982. I also have the cable. Anyone know what model this beast hooked up to and what this connector is called. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 01:18:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <3AD24B3F.31986AD1@mindless.com> <3.0.1.32.20010409211224.01c8cea8@mail.30below.com> <008101c0c1d7$fea799a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <00a601c0c259$6ee8c3c0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <003201c0c2b4$7b0c9d60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD514CA.5623AA9A@mindless.com> Message-ID: <004101c0c318$6ea96300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Though I never owned a KIM-1, I once built a memory circuit for the KIM-1 that lived on a prototype card I once had made and sold for the thing, which, when combined with an FDC allowed one to run the "APEX" os, but only after disabling the KIM-1-resident I/O and Firmware. It also required a small character display (16 lines of 64 characters), and a parallel-interfaced ascii keyboard. I may still have enough information about that to be of some use. My efforts to locate various KIM-stuff have been in vain though. I've been looking for a KIM-2 and a KIM-3 board, which I hope I didn't pitch, for some years now. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > I'd recommend that you not only replace the keypad with something more durable, > > but that you buffer and parallel the LED display such that you can use some > > significantly larger displays. That will provide you with flexibility in > > packaging that the use of the existing display won't allow. It's lotsa work, > > but that's what the hobby is about, isn't it? > > I gave that some thought. Suppose having BIG displays would be nice. > I don't intend to input much data via the keypad -- I plan to take the best > parts of my 65C02 microcontroller and add it to the KIM so you can use > the PC as a rather fast tape drive. :) Still, it's cool to show people who > are into computers how people hand-assembled their programs and > typed them in, etc. :) > > AC in, a filtered DC supply, cassette I/O jacks, an RS232 port, and 32K RAM > and secondary monitor ROM would all fit nicely within a box and > protect the whole thing, so I like that idea very much. > > > > > > > > > The way to handle this might be to buy a scrap of aluminum sheet stock that's > > about large enough to build a box that will hold the KIM-1, perhaps together > > with a PSU, and, if you've any desire to do that, together with whatever > > expansion hardware you want. Make sure it's sturdy enough for your purposes. > > Obtain a hacksaw, shear, files, etc, and whatever else you think you'll need to > > butcher the metal. Radio Shack once sold a really decent nibbler, that's the > > easiest tool to afford for making oddly-shaped square-cornered holes for > > keypads, displays, connectors, etc. It was a good tool so it's likely no longer > > available. I bought two just to be safe. > > > > Purchase or fabricate a keypad, ABSOLUTELY NOT a membrane or otherwise prebuilt > > matrix keypad, but rather, one with keyboard-type switches and removable keytops > > to which you can see yourself applying some sort of decent-looking legends. > > That way you have a maintenance path. It's not hard to hand-wire a set of > > switches onto a piece of perf-board in a solid way that can be attached to the > > underside of your aluminum top. I've done this sort of thing many times and if > > you want "spiritual guidance" with respect to this, I doubt I'm the only one in > > this forum who's got advice for you. > > > > It sounds like I could manage this assuming there's a ready supply of individual > keys somewhere out there -- and I figure this must be the case. > > Thanks a lot for all the ideas. > > -- Ross > > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ross Archer" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:31 AM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Richard Erlacher > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:04 AM > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > > > > > > > Funny you should ask. I studied the circuit in detail > > > about two years back, and verified that closing the > > > right pair of application connector pins caused the > > > "broken" keys to register. I got busy, put the KIM > > > away in a box and forgot about it until recently. > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Roger Merchberger" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 7:12 PM > > > > Subject: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words: > > > > > >On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [[[ Editor's Note - original poster not identified ]]] > > > > > > > > > > >> > > So this discussion isn't totally off-topic, does anyone have > > > > > >> > > any suggestions on how to fix my dead KIM-1 keyboard? > > > > > > > > > > [ snip ] > > > > > > > > > > >I'll bet that the KIM-1 keypad was the same type that was used in one > > > of > > > > > >Commodore's pocket calculators. But even THOSE are pretty rare. > > > > > > > > > > > >I guess you're SOL. Is it possible to unsolder the keypad and > > > disassemble > > > > > >it to clean the contacts? > > > > > > > > > > I hope he's not [1]... I happen to have a Commie pocket calculator in my > > > > > basement - dunno if it's what you're looking for (it's *duuuuuusty!* and > > > I > > > > > don't think it works well) but I can put digital pix on the 'net in the > > > > > next couple days if that'd help... > > > > > > > > > > Shipping or small trade would be all I ask... > > > > > > > > > > [1] I'm hoping that the original poster isn't SOL, that is... > > > > > > > > > > HTH, > > > > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > > > > > -- > > > > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > > > > > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > > > > > > > > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > > > > > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 01:23:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <005901c0c319$0aa8b080$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The API had RS-232, 20 ma current loop, and parallel, all on the one connector. I actually had a couple of those. I'm ashamed to admit I once owned and used eight daisywheel printers in order to generate letter-quality output. I was too cheap to buy a laser printer, and the "lotsa printers" got the work out. They made "lotsa noise" too. I wonder how long it will be before I stop finding spare logic boards, ribbons, and printwheels. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:02 AM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Just to muddy the waters a tad, do not forget that Xerox used a 50-pin > Ribbon connector on some version of the Diablo 630 (IIRC) in what they > called their (A)ll (P)urpose (I)nterface - API - which included > parallel, serial, and I forget what all else. > > - don > > > > Centronics was using that 36-pin connector before Radio Shack ever contemplated > > getting into the compuer business. It was on the Printronix P100 we had on our > > Wang 2200 MVP back in '75. The very first time I ever saw a real parallel > > printer cable that didn't use the Centronics standard 36-position connector at > > both ends was on a PC, in 1981. Prior to that, the "toy" interface used by the > > Apple II was the only non-homemade one I saw in use on a commercial system. > > That was understandable in view of the package size constraints, however. > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Duell" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 5:51 PM > > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > > > > > > > > > The 50-position type was around for a long time, i.e. I remember them back > > in > > > > the early '70's and they weren't new then, in use with telecom gear. I've > > no > > > > idea whether the 36-position variety was made_for_Centronics, but it's the > > only > > > > connector that I've ever seen used on a genuine Centronics parallel > > interface, > > > > > > At the printer end, probably (although there were a _few_ pre-PC printers > > > that used a card edge or a header plug for a Centronics-like interface -- > > > the Radio Shack Quick Printer 2 was one such IIRC). > > > > > > At the computer end, there were many connectors used. Some companies used > > > the 36 pin Blue Ribbon (I believe that _is_ the correct name). Others > > > used a header plug or a card edge, normally pinned out so that an IDC > > > ribbon cable with no twists could be used to link it to the 36 pin > > > connector at the printer end. Things like the 34 pin card edge on the old > > > TRS-80s, for example. > > > > > > > be it on a Centronics, Printronix, Okidata, (not the toys found attached to > > a > > > > PC, but the real "line-printers" ) or whatever sort of printer. The > > interface > > > > used on the PC parallel port does not precisely conform to the Centronics > > > > > > The PC printer port was designed to link to the 5152 printer which was a > > > badge Epson IIRC. That's why the interface is not _exactly_ Centronics. > > > > > > > standard, and was the first one I saw using a different connector. The > > point is > > > > that while the connector isn't exclusive to that interface, the interface is > > > > exclusively dedicated to that connector, to wit, it's still what's used on > > > > printers, even though everybody knows it's only going to be attached via a > > DB25 > > > > at the computer end. > > > > > > Round here it might be _anything_ at the computer end :-) > > > > > > > there > > > > > > even existed any notion of a standard for SCSI. The old SCSI-1 uses a > > > > > > 50-position connector that looks like the Centronics type. Prior to > > SCSI > > > > fame, > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes. Sometimes (and this is in the standard IIRC), SCSI-1 used a > > > > > DD50 connector. > > > > > > > > > That's the one widely used by SUN. It's a better connector, but since they > > > > > > And others. The Ill-fated PERQ AGW3300 (aka PERQ3a) has a DD50 SCSI > > > connector on it. > > > > > > > didn't make a crimp-onto-ribbon-cable version until very late in the game, > > it > > > > > > For SCSI, I've neve seen anything bu the crimp-on IDC type. The pinout of > > > SCSI-1 using that connector was chosen so you could crimp a DD50 onto a > > > normal SCSI ribbon cable and get the right connections. > > > > > > Of course this doens't mean the connector didn't come out relatively late > > > -- I have no idea when the IDC version of the DD50 was first produced. > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > > > > > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 01:57:24 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: WGBH Video References: Message-ID: <00f401c0c31d$d4830c80$ad9eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > >> Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video > >> series "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by > >> WGBH for Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since > >> misplaced it. It hasn't been available for purchase for a while > >> as I understand. For a detailed summary of the five 1 hour episodes that made up this series, see: http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/TMTCTW.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 02:39:47 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <006301c0c253$c691ec60$1498b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000901c0c323$c04b35c0$ad9eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Forgot a couple: Heath H-89A Apple/Bandai Pippin (not 10 yrs. old, but pretty cool) Speaking OT and of Pippin, does anyone have any software to trade or sell? -W > My modest assemblage; mostly portables and all-in-ones > because I like to put my car in the garage: > > Apple Lisa 2 > Commodore SX-64 > Compaq Portable > Corona ATP > Gridpad 1910 > HP-85A > HP-85B > HP Integral > HP 9826 > HP 9920 > IBM 5100 > IBM 5110 > IBM System 23 > IMSAI VDP-40 > IMSAI VDP-44 > Kaypro II > Kaypro 4 > Kaypro 10 > Mac Portable > Osborne Executive > Osborne OCC-1 > Panasonic Executive Partner > Panasonic Sr. Partner > Sanyo MBC-550 > Sanyo MBC-775 > Tektronics TC-2000 > Televideo TPC-1 > Televideo 803H > TI CC-40 > TI Portable Professional > TRS-80 4P > > . . . and a bunch of peripherals, manuals and software > that go with. > > -W > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 12 03:50:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: > I'm less interested in computer hardware (with one notable exception -- >specifically, an Intermec bar-code label printer, direct thermal species) My brain my be doing a flop, but I am almost certain I saw a box of those at the last TRW hamfest in Torrance, CA. Anybody else that was there, the guy was one of the regular sellers on the very west end of a middle row. OTOH I have no idea what they really look like, these were black units about 4x6x8 inches, but them being bar code printers seems to have stuck in my mind. BTW a really neat spot south of Tucson is the ONLY Titan missile site still intact, and its open for tours. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 12 03:32:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: <004301c0c2e3$cb8aa640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3AD4A3D2.1196.1FD8047@localhost> Message-ID: >There once were lots of decent thrift stores, but, over the course of the past >year or so, there seems to have evolved some sort of corruption. The best >thrift store in Denver is the ARC (Association of Retarded Citizens) chain >store >on South Broadway. What's been happening far and wide is that the folks >in the >stores are stripping the systems of hard drives, memory, and interesting >boards >and marking the remainder at above market prices. The result is that they end >up in the dumpster, after not selling for several weeks, where the help later >snags the, for whatever purpose. Most places like this have vendors sales out the back door. Things get collected up and vendors bid on them, or many times with computers they all go in a bin and some one place has a deal to buy them for weight etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 12 03:53:02 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Found Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens (CNC?) unit in our basement In-Reply-To: References: <3AD50368.5348715D@internet1.net> Message-ID: >There are tons of free sites such as Geocities, NBCI, Tripod, FreeServers, >etc for web pages. Freeservers lets you pick one of their domain One mentioned on another list is www.whalemail.com that allows something like 75 MB of free temporary storage. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 12 04:03:32 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: <20010412030336.ZNCM10569.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> References: <004301c0c2e3$cb8aa640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: >Ed Kirby has a bunch (14?) Mac IIci machines with hdd, decent amount of >ram etc for $75.00 a pop. Known to work. You pay shipping. Monitors >available (about $100.00 each). Cables too. I hate to poop on other peoples deals, but that price really sucks. I sell a IIci setup with a nice pair of nics ready to load NetBSD and use as firewall or a regular mac for no more than $30, and the 640x480 monitor with a cable is $25. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Thu Apr 12 06:29:04 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: WGBH Video References: Message-ID: <3AD59180.1C28BF01@heathers.stdio.com> I've made further calls to the local library system and came up empty. Maybe it is available in a library system from a different town/state. WBGH also said to check with a local PBS affiliate to find out if it is going to be rerun at any time.(I came up empty there as well) Brian. Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video series > > "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by WGBH for > > Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since misplaced it. > > It hasn't been available for purchase for a while as I understand. > > Hmmm, I'd be interested in a copy of this as well. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- ?????? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 12 08:08:06 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010412080806.3b1f355e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Bruce, I'm in Florida and not in Arizona but what kind of Intermec stuff are you looking for? I find lots of it at one of the surplus places that I go to. Joe At 07:28 PM 4/11/01 -0700, you wrote: >(Crossposted to CLASSICCMP and the milsurplus list) > > My mate and I will be visiting friends in Tucson around the end of May. >While there, I aim to do some scrounging! > > I'm less interested in computer hardware (with one notable exception -- >specifically, an Intermec bar-code label printer, direct thermal species) >than I am in test equipment and radio hardware, both mil-surplus and >commercial. In fact, I have need of a good source for used aircraft-type >circuit breakers (the pop-button type, both DC and AC) at this time. > > Suggestions for scrounge stops in the Tucson/Phoenix area would be >appreciated. Please keep in mind that I'll only have one day to do this. > > Thanks much. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) >"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be >superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). > From dave at ruske.net Thu Apr 12 07:09:00 2001 From: dave at ruske.net (Dave Ruske) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website References: <20010412051051.62855.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c0c349$5ce19350$445acfa9@druskersi> > > > Is there any chance of a revision to emulate the appearance of the TIL311 > > > displays when in "Elf" mode? I modified the "classic" ELF skin to use a TIL311 style display last night. I found a TIL311 data sheet so I'm pretty sure I've drawn the output accurately, though it lacks the "slant" of the original device. One thing the data sheet couldn't tell me is whether I colored the body of the device correctly. Not having a real one for reference, I used the color from Bill Richman's emulator as a reference and wound up choosing the darkest red in the Palm's 8-bit palette. Is this pretty close to correct? > With the renewed interest, I'll get back to editing the Elf II article Great! Let me know when the edits have been made and I'll change the description on the link! Do you know if that article was the basis for the machines sold by Netronics and Quest Electronics? > BTW, I checked - I _do_ have a VIP 3301. What would you like to know about > it? I'm curious about what's in the ROM... if I were a user and plugged the VIP-3301 in, what would I see on the screen (I presume it was meant to be connected to a TV)? Tiny BASIC, perhaps, or maybe an OS prompt that would allow programs to be loaded from cassette? Or did this thing have a cartridge slot somewhere ala RCA's Studio II video game? What was the serial port meant for? A printer, perhaps? Basically, if I were to read a sales flyer for the VIP-3301, what features would RCA highlight? Thanks for the assistance! Dave Ruske dave@ruske.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:10 AM Subject: Re: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website > > --- Dave Ruske wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Is there any chance of a revision to emulate the appearance of the TIL311 > > > displays when in "Elf" mode? > > > > Easily done; look for it in the next release. > > Thanks. > > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > I created a new section in the VCF Link Library for RCA: > > > > Thanks, Sellam, I appreciate it! > > With the renewed interest, I'll get back to editing the Elf II article > at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/ElfII (it was a work in progress > that stalled; the freebie OCR software that came with my sheet-feed B&W > scanner isn't the best). > > BTW, I checked - I _do_ have a VIP 3301. What would you like to know about > it? There's wads of CMOS parts, some TTL, 5 x 2114 SRAM, ECO wires... > > The RCA chips are: > 1802 (CPU - facing backwards!) > 1823 (128x8 450ns SRAM also backwards) > 3 x 1852 (8-bit I/O port) > 1854 (UART - backwards, too!) > 1856 (bus buffer) > 1867 (4-bit latch and memory decoder) > 1869 (Video Interface System - "VIS" - computer interface) > 1870 (Video Interface System - "VIS" - video sync, color subcarrier, etc.) > 2 x 4059 (divide-by-N counter) > > There's also a MOS chip in there, probably the ROM - p/n 302-7185-001 > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 12 07:13:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > The 50 pin with the hooks on the side is actually referred to as a > Centronics 50 pin, or SCSI-I (external SCSI as well on older machines before > SCSI-2 came along) I've got a fast SCSI-2 card with a Centronics 50 "SCSI-1" connector. Feels really sturdy and heavy-duty. From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 12 07:15:15 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. Oh, but then you lose a lot of fun. The Amiga DB25 serial port features among others audio output on some pins. =) > And Apple used the 8 pin mini-DIN on the Mac+ and later because there > wasn't room for the DE9 connector used on the earler Macs. Hardware > hackers have been complaining ever since -- those mini-DINs are about the > worst connectors in the world to wire! Try a DIN-13 for size. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 07:18:59 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: WGBH Video In-Reply-To: <3AD59180.1C28BF01@heathers.stdio.com> Message-ID: I've even done some searching within the online auctions, present and past auctions, and nothing. Some libraries are under sharing programs and can search for periodicals, videos, books, etc that are available throughout the entire sharing system. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Roth > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:29 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: WGBH Video > > > I've made further calls to the local library system and came up > empty. Maybe it is > available in a library system from a different town/state. WBGH > also said to check > with a local PBS affiliate to find out if it is going to be rerun > at any time.(I > came up empty there as well) > > Brian. > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have a copy or know where to purchase the video series > > > "The machine that changed the world" that was produced by WGBH for > > > Nova? I remember recording it years ago but have since misplaced it. > > > It hasn't been available for purchase for a while as I understand. > > > > Hmmm, I'd be interested in a copy of this as well. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > -- > ?????? > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 07:28:58 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <005901c0c319$0aa8b080$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Here's an interesting page from an online 1997 hardware book that might help or hinder this "centronics" discussion... http://www.viking.delmar.edu/courses/CIS312J/EBOOK/wrh19.htm#E69E399 From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Apr 12 07:26:04 2001 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <01Apr12.135018bst.46095@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:13:54 -0400 > From: THETechnoid@home.com > Subject: Collection list (just for phun) > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > list server would accept (too large). Too right - plus I've already listed mine in a Netscape and aIEeeee friendly way, and I'm working on making it Lynx friendly for Tony :) (BTW Tony, I *will* post your MicroProfessor!) It's always fun when you get mentioned in a national Computer paper! Anyway, its at www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk and as of today I've added an Atari Lynx (bought only because it had a DOOM cart :o) and a Sinclair Scientific Calculator with leatherette case, power pack in case and programming cards......I wasn't chuffed at all! Not bad for 5 english pounds. Other machines coming soon are an unboxed Camputers Lynx 96, and hopefully a boxed one if my price is accepted.......they're like buses these things - wait 2 years then 2 come along at once :o) Happy Easter, people. I'm on holiday next week so I'll sub up from home. -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited Gubbins: http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) (home) (The Online Computer Museum, as featured in Computer Weekly) 0/0 From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Apr 12 07:30:33 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: hp 3bnc-3bnc video cables? In-Reply-To: <001101c0c2b6$9ab28100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Does anyone have any hp 3bnc-3bnc video cables that you don't need? thanks. -Bob From mbg at world.std.com Thu Apr 12 07:38:15 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: <200104121238.IAA20402@world.std.com> I believe the HT-11 distributed by Heath was a modified version of RT-11, but standard RT-11 did and does work on the H-11. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Apr 12 07:52:59 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:11 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from "Chandra Bajpai" at Apr 11, 01 09:38:37 pm Message-ID: <200104121252.IAA17534@wordstock.com> In all the collections I am seeing I am surprised no one has listed an ICON. I believe this system was local to Ontario, Canada. The systems were made especially for schools, with a bunch of them in my high school. Either the GUI or the paint package included was called AMBIENCE. The OS was QNX. The case was like the PETs - steel one piece with monitor. But it was a colour monitor and there was also a trackball. Cheers, Bryan From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 07:55:02 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Happy Easter. References: <002b01c0c2ea$ef209680$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3AD5A5A6.3AB615E4@greenbelt.com> Hello Everyone, I just joined the group and I must say that I have seen several nice lists of classical computers that many of you have posted. I have a partial list at: http://www.greenbelt.com/chomko/index.html I have a question that I'm pretty sure has been asked in the past about classiccmp@classiccmp.org; how does one handle all these messages as email without getting buried, and, why is this its own newsgroup? I'm certain that the amount of traffic could warrent 'classiccmp' having its own newsgroup. Please any enlightenment on these questions appreciated, as my little ISP gets easily overwhelmed. And Happy Easter to all, Eric John Allain wrote: > I'm noticing some pretty interesting discuion threads > come up lately but will be holding off reading the list > through until after E*. I expect there'll be about 500 > msgs waiting then. > > till then.... Have a* Happy Easter. > > John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 12 07:53:12 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Arizona trip - now milsurplus@qth.net In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010412075241.01db1a80@pc> At 07:28 PM 4/11/01 -0700, Bruce Lane wrote: >(Crossposted to CLASSICCMP and the milsurplus list) milsurplus@qth.net ? Can you tell us about that list? - John From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Apr 12 08:07:18 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <3AD51103.666192B4@idirect.com> Message-ID: That is probably on the H11 (not the h8)..the h11 was suppossed to be pdp compatable. -Bob On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > >Bob Brown wrote: > > > I have an h8 that I have no s/w, no schematics, no docs or anything else for. > > >Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc > > >for the H8. > > >>"McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > > > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > > > > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > > > > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > > > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have watched to this thread and I have a question. I have heard that the > Heath hardware might be able to run a modified RT-11 form the PDP-11. > Is this true and is so, what modifications were needed? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > > From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Apr 12 08:08:21 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: WGBH Video References: Message-ID: <3AD5A8C5.9E74762E@olf.com> Hi Brian I have a copy of it but the problem is I dont know where I put it :-( Also, I missed a couple of minutes from some of the series (I believe the last one), but other than that, it is a great series. I am currently moving so most of the stuff is boxed up. Once I finish moving, I can make a copy for you. Ram PS: Still waiting for the SUN :-) -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Apr 12 08:20:00 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: <200104121238.IAA20402@world.std.com> Message-ID: I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies.... Either there aren't many people on the list familier with this area, or there aren't any good places in this area (hard to believe due to the population), or the people who know are keeping it to themselves... I've lived here all my life and I still don't know if a good surplus computer store around here...anyone with any ideas? thanks. -Bob From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 12 08:27:38 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: References: <20010412030336.ZNCM10569.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <004301c0c2e3$cb8aa640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010412082658.01daccc0@pc> At 02:03 AM 4/12/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >I hate to poop on other peoples deals, but that price really sucks. I sell >a IIci setup with a nice pair of nics ready to load NetBSD and use as >firewall or a regular mac for no more than $30, and the 640x480 monitor >with a cable is $25. I'd send that... $30 seems to be an average price for a IIci-class system around here. - John From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Apr 12 08:51:11 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <3AD51103.666192B4@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > >Bob Brown wrote: > > > I have an h8 that I have no s/w, no schematics, no docs or anything else for. > > >Your in KC? I'm in Grandview and I have the software, full schematics etc > > >for the H8. > > >>"McFadden, Mike" wrote: > > > > If there is enough interest I might make a trip from Kansas City to St. > > > > Louis to visit some friends and pick up the load. I bet I could take my > > > > wife's Ford Aerostar extended cab. > > > > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I have watched to this thread and I have a question. I have heard that the > Heath hardware might be able to run a modified RT-11 form the PDP-11. > Is this true and is so, what modifications were needed? > Your thinking of the Heath H11 which was in fact an LSI-11/02. But it had none DEC hardware peripherals like the console SLU and disk controller. I believe it came with something billed as HT-11 which was RT-11 with the necessary heath drivers. I wouldn't mind having a couple of them either. By the way, they were not the only non-DEC LSI-11 system. The Terak also was an 11/02 with custom console and disk hardware. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From dogas at bellsouth.net Thu Apr 12 08:52:27 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website References: <20010412051051.62855.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c0c349$5ce19350$445acfa9@druskersi> Message-ID: <01a701c0c357$d038fa60$92db3fd0@DOMAIN> > > Basically, if I were to read a sales flyer for the VIP-3301, what features > would RCA highlight? I remember seeing one ad for the VP 3301 in one issue of Kilobaud. I'll try to find it again. Basically... It was advertised as a TV ASCII Terminal that could be upgraded to a computer. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Apr 12 08:56:17 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Apr 12, 1 02:03:32 am" Message-ID: <200104121356.GAA12704@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Ed Kirby has a bunch (14?) Mac IIci machines with hdd, decent amount of > >ram etc for $75.00 a pop. Known to work. You pay shipping. Monitors > >available (about $100.00 each). Cables too. > > I hate to poop on other peoples deals, but that price really sucks. I sell > a IIci setup with a nice pair of nics ready to load NetBSD and use as > firewall or a regular mac for no more than $30, and the 640x480 monitor > with a cable is $25. I have to agree with Mike, and not merely because I'm a satisfied customer of his :-) you can do a lot better on a IIci, even with a goodly loaded-out amount of RAM. I bought a bare case for $1 and a IIsi for free, scavenged the IIsi's 8MB of RAM and pulled another 4MB out of another dead system, took the IIsi's case and FD, put them in the IIci, and voila. You don't get deals better than this :-) but I've seen IIcis at Santee go for around $8 or so with maybe 8MB RAM, 40 or 80MB HD, FD, etc., and upgrading them is dirt cheap. Many still had the 32K cache cards installed. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Apr 12 08:47:44 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Message for Bruce Lane Message-ID: Well, Bruce, I've tried to reply privately to your Tucson message from my private and office accounts... both bounce with 'host unknown' errmsgs. I can understand wishing to guard against Colds and Flu, but wearing a spacesuit 24/7 to accomplish that is a little... dare I use the word... obsessive? ;} A shame too, I have contacts in Tucson... O well... "I wanted to join Paranoiacs Anonymous, but when I called for info the guy on the other end asked to know how I got their number, started screaming about just exactly how I knew they were there, and slammed the phone down on me. Next day, when I called back, the number was disconnected." Chz John From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 09:03:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website In-Reply-To: <000601c0c349$5ce19350$445acfa9@druskersi> Message-ID: <20010412140330.64171.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave Ruske wrote: > > > > Is there any chance of a revision to emulate the appearance of the > > > > TIL311 displays when in "Elf" mode? > > I modified the "classic" ELF skin to use a TIL311 style display last night. > I found a TIL311 data sheet so I'm pretty sure I've drawn the output > accurately, though it lacks the "slant" of the original device. The dots are what I was after. > One thing the data sheet couldn't tell me is whether I colored the body of > the device correctly. Not having a real one for reference, I used the color > from Bill Richman's emulator as a reference and wound up choosing the darkest > red in the Palm's 8-bit palette. Is this pretty close to correct? I have a few of them and they are not all the same shade of red. One is nearly orange. I suspect lack of QA in the plastics department. > > With the renewed interest, I'll get back to editing the Elf II article > > Great! Let me know when the edits have been made and I'll change the > description on the link! Will do. > Do you know if that article was the basis for the > machines sold by Netronics and Quest Electronics? It appears that the article is about the Netronics Elf II, as it suggests using a double-sided PCB or wirewrapping your own. I always wanted to build it, but I never found a source of the keyboard chip (74C923?) > > BTW, I checked - I _do_ have a VIP 3301. What would you like to know > > about it? > > I'm curious about what's in the ROM... if I were a user and plugged the > VIP-3301 in, what would I see on the screen Don't know yet. I figured out how to power it up last night, looking at the innards (DIN-5 power plug, two grounds, two N.C., one going into the power switch then off to a 7805 regulator) Something I learned while looking up he 1869/1870, is that it may be color, not B&W as I originally assumed. The chipset supports color; I have no idea about the firmware. > (I presume it was meant to be connected to a TV)? TV (RCA jack) and/or presumably some other kind of monitor (DIN-5 with the middle pin connected to the RCA jack via ECO-type wire on the back side of the board). > Tiny BASIC, perhaps, or maybe an OS prompt that would > allow programs to be loaded from cassette? Or did this thing have a > cartridge slot somewhere ala RCA's Studio II video game? What was the serial > port meant for? A printer, perhaps? No slots. There are a series of DIP switches along one edge for baud rate, etc. The serial port is there because this is some kind of ASCII terminal. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 12 09:03:27 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104111621.JAA03770@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > Sharp 6800? forgetting another damn model number Not an X68000, pray tell? From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 12 09:08:23 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Why Worcester was chosen for VCF East 1.0 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, but not directly. You could take Amtrak to Boston, than change to an MBTA local to Worcester. On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > > > What about facilities for those choosing more reasonable means of long > > > and short distance transporation, such as train stations and boarding > > > stables? > > > > Going by horse? > > Alas, no; I'm too far away from there to attempt that. Going by > horseback would have one definite advantage for those who are running > out of free-space: one couldn't bring much equipment back that way - > especially if riding in an English saddle. :-) Out of curiosity, if > one who lives nearby wanted to ride there, are horses (with diapers - > don't laugh, they make these for horses for such purposes!) allowed > inside? Are other pets allowed inside? I never quite understood > human babies and children being allowed in various places while pets > are not allowed - as pets are no less hygenic and they're often better > behaved... reminds me of the time I was forced out of the UMBC library > - over my strong objections, just because I had my dog with me > (someone complained about her). > > Travelling by choo-choo would be the most feasible method of reaching > that distant destination for me; my preference would be to travel by > steam locomotive; however, that's probably an impossibility. Is there > a train station in that town that one can reach from Baltimore? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis Ancient guru who see future once say: > All Rights Reserved "wise man who meditate upon immortal wisdom > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 of Bart Simpson's words: "Don't have a cow, > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd man" will enjoy interesting life." > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Thu Apr 12 09:10:51 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites References: Message-ID: <0E144EB5.1F75FE32.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Along that same vein, does anyone know any GOOD places for discarded computer hardware in the DFW area?? Bob Mason classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > > I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on > good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies.... > > Either there aren't many people on the list familier with this area, or > there aren't any good places in this area (hard to believe due to the > population), or the people who know are keeping it to themselves... > > I've lived here all my life and I still don't know if a good surplus > computer store around here...anyone with any ideas? > > thanks. > > -Bob > > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, '98, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Thu Apr 12 09:11:49 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: WGBH Video Message-ID: Ram, Great ! Let me know when you find it and I'll send you postage and some blank tapes. I should have checked with the list first. BTW the sun workstations are going out today priority. Thanks for your patience. Brian. Hi Brian I have a copy of it but the problem is I dont know where I put it :-( Also, I missed a couple of minutes from some of the series (I believe the last one), but other than that, it is a great series. I am currently moving so most of the stuff is boxed up. Once I finish moving, I can make a copy for you. Ram PS: Still waiting for the SUN :-) - Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Apr 12 09:14:54 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010412071454.009bd450@192.168.42.129> At 01:50 12-04-2001 -0700, Mike wrote: >BTW a really neat spot south of Tucson is the ONLY Titan missile site still >intact, and its open for tours. I appreciate the thought, Mike, but using what little time I will have to scrounge touring something with an ultimately destructive purpose is just not very high on my priority list. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Apr 12 09:19:52 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites References: Message-ID: There's American Science and Surplus which is out on the outskirts of Chicago on Milwaukee(sp?), they also have a few branches scattered around the suburbs. I'm vacationing in Chicago for a few days at the end of the month and would like to know any other places that have anything as well. You'd think there'd be tons of surplus computer places around that area, what with Argonne, FermiLab, Newark Electronics, and Motorola all living near. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brown" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Chicago Area Sites > I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on > good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies.... > > Either there aren't many people on the list familier with this area, or > there aren't any good places in this area (hard to believe due to the > population), or the people who know are keeping it to themselves... > > I've lived here all my life and I still don't know if a good surplus > computer store around here...anyone with any ideas? > > thanks. > > -Bob > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Apr 12 09:21:13 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Arizona trip - now milsurplus@qth.net In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010412075241.01db1a80@pc> References: <3.0.5.32.20010411192806.009e47e0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010412072113.009c2b30@192.168.42.129> At 07:53 12-04-2001 -0500, John Foust wrote: >At 07:28 PM 4/11/01 -0700, Bruce Lane wrote: >>(Crossposted to CLASSICCMP and the milsurplus list) > >milsurplus@qth.net ? Can you tell us about that list? Pretty much dedicated to the restoration and use of mil-surplus electronics, primarily radio and test equipment. Never seen computers mentioned on it except in brief passing, such as someone mentioning what system they keep a given database on. To subscribe, send a blurb to majordomo@qth.net with 'subscribe milsurplus' (sans quotes) in the body. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 09:23:33 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: <381819616.987085413858.JavaMail.root@web622-wrb.mail.com> Ineed it was. It was also about one version behind and contained many heath specific drivers such as the DX/DY driver for the floppy. It did run all version of DEC RT-11 as the floppy had a RX01 compatability mode. The serial cards were DL compatable and the punch was PC04 compatable. Allison ------Original Message------ From: Megan To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 12, 2001 12:38:15 PM GMT Subject: Re: Heath/Zenith stuff I believe the HT-11 distributed by Heath was a modified version of RT-11, but standard RT-11 did and does work on the H-11. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Thu Apr 12 09:25:23 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites Message-ID: Bob, I don't know how far it is from Chicago but I used to go to the DRMO salvage sale at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. Its been a while since I have been to one but there used to be some good stuff that used to go through that sale. Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 09:28:59 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB References: <20010412030336.ZNCM10569.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <004301c0c2e3$cb8aa640$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010412082658.01daccc0@pc> Message-ID: <3AD5BBAB.B7BF1CD@greenbelt.com> John Foust wrote: > At 02:03 AM 4/12/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: > >I hate to poop on other peoples deals, but that price really sucks. I sell > >a IIci setup with a nice pair of nics ready to load NetBSD and use as > >firewall or a regular mac for no more than $30, and the 640x480 monitor > >with a cable is $25. > > I'd send that... $30 seems to be an average price for a IIci-class > system around here. > I agree. It seems that the cost of shipping is about the value of the system. ~ $30. Eric > > - John From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 12 09:30:23 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001 LFessen106@aol.com wrote: There must be something wrong with your linebreaks, love. > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people are > looking for.. Off the top of my head: Acorn ARM based machines Sharp X68000 Atari MegaSTE/MegaSTE/TT/Falcon and peripherals workstations of all kinds From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Apr 12 09:08:34 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <200104121252.IAA17534@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <00a701c0c35a$0fc64960$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Pope" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:52 AM Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) > In all the collections I am seeing I am surprised no one has listed an ICON. > I believe this system was local to Ontario, Canada. The systems were made > especially for schools, with a bunch of them in my high school. Either the > GUI or the paint package included was called AMBIENCE. The OS was QNX. The > case was like the PETs - steel one piece with monitor. But it was a colour > monitor and there was also a trackball. > I remember the Icons well from my school days. I have a semi-serious belief that the Ontario government and/or the Toronto Board of Education has attempted to erase all evidence that the Icon ever existed. For those who didn't grow up in Southern Ontario, the Icon project was an ambitious early attempt to put a computer in every school. Unfortunately, it was sabotaged by the politically motivated insistence on a "made in Canada" solution. A consortium was put together that created proprietary hardware running a Unix variant (years before Linux put Unix in the mainstream). In a world rapidly being swamped by the enthusiasm and high hopes of the "Home Computing" revolution, where Commodore, Apple and Atari were king, the Icon was a costly failure. It limped along for a few years, but once the government lost its initial enthusiasm for computer-assisted learning, the plug was quickly pulled. The last place I remember seeing an Icon was at the Ontario Science Centre, where they were used to run programs like Forest fire fighting simulations. I'd love to get one if I ever run across one. Regards, Mark. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 09:47:06 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010412071454.009bd450@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you speak of. Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do they actually have a Titan in it? I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the years while still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:15 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > At 01:50 12-04-2001 -0700, Mike wrote: > > >BTW a really neat spot south of Tucson is the ONLY Titan missile > site still > >intact, and its open for tours. > > I appreciate the thought, Mike, but using what little time > I will have to > scrounge touring something with an ultimately destructive purpose is just > not very high on my priority list. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 09:39:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <000001c0c360$121337e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> In an earlier discussion of the RS232 connectors used in various systems it was pointed out that DEC used the DE9 before anybody thought of the PC/AT. Considering the common usage of so few of the defined signals on the DB25 and the rarity of the cases wherein more than half-a dozen of the signals are needed, I think it's reasonable for a system that uses lots of serial ports to use a small connector. However, as scantily documented as the signal set in the 9-pin connector has been, I think it was a poor choice for the PC/AT. You can bet, however, that someone got a big raise for thinking up a way to get two ports out through a backpanel where only one might otherwise have fit, just as someone probably did for thinking up that "twisted cable" scheme for PC floppy and hard disks. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:15 AM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. > > Oh, but then you lose a lot of fun. The Amiga DB25 serial port features > among others audio output on some pins. =) > > > And Apple used the 8 pin mini-DIN on the Mac+ and later because there > > wasn't room for the DE9 connector used on the earler Macs. Hardware > > hackers have been complaining ever since -- those mini-DINs are about the > > worst connectors in the world to wire! > > Try a DIN-13 for size. > > From gene at ehrich.com Thu Apr 12 09:56:07 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Tampa Area Sites In-Reply-To: References: <200104121238.IAA20402@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010412105511.00ae8650@popmail.voicenet.com> At 08:20 AM 4/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on >good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies. What about the Tampa Bay area. Any good locations around here? From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 10:11:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's a good distance from Chicago, about 300 miles SE. I'm not even sure if DRMO os called DRMO anymore or if they do anything other than through sales dates. Ft. Knox only does sales as posted, and they sometimes post a listing and may or may not allow preinspection. Most of the govt stuff now comes without HDs as well. Not too bad for somethings but it can be a pain for notebooks and laptops. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of brian roth > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:25 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Chicago Area Sites > > > Bob, > > I don't know how far it is from Chicago but I used to go to the > DRMO salvage sale at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, > Ohio. Its been a while since I have been to one but there used to > be some good stuff that used to go through that sale. > > Brian. > > > Brian Roth > Network Services > First Niagara Bank > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 10:19:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The bad thing is with all that industry and potential for lots of excess, the scrappers get a lot of it direct and strip it for various reclaimables. Which brings up a though for people further south in IL...There is a scrapper in Urbana IL that does much the same and I've seen PDP's, IBM 6262 printers, Univac remotes and all sorts of heavy items go through there back when I lived there up until 93. I used to go parts searching for my truck and didn't really have the room or need for classics then but anyone that is in the area of C-U and want to explore a possible venue should go to I-74 at Lincoln and go north on Lincoln just across the road from the UPS center. I forget the name of the yard but they charge by the pound rather than by what they think they can get for it. If you check into what they have in the big building up front you migth find interesting stuff on a regular basis. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jason McBrien > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sites > > > There's American Science and Surplus which is out on the outskirts of > Chicago on Milwaukee(sp?), they also have a few branches scattered around > the suburbs. I'm vacationing in Chicago for a few days at the end of the > month and would like to know any other places that have anything as well. > You'd think there'd be tons of surplus computer places around that area, > what with Argonne, FermiLab, Newark Electronics, and Motorola all living > near. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Brown" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM > Subject: Chicago Area Sites > > > > I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on > > good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies.... > > > > Either there aren't many people on the list familier with this area, or > > there aren't any good places in this area (hard to believe due to the > > population), or the people who know are keeping it to themselves... > > > > I've lived here all my life and I still don't know if a good surplus > > computer store around here...anyone with any ideas? > > > > thanks. > > > > -Bob > > > > From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Apr 12 10:35:53 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually the Titan in Tuscon is slightly famous. Parts of a Star Trek movie were filmed there. It is the one where Picard and crew chased the Borg back in time to allow the first Warp travel flight. It is a bit strange to think that a vehicle like the one there might have caused so much distruction but remember the Titan also flew the Gemini spacecraft in the 60's advancing the knowledge of manned spaceflight. ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like > research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but > none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you speak of. > Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do they actually > have a Titan in it? > > I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the years while > still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:15 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > > > > At 01:50 12-04-2001 -0700, Mike wrote: > > > > >BTW a really neat spot south of Tucson is the ONLY Titan missile > > site still > > >intact, and its open for tours. > > > > I appreciate the thought, Mike, but using what little time > > I will have to > > scrounge touring something with an ultimately destructive purpose is just > > not very high on my priority list. > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > > superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). > > From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 12 10:36:53 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 12, 2001 04:03:27 pm" Message-ID: <200104121536.IAA00470@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > Sharp 6800? forgetting another damn model number > > Not an X68000, pray tell? Unfortunately not. It's just another one of their ubiquitous pocket computer/calculators. Eric From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Apr 12 10:49:09 2001 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Arizona trip References: Message-ID: <3AD5CE74.ECAA9800@halcyon.com> Standing on the top of Kitt Peak (50 miles SW of Tucson) at night during the 60's and 70's you could see a dozen or so Titan sites on the surrounding desert floor. They had a couple of green lights. If you saw these lights turn red, you knew it was time to duck. The road to Kitt Peak passed within a few hundred feet of one site. Maybe this is the "museum"? Dave Russ Blakeman wrote: > > There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like > research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but > none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you speak of. > Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do they actually > have a Titan in it? > > I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the years while > still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Thu Apr 12 11:08:43 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago area sites Message-ID: I can understand the hard drive issue. I used to live in Kentucky and I used to go to the sale at Ft. Knox every month. It definitely was my favorite DRMO sale behind Columbus. Quite often, the machines I received had "A LOT" of information on them that although not classified, was certainly private. It Brian. was fun rummaging around all the lots of equipment with rounds of ordinance blasting in the distance. I'll never forget on one of my best huals of equipment, I wedged a Penske rental truck under one of the overpass's there. A couple of soldiers help me let the air out of the tires and reinflate them when it was clear. Its hilarious when I think of it now but when it happened...... Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 12 11:11:37 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) (Lawrence Walker) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbo x> <3AD50F18.6941.51DF78@localhost> Message-ID: <15061.54201.374327.438500@phaduka.neurotica.com> The likelihood of someone having six Apple 1s is similar to that of having an i432 dev system, the original 4004 mask set, an ibm 5100 proto, an EDSAC1, or a shrinkwrapped Cray-1. Or even possibly Steve Wozniak (hopefully in shrinkwrap) etc etc etc. -Dave McGuire On April 12, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Was this a typo or do you really have 6 Apple 1's. > > larry > > > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > > >would accept (too large). > > > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > > quantity after all: > > > > - i432 development system > > - the original 4004 mask set > > - IBM 5100 prototype > > - Apple I (qty 6) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) > > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 > > > > My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this stuff in the > > garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for some calculators or > > something smaller. > > > > ----- > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > > > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 11:27:19 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010412162719.76212.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Your thinking of the Heath H11 which was in fact an LSI-11/02. But it had > none DEC hardware peripherals like the console SLU and disk controller. My H-11 came with a KDF-11 CPU (11/23), but I don't know if it was shipped that way or if my boss (who bought it new) upgraded it himself. I have a couple of the Heath serial cards (one unsoldered!), the H-27 disk controller, the 8" floppies and a pile of misc DEC cards (memory, BDV-11 boot card, etc). > I believe it came with something billed as HT-11 which was RT-11 with the > necessary heath drivers. We ran RT-11 v5.something (c. 1987) with an RLV11 and RL01/RL02. Before anyone jumps in, yes, I know the RLV11 uses the CD-interconnect between the boards - my boss "extended" the width of the case with 6-32 threaded rod and made his own CD-interconnect with Heath backplane connectors and wire-wrap wire. I have folded the case back together and am trying to debug the H-27 (he never used it). Except for the monsterous holes he blew in the side to mount additional fans, and the holes in the front he added for external console baud rate switches, it resembles its original form once again. This whole thing was a development machine for an ultrasonic parts inspector. You would put the product in a water bath and the PDP-11 would run a motion controller and ultrasonic pinger that took 4-bit samples every so many milliseconds. Think of it as a slow scanner. The box had a 3rd party "scatter gather" DMA card, a high-res video card (512x512) and a bunch of PASCAL and assembler code to tie it all together. The production system was a DEC PDP-11/73 w/4Mb physical memory and a Fuji Eagle for a disk. My own development environment was a DEC PDP-11/23 (a returned "HASPBOX" I got when I worked at Software Results as a bench tech - cost me $300) with 32kW MOS memory, an RLV11 (in a BA-11N; no handmade jumpers in *my* box) and an LPV-11 w/LA180 for printing program listings. I loved the fact that since I recycled peripherals from my PDP-8/a, the $300 plus $100 for an RLV11 was my only out-of-pocket expense to have my own development machine. My job was to take a pre-existing data set and extract images according to a script and display them on the screen as a training aid, then give quizzes - all in MACRO-11 (customer spec - the listings were more than 300 pages). It was one of the hardest programming jobs I've ever had, but was one of the most fun. My bonus for getting it all done on time was a VAX-11/725 ($4000 at the time). Wish I still had it. Glad I got the H-11 when the boss moved. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Apr 12 04:07:12 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:09:33 CDT." <3AD4D61D.330D6259@southwind.net> Message-ID: <200104120907.KAA02548@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Joel Ewy said: > > Well, I would like to get ahold of any kind of Motorola 68K machine that can run Linux/68K. No good reason, but the people on this list should be able to sympathize, if not understand. I guess my Performa 636 could if I can bring myself to pay the money I will have to pay to replace the brain-damaged LC040 with one posessing an FPU, though I hear rumor that the floating point > emulation is a little better these days. Find a new motherboard, or a whole computer - They're real chap these days, cheaper than a new chip! Subscribe to the ClassicMacs list: To subscribe to the Classic Macs mailing list, send an email to . In the body of the message write: subscribe classics You will be added within a day. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 12:10:35 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? (Was: large load (cont)) References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> "from Jay West at Apr 9,1 12:54:19 pm" <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> <987036048.3ad4f9901a3d6@email.ou.edu> <3AD51273.75DE357@dragonsweb.org> <987046594.3ad522c20f62a@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AD5E18B.591BF98B@dragonsweb.org> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Quoting "James B. DiGriz" : > > You don't suppose you could get that maintenance guy to show you where > > the machine is and check if there are any salvageable parts, if you get > > a chance, do you? > > I'll check and get back to you. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu Thanks, Jeffrey. No rush. It if isn't completely ruined at this point, whatever's left will keep a while longer. jbdigriz From red at bears.org Thu Apr 12 12:12:37 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104121536.IAA00470@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: What the heck, I'll jump in and see how good my memory is. I'm including some of the more modern systems which don't fall under the charter of this list, just because I consider them 'classic' anyway. Apollo - DN4000 - DN5500 Apple - Apple ][plus (several) - Apple ][ clones (various) - Apple //c - Apple //gs (2) - Apple //c+ - Macintosh - Macintosh 512k - Macintosh Plus - Macintosh SE/30 (2) - Macintosh IIsi - Macintosh Quadra 700 - PowerMacintosh 8500/180 - Network Server 700 Atari - 400 - 800 - 800xl - 1200xl Coleco Adam Commodore - VIC20 (several) - C=64 (several) - C=128 - C=128DCR - B128 - Plus4 - Amiga 500 (2) - Amiga 3000 Compaq - Deskpro 286 - Portable II - Deskpro XL 5/90 (2) Convergent Technology - NGEN Workstation (8 MHz 80186) - NGEN Series 286 - NGEN Series 386+ Data General - Nova - AViiON 310/CD Digital Equipment Corp - MicroPDP 11/73 - VAXstation 3100 m76 Franklin Ace 1000 Heath/Zenith H89 Hewlett Packard - 9000 345 - 9000 715/50 (2) - 9000 715/80 (2) IBM - PCjr - PS/2 9595-0MT - PC Server 520 - PC Server 315 - Thinkpad RS/6000 prototype - i486 EISA clone Jupiter Ace (several) Kaypro 10 Laser - 50 - 128 LNW Research LNW-80 NeXT - NeXTcube - NeXTstation - Daydream Northstar Advantage Olivetti P6060 (does anybody know anything about this?) Ohio Scientific C1P Random S100 CP/M crate Silicon Graphics - IRIS 3130 - Indigo R4400 Elan - Webforce Indy R5000 - R10000 Indigo2 Impact Spectravideo 328 Sun - SPARCstation 5 - SPARCstation 20 Symbolics 3650 Tandy Corp. - TRS-80, 4k Level 1, no keypad (eat your heart out Enrico Tedeschi) - TRS-80 Model 1 (several) - TRS-80 Model 3 - TRS-80 Model 4P (two) - TRS-80 Model 16 - TRS-80 Color Computer 2 - TRS-80 Micro Color Computer MC-10 Teletype ASR35 Texas Instruments TI-99/4A (several) Tomy Tutor Toshiba T1100 plus the obligatory boxes of spares and accessories. I owe a couple of the 8 bit micros (we haven't yet decided which) to David Williams (I haven't forgotten). From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 12:14:49 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: <381360216.987095689069.JavaMail.root@web537-wrb.mail.com> ------Original Message------ From: Ethan Dicks --- Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Your thinking of the Heath H11 which was in fact an LSI-11/02. But it had It shipped as an LSI-11/03 CPU and heath made memory and IO. My H-11 came with a KDF-11 CPU (11/23), but I don't know if it was shipped that way or if my boss (who bought it new) upgraded it himself. Yep, never shipped with 11/23 (KDF-11A). It was discontinued by then if anything. I have a couple of the Heath serial cards (one unsoldered!), the H-27 disk controller, the 8" floppies and a pile of misc DEC cards (memory, BDV-11 boot card, etc). The heath seriial card was a fairly flexible card copared to the usual DEC DL-11. to debug the H-27 (he never used it). Except for the monsterous holes he blew in the side to mount additional fans, and the holes in the front he added for external console baud rate switches, it resembles its original form once again. The fans and switches were a common mod and handy too. Allison __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 12:23:01 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff Message-ID: <384727531.987096181070.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> From: Bill Gunshannon >>Your thinking of the Heath H11 which was in fact an LSI-11/02. But it had none DEC hardware peripherals like the console SLU and disk controller. IT was an LSI-11/03. The 03 card had 4kw or ram on it and was quad width where the /02 card was dual width and no ram. >>By the way, they were not the only non-DEC LSI-11 system. The Terak also was an 11/02 with custom console and disk hardware. The list of companies that also shipped the base dec hardware repackaged is rather lone and includes Charles River, ISI, DSD, Tektronix and likely many I missed. DEC sold those boards (cpu and supporting) as peice parts for the embedded systems of the day to people that did NC mills, gas analysers, plant controls to name a few. It's part of the reason why PDP-11 Qbus hardware is so common and still in widespread use. Allison -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From ewy at southwind.net Thu Apr 12 12:34:28 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: CDP-1802 Final List Message-ID: <3AD5E724.9C9FA4AC@southwind.net> Ok, I'm going to close the list for the 1802s for now. Here are the people I have. If you sent me email about this and I've missed you, let me know. Dave McGuire Alex Knight Peter Turnbull Ethan Dicks Mike Haas Robert Cobbins Tony Eros Mike Cheponis Chandra Bajpai Richard A. Cini, Jr. Jeff Hellige Richard Schauer I'll be in touch with each of you individually by email to confirm that you still want the parts and exchange shipping addresses and so forth. I think that personal checks will probably be the easiest thing for me to handle at this point. Some of you have suggested PayPal, and I'll probably look into that in the future, but if I try to set that up right now it'll just delay things further. Sorry I'm not real quick about all this -- I can do real preemptive multitasking, but I've only got an 8-bit data bus to work with, and I have to keep swapping these clunky 8K blocks in and out of my 16-bit address space. Besides, I've got to do all this to the tune of a 1.87 Mhz clock. But I _do_ have a hardware MUL! That's all to say that I'll get it all done, but it may take me a while. If any of you have a real good reason to want to get some chips fast, let me know and I'll push you on the stack last. JCE -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Apr 12 12:35:42 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? Message-ID: I think there was an entire line of TI minicomputers that were sold off by TI to HP. I have part of a TI explorer and several TI 1100's and 1500's. These minicomputers are still used by several HMO's in Kansas City for some medical billing application. My local computer surplus has 6-7 of them. There were ASCII TI terminals that went with the system. I seem to remember that there was a terminal emulation application for the TI-99/4's. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Apr 12 12:12:35 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? References: Message-ID: <015601c0c373$c4bc3d20$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:35 AM Subject: Re: TI Minicomputer? > I seem to remember > that there was a terminal emulation application for the TI-99/4's. The most common cartridge (oops, sorry, "Solid State Software") based one was called Terminal Emulator II. For people with the PEB and disk drive, there were much better disk based emulators available. Cheers, Mark. From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 12:43:03 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbo x> <3AD50F18.6941.51DF78@localhost> <15061.54201.374327.438500@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD5E927.7C62DBF7@greenbelt.com> I would believe that someone actually had an Area 51 alien in the basement before I would believe that they had six Apple 1's, an i432 dev system, the original 4004 mask set, an ibm 5100 proto, an EDSAC1, or a shrinkwrapped Cray-1. Hey, but I'm not implying that Woz is an Area 51 alien! :) Eric Dave McGuire wrote: > The likelihood of someone having six Apple 1s is similar to that of > having an i432 dev system, the original 4004 mask set, an ibm 5100 > proto, an EDSAC1, or a shrinkwrapped Cray-1. Or even possibly Steve > Wozniak (hopefully in shrinkwrap) etc etc etc. > > -Dave McGuire > > On April 12, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Was this a typo or do you really have 6 Apple 1's. > > > > larry > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > > > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > > > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > > > >would accept (too large). > > > > > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > > > quantity after all: > > > > > > - i432 development system > > > - the original 4004 mask set > > > - IBM 5100 prototype > > > - Apple I (qty 6) > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > > > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > > > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) > > > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > > > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 > > > > > > My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this stuff in the > > > garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for some calculators or > > > something smaller. > > > > > > ----- > > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@look.ca From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 12 11:44:09 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD50F18.1407.51DFA0@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > This came up on the list a couple of springs ago. It should be in the > archives. My collection has about doubled since then but I haven't > done an inventory update for some time. IIRC about 30 or so collection > lists were posted. Quite interesting to see the collecting bias' of > the different list members. Did I post a list before? That must've been waaaay back when I actually could remember what I had (and the number of systems was less than 100). I am in the process of making a "list", but it's actually an inventory. It will take several man-days/weeks to compile, and will require an SQL database to hold it all :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 12 11:45:49 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD50F18.6941.51DF78@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Was this a typo or do you really have 6 Apple 1's. Read the message more carefully. Then imagine your leg being tugged at :) > > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > > >would accept (too large). > > > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > > quantity after all: > > > > - i432 development system > > - the original 4004 mask set > > - IBM 5100 prototype > > - Apple I (qty 6) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) > > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 > > > > My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this stuff in the > > garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for some calculators or > > something smaller. > > > > ----- > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Apr 12 12:58:28 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites References: Message-ID: Must be UIUC stuff, the NCSA is HQ'd around there somewhere.. Mmmm.. vintage supercomputers.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: RE: Chicago Area Sites > The bad thing is with all that industry and potential for lots of excess, > the scrappers get a lot of it direct and strip it for various reclaimables. > > > Which brings up a though for people further south in IL...There is a > scrapper in Urbana IL that does much the same and I've seen PDP's, IBM 6262 > printers, Univac remotes and all sorts of heavy items go through there back > when I lived there up until 93. I used to go parts searching for my truck > and didn't really have the room or need for classics then but anyone that is > in the area of C-U and want to explore a possible venue should go to I-74 at > Lincoln and go north on Lincoln just across the road from the UPS center. I > forget the name of the yard but they charge by the pound rather than by what > they think they can get for it. If you check into what they have in the big > building up front you migth find interesting stuff on a regular basis. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jason McBrien > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sites > > > > > > There's American Science and Surplus which is out on the outskirts of > > Chicago on Milwaukee(sp?), they also have a few branches scattered around > > the suburbs. I'm vacationing in Chicago for a few days at the end of the > > month and would like to know any other places that have anything as well. > > You'd think there'd be tons of surplus computer places around that area, > > what with Argonne, FermiLab, Newark Electronics, and Motorola all living > > near. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bob Brown" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM > > Subject: Chicago Area Sites > > > > > > > I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on > > > good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies.... > > > > > > Either there aren't many people on the list familier with this area, or > > > there aren't any good places in this area (hard to believe due to the > > > population), or the people who know are keeping it to themselves... > > > > > > I've lived here all my life and I still don't know if a good surplus > > > computer store around here...anyone with any ideas? > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 12 11:47:06 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:12 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <000901c0c323$c04b35c0$ad9eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Forgot a couple: > > Heath H-89A > Apple/Bandai Pippin (not 10 yrs. old, but pretty cool) > > Speaking OT and of Pippin, does anyone have any > software to trade or sell? Hmmm, I just recently came across one for the first time (not for sale, it was part of a collection I was appraising). How many games were actually made for this thing? Did it ever make it to market? If not, why? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 13:08:41 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <384727531.987096181070.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> Message-ID: <20010412180841.71559.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- ajp me wrote: > The list of companies that also shipped the base dec hardware repackaged is > rather lone and includes Charles River, ISI, > DSD, Tektronix and likely many I missed. DEC sold those boards > (cpu and supporting) as peice parts for the embedded systems... Before Software Results created the MC68000-based COMBOARD, they used to ship a similar product that was 100% DEC hardware, 100% SRC software, called a HASPBOX. One incarnation was an 11/04, later the 11/23. They all had a COM5025-based serial board (DPV11? DUV11?) and a parallel interface (DLV11?) to the host PDP-11/VAX. It was, essentially, a sync serial IO Front End Processor (FEP). The HASPBOX took ASCII data a block at a time, parallel, and spoke EBCDIC a character at a time, out the bisync port. The idea was that this PDP-11 took over the burden of the details of the protocol conversion. Additionally, you could specify that jobs sent to the IBM could be printed on a line printer attached directly to the HASPBOX (which is how I got my LPV11), sparing the host PDP-11 of the additional load to the print queues. It may not sound like a big deal now, but in 1979, it was huge. The HASPBOX had no disk or tape, so I'm not sure how they loaded the software. Probably ODT over the console SLU. By the time I worked there, they had shipped over 1000 COMBOARDs and were feverishly working on the SNA product line. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 12 11:57:15 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <00a701c0c35a$0fc64960$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Mark Gregory wrote: > I remember the Icons well from my school days. I have a semi-serious belief > that the Ontario government and/or the Toronto Board of Education has > attempted to erase all evidence that the Icon ever existed. For those who > didn't grow up in Southern Ontario, the Icon project was an ambitious early > attempt to put a computer in every school. Unfortunately, it was sabotaged > by the politically motivated insistence on a "made in Canada" solution. > > A consortium was put together that created proprietary hardware running a > Unix variant (years before Linux put Unix in the mainstream). In a world > rapidly being swamped by the enthusiasm and high hopes of the "Home > Computing" revolution, where Commodore, Apple and Atari were king, the Icon > was a costly failure. It limped along for a few years, but once the > government lost its initial enthusiasm for computer-assisted learning, the > plug was quickly pulled. The last place I remember seeing an Icon was at > the Ontario Science Centre, where they were used to run programs like > Forest fire fighting simulations. I'd love to get one if I ever run across > one. Yes, I'd like to add one to my collection too. I'm seriously interested: cash or trade. If any of you in the 51st US State come across an extra one please let me know :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Apr 12 13:11:06 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Bandai/Apple Pippin (Was Collection list (just for phun)) References: Message-ID: I recall seeing one of these a few years ago in one of those CDW Direct liquidation catalogs. They sold them first in the Far East, then "Marketed" them here for a few months before pulling the plug. The catalog listed about 10 games if I remember correctly, and if they were in a liquidation catalog those were probably the only games ever made. They seemed to me mostly older PC game ports, Sim City is the only one I remember. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > Forgot a couple: > > > > Heath H-89A > > Apple/Bandai Pippin (not 10 yrs. old, but pretty cool) > > > > Speaking OT and of Pippin, does anyone have any > > software to trade or sell? > > Hmmm, I just recently came across one for the first time (not for sale, it > was part of a collection I was appraising). How many games were actually > made for this thing? > > Did it ever make it to market? If not, why? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Thu Apr 12 13:10:57 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: VCF East in Worcester Message-ID: I'll batch up my replies into one, sorry for the non-attributions.... >What about facilities for those choosing more reasonable means of long >and short distance transportation, such as train stations and boarding >stables? Trains, yes, an Amtrak station, but as others have pointed out, the route may not be direct. I would suggest calling Amtrak and trying to find out about direct routes. Other than that, you could go to Boston or Providence, and most likely get transport to Worcester from there (by bus, most likely, and it's only about 1hr. from Boston, or 45 min. from Providence by bus/car)... >> By the way, do I get any points for suggesting Worcester? :-) >Yes, as in the points surrounding a bulls-eye painted on you so that >we can keep score when the pieces of buck-shot, or at least peas from >pea-shooters, start heading your way for choosing such an annoyingly >distant location for most people on the east coast - and for >suggesting that the festival be held on the wrong side of the >Mason-Dixon line. :-) HEY! I just suggested it. Sellam chose it! :-) And as I understand it, it was a very scientific method he used to choose the spot. :-) I never even dreamed he was thinking of New England until he mentioned Providence, so I just jumped in. I figured Boston would be WAY too expensive, especially if Providence was... Besides "annoyingly distant" is relative -- as your annoyance goes down, mine goes up :-) >The plus is the Ararat restaurant on Burncoat Street, which is about the >only thing I can think ofto go to Worcester for. The Higgins Armoury >is pretty cool, though. For eats, Eric's La Pattisserie, Shorah's, The Firehouse Cafe, Aku-Aku (not great, but close to the venue), and Cafe Dolce (EXCELLENT coffee/tea/pastries!) come to mind. For entertainment, try these: EcoTarium, Foothills Theater, Mechanics Hall, and the Worcester Art Museum. For shopping, the Worcester Common Outlets are right next door to the Centrum Center (also a decent fast-food food court) There are many more, but I'm of course biased :-) I will admit however that Providence's Federal Hill area trounces most Worcester restaurants, and you might even get a chance to see the resident criminal^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H mayor Buddy Cianci at one :-) Rich B. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 13:12:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Apr12.142037edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> I don't know if it was for Titan's, but I ran across a webpage a couple of years ago that showed a photographic tour of a missle silo that the photographer and his buddy had managed to gain access to. The silo had been under padlock and parts of it were flooded and/or caved in, but there were still parts to equipment and such down there. It was pretty interesting. Jeff On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 10:47 AM, Russ Blakeman wrote: > There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like > research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but > none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you speak > of. > Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do they > actually > have a Titan in it? > > I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the years > while > still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 13:08:45 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Apr12.142336edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > I don't know how far it is from Chicago but I used to go to the DRMO > salvage sale at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. Its > been a while since I have been to one but there used to be some good > stuff that used to go through that sale. DRMO sales used to rock. Too bad anymore they tend to mostly be older 386-era machines. I used to get all kinds of cool non-Intel hardware at their sales though. I imagine you can still get some pretty cool non-computer equipment at them. Jeff From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 13:16:34 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <381360216.987095689069.JavaMail.root@web537-wrb.mail.com> Message-ID: <20010412181634.89252.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- ajp me wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > ...Except for the monsterous holes he blew in the side to mount additional > fans, and the holes in the front he added for external console baud rate > switches, it resembles its original form once again. > > The fans and switches were a common mod and handy too. Common, yes, but he didn't have to do such a hack job. This guy even soldered wires to the pins in the DLV11-J connector rather than buy a DEC connector. He soldered a coax cable to the bottom of the (expensive) third-party graphics board because he didn't want to get a 1/4" coax connector. I still have the Heath serial board with the wires and switches dangling from it. Maybe I'll start a web page for ugly user hacks. It reminds me of the "joke" that says in part "the... scariest things in the universe are... a programmer with a soldering iron." I used to work for him. Great guy, brilliant, but he will never win any awards for finesse. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 12 13:22:53 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <200104121252.IAA17534@wordstock.com> <00a701c0c35a$0fc64960$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <006b01c0c37d$a29843b0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" > From: "Bryan Pope" > > > > In all the collections I am seeing I am surprised no one has listed an ICON. > > I believe this system was local to Ontario, Canada. The systems were made > > especially for schools, with a bunch of them in my high school. Either the > > GUI or the paint package included was called AMBIENCE. The OS was QNX. The > > case was like the PETs - steel one piece with monitor. But it was a colour > > monitor and there was also a trackball. > A consortium was put together that created proprietary hardware running a > Unix variant (years before Linux put Unix in the mainstream). In a world > rapidly being swamped by the enthusiasm and high hopes of the "Home > Computing" revolution, where Commodore, Apple and Atari were king, the Icon > was a costly failure. It limped along for a few years, but once the > government lost its initial enthusiasm for computer-assisted learning, the > plug was quickly pulled. The last place I remember seeing an Icon was at > the Ontario Science Centre, where they were used to run programs like > Forest fire fighting simulations. I'd love to get one if I ever run across > one. I wish I'd know more about them, I saw 4 in a junk shop a few months back, but without any software or manuals. They looked pretty beat up and I think they wanted $10 cdn each for them. I have QNX on a CD and they're located not too far from here. I'm still looking for NVRAM to revive a sparc 1+, a cable to get the VAXstation connected as well as complete ICON, timex Sinclair, TI, TRS80, coco, and a SOL. Garage sales are just starting so I'm hopeful that I'll find a few more. From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Thu Apr 12 13:31:32 2001 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Crays and i432s (Was: RE: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (jus t for phun)) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8EC3@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> I wonder if the shrinkwrapped Cray-1 has one of those shrinkwrap licenses... i.e. "By opening this package you are agreeing to..." :) BTW, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on an i432... a long time ago ('84?) I actually worked on one for a year or so in an attempt to get it to do something useful. I had some success, but was continually hampered by having to run over to another building to use their VAX as a cross-compiler. Now that I have a VAX sitting on my desk at home I imagine I could probably do quite a bit more! It was a unique architecture (quite a bit ahead of it's time) but hampered by the lack of provision for I/O (usually handled by a 8086 co-processor board) and the lack of a native OS based development package. -al- > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) > > > > The likelihood of someone having six Apple 1s is similar to that of > having an i432 dev system, the original 4004 mask set, an ibm 5100 > proto, an EDSAC1, or a shrinkwrapped Cray-1. Or even possibly Steve > Wozniak (hopefully in shrinkwrap) etc etc etc. > > -Dave McGuire > > On April 12, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Was this a typo or do you really have 6 Apple 1's. > > > > larry > > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > > > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you > would be hard > > > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that > the list server > > > >would accept (too large). > > > > > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on > quality than > > > quantity after all: > > > > > > - i432 development system > > > - the original 4004 mask set > > > - IBM 5100 prototype > > > - Apple I (qty 6) > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > > > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > > > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs > power cycling) > > > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > > > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 > > > > > > My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this > stuff in the > > > garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for > some calculators or > > > something smaller. > > > > > > ----- > > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@look.ca > From g at kurico.com Thu Apr 12 13:30:31 2001 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: References: <200104121536.IAA00470@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3AD5ADF7.28599.E23DB59@localhost> Well I guess I'll join in. I haven't been keeping proper inventory for the last year and half now, so I have even more stuff since (though I have included some of the stuff off the top of my head). Apple Mac Lisa II/Mac XL Mac 128K Mac 512K Mac Plus Mac SE Mac SE/30 Mac Classic Mac Classic II Mac IIfx Mac IIcx Mac IIvx Mac LC MacCharlie Mac Portables Mac Portable Powerbook 100 Duo 230 Duo 280 Duo 280c Other Apple Apple II Apple II+ Apple IIe Apple IIc Apple IIc+ PC Compatable Portables Compaq IBM 5140 IBM PC XT/286 IBM PS/2 P70 Panasonic Executive Partner Compaq Portable III Panasonic TurbosPort 386 Visual Computer Commuter US Data General DG One Toshiba T3200SX Zenith Supersport (ZWL-184-02) Zenith Laptop Computer (ZFL-171-42) Grid 1810 PC Compatables IBM Personal Computer 5150 IBM PCjr MindSet Tandy 1000 AT&T PC-6300 ACT Apricot F1 Laser Compact XT Sanyo MBC-555 Amstrad PC1512 PCs Limited Turbo XT PCs Limited 286 Workstations Xerox 8010 Sun 2/120 Sun 3/60 Sun SLC Sun SparcClassic FirePower PPC NeXT Dimension NeXTStation NeXTStation Turbo Color DEC Alpha AXPpci AT&T 3B2/310 AT&T 3B2/600 AT&T UnixPC Integraph ???? HP 9000/300 Apollo DN3000 Mentor Graphics/Apollo DN300 Motorola MPC-xxxx MIPS MP800 TI Explorer II IBM RT ???? SGI Indigo SGI Indy DG Aviion ???? HP PA/RISC (several) Commodore VIC20 64 SX64 Amiga 1000 Amiga 500 Amiga 600 B128 Other 8bit Home Computers Atari 1040ST TI 99/4A Franklin Ace 1000 Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer Radio Shack TRS-80 Micro Color Computer (MC-10) Yamaha CX5M Sony SMC-70 CP/M (includes combo DOS/CP/M) HeathKit H89 Zenith Z-100 CompuPro 8/16 CompuPro 68000 Altos 8000-2a Osborne OS1 (flimsy tan case) Osborne OS1 (newer plastic case) Osborne Executive Kaypro II Kaypro 2 Kaypro 2x Kaypro 1 Vector Graphic Vector 4 Epson QX10 PDA's/Handhelds AT&T EO440 Apple Newton MessagePad (OMP) Tandy Model 100 Tandy Model 102 Olympia HHC Panasonic HHC (RL-H1400) TI Compact Computer 40 Motorola Envoy Calculators HP9100A HP25 HP35 HP45 HP97 Several other HP's Other Multiflow Trace 14/300 DEC MicroVax???? DECMate III+ Canon Cat Motorola Educator II Kit SBC HP-85 PDP 11/xxx PDP 11/yyy Intel iPSC/860 IBM RS/6000 Model 990 3x Heathkit Hero 1 From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 13:42:53 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Bandai/Apple Pippin (Was Collection list (just for phun)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01Apr12.145107edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> There are also a lot of the Apple M4120 Set Top boxes being sold on eBay as the Pippin, or at least referencing Pippin documentation in the description. The M4120 was actually the 2nd of the Set Top boxes and released into a test run with British Telecom prior to Pippin. Jeff On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 02:11 PM, Jason McBrien wrote: > I recall seeing one of these a few years ago in one of those CDW Direct > liquidation catalogs. They sold them first in the Far East, then > "Marketed" > them here for a few months before pulling the plug. The catalog listed > about > 10 games if I remember correctly, and if they were in a liquidation > catalog > those were probably the only games ever made. They seemed to me mostly > older > PC game ports, Sim City is the only one I remember. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:47 PM > Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) > > >> On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: >> >>> Forgot a couple: >>> >>> Heath H-89A >>> Apple/Bandai Pippin (not 10 yrs. old, but pretty cool) >>> >>> Speaking OT and of Pippin, does anyone have any >>> software to trade or sell? >> >> Hmmm, I just recently came across one for the first time (not for >> sale, it >> was part of a collection I was appraising). How many games were >> actually >> made for this thing? >> >> Did it ever make it to market? If not, why? >> >> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- >> International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org >> >> > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 12 13:48:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <01Apr12.142037edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010412114037.03732450@208.226.86.10> For the last 5 to 10 years you could _buy_ a silo from the Gov't as long as you promised not to reactivate it :-) There is an article in Popular Science about a couple that converted one to living space. At a dinner I attended one person there claimed to have bought one (can you say crazy but lucky Silicon Valley type that got out of the market in time?) and has been renovating it for living/storage space. There were several different types, the vertical Titan II types and the horizontal Minuteman types. (He has a vertical one I believe) It had quite a bit of equipment left behind in it that wasn't considered worth either destroying or hauling out (much gear was carried in as pieces and assembled inside). The most useful thing that he has salvaged was the Onan 50Kw power generator that supplies power, the "coolest" thing is the "scram lift" that gets you down to the bottom really quickly. Now frankly he certainly had the means to pull this off but I give his tale only about 40% credibility rating as there is something of the story telling aspect to it. He offered a tour when it was done so I'll follow up when I get his call to come visit ... --Chuck At 02:12 PM 4/12/2001 -0400, jeff wrote: > I don't know if it was for Titan's, but I ran across a webpage a > couple of years ago that showed a photographic tour of a missle silo that > the photographer and his buddy had managed to gain access to. The silo > had been under padlock and parts of it were flooded and/or caved in, but > there were still parts to equipment and such down there. It was pretty > interesting. From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Apr 12 13:49:23 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: VCF East in Worcester In-Reply-To: from "Rich Beaudry" at Apr 12, 01 02:10:57 pm Message-ID: <200104121849.OAA04895@wordstock.com> > > For eats, Eric's La Pattisserie, Shorah's, The Firehouse Cafe, Aku-Aku (not There used to be an Aku-Aku in Cambridge right beside the Alewife T station. Same thing? > great, but close to the venue), and Cafe Dolce (EXCELLENT > coffee/tea/pastries!) come to mind. For entertainment, try these: > EcoTarium, Foothills Theater, Mechanics Hall, and the Worcester Art Museum. > For shopping, the Worcester Common Outlets are right next door to the > Centrum Center (also a decent fast-food food court) > Are the Worcester Common Outlets a whole bunch of outlet stores? Where you could your wife all day long? ;-) Speaking of good restaurants, we have drove 1 hour just to go to this one in Portsmouth, NH -> Margarita's! Best Mexican Food! Bryan From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 13:53:39 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > I think there was an entire line of TI minicomputers that were sold off by > TI to HP. I have part of a TI explorer and several TI 1100's and 1500's. > These minicomputers are still used by several HMO's in Kansas City for some > medical billing application. My local computer surplus has 6-7 of them. > There were ASCII TI terminals that went with the system. I seem to remember > that there was a terminal emulation application for the TI-99/4's. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > Pretty certain the system I remember hearing about was a 990. There indeed a couple of terminal emulater cartridges for the 4A. Kermit was ported to the 990 and the 4A as well, but that would have required an expansion system with drives, which this file server setup was apparently intended to avoid. Little fingers, I guess. Something's tugging at the back of my mind about the Plato courseware, too. jbdigriz From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 13:20:35 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010411205915.3b4f40b2@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 11, 1 08:59:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4045 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/d4c63987/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 13:09:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: GRiDPAD 1910 battery In-Reply-To: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Apr 11, 1 09:48:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1734 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/d281f579/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 13:42:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <001701c0c315$b8cdd2c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 11, 1 11:59:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5341 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/65916775/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 13:44:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Early Grid connector cable In-Reply-To: <3AD50F18.8744.51DF2D@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Apr 12, 1 02:12:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/7adff534/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 13:45:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD50F18.6941.51DF78@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Apr 12, 1 02:12:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 613 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/466ba762/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 13:50:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 12, 1 02:15:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1594 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/3b96550c/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 12 14:20:55 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > Speaking OT and of Pippin, does anyone have any > > software to trade or sell? > > Did it ever make it to market? If not, why? I certainly remember seeing one in an ?hl?ns department store around '94/95. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 12 14:47:28 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: from "James B. DiGriz" at Apr 12, 2001 02:53:39 PM Message-ID: <200104121947.f3CJlSs10622@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Pretty certain the system I remember hearing about was a 990. There indeed > a couple of terminal emulater cartridges for the 4A. Kermit was ported to > the 990 and the 4A as well, but that would have required an expansion > system with drives, which this file server setup was apparently intended > to avoid. Little fingers, I guess. I used to work at TI, and for a while we used a TI 990 minicomputer. I can't remember many details (we replaced the 990 with a MicroVAX II about six months after I started). I remember using TI914 terminals, which were block-mode terminals. I don't remember the name of the operating system, but I do remember the OS was not very secure. There was a TI-developed 914 terminal emulator that was widely used in TI. Long after the 990 systems were gone the 914 terminal emulator was used to connect to the IBM mainframes. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com Thu Apr 12 14:53:51 2001 From: John.Allain at Donnelley.InfoUSA.Com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: VCF East in Worcester In-Reply-To: <200104121849.OAA04895@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <000101c0c38a$4cff8050$0c020d0a@intra.infousa.com> P.S. WHEN is this thing? I checked the VCF www last night briefly but couldn't find it. (Guess that means I like Worcester) John A. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 12 14:54:37 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Arizona trip References: Message-ID: <3AD607FD.E5FABBF@internet1.net> Titans are the big ICBM's right? Have they been replaced with something else, or do we not have any ICBM's anymore? I know Subs (Boomers) have a lot of our missles now. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Mike Ford wrote: > BTW a really neat spot south of Tucson is the ONLY Titan missile site still > intact, and its open for tours. From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 12 14:58:32 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Apple 1's was Re: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: References: <3AD50F18.6941.51DF78@localhost> Message-ID: <3AD5D0A8.29685.34619BF@localhost> Oooh, The great skeptic done been taken. It's because deep inside I do want to believe. I've yet to be able to take posession of the bridges I bought on my last trip. Always read the fine print. larry > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Was this a typo or do you really have 6 Apple 1's. > > Read the message more carefully. Then imagine your leg being tugged at :) > > > > At 07:13 PM 4/10/01 -0400, THETechnoid wrote: > > > >I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be hard > > > >pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the list server > > > >would accept (too large). > > > > > > I don't have a lot of machines, but I do focus more on quality than > > > quantity after all: > > > > > > - i432 development system > > > - the original 4004 mask set > > > - IBM 5100 prototype > > > - Apple I (qty 6) > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > - EDSAC 1 (re-wired to run off 120V) > > > - CRAY-1 (mint; still in shrinkwrap) > > > - Steve Wozniak (mostly working, but sometimes needs power cycling) > > > - Zuse Z1 (does anybody here have a copy of the boot disk?) > > > - Analytical Engine running MSDOS 1.00 > > > > > > My wife is getting kind of pissed about having all this stuff in the > > > garage, though, so I might start trading this stuff for some calculators or > > > something smaller. > > > > > > ----- > > > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Apr 12 14:58:32 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <200104121252.IAA17534@wordstock.com> References: from "Chandra Bajpai" at Apr 11, 01 09:38:37 pm Message-ID: <3AD5D0A8.7577.34619EC@localhost> About a dozen of these came up for sale in a local junk store about 3 years back. Didn't have the money at the time, so I had to pass. There was a similiar venture by the Quebec DoE , the machines were made in France. Can't remember the name. Someplace in Toronto and Montreal there has to be a stash of these. A local collector and former collegue of mine gobbled up a pile of Hyperions and about 10 boxes of related material a couple of years ago here. A considerable number of insurance companies used them. His collection has to be the definitive Hyperion collection. larry > In all the collections I am seeing I am surprised no one has listed an ICON. I > believe this system was local to Ontario, Canada. The systems were made > especially for schools, with a bunch of them in my high school. Either the GUI > or the paint package included was called AMBIENCE. The OS was QNX. The case > was like the PETs - steel one piece with monitor. But it was a colour monitor > and there was also a trackball. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 15:01:10 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: <015601c0c373$c4bc3d20$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Mark Gregory wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "McFadden, Mike" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: TI Minicomputer? > > > > I seem to remember > > that there was a terminal emulation application for the TI-99/4's. > > The most common cartridge (oops, sorry, "Solid State Software") based one > was called Terminal Emulator II. For people with the PEB and disk drive, > there were much better disk based emulators available. > > Cheers, > Mark. > Yes. There were Fast-Term, Mass Transfer, Telco, Term80, Kermit, and also a P-code terminal emulator (TEP), to name most of the major ones. The neat thing about TEII protocol was the sound, graphics, file transfer, and even speech protocols built into it, not that most people used it much after modems got faster than 300 baud. Aside from Texnet on the Source, and Ralph Fowler's TIBBS software, few host platforms supported it for a long time, if ever. Good old Source. They actually gave you a Primos command line and compilers and *encouraged* you to use them. They actually paid you if people ran your code or accessed your databases. Nowadays, you're lucky to find an ISP that'll let you come anywhere near a shell. jbdigriz From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 12 15:00:44 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: VCF East in Worcester In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > I'll batch up my replies into one, sorry for the non-attributions.... ________O/_______ O\ > > I will admit however that Providence's Federal Hill area trounces most > Worcester restaurants, and you might even get a chance to see the resident > criminal^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H mayor Buddy Cianci at one :-) > That must be a real New England thing, Rich. I remember well when the voters in Boston re-elected James Curley as Alderman while he was in in the Charles Jail serving a 60 day sentence after having been convicted of impersonating another Irishman in taking a test for Post Office employment. It was in 1945, as I recall. - don From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 12 15:20:02 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <3AD25255.E4866AE0@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Jeff, > > >From Jeff, Sup to you to figure out how this ties in, but I'll give you a > > hint. Nationalism never got us anywhere. Ask Adolf if you can find him. > > Please don't equate Hitler with Nationalism. True, Hitler used > nationalism but to the level of abuse. Every nation should be able to > have a sense of National pride (nationalism). True. Without nationalism, we'd never have all those Acorns or ICONs. =) > One world govt. won't solve anything, I think it was you who alluded to > one world govt.? For instance, the situation that took place in the > Gulf War, the Iraqis were going after a smaller group in there own > country. Then the whole deal in the former Chekoslovakia (spelling?). World government would solve a lot of things. At least russel said so, and I'm inclined to believe him. As for the Gulf war, I thought that was due to Iraq's attack on another country, not the Kurd situation. The Kurds don't produce enough oil. And as for Czechoslovakia, I can't think of any major problems there. There is a gypsy situation and the usual eastern-bloc poverty, but at least CZ seems to be doing quite fine. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 15:19:50 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD50F18.1407.51DFA0@localhost> References: <3AD50F18.1407.51DFA0@localhost> Message-ID: > This came up on the list a couple of springs ago. It should be in >the archives. >My collection has about doubled since then but I haven't done an inventory >update for some time. IIRC about 30 or so collection lists were posted. Quite >interesting to see the collecting bias' of the different list members. > The definitive list would have to be John Keyes or Sellams collections. I believe this topic came up a few months after the list initially started as well, as I recall people posting their collections. Mine has grown considerably in the roughly 4 years since this lists inception! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Apr 12 15:23:44 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (Icon) In-Reply-To: <200104121252.IAA17534@wordstock.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010412161625.00a65330@mail.wincom.net> At 08:52 AM 12/04/2001 -0400, you wrote: >In all the collections I am seeing I am surprised no one has listed an ICON. >I believe this system was local to Ontario, Canada. The systems were made >especially for schools, with a bunch of them in my high school. Either the >GUI or the paint package included was called AMBIENCE. The OS was QNX. The >case was like the PETs - steel one piece with monitor. But it was a colour >monitor and there was also a trackball. > >Cheers, > >Bryan I have been trying unsuccessfully to track one down. (My high school friends always say" Oh Yeh, we threw them out last month".) So far I have only turned up a little of the documentation and part of a network hub. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 14:10:00 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Heath/Zenith stuff In-Reply-To: <20010412180841.71559.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 12, 1 11:08:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/89f2a152/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 15:43:12 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: COM5025 (was Re: Heath/Zenith stuff) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010412204312.18977.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, does anyone have a pinout for the 48 pin version of the > COM5025? Yes, it seems to have existed, and the pinout is somewhat > similar to the 7990 ethernet chip (!), to the extent that I have a > bridge/router with 3 48 pin sockets that can take either 7990s or 5025s > (there is one jumper to move for each socket, depending on what chip > you've fitted). If you put a 7990 in the socket, you link a header > alongside it to an little PCB with the AUI interface stuff on it. If you > have the 5025, you connect the header to a differnt board with RS232-like > buffers on it. But things like the data pins, etc, must be in the same > places on both chips. Wow! That's strange. Nope... I have tubes and tubes of 40-pin COM5025 chips, but never even heard of a 48-pin version. The bus-side should be easy to divine, but I have no idea about the serial side. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 15:49:24 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: <200104121947.f3CJlSs10622@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > I used to work at TI, and for a while we used a TI 990 > minicomputer. I can't remember many details (we replaced > the 990 with a MicroVAX II about six months after I > started). I remember using TI914 terminals, which were > block-mode terminals. I don't remember the name of the > operating system, but I do remember the OS was not very > secure. Did the 990's go to HP with the Unix systems, or to Siemens or Fujitsu or somebody else, or were they just abandoned? You wouldn't believe how hard it is tracking down 990 and BS300,600,800 stuff, unless you fork out corporate prices at the couple of remaining TI vendors/repair centers.. Believe me, any light you can shed that would help locate parts, documentation, software, etc. will be greatly appreciated by more than myself on this list. > > There was a TI-developed 914 terminal emulator that > was widely used in TI. Long after the 990 systems > were gone the 914 terminal emulator was used to > connect to the IBM mainframes. > I have 3 911 VDT's and a 990/1 here (effectively a 915 since I'm missing a disk subsystem) with my 990/10. Not familiar with the 914 or the 914 emulator. I do know there was 924 emulator for the PC that was extant at one time, but I haven't been able to get hold of a copy. jbdigriz From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 16:09:53 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <3AD619A1.C26C8EB4@greenbelt.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > > > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > > > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > > > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > > > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > > > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. > > > > Oh, but then you lose a lot of fun. The Amiga DB25 serial port features > > among others audio output on some pins. =) > > So presumably using an all-pins-wired cable to link it to some true RS232 > device that happens to implement all the pins is a good way to let magic > smoke out... > > I've actually seen a device that has a single DB25 with the stnadard set > of RS232 signals on the stnadard pins (1-8 and 20 I think), and a > TTL-level Centronics-like parallel port on the other pins. Now that is a > device that you certainly don't connect to just any RS232 port. Same goes with SCSI. I heard a story where a Mac was connected to a RS-232 terminal via the Mac's SCSI connector. Ouch! The motherboard stopped functioning after some of the terminal's +/- 12 volts started flowing thru it. From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 16:12:39 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) References: Message-ID: <3AD61A47.E237E955@greenbelt.com> "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, McFadden, Mike wrote: > > > > > I think there was an entire line of TI minicomputers that were sold off by > > TI to HP. I have part of a TI explorer and several TI 1100's and 1500's. > > These minicomputers are still used by several HMO's in Kansas City for some > > medical billing application. My local computer surplus has 6-7 of them. > > There were ASCII TI terminals that went with the system. I seem to remember > > that there was a terminal emulation application for the TI-99/4's. > > > > Mike > > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > > > Pretty certain the system I remember hearing about was a 990. There indeed > a couple of terminal emulater cartridges for the 4A. Kermit was ported to > the 990 and the 4A as well, but that would have required an expansion > system with drives, which this file server setup was apparently intended > to avoid. Little fingers, I guess. > > Something's tugging at the back of my mind about the Plato courseware, > too. > A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco back in the late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class project in college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of these days and see if I can add two numbers with it. Eric > > jbdigriz From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 12 16:20:21 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3AD607FD.E5FABBF@internet1.net> from Chad Fernandez at "Apr 12, 2001 03:54:37 pm" Message-ID: <200104122120.OAA07353@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Titans are the big ICBM's right? Big enough that they evolved into the biggest (unmanned) launch vehicle that the US now has. > Have they been replaced with something > else, or do we not have any ICBM's anymore? I know Subs (Boomers) have > a lot of our missles now. Last time I checked US still had Minuteman III (1500 warheads on 500 to 750 missiles), MX (950 warheads on a few hundred missiles). I had thought we had gone to a 1 warhead/missile policy since then, though. If that's not enough to make you radiate, the sub fleet carries about 3300 warheads (again, last time I checked) on a hundred or so Trident 1 and 2 missiles. The bomber force has 1500 low yield and a thousand or so megaton sized weapons, and there are 1200 or so nuclear tipped cruise missiles out there, too. Sleep well, Eric From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 16:29:00 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: ugly hacks(was Re: Heath/Zenith stuff) References: <20010412181634.89252.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AD61E1C.81FD83FF@greenbelt.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: [...] > > The fans and switches were a common mod and handy too. > > Common, yes, but he didn't have to do such a hack job. This guy even soldered > wires to the pins in the DLV11-J connector rather than buy a DEC connector. > He soldered a coax cable to the bottom of the (expensive) third-party graphics > board because he didn't want to get a 1/4" coax connector. > > I still have the Heath serial board with the wires and switches dangling from > it. Maybe I'll start a web page for ugly user hacks. It reminds me of the > "joke" that says in part "the... scariest things in the universe are... a > programmer with a soldering iron." I used to work for him. Great guy, > brilliant, but he will never win any awards for finesse. > I used to sell SOL-20s years ago. At that time you had the option to have it bulit or build it youreslf. Some of those "handy" types had no buisness building their own systems., escpecially a plumber. In any event, the worst story was a guy that used acid-core solder to build his SOL. When he dragged it into the shop it looked like hell. I thougt our main tech was either going to cry or actually kill the guy; as he was oscillating between deep sorrow and volcanic anger at a rapid pace. The owner had to step and and tell the tech it was time for him to take lunch at 10:30am. The guy became indignant when he was shown the fine print, "USE ONLY ROSIN-CORE SOLDER." I don't think the guy ever got that Sol fixed or got a replacement from Processor Tech. Eric > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 16:31:18 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites References: Message-ID: <3AD61EA6.7327636F@greenbelt.com> Jason McBrien wrote: > Must be UIUC stuff, the NCSA is HQ'd around there somewhere.. Mmmm.. vintage > supercomputers.... > > Not to mention old copies of 'Mosaic'! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 16:40:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: COM5025 (was Re: Heath/Zenith stuff) In-Reply-To: <20010412204312.18977.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 12, 1 01:43:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1095 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/004fa671/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 12 16:43:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <3AD619A1.C26C8EB4@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Apr 12, 1 05:09:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/fac1ec50/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 12 16:48:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <200104122120.OAA07353@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <3AD607FD.E5FABBF@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010412143248.01d1efc0@208.226.86.10> At 02:20 PM 4/12/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > Titans are the big ICBM's right? > >Big enough that they evolved into the biggest (unmanned) launch vehicle >that the US now has. Not quite, Titan IIs are a medium lift space launch vehicle with an approximate 4,500 lbs to LEO capability. The Boeing Delta II with the lift package can put 12,000 lbs into LEO. The Delta 3, its bigger brother can put 18,000 lbs into LEO. At one time the Titan II was the only "flying" launch vehicle in our inventory. > > Have they been replaced with something > > else, or do we not have any ICBM's anymore? I know Subs (Boomers) have > > a lot of our missles now. > >Last time I checked US still had Minuteman III (1500 warheads on 500 to >750 missiles), MX (950 warheads on a few hundred missiles). I had thought >we had gone to a 1 warhead/missile policy since then, though. I believe this is dependent on the implementation of START III, Minuteman III is the bulk of the missile fleet. And are operated in part at Minot AFB (see ) All Minuteman III missiles contain a classic computer (the Guidance computer) as production of this missile stopped in 1978. --Chuck From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Apr 12 16:51:46 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: SMS 1000 up for grabs in UK In-Reply-To: from Kevan Heydon at "Apr 11, 2001 10:07:37 pm" Message-ID: <200104122151.f3CLpkH05962@bg-tc-ppp1617.monmouth.com> > > I have an SMS 1000 (A PDP 11/73) that I no longer want. It is populated > with a M8192-YB (11/73 cpu) card and a MSV11-R memory card made by > General Robotics Corp. There is an internal harddisk and both a 5 1/4" and > 8" floppy drives. It runs RT-11 and has a set of RT-11 manuals > including: 1A, 2, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3A, 3B, PDP11 FORTRAN 77 & RT-11 Mini > Ref. Manual. > > It really has to go so I will split up if someone wants only parts from > it. The manuals will end up in the paper recycling bins at work if nobody > wants them. > > -- > Kevan Nice web site... Darn... If shipping from the UK wasn't gonna cost a fortune... Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Thu Apr 12 18:51:12 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Collection list (Icon) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010412161625.00a65330@mail.wincom.net>; from foxvideo@wincom.net on Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 04:23:44PM -0400 References: <200104121252.IAA17534@wordstock.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010412161625.00a65330@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <20010412235112.A3934@localhostnl.demon.nl> You got me curious about the ICON too. So I did a little web surfing and came up with the following link to a school page handbook that describes ICONs in the computer lab. Who knows, maybe they still have them and are ready to get rid of them. If you get a bunch... hold one for me, please. :) -Bill http://ecdhs.haltonbe.on.ca/StudentPlanner/atop.shtml On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 04:23:44PM -0400, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > I have been trying unsuccessfully to track one down. (My high > school friends always say" Oh Yeh, we threw them out last month".) So far I > have only turned up a little of the documentation and part of a network hub. > Regards > > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com > From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 17:02:41 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:13 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: <3AD61EA6.7327636F@greenbelt.com> References: <3AD61EA6.7327636F@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >Not to mention old copies of 'Mosaic'! Ahhhh...the graphical browser that everybody else copied...used it for quite a while until finally switching to Netscape, as Netscape 2 was too crash-prone on the systems I was running at the time. I switched back and forth between Mosaic and Lynx, if I was in my dial-up shell. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Apr 12 17:22:36 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <00a701c0c35a$0fc64960$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On 12-Apr-2001 Mark Gregory wrote: > A consortium was put together that created proprietary hardware running > a Unix variant (years before Linux put Unix in the mainstream). In a > world rapidly being swamped by the enthusiasm and high hopes of the > "Home Computing" revolution, where Commodore, Apple and Atari were > king, the Icon was a costly failure. It limped along for a few years, > but once the government lost its initial enthusiasm for > computer-assisted learning, the plug was quickly pulled. Sounds like the Comterm here in Qu?bec. Same reasoning, only a bit later (during the early "IBM clone" period) and it had to be made in Qu?bec. Imagine an IBM-compatible in a case that looked like an Apple ][. It was barely compatible. Most software failed on it. Espcially educational games which sort of defeated the idea. > The last place I remember seeing an Icon was at > the Ontario Science Centre, where they were used to run programs like > Forest fire fighting simulations. I'd love to get one if I ever run > across one. Yow! I remember that game. I played it for hours as a youth. I guess this was the first case (out of many in later years) of "I'm going to play this computer game until I understand it and how to solve it". There were 2 outcomes : you water bombed the fire RIGHT AWAY and put it out or the fire escaped and spread and eventually consumed everything no matter what you did. Not very rewarding... -Philip From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 17:33:22 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <3AD61A47.E237E955@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco back in > the > late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class project in > college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of these days > > and see if I can add two numbers with it. > > Eric > Yep, they also sold a 9900-based system called the SS16, I think, as well as an S-100 9900 CPU, if I remember correctly what I've seen on the list. jbdigriz From vcf at siconic.com Thu Apr 12 16:23:21 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East Message-ID: It came to my attention that June 23-24 is the nationwide AARL event weekend so I have decided against holding the VCF on that weekend. I'm currently looking at the weekend of July 14-15 in Worcester or July 28-29 in Marlborough. Stay tuned :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 12 18:03:56 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: from "James B. DiGriz" at Apr 12, 2001 04:49:24 PM Message-ID: <200104122303.f3CN3uO11395@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Did the 990's go to HP with the Unix systems, or to Siemens or Fujitsu or > somebody else, or were they just abandoned? I don't know where they went, but my guess is they were just abandoned. > You wouldn't believe how hard it is tracking down 990 and > BS300,600,800 stuff, unless you fork out corporate prices at the couple of > remaining TI vendors/repair centers.. > > Believe me, any light you can shed that would help locate parts, > documentation, software, etc. will be greatly appreciated by more > than myself on this list. I will put some feelers out to some people I know still at TI and see what I can find out. > > There was a TI-developed 914 terminal emulator that > > was widely used in TI. Long after the 990 systems > > were gone the 914 terminal emulator was used to > > connect to the IBM mainframes. > > > > I have 3 911 VDT's and a 990/1 here (effectively a 915 since I'm missing a > disk subsystem) with my 990/10. Not familiar with the 914 or the 914 > emulator. I do know there was 924 emulator for the PC that was extant at > one time, but I haven't been able to get hold of a copy. The emulator was 914C/G. I don't have a copy of any emulators. I will see what I can find. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 17:53:14 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Chicago area sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I recently acquired a GRiD laptop (486 mono version) and it had the hard drive in it and on it were some (non-DOD) files that shouldn't have been left on the machine at all. They were classified but the IRS should empty their machines before a field agent turns them in. I called the office I bought it from, they checked records and had a person from the office that had it contact me. I told them what was on it and that I would, without fail, fully delete all info on the drive and that I wanted them to be aware that things are leaving their office into the general public. I was thanked by phone and a week later by mail with a check for $75 for my time and effort in cleaning it up and preventing a possible disaster. Wanna bet that's the first thing they look for when I get audited? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of brian roth > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:09 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Chicago area sites > > > I can understand the hard drive issue. I used to live in Kentucky > and I used to go to the sale at Ft. Knox every month. It > definitely was my favorite DRMO sale behind Columbus. Quite > often, the machines I received had "A LOT" of information on them > that although not classified, was certainly private. > > > It > > Brian. was fun rummaging around all the lots of equipment with > rounds of ordinance blasting in the distance. I'll never forget > on one of my best huals of equipment, I wedged a Penske rental > truck under one of the overpass's there. A couple of soldiers > help me let the air out of the tires and reinflate them when it > was clear. Its hilarious when I think of it now but when it happened...... > > > Brian. > > > Brian Roth > Network Services > First Niagara Bank > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:07:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3AD607FD.E5FABBF@internet1.net> Message-ID: Yeah they are intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) that were dangerous as hell and one even blew up ina silo in Little Rock AR sometime back due to sloppy maintainers dropping a large socket that shoul have been lanyarded. They used a hydrazine based fuel and when the fuel was exposed to oxgen (air) it became self explosive. They should all have been decommisioned exct the ones used by NASA for satellite launches. The Atlas's, Thors, etc are all gone unless they are in use as launch boosters. We still have ICBMs but they are all solid propellant now. Even the ones on subs (poseidons, etc)are ICBMs. As long as they can be launched way in to the upper atmosphere to be able to plummet down on the selected target somewhere across the earth, hence the intercontinetal and the ballistic. Cruise missiles don't fall into this category. They are launched (usually) from an aircraft and power themselves at a relatively aircraft-like flight to the target. They are also too short ranged to be intercontinetal, about 1500 miles for an ALCM. They can do a "ballistic" delivery in that near the target they can climb to their maximum ceiling and then cut power and glide like a rock into the selected target area. The two main land-based ICBMs left are the "Peacekeeper" (aka MX) and the Minuteman III. See these two pages if you're interest is there: http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/LG_118A_Peacekeeper.html http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/LGM_30_Minuteman_III.html I used to work tactical missiles and smart bombs, then went to cruise missiles the second half of my time in the AF. See http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/AGM_86B_C_Missiles.html I worked a lot with the Minuteman II and III stuff as well as the Peacekepper/MX as well. People in California near Vandenburg know of all t he launches they do out there. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:55 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > Titans are the big ICBM's right? Have they been replaced with something > else, or do we not have any ICBM's anymore? I know Subs (Boomers) have > a lot of our missles now. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > BTW a really neat spot south of Tucson is the ONLY Titan > missile site still > > intact, and its open for tours. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:17:25 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010412143248.01d1efc0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Production of the missile has ceased but updates are always being added to any of the weapons systems in any branch. I believe the computer has been updated (although still a basic shell of the original) at least 20 times since end of production. They still have sites other than Minot but many of the sites have been closed and imploded after being stripped. > All Minuteman III missiles contain a classic computer (the Guidance > computer) as production of this missile stopped in 1978. > > --Chuck > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:17:26 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010412114037.03732450@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I knew about the converted one, I've seen pictures of it from a friend of mine that visited the people but can't remember where it was located. I wouldn't have guessed that since Start that anyone could utilize a recently deactivated silo as part of the treaty inspections was onsite verification that the site(s) were made useless, usually by filling with concrete or by imploding with explosives. I went out on one in Wyoming in 92 as aprt of an inspection team and it was a site and sound when the charges went off. What really sucked was that they ground up full B-52s into scraps that weren't even active anymore in IL, they were used for static display and training. No engines, just pods. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chuck McManis > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:49 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > For the last 5 to 10 years you could _buy_ a silo from the Gov't > as long as > you promised not to reactivate it :-) There is an article in Popular > Science about a couple that converted one to living space. > > At a dinner I attended one person there claimed to have bought > one (can you > say crazy but lucky Silicon Valley type that got out of the market in > time?) and has been renovating it for living/storage space. There were > several different types, the vertical Titan II types and the horizontal > Minuteman types. (He has a vertical one I believe) It had quite a bit of > equipment left behind in it that wasn't considered worth either > destroying > or hauling out (much gear was carried in as pieces and assembled inside). > The most useful thing that he has salvaged was the Onan 50Kw power > generator that supplies power, the "coolest" thing is the "scram > lift" that > gets you down to the bottom really quickly. > > Now frankly he certainly had the means to pull this off but I > give his tale > only about 40% credibility rating as there is something of the story > telling aspect to it. He offered a tour when it was done so I'll > follow up > when I get his call to come visit ... > > --Chuck > > At 02:12 PM 4/12/2001 -0400, jeff wrote: > > I don't know if it was for Titan's, but I ran across a > webpage a > > couple of years ago that showed a photographic tour of a missle > silo that > > the photographer and his buddy had managed to gain access to. The silo > > had been under padlock and parts of it were flooded and/or > caved in, but > > there were still parts to equipment and such down there. It was pretty > > interesting. > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:25:32 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <3AD5CE74.ECAA9800@halcyon.com> Message-ID: The one that's the museum may be one of the old sites. I've seen the lights on sites myself and been in under "no lone zone" procedures and been knee deep in water where a sump failed. The lights were actually go-nogo for the lid. When the lid was unlatched for opening the light would go red as a stand clear wanring. On the newer sites I believe that no one needs to be warned as the launch tubes are satellited way off from the launch complex - one complex to about a dozen missiles. There's an access to the launch tube for maintenance but not like the Titan setup. The Titan launch complex had a control center, barracks, etc next to each launch tube, one crew/complex for each missile. The ones active now are one crew, many remote missiles. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David C. Jenner > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:49 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > Standing on the top of Kitt Peak (50 miles SW of Tucson) at night > during the 60's and 70's you could see a dozen or so Titan sites on > the surrounding desert floor. They had a couple of green lights. > If you saw these lights turn red, you knew it was time to duck. > The road to Kitt Peak passed within a few hundred feet of one site. > Maybe this is the "museum"? > > Dave > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like > > research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but > > none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one > you speak of. > > Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do > they actually > > have a Titan in it? > > > > I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the > years while > > still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 12 18:32:56 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <3AD50F18.1407.51DFA0@localhost> Message-ID: <01be01c0c3a8$e7f21d20$79731fd1@default> Thanks for the build up and like Sellam I hope to do a count later this year. I have to move 11 (full) storage units from MN (a mix of 10x10's, 10x15's, & 10x20's) to Texas over the summer after I find a bigger warehouse there. The current 1800 sq ft one I have there is full and overflowing. Last time I was there I had to leave items at the house there (upset the wife a little) as I could not put anything else in the place. I hope that about 6 or 7 trips in a 26' Uhaul truck will get everything down there, the cost is going to be very high to move all this stuff. If anyone has a BIG truck I can use in exchange for some hardware let me know. I will start the first trip on June 2nd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:12 AM Subject: Re: Collection list (just for phun) > This came up on the list a couple of springs ago. It should be in the archives. > My collection has about doubled since then but I haven't done an inventory > update for some time. IIRC about 30 or so collection lists were posted. Quite > interesting to see the collecting bias' of the different list members. > The definitive list would have to be John Keyes or Sellams collections. > > larry > > > > In a message dated 01-04-10 21:49:17 EDT, you write: > > > > << Quoting THETechnoid@home.com: > > > I'd like to see some of your lists. I bet some of you would be > > > hard pressedd to list your whole collection in a message that the > > > list server would accept (too large). >> > > > > blech, I'm traveling and can't think of what I all have. check my list at: > > > > www.nothingtodo.org/classiccmp/ccidxa2z.htm > > > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:33:39 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <200104122120.OAA07353@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: At one time they made the biggest mess of an Arkansas landscape of any missile on a given day (grin). I do belive though that they've been passed up on the biggest by newer Deltas and others, not sure of specs though. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric J. Korpela > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 4:20 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > > Titans are the big ICBM's right? > > Big enough that they evolved into the biggest (unmanned) launch vehicle > that the US now has. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:33:40 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Tampa Area Sites In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010412105511.00ae8650@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: You can start looking at the DRMO office on MacDill AFB, right near Tampa. If their number isn't in the book look for MacDill's base info line and asked for DRMO or "salavage office". Call and find out if you can get on their list for auction info. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gene Ehrich > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:56 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Tampa Area Sites > > > At 08:20 AM 4/12/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on > >good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies. > > What about the Tampa Bay area. > > Any good locations around here? > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:33:41 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's plenty of college excess I'm sure. Just downtown you have Northwestern, UICC, Loop, etc. They usually have a surplus sale every so often or channels to find out where it all goes. The City of Chicago itself is full of more waste than many other governments as when ever anyone's relative has something to sell, the one in office helps the contract along and the old goes to charity, dumps, scrappers, open sales by the pallet, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jason McBrien > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:58 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sites > > > Must be UIUC stuff, the NCSA is HQ'd around there somewhere.. > Mmmm.. vintage > supercomputers.... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russ Blakeman" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:19 AM > Subject: RE: Chicago Area Sites > > > > The bad thing is with all that industry and potential for lots > of excess, > > the scrappers get a lot of it direct and strip it for various > reclaimables. > > > > > > Which brings up a though for people further south in IL...There is a > > scrapper in Urbana IL that does much the same and I've seen PDP's, IBM > 6262 > > printers, Univac remotes and all sorts of heavy items go through there > back > > when I lived there up until 93. I used to go parts searching > for my truck > > and didn't really have the room or need for classics then but > anyone that > is > > in the area of C-U and want to explore a possible venue should > go to I-74 > at > > Lincoln and go north on Lincoln just across the road from the > UPS center. > I > > forget the name of the yard but they charge by the pound rather than by > what > > they think they can get for it. If you check into what they have in the > big > > building up front you migth find interesting stuff on a regular basis. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jason McBrien > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: Chicago Area Sites > > > > > > > > > There's American Science and Surplus which is out on the outskirts of > > > Chicago on Milwaukee(sp?), they also have a few branches scattered > around > > > the suburbs. I'm vacationing in Chicago for a few days at the > end of the > > > month and would like to know any other places that have anything as > well. > > > You'd think there'd be tons of surplus computer places around > that area, > > > what with Argonne, FermiLab, Newark Electronics, and Motorola > all living > > > near. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bob Brown" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:20 AM > > > Subject: Chicago Area Sites > > > > > > > > > > I have still never seen anyone on the list post any info on > > > > good places in the Chicago area to find computer goodies.... > > > > > > > > Either there aren't many people on the list familier with this area, > or > > > > there aren't any good places in this area (hard to believe > due to the > > > > population), or the people who know are keeping it to themselves... > > > > > > > > I've lived here all my life and I still don't know if a good surplus > > > > computer store around here...anyone with any ideas? > > > > > > > > thanks. > > > > > > > > -Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 18:35:21 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <01Apr12.142037edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: If it's the one I'm thinking of it's an old Atlas (pre Titan) silo up near Plattsburgh New York. If it is the same one it's since been blasted due to the dangerous conditions of both being in it and the possibility of cave-in above. It should have been near the town of Saranac. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Arizona trip > > > I don't know if it was for Titan's, but I ran across a webpage a > couple of years ago that showed a photographic tour of a missle silo > that the photographer and his buddy had managed to gain access to. The > silo had been under padlock and parts of it were flooded and/or caved > in, but there were still parts to equipment and such down there. It was > pretty interesting. > > Jeff > > On Thursday, April 12, 2001, at 10:47 AM, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like > > research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but > > none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you speak > > of. > > Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do they > > actually > > have a Titan in it? > > > > I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the years > > while > > still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > > From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 18:37:16 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: Message-ID: <004101c0c3aa$cb5efaf0$0100a8c0@jack> > off-topic thread, of which probably only Americans and Chinese are > interested in, off a mailing list about classic computers? > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Easy on your hemorhoids, Ismail! On Easter Sunday, April 15th, the MIT opens its first 2001 Fleamarket, a treasure trove of classic computers and communications equipment. It is loaded with the best of the crop of MIT students from Chiba and americans who wallow in junk. Who knows, maybe even some EP3 stuff will show up there? Not so off topic at all, methinks. Fred/K1HB From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 19:20:21 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >If it's the one I'm thinking of it's an old Atlas (pre Titan) silo up near >Plattsburgh New York. If it is the same one it's since been blasted due to >the dangerous conditions of both being in it and the possibility of cave-in >above. It should have been near the town of Saranac. I actually found the website again! The URL was still in the bookmarks on my laptop (which NEVER gets cleaned off). Sometimes I'm thankful for being such a packrat and being able to go back and find 4 year old emails . Anyway, he's moved the site but it's still active at: http://triggur.org/silo/ He doesn't give any clear indicators as to where it's located, but here's the statistics he does list: Missile type: Titan I Missile count: 3 Missile speed: 18,000 MPH Missile burns: 1 ton fuel/sec Silo doors: 2x116 tons Fuel storage: 26,000 gals/silo LOX Active during: 1963-1965 Feet of tunnel: 2000 Feet of wire: 3 million Miles of re-bar: 2400 Tons of concrete: 405,000 Tons of structural steel: 6,900 yards^3 of dirt displaced: 800,000 Water tanks: 2x30,000 gallons Diesel tanks: 2x67,000 gallons Generators: 4x1 megawatt Capacity: 150 people/30 days Total depth: 165 feet All in all, I thought it was pretty interesting. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 19:23:06 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: COM5025 (was Re: Heath/Zenith stuff) References: <20010412204312.18977.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c0c3af$eb2f1b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> IF you have a date code, I can check the databooks I have. I've never seen a 48-pin version of this part. It would be odd, indeed, if it lined up with the AMD 7990. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: COM5025 (was Re: Heath/Zenith stuff) > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Incidentally, does anyone have a pinout for the 48 pin version of the > > COM5025? Yes, it seems to have existed, and the pinout is somewhat > > similar to the 7990 ethernet chip (!), to the extent that I have a > > bridge/router with 3 48 pin sockets that can take either 7990s or 5025s > > (there is one jumper to move for each socket, depending on what chip > > you've fitted). If you put a 7990 in the socket, you link a header > > alongside it to an little PCB with the AUI interface stuff on it. If you > > have the 5025, you connect the header to a differnt board with RS232-like > > buffers on it. But things like the data pins, etc, must be in the same > > places on both chips. > > Wow! That's strange. Nope... I have tubes and tubes of 40-pin COM5025 > chips, but never even heard of a 48-pin version. The bus-side should be > easy to divine, but I have no idea about the serial side. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Apr 12 19:01:40 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: Eric Dittman's message of "Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:03:56 -0500 (CDT)" References: <200104122303.f3CN3uO11395@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200104130001.f3D01eN54669@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Eric Dittman wrote: > > Did the 990's go to HP with the Unix systems, or to Siemens or Fujitsu or > > somebody else, or were they just abandoned? > > I don't know where they went, but my guess is they were just > abandoned. Pretty much so. They did not go to HP with the S1500. Al Kossow has what info he has been able to turn up on his Minicomputer Orphanage web page: . -Frank McConnell From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 12 19:28:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <003c01c0c3b0$a0f2c8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What this really says is that in order to connect two devices, you have to know precisely what you're doing. That's hard, nowadays, when the mfg's documents are printed in large type on a business card. Things have gone downhill. Manufacturers don't provide documentation because nobody reads it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 12:50 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > > > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > > > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > > > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > > > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > > > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. > > > > Oh, but then you lose a lot of fun. The Amiga DB25 serial port features > > among others audio output on some pins. =) > > So presumably using an all-pins-wired cable to link it to some true RS232 > device that happens to implement all the pins is a good way to let magic > smoke out... > > I've actually seen a device that has a single DB25 with the stnadard set > of RS232 signals on the stnadard pins (1-8 and 20 I think), and a > TTL-level Centronics-like parallel port on the other pins. Now that is a > device that you certainly don't connect to just any RS232 port. > > > > > > And Apple used the 8 pin mini-DIN on the Mac+ and later because there > > > wasn't room for the DE9 connector used on the earler Macs. Hardware > > > hackers have been complaining ever since -- those mini-DINs are about the > > > worst connectors in the world to wire! > > > > Try a DIN-13 for size. > > I have done (and a DIN14, which is actually easier to wire than the > DIN13). I still think the mini DIN 9 is the worst to do (it was used on the > mouse port of the Archimedes, for instance), and the mini DIN 8 is only > slightly better than the 9 (and a lot worse than the DIN 13 and DIN 14). > > -tony > > From musicman38 at mindspring.com Thu Apr 12 19:36:39 2001 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Musicman38) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <200104121611.LAA55585@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <001b01c0c3b1$cfe20de0$9aa9b23f@home> Here's a partial list of my collection. I have many more just not cataloged yet.. My Favorite is the Original Commodore Pet 8K, and Original Osborne 01 Tan case.. All my computers are working with the exception of 2 or 3.. Phil... Apple 2C Mint Monitor, Prtr,Manuals Apple 2GS Mint Prtr,Monitor,Drive Apple II Mint Assorted cards Apple IIe Mint 80 col card Apple IIe Mint DuoDisk,SCSI,Manuals Apple Iie Platinum good Asst Cards Apple II-plus dead Assorted Cards Atari XE Mint Kybrd, lots games Atari 400 Mint Many Extras + Carts Columbia XT Portable Mint 10 Meg Hard Drive Columbia XT Portable Dead Dual Floppy drives Columbia XT Portable Good Dual Floppy Columbia XT Portable Good 20 Mag HD Corona Portable XT VGood Dual Floppy Commodore 128 Mint Mint, Floppy, Printer Commodore 128 Good Missing 2 keys works Commodore 128 Ukwn Not Tested Commodore 16 Mint Box,Cassette,Manuals Commodore 16 Mint Box, Manuals Commodore 64 mint Box,Manuals Commodore 64 Mint Box,Manuals Commodore 64SX Exec Mint Runs great Commodore 64SX Dead Very Clean Commodore 8032 vgood 32K Ram Commodore Amiga 500 Mint Stock Commodore C128D Mint W/Kybd Commodore C128D Dead W/Kybd Commodore Pet Good Commodore Plus/4 Mint Box, Manuals Commodore Plus/4 Vgood Box, Manuals Commodore Plus/4 Mint In Box w/Manual Commodore Vic-20 M1 Mint Box, Manuals Commodore Vic-20 M2 Mint Box, Manuals Compaq Portable XT mint Dual Floppy Compaq Portable XT Mint Dual Floppy Compaq Portable XT Good 10 MB Hard Drive Compaq Portable XT Plus Dead 10 MB Hard Drive Compaq Portable II 286 Mint 20 MB Hard Drive Compaq Portable II 286 Mint 20 MB HD & Modem Franklin Ace 1200 Mint Dual Drive, Manuals IBM PC-Junior Mint Monitor, Expanded IBM PC-Junior Mint Monitor IBM PC-Junior Ukwn IBM PC-Junior Ukwn IBM Portable XT 5155 VGood Hard Drive, Floppy IBM PC-XT VGood Dual Floppy,10MB HD IBM PC-XT Mint Color,HD,20MB Kaypro 1 Vgood Works Perfectly Kaypro 1 Vgood Manuals Software Kaypro 10 Good Bad Hard Drive Kaypro 10 Vgood Works Fine Kaypro 10 Mint Perfect all Books/Sftwre Kaypro 16 Vgood Work Fine Kaypro 16-F Mint Dual Floppy - Rare Kaypro 2 Vgood Manuals, SOftware Kaypro 2X Good Mint CP/M & Manuals Kaypro 4-84 Mint Carrying Case Kaypro II Mint Manuals, Carry Case Kaypro II Good Works OK Laser 128 Vgood Manual Mattel Aquarius Mint Manuals, Cassette Mattel Aquarius Good Manuals Mattel Aquarius Mint Boxed w/All Periferals Osborne 01-A Mint White Screen Osborne 01-A Mint Green screen Osborne 01-A Dead Tech Manuals Osborne 01 Vgood Complete w/Manuals Osborne Executive Mint Manuals, Software Osborne Executive Poor Manuals, Software Radio Shack CoCo 1 Good 4K,Gray,Chicklet keys Radio Shack CoCo 1 Mint 16K, Manuals Radio Shack CoCo 1 Good 16K Ram Radio Shack CoCo 2 Mint 32K Ram, manuals Radio Shack CoCo 2 Good 32K Ram Radio Shack CoCo 2 Mint 64K Ram, Newer Kybd Radio Shack CoCo 3 Mint 64K RAM Radio Shack MC-10 Mint Box, Manuals,PS Radio Shack MC-10 Mint PS Radio Shack Model 1 Dead Radio Shack Model 1 Mint Level II Basic 16K RAM Radio Shack Model 100 Vgood Manual Radio Shack Model 102 Vgood Radio Shack Model 4 Good Radio Shack Model 4P Mint Manuals, Software Radio Shack Model 4P Good Tandy 1200FD Vgood Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Silver/Blk Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Beige/Tan Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Mint in Box, Manual Texas Instruments TI99 Mint Silver/Blk Texas Instruments TI99 Mint Box,Manuals Beige Texas Instruments TI99/4A Good Beige/Tan TI-Expansion good Expansion Box Loaded TI-Expansion & Manuals Mint Manuals, Everything Loaded Timex 1000 poor Works Zenith Z170 Mint Manual, Very Clean Mac SE/30 Mint Clean, HD, SCSI Mac Plus Vgood Clean Mac Plus Vgood Clean Mac II LC Vgood Kybds Mac SE Vgood Clean Mac Laptop Bad Clean Mac 512 Vgood Clean Mac Classic II Mint Clean, SCSI HD From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 12 19:41:08 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010412143248.01d1efc0@208.226.86.10> from Chuck McManis at "Apr 12, 2001 02:48:28 pm" Message-ID: <200104130041.RAA11216@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > At 02:20 PM 4/12/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > > Titans are the big ICBM's right? > > > >Big enough that they evolved into the biggest (unmanned) launch vehicle > >that the US now has. > > Not quite, Titan IIs are a medium lift space launch vehicle with an > approximate 4,500 lbs to LEO capability. The Boeing Delta II with the lift > package can put 12,000 lbs into LEO. The Delta 3, its bigger brother can > put 18,000 lbs into LEO. > > At one time the Titan II was the only "flying" launch vehicle in our inventory. I was counting the Titan IV as what it evolved into. It really is different enough that it is a Titan in name only. It can put 47,800 lb into LEU. I still see enough of Thor in Delta III that I would consider it a decendent of the Thor IRBM. I don't know what Delta II uses for guidance these days, but in 92 they used what I would consider a classic computer. Eric From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Apr 12 19:41:21 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Message for Bruce Lane In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010412174121.009d3ca0@192.168.42.129> At 09:47 12-04-2001 -0400, John Lawson wrote: > Well, Bruce, I've tried to reply privately to your Tucson message from >my private and office accounts... both bounce with 'host unknown' errmsgs. Ok. I have a backup address. wd6eos@hamsnet.net > I can understand wishing to guard against Colds and Flu, but wearing a >spacesuit 24/7 to accomplish that is a little... dare I use the word... >obsessive? John, I promise I'm not wearing a "spacesuit." I have no idea what's happening. You are the ONLY one to have this problem. Everyone else that's not listed on the RBL or RSS lists has had ZERO problems getting mail to me. I'm certain my mailserver's configuration is correct. I don't know what else to tell you. Please use the backup address. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 12 19:55:31 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: My Collection (Musicman38) References: <200104121611.LAA55585@opal.tseinc.com> <001b01c0c3b1$cfe20de0$9aa9b23f@home> Message-ID: <15062.20099.822898.271186@phaduka.neurotica.com> Very impressive level of completeness, here. Bravo! -Dave On April 12, Musicman38 wrote: > Here's a partial list of my collection. > I have many more just not cataloged yet.. > My Favorite is the Original Commodore Pet 8K, > and Original Osborne 01 Tan case.. > All my computers are working with the exception of 2 or 3.. > Phil... > > Apple 2C Mint Monitor, Prtr,Manuals > Apple 2GS Mint Prtr,Monitor,Drive > Apple II Mint Assorted cards > Apple IIe Mint 80 col card > Apple IIe Mint DuoDisk,SCSI,Manuals > Apple Iie Platinum good Asst Cards > Apple II-plus dead Assorted Cards > Atari XE Mint Kybrd, lots games > Atari 400 Mint Many Extras + Carts > Columbia XT Portable Mint 10 Meg Hard Drive > Columbia XT Portable Dead Dual Floppy drives > Columbia XT Portable Good Dual Floppy > Columbia XT Portable Good 20 Mag HD > Corona Portable XT VGood Dual Floppy > Commodore 128 Mint Mint, Floppy, Printer > Commodore 128 Good Missing 2 keys works > Commodore 128 Ukwn Not Tested > Commodore 16 Mint Box,Cassette,Manuals > Commodore 16 Mint Box, Manuals > Commodore 64 mint Box,Manuals > Commodore 64 Mint Box,Manuals > Commodore 64SX Exec Mint Runs great > Commodore 64SX Dead Very Clean > Commodore 8032 vgood 32K Ram > Commodore Amiga 500 Mint Stock > Commodore C128D Mint W/Kybd > Commodore C128D Dead W/Kybd > Commodore Pet Good > Commodore Plus/4 Mint Box, Manuals > Commodore Plus/4 Vgood Box, Manuals > Commodore Plus/4 Mint In Box w/Manual > Commodore Vic-20 M1 Mint Box, Manuals > Commodore Vic-20 M2 Mint Box, Manuals > Compaq Portable XT mint Dual Floppy > Compaq Portable XT Mint Dual Floppy > Compaq Portable XT Good 10 MB Hard Drive > Compaq Portable XT Plus Dead 10 MB Hard Drive > Compaq Portable II 286 Mint 20 MB Hard Drive > Compaq Portable II 286 Mint 20 MB HD & Modem > Franklin Ace 1200 Mint Dual Drive, Manuals > IBM PC-Junior Mint Monitor, Expanded > IBM PC-Junior Mint Monitor > IBM PC-Junior Ukwn > IBM PC-Junior Ukwn > IBM Portable XT 5155 VGood Hard Drive, Floppy > IBM PC-XT VGood Dual Floppy,10MB HD > IBM PC-XT Mint Color,HD,20MB > Kaypro 1 Vgood Works Perfectly > Kaypro 1 Vgood Manuals Software > Kaypro 10 Good Bad Hard Drive > Kaypro 10 Vgood Works Fine > Kaypro 10 Mint Perfect all Books/Sftwre > Kaypro 16 Vgood Work Fine > Kaypro 16-F Mint Dual Floppy - Rare > Kaypro 2 Vgood Manuals, SOftware > Kaypro 2X Good Mint CP/M & Manuals > Kaypro 4-84 Mint Carrying Case > Kaypro II Mint Manuals, Carry Case > Kaypro II Good Works OK > Laser 128 Vgood Manual > Mattel Aquarius Mint Manuals, Cassette > Mattel Aquarius Good Manuals > Mattel Aquarius Mint Boxed w/All Periferals > Osborne 01-A Mint White Screen > Osborne 01-A Mint Green screen > Osborne 01-A Dead Tech Manuals > Osborne 01 Vgood Complete w/Manuals > Osborne Executive Mint Manuals, Software > Osborne Executive Poor Manuals, Software > Radio Shack CoCo 1 Good 4K,Gray,Chicklet keys > Radio Shack CoCo 1 Mint 16K, Manuals > Radio Shack CoCo 1 Good 16K Ram > Radio Shack CoCo 2 Mint 32K Ram, manuals > Radio Shack CoCo 2 Good 32K Ram > Radio Shack CoCo 2 Mint 64K Ram, Newer Kybd > Radio Shack CoCo 3 Mint 64K RAM > Radio Shack MC-10 Mint Box, Manuals,PS > Radio Shack MC-10 Mint PS > Radio Shack Model 1 Dead > Radio Shack Model 1 Mint Level II Basic 16K RAM > Radio Shack Model 100 Vgood Manual > Radio Shack Model 102 Vgood > Radio Shack Model 4 Good > Radio Shack Model 4P Mint Manuals, Software > Radio Shack Model 4P Good > Tandy 1200FD Vgood > Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Silver/Blk > Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Beige/Tan > Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Mint in Box, Manual > Texas Instruments TI99 Mint Silver/Blk > Texas Instruments TI99 Mint Box,Manuals Beige > Texas Instruments TI99/4A Good Beige/Tan > TI-Expansion good Expansion Box Loaded > TI-Expansion & Manuals Mint Manuals, Everything Loaded > Timex 1000 poor Works > Zenith Z170 Mint Manual, Very Clean > Mac SE/30 Mint Clean, HD, SCSI > Mac Plus Vgood Clean > Mac Plus Vgood Clean > Mac II LC Vgood Kybds > Mac SE Vgood Clean > Mac Laptop Bad Clean > Mac 512 Vgood Clean > Mac Classic II Mint Clean, SCSI HD > From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 12 20:10:34 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites In-Reply-To: <3AD61EA6.7327636F@greenbelt.com> from Eric Chomko at "Apr 12, 2001 05:31:18 pm" Message-ID: <200104130110.SAA11787@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Jason McBrien wrote: > > > Must be UIUC stuff, the NCSA is HQ'd around there somewhere.. Mmmm.. vintage > > supercomputers.... > > > > > > Not to mention old copies of 'Mosaic'! > I've noticed that Mosaic doesn't seem to work anymore. Every page request seems to return "400 Bad Request: Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand. The number of request header fields exceeds this server's limit." I'm disappointed. Eric From Demon02554 at aol.com Thu Apr 12 20:21:36 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: DC area sites Message-ID: <6a.d10b91f.2807aea0@aol.com> anyone know any places where I could find stuff in the suburbs southwest of DC (Fairfax County) whether it be through dumpster diving or second hand stores thanks, Robert Cobbins From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 20:26:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <018001c0c3b9$8ee78ec0$43799a8d@ajp166> From: James B. DiGriz >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > >> > >> >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco back in >> the >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class project in >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of these days I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 20:24:34 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East Message-ID: <017f01c0c3b9$8e6a4870$43799a8d@ajp166> From: Vintage Computer Festival > >It came to my attention that June 23-24 is the nationwide AARL event >weekend so I have decided against holding the VCF on that weekend. I'm >currently looking at the weekend of July 14-15 in Worcester or July 28-29 >in Marlborough. I'd push myself for Marlborough as its real close, likely the cost for the hall is much cheaper too. Allison From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 20:39:31 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? In-Reply-To: <200104122303.f3CN3uO11395@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > I will put some feelers out to some people I know still at TI > and see what I can find out. Great, Eric. Thanks. I seem to be becoming rapidly indebted to a lot of people. Hopefully I can be of assistance to someone else along the way. jbdigriz From owad at applefritter.com Thu Apr 12 21:02:07 2001 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010413020207.11184@mail.lafayette.edu> >Hmmm, I just recently came across one for the first time (not for sale, it >was part of a collection I was appraising). How many games were actually >made for this thing? I think at least 40 titles shipped for it in Japan. Just about any Macintosh application could run on the Pippin if placed on a boot CD with the appropriate system software. >Did it ever make it to market? If not, why? Yes. Quite a few were sold in Japan. It was on the U.S. market for hardly any time at all before Apple killed it. The version marketed in Japan was platinum and called the "Bandai Pippin Atmark". The U.S. version was black and labeled "Bandai Pippin @World". The American version (and I presume the Japanese, too) came with a subscription to Bandai's online service. Of course, that doesn't work any more. The Pippin was a Macintosh PowerPC with 4 MB RAM. Ever try running a Power Mac with 4 MB RAM? It's got SCSI, though. The Playstation and WebTV can't boast that! Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 21:14:13 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:14 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've seen this before probaably 5 yrs ago and totally forgot about it - thanks for the link. I doubt it's in NY - this is a Titan I as they stated and I've been in a closed Atlas in NY and an active Titan II site(just before closure, helped crate and ship). I hadn't seen one with 3 missiles tied to it either. Much of it is old school too - the "buddy system" became "No Lone Zone-Two Man Policy" which became "Ywo Person Policy" during the politically correct period of the early 90's. The Buddy System used to cover both nuclear surety and personal safety then as you couldn't screw up the missile or system if you had someone with you trained to watch - and if you got hurt you were already with someone to call for help. Matter of fact everyone was under the Human Reliability Program too - get sick or have a money problem? You come to us instead of taking care of it yourself. LOX is an acronym for Liquid OXygen, the oxidizer for the liquid hydrazine fuel that was stored in the big black tank. Why it wreaked of either kero or fuel oil is probably like washing a gas tank with kerosene before you weld or grind on it - it coats remaining vapors/fuels and makes them to heavy for ignition. 165 person capacity and all of them MALE, including security, communications, mess, medical, etc. How'd you like to be in that stateside submarine for a couple months sailor? It still all looks like the Chicago subway system to me though, even after 20 yrs around all of that. A shame what people did to it though and none of them left any real graffiti to lend itself to where the site is at. Looking at the terrain it could be Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Michigan, the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, etc. There's nothing there to give a clue and during the Kennedy cold war freakout they put silos and missiles just about anywhere. Hell for all we know it could be a flat place in Mississippi somewhere. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:20 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Arizona trip > > > >If it's the one I'm thinking of it's an old Atlas (pre Titan) > silo up near > >Plattsburgh New York. If it is the same one it's since been > blasted due to > >the dangerous conditions of both being in it and the possibility > of cave-in > >above. It should have been near the town of Saranac. > > I actually found the website again! The URL was still in the > bookmarks on my laptop (which NEVER gets cleaned off). Sometimes I'm > thankful for being such a packrat and being able to go back and find > 4 year old emails . Anyway, he's moved the site but it's still > active at: > > http://triggur.org/silo/ > > He doesn't give any clear indicators as to where it's > located, but here's the statistics he does list: > > Missile type: Titan I > Missile count: 3 > Missile speed: 18,000 MPH > Missile burns: 1 ton fuel/sec > Silo doors: 2x116 tons > Fuel storage: 26,000 gals/silo LOX > Active during: 1963-1965 > Feet of tunnel: 2000 > Feet of wire: 3 million > Miles of re-bar: 2400 > Tons of concrete: 405,000 > Tons of structural steel: 6,900 > yards^3 of dirt displaced: 800,000 > Water tanks: 2x30,000 gallons > Diesel tanks: 2x67,000 gallons > Generators: 4x1 megawatt > Capacity: 150 people/30 days > Total depth: 165 feet > > All in all, I thought it was pretty interesting. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 12 21:25:00 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. References: <20010408200348.UKOS1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <026a01c0c3c0$f12f25f0$0100a8c0@jack> > Want some wild speculation? How about the fighter pilot was INSTRUCTED to > crash into the spy plane to force it to land on chinese soil. not that drastic, the chinese are not that suicidal the hotdogging and thumping had one and only one purpose: nudge NUDGE the ep3 that flew on the intl lines edge into chinese airspace ... lift it under its left wing! - and then have the follow-plane down it for not immediately answering commands to land at hainan airport for penetrating restricted chinese airspace over a secret airbase - as secret as the satellite photo shows - and creating an incident of american agression on holy chinese territory......shades of kal 007.....havent the us public gotten enough of that kind of crap? net result: wang wei pressed the button to eject.....when he hit the underwing with his rudder...and he ejected right into engine #2....instant waring blender....a propeller of 16ft dia and 27000rpm....ugh....wang wei pressed the wong button! fred From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 12 21:58:27 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20010412071454.009bd450@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: >There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like >research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but >none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you speak of. >Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do they actually >have a Titan in it? > >I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the years while >still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. The Titan in the silo was actually used in a Star Trek movie, and is most impressive up close. It is amazing, and for me being born in 1956, it made the cold war much more real and serious. The restoration was meticulous, with not just the main bits, but all the normal clutter of manuals etc. on bookshelves. The feeling going in is very much "time warp". Below are some links. http://pimaair.org/titan_01.htm http://world.std.com/~bor/arizona/arizona.htm The PIMA air museum is also not far from Tucson, but I didn't bother to go since I live so close to the main PIMA site in Chino, Cal. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 12 22:08:56 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <018001c0c3b9$8ee78ec0$43799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco > back in > >> the > >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class > project in > >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of > these days > > > I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. > > Allison > Do you happen to have a picture of it online anywhere, Allison? jbdigriz From dkuhn at acsworld.net Thu Apr 12 22:13:14 2001 From: dkuhn at acsworld.net (David L Kuhn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific PEEK (65) Journals Message-ID: <000001c0c3c7$ddcece00$abbc040c@compaq> Cleaning out more of my basement and old computer collection. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1229772880 Does anyone here think I could get anything for a Superboard 2 in a C1P Case with memory expansion/floppy controller board? It is escentially a C1P. If so, I could clean it up a bit and put it on ebay. If not, it will evenutally just get pitched. It is a piece of my history, but there has to come a point where I must let go. Thanks Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/d91f7c24/attachment.html From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 22:41:19 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Chicago area sites References: Message-ID: <3AD6755F.F3488C76@greenbelt.com> Russ Blakeman wrote: > I recently acquired a GRiD laptop (486 mono version) and it had the hard > drive in it and on it were some (non-DOD) files that shouldn't have been > left on the machine at all. They were classified but the IRS should empty > their machines before a field agent turns them in. I called the office I > bought it from, they checked records and had a person from the office that > had it contact me. I told them what was on it and that I would, without > fail, fully delete all info on the drive and that I wanted them to be aware > that things are leaving their office into the general public. I was thanked > by phone and a week later by mail with a check for $75 for my time and > effort in cleaning it up and preventing a possible disaster. Wanna bet > that's the first thing they look for when I get audited? I doubt it. With all the bookmakers and other petty crooks your one time $75 payment is some potatoes compared to what they are really after. Eric From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 12 18:49:23 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: <200104121356.GAA12704@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Apr 12, 1 02:03:32 am" Message-ID: <20010413034809.FPHL27669.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: Mac IIci machines available at CPB > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:56:17 -0700 (PDT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I have to agree with Mike, and not merely because I'm a satisfied customer > of his :-) you can do a lot better on a IIci, even with a goodly loaded-out > amount of RAM. I bought a bare case for $1 and a IIsi for free, scavenged > the IIsi's 8MB of RAM and pulled another 4MB out of another dead system, > took the IIsi's case and FD, put them in the IIci, and voila. You don't get > deals better than this :-) but I've seen IIcis at Santee go for around $8 > or so with maybe 8MB RAM, 40 or 80MB HD, FD, etc., and upgrading them is dirt > cheap. Many still had the 32K cache cards installed. I have LC III ('030 25MHz, cachless), knew it's performance differences except I have no idea about IIci. Most of things is very similar except for FPU and slots, cache support but how efficient IIci go? What areas IIci is better at, video? Overall performance? Mind you, I know IIci specs but feel of this machine in use I don't know. Thanks and cheers, Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 22:50:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now that website with the Tucson Titan II site is more of what I've seen before, when we wer stripping and crating the sites at Little Rock. Even many of the panels are familiar looking, as is the "No Lone Zone - Two Man Policy Mandatory" which has been changed to "two person policy" since the late 80's/early 90's...oh well it at least brings back a sense of reality anyway. Does working around nukes so long have anything to do with why my wife keeps thinking there's a nightlight on when I come to bed? (grin) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:58 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Arizona trip > > > >There are other Titan silos but they've been converted to things like > >research labs, homes, observatories, etc scattered throughout the US but > >none are an actual "missile site" anymore other than the one you > speak of. > >Is this site a government museum, or a privately run one? Do > they actually > >have a Titan in it? > > > >I've been all over the boneyard at Davis-Monthan throughout the > years while > >still active AF but didn't know there was a Titan site anywhere around. > > The Titan in the silo was actually used in a Star Trek movie, and is most > impressive up close. > > It is amazing, and for me being born in 1956, it made the cold war much > more real and serious. The restoration was meticulous, with not just the > main bits, but all the normal clutter of manuals etc. on bookshelves. The > feeling going in is very much "time warp". Below are some links. > > http://pimaair.org/titan_01.htm > http://world.std.com/~bor/arizona/arizona.htm > > The PIMA air museum is also not far from Tucson, but I didn't bother to go > since I live so close to the main PIMA site in Chino, Cal. > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 22:54:15 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <200104121611.LAA55585@opal.tseinc.com> <001b01c0c3b1$cfe20de0$9aa9b23f@home> <15062.20099.822898.271186@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD67866.41B05472@greenbelt.com> Yes, I must say I agree. And all but 2 or 3 working is REALLY impressive. I did have a chanve to get a Laser 128 (Apple II clone) today, w/monitor, but no PS. I passed on it. I did get another CoCo II and a Mattel Intellivision (always wanted one). I got a Commodore Colt a couple of months ago. Any one ever heard of that? Oh yes, I got 'Super Pong' from Atari today as well. Eric Dave McGuire wrote: > Very impressive level of completeness, here. Bravo! > > -Dave > > On April 12, Musicman38 wrote: > > Here's a partial list of my collection. > > I have many more just not cataloged yet.. > > My Favorite is the Original Commodore Pet 8K, > > and Original Osborne 01 Tan case.. > > All my computers are working with the exception of 2 or 3.. > > Phil... > > > > Apple 2C Mint Monitor, Prtr,Manuals > > Apple 2GS Mint Prtr,Monitor,Drive > > Apple II Mint Assorted cards > > Apple IIe Mint 80 col card > > Apple IIe Mint DuoDisk,SCSI,Manuals > > Apple Iie Platinum good Asst Cards > > Apple II-plus dead Assorted Cards > > Atari XE Mint Kybrd, lots games > > Atari 400 Mint Many Extras + Carts > > Columbia XT Portable Mint 10 Meg Hard Drive > > Columbia XT Portable Dead Dual Floppy drives > > Columbia XT Portable Good Dual Floppy > > Columbia XT Portable Good 20 Mag HD > > Corona Portable XT VGood Dual Floppy > > Commodore 128 Mint Mint, Floppy, Printer > > Commodore 128 Good Missing 2 keys works > > Commodore 128 Ukwn Not Tested > > Commodore 16 Mint Box,Cassette,Manuals > > Commodore 16 Mint Box, Manuals > > Commodore 64 mint Box,Manuals > > Commodore 64 Mint Box,Manuals > > Commodore 64SX Exec Mint Runs great > > Commodore 64SX Dead Very Clean > > Commodore 8032 vgood 32K Ram > > Commodore Amiga 500 Mint Stock > > Commodore C128D Mint W/Kybd > > Commodore C128D Dead W/Kybd > > Commodore Pet Good > > Commodore Plus/4 Mint Box, Manuals > > Commodore Plus/4 Vgood Box, Manuals > > Commodore Plus/4 Mint In Box w/Manual > > Commodore Vic-20 M1 Mint Box, Manuals > > Commodore Vic-20 M2 Mint Box, Manuals > > Compaq Portable XT mint Dual Floppy > > Compaq Portable XT Mint Dual Floppy > > Compaq Portable XT Good 10 MB Hard Drive > > Compaq Portable XT Plus Dead 10 MB Hard Drive > > Compaq Portable II 286 Mint 20 MB Hard Drive > > Compaq Portable II 286 Mint 20 MB HD & Modem > > Franklin Ace 1200 Mint Dual Drive, Manuals > > IBM PC-Junior Mint Monitor, Expanded > > IBM PC-Junior Mint Monitor > > IBM PC-Junior Ukwn > > IBM PC-Junior Ukwn > > IBM Portable XT 5155 VGood Hard Drive, Floppy > > IBM PC-XT VGood Dual Floppy,10MB HD > > IBM PC-XT Mint Color,HD,20MB > > Kaypro 1 Vgood Works Perfectly > > Kaypro 1 Vgood Manuals Software > > Kaypro 10 Good Bad Hard Drive > > Kaypro 10 Vgood Works Fine > > Kaypro 10 Mint Perfect all Books/Sftwre > > Kaypro 16 Vgood Work Fine > > Kaypro 16-F Mint Dual Floppy - Rare > > Kaypro 2 Vgood Manuals, SOftware > > Kaypro 2X Good Mint CP/M & Manuals > > Kaypro 4-84 Mint Carrying Case > > Kaypro II Mint Manuals, Carry Case > > Kaypro II Good Works OK > > Laser 128 Vgood Manual > > Mattel Aquarius Mint Manuals, Cassette > > Mattel Aquarius Good Manuals > > Mattel Aquarius Mint Boxed w/All Periferals > > Osborne 01-A Mint White Screen > > Osborne 01-A Mint Green screen > > Osborne 01-A Dead Tech Manuals > > Osborne 01 Vgood Complete w/Manuals > > Osborne Executive Mint Manuals, Software > > Osborne Executive Poor Manuals, Software > > Radio Shack CoCo 1 Good 4K,Gray,Chicklet keys > > Radio Shack CoCo 1 Mint 16K, Manuals > > Radio Shack CoCo 1 Good 16K Ram > > Radio Shack CoCo 2 Mint 32K Ram, manuals > > Radio Shack CoCo 2 Good 32K Ram > > Radio Shack CoCo 2 Mint 64K Ram, Newer Kybd > > Radio Shack CoCo 3 Mint 64K RAM > > Radio Shack MC-10 Mint Box, Manuals,PS > > Radio Shack MC-10 Mint PS > > Radio Shack Model 1 Dead > > Radio Shack Model 1 Mint Level II Basic 16K RAM > > Radio Shack Model 100 Vgood Manual > > Radio Shack Model 102 Vgood > > Radio Shack Model 4 Good > > Radio Shack Model 4P Mint Manuals, Software > > Radio Shack Model 4P Good > > Tandy 1200FD Vgood > > Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Silver/Blk > > Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Beige/Tan > > Texas Instruments 99/4A Mint Mint in Box, Manual > > Texas Instruments TI99 Mint Silver/Blk > > Texas Instruments TI99 Mint Box,Manuals Beige > > Texas Instruments TI99/4A Good Beige/Tan > > TI-Expansion good Expansion Box Loaded > > TI-Expansion & Manuals Mint Manuals, Everything Loaded > > Timex 1000 poor Works > > Zenith Z170 Mint Manual, Very Clean > > Mac SE/30 Mint Clean, HD, SCSI > > Mac Plus Vgood Clean > > Mac Plus Vgood Clean > > Mac II LC Vgood Kybds > > Mac SE Vgood Clean > > Mac Laptop Bad Clean > > Mac 512 Vgood Clean > > Mac Classic II Mint Clean, SCSI HD > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 22:58:14 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Chicago Area Sites References: <200104130110.SAA11787@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3AD67955.FF3A452E@greenbelt.com> "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > Jason McBrien wrote: > > > > > Must be UIUC stuff, the NCSA is HQ'd around there somewhere.. Mmmm.. vintage > > > supercomputers.... > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention old copies of 'Mosaic'! > > > > I've noticed that Mosaic doesn't seem to work anymore. Every page request > seems to return "400 Bad Request: Your browser sent a request that this > server could not understand. The number of request header fields exceeds > this server's limit." > > I'm disappointed. > Hey E, You're not there maintaining it! That maintenance doesn't automatically happen you know. It's like going from FORTRAN II to FORTRAN 77, with all the new code wondering why the old code can't handle block-structure as well as character arrays. Eric > > Eric From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 23:03:51 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Chicago area sites In-Reply-To: <3AD6755F.F3488C76@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: Yeah I know and I'm surpirised to this day that I even felt the need to contact them but it was a fun experience anyway. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Chomko > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:41 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Chicago area sites > > > > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > I recently acquired a GRiD laptop (486 mono version) and it had the hard > > drive in it and on it were some (non-DOD) files that shouldn't have been > > left on the machine at all. They were classified but the IRS > should empty > > their machines before a field agent turns them in. I called the office I > > bought it from, they checked records and had a person from the > office that > > had it contact me. I told them what was on it and that I would, without > > fail, fully delete all info on the drive and that I wanted them > to be aware > > that things are leaving their office into the general public. I > was thanked > > by phone and a week later by mail with a check for $75 for my time and > > effort in cleaning it up and preventing a possible disaster. Wanna bet > > that's the first thing they look for when I get audited? > > I doubt it. With all the bookmakers and other petty crooks your one time > $75 payment is some potatoes compared to what they are really after. > > Eric > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 23:04:10 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: New 1802 (ELF) Emulator, Website In-Reply-To: <01a701c0c357$d038fa60$92db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20010413040410.76903.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike wrote: > > > > Basically, if I were to read a sales flyer for the VIP-3301, what features > > would RCA highlight? > > I remember seeing one ad for the VP 3301 in one issue of Kilobaud. I'll try > to find it again. Basically... It was advertised as a TV ASCII Terminal > that could be upgraded to a computer. I'm looking in one now and don't see where it could be upgraded. There are no unpopulated sockets, no edge connector, no internal mezannine pins. The DIP switches are labelled as follows... UC U & LC Upper Case only vs Upper and Lower Case, presumably E/O M/S Even/Odd vs Mark/Space E/M O/S Even/Mark vs Odd/Space 2SB 1SB 1 vs 2 Stop Bits F-DPX H-DPX Full vs Half Duplex CTRL OFF Working vs Not Working CTRL Key? CD OFF Carrier Detect on vs off? 40/24 20/12 Screen size in X by Y? ---------------- CL EIA 20mA vs RS-232 LOCAL LINE Local vs Online 110 --+ 300 B 1200 A 4800 U 9600 D 19.2K --+ So nothing there relating to computer functions. I'm stumped. It doesn't mean a marketdroid didn't claim it was convertable, but I just don't see where it's possible. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 23:05:33 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: DC area sites References: <6a.d10b91f.2807aea0@aol.com> Message-ID: <3AD67B0D.EBB72C5F@greenbelt.com> I am unaware of VA, but in MD we have the Univ.of MD, Goddard Spaceflight Center and a whole bunch of thrift stores. I'm so busy canvasing those three that I have yet to check out American U, Catholic U or the Navy yard (did that over 20 years ago and got a paper tape punch that I have since sold). Anyway, universities are a good start (NOVA, William & Mary), Ft. Belvoir (sic), heck the Penatgon could keep you busy for a whole year! No, we are spoiled here in DC with surplus computer equipment. But I think MD may have more than VA. GSFC is a great place and I have gotten some neat items. I did miss a generic S-100 system that I'm kicking myself for having passed up. Oh well.... Eric Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > anyone know any places where I could find stuff in the suburbs southwest of > DC (Fairfax County) whether it be through dumpster diving or second hand > stores > > thanks, > Robert Cobbins From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 12 23:07:02 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) References: <018001c0c3b9$8ee78ec0$43799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3AD67B66.F8AFCE08@greenbelt.com> Did you build it for a class project? Techinco was based out of Columbia, MD. Eric ajp166 wrote: > From: James B. DiGriz > > >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > >> > > >> > >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco > back in > >> the > >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class > project in > >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of > these days > > I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. > > Allison From Demon02554 at aol.com Thu Apr 12 23:11:18 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: DC area sites Message-ID: <57.1469fd51.2807d666@aol.com> In a message dated 4/13/01 12:09:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chomko@greenbelt.com writes: << the Penatgon could keep you busy for a whole year! >> im in no mood to go to jail...i was almost detained for asking..ASKING some people at Network Solutions if they had any old hardware that they no longer planned to use From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 12 23:21:36 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Withdrawn: Offer of system/36 parts (wet bar) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010413041729.TVGN1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Please do accept our apology. I was hoping for a Protect Board for my System/36 and one was offered by a generous list member. In hopes of keeping this system whole, I withdraw my offer of free components. Sincere apologies to anyone concerned. Best wishes to all, The Technoid -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Thu Apr 12 23:23:16 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific PEEK (65) Journals In-Reply-To: <000001c0c3c7$ddcece00$abbc040c@compaq> Message-ID: OK I giveup - how'd you get the picture inset next to the item title bar? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David L Kuhn Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:13 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Ohio Scientific PEEK (65) Journals Cleaning out more of my basement and old computer collection. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1229772880 Does anyone here think I could get anything for a Superboard 2 in a C1P Case with memory expansion/floppy controller board? It is escentially a C1P. If so, I could clean it up a bit and put it on ebay. If not, it will evenutally just get pitched. It is a piece of my history, but there has to come a point where I must let go. Thanks Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010412/4ff2a29f/attachment.html From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 23:34:21 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD67866.41B05472@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010413043421.56680.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > I got a Commodore Colt a couple of months ago. Any one ever heard of > that? Yep Got one. I use it to program GALs for my Amiga product. I stuck a 20Mb XT-IDE drive in it and an 8-bit NIC - I use the packet driver and kermit to get ROM and GAL files on/off it. For a Turbo-XT, it's OK. A little strange, but only because C= did a bunch to make the hardware less involved to configure (they came up with a Plug-n-Play scheme that seems to work OK for standard hardware like parallel ports, serial ports, etc). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Apr 12 23:35:30 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010413020207.11184@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <010801c0c3d3$2e3f73c0$a713f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> > >Hmmm, I just recently came across one for the first time (not for sale, it > >was part of a collection I was appraising). How many games were actually > >made for this thing? > > I think at least 40 titles shipped for it in Japan. Just about any > Macintosh application could run on the Pippin if placed on a boot CD with > the appropriate system software. There's a web site that claims that 90 titles were shipped total: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tenchi/pippins w.html > > >Did it ever make it to market? If not, why? > > Yes. Quite a few were sold in Japan. It was on the U.S. market for > hardly any time at all before Apple killed it. The version marketed in > Japan was platinum and called the "Bandai Pippin Atmark". The U.S. > version was black and labeled "Bandai Pippin @World". The American > version (and I presume the Japanese, too) came with a subscription to > Bandai's online service. Of course, that doesn't work any more. > Now-defunct Bandai Digital Entertainment actually killed it about 10 months after it hit the U.S. market. Bandai distributed new web browser software to the few hunder @World subscribers so that the Pippins could still be used (anyone have this disk?). Supposedly, you can "trick" the @World browser software to work using a regular dial-up account, but I've never tried. > The Pippin was a Macintosh PowerPC with 4 MB RAM. Ever try running a > Power Mac with 4 MB RAM? > My spec sheet says Power PC 603 at 66MHz with 4 MB ROM and 5 MB RAM expandable to 13MB with an 8MB module. Pippin accessories included a keyboard/digitizing stylus, controller, wireless controller, 28.8K modem, FloppyDock and EtherDock. It may be that some of these never made it to market though. If anyone doesn't know what these things look like, I took a screen shot off my retailer presentation CD and posted it at: http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/Pippin.jpg > It's got SCSI, though. The Playstation and WebTV can't boast that! > > Tom > > Applefritter > www.applefritter.com From ernestls at home.com Thu Apr 12 23:42:36 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Collection list (looking for) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people are >> looking for.. >Off the top of my head: >Acorn ARM based machines >Sharp X68000 >Atari MegaSTE/MegaSTE/TT/Falcon and peripherals >workstations of all kinds I'm always on the lookout for Apple II clones (there are so many different ones.) Ernest From tony.eros at machm.org Thu Apr 12 23:49:06 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Withdrawn: Offer of system/36 parts (wet bar) In-Reply-To: <20010413041729.TVGN1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbo x> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413004416.00a9a030@mail.njd.concentric.com> Maybe it'll work twice -- I'll give it a try! I have an original power cord that was wired into an Altair 8800. I don't really _want_ to use it to hang a potted plant from a hook in my family room, but it looks like I'll have to. Unless, of course, some generous soul would be so kind as to give me the parts I'm missing to restore my power cord to its former complete Altair greatness. :-) -- Tony At 12:21 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Please do accept our apology. > >I was hoping for a Protect Board for my System/36 and one was offered by a >generous list member. > >In hopes of keeping this system whole, I withdraw my offer of free >components. > >Sincere apologies to anyone concerned. > >Best wishes to all, > >The Technoid > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------- >Jeffrey S. Worley >President >Complete Computer Services, Inc. >30 Greenwood Rd. >Asheville, NC 28803 >828-277-5959 >Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com >THETechnoid@home.com >----------------------------------------------------------- From ewy at southwind.net Fri Apr 13 00:28:29 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <200104121611.LAA55585@opal.tseinc.com> <001b01c0c3b1$cfe20de0$9aa9b23f@home> Message-ID: <3AD68E7C.C389D79A@southwind.net> Musicman38 wrote: > Here's a partial list of my collection. > ... > Radio Shack CoCo 3 Mint 64K RAM > ... Can't resist the urge to make a real picky correction. To the best of my knowledge, the CoCo 3 came with a minimum of 128K RAM installed. Am I unaware of some obscure version? -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From kushibi at zac.att.ne.jp Fri Apr 13 00:45:33 2001 From: kushibi at zac.att.ne.jp (Hirotatsu Fujiwara) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <000901c0c323$c04b35c0$ad9eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <000901c0c323$c04b35c0$ad9eb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200104130545.AAA71572@opal.tseinc.com> > Forgot a couple: > > Heath H-89A > Apple/Bandai Pippin (not 10 yrs. old, but pretty cool) > > Speaking OT and of Pippin, does anyone have any > software to trade or sell? > Some Pippin items are listed on Yahoo Japan Auction. They are in Japanese language.If you do not have font for Japanese, They are not displayed correctly.But You can enjoy the photos. Search Result of "pippin" http://search.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/auc?p=pippin&alocale=0jp&acc=jp For examples: Pippin New in Box http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/35473654 Pippin atmark modem New in Box http://page3.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c3203826 The discription says,"it can be used for Mac,Newton and Pippin!". Pippin Wireless Contoroller http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/35412284 The discription says,"If you slightly modify it,you can connect it to ADB on Mac." Interesting? Hiro from Tokyo From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 13 00:53:25 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: <20010413034809.FPHL27669.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <200104121356.GAA12704@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Mike Ford at "Apr 12, 1 02:03:32 am" Message-ID: >I have LC III ('030 25MHz, cachless), knew it's performance >differences except I have no idea about IIci. Most of things is very >similar except for FPU and slots, cache support but how efficient >IIci go? What areas IIci is better at, video? Overall performance? IIci major points, 3 open nubus slots, has a fpu (runs NetBSD). It weighs about 15 lbs, 10 less than a IIx, builtin video frees up a slot. It has 8 30 pin simm slots with no special requirements (not like IIx with the pal on 4 mb and up). Just a nice little machine with just enough HP (25 Mhz 68030) to handle most simple tasks on a network. When you start thinking about what you need for a cheap little router, the IIci is perfect. Easy step up is the Q700, mostly the same but with more juice (68040 25 mhz). From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Fri Apr 13 01:34:23 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Fw: My Collection Message-ID: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> I'll join in ... SWTPC 6800 with 6809 CPU Zx81 BBC-B . A killer homecomputer, if not for the limited memory.. M68000 SBC ( with a 4MHz 68000...) 2 Mac Plus 2 Compaq Lunchboxes with plasma scrren. PDP8/L , power supply/ transformer dead . Anybody has some numbers on the secondary voltages so i can rewire a new one ?The various pdp8 websites do not have this information... ASR33, needs a clean and some debugging.... PDP8/E with TU56, 2x RK05, IOMEC papertape reader, Facit punch PDP8/F with TU56 and DSD440 PDP8/A with TU56 and RL01 VT100, hacked about to contain an 11/23, with external ST412, runs RX11. Anybody has some RT11 manuals available. Tek4014 in running state Philips P856 16 bit mini, no peripherals, no software... A TTL based 12bit computer of my own design. Plus some spares and various bits&pieces, and no room left... Jos Dreesen From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 13 02:43:25 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: THETechnoid@home.com "Collection list (just for phun)" (Apr 10, 19:13) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <10104130843.ZM17242@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 10, 19:13, THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I'd like to see some of your lists. I may as well join in. Not all of my collection is accessible, some of it is on the "fix, one day" list, and it's in no particular order, but here goes: BBC Microcomputer Model B (1 working, 1 not quite, parts for 1-2 more) BBC Microcomputer Model B Plus x 3/4 (needs serious work) Torch Z80 Card x 2 Acorn 6502 2nd Processor Acorn Z80 2nd Processor Acorn Electron Acorn Atom Archimedes 310 Archimedes 440 Acorn R260 Acorn R260 with non-Acorn SCSI (so basically an A540) Apple ][+ Apple //e Apple Mac Plus x 2 (one has a hard drive) Apple Mac IIvx Sharp MZ80K Atari MegaST Exidy Sorcerer Dragon 32 Nascom 2 Commodore PET 2001-8K Commodore 128 (US version) Commodore VIC-20 Amiga 500 (incomplete) homebrew Z8 SBC Sinclair ZX81 Sinclair Spectrum Sinclair Spectrum + Sinclair QL x 2 Sparcstation 1+ Sparc Classic SGI Indigo R3000, "song and dance machine" graphics SGI Indigo R3000, XZ graphics SGI Indigo R3000, Elan graphics Silicon Graphics Indy R4600SC Silicon Graphics Indy R4600SC NeXTstation XT-compatible AT-compatible 386SX-16 486DX-66 486DX4-100 PDP-11/03 x 2 } PDP-11/23 x 2 } but only 2 x BA11 to run them in PDP-11/73 x 2 } PDP-11/34 PDP-11/24 (boards only, no backplane/panel/box) microPDP-11/83 microVax I Vaxstation 3100 WP78 (PDP-8) Sage II Cambridge Z88 Psion Organiser Microwriter AgendA At any given time, between 12 and 18 of these are on the network, which is mostly 10baseT with some 10base2 and 10base5, and to which I'm about to add some FDDI. Also on the net are: HP 1600CM network printer Star laserprinter GatorBox CS a couple of printer server boxes three managed hubs assorted other network devices and lurking in odd places: too many monitors uncertain number of printers probably half a dozen assorted terminals far too many assorted PCBs uncounted keyboards of odd types uncountable disk drives various Zilog boards looking for a backplane 260 drawers of components What I'm lookng for: 1) anything free :-) 2) 1/4 of the Origin 2000 from work ;-) 3) more space 4) more time 5) bottom half of a case for an Acorn Atom 6) fibre optic cables 7) QBus SCSI disk controller 8) TU56 -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From alex at linuxhacker.org Fri Apr 13 02:47:13 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Active during: 1963-1965 What's amazing to me is that they built such a huge (and expensive) facility and then only used it for such a short time. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Apr 13 05:16:23 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Alex Holden wrote: > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Active during: 1963-1965 > > What's amazing to me is that they built such a huge (and expensive) > facility and then only used it for such a short time. In the spirit of Accuracy: just change "they" to "us taxpayers". 2 Days to April 15th, for all you U.S. taxpayer types... ;} Cheerz John From Arno_1983 at gmx.de Fri Apr 13 05:56:59 2001 From: Arno_1983 at gmx.de (Arno Kletzander) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Found Fujitsu FANUC/Siemens (CNC?) unit in our basement Message-ID: <29945.987159419@www12.gmx.net> Chad Fernandez warned me: >Please don't send attachments to the list. This is bad form, in general, for any list. I think it is >supposed to be worse than off-topic threads :-) OK, now I know it was a good idea to ask first instead of sending 'em straight away... (Such rules should be mentioned in the FAQ or some kind of "Do's and Dont's" section of the classiccmp homepage, or did I just miss it when I was reading?!) As I think I won't have the time for creating a good web page in the near future, I'm rather going for the temporary storage approach, as suggested by Mike Ford: >One mentioned on another list is www.whalemail.com that allows something like 75 MB of free >temporary storage. I'll also be waiting the next few days and only get myself some space if any reply to my post actually caring about the machine arrives - why offer the pics if nobody knows the box and/or wants to have a look at? Arno Kletzander Arno_1983@gmx.de -- GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet. http://www.gmx.net From groberts at mitre.org Fri Apr 13 06:13:33 2001 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming Message-ID: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> I've been working with someone who has an old 8080-based single board computer he's trying to get to work. We're investigating several possible problems but it's starting to look like there's a problem with the EPROM. I have the ROM code he needs and will be checking out the EPROMS, but we may be faced with a need to reprogram one or both of these. They're the old 256 byte 1702A Intel chips (ceramic). I've only programmed the 27xx series but have read that the 1702's are "really difficult" to program. Was wondering if folks in this group could comment on how to proceed if/when we decide we need to reprogram one of these. Are there more modern plug compatible alternatives? We may also need to replace one or both - any sources known other than eBay? thanks. p.s. FYI, the computer here is the "MMD-1", an old 8080 trainer/breadboarding box. here's a picture i found on the web: http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.E&L-MMD1.html - glenn -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: groberts.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 369 bytes Desc: Card for Glenn Roberts Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/06a4d943/groberts.vcf From dkuhn at acsworld.net Fri Apr 13 07:15:50 2001 From: dkuhn at acsworld.net (David L Kuhn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Ohio Scientific PEEK (65) Journals References: Message-ID: <002001c0c413$7bbed2e0$09ba040c@compaq> It was a $.25 option. I thought it was going to be on the search list line. Oh well. ----- Original Message ----- From: Russ Blakeman To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:23 AM Subject: RE: Ohio Scientific PEEK (65) Journals OK I giveup - how'd you get the picture inset next to the item title bar? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David L Kuhn Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:13 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Ohio Scientific PEEK (65) Journals Cleaning out more of my basement and old computer collection. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1229772880 Does anyone here think I could get anything for a Superboard 2 in a C1P Case with memory expansion/floppy controller board? It is escentially a C1P. If so, I could clean it up a bit and put it on ebay. If not, it will evenutally just get pitched. It is a piece of my history, but there has to come a point where I must let go. Thanks Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/dd239829/attachment.html From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Apr 13 08:27:01 2001 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <971.503T81T8672141rachael_@gmx.net> Here is my small collection Commodore Busness Machines -------------------------- Cbm 8296(i`m missing a 6545 or 6845 crtc IC and a new PSU for it) Cbm 8032sk with comal80 Commodore vic-20 Serveral Commodore 64`s Commodore 128 serveral 1541 and 1541II 8250lp dual floppy drive 8050 dual floppy drive Commodore 500 Commodore 600 Commodore cd32 Commodore 1200 Commodore 3000 (my second work machine) Commodore 4000 (the machine I`m using every day) Commodore pc60II other ----- philips g7000 philips odyssey 2001 Texas ti99/4a 2x zx81 with 16 and 64 memory expansion amstrad cpc464 with 512kb memory expansion Ibm 5160 xt Rc Piccolo (Saddly its broken, have`nt be able to repair it yet) Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 07:49:54 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <384907090.987166194916.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> For me to build it as a class project I'd have been the professor. I'd been out of school for a while by then. No, I wanted a 9900 based machine to see what was on the non intel track back then. My 9900, ELF, 6800d1 and SC/MP all came from that effort back then. I've had them since before 1979. Allison ------Original Message------ From: Eric Chomko To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 13, 2001 4:07:02 AM GMT Subject: Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Did you build it for a class project? Techinco was based out of Columbia, MD. Eric ajp166 wrote: > From: James B. DiGriz > > >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > >> > > >> > >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco > back in > >> the > >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class > project in > >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of > these days > > I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. > > Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 07:52:19 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> No, Pics online. I have to get a camera for that or maybe borrow one. It would be interesting to line all of them up and photograph them. Allison ------Original Message------ From: "James B. DiGriz" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 13, 2001 3:08:56 AM GMT Subject: Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco > back in > >> the > >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class > project in > >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of > these days > > > I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. > > Allison > Do you happen to have a picture of it online anywhere, Allison? jbdigriz From dogbert at mindless.com Fri Apr 13 08:03:39 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <008901c0c257$79ea10a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <002401c0c2b2$915974a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD51378.BA1B906B@mindless.com> <003b01c0c317$9a3061a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002501c0c41a$3c9d27e0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:12 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > As far as looking for key switches, for functionality, I rather liked Sellam's > suggestion implying that an old PC Keyboard (not a rarity) might provide > sufficient switches. That's a great idea. I have a few dead ones in the boneyard. Might as well tear into one and see if it can be salvaged. I'm going to have to learn to desolder I guess. :) Don't know how I got this far in electronics hobby building and never had to do any serious parts removal. Moreover, with a good software package and a hi-res > printer, you could make key legends that you can rubber-cement to the keycaps > and paint over with clear laquer. If you don't mind that they're less durable, > you can even use the (clear vinyl, not "magic") scotch tape to keep from rubbing > off the legends. The caps come off the keytops, and if you are careful you can > do this so it looks good and works very well. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:31 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Look "good" ... ??? ... Depends on your preferences, I guess. > > > > > > A big part of the question of HOW to go about fixing this is to answer the > > > question of whether your goal is to restore the KIM-1 to its original > condition > > > for historical authenticity or whether you'd just as soon have something > that > > > works well instead. > > > > Operational is the main thing, but I'd be thrilled to restore it if the > opportunity > > came up. > > > > My main interest in the KIM and other really simple machines is as a > > hands-on demo of what being a computerist was like in the early days > > of microcomputers, before the keyboard, box, and monitor > > paradigm took hold. Extra points for toggle switches too. :) > > > > I've seen interest in the thing from visitors who are > > into computers, and so far all were less "what a quaint but completely > > prehistoric piece of junk" than "wow, I can't believe a machine with > > 1/1000th the CPU speed and 1/64,000th the memory can play > > Hunt the Wumpus and other games and they're even a little fun." :) > > It's a tribute to doing an amazing amount with what by modern standards > > seems preposterously little, and I think preserving this realization is part > > of what being "into" classic computers can be about. > > > > > > > > > If the former is your goal, then you've a lot of hunting to > > > do, but may eventually find out how to modify some other product to fit the > > > application. On the other hand, there are lots of available keypads, or, if > you > > > prefer, lots of available individual keyswitches with removable/clear-capped > > > tops, that you can build a really decent and servicable keypad that you can > > > attach to the auxilliary connector in order to substitute it for the > original > > > without having first to remove the existing keypad. It seems to me that > they > > > should work quite well in parallel. > > > > Okay. I try the regular electronics outlets. I'll try specifically keyboard > > manufacturers (ALPs, Cherry, etc. I guess) and see what I can dig up. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that Commodore actually fabricated the keypads themselves, and, > in > > > fact, rather doubt it, so it's likely someone, somewhere, will have used a > > > similar keypad, or, at least, similar switches, so that will provide you > with > > > amusement at swapmeets and junk sales. Moreover, if you haven't yet looked > at > > > third-party switch catalogs, I'd certainly recommend that so you can explore > > > replacing the keypad with a possibly more durable and/or convenient, yet > > > cosmetically similar keypad. > > > > > > This will require some serious head-scratching. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ross Archer" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:17 AM > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM > > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit that's > > > > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short a > > > > particular > > > > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the > keypad. > > > > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step) and > > > > RS (reset). > > > > > > > > I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and they're > > > > working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons > > > > involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting > > > > with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick, > > > > but what would look good. > > > > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > > > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > > > > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > > > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > > > > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Apr 13 08:07:03 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Withdrawn: Offer of system/36 parts (wet bar) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413004416.00a9a030@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <20010413130333.EROZ1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Not like that at all. I was offered one a few month ago, but it never panned out. I offered the machine's parts and the fellow called me to tell me he was shipping the protect board. It was a nice thing that caught me by surprise is all. Sorry. Regards, Jeff In <5.0.2.1.0.20010413004416.00a9a030@mail.njd.concentric.com>, on 04/13/01 at 09:07 AM, Tony Eros said: >Maybe it'll work twice -- I'll give it a try! >I have an original power cord that was wired into an Altair 8800. I >don't really _want_ to use it to hang a potted plant from a hook in my >family room, but it looks like I'll have to. >Unless, of course, some generous soul would be so kind as to give me the >parts I'm missing to restore my power cord to its former complete Altair >greatness. >:-) >-- Tony >At 12:21 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>Please do accept our apology. >> >>I was hoping for a Protect Board for my System/36 and one was offered by a >>generous list member. >> >>In hopes of keeping this system whole, I withdraw my offer of free >>components. >> >>Sincere apologies to anyone concerned. >> >>Best wishes to all, >> >>The Technoid >> >>-- >>----------------------------------------------------------- >>Jeffrey S. Worley >>President >>Complete Computer Services, Inc. >>30 Greenwood Rd. >>Asheville, NC 28803 >>828-277-5959 >>Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com >>THETechnoid@home.com >>----------------------------------------------------------- -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 08:06:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <20010413043421.56680.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AD6F9E2.63A1B20E@greenbelt.com> Thanks for the info. I think I have an old ST225 around someplace. Eric Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > I got a Commodore Colt a couple of months ago. Any one ever heard of > > that? > > Yep Got one. I use it to program GALs for my Amiga product. I stuck > a 20Mb XT-IDE drive in it and an 8-bit NIC - I use the packet driver and > kermit to get ROM and GAL files on/off it. > > For a Turbo-XT, it's OK. A little strange, but only because C= did > a bunch to make the hardware less involved to configure (they came up > with a Plug-n-Play scheme that seems to work OK for standard hardware > like parallel ports, serial ports, etc). > > -ethan > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 08:13:20 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: FA: Technology books - hurry! Message-ID: <3AD6FB70.CC629D05@greenbelt.com> Programmer's Intro to IBM 360 Architecture, Instructions Set & Assembly Language (Student Guide) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228259937 LSI11 PDP11/03 Processor Handbook - Digital http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228298783 TTY 43 teleprinter Install and Service Guide http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228307198 Harvard Symposium on Switching Theory 1957 -2 (rare) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1422329175 These end today! From dogbert at mindless.com Fri Apr 13 08:17:35 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <001b01c0c2b7$0c5562a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <002c01c0c41c$2d15b6a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > Yes ... cannibalizing a PC keyboard might be a solution, provided you can come > up with a way to modify the keycap legends. Or not. 0-9 ==> 0-9 (from top row) A-F ==> A-F AD ==> * (from numeric keypad) DA ==> Insert (from stand-alone pad) PC ==> P + ==> +/= (or + on numeric if not oversize cap) GO ==> G ST ==> S RS ==> R Of course, you could duplicate the layout exactly. :) Thanks for the ideas again. This ought to work relatively well. The outboard display is mostly no-go though. Although the 7-segment digital lines go out to the application connector, where they can be re-buffered with a 74HC06 or similar, the lines to select which LED to light at any particular scan moment (nor the raw undecoded input selecting them) do not leave the board. I'd have to solder to something, whether it was the 6530 or the decoder. For obvious reasons, if I did solder to it, it would be on the decoder outputs x 6, since I can get another one of those if they fried. :) > MicroSwitch once made keyboard > switches that had an undersized keycap with a clear plastic cover that was > "normal" sized. You could put a paper legend underneath the clear cover, > obviously, and thereby avoid having to replace it all the time, not that > replacing it would be a big chore. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sellam Ismail" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:12 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > > > But still I would like a "nice looking" > > > keypad, or at least "not amateurish". > > > So does anyone know where one might find > > > a "take a bunch of keycaps and fit into a plastic > > > grid to make your own keypad array" sort of kit? > > > > Maybe you can find an old calculator with a suitable keypad and > > cannibalize it? Or perhaps some old PC numeric keypad? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > > From wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl Fri Apr 13 10:18:30 2001 From: wstan at localhostnl.demon.nl (William Staniewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Contemporary monitor Message-ID: <20010413151830.A8642@localhostnl.demon.nl> At some point I will need to replace my old monitor that is growing dim and blurry. I hope to replace it with a new contemporary monitor that is not too expensive. It will need to be multisync, sync on green, and have BNC input. Does anyone have experience with anything along that line? I know Iiyama has a couple models: Pro 410 and Pro 510. Sony is a bit too expensive. Any other brands and models? -Bill From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 13 08:31:49 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Collection list (Icon) In-Reply-To: <20010412235112.A3934@localhostnl.demon.nl> from "William Staniewicz" at Apr 12, 01 11:51:12 pm Message-ID: <200104131331.JAA26943@wordstock.com> Here are some more I found: http://www.interlog.com/~perelgut/resume.html ^^^ One of many I found who worked on the ICON system... http://corax.cwrl.utexas.edu/cac/archives/v7/7_3_html/7_3_6_Joram.html http://www.occdsb.on.ca/~sel/newswave/ontario.htm http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-10/0046.html http://www.arcosoft.com/people.htm >From going through a bunch of sites it looks like the ICON was somehow connected to Unisys. Plus somewhere I remember reading that the ICONS were based on the 80186. Of course this last bit may be totally wrong... Bryan Happy Friday and All.... > > You got me curious about the ICON too. So I did a little > web surfing and came up with the following link to a school > page handbook that describes ICONs in the computer lab. > Who knows, maybe they still have them and are ready to > get rid of them. If you get a bunch... hold one for me, please. :) > > -Bill > > http://ecdhs.haltonbe.on.ca/StudentPlanner/atop.shtml > From dogbert at mindless.com Fri Apr 13 08:32:49 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:15 2005 Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions Message-ID: <008101c0c41e$573dba20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Just wondering. How many Mhz or MIPS do you need to display dancing hamsters? What's the best way to get this to work using only a 7-segment LED for the display and telegraph sounder for sound output? My boss wants an estimate of how long it will take to implement this with a 4 bit CPU for under $1. Thanks very much in advance. ;) -- Ross From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 13 08:42:56 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Arizona trip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Some of the Atlas sites were put in so quick and never saw a booster installed. Just the fact that the sites were there was supposed to intimidate the Soviets, both in Moscow and in Havana. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Alex Holden > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:47 AM > To: Jeff Hellige > Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Arizona trip > > > On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > Active during: 1963-1965 > > What's amazing to me is that they built such a huge (and expensive) > facility and then only used it for such a short time. > > -- > ------- Alex Holden ------- > http://www.linuxhacker.org/ > http://www.robogeeks.org/ > From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 13 08:49:17 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > IIRC, the RS232 standard specifies a 25 pin connector. So strictly there > > > are no 9 pin RS232 ports. If you mean why do PC/AT machines have a DE9P > > > for the serial port, it was because (a) 9 pins is enough for the active > > > signals on said port and (b) you can fit a DE and a DB on a single PC > > > bracket, so you could have a combined parallel/serial adapter card. Which > > > IBM introduced with the PC/AT IIRC. > > > > Oh, but then you lose a lot of fun. The Amiga DB25 serial port features > > among others audio output on some pins. =) > > So presumably using an all-pins-wired cable to link it to some true RS232 > device that happens to implement all the pins is a good way to let magic > smoke out... I suppose that might be the case, but I don't really think the Commodore/Amiga engineers were stupid enough to place those outputs at volatile positions. According to HWB, they're at pins 11 and 18. > I've actually seen a device that has a single DB25 with the stnadard set > of RS232 signals on the stnadard pins (1-8 and 20 I think), and a > TTL-level Centronics-like parallel port on the other pins. Now that is a > device that you certainly don't connect to just any RS232 port. What about those two-in-one DB 25 serial ports seen on SUNs and big-name PCs? > > > And Apple used the 8 pin mini-DIN on the Mac+ and later because there > > > wasn't room for the DE9 connector used on the earler Macs. Hardware > > > hackers have been complaining ever since -- those mini-DINs are about the > > > worst connectors in the world to wire! > > > > Try a DIN-13 for size. > > I have done (and a DIN14, which is actually easier to wire than the > DIN13). I still think the mini DIN 9 is the worst to do (it was used on the > mouse port of the Archimedes, for instance), and the mini DIN 8 is only > slightly better than the 9 (and a lot worse than the DIN 13 and DIN 14). It's bad enough that there aren't any "shoes" for the cables, but the density gives it a striking resemblance to a jungle. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 13 09:05:15 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions In-Reply-To: <008101c0c41e$573dba20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> from Ross Archer at "Apr 13, 1 06:32:49 am" Message-ID: <200104131405.HAA07774@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > What's the best way to get this to work using only > a 7-segment LED for the display and telegraph sounder > for sound output? My boss wants > an estimate of how long it will take to implement > this with a 4 bit CPU for under $1. > > Thanks very much in advance. You know, drinking on the job gets you fired in most institutions. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of Greg Morris --------------------------------------------------- From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 13 09:14:04 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Fw: My Collection In-Reply-To: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010413091404.00941740@ubanproductions.com> Nice to see someone is collecting some "real computers". I have some microfiche on the PDP8 and if you can tell me the power supply model number, I may be able to look up the transformer voltages for you... --tom At 08:34 AM 4/13/01 +0200, you wrote: >I'll join in ... > >SWTPC 6800 with 6809 CPU >Zx81 >BBC-B . A killer homecomputer, if not for the limited memory.. >M68000 SBC ( with a 4MHz 68000...) >2 Mac Plus >2 Compaq Lunchboxes with plasma scrren. > >PDP8/L , power supply/ transformer dead . Anybody has some numbers on the >secondary voltages so i can rewire a new one ?The various pdp8 websites do >not have this information... >ASR33, needs a clean and some debugging.... >PDP8/E with TU56, 2x RK05, IOMEC papertape reader, Facit punch >PDP8/F with TU56 and DSD440 >PDP8/A with TU56 and RL01 >VT100, hacked about to contain an 11/23, with external ST412, runs RX11. >Anybody has some RT11 manuals available. > >Tek4014 in running state >Philips P856 16 bit mini, no peripherals, no software... >A TTL based 12bit computer of my own design. > >Plus some spares and various bits&pieces, and no room left... > > > Jos Dreesen > > > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 13 09:16:10 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: <10104130843.ZM17242@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010413091610.0095e430@ubanproductions.com> I see you are looking for a TU56. Do you have a TC11 to control one? --tom >What I'm lookng for: > >1) anything free :-) >2) 1/4 of the Origin 2000 from work ;-) >3) more space >4) more time >5) bottom half of a case for an Acorn Atom >6) fibre optic cables >7) QBus SCSI disk controller >8) TU56 > >-- > >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > From kginav at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 09:20:44 2001 From: kginav at earthlink.net (Gerhardt Meier) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100e/40 Message-ID: <3AD70B3C.8E1287B9@earthlink.net> I just received a 3100e/40, and have installed the setup program, but want to install a simple word program, but am having trouble doing it. Does anyone know the steps which I have to go through to install such a program? From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 09:31:45 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming In-Reply-To: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> Message-ID: If you have to replace them, you might try www.stocknsource.com. Go to "Search Our Inventory", and enter the part number. on 4/13/01 6:13 AM, Glenn Roberts at groberts@mitre.org wrote: > I've been working with someone who has an old 8080-based single board > computer he's trying to get to work. We're investigating several > possible problems but it's starting to look like there's a problem with > the EPROM. I have the ROM code he needs and will be checking out the > EPROMS, but we may be faced with a need to reprogram one or both of > these. They're the old 256 byte 1702A Intel chips (ceramic). I've only > programmed the 27xx series but have read that the 1702's are "really > difficult" to program. Was wondering if folks in this group could > comment on how to proceed if/when we decide we need to reprogram one of > these. Are there more modern plug compatible alternatives? We may also > need to replace one or both - any sources known other than eBay? > thanks. > > p.s. FYI, the computer here is the "MMD-1", an old 8080 > trainer/breadboarding box. here's a picture i found on the web: > > http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.E&L-MMD1.html > > > - glenn From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Apr 13 09:37:21 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions References: <200104131405.HAA07774@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3AD70F20.E931FC98@idirect.com> >Cameron Kaiser wrote: >>Ross Archer wrote: >>Just wondering. How many Mhz or MIPS >>do you need to display dancing hamsters? > > What's the best way to get this to work using only > > a 7-segment LED for the display and telegraph sounder > > for sound output? My boss wants > > an estimate of how long it will take to implement > > this with a 4 bit CPU for under $1. > > Thanks very much in advance. > You know, drinking on the job gets you fired in most institutions. :-P Jerome Fine replies: I think this case is much more serious. It sounds like the circuits in his brain have been scrambled by LSD. Of course the real answer is that it can be done for $ 0.01 if you are willing to trade dollars for equipment and time of problem solving. And you might have the problem better defined. How many inputs are there to the LED and sounder? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Apr 13 09:52:24 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Big Iron Alert References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413004416.00a9a030@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: Just went to the University of Michigan property disposition this morning, they had a full blown IBM S3390-3 mainframe with two storage array cabinets, three pallets worth of Wang VS-100 minicomputer, an SGI IRIS 2400 (2 boxes worth) and an SGI IRIS 4D-something-or-other. If anyone has the means to pick these up please do, I've seen UofM PD throw away perfectly good machines (A *NEW* IBM 370, never used) in their giant, oversized dumpster. The S3390 looks to be in mint condition, take well care of, the wang looks a little dinged up, the IRIS 2400 looks like somebody drove over it, those guys don't give minis any respect. No prices on anything, I think the VS100 is up for auction, so prices on the 3390 are probably negotiable. I've seen them give things away if someone would just pick them up. Personally I picked up a Sun monitor, finally, and a Quadra 900 chocked full of strange NuBus cards. Looks to be a National Instruments ADC board, and a Greenspring(?) Computers servo controller board. Time to build my battlebot! Also picked up a SCSI Magneto-Optical drive, maybe I can read all those NeXT MO disks I have laying around... From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Apr 13 09:57:20 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions References: <008101c0c41e$573dba20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: Well, I've seen surplussed computers for $1. Maybe a 286 or so you could strip for parts? Or maybe a PC and you could only use half the 8-bit bus. It could work, but it would look less like dancing hamsters and more like flashing lights, and you could use a frequency divider to make a drumbeat with the telegraph sounder... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions > Just wondering. How many Mhz or MIPS > do you need to display dancing hamsters? > > What's the best way to get this to work using only > a 7-segment LED for the display and telegraph sounder > for sound output? My boss wants > an estimate of how long it will take to implement > this with a 4 bit CPU for under $1. > > Thanks very much in advance. > ;) > > > -- Ross > > > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 09:53:27 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) References: <384907090.987166194916.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> Message-ID: <3AD712E6.42060EAF@greenbelt.com> ajp me wrote: > For me to build it as a class project I'd have been the professor. I'd been out of school for a while by then. > No, I wanted a 9900 based machine to see what was on the non intel track back then. My 9900, ELF, 6800d1 and SC/MP all came from that effort back then. I've had them since before 1979. > Whoa! The class I took in microcomputers (two actually) was once a week at 7:00pm. I was a regular full-time day student at that time. However, the class was populated with many over 30 types and in one class the Prof. was about 60 and the other class the Prof was 28! Interesting group of machines. Did the F8 have an eval kit?, as you mention the Ti-9900, RCA 1802, Mot 6800, and National's "Scamp". Fairchild's F8 seems to be the ONLY one you missed barring 6502 and Z-80, which became very popular anyway. I think I have the spec books for most of the chips you list above. Eric > > Allison > > ------Original Message------ > From: Eric Chomko > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 13, 2001 4:07:02 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) > > Did you build it for a class project? Techinco was based out of Columbia, MD. > > Eric > > ajp166 wrote: > > > From: James B. DiGriz > > > > >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco > > back in > > >> the > > >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class > > project in > > >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of > > these days > > > > I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. > > > > Allison From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 13 10:00:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: <20010413034809.FPHL27669.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > I have LC III ('030 25MHz, cachless), knew it's performance > differences except I have no idea about IIci. Most of things is very > similar except for FPU and slots, cache support but how efficient > IIci go? What areas IIci is better at, video? Overall performance? IIRC, the LCIII is identical to the Performa 450 I've got. I'd say performance is very similar, but the built-in video of the LCIII is far more flexible, capoable of higher resolutions as well as being VGA-friendly. Mind you, the IIci may be upgraded with a far more advanced graphics card. From jss at ou.edu Fri Apr 13 10:02:15 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (looking for) Message-ID: <987174135.3ad714f7ae874@email.ou.edu> > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people > are looking for.. I'm always looking for anything having to do with PDP-11s and their peripherals. I'm unsure as to what I'm going to end up with when the summer is over, so I can't be sure about anything specific. I suspect my want list includes (but is not limited to): DEC - Any PDP-11 central processor (especially 40, 45, 70) - RK05 (want 3+) - RP04 (want 1-2) - RA81 - paper-tape reader/punch - ASR33 - VT52 -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Fri Apr 13 10:06:52 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? (Was: large load (cont)) In-Reply-To: <987046594.3ad522c20f62a@email.ou.edu> References: <000f01c0c11e$1a6d3c40$d201a8c0@jay> "from Jay West at Apr 9,1 12:54:19 pm" <009401c0c2d7$706fb4a0$ec8953d1@fozzie> <987036048.3ad4f9901a3d6@email.ou.edu> <3AD51273.75DE357@dragonsweb.org> <987046594.3ad522c20f62a@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <987174412.3ad7160c1b195@email.ou.edu> Quoting "Jeffrey S. Sharp" : > Quoting "James B. DiGriz" : > > You don't suppose you could get that maintenance guy to show you > > where the machine is and check if there are any salvageable parts, > > if you get a chance, do you? > > I'll check and get back to you. Ack! Pfft! Grrrr! I just found out that the "farmer's ravine" story was a myth, and that the machine was sold to a guy a few towns away to be scrapped. I still trying to find out what happened to the 99s. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 10:11:07 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming References: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> Message-ID: <003201c0c42b$f79440e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> For a number of reasons, it's worth the effort to modify the board to accept, say, a 2716, which is a single-voltage part 8x as large in capacity, though the same physical size. First of all, it makes it easier to write meaningful code, as 256 bytes is a pretty cramped space in which to store a control program. Second, as you've already discovered, it's difficult to get the 1702's programmed, and, third, you've probably checked the prices of these parts. I'd not expend the effort in favor of 2708's or other multi-supply parts, since these are more difficult to program than the single-voltage parts. If there exist more than one 24-pin socket, it would be worth the effort to modify the board to accept a 6116 SRAM as well. The extra RAM will not hurt either. If you're into saving the authentic configuration, however, you have a completely different set of problems. Not only do you have to deal with the cost of the devices, but you have to figure out how to program them. I'm not at all sure, but I may have an old (1976 or so) Intel databook that describes how to program the parts. It may take a few days to find it, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Roberts" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:13 AM Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming > I've been working with someone who has an old 8080-based single board > computer he's trying to get to work. We're investigating several > possible problems but it's starting to look like there's a problem with > the EPROM. I have the ROM code he needs and will be checking out the > EPROMS, but we may be faced with a need to reprogram one or both of > these. They're the old 256 byte 1702A Intel chips (ceramic). I've only > programmed the 27xx series but have read that the 1702's are "really > difficult" to program. Was wondering if folks in this group could > comment on how to proceed if/when we decide we need to reprogram one of > these. Are there more modern plug compatible alternatives? We may also > need to replace one or both - any sources known other than eBay? > thanks. > > p.s. FYI, the computer here is the "MMD-1", an old 8080 > trainer/breadboarding box. here's a picture i found on the web: > > http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.E&L-MMD1.html > > > - glenn From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 10:06:00 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION Message-ID: <3AD715D8.9B5E68C4@greenbelt.com> Anyone ever heard of it or have one? I pretty sure it was a hi-res graphics system (back in 1980) for S-100 systems. Eric From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Apr 13 10:12:34 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> >Marian Capel wrote: > PDP8/F with TU56 and DSD440 > PDP8/A with TU56 and RL01 > VT100, hacked about to contain an 11/23, with external ST412, runs RX11. > Anybody has some RT11 manuals available. > Jos Dreesen Jerome Fine replies: Interesting collection. I had not realized that DSD made a controller for the PDP8, just for the PDP-11. Also I am really surprised that DEC made an RL01 controller for the PDP8. AS for your VT100, it sounds like you might have a VT103 which was a standard DEC product. Does it use a dual 11/23 but have added a 3rd party MFM controller with its own boot ROM or are you using a quad 11/23 and an RQDX1? In my case, I used a Sigma RQD11-B controller that I borrowed for a while (too expensive at the time) with a dual 11/23, M8059 memory (1/4 MByte) and a DLV11-J. The ST412 was placed INSIDE the VT100 under the tube. Later, the backplane was upgraded to 22 bits, a 4 MByte memory substituted along with a dual 11/73 and a Sigma RQD11-EC ESDI controller. In this case, the drives were outside running on a PC power supply. A DHV11 was also added. This system was only used as a demo a few times since the power consumption of the 5 boards was too high for the VT103 to take a chance. But having 10 others terminals and a printer hanging off the VT103 and 2.4 GBytes of disk space in the back was rather impressive just for the fun of the experiment. By the way, all this was running RT-11/TSX-PLUS. I have a friend who may be getting rid of his PDP-11 systems and there are probably some RT-11 manuals. But they are heavy. The shipping would be expensive. And he may want some payment, especially for the SCSI host adapter - Peter Turnbull are you interested? Also, I am not surprised, but no one seems to consider software as part of their collection. Is it because they are mostly copies that have been "acquired" or because software is not really considered collectable by most list participants? From my point of view, the software is far more important since eventually (100 years?, 200 years?) the hardware will not be able to be repaired, but the software should always be able to run under an emulator. For the PDP-11, I use the emulator 90% of the time at this point since I don't need to switch systems plus the emulator runs 3 times as fast as the actual DEC 11/83 hardware even under a Pentium 166 MMX. When I finally upgrade the PC to a 1 GHz system in a few years (assuming that I can still run W95/W98), the difference will be even greater. Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone care about the RT-11 Operating System? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 10:18:46 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <001b01c0c2b7$0c5562a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <002c01c0c41c$2d15b6a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <004401c0c42d$092d25a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you can scrounge the key switches and caps you need from an extra PC-keyboard, that's great! As for the displays, I'd suggest you either (1) wire the displays in parallel with what's already there, or (2) fabricate a duplicate driver circuit, with both the encoders (or segment drivers) and the digit selects (I haven't yet looked at the schematic to see what's easiest) as well as the current-limiting resistors. The latter will provide more satisfying results, methinks. I'd recommend LARGE displays and a convenient keypad layout. The reason will become obvious as you get older. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:41 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > Yes ... cannibalizing a PC keyboard might be a solution, provided you can > come > > up with a way to modify the keycap legends. > > Or not. > > 0-9 ==> 0-9 (from top row) > A-F ==> A-F > AD ==> * (from numeric keypad) > DA ==> Insert (from stand-alone pad) > PC ==> P > + ==> +/= (or + on numeric if not oversize cap) > GO ==> G > ST ==> S > RS ==> R > > Of course, you could duplicate the layout exactly. > > :) > > Thanks for the ideas again. This ought to work relatively > well. > > The outboard display is mostly no-go though. > Although the 7-segment digital lines go out to > the application connector, where they can be > re-buffered with a 74HC06 or similar, the lines > to select which LED to light at any particular scan > moment (nor the raw undecoded input selecting them) > do not leave the board. I'd have to solder to something, > whether it was the 6530 or the decoder. For obvious > reasons, if I did solder to it, it would be on the decoder > outputs x 6, since I can get another one of those if they fried. :) > > > > MicroSwitch once made keyboard > > switches that had an undersized keycap with a clear plastic cover that was > > "normal" sized. You could put a paper legend underneath the clear cover, > > obviously, and thereby avoid having to replace it all the time, not that > > replacing it would be a big chore. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sellam Ismail" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:12 AM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Ross Archer wrote: > > > > > > > But still I would like a "nice looking" > > > > keypad, or at least "not amateurish". > > > > So does anyone know where one might find > > > > a "take a bunch of keycaps and fit into a plastic > > > > grid to make your own keypad array" sort of kit? > > > > > > Maybe you can find an old calculator with a suitable keypad and > > > cannibalize it? Or perhaps some old PC numeric keypad? > > > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > > > > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Apr 13 10:26:42 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <3AD510F4.248AC16D@home.com> Message-ID: Thanks for tip. Heavy becomes a problem shipping to WI. Or it would be one heck of a road trip! Take care Paul On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, ip500 wrote: > I've got a bunch of HP-3000 bits and pieces available. Several > tall [6'] racks full .. mainly card cages and PS's. HEAVY! Location is > Roanoke, VA. > Craig From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 10:27:48 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION References: <3AD715D8.9B5E68C4@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <005a01c0c42e$4c32a0e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, I've got one, though it has been hacked into non-functionality. I haven't got all the schematics, and the ones issued with the device were not complete to begin with. It was, indeed, a high-res graphics board, for the S-100, that had its own resident processor and responded to high-level commands for drawing and filling. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:06 AM Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION > Anyone ever heard of it or have one? I pretty sure it was a hi-res > graphics system (back in 1980) for S-100 systems. > > Eric > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 13 10:30:57 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Mac IIci machines available at CPB In-Reply-To: from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 13, 1 05:00:21 pm" Message-ID: <200104131530.IAA09438@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > IIRC, the LCIII is identical to the Performa 450 I've got. > I'd say performance is very similar, but the built-in video of the LCIII > is far more flexible, capoable of higher resolutions as well as being > VGA-friendly. Mind you, the IIci may be upgraded with a far more advanced > graphics card. Yeah, the IIci's internal video is somewhat anaemic but I stuck an 8*24*GC in my IIci workstation and the output now is beautiful 24-bit colour, fully accelerated in System 7.1. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. --------------- From bills at adrenaline.com Fri Apr 13 10:50:20 2001 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (looking for) In-Reply-To: <987174135.3ad714f7ae874@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people > are looking for.. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Anything Ohio Scientific or M/A-COM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (No surprise to most people on this list) A Teletype ASR-33 (high school nostalgia) From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 13 10:50:21 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Sellam's Hemmeroids In-Reply-To: <001101c0c2b6$9ab28100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Taken by itself, it wouldn't be annoying, but anyone who thinks so little about > what he posts that he has serious spelling/grammar/syntax errors in every post > needs to slow down and think before hitting the SEND button. And you, dear sir, should learn to quote and snip correctly. Preferably before your next message arrives at my inbox. [snip snip snip snip snip snip] From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Apr 13 10:51:36 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Vintage Computing Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413114552.08ebf008@mail.njd.concentric.com> Here's my collection of vintage computing equipment: Apple IIc (Qty: 2) Apple IIe (Bell & Howell) Apple IIgs Apple Mac 128K Apple Mac IIfx Apple Mac LC Apple Mac SE Apple Macintosh Portable Apple Newton H1000 Apple Newton MessagePad 110 Apple Newton MessagePad 110 Prototype Atari 400 Cardiac Paper Computer Coleco Adam Commodore C64 Data General Aviion Data General Nova III DEC Alphastation 255 DEC Computer Lab (Qty: 7) DEC CR11 Card Reader DEC LSI-11 DEC MINC-11 DEC PC11 Paper Tape Reader/Punch DEC PDP-11/05 (card set only) "DEC PDP-11/34 (TU10, 2xRK05)" DEC PDP-11/45 DEC PDP-11/73 (Qty: 2) "DEC PDP-11/83 (TU80, TK50)" DEC PDP-16 (RTM card set) DEC PDP-8/e (2xRX01) DEC PDP-8/m DEC Shark (Qty: 2) DEC TU55 DECtape DEC TU56 Dual DECtape DEC Vax 4000 VLC (Qty: 5) DEC VT05 DEC VT100 DEC VT40 DEC VT52 DECmate I DECmate II DECmate III DECsystem 2020 Everex Freestyle Heathkit H11 (2xRX01) HP 9810a HP 9825a (Qty: 2) HP 9825b (Qty: 2) HP-85 (Qty: 2) HP-86 Hyperion IBM 1131 IBM 5110 (BASIC only) IBM 5120 (BASIC/APL) IBM PCjr IMSAI 8080 Intel iPSC/1 Intel PDS Kaypro 2 Kaypro II (Qty: 4) Lego Mindstorm Minivac 601 Netpliance I-Opener NeXT ColorTurbo Slab NeXT Cube OP-80A Paper Tape Reader Osborne 1 Radio Shack Color Computer Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I Rockwell AIM-65 Sequent Symmetry Silicon Graphics Indy Sun SPARCstation 1 (Qty: 2) Sun SPARCstation 5 Symbolics 3620 Tektron Logic Lab Tektronix 4051 Teletype ASR-33 TI 59 USRobotics PalmPilot Vectrex Victor 9000 Xitan Z-80 Zymate II Robot Wish list: CADO Cat DEC GT-40 DEC Straight-8 DEC PDP-12 DEC PDT-11/150 DEC TC11 DECtape controller Heathkit H8 Heathkit EC-1 Heathkit Hero-series Robot IBM 5100 (Basic/APL w/Tape) SCM Marchant Cogito 240SR Xerox Alto Xerox D-class system Wang Labs had an integrated desktop system that ran BASIC and had a cassette tape for storage. I don't recall the model number and I haven't seen even a reference to one on the web, but I remember it from high school and I want one! From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 10:51:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Jerome Fine) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> Message-ID: <15063.8348.184573.469420@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > care about the RT-11 Operating System? I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. -Dave McGuire From dave at ruske.net Fri Apr 13 10:58:07 2001 From: dave at ruske.net (Dave Ruske) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions References: <008101c0c41e$573dba20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <000e01c0c433$9abda570$2277cfa9@druskersi> > Just wondering. How many Mhz or MIPS > do you need to display dancing hamsters? > > What's the best way to get this to work using only > a 7-segment LED for the display and telegraph sounder > for sound output? My boss wants > an estimate of how long it will take to implement > this with a 4 bit CPU for under $1. You can actually dispense with most of the hardware if you hook the power supply directly to the hamster. :D From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Fri Apr 13 11:17:58 2001 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (looking for) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ditto on the OSI software Call Bill.... I've ended up with both a C4P-MF and a C8P-DF but don't have bootable floppies for either...... Someday! George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people > > are looking for.. > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Anything Ohio Scientific or M/A-COM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > (No surprise to most people on this list) > > A Teletype ASR-33 (high school nostalgia) > > From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Apr 13 11:28:50 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <15063.8348.184573.469420@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things get? -- Tony At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > -Dave McGuire From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 11:36:59 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, ajp me wrote: > > No, Pics online. I have to get a camera for that or maybe borrow one. It would be interesting to line all of them > up and photograph them. > > Allison > Indeed. I have some machines I want to put up pics of here. All I have is an inexpensive Sony CCD camera that only does NTSC video, however. My TV tuner card has a capture function, but the camera has low resolution and limited dynamic range, and is not very well suited for detailed pictures of hardware, circuit boards, etc. I'm getting a better card, probably an ATI AIW, and I'm open to recoomendations on a better camera that isn't too expensive. I could go with a digital camera and a card reader, but I also have a security application here that requires video capture. jbdigriz From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Apr 13 11:36:27 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: <3AD4A3D2.1196.1FD8047@localhost> Message-ID: Hi David, What kind of stuff are you looking for? Mile High Flea market has general stuff, and you can usually find a few apple/pc/trs80 type systems there... There doesn't seem to be a lot of big iron floating around here, probably because colorado came into high tech fairly late in the game... clint On Wed, 11 Apr 2001, David Williams wrote: > I'm traveling up to Denver from Houston soon and wanted to see if > anyone knew of some places to check out for old systems while I > was there? What are the good thrift store chains there? Any other > places? > > Thanks. > > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Apr 13 12:03:22 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Arizona trip ( i.e. Classic missiles ) Message-ID: Classic Missiles My sister lives just down the road from several decommissioned Minuteman Silos, they are all over the middle of Missouri. Most are unmanned. The control center was at Knob Noster, Missouri, right down the road from Whiteman AFB the home of the B-2's. I've seen a few scared cows when a B-2 comes by on a low level run. They were going to blow up the Minuteman Silos but the neighbors complained about damage to the local water table because of waste oil, fluid leakage, lubricants and hydraulic fluid. They eventually demolished them and filled the holes with gravel. I think they wanted to make sure that the Russians didn't think we were going to secretly reactivate them. You could tell where they were by the little windsocks for the helicopter, the electric transformer on a pole and the fenced square with a gravel road leading to them. I've heard rumors that a few cattle had close encounters with the MP's when they walked through/over the fences looking for green grass. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 12:01:42 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: TI Minicomputer? (Was: large load (cont)) In-Reply-To: <987174412.3ad7160c1b195@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Ack! Pfft! Grrrr! I just found out that the "farmer's ravine" story > was a myth, and that the machine was sold to a guy a few towns away > to be scrapped. I still trying to find out what happened to the 99s. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu > I wonder if it was actually destroyed or not? (Yes, folks, I will hound something to the bitter, or not, end. Only way to find out.) jbdigriz From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Apr 13 12:12:39 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Vintage Computing Collection In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413114552.08ebf008@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413100020.00bbeef0@pacbell.net> At 11:51 AM 4/13/01 -0400, Tony Eros wrote: >Here's my collection of vintage computing equipment: >... >Wang Labs had an integrated desktop system that ran BASIC and had a >cassette tape for storage. I don't recall the model number and I haven't >seen even a reference to one on the web, but I remember it from high >school and I want one! It was probably a Wang 2200 PCS. The PCS-II was similar, except that it didn't have the integral cassette drive and instead had a pair of 5.25" floppies on top that were really ugly. It might have been one of the WCS models (WCS/10 or WCS/20) but I'm not very familiar with those to know how they were different from the PCS. I learned to program on a PCS with 8KB of RAM. It is my #1 wish list, and I've actively been looking for a couple of years. You can find some links on my nascent Wang web site at: http://www.thebattles.net/wang/wang.html In particular, there is a picture of a PCS-II here: http://www.gaby.de/ewang.htm Check out the two subordinate pages that I've written that compare Wang BASIC to MS BASIC and that lists which CPU models had which BASIC statements. I hope it brings back some memories for you -- it did for me! I have a fantasy of writing an emulator for the 2200, but I don't know if it will be practical without schematics, as the 2200 used a microcoded TTL CPU. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From vaxman at qwest.net Fri Apr 13 12:09:53 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: FA: Technology books - hurry! In-Reply-To: <3AD6FB70.CC629D05@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: Hi Eric, Please do not send EBay listings to the classiccmp mailing list. A small amount of selling is permitted (and even encouraged) on the list, but blatant advertisement (such as this) is not. Thanks, clint On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Programmer's Intro to IBM 360 Architecture, Instructions Set & Assembly > Language (Student Guide) > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228259937 > > > LSI11 PDP11/03 Processor Handbook - Digital > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228298783 > > > TTY 43 teleprinter Install and Service Guide > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228307198 > > > Harvard Symposium on Switching Theory 1957 -2 (rare) > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1422329175 > > > These end today! > > > > > From peter at joules.org Fri Apr 13 12:09:12 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: OT somewhat. China, our aircraft, delays. In-Reply-To: <026a01c0c3c0$f12f25f0$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Fred deBros wrote: > propeller of 16ft dia and 27000rpm > Shouldn't that be 2700? Otherwise the tips would be travelling at Mach 10 ;-) -- Regards Pete From claudew at videotron.ca Fri Apr 13 12:22:11 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: <20010413020207.11184@mail.lafayette.edu> Message-ID: <00ad01c0c43e$467282a0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Ok here is mine....the biggest one in Quebec for all I know...(is size important here?) I try to just collect "home micros" the stuff I grew up with... ALL working, cleaned, on "display" shelves and ready to setup and boot in minutes... I dont collect x86 types unless they are CRT portables and such or have something "special".... Probably missing a few here, inventory due... Apple: Apple II+ Apple IIe Apple IIe Platinum Apple IIc Apple IIgs Apple IIgs Woz ed Apple Clones (I dont collect these, usually give/trade these away) Microcom Macs 128K 512K Plus SE SE FDHD SE30 Classic Classic II Color Classic II IIci IIsi (Several others more recent...) Atari 400 800 600xl 800xl 520st 1040st Mega ST-2 (with that SH204 HD....) R-S Model IVP Model III Model 100 Model 102 Model 2000 Coco Coco II Coco III MC-10 Commodore Vic-20 C64 (3 versions IIRC) Plus/4 16 C128 Amiga 500 Amiga 1000 TI Ti994a Ti994a (beige vers.) IBM Pc.Jr 5155 (portable XT) Sinclair 1000 Mattel Aquarius ECS (for Intellivision) Thompson MO-5 HP Hp-85 Dynalogic Hyperion Coleco Adam Amstrad PPC512 Compaq Portable II AES 7100 Others Sparc2, DEC Station 5000/200, RS6000 320H Power Server Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 12:26:59 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> There were a couple of video capture systems for the PDP-11 series, at USC in the image processing lab we built one that digitized a monochrome camera signal. It worked ok, but even better was the Micron drum scanner (boy I wish I had that puppy hooked up to my 11/34!) You can of course get a cheap digital camera (about $500 will get you one that does 80% of what you need) or you can spend $49 on a scanner and using a regular process camera get nice high resolution pictures of your equipment. Further you can hook some scanners up to classic computers to keep it "all in the family" so to speak, take pictures on a classic camera (I love the Leica) and be even better. --Chuck At 12:36 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, anonymous wrote: >Indeed. I have some machines I want to put up pics of here. All I have is >an inexpensive Sony CCD camera that only does NTSC video, however. My TV >tuner card has a capture function, but the camera has low resolution >and limited dynamic range, and is not very well suited for >detailed pictures of hardware, circuit boards, etc. > >I'm getting a better card, probably an ATI AIW, and I'm open to >recoomendations on a better camera that isn't too expensive. I could go >with a digital camera and a card reader, but I also have a security >application here that requires video capture. > >jbdigriz From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Apr 13 12:30:52 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Newbie dancing hamsters questions Message-ID: I think the idea is that you dress up like a hamster and dance when you are shocked. :) Prepayment is usually required in some fermented beverage. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Apr 13 12:40:58 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Vintage Computing Collection In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413100020.00bbeef0@pacbell.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413114552.08ebf008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413133944.00ae84b0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Jim - Are you _sure_ you don't already have a PCS? Maybe it's tucked away behind Woz and the shrinkwrapped Cray :-) -- Tony At 10:12 AM 4/13/2001 -0700, you wrote: >At 11:51 AM 4/13/01 -0400, Tony Eros wrote: >>Here's my collection of vintage computing equipment: >>... >>Wang Labs had an integrated desktop system that ran BASIC and had a >>cassette tape for storage. I don't recall the model number and I haven't >>seen even a reference to one on the web, but I remember it from high >>school and I want one! > >It was probably a Wang 2200 PCS. The PCS-II was similar, except that it >didn't have the integral cassette drive and instead had a pair of 5.25" >floppies on top that were really ugly. It might have been one of the WCS >models (WCS/10 or WCS/20) but I'm not very familiar with those to know how >they were different from the PCS. > >I learned to program on a PCS with 8KB of RAM. It is my #1 wish list, and >I've actively been looking for a couple of years. > >You can find some links on my nascent Wang web site at: > > http://www.thebattles.net/wang/wang.html > >In particular, there is a picture of a PCS-II here: > > http://www.gaby.de/ewang.htm > >Check out the two subordinate pages that I've written that compare Wang >BASIC to MS BASIC and that lists which CPU models had which BASIC >statements. I hope it brings back some memories for you -- it did for me! > >I have a fantasy of writing an emulator for the 2200, but I don't know if >it will be practical without schematics, as the 2200 used a microcoded TTL CPU. > >----- >Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 12:57:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> <5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >keep it "all in the family" so to speak, take pictures on a classic >camera (I love the Leica) and be even better. I've got a nice medium format Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex 1a. It takes absolutely beautiful pictures in bright sunlight. Too bad rolls of 120 film are getting more difficult to locate, especially in color. The last time I shot with it I could only locate B/W film locally. My normal-use camera, a Canon A-1, falls well within the 10year rule for the list, though you'd be hard pressed to call it's exposure system a general purpose computer. The Ikoflex was manufactured in the mid-50's. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 13:07:15 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: SEMI-OT:Trainers, eval, and prototyping kits Message-ID: My college course in electronic instrumentation had a lab section that used an E&L Instruments ADD 8000 for the experiments. I always wanted to get hold of one for my own use. I felt like the one I used was mine, anyway. They came in kit form, and since we were the first class, we had to assemble them. They were quite unaffordable by a poor student at the time, though. Anybody else familiar with this prototyping system or run across one anywhere? jbdigriz From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 13:09:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Vintage Computing Collection In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010413133944.00ae84b0@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413100020.00bbeef0@pacbell.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413114552.08ebf008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413105432.02671e90@208.226.86.10> For some reason I've stuck with a bunch of DEC stuff, and mostly q-bus. (boring I know but fun to hack on) Da House: MicroVAX II/GPX (BA123) MicroVAX II (BA23/Pedestal) VAXStation 3200 (BA23/Pedestal) MicroVAX II (Dual BA23 Rack) MicroVAX 3800 (BA213) MicroVAX 3800 (BA213, with a MicroVAX 3400 cover) VAXServer 3400 (BA213) MicroVAX 3400 (BA213) MicroVAX 3600 (H9644, missing RA81) VAX 4000/200 (BA215 w/ R215 expansion) VAX 4000/200 (BA400 short rack) VAX 4000/200 (BA400 pedestal) VAX 4000/300 (BA440, pedestal) VAX 4000/700A (BA440, pedestal) VAXStation 3100/M38 (BA42) VAXStation 3100/M76 (BA42, x2) VAX 4000/VLC (BA10, x6) VAX 4000/60 (BA??) VAX 4000/90 (BA??) MIPS DECStation 5000/240 DECStation 3100 DECSystem 5500 (BA213) PDP-11 PDP-11/34a Industrial (RL11 + RLO2) PDP-11/34a Corporatate (TU60 + parallel I/O) PDP-11/23 (BA23, RX02, RL02, corporate rack) PDP-11/73 (in a 11/23 chassis :-) PDP-11/02 (BA23) PDP-8 PDP-8/e 4K, short box PDP-8/f 24K, long box (8/e box really, with FPU) PDP-8/m (two of these, both short box) I'm in the process of putting together and 'blueprinting' my VAXen so that I can store them more efficiently with all their components. The MIPS stuff is available for trade but the 5500 may be spoken for. --Chuck From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Apr 13 13:10:01 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: <3AD6F9E2.63A1B20E@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010413181001.92255.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > Thanks for the info. I think I have an old ST225 around someplace. > > Eric You'll need a Western Digital WX-1 or similar to throw in there. The Colt has an 8-bit IDE port (there were a few 20Mb and 40Mb drives to that standard - look for "X" at the end of the Seagate/Western Digital part number (as opposed to A for IDE or S or N for SCSI)) If you _have_ an 80-bit MFM controller, it's probably easier to find an MFM drive. I don't recall if there's room for a 5.25" hard disk in the box if you have two floppies - the XT-IDE drives are all 3.5" After getting through all of _that_, it'll be a decent little XT for you. I think it's T for Turbo mode and S for regular (slow) mode. The machine will beep at different frequencies, using a CPU delay loop, to indicate which speed it's at. Enjoy, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 13 13:11:26 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Collection list (looking for) In-Reply-To: References: <987174135.3ad714f7ae874@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413130233.01eb4320@pc> At 11:50 AM 4/13/01 -0400, Bill Sudbrink wrote: >> Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people >> are looking for.. >A Teletype ASR-33 (high school nostalgia) As I've probably repeated several times on this list, the radio teletype (RTTY) ham community looks down their nose at the comparatively light-duty ASR-33. They much prefer to collect the commercial- and military-grade teletypes. If you know any old ham radio enthusiasts, ask them for old ASR-33s. - John From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 13:39:35 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Tony Eros) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. -Dave McGuire On April 13, Tony Eros wrote: > You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things get? > > -- Tony > > At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > > > > -Dave McGuire From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Apr 13 13:41:17 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> Message-ID: <20010413184117.37074.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jerome Fine wrote: > >Marian Capel wrote: > > > PDP8/F with TU56 and DSD440 > > PDP8/A with TU56 and RL01 > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Also I am really surprised that DEC made an RL01 controller for the PDP8. The RL8A. I got one back in college because I couldn't find an RK8E for even twice the price, and RL01 drives were going for <$100 (plus shipping, natch). It maps the 5Mb disk to two primary virtual devices and to a third, smaller, slower virtual device. There is also an RL02 handler which maps the 10Mb to, I think, five virtual devices, but I've never run it. There is also an optional RL02 controller for the DECmate I, but I've never seen it. My DECmate has the floppy controller and a single cable (DC37->DB25), but there is a Y cable that will let you run two sets of RX02 drives. You can even fit both sets in the DECmate pedestal, but I've never bothered to try. I have a couple of table-top RX02 enclosures that do nicely. > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > care about the RT-11 Operating System? Not lately, but I used to. I never tinkered much with the OS, just wrote some stuff in MACRO and played the games. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 13:44:02 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Chuck McManis wrote: > There were a couple of video capture systems for the PDP-11 series, at USC > in the image processing lab we built one that digitized a monochrome camera > signal. It worked ok, but even better was the Micron drum scanner (boy I > wish I had that puppy hooked up to my 11/34!) > > You can of course get a cheap digital camera (about $500 will get you one > that does 80% of what you need) or you can spend $49 on a scanner and using > a regular process camera get nice high resolution pictures of your > equipment. Further you can hook some scanners up to classic computers to > keep it "all in the family" so to speak, take pictures on a classic camera > (I love the Leica) and be even better. > > --Chuck > Yes, somehow I trust chemistry over bits, myself. I have, for instance gotten some extremely detailed scans of reasonably flat circuit boards by placing them directly on a flatbed scanner. It doesn't pay to dwell on the philosophical ramifications of the resulting "picture", though. I second the rest of your sentiments as well, and will get a SCSI scanner with a transparency adapter at some point. I got this Acer 620U mainly to test out USB under Linux. It was inexpensive and good quality as well. There were some patches I had to apply to get SANE working with it, and you have to get a separate firmware uploader for Linux that somebody has posted on the net, but it works extremely well. jbdigriz From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 13:42:54 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming In-Reply-To: 1702A EPROM Programming (Glenn Roberts) References: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> Message-ID: <15063.18606.64903.745493@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, Glenn Roberts wrote: > I've been working with someone who has an old 8080-based single board > computer he's trying to get to work. We're investigating several > possible problems but it's starting to look like there's a problem with > the EPROM. I have the ROM code he needs and will be checking out the > EPROMS, but we may be faced with a need to reprogram one or both of > these. They're the old 256 byte 1702A Intel chips (ceramic). I've only > programmed the 27xx series but have read that the 1702's are "really > difficult" to program. Was wondering if folks in this group could > comment on how to proceed if/when we decide we need to reprogram one of > these. Are there more modern plug compatible alternatives? We may also > need to replace one or both - any sources known other than eBay? > thanks. Wow...the 1702A required a -47V programming pulse, as I recall. Eeeek! -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 13:45:18 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:16 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: <20010413181001.92255.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010413181001.92255.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >You'll need a Western Digital WX-1 or similar to throw in there. The Colt >has an 8-bit IDE port (there were a few 20Mb and 40Mb drives to that >standard - look for "X" at the end of the Seagate/Western Digital part number >(as opposed to A for IDE or S or N for SCSI)) As far as I know, the 8bit IDE drives maxed out at 40meg, with the Seagate drives jumper changable between 8 and 16bit interfaces. They should be the same drives as used by Tandy as their 'Smartdrive' for the Tandy 1000 series that had 8bit IDE built in, such as the TL/2 and SL/2 and above. I personally always preferred the Seagate ST-351A/X out of the four drives available (20 and 40meg from each WD and Seagate). Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 13:00:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <003c01c0c3b0$a0f2c8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 12, 1 06:28:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 979 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/cdd4273b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 13:05:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD68E7C.C389D79A@southwind.net> from "Joel Ewy" at Apr 13, 1 00:28:29 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/4fea6c5b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 13:12:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming In-Reply-To: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> from "Glenn Roberts" at Apr 13, 1 07:13:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/d10553b8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 13:17:25 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 13, 1 03:49:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2032 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/12dd828c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 13:43:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: <01be01c0c3a8$e7f21d20$79731fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Apr 12, 1 06:32:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1649 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/f6243de0/attachment.ksh From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Apr 13 13:51:31 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca><3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com><5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: That's SUPER Impressive. What do you take pictures of? I'm always hoping to find one of those at U of M property depot, but the closest I've seen is a fetal ultrasound machine :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: Re: My Collection > > I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. > They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. > SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. > > -Dave McGuire > > On April 13, Tony Eros wrote: > > You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things get? > > > > -- Tony > > > > At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > > > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > > >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 13 13:51:14 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413134952.01ebf100@pc> At 02:39 PM 4/13/01 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote: > I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. >They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. >SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. Isn't it a bit finicky when it comes to vacuum pumps, cryogenics, etc.? After hanging out on the microscopy list, I get the impression that even though people seem to be giving away old electron microscopes as often as people give away old mainframes, they'd be a bit hard to maintain for home use. - John From elvey at hal.com Fri Apr 13 13:53:52 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming In-Reply-To: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> Message-ID: <200104131853.f3DIrrb01016@civic.hal.com> Glenn Roberts wrote: > I've been working with someone who has an old 8080-based single board > computer he's trying to get to work. We're investigating several > possible problems but it's starting to look like there's a problem with > the EPROM. I have the ROM code he needs and will be checking out the > EPROMS, but we may be faced with a need to reprogram one or both of > these. They're the old 256 byte 1702A Intel chips (ceramic). I've only > programmed the 27xx series but have read that the 1702's are "really > difficult" to program. Was wondering if folks in this group could > comment on how to proceed if/when we decide we need to reprogram one of > these. Are there more modern plug compatible alternatives? We may also > need to replace one or both - any sources known other than eBay? > thanks. Hi Glenn I can program 1702A's and with some notice, on time, I can reconfigure to do 1702's but these are so rare I haven't dealt with them. For small quantities, if you send PROMs with return postage, I'll program them for free ( not more than 10 PROMs ). I can also get schematics for a programmer that can be put together with a number of parts ( mostly discrete transistors ) that can be run from most any uP with a number of I/O ports ( from an original Intel App note ). The files should be on DOS format files and can be S, HEX or BPNF formats. Other formats will take me some effort to make a converter. Don't send known blown parts. I don't want to be your test for parts. I can't be responsible for parts that may fail while programming but they will be programmed on an Intel build programming card, that is know to work. Let me know. Dwight From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 13:55:49 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <383839840.987188149160.JavaMail.root@web312-wrb> The F8 is one I skipped over by choice. I do have basic data on it though. The 8080/8085/z80/z180/z280 and Z800x are machines I'm also familiar with. The only SBC in the 8080 family is the STP cards from VT100s I have gobs of them and they make handy little controllers. Other chips level cpus I've played with include the 8008, 8048/8049 family, 8051, DEC T-11, NSC800, NEC D78xx series, many of the 4bit machines other than intel's. Allison ------Original Message------ From: Eric Chomko To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 13, 2001 2:53:27 PM GMT Subject: Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) ajp me wrote: > For me to build it as a class project I'd have been the professor. I'd been out of school for a while by then. > No, I wanted a 9900 based machine to see what was on the non intel track back then. My 9900, ELF, 6800d1 and SC/MP all came from that effort back then. I've had them since before 1979. > Whoa! The class I took in microcomputers (two actually) was once a week at 7:00pm. I was a regular full-time day student at that time. However, the class was populated with many over 30 types and in one class the Prof. was about 60 and the other class the Prof was 28! Interesting group of machines. Did the F8 have an eval kit?, as you mention the Ti-9900, RCA 1802, Mot 6800, and National's "Scamp". Fairchild's F8 seems to be the ONLY one you missed barring 6502 and Z-80, which became very popular anyway. I think I have the spec books for most of the chips you list above. Eric > > Allison > > ------Original Message------ > From: Eric Chomko > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 13, 2001 4:07:02 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) > > Did you build it for a class project? Techinco was based out of Columbia, MD. > > Eric > > ajp166 wrote: > > > From: James B. DiGriz > > > > >On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> A company called 'Technico' put out a TI 9900-based single board mirco > > back in > > >> the > > >> late 70s before TI had the 99/4. I rememebr building one for a class > > project in > > >> college. In fact, I got one in the attic that I need to frag out of of > > these days > > > > I have one and it's operational. Bought is back in '77. > > > > Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 13:55:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Apr 13, 1 01:57:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1626 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/1294701a/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 13 14:02:31 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: <20010413181001.92255.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I probably have a suitable WDC or Seagate somewhere around here for it but have to check. I know I have a ton of Seagate ST-3250A's but have to see what I have in the XT line - may even have a box full of working Minscribe's somewhere in storage, although finding an 80 might be a chance in a million. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:10 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) > > > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > Thanks for the info. I think I have an old ST225 around someplace. > > > > Eric > > You'll need a Western Digital WX-1 or similar to throw in there. The Colt > has an 8-bit IDE port (there were a few 20Mb and 40Mb drives to that > standard - look for "X" at the end of the Seagate/Western Digital > part number > (as opposed to A for IDE or S or N for SCSI)) > > If you _have_ an 80-bit MFM controller, it's probably easier to > find an MFM > drive. I don't recall if there's room for a 5.25" hard disk in the box if > you have two floppies - the XT-IDE drives are all 3.5" > > After getting through all of _that_, it'll be a decent little XT for you. > I think it's T for Turbo mode and S for > regular (slow) > mode. The machine will beep at different frequencies, using a > CPU delay loop, > to indicate which speed it's at. > > Enjoy, > > -ethan > > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 14:00:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: SETCOLOR info found In-Reply-To: References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb> <5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I was doing some reorganizing of my computer room (an ongiong project!) and I came across a note stuck inside of a box of disks, which I hadn't noticed before. One of my TRS-80 Model 2000's came from MISOSYS owner Roy Soltoff after it had sat around for a number of years after he didn't enter the Model 2000 market. He had bought if for a development system. Anyway, the note is from a John Harrell offering him a utility for the machine called SETCOLOR. He states that he had offered it to 80-Micro but that they weren't interested in it since they didn't have an interest in the MS-DOS world. He also gives considerable info on how the utility works. Basically it patches the IO.SYS file so that programs display a system-wide choice of colors for foreground, background, and high intensity versions of both. It's dated 29 March 1985. The disk was stuck behind my MIX-C and ED/ASM-86 disks. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 13 14:10:43 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Arizona trip ( i.e. Classic missiles ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I totally forgot about Whiteman AFB in Knob Noster, which shows that I've been out too long (since 95) since I was involved with some of the B2 setup that went on there while I was stationed in Wichita. They were able to leave the sites untouched back then as long as the inspection teams did a full walk through to see that the booster/payload had been removed and that certain assets/equipment had been removed or made inoperable. I found that they did what you mention here both at Whiteman and some other touchy sites with either fill, concrete or other non-exposive means for environmental reasons. In some areas the original owner that the land reverts back to has the option of demanding that the site be completely destroyed or sealed to prevent any possibility of future liability from trespassers reopening the site. I know just before the big Y2K scare there were a lot of whacko groups desparate to locate and purchase old underground complexes for when the "end of the world" came. Some of them were able to acquire old underground munitions storage buildings and even some old alert buildings that are hardened against attack but the nuclear assets were all off limits for purchase as far as I heard. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of McFadden, Mike > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:03 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: Re: Arizona trip ( i.e. Classic missiles ) > > > Classic Missiles > My sister lives just down the road from several decommissioned Minuteman > Silos, they are all over the middle of Missouri. Most are unmanned. The > control center was at Knob Noster, Missouri, right down the road from > Whiteman AFB the home of the B-2's. I've seen a few scared cows > when a B-2 > comes by on a low level run. They were going to blow up the > Minuteman Silos > but the neighbors complained about damage to the local water table because > of waste oil, fluid leakage, lubricants and hydraulic fluid. They > eventually demolished them and filled the holes with gravel. I think they > wanted to make sure that the Russians didn't think we were going > to secretly > reactivate them. You could tell where they were by the little > windsocks for > the helicopter, the electric transformer on a pole and the fenced square > with a gravel road leading to them. I've heard rumors that a few > cattle had > close encounters with the MP's when they walked through/over the fences > looking for green grass. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 13 14:07:27 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413135923.01e84780@pc> At 07:17 PM 4/13/01 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >Oh, brilliant... Many serial printers (Epson, etc) have the busy line on >pin 11. So plug that into an Amiga serial port with a straight-through >cable and you'll cook something in the sound circuitry. Yes, and back in the day, I seem to remember that Amigans did. The custom cable-making companies also did brisk business, due to the odd serial port and video ports of the Amiga. I also remember conflicts with scanners, where people would mistakenly plug it into the parallel port when it belonged on a SCSI port connector. - John From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 13 14:11:58 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Zdnn article... Message-ID: <200104131911.PAA11579@wordstock.com> Check out this article on Zdnn: Computer junk: It's piling up 9:30 AM PT As the number of used machines take up space, computer makers are trying to set up an industrywide scheme to promote recycling before we're buried up to our necks in desktops. Suggestions? http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2707896,00.html The are so many *USEFUL* things that could be done with this computer equipment. They don't go into that here. Like http://www.newdealinc.com Bryan From rhblake at bigfoot.com Fri Apr 13 14:15:29 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's the drive number I was attempting to pull out of my mental rump and I may probably have one around here as I bought a bunch of them new at one time for rebuild use and probably have one or two still around. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:45 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) > > > >You'll need a Western Digital WX-1 or similar to throw in there. > The Colt > >has an 8-bit IDE port (there were a few 20Mb and 40Mb drives to that > >standard - look for "X" at the end of the Seagate/Western > Digital part number > >(as opposed to A for IDE or S or N for SCSI)) > > As far as I know, the 8bit IDE drives maxed out at 40meg, > with the Seagate drives jumper changable between 8 and 16bit > interfaces. They should be the same drives as used by Tandy as their > 'Smartdrive' for the Tandy 1000 series that had 8bit IDE built in, > such as the TL/2 and SL/2 and above. I personally always preferred > the Seagate ST-351A/X out of the four drives available (20 and 40meg > from each WD and Seagate). > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 14:21:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Nice... Old cameras are so much more 'solid' feeling than the modern >ones. And they take darn good photographs :-). The optics on the Ikoflex are very nice as well...this one has the Tessar 75mm 1:3.5 taking lens. I'd love to find the leather case for it. Another cool thing is that the ASA chart printed on the viewfinder hood is done in German. >Actually, thinking about it, I have a classic _digital_ camera. It's in >no sense portable, though. It's a box containing a linear CCD and a >motor/leadscrew to move it across the image. And some driver electronics. >There's bayonet mount for a Nikon-type lens on the front and a DB25 on >the back. That connects to a PERQ (!), with a special interface card in >it. I am sure it must be at least 10 years old... That sounds interesting...I'd think the resolution would leave a bit to be desired though. It certainly sounds cool. >Over here, 120 film is still used professionally. The high-street camera >shops don't stock it, of course, but there are plenty of places where you >can get it. I would imagine that 120 roll film is more available up here in the Washington D.C. area as well. Certainly more places to check. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 13 14:26:47 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> Message-ID: >>Marian Capel wrote: > >> PDP8/F with TU56 and DSD440 >> PDP8/A with TU56 and RL01 >> VT100, hacked about to contain an 11/23, with external ST412, runs RX11. >> Anybody has some RT11 manuals available. >> Jos Dreesen > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Interesting collection. I had not realized that DSD made a controller for the >PDP8, just for the PDP-11. Also I am really surprised that DEC made >an RL01 controller for the PDP8. They only made a controller for the PDP-8/a though, and it won't fit in earlier models :^( >AS for your VT100, it sounds like you might have a VT103 which was a >>standard DEC product. Does it use a dual 11/23 but have added a 3rd >party MFM controller with its own boot ROM or are you using a quad 11/23 >>and an RQDX1? Actually he might have something that's totally third party. I've got a VT100 that someone hacked into a close aproximation of a VT103. Actually I've been thinking of digging it out of storage and getting it running as I'm wanting to have a VT100 here at the apartment (or may just dig out a plain one, would partially depend on what I can get to in storage). >By the way, all this was running RT-11/TSX-PLUS. I have a friend who >may be getting rid of his PDP-11 systems and there are probably some >RT-11 manuals. But they are heavy. The shipping would be expensive. >And he may want some payment, especially for the SCSI host adapter - >Peter Turnbull are you interested? Actually for a system with Doc's, especially if it also includes software, I personally think shipping is a worthwhile expense. >Also, I am not surprised, but no one seems to consider software as part >of their collection. Is it because they are mostly copies that have been >"acquired" or because software is not really considered collectable by >most list participants? From my point of view, the software is far more I'm guessing that it's either becuase they don't want to admit having it, or people are simply considering it part of the package. >important since eventually (100 years?, 200 years?) the hardware will >not be able to be repaired, but the software should always be able to >run under an emulator. For the PDP-11, I use the emulator 90% of >the time at this point since I don't need to switch systems plus the emulator >runs 3 times as fast as the actual DEC 11/83 hardware even under a >Pentium 166 MMX. When I finally upgrade the PC to a 1 GHz system >in a few years (assuming that I can still run W95/W98), the difference >will be even greater. Recently I went on a trip with my wife and we took her laptop and I had E11 on it and a fullsized keyboard. While I like running on the real hardware I've got to admit that it was nice to >Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? >Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone >care about the RT-11 Operating System? Yes, I'm still running it, in fact I had it up last Sunday. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 14:38:45 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Jason McBrien) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. -Dave McGuire On April 13, Jason McBrien wrote: > That's SUPER Impressive. What do you take pictures of? I'm always hoping to > find one of those at U of M property depot, but the closest I've seen is a > fetal ultrasound machine :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave McGuire" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:39 PM > Subject: Re: My Collection > > > > > > I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. > > They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. > > SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > On April 13, Tony Eros wrote: > > > You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things > get? > > > > > > -- Tony > > > > > > At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > > >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > > > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > > > > > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > > >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > > > >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Apr 13 14:42:27 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: SETCOLOR info found References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb><5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <050901c0c451$e21fbde0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> John Harrell was a prolific writer/programmer who published most of his work in 80 Micro. His stuff was always top-notch. I don't recall SETCOLOR. 80 Micro did eventually cover the Tandy 1000/2000, so he must have submitted the program shortly after the 2000's release. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: SETCOLOR info found > I was doing some reorganizing of my computer room (an ongiong > project!) and I came across a note stuck inside of a box of disks, > which I hadn't noticed before. One of my TRS-80 Model 2000's came > from MISOSYS owner Roy Soltoff after it had sat around for a number > of years after he didn't enter the Model 2000 market. He had bought > if for a development system. Anyway, the note is from a John Harrell > offering him a utility for the machine called SETCOLOR. He states > that he had offered it to 80-Micro but that they weren't interested > in it since they didn't have an interest in the MS-DOS world. He > also gives considerable info on how the utility works. Basically it > patches the IO.SYS file so that programs display a system-wide choice > of colors for foreground, background, and high intensity versions of > both. It's dated 29 March 1985. The disk was stuck behind my MIX-C > and ED/ASM-86 disks. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 14:42:57 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (John Foust) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010413134952.01ebf100@pc> Message-ID: <15063.22209.754507.474173@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, John Foust wrote: > Isn't it a bit finicky when it comes to vacuum pumps, > cryogenics, etc.? After hanging out on the microscopy list, > I get the impression that even though people seem to be > giving away old electron microscopes as often as people > give away old mainframes, they'd be a bit hard to > maintain for home use. Not at all. Cryo setups are almost never really needed, unless you're running a cold trap on your vacuum system or an Xray detector. And there's nothing finicky about vacuum pumps...get a decent one, turn it on, and it just works. I'd say taht, for the adventurous hobbyist, an SEM at home is a very doable thing. I've had mine for about a year and have learned a great deal and had a huge amount of fun. What microscopy list are you talking about? Sounds like something I ought to be on. -Dave McGuire From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Apr 13 14:49:18 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection Message-ID: <20010413.144919.-273265.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Dave McGuire writes: > On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the > electron > microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > -Dave McGuire ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 15:01:53 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <383839840.987188149160.JavaMail.root@web312-wrb> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, ajp me wrote: > The F8 is one I skipped over by choice. I do have basic data on it though. The 8080/8085/z80/z180/z280 and Z800x are machines I'm also familiar with. The only SBC in the 8080 family is the STP cards from VT100s I have gobs of them and they make handy little controllers. Other chips level cpus I've played with include the 8008, 8048/8049 family, 8051, DEC T-11, NSC800, NEC D78xx series, many of the 4bit machines other than intel's. > > Allison > As I mentioned, I was an impoverished student in that time frame. Nevertheless, I spent a small fortune on books on these kinds of processors, and computers and programming languages and such. (Not to mention SF, hot rod periodicals, underground comix, National Lampoon, and girlie mags). I gave away some of the hot rod stuff to a friend who was restoring an old Fairlane, but I still have the rest of it. Well some of the girlie mags are hors de combat, lost in a skirmish with Mothers of America militia patrol. Wish now I had spent a lot more on actual hardware, though. I envy your collection. jbdigriz From peter at joules.org Fri Apr 13 15:34:25 2001 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > That's amazing. I take it that the crystals had grown on the filament during the life of the bulb had they? Does anyone know the mechanisn for this? -- Regards Pete From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 15:22:53 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >keep it "all in the family" so to speak, take pictures on a classic > >camera (I love the Leica) and be even better. > > I've got a nice medium format Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex 1a. It > takes absolutely beautiful pictures in bright sunlight. Too bad > rolls of 120 film are getting more difficult to locate, especially in > color. The last time I shot with it I could only locate B/W film > locally. My normal-use camera, a Canon A-1, falls well within the > 10year rule for the list, though you'd be hard pressed to call it's > exposure system a general purpose computer. The Ikoflex was > manufactured in the mid-50's. > > Jeff > I never was much of a shutterbug, but I'm seeing a need now. I'll trundle off to do some research on cameras instead of cluttering up the list further. Thanks everyone for the input. jbdigriz From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 15:21:25 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Peter Joules) References: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15063.24517.324297.282578@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, Peter Joules wrote: > > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > That's amazing. I take it that the crystals had grown on the filament > during the life of the bulb had they? Does anyone know the mechanisn for > this? It is my understanding that those crystals grew during the "flameout" of the filament. I spent a solid six hours one night going over that filament. I wish Polaroid 550PN film wasn't so damn expensive. I need to build a digital imager for my microscope. -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 13 15:23:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Apr 13, 2001 03:38:45 PM Message-ID: <200104132023.NAA24883@shell1.aracnet.com> > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) > > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. > But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that > scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp > filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. Have you tried Minerals? They're amazing under an electron microscope! BTW, part of my PDP-11 equipment is off of a Cameca Microprobe. The PDP-11 was running RSX-11M. I still haven't gotten around to trying to use the Q-Bus video card that I got with that haul. Zane From root at diablonet.net Fri Apr 13 15:31:28 2001 From: root at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: TI DS990 Documentation Message-ID: <3AD7621F.77348B73@diablonet.net> Just to let everyone know, I've been watching the conversation on the list the past few days regarding the TI 990 series of minicomputer systems, and as a result of what appears to be widespread demand, I've begun scanning a number of documents (datasheets, mostly, but also two bound volumes) regarding the TI 990 systems. These are primarily datasheets that my father recieved around twenty years ago when he was purchasing and using these systems as Chrysler Corporation. I think they've been sitting in the basement ever since. They're in pretty good condition, and they make interesting reading. I've got a small page set up as a jumping-off point for accessing datasheets about various models of equipment available at the following URL: http://www.diablonet.net/museum/ds990.html Please excuse my asthetics; some people say it's slightly hard to read. To jump right into the documentation directories, you can just go here: http://www.diablonet.net/museum/ti990 I hope someone out there finds these useful, or at least marginallly interesting! --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From pbboy at mindspring.com Fri Apr 13 15:32:48 2001 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.24517.324297.282578@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD76270.E110188D@mindspring.com> What is the magnification? Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 13, Peter Joules wrote: > > > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > > > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > > > That's amazing. I take it that the crystals had grown on the filament > > during the life of the bulb had they? Does anyone know the mechanisn for > > this? > > It is my understanding that those crystals grew during the > "flameout" of the filament. > > I spent a solid six hours one night going over that filament. I > wish Polaroid 550PN film wasn't so damn expensive. I need to build a > digital imager for my microscope. > > -Dave McGuire From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 13 16:03:34 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Places in Denver Message-ID: I guess if the early 1970's counts as fairly late, anyway... I can't speak for the 60's, but in the early 70's Samsonite (yes, the suitcase people) had a plant in Englewood making an 18 bit minicomputer. They called the company Electronic Processors, Inc. Colorado is more of a semiconductor fabrication area, really... Though I'm sure most people on this list will recognize Otrona... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Apr 13 16:11:42 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: spurious post Message-ID: <20010413.161142.-586025.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Sorry about that. Pressed the button just as the net was going down :( ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 16:18:48 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Robert) References: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.24517.324297.282578@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AD76270.E110188D@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <15063.27960.144352.583142@phaduka.neurotica.com> The microscope has a maximum magnification of about 150,000X. -Dave McGuire On April 13, Robert wrote: > What is the magnification? > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On April 13, Peter Joules wrote: > > > > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > > > > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > > > > > That's amazing. I take it that the crystals had grown on the filament > > > during the life of the bulb had they? Does anyone know the mechanisn for > > > this? > > > > It is my understanding that those crystals grew during the > > "flameout" of the filament. > > > > I spent a solid six hours one night going over that filament. I > > wish Polaroid 550PN film wasn't so damn expensive. I need to build a > > digital imager for my microscope. > > > > -Dave McGuire From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 16:22:36 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: TI DS990 Documentation In-Reply-To: <3AD7621F.77348B73@diablonet.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Netdiablo wrote: > > http://www.diablonet.net/museum/ti990 > > I hope someone out there finds these useful, or at least marginallly > interesting! > May the god(s) of your choice smile upon you. Thanks. jbdigriz From ewy at southwind.net Fri Apr 13 16:42:47 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <10104130843.ZM17242@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3AD772D7.156685CF@southwind.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 10, 19:13, THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > I'd like to see some of your lists. > > I may as well join in. ... > Sage II > ... Sage II -- I wonder if that's the same Sage that I'm aware of. We had one where I went to college, and a friend of mine, who really needs to be on this list, ended up with it when it stopped working and was deemed unworthy to be repaired. It had an MC68000 and ran it's own proprietary operating system, as far as I can remember, and a Pascal P system. I remember that it used some kind of 80 track 5.25" floppy drives and there was this game on it called "Kings & Castles." It was just a little metal box with text terminals hooked up to it, I believe. Every now and then my friend and I talk about trying to get the thing to run again so we can play that game. -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@NOSPAMLAND_southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 16:42:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: SETCOLOR info found In-Reply-To: <050901c0c451$e21fbde0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb><5.0.0.25.2.2001041310223 4.019920e0@208.226.86.10> <050901c0c451$e21fbde0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: I recall seeing the odd reference to the 2000, much more on the 1000, in the later 80 Micro's. I may even have a couple of issues left around here from the late 80's when I was reading both it and PCM regularly. John's letter shows him as a Lt. Commander, USN at the time living up here in D.C. Jeff >John Harrell was a prolific writer/programmer who published most of his work >in 80 Micro. His stuff was always top-notch. I don't recall SETCOLOR. 80 >Micro did eventually cover the Tandy 1000/2000, so he must have submitted >the program shortly after the 2000's release. > >--Mike > >Michael Nadeau >Editorial Services >603-893-2379 -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 16:55:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: <3AD772D7.156685CF@southwind.net> from "Joel Ewy" at Apr 13, 1 04:42:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/30d4b958/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Fri Apr 13 17:02:31 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Sage II, was : Re: Collection list (just for phun) and wants References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <10104130843.ZM17242@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AD772D7.156685CF@southwind.net> Message-ID: <3AD77777.E1F75FED@ecubics.com> Joel Ewy wrote: > > Sage II -- I wonder if that's the same Sage that I'm aware of. We had one > where I went to college, and a friend of mine, who really needs to be on this > list, ended up with it when it stopped working and was deemed unworthy to be > repaired. It had an MC68000 and ran it's own proprietary operating system, as > far as I can remember, and a Pascal P system. I remember that it used some > kind of 80 track 5.25" floppy drives and there was this game on it called > "Kings & Castles." It was just a little metal box with text terminals hooked > up to it, I believe. Every now and then my friend and I talk about trying to > get the thing to run again so we can play that game. Shouldn't be that hard to get it running again. There was no magic on the SAGE board. cheers From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 17:03:25 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Hi Folks - home email speaking Message-ID: 'ello, I'm subbed from home now and for some reason (probably lack of caffeine) made a bit of an arse of rebuilding the email server at work so it won't accept dialup connections. If anyone's replied to my missives since Thursday afternoon (UK time) would they please either repost or mail direct to me? cheers! PS coming soon - boxed Camputers Lynx :o) adrian/witchy (Adrian Graham) www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 17:04:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Apr 13, 1 03:21:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2130 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010413/e4929fd0/attachment.ksh From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Fri Apr 13 17:32:53 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Collection list (Icon) In-Reply-To: <200104131331.JAA26943@wordstock.com> References: <20010412235112.A3934@localhostnl.demon.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010413153253.00801e20@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I remember the ICON! But I have never seen one since :( They appeared in my final year of high school at Grimbsby S.S. in 1983/1984. In two words the ones we had looked like chocolate ET, but they were much more advanced than the CBM Pet 4032s we had. The keyboard was integral to the system unit and included a trackball as a pointer. The monitor was green monochrome and stuck out from the system unit on a short gooseneck. The CPU was a 68000, ran QNX and had a hard drive of unknown capacity. I was overjoyed at not having to store programs on cassette tape anymore! I remember programming in BASIC, using a scribble program with the trackball, LOGO, and playing the original adventure. In short, this is one oddball computer someone should get their hands on. Edwin At 09:31 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: >>From going through a bunch of sites it looks like the ICON was somehow >connected to Unisys. Plus somewhere I remember reading that the ICONS were >based on the 80186. Of course this last bit may be totally wrong... > >Bryan >Happy Friday and All.... > From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Fri Apr 13 17:40:47 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: What's DEC doing at Data General site...? Message-ID: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> G'day DEC'heads- While updating our Data General-oriented web site I've added a new DEC photo section to the web site just for nostalgia sake: http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/dec.htm I've also updated the list of of our scanned DG docs at: http://www.simulogics.com/archives/manuals/DG.htm so you can see what is currently available upon request. More vendor docs can be found by tracking down the appriate vendor selection at: http://www.simulogics.com/archives/manuals/manuals.htm This site is being extensively updated over the next week, and comments, ridicule, questions and suggestions always welcomed - (and I am still interested in obtaining an 8/E, 8/L or 8/I if anybody has a working system seeking a caring home) Bruce Ray bkr@SimuLogics.com -or- bkr@WildHareComputers.com From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 13 17:43:04 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD780F8.7DDF143A@internet1.net> U of M is Michigan :-) I thought Maryland was just UM? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dave McGuire wrote: > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 17:50:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413154014.019a1610@208.226.86.129> Well in classic style I was restoring a MicroVAX II (and this one is a true classic as its in the BA23 pedestal case and everything). It is still missing a couple of bits (like the brackets that keep the BA23 in side the plastic area of which it has only one, apparently its previous owner liked being able to pull out and re-insert the BA23.) So it also has a TK50 and I took it apart, blew out the dust checked it over, and even loaded a test tape (had standalone backup on it) and booted it and removed it. Great, a working TK50. So I put what alleges to be a Ultrix 2.2 install tape, and boot that. It boots! Yippee, and then rewinds the tape (I've got no idea how to install Ultrix and typing 'install.1' got me a screen that said "no devices to install on" :-(. So I figure it should at least see the tape and I look back at the TK50 and it thinks its unloaded (green light on, red light off) I pull the handle up and the red light comes back on, cartridge comes half way out. I know that the solenoid has re-engaged for some reason so I push the cart back in and do the unload fan-dang-go (you know push the putton in and out, per the manual, six times) whiz, whirr, whiz, whirr, ka-chunk. Green light comes on. I pull the handle and the red light comes on again. So shut everything off, pull the tape unit, remove the cover and 1/2 of the tape is still on the take-up reel! So this is a new failure condition I've not yet met, and I'd really, really like to keep this tape. So does _anyone_ know of a way to "force" the motor under the cartridge to rewind? A test point would be great but even just "put 12v across it here and here and off it goes" would be doable. I'm willing to sacrifice the drive to save the tape but don't want to if I don't need to. Perhaps a signal pin on the conecctor? (I've yet to find a pinout for this connector in my docs or a schematic of the M7546 (TQK50)). Sigh, --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 17:52:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD780F8.7DDF143A@internet1.net> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413155222.019a14a0@208.226.86.10> Um what? At 06:43 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: >U of M is Michigan :-) I thought Maryland was just UM? > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 13 17:56:23 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > I guess if the early 1970's counts as fairly late, anyway... I can't speak > for the 60's, but in the early 70's Samsonite (yes, the suitcase people) had > a plant in Englewood making an 18 bit minicomputer. They called the company > Electronic Processors, Inc. Colorado is more of a semiconductor fabrication > area, really... Though I'm sure most people on this list will recognize > Otrona... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Seems like Storage Technology hung around that neck of the woods also. - don From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 13 17:57:09 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: References: <003c01c0c3b0$a0f2c8e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 12, 1 06:28:14 pm Message-ID: >> What this really says is that in order to connect two devices, you have >>to know >> precisely what you're doing. That's hard, nowadays, when the mfg's >>documents >> are printed in large type on a business card. Things have gone downhill. Someplace in my "collection" I have a "smart" cable, just plug it in and it configures itself for just about anything DB25. From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Apr 13 18:15:57 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:17 2005 Subject: SETCOLOR info found References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb><5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10><050901c0c451$e21fbde0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <057101c0c46f$b75fd9a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> The 2000, as I'm sure you know, was a relatively short-lived, not-quite-PC-compatible. By the time 80 took the Tandy DOS systems seriously, the 1000 was the hot system. A lot of TRS-80 folks upgraded to the 1000; very few to the 2000. John, if I remember correctly, was involved with weapons systems on nuclear submarines--stuff that he could never discuss with civilians. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hellige" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:42 PM Subject: Re: SETCOLOR info found > I recall seeing the odd reference to the 2000, much more on > the 1000, in the later 80 Micro's. I may even have a couple of > issues left around here from the late 80's when I was reading both it > and PCM regularly. John's letter shows him as a Lt. Commander, USN > at the time living up here in D.C. > > Jeff > > >John Harrell was a prolific writer/programmer who published most of his work > >in 80 Micro. His stuff was always top-notch. I don't recall SETCOLOR. 80 > >Micro did eventually cover the Tandy 1000/2000, so he must have submitted > >the program shortly after the 2000's release. > > > >--Mike > > > >Michael Nadeau > >Editorial Services > >603-893-2379 > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 13 18:26:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413154014.019a1610@208.226.86.129> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 13, 2001 03:50:14 PM Message-ID: <200104132326.QAA30359@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Well in classic style I was restoring a MicroVAX II (and this one is a true > classic as its in the BA23 pedestal case and everything). It is still > missing a couple of bits (like the brackets that keep the BA23 in side the > plastic area of which it has only one, apparently its previous owner liked > being able to pull out and re-insert the BA23.) So it also has a TK50 and I > took it apart, blew out the dust checked it over, and even loaded a test > tape (had standalone backup on it) and booted it and removed it. Great, a > working TK50. So I put what alleges to be a Ultrix 2.2 install tape, and > boot that. It boots! Yippee, and then rewinds the tape (I've got no idea > how to install Ultrix and typing 'install.1' got me a screen that said "no > devices to install on" :-(. So I figure it should at least see the tape and > So this is a new failure condition I've not yet met, and I'd really, really > like to keep this tape. So does _anyone_ know of a way to "force" the motor > under the cartridge to rewind? A test point would be great but even just Have you powercycled the system and told it to unload the tape? I've seen this before, unfortuantly I don't remember what I did to fix it. Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 18:53:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: <200104132326.QAA30359@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413154014.019a1610@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413165223.019a1890@208.226.86.10> At 04:26 PM 4/13/2001 -0700, Zane wrote: >Have you powercycled the system and told it to unload the tape? I've seen >this before, unfortuantly I don't remember what I did to fix it. Yup, this was one of my first things I tried. Then running it not connected to the TQK50. Neither will get it to rewind. --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 13 18:29:28 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Re: My Collection" (Apr 13, 11:12) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10104140029.ZM17755@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 13, 11:12, Jerome Fine wrote: > Also, I am not surprised, but no one seems to consider software as part > of their collection. Is it because they are mostly copies that have been > "acquired" or because software is not really considered collectable by > most list participants? > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? Yes, two of my systems run RT-11 (V4.00 and 5.01). One 11/73 normally runs RSX-11M (4.2). The 11/83 runs BSD 2.11, and an 11/23 runs 7th Edition UNIX. The Microvax runs VMS, or at least, that's what's on the disks and I will figure out how to make it do things one day, honest. I also have various versions of XXDP on 5.25" and 8" floppies, and an RL02 pack. I'm not quite sure what I have for the VT78 as it's been in storage since I got it and I can't find the disks right now. David Gesswein has been helpful in pointing me to some software, and I expect I'll end up installing something something liek OS/8 or OS/278. The SGI machines mostly run IRIX 5.3 (one Indy has 6.5), and several of them have applications software (like MediaMail, Netscape, Acrobat Reader, ..) which I use regularly. One of them is the local mail server and fileserver, an also acts as a modem server for some home-grown viewdata software; one manages the print queues. The one with the modem is likely to have HylaFAX added to it (fax server software). Two of them are the machines my wife and I use for most day-to-day stuff. The other machines that get used regularly are an Acorn Archimedes A440, used as a fax server and DTP machine, using ArcFax and Impression Publisher, One R260 does a similar job at work, where it's used to print CD-R labels -- Publisher again -- and also acts as a terminal emulator to connect to serial ports on hubs and switches. There's a boring PC that gets used to decode Word documents sometimes, if the SGIs' can't read them, and occasionally to use Powerpoint, and sometimes to run some network management software for fun. The Exidy Sorcerer and one of the BBC Micros are sometimes used for games. I have a pretty good collection for the Beeb, including classics like Elite, and Revs; not much for the Sorcerer except Galaxians and Breakout. Anybody got any Sorcerer software? One of the Beebs is also used for programming EPROMs, assembling Z-80 code, and general hackery. I have quite a lot of software, I suppose (looking at all the disk boxes around here) but a surprising amount of it is systems software rather than applications -- most of the useful applications get run on Indys that aren't yet classic by the 10-year rule. If you want a list of O.S's: Paradox OS for a 68K machine (eg Sage II) CP/M for the Amstrad and Acorn Z-80 CP/M-86 for an Apricot which I no longer have CPN (CP/M-like OS) for the Torch UCSD p-System for the Apple ][ , Sage II, BBC Micro, and 11/23 RT-11 V2.00, V4.00, and 5.01 for almost any of my -11s RSX-11M 3.1 and 4.2 for the 11/23 and 11/73, and occasionally the 11/34 XXDP for any of the -11s DOS 3.3 and PRoDOS for the Apple ][ and //e RISC OS 2 for the Acorn Archimedes machines RISC OS 3 for the Acorn Archimedes and R260 machines Arthur (predecessor of RISC OS) for the Archimedes A310 RISC iX (BSD 4.3, ported) for the R260s BSD 2.11 for the 11/83 7th Edition for the 11/23 (and for the 11/73 if I rebuild the kernel) MOS 1.0 for the BBC Micros, plus a couple of modified versions, along with lots of additonal ROM software IRIX 5.3, 6.2, and 6.5 for various SGIs Solaris 2.3 and 2.7 for the Sparcs DOS 3.30 for the PC used to run 22-DISK etc DOS 6.2 for other PCs Windows 2.0, 3.0, 3.11, 95, and NT for PCs (English and German versions) Mac OS 6.something for the Mac Pluses Mac OS 7.something for the IIvx There's obviously a lot more but that's what comes to mind because I use it "every so often" rather than "once in a blue moon". For example, I have a licensed copy of RT-EMT which is an RT-11 emulator for Unix (mine was licensed to run under 7th Edition on the 11/23), but it's not something I use every day or even every year. 20 years ago it was in regular use. I also have some "classic" software, like Elite for the Beeb (I still have over a dozen shrink-wrapped copies), lots more Acorn/BBC software, HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy for DOS and CP/M-86, ADVENT for RSX and RT-11, Star Trek for umpteen machines, Galaxians for the Sorcerer, Kermit for almost everything I own that has a serial port (still extremely useful), assorted Claris software for the Mac Plus, Impression Publisher for the Arcs, Netscape (ie, version 1) and Mosaic for the SGIs, and probably 101 other things I can't think of this late at night :-) The point, I suppose, is that the hardware is more visible, while most of the software I use daily isn't exactly part of the "classic" collection. The software is at least as important, of course, as is the documentation; it's just less tangible. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 13 14:47:39 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "Re: Collection list (just for phun) and wants" (Apr 13, 9:16) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <3.0.5.32.20010413091610.0095e430@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10104132047.ZM17693@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 13, 9:16, Tom Uban wrote: > I see you are looking for a TU56. Do you have a TC11 to control one? Not yet :-) Is that an offer? I've got the tapes for it :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Apr 13 19:02:21 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection Message-ID: <6c.98c489c.2808ed8f@aol.com> In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001 3:45:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave McGuire writes: << U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. >> Dave, Just out of curiosity, have you found any of that microart burned on I.C.'s yet? -Linc. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 19:02:56 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Chad Fernandez) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AD780F8.7DDF143A@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15063.37808.5985.362050@phaduka.neurotica.com> UM, U of M, UMD, it's all alphabet soup to me. I didn't attend the school, so I don't know what the official abbreviation is. :) -Dave McGuire On April 13, Chad Fernandez wrote: > U of M is Michigan :-) I thought Maryland was just UM? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 19:06:26 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Zeiss lenses are generally pretty good :-). Yes, the Zeiss Tessar lenses are almost legendary in their quality. Zeiss optics can be found on a lot of medical equipment too. One of my favorite lenses to use with my A-1 is a Kiron 70-210mm macro zoom. It's about 15 years old at this point but it's barrel movement is smooth as silk. When it was new in the mid 80's, it cost us nearly $400. > >It is, of course monochrome only, but the CCD output is digitised to an 8 >bit signal, which is corrected in the camera (8*8 multiplier chip and an >EPROM lookup table) for the sensitivity of each CCD pixel. Since it is >only useable for static subjects (it takes a few seconds for the CCD to >move across the image), there's nothing to stop me taking 3 pictures, >each with a suitable colour filter in front of the lens, and then >combining them in software if I need colour. That's how the DigiView works on the Amiga, though instead of the supplied color wheel and a video camera to capture the images I use a good quality VCR or 8mm camcorder, good quality cables, and a color splitter. I still have to do the 3 seperate captures though. Of course, the DigiView doesn't offer anywhere near the resolution that you're talking about either but for 1985 it was pretty impressive. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 13 19:08:26 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (LFessen106@aol.com) References: <6c.98c489c.2808ed8f@aol.com> Message-ID: <15063.38138.5786.889560@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. > But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that > scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp > filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > >> > > Dave, > Just out of curiosity, have you found any of that microart burned on I.C.'s yet? Lots of it. Most of it is fairly well-documented though, so I haven't bothered photographing any of it. I've enjoyed hunting around chips to find manufacturers' logos, though. That's always fun. Tooling around with the X and Y stage controls, until a big "W" Westinghouse logo pops up...cool! I'm really hoping to find a dead J11 chipset to decapitate. I have several J11-based boards here but I can't stand the idea of sacrificing one in that manner. If anyone here has a spare J11 chipset or a known-dead board containing one, I'd love to talk deal for it. -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 13 19:09:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: SETCOLOR info found In-Reply-To: <057101c0c46f$b75fd9a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> References: <383769375.987166339744.JavaMail.root@web431-wrb><5.0.0.25.2.2001041310223 4.019920e0@208.226.86.10><050901c0c451$e21fbde0$0c01a8c0@michaelna deau> <057101c0c46f$b75fd9a0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: >The 2000, as I'm sure you know, was a relatively short-lived, >not-quite-PC-compatible. By the time 80 took the Tandy DOS systems >seriously, the 1000 was the hot system. A lot of TRS-80 folks upgraded to >the 1000; very few to the 2000. The machine was only manufactured for about 9 months. In fact, it was already on the way out by the time a lot of the reviews started showing up in the magazines. It'd be interesting to know how many were manufactured...it'd be a nice thing to add to the FAQ. Generally though, the people that the 2000 was geared to were a different group (business users) than those that the 1000 series was geared towards (home users). The 2000 was an excellent buy considering it's capabilities. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 19:16:14 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413171346.04b79b38@208.226.86.10> At 08:06 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, Jeff wrote: > That's how the DigiView works on the Amiga, though instead of the supplied color wheel and a video > camera to capture the images I use a good quality VCR or 8mm camcorder, good quality cables, and a color > splitter. I still have to do the 3 seperate captures though. Of course, the DigiView doesn't offer anywhere > near the resolution that you're talking about either but for 1985 it was pretty impressive. Oh yeah! I even wrote an article on the Digiview for BYTE magazine back in the day. I had completely forgotten about that. I bet I could build an interface for my VAX that would digitize a video signal one pixel at a time and then display it using the VT340's SIXEL graphics. How cool is that... Dang another project to add to the list, at least I got the GKS stuff running :-) --Chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 13 19:43:51 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Serial Interfacing (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Someplace in my "collection" I have a "smart" cable, just plug it in and it > configures itself for just about anything DB25. I'm sure that there exist many things for which those work. But nothing that I've ever tried to use them for. I have ALWAYS had to make a cable, except one time connecting a votrax to a TRS-80 model 2 using a mountain hardware matrix switch. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 20:07:22 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Places in Denver References: Message-ID: <000c01c0c47f$42ea0ea0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Quantum, Western Digital, Seagate, Maxtor, Exabyte, HP, and a handful of others are all in the storage (mainly rotating memories) business with major plants in the Colorado front range area. The move to this area came about in the 90's. There have been several other MAJOR companies not in the semiconductor manufacturing business located here. It's easy to oversimplify. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 4:56 PM Subject: Re: Places in Denver > > > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > > > I guess if the early 1970's counts as fairly late, anyway... I can't speak > > for the 60's, but in the early 70's Samsonite (yes, the suitcase people) had > > a plant in Englewood making an 18 bit minicomputer. They called the company > > Electronic Processors, Inc. Colorado is more of a semiconductor fabrication > > area, really... Though I'm sure most people on this list will recognize > > Otrona... > > > > Will J > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > Seems like Storage Technology hung around that neck of the woods also. > > - don > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 20:13:16 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010413135923.01e84780@pc> Message-ID: <004701c0c480$9344ee00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > At 07:17 PM 4/13/01 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >Oh, brilliant... Many serial printers (Epson, etc) have the busy line on > >pin 11. So plug that into an Amiga serial port with a straight-through > >cable and you'll cook something in the sound circuitry. > Since when do serial printers have a BUSY line at all? Dick > > Yes, and back in the day, I seem to remember that Amigans did. > The custom cable-making companies also did brisk business, due > to the odd serial port and video ports of the Amiga. I also > remember conflicts with scanners, where people would mistakenly > plug it into the parallel port when it belonged on a SCSI port > connector. > > - John > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 20:16:43 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Places in Denver References: Message-ID: <004801c0c480$936e20e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I think many will recognize NBI, DENELCOR (rip), Cadnetix, and Solbourne. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Places in Denver > I guess if the early 1970's counts as fairly late, anyway... I can't speak > for the 60's, but in the early 70's Samsonite (yes, the suitcase people) had > a plant in Englewood making an 18 bit minicomputer. They called the company > Electronic Processors, Inc. Colorado is more of a semiconductor fabrication > area, really... Though I'm sure most people on this list will recognize > Otrona... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Apr 14 02:35:27 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 1702A EPROM Programming In-Reply-To: <3AD6DF5D.7389852@mitre.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010414023527.34d7245a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Glenn, I have a stash of 1702As. I can probably let you have a couple. Joe At 07:13 AM 4/13/01 -0400, you wrote: >I've been working with someone who has an old 8080-based single board >computer he's trying to get to work. We're investigating several >possible problems but it's starting to look like there's a problem with >the EPROM. I have the ROM code he needs and will be checking out the >EPROMS, but we may be faced with a need to reprogram one or both of >these. They're the old 256 byte 1702A Intel chips (ceramic). I've only >programmed the 27xx series but have read that the 1702's are "really >difficult" to program. Was wondering if folks in this group could >comment on how to proceed if/when we decide we need to reprogram one of >these. Are there more modern plug compatible alternatives? We may also >need to replace one or both - any sources known other than eBay? >thanks. > >p.s. FYI, the computer here is the "MMD-1", an old 8080 >trainer/breadboarding box. here's a picture i found on the web: > >http://online.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.E&L-MMD1.html > > >- glenn >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\grobert1.vcf" > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 20:26:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <004701c0c480$9344ee00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 13, 1 07:13:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 927 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/97f4fbb5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 20:29:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Apr 13, 1 03:57:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/7682d0a3/attachment.ksh From rcini at optonline.net Fri Apr 13 20:34:38 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Preferred method of archiving CBM disks Message-ID: I have a bit of down time, so I wanted to make archival copies of the Commodore disks that I have. I have an old copy of X1541 which I was going to use, but I wanted to take a quick survey and see what other methods list members use? Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 13 20:41:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413154014.019a1610@208.226.86.129> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 13, 1 03:50:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/fd032c35/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 13 20:51:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <006001c0c485$64836100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've revisited the RS232 signal definitions and can't see one called "busy". I know about software handshaking, and even hardware handshaking, but I don't know of a 'busy" signal. Which pin is that? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > At 07:17 PM 4/13/01 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > > >Oh, brilliant... Many serial printers (Epson, etc) have the busy line on > > > >pin 11. So plug that into an Amiga serial port with a straight-through > > > >cable and you'll cook something in the sound circuitry. > > > > > Since when do serial printers have a BUSY line at all? > > Oh, most do. The really old ones (Teletypes, Decwriters, etc) don't -- > they operate at a baud rate low enough that you can't send characters > too fast for them. But most more recent printers have some kind of > internal buffering and handshaking -- either software handshaking > (XON/XOFF, ETX/ACK) or hardware handshaking (Busy line, for example). > > Epsons (and things emulating Epsons, and more recent DECwriters, like the > LA100) seem to put the busy signal on pin 11 (at RS232 levels, of > course). Some other makes (like my Apple LW2NT) use the normal lines > (RTS, DTR, etc) for this. > > -tony > > From msuttner at columbus.rr.com Fri Apr 13 21:01:36 2001 From: msuttner at columbus.rr.com (Mark Suttner) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: IBM 9370 Mainframe Specs? Message-ID: <003801c0c486$d6dc56c0$5357fea9@columbus.rr.com> Hello, I worked in Endicott for IBM on the design of what was known internally as the Series-X machine. This later became the S/9370 and AS/400. If you notice in the first announcements that the machines look alike? Both use common building block parts developed for Series-X which was canceled. Both used the same RISC processor. The 9379 has an emulation assist card to help with the S/370 instructions. At any rate I was looking for some information on the processor and IBM had none in their archives. Anyone know where there is information online? I have some marketing materials from when it was released. Mark From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 21:33:22 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION References: <3AD715D8.9B5E68C4@greenbelt.com> <005a01c0c42e$4c32a0e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AD7B6F2.726BC974@greenbelt.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Yes, I've got one, though it has been hacked into non-functionality. I haven't > got all the schematics, and the ones issued with the device were not complete to > begin with. > What exactly do you have? I too have one but it lacks a controller card, however the manuals are excellent. Not being an S-100 type I really have no use for it. I have the hi-res monitor, cable and docs. BTW, oneof my profs that taught the microcomputer class was VP at SCION at the time of MicroAngelo. Eric > > It was, indeed, a high-res graphics board, for the S-100, that had its own > resident processor and responded to high-level commands for drawing and filling. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Chomko" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:06 AM > Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > Anyone ever heard of it or have one? I pretty sure it was a hi-res > > graphics system (back in 1980) for S-100 systems. > > > > Eric > > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 21:26:51 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <00db01c0c48c$2ef9eb10$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Eric Chomko > >Whoa! The class I took in microcomputers (two actually) was once a week at 7:00pm. I was a regular full-time day student at that time. However, the class was >populated with many over 30 types and in one class the Prof. was about 60 and the other class the Prof was 28! That would be about right. About the time I'd bought the 9900 I'd be taking a course on data structures in pascal. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 21:33:02 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) Message-ID: <00dc01c0c48c$2f61d4a0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > > As far as I know, the 8bit IDE drives maxed out at 40meg, Mostly due to the 8bit market for them shrinking. My solution is a acculogic 8bit to standard ISA adaptor, works great with a Conner 420mb IDE. Allison From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Apr 13 21:49:50 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <15063.8348.184573.469420@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD7BACE.CF619EB1@idirect.com> >Dave McGuire wrote: > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. Jerome Fine replies: I sounds like this is now strictly for hobby use. Do you have any non-DEC boards? What is the interface between the PDP-11 and the microscope? How does RT-11 perform? Are there any enhancements that you could use at this point? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Apr 13 21:49:59 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: SMS 1000 up for grabs in UK - now one in Toronto References: <200104122151.f3CLpkH05962@bg-tc-ppp1617.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3AD7BAD7.F1194100@idirect.com> >Bill Pechter wrote: > >Kevan wrote: > > I have an SMS 1000 (A PDP 11/73) that I no longer want. It is populated > > with a M8192-YB (11/73 cpu) card and a MSV11-R memory card made by > > General Robotics Corp. There is an internal harddisk and both a 5 1/4" and > > 8" floppy drives. It runs RT-11 and has a set of RT-11 manuals > > including: 1A, 2, 2A, 2B, 2C, 3A, 3B, PDP11 FORTRAN 77 & RT-11 Mini > > Ref. Manual. > > It really has to go so I will split up if someone wants only parts from > > it. The manuals will end up in the paper recycling bins at work if nobody > > wants them. > > Kevan > Nice web site...Darn... > If shipping from the UK wasn't gonna cost a fortune... Jerome Fine replies: I might have one as well. Bill, are you interested? I think it is still there, but I will have to dig among the BA23 boxes - about the same size if I remember. I think the disk drive is only about 10 MBytes and the backplane only 6 quad slots (12 dual slots if used that way). But I don't have the ability right now to ship - maybe later this year if you can't pick it up. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Apr 13 21:50:07 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request References: Message-ID: <3AD7BADF.3CB3D862@idirect.com> >McFadden, Mike wrote: > Surviving customs > My experience when shipping through customs you must make sure that you > don't say it's "worthless", they think you are lying. I have tried saying > "used medical equipment" but they translated that to "medical waste". I > ended up with "sterile out of date medical equipment that is composed of > stainless steel and plastic". Actually supplying the least amount of > information is probably smartest. Try to avoid mention of the > "radioactive" or in our case "non-radioactive" word. I suspect that any > mention of any form of the "drug" word would also be a stupid. Mentioning > that it will be used for educational purposes may have helped. Jerome Fine replies: My experience with customs is ONLY from the US to Canada! If you (who are reading) are interested in this one aspect, read on. In line with what Mike suggested, I recommend that you ALWAYS attach some minimum value. There is a threshold for imports into Canada from the US, however, which is important. In general, due to free trade, most stuff, in particular computer stuff with the country of origin being the US, does not have any duty or taxes other than GST (federal Goods and Services Tax). If you are an ordinary person (not a company), then for Ontario and many provinces, there is the PST (Provincial Sales Tax). For some provinces, there is an HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) which I don't have much experience with since I live in Ontario. For Ontario, the PST is 8% and the GST is 7% for a total of 15% (there are not added to each other). However, most businesses in Ontario have a PST exemption, so for a business, only the GST is charged, and for individuals, the full 15% is charged - both GST and PST. But, there is a threshold - for a business (and probably the same for an individual) of $ CAN 20.00 which means that if the GST is less than $ CAN 1.40, customs will rate the shipment as "low value" and the GST is not collected - which means that the shipment goes through as a "courier remission". In general, these days, I attempt to keep the value under $ US 12.00 to qualify. So if ordering from eBay, if the value is too high, I rarely bother. Note that this $ US 12.00 includes ONLY the actual contents, not shipping, handling or insurance. If I am having something sent, I usually have the value set at at least $ US 5.00 rather than zero since that seems much more reasonable to customs. However, I recently made a real purchase of $ US 11.00 of a disk drive and cartridges which weighed about 50 lb. and it was held for a week until customs finally agree to let it through. From what I heard, the documentation was not satisfactory and they initially refused to believe that a shipment that cost three times as much for shipping was worth so little and weighed so much. The documentation required in all cases is a "Commercial Invoice" with the minimum being (in 4 copies usually): Name and address and phone number of Vendor Name and address and phone number of Customer Actual cost of the goods being shipped and a detailed breakdown Country of origin of the goods When sent via USPS, usually the GREEN customs CN-22 is sufficient. Note that for most shippers (UPS and FedEx included as far as I know), when the shipment is sent via air, the shipping cost includes the brokerage charge for clearing the shipment, which is EXTREMELY important when the cost is above $ US 12.00 since both these carriers seem to charge much more than the difference between ground shipping costs and air (slowest 2-4 days) costs. So, if the shipment is going to incur GST charges (which for a business are essentially refundable in any case), it is almost always best to ship by air which means that the only extra charge for a business is the GST. Note that these answers are from personal experience with both UPS and FedEx over the past two years with shipments both less than and greater than $ US 12.00 and by air as well as ground plus USPS for only ground shipments. By the way, FedEx via air seems quite hard on the boxes since the last two 60 lb. boxes that arrived (both about 2 ft. cubes) were almost totally broken to the point that one box was ready to let the popcorn padding out one of the broken seams on the side of the box. Fortunately, the vendor had packed the box very well and the contents (that optical disk drive and cartridges) were not damaged. I hope this helps anyone sending from the US to Canada. I will answer any other questions if there is anything I have not covered. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 21:59:11 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) References: Message-ID: <3AD7BCFF.1E1B179E@greenbelt.com> I have a WD 40AP, which is an external HD with two female DB-25 connectors (SCSI?) on it. The rotating selector switch is from 0-F (all single hex digits, 16 in all, twice what a Mac has -weird SCSI?). Could this device be what the C Colt can use? Eric Russ Blakeman wrote: > I probably have a suitable WDC or Seagate somewhere around here for it but > have to check. I know I have a ton of Seagate ST-3250A's but have to see > what I have in the XT line - may even have a box full of working Minscribe's > somewhere in storage, although finding an 80 might be a chance in a million. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 1:10 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) > > > > > > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > > > Thanks for the info. I think I have an old ST225 around someplace. > > > > > > Eric > > > > You'll need a Western Digital WX-1 or similar to throw in there. The Colt > > has an 8-bit IDE port (there were a few 20Mb and 40Mb drives to that > > standard - look for "X" at the end of the Seagate/Western Digital > > part number > > (as opposed to A for IDE or S or N for SCSI)) > > > > If you _have_ an 80-bit MFM controller, it's probably easier to > > find an MFM > > drive. I don't recall if there's room for a 5.25" hard disk in the box if > > you have two floppies - the XT-IDE drives are all 3.5" > > > > After getting through all of _that_, it'll be a decent little XT for you. > > I think it's T for Turbo mode and S for > > regular (slow) > > mode. The machine will beep at different frequencies, using a > > CPU delay loop, > > to indicate which speed it's at. > > > > Enjoy, > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > > ===== > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 22:05:55 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection Message-ID: <013e01c0c490$62ea4970$67749a8d@ajp166> >> Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? Me too, I have it and it's a really good OS. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 13 21:58:23 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <013d01c0c490$62731da0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: James B. DiGriz > >Wish now I had spent a lot more on actual hardware, though. I envy >your collection. I had an advantage, working for NEC micromputers from 79-84, as a product engineer I was able read up on and sometimes required to use/experiment with many CPUs so I could compare them. Allison From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 22:07:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Maryland (was Re: My Collection) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD7BF03.978D98FC@greenbelt.com> Hey Dave, Jeff Hellige, you and I are neighbors! Heck, Jeff was over a couple of weeks ago and I gave him the grand tour. I really enjoyed it. Four hours went by and it seemed like we had barely started. We all ought to plan to get together for trades, show-and-tell, etc. Computer people are a dime-a-dozen these days. Vintage computer people are a rare breed indeed, but I am glad I found this place. Thanks, Jeff! Eric Dave McGuire wrote: > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) > > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. > But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that > scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp > filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > -Dave McGuire > > On April 13, Jason McBrien wrote: > > That's SUPER Impressive. What do you take pictures of? I'm always hoping to > > find one of those at U of M property depot, but the closest I've seen is a > > fetal ultrasound machine :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave McGuire" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:39 PM > > Subject: Re: My Collection > > > > > > > > > > I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. > > > They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. > > > SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > > > On April 13, Tony Eros wrote: > > > > You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things > > get? > > > > > > > > -- Tony > > > > > > > > At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > > > >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > > > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > > > > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > > > > > > > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > > > >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > > > > >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 22:17:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) References: Message-ID: <3AD7C15C.4C8674EB@greenbelt.com> Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than Allison? I got the regular run-of-the-mill stuff, 8088, 286, 386, 486, 68Ks -most (no 68060, tho). I do have a 186, not really rare but seemed to be skipped over like the 68010 (don't have one, either). Can't say I really have a scare microprocessor. I did manage to get the Mot 88K chipset of all things. I have a few SBCs, mostly plug-in cards into ISA bus. Some interesting ones. In fact, most of the lose chips I have from list above I also have as a plug-in card. I'll have to catergorize them better and complete generate a list. Eric "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, ajp me wrote: > > > The F8 is one I skipped over by choice. I do have basic data on it though. The 8080/8085/z80/z180/z280 and Z800x are machines I'm also familiar with. The only SBC in the 8080 family is the STP cards from VT100s I have gobs of them and they make handy little controllers. Other chips level cpus I've played with include the 8008, 8048/8049 family, 8051, DEC T-11, NSC800, NEC D78xx series, many of the 4bit machines other than intel's. > > > > Allison > > > > As I mentioned, I was an impoverished student in that time > frame. Nevertheless, I spent a small fortune on books on these kinds of > processors, and computers and programming languages and such. (Not to > mention SF, hot rod periodicals, underground comix, National Lampoon, and > girlie mags). I gave away some of the hot rod stuff to a friend who was > restoring an old Fairlane, but I still have the rest of it. Well some of > the girlie mags are hors de combat, lost in a skirmish with Mothers of > America militia patrol. > > Wish now I had spent a lot more on actual hardware, though. I envy > your collection. > > jbdigriz From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 13 22:27:30 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010413155222.019a14a0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD7C3A1.AE739105@greenbelt.com> There is a forsale newsgroup: um.forsale for U of MD. Sometimes folks for UMich show up. 'UM' shouldn't be used, just like a state code of simply 'M' shouldn't be used. I mean I could see the folks in Minnesota becoming indignant with the folks from Missouri and vive versa claiming why each SHOULD really be THE 'M'! And right about them folks from Mississippi will chime in. UMD works unambiguously, and so on. Eric Chuck McManis wrote: > Um what? > > At 06:43 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >U of M is Michigan :-) I thought Maryland was just UM? > > > >Chad Fernandez > >Michigan, USA > > > >Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 22:32:51 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <013d01c0c490$62731da0$67749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: James B. DiGriz > > > > >Wish now I had spent a lot more on actual hardware, though. I envy > >your collection. > > > I had an advantage, working for NEC micromputers from 79-84, as a > product engineer I was able read up on and sometimes required to > use/experiment with many CPUs so I could compare them. > > Allison > A corporate budget backing you up would help. I have a NEC MGE video card. I got it mostly for the TMS34010 and support chips, with a view to building a video card for the TI PEB. A project I have yet to get to, however. Amazingly NEC still has support files and software for the card on their ftp site for this 10 year rule product. jbdigriz From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 13 22:50:20 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <3AD7C15C.4C8674EB@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than Allison? I got the regular run-of-the-mill stuff, 8088, 286, 386, 486, 68Ks -most (no 68060, tho). I do have a 186, not really rare but seemed to be skipped over like the 68010 (don't have one, either). Can't say I really have a scare microprocessor. I did manage to get the Mot 88K chipset of all things. > > I have a few SBCs, mostly plug-in cards into ISA bus. Some interesting ones. In fact, most of the lose > chips I have from list above I also have as a plug-in card. I'll have to catergorize them better and complete generate a list. > > Eric I can't say I collect chips, they just accumulate. I feel better if I give them a good home. A board or system to live in. :-) jbdigriz From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 13 22:58:38 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> What this really says is that in order to connect two devices, you have > >>to know > >> precisely what you're doing. That's hard, nowadays, when the mfg's > >>documents > >> are printed in large type on a business card. Things have gone downhill. > > Someplace in my "collection" I have a "smart" cable, just plug it in and it > configures itself for just about anything DB25. RS-232 only. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 13 23:19:20 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Serial Interfacing (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > Someplace in my "collection" I have a "smart" cable, just plug it in and it > > configures itself for just about anything DB25. > > I'm sure that there exist many things for which those work. But nothing > that I've ever tried to use them for. I have ALWAYS had to make a cable, > except one time connecting a votrax to a TRS-80 model 2 using a mountain > hardware matrix switch. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com I got my first one in the early '80s when the installation tech(?) was unable to determine the appropriate jumpers to solder into the programmable shunt to make the new DEST 'Workless Station' OCR reader communicate with the S-100 system that it was connected to. Since he had it working with the SmartCable (the original one with only one switch) but not with the shunt, I told the sales type that I would keep the '...Cable'. He agreed. Not long after, I replaced it after solving the shunt problem. Subsequently, I found another one (the two switch version) and now have both. Handy gadgets for 'quick and dirty' one time connections! - don From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Apr 13 23:36:50 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be willing to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin cable). --Chuck From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Apr 14 00:10:17 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010414001017.009a4100@ubanproductions.com> Well, I said that I would put up some more pictures of one of my Imlacs a couple of days ago, but I got delayed a bit, so here they are now: http://www.ubanproductions.com/imlacs.html --tom From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Apr 14 01:00:48 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <002501c0c41a$3c9d27e0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> References: <20010410202127.7753.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> <008901c0c257$79ea10a0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <002401c0c2b2$915974a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD51378.BA1B906B@mindless.com> <003b01c0c317$9a3061a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010413230000.00a09ab0@mail.zipcon.net> If you want good key action, check out the old XT and AT/ PS/2 REAL IBM keyboards for the keyswitches :) At 06:03 AM 4/13/01 -0700, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Richard Erlacher >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:12 PM >Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > As far as looking for key switches, for functionality, I rather liked >Sellam's > > suggestion implying that an old PC Keyboard (not a rarity) might provide > > sufficient switches. > >That's a great idea. I have a few dead ones in >the boneyard. Might as well tear into one and see >if it can be salvaged. > >I'm going to have to learn to desolder I guess. :) >Don't know how I got this far in electronics hobby >building and never had to do any serious parts >removal. > Moreover, with a good software package and a hi-res > > printer, you could make key legends that you can rubber-cement to the >keycaps > > and paint over with clear laquer. If you don't mind that they're less >durable, > > you can even use the (clear vinyl, not "magic") scotch tape to keep from >rubbing > > off the legends. The caps come off the keytops, and if you are careful >you can > > do this so it looks good and works very well. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ross Archer" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 8:31 PM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > Look "good" ... ??? ... Depends on your preferences, I guess. > > > > > > > > A big part of the question of HOW to go about fixing this is to answer >the > > > > question of whether your goal is to restore the KIM-1 to its original > > condition > > > > for historical authenticity or whether you'd just as soon have >something > > that > > > > works well instead. > > > > > > Operational is the main thing, but I'd be thrilled to restore it if the > > opportunity > > > came up. > > > > > > My main interest in the KIM and other really simple machines is as a > > > hands-on demo of what being a computerist was like in the early days > > > of microcomputers, before the keyboard, box, and monitor > > > paradigm took hold. Extra points for toggle switches too. :) > > > > > > I've seen interest in the thing from visitors who are > > > into computers, and so far all were less "what a quaint but completely > > > prehistoric piece of junk" than "wow, I can't believe a machine with > > > 1/1000th the CPU speed and 1/64,000th the memory can play > > > Hunt the Wumpus and other games and they're even a little fun." :) > > > It's a tribute to doing an amazing amount with what by modern standards > > > seems preposterously little, and I think preserving this realization is >part > > > of what being "into" classic computers can be about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the former is your goal, then you've a lot of hunting to > > > > do, but may eventually find out how to modify some other product to >fit the > > > > application. On the other hand, there are lots of available keypads, >or, if > > you > > > > prefer, lots of available individual keyswitches with >removable/clear-capped > > > > tops, that you can build a really decent and servicable keypad that >you can > > > > attach to the auxilliary connector in order to substitute it for the > > original > > > > without having first to remove the existing keypad. It seems to me >that > > they > > > > should work quite well in parallel. > > > > > > Okay. I try the regular electronics outlets. I'll try specifically >keyboard > > > manufacturers (ALPs, Cherry, etc. I guess) and see what I can dig up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know that Commodore actually fabricated the keypads >themselves, and, > > in > > > > fact, rather doubt it, so it's likely someone, somewhere, will have >used a > > > > similar keypad, or, at least, similar switches, so that will provide >you > > with > > > > amusement at swapmeets and junk sales. Moreover, if you haven't yet >looked > > at > > > > third-party switch catalogs, I'd certainly recommend that so you can >explore > > > > replacing the keypad with a possibly more durable and/or convenient, >yet > > > > cosmetically similar keypad. > > > > > > > > This will require some serious head-scratching. > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Ross Archer" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:17 AM > > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Ethan Dicks > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 1:21 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > It's pretty hard to tell whether it's the keypad or the circuit >that's > > > > > > > malfunctioning. How did you determine it's the keypad itself? > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the schematic, it appears to be a simple matrix. Short >a > > > > > particular > > > > > > X and Y line for the questionable key. If it "strikes", it's the > > keypad. > > > > > > If it still flakes out, it could be a component or trace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. It's a 3 x 7 array with 2 keys wired to a 556 for ST (step) >and > > > > > RS (reset). > > > > > > > > > > I've already tested the broken keys via the edge connector, and >they're > > > > > working fine. Not that there was too much doubt, as the buttons > > > > > involved are either caved in or "feel like they're not connecting > > > > > with anything". So a 3x7 + 2 switch setup should do the trick, > > > > > but what would look good. > > > > > > > > > > > -ethan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > > > > > > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > > > > > > > > > > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > > > > > > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > > > > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 13 21:14:56 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010413230000.00a09ab0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <002501c0c41a$3c9d27e0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <20010414061338.QKFD8469.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:00:48 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Geoff Reed > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > If you want good key action, check out the old XT and AT/ PS/2 REAL IBM > keyboards for the keyswitches :) Click, click, clack...provided that can stand that noise. Very reliable till someone spills in something wet, you're SOL. Check out hall-effect keyswitches such as found on toshiba T1960 series. I had both notebooks apart. Cool! Cheers, Wizard PS: snip that long string of replies pls, mind those people on pay by minute modem connection. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 01:35:21 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION References: <3AD715D8.9B5E68C4@greenbelt.com> <005a01c0c42e$4c32a0e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD7B6F2.726BC974@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <000901c0c4ad$1481a180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Back in the late '70's there were no "high-res" systems that were common enough to provide a basis for comparison, as the Apple][ was what most folks called "high-res". One of my guys bought several different graphics cards and the MicroAngelo was one of them. This one, from what I could tell was intended for monochrome use, however, though I remember seeing some ads for a 16-color version. The board has a local Z80A processor that apparently processes high-level commands (line-draw, fill, etc.) as it receives them from the host processor. The fellow, a programmer, who bought the thing concluded it didn't have enough firmware space and started to hack the board for more EPROM space, but never completed the job. When the dust settled, I found that I had one sheet of the schematic, which I remember seeing a month or so ago, and some other doc's, but certainly not a complete set. Also, the memory access multiplexing logic was obscured in the schematic by the folks who published it. We ended up using a graphics board of my own design since we could build ours for a fraction of what the MicroAngelo cost. This board, IIRC, produces a 512x480 raster, though I've never seen one at work. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:33 PM Subject: Re: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Yes, I've got one, though it has been hacked into non-functionality. I haven't > > got all the schematics, and the ones issued with the device were not complete to > > begin with. > > > > What exactly do you have? I too have one but it lacks a controller card, however the > manuals > are excellent. Not being an S-100 type I really have no use for it. > > I have the hi-res monitor, cable and docs. > > BTW, oneof my profs that taught the microcomputer class was VP at SCION at the time > of > MicroAngelo. > > Eric > > > > > > It was, indeed, a high-res graphics board, for the S-100, that had its own > > resident processor and responded to high-level commands for drawing and filling. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric Chomko" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:06 AM > > Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > > > Anyone ever heard of it or have one? I pretty sure it was a hi-res > > > graphics system (back in 1980) for S-100 systems. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > From claudew at videotron.ca Sat Apr 14 02:21:37 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Shipping through customs Canada<->USA...Was : NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request References: <3AD7BADF.3CB3D862@idirect.com> Message-ID: <006701c0c4b3$8ad6d8e0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Never been so complicated for me. A simple (10 secs to fill out) declaration going TO USA attached to package and the same for people shipping me stuff.. Never a problem... When I have very heavy stuff I have it shipped near the border at a friends PO BOX in NY state and pick it up myself and bring it through customs. Then you can explain and show its obsolete face-to-face with customs agent. Never a problem there too... I must have a honest looking face... Claude ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerome Fine To: Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:50 PM Subject: Re: NeXT slabs, recent finds and a request > >McFadden, Mike wrote: > > > Surviving customs > > My experience when shipping through customs you must make sure that you > > don't say it's "worthless", they think you are lying. I have tried saying > > "used medical equipment" but they translated that to "medical waste". I > > ended up with "sterile out of date medical equipment that is composed of > > stainless steel and plastic". Actually supplying the least amount of > > information is probably smartest. Try to avoid mention of the > > "radioactive" or in our case "non-radioactive" word. I suspect that any > > mention of any form of the "drug" word would also be a stupid. Mentioning > > that it will be used for educational purposes may have helped. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > My experience with customs is ONLY from the US to Canada! If you (who > are reading) are interested in this one aspect, read on. > > In line with what Mike suggested, I recommend that you ALWAYS attach > some minimum value. There is a threshold for imports into Canada from the > US, however, which is important. In general, due to free trade, most stuff, > in particular computer stuff with the country of origin being the US, does not > have any duty or taxes other than GST (federal Goods and Services Tax). > If you are an ordinary person (not a company), then for Ontario and many > provinces, there is the PST (Provincial Sales Tax). For some provinces, > there is an HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) which I don't have much experience > with since I live in Ontario. For Ontario, the PST is 8% and the GST is 7% > for a total of 15% (there are not added to each other). However, most > businesses in Ontario have a PST exemption, so for a business, only the GST > is charged, and for individuals, the full 15% is charged - both GST and PST. > > But, there is a threshold - for a business (and probably the same for an > individual) of $ CAN 20.00 which means that if the GST is less than > $ CAN 1.40, customs will rate the shipment as "low value" and the GST > is not collected - which means that the shipment goes through as a > "courier remission". In general, these days, I attempt to keep the value > under $ US 12.00 to qualify. So if ordering from eBay, if the value > is too high, I rarely bother. Note that this $ US 12.00 includes ONLY > the actual contents, not shipping, handling or insurance. > > If I am having something sent, I usually have the value set at at least $ US 5.00 > rather than zero since that seems much more reasonable to customs. However, > I recently made a real purchase of $ US 11.00 of a disk drive and cartridges > which weighed about 50 lb. and it was held for a week until customs finally > agree to let it through. From what I heard, the documentation was not > satisfactory and they initially refused to believe that a shipment that cost three > times as much for shipping was worth so little and weighed so much. > > The documentation required in all cases is a "Commercial Invoice" with the > minimum being (in 4 copies usually): > Name and address and phone number of Vendor > Name and address and phone number of Customer > Actual cost of the goods being shipped and a detailed breakdown > Country of origin of the goods > > When sent via USPS, usually the GREEN customs CN-22 is sufficient. > > Note that for most shippers (UPS and FedEx included as far as I know), > when the shipment is sent via air, the shipping cost includes the brokerage > charge for clearing the shipment, which is EXTREMELY important when > the cost is above $ US 12.00 since both these carriers seem to charge > much more than the difference between ground shipping costs and air > (slowest 2-4 days) costs. So, if the shipment is going to incur GST > charges (which for a business are essentially refundable in any case), > it is almost always best to ship by air which means that the only extra > charge for a business is the GST. > > Note that these answers are from personal experience with both UPS > and FedEx over the past two years with shipments both less than and > greater than $ US 12.00 and by air as well as ground plus USPS for > only ground shipments. By the way, FedEx via air seems quite hard > on the boxes since the last two 60 lb. boxes that arrived (both about > 2 ft. cubes) were almost totally broken to the point that one box was > ready to let the popcorn padding out one of the broken seams on the > side of the box. Fortunately, the vendor had packed the box very > well and the contents (that optical disk drive and cartridges) were > not damaged. > > I hope this helps anyone sending from the US to Canada. > > I will answer any other questions if there is anything I have not covered. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 14 02:31:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >> >> What this really says is that in order to connect two devices, you have >> >>to know >> >> precisely what you're doing. That's hard, nowadays, when the mfg's >> >>documents >> >> are printed in large type on a business card. Things have gone downhill. >> >> Someplace in my "collection" I have a "smart" cable, just plug it in and it >> configures itself for just about anything DB25. > >RS-232 only. Actually I think it is supposed to be smart enough to handle serial/modem, and I don't know about current loop. I haven't tried it with SCSI either, but stranger things have happened. I think its called a smart comm so likely SCSI is out. BTW this cable has NO SWITCHES, its all automatic via some internal circuit. I forget if it has anythng fancy like LEDs, but definately no switches or jumpers. From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Apr 14 03:58:56 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:18 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:57:40 EDT." Message-ID: <200104140858.JAA01706@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Jeff Hellige said: > >keep it "all in the family" so to speak, take pictures on a classic > >camera (I love the Leica) and be even better. > > I've got a nice medium format Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex 1a. It > takes absolutely beautiful pictures in bright sunlight. Too bad > rolls of 120 film are getting more difficult to locate, especially in > color. The last time I shot with it I could only locate B/W film > locally. Find a professional camera store, 120 film is used a lot professionally. Hasselblads etc are still popular, and many new cameras have been introduced recently by other manufacturers - Bronica have just produced a rangefinder one for example. I have a Bronica S2, a Rolleiflex F and a Russian Lubitel - all over 10 yrs old, as well as some old folders. >My normal-use camera, a Canon A-1, falls well within the > 10year rule for the list, Me too - one of the best cameras ever... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Apr 14 05:12:29 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: Joel Ewy "Re: Collection list (just for phun) and wants" (Apr 13, 16:42) References: <20010410231006.PBHK1288.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> <10104130843.ZM17242@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <3AD772D7.156685CF@southwind.net> Message-ID: <10104141112.ZM18295@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 13, 16:42, Joel Ewy wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Sage II > Sage II -- I wonder if that's the same Sage that I'm aware of. [...] > It had an MC68000 and ran it's own proprietary operating system, as > far as I can remember, and a Pascal P system. I remember that it used > some kind of 80 track 5.25" floppy drives I'm sure that's the same one. I didn't know about a proprietary OS, I've only seen p-System on them, but I think you could get CP/M-68K. I met someone who claimed to have CP/M-68K for a Sage but when pressed, he couldn't find the Sage version. > and there was this game on it called > "Kings & Castles." It was just a little metal box with text terminals > hooked up to it, I believe. Yes, it has two (? I can't see it to check) RS232 ports for terminals, a printer port, and an IEEE-488 port. > Every now and then my friend and I talk > about trying to get the thing to run again so we can play that game. Probably not hard. It's a simple layout, it only uses standard ICs, and it's easy to get into and get at the PCB. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From tony.eros at machm.org Sat Apr 14 07:27:46 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Maryland (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: <3AD7BF03.978D98FC@greenbelt.com> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414082529.02ebf680@mail.njd.concentric.com> I'm in Delaware, so the neighborhood's not that much bigger! -- Tony At 11:07 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Hey Dave, > >Jeff Hellige, you and I are neighbors! Heck, Jeff was over a couple of >weeks ago >and I gave him the grand tour. I really enjoyed it. Four hours went by and it >seemed like we had barely started. We all ought to plan to get together for >trades, show-and-tell, etc. > >Computer people are a dime-a-dozen these days. Vintage computer people are >a rare >breed indeed, but I am glad I found this place. Thanks, Jeff! > >Eric > >Dave McGuire wrote: > > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) > > > > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. > > But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that > > scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp > > filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > On April 13, Jason McBrien wrote: > > > That's SUPER Impressive. What do you take pictures of? I'm always > hoping to > > > find one of those at U of M property depot, but the closest I've seen > is a > > > fetal ultrasound machine :) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dave McGuire" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:39 PM > > > Subject: Re: My Collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. > > > > They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. > > > > SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > > > > > On April 13, Tony Eros wrote: > > > > > You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things > > > get? > > > > > > > > > > -- Tony > > > > > > > > > > At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > > > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > > > > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > > > > > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > > > > > > > > > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > > > > >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the > electron > > > > > >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 14 07:38:02 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <10104140029.ZM17755@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Paradox OS for a 68K machine (eg Sage II) What kind of OS is this? > RISC OS 2 for the Acorn Archimedes machines > RISC OS 3 for the Acorn Archimedes and R260 machines > Arthur (predecessor of RISC OS) for the Archimedes A310 Is there any relation between Arthur and RISCOS? If not, what kind of Os was Arthur? From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sat Apr 14 07:43:52 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... Message-ID: <20010414124352.F405220F3B@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-04-14 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl 8< snip >8 >I am also looking for the pinout of the TK50 connector if anyone >has it. >-tony TUK50 board J1 Connector signals and pin numbering ----------------------------------------------------------------- Pin number Signal name Pin number Signal name ----------------------------------------------------------------- J1-01 Ground J1-14 DR RD CLK L J1-02 WRT Data H J1-15 DR RD CLK H J1-03 WRT Data L J1-16 Ground J1-04 Ground J1-17 Read Data L J1-05 DR CMD H J1-18 Read Data H J1-06 DR CMD L J1-19 Ground J1-07 Ground J1-20 DR Status H J1-08 WRT Gate H J1-21 DR Status L J1-09 WRT Gate L J1-22 Ground J1-10 Ground J1-23 DR WRT CLK H J1-11 Erase L J1-24 DR WRT CLK L J1-12 Erase H J1-25 Ground J1-13 Ground J1-26 Ground ----------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, I am looking for a TUK50 board if anyone has a spare. My 11/84 won't read TK50 tapes. The drive is OK, and sending commands direct to the CSR of the board does not provoke a reaction, so I assume the board is broken. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 07:45:33 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: <200104140858.JAA01706@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200104140858.JAA01706@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: >a rangefinder one for example. I have a Bronica S2, a Rolleiflex F and a >Russian Lubitel - all over 10 yrs old, as well as some old folders. I've never used one of the Roli's, but based on the ones I've seen, they certainly look like nice cameras. Very similar to the Ikoflex. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 07:50:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be >willing to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin >cable). The BCC05 is also a 9pin (female) to 25pin (female) cable Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 07:52:31 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <20010414061338.QKFD8469.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <002501c0c41a$3c9d27e0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <20010414061338.QKFD8469.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: > > If you want good key action, check out the old XT and AT/ PS/2 REAL IBM >> keyboards for the keyswitches :) > >Click, click, clack...provided that can stand that noise. That's what always annoyed me about them. I'm one of those that always liked disabling the keyclick when possible. Both the 5155 and 8173 keyboards make a nice racket in use! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 07:56:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Maryland (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010414082529.02ebf680@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010414082529.02ebf680@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: Tony, The most time I've spent in Delaware is the 10 minutes or so that I-95 spends crossing through the state before it goes into PA! Jeff >I'm in Delaware, so the neighborhood's not that much bigger! > >-- Tony -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 14 08:02:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > That's how the DigiView works on the Amiga, though instead of > the supplied color wheel and a video camera to capture the images I > use a good quality VCR or 8mm camcorder, good quality cables, and a > color splitter. I still have to do the 3 seperate captures though. > Of course, the DigiView doesn't offer anywhere near the resolution > that you're talking about either but for 1985 it was pretty > impressive. When we (SUGA) took pictures of our old hideout, we used a Canon ION still video camera (weren't they hip ten years ago) for the snaps and then captured them using a VLab in my Amiga. The VLab can snap an FBAS image in real time and split it, so you won't need the colour wheel. I've also got a Vidi Amiga, though, with accompanying colour splitter, but haven't tried it as of yet. Doesn't seem as compelling with slow-scan equipment. =) When we documented our new place (http://www.sua.f2s.com/fotografier/), we used a digital video camera, but its snap functions left a lot ot be desired, especially considering that the images were digitally transferred. When compared to the ION snaps grabbed through composite, they looked just as bad, if not worse. I still prefer paper, though. It's fairly high-resoluting and easy to display to people without computers. =) From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 14 08:04:08 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Preferred method of archiving CBM disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Richard A. Cini, Jr. wrote: > I have a bit of down time, so I wanted to make archival copies of the > Commodore disks that I have. I have an old copy of X1541 which I was going > to use, but I wanted to take a quick survey and see what other methods list > members use? I'd say a particularly suitable solution would be the Catweasel floppy controller. It's extremely versatile, capable of controlling and reading just about every file system and floppy format on earth. It's available both as an ISA and Zorro card and works with both AmigaOS, DOS and Linux. From guerney at bigpond.com Sat Apr 14 08:16:31 2001 From: guerney at bigpond.com (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <200104132023.NAA24883@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <00c201c0c4e5$45c3f940$7937fea9@Guerney> From: > Have you tried Minerals? They're amazing under an electron microscope! Now that is what I do every day! My job involves looking after a facility with two (very modern) electron microscopes that spend all day (and all night - they are automated) looking at minerals.... Phil From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Apr 14 08:41:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION References: <3AD715D8.9B5E68C4@greenbelt.com> <005a01c0c42e$4c32a0e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD7B6F2.726BC974@greenbelt.com> <000901c0c4ad$1481a180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3AD8539C.476F2825@greenbelt.com> Comments below. Richard Erlacher wrote: > Back in the late '70's there were no "high-res" systems that were common enough > to provide a basis for comparison, as the Apple][ was what most folks called > "high-res". One of my guys bought several different graphics cards and the > MicroAngelo was one of them. This one, from what I could tell was intended for > monochrome use, however, though I remember seeing some ads for a 16-color > version. > > The board has a local Z80A processor that apparently processes high-level > commands (line-draw, fill, etc.) as it receives them from the host processor. > The fellow, a programmer, who bought the thing concluded it didn't have enough > firmware space and started to hack the board for more EPROM space, but never > completed the job. When the dust settled, I found that I had one sheet of the > schematic, which I remember seeing a month or so ago, and some other doc's, but > certainly not a complete set. Also, the memory access multiplexing logic was > obscured in the schematic by the folks who published it. We ended up using a > graphics board of my own design since we could build ours for a fraction of what > the MicroAngelo cost. This board, IIRC, produces a 512x480 raster, though I've > never seen one at work. The User's Manual I have for MicroAngelo (I can upload a photo if you like) is about 100 pages. The last six or so are schematics which appear to be complete. The first schematic shows the Z-80A CPU with four 2708/2716 EPROMs. Only the first 10 address lines are used, which IS limited. Do you have the monitor? Eric > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Chomko" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:33 PM > Subject: Re: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Yes, I've got one, though it has been hacked into non-functionality. I > haven't > > > got all the schematics, and the ones issued with the device were not > complete to > > > begin with. > > > > > > > What exactly do you have? I too have one but it lacks a controller card, > however the > > manuals > > are excellent. Not being an S-100 type I really have no use for it. > > > > I have the hi-res monitor, cable and docs. > > > > BTW, oneof my profs that taught the microcomputer class was VP at SCION at the > time > > of > > MicroAngelo. > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > It was, indeed, a high-res graphics board, for the S-100, that had its own > > > resident processor and responded to high-level commands for drawing and > filling. > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Eric Chomko" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:06 AM > > > Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > > > > > Anyone ever heard of it or have one? I pretty sure it was a hi-res > > > > graphics system (back in 1980) for S-100 systems. > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Apr 14 08:43:59 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Maryland (was Re: My Collection) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010414082529.02ebf680@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <3AD8541F.D3D9DF1C@greenbelt.com> Del a where?! No seriously, I prefer your beaches to ours. I your sales tax cannot be beat! Eric Tony Eros wrote: > I'm in Delaware, so the neighborhood's not that much bigger! > > -- Tony > > At 11:07 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >Hey Dave, > > > >Jeff Hellige, you and I are neighbors! Heck, Jeff was over a couple of > >weeks ago > >and I gave him the grand tour. I really enjoyed it. Four hours went by and it > >seemed like we had barely started. We all ought to plan to get together for > >trades, show-and-tell, etc. > > > >Computer people are a dime-a-dozen these days. Vintage computer people are > >a rare > >breed indeed, but I am glad I found this place. Thanks, Jeff! > > > >Eric > > > >Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) > > > > > > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power transistors. > > > But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've seen in that > > > scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown tungsten lamp > > > filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > > > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > > > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > > > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > > > On April 13, Jason McBrien wrote: > > > > That's SUPER Impressive. What do you take pictures of? I'm always > > hoping to > > > > find one of those at U of M property depot, but the closest I've seen > > is a > > > > fetal ultrasound machine :) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dave McGuire" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:39 PM > > > > Subject: Re: My Collection > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got motivated and took a few pics of it just a few minutes ago. > > > > > They can be seen at http://www.neurotica.com/sem if you're interested. > > > > > SEMs are some of the coolest devices ever put together, in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > > > > > > > On April 13, Tony Eros wrote: > > > > > > You've got an electron microscope? Cool! How small do those things > > > > get? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > At 11:51 AM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > >On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > > > > > > Do you tinker with the operating system code at all? Does anyone > > > > > > > > care about the RT-11 Operating System? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > > > > > >running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the > > electron > > > > > > >microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Apr 14 09:07:52 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: 20,046 pages of scanned old docs online? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414085920.00bbc7d0@pc> I've received all the files from the guy who scanned 20,046 pages of the classic docs listed below, at 300 to 400 DPI, as G4 TIFFs. They fit on two CD-Rs, un-tarred in their own directories. I'll send copies to anyone in the world for $8. This offer expires May 30, 2001 but may be renewed. Payment accepted in PayPal to 'jfoust@threedee.com', or check, or postal MO, 6-pack of microbrew or 4 ounces of good chocolate. I'm at 235 South Main St., Jefferson, WI 53549 USA. - John www.threedee.com/jcm 6502 MOS 6502 datasheet 6502 Assembly Language Subroutines (Leventhal) AMD AMD 29000 Memory Design Handbook Am29027 Arithmetic Accelerator Am29C327 Floating Point Processor Data General C Language Reference Manual GATE User's Manual AOS/VS Internals Manual AOS/VS Programmer's Manual, volume 1 AOS/VS System Calls Dictionary CEO User's Manual Eclipse 32-bit Principles of Operation Eclipse 32-bit System Functional Characteristics Fortran-77 Environment Manual Fortran-77 Reference Manual Fairchild Clipper User's Manual IDT RISC System Programmer's Guide R3000 Assembly Language Programmer's Guide R3000 Hardware User Manuals R3000 Language Programmer's Guide High-speed CMOS databook Motorola 68000 Family Reference 68020 User's Manual 68851 User's Manual 88100 User's Manual 88200 User's Manual Linear Interface Integrated Circuits NCR 53C90A/B Advanced SCSI Controller (2 different manuals) 53C94/5/6 databook 53CF94/96-2 Fast SCSI Controller Disk Array Controller Firmware Disk Array Controller Hardware Disk Array Controller Software Floppy Disk Controller (SCSI-to-FD) National Semiconductor NS32532 Datasheet Series 32000 Programmer's Reference Manual DP8490 Enhanced Asynchronous SCSI Interface NS32CG16 Programmer's Reference Supplement Graphics Handbook Series 32000 Databook DRAM Management databook Embedded Controller Databook Ohio Scientific C4P User's Manual (2 different manuals) 65V Programmer's manual Schematics for: 502 CPU board 505 CPU board 527 24K memory board 540 Video board 542 Polled Keyboard Pinnacle Systems 2 User's manuals for their 68k machine (My P-system machine) P-system manuals IV.12 Operating System Reference Program Development Reference Application Development Guide Fortran 77 Reference Assembler Reference Weitek WTL4167 Floating-Point Coprocessor datasheet Most of these are from about 1988 to 1992, with the exception of the OSI documentation, of course, which is from 1979. From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Apr 14 09:15:31 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414091116.01d9ec60@pc> At 08:06 PM 4/13/01 -0400, you wrote: > That's how the DigiView works on the Amiga, though instead of the supplied color wheel and a video camera to capture the images I use a good quality VCR or 8mm camcorder, good quality cables, and a color splitter. Once being a Cool Friend of NewTek, I have in my collection an *un-potted* DigiView from the production line. All others were chip-sanded and epoxy-potted. I've also been in the garage where it was invented. - John From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Apr 14 09:36:40 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413154014.019a1610@208.226.86.129> <5.0.0.25.2.20010413165223.019a1890@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD86078.446B56C@idirect.com> >Chuck McManis wrote: > Yup, this was one of my first things I tried. Then running it not connected > to the TQK50. Neither will get it to rewind. Jerome Fine replies: Since you have probably spent more time already than it will take to do the job manually, you might as well try it at this point. As far as I know, all TK50/TK70 drives have an access hole for a star screwdriver underneath the drive from the bottom. If your black plastic sled is from a disk drive, it may be necessary to first take off the sled, but all the correct tape drive sleds have a notch where the access hole is located to allow that star screwdriver access to the rewind slot. Just gently turn the take-up reel until the tape is fully rewound. If you need to use force, then something is stuck. Don't force it if you want to save the tape. Once you get the tape out, the drive will also probably start to work again as well, but first test the drive with a blank tape. Please let us know if it works - I have not had to do this for a long time and I may not remember some of the details or problems. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From fernande at internet1.net Sat Apr 14 09:53:09 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010413122831.09005008@mail.njd.concentric.com> <15063.18407.614371.344797@phaduka.neurotica.com> <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20010413155222.019a14a0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD86455.37583594@internet1.net> No not Um :-) UM, as in leaving the "of" out of abreviation, for University of Maryland. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Um what? > > At 06:43 PM 4/13/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >U of M is Michigan :-) I thought Maryland was just UM? > > > >Chad Fernandez > >Michigan, USA > > > >Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > > > U of M as in Maryland? I'm in Laurel. :-) From Demon02554 at aol.com Sat Apr 14 09:56:41 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Maryland (was Re: My Collection) Message-ID: <42.1370954b.2809bf29@aol.com> In a message dated 4/14/01 8:35:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tony.eros@machm.org writes: << I'm in Delaware, so the neighborhood's not that much bigger! -- Tony >> hey hey im in Northern Virginia.... Robert From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Apr 14 10:35:04 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD86E28.FCC1DA0D@dragonsweb.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > > Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be willing > to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin cable). > > --Chuck Back when I was an impoverished student, I used to go to the local Radio Shack every few weeks to see if they had gotten an 8080A in stock. Never did get one, or build an S-100 machine like I wanted. I have 9918A's around here, but no 9918's. Unfortunately I don't have any DEC cables. I do have a number of similiar TI 990 serial cables, but I'll most likely be needing them. I am looking for V9938, V9958, and other MSX II+ video chips. jbdigriz.  From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sat Apr 14 10:34:10 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 -- BA11-A help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there anyone here with experience working on a PDP-11/24 in a BA11-A box?? I am trying to more mine from a broken BA11-L to a working BA11-A and I need some help with where one of the cables from the control panel goes. Anyone?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 10:57:34 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: VAX sourcefiles for colour framebuffers Message-ID: <003401c0c4fb$a13bf370$0100a8c0@jack> Does anybody here have the sourcefiles (or a source for them) that drive the SPX and GPX framebuffers of vax 3100 or so vintage (the terminal vt1300 seems to support them too) ? Possibly in ASCII, as I can't read microfiches... I'd like to try my hand at an 8bit xserver on netBSD/vax on these machines. No: port-vax@netbsd.org is not a source. Fred -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/f88ca3dc/attachment.html From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Apr 14 10:50:17 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AD871B9.14F8500A@dragonsweb.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > > Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be willing > to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin cable). > > --Chuck Wups. I take that back. I have a 99/4 (no A) that has a 9918 in it. jbdigriz From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 14 09:56:04 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <15063.21957.999286.36976@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power > transistors. But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've > seen in that scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown > tungsten lamp filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. Amazing! It looks like the leaves of a plant of some sort. Ok, now I want one of these very badly. Too bad I didn't pick up the one that was offered to me a couple years ago :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 14 11:13:10 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Preferred method of archiving CBM disks In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Apr 13, 1 09:34:38 pm" Message-ID: <200104141613.JAA07652@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have a bit of down time, so I wanted to make archival copies of the > Commodore disks that I have. I have an old copy of X1541 which I was going > to use, but I wanted to take a quick survey and see what other methods list > members use? Don't use X1541, use Star Commander (http://sta.c64.org/) with any of the X1541-series cables. It works really well -- just make sure you have a Commodore floppy drive free. I archive disks with this method all the time as .d64s. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If a seagull flies over the sea, what flies over the bay? ------------------ From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 14 10:04:22 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > I guess if the early 1970's counts as fairly late, anyway... I can't > speak for the 60's, but in the early 70's Samsonite (yes, the suitcase > people) had a plant in Englewood making an 18 bit minicomputer. They > called the company Electronic Processors, Inc. Colorado is more of a > semiconductor fabrication area, really... Though I'm sure most people > on this list will recognize Otrona... Cool! Singer also made computers in the early 70s. I have a bare PCB cut in half with a Singer label on it. I wonder if any complete machines survived? Do you have any Samsonite computers, Will? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 11:54:11 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: VAX sourcefiles for colour framebuffers Message-ID: <01cb01c0c504$0bb360a0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Fred deBros Does anybody here have the sourcefiles (or a source for them) that drive the SPX and GPX framebuffers of vax 3100 or so vintage (the terminal vt1300 seems to support them too) ? Possibly in ASCII, as I can't read microfiches... I'd like to try my hand at an 8bit xserver on netBSD/vax on these machines. No: port-vax@netbsd.org is not a source. I dont believe they ever got it working or at best only tentatively. If memeory serves a lack of information about it was a problem. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 11:46:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: 8080A & TI 9918 Message-ID: <01ca01c0c504$0b1aa310$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be willing >to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin cable). The cable you can make. 8080As are common enough I have a tube of them as well as NEC8080, 8080AF and a few Intel White ceramic with date codes in the 1975 region. The 9918 however is a bit more scarce. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 11:44:22 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) Message-ID: <01c901c0c504$0aa1f0a0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: James B. DiGriz > >A corporate budget backing you up would help. Only a little. It was the chip level microprocessor and memory marketing arm. Total number of people about 100. Allison From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Apr 14 12:06:49 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You and I both Sellam - this is like looking at stuff when we were in grade school - like the fly that looked like a monster. Is this machine one the large heavy ones I've seen in older books or have they brought the electromicrograph machines to a reasonable size? I'd hate to even ask what one surplus would set a person back. Maybe Dave can get a photo of his stuff in place and put it in the image library as well for use to take a look at. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:56 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My Collection > > > On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > So far I've found endless fascination in chips and power > > transistors. But, the most unbelievably fascinating thing that I've > > seen in that scope was something I thought would be boring...a blown > > tungsten lamp filament! I just did some quick scans of some of the > > electromicrographs I've done lately. They can be seen at > > http://www.neurotica.com/sem/images if you're interested. The blown > > tungsten lamp filament pics are filament-1.jpg and filament-2.jpg. > > Amazing! It looks like the leaves of a plant of some sort. > > Ok, now I want one of these very badly. Too bad I didn't pick up the one > that was offered to me a couple years ago :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 12:10:54 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: DECmate II stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Since we have so many DEC enthusiasts on this list, I was wondering if anyone had any of the OS's for the DECmate II on RX50 disks? I have WPS and the APU board with CP/M but would like to get some of the other OS variants for the machine. Other than the APU option, it also has both the hard disk and color graphics option boards. Was there ever much of anything that took advantage of the color graphics board? Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Apr 14 12:17:57 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: <3AD88645.83EF31F2@dragonsweb.org> Without conducting a detailed inventory: TI: TI 99/4 (1) Currently disassembled, as I received it. TI 99/4A (I'd have to count them all) Enough to build 3 or 4 full systems with loaded p-boxes. Much software, documentation, and literature, including sekrit internal TI software specs, source code, etc. 3rd party hardware and addons eg ramdisk, 128/512K cards, DSDD controller, graphics tablet, barcode reader, p-code, etc. etc. etc. Myarc 9640 Geneve (1) 512K TMS9995/V9938 SBC for TI p-box. Full system includes Myarc HFDC MFM disk, floppy, QIC-02 controller. Multi-tasking OS, 5-6x 4A speed, 4a hardware emulation. Licensed native-mode P-system port specifically for this machine. TI VPU200 (1) This is basically a "luggable" (49 lbs) TM990-100M micro with a 5TI sequencer interface. Options for other TI PLC interfaces and has CRU bus to interface to 990 and 960. Need software and docs. TI 990/1 (1) Intelligent Terminal or Small Business Computer. Needs FD800 or FD1000 disk subsystem and software. Have *ample* docs. TI 990/10 (1) 13-slot chassis, TTL, mapping option. DS10 and DS50 drives on separate consoles. Need software, more docs, tape, drives need *much* work. In 70"(?) 990/4 rack cabinet. Assorted extra boards, cabling, leased-line modems (P202T mostly.) TI 911 VDT's (3) I'm hoping to get an Explorer real soon now, along with a lot more TI stuff. 10-year-rule PC's: Televideo 1605C (1) Disassembleed to install HD and repair keyboard Runs DOS 5.0 just fine. Compaq Deskpro 386s (1) I believe this may be one of, if not the first, Compaq 386 desktop model. KLH 195 (1) 286-12 AT clone with VGA graphics, 4Mb RAM. Assorted Tandy 1000's (3) Commodore Colt (1) bad mobo Commodere PC (2) unknown working order I have stacks of 386 and 486 machines, of course, which I mostly rob for parts, or upgrade to socket 7, having plenty of Pentium mobos lying around, but these are not classic yet, even if they are thoroughly "obsolete". Others: Altos 8000 (1) HD model, have docs and schematics, some software. Rums MP/M. C64 (1) have a couple of C64 floppy drives and monitor, too, can't remember the models. Commodore/Diablo daisywheel for CBM 8032, I think, plus parts unit. Apple IIc (1) Had an Apple IIe but I just sold it to some kid for $10. Apple Mac SE (1) flaky ps., w/ImageWriter, mice,3rd external 800k floppy, no HD, much lit, all docs except oper. manual, no software. Probably more that I'm forgetting. Wanted: TI computers, peripherals, software, docs. Interested in all kinds of stuff, but that's what I focus on. -- Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso Paul never tried to build or restore one. -- jbdigriz From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Apr 14 12:32:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: VAX sourcefiles for colour framebuffers In-Reply-To: <01cb01c0c504$0bb360a0$67749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010414103043.02102880@208.226.86.10> Regarding the port-vax development of GPX and SPX support for VAX. I don't believe it is lack of information, Bruce Lane sent Ragge the complete technical manual on the frame buffer, rather the problem was motivation. Ragge has lots of stuff to do and framebuffers are fairly low on the list. --Chuck >I dont believe they ever got it working or at best only tentatively. If >memeory serves >a lack of information about it was a problem. > >Allison From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Apr 14 12:12:58 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:45:33 EDT." Message-ID: <200104141712.SAA10395@citadel.metropolis.local> > >a rangefinder one for example. I have a Bronica S2, a Rolleiflex F and a > >Russian Lubitel - all over 10 yrs old, as well as some old folders. > > I've never used one of the Roli's, but based on the ones I've > seen, they certainly look like nice cameras. Very similar to the > Ikoflex. Rolleiflexes were just about the first practical roll film reflexes - from 1929-on. Ikoflexes came along in (I think) 1936 and were considerably cheaper, at about half the price. Just keeping the record straight ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 12:54:53 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: DECmate II stuff Message-ID: <01e101c0c50c$72564630$67749a8d@ajp166> At last memory there was the OS/278 (OS/8 for decmates) on I think it was uu.se. There was cp/m-80 for it and of course WPS which if you had all the optional software for it included a list processor, spreadsheet, and I forget the other applications. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Hellige To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, April 14, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: DECmate II stuff > Since we have so many DEC enthusiasts on this list, I was >wondering if anyone had any of the OS's for the DECmate II on RX50 >disks? I have WPS and the APU board with CP/M but would like to get >some of the other OS variants for the machine. Other than the APU >option, it also has both the hard disk and color graphics option >boards. Was there ever much of anything that took advantage of the >color graphics board? > > Thanks > Jeff >-- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 14 13:03:16 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: RE: My Collection (Russ Blakeman) References: Message-ID: <15064.37092.34971.802250@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 14, Russ Blakeman wrote: > You and I both Sellam - this is like looking at stuff when we were in grade > school - like the fly that looked like a monster. Is this machine one the > large heavy ones I've seen in older books or have they brought the > electromicrograph machines to a reasonable size? I'd hate to even ask what > one surplus would set a person back. They're all large and heavy. Because semiconductor and computer technology shrinks constantly, there's a natural assumption that everything else does too, and thus anything that's large is ancient. There's really no way to shrink the vacuum valves, pumps, high-voltage power supplies, and stuff like that...what does shrink is the control electronics, but that's really all. Generally speaking, there have been NO applicable significant advances in the major technologies that make SEMs work in the past 30 years...electron beam generation, acceleration, and steering, vacuum chamber control, phosphorescent electron->photon conversion, and high-speed scintillation detection. Until fairly recently, all new SEMs had huge panels of lights, switches, and knobs. Nowadays manufacturers are shipping SEMs with a power switch and a PeeCee running Windows that does everything between crashes. The average scientist hasn't really embraced this approach, so there's a huge business building around maintaining older-style manual-control SEMs. My SEM does happen to be pretty old, but not too old as SEMs go. It was made in 1981. I have been in contact with the guy who had maintained it under a service contract at its previous installation. He is a former employee of the company that manufactured the unit. He runs a fairly tidy business maintaining only this make and model of SEM within driving distance (he's north of me in Southern PA), he maintains fifty or sixty of them...indicating that a significant number of these 20-year-old instruments are still in service. For your SEM hunting information, count on about a ten-to-one age ratio compared to computer hardware...a 20-year-old SEM would be approximately comparable to a 2-year-old computer. > Maybe Dave can get a photo of his stuff in place and put it in the image > library as well for use to take a look at. I did that yesterday. Have a look at http://www.neurotica.com/sem. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 14 13:20:57 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: Re: My Collection (Jerome Fine) References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <15063.8348.184573.469420@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AD7BACE.CF619EB1@idirect.com> Message-ID: <15064.38153.494209.879569@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > > microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > I sounds like this is now strictly for hobby use. Not exactly. I've several monetary offers in-hand for analyses for when I finish getting it connected to the microscope. As far as I can tell Kevex shipped analyzers in this configuration until just a couple of years ago. Now their newer products are based around a Windows PeeCee that takes over twice as long to run a spectral analysis on a sample as their previous [J11 and embedded Z8000] design did. > Do you have any non-DEC > boards? What is the interface between the PDP-11 and the microscope? I have tons of them. I assume you mean in the Kevex analyzer. ;) The analyzer consists of a KDJ11 board, a third-party disk controller board, a graphics board, and a bunch of parallel I/O ports. It connects to a custom backplane containing an embedded Z8000 data cruncher, which in turn connects to a NIM bin which contains the analog front-end and detector interface and the A/D converter stuff. The detector attaches to the rear of the microscope chamber in an accessory port. > How does RT-11 perform? Are there any enhancements that you could use > at this point? It performs wonderfully. The only thing I'd like better is if it [the control software] were networkable, but since most of it talks directly to the graphics board in the qbus backplane, I doubt that'd be a likely hack candidate. The unit isn't old enough to be able to get the source out of Kevex for hobbyist use, since it's still a supported model. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 14 13:25:35 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) (Eric Chomko) References: <3AD7C15C.4C8674EB@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <15064.38431.74323.602048@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 13, Eric Chomko wrote: > Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than >Allison? I collect SBCs, eval boards, and trainers. I find that, if operable, they're a wonderful way to learn the architecture of a given microprocessor, and an excellent way to compare architectural features and shortcomings. -Dave McGuire From dburrows at netpath.net Sat Apr 14 13:24:21 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... Message-ID: <071801c0c510$2fcd34a0$76261bce@L166> Welcome to TK50 terrorism. The only thing now is to rewind manually. I typically use a battery drill with a Phillips bit. You will find a hole in the center of the PCB directly under the cartridge that exposes a Phillips screw. This is the cartridge drive spindle. On slow speed rewind it back into the cart. with the drill. What did you in are the sensors on the 2 tape rollers. If either of the rollers stick in either direction the drive decides it does not know where on the tape it is and shuts down. I use a marker on the top of the rollers to determine which roller is causing the problem. Then just watch the marks while loading a tape. Don't feel bad - I have gone through over a dozen drives to get good ones and the biggest cause failure are those roller bearings. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... >At 04:26 PM 4/13/2001 -0700, Zane wrote: >>Have you powercycled the system and told it to unload the tape? I've seen >>this before, unfortuantly I don't remember what I did to fix it. > >Yup, this was one of my first things I tried. Then running it not connected >to the TQK50. Neither will get it to rewind. > >--Chuck > From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Apr 14 13:32:11 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: 8080A & TI 9918 In-Reply-To: <01ca01c0c504$0b1aa310$67749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > The cable you can make. > I was figuring it was a matter of historical accuracy. I'm not dare going to assume anyone on this list can't make up a cable, anyway. jbdigriz From dburrows at netpath.net Sat Apr 14 13:09:47 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: PDP-11/24 -- BA11-A help needed Message-ID: <071701c0c510$2ece1420$76261bce@L166> >Is there anyone here with experience working on a PDP-11/24 in a BA11-A >box?? I am trying to more mine from a broken BA11-L to a working BA11-A >and I need some help with where one of the cables from the control panel >goes. > >Anyone?? > >bill One goes to the CPU backplane and the other goes to the power supply. The power supply connector is kind of hidden. You will need to slide the supply out about 1.5 inches in order to see it. I hope you are using a BA11-A that has the H7140-AA (IIRC) in it. IIRC the H7140-CA is only for expansion chassis. IIRC the -CA has only +5 and +/-15v. The -AA has +5, -5, +/-12v, +/- 15 Also be careful using backplanes from expansion boxes in the CPU box of the 11/24. They often have some jumpers on the supply lines ( soldered where the supply wires meet the backplane) that short the 2 sets of +/- supplies. A while back I scanned some stuff that may help you. Poke around ftp://zane.brouhaha.com I am sorry but most of the originals have been destroyed by a fire 2 months ago. Not to mention a LOT of PDP11 equipment at the same time. Dan From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 14 13:32:01 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > >> >> What this really says is that in order to connect two devices, you have > >> >>to know > >> >> precisely what you're doing. That's hard, nowadays, when the mfg's > >> >>documents > >> >> are printed in large type on a business card. Things have gone downhill. > >> > >> Someplace in my "collection" I have a "smart" cable, just plug it in and it > >> configures itself for just about anything DB25. > > > >RS-232 only. > > Actually I think it is supposed to be smart enough to handle serial/modem, > and I don't know about current loop. I haven't tried it with SCSI either, > but stranger things have happened. I think its called a smart comm so > likely SCSI is out. > > BTW this cable has NO SWITCHES, its all automatic via some internal > circuit. I forget if it has anythng fancy like LEDs, but definately no > switches or jumpers. > By IQ TECHNOLOGIES of Bellevue WA? - don From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 14 13:38:42 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries Message-ID: <200104141838.LAA09214@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, not the libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include files. (which means the included C compiler doesn't work right either, sigh). lynx would also be wonderful if you have it :-) Thanks! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Work harder! Millions on welfare depend on you! ---------------------------- From donm at cts.com Sat Apr 14 13:36:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: <10104141112.ZM18295@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 13, 16:42, Joel Ewy wrote: > > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > Sage II > > > Sage II -- I wonder if that's the same Sage that I'm aware of. > [...] > > It had an MC68000 and ran it's own proprietary operating system, as > > far as I can remember, and a Pascal P system. I remember that it used > > some kind of 80 track 5.25" floppy drives > > I'm sure that's the same one. I didn't know about a proprietary OS, I've > only seen p-System on them, but I think you could get CP/M-68K. I met > someone who claimed to have CP/M-68K for a Sage but when pressed, he > couldn't find the Sage version. I have it as a 3 DSQD disk set in TeleDisk image form. - don > > and there was this game on it called > > "Kings & Castles." It was just a little metal box with text terminals > > hooked up to it, I believe. > > Yes, it has two (? I can't see it to check) RS232 ports for terminals, a > printer port, and an IEEE-488 port. > > > Every now and then my friend and I talk > > about trying to get the thing to run again so we can play that game. > > Probably not hard. It's a simple layout, it only uses standard ICs, and > it's easy to get into and get at the PCB. > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 13:36:13 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: VAX sourcefiles for colour framebuffers Message-ID: <01f201c0c512$bf67fbc0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >Regarding the port-vax development of GPX and SPX support for VAX. I don't >believe it is lack of information, Bruce Lane sent Ragge the complete >technical manual on the frame buffer, rather the problem was motivation. >Ragge has lots of stuff to do and framebuffers are fairly low on the list. I'd forgotten that. Unfortunately many NetBSD users want a canned functional OS and cannot contribute. Ragge has done a lot fo the work and could really use help. Allison From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Apr 14 13:26:39 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <15064.37092.34971.802250@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: I was snooping on eBay and found a rebuilt Hitachi electron microscope and you're right they have'nt reduced in size much (although the one I saw in my teens filled a good sized office space at (I think) Argonne Labs near Chicago. If I had 5 grand lying around for experimental toying I'd probably have the Hitachi unit on a truck by now. I don't pay that much for the vehicles I own (yet). As with anything with a real purpose it's gonna hold a real value. It is awe-inspiring as well the way you can get way down and dirty with that stuff and see things that even a standard optical scope can't get. You have the whole world around you as well to be able to examine and photograph and I've even seen hardcopy prints at museums and science exhibits selling for quite a large sum and people going on waiting lists for more - whether for display or for actual art use. One was of salt crystals that was going for $40 and they sold all 20 copies in a standard poster-type frame within the first 30 mins. Helps pay back soem of your investment I guess. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 1:03 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: My Collection > > > On April 14, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > You and I both Sellam - this is like looking at stuff when we > were in grade > > school - like the fly that looked like a monster. Is this > machine one the > > large heavy ones I've seen in older books or have they brought the > > electromicrograph machines to a reasonable size? I'd hate to > even ask what > > one surplus would set a person back. > > They're all large and heavy. Because semiconductor and computer > technology shrinks constantly, there's a natural assumption that > everything else does too, and thus anything that's large is ancient. > There's really no way to shrink the vacuum valves, pumps, high-voltage > power supplies, and stuff like that...what does shrink is the control > electronics, but that's really all. Generally speaking, there have > been NO applicable significant advances in the major technologies that > make SEMs work in the past 30 years...electron beam generation, > acceleration, and steering, vacuum chamber control, phosphorescent > electron->photon conversion, and high-speed scintillation detection. > > Until fairly recently, all new SEMs had huge panels of lights, > switches, and knobs. Nowadays manufacturers are shipping SEMs with a > power switch and a PeeCee running Windows that does everything between > crashes. The average scientist hasn't really embraced this approach, > so there's a huge business building around maintaining older-style > manual-control SEMs. My SEM does happen to be pretty old, but not too > old as SEMs go. It was made in 1981. I have been in contact with the > guy who had maintained it under a service contract at its previous > installation. He is a former employee of the company that > manufactured the unit. He runs a fairly tidy business maintaining > only this make and model of SEM within driving distance (he's north of > me in Southern PA), he maintains fifty or sixty of them...indicating > that a significant number of these 20-year-old instruments are still > in service. > > For your SEM hunting information, count on about a ten-to-one age > ratio compared to computer hardware...a 20-year-old SEM would be > approximately comparable to a 2-year-old computer. > > > Maybe Dave can get a photo of his stuff in place and put it in the image > > library as well for use to take a look at. > > I did that yesterday. Have a look at http://www.neurotica.com/sem. > > -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 12:44:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <006001c0c485$64836100$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 13, 1 07:51:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1795 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/53865df3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 12:51:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <3AD7C15C.4C8674EB@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Apr 13, 1 11:17:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/dec21747/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 12:57:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:19 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: <20010414124352.F405220F3B@mail.iae.nl> from "kees.stravers@iae.nl" at Apr 14, 1 02:43:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 620 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/57231260/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 13:01:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Apr 14, 1 08:04:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 308 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/659ba242/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 13:06:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010413230000.00a09ab0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Apr 13, 1 11:00:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 796 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/17c6d3db/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 13:50:16 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: <071801c0c510$2fcd34a0$76261bce@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Apr 14, 1 02:24:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/e657fb90/attachment.ksh From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Apr 14 13:57:29 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 8080A & TI 9918 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote: > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > > > > > The cable you can make. > > > > I was figuring it was a matter of historical accuracy. I'm not dare going > to assume anyone on this list can't make up a cable, anyway. > > jbdigriz > I *definitely* meant to put a smiley on this. jbdigriz From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 14:06:40 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION References: <3AD715D8.9B5E68C4@greenbelt.com> <005a01c0c42e$4c32a0e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD7B6F2.726BC974@greenbelt.com> <000901c0c4ad$1481a180$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3AD8539C.476F2825@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <003101c0c516$09bfefe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> No, the only thing we acquired was the PC board, some firmware and a demo program. I don't think I remember seeing the thing in operation, however. I've got lots of high-resolution monitors and the like, so I'm not interested in acquiring even one more until I dispose of about five of the things. From what I remember, there was nothing particularly special about the hardware that was available with the S-100 board. I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the board, just to see whether it's the same board. The number of address lines was, indeed, the ROM problem. IIRC, because we had lots of 2732's lying about, the decision was made to add space for special drawing routines. Unfortunately, the task was abandoned when it was determined that the single Z80A was far too slow for what we needed. What we used was a board of our own design, which, as it turned out, WAS able to meet timing requirements, while the MicroAngelo board was calculated to be 10x too slow. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Chomko" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:41 AM Subject: Re: MircoAngelo from SCION > Comments below. > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Back in the late '70's there were no "high-res" systems that were common enough > > to provide a basis for comparison, as the Apple][ was what most folks called > > "high-res". One of my guys bought several different graphics cards and the > > MicroAngelo was one of them. This one, from what I could tell was intended for > > monochrome use, however, though I remember seeing some ads for a 16-color > > version. > > > > The board has a local Z80A processor that apparently processes high-level > > commands (line-draw, fill, etc.) as it receives them from the host processor. > > The fellow, a programmer, who bought the thing concluded it didn't have enough > > firmware space and started to hack the board for more EPROM space, but never > > completed the job. When the dust settled, I found that I had one sheet of the > > schematic, which I remember seeing a month or so ago, and some other doc's, but > > certainly not a complete set. Also, the memory access multiplexing logic was > > obscured in the schematic by the folks who published it. We ended up using a > > graphics board of my own design since we could build ours for a fraction of what > > the MicroAngelo cost. This board, IIRC, produces a 512x480 raster, though I've > > never seen one at work. > > The User's Manual I have for MicroAngelo (I can upload a photo if you like) is about > 100 pages. > The last six or so are schematics which appear to be complete. > > The first schematic shows the Z-80A CPU with four 2708/2716 EPROMs. Only the first > 10 address lines are used, which IS limited. > > Do you have the monitor? > > Eric > > > > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Eric Chomko" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 8:33 PM > > Subject: Re: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I've got one, though it has been hacked into non-functionality. I > > haven't > > > > got all the schematics, and the ones issued with the device were not > > complete to > > > > begin with. > > > > > > > > > > What exactly do you have? I too have one but it lacks a controller card, > > however the > > > manuals > > > are excellent. Not being an S-100 type I really have no use for it. > > > > > > I have the hi-res monitor, cable and docs. > > > > > > BTW, oneof my profs that taught the microcomputer class was VP at SCION at the > > time > > > of > > > MicroAngelo. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was, indeed, a high-res graphics board, for the S-100, that had its own > > > > resident processor and responded to high-level commands for drawing and > > filling. > > > > > > > > Dick > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Eric Chomko" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:06 AM > > > > Subject: MircoAngelo from SCION > > > > > > > > > Anyone ever heard of it or have one? I pretty sure it was a hi-res > > > > > graphics system (back in 1980) for S-100 systems. > > > > > > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 14:15:56 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <005301c0c517$54cb4060$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Actually, I don't think the standard prohibits anything in terms of how the lines are used. If you sneak power from one or another of them, that's fine. I must have misunderstood what you wrote to say that there was a signal redefined as BUSY, while there's no reason you can't use a signal on the DB25 for more or less any purpose. There are some that are defined in a way that might discourage you from using a signal as handshake or status signal, but there's really no reason you have to use CTS or DTR in the usual way. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:44 AM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > > I've revisited the RS232 signal definitions and can't see one called "busy". I > > No, and you can't find one called 'mouse power' either, for all many > serial mice take their power from the RS232 port.... > > Seriously, I guess such printers probably shouldn't be called 'RS232' > because they most definitely use some of the hardware handshake lines in > ways that the standard forbids. On the other hand, just about all 'RS232' > devices do that now. > > It has become a de-facto standard to use RTS/CTS and/or DSR/DTR as > hardware handshake lines. In the sense that if you are transmitting, you > look at the state of the CTS input, and only transmit when it's asserted. > This _is_ contrary to the official RS232 standard, agreed. > > If you do use RTS/CTS like that, it would be reasonable to call CTS a > READY or BUSY input (the only difference between those 2 for a printer is > the polarity). > > > know about software handshaking, and even hardware handshaking, but I don't know > > of a 'busy" signal. Which pin is that? > > If you want a silly answer : Pin 11. After all, that's where most > printers seem to put it. > > I have just picked up the user manual for the DEC Letterprinter 210 > (basically an LA100 in a different box!). There is a table (page 25 in my > edition) that is headed : > > 'The printer supports the folloing RS232C interface signals > > Pin Source Name Function > > [...] > > 11 Printer BUSY Restraint > > [...] ' > > Now, I happen to know that is not part of the official RS232 spec, but it > certainly seems to be a de-facto standard... > > Although, interestingly, the next section in the manual (setting the DIP > switches) includes the line : > 'Set switch A-1 down for transmission restraint using the EIA BUSY > control line.' > > So maybe it did later become part of an EIA spec? > > -tony > > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Apr 14 14:16:59 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: References: <10104141112.ZM18295@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414141318.01ebe3e0@pc> At 11:36 AM 4/14/01 -0700, you wrote: > I met >> someone who claimed to have CP/M-68K for a Sage but when pressed, he >> couldn't find the Sage version. > >I have it as a 3 DSQD disk set in TeleDisk image form. I just picked up a Sage IV with a Liberty terminal for the cost of shipping, but I haven't inventoried the disks yet. Someone decided I'd be a good home for the -System side of it, given my web page at www.threedee.com/jcm . Manuals and books were included, and I remember seeing one for CP/M, so I suspect I have a set of disks for the Sage IV. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Apr 14 14:10:57 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414140906.01d9ec60@pc> At 12:06 PM 4/14/01 -0500, you wrote: >You and I both Sellam - this is like looking at stuff when we were in grade >school - like the fly that looked like a monster. Is this machine one the >large heavy ones I've seen in older books or have they brought the >electromicrograph machines to a reasonable size? I'd hate to even ask what >one surplus would set a person back. They'll be as easy to get as a PDP, I suspect. From reading the microscopy mailing list I mentioned a few messages ago, when these electron microscopes get to be 10-25 years old, people tend to give them away for the hauling. - John From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 14:20:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: Message-ID: <005d01c0c517$eeb2f880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This is apparently not universally true, as I have one now partially disassembled/cannibalized keyboard (Microswitch) that has individially removable switches. Once they're removed and used elsewhere, it doesn't matter what sort of switches are used. With switches of which the underlying PCB is a component, you're stuck with using the PCB and associated switch layout, which is a bummer! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > If you want good key action, check out the old XT and AT/ PS/2 REAL IBM > > keyboards for the keyswitches :) > > Bad idea -- AFAIK none of the IBM keyboards have individual keyswitches. > The PC/XT/Portable keyboards have a strange capacitive mechanism -- > pressing a key moves a plastic flap onto the circuit board that increases > the capacitance between 2 traces. The AT and PS/2 keyboards actually > have membrane-type contacts, although with a similar plastic flap > mechanism to operate them. > > In either case it's almost impossible to split the keyboard up into > individual keys. > > FWIW, I have seen keyboard switches in the electronics catalogues over > here relatively recently. Only problem is, they are _very_ expensive > compared to the price of a PC keyboard. But you can get them. > > -tony > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 14 14:38:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: RE: My Collection (John Foust) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414140906.01d9ec60@pc> Message-ID: <15064.42806.574290.37856@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 14, John Foust wrote: > At 12:06 PM 4/14/01 -0500, you wrote: > >You and I both Sellam - this is like looking at stuff when we were in grade > >school - like the fly that looked like a monster. Is this machine one the > >large heavy ones I've seen in older books or have they brought the > >electromicrograph machines to a reasonable size? I'd hate to even ask what > >one surplus would set a person back. > > They'll be as easy to get as a PDP, I suspect. From reading the > microscopy mailing list I mentioned a few messages ago, when these > electron microscopes get to be 10-25 years old, people tend > to give them away for the hauling. I wouldn't say that's a universal thing. I personally know of about 30-40 perfectly functional, daily-use SEM installations, NONE of which are less than 20 years old. -Dave McGuire From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Apr 14 14:39:54 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 8080A & TI 9918 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <002501c0c51a$fd14e340$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Can you describe the cable in more detail, I might have one Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck McManis To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:36 AM Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 > Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be willing > to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin cable). > > --Chuck > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Apr 14 14:51:52 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414140906.01d9ec60@pc> Message-ID: Well I'm wating for someone to call me and give me an address to show up at with a truck (grin) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 2:11 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: My Collection > > > At 12:06 PM 4/14/01 -0500, you wrote: > >You and I both Sellam - this is like looking at stuff when we > were in grade > >school - like the fly that looked like a monster. Is this machine one the > >large heavy ones I've seen in older books or have they brought the > >electromicrograph machines to a reasonable size? I'd hate to > even ask what > >one surplus would set a person back. > > They'll be as easy to get as a PDP, I suspect. From reading the > microscopy mailing list I mentioned a few messages ago, when these > electron microscopes get to be 10-25 years old, people tend > to give them away for the hauling. > > - John > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 14:53:04 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics Message-ID: <022301c0c51d$419bb1e0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> >> I've revisited the RS232 signal definitions and can't see one called "busy". I > >Seriously, I guess such printers probably shouldn't be called 'RS232' >because they most definitely use some of the hardware handshake lines in >ways that the standard forbids. On the other hand, just about all 'RS232' >devices do that now. There are RS232 lines to arbitrate TX/RX data flow. Though the better Serial interfaced printers not only allowed for this they also used Xon/Xoff serial protocal for buffer management. >I have just picked up the user manual for the DEC Letterprinter 210 >(basically an LA100 in a different box!). There is a table (page 25 in my >edition) that is headed : I have one and it's one very nice printer still. It's used is mostly on the DEC and CP/M systems that didn't support parallel IO or as a connector convenience on my part. All of those systems the driver supports the Xon/Xoff flow control as it was very easy to do. > >'The printer supports the folloing RS232C interface signals > >Pin Source Name Function > >[...] > >11 Printer BUSY Restraint > >[...] ' > >Now, I happen to know that is not part of the official RS232 spec, but it >certainly seems to be a de-facto standard... It is but look at the EIA line there and its name and function. Different name is the problem. It was used for HALFduplex modems to arbitrate flow. The DEC parlance prefered the three wire signaling with signal common and TXD and RXD using xon/xoff flow control. If the connection was used with wider signals then DTR/CTS were added to signal mostly that something was connected. Allison From ewy at southwind.net Sat Apr 14 15:05:02 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Sage (Was Collection list...) References: Message-ID: <3AD8AD6D.DD2F2BD3@southwind.net> Tony Duell wrote: ... > Err, one thing about the Sage is that it's so darn _easy_ to repair. > There is one large PCB with everything on it. It sits at the top of the > case with the drives and PSU under it, so it's trivial to look at signals > on the IC pins. All the chips are standard, off-the-shelf parts (well, the > EPROMs are programmed, of course). All chips are in sockets. and there are > schematics in the user guide. > > What more do you want :-)... > That's what I like to hear! However, I was talking with my friend who owns it today, and he didn't think it was broken, so that memory must have been an uninitialized variable. > > > far as I can remember, and a Pascal P system. I remember that it used some > > The standard OS was the P-system. I think CP/M-68K was also available. I > don't know if anything else was ported to it. > CP/M-68K would be fun. > > > kind of 80 track 5.25" floppy drives and there was this game on it called > > ... > If you need a hand, I have the manual for mine alongside me, so I can > suggest tests, etc. Does it do _anything_ at switch-on? > > -tony Thanks. I need to convince him to dig it out and see what it does. Maybe there's nothing wrong with the machine, but something wrong with him! -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@south_NOSPAM_wind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 15:13:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <005d01c0c517$eeb2f880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 14, 1 01:20:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1024 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/d7db1bea/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Apr 14 15:23:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Commodore Colt (was Re: My Collection) In-Reply-To: <3AD7BCFF.1E1B179E@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010414202322.84393.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > I have a WD 40AP, which is an external HD with two female DB-25 connectors > (SCSI?) on it. Possibly. What's the connection to the drive? If it's 50-pin, in all likelyhood, it's narrow SCSI. > The rotating selector switch is from 0-F (all single hex digits, 16 in all, > twice what a Mac has -weird SCSI?). I've seen external SCSI devices (SCSI ethernet, for example) that used the second set of numbers to enable termination - 9 = SCSI ID 1 with termination enabled. > Could this device be what the C Colt can use? Colts used internal 8-bit IDE drives (X suffix). It has 40 pins, just like an AT IDE drive, but different at the register level (AT IDE emulates a WD-1003 controller; I don't know what XT IDE emulates). You can stick an 8-bit MFM/RLL controller in a Colt and go that route, too. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dburrows at netpath.net Sat Apr 14 15:27:05 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... Message-ID: <074f01c0c521$74ba8f70$76261bce@L166> >> What did you in are the sensors on the 2 tape rollers. If either of the >> rollers stick in either direction the drive decides it does not know where >> on the tape it is and shuts down. I use a marker on the top of the rollers > >I assume these are the 2 rollers, about 1" in diameter, either side of >the head assembly. Correct. > >I've pulled a TK50 to bits (non-destructively), and the front roller >doesn't seen to have a sensor on it. It does appear to have a height >adjustment, which would not be the thing to twiddle. > >The rear roller has a slotted disk + optoswitch at the bottom end. I >assume this is the sensor you are refering to. Yes but I am sure the front one has a sensor also since the slightest heasitation there also shuts it down. I have not taken the time to find a front sensor but it must have one. > >> to determine which roller is causing the problem. Then just watch the marks >> while loading a tape. >> >> Don't feel bad - I have gone through over a dozen drives to get good ones >> and the biggest cause failure are those roller bearings. > >Is it possible to replace the bearings? I've not attempted to dismantle >the senosr (yet!), but it looks possible. Of course after doing that >you'd probably had to do a tape path and head alignment (which could be >'interesting')... The rear one is not bad but the front one does involve some alignment. Again I have not taken the time. I did try lubricating the top bearings with a syringe and still had problems. I then removed it and did the bottom bearing. It ran free then but I had alignment problems and no alignment tape or info. At that point even with over a dozen drives on the way to scrap metal it was not worth any more time to me. Dan From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 15:34:59 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: <200104141712.SAA10395@citadel.metropolis.local> References: <200104141712.SAA10395@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: > > >a rangefinder one for example. I have a Bronica S2, a Rolleiflex F and a >> >Russian Lubitel - all over 10 yrs old, as well as some old folders. >> >> I've never used one of the Roli's, but based on the ones I've >> seen, they certainly look like nice cameras. Very similar to the >> Ikoflex. > >Rolleiflexes were just about the first practical roll film reflexes - from >1929-on. Ikoflexes came along in (I think) 1936 and were considerably cheaper, >at about half the price. >Just keeping the record straight ;-) Yes, I knew that...but they are the same type of camera and have much the same configuration. I believe the Ikoflex line last into the early 70's. Unless you happen to find one at a swap meet or something, both bring a decent amount when put up for sale. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ewy at southwind.net Sat Apr 14 15:40:12 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: NewTek, DigiView (Was:Photo equimpent,and a bunch of other stuff before that) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414091116.01d9ec60@pc> Message-ID: <3AD8B5AB.79B6764@southwind.net> John Foust wrote: > At 08:06 PM 4/13/01 -0400, you wrote: > > That's how the DigiView works on the Amiga, though instead of the supplied color wheel and a video camera to capture the images I use a good quality VCR or 8mm camcorder, good quality cables, and a color splitter. > > Once being a Cool Friend of NewTek, I have in my collection > an *un-potted* DigiView from the production line. All others > were chip-sanded and epoxy-potted. I've also been in the > garage where it was invented. > > - John Was that the garage of Tim Jenison? I know he was one of the guys behind NewTek. Quick quiz: What piece of Tandy Color Computer software did Tim Jenison author before doing all that Amiga stuff? -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@southwind_UNSPAMMERIFFIC_.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 15:37:20 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: DECmate II stuff In-Reply-To: <01e101c0c50c$72564630$67749a8d@ajp166> References: <01e101c0c50c$72564630$67749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >At last memory there was the OS/278 (OS/8 for decmates) on I think it was >uu.se. There was cp/m-80 for it and of course WPS which if you had all >the >optional software for it included a list processor, spreadsheet, and I >forget the other applications. > >Allison Yes, I have CP/M and the full WPS. It's OS/278 I'm looking for, though I had thought there were one or two others that ran on the DECmate II as well. I could be wrong there though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 14 16:46:23 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: ["Smart Cable" for "ANY DB25"] > Actually I think it is supposed to be smart enough to handle serial/modem, > and I don't know about current loop. I haven't tried it with SCSI either, > but stranger things have happened. I think its called a smart comm so > likely SCSI is out. Not just "likely", ABSOLUTELY! When you are ready to try it for non RS232 stuff, such as parallel, SCSI, current loop, etc., please do the experiments on something disposable, such as a current "state of the art" PC, or using disposable ISA cards and printers, etc. Please don't toast any classics. Let's look at HOW you would design something like that to work. It does NOT connect all 25 wires, so it CANNOT possibly work for SCSI, parallel, etc. It attempts to come up with the right combinations of pins 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, and 20. 1 and 7 are ground (chassis and signal). It needs to take pins 2 and 3 ("Transmit" and "Receive") and decide whether to send them straight through or cross them over. Then it needs to figure out which ones of 4,5,6,8, and 20 need to be passed through, which need to be crossed over with others, and which need to be looped back to others on the same side. A well designed circuit can do some wondrous things, but will still have major limitations. Many of the weird corruptions of the RS232 standard will not be supported. Hence, they would NOT work on the things that I was trying to do. For programmers with soldering irons (such as myself), "The RS232 Solution" by Joe Campbell from Sybex provides a good help towards getting RS232 cabling to work. BTW, there IS a documented fatality from the frustrations of serial interfacing. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 16:54:45 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: Message-ID: <000f01c0c52d$84ab6880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, clearly, one has to know what sort of switches are in place before deciding to use a given keyboard. Being Microswitch, it's NOT genuine IBM. If the IBM real-McCoys are unuseable there's no point in attempting to use one of them. Hall-effect switches are probably too expensive to appear in a cheapie as one would expect to see on a PC clone. What's called for in the KIM-1 case is clearly a switch, however. There's some question as to whether the relatively high-impedance contact closure provided by the type of switch you previously described would even serve in the KIM-1 case, as its scanning logic is "tuned" for simple switches. A keypad scanner circuit such as the 74C923 will "see" a 50K-ohm impedance as a closure, while I doubt that the KIM-1 circuit will see 5k as a closure. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > This is apparently not universally true, as I have one now partially > > disassembled/cannibalized keyboard (Microswitch) that has individially removable > > Is this a _genuine_ IBM keyboard? My comments refered to true IBM > keyboards only -- not clones. I've seen plenty of clone keyboards with > individual switches. > > > switches. Once they're removed and used elsewhere, it doesn't matter what sort > > of switches are used. With switches of which the underlying PCB is a component, > > It does if the external 'interface' to the switch is anything other than > a pair of contacts that are connected together when the switch is > pressed. I've seen hall-effect switches that have 4 pins -- Vcc, Ground > and 2 open-collector outputs. You could wire the outputs to row and > column lines, with a resistor pullup on each line, and when you pressed a > key the appropriate row and column line were asserted. > > Most of the time, keyboard switches are just that -- switches. Sometimes > they are some kind of electronic sensor. > > -tony > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 17:10:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: <074f01c0c521$74ba8f70$76261bce@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Apr 14, 1 04:27:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/169e80c9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 17:18:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <000f01c0c52d$84ab6880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 14, 1 03:54:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1301 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/2ef45627/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Apr 14 17:38:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives... In-Reply-To: References: <074f01c0c521$74ba8f70$76261bce@L166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010414153647.03490db0@208.226.86.10> Well the good news is that using the 'screwdriver in the drill to the hole in the bottom' I recovered the tape and attempted to boot it on a 4000/200 with a TK70. It started but the kernel failed to load. I'm guessing Ultrix 2.2 is too early for the KA660 :-) I'm going to try it with a KA640 (closer to the KA630 in lineage) and see if it recognizes that. I've yet to find the SPD for Ultrix 2.2 to tell me what it did support. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 14 17:37:57 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 14, 1 02:46:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010414/ef4838a5/attachment.ksh From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 14 17:44:06 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <000501c0c534$6aef1ac0$88f8fea9@98box> I hope you're joking, but if not, how did this occur? Electrocution? High blood pressure due to frustration? - Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:16 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics (snip) > BTW, there IS a documented fatality from the frustrations of serial > interfacing. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 14 16:52:45 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Cyber 910 Message-ID: <3AD8C6AD.178AF909@heathers.stdio.com> OK, out of the two Cyber 910's I picked up the other day, I have one good machine that is now booting up to Iris. The problem is getting past the root password. Is ther any way of bypassing it or a hack to gain root access from the console monitor? It does have a 150 Mb Archive tape drive but I have no system software for it. Thanks, Brian. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Apr 14 18:14:04 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: "Lanny Cox"'s message of "Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:14:06 -0230" References: <000501c0c534$6aef1ac0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <200104142314.f3ENE4J36678@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Fred Cisin wrote: > > BTW, there IS a documented fatality from the frustrations of serial > > interfacing. "Lanny Cox" wrote: > I hope you're joking, but if not, how did this occur? Electrocution? High > blood pressure due to frustration? I'm envisioning the frustrated party applying the frustrating device as a blunt instrument upon its designer, but somehow I expect the truth is not so satisfying. -Frank McConnell From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Apr 14 19:13:55 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: My Collection References: <01a801c0c3e3$f112af60$03fbfea9@marianca> <3AD71762.207F859A@idirect.com> <15063.8348.184573.469420@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3AD7BACE.CF619EB1@idirect.com> <15064.38153.494209.879569@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AD8E7C3.A31236F1@idirect.com> >Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 13, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > I care about it; I like it quite a bit. I have a Micro 11/73 > > > running v5.4, and a Kevex X-ray analyzer (an accessory to the electron > > > microscope) that has a pdp11/73 in it that runs RT-11. > > I sounds like this is now strictly for hobby use. > Not exactly. I've several monetary offers in-hand for analyses for > when I finish getting it connected to the microscope. Jerome Fine replies: This sounds very much like what I do. I make modifications to the RT-11 Operating System for the fun and the challenge. Right now I am working on the SL: (Single Line Editor) for about the tenth time over the past ten years. Every so often, someone comes along who needs some paid work done with RT-11. Last year with Y2K bug fixes, it was a good year. This year seems like it will be a bottom year for any paid work - in fact, it will almost certainly be a loss. What is really great is when I get to do some work that I usually do for free and get paid for it. > As far as I can tell Kevex shipped analyzers in this configuration > until just a couple of years ago. Now their newer products are based > around a Windows PeeCee that takes over twice as long to run a spectral > analysis on a sample as their previous [J11 and embedded Z8000] design > did. I once worked with a system that had a SKYMNK co-processor in an 11/23 system in the same Qbus backplane. Sounds similar. If it were not for all those special boards, you could run the system on a PC with an emulator to run RT-11. Even with the special boards, the fellow that services the system might find it possible to switch to a PC with a PCI <=> Qbus Adapter board and still run the RT-11 emulator for the stuff that RT-11 can't emulate. In most cases, however, the original manufacturer decides to toss RT-11 completely because of the cost of the RT-11 license. The adapter is even more expensive, so that solution is only when the original software investment is VERY large and RT-11 can still run the original software extremely well and the non-DEC Qbus boards can still be maintained. > > Do you have any non-DEC > > boards? What is the interface between the PDP-11 and the microscope? > I have tons of them. I assume you mean in the Kevex analyzer. ;) The > analyzer consists of a KDJ11 board, a third-party disk controller > board, a graphics board, and a bunch of parallel I/O ports. It > connects to a custom backplane containing an embedded Z8000 data > cruncher, which in turn connects to a NIM bin which contains the > analog front-end and detector interface and the A/D converter stuff. > The detector attaches to the rear of the microscope chamber in an > accessory port. This does not seem like a candidate for the emulator. But I could be wrong. > > How does RT-11 perform? Are there any enhancements that you could use > > at this point? > It performs wonderfully. The only thing I'd like better is if it [the > control software] were networkable, but since most of it talks > directly to the graphics board in the qbus backplane, I doubt that'd > be a likely hack candidate. The unit isn't old enough to be able to > get the source out of Kevex for hobbyist use, since it's still a > supported model. I know that Zane Healy has TCP/IP running on his RT-11 system on the real PDP-11. Would being able to send files back and forth using either a system job or the background job when you are not running the application programs help? I presume that you don't use the SL: (Single Line Editor) since you mostly run the application programs. Might Kevex be interested in having that added to their system? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 14 19:29:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: DECmate II stuff Message-ID: <025801c0c545$3173c5a0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > Yes, I have CP/M and the full WPS. It's OS/278 I'm looking >for, though I had thought there were one or two others that ran on >the DECmate II as well. I could be wrong there though. OS/278 is on uu.se archive if memory works. thats the only other I know of other than PS/8 which is the realtime version of OS/8 and that would take work to run on DECmate. There may be others, I can't be certain. On the other hand writing an OS for PDP-8 would be interesting as the reatime monitor and such are all around as source. Allison From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 14 18:40:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Places in Denver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > Cool! Singer also made computers in the early 70s. I have a bare PCB cut > > I've got some bits of a desktop calculator somewhere that's badged > 'Singer Friden'. I assuem the Friden name (at least) is related to the > company that made the Flexowriter, but who bought whom and when I have no > idea. Friden also made calculators until Singer bought them out sometime in the late 60s and then proceeded to run the unit into the ground :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 14 18:44:39 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > BTW, there IS a documented fatality from the frustrations of serial > interfacing. And I hope you're going to follow up with the story :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 14 20:05:03 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Serial Interfacing can be dangerous (was: 50 pin SCSI In-Reply-To: <200104142314.f3ENE4J36678@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > BTW, there IS a documented fatality from the frustrations of serial > > > interfacing. > "Lanny Cox" wrote: > > I hope you're joking, but if not, how did this occur? Electrocution? High > > blood pressure due to frustration? On 14 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > I'm envisioning the frustrated party applying the frustrating device > as a blunt instrument upon its designer, but somehow I expect the > truth is not so satisfying. About 20 years ago, a guy took his computer and new serial printer to a computer shop to have them "interfaced". After way too long with no success, he got so frustrated that he shot and killed the owner of the shop. I read about it in probably Infoworld at the time. When Joe Campbell was writing "The RS232 Solution" or "C Programmers guide to Serial Communication" (I forget which), I mentioned it to him and he tracked it down and put it into the book as a sidebar. I don't have either book handy today, but if somebody needs the reference tracked down, there is a full reference to the news story in one of those two books. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Sat Apr 14 20:34:19 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: My Collection In-Reply-To: <3AD7C3A1.AE739105@greenbelt.com> from Eric Chomko at "Apr 13, 2001 11:27:30 pm" Message-ID: <200104150134.SAA07254@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > There is a forsale newsgroup: um.forsale for U of MD. Sometimes folks > for UMich show up. 'UM' shouldn't be used, just like a state code of > simply 'M' shouldn't be used. I mean I could see the folks in Minnesota > becoming indignant with the folks from Missouri and vive versa claiming > why each SHOULD really be THE 'M'! And right about them folks from > Mississippi will chime in. UMD works unambiguously, and so on. Not unambiguously. UMD is the University of Minnesota, Duluth (which sometimes has a decent hockey team.) I still haven't gotten used to people out here meaning Washington when they say UW. The real UW is in Madison (and has a good football team.) Let the flames begin. :) Eric From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Sat Apr 14 20:42:34 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104141838.LAA09214@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Apr 14, 2001 11:38:42 am" Message-ID: <200104150142.SAA07499@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, not the > libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this > Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include files. > (which means the included C compiler doesn't work right either, sigh). lynx > would also be wonderful if you have it :-) I've got them all for 4.1.3 (if no one beats me to it.) Eric From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Apr 14 20:48:00 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413213533.02411eb0@208.226.86.10> <3AD86E28.FCC1DA0D@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3AD8FDD0.9D9A9596@greenbelt.com> "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > Speaking of classic chips, I've got an 8080A and a TI 9918 I'd be willing > > to trade for a DEC BCC08 cable (VAX 9 pin to female DB25 pin cable). > > > > --Chuck > > Back when I was an impoverished student, I used to go to the local Radio > Shack every few weeks to see if they had gotten an 8080A in stock. Never > did get one, or build an S-100 machine like I wanted. > Yeah well, that pretty much sums up the RS experience, until the 6809 system showed up they really didn't have computers. > > I have 9918A's around here, but no 9918's. Unfortunately I don't have > any DEC cables. I do have a number of similiar TI 990 serial cables, but > I'll most likely be needing them. > > I am looking for V9938, V9958, and other MSX II+ video chips. > Outta my league. Eric > > jbdigriz. >  From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 14 20:53:10 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: FSOT: "Smart Cable"s (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know anything about the "NO switch" model. I have two different ones (FSOT) BOTH are labeled as being model SC817. They are from IQ Technologies, 11811 NE 1st St, Bellevue WA 98005. Each has a male connector at one end ("Computer") and a header for connection of a cable at the other end ("Peripheral"). The docs mention an alternative model with a female connector at the computer end (for the "new" IBM PC?) One (earliest?) has a two position slide switch and three red LEDs, labelled 'M', 'T', and 'D' You are supposed to try both positions of the switch to find the one where 'M' and 'T' light, and 'D' flickers. The other has a two position slide switch, a three position slide switch, two green LEDs, one red LED, and two yellow (tri-state?) LEDs. You are supposed to set the three position switch in the middle, and set the two position switch so that both yellow lights glow; then, if one of the green LEDs glows, slide the three position switch towards it. The red LED is supposed to flicker. > > 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, and 20. 1 and 7 are ground (chassis and signal). It On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > Is it known that's all it connects? That's not even going to work with > some printers (see mu earlier messages about printers that use pin 11 as > 'busy'). I stand corrected; the docs obliquely mention "pin 11 or 19" (but only mention them as being what the "print buffer full signal polarity switch in the printer might be called" That reference to the switches in the printer is the ONLY mention of individual RS232 signals. > ways (so that a cross between, say, 20 and 5 is what's needed -- rememebr > that HP82164) then I can't see any easy way to automatically work out > what connections to make. I wish there was -- it would save me a few > hours with a breakout box sometimes. Hmmm. that sounds like a task for a dedicated microcomputer, made from say a Compaq luggable, with a program to try a lot of combinations and sense which ones produce results. Then display/print a diagram of what cable configuration worked in its simulation. It would be nice if the "smart cable" were documented for "programmers with soldering irons" as to what cable to make to replace the device (they expect you to leave the device in place). > Indeed. It sounds like another of those automatic solutions that covers > the easy cases and makes a right mess of the complex ones. A lot of > modern products are like that.... In most cases, trying this device won't hurt anything. So using it to solve the "easy cases" wouldn't be a problem. My first experience with RS232 cabling (connecting a DTC300 daisy wheel printer to a TRS-80 expansion interface) without any special tools took weeks before I knew enough of what I was doing to get ink onto paper. Thank you, Tony, for a reminder of how to proceed. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 14 20:59:50 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104150142.SAA07499@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Apr 14, 1 06:42:34 pm" Message-ID: <200104150159.SAA07624@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, not the > > libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this > > Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include files. > > (which means the included C compiler doesn't work right either, sigh). lynx > > would also be wonderful if you have it :-) > > I've got them all for 4.1.3 (if no one beats me to it.) Someone did :-) and they're even Solbourne OS/MP native. Thanks, though. (Mike Ford, the Sol performs beautifully otherwise.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Where there's a will, there's a probate. ----------------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Apr 14 17:08:56 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: Dave McGuire "Re: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)" (Apr 14, 14:25) References: <3AD7C15C.4C8674EB@greenbelt.com> <15064.38431.74323.602048@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <10104142308.ZM18978@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 14, 14:25, Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 13, Eric Chomko wrote: > > Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than > >Allison? > > I collect SBCs, eval boards, and trainers. I find that, if > operable, they're a wonderful way to learn the architecture of a given > microprocessor, and an excellent way to compare architectural features > and shortcomings. Thanks for reminding me -- I have a 2901 trainer developed by the staff at York University, which was used for Micro Architecture Design courses until a few years ago. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Apr 14 16:49:17 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants In-Reply-To: Don Maslin "Re: Collection list (just for phun) and wants" (Apr 14, 11:36) References: Message-ID: <10104142249.ZM18965@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 14, 11:36, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I didn't know about a proprietary OS, I've > > only seen p-System on them, but I think you could get CP/M-68K. I met > > someone who claimed to have CP/M-68K for a Sage but when pressed, he > > couldn't find the Sage version. > > I have it as a 3 DSQD disk set in TeleDisk image form. Hmm... the Sage is in the "heap on the shelves that need sorted" at the moment, and I haven't time to do the sorting. But I'll file that reference for the future :-) Thanks, Don! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Apr 14 21:30:06 2001 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Various manuals FS Message-ID: <200104150230.WAA22007@drs-esg.com> I was browsing through a local used book store and found some stuff other may want. These are the listed prices, shipping additional. I have not purchased them but can and ship them off if interest. In general if you have the equipment you get priority or wanting multiple, offering PDP-8 stuff, or offering more than list. Email me not list if interested. Heathkit Hero Jr Robot Model RT-1 1984 Technical Manual $2.95 Assembly Manual $2.95 Digital Technical Journal Aug 1985 VAX 8600 $3.50 Update notice TOPS-10 operating system commands manual Feb 84 (only update not entire manual) $5.50 IBM replaced maintenance parts returnable 1952 (parts list with prices for various equipment). Somewhat worn $7.50 And the following Control Data (CDC) manuals. All are in reasonable physical shape but heavily marked up. I'll be impressed if you have one of these. 3300 Traning Manual second edition 1968 Vol I $3.50 Vol II $5.50 Disk storage equipment traning manual 1969 (853 and 854 drive) $4.50 Visual displays traning manual 1967 (210,211,212,250,280) $3.50 915 page reader a programmed text 1967 Vol I $3.50 Vol II $5.50 3300 Data processor machine language coding form $2.50 Logic circuits experiments 1969 $3.50 Active networks experiments revised 1968 $3.50 Passive networks experiments revised $3.50 David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 14 22:27:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Ultrix 2.2 was: (Re: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives...) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010414153647.03490db0@208.226.86.10> References: <074f01c0c521$74ba8f70$76261bce@L166> Message-ID: >Well the good news is that using the 'screwdriver in the drill to the hole >in the bottom' I recovered the tape and attempted to boot it on a 4000/200 >with a TK70. It started but the kernel failed to load. I'm guessing Ultrix >2.2 is too early for the KA660 :-) > >I'm going to try it with a KA640 (closer to the KA630 in lineage) and see >if it recognizes that. I've yet to find the SPD for Ultrix 2.2 to tell me >what it did support. I don't think you're going to get anything other than the KA630 to work, and the list of supported hardware is pretty slim. Unfortuanatly I can't get to the manuals, but it isn't intended to run on anything newer than the MicroVAX II I believe. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 23:49:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: Message-ID: <001b01c0c567$75aab900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I've seen attempts by others to repair keypads of the KIM-1 sort. It's doomed to frustration. They cost MUCH less than $1 US in the quantity in which they were purchased in '76, and that was >50% shipping and packaging. The KIM-1 was designed more as a novelty than as a computer, since it was really just a demo/evaluation kit for their ROM/I/O etc. devices. It was designed to see < 1-2 hr of power-on time. Clearly they didn't need a seriously serviceable keypad for that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > Well, clearly, one has to know what sort of switches are in place before > > Exactly. I can think of a few keyboards that I know to be made up of > individual switches, but all of them are over 10 years old, and hence > should be restored themselves, not stripped. > > > deciding to use a given keyboard. Being Microswitch, it's NOT genuine IBM. If > > the IBM real-McCoys are unuseable there's no point in attempting to use one of > > That was my original comment. The true IBM 'clicky' keyboards are not > suitable for this, for all they have a lovely feel (I am using one right > now). > > > them. Hall-effect switches are probably too expensive to appear in a cheapie as > > one would expect to see on a PC clone. What's called for in the KIM-1 case is > > Again, agreed, but you might come across them in some (high-end) classic > computers. > > > clearly a switch, however. There's some question as to whether the relatively > > We're agreeing on everything. Yes, no point in making life difficult. The > Kim was designed to use a switch, and that's what should be used to make > a new keypad -- especially as suitable switches are available. > > Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad > apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or > replaced, for example. > > -tony > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 14 23:50:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: <000501c0c534$6aef1ac0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <002101c0c567$893db580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Probably bad advice, resulting in a shooting. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny Cox" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > I hope you're joking, but if not, how did this occur? Electrocution? High > blood pressure due to frustration? > > - Lanny > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > > > (snip) > > BTW, there IS a documented fatality from the frustrations of serial > > interfacing. > > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Apr 14 23:59:54 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:20 2005 Subject: Ultrix 2.2 was: (Re: Ya know, I really dislike TK50 drives...) In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010414153647.03490db0@208.226.86.10> <074f01c0c521$74ba8f70$76261bce@L166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010414215900.029b4c90@208.226.86.10> Well it did realize the KA640 was a CVAX but it misidentified it as a KA650 :-) If you get the list that would be great, then I could perhaps put together an Ultrix VAX system! --Chuck At 08:27 PM 4/14/01 -0700, you wrote: > >Well the good news is that using the 'screwdriver in the drill to the hole > >in the bottom' I recovered the tape and attempted to boot it on a 4000/200 > >with a TK70. It started but the kernel failed to load. I'm guessing Ultrix > >2.2 is too early for the KA660 :-) > > > >I'm going to try it with a KA640 (closer to the KA630 in lineage) and see > >if it recognizes that. I've yet to find the SPD for Ultrix 2.2 to tell me > >what it did support. > >I don't think you're going to get anything other than the KA630 to work, >and the list of supported hardware is pretty slim. Unfortuanatly I can't >get to the manuals, but it isn't intended to run on anything newer than the >MicroVAX II I believe. > > Zane >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Apr 15 05:32:14 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100e/40 In-Reply-To: <3AD70B3C.8E1287B9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010415063044.00a55d30@mail.wincom.net> At 09:20 AM 13/04/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I just received a 3100e/40, and have installed the setup program, but >want to install a simple word program, but am having trouble doing it. >Does anyone know the steps which I have to go through to install such a >program? I am running Wordperfect 6 for Dos on mine. Forty megs is not a lot of space anymore. Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From dogbert at mindless.com Sun Apr 15 06:15:10 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <001b01c0c567$75aab900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <01b001c0c59d$68440740$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > I've seen attempts by others to repair keypads of the KIM-1 sort. It's doomed > to frustration. They cost MUCH less than $1 US in the quantity in which they > were purchased in '76, and that was >50% shipping and packaging. The KIM-1 was > designed more as a novelty than as a computer, since it was really just a > demo/evaluation kit for their ROM/I/O etc. devices. It was designed to see < > 1-2 hr of power-on time. Clearly they didn't need a seriously serviceable > keypad for that. > I think the outboard keyboard & case idea is excellent, and a fun "hour at a time" kind of project to tinker with whenever bored. :) I already took apart one broken keyboard in my boneyard -- it was a membrane type. <:-( As for up-time, this particular KIM-1 has seen many thousands of up-time hours, being the platform on which I learned to program computers (even before BASIC), and that got me hooked. So there are obvious fond memories of discovery there. Even hand assembly and calculating relative branches by hand didn't seem too awful at the time. Just being able to write a program and make it do something was far too magical to seem tedious. :) It also spent an awful lot of time playing Microchess, Wumpus, Lunar Lander, Blackjack, etc. The First Book of KIM and the programmers reference guide were tattered almost to oblivion. :) And the keyboard was a hunk of junk, you're right. I seem to remember having trouble with the "0"-"3" and "+" keys even in the late 70's. I do agree that the board was principally aimed an engineers and the sort of person who would play around just enough to decide if this was a family of chips they can use and try out a few ideas, then go on to design their own hardware, but there were some indications that MOS expected some users to expand it significantly; otherwise, why supply expansion connectors with all relevant signals and provisions to flexibly alter the on-board decoding externally, and why TTY + paper tape capabilities on top of keyboard + cassette if it was just to bang a few bits and play long enough to make a mindshare sale? It seems like a lot of engineering effort could have been spared if it was intended to be a fixed, unexpandable board. It looks to me more like MOS Technologies expected some of these boards to end up as process controllers or to be expanded, e.g. KIM-4, and not just for evaluation service. Then hobbyists discovered it and who knows what percentage of total KIMs sold ultimately went to hobbyists for home use? -- Ross > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Duell" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > Well, clearly, one has to know what sort of switches are in place before > > > > Exactly. I can think of a few keyboards that I know to be made up of > > individual switches, but all of them are over 10 years old, and hence > > should be restored themselves, not stripped. > > > > > deciding to use a given keyboard. Being Microswitch, it's NOT genuine IBM. > If > > > the IBM real-McCoys are unuseable there's no point in attempting to use one > of > > > > That was my original comment. The true IBM 'clicky' keyboards are not > > suitable for this, for all they have a lovely feel (I am using one right > > now). > > > > > them. Hall-effect switches are probably too expensive to appear in a > cheapie as > > > one would expect to see on a PC clone. What's called for in the KIM-1 case > is > > > > Again, agreed, but you might come across them in some (high-end) classic > > computers. > > > > > clearly a switch, however. There's some question as to whether the > relatively > > > > We're agreeing on everything. Yes, no point in making life difficult. The > > Kim was designed to use a switch, and that's what should be used to make > > a new keypad -- especially as suitable switches are available. > > > > Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad > > apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or > > replaced, for example. > > > > -tony > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Sun Apr 15 06:18:28 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: Message-ID: <01b801c0c59d$ddf60880$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads [snip] > Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad > apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or > replaced, for example. Some of the keys are actually caved in, and others feel like something major is missing underneath. I suspect it's a goner, given it has been literally used until it wore out. -- Ross > > -tony > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Apr 15 08:01:34 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Apr 14, 2001 08:04:22 am" Message-ID: <200104151301.f3FD1Zg02977@bg-tc-ppp103.monmouth.com> > Cool! Singer also made computers in the early 70s. I have a bare PCB cut > in half with a Singer label on it. I wonder if any complete machines > survived? > > Do you have any Samsonite computers, Will? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Anyone else out there ever see a Singer System 10... this caused some legal action which made DEC label the KL's DECsystem10 and DECsystem20's. I saw one run when I left DEC for TRW... The OS was not a pretty picture when you were used to the english-like DEC OS's. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Apr 15 08:04:57 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: RT11 In-Reply-To: <013e01c0c490$62ea4970$67749a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Apr 13, 2001 11:05:55 pm" Message-ID: <200104151304.f3FD4vh03131@bg-tc-ppp103.monmouth.com> > >> Does anyone on the list run RT-11 still other than Megan Gentry? > > > Me too, I have it and it's a really good OS. > > Allison Rarely... I do have a set of v5.1 SRC Microfiche and the fiche for Fortran and multi-user basic. Now to just get a fiche reader. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From uban at ubanproductions.com Sun Apr 15 08:17:48 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Latest Acquisition: Imlac PDS-1D Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010415081748.0088ea40@ubanproductions.com> Opps, I made a typo on the URL... Please try this one. http://www.ubanproductions.com/imlac.html --tom >Well, I said that I would put up some more pictures of one of my Imlacs >a couple of days ago, but I got delayed a bit, so here they are now: > >http://www.ubanproductions.com/imlacs.html > >--tom From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 15 09:43:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <001b01c0c567$75aab900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01b001c0c59d$68440740$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <001e01c0c5ba$66f07f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The membrane types are quite a bit cheaper, hence you'll see them most of the time. When you select a candidate for canibalizing, you look at the underside of the PCB. If there are two contacts that are soldered through the board, that's the type you want, since whatever mechanism makes the keyboard work in that case is removable as a unit. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:15 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > I've seen attempts by others to repair keypads of the KIM-1 sort. It's > doomed > > to frustration. They cost MUCH less than $1 US in the quantity in which > they > > were purchased in '76, and that was >50% shipping and packaging. The > KIM-1 was > > designed more as a novelty than as a computer, since it was really just a > > demo/evaluation kit for their ROM/I/O etc. devices. It was designed to > see < > > 1-2 hr of power-on time. Clearly they didn't need a seriously serviceable > > keypad for that. > > > > I think the outboard keyboard & case idea is excellent, and a fun "hour at a > time" > kind of project to tinker with whenever bored. :) I already took apart one > broken > keyboard in my boneyard -- it was a membrane type. <:-( > > As for up-time, this particular KIM-1 has seen many thousands of up-time > hours, > being the platform on which I learned to program computers (even before > BASIC), and that got me hooked. > So there are obvious fond memories of discovery there. > Even hand assembly and calculating relative branches by > hand didn't seem too awful at the time. Just being able to write a program > and make it do something was far too magical to seem tedious. :) > > It also spent an awful lot of time playing Microchess, Wumpus, > Lunar Lander, Blackjack, etc. The First Book of KIM and the programmers > reference guide were tattered almost to oblivion. :) And the keyboard was > a hunk of junk, you're right. I seem to remember having trouble with the > "0"-"3" and "+" keys even in the late 70's. > > I do agree that the board was principally aimed an engineers and the sort > of person who would play around just enough to decide if this was a family > of chips they can use and try out a few ideas, then go on to design their > own hardware, but there were some indications that MOS expected some > users to expand it significantly; otherwise, why supply expansion connectors > with all > relevant signals and provisions to flexibly alter the on-board decoding > externally, > and why TTY + paper tape capabilities on top of keyboard + cassette if it > was just > to bang a few bits and play long enough to make a mindshare sale? It seems > like > a lot of engineering effort could have been spared if it was intended to be > a fixed, > unexpandable board. > > It looks to me more like MOS Technologies expected some of these boards to > end > up as process controllers or to be expanded, e.g. KIM-4, and not just for > evaluation > service. Then hobbyists discovered it and who knows what percentage of > total > KIMs sold ultimately went to hobbyists for home use? > > -- Ross > > > > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Duell" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:18 PM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, clearly, one has to know what sort of switches are in place > before > > > > > > Exactly. I can think of a few keyboards that I know to be made up of > > > individual switches, but all of them are over 10 years old, and hence > > > should be restored themselves, not stripped. > > > > > > > deciding to use a given keyboard. Being Microswitch, it's NOT genuine > IBM. > > If > > > > the IBM real-McCoys are unuseable there's no point in attempting to > use one > > of > > > > > > That was my original comment. The true IBM 'clicky' keyboards are not > > > suitable for this, for all they have a lovely feel (I am using one right > > > now). > > > > > > > them. Hall-effect switches are probably too expensive to appear in a > > cheapie as > > > > one would expect to see on a PC clone. What's called for in the KIM-1 > case > > is > > > > > > Again, agreed, but you might come across them in some (high-end) classic > > > computers. > > > > > > > clearly a switch, however. There's some question as to whether the > > relatively > > > > > > We're agreeing on everything. Yes, no point in making life difficult. > The > > > Kim was designed to use a switch, and that's what should be used to make > > > a new keypad -- especially as suitable switches are available. > > > > > > Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad > > > apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or > > > replaced, for example. > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 15 09:55:35 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <01b801c0c59d$ddf60880$1322a8c0@cisco.com> Message-ID: <002701c0c5bc$208b56a0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Yes, they made quite a number of KIM-4's as well as some of the KIM-2 and KIM-3 boards, of which I have one of each now, if I didn't, in a moment of madness, toss them while having an "easter-egg" hunt in the basement. I don't remember much about the KIM-1, never having owned one myself, but I did build a prototype DRAM board (32K) for the thing for a friend at one time. I even had a 32K DRAM board with the DRAM (4027) array on it built up with a wirewrap area on the remainder of the board. That was when 4116's were still expensive but everybody was replacing their 4027's with them. It happened that the friend for whom I built up the memory circuit was the guy who ran the PCB house that made my prototypes, so he could make up whatever he felt like doing. IIRC, the memory map was divide in half, with RAM in the bottom and ROM and I/O in the top half. That allowed for some expansion. The KIM-3 and KIM-2 boards used 21L02's and were made here in the Denver area by Monolithic Systems. They clearly bore the MOS-Technology Logo, and had the on-board regulators that were required for the KIM BUS. The fact they designed this stuff and had it made up suggests they had other plans for the KIM-1 than merely a DEMO board. However, the shape of these boards suggests that their design team was somewhat lacking in grey matter. The bus connectors on the KIM-2 and KIM-3 boards were centered in their nominally 8" x 10" size, and would certainly NOT line up conveniently with the connectors on the KIM-1 for any sort of well-, or even badly,- thought-out packaging arrangement. I've never looked at a KIM-4 to see what its configuration suggests. I think all this suggests that there were oppposing forces at work at Commodore, and you know what they say about "too many cooks" ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tony Duell > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 3:18 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > [snip] > > Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad > > apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or > > replaced, for example. > > Some of the keys are actually caved in, and others feel like > something major is missing underneath. I suspect it's a > goner, given it has been literally used until it wore out. > > -- Ross > > > > > -tony > > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 15 10:02:20 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: <200104151301.f3FD1Zg02977@bg-tc-ppp103.monmouth.com> Message-ID: Singer has divisions and the Singer-Kearfott div makes electronics, avioincs and computers. They made the digital-analog convertor for the AGM-69A Short Range Attack Missile I worked on. Stewart Warner (guages) made the radar unit and AC/Delco made the actual computer. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Pechter > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 8:02 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Singer > > > > Cool! Singer also made computers in the early 70s. I have a > bare PCB cut > > in half with a Singer label on it. I wonder if any complete machines > > survived? > > > > Do you have any Samsonite computers, Will? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > > Anyone else out there ever see a Singer System 10... this caused > some legal action which made DEC label the KL's DECsystem10 and > DECsystem20's. > > I saw one run when I left DEC for TRW... The OS was not a pretty picture > when you were used to the english-like DEC OS's. > > Bill > > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 > Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 > Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: > "Magical Misery Tour" From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 15 10:42:15 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <02ab01c0c5c3$24de58e0$67749a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Ross Archer >I think the outboard keyboard & case idea is excellent, and a fun "hour at a >time"kind of project to tinker with whenever bored. :) I already took apart one >broke >keyboard in my boneyard -- it was a membrane type. <:-( The keyboard was the common type similar if not the same as most calculators of the time used. Simple XY matrix of switches and easily replaced. The biggest problem of the keypad is the materials didn't age well over time. Many still work well. Allison From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 15 12:12:54 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II Message-ID: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> I have recently found an Apple II that is a bit interesting. Its color is very dark gray, almost black, and so is the color of the matching Disk II. The labels on both the Apple II and Disk II say "Made for Belle & Howell by Apple Computer, Inc" and have the logos of both companies. Is this a special machine in any way? I don't have it currently. I found it yesterday and have not yet contacted the institiution that owns it to see if is available (though it most likely is). -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 15 12:19:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 In-Reply-To: <3AD8FDD0.9D9A9596@greenbelt.com> from "Eric Chomko" at Apr 14, 1 09:48:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1086 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010415/7a22c106/attachment.ksh From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Sun Apr 15 12:45:58 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu>; from jss@ou.edu on Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 12:12:54PM -0500 References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> On Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 12:12:54PM -0500, Jeffrey S. Sharp (jss@ou.edu) wrote: > I have recently found an Apple II that is a bit interesting. Its > color is very dark gray, almost black, and so is the color of the > matching Disk II. The labels on both the Apple II and Disk II say > "Made for Belle & Howell by Apple Computer, Inc" and have the logos > of both companies. Is this a special machine in any way? Well, not *particularly* special -- just a bit of marketing creativity on Apple's part. Bell and Howell make audiovisual equipment -- slide projectors, transparency projectors, filmstrip stuff, multiple-headset listening stations, and so forth -- and have a contract with pretty near every elementary school board in North America, I bet. So, Apple wanted to get their machines into the schools, so they arranged for Bell and Howell to brand Apple IIs; that way, the machines were on the standard Bell and Howell price list, and teachers/administrators could just add one to their order instead of going through the complexities of setting up a new supplier (and this at a time where computers in the classroom were rare, but audiovisual teaching aids were all the rage). A particularly clever bit of marketing, indeed. :-) There are certainly fewer B&H Apple IIs than normal ones, and as we all know, black computers are faster :-), but I don't think it's particularly /rare/. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 15 12:59:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: FSOT: "Smart Cable"s (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 14, 1 06:53:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010415/a56e674e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 15 13:01:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <01b801c0c59d$ddf60880$1322a8c0@cisco.com> from "Ross Archer" at Apr 15, 1 04:18:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 690 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010415/0d93504d/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 15 13:03:08 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed References: <3.0.5.32.20010415081748.0088ea40@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <000201c0c5d7$cc653840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Is anbody intimate enough with the VaxStation 2000 to provide a couple of details? Here's the deal: I snagged a VaxStation 2000 box some time back, mainly for the PSU. It turns out that it has a couple of lines, on the 9-pin MOLEX main power output connector, the purpose of which is not clear. There's one that seems to float at around -6 Volts DC, and another that floats at high-impedance, yet, when the one at -6 is pulled to 0 (gnd) through a resistor, the previously floating one suddenly has 9 volts or so. Do these have a specific purpose that might serve some need I'm likely to encounter, or are they just for the DEC folks' features? Is there any way to capitalize on them, or should I just leave them alone? All I'm after is fairly normal power output, with the added benefit of a fan and switch. The +5 and bipolar 12's seem to work fine. Spec's would be handy too, e.g. how much current can be drawn from each of the supplies and, perhaps from all of them at once? Thanx, Dick From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Apr 15 13:33:32 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Back when I was an impoverished student, I used to go to the local Radio > > > Shack every few weeks to see if they had gotten an 8080A in stock. Never > > > did get one, or build an S-100 machine like I wanted. > > > > > > > Yeah well, that pretty much sums up the RS experience, until the 6809 system > > showed up they really didn't have computers. > > In the early 1980s in the UK, Tandy (Radio Shack) sold off a lot of chips > in what they called 'Treasure Bags'. These were bags of mixed ICs, but > the contents were listed in the monthly sales flyers that just about > everyone over here got sent. > > One bag (I remember it cost something like \pounds 4.95) contained an > 8080A, 8224 clock generator, 8255, 8251, a few edge connectors, and a few > other parts that I've forgotten. All with data sheets. > > I bought at least one (and some of the other bags -- one was a _lot_ of > LS TTL). The 8255 and 8251 went into a couple of homebrew projects. I > think I still have the 8080A unused somewhere, though. I'm keeping it as > a spare for some of the stuff I have here with that processor. > > -tony > I wasn't disparaging Radio Shack, it was more an observation on the technocultural backwater I was in. The only other sources for electronic parts in town charged more than Radio Shack and had a limited inventory , as well. Names withheld to protect the guilty. jbdigriz From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 15 13:31:15 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <02ab01c0c5c3$24de58e0$67749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000001c0c5de$111e8bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Archer > > > >I think the outboard keyboard & case idea is excellent, and a fun "hour > at a > >time"kind of project to tinker with whenever bored. :) I already took > apart one > >broke >keyboard in my boneyard -- it was a membrane type. <:-( > > > The keyboard was the common type similar if not the same as most > calculators of the time used. Simple XY matrix of switches and easily > replaced. > If that were true, this entire thread would not have occurred. The problem with most of these matrix keypads in a single, solid, monolithically-molded assembly is that you can't remove a switch and replace it, hence, you have to replace the entire thing. If it's not an exact replacement, you're out of luck, because it has to FIT on the board, else the leads are too short. Moreover, it has to be in a matrix compatible with the scanning arrangement and it has to have the printed/embossed key labels that the application requires, else the entire thing is TOTALLY useless. You've overlooked the fact that X and Y have values, and if those values don't coincide with the ones on the original, the replacement won't work. The KIM-1 keypad is not on a 4x4 or 4x5 matrix as most keypads of this shape/size were prone to be. Now, if you know of a suitable replacement for the KIM-1 keypad, which wears out pretty easily, it would be very helpful to those who use the KIM-1 if you'd share that information. A generalization about what could or might be (note the subjunctive) won't be of help at all. Replacing KIM-1 keypads has been a problem since the early '80's and I've never yet seen/heard of a direct replacement. > > The biggest problem of the keypad is the materials didn't age well over > time. Many still > work well. > The only ones that still work well are the ones that haven't been opened. The plastic doesn't keep well, apparently oxidizing along with the contacts and it becomes brittle. I've never seen a KIM-1 that didn't have keypad problems, and I haven't seen one up close since the early '80's. These were not made for many years' use, but, rather, as a demo for the products MOS-Technology was promoting at the time. The keypad was not of a type likely to last more than a few months in occasional use, and if one wanted a durable keypad, the external connections were prefectly suited for the attachment of a "decent" keypad. Unfortunately the display was a mite small, and if one used an external keypad, it was highly desirable to attach an external display, which was a mite more trouble, as well, else seeing the display was a problem. Anyone old enough to have owned or used a KIM-1 when they were in vogue would certainly recognize that today. (My mom told me to quit that, else I'd go blind ... did I listen? ... I said I'd quit when I needed glasses ... well ...) > > Allison > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 15 14:23:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: FT: 8080A & TI 9918 In-Reply-To: from "James B. DiGriz" at Apr 15, 1 02:33:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 894 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010415/74941b3a/attachment.ksh From bdc at world.std.com Sun Apr 15 15:01:58 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed In-Reply-To: <000201c0c5d7$cc653840$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Is anbody intimate enough with the VaxStation 2000 to provide a couple > of details? Here's the deal: Not really intimate with them, but I have used them to run NetBSD/vax and Ultrix. > I snagged a VaxStation 2000 box some time back, mainly for the PSU. > It turns out that it has a couple of lines, on the 9-pin MOLEX main > power output connector, the purpose of which is not clear. There's > one that seems to float at around -6 Volts DC, and another that floats > at high-impedance, yet, when the one at -6 is pulled to 0 (gnd) > through a resistor, the previously floating one suddenly has 9 volts > or so. Do these have a specific purpose that might serve some need > I'm likely to encounter, or are they just for the DEC folks' features? > Is there any way to capitalize on them, or should I just leave them > alone? All I'm after is fairly normal power output, with the added > benefit of a fan and switch. The +5 and bipolar 12's seem to work > fine. Spec's would be handy too, e.g. how much current can be drawn > from each of the supplies and, perhaps from all of them at once? I think (I'm not positive) this may be related to the nature of the power supply. I've not actually used them for anything but powering the components which normally make up a VAXstation 2000. They do have some interesting qualities, the main one being that they don't work right unless they've got a load on them. I've made the mistake of trying to run one diskless--which doesn't work. As soon as you add a disk drive, then the system goes through it's power up sequence without problem. DEC did make a diskless version of the VS2000, but it had a big resistor board that plugged into the internal drive power cable. I'm sure someone here can address the actual reasons why the power supply behaves like this. I think it's a trait of older switching PSUs. But hopefully my "systems guy" observations provide some useful clues. -brian. --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- Being an open and honest guy, in the big "Occupation" box in the center of the sheet, I had written the same thing that's on my business cards. "Internet Legend". -- K. From stuart at zen.co.uk Sun Apr 15 15:09:48 2001 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stu) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: (uk) looking for atari 400/800 References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <001201c0c5e8$069c8760$7f487ad5@office.zen.co.uk> any books, bits, peripherals. Also, looking to give away some old apricot kit to anyone who wants it. Cheers. stu From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 15 17:10:40 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC Message-ID: <39.136fcd44.280b7664@aol.com> i recently had the pleasure of meeting someone who once worked on ENIAC...aside from hearing some stories about the computer he also has several tubes from it laying around which, if he can find, will soon be mine.... --Robert Cobbins From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 15 17:16:01 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <02cb01c0c5f9$b1cec2e0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >If that were true, this entire thread would not have occurred. The problem with >most of these matrix keypads in a single, solid, monolithically-molded assembly NO it's someone that hasn't an idea how or what it is. RS sells a universal keypad kit (not usually stocked in the stores) that would work fine. One from a calc would also work. If someones is doing museam restore that would be harder. Besides I obviously don't know anything about it even though I have a KIM-1 in working condition. Allison From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 15 17:20:53 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: FSOT: "Smart Cable"s (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > But I can give you a dozen devices where that sort of cable _won't_ work. Thank you, but the "Smart Cables" haven't ever worked for any of the kinds of things that I've needed, and another dozen devices added onto the stuff that I already have wouldn't be much help - I need to get rid of a few dozen cubic yards of stuff. I'm even having to [gasp!] get rid of magazines and some books! But I'm keeping almost all of my REAL breakout boxes. My favorite is a lunch box sized one that has a row of dip switches for straight through signals, jumper pads for crossing over, signal level meters, and a signal generator that lets you set speed and number of bits and send a continuous stream of four letter words! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 15 17:24:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed Message-ID: <02de01c0c5fb$cb3671e0$67749a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >I snagged a VaxStation 2000 box some time back, mainly for the PSU. It turns >out that it has a couple of lines, on the 9-pin MOLEX main power output >connector, the purpose of which is not clear. There's one that seems to float ///snippage//// I have three working plus a TK50 in an external box (same box), if that isn't enough I must have 6 or so of the PSUs that I use for "projects". The PSU wants a 10W load minimum on both the +5 and +12. It's rated 160W OUTPUT. It easily runs a P166 with options. The +12 is heafty enough to run a MAXTOR2190 with reserve figure it for not less than 4A. The remainder is on the +5, If memory serves it's good for 12A++. The minus voltages are for RS232 type use figure them for .5A. The "floating line" is powerfail and is open collector. I rarely use it. Have fun From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Apr 15 17:43:00 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC References: <39.136fcd44.280b7664@aol.com> Message-ID: <007e01c0c5fd$6d5a3500$6c731fd1@default> Great find, Hope you get them. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: ENIAC > i recently had the pleasure of meeting someone who once worked on ENIAC...aside from hearing some stories about the computer he also has several tubes from it laying around which, if he can find, will soon be mine.... > > --Robert Cobbins > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 15 17:33:13 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: FSOT: "Smart Cable"s (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 15, 1 03:20:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1658 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010415/3c0c9465/attachment.ksh From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 15 17:50:37 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC In-Reply-To: <39.136fcd44.280b7664@aol.com> References: <39.136fcd44.280b7664@aol.com> Message-ID: <987375037.3ada25bdcad2e@email.ou.edu> Quoting Demon02554@aol.com: > i recently had the pleasure of meeting someone who once worked on > ENIAC...aside from hearing some stories about the computer he also > has several tubes from it laying around which, if he can find, > will soon be mine.... I talked breifly in a hospital to a lady who had worked on the ENIAC. It was almost a religious experience. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From Demon02554 at aol.com Sun Apr 15 17:58:03 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC Message-ID: >I talked breifly in a hospital to a lady who had >worked on the >ENIAC. It was almost a religious experience. > >-- >Jeffrey S. Sharp >jss@ou.edu i agree whole heartedly...but the promise of those parts is incredible... Robert Cobbins From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 15 17:25:54 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Serial Interfacing can be dangerous (was: 50 pin SCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > I read about it in probably Infoworld at the time. When Joe Campbell > was writing "The RS232 Solution" or "C Programmers guide to Serial > Communication" (I forget which), I mentioned it to him and he tracked > it down and put it into the book as a sidebar. I don't have either > book handy today, but if somebody needs the reference tracked down, > there is a full reference to the news story in one of those two books. I recall having recently catalogued both books and so can easily find them and look for the reference. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 15 17:32:00 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Singer has divisions and the Singer-Kearfott div makes electronics, > avioincs and computers. They made the digital-analog convertor for the > AGM-69A Short Range Attack Missile I worked on. Stewart Warner > (guages) made the radar unit and AC/Delco made the actual computer. Does Singer-Kearfott still make computers for military purposes? You speak of this as if it is present tense. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ip500 at home.com Sun Apr 15 18:50:11 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC References: Message-ID: <3ADA33B3.BA74DF31@home.com> Hopefully there will be some documentation [or if not, try for an oral history] re: those tubes. ENIAC used common radio tubes [dual triodes for the most part] and it's doubtful they were marked or identified in any special way. 6SN7 octal based and 12AX7,AU7 or AT7 mini's [or the later Industrial eqv] were the most common ones. Craig Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > > >I talked breifly in a hospital to a lady who had >worked on the > >ENIAC. It was almost a religious experience. > > > >-- > >Jeffrey S. Sharp > >jss@ou.edu > > i agree whole heartedly...but the promise of those parts is incredible... > > Robert Cobbins From bill at cs.scranton.edu Sun Apr 15 19:43:03 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Singer has divisions and the Singer-Kearfott div makes electronics, avioincs > and computers. They made the digital-analog convertor for the AGM-69A Short > Range Attack Missile I worked on. Stewart Warner (guages) made the radar > unit and AC/Delco made the actual computer. > Not to mention the Singer/Link Simulations Division which was located just south of Binghamton, NY on I81. Made flight simulators for such things as the F4 fighter. A major loss when it was deliberately run into the ground and then dumped on an unwitting Canadian company. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Apr 15 20:23:45 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) References: Message-ID: <3ADA49A1.53E9EB6B@greenbelt.com> Chandra Bajpai wrote: > I started collecting systems only about 2 1/2 years ago...my objectives were > to get all the computers I could't afford as a kid....I was one of the early > youngsters growing up starting with the 1977 TRS-80 model I...it was well > out of my (and family's) price range...not to be deterred, I learned > programming by hanging around Radio Shack while my Mom shopped...after a > couple of years when my father figured out I wasn't outgrowing my computer > "phase" he bought me one in 1981, a TRS-80 Model III 48K 2DD for $2500 with > an insurance settlement. > Wow, nice dad! I had the choice between a used car and a computer in college. I opted for the computer and figured I'd ride the bus! (Got a car later.) > > (2x) Commodore PET 8K 2001 (1 works; other needs to be debugged) > I used to sell these. The memory was notorius for "sticking". By switching around the RAM chips, it usually fixed it. > (2x) Apple Lisa 2/10 (working 10mb widget hard drives!) > (3x) TRS-80 Model I (EI, floppies etc.) > (12x!) Commodore PET 8032/4032 etc. with 8250 fdd (long story) > TRS-80 Model III (my first machine) I got one of these two. Damn thing takes up a lot of room! > > Leading Edge Model D (my first employer) > Akkord Jonathan (probably the only real reverse engineered Mac clone out > there ~1991) > Northstar Advantage > IBM ThinkPad with Go! Operating System > NEC UltraLite Autograph (prototype pen machines) > Heathkit H89 > Nextstation > Osborne One > Apple Mac SE > Apple II+ > Atari 800 > (2x) Commodore 64 > SpectraVideo SV328 (in bad shape) > Casio Zoomer > HP 200LX (my PCMCIA software runs on this) > I have seceral of the ones you have above as well. Nice collection! > > What I still need to get: > - Kim-1 or similar microprocessor trainer > - S100 Computer > - Ohio Scientific (any) > - Processor Technology SOL Used to sell SOLs too. It's S-100, so by getting one you could take care of your "S-100" machine and your "SOL", of course. Eric From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 15 20:31:58 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: >Not to mention the Singer/Link Simulations Division which was located >just south of Binghamton, NY on I81. Made flight simulators for such >things as the F4 fighter. A major loss when it was deliberately run >into the ground and then dumped on an unwitting Canadian company. Not to mention the fact that Link provided flight simulators long before the F-4, at least back to the early 1940's. Jeff From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 15 20:36:31 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Been in quite a few Link trainers myself through 20 in the AF but it didn't dawn on me that Link was part of Singer. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:43 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Singer > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Singer has divisions and the Singer-Kearfott div makes > electronics, avioincs > > and computers. They made the digital-analog convertor for the > AGM-69A Short > > Range Attack Missile I worked on. Stewart Warner (guages) made the radar > > unit and AC/Delco made the actual computer. > > > > Not to mention the Singer/Link Simulations Division which was located > just south of Binghamton, NY on I81. Made flight simulators for such > things as the F4 fighter. A major loss when it was deliberately run > into the ground and then dumped on an unwitting Canadian company. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 15 20:36:33 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe they make all sorts, I know they make avionics products still but not sure if they are still part of the missile components. I was speaking past tense in the sense of he AGM-69A, which for the most part is retired other than some boosters they stored for testing. We sent our whle fleet of 125 boosters in Wichita to an Oklahoma ammo depot in 95 for destruction, the year I retired. The last thing I did as shop chief was to sign the bill of lading for the last load. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:32 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Singer > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Singer has divisions and the Singer-Kearfott div makes electronics, > > avioincs and computers. They made the digital-analog convertor for the > > AGM-69A Short Range Attack Missile I worked on. Stewart Warner > > (guages) made the radar unit and AC/Delco made the actual computer. > > Does Singer-Kearfott still make computers for military purposes? You > speak of this as if it is present tense. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 15 20:40:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just did a quick search and it seems that Kearfott has been a division of Astronotics Corp of America since '88...news to me. Found it at their info page at http://www.kearfott.com/corpinf.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:32 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Singer > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > Singer has divisions and the Singer-Kearfott div makes electronics, > > avioincs and computers. They made the digital-analog convertor for the > > AGM-69A Short Range Attack Missile I worked on. Stewart Warner > > (guages) made the radar unit and AC/Delco made the actual computer. > > Does Singer-Kearfott still make computers for military purposes? You > speak of this as if it is present tense. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Apr 15 20:39:46 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: ENIAC In-Reply-To: <3ADA33B3.BA74DF31@home.com> Message-ID: Re: ENIAC Tubes (Valves). While I think there were a goodly number of 6SN7s used in the machine, the miniature devices you cite [12A -X7 -U7 -AT7] were still finding their way out of WWII secrecy into the mainstream market. As far as I cans research, none were used in the machine, which was *designed* in the early 40s, and of course built from those designs over the space of about two or three years. I no longer have access to my library on the subject, or I would be a little less vague. FWIW, the ENIAC rack in the Computer Musem at Moffet is populated mainly with 6SK7s, a metal-bodied pentode with a grid cap. I don't remember at this remove of time what the function of that particular rack was in the overall computer. I took several shots of it, and also shamelessly and wantonly ingnored the stern and forboding "Do Not Touch" sign, reached over and clicked one of it's multi-position selector switches. Yes, I did. "What're ya in for, buddy?" "Clicked a switch on the ENIAC. And you...?" "Tore th' tag offen my new mattress." "Yeah. Tough break. Well, see yas in the Exercise Yard..." Cheerz John From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Apr 15 20:51:25 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <3ADA501D.C1640A05@greenbelt.com> Rich Lafferty wrote: > [...] > > There are certainly fewer B&H Apple IIs than normal ones, and as we > all know, black computers are faster :-), but I don't think it's > particularly /rare/. > Not particularly rare, but of interest. I sold one on ebay a few months back for $40, that simply powered on (didn't know if it actually worked) and had two keys missing! But even if they sold 100 to 1 compared to their regular Apple II conterparts, they wouldn't be rare. BTW, the guy I sold it to was into restoring old Apple computers. Eric > > -Rich > > -- > ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 > ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Apr 15 20:56:47 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: (uk) looking for atari 400/800 References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> <001201c0c5e8$069c8760$7f487ad5@office.zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <3ADA515F.609A07CF@greenbelt.com> I have a kid's BASIC book for the Atari 400/800 computers. It's more a beginner's BASIC book then it is an Atari book per se. But it does say "Atari" on it. Eric Stu wrote: > any books, bits, peripherals. > Also, looking to give away some old apricot kit to anyone who wants it. > Cheers. > stu From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 15 21:14:29 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <02cb01c0c5f9$b1cec2e0$67749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001c01c0c61a$f812b9c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, in that case, since the user manual is posted at the URL included in the original post, and you'll see it's not the "usual" scanning matrix being a 7x3 or some other obtuse pattern, and not easily physically replaced with a run-of-the mill matrix keypad. Since you have a KIM-1, you know what the size is, and you know what the Radio Shack product is. If the RS product would fit in place of the original perhaps you could indicate that. If your keypad is still working, it's clear you haven't used it much. Just let us know ... don't equivocate. Putting a Radio Shack product on a KIM-1 kind-of makes my skin crawl, but if it will fit closely as a replacement for the original, and if that's what's wanted, why not? The designers did provide access to the scanning inputs, however, so an external and much more comfortable and durable keypad could be put in place with little hassle. If the desired solution is to use a serious keypad the externally applied replacement can be of whatever size is desired. It occurred to me over the Easter dinner at Mom's that one could use the top segment of the capacitive switches by situating them over a perfboard with wire leads soldered to it. The somewhat conductive pad on the lower surface of the key will close the circuit just fine if a bit of aluminum foil is rubber-cemented to its conductive surface. If it seems I don't know what sort of switches are in a PC keyboard, that's because I don't, BTW. The only PC-targeted keyboard I've disassembled has been that MicroSwitch model. That should, however, make the surplus PC-keyboard's switches useable. They're mechanically and ergonomically decent enough. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > From: Richard Erlacher > >If that were true, this entire thread would not have occurred. The > problem with > >most of these matrix keypads in a single, solid, monolithically-molded > assembly > > > NO it's someone that hasn't an idea how or what it is. RS sells a > universal > keypad kit (not usually stocked in the stores) that would work fine. One > from a calc would also work. If someones is doing museam restore that > would be harder. > > Besides I obviously don't know anything about it even though I have a > KIM-1 > in working condition. > > Allison > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 15 21:23:40 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: (uk) looking for atari 400/800 In-Reply-To: "Stu" "(uk) looking for atari 400/800" (Apr 15, 21:09) References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> <001201c0c5e8$069c8760$7f487ad5@office.zen.co.uk> Message-ID: <10104160323.ZM805@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Stu. On Apr 15, 21:09, Stu wrote: > any books, bits, peripherals. > Also, looking to give away some old apricot kit to anyone who wants it. > Cheers. What sort of Apricot kit? If it's something like a Xen Xi, I'd be interested. Wasn't there something else you and I were going to trade a while ago? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 15 22:03:26 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed References: Message-ID: <000d01c0c621$ceb59140$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Back in the early '80's it wasn't uncommon for switchers to malfunction, or, if designed somewhat better, to fail to function at all, if no load was present. This is consistent with DEC's practice of putting out 10-year old technology in its "current" products. Their rotating memory products were always at least one, and often three, generations behind the "current" generation in other makers' products. That ensured maximal profits for DEC shareholders and maximal bonuses for their execs, though it also ensured last-generation performance or less for their users. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 2:01 PM Subject: Re: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Is anbody intimate enough with the VaxStation 2000 to provide a couple > > of details? Here's the deal: > > Not really intimate with them, but I have used them to run NetBSD/vax and > Ultrix. > > > I snagged a VaxStation 2000 box some time back, mainly for the PSU. > > It turns out that it has a couple of lines, on the 9-pin MOLEX main > > power output connector, the purpose of which is not clear. There's > > one that seems to float at around -6 Volts DC, and another that floats > > at high-impedance, yet, when the one at -6 is pulled to 0 (gnd) > > through a resistor, the previously floating one suddenly has 9 volts > > or so. Do these have a specific purpose that might serve some need > > I'm likely to encounter, or are they just for the DEC folks' features? > > Is there any way to capitalize on them, or should I just leave them > > alone? All I'm after is fairly normal power output, with the added > > benefit of a fan and switch. The +5 and bipolar 12's seem to work > > fine. Spec's would be handy too, e.g. how much current can be drawn > > from each of the supplies and, perhaps from all of them at once? > > I think (I'm not positive) this may be related to the nature of the power > supply. I've not actually used them for anything but powering the > components which normally make up a VAXstation 2000. They do have some > interesting qualities, the main one being that they don't work right > unless they've got a load on them. > > I've made the mistake of trying to run one diskless--which doesn't work. > As soon as you add a disk drive, then the system goes through it's power > up sequence without problem. DEC did make a diskless version of the > VS2000, but it had a big resistor board that plugged into the internal > drive power cable. > > I'm sure someone here can address the actual reasons why the power supply > behaves like this. I think it's a trait of older switching PSUs. But > hopefully my "systems guy" observations provide some useful clues. > > -brian. > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- > Being an open and honest guy, in the big "Occupation" box in the center > of the sheet, I had written the same thing that's on my business cards. > "Internet Legend". -- K. > > From aclark at enviroweb.org Sun Apr 15 22:02:19 2001 From: aclark at enviroweb.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:21 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: <3ADA501D.C1640A05@greenbelt.com> References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010415225550.02bcd850@freenet.enviroweb.org> If in excellent condition, these units can fetch $100+ on Ebay. I've been collecting Apple ][ & /// computers for over three years now, and I have yet to see one "in the wild" or see a decent one sold online for a reasonable price. They are very sought after machines in the vintage Apple market. While their "absolute scarcity" may not be that high (in the technical meaning of the term), I can personally attest to their "relative scarcity." If you have a nice one to sell, I have some nice cash. Arthur Clark At 09:51 PM 4/15/01 -0400, you wrote: >Rich Lafferty wrote: > > > [...] > > > > There are certainly fewer B&H Apple IIs than normal ones, and as we > > all know, black computers are faster :-), but I don't think it's > > particularly /rare/. > > > >Not particularly rare, but of interest. I sold one on ebay a few months >back for >$40, >that simply powered on (didn't know if it actually worked) and had two keys >missing! > >But even if they sold 100 to 1 compared to their regular Apple II conterparts, >they wouldn't >be rare. > >BTW, the guy I sold it to was into restoring old Apple computers. > >Eric > > > > > -Rich > > > > -- > > ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 > > ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Sun Apr 15 23:36:59 2001 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: NeXT Cube Computer Back Cover Message-ID: I have a NeXT Computer cube. On the back of the Cube it has a NeXT logo and under the logo is in bold "Computer". I was told that some cubes have instead of "Computer" either "Cube" or "Turbo". Is this true? Did the text on the back of the NeXT cube change over time? Can anybody point out any other differences on the back cover of the NeXT cube. Reuben From red at bears.org Sun Apr 15 23:47:01 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: NeXT Cube Computer Back Cover In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Reuben Reyes wrote: > I have a NeXT Computer cube. On the back of the Cube > it has a NeXT logo and under the logo is in bold "Computer". > I was told that some cubes have instead of "Computer" either > "Cube" or "Turbo". Is this true? Did the text on the back > of the NeXT cube change over time? Can anybody point out any > other differences on the back cover of the NeXT cube. The Cubes that shipped with the original 68030 logic boards say "Computer" on the back. Later units said other things. ok r. From claudew at videotron.ca Sun Apr 15 23:51:12 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: CP/M for AES 7100/Lanier Dedicated Word Processor ??? Message-ID: <01d201c0c630$dc866920$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi I picked up one of these AES/Lanier 7100 a few weeks ago. It's in near perfect shape and boots to what looks like a word processor. The WP software thats in there right now is on 5 1/4 hard sector disks... I have heard rumors that a version of CP/M was available for this machine. Anyone ever heard or seen this or would by any chance have a copy? Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/c72c0f39/attachment.html From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Apr 16 00:00:10 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: NeXT Cube Computer Back Cover In-Reply-To: ; from reyes@orion.ae.utexas.edu on Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 10:36:59PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20010416010010.B5805@alcor.concordia.ca> On Sun, Apr 15, 2001 at 10:36:59PM -0600, Reuben Reyes (reyes@orion.ae.utexas.edu) wrote: > I have a NeXT Computer cube. On the back of the Cube > it has a NeXT logo and under the logo is in bold "Computer". > I was told that some cubes have instead of "Computer" either > "Cube" or "Turbo". Is this true? Did the text on the back > of the NeXT cube change over time? Can anybody point out any > other differences on the back cover of the NeXT cube. The text on the back panel changed when the insides changed. The NeXT Computer was the first one, before Stations existed, and read "Computer" (and was a 68030, IIRC); the Cube was differentiated from the Station (and was a 68040), and the Turbo was faster (a 33MHz instead of 25MHz 68040). They're different models which all shared the same case design. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 16 00:08:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> <5.0.2.1.0.20010415225550.02bcd850@freenet.enviroweb.org> Message-ID: <002301c0c633$3dbcf7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> The "gray" rather than black color suggests that it was left outdoors for at least a season, or in the window for a year or two. They were originally black. I doubt that will affect things much, though. It's the innards that matter. What all's inside this critter? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Clark" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Belle & Howell Apple II > If in excellent condition, these units can fetch $100+ on Ebay. I've been > collecting Apple ][ & /// computers for over three years now, and I have > yet to see one "in the wild" or see a decent one sold online for a > reasonable price. They are very sought after machines in the vintage Apple > market. While their "absolute scarcity" may not be that high (in the > technical meaning of the term), I can personally attest to their "relative > scarcity." > > If you have a nice one to sell, I have some nice cash. > > Arthur Clark > > > At 09:51 PM 4/15/01 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Rich Lafferty wrote: > > > > > [...] > > > > > > There are certainly fewer B&H Apple IIs than normal ones, and as we > > > all know, black computers are faster :-), but I don't think it's > > > particularly /rare/. > > > > > > >Not particularly rare, but of interest. I sold one on ebay a few months > >back for > >$40, > >that simply powered on (didn't know if it actually worked) and had two keys > >missing! > > > >But even if they sold 100 to 1 compared to their regular Apple II conterparts, > >they wouldn't > >be rare. > > > >BTW, the guy I sold it to was into restoring old Apple computers. > > > >Eric > > > > > > > > -Rich > > > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > > > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > > > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 > > > ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- > > From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Mon Apr 16 00:21:46 2001 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: NeXT Cube Computer Back Cover In-Reply-To: <20010416010010.B5805@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. What would be nice is a list of different back covers and the Text that goes with each cover. Does any body on the list have a Cube with someting other than the NeXT logo and "Computer" on the back cover. To start the list 1. NeXT logo and under the logo "Computer" 68030 1989? Reuben From jss at ou.edu Mon Apr 16 00:35:32 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Bell & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: <002301c0c633$3dbcf7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> <20010415134558.A19170@alcor.concordia.ca> <5.0.2.1.0.20010415225550.02bcd850@freenet.enviroweb.org> <002301c0c633$3dbcf7c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <987399332.3ada84a4840bf@email.ou.edu> Quoting Richard Erlacher : > The "gray" rather than black color suggests that it was left > outdoors for at least a season, or in the window for a year or two. It's probably sunlight. It sat on the floor in a remote corner of a high school science lab for possibly as much as 10 years. It was close to a large bank of windows and got lots of sunlight. The grey is very *very* dark, and I could have mistaken it for black easily. > What all's inside this critter? Power supply, keyboard, motherboard, Disk II card, and a printer card. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 16 00:51:20 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: FSOT: "Smart Cable"s (was: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >But I'm keeping almost all of my REAL breakout boxes. My favorite is a One of the swapmeets I go to had a guy last time with some of the nice small units that have all 25 pins and a set of jumpers so that you can wire the box any way you want to. Some how I forgot to buy a couple, and I have been kicking myself ever since. I just hope they show up next time and I won't hesitate. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 16 00:32:17 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: <987354774.3ad9d696b1304@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: >I have recently found an Apple II that is a bit interesting. Its Rare enough to be valuable, common enough to show on ebay regularly. No idea exactly what one must be worth these days, the standard contents and condition certainly apply. $100 to maybe $250 for a nice fairly complete system doesn't sound too far fetched, but neither does $25. From claudew at videotron.ca Mon Apr 16 01:24:43 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: CP/M for AES 7100/Lanier Dedicated Word Processor ??? Message-ID: <020b01c0c63d$ed2fa040$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi I picked up one of these AES/Lanier 7100 a few weeks ago. It's in near perfect shape and boots to what looks like a word processor. The WP software thats in there right now is on 5 1/4 hard sector disks... I have heard rumors that a version of CP/M was available for this machine. Anyone ever heard or seen this or would by any chance have a copy? Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Apr 16 02:43:01 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: from Bill Gunshannon at "Apr 15, 2001 08:43:03 pm" Message-ID: <200104160743.f3G7h1C05208@bg-tc-ppp749.monmouth.com> > Not to mention the Singer/Link Simulations Division which was located > just south of Binghamton, NY on I81. Made flight simulators for such > things as the F4 fighter. A major loss when it was deliberately run > into the ground and then dumped on an unwitting Canadian company. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Most of 'em used to use Interdata (Perkin-Elmer) (Concurrent) computers in the simulators including the 3230, 3250 and 3260. These were also used in the space shuttle simulator and simulators built by others. I had the pleasure of doing training for these folks at Concurrent at the beginning of my post-DEC career. They knew those machines inside and out and could wring every last bit of performance out of 'em. Boeing used Vax systems in their simulators. The Interdata/Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent boxes were very IBM 360 like and their software tools were way behind DEC stuff, but their price performance beat DEC on the 32 bit end... for the hardware. Boy, were their tools primitive compared with DEC. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From dogbert at mindless.com Mon Apr 16 03:11:27 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <001b01c0c567$75aab900$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <01b001c0c59d$68440740$1322a8c0@cisco.com> <001e01c0c5ba$66f07f00$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <041d01c0c64c$e8325240$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:43 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > The membrane types are quite a bit cheaper, hence you'll see them most of the > time. When you select a candidate for canibalizing, you look at the underside > of the PCB. If there are two contacts that are soldered through the board, > that's the type you want, since whatever mechanism makes the keyboard work in > that case is removable as a unit. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ross Archer" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 5:15 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > Or, I may just go this route with a keypad kit, complete with user labels. This is what I've been looking for. At least they claim to be good to up to 3 million cycles. Pity the original keypad wasn't nearly that good. The Radio Shack lead didn't turn up anything on their website. If they do have something like this, I'd check that out too. -- Ross -- Ross http://www.grayhill.com/grayhill.nsf/9f8c4a13a816a6e58625681f0065ecd1/a10513 e0e909811086256846005a8408/$FILE/C-39-43.pdf > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard Erlacher > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:49 PM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > I've seen attempts by others to repair keypads of the KIM-1 sort. It's > > doomed > > > to frustration. They cost MUCH less than $1 US in the quantity in which > > they > > > were purchased in '76, and that was >50% shipping and packaging. The > > KIM-1 was > > > designed more as a novelty than as a computer, since it was really just a > > > demo/evaluation kit for their ROM/I/O etc. devices. It was designed to > > see < > > > 1-2 hr of power-on time. Clearly they didn't need a seriously serviceable > > > keypad for that. > > > > > > > I think the outboard keyboard & case idea is excellent, and a fun "hour at a > > time" > > kind of project to tinker with whenever bored. :) I already took apart one > > broken > > keyboard in my boneyard -- it was a membrane type. <:-( > > > > As for up-time, this particular KIM-1 has seen many thousands of up-time > > hours, > > being the platform on which I learned to program computers (even before > > BASIC), and that got me hooked. > > So there are obvious fond memories of discovery there. > > Even hand assembly and calculating relative branches by > > hand didn't seem too awful at the time. Just being able to write a program > > and make it do something was far too magical to seem tedious. :) > > > > It also spent an awful lot of time playing Microchess, Wumpus, > > Lunar Lander, Blackjack, etc. The First Book of KIM and the programmers > > reference guide were tattered almost to oblivion. :) And the keyboard was > > a hunk of junk, you're right. I seem to remember having trouble with the > > "0"-"3" and "+" keys even in the late 70's. > > > > I do agree that the board was principally aimed an engineers and the sort > > of person who would play around just enough to decide if this was a family > > of chips they can use and try out a few ideas, then go on to design their > > own hardware, but there were some indications that MOS expected some > > users to expand it significantly; otherwise, why supply expansion connectors > > with all > > relevant signals and provisions to flexibly alter the on-board decoding > > externally, > > and why TTY + paper tape capabilities on top of keyboard + cassette if it > > was just > > to bang a few bits and play long enough to make a mindshare sale? It seems > > like > > a lot of engineering effort could have been spared if it was intended to be > > a fixed, > > unexpandable board. > > > > It looks to me more like MOS Technologies expected some of these boards to > > end > > up as process controllers or to be expanded, e.g. KIM-4, and not just for > > evaluation > > service. Then hobbyists discovered it and who knows what percentage of > > total > > KIMs sold ultimately went to hobbyists for home use? > > > > -- Ross > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dick > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Tony Duell" > > > To: > > > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:18 PM > > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, clearly, one has to know what sort of switches are in place > > before > > > > > > > > Exactly. I can think of a few keyboards that I know to be made up of > > > > individual switches, but all of them are over 10 years old, and hence > > > > should be restored themselves, not stripped. > > > > > > > > > deciding to use a given keyboard. Being Microswitch, it's NOT genuine > > IBM. > > > If > > > > > the IBM real-McCoys are unuseable there's no point in attempting to > > use one > > > of > > > > > > > > That was my original comment. The true IBM 'clicky' keyboards are not > > > > suitable for this, for all they have a lovely feel (I am using one right > > > > now). > > > > > > > > > them. Hall-effect switches are probably too expensive to appear in a > > > cheapie as > > > > > one would expect to see on a PC clone. What's called for in the KIM-1 > > case > > > is > > > > > > > > Again, agreed, but you might come across them in some (high-end) classic > > > > computers. > > > > > > > > > clearly a switch, however. There's some question as to whether the > > > relatively > > > > > > > > We're agreeing on everything. Yes, no point in making life difficult. > > The > > > > Kim was designed to use a switch, and that's what should be used to make > > > > a new keypad -- especially as suitable switches are available. > > > > > > > > Incidentally, has the chap with the Kim tried taking the old keypad > > > > apart. Somethimes they can be mended -- broken contacts resoldered or > > > > replaced, for example. > > > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 16 07:54:34 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: CP/M for AES 7100/Lanier Dedicated Word Processor ??? In-Reply-To: <01d201c0c630$dc866920$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010416075434.3baf24a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> I don't know what's on them but I have a PILE of the hard sectored Lanier disks. I was wondering if they were usable in any other machines. Joe At 12:51 AM 4/16/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi > >I picked up one of these AES/Lanier 7100 a few weeks ago. > >It's in near perfect shape and boots to what looks like a word processor. > >The WP software thats in there right now is on 5 1/4 hard sector disks... > >I have heard rumors that a version of CP/M was available for this machine. > >Anyone ever heard or seen this or would by any chance have a copy? > >Claude >Canuk Computer Collector >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\CPMforAE.htm" > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 16 07:36:49 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed Message-ID: <381681478.987424609358.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> To start with the switcher in question is 1987 design maybe earlier. The MV2000 was available in 87 or 88 if memory serves. And even if I'm wrong it's very definatly pre1990. Dec often used standardized designs for years despite technology. Regarding you comment on rotating technology.. your wrong. The biggest problem is that often the older technologies were kept available too long or in service too long. Add to that usually at least 50% of the rotating memory was not even DEC to start with. Look at the DEC designed products. Allison ------Original Message------ From: "Richard Erlacher" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 16, 2001 3:03:26 AM GMT Subject: Re: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed Back in the early '80's it wasn't uncommon for switchers to malfunction, or, if designed somewhat better, to fail to function at all, if no load was present. This is consistent with DEC's practice of putting out 10-year old technology in its "current" products. Their rotating memory products were always at least one, and often three, generations behind the "current" generation in other makers' products. That ensured maximal profits for DEC shareholders and maximal bonuses for their execs, though it also ensured last-generation performance or less for their users. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Chase" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 2:01 PM Subject: Re: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Is anbody intimate enough with the VaxStation 2000 to provide a couple > > of details? Here's the deal: > > Not really intimate with them, but I have used them to run NetBSD/vax and > Ultrix. > > > I snagged a VaxStation 2000 box some time back, mainly for the PSU. > > It turns out that it has a couple of lines, on the 9-pin MOLEX main > > power output connector, the purpose of which is not clear. There's > > one that seems to float at around -6 Volts DC, and another that floats > > at high-impedance, yet, when the one at -6 is pulled to 0 (gnd) > > through a resistor, the previously floating one suddenly has 9 volts > > or so. Do these have a specific purpose that might serve some need > > I'm likely to encounter, or are they just for the DEC folks' features? > > Is there any way to capitalize on them, or should I just leave them > > alone? All I'm after is fairly normal power output, with the added > > benefit of a fan and switch. The +5 and bipolar 12's seem to work > > fine. Spec's would be handy too, e.g. how much current can be drawn > > from each of the supplies and, perhaps from all of them at once? > > I think (I'm not positive) this may be related to the nature of the power > supply. I've not actually used them for anything but powering the > components which normally make up a VAXstation 2000. They do have some > interesting qualities, the main one being that they don't work right > unless they've got a load on them. > > I've made the mistake of trying to run one diskless--which doesn't work. > As soon as you add a disk drive, then the system goes through it's power > up sequence without problem. DEC did make a diskless version of the > VS2000, but it had a big resistor board that plugged into the internal > drive power cable. > > I'm sure someone here can address the actual reasons why the power supply > behaves like this. I think it's a trait of older switching PSUs. But > hopefully my "systems guy" observations provide some useful clues. > > -brian. > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- > Being an open and honest guy, in the big "Occupation" box in the center > of the sheet, I had written the same thing that's on my business cards. > "Internet Legend". -- K. > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 16 07:41:29 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <379758359.987424889890.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> Foo, mine was used, is used and works. It was dirty enough to require a trip through the dishwasher though. It wasn't to hard to open and wipe the contacts afterwards. The RS pad (special catalog item likely not their manufacuture) would work as would many others. Maybe I'm just more resorceful that others. Either that or rather that grouse about it I just do it. Allison ------Original Message------ From: "Richard Erlacher" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 16, 2001 2:14:29 AM GMT Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads Well, in that case, since the user manual is posted at the URL included in the original post, and you'll see it's not the "usual" scanning matrix being a 7x3 or some other obtuse pattern, and not easily physically replaced with a run-of-the mill matrix keypad. Since you have a KIM-1, you know what the size is, and you know what the Radio Shack product is. If the RS product would fit in place of the original perhaps you could indicate that. If your keypad is still working, it's clear you haven't used it much. Just let us know ... don't equivocate. Putting a Radio Shack product on a KIM-1 kind-of makes my skin crawl, but if it will fit closely as a replacement for the original, and if that's what's wanted, why not? The designers did provide access to the scanning inputs, however, so an external and much more comfortable and durable keypad could be put in place with little hassle. If the desired solution is to use a serious keypad the externally applied replacement can be of whatever size is desired. It occurred to me over the Easter dinner at Mom's that one could use the top segment of the capacitive switches by situating them over a perfboard with wire leads soldered to it. The somewhat conductive pad on the lower surface of the key will close the circuit just fine if a bit of aluminum foil is rubber-cemented to its conductive surface. If it seems I don't know what sort of switches are in a PC keyboard, that's because I don't, BTW. The only PC-targeted keyboard I've disassembled has been that MicroSwitch model. That should, however, make the surplus PC-keyboard's switches useable. They're mechanically and ergonomically decent enough. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > From: Richard Erlacher > >If that were true, this entire thread would not have occurred. The > problem with > >most of these matrix keypads in a single, solid, monolithically-molded > assembly > > > NO it's someone that hasn't an idea how or what it is. RS sells a > universal > keypad kit (not usually stocked in the stores) that would work fine. One > from a calc would also work. If someones is doing museam restore that > would be harder. > > Besides I obviously don't know anything about it even though I have a > KIM-1 > in working condition. > > Allison > > > > > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Mon Apr 16 07:52:24 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) and wants Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879815@MAIL10> Hello, all: Just to throw my collection list into the ring. I'm just listing machines only. I have accessories and software to go with them. Apple: II+, III (with ProFile hard drive), FatMac (with floppy-based hard drives), SE/30, IIci, IIgs, Mac Portable Commie: 4032, 8250, 2031lp, 1541, 1515, 1525, VIC20, C64, KIM-1 (3!) Digital: Complete 11/34a system with lots of spare boards (2 RK drives and one RX02), MicroVAX-I Tandy: Model I (4k and 16k), EIs, complete Model 100 with DVI IBM: Original PC with expansion chassis (and 20mb hard drive), Datamaster (and spares) NorthStar: Horizon and lots of boards. Never able to get it to work. Other: AIM65 Rich From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Apr 16 08:21:39 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: RT11 References: <200104151304.f3FD4vh03131@bg-tc-ppp103.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3ADAF1E3.279CFD41@idirect.com> >Bill Pechter wrote: > Rarely... I do have a set of v5.1 SRC Microfiche and the fiche for > Fortran and multi-user basic. Now to just get a fiche reader. Jerome Fine replies: Please do not toss them. In the long run, I hope to put together a collection of DEC distributions AFTER they become available to hobby users. This would be in addition to the superb collection of DECUS RT-11 software that Tim Shoppa produced. I am sure that Tim also has many of the DEC distributions, but he now seems to have withdrawn from the RT-11 (indeed from all PDP-11) discussions due to other much more reasonable commitments (like earning a living). Maybe the fiche could even be scanned and converted to files. I think I also have the files for Multi-User Basic as well as the manuals. I have not used it for a long time! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 16 08:33:48 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010414091116.01d9ec60@pc> Message-ID: <20010416133348.88212.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Foust wrote: > At 08:06 PM 4/13/01 -0400, somebody else wrote: > > That's how the DigiView works on the Amiga, though instead of the > > supplied color wheel and a video camera to capture the images I use a good > > quality VCR or 8mm camcorder, good quality cables, and a color splitter. Nice if you've got a color splitter, but doesn't a B&W camera produce a crisper image than a color camera? That only matters for print digitizing, of course. You would have been able to digitize video stills, which was a big deal back then. > Once being a Cool Friend of NewTek, I have in my collection > an *un-potted* DigiView from the production line. All others > were chip-sanded and epoxy-potted. I've also been in the > garage where it was invented. That's a neat artifact. So... tell us... what chips _did_ they use? I have a fun toy that's good for the _other_ way - a Polaroid video image copy unit - it has a RAM capture buffer (just hit "freeze"), a B&W video tube (no shadow mask, so nice, sharp output image) a color wheel, just like a DigiView, and a quick disconnect camera - one Polaroid (uses expensive medical imaging film), one 35mm (loves ASA 100 slide film). It takes >5 seconds to run the color wheel and snap all four pictures. I've used it mostly to make my own slides on the Amiga for lectures. Got most of it at the Dayton Hamfest three or four years ago. It had the 35mm camera and no control panel. I picked another one up, with the Polaroid camera, from a A/V surplus dealer, just to get the control panel. Now if only I could find a source of the Polaroid film below $20/pack. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Mon Apr 16 09:15:14 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Cyber 910 In-Reply-To: <3AD8C6AD.178AF909@heathers.stdio.com> from Brian Roth at "Apr 14, 2001 05:52:45 pm" Message-ID: <20010416141521Z433127-2813+337@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Sorry for being a bit slow responding, I shut my SGI down earlier in the week when we had a planned power outage and just brought it back up tonight. > OK, out of the two Cyber 910's I picked up the other day, I have one > good machine > that is now booting up to Iris. The problem is getting past the root > password. Is > ther any way of bypassing it or a hack to gain root access from the > console monitor? This is a bit of a problem. My usual solution to this problem is to boot a mini-root and edit the password file. You will probably need to have an OS distribution in order to do this. What you can do depends upon how your machine has been configured. Start by getting into the PROM monitor, when you system boots you will get a message that asks you to press ESC for system maintenance. Press ESC, and then select option 5. This will get you into the monitor. At the monitor prompt type ls and tell me what you get. If you are lucky there might be a mini-root there. There usually isn't, since its a security hole, but some system admins back then were lazy and put a mini-root where it could easily be booted from the PROM (this is more likely on a tape based system). > > It does have a 150 Mb Archive tape drive but I have no system software > for it. > I don't have any tapes handy that might have an OS on it, I probably won't make a trip back to Edmonton to check until August. Its much easier to do the install from CD. If you have a SCSI CD-ROM drive you are in business (the ones used by SUN are fairly common and easy to find). You can search eBay for IRIX 5.3 CDs, I've seen them there numerous times. Some of the other IRIX CDs might have a mini-root on them, depends upon how they are installed. I hope this helps a bit. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 16 09:20:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <379758359.987424889890.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> Message-ID: <001901c0c680$5af827e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well ... anything with switches would "work" depending, of course, what you mean by "work" but it's the physical dimensions that matter, since it has to fit where the original goes. This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've seen it, perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads wouldn't know what a keypad kit was if you asked them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp me" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > Foo, mine was used, is used and works. It was dirty enough to > require a trip through the dishwasher though. It wasn't to hard to open and wipe the contacts afterwards. > > The RS pad (special catalog item likely not their manufacuture) > would work as would many others. Maybe I'm just more resorceful > that others. Either that or rather that grouse about it I just do it. > > Allison > > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 16, 2001 2:14:29 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > Well, in that case, since the user manual is posted at the URL included in the > original post, and you'll see it's not the "usual" scanning matrix being a 7x3 > or some other obtuse pattern, and not easily physically replaced with a > run-of-the mill matrix keypad. Since you have a KIM-1, you know what the size > is, and you know what the Radio Shack product is. If the RS product would fit > in place of the original perhaps you could indicate that. If your keypad is > still working, it's clear you haven't used it much. Just let us know ... don't > equivocate. Putting a Radio Shack product on a KIM-1 kind-of makes my skin > crawl, but if it will fit closely as a replacement for the original, and if > that's what's wanted, why not? > > The designers did provide access to the scanning inputs, however, so an external > and much more comfortable and durable keypad could be put in place with little > hassle. If the desired solution is to use a serious keypad the externally > applied replacement can be of whatever size is desired. > > It occurred to me over the Easter dinner at Mom's that one could use the top > segment of the capacitive switches by situating them over a perfboard with wire > leads soldered to it. The somewhat conductive pad on the lower surface of the > key will close the circuit just fine if a bit of aluminum foil is > rubber-cemented to its conductive surface. If it seems I don't know what sort > of switches are in a PC keyboard, that's because I don't, BTW. The only > PC-targeted keyboard I've disassembled has been that MicroSwitch model. That > should, however, make the surplus PC-keyboard's switches useable. They're > mechanically and ergonomically decent enough. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ajp166" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 4:16 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > From: Richard Erlacher > > >If that were true, this entire thread would not have occurred. The > > problem with > > >most of these matrix keypads in a single, solid, monolithically-molded > > assembly > > > > > > NO it's someone that hasn't an idea how or what it is. RS sells a > > universal > > keypad kit (not usually stocked in the stores) that would work fine. One > > from a calc would also work. If someones is doing museam restore that > > would be harder. > > > > Besides I obviously don't know anything about it even though I have a > > KIM-1 > > in working condition. > > > > Allison > > > > > > > > > > > > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Apr 16 08:37:47 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: DEC prices and designs behind the times? In-Reply-To: <381681478.987424609358.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> from ajp me at "Apr 16, 2001 08:36:49 am" Message-ID: <200104161337.f3GDbl206968@bg-tc-ppp749.monmouth.com> > To start with the switcher in question is 1987 design maybe earlier. > The MV2000 was available in 87 or 88 if memory > serves. And even if I'm wrong it's very definatly pre1990. > > Dec often used standardized designs for years despite technology. > Regarding you comment on rotating technology.. your wrong. The biggest >problem is that often the older technologies were kept available too long or > in service too long. Add to that usually > at least 50% of the rotating memory was not even DEC to start with. Look at the DEC designed products. > > Allison Dick also neglects to understand the additional maintainability and diagnostic features DEC added to the drives they built and the ones added on via the DCL and RM adapter which gave them superior maintanability and ease of diagnosis. Just compare the TM03 or RP06 diags with those of their competitors at the same time. I'll take the DEC ones any day. Very few third party controllers had half the maintainablily features of the DEC ones. Emulex was probably the best all around emulating controllers. Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent's 32 bit machines were on a diagnostic par with very early PDP11's... or 8's. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Apr 16 09:50:30 2001 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: (fwd) Computer collection for sale in the UK Message-ID: If anyone is interested, please contact this individual directly. I have no connection with this except that he found my address on my "classic computers" web page. On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 18:09:07 +0100, "gen" wrote: >Hi there > >I got your email address from the internet. > >I have a substantial UK collection of 'antique' computers, mostly 'first >editions' of systems such as Apple, IBM, Sirius, Apricot, Macintosh, Epson, >etc. These are not old and used, they are in pristine condition in their >original boxes with manuals, software & literature. Would you know of >anyone >interested in buying it? I am based in the UK. > >Regards > > > > > > > Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 16 10:01:03 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed References: <381681478.987424609358.JavaMail.root@web443-wrb> Message-ID: <001001c0c686$286e2bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp me" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 6:36 AM Subject: Re: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed > To start with the switcher in question is 1987 design maybe earlier. > The MV2000 was available in 87 or 88 if memory > serves. And even if I'm wrong it's very definitely pre1990. > AND there's no reason to believe that because it behaves as I described, it's because of an obsolete design. It's quite likely that they didn't want the supply kicking on unless there was a load. PC supplies were designed that way ... of course that was in 1980 ... > > Dec often used standardized designs for years despite technology. > Regarding you comment on rotating technology.. your wrong. The > biggest problem is that often the older technologies were kept > available too long or in service too long. Add to that usually > at least 50% of the rotating memory was not even DEC to > start with. Look at the DEC designed products. > >From what I observed, the DEC rotatin memory subsystems were ALWAYS of old technology, i.e. used SMD after nobody else would ship SMD devices, and didn't start to use SCSI until forced to do so by market demand and not until long after third-party competitors had been beating them in the marketplace. It was EMULEX, IIRC, that forced them out of the '70's with their disk drive subsystems. I wasn't aware that DEC ever built a disk drive. Their products seemed to me to be rebadged and repackaged drives from other makers, only at 10x the current price. Those DEC labels were surely expensive. > > Allison > ------Original Message------ > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 16, 2001 3:03:26 AM GMT > Subject: Re: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed > > > Back in the early '80's it wasn't uncommon for switchers to malfunction, or, if > designed somewhat better, to fail to function at all, if no load was present. > This is consistent with DEC's practice of putting out 10-year old technology in > its "current" products. Their rotating memory products were always at least > one, and often three, generations behind the "current" generation in other > makers' products. That ensured maximal profits for DEC shareholders and maximal > bonuses for their execs, though it also ensured last-generation performance or > less for their users. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Chase" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed > > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > Is anbody intimate enough with the VaxStation 2000 to provide a couple > > > of details? Here's the deal: > > > > Not really intimate with them, but I have used them to run NetBSD/vax and > > Ultrix. > > > > > I snagged a VaxStation 2000 box some time back, mainly for the PSU. > > > It turns out that it has a couple of lines, on the 9-pin MOLEX main > > > power output connector, the purpose of which is not clear. There's > > > one that seems to float at around -6 Volts DC, and another that floats > > > at high-impedance, yet, when the one at -6 is pulled to 0 (gnd) > > > through a resistor, the previously floating one suddenly has 9 volts > > > or so. Do these have a specific purpose that might serve some need > > > I'm likely to encounter, or are they just for the DEC folks' features? > > > Is there any way to capitalize on them, or should I just leave them > > > alone? All I'm after is fairly normal power output, with the added > > > benefit of a fan and switch. The +5 and bipolar 12's seem to work > > > fine. Spec's would be handy too, e.g. how much current can be drawn > > > from each of the supplies and, perhaps from all of them at once? > > > > I think (I'm not positive) this may be related to the nature of the power > > supply. I've not actually used them for anything but powering the > > components which normally make up a VAXstation 2000. They do have some > > interesting qualities, the main one being that they don't work right > > unless they've got a load on them. > > > > I've made the mistake of trying to run one diskless--which doesn't work. > > As soon as you add a disk drive, then the system goes through it's power > > up sequence without problem. DEC did make a diskless version of the > > VS2000, but it had a big resistor board that plugged into the internal > > drive power cable. > > > > I'm sure someone here can address the actual reasons why the power supply > > behaves like this. I think it's a trait of older switching PSUs. But > > hopefully my "systems guy" observations provide some useful clues. > > > > -brian. > > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- > > Being an open and honest guy, in the big "Occupation" box in the center > > of the sheet, I had written the same thing that's on my business cards. > > "Internet Legend". -- K. > > > > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 16 10:11:01 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: DEC prices and designs behind the times? References: <200104161337.f3GDbl206968@bg-tc-ppp749.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <001401c0c687$72e3f300$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> I have to agree that they were well integrated and solidly supported. Since it does take a bit of time and the pace of the industry tends to deny that time to the developer, it does drive intentionally designed-reliable products away from the leading edge. Moreover, the DEC integration did tend to do a complete job of integrating the features of new interface standards as they became available, unlike IBM-PC types, which never used more than the basic read and write capability of the drives on the PC. Whereas performance testing of the MV-II against a 12.5 MHz PC/AT indicated the PC/AT could compute somewhat faster, DEC's OS and disk subsystem integration (MSCP) exploited the capabilities of SCSI to such an extent that the overall performance in multi-drive tests had the MV-II performing at nearly double the overall performance of the the PC-AT clones at 12.5 MHz with identical drives. The last time I had hands on a DEC machine was in 1989. I don't know how the newer ones stacked up against the later-generation PC's in terms of compute power, but I doubt the PC's did any better with their disk interface management. Nevertheless, DEC's gone, and the PC's aren't. I, for one, am not going to miss them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pechter" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 7:37 AM Subject: DEC prices and designs behind the times? > > To start with the switcher in question is 1987 design maybe earlier. > > The MV2000 was available in 87 or 88 if memory > > serves. And even if I'm wrong it's very definatly pre1990. > > > > Dec often used standardized designs for years despite technology. > > Regarding you comment on rotating technology.. your wrong. The biggest > >problem is that often the older technologies were kept available too long or > > in service too long. Add to that usually > > at least 50% of the rotating memory was not even DEC to start with. Look at the DEC designed products. > > > > Allison > > Dick also neglects to understand the additional maintainability and > diagnostic features DEC added to the drives they built and the ones > added on via the DCL and RM adapter which gave them superior maintanability > and ease of diagnosis. > > Just compare the TM03 or RP06 diags with those of their competitors > at the same time. > > I'll take the DEC ones any day. Very few third party controllers > had half the maintainablily features of the DEC ones. > > Emulex was probably the best all around emulating controllers. > > Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent's 32 bit machines were on a diagnostic par > with very early PDP11's... or 8's. > > Bill > > > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 > Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 > Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 16 10:19:56 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: NeXT Cube Computer Back Cover References: Message-ID: <003e01c0c688$b65b69f0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Reyes" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 1:21 AM Subject: Re: NeXT Cube Computer Back Cover > Thanks for the info. What would be nice is > a list of different back covers and the Text > that goes with each cover. Does any body on the > list have a Cube with someting other than the > NeXT logo and "Computer" on the back cover. > > To start the list > 1. NeXT logo and under the logo "Computer" 68030 1989? My cube says NEXTCube model n1000a under the logo From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 16 10:35:01 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <3AD7C15C.4C8674EB@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <20010416153501.91376.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Chomko wrote: > Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than Allison? Me. > I got the regular run-of-the-mill stuff, 8088, 286, 386, 486, 68Ks -most (no > 68060, tho). I do have a 186, not really rare but seemed to be skipped over > like the 68010 (don't have one, either). Can't say I really have a scare > microprocessor. I did manage to get the Mot 88K chipset of all things. My SBC list - Quest Elf, COSMAC VIP, Z-80 "starter kit", Motorola 4MHz 68000 evaluation board, SYM-1, AIM-65, BASIC Stamp I (14-pin SIP module). My SBC shopping list - KIM-1 (with working keyboard, natch' :-), Elf-II, IM6100-based board (Intercept?), Motorola 68330 evaluation board. I have the article from 1978 where the Elf-II is written up (http://penguincentral.com/retrocompuing/ElfII/). I've just re-done the text at the end and am preparing to scan in the missing figures. Some of that is the actual artwork for the Elf-II PCB. I know I can buy iron-on transfer paper, but I've never made a double-sided PCB at home, only single-sided (and then, only with rub-on transfers). Has anyone out there ever made double-sided boards at home? I'd feel better if I had a layout package and made my own files so that they'd be nice and square, as opposed to a scan from a 23-year-old magazine, digitized and laser printed, but I haven't found a layout package yet that I could manage to start from schematic and end up with something printable. Suggestions there would be nice, too. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 16 10:42:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: What's DEC doing at Data General site...? In-Reply-To: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: <20010416154230.57987.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bruce Ray wrote: > G'day DEC'heads- > > While updating our Data General-oriented web site I've added a new DEC photo > section to the web site just for nostalgia sake: > > http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/dec.htm Nice shots. I recognize a bunch of them, but I've never _seen_ a pedestal-mounted PDP-8/i (I've had a rack mounted one since high-school). Has anyone here ever seen that -8/i variant? It looks right off the set of Space: 1999. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Apr 16 11:09:32 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: What's DEC doing at Data General site...? In-Reply-To: <20010416154230.57987.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> I was wondering the same thing -- I'd _love_ to have one of those in my office!! -- Tony At 08:42 AM 4/16/2001 -0700, you wrote: >--- Bruce Ray wrote: > > G'day DEC'heads- > > > > While updating our Data General-oriented web site I've added a new DEC > photo > > section to the web site just for nostalgia sake: > > > > http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/dec.htm > >Nice shots. I recognize a bunch of them, but I've never _seen_ a >pedestal-mounted PDP-8/i (I've had a rack mounted one since high-school). > >Has anyone here ever seen that -8/i variant? It looks right off the set >of Space: 1999. > >-ethan > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 16 11:18:32 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: <20010416133348.88212.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01Apr16.122716edt.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Monday, April 16, 2001, at 09:33 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Nice if you've got a color splitter, but doesn't a B&W camera produce a > crisper image than a color camera? That only matters for print > digitizing, > of course. You would have been able to digitize video stills, which was > a big deal back then. The cameras intended for use with the DigiView's colorwheel were B&W Considering that it's captures were done in 4096 colors, it was pretty advanced for it's time. Other than expensive high-end stuff, few video cards were even capable of displaying to that depth. It would be nearly two years before the PS/2 would introduce VGA and it's 256 color mode in the same resolution. Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 16 11:28:21 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <20010416153501.91376.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01Apr16.123654edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Monday, April 16, 2001, at 11:35 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- Eric Chomko wrote: >> Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than >> Allison? > > Me. The only true SBC I have is my VIM-1. I've a few others that are nearly self-contained though, such as my AT2286 bridgeboard for the bigbox Amiga's, as well as an ISA coprocessor card that has a 68020/68882, I/O and approx 4meg of RAM, plus various Z-80 coprocessor cards for the Apple II and III machines. Jeff From root at parse.com Mon Apr 16 11:51:44 2001 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Looking for PDP-8..12 in Ottawa/ON/Canada area Message-ID: <200104161651.MAA06857@parse.com> Hi folks, I was referred to this list be a gentleman from Ottawa, and he suggested that there might be some PDP-8..12 computers floating around that you folks might know of? I've managed to get a line on 20 X PDP-11/70's in Seattle/WA, but then I looked at how much it would cost to ship :-) Basically, in order of priority, I'm looking for the following: PDP-8/I PDP-8/L PDP-8/S PDP-12 PDP-11/20 Also, I'm looking for schematics, docs, etc... Thanks in advance for your help! Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 16 11:55:30 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010413102234.019920e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: > keep it "all in the family" so to speak, take pictures on a classiccamera > (I love the Leica) and be even better. With the Summicron lens, there is nothing nicer. But I never got around to "upgrading" to the "new" models with bayonet lens mounts. If anyone wants a project for the ultimate way to photograph small parts, like mice and disk drive parts, . . . I need to part with my Fujinon Holography Camera http://www.xenosoft.com/fujinon/MVC-001F.JPG through http://www.xenosoft.com/fujinon/MVC-012F.JPG about $100, local pickup only - I do NOT want to deal with shipping. I don't know how old it is, but I got it used 20 years ago. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 16 12:01:06 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics In-Reply-To: <002101c0c567$893db580$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Probably bad advice, resulting in a shooting. VERY close guess! Can we assume from that that you have lots of expertise with serial interfacing? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jm_chu at hotmail.com Mon Apr 16 12:41:41 2001 From: jm_chu at hotmail.com (John Chu) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8501 Data Management Unit Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/06c455fc/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 16 12:43:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed In-Reply-To: <001001c0c686$286e2bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 16, 1 09:01:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1106 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/ca48b83e/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Apr 16 12:49:32 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?)" (Apr 16, 8:35) References: <20010416153501.91376.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10104161849.ZM6718@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 16, 8:35, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Some of > that is the actual artwork for the Elf-II PCB. I know I can buy iron-on > transfer paper, but I've never made a double-sided PCB at home, only > single-sided (and then, only with rub-on transfers). Has anyone out there > ever made double-sided boards at home? Yes, plenty of times. I use tracing film, but I suppose you could use transfer paper if you're careful (I've never tried it). I make sure I mark one of the corners and one edge of the layout exactly in registration on both layers. When I expose the PCB, I make sure the raw PCB is exactly lined up on that corner and edge for both exposures (both sides). It helps if the raw PCB is carefully cut! Transfer paper might actually be easier if oyu can do both sides at once, but you'd have to make sure it didn't stretch or warp. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 16 12:55:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: <20010416133348.88212.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 16, 1 06:33:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2216 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/842b2c06/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Apr 16 13:15:14 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >I have recently found an Apple II that is a bit interesting. Its > > Rare enough to be valuable, common enough to show on ebay regularly. > > No idea exactly what one must be worth these days, the standard contents > and condition certainly apply. $100 to maybe $250 for a nice fairly > complete system doesn't sound too far fetched, but neither does $25. My recollection of an earlier dialogue on the same package is that they were garden variety Apple IIs except for the black case, and that had been sold to Bell & Howell for use as a part of their Computer Correspondence School. - don From donm at cts.com Mon Apr 16 13:18:37 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: CP/M for AES 7100/Lanier Dedicated Word Processor ??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010416075434.3baf24a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > I don't know what's on them but I have a PILE of the hard sectored > Lanier disks. I was wondering if they were usable in any other machines. > > Joe Northstar and Exidy - and likely others - if 10-sector and some Vector Graphic if 16. - don > At 12:51 AM 4/16/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi > > > >I picked up one of these AES/Lanier 7100 a few weeks ago. > > > >It's in near perfect shape and boots to what looks like a word processor. > > > >The WP software thats in there right now is on 5 1/4 hard sector disks... > > > >I have heard rumors that a version of CP/M was available for this machine. > > > >Anyone ever heard or seen this or would by any chance have a copy? > > > >Claude > >Canuk Computer Collector > >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\CPMforAE.htm" > > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 16 13:58:50 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: <01Apr16.122716edt.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010416185850.54833.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > On Monday, April 16, 2001, at 09:33 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Nice if you've got a color splitter, but doesn't a B&W camera produce a > > crisper image than a color camera? That only matters for print > > digitizing, > > of course. You would have been able to digitize video stills, which was > > a big deal back then. > > The cameras intended for use with the DigiView's colorwheel were > B&W When I mentioned "video stills", I meant that it was something he could do special because he had a color splitter, not just because he had a Digiview. I remember that the standard camera used with it was B&W. I had one back then (always wanted the DigiDroid). Still have it somewhere. That's why I made the distinction between print and video imageing. Sorry if I was verbally ambiguous. > Considering that it's captures were done in 4096 colors, it was > pretty advanced for it's time. Other than expensive high-end stuff, few > video cards were even capable of displaying to that depth. Unless you had an Amiga. :-) I don't think I got 16-bit color on a PeeCee until 1996. A video card with >256K was too expensive for my tastes. > It would be nearly two years before the PS/2 would introduce VGA and it's > 256 color mode in the same resolution. That's what we used to use as an argument for why it was better to own an Amiga than a PC at home in 1986. The general response was, "so what; who needs colors for a spreadsheet or a text file; that's just for games". This, like so many other cool technologies that were invented elsewhere than the PC world, was disdained by the mainstream until they could get it; then it was the latest cool thing (stereo sound, video animation that didn't judder, networking built-in by default (Mac/LocalTalk), GUI/mouse included by default (Amiga/Mac/some Ataris), video coprocessor/graphics accelerator, 3.5" floppies, common peripheral bus (ADB before USB), >640K RAM (wait... they _did_ want that before they could get it ;-), Plug-n-Play not Plug-n-Pray (Amiga AUTOCONFIG), bootable CD-ROM (Mac, SPARC, etc.) I'm sure I missed some. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Mon Apr 16 14:34:38 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: CP/M for AES 7100/Lanier Dedicated Word Processor ??? References: Message-ID: <3B6ED689.6503D83F.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Heathkit H-89's can use 10 sector 5 1/4 floppies, most likely H-8's as well. Bob Mason classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > > > > On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Joe wrote: > > > ? ? I don't know what's on them but I have a PILE of the hard sectored > > Lanier disks. I was wondering if they were usable in any other machines. > > > > ? ? ?Joe > ? > Northstar and Exidy - and likely others - if 10-sector and some Vector > Graphic if 16. ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- don > > ? > > At 12:51 AM 4/16/01 -0400, you wrote: > > >Hi > > > > > >I picked up one of these AES/Lanier 7100 a few weeks ago. > > > > > >It's in near perfect shape and boots to what looks like a word processor. > > > > > >The WP software thats in there right now is on 5 1/4 hard sector disks... > > > > > >I have heard rumors that a version of CP/M was available for this machine. > > > > > >Anyone ever heard or seen this or would by any chance have a copy? > > > > > >Claude > > >Canuk Computer Collector > > >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > > > > >Attachment Converted: "C:\ATTACH\CPMforAE.htm" > > > > > > > > > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, '98, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From Parapadakis at Tesco.Net Mon Apr 16 14:12:52 2001 From: Parapadakis at Tesco.Net (George Parapadakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:22 2005 Subject: Micro-Expander disks Message-ID: <000201c0c6b2$dc766980$8057ac3e@home98> Hello, Back in '82, I used a micro-Expander with a floppy drive. It run CP/M an we used it for CIS-COBOL programming. If I remeber, the disk-drive was an Micropolis(???) Does anybody know the details of the disk format, so that I can read the disks I have? Regards George Parapadakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/59bfccda/attachment.html From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 16 15:23:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Photo equimpent for hardware web pics (Re: Technico (Re: TI In-Reply-To: <20010416185850.54833.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01Apr16.163133edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Monday, April 16, 2001, at 02:58 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> It would be nearly two years before the PS/2 would introduce VGA and >> it's >> 256 color mode in the same resolution. > > That's what we used to use as an argument for why it was better to own > an > Amiga than a PC at home in 1986. The general response was, "so what; > who As you can probably tell from the number of times I mention them, I rather like Amiga's. I remember doing a side/side comparision between Mean-18 and Jack Nicholas golf games on the PC and a similar game on the Amiga (don't recall which one but we had it running on an A500 at the time). This was in 1988 and there was absolutely no contest. Not only were the graphics much better but the Amiga game allowed shots and stuff that you couldn't do in the PC games. One of my all time favorite games was 'Marble Madness'. It's too bad the Amiga stagnated as it did, though the smaller developers did an awesome job trying to keep it going. I miss my A3000. As for the PC, it has some nice hardware, but nothing I'd say was revolutionary. It's weighted down too much by all the legacy stuff to truly break new ground. Jeff From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Apr 16 15:30:20 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II References: Message-ID: They have the black case and an integrated handle/power breakout box/ 1/4" Phono jack cassette ports in back. Nothing exotic, just some extra jacks for monitor/accessories, some jacks for headphones or the like, and a nice big industrial-strength handle to wrap the cord around and carry the beast. Sucker is HEAVY. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 2:15 PM Subject: Re: Belle & Howell Apple II > > > On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > >I have recently found an Apple II that is a bit interesting. Its > > > > Rare enough to be valuable, common enough to show on ebay regularly. > > > > No idea exactly what one must be worth these days, the standard contents > > and condition certainly apply. $100 to maybe $250 for a nice fairly > > complete system doesn't sound too far fetched, but neither does $25. > > My recollection of an earlier dialogue on the same package is that they > were garden variety Apple IIs except for the black case, and that had > been sold to Bell & Howell for use as a part of their Computer > Correspondence School. > - don > > > From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Apr 16 15:49:49 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator Message-ID: <003301c0c6b6$c78c92c0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hi Folks I'ts been a productive Easter ........ Hope you had a nice couple of days also 25 years ago National Semiconductor introduced the SC/MP microprocessor Today I finished the alpha release of an Emulator for the SC/MP. It is written in Visual Basic 6.0 and the sources are included also. Docs and background are also info aviable. The Dutch Elektuur magazine (Elektor) devoted a lot of space 24 years ago to a build-it-yourself SC/MP system. The firstversion came with dip-switches to toggle in binary data into 256bytes of RAM. Fiddeling with a few other switches would lead to running programs and getting output via 8 LEDs. This system is what the emulator emulates. Kinda Altair but with a very simple CPU. I've also dedicated part of my website to this program and will eventually add more SCMP-stuff. You can read about and fetch the proggy at: http://xgistor.ath.cx Go => Vintage Computers => SC/MP Elektor Emulator --------------------------------------------------------------------- Sipke de Wal From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 16 15:53:19 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) References: <01Apr16.123654edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3ADB5BBF.120C0273@greenbelt.com> Jeff, Jeff Hellige wrote: > On Monday, April 16, 2001, at 11:35 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Eric Chomko wrote: > >> Interesting regarding chips and SBCs. Who collects them, other than > >> Allison? > > > > Me. > > The only true SBC I have is my VIM-1. I've a few others that are > nearly self-contained though, such as my AT2286 bridgeboard for the > bigbox Amiga's, as well as an ISA coprocessor card that has a > 68020/68882, I/O and approx 4meg of RAM, plus various Z-80 coprocessor > cards for the Apple II and III machines. > I have a board by DSI that is a 68020/68882 ISA board that basically runs on a PC. Is the Apple Z-80 coprocessor boards the so-called "CP/M boards"? Eric > > Jeff From emu at ecubics.com Mon Apr 16 16:16:02 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator References: <003301c0c6b6$c78c92c0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3ADB6112.D3C0ECED@ecubics.com> Sipke de Wal wrote: > The Dutch Elektuur magazine (Elektor) devoted a lot of space 24 years ago > to a build-it-yourself SC/MP system. The firstversion came with dip-switches to > toggle in binary data into 256bytes of RAM. Was in the german version of elektor too. scampi ;-) Was fun ... cheers From ip500 at home.com Mon Apr 16 16:14:37 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: HP Rack mount monitor ?? Message-ID: <3ADB60BD.82C21851@home.com> Just picked up a neat looking HP 6947A "Raster Display" .. looks like a rack mountable monitor to me or ... is it some sort of X/Y plotter/graph display w/o video capabilities? Manual copy would be great too. Any info appreciated, Craig From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Apr 16 16:12:55 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Test Message-ID: <3ADB6057.403432BC@idirect.com> Testing From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Apr 16 17:36:36 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: DC-30 tape ?? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010416173636.239f165e@mailhost.intellistar.net> I just found several boxes of "Verbatim DC 30 Data Cassette" tapes. I've never seen these before. Does anyone knwo what they're for? In their boxes, they measure 4 3/8" x 2 7/8" x 5/8". The look like an over-sized audio cassette tape. They're driven by the tape hubs and the case does not have a metalbase plate like that found on most data cassettes. There is a note on the back of the tape saying "Do not to record on this side. Side B has a 1600 FCI Pre-recorded clock track for tape speed control". Joe From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 16 16:33:18 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: HP Rack mount monitor ?? In-Reply-To: <3ADB60BD.82C21851@home.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010416143230.02a25838@208.226.86.10> The only HP X-Y display I've seen said "X-Y display" on the front and had X, Y, and Z (intensity) inputs on the back. I'm guessing its a rack mount monochrome monitor. --Chuck At 05:14 PM 4/16/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Just picked up a neat looking HP 6947A "Raster Display" .. looks like a >rack mountable monitor to me or ... is it some sort of X/Y plotter/graph >display w/o video capabilities? Manual copy would be great too. > Any info appreciated, Craig From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Apr 16 16:40:48 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? Message-ID: <3ADB66E0.40526915@idirect.com> Is this a duplicate message? I sent it at 16:04:04 - 04:00 (EDT) just over 92 minutes ago! Either did not receive it or (more likely) my ISP did not send it! Or my ISP lost the reply! The test message I sent at 17:12:55 took about 20 minutes round trip - not too bad, but since it has been over an hour and a half for this message, here it is again! I suspect the most likely possibility is that the original was lost since I have received many e-mails from classiccmp today!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of all the individuals of whom I am aware of that are still interested in any aspect of RT-11, about half subscribe to this list. Since this is still essentially a private as opposed to a public list (such as a news group), I would like some help plus an opinion on whether or not anyone would still be interested in an RT-11 News Letter? Also, should Mentec be approached to possibly support, provide a forum or at the very least provide its blessing? Obviously, I could just send a brief request via this list along with the "alt.sys.pdp11", and "vmsnet.pdp-11" news groups before I even contacted Mentec to find out if enough people are interested. But if some suggestions and feedback are useful prior to that inquiry, then Mentec might be more receptive. Note that the News Letter could be for both hobby and commercial users. Topics could be Y2K compliance for the hobby V5.03 as well as bug fixes for current V5.07 and enhancements for all versions. DEC used to publish an RT-11 status document each month, but there are obviously no funds as well as no need at this point due to the internet making distribution costs zero. However, I suspect there are not many more years left before interest may dip below a self-sustaining level. Consequently, it might be helpful to find someone who will attempt to assist new converts as well as helping with bugs and enhancements. I know that some interest remains in RT-11 and I would like to pass on my information so that it can be preserved. By the way, has anyone heard anything more about the hobby license issues for all PDP-11 software from Mentec along with anything specific about RT-11? I would appreciate any and all comments along with suggestions on how to proceed with getting Mentec involved (Is that a plus or a minus?) although at this point I feel the chances are very low and I would be more than satisfied if Mentec was just neutral. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 16 16:56:19 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: unix for the Interdata model 70 ??? References: <200104161651.MAA06857@parse.com> Message-ID: <017001c0c6c0$123d4680$3992a8c0@sympatico.ca> I recently picked up a nice Interdata model 70. Cool architecture, 16/32 bit instructions, fixed and floating point - the partial manual I have claimed IBM-360-like instructions. It's a microcoded machine with a "supervisor call" instruction but no memory managment or address extension beyond the 16 bit address bus. Does anyone have more info on these beasts - or what happened to them after Perkin Elmer bought Interdata? I've run a google search and came across many mentions of very early versions on unix being ported to the Interdata. Does anyone have an OS or heard of an early version of Unix for it? The machine seems to provide native hardware support for TTY paper and mag tape but I've seem no mention of disks....Unix without disks running on on 16Kb of 1 microsecond core could be very slow... Regards, Heinz Wolter From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 16 17:09:56 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <3ADB66E0.40526915@idirect.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010416145658.02891708@208.226.86.10> I saw this one Jerome... at 14:54PDT (GMT-7:00hrs) I don't think Mentec is in a very good place. On the one hand they have declining revenues from RT-11 and RSX-11M (and perhaps even the 11 clones) and on the other hand they have a bunch of folks who would like to be hobbyists using these systems. I can sympathize with their plight as a business. Unfortunately I believe they are now caught in a "death spiral." Given their condition, I offer the following predictions: 1) There will never be a Hobbyist license for RT-11 or RSX-11 Their words not withstanding, in "death spiral" mode they can only support things that provide _direct_ revenue. Things like a Hobbyist program or newsletter are indirect at best. 2) There will never be an unencumbered PDP-11 implementation At some point in the future Mentec will consist of some papers of incorporation, a box of preprinted cease-and-desist letters, and a lawyer. These papers and letters will sit in a drawer of a file cabinet. Whenever something related to RT-11, RSX-11, or PDP-11s happens visibly, the lawyer will fire off a letter threatening suit and that activity will stop (or perhaps generate a bit of revenue). I know a couple of corporations that have made it to this state and unfortunately there is no way to "fix" them, except by paying said lawyer an immense amount of money and then releasing the intellectual property yourself. Sad really, --Chuck At 05:40 PM 4/16/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Is this a duplicate message? I sent it at 16:04:04 - 04:00 (EDT) just >over 92 minutes >ago! Either did not receive it or (more >likely) my ISP From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 16 17:15:10 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: HP Rack mount monitor ?? In-Reply-To: <3ADB60BD.82C21851@home.com> from "ip500" at Apr 16, 1 05:14:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 378 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/87d82120/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 16 17:18:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator In-Reply-To: <3ADB6112.D3C0ECED@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Apr 16, 1 03:16:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 905 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/8ce01a3b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 16 17:24:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: HP Rack mount monitor ?? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010416143230.02a25838@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 16, 1 02:33:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1175 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/ef104c78/attachment.ksh From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Apr 16 17:10:31 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: Eric Chomko's message of "Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:53:19 -0400" References: <01Apr16.123654edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ADB5BBF.120C0273@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <200104162210.f3GMAVD14215@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Eric Chomko wrote: > Is the Apple Z-80 coprocessor boards the so-called "CP/M boards"? Some, like the PCPI Applicard, may have more claim to SBCness than others; the Applicard doesn't rely on the Apple for much other than power (unlike the Softcard-alikes which used the Apple's RAM) and I think I remember PCPI demoing one at Applefest in Boston in 1982 by way of having the card out on the table with a 9V battery hooked up to it via clip-leads. Mind, I can't remember what it was actually doing (if anything) without any I/O hooked up to it. -Frank McConnell From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 16 17:38:22 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Don Maslin wrote: > My recollection of an earlier dialogue on the same package is that they > were garden variety Apple IIs except for the black case, and that had > been sold to Bell & Howell for use as a part of their Computer > Correspondence School. My recollection was that they had a different power cord, and a latch/lock to prevent opening the case. They were a clever marketing move. For a while, schools had difficulty getting approval for computer purchases, since that was "territory" of district data processing, and because school boards wouldn't recognize products from little unknown companies named after fruit. But it was EASY to slide it into a purchase order for Hell and Bowel, in between a couple of projectors. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Apr 16 17:42:52 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator References: Message-ID: <008101c0c6c6$928cd020$030101ac@boll.casema.net> > Tony Duel wrote: > > And in the UK version IIRC. The version I remember had a PCB with the > SC/MP (the origial PMOS version) and IIRC the crystal on it, linked by > ribbon cables (with individual socket contacts on each wire -- no IDC > connectors :-() to another board with the memory and DIP switches, etc on it. > Yep that's the one ! My emulator has the look and feel of this bastard, but I added a bit more RAM and quite a few support features, like saving RAM-images, Hand-assembly load from text files, Trace-log feature. etc..... Nice to hear that someone else ever build this thingy. I still have mine but it needs some refurbishing. I put up a photo of it soon Sipke de Wal -------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx From jss at ou.edu Mon Apr 16 17:43:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <3ADB66E0.40526915@idirect.com> References: <3ADB66E0.40526915@idirect.com> Message-ID: <987460996.3adb75844140c@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jerome Fine : > Also, should Mentec be approached to possibly support, provide a > forum or at the very least provide its blessing? > > By the way, has anyone heard anything more about the hobby license > issues for all PDP-11 software from Mentec along with anything > specific about RT-11? I haven't messed with RT-11 (yet), but I would support any effort to get Mentec's "blessing" for hobby use. You can add my name to the list of interested persons. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 16 18:13:00 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <004201c0c6cb$38c5ed10$84799a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've seen it, >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads wouldn't know >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had it on the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that might as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to read a catalog these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" mentality taken over? Allison From bdc at world.std.com Mon Apr 16 18:26:08 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: RT11 In-Reply-To: <3ADAF1E3.279CFD41@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > >Bill Pechter wrote: > > Rarely... I do have a set of v5.1 SRC Microfiche and the fiche for > > Fortran and multi-user basic. Now to just get a fiche reader. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Please do not toss them. In the long run, I hope to put together a > collection of DEC distributions AFTER they become available to hobby > users. This would be in addition to the superb collection of DECUS > RT-11 software that Tim Shoppa produced. I am sure that Tim also has > many of the DEC distributions, but he now seems to have withdrawn from > the RT-11 (indeed from all PDP-11) discussions due to other much more > reasonable commitments (like earning a living). Tim's still very active helping out the classic computer cause. These days he seems to be focusing on PDP-10 family systems. There are now *two* seperate efforts to generate PDP-10 simulators. One by Bob Supnik and another by Timothy Stark. I believe both simulators are able to run TOPS-10 7.04 with few glitches. Tim Shoppa maintains a TOPS-10 archive at the following URL: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ -brian. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 16 18:21:01 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: VaxStation 2000 PSU info needed Message-ID: <008e01c0c6cd$5e3634e0$84799a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >> To start with the switcher in question is 1987 design maybe earlier. >> The MV2000 was available in 87 or 88 if memory >> serves. And even if I'm wrong it's very definitely pre1990. >> >AND there's no reason to believe that because it behaves as I described, it's >because of an obsolete design. It's quite likely that they didn't want the >supply kicking on unless there was a load. PC supplies were designed that way >... of course that was in 1980 ... PC supplies would overvoltage and crowbar there was no intelligence in their design or applied to it. >From what I observed, the DEC rotatin memory subsystems were >ALWAYS of old technology, i.e. used SMD after nobody else >would ship SMD devices, and didn't start to use SCSI until forced >to do so by market demand and not until long after third-party >competitors had been beating them in the marketplace. Whats wrong with SMD? It was better than SCSI-1, and SCSI-2. And there was no third party standard for SCSI at all until the late 80s. Even then DEC had far faster technologies and regarded it for low end slower systems. >It was EMULEX, IIRC, that forced them out of the '70's with their >disk drive subsystems. I wasn't aware that DEC ever built a disk >drive. Their products seemed to me to be rebadged and Then you arent aware. All the RA8x and 9x were DEC as were the initial RZ2x series and a long list of others. They did off the shelf stuff too but then that was usually for the smaller packaged systems or where time was a market driver. >repackaged drives from other makers, only at 10x the current >price. Those DEC labels were surely expensive. Much of it markup but also a fair amount getting the vendor to fix errors spotted by DEC, getting it to comply to spec and in many cases getting it to pass FCC. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 16 18:30:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator Message-ID: <008f01c0c6cd$5eaa5370$84799a8d@ajp166> From: Sipke de Wal >> And in the UK version IIRC. The version I remember had a PCB with the >> SC/MP (the origial PMOS version) and IIRC the crystal on it, linked by >> ribbon cables (with individual socket contacts on each wire -- no IDC >> connectors :-() to another board with the memory and DIP switches, etc on it. >> >Yep that's the one ! Mine is the original NS design. The NS design used a 110baud TTY no switches save for reset. Allison From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 16 18:51:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Which machine/model should I get? Apple In-Reply-To: <01Apr16.163133edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: <20010416185850.54833.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One of the questions never well enough answered to suit me, is which machine/model should I get as a "first" machine of that brand. Not which is rarest, oldest, etc., but what is fairly easy to get in working condition and makes a good representitive of the brand and/or era. I would really like to see something like this as a guide to each brand. For Apple I can kick things off with a few suggestions. "*"notes best in class, "***" best overall. Apple II series IIc+, Its small, cheap, has both 1 mhz and 4 mhz modes, and with a couple of the correct floppy drives it should run anything and make copies etc. of anything (up to IIgs specific software). * IIgs (rom 3), the gs should support most earlier Apple II software, plus it makes a good bridge to the mac era machines with ADB and localtalk support. The IIgs also has unique sound abilities, and is really about the only choice short of emulation to run the later IIgs specific software. Mac (early) * SE/30 (except I am not sure "all" the early mac software will run on a SE/30, comments?) This is a small powerfull machine, not too difficult to put on a network. Mac color * IIci, small fast with fpu, 3 open nubus slots, basic video on the motherboard, cheap common memory. Mac 68040 Quadra 700, same size as IIci, but with a 25 Mhz 68040. This machine defines the minimum requirements for a lot of software. No internal CD support. *** Quadra 650, full size mac, but uses cheap 72 pin memory, 33 mhz full 68040, and is easy to find and sells cheaply. Option for internal CD Quadra 950, full tower chassis, but uses 16 x 30 pins simms. Otherwise this is very comparable to the Quadra650, with the choice based mostly on size and what you find first at the best price. Option for internal CD, but rare and expensive to add on. PowerMac * 7500, desktop size, cheapest option that is G4 upgradable. A solid, well supported mac. Choices made factor in cost, size, ease of use and repair, and how well they represent the qualities of the brand. For the full mac experience, run two large monitors side by side. Chances are good I will update this after I get some comments. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 16 17:40:34 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Belle & Howell Apple II In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >My recollection of an earlier dialogue on the same package is that they >were garden variety Apple IIs except for the black case, and that had >been sold to Bell & Howell for use as a part of their Computer >Correspondence School. That was more of a side issue, the main "deal", was selling Apples through Bell and Howells established AV accounts with schools. From r.stek at snet.net Mon Apr 16 19:07:55 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: My collection Message-ID: Better late than never... Apple II+ Apple IIe Apple IIc Apple III mono monitor Apple Lisa XL - dealer demo in orig. packing Mac Plus Mac SE 30 Mac LC III Mac Color Classic Coco Coco II Coco III Model 100 portable Vic-20, boxed C-64 PC 5150 PC XT 5160 PC AT PC Jr. - dealer demo in carrying case Portable PC 5155 Datavue 8088 laptop HP 85 ProcTech Sol-20's, 1 w/ Helios II NorthStar Horizon - 2 360k floppies NorthStar Horizon - 5 MB HD IMSAI 8080 w/ NorthStar dual floppies Morrow Decision I w/ HD Godbout CompuPro - Z80 Godbout CompuPro - dual 8085 + 8088 Ithaca InterSystems Timex Sinclair 1000 Sinclair ZX-81 Ohio Scientific Challenger Lobo Max w/ 10 MB HD Epson PX-8 Sinclair Z88 Osborne Executive KayPro II KayPro 10 KIM-1 Synertek SYM-1 TI 99/4 and others I've forgotten about... Most are in storage and haven't seen daylight in 2 years, unfortunately. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Apr 16 19:11:40 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer References: <200104160743.f3G7h1C05208@bg-tc-ppp749.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <028201c0c6d2$fa618220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pechter" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Singer > Boeing used Vax systems in their simulators. Looks like Lockheed did too. The P3 Orion simulator at RAAF Edinburgh (just out of Adelaide) uses a herd of large Vaxen (8xxx series I think) I believe it runs VMS and a custom written software package. I've driven the simulator itself several times now, but never had a chance to visit the machine room, just a glimpse as we went past. I've promised myself that my next posting there I will make it. (Probably for a couple of weeks in June or July - depending what courses we are running there at the time.) If I do, I will see if I can get permission to take some pics of the systems in operation, AFAIK, nothing in there is classified except for the simulator software itself. This is probably one of the last big Vax farms still in current use, so some documentation is probably appropriate. The simulator itself is a P3 cockpit on hydraulic stilts, and is sufficiently realistic to make you airsick. The view is night only, but it's very convincing. Only indication of the systems attached to it is the VT320 at the sim supervisors station just inside the door on the left, with a curtain to hide it from the 'pilots'. OT Background: Edinburgh is the home of 10 and 11 Squadrons RAAF, which operate P3's in the maritime surveillance role. Commander, Maritime Patrol Group is the most senior RAAF officer in South Australia, and whilst theoretically a Group Captain's position, (~Full Colonel) it is normally held by an Air Commodore (~1 star General) Cheers (Quick hat change) FLGOFF (AIRTC) Geoff Roberts Officer Commanding No. 14 (City of Port Pirie) Flight S.A. Squadron Air Training Corps geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From blacklord at telstra.com Mon Apr 16 19:49:20 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: My collection Message-ID: Oh well, while we're at it : CBM PET 2001 CBM PET 4032 VIC20 (several) C64 (several & variations) C128, 128D & 128DCR Plus/4 (2) C16 Amiga 1000 (several) Amiga 500 Amiga CDTV Amiga CD32 (several) Commodore PC10-II Commodore PC40 Commodore SLC Hewlett Packard HP85 (2) Spectravideo SV318 Spectravideo SV328 Triumph Adler Alphatronics PC Various pre-1980 video games consoles (too numerous to tally). Cheers, BL ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From elvey at hal.com Mon Apr 16 19:52:17 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: My collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104170052.f3H0qHL17721@civic.hal.com> Hi I've notice that many have relatively complete collections of various machine. I think it would be also interesting to know if the machine is in operational condition. Dwight From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Apr 16 19:54:56 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Cyber 910 References: <20010416141521Z433127-2813+337@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3ADB9459.62BA0891@heathers.stdio.com> Mark, Mark Green wrote: > > This is a bit of a problem. My usual solution to this problem is > to boot a mini-root and edit the password file. You will probably > need to have an OS distribution in order to do this. What > you can do depends upon how your machine has been configured. > Start by getting into the PROM monitor, when you system boots > you will get a message that asks you to press ESC for system > maintenance. Press ESC, and then select option 5. This will get > you into the monitor. At the monitor prompt type ls and tell > me what you get. If you are lucky there might be a mini-root > there. There usually isn't, since its a security hole, but some > system admins back then were lazy and put a mini-root where it could > easily be booted from the PROM (this is more likely on a tape > based system). > > I did get into the monitor and did a ? to check out the commands. I probably won't get back to the box until later this week so I'll check for the mini-root then. Will changing the /etc/passwd file take care of it or are the passwords shadowed? > > I don't have any tapes handy that might have an OS on it, I probably > won't make a trip back to Edmonton to check until August. Its > much easier to do the install from CD. If you have a SCSI CD-ROM > drive you are in business (the ones used by SUN are fairly common > and easy to find). You can search eBay for IRIX 5.3 CDs, I've seen > them there numerous times. Some of the other IRIX CDs might have > a mini-root on them, depends upon how they are installed. > Excellent. I certainly have plenty of external CDROM drives around here. I'll start combing Ebay for a dist. > > I hope this helps a bit. > More than a bit. Thank you. Brian. > > -- > Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca > McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 > Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) > University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 16 19:43:06 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads In-Reply-To: <004201c0c6cb$38c5ed10$84799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" >mentality taken over? YES. For good or ill, it seems the ability to locate items on the web/real world varies greatly. In practice this often means that if I don't include a URL in "clickable" http://www.this.com/orthat.html format, all I have done is tease the person that the information/thing exists, as within their own abilities I have brought them no closer to a solution. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 16 20:31:45 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: <028201c0c6d2$fa618220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: Last I heard the US Navy had the same P-# Orion simulators up at Keflavik. They did when I was stationed there from 80 to 82 and I was surprised to hear that they are still there. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Geoff Roberts > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 7:12 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Singer > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Pechter" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: Singer > > > > Boeing used Vax systems in their simulators. > > Looks like Lockheed did too. > The P3 Orion simulator at RAAF Edinburgh (just out of Adelaide) uses a > herd of large Vaxen (8xxx series I think) > I believe it runs VMS and a custom written software package. > I've driven the simulator itself several times now, but never had a > chance to visit the machine > room, just a glimpse as we went past. I've promised myself that my next > posting there I will make it. > (Probably for a couple of weeks in June or July - depending what courses > we are running there at the time.) > If I do, I will see if I can get permission to take some pics of the > systems in operation, AFAIK, nothing > in there is classified except for the simulator software itself. This > is probably one of the last big Vax farms still > in current use, so some documentation is probably appropriate. > The simulator itself is a P3 cockpit on hydraulic stilts, and is > sufficiently realistic to make you airsick. > The view is night only, but it's very convincing. Only indication of > the systems attached to > it is the VT320 at the sim supervisors station just inside the door on > the left, with a curtain to hide it from the 'pilots'. > OT Background: > Edinburgh is the home of 10 and 11 Squadrons RAAF, which operate P3's in > the maritime surveillance role. > Commander, Maritime Patrol Group is the most senior RAAF officer in > South Australia, and whilst theoretically a Group Captain's position, > (~Full Colonel) it is normally held by an Air Commodore (~1 star > General) > > Cheers > (Quick hat change) > > FLGOFF (AIRTC) Geoff Roberts > Officer Commanding > No. 14 (City of Port Pirie) Flight > S.A. Squadron > Air Training Corps > geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au > ICQ: 1970476 > From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 16 20:54:56 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) In-Reply-To: <3ADB5BBF.120C0273@greenbelt.com> References: <01Apr16.123654edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ADB5BBF.120C0273@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: >I have a board by DSI that is a 68020/68882 ISA board that basically runs on >a PC. I believe mine is by DSI as well, though I'd have to check. A few years ago I asked about it on this list and was pointed towards it being a cross-development board of some sort. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the software or manuals for it. >Is the Apple Z-80 coprocessor boards the so-called "CP/M boards"? That's exactly what they are, including the MS Softcard III for the Apple III. They aren't the same though, which is why they were mentioned with the 'but' tacked on. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 16 21:02:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Last I heard the US Navy had the same P-# Orion simulators up at Keflavik. >They did when I was stationed there from 80 to 82 and I was surprised to >hear that they are still there. It would stand to reason though that at least some of them would remain in use as long as the Orion itself is kept in the active inventory. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Apr 16 20:44:40 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer References: Message-ID: <04d301c0c6df$f8613260$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: RE: Singer > Last I heard the US Navy had the same P-# Orion simulators up at Keflavik. > They did when I was stationed there from 80 to 82 and I was surprised to > hear that they are still there. My understanding from speaking to the 'locals' is that it's still easier/cheaper to keep it going in its present form than to rehash it to work on something more modern/compact, since it would require new interface hardware, as modern machines don't have the bus support for the existing interfaces. (IIRC, UNIBUS cards control the simulator hardware) The software would also require significant re-writing to correctly drive new hardware, not to mention the design cost of the new interfaces themselves. Way cheaper to just keep it going. Cheers Geoff From foo at siconic.com Mon Apr 16 20:17:19 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Which machine/model should I get? Apple In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > Apple II series > IIc+, Its small, cheap, has both 1 mhz and 4 mhz modes, and with a couple > of the correct floppy drives it should run anything and make copies etc. of > anything (up to IIgs specific software). > > * IIgs (rom 3), the gs should support most earlier Apple II software, plus > it makes a good bridge to the mac era machines with ADB and localtalk > support. The IIgs also has unique sound abilities, and is really about the > only choice short of emulation to run the later IIgs specific software. And it will also accept any peripheral card made for the Apple II line of computers (as far as I know, I'm sure there are some cards which won't work in a GS). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 16 21:18:09 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone Message-ID: Anyone have a ops & service manual for a Tektronix 545B (old tube type, circe 1965) oscilloscope? A friend of mine in Wyoming has been given one and she wants to learn how to use it. A photcopy is even good. I have some commercial sources but if anyone has ever tried to find a manual you know what vultures the manual vendors can be. Any responses are greatly appreciated. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 16 21:29:24 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wasn';t the plane the Chinese messed up a P-3 ??? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 9:03 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Singer > > > >Last I heard the US Navy had the same P-# Orion simulators up at > Keflavik. > >They did when I was stationed there from 80 to 82 and I was surprised to > >hear that they are still there. > > It would stand to reason though that at least some of them > would remain in use as long as the Orion itself is kept in the active > inventory. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 16 21:38:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone (Russ Blakeman) References: Message-ID: <15067.44188.356548.109298@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 16, Russ Blakeman wrote: > Anyone have a ops & service manual for a Tektronix 545B (old tube type, > circe 1965) oscilloscope? A friend of mine in Wyoming has been given one > and she wants to learn how to use it. A photcopy is even good. I have some > commercial sources but if anyone has ever tried to find a manual you know > what vultures the manual vendors can be. > > Any responses are greatly appreciated. Can't help you with the manual, but tell your friend that she's gonna love it. I've got a 545A that I just adore. It's a wonderful scope. My everyday scopes are Tek 2465A and HP 54111D, but I'll keep my trusty 545A forever. It's a really rock-solid scope. -Dave McGuire From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Apr 16 21:42:27 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer [TaDa!] References: Message-ID: <001101c0c6e8$0a9345b0$1ec7fec7@pcat> > >Last I heard the US Navy had the same P-# Orion simulators up at Keflavik. > >They did when I was stationed there from 80 to 82 and I was surprised to > >hear that they are still there. > > It would stand to reason though that at least some of them > would remain in use as long as the Orion itself is kept in the active > inventory. Here's the last commercial simulator for the Lockheed L-188 (Electra). This is the civilian version of the P-3 Orion. http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/BehindTheScenes/lockheed.html g. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 16 21:47:35 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A variant of it. There are quite a few P-3's in Patuxent River, MD as well as Iceland and other areas. Their main role was as a sub chaser, but they were adapted for other roles as well. Jeff >Wasn';t the plane the Chinese messed up a P-3 ??? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige >> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 9:03 PM >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Subject: RE: Singer >> >> >> >Last I heard the US Navy had the same P-# Orion simulators up at >> Keflavik. >> >They did when I was stationed there from 80 to 82 and I was surprised to >> >hear that they are still there. >> >> It would stand to reason though that at least some of them >> would remain in use as long as the Orion itself is kept in the active >> inventory. >> >> Jeff >> -- >> Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: >> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File >> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 >> -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Apr 16 21:53:09 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: <15067.44188.356548.109298@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Apr 16, 2001 10:38:20 PM Message-ID: <200104170253.UAA10277@calico.litterbox.com> > Can't help you with the manual, but tell your friend that she's gonna > love it. I've got a 545A that I just adore. It's a wonderful scope. > My everyday scopes are Tek 2465A and HP 54111D, but I'll keep my > trusty 545A forever. It's a really rock-solid scope. > > -Dave McGuire On this note, can someone recommend me a good 'scope for a beginner? I'm looking to get into microcontroller programming and robotics and can see a whole bunch of places where a scope is pretty much a necessity. inexpensive is good, and I'm not afraid to use vaccuum tube equipment so long as it doesn't require too too much tweaking to produce useful results. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 16 21:55:32 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Singer [TaDa!] In-Reply-To: Re: Singer [TaDa!] (Gene Buckle) References: <001101c0c6e8$0a9345b0$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: <15067.45220.675797.880649@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 16, Gene Buckle wrote: > Here's the last commercial simulator for the Lockheed L-188 (Electra). This > is the civilian version of the P-3 Orion. > http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/BehindTheScenes/lockheed.html What a great set of pics! -Dave McGuire From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 16 22:06:33 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Micro-Expander disks References: <000201c0c6b2$dc766980$8057ac3e@home98> Message-ID: <3ADBB339.859AF9DF@greenbelt.com> George Parapadakis wrote: > Hello,Back in '82, I used a micro-Expander with a floppy drive. It run > CP/M an we used it for CIS-COBOL programming. If I remeber, the > disk-drive was an Micropolis(???) Does anybody know the details of the > disk format, so that I can read the disks I have? > Micropolis drives used 77 tracks for their drives. Beyond that my > memory is vague. We used to sell them with Sol-20s as Helios disks > were not as reliable. > > Eric > > > > > RegardsGeorge Parapadakis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010416/63c13d81/attachment.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 16 22:07:21 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: Re: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone (Jim Strickland) References: <15067.44188.356548.109298@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200104170253.UAA10277@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <15067.45929.944371.844811@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 16, Jim Strickland wrote: > On this note, can someone recommend me a good 'scope for a beginner? > I'm looking to get into microcontroller programming and robotics and can see > a whole bunch of places where a scope is pretty much a necessity. > > inexpensive is good, and I'm not afraid to use vaccuum tube equipment so > long as it doesn't require too too much tweaking to produce useful results. Tek 465/475 scopes are compact, reliable, predictable, and old enough to be affordable. Those scopes are easily the most popular of that era, sorta the Fluke 77 or Simpson 260 of oscilloscopes. Solid, proven design, easy to use, predictable, smooth, bulletproof. If you have a bigger budget, a Tek 2445 is a *sweet* machine, as are its bigger brothers in the 2465 family. I paid about $1200.00 for my 2465A as a point of reference. But if money is a concern, if you can live without fancy on-screen digital parameter display and stuff like that, a 475 (or 475A) can be had for less than $300.00. There's one on eBay right now, two hours left, at $175.00. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1229127837. -Dave McGuire From dburrows at netpath.net Mon Apr 16 22:00:23 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? Message-ID: <01b101c0c6ea$c01ce560$cf241bce@L166> I am actively involved in the hobby program with Mentec. ( I even managed to drag a couple other members of the list into it) The RT11 release is just waiting for one last update for something that will be on the CD. All of this probably would have been completed over a month ago but I had a major fire that destroyed my office and storage buildings at the end of January. ( You don't even want to know the amount of DEC equipment and docs that were destroyed - over 3000 sq. feet of tightly packed racks and shelves) this ranged from 11/40, 11/04 through 11/93's, M90's, M100's, numerous VAX's up to and including a couple 4705A's. Needless to say this has put me WAY behind financially and with the regular customers I support. I will be announcing it here when it is official but in the meantime please go easy on Mentec. It ends up trickling back to me and I am doing as much as I can, when I can. RSX and RSTS will follow as my time ( and the others involved) permits. Also don't expect them to be willing to put any time or effort into support of hobby users. If you want support then you need to be a real commercial paying $$ customer that pays for the consulting time like many of us here get paid that are consultants. Dan From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 16 22:29:27 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: unix for the Interdata model 70 ??? References: <200104161651.MAA06857@parse.com> <017001c0c6c0$123d4680$3992a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3ADBB897.4685EC98@greenbelt.com> Heinz Wolter wrote: > I recently picked up a nice Interdata model 70. I used to work on a 7/16 in high school. I have docs! Paper tape programs as well. I'd fire up my TTY and dupe you the tapes if you said you had a way to read them. > > Cool architecture, 16/32 bit instructions, fixed and > floating point - the partial manual I have claimed IBM-360-like > instructions. It's a microcoded machine with a "supervisor > call" instruction but no memory managment or address > extension beyond the 16 bit address bus. Yes, absolutely correct. I wrote a few assembly language programs on that system. Little did I know at the time, but it IS an excellent architecture. I've worked on PDPs (in college), but I must say that I am more fond of the Interdata system mostly for nostalgic reasons. The American high schools in Germany in the mid to late 70s ALL had Interdata 7/16s. The Army had a contract C3 corp (now defunct). That was the first machine that I ever spent any serious time on. > > > Does anyone have more info on these beasts - or what happened > to them after Perkin Elmer bought Interdata? There was a nice follow up on exactly that on alt.folklore.computers about six months ago. I saved it on a different system than the one I am on now. I'll post it when I find it. Soon! > > > I've run a google search and came across many mentions of very > early versions on unix being ported to the Interdata. Does anyone > have an OS or heard of an early version of Unix for it? The only two OS's that I was aware of were: BOS (Basic Operating System -nothing to do with BASIC language), and MUE (Multi User Executive). As the names imply, the former was a single user OS, the latter allowed multiple users. The system we had 10 or 12 TTYs (ASR-33) connected to it. MUE was loaded first and then the BASIC interpreter. > > The machine seems to provide native hardware support for TTY > paper and mag tape but I've seem no mention of disks....Unix without > disks running on on 16Kb of 1 microsecond core could be very slow... We eventually got floppies for it, though I don't think they ever worked properly and the TTYs provided THE I/O and hardcopy as well as user inputs. The thing had a wonderful front panel IIRC. I remember toggling in instructions that way when I didn't want to wait to load BOS, the editor and the assembler. The system in Darmstadt had a 20 MB disk system (10 mb fixed w/10 mb removable). The disk system WAS nice! If you could get one of those generic 20 mb units (forget manufacturer -will look up), then your Unix possibility might become a reality. Good luck with it! I'll dig up what I can on it. Regards, Eric > > > Regards, > Heinz Wolter From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 16 22:37:49 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:23 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <004201c0c6cb$38c5ed10$84799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <002201c0c6ef$c680ff40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Well, talking to the folks at Radio Shack, visiting a store, and searching through their catalog (with the aid of the fellow at the store) didn't yield any keypad kits. The part number you posted doesn't fit a Radio Shack part number format according to the guy at RS. That's why I asked for the part number, because, though they have thousands of stores with many employees, they have, collectively, only two grey cells to rub together when it comes to finding something. That's as much as I'm going to do, since (a) I dislike going to Radio Shack (b) I don't have a KIM-1, nor am I likely to get one, and (3) I doubt that Radio Shack will EVER have a keypad that will even with extensive modification be suitable for this application, or, for that matter, anything else of any value, except by the wildest stroke of luck. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've > seen it, > >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads > wouldn't know > >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. > > > Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had > it on > the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that > might > as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to > read a catalog > these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" > mentality > taken over? > > Allison > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Apr 16 22:39:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics References: Message-ID: <003c01c0c6f0$0519c700$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Lots of experience, yes, but expertise . . . well . . . not enough. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 11:01 AM Subject: Re: 50 pin SCSI to 50 pin centronics > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Probably bad advice, resulting in a shooting. > > VERY close guess! > Can we assume from that that you have lots of expertise with serial > interfacing? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 16 22:46:39 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: <3ADBB339.859AF9DF@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > > Micropolis drives used 77 tracks for their drives. Beyond that my > > memory is vague. We used to sell them with Sol-20s as Helios disks > > were not as reliable. Micropolis had 2 major models of their 5.25" drive. One was 48TPI, with 35 tracks (maybe 40), and was essentially interchangeable with the Shugart SA400. It was fairly slow stepping, since it used a helical lead screw. But it was a nice drive for TRS-80. The other was 100 TPI, with 77 tracks, not to be confused with the far more common 96TPi 80 track drives. There is a somewhat rare Tandon TM100-4M drive that can be used as a substitute for the Micropolis. (Some think that the 'M' stands for Micropolis as replacing the Micropolis 100TPI is its only use.) BTW, Micropolis also had their own operating system. I think that it ran on TRS-80. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 16 22:48:59 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: computers I used to sell( was Re: My collection) References: <200104170052.f3H0qHL17721@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <3ADBBD2B.B50C56D@greenbelt.com> I have a list of which computers I have sold. I used to do computer sales while in college. The list: Sol-20 (w/Micropolis drives, Northstar drives, Thinker Toys, others) Commodore PET 2001 exactly 1 Polymorphics 8813 the Apple II floor model (ComputerAge put the shop I worked in out of business) Atari 400/800 HP-85 many different types of HP calculators, especially the 41C Ironically, the only one I own is an Apple II and its a IIe, that would include the calculators. I think the only one I would want is a Sol-20, but with either a Northstar or Micropolis disk system. Eric P.S. I updating my collection list as well: http://www.greenbelt.com/chomko/comp_list.htm From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 16 22:53:56 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: <15067.45929.944371.844811@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: She already has the 545B and wants a manual. She isn't wanting to invest in a new one until she's sure she's going to have an interest in it. I have a 454A and my trusty HP digital storage scaope but I use both professionally. She is new to all of this and the 545B is just for learning. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 10:07 PM > To: Jim Strickland > Cc: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone > > > On April 16, Jim Strickland wrote: > > On this note, can someone recommend me a good 'scope for a beginner? > > I'm looking to get into microcontroller programming and > robotics and can see > > a whole bunch of places where a scope is pretty much a necessity. > > > > inexpensive is good, and I'm not afraid to use vaccuum tube > equipment so > > long as it doesn't require too too much tweaking to produce > useful results. > > Tek 465/475 scopes are compact, reliable, predictable, and old > enough to be affordable. Those scopes are easily the most popular of > that era, sorta the Fluke 77 or Simpson 260 of oscilloscopes. Solid, > proven design, easy to use, predictable, smooth, bulletproof. > > If you have a bigger budget, a Tek 2445 is a *sweet* machine, as are > its bigger brothers in the 2465 family. I paid about $1200.00 for my > 2465A as a point of reference. > > But if money is a concern, if you can live without fancy > on-screen digital > parameter display and stuff like that, a 475 (or 475A) can be had for > less than $300.00. There's one on eBay right now, two hours left, at > $175.00. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1229127837. > > > -Dave McGuire From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 16 22:54:11 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: <15067.44188.356548.109298@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: I have the 454A and HP 54201D and I'm set for good, at least now. By the way I misread your first message where the note of good scopes was to someone else. Ignore my DUH reply. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 9:38 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone > > > On April 16, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Anyone have a ops & service manual for a Tektronix 545B (old tube type, > > circe 1965) oscilloscope? A friend of mine in Wyoming has been > given one > > and she wants to learn how to use it. A photcopy is even good. > I have some > > commercial sources but if anyone has ever tried to find a > manual you know > > what vultures the manual vendors can be. > > > > Any responses are greatly appreciated. > > Can't help you with the manual, but tell your friend that she's gonna > love it. I've got a 545A that I just adore. It's a wonderful scope. > My everyday scopes are Tek 2465A and HP 54111D, but I'll keep my > trusty 545A forever. It's a really rock-solid scope. > > -Dave McGuire From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 16 22:54:16 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Chips and SBCs(Re: Technico (Re: TI Minicomputer?) References: <01Apr16.123654edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <3ADB5BBF.120C0273@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3ADBBE68.7A27E39D@greenbelt.com> Jeff Hellige wrote: > >I have a board by DSI that is a 68020/68882 ISA board that basically runs on > >a PC. > > I believe mine is by DSI as well, though I'd have to check. > A few years ago I asked about it on this list and was pointed towards > it being a cross-development board of some sort. Unfortunately, I > don't have any of the software or manuals for it. I' pretty sure I have both. Let me check. > > > >Is the Apple Z-80 coprocessor boards the so-called "CP/M boards"? > > That's exactly what they are, including the MS Softcard III > for the Apple III. They aren't the same though, which is why they > were mentioned with the 'but' tacked on. I tried to get one on Ebay awhile back but someone scooped me in the last 10 seconds. $@%#^&#* Eric > > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 16 23:00:13 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <01b101c0c6ea$c01ce560$cf241bce@L166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010416205007.02052c00@208.226.86.10> Hi Dan, I am really sorry to hear about the fire. I apologize if I sounded a bit harsh, it is clearly extremely difficult to make a living off these computers we love so much. I was attempting to explain why I felt there would never be a hobbyist program for RT-11 and RSX-11 based on the business case. Now with one of its major supporters also off-line it seems not only a rough business climate but bad luck as well is conspiring against us. At 11:00 PM 4/16/01 -0400, you wrote: >Also don't expect them to be willing to put any time or effort into support >of hobby users. If you want support then you need to be a real commercial >paying $$ customer that pays for the consulting time like many of us here >get paid that are consultants. This was my thought as well. Clearly the needs of hobbyists have to come after the jobs that put food on the table. Given the difficultly of keeping one's head above water supporting these machines these days I just did the math and projected out for the next few years :-( --Chuck From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Apr 16 23:19:14 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Singer [TaDa!] References: <001101c0c6e8$0a9345b0$1ec7fec7@pcat> <15067.45220.675797.880649@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <002901c0c6f5$8fe26540$1ec7fec7@pcat> > On April 16, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Here's the last commercial simulator for the Lockheed L-188 (Electra). This > > is the civilian version of the P-3 Orion. > > http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/BehindTheScenes/lockheed.html > > What a great set of pics! Thanks. I used to work at the place that owned it. The whole time I was there it was never turned on which was a real bummer. I did all my work on the 737 and 727 sims they had so I never even had the opportunity to fly the Electra. g. From steve_moser at parmalat.ca Mon Apr 16 22:24:45 2001 From: steve_moser at parmalat.ca (steve_moser@parmalat.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Rescue a system 36 Message-ID: We have a system 36 #5360, printer 3262-BI and 3 3476 terminals that I would like to get rid of to free up some space. The system was here when I started so I don't know a lot about it, but have found some old documentation. CPU 512K MAG 716MB, it was purchased in June 1986. There is also a bunch of disk and cartridges that I don't have a clue what they are for, but I'm sure anyone interested would know. I am just looking for someone to take it away from our office in Cincinnati, OH. Please e-mail me with any additional questions. Thanks Steve From chugiang at juno.com Tue Apr 17 00:38:54 2001 From: chugiang at juno.com (giang m chu) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System Message-ID: <20010416.223858.-279099.0.chugiang@juno.com> I have a couple 8" floppy disks that. I believe that the system used for these diskettes was Tektronik 8560 System and these OS was Tnix. I want to transfer data from those diskettes to another media. Does anyone know or have any recommendations? Thanks ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Apr 17 00:42:07 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Honeywell Level 6 Stuff Needed Message-ID: Does anyone have anything for this computer? It's sitting in our house collecting dust because I have no software for it, and it doesn't have a programmer's panel. I would at least like the full control panel so I could run machine language programs (assuming I can find out anything about it). Every couple of months I renew my interest in my Honeywell Level 6 minicomputer. Thanks, Owen From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Apr 17 00:46:35 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: RE: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone (Russ Blakeman) References: <15067.44188.356548.109298@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <15067.55483.444521.450550@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 16, Russ Blakeman wrote: > I have the 454A and HP 54201D and I'm set for good, at least now. Ahh, both nice scopes. I've seen many a 454A but never owned one. I did own a 54201D for a long time, though. A great scope! My favorite thing about it was that nice huge CRT. No squinting with that scope! :-) > By the way I misread your first message where the note of good scopes was to > someone else. Ignore my DUH reply. Understood...no biggie... -Dave McGuire From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Apr 17 00:47:14 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: NeXT slabs, In-Reply-To: <3AD1FCFD.3DE3EFA2@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <200104170549.f3H5n6s17660@grover.winsite.com> Hi, Curt. It has come to my attention that there has been some problems with my email host, and a lot of stuff has been bouncing.... If you've been trying to reach me about shipping costs for my little slab of heaven, and it keeps bouncing, use my work address of pbraun@olivellp.com as it seems to be OK. Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Apr 17 00:38:03 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:46:39 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200104170538.f3H5c3L26686@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Micropolis had 2 major models of their 5.25" drive. One was 48TPI, with > 35 tracks (maybe 40), and was essentially interchangeable with the Shugart > SA400. It was fairly slow stepping, since it used a helical lead screw. > But it was a nice drive for TRS-80. > > The other was 100 TPI, with 77 tracks, not to be confused with the far > more common 96TPi 80 track drives. There is a somewhat rare Tandon > TM100-4M drive that can be used as a substitute for the Micropolis. > (Some think that the 'M' stands for Micropolis as replacing the Micropolis > 100TPI is its only use.) Hmm, here I sit looking at one of a pair of Micropolis model 1115-VI. It's a 5.25" full-height drive, serial 0372. Someone (not me) helpfully wrote on it with a marker: 96 TPI 2 SIDED 5 1/4 Date codes on the ICs would seem to place its manufacture sometime in early-mid 1983. Was the someone with the marker perhaps mistaken? Hard to tell from http://www.mfarris.com/know/floppy/floppy2.html -- that doesn't seem to get any more specific than "SD"/"DD"/"QD"/"HD". -Frank McConnell From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 17 01:14:46 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System In-Reply-To: <20010416.223858.-279099.0.chugiang@juno.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, giang m chu wrote: > I have a couple 8" floppy disks that. I believe that the system used for > these diskettes was Tektronik 8560 System and these OS was Tnix. > > I want to transfer data from those diskettes to another media. Does > anyone know or have any recommendations? George, Your best bet is to transfer the data to a PC over a serial port. You'll have to figure out how to open the files from Tnix and send them to a serial port hooked to a PC with a null modem cable. You would then collect them with a program on the other end. This will vary in difficulty based on what the data is (binary or text?) and what kind of programming or file transfer tools Tnix offers you. Please feel free to e-mail me if you need further help. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Tue Apr 17 03:21:17 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) Message-ID: > I have to say that this is one of the most interesting topics that > we have discussed lately and it ereminds me why I actually > joined the list in the first place! Yeah, it's great to see what stuff people have got, I agree! I only joined the list a couple of weeks ago, and don't have anything much of a "collection" as such (just the usual stock of home micros, mostly stuff I got from new and never had the heart - thankfully - to throw out when they stopped being used) - Sinclair, Acorn, Commodore etc. Probably the only "interesting" one in the lot is an OU Hektor1 (someone else just posted about one of these 8085 boards). I'm in Bath (UK), and so far haven't found a decent source of old machines in the area - computer scrap/surplus dealers seem a bit thin on the ground. > Another thing I would find interesting is/are lists of what people are looking for.. I'm interested in older workstations (mainly stuff I've worked on in the past) and am always on the lookout for spares/complete systems/manuals/software etc - basically anything :-) Of most interest are: Xerox Alto (fat chance of finding one in the UK though!), Xerox 860, Xerox D-machines (8010, 6085, 1186 etc) Sun 3/60 Sun 4/110 Sun SPARCstation IPC HP9000 (725? can't remember the model number now) ICP/3RCC PERQ Cheers Al From kevan at heydon.org Tue Apr 17 05:51:27 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > And in the UK version IIRC. The version I remember had a PCB with the > SC/MP (the origial PMOS version) and IIRC the crystal on it, linked by > ribbon cables (with individual socket contacts on each wire -- no IDC > connectors :-() to another board with the memory and DIP switches, etc > on it. Correct, I happened to stumble into the article that is spread between two issues this weekend while sorting piles of paper into more logically grouped piles of paper. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Apr 17 03:07:14 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:49:49 +0200." <003301c0c6b6$c78c92c0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <200104170807.JAA16646@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Sipke de Wal" > > > The Dutch Elektuur magazine (Elektor) devoted a lot of space 24 years ago > to a build-it-yourself SC/MP system. The firstversion came with dip-switches to > toggle in binary data into 256bytes of RAM. > > Fiddeling with a few other switches would lead to running programs and > getting output via 8 LEDs. I built one like that...before I got a Sinclair Mk14. I'd try your emulator but I don't have Windows ;-) I always liked the SC/MP - it was easy to write position independent code and allowed me to do a Cassette Operating System which allowed multiple resident programs - all in 1-point-somethink K! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 17 07:04:33 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Collection list (just for phun) In-Reply-To: from "Alan Pearson" at Apr 17, 01 09:21:17 am Message-ID: <200104171204.IAA13017@wordstock.com> > > Yeah, it's great to see what stuff people have got, I agree! > I only joined the list a couple of weeks ago, and don't have > anything much of a "collection" as such (just the usual stock > of home micros, mostly stuff I got from new and never had the > heart - thankfully - to throw out when they stopped being used) - > Sinclair, Acorn, Commodore etc. Probably the only "interesting" > one in the lot is an OU Hektor1 (someone else just posted about > one of these 8085 boards). I'm in Bath (UK), and so far haven't > found a decent source of old machines in the area - computer > scrap/surplus dealers seem a bit thin on the ground. > But you live in a beautiful town!! My wife and I visited Bath for a day in November 1999. The Roman baths are an engineering feat! And the Sally Lunn buns were very good, but I didn't care for the clotted cream... Cheers! Bryan From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 17 07:48:43 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <383621158.987511723152.JavaMail.root@web623-wrb.mail.com> It's in the RSU catalog. It's on the wall in nashua as part of a chassis box. I don't claim any genius but, it still amazes me that I can find something so trivial with zero effort. IF ALL ELSE FAILS TRY THE DIGIKEY OR NEWARK CATALOGS. Sure they are pricy but they do have it. Keypads are still used widely for many applications, where is the difficulty? Allison ------Original Message------ From: "Richard Erlacher" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 17, 2001 3:37:49 AM GMT Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads Well, talking to the folks at Radio Shack, visiting a store, and searching through their catalog (with the aid of the fellow at the store) didn't yield any keypad kits. The part number you posted doesn't fit a Radio Shack part number format according to the guy at RS. That's why I asked for the part number, because, though they have thousands of stores with many employees, they have, collectively, only two grey cells to rub together when it comes to finding something. That's as much as I'm going to do, since (a) I dislike going to Radio Shack (b) I don't have a KIM-1, nor am I likely to get one, and (3) I doubt that Radio Shack will EVER have a keypad that will even with extensive modification be suitable for this application, or, for that matter, anything else of any value, except by the wildest stroke of luck. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've > seen it, > >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads > wouldn't know > >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. > > > Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had > it on > the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that > might > as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to > read a catalog > these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" > mentality > taken over? > > Allison > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 17 09:08:36 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010416145658.02891708@208.226.86.10> References: <3ADB66E0.40526915@idirect.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010417090110.01f11bc0@pc> At 03:09 PM 4/16/01 -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: >Whenever something related to RT-11, RSX-11, or PDP-11s happens visibly, the lawyer will fire off a letter threatening suit and that activity will stop (or perhaps generate a bit of revenue). I know a couple of corporations that have made it to this state and unfortunately there is no way to "fix" them, except by paying said lawyer an immense amount of money and then releasing the intellectual property yourself. That's where the UCSD p-System is today. UCSD made a number of non-exclusive licenses to companies over the years, but almost all of them have disappeared or this asset has been disregarded. One, Cabot in the UK, http://www.cabot.co.uk/ has a p-System-based approach for set-top boxes that they introduced when Java hit the scene. They were pitching the p-System's p-codes as an alternative to Java. On a more classic note, I just received an e-mail from a guy who says that every Lenscrafter store runs an RS/6000 with a p-System app derived from an Apple IIe app he wrote back in 1987, but it will soon be replaced with a Delphi equivalent on PCs. - John From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Apr 17 09:18:51 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4105 terminal Message-ID: <3ADC50CB.99F56B7D@greenbelt.com> It has a whole mess of EPROMs on the backside of the monitor part. I didn't look close enough to see what type of CPU it has. Anyone know anything about it? Eric From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Apr 17 09:29:58 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? References: <01b101c0c6ea$c01ce560$cf241bce@L166> Message-ID: <3ADC5366.F2914C34@idirect.com> >Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > I am actively involved in the hobby program with Mentec. ( I even managed > to drag a couple other members of the list into it) The RT11 release is > just waiting for one last update for something that will be on the CD. All > of this probably would have been completed over a month ago but I had a > major fire that destroyed my office and storage buildings at the end of > January. ( You don't even want to know the amount of DEC equipment and docs > that were destroyed - over 3000 sq. feet of tightly packed racks and > shelves) this ranged from 11/40, 11/04 through 11/93's, M90's, M100's, > numerous VAX's up to and including a couple 4705A's. > Needless to say this has put me WAY behind financially and with the regular > customers I support. Jerome Fine replies: I am sad to hear about this, especially for you personally as well as for the business loss. Is there any hardware that you need but now can't get? Are there any RT-11 problems that I could help with? Sorry - I would not be of any help with RSX/RSTS/VMS. Can you at least describe the overall probable contents of the CD and also tell us if the contents are based on availability or because Mentec did not want the omitted distributions on the CD? Namely, if the omitted items became "available", could they be included? While the actual distribution versions would be the best indication, a simple statement that there will be RT-11 distributions would help as well. And are the layered products being considered like FORTRAN and BASIC? Also, will the CD be set up as Tim Shoppa set up the RT-11 Freeware CD with DOS/W95/W98 files at the beginning and RT-11 partitions with duplicates at the end? Or all DOS or all RT-11. Note that for DOS, the first 64 blocks of partition zero in RT-11 are not available with the raw SCSI media. With the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim Shoppa, this is not a problem, but could be if ONLY RT-11 partitions are on the CD. For example, PUTR from John Wilson probably can't read the first 64 blocks of partition zero under DOS if it had been an RT-11 partition. Note that there are a number of ways around this problem under DOS, but they are unnecessary if RT-11 partition zero is devoted to DOS files. > I will be announcing it here when it is official but in the meantime please > go easy on Mentec. It ends up trickling back to me and I am doing as much > as I can, when I can. > RSX and RSTS will follow as my time ( and the others involved) permits. Hopefully, this was not the trickle situation and these posts on classiccmp are the best way and do not involve Mentec in any manner. Can you use any help? Have you a new target date at this point? Any information would be helpful since probably most of us were not aware it was even being considered. In fact, can you take a few minutes and describe what is being considered? I would certainly be willing to help with anything that I could do at my end. I have both real PDP-11 Qbus hardware available with a SCSI host adapter with both SCSI hard drives and Sony SMO S501 magneto optical drives and a number of 5 1/4" disks which hold about 295 MBytes per side (about 8.75 RT-11 partitions). I also have available a PC which can run RT-11 under the Supnik emulator along with PUTR from John Wilson. If you want to talk by phone on Sunday when rates are less expensive, send me you number and I will call you. That applies to anyone else as well. > Also don't expect them to be willing to put any time or effort into support > of hobby users. If you want support then you need to be a real commercial > paying $$ customer that pays for the consulting time like many of us here > get paid that are consultants. By definition, this is obvious. But I agree that some hobby users do not understand the situation, so it needs to be made very explicit. On the other hand, most of the time, there is help available from this list for the hobby users that need it. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 17 09:54:34 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <383621158.987511723152.JavaMail.root@web623-wrb.mail.com> Message-ID: <000901c0c74e$50f84bc0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You've missed the point, Allison ... There are dimensional requirements that have to be met if the keypad is to fit as a replacement for the KIM-1 keypad. It must physically fit, and it must have the same scanning matrix. Now, I haven't seen the chassis box to which you refer, but I'd bet that RS doesn't sell the keypad by itself, nor do I believe that the keypad is dimensionally suitable. If one is interested in an external keypad, there are LOTS of options, and there's certainly no need to consider the sort of rubbish sold at RS. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp me" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:48 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > It's in the RSU catalog. > It's on the wall in nashua as part of a chassis box. > > I don't claim any genius but, it still amazes me that I can find something so trivial with zero effort. IF ALL ELSE FAILS TRY THE DIGIKEY OR NEWARK CATALOGS. Sure they are pricy but they do have it. Keypads are still used widely for many applications, > where is the difficulty? > > Allison > > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 17, 2001 3:37:49 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > Well, talking to the folks at Radio Shack, visiting a store, and searching > through their catalog (with the aid of the fellow at the store) didn't yield any > keypad kits. The part number you posted doesn't fit a Radio Shack part number > format according to the guy at RS. That's why I asked for the part number, > because, though they have thousands of stores with many employees, they have, > collectively, only two grey cells to rub together when it comes to finding > something. That's as much as I'm going to do, since (a) I dislike going to > Radio Shack (b) I don't have a KIM-1, nor am I likely to get one, and (3) I > doubt that Radio Shack will EVER have a keypad that will even with extensive > modification be suitable for this application, or, for that matter, anything > else of any value, except by the wildest stroke of luck. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ajp166" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > > > > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've > > seen it, > > >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads > > wouldn't know > > >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. > > > > > > Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had > > it on > > the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that > > might > > as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to > > read a catalog > > these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" > > mentality > > taken over? > > > > Allison > > > > > > > From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Apr 17 09:59:44 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Interdata history Message-ID: <3ADC5A60.F54036C2@greenbelt.com> Pulled off alt.foklore.computers: Interdata History - From: Will Jennings Fri Jun 9 14:42:19 2000 Subject: Interdata, Perkin-Elmer, et al. OK, a brief history of Interdata, etc.; Interdata was founded in about 1967 in Oceanport, NJ, and the majority of the funding was put up by the local jockey club because they wanted to grow Oceanport into a more high-tech area. This would later cause them some problems, i.e. I heard a story about how AT&T was going to buy a large quantity of Interdata machines, then looked into the background of the company, saw that the Oceanport Jockey Club was the main stockholder, and cancelled the deal. Afterwards, they redistributed the stock so that say John Doe was a stockholder, and he just *happened* to belong to the jockey club (told to me by a former Interdata employee). Anyway, the Interdata machines use the IBM S/360 instruction set, and most programs written in S/360 assembler will run unmodified on an Interdata, provided that they don't use floating point (S/360 floating point is ODD!), and are not dependent on a certain IBM device being present, i.e. a program that had routines specifically for use with a 7320 in it would not work. The assembler is even called CAL (Common Assembly Language) whereas the S/360 assembler is called BAL (Basic Assembly Language). Interdata also used the weird IBm terms, i.e. SELCH, MUX, IPL, MTM, etc. In fact, on the later machines, the racks are even IBM blue. I could talk about all the Interdata models but I don't want to flood the list, so I'll keep it to their most significant model, the 7/32. The 7/32 was the world's first 32-bit minicomputer, introduced in 1973. The 7/32 is also significant in that it has a cycle of either 750 or 1000ns, depending on the core, and it can have up to one megabyte of memory. Not to mention the fact that it has a full display panel, which is even more impressive with the hexidecimal option. Anyway, Perkin-Elmer bought Interdata in about 1975, and continued to market and develop the products but with the P-E name on them. The first machine that P-E sold without it being a rebadged Interdata was the 3220 (1978), which looks a lot like the 30xx series of machines from IBM. The 3200 series machines are backward compatible with the two Interdata 32 bit machines, the 7/32 and 8/32. In 1979, P-E released the 3210, which is twice as fast as a VAX 11/780, and it fits in a normal size rack instead of a massive unwieldy thing. In 1985, P-E spun off the computer division as Concurrent Computer Corporation, who is still in business (http://www.ccur.com). Concurrent also bought Masscomp in about 1989 or so, and still makes machines based around Masscomp's RTU operating system. All of the Interdata/P- E/Concurrent hardware is specifically designed for real-time applications, and as such, is less well-known then companies like DEC who made general-purpose machines. If anyone is interested, I'll make an Interdate/P-E/Concurrent web page. I personally own 2 Interdata 7/32's, 2 P-E 3203's, a P-E 3205, and 3 P-E 3210's. I wouldn't mind more either... or a Masscomp.. heh Will J (From: Will Jennings ) From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 17 10:27:20 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: unix for the Interdata model 70 ??? Message-ID: Don't forget OS/16... I could get OS/16... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Apr 17 10:33:59 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4105 terminal In-Reply-To: <3ADC50CB.99F56B7D@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010417083359.007c11f0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> It's a colour graphics (not just text) terminal. I would liken it to a colour plotter when in graphics mode, because I think it was a vector display. You'll need the Tektronix keyboard for it to work properly. In graphics mode I think my 4010 addresses 1024x1024 points. Edwin At 10:18 AM 4/17/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > >It has a whole mess of EPROMs on the backside of the monitor part. >I didn't look close enough to see what type of CPU it has. > >Anyone know anything about it? > >Eric > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 17 11:17:09 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: <200104170538.f3H5c3L26686@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 16 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > > Micropolis had 2 major models of their 5.25" drive. One was 48TPI,... > > The other was 100 TPI, with 77 tracks, not to be confused with the far > Hmm, here I sit looking at one of a pair of Micropolis model 1115-VI. > It's a 5.25" full-height drive, serial 0372. Someone (not me) helpfully > wrote on it with a marker: > 96 TPI > 2 SIDED > 5 1/4 > Date codes on the ICs would seem to place its manufacture sometime > in early-mid 1983. > Was the someone with the marker perhaps mistaken? > Hard to tell from http://www.mfarris.com/know/floppy/floppy2.html -- > that doesn't seem to get any more specific than "SD"/"DD"/"QD"/"HD". They might be right. I had heard that Micropolis came out later with a 96TPI, but I've never seen it. The date code and the double sided is consistent with that. Is it really 2 sided? What kind of door assembly does it have? But they might be mistaken, and have ASSUMED 96TPI due to it not being 48TPI, and/or having about 80 tracks. I've even seen people label 720K 5.25" drives as being 1/2M, "because it's NOT a 360K". Unfortunately, I no longer have my files of sales literature and spec sheets, that would have at least let us compare that model number with known older ones. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From jss at ou.edu Tue Apr 17 11:33:32 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Interdata history In-Reply-To: <3ADC5A60.F54036C2@greenbelt.com> References: <3ADC5A60.F54036C2@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <987525212.3adc705c07529@email.ou.edu> Quoting Eric Chomko : > If anyone is interested, I'll make an Interdate/P-E/Concurrent > web page. Yes, please. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 17 12:10:30 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville References: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <002b01c0c761$4ef35960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> >> >>Price: $6/ea. >Actually 3Com isn't looking like much help, ie do we sell them "now", >otherwise never heard of it. Link above is for the 6 foot RJ45 patch cable, >not the dongle. ;( Hate to drag this on, but those cards are pretty durned useful. I got my order last Thursday. Each cordlet was in its own baggie and box, labelled "3C-PC-TPS-CBL". The items were RJ45 connectors, followed by 3" of cord, followed by the card connector, 15cm overall. other way of getting there: http://www.3com.com/index2.html Products & Services > Products > PC cards > Cabling Products & Power Adaptors > PC card cables John A. no, I don't work for them ;) From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Apr 17 12:13:30 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:17:09 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200104171713.f3HHDUD46386@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > On 16 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > > Hmm, here I sit looking at one of a pair of Micropolis model 1115-VI. > > It's a 5.25" full-height drive, serial 0372. Someone (not me) helpfully > > wrote on it with a marker: > They might be right. I had heard that Micropolis came out later with a > 96TPI, but I've never seen it. The date code and the double sided is > consistent with that. Is it really 2 sided? What kind of door assembly > does it have? Looking at it from the front, it looks like a typical full-height Tandon as seen in an IBM PC or Shugart drive. Flat door, closes down over center of slot. A printed-circuit board covers the top of the drive. I think there are two sets of head leads that disappear into the interior. The door, when closed, has a flange that pokes through a slot in the board to interrupt an optical emitter/sensor pair. What's funny is that the top hub appears to be fixed. The bottom hub is mounted to a sort of sub-frame that pretty much covers the bottom of the drive, and it pivots (drive shaft, drive motor and all) about the middle of the outer frame as you close the door. Of course, this makes looking into the interior of the drive more fun than usual, because it's completely surrounded by stuff. > But they might be mistaken, and have ASSUMED 96TPI due to it not being > 48TPI, and/or having about 80 tracks. I've even seen people label 720K > 5.25" drives as being 1/2M, "because it's NOT a 360K". Yep, that is what you got me thinking. -Frank McConnell From JOHN.M.CHU at saic.com Tue Apr 17 12:36:53 2001 From: JOHN.M.CHU at saic.com (CHU, JOHN M.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8501 Data Management Unit Message-ID: I have a couple of 8" floppy disks. I believe that at that time they used 8560 Tektronix system with Tnix OS for these floppies. Now I want to transfer data from those floppy disks to different media. It is hard to find a service that does the data conversion from those floppies. Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks for a million times From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Apr 17 12:40:45 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (nerdware@laidbak.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Dr. Dobb's from 82 & 83 Message-ID: <3ADC39CD.14352.5A74722@localhost> Hi, gang. I have 8 issues of Dr. Dobb's from 82 & 83. I tried 'em on ebay, but the response was underwhelming both times I listed them. So, I'm offering them to the first person who wants them and is willing to pay postage. Let me know. Thanks! Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware@laidbak.com From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Apr 17 13:03:46 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator References: <200104170807.JAA16646@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <001b01c0c768$bffc8ee0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Hi Stan, If you use Linux you could try WINE ...... I would be curious if that would work ...... Sipke de Wal --------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Barr To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: Re: SC/MP Elektor Emulator > Hi, > > "Sipke de Wal" > > > > > > The Dutch Elektuur magazine (Elektor) devoted a lot of space 24 years ago > > to a build-it-yourself SC/MP system. The firstversion came with dip-switches to > > toggle in binary data into 256bytes of RAM. > > > > Fiddeling with a few other switches would lead to running programs and > > getting output via 8 LEDs. > > I built one like that...before I got a Sinclair Mk14. > > I'd try your emulator but I don't have Windows ;-) > > I always liked the SC/MP - it was easy to write position independent code > and allowed me to do a Cassette Operating System which allowed multiple > resident programs - all in 1-point-somethink K! > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 17 13:49:24 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System In-Reply-To: <20010416.223858.-279099.0.chugiang@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010417134924.25cfcb80@mailhost.intellistar.net> I have access to a couple of 8560s but I'm fairly certain that there are no drives of any kind on them. Were the drives optional???? Are those hard sectored disks? All of the 8" floppy disks that I've seen for the Tektronix are. That's going to make it harder to find something that will read them. Joe At 10:38 PM 4/16/01 -0700, you wrote: >I have a couple 8" floppy disks that. I believe that the system used for >these diskettes was Tektronik 8560 System and these OS was Tnix. > >I want to transfer data from those diskettes to another media. Does >anyone know or have any recommendations? > >Thanks >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 17 12:53:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: <200104170253.UAA10277@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Apr 16, 1 08:53:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1334 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010417/5e96608a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 17 12:57:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 16, 1 08:46:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010417/f6b9dcf7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 17 13:02:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System In-Reply-To: <20010416.223858.-279099.0.chugiang@juno.com> from "giang m chu" at Apr 16, 1 10:38:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 484 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010417/d9e6992d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 17 12:47:36 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Apr 16, 1 09:18:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 784 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010417/34e28a3a/attachment.ksh From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Apr 17 13:24:53 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel & Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: My Collection Message-ID: <037e01c0c76c$9f0871a0$fdf1fea9@marianca> -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Fine To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:18 PM Subject: Re: My Collection >>Marian Capel wrote: > >> PDP8/F with TU56 and DSD440 >> PDP8/A with TU56 and RL01 >> VT100, hacked about to contain an 11/23, with external ST412, runs RX11. >> Anybody has some RT11 manuals available. >> Jos Dreesen > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Interesting collection. I had not realized that DSD made a controller for the >PDP8, just for the PDP-11. Also I am really surprised that DEC made >an RL01 controller for the PDP8. As someone else mentioned: the RL01 only fits to the 8/A. The DSD440 controller for omnibus will have to be made from the schematics in the manuals..... Luckily i have an omnibus experimental board. But currently the DSD fails it's selftest... > >AS for your VT100, it sounds like you might have a VT103 which was a standard >DEC product. Does it use a dual 11/23 but have added a 3rd party MFM controller >with its own boot ROM or are you using a quad 11/23 and an RQDX1? > The system is definitly a hacked VT100 : it contains an M8186 ( dual 11/23?) a RQXD1, (with a possible custom boot prom), a M8044 32 KMOS memory board , itself hacked to contain 256K,a M8043, a third party NC550 programmable clock and a DSD440 controller card. The system boots of the ST412 into RT11. The system is in a very hobbyist state... Of course the VT100 also contains a second powersupply. >Also, I am not surprised, but no one seems to consider software as part >of their collection It certainly is, but how often does a system you've pulled from the dumpster contains a matching suite of software ? Jos Dreesen > From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Apr 17 12:43:56 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator Message-ID: <037d01c0c76c$9e376600$fdf1fea9@marianca> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 12:25 AM Subject: Re: SC/MP Elektor Emulator >> >> Sipke de Wal wrote: >> >> > The Dutch Elektuur magazine (Elektor) devoted a lot of space 24 years ago >> > to a build-it-yourself SC/MP system. The firstversion came with dip-switches to >> > toggle in binary data into 256bytes of RAM. >> >> Was in the german version of elektor too. >> scampi ;-) > >And in the UK version IIRC. The version I remember had a PCB with the >SC/MP (the origial PMOS version) and IIRC the crystal on it, linked by >ribbon cables (with individual socket contacts on each wire -- no IDC >connectors :-() to another board with the memory and DIP switches, etc on it. > But does anyone remembers the computer Elektuur published before that, in 1974 ? It was a TTL based computer with a choice of memory : extremly expensive 2102's or moderate priced CCD's (bit bucket's) that offered serial access only ( i.e. a solidstate "magnetic drum") I really would like to see the articles again, but am unable to get my hands on such old issues of Elektuur. Jos Dreesen From alinder at ProgressLighting.com Tue Apr 17 13:42:41 2001 From: alinder at ProgressLighting.com (Arnie Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: SCSI CD-ROM Message-ID: Hi All, Many thanks to Joe for supplying me with a keyboard and mouse for my HP Apollo. Works great. It did allow me to boot up and provided me with some functionality but the OS is corrupt. Now I'm in the market for an external chassis or external SCSI CD-ROM that would allow me to reload an operating system. I wish there was a DRMO or disposal site close to me, but I happen to live in one of those places where used computer parts are scarce and if you can find them you have to pay $$$$$$$. I thought ebay was bad. Any help would be appreciated. Arnie From aeb56 at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 17 13:57:20 2001 From: aeb56 at bigfoot.com (Alice Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: She got one today, photocopy through Manuals Plus (the plus is what they add to the price). Gotta have it I guess and she got the scope for free so I guess she feels it's worthwhile to go for the manual. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 12:48 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone > > > > > > Anyone have a ops & service manual for a Tektronix 545B (old tube type, > > For the Tekky 500 series it's one manual called the 'Instruction Manual'. > It contains operating instructions, circuit descriptions, schematics, > parts lists, alignment, and so on. > > > circe 1965) oscilloscope? A friend of mine in Wyoming has been > given one > > and she wants to learn how to use it. A photcopy is even good. > I have some > > I don't have the 545B manual, but I do have the 555 scope + manual > (basically a double-beam 545) here. I can probably explain any controls > that are not totally obvious, for example. > > > commercial sources but if anyone has ever tried to find a > manual you know > > what vultures the manual vendors can be. > > Well, the 555 manual at least is quite a thick book.... > > -tony From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 17 13:57:15 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The 454A I have works well for old electronics through computer/digital equipment for me and where it leaves off my HP 54201D picks up well. I do wish sometimes that the 454A had the capability of rerun like the HP does. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 12:54 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for Tek 545B manual for someone > > > > On this note, can someone recommend me a good 'scope for a beginner? > > I'm looking to get into microcontroller programming and > robotics and can see > > a whole bunch of places where a scope is pretty much a necessity. > > > For digital work, I find a logic analyser a lot more use than a 'scope. > On the other hand, a 'scope is essential as well -- if only for looking > at motor drive waveforms, supply noise, and so on. > > > > inexpensive is good, and I'm not afraid to use vaccuum tube > equipment so > > long as it doesn't require too too much tweaking to produce > useful results. > > Tektronix, period. If you don't mind it being large and valved, consider > the 500 series. They do need setting up from time to time, but I find > them to be pretty stable once set up. And the valves don't fail that > often. These 'scopes are excellent, but they're large, and heavy, so they > tend to be pretty cheap second-hand. > > If you can afford a couple of hundred dollars, you might get a 465 or a > 475. They're transistorised (mostly) and quite portable. Not as versatile > as the 500 series, but they have all the features you're likely to need. > > More modern Tektronix are good, too. I've not used them, so I can't > comment on particular models. > > HP have made some good 'scopes too, but IMHO they're not generally as > good as the Tektronix ones. > > -tony > > From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Apr 17 14:07:08 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator References: <037d01c0c76c$9e376600$fdf1fea9@marianca> Message-ID: <002f01c0c771$9a7a1da0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I remember this project, I think it was in 1974. A TTL only rather oddball system. I may even have (part of) the Elektors that describe it but then...... I have about 25 years of issues and they are not really very well sorted. If I ever come accross them, I will scan the articles, put it up my site and give notice to the list. Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Marian Capel To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: Re: SC/MP Elektor Emulator > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Duell > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: SC/MP Elektor Emulator > > > >> > >> Sipke de Wal wrote: > >> > >> > The Dutch Elektuur magazine (Elektor) devoted a lot of space 24 years > ago > >> > to a build-it-yourself SC/MP system. The firstversion came with > dip-switches to > >> > toggle in binary data into 256bytes of RAM. > >> > >> Was in the german version of elektor too. > >> scampi ;-) > > > >And in the UK version IIRC. The version I remember had a PCB with the > >SC/MP (the origial PMOS version) and IIRC the crystal on it, linked by > >ribbon cables (with individual socket contacts on each wire -- no IDC > >connectors :-() to another board with the memory and DIP switches, etc on > it. > > > > But does anyone remembers the computer Elektuur published before that, in > 1974 ? > It was a TTL based computer with a choice of memory : extremly expensive > 2102's or > moderate priced CCD's (bit bucket's) that offered serial access only ( i.e. > a solidstate "magnetic drum") > I really would like to see the articles again, but am unable to get my hands > on such old issues of Elektuur. > > > Jos Dreesen > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 17 14:26:46 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Looking for Dongleville In-Reply-To: <002b01c0c761$4ef35960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <200104051308.f35D8gH06600@bg-tc-ppp1521.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >>>>>purchase&tab=cat&selcat=Cabling%20Products> >>> >>>Price: $6/ea. > >>Actually 3Com isn't looking like much help, ie do we sell them "now", >>otherwise never heard of it. Link above is for the 6 foot RJ45 patch cable, >>not the dongle. ;( > >Hate to drag this on, but those cards are pretty durned useful. >I got my order last Thursday. Each cordlet was in its own baggie >and box, labelled "3C-PC-TPS-CBL". The items were RJ45 >connectors, followed by 3" of cord, followed by the card >connector, 15cm overall. Most web sites are buried in graphics, and here where some kind of picture would have helped so much, nothing. You have them, so you must be right, but the site description had me convinced otherwise. This just didn't sound right. 3Com? Megahertz? 10 Mbps LAN PC Card with XJACK? Connector Product # 3CXE589ET Thanks. From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Apr 17 14:26:02 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Interdata history References: <3ADC5A60.F54036C2@greenbelt.com> <987525212.3adc705c07529@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3ADC98CA.276EF372@greenbelt.com> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Quoting Eric Chomko : > > If anyone is interested, I'll make an Interdate/P-E/Concurrent > > web page. > > Yes, please. > Jeff, Please reread the previous 'Interdata History' post. I posted it based upon a message pulled off a.f.c. I quoted someone else *Will Jennings".\ Eric > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 17 14:58:00 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On 16 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > > > Micropolis had 2 major models of their 5.25" drive. One was 48TPI,... > > > The other was 100 TPI, with 77 tracks, not to be confused with the far > > > Hmm, here I sit looking at one of a pair of Micropolis model 1115-VI. > > It's a 5.25" full-height drive, serial 0372. Someone (not me) helpfully > > wrote on it with a marker: > > 96 TPI > > 2 SIDED > > 5 1/4 > > Date codes on the ICs would seem to place its manufacture sometime > > in early-mid 1983. > > Was the someone with the marker perhaps mistaken? > > Hard to tell from http://www.mfarris.com/know/floppy/floppy2.html -- > > that doesn't seem to get any more specific than "SD"/"DD"/"QD"/"HD". > > They might be right. I had heard that Micropolis came out later with a > 96TPI, but I've never seen it. The date code and the double sided is > consistent with that. Is it really 2 sided? What kind of door assembly > does it have? Fred, looking at the listing in the Pocket PCRef which shows a Micropolis 1115-6 vice 1115-VI. Unfortunately, however, it characterizes it as 720K DSQD which does not clarify a darn thing! - don > But they might be mistaken, and have ASSUMED 96TPI due to it not being > 48TPI, and/or having about 80 tracks. I've even seen people label 720K > 5.25" drives as being 1/2M, "because it's NOT a 360K". > > Unfortunately, I no longer have my files of sales literature and spec > sheets, that would have at least let us compare that model number with > known older ones. > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > > From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 17 15:02:40 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: <200104171713.f3HHDUD46386@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 17 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On 16 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > > > Hmm, here I sit looking at one of a pair of Micropolis model 1115-VI. > > > It's a 5.25" full-height drive, serial 0372. Someone (not me) helpfully > > > wrote on it with a marker: > > > They might be right. I had heard that Micropolis came out later with a > > 96TPI, but I've never seen it. The date code and the double sided is > > consistent with that. Is it really 2 sided? What kind of door assembly > > does it have? > > Looking at it from the front, it looks like a typical full-height > Tandon as seen in an IBM PC or Shugart drive. Flat door, closes down > over center of slot. A printed-circuit board covers the top of the > drive. I think there are two sets of head leads that disappear into > the interior. The door, when closed, has a flange that pokes through > a slot in the board to interrupt an optical emitter/sensor pair. I have two 100 tpi drives, a Tandon with an inoperable head and a Micropolis (I think - machine dismantling required to check). Both of these drives carry a sticker on the bottom edge of the door that identify them as 100 tpi. Of course, such stickers are notorious for falling off also! - don > What's funny is that the top hub appears to be fixed. The bottom hub is > mounted to a sort of sub-frame that pretty much covers the bottom of > the drive, and it pivots (drive shaft, drive motor and all) about the > middle of the outer frame as you close the door. > > Of course, this makes looking into the interior of the drive more fun > than usual, because it's completely surrounded by stuff. > > > But they might be mistaken, and have ASSUMED 96TPI due to it not being > > 48TPI, and/or having about 80 tracks. I've even seen people label 720K > > 5.25" drives as being 1/2M, "because it's NOT a 360K". > > Yep, that is what you got me thinking. > > -Frank McConnell > From emu at ecubics.com Tue Apr 17 15:28:58 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator References: <037d01c0c76c$9e376600$fdf1fea9@marianca> <002f01c0c771$9a7a1da0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <3ADCA78A.987F4409@ecubics.com> Sipke de Wal wrote: > > I remember this project, I think it was in 1974. A TTL only > rather oddball system. > > I may even have (part of) the Elektors that describe it > but then...... I have about 25 years of issues and they are not > really very well sorted. If I ever come accross them, I will > scan the articles, put it up my site and give notice to the > list. That would be great. I'm looking for that one for a long time ... cheers From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 17 13:29:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010417134924.25cfcb80@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 17, 1 01:49:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 751 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010417/23b98062/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 17 15:44:17 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator In-Reply-To: <037d01c0c76c$9e376600$fdf1fea9@marianca> from "Marian Capel" at Apr 17, 1 07:43:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1132 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010417/0d1e9c7f/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Apr 17 16:14:13 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator References: Message-ID: <005d01c0c783$5aa24100$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I've promised someone at Elektor a notice when the SC/MP Emulator was ready, so I can also ask the a reprint of this TTL-system and posibly even get the permission to put it up on my site. Or ask them to put it up themself ;=) By the way ....... I know the url of the dutch Elektor site: http://www.elektuur.nl (but don't know if they have versions of their site for other languages ) If it wasn't for the existance of this great Electronics magazine I would never have ended up way deep into computers. I learned a lot from them so credit is due! Sipke de Wal ---------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:44 PM Subject: Re: SC/MP Elektor Emulator > > But does anyone remembers the computer Elektuur published before that, in > > 1974 ? > > I don't think there was a UK version of Elektor back then, was there? If > there was, I never saw it :-(. > > That computer sounds like fun, though. There have been very few 'build > your own CPU' projects in maagazines, unfortunately... > > What I do remember, (and have all the articles for) is the (UK) Practical > Electronics Digi-Cal project, from 1972. This was a 4 function desktop > calculator built from (mostly) TTL. IIRC, the registers, adder, > multiplication counter, etc were on plug-in cards and there was a large > piece of stripboard in the bottom of the machine for a diode-matrix > control store. So although it wasn't a computer (not user-programmable), > it came close IMHO. > > It's one of those things I've always wanted to build, but getting all the > chips would be very expensive, and I think I could probably build a small > general purpose CPU with the same parts (which would probably be more > fun). Oh, if anyone suggests using the 4-letter F-word [1], I will LART them. > > [1] FPGA, of course. Why, what did you think I meant? :-) > > -tony > From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Apr 17 16:46:53 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Cheap MicroFiche scanner In-Reply-To: <200104110407.VAA10012@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Take a look at: http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/columns/extra/2080.asp This guy was less than impressed with it. I also haven't seen any specs on DPI or page size for the device. It looks to be a step in the right direction though :) clint On Tue, 10 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the "Image Mouse"? The price looks to start > at $2500, and will scan a "page" in less than a second! It sound like it > would be fairly easy to scan in a page or two of fiche when needed with one > of these! > > Zane > > > >http://www.zytrondfw.com/imagemouse/imagemouse.html > > > > > >http://www.eyecom.com/MousePlus.html > > > > > >http://infographix.com/Microfilm_Scanner-image-mouse.htm > > > > > >http://www.librarystoreltd.com/imagemouse2.shtml > > > > > >http://www.microequip.com/newprod.htm > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 17 17:15:26 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: <200104171713.f3HHDUD46386@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: The early Micropoli that I'm familiar with do not look anything like a Tandon. They are designed to operate horizontally, but will work on their sides. The disk goes in through a slot, and then the entire mechanical carriage is pushed down by pressing down on a small panel in/below the middle of the slot. Pressing the same panel again permits the carriage assembly to pop back up and partialy eject the diskette. The "Type I" was 48tpi SS?, and the "Type II" was 100TPI. Since this is a completely different door, and therefore a different model, it could very well be 96TPI. How about connecting it in place of a 720K (even on a PC configured for 720K 3.5") and seeing whether the disks that it formats will interchange with a Tandon TM100-4, Teac 55F, or Shugart/Matsushita/etc 465? -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On 17 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > On 16 Apr 2001, Frank McConnell wrote: > > > Hmm, here I sit looking at one of a pair of Micropolis model 1115-VI. > > > It's a 5.25" full-height drive, serial 0372. Someone (not me) helpfully > > > wrote on it with a marker: > > > They might be right. I had heard that Micropolis came out later with a > > 96TPI, but I've never seen it. The date code and the double sided is > > consistent with that. Is it really 2 sided? What kind of door assembly > > does it have? > > Looking at it from the front, it looks like a typical full-height > Tandon as seen in an IBM PC or Shugart drive. Flat door, closes down > over center of slot. A printed-circuit board covers the top of the > drive. I think there are two sets of head leads that disappear into > the interior. The door, when closed, has a flange that pokes through > a slot in the board to interrupt an optical emitter/sensor pair. > > What's funny is that the top hub appears to be fixed. The bottom hub is > mounted to a sort of sub-frame that pretty much covers the bottom of > the drive, and it pivots (drive shaft, drive motor and all) about the > middle of the outer frame as you close the door. > > Of course, this makes looking into the interior of the drive more fun > than usual, because it's completely surrounded by stuff. > > > But they might be mistaken, and have ASSUMED 96TPI due to it not being > > 48TPI, and/or having about 80 tracks. I've even seen people label 720K > > 5.25" drives as being 1/2M, "because it's NOT a 360K". > > Yep, that is what you got me thinking. > > -Frank McConnell From h.wolter at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 17 17:23:03 2001 From: h.wolter at sympatico.ca (Heinz Wolter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: unix for the Interdata model 70 ??? References: Message-ID: <02c801c0c78c$f858ec60$3992a8c0@sympatico.ca> does it need any disks to run? Do you have it on paper tape? I would love a copy if you have easy access to it. Regards, Heinz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: unix for the Interdata model 70 ??? > Don't forget OS/16... I could get OS/16... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 17 17:55:02 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Serial Interfacing can be dangerous (was: 50 pin SCSI In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I found the reference to the reference. Page viii ("Introduction") in "The RS232 Solution" by Joe Campbell; Sybex 1984. The original reference was Infoworld, June 20, 1983. Floyd French Of Gladstone, Missouri shot and killed Henry Phillip Bouldin, the owner of the Altair Computer Center, after unsuccessful attempts to interface a computer with a serial printer. BTW, that is an excellent book for programmers with soldering irons; it takes you through making simple breakout boxes, and using LEDs to map out the signals. Several of the commercial breakout boxes pictured were mine. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > > I read about it in probably Infoworld at the time. When Joe Campbell > > was writing "The RS232 Solution" or "C Programmers guide to Serial > > Communication" (I forget which), I mentioned it to him and he tracked > > it down and put it into the book as a sidebar. I don't have either > > book handy today, but if somebody needs the reference tracked down, > > there is a full reference to the news story in one of those two books. > > I recall having recently catalogued both books and so can easily find them > and look for the reference. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 17 18:22:54 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Various manuals FS References: <200104150230.WAA22007@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <012401c0c795$59864480$a1701fd1@default> Tried emailing you off line but have not heard back from you are the books still there ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gesswein" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:30 PM Subject: Various manuals FS > I was browsing through a local used book store and found some stuff > other may want. These are the listed prices, shipping additional. I have > not purchased them but can and ship them off if interest. In general if > you have the equipment you get priority or wanting multiple, offering > PDP-8 stuff, or offering more than list. Email me not list if interested. > > Heathkit Hero Jr Robot Model RT-1 1984 > Technical Manual $2.95 > Assembly Manual $2.95 > > Digital Technical Journal Aug 1985 VAX 8600 $3.50 > > Update notice TOPS-10 operating system commands manual Feb 84 (only > update not entire manual) $5.50 > > IBM replaced maintenance parts returnable 1952 (parts list with prices > for various equipment). Somewhat worn $7.50 > > And the following Control Data (CDC) manuals. All are in reasonable > physical shape but heavily marked up. I'll be impressed if you have one > of these. > > 3300 Traning Manual second edition 1968 > Vol I $3.50 > Vol II $5.50 > > Disk storage equipment traning manual 1969 (853 and 854 drive) $4.50 > > Visual displays traning manual 1967 (210,211,212,250,280) $3.50 > > 915 page reader a programmed text 1967 > Vol I $3.50 > Vol II $5.50 > > 3300 Data processor machine language coding form $2.50 > > Logic circuits experiments 1969 $3.50 > > Active networks experiments revised 1968 $3.50 > > Passive networks experiments revised $3.50 > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights > From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 17 18:21:06 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Places in Denver References: Message-ID: <075301c0c795$144e3c60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> +AD4- Cool+ACE- Singer also made computers in the early 70s. I have a bare PCB cut Don't forget those flight simulators+ACE-. They were 1/2 articulation platform, 1/2 custom built computer. I was actually the SGI system manager (among other tasks) for the installation in Link Flight APO, Sunnyvale. The Singer-Link Flight simulator was on the order or 6' x 6 cabinets all the way to the early1990's. BTW that particular computer plant (there were others) was closed three years after they put in the Silicon Graphics machines. Co-Incidence? I think not+ACEAIQ- John A. From at258 at osfn.org Tue Apr 17 19:24:51 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You have to keep in mind the 3rd sunday of each month - that's the MIT flea market. On Thu, 12 Apr 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > It came to my attention that June 23-24 is the nationwide AARL event > weekend so I have decided against holding the VCF on that weekend. I'm > currently looking at the weekend of July 14-15 in Worcester or July 28-29 > in Marlborough. > > Stay tuned :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 17 12:03:56 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <383354294.987527036966.JavaMail.root@web537-wrb.mail.com> I didn't miss the point. Rather I choose to ignore the whining and moaning about something that is not rocket science. Given that basic box ( the key pad is removeable!) and a pair of shears I'd be running. Then again I'd be able to find a better match because I'd look rather than grousing about it. Sheesh! Allison ------Original Message------ From: "Richard Erlacher" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: April 17, 2001 2:54:34 PM GMT Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads You've missed the point, Allison ... There are dimensional requirements that have to be met if the keypad is to fit as a replacement for the KIM-1 keypad. It must physically fit, and it must have the same scanning matrix. Now, I haven't seen the chassis box to which you refer, but I'd bet that RS doesn't sell the keypad by itself, nor do I believe that the keypad is dimensionally suitable. If one is interested in an external keypad, there are LOTS of options, and there's certainly no need to consider the sort of rubbish sold at RS. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp me" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:48 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > It's in the RSU catalog. > It's on the wall in nashua as part of a chassis box. > > I don't claim any genius but, it still amazes me that I can find something so trivial with zero effort. IF ALL ELSE FAILS TRY THE DIGIKEY OR NEWARK CATALOGS. Sure they are pricy but they do have it. Keypads are still used widely for many applications, > where is the difficulty? > > Allison > > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 17, 2001 3:37:49 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > Well, talking to the folks at Radio Shack, visiting a store, and searching > through their catalog (with the aid of the fellow at the store) didn't yield any > keypad kits. The part number you posted doesn't fit a Radio Shack part number > format according to the guy at RS. That's why I asked for the part number, > because, though they have thousands of stores with many employees, they have, > collectively, only two grey cells to rub together when it comes to finding > something. That's as much as I'm going to do, since (a) I dislike going to > Radio Shack (b) I don't have a KIM-1, nor am I likely to get one, and (3) I > doubt that Radio Shack will EVER have a keypad that will even with extensive > modification be suitable for this application, or, for that matter, anything > else of any value, except by the wildest stroke of luck. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ajp166" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > > > > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've > > seen it, > > >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads > > wouldn't know > > >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. > > > > > > Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had > > it on > > the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that > > might > > as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to > > read a catalog > > these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" > > mentality > > taken over? > > > > Allison > > > > > > > From allain at panix.com Tue Apr 17 19:57:23 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4105 terminal References: <3ADC50CB.99F56B7D@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <08ee01c0c7a2$87aa7ae0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Anyone know anything about it? I have some Docs for the 4107/9, nothing on-line (except some captured help menus). The 4107 was a 4105 with a (small) display list in RAM. The 4105 had a real extensive 2D graphics library built in as ROMs, making it a sort of super smart (for the 80's) color terminal. It's graphics weren't SGI fast (also the SGI is 3D), but you had a lot of commands to work with between you and your Host (especially for the list-less 4105). I think someone else mentioned (forward in time of my catching up to the list) that the 4105 used a special keyboard. That is right. If you want I can bring my KB to the VCF east for you to try. Someone mentioned 1024??? resolution. Tek increased it to 4096, but you could only see the resolution when you told it to zoom in first. John A. From Demon02554 at aol.com Tue Apr 17 20:11:51 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips Message-ID: ok...i got my CDP-1802s so that i can build the COSMAC Elf... now i just need the RAM that the schematics have....i believe that it is 2 256x4 RAM chips...if anyone has these or can let me know where i can find them could you please let me know thanks, Robert Cobbins From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Apr 17 21:18:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Still looking for a couple of answers to questions for the Heath H-27 floppy controller Message-ID: <20010418021855.34111.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> OK... so I got this H-27 that locks up the Qbus when it is in the grant chain and works ok (except for interrupts) when it is past the end of the granted devices (one or more blank Qbus slots in-between). I've pulled and tested each and every TTL chip, but can't use the auto chip tester on the Nat'l Semi parts. My questions are this: What are the three jumpers for? (E-1 through E-3, between U11 and U12, and U7 and U8) What bus drivers/receivers directly interact with the interrupt grant chain? If I'm lucky, it's U11 and U7 - I have plenty of 8136 chips. What can I substitute for DS8837 and DS8839 chips, if one of them is at fault? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dburrows at netpath.net Tue Apr 17 20:58:17 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? Message-ID: <049901c0c7ad$11a29070$cf241bce@L166> >I am sad to hear about this, especially for you personally as well as for the >business loss. Is there any hardware that you need but now can't get? >Are there any RT-11 problems that I could help with? Sorry - I would >not be of any help with RSX/RSTS/VMS. At the moment things are basically under control. I had a system in my van that was to heavy to unload by myself and I had 5 pallets of equipment waiting to be picked up at a local friends place that has a nice loading dock. Thankfully the kids are all grown and moved out of the house so I have taken over half the house while the mess gets cleaned up and a steel building put up. > >Can you at least describe the overall probable contents of the CD and >also tell us if the contents are based on availability or because Mentec >did not want the omitted distributions on the CD? Namely, if the omitted >items became "available", could they be included? While the actual >distribution versions would be the best indication, a simple statement >that there will be RT-11 distributions would help as well. And are >the layered products being considered like FORTRAN and BASIC? There are many different distributions and IIRC some layered products. I have not looked closely at the RT11 stuff for a while. ( My background is RSX11M+) > >Also, will the CD be set up as Tim Shoppa set up the RT-11 Freeware CD >with DOS/W95/W98 files at the beginning and RT-11 partitions with >duplicates at the end? Or all DOS or all RT-11. Note that for DOS, >the first 64 blocks of partition zero in RT-11 are not available with the >raw SCSI media. With the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim Shoppa, >this is not a problem, but could be if ONLY RT-11 partitions are >on the CD. For example, PUTR from John Wilson probably can't >read the first 64 blocks of partition zero under DOS if it had been >an RT-11 partition. Note that there are a number of ways around >this problem under DOS, but they are unnecessary if RT-11 partition >zero is devoted to DOS files. I have had several thoughts on that and it will depend on time. It will be DOS, etc. readable. >Hopefully, this was not the trickle situation and these posts on classiccmp >are the best way and do not involve Mentec in any manner. I only jumped in because I did not want a bunch of people calling Mentec about it now. I am waiting for something and hope it will be here before I get tied up on service calls for the next 2 weeks. > >Can you use any help? Have you a new target date at this point? Any >information would be helpful since probably most of us were not aware >it was even being considered. In fact, can you take a few minutes and >describe what is being considered? It is basically finalized but I don't want to have people rock the boat and be calling wanting this and that added. It has been enough trouble to get it to this point and everyone agreeable on its current contents. I have wanted to include things but it will not be another DECUS type distribution. The goodies like Al Baldwin's TCP package will not be on it. ( I tried but things were to cast in stone when I got involved) > >I would certainly be willing to help with anything that I could do at my end. >I have both real PDP-11 Qbus hardware available with a SCSI host adapter >with both SCSI hard drives and Sony SMO S501 magneto optical drives >and a number of 5 1/4" disks which hold about 295 MBytes per side >(about 8.75 RT-11 partitions). I also have available a PC which can >run RT-11 under the Supnik emulator along with PUTR from John Wilson. Thanks but I have already gotten up 2)11/73's, an 11/84, M11, all with SCSI disk and tape. I have a couple 11/84's, 11/44's that will be up when time permits. These are all also on the network with the PC's and a 4100. Remember I make a large part of my living supporting customers that are running this hardware. Dan From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Apr 17 21:42:28 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: PDP-8/i: SOLD! Message-ID: The PDP-8/i has been spoken for. Thanks to all that asked. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From univac2 at earthlink.net Tue Apr 17 21:51:16 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try www.stocknsource.com. The Mototola MCM145101 is a 256 x 4 static RAM that they have an ample supply of. I have the data sheets for it if you need them. From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Apr 17 22:20:04 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? References: <049901c0c7ad$11a29070$cf241bce@L166> Message-ID: <3ADD07E4.5258D81D@idirect.com> >Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > At the moment things are basically under control. I had a system in my van > that was to heavy to unload by myself and I had 5 pallets of equipment > waiting to be picked up at a local friends place that has a nice loading > dock. Thankfully the kids are all grown and moved out of the house so I > have taken over half the house while the mess gets cleaned up and a steel > building put up. Jerome Fine replies: It sounds simple, but I understand what a mess you are probably in - good luck. > There are many different distributions and IIRC some layered products. I > have not looked closely at the RT11 stuff for a while. ( My background is > RSX11M+) This sounds like you have at least one version of RT-11 that is from V5.0x. If so and it is equal or later than the V5.03 that is on the internet, this is great news. If not, then at least is sounds like real PDP-11 hardware will be allowed. One question - if a later version that is not on the CD is available to that hobby user, will it be legal to use it was well? i.e. is the CD the last word on which versions are acceptable? Or is it just a sample of what is allowed and the CD will be available so Mentec will not be bothered by hobby users looking for the latest distribution? > >Also, will the CD be set up as Tim Shoppa set up the RT-11 Freeware CD > >with DOS/W95/W98 files at the beginning and RT-11 partitions with > >duplicates at the end? Or all DOS or all RT-11. Note that for DOS, > >the first 64 blocks of partition zero in RT-11 are not available with the > >raw SCSI media. With the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim Shoppa, > >this is not a problem, but could be if ONLY RT-11 partitions are > >on the CD. For example, PUTR from John Wilson probably can't > >read the first 64 blocks of partition zero under DOS if it had been > >an RT-11 partition. Note that there are a number of ways around > >this problem under DOS, but they are unnecessary if RT-11 partition > >zero is devoted to DOS files. > I have had several thoughts on that and it will depend on time. It will be > DOS, etc. readable. If you look at what Tim Shoppa did with the RT-11 Freeware CD, that seems like a good model. The files were duplicated in both the DOS and RT-11 portions. The RT-11 portions were set up as RT-11 partitions which can be read on a PC, along with the DOS files. I don't have a CDROM on the real PDP-11 hardware that is compatible with the Qbus host adapter, so I can't comment on what a real PDP-11 sees, but I presume that others have done so. > >Hopefully, this was not the trickle situation and these posts on classiccmp > >are the best way and do not involve Mentec in any manner. > I only jumped in because I did not want a bunch of people calling Mentec > about it now. I am waiting for something and hope it will be here before I > get tied up on service calls for the next 2 weeks. If 2 weeks is the current target to release some more news, we can certainly wait until the end of April!!!!!!!!! > >Can you use any help? Have you a new target date at this point? Any > >information would be helpful since probably most of us were not aware > >it was even being considered. In fact, can you take a few minutes and > >describe what is being considered? > It is basically finalized but I don't want to have people rock the boat and > be calling wanting this and that added. It has been enough trouble to get > it to this point and everyone agreeable on its current contents. I have > wanted to include things but it will not be another DECUS type distribution. > The goodies like Al Baldwin's TCP package will not be on it. ( I tried but > things were to cast in stone when I got involved) All this is very interesting. Hopefully, you will be able to tell us how everything was put together. > Thanks but I have already gotten up 2)11/73's, an 11/84, M11, all with SCSI > disk and tape. I have a couple 11/84's, 11/44's that will be up when time > permits. These are all also on the network with the PC's and a 4100. > Remember I make a large part of my living supporting customers that are > running this hardware. That part I understand. Perhaps when you have some time, you could provide some help and advise us on how to transfer a SCSI hard drive that has ONLY RT-11 partitions to a CDROM which can then be read on both a PC (except for the first 64 blocks on partition zero) and a real PDP-11. I would like to create an archive that is both inexpensive and long lasting. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 17 23:05:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <3ADD07E4.5258D81D@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Apr 17, 2001 11:20:04 PM Message-ID: <200104180405.VAA00612@shell1.aracnet.com> > If you look at what Tim Shoppa did with the RT-11 Freeware CD, that > seems like a good model. The files were duplicated in both the DOS > and RT-11 portions. The RT-11 portions were set up as RT-11 partitions > which can be read on a PC, along with the DOS files. I don't have a > CDROM on the real PDP-11 hardware that is compatible with the > Qbus host adapter, so I can't comment on what a real PDP-11 sees, but > I presume that others have done so. I think an important question would be, is this worth the additional effort it would take someone to put together? Or to put it another way, are there any hobbyists besides myself with a CD-ROM on thier main PDP-11? I know you've tried unsuccessfully to get a CD-ROM drive that will work with your SCSI controller. Which brings up another interesting point, how many Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? Zane From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Apr 17 23:09:43 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4105 terminal References: <3ADC50CB.99F56B7D@greenbelt.com> <08ee01c0c7a2$87aa7ae0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3ADD1387.B3403C49@greenbelt.com> Comments below. John Allain wrote: > > Anyone know anything about it? > > I have some Docs for the 4107/9, nothing > on-line (except some captured help menus). > The 4107 was a 4105 with a (small) display > list in RAM. > > The 4105 had a real extensive 2D graphics > library built in as ROMs, making it a sort of > super smart (for the 80's) color terminal. > It's graphics weren't SGI fast (also the SGI is > 3D), but you had a lot of commands to work with > between you and your Host (especially for the > list-less 4105). > > I think someone else mentioned (forward in time > of my catching up to the list) that the 4105 used a > special keyboard. That is right. If you want I can > bring my KB to the VCF east for you to try. I really am trying to get there then! If so, I will bring said Tek 4105 monitor. I am looking to find the monitor a good home. Eric > > > Someone mentioned 1024??? resolution. > Tek increased it to 4096, but you could only see > the resolution when you told it to zoom in first. > > John A. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 17 23:15:42 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Pro350/Pro380 Monitor Message-ID: <200104180415.f3I4Fh308779@narnia.int.dittman.net> Can a Pro350/Pro380 use a VR241 monitor using the built-in video (in mono-mode, of course), or does the VR241 require the color daughterboard? Also, does anyone have a spare daughterboard for sale? Thanks. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Apr 17 23:29:05 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Dr. Dobb's from the '80's --- taken., Thanks. Message-ID: <200104180430.f3I4Uru29138@grover.winsite.com> Thanks for the replies. First one in got 'em. I have some other old stuff to clear out as I make room for the audio studio here in the basement....if it doesn't sell, I'll throw it up here. Have a bunch of Byte's going way back, plus several Kilobauds and some other stuff. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From leec at slip.net Tue Apr 17 23:46:21 2001 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <200104180405.VAA00612@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > Which brings up another interesting point, how many > Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? ...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a 'pure' PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages. Lee Courtney President Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of healyzh@aracnet.com > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:05 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? > > > > If you look at what Tim Shoppa did with the RT-11 Freeware CD, that > > seems like a good model. The files were duplicated in both the DOS > > and RT-11 portions. The RT-11 portions were set up as RT-11 partitions > > which can be read on a PC, along with the DOS files. I don't have a > > CDROM on the real PDP-11 hardware that is compatible with the > > Qbus host adapter, so I can't comment on what a real PDP-11 sees, but > > I presume that others have done so. > > I think an important question would be, is this worth the > additional effort > it would take someone to put together? Or to put it another way, > are there > any hobbyists besides myself with a CD-ROM on thier main PDP-11? I know > you've tried unsuccessfully to get a CD-ROM drive that will work with your > SCSI controller. Which brings up another interesting point, how many > Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? > > Zane > From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 17 23:59:03 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 Message-ID: <200104180459.f3I4x3J08957@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have a MicroVAX II in a BA23 cabinet. I'd like to convert this to a PDP-11. I know I'll need to replace the CPU and memory and remove the GPX boards, but what else do I need to replace? The disk is an RD54 on a RQDX3 controller and the tape is a TK50 on a TQK50. I've also got a DELQA Ethernet board. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Apr 17 23:28:34 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Micropolis drives (was: Micro-Expander disks In-Reply-To: "Fred Cisin's message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 15:15:26 -0700 (PDT)" References: Message-ID: <200104180428.f3I4SY966260@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > The early Micropoli that I'm familiar with do not look anything like a > Tandon. They are designed to operate horizontally, but will work on their > sides. The disk goes in through a slot, and then the entire mechanical > carriage is pushed down by pressing down on a small panel in/below the > middle of the slot. Pressing the same panel again permits the carriage > assembly to pop back up and partialy eject the diskette. The "Type I" was > 48tpi SS?, and the "Type II" was 100TPI. This drive is definitely different: it's more like the entire mechanical carriage is pushed down when the door is opened, and rises when the door is closed. Given the date I wonder whether it's a redesign to look like the drives on the IBM PC. Oh, and I was wrong about one thing: there is an optical emittor/sensor and a bit that interrupts it, but it's not directly attached to the door, and it interrupts when the door is open. > How about connecting it in place of a 720K (even on a PC configured for > 720K 3.5") and seeing whether the disks that it formats will interchange > with a Tandon TM100-4, Teac 55F, or Shugart/Matsushita/etc 465? There's a thought. I think I have a Morrow Micro Decision that's been fitted with a 96TPI 5.25" drive (along with a 720K 3.5" and two 48TPI 5.25" drives), I should try to dig that (and its software) out and see if I can exchange media between them. -Frank McConnell From claudew at videotron.ca Wed Apr 18 00:01:40 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... Message-ID: <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Sheeesh...not surprised....at all.... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010417/wr/crime_ebay_dc_1.html I will continue to boycott this place as both a potential seller and buyer. Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/46e4a3d0/attachment.html From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 00:09:37 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: DEC support on Compaq Message-ID: This might interest some of you with DEC equipment, found by someone else on Compaq's site: http://www4.support.compaq.com/support/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 18 00:34:37 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200104180459.f3I4x3J08957@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >I have a MicroVAX II in a BA23 cabinet. I'd like >to convert this to a PDP-11. I know I'll need to >replace the CPU and memory and remove the GPX boards, >but what else do I need to replace? The disk is an >RD54 on a RQDX3 controller and the tape is a TK50 >on a TQK50. I've also got a DELQA Ethernet board. That's all you need to replace except for the Cab Kit for the CPU board. The RD54 is one of the best MFM disks you can have in it, however, I'd really recommend finding a 3rd party ESDI or SCSI controller if you can. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jss at ou.edu Wed Apr 18 00:50:04 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Interdata history In-Reply-To: <3ADC98CA.276EF372@greenbelt.com> References: <3ADC5A60.F54036C2@greenbelt.com> <987525212.3adc705c07529@email.ou.edu> <3ADC98CA.276EF372@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <987573004.3add2b0cb78e1@email.ou.edu> Quoting Eric Chomko : > Please reread the previous 'Interdata History' post. I posted it > based upon a message pulled off a.f.c. I quoted someone else *Will > Jennings". *DOH* ...sorry 'bout that. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 18 00:21:01 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > You have to keep in mind the 3rd sunday of each month - that's the MIT > flea market. As long as it's mostly over by 10am then it shouldn't conflict. The two hamfests out in the Silicon Valley are pretty much wrapped up by 11am (starting at 6am and 7am). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From stanb at dial.pipex.com Tue Apr 17 15:07:26 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:03:46 +0200." <001b01c0c768$bffc8ee0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <200104172007.VAA29715@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, You said: > Hi Stan, > > If you use Linux you could try WINE ...... > > I would be curious if that would work ...... > Good idea...I've only an old copy of Wine at the moment but I'll have a try later in the week. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 18 02:37:38 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <383354294.987527036966.JavaMail.root@web537-wrb.mail.com> Message-ID: <02c401c0c7da$83a4fdc0$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp me To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > I didn't miss the point. Rather I choose to ignore the whining > and moaning about something that is not rocket science. Given that basic box ( the key pad is removeable!) and a pair of shears I'd be running. Then again I'd be able to find a better match because I'd look rather than grousing about it. > > Sheesh! Since I found a suitable keyswitch solution at Newark Electronics and ordered them tonight, does this mean this friendly little flamewar will end? :) I suppose the whole computer is worth about $0.25 in real terms apart from any collectible or sentimental value. Sheesh indeed. :) > > Allison > > > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 17, 2001 2:54:34 PM GMT > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > You've missed the point, Allison ... There are dimensional requirements that > have to be met if the keypad is to fit as a replacement for the KIM-1 keypad. > It must physically fit, and it must have the same scanning matrix. Now, I > haven't seen the chassis box to which you refer, but I'd bet that RS doesn't > sell the keypad by itself, nor do I believe that the keypad is dimensionally > suitable. > > If one is interested in an external keypad, there are LOTS of options, and > there's certainly no need to consider the sort of rubbish sold at RS. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ajp me" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:48 AM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > It's in the RSU catalog. > > It's on the wall in nashua as part of a chassis box. > > > > I don't claim any genius but, it still amazes me that I can find something so > trivial with zero effort. IF ALL ELSE FAILS TRY THE DIGIKEY OR NEWARK CATALOGS. > Sure they are pricy but they do have it. Keypads are still used widely for many > applications, > > where is the difficulty? > > > > Allison > > > > > > ------Original Message------ > > From: "Richard Erlacher" > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent: April 17, 2001 3:37:49 AM GMT > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > Well, talking to the folks at Radio Shack, visiting a store, and searching > > through their catalog (with the aid of the fellow at the store) didn't yield > any > > keypad kits. The part number you posted doesn't fit a Radio Shack part number > > format according to the guy at RS. That's why I asked for the part number, > > because, though they have thousands of stores with many employees, they have, > > collectively, only two grey cells to rub together when it comes to finding > > something. That's as much as I'm going to do, since (a) I dislike going to > > Radio Shack (b) I don't have a KIM-1, nor am I likely to get one, and (3) I > > doubt that Radio Shack will EVER have a keypad that will even with extensive > > modification be suitable for this application, or, for that matter, anything > > else of any value, except by the wildest stroke of luck. > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ajp166" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM > > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > > > > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > > > > > > > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've > > > seen it, > > > >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads > > > wouldn't know > > > >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. > > > > > > > > > Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had > > > it on > > > the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that > > > might > > > as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to > > > read a catalog > > > these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" > > > mentality > > > taken over? > > > > > > Allison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 18 02:45:05 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads References: <383621158.987511723152.JavaMail.root@web623-wrb.mail.com> Message-ID: <02d401c0c7db$7e1f0020$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp me To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 5:48 AM Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > It's in the RSU catalog. > It's on the wall in nashua as part of a chassis box. > > I don't claim any genius but, it still amazes me that I can find something so trivial with zero effort. IF ALL ELSE FAILS TRY THE DIGIKEY OR NEWARK CATALOGS. Sure they are pricy but they do have it. Keypads are still used widely for many applications, > where is the difficulty? Funny you mention Newark. That's where I ended up via Grayhill's web page. (Actually, they were just the most favorable of many in terms of minimum order and stock quantities of several.) I'm still surprised that Digikey, Jameco, Arrow, and JDR were such dead-ends, as usually one of those pans out for almost anything. These little carpal-tunnel beauties are on their way. :) > > Allison > > > ------Original Message------ > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: April 17, 2001 3:37:49 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > Well, talking to the folks at Radio Shack, visiting a store, and searching > through their catalog (with the aid of the fellow at the store) didn't yield any > keypad kits. The part number you posted doesn't fit a Radio Shack part number > format according to the guy at RS. That's why I asked for the part number, > because, though they have thousands of stores with many employees, they have, > collectively, only two grey cells to rub together when it comes to finding > something. That's as much as I'm going to do, since (a) I dislike going to > Radio Shack (b) I don't have a KIM-1, nor am I likely to get one, and (3) I > doubt that Radio Shack will EVER have a keypad that will even with extensive > modification be suitable for this application, or, for that matter, anything > else of any value, except by the wildest stroke of luck. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ajp166" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 5:13 PM > Subject: Re: Kim / Commie keypads > > > > From: Richard Erlacher > > > > > > > >This RS pad must have a catalog number, though, Allison. Since you've > > seen it, > > >perhaps you could provide the catalog number, as the RS meatheads > > wouldn't know > > >what a keypad kit was if you asked them. > > > > > > Well while picking up a barrel connector I noticed the Nashua store had > > it on > > the wall. I think 270-015 is the catalog number. Sheesh, if I do that > > might > > as well sent it to me for installation and labeling. Is it possible to > > read a catalog > > these days or has the "go ask the web, thin I don't have to work" > > mentality > > taken over? > > > > Allison > > > > > > From dogbert at mindless.com Wed Apr 18 03:03:35 2001 From: dogbert at mindless.com (Ross Archer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips References: Message-ID: <02eb01c0c7de$23b4ea20$1322a8c0@cisco.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:11 PM Subject: looking for some old RAM chips > ok...i got my CDP-1802s so that i can build the COSMAC Elf... > now i just need the RAM that the schematics have....i believe that it is 2 > 256x4 RAM chips...if anyone has these or can let me know where i can find > them could you please let me know > > thanks, > Robert Cobbins > Are you going for an authentic recreation, or would a functional substitution be adequate? Given how expensive and scarce 1Kx4 2114s are, 256x4s ought to be even moreso. There are inexpensive 8-bit wide SRAMs available with anything from 2Kx8 to 128Kx8, which will do the job nicely in 1 chip. One tricky thing is that the 1802 multiplexes its address output in 2 x 8 bit parts, if I read the data sheet correctly. This means you would connect only A0...A7 of the available address pins from the SRAM to the 1802 and ground the remaining address inputs. You'll "waste" all but 256 bytes but then again, memory is cheap. At least the silicon kind. :) You can demux/latch too, if you really want to toggle in more than 256 bytes! =:-O Aiiiiieeee!!! From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 18 06:04:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:25 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> References: <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: It is possible though to get some good deals, especially on non-classic computer stuff, on eBay. Not to mention that many of the sellers are very reputable. I doubt the number of bad eggs, percentage wise, is any worse than going to flea markets and such. At least with eBay there is some recourse if there's a problem with another user, which isn't always the case with flea markets. I know I check a sellers feedback very carefully, as do most people. One's feedback rating makes a big difference. Jeff >Sheeesh...not surprised....at all.... > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010417/wr/crime_ebay_dc_1.html > >I will continue to boycott this place as both a potential seller and buyer. > >Claude >Canuk Computer Collector >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/96dfb35f/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 17 23:15:21 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20010417134924.25cfcb80@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010417231521.25179bf6@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:29 PM 4/17/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >> I have access to a couple of 8560s but I'm fairly certain that there are >> no drives of any kind on them. Were the drives optional???? > >These machines are in 2 boxes from what I rmember. One of them contains >things like the in-circuit emulator boards, a small logic analyser, EPROM >programmer, and so on. Many of those features are optional -- you >configured the unit with the bits you needed. > >The other box is a PDP11-based [1] computer. It has 2 8" drive bays. >Standard configurations are 2 floppy drives or one floppy drive and one >Micropolis 1200-series winchester. I've never heard of one without drives >at all -- in fact I don't think it could work. > >[1] DEC CPU card, either 11/03 or 11/23 and Tektronix I/O and memory. > >-tony > > I guess I'll have to go look. They're all stored elsewhere and I haven't looked at them in a while. I've never tried to fire any of them up so it's anybody's guess as to wheather or not they work or if they have any software in them. They do have DEC 11/23 CPU cards in them. I opened one one time and pulled the cards out and checked them. The CPU is the only DEC card in them and all the other cards use an entirely different connector. I know one of them has a 68000 pod on it and I think one of the others has a Z-8000 pod and I think there are a couple of loose pods (6809?) floating around too. Joe From louiss at gate.net Wed Apr 18 07:19:38 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Pro350/Pro380 Monitor In-Reply-To: <200104180415.f3I4Fh308779@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200104181219.IAA13368@flathead.gate.net> Since text is always displayed in mono mode (using green only, sync on green), just connecting the mono output to green should work fine. Louis On Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:15:42 -0500 (CDT), Eric Dittman wrote: #Can a Pro350/Pro380 use a VR241 monitor using the #built-in video (in mono-mode, of course), or does #the VR241 require the color daughterboard? # #Also, does anyone have a spare daughterboard for sale? # #Thanks. #-- #Eric Dittman #dittman@dittman.net # From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 18 07:34:15 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 17, 2001 10:34:37 PM Message-ID: <200104181234.f3ICYFU10132@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I have a MicroVAX II in a BA23 cabinet. I'd like > >to convert this to a PDP-11. I know I'll need to > >replace the CPU and memory and remove the GPX boards, > >but what else do I need to replace? The disk is an > >RD54 on a RQDX3 controller and the tape is a TK50 > >on a TQK50. I've also got a DELQA Ethernet board. > > That's all you need to replace except for the Cab Kit for the CPU board. > > The RD54 is one of the best MFM disks you can have in it, however, I'd > really recommend finding a 3rd party ESDI or SCSI controller if you can. Thanks. Now for the next obvious question: Does anyone have a spare CPU/memory/cab kit for sale? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 07:43:30 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Re: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on thFeedback is a good indicator in general but isn't always accurate. I've edealt with sellers and buyers that had bad., nasty comments only to find (after working with them) that it was likely someone that wanted to back out or something else. One of our fellow collectors by the username of Polbit gave me a nice negative stating that my machine was junk when it was sold for $6 and was in the posted condition. By the buyer's description in email I think he/she was trying to scam me by buying a good condition PS/2 55SX from me and then try to intimidate me into taking the crap one they had back. No way, I sell as final sales and when asked what the serial that they recieved was I got one totally different than the one I shipped (I track them all) so I knew that it was a "return it or I'll post. Best part of selling by ebay - you only get burned by a person once - they have a system where you can post any user's name, up to 1000 of them, and those users will be barred from bidding on any of your auctions. Another neat feature is if you have a specific item that you only want a handful of specific people to bid on it, you can post it and then enter allowed bidder's usernames for that specific item. I did this with a hospital out in boulder for an older Compaq machine with EISA (they needed it for a certain bio-med card) and wanted the security of it being an ebay item with ebay's item insurance. Worked well too and they paid for it with credit card through ebay's billpoint and I had the unit out that afternoon. Sure ebay made some money on what I could have sold direct but the buyer felt that they had a security in place too which they did and they also had a receipt for records from their credit card transaction as well. Of course the unit went into my business books due to it being done this way even though the old machines are personal property I bought long ago. There's good and bad to all things, you just have to be careful. Drop $5 in a slot machine in Vegas you expect to never see it but when it does jackpot you feel good. The auctions are a lot like that in many ways. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 6:04 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... It is possible though to get some good deals, especially on non-classic computer stuff, on eBay. Not to mention that many of the sellers are very reputable. I doubt the number of bad eggs, percentage wise, is any worse than going to flea markets and such. At least with eBay there is some recourse if there's a problem with another user, which isn't always the case with flea markets. I know I check a sellers feedback very carefully, as do most people. One's feedback rating makes a big difference. Jeff Sheeesh...not surprised....at all.... http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010417/wr/crime_ebay_dc_1.html I will continue to boycott this place as both a potential seller and buyer. Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/b8c05510/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Apr 18 08:14:41 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010418081441.0a6f0fd8@mailhost.intellistar.net> I just had to send this one to the list! Joe > > 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > > 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. > > 2. You have a list of 15 phone numbers to reach your family of three. > > 3. You call your son's beeper to let him know it's time to eat He emails >you back from his bedroom,"What's for dinner?" > > 4. Your daughter sells Girl Scout Cookies via her web site. > > 5. You chat several times a day with a stranger from South Africa, but >you haven't spoken with your next door neighbor yet this year. > > 6. You check the ingredients on a can of chicken noodle sou to see if it >contains Echinacea. > > 7. You check your blow-dryer to see if it's Y2K compliant. > > 8. Your grandmother clogs up your e-mail inbox asking you to send her a >JPEG file of your newborn so she can create a screen saver. > > 9. You pull up in your own driveway and use your cell phone to see if >anyone is home. > > 10. Every commercial on television has a website address at the bottom of >the screen. > > 11. You buy a computer and a week later it is out of date > and now sells for half the price you paid. > > 12. The concept of using real money, instead of credit or debit to make a >purchase is foreign to you. > > 13. Cleaning up the dining room means getting the fast food bags out of >the back seat of your car. > > 14. Your reason for not staying in touch with family is that they do not >have e-mail addresses. > > 15. You consider second-day air delivery painfully slow. > > 16. Your dining room table is now your flat filing cabinet. > > 17. Your idea of being organized is multiple-colored Post-it notes. > > 18. You hear most of your jokes via e-mail instead of in person. > > 19. You get an extra phone line so you can get phone calls. > > 20. You turn off your Modem and get this awful feeling,as if you just >pulled the plug on a loved one. > > 21. You get up in morning and go online before getting your coffee. > > 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail on >your way back to bed. > > 23. You start tilting your head sideways to smile. :) > > 24. You're reading this. > > 25. Even worse; you're going to forward it. > From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Apr 18 08:28:35 2001 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: SC/MP Elektor Emulator Message-ID: http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/ -----Original Message----- From: Sipke de Wal [mailto:sipke@wxs.nl] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 4:14 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: SC/MP Elektor Emulator By the way ....... I know the url of the dutch Elektor site: http://www.elektuur.nl (but don't know if they have versions of their site for other languages ) From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Apr 18 09:06:22 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED .... References: <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <3ADD9F5E.60870132@idirect.com> Jeff Hellige wrote: It is possible though to get some good deals, especially on non-classic computer stuff, on eBay. Not to mention that many of the sellers are very reputable. I doubt the number of bad eggs, percentage wise, is any worse than going to flea markets and such. At least with eBay there is some recourse if there's a problem with another user, which isn't always the case with flea markets. I know I check a sellers feedback very carefully, as do most people. One's feedback rating makes a big difference. Jerome Fine replies: I agree that there are both good not not so good experiences with eBay, but on average, I have been quite satisfied. Of the few times I have actually bid, I usually wait until the last minute since the first few times I bid, I was always overbid. Of the fewer times I was the top (only) bidder, the most difficult part of one transaction was the payment - the vendor had stated that Master Card was accepted, but did not qualify that BillPay (or one of the other services was also required) and I was not able to do so since I am not in the US. After many e-mails back and forth, I ended up sending a US Money Order, but I found that the attitude that I had made the mistake the most annoying. Also interesting is that 90% of the items actually work even though the conditions of sale were always "AS IS". The best situation I found was for an auction that I did not win. The fellow had stated that additional (magneto optical) disks would be available to the winning bidder. I sent an e-mail just in case and I ended up buying many more than I really can use because the price was so low - although the shipping was expensive since the disks are so heavy. So, overall, I assume that eBay is likely to have a few rotten apples, but then again, some of them will be the buyers in addition to the vendors. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Apr 18 09:18:57 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 References: <200104181234.f3ICYFU10132@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3ADDA251.91DDFB7@idirect.com> >Eric Dittman wrote: > Now for the next obvious question: Does anyone have > a spare CPU/memory/cab kit for sale? Jerome Fine replies: Would you be satisfied with an M8189 (KDF11-B or a quad 11/23) and 1/2 MByte of memory? I don't know where they might be right now, but I could look if the answer is yes. And then are you going to ask for software as well? If not, which OS are you going to run and have you thought about documentation and spares and backup? By the way, if you are going to use RT-11, then V5.03 is the version that I would strongly recommend as the least version since previous versions are not able to access the full drive, only the first 32 MBytes. And prior to V5.0, RT-11 could not even use an RD54. Actually, V5.0 probably can't use an RD54 either since I doubt that it can manage the RQDX3, but starting with V5.03, RT-11 is OK. However, the TK50 was not supported until at least V5.04 and possibly not until around V5.04A or V5.04C - I not sure which. From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Apr 18 09:24:52 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Interdata history References: <3ADC5A60.F54036C2@greenbelt.com> <987525212.3adc705c07529@email.ou.edu> <3ADC98CA.276EF372@greenbelt.com> <987573004.3add2b0cb78e1@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3ADDA3B4.A500B4E3@greenbelt.com> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Quoting Eric Chomko : > > Please reread the previous 'Interdata History' post. I posted it > > based upon a message pulled off a.f.c. I quoted someone else *Will > > Jennings". > > *DOH* > > ...sorry 'bout that. > Hey, no biggie.. I probably would actually enjoy doing it, but am way over my head with projects right now to even think of committing to something like that! Eric > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From at258 at osfn.org Wed Apr 18 09:47:39 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The MIT events last most of the day, until 3 or after. It's something you should know about. On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > You have to keep in mind the 3rd sunday of each month - that's the MIT > > flea market. > > As long as it's mostly over by 10am then it shouldn't conflict. The two > hamfests out in the Silicon Valley are pretty much wrapped up by 11am > (starting at 6am and 7am). > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 18 10:01:09 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East References: Message-ID: <004d01c0c818$675ea4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> You have to keep in mind the 3rd sunday of each month >> - that's the MIT flea market. >As long as it's mostly over by 10am then it shouldn't conflict. The two >hamfests out in the Silicon Valley are pretty much wrapped up by 11am >(starting at 6am and 7am). I've been to both FootHill and MIT. Add two hours for MIT. It starts at 9am and will usually run past 12n. (t'll be 6am only if you forget to set your watch Sellam.) If there is VCF on that Sunday you will not see me until 1pm+. John A. P.S. what is out there besides FootHill? It's been a while. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 18 10:04:54 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010418150454.23120.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Demon02554@aol.com wrote: > ok...i got my CDP-1802s so that i can build the COSMAC Elf... > now i just need the RAM that the schematics have....i believe that it is 2 > 256x4 RAM chips...if anyone has these or can let me know where i can find > them could you please let me know I've seen places with the 1822s for sale in the past couple of years. It's not the same, but B.G. Micro has 2102s for <$1 each (the web page from their online catalog is at http://www.bgmicro.com/pdf/page5.pdf) You could always use a more modern 2016 or 6264 or such and just tie the upper address lines to 0. You can scavenge those from old Ethernet cards and the like. The speed requirements of the 1802 are not harsh. I think you can get away with 450ns RAM on a 1Mhz design. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 18 10:11:56 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010418151156.36636.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lee Courtney wrote: > > Which brings up another interesting point, how many > > Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? > > ...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a 'pure' > PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages. If I had it, I'd use it. I only have Qbus MFM (RQDX1, RQDX3), SDI (KDA-50), and Systems Industry proprietary (SI9900) controllers. I don't even have an ESDI or SMD controller (but I do have a pile of ESDI and SMD drives). It's been a big drawback when attempting to play with a real OS on real hardware (as opposed to emulation). I have a couple RD54 drives a few RD53 drives, a couple RA81s, a couple of RA70s and lots of <1Gb SCSI disks (and <150Mb MFM ;-) I always wanted to run 2.9BSD on something real (had the tapes since 1987). Never had the right combination of CPU, controller and disk to make it work (except for playing with a dual RL02 setup - it loaded, but there was no room to do anything). I did dump the tapes to image files and emulate the whole shebang on my first SPARC1 in 1994 - ISTR it ran about 30% of real speed. Anyway... if I could find a Qbus SCSI controller for <$200, I'd be interested. If I could find one for <$50, I'd buy it on the spot. -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Apr 18 10:28:57 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: small TCP/IP package installation question (in RT11) Message-ID: Hi all. I am trying to install the small FTP and TELNET package in Ersatz-11. I downloaded the smltcp.dsk and dvrdsk.dsk image files. However, when I use PUTR, I cannot "DIRIRECTORY" the contents. Example of screen output: (C:\E11)>mount ld0: dvrdsk.dsk ?Unable to identify file system (C:\E11)> (C:\E11)>mount ld0: dvrdsk.dsk /RT11 (C:\E11)>dir ld0: Volume in drive LD) is RB 03-JAN-97 Add SPFUNs Directory of LD0:\*.* 18-Apr-2001 ?Corrupt directory (C:\E11)> Perhaps it is just a simple thing I overlook, but whatever I try it looks like the DSK file is bad. I downloaded the file with Netscape 4.76 and right-clicked on the link and choose "Save link as..." from the pop-up menu. BTW, the page is http://shop-pdp.kent.edu/sshtml/tcpget.htm Kind regards, Henk Gooijen, PDP-11 collector Sneak-peek of retro-computing: http://home.12move.nl/~sh416008 From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 18 11:11:24 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <3ADDA251.91DDFB7@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Apr 18, 2001 10:18:57 AM Message-ID: <200104181611.f3IGBOU10938@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Now for the next obvious question: Does anyone have > > a spare CPU/memory/cab kit for sale? > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Would you be satisfied with an M8189 (KDF11-B or a quad > 11/23) and 1/2 MByte of memory? I don't know where they > might be right now, but I could look if the answer is yes. Yes, I would be interested in the boards as long as they are cheap. An 11/23 was one of the systems I used way back. > And then are you going to ask for software as well? If not, which > OS are you going to run and have you thought about documentation > and spares and backup? I've got the OS. As for spares, I've got a spare set of the everything but the CPU and memory. This came about as a "gee, I've got all this stuff from when I used to work on a PDP-11, and now that I've got a house and computer room I want to get a PDP-11 running off my own." The MVII was an obvious starting point since it has a Q-bus and I don't use it anymore since I've got a couple of faster VAX systems. > By the way, if you are going to use RT-11, then V5.03 is the version > that I would strongly recommend as the least version since previous > versions are not able to access the full drive, only the first 32 MBytes. > And prior to V5.0, RT-11 could not even use an RD54. Actually, > V5.0 probably can't use an RD54 either since I doubt that it can > manage the RQDX3, but starting with V5.03, RT-11 is OK. > > However, the TK50 was not supported until at least V5.04 and > possibly not until around V5.04A or V5.04C - I not sure which. I've used RT-11, but I've mostly used RSX-11M. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From alex at linuxhacker.org Wed Apr 18 11:09:03 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED .... In-Reply-To: <3ADD9F5E.60870132@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jerome Fine wrote: > that BillPay (or one of the other services was also required) and I was > not able to do so since I am not in the US. After many e-mails back Note that PayPal has recently been made available to quite a few countries other than the US, and they handle the currency conversion automatically (for a small commission). I'm in the UK, and I just signed up to it. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Apr 18 11:36:41 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: <200104151301.f3FD1Zg02977@bg-tc-ppp103.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Bill Pechter wrote: > Anyone else out there ever see a Singer System 10... I don't, but I did go to a job interview at a company in Tiptree, Essex, England where they had one, in about 1988. I read later that the Singer System 10 was an early RISC machine, although it's not clear that Singer designed it with the knowledge that making it RISC would make it faster. It may have simply been a minimal CPU design that came out RISC-like in hindsight. Anyone know any more details? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Apr 18 11:54:11 2001 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Classic computer sightings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just thought I'd mention my visit to the Science Museum, London last week. They've opened a new gallery "Making The Modern World", which includes such items as the Apollo 10 capsule, some bubble cars and the first video recorder. They have some computer artefacts I've not seen there before, as well as the Babbage engine and NPL Pilot ACE that I've seen before. One of the new items was an Apple I, nicely arranged with the cover opened to show the internals. Nearby was a Cray 1A, also with some of the covers removed. In the domestic appliances display was an Apple ][, a Sinclair ZX80 and some games consoles. http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/ Meanwhile, I've been given a collection of Byte magazines going back to 1981, at least. But I had to give up on the HP ColorPro plotter that's been in the skip (dumpster) all over Easter and seems to be rather the worse for wear. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 18 12:14:47 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Swaps (was: Update on dates for VCF East In-Reply-To: <004d01c0c818$675ea4c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Foothill is about 6:00 until a little after 9:00 PDT John Allain says that MIT is 9:00 until after 12:00 EDT. Could it possibly be coincidence that those are exactly the same time? Would that mean that a swap in England would be in the afternoon? Hmmmm. If I moved east, I could sleep later. Foothill is only a shadow of what it once was. How is MIT holding up? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 18 11:32:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: References: <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: Classic element of a ripoff, greedy buyers. These guys listed detailed pictures of a "yardsale" item their "wife" wouldn't let them keep and started bidding at just a few bucks, when the images made it look like a very rare and valuable (millions) painting. Greed makes people blind. OTOH did you read the whole story, these clowns got off with a wrist slap plea bargain, when evidence pointed to 1100 cases of shill bidding and other fraud. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 18 12:46:33 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <3ADDA251.91DDFB7@idirect.com> References: <200104181234.f3ICYFU10132@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >However, the TK50 was not supported until at least V5.04 and >possibly not until around V5.04A or V5.04C - I not sure which. Plain old V5.04 supports the TK50. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 18 12:52:58 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: small TCP/IP package installation question (in RT11) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Perhaps it is just a simple thing I overlook, but whatever I try >it looks like the DSK file is bad. >I downloaded the file with Netscape 4.76 and right-clicked on the >link and choose "Save link as..." from the pop-up menu. >BTW, the page is http://shop-pdp.kent.edu/sshtml/tcpget.htm While I've not installed it under E11, I have used PUTR to pull out the doc files while travelling. Did you save as TEXT or SOURCE when you downloaded it with Netscape? I'd recommend trying a real FTP client and FTPing it as binary. BTW, one word of advice, follow the instructions to very carefully, you'll save yourself a lot of headaches! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Apr 18 14:10:41 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > Classic element of a ripoff, greedy buyers. These guys listed detailed > pictures of a "yardsale" item their "wife" wouldn't let them keep and > started bidding at just a few bucks, when the images made it look like a > very rare and valuable (millions) painting. Greed makes people blind. > > OTOH did you read the whole story, these clowns got off with a wrist slap > plea bargain, when evidence pointed to 1100 cases of shill bidding and > other fraud. > > Yeah, just another reason to snipe :-) Caveat emptor, jbdigriz From liste at artware.qc.ca Wed Apr 18 13:12:28 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010418081441.0a6f0fd8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On 18-Apr-2001 Joe wrote: > I just had to send this one to the list! > > Joe > >> >> 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 >> >> 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. I don't own one. >> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail >> on your way back to bed. [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* -Philip From mbg at world.std.com Wed Apr 18 13:18:23 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 References: <200104181234.f3ICYFU10132@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <200104181818.OAA23616@world.std.com> >By the way, if you are going to use RT-11, then V5.03 is the version >that I would strongly recommend as the least version since previous >versions are not able to access the full drive, only the first 32 MBytes. >And prior to V5.0, RT-11 could not even use an RD54. Actually, V5.0 >probably can't use an RD54 either since I doubt that it can manage the >RQDX3, but starting with V5.03, RT-11 is OK. MSCP support was first added in V5.0, so no, the RD54 won't work. Neither will RX33s, or any of the RD series which needs an RQDX3, since that wasn't completely supported until V5.2. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From quapla at xs4all.nl Wed Apr 18 13:18:37 2001 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <20010418151156.36636.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010418151156.36636.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200104181818.UAA11958@webmail1.xs4all.nl> I am. Using an Unibus SCSI card with 2 jaz drives and one ZIP drive. Ed Quoting Ethan Dicks : > > --- Lee Courtney wrote: > > > Which brings up another interesting point, how many > > > Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? > > > > ...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a > 'pure' > > PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages. > > If I had it, I'd use it. I only have Qbus MFM (RQDX1, RQDX3), SDI > (KDA-50), > and Systems Industry proprietary (SI9900) controllers. I don't even have > an ESDI or SMD controller (but I do have a pile of ESDI and SMD drives). > > It's been a big drawback when attempting to play with a real OS on real > hardware (as opposed to emulation). I have a couple RD54 drives a few > RD53 drives, a couple RA81s, a couple of RA70s and lots of <1Gb SCSI > disks (and <150Mb MFM ;-) > > I always wanted to run 2.9BSD on something real (had the tapes since 1987). > Never had the right combination of CPU, controller and disk to make it > work (except for playing with a dual RL02 setup - it loaded, but there was > no room to do anything). I did dump the tapes to image files and emulate > the whole shebang on my first SPARC1 in 1994 - ISTR it ran about 30% of > real speed. > > Anyway... if I could find a Qbus SCSI controller for <$200, I'd be > interested. If I could find one for <$50, I'd buy it on the spot. > > -ethan > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 18 13:42:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010418081441.0a6f0fd8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >> 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. You've never had to do this? How else do you think you get those commercial style microwaves to run for the amount of time that *YOU* want? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 13:45:05 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exactly why I don't bid until 35 seconds are left. If it has a bid higher than that then I'll find another later. Never could see that kind of money for "art" anyway when "food" is a more necessary item. > Yeah, just another reason to snipe :-) From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Apr 18 13:44:35 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: RE: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 (liste@artware.qc.ca) References: <3.0.1.16.20010418081441.0a6f0fd8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <15069.57491.374499.315077@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 18, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > >> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail > >> on your way back to bed. > [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* Hell, I did this LAST NIGHT. And the night before... -Dave McGuire From curt at atari-history.com Wed Apr 18 16:47:49 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 References: Message-ID: <3ADE0B84.BB32CDA7@atari-history.com> liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > On 18-Apr-2001 Joe wrote: > > I just had to send this one to the list! > > > > Joe > > > >> > >> 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > >> > >> 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. > I don't own one. > > >> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail > >> on your way back to bed. > [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* Whew! Boy, and I thought I was the only pathetic soul to do that! Glad to see I'm in similar company :-) {Boy does my wife get pissed off when I go to "get a drink of water" and 3 hours later she comes upstairs to my loft where the computers are to yell at me and ask just how big of a glass of water am I getting and what site do I need to go to in order to get it, yikes!} Curt > > > -Philip From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Apr 18 13:53:33 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 Message-ID: In a message dated 4/18/01 2:52:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, curt@atari-history.com writes: > > Whew! Boy, and I thought I was the only pathetic soul to do that! Glad to > see I'm in similar company :-) {Boy does my wife get pissed off when I go > to "get a drink of water" and 3 hours later she comes upstairs to my loft > where the computers are to yell at me and ask just how big of a glass of > water am I getting and what site do I need to go to in order to get it, > yikes!} > > > Curt > And I thought I was the only one :-) -Linc Fessenden A good magician never reveals his secret; the unbelievable trick becomes simple and obvious once it is explained. So too with LINUX! The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 13:58:53 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <15069.57491.374499.315077@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: You guys are sleeping at 2am? I'm up until about 3:30 and then back up around 6:30, everyday. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:45 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > > > On April 18, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > >> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail > > >> on your way back to bed. > > [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* > > Hell, I did this LAST NIGHT. And the night before... > > > -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 18 14:24:00 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <15069.57491.374499.315077@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <01Apr18.153259edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Wednesday, April 18, 2001, at 02:44 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 18, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: >>>> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail >>>> on your way back to bed. >> [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* > Hell, I did this LAST NIGHT. And the night before... That, and the last thing that was done prior to going to bed, as well as the first thing done when I get up in the morning is to check my email....which explains my posts done at 4-5am Jeff From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Apr 18 14:30:57 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >> 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. > > You've never had to do this? How else do you think you get those > commercial style microwaves to run for the amount of time that *YOU* want? > What's worse is dialing an IP address on a telephone. I've done this at least twice. Fortunately for me, I caught it before the phone started to ring on the other end. :) g. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 18 13:33:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips In-Reply-To: from "Demon02554@aol.com" at Apr 17, 1 09:11:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/95cbd262/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 18 13:46:04 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Tektronik 8560 System In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010417231521.25179bf6@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 17, 1 11:15:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1017 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/38d63515/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 18 13:47:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Pro350/Pro380 Monitor In-Reply-To: <200104180415.f3I4Fh308779@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 17, 1 11:15:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 477 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/a66884f5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 18 13:52:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010418081441.0a6f0fd8@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 18, 1 08:14:41 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 320 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010418/71abd804/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Wed Apr 18 17:56:37 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 References: Message-ID: <3ADE1BA4.9CBA2247@atari-history.com> When using the home phone I hate it that: a: I try to dial a tele# from home and start off with a 9 like at work all day. b: instead of answering the phone and saying "Hello" I answer it "This is Curt" like at work, sheeez!!!! Curt Gene Buckle wrote: > > >> 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. > > > > You've never had to do this? How else do you think you get those > > commercial style microwaves to run for the amount of time that *YOU* want? > > > > What's worse is dialing an IP address on a telephone. I've done this at > least twice. Fortunately for me, I caught it before the phone started to > ring on the other end. :) > > g. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 15:07:51 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: They cook food? I thought they were portable satellite transmitters! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 1:52 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > > > > > > I just had to send this one to the list! > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > > > > > > 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. > > Or in my case, the first thought when someone says 'microwave' is a > communications link, not a food cooker. > > -tony > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Apr 18 09:30:48 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: raised computer floor( Kansas City) Message-ID: The guys across the hall from my office are tearing out a raised computer floor and throwing it away. Does anyone want it? It has 10 fully intact 2' X 2' tiles and about 10 partials, all metal tiles. They are pretty heavy. The tracks and support posts are also available. It's free but shipping may be expensive because of the weight. Please contact me via email and we can discuss shipping modes. Mike McFadden mmcfadden@cmh.edu 816-234-3274 From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Wed Apr 18 16:19:14 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <01Apr18.153259edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > On Wednesday, April 18, 2001, at 02:44 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: > > On April 18, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > >>>> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail > >>>> on your way back to bed. > >> [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* > > Hell, I did this LAST NIGHT. And the night before... > > That, and the last thing that was done prior to going to bed, as > well as the first thing done when I get up in the morning is to check my > email....which explains my posts done at 4-5am > > Jeff > I remember doing this in the '70s and '80s, staying on the modem all night, which may partially account for the length of time it took to get my degree. It's the school's fault, though. I got into this habit from checking into the terminal room at night because there weren't enough seats to go around during the day, plus you didn't have to give up yours as soon as your assignment was done. Habit is still with me to this day. Yes, I have a life, dammit :-) And I'm up at 7 am, too. jbdigriz From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Apr 18 15:36:46 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: raised computer floor( Kansas City) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010418203646.82307.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > The guys across the hall from my office are tearing out a raised computer > floor and throwing it away. Does anyone want it? Got one, thanks; now all I need a place to set it up. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ecloud at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 15:43:35 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: ; from jbdigriz@dragonsweb.org on Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:19:14PM -0400 References: <01Apr18.153259edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <20010418134335.D21984@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 05:19:14PM -0400, James B. DiGriz wrote: > I remember doing this in the '70s and '80s, staying on the modem > all night, which may partially account for the length of time it took to > get my degree. It's the school's fault, though. I got into this habit from > checking into the terminal room at night because there weren't enough > seats to go around during the day, plus you didn't have to give up yours > as soon as your assignment was done. Habit is still with me to this day. > > Yes, I have a life, dammit :-) And I'm up at 7 am, too. Yeah I always check email first thing in the morning, right after I stagger out of bed; and last thing at night. But now I have a good reason because Irina's been sending me 3 emails a day; the one I get from her when I get up is the one she sends right after work that day. But I don't know how you guys can get up so early and stay up so late too. I might as well be dead with less than 8 hours sleep. But as soon as I wake up the first time and start thinking "oh, I bet I have an email from Ira" I can't sleep after that, I gotta get up and go read it. But soon I will set up a terminal in the bedroom, so then maybe I can read it without getting up. What a life... everybody should have as much fun and be as happy as I am now. This piece of news has been about the best all year, I think: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010418/sc/health_laziness_dc_2.html "...he also slammed early rising -- getting up too soon leaves people stressed for the whole the day, he said." -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 18 18:10:08 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Update on dates for VCF East Message-ID: <007401c0c85e$689ffb90$97749a8d@ajp166> From: Sellam Ismail >On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > >> You have to keep in mind the 3rd sunday of each month - that's the MIT >> flea market. > >As long as it's mostly over by 10am then it shouldn't conflict. The two >hamfests out in the Silicon Valley are pretty much wrapped up by 11am >(starting at 6am and 7am). > The MIT FLEA is a big ham/electronic/computer flea and runs to noon solid unless the weather is very bad. It's a big one for the area and a lot of out of state vendors make it. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 18 18:12:48 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: Kim / Commie keypads Message-ID: <007501c0c85e$691d68f0$97749a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Ross Archer >Since I found a suitable keyswitch solution at >Newark Electronics and ordered them tonight, I knew you could find something. ;) You restore my faith. >I suppose the whole computer is worth about >$0.25 in real terms apart from any collectible >or sentimental value. Sheesh indeed. :) It's worth more as it is actually a fairly useful machine as is and easily expanded . Certainly worthwhile to repair or even restore. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 18 18:18:33 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? Message-ID: <007701c0c85e$6a25b130$97749a8d@ajp166> >--- Lee Courtney wrote: >> > Which brings up another interesting point, how many >> > Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? >> >> ...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a 'pure' >> PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages. Me, though I have the SCSI controller in a VAX right now. Any SCSI controller that does MSCP is fine in a PDP-11 and DEC did sell a version that way. >Anyway... if I could find a Qbus SCSI controller for <$200, I'd be >interested. If I could find one for <$50, I'd buy it on the spot. I would too, rare bird at that price! Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 18 18:16:05 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:26 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips Message-ID: <007601c0c85e$699aaf40$97749a8d@ajp166> From: Ethan Dicks >> now i just need the RAM that the schematics have....i believe that it is 2 >> 256x4 RAM chips...if anyone has these or can let me know where i can find >> them could you please let me know > >I've seen places with the 1822s for sale in the past couple of years. It's >not the same, but B.G. Micro has 2102s for <$1 each (the web page from their >online catalog is at http://www.bgmicro.com/pdf/page5.pdf) Look for 2101 or 5101 (moto called them 145101) they are all the same. >You could always use a more modern 2016 or 6264 or such and just tie the >upper address lines to 0. You can scavenge those from old Ethernet cards >and the like. The speed requirements of the 1802 are not harsh. I think >you can get away with 450ns RAM on a 1Mhz design. At 2mhz clock it wants 500ns or so rams, at 1mhz you can use 1uS (1000ns!) parts easily. If the writer cant find any let me know... I have some. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 18 18:34:17 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips References: Message-ID: <002b01c0c860$162ae760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There are some NMOS versions of the 5101, i.e.2101 that are pin-compatible, though they want to be operated at 5 volts, that might do so long as you're not going to run it from a solar cell or a single AAA battery. These occasionally pop up at Jameco, JDR, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 12:33 PM Subject: Re: looking for some old RAM chips > > > > ok...i got my CDP-1802s so that i can build the COSMAC Elf... > > now i just need the RAM that the schematics have....i believe that it is 2 > > 256x4 RAM chips...if anyone has these or can let me know where i can find > > them could you please let me know > > If you're not trying to build an exact replica, but just something that > will work, you could use a more modern SRAM, like a 6264 (8K*8). Such > chips are cheap now. Just tie the unused high-order address lines on the > RAM to ground, leaving 8 low-order ones to connect to the system address > bus. The rest of the circuitry should be essentially unchanged. > > I've done this sort of thing several times when repairing older equipment. > > -tony > > From broth at heathers.stdio.com Wed Apr 18 18:27:26 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: DEC(Matrox) board ID needed Message-ID: <01041819321101.01010@fatty> I have been entering my DEC boards into a database the last few days and have come accross a board I can not ID. It is a Matrox UFG-01. It is dated 1981 and is a quad height board. Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 18 20:12:38 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 References: <01Apr18.153259edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <20010418134335.D21984@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: <3ADE3B86.25CA0C3B@internet1.net> Who is Irina? :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA "Shawn T. Rutledge" wrote: > But now I have a good reason > because Irina's been sending me 3 emails a day; the one I get from her > when I get up is the one she sends right after work that day. From ecloud at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 18 20:54:09 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <3ADE3B86.25CA0C3B@internet1.net>; from fernande@internet1.net on Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:12:38PM -0400 References: <01Apr18.153259edt.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> <20010418134335.D21984@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <3ADE3B86.25CA0C3B@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20010418185409.H21984@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:12:38PM -0400, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Who is Irina? :-) Whoops I forgot which list this was on... it's my long-distance girlfriend, but you probably guessed that anyway. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Apr 18 22:00:50 2001 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 References: <3ADE0B84.BB32CDA7@atari-history.com> Message-ID: <005101c0c87c$f3bca3e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Vendel" To: Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 7:17 AM Subject: Re: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > > > liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > > On 18-Apr-2001 Joe wrote: > > > I just had to send this one to the list! > > > > > > Joe > > > > > >> > > >> 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 > > >> > > >> 1. You just tried to enter your password on the microwave. > > I don't own one. > > > > >> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail > > >> on your way back to bed. > > [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* > > Whew! Boy, and I thought I was the only pathetic soul to do that! Glad to > see I'm in similar company :-) {Boy does my wife get pissed off when I go > to "get a drink of water" and 3 hours later she comes upstairs to my loft > where the computers are to yell at me and ask just how big of a glass of > water am I getting and what site do I need to go to in order to get it, > yikes!} I have a 2 fold solution to this problem. 1) I have a networked computer next to the bed, so I don't have to get up. (Besides, there's a bar fridge next to the bed.) I use VNC to remote control the Win98SE box in the shop that has the modem and Internet Connection Sharing so I can dial in whenever we need to without getting up. 2) My wife has a PC on her side of the bed too. (Julie is fond of IRC and is an online Scrabble addict) She wouldn't let me bring the Vax 6000 into the house itself, but telnet is a wonderful thing, and I have an Emulex terminal server now too :^) Cheers Geoff in Oz From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 19 01:20:42 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: DG tape duplication kicking by butt In-Reply-To: <005101c0c87c$f3bca3e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20010419061954.SZMO24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Dunno if any of you recall, but I found a nifty way of duping tape data under AOS/VS II on MV hardware last year. Something like: "Type/nodisplay @mtb0 filename" The purpose is to binary duplicate the info on the tape to a file on hard disk indiscriminately in order to reverse the process and produce a copy of the tape ( I have only one 9 track drive ). My problem is that the system insists on displaying every displayable byte to the host terminal and beeping at the non-displayable bytes. I'd like this not to happen but can't remember the secret, undocumented syntax for this command. Help/v type does not give me the info. Neither do any of the other manuals I have. Does anyone have a fix for me? I can't dup a 20mb 9 track that beeps all night long and in which destination I have no confidence. I ran across the correct syntax/commands some months ago and just can't remember what I'm supposed to enter to get this result. S@!T. Your help is very much appreciated, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 19 01:29:38 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: raised computer floor( Kansas City) In-Reply-To: <20010418203646.82307.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20010419062439.TCYJ24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> I'd like one, but no kidding, my six-foot tall friends keep injuring themselves on the wierd protuberances jutting from my already low ceiling. It would not be a good move to install a raised floor - my insurance company would complain loudly.... Grin. In <20010418203646.82307.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com>, on 04/19/01 at 02:29 AM, Ethan Dicks said: >--- "McFadden, Mike" wrote: >> The guys across the hall from my office are tearing out a raised computer >> floor and throwing it away. Does anyone want it? >Got one, thanks; now all I need a place to set it up. >-ethan >===== >Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com >The original webpage address is still going away. The >permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ >See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 19 01:32:44 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips In-Reply-To: <002b01c0c860$162ae760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20010419062754.TFHP24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Check your supply and signal voltages and cut traces/reroute power or things might be interesting. Regards, Jeff In <002b01c0c860$162ae760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>, on 04/19/01 at 02:32 AM, "Richard Erlacher" said: >> If you're not trying to build an exact replica, but just something that >> will work, you could use a more modern SRAM, like a 6264 (8K*8). Such >> chips are cheap now. Just tie the unused high-order address lines on the >> RAM to ground, leaving 8 low-order ones to connect to the system address >> bus. The rest of the circuitry should be essentially unchanged. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 19 01:20:42 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: DG tape duplication kicking by butt In-Reply-To: <005101c0c87c$f3bca3e0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20010419064357.TQJV24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Dunno if any of you recall, but I found a nifty way of duping tape data under AOS/VS II on MV hardware last year. Something like: "Type/nodisplay @mtb0 filename" The purpose is to binary duplicate the info on the tape to a file on hard disk indiscriminately in order to reverse the process and produce a copy of the tape ( I have only one 9 track drive ). My problem is that the system insists on displaying every displayable byte to the host terminal and beeping at the non-displayable bytes. I'd like this not to happen but can't remember the secret, undocumented syntax for this command. Help/v type does not give me the info. Neither do any of the other manuals I have. Does anyone have a fix for me? I can't dup a 20mb 9 track that beeps all night long and in which destination I have no confidence. I ran across the correct syntax/commands some months ago and just can't remember what I'm supposed to enter to get this result. S@!T. Your help is very much appreciated, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Apr 19 01:37:53 2001 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: small TCP/IP package installation question (in RT11) Message-ID: OK. Thanks for all the advise. I am using PUTR too, of course. Unfortunately, the firewall of our company does not allow FTP.... Lucky me that I bought the RT-11 Freeware CD-ROM from Tim. On it is the small FTP and Telnet package as well, in a .DSK and as a directory with the seperate files in it. Saves some download time. > BTW, one word of advice, follow the instructions to very > carefully, you'll save yourself a lot of headaches! So, I guess I will encounter the same pitfalls. That is okay, in such a scenario you learn the most. Struggling with some problems is half the fun, isn't it? Then there is always ClassicCmp .... -Henk. From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Apr 19 02:40:59 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: What's DEC doing at Data General site...? References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> I've put a few more DEC photos (http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/dec/dec.htm) on our DG site(!), mostly of the PDP-10, and some other new photos in the main DG nostalgia that shows the DG equivalent Nova pedestal "form factor"(http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/nostalgia.htm). I have never seen an actual 8/I or Nova pedestal system in person and do not know anybody who has managed to collect one. Are they even functional? A figment only of marketing? But they sure are "cool". And DEC used a stylized print of the 8/I on some of its manuals in the late 60s and early 70s because it looked so good. Bruce Ray bkr@WildHareComputers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Eros" To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 10:09 AM Subject: Re: What's DEC doing at Data General site...? > I was wondering the same thing -- I'd _love_ to have one of those in my > office!! > > -- Tony > > At 08:42 AM 4/16/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > >--- Bruce Ray wrote: > > > G'day DEC'heads- > > > > > > While updating our Data General-oriented web site I've added a new DEC > > photo > > > section to the web site just for nostalgia sake: > > > > > > http://www.simulogics.com/nostalgia/DEC/dec.htm > > > >Nice shots. I recognize a bunch of them, but I've never _seen_ a > >pedestal-mounted PDP-8/i (I've had a rack mounted one since high-school). > > > >Has anyone here ever seen that -8/i variant? It looks right off the set > >of Space: 1999. > > > >-ethan > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From mcruse at acm.org Thu Apr 19 03:27:59 2001 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: C compiler for Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> Hi, Rumour has it that a C compiler for AOS or AOS/VS on a Data General 32 bit Eclipse existed. There are even hints of a port of GCC to this machine. Does anyone have any either of these compilers for Data General equipment? I'd really like to be able to port some stuff to my MV/9300. Thanks, Mike From kebabthesheep at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 04:22:41 2001 From: kebabthesheep at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: data book rescue (nearly) Message-ID: <20010419092241.27560.qmail@web12304.mail.yahoo.com> The TV-fiddling part of my group here at work just moved house, and as is usual, when moving offices they dumped stuff. Specifically about 50-60 data books mainly covering philips devices. There are quite a few interesting ones as well covering all manner of bizarre video processors, and well as mundane stuff like diodes, mosfets, power controllers, memory ics, semi-custom gate arrays - you name it :) Looks like the future got a bit brighter w.r.t. to finding out data on those obscure devices you find in monitors, and old computers :) I'll make some sort of list when i've got them all out of my office - pity my only means of transport atm is a 40 year old brit bike... Dave. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From f.papa at mcmspa.it Thu Apr 19 06:49:25 2001 From: f.papa at mcmspa.it (Fabio Papa (MCE)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: IBM 615x disks needed! Message-ID: <003d01c0c8c6$c96da5e0$116b0180@papa> Hi all, we are in desperate need of at least one (or more if possible) disk for an IBM RT-PC model 6150/6151. 115Mb or 310Mb models only, because of software space requisites. If you know where I can find some, please reply to this message. Thanks in advance! Fabio -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010419/50b88118/attachment.html From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Apr 13 18:21:07 2001 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: HP 98730 DaVinci Framebuffer ? Message-ID: <20010414022106.A229@sd160.local> Hello! Does anyone have any docs or information on a HP 98730 (TurboSRX?) framebuffer ? To make a long story short, I have one of those boxes and it's really usefull in showing it to normal PC users that "Oh, that's just a graphics card" (it's a HP minirack module, about 30cm high and weighs around 20 to 40 kg). It's a *real* framebuffer :-) The problem is that I have a DIO-I card 98720 (it's the same size as a normal DIO-II card but it doesn't have all the connectors) and it's connected via the LGB (Local Graphics Bus) to the 98730 but I can't get X working, neither in hp-ux or NetBSD. Normal ITE console works but graphics won't. So, do I need something else than the 98720 card ? I've only read about cards like VDMA (virtual DMA) and like. If someone can help me out here I'd really appreciate it.. -- jht From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Apr 19 07:30:22 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? In-Reply-To: <007701c0c85e$6a25b130$97749a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010419073022.0087bdf0@ubanproductions.com> Can someone please create a list of PDP11 UNIBUS compatible SCSI controller boards and manufacturers? --tom At 07:18 PM 4/18/01 -0400, you wrote: >>--- Lee Courtney wrote: >>> > Which brings up another interesting point, how many >>> > Hobbyists are running any of their PDP-11's with SCSI controllers? >>> >>> ...or how many would like to? (My hand is raised). While not being a >'pure' >>> PDP-11, it does offer some significant advantages. > > >Me, though I have the SCSI controller in a VAX right now. Any SCSI >controller >that does MSCP is fine in a PDP-11 and DEC did sell a version that way. > >>Anyway... if I could find a Qbus SCSI controller for <$200, I'd be >>interested. If I could find one for <$50, I'd buy it on the spot. > > >I would too, rare bird at that price! > >Allison > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 19 09:00:55 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: HP 98730 DaVinci Framebuffer ? In-Reply-To: <20010414022106.A229@sd160.local> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010419090055.4787e432@mailhost.intellistar.net> Jarkko, I can't help you with the software and docs but I have a 98730 also. I thought it was just a card when I bought it on E-bay but was real surprised when the seller wanted $40+ to ship it! I've opened it up and checked it out inside. It's quite a piece of work! I don't have the cable of the interface card for mine so it's just gathering dust at the moment. Joe At 02:21 AM 4/14/01 +0300, Jarkko wrote: >Hello! > >Does anyone have any docs or information on a HP 98730 (TurboSRX?) >framebuffer ? To make a long story short, I have one of those boxes and >it's really usefull in showing it to normal PC users that "Oh, that's >just a graphics card" (it's a HP minirack module, about 30cm high and >weighs around 20 to 40 kg). It's a *real* framebuffer :-) > >The problem is that I have a DIO-I card 98720 (it's the same size as >a normal DIO-II card but it doesn't have all the connectors) and it's >connected via the LGB (Local Graphics Bus) to the 98730 but I can't get >X working, neither in hp-ux or NetBSD. Normal ITE console works but >graphics won't. > >So, do I need something else than the 98720 card ? I've only read about >cards like VDMA (virtual DMA) and like. > >If someone can help me out here I'd really appreciate it.. > >-- >jht > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Apr 19 07:57:44 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: IBM 615x disks needed! Message-ID: In a message dated 4/19/01 8:07:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, f.papa@mcmspa.it writes: << Hi all, we are in desperate need of at least one (or more if possible) disk for an IBM RT-PC model 6150/6151. 115Mb or 310Mb models only, because of software space requisites. If you know where I can find some, please reply to this message. Thanks in advance! >>\ i understand it's an ESDI drive so if you have some PS/2s you can use one of those drives. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 08:37:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: looking for some old RAM chips In-Reply-To: <20010419062754.TFHP24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010419133722.27688.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Check your supply and signal voltages and cut traces/reroute power or > things might be interesting. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > In <002b01c0c860$162ae760$9cc762d8@idcomm.com>, on 04/19/01 > at 02:32 AM, "Richard Erlacher" said: > > >> If you're not trying to build an exact replica, but just something that > >> will work, you could use a more modern SRAM, like a 6264 (8K*8)... In the case of the 1802, that's not an issue. The "original" SRAM for the Elf is a pair of 1822s - CMOS, single supply voltage (unlike early EPROMS (1702) and DRAMS (4116 and earlier). Due to the fact that most hobbyist 1802 designs had some TTL (like the cool TIL311 displays in the original P-E article and on the Quest Elf), they were run with a regulated +5VDC supply. A 2016 or 6264 or similar SRAM will work just fine as is; add a latch for the upper address bits to use it all. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dburrows at netpath.net Thu Apr 19 08:37:13 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? Message-ID: <06f001c0c8d6$040bc290$cf241bce@L166> >Can someone please create a list of PDP11 UNIBUS compatible SCSI >controller boards and manufacturers? > >--tom A quick list of the ones I have used: Emulex UC17 UC18 CMD The following suffix's applies to all their models. /T = Tape only /M = Disk only /TM = Disk and Tape CDU700 CDU710 CDU712 same as 710 but has Differential also CDU720 CDU722 same as 720 with differential TD Systems Viking UDT disk and tape UDO disk only UTO Tape only Dilog They did a couple but I can't think on the models offhand Dan From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 08:53:30 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Low ceilings and other impediments (was Re: raised computer floor( Kansas City)) In-Reply-To: <20010419062439.TCYJ24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010419135330.2155.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I'd like one, but no kidding, my six-foot tall friends keep injuring > themselves on the wierd protuberances jutting from my already low ceiling. > It would not be a good move to install a raised floor - my insurance > company would complain loudly.... Grin. I used to run a small machine room in the basement of my mother's typing business. It was where I ran my RT-11 consulting gig - it was so short down there that the only place to put a rack was in a spot that had once been an airduct, but was boarded over. I had to tip the empty rack into this space where the joist had been removed for a span of about three feet and boxed in. The top of the rack nested in the box of 2x8s with less than a handspan's clearance, side-to-side, but it fit. I didn't have to duck, but my housemate, who helped me paint the joists to keep the dust down, was tall enough that he stood with his head between the joists. The worst part of this place was that the cold air would spill down the back stairs in the winter. I had to work wrapped up in a blanket. At one point, it got so cold that the LA-180 was blowing internal fuses because the carriage lubricant was too viscous and the carriage motor was drawing too many amps. I'm sure it was below manufacturer's recommended operating temp. It was a nice little data cave until the hairdresser's shop next door plugged up the sewer line - the first thing to happen was the rain water backed up; then, after the plumber started messing around, the sewage backed up. I went from 6" of mostly fresh water to 2" of sludge. I didn't work much down there after that. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 19 09:12:18 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: IBM 615x disks needed! In-Reply-To: <003d01c0c8c6$c96da5e0$116b0180@papa> Message-ID: <20010419140653.EBXR24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Computer Parts Barn 16 London Rd. Asheville, NC, U.S.A 28803 828-274-5963 Give Ed Kirby a call at the above number. He has several RT machines and cal likely provide the drives and other parts you may need/want. Regards, Jeff In <003d01c0c8c6$c96da5e0$116b0180@papa>, on 04/19/01 at 10:12 AM, "Fabio Papa \(MCE\)" said: >Hi all, >we are in desperate need of at least one (or more if possible) disk for >an IBM RT-PC model 6150/6151. 115Mb or 310Mb models only, because of >software space requisites. If you know where I can find some, please >reply to this message. >Thanks in advance! >Fabio >-- -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Apr 19 10:18:13 2001 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: C compiler for Data General Eclipse References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> Message-ID: <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> Mike - DG supported 'C' on its 32-bit MV computer line, and 3rd party vendors provided 'C' for the 16-bit Eclipse line. Please contact me offline for further details... (bkr@SimuLogics.com or bkr@WildHareComputers.com) Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Cruse" To: Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 2:27 AM Subject: C compiler for Data General Eclipse > Hi, > > Rumour has it that a C compiler for AOS or AOS/VS on a Data General 32 bit > Eclipse existed. There are even hints of a port of GCC to this machine. > > Does anyone have any either of these compilers for Data General equipment? > I'd really like to be able to port some stuff to my MV/9300. > > Thanks, > > Mike From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 19 10:38:13 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Singer/Link flight simulators Message-ID: Coincidentally, I learned the other day, from someone that used to install them, that some Link simulators were built around SDS Sigma 5's and 7's... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 19 11:22:20 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Singer/Link flight simulators In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The 737-200 and 727 that I worked on used Honeywell DMP-124s for the simulation and a Varian Data Systems machine for the video on the 727 (could display a max of 1024 *pixels* at one time) and some kind of Sperry box for the 737-200 (Vital I or II, memory is fading) g. On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Will Jennings wrote: > Coincidentally, I learned the other day, from someone that used to install > them, that some Link simulators were built around SDS Sigma 5's and 7's... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From zwj88zww at 371.net Fri Apr 20 00:56:40 2001 From: zwj88zww at 371.net (zwj) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process Message-ID: <200104191653.LAA81680@opal.tseinc.com> Introducing a new concept on advanced garbage treatment process, and licensing patents For details, please reference the web site: http://zwj5382.3322.net http://zwj5382.163.net The inventor would like to assign exclusive patent license to anyone who is interested in patented advanced garbage treatment process technology. For patent license, please contact the inventor via E-mail: zwj88zww@371.net From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Apr 19 12:23:14 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Singer/Link flight simulators Message-ID: Yeah, I've enjoyed those pix... He said this was for a 747.. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From tony.eros at machm.org Thu Apr 19 12:40:08 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process In-Reply-To: <200104191653.LAA81680@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010419133539.09163420@mail.njd.concentric.com> Gee, I wonder if it can help to reduce spam? Or maybe (since this appears to come from the PRC) they can use this process to remove those pesky bloodstains from Tienanmen Square next time they decide to kill a few of their own people. I'm feeling really crotchety this afternoon... -- Tony At 12:56 AM 4/20/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Introducing a new concept on advanced garbage treatment process, and >licensing patents >For details, please reference the web site: >http://zwj5382.3322.net >http://zwj5382.163.net >The inventor would like to assign exclusive patent license to anyone who >is interested in patented advanced garbage treatment process >technology. For patent license, please contact the inventor via E-mail: >zwj88zww@371.net From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Apr 19 13:29:57 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box Message-ID: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> Hi, I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? Ram -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010419/a316180d/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 19 13:17:04 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010419133539.09163420@mail.njd.concentric.com> References: <200104191653.LAA81680@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: >I'm feeling really crotchety this afternoon... Nothing a double expresso and a few packs of twinkies wouldn't cure I bet. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 19 14:00:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box (Ram Meenakshisundaram) References: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: <15071.13799.148968.716438@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 19, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users > from logging into my machine. I dont want to run in single-user > mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my > machine? Yes, it's easy. All network-based services like that usually have their server-side components run by a supervisory program ("superserver") called "inetd". Inetd listens on all the ports that services are registered for, and when a connection request comes in, inetd accepts the connection, starts the required server binary, and basically hands it the socket. From then on, that connection is handled by the server binary for that particular service. This whole operation is handled by a config file called /etc/inetd.conf. It's got one line per service, and each line has many fields that control different things. The first field is the name of the service (telnet, ftp, etc). You can comment out services in that file by inserting a "#" in the very beginning of the line in question. To achieve the results you want, I would comment out the following lines: telnet (handles incoming telnet connections) ftp (handles incoming ftp connections) login (handles incoming rlogin connections) shell (handles incoming rsh and rcp connections) I hope this helps. -Dave McGuire From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 19 14:04:21 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> from Ram Meenakshisundaram at "Apr 19, 2001 02:29:57 pm" Message-ID: <200104191904.MAA17613@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? Edit /etc/inetd.conf and comment out the shell, login, exec, telnet and ftp lines. As a matter of fact, comment everything else out as well. Eric From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 19 14:14:58 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: do a touch /etc/nologin g. On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > > Ram > From jss at ou.edu Thu Apr 19 14:21:57 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process In-Reply-To: <200104191653.LAA81680@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200104191653.LAA81680@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <987708117.3adf3ad5b1ff5@email.ou.edu> Ha! Snort! How about *my* patented gargage treatment process? Here is the algorithm in C: void proctrash (struct trash *t) { if (t->type & TT_COMPUTER_CLASSIC) give(t, "jss@ou.edu"); } -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 19 14:28:01 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >I'm feeling really crotchety this afternoon... > > Nothing a double expresso and a few packs of twinkies wouldn't cure I bet. > Well, the espresso sounds good, but you have to watch those Twinkies. Remember, they were the basis for a successful murder defense in San Francisco some years back. - don From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 15:21:28 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <200104191904.MAA17613@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Apr 19, 2001 12:04:21 PM Message-ID: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > > Edit /etc/inetd.conf and comment out the shell, login, exec, telnet and ftp > lines. As a matter of fact, comment everything else out as well. > > Eric Comment everything out and the question becomes, is the box still usable? Also it may be desirable to leave either telnet or ssh running, but move them to a non-standard port. That way he can access his own system remotely. Zane From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 19 15:16:05 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Tectronic Oscillators!!! (Univac site) References: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> <15071.13799.148968.716438@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <000b01c0c90d$90964960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Forgive me for making some fun, but found this interesting WWW site covering a Univac installation. It was apparently set up by the grandson of a Univac scapper who had the presence of mind to see that there was some neat stuff left there, not just a bunch of shaped metal at so-much a ton, and set up a website. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/6241/univac.html http://www.geocities.com/saturn25.geo/UNI2.html I like the picture of the documentation library. This kind of reminded me of the scene in "The Thing" when they finally find the spaceship in the ice. (Huh?) John A. From Mark.DesMarais at avocent.com Thu Apr 19 15:27:16 2001 From: Mark.DesMarais at avocent.com (DesMarais, Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Working Data General One laptop with spares to a good home Message-ID: Hi! I have a DGone laptop in functional condition- two floppy drives, better LCD screen, max memory, power supply, hard carrying case. Only thing that doesn't work (as far as I know) is the battery pack. Also multiple printers, ribbons, thermal paper, a spare screen, keyboard, maybe a floppy and expansion port thingie, system boards, etc. I also have Wordstar that runs on the DGone, a few boot (MSDOS) disks, and GWBasic. Free or cost of shipping (Northboro, MA) if I get one interested party. If I have more than one, it'll be an auction to see who wants it most. If I don't hear from anyone, well, I'm afraid its dumpster time. Please email me- mark.desmarais@avocent.com. thanks Markd From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Apr 19 15:32:24 2001 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 3:28 PM Subject: Re: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process > > Nothing a double expresso and a few packs of twinkies wouldn't cure I bet. > > > > Well, the espresso sounds good, but you have to watch those > Twinkies. Remember, they were the basis for a successful murder defense > in San Francisco some years back. Ahh, the twinkie defense! I remember that. I wonder if the obsessive/compulsive collecting of antique computer equipment would work as a defense? "Yes your honor, he was trying open my vintage, mint-in-box Vectrex so I clubbed him over the head with my Microvax 2000. It had a handle and all, and I looooovee my vectrex...... If the full height hard drive hadn't been installed he'd be alive today. From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Apr 19 16:10:47 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: small TCP/IP package installation question (in RT11) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Gooijen H wrote: > Unfortunately, the firewall of our company does not allow FTP.... The solution to that is Kermit. Ckermit has a telnet client built in and can then transfer files over the connection. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 16:13:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Tectronic Oscillators!!! (Univac site) In-Reply-To: <000b01c0c90d$90964960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 19, 2001 04:16:05 PM Message-ID: <200104192113.OAA28028@shell1.aracnet.com> > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/6241/univac.html > http://www.geocities.com/saturn25.geo/UNI2.html > > I like the picture of the documentation library. > This kind of reminded me of the scene in "The Thing" when they finally find > the spaceship in the ice. (Huh?) Took some looking to find the pic of the "Documentation Library". Makes you wonder what else is laying around in old warehouses! I got a kick out of that "Tectronic Ocillators" pic. I've not seen that many Tek Scopes of that vintage since the early 80's when my Dad and I used to go to the "Tek Country Store". That "????" pic looks suspiciously like a panel for doing programming by hardwiring the program. Zane From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 19 16:15:37 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 19, 2001 01:21:28 pm" Message-ID: <200104192115.OAA20209@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > > > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > > > > Edit /etc/inetd.conf and comment out the shell, login, exec, telnet and ftp > > lines. As a matter of fact, comment everything else out as well. > > > > Eric > > Comment everything out and the question becomes, is the box still usable? I've got everything on this box commented out. We start sshd from a script in rc2.d/. All commenting out things does is stop inetd from starting any server daemons when a port is opened. > Also it may be desirable to leave either telnet or ssh running, but move > them to a non-standard port. That way he can access his own system > remotely. True. I guess I just assume everyone runs ssh now. :) I'd recommend against telent or rlogin regardless of what port you use. Just too dangerous to have plain text passwords traveling over ethernet, even if it never gets outside of the company firewall. You never can tell if that windows box next door has a packet sniffer. Eric From bill at cs.scranton.edu Thu Apr 19 16:17:48 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > > > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > > > > Edit /etc/inetd.conf and comment out the shell, login, exec, telnet and ftp > > lines. As a matter of fact, comment everything else out as well. > > > > Eric > > Comment everything out and the question becomes, is the box still usable? > > Also it may be desirable to leave either telnet or ssh running, but move > them to a non-standard port. That way he can access his own system > remotely. > maybe I'm just being dense, but wouldn't the easiest solution be to just not give others accounts on your box?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From alex at linuxhacker.org Thu Apr 19 16:26:29 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <200104191904.MAA17613@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > On April 19, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > Edit /etc/inetd.conf and comment out the shell, login, exec, telnet and ftp > lines. As a matter of fact, comment everything else out as well. Does Solaris inetd automatically reread /etc/inetd.conf? If not, you'll also have to kill -HUP the inetd process (or reboot the machine). -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Apr 19 16:33:39 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Need help on DEC cards & drives Message-ID: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> Hi; I need some help IDing some DEC cards; What is a PMAG-E & a PMAD A used on? How can I identify the quantity of VRAM on the PMAG-E? What is the small memory card on the same? All the slots are full. How big is a RF35-EA drive? RZ25, RZ26 & RZ28? How much memory on a M7622-AV, a M7622-AP and a DataRam 63015 (180010002)? These are in the VAX 4000/200. How do you open the case on the 4000 to see if it has any drives? I got the front panel open. Is an Emulex QD2110202 a Qbus ESDI or MFM drive controller? What is a Microtech MT CIQBA+? How much ram does a M7608 BS have What is an AH-132-06? 6 wide card, prob. Unibus. One is marked CPU Nissho. What is DEC MS02-AA memory used on and what size are they? Thanks for all help. If anyone is interested in purchasing any of this please contact me offline at whoagiii@aol.com. I will ship overseas. Paxton Portland, OR PS Also available is an MT external case with an Exabyte 8200 tape in it, a couple SZ 12X (an LA & an EA) Drive cases for 3100s, a Todd SCSI 1 CD tower with 4 Hitachi CDs (came in with the DEC) and a storage works drive tower with no sleds or drives. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 19 16:33:30 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: Re: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box (Bill Gunshannon) References: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15071.22954.394504.721910@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 19, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > maybe I'm just being dense, but wouldn't the easiest solution be to just > not give others accounts on your box?? That approach assumes un-guessable passwords. It's trivial to write a program that iterates through all possible character combinations. Sure, it might take weeks, or even months...but then they're in. -Dave McGuire From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Apr 19 16:37:07 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the _second_ oldest Commodore club. I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? Cheers, Mark G. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 19 16:43:38 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: Re: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box (Eric J. Korpela) References: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> <200104192115.OAA20209@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <15071.23562.924498.673129@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 19, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > True. I guess I just assume everyone runs ssh now. :) I'd recommend against > telent or rlogin regardless of what port you use. Just too dangerous to > have plain text passwords traveling over ethernet, even if it never > gets outside of the company firewall. You never can tell if that windows box > next door has a packet sniffer. Not everyone runs ssh nowadays. For networks of more than a handful of machines, it just doesn't seem to scale well enough, as nice as it is. For larger networks a central network authentication system like Kerberos is much more suitable, in my opinion. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 19 16:45:33 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: Re: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box (Alex Holden) References: <200104191904.MAA17613@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <15071.23677.764458.521909@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 19, Alex Holden wrote: > Does Solaris inetd automatically reread /etc/inetd.conf? If not, you'll > also have to kill -HUP the inetd process (or reboot the machine). Crap, I forgot to mention that. Here I was thinking I was being cool by delivering a nice complete description of everything, and I go and screw the pooch by forgetting the most important last step. I think I'm gonna grab my cat and go back to bed. -D. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 19 16:46:37 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:27 2005 Subject: Tectronic Oscillators!!! (Univac site) In-Reply-To: <000b01c0c90d$90964960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> <15071.13799.148968.716438@phaduka.neurotica.com> <000b01c0c90d$90964960$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: I've gotr a small board and test rig that came out of the upstate NY UNIVAC plant he mentions on the site. As pointed out on the one page, a user by the name of Frozen-Planet has been selling bits and pieces pulled from the plant on eBay for quite a while. Jeff >Forgive me for making some fun, but found this interesting WWW site >covering a Univac installation. >It was apparently set up by the grandson of a Univac scapper who had the >presence of mind to see that there was some neat stuff left there, not just >a >bunch of shaped metal at so-much a ton, and set up a website. > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/6241/univac.html > http://www.geocities.com/saturn25.geo/UNI2.html > >I like the picture of the documentation library. >This kind of reminded me of the scene in "The Thing" when they finally find >the spaceship in the ice. (Huh?) > >John A. -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Apr 19 16:47:03 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Anatomy of a VAX 6000-420 Message-ID: <3ADF5CD7.60BEE6A7@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, as promised here is my photo series on systematically disassembling a VAX 6000-420. I do not envy you poor folks who thought simply taking out the card cages and the cab kit would allow you to somehow put this back together to a working machine. Has anyone ever actually done this? Anyway, here is my VAXian anatomy page: http://aurora.regenstrief.org/VAX/anatomy BTW: I (and a few friends) am still looking for advice on how exactly to convert the power unit so as to hook a VAX 6420 on 110 V houshold power. Either 110 V single phase or 240 V 2-phase would do. I have done electronics in my youth, but I have no clue how to go about it and don't want to go trial and error :-) Any help is appreciated. regards -Gunther From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Apr 19 16:50:10 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box References: Message-ID: <3ADF5D92.51B6B0B2@olf.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > do a touch /etc/nologin > > g. > > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > > > > Ram > > This wont work as nologin is just a message file (similar to motd) whenever the system is about to shutdown. Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Apr 19 16:52:57 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box References: Message-ID: <3ADF5E39.D8509BBD@olf.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > maybe I'm just being dense, but wouldn't the easiest solution be to just > not give others accounts on your box?? > > bill > Yes that would work, but if you are on a network running NIS (YP), with several other users, it wont as NIS maintains the accounts not my local machine... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 19 16:58:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: Longest running user group in history? (Mark Gregory) References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <15071.24463.514815.666000@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 19, Mark Gregory wrote: > Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of > Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years > of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years > they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users > group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members > actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET > Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. > Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the > _second_ oldest Commodore club. Impressive! > I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older > clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic > and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? DECUS? -Dave McGuire From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Apr 19 16:56:39 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box References: <200104191904.MAA17613@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> <15071.23677.764458.521909@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3ADF5F17.D9E65CBC@olf.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 19, Alex Holden wrote: > > Does Solaris inetd automatically reread /etc/inetd.conf? If not, you'll > > also have to kill -HUP the inetd process (or reboot the machine). > > Crap, I forgot to mention that. Here I was thinking I was being cool > by delivering a nice complete description of everything, and I go and > screw the pooch by forgetting the most important last step. > > I think I'm gonna grab my cat and go back to bed. > > -D. Thanks for all the responses. I should have known about inetd. The thing that confused me was that I thought inetd handled both incoming and outgoing. Brilliant solution! Now I can prevent other developers from logging into my machine and compiling their source code on mine. Hate when that happens.... Solaris does not reread the inetd.conf file so you do have to kill it to restart it... Thanks again, Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Apr 19 17:01:55 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: healyzh@aracnet.com "Re: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box" (Apr 19, 13:21) References: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <10104192301.ZM22743@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 19, 13:21, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > I have a Solaris 2.6 Ultra-10 at work and I want to prevent users from logging into my machine. I dont want > > > to run in single-user mode. Is there a way to disable rlogin or telnet over to my machine? > > > > Edit /etc/inetd.conf and comment out the shell, login, exec, telnet and ftp > > lines. As a matter of fact, comment everything else out as well. > > > > Eric > > Comment everything out and the question becomes, is the box still usable? > > Also it may be desirable to leave either telnet or ssh running, but move > them to a non-standard port. That way he can access his own system > remotely. Security by obscurity is no security at all. OK, in this case it may be more a question of convenience, but if Ram has the access (ie, access to the root account) to do all these things, he would be better to either do as Gene suggested and "touch /etc/nologin" (or put some text in it: the contents are printed by login before it closes the connection), or to do it properly and run tcpwrappers, with suitably set up /etc/hosts.allow and /etc/hosts.deny files -- then he can control who can connect, from where, and using which protocols (telnet, rlogin, rsh/rcp, ftp, ssh, etc). If you *are* thinking of security, remember that inetd only controls some network services -- some, like SMTP, HTTP, SNMP and others, normally run as daemons in their own right. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Apr 19 17:15:13 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> from "Mark Gregory" at Apr 19, 2001 03:37:07 PM Message-ID: <200104192215.QAA23872@calico.litterbox.com> I'm betting some DECUS LUG will hold the honor, personally. My impression is DECUS has been around since the PDP days, although I didn't join until the hobbiest VMS licence came out, so I wouldn't know. *snip* > I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older > clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic > and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > > Cheers, > Mark G. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Apr 19 17:15:42 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box References: <200104192021.NAA26661@shell1.aracnet.com> <10104192301.ZM22743@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3ADF638E.A98849EA@olf.com> Pete Turnbull wrote: > Security by obscurity is no security at all. OK, in this case it may be > more a question of convenience, but if Ram has the access (ie, access to > the root account) to do all these things, he would be better to either do > as Gene suggested and "touch /etc/nologin" (or put some text in it: the > contents are printed by login before it closes the connection), or to do it > properly and run tcpwrappers, with suitably set up /etc/hosts.allow and > /etc/hosts.deny files -- then he can control who can connect, from where, > and using which protocols (telnet, rlogin, rsh/rcp, ftp, ssh, etc). > > If you *are* thinking of security, remember that inetd only controls some > network services -- some, like SMTP, HTTP, SNMP and others, normally run as > daemons in their own right. > I forgot about tcpwrappers. Havent used that in years. We used this on our internet gateway. This isnt about security, but to prevent annoying developers who bog down my machine (and doing so prevent me from developing my applications). The inetd solution is very quick and easy for me. Installing tcpwrappers and managing that would be way too much work for me. But thanks for the suggestion.... Ram One happy camper.... -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From mranalog at home.com Thu Apr 19 17:20:16 2001 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Neon logic circuits Message-ID: <3ADF64A0.3D908159@home.com> Hi all, Two years ago I put up a ZIP file (lamp.zip) containing scans of pages from a manual showing how to build logic circuits using neon lamps. I just made the file available for a short time. Now someone has found the name of the file from the classiccmp archive and has ask me for a copy of the file. I can't find it on any of the computers I have up and running, or on any of my back-up CDs. Would someone that grabbed the file two years ago, please send it to me or put it up so I can grab it. Thanks. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA ========================================= From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Apr 19 18:25:23 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: TK70 / CompacTape II anywhere? Message-ID: <3ADF73E3.C6E82F6D@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, where do you think one could buy new or used CompacTape II (TK70) tape cardridges? It looks as if they're nowhere to find on the net. Well, I suppose one could use the new 24 GB DLT cardriges, but they are terribly expensive just for the poor VAX 6000 hobbyist. I and my fellow VAXhaxer appreciate any help, thanks -Gunther From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 18:24:51 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Need help on DEC cards & drives In-Reply-To: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at Apr 19, 2001 05:33:39 PM Message-ID: <200104192324.QAA00781@shell1.aracnet.com> > I need some help IDing some DEC cards; > > What is a PMAG-E & a PMAD A used on? How can I identify the quantity of VRAM > on the PMAG-E? What is the small memory card on the same? All the slots are > full. They're Turbochannel cards, so I think they can be used in VAXstation 4000's (except the VLC), DECstations, and DEC 3000's. > How big is a RF35-EA drive? RZ25, RZ26 & RZ28? RZ25 ~500MB RZ26 ~1GB RZ28 ~2GB > How much memory on a M7622-AV, a M7622-AP and a DataRam 63015 (180010002)? > These are in the VAX 4000/200. How do you open the case on the 4000 to see if > it has any drives? I got the front panel open. M7622-AV I think 8MB for MicroVAX III M7622-AP Ditto DataRam 63015 Based on the 630 I'm wondering if this isn't for a MV II. > > Is an Emulex QD2110202 a Qbus ESDI or MFM drive controller? QD21 ESDI for PDP-11 or VAX > What is a Microtech MT CIQBA+? Sounds very cool, it's a MTI CI Q-Bus Adapter > How much ram does a M7608 BS have 4-Mbyte RAM for KA630 (MicroVAX II) > What is an AH-132-06? 6 wide card, prob. Unibus. One is marked CPU Nissho. No idea. > What is DEC MS02-AA memory used on and what size are they? IIRC, they go in DECstation 3100's and are something like 2MB. > PS Also available is an MT external case with an Exabyte 8200 tape in it, a > couple SZ 12X (an LA & an EA) Drive cases for 3100s, a Todd SCSI 1 CD tower > with 4 Hitachi CDs (came in with the DEC) and a storage works drive tower > with no sleds or drives. What model is the StorageWorks tower? BA350 or BA356? Zane From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Apr 19 18:27:26 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: FTP, Firewalls and telnet In-Reply-To: from Bill Gunshannon at "Apr 19, 2001 05:10:47 pm" Message-ID: <200104192327.f3JNRQh26285@bg-tc-ppp1135.monmouth.com> > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Gooijen H wrote: > > > Unfortunately, the firewall of our company does not allow FTP.... > > The solution to that is Kermit. Ckermit has a telnet client built > in and can then transfer files over the connection. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Most firewalls block inbound ftp, but not outbound. If they block outbound ftp they probably block telnet as well. The old sysadmin way around this (which goes on in a lot of small companies is some geek sets up a linux box with telnet and ftp above port 7000... which fully bypasses the firewall if they don't have a good security admin. The best way to do this stuff is with ssh and scp anyway. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Apr 19 18:59:59 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: I membered... (Was: Re: DG tape duplication kicking by butt) In-Reply-To: <20010419061954.SZMO24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <20010419235700.CYWG24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> To anyone who wants to know, I remembered the syntax and command to dup a tape to a file and vice-versa on DG MV gear under AOS/VS II. First, my first tape drive is named MTB0. Your's might be a different name like MTC or something. The Command is: XEQ DISPLAY/NOLIST @mtb0:0 AOSBOOTLOADER.img will dump the first tape 'file' of the unlabeled tape to the file aosbootloader.img Substitute @mtb0:1 and it will dump the second file etc. The /NOLIST switch keeps DISPLAY from showing all the data to the terminal before writing to tape. This saves TONS of time on a 19.2kbaud terminal when you are moving 20mb of data... What wonders a good nights sleep can do? Regards, Jeff In <20010419061954.SZMO24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox>, on 04/19/01 at 07:59 PM, THETechnoid@home.com said: >Dunno if any of you recall, but I found a nifty way of duping tape data >under AOS/VS II on MV hardware last year. >Something like: >"Type/nodisplay @mtb0 filename" >The purpose is to binary duplicate the info on the tape to a file on hard >disk indiscriminately in order to reverse the process and produce a copy >of the tape ( I have only one 9 track drive ). >My problem is that the system insists on displaying every displayable >byte to the host terminal and beeping at the non-displayable bytes. I'd >like this not to happen but can't remember the secret, undocumented >syntax for this command. >Help/v type does not give me the info. Neither do any of the other >manuals I have. Does anyone have a fix for me? I can't dup a 20mb 9 >track that beeps all night long and in which destination I have no >confidence. >I ran across the correct syntax/commands some months ago and just can't >remember what I'm supposed to enter to get this result. S@!T. >Your help is very much appreciated, >Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 19 19:00:02 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Need help on DEC cards & drives In-Reply-To: <200104192324.QAA00781@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200104192324.QAA00781@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >DataRam 63015 Based on the 630 I'm wondering if this isn't for a MV II. I inquired some time ago about a DataRam board I have (DR224 8MB memory upgrade, for the Digital MicroVAX and MicroVAX II) and was given the following contact at Lindtronics for info and support of these older products, provided by DataRam: Gary Lindholm 715-268-9278 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 19 19:08:19 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... Message-ID: <003e01c0c92e$0277d420$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> " We still have Sparc Station 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s colour and mono X-terms. The sale is over and the room is closed but if you're serious, make us an offer and we can arrange to meet. " I just received this in an email. I hate having to make a first offer on machines that I'm not real familiar with. They Came form a University Physics department. What would be a fair price for these machines? What should I look for? Which one is the most interesting? From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 19:22:43 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: TK70 / CompacTape II anywhere? In-Reply-To: <3ADF73E3.C6E82F6D@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Apr 19, 2001 11:25:23 PM Message-ID: <200104200022.RAA02898@shell1.aracnet.com> > where do you think one could buy new or used CompacTape II (TK70) > tape cardridges? It looks as if they're nowhere to find on the net. > Well, I suppose one could use the new 24 GB DLT cardriges, but they > are terribly expensive just for the poor VAX 6000 hobbyist. Actually you can't use Compact III tapes unless you've a drive that supports them. The TK70 does not. Rumor has it that you can degauss a TK50 and use it as a TK70. I've not personally done this. If you've SCSI on the 6000, I'd recommend a cheap 4mm or 8mm used tape drive. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 19:46:24 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <003e01c0c92e$0277d420$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Apr 19, 2001 08:08:19 PM Message-ID: <200104200046.RAA03696@shell1.aracnet.com> > > " We still have Sparc Station 2, HP730's and Decstation > 5000/'s colour and mono X-terms. > > The sale is over and the room is closed but if you're > serious, make us an > offer and we can arrange to meet. " > > > I just received this in an email. I hate having to make a > first offer on machines that I'm not real familiar with. > They Came form a University Physics department. > > What would be a fair price for these machines? > What should I look for? > Which one is the most interesting? Sparc 2's are no longer supported by the lastest version of Solaris. Unless they've got the SBUS Ram expansion card they suck at modern versions of Solaris anyway. If they've got a Framebuffer the odds are it's a slow 8-bit one. They'll run OpenBSD and make a decent firewall. Maybe $50 with full SIMM slots and HD's. More if they've got something interesting like a 100Mbit ethernet or SCSI S-BUS cards. If they do have the 100Mbit ethernet it will be a card that won't be supported past Solaris 2.6. DECstation 5000's. Only really good for running NetBSD. They're a TurboChannel system. I'd recommend looking at http://www.netbsd.org under the PMAX port for more info. Depending on how well they're loaded, I'd guess $25-100. HP730? Is that an HP 9000/730 or what? If so they might even make the 10 year rule. If you don't get HP-UX media with them, I'd say pass. Look at them from the value of thier RAM and HD's. They're not a bad machine, but getting stuff for them could be troublesome. X-Terminals? I'd say pass. The most interesting thing there would be either the Sparc 2's and the DECstation 5000's (especially if they've got interesting TurboChannel cards). Zane From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 19 20:02:02 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 Message-ID: <200104200102.f3K122V18079@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone have a spare Infoserver 100/150 for sale? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 20:06:06 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <003e01c0c92e$0277d420$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Apr 19, 2001 08:08:19 PM Message-ID: <200104200106.SAA03983@shell1.aracnet.com> > What would be a fair price for these machines? > What should I look for? > Which one is the most interesting? For a little more info on the HP 9000/730 you can try here: http://parisc.workstations.org also the following has links: http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp700/ Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 19 20:43:22 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Cute Vax 5500, in SoCal In-Reply-To: References: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: I saw a cute little vax today at a scrap yard, apparently still intact, it was a 5500 in a BA400 chassis. I don't think I can bring it home, but should I be tempted? Anybody else in SoCal looking for one? I did snag a fairly burnt in VT520, unfortunately minus any cables, and left about 5 more behind. From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Apr 19 20:49:30 2001 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <200104200102.f3K122V18079@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010419204930.007b9100@ubanproductions.com> I saw one on ebay today: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1230334683 --tom At 08:02 PM 4/19/01 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have a spare Infoserver 100/150 >for sale? >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net > > From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 19 21:10:45 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <15071.24463.514815.666000@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 19, Mark Gregory wrote: > > Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of > > Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years > > of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years > > they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users > > group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members > > actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET > > Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. > > Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the > > _second_ oldest Commodore club. > > Impressive! > > > I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older > > clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic > > and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > > DECUS? > > -Dave McGuire > IWUG? M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Apr 19 21:15:54 2001 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: <4.1.20010419221059.00b46ab0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 03:37 PM 4/19/01 -0600, Mark Gregory said something like: >Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of >Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years At minimum, back to late 1986 . . . >of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years >they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users >group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members >actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET >Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. >Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the >_second_ oldest Commodore club. > >I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older >clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic >and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? Wintel User's Groups?!? Shouldn't they be _Support_ groups? (12 steps, etc.) :-) Couldn't resist. Running and ducking now . . . -Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From dittman at dittman.net Thu Apr 19 21:36:24 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Cute Vax 5500, in SoCal In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Apr 19, 2001 06:43:22 PM Message-ID: <200104200236.f3K2aOa18392@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I saw a cute little vax today at a scrap yard, apparently still intact, it > was a 5500 in a BA400 chassis. I don't think I can bring it home, but > should I be tempted? Anybody else in SoCal looking for one? > > I did snag a fairly burnt in VT520, unfortunately minus any cables, and > left about 5 more behind. Are you sure this wasn't a DECsystem 5500? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From mranalog at home.com Thu Apr 19 21:31:52 2001 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Neon logic circuits References: <3.0.5.32.20010420001348.008f84c0@pop.ismennt.is> Message-ID: <3ADF9F98.7D2BDA96@home.com> Thorhallur Ragnarsson wrote: > Hi. > Hope this is the file you need. > http://hyrna.ismennt.is/~thor/lamp.zip > Best regards. > ??rhallur > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician/Instructor > Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri > IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280 > Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI > E-Mail: thorh@ismennt.is Iceland > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Thorhallur, Yes, it is, thank you very much. You saved me hours of work (just finding the manual) :) I also put it back up at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/LAMP.ZIP because I got a few more requests. I'll keep it up for a few days. By the way, the scans are from "General Electric Glow Lamp Manual", first edition, 1963. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ========================================= From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 19 21:58:54 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s Message-ID: <001701c0c945$d752fb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Also found this deal today 100$ takes all 4-6 AS400 9404 models about 35+ IBM 3164 terminals with keyboards, dust screens for terminals, network blocks etc. Tested one of the 9404 and powers up fine... others untested... they do include drives, tape units, cpu's, memory etc !!!! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 19 23:10:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: strange find! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010419231012.3aa79ddc@mailhost.intellistar.net> I helped a friend of mine pick up a load of surplus stuff today and one of the items that I got was a bag of keyboard overlays that came from Tektronix. The Tektronix tag on the bag is dated 1973 says that they're for a PDP-11! The overlays appear to be for a numeric pad or something similar. They have cutouts for four rows with four keys in each row. The overlays are all marked as "User Definable" so the key positions are unmarked except for Cont, Reset and CPU Busy in the last three positions in the bottom row. There are four orange color overlays, five yellow overlays and five blue overlays in the package. Does anyone know what these are four???? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 19 23:20:20 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010419232020.3aa7c69e@mailhost.intellistar.net> The HP hand held calculator club, PPC, have been meeting since the days of the HP 65 (1976?). This was a world wide group so meetings were seldom held but several areas had enough members to have regular meetings. The London chapter (HPCC), the Philadelpia chapter (name?) and the Chicago chapter (CHIP chapter) STILL have meetings every month and there is an international meeting at least one a year. PPC went through a hostile takeover about 12 years ago and no longer formally exist but the members have not let the spirit of the club die. Several of the people on this list are ex-PPC members. Joe At 03:37 PM 4/19/01 -0600, you wrote: >Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of >Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years >of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years >they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users >group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members >actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET >Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. >Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the >_second_ oldest Commodore club. > >I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older >clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic >and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > >Cheers, >Mark G. > > From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Apr 19 22:15:54 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: TK70 / CompacTape II anywhere? References: <3ADF73E3.C6E82F6D@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <3ADFA9EA.2C861847@idirect.com> >Gunther Schadow wrote: > where do you think one could buy new or used CompacTape II (TK70) > tape cardridges? It looks as if they're nowhere to find on the net. > Well, I suppose one could use the new 24 GB DLT cardriges, but they > are terribly expensive just for the poor VAX 6000 hobbyist. Jerome Fine replies: There used to be a site which listed the physical and electrical characteristics of all the DLT tapes - sadly it is no longer available. However, the table showed that the ONLY TWO differences between a CompacTape (I) and a CompacTape II were the price and the colour of the label - Brown for the CompacTape and Blue for the CompacTape II. DEC usually charged a considerable premium when the label was Blue. As Zane mentioned, its is definitely possible to bulk erase a CompacTape I or II after a TK50 has written to the blank tape (at which point a TK70 will no longer write to the tape since the TK70 drive immediately places it in WRITE PROTECT). I think a friend has a few that can be spared at this point - e-mail me privately and I will make the contact after I know a bit more. He sold me a few for my TK70 and they work very well! By the way, the TK70/TQK70 is a reasonable combination. While I use RT-11 which can write files of a maximum of 32 MBytes, that can be done in about 7 Minutes at full streaming mode. Even a compare can also be done in full streaming mode in 7 minutes. Both times were for that 32 MByte file and when BUP is used. When I use BUP (8192 byte records), the capacity of a TK70 is about 300 MBytes or about 8.75 RT-11 partitions. If you can find a bulk eraser, be careful. Evidentially my friend went through quite a few - burned them out since they are not designed for continuous use unless you purchase the expensive ones - which I presume you want to avoid in the first place. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 22:29:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <001701c0c945$d752fb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Apr 19, 2001 10:58:54 PM Message-ID: <200104200329.UAA05864@shell1.aracnet.com> > Also found this deal today > > 100$ takes all > 4-6 AS400 9404 models > about 35+ IBM 3164 terminals with keyboards, dust screens > for terminals, > network blocks etc. > Tested one of the 9404 and powers up fine... others > untested... > they do include drives, tape units, cpu's, memory etc !!!! BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you might as well ignore them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be interested in one :^) Zane From Demon02554 at aol.com Thu Apr 19 22:43:35 2001 From: Demon02554 at aol.com (Demon02554@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s Message-ID: i may be interested....i just need to consult with 2 or 3 people about storage and i may be able to do it From mbg at world.std.com Thu Apr 19 22:50:04 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SCSI was RE: RT-11 - An Open letter to Mentec? Message-ID: <200104200350.XAA11364@world.std.com> >Can someone please create a list of PDP11 UNIBUS compatible SCSI >controller boards and manufacturers? Check out the pdp11-field-guide, there are a number of non-DEC boards listed there (check my web site). If they don't have one you are familiar with, please send me the information about it including manufacturer, part number, what it does and any supporting evidence (pointers to documents, etc) and I'll include the information in a future edit of the file... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 22:52:36 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Latest finds - Tandy 1000 and "Code Name: Sector" Message-ID: <20010420035236.18691.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> The Tandy 1000 was a freebie (from a friend from a cow-orker who wanted $20 for the dot-matrix printer, but the computer was free). The other item is a Milton-Bradley electronic sub hunt game from the late 1970s. Electronically, it resembles Mattel football and the like - a window of LED displays, a few discretes (to indicate cardinal points on a compass) and a bunch of buttons. The manual is present with a tutorial. Apparently, you reset the thing, then plot ship courses with crayons on a grid map, punching buttons all the way. I can't imagine trying to _actually_ play the game, but playing *with* the game was fun for at least as long as the tutorial lasted. Oh... the game was $0.67 at a thrift store because it was 75% off day for green tags. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 19 22:26:17 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <200104200106.SAA03983@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <003e01c0c92e$0277d420$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Apr 19, 2001 08:08:19 PM Message-ID: >> What would be a fair price for these machines? >> What should I look for? >> Which one is the most interesting? Fair price, ouch! I hate paying that. Sounds to me that this place just finished some sale event and these machines are leftovers, bid accordingly. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 19 23:01:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Cute Vax 5500, in SoCal In-Reply-To: <200104200236.f3K2aOa18392@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Mike Ford" at Apr 19, 2001 06:43:22 PM Message-ID: >> I saw a cute little vax today at a scrap yard, apparently still intact, it >> was a 5500 in a BA400 chassis. I don't think I can bring it home, but >> should I be tempted? Anybody else in SoCal looking for one? >> >> I did snag a fairly burnt in VT520, unfortunately minus any cables, and >> left about 5 more behind. > >Are you sure this wasn't a DECsystem 5500? That sounds right, someone called it a Vax in the yard, but I think it is a Dec System 5500. Property tag in service date was 1990, and inside it looks like a pair of scsi drives. It had a trouble log on the side, but I didn't look that closely. From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 19 23:14:39 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: Re: AS400 9404 /s (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: <001701c0c945$d752fb40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <200104200329.UAA05864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <15071.47023.674252.751954@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 19, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Also found this deal today > > > > 100$ takes all > > 4-6 AS400 9404 models > > about 35+ IBM 3164 terminals with keyboards, dust screens > > for terminals, > > network blocks etc. > > Tested one of the 9404 and powers up fine... others > > untested... > > they do include drives, tape units, cpu's, memory etc !!!! > > BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you might as well ignore > them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be interested in one :^) Yes, I might be interested in one as well. Details? Anyone know more about this hardware? I'm an IBM neophyte myself, looking to learn another archicture.. -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 19 23:39:59 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Craters and Freighters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings, How many here are familiar with a company called "Craters and Freighters"? It looks like a good alternative to UPS, etc. for shipping classic computers, and they appear interested in offering better protection, as well as better insurance, for electronic equipment, as well as other things such as antiques. The person that I purchased a DEC VAX 4000 from is shipping it through them; I'll let the group know how it arrives. Their web site is www.cratersandfreighters.com. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 23:41:00 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <15071.47023.674252.751954@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Apr 20, 2001 12:14:39 AM Message-ID: <200104200441.VAA06876@shell1.aracnet.com> > Yes, I might be interested in one as well. Details? Anyone know > more about this hardware? I'm an IBM neophyte myself, looking to > learn another archicture.. About all I know about AS/400's can be sumed up in the following statement. If it doesn't come with an OS, you're hosed. You can get a car for what IBM wants for the OS (maybe not a good car, but it'll run). You can buy some systems and get the OS License transfered. The hardware ranges from PC tower sized up to multi-rack. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 19 23:47:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Craters and Freighters In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 20, 2001 12:39:59 AM Message-ID: <200104200447.VAA06956@shell1.aracnet.com> > I purchased a DEC VAX 4000 from is shipping it through them; I'll let > the group know how it arrives. Their web site is > www.cratersandfreighters.com. Out of curiosity, how many cabinets, and how much and how far is the shipping? Zane From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Apr 20 00:07:36 2001 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Craters and Freighters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010419220537.034e0200@agora.rdrop.com> At 12:39 AM 4/20/01 -0400, you wrote: >How many here are familiar with a company called "Craters and >Freighters"? It looks like a good alternative to UPS, etc. for >shipping classic computers, and they appear interested in offering >better protection, as well as better insurance, for electronic >equipment, as well as other things such as antiques. I know them. They picked up, crated, and shipped a two cabinet PDP-8/i system for me from Wisconsin to Oregon. The crating job was nothing short of remarkable. I've still got foam from that shipment that I'm using to repack other things. -jim jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 20 02:53:20 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: Ram Meenakshisundaram "Re: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box" (Apr 19, 17:50) References: <3ADF5D92.51B6B0B2@olf.com> Message-ID: <10104200853.ZM23325@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 19, 17:50, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > do a touch /etc/nologin > This wont work as nologin is just a message file (similar to motd) whenever the system is about to shutdown. That's not what it's "supposed" to do -- it's supposed to be checked by 'login' and if it exists, cause login to refuse to accept the remote login, and print the contents (if any). Some versions of Solaris don't honour that, though :-( They just use it to contain a message given to anyone attemting to log in while a shutdwon is in progress (it's not the message printed to active sessions when a shutdown starts, though). If your system uses NIS, then you could just change the contents of the passwd line in /etc/nsswitch.conf from "passwd: files nis" to "passwd: files" and add your own entry to /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Apr 20 03:36:49 2001 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? References: Message-ID: <008401c0c975$0bb45c60$030101ac@boll.casema.net> The chinese ABBACUS-group might be a contender ;=) Sipke de Wal --------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: Merle K. Peirce To: Cc: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 4:10 AM Subject: Re: Longest running user group in history? > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > On April 19, Mark Gregory wrote: > > > Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of > > > Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years > > > of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years > > > they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users > > > group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members > > > actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET > > > Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. > > > Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the > > > _second_ oldest Commodore club. > > > > Impressive! > > > > > I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older > > > clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic > > > and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > > > > DECUS? > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > IWUG? > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Fri Apr 20 03:38:35 2001 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Singer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a couple of System 10 manuals. The machine is described as "The System 10 is a multi-programming system capable of executing twent independant programs... The System 10 utilises as new approach, the is no executive program, all executive functions are performed by hardware. Each program is assigned a fixed block of memory referred to as the user partition. A system 10 may contain up to 20 such partitions. In addition there is a common partition shared by all programs. Main memory is comprised of core modules of 10,000 locations, and each location contains one 6 bit word. System 10 may contain a maximum of 110,000 locations. The maximum partition size is 10,000 locations, and the common area must be at least 1,000 locations. The max size of common is 10k in the Model 20 and 65k in the Model 21 Not much programming detail in the manuals I have, I suspect there was a programmers guide also available. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Honniball Sent: 18 April 2001 17:37 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Singer On Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:01:34 -0400 (EDT) Bill Pechter wrote: > Anyone else out there ever see a Singer System 10... I don't, but I did go to a job interview at a company in Tiptree, Essex, England where they had one, in about 1988. I read later that the Singer System 10 was an early RISC machine, although it's not clear that Singer designed it with the knowledge that making it RISC would make it faster. It may have simply been a minimal CPU design that came out RISC-like in hindsight. Anyone know any more details? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Apr 20 04:05:59 2001 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Fw: Fw: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process Message-ID: <07c401c0c979$5303fd10$cf241bce@L166> I thought the list might like this response I received. Dan -----Original Message----- From: abuse@163.net To: Daniel T. Burrows Date: Thursday, April 19, 2001 11:55 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Introducing a New Concept on Advanced Garbage Treatment Process >Dear sir, > > We have locked his web sites. > >Best Regard, >163.net Free Mail System Admin Team > > >> Please shut this spammer and his web sites down. >> This was sent to a mail list for old computers. >> Thanks >> Dan >> From nenad.jambresic at varian.com Fri Apr 20 06:48:02 2001 From: nenad.jambresic at varian.com (Nenad Jambresic) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Dectape TU58-k Message-ID: <3AE021F1.4ED42A82@varian.com> Can anybody provide some Datacartridges " DECTAPE II " TU58-K ??????? mail to:nenad.jambresic@varian.com From PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp Fri Apr 20 07:57:01 2001 From: PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5KayEhTVswbBsoQg==?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touchpad? In-Reply-To: <3AE021F1.4ED42A82@varian.com> References: <3AE021F1.4ED42A82@varian.com> Message-ID: <20010420215701.53f61cd1.18933@nifty.ne.jp> Hi, all! I'd like to know what was the world's first notebook PC with touchpad (or glidepoint, trackpad, whatever). My friend insist that it was PowerBook 520/540 from Apple, but I doubt it. I know Gavilan laptop had one, but I don't know it was truely mouse-like pointing device or not. Does anyone know other notebook (laptop) PC with touchpad prior to PowerBook? Yoichi From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Apr 20 08:30:35 2001 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:28 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box In-Reply-To: <3ADF5E39.D8509BBD@olf.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > maybe I'm just being dense, but wouldn't the easiest solution be to just > > not give others accounts on your box?? > > > > bill > > > > Yes that would work, but if you are on a network running NIS (YP), > with several other users, it wont as NIS maintains the accounts not > my local machine... > If you could do the inetd playing that has also been suggested, I assume you have root privs. Ergo, add your self as a local user and remove the NIS magic cookie from the end of your password file. This is by far less crippling than the other suggestions which not only keep others out, but you as well. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Apr 20 09:00:13 2001 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:31 2005 Subject: Preventing users from loggin into a unix box References: Message-ID: <3AE040ED.8FF10854@olf.com> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > If you could do the inetd playing that has also been suggested, I assume > you have root privs. Ergo, add your self as a local user and remove the > NIS magic cookie from the end of your password file. > > This is by far less crippling than the other suggestions which not only > keep others out, but you as well. > Yes, I just realized that, but this is not a server machine, but my local desktop machine. I use this 95% of the time developing software (the other 5% I use my SunPCI x86 card for Windoze emulation or my laptop), so disabling inetd for telnets and rlogins is not a problem. I dont need to telnet or rlogin over to my machine. Thanks for all the suggestions... Ram -- ,,,, /'^'\ ( o o ) -oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------- | Ram Meenakshisundaram | | Senior Software Engineer | | OpenLink Financial Inc | | .oooO Phone: (516) 227-6600 x267 | | ( ) Oooo. Email: rmeenaks@olf.com | ---\ (----( )-------------------------------------- \_) ) / (_/ From menadeau at mediaone.net Fri Apr 20 09:05:27 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touchpad? References: <3AE021F1.4ED42A82@varian.com> <20010420215701.53f61cd1.18933@nifty.ne.jp> Message-ID: <065301c0c9a2$f8e33a60$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> The Gavilan did indeed have a touchpad above the keyboard in 1983. I happen to have a presskit and photos. Its position--at a 90-degree angle to the keyboard--would have made it awkward to use. I recall seeing an odd Olivetti notebook with a touchpad in the late 80's, which I think would pre-date the Powerbook. The Olivetti also had a faux Italian marble finish. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "$B>.Jk!!M[0l" <"B To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:57 AM Subject: World's first notebook with touchpad? > Hi, all! > > I'd like to know what was the world's first notebook PC with > touchpad (or glidepoint, trackpad, whatever). > > My friend insist that it was PowerBook 520/540 from Apple, > but I doubt it. I know Gavilan laptop had one, but I don't > know it was truely mouse-like pointing device or not. > > Does anyone know other notebook (laptop) PC with touchpad > prior to PowerBook? > > Yoichi > From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Apr 20 10:31:36 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) References: Message-ID: <3AE05658.4E5859F4@aurora.regenstrief.org> Sridhar, here is the URL to this material: http://www.decvax.org/vax6000/power.txt I have tried to mail the wizard who writes the in depth stuff, but his email address is no longer valid. So, what you see is what you get. I have thought about this again last night and came to a conclusion that I should just try it out. DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT COMPLETELY CONFIDENT OF THIS AND I HAVEN'T TRIED IT OUT YET. SO, READ ALL OF THE BELOW CRITICALLY, DON'T JUST TRUST ME BUT THINK FOR YOURSELF. PLEASE LET ME KNOW ANY CONCERNS OR DOUBTS YOU MIGHT HAVE ABOUT THE CORRECTNESS OF WHAT I SAY BELOW. Let's look at the plan again: ____________________ +300V | | | -__ -__ -__ thyristors ^ ^ ^ | | | L1 ------* | | L2 -----------* | L3 ----------------* | | | - - - diodes ^ ^ ^ | | | --------------------- Return ---- FOR 220 V SINGLE PHASE ----------------------------------------- With a 220 V single phase power supply (P and N coming out of your receptacle,) as in Europe, Australia, India (?), etc. all you would need to do is, e.g., put P on L1 and N on L2. That gives 220 V ~ input and if this sqrt(2) rule is correct (which I'm still a little confused about) you get 220V * 1.414 = 311.8 DC, i.e., just right. As Leon, the lost wizard of ZA, assures us, the thyristors and diodes are dimensioned so as to withstand all the power load coming through L1 and L2 only. If we want to be double sure, it should not hurt to, say, splice the P (or N) and connect to both L1 and L3. Of course it doesn't matter where exactly you put P and N and which of those you distribute over the two input lines. My guts suggest to splice P on L1 and L3 and N on L2, but that's for no rational reason. Also, I would not want to miss connecting the protective ground to the metal cabinet (wherever the protective ground should connect at the AC input, which I'm not sure about.) ---- FOR US 2 x 110 V TWO PHASE ------------------------------------- For the US I am thinking that may be the 2 phase 220 V dryer hookup is the best way to go. Not only is this line at a convenient location where you can store a big cabinet like this one, it is also well dimensioned to sustain a VAX or (and may be AND) your dryer. Otherwise, just dry your clothes on a line. But do not mistake the VAX's blower with your front-loading washer :-). Seriously, the two phases here, as I understand it, are: ------- P1 ------- N ------- P2 with U peek = 110 V and the phases of P1 and P2 being displaced by 180 degree. So, if you measure U between P1 and P2 you get 2 x 110 V = 220 V. So, I would then connect it like this: ____________________ +300V | | | -__ -__ -__ thyristors ^ ^ ^ | | | P1 -L1 -----* | | (N)-L2 ----------* | P2 -L3 ---------------* | | | - - - diodes ^ ^ ^ | | | --------------------- Return I am not sure whether to use N on L2 or leave N open (again, I notice how much I forgot about my high school physics.) This actally bugs me, because I don't know quite where to connect to the ground potential and how to deal with the protective ground here. I *think* that when I have the N connection open, I will have a higher DC output than when I close N on L2. But I don't know. Can someone throw in his opinion on the matter? I should at least be able to try this out without being afraid of breaking anything, since P1 P2 alone work just like 220 V European power. At least, I am using my old German electric devices on this kind of power hookup from my 60 A extra two-pase line. Any comments, warnings, advice? thanks, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistent Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Apr 20 10:36:51 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <200104200329.UAA05864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: If they don't come with an OS, they are still a good source of 50 pin SCSI cables and terminators of a variety of types: centronix -> ribbon etc. The biggest pain will be getting rid of or moving the built in UPS in the bottom of the pedestal. On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you might as well ignore > them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be interested in one :^) > > Zane From rickb at bensene.com Fri Apr 20 11:00:51 2001 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: strange find! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010419231012.3aa79ddc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I know that for a long time, Tektronix used PDP-11's as the controllers for their automated circuit test systems. I'm guessing that these may have been overlays that would go on the front panel of an 11/34 or similar beast that used a numeric keypad and other keypad controls, and 7-segment displays as the 'front panel' of the machine rather than earlier switches and blinkenlights. Tek made a lot of test systems that were very complex. Bed-of-nails fixtures with all kinds of signal generators and digitizers that would allow a circuit board to be fully exercised under the control of a test program. These were really amazing machines. Some of the later systems ran RSX-11 if I remember right. The earlier ones sat on top of RSTS or perhaps even custom operating systems. Back in the mid-70's, there were PDP-11's stuffed everywhere at Tek. There were also some PDP-8's. I remember seeing a large PDP-8/I system at one point, as well as quite a number of PDP-8/E machines. I remember that the 8/I was just sitting there...not powered up, and looked like it hadn't been in a very long time. I asked one of the guys that worked in the area (the circuit board CAD group), and he said that it hadn't been run in a long time, and someday they'd get rid of it. The coolest part is that the console on the system was an old original Tek 4002 Graphics Terminal...the first DVST terminal that Tek made. They were amazing terminals. Had hardware character scaling and rotation. All early SSI/MSI logic, as I recall. Big beasts...very heavy. I used to play with these old terminals all the time. Sure wish I could find one today. I remember once seeing a PDP-11 system (can't remember which model, but it had traditional switches and LED front panel) running something called WDO Tek BASIC. It essentially turned a PDP-11 into a programmable digitizing oscilloscope (with added custom interfaces for the waveform digitizer and waveform memory). The system had a Tek 4010 (maybe 4012, can't remember) graphics terminal connected up to it, which served as the 'display' for the captured waveforms. Using the BASIC environment, which Tek designed with a bunch of signal processing functionality, you could do all kinds of analysis and manipulation of the captured waveforms. Pretty amazing stuff for the time. Sorry for rambling through the memories... Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2001 9:10 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: strange find! > > > I helped a friend of mine pick up a load of surplus stuff today and one > of the items that I got was a bag of keyboard overlays that came from > Tektronix. The Tektronix tag on the bag is dated 1973 says that > they're for > a PDP-11! The overlays appear to be for a numeric pad or > something similar. > They have cutouts for four rows with four keys in each row. The overlays > are all marked as "User Definable" so the key positions are > unmarked except > for Cont, Reset and CPU Busy in the last three positions in the > bottom row. > There are four orange color overlays, five yellow overlays and five blue > overlays in the package. Does anyone know what these are four???? > > Joe > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Apr 20 11:10:26 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 Message-ID: Our power was off for 4 hours in a recent thunderstorm and the first thing I tried to do when it went off was try to login to look at the National Weather service Doppler image of the storm. My UPS keeps the cable modem and router up but the PC was dead. I was holding a flashlight in my mouth when I tried. It's actually pretty neat to see the image and recognize that the storm cell is probably over my house. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Apr 20 11:26:02 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Low ceilings and other impediments (includes floods) Message-ID: Floods Our computer room was on the 10th floor of an office building and the drain for the water cooled air handler dumped into a sink in the hall next to the elevator. The cleaning crew left a mop in the sink and it clogged up. We flooded the entire area below our raised computer floor. Amazingly the PDP 11/70 and RP04 kept on running, we noticed the problem because of the humidity in the room when we came in. Nothing like mold covered cables in raceways. We tried wicking the water out and blowing hot air under the floor, the mold really liked the hot air. Being on the 10th floor surrounded by low buildings we used to estimate how many mag tapes we could braid together to escape from a fire, we knew the ladder trucks couldn't reach us. We also estimated the disk safe with our backup disks would probably end up on some lower floor. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu Fri Apr 20 11:48:51 2001 From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) Message-ID: <200104201648.JAA10924@chiton.ucsd.edu> > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:31:36 +0000 > From: Gunther Schadow > To: Sridhar Ayengar > CC: port-vax@netbsd.org, classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) > > > Let's look at the plan again: > > > ____________________ +300V > | | | > -__ -__ -__ thyristors > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > L1 ------* | | > L2 -----------* | > L3 ----------------* > | | | > - - - diodes > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > --------------------- Return > > > ---- FOR 220 V SINGLE PHASE ----------------------------------------- > > With a 220 V single phase power supply (P and N coming out of your > receptacle,) as in Europe, Australia, India (?), etc. all you would > need to do is, e.g., put P on L1 and N on L2. That gives 220 V ~ > input and if this sqrt(2) rule is correct (which I'm still a little > confused about) you get 220V * 1.414 = 311.8 DC, i.e., just right. > > ---- FOR US 2 x 110 V TWO PHASE ------------------------------------- > > For the US I am thinking that may be the 2 phase 220 V dryer hookup > is the best way to go. Not only is this line at a convenient location > where you can store a big cabinet like this one, it is also well > dimensioned to sustain a VAX or (and may be AND) your dryer. Otherwise, > just dry your clothes on a line. But do not mistake the VAX's blower > with your front-loading washer :-). > > Seriously, the two phases here, as I understand it, are: > > ------- P1 > ------- N > ------- P2 > > with U peek = 110 V and the phases of P1 and P2 being displaced by > 180 degree. So, if you measure U between P1 and P2 you get 2 x 110 V > = 220 V. So, I would then connect it like this: This is really 220v single phase. And the 110 refers to the nominal RMS voltage. Nearer to 120 these days. The peak voltage is, of course about 1.4x the RMS. > > ____________________ +300V > | | | > -__ -__ -__ thyristors > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > P1 -L1 -----* | | > (N)-L2 ----------* | > P2 -L3 ---------------* > | | | > - - - diodes > ^ ^ ^ > | | | > --------------------- Return > > I am not sure whether to use N on L2 or leave N open (again, I > notice how much I forgot about my high school physics.) This actally > bugs me, because I don't know quite where to connect to the ground > potential and how to deal with the protective ground here. I would strongly advocate leaving one of the three inputs (L1, L2, L3) open, and connect the other two to P1 and P2. This makes a full-wave controlled bridge rectifier across the "220" line. The peak voltage (hence the no-load DC output) would be 220 sqrt(2), about 340V. The DC output is floating with respect to protective ground, but will be isolated by the transformer in the switching supply that runs from the nominal 300V. carl (amateur electrician) -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein@ucsd.edu From jss at ou.edu Fri Apr 20 12:16:37 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: National Weather Service (Was: 25 SIGNS...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <987786997.3ae06ef520fcd@email.ou.edu> Quoting "McFadden, Mike" : > Our power was off for 4 hours in a recent thunderstorm and the > first thing I tried to do when it went off was try to login to look > at the National Weather service Doppler image of the storm. My UPS > keeps the cable modem and router up but the PC was dead. I was > holding a flashlight in my mouth when I tried. It's actually > pretty neat to see the image and recognize that the storm cell is > probably over my house. Ah, the National Weather Service. They and the National Severe Storms Laboratory are down the road from my home in Norman, Oklahoma. They're at the Max Westheimer airpark, which has quite a few large doppler radar spheres lying around. I took a tour at NSSL once, and was simply amazed at the quantity of computers I saw. Raised floors, big iron -- they had it all. This was almost 10 years ago, so I don't remember exactly what I saw. I think I'll go again sometime soon. I called recently to find out what happened to their surplus stuff, but it was a disappointment. They are required to take it all to Tinker AFB for storage/scrapping/whatever, and there was no way for me to make any kind of offer. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 20 12:57:23 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Commputers for display at VCF East Message-ID: <200104201757.NAA06388@wordstock.com> Would anyone be interested in seeing these systems at VCF East? Toshiba T3100e PC - with red plasma screen AST PowerExec 4/33SL with AST PowerStation docking station SIIG MiniSys 2000 Poquet PC Amiga 1000 Cheers, Bryan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 20 13:25:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <3AE05658.4E5859F4@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Apr 20, 1 03:31:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2190 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010420/57f144a4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 20 13:13:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010419232020.3aa7c69e@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 19, 1 11:20:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010420/aa8e2352/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 20 13:18:34 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touchpad? In-Reply-To: <20010420215701.53f61cd1.18933@nifty.ne.jp> from "=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5KayEhTVswbBsoQg==?=" at Apr 20, 1 09:57:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010420/961f61f1/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 20 13:37:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Commputers for display at VCF East In-Reply-To: <200104201757.NAA06388@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <01Apr20.144650edt.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> I was thinking of trying to have the following machines available: SWTPc S/09 Amiga 500 with full DigiView setup (camera, DigiDroid, etc.) and possibly the SOL-20 Jeff On Friday, April 20, 2001, at 01:57 PM, Bryan Pope wrote: > Would anyone be interested in seeing these systems at VCF East? > > Toshiba T3100e PC - with red plasma screen > AST PowerExec 4/33SL with AST PowerStation docking station > SIIG MiniSys 2000 > Poquet PC > Amiga 1000 > > Cheers, > > Bryan > From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Apr 20 13:40:46 2001 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 604 Monitor Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010420143526.00a65c20@mail.wincom.net> Does anyone have any information about the Tektronix 604 Monitor? I was recently given one and have no idea of how it was used. It appears to be a real minimum sort of scope. Thanks Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 20 14:13:55 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Commputers for display at VCF East In-Reply-To: <01Apr20.144650edt.119044@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> from "Jeff Hellige" at Apr 20, 01 02:37:48 pm Message-ID: <200104201913.PAA22169@wordstock.com> > > I was thinking of trying to have the following machines available: > > SWTPc S/09 > Amiga 500 with full DigiView setup (camera, DigiDroid, etc.) Does this camera come with a plastic disc that is red, green, blue and clear? > and possibly the SOL-20 > Bryan From jott at hamming.ee.nd.edu Fri Apr 20 14:37:22 2001 From: jott at hamming.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com>; from Innfogra@aol.com on Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 05:33:39PM -0400 References: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> Hello - My HP 85 is growing long in the tooth. I want to replace it with something more modern BUT just as reliable/dependable (e.g. doesn't crash). I'm afraid when it does break I won't be able to find parts to repair it. It's being used in a working research lab. I use it to control a rack of electronic gear (e.g. frequency synthesizer, dynamic signal analyzer, network analyzer, etc.) so I don't need anything fancy just bullet proof and reliable. This means windows and macs are out. What's your opinion. john -- ************************************************************************ * * * * John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * * * * ************************************************************************ From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 14:41:04 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR Message-ID: I have been asked to see if I can transfer the contents of some 8" disks to PC compatible disks. A CP/M disk has offered no challenge, but I am stopped dead on a disk whose label indicates that it was for use on a DEC Minc 11. Using PUTR, I have tried mounting the disk as /RX01 and /RT11, /FOREIGN, and even /OS8 at separate times. However, whenever I invoke the COPY/DEVICE command it selects the disk and errors out with the message 'Sector not found reading drive H' 'Abort, Retry, Fail?'. Using AnaDisk, I am able to determine that there are 26x128 byte sectors per track, but with a data error message for each sector. Considering some of DEC's strange format characteristics I am not too surprised that AnaDisk has a problem with it. But PUTR's problems do surprise me. Another disk gives exactly the same result. It is certainly possible that the disk is simply bad, but could there possibly be some other operating system format that is also 26x128 but does not respond to PUTR and the options that I have tried. Thanks for any hints that you can offer. - don From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 20 14:44:55 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement (John Ott) References: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> Message-ID: <15072.37303.114437.475869@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 20, John Ott wrote: > My HP 85 is growing long in the tooth. I want to replace it with > something more modern BUT just as reliable/dependable (e.g. doesn't > crash). I'm afraid when it does break I won't be able to find parts to > repair it. It's being used in a working research lab. I use it to > control a rack of electronic gear (e.g. frequency synthesizer, dynamic > signal analyzer, network analyzer, etc.) so I don't need anything fancy > just bullet proof and reliable. This means windows and macs are out. > > What's your opinion. If you want something just as reliable I'd stick with the HP85. Pick up a few more at hamfests or on eBay to use as spares in case you cook one. In my opinion, nothing made today can touch the stability or reliability of that platform by a longshot. -Dave McGuire From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Apr 20 14:48:31 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: International Microsystems 1010 Programmer Message-ID: Hello all, Recently I purchased an IM 1010 Universal PROM Programmer, serial number 448. It has one personality module, HAGEN1 1, and one adapter, 512x8. This is an old programmer (somewhere on the order of 20+ years old), but it still appears to function. The manual I received with it, however, was basically just a device support list, and did not contain any operating information. I opened the device, and lo and behold, an Intel i4040 was inside, along with some other Intel 42XX chips of that family (MCS-40, I believe). There were also several TI 2516 EPROMs, some RAM, and discrete stuff. I did not disassemble the display or keyboard. A serial port is on the back, and the unit came w/ a serial cable, but I have not hooked it up to my computer yet ..... I powered it up, and it appears to function. The display lights up, and by playing with keys I can get address counters on the display to increment, and I think I can store values in RAM.... - Does anyone have an operations manual for this programmer? I would gladly pay copying and postage... - Does anyone have personality modules and adapters that they'd be willing to part with? :-) Or perhaps schematics for some of them, so I could build my own? This beast supposedly could program 1702s and 2708s with the right adapters, so if I could make those, I'd be VERY happy.... Thanks! Rich B. From vance at ikickass.org Fri Apr 20 14:51:55 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <200104201648.JAA10924@chiton.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: Let's see. As I understand it, I would just have to hook up one phase and everything would be fine. Anyone have the pinouts for the dryer power connector and the end of the cable from the VAX PS? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:31:36 +0000 > > From: Gunther Schadow > > To: Sridhar Ayengar > > CC: port-vax@netbsd.org, classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) > > > > > > Let's look at the plan again: > > > > > > ____________________ +300V > > | | | > > -__ -__ -__ thyristors > > ^ ^ ^ > > | | | > > L1 ------* | | > > L2 -----------* | > > L3 ----------------* > > | | | > > - - - diodes > > ^ ^ ^ > > | | | > > --------------------- Return > > > > > > ---- FOR 220 V SINGLE PHASE ----------------------------------------- > > > > With a 220 V single phase power supply (P and N coming out of your > > receptacle,) as in Europe, Australia, India (?), etc. all you would > > need to do is, e.g., put P on L1 and N on L2. That gives 220 V ~ > > input and if this sqrt(2) rule is correct (which I'm still a little > > confused about) you get 220V * 1.414 = 311.8 DC, i.e., just right. > > > > ---- FOR US 2 x 110 V TWO PHASE ------------------------------------- > > > > For the US I am thinking that may be the 2 phase 220 V dryer hookup > > is the best way to go. Not only is this line at a convenient location > > where you can store a big cabinet like this one, it is also well > > dimensioned to sustain a VAX or (and may be AND) your dryer. Otherwise, > > just dry your clothes on a line. But do not mistake the VAX's blower > > with your front-loading washer :-). > > > > Seriously, the two phases here, as I understand it, are: > > > > ------- P1 > > ------- N > > ------- P2 > > > > with U peek = 110 V and the phases of P1 and P2 being displaced by > > 180 degree. So, if you measure U between P1 and P2 you get 2 x 110 V > > = 220 V. So, I would then connect it like this: > > This is really 220v single phase. And the 110 refers to the nominal > RMS voltage. Nearer to 120 these days. The peak voltage is, of course > about 1.4x the RMS. > > > > > ____________________ +300V > > | | | > > -__ -__ -__ thyristors > > ^ ^ ^ > > | | | > > P1 -L1 -----* | | > > (N)-L2 ----------* | > > P2 -L3 ---------------* > > | | | > > - - - diodes > > ^ ^ ^ > > | | | > > --------------------- Return > > > > I am not sure whether to use N on L2 or leave N open (again, I > > notice how much I forgot about my high school physics.) This actally > > bugs me, because I don't know quite where to connect to the ground > > potential and how to deal with the protective ground here. > > I would strongly advocate leaving one of the three inputs (L1, L2, L3) > open, and connect the other two to P1 and P2. This makes a full-wave > controlled bridge rectifier across the "220" line. The peak voltage > (hence the no-load DC output) would be 220 sqrt(2), about 340V. > > The DC output is floating with respect to protective ground, but > will be isolated by the transformer in the switching supply that > runs from the nominal 300V. > > carl (amateur electrician) > -- > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein@ucsd.edu > From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Apr 20 14:55:01 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS Message-ID: Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. Anybody else interested in a group purchase? Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his mind?? --------- I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. ------------ Rich B. From vance at ikickass.org Fri Apr 20 15:18:39 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: <15072.37303.114437.475869@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: What about a tandem? Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 20, John Ott wrote: > > My HP 85 is growing long in the tooth. I want to replace it with > > something more modern BUT just as reliable/dependable (e.g. doesn't > > crash). I'm afraid when it does break I won't be able to find parts to > > repair it. It's being used in a working research lab. I use it to > > control a rack of electronic gear (e.g. frequency synthesizer, dynamic > > signal analyzer, network analyzer, etc.) so I don't need anything fancy > > just bullet proof and reliable. This means windows and macs are out. > > > > What's your opinion. > > If you want something just as reliable I'd stick with the HP85. > Pick up a few more at hamfests or on eBay to use as spares in case you > cook one. In my opinion, nothing made today can touch the stability > or reliability of that platform by a longshot. > > -Dave McGuire > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Apr 20 15:21:13 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010420202113.93839.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rich Beaudry wrote: > Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. > > Anybody else interested in a group purchase? Depends on the list. > Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could > convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his > mind?? I wrote him directly. We'll see what happens with this. My interest has been and will continue to be older DEC stuff, but I have a little bit of Heath equipment and I wouldn't mind an ancient micro with toggles, but I'd rather build my own than shop eOverpay. Oh, wait! I already have. :-) -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Apr 20 15:22:13 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> from "John Ott" at Apr 20, 2001 02:37:22 PM Message-ID: <200104202022.OAA28122@calico.litterbox.com> You might want to investigate BeOS for this. www.be.com or www.gobe.com for the pro version. Pro version on a CD is $60, comes with all the development goodies - GNU C++, API docs, etc. I use it as my day to day desktop. It's rock solid. > > Hello - > > My HP 85 is growing long in the tooth. I want to replace it with > something more modern BUT just as reliable/dependable (e.g. doesn't > crash). I'm afraid when it does break I won't be able to find parts to > repair it. It's being used in a working research lab. I use it to > control a rack of electronic gear (e.g. frequency synthesizer, dynamic > signal analyzer, network analyzer, etc.) so I don't need anything fancy > just bullet proof and reliable. This means windows and macs are out. > > What's your opinion. > > john > > -- > > ************************************************************************ > * * * > * John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * > * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * > * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * > * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * > * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * > * * * > ************************************************************************ > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 15:26:03 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 20, 2001 12:41:04 PM Message-ID: <200104202026.NAA21993@shell1.aracnet.com> > disks to PC compatible disks. A CP/M disk has offered no challenge, > but I am stopped dead on a disk whose label indicates that it was > for use on a DEC Minc 11. > > Using PUTR, I have tried mounting the disk as /RX01 and /RT11, > /FOREIGN, and even /OS8 at separate times. However, whenever I If the disk is from a MINC-11, then it was almost definitly running RT-11. However, I suspect it was an RX02 drive that it was written in. Unfortunatly I'm not that familiar with PUTR, having only used it a couple times, and I don't know what it might support in the way of 8" floppy drives. If you can make a disk image of the floppy, you might have better luck accessing that with PUTR. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Apr 20 15:26:35 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010420202635.27023.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Don Maslin wrote: > > I have been asked to see if I can transfer the contents of some 8" > disks...[ from ] a DEC Minc 11. A MINC-11 is just a PDP-11 in a special box that lets you mount laboratory modules in the front and connect lab I/O leads inside and from module to module. It also came with drivers for numerous modules and typically an IBV11 GPIB card. > Using PUTR, I have tried mounting the disk as /RX01 and /RT11, > /FOREIGN, and even /OS8 at separate times... It's not OS8. It might be RT11, but AFAIK, all MINCs shipped with RX02 drives and those are an odd duck for format. You will probably need a real RX02 drive to read them. It's not a software formatting issue, it's a hardware formatting issue. You are getting data errors in all likelyhood because your hardware can't decode the bits themselves. Changing tools won't help. ISTR the headers are single density, but the data portion of the track is double density, but I've never tried to read them in anything but a real RX02 drive. If you have the real hardware, you could copy the files onto RX01 disks and read _them_ in your PC. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Apr 20 15:27:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Commputers for display at VCF East In-Reply-To: <200104201913.PAA22169@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20010420202727.19895.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > > Amiga 500 with full DigiView setup (camera, DigiDroid, etc.) > Does this camera come with a plastic disc that is red, green, blue and clear? Yes. Or a cardboard disk with red, blue and green filters in 3 of 4 holes. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 20 14:20:51 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: VCF Europa 2.0 - April 28-29 in Muenchen Message-ID: Come one! Come all! The second annual Vintage Computer Festival Europa is being held on April 28-29 in Muenchen, Germany (Munich for you Anglos :) For complete details, visit the VCFe website: http://www.vcfe.org See you there! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 20 14:25:26 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. > > Anybody else interested in a group purchase? > > Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could > convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his > mind?? > > --------- > I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. > One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and > related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage > computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. > I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year > so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to > use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply > of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be > provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. > E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. > ------------ Perhaps it's some sort of scam. Just a thought. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From vcf at siconic.com Fri Apr 20 14:28:27 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:32 2005 Subject: Commputers for display at VCF East In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > From: Jeff Hellige > > I was thinking of trying to have the following machines available: > > SWTPc S/09 > Amiga 500 with full DigiView setup (camera, DigiDroid, etc.) > and possibly the SOL-20 > > Jeff > On Friday, April 20, 2001, at 01:57 PM, Bryan Pope wrote: > > Would anyone be interested in seeing these systems at VCF East? > > Toshiba T3100e PC - with red plasma screen > AST PowerExec 4/33SL with AST PowerStation docking station > SIIG MiniSys 2000 > Poquet PC > Amiga 1000 Folks, if you have an idea for an exhibit for VCF East, please fill out the exhibition form: http://www.vintage.org/2001/east/exhibit.php3 The general criteria for exhibits is that the machines must be 10 years or older, unless the machine is part of a larger exhibit, or highly compelling in some way. If you have any questions, please direct them to me at . Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 16:02:21 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: <200104202026.NAA21993@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > disks to PC compatible disks. A CP/M disk has offered no challenge, > > but I am stopped dead on a disk whose label indicates that it was > > for use on a DEC Minc 11. > > > > Using PUTR, I have tried mounting the disk as /RX01 and /RT11, > > /FOREIGN, and even /OS8 at separate times. However, whenever I > > If the disk is from a MINC-11, then it was almost definitly running RT-11. > However, I suspect it was an RX02 drive that it was written in. Likely, however, the disk in question is punched as a `flippy' so it is unlikely that it was written as as RX02. > Unfortunatly I'm not that familiar with PUTR, having only used it a couple > times, and I don't know what it might support in the way of 8" floppy > drives. > > If you can make a disk image of the floppy, you might have better luck > accessing that with PUTR. I think you may be right, but it is going to be a long laborious process as AnaDisk insists on posting a separate Data Error message for each sector in each track before doing anything else. CopyQM simply rejects it! - don > Zane > From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 16:05:57 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: <20010420202635.27023.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Don Maslin wrote: > > > > I have been asked to see if I can transfer the contents of some 8" > > disks...[ from ] a DEC Minc 11. > > A MINC-11 is just a PDP-11 in a special box that lets you mount > laboratory modules in the front and connect lab I/O leads inside > and from module to module. It also came with drivers for numerous > modules and typically an IBV11 GPIB card. > > > Using PUTR, I have tried mounting the disk as /RX01 and /RT11, > > /FOREIGN, and even /OS8 at separate times... > > It's not OS8. It might be RT11, but AFAIK, all MINCs shipped with RX02 > drives and those are an odd duck for format. You will probably need a > real RX02 drive to read them. It's not a software formatting issue, it's > a hardware formatting issue. You are getting data errors in all likelyhood > because your hardware can't decode the bits themselves. Changing tools > won't help. ISTR the headers are single density, but the data portion of > the track is double density, but I've never tried to read them in anything > but a real RX02 drive. But would the RX02 drive write such headers to an RX01 disk? Actually, these are punched as `flippies'. - don > If you have the real hardware, you could copy the files onto RX01 disks > and read _them_ in your PC. > > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > From kapteynr at cboe.com Fri Apr 20 16:20:32 2001 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF07F9DCD2@msx1.cboe.com> I am in on a group purchase if it is feasible. I would be happy to just get few interesting S100 cards. An IMSAI as a "spare" for my Altair would be nice. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Beaudry [SMTP:r_beaudry@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:55 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. Anybody else interested in a group purchase? Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his mind?? --------- I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. ------------ Rich B. From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Apr 20 16:08:41 2001 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The guy lives in Lynnwood, WA. I just called him and he says that he doesn't want to sell them as a lot and that he plans to inventory them and "hold off a bit until the market recovers". On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. > > > > Anybody else interested in a group purchase? > > > > Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could > > convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his > > mind?? > > > > --------- > > I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. > > One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and > > related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage > > computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. > > I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year > > so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to > > use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply > > of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be > > provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. > > E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. > > ------------ > > Perhaps it's some sort of scam. Just a thought. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 16:53:13 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 20, 2001 02:02:21 PM Message-ID: <200104202153.OAA24645@shell1.aracnet.com> > Likely, however, the disk in question is punched as a `flippy' so it is > unlikely that it was written as as RX02. Both drives are single sided. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 16:55:30 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: from "Doug Salot" at Apr 20, 2001 05:08:41 PM Message-ID: <200104202155.OAA24772@shell1.aracnet.com> > The guy lives in Lynnwood, WA. I just called him and he says that he > doesn't want to sell them as a lot and that he plans to inventory them and > "hold off a bit until the market recovers". Which translates to he claims he doesn't want to deal with eBay, but he obviously wants eBay prices. Something tells me he'll have the stuff in that hanger long after the end of the year when he claims to want it out of there. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 20 17:02:22 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. >> One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and >> related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage >> computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. >> I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year >> so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to >> use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply >> of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be >> provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. >> E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. >> ------------ > >Perhaps it's some sort of scam. Just a thought. It doesn't seem too up and up if he's unwilling to provide any kind of even partial list of what's inside and he's not willing to allow people inside the hangars themselves to view the items. I certainly wouldn't fork up any kind of cash without something attesting to the supposed contents! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 20 17:05:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 20, 1 12:41:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2216 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010420/6836e555/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 20 17:10:49 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> from "John Ott" at Apr 20, 1 02:37:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1234 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010420/d5b9403d/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Apr 20 17:15:32 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: "from Rich Beaudry at Apr 20, 2001 03:55:01 pm" Message-ID: <200104202215.RAA23981@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Count me in for some spare Cromemco S100 boards if available, and a IMSAI or ALTAIR if reasonably priced (not ebay priced). Of course, what i'm particularily looking for is a PDP 8m or 8f. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. > > Anybody else interested in a group purchase? > > Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could > convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his > mind?? > > --------- > I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. > One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and > related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage > computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. > I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year > so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to > use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply > of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be > provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. > E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. > ------------ > > Rich B. > From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 20 13:21:02 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: F/A: T3200, T1000XE and SLT 286 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010420221923.ZQVX15395.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> This is heavy dark brown toshiba laptop. It is stock configuration and fall within this 10 years rule (11 years) Two one 8 and one 16bit ISA slots, 286 12MHz, EGA resolution plamsa, 1.44MB, defect-free 40MB (non-standard), 1MB ram. All working 3 fans and very quiet. Very clean inside and out, only missing flip down door for the i/o ports, few days ago replaced the cmos battery. I ship the laptops at my expense. I also have Compaq SLT 286 /w no battery pack, 1.6MB, 80MB, poor case condition (cracked at rear screw holes corners, missing hinge covers and SLT PSU brick with wobbly plug laptop end but both PSU and laptop functions if you overlook that defects. I also have T1000XE w/ total dead batteries inside (two small ones and main battery) and out but besides that XT laptop, it has ext. 1.44MB FD drive and 20MB HD (IDE 2.5"). I jumpstarted this T1000XE w/ good 7.2V battery pack and checked out its stuff, bit scuffed on external case, but it have Toshiba carrying bag. All fine. Singly or all three laptops. Trades wanted for Mac especially parts for 6100, 7100 or 8100 Power Mac. More especially 7100 which I have, WTB: HPV card, cdrom rails, etc. Also looking for LC 475 or 605 motherboard w/ vram pair installed. These boards doesn't function if it has no vram. As well as looking for ADB cables and one ADB mice. Not wish to post them on Ebay as they charges back to sellers and I don't have credit cards or something like that. Cheers, Wizard From vance at ikickass.org Fri Apr 20 17:38:06 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I certainly wouldn't go further than plunking down a fiver for the whole lot with no knowledge of its contents. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. > >> One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and > >> related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage > >> computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. > >> I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year > >> so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to > >> use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply > >> of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be > >> provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. > >> E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. > >> ------------ > > > >Perhaps it's some sort of scam. Just a thought. > > It doesn't seem too up and up if he's unwilling to provide > any kind of even partial list of what's inside and he's not willing > to allow people inside the hangars themselves to view the items. I > certainly wouldn't fork up any kind of cash without something > attesting to the supposed contents! > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 17:45:49 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: <200104202153.OAA24645@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Likely, however, the disk in question is punched as a `flippy' so it is > > unlikely that it was written as as RX02. > > Both drives are single sided. > > Zane Had I thought once more about DEC, I'd have realized that! - don From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 17:46:49 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR Message-ID: <00b201c0c9ec$527afab0$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Don Maslin > I have been asked to see if I can transfer the contents of some 8" > disks to PC compatible disks. A CP/M disk has offered no challenge, > but I am stopped dead on a disk whose label indicates that it was > for use on a DEC Minc 11. Are you sure they are RX01 (single density) and not RX02 (double density but m2fm)? The latter is not readable on anything nonDEC compatable. > Using AnaDisk, I am able to determine that there are 26x128 byte > sectors per track, but with a data error message for each sector. > Considering some of DEC's strange format characteristics I am not > too surprised that AnaDisk has a problem with it. But PUTR's > problems do surprise me. Another disk gives exactly the same result. > It is certainly possible that the disk is simply bad, but could there > possibly be some other operating system format that is also 26x128 > but does not respond to PUTR and the options that I have tried. the RX02 has SD header and DD data, NONE of the IC controllers can read that. > Thanks for any hints that you can offer. find a PDP-11 (MIC-11 is a PDP11 with lab interfaces). Allison From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 20 13:48:26 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Saw this...IBM Model 3172 black box w/ keypad and one 1.44MB FD. In-Reply-To: <200104202153.OAA24645@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 20, 2001 02:02:21 PM Message-ID: <20010420224648.BGDG6402.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi, What is it? Google turned up some bits but I'd like to hear more fully described for this thing ie: Will it run DOS linux or what if it is nonstandard w/ MCA slots machine? What specs in it? So far found very little spec info. Such as type of memory used, etc all that bitty gritty stuff. Cheers, Wizard From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 17:51:39 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > I have been asked to see if I can transfer the contents of some 8" > > disks to PC compatible disks. A CP/M disk has offered no challenge, > > but I am stopped dead on a disk whose label indicates that it was > > for use on a DEC Minc 11. ________O/_______ O\ > Thing is, though, every floppy-based MINC I have ever heard of has RX02 > drives. The standard format for those is 26 _256 byte_ sectors/track, but > using DEC's strange double-density encoding. The only things that can > read them are either a DEC RX02, or one of the 3rd party controllers (the > only ones I've seen are for Q-bus) that were designed to read RX02 disks. > AFAIK, no standard single-chip floppy controller can read them. > > -tony May I assume that the RX02 drives, per se, are not the cause of the read problem, but rather it is the floppy controller? This would seem reasonable since the RX02s can reputedly read RX01 diskettes. - don From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 20 18:22:12 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: HP 98730 DaVinci Framebuffer ? In-Reply-To: <20000420153436.A18706@sd160.local> References: <3.0.1.16.20010419090055.4787e432@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20010414022106.A229@sd160.local> <3.0.1.16.20010419090055.4787e432@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010420182212.3f1f2b2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:34 PM 4/20/00 +0300, you wrote: >On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 09:00:55AM -0500, Joe wrote: >> Jarkko, >> >> >> I can't help you with the software and docs but I have a 98730 also. I >> thought it was just a card when I bought it on E-bay but was real surprised >> when the seller wanted $40+ to ship it! > >I guess that would be a correct figure.. > >> I've opened it up and checked it >> out inside. It's quite a piece of work! I don't have the cable of the >> interface card for mine so it's just gathering dust at the moment. > >What I'd also like to get is a list of the cards (ID:s etc.). OK I have a list of the cards somewhere. I'll try to find it and post them. FWIW I wouldn't be surprised if this one doesn't have the 3D HW. It's pretty full. I think >it's possible to extend it with 3D hw and the like. A funny snippet of >information: in console mode (connected to a 9000/300) everytime the >screen scrolls or prints something the fb makes these weird, pretty >silent sounds. It sounds like it's powered by tiny hamsters in tiny workout >wheels. > >Anyway, I assume you have the interface card, right ? No, I don't, that's one reason that it's gathering dust. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 20 18:58:56 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> References: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010420185856.3f1f7c22@mailhost.intellistar.net> John, First, I'm wouldn't worry about the reliability of a HP-85. They seem to run forever and I expect there will be plenty of them that will out live me! Surplus HP-85 are plentiful and relatively cheap. I'm grab several for spares, find a supply of printer belts and learn how to repair the tape drives (or better yet, get a compatible disk drive and transfer everything to disk). Then you should be set to run forever. Second, IF I was really determined to replace the HP-85, I would replace it with another HP such as a HP 9000 series 200. A 9826 or 9836 would be an excellant choice. I would not use a non-HP machine. It would be a major job to translate HP BASIC to something that would run on another machine. For one thing, HPs use BCD arithmetic instead of binary so they'll much more accurate than most other machines unless they use special software. In addition, HP BASIC has lots of control statements that simply aren't available on most other machines. Then too you would have to consider how to make and operate interfaces that are capable of doing what the HP interfaces do. If I did go to a 9826 or 9836, I would stock up on spare machines, disk drives and whatever else I needed. These are also relatively plentiiful and cheap (FOR THE TIME BEING!) Joe At 02:37 PM 4/20/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hello - > >My HP 85 is growing long in the tooth. I want to replace it with >something more modern BUT just as reliable/dependable (e.g. doesn't >crash). I'm afraid when it does break I won't be able to find parts to >repair it. It's being used in a working research lab. I use it to >control a rack of electronic gear (e.g. frequency synthesizer, dynamic >signal analyzer, network analyzer, etc.) so I don't need anything fancy >just bullet proof and reliable. This means windows and macs are out. > >What's your opinion. > >john > >-- > >************************************************************************ >* * * >* John Ott * Email: jott@hamming.ee.nd.edu * >* Dept. Electrical Engineering * * >* 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * >* University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * >* Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * Fax: (219) 631-9924 * >* * * >************************************************************************ > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 17:51:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR Message-ID: <00c901c0c9ee$6d3604b0$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Don Maslin >> If the disk is from a MINC-11, then it was almost definitly running RT-11. >> However, I suspect it was an RX02 drive that it was written in. > >Likely, however, the disk in question is punched as a `flippy' so it is >unlikely that it was written as as RX02. Rx02 was single sided so flippy is possible. the real test would be on a rx02! Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 20 18:02:26 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 20, 1 03:51:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2456 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010421/b5c90368/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 18:28:56 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR Message-ID: <00de01c0c9f2$a1667950$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Don Maslin > >May I assume that the RX02 drives, per se, are not the cause of the >read problem, but rather it is the floppy controller? This would seem >reasonable since the RX02s can reputedly read RX01 diskettes. RX02 is a custom format that only DEC did (or DEC compatable) and it's single density header, 256byte double density (m2fm) from a 2901 based microcontroller. Soooo, it is caused byt the RX02! FYI the RX02 can read RX01 but RX01 cannot read RX02 unless the RX02 formatted the media as RX01. RX02 is DUAL density whereas the RX01 is single. Allison From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 18:52:18 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: <00b201c0c9ec$527afab0$ca779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Don Maslin > > I have been asked to see if I can transfer the contents of some 8" > > disks to PC compatible disks. A CP/M disk has offered no challenge, > > but I am stopped dead on a disk whose label indicates that it was > > for use on a DEC Minc 11. > > > Are you sure they are RX01 (single density) and not RX02 (double density > but m2fm)? As I see it now, they must be! - don > The latter is not readable on anything nonDEC compatable. > > > Using AnaDisk, I am able to determine that there are 26x128 byte > > sectors per track, but with a data error message for each sector. > > Considering some of DEC's strange format characteristics I am not > > too surprised that AnaDisk has a problem with it. But PUTR's > > problems do surprise me. Another disk gives exactly the same result. > > It is certainly possible that the disk is simply bad, but could there > > possibly be some other operating system format that is also 26x128 > > but does not respond to PUTR and the options that I have tried. > > > the RX02 has SD header and DD data, NONE of the IC controllers can > read that. > > > Thanks for any hints that you can offer. > > find a PDP-11 (MIC-11 is a PDP11 with lab interfaces). > > Allison > > > > From claudew at videotron.ca Fri Apr 20 18:55:26 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS References: Message-ID: <00ad01c0c9f5$5ee4d740$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Well..."Hundreds of H/Z 100" sounds like a lot to find in a single place...and "staggering" sounds funny... Id like to see some pictures of that... "No list and no viewing"....hmmmm..... Even 5er is a lot for whats "behind the door of haircraft hanger #1"...... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Vance Dereksen To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS > > I certainly wouldn't go further than plunking down a fiver for the whole > lot with no knowledge of its contents. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > > I just purchased 5 Condo Aircraft Hangers at our local Airport. > > >> One hanger has a collection of hundreds of H/Z 100 computers and > > >> related parts Also there are many IMSAI, ALTAIR and other Vintage > > >> computers plus cards and related parts. The amount is staggering. > > >> I need to get this stuff sold hopefully before the end of the year > > >> so I can get it rented for Aircraft purposes. I do not intend to > > >> use E-Bay at this time. I am also going to add myown extensive supply > > >> of H/Z 100 stuff and S100 items to this pile. No lists will be > > >> provided and no viewing. Send me an E-Mail or phone me. > > >> E-mail to larryc@gte.net phone 425 774 2981. > > >> ------------ > > > > > >Perhaps it's some sort of scam. Just a thought. > > > > It doesn't seem too up and up if he's unwilling to provide > > any kind of even partial list of what's inside and he's not willing > > to allow people inside the hangars themselves to view the items. I > > certainly wouldn't fork up any kind of cash without something > > attesting to the supposed contents! > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 19:01:42 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: ________O/_______ O\ > The RX02 'drive' is a lot more that what is normally meant by a disk > drive. It's a rackmount chassis containing 2 floppy drive mechanisms > (these are standard, 77 track units, but without the normal circuit > boards on them), a power supply, and 2 DEC-designed PCBs. The lower PCB > contains the electronics you'd normally expect to find on a floppy drive > (stepper motor drivers, read amplifier, write driver, etc). The upper PCB > is the disk controller -- it's an embedded computer using 2 2901 ALU > chips, 3 2911 sequencers (or are they 2909s -- I don't have the prints to > hand), 1K of control store ROM, RAM, TTL, and so on. This communicates > with the interface card in the Qbus slot (or Unibus, or Omnibus, or..) > via a special TTL level serial link. > > There is some buffer RAM on the controller board in the drive box. The > interface can send commands to transfer the contents of the RAM to/from > the host computer, or to read/write a given sector on the disk to/from > the RAM. Reading a sector is thus a 2-stage operation. First you send the > command to read the sector into the buffer RAM on the controller board. > Then you send the command to transfer the RAM contents to the host. > Writing is much the same in reverse. > > Point is, the RX02 data format is determined by the microcode on the > controller board in the RX02 chassis itself. It can basically do 2 > formats -- the special RX02 one, and an RX01 one, which is compatible > with other manufacturer's single-density disks (IBM 3740, etc). That's > why an RX02 can read (and write) RX01 disks. The reverse is not true, and > nor is it true that other machines that can read/write RX01s can read RX02s. > > > > reasonable since the RX02s can reputedly read RX01 diskettes. > > It can. In much the same way that many double-density systems can read > single-density disks. Thanks Tony! I am a lot more knowledgeable now than when I started this exercise. And thanks to all the others for their helpful input also. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 19:11:30 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: <00de01c0c9f2$a1667950$ca779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > RX02 is a custom format that only DEC did (or DEC compatable) > and it's single density header, 256byte double density (m2fm) > from a 2901 based microcontroller. The DD part sounds rather like what Altos used on their 8" DD disks, and which no PC FDC that I know of can read. I doubt that they did the SD header part though. Have to fire up my Sierra (Altos clone) and see if it can read the RX02 stuff - or at least look at it with DU. > Soooo, it is caused byt the RX02! FYI the RX02 can read RX01 > but RX01 cannot read RX02 unless the RX02 formatted the media > as RX01. RX02 is DUAL density whereas the RX01 is single. Gotcha! - don > Allison > > > From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 16:24:26 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: OT: 25 SIGNS THAT YOU'VE Had TOO MUCH OF THE 90's AND 2000 In-Reply-To: <15069.57491.374499.315077@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <619.510T1300T13444857optimus@canit.se> Dave McGuire skrev: >On April 18, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: >> >> 22. You wake up at 2am to go to the bathroom and check your E-mail >> >> on your way back to bed. >> [Hangs head in shame] I've done this.... *sigh* > Hell, I did this LAST NIGHT. And the night before... Waking up at 2 AM would imply having slept prior to that, which I consider unsound. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Kimagure Orange Road inneh?ller v?ldigt mycket ton?rsromantik, extremt mycket ton?rsromantik faktiskt. Men det ?r samtidigt en av de st?rsta klassikerna inom shojo, kanske till och med den absolut st?rsta. - Animanga.nu From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 19:58:32 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touchpad? In-Reply-To: <20010420215701.53f61cd1.18933@nifty.ne.jp> Message-ID: <934.511T1600T1185393optimus@canit.se> =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5KayEhTVswbBsoQg== skrev: Nice name you've got there. =) >I'd like to know what was the world's first notebook PC with >touchpad (or glidepoint, trackpad, whatever). >My friend insist that it was PowerBook 520/540 from Apple, >but I doubt it. I know Gavilan laptop had one, but I don't >know it was truely mouse-like pointing device or not. >Does anyone know other notebook (laptop) PC with touchpad >prior to PowerBook? The Atari ST Book (which was not a PC, but a notebook Atari) had a rather exotic pointing device. Could anyone elaborate on how it operated? I suppose http://www.atari-history.org/ has got more info. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 20:19:01 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <200104200329.UAA05864@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <688.511T50T1393883optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> Also found this deal today >> >> 100$ takes all >> 4-6 AS400 9404 models >> about 35+ IBM 3164 terminals with keyboards, dust screens >> for terminals, >> network blocks etc. >> Tested one of the 9404 and powers up fine... others >> untested... >> they do include drives, tape units, cpu's, memory etc !!!! >BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you might as well ignore >them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be interested in one :^) What OS? Could AS/400s run anything but OS/400? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 20:21:06 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <200104200102.f3K122V18079@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <277.511T300T1413513optimus@canit.se> Eric Dittman skrev: >Does anyone have a spare Infoserver 100/150 >for sale? What is an Infoserver? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 20:40:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <200104200046.RAA03696@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <526.511T600T1603785optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >DECstation 5000's. Only really good for running NetBSD. They're a >TurboChannel system. I'd recommend looking at http://www.netbsd.org under >the PMAX port for more info. Depending on how well they're loaded, I'd >guess $25-100. And more likely $25, unless they come with monitors. =) However, why are they only suited for NetBSD? Granted, that's what mine runs, but why not OpenBSD, Linux or even Ultrix? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 19:47:00 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR Message-ID: <00f101c0c9fd$2136eb10$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Don Maslin >The DD part sounds rather like what Altos used on their 8" DD disks, >and which no PC FDC that I know of can read. I doubt that they did >the SD header part though. Have to fire up my Sierra (Altos clone) >and see if it can read the RX02 stuff - or at least look at it with DU. I bet the altos can't. The mixed density format is something only DEC did. Intel also used M2FM (rather than MFM) for double density for the 2xx series development systems. it was also incompatable with everything and used 3000 series bit slice. Allison From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Apr 20 19:57:26 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <277.511T300T1413513optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 21, 2001 02:21:06 AM Message-ID: <200104210057.SAA29353@calico.litterbox.com> An infoserver is a small dedicated computer that you can hang disks on and then mount them over the network. In VMS this is done with a network driver called LAD - local area disk. It works pretty well, although speed is nothing to write home about. To my knowledge the infoserver 100 *only* speaks LAD, so if you've got ideas about mounting it from the unix world via NFS, forget about them. There was a LAD driver for Ultrix though. These things are from the days when CD drives were expensive, basically. You could put any external scsi device on them (I think even tape drives) but we used them for CDROM distribution at the university where I dealt with them. > >Does anyone have a spare Infoserver 100/150 > >for sale? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From r.stek at snet.net Fri Apr 20 20:00:37 2001 From: r.stek at snet.net (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? Message-ID: The Connecticut Computer Club has been meeting monthly (except July & August) since 1976 (and maybe '75 - I was up in Saskatchewan until '82). Steve Ciarcia started it and we met at a local library until about 1983. Since then we turned it into a dinner meeting (everywhere from Denny's and all-you-can-eat places to nice steak houses and Italian restaurants). When Steve was an editor at BYTE, he usally brought a current project and was always looking for ideas for his monthly projects (I led the HAL-4 brainwave biofeedback unit design group), but everyone participates in various and sundry ways. It's much more a hardware group with several engineers from Prattt & Whitney and other local engineering shops. But, and most importantly as acknowledged by everyone, it's almost always a good meal! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols BTW, Steve thinks I'm nuts for spending so much time on the 8 bitters! From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 21:01:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment Message-ID: <698.511T700T1814573optimus@canit.se> I often walk by a company dealing with artificial intelligence, who have the good taste of decorating their offices with Rietveld chairs and vintage computer equipment. Today, I happened to notice a very sexy Xerox machine. It was a black, rather fat tower with a very black front with relief stripes. On top of it sat an equally black diskdrive, its front as black the computer. I think it would fold down to reveal the actual slot. The back featured a number of very large blanking plates for graphics (I think a D15) and AUI. What kind of system was it, when was it released, what OS did it run? Can I marry it? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Computer programmers know how to use their hardware. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 20 21:19:40 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Zenith CPM-80 manuals???? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010420211940.237f3d4a@mailhost.intellistar.net> I bought a huge pile of manuals today. (Including LOTS of HP manuals :-) Two of the manuals are marked Heath Zenith and they contain unretouched copies of Digital Research's various CPM-80 version 2.2.04 manuals. Only the outer cover pages of the manuals have been changed. They are now black with white and grey lettering and Heath/Zenith's name on them. Some of the manuals are still in their original shrink wrap! There are also two original hard sectored 5 1/4" floppy disks in the back of one manual. The binders are also black with white and grey lettering. Does anyone know what system these are for? Unlike the Z-100 manuals these are completely generic. There's no mention of what system they're intended for. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 20:30:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <688.511T50T1393883optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 21, 2001 02:19:01 AM Message-ID: <200104210130.SAA31189@shell1.aracnet.com> > >BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you might as well ignore > >them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be interested in one :^) > > What OS? Could AS/400s run anything but OS/400? They'll run OS/400 as well as something else which, IIRC, has something to do with backwards compatibility with System/36. ISTR, that there was also a version of OS/2 for them, but I don't think it was ever released. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 20:32:36 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <526.511T600T1603785optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 21, 2001 02:40:12 AM Message-ID: <200104210132.SAA31207@shell1.aracnet.com> > And more likely $25, unless they come with monitors. =) > However, why are they only suited for NetBSD? Granted, that's what mine runs, > but why not OpenBSD, Linux or even Ultrix? I guess OpenBSD does have a PMAX report, didn't realize that. Is there a Linux port? Even if there is I'm guessing NetBSD still offers the best support. As for Ultrix, good luck getting a Y2k compatible version (yes, it is possible), and what about licenses. Zane From dittman at dittman.net Fri Apr 20 20:41:03 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <277.511T300T1413513optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 21, 2001 02:21:06 AM Message-ID: <200104210141.f3L1f4s23139@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Does anyone have a spare Infoserver 100/150 > >for sale? > > What is an Infoserver? A disk/CD server make by Digital. It is made to serve CDs to VMS systems. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 20 21:56:39 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Zenith CPM-80 manuals???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010420211940.237f3d4a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010420215639.2557bbc6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Never mind. I figured it out. They're for the Z/H-89. At 09:19 PM 4/20/01 -0500, you wrote: > I bought a huge pile of manuals today. (Including LOTS of HP manuals :-) >Two of the manuals are marked Heath Zenith and they contain unretouched >copies of Digital Research's various CPM-80 version 2.2.04 manuals. Only >the outer cover pages of the manuals have been changed. They are now black >with white and grey lettering and Heath/Zenith's name on them. Some of the >manuals are still in their original shrink wrap! There are also two ^H^H^H^ make that FOUR original disks :-) Joe >original hard sectored 5 1/4" floppy disks in the back of one manual. The >binders are also black with white and grey lettering. Does anyone know what >system these are for? Unlike the Z-100 manuals these are completely >generic. There's no mention of what system they're intended for. > > Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Apr 20 21:58:23 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment In-Reply-To: <698.511T700T1814573optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010420215823.254f51fa@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:01 AM 4/21/01 +0100, you wrote: >I often walk by a company dealing with artificial intelligence, who have the >good taste of decorating their offices with Rietveld chairs and vintage >computer equipment. Today, I happened to notice a very sexy Xerox machine. It >was a black, rather fat tower with a very black front with relief stripes. On >top of it sat an equally black diskdrive, its front as black the computer. I >think it would fold down to reveal the actual slot. The back featured a number >of very large blanking plates for graphics (I think a D15) and AUI. >What kind of system was it, when was it released, what OS did it run? >Can I >marry it? Only if you live in California! From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Fri Apr 20 20:51:15 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Saw this...IBM Model 3172 black box w/ keypad and one 1.44MB FD. In-Reply-To: <20010420224648.BGDG6402.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: I don't know the arcitecture, but its purpose is to connect IBM mainframes with an ethernet network. -Bob On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Hi, > > What is it? > > Google turned up some bits but I'd like to hear more fully described > for this thing ie: Will it run DOS linux or what if it is > nonstandard w/ MCA slots machine? What specs in it? So far found > very little spec info. Such as type of memory used, etc all that > bitty gritty stuff. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Apr 20 21:06:14 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s References: <688.511T50T1393883optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002601c0ca07$a616d570$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "healyzh" Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Re: AS400 9404 /s > healyzh skrev: > > >> Also found this deal today > >> > >> 100$ takes all > >> 4-6 AS400 9404 models > >> about 35+ IBM 3164 terminals with keyboards, dust screens > >> for terminals, > >> network blocks etc. > >> Tested one of the 9404 and powers up fine... others > >> untested... > >> they do include drives, tape units, cpu's, memory etc !!!! > > >BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you might as well ignore > >them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be interested in one :^) > > What OS? Could AS/400s run anything but OS/400? I found a few references today to a linux/400 but is sounds like you need to have OS/400 running first. Any guesses to the weight of these machines? If the machine already has OS/400 on it is does it expire? Does IBM offer a hobbyist licence? From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 20 21:15:07 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: <00f101c0c9fd$2136eb10$ca779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Don Maslin > >The DD part sounds rather like what Altos used on their 8" DD disks, > >and which no PC FDC that I know of can read. I doubt that they did > >the SD header part though. Have to fire up my Sierra (Altos clone) > >and see if it can read the RX02 stuff - or at least look at it with DU. > > > I bet the altos can't. The mixed density format is something only DEC > did. Agreed, but I might be able to read sector content using DU. - don > Intel also used M2FM (rather than MFM) for double density for the 2xx > series > development systems. it was also incompatable with everything and > used 3000 series bit slice. > > Allison > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Apr 20 21:26:23 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <200104210132.SAA31207@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 20, 2001 06:32:36 pm" Message-ID: <200104210226.f3L2QNe30049@bg-tc-ppp750.monmouth.com> > I guess OpenBSD does have a PMAX report, didn't realize that. Is there a > Linux port? Even if there is I'm guessing NetBSD still offers the best > support. > > As for Ultrix, good luck getting a Y2k compatible version (yes, it is > possible), and what about licenses. > > Zane Well, with a little work any binaries that aren't y2k compliant can usually be upgraded with a little work. /bin/date was one with a problem in SunOS... fixed in 4.1.4's y2k patches -- but it can be replaced with the one from any *BSD or GNU usually. troff had problems with the macros for the date. The fixes from the SunOS or GNU ones would probably fix the Ultrix ones as well. etc... The big fun happens in 2038. I hope to retire well before that one hits. That'll render our current antiques like my sparc2's pretty useless. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From Galih.Chandra at ag-it.com Fri Apr 20 22:09:34 2001 From: Galih.Chandra at ag-it.com (Galih Chandra) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: migrating from X.25 into IP based Message-ID: <15EDCA7656ADCF40BDED2D0A553282FF07D9F5@osaka.ag-it.com> dear all, I want to ask about migrating X.25 into IP based network... I try to migrate the protocol for a banking application in zero downtime... is there any way that I could do it ? or perhaps is there any workaround for it ??? using extra device ??? thanks in advance. regards. From dittman at dittman.net Fri Apr 20 22:33:00 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <200104210057.SAA29353@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Apr 20, 2001 06:57:26 PM Message-ID: <200104210333.f3L3X0h23374@narnia.int.dittman.net> > These things are from the days when CD drives were expensive, basically. > You could put any external scsi device on them (I think even tape drives) > but we used them for CDROM distribution at the university where I dealt with > them. Not just because CD drives were expensive, but also because for certain VMS systems there just wasn't an easy way to hook up a CD drive (depending on the bus and storage options). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 20 22:32:08 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? Message-ID: <3AE0FF38.EFDC5A84@internet1.net> Hello all, Today I stopped by Goodwill on my way home. I saw a rather odd piece of IBM equipment. It looks like a large black IBM typewriter connected to a large black box by a heavy cable. It is labeled "Mag Card II". What is it? I doubt they'll ever sell it, as they have it at $59!! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Apr 20 22:39:58 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) References: <200104201648.JAA10924@chiton.ucsd.edu> Message-ID: <3AE1010E.405DCC96@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi again, Thanks for those who commented on this power issue. This evening, I have given it a shot using my spare parts. I took the box that has the thick 3-phase cable. I opened the rear of that box and removed this cable in order to attach one that I can actually plug in somewhere. This is what I saw: +----------------------------------------------------+ | -------------------- | | +--------------------+ / GND * \ | | | | / \ | | | | |Bl* *Br| | | | | | Bk* *Bk | | | | | +----------------------+ | | | | | | | | +------------------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------------+ +------------------------+ | | | +-----------------------------------------------------+ After opening the cover, the cable is hooked to 5 screws. There is one yellow/green protective ground wire, even laveled GND. Then there is a blue (Bl) wire, two black (Bk) wires and one brown (Br) wire. I probably don't understand this color coding and I was also surprized to find four not three wires besides protective ground. I then hooked this up as follows: P1 ------------* Bl * Bk GND ----------------* GND * Bk P2 ------------*Br that is I connected the protective ground with my protective ground wire, and P1 to where the blue line used to be and P2 where the Brown line connected. I left the ex-black connectors open. Closed the cover and plugged it in. This cover has three control lights labeled PL1, PL2, and PL3. I noticed that only PL1 was lit. Then I pushed this T shaped main switch in to engage and using a potentiometer I checked for AC and DC potentials at about every receptacle on this box. What I found was disappointing. I did not find any DC potential anywhere. (I may not have tried every combination though.) Is it possible that this box does not have any bridge rectifier in it so all I can expect is AC here and there? Is there any documentation around what all these many receptacles are for and how the pins are connected? Finally, I recognized three standard computer receptacles, you know, the ones we used to have on PC's power units and where one would plug in the monitor power. These receptacles look as follows: 3 +------+ / || \ | | | || || | +----------+ 1 2 I think what one would expect is that 3 is protective GND, and 1 is Null (N) and 2 is 110 V phase (P) (or 1 P and 2 N, doesn't matter.) However, that was not what I found. I found that two of the receptacles has 110 V between 2 and 3 (but not 1 and 2), and the third receptacle had 110 V between each 1 and 3 and 2 and 3 and 220 V between 1 and 2. So, something is screwy. I stopped fiddling for tonight. May be you have some suggestions about what I should do. My plan is to try connecting things differently, using the two Black lines instead of the Brown line ... but I'm fairly clueless. Also, I am not sure I hooked up my circuit breaker box in my basement correctly. I have one spare 220 V 60 A 2-phase (dryer hookup) line in my basement. I attached a 2-phase circuit breaker box as follows: B C W R L O H E A P I D C P T | K P E | | E | | | R | | | | | +-------+ | | | | +---+ | +--+ | | | | | | o*oooo*ooo | | | =*============== | | | ===================* The 60 A uplink line comes with four wires, a black, a red, a white and a blank copper line. I tested that black is P1, red is P2, white is N and the copper line's got to be protective GND. As you can see, for lack of any other connector facility in the breaker box I have connected the white line (N) with the protective GND line. Should I have done this differently, like leave the N line open? However, this shouldn't have an effect on hooking up the VAX, or should it? Would I not need to connect some N wire so that those receptacles are powered correctly? any thoughts appreciated, -Gunther From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Apr 20 22:40:30 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <200104210333.f3L3X0h23374@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: Don't forget these worked with Ultrix, too. Although for most ultrix systems getting a SCSI CDROM attached was an option. On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > These things are from the days when CD drives were expensive, basically. > > You could put any external scsi device on them (I think even tape drives) > > but we used them for CDROM distribution at the university where I dealt with > > them. > > Not just because CD drives were expensive, but also because > for certain VMS systems there just wasn't an easy way to > hook up a CD drive (depending on the bus and storage options). > -- From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Apr 20 23:03:04 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:33 2005 Subject: BCD accuracy (was: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010420185856.3f1f7c22@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010420204250.00c092e0@pacbell.net> At 06:58 PM 4/20/01 -0500, Joe Rigdon wrote: >...For >one thing, HPs use BCD arithmetic instead of binary so they'll much more >accurate than most other machines unless they use special software. ... I've heard this claim many times that BCD is more accurate. I'm I just not understanding something? Unless you are doing financial work where the fractional numbers tend to be inherently decimal, BCD arithmetic, for a given number of bytes of storage, is less accurate than binary. As a BCD byte can represent only 100 states vs 256 for binary, you are going to lose more than one bit of accuracy per byte of storage. Over a typical 13 nibble mantissa, it comes to more than 8b wasted. Actually, it is worse than that, for a couple reason having to do with normalization of the numbers. Firstly, a binary representation can scale the mantissa to retain every bit possible, whereas a BCD representation has a 4b granularity on the shifting, so it probably wastes two more bits there. Also, IEEE floats have an implied MSB for normalized numbers, so you get one extra bit there. So now you're probably up to 11 wasted bits in a double precision (8B) BCD number. Perhaps you can argue back nearly two bits because the exponent for a BCD number doesn't have to have as many bits as for a binary number as each count of the exponent results in roughly four bits shifting of the mantissa. Still, overall, it is still 10 wasted bits. So, OK, 0.1 (base 10) can't be exactly represented in a binary format, but 0.11111 (base 16) can't be represented exactly in an 8B BCD representation. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 23:37:35 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 In-Reply-To: <200104210141.f3L1f4s23139@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 20, 2001 08:41:03 PM Message-ID: <200104210437.VAA00658@shell1.aracnet.com> > A disk/CD server make by Digital. It is made to > serve CDs to VMS systems. There were also clients for DOS/Windows and Macintosh. Zane From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 20 23:44:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <1183.511T1500T3445265optimus@canit.se> Mark Gregory skrev: >Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of >Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years >of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years >they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users >group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members >actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET >Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. >Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the >_second_ oldest Commodore club. >I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older >clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic >and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? S.U.G.A. has been active since 1986 and is now Sweden's oldest Amiga user group (before AUGS folded, one was never certain), and we're still having meetings every week. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Haben Sie schon mal einen Wegweiser gesehen, der selbst den Weg geht, den er weist? --- Ludwig XV (K?nig von Frankreich, 1710-1774) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 20 23:40:28 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <002601c0ca07$a616d570$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Apr 20, 2001 10:06:14 PM Message-ID: <200104210440.VAA00704@shell1.aracnet.com> > Any guesses to the weight of these machines? Well, they range in size from where you can pick them up and carry them on a sales call, up to multi-rack. Then there is all the peripherals that might be included with a system such as the terminals. > If the machine already has OS/400 on it is does it expire? Hmmm, good question. I don't know. > Does IBM offer a hobbyist licence? No. IBM is not what I would call a hobbyist friendly company. Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 23:41:59 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: DEC Infoserver 100/150 Message-ID: <013901c0ca1e$b9189700$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Eric Dittman >> These things are from the days when CD drives were expensive, basically. >> You could put any external scsi device on them (I think even tape drives) >> but we used them for CDROM distribution at the university where I dealt with >> them. > >Not just because CD drives were expensive, but also because >for certain VMS systems there just wasn't an easy way to >hook up a CD drive (depending on the bus and storage options). True but the first reason given is the one that was DEC designed. At the time the Infoserver was flown a Cdreader was 1200-1800$ for a 1x! and it was thought a group could effectively share a library of them. In the late 80s early ninties that was very true. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 23:39:32 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR Message-ID: <013801c0ca1e$b8ac1990$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Don Maslin >> I bet the altos can't. The mixed density format is something only DEC >> did. > >Agreed, but I might be able to read sector content using DU. Nope, it's m2fm not mfm double density. Very different encoding and timing and none of the WD/NEC/Intel chips do it. Thats the part that makes it hard. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Apr 20 23:47:06 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: BCD accuracy (was: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement) Message-ID: <013a01c0ca1e$b99bf7d0$ca779a8d@ajp166> From: Jim Battle >Unless you are doing financial work where the fractional numbers tend to be >inherently decimal, BCD arithmetic, for a given number of bytes of storage, >is less accurate than binary. As a BCD byte can represent only 100 states >vs 256 for binary, you are going to lose more than one bit of accuracy per Sinppage.... Never confuse accuracy with resolution or range. Most BCD systems were less prone to truncation, rounding and other cumulative errors within their range. Binary for the number of bits gave more resolution but sometimes at the expense of accuracy. >So, OK, 0.1 (base 10) can't be exactly represented in a binary format, but >0.11111 (base 16) can't be represented exactly in an 8B BCD representation. If you meant .1 and got .11111 that would be a significant error! same for say meaning .1 and getting .09999. Allison From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Apr 21 00:17:01 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment Message-ID: <9f.1470a898.281271cd@aol.com> In a message dated 4/20/01 6:11:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, optimus@canit.se writes: > was a black, rather fat tower with a very black front with relief stripes. On > top of it sat an equally black diskdrive, its front as black the computer. I > think it would fold down to reveal the actual slot. The back featured a > number > of very large blanking plates for graphics (I think a D15) and AUI. > What kind of system was it, when was it released, what OS did it run? Can I > marry it? This sounds like a Xerox 6085 although I don't remember the case being black, more like a dark brown IIRC. If so it is the second generation Star machine, I can't remember its name right now (Daybreak? someone will correct if I am wrong). Needs it's own monitor, keyboard and mouse. Look around for those. Highly collectable. Get it if you can. If you are close to Portland I would be interested. I miss getting rid of the ones I had. Runs a Xerox operating system called Viewpoint. Look for Version 2.0. I think I have it somewhere in storage. Good luck, Fun system. You can marry it. Paxton Portland, OR From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Apr 21 00:22:25 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? Message-ID: <31.13b37750.28127311@aol.com> In a message dated 4/20/01 8:43:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, fernande@internet1.net writes: > What is it? I doubt they'll ever sell it, as they have it at $59!! Far to high a price. It is an IBM Selectric electromechanical typewriter attached to magnetic card read/writer for storage. Proprietary IBM chips. Paxton From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Apr 21 00:32:10 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment Message-ID: <8.136b191b.2812755a@aol.com> In a message dated 4/20/01 10:24:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Innfogra@aol.com writes: > > This sounds like a Xerox 6085 although I don't remember the case being black, > > more like a dark brown IIRC. If so it is the second generation Star machine, > > I can't remember its name right now (Daybreak? someone will correct if I am > wrong). > Boy, sorry for the bad form, answering my own mail. The 6085 is a Dove, not a Daybreak. Here is a great link by a listmember on identifying odd Xerox equipment. Xerox Workstation Spotter's Guide Paxton Portland, OR From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 21 00:35:18 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement In-Reply-To: <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> References: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com>; from Innfogra@aol.com on Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 05:33:39PM -0400 <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> Message-ID: >My HP 85 is growing long in the tooth. I want to replace it with >something more modern BUT just as reliable/dependable (e.g. doesn't Buy an identical spare or two. From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 20 23:53:56 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Doug Salot wrote: > The guy lives in Lynnwood, WA. I just called him and he says that he > doesn't want to sell them as a lot and that he plans to inventory them and > "hold off a bit until the market recovers". Recovers from what? He thinks people are going to start throwing money at old computers once the stock market heats up again? Prices started declining before the market burned out. Oh well, I hope he makes back what he's paying out in storage while he holds off "until the market recovers" ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 20 23:59:57 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment In-Reply-To: <698.511T700T1814573optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 21 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I often walk by a company dealing with artificial intelligence, who > have the good taste of decorating their offices with Rietveld chairs > and vintage computer equipment. Today, I happened to notice a very > sexy Xerox machine. It was a black, rather fat tower with a very black > front with relief stripes. On top of it sat an equally black > diskdrive, its front as black the computer. I think it would fold down > to reveal the actual slot. The back featured a number of very large > blanking plates for graphics (I think a D15) and AUI. What kind of > system was it, when was it released, what OS did it run? Can I marry > it? Are you sure it was black or just a very dark brown? Dimensions would help. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Apr 21 02:31:21 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: <20010420202113.93839.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010421003045.02e63bb0@mail.zipcon.net> I'd like to get a working altair 8800 m'self or possibly an imsai :) started with the altair a long time ago in a galaxy far far away :) At 01:21 PM 4/20/01 -0700, you wrote: >--- Rich Beaudry wrote: > > Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. > > > > Anybody else interested in a group purchase? > >Depends on the list. > > > Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we > could > > convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his > > mind?? > >I wrote him directly. We'll see what happens with this. My interest has been >and will continue to be older DEC stuff, but I have a little bit of Heath >equipment and I wouldn't mind an ancient micro with toggles, but I'd rather >build my own than shop eOverpay. Oh, wait! I already have. :-) > >-ethan > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Apr 21 02:33:43 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: fairly OT, but y'all may be able to help me :) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010421003144.02e66070@mail.zipcon.net> I need to test a device that uses sensors that send back a signal using a 0-20MA current. anyone know of a source of a schematic to make something to generate such in 1 ma increnemts? or have any tips??? From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Apr 21 02:37:49 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: BCD accuracy (was: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement) In-Reply-To: <013a01c0ca1e$b99bf7d0$ca779a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010421001707.00be4890@pacbell.net> At 12:47 AM 4/21/01 -0400, Allison Parent wrote: >From: Jim Battle > >Unless you are doing financial work where the fractional numbers tend to be > >inherently decimal, BCD arithmetic, for a given number of bytes of storage, > >is less accurate than binary. As a BCD byte can represent only 100 states > >vs 256 for binary, you are going to lose more than one bit of accuracy per > >Sinppage.... > >Never confuse accuracy with resolution or range. Yes, they are three different things. Range is not in question here (which is determined mostly by the exponent and base of the exponent). So we are left with accuracy and resolution (back in high school I was taught the terms accuracy and precision.). I don't know how your (accurate) statement clarifies the matter at hand. I claim that a floating point representation specifies precision and has nothing to say about accuracy (other than accuracy is limited by precision). To clarify, say a number is 175.136985. This represents my weight very precisely, but whether it is accurate or not is a different matter. >Most BCD systems were less prone to truncation, rounding and other >cumulative errors within their range. Binary for the number of bits gave >more resolution but sometimes at the expense of accuracy. Again, I must be missing something, or perhaps it is a definitional thing. I've given my definition for precision (or what you call resolution) and accuracy. I claim accuracy is largely outside the scope of a number representation. Perhaps you and others have a different definition than I do and are also internally consistent. I'd like to hear it, since I keep running into it and don't understand it. As for truncation, this is exactly the example I give below. 0.1 (decimal) is a non-repeating fraction in binary, and so might show up as 0.09999999999999 when converted back to a decimal output string. It is very conveniently and exactly representable in BCD and so won't suffer this type of problem. This is kind of unfair, because it just so happens that this example has chosen a number that matches the base. Also, although it might look wickedly different from 0.1, the error is only 10^-14. If, on the other hand, you want to know what is sin(0.1), I claim the binary representation is more precise (and thus allows more accuracy; accuracy here depends on the implementation of the trig algorithms and not inherently in the number system). The counter example is that 0.11111 (base 16) [that is, 2^-4 + 2^-8 + 2^-12 + 2^-16 + 2^-20] is exactly representable in a binary number system, but not in an 8B BCD number representation because there isn't enough precision to hold all the digits. > >So, OK, 0.1 (base 10) can't be exactly represented in a binary format, but > >0.11111 (base 16) can't be represented exactly in an 8B BCD representation. > >If you meant .1 and got .11111 that would be a significant error! same for >say meaning .1 and getting .09999. nope, I didn't mean that at all. maybe I should give up and take this to the alt.ieee.vs.bcd.floating-point newsgroup. :-) ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 21 03:03:10 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: fairly OT, but y'all may be able to help me :) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010421003144.02e66070@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: >I need to test a device that uses sensors that send back a signal using a >0-20MA current. anyone know of a source of a schematic to make something to >generate such in 1 ma increnemts? or have any tips??? How about a battery, a potentiometer, and a meter? If you want something automated and fancy, many DACs are actually current output devices that require current to voltage converters, just buffer and use the current output. Try this, took just a couple weeks for mine to arrive. Fill out a short form, business addresses only, and they ship you a free serial port based I/O module, looks like both analog and digital stuff plus their windows based software package. Looks like fun to me. From halarewich at look.ca Sat Apr 21 04:10:48 2001 From: halarewich at look.ca (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: xerox memorywriter 620 FOR FREE OR AUCTION DEPENDING ON RESPONSE Message-ID: <3AE14E98.2ED3B447@look.ca> Hi all: I have one Xerox Memorywriter typwriter / word processor to give away for the cost of shipping or if there is more than one person interested I will do a mini auction the memorywriter is in working order no manual but comes with traning manual for 620 series (original from xerox) Also have a ZDS (zenith data systems) Monochrome video monitor if anyone is interested the specs on the monitor are: model ZVM-1230-A green screen (P-31 phosphor) 110-volt, controls horizontil hold, width, verticl hight, contrast, brightness , on/off switch. CRT size and type 12" etched non glare dark tint. Video input monochrome ntsc cpmposite rca jack. Bandwith 15MHz rise time 23 nanoseconds. weight 13 lbs monitor also comes with owners manual If anyone is interested in any of the above items please let me know. for referance I live in Castlegar B.C., Canada V1N 1J5 thanx again Chris Halarewich -- # Netscape POP3 State File # This is a generated file! Do not edit. From bwit at pobox.com Sat Apr 21 04:21:40 2001 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: BCD accuracy (was: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010420204250.00c092e0@pacbell.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010420185856.3f1f7c22@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20010420143722.G4373@mastif> <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010421041853.00b1ad70@mail.ruffboy.com> Nonetheless, there is a big difference between efficient use of storage and decimal accuracy. Your last sentence sums it up perfectly, for decimal numbers BCD is a more accurate representation. Bob At 09:03 PM 4/20/2001 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:58 PM 4/20/01 -0500, Joe Rigdon wrote: >>...For >>one thing, HPs use BCD arithmetic instead of binary so they'll much more >>accurate than most other machines unless they use special software. >... > >I've heard this claim many times that BCD is more accurate. I'm I just >not understanding something? > >Unless you are doing financial work where the fractional numbers tend to >be inherently decimal, BCD arithmetic, for a given number of bytes of >storage, is less accurate than binary. As a BCD byte can represent only >100 states vs 256 for binary, you are going to lose more than one bit of >accuracy per byte of storage. Over a typical 13 nibble mantissa, it comes >to more than 8b wasted. Actually, it is worse than that, for a couple >reason having to do with normalization of the numbers. Firstly, a binary >representation can scale the mantissa to retain every bit possible, >whereas a BCD representation has a 4b granularity on the shifting, so it >probably wastes two more bits there. Also, IEEE floats have an implied >MSB for normalized numbers, so you get one extra bit there. So now you're >probably up to 11 wasted bits in a double precision (8B) BCD >number. Perhaps you can argue back nearly two bits because the exponent >for a BCD number doesn't have to have as many bits as for a binary number >as each count of the exponent results in roughly four bits shifting of the >mantissa. Still, overall, it is still 10 wasted bits. > >So, OK, 0.1 (base 10) can't be exactly represented in a binary format, but >0.11111 (base 16) can't be represented exactly in an 8B BCD representation. > >----- >Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 21 06:26:36 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: HP 98730 DaVinci Framebuffer ? Message-ID: A good amount of the manuals are still available from HP Parts surfer, can't remember address, if you can't find it let me know and I'll post it.. Similarly, if you can't order from it, I happen to work at a license HP reseller/repair place.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From vance at ikickass.org Sat Apr 21 06:36:37 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <002601c0ca07$a616d570$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Linux/400 not only requires OS/400 to install right now, but it doesn't yet exist fully. Not only that, but is this machine a POWER-based machine or a CISC? If it is a CISC your only choice is to run OLD OLD OLD OS/400. Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Iggy Drougge" > To: "healyzh" > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:00 AM > Subject: Re: AS400 9404 /s > > > > healyzh skrev: > > > > >> Also found this deal today > > >> > > >> 100$ takes all > > >> 4-6 AS400 9404 models > > >> about 35+ IBM 3164 terminals with keyboards, dust > screens > > >> for terminals, > > >> network blocks etc. > > >> Tested one of the 9404 and powers up fine... others > > >> untested... > > >> they do include drives, tape units, cpu's, memory etc > !!!! > > > > >BUT, do they include an Operating System? If not you > might as well ignore > > >them. If so, how big are they and what OS? I might be > interested in one :^) > > > > What OS? Could AS/400s run anything but OS/400? > > I found a few references today to a linux/400 but is sounds > like you need to have OS/400 running first. > > Any guesses to the weight of these machines? > > If the machine already has OS/400 on it is does it expire? > Does IBM offer a hobbyist licence? > > > From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 21 06:27:43 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <3AE1010E.405DCC96@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi again, > > Thanks for those who commented on this power issue. > > This evening, I have given it a shot using my spare parts. I took > the box that has the thick 3-phase cable. I opened the rear of that box > and removed this cable in order to attach one that I can actually > plug in somewhere. This is what I saw: > Last night, I open the lower power-supply box on my 6310, the one with the power cable going into it, and the tee-handle power switch on the side, (H405-E rev F07, FWIW). From what I could see, the three-phase power enters via the cable assembly (DEC part number 17-01806-01) and gos directly into a large, sealed, power filter. From there, it goes to the main disconnect switch operated by the tee-handle, them thru a contactor (three pole relay), then exiting via the round 19-position connector. In short, it's still three phase when it comes out of this box. Further complications exist; the various power recpticles on the rear and front are tapped off of different phases inside, presumably in an attempt to balance the draw on the three phases. Also, there is what appears to be a small low-voltage supply inside it, as well as another small circuit board that I didn't examine very closely. Since the power is switched thru a contactor, there must be controller of some sort that manages the startup of the VAX. I'll go out on a limb and say it is in the `Power & Logic Box' (H-7206A). ;) BINGO! Folks, we may have a winner in the power & logic box. I'll give it a closer look some time today, but it sure looks good from here. 156~229 input voltage, and it has a `300 volt' LED on the front. Also, there's ehough logic to control a few contactors. > > any thoughts appreciated, > -Gunther Bob From ahs at hogrelius.nu Sat Apr 21 17:20:12 2001 From: ahs at hogrelius.nu (Anders Hogrelius) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <3AE1010E.405DCC96@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > This evening, I have given it a shot using my spare parts. I took > the box that has the thick 3-phase cable. I opened the rear of that box > and removed this cable in order to attach one that I can actually > plug in somewhere. This is what I saw: > > > +----------------------------------------------------+ > | -------------------- | > | +--------------------+ / GND * \ | > | | | / \ | > | | | |Bl* *Br| | > | | | | Bk* *Bk | | > | | | +----------------------+ | > | | | | > | | | +------------------------+ | > | | | | | | > | | | | | | > | +--------------------+ +------------------------+ | > | | > +-----------------------------------------------------+ > > It might be using the european color coding which is: Yellow/Green - Protective GND Blue - 0 Black - P1 Brown - P2 Black or Black/While - P3 -- cheers, /Anders I am Pentium of Borg... -Division is futile! ************************************************************************** * Anders Hogrelius Phone : +46 21 381860 * Tessingatan 12 E-mail: anders@hogrelius.nu * SE-72216 Vasteras Web: http://www.hogrelius.nu/~ahs/ * SWEDEN From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Apr 21 08:31:35 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: <200104210440.VAA00704@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > If the machine already has OS/400 on it is does it expire? > > Hmmm, good question. I don't know. I have an IBM manual for 9404 and 9402 systems which states the operator control panel has a "movement sensor" which detects gross changes in position and causes the OS to prompt for the system password as an effort to prevent unauthorized transfer. > > Does IBM offer a hobbyist licence? > > No. IBM is not what I would call a hobbyist friendly company. > > Zane > -- From at258 at osfn.org Sat Apr 21 09:01:45 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? In-Reply-To: <3AE0FF38.EFDC5A84@internet1.net> Message-ID: It's exactly what it looks like - a typewriter connected to a mag card reader. They were supposed to be nightmares to work with. They date from 1974. Some versions were networkable. If you can find a copy of "The Romance Division" it is discussed in there. On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Hello all, > > Today I stopped by Goodwill on my way home. I saw a rather odd piece of > IBM equipment. It looks like a large black IBM typewriter connected to > a large black box by a heavy cable. It is labeled "Mag Card II". > > What is it? I doubt they'll ever sell it, as they have it at $59!! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From fernande at internet1.net Sat Apr 21 09:05:43 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? References: <31.13b37750.28127311@aol.com> Message-ID: <3AE193B7.B2C9FF54@internet1.net> I doubt they'll even be able to give it away :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Far to high a price. It is an IBM Selectric electromechanical typewriter > attached to magnetic card read/writer for storage. Proprietary IBM chips. > > Paxton From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Apr 21 08:45:16 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <3AE1010E.405DCC96@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <200104211345.f3LDjGW00639@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 21 Apr, Gunther Schadow wrote: > There is > one yellow/green protective ground wire, even laveled GND. Then > there is a blue (Bl) wire, two black (Bk) wires and one brown (Br) > wire. I probably don't understand this color coding and I was also > surprized to find four not three wires besides protective ground. [this may apply only to Germany] Yellow/green is protective ground, as you sad. Blue is the Null wire. Brown and the two black wires are the three phases. The three phases are generated in a "rotating" system with a phase offset of 120 degrees to each other. Null is the one common wire to all phases. You can think of it like a star: L1 | | C C C | | *---------------- N / \ / \ C C C C C C / \ L3 L2 CCC are the three coils in the generator with the 120 degrees offset (mechanicaly). This results in three AC voltages with a phase offset of 120 degrees (electricaly) . All three voltages have a common point, Null. So you have voltages form L1 to L2 (L2 to L3 / L3 to L1) and from N to L1 (N to L2 / N to L3). The voltage N to L1 is (in Germany) 230V and the Voltage L1 to L2 is 400V. This is a factor of sqrt( 3). This factor is related to the 120 degrees offset. This voltages are RMS (Root Mean Squere, also called "effective value"). This RMS is calculated using an integral... It means that a AC voltage of 230V produces the same heat in a resistor as a 230V DC voltage. The peak voltage of 230V AC is 230V * sqrt( 2) = 325V. This is the voltage you get out of a rectifier. In the USA, it seems that there is a common wiring like this: P1 | | C C C | *------ N | C C C | | P2 This gives a offset of 180 degrees and therefore is the voltage of P1 to P2 twice the voltage of P1 to N (P2 to N) Protective ground is identical to N. It is only an extra wire to the N point. This is needed for protection only. (Therefore it is called protective ground. ;-) ) I hope this gives some light into your darkness. ;-) > > I then hooked this up as follows: > > > P1 ------------* Bl > > * Bk > GND ----------------* GND > * Bk > > P2 ------------*Br > > > that is I connected the protective ground with my protective ground > wire, and P1 to where the blue line used to be and P2 where the Brown > line connected. I left the ex-black connectors open. > > Closed the cover and plugged it in. This cover has three control > lights labeled PL1, PL2, and PL3. I noticed that only PL1 was lit. [...] > 3 > +------+ > / || \ > | | > | || || | > +----------+ > 1 2 > > I think what one would expect is that 3 is protective GND, and > 1 is Null (N) and 2 is 110 V phase (P) (or 1 P and 2 N, doesn't > matter.) However, that was not what I found. I found that two > of the receptacles has 110 V between 2 and 3 (but not 1 and 2), > and the third receptacle had 110 V between each 1 and 3 and 2 > and 3 and 220 V between 1 and 2. Yes. Because you only have connected N (from the VAX point of view) and one phase. If my assumtions about US power distributions is correct, you have to connet P1 not to blue, connect it to one of the black connectors and connect N to the blue one. Then everything will work, or (perhaps) it will be toasted. ;-) BTW: It seems that the three standard computer receptacles are split around the three phases. So I recommend not to use them. Using them can result in undefined input voltages of the third rectifier input. Or disconnect the third input from inside the rectifier. Hmmm? Or connect the two black to P1, brown to P2, blue to N and ye/gr to PG/GND. This should give a defined potential to every rectifier input and the receptacles can be used. -- tschuess, Jochen, dreaming of having a VAX like you. Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Apr 21 12:23:14 2001 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Boot tape? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20001015013531.0096dba0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010421102314.009c0c00@192.168.42.129> Gene, did you ever get your boot tape (TK50?) for NetBSD 1.4/VAX? I feel kind of bad about it, as it appears that writing one for you slipped through the cracks. Let me know. Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Apr 21 12:22:27 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <200104211345.f3LDjGW00639@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > Protective ground is identical to N. It is only an extra wire to the N > point. This is needed for protection only. (Therefore it is called > protective ground. ;-) ) Some clarification is in order... Protective ground is NOT identical to N, even if they are wired together at the main breaker panel (as in USA). Neutral is a current carrying conductor, and because of the resistance in the wire, it may be at some voltage above ground potential. This is why you NEVER attach the neutral to the protective ground. Remember: if there is any possibility of current flow, use the Neutral wire. Remember: Always connect the protective ground to the chassis of the machine. These voltage are high enough you can destroy valuable antique hardware, which would be bad. You might get shocked too... clint From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sat Apr 21 12:44:36 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > On Sat, 21 Apr 2001 jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > > > Protective ground is identical to N. It is only an extra wire to the N > > point. This is needed for protection only. (Therefore it is called > > protective ground. ;-) ) > > Some clarification is in order... > > Protective ground is NOT identical to N, even if they are wired together > at the main breaker panel (as in USA). Neutral is a current carrying > conductor, and because of the resistance in the wire, it may be at some > voltage above ground potential. This is why you NEVER attach the > neutral to the protective ground. What he said! > > Remember: if there is any possibility of current flow, use the Neutral > wire. The only purpose of the green (ground) wire is to help the overcurrent device operate-- it is there to make what might be a small leakage to an electrically isolated chassis into a large fault to ground. > > Remember: Always connect the protective ground to the chassis of the > machine. Do this, and also connect the other end... (Also, in the US, the old three-prong dryer & range cords are illegal now. Be sure and use a proper cordset, that provides an equipment ground) > > These voltage are high enough you can destroy valuable antique hardware, > which would be bad. You might get shocked too... in that order... > > clint Bob From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 21 12:55:40 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: fairly OT, but y'all may be able to help me :) Message-ID: <000e01c0ca8e$0c3dfe10$f5759a8d@ajp166> From: Geoff Reed >I need to test a device that uses sensors that send back a signal using a >0-20MA current. anyone know of a source of a schematic to make something to >generate such in 1 ma increnemts? or have any tips??? Are you sure that those are not 4-20ma sensors? if so that is an industrial standard for remote analog sensors and there are devices that will translate the 4-20ma to a digital (even scaled if needed) signal either parallel or serial interfaced. Allison From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Apr 21 13:11:13 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? References: <31.13b37750.28127311@aol.com> Message-ID: <009d01c0ca8e$745b9660$709bb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > In a message dated 4/20/01 8:43:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > fernande@internet1.net writes: > > > What is it? I doubt they'll ever sell it, as they have it at $59!! > > Far to high a price. It is an IBM Selectric electromechanical typewriter > attached to magnetic card read/writer for storage. Proprietary IBM chips. > > Paxton A few years ago I found some cards for this, scanned and posted them, and then asked the list what they were. They were identified as being for the Magcard. The scans are still up at http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/_uimages/IBMCards.jp g if anyone's interested. They are the same profile as 80 column punch cards, but made of magnetic media. -W. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 21 13:13:38 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: BCD accuracy (was: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement) Message-ID: <002b01c0ca90$25bc9070$f5759a8d@ajp166> From: Jim Battle >clarifies the matter at hand. I claim that a floating point representation >specifies precision and has nothing to say about accuracy (other than >accuracy is limited by precision). Floating point binary is infamous for it's errors in that regard. >To clarify, say a number is 175.136985. This represents my weight very >precisely, but whether it is accurate or not is a different matter. Ah but if you convert it to a 24bit floating point (more bits would help but limiting it makes the error glaring) you may not be able to express it accurately enough. The BCD case induces more truncation limiting precision. >Again, I must be missing something, or perhaps it is a definitional >thing. I've given my definition for precision (or what you call >resolution) and accuracy. I claim accuracy is largely outside the scope of >a number representation. Perhaps you and others have a different >definition than I do and are also internally consistent. I'd like to hear >it, since I keep running into it and don't understand it. Accuracy express 1/3 binary and decimals for the same total bits. Limit the case to something shorter than the usual 32 or 64 bits say like 10 or 12 bits and you see the error. This is the gray zone where resolution, accuracy and range can collide. Of course with 128 bits of either case it's really meaningless then. Back in the olden days (8080/z80/6502) when math was often limited in the number of bits to something less than 32 bits this was more accutely noticed by the users. The infamous MSbasic 3.99999=4 and other examples come to mind. This led to things like NS* basic and HP using BCD to avoid the SQRT(16)=3.99999! >If, on the other hand, you want to know what is sin(0.1), I claim the >binary representation is more precise (and thus allows more accuracy; >accuracy here depends on the implementation of the trig algorithms and not >inherently in the number system). But the number of bits do make a difference. >maybe I should give up and take this to the alt.ieee.vs.bcd.floating-point >newsgroup. :-) Logically your correct but in the realm of older machines this was a real issue. Allison From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sat Apr 21 13:48:20 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: FS: IBM 6157 external tape drive and heaps of tapes - System/36?? Message-ID: I have just come across an external tape drive that appears to be in good shape with a huge box of DC-300 tapes, 60 of them. All appear to be used, all but a few are in plastic cases. It all looks to be in good shape and the tapes came in a box marked "System 36 tapes" and to the best of my recollection that's what the tape drive goes to. Any offers? The drive is light but the tapes probably weigh 40 lbs. I'd ship it by UPS gorund so it's cheaper. At present I'd prefer to stay with shipping in the US. Drop me a note direct to rhblake@bigfoot.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 21 14:10:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment In-Reply-To: <698.511T700T1814573optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 21, 1 03:01:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1299 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010421/06c09f79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 21 14:12:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: DEC (Minc 11?) RX01 disks and PUTR In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Apr 20, 1 07:15:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010421/0504763c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 21 14:18:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: from "Robert F Schaefer" at Apr 21, 1 07:27:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1948 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010421/7fead305/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 21 15:37:02 2001 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? Message-ID: Hell, I'd pay them twice that for it... I've wanted one of those for a loooong time... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Apr 21 14:04:49 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104211904.f3LJ4nc00990@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 21 Apr, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > Protective ground is NOT identical to N, even if they are wired together > at the main breaker panel (as in USA). [...] I know, it is the same in Germany. The statement "Protective ground is identical to N." was only a simplification to illustrate why you messure the same voltage from a phase to N and from a phase to protective ground. I wanted to describe how three phase power works, not how failure protection works and what different kinds of power network types (TN-C, TN-S, TN-CS, TT, IT or how they are called in the USA) are possible. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Apr 21 17:03:21 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Xerox ViewPoint Font pack Message-ID: <20010421.170323.-4059991.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I have a box of about 12 8" floppies, which appear to be screen fonts for ViewPoint 2.0. Anybody need these? Make me an offer . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Apr 21 17:05:51 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: DEC PRO-300 P/OS Floppies Message-ID: <20010421.170552.-4059991.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Version 1.7. Looks like a complete set. Anybody want these? They are original. Reply via private e-mail. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sat Apr 21 17:08:58 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: SOmebody needed an SMD cable? Message-ID: <20010421.170900.-4059991.2.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> I have a couple of the 60-wire control (twisted pair) cable about three feet long. If you need the data cable, LMK, and I'll try to get one for you. I can also get *REALLY* long 60-wire cables, also. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 21 16:31:58 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: DEC NICSA console Message-ID: <01042117344300.01834@fatty> Has anyone ever heard of a DEC NICSA console board? It was part of a backplane with two protocol translation boards, a 1 meg MS-11, 11/24 CPU, and a DEUNA. Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From fernande at internet1.net Sat Apr 21 18:04:46 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive Message-ID: <3AE2120E.B4690FB@internet1.net> Hello, Before I continue with my Vax 3400, I want to get my PDP11 put together, physically. I have a few things I would like to find, and a few questions. My 11 came with a 3 4-port serial cards. They are M8043 boards. I can't see myself using that many serial ports. Does anybody have the little blank steel plates to put in a BA23 chassis so I can remove the plates that have the 4 db25 connectors? Also, I need the plate that fits into the space below the serial ports. It looks to be slightly larger than a centronics 50 SCSI connector. Would anybody have the dip switch and jumper settings for a M8190-AE, that's a KDJ11-B from a 73 or 83. My 11 was upgraded from a 53. How about memory? If I use the memory that came with it, and do a "map" it tells me the memory is parity. I bought a few surplus boards and one appears to be ECC memory. I don't know anything about ECC, is it better than parity? I have a 2-meg ECC board and 2.5 megs worth of parity memory between 2 boards. One of my parity boards says "Mos RAM" What is that? It is a M8067 LJ. I am thinking that I would like to keep the chassis out of the tower. Does anybody have a spare plastic bezel for a rackmount setup. I don't have a rack, but it would take up less room if I keep the tower in storage. What to call this thing? It has the cpu board from an 11/83, but it doesn't have the PMI memory of an 83. I would like to upgrade the little square badge to reflect its current config. Also, does anybody want a big Cipher tape drive? I also have a Emulex TCO2 (I think that's it) to drive it, although I don't have the cables to hook the two together. It would be free for the taking. I don't think I want to ship it. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Sat Apr 21 18:08:41 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? References: Message-ID: <3AE212F9.376A2C9@internet1.net> So that means you probably live in CA, TX, or PA right? That's what happens to me, all the time. Something I want, at a good price, but way to far away! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Will Jennings wrote: > > Hell, I'd pay them twice that for it... I've wanted one of those for a > loooong time... > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Apr 21 18:18:16 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: First Color Portable Computer? References: Message-ID: <012301c0cab9$5899aa40$709bb2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> I know that a lot of you dislike "which was first" discussions, but this one has been bothering me for a while so here goes. At VCF 4.0, there was a nice Commodore display with a timeline that had an entry under "1983" stating that the Commodore SX-64 was released as the world's "first color portable computer." If you search the net, you'll find a number of sites that make the same claim, although you'll find just as many sites that say it was first sold in 1984. It is clear that some version of the SX-64 was "announced" as early as January 1983 as either the Executive 64, the SX-100 and later the SX-64. In fact, it seems that more than one such announcement may have occurred during 1983. "Announced," however, does not mean sold. It is also clear that the SX-64 was "introduced" in January 1984 at the Winter Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. There were a number of articles documenting this. One can be read at http://www.devili.iki.fi/Computers/Commodore/articles/T he_Winter_CES_1984/. This article seems to suggest that the SX-64 had been announced under various names during 1983, but perhaps never sold. As it turns out, the 1983 vs. 1984 date makes a difference. On November 22, 1983, TI made a news release announcing the Texas Instruments Portable Professional Computer (TIPPC), which came with a 16 color screen. PC Week ran the story in its November 29, 1983 issue noting that: "The TI Portable Professional Computer weighs in at 32 pounds, shares the IBM's 8088 processor and runs the latest version of MS-DOS (2.1). The basic model, which will sell in 700 retail stores for $2,395, includes 64K of memory, a built-in nine-inch color or monochrome display, and one half-height 5-1/4-inch floppy-disk drive." Recognizing again that "announced" does not mean "sold" I did some research and found an article in the February 7, 1984 issue of PC Magazine stating that the TIPPC had been "on sale since December [1983]." So, which was first, if "first" is defined (as I believe it necessarily must be) as being available for purchase by the general public? Does anyone have any information indicating that the SX-64 was actually sold in 1983? -W From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 21 19:17:43 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: RFO: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement References: <6b.13072a2d.2810b3b3@aol.com><20010420143722.G4373@mastif> <15072.37303.114437.475869@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c0cac1$a712cd20$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > so I don't need anything fancy just bullet proof and reliable. Friend of mine at the IBM Watson Lab used to use a P.C. running... get this, MS Dos, for RealTime work. Seemed like a neat idea due to the low overhead involved. John A. P.S. I like 85's but be aware of their speed. From ewy at southwind.net Sat Apr 21 20:04:59 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3AE22E3A.FA4CBA67@southwind.net> Mark Gregory wrote: > Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of > Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years > of meetings (!)... > Cheers, > Mark G. This brings to mind the fact that (at least the first of) the Amiga patents should be expiring within the next two or three years. This should mean something to Amiga hobbyists, shouldn't it? I've seen people implementing 6502 cores in FPGAs these days. Surely the Amiga custom chips would be good candidates for similar treatment when Gateway no longer has the right to sue somebody to make them quit. (Gateway still owns the patents even though they no longer own the Amiga trademark. What they plan to do with them in the next couple years -- aside from keeping others from making good use of them -- is beyond me.) -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy_whyspam?_@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Apr 21 20:00:52 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: (Fwd) Mother lode of donations in NJ Message-ID: <3AE1F504.4519.488BF8@localhost> This was on the Mac Evangelist. Anyone qualifies, respond to original post, not me. larry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: [FYI] Macs to Donate From: "Steve Chambers" Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 03:09:06 +1000 Folks, A while back I had posted a message here about some Macs that my company (Sarnoff Corp.) can donate to any registered non-profit organization. The person who was responsible for arranging for the physical transfer never followed up with the contacts I provided him. That person isn't with the company any more and I can now proceed with this donation. So if there are interested parties out there: 1. you MUST be in the local area (Princeton NJ) because you are picking this stuff up yourself 2. you MUST be a registered non-profit organization and be able to provide proof of that to me 3. You need to arrange pickup of the equipment ASAP. Preference will be given to people who can pick up the equipment the week of April 23-27. You will need a 12-foot u-haul (or equiv, perhaps larger) for all the equipment we have. We will bring it to our loading dock but it is up to you to get it in the truck. Below is a partial list of equipment to donate: a number of working and non working 6100/7100/8100/7500/8500 Macs. A few older ones as well. A number of PowerBooks in the 100 series. Several monitors of the 17" and 21" variety, all working as well as a couple of smaller ones. Note that there are not as many monitors as Macs by half. 3-4 Laserwriter-II printers all (presumably) in working order. A boatload of cables, keyboards, mice, transceivers, phonenet connectors, batteries, PowerBook ac adapters and the like to go with the aforementioned computers. *PLUS* A _Large_ inventory of Apple Service Parts to repair printers, desktop Macs and PowerBooks. All working Macs have an OS on them but nothing else. The OS is the one that was on it when it was last used and all that was done was our software and settings were removed, so the OS on these Macs is probably not complete, but is sufficient to boot the Mac. There is a *LOT* of stuff here folks. There also is the possibility that some more CPUs and monitors will come available at a later date. Please respond via email only (no calls please) with some info on your organization and how soon you can take this off our hands. On a personal note, I recently experienced a hard drive crash and have lost the email addresses of the people who have responded to the previous requests. So if you have contacted me before about this do so again as I don't have the contact info any more! cheers! Steve -- Steve Chambers, Systems Analyst Apple Certified Macintosh Technician Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) Microsoft Certified Professional + Internet (MCP+I) Sarnoff Corporation Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 21 20:09:05 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:34 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <1183.511T1500T3445265optimus@canit.se> References: <1183.511T1500T3445265optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Mark Gregory skrev: > >>Last night, I attended the 175th monthly meeting of the Amiga Users of >>Calgary. That didn't seem like much until I did the math; that's 14.5 years >>of meetings (!), and probably more given that for the past few years >>they've taken two of the summer months off. It got me wondering which users >>group holds the record for longest continuous operation, where members >>actually attend meetings at a regular interval. I know that the Toronto PET >>Users Group, which is still active, has been running since 1978. >>Interestingly, their Website (http://www.icomm.ca/tpug/) says they're the >>_second_ oldest Commodore club. > >>I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older >>clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic >>and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > >S.U.G.A. has been active since 1986 and is now Sweden's oldest Amiga user >group (before AUGS folded, one was never certain), and we're still having >meetings every week. The National Capital Amiga User's Group was incorporated as a not-for-profit organization in 1985 and still holds meetings at George Washington University in Washington D.C. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 21 19:52:36 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) In-Reply-To: <3AE22E3A.FA4CBA67@southwind.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Joel Ewy wrote: > This brings to mind the fact that (at least the first of) the > Amiga patents should be expiring within the next two or three years. > This should mean something to Amiga hobbyists, shouldn't it? I've > seen people implementing 6502 cores in FPGAs these days. Surely the > Amiga custom chips would be good candidates for similar treatment when > Gateway no longer has the right to sue somebody to make them quit. > (Gateway still owns the patents even though they no longer own the > Amiga trademark. What they plan to do with them in the next couple > years -- aside from keeping others from making good use of them -- is > beyond me.) Aren't the designs, which are what really matter here, still copyrighted? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From terryf at intersurf.com Sat Apr 21 22:07:30 2001 From: terryf at intersurf.com (terryf@intersurf.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s In-Reply-To: References: <200104210440.VAA00704@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.1.20010421220451.009513a0@mail.intersurf.com> At 08:31 AM 4/21/01 -0500, you wrote: > >I have an IBM manual for 9404 and 9402 systems which states the operator >control panel has a "movement sensor" which detects gross changes in >position and causes the OS to prompt for the system password as an effort >to prevent unauthorized transfer. > Having hauled a couple around in a pickup ( over 100 miles ) and getting one shipped from the west coast to louisianna via freight truck, I haven't experienced any problems. Terry From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Apr 21 22:14:12 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Sun monitors for FREE!!!! (shipping and handling extra) Message-ID: I've got five Sun 16" color monitors (GDM-1604): 2 - 13W3 connector, look to work good 1 - 13W3 connector, seems to have a bad solder connection (thumping it makes the color change) 1 - 13W3 connector, no display 1 - 4 BNC, looks to work good 1 - 4 BNC to 4 BNC cable (not free, make offer) More specs: RGB fixed frequency with composite sync. I was able to get XFree86 to display on them by tweaking the numbers to get a stable display (no vsync). I bought them to get the DEC VR297 monitor off the pallet, and they will end up in a landfill if no one wants them... Location Denver, CO (80020). No offer refused. I'll take one in to work for weighing if someone asks. clint From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Apr 21 23:56:09 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) References: Message-ID: <3AE26469.CBFCDFF@aurora.regenstrief.org> Robert, you are awesome! I would very much appreciate if you took some pictures. I did some more experiment today and had quite strange results. Now that I understand that the two black and the brown wires are the three phases and the blue is null, I hooked up brown with P1, the two black ones with P2 and blue with null. When I plugged in, I saw the power line controll lights 2 and 3 flash up real quick and then they were out. When I turned on the main power (T-switch) I could measure 110 V at the auxiliary receptacles as it should be. However, I could not find any 220 V at the round plug. I tried two variants: with leaving protective ground open or closing it at N (I know, this was only temporary ...) When I had protective GND on N I would see the PL1 controll light flash tooo. But I never got any 220 V between any of the pins on the round connector. Now this may be because I tried with the power unit from the VAX that has some (unknown) power problems. > The cable that connects the round > connector to the `power & logic box' has only six wires, two from each > phase. There are a number of other connections available on the round > connector, which leads me to believe it's a standard part for anumber of > different power schemes. >From the inside it looks as if each lead goes to at least two of those pins. This would seem reasonable as the pins themselves look pretty small for 800 W full power ... > Here's the fun part! Inside the `power & logic box', all three phases ( > no neutral!) follow a simple path thru a 20A 600V fuse, and then into a > full-wave bridge rectifier, DEC part number 11-26520-01. A couple of MOVs > offer some protection from transients, and yet more filtering. > > Now, the good news: > > It should be possible to simply apply 220 volt single phase (common dryer > power) to any two of the hot wires on the three phase plug! No neutral is > needed for the computer itself, altho any accessories plugged into the > lower power-distribution box will need one. These pose a small problem in > that they are connected to different hots to more evenly balance the load > on the three phase supply, but worst case they can be easily tied on to > one phase inside the box-- best case don't use them! > > I'll be making a cable to replace the factory assembly, and rewireing the > distribution box to single phase, I believe. It should be 100% reversable. My plan is to buy a receptacle box for the original power plug and wire that box near my extra circuit-breaker box in the laundry / computer room in the basement. Given that the stange behavior of the power control lights are explained and my mistake in measuring the round connector's voltage output is discovered, is there anything to rewire inside the AC power box? I wonder, are we the first ones to fire up their 6000 in their private dwellings? BTW: has anyone noticed major interference with radios or TVs (the label on the machine talks about it ...) regards -Gunther From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Apr 22 03:27:51 2001 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: FS: PDP-8/i, again Message-ID: The high bidder of the PDP-8/i I had for sale has backed out. His bid was $1200, for what its worth. Anyway, a fair number of you interested people put bids in for $500. Anyone want to put another bid in? William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 05:39:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1166.512T1800T6995497optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On 21 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> I often walk by a company dealing with artificial intelligence, who >> have the good taste of decorating their offices with Rietveld chairs >> and vintage computer equipment. Today, I happened to notice a very >> sexy Xerox machine. It was a black, rather fat tower with a very black >> front with relief stripes. On top of it sat an equally black >> diskdrive, its front as black the computer. I think it would fold down >> to reveal the actual slot. The back featured a number of very large >> blanking plates for graphics (I think a D15) and AUI. What kind of >> system was it, when was it released, what OS did it run? Can I marry >> it? >Are you sure it was black or just a very dark brown? Dimensions would >help. It seemed very black to me through the window. Judging from memory, I'd guess it would measure around 50-60 cm high, 20-25 cm wide and 30 cm deep. The typography made me think it would date from the mid to late eighties. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Iggy tipsar: Koppla aldrig en C128-transformator till en A500. ?ven om kontakterna ser likadana ut, ligger sp?nningarna fel. From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 05:33:07 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <200104210132.SAA31207@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <1126.512T350T6933887optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> And more likely $25, unless they come with monitors. =) >> However, why are they only suited for NetBSD? Granted, that's what mine >> runs, but why not OpenBSD, Linux or even Ultrix? >I guess OpenBSD does have a PMAX report, didn't realize that. Is there a >Linux port? Even if there is I'm guessing NetBSD still offers the best >support. I haven't tried DECstation Linux myself, but they've got a URL at http://decstation.unix-ag.org/. >As for Ultrix, good luck getting a Y2k compatible version (yes, it is >possible), and what about licenses. Oops, and I was thinking of putting those old Ultrix tapes to good use on a 3100. Are the y2k errors particularly serious? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. There is also a high quality Fortran from DEC for our engineers, and of course the whole C and LISP programming environments for CS students and other software developers, plus a set of powerful text manipulation utilities like sed, grep, awk, lex, and yacc, whose functions should be obvious from their names. Frank da Cruz & Christine Gianone - "THE DECSYSTEM-20 AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY (1977-1988)" From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 06:10:11 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet Message-ID: <425.512T550T7304355optimus@canit.se> As we all know, Ethernet was only running at 3 Mbit in the early days. When was the move to 10 Mbit done and is 10Mb Ethernet backwards compatible? Also, were there any Ethernet controllers back in the old days, or what kind of interfacing did old Ethernet capable equipment such as the SUN 1 or DECNA use? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Was ist ein Erwachsener? Ein Kind, das vom Alter aufgepumpt ist. --- Simone de Beauvoir From daverogers90 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 24 11:15:17 2001 From: daverogers90 at hotmail.com (dave rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 mains adapter Message-ID: Hi My name is Dave from NewZealand would u please have a copy of the start up disc for the ppc640 i do have a powerpac and will scan the lable that should tell you what the workings are but if u would like me to pull it apart and scan the inside i will. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/d6fa3d69/attachment.html From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Apr 22 05:54:52 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <3AE26469.CBFCDFF@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Robert, you are awesome! I would very much appreciate if you took > some pictures. I did some more experiment today and had quite strange thanks... ;) I'll grab the camera again today. The reason why you didn't find any power at the output is that the PS is switched by a controller (the `Power & Logic Box' I believe) external to it. There is a contactor (relay) inside, it its the last black box the three-phase power wires go thru before they come to the round connector. (or first after the connector, depending on which way you go... :) This may be manually operated by pushing down on the armature. WITH THE POWER OFF, look at it. Either on the top, or the upper side, there will be a piece of plastic that can be pushsed down towards the bottom of the contactor. You should be able to measure continuity directly across from one color to the same color with this pushed in, and open with it released. It may not be possible to get all four contacts to close by pushing on it on the side, so measure across all phases & the netural. You could also do this with the PS energised, and look for voltage on the output, but this way is much safer... (if I did it hot, I'd test at the end of the cable that connects it to the `power & logic box'-- easier to find the right connection!) > > > The cable that connects the round > > connector to the `power & logic box' has only six wires, two from each > > phase. There are a number of other connections available on the round > > connector, which leads me to believe it's a standard part for anumber of > > different power schemes. > > >From the inside it looks as if each lead goes to at least two of those > pins. This would seem reasonable as the pins themselves look pretty > small for 800 W full power ... Yup. Parallel runs for more current capacity. > > > Here's the fun part! Inside the `power & logic box', all three phases ( > > I'll be making a cable to replace the factory assembly, and rewireing the > > distribution box to single phase, I believe. It should be 100% reversable. > > My plan is to buy a receptacle box for the original power plug and > wire that box near my extra circuit-breaker box in the laundry / > computer room in the basement. Given that the stange behavior of the > power control lights are explained and my mistake in measuring the > round connector's voltage output is discovered, is there anything to > rewire inside the AC power box? I would hazard a guess that they are trying to tell you that the controller isn't plugged in to it, and it doesn't know what to do without it, or perhps they're power OK leds for the three phase feed. IDK-- yet. > > I wonder, are we the first ones to fire up their 6000 in their private > dwellings? BTW: has anyone noticed major interference with radios or > TVs (the label on the machine talks about it ...) It'll be a week or more before I crank her over-- I have some more pressing projects I'm in the middle of. If there is a lot of interference coming out of it, the thing must be a microwave oven inside-- there's more shielding in that case than I've ever seen before. Put a cup of water in the bottom, boot it and shut down, and see how hot it is! > > regards > -Gunther Bob From daverogers90 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 24 11:27:42 2001 From: daverogers90 at hotmail.com (dave rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 mains adapter Message-ID: I could not scan the ouside but this is what it says AC ADAPTER MDLE PPC640 AC-B FOR USE WITH PPC 640S/PPC640D/PPC512S/PPC512D MAINS SUPPLY 220-240V 50HZ-35W DC OUTPUT 13V 1.9AMPS -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/5b101a44/attachment.html From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sun Apr 22 10:17:53 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <1126.512T350T6933887optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Accounting, auditing, and 'at' don't work well. Most everything else is OK. I've been running 4.2a for years with no problems outside of those areas. > Oops, and I was thinking of putting those old Ultrix tapes to good use on a > 3100. Are the y2k errors particularly serious? > -- From bdc at world.std.com Sun Apr 22 10:27:43 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <3AE26469.CBFCDFF@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > I wonder, are we the first ones to fire up their 6000 in their private > dwellings? Based on Geoff's page, I'd say he counts as one of the earliest if not the first. Still, it's not so impressive as someone firing up an 11/780 or one of the VAX 8000 series. They're true power hogs. > BTW: has anyone noticed major interference with radios or > TVs (the label on the machine talks about it ...) Well, I'm not opposed to building a Faraday cage for my VAX if necessary. :-) -brian. --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- Windows is a 16-bit operating system so it can only go up to 64k of bugs. -- K. From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 10:51:16 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Message-ID: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> Hey, I recently picked up a VIC-20 with Tape Recorder, Joystick, 5 games, etc. on EBay for 11 bucks. It was my first purchase as a classic comp collector, and I had a few questions concerning it and was wondering if any of you guys could answer: 1. Are there any mods to improve that god-awful display??? 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these things? 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? And finally, are there any schematics/tutorials on the net for creating text terminals? I wanted one to interface with a 6502 board i'm working at, but I wanted to build it myself and running some prog like HyperTerminal or whatever just didn't seem as fun. -Lanny Cox From ahm at spies.com Sun Apr 22 11:19:30 2001 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: ; from Jeff Hellige on Sat, Apr 21, 2001 at 09:09:05PM -0400 References: <1183.511T1500T3445265optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010422121930.E3209@spies.com> The Boston Computer Society might have held the title, had they not folded a few years ago. The ACGNJ was founded in March of 1975, and continues to host a dozen different SIG meetings per month at the Scotch Plains (NJ) Rescue Squad. http://www.acgnj.org These are the folks who brought us the SIG/M and PC-BLUE collections and the Trenton Computer Festival (even though it's no longer in Trenton :) http://www.tcf-nj.org/ Andy From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 22 11:24:12 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: VIC-20 (Lanny Cox) References: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <15075.1452.985180.635377@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 22, Lanny Cox wrote: > I recently picked up a VIC-20 with Tape Recorder, Joystick, 5 games, etc. > on EBay for 11 bucks. It was my first purchase as a classic comp collector, > and I had a few questions concerning it and was wondering if any of you guys > could answer: As I sit here repairing a core plane from my pdp8/e (circa 1969) I still can't consider a VIC "classic" no matter how many years go by. Time sure does fly! I remember back in my high school days...my best friend Rob had a VIC-20, later a C64, while I was the Atari 800 freak. We had LOTS of fun on those machines, and taught ourselves lots of great stuff. Those "early" home computers sure did offer a lot of bang for the buck! > And finally, are there any schematics/tutorials on the net for creating > text terminals? I wanted one to interface with a 6502 board i'm working at, > but I wanted to build it myself and running some prog like HyperTerminal or > whatever just didn't seem as fun. Hmm...perhaps Don Lancaster's "TV Typewriter Cookbook"? Definitely a nice historically-sound pursuit. Copies can be found on eBay from time to time. Fun! :-) -Dave McGuire From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Apr 22 11:31:57 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Boot tape? References: <3.0.5.32.20001015013531.0096dba0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20010421102314.009c0c00@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <020001c0cb49$bfe39c70$1ec7fec7@pcat> > Gene, did you ever get your boot tape (TK50?) for NetBSD 1.4/VAX? > > I feel kind of bad about it, as it appears that writing one for you slipped > through the cracks. > Nope, no tape yet. :) Don't feel too bad though, I've been up to my ass in my resto project on the F-15 and haven't even gotten back to the uVAX yet. Might be kind of interesting to figure out a use for the machine in the sim though. :) g. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 11:43:00 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: Far as I know there are gobs of info on the VIC and C64, 128 and 128D on the web, just consult your friendly neighborhood search engine. "Brain" is one of the people that comes to mind in the expert-on-Commodore category but in the last year or two I haven't done much with any Commode-Ore stuff - even though I've tons of items stashed in my storage trailer. I guess soon it's gonna all have to be pulled and sold/traded as appropriate. All i'm going to keep is the SX64 and C128D out of all the stuff I have. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lanny Cox > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 10:51 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: VIC-20 > > > Hey, > > I recently picked up a VIC-20 with Tape Recorder, Joystick, 5 games, etc. > on EBay for 11 bucks. It was my first purchase as a classic comp > collector, > and I had a few questions concerning it and was wondering if any > of you guys > could answer: > > 1. Are there any mods to improve that god-awful display??? > > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > things? > > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? > > And finally, are there any schematics/tutorials on the net for creating > text terminals? I wanted one to interface with a 6502 board i'm > working at, > but I wanted to build it myself and running some prog like > HyperTerminal or > whatever just didn't seem as fun. > > -Lanny Cox > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 11:45:20 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: FS: Mac LC II and LC 580 (ebay) Message-ID: I have two excess machines in good condition just posted on ebay, not sure how many Apple/mac enthusiasts are out there: Here are the links to them in the event you want to look without committing to email with me: Mac LCII (just the main unit/pizza box): http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232152984 Really good condition but yet untested other than power-up. Mac 580 all-in-one, complete: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232132300 This one has some minor plastics damage to areas that are not noticeable but otherwise it's in excellent condition From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 11:45:21 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Boot tape? In-Reply-To: <020001c0cb49$bfe39c70$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: F-15 as in the aircraft F-15 fighter? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gene Buckle > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 11:32 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Boot tape? > > > > > > Gene, did you ever get your boot tape (TK50?) for NetBSD 1.4/VAX? > > > > I feel kind of bad about it, as it appears that writing one for you > slipped > > through the cracks. > > > > Nope, no tape yet. :) Don't feel too bad though, I've been up to > my ass in > my resto project on the F-15 and haven't even gotten back to the uVAX yet. > Might be kind of interesting to figure out a use for the machine > in the sim > though. :) > > g. > > From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Sun Apr 22 11:42:15 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller Message-ID: <3AE309E7.6830E6F6@bresnanlink.net> I have a few PCjrs running around, and I've often thought of either adding 3.5" drives to them, or replacing the standard 5.25" drive with 3.5" drives. The controller only supports double density data rates (250?), so I'm limited to 720KB 3.5" drives. These are getting hard to find. I connected a new 1.44MB drive to the controller, and behold, it worked! (With double density media of course.) The machine booted from the diskette (which was created from a 360kb image prepared on a Linux machine), and it also ran diagnostics. So now I'm confused - why did it work? Does the modern 1.44MB drive sense that the controller is only sending data at 250KHz rate? If so, how is it doing the sensing? (The reduced write-current pin (2) isn't being used - I verified that with a meter.) Thanks, Mike From azog at azog.org Sun Apr 22 11:52:24 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VIC-20 References: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <002c01c0cb4c$9e02a3a0$0a00a8c0@azog> > > I recently picked up a VIC-20 with Tape Recorder, Joystick, 5 games, etc. > on EBay for 11 bucks. It was my first purchase as a classic comp collector, > and I had a few questions concerning it and was wondering if any of you guys > could answer: Whee, a VIC-20 was the first computer I actually owned. I spent my larval stages on the 8-bit line starting from the VIC-20. OT, but I am really interested in getting a 128D (specifically the D model), but they sell for upwards $100 sometimes on ebay. > > 1. Are there any mods to improve that god-awful display??? I wouldn't consider it God-awful :P But from the shattered remains of my memory, I seem to recall that there may have been 40 column cards for it. There was also some software which replaced the character maps with something that resembled 40 columns but it ran at the same resolution, so it was beyond difficult to read... > > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > things? Do some net searches. You probably won't find any company that still sells them, but you may be able to find a DIY expansion... > > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? > $11 ain't bad. "was it worth it" is objective - did you feel you it was worth it? Some people will apperently pay $5k for a true IBM 5150 PC, but I wouldn't want it unless you delivered it to me, and only then if you had a pizza in the other hand :) From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Apr 22 12:07:29 2001 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Boot tape? References: Message-ID: <039f01c0cb4e$b67da8b0$1ec7fec7@pcat> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: RE: Boot tape? > F-15 as in the aircraft F-15 fighter? > Yes. F-15C to be exact. Not the whole thing mind you, but enough for my nefarious purposes. :) Pics & info here: http://www-f15sim.com g. From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 22 12:33:10 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Apr 21, 2001 05:52:36 pm" Message-ID: <200104221733.KAA07076@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > This brings to mind the fact that (at least the first of) the > > Amiga patents should be expiring within the next two or three years. > > This should mean something to Amiga hobbyists, shouldn't it? I've > > seen people implementing 6502 cores in FPGAs these days. Surely the > > Amiga custom chips would be good candidates for similar treatment when > > Gateway no longer has the right to sue somebody to make them quit. > > (Gateway still owns the patents even though they no longer own the > > Amiga trademark. What they plan to do with them in the next couple > > years -- aside from keeping others from making good use of them -- is > > beyond me.) > > Aren't the designs, which are what really matter here, still copyrighted? Copyright doesn't preclude other designs which perform equivalent tasks. A reverse engineered version of a custom chip is perfectly legal under copyright law despite recent attempts by congress to make it illegal. Under patent law it would not be, if the chip is similar enough to fall under the specifics of the patent (as would surely be the case in this instance.) Eric From louiss at gate.net Sun Apr 22 12:52:44 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller In-Reply-To: <3AE309E7.6830E6F6@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <200104221752.NAA215354@flathead.gate.net> It's simpler than that. The drive recognizes the media as HD or DD by the hole (or lack of hole). So the drive uses DD, which is acceptable to the controller, when you use DD media. If you put in HD media, and taped over the hole, it would work as well. Louis On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 11:42:15 -0500, Michael Brutman wrote: #I have a few PCjrs running around, and I've often thought of #either adding 3.5" drives to them, or replacing the standard #5.25" drive with 3.5" drives. The controller only supports #double density data rates (250?), so I'm limited to 720KB #3.5" drives. These are getting hard to find. # #I connected a new 1.44MB drive to the controller, and #behold, it worked! (With double density media of course.) #The machine booted from the diskette (which was created from #a 360kb image prepared on a Linux machine), and it also ran #diagnostics. So now I'm confused - why did it work? # #Does the modern 1.44MB drive sense that the controller is #only sending data at 250KHz rate? If so, how is it doing #the sensing? (The reduced write-current pin (2) isn't #being used - I verified that with a meter.) # #Thanks, #Mike # From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 22 13:02:01 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Cute Vax 5500, in SoCal In-Reply-To: References: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422110104.02226d70@208.226.86.10> That would be the DECSystem 5500, a MIPS based PMAX (not a VAX). I've got a dead BA400 chassis for one :-) --Chuck At 06:43 PM 4/19/01 -0700, you wrote: >I saw a cute little vax today at a scrap yard, apparently still intact, it >was a 5500 in a BA400 chassis. I don't think I can bring it home, but >should I be tempted? Anybody else in SoCal looking for one? > >I did snag a fairly burnt in VT520, unfortunately minus any cables, and >left about 5 more behind. From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 09:06:11 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller In-Reply-To: <3AE309E7.6830E6F6@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <20010422180429.OQVS7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 11:42:15 -0500 > From: Michael Brutman > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I have a few PCjrs running around, and I've often thought of > either adding 3.5" drives to them, or replacing the standard > 5.25" drive with 3.5" drives. The controller only supports > double density data rates (250?), so I'm limited to 720KB > 3.5" drives. These are getting hard to find. Correct, only source of this 720K drives are from scrapped machines. That 720K drives must be very few in number compared to 360K and 1.22M drives. > a 360kb image prepared on a Linux machine), and it also ran > diagnostics. So now I'm confused - why did it work? You have answer. :-) I did this too before on XT and odd balls for that reason. Also Dos 3.3 supports 720K natively. Both 720K and 1.44MB are same layout only in 80 tracks only differences are in type of media and number of sectors per track. 9 for 720K and 18 sectors for 1.44MB. Spun at same 300rpm, therefore same data rate on 720K due to 9 sectors and also same thing for 360K except it is 40 tracks. For single sided 180K that's same story, 9 sectors. > > Does the modern 1.44MB drive sense that the controller is > only sending data at 250KHz rate? If so, how is it doing > the sensing? (The reduced write-current pin (2) isn't > being used - I verified that with a meter.) That is input not output, controlled by the controller side also the drive itself automatically change write current also when it sense on type of floppy itself via that hole. I think. Cheers, Wizard From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 22 13:14:55 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: <001e01c0c7c4$a7cfba20$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422111304.02b6e960@208.226.86.10> The ones I don't get are the folks who seem to be otherwise legitimate folks (leave their name and actual phone number with Ebay) and then after the auction is over refuse to send the merchandise. What's up with that? There was one guy I talked to (didn't buy from thankfully!) who was selling stuff he was taking home from the office since "no one at work seemed to miss it." --Chuck At 01:01 AM 4/18/01 -0400, you wrote: >Sheeesh...not surprised....at all.... > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010417/wr/crime_ebay_dc_1.html > >I will continue to boycott this place as both a potential seller and buyer. > >Claude >Canuk Computer Collector >http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 22 13:18:29 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Converting MVII to PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200104180459.f3I4x3J08957@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422111532.0365c0c0@208.226.86.10> You need to replace the plastic button on the front to say "MicroPDP" :-) Depends on what you run on it of course. The RQDX is MSCP and the TK50 is TMSCP. That means RSX-11M 4.2 or above and RT-11 5.4 or above. I moved an 11/23 into a BA23 and it worked fine. Although now its back in the BA11 and I've got a Q-bus extender connecting it to the BA23. --Chuck At 11:59 PM 4/17/01 -0500, you wrote: >I have a MicroVAX II in a BA23 cabinet. I'd like >to convert this to a PDP-11. I know I'll need to >replace the CPU and memory and remove the GPX boards, >but what else do I need to replace? The disk is an >RD54 on a RQDX3 controller and the tape is a TK50 >on a TQK50. I've also got a DELQA Ethernet board. >-- >Eric Dittman >dittman@dittman.net From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 22 13:19:16 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) In-Reply-To: <200104221733.KAA07076@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Apr 22, 2001 10:33:10 am" Message-ID: <200104221819.LAA08104@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > This brings to mind the fact that (at least the first of) the > > > Amiga patents should be expiring within the next two or three years. > > > This should mean something to Amiga hobbyists, shouldn't it? I've > > > seen people implementing 6502 cores in FPGAs these days. Surely the > > > Amiga custom chips would be good candidates for similar treatment when > > > Gateway no longer has the right to sue somebody to make them quit. > > > (Gateway still owns the patents even though they no longer own the > > > Amiga trademark. What they plan to do with them in the next couple > > > years -- aside from keeping others from making good use of them -- is > > > beyond me.) > > > > Aren't the designs, which are what really matter here, still copyrighted? > > Copyright doesn't preclude other designs which perform equivalent tasks. > A reverse engineered version of a custom chip is perfectly legal under > copyright law despite recent attempts by congress to make it illegal. I know its bad form to reply to your own posts, but given that this is an international forum, I should point out that I am fairly sure reverse engineering is also protected in most of Europe and Asia. So far as I know, the US is the only country that has been in the business of trying to limit it. Eric From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 13:20:46 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <002c01c0cb4c$9e02a3a0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: You'll hate me for saying this but I got my 128D, printer, monitor, etc and a ton of software in swap for a Sound Blaster 16 card. I like it way more than the old 64's...and the thremal color printer is nice other than tracking down sources for ribbons. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Billy D'Augustine > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 11:52 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VIC-20 > > > > > > I recently picked up a VIC-20 with Tape Recorder, Joystick, 5 > games, etc. > > on EBay for 11 bucks. It was my first purchase as a classic comp > collector, > > and I had a few questions concerning it and was wondering if any of you > guys > > could answer: > > Whee, a VIC-20 was the first computer I actually owned. I spent my larval > stages on the 8-bit line starting from the VIC-20. OT, but I am really > interested in getting a 128D (specifically the D model), but they sell for > upwards $100 sometimes on ebay. > > > > > 1. Are there any mods to improve that god-awful display??? > > I wouldn't consider it God-awful :P But from the shattered remains of my > memory, I seem to recall that there may have been 40 column cards for it. > There was also some software which replaced the character maps with > something that resembled 40 columns but it ran at the same > resolution, so it > was beyond difficult to read... > > > > > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > > things? > > Do some net searches. You probably won't find any company that still sells > them, but you may be able to find a DIY expansion... > > > > > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? > > > > $11 ain't bad. "was it worth it" is objective - did you feel you it was > worth it? Some people will apperently pay $5k for a true IBM 5150 > PC, but I > wouldn't want it unless you delivered it to me, and only then if you had a > pizza in the other hand :) > > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 13:27:12 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422111304.02b6e960@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Daaaannnngggg! That's outright stupid! And then to tell people that you're doing it? What a putz! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chuck McManis > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 1:15 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the > run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... > > > The ones I don't get are the folks who seem to be otherwise legitimate > folks (leave their name and actual phone number with Ebay) and then after > the auction is over refuse to send the merchandise. What's up with that? > There was one guy I talked to (didn't buy from thankfully!) who > was selling > stuff he was taking home from the office since "no one at work seemed to > miss it." > > --Chuck > > At 01:01 AM 4/18/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Sheeesh...not surprised....at all.... > > > > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010417/wr/crime_ebay_dc_1.html > > > >I will continue to boycott this place as both a potential seller > and buyer. > > > >Claude > >Canuk Computer Collector > >http://computer_collector.t ripod.com > > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 13:29:04 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422111304.02b6e960@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Any guesses why Yahoo! might be interested in pushing a bad news story about ebay?? Gotta wonder since they also run an online auction. > -----Original Message----- > > >http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010417/wr/crime_ebay_dc_1.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 12:48:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment In-Reply-To: <1166.512T1800T6995497optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 22, 1 11:39:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/0cfb1bf2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 12:52:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <425.512T550T7304355optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 22, 1 12:10:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 927 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/856ce02d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 13:02:40 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> from "Lanny Cox" at Apr 22, 1 01:21:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2804 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/b03d1482/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 13:08:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller In-Reply-To: <3AE309E7.6830E6F6@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Apr 22, 1 11:42:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/0e57f77d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 13:25:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 mains adapter In-Reply-To: from "dave rogers" at Apr 25, 1 04:15:17 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/584afb84/attachment.ksh From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Apr 22 13:34:57 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Speaking of Faraday cages, how would one go about doing this? I'm preparing an area of my basement (directly below the breaker box :) to be used as a computer room, and I'd like to shield it as much as possible. Since the TV is going to be ~20 feet from the VAXen, I'm rather concerned... The cages I've seen are made from an expensive copper screen, like window screen, but they are for doing FCC interference measurements, not shielding. I can get 1/2 inch square fencing from the look home improvement center, but it is galvanized and quite a bit coarser... Comments? Clint On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Brian Chase wrote: > On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Gunther Schadow wrote: > > > I wonder, are we the first ones to fire up their 6000 in their private > > dwellings? > > Based on Geoff's page, I'd say he counts as one of the earliest if not the > first. Still, it's not so impressive as someone firing up an 11/780 or > one of the VAX 8000 series. They're true power hogs. > > > BTW: has anyone noticed major interference with radios or > > TVs (the label on the machine talks about it ...) > > Well, I'm not opposed to building a Faraday cage for my VAX if necessary. > :-) > > -brian. > --- Brian Chase | bdc@world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- > Windows is a 16-bit operating system > so it can only go up to 64k of bugs. -- K. > > > From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Sun Apr 22 13:33:35 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller References: <20010422180429.OQVS7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3AE323FF.4F02C7AF@bresnanlink.net> And to think that I've been worrying about finding thos 720KB drive. It looks like I don't need them. I know that the drive senses the media and adjusts the write current accordingly, to get around a bug in older drive controllers. But I'm still confused about how the drive talks to the controller. The PCjr will still try to format a HD disk - it will just fail. I'm not a hardware engineer, but it would seem reasonable to me that the controller and the drive always talk at the 250KHz rate, because the controller can't do anything else. For double density media this is fine, and the 1.44MB drive looks and smells just like a real 720KB drive. However, upon using a high density disk, commands to read and write data fail because the drive knows it has high density media, but it is still talking to the floppy controller at 250KHz (instead of 500KHz). Is this correct? Or does the drive sense that it has high density media, adjust it's data transfer rate to 500KHz, and then fail because the controller doesn't know what's going on? While we're on the topic, what do people use for archiving copy protected disks? I've tried older versions of TeleDisk, but it really has a hard time with Sargon III which makes me wonder if it is working reliably on my other titles. Thanks, Mike From ewy at southwind.net Sun Apr 22 14:19:55 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) References: <200104221733.KAA07076@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3AE32EDB.BB2501A5@southwind.net> "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > > This brings to mind the fact that (at least the first of) the > > > Amiga patents should be expiring within the next two or three years. > > > This should mean something to Amiga hobbyists, shouldn't it? I've > > > seen people implementing 6502 cores in FPGAs these days. Surely the > > > Amiga custom chips would be good candidates for similar treatment when > > > Gateway no longer has the right to sue somebody to make them quit. > > > (Gateway still owns the patents even though they no longer own the > > > Amiga trademark. What they plan to do with them in the next couple > > > years -- aside from keeping others from making good use of them -- is > > > beyond me.) > > > > Aren't the designs, which are what really matter here, still copyrighted? > > Copyright doesn't preclude other designs which perform equivalent tasks. > A reverse engineered version of a custom chip is perfectly legal under > copyright law despite recent attempts by congress to make it illegal. > > Under patent law it would not be, if the chip is similar enough to fall > under the specifics of the patent (as would surely be the case in this > instance.) > > Eric That's my understanding as well. There are (or at least have been) at least two Amiga clone motherboards developed in the post-Commodore era, but I believe that those use the same custom chips that the actual Amiga hardware used. As the supply of those chips necessarily dwindles, it would seem that people could replicate their functionality in high density programmable logic (FPGAs and whatnot) in order to make compatible designs, but for the patents. Actually, I seem to remember hearing that some of the Amiga patents were software patents -- can anybody confirm that? -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@_nospam_southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 22 14:18:16 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet Message-ID: <007001c0cb62$bc9c3040$f5759a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no >10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've >never seen one that does). Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never that slow. The 3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET. >There were no single-chip ethernet controllers, if that's what you're >asking. The ethernet circuitry for the classic PERQ (which was generally >10Mbps, but early enough that single-chip controllers didn't really >exist) is a 2910 sequencer, some microcode PROMs, some 9403 FIFOs, and a >lot of TTL glue logic (and some comparator-type parts for the interface >to the AUI connector). It takes up about 1/3rd of the EIO board. Correct, there wasn't current LSI that was fast enough in the beginning. The would change fairly quickly by 1984-85ish. Allison From rschaefe at gcfn.org Sun Apr 22 14:33:36 2001 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > Speaking of Faraday cages, how would one go about doing this? > > I'm preparing an area of my basement (directly below the breaker > box :) to be used as a computer room, and I'd like to shield it > as much as possible. Since the TV is going to be ~20 feet from > the VAXen, I'm rather concerned... I'm not sure you will get all that much interference out of one, unless you run it with the chassis open. There is a G_D awful lot of shielding already in the chassis, which is built of thick, heavy steel... > > The cages I've seen are made from an expensive copper screen, > like window screen, but they are for doing FCC interference > measurements, not shielding. I can get 1/2 inch square fencing > from the look home improvement center, but it is galvanized and > quite a bit coarser... I doubt that would do too much-- but IANAEE. YMMV. If I were to do something like that, I would check the local scrapyards for copper screen (just on the off chance) and most likely use {galvanized,}steel window-screen. Should be pretty cheap, all things considered. > > Comments? Never hurts to try. Let us know of it works out... > > Clint Bob From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 22 14:45:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) Message-ID: <007701c0cb64$d61f7d90$f5759a8d@ajp166> From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) >The cages I've seen are made from an expensive copper screen, >like window screen, but they are for doing FCC interference >measurements, not shielding. I can get 1/2 inch square fencing >from the look home improvement center, but it is galvanized and >quite a bit coarser... > >Comments? First a faraday cage to run a vax is foolish. The FCC notice refered to is basically a hint about whose reponseability it is to fix RFI problems should they occur. Often it's not a problem save for at point blank range. RE: galvanized screening vs fine copper screening. If you cant do it right dont bother. As the holes get larger and the resistivity increases the attenuation decreases. Also as the holes get bigger the frequency at which the screen becomes RF transparent also gets lower. So to get an effective faraday screen fine copper screening with well bonded (often soldered) joints and a door that has RF tight joints are used. Also any wires that enter or leave have to be bypassed to avoid it becomming a leakage path in either direction. I participated in building one and it's a lot of work and after testing to find RF leaks. At the other extreme a cage of .500 galvanized will have effect but the effect is far more limited. to prove it take a roll and make a mini cage large anough to hold a battery AM/FM radio and see what I can hear from inside it. Then take a tube and coat it with aluminum foil and try it with the same radio. You will also find it very difficult to solder or otherwise effectively bond the joints of a galvanized wire cage. Last item: The average system (even a PDP-8) will be much better in the RFI derby if all the covers are on and the correct cables are used. The later smaller one box systems are fairly decent if the case is metal and all the screws/hardware are in place. The killer items for RFI are SCSI cables, external disks that used any unshielded cables (BC05s come to mind) or monitors that used shielded cables but are incorrectly terminated. RS232 wires that do not use an external shield can be a path to propagate noise out of and otherwise tolerable box as well. Worst offender awards: TRS80 with EI... ghastly both radiating and affected by nearby transmitters. (1w 144mhz ht at 4ft would crash the average TRS80). Some of the Apple][s Early S100s with non-stripline and unterminated busses (altair!!!!). SBCs, no case at all most often. Many of the early all plastic cased (no internal conductive spray coat) with no internal shielding systems. Many (most) CRTs that are not metal boxed internally are noisy. Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 22 14:43:16 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Faraday cages (was Re: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422123804.0373dc20@208.226.86.10> At 12:34 PM 4/22/01 -0600, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: >Speaking of Faraday cages, how would one go about doing this? ... >The cages I've seen are made from an expensive copper screen, >like window screen, but they are for doing FCC interference >measurements, not shielding. I can get 1/2 inch square fencing >from the look home improvement center, but it is galvanized and >quite a bit coarser... ... Well the simple answer is you build a cage and you put your stuff in it :-). Aluminum is actually a fine material to make them out of as long as you don't allow the joints to get oxided up (Aluminum Oxide is an insulator!) "Holes" in the screen have to be smaller than the wavelength of the signal you are blocking. Thus if you are blocking microwaves (< 5mm) then you need to have holes smaller than that in your screen. The biggest issue we have at work with our cage is to make sure things transiting the cage (like power cables) don't have any RFI on them. The power goes through the cage to an isolation transformer then to the gear to help suppress that stuff. You can also get conductive paint that works ok for just shielding. (not tempest certified :-) --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 22 14:48:28 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:35 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller Message-ID: <007c01c0cb65$3ebe2cc0$f5759a8d@ajp166> From: Michael Brutman >I know that the drive senses the media and adjusts the write >current accordingly, to get around a bug in older drive >controllers. But I'm still confused about how the drive >talks to the controller. The PCjr will still try to format >a HD disk - it will just fail. 3.5" drives have no intelligence. There are signals that result from switches that the controller monitors and interprets. The media in place and media type switches are two such cases. They can be optical or mechanical but that's not a factor. >I'm not a hardware engineer, but it would seem reasonable to >me that the controller and the drive always talk at the 250KHz >rate, because the controller can't do anything else. For >double density media this is fine, and the 1.44MB drive looks >and smells just like a real 720KB drive. However, upon using >a high density disk, commands to read and write data fail >because the drive knows it has high density media, but it is >still talking to the floppy controller at 250KHz (instead of >500KHz). The controller or the drive does do some limited things based on media sensor switch and that is why you must block the hole to make it work. Allison > >Is this correct? Or does the drive sense that it has >high density media, adjust it's data transfer rate to 500KHz, >and then fail because the controller doesn't know what's >going on? > >While we're on the topic, what do people use for archiving >copy protected disks? I've tried older versions of TeleDisk, >but it really has a hard time with Sargon III which makes me >wonder if it is working reliably on my other titles. > > >Thanks, >Mike From edick at idcomm.com Sun Apr 22 14:51:14 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet References: Message-ID: <003d01c0cb65$96a4ebe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> IN '85 Intel's 82586 and others were already quite available, though I'm not sure how long they'd been around. AMD's 7990 was on a board I worked back in '84, though it was not a production part. I have an AMD 7990 on the floor here that's copyright 1985. Since the 7990 used a separate modulator, I guess it's really not a single-chip device, however. By late '89 there was a British company that made a part, of which I believe I was one of the earliest users, which was a single-chip device (called ENZO and packaged in an 80-pin (?) pqfp) tailored for the PC-market, with a host interface and the modulator and everything in between on board. Only the COAX interface had to be external, which required a couple of TTL/ECL translation stages and the reverse, in addition to the usual transformer and coax driver (which always was a costly component!). Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 11:52 AM Subject: Re: 3Mb Ethernet > > > > As we all know, Ethernet was only running at 3 Mbit in the early days. When > > was the move to 10 Mbit done and is 10Mb Ethernet backwards compatible? > > AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no > 10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've > never seen one that does). > > > Also, were there any Ethernet controllers back in the old days, or what kind > > of interfacing did old Ethernet capable equipment such as the SUN 1 or DECNA > > use? > > There were no single-chip ethernet controllers, if that's what you're > asking. The ethernet circuitry for the classic PERQ (which was generally > 10Mbps, but early enough that single-chip controllers didn't really > exist) is a 2910 sequencer, some microcode PROMs, some 9403 FIFOs, and a > lot of TTL glue logic (and some comparator-type parts for the interface > to the AUI connector). It takes up about 1/3rd of the EIO board. > > -tony > > From bdc at world.std.com Sun Apr 22 14:54:44 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <007001c0cb62$bc9c3040$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote: > From: Tony Duell > > AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no > > 10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've > > never seen one that does). > > > Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never that slow. The > 3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET. No, ARCNET is a different beast. The original implementation of Ethernet at Xerox PARC on the Altos systems ran at 3Mbps. ACM has a webified version of the 1976 paper "Ethernet: Distributed Packet Switching for Local Computer Networks" by Robert M. Metcalf and David R. Boggs. http://www.acm.org/classics/apr96/ Under section 4 of the paper, it is explained that 3Mbps was used because of the nature of their minicomputers. Some other sources around the web say that the first implementation done at PARC was done in 1973. My guess is that around that time, most minicomputers wouldn't be able to deal very well with a firehose of data streaming in at 10Mbps. The IEEE 802.3 standard didn't come about until a number of years later. -brian. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Apr 22 15:01:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Apr 22, 1 01:20:46 pm" Message-ID: <200104222001.NAA10798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > You'll hate me for saying this but I got my 128D, printer, monitor, etc and > a ton of software in swap for a Sound Blaster 16 card. I like it way more > than the old 64's...and the thremal color printer is nice other than > tracking down sources for ribbons. Yeah, I hate you. My "new" 128DCR cost me $45 by itself. But they definitely beat the 64 with the internal disk drive and nice case/keyboard. The thermal printer -- are you talking about the Okimates? They are very good printers, ribbons aside -- especially the colour output. It's almost as good as dye sub except for the resolution. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Apr 22 15:07:09 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> from Lanny Cox at "Apr 22, 1 01:21:16 pm" Message-ID: <200104222007.NAA11088@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I recently picked up a VIC-20 with Tape Recorder, Joystick, 5 games, etc. > on EBay for 11 bucks. It was my first purchase as a classic comp collector, > and I had a few questions concerning it and was wondering if any of you guys > could answer: > > 1. Are there any mods to improve that god-awful display??? There is a 40-column cartridge for it but they are hard to find. The major problem is the screen resolution. Some programs do a software 40-column screen. > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > things? Vintage Computer (http://www.vintagecomputer.com/) might. > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? Not bad. My VIC-20 cost me $10. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing. -- R. L. Ash ------------- From foxnhare at jps.net Sun Apr 22 15:08:34 2001 From: foxnhare at jps.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: First Color Portable Computer? References: <200104221927.OAA31627@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3AE33A3F.BFB3C3DC@jps.net> Gosh, you have better memory then I do! Here's my source for that quote in the display, which I have found very detailed, and it made the claim about the color bit, it could have been on the Commodore Press release for all I know of it: Current web link to the chonology: http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/ - - - - - QUOTED FROM THE DOCUMENT I USED Chronology of Events in the History of Microcomputers Copyright (C) 1995-96 Ken Polsson internet e-mail: ken.polsson@bbc.org References are indicated in [brackets], which are listed at the end of this document. A [number.number] format gives the page within that reference. ... 1983 January... o Commodore introduces the SX-64, the first color portable computer. Weight is 10.5 kg. It incorporates a 5-inch color monitor and one or two 5.25 inch floppy drive. Price is US$1600. [190.81] [349.16] [444.496] ... - - - - - - > Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 16:18:16 -0700 > From: "Wayne M. Smith" > Subject: First Color Portable Computer? > > I know that a lot of you dislike "which was first" > discussions, but this one has been bothering me for a > while so here goes. > > At VCF 4.0, there was a nice Commodore display with a > timeline that had an entry under "1983" stating that > the Commodore SX-64 was released as the world's "first > color portable computer." If you search the net, > you'll find a number of sites that make the same claim, > although you'll find just as many sites that say it was > first sold in 1984. -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Classic Commodore pages at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 22 15:15:05 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: Re: 3Mb Ethernet (Brian Chase) References: <007001c0cb62$bc9c3040$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <15075.15305.674769.947504@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 22, Brian Chase wrote: > The IEEE 802.3 standard didn't come about until a number of years later. Oddly enough (have to toot my own horn here) when I was in my late teens/early wenties, I worked for a tiny (floated between 2-5 employees) desktop publishing and database application development firm called Princeton Desktop Systems, Inc., now based in Trenton, NJ. (see http://www.billtrak.com for what they're doing now) When I was with them, this company did everything from building custom PeeCees (the '386 had just come out) to refilling toner cartridges to producing camera-ready copy for newsletters and such. This company was founded by, and is owned & operated by, Gerald J. Clancy, Jr., the guy who chaired the IEEE 802.3 committee. A funny and cantakerous fellow, he's an absolutely brilliant programmer. Earlier in life Jerry was one of the principal developers of OS/360, and also spent some early time at Honeywell. I learned a tremendous amount from him during the 3 or so years I worked there. His "old school" computer science background affords him a depth of understanding of algorithms and data structures that no WhizBangCollegeBoyVisualBasic weenie could ever hope to achieve today. I count myself as extremly lucky for having had a mentor of such caliber. -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Sun Apr 22 15:33:00 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Robert F Schaefer wrote: > On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > box :) to be used as a computer room, and I'd like to shield it > > as much as possible. Since the TV is going to be ~20 feet from > > the VAXen, I'm rather concerned... > I'm not sure you will get all that much interference out of one, unless > you run it with the chassis open. There is a G_D awful lot of shielding > already in the chassis, which is built of thick, heavy steel... Heck, most of us in this group probably generate way more RFI playing around with high-voltage experiments like jacobs ladders and other things that use a spark-gap; I wouldn't worry about any RFI from a computer, even with the panels off, which is a perfectly reasonable way to run one, as it makes troubleshooting easier. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 15:54:57 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <200104222001.NAA10798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Yep. Got an Okimate 10 and 20 with it, gave my brother in law the 10 and kept the 20. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 3:02 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VIC-20 > > > > You'll hate me for saying this but I got my 128D, printer, > monitor, etc and > > a ton of software in swap for a Sound Blaster 16 card. I like > it way more > > than the old 64's...and the thremal color printer is nice other than > > tracking down sources for ribbons. > > Yeah, I hate you. My "new" 128DCR cost me $45 by itself. But they > definitely > beat the 64 with the internal disk drive and nice case/keyboard. > > The thermal printer -- are you talking about the Okimates? They are very > good printers, ribbons aside -- especially the colour output. It's almost > as good as dye sub except for the resolution. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible > ("Crack-Up") ------------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 15:57:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <007001c0cb62$bc9c3040$f5759a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Apr 22, 1 03:18:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 727 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/decf344a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 16:01:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <003d01c0cb65$96a4ebe0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 22, 1 01:51:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 716 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/adc2a6f0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 16:11:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller In-Reply-To: <3AE323FF.4F02C7AF@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Apr 22, 1 01:33:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2801 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/22213eed/attachment.ksh From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sun Apr 22 17:17:20 2001 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > Any guesses why Yahoo! might be interested in pushing a bad news story about > ebay?? Gotta wonder since they also run an online auction. > Don't think they are "pushing" it, that's pretty much just stuff that comes in over the wire as far as I can tell. jbdigriz From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 22 17:13:45 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm slightly happy in that I got my paws on the above machine today, complete with a CD, MacinStore hard drive and Magneto-Optical drive. What I'm not slightly happy about is that I discovered later on that because the SCSI on the IIfx is 3 times quicker than the SCSI on other MacIIs I need the special 'black' terminator to make it all work. I remember the terminator being in a box of cables but because I didn't know it was necessary I didn't pick it up and the chances of it being there next week are slim. Begging time - anyone got a spare? :) Also, I picked up another Sanyo MBC555 just to get the RGB monitor - Sellam's mentioned (with just a hint of irony :) that the MBC is one of this list's 'favourite' machines so I take it that it's not well liked here? If so why not? cheers! adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum (as featured in Computer Weekly) 0:OK, 0:1 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 13:34:57 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010422223315.RIRA17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Adrian Graham" > To: "Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org" > Subject: Mac IIfx > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:13:45 +0100 > Importance: Normal > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Hi folks, > Snip > special 'black' terminator to make it all work. I remember the terminator > being in a box of cables but because I didn't know it was necessary I didn't > pick it up and the chances of it being there next week are slim. > > Begging time - anyone got a spare? :) Good catch on those vast oddball Mac IIfx. Besides that terminator block, it use oddball IIfx-only memory sticks due to memory speed, some of apple printers uses this ram factor but they're slower rated. That done, terminator is not the issue, get any active SE terminator they're not that expensive new and easily found with good catalog, even startech has these. Even '030/'8881 at blistering 40Mhz, full '040-25 trounces it due to both built in cache w/ low losses and efficient CPU and FPU built in. But that IIfx was out way earlier than '040 did. Another example, 386dx w/ fpu and external cache clocked at 40MHz gets kicked off by 486dx 25 w/ no external cache and built in 8K cache. > Also, I picked up another Sanyo MBC555 just to get the RGB monitor - > Sellam's mentioned (with just a hint of irony :) that the MBC is one of this > list's 'favourite' machines so I take it that it's not well liked here? If > so why not? Pukes but again good way to show the worst examples if some is curious about that. Nothing wrong with your wishes, just that I had those MBC555s. ;-) Cheers, Wizard From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 17:16:17 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Microtech Genesis 120 MO drive In-Reply-To: <002c01c0cb4c$9e02a3a0$0a00a8c0@azog> References: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: I just won this auction, and I am real curious about what it is. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1231005250 Auction says; Microtech Genesis 120 MO drive + extras This is a 120mb internal MO drive. Includes all original software: Pro-DOS trans-port and Genesis 120 System Disk on floppy and a Genesis 120 MO disk. This appears to be a standard MO drive - I had no difficulties using a MO disk that came from a Sony drive in this device. (drive label says it was manufactured by IBM). ********* Most of the reason I bid on this auction is that I have (3) similar looking IBM MO drives that are 540 MB and maybe just maybe the software is compatible (the auction units say they are for a mac). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 17:23:38 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Cute Vax 5500, in SoCal In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422110104.02226d70@208.226.86.10> References: <004201c0c8fe$bcc2df30$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: Interesting, in my digging around the place I picked up three old keyboards and mice, one of them says its mips. Nobody on the list is local enough to get it, so my guess is that it gets scrapped in a week or so. >That would be the DECSystem 5500, a MIPS based PMAX (not a VAX). I've got a >dead BA400 chassis for one :-) > >--Chuck > >At 06:43 PM 4/19/01 -0700, you wrote: >>I saw a cute little vax today at a scrap yard, apparently still intact, it >>was a 5500 in a BA400 chassis. I don't think I can bring it home, but >>should I be tempted? Anybody else in SoCal looking for one? From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 17:46:44 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not much into Commode ore (cracks me up, sorry), but talk about memory expansion lit some bulb in my memory, and a bit of snooping turned up (3) modules, VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20. Email me directly if interested in one, and I will figure out something fair. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 17:58:39 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I'm slightly happy in that I got my paws on the above machine today, >complete with a CD, MacinStore hard drive and Magneto-Optical drive. What >I'm not slightly happy about is that I discovered later on that because the >SCSI on the IIfx is 3 times quicker than the SCSI on other MacIIs I need the >special 'black' terminator to make it all work. I remember the terminator >being in a box of cables but because I didn't know it was necessary I didn't >pick it up and the chances of it being there next week are slim. > >Begging time - anyone got a spare? :) Sure, but.... Try it first with a regular terminator and see if it doesn't work just fine. SCSI voodoo and all that stuff, you really can't predict what will or won't work (unless you have Granite SCSI cables like I do, neener neener). If you still really need one, and can't find it in the UK, I have them, just email me directly and I will see what shipping etc. looks like. What kind of MO drive did you get? From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 22 18:09:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Microtech Genesis 120 MO drive In-Reply-To: References: <000901c0cb44$1681e4c0$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: Mike, If you're on a Mac and have a format/mounting utility such as FWB Hard DIsk Toolbox, you should be able to use your other MO's without special software. I've found that I can use the FWB software with my Mac and then move it to a PC laptop with an Adaptec SCSI baord and their EZ-SCSI software and it works fine. It also works fine under OS/2 using a Future Domain board, though I've yet to get DOS to play ball with it on the same machine since the Future Domain drivers don't support removable media other than CD-ROMs. Will try the same drive on my SCSI-equipped Amiga 500 shortly. Jeff >I just won this auction, and I am real curious about what it is. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1231005250 > >Auction says; > >Microtech Genesis 120 MO drive + extras >This is a 120mb internal MO drive. Includes all original software: Pro-DOS >trans-port and Genesis 120 System Disk on floppy and a Genesis 120 MO disk. >This appears to be a standard MO drive - I had no difficulties using a MO >disk that came from a Sony drive in this device. (drive label says it was >manufactured by IBM). > >********* >Most of the reason I bid on this auction is that I have (3) similar looking >IBM MO drives that are 540 MB and maybe just maybe the software is >compatible (the auction units say they are for a mac). -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ks at coastalnet.com Sun Apr 22 18:11:03 2001 From: ks at coastalnet.com (Kirk Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20 References: Message-ID: <3AE36507.3059@coastalnet.com> Mike Ford wrote: > (3) > modules, VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20. Email me directly if interested in one, > and I will figure out something fair. Are you sure that's not the 16K memory module? If it is I'd like one... Kirk Scott ks@coastalnet.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 22 18:11:40 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'm not much into Commode ore (cracks me up, sorry), but talk about memory >expansion lit some bulb in my memory, and a bit of snooping turned up (3) >modules, VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20. Email me directly if interested in one, >and I will figure out something fair. Certainly you meant 16k vice 16 MB?? Still, considering that it came with 3k, a 16k RAM expansion would stil be pretty useful. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 14:14:05 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010422231223.QUDL7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> The problem is seller isn't responding to any of my emails except for one email from them without any replies to my emails. I sent 2 emails after won the item, and this seller had friday all day to respond in person by email except for one email I got from this seller. Note this email there is nothing that they read or responded to any of my emails. Basic info I sent I wanted to get shipping cost on USPS ground with my address given in first email sent to that seller, second email basically I said "knock, knock, anybody home yet"??. I also sent one more reply with this email snipped out and a request for reference to earlier emails. > From: MacVizion@aol.com > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:51:19 EDT > Subject: E-Bay Auction #1230313635 - ROM SIMM For 6100 7100 8100 > To: jpero@sympatico.ca > Hello & Congratulations, > > You were high bidder on our ROM SIMM auction on E-bay. > Your Final Bid was $10.45 > Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service > If this will be an international order, contact us for a shipping quote > The Total Via Priority Mail In The Continental US Will Be $16.45 > > We are a Licensed Texas Retailer. > Include 8.25% Sales Tax On Merchandise Shipped To a Texas Address. > (Include Tax On Merchandise Only - Not On Shipping Fees) > > Include Shipping Address, Auction Number, Telephone And E-mail with order. > Not Including one of these Items Will Result in Shipping Delays. > > Credit Card transactions May be Completed Via Fax, E-Mail Or Phone. > Phone: (806) 324-8060 Fax: (806) 342-9332 > > For Mailed Payments We Accept Checks, Money Orders & Cashier's Checks. > When mailing from outside the US 48 states, International Money orders only. > > Please Mail Payments To: > Michael Stebbins > 3655 Canyon Drive > Amarillo, Texas 79110 > > Secured Funds & Credit Card Orders Usually Ship within Two Business Days Of > Payment. Unsecured Funds may not ship until cleared by our bank. > > If You Have any Questions or Comments Please E-mail or Phone us. > > Thanks for your business, > > Michael Stebbins & Michael Lam > > > I need your help to get some sense into that owner. Or is there a way to get out of this deal and give a black eye to seller? Here's the ebay ROM stick part I won for my 7100 rebuild. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1230313635 I think I prefers to give that seller a black eye for poor customer relations and look for other 7100 parts on ebay if this is possible. Phoning is impractical for me. LD call and using relay is slow way and cost eater. Cheers, Wizard From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 22 18:28:40 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <20010422231223.QUDL7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3AE36928.F04C5235@rain.org> I think you are being more than a bit impatient. Since this seller has 2000+ feedback, and only 2 negs, I don't know exactly why you feel the need to give the seller a black eye. This appears to be a business, and if it is closed on weekends and takes care of email in the morning, you will receive an answer tomorrow morning. Not everyone lives on a computer. jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > The problem is seller isn't responding to any of my emails except for > one email from them without any replies to my emails. > > I sent 2 emails after won the item, and this seller had friday > all day to respond in person by email except for one email I got from > this seller. Note this email there is nothing that they read or > responded to any of my emails. > > Basic info I sent I wanted to get shipping cost on USPS ground with > my address given in first email sent to that seller, second email > basically I said "knock, knock, anybody home yet"??. I also sent one > more reply with this email snipped out and a request for reference to > earlier emails. > > > From: MacVizion@aol.com > > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:51:19 EDT > > Subject: E-Bay Auction #1230313635 - ROM SIMM For 6100 7100 8100 > > To: jpero@sympatico.ca > > > Hello & Congratulations, > > > > You were high bidder on our ROM SIMM auction on E-bay. > > Your Final Bid was $10.45 > > Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service > > If this will be an international order, contact us for a shipping quote > > The Total Via Priority Mail In The Continental US Will Be $16.45 > > > > We are a Licensed Texas Retailer. > > Include 8.25% Sales Tax On Merchandise Shipped To a Texas Address. > > (Include Tax On Merchandise Only - Not On Shipping Fees) > > > > Include Shipping Address, Auction Number, Telephone And E-mail with order. > > Not Including one of these Items Will Result in Shipping Delays. > > > > Credit Card transactions May be Completed Via Fax, E-Mail Or Phone. > > Phone: (806) 324-8060 Fax: (806) 342-9332 > > > > For Mailed Payments We Accept Checks, Money Orders & Cashier's Checks. > > When mailing from outside the US 48 states, International Money orders only. > > > > Please Mail Payments To: > > Michael Stebbins > > 3655 Canyon Drive > > Amarillo, Texas 79110 > > > > Secured Funds & Credit Card Orders Usually Ship within Two Business Days Of > > Payment. Unsecured Funds may not ship until cleared by our bank. > > > > If You Have any Questions or Comments Please E-mail or Phone us. > > > > Thanks for your business, > > > > Michael Stebbins & Michael Lam > > > > > > > > I need your help to get some sense into that owner. Or is there a > way to get out of this deal and give a black eye to seller? > > Here's the ebay ROM stick part I won for my 7100 rebuild. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1230313635 > > I think I prefers to give that seller a black eye for poor customer > relations and look for other 7100 parts on ebay if this is possible. > Phoning is impractical for me. LD call and using relay is slow way > and cost eater. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Apr 22 18:33:14 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Macintosh stuff for sale or trade Message-ID: Greetings all, I have the following Mac stuff for sale (no offer refused): 1 Macintosh II Video card Network card hard drive dual floppy case is unevenly discolored 1 Kinetics KFPS-4 ethernet to appletalk box (coax/AUI) 1 Kinetics KFPS-2 ethernet to appletalk box (AUI only) Shipping from Denver, CO 80020 clint From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 15:00:51 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE36928.F04C5235@rain.org> Message-ID: <20010422235909.SAUV6402.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:28:40 -0700 > From: Marvin > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > I think you are being more than a bit impatient. Since this seller has 2000+ > feedback, and only 2 negs, I don't know exactly why you feel the need to > give the seller a black eye. This appears to be a business, and if it is > closed on weekends and takes care of email in the morning, you will receive > an answer tomorrow morning. Not everyone lives on a computer. I know, I'm going to give seller whole monday till midnight a chance to repute. Remember, seller had whole friday to respond since this auction ended on thursday night of 19th and that my 1st email after that auction ended went out on that night before that. Pls snip the email if replying for benefiting users who is on pay by min phone line connections. All my last 4 sellers I dealt with were excellent because they care about keeping in touch with buyers. Cheers, Wizard From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 22 19:08:28 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010422231223.QUDL7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422165807.02c10140@208.226.86.10> At 07:14 PM 4/22/01 +0000, you wrote: >The problem is seller isn't responding to any of my emails except for >one email from them without any replies to my emails. Why not give him a call on the telephone at (806) 324-8060 like he said in his email? --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 22 19:11:56 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: "ajp166" "Re: 3Mb Ethernet" (Apr 22, 15:18) References: <007001c0cb62$bc9c3040$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <10104230111.ZM25651@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 22, 15:18, ajp166 wrote: > From: Tony Duell > >AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no > >10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've > >never seen one that does). > > Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never that slow. The > 3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET. ARCnet is different, it's a proprietary system, not at all the same as the original 3Mb/s Ethernet, which is sometimes referred to as "Experimental Ethernet". BTW, ARCnet is 2.5Mb/s, not 3Mb/s. Instead of CSMA/CD access control, it uses a token-passing system, rather like Token Ring or FDDI, although it's a bus (like thick Ethernet) not a ring. Which is why its other name is Token Bus :-) The original Experimental Ethernet is very similar to 802.3 in many respects, including the topology, CSMA/CD, and several other things, but not in details like addressing, packet framing, packet length. I think it uses 75-ohm devices rather than 50-ohm, but I've never seen a live 3Mb/s system, so I can't be sure. It led directly to the DIX (DEC-Intel-Xerox) consortium's Ethernet specification, which in turn led to the 802.3 standard. If you want to read the original spec, the relevant paper is at http://www.acm.org/classics/apr96/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Apr 22 19:29:36 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: Brian Chase "Re: 3Mb Ethernet" (Apr 22, 14:54) References: Message-ID: <10104230129.ZM25664@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 22, 14:54, Brian Chase wrote: > Under section 4 of the paper, it is explained that 3Mbps was used because > of the nature of their minicomputers. Some other sources around the web > say that the first implementation done at PARC was done in 1973. My guess > is that around that time, most minicomputers wouldn't be able to deal very > well with a firehose of data streaming in at 10Mbps. > > The IEEE 802.3 standard didn't come about until a number of years later. 1974-ish: Experimental Ethernet 3Mb/s 1980: DIX Ethernet 10Mb/s 1982: DIX Ethernet Version 2 10Mb/s 1983: IEEE 802.3 Ethernet 10Mb/s (10base5) 1985: IEEE 802.3a Thin Ethernet 10Mb/s (10base2) 1990: IEEE 802.3i 10baseT Ethernet 1995: IEEE 803.3u 100Mb/s Ethernet 100BaseTx, 100baseT4, 100baseFX 1998: IEEE 802.3z 1000Mb/s (Gigabit) Ethernet -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 19:20:52 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010422231223.QUDL7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1230313635 > >I think I prefers to give that seller a black eye for poor customer >relations and look for other 7100 parts on ebay if this is possible. >Phoning is impractical for me. LD call and using relay is slow way >and cost eater. > >Cheers, > >Wizard Just relax. I see no problem at all, except the first few steps in the ebay learning curve. You are dealing with an auction that ended on Friday the 19th, and have received a typical notice from the seller. This store has 2600 positives on eBay, and maybe a couple dozen negatives, so chances of ANY problem being on there end are pretty small. Your auction could have been one of maybe 50 to 75 they had end on Friday, so don't expect a lot of rapid back and forth email, or really ANY further response before sometime on Monday. Best advice is just to respond to the emails they send you with the requested information. Most high volume sellers use software to generate and "read" all the ebay related email, and don't expect to write personal messages to anybody unless a "real" problem exists. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 19:31:12 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20 In-Reply-To: <3AE36507.3059@coastalnet.com> References: Message-ID: >> modules, VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20. Email me directly if interested in one, >> and I will figure out something fair. > >Are you sure that's not the 16K memory module? If it is I'd like one... > >Kirk Scott >ks@coastalnet.com Thats the trouble moving from new to old computers, the brain just doesn't adjust that fast. Yes they are actually 16k memory expansions, and claim on booting the screen should show something like 19,000 bytes free in basic. Sorry for confusion. From emu at ecubics.com Sun Apr 22 19:47:03 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: low level scsi format References: Message-ID: <3AE37B87.1BF2B049@ecubics.com> Hi all, Just because I have a "small" storage with very different SCSI drives, I just wanted to check them. So, what is the best SCSI low level format / test program ? preferably on DOS, so it could fit on a floppy ? Any ideas welcome ;-) cheers From louiss at gate.net Sun Apr 22 19:55:07 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104230055.UAA83606@shuswap.gate.net> On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:11:30 +0100 (BST), Tony Duell wrote: #[1] Actually, the PC/AT controller will _also_ do 300kbps. This is a #kludge to correctly read 5.25" DD disks (recorded at 250kbps in a 300rpm #drive) in an HD 5.25" drive (which turns at 360rpm. This kludge is unnecessary, of course, if you are using a dual speed drive (such as some of the TEAC HD drives) with a dual speed controller (the floppy controller on many Adaptec cards, such as the 1540B, can be set up this way). Then, since the drive is always running at the "right" speed for the type of disk, there is no need to have different data rates. Louis From PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp Sun Apr 22 20:05:46 2001 From: PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5KayEhTVswbBsoQg==?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touc In-Reply-To: <065301c0c9a2$f8e33a60$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> References: <20010420215701.53f61cd1.18933@nifty.ne.jp> <065301c0c9a2$f8e33a60$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <20010423100546.53f61cd1.25954@nifty.ne.jp> Thank you for your information! Wow, Gavilan was so advanced at that era! I also tried to find any info on the Web about the "Marble Olivetti" in your m essage, but so far no success. Yoichi ----- Original Message ----- > > The Gavilan did indeed have a touchpad above the keyboard in 1983. I happen > to have a presskit and photos. Its position--at a 90-degree angle to the > keyboard--would have made it awkward to use. > > I recall seeing an odd Olivetti notebook with a touchpad in the late 80's, > which I think would pre-date the Powerbook. The Olivetti also had a faux > Italian marble finish. > > --Mike > > Michael Nadeau > Editorial Services > 603-893-2379 From PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp Sun Apr 22 20:10:46 2001 From: PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5KayEhTVswbBsoQg==?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010423101046.53f61cd1.25954@nifty.ne.jp> Thanks for your information! I found the spec and picture of MC400 on the Web. That's cool indeed! 60 hours of battery life with 80C86 CPU is amazing. Psion is not well known in Japan, but I think it's one of the coolest mobile P C manufacturers in the world. > Not PC-compatible, but Psion sold a thing called an MC400 that had a > touchpad-type of pointing device. You moved your finger over it to select > icons and menus on the display, and then clicked by pressing down -- the > whole touchpad moved down slightly and operated a microswitch inside the > machine. > > I have no idea if it was the first (I think the Gavilan would pre-date it > if it has a similar touchpad), but it was pre-powerbook I am almost > certain. The Psions were being sold off in the UK in the early 1990's, so > they must have come out a few years before that. > > -tony From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Apr 22 20:12:33 2001 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <20010422231223.QUDL7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> Relax... Not everyone is on their system 24/7. I've done business MacVizion and they are a reputable seller. e-bay sellers typically take up to three BUSINESS days to respond. Also, the note they sent you appears to answer your question... "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" Jim From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 16:15:18 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: low level scsi format In-Reply-To: <3AE37B87.1BF2B049@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <20010423011337.SVSQ6402.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:47:03 -0600 > From: emanuel stiebler > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: low level scsi format > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Hi all, > > Just because I have a "small" storage with very different SCSI drives, > I just wanted to check them. The best thing you can do is a basic Mac ie LC, LCII LCIII or like and hacked 7.3.5 HD SC, homemade Mac to pc VGA monitor adapter cable. Dead easy to do that patch and fits on a disk and excellent way to do that tests due to long tests/formatting process. Once you get all scsi HD checked out, simply transfer them to dos machines and reformat them. The utils and like even w/ built in those winblows for peecees are *lousy* I tell you. This is why I know because I just saved MO cart with one side bad into good whole cart w/ APS powertools on Mac. That 1GB MO cart for certain drive cost about 130CDN EACH! Ouch!! Once again, I tell you all, I searched high and low on 'net for peecee utils for the formatting/repairing scsi based drives especially for MO or removeable stuff doesn't exist as far as I can tell besides original ones that came with external drives that original owners lost them. If Adaptec did have one, it is $$$ and might not work with older or might be poorly done. Cheers, Wizard From PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp Sun Apr 22 20:19:31 2001 From: PXI07377 at nifty.ne.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCPi5KayEhTVswbBsoQg==?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touc In-Reply-To: <934.511T1600T1185393optimus@canit.se> References: <934.511T1600T1185393optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010423101931.53f61cd1.25954@nifty.ne.jp> Thanks for your info! Regarding Atari, it's like a ThinkPad's stick as a knob I think. > > ??????+z > Nice name you've got there. =) > > >I'd like to know what was the world's first notebook PC with > >touchpad (or glidepoint, trackpad, whatever). > > >My friend insist that it was PowerBook 520/540 from Apple, > >but I doubt it. I know Gavilan laptop had one, but I don't > >know it was truely mouse-like pointing device or not. > > >Does anyone know other notebook (laptop) PC with touchpad > >prior to PowerBook? > > The Atari ST Book (which was not a PC, but a notebook Atari) had a rather > exotic pointing device. Could anyone elaborate on how it operated? I suppose > http://www.atari-history.org/ has got more info. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno > shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, > quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p > Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 16:29:47 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:12:33 -0700 > From: Jim Arnott > Organization: WetWesties > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Relax... Not everyone is on their system 24/7. I've done business > MacVizion and they are a reputable seller. e-bay sellers typically take > up to three BUSINESS days to respond. Also, the note they sent you > appears to answer your question... > > "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" Psst. 1. I'm in Canada. 2. Mike Ford, that auction ended on *thursday night of 19th*, friday was 20th. That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm waiting for his last chance on Monday. Milt sells lot of bunch and he always keep interested buyers up and up if he is busy or whatever. Cheers, Wizard From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Apr 22 19:44:58 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: New stuff Message-ID: <01042220524503.01834@fatty> Just came back with a van full of goodies. 11/750 with box's full of docs and prints. Early versions of VMS software and New docs in binders. DECwriter II DECstation 2100 Box's of brand new sealed magtapes Spare boards for 11/750's Software for the 11/780. Data General 9-track tape drive from a MV20000 series. RA-92 etc... I also found a VAX 6000 but I beleive the owner has unrealistic ideas of what he can get for it. Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From co273 at freenet.buffalo.edu Sun Apr 22 20:58:07 2001 From: co273 at freenet.buffalo.edu (Kev) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi. Can anybody provide me with some info on the IBM PGA/PGC adapters for the IBM PC/XT systems? I heard that it is one of the first video adapters with on-board transform capabilities, and that it is very ahead of its time. Can anyone please elaborate? Also, where can I get some pictures, and is it still available for purchase? From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 22 20:59:09 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx In-Reply-To: Re: Mac IIfx (jpero@sympatico.ca) References: <20010422223315.RIRA17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <15075.35949.844438.750242@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 22, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Even '030/'8881 at blistering 40Mhz, full '040-25 trounces it due to > both built in cache w/ low losses and efficient CPU and FPU built in. > But that IIfx was out way earlier than '040 did. Another example, ...except for the fact that the IIfx has about a half dozen other processors in there doing all sorts of other stuff to offload that '030. It was the first Mac, for example, that could go about its business formatting a floppy disk and give its (then single-tasking) OS back to the user because the format was running on a separate processor. -Dave McGuire From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Apr 22 20:06:04 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <01042221070904.01834@fatty> The ONE and ONLY reason I am no longer self employed..... On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, you wrote: > > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:12:33 -0700 > > From: Jim Arnott > > Organization: WetWesties > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Relax... Not everyone is on their system 24/7. I've done business > > MacVizion and they are a reputable seller. e-bay sellers typically take > > up to three BUSINESS days to respond. Also, the note they sent you > > appears to answer your question... > > > > "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" > > Psst. > > 1. I'm in Canada. > > 2. Mike Ford, that auction ended on *thursday night of 19th*, > friday was 20th. > > That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm > waiting for his last chance on Monday. > > Milt sells lot of bunch and he always keep interested buyers up and > up if he is busy or whatever. > > Cheers, > > Wizard -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 22 21:05:04 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3AE38DD0.876CF239@rain.org> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. If you will take the time to read the guidelines, you will find that they word it "Generally within *3 business days* is a good idea." IMNSHO, your comments, so far, do not reflect well on you as a buyer. I don't think any seller in their right mind will purposely delay concluding a transaction. And yes, I saw your feedback, and it is an *excellent* start. As far as I can tell, the comments back to you here are from people experienced with online buying/selling, and it would be a good idea to at least give them some consideration :)! From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 17:08:26 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010423020705.SLPO7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:58:07 -0400 (EDT) > From: Kev > To: Classic Computer List > Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Hi. Can anybody provide me with some info on the IBM PGA/PGC adapters for > the IBM PC/XT systems? > > I heard that it is one of the first video adapters with on-board transform > capabilities, and that it is very ahead of its time. Can anyone please > elaborate? > Also, where can I get some pictures, and is it still available for > purchase? Half-half acceleration due to built in CPU and can compute arcs, lines etc for cad work I think. But I know PGA is grossly unusual design and unrealistic cost kept it from very common plus it requires non-standard PGA monitor to go with it. Cost was about 5,000 I think. BTW, it is 3 boards package and monitor. Saw both monitor and card set but not in action. Cheers, Wizard From rdd at smart.net Sun Apr 22 21:12:03 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:36 2005 Subject: Craters and Freighters In-Reply-To: <200104200447.VAA06956@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Out of curiosity, how many cabinets, and how much and how far is the > shipping? This VAX 4000-200 is just in one cabinet; the shipping cost from Texas was around US$170. The system looked like it was full of boards and has a couple of DSSI drives in it; no SCSI, alas. BTW, is there anyone who can use some assorted weird IBM stuff, such as a smallish processor unit for bank branches that connects to mainframe, and a few small about 9" diagonal, IIRC, monitors? It's taking up space that I need for other things, but I don't want to toss it out. It's got an 8" floppy drive, and perhaps with some hacking, it could be used as some sort of controller for something or other. I really don't want to have to ship this - I'm in the Baltimore area. Is anyone interested in some sort of trade for this? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 22 21:17:00 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: New stuff In-Reply-To: <01042220524503.01834@fatty> Message-ID: >Just came back with a van full of goodies. > >11/750 with box's full of docs and prints. >Early versions of VMS software and New docs in binders. Way cool! I'd love a setup like that, just don't have room. >I also found a VAX 6000 but I beleive the owner has unrealistic >ideas of what he can get for it. Most people that are trying to get rid of VAX 6000's seem to have rather unrealistic ideas of what they can get for them. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 22 21:19:51 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: Re: IBM's PGA Adapter (jpero@sympatico.ca) References: <20010423020705.SLPO7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <15075.37191.445234.919445@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 22, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Hi. Can anybody provide me with some info on the IBM PGA/PGC adapters for > > the IBM PC/XT systems? > > > > I heard that it is one of the first video adapters with on-board transform > > capabilities, and that it is very ahead of its time. Can anyone please > > elaborate? > > Also, where can I get some pictures, and is it still available for > > purchase? > > Half-half acceleration due to built in CPU and can compute arcs, > lines etc for cad work I think. > > But I know PGA is grossly unusual design and unrealistic cost kept it > from very common plus it requires non-standard PGA monitor to go with > it. Cost was about 5,000 I think. > > BTW, it is 3 boards package and monitor. Saw both monitor and card > set but not in action. If memory serves, the PGA had an 8085 processor on it. Interesting use of an otherwise general-purpose microprocessor. Indeed, an XT-class system with a PGA had a better processor on its video board than it did on its motherboard. -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Apr 22 21:36:36 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> Message-ID: >> "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" > >Psst. > >1. I'm in Canada. Hmmm, that isn't part of the united states yet, but I think it might be later on. >2. Mike Ford, that auction ended on *thursday night of 19th*, >friday was 20th. > >That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States >only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to >whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please >contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > >Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm >waiting for his last chance on Monday. > >Milt sells lot of bunch and he always keep interested buyers up and >up if he is busy or whatever. "CONTACT" not respond to email, many bulk sellers are completely automated so that you will NEVER get a personal response. Many ebay sellers like to chat, and will rattle off dozens of emails, but a few do this as a business for money and just don't have the time. BTW the purpose of requesting your phone number is mostly for UPS, so if they have a problem delivering the package they can call you. It seems like you are still considering posting a negative feedback as soon as Tuesday, and I strongly advise against it. International sales are a PITA, and many eBay vendors now won't sell to Canadians, just because of potential problems and possible negative feedback. From fernande at internet1.net Sun Apr 22 21:48:57 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter References: <20010423020705.SLPO7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <15075.37191.445234.919445@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3AE39819.1795CEA1@internet1.net> Introduced in 84 for the low low price of $4290 :-) I found this in Ugrading and Repairing PCs, by Mueller. I thought it used the 80186, but I don't see anything specifying what processor now. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dave McGuire wrote: > If memory serves, the PGA had an 8085 processor on it. Interesting > use of an otherwise general-purpose microprocessor. > > > Indeed, an XT-class system with a PGA had a better processor on its > video board than it did on its motherboard. > > > -Dave McGuire From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 22 21:49:58 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: L@@K! RARE -- 2 EBAY SELLERS CONVICTED and 1 on the run....Another nice ebay ("epay") story... References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422111304.02b6e960@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <008c01c0cba0$1621e5a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I give up to 30 days after close of auction before getting adversarial about things. This is allowing 7days for arrival of check and 7 days for cashing. If you are usingPayPal, etc. I would take at least 10 days off of the 30. Also, I allow 7 days for reciept of a complaint eMail before filing an eBay complaint. I have on dozens of occaisions recieved similiar courtesies, and on only two gotten truly rude treatment. For me: 95% Good sellers, 5% Honest Jerks, 0.25% Crooks John A. From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 19:59:50 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) In-Reply-To: <3AE32EDB.BB2501A5@southwind.net> Message-ID: <2314.513T2500T1195669optimus@canit.se> Joel Ewy skrev: >"Eric J. Korpela" wrote: >> > > This brings to mind the fact that (at least the first of) the >> > > Amiga patents should be expiring within the next two or three years. >> > > This should mean something to Amiga hobbyists, shouldn't it? I've >> > > seen people implementing 6502 cores in FPGAs these days. Surely the >> > > Amiga custom chips would be good candidates for similar treatment when >> > > Gateway no longer has the right to sue somebody to make them quit. >> > > (Gateway still owns the patents even though they no longer own the >> > > Amiga trademark. What they plan to do with them in the next couple >> > > years -- aside from keeping others from making good use of them -- is >> > > beyond me.) >> > >> > Aren't the designs, which are what really matter here, still copyrighted? >> >> Copyright doesn't preclude other designs which perform equivalent tasks. >> A reverse engineered version of a custom chip is perfectly legal under >> copyright law despite recent attempts by congress to make it illegal. >> >> Under patent law it would not be, if the chip is similar enough to fall >> under the specifics of the patent (as would surely be the case in this >> instance.) > That's my understanding as well. There are (or at least have been) at >least two Amiga clone motherboards developed in the post-Commodore era, but I >believe that those use the same custom chips that the actual Amiga hardware >used. As the supply of those chips necessarily dwindles, it would seem that >people could replicate their functionality in high density programmable logic >(FPGAs and whatnot) in order to make compatible designs, but for the patents. >Actually, I seem to remember hearing that some of the Amiga patents were >software patents -- can anybody confirm that? The BoXeR motherboard, which has been due for release "real soon now" for the last three years, has got an implementation of the AGA chipset in a kind of programmable chip called Altiflex or something like that. Didn't someone list some C= Amiga patents a short while back on the list? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Your hamster might, despite some encouraging first steps, never be able to fully grasp the concept of Logical Markup. -- The Not So Short Introduction to LaTex2e, "Disadvantages of LaTex" From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 20:03:30 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <20010422121930.E3209@spies.com> Message-ID: <832.513T1500T1234885optimus@canit.se> Andreas Meyer skrev: >The Boston Computer Society might have held the title, had they not folded >a few years ago. >The ACGNJ was founded in March of 1975, and continues to host a dozen >different SIG meetings per month at the Scotch Plains (NJ) Rescue Squad. >http://www.acgnj.org >These are the folks who brought us the SIG/M and PC-BLUE collections >and the Trenton Computer Festival (even though it's no longer in Trenton :) >http://www.tcf-nj.org/ There are a lot of academic computer societies which have been active since the sixties or seventies. Lysator (http://www.lysator.liu.se/) at Link?ping U has been active since the seventies, and have an interesting history page as well. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Schont die Sockel, wenn ihr die Denkm?ler st?rzt. Sie k?nnten noch gebraucht werden. --- Stanislaw Jerzy Lec From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 21:28:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <587.513T700T2084129optimus@canit.se> Paul Thompson skrev: >Accounting, auditing, and 'at' don't work well. Most everything else is >OK. I've been running 4.2a for years with no problems outside of those >areas. I found a lot of tapes with 2.8 and one with 5.3. I also noticed that some were masked "RISC" while some weren't. Would the non-RISC versions run on VAXes? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have support for the PMAGC-B's on pmax right? That is a PixelVision based card right? I see Bt 463, that chip looks bigger than the 21164! Just looking at it makes me want to write an Xserver! Chris Tribo, NetBSD/pmax From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 21:36:03 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <795.513T150T2163387optimus@canit.se> Russ Blakeman skrev: >You'll hate me for saying this but I got my 128D, printer, monitor, etc and >a ton of software in swap for a Sound Blaster 16 card. I like it way more >than the old 64's...and the thremal color printer is nice other than >tracking down sources for ribbons. I got my C128D in a trade for a pirate copy of the Amiga game "Superfrog" (great game, but was it really worth it?). =) At the recycling centre near my grandparents', I found another one, this time the kind with a carrying handle and parking space for the keyboard. Didn't cost more than a hundred SEK. I've also got two spare 128D keyboards, Swedish keymap. Will trade for other eight-bit things. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 22:32:40 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <007001c0cb62$bc9c3040$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <821.513T2000T2725341optimus@canit.se> ajp166 skrev: >From: Tony Duell >>AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no >>10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've >>never seen one that does). >Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never that slow. The >3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET. Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet. Ain't that so? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 22 22:37:28 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1331.513T1400T2774733optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> As we all know, Ethernet was only running at 3 Mbit in the early days. When >> was the move to 10 Mbit done and is 10Mb Ethernet backwards compatible? >AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no >10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've >never seen one that does). Oh, I mean as in being able to plug a 3Mb device into a 10Mb network. >> Also, were there any Ethernet controllers back in the old days, or what >> kind of interfacing did old Ethernet capable equipment such as the SUN 1 or >> DECNA use? >There were no single-chip ethernet controllers, if that's what you're >asking. The ethernet circuitry for the classic PERQ (which was generally >10Mbps, but early enough that single-chip controllers didn't really >exist) is a 2910 sequencer, some microcode PROMs, some 9403 FIFOs, and a >lot of TTL glue logic (and some comparator-type parts for the interface >to the AUI connector). It takes up about 1/3rd of the EIO board. Exactly, single-chip, or at least in the sense of chips built expressly for Ethernet. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Georgie beundrade stor?gt sin pappa som med v?ldsamma slag gick l?s p? det stora tr?det. Han badade i svett, och den muskul?sa kroppen bl?nkte i solskenet. Hon ?lskade honom. Lady Georgie, TMS 1983 From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 18:17:52 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: References: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010423031610.TPYW17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 19:36:36 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip > "CONTACT" not respond to email, many bulk sellers are completely automated > so that you will NEVER get a personal response. Many ebay sellers like to > chat, and will rattle off dozens of emails, but a few do this as a business > for money and just don't have the time. I see, then I can't help with that and be unhappy with this if this ever happens. Contact means to get in touch and talk to finish the deal and method of payment. Email or phone, I prefer email. > BTW the purpose of requesting your phone number is mostly for UPS, so if > they have a problem delivering the package they can call you. I commend that but some far away people wishes not to have phone given due to LD cost or something nasty but many are reasonable people. Realize that I always remind seller I pay by MO, not checks or credit cards. > It seems like you are still considering posting a negative feedback as soon > as Tuesday, and I strongly advise against it. International sales are a > PITA, and many eBay vendors now won't sell to Canadians, just because of > potential problems and possible negative feedback. Interational sales PITA? I see this way less PITA between Canada and USA border. Especially across the sea or south of that USA I can agree with that being some more PITA. BTW, what can I do about that to withdrawal from this deal gracefully if Mike Ford advises against negative feedback? Well, I give this time till Tuesday night but I'm not sure why you're against negative feedback. They there for that reason. Cheers, Wizard From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sun Apr 22 22:20:45 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Sparc 2, HP730's and Decstation 5000/'s ... In-Reply-To: <587.513T700T2084129optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 23, 2001 03:28:14 am" Message-ID: <20010423032046Z434869-24423+867@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > Paul Thompson skrev: > > >Accounting, auditing, and 'at' don't work well. Most everything else is > >OK. I've been running 4.2a for years with no problems outside of those > >areas. > > I found a lot of tapes with 2.8 and one with 5.3. I also noticed that some > were masked "RISC" while some weren't. Would the non-RISC versions run on > VAXes? > I believe they did. I can vaguely remember getting two sets of distributions. We had a university software agreement and basically got the whole set of CDs, but had to pay for the documentation. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 22:22:52 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: I normally respond to the buyer withing 12 hours, that allows for times when I'm on an onsite job or my alloted 4 hours for sleep. I always try to stay on top of the auctions but I've had sellers repsond to me as buyer as late as 5 days but they did have a good explanation (in the hospital or moving). I have had only one little "dork" (for lack of a better word) as a buyer post negative on me that he got junk when I actually sent him a better unit than was posted. I've heard he's done this to others too and we've all come to the conclusion that he's got junk around and buys good units cheap, then wants a refund on a phoney charge that it's not "as advertised" and he sends the crappy one he had before the auction back to the buyer. I didn't go for it as I openly post "sales final" on my auctions as I'm not a friggin' retail store. Even at that this "polbit" character posts negative but with over 155 excellent posts I don' think one will hurt, especially since it's already buried deep in the rest of the feedback. He posted "buyer beware" when it's actually "seller beware of buyer". All in a lifetime I guess. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of jpero@sympatico.ca > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 4:30 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:12:33 -0700 > > From: Jim Arnott > > Organization: WetWesties > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs > your advices > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Relax... Not everyone is on their system 24/7. I've done business > > MacVizion and they are a reputable seller. e-bay sellers typically take > > up to three BUSINESS days to respond. Also, the note they sent you > > appears to answer your question... > > > > "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US > Postal Service" > > Psst. > > 1. I'm in Canada. > > 2. Mike Ford, that auction ended on *thursday night of 19th*, > friday was 20th. > > That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm > waiting for his last chance on Monday. > > Milt sells lot of bunch and he always keep interested buyers up and > up if he is busy or whatever. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 22 22:42:17 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <795.513T150T2163387optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: Whatever a hundred SEK correlates to in USD. You did good on the first one though. One thing I like about the dual video is the monitor I got with it, a Magnavox, has both RGB and composite inputs that are switchable from the front. It also works well as a test monitor for camcorder and VCR/VCP repairs. I did have it attached to a vcr for a while and used the VCR as the tuner and watched TV in the shop without the aid of a separate television. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Iggy Drougge > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 12:00 AM > To: Russ Blakeman > Subject: RE: VIC-20 > > > Russ Blakeman skrev: > > >You'll hate me for saying this but I got my 128D, printer, > monitor, etc and > >a ton of software in swap for a Sound Blaster 16 card. I like it way more > >than the old 64's...and the thremal color printer is nice other than > >tracking down sources for ribbons. > > I got my C128D in a trade for a pirate copy of the Amiga game "Superfrog" > (great game, but was it really worth it?). =) > At the recycling centre near my grandparents', I found another > one, this time > the kind with a carrying handle and parking space for the keyboard. Didn't > cost more than a hundred SEK. > I've also got two spare 128D keyboards, Swedish keymap. Will > trade for other > eight-bit things. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. > --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere > From schoedel at kw.igs.net Sun Apr 22 22:47:50 2001 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: <15071.24463.514815.666000@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <00cb01c0c46a$c9634ec0$0100a8c0@dellhare> <5.0.2.1.0.20010416120914.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> <01041901275906.02541@bleem.cabrillosystems.com> <003a01c0c8e3$f4725980$0100a8c0@dellhare> <00b101c0c918$e285ee00$0200a8c0@marvin> <15071.24463.514815.666000@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >> I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older >> clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic >> and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > > DECUS? SHARE, started in 1955, still exists. -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From ernestls at home.com Sun Apr 22 23:09:03 2001 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Sellem Ismail the archaeologist? In-Reply-To: <3AE1F504.4519.488BF8@localhost> Message-ID: I just noticed a story about you and your hobby in the new Archaeology magazine. You're becoming more famous everyday. Ernest From wonko at entropy.tmok.com Sun Apr 22 23:38:38 2001 From: wonko at entropy.tmok.com (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Apr 22, 2001 4:33: 0 pm" Message-ID: <200104230438.AAA38349@entropy.tmok.com> R. D. Davis drunkenly mumbled... > > things that use a spark-gap; I wouldn't worry about any RFI from a > computer, even with the panels off, which is a perfectly reasonable > way to run one, as it makes troubleshooting easier. :-) the second you put the panels on, or tighten at least one screw, things have no option but to un-aviodably fail. it's life, it's how it works, i gave up a long time ago. plus, they are prettier with the sides off. :) -brian From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Apr 22 23:44:52 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive In-Reply-To: <3AE2120E.B4690FB@internet1.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422214017.02b49d50@208.226.86.10> At 07:04 PM 4/21/01 -0400, you wrote: >My 11 came with a 3 4-port serial cards. They are M8043 boards. I >can't see myself using that many serial ports. Does anybody have the >little blank steel plates to put in a BA23 chassis so I can remove the >plates that have the 4 db25 connectors? Yup, send me your snail mail address. >Also, I need the plate that fits into the space below the serial ports. >It looks to be slightly larger than a centronics 50 SCSI connector. Got that too :-) >Would anybody have the dip switch and jumper settings for a M8190-AE, >that's a KDJ11-B from a 73 or 83. My 11 was upgraded from a 53. Can't help there. >How about memory? ECC is better than parity, it actually fixes problems it detects. > One of my parity boards says "Mos RAM" What us that? Memory made out of integrated circuits (Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor) versus "CORE RAM" which would be memory made out of magnetic cores. >I am thinking that I would like to keep the chassis out of the tower. >Does anybody have a spare plastic bezel for a rackmount setup. I don't >have a rack, but it would take up less room if I keep the tower in >storage. I've got the bezel too but it won't help you unless you find someone to get you the latches that it attaches to (I do not have an extra of those). They have two heavy duty velcro circles on them. Also the BA23 in the rack sits in a "tray" that mounts to the rack. If you do decide to actually rack mount it you will need one of those too. >What to call this thing? It has the cpu board from an 11/83, but it >doesn't have the PMI memory of an 83. I would like to upgrade the >little square badge to reflect its current config. Franken-11. Something the field books never intended. :-) Note to Brian Roth - email to you from me bounces. --Chuck From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Apr 23 00:15:42 2001 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010422220733.00be6ef0@pacbell.net> At 09:58 PM 4/22/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi. Can anybody provide me with some info on the IBM PGA/PGC adapters for >the IBM PC/XT systems? > >I heard that it is one of the first video adapters with on-board transform >capabilities, and that it is very ahead of its time. Can anyone please >elaborate? BTW, the architect for PGA is named Curtis Priem; he later went on to do some 2D and 3D chip architecture for Sun, then went on to co-found (not confound) NVidia, and is CTO there. I guess the third time's the charm. BTW, the PGA was designed while he was at Vermont Microsystems, Inc. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 22 20:34:55 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010422220733.00be6ef0@pacbell.net> References: Message-ID: <20010423053310.TGCI28050.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:15:42 -0700 > From: Jim Battle > Subject: Re: IBM's PGA Adapter > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > At 09:58 PM 4/22/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi. Can anybody provide me with some info on the IBM PGA/PGC adapters for > >the IBM PC/XT systems? > > > >I heard that it is one of the first video adapters with on-board transform > >capabilities, and that it is very ahead of its time. Can anyone please > >elaborate? > > BTW, the architect for PGA is named Curtis Priem; he later went on to do > some 2D and 3D chip architecture for Sun, then went on to co-found (not > confound) NVidia, and is CTO there. Cool!! Interesting tidbit, interestingly I own part of Curtis Priem's design hardware. (GeForce2 MX) :-) I hope Nvidia don't go way of cash-greedy so too far. :-( > > I guess the third time's the charm. Seems that way. Cheers, Wizard From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 23 02:22:49 2001 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Sellam Ismail the archaeologist? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, you wrote: > I just noticed a story about you and your hobby in the new Archaeology > magazine. You're becoming more famous everyday. Yes, I look forward to reading it myself :) This was written by Christine Finn who has also written a book on the Silicon Valley from an archaeologist's perspective. She spoke at VCF 4.0 and will probably be at VCF 5.0 doing a book signing if it releases on time. The book is a really great read and focuses on the Silicon Valley beyond just talking about it's amazing high tech culture. Look for it this fall, called Artefacts: The Material Culture of the Silicon Valley. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com Mon Apr 23 03:45:28 2001 From: Alan.Pearson at cramersystems.com (Alan Pearson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #577 Message-ID: > Date: 21 Apr 2001 3:1:14 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Odd old Xerox equipment > > computer equipment. Today, I happened to notice a very sexy > Xerox machine. It was a black, rather fat tower with a very > black front with relief stripes. On top of it sat an equally > black diskdrive, its front as black the computer. I > think it would fold down to reveal the actual slot. The back > featured a number > of very large blanking plates for graphics (I think a D15) and AUI. > What kind of system was it, when was it released, what OS did > it run? Can I marry it? What a find!! Snap it up right now! Sounds like an 1186 to me, since the company is an AI company. In their attempt to remarket the Star Xerox redesigned the 8010 hardware and came up with the "Dove", which was marketed as the 6085 "Documenter" or the 1186 "Artificial Intelligence Workstation". I think the only difference in the hardware was the 1186's processor board had a floating-point unit - other than that they were identical machines differing only in the microcode and software. The 6085 ran the "ViewPoint" system, originally know as "Star" and later renamed "GlobalView" :-) You don't have any access to the guts of the machine from ViewPoint, it's a closed system that's specifically designed to write documents, send email, all that boring "office" stuff - there was no development environment that you could access via ViewPoint, so it's not that much fun to play about with. When you've done one document you've done them all :-) The development environment was usually installed in a seperate volume on the machine, and went by the name of "Tajo" or "XDE" - this was another window-based environment with all the good stuff like a Mesa compiler, debugger, file browser etc (guess which environment I used the most!). If you knew the magic runes you could set up the debugger/development volume to "debug" the VP volume and be able to swap between the two, but it could be a bit of a pain because a clean VP boot would take around 15 minutes :-/ Xerox attempted to market VP standalone after it was clear they'd missed the boat as far as mass adoption of Star (another 914 it certainly wasn't) - they had a version running on Suns, my memory's a bit hazy now, I think the project was called "Salient" and involved the use of the "Portable Common Runtime" - basically a Mesa virtual machine(?). They also had a version for Windows - I think it originally ran on a separate Mesa processor card and then later they implemented a complete software Mesa VM to run VP/GV on. Unfortunately they still didn't get many sales, and the rest is (literally) history. Star RIP. [Incidentally I still use it on my laptop, Star still gives Word & co a good run for their money! There's at least one corner of England that is "forever Xerox" :-)] The 1186 was much more straightforward - the processor was microcoded for InterLISP-D, which took up the whole machine. Ran like a dog, but was very nice to play around in (assuming you could handle all the brackets) because of the GUI. Personally I liked Mesa way better. A bit of Xerox folklore for you :-) Aparrently the 6085/1186 case was designed to look like the Xerox Tower in Rochester, NY... can't see much resemblence myself, other than it's tall and thin(ish). What do I know though, I'm just a dumb programmer not an "artist" :-) Cheers Al. PS always on the lookout for old Xerox stuff myself - unfortunately I'm stuck in Bath (UK) and they're are hard to come by as Bill Gates fans on this list :-) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 23 03:35:08 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423031610.TPYW17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: >I commend that but some far away people wishes not to have phone >given due to LD cost or something nasty but many are reasonable >people. Realize that I always remind seller I pay by MO, not checks >or credit cards. > >> It seems like you are still considering posting a negative feedback as soon >> as Tuesday, and I strongly advise against it. International sales are a >> PITA, and many eBay vendors now won't sell to Canadians, just because of >> potential problems and possible negative feedback. > >Interational sales PITA? I see this way less PITA between Canada >and USA border. Especially across the sea or south of that USA I >can agree with that being some more PITA. > >BTW, what can I do about that to withdrawal from this deal >gracefully if Mike Ford advises against negative feedback? Well, I >give this time till Tuesday night but I'm not sure why you're against >negative feedback. They there for that reason. When you bid you enter a contract with the terms laid out in the eBay regulations and the requirements of the seller (if they bother, but it doesn't have to be listed as long as they make it clear they have terms and link to them within the auction ad). As many seller say in there ads, if you don't agree to the terms, don't bid. Once you bid, unless you retract your bid both immediately and a reasonable time prior to the auction closing, you have committed yourself to complete the transaction under the terms set out. So what can you do? Back out, don't pay. Most likely you will get a nasty negative, but maybe and just as likely you will get booted off ebay. Big deal, you only have 4 feedback, so starting a new account isn't a great punishment. Back out, but be nice about it and offer to pay the relisting costs etc. of the seller. So what should you do? Just respond to the first email with the information requested like the last 2600 happy customers did, and sit back and wait for the gears of commerce to turn. Why shouldn't you leave negative feedback? The seller has done NOTHING wrong, his are normal ebay business practices. Tit for tat, they could leave a negative for you as a uncooperative buyer who leaves negative feedback 5 days after the auction closes. Nobody will even notice the negative you would be leaving them, and if well written anybody sane reading the negative they could live for you would just cancel your bids and bar you from their auctions. Why are international sales a PITA? Half a dozen extra things can go wrong, many related to random chance, ie after 100 transactions 10 packages will be lost, 5 people will order the wrong item, payment will come in a form that can't be cashed without great expense, 2 people die before the deal is completed, etc. etc. Not only does it take more time, but it occupies my thoughts until its done. Want to know how many airmail money orders from Canada have taken more than 2 weeks to reach me in California? (about 15%) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 23 03:49:02 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: <20010423053310.TGCI28050.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010422220733.00be6ef0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: >Cool!! Interesting tidbit, interestingly I own part of Curtis >Priem's design hardware. (GeForce2 MX) :-) I hope Nvidia don't go >way of cash-greedy so too far. :-( Price a GeForce3, how could they go farther? From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 23 04:29:08 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Amiga Patents (Was Longest running user group in history?) In-Reply-To: <2314.513T2500T1195669optimus@canit.se> References: <2314.513T2500T1195669optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >Didn't someone list some C= Amiga patents a short while back on the list? Here's what is supposed to be the full text of the Commodore/Amiga patent# 4,777,621 dated Oct. 11, 1988 for a 'VIDEO GAME AND PERSONAL COMPUTER' filed on Jul. 19, 1985 by Commodore-Amiga Inc. with the inventors listed as Jay G. Miner, Joseph C. Decuir, and Ronald H. Nicholson: http://www.geocities.com/~amooga/patent.html I believe this is the same text that is/was up on Aminet. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From daverogers90 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 23 04:58:54 2001 From: daverogers90 at hotmail.com (dave rogers) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 Message-ID: Hi my name is Dave i live in NewZealand i have been givern a PPC640 wich goes but it wants a start up disc if u have one could you please send a copy of it to me on brav@zfree.co.nz i would love to crank it up. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/420aef6b/attachment.html From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Apr 23 04:35:33 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: New stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01042305385405.01834@fatty> Zane, I usually pay anywhere from 4 to 10 cents a pound for the large stuff. He thinks a University is going to come along and scoop it up for $$$$. I did have one a few years back I received free from the Kentucky DOT. Never had it running though. Had to lose it when I relocated to NY. Brian. On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, you wrote: > >Just came back with a van full of goodies. > > > >11/750 with box's full of docs and prints. > >Early versions of VMS software and New docs in binders. > > Way cool! I'd love a setup like that, just don't have room. > > >I also found a VAX 6000 but I beleive the owner has unrealistic > >ideas of what he can get for it. > > Most people that are trying to get rid of VAX 6000's seem to have rather > unrealistic ideas of what they can get for them. > > Zane > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From kees.stravers at iae.nl Mon Apr 23 06:29:48 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive Message-ID: <20010423112948.7A86220F3F@mail.iae.nl> >Would anybody have the dip switch and jumper settings for a M8190-AE, >that's a KDJ11-B from a 73 or 83. My 11 was upgraded from a 53. All I know is the console baud rate settings on the one dip switch at the front of the 11/83 cpu board. Switches 6-8 control the baud rate selected. All off lets the remote panel select work. 6 7 8 - - - 300 baud / remote switch select 1 1 1 38.4K " 1 1 - 19.2K " 1 - 1 9600 " 1 - - 4800 " - 1 1 2400 " - 1 - 1200 " - - 1 600 " where "1" is down/on and "-" is up/off. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) From jrice at texoma.net Mon Apr 23 06:54:12 2001 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3AE417E4.2B59899B@texoma.net> I've bought from this outfit before. They run a retail business in addition to selling on ebay and with me thay also took a couple of days to answer. The merchandise was exactly as listed, shipping was prompt after payment was made. Good people to deal with, IMHO. James Mike Ford wrote: > > >I commend that but some far away people wishes not to have phone > >given due to LD cost or something nasty but many are reasonable > >people. Realize that I always remind seller I pay by MO, not checks > >or credit cards. > > > >> It seems like you are still considering posting a negative feedback as soon > >> as Tuesday, and I strongly advise against it. International sales are a > >> PITA, and many eBay vendors now won't sell to Canadians, just because of > >> potential problems and possible negative feedback. > > > >Interational sales PITA? I see this way less PITA between Canada > >and USA border. Especially across the sea or south of that USA I > >can agree with that being some more PITA. > > > >BTW, what can I do about that to withdrawal from this deal > >gracefully if Mike Ford advises against negative feedback? Well, I > >give this time till Tuesday night but I'm not sure why you're against > >negative feedback. They there for that reason. > > When you bid you enter a contract with the terms laid out in the eBay > regulations and the requirements of the seller (if they bother, but it > doesn't have to be listed as long as they make it clear they have terms and > link to them within the auction ad). As many seller say in there ads, if > you don't agree to the terms, don't bid. Once you bid, unless you retract > your bid both immediately and a reasonable time prior to the auction > closing, you have committed yourself to complete the transaction under the > terms set out. > > So what can you do? > > Back out, don't pay. Most likely you will get a nasty negative, but maybe > and just as likely you will get booted off ebay. Big deal, you only have 4 > feedback, so starting a new account isn't a great punishment. > Back out, but be nice about it and offer to pay the relisting costs etc. of > the seller. > > So what should you do? > > Just respond to the first email with the information requested like the > last 2600 happy customers did, and sit back and wait for the gears of > commerce to turn. > > Why shouldn't you leave negative feedback? > > The seller has done NOTHING wrong, his are normal ebay business practices. > > Tit for tat, they could leave a negative for you as a uncooperative buyer > who leaves negative feedback 5 days after the auction closes. Nobody will > even notice the negative you would be leaving them, and if well written > anybody sane reading the negative they could live for you would just cancel > your bids and bar you from their auctions. > > Why are international sales a PITA? > > Half a dozen extra things can go wrong, many related to random chance, ie > after 100 transactions 10 packages will be lost, 5 people will order the > wrong item, payment will come in a form that can't be cashed without great > expense, 2 people die before the deal is completed, etc. etc. Not only does > it take more time, but it occupies my thoughts until its done. Want to know > how many airmail money orders from Canada have taken more than 2 weeks to > reach me in California? (about 15%) -- ICQ 2286850 Home Page http://home.texoma.net/~jrice Classic Comp Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/classiccomp.html Robotics Page at http://home.texoma.net/~jrice/hobbies.html All pages under construction! From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 23 03:04:32 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: References: <20010423031610.TPYW17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010423120247.UVLW7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:35:08 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Snip! > Half a dozen extra things can go wrong, many related to random chance, ie > after 100 transactions 10 packages will be lost, 5 people will order the > wrong item, payment will come in a form that can't be cashed without great > expense, 2 people die before the deal is completed, etc. etc. Not only does > it take more time, but it occupies my thoughts until its done. Want to know > how many airmail money orders from Canada have taken more than 2 weeks to > reach me in California? (about 15%) Wow, pretty bad. So far I have sent payments and/or packages all via regular mail or USPS ground from Canada and most of them made it about 1 week and half or less. Yes, even all the way to California. About 15 of that anywhere in USA and Canada in last 5 years. No problems. Most of this delays is the senders' error to do this mailing correctly. Only once, my friend made a mistake on declaration forms and I had to straighten it out w/ customs because that didn't deserves the taxes applied. Some of it get sent back after I work on it for nothing and other things are given to me. Resolved it within business week and a mild scolding to my friend. :-) These shippers like UPS or like does give me problems than regular mail. Believe me, I hate to pay $20 border charge on package due to FedExplode/UPS crusher or like, or sellers who insists on shipping 2 day even I say NO! That drives up cost on a already worthless used items or very low value used items I buy. Also this increases chances of being opened and nosed around inside especially these I listed, I think someone damaged at least one item. I don't mind the medium cost or quick shipment w/ insurance for new items. Cheers, Wizard From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 23 07:29:20 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: New stuff References: <01042305385405.01834@fatty> Message-ID: <3AE42020.CAAA42B4@greenbelt.com> The sad thing is that no one will pay him the big bucks and push will come to shove and he'll probably scrap the thing. Nothing worse that seeing "big iron" go to a scrap yard, IMO. Eric Brian Roth wrote: > Zane, > > I usually pay anywhere from 4 to 10 cents a pound for the > large stuff. He thinks a University is going to come along and > scoop it up for $$$$. I did have one a few years back I received > free from the Kentucky DOT. Never had it running though. Had to > lose it when I relocated to NY. > > Brian. > > On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, you wrote: > > >Just came back with a van full of goodies. > > > > > >11/750 with box's full of docs and prints. > > >Early versions of VMS software and New docs in binders. > > > > Way cool! I'd love a setup like that, just don't have room. > > > > >I also found a VAX 6000 but I beleive the owner has unrealistic > > >ideas of what he can get for it. > > > > Most people that are trying to get rid of VAX 6000's seem to have rather > > unrealistic ideas of what they can get for them. > > > > Zane > > -- > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > -- > > Brian Roth - System Administrator > www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository > > Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Apr 23 07:52:47 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Message-ID: > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > things? I have an 8K cartridge, and I believe also a 16K cartridge gathering dust on my shelves. Email me your address, and I'll ship them off to you ... No guarantees that they work, but they're free :-) Also, try www.cmdweb.com. Prices are high, but they do have a lot of otherwise unavailable stuff for VICs, C-64s, and C-128s. > > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? > Just judging on price alone, I'd say yes, but as other have suggested, only you can decide that.... I have paid probably more than others would pay for a lot of things in my life, but at the time I considered them good deals... From menadeau at mediaone.net Mon Apr 23 08:02:39 2001 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: World's first notebook with touc References: <20010420215701.53f61cd1.18933@nifty.ne.jp><065301c0c9a2$f8e33a60$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> <20010423100546.53f61cd1.25954@nifty.ne.jp> Message-ID: <00af01c0cbf5$b021b900$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I saw it at a trade show--probably Comdex, but maybe CEBIT. It might have been a prototype that may or may not have been produced commercially. --Mike Michael Nadeau Editorial Services 603-893-2379 ----- Original Message ----- From: "$B>.Jk!!M[0l" <"B To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 9:05 PM Subject: RE:Re: World's first notebook with touc > Thank you for your information! > > Wow, Gavilan was so advanced at that era! > > I also tried to find any info on the Web about the "Marble Olivetti" in your m > essage, but so far no success. > > Yoichi > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > The Gavilan did indeed have a touchpad above the keyboard in 1983. I happen > > to have a presskit and photos. Its position--at a 90-degree angle to the > > keyboard--would have made it awkward to use. > > > > I recall seeing an odd Olivetti notebook with a touchpad in the late 80's, > > which I think would pre-date the Powerbook. The Olivetti also had a faux > > Italian marble finish. > > > > --Mike > > > > Michael Nadeau > > Editorial Services > > 603-893-2379 > From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Apr 23 08:20:49 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: VIC-20 Message-ID: In a message dated 4/23/01 9:00:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > > I have an 8K cartridge, and I believe also a 16K cartridge gathering dust on > my shelves. Email me your address, and I'll ship them off to you ... No > guarantees that they work, but they're free :-) > I would love to have one of these myself.. Let me know if there are any "extras" floating around! -Linc Fessenden The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. From at258 at osfn.org Mon Apr 23 08:34:32 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: Wiz, what time thursday? After close of business? If so, then 3 business days ends Tuesday evening. On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:12:33 -0700 > > From: Jim Arnott > > Organization: WetWesties > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Relax... Not everyone is on their system 24/7. I've done business > > MacVizion and they are a reputable seller. e-bay sellers typically take > > up to three BUSINESS days to respond. Also, the note they sent you > > appears to answer your question... > > > > "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" > > Psst. > > 1. I'm in Canada. > > 2. Mike Ford, that auction ended on *thursday night of 19th*, > friday was 20th. > > That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm > waiting for his last chance on Monday. > > Milt sells lot of bunch and he always keep interested buyers up and > up if he is busy or whatever. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Apr 23 07:33:15 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010423083315.0179421c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 09:29 PM 4/22/01 +0000, you wrote: >Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm >waiting for his last chance on Monday. Giving up on such a short notice is actually against eBay "recommended practice". Some snippets: 1) "Sellers and buyers should contact each other within three business days". So you should wait until at least Wednesday before resorting to the next remediation step suggested by eBay, "2) Before posting negative feedback, buyers should try to contact the seller via phone if possible" . If you give up this soon, the seller will have every right to claim that he/she acted within reasonable expectations. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 23 08:25:51 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: VIM16 16 MB for the Vic20 In-Reply-To: References: < Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423082155.00b4ab00@pc> At 03:46 PM 4/22/01 -0700, Mike Ford wrote: >I'm not much into Commode ore (cracks me up, sorry), I always liked "Commode d'or" even if it wasn't "toilette d'or". - John From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Mon Apr 23 07:21:45 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010422231223.QUDL7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010423082145.01762758@obregon.multi.net.co> At 07:14 PM 4/22/01 +0000, you wrote: >The problem is seller isn't responding to any of my emails except for >one email from them without any replies to my emails. -snip >Wizard I have done business with these people and they were OK. They were somewhat slow to answer emails, but were readily reachable on the phone during business hours. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From at258 at osfn.org Mon Apr 23 08:46:48 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is that the IBM users' group? Could they be the oldest? On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Kevin Schoedel wrote: > >> I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older > >> clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic > >> and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > > > > DECUS? > > SHARE, started in 1955, still exists. > > -- > Kevin Schoedel > schoedel@kw.igs.net > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 23 08:52:48 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <20010423012805.SUHE17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423082723.01e00a40@pc> At 09:29 PM 4/22/01 +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States >only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to >whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please >contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. It's kinda funny that you think eBay buyers read the auction descriptions and fine print. I can't tell you how many times I've said "USA only" and had international bidders and winners, or how many buyers want to back out because of regret combined with an inability to read the description, or who can't read the e-mail I send them that says "US Mail or UPS, your choice" or "Shipping is $8" - rapidly followed by their e-mail that says "How much is shipping?"... and then the "USA only" international buyer wants you to falsify the export document so they don't have to pay customs fees. You can get really screwed by international shipments on inexpensive items - without lots of insurance and receipts, who's to say the item didn't arrive? Ten+ years ago, I seem to remember the Amiga market being scammed by Italian buyers who'd claim over and over that their product never arrived. I was also bit by the recent dramatic change in the US Post Office's rate for international shipments. Once upon a time, you could send an item of a pound or so almost anywhere in the world under the "small packet" rate. This is now gone, and rates for sending abroad seem to have doubled or tripled. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 23 09:00:11 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: (3) Northstars + DiscJockey to rescue in Bothell, WA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423085814.01e40a90@pc> I'm trying to reduce the size and increase the sensibility of my collection, so I'll pass this one to the list... please contact him, not me. - John >From: "Wayne Gilmore" >To: "John Foust" >Subject: Re: Old Computers >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:11:57 -0700 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 > >Hi again John, >I am located in Bothell, Washington. A few miles north of Seattle. >Wayne > >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Foust >To: Wayne Gilmore >Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:35 PM >Subject: Re: Old Computers > > >> At 12:16 PM 4/21/01 -0700, you wrote: >> >Hi. I have 3 northstar computers that I bought new and used for >business and as a personal pc before pc's.... yuk.. Also have a Morrow >Discjokey system that worked with it. I'd like to donate all... Manuals and >anything else that I have had to someone that wants them. Help >> >Thanks >> >Wayne Gilmore >> >> Wonderful! Where are you located? >> >> - John >> From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 23 09:15:44 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: (3) Northstars + DiscJockey to rescue in Bothell, WA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423091542.01fa9d70@pc> I'm trying to reduce the size and increase the sensibility of my collection, so I'll pass this one to the list... please contact him, not me. - John >From: "Wayne Gilmore" >To: "John Foust" >Subject: Re: Old Computers >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:11:57 -0700 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 > >Hi again John, >I am located in Bothell, Washington. A few miles north of Seattle. >Wayne > >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Foust >To: Wayne Gilmore >Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:35 PM >Subject: Re: Old Computers > > >> At 12:16 PM 4/21/01 -0700, you wrote: >> >Hi. I have 3 northstar computers that I bought new and used for >business and as a personal pc before pc's.... yuk.. Also have a Morrow >Discjokey system that worked with it. I'd like to donate all... Manuals and >anything else that I have had to someone that wants them. Help >> >Thanks >> >Wayne Gilmore >> >> Wonderful! Where are you located? >> >> - John >> From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 23 09:59:55 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <821.513T2000T2725341optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet. > Ain't that so? Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. It is a token-passing protocol, with either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected together with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. More machines than that and you have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted pair interconnection scheme. I don't recall the bitrate, but it's much less than 10Mb. I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 09:57:32 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423082723.01e00a40@pc> Message-ID: I think any of us that have sold a dozen or more items on ebay, yahoo, etc are all sitting back smiling as we've done the same. I post (very clearly) that shipping is to "USA 48 states only" or "USA and APO/FPO only" or USA, APO/FPO and Canada only" etc to have a person in New Zealand bid on the item and win it. I don't much care if they bid and get outbid as the total comes up a few bucks. Really you shouldn't have to do all of this as with ebay's fees and separate international auction sites they should have already had things in place that if their location doesn't match the assigned shipping/selling locations that it prevents them from bidding, or at least warns them that they are about to bid on an item that will only be shipped to locations other than theirs. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:53 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > At 09:29 PM 4/22/01 +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > >That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > >only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > >whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > >contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > It's kinda funny that you think eBay buyers read the > auction descriptions and fine print. > > I can't tell you how many times I've said "USA only" and had > international bidders and winners, or how many buyers want to > back out because of regret combined with an inability to read > the description, or who can't read the e-mail I send them that > says "US Mail or UPS, your choice" or "Shipping is $8" - rapidly > followed by their e-mail that says "How much is shipping?"... > and then the "USA only" international buyer wants you to falsify the > export document so they don't have to pay customs fees. > > You can get really screwed by international shipments > on inexpensive items - without lots of insurance and receipts, > who's to say the item didn't arrive? Ten+ years ago, I seem > to remember the Amiga market being scammed by Italian buyers > who'd claim over and over that their product never arrived. > > I was also bit by the recent dramatic change in the US Post Office's > rate for international shipments. Once upon a time, you could > send an item of a pound or so almost anywhere in the world > under the "small packet" rate. This is now gone, and rates > for sending abroad seem to have doubled or tripled. > > - John > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 23 10:27:48 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer Message-ID: Anyone have one of these they could let go? Peace... Sridhar From elecdata at kcinter.net Mon Apr 23 10:28:21 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:37 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3AE44A14.6F889627@kcinter.net> Howdy, I sold on Ebay and several other sites internationally and have had close to 1000 transactions, be patient, International sales are not always easy. There could be a number of reasons for the seller not being as prompt as he/she could. Give it another week then use safe harbor to run interference for you. I hope that this helps Bill Claussen elecdata1 Mike Ford wrote: > >> "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" > > > >Psst. > > > >1. I'm in Canada. > > Hmmm, that isn't part of the united states yet, but I think it might be > later on. > > >2. Mike Ford, that auction ended on *thursday night of 19th*, > >friday was 20th. > > > >That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > >only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > >whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > >contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > > >Only that, seller isn't responding in reasonably manner so I'm > >waiting for his last chance on Monday. > > > >Milt sells lot of bunch and he always keep interested buyers up and > >up if he is busy or whatever. > > "CONTACT" not respond to email, many bulk sellers are completely automated > so that you will NEVER get a personal response. Many ebay sellers like to > chat, and will rattle off dozens of emails, but a few do this as a business > for money and just don't have the time. > > BTW the purpose of requesting your phone number is mostly for UPS, so if > they have a problem delivering the package they can call you. > > It seems like you are still considering posting a negative feedback as soon > as Tuesday, and I strongly advise against it. International sales are a > PITA, and many eBay vendors now won't sell to Canadians, just because of > potential problems and possible negative feedback. From ip500 at home.com Mon Apr 23 10:37:08 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: Message-ID: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> What's the problem with International shipping???? The World's a big place and MANY eBay buyers are not US based. I ALWAYS put "Will Ship Internationaly" in my auction copy and have had several hundred successful International transactions. USPS up to 20 kilos is usually pretty reasonable. "Small Packet" may be gone but "Letter post" has replaced it. Global Priority is also good for small items and is only $9 for up to 2 pounds. Big stuff can go DHL, Emery Worldwide, FedEx or any number of freight consolidators ... It's really no big deal! As long as a foreign bidder is willing to pay the shipping ... What's the Problem??? Craig Russ Blakeman wrote: > > I think any of us that have sold a dozen or more items on ebay, yahoo, etc > are all sitting back smiling as we've done the same. I post (very clearly) > that shipping is to "USA 48 states only" or "USA and APO/FPO only" or USA, > APO/FPO and Canada only" etc to have a person in New Zealand bid on the item > and win it. I don't much care if they bid and get outbid as the total comes > up a few bucks. Really you shouldn't have to do all of this as with ebay's > fees and separate international auction sites they should have already had > things in place that if their location doesn't match the assigned > shipping/selling locations that it prevents them from bidding, or at least > warns them that they are about to bid on an item that will only be shipped > to locations other than theirs. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:53 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > > > At 09:29 PM 4/22/01 +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > >That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > > >only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > > >whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > > >contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > > > It's kinda funny that you think eBay buyers read the > > auction descriptions and fine print. > > > > I can't tell you how many times I've said "USA only" and had > > international bidders and winners, or how many buyers want to > > back out because of regret combined with an inability to read > > the description, or who can't read the e-mail I send them that > > says "US Mail or UPS, your choice" or "Shipping is $8" - rapidly > > followed by their e-mail that says "How much is shipping?"... > > and then the "USA only" international buyer wants you to falsify the > > export document so they don't have to pay customs fees. > > > > You can get really screwed by international shipments > > on inexpensive items - without lots of insurance and receipts, > > who's to say the item didn't arrive? Ten+ years ago, I seem > > to remember the Amiga market being scammed by Italian buyers > > who'd claim over and over that their product never arrived. > > > > I was also bit by the recent dramatic change in the US Post Office's > > rate for international shipments. Once upon a time, you could > > send an item of a pound or so almost anywhere in the world > > under the "small packet" rate. This is now gone, and rates > > for sending abroad seem to have doubled or tripled. > > > > - John > > From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Mon Apr 23 11:09:38 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet References: <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6A85AC3B.51D2C109.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Ethan, Would you be willing to part with the ARCnet card for the Amiga 500? Bob Mason classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > > > --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet. > > Ain't that so? > > Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. ?It is a token-passing protocol, > with either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected > together with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. ?More machines than > that and you have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted > pair interconnection scheme. > > I don't recall the bitrate, but it's much less than 10Mb. > > I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. ?It was popular > for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX > support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Apr 23 11:47:07 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Amstrad PPC640 In-Reply-To: from "dave rogers" at Apr 23, 2001 09:58:54 PM Message-ID: <200104231647.KAA09206@calico.litterbox.com> If this is the ppc640 laptop-oid, put any dos boot disk in it, it's an XT class pc. > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. FYI sending mimed messages to a mailing list is generally considered impolite. There's a setting in Outlook/Outlook express to send plain text. That's what you want. > > Hi my name > is Dave i live in NewZealand i have been givern a PPC640 wich goes but = > it wants a start up disc if u have one could you please send a copy of = > it to me on brav@zfree.co.nz i would love to crank it up. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 23 11:47:54 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Available In-Reply-To: <6A85AC3B.51D2C109.CF1A260E@netscape.net> Message-ID: <01Apr23.125706edt.119042@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> I currently have a TRS-80 Model 2000 available. It is a dual-floppy model with 512k RAM and keyboard. I can also provide the OS disk for it. For those not familiar with this machine, it is powered by an 80186 and has dual 720k DSQD 5-1/4" floppy drives. When equipped with it's hi-res graphics board, it will do 640 x 400 in either mono or 8 colors. This machine is fully functional. Email with offers if interested. Jeff From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Apr 23 11:54:14 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: What's a Mag Card II? Message-ID: The microbiology lab where I worked kept a different card with each type of pathology report on them. The operator would enter the sample information into a "canned" document, and then could append any additional comments. These machines were real popular in the early 1970's for thesis typing and routine reports. You could put a chapter or a section on an individual card. Our secretary in graduate school had one and kept all the routine documents on individual cards. You wanted to requisition something she put in the requisition mag card, filled in the blanks and printed out the requisition. The unit had a IBM Selectric style printer as an output device. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From elvey at hal.com Mon Apr 23 12:00:27 2001 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: BCD accuracy (was: HP 85/Rocky Mountain BASIC replacement) In-Reply-To: <002b01c0ca90$25bc9070$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200104231700.f3NH0Rf25441@civic.hal.com> "ajp166" wrote: > come to mind. This led to things like NS* basic and HP using BCD to > avoid > the SQRT(16)=3.99999! Hi When I was in school we proved that 0.99999... was equal to 1.00000... So, the number 3.99999 is enough equal to 4.00000 that I would not consider it a problem. The number 0.00001 is within a reasonable range of error for the size numbers being displayed. The first thing to realize is that all rounding and truncation are ERRORS! Still, if we'd been using a binary system all along, the banks would insist that we use binary and not BCD in our calculations. The reason banks like BCD is that it can specify the rules for rounding that will work the same on every computer. It is interesting that even how we normally do rounding can cause serious problems ( decimal or binary ). The method of rounding towards zero can cause all kinds of problems in control systems ( I've seen this one in action ). Dwight From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 23 12:01:27 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: <007701c0cb64$d61f7d90$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20010423170127.35287.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- ajp166 wrote: > Worst offender awards: > > Many of the early all plastic cased (no internal conductive spray > coat) with no internal shielding systems. Because of all the stuff I plugged into my A1000, the internal cover would no longer fit. The case is unsprayed plastic. When we got a new TV set and tried it out downstairs, I could see a ghostly echo of the Workbench screen on channel 3. I could almost read the text. Sort of an "anti-Tempest" configuration. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 23 12:09:50 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VIC-20 References: Message-ID: <002f01c0cc18$35dc8620$88f8fea9@98box> Hi, My address is: Lanny Cox PO Box 495 Hr.Breton, NF AOH 1PO CANADA ----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Beaudry To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: RE: VIC-20 > > > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > > things? > > I have an 8K cartridge, and I believe also a 16K cartridge gathering dust on > my shelves. Email me your address, and I'll ship them off to you ... No > guarantees that they work, but they're free :-) > > Also, try www.cmdweb.com. Prices are high, but they do have a lot of > otherwise unavailable stuff for VICs, C-64s, and C-128s. > > > > > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? > > > > Just judging on price alone, I'd say yes, but as other have suggested, only > you can decide that.... I have paid probably more than others would pay for > a lot of things in my life, but at the time I considered them good deals... > > From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Apr 23 12:45:21 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply Message-ID: <20010423174521.69100.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, The PS in my IBM Portable seems to be dead. I would appreciate it if someone could send me a new PS! Thanks! Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Apr 23 13:11:03 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104150142.SAA07499@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Apr 14, 1 06:42:34 pm" Message-ID: <200104231811.LAA12278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, not the > > libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this > > Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include files. > > (which means the included C compiler doesn't work right either, sigh). lynx > > would also be wonderful if you have it :-) > > I've got them all for 4.1.3 (if no one beats me to it.) Well, as it turns out, there are two binaries I could really use -- gcc (although I guess I'd need a precompiled package) and gmake. I managed to get the include files together for cc but gcc bombs with a bus error during the build process (egcs 2.95.2). Think 4.1.3 binaries would work okay on 4.1.1.? (This is actually Solbourne OS/MP 4.1A.1.) I appreciate any suggestions. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You're never too old to become younger. -- Mae West ------------------------ From celt at chisp.net Mon Apr 23 13:14:37 2001 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VIC-20 References: Message-ID: <3AE4710D.7010800@chisp.net> > > Also, try www.cmdweb.com. Prices are high, but they do have a lot of > otherwise unavailable stuff for VICs, C-64s, and C-128s. > > FWIW, CMD recently (April 5) sold off most of their remaining Commodore inventory to a company called Centsible Software (http://www.centsible.com). More details are available here: http://www.cmdweb.com/cbm/index.htm Mike From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 13:50:12 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives Message-ID: <200104231850.f3NIoCJ22597@narnia.int.dittman.net> I recently acquired some old DEC equipment that that two RRD40 drives with SCSI adapters. I quickly replaced them with some real SCSI CDROM drives. Now, I enjoy classic equipment and like to see it preserved, but I draw the line on the RRD40 drives. They deserve to die. However, there may be some people that may actually want these oddball drives and SCSI adapters, so if you want them, they are yours. All I ask is that you pay for shipping, and I really only want to ship these in the US. There are no caddies available, and if you aren't familiar with the RRD40 drives they don't use the standard caddies. Also, one of the drives has a CD in it, and when I booted the unit before removing the drives the CD was labeled as an OpenVMS V7.1 doc disk. However, I don't know if that is accurate, since I didn't bother taking a look at the contents. I also don't know if the CD or drive will survive shipping with the CD in place. Also, the SCSI adapters are only for the RRD40 drives and I've removed the three ICs that are useful to me from each board. So, if you want them let me know by Friday, or I'll just trash them, without honor, and without dignity. Can you guess that I've had to install a VMS upgrade with an RRD40 drive and had to swap several CDs to load layered products with only two caddies? I really, really, really don't like RRD40 drives. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Mon Apr 23 13:50:14 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VIC-20 References: <002f01c0cc18$35dc8620$88f8fea9@98box> Message-ID: <000b01c0cc26$3c9cb3a0$88f8fea9@98box> Disregard the message below, the address is incorrect. -Lanny ----- Original Message ----- From: Lanny Cox To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 2:39 PM Subject: Re: VIC-20 > Hi, > > My address is: > > Lanny Cox > PO Box 495 > Hr.Breton, NF > AOH 1PO > CANADA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rich Beaudry > To: > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:22 AM > Subject: RE: VIC-20 > > > > > > > 2. Are there any companies that still sell the memory upgrades for these > > > things? > > > > I have an 8K cartridge, and I believe also a 16K cartridge gathering dust > on > > my shelves. Email me your address, and I'll ship them off to you ... No > > guarantees that they work, but they're free :-) > > > > Also, try www.cmdweb.com. Prices are high, but they do have a lot of > > otherwise unavailable stuff for VICs, C-64s, and C-128s. > > > > > > > > 3. Did i get a good deal for 11 bucks? was it worth it?? > > > > > > > Just judging on price alone, I'd say yes, but as other have suggested, > only > > you can decide that.... I have paid probably more than others would pay > for > > a lot of things in my life, but at the time I considered them good > deals... > > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 23 13:44:26 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> References: Message-ID: > What's the problem with International shipping???? The World's a big I have always shipped anything anyplace the person needs it, but shipping is just ONE tip of the international sales iceberg. Here is my short list of troubles. Payment About half the time I get cash, fortunately nothing lost in transit, but I know that will happen. The rest of the time averages about 4 emails back and forth settling on what to send. Please, just use a postal money order in US funds. Wrong item Computers can be confusing, but sorting it out and educating a person over a $7 cable gets old. Cultur clash Item listed as "as is" untested, but with 1 year left on 5 year warranty. I get a series of gripe emails back, first because its old (duh 1 year left out of 5 does kind of mean its 4 years old), then (I love this) "I bid too much". This person made a mistake, and they want me to make it all better, not a little better mind you, but all better, ie refund purchase price and shipping both ways. They don't think about how unreasonable their request is, only what their own personal problem is. Shipping With $4 USPS priority mail I am provided free shipping materials, boxes, tape, mailing labels and I get 2 to 3 day delivery with online confirmation. International shipping is in general totally unpredictable, ie the mouse that took 4 months to arrive in Germany, and costs keep moving so I have to "check shipping costs" for every transaction since I am such a small time seller. Global Priority mail is OK, but expensive if it can't be stuffed in one of two fairly small envelopes. Everytime I ship I KNOW I am rolling the dice regarding some problem coming up. Dishonest This is nothing to do with international specifically, in fact most of my international customers are the best. Screw ups Ugh, this is the one that drives me nuts. People who are screw ups, ie don't tape the box closed, don't pack the item. Worst, I ship a guy priority a keyboard he just has to have immediately, so I don't even wait for a check to arrive. A week later I get a package, my same box loosely taped closed with the keyboard loose on top of the packing materials. I get stiffed for the auction price, the shipping, AND the moron tried plugging my DEC LK401 into some Wang/Wyse and blames me that it didn't work and now he looks dumb to his wife. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 23 13:46:11 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Anyone have one of these they could let go? > >Peace... Sridhar Whats the model number? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 13:25:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Using a 1.44MB 3.5inch floppy on an old controller In-Reply-To: <200104230055.UAA83606@shuswap.gate.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Apr 22, 1 08:55:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/70fafe81/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 13:42:24 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: from "Kev" at Apr 22, 1 09:58:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/2ec95a8d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 13:43:51 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: <15075.37191.445234.919445@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Apr 22, 1 10:19:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 417 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/030f7fcd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 13:48:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <1331.513T1400T2774733optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 23, 1 04:37:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1671 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/49f213bc/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 14:03:18 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> Message-ID: Cost is one of the biggies and when they see what the shipping is for an item they won for $50 they freak and back out. Been there, done that, no more. The buyers outside the US/Canada will always have other sellers such as yourself to buy from. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of ip500 > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:37 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > What's the problem with International shipping???? The World's a big > place and MANY eBay buyers are not US based. I ALWAYS put "Will Ship > Internationaly" in my auction copy and have had several hundred > successful > International transactions. USPS up to 20 kilos is usually pretty > reasonable. "Small Packet" may be gone but "Letter post" has replaced > it. > Global Priority is also good for small items and is only $9 for up to 2 > pounds. > Big stuff can go DHL, Emery Worldwide, FedEx or any number > of freight > consolidators ... It's really no big deal! As long as a foreign > bidder is willing to pay the shipping ... What's the Problem??? > Craig > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > > I think any of us that have sold a dozen or more items on ebay, > yahoo, etc > > are all sitting back smiling as we've done the same. I post > (very clearly) > > that shipping is to "USA 48 states only" or "USA and APO/FPO > only" or USA, > > APO/FPO and Canada only" etc to have a person in New Zealand > bid on the item > > and win it. I don't much care if they bid and get outbid as the > total comes > > up a few bucks. Really you shouldn't have to do all of this as > with ebay's > > fees and separate international auction sites they should have > already had > > things in place that if their location doesn't match the assigned > > shipping/selling locations that it prevents them from bidding, > or at least > > warns them that they are about to bid on an item that will only > be shipped > > to locations other than theirs. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > > > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:53 AM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > > > > > > At 09:29 PM 4/22/01 +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > >That seller should have put a notice stating "shipping in States > > > >only". Fact is, he didn't say this limitation and ebay is open to > > > >whole world. Ebay always says to sellers and buyers to please > > > >contact each other asap after the conclusion of this auction. > > > > > > It's kinda funny that you think eBay buyers read the > > > auction descriptions and fine print. > > > > > > I can't tell you how many times I've said "USA only" and had > > > international bidders and winners, or how many buyers want to > > > back out because of regret combined with an inability to read > > > the description, or who can't read the e-mail I send them that > > > says "US Mail or UPS, your choice" or "Shipping is $8" - rapidly > > > followed by their e-mail that says "How much is shipping?"... > > > and then the "USA only" international buyer wants you to falsify the > > > export document so they don't have to pay customs fees. > > > > > > You can get really screwed by international shipments > > > on inexpensive items - without lots of insurance and receipts, > > > who's to say the item didn't arrive? Ten+ years ago, I seem > > > to remember the Amiga market being scammed by Italian buyers > > > who'd claim over and over that their product never arrived. > > > > > > I was also bit by the recent dramatic change in the US Post Office's > > > rate for international shipments. Once upon a time, you could > > > send an item of a pound or so almost anywhere in the world > > > under the "small packet" rate. This is now gone, and rates > > > for sending abroad seem to have doubled or tripled. > > > > > > - John > > > From aeb56 at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 14:03:43 2001 From: aeb56 at bigfoot.com (Alice Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Portable as in the old XT portable or the PS/2 P70 portable? Where are you at as well? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vance Dereksen > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:28 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer > > > > Anyone have one of these they could let go? > > Peace... Sridhar > From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Mon Apr 23 14:02:00 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e Message-ID: Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. Truly one of a kind.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Apr 23 14:38:24 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <15075.1452.985180.635377@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20010423193824.40178.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > Hmm...perhaps Don Lancaster's "TV Typewriter Cookbook"? Definitely > a nice historically-sound pursuit. Copies can be found on eBay from > time to time. Fun! :-) I still have mine, along with the board I put together in grade school. It's never been powered on (largely because I could afford the interface, but not the video monitor or the KIM-1 to go with it). I keep it around to remind myself how much better my kit assembly skills have gotten since then. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Apr 23 14:40:53 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> References: <821.513T2000T2725341optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3AE44D05.31396.7DB69DB@localhost> I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a thrift. It has 8BNC connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90. It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or motivation to check it out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter. larry > > --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet. > > Ain't that so? > > Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. It is a token-passing protocol, with > either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected together > with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. More machines than that and you > have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted pair > interconnection scheme. > > I don't recall the bitrate, but it's much less than 10Mb. > > I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular > for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX > support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up. > > -ethan > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 23 14:46:04 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I believe it is a 5155. It is an XT and a monitor in a box. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > >Anyone have one of these they could let go? > > > >Peace... Sridhar > > Whats the model number? > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Apr 23 14:47:51 2001 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: "from brian roth at Apr 23, 2001 03:02:00 pm" Message-ID: <200104231947.OAA01592@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Looks the same as any other pdp 8/e to me (except mine, which was made in Ireland and not maynard massachusetts). So, what boards, cables, etc are included? Is it in working condition? Are al panel lights operational? What spares and manuals are included? Does it have both omnibus busses? etc? -Lawrence LeMay > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. > > Truly one of a kind.... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 > > Brian. > > > Brian Roth > Network Services > First Niagara Bank > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 23 14:47:46 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am talking about the old XT 5155 portable, not the PS/2 P70 8573, or the P75, or the L40SX, or the N51SX, or the CL57SX or the PC Convertible. I am in New York. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Alice Blakeman wrote: > Portable as in the old XT portable or the PS/2 P70 portable? Where are you > at as well? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vance Dereksen > > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:28 AM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer > > > > > > > > Anyone have one of these they could let go? > > > > Peace... Sridhar > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Apr 23 14:48:33 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010423082723.01e00a40@pc> Message-ID: <3AE48711.938C007D@idirect.com> >John Foust wrote: > I can't tell you how many times I've said "USA only" and had > international bidders and winners, or how many buyers want to > back out because of regret combined with an inability to read > the description, or who can't read the e-mail I send them that > says "US Mail or UPS, your choice" or "Shipping is $8" - rapidly > followed by their e-mail that says "How much is shipping?"... > and then the "USA only" international buyer wants you to falsify the > export document so they don't have to pay customs fees. Jerome Fine replies: On the other hand, what about a vendor who specifies that payment via Master Card/Visa, Money Order, etc. are acceptable, and later in the text also adds that PayPal is allowed as well, but never says that Master Card/Visa MUST be used via PayPal. One Vendor I purchased from added that restriction AFTER the auction and then turned around and said "that because no one else has ever complained, I was not allowed to do so either" and that PayPal was clearly stated. Yes, PayPal can been clearly stated as an option, but many other vendors do so as well. Some vendors mention both (as he did) and others mention ONLY Master Card/VISA. Also, I have never asked a vendor to submit a false export document, but I have asked that they verify that they would put ONLY the declared value of the shipment on the "Commercial Invoice" to Canada and not include the handling and freight - which is exactly what the customs people want to have. When a shipment is made to Canada and the declared value is less than $ US 12.00 ($ Can 20.00), customs does not bother to collect GST ($ Can 1.40). This saves two things. It speeds up customs by a whole day Also, a broker is not needed to clear the parcel which can be 5 or even 10 times the GST cost, since the brokerage charge is based on the amount of GST to be collected and can be 3 or even 5 times the amount of the GST. From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 23 14:53:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Looking for an IBM Portable Personal Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >Anyone have one of these they could let go? >> >>Peace... Sridhar > >Whats the model number? Mike, It sounds like he's looking for the IBM 5155 XT suitcase portable. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Apr 23 15:03:42 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Z/H 100 AND S 100 PARTS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010423130342.0081d750@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I'd be interested in buying some S100 boards and an IMSAI or an ALTAIR. Is this no-list no-view deal legit? Edwin Davis, CA At 03:55 PM 4/20/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Just spotted this message on comp.sys.zenith. > >Anybody else interested in a group purchase? > >Unfortunately, "no lists and no viewing" makes it difficult, but if we could >convince him of the number of people interested, maybe he would change his >mind?? > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 14:38:14 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply In-Reply-To: <20010423174521.69100.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> from "steve" at Apr 23, 1 10:45:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1056 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/4dfb8ad7/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 23 15:06:09 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE48711.938C007D@idirect.com> References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010423082723.01e00a40@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423150332.01e87220@pc> At 03:48 PM 4/23/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: >On the other hand, what about a vendor who specifies that payment >via Master Card/Visa, Money Order, etc. are acceptable, and later >in the text also adds that PayPal is allowed as well, but never says >that Master Card/Visa MUST be used via PayPal. I think I've had a bidder confused because PayPal's logo GIF includes the MC/VISA logos. I just pasted PayPal's HTML into my description in order to get the click-me PayPal logo, but it caused PayPal's MC/VISA logos to appear, too. - John From tony.eros at machm.org Mon Apr 23 15:20:25 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: <200104231947.OAA01592@caesar.cs.umn.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010423161915.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> I'm guessing that was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the guy who listed the computer mistakenly referring to it as an "Adaptec" -- Tony At 02:47 PM 4/23/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Looks the same as any other pdp 8/e to me (except mine, which was made in >Ireland and not maynard massachusetts). So, what boards, cables, etc are >included? Is it in working condition? Are al panel lights operational? >What spares and manuals are included? Does it have both omnibus busses? etc? > >-Lawrence LeMay > > > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in > the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact > replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they > decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. > > > > Truly one of a kind.... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 > > > > Brian. > > > > > > Brian Roth > > Network Services > > First Niagara Bank > > (716) 625-7500 X2186 > > Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 23 15:43:21 2001 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104231811.LAA12278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200104150142.SAA07499@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010423134047.02ce99e0@mail.zipcon.net> check out http://www.sunrk.com.au/ and get ahold of craig dewick that runs it, I believe he has solbournes and may be able to help you out his email is craig@sunrk.com.au At 11:11 AM 4/23/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, > not the > > > libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this > > > Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include > files. > > > (which means the included C compiler doesn't work right either, > sigh). lynx > > > would also be wonderful if you have it :-) > > > > I've got them all for 4.1.3 (if no one beats me to it.) > >Well, as it turns out, there are two binaries I could really use -- gcc >(although I guess I'd need a precompiled package) and gmake. > >I managed to get the include files together for cc but gcc bombs with a bus >error during the build process (egcs 2.95.2). > >Think 4.1.3 binaries would work okay on 4.1.1.? (This is actually Solbourne >OS/MP 4.1A.1.) > >I appreciate any suggestions. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: >http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- You're never too old to become younger. -- Mae West >------------------------ From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 23 15:28:37 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e References: Message-ID: <3AE49075.1C47E6CB@internet1.net> What's so special about it? It looks like a DEC PDP8 to me. Where does it say Adaptec? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA brian roth wrote: > > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. > > Truly one of a kind.... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 > > Brian. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 23 15:29:44 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives References: <200104231850.f3NIoCJ22597@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3AE490B8.B15D256@internet1.net> How is anybody going to use the boards if you have removed chips? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Eric Dittman wrote: > Also, the SCSI adapters are only for the > RRD40 drives and I've removed the three > ICs that are useful to me from each board. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 15:44:22 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423150332.01e87220@pc> Message-ID: I've been using Billpoint and although a half percent higher in fee and a delay in check clearing it's just as easy and no limit for free accounts on how much you accept in credit cards. It's tied to Ebay too and anyone verified as an ebay user is 90% there to using Billpoint as all they need is the finishes to open a Billpoint account. When I pay for an auction thru my checking I use Paypal as it is automatic with no 3-4 day wait for clearing (and no fee for me as buyer). > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:06 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > At 03:48 PM 4/23/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: > >On the other hand, what about a vendor who specifies that payment > >via Master Card/Visa, Money Order, etc. are acceptable, and later > >in the text also adds that PayPal is allowed as well, but never says > >that Master Card/Visa MUST be used via PayPal. > > I think I've had a bidder confused because PayPal's logo GIF > includes the MC/VISA logos. I just pasted PayPal's HTML into > my description in order to get the click-me PayPal logo, but it > caused PayPal's MC/VISA logos to appear, too. > > - John > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 15:44:21 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exactly right. I use an old 360k drive attached to one of the Molex connectors to get the old ones to kick in - threw away 3 old supplies before I knew that, long time ago. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 2:38 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply > > > > > > Hi, > > > > The PS in my IBM Portable seems to be dead. > > How are you testing it? Most IBM PC PSUs of that period need a load > before they will start up. The PSU on its own will appear to give > no outputs. > > > > > > I would appreciate it if someone could send me a new > > PS! > > Would you be interested in having a go at repairing the existing PSU. > From what I remember it's a fairly conventional SMPSU, similar to the one > in the PC/XT machine. You'll need bristol spline keys and tamperproof > torx drivers to get inside, though, and at least a multimeter for > troubleshooting (a 'scope and isolating transformer are useful!). You'll > need the bristol spline keys to get the whole PSU unit out of the > 5155, BTW. > > If you do decide to go inside, remeber there are dangerous voltages in > there. Much of the circuitry is not isolated from the power line. And > there are capacitors that charge up to a total of 400V (and when the unit > is operational, that circuit can easily supply enough current to kill > you!). Take great care if you do pull the cover. > > -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 23 15:49:16 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <3AE490B8.B15D256@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 23, 2001 04:29:44 PM Message-ID: <200104232049.NAA13745@shell1.aracnet.com> No kidding, they'd have been interesting if not for that, since I'm assuming they're M7552 Q-Bus boards (which aren't really SCSI boards). :^( Zane > How is anybody going to use the boards if you have removed chips? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Eric Dittman wrote: > > Also, the SCSI adapters are only for the > > RRD40 drives and I've removed the three > > ICs that are useful to me from each board. > From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Mon Apr 23 15:57:29 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e Message-ID: Thanks Tony. You guys were starting to worry me. Brian. I'm guessing that was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the guy who listed the computer mistakenly referring to it as an "Adaptec" -- Tony Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 23 03:42:03 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <842.513T150T5823575optimus@canit.se> Russ Blakeman skrev: >Whatever a hundred SEK correlates to in USD. You did good on the first one >though. One thing I like about the dual video is the monitor I got with it, >a Magnavox, has both RGB and composite inputs that are switchable from the >front. It also works well as a test monitor for camcorder and VCR/VCP >repairs. I did have it attached to a vcr for a while and used the VCR as the >tuner and watched TV in the shop without the aid of a separate television. That's how I watch TV nowadays, using a Philips 8833 plugged into the video. It's funny, when I was young, I used a TV for a monitor, now I use a monitor as a TV. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. I use it occasionally... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 16:11:37 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <3AE490B8.B15D256@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 23, 2001 04:29:44 PM Message-ID: <200104232111.f3NLBb323318@narnia.int.dittman.net> > How is anybody going to use the boards if you have removed chips? Standard ICs. A 5380, an 80C31, and an EPROM. They've both been spoken for, however. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 23 12:16:43 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: Resolved! Was: My first problem w/ ebay came up... In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423150332.01e87220@pc> Message-ID: <20010423211457.BAEH17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Re the Macvizion fuss: That seller took sweet time and finally responded and I got email Monday today, it landed in my emailbox when I was away all day trolling for neato computer junk catch, turned up empty-handed and miffed at our bus system for wasting 4 hours for 1 hour worth of search. :-) All ok now! Whew. Cheers, :-D Wizard From rhblake at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 16:18:36 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <842.513T150T5823575optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: I know, it's weird isn't it? All sorts of bass-ackwards changes have come alomg in the last 20 or 30 yrs, like using your cable to get internet and using it to make phone calls. I know people that don't even use their landline - they have cell for when they are away and use internet phone over either Starband satellite or their cablemodem. The phone sits there idle and the phone company is glad to bill them every month for a line they never use. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Iggy Drougge > Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 12:00 AM > To: Russ Blakeman > Subject: RE: VIC-20 > > > Russ Blakeman skrev: > > >Whatever a hundred SEK correlates to in USD. You did good on the > first one > >though. One thing I like about the dual video is the monitor I > got with it, > >a Magnavox, has both RGB and composite inputs that are > switchable from the > >front. It also works well as a test monitor for camcorder and VCR/VCP > >repairs. I did have it attached to a vcr for a while and used > the VCR as the > >tuner and watched TV in the shop without the aid of a separate > television. > > That's how I watch TV nowadays, using a Philips 8833 plugged into > the video. > It's funny, when I was young, I used a TV for a monitor, now I > use a monitor > as a TV. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. > I use it occasionally... :-) > --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> > From truthanl at oclc.org Mon Apr 23 16:15:48 2001 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: RFI shielding Basement Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA0172D2ED@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> Clint, Since your basement is already below grade it is not likely you would have too much horizontally polarized RFI radiating from it. You might just consider putting in a decorative tin cieling like in old 1890's vintage saloons, The way the panels interlock might provide a good faraday shield for vertically polarized radiated rf from the basement. It could be electrically bonded and tied to waterpipes etc for a good ground. How about fine metal screen stapled to the botton of open rafter/floor joists. Perhaps you can find foil covered craft paper backed fiberglass insulation, staple it up then bond the seams with 3M foil tape? This would also dampen mechanical noise of a big iron system running. If not insulation, the heaviest wide roll of tin foil. Overlap the seams and staple up then cover with battens to accept acoustic tile cieling? Foil Backed foam panels etc. See what other truly conductive building materials you can find. They even make conductive paint these days. Your best value will be in conventional conductive building materials, not specialized RFI materials. Usually door panels on computer cabinetry are gasketed with spring finger stock to keep RFI leaks to a minimum, but usually there is close mesh and larger grates on the top of machines to allow cooling by convection. Sincerely Larry Truthan From co273 at freenet.buffalo.edu Mon Apr 23 16:28:51 2001 From: co273 at freenet.buffalo.edu (Kev) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:38 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Basically, it operates in 2 modes. The first is 'CGA emulation'. It does > just about everything a real CGA card would do, with the exception of the > 100*160 mode. It does do the normal text modes, etc. The card appears to > have video memory in the PC's address space at the conventional CGA > address. This mode can be disabled by a jumper on the card, so the card > can co-exist with a real CGA card (and, indeed, with an MDA card, or both > together, I think). How advanced did the IBM designs get? are there any added capability later on? I also heard that there are 3rd party vendors which designed and sold their own PGA based solutions. Who are they? Also, how practical was a PC/AT or a PC/XT equipped to the card compared to to similar products at that timeframe in that price range? In order words, are there better items for cheaper offered on the market at that time? > The second mode is the true PGC mode. It gives a 640*480 resolution, 8 > bit colour. The 256 possible colours are selected from a palette of 4096 > (4 bits each for R, G, B for each colour). This mode does _not_ use > memory-mapped video RAM in the PC's address space, the memory is 'local' > to the PGC card. The only way to access it is by sending commands to the > PGCs microprocesosr. There is a communication buffer area at C6000 hex in > the PC's memory space for about 1K > Hmmm...So there's no framebuffer in the card like today's SVGA cards, and so everything is done via commands through a DMA channel? > Physcially, the PGC consists of 3 PCBs (processor, emulator, memory). > These fit into 2 adjacent slots of a PC/XT or PC/AT system. The memory > card is sandwiched between the processor and emulator and doesn't fit > into a slot. > What is the emulator emulating, exactly? > There is an 8088 microprocesor, clocking at 8MHz (yes, faster than the > PC/XT this card could be installed in) on the processor board. It takes > commands from the PC and sticks the appropriate bit patterns in the video > memory on the card. There seems to be limited 3D capability in some of > the commands. Typical commands include drawing lines and arcs, drawing > polygons and circles, filling areas, printing text and so on. > So it's a bit like an S3 Virge 325, which is an SVGA chipset with 2D and very limited 3D support, but the S3 is VESA 1.2, while the PGA is very propietory. Of course, it WOULD be fun to stick a PGA card into an IBM PC/XT and write a version of some primitive 3D flat shaded game, say, Falcon AT, to take advantage of PGA...Of course, I predict the game would bring the PGA to its knees, since I really doubt the ability of the 8-Bit ISA slot to keep the PGA filled with data. > > > > I heard that it is one of the first video adapters with on-board transform > > capabilities, and that it is very ahead of its time. Can anyone please > > It certainly looks to be a fun card :-) > Yeah, I would like to think of it as the grand-daddy to the nVidia GeForce series. Hmmm...Are there software written especially to take advantage of the PGA? From emu at ecubics.com Mon Apr 23 16:33:10 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC Letterwriter 100 & windows References: <200104232111.f3NLBb323318@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3AE49F96.32A07B81@ecubics.com> Hi, Anybody out here has any experience using this printer on windows ? cheers & thanks From co273 at freenet.buffalo.edu Mon Apr 23 16:33:34 2001 From: co273 at freenet.buffalo.edu (Kev) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010422220733.00be6ef0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: > BTW, the architect for PGA is named Curtis Priem; he later went on to do > some 2D and 3D chip architecture for Sun, then went on to co-found (not > confound) NVidia, and is CTO there. > > BTW, the PGA was designed while he was at Vermont Microsystems, Inc. So I guess you might say that the GeForce GPU used in today's PCs are the ultimate evolution of the PGA design. From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Apr 23 16:34:34 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX Message-ID: <20010423163434.F20299@mrbill.net> I've got a large set of DEC "Orange Wall" binders full of VMS 4.x/5.x documentation, free for pickup in Austin, Texas: http://www.pdp11.org/pics/orange-wall.jpg I'm running out of room and need these to go to a good home. I'll also "throw in" a RX01-compatible dual 8" floppy drive unit, if anybody locally can use it / needs it: http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-switches.jpg Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 23 17:44:22 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: New stuff In-Reply-To: <01042220524503.01834@fatty> Message-ID: <20010423224009.JKKM24191.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Hey man, I'd love that DG 9track drive it it would't be too much trouble. Got the interface board for it? Regards, Jeff In <01042220524503.01834@fatty>, on 04/23/01 at 06:44 PM, Brian Roth said: >Just came back with a van full of goodies. >11/750 with box's full of docs and prints. >Early versions of VMS software and New docs in binders. >DECwriter II >DECstation 2100 >Box's of brand new sealed magtapes >Spare boards for 11/750's >Software for the 11/780. >Data General 9-track tape drive from a MV20000 series. >RA-92 >etc... >I also found a VAX 6000 but I beleive the owner has unrealistic ideas of >what he can get for it. >Brian. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 17:40:29 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: from "Kev" at Apr 23, 1 05:28:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3556 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/253d5fd8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 17:45:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104232111.f3NLBb323318@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 23, 1 04:11:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 639 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010423/51c75be7/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 23 17:47:44 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e Message-ID: <00c001c0cc48$ae626710$60759a8d@ajp166> Adaptec never made PDP-8s. I beleve other than DCC the PDP-8 was not ever built by anyother than DEC (or DEC Ireland). For the moment I'll leave out the Intersil/harris 6100 chips and related machines. Allison >> > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in >> the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact >> replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they >> decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. >> > >> > Truly one of a kind.... >> > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 >> > >> > Brian. One of a crock! From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Apr 23 18:03:17 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: fairly OT, but y'all may be able to help me :) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010421003144.02e66070@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <20010423230105.KIXE24191.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Schematics included with the Atari 850 serial interface might interest you. This interface does RS232, and both 20ma and 60ma current loop for tty interfacing. Interested? I'll scan em'. You might find the same on the web though, if you look for Atari 850. You'd be looking for details of port #s 3 and 4 of the four available on the 850 interface. Regards, Jeff In <5.0.2.1.2.20010421003144.02e66070@mail.zipcon.net>, on 04/23/01 at 07:03 PM, Geoff Reed said: >I need to test a device that uses sensors that send back a signal using a > 0-20MA current. anyone know of a source of a schematic to make something >to generate such in 1 ma increnemts? or have any tips??? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 23 18:06:00 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104231811.LAA12278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Apr 23, 2001 11:11:03 am" Message-ID: <200104232306.QAA10814@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > > Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, not the > > > libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this > > > Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include files. > > > (which means the included C compiler doesn't work right either, sigh). lynx > > > would also be wonderful if you have it :-) > > > > I've got them all for 4.1.3 (if no one beats me to it.) > > Well, as it turns out, there are two binaries I could really use -- gcc > (although I guess I'd need a precompiled package) and gmake. > > I managed to get the include files together for cc but gcc bombs with a bus > error during the build process (egcs 2.95.2). > > Think 4.1.3 binaries would work okay on 4.1.1.? (This is actually Solbourne > OS/MP 4.1A.1.) I've never had a problem with using a 4.1.3 binary on earlier 4.1.X. Looking at my gcc distribution. I've put a distribution at http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~korpela/gcc_sunos_4_1.tar.gz It extracts to a subdirectory (gnu). The executable directory is gnu/H-sparc-sun-sunos4.1/bin You'll need to set your GCC_EXEC_PREFIX to /full_path_to/gnu/H-sparc-sun-sunos4.1/lib/gcc-lib/ It includes gmake (called 'make' in the package). Let me know if there are any problems. Eric From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 18:12:33 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Pro380 Mono Video Cable Message-ID: <200104232312.f3NNCXT25608@narnia.int.dittman.net> I've borrowed a VR201 for a couple of days but the guy that loaned it to me did not have the cable. Is this a straight-through cable? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Apr 23 18:13:24 2001 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <3AE38180.C4E211F4@eoni.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20010423082723.01e00a40@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20010423150332.01e87220@pc> Message-ID: <3AE4B714.AC1ADF01@idirect.com> >John Foust wrote: > At 03:48 PM 4/23/01 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: > >On the other hand, what about a vendor who specifies that payment > >via Master Card/Visa, Money Order, etc. are acceptable, and later > >in the text also adds that PayPal is allowed as well, but never says > >that Master Card/Visa MUST be used via PayPal. > I think I've had a bidder confused because PayPal's logo GIF > includes the MC/VISA logos. I just pasted PayPal's HTML into > my description in order to get the click-me PayPal logo, but it > caused PayPal's MC/VISA logos to appear, too. Jerome Fine replies: In this case, the Master Card/VISA was listed UP FRONT in the payment methods without PayPal being even mentioned. Usually, if a vendor wants to allow PayPal, then payment options says to see in the text and NO plastic is mentioned at all since PayPal allows more than just plastic. But this vendor seemed to think that because PayPal was mentioned in the text and he was in the US where PayPal is a reasonable option in most cases, then it was OK for outside the US as well as a requirement and that PayPal was equivalent in all aspects - which it is not - and this was before PayPal was even allowed outside the US. Now, although PayPal is available outside the US, there are extra charges to use it even if, so I understand, the purchaser pays in US dollars. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 18:16:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Pro380 Mono Video Cable In-Reply-To: <200104232312.f3NNCXT25608@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 23, 1 06:12:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 331 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/95aef233/attachment.ksh From curt at atari-history.com Mon Apr 23 18:28:23 2001 From: curt at atari-history.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: fairly OT, but y'all may be able to help me :) References: <20010423230105.KIXE24191.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <3AE4BA97.A78520F3@atari-history.com> Atari 850 tech data, you got it: http://www.atari-history.com/atari850.html Curt THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Schematics included with the Atari 850 serial interface might interest > you. This interface does RS232, and both 20ma and 60ma current loop for > tty interfacing. Interested? I'll scan em'. You might find the same on > the web though, if you look for Atari 850. You'd be looking for details > of port #s 3 and 4 of the four available on the 850 interface. > > Regards, > > Jeff > > In <5.0.2.1.2.20010421003144.02e66070@mail.zipcon.net>, on 04/23/01 > at 07:03 PM, Geoff Reed said: > > >I need to test a device that uses sensors that send back a signal using a > > 0-20MA current. anyone know of a source of a schematic to make something > >to generate such in 1 ma increnemts? or have any tips??? > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 18:32:13 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 23, 2001 11:45:33 PM Message-ID: <200104232332.f3NNWD825794@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > How is anybody going to use the boards if you have removed chips? > > > > Standard ICs. A 5380, an 80C31, and an EPROM. > > Except that, presumably, the EPROM contains firmware that makes the > adapter work. So you can't just go and buy an EPROM and stick it in -- > you have to know what to program into it. Yes, but I always read the EPROMs from everything I have or come across even if I don't need it, as someone might. > I must say that I find the practice of removing common, easy-to-get parts > from a classic computer to be very annoying. In many cases (when it's > been done to me), I would have been happy to pay enough extra for the > machine to buy said parts at the new, retail, price. Just to keep the > original parts in the machine. I usually leave the parts in place, but I have a need for the 5380 ICs to repair another classic, the 80C31 ICs for another, and the EPROMs are 27C256's, and I'm out of those. In many cases the only way to repair some classic systems is by cannibalizing others. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 23 18:30:20 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: from Kev at "Apr 23, 2001 05:28:51 pm" Message-ID: <200104232330.QAA11297@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> For those interested in programming information, the pc-vista package (available at http://www2.sci.muni.cz/pub/ccdsoft/ (the first place google returned)) contains some PGA image display routines. The commands were text based. To clear the screen to color 0 you'd write " CLS 0 " into the communications buffer. To draw a circle or radius 10 at (150,150 ) in color 15 using line function 1 you'd send " LF 1 C 15 M 150 150 CI 10 ". The PGA routines for PC Vista were written here at UCB. The undergraduate lab used to have an AT with a PGA. We also had a couple of PC-RT's running X10 as a windowing system as opposed to X11. And a couple XTs running some Unix version (PCIX?) I'm sure they have long since gone to the surplus store or the scrap heap. :( I need to stop the nostalgia now or I'll break into a rousing rendition of "Where have all the RTs gone?" Eric From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 23 18:16:15 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <3AE44D05.31396.7DB69DB@localhost> References: <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> <821.513T2000T2725341optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: > I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a thrift. It has 8BNC >connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90. > It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or motivation to >check it out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter. What should I look for on a network card that would mark it as ARCNET instead of just coax something else? From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 23 18:39:10 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 23, 2001 11:40:29 pm" Message-ID: <200104232339.QAA11416@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Looking at the manual, it would appear that the PGC would not be much use > for displaying bitmapped graphics. It's designed to display lines, arcs, > polygons, etc, described as such (i.e. draw a line from point 1 to point > 2). It would appear to be a reasonable card (for the time) for CAD, or > graph plotting, or something like that. It does support image display to some extent. It has an image_write function (0xd9) that will write a bunch of pixels. The function (only available in binary command mode) is of the format {0xd9,y_start,x_start,x_end} followed by packets containing the pixel values. It certainly wasn't fast, but it was faster than setting each pixel individually. Wouldn't recommend trying to write a graphics intensive game for it, though. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 18:44:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: <200104232330.QAA11297@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Apr 23, 1 04:30:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/2a9acc5b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 18:48:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104232332.f3NNWD825794@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 23, 1 06:32:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1100 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/0b4f2fbe/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 23 18:50:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: <200104232339.QAA11416@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at Apr 23, 1 04:39:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1055 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/2f5eb911/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 23 19:12:27 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: References: <3AE44D05.31396.7DB69DB@localhost> <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> <821.513T2000T2725341optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010423201227.00ff6d18@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Mike Ford may have mentioned these words: >> I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a thrift. It has 8BNC >>connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90. >> It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or motivation to >>check it out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter. > >What should I look for on a network card that would mark it as ARCNET >instead of just coax something else? At least in the PeeCee world, every arcnet card I've ever seen had an 8-up DIP switch to set the Arcnet address - IIRC you can only have 256 arcnet cards on a network. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ecloud at bigfoot.com Mon Apr 23 19:18:14 2001 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Resolved! Was: My first problem w/ ebay came up... In-Reply-To: <20010423211457.BAEH17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron>; from jpero@sympatico.ca on Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 05:16:43PM +0000 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010423150332.01e87220@pc> <20010423211457.BAEH17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010423171814.E17703@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> I had a good experience with MacVizion; they are a business though, so no surprise they don't do business on the weekend. On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 05:16:43PM +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Re the Macvizion fuss: -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Apr 23 19:14:36 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104232049.NAA13745@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Hi Zane, I think the board he is talking about is a SCSI <==> audio CD interface... The original CD (not CD-ROM) interface is a three (or four) wire affair with Left/Right, Clock, Serial data which is fed into a DAC to produce music... The early CD-ROM drives took these signals, recognized the sector header (00-FF-FF-FF-FF-00 IIRC) and decoded the data. Presumably, some extra signals were added to control seeking, etc... I've got one of these boards, and I suspect the parts removed were: 80C31, 27C256, and NCR 5380 (only parts socketted). The drive is completely useless without these chips. clint On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > No kidding, they'd have been interesting if not for that, since I'm assuming > they're M7552 Q-Bus boards (which aren't really SCSI boards). :^( > > Zane > > > > How is anybody going to use the boards if you have removed chips? > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > > > > Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Also, the SCSI adapters are only for the > > > RRD40 drives and I've removed the three > > > ICs that are useful to me from each board. > > > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Mon Apr 23 19:18:18 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > How is anybody going to use the boards if you have removed chips? > > > > Standard ICs. A 5380, an 80C31, and an EPROM. > > Except that, presumably, the EPROM contains firmware that makes the > adapter work. So you can't just go and buy an EPROM and stick it in -- > you have to know what to program into it. > I've got the board and can dump the EPROM if required. > I must say that I find the practice of removing common, easy-to-get parts > from a classic computer to be very annoying. In many cases (when it's > been done to me), I would have been happy to pay enough extra for the > machine to buy said parts at the new, retail, price. Just to keep the > original parts in the machine. > Amen to that! > -tony > > > clint From allain at panix.com Mon Apr 23 19:23:13 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC Letterwriter 100 & windows References: <200104232111.f3NLBb323318@narnia.int.dittman.net> <3AE49F96.32A07B81@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <00c301c0cc55$8077df80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Long time ago I used an LA100 on W3.11. Don't know if that qualifies for you. I wrote my own paginator (just added 's, page numbers and the date) in 'c'. Look for a "Generic / Text Only" device, it's still there in 95/8. John A. ----- Original Message ----- From: emanuel stiebler To: Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: DEC Letterwriter 100 & windows Hi, Anybody out here has any experience using this printer on windows ? cheers & thanks From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Apr 23 19:20:24 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: New stuff In-Reply-To: <20010423224009.JKKM24191.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> References: <20010423224009.JKKM24191.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Message-ID: <01042320213600.00792@fatty> Jeff, No, just the drive. The thing is a monster easily weighing #300. Brian. n Mon, 23 Apr 2001, you wrote: > Hey man, I'd love that DG 9track drive it it would't be too much trouble. > > Got the interface board for it? > > > Regards, > > Jeff > > > In <01042220524503.01834@fatty>, on 04/23/01 > at 06:44 PM, Brian Roth said: > > >Just came back with a van full of goodies. > > >11/750 with box's full of docs and prints. > >Early versions of VMS software and New docs in binders. > >DECwriter II > >DECstation 2100 > >Box's of brand new sealed magtapes > >Spare boards for 11/750's > >Software for the 11/780. > >Data General 9-track tape drive from a MV20000 series. > >RA-92 > >etc... > > >I also found a VAX 6000 but I beleive the owner has unrealistic ideas of > >what he can get for it. > > >Brian. > > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 20:29:38 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 12:48:31 AM Message-ID: <200104240129.f3O1Tcw26175@narnia.int.dittman.net> > The only one of those that's even marginally hard to find is the 5380. > AFAIK, the other 2 are either still being made, or at least there are > plenty of stocks of them (at least over here). So if anyone actually ever wanted to use the boards the ICs could be replaced. > And IMHO there are less rare machines to raid for the 5380 (I won't > mention any of them, to avoid flames, but, heck, it turns up on some PC > SCSI cards...) > > In many cases the only way to repair some classic systems is by > > cannibalizing others. > > Sure, for rare parts, or custom parts, or parts that simply aren't made > any more. When I found a few boards stuffed with AMD2900 series chips in > a surplus shop, you can bey I bought them and removed the chips (the > boards had already had the edge connector fingers cut off to recover the > gold from them, and anyway I have no idea what they came out of). > > But for common, still-easy-to-get parts, I'd rather buy them new than > strip them out of a classic computer. Some things aren't worth preserving, like the RRD40. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 20:34:00 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Apr 23, 2001 06:14:36 PM Message-ID: <200104240134.f3O1Y0W26194@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I think the board he is talking about is a SCSI <==> audio CD > interface... The board is an LSI-SCSI adapter. This allowed the drives to be used in a SCSI system. When I used one of these drives with a MicroVAX 3900 there was an interface that drove the drive directly. The RRD40 drives are slow, and the adapter makes them slower. An RRD42 is a much better and easier to use drive. > The original CD (not CD-ROM) interface is a three (or four) wire > affair with Left/Right, Clock, Serial data which is fed into > a DAC to produce music... The early CD-ROM drives took these > signals, recognized the sector header (00-FF-FF-FF-FF-00 IIRC) > and decoded the data. Presumably, some extra signals were added > to control seeking, etc... The audio interface wasn't used with the SCSI adapter. > I've got one of these boards, and I suspect the parts removed > were: 80C31, 27C256, and NCR 5380 (only parts socketted). > > The drive is completely useless without these chips. The drive is certainly useable with these ICs. They just can't be used in a SCSI system, but then again, with the slow access and weird, hard-to-handle caddies, that's no loss. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Apr 23 20:32:54 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Apr 24, 2001 00:48:31 am" Message-ID: <200104240132.f3O1Wtb11595@bg-tc-ppp502.monmouth.com> > And IMHO there are less rare machines to raid for the 5380 (I won't > mention any of them, to avoid flames, but, heck, it turns up on some PC > SCSI cards...) Hell, I've got 3 Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum cards with 5380's on 'em I think. Picked em up for $5.00 at a Flea Market. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Apr 23 20:34:57 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104232306.QAA10814@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Apr 23, 2001 04:06:00 pm" Message-ID: <200104240134.f3O1YvU11653@bg-tc-ppp502.monmouth.com> > I've never had a problem with using a 4.1.3 binary on earlier 4.1.X. Looking > at my gcc distribution. I've put a distribution at > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~korpela/gcc_sunos_4_1.tar.gz > It extracts to a subdirectory (gnu). The executable directory is > gnu/H-sparc-sun-sunos4.1/bin The only issue is with some dynamically linked libraries (linked against shared libraries that don't exist.... Some symlinks usually fix that. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Apr 23 20:44:06 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010423161915.09190d50@mail.njd.concentric.com> from Tony Eros at "Apr 23, 2001 04:20:25 pm" Message-ID: <200104240144.f3O1i6n11763@bg-tc-ppp502.monmouth.com> > > > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in > > the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact Probably the only word adaptec on the thing is on the owner's property tags. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 23 21:16:08 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives References: <200104240129.f3O1Tcw26175@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3AE4E1E8.B398095B@internet1.net> IF, they know of someone with the tools and code to progam a new one! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Eric Dittman wrote: > > > The only one of those that's even marginally hard to find is the 5380. > > AFAIK, the other 2 are either still being made, or at least there are > > plenty of stocks of them (at least over here). > > So if anyone actually ever wanted to use the boards the ICs could > be replaced. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 23 21:29:42 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <3AE4E1E8.B398095B@internet1.net> References: <200104240129.f3O1Tcw26175@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010423192839.0208e610@208.226.86.10> FWIW I could use a DEC RRD40 CD-ROM (original 15 pin interface) w/ Caddy if someone has one. I'm restoring yes another MicroVAX II and that is the drive to match up with one. --Chuck From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 23 21:42:42 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422214017.02b49d50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AE4E822.D7F5E2D@internet1.net> Hello Chuck! Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 07:04 PM 4/21/01 -0400, you wrote: > >My 11 came with a 3 4-port serial cards. They are M8043 boards. I > >can't see myself using that many serial ports. Does anybody have the > >little blank steel plates to put in a BA23 chassis so I can remove the > >plates that have the 4 db25 connectors? > > Yup, send me your snail mail address. I'll send you a private email as well. > > >Also, I need the plate that fits into the space below the serial ports. > >It looks to be slightly larger than a centronics 50 SCSI connector. > > Got that too :-) Good :-) > ECC is better than parity, it actually fixes problems it detects. Okay, thats what I thought, but wasn't sure. > > > One of my parity boards says "Mos RAM" What us that? > > Memory made out of integrated circuits (Metal-Oxide-Semiconductor) versus > "CORE RAM" which would be memory made out of magnetic cores. Oh I see. Okay, this computer is of a caliber, and old enough, so that MOS memory wasn't taken for granted, like it is now. This would be like some of my old audio equipment that boasts of its transistors :-) > I've got the bezel too but it won't help you unless you find someone to get > you the latches that it attaches to (I do not have an extra of those). They > have two heavy duty velcro circles on them. Also the BA23 in the rack sits > in a "tray" that mounts to the rack. If you do decide to actually rack > mount it you will need one of those too. Oh, I didn't know that. Do you know of any pictures on-line? I have been kicking around the idea of buying a rack, actaully. Does the BA213 take anything special to convert to rackmount? Does it use a different bezel, or no bezel at all? I figured if I did buy a rack, I would put the 3400 in as well. Chad From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 23 21:59:03 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010423192839.0208e610@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 23, 2001 07:29:42 PM Message-ID: <200104240259.f3O2x3N26986@narnia.int.dittman.net> > FWIW I could use a DEC RRD40 CD-ROM (original 15 pin interface) w/ Caddy if > someone has one. I'm restoring yes another MicroVAX II and that is the > drive to match up with one. The RRD42 would be a better choice. The RRD42 was an option for a MVII. Plus, the RRD40 was a real pain in the butt to use, and the caddies lead to scratched CDs (it was real easy to drop the CD trying to load it in the caddy). I really don't consider the RRD40 a classic. They were just a repackaged OEM CDROM drive with an oddball interface, but nothing special. For a while you could even buy ISA soundcards with the same interface for your PC. I would consider the RRD50 a classic, though. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ip500 at home.com Mon Apr 23 23:09:51 2001 From: ip500 at home.com (ip500) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: IBM 7171 Terminal Controllers Message-ID: <3AE4FC8F.8A23159C@home.com> If anyone is interested ... there are a number of IBM 7171 that will be coming available in the near future. I would expect the price to be in the $100 range but as they are IBM .. they're probably HUGE and BLUE. Any interest I can find out more info and pass it along privately. Craig Located in Virginia, Roanoke to be exact. From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 24 00:44:53 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010423201227.00ff6d18@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Mike Ford may have mentioned these words: > >> I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a thrift. It has 8BNC > >>connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90. > >> It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or > motivation to > >>check it out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter. > > > >What should I look for on a network card that would mark it as ARCNET > >instead of just coax something else? > > At least in the PeeCee world, every arcnet card I've ever seen had an 8-up > DIP switch to set the Arcnet address - IIRC you can only have 256 arcnet > cards on a network. Also, virtually every one that I have seen carries a flat epoxy coated 1x2" circuit package with 20-pins along one of the long edges. - don > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 24 02:26:42 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: 3Mb Ethernet" (Apr 23, 19:48) References: Message-ID: <10104240826.ZM26819@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 23, 19:48, Tony Duell wrote: > > >AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no > > >10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've > > >never seen one that does). > > > > Oh, I mean as in being able to plug a 3Mb device into a 10Mb network. > > ALmost certainly not. Remember there were no 'hubs' back then -- ethernet > was implemented using relatively dumb transceivers (certainly without any > form of data buffering or rate conversion) linked by coaxial cable. A > 3Mbps system is not going to be able to handle 10Mbps data on the cable. A hub is just a repeater, it doesn't do anything to the data stream, and it wouldn't make any difference. But repeaters were part of the 3Mb/s spec, and Xerox did have some. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Tue Apr 24 07:04:33 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1176.514T1650T7845387optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet. >> Ain't that so? >Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. It is a token-passing protocol, >with either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected >together with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. More machines than >that and you have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted >pair interconnection scheme. AFAIK, it's possible to use it an bus sense as well, but that depends on the chipset used, since they are specced for different resistance or something like that. >I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular >for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX >support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up. Silly old Commodore also decided that it were to be the official Amiga network standard. Mind you, it was cheaper, but quite useless in an Ethernet world. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "Jag ?r 35 ?r och citerar planetens och v?rldshistoriens b?sta anime hur mycket jag vill, bl?jbarn." ?ke Rosenius From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 24 07:35:27 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <1176.514T1650T7845387optimus@canit.se> References: <20010423145955.1283.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424072740.01d0f4d0@pc> At 01:04 PM 4/24/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular >>for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX >>support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up. > >Silly old Commodore also decided that it were to be the official Amiga network >standard. Mind you, it was cheaper, but quite useless in an Ethernet world. I don't remember that CBM tried to enforce a standard. I doubt it would've been pushed by CBM/Amiga engineers who were daily using VAXes and Suns. I may still have an ARCnet A2000 card somewhere. I've begun to clean out the basement troves in preparation for a series of eBay auctions. I'll be unloading some rare items like t-shirts from the first through the 1993 developer conferences, and the t-shirt from the first "Amiga wake" held at Dale Luck's house in 1987 when they closed the Los Gatos office. I also found a Hydra rev 1.0 Ethernet card for the A2000. I've always thought it was unusual because it as two BNC as well as an AUI port. Can anyone else remember Ethernet cards with two BNC like this? Were 10base2 "T" connectors rare? I believe Hydra was a UK company, if that matters. - John From at258 at osfn.org Tue Apr 24 08:18:37 2001 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Resolved! Was: My first problem w/ ebay came up... In-Reply-To: <20010423211457.BAEH17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: See? Be calm. All things come to he who waits, and they did. Anything worth doing today is worth doing two weeks from today. If it isn't, it probably isn't worth doing at all. Festina lente. On Mon, 23 Apr 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Re the Macvizion fuss: > > That seller took sweet time and finally responded and I got email > Monday today, it landed in my emailbox when I was away all day > trolling for neato computer junk catch, turned up empty-handed and > miffed at our bus system for wasting 4 hours for 1 hour worth of > search. :-) > > All ok now! Whew. > > Cheers, :-D > > Wizard > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 24 09:55:13 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <200104231700.f3NH0Rf25441@civic.hal.com> References: <002b01c0ca90$25bc9070$f5759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010424095513.091741ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made to work with? Joe From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Apr 24 09:15:02 2001 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? Message-ID: <34.143121a7.2816e466@aol.com> In a message dated 4/24/01 9:48:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > to work with? > > Joe > Should work with the old PET computers - it should have an IEEE interface. -Linc Fessenden A good magician never reveals his secret; the unbelievable trick becomes simple and obvious once it is explained. So too with LINUX! The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 24 09:22:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010424095513.091741ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> from Joe at "Apr 24, 1 09:55:13 am" Message-ID: <200104241422.HAA10570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > to work with? PETs, of course! And any Commodore with an IEEE-488 interface, even the 64 if you happen to have an IEEE interface cartridge. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why, I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 09:22:00 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? Message-ID: In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a stereotypical Commodore style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug on the end - but only on one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I know it's factory as the housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into it. Anyone know the function of this cable? Is it possibly a factory cable to allow connection to a PC serial port with Commodore peripherals, or PC peripherals to a Commodore port? Never seen one like this and I don't think I've heard of one like this. I know there's Commodore savvy people on this list and they'll know exactly what it's for. Any help is appreciated very much... From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Apr 24 09:23:20 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: References: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> Message-ID: <3AE55418.8573.BDF329C@localhost> > > What's the problem with International shipping???? The World's a big > > I have always shipped anything anyplace the person needs it, but shipping > is just ONE tip of the international sales iceberg. Here is my short list > of troubles. > > Payment > About half the time I get cash, fortunately nothing lost in transit, but I > know that will happen. The rest of the time averages about 4 emails back > and forth settling on what to send. Please, just use a postal money order > in US funds. > I've had the reverse problem several times. Altho I clearly state payment by international M.O. the M.O. arrives with "only negotiable in the US or possessions". Many americans forget that there is indeed a border there and that Uncle Sam wants to know if money is going out of the country. > Wrong item > Computers can be confusing, but sorting it out and educating a person over > a $7 cable gets old. > > Cultur clash > Item listed as "as is" untested, but with 1 year left on 5 year warranty. I get > a series of gripe emails back, first because its old (duh 1 year left out of 5 > does kind of mean its 4 years old), then (I love this) "I bid too much". This > person made a mistake, and they want me to make it all better, not a little > better mind you, but all better, ie refund purchase price and shipping both > ways. They don't think about how unreasonable their request is, only what their > own personal problem is. > That is true of any epay transaction and not specifically international. > Shipping > With $4 USPS priority mail I am provided free shipping materials, boxes, > tape, mailing labels and I get 2 to 3 day delivery with online > confirmation. International shipping is in general totally unpredictable, > ie the mouse that took 4 months to arrive in Germany, and costs keep moving so I > have to "check shipping costs" for every transaction since I am such a small > time seller. Global Priority mail is OK, but expensive if it can't be stuffed in > one of two fairly small envelopes. Everytime I ship I KNOW I am rolling the > dice regarding some problem coming up. > Well since the buyer pays that shouldn't be your problem. I have a small program that gives me shipping cost based on weight and region. I was under the impression that the US postal service also charges according to weight and distance. Why do US sellers ask for your ZIP code ? > Dishonest > This is nothing to do with international specifically, in fact most of my > international customers are the best. > > Screw ups > Ugh, this is the one that drives me nuts. People who are screw ups, ie > don't tape the box closed, don't pack the item. Worst, I ship a guy > priority a keyboard he just has to have immediately, so I don't even wait > for a check to arrive. A week later I get a package, my same box loosely > taped closed with the keyboard loose on top of the packing materials. I get > stiffed for the auction price, the shipping, AND the moron tried plugging my DEC > LK401 into some Wang/Wyse and blames me that it didn't work and now he looks > dumb to his wife. > > Again this is something not related to International sales. Jerks are everywhere. One of the problems related to US sellers is that in some of the auction programs, the default entry is "we ship only within the continental US" In many cases I've found that they will indeed ship to Canada but just unthinkingly accepted the default. Some have responded insultingly "can't you read" and others have not responded at all. I think in some cases it's just the ignorance of not knowing the process of shipping internationally. To my mind they're missing out, since there's a market of 30 million in Canada alone. One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Apr 24 09:41:46 2001 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? Message-ID: <43.140579df.2816eaaa@aol.com> In a message dated 4/24/2001 6:48:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > to work with? I have seen them used on newer Pets. Early Commodores used GPIB for disk drives, printers etc. The 8040 was a huge Dual DSDD floppy drive, re. weight/mass & storage for the 8 bit days. It should work on any Commodore with a GPIB port. This was usually traces brought out to the Circuit card edge for an edge connector to connect with. Edge connector on one end and GPIB on the other end. I ran across a couple of those cables a couple of days ago. Prominently marked "Commodore." Several of the early machines had HPIB or GPIB. Of course the HP 8X series is the most well known. The Osborne came out with a GPIB port also IIRC. There was also a 4040 dual SSDD drive. Paxton From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Apr 24 09:46:09 2001 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? Message-ID: <20010424.094609.-473895.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Cameron Kaiser writes: > > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a > >HP-IB interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) > >it's made to work with? > > PETs, of course! And any Commodore with an IEEE-488 interface, even > the 64 if you happen to have an IEEE interface cartridge. Or even a VIC-20 for that matter (just happen to have a GPIB cart for mine :^). ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From optimus at canit.se Tue Apr 24 10:10:48 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:39 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424072740.01d0f4d0@pc> Message-ID: <3020.514T2400T9706345optimus@canit.se> John Foust skrev: >At 01:04 PM 4/24/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>>I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular >>>for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX >>>support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up. >> >>Silly old Commodore also decided that it were to be the official Amiga >>network standard. Mind you, it was cheaper, but quite useless in an Ethernet >>world. >I don't remember that CBM tried to enforce a standard. >I doubt it would've been pushed by CBM/Amiga engineers who >were daily using VAXes and Suns. I remember reading that when the cards were first introduced at some fair. I'd have a whole lot of reading ahead of me before I'd find that reference again, though. >I may still have an ARCnet A2000 card somewhere. I've begun >to clean out the basement troves in preparation for a series >of eBay auctions. I'll be unloading some rare items like >t-shirts from the first through the 1993 developer conferences, >and the t-shirt from the first "Amiga wake" held at Dale Luck's >house in 1987 when they closed the Los Gatos office. Los Gatos? >I also found a Hydra rev 1.0 Ethernet card for the A2000. >I've always thought it was unusual because it as two BNC >as well as an AUI port. Can anyone else remember Ethernet >cards with two BNC like this? Were 10base2 "T" connectors rare? >I believe Hydra was a UK company, if that matters. I wonder if Hydra aren't still in business, they were awfully long-lived. I suppose that the two connectors were supposed to be a novel idea, and doesn't it seem just a little bit neater with two cables coming into their designated connectors rather than a T piece with a lot of cable getting in the way? It really could encourage broken networks, though, if someone ever needed to move the computer. Besides, doesn't 10Base2 really dislike having any kind of "drop" connections? I seem to recall that any length of cabling between the NIC and the 10Base2 bus is seen as a bad idea. OTOH, some Mac NICs (Farallons?) had two 10BaseT connectors, so that one could make a daisy-chained TP network. Would be fun to have for showing-off purposes. BTW, the old Hydra "Amiganet" NIC really stinks, don't know if the one simply called Hydra is any better. BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup brought a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind of NIC. It dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by small" or something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky relay. The D9 is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device and chained to hte next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR the word RING screened onto the PCB. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have support for the PMAGC-B's on pmax right? That is a PixelVision based card right? I see Bt 463, that chip looks bigger than the 21164! Just looking at it makes me want to write an Xserver! Chris Tribo, NetBSD/pmax From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Apr 24 10:25:38 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104240134.f3O1YvU11653@bg-tc-ppp502.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Apr 23, 2001 09:34:57 pm" Message-ID: <200104241525.IAA29229@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > I've never had a problem with using a 4.1.3 binary on earlier 4.1.X. Looking > > at my gcc distribution. I've put a distribution at > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~korpela/gcc_sunos_4_1.tar.gz > > It extracts to a subdirectory (gnu). The executable directory is > > gnu/H-sparc-sun-sunos4.1/bin > > The only issue is with some dynamically linked libraries (linked > against shared libraries that don't exist.... > > Some symlinks usually fix that. I'm surprised that the directories are hard coded in the executable. Usually LD_LIBRARY_PATH is searched, so you can add library directories to that. Eric From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Apr 24 10:33:35 2001 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: IBM's PGA Adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> >> Hi. Can anybody provide me with some info on the IBM PGA/PGC adapters for >> the IBM PC/XT systems? > >> Also, where can I get some pictures, and is it still available for >> purchase? There are pictures of one that we have on my web site, in the Technological Oddities section. Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 24 10:31:20 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Amiga Ethernet 9pin network card In-Reply-To: <3020.514T2400T9706345optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 24, 2001 04:10:48 pm" Message-ID: <200104241531.f3OFVLj14248@bg-tc-ppp1469.monmouth.com> > BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup brought > a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind of NIC. It > dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by small" or > something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky relay. The D9 > is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device and chained to hte > next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR the word RING > screened onto the PCB. Sounds like standard token-ring to me. -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Apr 24 10:42:00 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: References: <3AE44D05.14683.7DB69AA@localhost> Message-ID: <3AE56688.25055.C273B96@localhost> > >> >> "Shipping cost will be $6.00 in the continental US Via US Postal Service" > >> > > >> >Psst. > >> > > >> >1. I'm in Canada. > >> > >> Hmmm, that isn't part of the united states yet, but I think it might be > >> later on. > >> > > > > Naahh, with the US running out of energy and water, we'll become like some > >of the oil-rich Arab states. Every Canadian will have a limosine and foreign > >workers will do the dirty work. > > We might have to seal the border tho to prevent american wetbacks from > >getting in. > > Tsk tsk, sniffing gasoline is a nasty habit. ;) > Well we have so much laying around up here that it can't be avoided. BTW, every British Colombia resident just got around a $200 rebate based on their sales of surplus electric power to California. Hope you have enough light to read this. I might be able to bootleg you some fresh water if you like. The government won't allow exports. It's possible that they might be willing to cut a deal to accept Alaska back tho. As global warming continues it's becoming positively balmy up here, on the other hand I guess increased air-conditioning needs should push up power consumption down there. More bucks in our coffers. &^)) heheheh. I had intended to send the previous message to the list but Pegasus defaulted to the previous reply mode. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Apr 24 10:42:00 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: VIC-20 In-Reply-To: <842.513T150T5823575optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <3AE56688.32690.C273BC4@localhost> I do the same, only on my regular SVGA with a JDH VideoMate. It's a neat little box with a tuner built in. Contains video i/o as well and a remote. JDH also made them in card form I understand. I also have a Power mac 7100av hooked up to a VCR but I find the full screen viewing slow and a bit jerky. That's with 32m memory. The Commodore monitors when used with a VCR as a tuner were also great. larry > Russ Blakeman skrev: > > >Whatever a hundred SEK correlates to in USD. You did good on the first one > >though. One thing I like about the dual video is the monitor I got with it, a > >Magnavox, has both RGB and composite inputs that are switchable from the front. > >It also works well as a test monitor for camcorder and VCR/VCP repairs. I did > >have it attached to a vcr for a while and used the VCR as the tuner and watched > >TV in the shop without the aid of a separate television. > > That's how I watch TV nowadays, using a Philips 8833 plugged into the video. > It's funny, when I was young, I used a TV for a monitor, now I use a monitor as > a TV. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. > > If you want to program in C, program in C. It's a nice language. > I use it occasionally... :-) > --Larry Wall (perl) in <7577@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> > > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 24 12:05:24 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Gouging! Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE55418.8573.BDF329C@localhost> References: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010424120524.1affd3c4@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:23 AM 4/24/01 -0400, Larry wrote: > > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling >charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. > This isn't confined to E-bay. This is common practice (at least in the US). In fact, MANY times when you mail order stuff you're not even getting it from the distributer/manufacturer. Many of them have agreements with an outside company whereby the other company stores it in their own warehouse and handles all the packing and shipping in return for those fat "handling and shipping charges". It's not a practice that I approve of. I feel like I'm paying twice for something. FWIW Everytime that I see anything about "handling or shipping charges" on an auction, I e-mail the seller and ask for the exact charge BEFORE I will bid on their item. Many times I do not bid on an item specificly because I feel that their charges are excessive or because they fail to reply to my questions. There are some bargains on E-bay but you really have to pay attention to the details! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Apr 24 11:53:57 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <200104241422.HAA10570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <3.0.1.16.20010424095513.091741ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010424115357.3aa7fedc@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:22 AM 4/24/01 -0700, Cameron wrote: >> I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB >> interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made >> to work with? > >PETs, of course! Any PET? I have an 8032 in DEEP storage. And any Commodore with an IEEE-488 interface, even the 64 >if you happen to have an IEEE interface cartridge. Hmmm. that's interesting. I didn't know about that. Thanks, Joe From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 24 10:57:55 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE55418.8573.BDF329C@localhost> References: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424105409.01db6570@pc> At 10:23 AM 4/24/01 -0400, Lawrence Walker wrote: > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling >charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. As far as I've learned, one of the great secrets of any mail order business is that you should cover your wholesale cost of goods in the shipping and handling charge, and that the price paid is the gravy that makes the business possible and profitable. Unfortunately, some mail order businesses are giving away this secret when they do stupid things like run ads that offer a free three-month supply of depilatory - if you pay the three S/H charges. In eBay transactions, unless the item fits in an envelope, the cost of shipping and handling *should* be worth considering and charging for. Good boxes aren't free. Good packing material isn't free. Arranging shipping isn't free. What's your time worth? If someone doesn't want to pay S/H, wish them luck finding the same item at a neighborhood garage sale. You must reasonably expect to pay for something to be shipped if you buy it online. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 24 11:01:58 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <3020.514T2400T9706345optimus@canit.se> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424072740.01d0f4d0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424105910.01e34ee0@pc> At 04:10 PM 4/24/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >>and the t-shirt from the first "Amiga wake" held at Dale Luck's >>house in 1987 when they closed the Los Gatos office. > >Los Gatos? Yes, that's where Amiga Corp. was, in Silicon Valley. I'm one of the guys who stole the big "Amiga" sign from the front of the building when they closed. It went to Paul Montgomery's garage, and from there went to Topeka, and I think it must be in Austin by now. >BTW, the old Hydra "Amiganet" NIC really stinks, don't know if the one simply >called Hydra is any better. Yes, that's the card I found. There must've been a reason it wasn't in use inside an A2000. :-) >BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup brought >a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind of NIC. It >dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by small" or >something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky relay. The D9 >is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device and chained to hte >next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR the word RING >screened onto the PCB. I'd guess that was Dave Small, the same guy who did the Atari and Amiga versions of the "Magic Sac" emulators of the Macintosh. - John From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Apr 24 11:36:50 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010424163650.6988.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi! I am testing the PS while still installed in the 5155. There are no voltages going to the motherboard. I don't have any experience in fixing these things, although I'm guessing that it's some power transistor that's gone out. Steve. --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > The PS in my IBM Portable seems to be dead. > > How are you testing it? Most IBM PC PSUs of that > period need a load > before they will start up. The PSU on its own will > appear to give no outputs. > > > > > > I would appreciate it if someone could send me a > new > > PS! > > Would you be interested in having a go at repairing > the existing PSU. > From what I remember it's a fairly conventional > SMPSU, similar to the one > in the PC/XT machine. You'll need bristol spline > keys and tamperproof > torx drivers to get inside, though, and at least a > multimeter for > troubleshooting (a 'scope and isolating transformer > are useful!). You'll > need the bristol spline keys to get the whole PSU > unit out of the 5155, BTW. > > If you do decide to go inside, remeber there are > dangerous voltages in > there. Much of the circuitry is not isolated from > the power line. And > there are capacitors that charge up to a total of > 400V (and when the unit > is operational, that circuit can easily supply > enough current to kill > you!). Take great care if you do pull the cover. > > -tony __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Apr 24 11:38:39 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010424163839.41897.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Hi! Are you sure it's not a 23 pin D connector? If so, it a video cable for the monitor. Steve --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a > stereotypical Commodore > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug > on the end - but only on > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I > know it's factory as the > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into > it. > > Anyone know the function of this cable? Is it > possibly a factory cable to > allow connection to a PC serial port with Commodore > peripherals, or PC > peripherals to a Commodore port? Never seen one like > this and I don't think > I've heard of one like this. I know there's > Commodore savvy people on this > list and they'll know exactly what it's for. Any > help is appreciated very > much... > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Apr 24 11:40:29 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? References: <200104241422.HAA10570@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3AE5AC7D.6A015039@aurora.regenstrief.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > > to work with? > > PETs, of course! And any Commodore with an IEEE-488 interface, even the 64 > if you happen to have an IEEE interface cartridge. Do you call all the CBM computers "PET"? I started my computing carreer on a PET, it had a built-in cassette recorder and a really bad keyboard. I never used a floppy with a PET. The 8050 I've seen first with the CBM 8000 (?) machines (or was it 1580? either 4000 and 8000 or 1540 and 1580, I can't remember.) Sometimes when disks were not read properly it helped closing the flap slowly just when the drive started moving ... just like ol' times :-) I have a 1541 floppy drive and a C=64 that doesn't work any more. Where could one get a C=64? I have seen interesting emulators for i386 Unix and X. I even read something about connecting a 1541 to the PC. The problem with those emulators is they want a BASIC and KERNEL ROM image. I can't pull those off my breadbox anymore since it is dead. Any ideas where I could get those images from? Will my 20 years old diskettes still work? I once wrote a program to backup floppies to cassette tape using turbo tape. My first macro-assembler project. Did it for a friend, worked like a charm. Unfortunately I didn't back up anything myself :-( regards -Gunther From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Apr 24 11:39:54 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104232306.QAA10814@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu>; from korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu on Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 04:06:00PM -0700 References: <200104231811.LAA12278@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <200104232306.QAA10814@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20010424113954.D20299@mrbill.net> On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 04:06:00PM -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote: >>>> Does someone have binaries for tcsh and perl (just the executable, not the >>>> libs) for sparc-sunos-4.1? Prefer 4.1.1. I can't get gcc running on this >>>>Solbourne because it looks like AST stripped a whole bunch of include files. BTW, I've got SunOS versions from 2.0 to 4.1.1 for Sun-2, Sun-3, and 386i machines up for FTP: ftp://ftp.sunhelp.org I wont be posting SunOS for sun4/SPARC any time soon, because its still so "new" that Sun cares about it. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Tue Apr 24 11:45:13 2001 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? References: Message-ID: <3AE5AD99.C995EF25@aurora.regenstrief.org> Russ Blakeman wrote: > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a stereotypical Commodore > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug on the end - but only on > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I know it's factory as the > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into it. > > Anyone know the function of this cable? This does sound like a serial cable to connect to a modem ... although, wouldn't a DCE device want a D25 male plug? Well, I guess you can easily find this out if you test the connectivity of the pins on either end. I still have my C64 manual at home, so I can look up what you should expect to see with the serial cable. regards -Gunther From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 11:48:55 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Gouging! Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010424120524.1affd3c4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I have had to "drop ship" items to customers from warehouses, to include from HP PartDirect. Not a big deal normally but of course many resellers add on shipping charges that the original shipper (such as HP) has included in the price, and make money by adding phoney shipping. In some instances the large flat fee is good, especially if you live in Florida and buy from a seller in Washington state. I usually use a nearby zip to estimate what the shipping would be for UPS and then figure in what the seller has to get involved with in packing and materials to see if it would be worth my while. I have seen stuff that was priced really low, to include the buy-it-now, only to see a ridiculous flat rate shipping. I have a heavy Lexmark laser on ebay now and I calculated (realistically) that packing materials to ship it properly would cost me about $9.50 (bubblewrap, peanuts, heavy wall box (or two identical single walls) so I posted that as a "packing/material fee" and then posted that actual UPS ground applies to the bid and packing fee. I can't get anymore real with the buyer than that. I just bought a different Lexmark strictly to get one with a duplexer and network card, and they had a flat $45 shipping listed. It shipped from Sacramento, CA to me in middle KY and I estimated that the 60+ lb box by UPS ground would cost $42 alone so they got $3 for a very well done packing job. I made out on that one where I've bought printers for customers (to resell essentially) and needed one super fast so I've gone for a $65 shipping/packing from Ohio but I made that back from the customer, as well as being able to snipe my way in last minute and get a good price. The total of bid and shipping still allowed me to make about $25 on the resale. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:05 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Gouging! Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your > advices > > > At 10:23 AM 4/24/01 -0400, Larry wrote: > > > > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling > >charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. > > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. > > > > This isn't confined to E-bay. This is common practice (at least in the > US). In fact, MANY times when you mail order stuff you're not even getting > it from the distributer/manufacturer. Many of them have agreements with an > outside company whereby the other company stores it in their own warehouse > and handles all the packing and shipping in return for those fat "handling > and shipping charges". It's not a practice that I approve of. I feel like > I'm paying twice for something. > > FWIW Everytime that I see anything about "handling or shipping charges" > on an auction, I e-mail the seller and ask for the exact charge BEFORE I > will bid on their item. Many times I do not bid on an item specificly > because I feel that their charges are excessive or because they fail to > reply to my questions. > > There are some bargains on E-bay but you really have to pay > attention to > the details! > > Joe > From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 12:04:13 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <20010424163839.41897.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Okay I looked quick and "assumed" it was a 25, might be a 23...I completely forgot that it might be video. I guess they are made strictly for Commodore brand monitors... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of steve > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:39 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > > Hi! > > Are you sure it's not a 23 pin D connector? If so, it > a video cable for the monitor. > > Steve > > > --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a > > stereotypical Commodore > > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug > > on the end - but only on > > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I > > know it's factory as the > > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into > > it. > > > > Anyone know the function of this cable? Is it > > possibly a factory cable to > > allow connection to a PC serial port with Commodore > > peripherals, or PC > > peripherals to a Commodore port? Never seen one like > > this and I don't think > > I've heard of one like this. I know there's > > Commodore savvy people on this > > list and they'll know exactly what it's for. Any > > help is appreciated very > > much... > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 12:04:11 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply In-Reply-To: <20010424163650.6988.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is a fuse in many of them, mostly a soldered pigtail type. You might (carefully) locate it and (with power disconnected) desolder one side and run a continuity test of the fuse. Another thing to test is the paddle switch for continuity. If it's the fuse then go to a local TV shop or Radio Shack and get a replacement of the same size. If it's the paddle switch many places still have replacements - takes about 5 mins to replace and costs about $4. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of steve > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:37 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply > > > Hi! > > I am testing the PS while still installed in the 5155. > There are no voltages going to the motherboard. > > I don't have any experience in fixing these things, > although I'm guessing that it's some power transistor > that's gone out. > > Steve. > > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The PS in my IBM Portable seems to be dead. > > > > How are you testing it? Most IBM PC PSUs of that > > period need a load > > before they will start up. The PSU on its own will > > appear to give no outputs. > > > > > > > > > > I would appreciate it if someone could send me a > > new > > > PS! > > > > Would you be interested in having a go at repairing > > the existing PSU. > > From what I remember it's a fairly conventional > > SMPSU, similar to the one > > in the PC/XT machine. You'll need bristol spline > > keys and tamperproof > > torx drivers to get inside, though, and at least a > > multimeter for > > troubleshooting (a 'scope and isolating transformer > > are useful!). You'll > > need the bristol spline keys to get the whole PSU > > unit out of the 5155, BTW. > > > > If you do decide to go inside, remeber there are > > dangerous voltages in > > there. Much of the circuitry is not isolated from > > the power line. And > > there are capacitors that charge up to a total of > > 400V (and when the unit > > is operational, that circuit can easily supply > > enough current to kill > > you!). Take great care if you do pull the cover. > > > > -tony > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 12:05:16 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <3AE5AD99.C995EF25@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: Steve brought up a point I didn't think of - that it's probably a 23 pin d-sub (I didn't count them) and is probably for a monitor. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gunther Schadow > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:45 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > > Russ Blakeman wrote: > > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a stereotypical > Commodore > > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug on the end - > but only on > > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I know it's > factory as the > > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into it. > > > > Anyone know the function of this cable? > > This does sound like a serial cable to connect to a modem ... although, > wouldn't a DCE device want a D25 male plug? Well, I guess you can easily > find this out if you test the connectivity of the pins on either end. > I still have my C64 manual at home, so I can look up what you should > expect to see with the serial cable. > > regards > -Gunther From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 24 12:08:46 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <3AE5AC7D.6A015039@aurora.regenstrief.org> from Gunther Schadow at "Apr 24, 1 04:40:29 pm" Message-ID: <200104241708.KAA07794@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > > > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > > > to work with? > > > > PETs, of course! And any Commodore with an IEEE-488 interface, even the 64 > > if you happen to have an IEEE interface cartridge. > > Do you call all the CBM computers "PET"? I started my computing carreer > on a PET, it had a built-in cassette recorder and a really bad keyboard. > I never used a floppy with a PET. That sounds suspiciously like a 2001, and yes, all the original CBM series computers are PETs (2000, 3000, 4000 and 8000 series). The CBM-II machines aren't, strictly speaking, PETs even though they were intended as successors. > I have a 1541 floppy drive and a C=64 that doesn't work any more. Where > could one get a C=64? Goodness, you must live in a cave. :-) I see them in thrifts around here at an alarming rate. eBay has trillions. > I even read something about connecting a 1541 to the PC. http://sta.c64.org/ > The > problem with those emulators is they want a BASIC and KERNEL ROM image. You must be using a very old version of the emulator in question. Virtually all current versions, even oldies-but-goodies like C64S, come with ROM images. For X your best choice is VICE (second choice, Frodo). > Will my 20 years old diskettes still > work? I once wrote a program to backup floppies to cassette tape using > turbo tape. My first macro-assembler project. Did it for a friend, worked > like a charm. Unfortunately I didn't back up anything myself :-( It depends on how well they have been stored. Most of my disks still work but there is a rumour that 'bitrot' will start kicking in about 15 years or so after original writing. I have briefly toyed with writing a utility that goes through the tracks on a Commodore disk, reads the track off, formats the track (to ensure that the GCR headers are rewritten as well), and writes the data back on. This will not work for custom formats like V-Max! or Rapidlok, or for tracks/sectors with deliberate soft errors, but only for standard Commodore DOS 2.6 35-track GCR. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If G. B. Shaw were a surrealist, he'd be writing plays about ghoti. -------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 24 12:09:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010424115357.3aa7fedc@mailhost.intellistar.net> from Joe at "Apr 24, 1 11:53:57 am" Message-ID: <200104241709.KAA12156@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >PETs, of course! > > Any PET? I have an 8032 in DEEP storage. Larry Anderson is the real expert on this list (tip of the hat), but that should work. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The reader this message encounters not failing to understand is cursed. ---- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 24 12:14:43 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: from Russ Blakeman at "Apr 24, 1 09:22:00 am" Message-ID: <200104241714.KAA07836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a stereotypical Commodore > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug on the end - but only on > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I know it's factory as the > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into it. The only Commodore factory cables with 25-pin DSUB connectors are the SX-64 keyboard cables, and the terminal end of the C128D keyboard connector. However, the SX-64 keyboard cable is 25-pin on both ends, and the 128D keyboard connector is a part of the keyboard. I've never heard of any others that Commodore themselves manufactured. The thing that this sounds most like is a standard X1541 cable but Commodore never made those themselves. If it is, the connection is between a PC LPT port and the disk drive. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From optimus at canit.se Tue Apr 24 12:58:59 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Amiga Ethernet 9pin network card In-Reply-To: <200104241531.f3OFVLj14248@bg-tc-ppp1469.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <789.514T2950T11386163optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup >> brought a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind >> of NIC. It dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by >> small" or something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky >> relay. The D9 is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device >> and chained to hte next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR >> the word RING screened onto the PCB. >Sounds like standard token-ring to me. I've found the possibility of an Amiga TR NIC so impossible that I never considered that. Are you certain? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 24 12:15:48 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <3AE5AD99.C995EF25@aurora.regenstrief.org> from Gunther Schadow at "Apr 24, 1 04:45:13 pm" Message-ID: <200104241715.KAA10150@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This does sound like a serial cable to connect to a modem ... although, > wouldn't a DCE device want a D25 male plug? Well, I guess you can easily > find this out if you test the connectivity of the pins on either end. > I still have my C64 manual at home, so I can look up what you should > expect to see with the serial cable. Won't work -- common misconception is that the Commodore serial bus connects things like modems. Presumably it could, but it's normally used for disk drives and printers. Most Commodore native modems connected to the user port in some way, either through an RS-232 interface or directly. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't walk a mile in their shoes. They smell funny. ---------------------- From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 12:41:17 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <200104241714.KAA07836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Couldn't be for the LPT port on a PC as it's female and the LPT is also female. Steve's suggestion of it being a video cable is probably correct - I'll have to see if it is 23 or 25 pin on the d-sub side. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cameron Kaiser > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 12:15 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > > > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a stereotypical > Commodore > > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug on the end - > but only on > > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I know it's > factory as the > > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into it. > > The only Commodore factory cables with 25-pin DSUB connectors are > the SX-64 > keyboard cables, and the terminal end of the C128D keyboard connector. > However, the SX-64 keyboard cable is 25-pin on both ends, and the 128D > keyboard connector is a part of the keyboard. I've never heard of > any others > that Commodore themselves manufactured. > > The thing that this sounds most like is a standard X1541 cable > but Commodore > never made those themselves. If it is, the connection is between a PC LPT > port and the disk drive. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a > bloody pulp. ------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 12:43:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104240129.f3O1Tcw26175@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 23, 1 08:29:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/7c8477e7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 12:48:43 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive In-Reply-To: <3AE4E822.D7F5E2D@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 23, 1 10:42:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 854 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/f6d67f5f/attachment.ksh From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Apr 24 12:53:55 2001 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? References: Message-ID: <012d01c0cce7$884f8b80$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ Blakeman" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 11:05 AM Subject: RE: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > Steve brought up a point I didn't think of - that it's probably a 23 pin > d-sub (I didn't count them) and is probably for a monitor. > At one point, the Amiga 1084S RGB monitor was so widely used, and the number of different video port connectors used by Commodore so large, that many 1084s shipped with 6 or 7 different cables in the box. Mine came that way, and the extra cables have certainly come in handy as I added VICs and C-64s to the collection. Why CBM didn't standardize on one or two connector types and simplify their manufacturing and distribution I'll never know. Cheers, Mark. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Apr 24 13:00:23 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: References: <200104241714.KAA07836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424125908.01eeeee0@pc> At 12:41 PM 4/24/01 -0500, you wrote: >Couldn't be for the LPT port on a PC as it's female and the LPT is also >female. Steve's suggestion of it being a video cable is probably correct - >I'll have to see if it is 23 or 25 pin on the d-sub side. It could be for an Amiga parallel port, to connect to a 1541 disk drive. The Amiga's parallel port was bidirectional (allowing things like the DigiView to feed data into the computer) and several companies made software and hardware to handle 1541s on the Amiga. I don't think CBM itself ever did it, though... - John From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 13:31:48 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424125908.01eeeee0@pc> Message-ID: Just recounted and it IS a 23 pin d-sub so the winner is Steve for his description that it is a video cable. Thanks everyone that contributed. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:00 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > > At 12:41 PM 4/24/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Couldn't be for the LPT port on a PC as it's female and the LPT is also > >female. Steve's suggestion of it being a video cable is probably > correct - > >I'll have to see if it is 23 or 25 pin on the d-sub side. > > It could be for an Amiga parallel port, to connect to a 1541 disk drive. > The Amiga's parallel port was bidirectional (allowing things > like the DigiView to feed data into the computer) and several > companies made software and hardware to handle 1541s on the > Amiga. I don't think CBM itself ever did it, though... > > - John > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 12:54:38 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010424072740.01d0f4d0@pc> from "John Foust" at Apr 24, 1 07:35:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1190 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/c3c4d128/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 12:57:30 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Apr 24, 1 09:22:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/199f90dd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 13:04:05 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <43.140579df.2816eaaa@aol.com> from "Innfogra@aol.com" at Apr 24, 1 10:41:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/04d1788e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 13:22:33 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Need IBM Portable 5155 power supply In-Reply-To: <20010424163650.6988.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "steve" at Apr 24, 1 09:36:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2706 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/68531fbc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 13:24:20 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20010424115357.3aa7fedc@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Apr 24, 1 11:53:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 505 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/55dffe5a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 13:27:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <200104241714.KAA07836@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Apr 24, 1 10:14:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/2368cb95/attachment.ksh From claudew at videotron.ca Tue Apr 24 13:38:07 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom Message-ID: <01ef01c0cced$b4b8cfa0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Hi all I am in the process of finishing my spring cleanup and I am giving a RS6000 7012 320H powerserver its very last chance to see if I can get it to do anything usefull. I think I have mentionned this machine here before, still I am looking for some help on this. The machine is probably all ok. It was booting of the HDs with the original AIX when I got it and still will boot with the diags floppy disks for RS6000 and I can "talk" to it from a terminal connected to the 1st serial port....The HDs were taken out a bit later and the machine was left sitting in a corner for a long time. Machine has 80 Megs RAM, SCSI card...the hardware is acting ok. I dont have the keyboard, graphics card or monitor so I am woking this thing from the terminal connected to the serial port. I have AIX on 2 cd's they say ENTRY SERVERS R4.2.1. I checked on my Linux box and the files are there and the cds are readable. I have connected a Pionner DR-706S drive on the SCSI chain and also added one of the original HDs (was flushed of original AIX and used somewhere else) with a different ID on the chain. Chain is terminated at the end. I am trying to get this thing to do something usefull by re-installing AIX. I cant get it to boot AIX and install off the CDrom. I tried the CDrom at ids 5 and 6 (suggested in some AIX newsgroup posts for similar situations) The CD is configured for 512 byte block size... its a Pionner. I know that some CDROMs will not boot these RS6000 but is the only issue the block size? I have heard that Plextors, Pionner and original IBMs will boot these Rs6000. I have older toshibas and DEC that should support 512 blocks, should l I try these or its hopeless? I did put the machine in service mode...I did try to disconnect the battery to reset the bootlist. What is happenning now with HD and CDROM connected is machine goes through post and displays 253 then looks like it goes into a never ending loop of resetting the SCSI bus about every 2 or 3 minute or so. I can see the leds on both the HD and the cdrom flicker (cdrom also spins up and led flashes briefly every 2 -3 minutes or so) so I am suspecting that the RS6000 is seeing something on the SCSI bus and the machine is looking for something to boot with. I suspect it sees the devices because without the HD connected, it will go through post and then the floppy led will flash every few seconds waiting for the boot/diag floppies. I suppose it does not see any SCSI devices so it abandons booting from those and expects some floppies... The Pionner CDROM alone on the SCSI chain will result in the machine expecting floppies...so now I wonder if the CDROM is being seen at all... Ideas anyone? Thanks Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 24 13:47:04 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: Innfogra@aol.com "Re: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for?" (Apr 24, 10:41) References: <43.140579df.2816eaaa@aol.com> Message-ID: <10104241947.ZM27164@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 24, 10:41, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/24/2001 6:48:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > > > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > > to work with? > It should work on any Commodore with a GPIB port. This was usually traces > brought out to the Circuit card edge for an edge connector to connect with. > Edge connector on one end and GPIB on the other end. Not *quite* any PET. It won't work with early PET 2001 series that still have original ROMs, because there are bugs in the IEEE-488 routines (printers work, but not much else). That's why I want a two-ROM-set piggyback board for mine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Tue Apr 24 12:52:46 2001 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Marian Capel & Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX Message-ID: <00ba01c0cce7$5f76b260$2766fea9@marianca> -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradford To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX > >http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg >http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-switches.jpg > >Bill > Does the drive come with or without the cat ? Jos Dreesen From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Apr 24 13:57:10 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010424185710.65917.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> An Amiga computer video cable, to be precise. --- Russ Blakeman wrote: > Just recounted and it IS a 23 pin d-sub so the > winner is Steve for his > description that it is a video cable. Thanks > everyone that contributed. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf > Of John Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:00 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: RE: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is > this???? > > > > > > At 12:41 PM 4/24/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >Couldn't be for the LPT port on a PC as it's > female and the LPT is also > > >female. Steve's suggestion of it being a video > cable is probably > > correct - > > >I'll have to see if it is 23 or 25 pin on the > d-sub side. > > > > It could be for an Amiga parallel port, to connect > to a 1541 disk drive. > > The Amiga's parallel port was bidirectional > (allowing things > > like the DigiView to feed data into the computer) > and several > > companies made software and hardware to handle > 1541s on the > > Amiga. I don't think CBM itself ever did it, > though... > > > > - John > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Tue Apr 24 13:58:43 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <3AE5AC7D.6A015039@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <01Apr24.150813edt.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> On Tuesday, April 24, 2001, at 12:40 PM, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Do you call all the CBM computers "PET"? I started my computing carreer > on a PET, it had a built-in cassette recorder and a really bad keyboard. > I never used a floppy with a PET. That'd be the original 2001 4k or 8k machines. I have a CBM 4040 disk drive with my 2001-16N PET. There are a number of non-PET CBM machines, such as the C-64 and 128 series machines, as well as the short lived C-16 and PLUS/4. Jeff From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Apr 24 13:59:33 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Partially garbled screen means what? Message-ID: <20010424185933.31354.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have a few computers - C64, TI-99/4, that power-up with garbled characters on the screen. Otherwise, they seem to function correctly. What does this indicate? Bad RAM? Bad ROM? Thanks! Steve __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 24 14:14:33 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Amiga Ethernet 9pin network card In-Reply-To: <789.514T2950T11386163optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 24, 2001 06:58:59 pm" Message-ID: <200104241914.f3OJEX414737@bg-tc-ppp431.monmouth.com> > Bill Pechter skrev: > > >> BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup > >> brought a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind > >> of NIC. It dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by > >> small" or something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky > >> relay. The D9 is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device > >> and chained to hte next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR > >> the word RING screened onto the PCB. > > >Sounds like standard token-ring to me. > > I've found the possibility of an Amiga TR NIC so impossible that I never > considered that. Are you certain? Well, they used DB9 connectors, used relays into the MAU (the token-ring hub equivalent), the word Ring on the PCB. Sounds possible. A lot of cable tv shops used IBM S34/S36/S38's for billing and records. They also used Amiga's for Video slide generation for their add and notices chanels. So I figured they may have had Token-Ring boards for the Amiga. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From rdd at smart.net Tue Apr 24 14:14:53 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <10104241947.ZM27164@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Apr 24, 10:41, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/24/2001 6:48:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > > > I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > > interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > > to work with? > have original ROMs, because there are bugs in the IEEE-488 routines > (printers work, but not much else). That's why I want a two-ROM-set > piggyback board for mine. > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 24 14:21:08 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: SunOS 4.1.x binaries In-Reply-To: <200104241525.IAA29229@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Apr 24, 2001 08:25:38 am" Message-ID: <200104241921.f3OJL8614851@bg-tc-ppp431.monmouth.com> > > > I've never had a problem with using a 4.1.3 binary on earlier 4.1.X. Looking > > > at my gcc distribution. I've put a distribution at > > > http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/~korpela/gcc_sunos_4_1.tar.gz > > > It extracts to a subdirectory (gnu). The executable directory is > > > gnu/H-sparc-sun-sunos4.1/bin > > > > The only issue is with some dynamically linked libraries (linked > > against shared libraries that don't exist.... > > > > Some symlinks usually fix that. > > I'm surprised that the directories are hard coded in the executable. Usually > LD_LIBRARY_PATH is searched, so you can add library directories to that. > > Eric When stuff's linked against libjnk.so.4.1 it doesn't necessarily work with libjnk.so.4.0 if the features in the .o file change. I loved rebuilding SunOS 4.1.x with the newer internet resolver stuff from resolv+ and rebuilding Sun's libc... One mistake and everything's history and you're loading the miniroot to put back the original. The trick is having static linked ls, cp, mv in a subdirectory off / ... Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 24 14:23:10 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom In-Reply-To: <01ef01c0cced$b4b8cfa0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> from "Claude.W" at "Apr 24, 2001 02:38:07 pm" Message-ID: <200104241923.f3OJNAP14901@bg-tc-ppp431.monmouth.com> > Hi all > > I can see the leds on both the HD and the cdrom flicker (cdrom also spins up > and led flashes briefly every 2 -3 minutes or so) so I am suspecting that > the RS6000 is seeing something on the SCSI bus and the machine is looking > for something to boot with. > > Thanks > Claude > http://computer_collector.tripod.com Is the 320H supported in 4.2... I though they were only through 4.1.x Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From elecdata at kcinter.net Tue Apr 24 14:36:37 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:40 2005 Subject: Partially garbled screen means what? References: <20010424185933.31354.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3AE5D5C5.C1D64631@kcinter.net> Hi Steve, on the commodore, the color is okay? if so then you probably have a defective video ram I believe it is a 2114. I would also check for ripple on the 5 vdc line, or if it is high or low. if so you may have bigger problems than are apparent. Bill steve wrote: > Hi, > > I have a few computers - C64, TI-99/4, that power-up > with garbled characters on the screen. > > Otherwise, they seem to function correctly. > > What does this indicate? > > Bad RAM? > Bad ROM? > > Thanks! > Steve > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Apr 24 14:36:59 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <00ba01c0cce7$5f76b260$2766fea9@marianca>; from jos.mar@bluewin.ch on Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:52:46PM +0200 References: <00ba01c0cce7$5f76b260$2766fea9@marianca> Message-ID: <20010424143659.P20299@mrbill.net> On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:52:46PM +0200, Marian Capel & Jos Dreesen wrote: > >http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg > Does the drive come with or without the cat ? Without. He likes to step on keyboards, you dont want him. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 24 14:45:45 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom In-Reply-To: <01ef01c0cced$b4b8cfa0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: Is it possible that you have to boot off of a floppy, then install off of the CD? I don't know about that version of AIX but some of the older versions needed that. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Claude.W wrote: > Hi all > > I am in the process of finishing my spring cleanup and I am giving a RS6000 > 7012 320H powerserver its very last chance to see if I can get it to do > anything usefull. I think I have mentionned this machine here before, still > I am looking for some help on this. > > The machine is probably all ok. It was booting of the HDs with the original > AIX when I got it and still will boot with the diags floppy disks for RS6000 > and I can "talk" to it from a terminal connected to the 1st serial > port....The HDs were taken out a bit later and the machine was left sitting > in a corner for a long time. Machine has 80 Megs RAM, SCSI card...the > hardware is acting ok. I dont have the keyboard, graphics card or monitor so > I am woking this thing from the terminal connected to the serial port. > > I have AIX on 2 cd's they say ENTRY SERVERS R4.2.1. I checked on my Linux > box and the files are there and the cds are readable. > > I have connected a Pionner DR-706S drive on the SCSI chain and also added > one of the original HDs (was flushed of original AIX and used somewhere > else) with a different ID on the chain. Chain is terminated at the end. > > I am trying to get this thing to do something usefull by re-installing AIX. > > I cant get it to boot AIX and install off the CDrom. > > I tried the CDrom at ids 5 and 6 (suggested in some AIX newsgroup posts for > similar situations) > > The CD is configured for 512 byte block size... its a Pionner. I know that > some CDROMs will not boot these RS6000 but is the only issue the block size? > I have heard that Plextors, Pionner and original IBMs will boot these > Rs6000. I have older toshibas and DEC that should support 512 blocks, should > l I try these or its hopeless? > > I did put the machine in service mode...I did try to disconnect the battery > to reset the bootlist. > > What is happenning now with HD and CDROM connected is machine goes through > post and displays 253 then looks like it goes into a never ending loop of > resetting the SCSI bus about every 2 or 3 minute or so. > > I can see the leds on both the HD and the cdrom flicker (cdrom also spins up > and led flashes briefly every 2 -3 minutes or so) so I am suspecting that > the RS6000 is seeing something on the SCSI bus and the machine is looking > for something to boot with. > > I suspect it sees the devices because without the HD connected, it will go > through post and then the floppy led will flash every few seconds waiting > for the boot/diag floppies. I suppose it does not see any SCSI devices so it > abandons booting from those and expects some floppies... > > The Pionner CDROM alone on the SCSI chain will result in the machine > expecting floppies...so now I wonder if the CDROM is being seen at all... > > Ideas anyone? > > Thanks > Claude > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > > > > From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Apr 24 14:45:17 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: rs6000 cd scsi boot problem Message-ID: Sorry, I deleted the original message on getting the rs/6000 to boot from CD rom but intended to reply The author mentioned a code 253, this is supposed to be "Attempting a service mode IPL from SCSI attached devices specified in the ROM device list" The AIX manual lists the following steps to boot from installation media seems like obvious stuff you've probably already done 1) turn on external devices 2) switch to service mode 3) installation media in cd drive 4) turn on rs6k 5) eventually you should get bos install menu I could not find any mention of required scsi ID's for the CDROM. Here is portions of the bootlist man page which might be helpful Description The bootlist command allows the user to alter the list of boot devices scanned by read-only-storage (ROS) when the system is booted. This command can alter the contents of the two battery backed-up RAM (NVRAM) boot device lists and the choice of boot device used on the next and subsequent system boots. This command supports the updating of the following: * Service boot list. The service list designates possible boot devices when the front panel keylock is in the Service position. * Normal boot list. The normal list is used when the keylock is in the Normal position. * Previous boot device entry. Retained in battery-backed-up RAM on the system unit. Each list contains a maximum of 84 bytes. When searching for a boot device, the ROS system selects the first device in the list and determines if it is bootable. If no boot file system is detected on the first device, ROS moves on to the next device in the list. As a result, the ordering of devices in the device list is extremely important. If no device list has been supplied, or if it was empty, the ROS system attempts to boot from the boot device used on a previous boot. (This assumes that the previous boot device was not a diskette drive.) If this boot device is unavailable or not bootable, the ROS system starts searching the I/O bus for the first device from which it can boot. The bootlist command supports the specification of generic device types as well as specific devices for boot candidates. Possible device names are listed either on the command line or in a file. Devices in the boot device list occur in the same order as devices listed the invocation of this command. Device Choices The device name specified on the command line (or in a file) can occur in one of two different forms: * It can indicate a specific device by its device logical name. * It can indicate a generic or special device type by keyword. The following generic device keywords are supported: fd Any standard I/O-attached diskette drive scdisk Any SCSI-attached disk (including serial-link disk drives) badisk Any direct bus-attached disk (Model 320 only) cd Any SCSI-attached CD-ROM rmt Any SCSI-attached tape device ent Any Ethernet adapter tok Any Token-Ring adapter fddi Any Fiber Distributed Data Interface adapter When a specific device is to be included in the device list, the device's logical name (used with system management commands) must be specified. This logical name is made up of a prefix and a suffix. The suffix is generally a number and designates the specific device. The specified device must be in the Available state. If it is not, the update to the device list is rejected and this command fails. The following devices and their associated logical names are supported (where the bold type is the prefix and the xx variable is the device-specific suffix): fdxx Diskette-drive device logical names hdiskxx Physical-volume device logical names cdxx SCSI CD-ROM device logical names rmtxx Magnetic-tape device logical names entxx Ethernet-adapter logical names tokxx Token-ring adapter logical names fddixx Fiber Distributed Data Interface adapter logical names Attention: Care must be taken in specifying the possible boot devices. A future reboot in Normal mode may fail if the devices specified in the device list become unbootable. A diskette boot is always available when the keylock is in the Service position. The system must not be powered off or reset during the operation of the bootlist command. If the system is reset, or power fails at a critical point in the execution of this command, a checksum error can cause the system setup information in battery-backed-up RAM to be lost. The file specified by the file variable should contain device names separated by white space: hdisk0 hdisk1 cd1 or one device per line: hdisk0 hdisk1 cd1 -- From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Apr 24 14:47:52 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom In-Reply-To: <200104241923.f3OJNAP14901@bg-tc-ppp431.monmouth.com> Message-ID: I recall there was sgabus graphics card which became unsupported. Supposedly if you did not have that card the rest of the system would work. On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > Is the 320H supported in 4.2... I though they were only through 4.1.x > > Bill > -- From enrico.badella at softstar.it Tue Apr 24 14:49:49 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom References: <01ef01c0cced$b4b8cfa0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <3AE5D8DD.8DE393CE@softstar.it> "Claude.W" wrote: > > Hi all > > I am in the process of finishing my spring cleanup and I am giving a RS6000 > 7012 320H powerserver its very last chance to see if I can get it to do > anything usefull. I think I have mentionned this machine here before, still > I am looking for some help on this. > > The machine is probably all ok. It was booting of the HDs with the original > AIX when I got it and still will boot with the diags floppy disks for RS6000 > and I can "talk" to it from a terminal connected to the 1st serial > port....The HDs were taken out a bit later and the machine was left sitting > in a corner for a long time. Machine has 80 Megs RAM, SCSI card...the WOW 80MB Ram, mine has only 32 :-( > hardware is acting ok. I dont have the keyboard, graphics card or monitor so > I am woking this thing from the terminal connected to the serial port. > > I have AIX on 2 cd's they say ENTRY SERVERS R4.2.1. I checked on my Linux > box and the files are there and the cds are readable. I tried all the cd players I had Matshita, Pioneer, Sony (ex Sun) and even IBM. All on SCSI ID 6 512 bytes/sector none ever worked except the Toshiba I pulled out of a RS6000 7013/59H. With this I installed 4.2.1 then maye a mksysb tape. I could never explain why the 320H is so picky about CDs e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 14:57:12 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 06:43:47 PM Message-ID: <200104241957.f3OJvC731399@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Provided they have an EPROM blower (not everyone does...), and you give > them a hex dump of the firmware. Even then they don't get things like the > oriignal DEC label for the EPROM. Maintaining original labels is going to be hard to do, as the EPROMs age. I've already had to refresh some EPROMs from equipment as recent as 1982. > > > But for common, still-easy-to-get parts, I'd rather buy them new than > > > strip them out of a classic computer. > > > > Some things aren't worth preserving, like the RRD40. > > I beg to differ on that point. I cna't think of a single piece of classic > computer equipment that isn't wanted somewhere by somebody. I've obtained > some very rare items with the comment 'I am supprised anyone would be > interested in _that_'. That may be true, but one person replied that I could have stripped an IBM PC-compatible SCSI controller to get the same SCSI IC I got from the RRD40 adapter. Why not preserve all those, too, as one day someone will consider those parts classic as well. > You can bet there's a collector who is trying to get one of every model > of DEC storage device or something who will want an RRD40. That may be the case, but where do we draw the line? Of course one man's trash is another man's treasure, but will everything be worth keeping? And how do we justify what we restore and cannibalized? For instance, the MVII I am converting to a PDP-11. I've had good feedback on the conversion, but nobody has said to me that I should keep the MVII intact and sell it complete and buy a complete PDP-11 or all the parts. For the RRD40 drives, I offered them, with the controller board thrown in, but the drives in no way require the controller board to operate. The drives were normally sold to be used with the RRD50 controller; the SCSI adapter boards were just a kludge to get the drives to work with SCSI controllers. I took them out of the Infoserver 100 and replaced them with compatible SCSI CDROM drives so I could have a functioning system. Should I have kept the Infoserver 100 pure instead? That would have meant the Infoserver 100 would have been a paperweight for me, when instead I could use it in my network. I was also able to use the three socketed ICs to restore some other classic equipment. Sure, I could have bought the parts I needed, but I had them available in a socketed board that I would otherwise not have used, so using the parts made sense. I don't believe in cannibalizing special or rare items. Otherwise, I would not have preserved the Burroughs E6000 system complete that I have, which I've already found someone willing to retrieve and restore. You can bet there's a lot of gold in that system, but I would rather have it preserved than scrapped. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 24 14:57:12 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> <3AE55418.8573.BDF329C@localhost> Message-ID: <3AE5DA98.DB2A00E@internet1.net> Lawrence Walker wrote: > Why do US sellers ask for your ZIP code ? Thats how we know where you live. Cost might not vary as much with International shipping, by zip code, but I would think that a zip from Vancouver would cost more than a zip from Toronto, for me. > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling > charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. This only really irritates me when I get the package and it is packed badly. I bought an Apple //gs from a guy on Ebay that sort of did that to me. He was a big seller, that already had the box packed before the auction started, I guess. I didn't need the 5.25" floppy drive, becasue I already had one. I told him that he could keep it, so I wouldn't have to pay as much in shipping.... mind you I didn't ask to pay less than the final bid price... just a smaller shipping cost to reflect the weight of the drive that he got to keep. He wanted to charge me something like $40 an hour to repack the box!! I figured well, he must do a really good job packing everything just so. I told him, forget it, just send it as is. I recived a huge box packed loosely, with all items just tossed in with peanuts!!!! I was so mad. It couldn't have taken him any time at all to pack the box, nothing was really protected, he didn't even do anything to prevent penuts from getting into the floppy drives! On top of that the computer was very abused. For some reason, I didn't leave negative feedback, I can't remember why, Though. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 24 15:06:46 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive References: Message-ID: <3AE5DCD6.C842B947@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: > There was also bipolar memory (also made from integrated circuits, but > ones using bipolar transistors, not MOSFETs). This was much lower density > and higher power consumption than MOS, but it was also faster (IIRC a > PDP11/45 with bipolar memory was about twice as fast as one using MOS > memory). Oh just what I would need a Manic Depressive computer :-) > Of course modern MOS memory is a lot faster than that old bipolar memory... > > > some of my old audio equipment that boasts of its transistors :-) > > 'Old' audio equipment uses valves... Ok well, How about "Older" and all my valves are in my truck... all 16 of them :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 24 15:16:43 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX References: <00ba01c0cce7$5f76b260$2766fea9@marianca> Message-ID: <3AE5DF2B.51EB2C86@internet1.net> It looked, to me, that was just the "tail/hind quarters kit", not a complete cat. Maybe you could find the rest in usenet... alt.pets.cat.kits.forsale I have seen cat "front end" and "head" kits forsale occasioanlly. If you can't find a matching color, for that older mdel, dyeing the outer covering can be done. Although it may up the cost enough to make it cheaper to just go ahead and buy a new one. YMMV Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Marian Capel & Jos Dreesen wrote: > Does the drive come with or without the cat ? > > Jos Dreesen From optimus at canit.se Tue Apr 24 16:19:29 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: 3Mb Ethernet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1160.514T1450T13395123optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> I also found a Hydra rev 1.0 Ethernet card for the A2000. >> I've always thought it was unusual because it as two BNC >> as well as an AUI port. Can anyone else remember Ethernet >> cards with two BNC like this? Were 10base2 "T" connectors rare? >> I believe Hydra was a UK company, if that matters. >The Inmos B407 ethernet TRAM is a bit like that. It's got 2 SMB >connectors and a couple of cables that plug into them and have BNCs on >the other end. I don't know what a TRAM is, but now that I think of it, I've got an Apple AAUI transceiver which works in this fashion as well as an ancient one from Bull. Had it plugged into a pocket 10BaseT hub, and the transceiver actually dwarfed the hub. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. There is also a high quality Fortran from DEC for our engineers, and of course the whole C and LISP programming environments for CS students and other software developers, plus a set of powerful text manipulation utilities like sed, grep, awk, lex, and yacc, whose functions should be obvious from their names. Frank da Cruz & Christine Gianone - "THE DECSYSTEM-20 AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY (1977-1988)" From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Apr 24 14:33:09 2001 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free (or price of shipping) Stuff -- Part 1 Message-ID: Hello all, I have the following stuff available, free for local pickup in North Central Massachusetts, USA, or for cost of shipping to the world (US Postal service ONLY). Of course, if you want to offer real money, that's fine too :-), but as you will see, there isn't too much here worth anything ... I'm moving at the end of May, and don't feel like moving these things... There will be more later... - Commodore 64 CP/M 2.2 - Cart, manual, disk, original box - Qty. 3 Apple IIc -- From an old school district, dirty, engraved, yellowed. Boot DOS 3.3, no power supplies - Commodore C-64C -- Yellowed, but functional -- bare computer - Commodore 1530 Datasette unit model C2N -- untested, original box - Commodore Modem 1200 -- Model 1670 -- no box or manual - Thunderchopper game for C64/128 -- manual, disk, no box - Apple Joystick for IIe/IIc, Model # A2M2012 - Apple TV Switch Box for Apple IIc - TI Joysticks for TI-99, # PHP1100 - Qty. 2 Multi-cassette recorder cables for TI-99 - DEFCON 5 game for C-64/128 -- disk, manual,box - IFR (Flight sim game) for C-64 -- disk, manual, no box - Commodore Video Cable (6-pin DIN marked "Monitor" to 8-pin DIN marked "Computer") - IBM Data Collection Terminal 7527 (RS-232, 422/485 ports, three other ports, possibly serial), no power supply (needs 26 VAC,.5A) - TI-99 software (NO boxes, cart and manual only): - Oldies But Goodies - Games I (cassette) - Star Trek by SEGA - Munch Man - Number Magic - Football - TI Invaders - Personal Real Estate - Statistics - Parsec - Multiplication I - Hangman - Blackjack and Poker Email me (OFF-LIST) your address and lists (first come, first served) and I will quote shipping. You must prepay shipping (PayPal, money order [US $ only], or cash [US $]). If you wish to pick up locally, let me know, and we can make arrangements (I'm about 1hr. west of Boston, or about 1 hr. north of Worcester). If you need an immediate reply, email me off-list, as I only get the digest... Rich B. From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 15:35:42 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE5DA98.DB2A00E@internet1.net> Message-ID: If the seller is shipping to USA, Canada, UK and some other odd places by UPS you have to have a zip (postal) code to calculate the shipping. If shipping by USPS to another country it doesn't matter, just the country. Seems real weird to me that if I sent a package by USPS from detroit to Windsor Ontario it would cost the same as shipping from the Keys on Florida to the NW territories - gotta wonder why people prefer UPS, FedEx, DHl and others over the postal service. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 2:57 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Why do US sellers ask for your ZIP code ? > > Thats how we know where you live. Cost might not vary as much with > International shipping, by zip code, but I would think that a zip from > Vancouver would cost more than a zip from Toronto, for me. > > > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling > > charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. > > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. > > > This only really irritates me when I get the package and it is packed > badly. I bought an Apple //gs from a guy on Ebay that sort of did that > to me. He was a big seller, that already had the box packed before the > auction started, I guess. I didn't need the 5.25" floppy drive, becasue > I already had one. I told him that he could keep it, so I wouldn't have > to pay as much in shipping.... mind you I didn't ask to pay less than > the final bid price... just a smaller shipping cost to reflect the > weight of the drive that he got to keep. He wanted to charge me > something like $40 an hour to repack the box!! I figured well, he must > do a really good job packing everything just so. I told him, forget it, > just send it as is. I recived a huge box packed loosely, with all items > just tossed in with peanuts!!!! I was so mad. It couldn't have taken > him any time at all to pack the box, nothing was really protected, he > didn't even do anything to prevent penuts from getting into the floppy > drives! On top of that the computer was very abused. For some reason, > I didn't leave negative feedback, I can't remember why, Though. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA From ken at seefried.com Tue Apr 24 15:31:00 2001 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: X10 & RTs (was: IBM PGA) In-Reply-To: <200104241950.OAA72720@opal.tseinc.com> References: <200104241950.OAA72720@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <20010424203100.15572.qmail@mail.seefried.com> > > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > > We also had a couple of PC-RT's running > X10 as a windowing system as opposed to X11. > Wow...that brings back memories. Anyone else use X10 on a BellTech BLIT card under System V/386? Quirky Intel video processor & all. I still see people using the cheapo BellTech HUB6 cards. How many have the 8530s unsoldered and replaced with 16550s... Anyone else use Dell System VR4/386? That was a really nice distro. Much nicer than Everex, AT&T, Microport, et. al. Yes kids...there was time when *nix on the i386 wasn't free. > > And a couple XTs running some Unix version (PCIX?) > I seem to recall PC/IX. Didn't Venix run on them as well? Anyone else remeber Venix? > > I need to stop the nostalgia now or I'll break into a rousing rendition of > "Where have all the RTs gone?" > Ack. No. I'm sure they are in the same place all of the other technicalliny interesting, ultimately quirky, underpowered, overpriced & poorly marketed hardware is. Ken Seefried, CISSP From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 24 15:37:02 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for?" (Apr 24, 19:24) References: Message-ID: <10104242137.ZM27325@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 24, 19:24, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > At 07:22 AM 4/24/01 -0700, Cameron wrote: > > >> I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > > >> interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > > >> to work with? > > > > > >PETs, of course! > > > > Any PET? I have an 8032 in DEEP storage. > > I use an 8050 on my 8032SK, and it works fine. The 8032SK is an 8032 > logic board in a plastic case with a separate keyboard. So as far as I > know, the 8050 will work with the normal 8032 as well. I can confirm that it does (well, mine does). Any PET with Revision 3 or later ROMs does. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Apr 24 15:42:34 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom In-Reply-To: Enrico Badella "Re: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom" (Apr 24, 21:49) References: <01ef01c0cced$b4b8cfa0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <3AE5D8DD.8DE393CE@softstar.it> Message-ID: <10104242142.ZM27329@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 24, 21:49, Enrico Badella wrote: > I tried all the cd players I had Matshita, Pioneer, Sony (ex Sun) > and even IBM. All on SCSI ID 6 512 bytes/sector none ever worked > except the Toshiba I pulled out of a RS6000 7013/59H. With this I > installed 4.2.1 then maye a mksysb tape. > > I could never explain why the 320H is so picky about CDs Ah, I've got one of those ex-RS/6000 Toshibas. I have the opposite problem -- it won't work on anything except an RS6000! It has custom firmware. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 15:42:01 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104241957.f3OJvC731399@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 24, 1 02:57:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/bda13b28/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 15:21:32 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Partially garbled screen means what? In-Reply-To: <20010424185933.31354.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> from "steve" at Apr 24, 1 11:59:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1126 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/c760ad39/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 15:25:46 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <20010424143659.P20299@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Apr 24, 1 02:36:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 429 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/e07e43ea/attachment.ksh From emu at ecubics.com Tue Apr 24 15:55:32 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: X10 & RTs (was: IBM PGA) References: <200104241950.OAA72720@opal.tseinc.com> <20010424203100.15572.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: <3AE5E844.85989F9F@ecubics.com> Ken Seefried wrote: > > Anyone else use Dell System VR4/386? That was a really nice distro. Much > nicer than Everex, AT&T, Microport, et. al. Yes kids...there was time when > *nix on the i386 wasn't free. Nope. But I liked Esix. Was fun, putting 150 floppies into the pc for installation ;-) After that, I ordered the updates on QIC150. cheers From kees.stravers at iae.nl Tue Apr 24 16:00:33 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives Message-ID: <20010424210033.3BD3420F6A@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-04-24 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >You can bet there's a collector who is trying to get one of every >model of DEC storage device or something who will want an RRD40. >-tony I have one and I am very happy with it. Why people are talking bad about it I can't understand. Sure it isn't fast and has a strange caddy, but it is _very_ reliable IMHO. Once the disk is in, you won't get any read errors or timeouts or some such. I have installed operating systems on several VAXstation 3100s with other SCSI drives and with the RRD40, but while with other old non-DEC SCSI drives I sooner or later always got read errors or timeouts, installing with my RRD40 always worked first time without problems. And don't forget it is one of the very first CDROM drives ever. DEC was a very early adopter of the CDROM technology developed by Philips. The CDROM mechanism inside the RRD40 is the first 5.25 form factor drive made. The caddy system was used because of that form, the box was too full to add a motorized drawer. The first drive after it that had a drawer instead of the caddy did not have a motor, you had to pull out the drawer by hand. Please cut the RRD40 a little slack. It is amazing it still works today, even when connected to modern controllers. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 24 16:06:30 2001 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? References: <3.0.1.16.20010424095513.091741ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20010424115357.3aa7fedc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001f01c0cd02$6f5d7b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There once was an outfit here in Denver that made their fortune with an adapter from the COMMODORE HPIB to the common Centronics printer port as used on the EPSON/OKIDATA cheapies used in the early '80's. I remember the guy who did it shortly after he got his first Porsche ... I wish I'd thought of that! Apparently Commodore thought a lot of the HPIB. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? > At 07:22 AM 4/24/01 -0700, Cameron wrote: > >> I just picked up a Commodore 8050M dual 5 1/4" disk drive with a HP-IB > >> interface in a surplus place. Can anyone tell me what system(s) it's made > >> to work with? > > > >PETs, of course! > > Any PET? I have an 8032 in DEEP storage. > > And any Commodore with an IEEE-488 interface, even the 64 > >if you happen to have an IEEE interface cartridge. > > Hmmm. that's interesting. I didn't know about that. > > Thanks, > Joe > > From hardwire at ptd.net Tue Apr 24 16:33:33 2001 From: hardwire at ptd.net (hardwire@ptd.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> <3AE55418.8573.BDF329C@localhost> <3AE5DA98.DB2A00E@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3AE5F12D.52601247@ptd.net> Chad Fernandez wrote: > > This only really irritates me when I get the package and it is packed > badly. The worst packing job I've ever seen in all of my 31 years was when I picked up a C64/1541 combo on EBay a few months back. The seller had run a little over 50 auctions at that time, not a lot, but usually more than enough for a few negative feedbacks to creep in. Anyway, this guy simply went to his local grocery store, got hold of a seriously flimsy cardboard box, and proceeded to place the computer and drive in the bottom of said box (in that order too). And that was it--no packing material what-so-ever!!! (I guess I should've been happy he actually sealed the carton with a single piece of packing tape...) Even so, that battle-tank of a 1541 was still in alignment when it got here. (Then again, I've seen one tumble down a flight of stairs and still pass a mechanical performance test.) You have to love any hardware that could be used as a ballistic weapon in a pinch, and still boot. ;) -Chris Caldwell From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 16:35:23 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 09:42:01 PM Message-ID: <200104242135.f3OLZND31782@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Maintaining original labels is going to be hard to do, > > as the EPROMs age. I've already had to refresh some > > EPROMs from equipment as recent as 1982. > > Unless your programmer insists on doing a blank-check before programming, > you can often refresh EPROMs without erasing them. And thus the label can > stay in place. You can often refresh OTP devices in the same way. > > After all, bit-rot is caused by the charge on the floating gate leaking > away. Charge that was put there when the device was programmed. So it can > be put back by reprogramming _without erasing first_. I've actually had an EPROM that would not take the new programming until I erased it, and the programmer did not require the device to be blank first. > Well, as I said I wouldn't mention the things I'd raid for chips to avoid > flames, but IMHO a no-name PC card is somewhat less significant than a > DEC CD-ROM drive. However, this is most certainly a matter of opinion. That's true, if they were old unique drives. I don't think the new RRDxx CDROM drives are unique. > As you said, in some cases the only place to get parts from is to raid > them from an old machine. But some machines are a lot more common than > others. Would you rather strip RAM from a no-name PC motherboard or from > a PDP11? I'd rather strip anything from a no-name PC motherboard than a PDP-11. > > > You can bet there's a collector who is trying to get one of every model > > > of DEC storage device or something who will want an RRD40. > > > > That may be the case, but where do we draw the line? > > Of course one man's trash is another man's treasure, > > but will everything be worth keeping? And how do we > > justify what we restore and cannibalized? For instance, > > My justification, such as it is, is that I don't cannibalise anything > unless there is _no_ alternative (i.e. the parts simply aren't available > any other way, and there's no reasonable workaround) and that if I do > have to cannibalise parts, I think very carefully what I am stripping, > and how rare it is. In some cases it's better to leave the device I need > parts for unrepaired for the moment rather than stripping them from an > even rarer system. Of course stuff that's already been partially > cannibalised by someone else is often only useful as a source of parts. That's a good way to look at it. > > the MVII I am converting to a PDP-11. I've had good > > feedback on the conversion, but nobody has said to me > > that I should keep the MVII intact and sell it complete > > and buy a complete PDP-11 or all the parts. For the > > That is rather different. The only way to get the Q-bus backplane, case, > PSU, etc (without a _lot_ of work trying to make them all from scratch) > is to start from another DEC machine. Presumably, also, you pulled out > the CPU board and memory boards of the microVAX and kept them intact. In > which case they could be useful as spares for somebody trying to repair a > microVAX with a CPU board fault, for example. That's rather different > IMHO from removing common, easy-to-get chips from a board. Well, yes, I am keeping the boards intact. > > RRD40 drives, I offered them, with the controller board > > thrown in, but the drives in no way require the controller > > board to operate. The drives were normally sold to be > > used with the RRD50 controller; the SCSI adapter boards > > were just a kludge to get the drives to work with SCSI > > controllers. I took them out of the Infoserver 100 and > > Sure. And since the SCSI interface wasn't normally used with these > drives, surely it means that the SCSI interface is something that's > relatively rare and worth keeping intact. I didn't look at it that way. > > replaced them with compatible SCSI CDROM drives so I > > could have a functioning system. Should I have kept the > > Infoserver 100 pure instead? That would have meant the > > I would have done. What's wrong with the original CD-ROM drives. I'd have > been inclined to repair said drives (IIRC, they're actually an LMS-based > design, and parts may well be available...) Oops, LMS. I was thinking LSI. Anyway, the problem with the original CDROM drives is they require a special, hard-to-find and hard-to-use caddy. The system was unusable with the RRD40 drives. The caddies used in the RRD40 drives were hard to load. I've dropped a couple of CDs trying to load the caddies. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 16:40:01 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 09:25:46 PM Message-ID: <200104242140.f3OLe1231808@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > On Tue, Apr 24, 2001 at 07:52:46PM +0200, Marian Capel & Jos Dreesen wrote: > > > >http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg > > > Does the drive come with or without the cat ? > > > > Without. He likes to step on keyboards, you dont want him. > > Want to bet? A cat is the only creature that can jump on my workbench, > knock screws and other small components all over the place and still get > loved by me :-). My cat has a basket in the corner of the computer room. He sleeps in it or on the back of my chair. My wife, on the other hand, isn't allowed in the computer room as all she wants to do is clean out old stuff (but I still love her anyway). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 16:43:43 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <20010424210033.3BD3420F6A@mail.iae.nl> from "kees.stravers@iae.nl" at Apr 24, 2001 11:00:33 PM Message-ID: <200104242143.f3OLhho31824@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I have one and I am very happy with it. Why people are talking bad about > it I can't understand. Sure it isn't fast and has a strange caddy, but > it is _very_ reliable IMHO. Once the disk is in, you won't get any read > errors or timeouts or some such. I have installed operating systems on > several VAXstation 3100s with other SCSI drives and with the RRD40, but > while with other old non-DEC SCSI drives I sooner or later always got read > errors or timeouts, installing with my RRD40 always worked first time > without problems. I used to use one a lot, and I would sometimes get errors reading disks. I hated loading and unloading the caddies, too. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 24 16:42:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 06:43:47 PM Message-ID: <200104242142.OAA13403@shell1.aracnet.com> > You can bet there's a collector who is trying to get one of every model > of DEC storage device or something who will want an RRD40. > > -tony Not to mention that some of us actually like RRD40's! They're an excellent drive in some circumstances! Zane From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 24 16:43:26 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives References: <200104231850.f3NIoCJ22597@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3AE5F37E.875797C1@internet1.net> Ok, I do need a cd-rom. I only have DSSI and Qbus, no SCSI on my MicroVax 3400. What would I need in additon to the RRD40 to use it? By other peoples accounts it seems they are good drives, just slow. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Eric Dittman wrote: > > I recently acquired some old DEC equipment > that that two RRD40 drives with SCSI adapters. > I quickly replaced them with some real SCSI > CDROM drives. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 16:40:21 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Commodore 8050M disk drive. What's it for? In-Reply-To: <001f01c0cd02$6f5d7b80$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 24, 1 03:06:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/705b852e/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Tue Apr 24 16:49:03 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE5F12D.52601247@ptd.net> Message-ID: You know the wedge shape of the C64 is also excellent for use as a wheel chock when you work on your car (grin). I can't believe that the unit made it without busting all of the keys off having the drive on top of it. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of hardwire@ptd.net > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 4:34 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > > This only really irritates me when I get the package and it is packed > > badly. > > > The worst packing job I've ever seen in all of my 31 years was when I > picked up a C64/1541 combo on EBay a few months back. The seller had > run a little over 50 auctions at that time, not a lot, but usually more > than enough for a few negative feedbacks to creep in. > > Anyway, this guy simply went to his local grocery store, got hold of a > seriously flimsy cardboard box, and proceeded to place the computer and > drive in the bottom of said box (in that order too). And that was > it--no packing material what-so-ever!!! (I guess I should've been > happy he actually sealed the carton with a single piece of packing > tape...) > > Even so, that battle-tank of a 1541 was still in alignment when it got > here. (Then again, I've seen one tumble down a flight of stairs and > still pass a mechanical performance test.) You have to love any > hardware that could be used as a ballistic weapon in a pinch, and still > boot. ;) > > -Chris Caldwell From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Apr 24 16:55:03 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Computers for swap or sell Message-ID: <20010424215503.85921.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I have some extra systems, see if there's anything that you like! 1.Apple IIc with monitor (small green screen) 2.Apple IIc Plus 3.Apple III with Monitor III 4.Macintosh Portable (model 5120) 5.TI-99/4A (black/silver) 6.TI Peripheral Expansion Box (PEB) 7.HP-110 8.Timex Sinclair 1000 with 16K memory pack 9.Kaypro II 10.Several Commodore 64 computers (non-working) 11.Several Commodore 1541 floppy drives (working) 12.Amiga 500 13.Amiga 1000 14.Amiga 2000 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 17:03:27 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104242135.f3OLZND31782@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 24, 1 04:35:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2914 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/b150e03b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 17:07:07 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: <200104242140.f3OLe1231808@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 24, 1 04:40:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 500 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/b897c0fb/attachment.ksh From rdd at smart.net Tue Apr 24 17:15:07 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: PC-RTs and AIX (was: X10 & RTs) In-Reply-To: <20010424203100.15572.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Ken Seefried wrote: > From: "Eric J. Korpela" > I need to stop the nostalgia now or I'll break into a rousing rendition of > "Where have all the RTs gone?" ...well, I can tell you where one of them is: here. :-) Alas, it's boot drive failed, and I've got to find time to replace it; I think I've got a 330MB ESDI Micropolis drive that will with it; it's really picky about which drives ones will, and won't, work, IIRC. It's AIX appears to be a rather strange animal as well, but I didn't get a chance to play with it enough to find out just how strange. :-( If course, while it may be strange in comparison to other UNICEs, I doubt that it's as annoying as anything from SCO (is the rumor true that SCO actually stands for "Screwey Clunker of an OS" and that it began as part of a Microsoft plot to make people dislike UNIX?). Those original IBM drives made fascinating sounds when the locking mechanisms unlocked, one at a time, prior to spin-up... plink, plink, plink... sort of musical. I've got to get a 5-1/4" hard drive re-attached to one of my working UNIX boxes so that I can dump the AIX boot floppy, etc. images to floppies. Do I recall correctly that the PC-RT's tape drive is a "floppy tape" sort of critter? It so, I'm wondering if I can just attach that tape drive to a UNIX box that supports it (if that's possible) and create some sort of bootable tape from the image files. Has anyone here done this? If not, has anyone here created a bootable tape from a working RT running AIX? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 17:21:11 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <3AE5F37E.875797C1@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 24, 2001 05:43:26 PM Message-ID: <200104242221.f3OMLBd32011@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Ok, I do need a cd-rom. I only have DSSI and Qbus, no SCSI on my > MicroVax 3400. What would I need in additon to the RRD40 to use it? > > By other peoples accounts it seems they are good drives, just slow. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA Someone has already claimed the drives. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 24 17:22:55 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <3AE5F37E.875797C1@internet1.net> References: <200104231850.f3NIoCJ22597@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010424152128.01f839f8@208.226.86.10> You need a KRQ50 interface (M7552). The one with s-box handles is a bit harder to find than the one that has a ba23/123 cab kit. There are two 'ports' on the interface. The interface shows up as an MSCP drive (SUxx) --Chuck At 05:43 PM 4/24/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Ok, I do need a cd-rom. I only have DSSI and Qbus, no SCSI on my >MicroVax 3400. What would I need in additon to the RRD40 to use it? > >By other peoples accounts it seems they are good drives, just slow. > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Eric Dittman wrote: > > > > I recently acquired some old DEC equipment > > that that two RRD40 drives with SCSI adapters. > > I quickly replaced them with some real SCSI > > CDROM drives. From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 17:41:08 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 11:07:07 PM Message-ID: <200104242241.f3OMf9T32366@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > Want to bet? A cat is the only creature that can jump on my workbench, > > > knock screws and other small components all over the place and still get > > > loved by me :-). > > > > My cat has a basket in the corner of the computer room. He > > A local cat here will sleep on anything made by HP. So far he's slept on > an HP9100B, an HP9815, HP9825, assorted HP manuals, most of the HPCC > library, and assorted handhelds. For some reason, though, he won't sleep > on other computer hardware.... My wife used to let one of the cats sleep on her laser printer, but of course the printer got cat hair in it and ruined the developer. I had warned her several times that letting the cat sleep on the printer was a bad idea, but she ignored me until she had to buy a new developer. After that the cat lost her sleeping place. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 24 17:38:22 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: <3AE44C24.5950A7D0@home.com> <3AE55418.8573.BDF329C@localhost> <3AE5DA98.DB2A00E@internet1.net> <3AE5F12D.52601247@ptd.net> Message-ID: <3AE6005E.F8736ECB@internet1.net> WOW! That is almost inconceivable! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA hardwire@ptd.net wrote: > Anyway, this guy simply went to his local grocery store, got hold of a > seriously flimsy cardboard box, and proceeded to place the computer and > drive in the bottom of said box (in that order too). And that was > it--no packing material what-so-ever!!! (I guess I should've been > happy he actually sealed the carton with a single piece of packing > tape...) > > Even so, that battle-tank of a 1541 was still in alignment when it got > here. (Then again, I've seen one tumble down a flight of stairs and > still pass a mechanical performance test.) You have to love any > hardware that could be used as a ballistic weapon in a pinch, and still > boot. ;) > > -Chris Caldwell From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 17:44:16 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 24, 2001 11:03:27 PM Message-ID: <200104242244.f3OMiGl32386@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Of course you were supposed to buy one caddy for each CD-ROM you had, > load them once, and then insert the appropriate caddy into the drive. > Used like that, they're easier to use than loose CD-ROMs in a > conventional tray-type drive. > > However, most people were too cheap (:-)) to buy enough caddies (they > weren't that cheap IiRC), and there is a definite knack to loading them > without dropping the disk. When you get used to them they're not that > bad, though. The company I worked for was too cheap to buy more than a couple. I seem to remember the caddies were around $40 each, but that may be just a poor memory. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 24 17:52:07 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010424152128.01f839f8@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 24, 2001 03:22:55 PM Message-ID: <200104242252.PAA16684@shell1.aracnet.com> > You need a KRQ50 interface (M7552). The one with s-box handles is a bit > harder to find than the one that has a ba23/123 cab kit. There are two > 'ports' on the interface. The interface shows up as an MSCP drive (SUxx) > > --Chuck Do you happen to know if this drive will work on a PDP-11? Or is it VMS only? I've been wanting one of the boards and a drive for ages, but have never run across one. Zane From rdd at smart.net Tue Apr 24 18:08:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question Message-ID: Greetings, A while back, I purchased a TRS-80 Model III with 48K of memory, but I can't access the BASIC interpreter... that is, if it has one as I was thinking it did. Do I need to use a boot floppy in order to do anything with this machine? Also, weren't some TRS-80 systems able to use a hard drive? Funny thing, I still have the book that I purchased from Radio Shack about 20 years ago (doesn't seem possible that it's been that long) so that I could use a TRS-80 in a computer lab in college: _BASIC Computer Language: It's easier than you think!_. Five dollars and ninety five cents... wow, try buying a new computer-related book at that price now! -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From hardwire at ptd.net Tue Apr 24 18:16:44 2001 From: hardwire at ptd.net (hardwire@ptd.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices References: Message-ID: <3AE6095C.4D5154BB@ptd.net> Russ Blakeman wrote: > > You know the wedge shape of the C64 is also excellent for use as a wheel > chock when you work on your car (grin). I can't believe that the unit made > it without busting all of the keys off having the drive on top of it. Actually, all of the keycaps were intact if I remember correctly. (Which is a little strange come to think of it...) The real irony was that I'd bought both pieces for the 'look' of their outer cases. (Read: non-yellowed, non-cracked, etc.) At that time, I was cobbling together a 'factory-fresh' looking/working 64 system by picking up whatever I could find on the cheap. (Some free, some EBay.) Both the computer and the drive appeared pretty good in the auction photos (as much as one can tell), but by the time they arrived here they were fairly scuffed and marred. Aside from that, the only real damage was that a few of the plastic 'hinges' that secure the 64's case had snapped off clean. Plus, the bottom vent slats on the 1541 were cracked. (At least the final auction price was low...) -Chris From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Apr 24 18:18:30 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104242252.PAA16684@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010424152128.01f839f8@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010424161611.01eb1020@208.226.86.10> I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't. It looks just like any other MSCP drive to the VAX. I found an interface w/cab kit for a BA23/123 but don't have a drive to try it out with. It would be _very_ interesting to see if someone could boot an RT-11 distribution from it :-) --Chuck At 03:52 PM 4/24/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > You need a KRQ50 interface (M7552). The one with s-box handles is a bit > > harder to find than the one that has a ba23/123 cab kit. There are two > > 'ports' on the interface. The interface shows up as an MSCP drive (SUxx) > > > > --Chuck > >Do you happen to know if this drive will work on a PDP-11? Or is it VMS >only? I've been wanting one of the boards and a drive for ages, but have >never run across one. > > Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 24 18:20:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 24, 1 07:08:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2123 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/b178fe34/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 18:36:53 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 24, 2001 07:08:36 PM Message-ID: <200104242336.f3ONar032594@narnia.int.dittman.net> > A while back, I purchased a TRS-80 Model III with 48K of memory, but I > can't access the BASIC interpreter... that is, if it has one as I was > thinking it did. Do I need to use a boot floppy in order to do anything > with this machine? Hold down the BREAK key when you turn on the system or push the reset button. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 24 18:33:13 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don't forget that most of the British Commonwealth members use postal codes. Places like India. Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > If the seller is shipping to USA, Canada, UK and some other odd places by > UPS you have to have a zip (postal) code to calculate the shipping. If > shipping by USPS to another country it doesn't matter, just the country. > Seems real weird to me that if I sent a package by USPS from detroit to > Windsor Ontario it would cost the same as shipping from the Keys on Florida > to the NW territories - gotta wonder why people prefer UPS, FedEx, DHl and > others over the postal service. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 2:57 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Why do US sellers ask for your ZIP code ? > > > > Thats how we know where you live. Cost might not vary as much with > > International shipping, by zip code, but I would think that a zip from > > Vancouver would cost more than a zip from Toronto, for me. > > > > > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping and handling > > > charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make their money. > > > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. > > > > > > This only really irritates me when I get the package and it is packed > > badly. I bought an Apple //gs from a guy on Ebay that sort of did that > > to me. He was a big seller, that already had the box packed before the > > auction started, I guess. I didn't need the 5.25" floppy drive, becasue > > I already had one. I told him that he could keep it, so I wouldn't have > > to pay as much in shipping.... mind you I didn't ask to pay less than > > the final bid price... just a smaller shipping cost to reflect the > > weight of the drive that he got to keep. He wanted to charge me > > something like $40 an hour to repack the box!! I figured well, he must > > do a really good job packing everything just so. I told him, forget it, > > just send it as is. I recived a huge box packed loosely, with all items > > just tossed in with peanuts!!!! I was so mad. It couldn't have taken > > him any time at all to pack the box, nothing was really protected, he > > didn't even do anything to prevent penuts from getting into the floppy > > drives! On top of that the computer was very abused. For some reason, > > I didn't leave negative feedback, I can't remember why, Though. > > > > Chad Fernandez > > Michigan, USA > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 24 18:34:19 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:41 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010424161611.01eb1020@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 24, 2001 04:18:30 PM Message-ID: <200104242334.QAA19134@shell1.aracnet.com> > I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't. It looks just like any other > MSCP drive to the VAX. I found an interface w/cab kit for a BA23/123 but > don't have a drive to try it out with. It would be _very_ interesting to > see if someone could boot an RT-11 distribution from it :-) > > --Chuck Well, if I had the board and drive, I'd be trying to boot RT-11 off of it. I've already got a bootable RT-11 distro on CD-ROM :^) I decided that was safer than trusting floppies or tape if I need to rebuild my system! Zane From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 24 18:43:25 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Computers for swap or sell In-Reply-To: <20010424215503.85921.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How much do you want for the Sinclair? I still actively use mine. (I know I am a masochist with that keyboard.) It works NTSC, right? Peace... Sridhar On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, steve wrote: > Hi, > > I have some extra systems, see if there's anything > that you like! > > 1.Apple IIc with monitor (small green screen) > 2.Apple IIc Plus > 3.Apple III with Monitor III > > 4.Macintosh Portable (model 5120) > > 5.TI-99/4A (black/silver) > 6.TI Peripheral Expansion Box (PEB) > > 7.HP-110 > > 8.Timex Sinclair 1000 with 16K memory pack > > 9.Kaypro II > > 10.Several Commodore 64 computers (non-working) > 11.Several Commodore 1541 floppy drives (working) > > 12.Amiga 500 > 13.Amiga 1000 > 14.Amiga 2000 > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Apr 24 19:03:24 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Felines (was: RE: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony wrote: > A local cat here will sleep on anything made by HP. [snip] My lab actually exists purely as a home for experimental cat furniture. There are five that frequent the lab (well, six if you count the Incredibly Dumb Dog that Things It's A Cat). Getting anything done usually requires relocating one or more felines, usually accompanied by much grumping and "I'll see you at 0500" looks. Tempest, the Worlds Smartest And Most Mercurial Tabbycat, used to nest exclusively on Sun monitors, until I removed them all in favor of multihead PC's running Xwin32, at which point she started to hang out inside a jumbo Nova 840. Noelle the Chaos Kitten used to sleep inside the fax machine. Kamali is in charge of shredding important documents, Glitch periodically appears to howl and shed, and Bobo, the Stray who Came and Stayed, is just a large lump in the middle of whatever I'm working on. It's true. Can't don't have owners, they have servants... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Apr 24 19:12:13 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: <200104242135.f3OLZND31782@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > Maintaining original labels is going to be hard to do, > > > as the EPROMs age. I've already had to refresh some > > > EPROMs from equipment as recent as 1982. > > > > Unless your programmer insists on doing a blank-check before programming, > > you can often refresh EPROMs without erasing them. And thus the label can > > stay in place. You can often refresh OTP devices in the same way. > > > > After all, bit-rot is caused by the charge on the floating gate leaking > > away. Charge that was put there when the device was programmed. So it can > > be put back by reprogramming _without erasing first_. > > I've actually had an EPROM that would not take the new > programming until I erased it, and the programmer did > not require the device to be blank first. > An intelligent (modern) programmer will only burn the location until it reads back correctly. This is done to avoid stressing the cells and allows more erase cycles. What probably happened is the programmer wrote it once, read the location was good, and moved on. For some facinating reading, look at the programming algorithms for an EPROM some day.... clint From hardwire at ptd.net Tue Apr 24 19:25:18 2001 From: hardwire at ptd.net (hardwire@ptd.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Nabu Computers Available... Message-ID: <3AE6196E.F865B1B1@ptd.net> This might be of interest to somebody here (hopefully)... Surplus Traders (www.73.com) currently has 35 Nabu computers for $29.00 a pop, plus shipping. Normally they do bulk sales, but they will sell the Nabu individually. (Search for item CR356.) I picked one up a while ago, and mine was still 'new', in the box, with a factory seal. Then again, since this surplus, it might be best to verify that the units are 'new' if that's important to you. Unfortunately, I haven't really toyed with the Nabu hardware too much (yet), and if anyone else has, I'd love to hear about it. Either way, these machines are certainly an interesting part of computing history. Here's a small blurb about the Nabu: http://ieee.ca/millennium/telidon/telidon_nabu.html From vaxman at qwest.net Tue Apr 24 19:16:33 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: <3AE6005E.F8736ECB@internet1.net> Message-ID: The initial qualification test for the DVD-ROM drive in the new XBox involved dropping it from waist high onto the floor. After it passed that test, the drive was dropped from above the head and it still worked! I guess MS expects some rough treatment of their game console :) clint On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote: > WOW! That is almost inconceivable! > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > hardwire@ptd.net wrote: > > Anyway, this guy simply went to his local grocery store, got hold of a > > seriously flimsy cardboard box, and proceeded to place the computer and > > drive in the bottom of said box (in that order too). And that was > > it--no packing material what-so-ever!!! (I guess I should've been > > happy he actually sealed the carton with a single piece of packing > > tape...) > > > > Even so, that battle-tank of a 1541 was still in alignment when it got > > here. (Then again, I've seen one tumble down a flight of stairs and > > still pass a mechanical performance test.) You have to love any > > hardware that could be used as a ballistic weapon in a pinch, and still > > boot. ;) > > > > -Chris Caldwell > > From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 19:52:09 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Apr 24, 2001 06:12:13 PM Message-ID: <200104250052.f3P0q9500423@narnia.int.dittman.net> > An intelligent (modern) programmer will only burn the location until it > reads back correctly. This is done to avoid stressing the cells and > allows more erase cycles. What probably happened is the programmer wrote > it once, read the location was good, and moved on. For some facinating > reading, look at the programming algorithms for an EPROM some day.... I've read a lot of ROM/PROM/EPROM/EEPROM programming algorithms. In my former line of work we used to run into some very odd (and non-conforming) behavior with some programmable parts. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Apr 24 19:56:10 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Felines (was: RE: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Kennedy" at Apr 24, 2001 05:03:24 PM Message-ID: <200104250056.f3P0uAQ00436@narnia.int.dittman.net> > My lab actually exists purely as a home for experimental cat > furniture. There are five that frequent the lab (well, six > if you count the Incredibly Dumb Dog that Things It's A Cat). > Getting anything done usually requires relocating one or more > felines, usually accompanied by much grumping and "I'll see you at > 0500" looks. I've got a cat that thinks it's a dog. What's even more strange is we've had the cat since it was a kitten and it was never around any dogs until recently. It gets along very well with our neighbor's dog. What I think is funny is working on my laptop in bed and having one of the cats see the cursor moving around. They'll swat at it trying to catch it. Of course nothing beats a cat and a laser pointer. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From louiss at gate.net Tue Apr 24 20:12:54 2001 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Felines (was: RE: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104250112.VAA145144@flathead.gate.net> On Tue, 24 Apr 2001 17:03:24 -0700, Chris Kennedy wrote: #Tony wrote: # #> A local cat here will sleep on anything made by HP. # #[snip] # #My lab actually exists purely as a home for experimental cat #furniture. There are five that frequent the lab (well, six #if you count the Incredibly Dumb Dog that Things It's A Cat). #Getting anything done usually requires relocating one or more #felines, usually accompanied by much grumping and "I'll see you at #0500" looks. # Interestingly, my cats really do have an affinity for the computers. Sitting at the computer, cats that will never otherwise sit in my lap insist on it. In fact, they have jealous competitions. Jumping onto the top of the scanner became such a serious problem I had to put a pillow there to stop the crashes. Penny uses the table of old computers as a maze for staging ambushes. I think it is something about the 60 Hz buzz. Louis From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 24 20:27:02 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Felines (was: RE: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX) In-Reply-To: <200104250056.f3P0uAQ00436@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010424212702.0157ebb0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Eric Dittman may have mentioned these words: >Of course nothing beats a cat and a laser pointer. Yes, there is - a dog & a laser pointer. My cousin trained his dog to chase a laser pointer (food was a strong motivator to learn this particular activity). Imagine a 135 pound Chocolate Labrador chasing a little red dot with reckless abandon (and no regard to the laws of physics it seemed)... ;-) Prost, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Tue Apr 24 20:37:14 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies Message-ID: <3AE62A4A.4558E7FA@bresnanlink.net> I've always wanted a PCjr with an expansion chassis on it, but they were pretty expensive, and I got by without one. 15 years later I have found one on Ebay and bought it, but alas it's not a happy ending. There are at least two serious problems that I need to fix. The first problem is a broken I/O pin on the expansion bus that comes off the motherboard. The pin is in a 60 pin rectangular connector, and spacing is tight. he broken pin is a data line pin, so if I don't fix it, I can't add any sidecars to the machine. How does one go about replacing a pin? Is it possible? Or am I going to have to desolder the connector and try to replace the entire connector? (And I'm not good with a soldering iron ... I can't even tin wires.) The second problem looks to be a bad power supply. The expansion unit has it's own power supply because the PCjr power supply is only about 33 watts. The expansion unit has extra memory in it that is not being seen by the system unit; I suspect that is because the +5 output on the power supply is reading about 1.8 volts. (According to a digital multimeter.) I measured this with everything connected, so there certainly is enough load. (I don't think that this is even a switching power supply, so the load issue is moot.) The power supply has a "pick" line that is probably activated from the main unit, so that it doesn't have to have an independent power switch. How does such a pick line work? Is there a way to fool it on? What does it use for a ground? (I didn't see one clearly labeled that belonged to the pick line ... perhaps it was the same ground as the +5v line?) How can I confirm that this power supply is truly toast? And it is, then how do I replace it? (I'm willing to scab in a reasonable substitute - it probably can't be a switching supply though because there won't be enough load - it's probably only 512KB of chips on board. The expansion unit is a Rapport if that helps anybody. Thanks, Mike From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 24 20:45:30 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Nabu Computers Available... In-Reply-To: <3AE6196E.F865B1B1@ptd.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010424214530.0149ad90@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that hardwire@ptd.net may have mentioned these words: >Surplus Traders (www.73.com) currently has 35 Nabu computers for $29.00 >a pop, plus shipping. Normally they do bulk sales, but they will sell >the Nabu individually. (Search for item CR356.) And that seems to be the only decent buy on the entire (huge) website... Just a couple "other" examples: 7 x CORE 2266 1GB SCSI 5.25" FH $135ea 16 x MICROPOLIS 4221WS 2GB 3.5" Fast/Wide SCSI $310ea 293 x RODIME 3259 200MB SCSI 3.5" $45ea And my favo[u]rite: IBM 3.5" 127 MB R/W Internal SCSI Disk Drive, IBM P62G2908, IBM P/N 66G7510. $650.00 Ea/10, $750.00 Ea/2 I'd like to have one of those drives -- but not at *that* price... Caveat Emptor... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Apr 24 20:49:31 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: PC-RTs and AIX (was: X10 & RTs) Message-ID: <3e.aadb863.2817872b@aol.com> In a message dated 4/24/01 5:21:42 PM Central Daylight Time, rdd@smart.net writes: << Do I recall correctly that the PC-RT's tape drive is a "floppy tape" sort of critter? It so, I'm wondering if I can just attach that tape drive to a UNIX box that supports it (if that's possible) and create some sort of bootable tape from the image files. Has anyone here done this? If not, has anyone here created a bootable tape from a working RT running AIX? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis >> Are you talking about the 6157 tape drive? I've heard that is the only drive that the RT will work with. I have both 6157 and RT, but no interface card for it yet. DB Young Team OS/2 antique computer collection, hot rod pinto, and more at: http://www.nothingtodo.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 24 17:15:26 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: PC-RTs and AIX (was: X10 & RTs) In-Reply-To: <3e.aadb863.2817872b@aol.com> Message-ID: <20010425021338.PXHA17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:49:31 EDT > Subject: Re: PC-RTs and AIX (was: X10 & RTs) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > In a message dated 4/24/01 5:21:42 PM Central Daylight Time, rdd@smart.net > writes: > > << Do I recall correctly that the PC-RT's tape drive is a "floppy tape" > sort of critter? It so, I'm wondering if I can just attach that tape > drive to a UNIX box that supports it (if that's possible) and create > some sort of bootable tape from the image files. Has anyone here > done this? If not, has anyone here created a bootable tape from a > working RT running AIX? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis >> > > Are you talking about the 6157 tape drive? I've heard that is the only drive > that the RT will work with. I have both 6157 and RT, but no interface card > for it yet. These drives for RT are QIC-02 interface find a straight 8 bit QIC-02 and straight drop in after setting right settings, appox 150MB on that drive, made by Cipher but I know wasn't on that card itself. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 24 17:15:26 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Nabu Computers Available... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010424214530.0149ad90@mail.30below.com> References: <3AE6196E.F865B1B1@ptd.net> Message-ID: <20010425021343.PXHO17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 21:45:30 -0400 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Roger Merchberger > Subject: Re: Nabu Computers Available... > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Rumor has it that hardwire@ptd.net may have mentioned these words: > > >Surplus Traders (www.73.com) currently has 35 Nabu computers for $29.00 > >a pop, plus shipping. Normally they do bulk sales, but they will sell > >the Nabu individually. (Search for item CR356.) > > And that seems to be the only decent buy on the entire (huge) website... > Just a couple "other" examples: > > 7 x CORE 2266 1GB SCSI 5.25" FH $135ea Core? That drives were over 10 years ago and Core sank quickly afterwards, I knew because I saw their ads in Byte in dec '90 after 1 or 2 years later, gone. > > 16 x MICROPOLIS 4221WS 2GB 3.5" Fast/Wide SCSI $310ea That one of two models in my 11 micropolis duds about half and half, all of them are dead. Total junk and no QC at all, and OVERPRICED! I found better deals anywhere else besides Ebay for example I found few SCSI HD drives for $1 ea over 75% works after LLF and reset the jumpers correctly. None were micropolis, some was IBM, some Seagates, etc. BTW, anybody have info about somebody had bought up Micropolis's patents or hardware and their tech people who engineered those Micro-junk? > > 293 x RODIME 3259 200MB SCSI 3.5" $45ea Rodime? Run to the hills if you care your lives! > > And my favo[u]rite: > > IBM 3.5" 127 MB R/W Internal SCSI Disk Drive, IBM P62G2908, IBM P/N > 66G7510. $650.00 Ea/10, $750.00 Ea/2 > > I'd like to have one of those drives -- but not at *that* price... Overpriced! Found my 230MB MO 3.5" based on Olypmus mech in a APS case for 20 US in C.R. south of Rochester next to Jefferson rd. :-) But C.R. is excellent way to find your odd parts especially for Macs and IBM PS/2 parts and all over the USA states. Prices is average but nearly all of these parts I found turned out to be working if worse for wear. Some were new-old stock and still boxed or still in OEM wrappers! Yes, you can look over mostly whole computers for a low price and paw through bins for interesting parts. Cost on used monitors is bit average-high. > > Caveat Emptor... Right on. > Roger "Merch" Merchberger Cheers, Wizard From chomko at greenbelt.com Tue Apr 24 23:51:19 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives References: <200104240129.f3O1Tcw26175@narnia.int.dittman.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20010423192839.0208e610@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AE657C7.B78C5CBB@greenbelt.com> Put on on eBay less than 2 months ago. Went for around $40 as I recall. Chuck McManis wrote: > FWIW I could use a DEC RRD40 CD-ROM (original 15 pin interface) w/ Caddy if > someone has one. I'm restoring yes another MicroVAX II and that is the > drive to match up with one. > > --Chuck From foxnhare at jps.net Tue Apr 24 23:56:28 2001 From: foxnhare at jps.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: commodore stuff... References: <200104241950.OAA72720@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3AE658F9.DD65C587@jps.net> On what a 8050 drive can work on Every PET/CBM except the ones with the original ROMs, and the CBM II series (B128, P500, B600, 700, etc.) The 8050 is a dual 1/2 megabyte (per floppy) drive using quad density (96tpi) single sided disks (not to be confused with high density, I have read double density disks can be used in a pinch), usualy more common to find 8050 software disks used in the CBM business line or the CBM-II (B1-28) line then in the mass consumer PETs. Unfortunaltely it cannot read 1541 or 2040/4040/2031 disks. But I have heard you can read a half of a 8250 disk with it (8250 is a dual sided quad density drive) see also: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/petfaq.html On the cable... > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:22:00 -0500 > From: "Russ Blakeman" > Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > In a batch of power adapters and cables I found a stereotypical Commodore > style beige serial type cable, having the DIN plug on the end - but only on > one end. The other end is a 25 pin female d-sub. I know it's factory as the > housing for the 25 pin has the C= emblem molded into it. ... > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:04:13 -0500 > From: "Russ Blakeman" > Subject: RE: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > Okay I looked quick and "assumed" it was a 25, might be a 23...I completely > forgot that it might be video. I guess they are made strictly for Commodore > brand monitors... 23 pin d-sub mini to DIN is a 1084 monitor (DIN) to Amiga (23 pin d-sub mini) cable. For that monitor to an 8-bit it would have been DIN to DIN (not sure of the monitor configuration though). Commodore for a short time used these nasty DIN connectors on their 1084 monitors which were non standard... (probably got a deal on DIN jacks, eh?) I belive Magnavox did release some of thier branded monitors with that connetor too... :/ -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Classic Commodore pages at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Apr 25 00:45:33 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Commodore 386 LT power adapter Message-ID: <3AE62C3D.921.F2BA56B@localhost> I picked up a Commodore 386 laptop without a power adapter. A nicely designed little box except for the !#%$%^^$ proprietory adapter connection. It's like a Mac 8-pin minisub mounted upside down. Anyone know the pinouts for this ? Amazingly little info on these boxes (286/386)on the net. Like many LTs it is 16v with a 12v battery. 3 of the pins are tied to ground and one seems to go to the battery. Anything similiar on the Amiga ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Apr 25 01:05:07 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Univ. of Colorado Auction References: <3AE6196E.F865B1B1@ptd.net> <20010425021343.PXHO17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <00ee01c0cd4d$ae1bb080$f812f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> The U. of Colo. is apparently auctioning off a huge amount of surplus computer equipment on 5/19. The listing is at: http://stripe.colorado.edu/~propman/auclist.html Saw a few interesting things such as a number of HP 85s, a few DEC items and tons of Sun and Apple stuff. -W From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Apr 25 01:50:11 2001 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies In-Reply-To: <3AE62A4A.4558E7FA@bresnanlink.net> Message-ID: <20010425064847.HLNN24660.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@Benchbox> Depends on the switcher you connect to it, but if it it isn't picky, you might just get power. If it is a picky sort, I often use a spare hard disk to provide the load required to turn the sucker on. A big motor makes all the difference. My Atari 8-bit will run off of anything, but 'anything' won't run it if I don't provide a significant load. Regards, Jeff n <3AE62A4A.4558E7FA@bresnanlink.net>, on 04/25/01 at 02:50 AM, Michael Brutman said: >I've always wanted a PCjr with an expansion chassis on it, but they were >pretty expensive, and I got by without one. 15 years later I have found >one on Ebay and bought it, but alas it's not a happy ending. There are >at least two serious problems that I need to fix. >The first problem is a broken I/O pin on the expansion bus >that comes off the motherboard. The pin is in a 60 pin > rectangular connector, and spacing is tight. he broken pin >is a data line pin, so if I don't fix it, I can't add any >sidecars to the machine. How does one go about replacing >a pin? Is it possible? Or am I going to have to desolder the connector >and try to replace the entire connector? (And I'm not good with a >soldering iron ... I can't even tin wires.) >The second problem looks to be a bad power supply. The >expansion unit has it's own power supply because the PCjr power supply is >only about 33 watts. The expansion unit has extra memory in it that is >not being seen by the system unit; I >suspect that is because the +5 output on the power supply >is reading about 1.8 volts. (According to a digital >multimeter.) I measured this with everything connected, >so there certainly is enough load. (I don't think that >this is even a switching power supply, so the load issue >is moot.) >The power supply has a "pick" line that is >probably activated from the main unit, so that it doesn't >have to have an independent power switch. How does such >a pick line work? Is there a way to fool it on? What >does it use for a ground? (I didn't see one clearly >labeled that belonged to the pick line ... perhaps it >was the same ground as the +5v line?) >How can I confirm that this power supply is truly >toast? And it is, then how do I replace it? (I'm willing >to scab in a reasonable substitute - it probably can't be >a switching supply though because there won't be enough >load - it's probably only 512KB of chips on board. >The expansion unit is a Rapport if that helps anybody. >Thanks, >Mike -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From enrico.badella at softstar.it Wed Apr 25 02:53:32 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Booting an older RS6000 off cdrom References: <01ef01c0cced$b4b8cfa0$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <3AE5D8DD.8DE393CE@softstar.it> <10104242142.ZM27329@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <3AE6827C.4E54E05E@softstar.it> Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Apr 24, 21:49, Enrico Badella wrote: > > > I tried all the cd players I had Matshita, Pioneer, Sony (ex Sun) > > and even IBM. All on SCSI ID 6 512 bytes/sector none ever worked > > except the Toshiba I pulled out of a RS6000 7013/59H. With this I > > installed 4.2.1 then maye a mksysb tape. > > > > I could never explain why the 320H is so picky about CDs > > Ah, I've got one of those ex-RS/6000 Toshibas. I have the opposite problem > -- it won't work on anything except an RS6000! It has custom firmware. This is even stranger! I used that CD player to install Solaris 8 x86 with an Adaptec controller. I'm too lazy to open the box were the Cd player is is to get the model no. The box used to house another IBM CD player, I have it here in front of me, it is a Toshiba XM-3101BME. Doesn't work with the 320H for sure, but I think I used it to install AIX 4.3.3 on a PowerPC 7011/250 and probably also an NT Server (yuck). Seems like the CDs that come with Sun Ultra 5 e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From timjarrett at mcmurdo.co.uk Wed Apr 25 05:11:01 2001 From: timjarrett at mcmurdo.co.uk (Tim Jarrett) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Stag PP39 Documentation Query Message-ID: Does anyone have a technical / service manual for a Stag PP39 Eprom Programmer ? I have tried Stag but they were very unhelpful. Any info would be greatly received Thanks Tim Jarrett From rhblake at bigfoot.com Wed Apr 25 07:26:28 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: UPS's site for calculating shows an asterisk next to the country name if it will need a zip or postal code. I haven't looked but you'd think that Russia and China would ask for something like that, as big as they are. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vance Dereksen > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 6:33 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > Don't forget that most of the British Commonwealth members use postal > codes. Places like India. > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, Russ Blakeman wrote: > > > If the seller is shipping to USA, Canada, UK and some other odd > places by > > UPS you have to have a zip (postal) code to calculate the shipping. If > > shipping by USPS to another country it doesn't matter, just the country. > > Seems real weird to me that if I sent a package by USPS from detroit to > > Windsor Ontario it would cost the same as shipping from the > Keys on Florida > > to the NW territories - gotta wonder why people prefer UPS, > FedEx, DHl and > > others over the postal service. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chad Fernandez > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 2:57 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: My first problem w/ ebay came up... needs your advices > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > Why do US sellers ask for your ZIP code ? > > > > > > Thats how we know where you live. Cost might not vary as much with > > > International shipping, by zip code, but I would think that a zip from > > > Vancouver would cost more than a zip from Toronto, for me. > > > > > > > One of my big beefs are the guys that ask a big shipping > and handling > > > > charge. I sometimes wonder if that is how they really make > their money. > > > > I've passed on many desired things due to that rip-off. > > > > > > > > > This only really irritates me when I get the package and it is packed > > > badly. I bought an Apple //gs from a guy on Ebay that sort > of did that > > > to me. He was a big seller, that already had the box packed > before the > > > auction started, I guess. I didn't need the 5.25" floppy > drive, becasue > > > I already had one. I told him that he could keep it, so I > wouldn't have > > > to pay as much in shipping.... mind you I didn't ask to pay less than > > > the final bid price... just a smaller shipping cost to reflect the > > > weight of the drive that he got to keep. He wanted to charge me > > > something like $40 an hour to repack the box!! I figured > well, he must > > > do a really good job packing everything just so. I told him, > forget it, > > > just send it as is. I recived a huge box packed loosely, > with all items > > > just tossed in with peanuts!!!! I was so mad. It couldn't have taken > > > him any time at all to pack the box, nothing was really protected, he > > > didn't even do anything to prevent penuts from getting into the floppy > > > drives! On top of that the computer was very abused. For > some reason, > > > I didn't leave negative feedback, I can't remember why, Though. > > > > > > Chad Fernandez > > > Michigan, USA > > > From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Wed Apr 25 08:32:23 2001 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Thanks, Tony! (Duell) Message-ID: <43970404@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 260 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/492af75e/attachment.bin From rdd at smart.net Wed Apr 25 09:01:12 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Stag PP39 Documentation Query In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Tim Jarrett wrote: > Does anyone have a technical / service manual for a Stag PP39 Eprom > Programmer ? > > I have tried Stag but they were very unhelpful. Any info would be greatly > received I'm sorry to hear that you got snagged by a Stag as well; I bought a model PP29 (IIRC) a while back and haven't been able to locate any documentation either. It seemed like a good deal at the time. Good luck. If I find any documentation, I'll let you know. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From knightstalkerbob at netscape.net Wed Apr 25 10:55:57 2001 From: knightstalkerbob at netscape.net (Bob Mason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Computers for swap or sell References: <20010424215503.85921.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <456EE1F2.338B7D2B.CF1A260E@netscape.net> What do you have on the Amiga 2000, and how much were you looking for? Bob Mason classiccmp@classiccmp.org wrote: > > Hi, > > I have some extra systems, see if there's anything > that you like! > > 1.Apple IIc with monitor (small green screen) > 2.Apple IIc Plus > 3.Apple III with Monitor III > > 4.Macintosh Portable (model 5120) > > 5.TI-99/4A (black/silver) > 6.TI Peripheral Expansion Box (PEB) > > 7.HP-110 > > 8.Timex Sinclair 1000 with 16K memory pack > > 9.Kaypro II > ? > 10.Several Commodore 64 computers (non-working) > 11.Several Commodore 1541 floppy drives (working) > > 12.Amiga 500 > 13.Amiga 1000 > 14.Amiga 2000 > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > -- Bob Mason 2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip, full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Apr 25 11:26:20 2001 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Commodore 386 LT power adapter Message-ID: <3AE6C26C.27902.11766329@localhost> I picked up a Commodore 386 laptop without a power adapter. A nicely designed little box except for the !#%$%^^$ proprietory adapter connection. It's like a Mac 8-pin minisub mounted upside down. Anyone know the pinouts for this ? Amazingly little info on these boxes (286/386)on the net. Like many LTs it is 16v with a 12v battery. 3 of the pins are tied to ground and one seems to go to the battery. Anything similiar on the Amiga ? larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 25 03:09:38 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:08:36 EDT." Message-ID: <200104250809.JAA04017@citadel.metropolis.local> hi< "R. D. Davis" said: > > Greetings, > > A while back, I purchased a TRS-80 Model III with 48K of memory, but I > can't access the BASIC interpreter... that is, if it has one as I was > thinking it did. Do I need to use a boot floppy in order to do anything > with this machine? > If you start up without a boot disk, it should prompt you with: MEMORY SIZE? answer with a suitable figure - say 32767 - and it should start in BASIC. You can get TRS-DOS and LDOS (much better!) disk images from various web sites - try www.kjal.com/trs80/ Getting the images onto TRS-80 disks requires a PC capable of single density 40 track disks though... > Also, weren't some TRS-80 systems able to use a hard drive? > Yep... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 12:42:37 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Felines (was: RE: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX) In-Reply-To: <200104250112.VAA145144@flathead.gate.net> from "Louis Schulman" at Apr 24, 1 09:12:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/74c9b900/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 12:46:31 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff" at Apr 24, 1 06:12:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1286 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/46384287/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Apr 25 13:29:55 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Available for pickup: Kennedy 9400 vac column 9 track Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010425112434.0282deb0@208.226.86.129> Hello Everyone, My space has undergone some sudden compression and I need to let go some of the things I don't use in my collection. One of the things on that list is a Kennedy 9400 vacuum column 9-track tape drive. It worked when it was decommissioned however in storage the glass cover plates in the vacuum columns have slid down a bit making them no longer air tight. A heat gun to loosen the adhesive and readjust these should make it right as rain again. It is in a rack (DEC corporate type, not an H960) and its in Sunnyvale CA. If you're interested in it let me know. It was, in its day, the Cadillac of tape drives. --Chuck McManis From red at bears.org Wed Apr 25 13:46:44 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: not a DEC video cable? Message-ID: Yesterday, I picked up what I thought was a VAXstation colour video cable at a recyclers. I had nefarious reasons for doing so, and ended up being disappointed to find out it didn't work with my VAXstation (3100m76, GPX). What other systems used DA15 (socket) <-> 3 BNC video cables that also featured mid-cable breakout for keyboard/mouse? The give-away should've been that the keyboard connector is not an RJ-style jack. Instead, it has mini-DIN6 (PS/2-style) keyboard and mouse connectors. ok r. From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 25 14:17:27 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 25, 2001 06:46:31 PM Message-ID: <200104251917.f3PJHRX03612@narnia.int.dittman.net> > If you want a 'fun' exercise, read the programming algorithm for the > 82S100 PLA, and then try to design a programmer. That darn thing needs 4 > or 5 different programming voltages.... One thing that always made me nervous was programming some of the more expensive FPGAs. Especially when the part was supported for the first time by the latest software update to the programmer. We'd get some parts in with a unit cost of around $10,000 (I put the comma in there so you'd know I didn't type one too many zeros) in a lot of 50 or so. A mistake can get very costly. Once a group sent us the WRONG pattern to program. They realized their mistake early, but we'd already programmed 10 of the parts. That was $100,000 down the drain since they weren't erasable. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 13:01:55 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies In-Reply-To: <3AE62A4A.4558E7FA@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Apr 24, 1 08:37:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/5eb94fcd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 13:07:15 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: commodore stuff... In-Reply-To: <3AE658F9.DD65C587@jps.net> from "Larry Anderson" at Apr 24, 1 09:56:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1813 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/f7fbb645/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 13:15:23 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: <200104250809.JAA04017@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 25, 1 09:09:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2147 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/75e35ff9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 13:50:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Stag PP39 Documentation Query In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 25, 1 10:01:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1026 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/95b11147/attachment.ksh From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Wed Apr 25 14:31:23 2001 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (celigne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Stag PP39 Documentation Query References: Message-ID: <3AE7260B.4F375ADE@tinyworld.co.uk> Tim Jarrett wrote: > > Does anyone have a technical / service manual for a Stag PP39 Eprom > Programmer ? I don't have a service manual, but I've uploaded a PDF of (most of!) the Operating Manual to http://vt100.net/docs/misc/stag-man.pdf (310KB). This manual includes some calibration information. I have a working PP39, so if there's something specific I can help you with, let me know. The manual isn't complete, because I only produced it to demonstrate a 14-segment LED font I created! From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Apr 25 15:02:50 2001 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: VAX 6000 3-phase conversion (was: Re: Three Phase) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200104252002.f3PK2oB01542@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 22 Apr, Brian Chase wrote: > Still, it's not so impressive as someone firing up an 11/780 or > one of the VAX 8000 series. They're true power hogs. Hmmm. What about a VAX 9000? As I know, a well equiped 9k can suck more than 30kW. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 25 15:52:59 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: PC-Jr (was: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > supply is only about 33 watts. The expansion unit has extra > > memory in it that is not being seen by the system unit; I > > suspect that is because the +5 output on the power supply > > is reading about 1.8 volts. (According to a digital On some expansion memory units for the PC-Jr the extra memory is NOT seen by the system until certain "special" software is run. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From red at bears.org Wed Apr 25 16:49:29 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: se/30 disk weirdness Message-ID: I brought home an external FDHD for my SE/30 last night, to facilitate retrocomputing tasks. Plugged it in, switched on the Mac, tested it out, shut the Mac down, and unplugged the disk. Now, when the external drive is unplugged, the system somehow still thinks it's there. I get a disk icon with an "x" in it at boot as it tries to boot from this external drive which is not there and finds (surprise!) no system folder on the disk. The system then goes on to boot more-or-less normally from the internal SCSI disk. Once finder starts loading, I get a dialog box that (depending) says one of two things: "This disk cannot be read by this Macintosh. (Eject) (Initialize)" with the icon indicating the (non-present) external floppy. ~or~ "Initialization faild: disk is locked. (OK)" Dismissing these dialogs result in processing resuming normally for a second or two, and then another identical dialog being thrown up. Repeat ad infinitum, et ad nauseam. The internal disk drive continues to work normally (within the above constraints). As soon as I reconnect the external disk drive, everything is happy again. As soon as I disconnect it... bang. Nose demons. I am utterly baffled. What's wrong? How do I fix it? ok r. From optimus at canit.se Wed Apr 25 16:37:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: commodore stuff... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1858.515T1900T13575293optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> 23 pin d-sub mini to DIN is a 1084 monitor (DIN) to Amiga (23 pin d-sub >> mini) cable. For that monitor to an 8-bit it would have been DIN to DIN >> (not sure of the monitor configuration though). Commodore for a short >> time used these nasty DIN connectors on their 1084 monitors which were >> non standard... (probably got a deal on DIN jacks, eh?) >> >> I belive Magnavox did release some of thier branded monitors with that >> connetor too... :/ >>From looking at the schematics of some versions of the 1084, I would >swear it's a Philips design :-). And of course Philips == Magnavox. So >it's not suprising that Philips used those infernal DIN connectors at one >point as well. Looking at how many models of the 1084 there have been, the 1084 model seems more like a way of life than a particular model. =) At the neighbourhood salvation army, there is a Philips 14" TV boasting RGB capability. I think it's got a DIN connector, and it's still got a service manual in a pocket in the back. >Still, they're better than SCART connectors (now there's a connector the >designer of which should be LARTed...). Why? I find it an extremely useful connector. No connector comes close in both standardisation and amount of signals. >I am not sure what connector should be used for RGB video. 3, 4, or 5 >BNCs (depending on how you handle syncs) is the proper way to do it, but >it's inconvenient to connect, and bulky. All the other common video >connectors (SCART, D-connectors, DINs, etc) are not proper video >connectors at all... Why not? And how about the 3W3? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's self- acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak played HYDLIDE 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE series!!! K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 25 16:44:33 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: References: from "Clint Wolff" at Apr 24, 1 06:12:13 pm Message-ID: >If you want a 'fun' exercise, read the programming algorithm for the >82S100 PLA, and then try to design a programmer. That darn thing needs 4 >or 5 different programming voltages.... The last eprom programmer I built was simple, ttl logic whenever that would work (6520 I think), and a dac with a opamp for voltage gain on all the other lines. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 16:59:12 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: commodore stuff... In-Reply-To: <1858.515T1900T13575293optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 25, 1 10:37:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/72bc09e6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 25 17:08:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: DEC RRD40 CDROM Drives In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Apr 25, 1 02:44:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010425/5c62c2a6/attachment.ksh From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Apr 25 17:12:40 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: PC-Jr (was: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/01 4:59:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cisin@xenosoft.com writes: << > > supply is only about 33 watts. The expansion unit has extra > > memory in it that is not being seen by the system unit; I > > suspect that is because the +5 output on the power supply > > is reading about 1.8 volts. (According to a digital On some expansion memory units for the PC-Jr the extra memory is NOT seen by the system until certain "special" software is run. >> if it's the IBM sidecar that plugs in, the system should detect it automagically. I have one on my hard drive equipped jr that was modded so the computer has 640k total. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Apr 25 17:26:38 2001 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Archaeology Article Message-ID: <013001c0cdd6$cc4a7120$6c731fd1@default> Picked the issue at the news stand today that had the 2 page article on classic computers staring our own Sellam Ismail. It was fun reading and now I have to see this former car plant that serves as your warehouse. I have to get me rich uncle so that I can get that kind of space. Articles like this are great for our collecting efforts as more and more people learn about they seek us out to donate their old computers. Keep up the good work. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 25 17:16:04 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: References: <20010424143659.P20299@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Apr 24, 1 02:36:59 pm Message-ID: >Want to bet? A cat is the only creature that can jump on my workbench, >knock screws and other small components all over the place and still get >loved by me :-). Our small cat Pretzel is like having a crow in the house, anything small and shiny gets picked up and carried around. Fortunately she doesn't swallow anything, but she doesn't leave them anyplace special either. The big cat Mikado is so fond of carrying my wifes watch around she has to hide it at night. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 25 17:22:45 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:42 2005 Subject: Free: PDP parts & VMS "Orange Wall" - Austin, TX In-Reply-To: References: <200104242140.f3OLe1231808@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Apr 24, 1 04:40:01 pm Message-ID: >A local cat here will sleep on anything made by HP. So far he's slept on Sounds like a "HeP Cat" ;) From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 25 17:36:07 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: PC-Jr (was: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > if it's the IBM sidecar that plugs in, the system should detect it > automagically. I have one on my hard drive equipped jr that was modded so the > computer has 640k total. Ny recollection was that the original message specified that it was NOT the IBM sidecar. From fruviad at coil.com Wed Apr 25 18:03:11 2001 From: fruviad at coil.com (Peter Kukla) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... Message-ID: <200104252303.TAA27682@bronze.coil.com> Newbie here...apologies if this is a stupid question. Background: I'm a unix-geek who has used VMS in the past, but never done any VMS administration. Naturally, when I got the opportunity to possess my own MicroVAX 3100, I leapt at it! I managed to get a terminal for the VAX and figured out how to boot it, via "BOOT DKA300" at the >>> prompt. This gave me a boot sequence of some sort, terminating in an OpenVMS 6.1 tagline and a "$" prompt. Unfortunately, once I got to this point, I was at a loss about what to do next. None of the VMS commands I enter are recognized as valid commands...they all return the error: %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling I haven't been able to find anything on the web that tells me what to do next. I've even left the box running since I booted it last night, for fear that turning it off will corrupt a mounted filesystem. Anybody out there know what I'm not doing right, or have a URL that points to a site for a beginner-Admin of a VMS box? Thanks... Peter Kukla From elecdata at kcinter.net Wed Apr 25 18:05:00 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: commodore stuff... References: Message-ID: <3AE7581C.43F31B14@kcinter.net> Howdy! The 1984p was made by philips and was sold under a couple of different brands I believe. Bill Claussen elecdata1 Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > > On what a 8050 drive can work on > > > > Every PET/CBM except the ones with the original ROMs, and the CBM II > > series (B128, P500, B600, 700, etc.) > > > > The 8050 is a dual 1/2 megabyte (per floppy) drive using quad density > > (96tpi) single sided disks (not to be confused with high density, I have > > Are you sure it's 96tpi? I've read somewhere that the 8050 is actually > one of the rare 100tpi drives, although I can't be certain. It would be > nice to have a definite statement on this.... > > > Unfortunaltely it cannot read 1541 or 2040/4040/2031 disks. But I have > > heard you can read a half of a 8250 disk with it (8250 is a dual sided > > quad density drive) > > I believe that is correct.... > > > 23 pin d-sub mini to DIN is a 1084 monitor (DIN) to Amiga (23 pin d-sub > > mini) cable. For that monitor to an 8-bit it would have been DIN to DIN > > (not sure of the monitor configuration though). Commodore for a short > > time used these nasty DIN connectors on their 1084 monitors which were > > non standard... (probably got a deal on DIN jacks, eh?) > > > > I belive Magnavox did release some of thier branded monitors with that > > connetor too... :/ > > >From looking at the schematics of some versions of the 1084, I would > swear it's a Philips design :-). And of course Philips == Magnavox. So > it's not suprising that Philips used those infernal DIN connectors at one > point as well. > > Still, they're better than SCART connectors (now there's a connector the > designer of which should be LARTed...). > > I am not sure what connector should be used for RGB video. 3, 4, or 5 > BNCs (depending on how you handle syncs) is the proper way to do it, but > it's inconvenient to connect, and bulky. All the other common video > connectors (SCART, D-connectors, DINs, etc) are not proper video > connectors at all... > > -tony From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Apr 25 18:24:14 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: PC-Jr (was: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies Message-ID: In a message dated 4/25/01 6:42:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cisin@xenosoft.com writes: << > if it's the IBM sidecar that plugs in, the system should detect it > automagically. I have one on my hard drive equipped jr that was modded so the > computer has 640k total. Ny recollection was that the original message specified that it was NOT the IBM sidecar. >> I would still think any memory expansion option would be counted up at POST because the computer can boot with carts installed rather than floppy and also, the standard pcjr model has no disk drives! The enhanced model that everyone seems to have includes one floppy drive. -- DB Young Team OS/2 old computers, hot rod pinto and more at: www.nothingtodo.org From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Apr 25 18:59:29 2001 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: What's DEC doing at Data General site...? In-Reply-To: <045401c0c8a4$14fb2910$0100a8c0@dellhare> Message-ID: Bruce wrote: > I have never seen an actual 8/I or Nova pedestal system in person and do not > know anybody who has managed to collect one. Are they even functional? > A figment only of marketing? I can't speak for the 8/I, but for about a zillion years there was a running Nova pedestal system in the main reception area at Webo. It was still humming away doing, doing not much more than blinking its lights, when I was last there in '84. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Apr 25 19:26:36 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: not a DEC video cable? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010425172556.02254790@208.226.86.10> Sounds like it is a DECStation cable. They are actually somewhat rare in some places. If you read off the number on the side we could ID it for sure ... --Chuck From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 25 19:45:03 2001 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... References: <200104252303.TAA27682@bronze.coil.com> Message-ID: <004401c0cdea$239284a0$0100a8c0@jack> at the $ prompt you are in the cms os. like dos for every cmd there is help. h dir h login h find try login good luck! To reboot press the button in the back between the kbd and the bnc plug, brings you back to >>> which is the bios sortof, there too help... or show devices etc. For manuals etc go to vaxarchive. nice machine for netBSD/vax, even runs wscons, multiple consoles etc. no color graphics support. at 32mb of memory, its about a 486 style machine in bsd. not too hot! Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Kukla" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 7:03 PM Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... > Newbie here...apologies if this is a stupid question. > > Background: I'm a unix-geek who has used VMS in the past, but never > done any VMS administration. Naturally, when I got the opportunity > to possess my own MicroVAX 3100, I leapt at it! > > I managed to get a terminal for the VAX and figured out how to boot > it, via "BOOT DKA300" at the >>> prompt. This gave me a boot sequence > of some sort, terminating in an OpenVMS 6.1 tagline and a "$" prompt. > > Unfortunately, once I got to this point, I was at a loss about what > to do next. None of the VMS commands I enter are recognized as valid > commands...they all return the error: > > %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling > > I haven't been able to find anything on the web that tells me what to > do next. I've even left the box running since I booted it last night, > for fear that turning it off will corrupt a mounted filesystem. > > Anybody out there know what I'm not doing right, or have a URL that > points to a site for a beginner-Admin of a VMS box? > > > Thanks... > > > Peter Kukla From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Apr 25 19:36:21 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104252303.TAA27682@bronze.coil.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010425173523.0223f440@208.226.86.10> Well.... if you type 'HELP' and it gives you an error then you probably booted into standalone backup (as opposed to an operating system). Did it give you a message about "Configuring devices..." ? --Chuck At 07:03 PM 4/25/01 -0400, you wrote: >Unfortunately, once I got to this point, I was at a loss about what >to do next. None of the VMS commands I enter are recognized as valid >commands...they all return the error: > > %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 25 19:43:17 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104252303.TAA27682@bronze.coil.com> from "Peter Kukla" at Apr 25, 2001 07:03:11 PM Message-ID: <200104260043.RAA19708@shell1.aracnet.com> > Newbie here...apologies if this is a stupid question. Nope, not a stupid question. > Background: I'm a unix-geek who has used VMS in the past, but never > done any VMS administration. Naturally, when I got the opportunity > to possess my own MicroVAX 3100, I leapt at it! Good first VMS box. Beware, VMS is addictive! It's now my favorite OS. What it lacks in 'flash' it makes up in other ways. > I managed to get a terminal for the VAX and figured out how to boot > it, via "BOOT DKA300" at the >>> prompt. This gave me a boot sequence > of some sort, terminating in an OpenVMS 6.1 tagline and a "$" prompt. You're not getting a login prompt? Are you booting from CD? It sounds a lot like you're booting into Standalone Backup. Are there any other disks on the system? Unfortuantly I'm really not that familiar with Standalone Backup, as I've barely touched it since moving to Alpha's. One command that is likely to work is BACKUP. > Unfortunately, once I got to this point, I was at a loss about what > to do next. None of the VMS commands I enter are recognized as valid > commands...they all return the error: > > %CLI-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling $ help/message %CLI-W-IVVERB IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling Facility: CLI, Command Language Interpreter (DCL) Explanation: The first word in the command is not a valid DCL command or a symbol name equated with a command. The rejected portion of the command is displayed between backslashes. User Action: Check the spelling of the command name or symbol name, then reenter the command. > I haven't been able to find anything on the web that tells me what to > do next. I've even left the box running since I booted it last night, > for fear that turning it off will corrupt a mounted filesystem. The ODS-2 Filesystem if pretty stable. I've a friend who has the bad habit of just hitting the Power Button on his VMS boxes. Me, I always shut them down, if nothing else they boot faster :^) > Anybody out there know what I'm not doing right, or have a URL that > points to a site for a beginner-Admin of a VMS box? The first couple sites you'll want to check out are: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ Then I'd also recommend: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html (very out of date) http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm Zane From liste at artware.qc.ca Wed Apr 25 19:44:19 2001 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: PC-Jr (was: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplie In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 25-Apr-2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I would still think any memory expansion option would be counted up at > POST because the computer can boot with carts installed rather than > floppy and also, the standard pcjr model has no disk drives! The > enhanced model that everyone seems to have includes one floppy drive. Without a floppy, the PCjr boots into cassette basic (if the cassette is in) or ROM basic which only addresses 64kb anyway. I recall having to fiddle around with "drivers" way back when I had a PCjr with an expansion sidecar. -Philip From azog at azog.org Wed Apr 25 20:03:25 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... References: <200104252303.TAA27682@bronze.coil.com> Message-ID: <006801c0cdec$b3809be0$0a00a8c0@azog> > > I managed to get a terminal for the VAX and figured out how to boot > it, via "BOOT DKA300" at the >>> prompt. This gave me a boot sequence > of some sort, terminating in an OpenVMS 6.1 tagline and a "$" prompt. > actually, it sounds like you may be booting into standalone backup, since you don't mention a login prompt... any other devices you can boot from? From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Wed Apr 25 20:19:08 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies References: <200104252006.PAA92531@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3AE7778C.8C78795@bresnanlink.net> Tony, I have the PCjr Technical reference too and it covers the pinouts of the expansion bus, but not the 3rd party expansion unit itself. I have no documentation for that beast. It sounds like I should buy some soldering/desoldering equipment and start practicing. The broken pin is in the bottom row of the connector, so I don't have easy access to remove it in place. Were you suggesting that I only cut away part of the connector, leave the rest intact, and then replace the part that I cut away? That would certainly save a lot of work, since it is 30 pins across and this pin is second from the outside. Now the power supply is a trickier problem. The PCjr power supply has an external transformer, then another stage inside. The expansion unit looks to have the same setup, except I don't have the external transformer. Since it has the same connector as the standard PCjr power supply, I grabbed a spare PCjr power supply and used it. It's possible that the input voltage is wrong, thus causing the second stage inside the expansion unit to do the wrong thing. So here's the $64000 question - does a Rapport Drive II expansion chassis use the same power supply as the PCjr? If not, can anybody tell me what the true power supply behaves like? Back to assuming I've got the correct external transformer ... I checked all of the boards on the expansion chassis, and I didn't see any burn marks. Does that mean I have no shorts on the board ? ;-) I know what a short is, especially when it starts vaporizing wire, but how do I diagnose a short on something that looks pretty clean and isn't doing anything obvious? I need to find if that pick line is going active - that might be the key to my problems. I'm really thinking of putting an external supply on it, just to test to make sure that it really is the power supply that is acting up. If the rest of it works, then I can relax and take my sweet time with the power supply. (I'm a glutton for punishment. I've got 6 danged PCjrs in the house, all in some state of disrepair. I'd like a good working one. Next time I'm going to pay the premium for one in mint condition.) PCjr heads - check this out: http://pws.chartermi.net/~mbbrutman/PCjr My contribution to classic computers .... Thanks, Mike From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 25 20:26:11 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: PC-Jr (was: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I would still think any memory expansion option would be counted up at POST > because the computer can boot with carts installed rather than floppy and > also, the standard pcjr model has no disk drives! The enhanced model that > everyone seems to have includes one floppy drive. That would certainly make sense. But this is IBM. I had several, (purchased originally without drives) I sold the last of them at VCF. The last one that I sold had a expansion unit that needed "special software", and homemade drive mounts (erector set parts) I remember 2 different brands of memory expansion units that required "special software" to see the memory. And one that did NOT require "special software" - there was a ROM in it in addition to the RAM. The original question mentioned it being a "Rapport" unit. Was that the same company that made the "Impulse" unit? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Apr 25 16:45:36 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroMation system in San Francisco area available. Message-ID: <3AE74580.7B3E65FE@diablonet.net> Subject: Re: MicroMation Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:02:44 -0700 From: Christopher Menke To: ndiablo@diablonet.net References: 1 Hi everyone! I was kindly offered this computer system, but it is extremely out of my range. He said it would be alright if I forwarded it to the list, so here goes. Contact address and caveats below. >Sean, >I was hoping that Diable might have been the Diablo valley here in the San >Francisco area. I think these machins would be quite expensive to ship ,as >each box is 50lbs+ and each terminal is likely 50lbs as well. >You may forward my offer to whomever, as long as the chrismenke@excite.com >address is used, and you throw a caveat in there that I would not like to >be contacted regarding anything else. >As to your Sun stuff, I too am using an IPC as my household server, but I'm >looking for something to play with on my desktop. >Cheers, >Chris >Christopher Menke wrote: >> >> I have a large Micromation computer, which I believe consists of a CPU, >> 10 MB 12 inch platter hard drive, and a ancillary box with two 8 inch >> floppies. Also included are two TeleVideo 900 terminals. >> >> Yours for the shipping, or the pickup, or trade for old Sun stuff if you >> wanna get rid of any. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris > >Hi! Thanks for your very gracious offer. Just out of curiousity, where >are you located? Depending on if you are nearby, I may be interested, >but if you are outside of the southwest Michigan area it would probably >be prohibitively expensive to ship the entire system. > >I've got some older Sun equipment around, nothing spectacular, however. >Primarily old SPARCstation IPC systems that actually would run fine >given hard drives, some RAM, and a live IDPROM. Lots of spare CG3 >SBus graphics cards too, but those are probably of limited interest. > >If you are out of my range, would it be alright if I were to forward >your offer to the classic computer collector's mailing list? If I am >not capable of finding a home for the system myself, I'm sure there >would be someone who would! > >Thanks again, > >--Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From chomko at greenbelt.com Wed Apr 25 21:36:10 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: se/30 disk weirdness References: Message-ID: <3AE78999.DBBCA80A@greenbelt.com> Try zapping the PRAM the next to you power the system up. I forget the exact keys to press when booting. Eric "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > I brought home an external FDHD for my SE/30 last night, to facilitate > retrocomputing tasks. Plugged it in, switched on the Mac, tested it out, > shut the Mac down, and unplugged the disk. > > Now, when the external drive is unplugged, the system somehow still thinks > it's there. > > I get a disk icon with an "x" in it at boot as it tries to boot from this > external drive which is not there and finds (surprise!) no system folder > on the disk. > > The system then goes on to boot more-or-less normally from the internal > SCSI disk. > > Once finder starts loading, I get a dialog box that (depending) says one > of two things: > > "This disk cannot be read by this Macintosh. (Eject) (Initialize)" with > the icon indicating the (non-present) external floppy. > > ~or~ > > "Initialization faild: disk is locked. (OK)" > > Dismissing these dialogs result in processing resuming normally for a > second or two, and then another identical dialog being thrown up. Repeat > ad infinitum, et ad nauseam. > > The internal disk drive continues to work normally (within the above > constraints). > > As soon as I reconnect the external disk drive, everything is happy again. > > As soon as I disconnect it... bang. Nose demons. > > I am utterly baffled. What's wrong? How do I fix it? > > ok > r. From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 25 21:34:28 2001 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: AS400 9404 /s References: <200104210440.VAA00704@shell1.aracnet.com> <4.1.20010421220451.009513a0@mail.intersurf.com> Message-ID: <001b01c0cdf9$6bd0a300$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I picked up 2 machines this evening for $20 (cdn) There are 2 9404's all the slots in the back are full, there are 3 HD's and 1 tape unit for each. I have a twinax box, an box of cables a 3151 terminal and another color one ( it still has a chamoix and maunal in the drawers!) There are 3 manuals a tape cleaning kit, a test tape and one other tape labeled type 9404 s/n 78-22340 and 21f3003 on the front. He threw in a Sparc 2 and a bag of RAM to close the deal, and said to call back in the mornig for a HP. From red at bears.org Wed Apr 25 21:37:24 2001 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: se/30 disk weirdness In-Reply-To: <3AE78999.DBBCA80A@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Eric Chomko wrote: > Try zapping the PRAM the next to you power the system up. I forget > the exact keys to press when booting. FWIW, I already tried that. In fact, I let it zap the PRAM three times in rapid succession. No love. ok r. From fruviad at coil.com Wed Apr 25 22:11:29 2001 From: fruviad at coil.com (Peter Kukla) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010425173523.0223f440@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Apr 25, 2001 05:36:21 PM Message-ID: <200104260311.XAA11503@bronze.coil.com> Ok... Reassured that I wouldn't trash a filesystem accidently, I rebooted it. And I took better notes this time. :-) I was indeed in Stand-alone backup: 41-D V1.0 F_..E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4...3...2_..1?.. ? C 0080 0000.4001 ?? 1 00C0 0011.700E >>> BOOT DKA300 -DKA300 OpenVMS VAX Version V6.1 Major version id = 1 Minor version id = 0 PLEASE ENTER DATE AND TIME (DD-MMM-YYYY HH:MM) 25-APR-2001 22:44 Configuring devices . . . Available device DKA300: device type RZ24 Available device MKA500: device type TZ30 Available device DKB200: device type RZ24 %BACKUP-I-IDENT, Stand-alone BACKUP V6.1; the date is 25-APR-2001 22:45:07:61 $ BACKUP %CLI-W-INSFPRM, missing command parameters - supply all required parameters ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- After digesting the above output, I tried booting to DKB200. That caused another disk inside to spin up (definitely louder than the first, but not necesarily to the point of screaming "I'm dead!"), but there's obviously a problem: >>> BOOT DKB200 ?42 NOSUCHFILE ?06 HLT INST PC = 00000C66 Well...time to research Stand-alone BACKUP, and maybe consider getting a new disk and some tapes? I'm booting off of the hard drives. There's a tape drive in the box, but I don't have any tapes for it. There's no CD drive... Peter From gene at ehrich.com Wed Apr 25 22:04:47 2001 From: gene at ehrich.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: PC-Jr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010425230212.00aed610@popmail.voicenet.com> At 07:24 PM 4/25/01 -0400, you wrote: >I would still think any memory expansion option would be counted up at POST Mine did all the way up to 640k >because the computer can boot with carts installed rather than floppy and >also, the standard pcjr model has no disk drives! The enhanced model that >everyone seems to have includes one floppy drive. The smaller of the two models had no disk drive, just a tape drive. The other model had one diskette drive. I added a second diskette drive. By the way if anyone is interested I have a couple of PCjr sidecars for sale on my web site. One is extra memory and the other is a printer sidecar. Gene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 25 22:43:06 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104260311.XAA11503@bronze.coil.com> from "Peter Kukla" at Apr 25, 2001 11:11:29 PM Message-ID: <200104260343.f3Q3h6505117@narnia.int.dittman.net> > After digesting the above output, I tried booting to DKB200. That caused > another disk inside to spin up (definitely louder than the first, but not > necesarily to the point of screaming "I'm dead!"), but there's obviously > a problem: > > >>> BOOT DKB200 > > > ?42 NOSUCHFILE > ?06 HLT INST > PC = 00000C66 This means there's no boot files on DKB200. You might try to see if VMS was installed using a root directory other than SYS0. Try B/x0000000, where x is from 0 to F. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dpeschel at eskimo.com Thu Apr 26 00:16:27 2001 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Longest running user group in history? In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Apr 23, 2001 09:46:48 AM Message-ID: <200104260516.WAA20854@eskimo.com> Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Is that the IBM users' group? Could they be the oldest? > > On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Kevin Schoedel wrote: > > > >> I thought this might make a fun thread. So who's older? Are there any older > > >> clubs still active? And isn't it sad that Wintel computers are so generic > > >> and boring that people don't form user's groups anymore? > > > > > > DECUS? > > > > SHARE, started in 1955, still exists. Aargh, upside-down quoting. Yes, that's the IBM user's group. It's pretty easy to list the institutions of the era, so all we have to do is see if any of them started user groups that still exist. :) I can think of these right away: US: University of Pennsylvania, Harvard, Princeton, Iowa State University (all built computers). MIT (an early user if not a builder). Some part of the military or government. Unisys (or whatever is the descendant of the Eckert-Mauchly Computer Corporation). AT&T and Bell Labs. UK: Manchester, Cambridge. Bletchley Park, NPL, some part of the millitary or government. Ferranti, ICL, Powers-Samas (I guess they're all ICT now). I don't know about other countries. If you count professional societies, the ACM was founded in 1947 (!?). Does anyone know of older ones? -- Derek From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Apr 26 05:06:22 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361295@exch002.softwright.co.uk> a couple of questions: does anyone have a spare 16MHz 68k CPU (or a source in the UK who may sell them - Maplins don't). There must be lots somewhere gathering dust since everyone moved to the later 68k family chips (all I have spare are the stock 8MHz versions). Lots of non-home-computer stuff seems to use them (phone exchanges, network equipment, video processing boxes etc.). also, does anyone know of anything that used 68450 chips? (they're 4-channel DMA controllers for the 68k apparently). I found a couple of these amongst the piles of junk I have and am curious as to where I might have got them - I can't think of anything I've ever stripped for parts which may have used them! :-) cheers Jules From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 26 06:28:36 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104260043.RAA19708@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <477.516T1800T7485813optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >The ODS-2 Filesystem if pretty stable. I've a friend who has the bad habit >of just hitting the Power Button on his VMS boxes. Me, I always shut them >down, if nothing else they boot faster :^) I have no respect for a system which needs to be pampered before one may hit the power switch, so nowadays, I just flick the switch when I feel like it, be the system Windows, Mac or UNIX. Haven't had the opportunity with VMS yet. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 26 07:39:44 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... References: <477.516T1800T7485813optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <00d701c0ce4d$f8e477e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have no respect for a system which needs to be > pampered before one may hit the power switch, I respect Apollo most for their solution. On the early models we had they had a soft shutdown switch right where the power switch was. You hit that one and it does the preliminaries and then off. >>>One button<<<, just the way it should be I think. Bill? Bill? Heellooo! (trying to yell over his stacks of cash) John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 26 08:39:53 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <477.516T1800T7485813optimus@canit.se> References: <200104260043.RAA19708@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426083353.01d81df0@pc> At 12:28 PM 4/26/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >I have no respect for a system which needs to be pampered before one may hit >the power switch, so nowadays, I just flick the switch when I feel like it, be >the system Windows, Mac or UNIX. Haven't had the opportunity with VMS yet. =) Even with today's journaling file systems, I'm puzzled by the shutdown message on my WinNT machine. It says something like "Writing unsaved data to disk". Why would some file system data remain in memory, even after minutes or hours of relative inactivity on the system? Even a few seconds would be an eternity for a CPU. Why would important data be deferred? My first suspicion is the registry. I suspect they're stuffing gunk back into it before shutdown. And then there's Win9x boxes that can't seem to shut down, ever, or some that seem to wait for a fail-safe timer to expire before they really shut down, while others seem to shut down nearly immediately. I don't see the point of not warning the OS that you're planning to hit the power button. You have no idea what scheduled event is about to write to the disk. Why not give it a chance? - John From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Apr 26 09:06:36 2001 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: IBM 7171 Terminal Controllers In-Reply-To: <3AE4FC8F.8A23159C@home.com> References: <3AE4FC8F.8A23159C@home.com> Message-ID: Actually, they're pretty big and white. -Bob > If anyone is interested ... there are a number of IBM 7171 that will be >coming available in the near future. I would expect the price to be in >the $100 range but as they are IBM .. they're probably HUGE and BLUE. >Any interest I can find out more info and pass it along privately. > Craig >Located in Virginia, Roanoke to be exact. bbrown@harper.cc.il.us #### #### Bob Brown - KB9LFR Harper Community College ## ## ## Systems Administrator Palatine IL USA #### #### Saved by grace From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 26 09:46:45 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <477.516T1800T7485813optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 26 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I have no respect for a system which needs to be pampered before one > may hit the power switch, so nowadays, I just flick the switch when > I feel like it, be the system Windows, Mac or UNIX. Haven't had the > opportunity with VMS yet. =) If that UNIX is Solaris 8, be prepared to fskc some filesystems manually when you power it back on. Even on my FreeBSD box and older Sun 4 that's running Solaris 2.4, both of which tend to come back up without any problems after a power failure, I still try to do a proper shutdown and halt... and yes, I still issue three sync commands before halting the system. Laugh at this superstition if you want to, but doing that on my Ultra running Solaris 8 seems to be the only way to get it to prepare it for powering off so that I don't have to do a manual fsck that prompts me for a lot of repetetive questions. Has anyone else here found older versions of Solaris on older hardware to be more stable? Anyway, to those running UNIX systems who are used to PeeCees running simpler operating systems and software, a word of advice: UNIX systems often have many processes running, some of which very well may be in the middle of writing to your hard disk when you switch the system off without a proper shutdown... particularly if you've got lots of things running like a database, have lots of cron jobs, have Apache running, etc. But, if you enjoy flirting with disaster and have good backups... -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Apr 26 10:24:04 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Apr 26, 1 10:46:45 am" Message-ID: <200104261524.IAA09680@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Has anyone else here found older versions of Solaris on older hardware > to be more stable? SunOS 4 is just as finicky about improperly unmounted filesystems. As well it should be -- I don't care to have a hidden bad block bite me in the butt. (Hmm, alliterative.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The world will end at 3 p.m. today, to be followed by a brief symposium. --- From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Apr 26 10:50:14 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879872@MAIL10> Hello, all: Does anyone have the listing for or a disk image of the 16k StarTrek for the Apple II? Rich From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Thu Apr 26 11:10:32 2001 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426083353.01d81df0@pc> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust Sent: 26 April 2001 14:40 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... "Even with today's journaling file systems, I'm puzzled by the shutdown message on my WinNT machine. It says something like "Writing unsaved data to disk". Why would some file system data remain in memory, even after minutes or hours of relative inactivity on the system? Even a few seconds would be an eternity for a CPU. Why would important data be deferred?" Isn't most of this time spent trying to get various system services to stop? I know that a machine with Exchange Server on will take ages. Notice there is *very* little disk activity during this period. Kevin From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 26 11:21:07 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Pardon the auction announcement... I'm unloading some truly rare Amiga items, particularly clothing in this batch - how about a CBM bag, an Amiga checkmark sweatshirt, or a t-shirt from the first Amiga "wake" party held in 1987? http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=jfoust@threedee.com For the classic-minded, there's an 8-port ISA serial card for a PC. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 26 11:32:29 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426083353.01d81df0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426112952.01cc7690@pc> At 05:10 PM 4/26/01 +0100, Kevin Murrell wrote: >"Writing unsaved data to disk". Why would some file system >data remain in memory, even after minutes or hours of relative > >Isn't most of this time spent trying to get various system services to stop? >I know that a machine with Exchange Server on will take ages. >Notice there is *very* little disk activity during this period. So why doesn't the message say "Halting system services"? :-) A message that suggests that critical data hasn't been written to disk isn't technically accurate, and I wouldn't call it marketing-friendly, either. Then again, it's not like WinNT is running the Space Station Alpha or anything really important. It's just my hard disk and data. - John From emu at ecubics.com Thu Apr 26 11:51:26 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426083353.01d81df0@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20010426112952.01cc7690@pc> Message-ID: <3AE8520E.AF070F12@ecubics.com> John Foust wrote: > > At 05:10 PM 4/26/01 +0100, Kevin Murrell wrote: > >"Writing unsaved data to disk". Why would some file system > >data remain in memory, even after minutes or hours of relative > > > >Isn't most of this time spent trying to get various system services to stop? > >I know that a machine with Exchange Server on will take ages. > >Notice there is *very* little disk activity during this period. > > So why doesn't the message say "Halting system services"? :-) because it is neither a system, nor does it any service to you ? ;-) > Then again, it's not like WinNT is running the Space Station Alpha > or anything really important. It's just my hard disk and data. And data are safe anyway. (being on a different machine, runing an OS) Because you use this Win*&*& just as a terminal ;-) cheers From chomko at greenbelt.com Thu Apr 26 11:52:39 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <3AE85257.D36A7CD6@greenbelt.com> John Foust wrote: > Pardon the auction announcement... I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp for classic cmp related material. But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail list. Anyone like to clarify? Eric > > > I'm unloading some truly rare Amiga items, particularly clothing in > this batch - how about a CBM bag, an Amiga checkmark sweatshirt, or > a t-shirt from the first Amiga "wake" party held in 1987? > > http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=jfoust@threedee.com > > For the classic-minded, there's an 8-port ISA serial card for a PC. > > - John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010426/9cdafd14/attachment.html From bdc at world.std.com Thu Apr 26 12:09:29 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426112952.01cc7690@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, John Foust wrote: > [...] > > Then again, it's not like WinNT is running the Space Station Alpha > or anything really important. It's just my hard disk and data. > > - John I have to half-wonder if you're not being sarcastic here. The following is taken from the publicly available logs of the first ISS crew: FROM: ALPHA TO: MCC-H MCC-M HSG-M SHIP'S LOG 22 FEB The day really gets off to a bad start. The server connection to the net is down hard. We worked on it last night until 0100 and could not bring it up. We were doing the file server part of network reconfiguration yesterday. This moved the FS to the lab-we also extended the Ethernet lan from the Node into the lab (not part of the procedure). This allowed the server to rejoin the network without delay, rather than waiting much later when the RF access points are set up. The plan was working well, and the server was online from mid afternoon. At about 2200, we were reconfiguring some mail files which, with a lot of help from Windows NT, got put in the wrong place during the backup procedure. When we finished restoring the files, the network was down and would not come back up. We worked this for several hours. Finally, jiggling some cables brings just a part of the net back. (that really instills confidence in the stability of your network). So as of 0700, we have to use the OCA machine for daily planning. Fortunately, ground has uplinked everything to the OCA's directories, so at least we have what we need onboard. But when we try and print, the printer locks up. It is not happy with the net now either. So Shep and Sergei start trying to figure out what is going on. After trying lots of other computer tricks that don't work, we put another network card in the server and that seems to fix the server problem. We power cycle the printer and that comes back. We are having a hard time understanding the how and why, but everything is working. [...] -brian. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 26 12:11:46 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: <3AE85257.D36A7CD6@greenbelt.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426120736.01d23ec0@pc> At 12:52 PM 4/26/01 -0400, Eric Chomko wrote: >John Foust wrote: >>Pardon the auction announcement... > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp >for classic cmp related material. >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail list. Anyone like to clarify? This is almost as much fun as debating eBay itself. I think if an announcement is polite and infrequent, it'll be tolerated as much on this list as say, ranting, raving, foaming at the mouth, swearing, declaring someone an idiot, demonstrating one's idiocy, or droning interminably about some obscure hardware item that only one person owns and understands. And besides, some of my items were truly RARE. Get them now for your museum! All items start at $1 and auctions end in 5 days. - John From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Apr 26 01:56:07 2001 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:15:23 BST." Message-ID: <200104260656.HAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: [things about TRS-80 ModelIII] Thanks for the correction, I never used a MIII much, I had a Model I from the very early days. > Agreed, LDOS is much nicer than TRS-DOS. Since LDOS is essentially free > now, there's no excuse not to use it! > I always thought it was a pity they didn't port it to IBM PCs, moving from LDOS to MSDOS 2 felt like a severe downgrade! -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 26 12:26:43 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426112952.01cc7690@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426122546.01de4cc0@pc> At 12:09 PM 4/26/01 -0500, Brian Chase wrote: >I have to half-wonder if you're not being sarcastic here. The following >is taken from the publicly available logs of the first ISS crew: Me, sarcastic? > Finally, jiggling some cables brings just a part of the net back. (that > really instills confidence in the stability of your network). At least some of the old tricks still work in microgravity. It just goes to show you, you *do* need to be a rocket scientist to keep a WinNT server going. - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Apr 26 12:29:28 2001 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: <3AE85257.D36A7CD6@greenbelt.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010426132216.009eb650@mailhost.intellistar.net> Eric, We had this discussion about a year ago and the majority decided that it was Ok to announce auctions on this list as long as the items being auctioned were appropriate to this list. FWIW I'm posting some stuff on E-bay right now including some Exabyte tape drives, SCO OpenServer SW, HP-85 manuals and ROMs. I'm adding more as fast as I can. See "http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=rigdonj@intellistar.net" Joe At 12:52 PM 4/26/01 -0400, you wrote: >John Foust wrote: >>Pardon the auction announcement... > > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts >are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp >for classic cmp related material. >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail >list. Anyone like to clarify? > >Eric > >> >> >>I'm unloading some truly rare Amiga items, particularly clothing in >>this batch - how about a CBM bag, an Amiga checkmark sweatshirt, or >>a t-shirt from the first Amiga "wake" party held in 1987? >> >>http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=jfoust@threedee.com >> >> >>For the classic-minded, there's an 8-port ISA serial card for a PC. >> >>- John From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 26 12:41:11 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426112952.01cc7690@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010426103952.01f099c8@208.226.86.10> And in case you think Brian was pulling your leg, here is the link to the original text from the NASA web site. Yes indeed boys and girls, if you choose to visit Alpha you put your life in Microsoft NT's hands... At 12:09 PM 4/26/2001 -0500, Brian Chase wrote: >I have to half-wonder if you're not being sarcastic here. The following >is taken from the publicly available logs of the first ISS crew: From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 26 12:41:11 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426112952.01cc7690@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010426103952.01f099c8@208.226.86.10> And in case you think Brian was pulling your leg, here is the link to the original text from the NASA web site. Yes indeed boys and girls, if you choose to visit Alpha you put your life in Microsoft NT's hands... At 12:09 PM 4/26/2001 -0500, Brian Chase wrote: >I have to half-wonder if you're not being sarcastic here. The following >is taken from the publicly available logs of the first ISS crew: From bdc at world.std.com Thu Apr 26 12:42:53 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426122546.01de4cc0@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, John Foust wrote: > At least some of the old tricks still work in microgravity. > It just goes to show you, you *do* need to be a rocket scientist > to keep a WinNT server going. Rocket scientist? Ahh well THAT'S their problem. On the next shuttle flight they really should be sending up a Haitian voodoo priest. -brian. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 26 13:18:55 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: <3AE85257.D36A7CD6@greenbelt.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: > John Foust wrote: > >Pardon the auction announcement... > > > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts >are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp >for classic cmp related material. >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail >list. Anyone like to clarify? > >Eric Rules, we have no rules, only complaints. ;) People on this list do what they want, those that don't like it complain, but we have no police, and I don't think anybody has ever been booted off. That said, if you want to offer something to the list, offer it to the list. Trying to get a few more bidders on your ebay auction is typically seen as merchantile, not friendly, activity. Regardless of the above I say if its stuff people on the list will want, post it, but be a man about the criticism, because YES you are doing it for the money, not the pure pursuit of junk collecting. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Apr 26 14:05:01 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879872@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Apr 26, 2001 11:50:14 AM Message-ID: <200104261905.NAA24342@calico.litterbox.com> I have it in David Aho's book "More Basic Computer Games". I had a scanned image of each page of the listing on my web page for quite a while, but I removed it. If nobody else gets back to you let me know and I'll dig up the images or scan 'em again. > > Hello, all: > > Does anyone have the listing for or a disk image of the 16k StarTrek > for the Apple II? > > Rich > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 26 14:14:00 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361295@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <20010426191400.76282.qmail@web9503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julian Richardson wrote: > > a couple of questions: > > does anyone have a spare 16MHz 68k CPU... Was the MC68000-12 rated to 16Mhz, or did people just run it that fast? I remember it was an issue for people who tried to clock-double their A500s. > also, does anyone know of anything that used 68450 chips? (they're 4-channel > DMA controllers for the 68k apparently). I've seen at least one Amiga peripheral that used a Motorola DMA chip (forget if it was 2-channel or 4-channel). Microbotics SCSI? Software Results had a WAN router box that was never released, that used a 68450 per serial card for high-performance serial (vs the non-DMA 8-port low performance card). I doubt if you got it from that - I have the boxes (and 8-layer boards!) up in the attic. ISTR they used 600 RPM 3.5" drives, too. In the Motorola world, DMA went on the peripheral; in the Intel world, DMA went on the motherboard. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 14:12:32 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Apple /// In-Reply-To: <200104252006.PAA92531@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Hi Steve, How much would you be after for the Apple ///? I understand shipping might be expensive :) And the Mac portable for that matter..... > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:55:03 -0700 (PDT) > From: steve > Subject: Computers for swap or sell > > Hi, > > I have some extra systems, see if there's anything > that you like! > > 1.Apple IIc with monitor (small green screen) > 2.Apple IIc Plus > 3.Apple III with Monitor III > > 4.Macintosh Portable (model 5120) cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From aknight at mindspring.com Thu Apr 26 15:02:55 2001 From: aknight at mindspring.com (aknight@mindspring.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... Message-ID: Ethan Dicks wrote: >Was the MC68000-12 rated to 16Mhz, or did people just run >it that fast? I remember it was an issue for people who >tried to clock-double their A500s. Motorola made a version of their MC68HC000 that ran at 16MHz. Back in the late 80's I was doing processor design for Nortel switching equipment and we had some applications that were written for the 68000 that would have taken too much work to convert software over for the 68020 (a lot of our stuff ran in supervisor mode, not user mode). SGS-Thompson was a licensee for the 68K family, and was the first company that produced a 16 MHz 68000. I think theirs was NMOS, not CMOS (it sure got warm). One day the Motorola guys brought in one of their sales managers to try do drum up business for their 68020 and I showed them the SGS-T part and asked them if they had anything like that. The answer was "we'll get back to you on that", which was then followed up with "you can use our 12 MHz 68HC000, run it at 16 MHz at room temperature for development, and soon we can provide screened parts that will run at 16 MHz". Eventually they did provide MC68HC000-16 parts. Regards, Alex The Calculator Museum Web Page http://www.calcmuseum.com From claudew at videotron.ca Thu Apr 26 15:47:30 2001 From: claudew at videotron.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:43 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Well, my two cents... I think advertising items on ebay or any other auction site is kinda really not in it's place here. Ebay or any other auction site does not "equate" (can I say that?...I am french) with the "true-spirit" of collecting classic computers IMO...It has not helped a lot the collecting hobby IMO and has driven the price of a lot of stuff to ridiculous levels...like .com stocks...that I owned a few of...and that are worth a lot less now...but thats another story... I always taught classiccmp was for "true" collectors...not resellers...now whats a "true" collector is different for everyone, but think of why you do this for a minute and how much classic computers you have sold compared to how many you have traded, given away, restored or "played with" recently and you can figure out why you do this... >From what I understand, the stuff offered here should be giveaways or trades....stuff I have done in the past and stuff that should be happenning more here...unless most of the people here are in this to make money? As for stuff being RARE on ebay, almost everything is RARE on ebay from the point of view of the seller from what I can see... I don't know how this sounds but : When I am at the point of going through all the hassles of packing and shipping and ebaying to make $5-$10, Ill question myself about my financial situation and ebaying will not be my first taught for changing that...but thats just me... Claude Canuk Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ford To: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:18 PM Subject: Re: Amiga items on eBay > > John Foust wrote: > > > >Pardon the auction announcement... > > > > > > > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts > >are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp > >for classic cmp related material. > >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail > >list. Anyone like to clarify? > > > >Eric > > Rules, we have no rules, only complaints. ;) > > People on this list do what they want, those that don't like it complain, > but we have no police, and I don't think anybody has ever been booted off. > > That said, if you want to offer something to the list, offer it to the list. > > Trying to get a few more bidders on your ebay auction is typically seen as > merchantile, not friendly, activity. > > Regardless of the above I say if its stuff people on the list will want, > post it, but be a man about the criticism, because YES you are doing it for > the money, not the pure pursuit of junk collecting. > > From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Apr 26 15:54:12 2001 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: PDP 11/70 in Italy References: Message-ID: <3AE88AF4.76E30611@softstar.it> There will be shortly one or more PDP 11/70 available in Torino, Italy. Unfortunately I have no longer room in my collection. If anybody is interested please contact me via email for more info; if no one shows up they will go to the dumpster. 8-( Cheers e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 26 16:27:26 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010426140807.01ac65b0@208.226.86.10> An interesting point. At 04:47 PM 4/26/2001 -0400, you wrote: > From what I understand, the stuff offered here should be giveaways or >trades....stuff I have done in the past and stuff that should be happenning >more here...unless most of the people here are in this to make money? Executive Summary: Some people here live and die by what they sell on Ebay and here and elsewhere. Some people don't. We need both kinds of people in our community. Some people, like myself, sell things (and buy things!) on Ebay to support our collections. --Chuck ---- Original rambling message I wrote: My approach is as follows: I am, by every definition, a "caretaker" of classic computer gear. I have systems that span the gamut from very common (MicroVAX II) to relatively rare (PDP 5). I don't make a "living" off selling things either on Ebay or at a retail establishment and my real "job" is primarily engineering on modern networking gear. The activity of collecting, restoring, operating, and documenting classic computers takes time, money, energy, and motivation. Time and energy are what everyone invests and money is the thing that gets us more stuff to preserve. In order to keep things "rational" I have limited my focus to basically DEC Q-bus VAXen, PDP-8's, the -5 and a couple of PDP-11's. This constrains my overall costs as well since my entire collection can fit into a single garage if it isn't all powered up at once :-) I support my collection in three ways: 1) I invest time and energy in locating and transporting useful items. 2) I invest money in acquiring things that I can't find elsewhere. 3) I trade or sell excess parts in order to fund 1 and 2 above. Generally, selling things on Ebay is a PITA because there is packing and shipping issues in addition to checks and paying and feedback etc. However, sometimes I'll pick up something in the process of doing 1 or 2 above that is not relevant to my collection, but by selling it I can continue to fund things that _are_ relevant to my collection (the GRiD portables were exactly that situation) By selling them I am able to fund the acquisition of things that I need for my collection. Trading things on this list is sometimes effective (I've done that too) and I often give away things to other collectors things that might help them in their collection because it is a win-win situation. However there aren't many things I would trade a CBM collector for since I don't have any CBM gear, however if I pick up a C128D on a pallet of VAXen (I recently saw an Amiga 500 in this situation) then I might sell them the C128D to help offset my acquisition costs or to get something else I need. Do I advertise my auctions on this list? No. Why? Because if you're looking for these things on Ebay then you will find my auctions. Is advertising effective? You bet. When people other than myself have spread word about something I'm selling to a list it has increased bids quite a bit. Is it unethical to advertise? Hell no, its the backbone of commerce! --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Thu Apr 26 16:50:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1759.516T2250T13706271optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On 26 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> I have no respect for a system which needs to be pampered before one >> may hit the power switch, so nowadays, I just flick the switch when >> I feel like it, be the system Windows, Mac or UNIX. Haven't had the >> opportunity with VMS yet. =) >If that UNIX is Solaris 8, be prepared to fskc some filesystems >manually when you power it back on. Even on my FreeBSD box and older >Sun 4 that's running Solaris 2.4, both of which tend to come back up >without any problems after a power failure, I still try to do a proper >shutdown and halt... and yes, I still issue three sync commands before >halting the system. Laugh at this superstition if you want to, but >doing that on my Ultra running Solaris 8 seems to be the only way to >get it to prepare it for powering off so that I don't have to do a >manual fsck that prompts me for a lot of repetetive questions. NetBSD and OpenBSD boxes seem to boot fine, albeit slowly. >Anyway, to those running UNIX systems who are used to PeeCees running >simpler operating systems and software, a word of advice: UNIX systems >often have many processes running, some of which very well may be in >the middle of writing to your hard disk when you switch the system off >without a proper shutdown... particularly if you've got lots of things >running like a database, have lots of cron jobs, have Apache running, >etc. But, if you enjoy flirting with disaster and have good >backups... So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive lights aren't on. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Ky?suke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 26 12:49:27 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426122546.01de4cc0@pc> References: Message-ID: <20010426214733.KGYM17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:26:43 -0500 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: John Foust > Subject: RE: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > At 12:09 PM 4/26/01 -0500, Brian Chase wrote: > >I have to half-wonder if you're not being sarcastic here. The following > >is taken from the publicly available logs of the first ISS crew: > > Me, sarcastic? Good thing you should be. I agree w/ u. > > > Finally, jiggling some cables brings just a part of the net back. (that > > really instills confidence in the stability of your network). > > At least some of the old tricks still work in microgravity. > It just goes to show you, you *do* need to be a rocket scientist > to keep a WinNT server going. What!? NT is out there!? That ISS crew shouldn't have NT up there. It is not rated for that kind of reliablity. Down here, fine, but not up there with everything depending on that thing. They should stick with something more proven like IBM AIX, VMS, or Linux and non-standard but reliable and proven hardware and wires rather than RJ-45 and such. Cheers, Wizard disgusted with this decision to chose NT for space applications, >:-P But I'm anxious to cheer on that Canadarm2. :-D > - John From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Thu Apr 26 16:47:55 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: se/30 disk weirdness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010426144755.007d0100@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Are you sure you're not running Windows on your SE/30? Usually it's Windows that gives me the silliest messages. All kidding aside I figure something's up with the external floppy port or the floppy controller chip in the computer. Somehow it keeps telling the Mac system a disk has been inserted in the external drive. Does this external FDHD give the same problems to other Macs you have? Dare you try, because this external FDHD might be screwing up the floppy controller of every Mac you plug it into? The Mac boot sequence is floppy(ies), then SCSI. Holding down the mouse button while starting up will prevent the Mac from trying to boot from the phantom external disk, but you will still have problems with the Mac system attempting to initialize a phantom external floppy. The Startup item in the Control Panel won't help (are you using System 6?) because that relates only to SCSI devices. Maybe something in the external floppy port is shorted or not grounded. Find the pin assignments and test them. The quickest solution is to toss your board out the window and get another SE/30 board. Regards, Edwin At 17:49 4/25/01 -0400, you wrote: > >I brought home an external FDHD for my SE/30 last night, to facilitate >retrocomputing tasks. Plugged it in, switched on the Mac, tested it out, >shut the Mac down, and unplugged the disk. > >Now, when the external drive is unplugged, the system somehow still thinks >it's there. >ok >r. > > From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Apr 26 17:41:44 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... Message-ID: <20010426224144.74E3320F6D@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-04-26 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said >I respect Apollo most for their solution. >On the early models we had they had a soft shutdown >switch right where the power switch was. You hit that >one and it does the preliminaries and then off. >>>>One button<<<, just the way it should be I think. The AT&T 3B2 does this too. Very nice indeed. I wish more machines had this feature. My old DEC 486 laptop did it even better: you hit the switch, it goes off instantly, and when you hit the switch again it came right back up where it was, no rebooting, no scratching on the disk, just instant on. Amazing. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Apr 26 17:41:52 2001 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) Message-ID: <20010426224152.3FF9920F4A@mail.iae.nl> On 2001-04-26 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >What!? NT is out there!? >That ISS crew shouldn't have NT up there. It is not rated for >that kind of reliablity. Down here, fine, but not up there with >everything depending on that thing. The Windows computers in the ISS are not performing critical tasks. The tasks that matter are performed by custom built machines with their own real time os. The Windows machines only look at what the real computers are doing. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers (Mirrors: http://vaxarchive.khubla.com/ and http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/) Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From bdc at world.std.com Thu Apr 26 17:43:07 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: <20010426214733.KGYM17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > What!? NT is out there!? > > That ISS crew shouldn't have NT up there. It is not rated for > that kind of reliablity. Down here, fine, but not up there with > everything depending on that thing. They should stick with something > more proven like IBM AIX, VMS, or Linux and non-standard but reliable > and proven hardware and wires rather than RJ-45 and such. > > Cheers, > > Wizard disgusted with this decision to chose NT for space > applications, >:-P But I'm anxious to cheer on that Canadarm2. > :-D Yeah, I just hope Canadarm2 comes with the three fingers necessary to press the giant CTRL+ALT+DEL buttons on the side of the Destiny Laboratory module. -brian. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 17:11:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Repair techniques ... I/O pins and power supplies In-Reply-To: <3AE7778C.8C78795@bresnanlink.net> from "Michael Brutman" at Apr 25, 1 08:19:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3256 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010426/d5ff3da2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 17:20:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: <200104260656.HAA21364@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 26, 1 07:56:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1041 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010426/68bc744e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 17:54:44 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD361295@exch002.softwright.co.uk> from "Julian Richardson" at Apr 26, 1 11:06:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 519 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010426/480193a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 17:56:47 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <00d701c0ce4d$f8e477e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 26, 1 08:39:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 670 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010426/d6e0c030/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 26 18:27:48 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Bainbridge Is., WA. mac and pc In-Reply-To: <20010426224144.74E3320F6D@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: There is a ebay auction closing in 3 days for a truckload (small one) PICK UP ONLY on Bainbridge Is., WA. Part of the lot is a IIg laserprinter, and I would really kind of like the motherboard from one of those. Full details at From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Apr 26 18:47:16 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > John Foust wrote: > > > >Pardon the auction announcement... > > > > > > > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts > >are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp > >for classic cmp related material. > >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail > >list. Anyone like to clarify? > > > >Eric > > Rules, we have no rules, only complaints. ;) > or complainers... ... > People on this list do what they want, those that don't like it complain, > but we have no police, and I don't think anybody has ever been booted off. > > That said, if you want to offer something to the list, offer it to the list. > > Trying to get a few more bidders on your ebay auction is typically seen as > merchantile, not friendly, activity. > I'm curious... Has anyone here purchased something from EBay that they wouldn't have found unless the advertisement showed up here? I believe that if people are going to buy something from EBay, they already have searches set up or email announcements, and don't need to see the announcement here. The people that HATE EBay don't want to see the announcement because it only pisses them off. So, I vote for no EBay advertisements. Especially the one line http://www.ebay.com/... kind with no supporting text. Many of us don't read email with a HTTP degraded browser. Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? Clint From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 26 14:56:30 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Bainbridge Is., WA. mac and pc In-Reply-To: References: <20010426224144.74E3320F6D@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <20010426235436.KNWR28050.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:27:48 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Bainbridge Is., WA. mac and pc > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > There is a ebay auction closing in 3 days for a truckload (small > one) PICK UP ONLY on Bainbridge Is., WA. > > Part of the lot is a IIg laserprinter, and I would really kind of > like the motherboard from one of those. Full details at > > 78699> Groan!! Wants wants... local pick up required aww. :-O Well, I'd love to have that power pc 6100 machine and Quadra 605... if someone on that can manage to win that auction then gather them up. Then split the bonanza pile for small cost and shipping for anybody who needs stuff, you could make some good cash than what cost you won off that ebay. Cheers, Wizard From blacklord at telstra.com Thu Apr 26 18:58:12 2001 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:57 am Subject: Re: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? > > There is no such thing as a simple cable to interconnect the two. > For many years I used a standard null modem cable to connect my PC's with my A1000 to transfer software between them, can't get much simpler than that. Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Apr 26 18:54:11 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: Hi Claude, On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Claude.W wrote: > Well, my two cents... Are those Canadian or American cents :) > > I think advertising items on ebay or any other auction site is kinda really > not in it's place here. > > Ebay or any other auction site does not "equate" (can I say that?...I am > french) with the "true-spirit" of collecting classic computers IMO... Your grammar is fine. > It has > not helped a lot the collecting hobby IMO and has driven the price of a lot > of stuff to ridiculous levels...like .com stocks... that I owned a few > of...and that are worth a lot less now...but thats another story... > In some ways, I believe EBay has helped the hobby by putting real value on items which would otherwise end up in the trash. If you thought you could get $100 for an old TV would you throw it away? Or would you try to sell it? Granted, the prices of some stuff has gotten ridiculous, but that seems to be true in general (a sign of getting old, perhaps?) > I always taught classiccmp was for "true" collectors...not resellers...now > whats a "true" collector is different for everyone, but think of why you do > this for a minute and how much classic computers you have sold compared to > how many you have traded, given away, restored or "played with" recently and > you can figure out why you do this... > > >From what I understand, the stuff offered here should be giveaways or > trades....stuff I have done in the past and stuff that should be happenning > more here...unless most of the people here are in this to make money? > > As for stuff being RARE on ebay, almost everything is RARE on ebay from the > point of view of the seller from what I can see... > > I don't know how this sounds but : When I am at the point of going through > all the hassles of packing and shipping and ebaying to make $5-$10, Ill > question myself about my financial situation and ebaying will not be my > first taught for changing that...but thats just me... > > Claude > Canuk Computer Collector > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > clint From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 26 19:00:25 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting... (now WinNT shutdown) In-Reply-To: <20010426224152.3FF9920F4A@mail.iae.nl> References: <20010426224152.3FF9920F4A@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: >The Windows computers in the ISS are not performing critical tasks. >The tasks that matter are performed by custom built machines with >their own real time os. The Windows machines only look at what the >real computers are doing. Finally, a Windows machine that knows it's place Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 19:11:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: from "blacklord" at Apr 27, 1 09:58:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 874 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/49f624a9/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Apr 26 19:21:07 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ebay URL's I've posted here on occasion have been items I've run across that I think other's might be interested in that may not appear that often, such as the Tandy CM-1, monitor I posted a couple of weeks ago. CM-1's have always been difficult to get a hold of and quite desirable for those with a graphics card that supports it. I certainly wouldn't post a reference to every PC-XT or Mac II that gets put up for sale on there, but I look at it as trying to help people out, just like similar posts for anywhere else that people find classic computer stuff. Jeff >I'm curious... Has anyone here purchased something from EBay that >they wouldn't have found unless the advertisement showed up here? > >I believe that if people are going to buy something from EBay, they >already have searches set up or email announcements, and don't need >to see the announcement here. The people that HATE EBay don't want >to see the announcement because it only pisses them off. > >So, I vote for no EBay advertisements. Especially the one line >http://www.ebay.com/... kind with no supporting text. Many of >us don't read email with a HTTP degraded browser. > >Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? > >Clint > -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From elecdata at kcinter.net Thu Apr 26 19:28:41 2001 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay References: Message-ID: <3AE8BD39.F8113BC8@kcinter.net> I don't mind seeing the announcement, but if I and I have was going to sell something on ebay or any other auction site, I would offer it to the group first for a charge if I have money invested in it and let them know that I will be putting it afterwards at what ever dot com. I don't have a problem with it. Bill Claussen elecdata1 "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > > John Foust wrote: > > > > > >Pardon the auction announcement... > > > > > > > > > > > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts > > >are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp > > >for classic cmp related material. > > >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail > > >list. Anyone like to clarify? > > > > > >Eric > > > > Rules, we have no rules, only complaints. ;) > > > > or complainers... ... > > > People on this list do what they want, those that don't like it complain, > > but we have no police, and I don't think anybody has ever been booted off. > > > > That said, if you want to offer something to the list, offer it to the list. > > > > Trying to get a few more bidders on your ebay auction is typically seen as > > merchantile, not friendly, activity. > > > > I'm curious... Has anyone here purchased something from EBay that > they wouldn't have found unless the advertisement showed up here? > > I believe that if people are going to buy something from EBay, they > already have searches set up or email announcements, and don't need > to see the announcement here. The people that HATE EBay don't want > to see the announcement because it only pisses them off. > > So, I vote for no EBay advertisements. Especially the one line > http://www.ebay.com/... kind with no supporting text. Many of > us don't read email with a HTTP degraded browser. > > Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? > > Clint > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Apr 26 20:36:09 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010427013609.11487.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > also, does anyone know of anything that used 68450 chips? > > In a 64 pin DIL package or a 68 pin (?) PGA package? The ones I've seen were 64 pin DIL for the 4-channel and, I think, 40 or 48 pin DIL for the two channel. I've never seen a PGA version myself. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 26 20:42:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: <20010427013609.11487.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 26, 1 06:36:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 624 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/b09601bc/attachment.ksh From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 26 20:37:11 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > A number of workstations I have here do much the same thing. You shut > them down (either by typing a command or pressing a physical switch), > they sync the filesystems, etc and then turn off their own power. > > The PERQ 1 (and 1a), PERQ 3a, Whitechapel MG1, Torch XXX and XXXX, etc > all did this. Of course, if the PERQs were running PNX, didn't doing this usually necessitate an fsck? I don't recall PNX being very forgiving when the system wasn't shutdown properly. For those not familiar with PNX, it's basically 7th Edition UNIX with some System III additions and some PERQ hardware specific features. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 26 20:33:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, blacklord wrote: > For many years I used a standard null modem cable to connect my PC's > with my A1000 to transfer software between them, can't get much simpler > than that. As someone on this list reminded me years ago: there's really no such thing as a null-modem cable, but there is such a thing as a cable with pins 2 and 3 crossed, etc. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Apr 26 21:01:20 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <1759.516T2250T13706271optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: This reminds me of Homer Simpson using his handgun to turn off the TV. On 26 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that > won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive lights > aren't on. > -- From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 26 20:26:25 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: > I liked LDOS (nicest of the Z80 OSes that I've used -- a lot better than > CP/M for example), but I liked OS-9 (on the CoCo) even more. Will LDOS run on other Z80 machines, and does OS-9 run on any other systems? Back when I was deciding on my first computer (ok, well, my first digital computer... I had one of those Radio Shack "computers" with slide switches and light-bulbs, that one programmed by connecting wires to the switches years earlier---BTW, I found the original box-top for it in the basement several months ago!), I'd narrowed my choices to three machines: a Commodore 64, Radio Shack Color Computer (CoCo) and a Texas Instruments 99A. I came very close to purchasing the CoCo, but I think it was out of stock, or somesuch. Then, I re-read an article in Popular Electronics (or was it Popular Computing by then? I'll have to check.) that went into detail about the circuitry in the C-64 and it's video and sound chips; a fascinating article (I'm guessing that many others here may have read it as well). The most fun that I had with the C64 was with a sound-synthesis program, but loading programs to, and saving them from, cassette tapes was somewhat of a pain towards the end, but fun at first. :-) ...I wonder if that tape is still readable if I can find it. Over time, and after finding it a pain to do all that PEEKing and POKEing, and tiring of BASIC, I'd wished that I'd bought the CoCo instead. > And yes, MS-DOS was inferior to LDOS. I particularly liked the SET and > FILTER commands in LDOS -- it made interfacing homebrew hardware to the > standard applications so easy. That's what more computers need. Of course, I don't think that large companies really want lots of people, such as beginning electronics hobbyists and others with minimal electronics knowledge, to have an easy way to perform hardware hacking and learn more about it; the more difficult it is---or at least appears, and the more difficult it is for people to buy reasonably priced things to hack with in local retail stores, the better for them, as they can sell more mass-produced, and annoyingly engineered, rubbish---where they eliminate good features that would make a noticeable difference in the product's usefuleness just to keep costs down so they can sell the product for less, or else sell it for a ridiculously high price and have a large profit margin. Just my 2-cents worth of ranting and grumbling. :-) RDD -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 26 21:16:29 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 26, 2001 10:46:45 AM Message-ID: <200104270216.TAA13577@shell1.aracnet.com> > Has anyone else here found older versions of Solaris on older hardware > to be more stable? Define older hardware. On my Sparc 10 and 20 I run Solaris 2.6 as it's the last version to support some of the hardware I use. Though I've been threatening to move the Sparc 20 to Solaris 8 when I upgrade its harddrives. > Anyway, to those running UNIX systems who are used to PeeCees running > simpler operating systems and software, a word of advice: UNIX systems > often have many processes running, some of which very well may be in > the middle of writing to your hard disk when you switch the system off > without a proper shutdown... particularly if you've got lots of things > running like a database, have lots of cron jobs, have Apache running, > etc. But, if you enjoy flirting with disaster and have good > backups... I'll put it another way, if you have the chance to shut a UNIX box down properly and don't, you're a fool. Especially if the system is like my one Linux box and has a lot of disk space hanging off of it (about 70GB), as that's some serious fsck time! Personally if a system has an option to shut it down gracefully, that's what I do, no matter the OS. Zane From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Apr 26 21:19:33 2001 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod 12 for sale Message-ID: <200104270221.f3R2Ld200520@grover.winsite.com> Hi, gang. A couple of years ago, I dove headlong into the old computer collecting thing, thinking naively that I was doing something unique. I was going to build a great online museum, and have all these neat machines displayed thoughout my house and possibly at the local university. Then I discovered this list, and realized that not only was I not alone in my pursuits, but that I was also small potatoes compared to some of you. Plus, the collection started to take over the basement, as they are wont to do. I also design theatrical sound effects, and I'm trying to build a small project studio here in the basement. That endeavour has taken over most of my free time. So, I started paring down the collection to a few choice pieces plus those with sentimental value to me. I did a entire display at the local library of Tandy equipment last year. I realized, while setting it up and subsequently taking it down, that I should keep the Model 1, the 100 & 200, the Pocket, and the Micro CoCo and jettison the rest of the Tandy collection. Rather than put this sucker on ebay, I thought I'd give first shot to my extended cyberfamily here on the list. I'm going to start with a Model 12, with two 8" floppy drives, keyboard, and two external 20mb hard drives. Don't know how well it works, but I was told that it booted last time it was powered up. I don't have any software other than what's loaded on the hd's. I've realized that I just don't have the time and no longer have the inclination to mess with all of this stuff, so it should go to someone who does. As I said, this is going in the kitty to finance the purchase of a synth or two for the studio, so I would like to get something out of it. This one wasn't a freebie for me. Also, if you know what one is, you know how bulky and heavy they are, so I would like to limit it to pickup in the Northwest Indiana/Chicago area. Valparaiso is about halfway between Chicago and South Bend, Indiana. Actually, I don't care where you live. If you're willing to drive to Valpo, that's fine with me. If you have problems with this email address, as my provider filters based on ORBS and sometimes things get stuck, use my work address pbraun@olivellp.com. I'll take the best offer as of Tuesday May 1st at midnight. Depending on how this goes, I have more Tandy pieces that I'll put up here first instead of ebay. I also have a mess of Bytes from the early 80's on that I'll offer as soon as I get 'em sorted, hopefully this weekend. Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 26 21:31:25 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Thompson wrote: > This reminds me of Homer Simpson using his handgun to turn off the TV. That reminds me, I'd like to hear a parody of the song "Bubba Shot the Jukebox" called it "Bubba Shot his PeeCee"... [...] Bubba shot the Jukebox last night, Said it played a sad song and made him cry. [...] becomes... [...] Bubba shot his PeeCee last night, Said Windoze crashed real bad and lost his files. [...] RDD -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rcini at optonline.net Thu Apr 26 21:36:34 2001 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: TrackStar E usage Message-ID: Hello, all: Well, I've finally gotten around to playing with the Diamond TrackStar board. Has anyone gotten this to work successfully? I've downloaded all info that I can find relating to the TS, but it only includes the "hardware" portion of the install manual. Does anyone have the "software" portion of the manual? Anyway, here's where I am so far: The board's installed and the software that I have seems to recognize the board and allow me to do certain things, like configuring the drive slots and assigning PC ports to the virtual Apple ports. I was also able to create a 10mb ProDOS volume on the C drive of this test system (a 486/66 with 16mb of RAM). I have a genuine Apple ][ floppy drive connected to the TS. I can "boot" the Apple ][ drive, but it does not seem to recognize the disk. I've tried ProDOS8 and DOS 3.3 disks, neither one of which works. I did have the cable upside down initially, and then reversed it. The drive light comes on at the right time, so I'm hoping that I did not trash the drive. The TS has a composite video output, so I figure that I can connect it to the Apple Color monitor I use for the ][+ I have. All I get is yellow streaks. I don't have a generic 9-pin RGB monitor to try the direct video output. I also noticed that the TS has an empty 16-pin socket at position U63. Since I have an incomplete manual, this may be for Apple Paddles or something else. Any info on this? As always, any information is greatly appreciated. Rich Rich Cini Collector of Classic Computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulator Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 26 21:45:12 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <1759.516T2250T13706271optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 26, 2001 10:50:45 PM Message-ID: <200104270245.TAA14684@shell1.aracnet.com> > >get it to prepare it for powering off so that I don't have to do a > >manual fsck that prompts me for a lot of repetetive questions. > > NetBSD and OpenBSD boxes seem to boot fine, albeit slowly. Of course they boot slowly, they've got to repair all the damage you did. Sheesh! > So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that > won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive lights > aren't on. Kindly never apply for a job where I'm working. Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 26 22:20:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'm curious... Has anyone here purchased something from EBay that >they wouldn't have found unless the advertisement showed up here? I haunt eBay, and still am amazed at the items I REALLY wanted and just missed. Only the special, one of a kind type things I think belong on this list though, normal one shows up each month things I have less concern about, especially since so many people snipe so that nobody has a clue to final bids until the end. Used to drive me nuts with people posting, this or that with the bid only, 50 cents, what idiots. From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Thu Apr 26 22:36:02 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Rapport PCjr expansion chassis References: <200104262056.PAA11531@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3AE8E922.DC804169@bresnanlink.net> The PCjr in question with the expanded memory is only counting up to 128 when it POSTs, so I am pretty sure that the expanded memory isn't getting any power at all. If the memory would appear during the POST, my life would be wonderful. My other extended PCjrs POST past 128KB. So are there any Rapport Drive II owners out there that want to tell me what the external power supply looks like? Does it output the same as the PCjr power brick, or is it a different beast? The Rapport looks like a pretty neat device. The standard PCjr diskette controller can only support one drive. They use the standard controller, but they "borrow" some of the lines on the floppy cable and run it through some additional logic to add two drive support. It also looks like it has a parallel port and a clock/calendar on it. It's also got a switch labelled "PC/PCjr" - it either disables all of the addon crap, or it adds a feature that I'm unaware of. Any guesses? Mike From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 26 22:49:43 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422214017.02b49d50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AE8EC57.BDFF64A@internet1.net> Chuck, Did you get my address? I sent a private email, but haven't heard from you? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > Yup, send me your snail mail address. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Apr 26 23:04:26 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive In-Reply-To: <3AE8EC57.BDFF64A@internet1.net> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422214017.02b49d50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010426210339.02bc1a30@208.226.86.10> Yup, we had a 28% layoff on monday and I've been a bit busy cleaning up the mess. I packed up some cover plates and the BA23 cover into a box and it will go out in the morning's mail. Enjoy, --Chuck At 11:49 PM 4/26/01 -0400, you wrote: >Chuck, > >Did you get my address? I sent a private email, but haven't heard from >you? > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > >Chuck McManis wrote: > > > Yup, send me your snail mail address. From rdd at smart.net Thu Apr 26 23:30:09 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104270216.TAA13577@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Define older hardware. On my Sparc 10 and 20 I run Solaris 2.6 as it's the > last version to support some of the hardware I use. Though I've been Ah, you're using newer hardware. ;-) I was referring to a Sun 4/110 running Solaris 2.4... as well as a 3/60 that was running SunOS 4.1.1. Both my SparcServer 1000 and my Ultra are running Solaris 8. Now, I'm not in the habit of just switching off machines; I prefer to shut them down properly whenever possible. However, if the machines go down due to a power failure, etc... or just a test to see how they react to being switched off before I begin to load software and data onto them and use them for anything. The ones running Solaris 8 are much more likely to necessitate a manual fsck than my other machines for some reason; not sure why. Any ideas? > threatening to move the Sparc 20 to Solaris 8 when I upgrade its harddrives. Out of curiosity, what hard drives are you using that Solaris 8 doesn't support? Will it support most older 5-1/4" SCSI hard drives and SMD drives, or the Emulex SCSI <-> ESDI apater? > I'll put it another way, if you have the chance to shut a UNIX box down > properly and don't, you're a fool. Especially if the system is like my one I agree, which is why I make every attempt to do so. Not only do I not want to risk losing data from a crash, but I also don't want to waste my time having to to a restore that should never have been necessitated in the first place. > Linux box and has a lot of disk space hanging off of it (about 70GB), as > that's some serious fsck time! Personally if a system has an option to shut > it down gracefully, that's what I do, no matter the OS. It's bad enough to have to wait for a check through 768MB of RAM, without having to endure a manual fsck through quite a few gigabytes of disk space. Wow, you must really trust Linux! Your experiences with it are probably different than mine, but I don't have enough faith in it, based upon prior experiences with RedHat Linux. Based upon those experiences, RedHat Linux appeared to have a less stable filesystem than FreeBSD, and was more prone to need lots of help with a manual fsck when power was lost, or when the machine crashed while running, which wasn't uncommon---particularly if Netscape was being used on it. What flavor of Linux are you using? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 27 00:25:30 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <3AE902CA.14382253@greenbelt.com> "Claude.W" wrote: > Well, my two cents... > > I think advertising items on ebay or any other auction site is kinda really > not in it's place here. > Why? Spamming NGs seems more reprehensible. I'm talking vintage computer items. If someone lists crap, then blast them. If it's the real deal, then let it pass. Any guarantee? No! But this is a free net. I'd rather blast someone for what they posted rather than prevent them to post in the first place. Uninteresting posted items will be naturally trimmed this way. This is savvy group that wouldn't tolerate crap. I'd love to see the day that someone gets blasted for posting crap, to only then see it go for 4 times the orginally expected price. And I hope that YOU are the first to post that sort of item! > > Ebay or any other auction site does not "equate" (can I say that?...I am > french) with the "true-spirit" of collecting classic computers IMO...It has > Bull! Value always equates to money. That doesn't mean the spirit of collecting need always cashed in. But if it were it be valauble, then if it were to cashed in, it should and would demonstrate the actual value. I'm a lefty that believes in the capitalistic principles. Free market is like gravity. To actaully demonstrate weight (value) there must be the ability of free fall. Do you honestly think people will "donate" computer equipment in a fair, equitable manner worthy of true collectors, historians and preservationists? That is a perfect world. That is not this world. I strive for your ideal, but realize what a market is. I do not succumb to it, rather I embrace it! The sale of one great gem opens the door for the purchase of another; as I do not have the means to own it all. I transfer wealth in a manner of parley. Why shouldn't I? > not helped a lot the collecting hobby IMO and has driven the price of a lot > of stuff to ridiculous levels...like .com stocks...that I owned a few > of...and that are worth a lot less now...but thats another story... > You risked. Hopefully you are young. Do not hate capitalism because you invested badly once. You must stay the course for the long term. The main reason is that in the long term capitalism is the best system. > > I always taught classiccmp was for "true" collectors...not resellers...now > whats a "true" collector is different for everyone, but think of why you do > this for a minute and how much classic computers you have sold compared to > how many you have traded, given away, restored or "played with" recently and > you can figure out why you do this... > I love seeing the right system go to the right owner. I will not deny a wealthy person their right. You seem to want to do so. They may lack the savvy of an owner that would better handle a key item, true. But that sort of incident does not discredit forsale-to-the-highest-bidder outright. All sellers have the right of discretion to whom they sell to. The highest bidder need not be the bottom line to the seller. EBay maybe, but their are other ways to sell. And they too should be welcome on this board, IMO. Free to good home... (works well, just check out the home) > > >From what I understand, the stuff offered here should be giveaways or > trades....stuff I have done in the past and stuff that should be happenning > more here...unless most of the people here are in this to make money? > Free stuff and trades are fine. I do both. But I also want to be able to sell. Why is that taboo? > > As for stuff being RARE on ebay, almost everything is RARE on ebay from the > point of view of the seller from what I can see... > > I don't know how this sounds but : When I am at the point of going through > all the hassles of packing and shipping and ebaying to make $5-$10, Ill > question myself about my financial situation and ebaying will not be my > first taught for changing that...but thats just me... > There are times I don't make squat on EBay. I get satisfaction and usually a positive feedback because I got something for someone that wanted what I had more than me! No other reason! I don't make a killing or anything close to a living off of Ebay. I like having someone get what I have at a price we are both happy with. What can be wrong about that!? All classic computer items are unique or at least very limited edition. I would agree that not a single repost of the same item should be allowed on the board. Classic computer equipment does not lend itself to be spammed. Each sale is a one time arrangement. A PDP-11 memory board should allowed to be mentioned here as I can't imagine an endless supply of the exists. In summary, the spirit of classic computer collection should continue to have a donation and trading aspect, but on the same token, trading equipment for money is not taboo and should be tolerated on this board. At least the freedom to do so should be. Let the board decide what is valid and what is not. Eric Eric > > Claude > Canuk Computer Collector > http://computer_collector.tripod.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Ford > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: Amiga items on eBay > > > > John Foust wrote: > > > > > >Pardon the auction announcement... > > > > > > > > > > > >I did this and got blasted for it. I don't think FA (for auction) posts > > >are that bad, escpecially on classic cmp > > >for classic cmp related material. > > >But what I am asking is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail > > >list. Anyone like to clarify? > > > > > >Eric > > > > Rules, we have no rules, only complaints. ;) > > > > People on this list do what they want, those that don't like it complain, > > but we have no police, and I don't think anybody has ever been booted off. > > > > That said, if you want to offer something to the list, offer it to the > list. > > > > Trying to get a few more bidders on your ebay auction is typically seen as > > merchantile, not friendly, activity. > > > > Regardless of the above I say if its stuff people on the list will want, > > post it, but be a man about the criticism, because YES you are doing it > for > > the money, not the pure pursuit of junk collecting. > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 01:44:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: References: <200104270216.TAA13577@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >> Define older hardware. On my Sparc 10 and 20 I run Solaris 2.6 as it's the >> last version to support some of the hardware I use. Though I've been > >Ah, you're using newer hardware. ;-) I was referring to a Sun 4/110 >running Solaris 2.4... as well as a 3/60 that was running SunOS 4.1.1. What can I say, the oldest Sun hardware I've been able to get my hands on is a Sparc 2. Though in all honestly I'm not really interested in running UNIX on anything older, except getting it running on one of my PDP-11's (though that's a very low priority). >Both my SparcServer 1000 and my Ultra are running Solaris 8. Now, I'm Make me sick, what kind of Ultra? I've really been wanting one, but haven't found one with the right bang for the buck. Though I could almost justify the new Sunblade 100! >and use them for anything. The ones running Solaris 8 are much more >likely to necessitate a manual fsck than my other machines for some >reason; not sure why. Any ideas? I'm afriad not, I've only used Solaris 7 on a x86 box, and haven't tried Solaris 8 at all. Even at work we're still running Solaris 2.6. >> threatening to move the Sparc 20 to Solaris 8 when I upgrade its >>>>harddrives. > >Out of curiosity, what hard drives are you using that Solaris 8 >doesn't support? Will it support most older 5-1/4" SCSI hard drives >and SMD drives, or the Emulex SCSI <-> ESDI apater? Actually you misunderstood me there (and I wasn't clear enough). It's not the drives, it's the S-Bus boards. I've got Sun 100Mbit and PTI 430 SCSI cards that aren't supported beyond Solaris 2.6. However, the only board in the Sparc 20 that isn't is the PTI 430, and I recently got a couple Sun SCSI boards I can replace it with. So when I pull out the 2 2GB 7200 Drives with 2 9GB 7200 drives I'll see how it runs with Solaris 8. >> Linux box and has a lot of disk space hanging off of it (about 70GB), as >> that's some serious fsck time! Personally if a system has an option to shut >> it down gracefully, that's what I do, no matter the OS. > >It's bad enough to have to wait for a check through 768MB of RAM, >without having to endure a manual fsck through quite a few gigabytes >of disk space. Try anywhere from 400GB - 1.2TB of diskspace after a power outage, and that's per server! >Wow, you must really trust Linux! Your experiences with it are >probably different than mine, but I don't have enough faith in it, Well, I've been running it since January '92, however, I don't really trust it for more than a Workstation. >based upon prior experiences with RedHat Linux. Based upon those >experiences, RedHat Linux appeared to have a less stable filesystem >than FreeBSD, and was more prone to need lots of help with a manual >fsck when power was lost, or when the machine crashed while running, >which wasn't uncommon---particularly if Netscape was being used on it. >What flavor of Linux are you using? I ran Red Hat for a few years, but switched to Mandrake a few months ago. I've never had real problems with the filesystem stability, however, that might also have something to do with the way that I use it. I rarely keep my Linux boxes up for more than a few days at a time, normally no more than a few hours in fact. Though my current Linux workstation at home has the disturbing habit of crashing after being up for 2-3 days. Hmmm, actually come to think of it, I've got a Linux Workstation at work now (finally had to give up the antique RS6000), and it's been up for nearly two months now. It's also running a modified RedHat 6.2 release. BTW, I've never had Netscrape cause a UNIX system to crash. Though it's caused my Mac to crash plenty of times. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 27 02:19:55 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: MicroVAX 3100 booting question..." (Apr 26, 22:50) References: <1759.516T2250T13706271optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10104270819.ZM29436@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 26, 22:50, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> I have no respect for a system which needs to be pampered before one > >> may hit the power switch, so nowadays, I just flick the switch when > >> I feel like it, be the system Windows, Mac or UNIX. Haven't had the > >> opportunity with VMS yet. =) I can do that with my SGIs running UNIX, because they have soft power that actually works. The OS intercepts the sinal from the switch and does a clean shutdown. (Unlike the Sun Ultras I've used, where the soft power so rarely works when we want it to, that we've often ended up yanking the power cord because nothing happens). > NetBSD and OpenBSD boxes seem to boot fine, albeit slowly. Because they have to check and sometimes fix the disk. If shut down clean, they don't have to do that. > So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that > won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive lights > aren't on. Having a proper file system won't prevent corruption at some level. What do you mean by "proper", anyway? Even a journaling file system like XFS can't preserve data that was being written when it was interrupted, and you WILL get some data corruption, even if it doesn't corrupt the structure of the disk (making a bad block). Just because some systems silently deal with most problems next time they start up doesn't mean you've not done some damage. One day it won't be repairable without intervention. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 03:06:27 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: DejaNews... Holy Cow!!! Message-ID: Wow, I just did a search at http://groups.google.com and they've now got all of the DejaNews archives back online! It was actually a problem, I was expecting to only pull up a couple hits, and I got a LOT! Just thought I'd share the good news! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tosteve at yahoo.com Fri Apr 27 03:33:50 2001 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Apple /// - Mac Port! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010427083350.62219.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Adrian, You have a very slim chance on the Apple III, numerous people have already asked for it. The Macintosh Portable is in very good condition, with just a few minor marks here and there, little if any yellowing as well. I am asking $50.00 for it, not including shipping. Sorry, It doesn't have a carrying case. Are you in the UK? Thanks! Steve. --- Adrian Graham wrote: > Hi Steve, > > How much would you be after for the Apple ///? I > understand shipping might > be expensive :) And the Mac portable for that > matter..... > > > Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:55:03 -0700 (PDT) > > From: steve > > Subject: Computers for swap or sell > > > > Hi, > > > > I have some extra systems, see if there's anything > > that you like! > > > > 1.Apple IIc with monitor (small green screen) > > 2.Apple IIc Plus > > 3.Apple III with Monitor III > > > > 4.Macintosh Portable (model 5120) > > cheers > > adrian/witchy > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer > Museum > 0:OK, 0:1 > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 27 04:37:48 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Will LDOS run on other Z80 machines, and does OS-9 run on any other >systems? Back when I was deciding on my first computer (ok, well, my OS-9 was supported on a variety of hardware, i ncluding 6800 and 68000 series CPU's. 3-4 years ago there were even Set-Top boxes being prototyped that used OS-9 as the core OS. My SWTPc 6809 box came configured with support ROMs from Microware for OS-9. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From alex at linuxhacker.org Fri Apr 27 04:43:10 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Hmmm, actually come to think of it, I've got a Linux Workstation at work > now (finally had to give up the antique RS6000), and it's been up for > nearly two months now. It's also running a modified RedHat 6.2 release. The old Linuxhacker box was up for over 400 days running 2.2.10 or so before the hardware started to get flaky (and the only reason it rebooted before that was because of an extended power outage). I needed it to be rock solid reliable because it was located on the other side of the country to me. I had another machine here which ran 2.0.33 with never a glitch for over a year before I decided to retire it in favour of something faster. I personally don't recall ever experiencing any crashes with stable kernel releases that weren't later traced to bad hardware, (very occasionally) a buggy experimental driver for something, or (in the case of ARM Linux a couple of years ago) a bug in GCC generating bad code. The company I work for, an ISP, uses Linux for all it's servers and the only problems they've experienced were with a buggy multiport 10/100 ethernet card driver which occasionally locked the card (the machine was still usable but it needed to be rebooted to reset the card), and the (experimental) kernel NFS server locking up (it seems to work find in recent kernels though). Although I have often run development kernels on my workstation, and I have done kernel development myself which sometimes resulted in crashes, I've never seen it result in filesystem damage worse than a couple of files which were being written to at the time of the crash being left in /lost+found (only very rarely did it need a manual fsck at all in fact, especially if I ran a sync before inserting the potentially buggy kernel module that I was working on). -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Apr 27 05:14:36 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:44 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD3612AB@exch002.softwright.co.uk> >> does anyone have a spare 16MHz 68k CPU... > > Was the MC68000-12 rated to 16Mhz, or did people just run it that fast? I > remember it was an issue for people who tried to clock-double their A500s. how did you know? :-) I have an old A500 which it'd be nice to increase the speed of, add an IDE disk to it, increase the memory etc. It had been left outside and all the metal screening's gone pretty rusty, hence it makes a nice project machine! The information I've seen suggests that SGS-Thompson parts were 12MHz and Motorola-badged ones would run at 16 (even if they were badged as 12's). If I can find one of the chips I'll find out :-) > I've seen at least one Amiga peripheral that used a Motorola DMA chip (forget > if it was 2-channel or 4-channel). Microbotics SCSI? Software Results had > a WAN router box that was never released, that used a 68450 per serial card > for high-performance serial (vs the non-DMA 8-port low performance card). I > doubt if you got it from that - I have the boxes (and 8-layer boards!) up > in the attic. ISTR they used 600 RPM 3.5" drives, too. Nope, none of those. I had all of the boards from a phone exchange at one point (that was a *lot* of silicon) and pulled many Z80 + support chips off those, but don't remember there being any 68k-family stuff. Strange... cheers Jules From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Fri Apr 27 05:31:19 2001 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD3612AC@exch002.softwright.co.uk> >> also, does anyone know of anything that used 68450 chips? (they're 4-channel >> DMA controllers for the 68k apparently). I found a couple of these amongst >> the piles of junk I have and am curious as to where I might have got them - > > In a 64 pin DIL package or a 68 pin (?) PGA package? 64-pin DIL. > I've seen the former in sevaral machines, including the Torch XXX. The > latter was used in the PERQ3a. Although if you stripped either of those > machines for parts, I would feel justified in stripping _you_ for parts :-) hmm, strip away :-) It's possible... I never had a complete XXX system, but Torch used to be my local source of PC bits (around 1990 or so) and I knew the guys there via a friend of mine. I remember piles of XXX machines on the shelves gathering dust, not sure what happened to those (are Torch still around? Unlikely). Occasionally I used to get other odds and ends from there (I have a set of XXX floppies someplace) so may have had a dead XXX system board or something from them which I pulled the 68450's from. I used to work for a place up in Cambridge that was primarily a PC repair shop, but they used to sell anything computer-related so long as it was mainstream-ish (ie. lots of Amstrads etc. too). Occasionally we'd get oddities in, which is where a couple of my bigger systems have come from. The boss always wanted such machines stripped for useful parts (typically just memory and disks, workstation monitors if they were there) and then the rest was scrapped :-( Unfortunately he always wanted a ridiculous amount of money for any of these systems complete, otherwise I would have saved whatever I could (anything with SCSI disks seemed to automatically command a tenfold price increase!). I have a vague memory of at least one XXX system which passed through there, an IMP system, several big Apricot towers, and some Acorn Unix system of some sort. It's possible I scavenged the 68450's from the bin awaiting disposal, although I have no idea what I thought I was going to do with them :) I seem to remember a big white cabinet on wheels (3' high, 18" wide by maybe 4' deep) which we used to ride around the warehouse on :-) No idea what the innards of it were though! Oh, for some reason video memory was never saved - if we had a dead PC SVGA card it just got thrown out as-is. I had a nice little scam going pulling memory off these dead boards and selling it to people wanting to upgrade their PC video cards from 512KB to 1MB.... the video memory was usually intact even if the boards were toast. cheers Jules From kevan at heydon.org Fri Apr 27 07:29:23 2001 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD3612AC@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: Julian Richardson wrote: > It's possible... I never had a complete XXX system, but Torch used to be my > local source of PC bits (around 1990 or so) and I knew the guys there via a > friend of mine. I remember piles of XXX machines on the shelves gathering > dust, not sure what happened to those (are Torch still around? Unlikely). They went under some time ago. > Occasionally I used to get other odds and ends from there (I have a set of > XXX floppies someplace) so may have had a dead XXX system board or something > from them which I pulled the 68450's from. I have been lucky to make contact with a couple of ex-employees of Torch and have acquired quite a stash of stuff from them. This includes the cases and almost all of the bits for four TripleX's and a QuadX. A complete and working last time it was used Quad X. I also have a couple of boxes of spares, documentation and schematics. If anybody needs spare parts for their Torch then let me know because I may be able to help. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Apr 27 07:44:30 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Why to shutdown rather than powe r off computers In-Reply-To: <200104270245.TAA14684@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 26, 2001 07:45:12 pm" Message-ID: <200104271244.f3RCiWG15893@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> > > NetBSD and OpenBSD boxes seem to boot fine, albeit slowly. > > Of course they boot slowly, they've got to repair all the damage you did. > Sheesh! Some people don't understand any multitasking OS's. This will go on until he loses major data or trashes some disk structure. Even AIX's jfs will lose eventually in this situation. Sometimes (machine lock up ) you HAVE to do this. Otherwise it's a big nono. > > > So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that > > won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive lights > > aren't on. > > Kindly never apply for a job where I'm working. > > Zane Yup... What he said. Or at least don't expect me to recommend you. bill (Who's currently looking for Unix and NT Network Admin staff in Monmouth County, New Jersey -- mail to pechter@ureach.com) -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d? s+:+ a+ C+++ UB++++ P+ L+ E--- W++ N++ o K++ w--- O++ M+ V++ PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5 X R- tv++ b+ DI++ D- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -- "Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie" - Dennis Miller || bpechter@shell.monmouth.com From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Apr 27 07:53:53 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879876@MAIL10> Jim: I looked at home, and I don;t have any of Ahl's books. I do have a version of StarTrek that was for TinyBasic, which I could use. I was interested in the version that came with the 16k Apple ][ because it seemed to make use of some of the graphics capabilities. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland [mailto:jim@calico.litterbox.com] Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:05 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Listing for AppleII StarTrek I have it in David Aho's book "More Basic Computer Games". I had a scanned image of each page of the listing on my web page for quite a while, but I removed it. If nobody else gets back to you let me know and I'll dig up the images or scan 'em again. > > Hello, all: > > Does anyone have the listing for or a disk image of the 16k StarTrek > for the Apple II? > > Rich > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Apr 27 08:35:22 2001 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: TrackStar E usage - Update Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879877@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm muddling through this a bit. I found an old CGA monitor up in the attic that I attached to the TrackStar. I'm able to boot the TS into Integer Basic successfully. I still don't know if the composite output works since I think that there is a problem with the Apple Composite monitor I have (it displays only a yellow background). I think that the updated FAQ mentions that it's a video level problem. Using the TS utilities, I was able to create a DOS3.3 disk image in the TrackStar format. the TS will not "boot" that image, nor will it boot the image included with the drivers. I still can't get it to boot. I just checked the Apple2 FAQ and the TrackStar page was updated about 1 month ago. It mentions that some TS disk images are available from the GSWorldview archive, a link which doesn't work. Does anyone have a link to the working archive? As a result of this experimentation, I think that I'm going to do a TrackStar Web page this weekend. Rich From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Apr 27 08:51:05 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010427135105.68088.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > As someone on this list reminded me years ago: there's really no such > thing as a null-modem cable, but there is such a thing as a cable with > pins 2 and 3 crossed, etc. :-) Would a cable with active electronics in the middle that provided clocking for synchronous devices count as a "null modem"? Technically speaking, I guess you could call it an integrated modem eliminator, but for a while Software Results sold this device with two 40-pin ribbon cables, that could be used to connect a pair of DPV-11s or two COMBOARDs or anything that used one of DEC's pinouts for a sync serial connection. It had some line buffers and a COM 8116(?) baud rate generator chip. One of these days, I want to make a board with this same chip for my PDP-8/L and PDP-8/i to clock the serial connection at something other than 110 bps (I was thinking of 150 in/9600 out and run it with a VT52 or VT220 since they both support split baud rates and have 20mA inputs). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 27 09:09:28 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 27, 01 01:11:08 am Message-ID: <200104271409.KAA20216@wordstock.com> > > [RS232 - Commodore Serial cables] > > > There is no such thing as a simple cable to interconnect the two. > > > > > > > For many years I used a standard null modem cable to connect my PC's > > with my A1000 to transfer software between them, can't get much simpler > > than that. > > I don't dispute that you can interconnect a Commodore RS232 port (as > found on the Amigas, and the P500) with a PC serial RS232 port using a > null modem cable. In fact I'd be very suprised if this was not the case. > > The original suggestion, though was that there was a cable to link > Commodore serial peripherals (as used with the C64, C128, Vic20, etc) to > an RS232 port. Since these interfaces are very different, in voltage > levels, in the bit-level protocol, and in the higher level protocol, I > think it's impossble to use a simple cable to link such devices to a > generic RS232 port. > For serial interfaces check out: http://www.cmdweb.com/cbm And check out the "Turbo232 High-Speed Modem Interface". With a SuperCPU you can go to 115200 bps. also available: http://come.to/ide64 This is an IDE interface for the C-64, which has a dual port RS-232 interface. They are also working on a MP3 Player for IDE64!! Cheers, Bryan From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Apr 27 07:50:11 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010427085011.00d767e0@obregon.multi.net.co> At 05:47 PM 4/26/01 -0600, you wrote: >So, I vote for no EBay advertisements. Especially the one line >http://www.ebay.com/... kind with no supporting text. Many of >us don't read email with a HTTP degraded browser. > >Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? I personally don't object to such ads and actually find them useful. Of course, I prefer succint ads with no html. As for the "dreaded line" above, well, you can always set up a filter based on it, right? Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From jss at ou.edu Fri Apr 27 09:22:13 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: <3AE85257.D36A7CD6@greenbelt.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <3AE85257.D36A7CD6@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <988381333.3ae980955f962@email.ou.edu> Quoting Eric Chomko : > I don't think FA (for auction) posts are that bad, escpecially on > classic cmp for classic cmp related material. But what I am asking > is the offical rule-of-thumb on this for this mail list. I'll put in my vote for "Please post your auctions". #rant And really, if everyone participates in endless threads about cats or how much Microsoft sucks but news of classic computers available is considered impolite, then I must call into question the usefulness of this list. Does the CMP stand for Cats, Microsoft, and Porn? #endrant -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Apr 27 09:23:21 2001 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You know, as I thought about it just switching off the power on the newer unix boxes probably IS less destructive since the power button on newer units is not actually tied directly in to the power supply. I am thinking of newer RS6k's and HP9000 machines I have seen where the power switch merely makes init do a powerfail shutdown (which is more graceful than yanking the power cord or hitting the power on machine where the button is actually connected to the PS) We had our computer room UPS blow a capacitor and a non-electrician facility person responding to the fire alarm cut the power to the room (rather than let the make before break switch merely cutoff power to the UPS) and our 400 user RS6k with an ISAM database needed two days of database rebuilding before it was functional. The modern JFS filesystems came back nice and quick but that did not stop the user data from being corrupted. Its replacement we are gradually cutting over to which uses a modern transaction log based database was back up when the power was restored. Likewise, on VMS without RMS journaling package installed you are likely to get RMS-?-BUG, RMS-?-IRC, etc errors on machines with busy indexed files switched off without a graceful shutdown. On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Thu, 26 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > Define older hardware. On my Sparc 10 and 20 I run Solaris 2.6 as it's the > > last version to support some of the hardware I use. Though I've been > > Ah, you're using newer hardware. ;-) I was referring to a Sun 4/110 > running Solaris 2.4... as well as a 3/60 that was running SunOS 4.1.1. > Both my SparcServer 1000 and my Ultra are running Solaris 8. Now, I'm > not in the habit of just switching off machines; I prefer to shut them > down properly whenever possible. However, if the machines go down due > to a power failure, etc... or just a test to see how they react to > being switched off before I begin to load software and data onto them > and use them for anything. The ones running Solaris 8 are much more > likely to necessitate a manual fsck than my other machines for some > reason; not sure why. Any ideas? > > > threatening to move the Sparc 20 to Solaris 8 when I upgrade its harddrives. > > Out of curiosity, what hard drives are you using that Solaris 8 > doesn't support? Will it support most older 5-1/4" SCSI hard drives > and SMD drives, or the Emulex SCSI <-> ESDI apater? > > > I'll put it another way, if you have the chance to shut a UNIX box down > > properly and don't, you're a fool. Especially if the system is like my one > > I agree, which is why I make every attempt to do so. Not only do I > not want to risk losing data from a crash, but I also don't want to > waste my time having to to a restore that should never have been > necessitated in the first place. > > > Linux box and has a lot of disk space hanging off of it (about 70GB), as > > that's some serious fsck time! Personally if a system has an option to shut > > it down gracefully, that's what I do, no matter the OS. > > It's bad enough to have to wait for a check through 768MB of RAM, > without having to endure a manual fsck through quite a few gigabytes > of disk space. > > Wow, you must really trust Linux! Your experiences with it are > probably different than mine, but I don't have enough faith in it, > based upon prior experiences with RedHat Linux. Based upon those > experiences, RedHat Linux appeared to have a less stable filesystem > than FreeBSD, and was more prone to need lots of help with a manual > fsck when power was lost, or when the machine crashed while running, > which wasn't uncommon---particularly if Netscape was being used on it. > What flavor of Linux are you using? > -- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Apr 27 09:27:13 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879876@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Apr 27, 2001 08:53:53 AM Message-ID: <200104271427.IAA27935@calico.litterbox.com> Okay. Let me know if you want the Ahl version, and I'll put it back on my web site. > > Jim: > > I looked at home, and I don;t have any of Ahl's books. I do have a > version of StarTrek that was for TinyBasic, which I could use. I was > interested in the version that came with the 16k Apple ][ because it seemed > to make use of some of the graphics capabilities. > > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Strickland [mailto:jim@calico.litterbox.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:05 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Listing for AppleII StarTrek > > > I have it in David Aho's book "More Basic Computer Games". > I had a scanned image of each page of the listing on my web page for quite > a while, but I removed it. If nobody else gets back to you let me know and > I'll > dig up the images or scan 'em again. > > > > > Hello, all: > > > > Does anyone have the listing for or a disk image of the 16k StarTrek > > for the Apple II? > > > > Rich > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jss at ou.edu Fri Apr 27 09:36:05 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <988382165.3ae983d563b49@email.ou.edu> Quoting Mike Ford : > Trying to get a few more bidders on your ebay auction is typically > seen as merchantile, not friendly, activity. ... YES you are doing > it for the money, not the pure pursuit of junk collecting. There's nothing wrong, when selling something, with wanting to be paid what it is worth. Since the 'worth' of something can be effectively defined as 'how much people would pay for it', eBay makes an excellent tool. Sure there are some items that get bid up to what we think are horrid prices, but remember, those items are actually worth that much to the high bidders, or the high bids would not have been placed. When posting news of auctions to this list, I argue that most people would do it not to get a few more bidders, but to inform those who don't *live* on eBay about items they might be extremely interested in. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Fri Apr 27 09:45:52 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> Quoting "Claude.W" : > Ebay or any other auction site does not "equate" ... with the > "true-spirit" of collecting classic computers IMO... It has not > helped a lot the collecting hobby IMO and has driven the price of a > lot of stuff to ridiculous levels Prices get hight because *people* are willing to pay that much. It's not eBay's fault, it's the people's fault. And if people will pay that much (especially if it happens regularly), then that's what the item is *worth*. There is nothing wrong with wanting what the item is worth. Personally, I would offer any classiccmp item to the list before putting it on eBay, but I am not offended by those who go straight to auctioning. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 27 10:20:34 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: A few PDP11 questions and FREE Cipher tape drive References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010422214017.02b49d50@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010426210339.02bc1a30@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3AE98E42.8B689EAC@internet1.net> 28% Wow, thats a lot. Who do you work for? How much do I owe you for shipping? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Chuck McManis wrote: > > Yup, we had a 28% layoff on monday and I've been a bit busy cleaning up the > mess. I packed up some cover plates and the BA23 cover into a box and it > will go out in the morning's mail. > > Enjoy, > --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 27 10:20:38 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> References: <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010427101519.01cb0ee0@pc> At 09:45 AM 4/27/01 -0500, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: >Personally, I would offer any classiccmp item to the list before >putting it on eBay, but I am not offended by those who go straight to >auctioning. I'd argue that putting it on eBay and telling this list isn't quite as good as offering it to the list. The alternative is what? That I conduct an auction in private e-mail with a bunch of fellow chiselers who all have their own notion of a proper price? An eBay auction gives me rules, structure, anonymity for bidders, and a wider base of bidders. If I had an item that I knew was perfectly suited to a particular person's collection, I'd deal with them directly. And besides, did I mention that my Amiga items now on eBay are truly RARE? - John From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Fri Apr 27 10:23:10 2001 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu>; from jss@ou.edu on Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:45:52AM -0500 References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:45:52AM -0500, Jeffrey S. Sharp (jss@ou.edu) wrote: > Quoting "Claude.W" : > > Ebay or any other auction site does not "equate" ... with the > > "true-spirit" of collecting classic computers IMO... It has not > > helped a lot the collecting hobby IMO and has driven the price of a > > lot of stuff to ridiculous levels > > Prices get hight because *people* are willing to pay that much. It's > not eBay's fault, it's the people's fault. And if people will pay > that much (especially if it happens regularly), then that's what the > item is *worth*. There is nothing wrong with wanting what the item > is worth. Well, no -- the value (market price) of an item isn't what *one person* will pay, it's what *people* will pay ("what the market will bear"). EBay has a handful of features which almost certainly are designed to inflate prices through psychological factors, thus prices on eBay are *not* market prices. I agree that it's not eBay's fault and that it's the fault of at least two bidders in a particular auction, but what the item sells for on eBay and what the item is worth are two different things (and one is not necessarily higher than the other). -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Apr 27 11:01:32 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Apr 26, 2001 08:21:07 pm" Message-ID: <200104271601.JAA22270@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> >I believe that if people are going to buy something from EBay, they >already have searches set up or email announcements, and don't need >to see the announcement here. The people that HATE EBay don't want >to see the announcement because it only pisses them off. > >So, I vote for no EBay advertisements. Especially the one line >http://www.ebay.com/... kind with no supporting text. Many of >us don't read email with a HTTP degraded browser. I don't have so any problem with someone posting a mention of something rare that they came across while browsing Ebay. I have bid on some items mentioned here, but I can't recall if I've ever been the high bidder on such an item. I also don't have a problem with people mentioning their own auction if they have an unusual or unique item (for example, a working IBM PGA adaptor and monitor.) Of course, I'd rather they just entertained offers from readers of the list... What I would have a problem with is people advertising their auction of common items like "R4R3 IBM Serial/Parallel Combo Card!!!!" I'd rather that people use good judgement about what auction postings are appropriate that have an unenforcable rule that forbids all such postings. For some of us it would be pretty much impossible to search Ebay for every item we might be interested in. Eric From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Apr 27 11:09:06 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104270245.TAA14684@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 26, 2001 07:45:12 pm" Message-ID: <200104271609.JAA22379@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that > > won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive lights > > aren't on. > > Kindly never apply for a job where I'm working. Yep, some of us even worry that the battery backup for the write-back cache in our RAID setup is only 47 hours, even if we can't concieve of something that would interrupt the UPS before the systems had time to shut down. Unfortunately, living here we can concieve of an event that would interrupt power suddenly, destroy the UPS, and keep us in the dark for 48 hours or more. Of course, at that point I doubt I'll be worrying too much about the state of disks. Eric From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Apr 27 11:04:38 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: calling Shawn Rutledge Message-ID: <20010427110438.Y291@mrbill.net> Shawn - please contact me off-list and send your postal address. Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From ewy at southwind.net Fri Apr 27 11:23:04 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... References: Message-ID: <3AE99CE8.9E88322D@southwind.net> Tony Duell wrote: >...I am sure there was a PGA version.... > > I don't suppose anyone has the pinout of the 2-channel (68440 IIRC) DMA > chip, do they (as a plain text file). I'll need it sometime in the > distant future for repairing a little HP 68K computer I have here... > > Thanks in Advance for any help. > > -tony I have the pinout here in my M68000 Family Reference Manual. I could find some way to replicate it in ASCII sometime between now and "the distant future". :) I have a Hitachi 68450-10 and a Motorola 68451-10 -- both PGA -- that I dug out of a bin of chips at the local computer bastardization and surplus hell-hole. Someday they'll go into my fabled homebrew Linux/68K machine. Heh. Right. Does anybody happen to know what the 68451 actually is? I've been assuming it is some slight variation on the 68450, but I don't have any documentation that actually says so outright. -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@_spamaway_southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 27 07:48:14 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: WTB: '040 Powerbook In-Reply-To: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD3612AC@exch002.softwright.co.uk> Message-ID: <01Apr27.122642edt.119041@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Does anyone have an older '040 based Powerbook, such as a 540C or 190CS, that they'd be willing to sell? Since my main machine is a Mac, I'd like to move my portable work to a capable Powerbook, vice the 486DX4/100 I have now. Thanks Jeff From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Apr 27 11:46:35 2001 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek In-Reply-To: <200104271427.IAA27935@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Apr 27, 2001 08:27:13 am" Message-ID: <200104271646.JAA23209@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> I recall there being multiple Star Trek games for the Apple II. In fact the first reasonably large program I wrote was a Star Trek game. I had played the a version at a store and developed a similar game (based upon Wrath of Kahn) as a project for a high school programming class. Being the only geek in my High School, I got to sit at a computer and hack for the whole semester, while the rest of the student attempted to learn Basic. I didn't have the source for the game I had played, and, of course, my technique at that point was terrible, but the game is OK. Kahn usually gets the first shot and usually takes out the engine room, so winning can be a bit tough. My version also has some graphics for weapon fire. It takes more than 16K though. I also wrote a federation vs klingon fleet battle program where you had to program the action of your ships. It favored the klingons too much, and usually the only way to win was to get your ships close enough to the klingons and take them out with a self destruct. I had always planned to make it a more even matchup but never got around to it. I still have source and disk images somewhere. I may have to play with them again at some point. Eric > Okay. Let me know if you want the Ahl version, and I'll put it back on > my web site. > > > > > Jim: > > > > I looked at home, and I don;t have any of Ahl's books. I do have a > > version of StarTrek that was for TinyBasic, which I could use. I was > > interested in the version that came with the 16k Apple ][ because it seemed > > to make use of some of the graphics capabilities. > > > > Rich > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jim Strickland [mailto:jim@calico.litterbox.com] > > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 3:05 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: Listing for AppleII StarTrek > > > > > > I have it in David Aho's book "More Basic Computer Games". > > I had a scanned image of each page of the listing on my web page for quite > > a while, but I removed it. If nobody else gets back to you let me know and > > I'll > > dig up the images or scan 'em again. > > > > > > > > Hello, all: > > > > > > Does anyone have the listing for or a disk image of the 16k StarTrek > > > for the Apple II? > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jim Strickland > > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > BeOS Powered! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewy at southwind.net Fri Apr 27 11:56:51 2001 From: ewy at southwind.net (Joel Ewy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question References: Message-ID: <3AE9A4D3.718014E7@southwind.net> Another interesting place to find OS-9 was Philips' CD-i. Supposedly there is a way to get an OS-9 shell by hooking up a terminal to the controller ports. The CD-i players used Philips/Signetics 68070, which was just a 16 Mhz 68000 with a couple DMA channels, a UART, and maybe some timers integrated into the chip. That and the video chip for the CD-i player went into the MM/1 computer, which was designed around 1990, if I remember right. It was targeted at Tandy's Color Computer orphans. It wasn't CoCo compatible, but it ran OS-9 and had a window system and graphics libraries that were source compatible with the stuff Tandy included with OS-9/Level II for the CoCo 3, the idea being that it would be quick and easy to port CoCo OS-9 software -- some of which had already been ported from "RS-DOS"/MS-BASIC. OS-9 was also available for the Atari ST, and there was a version of it that ran as a user application on a Mac. You could also at one time get a 68000 board that plugged into an IBM compatible (don't remember if it was an 8-bit or a 16-bit board) that could run OS-9 and leeched off the PC hardware, but it had a bunch of serial ports built in for terminals, as it was intended to be used as a multi-user system. It would also run on machines like the PT-68K, and its descendants, which was featured in a series of articles in Radio-Electronics magazine in the late '80s. This was an interesting computer that I always wanted to build, but didn't have the money at the time. It was a 68000 motherboard with an XT bus. The cool thing about OS-9 is that, even though it isn't a truly open system, in the sense of all the source code being available, it was written with the intention that it should be expandable by the user base. It's entirely modular, and the module interface is well documented. Device drivers and file managers are not compiled into the same piece of object code as the rest of the kernel. For that reason, they could be replaced, or added to, by user-designed modules without needing to recompile the kernel. This made it much more hardware neutral and therefore much more adaptable than most of the other microcomputer operating systems that were around at the time. Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Will LDOS run on other Z80 machines, and does OS-9 run on any other > >systems? Back when I was deciding on my first computer (ok, well, my > > OS-9 was supported on a variety of hardware, i ncluding 6800 > and 68000 series CPU's. The only 6800 series CPU it would run on was the 6809, of course. That's where the name comes from. I think the story was that Motorola contracted with Microware to write a structured BASIC to show off the advanced features of the 6809. Microware came up with BASIC-09, and then wrote a multitasking kernel to go along with it. > 3-4 years ago there were even Set-Top boxes > being prototyped that used OS-9 as the core OS. My SWTPc 6809 box > came configured with support ROMs from Microware for OS-9. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 JCE -- Joel Ewy mailto:ewy@southwind.net http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy From vance at ikickass.org Fri Apr 27 12:00:35 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You'd better not write the lyrics on a PC. It would crash and lose your data Peace... Sridhar On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Thompson wrote: > > This reminds me of Homer Simpson using his handgun to turn off the TV. > > That reminds me, I'd like to hear a parody of the song "Bubba Shot the > Jukebox" called it "Bubba Shot his PeeCee"... > > [...] > Bubba shot the Jukebox last night, > Said it played a sad song and made him cry. > [...] > > becomes... > > [...] > Bubba shot his PeeCee last night, > Said Windoze crashed real bad and lost his files. > [...] > > RDD > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 27 12:22:41 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <200104271409.KAA20216@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Apr 27, 1 10:09:28 am" Message-ID: <200104271722.KAA12234@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The original suggestion, though was that there was a cable to link > > Commodore serial peripherals (as used with the C64, C128, Vic20, etc) to > > an RS232 port. Since these interfaces are very different, in voltage > > levels, in the bit-level protocol, and in the higher level protocol, I > > think it's impossble to use a simple cable to link such devices to a > > generic RS232 port. > > > For serial interfaces check out: > > http://www.cmdweb.com/cbm > > And check out the "Turbo232 High-Speed Modem Interface". With a SuperCPU you > can go to 115200 bps. But, but BUT! that's a cartridge and doesn't do anything with the serial IEC interface. However, it is an excellent device. Even a plain-jane C64 can manage a 56k modem at full speed with one. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. -- Isaac Asimov ---------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 27 12:24:16 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek In-Reply-To: <200104271427.IAA27935@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Apr 27, 1 08:27:13 am" Message-ID: <200104271724.KAA09180@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Okay. Let me know if you want the Ahl version, and I'll put it back on > my web site. I'd be interested. I assume you'd post it as a type-in listing? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Work harder! Millions on welfare depend on you! ---------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 27 12:26:33 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Why to shutdown rather than powe r off computers In-Reply-To: <200104271244.f3RCiWG15893@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Apr 27, 1 08:44:30 am" Message-ID: <200104271726.KAA10476@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Some people don't understand any multitasking OS's. > This will go on until he loses major data or trashes some disk structure. > Even AIX's jfs will lose eventually in this situation. But you do have to work at it. stockholm, this machine, is AIX 4.1.x and it's tough to kill its disk. I've never had an error out of it, even with the world's most pathological hard crashes, inexplicable UPS failures and stupid people unplugging the wrong thing in the server room. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, take a pawn. -- Mission: Impossible ("Crack-Up") ------------ From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 27 12:59:18 2001 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <200104271722.KAA12234@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Apr 27, 01 10:22:41 am Message-ID: <200104271759.NAA30481@wordstock.com> > > For serial interfaces check out: > > > > http://www.cmdweb.com/cbm > > > > And check out the "Turbo232 High-Speed Modem Interface". With a SuperCPU you > > can go to 115200 bps. > > But, but BUT! that's a cartridge and doesn't do anything with the serial IEC > interface. However, it is an excellent device. Even a plain-jane C64 can > manage a 56k modem at full speed with one. > Really!?! I was always told (or read) that a 64 needed a SuperCPU to get over 38400 bps. Bryan From chomko at greenbelt.com Fri Apr 27 13:00:48 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <3AE9B3D0.BF491616@greenbelt.com> Rich Lafferty wrote: > On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:45:52AM -0500, Jeffrey S. Sharp (jss@ou.edu) wrote: > > Quoting "Claude.W" : > > > Ebay or any other auction site does not "equate" ... with the > > > "true-spirit" of collecting classic computers IMO... It has not > > > helped a lot the collecting hobby IMO and has driven the price of a > > > lot of stuff to ridiculous levels > > > > Prices get hight because *people* are willing to pay that much. It's > > not eBay's fault, it's the people's fault. And if people will pay > > that much (especially if it happens regularly), then that's what the > > item is *worth*. There is nothing wrong with wanting what the item > > is worth. > > Well, no -- the value (market price) of an item isn't what *one > person* will pay, it's what *people* will pay ("what the market will > bear"). EBay has a handful of features which almost certainly are > designed to inflate prices through psychological factors, thus prices > on eBay are *not* market prices. I agree that it's not eBay's fault > and that it's the fault of at least two bidders in a particular > auction, but what the item sells for on eBay and what the item is > worth are two different things (and one is not necessarily higher than > the other). On the same token great bargains can be had due to pure luck, the seller listing an item that he or she really doesn't understand or a seller listing an item in the wrong catergory. It works both ways. Eric > > > -Rich > > -- > ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 > ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 27 13:11:57 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: >Well, no -- the value (market price) of an item isn't what *one >person* will pay, it's what *people* will pay ("what the market will >bear"). EBay has a handful of features which almost certainly are >designed to inflate prices through psychological factors, thus prices >on eBay are *not* market prices. I agree that it's not eBay's fault >and that it's the fault of at least two bidders in a particular >auction, but what the item sells for on eBay and what the item is >worth are two different things (and one is not necessarily higher than >the other). The people who constantly sell on eBay, especially as part of their main income, wouldn't like the idea, but I think one idea would be to leave the listing system now in place intact but to have all of the actual bid amounts hidden until the end of the auction. That way everyone bids either what the maximum amount is they feel the item is worth or what they are absolutely willing to pay for it. Once t he auction ends, then the bids become viewable. The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 27 12:55:21 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: <988382165.3ae983d563b49@email.ou.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: >There's nothing wrong, when selling something, with wanting to be paid >what it is worth. Since the 'worth' of something can be effectively I find it distastefull to sell in this fashion to your friends, and that is how I see the people on this list. From ss at allegro.com Fri Apr 27 13:26:24 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010427101519.01cb0ee0@pc> References: <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AE95760.12164.3E354C9@localhost> Re: > The alternative is what? That I conduct an auction in > private e-mail with a bunch of fellow chiselers who all > have their own notion of a proper price? An eBay auction > gives me rules, structure, anonymity for bidders, and a > wider base of bidders. ... Good point. I have no problems with people putting things on eBay *or* offering them to the list *or* offering them to me directly :) One thing I've seen work on another list is if people voluntarily put a prefix on their subject line, like: ebay: victor 9000 Hmmm...sounds good, think I'll try it :) That allows people to filter out ebay postings if they don't want to see them. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From emu at ecubics.com Fri Apr 27 13:36:33 2001 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question References: <3AE9A4D3.718014E7@southwind.net> Message-ID: <3AE9BC31.4D6982EC@ecubics.com> Joel Ewy wrote: > > The cool thing about OS-9 is that, even though it isn't a truly open > system, in the sense of all the source code being available, it was > written with the intention that it should be expandable by the user > base. It's entirely modular, and the module interface is well > documented. Device drivers and file managers are not compiled into the > same piece of object code as the rest of the kernel. For that reason, > they could be replaced, or added to, by user-designed modules without > needing to recompile the kernel. This made it much more hardware neutral > and therefore much more adaptable than most of the other microcomputer > operating systems that were around at the time. Another interesting thing was/is, that it was pretty small, and allowed to set up nice multi user systems. We had one OS-9 system running around 16 terminals on a mc68020. cheers From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 27 13:35:57 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <200104271759.NAA30481@wordstock.com> from Bryan Pope at "Apr 27, 1 01:59:18 pm" Message-ID: <200104271835.LAA10430@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > But, but BUT! that's a cartridge and doesn't do anything with the serial IEC > > interface. However, it is an excellent device. Even a plain-jane C64 can > > manage a 56k modem at full speed with one. > > > Really!?! I was always told (or read) that a 64 needed a SuperCPU to get > over 38400 bps. I think you're thinking of the old SwiftLink, which is limited to 38.4kbps (but that's not the C64's fault). Now, to drive at the full 115.2kbps that the T232 is capable of *does* require a SCPU, definitely. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not enough to be Hungarian. You must have talent too. -- Alex Korda --- From ss at allegro.com Fri Apr 27 13:35:55 2001 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: ebay: Victor 9000 PC [ad] Message-ID: <3AE9599B.13199.3EC0A80@localhost> Hi, I'm trying two things: - mentioning that I've got a Victor 9000 PC up on eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232394633 - showing people that if we preface eBay announcements with "ebay:", the people who don't want to read such things can easily filter them out. I know that won't make everyone happy ... particularly people who feel that eBay is evil :) However, I tend to try local giveaways first. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 27 13:51:17 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:45 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <3AE9BFA5.6E6D50AB@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > >There's nothing wrong, when selling something, with wanting to be paid > >what it is worth. Since the 'worth' of something can be effectively > > I find it distastefull to sell in this fashion to your friends, and that is > how I see the people on this list. I fully agree with you there Mike! I think a much better solution is to either give or trade rather than sell for actual cash (except perhaps out of pocket expenses) between list members. That way, we don't have to sweat the small details :). It is important to note here though that a number of us have been members and posted to this list long enough to build up some knowledge and confidence in each other; newer members don't have that advantage. Lurkers take note :)!!!!! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 27 12:56:28 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 26, 1 09:26:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4015 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/a05a920b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 27 13:40:59 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: <3AE99CE8.9E88322D@southwind.net> from "Joel Ewy" at Apr 27, 1 11:23:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1349 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/0997486b/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 27 04:53:14 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104270245.TAA14684@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <812.517T700T6534005optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> >get it to prepare it for powering off so that I don't have to do a >> >manual fsck that prompts me for a lot of repetetive questions. >> >> NetBSD and OpenBSD boxes seem to boot fine, albeit slowly. >Of course they boot slowly, they've got to repair all the damage you did. >Sheesh! I didn't do any damage, I just turned an infinitely stupid file system off. >> So what if they're writing to disk? If they have proper file systems that >> won't really matter. Mind you, at least I always check that the drive >> lights aren't on. > Kindly never apply for a job where I'm working. If they can't handle that, they don't belong in any even remotely critical applications. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a communist. From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 27 04:43:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <499.517T800T6434901optimus@canit.se> R. D. Davis skrev: >On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Tony Duell wrote: >> I liked LDOS (nicest of the Z80 OSes that I've used -- a lot better than >> CP/M for example), but I liked OS-9 (on the CoCo) even more. >Will LDOS run on other Z80 machines, and does OS-9 run on any other >systems? OS9 runs on the Dragon as well. In fact, it runs on just about every platform out there; 6800/6809, 68000, i386, PowerPC. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From allain at panix.com Fri Apr 27 14:23:25 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc><00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude><988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu><20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <001301c0cf4f$a5ccc3c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Here's my 0.02 Asking for technical advice from the list, getting it, and turning around and selling a fixed item, to... eBay, is Most Rude. Letting the people on the list save time on searches by making small inobtrusive FA announcements: Offers a slight benefit. Offering things to the list first, waiting for responses and then resorting to eBay is Most Generous. John A. looks like a balancing act. see: "Ethics" From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Apr 27 14:07:41 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: References: <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: >be to leave the listing system now in place intact but to have all of >the actual bid amounts hidden until the end of the auction. That way I now just use a sniping service which places my bid "reliably" 3 seconds prior to the auction closing. Works essentially the same as a sealed bid auction. From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Apr 27 14:28:33 2001 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2001 18:56:28 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200104271928.f3RJSYr59587@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Incidentally, does anyone know what's happened to Tim Mann's web pages? > They were an excellent source of TRS-80 software. They still are, but now you need to look for them at http://www.tim-mann.org/trs80.html . -Frank McConnell From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 27 15:38:22 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Why to shutdown rather than powe r off computers In-Reply-To: <200104271244.f3RCiWG15893@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <1192.517T1100T12984901optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> > NetBSD and OpenBSD boxes seem to boot fine, albeit slowly. >> >> Of course they boot slowly, they've got to repair all the damage you did. >> Sheesh! >Some people don't understand any multitasking OS's. I've been multitasking since day one, I just don't think that means I have to multitask on a DECwriter connected to a PDP, as the BSDs seem to think. >This will go on until he loses major data or trashes some disk structure. Possibly. Then it's probably bye bye BSD. >Even AIX's jfs will lose eventually in this situation. >Sometimes (machine lock up ) you HAVE to do this. Otherwise it's a big >nono. It doesn't matter, since it will happen sooner or later. Last year, when I returned from summer holidays, the power was gone. The NetBSD system spun up fine, while I never could make the Linux system go multiuser again. No wonder I don't run Linux on anything any more. >Yup... What he said. >Or at least don't expect me to recommend you. Something tells me I shouldn't put this on my resum?. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga! WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/ BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512 From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Apr 27 15:19:31 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <812.517T700T6534005optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 27, 2001 10:53:14 am" Message-ID: <200104272019.f3RKJVI16788@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> > healyzh skrev: > > Kindly never apply for a job where I'm working. > > If they can't handle that, they don't belong in any even remotely critical > applications. > Just because they're not blinking the disk lights enough for you to see (btw there ARE NO DISK LIGHTS on Suns, Vaxes and some other systems we're talking about) doesn't mean there are not half-writen files that will lose data in the queue to be written. Also, on some older systems there's the risk of Write Current being asserted during disk controller power down causing spiral write (write current and write gate asserted while disk seeks to track 0 on controller reset. You're being a bit clue< here. You can swap PC keyboards and mice hot until you happen to blow the 5 volt fuse... and then you learn YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO. Geez. If the critical application has a file open and it loses it when you pull the power in an unexpected manor you could lose data. No question. It's true. -Bill -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d? s+:+ a+ C+++ UB++++ P+ L+ E--- W++ N++ o K++ w--- O++ M+ V++ PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5 X R- tv++ b+ DI++ D- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -- "Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie" - Dennis Miller || bpechter@shell.monmouth.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Apr 27 15:37:47 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Why to shutdown rather than powe r off computers In-Reply-To: <200104271726.KAA10476@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Apr 27, 2001 10:26:33 am" Message-ID: <200104272037.f3RKblB16836@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> > > Some people don't understand any multitasking OS's. > > This will go on until he loses major data or trashes some disk structure. > > Even AIX's jfs will lose eventually in this situation. > > But you do have to work at it. stockholm, this machine, is AIX 4.1.x and it's > tough to kill its disk. I've never had an error out of it, even with the > world's most pathological hard crashes, inexplicable UPS failures and stupid > people unplugging the wrong thing in the server room. My AIX 3.2.5 boxes at the last job lost their rootvg or at least the boot area once and since they were decommissioned and non-y2k compliant I never did fix them. -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d? s+:+ a+ C+++ UB++++ P+ L+ E--- W++ N++ o K++ w--- O++ M+ V++ PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5 X R- tv++ b+ DI++ D- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -- "Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie" - Dennis Miller || bpechter@shell.monmouth.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 27 16:05:08 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: <499.517T800T6434901optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Apr 27, 1 10:43:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 940 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/0ae4f96e/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 27 16:22:57 2001 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Listing for AppleII StarTrek In-Reply-To: "Cini, Richard" "RE: Listing for AppleII StarTrek" (Apr 27, 8:53) References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E5879876@MAIL10> Message-ID: <10104272222.ZM29971@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 27, 8:53, Cini, Richard wrote: > I looked at home, and I don;t have any of Ahl's books. I do have a > version of StarTrek that was for TinyBasic, which I could use. I was > interested in the version that came with the 16k Apple ][ because it seemed > to make use of some of the graphics capabilities. The version is David Ahl's book isn't Apple-oriented, though it must be close to the Apple version (which, if I recall correctly, was in Integer BASIC). I do have a copy of that somewhere. However, at the moment my machines are strewn (I think that's about the most descriptive word I could use!) all over the house and workshop as I'm in the final stages of "sorting out the junk". I doubt if the Disk ]['s are even in the same room as the Apple ][ or //e, and i'm sure the floppies aren't. Nevertheless, if you care to remind me in a week or two's time, I should be able to dig it out and kermit a copy across to something net-enabled for you. [5 mins later] Aha, I've found the disks. What you're looking for is called "APPLE-TREK", and it's 53 blocks of INTEGER BASIC. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 27 16:19:48 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104272019.f3RKJVI16788@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Apr 27, 1 04:19:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2636 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/81741ce8/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 27 17:27:46 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104272019.f3RKJVI16788@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <1422.517T2300T14075997optimus@canit.se> Bill Pechter skrev: >> healyzh skrev: >> > Kindly never apply for a job where I'm working. >> >> If they can't handle that, they don't belong in any even remotely critical >> applications. >Just because they're not blinking the disk lights enough >for you to see (btw there ARE NO DISK LIGHTS on Suns, Vaxes >and some other systems we're talking about) doesn't mean there are not >half-writen files that will lose data in the queue to be written. But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! >Also, on some older systems there's the risk of Write Current being >asserted during disk controller power down causing spiral write (write >current and write gate asserted while disk seeks to track 0 on >controller reset. ??? >You're being a bit clue< here. =? >You can swap PC keyboards and mice hot until you happen >to blow the 5 volt fuse... and then you learn YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO. Most PCs which I've had the !pleasure to work with haven't taken lightly to anything but having a keyboard plugged in before being turned on, then never removed. >Geez. >If the critical application has a file open and it loses it when you >pull the power in an unexpected manor you could lose data. While I don't agree with the programmer, I take care to turn off actual programs. That should however be enough IMNSHO. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 27 17:17:11 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: TRS-80 question In-Reply-To: <3AE9A4D3.718014E7@southwind.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Joel Ewy wrote: > Another interesting place to find OS-9 was Philips' CD-i. Supposedly > there is a way to get an OS-9 shell by hooking up a terminal to the > controller ports. The CD-i players used Philips/Signetics 68070, which > was just a 16 Mhz 68000 with a couple DMA channels, a UART, and maybe > some timers integrated into the chip. That and the video chip for the > CD-i player went into the MM/1 computer, which was designed around 1990, > if I remember right. It was targeted at Tandy's Color Computer orphans. > It wasn't CoCo compatible, but it ran OS-9 and had a window system and > graphics libraries that were source compatible with the stuff Tandy > included with OS-9/Level II for the CoCo 3, the idea being that it would > be quick and easy to port CoCo OS-9 software -- some of which had already > been ported from "RS-DOS"/MS-BASIC. > OS-9 was also available for the Atari ST, and there was a version of > it that ran as a user application on a Mac. You could also at one time > get a 68000 board that plugged into an IBM compatible (don't remember if > it was an 8-bit or a 16-bit board) that could run OS-9 and leeched off > the PC hardware, but it had a bunch of serial ports built in for > terminals, as it was intended to be used as a multi-user system. Yes, I have one like that - XT class card - that comes up asking for an OS-9(68K) disk. Never was able to get the disk to really see what went on from there :-( - don > It would also run on machines like the PT-68K, and its descendants, > which was featured in a series of articles in Radio-Electronics magazine > in the late '80s. This was an interesting computer that I always wanted > to build, but didn't have the money at the time. It was a 68000 > motherboard with an XT bus. > The cool thing about OS-9 is that, even though it isn't a truly open > system, in the sense of all the source code being available, it was > written with the intention that it should be expandable by the user > base. It's entirely modular, and the module interface is well > documented. Device drivers and file managers are not compiled into the > same piece of object code as the rest of the kernel. For that reason, > they could be replaced, or added to, by user-designed modules without > needing to recompile the kernel. This made it much more hardware neutral > and therefore much more adaptable than most of the other microcomputer > operating systems that were around at the time. > > > Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > >Will LDOS run on other Z80 machines, and does OS-9 run on any other > > >systems? Back when I was deciding on my first computer (ok, well, my > > > > OS-9 was supported on a variety of hardware, i ncluding 6800 > > and 68000 series CPU's. > > The only 6800 series CPU it would run on was the 6809, of course. > That's where the name comes from. I think the story was that Motorola > contracted with Microware to write a structured BASIC to show off the > advanced features of the 6809. Microware came up with BASIC-09, and then > wrote a multitasking kernel to go along with it. > > > 3-4 years ago there were even Set-Top boxes > > being prototyped that used OS-9 as the core OS. My SWTPc 6809 box > > came configured with support ROMs from Microware for OS-9. > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > JCE > > -- > Joel Ewy > mailto:ewy@southwind.net > http://www2.southwind.net/~ewy > > > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Apr 27 17:23:35 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Why to shutdown rather than powe r off computers In-Reply-To: <200104272037.f3RKblB16836@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Apr 27, 1 04:37:47 pm" Message-ID: <200104272223.PAA11744@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > My AIX 3.2.5 boxes at the last job lost their rootvg or at least the > boot area once and since they were decommissioned and non-y2k compliant > I never did fix them. Weren't there some bugs or at least some inadequacies in 3.2.5's filesystem handling, though? 4.x is said to be much better (at least my experience has been good). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I cannot see without closing my eyes -- Sarah Masen, "75 Grains of Sand" --- From ndiablo at diablonet.net Fri Apr 27 12:45:32 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: WTB: '040 PowerBook Message-ID: <3AE9B03C.C4C98276@diablonet.net> > Does anyone have an older '040 based Powerbook, such as a 540C or > 190CS, that they'd be willing to sell? Since my main machine is a Mac, > I'd like to move my portable work to a capable Powerbook, vice the > 486DX4/100 I have now. > > Thanks > Jeff Just to let you know in case you don't have particularly good luck on the gray market, Sun Remarketing (http://www.sunrem.com) is selling refurbished PowerBook 5300 (grayscale!) 8/500 systems for $199.00. Yes, these machines do have a reputation for being a service nightmare, but assumedly since this is a refurb system it will have been checked out, and Sun would offer some warranty on it as well. It is a PowerPC based system, so you'd end up with even a little more power than the '040 machines that you were searching for. Not a bad price on a used PowerBook, especially when compared to other resellers like Shreve. Just thought you might like the pointer. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 17:30:56 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Apr 27, 2001 10:19:48 PM Message-ID: <200104272230.PAA27205@shell1.aracnet.com> > > for you to see (btw there ARE NO DISK LIGHTS on Suns, Vaxes > > I think that rather depends on the Sun or the VAX (and how much hardware > hacking has been done to it ;-)). However, whatever the disk lights are > doing, you still don't turn off the power without shutting the machine > down properly. Well, none of my Sun boxes have disk lights, but since I'm almost exclusevely using StorageWorks shelves for disks on my OpenVMS systems, including one of the two VAXen currently in use, they do a fair amount of flashing. They defininitly do a bunch after I type SHUTDOWN. I think my two boxes of RA72's and RA73's also have lights, but it's been months since the MicroVAX III has been up, and it's now buried in the back of one of my Storage Units. > > You're being a bit clue< here. > > Agreed.. This reminds me a bit of a thread we had a few years back about > static damage to chips and how some people don't bother to take > precautions and have never zapped a chip. Point is, the damage often > shows up months later. Agreed, also. As for the Anti-Static I often don't take as good of precautions on that as I should, however, I make sure to never touch any conductors on the board, and that I touch metal on the case first. Plus I always have a good supply of antistatic bags around and always keep the boards, chips, or memory sticks in one. I should always use a Anti-Static strap, and I sometimes will, but not always :^( Still at least I'm taking some precautions. > As it can be with filesystems. You may think there's no problem, and one > day you either find an important file has been corrupted months earlier and > you didn't know about it, or that the last time you turned the machine > off without syncing you did some damage (for all it was OK the 100 times > before that). Interesting point here. On a related note, if you use a Mac, it's in your best interest to have a 3rd party disk check program and to check and optimize your filesystems regularly. Trust me, I know that you're likely to regret it if you don't! As much as I like Mac's I've got to admit the Filesystem is to delicate. > > You can swap PC keyboards and mice hot until you happen > > to blow the 5 volt fuse... and then you learn YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO. > > I once pulled the Unibus memory card out of a running PDP11/45 -- with > the power on. I made a mistake. The system crashed of course (no memory....) > but no hardware damage was done. > > Yes, I was lucky. This does not mean I make a habit of hot-swapping > Unibus boards (or anything else for that matter). I prefer to do things > properly, since I'm the poor person who'll have to sort out the mess > anyway... OK, now you've got me curious, did you pull the wrong board, or forget the power was on? I've heard of people hot-swapping Unibus and Q-Bus boards, but there is no way I'm that gutsy! Shoot, pulling hotswapable drives makes me nervous! Zane From witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 27 17:31:04 2001 From: witchy at vorbis.demon.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: apple /// In-Reply-To: <200104272151.QAA31261@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:33:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: steve > Subject: Re: Apple /// - Mac Port! > > Hi Adrian, > > You have a very slim chance on the Apple III, numerous > people have already asked for it. No worries :) > I am asking $50.00 for it, not including shipping. > Sorry, It doesn't have a carrying case. Eep - too much considering I can get one for less than that over here. Never mind, it was worth asking! > Are you in the UK? Yup! And given my recent redundancy I'm liable to stay here for a while yet..... cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum 0:OK, 0:1 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 17:51:03 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: WTB: '040 PowerBook In-Reply-To: <3AE9B03C.C4C98276@diablonet.net> from "Netdiablo" at Apr 27, 2001 05:45:32 PM Message-ID: <200104272251.PAA28288@shell1.aracnet.com> > Just to let you know in case you don't have particularly good luck on > the > gray market, Sun Remarketing (http://www.sunrem.com) is selling > refurbished > PowerBook 5300 (grayscale!) 8/500 systems for $199.00. Someone else to check would be http://www.powerbookguy.com/ I've never had any dealings with him, but have kept an eye on the site. Definitly more expensive though. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 27 18:28:39 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104272230.PAA27205@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Apr 27, 1 03:30:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1171 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/34cc1ed8/attachment.ksh From foxnhare at jps.net Fri Apr 27 19:38:29 2001 From: foxnhare at jps.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay References: <200104272151.QAA31261@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3AEA10FF.32F2B4DE@jps.net> > Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:47:16 -0600 (MDT) > From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" > Subject: Re: Amiga items on eBay > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Mike Ford wrote: > > > > John Foust wrote: > > > > > >Pardon the auction announcement... > > I'm curious... Has anyone here purchased something from EBay that > they wouldn't have found unless the advertisement showed up here? > > I believe that if people are going to buy something from EBay, they > already have searches set up or email announcements, and don't need > to see the announcement here. The people that HATE EBay don't want > to see the announcement because it only pisses them off. IF it is something very uncommon then I would not mind at all to see a mention on it in the group, say a MTU sound card or software for the PET of instructions for installing an MTU video board for same, I don't mind seeing ebay posts as long as thier not common items (if you search e-bay and find two similar (or more) already on auction it probably is common), like 1541 disk drives or Amiga 500s... :/ I have been known to post a "heads-up" or two on e-bay auctions I stumble upon that I find uncommon. Just because I know others are looking for such items or I appreciate that it is available and want to make sure it goes to a deserving fellow computer fan. > So, I vote for no EBay advertisements. Especially the one line > http://www.ebay.com/... kind with no supporting text. Many of > us don't read email with a HTTP degraded browser. I vote to use common sense, don't piss us off with boring auctions and DO PLEASE at least write a decent description of what the item is - beyond the link to the auction. I.E. "Commodore 900 Computer" not "Rare Commodore Computer!" > Anyone else want to weigh in on this issue? > > Clint -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-14.4k bps Classic Commodore pages at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From bdc at world.std.com Fri Apr 27 19:40:38 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <1422.517T2300T14075997optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 27 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Bill Pechter skrev: > > If the critical application has a file open and it loses it when you > > pull the power in an unexpected manor you could lose data. > > While I don't agree with the programmer, I take care to turn off actual > programs. That should however be enough IMNSHO. Wow, so you'll go through all the bother of individual shutting down any servers on the system instead of just typing a `shutdown' command which would do that for you automatically using the init scripts? Ohhh-kaaay... That seems like an awful lot of work on your part, going out of your way to PUNISH THE STUPID FILESYSTEMS FOR NOT BEING SMARTER!!! I take it you've never worked in a critical production environment, have you? When your job is at stake (and therefore your financial well-being), you don't try to prove a point by not shutting down systems properly... Even when they are designed to handle such failures. Now when you're evaluating systems for purchase. Hell yeah. Beat them to death. -brian. From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Fri Apr 27 20:02:08 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; Message-ID: <3AEA1690.3217646A@bresnanlink.net> I remember hearing what is probably an urban legend about the proper way to shut down a Unix box. The console operator is supposed to enter the sync command three times by hand (and not on one command line like the subject shows it) to ensure that the disk writes got out. Now these were older boxes, and the drives may have been slow, but this surely had to be an exageration. The story has a great punchline though: sync; sync; sync three times if you want to stop me .... Mike From mbg at world.std.com Fri Apr 27 20:21:26 2001 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; Message-ID: <200104280121.VAA09168@world.std.com> In fact... I seem to remember that the Ultrix-11 installation manual specified this action during the installation process. No urban legend.. I remember doing it on a home -11... sync; sync; sync; halt Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Apr 27 20:33:36 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Needed: TRS-80 Model II Keyboard & Boot Disk Message-ID: Does anyone have a spare TRS-80 Model II keyboard, boot disk, or manuals? I got one of these wonderful systems today, along with the disk expansion cabinet, but no keyboard, disks, or manuals. It seems to work fine, but without a keyboard or software, I can't do much with it. Any help is greatly appreciated! From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 20:41:22 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; In-Reply-To: <200104280121.VAA09168@world.std.com> from "Megan" at Apr 27, 2001 09:21:26 PM Message-ID: <200104280141.SAA04104@shell1.aracnet.com> > In fact... I seem to remember that the Ultrix-11 installation > manual specified this action during the installation process. > > No urban legend.. I remember doing it on a home -11... > > sync; sync; sync; halt Years ago (so far back in another year it will be ontopic), this was the correct way to shutdown Linux as well. Zane From ken.keller at sk.sympatico.ca Fri Apr 27 22:00:51 2001 From: ken.keller at sk.sympatico.ca (Ken and Bernice Keller) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Apple //c compatible Message-ID: <003501c0cf8f$917041a0$0a45a58e@bernice> I recently got my hands on a Laser 128 Personal Computer, but no way of finding out if it works, as it's missing a power cable, or possibly an external power supply? It has DC 15V marked on the case over where the power cord is supposed to go, and 7 pins arranged in a circular pattern. I need to find either pinouts, an actual cord, or the external power supply for it. Anyone have an idea as to where I can find any of these? Thanks, Gen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/1a8885f3/attachment.html From guntis at cyberstate.infi.net Fri Apr 27 09:38:35 2001 From: guntis at cyberstate.infi.net (Guntis Sprenne) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; Message-ID: <001201c0cf27$c0946a00$2badf7a5@guntis> >> In fact... I seem to remember that the Ultrix-11 installation >> manual specified this action during the installation process. >> No urban legend.. I remember doing it on a home -11... >> sync; sync; sync; halt >Years ago (so far back in another year it will be ontopic), this was the >correct way to shutdown Linux as well. And years before that - SCO XENIX and then SYSTEM V Unix - we were told the same thing, though this way sync sync sync shutdown / halt (or whatever the command was) Delurking here for a bit. My sole collectibles are TI 990's and the TI PC (the first computer I owned). Most haven't been fired up in a while. Was once a field service tech for TI way back when. Still have a good bit of documentation and half-forgotten knowledge of those machines. I also know a much smaller bit about the TI Unix and LISP boxes. FWIW. Guntis. From univac2 at earthlink.net Fri Apr 27 21:27:19 2001 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Apple //c compatible In-Reply-To: <003501c0cf8f$917041a0$0a45a58e@bernice> Message-ID: I use an Apple IIc power supply with mine. They're not hard to find. on 4/27/01 10:00 PM, Ken and Bernice Keller at ken.keller@sk.sympatico.ca wrote: I recently got my hands on a Laser 128 Personal Computer, but no way of finding out if it works, as it's missing a power cable, or possibly an external power supply? It has DC 15V marked on the case over where the power cord is supposed to go, and 7 pins arranged in a circular pattern. I need to find either pinouts, an actual cord, or the external power supply for it. Anyone have an idea as to where I can find any of these? Thanks, Gen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010427/8a8febad/attachment.html From rdd at smart.net Fri Apr 27 22:02:40 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; In-Reply-To: <200104280141.SAA04104@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > No urban legend.. I remember doing it on a home -11... > > > > sync; sync; sync; halt > > Years ago (so far back in another year it will be ontopic), this was the > correct way to shutdown Linux as well. Doing that is the only thing that prevents my Sun Ultra running Solaris 8 from needing a manual fsck... I tend to issue three syncs on all of my systems just to be on the safe side (see, the magic number three is not superstition), and taught students in a UNIX class that they should do this. BTW, in case anyone's interested, I've still got a very limited number of spare copies of the textbook "A Quick and Simple Introduction to UNIX for MS-DOS Users" around here somewhere (no, I didn't mention syncing in the text), which was typeset on a classic PERQ T2 graphics workstation using the Mint document processing software. US$25 plus shipping (these were produced in small runs, and that's what it cost me per copy). I only began writing the book as I needed to write something in order to figure out how to use Mint. :-) It's my understanding that IDOCS Mint was ported to Sun workstations; is there anyone here who knows anything about this port? Somewhere in some old e-mail, I've got a letter from the person who wrote it, but he never got back to me with any more information. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at smart.net Fri Apr 27 22:12:36 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104272230.PAA27205@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Agreed, also. As for the Anti-Static I often don't take as good of This brings something to mind: I've received system purchased systems and boards on E-bay and from people on this list that came packaged in ways not protected at all from static, such as wrapped in plastic bags or plastic bubble-wrap inside a box filled with foam "peanuts" or else just packed loose in a box with foam "peanuts." Hopefully we can all learn to be a bit more careful and protect exposed connectors, circuit boards, etc. from static electricity during shipping. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From mbbrutman at chartermi.net Fri Apr 27 22:12:26 2001 From: mbbrutman at chartermi.net (Michael Brutman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Sears SR/2000 (Nakajima AR-30) information ? Message-ID: <3AEA351A.6C2D6F80@bresnanlink.net> My wife wants to sell this printer in a yard sale, but the collector in me is telling me to hide the printer in a safe place. Does anybody have an owners manual for this thing? I'd like to know what the 8 dip switches control. I'm willing to bet that they have the same functions as whatever printer Nakajima licensed the design from (Epson FX?) I know that it emulates an Epson of some sort, because I used it on a PCjr a long time ago. It has a Centronics parallel interface, and some sort of weirdo serial interface (Commodore?). According to Nakajima, it might work using Epson FX or IBM Proprinter III drivers. The printer is interesting to me because I've never seen another one, and Nakajimi is not a household name for printers here in the US. ;-) Thanks, Mike From rdd at smart.net Fri Apr 27 22:20:43 2001 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104272019.f3RKJVI16788@bg-tc-ppp732.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > Just because they're not blinking the disk lights enough > for you to see (btw there ARE NO DISK LIGHTS on Suns, Vaxes That depends on the model and what the disks reside in. Even when using Sun shoeboxes, with the drive mounted inside where one doesn't see it, one can see the light blinking through the holes in the case; of course, a 5-1/4" disk can also be mounted in a Sun shoebox so that the disk drive's front cover, and light, are clearly visible from the front of the shoebox. Then, there are the third-party shoeboxes where one can see one or more disk drive front covers and lights... :-) Of course, even though I can see some the disk drive lights, I still do proper shutdowns whenever possible. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 22:25:48 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 27, 2001 11:12:36 PM Message-ID: <200104280325.UAA07538@shell1.aracnet.com> > This brings something to mind: I've received system purchased systems > and boards on E-bay and from people on this list that came packaged in > ways not protected at all from static, such as wrapped in plastic bags > or plastic bubble-wrap inside a box filled with foam "peanuts" or else > just packed loose in a box with foam "peanuts." > > Hopefully we can all learn to be a bit more careful and protect exposed > connectors, circuit boards, etc. from static electricity during shipping. Got to agree there. When shipping boards, I first bag them in anti-static, and then wrap them in bubble-wrap. Then come the peanuts or more bubblewrap. One of the scarriest packages I've ever recieved was some PDP-11 Q-Bus boards a few years ago. They were wrapped in Tin Foil!!! I mentioned this on the list at the time, and IIRC, the consensous was this was safe. However, it's not something I'll ever do. Out of curiousity, how safe is dry newspaper? Zane From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Apr 27 21:42:13 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <812.517T700T6534005optimus@canit.se> References: <200104270245.TAA14684@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010427224213.00deea3c@obregon.multi.net.co> At 10:53 AM 4/27/01 +0100, Iggy wrote: >If they can't handle that, they don't belong in any even remotely critical >applications. You do realize, that at some very real timescale, shutting down a system is one of those problems where "real time" considerations crash head-on against the very nature of optimal scheduling in high-performance Unix systems, don't you? If you don't, I suggest you that get educated on what a hard drive does when it thinks that 12V is going down the drain. Regardless of which JFS it's got on it. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co Fri Apr 27 22:00:36 2001 From: cmurillo at emtelsa.multi.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104280325.UAA07538@shell1.aracnet.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010427230036.00df37b0@obregon.multi.net.co> At 08:25 PM 4/27/01 -0700, Zane wrote: >One of the scarriest packages I've ever recieved was some PDP-11 Q-Bus >boards a few years ago. They were wrapped in Tin Foil!!! I mentioned this >on the list at the time, and IIRC, the consensous was this was safe. >However, it's not something I'll ever do. Hmmm.... do you know what a "Faraday Cage" is? You can't go safer than that. Of course, it the PCB has some kind of NVRAM battery on it whose power lines happen to run on one of the surface planes.... >Out of curiousity, how safe is dry newspaper? Pretty bad. It is thin, a (relatively) good insulator depending on humidity and purity... which means that rubbing on the outside might be enough for triggering a small discharge inside that will blast that sub microns-wide oxydized silicon insulator at one of the gates of your precious chip... > Zane carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From donm at cts.com Fri Apr 27 23:09:54 2001 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104280325.UAA07538@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Apr 2001 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > This brings something to mind: I've received system purchased systems > > and boards on E-bay and from people on this list that came packaged in > > ways not protected at all from static, such as wrapped in plastic bags > > or plastic bubble-wrap inside a box filled with foam "peanuts" or else > > just packed loose in a box with foam "peanuts." > > > > Hopefully we can all learn to be a bit more careful and protect exposed > > connectors, circuit boards, etc. from static electricity during shipping. > > Got to agree there. When shipping boards, I first bag them in anti-static, > and then wrap them in bubble-wrap. Then come the peanuts or more > bubblewrap. > > One of the scarriest packages I've ever recieved was some PDP-11 Q-Bus > boards a few years ago. They were wrapped in Tin Foil!!! I mentioned this > on the list at the time, and IIRC, the consensous was this was safe. > However, it's not something I'll ever do. The only time that 'tinfoil' could be harmful would be if the board had an onboard battery. (Or, perhaps had some residual icing from the cake it previously covered!) - don > Out of curiousity, how safe is dry newspaper? > > Zane > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 27 23:45:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20010427230036.00df37b0@obregon.multi.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Apr 27, 2001 11:00:36 PM Message-ID: <200104280445.VAA09950@shell1.aracnet.com> > >boards a few years ago. They were wrapped in Tin Foil!!! I mentioned this > >on the list at the time, and IIRC, the consensous was this was safe. > >However, it's not something I'll ever do. > > Hmmm.... do you know what a "Faraday Cage" is? You can't go safer > than that. It was explained to me at the time, however, it just strikes me as inherently wrong! My mind my realize it's OK, but emotionally I don't. > >Out of curiousity, how safe is dry newspaper? > > Pretty bad. It is thin, a (relatively) good insulator > depending on humidity and purity... which means that rubbing > on the outside might be enough for triggering a small discharge inside > that will blast that sub microns-wide oxydized silicon insulator at > one of the gates of your precious chip... I kind of thought that might be the case. Though the only thing I think I have like that is a MicroVAX II Board set, and it's not single sheets, they're each dropped into the fold of a section of the paper. At the time I didn't have any bags, and they've sat in a box like that for several years untouched. They donated a BA123 chassis to my PDP-11/73. I'm assuming that the common practice we've all seen of just dumping the boards loose in a cardboard box is not a good idea. Zane From Mike_Mossaad at hotmail.com Fri Apr 27 23:58:16 2001 From: Mike_Mossaad at hotmail.com (Mike Mossaad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: I am interested at your offer of purchasing the Commodore 128D. Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/802e06b8/attachment.html From Mike_Mossaad at hotmail.com Sat Apr 28 00:06:41 2001 From: Mike_Mossaad at hotmail.com (Mike Mossaad) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: I am interested in purchasing the Commodore 128D, please respond. Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/0954890b/attachment.html From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Sat Apr 28 00:13:05 2001 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; In-Reply-To: <200104280121.VAA09168@world.std.com> from Megan at "Apr 27, 2001 09:21:26 pm" Message-ID: <20010428051316Z433893-14285+177@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > In fact... I seem to remember that the Ultrix-11 installation > manual specified this action during the installation process. > > No urban legend.. I remember doing it on a home -11... > > sync; sync; sync; halt > I'm not sure when the halt and shutdown programs first appeared. I do recall that at least on V6 (mid 1970s) that the sync sequence was required whenever the system was shutdown. If the halt program existed then it only changed run level or issued a processor halt instruction. On the 11/45 I recall using the front panel to halt the processor after the sync sequence. THe halt program may not have appeared (or be commonly used) until after front panel started to disappear. I do vaguelly recall some discussion of this when we moved V6 to the 11/03. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 28 01:36:02 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: References: <200104272230.PAA27205@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >This brings something to mind: I've received system purchased systems >and boards on E-bay and from people on this list that came packaged in >ways not protected at all from static, such as wrapped in plastic bags Tomorrow, Sat, is the hamfest at TRW and one way to alway spot me is that I carry a big bucket to haul away my loot. The bottom is filled with empty static bags, and sometimes I have to laugh a little at myself picking some board out of a heap and immediately putting it in a static bag. It may have spent the last few years in a plastic or cardboard box, but now that its mine, into a static bag. I am such a static bag fiend, I must have a box with close to 30 lbs of static bags stashed in it, plus that is just my "recovered" bags. I have hundreds of new ones that I have purchased. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 28 01:17:50 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Apple //c compatible In-Reply-To: <003501c0cf8f$917041a0$0a45a58e@bernice> Message-ID: > I recently got my hands on a Laser 128 Personal Computer, but no way >of finding out if it works, as it's missing a power cable, or possibly an >external power supply? > >It has DC 15V marked on the case over where the power cord is supposed to >go, and 7 pins arranged in a circular pattern. > >I need to find either pinouts, an actual cord, or the external power >supply for it. Anyone have an idea as to where I can find any of these? Doesn't the Laser128 use a power supply compatible with the Apple IIc power brick? (which I have plenty to sell) From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Apr 28 02:55:51 2001 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Super Star Trek Source Message-ID: <200104280755.BAA31314@calico.litterbox.com> Since it's come up, I've re-added the scans of the Super Star Trek sourcecode in Basic from David Ahl's "More BASIC Computer Games". There's no link from my home page, but the inside link will work. It is: http://www.litterbox.com/jim/trek/ Be advised the scans are quite large - 300dpi - to make OCR work better. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Fri Apr 27 20:11:12 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <375.518T600T1314205optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >Beleive it or not, I forgot the power was on. Or more exactly I forgot to >turn the power off. A friend of mine introduced a soldering iron into his Amiga 2000 when he suddenly noticed that it was still plugged in and running. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. --- Vittorio de Sica From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 28 06:19:15 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:46 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul Message-ID: <01042807294402.01063@fatty> I just got back from out of state with another DEC haul. I filled my Astro van to the roof with more docs software and misc before Mr. Landfill took them. Whew! 42 hours with no sleep. I'm getting too old for this. Anyway, I'm not even sure whats there yet but I did see a few versions of Ultrix and VMS on many different media. It looks like it is mostly VAX stuff and I will post it here when I have it inventoried. A few things I did see while loading... 64Mb for the VAX 8700(box was labled as such) Ultrix ver 1.0 on Magtape Many RX50's with Ultrix Lots of original sales flyers for Vax's Brand new spare boards for the 750 New replacement RK05 heads Lots of DECstations A nice unexpected bonus was finding a PDP8a in the pile and in it was a RL8 controller. to bed.... Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Sat Apr 28 07:56:20 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: VaXLab & VaxStation II Message-ID: <008301c0cfe2$a0034020$48d6f6d1@headleys> Hi all I ran across these two items yesterday and is thinking about purchasing them (one or the other, not both). I have zero knowledge of the DEC systems, but the Vaxlab, I never heard of before. Can someone give me a little info on these especially the Vaxlab. I would like to know what was it used for and give me a link with some info. Also what price should I pay for this, not knowing if it works or not. The place I am buying it from is known for unrealistic prices, so I did not bother to ask until I know if I need it. Headley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/a099236a/attachment.html From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 28 04:47:45 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1347.518T2250T6475647optimus@canit.se> Brian Chase skrev: >On 27 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Bill Pechter skrev: >> > If the critical application has a file open and it loses it when you >> > pull the power in an unexpected manor you could lose data. >> >> While I don't agree with the programmer, I take care to turn off actual >> programs. That should however be enough IMNSHO. >Wow, so you'll go through all the bother of individual shutting down any >servers on the system instead of just typing a `shutdown' command which >would do that for you automatically using the init scripts? Servers? Hell no, they're just serving things. >Ohhh-kaaay... That seems like an awful lot of work on your part, going out >of your way to PUNISH THE STUPID FILESYSTEMS FOR NOT BEING SMARTER!!! Not particularly. Most programs can be turned off in a standardised fashion. >I take it you've never worked in a critical production environment, have >you? When your job is at stake (and therefore your financial well-being), >you don't try to prove a point by not shutting down systems properly... >Even when they are designed to handle such failures. Of course I haven't. Computers are just toys to me. >Now when you're evaluating systems for purchase. Hell yeah. Beat them to >death. Nah, I wouldn't care about that either. After all, they're just toys. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. From hsappleton at sprintmail.com Sat Apr 28 08:30:09 2001 From: hsappleton at sprintmail.com (Compusync) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: VaxServer 3100 and VT340 terminal References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010322155422.02b7b500@208.226.86.10><5.0.0.25.2.20010323173955.02b3a780@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20010329210147.01e77030@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <009101c0cfe7$59a73820$48d6f6d1@headleys> Hi Chuck and all, Sorry for the belated reply. I got sidetracked with some other activity and just getting back to my VaxServer 3100. Thanks for the excellent help - The hardware works fine now and I was able to boot the system, by TYPING: BOOT (not sure where I got that from :-) ) and the machine responded with the following: "VAX/VMS Version V5.5.2" and went into a long series of startup procedures and finally ends with the following: "Message from user Queue_Manage on WMPF05 -Qman-1-Freedisk, Free up 264 blocks on disk _WMPF05$DKA300 % Qman-E-NODISKSPACE, Disk space not available for Que Manager to continue" bearing in mind that this has 3 hard drives and a "tape" drive (there is no tape in the drive). I also found that this has 8MB RAM. For the sake of fiddling around some more and learn a little bit, I would like to know what the above means and how to correct it. In the long run, I really want to run the freeware version of OpenVMS which comes on CD-ROM. Of course I would like to upgrade the hard drive, memory and add a CD-ROM. I am looking for pointers, suggestions and ideas on how to effect these upgrade. Any special kind of CD-ROM, or what type of memory and hard drive? I am very excited at this point, Never thought I would be actually using a VAX machine and interacting with it!! Headley From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 28 08:51:10 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >This brings something to mind: I've received system purchased systems >and boards on E-bay and from people on this list that came packaged in >ways not protected at all from static, such as wrapped in plastic bags >or plastic bubble-wrap inside a box filled with foam "peanuts" or else >just packed loose in a box with foam "peanuts." The bare circuit boards covered in peanuts are the ones that bother me most since the peanuts are such a good source of static. Each time I've ever received a board packed like that I've always politely informed the shipper of the problem and why they shouldn't do so. I also dislike it when a system unit is shipped uncovered in peanuts and they get wedged into the connecotrs, drives or actually inside the case. At the very least, anything I ship is well wrapped in bubblewrap prior to placing it in the box of peanuts. On the flip side is the one person that actually shipped some RAM in the IBM black hard plastic anti-static case for RAM. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 28 09:13:38 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Newly acquired Message-ID: <1064.518T1900T9135189optimus@canit.se> Finally the chip dropped! (Or whatever you say en anglais =) Or, IOW, my collection finally got somewhat interesting again. In the last weeks, I have found an ABC-800 (for free at the dump), yet to be tested since it needs to be supplied with power through the monitor. It seems as though it could be useful as a terminal, given its ROM and serial ports. Quite nice keyboard, too. Today, I was at the fleamarket and found a Japanese word processor with carrying case. It's a NEC Mini-5 thing. Could actually be useful, providing the LCD still works. Cost me 40 crowns. At an additional 40 SEK (a steal!), I found a boxed TI-99/4A. Came with documentation, PAL modulator, joysticks and "TI invaders". =) I really like the keyboard, but now I really need a male-male RF cable to plug it in. =/ I was also alotted an Apple portrait display. I really prefer my Sigma Pageviews though, they look much nicer. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. We have the most thorough test guy in the world... I showed him this program and he asked, 'but Rob, what if time runs backward?' From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Apr 28 08:55:54 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <01042807294402.01063@fatty> Message-ID: <20010428135554.18391.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Roth wrote: > I just got back from out of state with another DEC haul. Woof! > A few things I did see while loading... > Brand new spare boards for the 750 Do you have the 750 to go with it, or are you planning on moving these out? I have two 750s in good repair, but they are not fully decked out. > New replacement RK05 heads Are any of these RK05F heads? Are any heads available? I'm about to come into an RK8E after 15+ years of (slowly) looking, and I have one RK05F 16-sector pack that I've wondered what's on it since 1984. > A nice unexpected bonus was finding a PDP8a in the pile and in it was a RL8 > controller. Nice bonus. I got my first RL8A when I was in college. Paid real money for it because I could get an RL01 drive and RL8A for less than an RK8E and some 16-sector packs (I had the RK05 drive already, but RL01 packs were virtually free then). -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Apr 28 09:24:16 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010428142416.43233.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Not even close IIRC. The 68451 is an MMU. I've only seen it as the 64 pin > DIP version, again in the XXX (which has 3 64 pin chips on the CPU board > (aka 'Stickleback'!) -- the 68000, 68450 and 68451. Must have been some sort of Motorola reference design. The Software Results "Node Box" I mentioned has a DIP 68451, too. We never got the software that far advanced, so I have a DIP socket, wired to bypass the MMU. Just drop it in, and the system works without memory management. It is listed as obsolete by Motorola because it is _not_ compatible with the later, and more common, 68851 that was used with the 68020. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 28 09:30:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: C128 web server Message-ID: <200104281430.HAA12916@stockholm.ptloma.edu> This is not as big an achievement as it sounds since the machine in question has a SuperCPU accelerator in it, so it's not a *stock* system, but it's still quite impressive. It serves everything itself using a simple multithreaded webserver. http://c64.nvg.org/ (it's in Norway) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The best things in life are sold out. -------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Apr 28 09:40:17 2001 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Sears SR/2000 (Nakajima AR-30) information ? Message-ID: In a message dated 01-04-27 23:26:23 EDT, you write: << My wife wants to sell this printer in a yard sale, but the collector in me is telling me to hide the printer in a safe place. Does anybody have an owners manual for this thing? I'd like to know what the 8 dip switches control. I'm willing to bet that they have the same functions as whatever printer Nakajima licensed the design from (Epson FX?) I know that it emulates an Epson of some sort, because I used it on a PCjr a long time ago. It has a Centronics parallel interface, and some sort of weirdo serial interface (Commodore?). According to Nakajima, it might work using Epson FX or IBM Proprinter III drivers. The printer is interesting to me because I've never seen another one, and Nakajimi is not a household name for printers here in the US. ;-) >> I wouldnt call it collectible, really. I have the SR3000 and it's a epson fx80 compatibile i think. It is good if you have an apple // and run GEOS. There are no drivers for the SR3000 that I had but it did support the SR2000. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Apr 28 09:48:51 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: C128 web server In-Reply-To: <200104281430.HAA12916@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Apr 28, 1 07:30:51 am" Message-ID: <200104281448.HAA09198@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > This is not as big an achievement as it sounds since the machine in question > has a SuperCPU accelerator in it, so it's not a *stock* system, but it's still > quite impressive. It serves everything itself using a simple multithreaded > webserver. > > http://c64.nvg.org/ (it's in Norway) Oops -- my mistake. It's a C64c (but the modifications list is quite dazzling). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Happiness is having a scratch for every itch. -- Ogden Nash ---------------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Apr 28 10:13:27 2001 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: C128 web server In-Reply-To: <200104281430.HAA12916@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200104281430.HAA12916@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >This is not as big an achievement as it sounds since the machine in question >has a SuperCPU accelerator in it, so it's not a *stock* system, but it's still >quite impressive. It serves everything itself using a simple multithreaded >webserver. That's pretty impressive. Certainly not your stock C-128D! It reminded me of the Atari 800 web server that was online for a while. I always thought that was pretty impressive since it was a stock machine. For those that have never seen the page, it is at: http://kl.net/atari/ Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 28 09:05:45 2001 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. > > Truly one of a kind.... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 Ya know, I believe in free markets and all, but this is blatant shit. Please try to keep this type of advertisement off of CC. Thanks. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 28 11:58:08 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > >> Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in >>the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact >>replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they >>decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. >> >> Truly one of a kind.... >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 > >Ya know, I believe in free markets and all, but this is blatant shit. >Please try to keep this type of advertisement off of CC. Uh, Sellam, if you don't realize it, Brian wasn't posting one of his own auctions. Simply a humorous one. Chill out. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Apr 28 12:00:44 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: C128 web server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote: > It reminded me of the Atari 800 web server that was online for a How about this web server on a tiny 8 pin microcontroller: http://world.std.com/~fwhite/ace/ It doesn't "cheat" by only doing HTTP like the Atari either- it does SLIP and a subset of TCP, IP, ICMP, HTTP, and telnet (with an extremely simple shell interface for uploading files to the eeprom). If you ask nicely the author will send you the source code. -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From jss at ou.edu Sat Apr 28 12:28:16 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <988478896.3aeafdb0b22e6@email.ou.edu> Quoting Sellam Ismail : > > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. > > Ya know, I believe in free markets and all, but this is blatant > shit. Please try to keep this type of advertisement off of CC. Brian's post was a *joke* more than it was an ad. Calm down. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Sat Apr 28 12:59:54 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: New Acquisitions Message-ID: <988480794.3aeb051a2abd8@email.ou.edu> Well, all, I'm happy to report a few additions to my small collection. (1) DEC LA120 (DECwriter III). I bought this on eBay for a steal a few weeks back. It looks to be in decent condition. The shipper packed it very well, but neglected to wrap the LA120 in something before adding the paper-strip packing material. Thus, the thing is filled with paper strips, and I've still not taken the time to disassemble the LA120 to vaccuum/pick them all out. (2) DEC VT102. There was (and maybe still is) a lady selling what is probably a whole room of VT10xs on eBay, at the rate of one unit every week or so. I contacted her directly and asked if she had any units for which I could make a direct offer. She did, and I bought one. It was handled very poorly by UPS, as the top part of the case came off and now won't go completely back on and the case had several pieces chip off. It's not as pretty as it could be, but it *is* functional, so I'm satisfied with the purchase. In other news, I found some LA36 ribbons, LA120 ribbons, a box of teletype paper, 1981 PDP-11/04/24/34a/44/70 processor handbook, and a 1973 PDP-8/e/m/f small computer handbook, all for great prices on eBay. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Apr 28 13:36:29 2001 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync;y In-Reply-To: <200104280141.SAA04104@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Apr 27, 2001 06:41:22 pm" Message-ID: <200104281836.f3SIaUZ23070@bg-tc-ppp1252.monmouth.com> > > In fact... I seem to remember that the Ultrix-11 installation > > manual specified this action during the installation process. > > > > No urban legend.. I remember doing it on a home -11... > > > > sync; sync; sync; halt This could trash the disks on PDP11/45's and 11/70's with AT&T Unix. You see the trick with the three syncs was the time it took for the operator to type them in by hand -- each on it's own line nwith the carriage returns and fill characters for them to echo back. sync sync sync and push the halt switch down generated enough sync's and time delays for even the older Dec controllers to flush all the buffers and then halt. (and this was at LA36 DECwriter II's at 300 baud with LA120's sync;sync;sync; ad 1200 baud was probably more risky... ). It's said one person did sync;sync;sync and reach over quickly and halted the front panel switch -- only to find he trashed some of the file system on the next boot. of course this depended on system speed, memory buffers amount and size and the slowness of the disks and controllers involved. > Zane Bill -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d? s+:+ a+ C+++ UB++++ P+ L+ E--- W++ N++ o K++ w--- O++ M+ V++ PS+ PE Y+ PGP t 5 X R- tv++ b+ DI++ D- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ -- "Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in a James Bond movie" - Dennis Miller || bpechter@shell.monmouth.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 28 13:36:45 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <200104280325.UAA07538@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Apr 27, 1 08:25:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1998 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/495d4c4f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 28 13:45:19 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Motorola 68000-16 and 68450 chips... In-Reply-To: <20010428142416.43233.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 28, 1 07:24:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1647 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/be2ba6b2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 28 13:26:11 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: from "Brian Chase" at Apr 27, 1 07:40:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 996 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010428/65e8706a/attachment.ksh From dlw at trailingedge.com Sat Apr 28 14:35:13 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer Message-ID: <3AEAD521.23820.CA39AE@localhost> I picked up several systems from a fellow list member (thanks Kelly) and I'm looking for any links, info, etc. on them to help me get them all up and running again. I picked up 3 RCA Cosmac VIPs (to go with the one I already had, also from Kelly), 3 SWTPCs with different boards (I have to look through and find out what cards are there), a Netronics Explorer and on a sort of temporary permanent loan, a Super Pet. Oh, and a Sun IPC motherboard, at least we think that's what it was. Not sure which model. I'm working on cleaning them up, testing power and cataloguing them before beginning work on restoring the systems. Any info, help, links, whatever would be appreciated. More info to come soon for any who are interested. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From optimus at canit.se Sat Apr 28 15:21:16 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: C128 web server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <966.518T800T12814721optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >>This is not as big an achievement as it sounds since the machine in question >>has a SuperCPU accelerator in it, so it's not a *stock* system, but it's >>still quite impressive. It serves everything itself using a simple >>multithreaded webserver. > That's pretty impressive. Certainly not your stock C-128D! >It reminded me of the Atari 800 web server that was online for a >while. I always thought that was pretty impressive since it was a >stock machine. For those that have never seen the page, it is at: Not particularly impressive since it didn't run an IP stack or HTTP server. A monkey with a whistle could do that. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I can't understand ANY current MICROS~1 product names! Are they now created with a random word generator? What is the intent behind the name "Visual Studio" for their compiler suite? What is "Interdev"? Why is the Virus Transfer Protocol product named "Outlook"? Grumpy Ol' Fred From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 28 14:23:14 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Adaptec PDP-8e In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01042815271103.01063@fatty> Sellam, Take it easy. READ the post. Its a JOKE. Tongue in cheek, etc. I can't beleive how many people took this as a real ad. Its NOT my machine. I was just making light of the fact of the owners lack of knowledge on what he was selling, thats all.... Brian. On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, you wrote: > On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, brian roth wrote: > > > Get your bids in early on this one. Its a rare Adaptec PDP-8e. Back in the 60's DEC licensed their PDP8 architecture to Adaptec to make exact replica's of their now infamous design. Sales were sluggish so they decided to make SCSI interfaces instead. > > > > Truly one of a kind.... > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232453120 > > Ya know, I believe in free markets and all, but this is blatant shit. > Please try to keep this type of advertisement off of CC. > > Thanks. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From alex at linuxhacker.org Sat Apr 28 16:02:13 2001 From: alex at linuxhacker.org (Alex Holden) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync;y In-Reply-To: <200104281836.f3SIaUZ23070@bg-tc-ppp1252.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > sync > sync > sync > and push the halt switch down > generated enough sync's and time delays for even the older Dec > controllers to flush all the buffers and then halt. Why was it necessary to run sync three times in a row rather than just running it once and waiting for a few seconds? -- ------- Alex Holden ------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ http://www.robogeeks.org/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Apr 28 16:56:37 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Stellation Two Q-68 for Apple II In-Reply-To: <01042807294402.01063@fatty> Message-ID: I found a neat card for the Apple II I have been looking for, for a long time, a Stellation Two Q-68 with the 68008. Now the hunt for software.... From dlw at trailingedge.com Sat Apr 28 17:02:09 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Stellation Two Q-68 for Apple II In-Reply-To: References: <01042807294402.01063@fatty> Message-ID: <3AEAF791.27060.150C51A@localhost> Great find! I've been looking for their 6809 card for the Apple for years. Keep us posted on how it turns out as I'd like to hear if you get it running and all. Good luck with the software search. On 28 Apr 2001, at 14:56, Mike Ford wrote: > I found a neat card for the Apple II I have been looking for, for a > long time, a Stellation Two Q-68 with the 68008. Now the hunt for > software.... > > ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 28 17:15:49 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync;y References: Message-ID: <001301c0d030$c7f677c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> While the 1-missippi, 2-miss... 3... idea of the sync's sounds OK to me, I always thought it was due to the possibility of a 3-level cache and a 1 level sync, that is, that there could be multiple memory buffers in the kernal, O/S and (any) applications that would each make it "up" one level with each sync, So you had to do it that many times to get all the way out to the disk. Strictly a gut feel thing based on having to write my own (app level) memory managers a couple of times. John A. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sat Apr 28 20:56:49 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer References: <3AEAD521.23820.CA39AE@localhost> Message-ID: <3AEB74E1.EA0CCADA@greenbelt.com> David Williams wrote: > I picked up several systems from a fellow list member (thanks > Kelly) and I'm looking for any links, info, etc. on them to help me > get them all up and running again. I picked up 3 RCA Cosmac > VIPs (to go with the one I already had, also from Kelly), 3 SWTPCs Please elaborate on the SWTPC systems. Just curious. Eric > > with different boards (I have to look through and find out what cards > are there), a Netronics Explorer and on a sort of temporary > permanent loan, a Super Pet. Oh, and a Sun IPC motherboard, at > least we think that's what it was. Not sure which model. I'm > working on cleaning them up, testing power and cataloguing them > before beginning work on restoring the systems. Any info, help, > links, whatever would be appreciated. More info to come soon for > any who are interested. > > Thanks. > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com From chronic at nf.sympatico.ca Sat Apr 28 20:56:58 2001 From: chronic at nf.sympatico.ca (Lanny Cox) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Java Altair Emulator Message-ID: <001101c0d04f$c311eea0$88f8fea9@98box> Hi, This may be slightly OT, but it concerns a classic comp so i'll post it anyways. I was wondering if anyone here had seen the Java Altair 8800 emulator at http://members.aol.com/~altair88b. About a year ago, when I only had net access at school, i was searching for Altair stuff and came up with it. Although I could not try it due to lack of time, it seemed like a huge improvment over Claus Giloi's Altair emu, with a terminal emulator and paper tape support (i think). I tried to access it the other day, but the page has been removed. Does anyone out there know what i'm talking about?? If anyone has, did it work? I was very suspicious at the time due to a lack of contact address, plus it just seemed too good to be true. If anyone has tried it, did the thing work??? And whatever happened to it??? -Lanny From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sat Apr 28 21:09:46 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <20010428135554.18391.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20010428135554.18391.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01042822134101.00787@fatty> > Do you have the 750 to go with it, or are you planning on moving > these out? I have two 750s in good repair, but they are not > fully decked out. Yup! All operational too. > > > New replacement RK05 heads > > Are any of these RK05F heads? Are any heads available? I'm about > to come into an RK8E after 15+ years of (slowly) looking, and I > have one RK05F 16-sector pack that I've wondered what's on it since > 1984. Haven't checked them out yet. I saw three of them in a box. Remind me in a week or so. > > > A nice unexpected bonus was finding a PDP8a in the pile and in it was a RL8 > > controller. > > Nice bonus. I got my first RL8A when I was in college. Paid real money > for it because I could get an RL01 drive and RL8A for less than an RK8E > and some 16-sector packs (I had the RK05 drive already, but RL01 packs > were virtually free then). I still see them thrown in dumpsters ever now and then along with RL02 and RK05 packs. I save 'em when I see 'em. Brian. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Visit "The Seventh Continent" > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From dlw at trailingedge.com Sat Apr 28 22:28:14 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer In-Reply-To: <3AEB74E1.EA0CCADA@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3AEB43FE.29921.27B58F0@localhost> > Please elaborate on the SWTPC systems. Just curious. I should have pics up soon. So far I've been looking things over. As far as SWTPC stuff goes, I have three systems. Two are the SWTPC 6800 boxen with reset and power buttons on the front. The third is the same but the front panel doesn't have the same SWTPC 6800 logo on it. It's just blank. There are several boards, many I haven't IDed yet. So far I see 6800 CPU cards, some 8K memory boards, some I/O cards, what looks like it might be a prom burner, a disk controller (no drives though), a 16k memory board and some more I haven't figured out yet. He has a bunch of the manuals but has to locate them in his storage space first. I plan on scanning them when I get them. That's the extent of what I know so far about the SWTPC stuff. I'll post pics of the systems and boards on my site soon. Have to dig up my digital camera first. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Apr 29 00:32:22 2001 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: wanted: Old Storageworks drives in cannisters Message-ID: <20010429003222.V291@mrbill.net> I'm looking for 4-7 DEC Storageworks 2g or 4G drives in cannisters to put in an old BA350 (single ended fast scsi) shelf. Any suggestions? Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Apr 29 09:28:08 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Tektronix 575 Transistor Curve Tracer (Surrey, UK) (fwd) Message-ID: ATTENTION UK Classiccmpers: I found this lurking in a ham radio newsgroup. The last line of the message is what got my attention. Also, the 575 is a pretty nice piece of gear, especially if it can be rescued from being sent (working) to the landfill. Subject: (fwd) FS: Tektronix 575 Transistor Curve Tracer (Surrey, UK) -- forwarded message -- From: john@nospam.demon.co.uk (John Washington) Newsgroups: comp.os.cpm,sci.electronics.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc Subject: FS: Tektronix 575 Transistor Curve Tracer (Surrey, UK) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:02:53 +0100 (BST) Lines: 24 For sale: Tektronix 575 Transistor Curve Tracer. Wonderful machine, displays loads of curves for pretty much any transistor you care to test on it. Can even test two transistors at once, ideal for selecting matched pairs. Buyer collects or arranges shipping. Surrey, UK Email me at john at wash dot demon dot co dot uk. Would also be ideal as a boat anchor. Money? Yes, I'd like some, so get your accountant to figure out the new price (thousands), add inflation, and then take off a lot for depreciation, add even more for rare collectable status, and take off another few zillion 'cos I'm such a warm-hearted generous idiot. Or just make an offer. Any suggestions where else I might find a good home for this useful piece of gear? I'd be heart-broken to take it down the tip, but it occupies space I can ill afford. P.S. The spare CP/M computers are still available. -- John Washington -- -- end of forwarded message -- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Apr 29 11:06:07 2001 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: hey, did the list die???? Message-ID: <000d01c0d0c6$4e05f850$78799a8d@ajp166> I seemed to have been in the black hole of getting mail from the list for a few days. Allison From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 29 11:03:25 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <988560205.3aec3b4dbae32@email.ou.edu> Quoting Mike Ford : > I find it distastefull to sell in this fashion to your friends, > and that is how I see the people on this list. I don't know; that's a gray area. I have had a friend bid and win on an auction (not a classiccmp item), and he was completely satisfied. But then again that was only one guy, so not even I'm convinced. Like I have said before, I would offer something to the list before I would sell it on eBay. Not that I have much to offer, but you never know, I might just run across the motherlode someday. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 29 11:09:19 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> Quoting Jeff Hellige : > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 29 11:23:55 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <1422.517T2300T14075997optimus@canit.se> References: <1422.517T2300T14075997optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <988561435.3aec401b80e3f@email.ou.edu> Quoting Iggy Drougge : > But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! Well, you see, there is/are some program(s), called the "operating system", that you aren't turning off. You turn it off by running the shutdown procedure. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From marvin at rain.org Sun Apr 29 11:27:43 2001 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AEC40FF.2A0CE8D6@rain.org> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. As the saying goes, those of you who wait until the last minute to bid will always get beat out by those of us who wait until the last *second*. From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 29 11:48:31 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <1347.518T2250T6475647optimus@canit.se> References: <1347.518T2250T6475647optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <988562911.3aec45df396e2@email.ou.edu> Quoting Iggy Drougge : > > Wow, so you'll go through all the bother of individual shutting > > down any servers on the system instead of just typing a > > `shutdown' command which would do that for you automatically > > using the init scripts? > > Servers? Hell no, they're just serving things. ...and writing log files, or writing files that the client tells them to. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From markn at mr2.net Sun Apr 29 11:48:18 2001 From: markn at mr2.net (Mark Nias) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: RS/6000 Questions and items rescued from a skip Message-ID: <000201c0d0cc$3109b740$960a0a0a@marknpc> hi everyone, I've just subbed to this list to try and find out some information about a machine i've rescued from literally being thrown into a skip as scrap. The company i work for as just thrown out several UNIX machines.... of these i managed to rescue: Complete Silicon Graphics Indy system, with monitor and fully working SUN SPARCstation IPC, fully working IBM RS/6000 POWERstation 530, fully working (probably) There where other (older) machines that went, but unfortunately i wasn't able to save them. it's the IBM i'm trying to find information on, like identifying how much memory it has, disk capacity, CPUs etc... i also want to know how to connect a terminal up to it so i can get it running on my network and see what's on it. It was operational the last time it was turned on, i had to pull the network and power out of the back of it when i had it so it hasn't been moved since it was powered off... it used to have a keyboard and a large colour monitor on it, sadly i dont have these. The CD-Rom drive was also removed for some reason. There's a label on the front: 7013 26-0111 and one on the back saying: "This machine upgraded to General Availability level on 04/10/91" If anyone has any details on this can you please contact me! there are some pictures of it at: http://www.daneel.demon.co.uk/images/power01.jpg http://www.daneel.demon.co.uk/images/power02.jpg http://www.daneel.demon.co.uk/images/power03.jpg http://www.daneel.demon.co.uk/images/power04.jpg http://www.daneel.demon.co.uk/images/power05.jpg in case your wondering, i'm in the UK many thanks mark nias ============================== Mark Nias - http://www.mr2.net ============================== From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 29 11:48:32 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay In-Reply-To: <988560205.3aec3b4dbae32@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: I had a person from the PS/2 newsgroup want to pay me for a floppy drive for his portable and the need for speed was there, so instead of putting it on closed auction I just simply told him what the cost was, sent him a PayPal invoice, and waited for reply. PayPal showed the item paid for within the hour and I shipped it that afternoon. Paypal charged me 30 cents for the transfer which wasn't bad (about 3%) and he got the drive way before he would have had his money order reach me. Another good side to this method is that people can use a check or credit card, they don't have to pay expensive money order fees, I don't have to screw with bad checks, and the item ships asap, with a receipt from PayPal for the transaction. I also sold a Compaq with EISA to a hospital lab in Boulder and they paid by credit card without the item needing to be on auction. It was also shipped same/next day. I make a buck or two on the items but I'm not getting rich with it, and the reciever has the convenience of not having to get and mail a money order and wait until it gets to me to ship, plus I clear my area much quicker this way. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeffrey S. Sharp > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 11:03 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Amiga items on eBay > > > Quoting Mike Ford : > > I find it distastefull to sell in this fashion to your friends, > > and that is how I see the people on this list. > > I don't know; that's a gray area. I have had a friend bid and win > on an auction (not a classiccmp item), and he was completely > satisfied. But then again that was only one guy, so not even I'm > convinced. > > Like I have said before, I would offer something to the list before > I would sell it on eBay. Not that I have much to offer, but you > never know, I might just run across the motherlode someday. > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From tony.eros at machm.org Sun Apr 29 12:13:22 2001 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <3AEC40FF.2A0CE8D6@rain.org> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010429130827.02e6f1c0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Yeah, but in much the same way that the phone knows when you're taking a bath, my cable modem knows when I'm planning to snipe and on at least three occasions decided to start resynching with the network about a minute before the end of an auction I wanted. -- Tony At 09:27 AM 4/29/2001 -0700, you wrote: >"Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. > > > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there > > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. > >As the saying goes, those of you who wait until the last minute to bid will >always get >beat out by those of us who wait until the last *second*. From ken.keller at sk.sympatico.ca Sun Apr 29 13:56:09 2001 From: ken.keller at sk.sympatico.ca (Gen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Apple //c manuals? Message-ID: <005501c0d0de$0e621540$4745a58e@bernice> Does anyone know were I can find Manuals (preferably in text or html format) for an Apple //c online? I'm not looking to buy them, just to use them as a reference. Thanks, ~Gen~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010429/3eb2f215/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 29 12:30:09 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <01042822134101.00787@fatty> from "Brian Roth" at Apr 28, 1 10:09:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 563 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010429/397c4f94/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 29 13:21:56 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: (fwd) FS: Tektronix 575 Transistor Curve Tracer (Surrey, UK) (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Apr 29, 1 10:28:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010429/06a857c1/attachment.ksh From rhblake at bigfoot.com Sun Apr 29 15:54:11 2001 From: rhblake at bigfoot.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010429130827.02e6f1c0@mail.njd.concentric.com> Message-ID: I know the feeling - my dialup decides to disconnect me from the server about the same time your cable modem resyncs. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Eros > Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 12:13 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp > > > Yeah, but in much the same way that the phone knows when you're taking a > bath, my cable modem knows when I'm planning to snipe and on at > least three > occasions decided to start resynching with the network about a minute > before the end of an auction I wanted. > > -- Tony > > At 09:27 AM 4/29/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > > >"Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > > > > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > > > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. > > > > > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there > > > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. > > > >As the saying goes, those of you who wait until the last minute > to bid will > >always get > >beat out by those of us who wait until the last *second*. > From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 29 16:56:00 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <988561435.3aec401b80e3f@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <524.519T0T13763177optimus@canit.se> Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >Quoting Iggy Drougge : >> But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! >Well, you see, there is/are some program(s), called the "operating >system", that you aren't turning off. You turn it off by running >the shutdown procedure. Why would I turn off the OS? It's just running there and has no business on my disks. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I dunno, I dream in Perl sometimes... --Larry Wall in <8538@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV> From optimus at canit.se Sun Apr 29 16:58:18 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Apple //c manuals? In-Reply-To: <005501c0d0de$0e621540$4745a58e@bernice> Message-ID: <515.519T900T13784041optimus@canit.se> Gen skrev: >Does anyone know were I can find Manuals (preferably in text or html format) >for an Apple //c online? I'm not looking to buy them, just to use them as a >reference. > > As much as you might "prefer" HTML format, the rest of us don't. Please stop polluting the list. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Just don't compare it with a real language, or you'll be unhappy... :-) --Larry Wall (perl) in <1992May12.190238.5667@netlabs.com> From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 29 16:31:00 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:47 2005 Subject: Storageworks SBB Cases Message-ID: <200104292131.f3TLV0w11168@narnia.int.dittman.net> Does anyone have any empty DEC Storageworks SBB cases available? I'm trying to find some 5.25" cases I can stick a CDROM drive and DLT drive in to use with my Storageworks shelves so I can hot-swap the drives between my two systems. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From azog at azog.org Sun Apr 29 17:47:46 2001 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Charley Lasner Message-ID: <001201c0d0fe$699f6be0$0a00a8c0@azog> It occurs to me that there are several PDP-8'ers here. Quite some time ago, at least 1992, I got involved with a group of people, and one of them was Charley Lasner. As far as reptutation went, he was the guru of -8s. He lived in NYC at the time, and I visited him for the weekend. Actually, it was the very same weekend that ST:TNG premired, because I was little disappointed that I missed it, but I figured hacking was more important! So, does anyone remember him or know how to reach him? azog at azog dot org "Fools! You have no possible idea of what power you toy with! Release the pig!" From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Apr 29 18:00:23 2001 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync;y In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The first sync wrote all the 'dirty' buffers to disc. The second sync writes the new 'dirty' buffers (with changed disc usage bitmaps). The third sync was just for good measure. clint On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Alex Holden wrote: > On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Bill Pechter wrote: > > sync > > sync > > sync > > and push the halt switch down > > generated enough sync's and time delays for even the older Dec > > controllers to flush all the buffers and then halt. > > Why was it necessary to run sync three times in a row rather than just > running it once and waiting for a few seconds? > > -- > ------- Alex Holden ------- > http://www.linuxhacker.org/ > http://www.robogeeks.org/ > > > From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Sun Apr 29 18:07:53 2001 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <01042807294402.01063@fatty> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010429160753.007de980@yellow.ucdavis.edu> 42 hours of no sleep will do ANYONE in, no matter what their age is! You're crazy! Edwin At 07:19 AM 4/28/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I just got back from out of state with another DEC haul. I filled my Astro van >to the roof with more docs software and misc before Mr. Landfill took them. > >Whew! 42 hours with no sleep. I'm getting too old for this. > >Brian. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 29 18:32:57 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul References: <3.0.5.32.20010429160753.007de980@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <000b01c0d104$b97375c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >> Whew! 42 hours with no sleep. I'm getting too old for this. > 42 hours of no sleep will do ANYONE in, no matter what their age is! > You're crazy! The Thing that got me is that he had time to make the posting before going to sleep. Priorities? John A. From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 29 18:38:27 2001 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Charley Lasner References: <001201c0d0fe$699f6be0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <001f01c0d105$7db61320$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > it was the very same weekend that ST:TNG premired I believe that TNG premiered in 1988-89. I remember getting all excited because it looked alot like CGI SFX. Turned out it was just digitally mastered model shots. Great results though. John A. From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Apr 29 19:04:54 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer References: <3AEB43FE.29921.27B58F0@localhost> Message-ID: <3AECAC26.8B6FB18@greenbelt.com> And this was a recent aquisition? Eric David Williams wrote: > > Please elaborate on the SWTPC systems. Just curious. > > I should have pics up soon. So far I've been looking things over. > As far as SWTPC stuff goes, I have three systems. Two are the > SWTPC 6800 boxen with reset and power buttons on the front. > The third is the same but the front panel doesn't have the same > SWTPC 6800 logo on it. It's just blank. There are several boards, > many I haven't IDed yet. So far I see 6800 CPU cards, some 8K > memory boards, some I/O cards, what looks like it might be a > prom burner, a disk controller (no drives though), a 16k memory > board and some more I haven't figured out yet. He has a bunch of > the manuals but has to locate them in his storage space first. I > plan on scanning them when I get them. That's the extent of what I > know so far about the SWTPC stuff. I'll post pics of the systems > and boards on my site soon. Have to dig up my digital camera first. > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Apr 29 19:16:39 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <3AECAEE7.18628179@greenbelt.com> "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. > And that can be a good or bad thing. I've been done and have done that to others. Bad and good, respectively. And waiting 30 seconds on a hot item may just make the winner pay more when you under bid their high bid, which is hidden. Its just like democracy and what Churchill said about it, "it's a lousy system, but until someone comes up with a better one, it's the best one that we've have." Eric > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu From chomko at greenbelt.com Sun Apr 29 19:19:41 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> <3AEC40FF.2A0CE8D6@rain.org> Message-ID: <3AECAF9D.9F9089C6@greenbelt.com> Marvin wrote: > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. > > > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there > > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. > > As the saying goes, those of you who wait until the last minute to bid will > always get > beat out by those of us who wait until the last *second*. When I don't want to wait or can't, then I bid the top amount that I'm willing to pay. If the current bid is $6, and I'll pay $25, then I put $25 on it. If someone wins it at $26, then fine. Most of the time I'll get it for much less. Eric From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Apr 29 19:20:53 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: <001201c0d0fe$699f6be0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <20010430002053.67848.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Billy D'Augustine wrote: > It occurs to me that there are several PDP-8'ers here... Yep. > I got involved with... Charley Lasner. As far as reptutation went, he was > the guru of -8s. He lived in NYC at the time... Queens, specifically. I visited him in 1994 and copied a stack of RX50s for my DECmate II. > So, does anyone remember him or know how to reach him? Remember him? Yes. I haven't spoken with him in years. We were going to play with OMNIBUS SCSI cards, but it never came about. There was something to do with multiple versions of the ROMs on the cards he had, and how they controlled floppies was subtly different. Sorry I can't help you find him. I'd like to say "hello" to him and see if he still wants to tweak those boards, or if it's worth just designing an OMNIBUS SCSI board from scratch. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Apr 29 19:34:52 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer In-Reply-To: <3AEAD521.23820.CA39AE@localhost> Message-ID: <20010430003452.79027.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Williams wrote: > I picked up several systems from a fellow list member... > a Netronics Explorer... What's an Explorer? -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Apr 29 18:47:24 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010429160753.007de980@yellow.ucdavis.edu> References: <3.0.5.32.20010429160753.007de980@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <01042919480706.00787@fatty> Thats what my wife said too... On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, you wrote: > 42 hours of no sleep will do ANYONE in, no matter what their age is! > You're crazy! > > Edwin > > At 07:19 AM 4/28/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >I just got back from out of state with another DEC haul. I filled my Astro > van > >to the roof with more docs software and misc before Mr. Landfill took them. > > > >Whew! 42 hours with no sleep. I'm getting too old for this. > > > >Brian. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 29 19:51:20 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: Charley Lasner (Billy D'Augustine) References: <001201c0d0fe$699f6be0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <15084.46856.933613.39390@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 29, Billy D'Augustine wrote: > It occurs to me that there are several PDP-8'ers here. Quite some time ago, > at least 1992, I got involved with a group of people, and one of them was > Charley Lasner. As far as reptutation went, he was the guru of -8s. He lived > in NYC at the time, and I visited him for the weekend. Actually, it was the > very same weekend that ST:TNG premired, because I was little disappointed > that I missed it, but I figured hacking was more important! > > So, does anyone remember him or know how to reach him? This hit the pdp8-lovers mailing list last year: >From: Robert Harper >Date: Tue Nov 7, 2000 10:35 pm >Subject: RE: [PDP8-Lovers] What Happened to Charles Lasner? > >I'm a long-time, close personal friend of Charlie's --- we've known each >other and worked together for nearly 30 years now, dating back to the early >days of the -8. I got concerned about him about a year ago, and tracked him >down through his brother. He's doing fine, spending much of his time on >Long Island with a new (at that time) female friend. His e-mail address >hasn't changed ( lasner@s...). I don't know why he's dropped out >of the PDP8-Lovers discussion. As far as I know he's alive and well and >happy, but probably preoccupied with a variety of projects and interests. -Dave McGuire From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Apr 29 18:48:30 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <000b01c0d104$b97375c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <3.0.5.32.20010429160753.007de980@yellow.ucdavis.edu> <000b01c0d104$b97375c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01042919592007.00787@fatty> Maybe delerious? What must have been hilarious to watch was the rally I had with a guy the last two hours of the trip. I was doggin and just wanted to get home ASAP when this guy in a new Jetta passed me going at a pretty good clip. AH HA! my ticket home. I started shadowing him and I think he took that as a challenge as he tried to get away from me. Imagine some dork with bloodshot eyes in an old Astro van heaped to the dome light with old computer crap, hauling ass down the interstate trying to keep up with a college kid in a sports car. I think my wife wants to put me on medicine. Brian. On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, you wrote: > >> Whew! 42 hours with no sleep. I'm getting too old for this. > > > 42 hours of no sleep will do ANYONE in, no matter what their age is! > > You're crazy! > > The Thing that got me is that he had time to make > the posting before going to sleep. Priorities? > > John A. -- Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From kfergaso at swbell.net Sun Apr 29 20:52:51 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... Message-ID: <0GCK0046CYNN6U@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> Hi Iggy Drougge, you wrote on 4/29/01 3:56:00 PM: >Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: > >Quoting Iggy Drougge : >> But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! > >Well, you see, there is/are some program(s), called the "operating >system", that you aren't turning off. You turn it off by running >the shutdown procedure. > >Why would I turn off the OS? It's just running there and has no business >on my >disks. So, how do you get to "your disks" without going through the OS? Kelly From kfergaso at swbell.net Sun Apr 29 20:59:46 2001 From: kfergaso at swbell.net (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer Message-ID: <0GCK002VHYQDEH@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> It was for David. I picked up the the stuff 9-10 years ago at a Texas A&M auction. the VIP's also. Hi Eric Chomko, you wrote on 4/29/01 6:04:54 PM: >And this was a recent aquisition? > >Eric > >David Williams wrote: > > > Please elaborate on the SWTPC systems. Just curious. > > I should have pics up soon. So far I've been looking things over. > As far as SWTPC stuff goes, I have three systems. Two are the > SWTPC 6800 boxen with reset and power buttons on the front. > The third is the same but the front panel doesn't have the same > SWTPC 6800 logo on it. It's just blank. There are several boards, > many I haven't IDed yet. So far I see 6800 CPU cards, some 8K > memory boards, some I/O cards, what looks like it might be a > prom burner, a disk controller (no drives though), a 16k memory > board and some more I haven't figured out yet. He has a bunch of > the manuals but has to locate them in his storage space first. I > plan on scanning them when I get them. That's the extent of what I > know so far about the SWTPC stuff. I'll post pics of the systems > and boards on my site soon. Have to dig up my digital camera first. > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com > > From dlw at trailingedge.com Sun Apr 29 21:19:50 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer In-Reply-To: <3AECAC26.8B6FB18@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <3AEC8576.18647.233580@localhost> Yes, I just picked it all up Saturday morning. Does that make a difference? On 29 Apr 2001, at 20:04, Eric Chomko wrote: > And this was a recent aquisition? > > Eric ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Sun Apr 29 21:20:44 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer In-Reply-To: <0GCK002VHYQDEH@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <3AEC85AC.17546.240A79@localhost> > It was for David. > > I picked up the the stuff 9-10 years ago at > a Texas A&M auction. the VIP's also. And I thank you for it all again Kelly. :-) ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Apr 29 21:27:46 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> <3AECAEE7.18628179@greenbelt.com> Message-ID: <004a01c0d11d$257bc8e0$b2a0b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> "Eric Chomko" wrote: > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > > The current bidding system leaves much to be desired. > > > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* wait until there > > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. > > > > And that can be a good or bad thing. I've been done and have done > that to others. Bad and good, respectively. And waiting 30 seconds > on a hot item may just make the winner pay more when you under bid > their high bid, which is hidden. Sometimes the good thing is that you are outbid. I sometimes get a case of instant buyer's remorse, and then am relieved when some other bidder takes me off the hook. From vance at ikickass.org Sun Apr 29 21:29:09 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: <001f01c0d105$7db61320$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: TNG premiered in 1987, a couple weeks after IBM introduced the PS/2 with those ridiculous fake-Charlie-Chaplin ads. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, John Allain wrote: > > it was the very same weekend that ST:TNG premired > > I believe that TNG premiered in 1988-89. > I remember getting all excited because it looked alot > like CGI SFX. Turned out it was just digitally mastered > model shots. Great results though. > > John A. > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 29 21:29:40 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Storageworks SBB Cases In-Reply-To: <200104292131.f3TLV0w11168@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: >Does anyone have any empty DEC Storageworks SBB cases >available? I'm trying to find some 5.25" cases I can >stick a CDROM drive and DLT drive in to use with my >Storageworks shelves so I can hot-swap the drives >between my two systems. Good luck, the 5.25" ones are so rare I've never been able to get my hands on one. Your best bet for finding one for a semi-outragous price (as opposed to totally outragous price) is eBay. I'm pretty much totally StorageWorks for my DEC gear, and I often wonder why I don't get smart and move to a 3rd party solution. Though I can't wait to get a house so I can fire up my StorageWorks RAID arrays :^) Just got a DEC PCI Diff card so I'll be able to connect to one of them on Friday. I for one would love an affordable CD-ROM SBB, and TZ88 or TZ89 SBB :^) Still figure the odds of that happening! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dlw at trailingedge.com Sun Apr 29 21:27:13 2001 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer In-Reply-To: <20010430003452.79027.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3AEAD521.23820.CA39AE@localhost> Message-ID: <3AEC8731.4700.29F6C6@localhost> On 29 Apr 2001, at 17:34, Ethan Dicks wrote: > --- David Williams wrote: > > I picked up several systems from a fellow list member... > > a Netronics Explorer... > > What's an Explorer? The Explorer Computer is a small Intel 8085 S-100 box with 2 slots. Made by Netronics Research And Development Limited. This one has a card which reads "16K RAM" but that's a lot of chips for just 16K. Right number for 64K if these are 16k chips. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From vance at ikickass.org Sun Apr 29 21:35:53 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <01042919592007.00787@fatty> Message-ID: Since when is a Jetta a sports car? 8-) Peace... Sridhar, proud owner of a BMW 530i, modified. On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > Maybe delerious? > > What must have been hilarious to watch was the rally I had with a guy the > last two hours of the trip. I was doggin and just wanted to get home ASAP when > this guy in a new Jetta passed me going at a pretty good clip. > > AH HA! my ticket home. I started shadowing him and I think he took that as a > challenge as he tried to get away from me. > > Imagine some dork with bloodshot eyes in an old Astro van heaped to the dome > light with old computer crap, hauling ass down the interstate trying to keep up > with a college kid in a sports car. > > I think my wife wants to put me on medicine. > > Brian. > > On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, you wrote: > >> Whew! 42 > hours with no sleep. I'm getting too old for this. > > > 42 hours of no sleep > will do ANYONE in, no matter what their age is! > > You're crazy! > > > > The Thing that got me is that he had time to make > > the posting before going to sleep. Priorities? > > > > John A. > -- > > Brian Roth - System Administrator > www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository > > Preoccupation is my main occupation..... > From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 29 17:54:52 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Computer Renaissance In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010429125532.00b25310@206.231.8.2> References: <20010425021343.PXHO17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20010430025309.LYLO28050.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 12:59:10 -0400 > To: jpero@sympatico.ca > From: Christian Fandt > Subject: Re: Nabu Computers Available... > Upon the date 10:15 PM 4/24/01 +0000, jpero@sympatico.ca said something like: > -- snip -- > >Overpriced! Found my 230MB MO 3.5" based on Olypmus mech in a APS > >case for 20 US in C.R. south of Rochester next to Jefferson rd. :-) > > Hi Wiz, Hi Fandt, Talked to my friend in USA and found that full name. it's horrible name to remember. :-) Computer Renaissance Computer Renaissance 376 Jefferson Rd - Across from Southtown Plaza Rochester, NY 14623 Phone: 716-424-2050 www.compren.com has address locator, jam your zip code there and it will cheerfully give you nearest C.R. stores. Many of the ASIS markers on used loose parts in bins and lot of used computers are functional, I find MCA cards and Mac parts as well as generic stuff. Prices is sorta ok but worth checking out. Cheers, Wizard From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 29 21:54:07 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: Re: Another DEC haul (Vance Dereksen) References: <01042919592007.00787@fatty> Message-ID: <15084.54223.216644.997208@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 29, Vance Dereksen wrote: > Since when is a Jetta a sports car? 8-) > > Peace... Sridhar, proud owner of a BMW 530i, modified. Hey Sridhar...next time you come down this way, you've gotta bring that car of yours! -Dave McGuire From broth at heathers.stdio.com Sun Apr 29 20:59:37 2001 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01042922014808.00787@fatty> Compared to an Astro van a VW Bug is a sports car.... BTW lowered, turbo'ed 300E in the garage... On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, you wrote: > Since when is a Jetta a sports car? 8-) > > Peace... Sridhar, proud owner of a BMW 530i, modified. > > On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > > > Maybe delerious? > > Brian Roth - System Administrator www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository Preoccupation is my main occupation..... From vance at ikickass.org Sun Apr 29 22:03:47 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <15084.54223.216644.997208@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Sure! You gave me a ride in yours, it's only fair I give you a ride in mine. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 29, Vance Dereksen wrote: > > Since when is a Jetta a sports car? 8-) > > > > Peace... Sridhar, proud owner of a BMW 530i, modified. > > Hey Sridhar...next time you come down this way, you've gotta bring > that car of yours! > > -Dave McGuire > From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 29 22:30:06 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Storageworks SBB Cases In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 29, 2001 07:29:40 PM Message-ID: <200104300330.f3U3U6W01122@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >Does anyone have any empty DEC Storageworks SBB cases > >available? I'm trying to find some 5.25" cases I can > >stick a CDROM drive and DLT drive in to use with my > >Storageworks shelves so I can hot-swap the drives > >between my two systems. > > Good luck, the 5.25" ones are so rare I've never been able to get my hands > on one. Your best bet for finding one for a semi-outragous price (as > opposed to totally outragous price) is eBay. I've never seen empty 5.25" SBB cases on eBay. I'm hoping to find some cases that people have pulled the guts out of to use somewhere else or have had the drives fail. > I'm pretty much totally StorageWorks for my DEC gear, and I often wonder > why I don't get smart and move to a 3rd party solution. Though I can't > wait to get a house so I can fire up my StorageWorks RAID arrays :^) Just > got a DEC PCI Diff card so I'll be able to connect to one of them on Friday. I've got a BA350, BA356, and RaidArray 310. I'd like to get another HSZ20 to use with the one in the RA310 for redundant backup. Even better I'd like to get an HSZ40 (or two). I'm using the RA310 in a SCSI cluster with two PWS500au systems with a FWD card in each box. > I for one would love an affordable CD-ROM SBB, and TZ88 or TZ89 SBB :^) > Still figure the odds of that happening! I have a DLT4000 (the same as a TZ87). I'd like a TZ88 or TZ89, but the DLT4000 works okay for now (and was much cheaper than a TZ88). -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vance at ikickass.org Sun Apr 29 23:00:43 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <01042922014808.00787@fatty> Message-ID: *whoot* Nice wheels. Peace... Sridhar On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > Compared to an Astro van a VW Bug is a sports car.... > > BTW lowered, turbo'ed 300E in the garage... > > On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, you wrote: > > Since when is a Jetta a sports car? 8-) > > > > Peace... Sridhar, proud owner of a BMW 530i, modified. > > > > On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Brian Roth wrote: > > > > > Maybe delerious? > > > > > Brian Roth - System Administrator > www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository > > Preoccupation is my main occupation..... > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Apr 29 23:24:32 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? In-Reply-To: <200104271409.KAA20216@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20010430042432.49785.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > also available: > > http://come.to/ide64 > > This is an IDE interface for the C-64, which has a dual port RS-232 > interface. I have an older model of this... no "short bus" for add-on peripherals, but it does do the IDE part fine. I have a 1.3" HP Kittyhawk drive on mine. Kind of a C-64 hard card. Fun little project these guys have. -ethan ===== Visit "The Seventh Continent" http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Apr 29 23:34:22 2001 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: NEC Japanese word processors (was Re: Newly acquired) In-Reply-To: <1064.518T1900T9135189optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20010430043422.89059.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Today, I was at the fleamarket and found a Japanese word processor with > carrying case. It's a NEC Mini-5 thing. Could actually be useful, providing > the LCD still works. Cost me 40 crowns. I just got a similar box recently, too, an NEC Mini-7. I found few web resources for it. Mine has all the docs, etc., but I only read katakana and hirigana, not many kanji, making the docs of limited use to me. I also have a Sharp portable Japanese word processor that I _have_ figured out how to use, but I can't get ribbons in the U.S. for it. :-( -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jss at ou.edu Sun Apr 29 23:42:35 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <524.519T0T13763177optimus@canit.se> References: <524.519T0T13763177optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <988605755.3aeced3b56308@email.ou.edu> Quoting Iggy Drougge : > Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: > > Quoting Iggy Drougge : > > > But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! > > > > Well, you see, there is/are some program(s), called the "operating > > system", that you aren't turning off. You turn it off by running > > the shutdown procedure. > > Why would I turn off the OS? It's just running there and has no > business on my disks. Actually, the OS is the only thing that ever writes to your disks. Other programs can merely request that it be done. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Apr 29 23:53:48 2001 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Vance Dereksen wrote: > TNG premiered in 1987, a couple weeks after IBM introduced the PS/2 with > those ridiculous fake-Charlie-Chaplin ads. IBM started using Chaplin's character from the beginning of the PC (8/11/81). They actually licensed the character from Chaplin's estate. Can you IMAGINE how Chaplin, with his politics (communist?), would have felt about endorsing IBM?? The licensing gave IBM some extra leverage; when Otrona did a commercial with a Chaplin look-alike IBM was able to force them to back off. Does anyone here have a copy of the Otrona ad? I thought that the PS/2 (model 30? and 50?) was intro'd in 1986 - does anyone have the exact date? From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 29 20:16:23 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20010430051419.NTUV7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:53:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Vance Dereksen wrote: > > TNG premiered in 1987, a couple weeks after IBM introduced the PS/2 with > > those ridiculous fake-Charlie-Chaplin ads. Snip > > I thought that the PS/2 (model 30? and 50?) was intro'd in 1986 - does > anyone have the exact date? IBM intro'd these two models including 70 and 80 in '87 after closing out XTs, ATs. Also 25, 25 286 and 30 286 came out later on, as well as tuned up 50Z. Much better 70's and P70s, faster 80s for two generations more. I find 30 and 55SX far common boxens then 35, 40 and 56. Lots of inbetween models based on 386sx, more efficient SLC, SLC2 and SLC3, some MCA some ISA. And more serious MCA machines such as P75, 85 and 90, 95 in early to mid 90's as well as famous 77's. During that periods, IBM came out with wimpy non-standard PS/1s then turned into better machines and standardized parts, more consumer machines that we know now and deal with daily. The MCA faded away after '95. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Apr 29 20:19:20 2001 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: (Fwd) [swap] followup: NeXT Message-ID: <20010430051716.MEWZ15395.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Reply to this owner not me! Wizard ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: (LEM Swap List) Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 07:44:32 -0700 Subject: [swap] followup: NeXT From: "raino" LEM-Swap is for buying & selling Mac stuff. It is not a discussion list. -------------------- Hi all, I am gathering the memory offers on the NeXT hardware. If you have sent me a generic, "what do you want for..." email, please, if you could: make me an offer. I am comparing the offers made and will be making a decision Sunday or Monday. The RAM is for computers I am giving to kids who live in foster care situations, so you can be sure I will be going for best offers. RAM type needed: for ppc 6100, 7100, 8100, performa 520/550/575/580, quadra 630/640, centris 610/660 AV, 7200, 7300, 7600, powercomputing powerwave I have: 1. 3 very clean NeXT boxes (040 25 MhZ) 250 MD hard drive (needs to be reformated and OS loaded) 20 MB RAM 2. 4 MegaPixel NeXT Displays with monitor cable, very clean 3. 14 NeXT keyboards, clean 4. 3 NeXT mouses (will go with boxes if trade includes), clean 5. 3 NeXT 12x external CD DRIVES with cables, very clean 6. 3 NeXT laser printers (these are sharp looking!) with cables raino -- LEM-Swap is sponsored by LowEndMac.com and... 123Inkjets.com Back To The Future Trilogy, other movies available on VideoCD from CoolVCD Save on Mac software -- Shop Software Outlet.com - - - - - LEM-Swap list info: Send list messages to: To unsubscribe, email: For digest mode, email: Subscription questions: List archive: Using a Macintosh? Get free email and more at Applelinks! From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 30 00:26:41 2001 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: Re: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner (jpero@sympatico.ca) References: <20010430051419.NTUV7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <15084.63377.386190.994067@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 30, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > The MCA faded away after '95. A very knowledgeable individual on this list (hi Sridhar!) mentioned to me once that modernized MCA (faster, 64-bit, etc) was seen in new machines much more recently than that. Sridhar? -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 30 00:41:13 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Shutting down cleanly ... sync; sync; sync; In-Reply-To: <20010428051316Z433893-14285+177@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> References: <200104280121.VAA09168@world.std.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010429223747.026df9f0@208.226.86.10> > On the 11/45 I recall using the fgront panel to halt the >processor after the sync sequence. My notes on an early UNIX were "System Shutdown As the operating system keeps some critical data in core to speed up disk operations, it is necessary to use the sync(1) command to force this data to be written to disk before shutting down the system. Due to interactions with the scheduler it may be necessary to type sync two or three times to insure that it has actually been completed before depressing HALT." --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Apr 30 00:43:12 2001 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: VaXLab & VaxStation II In-Reply-To: <008301c0cfe2$a0034020$48d6f6d1@headleys> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20010429224159.00a97a50@208.226.86.10> They are both MicroVAX II's as far as I can tell. I too picked up a VAXLab and can't see how it is different than the MV2. (I expected it to have a KA620 VAXEln card in it instead of the KA630) Headley, why not do an inventory of the boards and post it here. --Chuck At 08:56 AM 4/28/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all >I ran across these two items yesterday and is thinking about purchasing >them (one or the other, not both). I have zero knowledge of the DEC >systems, but the Vaxlab, I never heard of before. > >Can someone give me a little info on these especially the Vaxlab. I would >like to know what was it used for and give me a link with some info. Also >what price should I pay for this, not knowing if it works or not. The >place I am buying it from is known for unrealistic prices, so I did not >bother to ask until I know if I need it. > >Headley From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Apr 30 01:51:24 2001 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: References: <01042919592007.00787@fatty> Message-ID: >Since when is a Jetta a sports car? 8-) When you drive a minivan, EVERYTHING else is a sportscar. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Apr 30 07:37:12 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: NeXT (was: followup: NeXT) In-Reply-To: <20010430051716.MEWZ15395.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at "Apr 30, 1 01:19:20 am" Message-ID: <200104301237.FAA10236@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Speaking of NeXTs, Curt, is everything still proceeding with those NeXT stations? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you want divine justice, die. -- Nick Seldon ---------------------------- From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 30 08:17:47 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: SWTPC, RCA VIP, Super Pet and Netronic Explorer References: <3AEC8576.18647.233580@localhost> Message-ID: <3AED65FB.63F795F@greenbelt.com> Not at all. Just curious. It's just that your description of the stuff sounded so familar I ran downstairs to check if my stuff was still there! Just kidding...actually I prize my SS-50 computer equipment the most in my collection. Check out: http://www.greenbelt.com/chomko/index.html Follow the link to my computer in a classic computer museum. I also have a very crude page (no pictures, yet) containing a portion of my computer collection. Please forgive my site as it is very basic as of yet. I really do need to add pictures and make it more presentable. Eric David Williams wrote: > Yes, I just picked it all up Saturday morning. Does that make a > difference? > > On 29 Apr 2001, at 20:04, Eric Chomko wrote: > > > And this was a recent aquisition? > > > > Eric > > ----- > David Williams - Computer Packrat > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, > then and only then can we know things as they are." > dlw@trailingedge.com > http://www.trailingedge.com From chomko at greenbelt.com Mon Apr 30 08:20:51 2001 From: chomko at greenbelt.com (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Amiga items on eBay -- advertising auctions on classiccmp References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> <00e401c0ce92$1c975240$6f00a8c0@GamerClaude> <988382752.3ae9862022376@email.ou.edu> <20010427112310.A11478@alcor.concordia.ca> <988560559.3aec3cafb7936@email.ou.edu> <3AECAEE7.18628179@greenbelt.com> <004a01c0d11d$257bc8e0$b2a0b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3AED66B3.3F1516F7@greenbelt.com> "Wayne M. Smith" wrote: > "Eric Chomko" wrote: > > > "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > > > > Quoting Jeff Hellige : > > > > The current bidding system leaves much to be > desired. > > > > > > I agree. There is absolutely no incentive to *not* > wait until there > > > are 30 seconds left to go in an auction. > > > > > > > And that can be a good or bad thing. I've been done > and have done > > that to others. Bad and good, respectively. And > waiting 30 seconds > > on a hot item may just make the winner pay more when > you under bid > > their high bid, which is hidden. > > Sometimes the good thing is that you are outbid. I > sometimes get a case of instant buyer's remorse, and > then am relieved when some other bidder takes me off > the hook. I used to be an impluse buyer as well. As a coin collector I learned to buy only the stuff that I would regret NOT getting, rather than buying everything that seemed interesting. I streamline all my eBay purchases to "must haves." Doesn't ALWAYS work but I have elminated a lot of excess that way. Eric From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Apr 30 08:25:00 2001 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: <20010430002053.67848.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <001201c0d0fe$699f6be0$0a00a8c0@azog> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010430082351.01d3f6b0@pc> At 05:20 PM 4/29/01 -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> I got involved with... Charley Lasner. As far as reptutation went, he was >> the guru of -8s. He lived in NYC at the time... > >Queens, specifically. I visited him in 1994 and copied a stack of >RX50s for my DECmate II. Lasner, Charles 7255 Metropolitan Ave, Middle Village, NY 11379-2107 (718)894-6499 Thanks to www.switchboard.com and "How many Lasners could there be in NYC?" - John From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 30 09:13:13 2001 From: vance at ikickass.org (Vance Dereksen) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner In-Reply-To: <20010430051419.NTUV7365.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: I have a Type-4 upgraded Model 95, a Type-A Model 80 with the Blue Lightning upgrade, an original Model 50 (not a 50z) with an AOX Micromaster upgrade, and two dual-pentium PCI/MCA PC Server 320's which, incidentally, are REALLY nice machines which I highly recommend. I will look up the exact date, but the PS/2s which were released in the first line were the 25/30, 50/60, and the 70/80. All the others came later, including the 35/40 (rare), the P70/P75, L40SX/N51SX/CL57SX, the 56/57, 76/77, etc. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:53:48 -0700 (PDT) > > From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Chaplin (was: Charley Lasner > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > On Sun, 29 Apr 2001, Vance Dereksen wrote: > > > TNG premiered in 1987, a couple weeks after IBM introduced the PS/2 with > > > those ridiculous fake-Charlie-Chaplin ads. > > Snip > > > > > I thought that the PS/2 (model 30? and 50?) was intro'd in 1986 - does > > anyone have the exact date? > > IBM intro'd these two models including 70 and 80 in '87 after closing > out XTs, ATs. > > Also 25, 25 286 and 30 286 came out later on, as well as tuned up > 50Z. Much better 70's and P70s, faster 80s for two generations more. > > I find 30 and 55SX far common boxens then 35, 40 and 56. > > Lots of inbetween models based on > 386sx, more efficient SLC, SLC2 and SLC3, some MCA some ISA. And > more serious MCA machines such as P75, 85 and 90, 95 in early to mid > 90's as well as famous 77's. During that periods, IBM came out with > wimpy non-standard PS/1s then turned into better machines and > standardized parts, more consumer machines that we know now and deal > with daily. > > The MCA faded away after '95. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Apr 30 09:54:26 2001 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Hmm...what the heck kind of cable is this???? Message-ID: We used to make all of our own cables and sometimes even build our own computer systems. We built several using a Heurikon system board, Fujitsu Eagle 400 MB drives, Kennedy tape drive, wyse terminals, Western Digital 5 1/4 disk drive, Printronix printer, Hyperchannel network boards and hubs and a Ramtek color monitor. Cabling was always a nightmare. Cable clamshell covers always got left off so we could visually inspect the connections. One hint never solder up 25 pin cable connections after having a beer. My eye hand coordination slips. Every device seemed to prefer its own "flavor" of connection. tie 6-8-20 together, crossover 2,3,4,5. Lots of our connections were straight through with the cross-overs in the connector or gender changer. We usually cut large holes in the wall, it was easier to plaster a hole than cut off and reconnect a cable end connector. Of course many just hung down from the ceiling. Our tech always carried a breakout box and several gender changers. We also had a little vacuum based vise to hold the connector while you soldered on it. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 30 12:09:15 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Storageworks SBB Cases In-Reply-To: <200104300330.f3U3U6W01122@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 29, 2001 07:29:40 PM Message-ID: >I've never seen empty 5.25" SBB cases on eBay. I'm hoping >to find some cases that people have pulled the guts out of >to use somewhere else or have had the drives fail. OK, I think you've got a point there, it's rare enough that I see empty 3.5" ones up there. However, I think I have seen CD-ROM's in the SBB's before. Just out of my price range, IIRC. >I've got a BA350, BA356, and RaidArray 310. I'd like to get >another HSZ20 to use with the one in the RA310 for redundant >backup. Even better I'd like to get an HSZ40 (or two). I'm >using the RA310 in a SCSI cluster with two PWS500au systems >with a FWD card in each box. I forget what the beasties I've got are called. Three shelves for disks, and one shelf for the RAID Controllers. I'm pretty sure the controllers are either HSZ40's or 50's. Then there are the 4 BA350's. I'm still looking for at least one BA356. Now how on earth are you getting a FWD card to work in PWS500au's, or maybe I should ask which card? That's a KZPSA isn't it? I tried the KZPSA I just got in my PWS433au, and it wouldn't boot, as it complained about an unrecognized card. >I have a DLT4000 (the same as a TZ87). I'd like a TZ88 >or TZ89, but the DLT4000 works okay for now (and was >much cheaper than a TZ88). I just got a DLT2000 (unfortuantly not quite the same thing as a TZ86), but haven't tried it out yet. At one point my primary server was an AlphaStation 500/333 with two BA350's and a Exabyte Jukebox. I've trimmed that down to one BA350 to save power, and the weekend before last I replaced the AlphaStation 500/333 with only 96MB of RAM with the AlphaStation 200 4/233 with 384MB of RAM (can't afford RAM for the 500, but got the RAM in the 200 for free from a friend) so I could run DECwindows on it, though I'll probably eventually swap it with the PWS433au in the next few weeks. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com Mon Apr 30 13:00:20 2001 From: brian.roth at firstniagarabank.com (brian roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: PDP8a question Message-ID: Are ther any docs online for the PDP8a, specifically the option boards switch settings? Brian. Brian Roth Network Services First Niagara Bank (716) 625-7500 X2186 Brian.Roth@FirstNiagaraBank.com From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 30 13:24:13 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Storageworks SBB Cases In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 30, 2001 10:09:15 AM Message-ID: <200104301824.f3UIODO03795@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >I've got a BA350, BA356, and RaidArray 310. I'd like to get > >another HSZ20 to use with the one in the RA310 for redundant > >backup. Even better I'd like to get an HSZ40 (or two). I'm > >using the RA310 in a SCSI cluster with two PWS500au systems > >with a FWD card in each box. > > I forget what the beasties I've got are called. Three shelves for disks, > and one shelf for the RAID Controllers. I'm pretty sure the controllers > are either HSZ40's or 50's. Then there are the 4 BA350's. I'm still > looking for at least one BA356. We've got some of these at work, but the controllers are the CI-connected HSJ40 controllers. The HSZ20 is an HSZ40 with two local SCSI busses instead of six (more or less). > Now how on earth are you getting a FWD card to work in PWS500au's, or maybe > I should ask which card? That's a KZPSA isn't it? I tried the KZPSA I > just got in my PWS433au, and it wouldn't boot, as it complained about an > unrecognized card. I'm using KZPSA cards. I've got an ISP1040A built-in as well on one of the PWS systems and an Intraserver U2W/Ethernet card in the other. The Intraserver is a leftover from when I was using a PC164LX system. I'm going to replace the board set in the other system with a set that includes the ISP1040A. At that point I'll remove the Intraserver card. That's another reason I want to find a couple of empty 5.25" SBB cases; I want to avoid trying to use the built-in ISP1040A controllers with external devices (which is not supported but may work). > >I have a DLT4000 (the same as a TZ87). I'd like a TZ88 > >or TZ89, but the DLT4000 works okay for now (and was > >much cheaper than a TZ88). > > I just got a DLT2000 (unfortuantly not quite the same thing as a TZ86), but > haven't tried it out yet. >From what I've read the big difference between the DLTx000 drives and the equivalent TZ8x drives is the TZ8x drives will read TK50/TK70 tapes, but I haven't tried yet. I suppose one could try to write the TZ8x firmware in the DLTx000 drives, but I'd rather just buy a cheap TK70 off eBay than risk destroying my DLT4000. > At one point my primary server was an AlphaStation 500/333 with two BA350's > and a Exabyte Jukebox. I've trimmed that down to one BA350 to save power, > and the weekend before last I replaced the AlphaStation 500/333 with only > 96MB of RAM with the AlphaStation 200 4/233 with 384MB of RAM (can't afford > RAM for the 500, but got the RAM in the 200 for free from a friend) so I > could run DECwindows on it, though I'll probably eventually swap it with > the PWS433au in the next few weeks. The AS200 4/233 was my first Alpha (my wife bought it for me to replace my VS3100, which I still have). I followed that with a couple of PC164 motherboards, then a PC164SX (which can't run VMS, so I used it for Digital Unix until I sold it), followed by a PC164LX, followed by three PWS500au systems (one of which has a ruined case but was bought as it had a 2MB cache module). I have someone digging up a replacement case, and I'm on the lookout for two more 2MB (or 4MB if I get lucky) cache modules. The PWS500au systems displaced the PC164 and PC164LX systems for VMS, so the PC164LX is my Tru64 system now. I also have a VS4000-60 running. The two VS3100 systems are kept around just-in-case, and I have a MVII which I'm mentioned is in line for a PDP-11 transplant as soon as I find a CPU and memory. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 30 12:40:18 2001 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: Another DEC haul In-Reply-To: <01042919592007.00787@fatty> from "Brian Roth" at Apr 29, 1 07:48:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 293 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010430/8647f7f8/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 30 06:41:39 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:48 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <988605755.3aeced3b56308@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <1018.520T1950T7616079optimus@canit.se> Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >Quoting Iggy Drougge : >> Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >> > Quoting Iggy Drougge : >> > > But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! >> > >> > Well, you see, there is/are some program(s), called the "operating >> > system", that you aren't turning off. You turn it off by running >> > the shutdown procedure. >> >> Why would I turn off the OS? It's just running there and has no >> business on my disks. >Actually, the OS is the only thing that ever writes to your disks. >Other programs can merely request that it be done. But the OS shouldn't issue requests to itself. It should serve the applications with disk services and shut up. IOW, just run. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. VIRGO (Aug 23 - Sept 22) You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and sometimes fall asleep while making love. Virgos make good bus drivers. From optimus at canit.se Mon Apr 30 06:37:31 2001 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <0GCK0046CYNN6U@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> Message-ID: <907.520T1550T7575235optimus@canit.se> Kelly Fergason skrev: >Hi Iggy Drougge, you wrote on 4/29/01 3:56:00 PM: >>Jeffrey S. Sharp skrev: >> >>Quoting Iggy Drougge : >>> But of course I turn the programs off before flicking the switch! >> >>Well, you see, there is/are some program(s), called the "operating >>system", that you aren't turning off. You turn it off by running >>the shutdown procedure. >> >>Why would I turn off the OS? It's just running there and has no business >>on my >>disks. >So, how do you get to "your disks" without going through the OS? Through the OS, but that doesn't mean that the OS in itself should ever touch my disks. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Questa sigla e' una figata!!! Un bel pezzo dance per un bel cartone dance!!! Pensate che la scorsa frase non abbia senso? Bah!, nemmeno mettere questa sigla a Sailormoon ha senso ^_^;;; Tacchan om den tyska signaturmelodin till Sailor Moon From bdc at world.std.com Mon Apr 30 17:58:44 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <907.520T1550T7575235optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 30 Apr 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Kelly Fergason skrev: > > So, how do you get to "your disks" without going through the OS? > > Through the OS, but that doesn't mean that the OS in itself should > ever touch my disks. This thread has kind of degraded into something relatively nonsensical. The primary lesson to be learned here is that all actions have consequences. So as long as you're prepared to accept the consequences (and hopefully not harm anyone in the process), it's not really a problem. Iggy, I'd imagine that if the stakes get a little higher at some point in the future, and if you stick with UNIX as an operating system, you'll change your practices a bit and live with the burdensome inconvenience of typing in the `shutdown' command. ObClassiccmp: Especially if you're running older UNIX operating systems on classic hardware. :-) -brian. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Apr 30 18:56:21 2001 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 booting question... In-Reply-To: <907.520T1550T7575235optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Apr 30, 1 12:37:31 pm" Message-ID: <200104302356.QAA09590@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >So, how do you get to "your disks" without going through the OS? > > Through the OS, but that doesn't mean that the OS in itself should ever touch > my disks. brain panic: circular reference saving core...saved. syncing disks: 1 2 3 4 5 [1] Rebooting... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. -- Albert Einstein ------------- From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Apr 30 19:03:19 2001 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: Anyone read.... References: Message-ID: <007601c0d1d2$40728c00$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> I rambled into: "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation" by Edwin Black, Crown at Books-a-Billion but didn't have the $24 bucks to walk away with it... Amazon.com has an excerpt from it. Anyone read it? - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 30 19:35:58 2001 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: Finds... (mainly Heathkit 3400) In-Reply-To: <988560205.3aec3b4dbae32@email.ou.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010426105658.01e00620@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010430203558.016f5220@mail.30below.com> Whoodoggie! Did I finally get a find, or what? Went to the local auction house (1st of the season) and they'd advertised a lot of Amateur (Ham) radio equipment (having gotten my license over the winter, and upgraded it in March, I was looking for my first HF rig - AB8KK if anyone's wondering...) and I got: Lotsa ham stuff, inc. 2 antennas & an Icom 745 (w/almost all the fixin's) - it's over 10 years old, and microprocessor controlled - that's why I mentioned it... (and a PackRatt TNC - heard it's a nice rig) They also had some apple stuff there, where I piced up an extra IIci for spares, and I rescued an Apple //gs (it's totally bare, tho, so it's not really useful to me as is) and a 3.5" and 5.25" floppy drive... But that's not the best of it: I have been looking for a Heathkit 3400 Microprocessor trainer for *years* and there was one there -- 6808 uP (6800 w/internal timer, same instruction set), 512 bytes RAM (a pair of 2114's - amazingly, they still work), 1K ROM, and (6) 7-segment LED's for primary program output... *and it works!* [1] I also got Heathkit digital trainer (3100, methinks?) and an HP trainer (with probe, extra display, etc.) Don't remember the # on that - I'll check it out more when I get home... $3.00USD each. Also, a *lot* of HeathKit Continuing Education series books (Most, if not all, still with Exam Papers) so that's some fun readin'... Anywho, I (unforch) didn't get any dox with the trainer (not that it's rocket science or anything...) but there's precious little info on the 'Net (amazingly) so I don't know where the I/O memory mapping is for the LED's & whatnot... Anyone out there have any info? (Just a basic memory map would be great!) Oh, and my 4-year-old thinks that trainer is a *whole lot cooler* than our Win98 box - Takes after the old man, that one does! ;-) Anywho, just thought I'd brag a little, and TIA for any help on it... I wanna write a couple little ditties for it, and interface some A/D & D/A projects to it... [1] 1 of the "binary output LED's" is burned out - no big deal, and everything else seems to work fine... Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 30 20:48:38 2001 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: DEC CD-Rom Drive RRD40-DA Questions!! Message-ID: <3AEE15F6.CB41DC51@internet1.net> I found this on Ebay. Is this really SCSI? I thought it ran off of a special board made just fot it.... the M7552? In fact is this one of the same drives that was given away on the list? I don't recall, who gave it away, but I recall him mentioning a cd being stuck in it, just like this one! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1233983573 I would buy it, but am unsure of exactly what it is. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From bdc at world.std.com Mon Apr 30 21:32:48 2001 From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: Anyone read.... In-Reply-To: <007601c0d1d2$40728c00$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Mike wrote: > I rambled into: > > "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany and > America's Most Powerful Corporation" by Edwin Black, Crown Wouldn't General Motors have been America's most powerful corporation at the time? > at Books-a-Billion but didn't have the $24 bucks to walk away with it... > Amazon.com has an excerpt from it. Anyone read it? Not yet, but I plan on reading it once I get a copy. -brian. From dittman at dittman.net Mon Apr 30 21:53:03 2001 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: DEC CD-Rom Drive RRD40-DA Questions!! In-Reply-To: <3AEE15F6.CB41DC51@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 30, 2001 09:48:38 PM Message-ID: <200105010253.f412r3r05663@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I found this on Ebay. Is this really SCSI? I thought it ran off of a > special board made just fot it.... the M7552? The board is a SCSI-LMS adapter. > In fact is this one of the same drives that was given away on the list? > I don't recall, who gave it away, but I recall him mentioning a cd being > stuck in it, just like this one! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1233983573 That's not one of the ones I was giving away. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Apr 30 17:47:41 2001 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (Netdiablo) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: DEC CD-Rom Drive RRD40-DA Questions!! Message-ID: <3AEDEB8D.81D855AF@diablonet.net> > I found this on Ebay. Is this really SCSI? I thought it ran off of a > special board made just fot it.... the M7552? > In fact is this one of the same drives that was given away on the list? > I don't recall, who gave it away, but I recall him mentioning a cd being > stuck in it, just like this one! > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1233983573 > I would buy it, but am unsure of exactly what it is. > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA This is an external DEC 1X CD-ROM drive, SCSI, 512 byte sectors. It uses a really strange type of caddy that was probably never used anywhere else. It took me a little while to figure out how to load/unload these things :) It works nicely as a 512 byte sector CD-ROM for getting those older workstations running, but it is EXTREMELY slow. Technically, I think that inside this enclosure is an interface converter board that changes the proprietary CD-ROM interface to SCSI. Kind of reminiscent of those external TK50 cubes for the uVAX 2000 that contained boards to convert the special TK50->TQK50 interface to SCSI. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Apr 30 22:35:46 2001 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: Finds... (mainly Heathkit 3400) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010430203558.016f5220@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: Roger.. congrats on the license and upgrade. Some while back the subject of classiccmpers who are also hams came up. I think somewhere around half of the active participants have the Affliction. Hmmm... a Classic Computer Collector's Net on 20 or 40 Meters? We'd need to get Sellam licensed... ;} Anyway... if by Packrat you mean an AEA PK232... they are a very nice TNC/Modem/Decoder... function set depending on the ROM Rev. And, (ObClassiccmp) I managed to purchase PK232 serial number 76 from a big ham store in Los Angeles the week they were introduced. After serial #100, production was transfered to Hong Kong, where it remained until AEA went under in 95 or 96 (IIRC). Also (ObClassiccmp) the PK232s were run by a classic Z80 chipset. And yes, I still own it, and two others of later vintage I picked up along the way. If you need any help getting it on the air, let me know via private e-mail and I'll try to help. Did you get any front-end software for it? Especially the AEA product, PC-PakRatt? Any 'KISS' TNC software will talk to the 232, and it has a native 'command-line' oriented structure that can be accessed by anything that speaks RS232 ASCII, from 57 to 115K baud. Many folks use them with dumb terminals, or PCs running terminal emu software. Once, just for the Halibut, I hooked mine up to a DecWriter I and it worked fine. Cheerz KB6SCO /portable VU2 From jss at ou.edu Mon Apr 30 23:07:42 2001 From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: Anyone read.... In-Reply-To: <007601c0d1d2$40728c00$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> References: <007601c0d1d2$40728c00$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <988690062.3aee368e140e7@email.ou.edu> Quoting Mike : > "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi > Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation" by Edwin Black, > Crown I saw it at the local Hastings, but also didn't have the money to pick it up. I will read it this summer, though. I suspect it will try to shock me by detailing how IBM had sold technology of some kind to Germany before US involvement in World War II. While such a practice seems shocking today, it probably wasn't such a big deal back then. Correct me if my history is wrong, but it seems to me that Germany would have in fact been the best potential customer, being one country that made decent progress towards getting out of the depression that was widespread in Europe at the time. Also, this was before we all figured out that Naziism was a Bad Thing, right? Can anyone tell us what the book says? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss@ou.edu From wmsmith at earthlink.net Mon Apr 30 23:43:42 2001 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:49 2005 Subject: Anyone read.... References: <007601c0d1d2$40728c00$16db3fd0@DOMAIN> <988690062.3aee368e140e7@email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <002d01c0d1f9$4d0e0440$7499b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Quoting Mike : > > "IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi > > Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation" by Edwin Black, > > Crown > > I saw it at the local Hastings, but also didn't have the money to > pick it up. I will read it this summer, though. I suspect it will > try to shock me by detailing how IBM had sold technology of some > kind to Germany before US involvement in World War II. While such > a practice seems shocking today, it probably wasn't such a big deal > back then. Correct me if my history is wrong, but it seems to me > that Germany would have in fact been the best potential customer, > being one country that made decent progress towards getting out of > the depression that was widespread in Europe at the time. Also, > this was before we all figured out that Naziism was a Bad Thing, > right? > > Can anyone tell us what the book says? > > -- > Jeffrey S. Sharp > jss@ou.edu There's a number of reviews at the Amazon site. Reading them will give you a pretty good idea of what it's about. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 30 14:35:52 2001 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:02:53 2005 Subject: Storageworks SBB Cases In-Reply-To: <200104301824.f3UIODO03795@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 30, 2001 10:09:15 AM Message-ID: >> Now how on earth are you getting a FWD card to work in PWS500au's, or maybe >> I should ask which card? That's a KZPSA isn't it? I tried the KZPSA I >> just got in my PWS433au, and it wouldn't boot, as it complained about an >> unrecognized card. > >I'm using KZPSA cards. OK, that's wierd, looks like I'll have to do some inquiring on comp.os.vms. >I've got an ISP1040A built-in as well >on one of the PWS systems and an Intraserver U2W/Ethernet card >in the other. The Intraserver is a leftover from when I was >using a PC164LX system. I'm going to replace the board set >in the other system with a set that includes the ISP1040A. >At that point I'll remove the Intraserver card. That's >another reason I want to find a couple of empty 5.25" SBB >cases; I want to avoid trying to use the built-in ISP1040A >controllers with external devices (which is not supported >but may work). You're going to remove the Intraserver card?!?!?! If it was me I'd be putting a couple decent sized U2W SCSI disks on that sucker, instead of messing around with UW or worse SCSI disks! I'd really like to add an Intraserver card with a 3rd party tower of Ultra160 disks, that's my long-term plan. BTW, it sounds like your ISP1040A is on the Motherboard itself? My controller is a PCI card, while running Narrow SCSI devices off the connector on the board isn't supported, it works. You can plug your UW SCSI disks to the 68-pin connector, and Narrow to the 50-pin connector. What are you using for Graphics Cards? I've got an Elsa Gloria in my PWS433au, and it totally sucks. I get definite ripple on the left side when scrolling web pages in Netscape, and some problems when doing other things. >From what I've read the big difference between the DLTx000 drives and >the equivalent TZ8x drives is the TZ8x drives will read TK50/TK70 tapes, >but I haven't tried yet. I suppose one could try to write the TZ8x >firmware in the DLTx000 drives, but I'd rather just buy a cheap TK70 >off eBay than risk destroying my DLT4000. That's the difference, however, as far as I know, it's not a firmware issue, it's a calibration issue. I'm not worried about reading TK70's really, but it would be nice to be able to read TK50's, still I've a TZ30 for that. >The AS200 4/233 was my first Alpha (my wife bought it for me >to replace my VS3100, which I still have). I followed that >with a couple of PC164 motherboards, then a PC164SX (which >can't run VMS, so I used it for Digital Unix until I sold >it), followed by a PC164LX, followed by three PWS500au systems >(one of which has a ruined case but was bought as it had a >2MB cache module). I have someone digging up a replacement >case, and I'm on the lookout for two more 2MB (or 4MB if >I get lucky) cache modules. The PWS500au systems displaced >the PC164 and PC164LX systems for VMS, so the PC164LX is >my Tru64 system now. I also have a VS4000-60 running. The >two VS3100 systems are kept around just-in-case, and I have >a MVII which I'm mentioned is in line for a PDP-11 transplant >as soon as I find a CPU and memory. Sounds like as bad of a menagerie as I've got around here, though instead of the PC164 stuff I've got a DEC3000/300LX and the AlphaStation 500/333. I just unlobotomized and increased the PDP-11/73 I've got in a MVII BA123 Chassis, I got a quad-hieght /73 board for it in place of the dual-hieght /73 I'd been using and some other stuff. It's *SO* nice finally running with a full blown board, and having the console at 38,400 instead of 9600! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |