From nabil at SpiritOne.com Fri Sep 1 04:28:28 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: free for postage: SONY GDM-1601/1602 service manual In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000831204047.00990940@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: Email replies only. -- Aaron Nabil From jate at uwasa.fi Fri Sep 1 06:50:24 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? Message-ID: <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Hello all. In my ongoing search for all things HP 9000 Series 500 I accidentally stumbled into HP Journal. HP has a database on the web with just the article names: http://www.hp.com/hpj/journal.html But there seems to be a bug of sorts (I think I ought to report it to HP). Try searching for HP 9000 Series 500, and you'll get one article: Mar-1984, HP-UX: Implementation of UNIX on the HP 9000 Series 500 Computer System by, Now try to browse Mar-1984: A Local Area Network for the HP 9000 Series 500 Computers Does anybody have the magazine (and be willing to sell it :) or if somebody has it could they give a list of the articles and some info on is it worth ordering as a reprint. Any other 9000/550 trivia gratiously accepted as it's quite difficult to find information about them. -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From richard at idcomm.com Fri Sep 1 08:42:42 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <3.0.5.32.20000831204047.00990940@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <001b01c0141a$81f387e0$0500c0a8@winbook> It's too bad there's so little functional provision for backups under the currently popular OS'. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Lane To: Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 9:40 PM Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved > Sometimes, the best answers are the most obvious. > > You may remember that, not long ago, I posted a blurb about having trouble > backing up an old MFM drive in a 1990-vintage datascope. Specifically, that > it's non-DOS format and on a proprietary controller. > > As I was copying the manuals for a different datascope this afternoon, the > answer hit me like a lightning bolt, prompted by noticing that the pages I > was copying at the time had to do with backing up the hard drive in a > Digilog unit. "Maybe" I mused "the Interview 7500 has the same capability." > > Well, guess what? It did! It was not obvious because it was labeled "Copy > Disk" instead of "Backup hard drive," but it most definitely allowed > selecting the hard drive as the source and the floppy as the destination. > > Three 1.44 meg floppies later, I not only had a backup copy of the > datascope's OS, but I also had it archived with Teledisk into long-term > storage. > > The moral of the story is: If you run into a hard-drive operated > datascope, or any other special device that has its own drive, never assume > that said device has no backup routine of its very own! ;-) > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our > own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Sep 1 09:48:07 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Jarkko, I have a big collection of HP Journals but I don't have that issue. However you used to be able to order reprints from HP. They should tell how on their HP Journal website. >Any other 9000/550 trivia gratiously accepted as it's quite >difficult to find information about them. > I talked to one the HP 9825 developers. He told me that the HP 9845 were supposed to be replaced by the 9000/5xx machines but that HP had a lot of trouble with them and didn't built very many of them. I'm still looking for a 9845C. Joe At 02:50 PM 9/1/00 +0300, you wrote: >Hello all. > >In my ongoing search for all things HP 9000 Series 500 I accidentally >stumbled into HP Journal. HP has a database on the web with just >the article names: > >http://www.hp.com/hpj/journal.html > >But there seems to be a bug of sorts (I think I ought to report >it to HP). Try searching for HP 9000 Series 500, and you'll get one >article: > >Mar-1984, HP-UX: Implementation of UNIX on the HP 9000 Series 500 >Computer System by, > >Now try to browse Mar-1984: >A Local Area Network for the HP 9000 Series 500 Computers > >Does anybody have the magazine (and be willing to sell it :) or if >somebody has it could they give a list of the articles and >some info on is it worth ordering as a reprint. > >Any other 9000/550 trivia gratiously accepted as it's quite >difficult to find information about them. > >-- >Jarkko Teppo >jate@uwasa.fi > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Sep 1 09:33:53 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: free for postage: SONY GDM-1601/1602 service manual In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20000831204047.00990940@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000901073353.009a2630@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 02:28 01-09-2000 -0700, you wrote: >Email replies only. Oooh! Oooh! If no one else has claimed it, I will! Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Sep 1 09:37:02 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved In-Reply-To: <001b01c0141a$81f387e0$0500c0a8@winbook> References: <3.0.5.32.20000831204047.00990940@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000901073702.00986c60@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 07:42 01-09-2000 -0600, you wrote: >It's too bad there's so little functional provision for backups under the >currently popular OS'. No argument there. Besides the obvious *nix OS's, Windbloze NT is the only OS I know of that has a built-in backup program. I have no clue what OS is being used for the datascope. I will say that, according to its startup screen, it has four processors, all in the 68xx series, and that the entire package takes up only three 1.44 meg floppies. I wish Atlantic Research had kept their Teleproducts division. They turned out some of the nicest stuff... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Sep 1 10:21:49 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel (O.T.) White Castle Belly Bombers Message-ID: Regarding White Castle Burgers While living in St. Louis in the late 70's there was an article about the origin of the White Castle burger. Square burgers with holes to allow them to cook rapidly, normally cooked with onions. Easily consumed by the dozen since they were about 3" squares. Originally only available in St. Louis, there were a bunch of White Castle fans/fanatics in Arizona who would order a refrigerated tractor trailer full every year and would have a huge bash to consume them. Now they are more widely available. Best with massive quantities of beer after the bars close. Rumored also to stop any chemically induced munchies. Any printout that was generated while you were eating them smelled of onions and grease. Mike Burger biter From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 1 12:54:51 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations In-Reply-To: <39AEA24A.EC9D6FA7@ecubics.com> References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >What is the " best" programmer, one can buy this days ? > >I like to program the old (2716, ...) and the new stuff. >(EPROM/PALs/FLASH/...) Any that work and you can find all the adapters and manuals for. The one I miss the most was the one I used to have builtinto a Apple II. One of the engineers where I worked drew up a simple design using a couple 8 bit dacs with opamps to 10x the voltage for the pins that needed it, and the rest I think was 6522 io lines. I wrote the software and stole the scream out of CastleWolfenstein and played it when you pressed the "burn" button. I patched the assembler and kind of integrated them together so that with just a few keystrokes you could do an assembly and burn to eprom, including printing a nice label. Right now I have a Data I/O something, model 2902?, but haven't played with it yet. I have a couple of the modules, but no manuals. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 1 12:26:04 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Aug 30, 0 08:58:05 pm Message-ID: >> I'm thinking I want a WES50 Weller Soldering Station, as it looks like a >> good balance between cheapness and high-end. Of course anything would be a > >While I can't comment on that particular model, I'd certainly go for a >Weller. I'm still using one of their Magnastat TCP irons, and it's never >given me any problems. > >The other thing I've found about Weller is that they sell spare parts I am really fortunate here in SoCal, several very serious dealers of weller etc. are at the local hamfests. One very nice guy, I think his last name is Fue, started buying and selling soldering stuff after he retired, and now he is one of the major sellers on the west coast. One of the best things about the TCP is that it can solder small or fairly large items with ease. Smaller or non controlled irons tend to poop out on any bigger jobs. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 1 14:10:25 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <200008312136.OAA15976@shell1.aracnet.com> References: from "Mike Ford" at Aug 31, 2000 01:12:34 AM Message-ID: >> >> I can't think of any good reason to buy a new soldering iron, my ancient >> Weller is still going strong after many many years of heavy use. >> > >Well, when the one it will be replacing is a 20 year old bottom of the line >Radio Shack piece of junk.... What I've got is good enough for electrical >wiring and such, but it really doesn't cut it for electronics :^) No, what I mean is go to a hamfest and buy a nice old Weller for $10. From marvin at rain.org Fri Sep 1 15:39:10 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Aug 30, 0 08:58:05 pm Message-ID: <39B013EE.78B4FF6D@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > >The other thing I've found about Weller is that they sell spare parts > > I am really fortunate here in SoCal, several very serious dealers of weller > etc. are at the local hamfests. One very nice guy, I think his last name is > Fue, started buying and selling soldering stuff after he retired, and now > he is one of the major sellers on the west coast. I've known Harold Fue for about 30 years or so as he came to Santa Barbara at the same time as we did. Among other things, he is also a ham. Sure makes it nice to have his stock of parts here! From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Sep 1 15:43:19 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations Message-ID: <20000901204319.19815.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > No, what I mean is go to a hamfest and buy a nice old Weller for $10. I need to go to Hamfests with you more often. Out here, in the wilds of Ohio, I've never seen a working Weller for under $40. I was glad to get my two up to snuff for less than $30 each. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From richard at idcomm.com Fri Sep 1 15:42:13 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations References: from "Mike Ford" at Aug31, 2000 01:12:34 AM Message-ID: <001101c01455$1ccc4a60$0500c0a8@winbook> I've had a weller station for about 15 years, and for the last 15 it's been unused because it quit on me at a critical time. I replaced it with a sami-fancy solder/desoldering station with a pump and everything built in, but it used a glass tube in part of the solder-sucker, and one little slip was all it took to break that, so it's been shelved for 5-6 years as well. In the meantime, I've used a cheapo form Radio Shack, which I leave plugged in all the time and simple buy a pair of screw-on tips whenever they get a mite worn. The Weller, new, cost about $75, and the fancy solder/desolder station cost about $400, while the R/S iron cost about $5 and the tips still only cost about $3 for a pair. I've replaced the heating element once, for $4. The iron, meanwhile has gone up to about $10. This one is small enough that it doesn't burn the boards, but hot enough to melt solder on the heavy ground and power planes used today. For portable use, I've got one of those butane-fired numbers from Weller. It cost about $50 and I doubt I'll ever get enough use out of it to warrant the cost. It does have a torch and a hot air nozzle, though, and those have come in handy a time or two. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ford To: Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations > >> > >> I can't think of any good reason to buy a new soldering iron, my ancient > >> Weller is still going strong after many many years of heavy use. > >> > > > >Well, when the one it will be replacing is a 20 year old bottom of the line > >Radio Shack piece of junk.... What I've got is good enough for electrical > >wiring and such, but it really doesn't cut it for electronics :^) > > No, what I mean is go to a hamfest and buy a nice old Weller for $10. > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 1 17:14:58 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <007f01c01462$437908d0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 10:03 AM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved >It's too bad there's so little functional provision for backups under the >currently popular OS'. > >Dick ???! Last I checked all of MSPOOGE dos/win3x/win9x/nt has a backup, as do linux and freebsd. Which ones are you referring too? Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 1 17:12:41 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <001101c01455$1ccc4a60$0500c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Sep 1, 0 02:42:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000901/1b794158/attachment.ksh From pat at transarc.ibm.com Fri Sep 1 18:05:10 2000 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? Message-ID: Check this out ... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=426080142 --Pat. From richard at idcomm.com Fri Sep 1 18:27:49 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <007f01c01462$437908d0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <004b01c0146c$3f06af00$0500c0a8@winbook> Yes, they have them, but unfortunately, few work and even those only work under special circumstances. If you've tried to use a decent sized SCSI device (>100GB) such as a multi-tape 8mm library, you'll quickly see that none of the major software packages work. They do fine with the little bitty <=8Gb (floppy tape) thingies, but won't work with a serious user's device. Novaback, Cheyenne, various versions of Arcada/now-Seagate-Backup or Backup exec, and a few others as well, work OK on small devices but I've yet to see one of them even work with a single 8mm tape (10-15 GB capacity), let alone a serious backup device. One of them freezes up in all but two of the systems at the local Post Office BMC, (180 systems) another backs up OK but refuses to read its own writing so it can't restore. Another has nice GUI stuff, but won't read or write a tape. Another can't tell it just finished reformatting a tape that it insisted on formatting because it was unrecognizable. The old DOS-based stuff was MUCH better. I still use the stuff when I can. Unfortunately, it requires one run LFNBACK and then the drive is useless until it's undone, so backgrounding the backups is not possible. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp166 To: Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 4:14 PM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 10:03 AM > Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > > > >It's too bad there's so little functional provision for backups under > the > >currently popular OS'. > > > >Dick > > > ???! Last I checked all of MSPOOGE dos/win3x/win9x/nt has a > backup, as do linux and freebsd. Which ones are you referring too? > > Allison > > > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 1 18:59:53 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? Message-ID: <00aa01c01470$bbf28620$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> if your going to post this at least a brief descrption for those of us that really dont care to navagate ebay. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Pat Barron To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 7:28 PM Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? >Check this out ... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=426080142 > >--Pat. > > > From ss at allegro.com Fri Sep 1 19:06:43 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39AFE223.26243.18A4A8F@localhost> Re: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=426080142 Well, if you got that Cray, you could park it next to your IBM Series 1: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=424735932 Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 1 19:17:35 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <00aa01c01470$bbf28620$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Sep 01, 2000 07:59:53 PM Message-ID: <200009020017.RAA00705@shell1.aracnet.com> > if your going to post this at least a brief descrption for those of us > that > really dont care to navagate ebay. > > Allison Agreed! However, it's a Cray Y-MP C90 and they want a starting bid of only $35,000.00 on it. Oddly enough, no one has bid yet. Though that is undoubtably because it's only been up for about three hours. Zane From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Fri Sep 1 19:11:22 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] Message-ID: <87zolrwt3p.fsf@yodacity.local> I was wondering whether anyone here could help me on this one: I have a battery pack of a mobile phone I'd like to replace for a set of AA Ni-Cad batteries (reason: cheaper!). The mobile phone even has the necessary mechanical/electrical pieces necessary for the mobile to work with 4 AA batteries. The question is a couple of extra small terminals the pack provides. I dismantled the pack and I found out that one of them was connected to the pack (-) terminal, and the other one was connected to a weird component, which is connected to the (-) terminal. My question is: *what* weird component is that? Some clues: It looks like a common 1N4148 diode: glass capsule, two small copper-color cylinders, and something really small in between. However, it is not a (common) diode! However, I suspected it were a zenner pair (in series, symmetric polarity), and therefore I tryed to measure the zenner voltage by connecting the component in series with a 1K resistor, to a variable voltage power supply. In fact, varying the voltage does not affect the voltage drop across the component, remaining at 9.1V. At this time I was pretty sure it was a zenner pair, maybe for protection or something like that. However, the mobile does not charge the batteries (and does not recognize their presence) if this component is removed! The mobile charger has about 7V (open circuit), so I was expecting the supposedly zenner pair to be "open". What I did was to measure the extra pin voltage: without the component it measures about 2.5V, *with* the component it drops to about 1.2V. So the component cannot be a zenner pair. And this was the time I had the idea to post this message... Thanks for any help/clues/(flames?) given! Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From richard at idcomm.com Fri Sep 1 19:38:22 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] References: <87zolrwt3p.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: <001401c01476$19a1bb60$0500c0a8@winbook> Not just semi-OT, Rodrigo! Have you considered the possibility that the wierd component might be a FUSE? Proceed with caution. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodrigo Ventura To: Cc: Tony Duell Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 6:11 PM Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] > > I was wondering whether anyone here could help me on this one: > I have a battery pack of a mobile phone I'd like to replace for a set > of AA Ni-Cad batteries (reason: cheaper!). The mobile phone even has > the necessary mechanical/electrical pieces necessary for the mobile to > work with 4 AA batteries. The question is a couple of extra small > terminals the pack provides. I dismantled the pack and I found out > that one of them was connected to the pack (-) terminal, and the other > one was connected to a weird component, which is connected to the (-) > terminal. My question is: *what* weird component is that? > > Some clues: It looks like a common 1N4148 diode: glass > capsule, two small copper-color cylinders, and something really small > in between. However, it is not a (common) diode! However, I suspected > it were a zenner pair (in series, symmetric polarity), and therefore I > tryed to measure the zenner voltage by connecting the component in > series with a 1K resistor, to a variable voltage power supply. In > fact, varying the voltage does not affect the voltage drop across the > component, remaining at 9.1V. At this time I was pretty sure it was a > zenner pair, maybe for protection or something like that. > > However, the mobile does not charge the batteries (and does > not recognize their presence) if this component is removed! The mobile > charger has about 7V (open circuit), so I was expecting the supposedly > zenner pair to be "open". What I did was to measure the extra pin > voltage: without the component it measures about 2.5V, *with* the > component it drops to about 1.2V. So the component cannot be a zenner > pair. And this was the time I had the idea to post this message... > > Thanks for any help/clues/(flames?) given! > > Cheers, > > > -- > > *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura > *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda > *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: > *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa > *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL > *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 > > From elvey at hal.com Fri Sep 1 19:52:00 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] In-Reply-To: <001401c01476$19a1bb60$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <200009020052.RAA07062@civic.hal.com> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > Not just semi-OT, Rodrigo! > > Have you considered the possibility that the wierd component might be a > FUSE? > > Proceed with caution. > > Dick Hi I'd think it is more likely some kind of temperature sensor. I've seen these used in a number of battery packs to indicate when full charge is done. This doesn't explain the reading but then it is unclear how he is doing them. Dwight From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Sep 1 19:57:11 2000 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <200009020017.RAA00705@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > However, it's a Cray Y-MP C90 and they want a starting bid of only > $35,000.00 on it. Oddly enough, no one has bid yet. Though that is > undoubtably because it's only been up for about three hours. It, like most other supercomputers that appear on Ebay, probably will not get any bids, as I think most buyers are quick to realize the mess such a sale can make. $35,000 is an awful big bunch of money. The C90s are big machines - look at the picture and you will see that the thing is rather huge (something like nine feet in diameter). Crays are also incredibly heavy, C90s being no different, so they can not be easily placed in a home or business (unless gutted, and we don't want to see that). It is a shame that PSC seems to be in a hurry about getting rid of the machine. RCS/RI would take it in (hmmm...maybe I will send them a letter), but there is no way we can have the thing ready to move out of there within two weeks. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ss at allegro.com Fri Sep 1 20:01:27 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <200009020017.RAA00705@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <00aa01c01470$bbf28620$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39AFEEF7.19669.1BC65B1@localhost> Re: > > if your going to post this at least a brief descrption for those of us > > that > > really dont care to navagate ebay. Oops...sorry. My reply post was an IBM Series 1 (which might be old enough to qualify as a "classic computer"). Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From vaxman at uswest.net Fri Sep 1 20:26:29 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, there was a previous discussion here about removal of a Cray computer. The gist was it is quite expensive (~50K) to drain the coolant, deinstall the system, move it, set it up, and replace the coolant. Anyone else remember this? I could sell a bit of stock and cover the opening bid, but I don't know what it would cost to move it. clint PS Can I plug this into my toaster outlet? :^ On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, William Donzelli wrote: > > However, it's a Cray Y-MP C90 and they want a starting bid of only > > $35,000.00 on it. Oddly enough, no one has bid yet. Though that is > > undoubtably because it's only been up for about three hours. > > It, like most other supercomputers that appear on Ebay, probably will not > get any bids, as I think most buyers are quick to realize the mess such a > sale can make. $35,000 is an awful big bunch of money. > > The C90s are big machines - look at the picture and you will see that the > thing is rather huge (something like nine feet in diameter). Crays are > also incredibly heavy, C90s being no different, so they can not be easily > placed in a home or business (unless gutted, and we don't want to see that). > > It is a shame that PSC seems to be in a hurry about getting rid of the > machine. RCS/RI would take it in (hmmm...maybe I will send them a > letter), but there is no way we can have the thing ready to move out of > there within two weeks. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Sep 1 20:54:51 2000 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > IIRC, there was a previous discussion here about removal of a Cray > computer. The gist was it is quite expensive (~50K) to drain the > coolant, deinstall the system, move it, set it up, and replace the > coolant. The idea is to get to pay for that! > Anyone else remember this? I could sell a bit of stock and cover > the opening bid, but I don't know what it would cost to move it. So, you want to buy this for RCS/RI ? Shipping could be as little as a couple thousand, if you rent a (big) truck. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 1 21:04:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] Message-ID: <00d401c01482$3cc632e0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> It's a self resetting fuse like device also there are ICs of the three or even two legged types to monitor battery temperature. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] >Not just semi-OT, Rodrigo! > >Have you considered the possibility that the wierd component might be a >FUSE? > >Proceed with caution. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Rodrigo Ventura >To: >Cc: Tony Duell >Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 6:11 PM >Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] > > >> >> I was wondering whether anyone here could help me on this one: >> I have a battery pack of a mobile phone I'd like to replace for a set >> of AA Ni-Cad batteries (reason: cheaper!). The mobile phone even has >> the necessary mechanical/electrical pieces necessary for the mobile to >> work with 4 AA batteries. The question is a couple of extra small >> terminals the pack provides. I dismantled the pack and I found out >> that one of them was connected to the pack (-) terminal, and the other >> one was connected to a weird component, which is connected to the (-) >> terminal. My question is: *what* weird component is that? >> >> Some clues: It looks like a common 1N4148 diode: glass >> capsule, two small copper-color cylinders, and something really small >> in between. However, it is not a (common) diode! However, I suspected >> it were a zenner pair (in series, symmetric polarity), and therefore I >> tryed to measure the zenner voltage by connecting the component in >> series with a 1K resistor, to a variable voltage power supply. In >> fact, varying the voltage does not affect the voltage drop across the >> component, remaining at 9.1V. At this time I was pretty sure it was a >> zenner pair, maybe for protection or something like that. >> >> However, the mobile does not charge the batteries (and does >> not recognize their presence) if this component is removed! The mobile >> charger has about 7V (open circuit), so I was expecting the supposedly >> zenner pair to be "open". What I did was to measure the extra pin >> voltage: without the component it measures about 2.5V, *with* the >> component it drops to about 1.2V. So the component cannot be a zenner >> pair. And this was the time I had the idea to post this message... >> >> Thanks for any help/clues/(flames?) given! >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> -- >> >> *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura >> *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >> *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: >> *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >> *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >> *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 >> >> > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 1 21:02:20 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <00d301c01482$3c2bc7a0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> >Novaback, Cheyenne, various versions of Arcada/now-Seagate-Backup or Backup >exec, and a few others as well, work OK on small devices but I've yet to see >one of them even work with a single 8mm tape (10-15 GB capacity), let alone I'm using replica on a HP T20, tehats good enough for my needs. Then again I don't have 100gb of disk unless I total ALL the clients together. I think it's a case of storage out srtipping the 32bit cpus and storage that was only 25gb a year ago and now it's 75gb. I havent a clue how those guys with their terabyte fields of disks (a table full) do it. Allison From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 1 23:19:33 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <20000901204319.19815.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >--- Mike Ford wrote: >> No, what I mean is go to a hamfest and buy a nice old Weller for $10. > >I need to go to Hamfests with you more often. Out here, in the wilds of >Ohio, I've never seen a working Weller for under $40. I was glad to get >my two up to snuff for less than $30 each. Out here if you pay more than $20 it better be one of those fancy things with a knob or something. I've seen as many as 3 or 4 guys selling soldering stuff at some of the hamfests, we just have a LOT of the stuff around here. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 1 23:25:44 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <001101c01455$1ccc4a60$0500c0a8@winbook> References: from "Mike Ford" at Aug31, 2000 01:12:34 AM Message-ID: >I've had a weller station for about 15 years, and for the last 15 it's been >unused because it quit on me at a critical time. I replaced it with a >For portable use, I've got one of those butane-fired numbers from Weller. >It cost about $50 and I doubt I'll ever get enough use out of it to warrant Kinda funny, you couldn't pry my weller away from me, but I do have a couple spare $15 butane units from Rat Shack that get used when a cord isn't practical. From whdawson at mlynk.com Fri Sep 1 23:07:48 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <200009020017.RAA00705@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <001101c01493$5adaa340$f39e72d1@cobweb.net> -> > if your going to post this at least a brief description for -> those of us -> > that -> > really dont care to navigate ebay. -> > -> > Allison -> -> Agreed! -> -> However, it's a Cray Y-MP C90 and they want a starting bid of only -> $35,000.00 on it. Oddly enough, no one has bid yet. Though that is -> undoubtedly because it's only been up for about three hours. I think the best part of this post is the link in the listing, Big Iron in the Steel City. NSF Awards $45 Million to Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center for "Terascale" Computing An unprecedented system located in Pittsburgh will be the most powerful in the world available for public research. http://www.psc.edu/publicinfo/news/2000/terascale-08-03-00.html Compaq, 682 AlphaServers, Tru64 UNIX, NSF = 6 Teraflops anyone? From richard at idcomm.com Fri Sep 1 23:12:33 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <00d301c01482$3c2bc7a0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001901c01494$05f791c0$0500c0a8@winbook> Folks with big ISP's/search engines tend to have between 750 GB and 1.5 TB of storage, depending on their size. Numerous corporate enterprises around here are near the TB range right now. I heard on the radio about one new internet startup that brought up 775 GB of RAID their first day. It used to be that one could do backups on a home-based system. However, softare to handle the backups just doesn't seem to be there. It's not complicated, so one could, I suppose, roll-yer-own. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp166 To: Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 8:02 PM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > >Novaback, Cheyenne, various versions of Arcada/now-Seagate-Backup or > Backup > >exec, and a few others as well, work OK on small devices but I've yet to > see > >one of them even work with a single 8mm tape (10-15 GB capacity), let > alone > > > I'm using replica on a HP T20, tehats good enough for my needs. Then > again > I don't have 100gb of disk unless I total ALL the clients together. > > I think it's a case of storage out srtipping the 32bit cpus and storage > that was > only 25gb a year ago and now it's 75gb. I havent a clue how those guys > with their > terabyte fields of disks (a table full) do it. > > Allison > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Sep 2 05:41:13 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: (O.T.) White Castle Belly Bombers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello McFadden, On 01-Sep-00, you wrote: > Regarding White Castle Burgers > While living in St. Louis in the late 70's there was an article about the > origin of the White Castle burger. Square burgers with holes to allow them > to cook rapidly, normally cooked with onions. Easily consumed by the dozen > since they were about 3" squares. Originally only available in St. Louis, > there were a bunch of White Castle fans/fanatics in Arizona who would order > a refrigerated tractor trailer full every year and would have a huge bash to > consume them. Now they are more widely available. Best with massive > quantities of beer after the bars close. Rumored also to stop any > chemically induced munchies. Any printout that was generated while you were > eating them smelled of onions and grease. > > Mike > Burger biter According to what their PR department says, the first White Castle was in Wichita, KS. The first ones I saw were in Columbus OH. I wan't too impressed with the small size, but I do like them now. Three or 4 WC's equal one normal hamburger. BTW, note that the buns are no more than Parkerhouse rolls. Hence the size of the pattie. I like mine with cheese and horseradish mustard. I have yet to figure why the frozen varieties cost more than the fresh ones. > a computer geek/fast food conniseur/trivia repository -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Sep 2 05:46:54 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] In-Reply-To: <87zolrwt3p.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: Hello Rodrigo On 01-Sep-00, you wrote: > > I was wondering whether anyone here could help me on this one: > I have a battery pack of a mobile phone I'd like to replace for a set > of AA Ni-Cad batteries (reason: cheaper!). The mobile phone even has > the necessary mechanical/electrical pieces necessary for the mobile to > work with 4 AA batteries. The question is a couple of extra small > terminals the pack provides. I dismantled the pack and I found out > that one of them was connected to the pack (-) terminal, and the other > one was connected to a weird component, which is connected to the (-) > terminal. My question is: *what* weird component is that? Probably a fuse, or a thermal cutout/thermal fuse. > > Some clues: It looks like a common 1N4148 diode: glass > capsule, two small copper-color cylinders, and something really small > in between. However, it is not a (common) diode! However, I suspected > it were a zenner pair (in series, symmetric polarity), and therefore I > tryed to measure the zenner voltage by connecting the component in > series with a 1K resistor, to a variable voltage power supply. In > fact, varying the voltage does not affect the voltage drop across the > component, remaining at 9.1V. At this time I was pretty sure it was a > zenner pair, maybe for protection or something like that. > > However, the mobile does not charge the batteries (and does > not recognize their presence) if this component is removed! The mobile > charger has about 7V (open circuit), so I was expecting the supposedly > zenner pair to be "open". What I did was to measure the extra pin > voltage: without the component it measures about 2.5V, *with* the > component it drops to about 1.2V. So the component cannot be a zenner > pair. And this was the time I had the idea to post this message... > > Thanks for any help/clues/(flames?) given! > > Cheers, > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Sep 2 00:16:22 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Want a nice supercomputer ... ? In-Reply-To: <001101c01493$5adaa340$f39e72d1@cobweb.net> from "Bill Dawson" at Sep 02, 2000 12:07:48 AM Message-ID: <200009020516.WAA27685@shell1.aracnet.com> > Compaq, 682 AlphaServers, Tru64 UNIX, NSF = 6 Teraflops anyone? No thanks, I'll just take 5 running OpenVMS, and one running OpenBSD that should take care of my needs :^) Zane From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Sep 2 00:18:47 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: FREE: 2 TI Silent 700 terminals (Austin, TX) Message-ID: <20000902001847.J19404@mrbill.net> I've got two TI Silent 700 terminals with cover / carry cases (one model 765 with the bubble RAM expansion, one standard 745) free here in Austin, TX. I'm getting my ham radio license soon, so some of this stuff has to go to make room for a table full of equipment... If anyone is interested, let me know. I *might* be persuaded to ship these if I cant find local takers. Pictures of the 765 @ http://www.decvax.org/ti Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Sep 2 10:25:34 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] In-Reply-To: <87zolrwt3p.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000902102534.460f34ec@mailhost.intellistar.net> Your weird device is probably a thermal switch. A lot of battery packs have high rate chargers so that they can quickly recharge the bvattery and then they use the switch to disconnect the charger in order to keep from over-heating/over-charging the battery. I had trouble folowing your explaination but you'll probably find that the pack has at least three contacts and the "device" if in series with one of them. That will be the charging contact. One other contacts will supply power to the phone (so that it isn't disconnected when the switch opens) and the other will be a common battery return. The return is usually the negative side of the battey but not always. I can't make any suggestions about replacing the Ni-MH batteries with Ni-Cads. A lot of people have asked me about doing the opposite and I've always recommended against it. I've read the manufacturer's literature and they point out that the Ni-MH batteries use a different charging technique than Ni-Cads and they need a different charger. Now having said that, I will tell you that several people have told me that they have substituted Ni-MH batteries for Ni-Cads and that everything worked fine. But I still wonder how well it will work in the long term. I have a number of Ni-Cads that have lasted over ten years (one set is nearly 30 years old!) and I wonder if the mis-used Ni-MH batteries will last anywhere close to that long. My 2 cents worth, Joe At 01:11 AM 9/2/00 +0100, you wrote: > > I was wondering whether anyone here could help me on this one: >I have a battery pack of a mobile phone I'd like to replace for a set >of AA Ni-Cad batteries (reason: cheaper!). The mobile phone even has >the necessary mechanical/electrical pieces necessary for the mobile to >work with 4 AA batteries. The question is a couple of extra small >terminals the pack provides. I dismantled the pack and I found out >that one of them was connected to the pack (-) terminal, and the other >one was connected to a weird component, which is connected to the (-) >terminal. My question is: *what* weird component is that? > > Some clues: It looks like a common 1N4148 diode: glass >capsule, two small copper-color cylinders, and something really small >in between. However, it is not a (common) diode! However, I suspected >it were a zenner pair (in series, symmetric polarity), and therefore I >tryed to measure the zenner voltage by connecting the component in >series with a 1K resistor, to a variable voltage power supply. In >fact, varying the voltage does not affect the voltage drop across the >component, remaining at 9.1V. At this time I was pretty sure it was a >zenner pair, maybe for protection or something like that. > > However, the mobile does not charge the batteries (and does >not recognize their presence) if this component is removed! The mobile >charger has about 7V (open circuit), so I was expecting the supposedly >zenner pair to be "open". What I did was to measure the extra pin >voltage: without the component it measures about 2.5V, *with* the >component it drops to about 1.2V. So the component cannot be a zenner >pair. And this was the time I had the idea to post this message... > > Thanks for any help/clues/(flames?) given! > > Cheers, > > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 09:54:57 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <011701c014ee$3906e8e0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:33 AM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved >Folks with big ISP's/search engines tend to have between 750 GB and 1.5 TB >of storage, depending on their size. Numerous corporate enterprises around >here are near the TB range right now. I heard on the radio about one new >internet startup that brought up 775 GB of RAID their first day. May be so. I manage 40 clients and 4 servers every day and its not an issue. I could care less about the problem of dealing with more than 10-20gb. Most people I know of want a good solid very reliable 5-20gb system that really does make a restorable backup. In that range there are a lot of products, loads of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability to IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm used to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. Allsion From emu at ecubics.com Sat Sep 2 11:12:29 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <011701c014ee$3906e8e0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39B126ED.C91415B6@ecubics.com> ajp166 wrote: > [ ... ] of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability > to > IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm > used > to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. I think, the adaptec software can do it for you. And any **ix system with dd ;-) cheers, emanuel From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 13:17:05 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <013301c0150b$e302a9c0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> In this the obvious is the words... painfully aware. I have the Adaptec, you get it with their SCSI cards. Not the same as backup though as its controller specific, or it seems to. Tried it once to go from SCSI to IDE and it barfed. Plextor has a tool for this that comes with their CDrw. Obvious limit is you have to have CDW to create and CDr to read and the ~650mb limit of cdroms. Also used is good old 6120 tape (IOMEGA), ok, but so so reliability. There is the OnStream tapes and their tools, not bad but W9x and NT4/sp4 are it's minimia, 30gb! Best for low end SOHO, it works well in both the parallel port and scsi version. The *nix dd tool is a universal screwwrenchdriverhammer! ;) There is DriveImage but the one time I needed it to work it made an impressive mess of the partition table. It seems to want the target partitions to be exactly like the source partition and formatting . Xcopy(32) does the job ok for any disk/directory at the file level but cannot do the disk low level stuff needed to replicate a configured system. DOS backup/restore aka hackup and destroy... need i say more. Later DOS MSBACKUP was far better and incompatable format with win9x backup both of which are unintelligible to NT backup. Why VMS backup is better. I can take an image copy of any disk so long as its smaller than the target volume and replicate all of the structures and files. For example a copy of VMS5.4-3 on RD54 (MFM 160mb) to a CMD interfaced RZ56 (680mb scsi). and have a fully useful bootable disk that was not truncated. Or I can do that through an intermediate set of TK50 tapes. This was handy as I needed to install VMS once and I could copy it to N-many systems exactly as created. Maybe this works as there are a common set of standards. This is clearly lacking in the PC realm(non *nix based). Allison From: emanuel stiebler >I think, the adaptec software can do it for you. And any **ix system >with dd ;-) From emu at ecubics.com Sat Sep 2 13:53:28 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <013301c0150b$e302a9c0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39B14CA8.4E8565F1@ecubics.com> ajp166 wrote: > > The *nix dd tool is a universal screwwrenchdriverhammer! ;) Yup ;-) I had once for a while a system with three drives. One Nt to work on, the second was the backup disk, and on the third, there was a **ix to do the backup via dd. Worked nice until I noticed, that it is much simpler to put all my data on a **ix system, and have only the NT OS(?) on the drive. Everything else is on the FileSever. Takes me now only few hours, to get a working system on a fresh hardrive again. > Why VMS backup is better. I can take an image copy of any disk > so long as its smaller than the target volume and replicate all of > the structures and files. For example a copy of VMS5.4-3 on RD54 > (MFM 160mb) to a CMD interfaced RZ56 (680mb scsi). and have > a fully useful bootable disk that was not truncated. Or I can do > that through an intermediate set of TK50 tapes. This was handy > as I needed to install VMS once and I could copy it to N-many > systems exactly as created. Maybe this works as there are a > common set of standards. This is clearly lacking in the PC > realm(non *nix based). There is probably a difference between a serious OS, and this random collection of bits, coming from redmond. ;-) But no intention to start a flame war ... cheers From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Sep 2 14:05:36 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:18 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved In-Reply-To: <011701c014ee$3906e8e0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Sep 2, 0 10:54:57 am" Message-ID: <200009021905.MAA15130@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > loads of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability > to > IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm > used > to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. Around Point Loma they use a Symantec utility called GHOST to do this. I ghosted two NT workstations this way to make a template backup. One small detail, though, is that you have to fix security IDs when you're done, but the GHoSTWALK utility makes this easy to do. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. -- James Carpenter --------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 2 13:17:39 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] In-Reply-To: <87zolrwt3p.fsf@yodacity.local> from "Rodrigo Ventura" at Sep 2, 0 01:11:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1996 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000902/dbe4c78b/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 14:34:53 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <015e01c01514$e05bdda0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> >Around Point Loma they use a Symantec utility called GHOST to do this. I >ghosted two NT workstations this way to make a template backup. One small >detail, though, is that you have to fix security IDs when you're done, but >the GHoSTWALK utility makes this easy to do. Might be worth having in my tool kit. Allison From marvin at rain.org Sat Sep 2 15:47:42 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <011701c014ee$3906e8e0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39B1676E.74086CD0@rain.org> ajp166 wrote: > > loads of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability > to IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm > used to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. > > Allsion I've used a product called Ghost that will 1) make and save disk images, 2) allow those images to be written to a disk with different partition sizes, etc. than the original, and 3) be used over a network. The only downside I've seen (unless they have changed their policy in the last year or so) is that it is sold on a 100 user license that cost about $750 or so. I managed to buy a 50 user license at half the cost after I explained that we were doing a one shot transfer to set up some machines. A good product! From marvin at rain.org Sat Sep 2 15:50:18 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <200009021905.MAA15130@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <39B1680A.17E9EE87@rain.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > loads of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability > > to > > IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm > > used > > to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. > > Around Point Loma they use a Symantec utility called GHOST to do this. I > ghosted two NT workstations this way to make a template backup. One small > detail, though, is that you have to fix security IDs when you're done, but > the GHoSTWALK utility makes this easy to do. I think they include a utility called SID? to do that. Also, my understanding is that the SID is assigned automatically when the machine is first connected to the network. I ghosted the drives from a newly installed system that had not been connected to the network and things seemed to work out just fine. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Sep 2 16:10:15 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations References: from "Mike Ford" atAug31, 2000 01:12:34 AM Message-ID: <00a901c01522$313c9860$73a0b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > >I've had a weller station for about 15 years, and for the last 15 it's been > >unused because it quit on me at a critical time. I replaced it with a > > >For portable use, I've got one of those butane-fired numbers from Weller. > >It cost about $50 and I doubt I'll ever get enough use out of it to warrant > > Kinda funny, you couldn't pry my weller away from me, but I do have a > couple spare $15 butane units from Rat Shack that get used when a cord > isn't practical. > I use a Hakko 940 temperature controlled station for delicate work, a 40W gun type for heavy duty work and a 25W RS rod for minor stuff (including melting plastic, etc.), meaning I ususally use the RS model. From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Sep 2 16:22:27 2000 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Free DEC DMB32 Dist Panels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Free for the price of shipping or out they go: Two H3033 DMB32 Distribution Panels each with eight serial ports, printer port, and sync port and associated (17-00740-02 CABLE ASSY, 30 COND) grey cables. I might have the DMB-32 BI or XMI cards as well, although I doubt I have the card the grey cables insert into on the non-H3033 side. Perfect if you have a VAX 6000 with DMB32 functionality but no panel. Paul From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Sat Sep 2 10:49:46 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] In-Reply-To: "ajp166"'s message of "Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:04:08 -0400" Message-ID: <873dji3iat.fsf@yodacity.local> Thanks for the replies! It cannnot obviously be a plain fuse, since it is not short-circuited (assuming it's still ok). I guess the most plausible idea is that it is just some kind of thermal-dependant component. Maybe a NTC or PTC. Still, how could I replace this component? I should characterize it electrically. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 16:33:50 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <003801c01525$81cfdaf0$c5099a8d@ajp166> >I've used a product called Ghost that will 1) make and save disk images, 2) >allow those images to be written to a disk with different partition sizes, >etc. than the original, and 3) be used over a network. The only downside >I've seen (unless they have changed their policy in the last year or so) is >that it is sold on a 100 user license that cost about $750 or so. I managed >to buy a 50 user license at half the cost after I explained that we were >doing a one shot transfer to set up some machines. A good product! After buying an ODBS driver from merant at $4000 for a single server CPU (for paradox mind you) well this is not a a big problem. Actually it would be a single cpu thing as I want to backup the machine so if it failed I could clone it to the matching one of the pair in minimal time. On a different level some PC software is really wacked pricewise. Anyone reading this could suggest a good low cost POP3/SMTP package for NT4 server with 40 users (not internet), contact me off list. IT doesn't have to forward mail to the internet as we dont have such a connection...yet. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 17:43:42 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] Message-ID: <004301c0152f$4049f9d0$c5099a8d@ajp166> You can bet it's a dallas or one of the other two wire digital components and not a simple thermister. Having opened more than a few packs I can say it's not going to be something that simple or easy to get data on. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Ni-MH pack topology [semi-OT, I know, sorry...] > > Thanks for the replies! > > It cannnot obviously be a plain fuse, since it is not >short-circuited (assuming it's still ok). > > I guess the most plausible idea is that it is just some kind >of thermal-dependant component. Maybe a NTC or PTC. Still, how could I >replace this component? I should characterize it electrically. > > Cheers, > > > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 17:54:51 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations Message-ID: <004801c01530$cfe79c90$c5099a8d@ajp166> if I go through my collection.... 100/140W weller soldering gun at least two W60s my normal sword, those are the Curie effect temperature controlled. I may convert them to electronic using triac and PT-RTD to sense temp if the internal switch fails as they are hard to find. one or two ungar 42W unregulated with various tips (most very fine) and a few blocks of copper for desoldering multiple leads at once. 12v 25W portable pencil for those field jobs. Ungar desoldering tool, handle with heated top and squeeze bulb for vacuum or pressure. various torches or the propane and mapp gas types plus mapp/oxygen rig for brazing/welding . I'm considering getting a newer weller or ungar regulated iron as the W60 Curie tips are getting very hard to find. Allison From richard at idcomm.com Sat Sep 2 19:07:20 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <011701c014ee$3906e8e0$7b0b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001301c0153a$ee9e1d80$0500c0a8@winbook> please see embedded comments below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp166 To: Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 8:54 AM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:33 AM > Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > > > >Folks with big ISP's/search engines tend to have between 750 GB and 1.5 > TB > >of storage, depending on their size. Numerous corporate enterprises > around > >here are near the TB range right now. I heard on the radio about one > new > >internet startup that brought up 775 GB of RAID their first day. > > > May be so. I manage 40 clients and 4 servers every day and its not an > issue. > I could care less about the problem of dealing with more than 10-20gb. > Most > people I know of want a good solid very reliable 5-20gb system that > really > does make a restorable backup. In that range there are a lot of > products, > loads of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability > to > IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm > used > to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. > Yes, that would be a nice feature, but I'd be satisfied for starters with ANY Win9x-based utility that actually would provide a no-nonsense backup procedure, one that would recognize that it formatted the tape, one that would follow its own schedule and would recognize the same tape each time it was in the drive. I'd like it to start within 1 minute of when it's invoked when running on a 150 MHz machine, and that wouldn't ask me more than once if REALLY want to do what I just typed. I'd like it to go ahead and back up the files it can back up and skip the ones it can't, without human intervention, and NEVER create new files that subsequently require it be manually instructed, file by file, not to back up the files the program itself created in order to perform the backup, all of which are, of course. open. When I'm using a 20-tape library, I'd prefer it NOT ask for permission to use the next tape, and, having gotten that perimssion, I'd prefer it not ask again before overwriting the tape. I'd prefer it be able to read the backup it wrote yesterday, and I'd be happy if it could recognize the tape it just formatted. If you know of such a device that works with 4 or 8mm SCSI devices, 100 percent of the time, preferably unattended, and will actually utilize the bandwidth of the tape device (80MB/sec, in bursts, 90 MB/min, continuous/aggregate) please share the info with us. The NT stuff is the only OS-resident software I've encountered that actually works. The backup that comes with Win9x works with the picotapes that work on the floppy ports, but they can't handle an adult's device. What really PISSES ME OFF about all this software, again, with the exception of the NT stuff, is that it doesn't know about SCSI-1 devices, and doesn't work one bit better on high-speed large-capacity disk drives than on tapes. If there were even one program that really would work, producing unattended backups of the whole system over the LAN every day, assuming there's enough bandwidth on its 100Mb channel, I'd use it. I've bought a half dozen different vendors' offerings, and half of them don't even run, let alone perform backups. > > Allsion > > > From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Sep 2 20:03:43 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: New "Compaq" Supercomputer Message-ID: <200009030103.e8313LQ15860@grover.winsite.com> Go to Compaq's website and click on the link about the new contract they just got for a machine with 12,000 Alpha's in it!! Kinda ticks me off, though, that while DEC did all the development work on this architecture, came up with something unique and technologically superior, the company that gets the credit for the big win is the same one that has made it's fortune cloning crappy IBM boxes and can't even make a laptop that goes three months before it has to back to the service department AGAIN....... Sorry. I'm the netadmin in an office where corporate policy sticks me with Armada laptops that need to go back for some sort of board replacement all the time. I'm on a first-name basis with the guy from Airborne..... it's gotten to the point where I figured out how they assign case numbers, and I can have the first six digits already written down before they start talking.....I have at least one a week go back. And some have gone in three or four times this past year! Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 20:07:47 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <006301c01543$b0304740$c5099a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >ANY Win9x-based utility that actually would provide a no-nonsense backup >procedure, one that would recognize that it formatted the tape, one that >would follow its own schedule and would recognize the same tape each time it >was in the drive. I'd like it to start within 1 minute of when it's invoked >when running on a 150 MHz machine, and that wouldn't ask me more than once >if REALLY want to do what I just typed. I'd like it to go ahead and back up Replica isn't too bad along those lines. ran is for a year on a P133 (not mmx even!) off a AHA5142 on a HPt20 under NT3.51. The only thing it would not do is back up network drives. >open. When I'm using a 20-tape library, I'd prefer it NOT ask for >permission to use the next tape, and, having gotten that perimssion, I'd >prefer it not ask again before overwriting the tape. I'd prefer it be able >to read the backup it wrote yesterday, and I'd be happy if it could >recognize the tape it just formatted. I though of getting a Quantum DLT but the cost was high. The Replica software plays well with it though. It can be preset to overwrite if needed. >If you know of such a device that works with 4 or 8mm SCSI devices, 100 >percent of the time, preferably unattended, and will actually utilize the Replica worked fine with my TLZ04 (4mm DDS1). >bandwidth of the tape device (80MB/sec, in bursts, 90 MB/min, >continuous/aggregate) please share the info with us. The NT stuff is the I have nothing to push tape that hard. >only OS-resident software I've encountered that actually works. The backup >that comes with Win9x works with the picotapes that work on the floppy >ports, but they can't handle an adult's device. wrong tool. >What really PISSES ME OFF about all this software, again, with the exception >of the NT stuff, is that it doesn't know about SCSI-1 devices, and doesn't >work one bit better on high-speed large-capacity disk drives than on tapes. W9x drivers are poor at best and ok only for desktop. NT is the only thing I'd consider other thn *nix for something server class. >backups of the whole system over the LAN every day, assuming there's enough >bandwidth on its 100Mb channel, I'd use it. I've bought a half dozen >different vendors' offerings, and half of them don't even run, let alone >perform backups. I don't like lan backup as they suck up all the bandwidth and leave the 'net useless for their run time. A 100mb channel is only good for maybe 20mb/s and even then I'd only expect half that, thats SCSI-1 perfomance at best. I havent tried a lot of packages, done have a lot of $$$ to spread so anything free or supplied with hardware is always tried. Replica came with the HPt20 and worked with a lot of hardware I tried fairly well. However it's not the firebreathing stuff you use nor have I tried it at that level. For me a 3-5gb backup every night is easily handled with that and it runs during the night when our net is not in use. Allison From richard at idcomm.com Sat Sep 2 21:46:43 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <006301c01543$b0304740$c5099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <005701c01551$32eb7580$0500c0a8@winbook> Well, my server, just for my little operation here, has 8 GB of storage at the moment, and I easily can fit that on a 112 meter 8mm tape costing about $4. The EXB8505XL is capable of writing to tape at only 30 MB/min but can accept data at around 20 MB/sec in synchronous mode and buffering it until the buffer's full enough to warrant writing data to the tape. If data comes over the (100 Mbps) net at a rate slower than the tape, it has enough buffer memory to mask the start-stop time. However, there's quite a bit of overhead and the buffer isn't deep enough to buffer backup and resync operations followed by search for the appropriate record to start writing where it left off. I went from standard coax to fast ethernet (TP) just to make certain MY backups would happen over night. My server's TEENSY by comparison with some people's. The family-history-center at a friend's church has on the order of 200 GB of data expanded over the course of several days' time from CD. If they lose one of their drives, it's easier to restore from tape than to spend the time redoing the expansion. That's why backups are preferable. They got an EXABYTE tape library with two of Exabyte's fastest drives in it and a capacity of 48 (?) 14.5GB tapes. NT doesn't handle libraries well with its internal backup SW. It's probably because the driver used to integrate the backup device into the system isn't comprehensive enough. They don't have to run backups often, in fact, only after new material has been added to the system. Expanding a 100 CD set takes lots of time and it should be automatic from the tapes. I'm afraid to see what happens when they try it. please see additional comments below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp166 To: Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 7:07 PM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > From: Richard Erlacher > >ANY Win9x-based utility that actually would provide a no-nonsense backup > >procedure, one that would recognize that it formatted the tape, one that > >would follow its own schedule and would recognize the same tape each > time it > >was in the drive. I'd like it to start within 1 minute of when it's > invoked > >when running on a 150 MHz machine, and that wouldn't ask me more than > once > >if REALLY want to do what I just typed. I'd like it to go ahead and > back up > > > Replica isn't too bad along those lines. ran is for a year on a P133 > (not mmx even!) > off a AHA5142 on a HPt20 under NT3.51. The only thing it would not do is > back up > network drives. > > >open. When I'm using a 20-tape library, I'd prefer it NOT ask for > >permission to use the next tape, and, having gotten that perimssion, I'd > >prefer it not ask again before overwriting the tape. I'd prefer it be > able > >to read the backup it wrote yesterday, and I'd be happy if it could > >recognize the tape it just formatted. > > > I though of getting a Quantum DLT but the cost was high. The Replica > software plays well with it though. It can be preset to overwrite if > needed. > > >If you know of such a device that works with 4 or 8mm SCSI devices, 100 > >percent of the time, preferably unattended, and will actually utilize > the > > > Replica worked fine with my TLZ04 (4mm DDS1). > > >bandwidth of the tape device (80MB/sec, in bursts, 90 MB/min, > >continuous/aggregate) please share the info with us. The NT stuff is > the > > > I have nothing to push tape that hard. > This doesn't push the tapes at all. The 85-90 MB/min isn't that fast. The trick, however, is to keep the tape moving uniformly in one direction. Ethernet, on its best day with a tailwind and a lightly loaded LAN will top out (except in test situations) at about 10-12 Mbytes/minute. With highly structured tests, it can do much better, but for random traffic, with (mostly) only two stations loading the net, that's what I see very often. The tape has to wait for the transfer, so it's got to start the tape moving, find the append point, and go from there until the data runs out again. Each time, it takes longer to move the tape than to transfer the data, yet the data transfer is the rate-determining step. The computer's timing is screwed up if there's any effort to synchronize, the tape drive's efforts are wasted if the computer's behavior is constantly changing, and I haven't a clue what the software does with all this, except that three out of four attempts, no matter which Windows package is used, end in failure. I think it's a flow-control problem that is brought about by the limited imagination of the creators of the software. Sooner or later someone will bring it off. > > >only OS-resident software I've encountered that actually works. The > backup > >that comes with Win9x works with the picotapes that work on the floppy > >ports, but they can't handle an adult's device. > > wrong tool. > It may be the wrong tool, but it makes all the claims suggesting it should work. SInce the NT tool works so reasonably, I'm disappointed that the Windows tools all seem to fall flat. > > >What really PISSES ME OFF about all this software, again, with the > exception > >of the NT stuff, is that it doesn't know about SCSI-1 devices, and > doesn't > >work one bit better on high-speed large-capacity disk drives than on > tapes. > > > W9x drivers are poor at best and ok only for desktop. NT is the only > thing > I'd consider other thn *nix for something server class. > Up to the time the motherboard I was using croaked, I had an NT box running a mirror of my Netware server, with RAID-5 AND compression (more to increase performance than capacity) as well as the pretty faithful emulation of the Netware interface so I could talk to it from DOS and Win31x without having to load the inordinately large drivers that go with ethernet interface code other than what comes with Netware (and that's plenty big enough). The NT package looks to the DOS stations like a normal Netware server. Whereas I managed to get that part of the setup to work, I hadn't yet managed to get the "easy" part, the Win9x <=> NT interface to work. I figure I can phase out the old Netware if I can get this setup to come to life again. > > >backups of the whole system over the LAN every day, assuming there's > enough > >bandwidth on its 100Mb channel, I'd use it. I've bought a half dozen > >different vendors' offerings, and half of them don't even run, let alone > >perform backups. > > > I don't like lan backup as they suck up all the bandwidth and leave the > 'net useless for their run time. A 100mb channel is only good for maybe > 20mb/s > Statistical access LANs are like that. What's more, there's plenty of overhead. With the degenerate case, i.e. only two stations sending lots of data and the remainder mostly quiet, you can get appreciably more, though not as much as I'd like. I only have four stations operating these days, and often two are asleep. It's no trouble doing the backup, yet it takes most of the night. With standard ethernet, even under DOS when I could use the really GOOD software that worked EVERY TIME, I couldn't transfer and record the whole server every night, because it took more than the whole night to do it. With all the drives on the network, it takes more than 24 hours to do the daily "full" backup. Incrementals suck, so I don't use them. > > and even then I'd only expect half that, thats SCSI-1 perfomance at best. > > I havent tried a lot of packages, done have a lot of $$$ to spread so > anything > free or supplied with hardware is always tried. Replica came with the > HPt20 > and worked with a lot of hardware I tried fairly well. However it's not > the > firebreathing stuff you use nor have I tried it at that level. For me a > 3-5gb > backup every night is easily handled with that and it runs during the > night > when our net is not in use. > > Allison > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Sep 2 21:58:12 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved In-Reply-To: <39B1680A.17E9EE87@rain.org> from Marvin at "Sep 2, 0 01:50:18 pm" Message-ID: <200009030258.TAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > loads of hardware and most work fine. What I find lacking is the ability > > > to > > > IMAGE copy the disks(for NT4) replace the disk and write it back. I'm > > > used > > > to doing this with VMS to clone a disk and it's a life saver. > > > > Around Point Loma they use a Symantec utility called GHOST to do this. I > > ghosted two NT workstations this way to make a template backup. One small > > detail, though, is that you have to fix security IDs when you're done, but > > the GHoSTWALK utility makes this easy to do. > > I think they include a utility called SID? to do that. Also, my > understanding is that the SID is assigned automatically when the machine is > first connected to the network. I ghosted the drives from a newly installed > system that had not been connected to the network and things seemed to work > out just fine. No, the SID (as I recall from my guilty little store of NT data) is generated off hardware to prevent someone from simply putting the name of a trusted host on an NT machine and entering it into the NT domain. If the SID doesn't match, the machine isn't granted entrance. Therefore, it would have to be have been assigned *before* it is connected to the network, and according to our local MCSE, it's totally intrinsic to the machine's hardware. What Ghostwalk does is to replace all occurrences of the first SID with the second. Combine this with the -NTN option to stop CHKDSK from undoing all your good work and the new SID goes in just fine. After that, you have to remove and re-add the machine to the particular NT domain so that the domain controller knows about the SID change, too. Windows networking is just *weird* :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Cold Wave Linked To Temperatures --------------- From spc at armigeron.com Sat Sep 2 23:04:55 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved In-Reply-To: <001301c0153a$ee9e1d80$0500c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Sep 02, 2000 06:07:20 PM Message-ID: <200009030404.AAA16963@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > Yes, that would be a nice feature, but I'd be satisfied for starters with > ANY Win9x-based utility that actually would provide a no-nonsense backup > procedure, one that would recognize that it formatted the tape, one that > would follow its own schedule and would recognize the same tape each time it > was in the drive. I'd like it to start within 1 minute of when it's invoked > when running on a 150 MHz machine, and that wouldn't ask me more than once > if REALLY want to do what I just typed. I'd like it to go ahead and back up > the files it can back up and skip the ones it can't, without human > intervention, and NEVER create new files that subsequently require it be > manually instructed, file by file, not to back up the files the program > itself created in order to perform the backup, all of which are, of course. > open. When I'm using a 20-tape library, I'd prefer it NOT ask for > permission to use the next tape, and, having gotten that perimssion, I'd > prefer it not ask again before overwriting the tape. I'd prefer it be able > to read the backup it wrote yesterday, and I'd be happy if it could > recognize the tape it just formatted. If you can, try to get the Cygnus GNU package for Windows, which includes tar (stands for Tape ARchive). A friend of mine had to back up something like 40 or 50g worth of data and the program he was using on NT would stop at the first file it couldn't read and require human intervention (and even then, it refused to continue). After several attempts at a workaround, we gave up, installed tar and while it couldn't communicate with the tape drive, we did manage to backup the data onto another drive (in our case, we had one local) and tar basically skipped the files it couldn't read (which is what we really needed). > If there were even one program that really would work, producing unattended > backups of the whole system over the LAN every day, assuming there's enough > bandwidth on its 100Mb channel, I'd use it. I've bought a half dozen > different vendors' offerings, and half of them don't even run, let alone > perform backups. Install one of the free Unix systems (Linux, *BSD) on an older box, slap Samba on it, and use the Unix backup systems. Might actually work and it'll definitely be cheaper. -spc (Of course, run the fvwm95 window manager under X and many won't notice it's not NT ... 8-) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 23:14:47 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <00a501c0155e$85da28b0$c5099a8d@ajp166> My little system here is only 5 pcs two running NT and the TLZ04 DDS1 does fine for that. Work I have the two NT4 boxen that are only pIII/550s 9gb mirrored pair for data and 4.3 gb for system stuff. Each has HP T20 and thats a good match. The remaining three servers backup to a 500$ quantum 10gb snap drive and that cascade copies to a P133 server that has a T20 on it. This is good for a business as the clients that do back up do it to the servers so they have live data for the next day. Simple ripple backup scheme with multiple copies of the same data for safety. KISS is still the operative mode word. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 2 23:21:31 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <00a601c0155e$8672e640$c5099a8d@ajp166> >No, the SID (as I recall from my guilty little store of NT data) is >generated off hardware to prevent someone from simply putting the name of a >trusted host on an NT machine and entering it into the NT domain. If the >SID doesn't match, the machine isn't granted entrance. Therefore, it would >have to be have been assigned *before* it is connected to the network, and >according to our local MCSE, it's totally intrinsic to the machine's hardware. Simple solution is to rename the machine, reboot then go the primary domain controller and delete the server then reenter it. go back to the first and change the domain and tada it's a domain member. If you want it to be in a trusted do main thas easier. All this hinges off SID and more importantly that NT native networking is netbios(netbeui) even if your running TCP/IP as it simple does netbios over that. >Windows networking is just *weird* :-P Not really once you accept the fact that it's netbeui based from it's legacy of lanman and DOS. Thats where the domain sillyness comes from. Until I sorted all that our I found NT to be very secure. ;) I couldn't get anything to talk to anything even though they were in the same IP adress range and all. Wierd, yes... very. Allison From swperk at earthlink.net Sat Sep 2 23:43:56 2000 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Hints/tips for firing up MONROmatic IQ 213 calculator? References: <200008240002.RAA08724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <3.0.1.16.20000824233756.34f7ddbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <39B1D70C.81EBDB62@earthlink.net> Hello all, I just acquired a MONROmatic IQ 213 calculator, and, although it appears to be in excellent condition, I wanted to know if anyone on the list had experience with this machine and could warn me about any potential "gotchas" as well as give me a brief summary of its operation. Thanks in advance, Stan -- Please note my new e-mail address: swperk@earthlink.net From mcruse at acm.org Sun Sep 3 01:34:44 2000 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Message-ID: <39B1F104.A066CBFB@acm.org> Hi all, I just managed to get hold of a Data General Eclipse MV9000. I think it has been upgraded since the processor card says MV9300. I has over a hundred serial ports, three hard drives (ZetaCo), 9 track tape drive, five D211 terminals and three printers. I'm looking for documentation and software of any kind for this machine but I have not found anything substantial searching the net yet. Any ideas? This machine was apparently the target of a search by the local HAM radio clubs for the source of a 125Mhz signal that was triggering the emergency signal receivers in Russian satellites. I'm trying to get more info on this little bit of history this week. The machine looks at home next to the PDP8/i. I'm running 240Vac to the machine this week so I'll get to see if it works. Any DG AOS/VS people out there? Mike From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 07:38:28 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0CE@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> >On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > > > Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell > > > mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that > > > one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks like > > > an old PC serial mouse, is it? > > > > Dunno, but Doug Englebart's original rodentia were made in this fashion... > > The Honeywell mouse is not the same. It's wheels are nearly parallel to > the bottom surface of the mouse, rather than perpendicular. But they > are tilted slightly, one on each axis. The idea is to keep crud from > being pulled into the mouse. Some other vendors OEM'd these or licensed > the design, for instance some DEC hockeypuck mice work this way. Ah... I'll have to keep my eyes open for one of these! -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 07:50:34 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0CF@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > For my money it is the Needham's EMP-20, nearly on topic > since they were introduced in 1993 :-) Yup, ditto that, nice unit... > Its a parallel port based device and their software programs a _LOT_ of > devices. Further with just the base unit you can program a lot of stuff. > With three "personality" cards you can program every PIC made and nearly > every ATMEL part made. There personality cards cleverly use the SIMM socket > as a means for re-routing power/signals to the socket that can accommodate > narrow or wide parts up to 64 pins. I also bought the 68 pin PLCC adapter > to program 68HC11's. The "downside" is that their software continues to be > DOS based and so my DOS PC continues its life on my workbench as primarily > a tool for operating such things. For a while, I had mine in my 160MHz 486 box (overclocked AMD5x86-133), which dual-boots between DOS/WfW311 and Win95Retail, then moved it to a DOS 5 machine that also hosts Linux on UMDOS partitions. Now it's in a pure DOS-only machine, running open-air (desktop box, no cover). -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 07:51:48 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > I have heard that 1 or 2 dozen White Castle burgers is > another substitute. > > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. I was introduced to them by > my WC-munchin' pa when I visited family in Ohio, and they were > positively nasty. :-P "Woa, these things are *nasty*. Another sack of ten, please..." -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 07:53:48 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > > I have heard that 1 or 2 dozen White Castle burgers is another substitute. > > > > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. I was introduced to them by my WC-munchin' > > pa when I visited family in Ohio, and they were positively nasty. :-P > > I've heard those called "murder burgers". When they hit your stomach, > it was murder... Strange... never heard anyone say they caused *stomach* problems, but they do have a way of finding their way to the sea rather quickly... ;-) -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 07:56:57 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >At a local electronics trade school where I worked (as a programmer and > >teaching digital briefly), we had a bunch of Televideo TS-803 Z-80 based > >CP/M workstations; each had a mouse port, we bought only one mouse tho; > >it was an early Mouse Systems unit, optical, but requiring the dedicated > >optical mouse pad. Worked quite nicely, tho, and I wrote a rudimentary > >drawing program for it to create graphic objects for the computer-based > >simluation of our digital trainer/breadboard systems. > > Never said it was never done. I said *most* didnt'. I have a triad of > Visual 1050s that have a 6502+32k for graphics so I know some did. > It was however quite rare for those to have a mouse and software > that was mouse aware. Oh, sure, and I didn't mean to contradict you, I just wanted to provide a contrasting data point. I passed on a TS-803 on E-Bay recently, as I know where I can get one locally... they were really nice as CP/M machines go. regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 08:51:32 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: (O.T.) White Castle Belly Bombers Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D3@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > According to what their PR department says, the first White Castle was in > Wichita, KS. The first ones I saw were in Columbus OH. I wan't too > impressed with the small size, but I do like them now. Three or 4 WC's equal > one normal hamburger. I also thought they started in Columbus... do you remember when they used to keep a small rack of White Castle Corporate literature (I think they called them "house organs") at each store? > BTW, note that the buns are no more than Parkerhouse rolls. Hence the size > of the pattie. I like mine with cheese and horseradish mustard. Yum! never tried that, I either eat 'em plain or with Heinz & Dijon... > I have yet to figure why the frozen varieties cost more than the fresh ones. Well, the box for one, and the little plastic wraps each pair is sealed in. Then there's the labor for putting them in the bags and boxes... I don't believe it's an automated process. regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 08:54:22 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D4@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > It used to be that one could do backups on a home-based system. However, > softare to handle the backups just doesn't seem to be there. It's not > complicated, so one could, I suppose, roll-yer-own. My solution has been to abandon backups, and to create archives instead. When possible, I try to extract from the running system any configuration info I'd need to get back to where I was, and include that in the archive as well. But backing up home systems in situ is problematic, since you generally have to have a running system from which to restore the backup anyway. regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 09:05:01 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D5@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Anyone reading this could suggest a good low cost POP3/SMTP package > for NT4 server with 40 users (not internet), contact me off list. IT > doesn't have to forward mail to the internet as we dont have such a > connection...yet. Hi, Allison... Until we went with MS Exchange, we were running Mercury Mail server under NT4... it's written by the same guy down in Oz who wrote Pegasus Mail. And once you're ready to connect to the internet, IIRC, it can use a standard dial-up line to a $20/mo ISP account to move mail in and out. Let me know if you'd like more info, and I'll scrape it up... regards, -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 09:15:40 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Any DG AOS/VS people out there? I helped evaluate the Eclipse around 1980 when our local Indiana Unversity campus was trying to break free from our total dependence on the centralized IU computing factilities in Bloomington and Indianapolis. It had a lot to offer, but we like Pr1me better, and went that route. IIRC, the Eclipse architecture was an evolution of the DG Nova architecture. It's development is the subject of Tracy Kidder's "Soul of a New Machine", a book I'd highly recommend reading. regards, -doug q From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Sep 3 09:28:18 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D4@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <39B26002.5755AF17@idirect.com> >Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > It used to be that one could do backups on a home-based system. However, > > softare to handle the backups just doesn't seem to be there. It's not > > complicated, so one could, I suppose, roll-yer-own. > My solution has been to abandon backups, and to create archives instead. > When possible, I try to extract from the running system any configuration > info I'd need to get back to where I was, and include that in the archive > as well. Jerome Fine replies: I have attempted to combine the archive aspect with a full backup in my own situation that may also be of interest. I understand, however, that my own solution may not be practical for everyone else, but here it is. I was able to acquire a sufficient number of ESDI drives at a very low cost to allow me to use them on a real PDP-11 system. At one point, I even started to use a 1.2 GByte Hitachi DK516-15 drive, but have never been able to get them to work properly with the Sigma RQD11-EC quad controllers. But on the PC system, I find they are great. And since I archive as must of the stuff that does not change as needed, I still have almost 300 MBytes free. Every other day, I simply use "Explorer" (yes I am ashamed to admit I am on W95 - ugh) to copy all the files from the primary drive to a spare drive which I rotate around every 10 days (with a total of 3 drives for the month) so as to keep at least within a 1 1/2 week period of keeping all files up to date. I realize that this means getting inside the case all the time to physically change the hard drives, but so far it has worked fairly well. > But backing up home systems in situ is problematic, since you generally > have to have a running system from which to restore the backup anyway. By having a complete backup on drive D:, that is not a problem. It does mean that I must add the terminating resistor and switch the drive ID number if it is to become drive C:, but I don't need to do that operation more than once a year when I do something special. Meanwhile, when my primary drive went belly up about a year ago, I was fortunate to be able to just add the terminating resistor to the latest backup and just carry on. The only thing I lost was the dates on the directories since whenever the C: drive is copied to the D: drive, the current date is used on the directories, but the original date (last date modified) is still kept on all the other files. Just a suggestion, probably impractical for most of you. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From rdd at smart.net Sun Sep 3 10:48:33 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: <39B1F104.A066CBFB@acm.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Mike Cruse wrote: > I just managed to get hold of a Data General Eclipse MV9000. I think it Nice find! I used to work with an Eclipse MV-10,000 and an MV-2,000; they were fun systems to play with. > I'm looking for documentation and software of any kind for this machine > but I > have not found anything substantial searching the net yet. IIRC, unfortunately, Data General, from what I understand, isn't like DEC was when it comes to allowing OS software to be used at home for free. > This machine was apparently the target of a search by the local HAM > radio > clubs for the source of a 125Mhz signal that was triggering the > emergency > signal receivers in Russian satellites. I'm trying to get more info on Neat! Let's all give that a try! Generating a 125MhZ signal sounds easy enough. ;-) Why are the ruskies' satellites so sensitive to low-level signals generated over here? Dang, I wonder how many false alerts my Jacob's ladder has triggered via harmonics? Mabye it needs a transformer with a higher voltage and more current and longer spark rods... > The machine looks at home next to the PDP8/i. I'm running 240Vac to the > machine this week so I'll get to see if it works. Good luck! -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Sun Sep 3 11:40:14 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] Message-ID: <87lmx9ig41.fsf@yodacity.local> I've just found a tape I recovered some time ago from the trash. It realy looks old. Tape dimensions: 1/2 inch, density 6250dpi, reel exterior diameter 8 1/2 inches, reel internal hole 95mm. What might it be? I have a QIC tape drive and a DEC TZ30 tape drive. Is there any chance (I mean, any chance at all, no matter how crazy) to hack a way of reading it with the those tape drives? Just wondering... Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From richard at idcomm.com Sun Sep 3 11:54:10 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved References: <200009030404.AAA16963@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <000b01c015c7$95aa1200$0500c0a8@winbook> There's one gotcha with the SAMBA (SMB) approach to this problem and that's in connection with the DOS backups I also have to do. My serious work, PCB layout, schematic capture, digital simulation, etc, is done largely in a 10-year-old DOS-based package. Reasons aside, what this means is that I still have to consider memory requirements for those applications. The SMB driver package(s) I've looked at have too large a memory requirement to fit, together with rather voluminous SCSI driver requirements imposed by my need for interchangeable media used together with the software I need. This means that I either use SAMBA or I get the work done, and not both. Of course, I could compromise, in that I could run the software under WIN9x, but that limits the display resolution I can use, since Win9x forces me to use an 800x600 resolution. I really prefer to be able to see the nearly 1:1 representation of a B-size (11x17") drawing on the CRT and still be able to read the lettering. Moreover, the Windows drivers for my HP 9585B plotter don't work properly, while the ones internal to the drafting package have always worked just fine. I have several packages under DOS that work properly, and not one under Windows, since the authors of the drivers apparently thought the $13,000 "E" size plotters work just like the $175 "A" size ones, which is not the case. Part of the backup problem is because of the long file names, since the DOS-based package that backs up and restores with complete reliability doesn't like long file names, and the software that understands the long file names doesn't understand backup. Yes, the LINUX is an option, but I'll not use it until there's synchronization between the documentation and the software in current usage. That seems millenia away, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner To: Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 10:04 PM Subject: Re: D'oh! Backup issue solved > It was thus said that the Great Richard Erlacher once stated: > > > > Yes, that would be a nice feature, but I'd be satisfied for starters with > > ANY Win9x-based utility that actually would provide a no-nonsense backup > > procedure, one that would recognize that it formatted the tape, one that > > would follow its own schedule and would recognize the same tape each time it > > was in the drive. I'd like it to start within 1 minute of when it's invoked > > when running on a 150 MHz machine, and that wouldn't ask me more than once > > if REALLY want to do what I just typed. I'd like it to go ahead and back up > > the files it can back up and skip the ones it can't, without human > > intervention, and NEVER create new files that subsequently require it be > > manually instructed, file by file, not to back up the files the program > > itself created in order to perform the backup, all of which are, of course. > > open. When I'm using a 20-tape library, I'd prefer it NOT ask for > > permission to use the next tape, and, having gotten that perimssion, I'd > > prefer it not ask again before overwriting the tape. I'd prefer it be able > > to read the backup it wrote yesterday, and I'd be happy if it could > > recognize the tape it just formatted. > > If you can, try to get the Cygnus GNU package for Windows, which includes > tar (stands for Tape ARchive). A friend of mine had to back up something > like 40 or 50g worth of data and the program he was using on NT would stop > at the first file it couldn't read and require human intervention (and even > then, it refused to continue). After several attempts at a workaround, we > gave up, installed tar and while it couldn't communicate with the tape > drive, we did manage to backup the data onto another drive (in our case, we > had one local) and tar basically skipped the files it couldn't read (which > is what we really needed). > > > If there were even one program that really would work, producing unattended > > backups of the whole system over the LAN every day, assuming there's enough > > bandwidth on its 100Mb channel, I'd use it. I've bought a half dozen > > different vendors' offerings, and half of them don't even run, let alone > > perform backups. > > Install one of the free Unix systems (Linux, *BSD) on an older box, slap > Samba on it, and use the Unix backup systems. Might actually work and it'll > definitely be cheaper. > > -spc (Of course, run the fvwm95 window manager under X and many won't > notice it's not NT ... 8-) > > From richard at idcomm.com Sun Sep 3 11:57:25 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0CF@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <001d01c015c8$09ead000$0500c0a8@winbook> Lack of a box should never stop you! I've hung power supply on one nail and motherboard on another and run 'em that way while trying to figure out appropriate packaging. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Quebbeman To: Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 6:50 AM Subject: RE: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations > > For my money it is the Needham's EMP-20, nearly on topic > > since they were introduced in 1993 :-) > > Yup, ditto that, nice unit... > > > Its a parallel port based device and their software programs a _LOT_ of > > devices. Further with just the base unit you can program a lot of stuff. > > With three "personality" cards you can program every PIC made and nearly > > every ATMEL part made. There personality cards cleverly use the SIMM > socket > > as a means for re-routing power/signals to the socket that can accommodate > > > narrow or wide parts up to 64 pins. I also bought the 68 pin PLCC adapter > > to program 68HC11's. The "downside" is that their software continues to be > > > DOS based and so my DOS PC continues its life on my workbench as primarily > > > a tool for operating such things. > > For a while, I had mine in my 160MHz 486 box (overclocked AMD5x86-133), > which dual-boots between DOS/WfW311 and Win95Retail, then moved it to a > DOS 5 machine that also hosts Linux on UMDOS partitions. > > Now it's in a pure DOS-only machine, running open-air (desktop box, no > cover). > > -dq > > From chris at mainecoon.com Sun Sep 3 12:18:05 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <39B287CD.C1A5A71C@mainecoon.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > IIRC, the Eclipse architecture was an evolution of the DG Nova architecture. > It's development is the subject of Tracy Kidder's "Soul of a New Machine", > a book I'd highly recommend reading. Sorta kinda. The Eagle architecture has some commonality with the Nova and 16-bit Eclipse family, and borrows on the technique of recycling meaningless instructions from the Nova in order to create instruction set space. Prior to loading microcode an Eagle is a brain-damaged unmapped Nova 800 -- more or less all of the Nova instruction set, minus the page zero autoincrement/autodecrement instructions. Enough that you can boot off disk and run enough code to find the microcode file and get on with life. The memory architecture is utterly differerent, supporting not only paging (it was about time!) but with eight rings -- which is why we chose it as the basis for our B-level OS work. While it maintained the ever-so-awful nova I/O bus the architecture allows support for seven distinct busses (although I'm not familiar with any machines which had more than two). One interesting characteristic of the Eagle that bit a lot of code generators is that many instructions had fields which were defined as "reserved, must be zero:. On the MV8000 these bits were ignored; on the MV4000 and 10000 having these bits nonzero resulted in traps. Ouch. Cheers, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 3 11:56:43 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <012501c015cb$69cfbbe0$c5099a8d@ajp166> From: Douglas Quebbeman >Oh, sure, and I didn't mean to contradict you, I just wanted to provide a Oh heck, shure you did. ;) >contrasting data point. I passed on a TS-803 on E-Bay recently, as I know >where I can get one locally... they were really nice as CP/M machines go. Yes they were. Got to play with one back when they were new and "da thing". Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 3 12:02:25 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <012601c015cb$6a500f70$c5099a8d@ajp166> >My solution has been to abandon backups, and to create archives instead. >When possible, I try to extract from the running system any configuration >info I'd need to get back to where I was, and include that in the archive >as well. Actually from expereince that is a good approach. Expereince has been that when I needed a back up or archive I also had changed OSs due to major system failure. For example the latest was due to a real disk crash. So I finally jumped off W3.1 to WinNT4 so archives were actually more useful. I started doing that lots of years ago as every new varient of CP/M system usually had more storage so it was rare that I wanted to reproduce the former configuration. Also archives allowed me to leave off stuff that was of little or no further interest. Allison From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Sep 3 12:29:12 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] In-Reply-To: <87lmx9ig41.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000903102912.00996330@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 17:40 03-09-2000 +0100, you wrote: > I've just found a tape I recovered some time ago from the >trash. It realy looks old. Tape dimensions: 1/2 inch, density 6250dpi, >reel exterior diameter 8 1/2 inches, reel internal hole 95mm. What >might it be? Hmm? Standard open-reel 9-track tape from the sound of it. The '6250' is a dead giveaway. That's a standard density in 9-track land. > I have a QIC tape drive and a DEC TZ30 tape drive. Is there >any chance (I mean, any chance at all, no matter how crazy) to hack a >way of reading it with the those tape drives? Just wondering... Most definitely not. Totally different format and bit densities. You will need a 9-track drive and appropriate controller to do so. If you can't locate such, and you're really curious as to what's on it, I'm one of (likely) several people on the list that could read it for you (if you don't mind mailing to the States). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 3 12:31:05 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <013901c015cd$87f1bea0$c5099a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >There's one gotcha with the SAMBA (SMB) approach to this problem and that's >in connection with the DOS backups I also have to do. My serious work, PCB >layout, schematic capture, digital simulation, etc, is done largely in a >10-year-old DOS-based package. Reasons aside, what this means is that I >still have to consider memory requirements for those applications. The SMB >driver package(s) I've looked at have too large a memory requirement to fit, >together with rather voluminous SCSI driver requirements imposed by my need >for interchangeable media used together with the software I need. This >means that I either use SAMBA or I get the work done, and not both. Ok then the dos/networking is a problem on the dos side not the server side where SAMBA runs. RIght? Yes running dos is painful as it lives in the 640k world wher things have to fit. >Of course, I could compromise, in that I could run the software under WIN9x, >but that limits the display resolution I can use, since Win9x forces me to >use an 800x600 resolution. I really prefer to be able to see the nearly 1:1 >representation of a B-size (11x17") drawing on the CRT and still be able to >read the lettering. Well getting win9x to run at 640x480 or any other resolution is not a big deal if the video card and tube can, W9x really doesnt care. >Moreover, the Windows drivers for my HP 9585B plotter don't work properly, >while the ones internal to the drafting package have always worked just >fine. I have several packages under DOS that work properly, and not one >under Windows, since the authors of the drivers apparently thought the >$13,000 "E" size plotters work just like the $175 "A" size ones, which is >not the case. Get a new or different driver, we use one at work and it's larger D sized brother and it's not an issue under win9x. >Part of the backup problem is because of the long file names, since the >DOS-based package that backs up and restores with complete reliability >doesn't like long file names, and the software that understands the long >file names doesn't understand backup. Well using dos to do back up is not a best config. In the world of long file names dos is severly crippled. Rather than dos I'd use *nix or NT4 workstation as either is more robust than dos. Dos while fairly bug free has no protections and relies on sane debugged apps to be robust. FYI: NT4 workstation runs better than w95 on my stuff even the 486dx/66 box. >Yes, the LINUX is an option, but I'll not use it until there's >synchronization between the documentation and the software in current usage. >That seems millenia away, however. How about FreeBSD? Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 3 12:32:28 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] Message-ID: <013a01c015cd$88bb7740$c5099a8d@ajp166> Not a chance. That is an old 9track tape and drive are outthere for those that wish to. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, September 03, 2000 1:00 PM Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] > > I've just found a tape I recovered some time ago from the >trash. It realy looks old. Tape dimensions: 1/2 inch, density 6250dpi, >reel exterior diameter 8 1/2 inches, reel internal hole 95mm. What >might it be? > > I have a QIC tape drive and a DEC TZ30 tape drive. Is there >any chance (I mean, any chance at all, no matter how crazy) to hack a >way of reading it with the those tape drives? Just wondering... > > Cheers, > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 14:23:01 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0DC@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Neat! Let's all give that a try! Generating a 125MhZ signal sounds > easy enough. ;-) Why are the ruskies' satellites so sensitive to > low-level signals generated over here? Dang, I wonder how many false > alerts my Jacob's ladder has triggered via harmonics? Mabye it needs > a transformer with a higher voltage and more current and longer spark > rods... ROFL! R.D. fires up the tesla coil, and Cheyenne Mountain goes to Defcon III... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 14:26:25 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0DD@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > From: Douglas Quebbeman > > >Oh, sure, and I didn't mean to contradict you, I just wanted to provide > > Oh heck, shure you did. ;) Ok, sorry, but like Tim Allen says, it's that male hierarchical thing... (throaty primate emphasis on the "ar-ar" sound in that word). 8-; From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 3 13:24:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: Hints/tips for firing up MONROmatic IQ 213 calculator? In-Reply-To: <39B1D70C.81EBDB62@earthlink.net> from "Stan Perkins" at Sep 2, 0 09:43:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 619 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000903/d5008e06/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 3 14:01:34 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] In-Reply-To: <87lmx9ig41.fsf@yodacity.local> from "Rodrigo Ventura" at Sep 3, 0 05:40:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1715 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000903/9cb5879d/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 3 15:09:00 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0DD@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <39B2AFDC.4A5FDF10@rain.org> I have several TRS-80 Model II (w/ 8" drives) without keyboards. Are the Model III keyboards compatible? Also, if anyone wants one of these things, $10 plus shipping. The condition is unknown since I haven't fired them up ... and they don't include keyboards :). From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Sun Sep 3 16:32:26 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:19 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0DE@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Are these the ones that include the MC68000 cpu and run Xenix? > -----Original Message----- > From: Marvin [mailto:marvin@rain.org] > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 4:09 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: TRS-80 Model II > > > > I have several TRS-80 Model II (w/ 8" drives) without > keyboards. Are the > Model III keyboards compatible? > > Also, if anyone wants one of these things, $10 plus shipping. > The condition > is unknown since I haven't fired them up ... and they don't include > keyboards :). > From kees.stravers at iae.nl Sun Sep 3 17:16:28 2000 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II Message-ID: <20000903221628.94C9120F31@mail.iae.nl> On 2000-09-03 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >I have several TRS-80 Model II (w/ 8" drives) without keyboards. >Are the Model III keyboards compatible? No, they need a keyboard that uses a special serial protocol. The keyboard looks a bit like a Model I. >Also, if anyone wants one of these things, $10 plus shipping. The >condition is unknown since I haven't fired them up ... and they >don't include keyboards :). I think I have enough :) see: http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/modelii.html Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 3 16:40:29 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0DE@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Are these the ones that include the MC68000 cpu and run Xenix? Yes. I can make copies of Xenix or TRSDOS or even Pickles & Trout CP/M for anyone that's interested. (This is the one thing I have readily available in my collection since I've made so many for people in the past.) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From vaxman at uswest.net Sun Sep 3 18:14:46 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: Need bezel for DEC TLZ06-AA In-Reply-To: <20000903221628.94C9120F31@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: Hi, I recently purchased a few DEC TLZ06-AA DAT drives, and they arrived today. Unfortunately, The bezel on them is the width of a 3.5" drive, but the height of a half-height 5 1/4" drive. Does anyone know where I can get normal 5 1/4" bezel for them? Any suggestions on how to mount them in a PC and a uVAX II? Thanks, clint From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 3 20:18:59 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Are these the ones that include the MC68000 cpu and run Xenix? > Yes. I can make copies of Xenix or TRSDOS or even Pickles & Trout CP/M > for anyone that's interested. The 2, 12, and 16 all used the same case. The Model 2 was a Z-80 The Model 16 was the same case, with both the Z-80 AND the 68000. I don't remember what the Model 12 was. The model 2 could be UPGRADED, by adding the 68000 board. It then was NOT a Model 2, although the case would still say so. Likewise, a 3 could be converted into a 4. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Sep 3 21:24:35 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse References: <39B1F104.A066CBFB@acm.org> Message-ID: <00a501c01617$44f2de00$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Cruse" To: "Classic Computer Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 4:04 PM Subject: Data General Eclipse > Hi all, > > I just managed to get hold of a Data General Eclipse MV9000. I think it > has > been upgraded since the processor card says MV9300. I has over a hundred > > serial ports, three hard drives (ZetaCo), 9 track tape drive, five D211 > terminals > and three printers. > There is still a newsgroup frequented by such types. Don't have any DG stuff myself, (I'd like some) but if you were to post in comp.os.aos you will certainly get some responses. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476 From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 3 22:52:05 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved In-Reply-To: <200009030258.TAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> (message from Cameron Kaiser on Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:58:12 -0700 (PDT)) References: <200009030258.TAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20000904035205.22699.qmail@brouhaha.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > No, the SID (as I recall from my guilty little store of NT data) is > generated off hardware to prevent someone from simply putting the name of a > trusted host on an NT machine and entering it into the NT domain. If the > SID doesn't match, the machine isn't granted entrance. Therefore, it would > have to be have been assigned *before* it is connected to the network, and > according to our local MCSE, it's totally intrinsic to the machine's > hardware. The SID may be seeded from the Ethernet MAC address or something, but it isn't really tied to the machine. I've replaced Ethernet cards on NT boxes with no problems. But the SID is supposed to be a "secret" shared between the client and the server. If someone else gets hold of the SID, they can masquerade as the client and have whatever security privs that client had. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 3 22:55:33 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] In-Reply-To: <87lmx9ig41.fsf@yodacity.local> (message from Rodrigo Ventura on 03 Sep 2000 17:40:14 +0100) References: <87lmx9ig41.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: <20000904035533.22737.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I've just found a tape I recovered some time ago from the > trash. It realy looks old. Tape dimensions: 1/2 inch, density 6250dpi, > reel exterior diameter 8 1/2 inches, reel internal hole 95mm. What > might it be? A 9-track tape. They came in various outside diameters up to 10.5 inches. The maximum tape length was nominally 2400 feet, but you could get thin tape at 3600 feet. Thin tape was much more prone to getting stretched, snapped, or otherwise chewed up. > I have a QIC tape drive and a DEC TZ30 tape drive. Is there > any chance (I mean, any chance at all, no matter how crazy) to hack a > way of reading it with the those tape drives? Just wondering... No. If there are important bits on the tape, I'd be willing to read them for you, but you'd have to ship it to the USA (and pay for return shipping if you want the physical media back). From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 3 22:57:15 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: <39B2AFDC.4A5FDF10@rain.org> (message from Marvin on Sun, 03 Sep 2000 13:09:00 -0700) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0DD@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> <39B2AFDC.4A5FDF10@rain.org> Message-ID: <20000904035715.22763.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I have several TRS-80 Model II (w/ 8" drives) without keyboards. Are the > Model III keyboards compatible? No, unfortunately not. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 3 23:00:24 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:40:29 -0700 (PDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000904040024.22804.qmail@brouhaha.com> Douglas asks about the TRS-80 Model II: > Are these the ones that include the MC68000 cpu and run Xenix? Sellam replies: > Yes. I can make copies of Xenix or TRSDOS or even Pickles & Trout CP/M > for anyone that's interested. Actually not. The 68000 is only in the Model 16, 16B, and 6000. It's possible to upgrade a II to a 16 though, or a 12 to a 6000. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 3 23:02:29 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II In-Reply-To: (cisin@xenosoft.com) References: Message-ID: <20000904040229.22831.qmail@brouhaha.com> Fred wrote: > The 2, 12, and 16 all used the same case. I'm not sure whether the 12 and the 6000 were exactly the same case as the 16b, but they were close. > The Model 2 was a Z-80 > The Model 16 was the same case, with both the Z-80 AND the 68000. > I don't remember what the Model 12 was. The 12 was the cost-reduced II. They got rid of the card cage and put all the electronics on one board (like a Model 3). However, the card cage could be added as an option. From marvin at rain.org Mon Sep 4 02:05:20 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:20 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model II References: <005501bd1feb$897ba7c0$83703ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <39B349B0.227A16B5@rain.org> Owen Robertson wrote: > > >Also, if anyone wants one of these things, $10 plus shipping. The > >condition > >is unknown since I haven't fired them up ... and they don't include > >keyboards :). > > Do you know how much shipping will be? Well, that depends on where you live :). I am guessing the weight is about 35 pounds, but I need to weigh it to know for sure. I live in California, zip 93105. Marvin From jate at uwasa.fi Mon Sep 4 02:52:39 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 09:48:07AM -0500 References: <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20000904105238.B991@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 09:48:07AM -0500, Joe wrote: > Jarkko, > > I have a big collection of HP Journals but I don't have that issue. > However you used to be able to order reprints from HP. They should tell how > on their HP Journal website. I guess I have to check. Are the journals normally worth the reprint price ? > > >Any other 9000/550 trivia gratiously accepted as it's quite > >difficult to find information about them. > > > > I talked to one the HP 9825 developers. He told me that the HP 9845 > were supposed to be replaced by the 9000/5xx machines but that HP had a lot > of trouble with them and didn't built very many of them. > Through some websearching I found one other 550. I have two of them, dual-processor, >5MB memory. Very nice. I have some really *really* poor quality pictures at http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/kuvat/ I solemnly promise to get a few better pics soon:) Does anybody have any idea how many were built ? I have yet to figure out a *safe* way to clone the OS to another disk for backup. Still looking for a complete list of all HP products through all time:) -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From daniel.kolb at corpus-christi.oxford.ac.uk Mon Sep 4 05:25:36 2000 From: daniel.kolb at corpus-christi.oxford.ac.uk (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: <39B1F104.A066CBFB@acm.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Mike Cruse wrote: > I'm looking for documentation and software of any kind for this > machine but I have not found anything substantial searching the net > yet. > > Any ideas? I've managed to get hold of a DG MV2500 with a number of hard drives (some didn't work, so it's running on only 2 instead of 4). It's running AOS/VS 7.something (can't remember offhand), and used to run Brunel University's Library system. I'd also be interested in any documentation as, also, I couldn't find anything on the net :-( Regards, Dan -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net Oxford University Computer Society Secretary --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- From rachael_ at gmx.net Mon Sep 4 10:52:42 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: beginer WAX Message-ID: <467.282T2139T10124231rachael_@gmx.net> I`m having the opportunity to buy a VAXstation 4000 VLC, would anyone recomment it, as a "my first VAX" ? Or should I go for another model ? Regads Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Sep 4 11:04:32 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20000904155956.KHPS27630.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I can help with just about anything you need. Operating system tapes, diagnostics, docs, and experience. I feel for the both of you two. It took me five months of sweat and hard research to get my MV4000DC up and running. It would gratify me greatly if I could impart some of what I learned to you two gentlemen. In , on 09/04/00 at 12:04 PM, Dan Kolb said: >On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Mike Cruse wrote: >> I'm looking for documentation and software of any kind for this >> machine but I have not found anything substantial searching the net >> yet. >> >> Any ideas? >I've managed to get hold of a DG MV2500 with a number of hard drives >(some didn't work, so it's running on only 2 instead of 4). It's running >AOS/VS 7.something (can't remember offhand), and used to run Brunel >University's Library system. I'd also be interested in any documentation >as, also, I couldn't find anything on the net :-( >Regards, >Dan -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From frederik at freddym.org Mon Sep 4 11:57:14 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: beginer WAX In-Reply-To: <467.282T2139T10124231rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: Hi! > I`m having the opportunity to buy a VAXstation 4000 VLC, > would anyone recomment it, as a "my first VAX" ? > Or should I go for another model ? It is a nice VAX, and it has everything onboard. No option slots AFAIK. It is certanly a good starter-model, but keep in mind that you can just run OpenVMS or Ultrix on it. No NetBSD (at the moment). But OpenVMS is a very very nice system too. How much is it?! With or without monitor? RAM? Disc? -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Sep 4 12:12:46 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo's message of "Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:50:24 +0300" References: <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <200009041712.KAA89695@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > In my ongoing search for all things HP 9000 Series 500 I accidentally > stumbled into HP Journal. HP has a database on the web with just > the article names: > > http://www.hp.com/hpj/journal.html How...sad. A couple or three years ago, HP stopped printing the Journal on paper and went to web-only publication. Then they offered a reprint service for old issues/articles. Now it seems that they've stopped that entirely, removed the web-only articles, and outsourced the reprint service. > But there seems to be a bug of sorts (I think I ought to report > it to HP). Try searching for HP 9000 Series 500, and you'll get one > article: You want to look at two issues: August 1983 and March 1984. August 1983: (0) front cover: photo of FOCUS memory, IOP, and CPU boards with protective covers removed. p. 1. (1) VLSI Technology Packs 32-Bit Computer System into a Small Package, by Joseph W. Beyers, Eugene R. Zeller, and S. Dana Seccombe. pp. 3-6. (2) An 18-MHz, 32-Bit VLSI Microprocessor, by Kevin P. Burkhart, Mark A. Forsyth, Mark E. Hammer, and Darius F. Tanksalvala. pp. 7-8, 10-11. (3) Instruction Set for a Single-Chip 32-Bit Processor, by James G. Fiasconaro. pp. 9-10. (4) VLSI I/O Processor for a 32-Bit Computer System, by Fred J. Gross, William S. Jaffe, and Donald R. Weiss. pp. 11-14. (5) High-Performance VLSI Memory System, by Clifford G. Lob, Mark J. Reed, Joseph P. Fucetola, and Mark A. Ludwig. pp. 14-20. (6) 18-MHz Clock Distribution System, by Clifford G. Lob and Alexander O. Elkins. p. 17. (7) 128K-Bit NMOS Dynamic RAM with Redundancy, by John K. Wheeler, John R. Spencer, Dale R. Beucler, and Charlie G. Kohlhardt. pp. 20-24. (8) Finstrate: A New Concept in VLSI Packaging, by Arun K. Malholtra, Glen E. Leinbach, Jeffery J. Straw, and Guy R. Wagner. pp. 24-26. (9) NMOS-III Process Technology, by James M. Mikkelson, Fung-Sun Fei, Arun K. Maholtra, and S. Dana Seccombe. pp. 27-29. (10) Two-Layer Refractory Metal IC Process, by James P. Roland, Norman E. Hendrickson, Daniel D. Kessler, Donald E. Novy Jr., and David W. Quint. pp. 30-33. (11) NMOS-III Photolithography, by Howard E. Abraham, Keith G. Bartlett, Garry L. Hillis, Mark Stolz, and Martin S. Wilson. pp. 34-37. March 1984: (0) front cover: photo of a "solar system" made up of colored balls. p. 1. (1) A New 32-Bit VLSI Computer Family: Part II--Software, by Michael V. Hetrick and Micheal L. Kolesar. pp. 3-6. (2) HP-UX: Implementation of Unix on the HP 9000 Series 500 Computer System, by Scoyy W. Y. Wang and Jeff B. Lindberg. pp. 7-15. (3) An Interactive Run-Time Compiler for Enhanced BASIC Language Performance, by David M. Landers, Timothy W. Tillson, Jack D. Cooley, and Richard R. Rupp. pp. 15-21. (4) A Local Area Network for the HP 9000 Series 500 Computers, by John J. Balza, H. Michael Wenzel, and James L. Willits. pp. 22-23, 25-27. (5) Data Communications for a 32-Bit Computer Workstation, by Vincent C. Jones. pp. 24-25. (6) A General-Purpose Operating System Kernel for a 32-Bit Computer System, by Dennis D. Georg, Benjamin D. Osecky, and Stephan D. Sheid. pp. 28-34. (7) The Design of a General-Purpose Multiple-Processor System, by Benjamin D. Osecky, Dennis D. Georg, and Robert J. Bury. pp. 34-38. (8) An I/O Subsystem for a 32-Bit Computer Operating System, by Robert M. Lenk, Charles E. Mear, Jr., and Marcel E. Meier. pp. 38-41. (9) Coping with Prior Invention, by Donald L. Hammond. p. 44 (rear cover). About the HP 2225 ThinkJet and HP's decision to work with Canon when they found Canon had already developed similar ink-jet printing technology. > Does anybody have the magazine (and be willing to sell it :) or if > somebody has it could they give a list of the articles and > some info on is it worth ordering as a reprint. As you might guess, the answers are yes (and no), and see above. These two issues are primarily about the HP 9000 Series 500 family. The August 1983 issue is about the hardware and processor design and packaging, and the March 1984 issue is about the software. As Joe mentioned, the 9000 was originally conceived as a sort of follow-on to the 9845 high-performance BASIC workstation. Somewhere in there the marketeers got the idea that it should run this new UNIX thing too, and so the OS developers got the idea of this lower-layer OS called "SUN" (no relation to that other UNIX vendor) that provided basic multiprocessor and multiprogramming support: multiple processes, memory management, multiprocessor-safe synchronization primitives, stuff like that. They then implemented a single-user BASIC atop that, and a port of System III UNIX called HP-UX. And, well, it's really a fascinating approach to performance from the very late 1970s and early 1980s. That first issue is largely about the design of a high-performance 32-bit CISC microprocessor based on the then-current notions within HP: it's a 32-bit microcoded stack processor, just like a big classic HP3000. Speed meant power, and power meant heat, and they needed to do something about the heat. Ever pull the CPU or memory cards out and notice how heavy they are for their size? That's because the boards have a 1mm solid copper core. The ICs are not in packages, they sit in holes in the Teflon printed-circuit base and are epoxied directly to the copper core, which dissipates the heat that the ICs generate when running. Bond-out wires go directly to pads on the printed-circuit board. That's why there are protective covers on the boards, there's naked silicon and other fragile stuff underneath. Astronomical notions are what drive the code names: SUN: the OS FOCUS: the processor chip family MONOCLE: the boot loader ("puts the SUN into FOCUS") DAWN: the 9020 (520) CORONA: can't remember, was this the 9040 (540)? That (especially the "SUN" name of the OS) is why the "solar system" picture on the cover of the March 1984 issue. At the time of the August 1983 issue, the family wasn't called the "Series 500", it was just the "HP 9000" with models 20, 30, and 40 (9020, 9030, 9040). Somewhere between there and March 1984, the 98[123]6 and 9920 were renamed as the HP 9000 Series 200 family (2[123]6 and 220, respectively) and the models 20, 30, and 40 became the Series 520, 530, and 540. I think the Series 550 came after this. -Frank McConnell From mlnealey at earthlink.net Mon Sep 4 12:29:51 2000 From: mlnealey at earthlink.net (Mike Nealey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse References: Message-ID: <39B3DC0F.73E93212@earthlink.net> Ya know, we should start a DG looking for info mailing list. I have a DG MV5000DC that I am looking for info on, also. I would love to hear from anyone who has any serial cables for this machine (MV5000DC). The cable I'm looking for is the big 50 or 60 pin job that goes on the back of the machine on the top row of the connectors. (If that makes any sense). Thanks... Mike N. Dan Kolb wrote: > On Sat, 2 Sep 2000, Mike Cruse wrote: > > > I'm looking for documentation and software of any kind for this > > machine but I have not found anything substantial searching the net > > yet. > > > > Any ideas? > > I've managed to get hold of a DG MV2500 with a number of hard drives (some > didn't work, so it's running on only 2 instead of 4). It's running AOS/VS > 7.something (can't remember offhand), and used to run Brunel University's > Library system. I'd also be interested in any documentation as, also, I > couldn't find anything on the net :-( > > Regards, > > Dan > -- > dankolb@ox.compsoc.net Oxford University Computer Society Secretary > > --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or > opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Sep 4 12:54:48 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo's message of "Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:52:39 +0300" References: <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20000904105238.B991@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <200009041754.KAA90845@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jarkko Teppo wrote: (HP9000 series 550) > I have yet to figure out a *safe* way to clone the OS to another > disk for backup. I recommend reading the following man pages as a start: osmgr(8), sdfinit(8), mkrs(8). Follow the "see also" links in the pages for more info. Having a 9144 or equivalent CS/80 cartridge tape drive (and cartridges) could be a Good Thing, that's the sort of device that mkrs wants to build its bootable tape filesystem upon. -Frank McConnell From aclark at envirolink.org Mon Sep 4 13:49:06 2000 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: //c in platinum (?) case In-Reply-To: References: <467.282T2139T10124231rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000904144400.00c2c460@manatee.envirolink.org> I've read that the version 3 Apple //c (with RAM expansion connector) was produced only in a platinum case rather than the white case of the earlier //c versions. Is this correct? I have a version 3 //c that I've been working on. It is in a white case. It's possible that someone upgraded their older //c with a new v3 motherboard, but the case didn't appear to have been opened before. I am thoroughly puzzled at this point. Arthur Clark From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Sep 4 13:42:22 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: <39B1F104.A066CBFB@acm.org> Message-ID: <20000904185458.QRSM12879.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> You are right about the cpu expansion to a 9300. The machine does not NEED 240vac to operate. Nearly all MV's were 120volt except for the very very largest ones. Your's has a set of jumper wires in the back of the power supply which 'tells' the ps which current to use. Internally the power pack will split the 240 into 120volt so be careful and ask before you power it up. I'd hate to see the supply smoke before you got a chance to play with the machine. The Eclipse is OCTAL which takes some getting used to.... You are very lucky to get the machine. The other two fellows in the group who have MV2000dc and MV5000dc machines have thier work cut out for them. Your machine is a 'standard' eclipse and so can share parts with most other MV's. You can also read/write the standard 9track tapes which is very fortunate! Just let me know and I will be glad to run off a set of install tapes for networking and AOS/VS II. The machine is OCTAL! This is really important because the device codes for boot are octal. usually the machine will boot from device code (octal) 22 or 24 which usually references the first 9track tape unit. It will boot from hard disk once you have the OS set up. You need microcode to get anywhere. I should have the code in my collection. Getting it on the machine is another story entirely. Verifying the machine is pretty easy. You boot a diagnostic operating system called Adex or Ades - they changed the name when AIDS became a medical issue.... I have several versions. The adex/ades tape contains microcode for your machine as well as lots of utilities and diagnostics. I can also run a copy of ADEX for you. If you can provide the tape media for the copies it would be a big help. I would need three 7" reels such as the Scotch 700 or blackwatch 700 from 3m, and one 'short' tape. (Two 700's for aos/vs II, one 700' for TCP/IP, and the shortie for Adex.) If you don't have media, I'd guess about $20.00 should be enough for tapes from CPB. I don't have enough blanks to spare. I have several spare 'short' tapes but no 700's to spare. Because your's is a normal MV, I have several spare cards for it; a working 2mb ram card, a non-working but fixable 8mb ram card, and a working 16line serial terminal controller card (IAC16) - not that you need any more terminal lines ;-) I also have a spare, working tape controller for a 9track drive. Does your 9track have the reels side-by-side or over/under? There is a difference between the capacities of the two types though tapes can be interchanged to a degree. In <39B1F104.A066CBFB@acm.org>, on 09/04/00 at 02:42 PM, Mike Cruse said: >Hi all, >I just managed to get hold of a Data General Eclipse MV9000. I think it >has >been upgraded since the processor card says MV9300. I has over a hundred >serial ports, three hard drives (ZetaCo), 9 track tape drive, five D211 >terminals >and three printers. >I'm looking for documentation and software of any kind for this machine >but I >have not found anything substantial searching the net yet. >Any ideas? >This machine was apparently the target of a search by the local HAM radio >clubs for the source of a 125Mhz signal that was triggering the emergency >signal receivers in Russian satellites. I'm trying to get more info on >this little >bit of history this week. >The machine looks at home next to the PDP8/i. I'm running 240Vac to the >machine this week so I'll get to see if it works. >Any DG AOS/VS people out there? >Mike -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 4 17:31:14 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: New Toy Message-ID: <001401c016bf$d6bf4dc0$76701fd1@default> Picked up a FLUKE 8000A Digital Multimeter (92270) at the yard for a couple dollars. Seems to power up but no leads came with it. No doc's either, can I use some Radio Shack test leads with this unit ? John Keys From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Sep 4 17:49:14 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: beginer WAX In-Reply-To: ; from frederik@freddym.org on Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 06:57:14PM +0200 References: <467.282T2139T10124231rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20000904174914.A19404@mrbill.net> On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 06:57:14PM +0200, Frederik Meerwaldt wrote: > It is a nice VAX, and it has everything onboard. No option slots AFAIK. > It is certanly a good starter-model, but keep in mind that you can just > run OpenVMS or Ultrix on it. No NetBSD (at the moment). Actually, NetBSD 1.5 runs very nice on the VLC. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Sep 4 18:41:21 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: (O.T.) White Castle Belly Bombers Message-ID: <20000904234121.77897.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > According to what their PR department says, the first White Castle was in > > Wichita, KS. The first ones I saw were in Columbus OH. > > I also thought they started in Columbus... I'm from Columbus. People here also think they started here. We do have a regional headquarters, and they are an ubiquitious establishment, especially when you are looking in the wee hours. Now, Wendy's _did_ start in Columbus (across from COSI, on East Broad St.; the number one restaurant is still there and still open) and so did Rax's Roast Beef. I'm told that we have the highest number of fast-food outlets per capita in the U.S. Having two chains start here certainly puts us ahead of that curve. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Sep 4 19:09:05 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: beginer WAX In-Reply-To: References: <467.282T2139T10124231rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000904170432.00c7b950@208.226.86.10> I don't know who wrote the original message on the VLC so this goes to the list, perhaps other collectors will find it useful. The VLC is the "ideal" VAX these days for a couple of reasons: 1) It runs both NetBSD and OpenVMS with reasonable speed. 2) It takes standard RAM so can easily be upgraded to its max (24MB) 3) It can run either "headless" as a server or using its on board peripherals it can run as a "workstation." 4) It has a standard SCSI interface so that it use cheap SCSI disks that are also plentiful. (1GB is plenty for either NetBSD or OpenVMS) 5) ... and finally, as it is in the BA10 case it takes up the least amount of space of any vax! So, all in all it is the ideal VAX in my opinion. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 4 19:47:42 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: //c in platinum (?) case In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000904144400.00c2c460@manatee.envirolink.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Arthur Clark wrote: > I've read that the version 3 Apple //c (with RAM expansion connector) was > produced only in a platinum case rather than the white case of the earlier > //c versions. Is this correct? I have a version 3 //c that I've been > working on. It is in a white case. It's possible that someone upgraded > their older //c with a new v3 motherboard, but the case didn't appear to > have been opened before. I am thoroughly puzzled at this point. The //c case is not difficult to open up, so it's very possible someone has been inside and upgraded it. What sort of keyboard is on yours? One where the keys have a stiff feel to them or one where the keys have a real nice action? The later models (including the Platinum abd //c+) have nice keyboards. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Sep 4 21:17:25 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: New Toy In-Reply-To: <001401c016bf$d6bf4dc0$76701fd1@default> Message-ID: <200009050217.e852Ho204114@grover.winsite.com> As long as the pins fit the jacks on the Fluke, leads is leads, as they say. As long as you're only testing standard stuff, and not something that requires a special probe. Couple dollars is good..... I've always gone by the credo that "Cheap is good, free is better". I picked up an HP bench DMM for $20, and was given a Simpson bench DMM for free, so both of those fit the credo..... > Picked up a FLUKE 8000A Digital Multimeter (92270) at the yard for a > couple dollars. Seems to power up but no leads came with it. No doc's > either, can I use some Radio Shack test leads with this unit ? John Keys > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Sep 4 21:39:21 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: New Toy In-Reply-To: <001401c016bf$d6bf4dc0$76701fd1@default> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000904193921.0099a880@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 17:31 04-09-2000 -0500, you wrote: >Picked up a FLUKE 8000A Digital Multimeter (92270) at the yard for a >couple dollars. Seems to power up but no leads came with it. No doc's >either, can I use some Radio Shack test leads with this unit ? You can use anything that has banana plugs on it. Personally, though, I'd buy the nice silicone wire and the probe parts and make my own leads. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From mcruse at acm.org Mon Sep 4 22:32:13 2000 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse References: <39B3DC0F.73E93212@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <39B4693D.3D925690@acm.org> Mike Nealey wrote: > Ya know, we should start a DG looking for info mailing list. I have a DG > MV5000DC that I am looking for info on, also. I would love to hear from anyone > who has any serial cables for this machine (MV5000DC). The cable I'm looking > for is the big 50 or 60 pin job that goes on the back of the machine on the > top row of the connectors. (If that makes any sense). > A mailing list would be a great idea. By the way I have about 10 of those cables now assuming that they are the same as the ones on the Eclipse. The ones I have connect to a row of eight serial ports. Actually two cables seem to be necessary since my machine uses IAC16 serial cards. I saved everything. You are welcome to have one if you think it is the right one. I'll check the pin count tomorrow. Mike From vcf at siconic.com Tue Sep 5 02:57:45 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Apple-1 Auction at VCF 4.0 Message-ID: LIVERMORE, CA - September 5, 2000 [Vintage Computer Festival] The Vintage Computer Festival announced today that an original Apple-1 computer circa 1976 will be auctioned off on the first day of the 4th annual Vintage Computer Festival, happening on September 30th through October 1st at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. "This is the machine that launched Apple Computer and begat one of the most amazing Silicon Valleysuccess stories in the history of the computer business," said Vintage Computer Festival (VCF) founder and organizer, Sellam Ismail. "The story of Apple Computer is well known: two guys working out of a garage create what turns into a multi- billion dollar business. This computer represents the humble beginnings of an industry that has seen an incredible explosion of growth in such a relatively short span of time." The Apple-1 was the brainchild of Steve Wozniak, who designed and built it in his spare time in the mid 1970's while still an employee at Hewlett-Packard. Management at HP saw no future in the computer and released all rights to Wozniak. Steve Jobs, Wozniak's high school friend, convinced Wozniak to market the machine. Jobs managed to land an order for 50 of the machines with a chain computer store called The Byte Shop, helping to launch the fledgling Apple Computer. The original selling price was $666.66. "The public eye is currently on Apple and Apple's CEO Steve Jobs since they are riding a crest of excellent product releases and climbing revenue," says Ismail. "This auction will hopefully attract those who wish to own a piece of the history of Apple, one of the most celebrated Silicon Valley success stories. This machine also represents the birth of the microcomputer itself, and is a very significant machine, both for its place in computing history and for its rarity. There are probably less than 200 of these remaining in the world." Moreover, the machine going to the auction block is in a condition and state of completeness not seen in similar recent auctions. Says Ismail, "this computer comes with all the accessories it was originally sold with, making it the most complete Apple-1 to come to auction in recent times." The owner of the computer, Ray Borrill, operated a chain of computer stores in the Midwest in the late 70's, one of the first in the nation. This particular Apple-1 was one of 15 units ordered directly from Steve Jobs. It was used as a display model and was never sold. Borrill decided to hold onto it through the years for posterity. Borrill, now retired, has decided that it's time to pass the machine on to someone else who will continue to appreciate it as he did. The Vintage Computer Festival is a yearly event in the Silicon Valley that celebrates computer history by featuring speakers from computing's past as well as a hands-on exhibit of old computers and computing artifacts, some dating back over half a century or more. This is the fourth year of the Festival. Speakers this year include Jim Warren, founder and organizer of the West Coast Computer Faire, as well as Larry Tesler, who was at one point Apple's chief scientist and also worked at the prestigious Xerox Palo Alto Research Center during the 1970s. Warren and Tesler will be participating in a roundtable conference on day 1 of the Festival. This year, California Extreme 2000 (http://www.caextreme.org), a classic arcade game show featuring hundreds of classic video games and pinball machines, joins the VCF. The VCF and California Extreme 2000 share the same venue, and discounts will be available at the door for attending both events. Information about the Apple-1 auction can be found at http://www.vintage.org/2000/apple-1.html. General information about the fourth annual Vintage Computer Festival can be found at http://www.vintage.org/. MEDIA CONTACT: Sellam Ismail 925/371.1050 x102 sellam@vintage.org http://www.vintage.org Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jate at uwasa.fi Tue Sep 5 03:33:49 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: <200009041754.KAA90845@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 10:54:48AM -0700 References: <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20000904105238.B991@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <200009041754.KAA90845@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20000905113348.A524@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 10:54:48AM -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: > Jarkko Teppo wrote: > (HP9000 series 550) > > I have yet to figure out a *safe* way to clone the OS to another > > disk for backup. > > I recommend reading the following man pages as a start: osmgr(8), > sdfinit(8), mkrs(8). Follow the "see also" links in the pages for > more info. Will do. > > Having a 9144 or equivalent CS/80 cartridge tape drive (and > cartridges) could be a Good Thing, that's the sort of device that mkrs > wants to build its bootable tape filesystem upon. Yeah, I have a few of those (and a 9145 and a weird 9142 + 7979a) btw, thanks for the article list. It looks like I really have to start looking for those, probably from the reprint service. Meanwhile in HP land: I found a bunch of manuals: HP27110B CIO/HP-IB Interface Card HP 7936/7937 Operating and Installation Manual HP 7957S/7958S/7959S Owner's Manual HP 27110A HP-IB Interface Installation Manual HP 27130B 8-Channel Multiplexer Interface Card Installation Manual HP 7941/7945 Owner's Manual HP 7933 Disc Drive Operator Instructions (I need a new pack btw.) (Cough) Wollongong WIN/TCP for HP 9000 Series 500 manual non HP: Teletype ASR-33 Technical manual Vol 1 & 2 + parts (has blowout pictures and listings) ADM-5 Users Reference Manual ADM-3A Operators Manual Decwriter IV Users Guide Nokia NOP-30 (printing terminal) manual HP 7974A Magnetic Tape Subsystem Operator's Manual + the drive itself!!! Now I just have to figure out how to move the 180 kilograms of steel and air down a long staircase either to a trailer or a van. I think I might have to bribe some guys with beer. I also found the OS tapes and some other stuff. -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Sep 5 04:20:43 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Need bezel for DEC TLZ06-AA Message-ID: <00Sep5.102047bst.46102@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> IIRC the only full-height TLZ06 was the TLZ6L autoloader; the full height TLZ04 was an option on the R400X expansion box though, but it was a proper full height drive and not a half height hiding behind a big bezel! For PC mounting it should slide straight into a standard removeable drive bay and connect to any 8 bit SCSI card, for a uVAX II it'll have to be a hack since the only supported drives in those were TK50/TK70 that connected to their own controller cards (TQK50 and TQK70). The (I think) KFQSA was a v.expensive quad-height QBUS SCSI card but I think it only had external connections.....I can dig out some old books if it'll help. a > -----Original Message----- > From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) [mailto:vaxman@uswest.net] > Sent: 04 September 2000 00:40 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Need bezel for DEC TLZ06-AA > > > > Hi, > > I recently purchased a few DEC TLZ06-AA DAT drives, and they arrived > today. Unfortunately, The bezel on them is the width of a 3.5" drive, > but the height of a half-height 5 1/4" drive. > > Does anyone know where I can get normal 5 1/4" bezel for them? > Any suggestions on how to mount them in a PC and a uVAX II? > > Thanks, > clint > From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Tue Sep 5 08:52:38 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: What kind of tape is this? [+ how can I hack it?] In-Reply-To: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org's message of "Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:13:12 -0500 (CDT)" References: <200009041713.MAA27926@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Is there anyone in _europe_ that could be kind enough to read my 9-track tape? (all postal expenses paid, of course) As last resort I'll ask someone in USA to do it (thanks to the ones that offered!). Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From rivie at teraglobal.com Tue Sep 5 10:26:33 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0D6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > Any DG AOS/VS people out there? > >I helped evaluate the Eclipse around 1980 when our local Indiana Unversity >campus was trying to break free from our total dependence on the centralized >IU computing factilities in Bloomington and Indianapolis. It had a lot to >offer, but we like Pr1me better, and went that route. > >IIRC, the Eclipse architecture was an evolution of the DG Nova architecture. >It's development is the subject of Tracy Kidder's "Soul of a New Machine", >a book I'd highly recommend reading. I did a bit of work with an Eclipse C300 and an Eclipse S250 many years ago. Yes, the Eclipse is a development of the Nova; it looked to me like they had redefined useless/invalid Nova instructions to come up with the new Eclipse instructions. The MV series is the extension of the Eclipse to 32 bits. I don't know a lot about the MV (the group I was involved with decided to stick with the VAX, so I never got any technical info on the MV). -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 5 11:25:11 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <39AFEEF7.19669.1BC65B1@localhost> Message-ID: <200009051625.JAA28458@civic.hal.com> Hi I need some pinouts for some old TTL? or DTL? parts These are in my computer and I think one of them is causing a failure. These are all TI parts: SN15846 SN15849 SN15861 SN15863 I am especially interested in the SN15861 and SN15849. Thanks Dwight From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Sep 5 12:00:33 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: Apple-1 Auction at VCF 4.0 Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0EB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > The owner of the computer, Ray Borrill, operated a chain of > computer stores in the Midwest in the late 70's, one of the first > in the nation. This particular Apple-1 was one of 15 units > ordered directly from Steve Jobs. It was used as a display model > and was never sold. Borrill decided to hold onto it through the > years for posterity. Borrill, now retired, has decided that it's > time to pass the machine on to someone else who will continue to > appreciate it as he did. Fascinating... Ray's Apple was the first and only one I ever used; when I saw it, it had what appeared to be a Radio Shack transformer supplying power to it. Just a bare board, and ISTR it was connected to a TV set via an RF-modulator, and was running Spacewar. Could be wrong, Spacewar may have been running on one of the other machines Ray had at the Bloomington, IN store of his DataDomain chain. To anyone who'll be there, bidding on this, please bid vigorously; Ray has health problems and really, really needs the money. My SOL would never have made it to adulthood without his help. -dq From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Sep 5 13:01:09 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: <20000905113348.A524@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> References: <200009041754.KAA90845@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20000904105238.B991@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <200009041754.KAA90845@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000905130109.3f6f29dc@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:33 AM 9/5/00 +0300, you wrote: > >Meanwhile in HP land: >I found a bunch of manuals: > >HP27110B CIO/HP-IB Interface Card >HP 27110A HP-IB Interface Installation Manual >HP 27130B 8-Channel Multiplexer Interface Card Installation Manual The HP 27xxx part numbers all seem to be used for HP 1000 parts. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Sep 5 12:37:04 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: New Toy In-Reply-To: <001401c016bf$d6bf4dc0$76701fd1@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000905123704.3d87e0ba@mailhost.intellistar.net> Any test leads that fit should work fine. I have a manual for a Fluke 8020A if it will help. Joe At 05:31 PM 9/4/00 -0500, you wrote: >Picked up a FLUKE 8000A Digital Multimeter (92270) at the yard for a >couple dollars. Seems to power up but no leads came with it. No doc's >either, can I use some Radio Shack test leads with this unit ? >John Keys > > From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 5 12:27:04 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:21 2005 Subject: New Toy In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000904193921.0099a880@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <200009051727.KAA28511@civic.hal.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > At 17:31 04-09-2000 -0500, you wrote: > > >Picked up a FLUKE 8000A Digital Multimeter (92270) at the yard for a > >couple dollars. Seems to power up but no leads came with it. No doc's > >either, can I use some Radio Shack test leads with this unit ? > > You can use anything that has banana plugs on it. Personally, though, I'd > buy the nice silicone wire and the probe parts and make my own leads. Hi I you live in the silicon valley, Halted had a bunch of nice test lead sets. These look like they were made for military in that they are sealed in those paper/aluminum/plastic bags. They include all kinds of screw-in attachments. ( If they are not all sold out ) Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 5 14:30:35 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <200009051625.JAA28458@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Sep 5, 0 09:25:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 822 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000905/67675fa2/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 5 15:51:29 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: beginer VAX In-Reply-To: <467.282T2139T10124231rachael_@gmx.net> from "Jacob Dahl Pind" at Sep 04, 2000 04:52:42 PM Message-ID: <200009052051.NAA18222@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I`m having the opportunity to buy a VAXstation 4000 VLC, > would anyone recomment it, as a "my first VAX" ? > Or should I go for another model ? > > Regads Jacob Dahl Pind This is exactly the machine I'd recommend as a first VAX!!! Here is why: 1. Up to 24MB RAM using 4MB 72-pin True Parity SIMMs 2. Room for one 1" High 3.5" HD (mine has a 2GB drive) 3. 50-pin High Density external SCSI connector 4. The Size of the case!!! This box is so small you don't have to let it's size bother you Seriously this is currently the best first VAX you can get, while 24MB of RAM might not seem like a lot under OpenVMS/VAX it's plenty. It's faster than the commonly available VAXstation 3100 models, and way faster than the MicroVAX II class machines. The one down side is you will need an external SCSI CD-ROM that supports 512-byte blocks in order to load OpenVMS on it. Zane From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue Sep 5 15:55:03 2000 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: DG guy Message-ID: <200009052055.QAA03291@swordfin.cs.unc.edu> Coincidentally, I've got mail here from a DG-guy looking for other DG preservationists. The appropriate bits follow. I'm sure he'd love to hear from all interested parties. Cheers, Bill. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | To: History Preservation Buffs | | In a little over 30+ years Data General has gone from exciting startup | computer company, to number two minicomputer company, to almost a footnote | in our memories. The recent buyout by EMC has effectively closed the door | on any corporate interest in saving this important part of computer history. | | A recent increase in 16-bit Nova and Eclipse activity(!) and has made us | decide to split off a separate web site - www.SimuLogics.com - to try to | deal with these situation. The intent is to salvage, restore, preserve and | archive all of the 16-bit Nova, Eclipse and compatible hardware, software | and documentation possible. As part of this effort we have donated most of | our own DG systems to the various museums, educational institutes and | collectors. We are also transferring all manuals and software to CDROM to | preserve this heritage. | | Various clients and vendors have also supported this effort by providing | hardware, software and documentation that we are transferring to CDROM for | archival and historical purposes. | | The www.SimuLogics.com web site's nostalgia section is planned to be the | starting point for an expanded area for this highlight in computer history. | | Now I'm scrounging trying to find any and all Nova- and Eclipse-type stuff | to resurrect, restore and run, and am seeking any Nova/Eclipse/RDOS/AOS | hardware/software/documentation that could be preserved - any items that | might be even loaned for testing and/or archival purposes would be | appreciated. Also, any good tidbits or other such stuff would be great to | include in the triva section for posterity. | | And third-party DG look alikes are also being sought. Point 4, Bytronix, | IDP and others were important sub-markets within the DG area along with | third-party operating systems such as MICOS, BITS, VMOS. | | And site comments/ridicule/suggestions are always welcome! | | Bruce Ray | bkr@SimuLogics.com | www.SimuLogics.com | | Parent company: | | Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc. | P O Box 3581 | Boulder, Colorado 80307-3581 | USA | vox: (303) 466-7717 | fax: (303) 465-5780 | bkr@WildHareComputers.com | www.WildHareComputers.com ... and ... | P S I wrote some of the Keronix system software (KMOS) and other stuff | for Keronix in '73 and '74, and Doug Chadwick wrote an IRIS BASIC system | for them (called BITS). I loved my personal IDP 16 with light blue case | and red LEDs and could perhaps answer other questions you might have. I | think you responded to a thread on the San Gabriel Keronix question... From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 5 15:57:40 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200009052057.NAA28708@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > Hi > > I need some pinouts for some old TTL? or DTL? parts > > These are in my computer and I think one of them is > > causing a failure. These are all TI parts: > > > > SN15846 > > SN15849 > > SN15861 > > SN15863 > > THose are DTL chips. The generic number is the last 3 digits, 846, 849, > 861, 863. > > The 846 is a quad 2-input NAND gate, pinout as the 7400. I've found this > one in some old service manuals, so I am pretty sure of the pinout. > > I also have a somewhat untrustworthy 'equivalents list' which confirms > that the 846 is similar to the 740. It says that the 849 is also a quad > 2-input NAND with the same pinout, that an 861 is dual 4-input NAND, > pinout as the 7420, and that the 863 is a triple 3-input NAND gate, > pinout as the 7410. > > I would treat that latter data with some suspicion, but it may be a start. > > -tony Hi Tony I received a pdf from one of the others on the list. The pdf shows that the 861 is not exactly like the 7420, in that the unused pins of the 7420 are for gate expansion on the 861. The circuit that uses the part, I think is failing, doesn't use these pins. The biggest potential problem I see is that the original designer used two outputs tied together. This means that the other output has to pull it down as well. I tried a 74LS20 and it didn't work but I think it is just that the 74LS20's have a strong pull-up. I'll try to locate a 7420 and give it a try. I've also found a part supplier that stocks old DTL and even RTL parts. I haven't contacted them yet but if the 7420 doesn't work I'll give them a try. They have these in the Motorola part numbers. For others looking for old parts, they are: http://lansdale.com/~lansdale/index.html I'm sure these will be expensive but then what the heck. Thanks for the reply Dwight From rachael_ at gmx.net Tue Sep 5 17:15:26 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: eprom 23c256 Message-ID: <561.283T1302T13952746rachael_@gmx.net> I have a problem with the eprom used in a IBM 5160 it`s labelede 23c256 so I suppose that I need to build somekind of adaptor before I can read it out with my eprom burner. Does anyone know where to find the pinout of such a thing ? Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From rachael_ at gmx.net Tue Sep 5 09:49:54 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: beginer WAX Message-ID: <795.283T2724T9494080rachael_@gmx.net> Hi >It is a nice VAX, and it has everything onboard. No option slots AFAIK. >It is certanly a good starter-model, but keep in mind that you can just >run OpenVMS or Ultrix on it. No NetBSD (at the moment). >But OpenVMS is a very very nice system too. >How much is it?! With or without monitor? RAM? Disc? It has 8mb ram and a harddrive, the owner wantede 500 Dkkr for it. I just lookeed at netbsd and it seems that of netbsd 1.5 the Vaxstation 4000 vlc is supportede. Regards, Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Sep 5 16:50:14 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: PDP / VAX FS: Austin, TX Message-ID: <20000905165014.V19404@mrbill.net> If interested in any of this stuff, please mail me off-list. I'm running out of room so some of this has to go.. (make offer) PDP-11/02 in BA11-VA chassis, with: RS232 console serial card RAM card RX01 disk controller card CPU card (not at home now, dont have the exact numbers) Pictures: http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-front.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back-closeup-1.jpg Local buyers: will throw in the dual-unit RX01-compatible floppy drive unit (its WAAAY too heavy to ship): http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-switches.jpg and an original VT102 with manual: http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp1102.jpg I've also got a VAXstation 4000-VLC with 16mb and a VS3100-M38 with 16mb that I'll let go dirt cheap. Anyway, mail me off-list if anyone is interested in this stuff - I've become too busy to work with it lately and it needs a good caring home. Also have a (dunno how old it is) Livingston Portmaster IRX 2-port console/terminal server/router. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From richard at idcomm.com Tue Sep 5 17:02:22 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: eprom 23c256 References: <561.283T1302T13952746rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <000b01c01784$f87ae760$0500c0a8@winbook> You should have no problem reading this ROM with your EPROM programmer at all. It's a masked ROM rather than being an eraseable, and the number indicates it's exactly that. It should be pin-compatible with the 27C256. DO NOT OPERATE ON THIS PART WITH VPP ENABLED! These ROMs don't like that and may break! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Dahl Pind To: classic computers Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 4:15 PM Subject: eprom 23c256 > I have a problem with the eprom used in a IBM 5160 > it`s labelede 23c256 so I suppose that I need to > build somekind of adaptor before I can read it out > with my eprom burner. Does anyone know where to > find the pinout of such a thing ? > > Regards Jacob Dahl Pind > > Public Pgp key available on request > -------------------------------------------------- > = IF this computer is with us now... = > =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= > = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = > -------------------------------------------------- > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 5 17:13:51 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: New Find Message-ID: <007901c01789$896aa540$2d721fd1@default> Picked up a Sun SPARCstation 370 today, looks like some cards are missing has several open slots. Will give more details as I start working with it. PS. To Mr. Lemay went by the U today and it was empty ? What happen to all those items you saw there ? John Keys From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 5 17:45:54 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need bezel for DEC TLZ06-AA In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Sep 03, 2000 05:14:46 PM Message-ID: <200009052245.PAA02710@shell1.aracnet.com> > I recently purchased a few DEC TLZ06-AA DAT drives, and they arrived > today. Unfortunately, The bezel on them is the width of a 3.5" drive, > but the height of a half-height 5 1/4" drive. > > Does anyone know where I can get normal 5 1/4" bezel for them? > Any suggestions on how to mount them in a PC and a uVAX II? I don't think you're going to be able to get a regular bezel for them, your best bet would be to take a piece of plastic and fabricate something to go over the existing one. Mounting in the PC would be fairly easy I'd think. Just get a 3.5" HD mounting kit for a 5.25" bay, the same thing would take care of the uVAX II if you've got the sled for it to go on. The TLZ06 is a nice drive, I've got one (with the 5.25" bezel) in my PWS433au, and OpenVMS loves it. Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Sep 5 18:50:41 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: March 1984 issue of HP Journal ? In-Reply-To: <20000904105238.B991@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> References: <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> <20000901145024.A759@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <3.0.1.16.20000901094807.33c79f1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000905185041.352ff904@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:52 AM 9/4/00 +0300, you wrote: >On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 09:48:07AM -0500, Joe wrote: >> Jarkko, >> >> I have a big collection of HP Journals but I don't have that issue. >> However you used to be able to order reprints from HP. They should tell how >> on their HP Journal website. > >I guess I have to check. Are the journals normally worth the reprint >price ? Yes. The one reprint that I saw cost $12 and you couldn't tell it from an original. > >> >> >Any other 9000/550 trivia gratiously accepted as it's quite >> >difficult to find information about them. >> > >> >> I talked to one the HP 9825 developers. He told me that the HP 9845 >> were supposed to be replaced by the 9000/5xx machines but that HP had a lot >> of trouble with them and didn't built very many of them. >> > >Through some websearching I found one other 550. I have two of them, >dual-processor, >5MB memory. Very nice. I have some really *really* >poor quality pictures at >http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/kuvat/ >I solemnly promise to get a few better pics soon:) > >Does anybody have any idea how many were built ? I have no idea but they're a lot rarer than a 9845 and it's rare. > >I have yet to figure out a *safe* way to clone the OS to another >disk for backup. > >Still looking for a complete list of all HP products through all time:) Buy all the catalogs! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Joe >-- >Jarkko Teppo >jate@uwasa.fi > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 5 17:47:29 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? Message-ID: <004601c0178c$850b8980$75109a8d@ajp166> > I received a pdf from one of the others on the list. The pdf shows >that the 861 is not exactly like the 7420, in that the unused pins >of the 7420 are for gate expansion on the 861. The circuit that uses the >part, I think is failing, doesn't use these pins. The biggest potential >problem I see is that the original designer used two outputs tied >together. This means that the other output has to pull it down >as well. I tried a 74LS20 and it didn't work but I think it is >just that the 74LS20's have a strong pull-up. I'll try to locate >a 7420 and give it a try. I've also found a part supplier that No No NO! TTL aka 7420 has an active pullup and one output will fight another. Those parts are RTL/DTL and the ouputs are either open collector (is there a pullup resistor?) or have an internal Pullup. So if you going to try TTL use parts that are open collector like 7401 or 7403... Allison >stocks old DTL and even RTL parts. I haven't contacted them >yet but if the 7420 doesn't work I'll give them a try. They >have these in the Motorola part numbers. For others looking for old >parts, they are: > >http://lansdale.com/~lansdale/index.html > > I'm sure these will be expensive but then what the heck. >Thanks for the reply >Dwight > > From donm at cts.com Tue Sep 5 17:59:33 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need bezel for DEC TLZ06-AA In-Reply-To: <200009052245.PAA02710@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > I recently purchased a few DEC TLZ06-AA DAT drives, and they arrived > > today. Unfortunately, The bezel on them is the width of a 3.5" drive, > > but the height of a half-height 5 1/4" drive. > > > > Does anyone know where I can get normal 5 1/4" bezel for them? > > Any suggestions on how to mount them in a PC and a uVAX II? > > I don't think you're going to be able to get a regular bezel for them, your > best bet would be to take a piece of plastic and fabricate something to go > over the existing one. > > Mounting in the PC would be fairly easy I'd think. Just get a 3.5" HD > mounting kit for a 5.25" bay, the same thing would take care of the uVAX II > if you've got the sled for it to go on. I did something similar a while back in order to mount a different tape drive. The kit had a blank panel that I cut the center out of so that it would bridge the gap on either end between drive and case. IIRC, I also needed to relocate some of the screw holes in the adapter to match the drive involved. - don > The TLZ06 is a nice drive, I've got one (with the 5.25" bezel) in my > PWS433au, and OpenVMS loves it. > > Zane > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 5 17:58:08 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: eprom 23c256 In-Reply-To: <561.283T1302T13952746rachael_@gmx.net> from "Jacob Dahl Pind" at Sep 5, 0 10:44:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1131 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000905/4693c257/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 5 17:51:53 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <200009052057.NAA28708@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Sep 5, 0 01:57:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1762 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000905/d6294628/attachment.ksh From sipke at wxs.nl Tue Sep 5 19:17:28 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? References: <200009051625.JAA28458@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <02c901c01797$d8255640$030101ac@boll.casema.net> This is from the National Semiconductor TTL/DTL databook from 1976 (Radio Shack edition) NS lists them as DM946, 949,961,963 being direct replacements for the SNxxxxx types These are DTL of either the low power type (6k pullup) or the normal type (2k pullup) The manual does not state the partnumbers that are 6k or 2k but this must be evident from your circuit. Pinouts DM 946,949 (Same pinout) Quad two-input NAND Gate1 IN = 1, 2 / OUT=3 Gate2 IN = 4,5 / OUT=6 Gate3 IN = 9,10 / OUT=8 Gate4 IN = 12,13/ OUT=11 DM961 Dual 4-input NAND with extension input (E) Gate1 IN=1,2,4,5, / E=3 / OUT=6 Gate2 IN=9,10,12,13 / E=11/ OUT=8 DM963 Tripple 3-input NAND Gate1 IN=1,2,13 / OUT=12 Gate2 IN=3,4,5 / OUT=6 Gate3 IN=9,10,11/ OUT=8 I suspect lead-7 being the GND and lead-14 being the Vcc but I will not vouch for that. It will be obvious from the circuit. Good luck Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 6:25 PM Subject: Need help on old parts?? > Hi > I need some pinouts for some old TTL? or DTL? parts > These are in my computer and I think one of them is > causing a failure. These are all TI parts: > > SN15846 > SN15849 > SN15861 > SN15863 > > I am especially interested in the > SN15861 and SN15849. > Thanks > Dwight > From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 5 18:36:57 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200009052336.QAA28857@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > No. Please don't wire-AND normal TTL outputs -- it won't work properly > all the time. It's marginal (and can damage the TTL chips involved). > > There is an open-collector 4-input NAND in the TTL line. It's the 7422 > (yes, I had to look it up). You could use one of those, along with a 2k2 > (or thereabouts) pull-up resistor from the output to Vcc. Don't ask me > where to find a 7422, though. Hi Looks like the 7422 is what I need. I was thinking this myself. The spec sheet I got says that it has an internal 2K pullup. The other part also has this so it should work without an additional resistor. I can always add one but I would exect it will be more than fast enough for this old machine. I hope I can get to my local surplus shop before they close. Thanks From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 5 18:39:30 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <02c901c01797$d8255640$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <200009052339.QAA28862@civic.hal.com> "Sipke de Wal" wrote: > > I suspect lead-7 being the GND and lead-14 being the Vcc > but I will not vouch for that. It will be obvious from the circuit. Hi Yes, that is the correct voltages. It is good to get the National numbers as well. Thanks Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 5 19:27:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <200009052336.QAA28857@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Sep 5, 0 04:36:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1065 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000906/ccf526f5/attachment.ksh From cnelson at dallas.net Tue Sep 5 20:07:05 2000 From: cnelson at dallas.net (Chris Nelson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems References: <200009052013.PAA44059@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <001901c0179e$c5f45690$4605d9d1@cnelson> I am interested in Motorola 88k based systems like the Data General AViiON and related information. I have a small website www.m88k.org and wish to expand it's content. Thanks. Chris Nelson cnelson@dallas.net webmaster@m88k.org From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Sep 5 20:29:27 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? Message-ID: <200009060129.VAA18100@drs-esg.com> > From: Dwight Elvey > > Hi > I need some pinouts for some old TTL? or DTL? parts > These are in my computer and I think one of them is > causing a failure. These are all TI parts: > > I am especially interested in the > SN15861 and SN15849. > If you can say you are with (or are) a company you can get the datasheets from http://www.freetradezone.com If you can't and haven't gotten the information email me and I will get it for you. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Sep 5 20:47:44 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems References: <200009052013.PAA44059@opal.tseinc.com> <001901c0179e$c5f45690$4605d9d1@cnelson> Message-ID: <008c01c017a4$73de5580$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nelson" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 10:37 AM Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems > I am interested in Motorola 88k based systems like the Data General AViiON > and related information. I have one of those, still haven't been able to do much with it, lacking a monitor and mouse, but it seems to go ok. > I have a small website www.m88k.org and wish to expand it's content. Ok, will take a look thanks.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From ryan at inc.net Tue Sep 5 21:08:14 2000 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems References: <200009052013.PAA44059@opal.tseinc.com> <001901c0179e$c5f45690$4605d9d1@cnelson> <008c01c017a4$73de5580$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <39B5A70E.B6E961F@inc.net> Neat. I'd love to get my hands on a Moto 88k system... thanks for the web resource, Ryan Brooks ryan@inc.net Geoff Roberts wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Nelson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 10:37 AM > Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems > > > I am interested in Motorola 88k based systems like the Data General > AViiON > > and related information. > > I have one of those, still haven't been able to do much with it, lacking > a monitor and mouse, but > it seems to go ok. > > > I have a small website www.m88k.org and wish to expand it's content. > > Ok, will take a look thanks.... > > Cheers > > Geoff Roberts > Computer Systems Manager > Saint Mark's College > Port Pirie, > South Australia > geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au > netcafe@tell.net.au > ICQ: 1970476 From claudew at funcow.com Mon Sep 4 21:10:51 2000 From: claudew at funcow.com (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? Message-ID: <39B4562B.3CA5C423@funcow.com> Hi I know very little about Rs6000's and IBM AIX... Got this for free...80M Ram, 2 SCSI drives, no keyboard or monitor. Sabine video card and token ring card. Connected Wyse 60 to Modu-10 serial port connector (made cable and connector - such fun) and worked when I got it with AIX already on HDs. Did not have root and HD was a mess so took drives out and used them for something else. Was told AIX needed for this machine was specific version and had to be installed from IBM tape drive ou IBM CDROM or it would never install...tried a "AIX 4.2.1 entry server" on cdrom with Toshiba and other non-ibm SCSI cdroms and never booted or installed doing proper install procedure. Cdrom could be seen and read when old AIX was on there and cdrom connected to scsi chain...I know Sabine card not supported in 4.x Aix anyways... It's micro-channel arch. I think there is no Linux for this... Now machine sits in corner with vintage pc collection taking up more and more space. It's either gotta do something usefull besides sitting on it's side...or will be put up for trade/sale...I really don't wanna bother selling this...I am trying to limit collection of vintage PCs to "home pc's" so this one won't stay for collection even if now about 10-11 years old... Anybody any ideas or suggestions??? Is it worth it? Thanks for reading Claude From richard at idcomm.com Tue Sep 5 21:11:38 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? References: <200009060129.VAA18100@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <001501c017a7$cb4d6c40$0500c0a8@winbook> Depending on whether you want to maintain just the functionality or the authenticity of your computer too, you might consider using small GALs to replace various logic blocks in your circuit. This will impact timing, making some signals arrive WAY earlier than they might with the OC DTL/RTL/TTL stuff you've got now. If you've a good sense of how it's done, you might well be able to make the timing work, however. Back when this stuff was used, the speeds of today's GALs was unheard of for logic other than ECL. Logic design techniques were used, which would get one fired these days, and you never know when you're going to see some of that stuff. If you have a problem getting a circuit, you CAN build your own in a GAL, and make the outputs tristate and enabled from their own logic, so they behave as OC. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: David Gesswein To: Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 7:29 PM Subject: Re: Need help on old parts?? > > From: Dwight Elvey > > > > Hi > > I need some pinouts for some old TTL? or DTL? parts > > These are in my computer and I think one of them is > > causing a failure. These are all TI parts: > > > > I am especially interested in the > > SN15861 and SN15849. > > > If you can say you are with (or are) a company you can get the datasheets > from http://www.freetradezone.com > > If you can't and haven't gotten the information email me and I will > get it for you. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Sep 5 21:41:53 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? In-Reply-To: <39B4562B.3CA5C423@funcow.com> from Claude at "Sep 4, 0 10:10:51 pm" Message-ID: <200009060241.TAA05138@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Check the IBM web site. I think there's something there about getting the root password on a machine you have console access to (which is why no AIX machine should be left physically unattended :-). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- You cannot have a science without measurement. -- R. W. Hamming ------------ From claudew at funcow.com Mon Sep 4 21:56:20 2000 From: claudew at funcow.com (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Got Trillium Talkto 616 PBX kit in vintage computer lot...anybody familliar with this unit? Message-ID: <39B460D4.C7B224E@funcow.com> Hi I know this is slightly off subject but I now know this group has such a variety of people with experience in such different field of electronics...I work with a team of 40 electronics techs for a living but none of these have worked a lot with phone/pbx stuff... Got this whole PBX kit in a lot of old/vintage computers I bought. Cost came out to about $15...with 6 hands-free phones...I am thinking of installing it in my 3 floor house...I have 6 clean hand-free phones, the ksu, io cable for stations... I have the manuals for the phones but not for the ksu. I wired up one phone with the ksu and everything seems to work...I suppose the KSU has some default settings...but I really wanna get my hands on the KSU manual...ksu has dip switches with PROGRAM next to them...anybody ever work with one of these or have the KSU manual?...Anybody got one of these pbx's in a house and wanna gimmie pointers for setup/install? Thanks for reading Claude From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 5 21:49:28 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? In-Reply-To: <200009060241.TAA05138@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Sep 05, 2000 07:41:53 PM Message-ID: <200009060249.TAA03276@shell1.aracnet.com> > Check the IBM web site. I think there's something there about getting > the root password on a machine you have console access to (which is > why no AIX machine should be left physically unattended :-). Well... Considering that on just about any system that you've got physical access to you can get around the root/system/whatever password... :^) On some systems even with access it's difficult, on others it's very easy! Zane From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 5 21:13:26 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Got Trillium Talkto 616 PBX kit in vintage computer lot...anybody familliar with this unit? In-Reply-To: <39B460D4.C7B224E@funcow.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Claude wrote: > Got this whole PBX kit in a lot of old/vintage computers I bought. Cost > came out to about $15...with 6 hands-free phones...I am thinking of > installing it in my 3 floor house...I have 6 clean hand-free phones, the > ksu, io cable for stations... I have the manuals for the phones but not > for the ksu. I wired up one phone with the ksu and everything seems to > work...I suppose the KSU has some default settings...but I really wanna > get my hands on the KSU manual...ksu has dip switches with PROGRAM next > to them...anybody ever work with one of these or have the KSU > manual? I can check at my office and see if we have a manual for that KSU in our library. I know the Trillium name but the model doesn't sound familiar at all to me. >...Anybody got one of these pbx's in a house and wanna gimmie > pointers for setup/install? Of course you'll want to wire everything in s star configuration, much like a 10baseT network. Go out to your local Graybar (big telephone and electrical supply place) and get yourself a punchdown block (and get a punchdown tool while you're at it). This is what you'll want to connect all your "homeruns" to, and then cross connect over to your PBX ports. You'll also want to take your telco lines and punch them down on the block, and then cross connect to the telco ports on the phone system (this will allow any phone to grab one of however many lines you have). E-mail me offline if you need more tips. It's all pretty basic though. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mlnealey at earthlink.net Tue Sep 5 22:13:01 2000 From: mlnealey at earthlink.net (Mike Nealey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? References: <39B4562B.3CA5C423@funcow.com> Message-ID: <39B5B63C.5E061E7B@earthlink.net> Hi Claude, You are correct. You must use an IBM CDROM or Tape to install the OS. Once the OS is installed just about any CDROM will work. You should be able to use any version of AIX on that box, although, as you guessed, some items might not be supported. And no, no Linux for this box. Mike N. Claude wrote: > Hi > > I know very little about Rs6000's and IBM AIX... > > Got this for free...80M Ram, 2 SCSI drives, no keyboard or monitor. > Sabine video card and token ring card. Connected Wyse 60 to Modu-10 > serial port connector (made cable and connector - such fun) and worked > when I got it with AIX already on HDs. Did not have root and HD was a > mess so took drives out and used them for something else. > > Was told AIX needed for this machine was specific version and had to be > installed from IBM tape drive ou IBM CDROM or it would never > install...tried a "AIX 4.2.1 entry server" on cdrom with Toshiba and > other non-ibm SCSI cdroms and never booted or installed doing proper > install procedure. Cdrom could be seen and read when old AIX was on > there and cdrom connected to scsi chain...I know Sabine card not > supported in 4.x Aix anyways... > > It's micro-channel arch. I think there is no Linux for this... > > Now machine sits in corner with vintage pc collection taking up more and > more space. It's either gotta do something usefull besides sitting on > it's side...or will be put up for trade/sale...I really don't wanna > bother selling this...I am trying to limit collection of vintage PCs to > "home pc's" so this one won't stay for collection even if now about > 10-11 years old... > > Anybody any ideas or suggestions??? Is it worth it? > > Thanks for reading > Claude From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Sep 6 04:39:34 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? In-Reply-To: <39B4562B.3CA5C423@funcow.com> Message-ID: Hello Claude On 04-Sep-00, you wrote: > Hi > > I know very little about Rs6000's and IBM AIX... > > Got this for free...80M Ram, 2 SCSI drives, no keyboard or monitor. > Sabine video card and token ring card. Connected Wyse 60 to Modu-10 > serial port connector (made cable and connector - such fun) and worked > when I got it with AIX already on HDs. Did not have root and HD was a > mess so took drives out and used them for something else. > > Was told AIX needed for this machine was specific version and had to be > installed from IBM tape drive ou IBM CDROM or it would never > install...tried a "AIX 4.2.1 entry server" on cdrom with Toshiba and > other non-ibm SCSI cdroms and never booted or installed doing proper > install procedure. Cdrom could be seen and read when old AIX was on > there and cdrom connected to scsi chain...I know Sabine card not > supported in 4.x Aix anyways... > > It's micro-channel arch. I think there is no Linux for this... > > Now machine sits in corner with vintage pc collection taking up more and > more space. It's either gotta do something usefull besides sitting on > it's side...or will be put up for trade/sale...I really don't wanna > bother selling this...I am trying to limit collection of vintage PCs to > "home pc's" so this one won't stay for collection even if now about > 10-11 years old... > > Anybody any ideas or suggestions??? Is it worth it? > > Thanks for reading > Claude Might be . . . I think that is a Power PC chip and there is a Linux for PPC, but sold under the Macintosh banner. I have a PPC distro, but it is geared for the PPC card in an Amiga. It's the MCA that stops me -- very expensive expandibility. > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Sep 5 22:55:41 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Link MC70 terminal? Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000905205151.02edee50@208.226.86.10> Hello All, Over the weekend I was offered a free "color DEC terminal" which I _thought_ was a VT340 by the description, so I said "Sure, I'll come over and take it off your hands." but what it was is something called a "Link MC70". This was used with a VAX apparently (even has a DEC keyboard layout with the "Do" key!) , and can also do graphics. The web says it is 4014 compatible (but no ReGIS as far as I can tell). Does anyone know anything about this terminal? It is dual session so I'll probably hang on to it. --Chuck From frederik at freddym.org Wed Sep 6 00:30:15 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: beginer WAX In-Reply-To: <795.283T2724T9494080rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: Hi! > >It is a nice VAX, and it has everything onboard. No option slots AFAIK. > >It is certanly a good starter-model, but keep in mind that you can just > >run OpenVMS or Ultrix on it. No NetBSD (at the moment). > >But OpenVMS is a very very nice system too. > >How much is it?! With or without monitor? RAM? Disc? > It has 8mb ram and a harddrive, the owner wantede 500 Dkkr for it. > I just lookeed at netbsd and it seems that of netbsd 1.5 the Vaxstation > 4000 vlc is supportede. How much is 500 Dkkr in $s ? Look that you can stock up the 8mb a bit. Sorry that I said it isn't supported. I wasn't good informed. Last time I looked through the Supported-Hardware List of NetBSD it wasn't. -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 6 01:23:44 2000 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Link MC70 terminal? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000905205151.02edee50@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I can probably get you a manual, as my company used to sell these beasts. Huge heavy thing, which I am sure didn't support reGIS. I will look at work. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Chuck McManis Sent: 06 September 2000 04:56 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Link MC70 terminal? Hello All, Over the weekend I was offered a free "color DEC terminal" which I _thought_ was a VT340 by the description, so I said "Sure, I'll come over and take it off your hands." but what it was is something called a "Link MC70". This was used with a VAX apparently (even has a DEC keyboard layout with the "Do" key!) , and can also do graphics. The web says it is 4014 compatible (but no ReGIS as far as I can tell). Does anyone know anything about this terminal? It is dual session so I'll probably hang on to it. --Chuck From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Sep 6 03:01:05 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? References: <200009060129.VAA18100@drs-esg.com> <001501c017a7$cb4d6c40$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <03aa01c017d8$9c2f6360$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Or take the oposite road ............. Build your DTL-gates from discrete components Few diodes a few resistors and een less small signal transistors. I''ve posted the basic diagram on my sit http://xgistor.ath.cx/files/ Sipke ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 4:11 AM Subject: Re: Need help on old parts?? > Depending on whether you want to maintain just the functionality or the > authenticity of your computer too, you might consider using small GALs to > replace various logic blocks in your circuit. This will impact timing, > making some signals arrive WAY earlier than they might with the OC > DTL/RTL/TTL stuff you've got now. If you've a good sense of how it's done, > you might well be able to make the timing work, however. Back when this > stuff was used, the speeds of today's GALs was unheard of for logic other > than ECL. Logic design techniques were used, which would get one fired > these days, and you never know when you're going to see some of that stuff. > If you have a problem getting a circuit, you CAN build your own in a GAL, > and make the outputs tristate and enabled from their own logic, so they > behave as OC. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Gesswein > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 7:29 PM > Subject: Re: Need help on old parts?? > > > > > From: Dwight Elvey > > > > > > Hi > > > I need some pinouts for some old TTL? or DTL? parts > > > These are in my computer and I think one of them is > > > causing a failure. These are all TI parts: > > > > > > I am especially interested in the > > > SN15861 and SN15849. > > > > > If you can say you are with (or are) a company you can get the datasheets > > from http://www.freetradezone.com > > > > If you can't and haven't gotten the information email me and I will > > get it for you. > > > > David Gesswein > > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights > > > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 6 05:27:10 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: NCR Sparc Slate, other scrap In-Reply-To: References: <200009052057.NAA28708@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Sep 5, 0 01:57:40 pm Message-ID: One of the other guys at a scrap place nabbed a NCR Sparc, some kind of slate/pen computer. Various forms of GO software etc., but I didn't get to play around with it at all. So far no sign of a power supply, but otherwise fairly complete. Lucky dog also grabbed a mac WGS95. Zycad box got open up, maybe looted. Looks VME inside, still a very pretty chassis outside. My big item was a Sun GDM 20E20 monitor, now I just need to find the SVGA adapter for it. Kinda sad a dozen Mac SE computers came in and went straight to the junk area. From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Wed Sep 6 05:25:48 2000 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp Message-ID: <002a01c017ec$d46ce180$dadf8490@tp.nsw.bigpond.net.au> I have a new find that doesn't seem to be documented on the Web so far. It's a "Pied Piper" by Semi-Tech Electronics Corporation of Menlo Park, California. It seems to work perfectly and came with a little documentation and a CP/M boot disk. It is a portable, a little larger than a C64 with a carry handle, a cover for the keyboard and a diskette drive built in. Docs are copyright 1982. Has a composite monitor connector that I'm using. I'd appreciate someone putting this into a bit more context for me. Thanks, Hans From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Sep 6 05:53:18 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp Message-ID: <00Sep6.115326bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> If nobody else can come up with anything I've got a copy of Personal Computer News at home which ran an article on the Pied Piper when it was released so I'll be able to give you the full rundown. a > -----Original Message----- > From: Olminkhof [mailto:jolminkh@nsw.bigpond.net.au] > Sent: 06 September 2000 11:51 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp > > > I have a new find that doesn't seem to be documented on the > Web so far. > It's a "Pied Piper" by Semi-Tech Electronics Corporation of > Menlo Park, > California. > > It seems to work perfectly and came with a little > documentation and a CP/M > boot disk. It is a portable, a little larger than a C64 with > a carry handle, > a cover for the keyboard and a diskette drive built in. Docs > are copyright > 1982. Has a composite monitor connector that I'm using. > > I'd appreciate someone putting this into a bit more context for me. > > Thanks, > Hans > > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 6 08:11:27 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? In-Reply-To: from Gary Hildebrand at "Sep 6, 2000 03:39:34 am" Message-ID: <200009061311.JAA06155@bg-tc-ppp526.monmouth.com> > > I know very little about Rs6000's and IBM AIX... Which model 7012 was it 530/550/580/590? It should work from Toshiba CD's since the IBM used Toshiba's. The one issue is that they classed the different AIX boxes differently and some of them needed different CD's -- based on system size and type. I'm wondering if the CD was set for 512 byte sectors or 2048 byte sectors? Also, what SCSI ID did you use for the CDROM? (a bit rusty at AIX -- but I used to run some 7012/550's, 580's and a 590. BTW -- I don't think you can install AIX 4.x from anything other than CD... Bill > > > > Got this for free...80M Ram, 2 SCSI drives, no keyboard or monitor. > > Sabine video card and token ring card. Connected Wyse 60 to Modu-10 > > serial port connector (made cable and connector - such fun) and worked > > when I got it with AIX already on HDs. Did not have root and HD was a > > mess so took drives out and used them for something else. > > > > Thanks for reading > > Claude > > Might be . . . I think that is a Power PC chip and there is a Linux for PPC, > but sold under the Macintosh banner. I have a PPC distro, but it is geared > for the PPC card in an Amiga. > > It's the MCA that stops me -- very expensive expandibility. > > > Regards > -- > Gary Hildebrand > Box 6184 > St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 > > 816-662-2612 > or > > ghldbrd@ccp.com > > > -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 6 09:06:13 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? In-Reply-To: <200009060249.TAA03276@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Sep 5, 0 07:49:28 pm" Message-ID: <200009061406.HAA15260@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Check the IBM web site. I think there's something there about getting > > the root password on a machine you have console access to (which is > > why no AIX machine should be left physically unattended :-). > > Well... Considering that on just about any system that you've got physical > access to you can get around the root/system/whatever password... :^) On > some systems even with access it's difficult, on others it's very easy! Well, my point was that IBM actually gives out directions for doing so :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- When in doubt, use brute force. -- Ken Thompson ---------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 6 09:08:20 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? In-Reply-To: from Gary Hildebrand at "Sep 6, 0 03:39:34 am" Message-ID: <200009061408.HAA14766@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Might be . . . I think that is a Power PC chip and there is a Linux for PPC, > but sold under the Macintosh banner. I have a PPC distro, but it is geared > for the PPC card in an Amiga. Not necessarily -- it could be the old POWER architecture. There is no Linux for that, at least that I'm aware of. I run AIX 4.1.4 on this Apple Network Server 500, which is itself a PPC 604e. LinuxPPC is *kind of* supported on this platform -- I hear it still has some X issues. Never mind, I love SMIT always. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is a tremendous Mitzvah to be happy always! -- Reb. Nachman ------------- From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed Sep 6 10:43:04 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp References: <00Sep6.115326bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <004101c01819$25bd8400$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Graham" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 4:53 AM Subject: RE: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp > If nobody else can come up with anything I've got a copy of Personal > Computer News at home which ran an article on the Pied Piper when it was > released so I'll be able to give you the full rundown. > > a > I'd appreciate you posting whatever you can find - I have a Pied Piper too, but no info at all. Not even a boot disk (Oh Hans ... ) Mark. From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 6 09:53:34 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp In-Reply-To: <002a01c017ec$d46ce180$dadf8490@tp.nsw.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Olminkhof wrote: > I have a new find that doesn't seem to be documented on the Web so far. > It's a "Pied Piper" by Semi-Tech Electronics Corporation of Menlo Park, > California. > > It seems to work perfectly and came with a little documentation and a CP/M > boot disk. It is a portable, a little larger than a C64 with a carry handle, > a cover for the keyboard and a diskette drive built in. Docs are copyright > 1982. Has a composite monitor connector that I'm using. By all means, post a picture! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From elvey at hal.com Wed Sep 6 11:34:50 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <03aa01c017d8$9c2f6360$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <200009061634.JAA03977@civic.hal.com> "Sipke de Wal" wrote: > Or take the oposite road ............. > > Build your DTL-gates from discrete components > Few diodes a few resistors and een less small signal > transistors. > > I''ve posted the basic diagram on my sit > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files/ > > Sipke Hi All Thanks for all of the suggestions. I located a 7422 and put that in. My Nicolet is now running like a new machine again. While it isn't an original DTL, the date code on the part I used is older than the other parts on the board. I'm not the type to get excited about matching original parts. Operation of the machine is really more important to me. I'll make a note in my log and if some future owner finds it annoying, he can put a DTL into it. I have more fun playing with these old paper tapes and finding out what the software does. Dwight From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Sep 6 13:26:11 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? References: <200009060129.VAA18100@drs-esg.com> <001501c017a7$cb4d6c40$0500c0a8@winbook> <03aa01c017d8$9c2f6360$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <03bd01c0182f$efc0e6a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I've corrected an error in the DTL-drawing, the right circuit is now avaible at the aforementioned site Sipke ----- Original Message ----- From: Sipke de Wal To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 10:01 AM Subject: Re: Need help on old parts?? > Or take the oposite road ............. > > Build your DTL-gates from discrete components > Few diodes a few resistors and een less small signal > transistors. > > I''ve posted the basic diagram on my sit > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files/ > > Sipke > From sean at techcare.com Wed Sep 6 13:54:07 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:22 2005 Subject: PDP / VAX FS: Austin, TX References: <20000905165014.V19404@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <001801c01833$d64ea190$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradford" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 5:50 PM Subject: PDP / VAX FS: Austin, TX > If interested in any of this stuff, please mail me off-list. I'm running > out of room so some of this has to go.. > > (make offer) > PDP-11/02 in BA11-VA chassis, with: > RS232 console serial card > RAM card > RX01 disk controller card > CPU card > (not at home now, dont have the exact numbers) > Pictures: > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-front.jpg > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back.jpg > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back-closeup-1.jpg > Local buyers: will throw in the dual-unit RX01-compatible floppy drive > unit (its WAAAY too heavy to ship): > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-switches.jpg > and an original VT102 with manual: > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp1102.jpg > > I've also got a VAXstation 4000-VLC with 16mb and a > VS3100-M38 with 16mb that I'll let go dirt cheap. > Anyway, mail me off-list if anyone is interested in > this stuff - I've become too busy to work with it > lately and it needs a good caring home. > > Also have a (dunno how old it is) Livingston Portmaster IRX 2-port > console/terminal server/router. > > Bill > > -- > +-------------------\ /-----------------+ > | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | > | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | > | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | > +-------------------/ \-----------------+ > Hi! I saw your post on the classiccmp mailing list, and I'm definately interested in purchasing the PDP-11/02, the VAXstation 3100, and the Livingston terminal server. Please let me know if any/all of it is available, and if you're willing to ship it to the Kalamazoo, Michigan area. I'm willing to pay whatever's fair for the cost of equipment plus shipping. Thanks, -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) (sean@techcare.com) From sean at techcare.com Wed Sep 6 14:13:02 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: PDP / VAX FS: Austin, TX References: <20000905165014.V19404@mrbill.net> <001801c01833$d64ea190$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <009101c01836$7a999500$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Caron" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 2:54 PM Subject: Re: PDP / VAX FS: Austin, TX > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Bradford" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 5:50 PM > Subject: PDP / VAX FS: Austin, TX > > > > If interested in any of this stuff, please mail me off-list. I'm running > > out of room so some of this has to go.. > > > > (make offer) > > PDP-11/02 in BA11-VA chassis, with: > > RS232 console serial card > > RAM card > > RX01 disk controller card > > CPU card > > (not at home now, dont have the exact numbers) > > Pictures: > > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-front.jpg > > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back.jpg > > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp-back-closeup-1.jpg > > Local buyers: will throw in the dual-unit RX01-compatible floppy drive > > unit (its WAAAY too heavy to ship): > > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-front.jpg > > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/eight-inch-floppys-switches.jpg > > and an original VT102 with manual: > > http://www.pdp11.org/pics/pdp1102.jpg > > > > I've also got a VAXstation 4000-VLC with 16mb and a > > VS3100-M38 with 16mb that I'll let go dirt cheap. > > Anyway, mail me off-list if anyone is interested in > > this stuff - I've become too busy to work with it > > lately and it needs a good caring home. > > > > Also have a (dunno how old it is) Livingston Portmaster IRX 2-port > > console/terminal server/router. > > > > Bill > > > > -- > > +-------------------\ /-----------------+ > > | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | > > | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | > > | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | > > +-------------------/ \-----------------+ > > > > Hi! I saw your post on the classiccmp mailing list, and I'm definately > interested in purchasing the PDP-11/02, the VAXstation 3100, and > the Livingston terminal server. Please let me know if any/all of it is > available, and if you're willing to ship it to the Kalamazoo, Michigan area. > > I'm willing to pay whatever's fair for the cost of equipment plus shipping. > > Thanks, > -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) > (sean@techcare.com) > > > Sorry all, I meant to post this off-list. -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 6 13:08:46 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <001501c017a7$cb4d6c40$0500c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Sep 5, 0 08:11:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000906/b570a34d/attachment.ksh From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Sep 6 15:42:39 2000 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems References: <200009052013.PAA44059@opal.tseinc.com> <001901c0179e$c5f45690$4605d9d1@cnelson> Message-ID: I've got a Data General Aviion 3000 in my collection, complete with monitor and hard drive/tape SCSI chasis. It's a neat machine boots up and everything, but I don't have a keyboard or mouse for it. The monitor is great, it seems to sync to anything and is build like a tank. I'm using it on my DEC 3000 until I can get a real DEC monitor. Any info on the 3000 would be much appreciated. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nelson" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Data General AViiONs and other 88k systems > I am interested in Motorola 88k based systems like the Data General AViiON > and related information. > > I have a small website www.m88k.org and wish to expand it's content. > > Thanks. > > Chris Nelson > cnelson@dallas.net > webmaster@m88k.org > > From rdd at smart.net Wed Sep 6 16:15:46 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > Oh come on!. There are places for programmable logic, but this sure isn't > one of them. Yes, that's what I think as well. > One of the rules that I work to when repairing a classic computer is to > replace as little as possible (==keep as much of the original stuff as > possible). So you repair a PCB rather than replacing it. You replace only > the faulty component, not great blocks of logic. Why replace stuff that's > working properly? In addition, those PALs/GALs will most likely fail before the rest of the other older components would have failed. It makes no sense to replace that which is working properly... but then, society has become conditioned to such lunacy. Look at how many people keep buying new cars, when the cars they were driving 20 or more years ago would still be running well had they kept and properly maintained them and not been susceptible to marketing gimmickry. ...and,over here in the States, we'd not have become so dependant on "the spying Japanese," to quote the Dire Straits song "Industrial Disease." (off topic: funniest thing I've read in a while: a review for a Japanese pickup truck announced that it towed a horse-trailer loaded with 300-lbs of weight (no moving horses) up a steep hill... ROFL!) > A PAL/GAL is not going to drop in place of this chip. For one thing, > there are no known 14 pin PALs. For another, no PAL that I've ever seen > has outputs on the left (like pin 6 of the 7422). So it's going to > involve some kludge-wiring. Bletch. Is this what the art of repairing things is degenerating into? > Especially as there's a TTL chip (the 7422) that will drop in place of > the DTL part. The only possible mod would be adding a pull-up from pin 6 > and pin 8 to Vcc. Not exactly a big mod. Yes, true, but it's not modern and wasteful... Could not a great Monty Python skit be made from this? -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Sep 6 16:26:36 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: New Find In-Reply-To: <007901c01789$896aa540$2d721fd1@default> Message-ID: <39B6D2AC.8218.CA0EE20@localhost> > Picked up a Sun SPARCstation 370 today, looks like some cards are > missing has several open slots. Will give more details as I start > working with it. Well, every other time I may also publish some finds This week: Nixdorf 8150 Handheld (PC 05) including Printer (MD 08) Nixdorf 8810/25 Luggable PC Commodore 8032 (Big Screen) 8050 FD and Needle Printer (Number???) Philips 8035 IBEX CP/M Computer and last but not least a Pascal Micro Engine :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Sep 6 18:53:39 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Lynklyte III terminal by Lynk Message-ID: <000101c0185d$adfdf220$6d9e72d1@cobweb.net> Hello again from the land of Hidden Treasures, Canonsburg, PA 15317. Available for a small donation and shipping cost, or they end up in the dumpster: 2 Lynklyte III terminals by Lynk with keyboards, one yellowed, one not. On the back: Appear to have ethernet thick? (2 pin coax) connection, with RJ-45 adapters. Printer port, DB-25M Cartridge slot Keyboards resemble IBM AT style, some keys labeled differently. Plug looks the same as XT/AT also. Please contact me off list if interested. Bill Your computer will do far more than you ever expected it to, and that won't be enough. Pournelle's First Law From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Wed Sep 6 19:48:04 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Pre/Post VCF touring/shopping advices Message-ID: <002f01c01865$48740360$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> Hi, Does anyone here have a few tips and trick for those of us wanting to make the most of our VCF trip? Any good places in the area to visit (hobby related that is) thrifts, surpluses etc... Thanks for the tips. Francois PS: Even you local can pitch in, it only for one week-end and then everything will be back to normal :) From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Thu Sep 7 03:49:28 2000 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp Message-ID: <002c01c018a8$8914fbc0$dadf8490@tp.nsw.bigpond.net.au> Pictures: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1166661&a=8583124 -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, 7 September 2000 2:22 Subject: Re: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp >On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Olminkhof wrote: > >> I have a new find that doesn't seem to be documented on the Web so far. >> It's a "Pied Piper" by Semi-Tech Electronics Corporation of Menlo Park, >> California. >> >> It seems to work perfectly and came with a little documentation and a CP/M >> boot disk. It is a portable, a little larger than a C64 with a carry handle, >> a cover for the keyboard and a diskette drive built in. Docs are copyright >> 1982. Has a composite monitor connector that I'm using. > >By all means, post a picture! > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Thu Sep 7 03:50:49 2000 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp Message-ID: <003301c018a8$b93c8f20$dadf8490@tp.nsw.bigpond.net.au> > >I'd appreciate you posting whatever you can find - I have a Pied Piper too, >but no info at all. Not even a boot disk (Oh Hans ... ) > Emailed. Any other requests? From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Sep 7 09:31:46 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: Hopefully, in the next week or two, I'm going to be getting a SOL. In anticipation of this, I'm wondering what floppy interfaces one might expect to find in a SOL. The one I'm getting does not have a floppy card in it. Looking around, I see that some people have NorthStars in theirs. I have a spare N* floppy controller, but I'd rather not go this route as the hard sectored media is difficult to find. I'll have to inventory my S-100 cards... I know I have a couple of Cromemcos 4FDC and 16FDC cards. Would someone have put one of these in a SOL? I'm not asking if it can be made to work. I'm trying to get a sense of whether it's appropriate or if it would be like putting a SoundBlaster32 with 16 Megs of memory in an original 6MHz PC-AT with a 512K motherboard. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 7 10:39:56 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB100@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Hopefully, in the next week or two, I'm going to be > getting a SOL. In anticipation of this, I'm wondering > what floppy interfaces one might expect to find in > a SOL. The one I'm getting does not have a floppy card > in it. Looking around, I see that some people have > NorthStars in theirs. I have a spare N* floppy controller, > but I'd rather not go this route as the hard sectored > media is difficult to find. I'll have to inventory my > S-100 cards... I know I have a couple of Cromemcos 4FDC > and 16FDC cards. Would someone have put one of these in > a SOL? I'm not asking if it can be made to work. I'm > trying to get a sense of whether it's appropriate or if > it would be like putting a SoundBlaster32 with 16 Megs > of memory in an original 6MHz PC-AT with a 512K > motherboard. Processor Technology had a HD system they called "Helios", which used (IIRC) Micropolis hard-sectored disks (they may have been "firm-sectored" tho). I think most went the NorthStar route, tho. I had intended (and still hope) to get a Morrow/ThinkerToys Discus 2D system for my Sol. hth, -dq From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Sep 7 10:40:29 2000 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: finally got my website "on-line" Message-ID: Hello all. I have published my PDP-11 webpages. Allthough they are not finished (will they ever be?), I am going public because otherwise it will never happen -:) Enjoy reading, and I am looking forward to any comments. Happy collecting, Henk Gooijen, PDP-11 collector gooi@oce.nl henk.gooijen@12move.nl Sneak-peek of retro-computing: http://home.12move.nl/~sh416008 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 7 11:05:56 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: beginer WAX In-Reply-To: References: <795.283T2724T9494080rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000907090318.02bcda40@208.226.86.10> At 07:30 AM 9/6/00 +0200, you wrote: >How much is 500 Dkkr in $s ? In Copenhagen last week it would have been somewhat less than $62. (about 8:1 as I recall) >Look that you can stock up the 8mb a bit. >Sorry that I said it isn't supported. I wasn't good informed. Last time I >looked through the Supported-Hardware List of NetBSD it wasn't. Not to worry, technically it _still_ isn't supported because 1.5 isn't released officially yet. Further, NetBSD does not support the Frame buffer so you are forced to use an external terminal with it still. So you weren't actually wrong. :-) --Chuck From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu Sep 7 11:43:29 2000 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? Message-ID: <80256953.005BC0E7.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >> Might be . . . I think that is a Power PC chip and there is a Linux for PPC, >> but sold under the Macintosh banner. I have a PPC distro, but it is geared >> for the PPC card in an Amiga. > > Not necessarily -- it could be the old POWER architecture. There is no Linux > for that, at least that I'm aware of. We have three 7012s at work. Two are model 320, one (the one which actually booted last time I switched it on!) is a model 375. They use the old Power RISC chipset in its various incarnations. We migrated to a Sun 450 about 2 years ago when we discovered that all the RS/6000 models in our price range were PPC and slower than our existing 375 (the exception being the model 397 - presumably another 7012 - but even that was a bit expen, and we wondered how long they'd go on supporting it) > I run AIX 4.1.4 on this Apple Network Server 500, which is itself a PPC 604e. > LinuxPPC is *kind of* supported on this platform -- I hear it still has some > X issues. Never mind, I love SMIT always. ;-) ROFL! But Solstice is worse... One thing to beware, at least on our 7012 machines, is that if you want to add a keyboard, you need a special one. PC keyboard doesn't work (no need to guess how I found that out a couple of office moves ago...). Display is 1280*1024, can't remember the scanning rates, on 3 BNCs, sync on green. An IBM 6019 is recommended :-) Mouse is a standard PS/2 mouse - plugged it into my PC and it the setup said it had detected a Logitech mouse... Philip. This message and any attachments are confidential and should only be read by those to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us, delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. Internet communications are not always secure and therefore the Powergen Group does not accept legal responsibility for this message. The recipient is responsible for verifying its authenticity before acting on the contents. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Powergen Group. Powergen plc. 53 New Broad Street, London EC2M 1SL Telephone +44 (0) 2476 42 4000 Fax +44 (0) 2476 42 5432 From Mike-Noel at GCI.net Thu Sep 7 14:04:20 2000 From: Mike-Noel at GCI.net (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options References: Message-ID: <39B7E6B4.D5EC201D@GCI.net> Closely related question - I have a N* controller (attached to a pair of N* drives) attached to a SOL. I think the controller and drives work (they appear to boot an NOS disk but nothing happens on the screen) but I haven't been able to find doc on configuring NOS for SOL. Anyone have that or able to explain what I have to do? Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Hopefully, in the next week or two, I'm going to be > getting a SOL. In anticipation of this, I'm wondering > what floppy interfaces one might expect to find in > a SOL. The one I'm getting does not have a floppy card > in it. Looking around, I see that some people have > NorthStars in theirs. I have a spare N* floppy controller, > but I'd rather not go this route as the hard sectored > media is difficult to find. I'll have to inventory my > S-100 cards... I know I have a couple of Cromemcos 4FDC > and 16FDC cards. Would someone have put one of these in > a SOL? I'm not asking if it can be made to work. I'm > trying to get a sense of whether it's appropriate or if > it would be like putting a SoundBlaster32 with 16 Megs > of memory in an original 6MHz PC-AT with a 512K > motherboard. From sean at techcare.com Thu Sep 7 13:37:08 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Lynklyte III terminal by Lynk References: <000101c0185d$adfdf220$6d9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <00b101c018fa$a0e0edc0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dawson" To: "Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org" Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 7:53 PM Subject: Lynklyte III terminal by Lynk > Hello again from the land of Hidden Treasures, Canonsburg, PA 15317. > > Available for a small donation and shipping cost, or they end up in the > dumpster: > > 2 Lynklyte III terminals by Lynk with keyboards, one yellowed, one not. > > On the back: > > Appear to have ethernet thick? (2 pin coax) connection, with RJ-45 > adapters. > >From that description, these sound like Twinax terminals off some IBM midrange equipment. > Printer port, DB-25M > > Cartridge slot > > Keyboards resemble IBM AT style, some keys labeled differently. Plug > looks the same as XT/AT also. > > > Please contact me off list if interested. > > > Bill > > Your computer will do far more than you ever expected it to, > and that won't be enough. > > Pournelle's First Law > > Just so nobody gets the wrong idea. -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 7 14:02:04 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB106@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Closely related question - > > I have a N* controller (attached to a pair of N* drives) attached to a > SOL. I think the controller and drives work (they appear to boot an NOS > disk but nothing happens on the screen) but I haven't been able to find > doc on configuring NOS for SOL. Anyone have that or able to explain > what I have to do? Sounds very familiar... seems like you have to patch the N* controller ROM to use the SOLOS ROM jump table entries for get a character/display a character... Jim Battles, Bob Stek, and I should all have this info somewhere in SOLUS NEWS/PROTEUS NEWS? Guys? Does that sound right? -dq From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Sep 7 17:10:47 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: IBM Monitor Message-ID: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> Does anybody have the specs for an IBM POWERdisplay 20, p/n 09G3821? I searched all over IBM's website. It's like it is yesterday's model (which it is) and they only wanna tell you about the latest and greatest. TIA Mike From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 7 18:16:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <006b01c01923$4aa2b1e0$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> From: Douglas Quebbeman >> I have a N* controller (attached to a pair of N* drives) attached to a >> SOL. I think the controller and drives work (they appear to boot an NOS >> disk but nothing happens on the screen) but I haven't been able to find >> doc on configuring NOS for SOL. Anyone have that or able to explain >> what I have to do? > >Sounds very familiar... seems like you have to patch the N* controller >ROM to use the SOLOS ROM jump table entries for get a character/display >a character... Jim Battles, Bob Stek, and I should all have this info >somewhere in SOLUS NEWS/PROTEUS NEWS? > >Guys? Does that sound right? No. The Solos roms conveniently provide nice IO for Charin and Charout the boot rom on the NS* controller is strictly boot(no other IO). And the standard NS* DOS is setup for 8251 usarts as in the NS* Horizon. So to bring uo NS* DOS on anything else you need e800h->efffh clear for the boot rom. NS* DOS wants ram starting at 2000h which most systems will do nicely (those that have rom usually have it at 0000 or FXXXh). With that You boot NS* DOS and halt it after boot appears done then using whatever debugger or memory editor you patch the jump table for YOUR IO (there is space if you need to code it). you write that out to a new disk after warm boot and now you have custom NS* DOS for your hardware. If your using NS* CP/M or the UCSD Pascal System the procedure is similar. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 7 18:06:15 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <006a01c01923$4a022c20$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> From: Bill Sudbrink >Hopefully, in the next week or two, I'm going to be >getting a SOL. In anticipation of this, I'm wondering >what floppy interfaces one might expect to find in >a SOL. The one I'm getting does not have a floppy card Most likely a Northstar* MDS, Helios and maybe Icom FDOS there are toehrs but those were "of era". >in it. Looking around, I see that some people have >NorthStars in theirs. I have a spare N* floppy controller, >but I'd rather not go this route as the hard sectored >media is difficult to find. I'll have to inventory my >S-100 cards... I know I have a couple of Cromemcos 4FDC >and 16FDC cards. Would someone have put one of these in >a SOL? I'm not asking if it can be made to work. I'm >trying to get a sense of whether it's appropriate or if >it would be like putting a SoundBlaster32 with 16 Megs >of memory in an original 6MHz PC-AT with a 512K >motherboard. Keep in mind a SOL is 2mhz 8080 and without a DMA based FDC 8" double density is not easily done. It will do 5.25 double density however. Allison > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 7 18:19:14 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <006c01c01923$4b291ff0$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Noel > >I have a N* controller (attached to a pair of N* drives) attached to a >SOL. I think the controller and drives work (they appear to boot an NOS >disk but nothing happens on the screen) but I haven't been able to find >doc on configuring NOS for SOL. Anyone have that or able to explain >what I have to do? If you have the NS DOS manuals it's inthere all maybe 6 pages of it. The SOL was not the defacto IO so you have to setup for that and likely Bob Stek has it already done. It's very straightforward for the SOL. Allison From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 7 19:03:41 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Panasonic 8" Optical Drive References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> Message-ID: <39B82CDD.84B0112F@rain.org> Anyone familiar with: Panasonic 8" optical Drive Removeable Cartridges Model DU-15LU Manufactured 1987 by Mitsushita (sp?) Someone gave me a call today to see if I had one. I don't and told him I would put it out to the listserver. Also, are there any other units by other companies that will read these cartridges? The main concern here is data recovery. The second concern is that I will then see if I can obtain that computer :)! My understanding is that only five of these units were sold in the US and four were returned since they were not networkable (fact or fiction?) From cem14 at cornell.edu Tue Sep 5 00:21:00 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (cem14@cornell.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #355 Message-ID: <200009080028.UAA26921@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Paul Brown wrote: >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:11:52 -0500 >Subject: Re: Windows CE and an OT rant > -snip- >or >take the long-respected brand name of Hewlett-Packard >Instruments and start calling them "Agilent Technologies", a name >that I haven't heard pronounced the same way twice, or again The worse part is that "agilent" is a very dumb name in many languages; agile on one hand, "lent" ("slow" in most languages) on the other. The measurement/instrumentation half should have kept the HP name. The agilent oxymoron actually fits the other one. Carlos. From ncherry at home.net Thu Sep 7 19:38:28 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> <39B82CDD.84B0112F@rain.org> Message-ID: <39B83504.CDD84160@home.net> Well while snipe hunting in the lab ;-) I can across 2 dusty machines. I noted the BA213 written on both of them and quickly sat down and wrote every part listed on its back (front?). What I need to know is how do I get started with the 2 machines? Here's what they have: Model 640QS-B2 BA213 MS650/M7621 KA640/M7624 M7559 DSV11-SA/M3108 M9060-YA KSQSA/M5976-SA TQK70/M7559-00 M9060-YA Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about that kind of thing!). Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From Mike-Noel at GCI.net Thu Sep 7 19:39:24 2000 From: Mike-Noel at GCI.net (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options References: <006c01c01923$4b291ff0$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39B8353C.1F982EAB@GCI.net> Don't have those pages (or the manual!) - do you know if they are on the WWW anywhere? ajp166 wrote: > > From: Mike Noel > > > >I have a N* controller (attached to a pair of N* drives) attached to a > >SOL. I think the controller and drives work (they appear to boot an NOS > >disk but nothing happens on the screen) but I haven't been able to find > >doc on configuring NOS for SOL. Anyone have that or able to explain > >what I have to do? > > If you have the NS DOS manuals it's inthere all maybe 6 pages of it. > The SOL was not the defacto IO so you have to setup for that and likely > Bob Stek has it already done. It's very straightforward for the SOL. > > Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 7 20:04:28 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <39B83504.CDD84160@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Sep 07, 2000 08:38:28 PM Message-ID: <200009080104.SAA30216@shell1.aracnet.com> For info on what a board is See: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt > Model 640QS-B2 BA213 > MS650/M7621 - 8MB RAM KA640/M7624 - MicroVAX 3300/3400 > M7559 - TMSCP controller for TK70 > DSV11-SA/M3108 - 2-line sync SLU (Serial Line Unit) > M9060-YA - Good Question! > KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI adapter > TQK70/M7559-00 - TMSCP controller for TK70 > M9060-YA - Again Good Question. This strikes me as a slightly odd set of boards. What kind of disks does it use? What is hooked up to the SCSI adapter? > Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes > I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about > that kind of thing!). The Linux/VAX project looks to be dead last I checked. It will run NetBSD, however the PROPER Operating System for these boxes is OpenVMS. Are you wanting to run these as Hobbyist systems? If so look at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ for licenses and buying a OpenVMS/VAX CD. You'll also need to get a free DECUS membership, and it has links to that I believe. If you're wanting to run it as a commercial system you'll want to check: http://www.openvms.compaq.com In either case you'll probably also want to check out: http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 <--- Documentation Web Site Zane From r.stek at snet.net Thu Sep 7 20:06:58 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: NorthStar sub-systems were by far the most popular 5.25" systems for the Sol. Second would have been Micropolis, then perhaps Vista, and other lesser known makes. The 10 hole hard sectored disks were not that difficult to get (you can still buy them at California Digital - www.cadigital.com I think). NorthStar was one of the first, if not THE first on the market with a 5.25" system, and at $699 list with controller, they were $300 cheaper than an 8" drive. A LOT of IMSAI owners also went with N*'s. For 8" drives the Tarbell controller was popular, but the Morrow Disk Jockey (I and II) was probably the most common. There were many 8" drive controllers - CCS, SSM, Godbout, etc. - for CP/M. ProcTech's Helios had a two board set for their Pertec 8" drives in an impressive enclosure, and they did use the 32 hole hard sectored 8" disks. Their PTDOS was more than adequate and comparable to CP/M, but the Helios was very expensive, the drives were finicky, and CP/M became the universal standard. Someone eventually did adapt CP/M to run on the Helios, but by that time PT had disappeared. And yes, N* DOS has four entry points - Character-IN, C-OUT, cont-C, and Terminal-INIT - which must be patched to corresponding SOLOS routines in ROM. If you are really stuck, email off list for some helpful info. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 7 20:43:47 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <00ab01c01936$a9a47670$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> >Don't have those pages (or the manual!) - do you know if they are on the >WWW anywhere? Well I'd look in the 'net but you could too. So happens I have the manuals from my purchase back in '76 or was it '77. Allison From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Sep 7 20:50:12 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: IBM Monitor In-Reply-To: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000907185012.00999dc0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 18:10 07-09-2000 EDT, you wrote: >Does anybody have the specs for an IBM POWERdisplay 20, p/n 09G3821? > >I searched all over IBM's website. It's like it is yesterday's model >(which it is) and they only wanna tell you about the latest and greatest. This is a monitor used on their RS/6000 and PowerPC lines. I recall that it is fixed-frequency, but I don't recall what said frequencies are. > >TIA >Mike > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ncherry at home.net Thu Sep 7 21:01:45 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? References: <200009080104.SAA30216@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <39B84889.A657F31E@home.net> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > For info on what a board is See: > http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt > > > Model 640QS-B2 BA213 > > MS650/M7621 - 8MB RAM > KA640/M7624 - MicroVAX 3300/3400 > > > M7559 - TMSCP controller for TK70 > > DSV11-SA/M3108 - 2-line sync SLU (Serial Line Unit) > > M9060-YA - Good Question! > > KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI adapter > > TQK70/M7559-00 - TMSCP controller for TK70 > > M9060-YA - Again Good Question. > > This strikes me as a slightly odd set of boards. What kind of disks does it > use? What is hooked up to the SCSI adapter? Internally; I don't know, Externally; just the terminator. I haven't found the keyboard for the terminal yet and I haven't powered it up. I did find out that they previously worked fine. > > Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes > > I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about > > that kind of thing!). > > The Linux/VAX project looks to be dead last I checked. It will run NetBSD, > however the PROPER Operating System for these boxes is OpenVMS. > > Are you wanting to run these as Hobbyist systems? If so look at: > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ for licenses and buying a OpenVMS/VAX CD. > You'll also need to get a free DECUS membership, and it has links to that I > believe. > > If you're wanting to run it as a commercial system you'll want to check: > http://www.openvms.compaq.com > > In either case you'll probably also want to check out: > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 <--- Documentation Web Site > > Zane Even though the machines are in the lab they're for my personal use. If I can con-vince my new boss that I have a use for one of them they'll be added to the LHA project test lab in my garage. :-) One will stay VMS, I've never worked directly with VMS but I was very impressed with their networking! I don't know which OS to run at home. NetBSD would fit nicely with the LHA project but I want a VMS system too. Maybe I can get both systems. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 7 20:48:32 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? Message-ID: <00b001c01938$c36ae740$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> From: Neil Cherry > >Model 640QS-B2 BA213 >MS650/M7621 KA640/M7624 >M7559 >DSV11-SA/M3108 >M9060-YA >KSQSA/M5976-SA >TQK70/M7559-00 >M9060-YA It's a microvax of mid generation say MVIII. > >Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes Forget Linux, no ported. NTbsd may run ig you have disks, dont see them on the list nor do I see eithernet. Check out NetBSd port VAX. >I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about >that kind of thing!). VMS without license is useless (it is keyed!). Check the DECUS.org web page and Montagar.com. IT likely ram VMS in the V5 era or later and could have run also run Ultrix (unix of the BSD flavor with DEC tweeks). Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 7 21:50:02 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Panasonic 8" Optical Drive In-Reply-To: <39B82CDD.84B0112F@rain.org> References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000907215002.3b579038@mailhost.intellistar.net> Marvin, If it's what I think it is then I have two NIB optical disks for it. They're Panasonic part number TQ-FD22 and they're made by Matsushita Electric Industrial Co in Japan. Make an offer if you're interested in the disks. FWIW these are more surplus from NASA KSC. Joe At 05:03 PM 9/7/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Anyone familiar with: > >Panasonic 8" optical Drive >Removeable Cartridges >Model DU-15LU >Manufactured 1987 by Mitsushita (sp?) > >Someone gave me a call today to see if I had one. I don't and told him I >would put it out to the listserver. Also, are there any other units by other >companies that will read these cartridges? The main concern here is data >recovery. The second concern is that I will then see if I can obtain that >computer :)! My understanding is that only five of these units were sold in >the US and four were returned since they were not networkable (fact or >fiction?) > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 7 22:17:20 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000907221720.348fdde6@mailhost.intellistar.net> After a lot of negotiation and long delays, I finally picked up a Zilog Z-80 Developement System today. There are two large boxs in the system, one has two 8" floppy drives and the other has the main electronics. There's also a pod connected to the electronics box by a cable. Does anyone have any manuals or other information about this system? The only thing that I have is some Zilog brochures for it. BTW stickers on the disk drives are dated late 1978. I'll try to post a better description and pictures next week. This weekend will be taken up with the Melbourne hamfest (Yippie!) Joe From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 7 21:45:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options Message-ID: <00b901c0193f$14364970$7a0f9a8d@ajp166> From: Robert Stek >lesser known makes. The 10 hole hard sectored disks were not that difficult >to get (you can still buy them at California Digital - www.cadigital.com I >think). NorthStar was one of the first, if not THE first on the market with >a 5.25" system, and at $699 list with controller, they were $300 cheaper >than an 8" drive. A LOT of IMSAI owners also went with N*'s. For 8" drives Commentary and minor history items. What truely made the NS* popular was not only was there a drive and controller for $699 it included a DOS, Monitor and BASIC and in 1977 Billy G was getting 350$ for casette basic and 500$ for disk basic!! NS* filled two aching niches, lack of reliable inexpensive storage and a decent OS with a useful language. FYI: NS* Basic was one of the few that would support multiling functions and even recusive subroutine calls. While it had it's flaws at the DOS level (lacking in dynamic disk space allocation) it made up for in memory efficientcy, reliability, speed and ease of programming. There were better and more sophisticated products they all came for a bigger price. >finicky, and CP/M became the universal standard. Someone eventually did >adapt CP/M to run on the Helios, but by that time PT had disappeared. CP/M was adapted to everything! I wonder if by 1980 everything was adapting to CP/M. >And yes, N* DOS has four entry points - These are the basic bare bone NS* drivers for Horizon (8251 USART). The drivers shown do not use the device selection capability in NS* DOS, up to 7 devices could exist and the device was passed in ACC at call. Here the rough code. Loc 02 in this case is data buffer Loc 03 is the status port Bit 0 is tx buffer empty Bit 1 is RX buffer full Character-IN, test for and get a character from the input device. 2013h JMP CIN ; CIN ; CONSOLE IN RETURN CHAR IN Acc ; CIN: IN 03 ANI 02 JZ CIN IN 02 ANI 07Fh RET C-OUT, Test port for ready and output char in B. 200Dh JMP cout ; COUT ; CHARACTER OUTPUT ROUTINE GOES HERE ; CHAR TO GO IS IN 'B' ; ; SIO DRIVER COUT: IN 03 ANI 1 JZ COUT MOV A,B OUT 02 RET cont-C, Test char stream return with Z set if there was Ctrl-C. 201Ch JMP ctrlc ; CTLC ; CONTROL C ROUTINE GOES HERE ; RET Z=1 if control C otherwise Z=0 ; ; SIO DRIVER ; CTRLC: IN 03 ani 02 ; test for char wating XRI 02 ; use Xor to flip the Z bit RNZ NONE ; none? then bail IN 02 ; get data ANI 07Fh ; mask to ascii CPI "CTRLC" ; is it CTRLc RET Terminal-INIT used to setup or initalize the terminal (if needed). 2013h JMP TINIT (if needed) or RET (if not) - which must be patched to corresponding SOLOS routines in >ROM. If you are really stuck, email off list for some helpful info. Allison From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Sep 7 21:38:22 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <200009080104.SAA30216@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: The M9060-YA is a load board to make the power suppy happy. It should be a bunch of power resistors... clint On Thu, 7 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > For info on what a board is See: > http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt > > > Model 640QS-B2 BA213 > > MS650/M7621 - 8MB RAM > KA640/M7624 - MicroVAX 3300/3400 > > > M7559 - TMSCP controller for TK70 > > DSV11-SA/M3108 - 2-line sync SLU (Serial Line Unit) > > M9060-YA - Good Question! > > KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI adapter > > TQK70/M7559-00 - TMSCP controller for TK70 > > M9060-YA - Again Good Question. > > This strikes me as a slightly odd set of boards. What kind of disks does it > use? What is hooked up to the SCSI adapter? > > > Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes > > I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about > > that kind of thing!). > > The Linux/VAX project looks to be dead last I checked. It will run NetBSD, > however the PROPER Operating System for these boxes is OpenVMS. > > Are you wanting to run these as Hobbyist systems? If so look at: > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ for licenses and buying a OpenVMS/VAX CD. > You'll also need to get a free DECUS membership, and it has links to that I > believe. > > If you're wanting to run it as a commercial system you'll want to check: > http://www.openvms.compaq.com > > In either case you'll probably also want to check out: > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000 <--- Documentation Web Site > > Zane > > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Sep 7 21:46:39 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000907221720.348fdde6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000907214541.024cbef0@pc> At 10:17 PM 9/7/00 -0500, Joe wrote: > After a lot of negotiation and long delays, I finally picked up a Zilog >Z-80 Developement System today. There are two large boxs in the system, >one has two 8" floppy drives and the other has the main electronics. I've got a Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system and RIO operating system disks. Is yours blue in color? I think I've only fired-up mine once or twice since I got it more than ten years ago. - John From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Sep 7 21:48:11 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? Message-ID: <9.a52287d.26e9ad6b@aol.com> On 9/7 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > One thing to beware, at least on our 7012 machines, is that if you want to add a > keyboard, you need a special one. PC keyboard doesn't work (no need to guess > how I found that out a couple of office moves ago...). The keyboard is a Model M. The part number listed on it is either 13G4540 or 1394540. I could not distinguish the 'g' from a '9' on the label, although I suspect it is a 'G'. > Display is 1280*1024, > can't remember the scanning rates, on 3 BNCs, sync on green. An IBM 6019 is > recommended :-) Philip, I think you mean 6091, sometimes known as the 6091-19. I have a 5081-16 on my 320H and what documentation I have lists both monitors. Specs for the 6091 are: H Frequency : 63.36/81.32 KHz V Frequency : 60/67/77 Hz Resolution: 1024x1024 & 1280x1024 That brings me to an earlier posting I made: : Does anybody have the specs for an IBM POWERdisplay 20, p/n 09G3821? I am curious to know, if the 5081 goes south, if the POWERdisplay 20 will serve as a replacement. > Mouse is a standard PS/2 mouse - plugged it into my PC and it > the setup said it had detected a Logitech mouse... The part number for the mouse is 11F8895 Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Thu Sep 7 21:48:13 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? Message-ID: <82.649db3.26e9ad6d@aol.com> On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, "R. D. Davis" wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > Oh come on!. There are places for programmable logic, but this sure isn't > > one of them. > > Yes, that's what I think as well. > > > One of the rules that I work to when repairing a classic computer is to > > replace as little as possible (==keep as much of the original stuff as > > possible). So you repair a PCB rather than replacing it. You replace only > > the faulty component, not great blocks of logic. Why replace stuff that's > > working properly? > > In addition, those PALs/GALs will most likely fail before the rest of > the other older components would have failed. It makes no sense to > replace that which is working properly... In other words: "IF it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Mike From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 7 23:11:49 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <39B83504.CDD84160@home.net> References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> <39B82CDD.84B0112F@rain.org> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> Yes, they will run NetBSD but NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives yet. If you have SCSI drives attached to the KZQSA then you're in luck there. The M9060A boards are the dummy load boards used to keep enough load on the BA213's switchers to insure that they "light up". The number of disks inside can be ascertained by looking for numbered plugs in the front panel. --Chuck At 08:38 PM 9/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >Well while snipe hunting in the lab ;-) I can across 2 dusty machines. >I noted the BA213 written on both of them and quickly sat down and wrote >every part listed on its back (front?). What I need to know is how do I >get started with the 2 machines? Here's what they have: > >Model 640QS-B2 BA213 >MS650/M7621 KA640/M7624 >M7559 >DSV11-SA/M3108 >M9060-YA >KSQSA/M5976-SA >TQK70/M7559-00 >M9060-YA > >Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes >I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about >that kind of thing!). > >Thanks > >-- >Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net >http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) >http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) >http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 7 23:36:19 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 07, 2000 09:11:49 PM Message-ID: <200009080436.VAA20238@shell1.aracnet.com> > Yes, they will run NetBSD but NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives yet. If > you have SCSI drives attached to the KZQSA then you're in luck there. The > M9060A boards are the dummy load boards used to keep enough load on the > BA213's switchers to insure that they "light up". The number of disks > inside can be ascertained by looking for numbered plugs in the front panel. I'm not really familiar with the BA213's, however, it appears that if he's got any disks they're apparently SCSI (though for some reason I was thinking the KZQSA doesn't "Support" SCSI Disks). If they are in fact SCSI would he have the numbered plugs? Oh, and if you must run NetBSD on DEC hardware get a DECstation :^) Quit wasting good hardware on UNIX :^) Having said that don't ask what I run OpenBSD on.... :^) Zane From vcf at siconic.com Thu Sep 7 23:52:41 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Robotwars? Message-ID: Does anyone remember Robotwars for the Apple ][? It was written by Silas Warner and published by Muse. This was a multi-player game. Did it by any chance allow two people on separate computers to play against each other by any sort of link-up between the machines? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From marvin at rain.org Fri Sep 8 00:57:27 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Panasonic 8" Optical Drive References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> <3.0.1.16.20000907215002.3b579038@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <39B87FC7.37E12772@rain.org> Hi Joe, The problem is that the optical disks already exist, but the reader has been damaged. Do you happen to have (or can get a hold of) the machine used to read and write to these disks? I'll check tomorrow and see if he is interested in more disks. From my conversation with him this afternoon, he is very interested in getting something to read the existing disks so he can recover the data on them. Thanks! Marvin Joe wrote: > > Marvin, > > If it's what I think it is then I have two NIB optical disks for it. > They're Panasonic part number TQ-FD22 and they're made by Matsushita > Electric Industrial Co in Japan. Make an offer if you're interested in the > disks. FWIW these are more surplus from NASA KSC. > > Joe > > At 05:03 PM 9/7/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Anyone familiar with: > > > >Panasonic 8" optical Drive > >Removeable Cartridges > >Model DU-15LU > >Manufactured 1987 by Mitsushita (sp?) > > > >Someone gave me a call today to see if I had one. I don't and told him I > >would put it out to the listserver. Also, are there any other units by other > >companies that will read these cartridges? The main concern here is data > >recovery. The second concern is that I will then see if I can obtain that > >computer :)! My understanding is that only five of these units were sold in > >the US and four were returned since they were not networkable (fact or > >fiction?) > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 8 01:57:30 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <200009080436.VAA20238@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000907235037.00ab74e0@208.226.86.10> At 09:36 PM 9/7/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >I'm not really familiar with the BA213's, however, it appears that if he's >got any disks they're apparently SCSI (though for some reason I was thinking >the KZQSA doesn't "Support" SCSI Disks). If they are in fact SCSI would he >have the numbered plugs? Fortunately (unfortunately? :-)) I happen to be _very_ familiar with the BA213 and this particular processor. The KA640 uses the SII chip for an onboard DSSI interface, the disks are cabled to the CPU card through the cabinet to the right and up under the TK70. Typically there are three "rails" for 5-1/4" disk drives (full height) but I've also seen some that had a "double rail" on the right side to support a couple of half height DSSI drives (RF30 etc). The ethernet is implemented on the CPU board as well and thus this particular CPU needs the CPU bulkhead that supplys the connector. The follow-on to this particular processor is the KA660 which is found in the VAX 4000/200 however peripherally it is identically equipped (can even use the same memory) albeit nearly twice as fast. The KA640 is equivalent to the MicroVAX III in performance although it does a bit better on disk throughput as the DSSI bus is really 4MB/sec vs the Q-bus which seems slower. It was not unusual for these systems to use a DSSI port for clustering. I should have one for sale at the VCF :-) [probably running VMS] >Oh, and if you must run NetBSD on DEC hardware get a DECstation :^) Quit >wasting good hardware on UNIX :^) Having said that don't ask what I run >OpenBSD on.... :^) Differn't strokes and all that. My take is that BSD _exists_ because of the VAX so it at least has a right to be there (caveat the joke that NetBSD is being ported _back_ to the VAX from the PC) --Chuck From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Sep 8 03:44:13 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp Message-ID: <00Sep8.094417bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> No problem - I've got to get up to my house today to get my bin back in before some lowlife nicks it ('steals it' for non-brits :) I know exactly where the mag is so I'll get something typed up or scanned later on. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Gregory [mailto:gregorym@cadvision.com] > Sent: 06 September 2000 17:20 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adrian Graham" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 4:53 AM > Subject: RE: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp > > > > If nobody else can come up with anything I've got a copy of Personal > > Computer News at home which ran an article on the Pied > Piper when it was > > released so I'll be able to give you the full rundown. > > > > a > > > > I'd appreciate you posting whatever you can find - I have a > Pied Piper too, > but no info at all. Not even a boot disk (Oh Hans ... ) > > Mark. > From vonhagen at vonhagen.org Fri Sep 8 06:49:54 2000 From: vonhagen at vonhagen.org (William von Hagen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: CompatiCard IV? In-Reply-To: <00Sep8.094417bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000908074852.027c0f00@mail.vonhagen.org> Does anyone have any of these that they're willing to part with? If so, please contact me off list with pricing. Thanks! Bill From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Sep 8 07:49:10 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000907214541.024cbef0@pc> References: <3.0.1.16.20000907221720.348fdde6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000908074910.3c071f2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> John, Yes, it's blue with brushed aluminium around the top. I think I saw the letters MCZ n it but I'll check to be sure. I'd love to get a copy of the disks and any manuals that you have. Joe At 09:46 PM 9/7/00 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:17 PM 9/7/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >> After a lot of negotiation and long delays, I finally picked up a Zilog >>Z-80 Developement System today. There are two large boxs in the system, >>one has two 8" floppy drives and the other has the main electronics. > >I've got a Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system and RIO operating >system disks. Is yours blue in color? I think I've only fired-up >mine once or twice since I got it more than ten years ago. > >- John > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Sep 8 07:52:37 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Panasonic 8" Optical Drive In-Reply-To: <39B87FC7.37E12772@rain.org> References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> <3.0.1.16.20000907215002.3b579038@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000908075237.3c075094@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:57 PM 9/7/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Joe, > >The problem is that the optical disks already exist, but the reader has been >damaged. That's what I thought. Do you happen to have (or can get a hold of) the machine used to >read and write to these disks? No, I have no idea. These disks came from an auction and I didn't see any sign of the machine that used them. I'll check tomorrow and see if he is >interested in more disks. From my conversation with him this afternoon, he >is very interested in getting something to read the existing disks so he can >recover the data on them. Thanks! I'll look around for the machine but I wouldn't hold my breath till I found one. Joe > >Marvin > >Joe wrote: >> >> Marvin, >> >> If it's what I think it is then I have two NIB optical disks for it. >> They're Panasonic part number TQ-FD22 and they're made by Matsushita >> Electric Industrial Co in Japan. Make an offer if you're interested in the >> disks. FWIW these are more surplus from NASA KSC. >> >> Joe >> >> At 05:03 PM 9/7/00 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >Anyone familiar with: >> > >> >Panasonic 8" optical Drive >> >Removeable Cartridges >> >Model DU-15LU >> >Manufactured 1987 by Mitsushita (sp?) >> > >> >Someone gave me a call today to see if I had one. I don't and told him I >> >would put it out to the listserver. Also, are there any other units by other >> >companies that will read these cartridges? The main concern here is data >> >recovery. The second concern is that I will then see if I can obtain that >> >computer :)! My understanding is that only five of these units were sold in >> >the US and four were returned since they were not networkable (fact or >> >fiction?) >> > > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Sep 8 07:39:57 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:23 2005 Subject: Pied Piper by STM Electronics Corp - the review in brief Message-ID: <00Sep8.133958bst.46099@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Pied Piper Communicator 1 Specs: (eep - it cost ukp1000 in 1984!) Processor: Z80A RAM: 64K plus 2K screen memory ROM: 2K bootstrap, 2K character generator Text screen: 80x40 or 40x24 Graphics: none Keyboard: 64 moving keys, full size Interfaces: STO bus and Centronics Storage: 820K 5 1/4" disk OS: CP/M It also came with 3 packages, Perfect Filer (database), Perfect Writer (guess) and Perfect Calc (guess), although the reviewer is most critical of them! He also whinges about the 80 column screen mode that he can't get working and also that while CP/M 2.2 is the OS for the machine and there's bundles of software available he appears to be wishing it came with its own OS to make it stand out! Odd. I can scan the article if anyone needs more info, but TBH the review wasn't written by a technical journalist, eg he doesn't go into any detail as to what the STO bus is....I think the tech specs came straight from Canada and the pre-release model he had didn't include such things. He DID however, mention the possibility of an external floppy, hard drive, RS232 port and modem. a a From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Sep 8 09:34:17 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: How to contact Rich Message-ID: <39B8F8E9.B22E1B55@idirect.com> I noticed this reference, but it did not include a contact address. http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/pdpdocs.htm I think I remember seeing Rich on this list, but I am not sure. Does anyone have an e-mail address? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Sep 8 09:48:27 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: How to contact Rich Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31C4@MAIL10> Jerome: Here's my e-mail address: mailto:rcini@msn.com Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Fine [mailto:jhfine@idirect.com] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:34 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: How to contact Rich I noticed this reference, but it did not include a contact address. http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/pdpdocs.htm I think I remember seeing Rich on this list, but I am not sure. Does anyone have an e-mail address? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From kla at helios.augustana.edu Fri Sep 8 09:49:56 2000 From: kla at helios.augustana.edu (Kevin L. Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? Message-ID: My son was given an HP Portable Plus (Model 110 I believe). It looks good, complete with Word and Lotus in the software "drawer". Unfortunately it lacks the external power supply/ recharger, so I don't know if it works. Can anyone tell me what power supply I need and/or the power requirements? The HP150faq does not give those types of specifics that I can see. Thanks. Kevin Anderson formerly of Augustana College, Rock Island IL now in Bismarck, ND home: K9IUA@juno.com (alternate kla@helios.augustana.edu) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Sep 8 10:22:20 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Rescue opportunity Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000908082220.00987530@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Hey, folks, I may have an opportunity to pick up a "DataPoint" system... the one with the CPU in one module, storage in another, and they all sit on the floor (or table -- they're small!) and stack together side-by-side, joined with bus connectors on said sides? Each module is powered by an external 36VDC switcher module that runs from standard house power. I do like what I collect to be useful in some way, so I'd like to know what OS's I could use with the system, and if there are any 'gotchas' where hardware is concerned. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Sep 8 10:23:51 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000908074910.3c071f2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000907214541.024cbef0@pc> <3.0.1.16.20000907221720.348fdde6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000908091503.0249fee0@pc> At 07:49 AM 9/8/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >Yes, it's blue with brushed aluminium around the top. I think I saw the >letters MCZ n it but I'll check to be sure. I'd love to get a copy of the >disks and any manuals that you have. Mine's a model 05-1014-00. Back in 1997, I chatted with Fritz Chwolka about the one he owns. He has a unique name, he's easy to find in web searches. He's active in the German CP/M community. Perhaps you can find him. I found three or four various e-mail addresses in a search this morning. - John From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Sep 8 10:18:15 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: "Kevin L. Anderson"'s message of "Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:49:56 -0500 (CDT)" References: Message-ID: <200009081518.IAA46143@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Kevin L. Anderson" wrote: > My son was given an HP Portable Plus (Model 110 I believe). > It looks good, complete with Word and Lotus in the software > "drawer". Unfortunately it lacks the external power supply/ > recharger, so I don't know if it works. Model 110 is the "HP Portable": 16-line screen, Bell 103 (300 bps) modem, and no drawers (the RAM size and built-in application set are fixed). The "Portable Plus" is usually called that, or "110 Plus", although it has the unwieldy model number of 45711. The power supply that you probably want (being in North America) is HP p/n 82509D: it's the same thing as used for a lot of HP's portable computers, and I think the 41C rechargable battery pack. (There are other variants on this for places with other input voltages and/or mechanical wall outlet configurations.) Output is 8VAC, 3A, which should be applied to the two pins in the rectangular socket on the back of the Plus (not the trapezoidal ones which are HP-IL connectors). If the Plus doesn't hold a charge, the battery is replaceable. -Frank McConnell From dlw at trailingedge.com Fri Sep 8 10:52:16 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Robotwars? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39B8C4E0.29327.5F24B0@localhost> I have that. It was a lot of fun. No it didn't allow multi-players to link up. You each programmed you own robot and then loaded the robots into the arena and then sat back and watched them slug it out. Damn, now I think I'm going to have to dig it out and play it again. On 7 Sep 2000, at 21:52, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone remember Robotwars for the Apple ][? It was written by > Silas Warner and published by Muse. > > This was a multi-player game. Did it by any chance allow two people > on separate computers to play against each other by any sort of > link-up between the machines? > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue > and Danger > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 8 10:12:50 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Rescue opportunity In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000908082220.00987530@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Sep 2000, Bruce Lane wrote: > I may have an opportunity to pick up a "DataPoint" system... the one with > the CPU in one module, storage in another, and they all sit on the floor > (or table -- they're small!) and stack together side-by-side, joined with > bus connectors on said sides? Each module is powered by an external 36VDC > switcher module that runs from standard house power. Datapoint made some very amazing stuff for their day. I have a whole pile of "modules" (CPUs, terminals, disk drives, tape drives, etc.) that I got from a former developer. > I do like what I collect to be useful in some way, so I'd like to know > what OS's I could use with the system, and if there are any 'gotchas' where > hardware is concerned. They used a proprietary OS that was explained to me thusly: It was multi-user and network-centric. When you logged on, your account specified what nodes and resources on the network (ARCnet!) you could utilize. And this access was not just limited to your local network, it was global in scope. So for instance, you could have access to hard drive storage in location A, a processor in location B, a printer in location C, etc. The network was like one big homogenous computer. The OS was apparently very robust. From what I'm told, Datapoint took the stance that if an application crashed the machine, the application was not buggy, the OS was! Too bad this correct philosophy is not shared by every company that makes an OS. I can probably get the OS from the guy I got my stuff from. He'll probably even agree to help you get it up and running should you be so inclined. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Sep 8 11:24:10 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: IBM Monitor Message-ID: Pointer to powerdisplay20 specifications http://www.hms.labinf.it/pagine/ibm/pagine/periph/pd20.htm Discontinued 9/12/1995 From emu at ecubics.com Fri Sep 8 11:31:29 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> <39B82CDD.84B0112F@rain.org> <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <39B91461.ED1812EF@ecubics.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > > Yes, they will run NetBSD but NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives yet. If > you have SCSI drives attached to the KZQSA then you're in luck there. NetBSD supports the KZQSA ? Since when ? cheers From ss at allegro.com Fri Sep 8 11:44:25 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: HP 7878A tape drive available in Sacramento, CA Message-ID: <39B8B4F9.18559.2403328B@localhost> Hi, There's an HP 7978A tape drive (HP-IB, 6250 BPI) available for free (I think), for pickup in Sacramento, CA. The drive is currently in-use, working (AFAIK). This is a 5' high cabinet, about 3' deep, 2.5' wide. Email me if you're interested. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 8 12:05:06 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <39B91461.ED1812EF@ecubics.com> References: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> <39B82CDD.84B0112F@rain.org> <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000908100401.00de7af0@208.226.86.10> No, I didn't mean to say that, I meant to say KFQSA. Sigh. The sentence should read: "...if you have SCSI drives attached *or* the KFQSA then you are in luck there." --Chuck At 10:31 AM 9/8/00 -0600, you wrote: >Chuck McManis wrote: > > > > Yes, they will run NetBSD but NetBSD doesn't support DSSI drives yet. If > > you have SCSI drives attached to the KZQSA then you're in luck there. > >NetBSD supports the KZQSA ? Since when ? > >cheers From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 8 14:09:48 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: IBM Monitor In-Reply-To: <6.b320ba7.26e96c67@aol.com> Message-ID: >Does anybody have the specs for an IBM POWERdisplay 20, p/n 09G3821? > >I searched all over IBM's website. It's like it is yesterday's model >(which it is) and they only wanna tell you about the latest and greatest. Great monitors, but I have seen a couple batches show up at auctions with "bad cpus" and those can apparently be a chore to locate replacements for. I know I am glad I didn't buy them when I had the chance at $3 each, and the guy that bought them at the next auction for $25 was happy as a clam (he had replacement parts). BTW thats about all I know, except I am sure I found some info with lots of dogpile.com type searches. From vaxman at uswest.net Fri Sep 8 12:47:14 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Robotwars? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, it didn't. You programmed your robot, loaded it into the arena, and ran it against your buddies robots. My friends and I had great fun geeking around with it... clint On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone remember Robotwars for the Apple ][? It was written by Silas > Warner and published by Muse. > > This was a multi-player game. Did it by any chance allow two people on > separate computers to play against each other by any sort of link-up > between the machines? > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 8 13:59:42 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000907235037.00ab74e0@208.226.86.10> (message from Chuck McManis on Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:57:30 -0700) References: <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> <4.3.1.2.20000907235037.00ab74e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20000908185942.4481.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck wrote: > The KA640 [...] > The ethernet is implemented on the CPU board as > well and thus this particular CPU needs the CPU bulkhead that supplys the > connector. The follow-on to this particular processor is the KA660 which is Is it possible to run a KA640 or KA660 in a BA123 (rather than a BA21x)? I assume they have S-box handles, but perhaps those could be removed? From kla at helios.augustana.edu Fri Sep 8 14:21:27 2000 From: kla at helios.augustana.edu (Kevin L. Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: HP 82059D 110v to 6v AC power adapter ? Message-ID: Following my earlier post requesting more information on the HP 110+ Portable Plus MS-DOS computer (model 45711E), I am on the possible lookout for an HP power supply, Model no. 82059D which would have supplied 6V to this Portable Plus computer from the 110v US mains. Apparently this same power adapter worked with other HP parts, so may exist more commonly. Anyone have a working one to part with? My apologies also for saying that Mike Simms' FAQ on the 1xx series of HP portables did not provide the information needed -- indeed it did. I just did not read close enough. Sorry, Mike! thanks for any help. Cheers, Kevin Anderson Bismarck, North Dakota, USA home: K9IUA@juno.com (alternate: kla@helios.augustana.edu) From donm at cts.com Fri Sep 8 14:33:22 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #355 In-Reply-To: <200009080028.UAA26921@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 cem14@cornell.edu wrote: > > Paul Brown wrote: > >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:11:52 -0500 > >Subject: Re: Windows CE and an OT rant > > > -snip- > >or > >take the long-respected brand name of Hewlett-Packard > >Instruments and start calling them "Agilent Technologies", a name > >that I haven't heard pronounced the same way twice, or again > > The worse part is that "agilent" is a very dumb name in many > languages; agile on one hand, "lent" ("slow" in most languages) > on the other. Or, 'you can BORROW my agility?' > The measurement/instrumentation half should have kept the > HP name. The agilent oxymoron actually fits the other one. > > Carlos. > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 8 15:15:01 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: 2nd life/info for IBM RS6000 type 7012? Message-ID: Um, the 5081 isn't really meant as a general-purpose monitor to my knowledge... its a part of the 5080 Graphics System, IBMs neato high-end CAD stuff... Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Sep 8 17:16:56 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000908171656.3f87d40a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Kevin, The charger output is 8 VAC. I don't know the current rating but it's probably about 100 or 200 Ma. HP uses the same charger for a lot of different things and they can often be found in surplus stores. The part number is HP 82059. It's a wall wart that's about 1 1/2" on each side. Joe At 09:49 AM 9/8/00 -0500, you wrote: >My son was given an HP Portable Plus (Model 110 I believe). >It looks good, complete with Word and Lotus in the software >"drawer". Unfortunately it lacks the external power supply/ >recharger, so I don't know if it works. > >Can anyone tell me what power supply I need and/or the >power requirements? The HP150faq does not give those >types of specifics that I can see. > >Thanks. > >Kevin Anderson >formerly of Augustana College, Rock Island IL >now in Bismarck, ND >home: K9IUA@juno.com (alternate kla@helios.augustana.edu) > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 8 12:42:19 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Need help on old parts?? In-Reply-To: <82.649db3.26e9ad6d@aol.com> from "Mzthompson@aol.com" at Sep 7, 0 10:48:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 339 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000908/7a81abbd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 8 12:57:03 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: from "Kevin L. Anderson" at Sep 8, 0 09:49:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1130 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000908/d69c8cd2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 8 13:03:02 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: <200009081518.IAA46143@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Sep 8, 0 08:18:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1227 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000908/2d8b4489/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 8 16:38:47 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <20000908213847.6197.qmail@brouhaha.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > The power supply that you probably want (being in North America) is HP > p/n 82509D: it's the same thing as used for a lot of HP's portable > computers, and I think the 41C rechargable battery pack. (There are Tony Duell wrote: > > Yes, it is used by the HP41 rechargeable pack. From memory, it's used > with : > > Topcats : HP91, HP92, HP95C (if you can find one!), HP97, HP97S > > HP41 rechargeable pack > HP82143 printer > HP82161 tape drive > HP82162 printer > HP82163 video interface > HP82164 RS232 interface > HP82165 GPIO interface > HP82168 modem (?) > HP82169 HPIB interface > HP9114 (A and B) disk drive > HP2225B, HP2225P Thinkjet printer > HP110, HP110+ And the HP-10 (not 10B or 10C), HP-19C, HP-71B, HP-75C, HP-75D, and the expansion pod for the HP-75. And the ET-14024, but perhaps fewer people have those than have the HP-95C. :-) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 8 16:40:31 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000907235037.00ab74e0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 07, 2000 11:57:30 PM Message-ID: <200009082140.OAA00335@shell1.aracnet.com> Chuck wrote: > Fortunately (unfortunately? :-)) I happen to be _very_ familiar with the > BA213 and this particular processor. The KA640 uses the SII chip for an > onboard DSSI interface, the disks are cabled to the CPU card through the Ah! Now I understand! Thanks! > DSSI drives (RF30 etc). The ethernet is implemented on the CPU board as > well and thus this particular CPU needs the CPU bulkhead that supplys the OK, I though the lack of ethernet was a little odd. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 8 16:32:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000908171656.3f87d40a@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Sep 8, 0 05:16:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1555 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000908/2670729c/attachment.ksh From west at tseinc.com Fri Sep 8 16:38:35 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: recycling finds - big iron - anyone interested? Message-ID: <001b01c019dd$2544b320$0101a8c0@jay> I stopped by a recycling facility today that I had forgotten about as a possible source. Here's some of the items they had, if anyone is interested contact me off-list for particulars. Amdahl - 9406, 6690, 6395. Many of each, about 12 cabinets altogether. The cabinets were mostly gutted, but the panels were still there. Several pallets of hard drives were removed but they still have those too. IBM - 3088. Looks complete. They also had a 4300 that had been stripped to virtually just the frame. Probably no interest there :) DEC - a 11/73 chassis only w/power suppy and front panel. A microvax II. An 11/83 turbo. Plus, the following dec modules: M7516-YM, M7555, M7546, M7606-AF, M7622-AE, M7625-BA, QBUSBEC37 Jay West From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 8 16:38:28 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: <20000908213847.6197.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 8, 0 09:38:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 482 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000908/0ad24ae7/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Sep 8 14:25:29 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000908142132.0275ca60@pc> At 03:47 PM 8/30/00 -0400, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: >I can't speak to that, but I have it on very good faith that a Hostess >snack cake does not get baked. In fact, it never comes close to an >oven; the cakes are "catalyzed". A fun summer course I had in college dealt with various aspects of agriculture and production of food: I learned how they make the meat for McNugget-like products (cook the poultry, blow/smash it hard against a screen to remove the meat) and things like the pimientos in olives (grind actual peppers into paste, add gel, pour into sheet, then slice 'n insert) or the hardboiled eggs in the salad bar (separate eggs into whites and yolks, cook in special machine that makes a "tube egg" a yard long, slice), etc. - John From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Fri Sep 8 17:09:15 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: NeWS Message-ID: <20000908150915.C20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> I'd like to play with the NeWS system, since I've never seen it and am intrigued... Has anybody got anything at all related to this? Old Suns, old copies of SunOS which included it, docs, example programs, ... ? I'd like to buy a working setup. My main interest is that I'd like to build a similar system for cross- platform GUIs. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 8 17:31:26 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: NeWS In-Reply-To: <20000908150915.C20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Sep 08, 2000 03:09:15 PM Message-ID: <200009082231.PAA09597@shell1.aracnet.com> Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > I'd like to play with the NeWS system, since I've never seen it and > am intrigued... > > Has anybody got anything at all related to this? Old Suns, old copies > of SunOS which included it, docs, example programs, ... ? I'd like to > buy a working setup. > > My main interest is that I'd like to build a similar system for cross- > platform GUIs. Wasn't this an OS from Sony? However, saying that I seem to recall seeing something to do with it and Printers in some old Sun stuff. So I guess my question would be what exactly is it? Zane From spc at armigeron.com Fri Sep 8 18:02:33 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: NeWS In-Reply-To: <20000908150915.C20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Sep 08, 2000 03:09:15 PM Message-ID: <200009082302.TAA28558@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Shawn T. Rutledge once stated: > > I'd like to play with the NeWS system, since I've never seen it and > am intrigued... > > Has anybody got anything at all related to this? Old Suns, old copies > of SunOS which included it, docs, example programs, ... ? I'd like to > buy a working setup. It's based on PostScript and one of the neat features is you can add code to the server, thus cutting down on the protocol overhead (since it is a network graphics protocol). I don't have any information about it, but I do know that versions of IRIX prior to 4.0 are based on NeWS (IRIX is the Unix clone for SGIs) so if you can get a hold of an old (we're talking at least 10 years now) copy of IRIX, and the hardware to run it, you can play with NeWS. Interesting bit o' trivia: NeWS was written by James Gosling (sp?), the same person who initially created Java. -spc (Used NeWS, was upset when IRIX went X Windows ... ) From gregorym at cadvision.com Fri Sep 8 18:00:11 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: NeWS References: <200009082231.PAA09597@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <01d001c019e8$8b8db180$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:31 PM Subject: Re: NeWS > Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > I'd like to play with the NeWS system, since I've never seen it and > > am intrigued... > > > > Wasn't this an OS from Sony? However, saying that I seem to recall seeing > something to do with it and Printers in some old Sun stuff. > > So I guess my question would be what exactly is it? > > Zane > You mean everyone doesn't have a copy of The New Hacker's Dictionary on their desks? To quote the Jargon File: NeWS /nee'wis/, /n[y]oo'is/ or /n[y]ooz/ n. [acronym; the `Network Window System'] The road not taken in window systems, an elegant PostScript-based environment that would almost certainly have won the standards war with X if it hadn't been proprietary to Sun Microsystems. There is a lesson here that too many software vendors haven't yet heeded. Many hackers insist on the two-syllable pronunciations above as a way of distinguishing NeWS from Usenet news (the netnews software). Cheers, Mark. From spc at armigeron.com Fri Sep 8 18:09:43 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: NeWS In-Reply-To: <200009082231.PAA09597@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Sep 08, 2000 03:31:26 PM Message-ID: <200009082309.TAA28723@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great healyzh@aracnet.com once stated: > > Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > I'd like to play with the NeWS system, since I've never seen it and > > am intrigued... > > > > My main interest is that I'd like to build a similar system for cross- > > platform GUIs. > > So I guess my question would be what exactly is it? > NeWS (NEtwork Window System or Network Extensible Windowing System, not really sure which one) was written by James Gosling at Sun (and he's still there, working on Java last I heard), probably around the time MIT was working on the initial versions of X Windows. Like X it is server/client (only in these cases, the server is in front of the user and the client could be down the hall. Most people think this is backwards but technically it isn't) but because of Postscript, a client could send code to the server and have it execute there instead of transmitting packets back and forth (for example, Xeyes is a rather network heavy program (a pair of eyes track the mouse cursor). Under NeWS, the ``eyes'' program could be set to the server and executed there, and thus no network traffic at all be sent). Because of that, it could be used in low bandwidth situations. Pitty it never took off, but I think licensing issues (from both Sun and Adobe) pretty much killed it off. -spc (And it was surprisingly fast. At least on SGI hardware, which is where I only ever saw it ... ) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 8 19:05:53 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? References: <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> <4.3.1.2.20000907235037.00ab74e0@208.226.86.10> <20000908185942.4481.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <39B97EE1.7E8720DA@mcmanis.com> Eric Smith wrote: > Is it possible to run a KA640 or KA660 in a BA123 (rather than a BA21x)? > I assume they have S-box handles, but perhaps those could be removed? Nope, the cab kit on the BA123 (and BA23) is incompatible with the one on the KA640 and KA660. One could kludge something together perhaps. In this case the "Sbox" handles are actually a separate cab kit that plugs into the CPU card with an IDC type connector. The cab hit holds on to the BA213 with a couple of half-twist screws. The best you can do in a BA123 "legally" is the KA655 (MicroVAX 3+) that does about 2.8VUPs. --Chuck From emu at ecubics.com Fri Sep 8 19:22:21 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? References: <4.3.1.2.20000907211020.02ff9840@208.226.86.10> <4.3.1.2.20000907235037.00ab74e0@208.226.86.10> <20000908185942.4481.qmail@brouhaha.com> <39B97EE1.7E8720DA@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <39B982BD.D09641D4@ecubics.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > The best you can do in a BA123 "legally" is the KA655 (MicroVAX 3+) that > does about 2.8VUPs. Nope ;-) The Ka650 is about 2.7 VUPS, the Ka655 is 3.8 VUPS. Cheers From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Fri Sep 8 20:18:38 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: NeWS In-Reply-To: <200009082302.TAA28558@armigeron.com>; from spc@armigeron.com on Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 07:02:33PM -0400 References: <20000908150915.C20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> <200009082302.TAA28558@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <20000908181838.G20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Sep 08, 2000 at 07:02:33PM -0400, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > do know that versions of IRIX prior to 4.0 are based on NeWS (IRIX is the > Unix clone for SGIs) so if you can get a hold of an old (we're talking at > least 10 years now) copy of IRIX, and the hardware to run it, you can play > with NeWS. OK, I didn't realize that. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Sep 8 20:41:11 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000908091503.0249fee0@pc> References: <3.0.1.16.20000908074910.3c071f2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20000907214541.024cbef0@pc> <3.0.1.16.20000907221720.348fdde6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.1.20000908213419.00af9560@206.231.8.2> Greetings Joe and John, I've got one of those devel systems too along with s/w and manuals. Haven't fired mine up in a _long_ time either. Used RIO of some version too. Simple OS. My memory is real fuzzy on it now even though I used to occasionally use it at work (mid-80's). I wonder if the disks are still okay (bitrot)? It's in storage and I really should drag it out to the house before winter. Books and s/w buried up in the attic along with a million other things. Let me know if you cannot find all the docs and s/w. Regards, Chris -- -- Upon the date 10:23 AM 9/8/00 -0500, John Foust said something like: >At 07:49 AM 9/8/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >>Yes, it's blue with brushed aluminium around the top. I think I saw the >>letters MCZ n it but I'll check to be sure. I'd love to get a copy of the >>disks and any manuals that you have. > >Mine's a model 05-1014-00. > >Back in 1997, I chatted with Fritz Chwolka about the one he owns. >He has a unique name, he's easy to find in web searches. He's active >in the German CP/M community. Perhaps you can find him. I found >three or four various e-mail addresses in a search this morning. > >- John Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From elmo at mminternet.com Fri Sep 8 21:16:59 2000 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: SOL floppy subsystem options References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB100@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <39B99D9A.C974CD9A@mminternet.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Processor Technology had a HD system they called "Helios", > which used (IIRC) Micropolis hard-sectored disks (they > may have been "firm-sectored" tho). I think most went the > NorthStar route, tho. I have a Helios in my closet. Will consider all offers; contact me off-list. Regards, Eliot From leec at slip.net Fri Sep 8 22:06:02 2000 From: leec at slip.net (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: recycling finds - big iron - anyone interested? In-Reply-To: <001b01c019dd$2544b320$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: Jay, Location? Lee Courtney President leec@slip.net Monterey Software Group Inc. 1350 Pear Avenue, Suite J Mountain View, California 94043-1302 U.S.A. 650-964-7052 voice 650-964-6735 fax Advanced Authentication, Audit, and Access Control Tools and Consulting for HP3000 Business Servers http://www.editcorp.com/Businesses/MontereySoftware > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 2:39 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: recycling finds - big iron - anyone interested? > > > I stopped by a recycling facility today that I had forgotten about as a > possible source. Here's some of the items they had, if anyone is > interested > contact me off-list for particulars. > > Amdahl - 9406, 6690, 6395. Many of each, about 12 cabinets altogether. The > cabinets were mostly gutted, but the panels were still there. Several > pallets of hard drives were removed but they still have those too. > > IBM - 3088. Looks complete. They also had a 4300 that had been stripped to > virtually just the frame. Probably no interest there :) > > DEC - a 11/73 chassis only w/power suppy and front panel. A > microvax II. An > 11/83 turbo. Plus, the following dec modules: M7516-YM, M7555, M7546, > M7606-AF, M7622-AE, M7625-BA, QBUSBEC37 > > Jay West > > > > > From west at tseinc.com Fri Sep 8 22:04:04 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: recycling finds - big iron - anyone interested? References: Message-ID: <001901c01a0a$9d729060$0101a8c0@jay> Aw heck.... sorry folks... I seem to forget not EVERYONE knows where I live. ;) The gear is in St. Louis. Suprisingly, no one's spoken for the Amdahl gear yet Jay West From at258 at osfn.org Fri Sep 8 22:26:47 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Spliff In-Reply-To: <39B97EE1.7E8720DA@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: With the help of Doug Quebbeman and Steve Robertson and Kevin Davidson of QS Technologies, we repatriated a very nice Pr1me 9650 system with Centronics printer from Greenville, SC back to New England. We apprecaite all the assitance, and are looking forward to the day when we pull it out of its temporary storage and get it running again. From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Sep 8 22:32:58 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Need teletype resources Message-ID: <20000908223258.W25130@mrbill.net> I just registered TELETYPE.ORG, and will be putting up a web site with info about the company and equipment and technology... any URLs of info or pictures would be welcome (especially pictures). All I've gotten right now is the thread from TELECOM DIGEST from a few years back about AT&T's dropping of telegraph service.. Thanks. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From west at tseinc.com Fri Sep 8 22:37:29 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Spliff References: Message-ID: <002701c01a0f$48bf44a0$0101a8c0@jay> You wrote.... > With the help of Doug Quebbeman and Steve Robertson and Kevin Davidson of > QS Technologies, we repatriated a very nice Pr1me 9650 system with > Centronics printer from Greenville, SC back to New England. We > apprecaite all the assitance, and are looking forward to the day when we > pull it out of its temporary storage and get it running again. I spent a fairly large part of my career on Pr1me's. I still have a complete set of docs for them and remember a fair amount. If you need any assistance getting it up and running, drop me a line. Actually, I still maintain contact with an ex field engineer from Pr1me, which may help you out. Jay West From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Sep 8 23:57:50 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:03:02 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200009090457.VAA68882@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote (after me): > > mechanical wall outlet configurations.) Output is 8VAC, 3A, which > > Probably a typo, but it could be serious. The output is 8V, 3VA (not 3A). > The output current is therefore 0.375A. Also the regulation Tony is absolutely correct (as usual). I plead stupidity: I should have put my glasses on before reading the front of the adapter. Have to admit I wondered how it thought it could fit 3A down those skinny wires that go to the output plug. BTW, the Fedco battery packs (3x Gates Cyclon cells in series, held together with a big piece of heat-shrunk tubing) that I got from iGo do work. I've ordered another batch from another online seller (trying to save a few bucks) and will post a note when they've arrived and I've had time to install them. -Frank McConnell From pdp-11 at swbell.net Mon Sep 11 00:52:41 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Great New Find: Olivetti L1 Computer Message-ID: <005401c01bb4$800d6a80$52713ed8@compaq> I just picked up an Olivetti L1 Computer at Goodwill. The CPU, keyboard, and disk drives are in one unit, kind of like an Apple III. The monitor is seperate, and gets its power from the main unit. All the main keys have BASIC statement on them (PRINT, OPEN, INPUT, etc...). When it boots up, it says: Bootstrap Loader Version 1.0 Insert Disk And Press Enter. Does anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find any information on the internet. Does it have BASIC in ROM? If so, how do I get to it? If anyone has any disks or manuals, that would be great! Thanks, Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000911/1bf0e9ce/attachment.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Sep 9 02:14:40 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Great New Find: Olivetti L1 Computer References: <005401c01bb4$800d6a80$52713ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <00bd01c01a2d$9f5e9400$5d12f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> I just picked up an Olivetti L1 Computer at Goodwill. The CPU, keyboard, and disk drives are in one unit, kind of like an Apple III. The monitor is seperate, and gets its power from the main unit. All the main keys have BASIC statement on them (PRINT, OPEN, INPUT, etc...). When it boots up, it says: Bootstrap Loader Version 1.0 Insert Disk And Press Enter. Does anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find any information on the internet. Does it have BASIC in ROM? If so, how do I get to it? If anyone has any disks or manuals, that would be great! Thanks, Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000909/4c11b608/attachment.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Sep 9 02:16:11 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Great New Find: Olivetti L1 Computer References: <005401c01bb4$800d6a80$52713ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <00d201c01a2d$d54b3460$5d12f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> I think that perhaps you have an M20, which is in the L1 series. Have a look at this page: http://www.rgmconsultants.it/tix/lista/dati/m20.htm and see if that doesn't look something like your unit. There's some specs for the M20 at: http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_029.htm#M20 I just picked up an Olivetti L1 Computer at Goodwill. The CPU, keyboard, and disk drives are in one unit, kind of like an Apple III. The monitor is seperate, and gets its power from the main unit. All the main keys have BASIC statement on them (PRINT, OPEN, INPUT, etc...). When it boots up, it says: Bootstrap Loader Version 1.0 Insert Disk And Press Enter. Does anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find any information on the internet. Does it have BASIC in ROM? If so, how do I get to it? If anyone has any disks or manuals, that would be great! Thanks, Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000909/97012a61/attachment.html From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Sep 9 02:24:53 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:24 2005 Subject: Great New Find: Olivetti L1 Computer References: <005401c01bb4$800d6a80$52713ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <00e301c01a2f$0cc38860$5d12f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Here's another version of the M20: http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/computermuseum/m20d.html From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 9 03:14:56 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: VAX me, baby! Message-ID: OK, I will love anyone forever who can find me a VAX 9000 (model 440 for preference, nothing like 157 VUPS), or better still, a VAX 10000. Hell, even a BI system would be nice... Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sat Sep 9 05:57:48 2000 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000908091503.0249fee0@pc> Message-ID: <13XhO6-2BBBeCC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:23:51 -0500, John Foust wrote: >At 07:49 AM 9/8/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >>Yes, it's blue with brushed aluminium around the top. I think I saw the >>letters MCZ n it but I'll check to be sure. I'd love to get a copy of the >>disks and any manuals that you have. > >Mine's a model 05-1014-00. > >Back in 1997, I chatted with Fritz Chwolka about the one he owns. >He has a unique name, he's easy to find in web searches. He's active Ohhh a unique name -- isn't it . Thanks John that he remember - I lost a lot of mails and hope mow for new MC-Z users (collectors will be the better word) I didn't fired up my MC-Z (I have 3) for some years. For one of them I have no systenmdisks. I have MC-Z 1-05 / 1-30 / 1-15 and for 1-15(30) the manuals . The 1-05 is a little beakfastbox -) and wery smart. there I have a 3 diskdrive rack with shugart drives and 4 terminals. bad that I have no bootsisks for it. The other ones are big and have hard-sectored disks. >in the German CP/M community. Perhaps you can find him. I found >three or four various e-mail addresses in a search this morning. > >- John Look at http://www.zfest.de or http://www.gaby.de for information about german CP/M friends Fritz Chwolka /collecting old computers just for fun\ From mark_k at iname.com Sat Sep 9 13:58:19 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Panasonic 8" Optical Drive Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 Joe wrote: > At 05:03 PM 9/7/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Anyone familiar with: > > > >Panasonic 8" optical Drive > >Removeable Cartridges > >Model DU-15LU > >Manufactured 1987 by Mitsushita (sp?) > > > >Someone gave me a call today to see if I had one. I don't and told him I > >would put it out to the listserver. Also, are there any other units by other > >companies that will read these cartridges? The main concern here is data > >recovery. The second concern is that I will then see if I can obtain that > >computer :)! My understanding is that only five of these units were sold in > >the US and four were returned since they were not networkable (fact or > >fiction?) > > Marvin, > > If it's what I think it is then I have two NIB optical disks for it. > They're Panasonic part number TQ-FD22 and they're made by Matsushita > Electric Industrial Co in Japan. Make an offer if you're interested in the > disks. FWIW these are more surplus from NASA KSC. These may not be compatible with the DU-15LU drive, assuming that drive is for computer data storage and not video recording. Try to compare pictures of the two types of disks. Panasonic/Matsushita used to make optical disk video recorders for the professional market that used 8" disks. The model numbers of the recorders and players begin with TQ-, so I suspect the TQ-FD22 disks are for the video recorders. FWIW, going to eBay and searching for Panasonic TQ should bring up some listings for the players/recorders. TQ-2026F is a player/recorder, and TQ-2027F a player. The recording method used by these might be analogue given their age. -- Mark From frederik at freddym.org Sat Sep 9 10:11:54 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: DEC Vax questions? In-Reply-To: <39B83504.CDD84160@home.net> Message-ID: Hi! > MS650/M7621 KA640/M7624 KA640 Processor is supported. > DSV11-SA/M3108 Serial Line interface > M9060-YA > KSQSA/M5976-SA DSSI?! > TQK70/M7559-00 Tape Drive controller for the TK70 in the front. > Can these machines run Linux or NetBSD. Where do I get OpenVMS? And yes > I'm pretty sure that we are licensed for VMS (Corp ITS is crazy about > that kind of thing!). NetBSD will run. I don't like Linux on VAXes because NetBSD is IMO much better. VMS will run too. Become a DECUS member, get your OpenVMS License on www.montagar.com and orger some kits there, too. -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From mark_k at iname.com Sat Sep 9 14:45:58 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 Message-ID: Hi, I picked up a couple of Epson PX-4 handheld/laptop computers a few weeks ago. Have not got around to testing them yet. Any identifying text which used to be on the rear labels is no longer there. There is space for a plug-in device/cartridge on the righthand side above the keyboard. Both computers have what appears to be a 1 megabyte static RAM cartridge (possibly battery-backed) in this space. These must have been quite expensive when new. I opened up one of the cartridges. Text on one of the PCBs inside mentioned (from memory) POCKET COMPUTERS LTD 1993, so these are quite recent. In the EPROM sockets underneath the computer is some kind of auditing program; the label read Pocket Computers Ltd AUDITOR V5.2 The labels also mention CP/M 2.2. A web search for "Pocket Computers" Auditor didn't turn up anything. Does anyone have any information on this company? -- Mark From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Sep 9 15:08:37 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >A web search for "Pocket Computers" Auditor didn't turn up anything. Does >anyone have any information on this company? Try www.epson.com From donm at cts.com Sat Sep 9 14:20:36 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Mark wrote: > Hi, > > I picked up a couple of Epson PX-4 handheld/laptop computers a few weeks ago. > Have not got around to testing them yet. Any identifying text which used to > be on the rear labels is no longer there. > > There is space for a plug-in device/cartridge on the righthand side above the > keyboard. Both computers have what appears to be a 1 megabyte static RAM > cartridge (possibly battery-backed) in this space. These must have been quite There were alternate modules available for that space including the RAM cartridge that yours has, a micro-tape drive and, IIRC, a modem. > expensive when new. I opened up one of the cartridges. Text on one of the > PCBs inside mentioned (from memory) POCKET COMPUTERS LTD 1993, so these are > quite recent. > > In the EPROM sockets underneath the computer is some kind of auditing program; > the label read > Pocket Computers Ltd > AUDITOR V5.2 > The labels also mention CP/M 2.2. > > A web search for "Pocket Computers" Auditor didn't turn up anything. Does > anyone have any information on this company? Take a look at ftp.epson.com/pub/hxpxqx/ where you will find a number of files about the HX-20 including a listing of software sources. Perhaps Pocket Computers is listed there. - don > > > -- Mark > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Sep 9 14:54:39 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Stuff for free and sale Message-ID: <200009091954.MAA03272@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Hi: Well, it's time for spring^H^H^H^H^H^Hfall cleaning, some for free, some not. I have a Prowriter dot matrix printer in unknown condition (cosmetically good). Free to the first person who picks it up. No, I will not ship it. I'm in San Bernardino, Calif. area. It's too big for me to keep now that I have a new Panasonic 24-pin printer for the C128. It will go to the dump in a couple of weeks if unclaimed. I also have two Apple monitors; one, a composite monitor designed for the IIgs (but works with any Apple II), and a small RGB monitor that went with my Mac IIsi (15-pin). Both work 100%. I'd like to trade for, in particular, M100/NEC8201A RAM modules, but am asking $25 apiece or best offer plus shipping. Priority goes to anyone who can pick them up, since it saves me having to drive them to the post office. I have Commodore monitors coming out my ears and since they can take S-video and analogue RGB, they're much more useful to me than these Apple ones. The monitors will go to eBay in a couple of weeks if unclaimed. I'm also not taking any of this up to VCF since I'll be dragging enough up with me (an SX-64, a Tomy Tutor, several Commodore monitors for them, all the peripherals for the Tomy ...) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Room service? Send up a bigger room. -- Groucho Marx ----------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 9 14:43:51 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: <200009090457.VAA68882@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Sep 8, 0 09:57:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 745 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000909/6c7bfb2d/attachment.ksh From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Sep 9 16:13:58 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Need teletype resources In-Reply-To: <20000908223258.W25130@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <4.1.20000909162415.00b10320@206.231.8.2> Hi Bill and others interested in teleprinters, whether they be Teletype, Friden, Creed or etc., used as computer I/O devices (terminals), Contact Don House at NADCOMM, if you haven't already. North American Data COMmunications Museum. He's curator of the museum out there in Fallbrook, Cal. The group preserves teleprinter, telefax and other such data communications devices that communicated primarily over wire -typically thru the phone system. Teletype gear is heavily evident as most of the group has had considerable contact with the brand and lots of it is available to preserve. Don's email is: "Don Robert House" . NADCOMM's URL is: http://www.nadcomm.org Additionally there are several of us on this list who are interested in and collect TTY and other such gear who are on the Greenkeys email list. (Greenkeys being a name in honor of the green keys on the keyboard of the Teletype Model 28.) Once again for those newer ClassicCmp folks who may be interested you may subscibe as follows: Go to www.qth.net and look in the left-hand frame for the pull-down list with "Select List" in it. Pull down, scroll down to 'Greenkeys' and click on it, type in your email address, click 'Submit Request' and wait for next instruction to come to you by email in a minute or so. Small group but a lot of interesting tech info and TTY lore has been presented. They are aware of myself and others who use ASR 33's as a computer I/O device and not just for landline communications or amateur radio teletype (RTTY). "GreenKeys is a mailing list (reflector) devoted to the discussion of older radio teletype (RTTY) gear including mechanical teleprinters, terminal units, rolls of paper, gears, cams, wingnuts, paper tape, and anything else related to older RTTY gear. * Teletype Machines * Teletype Corp History * Maintenance, Preservation * Buy, Sell * Sources of Supplies * Terminal Units * Collectors * Electrical, Electronic, Mechanical * Anything Else RTTY Related" Upon the date 10:32 PM 9/8/00 -0500, Bill Bradford said something like: >I just registered TELETYPE.ORG, and will be putting up a web site with >info about the company and equipment and technology... any URLs of >info or pictures would be welcome (especially pictures). All I've >gotten right now is the thread from TELECOM DIGEST from a few years >back about AT&T's dropping of telegraph service.. Good luck with your new website Bill! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Sep 9 19:08:37 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? Message-ID: <200009100008.RAA10602@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Incidentally, is there some sort of "Mac slowdown" utility? I have a Mac program running on my SE/30 that was intended for the Mac Plus, and it runs way too quickly on the SE (it's a game, of course -- who remembers ZeroGravity?). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Don't let 'em drive you crazy when it's within walking distance. ----------- From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Sat Sep 9 23:12:55 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009100008.RAA10602@stockholm.ptloma.edu>; from spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu on Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 05:08:37PM -0700 References: <200009100008.RAA10602@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20000909211255.L20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 05:08:37PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Incidentally, is there some sort of "Mac slowdown" utility? I have a Mac > program running on my SE/30 that was intended for the Mac Plus, and it > runs way too quickly on the SE (it's a game, of course -- who remembers > ZeroGravity?). Uh, install a newer MacOS? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From donm at cts.com Sat Sep 9 23:23:08 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > BTW, the Fedco battery packs (3x Gates Cyclon cells in series, held > > together with a big piece of heat-shrunk tubing) that I got from iGo > > do work. I've ordered another batch from another online seller > > I'm not suprised they're fine. The service manual shows this type of > battery in one of the photographs. > > You can buy the loose cells (at least over here you can) and wire then up > yourself. I intend doing that to my Portable Plus fairly soon -- I'll let > the list know how I get on. It may not be any cheaper to do this, but I > think the cells are easier to get than the packs. > > Incidentally, does anyone know of a UK source of the large heat-shrink > sleeving used on battery packs? Nobody seems to list it in the catalogues. And typically, if you can find something large enough the wall thickness is vastly heavier than you need/want! - don > -tony > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Sep 9 23:39:12 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <20000909211255.L20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at "Sep 9, 0 09:12:55 pm" Message-ID: <200009100439.VAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Incidentally, is there some sort of "Mac slowdown" utility? I have a Mac > > program running on my SE/30 that was intended for the Mac Plus, and it > > runs way too quickly on the SE (it's a game, of course -- who remembers > > ZeroGravity?). > > Uh, install a newer MacOS? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist > You want to know the really ironic part? It runs at the right speed on my Power Mac 7300! :-) The problem is that there's no sound on the 7300 (i.e., the game can't seem to play any music on it) ... if I could figure that out, I should be good, but it just looks so much *better* on the SE/30 and the screen it was originally intended for. Were the older Macs 8-bit mono output? Lower sampling rate ... ? By the way, the SE/30 is running System 6.0.2. (The 7300 is running 8.1, but not for long -- I'm going to get OS 9 Real Soon Now.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you. ----------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 10 00:08:05 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009100439.VAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Sep 09, 2000 09:39:12 PM Message-ID: <200009100508.WAA06778@shell1.aracnet.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > By the way, the SE/30 is running System 6.0.2. (The 7300 is running 8.1, > but not for long -- I'm going to get OS 9 Real Soon Now.) Are you sure you want to go to MacOS 9? The question would be how many of your old apps won't work. I'm lucky enough to have one of the first G4/450's that came with MacOS 8.6/G4, and that's where it's sitting at least until 10 comes out. I don't see any reason to move off 8.6 for 9 and it breaks stuff I need (namely eXodus, which I don't want to pay to upgrade). For that matter my 8500/180 is still sitting at 8.1 with no plans to move it off of that. I think my PB540c is sitting at 7.1.x. The question is which version of the OS best suits the way that you're using the system. I'm still undecided as to weather I'll even bother upgrading the G4 off of 8.6/G4 to 10. However, I probably will for the Unix layer and the ability to use NFS. One real important question is to find out what kind of X-Windows software will be available. I think it's Tenon will have a Beta of thier Xserver as soon as the OSX beta is publically available. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 10 00:13:16 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <20000909211255.L20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> from "Shawn T. Rutledge" at Sep 09, 2000 09:12:55 PM Message-ID: <200009100513.WAA07252@shell1.aracnet.com> Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Uh, install a newer MacOS? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist That only works about half the time :^) Sometimes it's actually faster. There were at least a couple releases that were faster. Zane From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Sep 10 09:34:31 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Need teletype resources Message-ID: <200009101434.KAA19004@drs-esg.com> > I just registered TELETYPE.ORG, and will be putting up a web site with > info about the company and equipment and technology... any URLs of > info or pictures would be welcome (especially pictures). All I've > gotten right now is the thread from TELECOM DIGEST from a few years > back about AT&T's dropping of telegraph service.. > Don't have good pictures yet. When I tear it down for the next cleaning I was going to take some. Another site is http://www.rtty.com/ also see http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/teletype_news.txt Various supplies http://www.westnc.com/ I have ASR-33 manuals online on my document page http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=teletype&stype=Partial+Word&fields=id%2Ctitle%2Cdate&debug=0&table=pdp8docs&orderby=sort%2Ctitle David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From r.stek at snet.net Sun Sep 10 09:46:59 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes Message-ID: Maybe I got a bargain, maybe I didn't. Help me decide. I won an auction for three paper tapes in excellent condition. All three are labeled with a DECUS sticker (and the main DECUS site is re-organizinf its software section, so there's no info there). All three have typewritten RSTS11-75 on them, then one has 8080.Bas 2/June/76, one has 8008.Bas 2/June/76, and the third has 8008.Doc 2/June/76. Supposedly these all came from MITS. Right now I don't have a paper tape reader (Doug Quebbeman has mine, and I haven't interfaced it to my Sol yet anyway). So, for starters, does anyone KNOW what these are? Any informed guesses beyond the obvious? Can anyone read them for me or make copies in a more "modern" format (i.e., CUTS cassette tape)? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Sep 10 10:20:56 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009100508.WAA06778@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Sep 9, 0 10:08:05 pm" Message-ID: <200009101520.IAA05922@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Are you sure you want to go to MacOS 9? The question would be how many of > your old apps won't work. I'm lucky enough to have one of the first > G4/450's that came with MacOS 8.6/G4, and that's where it's sitting at least > until 10 comes out. I don't see any reason to move off 8.6 for 9 and it > breaks stuff I need (namely eXodus, which I don't want to pay to upgrade). Really? Yuck. The only reason I'm upgrading at all is because I want USB support. I wanted to get 8.6 but no one sells it anymore. Know a supplier? Or can I patch 8.1 to do this? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Police To Begin Campaign To Run Down Jaywalkers ------------- From rdd at smart.net Sun Sep 10 10:18:59 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <20000909211255.L20825@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:12:55 -0700 > From: Shawn T. Rutledge > Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac slow-down utility? > > On Sat, Sep 09, 2000 at 05:08:37PM -0700, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Incidentally, is there some sort of "Mac slowdown" utility? I have a Mac > > program running on my SE/30 that was intended for the Mac Plus, and it > > runs way too quickly on the SE (it's a game, of course -- who remembers > > ZeroGravity?). > > Uh, install a newer MacOS? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist Then, there's also another solution that's quicker and easier, involving a soldering iron and a certain component being repladed. :-) -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 10 10:55:57 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes Message-ID: <012e01c01b41$4f312960$a50f9a8d@ajp166> From: Robert Stek >Maybe I got a bargain, maybe I didn't. Help me decide. I won an auction >for three paper tapes in excellent condition. All three are labeled with a >DECUS sticker (and the main DECUS site is re-organizinf its software >section, so there's no info there). All three have typewritten RSTS11-75 on >them, then one has 8080.Bas 2/June/76, one has 8008.Bas 2/June/76, and the >third has 8008.Doc 2/June/76. Supposedly these all came from MITS. ??? MITS had nothing to do with DEC or RSTS11 OS. So my guess is they were user submissions of some basic programs not the MITS basic (billy gates would have fits over that one too). Also MITS never did anything with 8008 that I ever heard of. >So, for starters, does anyone KNOW what these are? Any informed guesses >beyond the obvious? Can anyone read them for me or make copies in a more >"modern" format (i.e., CUTS cassette tape)? Well the .bas suggest they could be basic but are they tokenized or ascii??? Allison From mcruse at acm.org Sun Sep 10 11:23:53 2000 From: mcruse at acm.org (Mike Cruse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes References: <012e01c01b41$4f312960$a50f9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39BBB599.C501DBC1@acm.org> They are possibly simulators for intel microprocessors of the day. I seem to remember an 8080 simulator written in DEC Basic Plus II around that time. Mike ajp166 wrote: > From: Robert Stek > > >Maybe I got a bargain, maybe I didn't. Help me decide. I won an > auction > >for three paper tapes in excellent condition. All three are labeled > with a > >DECUS sticker (and the main DECUS site is re-organizinf its software > >section, so there's no info there). All three have typewritten > RSTS11-75 on > >them, then one has 8080.Bas 2/June/76, one has 8008.Bas 2/June/76, and > the > >third has 8008.Doc 2/June/76. Supposedly these all came from MITS. > > ??? MITS had nothing to do with DEC or RSTS11 OS. So my guess is they > were user submissions of some basic programs not the MITS basic > (billy gates would have fits over that one too). Also MITS never did > anything > with 8008 that I ever heard of. > > >So, for starters, does anyone KNOW what these are? Any informed guesses > >beyond the obvious? Can anyone read them for me or make copies in a > more > >"modern" format (i.e., CUTS cassette tape)? > > Well the .bas suggest they could be basic but are they tokenized or > ascii??? > > Allison From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 10 11:23:08 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: HP 9000/500? Message-ID: Hmmm... I think there is a similar machine in a junkyard near me... worth getting? There is also a Ramtek system, a VAX 11/785, some big honkin' Tek 41xx series terms, etc. Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Sep 10 11:58:53 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: RCT Swap Report (Long) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000910095853.0097e410@pop.sttl.uswest.net> This year's Radio Club of Tacoma (WA) swap was both a miracle and a disappointment. It's rare that the two go together, I know, but it did in fact happen that way this year. I claim "appropriate posting" to the list for this because what I brought back is over ten years old, and can most definitely be used to troubleshoot computer systems. The miracle: Every so often, someone will show up with one or more pieces of hardware or test gear that are incredibly useful, are either working (but may be out of cal) or have only minor problems, are priced to move rather than at "E-pay average," and where the seller has little knowledge of just what it is they're moving. Such was the case yesterday morning, and the fact that I had gotten seller space this year, and was as a result able to walk around the place before they let the general public in, is the key reason I think I scored the following for all of $250. Two Tektronix digital scope mainframes: An 11401 and its GHz-capable counterpart, an 11402. Along with said mainframes came a total of four 11A32 plug-ins (two-channel vertical, 400 MHz official spec, but you know Tek always rates conservative), an 11A72 (up to 1 GHz two-channel vertical, 50 ohm inputs), and a big operator's manual about 2.5 inches thick. After I picked up my jaw off the floor, and wrote the guy a hasty check, I found, in the operator's manual, a postage-paid reply card from Tektronix that offered a free service manual for the whole works simply by filling it out and feeding it to the nearest USPS drop box. The 11401 mainframe had only one minor problem: It failed it's self-test at the A/D converter section. Said problem was completely cured by the simple expedient of disassembling the unit, vacuuming out the dust, and reseating the few socketed chips on the analog board. As for the '402, I'll try the same tactics on it 'cause I don't think anyone's tried it as yet. It's fine for the first hour or so. After that, if you power-cycle it, you get a failure in the timebase section for the 20 MHz clock. If you let it cool down a while, the failure goes away. I wager 1,000 Quatloos that this is another case of 'press the chips back down and vacuum.' Even if it's not, it still sounds like a minor part. As for the plug-ins, two of the four 11A32's fail their self-test with gain calibration errors for Channel 1. I'm not sure what's causing this, but I hope it's minor. My only other complaint: The '402 has some light screen burn. Fortunately, the CRT is nothing really special: Just a mono-green tube made by Mitsubishi. Bet I could even find a generic replacement. And now, the disappointment(s): The event was supposed to go until 15:00 local, but by 13:15 or so, everyone but the commercial sellers had cleared out. Also, the event itself was not well attended. I'd be surprised if we broke 1,000 people the entire day. As for variety of stuff, that worked out pretty well, but even here in the NW I'm starting to see less of people that want to tinker, and more of people that just want to 'plug-and-play.' I base this on the fact that I saw a LOT of "interesting" items in terms of older test gear, but practically none of it sold even though the prices seemed pretty reasonable (to my eyes). There was more than adequate seller space (three buildings worth), but the buildings were separated by several hundred feet of distance, and required considerable walking to cover. While the walking itself was not a problem, I found it annoying that everything was not all in one place, as it is with most other swaps. Finally, I think the club's timing was bad. There was a major computer swap meet (the AM Northwest people) held in Kent the same morning as the RCT event. They even started at the same time. I'm sure this was a drain on attendance because I've been to the AM-NW events, and they definitely run all day and are often quite packed. I'll be forwarding feedback to RCT on the above, along with suggestions for better timing and some other minor improvements. 'Til next time... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 10 12:05:18 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 10, 0 11:18:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 554 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000910/b580743b/attachment.ksh From owad at applefritter.com Sun Sep 10 12:29:31 2000 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009100439.VAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200009100439.VAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20000910172931.11439@mail.lafayette.edu> >The problem is that there's no sound on the 7300 (i.e., the game can't >seem to play any music on it) ... if I could figure that out, I >should be good, but it just looks so much *better* on the SE/30 and the >screen it was originally intended for. Were the older Macs 8-bit mono >output? Lower sampling rate ... ? > >By the way, the SE/30 is running System 6.0.2. (The 7300 is running 8.1, >but not for long -- I'm going to get OS 9 Real Soon Now.) You might try using vMac on the 7300. Or maybe install Multifinder on the SE/30 and try running Microsoft Word in the background. Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Sep 10 12:47:50 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes Message-ID: <000910134750.202014b5@trailing-edge.com> * Maybe I got a bargain, maybe I didn't. Help me decide. I won an auction * for three paper tapes in excellent condition. All three are labeled with a * DECUS sticker (and the main DECUS site is re-organizinf its software * section, so there's no info there). All three have typewritten RSTS11-75 on * them, then one has 8080.Bas 2/June/76, one has 8008.Bas 2/June/76, and the * third has 8008.Doc 2/June/76. Supposedly these all came from MITS. * * Right now I don't have a paper tape reader (Doug Quebbeman has mine, and I * haven't interfaced it to my Sol yet anyway). * So, for starters, does anyone KNOW what these are? Any informed guesses * beyond the obvious? Can anyone read them for me or make copies in a more * "modern" format (i.e., CUTS cassette tape)? What you have is one of 147 entries from the DECUS RSTS-11 library. They are already available on-the-web through the collections at http://pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ just click on "RSTS-11 library entries" and go the the RSTS-11-75 entry, specifically RSTS-11-75 8008.BAS and 8080.BAS, Version: May 1975 _________________________________________________________________ Author: R. J. Tapp and G. D. Young, University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C., Canada Source Language: BASIC-PLUS, Memory Required: 8K Abstract: These are cross-assemblers for the 8008 and 8080 microprocessors which use a language similar to Intel's standard assembly language: instruction mnemonics are identical, but pseudo-instructions and expression formats are slightly different. Output is in the form of an assembly listing, alphabetical symbol table and object code in standard Intel hex format. Note: See also DECUS No. 11-113. Documentation on Magnetic Media. Media Price Codes: G26, H30, M50 _________________________________________________________________ Filename Size (kbytes) 8008.BAS 7.5 8008.DOC 13.5 8080.BAS 10.5 Other RSTS-11 entries available include * RSTS-11-1 EDITOR.BAS (and EDITIN), Vervion: 6A, July 1973 * RSTS-11-2 Utilities, Editors and Hangman, Version: February 1973 * RSTS-11-3 Text Editor for RSTS, Version: February 1973 * RSTS-11-5 CREATE and CREAT1, Version: April 1973 * RSTS-11-6 RESEQ: Program Resequencing, Version: January 1974 * RSTS-11-7 Accounting Package, Version: March 1973 * RSTS-11-8 System Status Display -- Hazeltine 2000, Version: April 1973 * RSTS-11-10 Project DELTA Educational Package, Section B, Statistics Programs, Version: June 1973 * RSTS-11-12 Project DELTA Educational PaduW, Section D, Electronics and Production Oriented Programs, Version: June 1973 * RSTS-11-13 Games, Puzzles and Recreation--1, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-14 Games, Puzzles and Recreation--2, Version: September 1973 * RSTS-11-15 LSFORM: LS11 Centronix Line-Printer Driver for RSTS V4A, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-16 TALK: Inter Terminal Communications Program, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-17 TEXTED, Version: July 1973 * RSTS-11-18 GERMAN: Adjective Ending Game and Data File Editor, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-19 FAST; ECONMY, ECON2; ONIONS, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-20 TREK: Star Trek Game, Version: October 1974 * RSTS-11-21 ROBOT and FIX, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-22 TUTR: BASIC Tutoring Programs, Version: November 1973 * RSTS-11-23 NAMES and CEMGEN: Computerized Question Generation, Version: November 1973 * RSTS-11-24 BASIC-PLUS Demos, Version: July 1973 * RSTS-11-25 BRAVO, Version: September 1973 * RSTS-11-26 ROTATE, POLY, PLOTIO, XYPLOT, Version: June 1973 * RSTS-11-27 GENES, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-28 MODIFY: Line Editor for RSTS-BASIC, Version: October 1973 * RSTS-11-29 EDIT, Version: August 1973 * RSTS-11-30 COSAP: Conversationally Oriented Statistical Analysis Package, Version: January 1974 * RSTS-11-31 INRAN, OUTRAN: Computerized Question Generation #2, Version: January 1974 * RSTS-11-32 EDIT8, Version: January 1974 * RSTS-11-33 PAYROLL: Idaho Falls Payroll System * RSTS-11-34 Wabash College Student Information System, Version: December 1974 * RSTS-11-35 COMSYS: RSTS-11 Communications System, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-36 READID.MAC, Version: April 1974 * RSTS-11-37 SPRING THING, Version: January 1972 * RSTS-11-38 Analog Computer Simulator, Version: January 1974 * RSTS-11-39 YACHT: Yachting Championship Results, Version: February 1974 * RSTS-11-40 Management Case Studies, Version: March 1974 * RSTS-11-41 TYPIST, Version: March 1974 * RSTS-11-42 MIS: Management Information System, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-43 Elementary Instructional Programs, Volume 1, Version: January 1975 * RSTS-11-44 Fractions Drill and Practice, Version: January 1975 * RSTS-11-45 Dartmouth Statistics Program, Version: April 1974 * RSTS-11-46 North Country Union High School Administrative Programs, Version: September 1972 * RSTS-11-47 Project DELTA Educational Package, Section E Additional Mathematics Program and Section F Teacher Assistance Programs, Version: May 1974 * RSTS-11-48 Project DELTA Educational Package, Section G Business Programs and Section H Data Processing Programs, Version: May 1974 * RSTS-11-49 SADSM, Version: January 1974 * RSTS-11-50 MIGIT, Version: April 1974 * RSTS-11-51 ACCMAT: Account Maintenance File, Version: April 1974 * RSTS-11-52 Fiscal Accounting, Version: July 1974 * RSTS-11-53 Computer Dating, Version: October 1974 * RSTS-11-54 TAPFOR.MAC, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-55 XREF.BAS, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-56 The Timer Package, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-57 PACK.BAS, Version: May 1974 * RSTS-11-58 MOVERX.BAS, Version: December 1973 * RSTS-11-59 LISTAL.BAS, Version: February 1974 * RSTS-11-60 PUNCH.BAS, Version: March 1974 * RSTS-11-61 HELPER: Editing and Renumbering BASIC-PLUS Programs, Version: June 1975 * RSTS-11-62 Bentley Variety Package, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-63 NORTON: Astronomical Ephemeris Program Package, Version: August 1976 * RSTS-11-64 NMRSIM: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Simulation and Plotting Progiram, Version: August 1974 * RSTS-11-65 SPPLT: Hybrid Orbital Contour Plotting Program, Version: December 1974 * RSTS-11-66 Elementary Instructional Programs, Volume II, Version: February 1974 * RSTS-11-67 HPPLOT.BAS: Hewlett-Packard 7202A Graphic Plotter Program, Version: January 1975 * RSTS-11-68 SOLVE: Southeastern On-Line Version of Enrollinent, Version: February 1975 * RSTS-11-69 INVSIM: Inventory Simulations, Version: February 1975 * RSTS-11-70 WRIST: Wabash Research Investigation Simulation Teacher, Version: January 1976 * RSTS-11-71 Matrix Software Company Game and Demo PadaW, Version: August 1974 * RSTS-11-72 1401 Simulator (RSTS Version), Version: January 1975 * RSTS-11-74 SYSELF: System Status-Self, Version: April 1975 * RSTS-11-75 8008.BAS and 8080.BAS, Version: May 1975 * RSTS-11-76 CYCLES, Version: June 1975 * RSTS-11-78 XREF: Cross-Referencer for BASIC-PLUS Programs, Version: June 1975 * RSTS-11-79 RSTS Performance Measurement Package, Version: June 1975 * RSTS-11-80 TDL/SCRIPT, Version: June 1975 * RSTS-11-81 BATCH: Batch Programming for the PDP-11/20 with RSTS-11, Version: June 1974 * RSTS-11-82 Laramie High ECMEP Math Programs, Version: August 1975 * RSTS-11-83 PAPTAP, NIAGTAP, LISTAC: Additional Cusps for RSTS-11, Version: August 1975 * RSTS-11-84 OMSI PILOT-73, Version: April 1975 * RSTS-11-85 BRANCH: DECAL Branching Scheme for "N" Right Out of "T" Tries, Version: September 1975 * RSTS-11-86 OS/8 to RSTS Interface, Version: January 1976 * RSTS-11-87 COPY03: Backup Program (To and From all Devices Except DECtape), Version: January 1976 * RSTS-11-89 Floppy Disk Utility (RT-11 Compatible), Version: March 1976 * RSTS-11-90 DICE, Version: 1, April 1978 * RSTS-11-92 BASIC: Dartmouth BASIC to BASIC-PLUS Text Editor, Version: June 1976 * RSTS-11-93 CHSBRD, Version: 1, December 1975 * RSTS-11-94 Compendium of (DECAL) CAI Programs, Version: October 1976 * RSTS-11-97 SHELF, Version: December 1976 * RSTS-11-98 CASANOVA Package, Version: December 1976 * RSTS-11-100 Computer-Oriented-Accounting Package, Version: September 1976 * RSTS-11-101 DECUS-S.I.G. Seminar Programs and Documentation, Version: March 1977 * RSTS-11-102 RINNY2, Version: B-2a, January 1977 * RSTS-11-103 CADA Monitor, Version: August 1976 * RSTS-11-104 VBFILE: Variable Record Random Acem File Handler Routines, Version: April 1977 * RSTS-11-105 Text Editor and Corrector for RSTS/E, Version: May 1977 * RSTS-11-106 RTMAG: Utility to Read RT-11 Magtapes under RSTS/E, Version: May 1977 * RSTS-11-108 SOS-11, Version: August 1977 * RSTS-11-109 Middlebury College Utilities and Plotting Package, Version: August 1977 * RSTS-11-110 STAT-11: Statistical Package, Version: October 1977 * RSTS-11-111 RSTS with PAMILA, Version: August 1977 * RSTS-11-112 72PLOT: HP 7202A Plotter Package, Version: January 1978 * RSTS-11-113 MICRO.BAS: 8080 Based Microcomputer Simulator, Version: March 1978 * RSTS-11-114 GRAPH PACKAGE, Version: September 1977 * RSTS-11-115 HELP COMMAND, Version: March 1978 * RSTS-11-116 Xavier Library Support and Conversion Program Packages, Version: May 1978 * RSTS-11-117 FORMAT, Version: 03 - 20-Apr-78 * RSTS-11-118 LEADS: An Interadive Daft Base NIaMement System for Education, Version: 1, May 1978 * RSTS-11-119 FREQ, VIDEO, and GRADS, Version: July 1978 * RSTS-11-120 Card Reader Batch Monitor Program, Version: 1.4, December 1978 * RSTS-11-121 DISASM.BAS: MACRO Disassembler, Version: 1, April 1978 * RSTS-11-123 Wittenberg University Utility Package, Version: 6C-03, October 1978 * RSTS-11-124 Creating Printed (Hard Copy) Tests, Version: 1, April 1978 * RSTS-11-125 PREX: RSTS Disk Directory Pre-extender, Version: May 1979 * RSTS-11-126 Dynamic System Account Manager, Version: 3, June 1980 * RSTS-11-128 CURSOR Programs In Chemistry, Version: July 1979 * RSTS-11-129 BMDP Control File Writer, Version: July 1979 * RSTS-11-130 SETDEC: DECAL Lesson Wiriter, Version: 2, January 1980 * RSTS-11-131 FLASH: Version: 1, September 1979 * RSTS-11-132 Central State University Drill and Practice CAI System, Version: October 1979 * RSTS-11-133 Picture Generator and Multi-terminal Quiz, Version: April 1979 * RSTS-11-134 MAIL: Mail/Message System, Version: January 1980 * RSTS-11-135 ASCII to EBCDIC or EBCDIC to ASCII String Translation RSTS-11-135 (FNEBCASC), Version: January 1980FNEBCASC: Convert ASCII to EBCDIC and reverse * RSTS-11-136 MAIL Package, Version: V06A-02, June 1980 * RSTS-11-137 3277 Display Emulator for RSTS/E, Version: 1.0, February 1980 * RSTS-11-138 Frequency Package, Version: January 1980 * RSTS-11-139 CTS-11 Software Driver for RSTS/F, Version: 1.0, May 1980 * RSTS-11-140 The Nassau College Utility Package, Version: 1.0, August 1980 * RSTS-11-141 MAGINT: MAGnetic tape INTerchange program, Version: 02A-02, August 1980 * RSTS-11-142 ACTNAM.BAS, Version: October 1980 * RSTS-11-143 UNITAP/UNIWRI, Version: January 1981 * RSTS-11-144 COMPUTER DATING * RSTS-11-145 NDTRAN Notre Dame Simulation Program, Version: 2 * RSTS-11-146 ROLL MANAGER PROGRAM, Version: 2 * RSTS-11-147 LISP -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Sep 10 14:29:13 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Melbourne hamfest report was:Re: RCT Swap Report (Long) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000910095853.0097e410@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000910142913.3f77b42c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Bruce, Well you did a lot better than I did. I went to the Melbourne hamfest Saturday and it was a bust. There were lots of buyers there including Steve Robertson but few sellers. Even the sellers that were there had poor offerings. Almost no test equipment and NO classic computers or HP stuff. Steve and I passed up piles of old Commodore and Atari computers, a 128K Mac, a Zenith 161 portable and a Zenith Mini-sport with a 2" floppy drive. This was a BIG disappointment since Melbourne is usually one of the best hamfest in the state. It looks like most people are selling their good stuff on the net now. Steve and I did get one decent find. I bought volumes I and II and the workbook for Heathkit's Advanced MicroProcessor course for $.50 each. Later Steve found and bought another volume II and the workbook. These are the manuals that are used with the ET-100 trainer. The ET-100 is a Zenith Z-100 with an attached breadboard. I also bought a miniture version of the E6-B mechanical flight computer. (Is that on-topic for this list?) While in Melbourne, Steve and I stopped at a scrap place and bought a number of Weller soldering stations and I bought a Cromemco terminal. FWIW I went to the same place Friday and bought two large sections of space schuttle flooring. The folks there thought they were some kind of strange heatsinks! Joe At 09:58 AM 9/10/00 -0700, Bruce Lane wrote: > This year's Radio Club of Tacoma (WA) swap was both a miracle and a >disappointment. It's rare that the two go together, I know, but it did in >fact happen that way this year. I claim "appropriate posting" to the list >for this because what I brought back is over ten years old, and can most >definitely be used to troubleshoot computer systems. > > The miracle: Every so often, someone will show up with one or more pieces >of hardware or test gear that are incredibly useful, are either working >(but may be out of cal) or have only minor problems, are priced to move >rather than at "E-pay average," and where the seller has little knowledge >of just what it is they're moving. > > Such was the case yesterday morning, and the fact that I had gotten seller >space this year, and was as a result able to walk around the place before >they let the general public in, is the key reason I think I scored the >following for all of $250. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Sep 10 15:13:54 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000910151354.3eefe4a6@mailhost.intellistar.net> I checked on my unit's. They're blue with a biege band about 2 1/2" tall around the top. The name plates have a brushed aluminium finish. The CPU box is a model "ZDS" and it's also marked "1/40- 32K CPU" and "05-6013-01" and is serial number 26. The disk drive unit is marked "05-6013-05" and "1/40- 60K" and is serial number 275. I found a 32 sectored hard sectored disk in one of the drives. It's marked "PTR V7" "DO - T" "1-40" "5-12-82". Joe > >>I've got a Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system and RIO operating >>system disks. Is yours blue in color? I think I've only fired-up >>mine once or twice since I got it more than ten years ago. >> >>- John >> >> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Sep 10 14:56:46 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000908213419.00af9560@206.231.8.2> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000908091503.0249fee0@pc> <3.0.1.16.20000908074910.3c071f2c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20000907214541.024cbef0@pc> <3.0.1.16.20000907221720.348fdde6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000910145646.35cf16b6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Chris, I'm glad to hear that there are at least a few of them out there. Can you make a list of what you have? Between John, Fritz and you I should be able to get a decent set of software and manuals. BTW I found a disk in one of my drives. It's marked "PTR V7" "DO - T" "1-40" "5-12-82". Any idea what it might be? It's a 32 sectored hard sectored disk. Is that what these use? Joe At 09:41 PM 9/8/00 -0400, Chris wrote: >Greetings Joe and John, > >I've got one of those devel systems too along with s/w and manuals. Haven't >fired mine up in a _long_ time either. Used RIO of some version too. Simple >OS. > >My memory is real fuzzy on it now even though I used to occasionally use it >at work (mid-80's). I wonder if the disks are still okay (bitrot)? It's in >storage and I really should drag it out to the house before winter. Books >and s/w buried up in the attic along with a million other things. Let me >know if you cannot find all the docs and s/w. > >Regards, Chris >-- -- > >Upon the date 10:23 AM 9/8/00 -0500, John Foust said something like: >>At 07:49 AM 9/8/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >>>Yes, it's blue with brushed aluminium around the top. I think I saw the >>>letters MCZ n it but I'll check to be sure. I'd love to get a copy of the >>>disks and any manuals that you have. >> >>Mine's a model 05-1014-00. >> >>Back in 1997, I chatted with Fritz Chwolka about the one he owns. >>He has a unique name, he's easy to find in web searches. He's active >>in the German CP/M community. Perhaps you can find him. I found >>three or four various e-mail addresses in a search this morning. >> >>- John > >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 10 14:31:01 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System Message-ID: <015701c01b5d$bf2c64c0$a50f9a8d@ajp166> From: Joe >one of my drives. It's marked "PTR V7" "DO - T" "1-40" "5-12-82". Any idea >what it might be? It's a 32 sectored hard sectored disk. Is that what >these use? Yep these require hard sectored disks at 32spt. Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Sep 10 15:03:23 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: power supply for HP 110 Portable Plus ?" (Sep 9, 20:43) References: Message-ID: <10009102103.ZM2560@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 9, 20:43, Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, does anyone know of a UK source of the large heat-shrink > sleeving used on battery packs? Nobody seems to list it in the catalogues. Yes, you want Adtech Polymer Engineering in Gloucestershire. Tel. 01285 762000 http://www.adtech.co.uk email: sales@adtech.co.uk -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 10 15:25:41 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009101520.IAA05922@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Sep 10, 2000 08:20:56 AM Message-ID: <200009102025.NAA12656@shell1.aracnet.com> > The only reason I'm upgrading at all is because I want USB support. I wanted > to get 8.6 but no one sells it anymore. Know a supplier? Or can I patch > 8.1 to do this? I don't think you could buy 8.6 when it was current. I thought it involved going to 8.5 and applying the 8.6 update. I might be mistaken though. If I am you should be able to find 8.6 with a little looking. Every now and then I see people selling old copies of the OS still in shrinkwrap. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 10 15:39:43 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes In-Reply-To: <000910134750.202014b5@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Sep 10, 2000 01:47:50 PM Message-ID: <200009102039.NAA13995@shell1.aracnet.com> > What you have is one of 147 entries from the DECUS RSTS-11 library. They > are already available on-the-web through the collections at > > http://pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ > * RSTS-11-13 Games, Puzzles and Recreation--1, Version: August 1973 > * RSTS-11-76 CYCLES, Version: June 1975 Some of which including the two above are available at: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/vms/ after having been converted to VMS. In most cases I've got executables that will work on VAX/VMS V5.5 and OpenVMS V7.2/Alpha. In all cases there is the updated BASIC source so you can compile it yourself if those won't work. There is also some PDP10 stuff I've converted from the stuff on Tim's site in the same directory. Zane From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sun Sep 10 17:44:42 2000 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Zilog Z-80 Developement System In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000910145646.35cf16b6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <13YEtg-1DTeIyC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:56:46 -0500, Joe wrote: >Chris, > > I'm glad to hear that there are at least a few of them out there. Can >you make a list of what you have? Between John, Fritz and you I should be >able to get a decent set of software and manuals. BTW I found a disk in >one of my drives. It's marked "PTR V7" "DO - T" "1-40" "5-12-82". Any idea >what it might be? It's a 32 sectored hard sectored disk. Is that what >these use? I have no idea. I was at my parents at weekend and took a look onto my MDS manuals. So tomorrow I can tell you what I have. The manuals are dated from 1977 to 1979. My MDS systems are at another location but in the next month I'll bring them home. Than i'll fire them on and see if I can make systemdisks - if that works I need hard sectored disks to make copies for you and they are very seldom to find. > > Joe > >At 09:41 PM 9/8/00 -0400, Chris wrote: >>Greetings Joe and John, >> >>I've got one of those devel systems too along with s/w and manuals. Haven't >>fired mine up in a _long_ time either. Used RIO of some version too. Simple >>OS. >> >>My memory is real fuzzy on it now even though I used to occasionally use it >>at work (mid-80's). I wonder if the disks are still okay (bitrot)? It's in >>storage and I really should drag it out to the house before winter. Books >>and s/w buried up in the attic along with a million other things. Let me >>know if you cannot find all the docs and s/w. >> >>Regards, Chris >>-- -- >> >>Upon the date 10:23 AM 9/8/00 -0500, John Foust said something like: >>>At 07:49 AM 9/8/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >>>>Yes, it's blue with brushed aluminium around the top. I think I saw the >>>>letters MCZ n it but I'll check to be sure. I'd love to get a copy of the >>>>disks and any manuals that you have. >>> >>>Mine's a model 05-1014-00. >>> >>>Back in 1997, I chatted with Fritz Chwolka about the one he owns. >>>He has a unique name, he's easy to find in web searches. He's active >>>in the German CP/M community. Perhaps you can find him. I found >>>three or four various e-mail addresses in a search this morning. >>> >>>- John >> >>Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >>Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net >> Member of Antique Wireless Association >> URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ >> > Fritz Chwolka /collecting old computers just for fun\ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Sep 10 17:05:23 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <20000910172931.11439@mail.lafayette.edu> from Tom Owad at "Sep 10, 0 01:29:31 pm" Message-ID: <200009102205.PAA10160@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > You might try using vMac on the 7300. > > Or maybe install Multifinder on the SE/30 and try running Microsoft Word > in the background. Unfortunately, ZeroGravity doesn't like MultiFinder and neither does AppleShare II, which is the SE/30's main reason for existence (it is the boot server for the Apple IIgs'es in the apartment, which ASFSv3 and up can't do). vMac seems a little tricky to configure. How well does it work? One other problem is not having a ROM image, let alone a hard disk image. I'm just surprised no one has thought of this kind of thing before. There's oodles of slow-down utilities for the PeeCee ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Sep 10 18:08:16 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009100513.WAA07252@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > Uh, install a newer MacOS? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > That only works about half the time :^) Sometimes it's actually faster. > There were at least a couple releases that were faster. The PC world is not so inconsistent. EVERY version of a MICROS~1 product is slower than its predecessor. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Sep 10 18:45:38 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Free Classic Databooks Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000910163926.00e0f4c0@208.226.86.10> I've got a box full of old data books that are free for shipping. (which will be a bit since they weigh about 24lbs) Included are GE Transistor Manual (sixth edition 1964) RCA Transistor Manual 1964 SCR manual SCR Applications Power Supplies Motorola Zener/Rectifier Handbook Optoelectronics catalogs Siliconix applications HVSR designers guide LSI design catalog and a few others Either pick them up in Sunnyvale, or pay to ship them to your address. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Sep 10 18:48:03 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Link terminal update Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000910164709.00c1bbb0@208.226.86.10> I found a manual for the Link MC70 terminal. Apparently its 4014 compatible so all I need to draw on it are some routines that know how to talk to a 4014 :-) --Chuck From ss at allegro.com Sun Sep 10 19:31:59 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Epson HX-20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39BBC58F.14214.2FFC741C@localhost> Re: > Take a look at ftp.epson.com/pub/hxpxqx/ where you will find a number of that didn't work for me, but the following did: http://support.epson.com/hardware/computer/portable/hx20__/filelibrary.html (click on "Documentation") and a non-Netscape FTP to: ftp.epson.com (user: anonymous) and then goto "hxpxqx", and you'll see: -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3215 Oct 15 1995 ASCRCV.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2490 Oct 15 1995 BIGWRK.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 32049 Oct 15 1995 CARDBO.ZIP -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2962 Oct 15 1995 CMOS.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 5296 Oct 15 1995 CPMNDX.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 13813 Oct 15 1995 FILES.LST -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 7052 Oct 15 1995 FILINK.ZIP -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 7936 Oct 15 1995 HXDIAG.BAS -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 9384 Oct 15 1995 HXDOC.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 8473 Oct 15 1995 HXPRG.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1713 Oct 15 1995 HXROM.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1284 Oct 15 1995 HXTEC.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2143 Oct 15 1995 HXTERM.BAS -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3294 Oct 15 1995 HXTERM.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 7514 Oct 15 1995 HXUSES.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1608 Oct 15 1995 MONPIN.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2223 Oct 15 1995 NDXFIX.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 226666 Oct 15 1995 PIBTER.EXE -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 30242 Oct 15 1995 PX8GAM.ZIP -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 10355 Oct 15 1995 PX8UTI.ZIP -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 5893 Oct 15 1995 RBLDV2.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 5435 Oct 15 1995 RBLDVA.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 4605 Oct 15 1995 RBLDVB.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2850 Oct 15 1995 RWCPM.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3066 Oct 15 1995 TPMNAM.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1654 Oct 15 1995 V1B&IT.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1548 Oct 15 1995 V1CASE.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1451 Oct 15 1995 V1NDXR.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3001 Oct 15 1995 V1PRNT.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 5729 Oct 15 1995 V1RCOV.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 1516 Oct 15 1995 V1TIPS.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3404 Oct 15 1995 V2MRGR.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3593 Oct 15 1995 V2RCVR.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3793 Oct 15 1995 V2TIPS.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 13896 Oct 15 1995 VALGIF.DOC -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 9216 Oct 15 1995 VALGIF.HLP -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 38784 Oct 15 1995 VALGIF.SYS -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 16384 Oct 15 1995 VALGIF.VAL -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 10624 Oct 15 1995 WSX.ZIP -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2058 Oct 15 1995 ZAPL1H.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 3180 Oct 15 1995 ZAPL1S.TXT -rw-rw-r-- 1 epsonadm 2658 Oct 15 1995 ZAPLV2.TXT Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From donm at cts.com Sun Sep 10 22:18:33 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes In-Reply-To: <000910134750.202014b5@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > * Maybe I got a bargain, maybe I didn't. Help me decide. I won an auction > * for three paper tapes in excellent condition. All three are labeled with a ________O/_______ O\ > What you have is one of 147 entries from the DECUS RSTS-11 library. They > are already available on-the-web through the collections at > > http://pdp-11.trailing-edge.com/ > > just click on "RSTS-11 library entries" and go the the RSTS-11-75 entry, > specifically > > RSTS-11-75 > > 8008.BAS and 8080.BAS, Version: May 1975 > _________________________________________________________________ > > Author: R. J. Tapp and G. D. Young, University of Victoria, Victoria, > B.C., Canada > > Source Language: BASIC-PLUS, Memory Required: 8K > > Abstract: These are cross-assemblers for the 8008 and 8080 > microprocessors which use a language similar to Intel's standard > assembly language: instruction mnemonics are identical, but > pseudo-instructions and expression formats are slightly different. > Output is in the form of an assembly listing, alphabetical symbol > table and object code in standard Intel hex format. Note: See also > DECUS No. 11-113. > > Documentation on Magnetic Media. > > Media Price Codes: G26, H30, M50 > _________________________________________________________________ > > Filename Size (kbytes) > 8008.BAS 7.5 > 8008.DOC 13.5 > 8080.BAS 10.5 > > Other RSTS-11 entries available include > > * RSTS-11-1 EDITOR.BAS (and EDITIN), Vervion: 6A, July 1973 ________O/_______ O\ > 02A-02, August 1980 > * RSTS-11-142 ACTNAM.BAS, Version: October 1980 > * RSTS-11-143 UNITAP/UNIWRI, Version: January 1981 > * RSTS-11-144 COMPUTER DATING > * RSTS-11-145 NDTRAN Notre Dame Simulation Program, Version: 2 > * RSTS-11-146 ROLL MANAGER PROGRAM, Version: 2 > * RSTS-11-147 LISP > > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Tim, you are amazing! - don From nabil at SpiritOne.com Sun Sep 10 23:10:48 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So don't just keep us in suspense, which one did you end up getting? On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Aaron Nabil wrote: > On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > OK, since I now have two pieces of equipment I need to get a decent > > soldering iron to work on, I'm wondering if people could make any > > recommendations. I'm needing it for my PDP-8/m front panel, and for the DEC > > VR260 I want to revive. I'll probably pick it up from Fry's this weekend. > > . . . > > Try http://pdp-8.org/tools.html > > -- > Aaron Nabil > Aaron Nabil From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Sep 11 04:48:15 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Robotwars? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39BCC67F.6342.173532B7@localhost> > > Does anyone remember Robotwars for the Apple ][? It was written by Silas > > Warner and published by Muse. > > This was a multi-player game. Did it by any chance allow two people on > > separate computers to play against each other by any sort of link-up > > between the machines? > IIRC, it didn't. You programmed your robot, loaded it into the > arena, and ran it against your buddies robots. My friends and > I had great fun geeking around with it... A bit like this crazy british tv show :) (Or MARS, in a more serious context) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From r.stek at snet.net Mon Sep 11 05:41:56 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes Message-ID: Thanks, Tim and Zane! I have never owned or seriously worked on a DEC machine, so now I'll need to find one which can run RSTS! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From jate at uwasa.fi Mon Sep 11 07:11:48 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: HP 9000/500? In-Reply-To: ; from xds_sigma7@hotmail.com on Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 10:23:08AM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20000911151148.A1263@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Sun, Sep 10, 2000 at 10:23:08AM -0600, Will Jennings wrote: > Hmmm... I think there is a similar machine in a junkyard near me... worth > getting? There is also a Ramtek system, a VAX 11/785, some big honkin' Tek > 41xx series terms, etc. I want that junkyard:) Anyway, if you can find the disks and/or tapes/drives to the 500, run, don't walk to get it. I just upgraded my 9000/550 to 3 CPUs and 8MB memory (of which one board is defective but the machine gracefully maps it out). I'd like to add another IOP too but.. The boards are impressive and I promise to take some pics some day and post a pointer. btw, what on earth is HP 9000/600 ? I've only seen a few references to them but nothing solid. Does anyone have one ? -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Sep 11 12:33:32 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:25 2005 Subject: VCF Requests (OT) Message-ID: John Foust Message-ID: <200009111824.LAA01757@civic.hal.com> Owen Robertson wrote: > I just picked up an Olivetti L1 Computer at Goodwill. The CPU, keyboard, and > disk drives are in one unit, kind of like an Apple III. The monitor is > seperate, and gets its power from the main unit. All the main keys have BASIC > statement on them (PRINT, OPEN, INPUT, etc...). When it boots up, it says: > > Bootstrap Loader Version 1.0 > Insert Disk And Press Enter. > > Does anyone know anything about it? I couldn't find any information on the > internet. Does it have BASIC in ROM? If so, how do I get to it? If anyone has > any disks or manuals, that would be great! > > Thanks, > Owen Hi Owen I have a working M20. I can get you a disk that boots. I don't recall if the BASIC is in disk or ROM but I have that as well as a program called OliWrite ( word processor ). I would be vary interested in anyone that has access to the assembler for this machine. Are you intending to make it to VCF at the end of the month. If so, I can get stuff to you then. Otherwise, email me and I'll see what we can do. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Sep 11 15:33:00 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Nabil" at Sep 10, 2000 09:10:48 PM Message-ID: <200009112033.NAA01458@shell1.aracnet.com> Actually I'm getting two different stations oddly enough. I picked up a brand new Weller WES50 which seems very nice, and I got a killer deal on a used Metcal SP200, and am currently waiting on it to arrive. I've not had time to actually do anything with the Weller other than plug it in and play for a couple minutes on a scrap board (worse I discovered I didn't have any of my Soldering stuff in the new apartement), but it seems very nice. Zane > So don't just keep us in suspense, which one did you end up getting? > > Aaron Nabil From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Sep 11 15:34:43 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Some Interesting Paper Tapes In-Reply-To: from "Robert Stek" at Sep 11, 2000 06:41:56 AM Message-ID: <200009112034.NAA01685@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Thanks, Tim and Zane! I have never owned or seriously worked on a DEC > machine, so now I'll need to find one which can run RSTS! > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > Well, I pointed the stuff I've got online out because it's easier to find something that runs VMS than it is to find a RSTS system. Zane From jp at spektr.eu.org Mon Sep 11 15:44:15 2000 From: jp at spektr.eu.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Pehrson?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. In-Reply-To: <200008171422.KAA24615@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, NetBSD Bob wrote: > For the sake of discussion, and preservation.... anyone at Compaq have any > spare hardware manuals that they could make available or add to what already > exists, online here and there? Hardware manuals are always what I never > seem to be able to find. Collectively, we should gather the info up, > before it becomes vaporware unobtainium. > > Bob Plenty of the hardware documents are available (internally at Compaq) as scanned PDF files. And those documents will at least not end up in /dev/null. -- J?rgen Pehrson jorgen.pehrson@compaq.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- "i must say the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix community. a negative comment on unix would warrent death threats. with linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies." -- Ken Thompson. 1999 From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Sep 11 16:38:15 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: NeWS In-Reply-To: <200009082231.PAA09597@shell1.aracnet.com> (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: <200009082231.PAA09597@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20000911213815.10479.qmail@brouhaha.com> Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > I'd like to play with the NeWS system, since I've never seen it and > am intrigued... Zane Healy wrote: > Wasn't this an OS from Sony? However, saying that I seem to recall seeing > something to do with it and Printers in some old Sun stuff. Two completely different and unrelated things, both called NEWS. (Not sure about capitalization.) Network Extensible Window System by Sun. NEWS workstations by Sony. From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Sep 11 16:40:19 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c01c38$e27a0e10$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Somebody rang a big Ol' bell for me the other day. They alluded that VAXen ship with hardware ID's, something that I had forgotten years ago (I actually wrote ID encoders for some G.E. software back in 1985) This led to some panic. If the only source of software is new or near new copies, then some VAX architectures with limited disk or memory would not be able to run it -- and without being able to re-HWID old SW copies, they could not be made to run on other configs, even exact matches. Anybody know if: All VAXes have HWIDs? Even micros? Is it possible for some Third trusted party to permit back revision VMS copies to run on different copies of HW with other CPUID's? I checked http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/faq.html but couldn't find much of anything there. Thanks in Advance John A. From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Sep 11 23:33:44 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Metcal Soldering stations Message-ID: <200009120435.e8C4ZqS24060@grover.winsite.com> As Zane mentioned, he's getting a used Metcal SP-200 station to play with. I also know this because he got it from me..... For those of you who don't know, these are professional-grade induction-heating systems with extremely light handpieces and dozens of interchangeable tips. Heat is practically instantaneous, and they are also static-free. They also run about $400 new. The surplus shop where I work during a goodly portion of my free time has a limited number of power supplies and handpieces available, unfortunately, no tips or stands. We got them from an electronics plant that shut down. Tips range from about $15 up to $30 new, I think, depending on the tip. If you're interested in one, email me off-list and I'll let you know what we have. These are great irons -- I have two (one at home and one at work) and absolutely love both of 'em. I hung up my Weller and my Ungar when I got the Metcal. Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Sep 12 01:41:33 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: General Automation GA 3345 References: <200009120435.e8C4ZqS24060@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <000b01c01c84$80c30860$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Friend of mine in Brisbane has been offered the following system. I've never heard of it, (or the company). Web searching now, but in the interim, anyone able to tell me anything useful about it?? > The computer we want to give away is an old main frame from: > General Automation Inc. ie a GA 3345 > Dimensions: Height 1.5 meters > Depth 80 cm > Width 70 cm > Two of them. > > Dimensions: Height 1.2 meters > Depth 80 cm > Width 70 cm > One of. > Electronic parts, motors, dog house, aviary are some of the uses that > spring to mind. 3 cabinets, believed to consist of system unit and drives (not sure what/how many/disk/tape etc) Apparently a complete system.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Sep 12 02:16:02 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <20000910172931.11439@mail.lafayette.edu> References: <200009100439.VAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <200009100439.VAA17008@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Its driving me nuts, but I really do remember that there was a REAL slowdown utility that ran I think on the Mac II era machines and wasted time so that your machine ran like either a SE or Plus, and it was both for fun and for testing code. From antonio.carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Sep 12 01:47:05 2000 From: antonio.carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. Message-ID: <29752A74B6C5D211A4920090273CA3DC26E64B@new-exc1.ctron.com> jorgen.pehrson@compaq.com wrote: >Plenty of the hardware documents are available (internally at Compaq) as >scanned PDF files. And those documents will at least not end up in >/dev/null. Having current and semi-current manuals kicking around isn't really the issue though. I've seen more PDP-8, PDP-10 and PDP-11 era manuals outside of COMPAQ/Digital/DEC than I ever saw inside. For VAX, PC and Alpha material the situation was much better inside. I wonder how many VAX hardware manuals will still be available internally to COMPAQ in maybe ten (or five) years time? Antonio From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Sep 12 02:11:12 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. In-Reply-To: <29752A74B6C5D211A4920090273CA3DC26E64B@new-exc1.ctron.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000912001017.02492d60@208.226.86.10> Well I know that the only KA6xx CPU technical manual you can order from DEC literature is the KA640 manual. (Why this one? I don't know, even the KA670 manual is out of print!) --Chuck At 07:47 AM 9/12/00 +0100, you wrote: >jorgen.pehrson@compaq.com wrote: > > >Plenty of the hardware documents are available (internally at Compaq) as > >scanned PDF files. And those documents will at least not end up in > >/dev/null. > >Having current and semi-current manuals kicking around >isn't really the issue though. I've seen more PDP-8, >PDP-10 and PDP-11 era manuals outside of COMPAQ/Digital/DEC >than I ever saw inside. > >For VAX, PC and Alpha material the situation was >much better inside. > >I wonder how many VAX hardware manuals will still be available >internally to COMPAQ in maybe ten (or five) years time? > >Antonio From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 06:52:59 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: <005f01c01cb0$95225190$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> From: John Allain >They alluded that VAXen ship with hardware ID's, >something that I had forgotten years ago Yes they do. >software is new or near new copies, then some VAX >architectures with limited disk or memory would >not be able to run it -- and without being able >to re-HWID old SW copies, they could not be made >to run on other configs, even exact matches. re-hwid??? whats that. All I do is use a machine that I can do a VMSbuild on to my spec, no biggie. The biggest issue with recent copies of VMS is device support for acient devices. The key here is SUPPORTED as een unsuppported acient device drivers are often included. >Anybody know if: > All VAXes have HWIDs? Even micros? Yep, and yep. > Is it possible for some Third trusted party > to permit back revision VMS copies to run > on different copies of HW with other CPUID's? Why? old copies of VMS are still around and they are not locked nor are new ones. You only need a license pak. DECs use of HWID was to make sure there was hw/sw support for things like what ()-float types the machine supported and what instructions needed trap emulation. Newer versions lise all older machines and the only case where thish could be a problem is if you were trying to run V3.6 on a VAX10000 not the reverse such as 7.2 on a 11/750. Allison From nabil at SpiritOne.com Tue Sep 12 06:59:59 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Very complete Tek 547 scope in Portland, OR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Save it from Ebay! Very, very nice Tek 547 scope, in fact you get 2, both are equally nice, I just had to pick one to use and one to keep for spare parts. Had it for about 4 years, used it routinely as a back-up scope, in fact I just used it last week. Has nice scope-mobile cart, many plugs-ins (including a couple of the fet-front ended 1A4's), calibration plug-ins, test extenders, manuals, even a can of Tek touch up paint. The Tek Scope Museum at http://margo.student.utwente.nl/~wel/tek.htm describes the 547 as... . . . Probably the greatest of the classic Tek scopes, the 547 has dual timebases with delayed sweep and a unique "alternate" function. The 547 has a very stable trigger circuit and is useful well beyond its rated 50 MHz bandwidth. This is the model to look for if you're buying a 500-series instrument. $100 gets the whole pile, pick-up only. Reply off-list if you want it. -- Aaron Nabil From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Sep 12 07:27:09 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Spliff Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB115@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > With the help of Doug Quebbeman and Steve Robertson and Kevin Davidson of > QS Technologies, we repatriated a very nice Pr1me 9650 system with > Centronics printer from Greenville, SC back to New England. We > apprecaite all the assitance, and are looking forward to the day when we > pull it out of its temporary storage and get it running again. Cool! But what was the original post under this subject? Something about Jamaican classic computing? 8D From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Sep 12 07:31:37 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Spliff Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB116@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > You wrote.... > > With the help of Doug Quebbeman and Steve Robertson and Kevin Davidson of > > QS Technologies, we repatriated a very nice Pr1me 9650 system with > > Centronics printer from Greenville, SC back to New England. We > > apprecaite all the assitance, and are looking forward to the day when we > > pull it out of its temporary storage and get it running again. > > I spent a fairly large part of my career on Pr1me's. I still have a complete > set of docs for them and remember a fair amount. If you need any assistance > getting it up and running, drop me a line. Actually, I still maintain > contact with an ex field engineer from Pr1me, which may help you out. My initial contact with CVSI regarding a special licensing procedure for preservationist has seemingly not been taken seriously by the licensing department. At this point, they continue to view licensing of Primos et. al. as a revenue stream. This is most strange since it has been determined that CVSI does not own any intellectual property rights for anything Pr1me related. Those rights remained with Computervision, and are now property of Parametric Technologies Corporation (PTC), who is probably unaware of what they own. So preserving Pr1mes at this point in time remains a black hat activity. :-( -dq From kla at helios.augustana.edu Tue Sep 12 08:18:58 2000 From: kla at helios.augustana.edu (Kevin L. Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Thank You (Re: HP 82059D 110v to 6v AC power adapter ?) Message-ID: Thanks to all for giving the information on the needed power supply and batteries for the HP 110 Portable Plus (it is indeed the Plus). In particular, thank you for correcting the power output of the 82059D as being 8v AC under load. (My source for it being 6 V was from Mike Simms FAQ on the HP1xx series of personal computers -- he has it in there as 6 volts -- so someone may want to have that changed.) Cheers, Kevin Anderson Bismarck ND USA home: K9IUA@juno.com (alternate kla@helios.augustana.edu -- I would subscribe from home, which is much more convenient, but unfortunately the digests currently being sent out are not limited to under 60 Kb, which is a requirement still for the e-mail-only Juno service I normally subscribe to.) From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Tue Sep 12 08:34:14 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: <005f01c01cb0$95225190$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000101c01cbe$256c6a80$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> The HWID I speak of is a Unique ID per individual CPU. >> Is it possible for some Third trusted party >> to permit back revision VMS copies to run >> on different copies of HW with other CPUID's? >Why? old copies of VMS are still around and they are not >locked nor are new ones. You only need a license pak. Think relicence. So, Any old copy of VMS can be relicenced for a matching or nearly matching architecture machine? Tell me, is that through Montagar? Not locked sounds reassuring. John A. P.S. Can users fo VMSbuilds? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Sep 12 09:15:26 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Sep 11, 0 11:16:02 pm" Message-ID: <200009121415.HAA16922@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Its driving me nuts, but I really do remember that there was a REAL > slowdown utility that ran I think on the Mac II era machines and wasted > time so that your machine ran like either a SE or Plus, and it was both for > fun and for testing code. Yeah, I thought there was too. Any ideas at all? I was able to find ZeroGravity in my gopher search database, so I can definitely find software from that era. I just need a part of the name ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- To err is human -- to forgive is not company policy. ----------------------- From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 12 09:37:37 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: Can I interpret this to mean that 7.2 will run on an 11/750? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Sep 12 09:56:59 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31E2@MAIL10> Hello, all: Just a quick update on my progress with enhancing the Altair Emulator. I also have an activity log on my Web site which all can view. Most of what will go on over the next few weeks is code testing as a complete recompiled "altair.exe". A few notes: - The emulated paper tape punch code works on a standalone basis and has been integrated into the overall emulator. This is the code I need to bang on. - I wrote a bus I/O emulation Windows DLL to handle actual I/O through the PeeCee's parallel port. I still have to build a little test jig to connect to the port (an inverter, a latch, and a bus transceiver). This gives the emulator 8-bits of external address space and 8-bits of I/O with *ALE (latch control) and *R/*W signals. The way this is setup, the parallel port is still shared with other Win32 processes. If this doesn't work for the emulator, I'll have to write a dynamic virtual device driver to gain exclusive access to the port so long as the Altair is "on." - In a few weeks, I'm going to tinker with console emulation either through capturing a physical communications port that has no underlying hardware (like COM5:) so that a Windows terminal program can "connect" to the Altair Emulator. Alternately, I may try just building a virtual-VDT into the emulator. - Other enhancements will hopefully include a virtual floppy drive and the ability to "install" ROM. One I have the base code stable (it now compiles/links with no errors), I plan to make the binary available for testing and the source available for review. Some of the punch code could benefit from optimization, no doubt. I also have some questions of actual users of the Altair. I wanted to use a copy of Palo Alto Tiny BASIC on the emulator (because that's the BASIC that I have), but TB relies on CP/M for console I/O. Regarding the original Altair BASIC, did the BASIC code provide its own I/O services or did it use CP/M also? What port locations were generally used to service serial ports used for console I/O? Does anyone have a working set of CP/M binaries that I can load into the emulator? Again, any help is greatly appreciated. Rich http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Sep 12 10:45:06 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31E2@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Cini, Richard wrote: > ... I also have some questions of actual users of the Altair. I wanted > to use a copy of Palo Alto Tiny BASIC on the emulator (because that's the > BASIC that I have), but TB relies on CP/M for console I/O. Regarding the > original Altair BASIC, did the BASIC code provide its own I/O services or > did it use CP/M also? The paper-tape based versions of Altair BASIC polled the 'sense switches' to determine the type of I/O to be used, and by inferrence the port numbers. It contained its own I/O routines. > What port locations were generally used to service > serial ports used for console I/O? The closest thing to a 'standard' selection (also used in the disk based versions of BASIC) was for the 2-SIO board which was located at ports 20 and 21 (octal). > Does anyone have a working set of CP/M > binaries that I can load into the emulator? For what disk sub-system? (Mits, Tarbell, etc...???) -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 11:02:09 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: <00b201c01cd4$d627c930$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> From: John Allain >The HWID I speak of is a Unique ID per individual CPU. True. And it identifies the basic hardware and CPU. >Think relicence. Keep in mind the basic "kits" carry no license or other machine locked stuff. The license is applied during or after the install. Even then I've built and installed systems on my MVII and then carried the media to the MV2000 as both bootable and complete (even licensed if that is within the written license terms). That was how we cloned VMS sustems at DEC as it was faster than using TK50 tapes. I've put the VMS 7.2kit (cdrom) on everythingt from MVII and VS2000 through 3100m76 and would expect it to load and run on most any other VAX as well. The biggest problem of installing on older hardware is the minimum system (ram and disk) has grown during the years and early version coulld fit on 30mb disk and 1mb ram that has grown to over 150mb disk and 4mb ram. Though it is possible to shoehorn the latest version is to less than the specified disk and ram it is a exercise fort the experienced and will produce a system of limited utility. >So, Any old copy of VMS can be relicenced for a >matching or nearly matching architecture machine? Well since all VAX are by definition matching hardware there is little issue. However there are exceptions like the RTVAX which is not totally cpu compatable VAX and differs in the translate tables, it never ran VMS. >Tell me, is that through Montagar? The VMS7.2 Hobbiest version is available there. Note HOBBIEST version does not mean stripped or limited. It means it's packaged with many hobbiest desireable packages besides VMS itself. >P.S. Can users fo VMSbuilds? VMSbuild is a standard utility and is used often to configure custom installs once you have a configureation you want to standardize on. Anotehr useful VMS utility for small systems is VMStailor which allows trimming off or adding in libraries, fonts and other peices to tailor a system. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 11:04:48 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: <00b301c01cd4$d6e525c0$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> I can think of reasons why not. namely enough ram and enough disk as the minima is 4mb ram and 300mb disk though you can get by with less. Most 750s have enough of both. With 8mbram it runs fair with 12 it will run good. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Will Jennings To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 11:07 AM Subject: Re: VAX panic - buried models? >Can I interpret this to mean that 7.2 will run on an 11/750? >________________________________________________________________________ _ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 11:20:27 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <00c001c01cd6$f556a810$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> From: James Willing To: Cini, Richard >The paper-tape based versions of Altair BASIC polled the 'sense switches' >to determine the type of I/O to be used, and by inferrence the port >numbers. It contained its own I/O routines. Casette versions polled the sense switches (port FFh) as well. > >> What port locations were generally used to service >> serial ports used for console I/O? > >The closest thing to a 'standard' selection (also used in the disk based >versions of BASIC) was for the 2-SIO board which was located at ports 20 >and 21 (octal). Or the MITS SIOA and SIOB at 0/1 with one of two possible status bit combos. THe SIO had a early rev that move the sense bits around. >> Does anyone have a working set of CP/M >> binaries that I can load into the emulator? > >For what disk sub-system? (Mits, Tarbell, etc...???) Do you plan to emulate the BIOS IO to the ports and disk system? Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 12 11:29:54 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: <00b301c01cd4$d6e525c0$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Sep 12, 2000 12:04:48 PM Message-ID: <200009121629.JAA28145@shell1.aracnet.com> It *might* run, however, V6.2 was the last version of VMS to support an 11/750. Just like V7.2 will be the last version to support the MV2 family. >From the SPD: VMS V5.1 was the final version to support the VAX-11/725. OpenVMS VAX Version 6.2 was the final version to support the fol- lowing: VAX-11/730 VAX-11/750 VAX-11/751 VAX-11/780 VAX-11/782 VAX-11/785 VAXft 110 VAXft 310 VAXft 410 VAXft 610 VAXft 810 MicroVAX I VAXstation I OpenVMS VAX Version 7.2 is the final version to support the fol- lowing: MicroVAX II VAXstation II/GPX, VAXstation II/QVSS VAXstation 2000, VAXstation 2000/GPX, VAXstation 2000/MFB Zane > I can think of reasons why not. namely enough ram and > enough disk as the minima is 4mb ram and 300mb disk > though you can get by with less. Most 750s have enough > of both. With 8mbram it runs fair with 12 it will run good. > > Allison > > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Jennings > > >Can I interpret this to mean that 7.2 will run on an 11/750? From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 12 11:34:41 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31E2@MAIL10> Message-ID: <200009121634.JAA07008@civic.hal.com> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > > I also have some questions of actual users of the Altair. I wanted > to use a copy of Palo Alto Tiny BASIC on the emulator (because that's the > BASIC that I have), but TB relies on CP/M for console I/O. Regarding the > original Altair BASIC, did the BASIC code provide its own I/O services or > did it use CP/M also? What port locations were generally used to service > serial ports used for console I/O? Does anyone have a working set of CP/M > binaries that I can load into the emulator? Hi There was no standard port used for serial I/O. and even if there was, the device could have been a AY-3-1015, a 8251 or a 8250. All of these would have different handshake and setup information. I don't know how you'd be able to have anything that you'd call standard. Dwight From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Sep 12 12:01:40 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31E7@MAIL10> >>Dwight wrote >There was no standard port used for serial I/O. and even if >there was, the device could have been a AY-3-1015, a 8251 or >a 8250. All of these would have different handshake and >setup information. I don't know how you'd be able to have >anything that you'd call standard. >Dwight I guess that my question was partially answered by Jim. Using Altair BASIC, BASIC polled the switches (at port FF) in order to determine which ports to use for various I/O. Disk BASIC was the choice (running over CP/M), the BIOS would have to be recompiled with the proper port locations for the hardware one was using. What I was kind of getting at was as follows. If I wanted to provide emulated console I/O, what port would I virtualize so that any software I loaded would run? I guess that my PeeCee-centricity was showing a bit in that in the PeeCee certain hardware ports were always at the same location. So, the conclusion is that if I want to emulate a single console port, I have to select which serial board to emulate (the 2-SIO for example) and virtualize ports 20Q and 21Q. It also sounds like that I need to trap input port 0xff as the "sense switch" port. This may be done in the emulator already; I have to check. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey [mailto:elvey@hal.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 12:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions "Cini, Richard" wrote: > > I also have some questions of actual users of the Altair. I wanted > to use a copy of Palo Alto Tiny BASIC on the emulator (because that's the > BASIC that I have), but TB relies on CP/M for console I/O. Regarding the > original Altair BASIC, did the BASIC code provide its own I/O services or > did it use CP/M also? What port locations were generally used to service > serial ports used for console I/O? Does anyone have a working set of CP/M > binaries that I can load into the emulator? Hi There was no standard port used for serial I/O. and even if there was, the device could have been a AY-3-1015, a 8251 or a 8250. All of these would have different handshake and setup information. I don't know how you'd be able to have anything that you'd call standard. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 12 12:11:15 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: <00b201c01cd4$d627c930$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Sep 12, 2000 12:02:09 PM Message-ID: <200009121711.KAA01759@shell1.aracnet.com> Allison wrote: > From: John Allain > >The HWID I speak of is a Unique ID per individual CPU. > > True. And it identifies the basic hardware and CPU. > > >Think relicence. > > Keep in mind the basic "kits" carry no license or other > machine locked stuff. The license is applied during or > after the install. Even then I've built and installed systems > on my MVII and then carried the media to the MV2000 > as both bootable and complete (even licensed if that > is within the written license terms). That was how we > cloned VMS sustems at DEC as it was faster than > using TK50 tapes. I think the real question that was asked might be the following. For example I might have an old MicroVAX II running some ancient, but mission critical app. Now suppose the company that wrote this app is no longer in business, and there is quite literally no source for thier software. It wasn't resold it just vanished. Now further suppose that they had issued a license PAK based on the hardware ID of that MV2 you've been running the app on. What happens if that MV2 CPU board dies? On a Sparc (which was brought up in I believe the original question), it's possible to take a new system and change its hardware ID to match that of the original system. Is there any way to do this on a VAX, or are you does your business now go under because you can no longer run this app. Another example would be what if I want to move this app from a MV2 to say a VAXstation 4000/VLC as I've got space problems and I want it to run faster. Of course this example is of questionable legality since you're licensed to run this app on a MV2. However, the first example should be perfectly legal and something you'd want to be able to do. Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Sep 12 09:48:51 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Thank You (Re: HP 82059D 110v to 6v AC power adapter ?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000912094851.3abf5d60@mailhost.intellistar.net> Kevin, At 08:18 AM 9/12/00 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks to all for giving the information on the needed power >supply and batteries for the HP 110 Portable Plus (it is >indeed the Plus). In particular, thank you for correcting >the power output of the 82059D as being 8v AC under load. >(My source for it being 6 V was from Mike Simms FAQ on the >HP1xx series of personal computers -- he has it in there >as 6 volts -- so someone may want to have that changed.) I wrote to him years ago and told him that is was wrong. I guess he's just been too busy to change it. Joe > >Cheers, >Kevin Anderson >Bismarck ND USA >home: K9IUA@juno.com >(alternate kla@helios.augustana.edu -- I would subscribe from >home, which is much more convenient, but unfortunately the digests >currently being sent out are not limited to under 60 Kb, which >is a requirement still for the e-mail-only Juno service I >normally subscribe to.) > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 12 12:17:32 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Very complete Tek 547 scope in Portland, OR In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Nabil" at Sep 12, 0 04:59:59 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1021 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000912/157e86db/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 12 11:42:36 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: General Automation GA 3345 In-Reply-To: <000b01c01c84$80c30860$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Friend of mine in Brisbane has been offered the following system. > I've never heard of it, (or the company). Web searching now, but in the > interim, > anyone able to tell me anything useful about it?? > > > The computer we want to give away is an old main frame from: > > General Automation Inc. ie a GA 3345 > > Dimensions: Height 1.5 meters > > Depth 80 cm > > Width 70 cm > > Two of them. I've only seen pictures in books. I believe this is a mini circa the early-70s. A neat machine and more than well worth preserving. Grab it! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 12 12:57:55 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31E7@MAIL10> Message-ID: <200009121757.KAA07062@civic.hal.com> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > > So, the conclusion is that if I want to emulate a single console port, I > have to select which serial board to emulate (the 2-SIO for example) and > virtualize ports 20Q and 21Q. Hi One of the other problems was that even which bits were use to handshake the transmit and receive could change depending on how one wired the board, so just knowing the port is still no enough. Any commercial software that didn't go through the BIOS was asking for troubles since there was no way to determine how the console was done. On some systems it went through a video board and not serial, at all. Dwight From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 13:17:07 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <00e201c01cea$c4966710$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> From: Dwight Elvey > There was no standard port used for serial I/O. and even if >there was, the device could have been a AY-3-1015, a 8251 or >a 8250. All of these would have different handshake and >setup information. I don't know how you'd be able to have >anything that you'd call standard. Wrong. The standard devices were usually AY-3-1015/COM2502 based and tended to use the MITS status bits and IO addresses. Mits never used the 8251, and the 8250 was later to the scene. MITS set a standard in as much as there were very few then by sticking to the 2sio standard or the SIOB standard for serial ports with the SIOB being a uart like ay-3-1015 and the 2sio using 6850s. Expereince says, the common usart like the 1015/com2502 was most widely use with the 8251(9551/2651) the 6850 running follow on. The only S100 board I've seen the 8250 on was the CCS. The 8250 was not a widely used part in the late 70s on S100. I'd be quick to point out that the mits era was 1975-1977ish with other players already emerging as new leaders (NS* horizon and friends) by late 1977 in the S100 space. From 77-80 that would again undergo major changes going from the MITS/IMASI front pannel style machines to the Northstar*, CCS, Compupro turnkey style front pannel less and disk based systems. It was also simple enough at the time to fix IO in most code as it was trivial in construction and easy to find in binaries. allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 13:51:10 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: <00e401c01cea$c7600e60$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> >I think the real question that was asked might be the following. For >example I might have an old MicroVAX II running some ancient, but mission >critical app. Now suppose the company that wrote this app is no longer in >business, and there is quite literally no source for thier software. It >wasn't resold it just vanished. Now further suppose that they had issued a >license PAK based on the hardware ID of that MV2 you've been running the app >on. > >What happens if that MV2 CPU board dies? You put in another MVII board (or even a MVII and matching ram) and keep trucking. Anyone whos wored with vaxen would know this. The system HWID is not a serial number that I'm aware of but a model/product ID so that VMS (or Ultrix) "knows" a bit about the processor (or chipset) and it's busses. >Another example would be what if I want to move this app from a MV2 to say a >VAXstation 4000/VLC as I've got space problems and I want it to run faster. >Of course this example is of questionable legality since you're licensed to >run this app on a MV2. However, the first example should be perfectly legal >and something you'd want to be able to do. Ignoring the license issues if the media for both were say a scsi disk it would run on any scsi equipped vax. My MVII has CMD SCSI, I build a 5.4 copy and backup/image it to a second drive which is removed and placed in a MV3100... runs fine. Same for V7.2. VMS if memory serves is not licensed to the specific CPU but to the total users and per CPU used. So if you have a MVII and upgrade it to a MVIII the license is still valid and all. Now if you take the old MVII boards and build another system you will be technically required to obtain another license. Most VMS based layered apps were the same way. This was a pet peve of customers as the MVIIs were cheap and the bigger machines werent but the license was not based on if it were a MVII or VAX9000 but by the number of users it could serve and if it was a cluster member or cluster host. At the time (likely still) it was a $3000 license and for some users that was chicken feed and others that was the whole farm. At times(through the '80s) DEC didn't realize how valuable their software was and often acted like selling hardware was all of it and software was one of those annoying things you did to sell hardware. By the '90s hardware and software were often bundled and used to drive sales of each other. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 13:25:18 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: <00e301c01cea$c536ecd0$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> From: healyzh@aracnet.com >It *might* run, however, V6.2 was the last version of VMS to support an >11/750. Just like V7.2 will be the last version to support the MV2 family. First a word from... When DEC says Support they mean assitance not it will not work. Support is a service they provided and if it's supported you could under your support contract call and expect help. If it was not supported it will likely run but don't call DEC support if it doesn't. So that means prior to MV2 is not "supported" but the drivers are likely there and work. I'd expect a 750 with RA81 and 8mb ram would run V7.2 just fine. But if you ask around older 6.2 and V5.5 kits arent that hard to find. Their owners will likely let you borrow them as it's up to you to get your own license pak which is not tied to the media. I have it on good word that V7.3 does still run on MVIIs. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 13:58:19 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <00f301c01cec$16ba6db0$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> From: Dwight Elvey >Hi > One of the other problems was that even which bits were use >to handshake the transmit and receive could change depending >on how one wired the board, so just knowing the port is still >no enough. Any commercial software that didn't go through >the BIOS was asking for troubles since there was no way >to determine how the console was done. On some systems it >went through a video board and not serial, at all. >Dwight Therein lies the problem, as back then the average MITS or IMSAI did not have any rom and no concept of a BIOS, it would be CP/M that originated that concept for small systems and called it that. Even then the CPM bios only hid the underlying IO with standard interface and the IO could litterally be anything on the map (often was). If anything the idea of canned IO was something unique to systems like the SOL and a few others and rare in the s100 world. Allison From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Sep 12 14:29:56 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: General Automation GA 3345 Message-ID: <63.af81d55.26efde34@aol.com> I am not familiar with this model. Many GAs used the PICK operating system. I had a GA 5000 at one time and it was a Multibus machine with a 68000 CPU, 32 user ports, 150 Meg 14" Priam HD, 1/4" tape, 1/2" Cipher tape, all in a 5' high case. Top of the line in it's day. I may have some of the PICK manuals around if anyone is running one of these. I recommend trying to save it. Paxton Portland, OR, USA From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Sep 12 14:47:42 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Vax CPU ID change - Possible? Sparc Model change? In-Reply-To: <200009121711.KAA01759@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Sep 12, 2000 10:11:15 am" Message-ID: <200009121947.e8CJlgX07784@bg-tc-ppp539.monmouth.com> Zane writes: > > What happens if that MV2 CPU board dies? You stick another MV2 CPU in. On early Vax hardware the cpu ID is either backplane wirewraps, a DIP switch, or just the same for all CPU's of the same model. (Pro350's used a ROM on the motherboard -- so I guess there may be Vaxes done that way...) DEC did dip switch CPUid's back to the PDP11's. > > On a Sparc (which was brought up in I believe the original question), it's > possible to take a new system and change its hardware ID to match that of > the original system. Is there any way to do this on a VAX, or are you does > your business now go under because you can no longer run this app. Yup. Depending on model or CPU type. The 11/780's were all wire wrap. As were the 785's. The 750's were dip switch. > Another example would be what if I want to move this app from a MV2 to say a > VAXstation 4000/VLC as I've got space problems and I want it to run faster. > Of course this example is of questionable legality since you're licensed to > run this app on a MV2. However, the first example should be perfectly legal > and something you'd want to be able to do. You don't want to try to change an 11/780 into a 750 since the busses and instructions may differ. For example, giving a Sparc4c (Sparc1/1+/2 or similar Sparc -- like the SparcUp upgrade doubleclocked 4c's) a Sparc10 (Sparc4m) ID may render them useless because of bus and architecture differences. The Vaxes are similar, in that you can't switch between families of Vax. Making a VaxStation 3100 into Microvax2000 may or may not work correctly. I wish I could take my Sparc4c's and run Solaris8 on 'em. Sun took out Support and they supposedly won't even boot it. Wonder if I lie about the system ID and change the NVRAM, hmm... > > Zane > > Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From rivie at teraglobal.com Tue Sep 12 14:58:27 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: <000001c01c38$e27a0e10$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <000001c01c38$e27a0e10$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: >Anybody know if: > All VAXes have HWIDs? Even micros? Big VAXen do have serial numbers readable from a privileged register, but MicroVAXen do not. On the /780s this was done with wirewrap; I'm aware of one site that re-wrapped all their /780s to report the same serial number. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From elvey at hal.com Tue Sep 12 15:11:21 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions In-Reply-To: <00e201c01cea$c4966710$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200009122011.NAA07172@civic.hal.com> "ajp166" wrote: > From: Dwight Elvey > > > > There was no standard port used for serial I/O. and even if > >there was, the device could have been a AY-3-1015, a 8251 or > >a 8250. All of these would have different handshake and > >setup information. I don't know how you'd be able to have > >anything that you'd call standard. > > > Wrong. The standard devices were usually AY-3-1015/COM2502 > based and tended to use the MITS status bits and IO addresses. > Mits never used the 8251, and the 8250 was later to the scene. Hi I agree, I was only including it to indicate that someone might have used such a board, not indicating that this was what originally came in an Altair. As you stated, it was relatively easy to patch other device and many upgraded their serial boards over time to newer devices. Dwight From sean at techcare.com Tue Sep 12 15:58:47 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? Message-ID: <011a01c01cfc$3f201f60$0c00000a@techcare.com> Just wondering if anyone knows if this could be a possible problem with this type of machine. I have two DECstation 5000/200 systems. When I got them, one powered on but did not do anything (no output on serial console on port 3), while one would work fine (console output on port 3, seemed to be functional, etc). I did not have any external SCSI storage for them at the time, so I decided to store them until I could make use of them. About a week ago, I finally got a SCSI drive enclosure to mount a disk in, so I decided to try getting one of the systems up and running with NetBSD/pmax. To my surprise, however, now both of them do nothing on power-on! I had not touched them since I had power-on tested them a few months previous, so I was at a loss as to knowing what had happened. The only thing that I found that I even remotely suspect could be at fault is what looked like one of those Dallas battery-backed clock/NVRAM chips. I was wondering if perhaps the battery had died and this was preventing the system from coming up. I was hoping someone else might have run into a similar problem and might have a few pearls of wisdom to share. Thanks, -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000912/3900708b/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Sep 12 16:41:40 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <200009121415.HAA16922@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Sep 11, 0 11:16:02 pm" Message-ID: >> Its driving me nuts, but I really do remember that there was a REAL >> slowdown utility that ran I think on the Mac II era machines and wasted >> time so that your machine ran like either a SE or Plus, and it was both for >> fun and for testing code. > >Yeah, I thought there was too. Any ideas at all? > >I was able to find ZeroGravity in my gopher search database, so I can >definitely find software from that era. I just need a part of the name ... Slow has to be in the description, but my brain isn't giving me any good clues on the name. Rose or Rosie might be part of it, but sounds like a bad brain to me. A list of all software sorted by platform and year might be a nice thing to look at too. I plan to visit tidbits and maybe mactech and do searches with "slow or emulate". From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 12 16:30:07 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: <00e401c01cea$c7600e60$4e0e9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Sep 12, 2000 02:51:10 PM Message-ID: <200009122130.OAA08833@shell1.aracnet.com> > You put in another MVII board (or even a MVII and matching ram) and keep > trucking. Anyone whos wored with vaxen would know this. > > The system HWID is not a serial number that I'm aware of but a > model/product ID so that VMS (or Ultrix) "knows" a bit about the > processor > (or chipset) and it's busses. OK, I'd thought that the HWID was specific to that particular CPU board such as it is on a Sun Sparc. However, some 3rd party vendors use licensing schemes based on the MAC Address of the ethernet board. I know on Linux/x86 this can be changed. Can this be changed on VMS? My previous incorrect scenerio holds true if you're running software such as this. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 12 16:36:22 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? In-Reply-To: <011a01c01cfc$3f201f60$0c00000a@techcare.com> from "Sean Caron" at Sep 12, 0 04:58:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1183 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000912/a1dc009c/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Sep 12 17:30:30 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> A good read: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Makes a lot of points that I agree with :-) --Chuck [I apologize in advance for the thirty-eleven messages this may or may not spawn.] From spc at armigeron.com Tue Sep 12 17:57:39 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 12, 2000 03:30:30 PM Message-ID: <200009122257.SAA00322@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Chuck McManis once stated: > > A good read: > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > Makes a lot of points that I agree with :-) > --Chuck Wheren't you here this past February when we hashed all this out? Simon Hill has another point of view: http://www.metasystema.org/reply-to-useful.mhtml and even I make comment on this at http://linus.slab.conman.org/~spc/replyto.html I disagree with Chip and agree with Simon. But in any case, read RFC-822---it actually allows Reply-To: munging. -spc (And on my page, the list in question is this very list 8-P From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 12 16:59:39 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:26 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > A good read: > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > Makes a lot of points that I agree with :-) > --Chuck > [I apologize in advance for the thirty-eleven messages this may or may not > spawn.] And I'll be the first. I think a link to this essay was posted before, and my comments then are the same as now. This essay looks at this issue from the author's own self-serving and narrow-minded concerns. He bases his argument on nothing more than his own (unsubstantiated) opinions and preferences. You can take the same essay, change a few prepositions around, and come up with the exact opposite argument quite easily. Fooey. The author should be beat with a LART, and Chuck, you should be smacked for bringing this up again :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 12 18:12:56 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? Message-ID: <002201c01d0f$0f8a9830$f0099a8d@ajp166> >OK, I'd thought that the HWID was specific to that particular CPU board such >as it is on a Sun Sparc. Well it's specific in that a MVII will not ahve the same number as MVIII. >However, some 3rd party vendors use licensing schemes based on the MAC >Address of the ethernet board. I know on Linux/x86 this can be changed. >Can this be changed on VMS? My previous incorrect scenerio holds true if >you're running software such as this. Would work maybe. VMS can change MAC and I believe it does for DECNET. Allison From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Sep 12 18:56:12 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:59:39 -0700 (PDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000912235612.15092.qmail@brouhaha.com> > You can take the same essay, change a few prepositions around, and come up > with the exact opposite argument quite easily. Yes. Obviously the correct approach is to munge both the From and Reply-To headers so that unless the (l)user replying to a message edits his headers, the message will bounce! Then we wouldn't get private messages to the list, or public messages sent privately. Everyone wins! :-) From vaxman at uswest.net Tue Sep 12 20:04:39 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: VAX panic - buried models? In-Reply-To: <002201c01d0f$0f8a9830$f0099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: The HWID is NOT a serial number. The HWID is a number to allow the operating system (VMS, Ultrix, etc) what specific hardware it is running on. All uVAX IIs have the same HWID, etc. clint On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, ajp166 wrote: > >OK, I'd thought that the HWID was specific to that particular CPU board > such > >as it is on a Sun Sparc. > > > Well it's specific in that a MVII will not ahve the same number as MVIII. > > >However, some 3rd party vendors use licensing schemes based on the MAC > >Address of the ethernet board. I know on Linux/x86 this can be changed. > >Can this be changed on VMS? My previous incorrect scenerio holds true > if > >you're running software such as this. > > > Would work maybe. VMS can change MAC and I believe it does for DECNET. > > Allison > > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Sep 12 22:59:29 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <20000913035929.29253.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- ajp166 wrote: > From: Dwight Elvey > > > > There was no standard port used for serial I/O. and even if > >there was, the device could have been a AY-3-1015, a 8251 or > >a 8250. > > Wrong. The standard devices were usually AY-3-1015/COM2502 > based I never knew anything about the COM2502, but I have a wad of information (and spares) of the COM5025 - a sync serial chip from a (ISTR) DEC DUP-11 and later, the Software Results COMBOARD-I and COMBOARD-II (later models use the Zilog Z8530). If anyone needs COM5025 chips, please contact me. Given my rate of consumption, I have several lifetimes worth. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Sep 13 00:10:44 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: GA 3345 safe Message-ID: <00b801c01d40$f8937660$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Hi guys & gals, Passed on the responses from the group here to the guy in Qld regarding the GA 3345. It jolted his interest level, and it appears it may have a safe home already. Got the following response. Quote:- "I just rang the guy from yesterdays generally distributed e-mail and he says that the unit has absolutely no documentation, nor any sign what operating system it ran, and he is only guessing by saying it is over 25 years old. He has been approached already by the "museum" run by the UQ Computing department and they have indicated they will take the complete thing off them. (This museum is just a collection of PDP and other early stuff in the foyer of one level of their building). Currently it is in the Qld Dept of Natural Resources Offices, Brisbane, and was being held by someone starting a surveying museum, but they realised this had nothing specifically to do with surveying. He has said he will contact me if the UQ offer falls through." End Quote. Just to make sure it won't become razor blades, I've made a firm offer to take it if the UQ proposal does collapse in a heap, just in case...... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Sep 13 03:43:36 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen Message-ID: <00Sep13.094337bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Hi folks, In trying to make 1 good SE out of 2 bad ones I managed to send the screen to decompression hell while unbending a bent pin on the yoke.....grrr.....so, before I start dismantling other dead Macs the question is can I use the screen from either a Plus or Classic? And obvious 2nd question - anyone want the bones of an SE for possible macquarium use or something along those lines? There's only the case, PSU, dead screen and analogue board left though. cheers! adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - 80's computer collection From rachael_ at gmx.net Tue Sep 12 12:45:57 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? Message-ID: <681.290T2856T11254780rachael_@gmx.net> >Its driving me nuts, but I really do remember that there was a REAL >slowdown utility that ran I think on the Mac II era machines and wasted >time so that your machine ran like either a SE or Plus, and it was both for >fun and for testing code. Can`t you disable the cpu cache somehow ? I know from my Amigas that doing so slows it down to a near crawl. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 13 08:24:31 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? In-Reply-To: <681.290T2856T11254780rachael_@gmx.net> from Jacob Dahl Pind at "Sep 13, 0 10:53:33 am" Message-ID: <200009131324.GAA14600@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Its driving me nuts, but I really do remember that there was a REAL > >slowdown utility that ran I think on the Mac II era machines and wasted > >time so that your machine ran like either a SE or Plus, and it was both for > >fun and for testing code. > > Can`t you disable the cpu cache somehow ? I know from my Amigas that > doing so slows it down to a near crawl. But does this work on SE/30's? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time wounds all heels. -- Groucho Marx ------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 13 08:35:30 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen In-Reply-To: <00Sep13.094337bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from Adrian Graham at "Sep 13, 0 09:43:36 am" Message-ID: <200009131335.GAA09264@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In trying to make 1 good SE out of 2 bad ones I managed to send the screen > to decompression hell while unbending a bent pin on the > yoke.....grrr.....so, before I start dismantling other dead Macs the > question is can I use the screen from either a Plus or Classic? > And obvious 2nd question - anyone want the bones of an SE for possible > macquarium use or something along those lines? There's only the case, PSU, > dead screen and analogue board left though. Since you've successfully(? :-) disassembled yours, what did you use for those top recessed screws? They look like an Allen wrench would fit but it doesn't seem to be working on mine. The lower ones appear to be Torx. Incidentally, does Finder 6.0.2 take 1GB disks? (hope hope hope) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ---- From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Sep 13 09:16:50 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen Message-ID: <00Sep13.151651bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> After much searching for the right size tool I eventually accepted defeat and bought a specific tool (well, in reality it's just a 15" T15 driver) called a MacCracker from RS Components for ukp5.95. Having done that however you sharp discover the other Torx bits within a Mac that need (or would be fiddly without) said long driver so it's worth the money. a > -----Original Message----- > From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] > Sent: 13 September 2000 14:59 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac SE screen > > > > In trying to make 1 good SE out of 2 bad ones I managed to > send the screen > > to decompression hell while unbending a bent pin on the > > yoke.....grrr.....so, before I start dismantling other dead Macs the > > question is can I use the screen from either a Plus or Classic? > > And obvious 2nd question - anyone want the bones of an SE > for possible > > macquarium use or something along those lines? There's only > the case, PSU, > > dead screen and analogue board left though. > > Since you've successfully(? :-) disassembled yours, what did > you use for > those top recessed screws? They look like an Allen wrench > would fit but > it doesn't seem to be working on mine. The lower ones appear > to be Torx. > > Incidentally, does Finder 6.0.2 take 1GB disks? (hope hope hope) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ---- From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Sep 13 10:50:23 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000913104657.00bf8930@pc> At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> A good read: >> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html >> Makes a lot of points that I agree with :-) > >Fooey. The author should be beat with a LART, and Chuck, you should be >smacked for bringing this up again :) In Eudora 4.3, when I hit reply, I get: At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, you wrote: and when I hit Reply to All, I get: At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: which I like better, but it's addressed to classiccmp@classiccmp.org twice. - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 13 12:20:52 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen In-Reply-To: <200009131335.GAA09264@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Sep 13, 0 06:35:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000913/39593587/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 13 12:25:05 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen In-Reply-To: <00Sep13.094337bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from "Adrian Graham" at Sep 13, 0 09:43:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1114 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000913/36b00778/attachment.ksh From sean at techcare.com Wed Sep 13 13:40:36 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? References: Message-ID: <012801c01db2$1b5085a0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: Re: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? > > I have two DECstation 5000/200 systems. When I got them, one powered on = > > but did not do > > anything (no output on serial console on port 3), while one would work = > > fine (console output > > on port 3, seemed to be functional, etc). I did not have any external = > > SCSI storage for them > > at the time, so I decided to store them until I could make use of them. > > > > About a week ago, I finally got a SCSI drive enclosure to mount a disk = > > in, so I decided to try > > getting one of the systems up and running with NetBSD/pmax. To my = > > surprise, however, now > > both of them do nothing on power-on! I had not touched them since I had = > > power-on tested them > > a few months previous, so I was at a loss as to knowing what had = > > happened. > > > First question (so I don't go off in totally the wrong direction). Does > _anything_ happen when you turn on the machine? Power on light? Fans > turning? Do you have a voltmeter? If so, check the 5V line at any of the > chips or at an internal drive connector. > > I want to establish if this is a power supply fault (probably an > open-circuit startup resistor) or a logic problem (which could be due to > the NVRAM losing its contents). > > -tony > The machine _seems_ to power on fine - the power light comes on, the fans turn, the diagnostic LEDs come on (although I'll have to check the combination when I return home; I'm at work right now), and major chips on the board seem to dissipate heat which would indicate that they're at least getting power. The DECstation 5000 series boxes are just board-and-power supply systems with no provision for mounting any internal disk drives (they were all housed in storage expansion cabinets), and in terms of power, the only things that are available are three cables to the motherboard. It's not particularly obvious which cable does what, so I've not actually had an oppertunity to check what the supply is putting out in terms of voltage. I'll take another look at that too. Thanks, -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 13 13:40:32 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? In-Reply-To: <012801c01db2$1b5085a0$0c00000a@techcare.com> from "Sean Caron" at Sep 13, 0 02:40:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1951 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000913/43cf98a1/attachment.ksh From cem14 at cornell.edu Wed Sep 13 13:54:18 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? References: <39BFCA0A.CC09B56B@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <39BFCD5A.6CA49521@cornell.edu> Hi Sean; These Decstations have a window in the back through which you can see eight small LEDs that display diagnostic info when the system goes through POST. Is there any activity in the LEDs on power up? If so, what is the last pattern that you see in the LEDs? Note that in many Decstations of this kind, the cpu runs too hot due to inadequate cooling and they die. I've had this happen twice. > Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:58:47 -0400 > From: "Sean Caron" > Subject: DECstation 5000/200 battery backed NVRAM failure? > > Just wondering if anyone knows if this could be a possible problem with = > this type of machine. > > I have two DECstation 5000/200 systems. When I got them, one powered on = > but did not do > anything (no output on serial console on port 3), while one would work = > fine (console output > on port 3, seemed to be functional, etc). I did not have any external = > SCSI storage for them > at the time, so I decided to store them until I could make use of them. > > About a week ago, I finally got a SCSI drive enclosure to mount a disk = > in, so I decided to try > getting one of the systems up and running with NetBSD/pmax. To my = > surprise, however, now > both of them do nothing on power-on! I had not touched them since I had = > power-on tested them > a few months previous, so I was at a loss as to knowing what had = > happened. NetBsd is a good choice for these systems. I have two. I also have a couple of 5000/33's, but netBSD doesn't support the advanced framebuffers that they have; it only supports the built-in framebuffer, which won't talk to the monitors that came with the machines. So they're still running Ultrix (ugh). > > The only thing that I found that I even remotely suspect could be at = > fault is what looked like one > of those Dallas battery-backed clock/NVRAM chips. I was wondering if = > perhaps the battery had > died and this was preventing the system from coming up. > > > - -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > ------------------------------ -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14@cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Sep 13 17:08:58 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000913104657.00bf8930@pc> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000913170858.399f8c94@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:50 AM 9/13/00 -0500, you wrote: >At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >>On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: >> >>> A good read: >>> http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html >>> Makes a lot of points that I agree with :-) >> >>Fooey. The author should be beat with a LART, and Chuck, you should be >>smacked for bringing this up again :) > >In Eudora 4.3, when I hit reply, I get: > > At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, you wrote: > >and when I hit Reply to All, I get: > > At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >which I like better, but it's addressed to classiccmp@classiccmp.org twice. > >- John > I have Eudora 3.0.1 and it does the same thing. I wonder why? Joe From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Sep 13 17:57:30 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Altair Emulator enhancements - progress report - questions Message-ID: <005001c01dd7$9e6f6ad0$fe0b9a8d@ajp166> From: Ethan Dicks >If anyone needs COM5025 chips, please contact me. Given my rate of >consumption, I have several lifetimes worth. Use them to make FDCs or serial mag tape systems. I have a handfull of them too. Allison From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Sep 13 19:42:36 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems used in computer rooms. Through the school of hard knocks, I just learned first hand how such systems operate. Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the Washington DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning - 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a few seconds. (Operations is a *big* room. It was fitted with eight giant red tanks of Halon.) Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarm allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid! The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceiling tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the consoles. Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutes until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others to relieve them. Some who did stick around eventually left in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.) The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this. Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal. Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couple of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker - oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know. I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, you *get out*. Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump. This Halon is Good Stuff. Other than some grit blasted from the ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery. What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today? Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire, but at the same time not damage vital equipment? Tim. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Sep 13 20:13:55 2000 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: RCS/RI fleamarket and open house Message-ID: This is a reminder that the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island, Inc., will be holding a much needed flea market this Saturday, at our Millspace in Providence, RI. See our page at www.osfn.org/rcs for directions and details. What is going? Mostly small computer stuff - lots of home computers and micros, maybe a few *nix workstations. Conditions vary greatly! Prices will be rock bottom, as we need to clear out the room for more BIG machines. We have no list - rather the list will be formulated as we pick thru the stuff. The usual bunch will be around, and any and all are invited to stick around for dinner and beer. William Donzelli From elvey at hal.com Wed Sep 13 20:34:36 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <200009140134.SAA13425@civic.hal.com> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceiling > tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the > consoles. Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks > in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutes > until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others > to relieve them. Some who did stick around eventually left > in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.) Hi If they were in the Halon environment for 10 minutes and didn't pass out, I'd think that the system wasn't size right for the space. We were told that even though the un-burnt Halon is non toxic, that doesn't mean it is a substitute for air. I'm surprised that anyone stayed in the room with the Halon. Dwight From swperk at earthlink.net Wed Sep 13 21:37:29 2000 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Free to good home: Two Epson QX-10 systems in San Diego References: Message-ID: <39C039E9.2D89383E@earthlink.net> Hello all, I acquired two Epson QX-10 systems in excellent condition, complete with many diskettes and some documentation. Unfortunately, I do not have as much free time as I had thought I would, so I won't have an opportunity to play with^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H research these classics. I am making them available to anyone who is interested and will be able to make use of them. I would *greatly* prefer local pick-up. Regards, Stan Perkins Please note my new e-mail address: swperk@earthlink.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Sep 13 21:56:48 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> My experience with Halon extinguishing systems is somewhat different (IBM Field Information Systems, Boulder CO). If the extinguishing system went off in the computer room and you were able to remain conscious for more than 2 minutes without an oxygen mask then it wasn't working. Granted I never did figure out if the Halon merely bound with the oxygen tightly (thus removing it from the atmosphere) or if heat was required. I did know that staying in the same room was not considered survivable :-( --Chuck P.S. No, there is no good substitute yet. Nor is there any conclusive evidence that Halon has any effect on the ozone layer or its "hole". From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Sep 13 22:03:30 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <006901c01df8$da632740$fe0b9a8d@ajp166> >Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal. It can very nearly be. It's an oxygen displacer and non combustable in itself and non posionous but it's not oxygen! It can be lethal due to oxygen deprevation. What makes it fairly safe like you saw is that it's quite heavy compared to air and hungs the floor. Those that didn't leave were in my estimation quite foolish. Many years ago one of the halon similars (freon12) was spilled in a room I was working in, roughly 35 gallons of it due to a valve left open. I was quite blue when I was dragged out of the room as it had displaced all the air and only the fact that I'd been under the HEPA curtain doing work (also why I didn't initially notice it) there was outside make up fresh air added or I'd have been hospital fodder or worse. Freon and halon are related as florinated or halogenated hydrocarbons and both are low boiling point, heavy compared to air and non combustable. They are also both oxygen displacents makeing them dangerous in closed rooms and effective for fire control (both as a mild cooant and removing oxygen) while fairly inert. I'm sure there are varients of R134A in use or similar still used. Allison From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 13 22:48:04 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Free to good home: Two Epson QX-10 systems in San Diego In-Reply-To: <39C039E9.2D89383E@earthlink.net> from Stan Perkins at "Sep 13, 0 07:37:29 pm" Message-ID: <200009140348.UAA17494@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I acquired two Epson QX-10 systems in excellent condition, complete with > many diskettes and some documentation. Unfortunately, I do not have as > much free time as I had thought I would, so I won't have an opportunity > to play with^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H research these classics. I am making them > available to anyone who is interested and will be able to make use of > them. I would *greatly* prefer local pick-up. How big are the systems? I'll be heading home this weekend (I live in La Mesa). Are these the Forth-based ones? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Life is like a simile. ----------------------------------------------------- From spc at armigeron.com Wed Sep 13 22:44:37 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 13, 2000 07:56:48 PM Message-ID: <200009140344.XAA31783@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Chuck McManis once stated: > > P.S. No, there is no good substitute yet. Nor is there any conclusive > evidence that Halon has any effect on the ozone layer or its "hole". Have the patents that cover Halon expired? I've heard that Freon (which used to be covered by patents) isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to be, and that the recent legislation to have it banned came about just after the patents expired (and thus the major chemical companies would actually face competition). -spc (Just something that makes you go ``Hmmmmmmm ... '') From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 13 22:13:48 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the Washington > DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when > someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the > solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning - > 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a few > seconds. (Operations is a *big* room. It was fitted with eight > giant red tanks of Halon.) So where were you in all this? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Sep 14 02:37:50 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: OT: reply-to essay" (Sep 13, 17:08) References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <3.0.1.16.20000913170858.399f8c94@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <10009140837.ZM4715@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 13, 17:08, Joe wrote: > At 10:50 AM 9/13/00 -0500, you wrote: > >In Eudora 4.3, when I hit reply, I get: > > > > At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, you wrote: > > > >and when I hit Reply to All, I get: > > > > At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > >which I like better, but it's addressed to classiccmp@classiccmp.org twice. > > > >- John > > > > I have Eudora 3.0.1 and it does the same thing. I wonder why? Probably because in many systems like Eudora, "reply to all" replies to all the addresses in the "To:" line and the sender. The "Reply-to:" takes precedence over the "From:" and is set to "classiccmp@classiccmp.org", and the "To:" was also set to "classiccmp@classiccmp.org", it gets sent twice, and Eudora is too dumb to scan for duplicates. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Sep 14 03:22:13 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen Message-ID: <00Sep14.092213bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > I know that the CRT in a Mac+ is a pretty standard 9" mono > CRT, and that there's nothing odd about the pin configuration or operating > voltages. I suspect the SE's CRT is similar, but I've never had the > chance to pull one of those machines to bits. I'll do it then, and compare the numbers and boards etc, and check apple-history to make sure the resolutions were the same, which I think they were. > Incidentally, if you had 2 dead SEs and broke one of the CRTs, what > happened to the other CRT? It's not common for them to fail > electrically, although I guess it can happen. If the vacuum is still in the > CRT and the heater shows continuity (pins 3 and 4 on the B7G base) then > it's likely you'll get some kind of picture. The good old british postal service 'happened' to the other CRT. They dropped it when it was being transported and snapped the wee glass guide off the back, as well as doing some internal scraping damage with the HD carrier since it wasn't fastened in properly; I had a spare case, drive and CRT so a transplant should've been really simple! Duh. cheers! From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Sep 14 05:21:19 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <000914062119.202016cc@trailing-edge.com> >>Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal. >It can very nearly be. > >It's an oxygen displacer and non combustable in itself and non >posionous but it's not oxygen! It can be lethal due to oxygen >deprevation. What makes it fairly safe like you saw is that >it's quite heavy compared to air and hungs the floor. The air handlers also helped in removing the halon from the room. As I understand it, during a "normal" (electronically-triggered) Halon dump, the air handlers would have been cut off to maximize the effectiveness of the Halon. In fact, I've heard that Halon's density makes it more dangerous than if it didn't stratify. Unconscious folks, unfortunately, tend to have their noses only an inch or two from the floor... (Did I mention that my office is two floors *below* operations?) > Those that didn't leave were in my estimation quite foolish. These guys (and gals) take their jobs *very* seriously. They aren't going to let anything like the lack of oxygen get in their way! Tim. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Sep 14 05:24:55 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <000914062455.202016cc@trailing-edge.com> >> DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when >> someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the >> solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning - >> 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a few >> seconds. (Operations is a *big* room. It was fitted with eight >> giant red tanks of Halon.) >So where were you in all this? I was in a computer room (aka "concrete bunker") about 50 feet under Operations, swapping around a pair of Bell 212A-style modems. I had just been in Operations about five minutes earlier... When the halon dumped, the building fire alarm was set off (I think automatically) and we bugged out within maybe 15-20 seconds. Tim. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 14 09:48:38 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: OT: reply-to essay In-Reply-To: <10009140837.ZM4715@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000912152856.00c21220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> <3.0.1.16.20000913170858.399f8c94@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000914094838.456faf18@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:37 AM 9/14/00 GMT, Peter wrote: >On Sep 13, 17:08, Joe wrote: >> At 10:50 AM 9/13/00 -0500, you wrote: > >> >In Eudora 4.3, when I hit reply, I get: >> > >> > At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, you wrote: >> > >> >and when I hit Reply to All, I get: >> > >> > At 02:59 PM 9/12/00 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >> > >> >which I like better, but it's addressed to classiccmp@classiccmp.org >twice. >> > >> >- John >> > >> >> I have Eudora 3.0.1 and it does the same thing. I wonder why? > >Probably because in many systems like Eudora, "reply to all" replies to all >the addresses in the "To:" line and the sender. The "Reply-to:" takes >precedence over the "From:" and is set to "classiccmp@classiccmp.org", and >the "To:" was also set to "classiccmp@classiccmp.org", it gets sent twice, >and Eudora is too dumb to scan for duplicates. > You're probably correct but the price was right :-) Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 14 09:45:04 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> References: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000914094504.2c77eed0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:56 PM 9/13/00 -0700, Chuck wrote: > >P.S. No, there is no good substitute yet. Nor is there any conclusive >evidence that Halon has any effect on the ozone layer or its "hole". I've been told that there is now evidence that the ban on freons (including Halon) has had zero effect on the Ozone layer but that the US government is unwilling to admit that it was wrong about the relationship between freon and the loss of the ozone layer. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 14 09:51:58 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000914062119.202016cc@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000914095158.456fdc22@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:21 AM 9/14/00 -0400, Tim wrote: >These guys (and gals) take their jobs *very* seriously. They aren't going >to let anything like the lack of oxygen get in their way! This sounds like a good formula for rapid job promotion! Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 14 09:40:14 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000914094014.45e70a78@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tim, great story! I used to work in a couple of places that used Halon too and the stuff made me nervous as hell. Surprisingly, this is the first time that I've actually heard of one of the systems being triggered. Based on what I've been told, Halon is a type of freon and is definitely considered non-enviromentaly friendly and that it's manufacture has been banned in the US along with many of the traditional freons. If so, what are they replacing it with for fire supression? I've heard that Halon is still in great demand and that stuff is worth a fortune. Keep us informed about any effects that the workers have from the Halon, I've never talked to anyone that has had direct exposure to the stuff. >consoles. Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks >in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutes If some folks can't leave the area immediately you should suggest (insist!) that they provide air packs. I used to work around a LARGE liguid ammonia refrigeration plant and we had air packs pre-positioned all over the plant in case of a leak. Thank God we never had to use them. Liguid ammonia makes Halon look like a child's toy by comparision. Joe At 08:42 PM 9/13/00 -0400, Tim wrote: >A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems >used in computer rooms. Through the school of hard knocks, >I just learned first hand how such systems operate. > >Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the Washington >DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when >someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the >solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning - >2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a few >seconds. (Operations is a *big* room. It was fitted with eight >giant red tanks of Halon.) > >Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarm >allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is >bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid! > >The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceiling >tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the >consoles. Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks >in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutes >until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others >to relieve them. Some who did stick around eventually left >in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.) > >The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this. > >Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal. >Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couple >of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker - >oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know. >I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, you >*get out*. Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man >switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump. > >This Halon is Good Stuff. Other than some grit blasted from the >ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery. >What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today? >Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire, >but at the same time not damage vital equipment? > >Tim. > From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Sep 14 09:23:30 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000914094014.45e70a78@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: > If so, what are they replacing it with for fire supression? I've never understood what would be wrong with plain old tanks of nitrogen. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 14 09:49:05 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB123@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceiling > tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the > consoles. Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks > in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutes > until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others > to relieve them. Some who did stick around eventually left > in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.) Back in my Prime days, when we got our Halon system, the salesman demonstrated it at their cost after installation. Triggering it deliberately, the result was as you describe. Additionally, boxes of greenbar that were open had the top layes of paper sucked out of the box, without breaking the perfs, sending it flying. He stood in there for 15 minutes, lighting matches which went out immediately, so we could see how well it worked. He drove away in his car, didn't crash or die. As it was explained to me, Halon is safe, but under temperatures that would kill anything organic, it can transform to a deadly gas. The joke was that the gas didn't kill you, but the reason you weren't supposed to be in the room if you had to trigger it manually was to avoid the shrapnel when the spheres exploded. > The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this. Actually, I think one of the CDC disk drives went offline. > Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal. > Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couple > of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker - > oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know. > I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, you > *get out*. Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man > switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump. Again, we were told, given the choice of breathing air or Halon, choose air everytime. But Halon was safe and we didn't need to worry. > This Halon is Good Stuff. Other than some grit blasted from the > ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery. > What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today? > Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire, > but at the same time not damage vital equipment? You can buy small Halon extinguishers still, but only at your local civil airport for your plane. I have recently heard, however, that there is a replacment gas that does just as well, but can't recall its name. Does seem that it starts with an "H", though. regards, -doug q From pat at transarc.ibm.com Thu Sep 14 10:06:15 2000 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB123@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: The cool thing about Halon (and why it is an effective fire supressant) is that it does not work by displacing oxygen - of course, it *will* displace oxygen in large enough quantity. It works by chemically interfering with the process of combustion. You don't need a whole lot to put out a fire. I'm not sure why you'd need to dump so much Halon into a computer room that it would suffocate a human, unless you were just trying to make sure that it would get into everything in case there was a fire. I have three Halon extinguishers at home, and wouldn't be without them. I gave one to my fiancee' (now my wife....) at one point when she was living in her own apartment, "just to be safe". And wouldn't you know, she had a grease fire in her oven one night. One big spray from the Halon, and it was out. Very, very cool. --Pat. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 14 11:13:23 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009140344.XAA31783@armigeron.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914090849.00d8ca40@208.226.86.10> At 11:44 PM 9/13/00 -0400, you wrote: > Have the patents that cover Halon expired? I've heard that Freon (which >used to be covered by patents) isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to >be, and that the recent legislation to have it banned came about just after >the patents expired (and thus the major chemical companies would actually >face competition). It isn't patents, it is the CFC treaty (Osaks?) that bans the production (first) and then use (second) of CFCs based on their alleged, but unproven, impact on the ozone layer surrounding the earth. Note that I do not dispute that there is a gap in the ozone layer around the earth, only that no one has yet given anything more than conjecture on why it exists, and since we don't have historical data on its existence (or lack thereof) we don't yet have anyway of proving or disproving said conjectures, but something that _was_ a provable way of saving _actual human lives_ was banned because of it. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 14 11:18:16 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000914094504.2c77eed0@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914091530.00bd2ef0@208.226.86.10> At 09:45 AM 9/14/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >At 07:56 PM 9/13/00 -0700, Chuck wrote: > > > >P.S. No, there is no good substitute yet. Nor is there any conclusive > >evidence that Halon has any effect on the ozone layer or its "hole". > > I've been told that there is now evidence that the ban on freons >(including Halon) has had zero effect on the Ozone layer but that the US >government is unwilling to admit that it was wrong about the relationship >between freon and the loss of the ozone layer. This is correct (sort of), no one has proven CFCs affect the ozone layer (its hard to come up with good experiments) and so far the results of the global experiment (banning the use of CFCs) has been uniformly negative. [measurable differences in the detectability of CFCs and no measure change in the behaviour of the ozone.] The next great disaster headed our way is banning the production of CO2, aka the "greenhouse" gas. --Chuck From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Sep 14 11:27:55 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000914094504.2c77eed0@mailhost.intellistar.net>; from rigdonj@intellistar.net on Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 09:45:04AM -0500 References: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> <3.0.1.16.20000914094504.2c77eed0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <20000914092755.A739@loomcom.com> On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 09:45:04AM -0500, Joe wrote: > At 07:56 PM 9/13/00 -0700, Chuck wrote: > > > >P.S. No, there is no good substitute yet. Nor is there any conclusive > >evidence that Halon has any effect on the ozone layer or its "hole". > > I've been told that there is now evidence that the ban on freons > (including Halon) has had zero effect on the Ozone layer but that the US > government is unwilling to admit that it was wrong about the relationship > between freon and the loss of the ozone layer. > > Joe I've noticed a lot of folks are using FM-200 now (U.S. Patent # 5,124,053 for those interested). I unfortunately don't know much about it, but they seem to have a lot of propaganda at http://www.fm-200.com/. They claim that it's "People Safe", and that FM-200 is used in pharmeceutical inhalers as propellent. That doesn't necessarily mean I'd like to breath it instead of oxygen, though. -Seth From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 14 11:41:24 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <20000914164124.87393.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > At 11:44 PM 9/13/00 -0400, you wrote: > >I've heard that Freon...isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to > >be, and that the recent legislation to have it banned came about just after > >the patents expired > > It isn't patents, it is the CFC treaty (Osaks?) that bans the production > (first) and then use (second) of CFCs based on their alleged, but unproven, > impact on the ozone layer surrounding the earth. Note that I do not dispute > that there is a gap in the ozone layer around the earth, only that no one > has yet given anything more than conjecture on why it exists, and since we > don't have historical data on its existence (or lack thereof) we don't yet > have anyway of proving or disproving said conjectures, but something that > _was_ a provable way of saving _actual human lives_ was banned because of > it. I have personally worked with scientists from the University of Wyoming and technicians from NASA Goddard Space Flight Center who directly and indirectly measure the ozone hole and the chemicals that are harmful to ozone (CFCs, Bromine compounds, etc.) I have helped launch balloons and collect telemetry data. No doubt that I'm not an unbiased source, but even though I think CFCs are nifty compounds at ground level for lots of tasks (cooling, cleaning, etc.), at 30,000m, they are not a) natural and b) harmless. At McMurdo, in spaces with electrical equipment, rather than Halon, there are built-in C02 fire-supression systems. They are much larger physically, and harmful to humans, but CO2 poisoning vs. Halon suffocation leave you just as dead. -ethan http://penguincentral.com/ozone.html ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 14 10:50:58 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914091530.00bd2ef0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > The next great disaster headed our way is banning the production of CO2, > aka the "greenhouse" gas. I'm stockpiling dry ice. Halloween just wouldn't be the same without it. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 14 10:52:48 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914090849.00d8ca40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > It isn't patents, it is the CFC treaty (Osaks?) that bans the production > (first) and then use (second) of CFCs based on their alleged, but unproven, > impact on the ozone layer surrounding the earth. Note that I do not dispute > that there is a gap in the ozone layer around the earth, only that no one > has yet given anything more than conjecture on why it exists, and since we > don't have historical data on its existence (or lack thereof) we don't yet > have anyway of proving or disproving said conjectures, but something that > _was_ a provable way of saving _actual human lives_ was banned because of > it. The ozone layer probably didn't exist until we invented electricity :0 This Stupid Thought of the Day is brought to you by the Vintage Computer Festival...have you registered your exhibit yet? http://www.vintage.org/2000/exhibit.html Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 14 12:17:24 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen In-Reply-To: <00Sep14.092213bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from "Adrian Graham" at Sep 14, 0 09:22:13 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000914/c9c33b5f/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 14 12:39:46 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <20000914164124.87393.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> Ethan and others, My intention is not to offend, and I apologize if I have. Further I wish to clarify that I have no issues with the _science_ that is being done to understand our planet and the things that go on around it. I have a _serious_ issue with people who do not understand that science is a continual process and that at any given point it can be _completely_ inaccurate in the projections it makes. This has been true since before Galileo was put on trial for disputing scientific theories of the time that the world was _not_ the center of the universe. In the case of ozone it has been shown that CFCs can catalyze ozone given the right conditions, but any theory of the ozone layer has to include that umptyzillion terawatt ozone generator known to you and I know as the Sun. The same is happening with the Global Warming crud. If you assume that we've got tolerable climate records for the last 500 years and you assume that it took 15 MILLION years after the event that wiped out the dinosaurs for the climate to "settle down." If you compare the amount of time we've been watching the macro "global" climate changes to the very well known and studied "micro" climate changes that happen every year, then we have been watching the macro cycles for an equivalent of about 5 minutes of elapsed time. If you were plopped on to this planet and observed the climate for 5 minutes could you predict what was going to happen the rest of the year or even THEORIZE about why it would change? No you couldn't. We've been studying the annual cycle for decades and we still don't completely understand the relationships between El Nina and the weather. We've got a fossil record that _clearly_ shows the planet gets a lot hotter and a lot colder than it is now over periods ranging from 100,000 to 250,000 years, and yet some irresponsible scientists insist in their hubris that it is somehow "man's" fault that the damn global climate is changing, and since its our fault we should be able to do something about it, even when everyone knows we can't stop a hurricane, so how could we possibly have the gall to believe we could alter a temperature cycle that not only have we only just begun to appreciate, but has occurred for millennia without us even being present to observe it?! I used to marvel at the stories of Mayan priests sacrificing human lives so that the seasons would come, now I weep at the stories of politicians who, at the behest of modern scientists, are sacrificing entire generations to try to stop the earth from proceeding through its natural cycles. Regards, --Chuck At 09:41 AM 9/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >--- Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 11:44 PM 9/13/00 -0400, you wrote: > > >I've heard that Freon...isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to > > >be, and that the recent legislation to have it banned came about just > after > > >the patents expired > > > > It isn't patents, it is the CFC treaty (Osaks?) that bans the production > > (first) and then use (second) of CFCs based on their alleged, but > unproven, > > impact on the ozone layer surrounding the earth. Note that I do not > dispute > > that there is a gap in the ozone layer around the earth, only that no one > > has yet given anything more than conjecture on why it exists, and since we > > don't have historical data on its existence (or lack thereof) we don't yet > > have anyway of proving or disproving said conjectures, but something that > > _was_ a provable way of saving _actual human lives_ was banned because of > > it. > >I have personally worked with scientists from the University of Wyoming and >technicians from NASA Goddard Space Flight Center who directly and indirectly >measure the ozone hole and the chemicals that are harmful to ozone (CFCs, >Bromine compounds, etc.) I have helped launch balloons and collect telemetry >data. No doubt that I'm not an unbiased source, but even though I think CFCs >are nifty compounds at ground level for lots of tasks (cooling, cleaning, >etc.), >at 30,000m, they are not a) natural and b) harmless. > >At McMurdo, in spaces with electrical equipment, rather than Halon, there are >built-in C02 fire-supression systems. They are much larger physically, and >harmful to humans, but CO2 poisoning vs. Halon suffocation leave you just as >dead. > >-ethan > >http://penguincentral.com/ozone.html > > > >===== >Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > >The original webpage address is still going away. The >permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > >See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Thu Sep 14 13:11:32 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <000501c01e77$588a8b30$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> >My intention is not to offend, and... ....sacrificing human >lives so that the seasons would come, now I weep at the stories of >politicians who, at the behest of modern scientists, are sacrificing entire >generations to try to stop the earth from proceeding through its natural >cycles. >--Chuck Obvious... The Internet causes global warming. All those flamers. John A. From spc at armigeron.com Thu Sep 14 13:15:58 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:27 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <20000914092755.A739@loomcom.com> from "sjm" at Sep 14, 2000 09:27:55 AM Message-ID: <200009141815.OAA15041@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great sjm once stated: > > I've noticed a lot of folks are using FM-200 now (U.S. Patent # 5,124,053 > for those interested). I unfortunately don't know much about it, > but they seem to have a lot of propaganda at http://www.fm-200.com/. My prediction: in 20 years, evidence will show up proving that FM-200 shouldn't be used but this wonderful new chemical X (U.S. Patent #....) should be, for whatever reason. -spc (Just some speculation ... 8-) From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Sep 14 13:23:57 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> from Chuck McManis at "Sep 14, 2000 10:39:46 am" Message-ID: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > In the case of ozone it has > been shown that CFCs can catalyze ozone given the right conditions, but any > theory of the ozone layer has to include that umptyzillion terawatt ozone > generator known to you and I know as the Sun. The same is happening with > the Global Warming crud. If you assume that we've got tolerable climate > records for the last 500 years and you assume that it took 15 MILLION years > after the event that wiped out the dinosaurs for the climate to "settle > down." In otherwords, you argue that outside of substantial concrete evidence that we are affecting the environment we should do whatever the hell we want regardless of whether there is any reason to believe that it will affect the environment. Sounds damn short sighted to me. A better course of action is to work to minimize our impacts regardless of what they might be. We might not know exactly what the effects of pumping vast amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere will be, but we know there will be effects. Isn't that a good enough reason to exercise caution? I think you also underestimate the quality of the data regrading the effects of stratospheric chlorine compounds on the ozone layer. No one claims that it is the only thing affecting ozone concentrations, but very few would deny that it is having an effect. > I used to marvel at the stories of Mayan priests sacrificing human > lives so that the seasons would come, now I weep at the stories of > politicians who, at the behest of modern scientists, are sacrificing entire > generations to try to stop the earth from proceeding through its natural > cycles. I think you're mistaking exactly who it is that is "sacrificing entire generations." You also have as little evidence to support your claim that recent global temperature changes are part of a natural cycle (perhaps less) as those that claim that recent temperature changes are linked to rising CO2 levels. You are as guilty of letting your pollitics influence your view of reality as they are. Eric From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Sep 14 13:58:19 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Sep 14, 0 11:23:57 am" Message-ID: <200009141858.LAA09074@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > In otherwords, you argue that outside of substantial concrete evidence > that we are affecting the environment we should do whatever the hell we want > regardless of whether there is any reason to believe that it will affect > the environment. Can we get back to computers now? Seconds? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Innovation is hard to schedule. -- Dan Fylstra ----------------------------- From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Sep 14 14:06:57 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point References: Message-ID: <027101c01e7e$f5f8a6c0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Or CO2 for that matter (handles easier than Liquid nitrogen and is also rather heavey) Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sudbrink To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:23 PM Subject: RE: Halon dumps: a data point > > If so, what are they replacing it with for fire supression? > > I've never understood what would be wrong with plain old > tanks of nitrogen. > From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Sep 14 14:23:25 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point References: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> <4.3.2.7.2.20000914090849.00d8ca40@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <028501c01e81$458c2200$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I've read an article recently that discribed the discovery of a new substance that has been found to damage the ozone layer above the polar regions. I don't know the exact name of the stuff but the gest of the article was that it was 1600 times more potent in destroying ozone than the normal chlorine catalytic effect (the chlorine ions are released from the CFC's, and presumably the Halons as well. A single catalyc molecule becomes the catalyst in destroying a large amount of ozone molecules) The new stuff was suspected to be a "breakdown" product of SF2 which is also released by modern industrial processes. We may have been banning the wrong stuff after all. But it's good to be on the safe side for now since we only got ONE ozonelayer. Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck McManis To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Halon dumps: a data point > At 11:44 PM 9/13/00 -0400, you wrote: > > Have the patents that cover Halon expired? I've heard that Freon (which > >used to be covered by patents) isn't nearly as dangerous as it's made out to > >be, and that the recent legislation to have it banned came about just after > >the patents expired (and thus the major chemical companies would actually > >face competition). > > It isn't patents, it is the CFC treaty (Osaks?) that bans the production > (first) and then use (second) of CFCs based on their alleged, but unproven, > impact on the ozone layer surrounding the earth. Note that I do not dispute > that there is a gap in the ozone layer around the earth, only that no one > has yet given anything more than conjecture on why it exists, and since we > don't have historical data on its existence (or lack thereof) we don't yet > have anyway of proving or disproving said conjectures, but something that > _was_ a provable way of saving _actual human lives_ was banned because of > it. > > --Chuck > > From marvin at rain.org Thu Sep 14 14:44:19 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point References: <200009141858.LAA09074@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <39C12A93.271F9A81@rain.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > In otherwords, you argue that outside of substantial concrete evidence > > that we are affecting the environment we should do whatever the hell we want > > regardless of whether there is any reason to believe that it will affect > > the environment. > > Can we get back to computers now? Seconds? I'll second that, but realize I also tend to very much agree with Chuck! ******************* The environmental movement as it is today would not exist were it not for scientific illiteracy. From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Sep 14 14:50:38 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Shugart 1004 Message-ID: What are the specs for a Shugart 1004 8" hard drive? Thanks, Bill From donm at cts.com Thu Sep 14 15:05:43 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > If so, what are they replacing it with for fire supression? > > I've never understood what would be wrong with plain old > tanks of nitrogen. > Should work just fine, I'd think. However, it would certainly need the addition of an odorizer in the event of leaks. Anoxia is a very quiet and peaceful way to go! - don From donm at cts.com Thu Sep 14 15:09:13 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Pat Barron wrote: > The cool thing about Halon (and why it is an effective fire supressant) is > that it does not work by displacing oxygen - of course, it *will* displace > oxygen in large enough quantity. It works by chemically interfering with > the process of combustion. You don't need a whole lot to put out a fire. > I'm not sure why you'd need to dump so much Halon into a computer room > that it would suffocate a human, unless you were just trying to make sure > that it would get into everything in case there was a fire. > > I have three Halon extinguishers at home, and wouldn't be without them. > I gave one to my fiancee' (now my wife....) at one point when she was > living in her own apartment, "just to be safe". And wouldn't you know, > she had a grease fire in her oven one night. One big spray from the > Halon, and it was out. Very, very cool. > > --Pat. > Beats the hell out of dry powder when it's time for cleanup! - don From richard at idcomm.com Thu Sep 14 15:07:38 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Shugart 1004 References: Message-ID: <001301c01e87$6f390540$0500c0a8@winbook> I don't have all the spec's memorized, per se, but I do have one of the drives in my lap at the moment. It's an 8" 4-head drive with 256 cylinders. Nominal capacity, FM, raw, is 10+ MB, formats to 8MB under CP/M using 32 256-byte sectors per track. Rotates at 3125 rpm and uses a data rate of 4.34 Mbps. Spindle drive is 110VAC, while the stepper uses 24 volts. The board uses +5 for logic and optionally via jumper, -12 VDC or -5 VDC. The power is brought in via connectors and pinout identical to those on 8" FDD's. These make a great, and great-looking companion to a pair of HH 8" floppies, which work from the same supplies. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sudbrink To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 1:50 PM Subject: Shugart 1004 > What are the specs for a Shugart 1004 8" hard drive? > > Thanks, > > Bill > > From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 14 15:18:03 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: [OT] CFCs vs. Ozone layer (was Re: Halon dumps: a data point) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> (message from Chuck McManis on Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:39:46 -0700) References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20000914201803.7743.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck is absolutely right. There *may* be some real scientific research being conducted on the effect of CFCs on the ozone layer, but the limited information the politicians have based the ban on is "junk science" at best. I suggest reading the essay "Paranoia and Profit - Holes in the Ozone Scare" by James P. Hogan. It's available online at: http://www.monadnock.net/fanspaces/hogan/truth_06.html From donm at cts.com Thu Sep 14 15:20:43 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > In the case of ozone it has > > been shown that CFCs can catalyze ozone given the right conditions, but any > > theory of the ozone layer has to include that umptyzillion terawatt ozone > > generator known to you and I know as the Sun. The same is happening with > > the Global Warming crud. If you assume that we've got tolerable climate > > records for the last 500 years and you assume that it took 15 MILLION years > > after the event that wiped out the dinosaurs for the climate to "settle > > down." > > In otherwords, you argue that outside of substantial concrete evidence > that we are affecting the environment we should do whatever the hell we want > regardless of whether there is any reason to believe that it will affect > the environment. Sounds damn short sighted to me. A better course of > action is to work to minimize our impacts regardless of what they might be. > We might not know exactly what the effects of pumping vast amounts of CO2 > into the atmosphere will be, but we know there will be effects. Isn't that > a good enough reason to exercise caution? Well, plant more trees, shrubs, and grass and let photosynthesis do its work. But that means irrigation, and water is seldom where you want/need it, so... Lotsa problems, few solutions! - don > I think you also underestimate the quality of the data regrading the effects > of stratospheric chlorine compounds on the ozone layer. No one claims > that it is the only thing affecting ozone concentrations, but very few > would deny that it is having an effect. > > > I used to marvel at the stories of Mayan priests sacrificing human > > lives so that the seasons would come, now I weep at the stories of > > politicians who, at the behest of modern scientists, are sacrificing entire > > generations to try to stop the earth from proceeding through its natural > > cycles. > > I think you're mistaking exactly who it is that is "sacrificing entire > generations." You also have as little evidence to support your claim > that recent global temperature changes are part of a natural cycle (perhaps > less) as those that claim that recent temperature changes are linked to > rising CO2 levels. You are as guilty of letting your pollitics influence > your view of reality as they are. > > Eric > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Sep 14 21:16:20 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914091530.00bd2ef0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Hello Chuck On 14-Sep-00, you wrote: <> >>> P.S. No, there is no good substitute yet. Nor is there any conclusive >>> evidence that Halon has any effect on the ozone layer or its "hole". >> >> I've been told that there is now evidence that the ban on freons >> (including Halon) has had zero effect on the Ozone layer but that the US >> government is unwilling to admit that it was wrong about the relationship >> between freon and the loss of the ozone layer. When I was in school I was taught that the ozone layer was in a continuous state of degeneration/regenration, as O2 became O3 and back. Then, explain the ozone hole over Antarctica, which has little need for CFCs as a refrigerant. <> > > The next great disaster headed our way is banning the production of CO2, > aka the "greenhouse" gas. Let's get rid of all the plant life then. They all need CO2, which through photosynthesis, creates the oxygen we need for life. Best to stop and think before putting one's Nike's into one's facial orifice . . . . Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 14 15:30:07 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> (korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu) References: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20000914203007.8394.qmail@brouhaha.com> Eric J. Korpela wrote: > We might not know exactly what the effects of pumping vast amounts of CO2 > into the atmosphere will be, but we know there will be effects. Isn't that > a good enough reason to exercise caution? No. It's unlikely that we simply stop producing CO2. More likely we replace processes that produce CO2 with processes that produce other waste products. The environmental impact of those other waste products is even *less* understood. > I think you also underestimate the quality of the data regrading the effects > of stratospheric chlorine compounds on the ozone layer. No one claims > that it is the only thing affecting ozone concentrations, but very few > would deny that it is having an effect. Some of them do deny that it's having an effect. The actual measurements do not back up the claim that decreased use of CFCs will reduce the ozone hole. The point isn't that the hypothesis is wrong, but that it's not sufficiently tested, and that there is in fact counterevidence. So it's foolish to rush out and change from using CFCs with well-known properties to other chemicals with less known effects. > You are as guilty of letting your pollitics influence > your view of reality as they are. As are you. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Sep 14 15:31:23 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <028501c01e81$458c2200$030101ac@boll.casema.net> (sipke@wxs.nl) References: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> <4.3.2.7.2.20000914090849.00d8ca40@208.226.86.10> <028501c01e81$458c2200$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <20000914203123.8477.qmail@brouhaha.com> Sipke de Wal wrote: > But it's good to be on the safe side for now since > we only got ONE ozonelayer. That's a non-sequiter. More ozone is being produced in the upper atmosphere continuously. Otherwise it all would have been gone millions of years ago. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 14 17:03:29 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20000914094014.45e70a78@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000914170329.3277ab0a@mailhost.intellistar.net> It's not as effient at putting out fires as Halon and it yet still has the same problem (suffocation hazard). The same applies to CO2. Joe At 10:23 AM 9/14/00 -0400, you wrote: >> If so, what are they replacing it with for fire supression? > >I've never understood what would be wrong with plain old >tanks of nitrogen. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Sep 14 22:20:21 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000914222021.30ef374e@mailhost.intellistar.net> The ridiculous thing about the Osaka treaty (banning Freons) is that it only bans the production and use in the US and other major countries. It does nothing to prevent it's use on second and third world counties. In fact, right now the production (and smuggling into the US) of freon is going full blast in Mexico. My guess is that there is probably just as much being produced now as there ever was but it has shifted to third world countries. The "ban" is nothing but feel-good politics and continous to ignore the problem (if indeed there really is one)! Going more and more OT, Joe At 11:23 AM 9/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >> In the case of ozone it has >> been shown that CFCs can catalyze ozone given the right conditions, but any >> theory of the ozone layer has to include that umptyzillion terawatt ozone >> generator known to you and I know as the Sun. The same is happening with >> the Global Warming crud. If you assume that we've got tolerable climate >> records for the last 500 years and you assume that it took 15 MILLION years >> after the event that wiped out the dinosaurs for the climate to "settle >> down." > >In otherwords, you argue that outside of substantial concrete evidence >that we are affecting the environment we should do whatever the hell we want >regardless of whether there is any reason to believe that it will affect >the environment. Sounds damn short sighted to me. A better course of >action is to work to minimize our impacts regardless of what they might be. >We might not know exactly what the effects of pumping vast amounts of CO2 >into the atmosphere will be, but we know there will be effects. Isn't that >a good enough reason to exercise caution? > >I think you also underestimate the quality of the data regrading the effects >of stratospheric chlorine compounds on the ozone layer. No one claims >that it is the only thing affecting ozone concentrations, but very few >would deny that it is having an effect. > >> I used to marvel at the stories of Mayan priests sacrificing human >> lives so that the seasons would come, now I weep at the stories of >> politicians who, at the behest of modern scientists, are sacrificing entire >> generations to try to stop the earth from proceeding through its natural >> cycles. > >I think you're mistaking exactly who it is that is "sacrificing entire >generations." You also have as little evidence to support your claim >that recent global temperature changes are part of a natural cycle (perhaps >less) as those that claim that recent temperature changes are linked to >rising CO2 levels. You are as guilty of letting your pollitics influence >your view of reality as they are. > >Eric > From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Sep 14 17:15:53 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: OT: Ozone depletion (was Halon dumps) References: <4.3.1.2.20000913195201.02b68a40@208.226.86.10> <4.3.2.7.2.20000914090849.00d8ca40@208.226.86.10> <028501c01e81$458c2200$030101ac@boll.casema.net> <20000914203123.8477.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <02df01c01e99$5c555660$030101ac@boll.casema.net> But we don't know if we use up more than gets replenished on the short run. The long run may be after we all had our melanomas and then nature will eventualy fix the problem again. Species have gone extinct for less environmental intrusion than we have created. Maybe our number is up this time It's a bit like a frog in a cooking vessel with the fire turned up under it. At what temp. does he decide to jump out of the vessel? After all, first the water is nice balmy warm. But eventually it gets a bit hot, he get doubts about staying there, but by the time he's reached his decision to jump, he is already half cooked and is unabe to jump. meanwhile froggy scientist keep on debating the issues............ Sipke de Wal ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 10:31 PM Subject: Re: Halon dumps: a data point > Sipke de Wal wrote: > > But it's good to be on the safe side for now since > > we only got ONE ozonelayer. > > That's a non-sequiter. More ozone is being produced in the upper > atmosphere continuously. Otherwise it all would have been gone > millions of years ago. > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 14 17:09:17 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <20000914220917.35609.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > When I was in school I was taught that the ozone layer was in a continuous > state of degeneration/regenration, as O2 became O3 and back. Then, explain > the ozone hole over Antarctica, which has little need for CFCs as a > refrigerant. This is soooo far off topic... CFCs are distributed somewhat uniformly over the stratosphere. The reason why Antarctica is the location of the hole is due to climate... You need several things in proximity to "cause" the hole - A halogen ion (Chlorine and to a lesser concentration, Bromine), a place to work and energy. The place to work is the surface of certain sizes of ice crystals (high-altitude clouds) that only form at temps well below -60F. Sunlight is the source of energy. The ozone hole opens up in Antarctica every "spring" because that's when the sun rises (providing energy) and that's when the air is cold enough to make the proper kinds of clouds. By late October, it's warm enough that the clouds no longer form and the Polar Convergence dissapates, allowing the ozone-poor air over the continent to mix with "normal" air from higher latitudes, diluting the ozone over Australia and New Zealand, primarily. The way the model works, it's "natural" for the hole to open and close on an annual cycle. The real question is, how much of this is due to man-made sources of chlorine. The direct measurements show that CFCs released at ground level take several (18?) months to make their way to 30,000m. Since eventually the chlorine ion forms a stable compound, each one has a vast, but finite capacity to convert O3 to O2. The hypothesis is that more man-made chlorine in the stratosphere means less ozone. The data I have seen suggests that the more we pump out, the more rapidly the depletion occurs each Spring. For the skeptical: the above is not gospel written in stone. It is my understanding of the best explanation of the observed phenomena to date. I am not a scientist, but I did assist researchers in data collecting and reporting. We now return you to your regularly scheduled topics. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Sep 14 18:02:30 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009141823.LAA01118@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: I've always wondered about the claim that CO2 causes global warming... Mars' atmosphere is mostly CO2, but Mars isn't warm.... Perhaps a more accurate question to ask is: What is the effect of all the sources of heat (new and old) that we are currently using? Almost every(*1) megawatt, gigawatt, petawatt that is generated in the world is turned into heat eventually. In addition, we are burning fossil fuels that captured the energy of the sun millions of years ago, and releasing that energy as well. How much power is required to heat the ocean by 1 degree C? At our current (exponentially increasing) rate of consumption of energy, how long will it take to heat the ocean? If some idiot actually devises a scheme for cold fusion, how long will it take for the human race to cook itself? clint (*1) A very small amount of energy is used to convert small molecules into larger molecules. This energy isn't converted to heat until the molecules are broken down at a later time. From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Sep 14 18:57:50 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8900 booter Message-ID: <39C165FE.6C9530D5@arrl.net> Anyone know what boot device was installed in this ? I know that earlier Vaxen used PDP11s. A quick search of the net yielded little information about this model. I've got a line on one about to be dismantled and want to find out if theres anything in it worth salvaging. Don't have access to it, its 1000 miles away. But I have a friend there willing to scout it for me. Thanks. Nick From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Sep 14 19:02:17 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Need PDP 11/03 MEM Message-ID: <39C16709.BBFC5DF7@arrl.net> Anyone have a 4k M8044 or equivalent they want to sell ? Must be no larger than 4Kw. Please contact me off list. Thanks ............ Nick From Anthony.Eros at compaq.com Thu Sep 14 19:12:35 2000 From: Anthony.Eros at compaq.com (Eros, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available Message-ID: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4DFD@alfexc5.alf.dec.com> I have an opportunity to get up to a dozen DEC Computer Lab units. The DEC Computer Lab was a tabletop digital logic trainer (see attached picture) providing gates, flip-flops, a clock source, switch (full throw and pulsed) inputs and lamp outputs that allowed a student to wire up various logic circuits using patch cords. These units are mostly complete (some may be missing rocker switch covers or have some burned-out lamps) but do not have patch cords or documentation and are as-is. I may be able to provide a Xerox copy of a DEC computer lab workbook for copy costs if desired. We're looking at about $200-250 per unit, plus shipping/copy costs as required. I pulled the attached picture off the web to show an example of how the lab looks, I don't have a picture of the specific units that are available. If people are interested, I can collect some bucks, pick up the units, pack them up and ship 'em out. Please contact me off list and let me know if you'd like one of these lab units. -- Tony <> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: deccomputerlab.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 22544 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000914/915a7762/deccomputerlab.jpg From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Sep 14 19:17:10 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <20000914203007.8394.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Sep 14, 2000 08:30:07 pm" Message-ID: <200009150017.RAA04811@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > We might not know exactly what the effects of pumping vast amounts of CO2 > > into the atmosphere will be, but we know there will be effects. Isn't that > > a good enough reason to exercise caution? > > No. It's unlikely that we simply stop producing CO2. More likely we > replace processes that produce CO2 with processes that produce other > waste products. Not quite. The main trick is to stop using sources of carbon dioxide that are outside of the carbon cycle. Once you get to renewable hydrocarbon sources, the CO2 problem goes away. > The environmental impact of those other waste products > is even *less* understood. Hell, even nuclear is better than fossil fuels. (A fairly simple risk assesment shows that nuclear power plants save a lot of lives.) > > I think you also underestimate the quality of the data regrading the effects > > of stratospheric chlorine compounds on the ozone layer. No one claims > > that it is the only thing affecting ozone concentrations, but very few > > would deny that it is having an effect. > > Some of them do deny that it's having an effect. The actual measurements > do not back up the claim that decreased use of CFCs will reduce the ozone > hole. Nor do the measurements indicate that decreased use of CFCs will not reduce ozone depletion. The link between antarctic ozone depletion and CFC emissions is pretty well established by in-situ measurements. The effects at lower latitude are not so obvious. There is no data corresponding to decreased CFC use given that the effects of decreased CFC use will take 20-30 years to show up in the ozone levels. > The point isn't that the hypothesis is wrong, but that it's not sufficiently > tested, and that there is in fact counterevidence. So it's foolish to > rush out and change from using CFCs with well-known properties to other > chemicals with less known effects. The "counterevidence" is probably wishful thinking. Antarctic ozone levels have been dropping since the 70s, the reactants and the catalysts have been measured in-situ, and the link to CFCs is well established. Researchers don't even use "may" in their papers, prefering to now use statements like "The depletion is caused chiefly by ozone reacting chemically with chlorine and bromine from industrially manufactured gases." I promise this my final entry to this discussion. I'm sorry I couldn't let the rants of those who feel differently go unopposed. My next message will be about a broken jumper wire on the one of the boards in my Tandy 6000. Eric From elvey at hal.com Thu Sep 14 19:23:05 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009150017.RAA04811@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <200009150023.RAA18637@civic.hal.com> Hi I'll be off the air until tomorrow morning. Please don't fill my in-box with this thread. Thanks Dwight From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 14 19:34:59 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009150017.RAA04811@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <20000914203007.8394.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914173024.00df5d30@208.226.86.10> At 05:17 PM 9/14/00 -0700, Eric wrote: >The link between antarctic ozone depletion and CFC emissions >is pretty well established by in-situ measurements. Please provide a reference for this, I follow several science journals (both refereed an non-refereed) and a definitive study that links the Chlorine ions in Antarctic ozone to CFC emissions should have shown up prominently either in one of them or in references by other studies. --Chuck From emu at ecubics.com Thu Sep 14 20:07:11 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a References: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4DFD@alfexc5.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: <39C1763F.23079C8F@ecubics.com> Hi, Anybody here has an am9519a datasheet (amd interrupt controller) ? copies ? scans ? pdf file ? thanks a lot, emanuel From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Sep 14 20:13:36 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4DFD@alfexc5.alf.dec.c om> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000914181336.00984c40@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 19:12 14-09-2000 -0500, Anthony Eros wrote: >I have an opportunity to get up to a dozen DEC Computer Lab units. The DEC >Computer Lab was a tabletop digital logic trainer (see attached picture) And you also posted a binary file to the entire mailing list, regardless of whether or not everyone would be interested in such a unit (I would be, but at nowhere near the price you're asking. If you or Compaq really wants that much for them, then you'd probably do better taking them to E-[over]pay). A better way to make an image file available is to put it on a web site, and simply post a link to it to the list. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From at258 at osfn.org Thu Sep 14 20:17:11 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009150017.RAA04811@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > I promise this my final entry to this discussion. I'm sorry I couldn't let > the rants of those who feel differently go unopposed. My next message will > be about a broken jumper wire on the one of the boards in my Tandy 6000. Broken jumper wires in a 6000 are almost always caused by excessive levels of Halon or other CFC's in the case. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Sep 14 20:33:26 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914173024.00df5d30@208.226.86.10> from Chuck McManis at "Sep 14, 2000 05:34:59 pm" Message-ID: <200009150133.SAA05660@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > At 05:17 PM 9/14/00 -0700, Eric wrote: > >The link between antarctic ozone depletion and CFC emissions > >is pretty well established by in-situ measurements. > > Please provide a reference for this, I follow several science journals > (both refereed an non-refereed) and a definitive study that links the > Chlorine ions in Antarctic ozone to CFC emissions should have shown up > prominently either in one of them or in references by other studies. I'll break my promise for this request for a reference. >From an old file on the subject I find: Russell et al. 1996 Nature 379, 526. "Satellite Confirmation of the Dominance of Chlorofluorocarbons in the Global Stratospheric Chlorine Budget" I'm sure there would be something more recent if I looked. Numerous papers link chlorine ions to low ozone concentration through in situ measurements. Any one of a hundred would do, like: Newman et al. 1997 GRL 24, 2689 "Anomalously low ozone over the Arctic" Eric From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 14 20:30:50 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a Message-ID: <00a401c01eb5$b24f9e10$310b9a8d@ajp166> It's a much better version of what the 8259 should be. I'd have to find my 1983 AMD databook for more. Allison -----Original Message----- From: emanuel stiebler To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: am9519a >Hi, >Anybody here has an am9519a datasheet (amd interrupt controller) ? >copies ? scans ? pdf file ? > >thanks a lot, >emanuel > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 14 20:24:14 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: VAX 8900 booter Message-ID: <00a301c01eb5$b09f2ef0$310b9a8d@ajp166> I believe it used a pro350 or 380 with a special interface board set as a system console. Pros are PDP-11 FYI. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Nick Oliviero To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 8:18 PM Subject: VAX 8900 booter >Anyone know what boot device was installed in this ? >I know that earlier Vaxen used PDP11s. A quick search >of the net yielded little information about this model. > >I've got a line on one about to be dismantled and want >to find out if theres anything in it worth salvaging. Don't >have access to it, its 1000 miles away. But I have a friend >there willing to scout it for me. Thanks. > > Nick > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 14 20:08:46 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a In-Reply-To: <39C1763F.23079C8F@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Sep 14, 0 07:07:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 364 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000915/f299705a/attachment.ksh From Anthony.Eros at compaq.com Thu Sep 14 20:41:14 2000 From: Anthony.Eros at compaq.com (Eros, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available Message-ID: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4E1C@alfexc5.alf.dec.com> Bruce/ClassicCmp gang - Sorry about the binary post -- I wasn't thinking. I had been looking for one of these labs for years and got kind of carried away when a guy called me saying he had a bunch of them. The price is whatever I can negotiate with the guy -- I guess I could buy them and then list them on eBay, but it wasn't really what I had in mind. I apologize for a list posting that really came across looking like spam -- it wasn't my intent. -- Tony > ---------- > From: Bruce Lane[SMTP:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:13 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC Computer Labs available > > At 19:12 14-09-2000 -0500, Anthony Eros wrote: > > >I have an opportunity to get up to a dozen DEC Computer Lab units. The > DEC > >Computer Lab was a tabletop digital logic trainer (see attached picture) > > > > And you also posted a binary file to the entire mailing list, > regardless > of whether or not everyone would be interested in such a unit (I would be, > but at nowhere near the price you're asking. If you or Compaq really wants > that much for them, then you'd probably do better taking them to > E-[over]pay). > > A better way to make an image file available is to put it on a web > site, > and simply post a link to it to the list. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our > own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Sep 14 20:54:59 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available References: <3.0.5.32.20000914181336.00984c40@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <39C18173.9F90CD69@gorge.net> Gee, I had so much fun with that thing. OMSI had one, I once tried to build a very simple serial computer with the thing. With 8 JK-FF, it's really difficult. This was back in 73 at the west lab. I have to agree, $250 is quite a bit. Loved the wood case and the high quality construction. Hello to Jim Willing and Gary Oliver. Jim Davis. Bruce Lane wrote: > > At 19:12 14-09-2000 -0500, Anthony Eros wrote: > > And you also posted a binary file to the entire mailing list, regardless > of whether or not everyone would be interested in such a unit (I would be, > but at nowhere near the price you're asking. If you or Compaq really wants > that much for them, then you'd probably do better taking them to E-[over]pay). > > A better way to make an image file available is to put it on a web site, > and simply post a link to it to the list. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our > own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Sep 13 20:45:50 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a Message-ID: <05eb01c01ded$bb66e030$a652e780@L166> I beat you for once. I found my 1985 AMD book and I am already scanning it. I also have it in the 1984 IC master. Dan -----Original Message----- From: ajp166 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:43 PM Subject: Re: am9519a >It's a much better version of what the 8259 should be. >I'd have to find my 1983 AMD databook for more. > >Allison > >-----Original Message----- >From: emanuel stiebler >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:19 PM >Subject: am9519a > > >>Hi, >>Anybody here has an am9519a datasheet (amd interrupt controller) ? >>copies ? scans ? pdf file ? >> >>thanks a lot, >>emanuel >> From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Sep 14 21:10:42 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4E1C@alfexc5.alf.dec.c om> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000914191042.0098e460@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 20:41 14-09-2000 -0500, Tony Eros wrote: >Bruce/ClassicCmp gang - > >Sorry about the binary post -- I wasn't thinking. I had been looking for >one of these labs for years and got kind of carried away when a guy called >me saying he had a bunch of them. The price is whatever I can negotiate >with the guy -- I guess I could buy them and then list them on eBay, but it Ahhhh... Ok, then, I owe you an apology for being so snappish. Definitely not what -I- had in mind. Unfortunately, I'm in no position (at this time) to offer more than $50.00 for one, and I know that's probably going to be way too low. (sigh) Ahh, me... I can't save everything, and I feel very blessed indeed to come up with the stuff I have. Best of luck with them. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 14 21:36:38 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a Message-ID: <000601c01ebd$da34cec0$310b9a8d@ajp166> From: Daniel T. Burrows To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 10:19 PM Subject: Re: am9519a >I beat you for once. I found my 1985 AMD book and I am already scanning it. OH, a race. Anywho being able to scan it for him is good. I have the scanner but not tonight. Bed beckons. Allison From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Sep 14 21:30:56 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a In-Reply-To: <39C1763F.23079C8F@ecubics.com> Message-ID: Hi Emanuel, Are you back from Germany? The CU auction is This weekend, not last like I thought, though I can't go this weekend either :( Do you have the ability to read an 800 BPI tape? A friend of mine at work has a tape he'd like to get the files off of, but my TU80 won't read it... The tape was originally from an RT-11 system, but the files don't have to be un-formatted (a straight dd from a unix system would suffice)... If they are useful to you, I've got 10 brand new (sealed) 9-track tapes that I think are 800 BPI tapes. There isn't any printing on them, so I don't know for sure. Clint On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Hi, > Anybody here has an am9519a datasheet (amd interrupt controller) ? > copies ? scans ? pdf file ? > > thanks a lot, > emanuel > > From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Sep 14 21:43:12 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: "Merle K. Peirce"'s message of "Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:17:11 -0400 (EDT)" References: Message-ID: <200009150243.TAA01997@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > Broken jumper wires in a 6000 are almost always caused by excessive > levels of Halon or other CFC's in the case. Also the WD40 used to loosen the screws and lube the floppy drives. -Frank McConnell From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 14 22:52:37 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C18173.9F90CD69@gorge.net> from "Jim Davis" at Sep 14, 2000 06:54:59 PM Message-ID: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> > Gee, I had so much fun with that thing. OMSI had one, I once tried to > build a very simple serial computer with the thing. With 8 JK-FF, it's > really difficult. This was back in 73 at the west lab. I have to agree, > $250 is quite a bit. Loved the wood case and the high quality > construction. > Hello to Jim Willing and Gary Oliver. > Jim Davis. How could OMSI have sunk this low? I never was aware of any of this when I was growing up and visiting there in the 70's and 80's. However, you go there now and they just don't have any cool exhibits like they used to. What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. I'd probably write it myself if I could remember enough about how it went. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 14 22:54:59 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000914191042.0098e460@pop.sttl.uswest.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Sep 14, 2000 07:10:42 PM Message-ID: <200009150354.UAA22934@shell1.aracnet.com> > Unfortunately, I'm in no position (at this time) to offer more than $50.00 > for one, and I know that's probably going to be way too low. Don't feel bad Bruce. I'm in the same boat. I'd really love one of these, but can't afford one right now :^( Now if someone could provide the plans for one I'd be interested in building one eventually! Zane From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Sep 13 22:24:06 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: am9519a Message-ID: <064f01c01dfe$56b1de90$a652e780@L166> >>I beat you for once. I found my 1985 AMD book and I am already scanning >it. > > >OH, a race. Anywho being able to scan it for him is good. I have the >scanner >but not tonight. Bed beckons. That is not what I meant. It amazes me how you and several others on this list can come up with so much good info at the drop of a hat. Bed beckons here but I have several more things to finish for customers tonight. Dan From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Sep 14 23:45:56 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available References: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <39C1A984.C3C93A68@gorge.net> The west lab was restricted. You went down to the focault area and headed west, around the corner, to the far west end of the building, past the classrooms. the door at the end of the hall was the west lab, Containing a real PDP-8, the pdp-11/45 (rsts), and a bunch of other goodies. Gamatron irraditor, liquid nitrogen, lasers, tons of chemicals, a great collection of electronic junk and a bunch of student projects. Had a desk in there for a year or so. Up in a closet, I located that little gem. Played with it for months. Wish I still had my old OMSI software teeshirt. Rusty Whitney and Dan fouts? ran the place. Terror: the time I plugged in a he-ne laser and it shorted the 220 and 110 mains. It blew up the swap drum on the 8. healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > Gee, I had so much fun with that thing. OMSI had one, I once tried to > > build a very simple serial computer with the thing. With 8 JK-FF, it's > > really difficult. This was back in 73 at the west lab. I have to agree, > > $250 is quite a bit. Loved the wood case and the high quality > > construction. > > Hello to Jim Willing and Gary Oliver. > > Jim Davis. > > How could OMSI have sunk this low? I never was aware of any of this when I > was growing up and visiting there in the 70's and 80's. However, you go > there now and they just don't have any cool exhibits like they used to. > > What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" > like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. I'd > probably write it myself if I could remember enough about how it went. > > Zane From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Sep 14 23:52:18 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available References: <200009150354.UAA22934@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <39C1AB02.8CE9C343@gorge.net> Just zoom up the picture of the beast. 8 JKs, a bunch of gates, incandecent lamp drivers and some switches, had a variable rate clock generator and debounced pulse switches. Not much more. Surface was high density particle board silkscreened with the logic symbols and sides of walnut. the patch cords plugs were fairly large 1/16"? and plugged into brass sockets mounted at the intersection of the logic symbols. That all I can remember. Jim Davis. healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > Unfortunately, I'm in no position (at this time) to offer more than $50.00 > > for one, and I know that's probably going to be way too low. > > Don't feel bad Bruce. I'm in the same boat. I'd really love one of these, > but can't afford one right now :^( > > Now if someone could provide the plans for one I'd be interested in building > one eventually! > > Zane From jimdavis at gorge.net Fri Sep 15 00:23:05 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available References: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <39C1B239.C06EDE9E@gorge.net> Wumpus, easy game. create a 2D room matrix, initialize with nothing ( empty room ) Drop a wumpus in a randomly picked room. Choose a room, Not the wumpus room!, for the player On a move, traverse all the rooms connected to your players room, But only to a depth of 2 rooms, you would look at a total of 16 rooms. 4 rooms first pass, If the wumpus is within 1 room, "you see a wumpus", if it's 2 levels out, "you smell a wumpus". Then you move. I don't remember if you treat the edges as blocked "you can't go that way", or wrap to the other side. If your room is the wumpus room, game over. The diagram below shows the search pattern. P is player, 1's are first level search "i see a wumpus", 2's are " i smell a wumpus" N XX2XX X212X W 21P12 E X212X XX2XX S I smell a wumpus. "W" N XXWXX X212X W 21P12 E X212X XX2XX S Have fun. Jim Davis. healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > Gee, I had so much fun with that thing. OMSI had one, I once tried to > > build a very simple serial computer with the thing. With 8 JK-FF, it's > > really difficult. This was back in 73 at the west lab. I have to agree, > > $250 is quite a bit. Loved the wood case and the high quality > > construction. > > Hello to Jim Willing and Gary Oliver. > > Jim Davis. > > How could OMSI have sunk this low? I never was aware of any of this when I > was growing up and visiting there in the 70's and 80's. However, you go > there now and they just don't have any cool exhibits like they used to. > > What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" > like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. I'd > probably write it myself if I could remember enough about how it went. > > Zane From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 14 23:13:57 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > How much power is required to heat the ocean by 1 degree C? At our > current (exponentially increasing) rate of consumption of energy, > how long will it take to heat the ocean? Someone did a study of this, going back through decades old records acquired from different sources, one of which was a bunch of temperature readings recorded on punched cards. Back on topic, baby! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 14 23:18:44 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4E1C@alfexc5.alf.dec.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Eros, Anthony wrote: > Sorry about the binary post -- I wasn't thinking. I had been looking for > one of these labs for years and got kind of carried away when a guy called > me saying he had a bunch of them. The price is whatever I can negotiate > with the guy -- I guess I could buy them and then list them on eBay, but it > wasn't really what I had in mind. I think you need to negotiate them down to less than $50 per unit. $35 each sounds fair to me, considering they are old, incomplete, lacking documentation, and in unknown, as-is condition. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Sep 15 00:35:42 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:28 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C1A984.C3C93A68@gorge.net> References: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000914223012.00d0b1d0@agora.rdrop.com> Hi back! At 09:45 PM 9/14/00, Jim Davis wrote: >The west lab was restricted. You went down to the focault area and headed >west, >around the corner, to the far west end of the building, past the classrooms. >the door at the end of the hall was the west lab, Containing a real PDP-8, >the pdp-11/45 (rsts), and a bunch of other goodies. Restricted? Well... ok, to the general unwashed... I don't remember ever getting any (ok, much) grief for being in there... Except maybe after crashing the '45 trying to improve the idle sequences light flash routine... B^} >Gamatron irraditor, liquid >nitrogen, lasers, tons of chemicals, a great collection of electronic junk and >a bunch of student projects. Had a desk in there for a year or so. Up in >a closet, I located that little gem. Played with it for months. Was that the same closet where they kept the Votrax mainframe stashed? >Wish I still had my old OMSI software teeshirt. Rusty Whitney and Dan >fouts? ran the place. Where is Rusty these days? Last time I saw him was when I was invited to participate on a computer education task force at OMSI some many years back... Scary part was, he still remembered (and recognized) me... One of the first things he said after hello was: "have you learned how to type yet?" >Terror: the time I plugged in a he-ne laser and it >shorted the 220 and 110 mains. It blew up the swap drum on the 8. So that was you, eh? Dang, keep yer lasers away from the drives on my 8-I !!! B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 15 00:42:16 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <200009150243.TAA01997@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: Is WD-40 really the primary cause of global warming? From nabil at SpiritOne.com Fri Sep 15 01:24:28 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" > like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. What did it run on? -- Aaron Nabil From jimdavis at gorge.net Fri Sep 15 01:53:05 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available References: Message-ID: <39C1C751.820D3A50@gorge.net> Most likely a Tek 4010, If it was the RSTS version I'm thinking of. It was such a minimalist game, it could run on anything. Sounds like a good contest. The smallest "hunt the wumpus" game. Teco would probably win. JimD. BTW: Jim Willing, Get back you to tomorrow. Too much to write tonight. Jim Davis. Aaron Nabil wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" > > like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. > > What did it run on? > > -- > Aaron Nabil From nabil at SpiritOne.com Fri Sep 15 02:27:03 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C1C751.820D3A50@gorge.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Jim Davis wrote: > Most likely a Tek 4010, If it was the RSTS version I'm thinking of. > It was such a minimalist game, it could run on anything. > Sounds like a good contest. The smallest "hunt the wumpus" game. > Teco would probably win. > JimD. > BTW: Jim Willing, Get back you to tomorrow. Too much to write tonight. > Jim Davis. It's possible I have a copy of it then, I have all of their PDP-8 software on DECtape and there were a few PDP-11 tapes as well, some of them RSTS stuff. -- Aaron Nabil From jimdavis at gorge.net Fri Sep 15 03:41:57 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available References: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20000914223012.00d0b1d0@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <39C1E0D5.E93C7781@gorge.net> "Back", Heh That was a long time ago. I didn't get it until now. "Hi, I'm Back", ROTFL, I guess I'm a little slow, but that's why I program, So the machines can keep up. ;) What ever happened to crusty/crunchy ( stinky ) Christensen? Let me guess? He's working (for the dark forces) at intel? Gak... BTW: I have about 10K lbs of goodies in my garage. I'm about ready to cut loose with a trade-a-thon. Interested? Jim Davis. James Willing wrote: > > Hi back! > > jimw@computergarage.org > The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 15 04:21:01 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems >used in computer rooms. Through the school of hard knocks, >I just learned first hand how such systems operate. I was in a 25x25' computer room, alarm sounded, we scuttled out, then looking in the window it seemed like nothing happened. Stuck our noses in, seemed ok, so we went back to work. We were checking some on board diagnostics, and the lady I was working with was reading some status lights for me to check in a manual and proceed on a test terminal. As soon as she started reading off the numbers we knew something had happened as her voice dropped an octave or two. Kind of the opposite of helium. We didn't stay in the room, but noticed no ill effects, and returned a few minutes later after the room was refreshed. My understanding is that the only problem with halon is that it can displace the oxygen, not that it has some direct toxic effect. OTOH lets not repeat the last thread. From jimdavis at gorge.net Fri Sep 15 04:10:35 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available References: <200009150352.UAA22794@shell1.aracnet.com> <39C1B239.C06EDE9E@gorge.net> Message-ID: <39C1E78B.FBE36715@gorge.net> Hi, Oops, I just re-read your post. The terminal you are refering to was connected to a HP2000-c With the break key disabled. We pulled the keycap off and removed the washer, trying to get into the into the system but it didn't work. I think it was an televideo terminal. Regardless, Wumpus would be a great beginner programming project. Anyone remember cutting HS classes to go to the educational computer expo at the Portland Hilton hotel? ( for 3 years in a row ) And stealing passwords from the math teachers at the bank of asr33's who didn't notice. You would have needed a neon sign and a sledge hammer, since their attention was focused on finding the next letter to press on the KB. Jim Davis wrote: > > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > > What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" > > like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. I'd > > probably write it myself if I could remember enough about how it went. > > > > Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 15 05:40:23 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB123@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >You can buy small Halon extinguishers still, but only at your local >civil airport for your plane. I have recently heard, however, that >there is a replacment gas that does just as well, but can't recall >its name. Does seem that it starts with an "H", though. I certainly hope its still around. I have a couple small ones, that I figure were well worth the price, and I am not getting rid of them until the dial is seriously below green. To me a typical powder system is worthless, ever see the mess those make? Better to let it burn. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 15 05:49:31 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB123@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >I have three Halon extinguishers at home, and wouldn't be without them. >I gave one to my fiancee' (now my wife....) at one point when she was >living in her own apartment, "just to be safe". And wouldn't you know, >she had a grease fire in her oven one night. One big spray from the Sheesh, around here we call that dinner. ;) Who needs a dinner bell with a smoke alarm? 2:47 am and now I am thinking about a nice steak.... mmmm couple runny eggs. From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Sep 15 06:20:29 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11 *free* in the UK Message-ID: <20000915062029.Y13715@mrbill.net> An email I received @ pdp11.org: - - - - From engdesk at intelfaxdev.co.uk Fri Sep 15 06:08:38 2000 From: engdesk at intelfaxdev.co.uk (Andrew Bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: We have a PDP11 that needs a good home Message-ID: We have three large, heavy pieces of computer equipment marked PDP11/44, TS05 +and RL02. If there is anybody in the UK who wants them, please drop us a line. +We will even give you a hand getting them into the van. - - - - If anyone's interested in that area, please get in touch with Mr. Bailey. -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From DPMURPHY at PARTNERS.ORG Fri Sep 15 07:25:37 2000 From: DPMURPHY at PARTNERS.ORG (Murphy, David P) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Computer lab Message-ID: <36298D09ED1AD311B4DC0008C7F4D4E101F99BC5@phsexch6.partners.org> Hi Tony. Count me in ! docs too. Dave Murphy dave.murphy@mediaone.net 617-726-6133 (work) 781-646-1726 (home) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Sep 15 07:34:41 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB125@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > Is WD-40 really the primary cause of global warming? > Well, it certainly has been responsible for its share of flames. :-) -dq From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Sep 15 05:38:32 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Mac slow-down utility? Message-ID: <504.293T1638T6983878rachael_@gmx.net> >But does this work on SE/30's? Yes as the cache is part of the 68030 cpu, the question is just where macOs supports such things or he has to find a 3part program to do that. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From whdawson at mlynk.com Fri Sep 15 10:03:53 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C1B239.C06EDE9E@gorge.net> Message-ID: <000001c01f26$2a2d3d00$9b9e72d1@cobweb.net> -> Wumpus, easy game. create a 2D room matrix, initialize with nothing (empty room ) IIRC, the original matrix was best visualized as being a "squashed dodecahedron". -> I don't remember if you treat the edges as blocked "you can't go that way", or -> wrap to the other side. The original Wampus didn't need to wrap, because every room had adjacent rooms. There is a good write-up of the game in one of the early issues of Byte magazine (within the first three years). Bill 53 41 4E 54 41 4E 53 From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 15 11:00:00 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > What is the effect of all the sources of heat (new and old) that we > are currently using? . . . > How much power is required to heat the ocean by 1 degree C? At our > current (exponentially increasing) rate of consumption of energy, > how long will it take to heat the ocean? How many Pentiums will it take to exterminate life as we know it? From rdd at smart.net Fri Sep 15 11:09:09 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Aaron Nabil wrote: [re: Wumpus] > > What did it run on? Is this a sign that I'm getting old ebcause I can remember when any reasonable UNIX box had the standard assortment of games installed on it, which were often distributed with the O.S. and found in the printed man pages, like Wumpus, Adventure, Hangman, etc.? Such are the problems of the Linuxization and SCOization of *NIX. What is the world coming to? :-( Of course, as I've said many times before, if you want to play the ultimate text-only adventure game, play VAX/VMS - if you win, you get to play UNIX, if you lose, you get stuck with some random Microsoft OS and an evil elf appears out of nowhere, steals all your gold and suddenly the magic word, XYZZY, no longer works. Now, what do you want to do? -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 15 10:57:52 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <000001c01f26$2a2d3d00$9b9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: > 53 41 4E 54 41 4E 53 S A N T A N S ? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From harrison at timharrison.com Fri Sep 15 12:00:25 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) References: Message-ID: <39C255A9.783F9840@timharrison.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Is this a sign that I'm getting old ebcause I can remember when any > reasonable UNIX box had the standard assortment of games installed on > it, which were often distributed with the O.S. and found in the > printed man pages, like Wumpus, Adventure, Hangman, etc.? Such are > the problems of the Linuxization and SCOization of *NIX. What is the > world coming to? :-( I might not have as much experience with older stuff as most, but it seems to me that those standards are adhered to, at least on the machines I run here: harrison@persuasion:/usr/games/bin > ls adventure bcd factor monop ppt rot13 trek arithmetic caesar fish morse primes sail wargames atc canfield gomoku number quiz snake worm backgammon cfscores hangman phantasia rain snscore worms banner cribbage hunt pig random teachgammon wump battlestar dm mille pom robots tetris-bsd My wife wouldn't run any type of UNIX if she couldn't play "adventure". And that would seriously limit my computer buying abilities. Come to think of it, my IRIX box doesn't have wumpus. Nor my NeXT. Ugh! -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Fri Sep 15 12:20:46 2000 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, my alltime favorite text-based game was on VMS..called conquest (multiplayer spacewar...totally awsome). Thankfully, someone recently converted it to run on unix (since I no longer have access to a VMS system)..so now I can run it on one of my unix boxes .... even my laptop! -Bob >On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Aaron Nabil wrote: >[re: Wumpus] > > > > What did it run on? > >Is this a sign that I'm getting old ebcause I can remember when any >reasonable UNIX box had the standard assortment of games installed on >it, which were often distributed with the O.S. and found in the >printed man pages, like Wumpus, Adventure, Hangman, etc.? Such are >the problems of the Linuxization and SCOization of *NIX. What is the >world coming to? :-( > >Of course, as I've said many times before, if you want to play the ultimate >text-only adventure game, play VAX/VMS - if you win, you get to play UNIX, >if you lose, you get stuck with some random Microsoft OS and an evil elf >appears out of nowhere, steals all your gold and suddenly the magic word, >XYZZY, no longer works. Now, what do you want to do? > >-- >R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of >rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to >http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like >410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Sep 15 12:24:28 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C1B239.C06EDE9E@gorge.net> from Jim Davis at "Sep 14, 2000 10:23:05 pm" Message-ID: <200009151724.KAA15499@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Wumpus, easy game. create a 2D room matrix, initialize with nothing ( > empty room ) I thought the rooms of wumpus were connected like the vertices of a dodecahedron... Maybe that's just one version that I remember. Eric From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Fri Sep 15 12:33:43 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: am9519a In-Reply-To: emanuel stiebler's message of "Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:07:11 -0600" Message-ID: ChipDir has a pinout here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ganswijk/chipdir/pin/am9519.txt They its (almost) pin-compatible with the 8259. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From ncherry at home.net Fri Sep 15 12:41:56 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) References: Message-ID: <39C25F64.B5ECAAC2@home.net> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Aaron Nabil wrote: > [re: Wumpus] > > > > What did it run on? > > Is this a sign that I'm getting old ebcause I can remember when any > reasonable UNIX box had the standard assortment of games installed on > it, which were often distributed with the O.S. and found in the > printed man pages, like Wumpus, Adventure, Hangman, etc.? Such are > the problems of the Linuxization and SCOization of *NIX. What is the > world coming to? :-( http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/games/strategy/ It's in there! BTW the first game I ever played was Adventure. I was supposed to be learning BASIC on a PDP 11 (huge rack) but it was later moved over to a pyramid. I managed to get an A in BASIC but I can't ever remember taking the course. I do remember fixing other peoples syntax, it interrupted my game (usually when a gnome appeared, I remember killing many a greasy gnome!). > Of course, as I've said many times before, if you want to play the ultimate > text-only adventure game, play VAX/VMS - if you win, you get to play UNIX, > if you lose, you get stuck with some random Microsoft OS and an evil elf > appears out of nowhere, steals all your gold and suddenly the magic word, > XYZZY, no longer works. Now, what do you want to do? CTRL-ALT-DEL -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From vaxman at uswest.net Fri Sep 15 13:09:34 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I personally attribute Pentiums as Creating life as I know it. Without the advent of cheap computers, I wouldn't be able to own a VAX 11/750. Of course, the VAX puts out way more heat for less work, so I'm doing more to hasten the heat death of the universe than a room full of Pentiums. Everyone needs a hobby.... clint On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > What is the effect of all the sources of heat (new and old) that we > > are currently using? . . . > > How much power is required to heat the ocean by 1 degree C? At our > > current (exponentially increasing) rate of consumption of energy, > > how long will it take to heat the ocean? > > How many Pentiums will it take to exterminate life as we know it? > > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Sep 15 13:22:59 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: [OT] CFCs vs. Ozone layer (was Re: Halon dumps: a data point) In-Reply-To: <20000914201803.7743.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000914101649.00db8570@208.226.86.10> (message from Chuck McManis on Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:39:46 -0700) Message-ID: <39C28523.8779.A8C541E@localhost> > Chuck is absolutely right. There *may* be some real scientific research > being conducted on the effect of CFCs on the ozone layer, but the > limited information the politicians have based the ban on is "junk > science" at best. I suggest reading the essay "Paranoia and Profit - > Holes in the Ozone Scare" by James P. Hogan. It's available online at: > http://www.monadnock.net/fanspaces/hogan/truth_06.html Well, reminds me a lot of similar stuff in the 70s about radioactive polution ... Since the very fist beginning man has been exposed to radiation, and normal radiation is an usual thing, so the low additional radiation is completely riskless - and when our scientists tell so, then the radiation emited in one of our minor leaks is no hazard... and so on. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 12:40:00 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 15, 0 12:09:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000915/31aafe16/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 15 13:31:50 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Pentium life extermination Message-ID: Hmm, well ignoring the heat, green house gasses, etc... I see it this way: each pentium sold = more $$$ for intel, which lets them buy more companies (they apparently own the justice department already, since they're more of a monopoly than microsoft), each new company = more money = more crap by intel = soon leads to the point where I give them money every day = quickly removes my desire to live. Of course, with as crappy and buggy as their chipsets, etc. have been getting, it might be debateble whether they'll achieve total world domination or explode in their own craptacular way... This is totally opinion, Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From bills at adrenaline.com Fri Sep 15 14:03:49 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Got my Sol!!!! Message-ID: My Sol came today!!!! happy happy happy happy From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Fri Sep 15 14:25:22 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Pentium life extermination In-Reply-To: ; from xds_sigma7@hotmail.com on Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:31:50PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20000915122522.A25887@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 12:31:50PM -0600, Will Jennings wrote: > Hmm, well ignoring the heat, green house gasses, etc... I see it this way: > each pentium sold = more $$$ for intel, which lets them buy more companies > (they apparently own the justice department already, since they're more of a > monopoly than microsoft), each new company = more money = more crap by intel No they aren't. AMD keeps becoming a better competitor; remember it wasn't that long ago that they only had cheaper but inferior clones, they didn't have processors which actually performed better than Intel's, even at the high end. But now they do. And there is also Transmeta. And Linux runs on so many processors. Even WinCE runs on a lot of processors, but Linux works so well that you usually only have to recompile the applications. Consequently in the PDA market almost noone uses Intel processors. Nowadays you make the choice based entirely on cost rather than compatibility. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From emu at ecubics.com Fri Sep 15 14:31:01 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: am9519a References: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F087B4DFD@alfexc5.alf.dec.com> <39C1763F.23079C8F@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <39C278F5.EF0CDE5D@ecubics.com> Hi, Just want to say THANKS to everybody who tried or helped ! I really appreciate that ! cheers, emanuel From ncherry at home.net Fri Sep 15 14:42:32 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! Message-ID: <39C27BA8.259A2C50@home.net> Now comes the questions, I don't know the commands for CPM does anyone know of a good intro to ccp? I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. In the mean I've backed up the roms and I'm about to investigate upgrading to ZsDOS (or something similar). I'm hoping the ATR8000 will be able to access the Atari 800 drives, that way I can hook it up to my Linux box and it can act as a large floppy drive. I know it confusing but it really does work. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cem14 at cornell.edu Fri Sep 15 15:06:50 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Systems available Message-ID: <39C2815A.A7548D48@cornell.edu> Well, my current job will be over next December and I will have to move elsewhere. Unfortunately, I won't be able to take all of my stuff with me, so I have to get rid of things. I'll offer a few things on the list first, then try to sell it on eBay. Other things go straight to eBay as I don't think that there is any interest for them here. So, here's a summary (and before I forget, location is Ithaca, New York; some stuff is at home and other stuff is at the Electrical and Computer Engineering School at Cornell). Only partial description are included; if you want to know more particulars about something please send me personal email to cem14@cornell.edu . So here's the list: - (1) microvax II in BA123 case, 14MB RAM, KA 630-A.V1.3, M7555, M7546, RQDX3 (apparently wiped). I had planned to play with this system, but never found a SCSI interface, I have no tape drive for it, and I could not figure out rapidly enough how to load the OS from the network (it does have a DELQA card). The case is missing one of the side covers (but the card cage is intact). The rubber ring on the wheels of the case is disintegrating. Goes through self test; when you type "boot dua0" it answers "?42 NO SUCH FILE, DUA0". I also have a maxtor XT4380 and a card that is a licensed copy of the Webster WQESD which might be handy for this system. I really want this system to go to a good home. - (1) vaxstation 2000 with 6MB RAM (I believe). I'm keeping another. - (1) Decstation 5000/125 - (1) Decstation 5000/133 Note: these decstations come with one HD bracket each, one of them has a 425MB HD with netBSD 1.4.1 . I think they both have 16MB RAM, but I'm not sure. I can install netBSD 1.4.2 if you want. - (2) Decstation 5000/33 (maxine) with 400MB HD's, 16MB RAM, one of the nicer framebuffers and corresponding monitor, keyboard and mouse. Currently with Ultrix 4.2, I think. Or was it 4.4? Anyway, since Ultrix is not transferable, the buyer should erase the hard drives. NetBSD runs in them, but the nice framebuffer is not supported (yet). - (1) Decstation 2100. This machine worked non-stop as an ftp server for nearly five years. - (4) Storage Expansion Units for above; two have the same box as the Decstation 2100, another one is in the same style of a Vaxstation 4000/60 (which I also have, but I'm keeping :-) . The last one is in the same style as the box for a Vaxstation 2000. - Lots of ULTRIX documentation for above. - (2) Sun IPC's with working NVRAM, and (2) more for parts. - (3) Sparcstation 1's and 2's, some working, some non working, one or two systems should come out of all the parts... - Lots of SunOS 4.1.3/4 docs - Many HP9000/300 systems, including a 433s with 33MHz 68040, 370, 350, 340 and 320 systems, as well as HPIB hard drives, tape drives, tapes, memory, storage expansio enclosures and other stuff that goes with them. I'm keeping a 380 system with SCSI and a 25MHz 68040. Wish I could keep the 433, but it is too big. - (4) Racks for the HP9000/300 series. If you think that the BA123 case is nice, you should see these... - (3) HP9000/720's in working condition. I can install HPUX 10.20 for verification purposes if anyone is interested. - HP9000/236 system with monitor and storage expansion box. The only system that actually has an "any" key in the keyboard :-) . No software or OS, though. - HP 1000 E-series. It breaks my heart to part with this; it is the oldest system I have and I really wanted to bring it back to life. Believed to be working, but I don't have enough expertise to test it. (Frank: I have the list of ROMS somewhere; I'll post it later). Some cables for the serial cards are included. An HPIB HD came with this machine, but it seems to require service. - Exabyte 8200 with enclosure. ... more things to come. Most things are available for a small price; others, for the cost of shipping + 20%, since I'm interested in finding a good home for them. Would anybody like to pick up the microvax II? Regards, - -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14@cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 15 15:22:02 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C1B239.C06EDE9E@gorge.net> from "Jim Davis" at Sep 14, 2000 10:23:05 PM Message-ID: <200009152022.NAA22672@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Wumpus, easy game. create a 2D room matrix, initialize with nothing ( > empty room ) > Drop a wumpus in a randomly picked room. Choose a room, Not the wumpus > room!, for the player Wumpus in the classic sense is an easy game. However, the version that OMSI had in the early 80's included at least two special rooms where you could do other stuff. Think of a cross between rogue and wumpus maybe is the best way to explain it. IIRC, there was a library and a chemist (can't for the life of me remember what the other rooms were for. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 15 15:25:03 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <39C1C751.820D3A50@gorge.net> from "Jim Davis" at Sep 14, 2000 11:53:05 PM Message-ID: <200009152025.NAA23093@shell1.aracnet.com> I kind of doubt it, the Tek 4010 wasn't colour was it? The game I'm thinking of was actually colour as well as having graphics (which were actually very good for the time). Zane > Most likely a Tek 4010, If it was the RSTS version I'm thinking of. > It was such a minimalist game, it could run on anything. > Sounds like a good contest. The smallest "hunt the wumpus" game. > Teco would probably win. > JimD. > BTW: Jim Willing, Get back you to tomorrow. Too much to write tonight. > Jim Davis. > > Aaron Nabil wrote: > > > > On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > What I would really love to find is a Graphical version of "Hunt the Wumpus" > > > like they had. That was a really simple game, but really cool. > > > > What did it run on? > > > > -- > > Aaron Nabil > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 15 15:30:16 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 15, 2000 12:09:09 PM Message-ID: <200009152030.NAA23614@shell1.aracnet.com> R. D. Davis wrote: > Of course, as I've said many times before, if you want to play the ultimate > text-only adventure game, play VAX/VMS - if you win, you get to play UNIX, > if you lose, you get stuck with some random Microsoft OS and an evil elf > appears out of nowhere, steals all your gold and suddenly the magic word, > XYZZY, no longer works. Now, what do you want to do? Heh, heh... I like that, but you've got it backwards. You start by playing UNIX, and if you win you get to play OpenVMS! Zane From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 15 15:43:46 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! In-Reply-To: <39C27BA8.259A2C50@home.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Neil Cherry wrote: > Now comes the questions, I don't know the commands for CPM does anyone know > of a good intro to ccp? I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. In the mean > I've backed up the roms and I'm about to investigate upgrading to ZsDOS > (or something similar). I'm hoping the ATR8000 will be able to access the > Atari 800 drives, that way I can hook it up to my Linux box and it can act > as a large floppy drive. I know it confusing but it really does work. Nope, the way it works is that the Atari 800 is actually a dumb terminal to the ATR8000. In fact, you can plug just about anything into the ATR-8000 and use it as your CP/M "host". The ATR-8000 has it's own disk drive ports. It can't use the Atari disk drives (without some serious modifications). Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ncherry at home.net Fri Sep 15 17:14:08 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! References: Message-ID: <39C29F30.9D74A824@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Neil Cherry wrote: > > > Now comes the questions, I don't know the commands for CPM does anyone know > > of a good intro to ccp? I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. In the mean > > I've backed up the roms and I'm about to investigate upgrading to ZsDOS > > (or something similar). I'm hoping the ATR8000 will be able to access the > > Atari 800 drives, that way I can hook it up to my Linux box and it can act > > as a large floppy drive. I know it confusing but it really does work. > > Nope, the way it works is that the Atari 800 is actually a dumb terminal > to the ATR8000. In fact, you can plug just about anything into the > ATR-8000 and use it as your CP/M "host". The ATR-8000 has it's own disk > drive ports. It can't use the Atari disk drives (without some serious > modifications). Well at least you didn't say it's not possible. I'm still happy to have it as it's linked to my Atari collection and it's CP/M which I've been looking for for a while. I'm going to at least attempt to add an IDE interface (ala The Epson QX-10 example) I figure it should be possible. I do know I can run the Atari into the Linux box (SIO2PC). The really cool thing was that when I opened the ATR8000 up it had a Z80, CTC and WD27xx chip (or 17xx chip), and a lot of TTL. I can build another with a Zilog S18x chip and have integrated serial, parallel and CTC. Yes I know I'm nuts but I love it when the old and new cause the lines to blur! BTW, I wish I could be at the VCF show, but it's a bit far for a quick bike ride. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From vcf at siconic.com Fri Sep 15 16:26:59 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Various Hardware and Software to Give Away (fwd) Message-ID: This person has some stuff to give away. Please contact her directly. Reply-To: ctoy@com21.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:07:46 -0700 From: Cindy Toy To: donate@vintage.org, ctoy@com21.com Subject: Various Hardware and Software to Donate Hi, I have been involved with the computer industry since I purchased my first IBM PC with Expansion unit at ComputerLand in 1981. A few years ago, I gave that units away to a friend. However, I have a fully loaded (by 1985 standards) Compaq lugable computer which still works. In addition, I have two printers. One Okidata Microline 93 dot matrix printer and one Brother HR25 impact printer. Various software titles and peripherals some in its original box. Where can I donate these? or should I just trash it? Regards, Cindy Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 17:35:46 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: am9519a Message-ID: <005e01c01f66$beefdd90$960d9a8d@ajp166> From: Daniel T. Burrows >That is not what I meant. ;) reach out... and pull someones leg. >It amazes me how you and several others on this >list can come up with so much good info at the drop of a hat. I'm acient, been there, done some too and alzhimers hasn't struck yet. Soooo that give me the fastest access, my memory. That and I remember parts and their numbers better than names. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 17:47:20 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! Message-ID: <007d01c01f67$b1c368c0$960d9a8d@ajp166> From: Neil Cherry >Now comes the questions, I don't know the commands for CPM does anyone know >of a good intro to ccp? I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. In the mean Yes DOS on a PC, it's nearly as useful as CP/M. CCP, native commands: DIR, REN, ERA, SAVE, TYPE, USER Transient programs: PIP, STAT, ED, ASM, LOAD, DDT, DUMP, SUBMIT Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 17:51:52 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Pentium life extermination Message-ID: <007e01c01f67$b2c129b0$960d9a8d@ajp166> From: Shawn T. Rutledge >> (they apparently own the justice department already, since they're more of a >> monopoly than microsoft), each new company = more money = more crap by intel > >No they aren't. AMD keeps becoming a better competitor; remember it >wasn't that long ago that they only had cheaper but inferior clones, they >didn't have processors which actually performed better than Intel's, >even at the high end. But now they do. And there is also Transmeta. I'd also agree at one point you had Intel, AMD, Cyrix and some I forgot. Monoply no, some better than others sure. Also there are whole market segments where intel does not own more than a small peice of it at all. Allison From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Sep 15 17:51:42 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: VAX 8900 booter References: <00a301c01eb5$b09f2ef0$310b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39C2A7FD.16107449@arrl.net> Thanks. I don't have one of those, I'll check into whether its still in the cabinet. Nick ajp166 wrote: > I believe it used a pro350 or 380 with a special interface board set > as a system console. Pros are PDP-11 FYI. > > Allison > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Oliviero > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 8:18 PM > Subject: VAX 8900 booter > > >Anyone know what boot device was installed in this ? > >I know that earlier Vaxen used PDP11s. A quick search > >of the net yielded little information about this model. > > > >I've got a line on one about to be dismantled and want > >to find out if theres anything in it worth salvaging. Don't > >have access to it, its 1000 miles away. But I have a friend > >there willing to scout it for me. Thanks. > > > > Nick > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Sep 15 18:04:50 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! In-Reply-To: <39C27BA8.259A2C50@home.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Neil Cherry wrote: > Now comes the questions, I don't know the commands for CPM does anyone know > of a good intro to ccp? There are only a few internal commands. Since MS-DOS was based directly on CP/M, the commands are similar. There are plenty of folk here who will step forward and let you know if I got any of them wrong. All others are programs that you can find with DIR. Even copying a file! (PIP NEWFILE = OLDFILE) The internal commands: (what won't show in a DIR): DIR ERASE REN (Rename a file: REN NEWNAME = OLDNAME) TYPE USER (Switch to different user number, which is a little similar to partitioning a drive in MS-DOS) > I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. For user level, there were some books by Rodney Zaks. Dr. Dobbs once had an article "CP/M command Summary". I'll bring a xerox of it to VCF. For programming info, try "CP/M Systems Programming" by Larry Hughes. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 18:35:47 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: VAX 8900 booter Message-ID: <009101c01f6e$006bc3e0$960d9a8d@ajp166> From: Nick Oliviero >Thanks. I don't have one of those, I'll check into whether its >still in the cabinet. > >Nick If it is let me know... All the ones I'd seen were out side the big box on a desk with a tube, keyboard and printer. There was a cable from the back of the Pro to the vax, not too fat but unique to that useage. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 18:44:50 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! Message-ID: <009701c01f6e$f300bf70$960d9a8d@ajp166> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >> I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. >For user level, there were some books by Rodney Zaks. >Dr. Dobbs once had an article "CP/M command Summary". I'll bring a xerox >of it to VCF. >For programming info, try "CP/M Systems Programming" by Larry Hughes. For programming I recommend two MUST HAVE books. DRI the CP/M 2.2 native books, you can find copies on the net I'm sure. Hard copy is not hard to find either. It was also republished by Morrow, Compupro and Kaypro to name a few so not seeing DRI on the cover is not unusual. The Programmers CP/M Hand Book by Andy Johnston-Laird What DRI forgot he reminds us of or corrects. Also hit the deltasoft site as having sources for CCP, BDOS and all is not a bad thing either. Allison From nabil at SpiritOne.com Fri Sep 15 18:42:35 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: <200009152025.NAA23093@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I kind of doubt it, the Tek 4010 wasn't colour was it? The game I'm > thinking of was actually colour as well as having graphics (which were > actually very good for the time). They used to have a lot of Ohio Scientific "Challenger" series hardware, could it have been one of those? -- Aaron Nabil From nabil at SpiritOne.com Fri Sep 15 19:00:36 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: <000913204236.2020167a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > . . . > Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal. > Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couple > of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker - > oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know. > I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, you > *get out*. Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man > switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump. This is almost certainly not a dead-man switch in any sense. Aaron Nabil From rdd at smart.net Fri Sep 15 19:18:42 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > How many Pentiums will it take to exterminate life as we know it? That depends upon whether or not Algore is elected president. If he's elected, we'll probably have limits placed on the amount of energy that we use, including how much electricity we use. This will have the effect of a sharp reduction in the usage of the Internet by the average citizen, thus makine the country safer for other totalitarian politicians, paving the way for the Hillary Monster to get into the White House. Oh heck, if she does get elected, that alone may exterminate civilization if people have to look at that ugly face on TV and in the newspapers enough. Of course, that won't stop the rest of the world from producting and using pentiums, but it will slightly lengthen the time it takes for them to do more damage... however, Intel, wherever it's headquarters end up, may self destruct first as a result of it's own chips, so, do we really have to worry about this? ;-) On a more serious note, what we do have to be concerned with is the possibility of new disk drives eventually becoming scarce, or extremely expensive for individuals to purchase when they stop producing PCs, etc. as we know them, and begin producing more and more network appliances, with all of the software, including OS software, coming from the so-called ASPs (application service providers). Yes, I know what you're thinking. Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc. probably won't stoop to this level, but, do they count enough for manufacturers to still keep producing hardware for them if Microsoft, and even manufacturers of commercial UNICES, etc. begin taking that approach and stop selling software that runs directly on someone's PC via local storage rather than doing it the ASP way and charging them a monthly amount to use the OS and software, and file-space, on remote systems located elsewhere via the 'net? Oh, yeah, and if Algore gets elected, and electricity use is rationed, and those of us here in the states can't get enough gasoline or natural gas to power a generator, what good will our collections of power-hungry real computers over here do us, other than sitting there beckoning to us to hack on them? -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From rdd at smart.net Fri Sep 15 19:31:53 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: VAXen My Chilren (was: Halon...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > I personally attribute Pentiums as Creating life as I know it. Without > the advent of cheap computers, I wouldn't be able to own a VAX 11/750. Speaking of halon and VAXen, how many here are familiar with the humorous short story named "VAXen My Children"? For those who aren't familiar with it, there's a copy somewhere on my web site, or you can just FTP the file vaxen-my-children.gz (5.994 kb) from: perqlogic.com in /pub/rdd/pdp/humor Enjoy! P.S. - the separate computer-humor archive is also accessible via my web page for those who aren't familiar with it... dozens and dozens of ASCII files of comuter humor going back the the earliest days of the 'net. > Of course, the VAX puts out way more heat for less work, so I'm doing > more to hasten the heat death of the universe than a room full of > Pentiums. > > Everyone needs a hobby.... ROFL! :-) -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 15 19:44:18 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: [OT] waste heat (was Re: Halon dumps: a data point) In-Reply-To: (vaxman@uswest.net) References: Message-ID: <20000916004418.29337.qmail@brouhaha.com> > How much power is required to heat the ocean by 1 degree C? At our > current (exponentially increasing) rate of consumption of energy, > how long will it take to heat the ocean? The total water supply of the Earth is approximately 1.36x10^21 litres. Our current rate of consumption of energy is NOT exponentially increasing. In 1997 (the most recent year for which I have information handy), the total energy consumption was 376.8 "Quads" of energy. This is 376.8 quadrillion BTU (376.8x10^15). Assuming all of the energy was used to heat the total water supply, this would raise its temperature by 0.000070 degrees C. Some not-entirely-trivial fraction of the 376.8 quads came directly from solar energy, or indirectly (in the short term), as from wind power. This energy would have been converted to heat even if we did not put it to use, thus it doesn't contribute to global warming. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 15 19:45:18 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point In-Reply-To: (cisin@xenosoft.com) References: Message-ID: <20000916004518.29374.qmail@brouhaha.com> Fred Cisin asks: > How many Pentiums will it take to exterminate life as we know it? One, if used (im)properly. Details left to the imagination. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 15 19:47:41 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:29 2005 Subject: DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Nabil" at Sep 15, 2000 04:42:35 PM Message-ID: <200009160047.RAA26520@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > I kind of doubt it, the Tek 4010 wasn't colour was it? The game I'm > > thinking of was actually colour as well as having graphics (which were > > actually very good for the time). > > They used to have a lot of Ohio Scientific "Challenger" series hardware, > could it have been one of those? > > -- > Aaron Nabil > I wish I knew. I've been trying to remember as much about it as I can. As I recall it had the following characteristics: -Colour Graphics (and very good quality for time, I think 4 or 16 colour) -At least two "special" caves/locations that had stuff in them -Sort of looped instead of going in a geometric pattern like normal Wumpus -I don't think it had a real keyboard, instead you had buttons you pushed for direction and a couple other things Zane From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Sep 15 19:48:13 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) In-Reply-To: <200009152030.NAA23614@shell1.aracnet.com> (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: <200009152030.NAA23614@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20000916004813.29454.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Heh, heh... I like that, but you've got it backwards. You start by playing > UNIX, and if you win you get to play OpenVMS! No, you've BOTH got it wrong. You start with VMS. If you quit playing and switch to Unix, *then* you win. :-) From MTPro at aol.com Fri Sep 15 19:50:06 2000 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: IBM disk drives Message-ID: Hello, could anyone help this person out with some information or leads? Please reply to her directly. Thanks, David Greelish Publisher Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com >From lorri1961@yahoo.com - I've been given an assignment to research and compare the differences in the IBM 350, 1301 and 3350 disk drives. I've been searching most of the moring and haven't come up with very much at all. I've checked the IBM site and find mostly current hardware. I've search several other sites and find only brief references to the devices. Would you happen to have any leads that would help me find the Platter diameter, rotation speed, capacity in MB and data tranfer rates of these devices. I'm not asking for answeres, only for possible leads to the information. Thank you for your help, Lorri From transit at lerctr.org Fri Sep 15 19:50:56 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: > > > 53 41 4E 54 41 4E 53 > > S A N T A N S Santa? Or Satan? From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 20:04:07 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Halon dumps: a data point Message-ID: <000f01c01f7a$06718cf0$2b0e9a8d@ajp166> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Halon dumps: a data point >That depends upon whether or not Algore is elected president. If he's The alternates scare me more. >I know what you're thinking. Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc. probably >won't stoop to this level, but, do they count enough for manufacturers >to still keep producing hardware for them if Microsoft, and even >manufacturers of commercial UNICES, etc. begin taking that approach And crazies like me will be running PX-8s with solidstate disks made from all that huge and very cheap ram out there. >and electricity use is rationed, and those of us here in the states >can't get enough gasoline or natural gas to power a generator, what >good will our collections of power-hungry real computers over here do Any my CPM system running on solar/battery will run fine. Such a dark world your in. Me, I'll keep trucking, I did all those years before the so called great boom I'm still waiting to ride. I made it through the '73 oil embargo, and the three after that too. If you so doom and gloom try this... WE aka BELL bought vaxen that ran off 48V... Always wanted one of those BA213s. the Americas cup racer america carried one of those when PCeees were still useless. Now are there endless hacking possibilities or what? How about a 24x365 system that runs off hydro,or maybe wind... sure it's not going to one of those power nasty 733s but a laptop no problem. What may be missed is the internet is about who has info and what it may cost when it gets hard to find. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 15 20:21:27 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) Message-ID: <003601c01f7c$7d453ff0$2b0e9a8d@ajp166> From: Eric Smith >> Heh, heh... I like that, but you've got it backwards. You start by playing >> UNIX, and if you win you get to play OpenVMS! > >No, you've BOTH got it wrong. > >You start with VMS. If you quit playing and switch to Unix, *then* you >win. :-) Still wrong... you start with PCees and when you outgrow training wheels helmets and knee pads you move on to VMS or Unix. If you loose you go to WinNT hell. Allison From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Sep 15 23:55:45 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000915215313.00b55ba0@pacbell.net> At 06:40 PM 9/15/00 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: >... >There are many versions that run on an equally large number of computers... I have a two versions of wumpus, tailored a bit for the Sol computer, but that shouldn't interfere with the game logic. Both come from a Creative Computing cassette, which the list's Bob Stek sent to me to archive on my Sol web site. Here are direct links to the two programs, which were detokenized using a small perl script: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/stek/strategy/wmpus.bas http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/stek/strategy/wmps2.bas Wumpus II has a few different cave topologies. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jpdavis at gorge.net Sat Sep 16 01:29:36 2000 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: UNIX and games (was: DEC computer labs) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000915215313.00b55ba0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <39C31350.E1B5EFB6@gorge.net> Heh, I was working totally from memory on the wumpus description. Totally fragged, sleepy, and after a few drinks memory. Seems I merged some of the logic of a couple of grid games to create something that is not only unplayable, but has no goal. I looked up wumpus and the memories came rushing back. Oops. Jim Davis. Jim Battle wrote: > > At 06:40 PM 9/15/00 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > >... > >There are many versions that run on an equally large number of computers... > > I have a two versions of wumpus, tailored a bit for the Sol computer, > but that shouldn't interfere with the game logic. Both come from a > Creative Computing cassette, which the list's Bob Stek sent to me > to archive on my Sol web site. Here are direct links to the two programs, > which were detokenized using a small perl script: > > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/stek/strategy/wmpus.bas > > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/stek/strategy/wmps2.bas > > Wumpus II has a few different cave topologies. > > ----- > Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From whdawson at mlynk.com Sat Sep 16 02:45:58 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: TOT: Wumpus, Was:DEC Computer Labs available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c01fb2$27381340$879e72d1@cobweb.net> Mashcii! My mistake. Bill 53 41 4E 54 41 4E 41 ^ ^ -> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: -> -> > On Fri, 15 Sep 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: -> > -> > > 53 41 4E 54 41 4E 53 -> > -> > S A N T A N S -> -> Santa? Or Satan? -> From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Sep 16 02:22:57 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: [OT] waste heat (was Re: Halon dumps: a data point) References: <20000916004418.29337.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <03e601c01fae$f004f080$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Let's not forget the earth/oceans radiate a lot of heat out to space each night. (being hampered a litlle bit by all CO2 gas) Sipke ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:44 AM Subject: [OT] waste heat (was Re: Halon dumps: a data point) > > How much power is required to heat the ocean by 1 degree C? At our > > current (exponentially increasing) rate of consumption of energy, > > how long will it take to heat the ocean? > > The total water supply of the Earth is approximately 1.36x10^21 litres. > > Our current rate of consumption of energy is NOT exponentially > increasing. > > In 1997 (the most recent year for which I have information handy), the > total energy consumption was 376.8 "Quads" of energy. This is > 376.8 quadrillion BTU (376.8x10^15). > > Assuming all of the energy was used to heat the total water supply, > this would raise its temperature by 0.000070 degrees C. > > Some not-entirely-trivial fraction of the 376.8 quads came directly > from solar energy, or indirectly (in the short term), as from wind > power. This energy would have been converted to heat even if we did > not put it to use, thus it doesn't contribute to global warming. > From flo at rdel.co.uk Sat Sep 16 06:33:28 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: HP Series 80 manuals available in UK Message-ID: <39C35A88.8B29EB2A@rdel.co.uk> I've been digging around at work and have found two Series 80 ring binders, but no HP85B. I'll keep one of the binders, but the other is available for the cost of postage in the UK. The binder is labelled "Series 80", and contains the following manuals: "HP-85B Owner's Manual and Programming Guide" "I/O ROM Owner's Manual" "HP82939A Serial Interface Owner's Manual" "HP-IB Interface Owner's Manual" The binder weighs nearly 3.5kg, which makes the cost of posting it ?6.30 at Parcelforce Standard rate. Or you could pick it up from me in Crawley, W.Sussex. Email me off list if you're interested. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Sep 16 08:25:23 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: 48v dc power In-Reply-To: <000f01c01f7a$06718cf0$2b0e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >If you so doom and gloom try this... WE aka BELL bought vaxen >that ran off 48V... Always wanted one of those BA213s. the I have some 48-57 vdc input, otherwise PC normal output power supplies for about $5 each. Ask now if anybody wants some, basically I "think" new units from Computer Products for Newbridge telecomm stuff, but I have eight cases of them and I am getting sick of the space they use. Location socal, shipping extra. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Sep 16 14:06:35 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: 48v dc power In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Mike On 16-Sep-00, you wrote: >> If you so doom and gloom try this... WE aka BELL bought vaxen >> that ran off 48V... Always wanted one of those BA213s. the > > I have some 48-57 vdc input, otherwise PC normal output power supplies for > about $5 each. I'm interested if they are ATX . . . Now I know why my phone calls cost so much. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Sep 16 14:45:46 2000 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <39C3CDEA.B2EB1F3B@tinyworld.co.uk> I spent an half an hour today operating beyond my level of competence, but I seemed to get away with it. I took apart an old VT320 terminal because I wanted to measure the display refresh rate. From disassembling the ROM I know that a frame interrupt is passed to the microcontroller, so I thought I'd open the case, prise apart the tube and the main PCB, connect an oscilloscope probe to the appropriate pin on the microcontroller, power up the terminal and get my timings. I was reassembling the terminal when an odd rattling and whistling sound made me dive for cover. This noise went on for about 15 seconds and then all went quiet. I very nervously approached the terminal and finished snapping the case together. I've not attempted to power it up since. I had noticed that the tube bore a label claiming that it had an implosion protection system, so several questions occur to me. 1. Is it possible that I've somehow blown the tube by shorting one of its connections soon after disconnecting the power? I noticed that there are a number of large capacitors on the circuit board, but I don't know how long they take to discharge. 2. There are two sets of wires going to the CRT. One set of five (six?) goes to a cap on the end of the tube, and another wire (HT?) goes to the side of the tube. I took the cap off the back of the tube, but didn't touch the wire at the side. Can that be safely disconnected? 3. Why would a mere software engineer be doing something this foolhardy? Don't even attempt to answer that. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Sep 16 15:14:38 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Fwd: [Linux-decnet-user] LATD 1.0 released Message-ID: While more or less off-topic I figure I'm not the only one that finds this to be of interest. Or am I the only one around here that actually is using all those DECserver's we've all got laying around? Also considering how easy it is to pickup a DECserver 200MC this might be of interest to people that don't even have any terminal servers at this time. Of course my DECserver 90L+ is currently the only thing I have on the 10Base2 segment of my network :^) Zane >X-From_: linux-decnet-user-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Sat Sep 16 >08:01:31 2000 >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:00:52 +0100 >From: Patrick Caulfield >To: linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net >Mail-Followup-To: linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net >Mime-Version: 1.0 >User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i >Subject: [Linux-decnet-user] LATD 1.0 released >Sender: linux-decnet-user-admin@lists.sourceforge.net >X-BeenThere: linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net >X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 >Precedence: bulk >List-Id: For users of DECnet for Linux > > >This is it, the moment you've all been waiting for... > >latd has reached 1.0. All bugs have been quashed, all features have been >perfected, just download and enjoy ! > >I know I said 0.8 was feature-complete but several weeks of heavy use >convinced >me to add a couple more at the last minute. > >^@ in a reverse-LAT connection will send a BREAK to the terminal server or >host. >Useful for VAX consoles that one, and >You can define a group called "lat" in your /etc/groups file and all >reverse-LAT >ports will then have that as their groups along with 0660 permission so you >don't have to be root to use reverse-LAT any more. > >And there are binaries. Only Intel at the moment but that *may* change. > >Here's the full NEWS page: > > >- Support BREAK character >- Added support for a group (gid) called "lat". If you have one of these > in /etc/groups then users with that group can connect to reverse-LAT > ports with no other privileges >- Added startup script >- Remove "LAT started", "LAT stopped" messages from latcp as they interfere > with the startup script and it's "not the Unix way" >- Added RPM build target >- Added DEB build target >- Forced all node names & service names to be uppercase in latcp >- Split -DOLDSTUFF into two bits: -DUSE_OPENPTY and -DSETLOGIN_HOST. The > second option doesn't work on SuSE 6.4, but does on Debian 2.2 and RedHat > 6.2, the first should be fine on anything later than RedHat 5.2 (libc 2.0 > I think that means) > >BTW: I haven't forgotten dnprogs. There will be a 0.6 release in the middle of >October soon after I return from holiday. For the impatient, it's all in CVS! > >patrick > >_______________________________________________ >Linux-decnet-user mailing list >Linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net >http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/linux-decnet-user > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From frederik at freddym.org Sat Sep 16 15:29:52 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: DEF?A Available - Anyone Message-ID: Hi all, I think FDDI becomes more and more vintage, so I decided to ask here: Does anyone have a spare DEF?A Available? I mean a DEFQA, DEFTA, DEFPA,... If yes, I'll be willing to buy it (if it's not too expensive, of course). Awaiting offers and thanks in advance -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Sep 16 16:06:39 2000 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <39C3CDEA.B2EB1F3B@tinyworld.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000916165210.00a99210@mail.wincom.net> At 08:45 PM 9/16/2000 +0100, you wrote: >I spent an half an hour today operating beyond my level of competence, >but I seemed to get away with it. > >I took apart an old VT320 terminal because I wanted to measure the >display refresh rate. From disassembling the ROM I know that a frame >interrupt is passed to the microcontroller, so I thought I'd open the >case, prise apart the tube and the main PCB, connect an oscilloscope >probe to the appropriate pin on the microcontroller, power up the >terminal and get my timings. > >I was reassembling the terminal when an odd rattling and whistling sound >made me dive for cover. This noise went on for about 15 seconds and then >all went quiet. I very nervously approached the terminal and finished >snapping the case together. I've not attempted to power it up since. > >I had noticed that the tube bore a label claiming that it had an >implosion protection system, so several questions occur to me. > >1. Is it possible that I've somehow blown the tube by shorting one of >its connections soon after disconnecting the power? I noticed that there >are a number of large capacitors on the circuit board, but I don't know >how long they take to discharge. > >2. There are two sets of wires going to the CRT. One set of five (six?) >goes to a cap on the end of the tube, and another wire (HT?) goes to the >side of the tube. I took the cap off the back of the tube, but didn't >touch the wire at the side. Can that be safely disconnected? > >3. Why would a mere software engineer be doing something this foolhardy? >Don't even attempt to answer that. If the tube vacuum is gone you MIGHT see a clear area on the screen where the phosphor is blown off. On the old tubes there was a tip at the end of the neck where it was sealed off, and this is easily broken. Other than that breakage might be caused by incorrect alignment, with the deflection yoke applying a twisting force to the neck. I had one new tube that had been correctly installed and self destructed when warmed up, apparently due to stresses in the glass. The client was not amused. Foolhardy? Don't feel bad. Back in my TV repair days I once had a customer come into the shop carrying a large picture tube by the neck and asking "Do you test tubes?"! Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Check out "The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum" at http://www.skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://www.chasfoxvideo.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 16 16:25:59 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <002601c02024$ce22c2f0$aa0d9a8d@ajp166> From: Paul Williams >I was reassembling the terminal when an odd rattling and whistling sound >made me dive for cover. This noise went on for about 15 seconds and then >all went quiet. I very nervously approached the terminal and finished >snapping the case together. I've not attempted to power it up since. My guess: Sounds like the little tit on the end of the tube (middle of socket) was broken off by rough handling. What you heard was the vacuum becomming unso. The "implosion protection device" is heavy glass and think screen for the case of if there was damage done the tube would not let fly with a field of flying glass possibly doing injury. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 16 15:14:41 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <39C3CDEA.B2EB1F3B@tinyworld.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Sep 16, 0 08:45:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000916/368d9e92/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 16 16:32:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000916165210.00a99210@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Sep 16, 0 05:06:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1216 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000916/d433f488/attachment.ksh From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Sep 16 19:32:17 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Wumpus (was: DEC Computer Labs available) In-Reply-To: <200009152025.NAA23093@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <39C1C751.820D3A50@gorge.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000916172911.00a89f00@agora.rdrop.com> At 01:25 PM 9/15/00, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >I kind of doubt it, the Tek 4010 wasn't colour was it? The game I'm >thinking of was actually colour as well as having graphics (which were >actually very good for the time). Definitely not a Tek 4010 then, (he says with some level of confidence since he has one sitting in front of him) as it is a vector storage display terminal like most of the 40xx line. Unless of course you count green as being color. (the only thing it knows how to draw) -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Sep 16 21:11:37 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 09:14:41PM +0100 References: <39C3CDEA.B2EB1F3B@tinyworld.co.uk> Message-ID: <20000916211137.A11810@mrbill.net> On Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 09:14:41PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > However, CRTs can be mechanically fragile. I had an old (but perfect-picture) IBM 8514 monitor in my garage "shop", and during one rather energetic argument with my SO over "too much computer equipment", she picked up the monitor and THREW it at the ground (which was nothing more than thin carpet over concrete). Plastic bezel/case cracked a bit. CRT stayed intact. I'm still debating whether I should power it up and see if it still works. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 17 00:53:08 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Wumpus (was: DEC Computer Labs available) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000916172911.00a89f00@agora.rdrop.com> References: <200009152025.NAA23093@shell1.aracnet.com> <39C1C751.820D3A50@gorge.net> Message-ID: >At 01:25 PM 9/15/00, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >>I kind of doubt it, the Tek 4010 wasn't colour was it? The game I'm >>thinking of was actually colour as well as having graphics (which were >>actually very good for the time). > >Definitely not a Tek 4010 then, (he says with some level of confidence >since he has one sitting in front of him) as it is a vector storage display >terminal like most of the 40xx line. Unless of course you count green as >being color. (the only thing it knows how to draw) Jim, Yeh, it was bitmapped. I don't suppose you remember anything like that? It was on the upper floor in the middle. It was the newer section that they added in like the late 70's or early 80's. In the early to mid 80's it was there and a few feet away was that tube based computer they had in a static display, and they also had a computer a few feet away running something like "ELIZA" (think that's the name of the psuedo shrink). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Sep 17 03:27:38 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <20000916211137.A11810@mrbill.net> (message from Bill Bradford on Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:11:37 -0500) References: <39C3CDEA.B2EB1F3B@tinyworld.co.uk> <20000916211137.A11810@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <20000917082738.16612.qmail@brouhaha.com> Bill Bradford wrote: > I had an old (but perfect-picture) IBM 8514 monitor in my garage "shop", > and during one rather energetic argument with my SO over "too much > computer equipment", she picked up the monitor and THREW it at the > ground (which was nothing more than thin carpet over concrete). > > Plastic bezel/case cracked a bit. CRT stayed intact. I'm still debating > whether I should power it up and see if it still works. 8-) I have a Sony KV25DXR 25" TV, a close relative of the famous KV25XBR. Two moves ago I dropped it four feet onto asphalt. The plastic case broke in many places, and a hissing noise came from it. I expected that meant that the neck of the tube cracked. Later I powered it up, and was surprised to discover that it works fine. From flo at rdel.co.uk Sun Sep 17 06:10:06 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: HP Series 80 manuals available in UK References: <39C35A88.8B29EB2A@rdel.co.uk> Message-ID: <39C4A68E.F3E8ACFC@rdel.co.uk> These manuals have now been claimed, thank you. From flo at rdel.co.uk Sun Sep 17 06:36:52 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? References: Message-ID: <39C4ACD4.95CDCF97@rdel.co.uk> Thanks for the explanations. The cap at the back of the tube has a small circuit board on it, so I imagine that I accidently applied some pressure at an angle while reassembling the terminal. What made me more nervous than the prospect of personal injury was the fact that I was doing this in work yesterday, in a lab surrounded by some very expensive equipment. My second mistake of the weekend is confessing this on a mailing list. Phooey. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 17 12:44:52 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <39C4ACD4.95CDCF97@rdel.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Sep 17, 0 12:36:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 602 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000917/55500acd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 17 12:48:28 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <20000916211137.A11810@mrbill.net> from "Bill Bradford" at Sep 16, 0 09:11:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1039 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000917/c146eaab/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Sep 17 18:49:04 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Nice Haul! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000917184904.3dff6210@mailhost.intellistar.net> Yesterday Bob R. and I went out to visit an old CPM'er that I'd heard about. He was glad to see us and GAVE us all of his old CPM stuff. Two beautiful MicroMint SB180 systems (one with hard drive :-), a Televideo 970 terminal, a Steve Ciarcia Serial EPROMer, a case with an external 8" floppy drive and a CompatiCard to operate it with, a Copy II PC card, a huge pile of CPM software and a fair sized stack of manuals. Does anyone have the setup instructions for a CompatiCard I? I'm also looking for instructions for the Serial EPROMer. I think it may have been published in the Feb. 1985 issue of Byte magazine. Joe From forslund at tbaytel3.tbaytel.net Sun Sep 17 14:36:33 2000 From: forslund at tbaytel3.tbaytel.net (The Forslunds) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Member? Message-ID: <200009172336.TAA40870@tbaytel.net> Hello, I am wondering how i become a member of this "group". I am 52 years of age, and interested in microcomputer hardware and software from the 1970's and early 1980's. I built a digital group z80 computer back in 1977... Thanks - Bob Forslund From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 17 19:01:55 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: File Conversion Help Message-ID: <00f401c02103$a90e9ea0$24701fd1@default> I have someone looking for help in converting TRS80 model files written using a wordprocessor named allwrite. Any one know of a way to move these files to a new format for use today ? Thanks John Keys From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Sep 17 20:08:20 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Nice Haul! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000917184904.3dff6210@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000917200820.36f75fc2@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:49 PM 9/17/00 -0500, I wrote: > > Does anyone have the setup instructions for a CompatiCard I? I'm also >looking for instructions for the Serial EPROMer. I think it may have been >published in the Feb. 1985 issue of Byte magazine. Correction. I just figured out that this is the "Intelligent EPROM programmer" that was in the Oct. 1986 issue and not the simple programmer that was in the 1985 issue. If anyone has a copy of the 1986 article, I would appreciate a copy. Joe From r.stek at snet.net Sun Sep 17 19:28:10 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Compaticard Manual Message-ID: I've got one for a Compaticard II which would do - IIRC the major difference is an additional connector. Do you just need jumper settings or would you like a copy - it's pretty short. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From rcini at optonline.net Sun Sep 17 19:34:36 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: AIM65 Available Message-ID: Hello, all: Some months back, I had a deal on several AIM65 systems. Well, my contact sent me a message indicating that he had one more available. It's in a custom-molded case with power supply. The price is $100 + S/H from New Jersey. If anyone's interested, let me know. Rich [ Rich Cini [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ <================ reply separator =================> From rcini at optonline.net Sun Sep 17 19:43:43 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Acquired - IBM portable Message-ID: Hello, all: A friend of my sister-in-law gave me the original IBM portable (well, lugable) Model 5155 and RGB monitor. It's the dual drive model. There's a 37-pin DB connector on the back. External floppy?? I have to say, this equipment is in the best condition of any classic item I have ever acquired. Not a scratch, dent or cabinet fade. No dust either...anywhere. I know that the owner was anal retentive, but oh boy. I haven't tried yet, but it was just taken out of service after many years of use. Rich [ Rich Cini [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ <================ reply separator =================> From ncherry at home.net Sun Sep 17 20:24:05 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Nice Haul! References: <3.0.1.16.20000917200820.36f75fc2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <39C56EB5.DBA8C34E@home.net> Joe wrote: > > At 06:49 PM 9/17/00 -0500, I wrote: > > > > Does anyone have the setup instructions for a CompatiCard I? I'm also > >looking for instructions for the Serial EPROMer. I think it may have been > >published in the Feb. 1985 issue of Byte magazine. > > Correction. I just figured out that this is the "Intelligent EPROM > programmer" that was in the Oct. 1986 issue and not the simple programmer > that was in the 1985 issue. If anyone has a copy of the 1986 article, I > would appreciate a copy. > > Joe If no one else has it I can dig it up, I have most of the early issues (I know I have that one). BTW, the SB180 makes a nice lunch box computer. I saw Steve at the Trenton State Computer Festival (now the Trenton Computer Festival but it ain't in Trenton) with one and have since dreamed of owning one. But what would be an appropriate lunch box for such a computer? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From vaxman at uswest.net Sun Sep 17 20:37:51 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Member? In-Reply-To: <200009172336.TAA40870@tbaytel.net> Message-ID: Hi Bob, Welcome. Since you were able to send your original message to the list, I assume you are now subscribed. If not, send an email to: majordomo@classiccmp.org with the message: subscribe in the body. Other than that, if you have a question about 10 year or more old hardware, software, or computer systems, feel free to ask it. If you want to answer someone else's question, again, feel free. Spam is discouraged, but low key buying/selling/trading is encouraged. If you see something you like, jump in with an 'I'm interested' email, stuff goes fast, good stuff goes faster :) Other than that, have fun. clint PS I'm not in any way associated with the list owner or list management, but welcome anyway On Sun, 17 Sep 2000, The Forslunds wrote: > Hello, > I am wondering how i become a member of this "group". > I am 52 years of age, and interested in microcomputer hardware and > software from the 1970's and early 1980's. I built a digital group > z80 computer back in 1977... > Thanks - Bob Forslund > > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Sep 17 21:00:49 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Acquired - IBM portable Message-ID: <49.ee3066.26f6d151@aol.com> In a message dated 9/17/00 8:43:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rcini@optonline.net writes: > > A friend of my sister-in-law gave me the original IBM portable (well, > lugable) Model 5155 and RGB monitor. It's the dual drive model. There's a > 37-pin DB connector on the back. External floppy?? yup 256k, and external drive connector. are you saying you got an external display? the 5155 had a 5inch CGA mono CGA display of course. i scored this weekend. got a mac 512k complete in box. even got the cassette tape and apple stickers that came with it. might go back to get the boxed imagewriter and floppy drive. DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! -> www.nothingtodo.org From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Sep 17 22:10:17 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: AIM65 Available Message-ID: <20000918031017.744.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Richard A. Cini, Jr." wrote: > Hello, all: > > Some months back, I had a deal on several AIM65 systems. Well, my contact > sent me a message indicating that he had one more available. It's in a > custom-molded case with power supply. The price is $100 + S/H from New > Jersey. I got one of these... really nice. I'm very happy with it. (just an un-paid testimonial... ;-) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Sep 18 05:53:06 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen Message-ID: <00Sep18.115308bst.46095@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Well, not only was the screen dead but the analogue board too. The part #s for the screens in the Plus, SE and Classic were the same, except the classic was a slightly different sub-variant (E instead of D). I installed the Classic CRT and got nothing, nix, nada, so I figured if the Classic was mostly dead it was OK to assume the screen was too. I only thought about the analogue board when I'd installed the Plus screen, so I swapped that too and hey presto - working SE. I then put the Classic screen in the Plus and that works too, so there's now a completely dead Classic available (well, the mobo might be OK) as well as the bones of an SE! There's no point in keeping the bust CRTs since they're beyond repair. a > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 14 September 2000 18:56 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Mac SE screen > > > > > > > I know that the CRT in a Mac+ is a pretty standard 9" mono > > > CRT, and that there's nothing odd about the pin > configuration or operating > > > > > voltages. I suspect the SE's CRT is similar, but I've > never had the > > > chance to pull one of those machines to bits. > > > > I'll do it then, and compare the numbers and boards etc, and check > > apple-history to make sure the resolutions were the same, > which I think they > > were. > > The resolution shouldn't matter for a monochrome CRT (there are no > phosphor dots/stripes on such a screen). The resolution is really > determined by the driver electronics, although the yoke is > likely to be > different as well (different scan rates -> different yoke > inducatance, etc) > > > > > > Incidentally, if you had 2 dead SEs and broke one of the > CRTs, what > > > happened to the other CRT? It's not common for them to fail > > [...] > > > The good old british postal service 'happened' to the other > CRT. They > > Ah... That explains it :-( > > -tony > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Sep 18 06:01:06 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: PDP-11 *free* in the UK Message-ID: <00Sep18.120107bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Dammit - I haven't got the space! > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Bradford [mailto:mrbill@mrbill.net] > Sent: 15 September 2000 12:36 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: PDP-11 *free* in the UK > > > An email I received @ pdp11.org: > - - - - > From engdesk@intelfaxdev.co.uk Fri Sep 15 06:16:09 2000 > > From: "Andrew Bailey" > > To: > > Subject: We have a PDP11 that needs a good home > > Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:08:38 +0100 > > > > We have three large, heavy pieces of computer equipment > marked PDP11/44, TS05 > +and RL02. If there is anybody in the UK who wants them, > please drop us a line. > +We will even give you a hand getting them into the van. > > - - - - > > If anyone's interested in that area, please get in touch with > Mr. Bailey. > > -- > Bill Bradford > mrbill@mrbill.net > Austin, TX > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Sep 18 06:06:46 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: VAX 8900 booter Message-ID: <00Sep18.120649bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> It was a separate box mounted vertically in its own table. It should be obvious whether it's still there or not. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick Oliviero [mailto:oliv555@arrl.net] > Sent: 16 September 2000 00:15 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VAX 8900 booter > > > Thanks. I don't have one of those, I'll check into whether its > still in the cabinet. > > Nick > > ajp166 wrote: > > > I believe it used a pro350 or 380 with a special interface board set > > as a system console. Pros are PDP-11 FYI. > > > > Allison > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nick Oliviero > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Thursday, September 14, 2000 8:18 PM > > Subject: VAX 8900 booter > > > > >Anyone know what boot device was installed in this ? > > >I know that earlier Vaxen used PDP11s. A quick search > > >of the net yielded little information about this model. > > > > > >I've got a line on one about to be dismantled and want > > >to find out if theres anything in it worth salvaging. Don't > > >have access to it, its 1000 miles away. But I have a friend > > >there willing to scout it for me. Thanks. > > > > > > Nick > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Sep 18 09:38:35 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen In-Reply-To: <00Sep18.115308bst.46095@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000918093835.48376366@mailhost.intellistar.net> Adrian, Too bad you're in the UK. I have a nice Classic and a nice SE that are looking for homes. Joe At 11:53 AM 9/18/00 +0100, you wrote: >Well, not only was the screen dead but the analogue board too. The part #s >for the screens in the Plus, SE and Classic were the same, except the >classic was a slightly different sub-variant (E instead of D). I installed >the Classic CRT and got nothing, nix, nada, so I figured if the Classic was >mostly dead it was OK to assume the screen was too. I only thought about the >analogue board when I'd installed the Plus screen, so I swapped that too and >hey presto - working SE. I then put the Classic screen in the Plus and that >works too, so there's now a completely dead Classic available (well, the >mobo might be OK) as well as the bones of an SE! There's no point in keeping >the bust CRTs since they're beyond repair. > >a > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] >> Sent: 14 September 2000 18:56 >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: Mac SE screen >> >> >> > >> > > I know that the CRT in a Mac+ is a pretty standard 9" mono >> > > CRT, and that there's nothing odd about the pin >> configuration or operating >> > >> > > voltages. I suspect the SE's CRT is similar, but I've >> never had the >> > > chance to pull one of those machines to bits. >> > >> > I'll do it then, and compare the numbers and boards etc, and check >> > apple-history to make sure the resolutions were the same, >> which I think they >> > were. >> >> The resolution shouldn't matter for a monochrome CRT (there are no >> phosphor dots/stripes on such a screen). The resolution is really >> determined by the driver electronics, although the yoke is >> likely to be >> different as well (different scan rates -> different yoke >> inducatance, etc) >> >> > >> > > Incidentally, if you had 2 dead SEs and broke one of the >> CRTs, what >> > > happened to the other CRT? It's not common for them to fail >> >> [...] >> >> > The good old british postal service 'happened' to the other >> CRT. They >> >> Ah... That explains it :-( >> >> -tony >> > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Sep 18 09:36:27 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Nice Haul! In-Reply-To: <39C56EB5.DBA8C34E@home.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20000917200820.36f75fc2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000918093627.3c57ff24@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:24 PM 9/17/00 -0400, Neil wrote: >Joe wrote: >> >> At 06:49 PM 9/17/00 -0500, I wrote: >> > >> > Does anyone have the setup instructions for a CompatiCard I? I'm also >> >looking for instructions for the Serial EPROMer. I think it may have been >> >published in the Feb. 1985 issue of Byte magazine. >> >> Correction. I just figured out that this is the "Intelligent EPROM >> programmer" that was in the Oct. 1986 issue and not the simple programmer >> that was in the 1985 issue. If anyone has a copy of the 1986 article, I >> would appreciate a copy. >> >> Joe > >If no one else has it I can dig it up, I have most of the early issues (I >know I have that one). I found an archive copy of the instructions but it doesn't include the schematics and drawings so, yes, I'd like to have a copy of the article. Thanks. BTW, the SB180 makes a nice lunch box computer. >I saw Steve at the Trenton State Computer Festival (now the Trenton Computer >Festival but it ain't in Trenton) with one and have since dreamed of owning >one. But what would be an appropriate lunch box for such a computer? These are already in nice steel cases. I'd say just bolt a handle to it and you're all set. :-) FWIW I have some Compaq Portable III computers. They're nice little 286s in a lunchbox size case with a fold down keyboard and gas plasma screen. They also have a couple of ISA card slots in them (if you have the expansion pod). I'm going to install the Compaticard in one and them and that will give me a portable system with an 8" drive. I love these little PIIIs, they're great for uses like this and for EPROM burners and such that need a card slot. Joe > >-- >Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net >http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) >http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) >http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Sep 18 09:47:02 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: For Frank McConnell Mail System Error - Returned Mail Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000918094702.2c6fdf62@mailhost.intellistar.net> Frank, I keep getting this message when I try to send you a message. This has been going on for a couple of weeks. Some messages are getting through but others aren't. Joe >Return-Path: <> >To: rigdonj@intellistar.net >From: Mail Administrator >Reply-To: Mail Administrator >Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:34:56 -0400 > >This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason: > >Your message was not delivered because the Domain Name System >(DNS) for the destination computer is not configured correctly. >The following is a list of reasons why this error message could >have been generated. If you do not understand the explanations >listed here, please contact your system administrator for help. > > - The host does not have any mail exchanger (MX) or > address (A) records in the DNS. > > - The host has valid MX records, but none of the mail > exchangers listed have valid A records. > > - There was a transient error with the DNS that caused > one of the above to appear to be true. > >You may want to try sending your message again to see if the >problem was only temporary. > > DNS for host reanimators.org is mis-configured > >The following recipients did not receive this message: > > > >Please reply to Postmaster@mailhost.intellistar.net >if you feel this message to be in error. >Received: from lizard ([206.105.68.131]) by mailhost.intellistar.net > (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) > ID# 0-41809U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAE1120 > for ; Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:34:54 -0400 >Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.20000918092720.3baf7d48@mailhost.intellistar.net> >X-Sender: rigdonj@mailhost.intellistar.net >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) >Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:27:20 -0500 >To: Frank McConnell >From: Joe >Subject: Re: Nice Haul! >In-Reply-To: <200009180330.UAA24591@daemonweed.reanimators.org> >References: > > <3.0.1.16.20000917184904.3dff6210@mailhost.intellistar.net> > <3.0.1.16.20000917202506.3bef2e9c@mailhost.intellistar.net> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 18 09:04:21 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders Message-ID: <200009181404.HAA09638@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Anyone know of a source of RS-422 (Mac mini-DIN serial) female-female gender benders? I'm toying with teaching the C128 to speak LocalTalk through its ACIA cartridge but I can't seem to find a female RS-422 to DB9 or DB25 connector, so I need some sort of gender bender to hook the LocalTalk box up with. Does anyone sell these? I can find male-male but this isn't too helpful :-) By the way, Fry's sells Mac Crackers. Like so many other things at Fry's, of course, no one there knows they do, but in the Tools section under Torx T15 drivers is an honest-to-goodness 11" T15 MacCracker with magnetic tip. Worked like a charm on the SE/30, and now it has a 1GB hard drive. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- One learns to itch where one can scratch. -- Ernest Bramah ----------------- From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Sep 18 08:56:53 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:30 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <20000917082738.16612.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 17 Sep 2000 08:27:38 -0000 Eric Smith wrote: > Bill Bradford wrote: > > I had an old (but perfect-picture) IBM 8514 monitor in my garage "shop", > > and during one rather energetic argument with my SO over "too much > > computer equipment", she picked up the monitor and THREW it at the > > ground (which was nothing more than thin carpet over concrete). > > > > Plastic bezel/case cracked a bit. CRT stayed intact. I'm still debating > > whether I should power it up and see if it still works. 8-) > > I have a Sony KV25DXR 25" TV, a close relative of the famous KV25XBR. > Two moves ago I dropped it four feet onto asphalt. The plastic case > broke in many places, and a hissing noise came from it. I expected > that meant that the neck of the tube cracked. I picked up a Sony 17-inch monitor that had been returned from a trip on a sonar survey boat as "non-working". Thinking that a 17-inch screen would be nice, I had a look inside. There were big blue glowing sparks inside the glass of the tube neck. Closer examination with the power off revealed that the neck was broken -- wiggling it made a horrible crunchy "broken-glass" noise. The weight of the RGB video amplifiers (supported only by the glass) had snapped the tube. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Sep 18 09:05:25 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Mac SE screen Message-ID: <00Sep18.150526bst.46104@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Ta for that, but I've already got a v.clean classic and the SE will buff up quite nicely when I get the time! a > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > Sent: 18 September 2000 15:04 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Mac SE screen > > > Adrian, > > Too bad you're in the UK. I have a nice Classic and a nice > SE that are > looking for homes. > > Joe > > At 11:53 AM 9/18/00 +0100, you wrote: > >Well, not only was the screen dead but the analogue board > too. The part #s > >for the screens in the Plus, SE and Classic were the same, except the > >classic was a slightly different sub-variant (E instead of > D). I installed > >the Classic CRT and got nothing, nix, nada, so I figured if > the Classic was > >mostly dead it was OK to assume the screen was too. I only > thought about the > >analogue board when I'd installed the Plus screen, so I > swapped that too and > >hey presto - working SE. I then put the Classic screen in > the Plus and that > >works too, so there's now a completely dead Classic > available (well, the > >mobo might be OK) as well as the bones of an SE! There's no > point in keeping > >the bust CRTs since they're beyond repair. > > > >a > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > >> Sent: 14 September 2000 18:56 > >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >> Subject: Re: Mac SE screen > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > I know that the CRT in a Mac+ is a pretty standard 9" mono > >> > > CRT, and that there's nothing odd about the pin > >> configuration or operating > >> > > >> > > voltages. I suspect the SE's CRT is similar, but I've > >> never had the > >> > > chance to pull one of those machines to bits. > >> > > >> > I'll do it then, and compare the numbers and boards etc, > and check > >> > apple-history to make sure the resolutions were the same, > >> which I think they > >> > were. > >> > >> The resolution shouldn't matter for a monochrome CRT (there are no > >> phosphor dots/stripes on such a screen). The resolution is really > >> determined by the driver electronics, although the yoke is > >> likely to be > >> different as well (different scan rates -> different yoke > >> inducatance, etc) > >> > >> > > >> > > Incidentally, if you had 2 dead SEs and broke one of the > >> CRTs, what > >> > > happened to the other CRT? It's not common for them to fail > >> > >> [...] > >> > >> > The good old british postal service 'happened' to the other > >> CRT. They > >> > >> Ah... That explains it :-( > >> > >> -tony > >> > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Sep 18 10:37:08 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders In-Reply-To: <200009181404.HAA09638@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000918103708.271fa4e8@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:04 AM 9/18/00 -0700, Cameron wrote: > >By the way, Fry's sells Mac Crackers. What's that? a big hammmer? :-) Joe From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Sep 18 10:02:16 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders Message-ID: <00Sep18.160217bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Nope, it's a 15" Torx-15 screwdriver that's an absolute must for getting the little blighters apart. There's a couple of other Mac Opening tools too, some of which Tony Duell uses.....can't remember the names..... > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe [mailto:rigdonj@intellistar.net] > Sent: 18 September 2000 15:59 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RS-422 gender benders > > > At 07:04 AM 9/18/00 -0700, Cameron wrote: > > > >By the way, Fry's sells Mac Crackers. > > What's that? a big hammmer? :-) > > Joe > From bills at adrenaline.com Mon Sep 18 10:12:42 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Processor Technology 16KRA Docs? Message-ID: Hi, The Sol I just got came with two 16KRA memory boards. I didn't get any documentation for these boards. One seems to be occupying the address range 4000-7FFF. This board seems to be OK. I can enter values and dump them back out. The other board seems to be addressed from 0 to 3FFF. Without the board in the system, dumps from this address range show all FF. With the board installed, dumps from this address range show values other than FF. Entering values into this address range does not seem to work. The command works, the machine does not hang, but the values displayed by the dump command don't change. There are two, eight bit dip switches on each board. The settings are very different on the two boards. Can anybody help me out here? Thanks, Bill Sudbrink From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Sep 18 11:24:00 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Fwd: [Linux-decnet-user] LATD 1.0 released Message-ID: "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > While more or less off-topic I figure I'm not the only one that finds this > to be of interest. Or am I the only one around here that actually is using > all those DECserver's we've all got laying around? Also considering how > easy it is to pickup a DECserver 200MC this might be of interest to people > that don't even have any terminal servers at this time. First, thanks Zane for sharing that, definitely of interest. Yep, I'm one of those not using any of them I have laying around. In fact was about to tear down some 200/MC's to recycle the aluminum cases and circuit boards. If anybody here wants one, then let me know. I also have the hardware manuals for them. Mike From Mzthompson at aol.com Mon Sep 18 11:23:59 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: DEF?A Available - Anyone Message-ID: <56.c4dfc1.26f79b9f@aol.com> Frederik Meerwaldt wrote: > I think FDDI becomes more and more vintage, so I decided to ask here: > Does anyone have a spare DEF?A Available? I mean a DEFQA, DEFTA, DEFPA,... > If yes, I'll be willing to buy it (if it's not too expensive, of course). > Awaiting offers and thanks in advance There was a posting recent in comp.sys.dec where a guy had a bunch of stuff for sale. Among them: 2 DEFZA-AA TC FDDI interface $10 He said that they were gone shortly after the posting, but at least they are available. Mike From swperk at earthlink.net Mon Sep 18 11:54:58 2000 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Free to good home: Mac IIfx CPU + several NuBus cards References: Message-ID: <39C648E2.F8E998D9@earthlink.net> Hello all, Once again, it's spring^H^H^H^H^Hfall cleaning time, and I have a Mac IIfx CPU I no longer have space for. It's in excellent condition, has dual superfloppy drives, 32 MB RAM, a Radius video card, an Ethernet card, and an unidentified NuBus card from Apple (I think it was for the external 5-1/4" floppy drive, but I do not have the drive itself). I will also throw in another NuBus Ethernet card and a NuBus token ring card (FWIW). All I ask is that the buyer pay for the actual shipping charges, plus another $5 or so for the packing materials (I'm running low on this stuff). Or, if you're in the San Diego area, just come and pick it up! Regards, Stan Perkins Please note my new e-mail address: swperk@earthlink.net From swperk at earthlink.net Mon Sep 18 12:08:07 2000 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: OT?: NeXTstation color with *all* accessories--what's it worth? References: Message-ID: <39C64BF7.22C51506@earthlink.net> Hello again, I'm not sure if it's quite ten years old, but if it's not, it's close! What with my quest to free up space for more "treasures," it's time to sell my NeXTstation color system. I have no idea what something like this is now worth, so any and all advice is appreciated! It's a NeXT station color (non-turbo), with 32 MB RAM, 1 GB HD, sound box, keyboard, mouse, a 19" Trinitron monitor, NeXT color printer, NeXT laser printer, NeXT CD-ROM, HP DAT drive, an NXFax 14.4 fax/data modem, NeXTstep 3.3, a *bunch* of diskettes and CD-ROMs, all of the cables, and all kinds of books and manuals. There's a lot of software installed, it's in excellent condition, and it boots up just fine. Of course, if anyone on the list is interested in it, perhaps we can arrange something! Regards, Stan Perkins Please note my new e-mail address: swperk@earthlink.net From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 12:08:58 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Processor Technology 16KRA Docs? References: Message-ID: <001901c02193$23667440$0500c0a8@winbook> Hi, Bill! If you go carefully, starting with noting the current dip-switch settings, I'd recommend you do the following. (1) set the dip-switches for the non-functional (suspect) board so they match the functional one. Install the suspect board with its new dipswitch settings and perform the same operations on it that you used with the seemingly functional one. If the behavior matches what you got with the seemingly functional board, you're home free. The hardware is probably working OK. You need to figure out your dip switch settings from their prior settings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. Fear not! (2) attempt to isolate 4K blocks on the board's map, i.e. fill 0x4000 through 0x7FFF with zeroes, then read 0x4000-0x4FFF. Are the bytes all ZERO? If so repeat for 0x5000-0x5FFF, etc for each 4KB block. If one or more, including all, of these blocks fails to read all zeroes, fill 0x4000 through 0x7FFF with 0xFF. Read each block, making note of the results. If one of the 4K blocks fails to clear a single bit, that's cleared in another block, there's probably a failed IC or possibly a broken or intermittent enable or write command strobe in that RAM block. Make note and proceed. If one of the 4K blocks produces 0xFF but failed to produce zeroes, you've likely got a defective decoder or an intermittent or open write command, output enable command, or chip select to that block. If one bit is consistently wrong, it may be the memory device itself, but the stobe lines should be checked nevertheless. Memory IC"s are not much more likely to be at fault than logic devices or PCB taces. (3) now get out your meter and verify that all the memory IC's in a given bank have continuity on their address, select, write, and enable lines. If that seems correct, verify that the DQ or D and Q (if they have separate I/O) of all the memory IC's on a common data data bit have continuity as well. It's unlikely they'll be buffered separately. If these strobes are hooked up similarly to each device in a bank, and the data bits are hooked up similarly for each data bit in all four banks, then you should look for the TTL buffer to which they're connected. On boards of this age, these are likely to be 7436x's where x can be 5-8. it's most likely they'll all be the same, so I'd look for '367's using some combination of the groups of two and four bits that are enabled by each device enable. The S-100 has separate data in and data out busses, so there will be two sets of buffers. These buffers can be inverting or non-inverting, just so the same type is used on both busses. (4) now get out your oscilloscope and set up to examine coincidence of pWR* ( that signal was used pretty early on, though it had several names.) and the write strobe on your memory devices. If you see no activity on the write line when executing an infinite loop that writes to only one location in one of the banks of memory on the board. Find the right one by 'scoping the write lines on each row of 8 memory IC's until you have the one that goes LOW when the pWR* is low. Since you're in an infinite loop doing only one write to memory and a subsequent read of the same location, you should have no trouble finding the strobe if it's there. If you can't find it on the suspect board, you've probably found the problem, but now you should substitute the "working" board to ensure you've found the right signal. After ensuring you know where the select, output enable, and write command strobes are (which you can verify from a diagram of the device pinout) you should be able to verify that each of the strobes in question shows up on the working board as it should. Now go back to the suspect board and check each memory device to see which ones get the appropriate signals and which don't. Once you've established that the strobes appear where they should, look for the data to see that the correct data arrives and departs as it should. If that fails, you've probably found a defective memory IC. (do you see a pattern here?) If the strobes arrive at the correct time and the data arrives at the correct time during writes, (check setup and hold times, but those shouldn't be an issue if the board design works at all) and the correct data doesn't arrive at the CPU, then either the data-in bus buffers are defective, in which case the board won't work at all, or the select/enable logic is defective. If these parts are socketed, you can learn quite a bit by swapping them with parts from the board that works. Once you've got two boards that work all you have to do is find out how the switches work. As stated earlier, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to establish that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sudbrink To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 9:12 AM Subject: Processor Technology 16KRA Docs? > Hi, > > The Sol I just got came with two 16KRA memory boards. > I didn't get any documentation for these boards. > > One seems to be occupying the address range 4000-7FFF. > This board seems to be OK. I can enter values and dump > them back out. > > The other board seems to be addressed from 0 to 3FFF. > Without the board in the system, dumps from this address > range show all FF. With the board installed, dumps from > this address range show values other than FF. Entering > values into this address range does not seem to work. > The command works, the machine does not hang, but the > values displayed by the dump command don't change. > > There are two, eight bit dip switches on each board. > The settings are very different on the two boards. > > Can anybody help me out here? > > Thanks, > Bill Sudbrink > > From MTPro at aol.com Mon Sep 18 12:25:00 2000 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: OT?: NeXTstation color with *all* accessories--what's it worth? Message-ID: In a message dated 9/18/00 1:14:52 PM, swperk@earthlink.net writes: << I have no idea what something like this is now worth, so any and all advice is appreciated! >> Hi Stan, well, of course eBay is always a gauge of what classic computers are actually selling for (even if some "collectors" on this list are negative about it). Take a look at what they are selling for there. Here is a helpful link to take you right there - http://search-completed.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebaycomplete/results.html?dest= &cobrandpartner=x&ht=&maxRecordsPerPage=50&query=%28next+cube%2Cnextstation%2C next+computer%2Cnextstep%2Copenstep%29&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&SortOrder=%5Bd %5D After you've reviewed what they've been selling for over the last thirty days, click on the "Search Active Items" link near "Sort by" area to see what they are selling for now. I have many links already setup for eBay to search for specific computer types. See - http://www.classiccomputing.com/auctions.html Best, David Greelish Publisher Classic Computing Press www.classiccomputing.com From rickb at bensene.com Mon Sep 18 12:38:39 2000 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Processor Technology 16KRA Docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bill wrote: > > The Sol I just got came with two 16KRA memory boards. > I didn't get any documentation for these boards. > > There are two, eight bit dip switches on each board. > The settings are very different on the two boards. > Probably a fairly worthless data point, but I seem to recall that the dip switches, along with setting the address range that the board appeared at, also had the ability to 'write protect' memory...either by block or for the whole board (can't remember for sure which). This would be used to allow a program to be loaded into memory, then write-protected to allow test/debug with less worry about an errant program wiping things out. Of course, the program would have to be written such that read/write memory was used for variables. In any case, it could simply be that the board that you are having trouble with is set up to be write-protected. I can't help with any specifics as to the switch settings...I just remember this vaguely from my days of tinkering with SOLs. A company that I did some consulting work for many, many moons ago used a bunch of SOLs in institutional pharmacies as systems for keeping track of nursing home prescriptions. I ended up writing software for one of the retail pharmacies to use the SOL as a utility pay station recordkeeping system. Ahhh...those definitely were the good old days. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From chris.muller at mullermedia.com Mon Sep 18 12:33:51 2000 From: chris.muller at mullermedia.com (Chris Muller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: any Wang fans out there? In-Reply-To: <39C648E2.F8E998D9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000101c02196$9d987800$6e04100a@infohouse.infohouse.com> I've got a bunch of old Wang VS stuff that I inherited from customers. If there's anyone out there who wants it, just come on by and take a look. Regards, Chris Muller Muller Media Conversions http://www.mullermedia.com 212-344-0474 32 Broadway, NYC From frederik at freddym.org Mon Sep 18 12:49:14 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: DEF?A Available - Anyone In-Reply-To: <56.c4dfc1.26f79b9f@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi! > > I think FDDI becomes more and more vintage, so I decided to ask here: > > > Does anyone have a spare DEF?A Available? I mean a DEFQA, DEFTA, DEFPA,... > > If yes, I'll be willing to buy it (if it's not too expensive, of course). > > > Awaiting offers and thanks in advance > > There was a posting recent in comp.sys.dec where a guy had a bunch of > stuff for sale. Among them: > 2 DEFZA-AA TC FDDI interface $10 Cool!!! I buy one of them!!! Can you please give me the Address of this person? Thanks! -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 18 12:29:08 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Acquired - IBM portable In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at Sep 17, 0 08:43:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000918/713165b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 18 13:08:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000918103708.271fa4e8@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Sep 18, 0 10:37:08 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000918/99c7e336/attachment.ksh From harrison at timharrison.com Mon Sep 18 14:28:34 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: OT?: NeXTstation color with *all* accessories--what's it worth? References: Message-ID: <39C66CE2.4997ADBA@timharrison.com> MTPro@aol.com wrote: > Hi Stan, well, of course eBay is always a gauge of what classic computers Since MacOS X has become a popular conversation piece, NeXT prices have skyrocketed. When I bought my NeXTstation Color Turbo 33 (w/ 21" monitor), I got it complete for USD$350 (including shipping). I've seen them go for much higher, but their actual worth is probably somewhere around there. As for market demand, it's most likely still high. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From Mike-Noel at GCI.net Mon Sep 18 15:25:27 2000 From: Mike-Noel at GCI.net (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Processor Technology 16KRA Docs? References: Message-ID: <39C67A37.8CCDC90F@GCI.net> Here's some info Bob Stek sent me last year on a similar problem... ---------------------- perhaps this will help: a15 a14 a13 a12 a15 a14 a13 a12 sw1-8 o o o o o o o o sw1-1 page 1 page 2 sw2-8 o o o o o o o o sw2-1 page 3 page 4 starting address a15 a14 a13 a12 x=open, off, down c=closed, on, up 0000 x x x x 1000 x x x c 2000 x x c x 3000 x x c c 4000 x c x x 5000 x c x c 6000 x c c x 7000 x c c c 8000 c x x x 9000 c x x c A000 c x c x B000 c x c c C000 c c x x D000 c c x c E000 c c c x F000 c c c c From swperk at earthlink.net Mon Sep 18 15:41:57 2000 From: swperk at earthlink.net (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: OT?: NeXTstation color with *all* accessories--what's it worth? References: <39C66CE2.4997ADBA@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <39C67E15.7EC241F3@earthlink.net> Hello all, David and Tim, thanks for all of the info. I will probably list the system on eBay next weekend, but I'd rather sell it to someone on this list. I'll be happy to consider all reasonable offers. Regards, Stan Tim Harrison wrote: > > MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Stan, well, of course eBay is always a gauge of what classic computers > > Since MacOS X has become a popular conversation piece, NeXT prices have > skyrocketed. When I bought my NeXTstation Color Turbo 33 (w/ 21" > monitor), I got it complete for USD$350 (including shipping). I've seen > them go for much higher, but their actual worth is probably somewhere > around there. As for market demand, it's most likely still high. > > -- > > Tim Harrison > Network Engineer > harrison@timharrison.com > http://www.networklevel.com/ From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Sep 18 16:19:30 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: AIM65 Available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20000918211930.17791.qmail@brouhaha.com> > If anyone's interested, let me know. I'll be surprised if I'm not too late, but yet, I'm interested. Cheers, Eric From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Sep 18 16:26:39 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: DEC Manuals available Message-ID: <39C6888F.661FE24A@arrl.net> Trying to downsize my DEC library so I'm offering up some vintage manuals, no longer needed here. Hopefully these can be of use to other list members. Price is $5 each which includes shipping (USA). Most are in VG cond. Some are well used, not so pretty. All are complete, not torn. Contact me off list if any are of interest. Leftovers will be ebay'd. -DLV11-J User Guide (M-8043) EK-DLV1J-UG-001 -HSC50 Installation Manual EK-HSC50-IN-001 -HSC50 Technical Summary EJ-25786-45 -LA120 User Guide EK-LA120-UG-003 -LA210 kit: (all 3 for $5) > Installation Guide EK-LA210-IN-002 > User Guide EK-LA210-UG-002 > Programmer Ref EK-LA210-RM-001 -LG01 Text Printer Installation/Operators Manual Ek-OLG01-IN-003 -MSV11-P User Guide (M-8067) EK-MSV0P-UG-001 -MXV11-B User Guide (M-7195) EK-MXV1B-UG-001 -RM80 Disk Drive User Guide EK-ORM80-UG-003 -EMULEX DM02 Controller Tech Manual (MSCP Compat.) DEC Handbooks: -Digital Logic Handbook 1975-76 -Memories and Peripherals 1978-79 -PDP11/04/05/10/35/40/45 Processor Handbook -PDP11 Peripherals Handbook 1976 the following are still in shrink-wrap: -RA-82 Disk Drive User Guide EK-ORA82-UG-001 -VMS Installation and Operations: MicroVAX, VAXStation -I,-II,-IIGPX AA-LB32A-TE -VMS Installation and Operations: MicroVAX, Vaxstation 2000 AA-LB34A-TE -VMS Installation and Operations: Vaxstation 8000 AA-LB33A-TE From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Mon Sep 18 22:57:46 2000 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Demolish this Wang or not Message-ID: <20000918213812.27B8336B53@pandora.worldonline.nl> I pulled a Wang sytem unit from the scrapheap. Type probably 6560. 10 Mb harddisk, 5 1/4 " floppy. I have no keyboard, and no monitor. Internally a number of plug in cards in a strange format. I have a Wang system logbook for it in dutch. Is this unit of any interest or should I just return it to the scarpheap? The unit is in Arnhem, the Netherlands. Wim Hofman From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 18 16:48:09 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Sep 18, 0 07:08:07 pm" Message-ID: <200009182148.OAA08674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > On this list it seems to be the extra-long TX15 Torx driver that you need > to undo the top 2 screws (the ones inside the handle) of a classic-Mac. *And* there's some Torx screws on the inside, at least in this SE/30, that also need the extra-long shaft. > I've seen another tool called a Mac Cracker (or a Mac Case Cracker). This > was a special pair of pliers with wide (about 4" wide) thin, flat blades > in place of the jaws. You took out all the screws and put this tool in > the crack between the front case and the back shell. Squeezing the > handles caused the blades to force the case apart. > I've never bothered with one. In my experience, after removing all the > screws (not forgetting the one under the battery cover), put the machine > face down and press on the battery and on the connectors. Once the case > starts to move it'll come off easily. Yeah, this I've seen also. It was totally unnecessary. Any reasonable amount of care and the case will slide right off with a minimum of effort. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A dean is to faculty as a hydrant is to a dog. -- Alfred Kahn -------------- From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 18 17:04:57 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: Hello all. This is Kevin Stewart, formerly a2k@one.net. That address died a long time ago and I never got around to resubscribing until now. Anyway, I am currently looking for an unbuilt computer kit or plans. S100 bus would be cool, but I don't really care about that or the processor - z80, 6800, 6502 - I iust want a project. Parts should be easy to find and relatively cheap. I would prefer a serial interface for I/O. Thanks, Kevin From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 17:26:20 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders References: <200009182148.OAA08674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <004501c021bf$794af6c0$0500c0a8@winbook> It's been at least 10 years since my last look at RS422, bit IIRC, there were two connectors involved in that spec. There was a DC37 of one geneder or another, and there was, I believe, a DA15 as well, which was the one with the differential high-rate signals on it. Does that sound reasonable to anyone. I know most applications use(d) a subset of this standard but referred to it as RS-422 only because they used the 5volt differential signalling-copmpatible drivers, e.g. 26LS32/33, MC3486/87, etc. Does this ring a bell with anybody? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Cameron Kaiser To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 3:48 PM Subject: Re: RS-422 gender benders > > On this list it seems to be the extra-long TX15 Torx driver that you need > > to undo the top 2 screws (the ones inside the handle) of a classic-Mac. > > *And* there's some Torx screws on the inside, at least in this SE/30, that > also need the extra-long shaft. > > > I've seen another tool called a Mac Cracker (or a Mac Case Cracker). This > > was a special pair of pliers with wide (about 4" wide) thin, flat blades > > in place of the jaws. You took out all the screws and put this tool in > > the crack between the front case and the back shell. Squeezing the > > handles caused the blades to force the case apart. > > I've never bothered with one. In my experience, after removing all the > > screws (not forgetting the one under the battery cover), put the machine > > face down and press on the battery and on the connectors. Once the case > > starts to move it'll come off easily. > > Yeah, this I've seen also. It was totally unnecessary. Any reasonable amount > of care and the case will slide right off with a minimum of effort. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- A dean is to faculty as a hydrant is to a dog. -- Alfred Kahn -------------- > > From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 17:29:15 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders References: <200009182148.OAA08674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <004901c021bf$e1120aa0$0500c0a8@winbook> The old IBM 8512 and 8513 VGA monitors needed that extra-long extra-skinny T-15 for their upper two screws as well. This was something the mfgs did just to make those of us who wanted to fix'em rather than toss-em suffer a bit. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Cameron Kaiser To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 3:48 PM Subject: Re: RS-422 gender benders > > On this list it seems to be the extra-long TX15 Torx driver that you need > > to undo the top 2 screws (the ones inside the handle) of a classic-Mac. > > *And* there's some Torx screws on the inside, at least in this SE/30, that > also need the extra-long shaft. > > > I've seen another tool called a Mac Cracker (or a Mac Case Cracker). This > > was a special pair of pliers with wide (about 4" wide) thin, flat blades > > in place of the jaws. You took out all the screws and put this tool in > > the crack between the front case and the back shell. Squeezing the > > handles caused the blades to force the case apart. > > I've never bothered with one. In my experience, after removing all the > > screws (not forgetting the one under the battery cover), put the machine > > face down and press on the battery and on the connectors. Once the case > > starts to move it'll come off easily. > > Yeah, this I've seen also. It was totally unnecessary. Any reasonable amount > of care and the case will slide right off with a minimum of effort. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- A dean is to faculty as a hydrant is to a dog. -- Alfred Kahn -------------- > > From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 17:35:54 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans References: Message-ID: <004f01c021c0$cf0c4860$0500c0a8@winbook> When you say you want a kit, would plans do, or do you want to buy a "kit" with all the trappings? Do you want to have software for it or do you want to build your own from scratch? I have some schematics that might be of interest. If you want to do S-100, I'd STRONGLY recommend sticking with 8085 or Z-80. I can send you a plan for an S-100 with some board-resident hardware, i.e. an attached HDD and FDD. It's got some developmental gaps, though, like it needs a bunch of drivers reworked. For a 6502, which you can run up to 14MHz but which, for reasons relating to the serial I/O I recommend you run at 12.288 MHz, I also have a schematic you might consider. There's some resident firmware available, in the form of a resident debugger, though I'd move the I/O to elsewhere in the memory map than where it is in this application. Do you want to use programmable logic (have you the tools to use it?) or do you want off-the-shelf logic, which is getting to be less and less off-the-shelf with each passing day? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Stewart To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 4:04 PM Subject: Computer Kit / Plans > > Hello all. This is Kevin Stewart, formerly a2k@one.net. That address died a > long time ago and I never got around to resubscribing until now. > > Anyway, I am currently looking for an unbuilt computer kit or plans. S100 > bus would be cool, but I don't really care about that or the processor - > z80, 6800, 6502 - I iust want a project. Parts should be easy to find and > relatively cheap. I would prefer a serial interface for I/O. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Sep 18 17:54:28 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: DEC Manuals available References: <39C6888F.661FE24A@arrl.net> Message-ID: <39C69D24.DF92E686@arrl.net> Thanks for all the responses. All of the manuals have now been claimed. Nick Nick Oliviero wrote: > Trying to downsize my DEC library so I'm offering > up some vintage manuals, no longer needed here. > Hopefully these can be of use to other list members. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Sep 18 17:55:27 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders In-Reply-To: <004501c021bf$794af6c0$0500c0a8@winbook> (richard@idcomm.com) References: <200009182148.OAA08674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <004501c021bf$794af6c0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <20000918225527.19619.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > It's been at least 10 years since my last look at RS422, bit IIRC, there > were two connectors involved in that spec. There was a DC37 of one geneder > or another, and there was, I believe, a DA15 as well, which was the one with > the differential high-rate signals on it. Does that sound reasonable to > anyone. I know most applications use(d) a subset of this standard but > referred to it as RS-422 only because they used the 5volt differential > signalling-copmpatible drivers, e.g. 26LS32/33, MC3486/87, etc. I think you might be talking about RS-449. AFAIK, RS-422 is ONLY an electrical specification, and does not recommend a connector. IIRC, RS-449 specifies a connector and the use of RS-422 electrical interfaces. And then there's RS-485, which is multi-drop (party line) RS-422. No connector spec for this one either. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon Sep 18 18:08:03 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: <000918190803.20201a3b@trailing-edge.com> * Anyway, I am currently looking for an unbuilt computer kit or plans. S100 * bus would be cool, but I don't really care about that or the processor - * z80, 6800, 6502 - I iust want a project. Parts should be easy to find and * relatively cheap. I would prefer a serial interface for I/O. If expandability isn't a prime goal (and this may be the case seeing, as you don't care about the bus) you might try playing with one of the microcontrollers on the market. A prime example would be one of the low-end PIC's, which are *very* available and *very* cheap. Do a web search for "16C84" or "16F84" for one of the most accessible and fun chips available. If you're worried about the PIC series being "non-classic", don't :-). The PIC architecture has been around for at least 20 years in many variations, and it's one of the few available "Harvard Architecture" chips (i.e. memory space separate from data space, a truly "classic" architecture) I can think of in current production. Tim. From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 18 18:19:14 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans References: <004f01c021c0$cf0c4860$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: Well, at first I was thinking I'd look for a kit... but now I'm thinking more of starting from scratch. I'd love to look at the plans you have for the S100. I have both Z80 and 8085 chips in my collection (at one point a friend gave me a Sears parts drawer filled with ICs... there are tons of obscure little parts in there, including several processors). I plan on learning Z80 and 6502 at some point in my lifetime... so I'd like to take a look at both schematics. I don't have an (E)EPROM programmer at this time. Thanks, Kevin From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 18 18:51:41 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans oops Message-ID: My first day back on the list and I already make a public reply ;) Sorry, that should have been a private message. Kevin From r.stek at snet.net Mon Sep 18 19:16:32 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Processor Technology 16KRA Docs? Message-ID: Bill - If Mike Noel's re-hash of the switch settings aren't sufficient, email me off list and I'll make you a xerox copy of the full manual (80-90 pages, theory of operation, schematic, timing diagrams, etc.) for .05/page plus postage. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Sep 18 19:42:53 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders In-Reply-To: <20000918225527.19619.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Sep 18, 0 10:55:27 pm" Message-ID: <200009190042.RAA10286@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > > It's been at least 10 years since my last look at RS422, bit IIRC, there > > were two connectors involved in that spec. There was a DC37 of one geneder > > or another, and there was, I believe, a DA15 as well, which was the one with > > the differential high-rate signals on it. Does that sound reasonable to > > anyone. I know most applications use(d) a subset of this standard but > > referred to it as RS-422 only because they used the 5volt differential > > signalling-copmpatible drivers, e.g. 26LS32/33, MC3486/87, etc. > > I think you might be talking about RS-449. AFAIK, RS-422 is ONLY an > electrical specification, and does not recommend a connector. IIRC, > RS-449 specifies a connector and the use of RS-422 electrical interfaces. > > And then there's RS-485, which is multi-drop (party line) RS-422. No > connector spec for this one either. AAAAAAA! Okay, okay, okay, Mac mini-DIN female-female! (lest I precipitate a standards discussion ... :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The steady state of disks is full. -- Ken Thompson ------------------------- From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 20:28:45 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans References: <000918190803.20201a3b@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <000e01c021d8$f5056d40$0500c0a8@winbook> Though I don't personally like the PIC's, they do represent the ultimate in accesibility. You can get them from Digikey, in the event you don't have a better or more convenient source, and Radio Shack.com has them in various Kit forms, though I wouldn't go on record as advising anyone to buy anything from RS, even RS.com, which I cautiously patronize from time to time, since they're local. The Harvard architecture, however, is not particularly rare, however, being at the heart of nearly every DSP that there is. Moreover, the 8048 and 8051 and all their scions have separate code and data spaces. If I were starting today with microcontrollers of any sort, I'd be inclined to take on the SCENIX SX line. They're small, incredibly fast (100 MIPS) and available in 18, and 28-pin 0.300"-wide dip packaging, and some rather more difficult-to-use 44 and 52-pin packages for their larger part. The architecture is very much like the PIC, though it has somewhat more of a call stack. What appeals to me about this part over the much more varied PIC series from Microchip, is that it can emulate devices I can't buy any more, and, I suspect, can provide functions from an interrupt driven bus interface in the style of an 8744 or 8742, that will synchronize with a master processor's bus, perhaps insterting its own wait-states automatically, and, aside from the time it actually spends processing bus activity, can provide functions that I never could buy. It would be quite easy to build an 8253 look-alike that worked conveniently and was 4 bytes deep rather than a mere two. That would allow for some very precise timing of quite lengthy intervals. There are lots of things it might be persuaded to do with a little coaxing from some cleverly written code. Another one that's getting a lot of press, and hobbyist attention is the "Rabbit." A web search is the best way to find out about it, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 5:08 PM Subject: RE: Computer Kit / Plans > * Anyway, I am currently looking for an unbuilt computer kit or plans. S100 > * bus would be cool, but I don't really care about that or the processor - > * z80, 6800, 6502 - I iust want a project. Parts should be easy to find and > * relatively cheap. I would prefer a serial interface for I/O. > > If expandability isn't a prime goal (and this may be the case seeing, as > you don't care about the bus) you might try playing with one of the > microcontrollers on the market. A prime example would be one of the low-end > PIC's, which are *very* available and *very* cheap. Do a web search for > "16C84" or "16F84" for one of the most accessible and fun chips available. > > If you're worried about the PIC series being "non-classic", don't :-). The PIC > architecture has been around for at least 20 years in many variations, and it's > one of the few available "Harvard Architecture" chips (i.e. memory space > separate from data space, a truly "classic" architecture) I can think of in > current production. > > Tim. > > From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 20:37:40 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans References: <004f01c021c0$cf0c4860$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <001801c021da$336f6760$0500c0a8@winbook> Well, with no eprom programmer, I'd say that might be a good place to start. If you get a set of programming spec's for the EPROMs, EPROM-based MPU's, and EEPROMs, not to mention FLASH memory devices, that interest you, perhaps the thing to do would be to build a programmer using a PIC, SCENIX SX, or whatever you choose. The easy way to interface such a device is thorugh the parallel port, which has several operating modes, of which I like the EPP the best, but you can make up your own mind. Keep in mind, that you're building a tool that you're going to use again and again. Keeping it flexible might be a real priority. Most programmable parts are VERY easy to program by comparison with parts dating back to the '80's, and the 2716, in my opinion, was of all of them the easiest. There are few MCU's easier to program than the 8748, though you'll have a tough time finding them outside a scrapyard. Frankly, once you get past the notion of fiddling with voltages high enough to damage some of your circuitry if it gets where it's not wanted, you'll find this sort of thing quite straightforward and even fun. One advantage to using an SX, is that it's so fast you can use it to perform pretty accurate timing of the controls on a field programmable part. Whats more, if the code burden to waste time or synchronize with an external event is awkward, you can switch the clock speed with a programmable timer, though you need to take into consideration what that does to the internals, e.g. timer/watchdog, etc. Let me know what schematic format(s) you can read and I'll see if I can generate one of more of them. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Stewart To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 5:19 PM Subject: Re: Computer Kit / Plans > Well, at first I was thinking I'd look for a kit... but now I'm thinking > more of starting from scratch. I'd love to look at the plans you have for > the S100. I have both Z80 and 8085 chips in my collection (at one point a > friend gave me a Sears parts drawer filled with ICs... there are tons of > obscure little parts in there, including several processors). > > I plan on learning Z80 and 6502 at some point in my lifetime... so I'd like > to take a look at both schematics. > > I don't have an (E)EPROM programmer at this time. > > Thanks, > Kevin > > From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 18 20:39:38 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: RS-422 gender benders References: <200009190042.RAA10286@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002401c021da$79d28200$0500c0a8@winbook> Nope! No need for a lengthy standards tirade. Eric's right . . . I was actually thinking of the RS449 rather than 422. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Cameron Kaiser To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 6:42 PM Subject: Re: RS-422 gender benders > > "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > > > It's been at least 10 years since my last look at RS422, bit IIRC, there > > > were two connectors involved in that spec. There was a DC37 of one geneder > > > or another, and there was, I believe, a DA15 as well, which was the one with > > > the differential high-rate signals on it. Does that sound reasonable to > > > anyone. I know most applications use(d) a subset of this standard but > > > referred to it as RS-422 only because they used the 5volt differential > > > signalling-copmpatible drivers, e.g. 26LS32/33, MC3486/87, etc. > > > > I think you might be talking about RS-449. AFAIK, RS-422 is ONLY an > > electrical specification, and does not recommend a connector. IIRC, > > RS-449 specifies a connector and the use of RS-422 electrical interfaces. > > > > And then there's RS-485, which is multi-drop (party line) RS-422. No > > connector spec for this one either. > > AAAAAAA! Okay, okay, okay, Mac mini-DIN female-female! (lest I precipitate > a standards discussion ... :-) > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- The steady state of disks is full. -- Ken Thompson ------------------------- > > From at258 at osfn.org Mon Sep 18 20:45:43 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Demolish this Wang or not In-Reply-To: <20000918213812.27B8336B53@pandora.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: Look for a 4230/4230A or 2246 Wang terminal. On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, W.B.(Wim) Hofman wrote: > I pulled a Wang sytem unit from the scrapheap. > Type probably 6560. 10 Mb harddisk, 5 1/4 " floppy. I have no keyboard, and > no monitor. Internally a number of plug in cards in a strange format. I > have a Wang system logbook for it in dutch. > Is this unit of any interest or should I just return it to the scarpheap? > The unit is in Arnhem, the Netherlands. > > Wim Hofman > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Sep 18 21:27:41 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: <008e01c021e2$ee6ed3e0$f70b9a8d@ajp166> From: Kevin Stewart >Anyway, I am currently looking for an unbuilt computer kit or plans. S100 >bus would be cool, but I don't really care about that or the processor - >z80, 6800, 6502 - I iust want a project. Parts should be easy to find and >relatively cheap. I would prefer a serial interface for I/O. Your dreaming. An unbuilt s100 kits is worth $$$$. However, z80s and all the goodies are readily available are are 6800 and 6502 (JDR Microdevices). Not having a preference is not a good thing I'd say as each cpu is somewhat different and some people do like one over another. Allison From jimdavis at gorge.net Mon Sep 18 23:04:05 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans References: <000918190803.20201a3b@trailing-edge.com> <000e01c021d8$f5056d40$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <39C6E5B5.E42D059E@gorge.net> Don't forget the 4004 and the 4040. Richard Erlacher wrote: > > The Harvard architecture, however, is not particularly rare, however, being > at the heart of nearly every DSP that there is. Moreover, the 8048 and 8051 > and all their scions have separate code and data spaces. > > If I were starting today with microcontrollers of any sort, I'd be inclined > to take on the SCENIX SX line. They're small, incredibly fast (100 MIPS) > and available in 18, and 28-pin 0.300"-wide dip packaging, and some rather > more difficult-to-use 44 and 52-pin packages for their larger part. The > architecture is very much like the PIC, though it has somewhat more of a > call stack. > JimD. From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 19 10:02:51 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! In-Reply-To: <39C27BA8.259A2C50@home.net> Message-ID: <20000919145742.SOST27630.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I have an ATR8000 and an ATR8500. I can help you with your project and can provide docs if you need them. No. The ATR can only access drives connected to it's own controller. Atari drives are only useable when you are running the Atari as a computer. In CP/M, only the standard drives off the card-edge connector are accessible. Remember that you need to 'build' CP/M for your drive types by running the DDSysgen command and following the prompts. Regards, Jeff In <39C27BA8.259A2C50@home.net>, on 09/19/00 at 11:02 AM, Neil Cherry said: >Now comes the questions, I don't know the commands for CPM does anyone >know of a good intro to ccp? I'm hoping to get a book on CP/M soon. In >the mean I've backed up the roms and I'm about to investigate upgrading >to ZsDOS (or something similar). I'm hoping the ATR8000 will be able to >access the Atari 800 drives, that way I can hook it up to my Linux box >and it can act as a large floppy drive. I know it confusing but it really >does work. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 19 10:06:22 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: VAX me, baby! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20000919150034.SRSS27630.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I think Ed Kirby of Computer Parts Barn recently aquired a Vax 9000. This is a big monkey. Ed Kirby of Computer Parts Barn: 16 London Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-274-5963 In , on 09/19/00 at 11:06 AM, "Will Jennings" said: >OK, >I will love anyone forever who can find me a VAX 9000 (model 440 for >preference, nothing like 157 VUPS), or better still, a VAX 10000. Hell, >even a BI system would be nice... >Will J >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 19 10:17:25 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! In-Reply-To: <20000919145742.SOST27630.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > I have an ATR8000 and an ATR8500. I can help you with your project and > can provide docs if you need them. Never heard of the ATR8500. How did it differe from the 8000? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From pat at transarc.ibm.com Tue Sep 19 10:49:58 2000 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans In-Reply-To: <39C6E5B5.E42D059E@gorge.net> Message-ID: As long as we are talking about PICs and the like, what's the general consensus on Atmel? Besides the BASIC Stamp, the Atmel AT90S8515 is the only microcontroller Radio Shack (since we were talking about them...) seems to list in their catalog. I've looked at it - had it in mind to use for a project I was working on. RS advertises it as a "RISC architecture", but it really isn't very RISC-like at all as far as I can tell. Has a bunch of I/O on board. Pinout-compatible with 8051, but (of course) not instruction set compatible, so you can't just replace an 8051 with one of these. --Pat. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Sep 19 11:59:43 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Complete Antic Magazine library now on the Web! (fwd) Message-ID: The Digital Antic Project (http://www.atarimagazines.com) is proud to announce that the full text of every issue of Antic Magazine is now available on the Web. Devoted to the Atari 8-bit and ST computers, Antic magazine published 88 issues from April 1982 through July 1990. This site launched with two issues on July 27, 1996. More than four years later, the project's volunteers uploaded the final issue. The site includes 1,700 articles, 2,400 images, and 1,600 downloadable program files, using more than 100 MB of disk space. More than 30 volunteers have contributed time to the project. Although the Digital Antic Project has reached an important milestone, the effort is far from over. The volunteers have already begun digitizing two more magazines published by Antic Publishing: STart, which focuses on Atari ST computers; and Antic Amiga Plus, which focuses on the Amiga platform. (People interested in donating time or magazines to the cause are encouraged to send e-mail to savetz@northcoast.com.) --Kevin Savetz Curator of the Digital Antic Project -- Kevin Savetz Curator of the Digital Antic Project -- Classic Atari magazines on the Web http://www.atarimagazines.com Moderator of news:comp.sys.atari.announce -- Atari computer news From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Sep 19 14:37:06 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000919143627.03394280@pc> http://partners.nytimes.com/2000/09/18/technology/18BASI.html - John From tim.mann at compaq.com Tue Sep 19 18:48:40 2000 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000919143627.03394280@pc> Message-ID: <200009192348.QAA15848@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> The tone of that article really annoys me. The idea seems to be to blur the distinction between sharing your own work (obviously laudable) and sharing someone else's work without their permission (obviously unethical, and folks generally knew that even in 1975). It also tries to oversimplify all the complex debates that are going on right now into a simple black and white question of whether or not there should be copyrights. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From rdd at smart.net Tue Sep 19 20:22:55 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <200009192348.QAA15848@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 tim.mann@compaq.com wrote: > The tone of that article really annoys me. The idea seems to be to blur > the distinction between sharing your own work (obviously laudable) and > sharing someone else's work without their permission (obviously unethical, > and folks generally knew that even in 1975). It also tries to oversimplify Wasn't there also an issue about Bill Gates & Friends having acquired that code they based it on unethically as well? I seem to recall having read something about that numerous places over a decade ago, or has that little bit of history been rewritten? > all the complex debates that are going on right now into a simple black > and white question of whether or not there should be copyrights. It sounds like communism is creeping onward - when the right to intellectual property is questioned, something's very wrong. Is this not sending the signal that it's ok to be "rewarded" for being an hourly "worker" and get paid for routine or physical work - for example, but it's wrong to be rewarded for thinking. After all, is not thinking, and questioning, bad for big government, certain big businesses, and whatever else reeks of totalitarianism, etc.? Do away with copyrights, stick anyone who's a little rebellious on Ritalin and puppy downers (those who watched the old, original, Saturday Night Live TV show in the 80's will understand this), and classify those who disagree with the government as mentally ill and lock them away, like they did (do?) in Soviet Russia, and divvy up everyone's property, intellectual or physical and make it available to all. Ok, did I spoil the surprise for anyone about what's in store for the citizens of the U.S. if Al Gore is successfully maneuvered into office by the mass media and pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.? -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Sep 19 20:47:37 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help Message-ID: <000b01c022a4$c21f8380$16721fd1@default> Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks John Keys From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Sep 19 21:19:25 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:31 2005 Subject: More DEC manuals avail Message-ID: <39C81EAD.AC8827C9@arrl.net> Well I waded back thru the library, here are a few more manuals that I can part with. Please contact me off-list if any are of interest. Again these are complete, not torn. Prices as noted, shipping INCLUDED. Handbooks: $5 -Digital Logic Handbook 1976-77 $5 -Hardware Documentation Kit Handbook 1982 $8 -Microcomputers and Memories 1981 $10-PDP11/04/24/34a/44/70 Processor H'book 1981 $5 -PDP11 Peripherals Handbook 1976 $8 -PDP11 Software Handbook 1978-79 $6 -PDP11 Software Sourcebook-Applications Software Vol 1 Third Edition (Sept. 1984) $6 -PDP11 Software Sourcebook-Systems Software Vol 2 Third Edition (Sept. 1984) Other: $5 -VAX Performance Summary - 8800 series labeled For Internal Use Only $6 -VAX Performance Summary - 6500 series (+ others) labeled For Internal Use Only $7 -Guide to VAX C -March 1987 AI-L370C-TE From harrison at timharrison.com Tue Sep 19 21:22:11 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC References: Message-ID: <39C81F53.8327075@timharrison.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > It sounds like communism is creeping onward - when the right to > intellectual property is questioned, something's very wrong. Is this Not to get into a flame war (and isn't this list supposed to be for old computers?), but I don't think that we're creeping toward communism (even though I'm in Canada, I did live in the US for two years, and have learned something of the "American mentality" -- no insult intended). To be honest, I think what the eventual outcome *should* be is this: Those who wish to patent/copyright their intellectual property may. However, that should be limited to specific processes that are proprietary to their idea. Copyrighting "file transfers" is too much. Copyrighting "file transfers using Tim's File Transfer Protocol[tm]" is okay. However, if you copyright "file transfers", then you're being anti-competitive, as Bill can't create his "Bill's File Transfer Protocol[tm]" without being sued out of existence. That's not fair or right. I think that in this stage of the technological game, open sourcing is a good neighbour type of thing. You don't have to do it, and lots of places don't (do you see Cisco open sourcing IOS?). And there's no harm in not opening your software. Others make good routing software (well, bad example, I suppose). Cisco isn't going after Nortel, or Lucent, or... Microsoft is probably not planning on opening up the source to Windows, but Linux and the BSDs are open. All have their place. MS stifled competition, but not because they patented the world. Having a good idea, and protecting it from being ripped off isn't a bad thing in the end. But, if you stifle people's ability to make competing products, or block them from innovating, it's bad. > intellectual or physical and make it available to all. Ok, did I spoil > the surprise for anyone about what's in store for the citizens of the > U.S. if Al Gore is successfully maneuvered into office by the mass > media and pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.? I've heard both sides of this debate, and I fear both of them, to be honest. Neither of them will have interns, will they? And, just to try to be somewhere within the general range of this list, I will now mention an old computer: PDP 11/34a. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 19 21:35:21 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <000b01c022a4$c21f8380$16721fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Sep 19, 2000 08:47:37 PM Message-ID: <200009200235.TAA20312@shell1.aracnet.com> > Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe > and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks > John Keys > What format is the data in? Moving the files over a serial cable is probably the easiest. I think you'll need a Super Serial Card. If you've got a Apple //gs, and a 68k based Mac with a 1.44Mb floppy you should be able to copy it to 3.5" floppy and then copy it to the Mac's HD, at which point you can then copy it to a PC Floppy. Zane From mbg at world.std.com Tue Sep 19 21:43:34 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC Message-ID: <200009200243.WAA23145@world.std.com> >puppy downers (those who watched the old, original, Saturday Night >Live TV show in the 80's will understand this), and classify those who puppy *uppers* and doggy *downers* Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rdd at smart.net Tue Sep 19 22:47:49 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <39C81F53.8327075@timharrison.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Tim Harrison wrote: > And, just to try to be somewhere within the general range of this list, > I will now mention an old computer: > > PDP 11/34a. Excellent choice! I've got one and want to restore it! :-) -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From rdd at smart.net Tue Sep 19 22:55:32 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple Uppers & Mac Downers (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <200009200243.WAA23145@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Megan wrote: > >puppy downers (those who watched the old, original, Saturday Night > >Live TV show in the 80's will understand this), and classify those who > > puppy *uppers* and > doggy *downers* Thanks for the correction! Not only did you remember, but you remembered the fine details. :-) Giving this more thought, perhaps something similar is what some people on this list need for their Macintoshes to allow them to run faster and slower for "classic computing" purposes: Apple uppers and Mac downers. -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Sep 19 23:12:01 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: More DEC manuals avail References: <39C81EAD.AC8827C9@arrl.net> Message-ID: <39C83911.73242F12@arrl.net> OK, all of the manuals are tentatively spoken for. Thanks to all who expressed interest. Next step, i'll be trimming back some of my DEC hardware. Hope to have a list posted in the next day or so. Nick Nick Oliviero wrote: > Well I waded back thru the library, here are a > few more manuals that I can part with. Please > contact me off-list if any are of interest. > > Again these are complete, not torn. Prices as > noted, shipping INCLUDED. > > Handbooks: > $5 -Digital Logic Handbook 1976-77 > $5 -Hardware Documentation Kit Handbook 1982 > $8 -Microcomputers and Memories 1981 > $10-PDP11/04/24/34a/44/70 Processor H'book 1981 > $5 -PDP11 Peripherals Handbook 1976 > $8 -PDP11 Software Handbook 1978-79 > $6 -PDP11 Software Sourcebook-Applications Software > Vol 1 Third Edition (Sept. 1984) > $6 -PDP11 Software Sourcebook-Systems Software > Vol 2 Third Edition (Sept. 1984) > Other: > $5 -VAX Performance Summary - 8800 series > labeled For Internal Use Only > $6 -VAX Performance Summary - 6500 series (+ others) > labeled For Internal Use Only > $7 -Guide to VAX C -March 1987 AI-L370C-TE From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Sep 19 23:12:22 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <200009200235.TAA20312@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <000b01c022a4$c21f8380$16721fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Sep 19, 2000 08:47:37 PM Message-ID: <200009200414.e8K4EZ518946@grover.winsite.com> From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Apple IIe data Help > > Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe > > and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks John Keys > > > > What format is the data in? Moving the files over a serial cable is > probably the easiest. I think you'll need a Super Serial Card. If you've > got a Apple //gs, and a 68k based Mac with a 1.44Mb floppy you should be > able to copy it to 3.5" floppy and then copy it to the Mac's HD, at which > point you can then copy it to a PC Floppy. > > Zane > I second that. If you can feed the 5.25" floppy into a IIgs, then dump the data onto a 3.5" floppy, from what I understand most any midrange Mac should be happy to read it (I'm not sure about the G3's or later). You can then format a dos floppy on the Mac and dump it there. Once, long ago, I had a mailing list in an AmigaDOS database that needed to get to a guy who was MS-DOS only. IIRC, we used a null modem cable on the serial ports, and he fired up a terminal program while I "printed" out to the serial port. Worked just ducky. Really hated to send my nice, happy AmigaDOS data into that godforsaken environment, though.... ;o) Good luck. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 19 23:56:46 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <200009200414.e8K4EZ518946@grover.winsite.com> from "Paul Braun" at Sep 19, 2000 11:12:22 PM Message-ID: <200009200456.VAA02226@shell1.aracnet.com> Paul Braun wrote: > I second that. If you can feed the 5.25" floppy into a IIgs, then > dump the data onto a 3.5" floppy, from what I understand most any > midrange Mac should be happy to read it (I'm not sure about the > G3's or later). You can then format a dos floppy on the Mac and > dump it there. Can a PowerMac handle a ProDOS floppy? I know my PowerBook 540c and SE/30 can. I also know that when I had to read in a lot of floppies I broke out my PowerBook 540c instead of using my PowerMac 8500. I've wondered if the real reason for dropping floppies isn't because they suck so bad on PowerMacs speed wise! So basically my questions are: 1. Which version of the Mac OS was support for ProDOS dropped 2. Can any PowerMacs read ProDOS floppies Zane From foo at siconic.com Tue Sep 19 23:01:47 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <000b01c022a4$c21f8380$16721fd1@default> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe > and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks Have him modem it over to another machine, or by null modem. There's also printing and then OCR'ing, but that's too error prone. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Sep 20 00:29:43 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <200009200456.VAA02226@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Sep 19, 0 09:56:46 pm" Message-ID: <200009200529.WAA10090@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Can a PowerMac handle a ProDOS floppy? I know my PowerBook 540c and SE/30 > can. I also know that when I had to read in a lot of floppies I broke out > my PowerBook 540c instead of using my PowerMac 8500. I've wondered if the > real reason for dropping floppies isn't because they suck so bad on > PowerMacs speed wise! > > So basically my questions are: > 1. Which version of the Mac OS was support for ProDOS dropped > 2. Can any PowerMacs read ProDOS floppies At this very moment there is a IIgs boot floppy (ProDOS 800K) in my PowerMac 7300 running 8.6. Dunno about MacOS 9. I doubt it will be in X. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 20 01:16:22 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <000b01c022a4$c21f8380$16721fd1@default> Message-ID: >Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe >and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks >John Keys Hook them up with a null modem cable and tell the PC to input from serial to a word processor, and tell a IIe to print. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 20 01:25:01 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Solbourne something4000 In-Reply-To: <200009200243.WAA23145@world.std.com> Message-ID: A few odd bits floated by in the scrap yard I was in today (SoCal), some Teleray terminals looked cute, bunch of sun stuff (3/50, 386i) unfortunately all or most scrapped on site. I brought home a pair of Solbourne something4000 workstations with Sun GDM1601 monitors. First one I tried booted, but didn't seem entirely happy and rebooted when I lacked a password. They seem fairly intact, but may have been offline for more that a year, and seem to want some network something they are no longer going to get. From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Sep 21 03:31:27 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: memory modules Message-ID: <39C964EF.27109.19A4758@localhost> Is there any comprehensive list or reliable method to identify memory chips or modules ? While the speed is usually easily seen with the "-xx", size and type are difficult to decipher based on the chip #. It used to be easy to see parity(9 chips) or not but no longer, not to mention things like an IBM presence detect. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ncherry at home.net Wed Sep 20 01:20:39 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! References: Message-ID: <39C85737.66BC4B1@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > I have an ATR8000 and an ATR8500. I can help you with your project and > > can provide docs if you need them. > > Never heard of the ATR8500. How did it differe from the 8000? It's my understanding that the 8500 had a real serial port and a hard drive interface (optional?). I think there was more also. I'd never really heard of it until I went looking for info on the 8000. My freind ran a BBS off the ATR with a hard drive. I always assumed that it was attached to the 8000. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Sep 20 08:16:08 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: Message-ID: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > PDP 11/34a. > > Excellent choice! I've got one and want to restore it! :-) Me too. :) Hence my choice. I have no idea where to start. I've got this 6' rack sitting in my living room, filled with DEC bits o' PDP. I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in our apartment. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Sep 20 08:17:22 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <200009200456.VAA02226@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200009200414.e8K4EZ518946@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000920081651.031fe330@pc> The book data is stored in which word processor's format? - John From chris.muller at mullermedia.com Wed Sep 20 08:43:45 2000 From: chris.muller at mullermedia.com (Chris Muller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c02308$cc71e260$6e04100a@infohouse.infohouse.com> I know of a conversion service . Regards, Chris Muller Muller Media Conversions http://www.mullermedia.com 212-344-0474 -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 12:02 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Apple IIe data Help On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe > and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks Have him modem it over to another machine, or by null modem. There's also printing and then OCR'ing, but that's too error prone. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From rivie at teraglobal.com Wed Sep 20 08:50:47 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> References: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> Message-ID: >I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in >our apartment. :) I went through this argument with a roommate once. I won when I pointed out that I would have to simultaneously start both of the RK05s on my PDP-8/e to match the current draw of his blow dryer. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From chris.muller at mullermedia.com Wed Sep 20 09:04:36 2000 From: chris.muller at mullermedia.com (Chris Muller) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <200009200235.TAA20312@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000801c0230b$b7a17c80$6e04100a@infohouse.infohouse.com> We can convert IIe 5" disk data. Regards, Chris Muller Muller Media Conversions http://www.mullermedia.com 212-344-0474 -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of healyzh@aracnet.com Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:35 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Apple IIe data Help > Have person that needs to get his two books that he wrote off of his IIe > and onto a PC. What's the best method for this ? Thanks > John Keys > What format is the data in? Moving the files over a serial cable is probably the easiest. I think you'll need a Super Serial Card. If you've got a Apple //gs, and a 68k based Mac with a 1.44Mb floppy you should be able to copy it to 3.5" floppy and then copy it to the Mac's HD, at which point you can then copy it to a PC Floppy. Zane From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Sep 20 09:15:57 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: I've got my Atari 800 and ATR8000! In-Reply-To: <39C85737.66BC4B1@home.net> Message-ID: <20000920141444.VTKQ27630.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The ATR8000 had a software uart coded into it's rom. It wasn't any good over 4800 baud. It would work at higher rates but would overflow if you tried to download anything. The ATR8500 is an ATR8000 with a hardware UART and DMA capability. There was a hard disk interface that worked with several z80 machines including the ATR8000. The ATR8500 is much smaller than it's predecessor and came standard with 64k ram. There is a 50-pin dma header on the board for upgrades but I don't know of any. The ATR8500 was never released for sale. Only a few went to dealers for evaluation. Mine is serial number 5 and includes the dealer application and acceptance sheets as well as schematics and brochures. >> >> Never heard of the ATR8500. How did it differe from the 8000? >It's my understanding that the 8500 had a real serial port and a hard >drive interface (optional?). I think there was more also. I'd never >really heard of it until I went looking for info on the 8000. My freind >ran a BBS off the ATR with a hard drive. I always assumed that it was >attached to the 8000. I think the DMA jack was meant for an HDDC but I don't think they ever made one. My ATR8000 also has the copower 88 board installed with 256k ram. PKZip runs..... -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 20 09:44:58 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from Roger Ivie at "Sep 20, 2000 07:50:47 am" Message-ID: <200009201444.e8KEiwB16538@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> > >I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in > >our apartment. :) > > I went through this argument with a roommate once. I won when I > pointed out that I would have to simultaneously start both of the > RK05s on my PDP-8/e to match the current draw of his blow dryer. > > -- > Roger Ivie > rivie@teraglobal.com > Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation Yup... but an RK05F, RK05J and PDP11/23 cpu in 11/03 5' corporate cabinet with RLV11J and 32mb of memory will blow a 15 AMP 110 AC breaker quite nicely, thank you. 8-) Ran them all in my kitchen with RT11v4 and 5 back in the old days. I'd swap my Win9x desktop for one any day. I got much more enjoyment out of the RT11 system than almost anything else but VAX/VMS and FreeBSD Unix. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 20 09:54:59 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a In-Reply-To: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> from Tim Harrison at "Sep 20, 2000 09:16:08 am" Message-ID: <200009201454.e8KEsxn16562@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> > "R. D. Davis" wrote: > > > > PDP 11/34a. > > > > Excellent choice! I've got one and want to restore it! :-) > > Me too. :) Hence my choice. I have no idea where to start. I've got > this 6' rack sitting in my living room, filled with DEC bits o' PDP. > > I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in > our apartment. :) > > -- > > > Tim Harrison > Network Engineer > harrison@timharrison.com > http://www.networklevel.com/ > > First thing -- work on the CPU and DL11 serial port, once that's up move to the peripherals. There's no problem bringing up an 11/34 on 110v AC... you can just plug the BA11 box with the CPU to the wall (assuming you've got the US 110v version of it all). On an 11/34, I'd drop the top and bottom cover on the ba11 box and check that nothing's loose or shorted and then run a vacuum nozzle over the boards one at a time to suck out the loose dirt. Before you clean it out, write down the exact position and slot of each board and cable. I'd also run it over the backplane slots after pulling the boards. Add serial terminal to serial port and see what happens. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Sep 20 09:48:52 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <39C8CE54.175AD60F@timharrison.com> Roger Ivie wrote: > I went through this argument with a roommate once. I won when I > pointed out that I would have to simultaneously start both of the > RK05s on my PDP-8/e to match the current draw of his blow dryer. As there are currently 19 machines running in my apartment, along with 6 monitors, a couple of external SCSI disk arrays, two fans, all of our electrical appliances, stereos, etc., we've discovered that plugging in anything more will blow the fuses. We've got a couple of spare ones ready, as we've shown we need them. :) I've been through that argument myself with my wife, in trying to get more computers. :) Unfortunately, I'm running out of argument. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Sep 20 10:19:51 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a References: <200009201454.e8KEsxn16562@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <39C8D597.9D9079FE@timharrison.com> Bill Pechter wrote: > First thing -- work on the CPU and DL11 serial port, once that's up > move to the peripherals. > > There's no problem bringing up an 11/34 on 110v AC... you can just plug > the BA11 box with the CPU to the wall (assuming you've got the US 110v > version of it all). This thing was used at Canadian Forces Base London during the late 70s, ending it's run in '81, from what I can tell. I have 10 or so binders of schematics, maintenance documentation, etc. Still don't know anything about it. :) > On an 11/34, I'd drop the top and bottom cover on the ba11 box and check > that nothing's loose or shorted and then run a vacuum nozzle over the > boards one at a time to suck out the loose dirt. Once I figure out what that is, I'll do it. :) I need a visual guide to the PDP-11/34a. :) > Add serial terminal to serial port and see what happens. I've got a DECServer 200/MC. Can I use it with this machine? -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Sep 20 10:48:01 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) Message-ID: <20000920154801.77697.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > Yup... but an RK05F, RK05J and PDP11/23 cpu in 11/03 5' corporate > cabinet with RLV11J and 32mb of memory will blow a 15 AMP 110 AC > breaker quite nicely, thank you. 8-) How'd you get 32Mb of memory in an 11/03? :-) Still... nice setup. I wish I had a working RK05f... I have a couple of RK05j drives (I ruined the only 'f' I ever saw as a teenager - I didn't know what I was doing and I moved the fixed pack when the drive was still turning. :-P I still have the platter as a reminder.) Speaking of RK05 drives, is there still a source for absolute filters? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Wed Sep 20 10:53:04 2000 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Mac 400k floppies Message-ID: <34858741@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 258 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/2fb46fa2/attachment.bin From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Sep 20 10:55:54 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at "Sep 19, 2000 09:22:55 pm" Message-ID: <200009201555.IAA28864@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 tim.mann@compaq.com wrote: > > The tone of that article really annoys me. The idea seems to be to blur > > the distinction between sharing your own work (obviously laudable) and > > sharing someone else's work without their permission (obviously unethical, > > and folks generally knew that even in 1975). It also tries to oversimplify > > Wasn't there also an issue about Bill Gates & Friends having acquired > that code they based it on unethically as well? I seem to recall > having read something about that numerous places over a decade ago, or > has that little bit of history been rewritten? It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S. government and Harvard University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing world might be a somewhat different place. Gates's entire career has been about theft. Seeing him complain about someone stealing from him... The hipocracy is downright funny. > Ok, did I spoil > the surprise for anyone about what's in store for the citizens of the > U.S. if Al Gore is successfully maneuvered into office by the mass > media and pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.? Can we cut the political fearmongering? Do you really think Mr "I got no-cost oil leases in the middle-east cause my Daddy kicked Iraq's ass" is that much different? Who do you think is paying W.'s bills? Honest citizens? Eric From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 20 11:18:02 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <200009201555.IAA28864@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Sep 20, 2000 08:55:54 am" Message-ID: <200009201618.e8KGI2716750@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> > > On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 tim.mann@compaq.com wrote: > > > > Wasn't there also an issue about Bill Gates & Friends having acquired > > that code they based it on unethically as well? I seem to recall > > having read something about that numerous places over a decade ago, or > > has that little bit of history been rewritten? > > It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S. government and Harvard > University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it > was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed > it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing > world might be a somewhat different place. > > Gates's entire career has been about theft. Seeing him complain about > someone stealing from him... The hipocracy is downright funny. > > > Eric > Well, there hasn't been a real good book on the early days of Microsoft, the Harvard incident, MS's buy and kill method of eliminating competition and inovation, etc. Seems like no one has the info or guts for the tell all book. I'd buy copies for a number of folks so they could see what MS and BG is really about. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 20 11:22:58 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <20000920154801.77697.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Sep 20, 2000 08:48:01 am" Message-ID: <200009201622.e8KGMw116777@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> > > --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > Yup... but an RK05F, RK05J and PDP11/23 cpu in 11/03 5' corporate > > cabinet with RLV11J and 32mb of memory will blow a 15 AMP 110 AC > > breaker quite nicely, thank you. 8-) > > How'd you get 32Mb of memory in an 11/03? :-) OOPS !!! Actually should've been 32KW (64MB) of memory. Been working with too many Sun Workstations and Athlons lately... > > Still... nice setup. I wish I had a working RK05f... I have a couple of > RK05j drives (I ruined the only 'f' I ever saw as a teenager - I didn't > know what I was doing and I moved the fixed pack when the drive was still > turning. :-P I still have the platter as a reminder.) > Clean the heads and install a new RK05 pack and it'll probably work. I had one RK05J that crashed on a platter with a 1/4" ding in it. (DEC security confiscated it from me at training an shipped it back in a box standing on one end (up against the plastic covered case screw). Crash, ding, ding, ding, ding. Sounded like a bell at every hit. Cleaned heads, new pack, ran error free. > Speaking of RK05 drives, is there still a source for absolute filters? Gee, I don't know. I do know that one ran a year or so with RT11 and the absolute filter cap still on the filter (was real warm in the drive, though). Idiot who installed it should've been shot... > > -ethan > Bill > > > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 20 11:30:31 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a In-Reply-To: <39C8D597.9D9079FE@timharrison.com> References: <200009201454.e8KEsxn16562@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> Message-ID: >> Add serial terminal to serial port and see what happens. > >I've got a DECServer 200/MC. Can I use it with this machine? Technically no. However, it might be possible to use the DECserver 200/MC as a console server. Of course then you'd need something to do reverse LAT, and I don't think Linux can do that yet (haven't checked). I think you'd have to use and OpenVMS box. NOTE: I have no clue as to what I'm talking about :^) It's just my understanding that it's possible. One of these days I'll probably be attempting to do just this, but for the time being I'll continue to move VT420's to where I need them (except for the one that stays plugged into my DECserver 90L+ for connecting to the VMS Cluster). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From korpela at siren.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Sep 20 11:37:12 2000 From: korpela at siren.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <200009201618.e8KGI2716750@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> from Bill Pechter at "Sep 20, 2000 12:18:02 pm" Message-ID: <200009201637.JAA08759@siren.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Well, there hasn't been a real good book on the early days of Microsoft, > the Harvard incident, MS's buy and kill method of eliminating > competition and inovation, etc. Harvard appears to have sealed or destroyed any record of what occurred when B.G. "dropped out" as part of whatever agreement was reached. Nobody who really knows the details is saying much of anything. No one in the press appears to even consider that Bill didn't really "drop out" voluntarily. If they did consider it, their editor would probably kill it. > Seems like no one has the info or guts for the tell all book. Either that or they don't have the ability to convince a publisher that it's a good idea to annoy someone who could buy them with pocket change. Eric From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Sep 20 11:45:18 2000 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: CoCoFEST & Re: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <200009201618.e8KGI2716750@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> References: <200009201555.IAA28864@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000920124518.010f2fc8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Bill Pechter may have mentioned these words: >Well, there hasn't been a real good book on the early days of Microsoft, >the Harvard incident, MS's buy and kill method of eliminating >competition and inovation, etc. > >Seems like no one has the info or guts for the tell all book. Guts? Sure. Hell, I'm not afraid of him. (Scott McNealy is my hero... ;-) Info? I don't have it, and wouldn't have a clue as to where to find it... but if I did, I'd take a crack at writing it (if, of course, I actually had the time... ;-) >I'd buy copies for a number of folks so they could see what MS and BG >is really about. Me too... Some of my close friends mention to me about my MS "opinion" which, simply put, is (low, loud, gravelly booming voice) "Windows Sucks" but mainly because in a computer-selling-business-environment it's not that great to say to the general computer-buying populace, which is true and I'm working on that. However, for those friends who tell me "you only say that because you're jealous" 1) don't know me very well - I'm not interested in monetary wealth beyond comfortable living, and 2) would get the book... ahem... as we say in the US Army - up their 3rd point of contact, just before a Size 9 Kiwi Enema (the name taken for the type of boot polish used in the Military, not the NZ fruit... ;-) Anywho - back on track - just a friendly reminder that on May 5 & 6th, 2001, the Glenside Color Computer Club is holding the 10th annual "Last" Chicago CoCoFEST in Elgin, Illinois - and I *actually* asked the time off to go this time!!! Damn, I've wanted to go for over 15 years, and I finally can!!! :-) :-) For more info, email Tony Podraza - tonypodraza@juno.com or Brian Goers, bgoers@ais.net. Website: http://members.aol.com/clubbbs/glenside See y'all! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 20 11:48:42 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <200009201622.e8KGMw116777@bg-tc-ppp227.monmouth.com> References: <20000920154801.77697.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Sep 20, 2000 08:48:01 am" Message-ID: Bill Pechter wrote: >OOPS !!! >Actually should've been 32KW (64MB) of memory. Been working with too >many Sun Workstations and Athlons lately... The Smart A** in me wants to know what word size you're using to get 64 Megabytes out of 32KW! :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Sep 20 12:08:54 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Sep 20, 2000 09:48:42 am" Message-ID: <200009201708.MAA00254@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Bill Pechter wrote: > >OOPS !!! > >Actually should've been 32KW (64MB) of memory. Been working with too > >many Sun Workstations and Athlons lately... > > The Smart A** in me wants to know what word size you're using to get 64 > Megabytes out of 32KW! :^) > > Zane Probably using some of that Magic-Core memory... -Lawrence LeMay From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Sep 20 12:52:40 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <200009201555.IAA28864@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000920125027.027d0580@pc> At 08:55 AM 9/20/00 -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote: >It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S. government and Harvard >University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it >was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed >it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing >world might be a somewhat different place. Yes, but universities are also well-known for letting researchers and even students use their computers for whatever purpose they like, without regard for the intellectual property rights... as opposed to the average corporation today, which will claim to own everything you do on their equipment and even outside the office, or in the case of one employee agreement a top-5 company once tried to get me to sign, everything you did in the 18 months *after* you'd left their employment, as well. - John From korpela at siren.ssl.berkeley.edu Wed Sep 20 13:41:02 2000 From: korpela at siren.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000920125027.027d0580@pc> from John Foust at "Sep 20, 2000 12:52:40 pm" Message-ID: <200009201841.LAA16699@siren.ssl.berkeley.edu> > At 08:55 AM 9/20/00 -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > >It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S. government and Harvard > >University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it > >was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed > >it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing > >world might be a somewhat different place. > > Yes, but universities are also well-known for letting researchers > and even students use their computers for whatever purpose they > like, without regard for the intellectual property rights... Not the Univerisity I work for. It claims rights to any code I develop on university computers. (But fortunately it doesn't have a problem of open source or public domain release of most source code.) There was a volunteer on a project here that tried to use some software developed here for a commercial venture. The university made him rewrite it from scratch... And he wasn't even paid for his work... Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 20 13:39:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 19, 0 11:47:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3410 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/a0cc3f8f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 20 13:24:16 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <000b01c022a4$c21f8380$16721fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Sep 19, 0 08:47:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1929 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/c79622d9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 20 13:55:41 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Sep 20, 0 09:48:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 139 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/14726ea6/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Sep 20 15:20:32 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) Message-ID: <20000920202032.23255.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > OOPS !!! > Actually should've been 32KW (64MB) of memory. Still itchy on that "m" key I see. :-) > > I wish I had a working RK05f... (I ruined the only 'f' I ever saw as a > > teenager - I didn't know what I was doing and I moved the fixed pack when > > the drive was still turning. :-P I still have the platter as a reminder.) > > > > Clean the heads and install a new RK05 pack and it'll probably work. That was 1984. The drive was disposed of _long_ ago. I did look at the heads - There was more than a little oxide on the upper head; it looked like a rusty rasp had been drawn across it. I destroyed a 12-sector f pack. I still have the 16-sector pack that came with the drive when that company bought it (but they used PDP-11s, not PDP-8s, so it sat on a shelf the entire time they owned the unit). I never have been able to see what's on this pack; the only 16-sector pack I own (I don't have an RK8E, just an RK11C and RKV11D). Mostly, I've used RL01/RL02 drives on OMNIBUS/Unibus/Qbus machines that didn't have an MSCP controller. Never had an RL drive die on me. Got plenty of spare parts when it eventually does happen. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rdd at smart.net Wed Sep 20 16:28:45 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > My experience with these machines suggest that unless you _know_ you have > a complete, working, system it's best to start with a minimal system (CPU All I know is that I have a complete rusting system. ...well, it was complete before I thoroughly disassembled it back in 1997. It's only the chassis, that's still rusting, the power transformer now seems to be ok. > This is going to be somewhat general, but it'll give you an idea of > what's involved. When you actually get started, post more questions, and > I (and others) will get out the manuals. > > To start with, take the cover off the CPU box (the unit with the octal Ermmm... I already did that. :-) > keypad on the front). Make a note of what all the boards are, where they > go, their M-numbers (on the handles of the boards), etc. And where all > the cables go (some go to the frontpanel in the CPU box, some go to the > peripherals (if you have disks, for example) and some will go to serial > ports for the terminals. Also mark which way round they go, of course. Did that too. Alas, I'm still saerching for those notes where I jotted all that down, in detail. > Then pull all the boards and cables. Identify what the various boards do > from the Module Lists (e.g. on the web). Did that. > With all the boards out, plug the CPU box PSU (only) into the mains. I My PSU is in bits as well... I took it apart to oil the transformer, like I did the PDP-8/e, if you recall. For those unfamiliar with the concept of oiling a transformer, it was an attempt at slowing down the rusting of the cores. > would guess you have a 110V unit and it'll have a normal 15A 3 pin plug > on it. For the moment, disconnect the small 3-pin power control bus > plugs, but again note how they go. Did that. > Turn on the CPU box at the front panel control, and the fans should start Ok, but no fans are going to start at this point. :-) > up. Check all power lines at the backplane with a voltmeter (again, ask > here as to what pins to check if you don't have information on the > backplane). If any are missing/incorrect, it's time to start > troubleshooting the PSU. When I get this machine reassembled, I'll go through all these steps. Thanks very much for providing everyone on this list with information about the correct way to bring a machine back to life rather than the horrid "just plug it in and see what happens" approach that some take. [...] > With that configuration you should be able to enter programs on the front > panel and run them. You should also be able to run Console ODT (a tiny Speaking of the front panel of these machines, has anyone here added more lights to the front panel in order to have a real set of blinking lights? Something tells me that doing so shouldn't be too difficult a hack. > That should give you a general idea of what's going to be involved... Yes, lots of fun. :-) -- R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of rdd@perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like 410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Sep 20 17:10:49 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, R. D. Davis wrote: > On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > With that configuration you should be able to enter programs on the front > > panel and run them. You should also be able to run Console ODT (a tiny > > Speaking of the front panel of these machines, has anyone here added more > lights to the front panel in order to have a real set of blinking lights? > Something tells me that doing so shouldn't be too difficult a hack. (to quote Bugs Bunny...) Well now, I wouldn't say *that*... You see, (assuming you have the FP with the 'programmers panel' (seven segment displays and keypad) rather than the 'operators panel' (power switch and run/stop/boot dial), you actually have an interesting deviation from the 'norm' for PDP front panels. You see, the 'programmers panel' is not hardwired to the CPU/bus like most of the other systems are. As you watch the display and whack (gently please) the keys you are actually talking to an (don't bonk) Intel 8008 processor, which in turn actually communicates your intents to the system... Now, while this would obviously not preclude adding 'bit lights', it would be quite the interesting exercise. -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Sep 20 17:20:21 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: New Find Message-ID: <00e401c02350$f7cdf640$79721fd1@default> Anyone seen a CPT Visual Memory computer before ? It's model 4800 and uses a selectric like typewriter for input and printing and has an external cassette unit. This one odd looking computer, the lady I got it from says she purchased it back in 1984 as her first computer. She's looking for the documentation for it. PS Thanks to everyone for the input on the apple to pc problem. John Keys From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Sep 20 17:44:41 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) Message-ID: <006601c02355$ed9bb1d0$4b109a8d@ajp166> From: Zane H. Healy >Bill Pechter wrote: >>OOPS !!! >>Actually should've been 32KW (64MB) of memory. Been working with too >>many Sun Workstations and Athlons lately... > >The Smart A** in me wants to know what word size you're using to get 64 >Megabytes out of 32KW! :^) > > Zane If one cannot calculate that then you need to restrict you self to the moto 14500 ICU. ;) Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 20 17:16:58 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Sep 20, 0 05:28:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1913 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/bf46ba00/attachment.ksh From BobMcPhail at aol.com Wed Sep 20 18:04:02 2000 From: BobMcPhail at aol.com (BobMcPhail@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? Message-ID: <28.aedb75e.26fa9c63@aol.com> Ok, I need some assistance. I'm working on restoring an older Japanese computer that requires a male to male 8 PIN DIN cable to link with some peripherals. Does anyone have a good source for cables like this? I know I can probably solder something together, but I was hoping somebody knew of a resource for these which required slightly less work. Thanks. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 20 17:51:05 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:32 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <006601c02355$ed9bb1d0$4b109a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Sep 20, 0 06:44:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/f8792090/attachment.ksh From kdavis at ndx.net Wed Sep 20 18:46:42 2000 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP Message-ID: <200009202346.e8KNkgQ05436@bender.ndx.net> >From the "I must have too much time on my hands" dept.: www.ndx.net/pocketpdp Kirk From richard at idcomm.com Wed Sep 20 18:51:39 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: New Find References: <00e401c02350$f7cdf640$79721fd1@default> Message-ID: <001a01c0235d$b8fd1ba0$0500c0a8@winbook> I don't know this particular model, nor do I know much about this company, but I do know, as one of my partners in a long-defunct business enterprise once worked for CPT, that the company was a word-processor vendor. This thing might actually be one of those, as their computer line didn't appear until somewhat later. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 4:20 PM Subject: New Find > Anyone seen a CPT Visual Memory computer before ? It's model 4800 and > uses a selectric like typewriter for input and printing and has an > external cassette unit. This one odd looking computer, the lady I got it > from says she purchased it back in 1984 as her first computer. She's > looking for the documentation for it. > > PS Thanks to everyone for the input on the apple to pc problem. > John Keys > > From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Sep 20 19:15:23 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: <200009202346.e8KNkgQ05436@bender.ndx.net> Message-ID: <39C9531B.9255E661@timharrison.com> "Kirk B. Davis" wrote: > www.ndx.net/pocketpdp Someone has GOT to make a PalmOS version of this! I refuse to use CE devices, but this would RULE on PalmOS. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Sep 20 19:33:44 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: Re: PocketPDP (Tim Harrison) References: <200009202346.e8KNkgQ05436@bender.ndx.net> <39C9531B.9255E661@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <14793.22376.615014.973412@phaduka.neurotica.com> On September 20, Tim Harrison wrote: > > www.ndx.net/pocketpdp > > Someone has GOT to make a PalmOS version of this! I refuse to use CE > devices, but this would RULE on PalmOS. :) Damn...if someone DOES port that to PalmOS, I'll go out and BUY one of those infernal doesn't-recognize-simple-roman-handwriting-like-my- righteous-but-discontinued-newton-does-so-well Palm boxes. I still think "Palm Pilot" sounds like a euphemism. -Dave McGuire From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Wed Sep 20 19:43:18 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> <39C8CE54.175AD60F@timharrison.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Harrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:48 AM Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) > As there are currently 19 machines running in my apartment, along with 6 > monitors, a couple of external SCSI disk arrays, two fans, all of our > electrical appliances, stereos, etc., we've discovered that plugging in > anything more will blow the fuses. We've got a couple of spare ones > ready, as we've shown we need them. :) > Tim Harrison I have a little over 20 machines in my basement -- mostly PCs of the Pentium class (a no-cost cluster :) ) but a few anceint sun boxen, 2 19" monitors, television, printers, hubs, stereo, power tools and a few other things. I've never blown a breaker in this house (knock on wood), but every time someone uses the treadmill across the basement my UPS sees it as a brownout and switches to battery power. Kevin From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Sep 20 20:09:55 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> <39C8CE54.175AD60F@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <39C95FE3.E34B3E3E@timharrison.com> Kevin Stewart wrote: > I have a little over 20 machines in my basement -- mostly PCs of the Pentium > class (a no-cost cluster :) ) but a few anceint sun boxen, 2 19" monitors, > television, printers, hubs, stereo, power tools and a few other things. I've > never blown a breaker in this house (knock on wood), but every time someone > uses the treadmill across the basement my UPS sees it as a brownout and > switches to battery power. Unfortunately, I'm an apartment dweller. I'm at the whim of the building's power. We've been having regular brownouts today, all day, at almost regular intervals. I wouldn't really have noticed it, as I tend not to pay too much attention to lights, but the computer room light dimmed, and I freaked out. Turning off almost all of my stuff didn't change it, so I have to call the building management. Most of my stuff is on UPS, so I'm okay with that. Some isn't, though, and that bothers me. Man, I can't wait until I can afford to buy a real house, with real power, and a real lawn. I've been thinking of putting Astroturf[tm] on the balcony, to simulate a lawn. :) BTW, riding the elevator with three other people, and a 6' rack of PDP-11 is an interesting experience. Especially when you live on the 25th floor. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Sep 20 20:10:53 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: <200009202346.e8KNkgQ05436@bender.ndx.net> <39C9531B.9255E661@timharrison.com> <14793.22376.615014.973412@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <39C9601D.A81F9225@timharrison.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > I still think "Palm Pilot" sounds like a euphemism. And if you knew the joy we "Palm Pilots" get from owning one, you'd have three already. ;) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Sep 20 20:19:25 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: CoCoFEST & Re: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC References: <200009201555.IAA28864@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> <3.0.1.32.20000920124518.010f2fc8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <004b01c02369$fcbf2f20$0100a8c0@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 2:15 AM Subject: CoCoFEST & Re: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC > in the US Army - up their 3rd point of contact, just before a Size 9 Kiwi > Enema (the name taken for the type of boot polish used in the Military, not > the NZ fruit... ;-) Well I'll be darned. Kiwi Black Parade Gloss is used by the US Army. (and I thought it was a purely ANZAC tradition) .....and I hate windoze too, the only thing I've seen good in it in recent times is the internet connection sharing, which seems to work very well with anything that speaks ethernet/TCP/IP, including Vaxen, old macs etc. I thought Micro$oft had actually done something noteworthy til I found out it was someone else's product, that they simply bought outright and integrated into Win98SE. Shoulda known...... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au AKA Flying Officer (AIRTC) Geoff Roberts Officer Commanding, No. 14 (City of Port Pirie) Flight, S.A. Squadron, Air Training Corps. From djenner at halcyon.com Wed Sep 20 21:31:01 2000 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: <200009202346.e8KNkgQ05436@bender.ndx.net> Message-ID: <39C972E5.CA6EB264@halcyon.com> This is great, but probably not very practical. On my Compaq 36xx PocketPC (ARM processor) the console I/O runs at about 300-1200 baud. And if you want to be able to read the characters, you get a 12 line by 32 char display (which you can scroll). The console also seems to get confused when you change the character display size or remove the keyboard from the display. Hey, maybe it IS just like it should be to be an accurate reconstruction of the PDP-11! Dave "Kirk B. Davis" wrote: > > >From the "I must have too much time on my hands" dept.: > > www.ndx.net/pocketpdp > > Kirk From djg at drs-esg.com Wed Sep 20 22:18:56 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: RK05 Filter Message-ID: <200009210318.XAA20770@drs-esg.com> >From: Ethan Dicks >Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) > >Speaking of RK05 drives, is there still a source for absolute filters? > Yup, Compaq (Used to be 1-800-DIGITAL to order) 12-12175-01 FILTER, AIR HEPA 122.00 My parts list says that is the right part but I have not actually ordered one. http://www.digital.com/dassearch.html And various third party http://www.airfiltrationprod.com/computer.html David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From jlewczyk at his.com Wed Sep 20 22:24:58 2000 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Mac 400k floppies In-Reply-To: <34858741@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <001801c0237b$8505e700$013da8c0@Corellian> Hi Marion, If nobody else is claiming the Mac drives, I'll take them in and try to repair them. I purchased some Mac parts from you last April which were VERY helpful in fixing up and old Mac 128 and a 512 too! I take in most any broken early Mac or Lisa thing. :-) I'll pay shipping and handling costs. How is school this semester? John John Lewczyk - IO Consulting - 401 Queens Row Street - Herndon, Virginia 20170-3131 - jlewczyk@his.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marion Bates Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 11:53 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Mac 400k floppies Hey -- I have a pair of external 400k Mac floppy drives. They both need work. One has intermittent read failures, the other has a note attached that says the eject mechanism isn't working. Would anyone like these for the cost of shipping from NH? -- MB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000920/a9a65e30/attachment.html From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Sep 20 23:10:52 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help In-Reply-To: <200009200456.VAA02226@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200009200414.e8K4EZ518946@grover.winsite.com> from "Paul Braun" at Sep 19, 2000 11:12:22 PM Message-ID: <200009210412.e8L4CwC30756@grover.winsite.com> >From what I understand, Zane Healy spake thus: > > Can a PowerMac handle a ProDOS floppy? Yup. I have a "High-speed Scsi card Utilities" disk sitting in my 7600 right now, and it opens up just ducky. You have to shut File Sharing down first, though..... I know my PowerBook 540c and SE/30 > can. I also know that when I had to read in a lot of floppies I broke out > my PowerBook 540c instead of using my PowerMac 8500. I've wondered if the > real reason for dropping floppies isn't because they suck so bad on > PowerMacs speed wise! > Good question. Shouldn't the speed be the same? > So basically my questions are: > 1. Which version of the Mac OS was support for ProDOS dropped > 2. Can any PowerMacs read ProDOS floppies > 2) Yup. Provided they have Superdrives in them. I doubt that the new SuperDisk drives can.....so that would be anything up to a beige G3. 1) All my PowerMacs (except the Duo 280c) are running 8.6.1, so I can speak up to there, but I don't know about 9. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com "A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without a bunch of bricks tied to its head." From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Sep 21 02:59:30 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> <39C8CE54.175AD60F@timharrison.com> <39C95FE3.E34B3E3E@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <003301c023a1$e001e020$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Harrison" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:39 AM Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) > Man, I can't wait until I can afford to buy a real house, with real > power, and a real lawn. I've been thinking of putting Astroturf[tm] on > the balcony, to simulate a lawn. :) Lawns are a novelty that soon wears off. Trust me. You will find yourself pushing a noisy lawnmower around or manicuring the weeds when you'd rather be tinkering. > BTW, riding the elevator with three other people, and a 6' rack of > PDP-11 is an interesting experience. I once transported a Vax cluster, 2 x Vax 6000's, a couple of HSC70's and some drive cabinets from Adelaide to Pirie (around 140 miles by road) in a one ton ute, er, pickup to you yanks, with a 8x4 trailer carrying the excess. Stopped for something to eat and drink at a place called Port Wakefield around 60 miles into the trip. Small place, consists of around 500 people and 5 or 6 roadhouses, catering to long distance truck drivers and the like. Got some very strange looks and spent some time between sips of coffee explaining that to numerous people that it was a computer system. It's amazing how many people think computers ALWAYS fitted in a box on a desk. Those under the age of 20 particularly have great difficulty accepting this.... > Especially when you live on the > 25th floor. :) And I thought a second floor flat was bad. Do you need oxygen? A high rise around here is defined as any building with more than 1 floor. (I live in a modest 4 BR single floor home attached to my shop these days) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Sep 21 06:46:16 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: <003301c023a1$e001e020$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:29:30 +0930 Geoff Roberts wrote: > From: "Tim Harrison" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:39 AM > Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) > > BTW, riding the elevator with three other people, and a 6' rack of > > PDP-11 is an interesting experience. > I once transported a Vax cluster, 2 x Vax 6000's, a couple of HSC70's > and some drive cabinets from Adelaide to Pirie My friend tells a story about a PDP-11/34a (how appropriate) that he was rescuing from King's College, London. A few friends helped him get the 11 and some disk packs into the lift (elevator). This was the same lift that the medical school used to transport bodies on wheeled trolleys, so it was about that size. The lift got stuck with the 11, disk packs and three people in. The engineer was called, and after a considerable delay, arrived and fixed the lift. Now we have an 11, disks and people on the ground floor, but it's quite late at night. The London tube (subway) has stopped running for the night. So, everybody piles into a Mini, along with PDP-11, etc. Now a Mini is a small car, even for England (anybody remember The Itailian Job?) and not designed for a heavy load. So, they're driving across London in the small hours of the morning in an overloaded Mini -- but all ends well, and the PDP is still alive and running in Bristol. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au Thu Sep 21 07:30:34 2000 From: jolminkh at nsw.bigpond.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: VT525 Message-ID: <001201c023c7$be0a8b40$dadf8490@tp.nsw.bigpond.net.au> I've found this neat little box labelled a VT525. What is this? Maybe I can keep it and use it as a terminal when I eventually get my PDP11/23 going? It has a module missing from the front and doesn't do anything except click when keys are pressed. Hans From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Sep 21 08:09:27 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: Message-ID: <000701c023cd$2c8d4ee0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) > My friend tells a story about a PDP-11/34a (how > appropriate) that he was rescuing from King's College, > London. A few friends helped him get the 11 and some disk > packs into the lift (elevator). This was the same lift > that the medical school used to transport bodies on wheeled > trolleys, so it was about that size. A good sized rack of gear...... > So, everybody piles into a Mini, along with PDP-11, etc. > Now a Mini is a small car, even for England Yup, had one for a while, my first car was its remote ancestor the Morris Minor. (1948 sidevalve lowlight 2 door, big high radiator and no water pump, cooling system ran (not terribly well in Aussie summers) on 'thermal syphonage' - wish I still had it!!) > (anybody remember The Itailian Job?) Mini Cooper S's if I recall correctly. > and not designed for a heavy > load. So, they're driving across London in the small hours > of the morning in an overloaded Mini -- but all ends well, > and the PDP is still alive and running in Bristol. I'm wondering how much of the '11 was protruding from the Mini. House brick on wheels.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 10:02:18 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: RK05 Filter Message-ID: <20000921150218.5324.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- David Gesswein wrote: > >From: Ethan Dicks > >Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) > > > >Speaking of RK05 drives, is there still a source for absolute filters? > > > Yup, Compaq (Used to be 1-800-DIGITAL to order) > > 12-12175-01 FILTER, AIR HEPA 122.00 Wahoo! At that price, I'm glad I have a couple of filters for my RL drives. ISTR we used to pay around $75 for third-party filters back in the day when we used removable pack drives on a regular basis. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 10:22:49 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP Message-ID: <20000921152249.42931.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tim Harrison wrote: > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > I still think "Palm Pilot" sounds like a euphemism. > > And if you knew the joy we "Palm Pilots" get from owning one, you'd have > three already. ;) I've done some interesting things with mine... I used to have a VT100 emulator on it that I have used as a console for an H-11 and to configure Cisco Routers (I had to remove it to make room for GPS data for a California to Ohio flight and I haven't put it back yet). I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard Cradle and wish there were a way to have _both_ an external keyboard _and_ a serial connection to a host at the same time - the ultimate portable terminal. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 10:24:43 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP Message-ID: <20000921152443.32806.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On September 20, Tim Harrison wrote: > > > www.ndx.net/pocketpdp > > > > Someone has GOT to make a PalmOS version of this! I refuse to use CE > > devices, but this would RULE on PalmOS. :) > > Damn...if someone DOES port that to PalmOS, I'll go out and BUY one > of those infernal doesn't-recognize-simple-roman-handwriting-like-my- > righteous-but-discontinued-newton-does-so-well Palm boxes. If you did, it would _crawl_. The CPU in the Palm is an enhanced 68000 processor running at a fairly low speed (16Mhz? 20Mhz?). I think it would be cool, too, but intolerably slow. Have you fired up any flavors of PDP UNIX on it? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Sep 21 11:13:10 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <20000921152443.32806.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Ethan Dicks wrote: > If you did, it would _crawl_. The CPU in the Palm is an enhanced 68000 > processor running at a fairly low speed (16Mhz? 20Mhz?). I think it would > be cool, too, but intolerably slow. Slow? I've programmed an Atari ST with a 68000 at 8MHz, and it only had 512kbytes of memory! According to the O'Reilly book, on the Palm Pilot "Memory is Extremely Limited". Well, mine's got 2Mbytes, which isn't limited at all compared to the Atari... Now, I wonder how well my old 6502 simulator will run on the Palm? It was coded in 68000 assembler on an old DTACK Grounded board in about 1986. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From hansp at digiweb.com Thu Sep 21 12:17:31 2000 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: OT but Re: PocketPDP References: <20000921152249.42931.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39CA42AB.E77CE164@digiweb.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard Cradle and wish there were a way to have > _both_ an external keyboard _and_ a serial connection to a host at the same > time - the ultimate portable terminal. You might take a look at he soon to be available Agenda they claim that they can connect a keyboard and a serial port and the software is all opensource Linux. I have one on order ;-) Regards -- Hans B Pufal From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Thu Sep 21 11:22:10 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c023e8$18913c10$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > Speaking of the front panel of these machines, has anyone here added more > lights to the front panel in order to have a real set of blinking lights? > Something tells me that doing so shouldn't be too difficult a hack. I happened to get my hands on the DEC blueprint for this that I could copy out for those of you with more spare time right now than I... John A. From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 21 10:25:14 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <20000921152249.42931.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard Cradle and wish there were a way to have > _both_ an external keyboard _and_ a serial connection to a host at the same > time - the ultimate portable terminal. What you need is a Psion Series 5. Screw PalmPilots, and screw WinCE handhelds. The Psion Series 5 or 5MX with EPOC kicks ass all over those sorry little calculators. Mine has been loaded with a telnet client and a web browser on top of the terminal emulator that was already loaded in. Coupled with my wireless modem, I use it to telnet into my server at home or surf the web, and I've used it to program PBX's through the serial port. Some of this I have done while driving down the freeway (not recommended). There's even a Linux port for it (ARM processor). So when you boys are done playing with your little toys, why don't you consider graduating up to a REAL handheld? :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Sep 21 11:29:30 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: OT but Re: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <39CA42AB.E77CE164@digiweb.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:17:31 +0100 Hans B Pufal wrote: > You might take a look at he soon to be available Agenda > Agenda? Surely they can't call it that! It's been done before, by the Microwriter AgendA in about 1987. I have a photo on my own WWW page: http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/org.htm The original AgendA used a chord keyboard and was styled in very '80s matt black. 6303 CMOS processor and a whopping 128kbytes on the larger model. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From harrison at timharrison.com Thu Sep 21 11:40:38 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: <39C8B898.6DCA9D8A@timharrison.com> <39C8CE54.175AD60F@timharrison.com> <39C95FE3.E34B3E3E@timharrison.com> <003301c023a1$e001e020$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <39CA3A06.62BA64F8@timharrison.com> Geoff Roberts wrote: > Lawns are a novelty that soon wears off. Trust me. You will find > yourself > pushing a noisy lawnmower around or manicuring the weeds when you'd > rather be tinkering. I wouldn't mind pushing a noisy lawn mower around. In fact, I'd have to get one of those nifty lawn tractors. > pickup to you yanks, with a Ack! I'm Canadian. :) Don't mix me in with that lot. ;) I only lived and worked there for two years. > And I thought a second floor flat was bad. Do you need oxygen? > A high rise around here is defined as any building with more than 1 > floor. > (I live in a modest 4 BR single floor home attached to my shop these > days) It's a thirty floor building (with rooftop pool -- I hate swimming, but my wife doesn't) in the midst of Toronto. A particulary expensive midst, I might add. Great view, no space. Two bedroom apartment, with one bedroom converted into a computer lab. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From cem14 at cornell.edu Thu Sep 21 11:43:37 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: <20000921152249.42931.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39CA3AB9.DF196E74@cornell.edu> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I've done some interesting things with mine... I used to have a VT100 > emulator on it that I have used as a console for an H-11 and to configure > Cisco Routers (I had to remove it to make room for GPS data for a California > to Ohio flight and I haven't put it back yet). > > I have a Happy Hacking Keyboard Cradle and wish there were a way to have > _both_ an external keyboard _and_ a serial connection to a host at the same > time - the ultimate portable terminal. I've used my hp320LX exactly for this. I don't particularly like CE, but I must admit that I like having something that fits more or less in your pocket, can work as a serial terminal, connect to your ISP, check a POP server... I just need a decent, free version of telnet for it. The free ones are all buggy :-(. I don't like the Pilot because I really need a keyboard. Carlos. -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14@cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 From kdavis at ndx.net Thu Sep 21 12:04:27 2000 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <20000921152443.32806.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Sep 21, 2000 08:24:43 AM Message-ID: <200009211704.e8LH4Rg05279@bender.ndx.net> > If you did, it would _crawl_. The CPU in the Palm is an enhanced 68000 > processor running at a fairly low speed (16Mhz? 20Mhz?). I think it would > be cool, too, but intolerably slow. > Yeah, I agree. It's somewhat slow on CE devices which have faster processors. But this is partly due to the overhead of the way I hacked the IO. Another issue is the memory size. Most Palms have like 4meg??? I would expect not much room left over for a disk image. Most of the images I use are RL02 which are 10megs. Still a port would be easy. Anyone want to buy me a copy of Codewarrior? :-) > Have you fired up any flavors of PDP UNIX on it? > No, just RT-11 and RSTS. I'm working on a Windows version (hopefully with multiple terminals in different windows). It's mostly the same code and I've been able to boot Unix 6th edition with it no problem. Kirk From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 12:30:44 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Memory and the 68K (was Re: PocketPDP) Message-ID: <20000921173044.96325.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Honniball wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Ethan Dicks > wrote: > > If you did, it would _crawl_. The CPU in the Palm is an enhanced 68000 > > processor running at a fairly low speed (16Mhz? 20Mhz?). I think it would > > be cool, too, but intolerably slow. > > Slow? I've programmed an Atari ST with a 68000 at 8MHz, > and it only had 512kbytes of memory! And I've programmed many an Amiga similarly equipped. I was thinking back to running the PDP-11 emulator on a SPARC1 - it was substantially slower than the real thing, but barely tolerable. The Palm would have to be slower than that. > According to the > O'Reilly book, on the Palm Pilot "Memory is Extremely > Limited". Well, mine's got 2Mbytes, which isn't limited at > all compared to the Atari... Yes, but remember that the 2Mb is all of your storage _and_ running memory. It's like running an Amiga with 2Mb total, no hard disk, no floppies, just a RAM disk. When I was using my Palm for an aviation GPS, I had 1.5M of data files for a 38K program. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rachael_ at gmx.net Thu Sep 21 13:35:26 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: <582.299T1314T11752842rachael_@gmx.net> My friend has found a NCR Tower32 machine, seems to be build around a motorola 68020 board with a vme bus, it has a number of dsub 15pin ports on tha back, seems to be somekind of terminal interface. Does anyone have any infomation about such a machine ? regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Sep 21 13:06:53 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009211704.e8LH4Rg05279@bender.ndx.net> from "Kirk B. Davis" at "Sep 21, 2000 10:04:27 am" Message-ID: <200009211806.e8LI6sZ19406@bg-tc-ppp744.monmouth.com> > No, just RT-11 and RSTS. I'm working on a Windows version (hopefully with > multiple terminals in different windows). It's mostly the same code and I've > been able to boot Unix 6th edition with it no problem. > > Kirk Slick... What the Windows version needs is a front panel with blinkenlights and switches like the Doug Jones PDP8 emulator (which has been ported to X11 and Mac...). Which Windows versions will you support? Imagine an 11/45 running emulated V6 Unix or V7 with a couple of simulated TTY's. Perhaps even a sound card with 110 baud sounding kachunks. Or an RT11 with VT11/VR17 with the VT running Teco and Spacewars and the lightpen emulated with the mouse. The possibilities are endless. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 21 12:20:02 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: <28.aedb75e.26fa9c63@aol.com> from "BobMcPhail@aol.com" at Sep 20, 0 07:04:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000921/ac24de2c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 21 12:40:19 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Sep 21, 0 12:46:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1389 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000921/43bd8344/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Sep 21 13:05:18 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? Message-ID: <20000921110518.A994@loomcom.com> Hi folks, Does anyone have an archive of Xerox Alto/Star software? I'm curious about OS, applications, research work, whatever. I don't own an Alto, but I'm concerned about losing the software anyway. I'd really love to see a Xerox Alto emulator project started, and obviously some working original software archives are kind of vital for that endeavor. While we're at it, does anyone have system schematics or system architecture documentation? Those seem somewhat relevant as well :) -Seth From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 13:29:58 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) Message-ID: For what it's worth... I've driven a 3/4 ton pickup with an 11/34A, VAX 11/750, 11/84 (in dual wide cabinet), NCR Tower 32/600, Terak, 2 TU80's, and a PDP-8/i in it.. theres a way to get odd looks... Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From cem14 at cornell.edu Thu Sep 21 13:40:42 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: IBM AS/400 has been dumped Message-ID: <39CA562A.830B5860@cornell.edu> Today, an AS/400 system has been thrown in a dumpster with a forklift. I can't possibly lift it out of the dumpster, but, if anybody has any use for some of the cards, I'll try to recover some of them. Some of the numbers in the cards are 2615, 6112, 2626, 6140, 2619, 6501, 2592, 3119, 2700 (two), 2800 (two), 2639 (many). The machine is located in the dumpster behind the Hotel school. With a little luck, it might remain there a couple of days, but the weather looks menacing this afternoon. And I know some metal scrapers tour the dumpsters regularly. Carlos. -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14@cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 From kdavis at ndx.net Thu Sep 21 13:51:47 2000 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009211806.e8LI6sZ19406@bg-tc-ppp744.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Sep 21, 2000 02:06:53 PM Message-ID: <200009211851.e8LIplP19079@bender.ndx.net> > > > No, just RT-11 and RSTS. I'm working on a Windows version (hopefully with > > multiple terminals in different windows). It's mostly the same code and I've > > been able to boot Unix 6th edition with it no problem. > > > > Kirk > > Slick... > > What the Windows version needs is a front panel with > blinkenlights and switches like the Doug Jones PDP8 emulator (which has > been ported to X11 and Mac...). > > Which Windows versions will you support? > > Imagine an 11/45 running emulated V6 Unix or V7 with a couple of > simulated TTY's. Perhaps even a sound card with 110 baud sounding > kachunks. > LOL! This is great. I'm going to do it! Now all I need is teletype samples :-) I'd thought of doing the 11/45 panel. I know that some of the OS's allow you to compile in options to use the lights and make them look cool while running (RSTS for one). I've never seen 11/45 panel running though. The version I'm working on will run on Win98/ME/NT/2000, etc. Kirk From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Sep 21 14:20:30 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009211851.e8LIplP19079@bender.ndx.net> from "Kirk B. Davis" at "Sep 21, 2000 11:51:47 am" Message-ID: <200009211920.e8LJKVE19750@bg-tc-ppp68.monmouth.com> > > What the Windows version needs is a front panel with > > blinkenlights and switches like the Doug Jones PDP8 emulator (which has > > been ported to X11 and Mac...). > > > > Which Windows versions will you support? > > > > Imagine an 11/45 running emulated V6 Unix or V7 with a couple of > > simulated TTY's. Perhaps even a sound card with 110 baud sounding > > kachunks. > > > > LOL! This is great. I'm going to do it! Now all I need is teletype samples :-) > I'd thought of doing the 11/45 panel. I know that some of the OS's allow > you to compile in options to use the lights and make them look cool while > running (RSTS for one). I've never seen 11/45 panel running though. No problem... I'll look through my PDP pictures and try to scan and color print copies. The Doug Jones emulator is a trip. I single stepped the 8 and did front panel toggle in pgms using the switches. Felt just like a real 8E. I know I have the 11/70 book... I'll look for the 11/45. The 11/70 would be a bit more difficult to do (more switches and lights and the Unibus Map stuff on the emulator and second set of registers (Did anyone ever write an OS that swapped register sets on the PDP11...? When I went to Concurrent, after DEC, they did all their goodies with up to 15 sets of registers). > > The version I'm working on will run on Win98/ME/NT/2000, etc. > > Kirk > > Great. Got all my disk images ready. Perhaps the front panel stuff would port back to the Unix version for Xwindows... Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 21 14:20:08 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB14A@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Hi folks, > > Does anyone have an archive of Xerox Alto/Star software? I'm curious > about OS, applications, research work, whatever. I don't own an Alto, > but I'm concerned about losing the software anyway. I'd really love to > see a Xerox Alto emulator project started, and obviously some working > original software archives are kind of vital for that endeavor. > > While we're at it, does anyone have system schematics or system > architecture documentation? Those seem somewhat relevant as well :) Here's a link: http://www.spies.com/~aek/alto/index.html On a page: http://www.spies.com/~aek/orphanage.html that links to the first, link, the author implies he's got a work-in-progress emulator started. He has some docs also. What I don't think exists anymore is a readable pack containing Smalltalk-72, Smalltalk-74, or Smalltalk-76. Supposedly, Smalltalk-78 was implemented only on the portable Notetaker. Smalltalk-80 would most likely have been implemented for the Alto, but by then, much faster Xerox workstations were available, and people stuck on Altos would have thought of themselves as second-class citizens. Archives do exist of Smalltalk-80; however, they are largely unavailable. Fortunately, Alan Kay, Dan Ingalls, and others who created ST80 at PARC have duplicated the effort now that they work for Disney. The revamped ST80 is called Squeak, and you can download a version of Squeak for almost every platform. For more information on Squeak, check out this link: http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/ Regards, -doug q From djenner at halcyon.com Thu Sep 21 15:37:12 2000 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: <200009211851.e8LIplP19079@bender.ndx.net> Message-ID: <39CA7178.EC9D2D1D@halcyon.com> I compiled this simulator a couple of years ago for 32-bit Windows. If anyone wants a copy, let me know and I will email it to you. It has just a plain-vanilla console. Dave "Kirk B. Davis" wrote: > > > > > > No, just RT-11 and RSTS. I'm working on a Windows version (hopefully with > > > multiple terminals in different windows). It's mostly the same code and I've > > > been able to boot Unix 6th edition with it no problem. > > > > > > Kirk > > > > Slick... > > > > What the Windows version needs is a front panel with > > blinkenlights and switches like the Doug Jones PDP8 emulator (which has > > been ported to X11 and Mac...). > > > > Which Windows versions will you support? > > > > Imagine an 11/45 running emulated V6 Unix or V7 with a couple of > > simulated TTY's. Perhaps even a sound card with 110 baud sounding > > kachunks. > > > > LOL! This is great. I'm going to do it! Now all I need is teletype samples :-) > I'd thought of doing the 11/45 panel. I know that some of the OS's allow > you to compile in options to use the lights and make them look cool while > running (RSTS for one). I've never seen 11/45 panel running though. > > The version I'm working on will run on Win98/ME/NT/2000, etc. > > Kirk From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 21 16:14:50 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009211704.e8LH4Rg05279@bender.ndx.net> from "Kirk B. Davis" at Sep 21, 2000 10:04:27 AM Message-ID: <200009212114.OAA07348@shell1.aracnet.com> > No, just RT-11 and RSTS. I'm working on a Windows version (hopefully with > multiple terminals in different windows). It's mostly the same code and I've > been able to boot Unix 6th edition with it no problem. > > Kirk Hey, if you're going to add that to a Windows version you'd better add ethernet support! Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 21 16:19:09 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009211851.e8LIplP19079@bender.ndx.net> from "Kirk B. Davis" at Sep 21, 2000 11:51:47 AM Message-ID: <200009212119.OAA08002@shell1.aracnet.com> > The version I'm working on will run on Win98/ME/NT/2000, etc. > > Kirk Does that include Windows NT running on a DEC Alpha? If so.... Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 21 16:20:38 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009211920.e8LJKVE19750@bg-tc-ppp68.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Sep 21, 2000 03:20:30 PM Message-ID: <200009212120.OAA08199@shell1.aracnet.com> > The Doug Jones emulator is a trip. I single stepped the 8 and did > front panel toggle in pgms using the switches. Felt just like a real > 8E. The Mac -8/e emulator does this also, and it's great! I actually used the Mac emulator to help me get my -8/m up and running as I had no clue as to what the tests should look like on a functional machine. Zane From sean at techcare.com Thu Sep 21 16:21:21 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 References: <582.299T1314T11752842rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <045701c02411$e368e400$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Dahl Pind" To: "classic computers" Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 2:35 PM Subject: NCR tower32 > My friend has found a NCR Tower32 machine, seems to be > build around a motorola 68020 board with a vme bus, it > has a number of dsub 15pin ports on tha back, seems to be > somekind of terminal interface. > > Does anyone have any infomation about such a machine ? > > regards Jacob Dahl Pind > > > Public Pgp key available on request > -------------------------------------------------- > = IF this computer is with us now... = > =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= > = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = > -------------------------------------------------- > > Well, I don't know a whole lot about the machine, but basically: * It's built around a pretty basic 68020 system with all the trimmings (68851 and 68881 both, I think). * It's probably got one or two hard disks hanging off of a rather boring ST-506 ("MFM") interface, along with a tape drive as well. * The 15 pin ports are proprietary serial ports for the NCR terminals. I don't know if they can be broken out to something more standard or if the system needs anything special that the NCR terminals provide. * I gather it runs a pretty much stock version of UNIX; I think this system is Pre-AT&T buyout. * NetBSD mentions it on their "suggested ports" page. There's like a paragraph there that sums up the machine pretty well, too. -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 21 15:23:49 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: <20000921110518.A994@loomcom.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, sjm wrote: > Hi folks, > > Does anyone have an archive of Xerox Alto/Star software? I'm curious > about OS, applications, research work, whatever. I don't own an Alto, > but I'm concerned about losing the software anyway. I'd really love to > see a Xerox Alto emulator project started, and obviously some working > original software archives are kind of vital for that endeavor. > > While we're at it, does anyone have system schematics or system > architecture documentation? Those seem somewhat relevant as well :) Hey, Seth. A local guy in the Bay Area is currently working on related matters. He's writing a MESA emulator. He's borrowed a couple manuals from me. I have applications for the 6085, and also some manuals for that machine and the 8010. Of course, as always, it's buried somewhere, but I'm slowly unearthing everything as I move it to the new location. Anyway, if you ever want to come over and dig around for this sort of stuff, you're welcome. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mlnealey at earthlink.net Thu Sep 21 16:37:30 2000 From: mlnealey at earthlink.net (Mike Nealey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: TI Explorer... Message-ID: <39CA7F99.C553E6D3@earthlink.net> Hi All, I have a need for info on the TI Explorer. Anyone have anything on this? It was an add in LISP board for Mac computers. I am specifically looking for docs and any software. Thanks! Mike N. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 16:54:21 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: <20000921215421.13484.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jacob Dahl Pind wrote: > My friend has found a NCR Tower32 machine, seems to be > build around a motorola 68020 board with a vme bus, it > has a number of dsub 15pin ports on tha back, seems to be > somekind of terminal interface. It's an oddball RS-232 connector. > Does anyone have any infomation about such a machine ? Such things are out there... I wouldn't mind knowing myself - I have a Multibus NCR tower that I've never powered on (it's in a friend's attic). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Sep 21 16:58:08 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB14A@tegntserver.tegjeff.com>; from dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com on Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 03:20:08PM -0400 References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB14A@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20000921145808.A1427@loomcom.com> > Here's a link: > > http://www.spies.com/~aek/alto/index.html > > On a page: > > http://www.spies.com/~aek/orphanage.html > > that links to the first, link, the author implies he's got a > work-in-progress emulator started. He has some docs also. Thanks very much, this is exactly what I was looking for! I should have thought to ask Al Kossow, I remember now he used to have a huge collection of Xerox stuff. The hardware guide is most useful. Now I'd like to find a copy of the ROMs used in the Alto and Alto II (I can only imagine the copyright headache... oh well) -Seth From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Sep 21 17:04:58 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 01:23:49PM -0700 References: <20000921110518.A994@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <20000921150458.B1427@loomcom.com> On Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 01:23:49PM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > Hey, Seth. > > A local guy in the Bay Area is currently working on related matters. He's > writing a MESA emulator. He's borrowed a couple manuals from me. Is that Al Kossow? > I have applications for the 6085, and also some manuals for that machine > and the 8010. Of course, as always, it's buried somewhere, but I'm slowly > unearthing everything as I move it to the new location. > > Anyway, if you ever want to come over and dig around for this sort of > stuff, you're welcome. Thanks, Sellam! I may take you up on the kind offer at some point. I've never written anything as low-level as an emulator (I'm strictly an applications guy), but this is the sort of thing I've become most interested in recently. The Xerox stuff is enormously cool from a GUI perspective, it makes me think I should at least do a Xerox Star GUI theme for Gnome/GTK/Enlightenment as a start (I know, it's a different machine, but I admire the look and feel). -Seth From kdavis at ndx.net Thu Sep 21 17:06:04 2000 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009212114.OAA07348@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Sep 21, 2000 02:14:50 PM Message-ID: <200009212206.e8LM64204510@bender.ndx.net> You know what would be really cool.... Is a simulated network. Have the simulator bring up multiple PDPs under different windows (all in one app), then have them talk to each other via device connected to a common simulated network :-) Kirk > > > No, just RT-11 and RSTS. I'm working on a Windows version (hopefully with > > multiple terminals in different windows). It's mostly the same code and I've > > been able to boot Unix 6th edition with it no problem. > > > > Kirk > > Hey, if you're going to add that to a Windows version you'd better add > ethernet support! > > Zane > > > From steverob at hotoffice.com Thu Sep 21 17:16:32 2000 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: > > My friend has found a NCR Tower32 machine, seems to be > > build around a motorola 68020 board with a vme bus, it > > has a number of dsub 15pin ports on tha back, seems to be > > somekind of terminal interface. > > > > Well, I don't know a whole lot about the machine, but basically: > > * The 15 pin ports are proprietary serial ports for the NCR > terminals. I don't know if they can be broken out to something > more standard or if the system needs anything special that > the NCR terminals provide. > I had a NCR tower with the 15 pin ports and didn't have TOO much trouble connecting a terminal. Basically, I was able to trace the leads back to the drivers (1488 / 1489) and determine which pins were for output and which were for input. It's basic RS232 stuff except the pinouts are funky. Steve Robertson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000921/4210de82/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 21 17:31:57 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009212206.e8LM64204510@bender.ndx.net> from "Kirk B. Davis" at Sep 21, 2000 03:06:04 PM Message-ID: <200009212231.PAA18539@shell1.aracnet.com> > You know what would be really cool.... Is a simulated network. > Have the simulator bring up multiple PDPs under different windows > (all in one app), then have them talk to each other via device > connected to a common simulated network :-) > > Kirk Actually I was thinking of it talking to the real network. That way if I was running say RSX-11M with DECnet under the emulator I could connect to it from a VMS box. Or if running RT-11 with TCP/IP I could then connect to the Sunsite archive (whatever they're calling it this week) via FTP. Zane From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Sep 21 17:41:39 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Apple IIe data Help References: <200009200414.e8K4EZ518946@grover.winsite.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20000920081651.031fe330@pc> Message-ID: <013101c0241d$1d823d20$c0701fd1@default> He's 76 and says he does not know what format and will have to ask his son. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Apple IIe data Help > The book data is stored in which word processor's format? > > - John > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Sep 21 18:46:24 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Solbourne, doesn't anybody love it? In-Reply-To: <20000921215421.13484.qmail@web9504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Not that they don't look like fun, but I don't think I am going to keep the two Solbourne computers I found this week. Both are very clean, complete with creamy white matching power cords, one perfect keyboard, each of two others missing a key or two (should make a second complete one, but I didn't look that hard), 13w3 to 3 BNC video cables, 3 Solbourne optical mice and pads. They boot, show 40 MB of ram, one had two drives, the other just one, and there lies the catch. Those are parts I can use, 16 4 MB 30 pin simms, a couple banks of sipps, 500 MB scsi drive, and even the nice 13w3 to bnc cables. If you want a Solbourne, email me in the next week and I will temper my mercenary instincts. First choice goes to a collector wanting the whole system, second to anyone who wants parts, the rest to eBay. From kdavis at ndx.net Thu Sep 21 17:47:54 2000 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <200009212119.OAA08002@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Sep 21, 2000 02:19:09 PM Message-ID: <200009212247.e8LMlsP21771@bender.ndx.net> > > > The version I'm working on will run on Win98/ME/NT/2000, etc. > > > > Kirk > > Does that include Windows NT running on a DEC Alpha? If so.... > Really it should just be a recompile... From at258 at osfn.org Thu Sep 21 18:17:04 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a particularly big car) that also > contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar > Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc. > Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect > large computers... You put all THAT in a 2CV? M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 18:27:31 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: <200009202346.e8KNkgQ05436@bender.ndx.net> <39C9531B.9255E661@timharrison.com> <14793.22376.615014.973412@phaduka.neurotica.com> <39C9601D.A81F9225@timharrison.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Harrison" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:10 PM Subject: Re: PocketPDP > And if you knew the joy we "Palm Pilots" get from owning one, you'd have > three already. ;) > > Tim Harrison > Network Engineer I know I can't live without my Palm IIIe... most people call their Palms their second brain... my Palm is my first :) My school's yearbook wants a photograph of me using it at school... but then rumour might get out that I'm a nerd! (A well known fact at my school, and everybody loves me all the more for it :) ) Kevin From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 21 18:16:42 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Sep 21, 0 07:17:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 420 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000922/83f6aed5/attachment.ksh From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 18:38:16 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Honniball" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 12:13 PM Subject: Re: PocketPDP >According to the > O'Reilly book, on the Palm Pilot "Memory is Extremely > Limited". Well, mine's got 2Mbytes, which isn't limited at > all compared to the Atari... My friend's mother has a Palm IIIf?? It's a III something, can't remember the letter after it. It has 8 megs of RAM. Not at all limited :) > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > Kevin From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Sep 21 19:51:06 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: OT?: NeXTstation color with *all* accessories--what's it worth? In-Reply-To: <39C66CE2.4997ADBA@timharrison.com> References: Message-ID: >Since MacOS X has become a popular conversation piece, NeXT prices have >skyrocketed. When I bought my NeXTstation Color Turbo 33 (w/ 21" >monitor), I got it complete for USD$350 (including shipping). I've seen >them go for much higher, but their actual worth is probably somewhere >around there. As for market demand, it's most likely still high. Scrap place near me just shredded about a dozen Next boxes and monitors (mega pixel). Unfortunately by the time I saw them it was too late. From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Sep 21 18:57:56 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) References: Message-ID: <39CAA084.267AD7B5@mainecoon.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a particularly big car) that also > > > contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar > > > Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc. > > > Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect > > > large computers... > > > > You put all THAT in a 2CV? > > You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How? That was my initial reaction -- I didn't think that the 2CV had the hydropneumatic weirdness of its younger and larger brethern, but then it came to me: The 2CV is so fragile that if one were to load all that stuff into one its wheels would splay outwards until the frame rails were resting on the ground -- hence self-leveling ;-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Sep 21 20:04:50 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: References: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Sep 21, 0 07:17:04 pm Message-ID: >You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How? If you put enough in, eventually its level, just no suspension travel. From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Sep 20 19:09:43 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP Message-ID: <031c01c02361$3d2775d0$a652e780@L166> >Actually I was thinking of it talking to the real network. That way if I >was running say RSX-11M with DECnet under the emulator I could connect to it >from a VMS box. Or if running RT-11 with TCP/IP I could then connect to the >Sunsite archive (whatever they're calling it this week) via FTP. > > Zane That would be messy. RSX and others like to play with the MAC add. For the commercial emulator I am familiar with it requires a second Ethernet card for the emulators use if you also want to use NT networking at the same time. Looks good. I sure wish I had some time to play like that. Dan From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 21 19:38:47 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP In-Reply-To: <031c01c02361$3d2775d0$a652e780@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Sep 20, 2000 08:09:43 PM Message-ID: <200009220038.RAA01613@shell1.aracnet.com> > That would be messy. RSX and others like to play with the MAC add. For the > commercial emulator I am familiar with it requires a second Ethernet card > for the emulators use if you also want to use NT networking at the same > time. > > Looks good. I sure wish I had some time to play like that. > > Dan > It's playing with the MAC address to get it to conform to the DECnet Node number right? At least this is/was done with the DECnet/Linux software. It might be possible to do this and have it not conflict with NT. Not sure though if Windows is that smart/adaptable (can't believe I'm insinuating that it might be). Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Sep 21 19:46:22 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Solbourne, doesn't anybody love it? In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Sep 21, 0 03:46:24 pm" Message-ID: <200009220046.RAA12188@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Not that they don't look like fun, but I don't think I am going to keep the > two Solbourne computers I found this week. Both are very clean, complete > with creamy white matching power cords, one perfect keyboard, each of two > others missing a key or two (should make a second complete one, but I > didn't look that hard), 13w3 to 3 BNC video cables, 3 Solbourne optical > mice and pads. They boot, show 40 MB of ram, one had two drives, the other > just one, and there lies the catch. Those are parts I can use, 16 4 MB 30 > pin simms, a couple banks of sipps, 500 MB scsi drive, and even the nice > 13w3 to bnc cables. > > If you want a Solbourne, email me in the next week and I will temper my > mercenary instincts. First choice goes to a collector wanting the whole > system, second to anyone who wants parts, the rest to eBay. Where are you at and what are they running? I'm in Colton (San Bernardino) right now. I think you're in So Cal somewhere, so I might be able to pick one of them up. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The moon may be smaller than the Earth, but it's farther away. ------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Sep 21 19:48:41 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Solbourne, doesn't anybody love it? In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Sep 21, 0 03:46:24 pm" Message-ID: <200009220048.RAA08114@stockholm.ptloma.edu> By the way, that last message went to the list since the reply bounced :-( -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why, I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------------- From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Sep 22 19:03:02 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: References: <28.aedb75e.26fa9c63@aol.com> from "BobMcPhail@aol.com" at Sep 20, 0 07:04:02 pm Message-ID: <39CB90C6.11933.713871@localhost> > > > > Ok, I need some assistance. I'm working on restoring an older > > Japanese computer that requires a male to male 8 PIN DIN cable to > > link with some peripherals. Does anyone have a good source for > > cables like this? I know I can probably solder something together, > > but I was hoping > > I think you may well have to make up your own cables... 8 pin DIN > connectors were not that widely used > > What's the machine? Some Japanese machines (the Epson HX20 springs to > mind) used an 8 pin DIN socket for the RS232 port. You may need to > wire up the equivalent of a null-modem cable. > > There are 2 types of 8 pin DIN (not mini-DIN) plug. One has the outer > 7 pins in the same circular arc -- it's a 7 pin DIN plug with an extra > pin in the middle. The other has the first and last outside pins (the > ones near the 'gap') offset outwards. Needless to say these 2 > connectors don't interchange, and I've seen both of them used on the > same computer. > > -tony > > I've had an Epson HQX-10 with K-B and CP/M 2.2 disk for some time but have never found a monitor for it. It has the 8-pin DIN socket for both the K-B and the monitor. Any idea what the monitor pin-out might be ? Incidentally it has a 25pin connector for RS232. Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 20:30:16 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Solbourne, doesn't anybody love it? References: Message-ID: Yeah, ok, I want the whole thing :) Still have it? What would shipping/pricing be to zip 45150? Thanks, Kevin From foo at siconic.com Thu Sep 21 19:33:34 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: <20000921150458.B1427@loomcom.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, sjm wrote: > On Thu, Sep 21, 2000 at 01:23:49PM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Hey, Seth. > > > > A local guy in the Bay Area is currently working on related matters. He's > > writing a MESA emulator. He's borrowed a couple manuals from me. > > Is that Al Kossow? Nope. I forget his name but he used to work at Xerox. A younger guy (in his 30s). > I've never written anything as low-level as an emulator (I'm strictly > an applications guy), but this is the sort of thing I've become most > interested in recently. The Xerox stuff is enormously cool from a GUI > perspective, it makes me think I should at least do a Xerox Star GUI > theme for Gnome/GTK/Enlightenment as a start (I know, it's a different > machine, but I admire the look and feel). I don't think any GUI today matches the functionality of the Star GUI. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Sep 21 21:34:56 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 In-Reply-To: "Jacob Dahl Pind"'s message of "21 Sep 00 19:35:26 +0100" References: <582.299T1314T11752842rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200009220234.TAA38883@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jacob Dahl Pind" wrote: > My friend has found a NCR Tower32 machine, seems to be > build around a motorola 68020 board with a vme bus, it > has a number of dsub 15pin ports on tha back, seems to be > somekind of terminal interface. > > Does anyone have any infomation about such a machine ? Believe it or else, about three years ago I posted the following to the old list. Thanks go to the retrobytes.org folks for putting it into a webby archive that is searchable by Google. CharlesII@nwohio.nwohio.com wrote: > I found out from a person in the area that low density DB15 > ports if not used for Ethernet are used for a VGA terminal. On NCR gear? News to me, but what do I know? Should you happen to run across NCR Tower serial ports on DA15 connectors, the adapter cable that brings this out to a male DB25 connector looks like this. Both hoods have the following molded into them: One side: TERMINAL 1308-C036-0152 The other side: 006-0089359 U.L. E40323 Ohming it out yields: DA15 DB25 1 - frame ground 1 ------ 3 2 ------ 5 3,12 ------ 4 4 ------ 6,8 9 ------ 2 10 ------ 20 11 ------ 7 I used to use this cable to hook up an HP 700/22 to an NCR Tower's console port. I can't remember whether I had it plugged into a null-modem-like thing or just a gender bender at the 700/22 end, but there must have been something there because both the cable and the terminal have male connectors. Hope this helps someone. -Frank McConnell From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Sep 20 22:29:03 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PocketPDP Message-ID: <038601c0237c$66e5d8b0$a652e780@L166> >It's playing with the MAC address to get it to conform to the DECnet Node >number right? At least this is/was done with the DECnet/Linux software. It >might be possible to do this and have it not conflict with NT. Not sure >though if Windows is that smart/adaptable (can't believe I'm insinuating >that it might be). > > Zane NT be smart. Surely you jest. I have never tried to get around it yet. One of those things I want to do if I ever get some play time. I am currently over a week behind and I might catch up if I don't answer the phone for the next week+. Dan From donm at cts.com Thu Sep 21 23:12:55 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a particularly big car) that also > > > contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar > > > Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc. > > > Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect > > > large computers... > > > > You put all THAT in a 2CV? > > You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How? > > -tony > Twice per oscillation, Tony. - don From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 22 04:41:34 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Solbourne, doesn't anybody love it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Yeah, ok, I want the whole thing :) Still have it? What would >shipping/pricing be to zip 45150? > >Thanks, >Kevin Several replies, which is great, "maybe" I could even track down the third unit another guy went off with. Sorry for the list traffic, no idea why my email might bounce, except this is a cable company. ;( Private replies to all Friday. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Sep 22 04:38:43 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: VT525 Message-ID: <00Sep22.103844bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> It's the colour variant of the VT520 and is only 4-ish years old. Housed in a Multia-style case and should take a standard SVGA monitor. You can probably still find info about them on Compaq's website in the Digital portion - go to search then 'search digital'. > -----Original Message----- > From: Olminkhof [mailto:jolminkh@nsw.bigpond.net.au] > Sent: 21 September 2000 14:06 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: VT525 > > > I've found this neat little box labelled a VT525. > What is this? > > Maybe I can keep it and use it as a terminal when I eventually get my > PDP11/23 going? > > It has a module missing from the front and doesn't do > anything except click > when keys are pressed. > > Hans > From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Fri Sep 22 05:48:01 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: TI Explorer... In-Reply-To: Mike Nealey's message of "Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:37:30 -0700" Message-ID: >>>>> "Mike" == Mike Nealey writes: Mike> Hi All, I have a need for info on the TI Explorer. Anyone Mike> have anything on this? It was an add in LISP board for Mac Mike> computers. I am specifically looking for docs and any Mike> software. I have a TI explorer here at the AI lab. No one uses it for centuries... There are dozens of manuals for it, and dozens of QIC tapes. I tried to read a couple of them, but they are not tar or cpio format. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From at258 at osfn.org Fri Sep 22 07:27:48 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's quite surprising to realise the space there is in an MGB-GT. Actually, I have put more computers in one than my friend's Chrysler LeBaron could carry. I've also hauled an Austin 1300 engine/transmission assembly in one, but that \/\/as just a bit hairy. On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a particularly big car) that also > > > contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar > > > Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc. > > > Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect > > > large computers... > > > > You put all THAT in a 2CV? > > You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How? > > -tony > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From mbg at world.std.com Fri Sep 22 07:55:59 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: pdp-8 looking for new home... ! Message-ID: <200009221255.IAA25970@world.std.com> As usual, contact the poster, not myself... - - - - - Some old stuff is looking for a new home before it goes to the shredder: Mail me if you have interest, I will then forward any orders to the owner. Location: Davos in Switzerland/Europe Presen owner: Meteological Observatory, used for lab data capturing/processing State: Was running last time it saw power. The VT100, one PDP8/A, one TU56 I have seen running 4 weeks ago. Hardware: 2 * DEC PDP8/A, 20-Slot (big) Omnibus case, core memory (I do not know how much), with the optional octal front pannel 2 * DEC RK05, removable disk drives 2.4MByte 1 * DEC RL01, removable disk drive 5MByte 1 * DEC RL02, removable disk drive 10MByte 2 * DEC TU56, dual tape drives (small reel tapes) 1 * big reel tape drive, no manufacturer/model written on it, just lable: 9 track 800/1600 BPI 45IPS see ASCII art below 1 * chassis 19", 54cm wide, 76cm deep, (+19cm deet), 127cm high 2 * chassis 19", 54cm wide, 76cm deep, (+19cm feet), 180cm high 2 * Calcomp 836, plotter, ca 2m wide, 30cm deep, 20 cm high beige plastic ends, blue metal middle 1 * Centronics 6085, printer, ca 1m x 1m x 1m There is also 1 * DEC VT100, terminal 80x24, but I am having that :-) I may manage to find space for one PDP/8A with 1/2 the 2 disk drives and 1 TU56, but that is still open. If someone else want both of them (or 2 people want one), they can have them, I am actually into PDP11s (the system was billed as a 11, but turned out to be 2 8s). Software: - OS/8 - rts/8 Manuals: - Operation Manual PDP8/A - User Manual FPP12A - Maintenance Vol3 - RK05 Maintenance - RL01 Users Guide - Teletype 33ASR (no hardware, has been scrapped years ago) - Calcomp above - Centronics above ASCII of 9 track tape drive: --------------------------- | | | |.--. .-------. | | || |/ \ | | || | / \ | | || |`-' | | o o | lamps "Monitor" "Diag" || | o | | o | lamp "WT EN" || | | | o o | lamps "BOT" "EOT" || \ / | | || \ / | o # | lamp "Load" + square button || `-------' | o # | lamp "Online" + square button || | o # | lamp "Rew" + square button || .-------. | o # | lamp "Reset" + square button || // \ | | || // \ | o # | 3 lamps + rocker switch || || | | 8 # | "PE" "Remote" "NRZ" || || 0 | | | (this if my sketch is not wrong) || || | | | || | / | | || |\ / | o | lamp + |`--' `-------' | # | rocker switch "Power" | | | --------------------------- Sorry that my small pencil sketch drawn 4 weeks ago (just before going on holiday) is not better. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic - - - - - From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Fri Sep 22 09:31:27 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: DEC Vax 750 times three (in NYC) In-Reply-To: <200009220038.RAA01613@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <000801c024a1$cbb204f0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Hi, I inquired to this guy about his 750... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=443090878 He said he has three total. Here's his reply. "It is a VAX 11/750 computer 2'5"W 3'4"H 2'6"D I actually have 3 of them so if you want 1 you can take your pick & if you want more than 1 we can work it out. I also have a variety of disk drives and tape drives that originally were connected to these systems. If you are interested in them let me know. Joseph Reinman Brooklyn, NY 11230-6312 Tel (718) 627-0819 e-mail josephr@govdata.com" I'm making this information available to the list since I'm full at the moment. John A. From dlinder at uiuc.edu Fri Sep 22 10:29:04 2000 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I don't think any GUI today matches the functionality of the Star GUI. I've always been interested in the early Xerox work as well.. what sort of feeatures did they include that made it so cutting edge? (other than being the first GUI, the first laser printer, the first ethernet, ....) - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher - SCS Materials Chemistry Lab Systems Administrator - General Chemistry Computer-Equipped Wet Labs Systems Administrator From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Sep 22 10:35:30 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives Message-ID: Xerox 6085 in Kansas City I happened to mention to one of my son's schoolmates parents that I recycled computers and now I am the lucky recipient of a complete Xerox 6085 system including external 5 1/4 floppy, complete manuals, software, hardware, every thing except the Xerox 4045 laser printer. The previous owner was the original owner. If anyone needs copies of the manuals I will make copies for cost. I found when I hooked it all up and powered up I get a 4 digit code in the upper left corner. I suspect that the system battery may have died. I have 6 large boxes of manuals and software can anyone give me a hint in which manual the hardware troubleshooting guide is found? Is there a guide or index to all the manuals? I remember the great gray or orange walls of DEC manuals, but at least there was an excellent index. Mike McFadden mmcfadden@cmh.edu computer hound, I sniff out the good stuff All musings are my own, no one else thinks like or for me. From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 22 10:11:46 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > It's quite surprising to realise the space there is in an MGB-GT. > Actually, I have put more computers in one than my friend's Chrysler LeBaron > could carry. I've also hauled an Austin 1300 engine/transmission assembly in > one, but that \/\/as just a bit hairy. I've committed some pretty zany hauls in my time. The latest was transporting about 15 Apple ][+'s and //e's complete with monitors (some monochrome, some big Amdek color), disk drives, and ImageWriter printers (only 2) in a two-door Honda Civic. I have pictures to show the magnitude of ridiculousness. http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_1.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_2.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_3.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/Unloaded_Civic.jpg The last picture shows the contents laid out. This was a lot easier in my old 4-door Honda. Now I drive a nice new Camry but I'm not ruining the leather interior with this sort of nonsense :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 22 10:20:04 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Dan Linder wrote: > I've always been interested in the early Xerox work as well.. what sort of > feeatures did they include that made it so cutting edge? (other than > being the first GUI, the first laser printer, the first ethernet, ....) Xerox PARC did a very cool thing a couple years ago and held "The Last Xerox Star Demo". About 600 people (mostly PARC employees but it also generated a lot of outside interest) showed up. It was about an hour and a half long, showing off the features and functionality of the Star environment. I don't remember many specifics, but one thing that did catch my attention was its ability to display mathematical formulas in their more natural form, i.e. when a division operation was typed in it would put the numerator on top and the divisor on bottom with a horizontal line in between, and it did this automatically. You could also dynamically re-map the keyboard to get different symbol sets or even different language characters. It would show the new keyboard layout on the display so you could use it for reference. The interface seemed more intuitive in some cases, very logically organized overall. There was some rawness to it but overall it struck me as being more advanced than what MS and Apple are offering even today. There were some elements that were not as advanced, but there had been 15 years of development effort between the Star and Windows, and Windows still lagged. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 22 10:21:38 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, McFadden, Mike wrote: > I found when I hooked it all up and powered up I get a 4 digit code in the > upper left corner. I suspect that the system battery may have died. I have > 6 large boxes of manuals and software can anyone give me a hint in which > manual the hardware troubleshooting guide is found? Is there a guide or > index to all the manuals? Yeah, look in the "Troubleshooting Guide" :) Seriously, there is one manual for troubleshooting that has the codes for both the 6085 and the 8010 and describes what they indicate. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Sep 22 07:21:02 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: <403.300T107T8011943rachael_@gmx.net> Hello Frank McConnell Thanks for posting the wireing of that terminal cable Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Sep 22 07:12:59 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: <704.300T2960T7924976rachael_@gmx.net> >I had a NCR tower with the 15 pin ports and didn't have TOO much trouble >connecting a terminal. Basically, I was able to trace the leads back to the >drivers (1488 / 1489) and determine which pins were for output and which >were for input. >It's basic RS232 stuff except the pinouts are funky. okey I`ll have a look at it, a soon I have brougt some of those 15pin conectors. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Sep 22 07:10:26 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: <796.300T1310T7902670rachael_@gmx.net> > * The 15 pin ports are proprietary serial ports for the NCR > terminals. I don't know if they can be broken out to something > more standard or if the system needs anything special that > the NCR terminals provide. Thank you very much for your infomation. There is a small box on top of tower32, it`s a switch bow it has a 9pin and a 15pin in and a 25pin dsub out, I guess it must be somekind of converte to allow a normal serial port to connect to it. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 22 12:45:54 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: <39CB90C6.11933.713871@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 22, 0 05:03:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1073 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000922/1c703b5a/attachment.ksh From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Fri Sep 22 15:37:23 2000 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: RK05 transport tips ? Message-ID: <00092222454000.00801@jos> Hello list, I might be getting some of the Davos' PDP8 stuff that Megan mentioned on the list . The 19 " racks will have to be transported flat, i.e. on their side. Any tips on how to handle the RK05, RL01 and RL02 ? Is there some sort of locking mechanism on the R/W heads ? I sure would hate ruining a I/O devices that I will not easilly find again... Jos Dreesen. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Sep 22 14:01:52 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39CBC8C0.14314.2EBC74D1@localhost> > > It's quite surprising to realise the space there is in an MGB-GT. > > Actually, I have put more computers in one than my friend's Chrysler LeBaron > > could carry. I've also hauled an Austin 1300 engine/transmission assembly in > > one, but that \/\/as just a bit hairy. > I've committed some pretty zany hauls in my time. The latest was > transporting about 15 Apple ][+'s and //e's complete with monitors (some > monochrome, some big Amdek color), disk drives, and ImageWriter printers > (only 2) in a two-door Honda Civic. I have pictures to show the magnitude > of ridiculousness. > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_1.jpg > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_2.jpg > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_3.jpg > http://www.siconic.com/crap/Unloaded_Civic.jpg > The last picture shows the contents laid out. :) This looks a bit like my last transport of some stuff from John Z.s Storage after we unpacked a not to be mentioned 20' container from LA :) > This was a lot easier in my old 4-door Honda. Now I drive a nice new > Camry but I'm not ruining the leather interior with this sort of nonsense Serious ? You're joking ! Anyway, tow good weeks to all of you, I'm off for VCF. Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Sep 22 14:04:31 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: vt220 or better terminal Message-ID: <200009221904.NAA18315@calico.litterbox.com> Does anyone have a vt220 or better (a color 240 would be great) terminal they want to sell? I need a console for my vaxstation. Alternately, since they seem to still be available, does anyone have anything good or bad to say about vt540s? I live in Colorado Springs, CO (USA) and I understand shipping will be significant. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Fri Sep 22 15:05:18 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > I've had an Epson HQX-10 with K-B and CP/M 2.2 disk for some > > time but have never found a monitor for it. It has the 8-pin DIN > > socket for both the K-B and the monitor. > > Any idea what the monitor pin-out might be ? > > If it's the same as a QX10, then the pinout (from the hardware techincal > manual) is : > > 1: +12V power output to monitor > 2: Ground > 3: Not used > 4: Hsync > 5: Vsync > 6: Ground > 7: Ground > 8: Video signal > > What the manual doesn't show is the layout of the pins, and there are at > least 2 conventions (one for each type of the DIN connector). I think you > may be reduced to identifying signals with a voltmeter and 'scope > (finding the power and ground signals would be a good start, the others > won't be that hard to distinguish). See below for the QX-10/16 cable pinouts. - don > The same manual gives the specs of the monitor (and schematics of the > monitor FWIW). They are : > > Hfreq : 19.3kHz > Vfreq : 45.8Hz > (Dot clock : 16.667MHz, but that one doesn't affect the monitor). > > Syncs are TTL level, the video signal is >4V for full brightness, 1.0-3.5V > for half-brightness, 0-0.8V for black. > > -tony > > QX VIDEO PINOUTS Video pin-outs for: Video pin-ins for: QX-10 or QX-16 QX-10 / 16 monochrome monitor *+12V / Intensity 1------------4 +12V / Intensity* Signal Ground 2--------|---5 Signal Ground - not used - 3 |---6 Signal Ground Horiz. Synch. 4------------3 Horiz. Synch. Vert. Synch. 5------------2 Vert. Synch. Red 6 Green 7 7 - not used - %Video / Blue 8------------1 Video Frame Ground E------------E Frame Ground Video pin-outs for: Video pin-ins for: QX-16 CR-6700 monitor *+12V / Intensity 1------------6 Intensity* Signal Ground 2------------1 Signal Ground - not used - 3 Horiz. Synch. 4------------8 Horiz. Synch. Vert. Synch. 5------------9 Vert. Synch. Red 6------------3 Red Green 7------------4 Green %Video / Blue 8------------5 Blue Frame Ground E *The QX-10 supplies the 12V to power the QX-10 monitor. The QX-16 supplies an Intensity signal. %When a monochrome monitor is attached, the Video signal is only available on the Blue. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Sep 22 16:12:13 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000922161213.3487e03e@mailhost.intellistar.net> A couple of weeks ago I found a box in a scrap yard with a half height 8" floppy drive it in. The box was marked "Gen-Rad" and looked like part of a old piece of test equipment. I picked up the box just for the floppy drive and brought it home. Today I started to take it apart and found that it was made by Scientific Micro Systems and has a number of DEC cards in it as well as a Maxtor XT-1085 hard drive. My question is what is it and weather it's worth keeping or is it just good for parts? Here's the details; It's marked "Gen Rad 2295 Central Station" on the front. The back is marked "Scientific Micro Systems" "model MDX01170". It's about 9" w x 11" h x 17" deep. On the back it has eight DB-25m ports on the back. They're marked "TZ0" through "TZ3", "LP0" and "TT0" through "TT2". Inside it has a DEC M7957 quad board, a half size board made by Sigma Information Systems Inc (connected to the TT* and LP0 ports), a half size "Q RAM 11" board made by Clear Point (memory?), a DEC M 8186 half size card, and a half size SMS card (1002001-0001/0004220-0001) that is also connected via a jumper to the last card, a full quad size SMS card (1001939-0001/0003770-0001). The last card has ribbon cables that connect to the floppy and hard drive. Does anyone know what it is? Is it worth anything? FWIW I haven't tried to connect a terminal to it yet but it appears to power up and boot. Joe From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 22 15:33:23 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000922161213.3487e03e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000922133130.00c37eb0@208.226.86.10> It is a PDP-11/23. (essentially) And yes, I think it is a bit of treasure since it has a non-DEC combined floppy/hard drive controller so you can probably make it into a very nice RT-11 system. I'm thinking about building one of those in one of the standalone DEC backplanes. It would be very cool. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 22 14:50:28 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: RK05 transport tips ? In-Reply-To: <00092222454000.00801@jos> from "jos.mar" at Sep 22, 0 10:37:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1771 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000922/6542de29/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Sep 22 15:33:54 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Old caps: Recondition, or replace? Message-ID: <20000922133354.A1325@loomcom.com> I'm working on a power supply that has four old big honkin' capacitors, two 10,000uF 25V and two 95,000uF 15V electrolytics, dating from 1977. The question is, should I repair them (reconditioning with a variac... or lightbulbs in series, since I don't have a variac :) or should I just consider them most likely lost to time and attempt to replace them with more modern parts? The power supply is otherwise fine, and in fact on a whim, I was able to power it up and get steady power from it, no hint of a problem. I just worry about the poor caps after being off for so long. Opinions? -Seth From foo at siconic.com Fri Sep 22 14:39:11 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000922161213.3487e03e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Joe wrote: > Here's the details; It's marked "Gen Rad 2295 Central Station" on the > front. The back is marked "Scientific Micro Systems" "model MDX01170". I think I might actually have the manuals for this thing. And if I'm not mistaken, it's some sort of PDP-11 compatible system. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 22 15:48:21 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Q-bus front panels? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000922133130.00c37eb0@208.226.86.10> References: <3.0.1.16.20000922161213.3487e03e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000922134709.00ca6730@208.226.86.10> On the subject of front panels, has anyone ever seen a Q-bus panel? Looking at the bus specs it seems like such a thing should be doable, wondering if anyone actually had done it. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 22 16:29:50 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000922161213.3487e03e@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Sep 22, 2000 04:12:13 PM Message-ID: <200009222129.OAA24025@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone know what it is? Is it worth anything? FWIW I haven't tried > to connect a terminal to it yet but it appears to power up and boot. > > Joe It's a PDP-11. Is it worth saving, well the cards are at a minimum. I must confess that I personally do not care for SMS boxes, but do like to move the cards to a real DEC chassis :^) Zane From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Fri Sep 22 16:31:10 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:34 2005 Subject: HX-20 printer ribbon Message-ID: <009b01c024dc$706312c0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Hi, Does any one of you know of a source for the ribbon for the HX-20? The rollers on mine got pulverised. Any good way to rebuild them? what kind of material could I use? Thanks Francois See you at the VCF!!! From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 22 16:32:39 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Q-bus front panels? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000922134709.00ca6730@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 22, 2000 01:48:21 PM Message-ID: <200009222132.OAA24356@shell1.aracnet.com> > On the subject of front panels, has anyone ever seen a Q-bus panel? Looking > at the bus specs it seems like such a thing should be doable, wondering if > anyone actually had done it. > > --Chuck > ISTR that DEC made one for it's FE's. I believe that Megan has one, and I might have the manual for it (I've not had time to figure out exactly what the manual is for). Zane From dburrows at netpath.net Thu Sep 21 16:47:01 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: RK05 transport tips ? Message-ID: <034801c02417$54882470$a652e780@L166> >For the RLs, there's a similar clamp somehwere on the positioner. I think >you have to take off the access cover (4 screws on top), lift the door at >the back edge slightly and release the catch. Then take the door off. >Lift the R/W PCB in its screening box (middle of the back section of the >drive) and flip it over towards the right side of the unit. Then examine >the head positioner for a locking clamp and move it so as to lock the heads. Correction: There is a small plate in the front (acessable with pack removed) help in place with 1 small screw that you swing up in front of the heads. There are also 2 or 3 screws that you install in the bottom of the drive to lock the motor in place. Dan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 22 16:46:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Old caps: Recondition, or replace? In-Reply-To: <20000922133354.A1325@loomcom.com> from "sjm" at Sep 22, 0 01:33:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1747 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000922/9867d816/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 22 16:48:52 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: HX-20 printer ribbon In-Reply-To: <009b01c024dc$706312c0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> from "FBA" at Sep 22, 0 04:31:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 782 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000922/fef522f6/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Sep 22 17:16:37 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? In-Reply-To: Trash or Treasure? (Joe) References: <3.0.1.16.20000922161213.3487e03e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <14795.55877.595038.417294@phaduka.neurotica.com> Sounds like a control computer for a GenRad automated pc-board testing system. They used various pdp11 machines to run their board testing machines. I'd say it's a pretty nice score. -Dave McGuire On September 22, Joe wrote: > A couple of weeks ago I found a box in a scrap yard with a half height 8" > floppy drive it in. The box was marked "Gen-Rad" and looked like part of a > old piece of test equipment. I picked up the box just for the floppy drive > and brought it home. Today I started to take it apart and found that it was > made by Scientific Micro Systems and has a number of DEC cards in it as > well as a Maxtor XT-1085 hard drive. My question is what is it and weather > it's worth keeping or is it just good for parts? > > Here's the details; It's marked "Gen Rad 2295 Central Station" on the > front. The back is marked "Scientific Micro Systems" "model MDX01170". > It's about 9" w x 11" h x 17" deep. On the back it has eight DB-25m ports > on the back. They're marked "TZ0" through "TZ3", "LP0" and "TT0" through > "TT2". Inside it has a DEC M7957 quad board, a half size board made by > Sigma Information Systems Inc (connected to the TT* and LP0 ports), a half > size "Q RAM 11" board made by Clear Point (memory?), a DEC M 8186 half size > card, and a half size SMS card (1002001-0001/0004220-0001) that is also > connected via a jumper to the last card, a full quad size SMS card > (1001939-0001/0003770-0001). The last card has ribbon cables that connect > to the floppy and hard drive. > > Does anyone know what it is? Is it worth anything? FWIW I haven't tried > to connect a terminal to it yet but it appears to power up and boot. > > Joe From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 22 18:02:23 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Q-bus front panels? Message-ID: <009301c024ea$5fbd69d0$650b9a8d@ajp166> From: healyzh@aracnet.com >ISTR that DEC made one for it's FE's. I believe that Megan has one, and I >might have the manual for it (I've not had time to figure out exactly what >the manual is for). > > Zane There were a limited number built and tested with FEs but they were not retained in service. The primary problem was they didn't have what would come around 10 years later, cheap, small hard disk. Allison From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 22 18:40:53 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: NCR tower32 Message-ID: Y'know, I have an NCR Tower 3460 aka 32/600, and I have 3 cables, only need one.. I'd give ya a nice assembled NCR one... Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Sep 22 06:30:36 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? Message-ID: <20000922.063038.-46965.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:12:13 -0500 Joe writes: > A couple of weeks ago I found a box in a scrap yard with a half > height 8" floppy drive it in. The box was marked "Gen-Rad" and looked like > part of a old piece of test equipment. I picked up the box just for the floppy > drive Actually, this was a good score; mostly because many of the non-dec floppy/hard disk subsystems could be used to format RX01 and RX02 floppies (standard RX drives can't do this-- you have to buy the media pre- formatted from DEC!). I've come across a few GenRad systems; most were UniBUS (PDP-11/44, 11/04, etc.) I found one that used to have a PDP-8! Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Sep 23 00:39:46 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Xerox Alto/Star archives? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39CBDFB2.3598.5E5EA09@localhost> > Xerox PARC did a very cool thing a couple years ago and held "The Last > Xerox Star Demo". About 600 people (mostly PARC employees but it also > generated a lot of outside interest) showed up. > > It was about an hour and a half long, showing off the features and > functionality of the Star environment. I don't remember many > specifics, but one thing that did catch my attention was its ability > to display mathematical formulas in their more natural form, i.e. when > a division operation was typed in it would put the numerator on top > and the divisor on bottom with a horizontal line in between, and it > did this automatically. You could also dynamically re-map the > keyboard to get different symbol sets or even different language > characters. It would show the new keyboard layout on the display so > you could use it for reference. > > The interface seemed more intuitive in some cases, very logically > organized overall. There was some rawness to it but overall it struck > me as being more advanced than what MS and Apple are offering even > today. > > There were some elements that were not as advanced, but there had been > 15 years of development effort between the Star and Windows, and > Windows still lagged. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue > and Danger My Micom 2000 from 1977 also had a similiar ability. They called it "subscript" and "superscript". It was superior in it's abilities to anything I've seen up to the mid-eighties. While it wouldn't draw curves it's graphics abilities allowed connecting points automatically. Using the subscript or superscript commands you could do a proper fraction or power of # and also footnote numbers in smaller script. I still can"t do that with this Pegasus editor I'm using now. It used a very fast(for it's day) Qume daisy-wheel printer. This companies first production model shipped in July 1975 the month that Gates and Allen inked the first agreement with MITS for MS-Basic and Dick Hauser had only just opened the first computer store. By the time Jobs and Woz had figured out the cicuitry for their board in 76, Micom had shipped 180 units worth $2 million. At it's height it had 1100 employees The innovative owner-partner Stephen Dorsey had earlier formed and then sold AES. Philips acquired a chunk of Micom in 78 and then the rest in 83. Dorsey went on to found Voice and Data Systems a leader in packet technology. His 2 previous start-ups had annual sales of $200 million. I also wonder whether he played might have played any role in the Mitel start-up which was the basis for Cowpland's Corel since he was such a biggy in Canadian electronics technology. Apparently NASA among others had a bunch of them. There might be a few still floating around in Florida. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Sep 23 00:39:46 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 was:Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39CBDFB2.31254.5E5EA36@localhost> > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I've had an Epson HQX-10 with K-B and CP/M 2.2 disk for some > > > time but have never found a monitor for it. It has the 8-pin DIN > > > socket for both the K-B and the monitor. > > > Any idea what the monitor pin-out might be ? > > > > If it's the same as a QX10, then the pinout (from the hardware > > techincal manual) is : > > I've been working with too many Macs lately. :^)) > > > > What the manual doesn't show is the layout of the pins, and there > > are at least 2 conventions (one for each type of the DIN connector). > > I think you may be reduced to identifying signals with a voltmeter > > and 'scope (finding the power and ground signals would be a good > > start, the others won't be that hard to distinguish). > > See below for the QX-10/16 cable pinouts. > - don > > > Syncs are TTL level, the video signal is >4V for full brightness, > > 1.0-3.5V for half-brightness, 0-0.8V for black. > > > > -tony > > > QX VIDEO PINOUTS > > Video pin-outs for: Video pin-ins for: > QX-10 or QX-16 QX-10 / 16 monochrome monitor > > *+12V / Intensity 1------------4 +12V / Intensity* > Signal Ground 2--------|---5 Signal Ground > - not used - 3 |---6 Signal Ground > Horiz. Synch. 4------------3 Horiz. Synch. > Vert. Synch. 5------------2 Vert. Synch. > Red 6 > Green 7 7 - not used - > %Video / Blue 8------------1 Video > Frame Ground E------------E Frame Ground > > Video pin-outs for: Video pin-ins for: > QX-16 CR-6700 monitor > > *+12V / Intensity 1------------6 Intensity* > Signal Ground 2------------1 Signal Ground > - not used - 3 > Horiz. Synch. 4------------8 Horiz. Synch. > Vert. Synch. 5------------9 Vert. Synch. > Red 6------------3 Red > Green 7------------4 Green > %Video / Blue 8------------5 Blue > Frame Ground E > *The QX-10 supplies the 12V to power the QX-10 monitor. The > > QX-16 supplies an Intensity signal. > %When a monochrome monitor is attached, the Video signal is > only available on the Blue. > > Thanks guys. I wasn't aware it had color monitor ability. With it's svelte low-profile and 2 FDDs a pretty classy machine for its day. I imagine it would need a color card for the CR-6700. Damn ! It provided power to the monitor. An added complication. While I have a lot of multi-syncs and configurable monitors most have their own PSUs and I wonder about the interrelationship in the QX-10 circuity. I acquired the K-B separately and looking at Tom Carlsons pics I thought I had the wrong K-B even tho it had the same connector. Turns out there were 2 versions as I understand it, one for Valdocs and one for CP/M. The connector for the K-B has 1 center pin and 7 around the outside the same as the monitor. One troubling note is that the QX-10 came with a separate coiled cable, with 2 male connectors, each with the little tabs for pulling it out. The k-b I acquired later has an attached cable with a similiar tab. The coiled cable ends insert easily into the K-b socket on the QX-10 but the K-B cable only with difficulty. The obverse applies to the monitor socket. Keeping in mind Tony's recent comments on variations in 8-pin DIN connectors, I compared the 2, but could find no dfference except that the shell on the k-b cable DIN could be a fraction smaller. I had thought originally that it could be slightly out-of-round but now I am wondering if I do have the right Epson K-B. The K-B is labelled m.Q503-A. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Sep 23 00:21:13 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Trash or Treasure? References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000922133130.00c37eb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <39CC3DC8.4DC50A0A@idirect.com> >Chuck McManis wrote: > It is a PDP-11/23. (essentially) And yes, I think it is a bit of treasure > since it has a non-DEC combined floppy/hard drive controller so you can > probably make it into a very nice RT-11 system. I'm thinking about building > one of those in one of the standalone DEC backplanes. It would be very cool. Jerome Fine replies: Based on the information that the box is an SMS Qbus system with a combined hard/floppy disk controller, I thought that I might mention the following information. I also have one which I pulled the boards from. Originally, it also contained a dual CPU (probably an 11/73 as opposed to the 11/23) along with some memory. The KEY point is that the 8" floppy was connected to the same controller emulation as the hard drive. HOWEVER, the emulation for the hard drive, AS WELL AS THE FLOPPY, is MSCP or DU. And since the floppy drive is also DOUBLE-SIDED, the use of such 8" floppy media is allowed as well. Now I can't seem to remember using single-density media in the 8" floppy drive, but standard DEC 8" double-density media compatible with a DEC RX02 floppy drive are what the 8" floppy drive in my SMS system use and read and write. So, if your system is the same, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BOOT A STANDARD DEC RX02 FLOPPY on the SMS system unless the boot code uses the MSCP device driver interface. Under RT-11, that is easy to set up even on the DEC RX02 floppy drive. The RT-11 command: "COPY/BOOT:DU DY0:RT11FB.SYS DY0:" will change the BOOT DEVICE DRIVER from "DY:" to "DU:". Note the use of the argument ":DU" after the BOOT switch. Note that the floppy drive was: SET DU1: PORT=0,UNIT=1,PART=0". Another point. Assuming that you even have a driver for an RX03 for RT-11 and an RX03 floppy drive that is 3rd party compatible, it is likely that under DY(X).SYS that a double sided RX03 media will use the full first side of the media followed by the full second side - at least this is what DEC seemed to intend doing under V4.0 of RT-11 before the optional code was removed by V5.0 of RT-11 for the DY.MAC file. (Perhaps Megan can verify that aspect from V4.0 to V5.0 of RT-11.) However, DEC never produced an RX03 floppy and RT-11 never distributed correct code for a double-sided floppy, although there were a number of 3rd party RX03 drives produced and a number of 3rd party enhancements for the DY(X).SYS device driver which allowed double-sided use of the 8" RX03 media based on the above usage of first one complete side followed by the other. Indeed, I am presently using a version of DYX.SYS under V5.4G of RT-11 for the DSD 880/30 which includes a single 8" double-sided floppy drive. This version of DYX.SYS not only allows the use of double- sided media, but also includes a bounce buffer when the user buffer is in physical memory above the 256 KByte boundary. The bounce buffer is required since the controller for the DSD 880/30 is only an 18 bit controller and V5.4G of RT-11 allows up to the full 4 MBytes of physical memory under RT-11. The final point is that assuming someone is able to produce a double- sided 8" floppy with the DYX.SYS noted above, the SMS emulator for the MSCP implementation of the 8" floppy drive is quite happy with single-sided floppy media from a DEC RX02 or 3rd party compatible. BUT on the SMS MSCP emulation on the built-in controller, the 8" floppy drive for double-sided media for the system that I have reads BOTH tracks on both sides of the double-sided floppy media BEFORE switching cylinders and reading the next pair of tracks (on alternate sides of the media). For this reason, double sided media from an RX03 floppy drive using the DY(X).SYS device driver under RT-11 may (in my case was not) be compatible with the use of 8" double-sided floppy media on the SMS box with the MSCP emulation since the data on the media is not in sync after the first track (17 blocks?). If anyone has any questions because I did not explain the problem with double-sided media correctly, please ask again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Sep 23 09:26:48 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: RK05 transport tips ? In-Reply-To: <200009230522.AAA20296@opal.tseinc.com> from "classiccmp-digest" at Sep 23, 2000 12:22:45 AM Message-ID: <200009231426.KAA27188@drs-esg.com> >From: "jos.mar" > >Hello list, > >I might be getting some of the Davos' PDP8 stuff that Megan >mentioned on the list . >The 19 " racks will have to be transported flat, i.e. on their side. >Any tips on how to handle the RK05, RL01 and RL02 ? >Is there some sort of locking mechanism on the R/W heads ? >I sure would hate ruining a I/O devices that I will not easilly find again... > >From alt.sys.pdp8 thread http://x76.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=668383000&CONTEXT=969718419.890961925&hitnum=0 You can see the RK05 head lock at the top of the round positioner housing above the black fan in this picture. It is the golden L bracket with one hex head bolt through it. I don't have a RL0x so can't comment on it. http://www.pdp8.net/rk05/pics/topright.shtml or http://www.pdp8.net/rk05/pics/topright.shtml?large for a big picture which it is more visible in. The drive has a cover with a bunch of quarter turn fasteners which I don't seem to have in any of the picture online. When I moved a rack flat I removed everything up high or heavy in it to get it managable to tip into the truck. After you start tipping is not the time to figure out that its still too heavy to control. A RK05 is 110 lbs David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Sep 23 14:51:52 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 was:Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: <39CBDFB2.31254.5E5EA36@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 22, 0 10:39:46 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4484 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000923/e7c36b8b/attachment.ksh From william at seniorsix.org Sat Sep 23 16:58:53 2000 From: william at seniorsix.org (Bill) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> To all: I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. Hewlett Packard is less than worthless for support . . . is there a list for vintage HPs or can anyone here help?? Thanks in advance. Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Sep 23 17:31:20 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> from Bill at "Sep 23, 2000 02:58:53 pm" Message-ID: <200009232231.e8NMVKZ12479@bg-tc-ppp35.monmouth.com> > To all: > > I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work > wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. Hewlett Packard is less than worthless > for support . . . is there a list for vintage HPs or can anyone here help?? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bill > > > OK -- I've got some 130mhz Vectra's at work... pretty standard PC. What's the question? Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 20:03:06 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Old caps: Recondition, or replace? In-Reply-To: <20000922133354.A1325@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <20000924005755.DBMJ27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I'd run the thing. Just keep an eye on the ps for failures as you would any collectable piece. Electrolytics do dry out but do so under load usually. My usual rule is not to fix it if it works well. 'Fixing' a working piece of gear is oxymoronic. Still, I'm sure the peanut gallery has something to say about preventative maintainance and I'm sure they are right..... regards, TheTechnoid In <20000922133354.A1325@loomcom.com>, on 09/23/00 at 09:03 PM, sjm said: >I'm working on a power supply that has four old big honkin' capacitors, >two 10,000uF 25V and two 95,000uF 15V electrolytics, dating from 1977. >The question is, should I repair them (reconditioning with a variac... or >lightbulbs in series, since I don't have a variac :) or should I just >consider them most likely lost to time and attempt to replace them with >more modern parts? The power supply is otherwise fine, and in fact on a >whim, I was able to power it up and get steady power from it, no hint of >a problem. I just worry about the poor caps after being off for so long. >Opinions? >-Seth -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 20:10:01 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: HX-20 printer ribbon In-Reply-To: <009b01c024dc$706312c0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <20000924010449.DKCB27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> If you are inventive you can use rollers from another printer. I rebuilt the drive roller on my Data General 6311 cart tape drive with an output roller from an Epson Action Printer 3250. One trick I found usefule during this rebuild was a disposable ballpoint pen. I used the cheapy kind that have a cap and a removable nose. First, slide the roller on the pen's body without any lubricant. Then remove the nose. Place the face of the barrel of the pen on the shaft and slide the roller on. That simple. Do NOT use lubricants or glues. They are not useful and will be messy. In <009b01c024dc$706312c0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com>, on 09/23/00 at 09:10 PM, "FBA" said: >Hi, >Does any one of you know of a source for the ribbon for the HX-20? The >rollers on mine got pulverised. Any good way to rebuild them? what kind >of material could I use? >Thanks >Francois >See you at the VCF!!! -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 20:16:15 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: <20000924011109.DQDJ27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Good God. If you can't handle a 90mhz pentium box then you need another line of work. I will be the first, but is there anyone else out there to man the fireing squad? Does this guy actually CHARGE MONEY for his services. Rape is what I'd call it. Kill yourself and save society the trouble. In <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com>, on 09/23/00 at 09:16 PM, Bill said: >To all: >I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work >wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. Hewlett Packard is less than >worthless for support . . . is there a list for vintage HPs or can >anyone here help?? >Thanks in advance. >Bill -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 20:26:51 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: <20000924012423.DXZX27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com>, on 09/23/00 at 09:26 PM, Bill said: >To all: >I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work >wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. I doubt you can work any wonder. Hewlett Packard is less than >worthless for support . . . You aren't far from HP in this regard. is there a list for vintage HPs or can >anyone here help?? There are, but vintage machines are not included in your question. >Thanks in advance. Thank you for not charging for your services any longer. Bag at the local store or pump gas. Most of us would be so humilated by the prospect of your question to even pose it. Instead we would solve our problem and be done. Please confine your questions to subjects worthy of this august group of folk. I am ashamed for you. regards -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 20:33:14 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: <20000924013247.EDQW27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Without bothering you all too much, I thought it might be worth knowing that Chrissy and I were married on Sept. 9 2000. It was a beautiful day/time and I love her very much. Naked pictures to follow - NOT! We may post some photos of the ceremony as time allows and if no objections to the posts are found. Very off topic. Sorry everyone. Thank you all for your intelligent support and for your support in general. I am impressed with you all and hope we can grow this group much. Preferably without hanging ourselves with folks trying to jumper thier 486 boards with overdrive processors.... L. Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 23 20:44:02 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <005a01c025c9$46f5ec30$f50e9a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >Good God. If you can't handle a 90mhz pentium box then you need another >line of work. Be kind the box is easy it's making winders run that is the real majik. ;) Don't laugh I have two P90s and P100-S at work as regular line system! I find the older boxes easy to work with but... Sometimes when you need data like is the ram FPM or EDO the book (or vendor support) can save a lot of grief and time. Also some of the boards have no markings as to what jumper does what. Allison From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Sep 23 20:55:15 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <005a01c025c9$46f5ec30$f50e9a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Sep 23, 2000 09:44:02 pm" Message-ID: <200009240155.e8O1tFV00455@bg-tc-ppp712.monmouth.com> > From: THETechnoid@home.com > > > >Good God. If you can't handle a 90mhz pentium box then you need another > >line of work. > > > Be kind the box is easy it's making winders run that is the real majik. > ;) > > Allison > Oh, Windows ugh.. The 133 I've got's running Apache on FreeBSd as the dept. webserver. Anyway... It did run Win95 on it until I gave it the BSD exorcism. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 23 20:59:42 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: I got married! Message-ID: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >Without bothering you all too much, I thought it might be worth knowing >that Chrissy and I were married on Sept. 9 2000. It was a beautiful >day/time and I love her very much. Well I for one think that is so on topic that congrats are a must. I do hope she supports your collecting. >Preferably without hanging ourselves with folks trying to jumper thier 486 >boards with overdrive processors.... I have a few 386 boards that meet the 10 year rule. ;) They work too. Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 21:07:43 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <005a01c025c9$46f5ec30$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000924021147.FONY27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> True. True. Windows is actually more difficult than other operating systems. I admit to being more violent in my speach than other times but -- no guts not glory. I don't even know what this fool wanted to do given his message. I suspect he is gone until he gets another 10 years or so behind the stick. If ever. Making a 90mhz p54 machine run what you want is not the focus of this group of mini-C addicts I'm sure. >Be kind the box is easy it's making winders run that is the real majik. >;) >Don't laugh I have two P90s and P100-S at work as regular line system! Sure. I've a slew of substandard boxes doing real jobs. If this message had said 'I want to do wonders with an 88k Aviion box, there would have been a better response and some real respect. >I find the older boxes easy to work with but... Sometimes when you need >data like is the ram FPM or EDO the book (or vendor support) can save a >lot of grief and time. Also some of the boards have no markings as to >what jumper does what. I doubt this fellow really understand his own nvram. Enable external cache? What is that? >Allison -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ncherry at home.net Sat Sep 23 21:29:50 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Login on VMS Message-ID: <39CD671E.E2EA0AD1@home.net> What are some of the default logins under VMS. Yes this is the first time I've played with the beast. BTW, how long does it take for DECUS to allow membership? I'm dying to get the CD's which I can't until the membership is approved. And lastly can I pop on a 3rd part SCSI drive on the uVax II? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 21:32:38 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000924023246.GJTA27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> >From: THETechnoid@home.com >>Without bothering you all too much, I thought it might be worth knowing >>that Chrissy and I were married on Sept. 9 2000. It was a beautiful >>day/time and I love her very much. >Well I for one think that is so on topic that congrats are a must. That is an awefully nice thing to say and we thank you. >I do hope she supports your collecting. She sure does and I thank God for that. She endured my Data General phase without a hiccup. She Must love me! It took five months. From pillow-talk alone, she knows more about MV machines than Tracy Kidder herself. >>Preferably without hanging ourselves with folks trying to jumper thier >486 >>boards with overdrive processors.... >I have a few 386 boards that meet the 10 year rule. ;) They work too. Yep. They sure do. The Hubble runs on an 386sx if I recall.... R. jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 23 21:34:34 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <007901c025d0$b26b5de0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> From: Bill Pechter >Oh, Windows ugh.. The 133 I've got's running Apache on FreeBSd as the >dept. webserver. Well the copmpany intranet was on a P133 (non mmx), P100-S running NT3.51 with uptimes in the 6-8months range. Do I like winders? W9x is crap and NT4 is not too bad. But if you dealing with 40 clients that have useres that barely can run MSWord never mind any unix. Running unix with win9x clints is a royal pain for many apps and a blessing for others. Also it pays the bills. My choice here is NT4 and it does work well for me. Linux hasn't what I want as a desktop system just yet though Caldara Openlinux2.3 is ok but it doesnt run GCADD6.1, Xylinx developer, Delphi-5, or Paradox or MYZ80 for examples. If I needed something I could run email, netscape WP-8 on, sure it's ok. IT's about applications investment and database investment. >Anyway... It did run Win95 on it until I gave it the BSD exorcism. Likely the W9x tendancy to eat itself is why it needed BSD. ;) I hate win9x. Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Sep 23 21:42:38 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <39CD671E.E2EA0AD1@home.net> Message-ID: <20000924023916.GQMZ27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I found myself in the same boat a while ago. DeeKuss as pronouced is The support for vax. In <39CD671E.E2EA0AD1@home.net>, on 09/23/00 at 10:42 PM, Neil Cherry said: >What are some of the default logins under VMS. Yes this is the first time >I've played with the beast. >BTW, how long does it take for DECUS to allow membership? I'm dying to >get the CD's which I can't until the membership is approved. you can call them and get your info via audio. My reg is something like WORLJ1.... Not too difficult. And lastly >can I pop on a 3rd part SCSI drive on the uVax II? Sure, if you have the right adapter. For boot, it is another thing entirely. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat Sep 23 21:56:40 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: HX-20 printer ribbon References: <009b01c024dc$706312c0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <002101c025d3$1065ad40$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> To my amazement, I just found out that Nu-Kote still manufactures then and Office depot carries them, For the reference its number: NK267P (purple). I guess they use this model of EPSON printer in a variety of cash registers. . I'm safe for a little longer. Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "FBA" To: Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 4:31 PM Subject: HX-20 printer ribbon > Hi, > Does any one of you know of a source for the ribbon for the HX-20? The > rollers on mine got pulverised. Any good way to rebuild them? what kind of > material could I use? > Thanks > Francois > See you at the VCF!!! > From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat Sep 23 22:00:25 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: I got married! References: <20000924023246.GJTA27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <002b01c025d3$96d14c40$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> > > Yep. They sure do. The Hubble runs on an 386sx if I recall.. Not anymore, they upgraded to 486s last time they were up there:) Francois Oh and congrats too and welcome to the next dimension... > > > R. > jeff > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 23 21:59:46 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <008e01c025d3$8580ecc0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >-- no guts not glory. PCs no guts. Glory is making them useful. ;) >had said 'I want to do wonders with an 88k Aviion box, there would have >been a better response and some real respect. Yes very true. I'd bet that was a broadcast to every group. >I doubt this fellow really understand his own nvram. Enable external >cache? What is that? :) the faster faster enable. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 23 21:57:17 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:35 2005 Subject: Login on VMS Message-ID: <008d01c025d3$84e521f0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> From: Neil Cherry >What are some of the default logins under VMS. Yes this is the first time >I've played with the beast. SYSTEM = ROOT FIELD is often there, nearly the same privs as system the rest are users. There are others most are not that important for general use. >BTW, how long does it take for DECUS to allow membership? A few weeks usually, sometimes it can be 6weeks. >I'm dying to get the CD's which I can't until the membership >is approved. And lastly can I pop on a 3rd part SCSI drive >on the uVax II? Yes if you have a third part SCSI controller. I have a CMD200 with a RZ56 and a Seagate Baracuda in my MVII along with an RQDX3/RD54 MFM. Allison > >-- >Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net >http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) >http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) >http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Sep 23 22:17:24 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <20000924023246.GJTA27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> References: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000923201724.009b5100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 22:32 23-09-2000 -0400, you wrote: >>From: THETechnoid@home.com > > >>>Without bothering you all too much, I thought it might be worth knowing >>>that Chrissy and I were married on Sept. 9 2000. It was a beautiful >>>day/time and I love her very much. > > >>Well I for one think that is so on topic that congrats are a must. I couldn't agree more. Especially considering that you've found an understanding mate that is supportive of your techie side. Speaking from personal experience, do you have ANY idea how rare that is? ;-) >>I do hope she supports your collecting. > >She sure does and I thank God for that. > >She endured my Data General phase without a hiccup. >She Must love me! It took five months. From pillow-talk alone, she knows >more about MV machines than Tracy Kidder herself. If she starts getting edgy about it, you can tell her to E-mail my own lifemate, Dana (kathy@bluefeathertech.com). We've been married for six-plus years now, so she knows very well what it means to be married to a budding engineer. Congrats! May you have smooth sailing. Oh, and NEVER forget your anniversary date! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ncherry at home.net Sat Sep 23 22:25:40 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS References: <008d01c025d3$84e521f0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39CD7434.A1880BCE@home.net> ajp166 wrote: > > From: Neil Cherry > > >What are some of the default logins under VMS. Yes this is the first > time > >I've played with the beast. > > SYSTEM = ROOT > FIELD is often there, nearly the same privs as system Do they have a default password? (probably SYSTEM/SYSTEM and FIELD/FIELD) > >BTW, how long does it take for DECUS to allow membership? > > A few weeks usually, sometimes it can be 6weeks. Yikes, I can't wait 6 seconds never mind 6 weeks! ;-) Yet I ride my bike to work 17 miles each way and consider myself lazy. :-) I used to go 30 miles each way. I also put no trust in technology (I use the stairs), yet want to automate the world. I like contradictions. :-) > >I'm dying to get the CD's which I can't until the membership > >is approved. And lastly can I pop on a 3rd part SCSI drive > >on the uVax II? > > Yes if you have a third part SCSI controller. I have a CMD200 > with a RZ56 and a Seagate Baracuda in my MVII along with > an RQDX3/RD54 MFM. I have a KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI adapter, will that do? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 23 21:17:41 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <20000924013247.EDQW27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Naked pictures to follow - NOT! We may post some photos of the ceremony as > time allows and if no objections to the posts are found. Very off topic. > Sorry everyone. Objections - in advance. > Thank you all for your intelligent support and for your support in > general. I am impressed with you all and hope we can grow this group much. > Preferably without hanging ourselves with folks trying to jumper thier 486 > boards with overdrive processors.... Lay off the liquor for a while, Jeff. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Sep 23 22:47:33 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS Message-ID: <000801c025da$2fe1a870$22099a8d@ajp166> From: Neil Cherry >> SYSTEM = ROOT >> FIELD is often there, nearly the same privs as system > >Do they have a default password? (probably SYSTEM/SYSTEM and FIELD/FIELD) NO! for the uninstalled system they are return/return (blank) but that is like first thing chaged as the login at that point is set to force a password change. There is a break in procedure for old systems where the password is lost. For new installs the password is set on login. >> Yes if you have a third part SCSI controller. I have a CMD200 >> with a RZ56 and a Seagate Baracuda in my MVII along with >> an RQDX3/RD54 MFM. >I have a KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI adapter, will that do? Dunno I dont have one or data on it. I'd bet it would though. For the disk however you may hae to stick to the older 1gb and under drives. the microvax-II boot knows RL, MSCP, eithernet, and can search for devices that have boot roms or act like MSCP compatable. Allison From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Sep 24 04:32:29 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: Hello Bill On 23-Sep-00, you wrote: > To all: > > I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work > wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. Hewlett Packard is less than worthless > for support . . . is there a list for vintage HPs or can anyone here help?? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bill I had the same opinion of a Compaq Deskpro 575. I just gave up and built a clone. And I'm used to having NO support -- I run Amigas here. I put them all under the classification with the Packard Bells. I don't even bother trying. > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From william at seniorsix.org Sat Sep 23 23:08:37 2000 From: william at seniorsix.org (Bill) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <20000924012423.DXZX27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> References: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923210310.00af9d08@pop3.williamgau.com> At 09:26 PM 9/23/2000 -0400, THETechnoid@home.com wrote: >Thank you for not charging for your services any longer. Bag at the local >store or pump gas. > >Most of us would be so humilated by the prospect of your question to even >pose it. Instead we would solve our problem and be done. Please confine >your questions to subjects worthy of this august group of folk. I am >ashamed for you. GOOD GOD CHRIST!! Where the holy hell did this come from!?!? I take this to mean you DON'T know a damn thing about obsolete dual processor boards?!? How about this: I have an old IBM 860 . . . what can I upgrade the memory to? What kind of solder should I use!? All this coming from some goon who lives in ASHEVILLE!? MOVE TO RALEIGH, YOU FREAK! Only on a damn listserv can the world support obsolete computer snobs. This is crazy. This list reminds me of the damn purebred Doberman Pinscher list. Heh. Christ. From donm at cts.com Sat Sep 23 23:12:56 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <20000924012423.DXZX27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > In <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com>, on 09/23/00 > at 09:26 PM, Bill said: > > >To all: > > >I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work > >wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. > > I doubt you can work any wonder. > > > Hewlett Packard is less than > >worthless for support . . . > > You aren't far from HP in this regard. > > is there a list for vintage HPs or can > >anyone here help?? > > There are, but vintage machines are not included in your question. > > >Thanks in advance. > > Thank you for not charging for your services any longer. Bag at the local > store or pump gas. > > Most of us would be so humilated by the prospect of your question to even > pose it. Instead we would solve our problem and be done. Please confine > your questions to subjects worthy of this august group of folk. I am > ashamed for you. > > regards Ah, a true southern gentleman displaying his nether side. Still under the influence of the bachelor party? - don > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Sep 23 22:41:10 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923210310.00af9d08@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: I detect a bit of tension between you two? I'll set up a boxing ring at VCF 4.0 if you two want to fight it out. I'll sell tickets, get 90% of the take, and somehow bamboozle most of the other 10% out of you (I'm a student of Don King). On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, Bill wrote: > At 09:26 PM 9/23/2000 -0400, THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > >Thank you for not charging for your services any longer. Bag at the local > >store or pump gas. > > > >Most of us would be so humilated by the prospect of your question to even > >pose it. Instead we would solve our problem and be done. Please confine > >your questions to subjects worthy of this august group of folk. I am > >ashamed for you. > > GOOD GOD CHRIST!! Where the holy hell did this come from!?!? I take this > to mean you DON'T know a damn thing about obsolete dual processor boards?!? > > How about this: I have an old IBM 860 . . . what can I upgrade the memory > to? What kind of solder should I use!? > > All this coming from some goon who lives in ASHEVILLE!? MOVE TO RALEIGH, > YOU FREAK! > > Only on a damn listserv can the world support obsolete computer > snobs. This is crazy. This list reminds me of the damn purebred Doberman > Pinscher list. Heh. > > Christ. > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 24 00:32:50 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra References: <20000924012423.DXZX27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <39CD9202.A561174C@rain.org> What kind of a crap response are you trying to pull? Your comments are distasteful to say the least!!! I think you need to think about your "responses" before you post publically to a list like this. THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > In <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com>, on 09/23/00 > at 09:26 PM, Bill said: > > >To all: > > >I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work > >wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. > > I doubt you can work any wonder. > > Hewlett Packard is less than > >worthless for support . . . > > You aren't far from HP in this regard. > > is there a list for vintage HPs or can > >anyone here help?? > > There are, but vintage machines are not included in your question. > > >Thanks in advance. > > Thank you for not charging for your services any longer. Bag at the local > store or pump gas. > > Most of us would be so humilated by the prospect of your question to even > pose it. Instead we would solve our problem and be done. Please confine > your questions to subjects worthy of this august group of folk. I am > ashamed for you. > > regards > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- From kdavis at ndx.net Sun Sep 24 00:47:58 2000 From: kdavis at ndx.net (Kirk B. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <000801c025da$2fe1a870$22099a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Sep 23, 2000 11:47:33 PM Message-ID: <200009240547.e8O5lwt05069@bender.ndx.net> > > From: Neil Cherry > > > >> SYSTEM = ROOT > >> FIELD is often there, nearly the same privs as system > > > >Do they have a default password? (probably SYSTEM/SYSTEM and > FIELD/FIELD) > > The default for FIELD on a number of sites worked at was SERVICE. From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Sep 24 01:02:02 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <20000924023246.GJTA27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> References: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000923230005.00b61e50@pacbell.net> At 10:32 PM 9/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >... >She endured my Data General phase without a hiccup. >She Must love me! It took five months. From pillow-talk alone, she knows >more about MV machines than Tracy Kidder herself. ... Congratulations. Personally, I prefer Sept 7 as a wedding date (checks inside of wedding ring where date is inscribed ... yes, sept 7). Anyway, Tracy Kidder is a HE, not a SHE. I've seen his picture on the dustjacket of a couple of his books. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From frustum at pacbell.net Sun Sep 24 01:23:10 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Tracy Kidder [Was: I got married!] In-Reply-To: <20000924023246.GJTA27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> References: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000923230534.00b52940@pacbell.net> Oh, one other thing. I read "Soul of a New Machine" back when the book was new. A few years later, in 1986, I joined a company where there was a manager by the name of Carl Alsing. I didn't recall the name until somebody told me that Carl was one of the players in that book. So I went back and reread the book and I was really impressed by Tracy Kidder's writing. When he described Carl in the book, his description was really great and captured many aspects of Carl's personality in just a few words. It gave the rest of the book much more credibility to me. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Sep 24 01:52:03 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A help needed Message-ID: OK, Since there has been all this 11/34 discussion lately, maybe I can get some help with mine? Here's the config: 11/34A CPU, FP11-F (I think thats the right name for the FPP), KY11-LA (non-keypad front panel), DL11-W, M9301-YB boot loader, RK11-D, RK05F, RK05J (no packs!), 128KW total memory (4 16K boards, and one 64K board, all are variations of MS11-?), M9302 (of course), 861C power controller, and I think an H960 or whatever rack. OK, first off, which power supply modules would go in the PSU and where? BTW, the 11/34A I have is the big one, it uses a BA11-A.. Second, anyone have a nice DL11-W cable that I could use to connect it to a VT220 or something? Third, does anyone have any spare RK05 packs? Fourth, this may be a dumb question, but which way should the grant continuity cards face, i.e. should the fingers face toward the right (the side the other boards face toward if you stand directly in front of the beastie.) Finally, does anyone have any manuals they can loan me, copy for me, part with, etc.? All I have is the RK05/RK05J/RK05F Maintenance Manual, which is about totally useless right now. And all DEC seems to have available is the 11/34 Illustrated Parts Breakdown... Oh yeah, could also use the top trim panel for the rack ;p Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Sep 24 02:06:33 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: Bill's message of "Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:58:53 -0700" References: <5.0.0.25.0.20000923145723.02937ac0@pop3.williamgau.com> Message-ID: <200009240706.AAA28094@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Bill wrote: > I don't know if this classifies as a classic, but I am trying to work > wonders with an HP Vectra 5/90 XU. Hewlett Packard is less than worthless > for support . . . is there a list for vintage HPs or can anyone here help?? No, it doesn't qualify. The rule is supposed to be "computers 10 years old and older", and even then some of us think IBM PC clones (especially the semi-proprietary ones like HP Vectras) are mostly more frustrating than interesting. But I'm feeling kindly disposed tonight, so I will point out that HP has a web site. I have no idea what you're trying to do but maybe there is something there to help you do it, or at least tell you why it's a bad idea to do it with a Vectra. Starting from http://www.hp.com/ I click on "support", then (on the resulting page) "business pc's" (sic; apparently HP's new standard web page design discourages the use of upper case alphabetic characters) because HP uses the Vectra brand name for business PCs and some other name(s) for home PCs. That gets me to a form where I can "enter product name & number" so I key in "Vectra 5/90 XU". That gets me to http://www.support.vectra.hp.com/vectrasupport/level1/home.html . There's a "Select a model" pull-down menu where I select "hp vectra xu 5/xx" which takes me to http://www.support.vectra.hp.com/vectrasupport/indexes/Driver24.html , which has links to drivers and other software for that model. It also has a link to a "technical notes" page with some documentation, http://www.support.vectra.hp.com/vectrasupport/indexes/Document24.html . If that's not enough rope, try Usenet groups comp.sys.hp.hardware and/or comp.sys.hp.misc -- there are some folks there who are familiar with 1995's Vectra. -Frank McConnell From wanderer at bos.nl Sun Sep 24 05:00:25 2000 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Info Required: M7900-M7904 Modules References: <200009240108.SAA24144@fraser.sfu.ca> Message-ID: <39CDD0B9.29CC@bos.nl> Kevin, These cards are indeed the RK06/7 controller (RK611). M7900 - Unibus interface M7901 - Register module M7902 - Control module M7903 - Data module M7904 - Drive interface module AFAIK, it uses it's own 9 slot backplane for these cards. Ed Kevin McQuiggin wrote: > > Hi Group: > > I found the following modules in a recently-acquired 11/34A: > > M7900 > M7901 > M7902 > M7903 > M7904 > > These are all hex height modules, I suspect that they form an RK07 > controller, however they are NOT in the latest field guide. > > Any info appreciated, > > Kevin > > -- > Kevin McQuiggin VE7ZD > mcquiggi@sfu.ca > ---------- > To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to > info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message > body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). -- NOTE: from the 1st of October, my email address will be 'quapla@xs4all.nl'. My current provider managed to loose all my email and webpages, simply because they did not perform regular backups. From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Sep 24 08:24:20 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 was:Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: References: <39CBDFB2.31254.5E5EA36@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 22, 0 10:39:46 pm Message-ID: <39CD9E14.24485.E44FF9@localhost> > > Thanks guys. I wasn't aware it had color monitor ability. With it's > > > > It doesn't (or to be more exact, the standard QX10 doesn't). > > There's no graphic circuitry on the motherboard of the QX10, it's all > on a daughterboard. The 2 pins that Don said were for the Red and > Green (I think) signals are routed to the connector for this > daughterboard (CN10), pins 2 and 4. The normal graphics card, the > Q10GMS or Q10GCS (depending on which version you have) ties these pins > to ground. There is only one video output signal (== mono video) on > this board. > > > svelte low-profile and 2 FDDs a pretty classy machine for its day. > > Those FDDs are _nice_. They use a linear positioner, a bit like an > RK05 hard disk, with the same photosensor feedback. The theory and > schematics for the drives are in the manual as well... > > > I imagine it would need a color card for the CR-6700. > > Ues. The staandard card is mono only. I've never heard of a colour > card for this machine and the manual doesn't show it. > > > > > Damn ! It provided power to the monitor. An added complication. > > While I have a lot of multi-syncs and configurable monitors most > > have their own PSUs and I wonder about the interrelationship in the > > QX-10 circuity. > > That 12V supply is just a convenient power output for the standard > monitor. If your monitor is self-powered, you can ignore it. I've run > my QX10 with no monitor connected (while tracing a fault on the > garphics board) and had no ill effects. > > According to the manual, the monitor draws less than 1.5A on average. > If you're seriously worried about no load on the 12V monitor supply, > try connecting a 12V 12W (or thereabouts) car bulb between this pin > and ground to act as a dummy load. Personally, I'd not botherabout it. > > > > > I acquired the K-B separately and looking at Tom Carlsons pics > > I thought I had the wrong K-B even tho it had the same connector. > > Turns out there were 2 versions as I understand it, one for Valdocs > > and one for CP/M. The connector for the K-B has 1 center pin and > > Correct. The HASCI (Valdocs) keyboard has a few more keys and some > different labels. Maybe the internal microcontroller code is different > as well. Electrically they're very similar and have the same > interface. > > > 7 around the outside the same as the monitor. One troubling note is > > that the QX-10 came with a separate coiled cable, with 2 male > > connectors, each with the little tabs for pulling it out. The k-b I > > acquired later has an attached cable with a similiar tab. The coiled > > cable ends insert easily into the K-b socket on the QX-10 but the > > K-B cable only with difficulty. The obverse applies to the monitor > > socket. > > Ah... > > According to the manual, the connectors for the keyboard and monitor > are different. Since they're both 8 pin DIN sockets, I am going to > assume (dangerous...) that one is the 'circular' type and the other is > the 'offset' type. > > Both have circular shells of the same size. The difference is in the > pins. The 'circular' ones has the 7 outside pins in a circular arc, > the 'offset' one has the outermost 2 pins (near the locating notch) > offset outwards. If you've forced the plug into the wrong socket you > might have bent the pins or damaged the socket so that they don't look > different any more. > > Look carefully at the 2 connectors on the board to see if you can see > the difference. Then examine the cables you have. If possible, open up > the plugs and look at the solder side, since the pins won't be bent > there. > > > Keeping in mind Tony's recent comments on variations in 8-pin > > DIN connectors, I compared the 2, but could find no dfference > > except that the shell on the k-b cable DIN could be a fraction > > smaller. I had thought originally that it could be slightly > > out-of-round but now I am wondering if I do have the right Epson > > K-B. The K-B is labelled m.Q503-A. > > > > I can't find that number (or any number other than 'QX10 keyboard') in > the manual. > > [Delay while ARD digs into the workshop...] > > OK, I've looked at my QX10. The monitor connector is the 'circular' > type, the keyboard connector is 'offset'. They are different. And my > keyboard (ASCII, probably UK layout) is a Q703. > > Sounds like you might have the wrong keyboard. > > Also, the pins on a 'circular' connector (the monitor connector) are > conventionally numbered (looking at the solder side of the plug) : > > > 2 > 4 5 > 1 8 3 > 6 7 > ^ > | > Locator > > -tony > > Thanks Tony. It would seem that I have neither monitor or nor K-B. Sounds like it will go on a back shelf with other uncompleted projects amongst the nonworking tube(valve) radios lacking either the oldstyle batteries (the replacements are now astronomically expensive and you need 2 different v+) radios or special parts, until the proper k-b and monitor surface. Better to see if I can ressurect the H89 or some other stalled project. If the k-b for the QX10 is labelled Q703 and assuming(as you said- dangerous) they were sequential, what-in-hell could this Q503-A keyboard be for ? I wasn't aware that Epson made any puters before the QX-10, although the existant model # might imply otherwise. BTW , knowing you're into "valves", I have one of those old TV servicemans tube cases crammed full of arcane boxed tubes, as well as several boxes of tubes waiting to be tested in my Eico as need arises. Should you have need for an any oddballs, mainly american, contact me off-list, I might have it. Except for the common audio ones I don't have much use for them, but can't bring myself to toss them. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Sep 24 08:24:21 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <20000924021147.FONY27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <005a01c025c9$46f5ec30$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39CD9E15.11347.E45058@localhost> > True. True. Windows is actually more difficult than other operating > systems. I admit to being more violent in my speach than other times > but -- no guts not glory. > > I don't even know what this fool wanted to do given his message. I > suspect he is gone until he gets another 10 years or so behind the > stick. If ever. Making a 90mhz p54 machine run what you want is not > the focus of this group of mini-C addicts I'm sure. > Whoa !! While many on this list are Dec-centric and Mini enthusiasts, this is not a MINI mailing list. Read the m-l faq and look at the archives. This would be a better response in a MINI news-group or m-l, which TMK this is not. While many of us like myself and others I suspect, indulgantly skip the PDP and Vax msgs and search out classic micro info. Neither is it the reserve of highly knowledgeable computer techs or sys-adms. You may have a valid objection under the 10 yr rule but your response was less than gracious and unneeded. You could have simply ignored the msg. like the ocasional spam that gets thru. KUDOs BTW to the m-l hosts. None for a long time. Testerone-pumped posturing by the new bride-groom for his observant beloved ?? We have lost some valuable participents to similiar BS Kai ?(the M-S employed engineer) and the aussie springs to mind (but not his name), not to mention the opinionated but very knowledgeable former Tandy employee and collector Ward Griffith. Take a bluee (valium to those drug-knowledge impaired) . ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From frederik at freddym.org Sun Sep 24 05:52:32 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <39CD671E.E2EA0AD1@home.net> Message-ID: Hi! > What are some of the default logins under VMS. Yes this is the first time > I've played with the beast. Please see the OpenVMS FAQ. -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From vaxman at uswest.net Sun Sep 24 08:25:20 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Will, Q-bus right? The module handles should be mounted the same as a 'normal' card, and the grant card goes in with the same orientation. If it's a baby grant card (2"x2" or so), compare the traces to those on a normal card (the memory for example). The normal card should have jumpers for the same pin (perhaps with one broken for the card to use). Install the grant card into the same slot, with the same orientation to jumper the same pins. clint PS I might have some RK05 stuff, but I'm going out of town. I'll check when I get back next weekend. On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Will Jennings wrote: > OK, > Since there has been all this 11/34 discussion lately, maybe I can get some > help with mine? Here's the config: 11/34A CPU, FP11-F (I think thats the > right name for the FPP), KY11-LA (non-keypad front panel), DL11-W, M9301-YB > boot loader, RK11-D, RK05F, RK05J (no packs!), 128KW total memory (4 16K > boards, and one 64K board, all are variations of MS11-?), M9302 (of course), > 861C power controller, and I think an H960 or whatever rack. OK, first off, > which power supply modules would go in the PSU and where? BTW, the 11/34A I > have is the big one, it uses a BA11-A.. Second, anyone have a nice DL11-W > cable that I could use to connect it to a VT220 or something? Third, does > anyone have any spare RK05 packs? Fourth, this may be a dumb question, but > which way should the grant continuity cards face, i.e. should the fingers > face toward the right (the side the other boards face toward if you stand > directly in front of the beastie.) Finally, does anyone have any manuals > they can loan me, copy for me, part with, etc.? All I have is the > RK05/RK05J/RK05F Maintenance Manual, which is about totally useless right > now. And all DEC seems to have available is the 11/34 Illustrated Parts > Breakdown... Oh yeah, could also use the top trim panel for the rack ;p > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > From ncherry at home.net Sun Sep 24 08:55:03 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS References: Message-ID: <39CE07B7.8251C666@home.net> Frederik Meerwaldt wrote: > > Hi! > > > What are some of the default logins under VMS. Yes this is the first time > > I've played with the beast. > > Please see the OpenVMS FAQ. I took a quick look (I went back and reread 90% of it) and didn't directly find the answer to the question. But I did find 2 very important references. The first is breaking when having lost the password (I think I may need that) and the next is the online manuals. That is probably where my answers are. I did come away with one realization, though. I have a lot of learning to do! Thanks. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Sep 24 10:19:58 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal Message-ID: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> I know that I will get a flame just for this inquiry, but here goes. I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as compared to paying with a Money Order, but I thought that asking first might help. Note that I am not comparing with a process better than a Money Order since this vendor does not accept a cheque, MC or VISA. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Sep 24 10:20:22 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A help needed Message-ID: <20000924152022.53258.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> --- Will Jennings wrote: > Third, does anyone have any spare RK05 packs? I have a number of packs. I know that RT-11 V4 is on some of them; others appear to be data, but I haven't read them. What's the going rate for ancient media these days? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Sep 24 10:33:55 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: I got married! References: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> <3.0.5.32.20000923201724.009b5100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <39CE1EE3.13E0F347@timharrison.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > I couldn't agree more. Especially considering that you've found an > understanding mate that is supportive of your techie side. > > Speaking from personal experience, do you have ANY idea how rare that is? ;-) I do. I found one. She allows me to collect, but keeps me grounded in reality sometimes. "No, you can't put anything more than 4 feet tall into the living room". > If she starts getting edgy about it, you can tell her to E-mail my own > lifemate, Dana (kathy@bluefeathertech.com). We've been married for six-plus > years now, so she knows very well what it means to be married to a budding > engineer. We need to start a mailing list for the wives/husbands of collectors. That way, they can find solace in others who may not be of the collecting persuasion. > Congrats! May you have smooth sailing. Oh, and NEVER forget your > anniversary date! We got married on St. Patrick's Day. I didn't even realize that. Thing is, I constantly forget when St. Patrick's Day is. :) So, when asked, I just say "We got married on St. Patrick's Day". Saved me a couple of times. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From frederik at freddym.org Sun Sep 24 10:44:26 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <39CE07B7.8251C666@home.net> Message-ID: Hi! > I took a quick look (I went back and reread 90% of it) and didn't directly > find the answer to the question. But I did find 2 very important references. > The first is breaking when having lost the password (I think I may need that) Yes. And you need that. You just "break in" and then change the system password. > and the next is the online manuals. That is probably where my answers are. > I did come away with one realization, though. I have a lot of learning to do! If you're new to OpenVMS you might want to read my OpenVMS Howto on www.freddym.org -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Sep 24 10:53:18 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000923201724.009b5100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <20000924023246.GJTA27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.1.20000924114244.00abb8c0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 08:17 PM 9/23/00 -0700, Bruce Lane said something like: >At 22:32 23-09-2000 -0400, you wrote: > >>>From: THETechnoid@home.com Allison said: >>>Well I for one think that is so on topic that congrats are a must. > > > > I couldn't agree more. Especially considering that you've found an >understanding mate that is supportive of your techie side. I feel the same. Indeed, big congrats to you! > > Speaking from personal experience, do you have ANY idea how rare that is? ;-) Is kinda rare. Beverly has been working on the tech side (at my ex-employer) over her 22+ year career. Other women I knew in the past had their eyes glaze over when my ingrained technical side started talking about stuff so I could see there was not a good lifetime match. A couple of the list members may be able to attest to this as they know Bev now. Sept 13, 1998 is the date Bev & I got hitched. > >>>I do hope she supports your collecting. >> >>She sure does and I thank God for that. >> >>She endured my Data General phase without a hiccup. >>She Must love me! It took five months. From pillow-talk alone, she knows >>more about MV machines than Tracy Kidder herself. > > If she starts getting edgy about it, you can tell her to E-mail my own >lifemate, Dana (kathy@bluefeathertech.com). We've been married for six-plus >years now, so she knows very well what it means to be married to a budding >engineer. > > Congrats! May you have smooth sailing. Oh, and NEVER forget your >anniversary date! Amen, brother Bruce, amen!!! Good luck! -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Sep 24 17:00:21 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: Hello Jerome On 24-Sep-00, you wrote: > I know that I will get a flame just for this inquiry, but here goes. > > I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending > a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone > please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as > compared to paying with a Money Order, but I thought that > asking first might help. Note that I am not comparing with > a process better than a Money Order since this vendor does > not accept a cheque, MC or VISA. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine Caveat Emptor . . . I've heard that you don't have recourse through PayPal like you would through Visa or MasterCard if you get ripped off. AFAIK, PayPal is like using cash for the seller, and plastic for you and me. I'd be super cautious. What you might be able to do is arrange to have the seller go through a friend or business that takes plastic. I've done that once, paying the discount as well. In that case, if you get ripped off, it is between the seller and his 'friend/business'. They can fight over your chargeback leaving you in the clear . . . . > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From bwit at pobox.com Sun Sep 24 11:16:54 2000 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000924111406.00aaa100@mail.ruffboy.com> At 11:19 AM 9/24/00 -0400, you wrote: >I know that I will get a flame just for this inquiry, but here goes. > >I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending >a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone >please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as >compared to paying with a Money Order, but I thought that >asking first might help. Note that I am not comparing with >a process better than a Money Order since this vendor does >not accept a cheque, MC or VISA. I think PayPal is a great idea. The only problem I have with them is that they require you to give up all the rights you have when using a credit card. You must promise to never dispute a charge from PayPal. Of course, they can't make you keep this promise but they will disable your PayPal account if you dispute a charge. For this reason I won't use them. Your mileage may vary. Regards, Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Withers Do or do not, there is no try. bwit@pobox.com Yoda. http://www.ruffboy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- Version 3.1 http://www.geekcode.com GCS d- s: a+ C++ UO++ P L++ E--- W++ N++ o-- w++ O M V- PS PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X++ r* tv+ b++ DI++ D--- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++ ----- END GEEK CODE BLOCK ----- From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Sep 24 11:37:24 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal Message-ID: <000924123724.20201cef@trailing-edge.com> *>I know that I will get a flame just for this inquiry, but here goes. *> *>I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending *>a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone *>please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as *I think PayPal is a great idea. I agree, but I don't think it helps Jerome since he isn't in the US, and Paypal doesn't deal with either buyers nor sellers who don't have US Postal addresses. Jerome is in Canada, I should note, but I don't know if it's possible for him to get a US postal address just to use Paypal or not. I think the Paypal rules strictly state that you must be a *resident of the US*, and that a US postal address isn't good enough (though I'm not sure they could tell the difference.) (Certainly while I was living in Canada, having a US postal address and bank account helped me a lot with many financial issues.) There are other services that don't suffer from Paypal's problems - most noticably E-bay's Billpoint service, and Amazon's electronic payments - though of course the seller must sign up with these services as well as the buyer. Tim. From ncherry at home.net Sun Sep 24 11:45:32 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS References: Message-ID: <39CE2FAC.5A172BCE@home.net> Frederik Meerwaldt wrote: > If you're new to OpenVMS you might want to read my OpenVMS Howto on > www.freddym.org I'll definitely need that, I have no idea how to work under OpenVMS but I am willing to learn. Some of my colleagues don't think highly of my interest in the VAX. But then again they have MS's while I have an AS degree, yet they seem to come to me to resolve weird problems. Could it be that my curiosity got me were I am? Nah, they've got a degree, they must be smarter than I am (actually a few of them are! But they don't look down at my curiosity, they encourage it!). Sorry for the diatribe. And a very large Thanks to everyone for all the help! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Sep 24 11:43:46 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000924094346.009afdf0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 11:19 24-09-2000 -0400, Jerome Fine wrote: >I know that I will get a flame just for this inquiry, but here goes. > >I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending >a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone >please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as I've used it. It works quite well, and I've not gotten ANY spam from them at all. I'd call them a good risk. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Sep 24 11:44:17 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <39CE07B7.8251C666@home.net> References: Message-ID: >> Please see the OpenVMS FAQ. > >I took a quick look (I went back and reread 90% of it) and didn't directly >find the answer to the question. But I did find 2 very important >references. >The first is breaking when having lost the password (I think I may need >that) Use the proceedure for what to do if you've lost a password that is in the FAQ. *DO NOT* use the proceedure for this that you'll find in the manuals. In at least some of the manuals the proceedure given doesn't work all the time. >and the next is the online manuals. That is probably where my answers are. >I did come away with one realization, though. I have a lot of learning to >do! The online manuals are a great place to start, but having real books is even better as you can read through them when not around a computer. I'd recommend starting with a 3rd party book on using VMS, then a book on VMS Administration such as "Mastering VMS". Then you'll really be ready to dive into the Doc Set. I've found books on using VMS and my copy of "Mastering VMS" very cheap used. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Sep 24 12:20:51 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS References: <39CE2FAC.5A172BCE@home.net> Message-ID: <39CE37F3.D9734374@timharrison.com> Neil Cherry wrote: > interest in the VAX. But then again they have MS's while I have an AS > degree, yet they seem to come to me to resolve weird problems. Could it > be that my curiosity got me were I am? Nah, they've got a degree, they > must be smarter than I am (actually a few of them are! But they don't > look down at my curiosity, they encourage it!). Sorry for the diatribe. I don't think education has all that much to do with it quite often. I didn't make it out of high school, but have done quite well for myself, IMnotsoHO. :) I've seen some of the people who have come out of college and university courses, and I think experience can teach you more than what you get in school. Many highly educated people have a lot of theoretical knowledge, but limited experience or practical knowledge. I'm not knocking going to school. In fact, the one thing that I think school provides is a validation of your ability to stick with things through to the end. Recently, I thought about going back and finishing high school, and then taking university courses, but at this stage of the game, people aren't looking at my academic record, as much as my ability to solve their problems and work effectively and efficiently. Just my CDN$0.02. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 24 12:50:34 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending > a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone > please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as > compared to paying with a Money Order, but I thought that > asking first might help. Note that I am not comparing with > a process better than a Money Order since this vendor does > not accept a cheque, MC or VISA. I'll post the reply to the list since PayPal can be useful for classic computer acquisitions over the web. I started using PayPal to accept credit card payments for VCF registration and it has served me well. I collected about $600 with it. I also got several "sign-on" bonuses: people who used PayPal for the first time as a result of wanting to register for the VCF earned me a $5 bonus. It's real simple to use. You can tie your account to a credit card so payments you send get debited directly to that. You can also tie it to a bank account, so that you can "sweep" your incoming funds into that account. For the regular user, it's totally free. The way PayPal makes money is by sticking the money you leave in your PayPal account into a mutual fund that they manage. They basically use your money to invest and make money themselves. For business operators like myself, they take a small percentage of each transaction (was 1.6%, changes as of Oct-1) and when you "sweep" funds into your bank account they take another percentage (was 0.6%, also changes as of Oct-1). The changes taking place as of Oct-1 increase the rates a bit, but it is still very reasonable for me, and the referral bonuses more than make up for the fees, so my usage of PayPal is still effectively free. I like it. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Sun Sep 24 12:52:25 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <000924123724.20201cef@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > There are other services that don't suffer from Paypal's problems - most > noticably E-bay's Billpoint service, and Amazon's electronic payments - > though of course the seller must sign up with these services as well as the > buyer. Good point. PayPal seems to be by far the most popular service, as I had no problem getting people to register for the VCF online. It also seems to be the cheapest, at least according to the comparisons that PayPal e-mailed me. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Sep 24 13:59:01 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal Message-ID: I sell stuff on eBay and have sold stuff to many on this list. PayPal doesn't work for me. Closing my warehouse put me deeply in debt and as a result I don't have and can't get a checking account. PayPal will send me a check but then I have to use a check cashing service which costs me 10%. I have been requesting USPS and Western Union money orders because they are the only instruments that do not cost me a percentage to cash. I have recently had my international and national customers use a service called BidPay (www.bidpay.com). They pay by credit card and BidPay sends me a Western Union money order. Recently Fred Meyer, who is a Western Union agent, has set up a policy of not cashing money orders that come from more than one hundred miles away. I am contesting this with Western Union and Fred Meyer. My alternative is to go back to my check cashing service which charges 10% to cash money orders. I am considering having to further restrict payment to just USPS money orders because of some of these restrictive policies. I am writing this to show there are many reasons why there are restrictions on payments. I am a good finder of equipment. The Ebay feedback rating system is very important. My feedback is 98 at the moment and is full of excellent comments. Check the feedback. If the person has a long run of good feedback the risk goes way down. Ask questions. A good seller doesn't mind answering. If you don't have credit it is tough to do business in this world. I am planning on selling a more S100 cards and DEC cards in the near future. Keep an eye on my seller's name "Innfosale." I love the list. It is always interesting. Paxton Portland, OR eBay seller "innfosale" From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Sep 24 19:48:43 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <39CE37F3.D9734374@timharrison.com> Message-ID: Hello Tim On 24-Sep-00, you wrote: > Neil Cherry wrote: > >> interest in the VAX. But then again they have MS's while I have an AS >> degree, yet they seem to come to me to resolve weird problems. Could it >> be that my curiosity got me were I am? Nah, they've got a degree, they >> must be smarter than I am (actually a few of them are! But they don't >> look down at my curiosity, they encourage it!). Sorry for the diatribe. > > I don't think education has all that much to do with it quite often. I > didn't make it out of high school, but have done quite well for myself, > IMnotsoHO. :) > > I've seen some of the people who have come out of college and university > courses, and I think experience can teach you more than what you get in > school. > > Many highly educated people have a lot of theoretical knowledge, but > limited experience or practical knowledge. I'm not knocking going to > school. In fact, the one thing that I think school provides is a > validation of your ability to stick with things through to the end. > > Recently, I thought about going back and finishing high school, and then > taking university courses, but at this stage of the game, people aren't > looking at my academic record, as much as my ability to solve their > problems and work effectively and efficiently. > > Just my CDN$0.02. I agree with most of that. I'm a college dropout myself, and I've seen and heard of college grads in EE who couldn't even design a simple linear power supply. Nothing replaces the school of hard knocks. And some of our greatest inventions were done by non-degreed people. All that degree really means is that you made it through 192 credit hours of classes with a 2.0 or better GPA. It doesn't say you remembered any of it. And then there's Bill Gates, but that is a lenghty rant that would run into volumes. Won't go there today . . . . > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From mac at Culver.Net Sun Sep 24 14:00:51 2000 From: mac at Culver.Net (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: PayPal stinks. Once you spend $500 through them, you can't use their service anymore unless you provide them with complete information about your bank account! I refuse to do this (they claim it's fraud prevention). I have had maybe a dozen emails back and forth with them on this problem (it takes them from 2 to 4 days to respond to an email, incidentally), and they won't budge. I can't wait until that PayPal (dis)service goes bankrupt. Justice. And, not to mention the other downsides of using their service, already mentioned here. Bah! -Mike On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > I know that I will get a flame just for this inquiry, but here goes. > > I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending > a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone > please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as > compared to paying with a Money Order, but I thought that > asking first might help. Note that I am not comparing with > a process better than a Money Order since this vendor does > not accept a cheque, MC or VISA. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Sep 24 14:35:34 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) References: Message-ID: <39CE5786.78A5AC2B@timharrison.com> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I agree with most of that. I'm a college dropout myself, and I've seen and > heard of college grads in EE who couldn't even design a simple linear power > supply. Nothing replaces the school of hard knocks. And some of our > greatest inventions were done by non-degreed people. True enough. I have a friend who is in his second year of a computer engineering course in a well respecting Canadian college. I accompanied him to school one day, just to see what they were teaching him. I ended up getting into arguments with almost all of his instructors (save one -- his English teacher -- who was teaching the class how to interact with management... something I think I should take lessons in :) ). The "operating systems" instructor was telling the class that OSs can't reside in ROM. As he said this, I sat back, held up my Palm, and smiled. He didn't. > All that degree really means is that you made it through 192 credit hours of > classes with a 2.0 or better GPA. It doesn't say you remembered any of it. Agreed. It means you were able to show up to class, and write the tests given. A test I once took (I applied to college as a "mature student" -- ha, little did they know -- and attended for approximately three weeks) had a multiple choice section. One of the choices to "How do you execute a DCL command under VMS" was "D: with a firing squad". Humour. I appreciated that. But, the instructor also added this goodie: 23. Which of the following is not a standalone operating system? A: DOS B: Windows 3.1 C: Novell Netware D: VMS His correct answer was "B". I pointed out that Novell requires DOS to boot, hence it isn't a standalone OS. I got 79 out of 80 on that one, due to that question. Frustration. > And then there's Bill Gates, but that is a lenghty rant that would run into > volumes. Won't go there today . . . . Well, Mr. Gates must have failed kindergarten through his lack of sharing. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 24 15:01:24 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS Message-ID: <004701c02662$d4723980$5f109a8d@ajp166> From: Gary Hildebrand To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>> interest in the VAX. But then again they have MS's while I have an AS >>> degree, yet they seem to come to me to resolve weird problems. Could it that shouldn't limit you. During you time at dec some of the better VMS people Didn't even have degrees in computers or electronics! the ability to discover, learn, understand and apply what you do know is important. >> Recently, I thought about going back and finishing high school, and then >> taking university courses, but at this stage of the game, people aren't >> looking at my academic record, as much as my ability to solve their >> problems and work effectively and efficiently. You can still go and learn just the degree thing is a PITA. >All that degree really means is that you made it through 192 credit hours of >classes with a 2.0 or better GPA. It doesn't say you remembered any of it. And regurgatate what was required. Seriously, those that do have a lot of things presented to them and the biggest is the tools needed to explore. I appreciate my college time even if I never did some of the bits needed for the degree. It is a help with wading through network analysis and project requiring dealing with transfer functions in loops and servo systems. In the end being willing to read and learn gave me breadth and depth needed to tackle a lot of things I'd never done before. Allison From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Sep 24 15:04:10 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: from "Gary Hildebrand" at Sep 24, 2000 04:00:21 PM Message-ID: <200009242004.OAA27353@calico.litterbox.com> > Caveat Emptor . . . I've heard that you don't have recourse through PayPal > like you would through Visa or MasterCard if you get ripped off. > > AFAIK, PayPal is like using cash for the seller, and plastic for you and me. > I'd be super cautious. > > What you might be able to do is arrange to have the seller go through a > friend or business that takes plastic. I've done that once, paying the > discount as well. In that case, if you get ripped off, it is between the > seller and his 'friend/business'. They can fight over your chargeback > leaving you in the clear . . . . Paypal are slime. They promised it would be "Forever free" to use, but if you receive any money through them they start insisting you get a seller's account, which of course has a fee. They also put a 300 lifetime limit on your account until you give them a bank account number. I don't know what they do with these numbers, but I'm not giving them out to anyone - them having my visa number is bad enough. In all honesty they haven't done anything to me personally - I've had several transactions through them until I depleted my $300 limit, and it DOES work, but yes, you have no recourse if you get e-screwed. They say this up front in the agreement to use their service. -Jim -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 24 15:11:01 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <004f01c02664$3e0b7fe0$5f109a8d@ajp166> From: Tim Harrison >with management... something I think I should take lessons in :) ). The >"operating systems" instructor was telling the class that OSs can't >reside in ROM. As he said this, I sat back, held up my Palm, and >smiled. He didn't. Your kidding... boy he has no knowledge of the space program (core rom ropes!). And has never seens a Epson PX-8 (cpm in rom!). Feh! Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 24 12:20:56 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Old caps: Recondition, or replace? In-Reply-To: <20000924005755.DBMJ27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Sep 23, 0 09:03:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 976 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000924/f2766840/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 24 12:50:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <20000924013247.EDQW27591.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Sep 23, 0 09:33:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000924/28c1d70b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 24 13:14:51 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A help needed In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Sep 24, 0 00:52:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 878 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000924/a58d82a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 24 13:45:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:36 2005 Subject: Login on VMS In-Reply-To: <39CE37F3.D9734374@timharrison.com> from "Tim Harrison" at Sep 24, 0 01:20:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1925 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000924/99b56d33/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 24 13:29:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Epson QX-10 was:Source for 8 Pin male to male DIN cables? In-Reply-To: <39CD9E14.24485.E44FF9@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Sep 24, 0 06:24:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2879 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000924/b834294f/attachment.ksh From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Sep 24 15:39:01 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) References: <004f01c02664$3e0b7fe0$5f109a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39CE6665.F845F266@timharrison.com> ajp166 wrote: > Your kidding... boy he has no knowledge of the space program > (core rom ropes!). And has never seens a Epson PX-8 (cpm in rom!). > Feh! Exactly. The students he's teaching are coming out into the world with less than complete knowledge, and it's people like us (the unschooled, but experienced type) that are kicking their butts all over the workplace. I suppose some can't be faulted. They're stuck in an educational system that's being decimated (well, at least in Ontario) by politicians. The teachers/instructors/professors are working from a curriculum that's at least two years behind where we are now, and they don't have the necessary funding to upgrade, or take new courses to learn new things. My father is a teacher, and I see how frustrated he is with how the education system is falling apart. And, now, in this "high tech" society, we're unleashing people who know how to type "win" at the DOS prompt into our technology sector. Sorry, guess I'm just frustrated. Apologies for the rant. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From spc at armigeron.com Sun Sep 24 15:39:21 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: New life for Atari 2600 Message-ID: <200009242039.QAA12256@armigeron.com> I came across this interesting page: http://www.geocities.com/funmazer/ It describes the work one person did to make his own portable Atari 2600 gaming system for about $200. I thought the people here might appreciate it. -spc (Wouldn't mind having one of these ... ) From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 24 15:42:16 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal References: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: <39CE6728.F1AAE58E@rain.org> Jerome Fine wrote: > > I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending > a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone > please comment? It seems reasonable from the outside as I have only used PayPal to receive money or to pay out money that was already in the account (from someone else :) ). It has been trouble and hassle free since I started using it. It remains free for non-business users but the distinction between business and personal has raised the hackles of more than a few people. The "Forever Free" slogans they started with is the biggest point of contention since they are not converting business users to the business account (which is not free, but does have lower costs.) Because money transfers are basically the same as cash, it is best to know the person to whom you are sending the money is reliable. At this point, they are still US only although they are indicating international transfers are in the works. Bottom line, I like it although I remain do remain cautious. From marvin at rain.org Sun Sep 24 15:47:31 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal References: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> <39CE6728.F1AAE58E@rain.org> Message-ID: <39CE6863.BF7FA863@rain.org> Marvin wrote: > biggest point of contention since they are not converting business users to ^^^ OOPS, That "not" should be "now". From elmo at mminternet.com Sun Sep 24 16:31:46 2000 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Free in Santa Monica: 486 MB's w/CPU Message-ID: <39CE72C1.1C1647B7@mminternet.com> I have four 486 MB's, known to work, with various CPU's from 33 to 120MHZ, and varying memory configurations - most of the 4x30pin+2x72pin variety, some are 8x30. Also included are a couple VLB Video cards and one VLB IDE controller. Please contact me off-list to arrange a pickup. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Sep 24 18:18:14 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: HP 95LX Message-ID: <200009242318.QAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Well, I landed an HP 95LX. Naturally, it has no manual. What can you tell me about it? It has 512K of RAM, of which 256K seems to be used as a RAM disk, and the sidecar PCMCIA slot has some RadioMail module loaded in it. What type PCMCIA slot is it? What can I put in it? It also came with a serial? cable terminating in an RJ-45. How programmable is it? I was able to get a DOS prompt (3.22, shiver). It also came with an Ericcson MobiDEM radio modem, but I'll bet it wouldn't work even if the battery pack were charged. What can I do with this? Nice system though! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I must confess, I was born at a very early age. -- Groucho Marx ------------ From ncherry at home.net Sun Sep 24 18:34:03 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: HP 95LX References: <200009242318.QAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <39CE8F6B.C4CDD66E@home.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Well, I landed an HP 95LX. Naturally, it has no manual. What can you tell > me about it? > > It has 512K of RAM, of which 256K seems to be used as a RAM disk, and the > sidecar PCMCIA slot has some RadioMail module loaded in it. What type > PCMCIA slot is it? What can I put in it? > > It also came with a serial? cable terminating in an RJ-45. > > How programmable is it? I was able to get a DOS prompt (3.22, shiver). > > It also came with an Ericcson MobiDEM radio modem, but I'll bet it wouldn't > work even if the battery pack were charged. What can I do with this? > > Nice system though! Use the sorts (search engines :-). It is an 8018x (not sure if it an 86 or 88). It runs DOS and can use most DOS tools. It is a favorite amongst the hacker crowd as it is a nice easily portable machine (yes I have to get me one of those). I have the HP300LX, it's all right. EBAY will have accessories for the beasty so you may want to check there, but watch those prices. Sometimes they goes nuts! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Sep 24 18:20:22 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: HP 95LX In-Reply-To: <200009242318.QAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Sep 24, 0 04:18:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1719 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000925/28bf8a4c/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Sep 24 18:58:11 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: References: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000924165017.027e9c60@208.226.86.10> Ok, I've used PayPal and I think it is pretty darn cool. To Mike and others, yes giving them a Bank Account _is_ fraud prevention because Banks won't give checking accounts to people that they can't reach. So by requiring a bank account PayPal knows that they can get hold of you if they have to. Now there is no restriction that it be your main account, only one that has your name on it. I walked down the street to a local bank that was giving free checking for life when you signed up, deposited $50 to open the account and got a free 2 liter Pepsi too! Now this is the account that PayPal has and it keeps a balance of $50 max. Thus the maximum "damage" anyone can do if they subvert PayPal and clean out the account is $50, same as a credit card. And speaking of credit cards, since people throw them at you, if one is finanically able to have a card just for Internet use, then it is easy to spot bogus charges on it right away. Also if you limit the credit limit then that helps too. Now this doesn't help folks like Paxton (who clearly has many financial difficulties and thus can't avail himself of these techniques) it should help folks who just want to be cautious with the information about them on the web. Using PayPal is _exactly_ like sending a Money Order. You send it, the seller high tails out of town, and your stuck holding an empty bag. Now if that seller is "verified" (which means PayPal had an account number from them) they they will cover your loss. So in that respect you're better off than the Post Office who has never been willing to refund my money on a money order that had been cashed by the addressee. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Sep 24 19:21:14 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <39CE5786.78A5AC2B@timharrison.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000924170001.0271ed10@208.226.86.10> At 03:35 PM 9/24/00 -0400, Tim Harrison wrote: >The "operating systems" instructor was telling the class that OSs can't >reside in ROM. As he said this, I sat back, held up my Palm, and >smiled. He didn't. That's because you were being a smart-ass and you were wrong :-) The PALM's OS resides in "Flash" (aka very rarely written, and non-volatile RAM). It is better to tell undergrads that cars do not fly, then to explain to them that _most_ cars don't fly but some very creative types in Santa Monica once converted a Pinto into an airplane by attaching wings and a tail and adding a pusher prop. I usually hear on of three reasons why people "drop out" of college: 1) They run out of money. This is a legitimate excuse and typically these folks return when they refresh their cash supply. 2) They get "bored because they ain't learnin' nuthin'" If they change to another school, or change to a different major and then finish college that's fine. If they simply leave and try to find work then when I interview them I know a cannot trust them to complete a task they get bored with. They cannot motivate themselves to do the necessary but distasteful things that come with "work." 3) They quit to pursue an opportunity of a lifetime. Well if they are interviewing with me then that opportunity didn't work out, and if they didn't go back to school then I have to wonder if maybe they just weren't cut out for it. The problem as I see it is that "college", unlike "high school", switches the onus of learning from the staff to the student. Anyone that goes to college, seeks out things to learn about, plows through the paper work and general education requirements, and exits with a diploma is someone I will hire over anyone who got bored an dropped out because they weren't being taught anything. I ask them, "Why did you tolerate not learning anything?" And they are usually pretty dumbfounded like, "Gee aren't you just supposed to put in your 2 to 4 years and get out?" --Chuck From jfedorko at virtualadmin.com Sun Sep 24 19:07:19 2000 From: jfedorko at virtualadmin.com (Joel Fedorko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I tried Paypal.. worked fine until I ran against the inconvienence of the magical $$ limit. Then they wanted my bank info, I'm not giving that out. I like the previously mentioned "free checking for life" idea, but it's still a pain. I've been lucky and only had one problem making a purchase on ebay, a problem with a dial on a old radio (but I can fix it). As far as credit cards go... I don't use them on the internet. I use a debit card that I "load up" as required. I also have the bank kill it and issue a new one every once and a while. Happy Computing. -Joel From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Sep 24 19:37:44 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal References: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> <4.3.1.2.20000924165017.027e9c60@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <008001c02688$d2e1e040$6a9ab2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Using PayPal is _exactly_ like sending a Money Order. It's even a bit better as the transit time is effectively zero, and there's less risk that it will be lost in the mail. From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Sep 24 20:27:50 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: HP 95LX References: <200009242318.QAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <010f01c0268f$d28e64e0$69711fd1@default> I got one at a local auction and then purchased the manual for it on eBay for $10. If you need something specific let me know. I still see the manuals and other items for it on eBay. Good source. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 6:18 PM Subject: HP 95LX > Well, I landed an HP 95LX. Naturally, it has no manual. What can you tell > me about it? > > It has 512K of RAM, of which 256K seems to be used as a RAM disk, and the > sidecar PCMCIA slot has some RadioMail module loaded in it. What type > PCMCIA slot is it? What can I put in it? > > It also came with a serial? cable terminating in an RJ-45. > > How programmable is it? I was able to get a DOS prompt (3.22, shiver). > > It also came with an Ericcson MobiDEM radio modem, but I'll bet it wouldn't > work even if the battery pack were charged. What can I do with this? > > Nice system though! > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- I must confess, I was born at a very early age. -- Groucho Marx ------------ > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Sep 24 21:03:27 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <003c01c02695$e6e788d0$06109a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >It is better to tell undergrads that cars do not fly, then to explain to >them that _most_ cars don't fly but some very creative types in Santa >Monica once converted a Pinto into an airplane by attaching wings and a >tail and adding a pusher prop. True, Palm was a weak choice but there are plenty of OSs that are romable. >I usually hear on of three reasons why people "drop out" of college: > > 1) They run out of money. > 3) They quit to pursue an opportunity of a lifetime. > > Well if they are interviewing with me then that opportunity > didn't work out, and if they didn't go back to school > then I have to wonder if maybe they just weren't cut > out for it. I add #4 1 occured, 3 kept me eating and 4 was major surgery with a long recovery. I may be the oddball, I didn't go back as my career was moving forward dispite that and I had no qualms of going back for non grad (and non credit) courses. >college, seeks out things to learn about, plows through the paper work and >general education requirements, and exits with a diploma is someone I will I larned to accept the paper as in engineering there are two rules. 1) if you didn't write it down it never happend (or isnt done) 2) for every hour of design there will be many hours of documentation about it. 30 years in the biz supports that. Rather than tolerate pablum in classes I chose to challenge the profs. I had time carrying a techs bag (how I paid for school) so there were things I knew and could be intelligent on and sometimes I had to eat a foot for being stupid. In the end I learned and I learned more because I wanted more. Education is worth what you put in it. >taught anything. I ask them, "Why did you tolerate not learning anything?" >And they are usually pretty dumbfounded like, "Gee aren't you just supposed >to put in your 2 to 4 years and get out?" Your right, that is lame. Oh, the biggest peice of foot I ever ate... small computers will never be as prolific as they are. However, despite that I was designing with 8008 in '73, it was interesting (and that golden opportunity). Allison From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Sep 24 21:24:18 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: HP 95LX In-Reply-To: Cameron Kaiser's message of "Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:18:14 -0700 (PDT)" References: <200009242318.QAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <200009250224.TAA59879@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Well, I landed an HP 95LX. Naturally, it has no manual. What can you tell > me about it? Well, I used to use one, 'til I replaced it with a 100LX. It's been a few years and I've forgotten a bit. > It has 512K of RAM, of which 256K seems to be used as a RAM disk, and the > sidecar PCMCIA slot has some RadioMail module loaded in it. What type > PCMCIA slot is it? What can I put in it? You should be able to twiddle the RAM partition between system RAM and RAM disk space. I can't remember how though. On the 100LX it is Ctrl+Filer. The slot is PCMCIA 1.0 Type II, meaning pretty much "memory devices only", and I suspect it's not fully standard due to the power limitations of the 95LX (i.e. must run off 2 AA cells). It'll take SRAM cards, some ROM cards (HP made some and maybe that's what your RadioMail module is), I have been told that it will take a very few flash cards that were made with it in mind, and one company (New Media) made a modem for it that was reportedly functional but weird enough that most folks stuck with external pocket modems connected via the serial port. > It also came with a serial? cable terminating in an RJ-45. That's different; maybe it's for the MobiDEM? The "stock" serial cable terminates in a DE3S intended for attachment to a PC/AT style serial port. Note the serial port is effectively three-wire, no hardware flow control. > How programmable is it? I was able to get a DOS prompt (3.22, shiver). Yes and yes. It is not entirely IBM-compatible but it is possible to run some IBM PC-flavored MS-DOS software on it. I used to have a FORTH on the 95LX. Now I have MS QuickC on the 200LX. > It also came with an Ericcson MobiDEM radio modem, but I'll bet it wouldn't > work even if the battery pack were charged. What can I do with this? I don't know. Probably not much, my understanding is that most of the wireless e-mail/Internet providers have basically ditched MS-DOS (and hence HP LX) support for WinCE and PalmOS devices. If I had one I'd probably be looking to cause those responsible some constipation with it. > Nice system though! Very. It's one of the few machines that I'd exempt from the 10-year rule, although I think it's only got another year to go. -Frank McConnell From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Sep 24 21:50:12 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal References: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: <39CEBD64.EDACCD28@idirect.com> >Jerome Fine wrote: > I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending > a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone > please comment? Jerome Fine replies: By the way, the article I am buying is over ten years old, so I hope that payment for it is not so off topic. Many thanks for the comments. As Tim Shoppa pointed out, I am in Canada, so it may not work. But I did forget to ask about the procedure????? From what I see, I give them a some personal information like where I live, but since they require a US address, that may stop the process. If I get beyond that point, how does paypal receive my credit card number if I choose to use one? And are there any other questions of a practical nature that someone with actual experience using paypal would tell me to ask? One thing that I am reluctant to do is send the credit card number via the internet, but I guess that it is essentially no worse than doing so by phone to any other large company? Any comments on this aspect? Namely, I would like to understand the actual details of what I might be getting into?? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From harrison at timharrison.com Sun Sep 24 22:00:45 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) References: <003c01c02695$e6e788d0$06109a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39CEBFDD.13119B06@timharrison.com> ajp166 wrote: > True, Palm was a weak choice but there are plenty of OSs that are > romable. I have to admit, it was not exactly accurate. :) At the time, I thought it was. However, I had successfully made my point. As for methods of learning, I don't think telling them that all cars don't fly, when there are some that do is proper. Telling them that cars, in common practice, do not fly, yet there are some that do, is more effective. That might challenge the student (the one who is actually interested) to find out for themselves which cars do actually fly, and why. > I may be the oddball, I didn't go back as my career was moving > forward dispite that and I had no qualms of going back for non > grad (and non credit) courses. I left high school because of my home status (I didn't have one), and found computers to be an excellent way to change that. When I tried college, I found that I was learning more through messing around by myself. I learned through my own tinkering at my own speed (quicker than the classes). Seems to have worked so far (except for my Palm incident a year ago ;) ). And my token "old computer" mention for the day is: While watching the credits for Star Trek: The Motion Picture tonight, I noticed the the computer displays in Sick Bay were done on DEC equipment. Mentioned in the credits, along with Apogee Software (unfortunately, not your good ol' makers of Commander Keen adventures... :( ). -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From schoedel at kw.igs.net Sun Sep 24 22:33:08 2000 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> 861C power controller, and I think an H960 or whatever rack. OK, first off, >> which power supply modules would go in the PSU and where? BTW, the 11/34A I > >IIRC it's one -15V,10A one (H754), two 5V,32A ones (H7441 IIRC), and an >optional one which, if fitted at all, is normally either the +20V/-5V one >for core memory or the battery backup interface one. Most machines only >have the first 3 regulators fitted. > >I can't remember the order off the top of my head, but I can look it up. Looking from back to front, i.e. with the box horizontal, power supply nearest you, front panel furthest: H745 (-15V) on the far left; two H741 (5V) adjacent to the main transformer in the middle; core/battery/empty on the right. >> anyone have any spare RK05 packs? Fourth, this may be a dumb question, but >> which way should the grant continuity cards face, i.e. should the fingers > >Actually, they're keyed and will only fit level if they're the right way >round. But it's not that obvious where they are level. Note: the above test is not reliable. I have at least one system unit for which exactly the opposite is true: there is a continuous groove from D to E (and not a keying ridge), but not from C to D. So, if the card is in backwards, the deeper post-D cut sits against the CD boundary while the shallow pre-D cut is in the groove, and the card is level. Conversely, if the card is in correctly, then the shallow pre-D cut rests against the CD boundary; the slot is deeper than that, so that if the card is pushed in as far as it will go, it isn't level. Rather follow this: >They go in with the traces on the left, as if they were on the solder >side of the PCB. (Left, looking from front to back; and they go in slot D, where A is adjacent to the power supply and F adjacent to the front panel.) While on the subject, most of the grant cards I have have a trace running from DA2 off the edge of the card... ? This might be a good time for me to ask whether any of the more experienced people might look at, verify or criticize the diagrams I made myself to identify Unibus and Qbus card connector pinouts. (I found it remarkably difficult to find pinout information on-line for non-in/out Unibus connectors, so I know the Unibus SPC diagrams are incomplete.) Postscript versions; these are 'actual size', so that one can hold a card against the diagram to quickly locate pins. (US letter size, but will fit if centered on A4): http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/qbus.ps.gz (6K) http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/unibus-ab.ps.gz (5K) http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/unibus-cdef-spc.ps.gz (9K) GIF versions, retouched a little to look better on-screen: http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/qbus.gif http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/unibus-ab.gif http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/unibus-cdef-spc.gif xfig for the above and several other variations: http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/fig.tar.gz (52K) Equivalent text 'diagrams': http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/u-diagram.txt http://www.kw.igs.net/~schoedel/dec/bus/q-diagram.txt -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Sep 24 22:47:18 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <39CEBFDD.13119B06@timharrison.com> References: <003c01c02695$e6e788d0$06109a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000924203640.00a7ff00@208.226.86.10> At 11:00 PM 9/24/00 -0400, Tim Harrison wrote: >When I tried >college, I found that I was learning more through messing around by >myself. I learned through my own tinkering at my own speed (quicker >than the classes). Seems to have worked so far (except for my Palm >incident a year ago ;) ). Then you were in the wrong college. If you were movitvated enough to "mess around yourself" then you could have done that at college with better equipment and in a more structured way. Tell your professors, "Gee, this is really neat stuff. How can I set up a lab to experiment on this?" Often you will have labs, equipment, and sometimes even other students available to make this stuff work. I started a computer club and not only did the engineering department give us gear, but the profs would listen to our "stupid" questions and point us in more profitable directions. Do you know how much "junk" sits around at a college? That is why they are the leading source for computer collectors! Now what's a computer collector's ideal position? Infinite space, infinite new toys to play with, all within walking distance of their bed/kitchen. Get a dorm room on campus and away you go. I got to "play around" with a 1KW CO2 laser this way. After getting tired of cutting circles out of our wallets :-) a couple of grad students and I hooked up a PDP-11 to the thing to do computer controlled engraving. I did knick knacks, they did high precision millimeter wave microwave wave guides. Everyone has fun and you learn just as much and much faster than if you did it without anyone to explain it to who can say, "Oh that is clever, now have you considered what you could do if you used a galvo to steer the beam? Ask Ranjit if he's got an instrumentation amplifier you can use..." --Chuck From mac at Culver.Net Sun Sep 24 22:54:15 2000 From: mac at Culver.Net (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <008001c02688$d2e1e040$6a9ab2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: And, of course, PayPal is worthless except in the US (and here it is only slightly better than worthless until you run up against their $$$ limit.) -Mike On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > Using PayPal is _exactly_ like sending a Money Order. > > It's even a bit better as the transit time is > effectively zero, and there's less risk that it will be > lost in the mail. From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Sep 25 00:36:00 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Sun 386i to give away Message-ID: <20000925013600.B13991@alcor.concordia.ca> I've got a Sun 386i that I rescued from the dumpster sitting here taking up precious space. I originally thought I'd grab some disk for it and play with it, but, well, spare time and all that. It has the following cards: 540-1062-01 (Framebuffer) 555-1006-01 (?) 501-1423 (Memory, populated by 270-1394's) 501-1244 (?) It has no disk. It also has the storage expansion that clips on top, but that is also empty of disks and tape, and is missing its side panel. The floppy drive is still there, though. :-) I have full documentation for this guy, including all original manuals, the full users' and programmers' documentation sets which cover slightly more than just this machine, much of the promotional materials for it and for the parts it at one point was accompanied by, plus most of the purchase orders for it. I've also got a bunch of QIC media with SunOS and OpenWindows. It's taking up room here, and since I haven't done anything with it yet, I suspect I never will. It's free to whoever wants it; they'll have to pick it up or pay for shipping -- or, if you're a BSD person thinking about a port, talk to me. The machine itself weighs 45 lbs, the expansion unit 25 lbs, and the documentation, um, weights as much as a square foot of paper weighs, times three. :-) I do ask that anyone interested take at *least* the main box and one box of documentation (with the brochures, main manuals, and purchase order history). Shipping would be from Montreal, Quebec. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From nabil at SpiritOne.com Mon Sep 25 00:37:26 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: KSR-43 parts avail In-Reply-To: <200009231426.KAA27188@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: I have way too many KSR-43's and have been stripping out interesting looking parts and tipping the rest into my dumpster. If there is part or assembly you need, drop me a line soon. Very soon. -- Aaron Nabil From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Sep 25 01:58:04 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <006901c025cc$75932eb0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >>Without bothering you all too much, I thought it might be worth knowing >>that Chrissy and I were married on Sept. 9 2000. It was a beautiful >>day/time and I love her very much. > > >Well I for one think that is so on topic that congrats are a must. Only if his wife is over 10 years old. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Sep 25 02:07:53 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <007901c025d0$b26b5de0$f50e9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >Likely the W9x tendancy to eat itself is why it needed BSD. ;) >I hate win9x. As much as I would "like" to hate windows, I seem to have beaten the beast into submission currently so that it is no worse than driving an old foreign pickup instead of a Porsche. Having so recently won the battle with a HP pavillion (k62-366 6360), my first suggestion is to dig at the HP website until you have the "right" place for your exact system. The HP hardware newsgroup also isn't bad for questions of most types. BTW my sort of working Vectra is a 5/75 I picked out of the trash. Seems ok, but no OS on a hard drive yet, maybe this week it gets some Linux. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Sep 25 04:10:32 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: <39CE1B9E.30B442E6@idirect.com> Message-ID: >I found an article on eBay that I bid on and rather than sending >a Money Order, I thought I might try paypal? Can anyone Last I checked it was USA only, but I use it, prefer it to anything else. Its immediate, done, reversible (if both parties want), and if you sell a few items on ebay to get your paypal account rolling along, its like play money. I buy stuff with my paypal money I am normally to cheap to buy with real money or credit cards. I figure, no big deal, I just dig in the garage and list a couple more items next week. From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Sep 25 05:56:05 2000 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: My first vax In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just picked up a MicroVax 3400 at a hamfest. I haven't used a vax in years (had some exposure to an early vax in the mid 80's). 1) How can I get a distribution of vms on tape for it (it has a tk70 tape drive)? I have no cdrom drive even if I had a copy of the cdrom distribution. The system is currently running vms 5.1. (I have already applied for decus membership..but it sounds like its gonna take a while before I have a membership #). 2) How can I get it to talk to SCSI devices (so I could possibly hook-up a cdrom drive)? Thanks! -Bob Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Sep 25 07:24:14 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <003c01c02695$e6e788d0$06109a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Sep 24, 2000 10:03:27 pm" Message-ID: <200009251224.e8PCOEi04911@bg-tc-ppp1055.monmouth.com> > Your right, that is lame. > > Oh, the biggest peice of foot I ever ate... small computers will never > be as prolific as they are. However, despite that I was designing with > 8008 in '73, it was interesting (and that golden opportunity). > > Allison > > > You're in good company: Don't forget Ken Olson's comment on personal computers back in the same time period. "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society Convention, 1977 -+-+=-+- ...and then again there's the following. (Both quotes are in my FreeBSD box MOTD as a reminder. One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How enthusiastic is our support for UNIX? Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many years ago. Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines. Ten percent of our VAXs are going for UNIX use. UNIX is a simple language, easy to understand, easy to get started with. It's great for students, great for somewhat casual users, and it's great for interchanging programs between different machines. And so, because of its popularity in these markets, we support it. We have good UNIX on VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s. It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and will end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming. With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With VMS, no matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of documentation -- if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all there. -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 No. 5, 1984 -+-+=-+- Didn't Arthur C. Clarke make a comment as to if an old scientest says something is possible it probably is and if he says it's impossible it may not be. There's something to remember -- people in a field often get locked in to a certain view and can't see the changes that will happen (and in DEC's case run over it like a bus over some roadkill). Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Sep 25 07:51:23 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <00Sep25.135125bst.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> *grin*. Like those quotes.... Didn't Ken also say "The future of computing is not on the desktop" thus sending Mr. Gates to IBM? He's also said something about U**x being the 'snake oil' of computing but I can't remember that one. a > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Pechter [mailto:pechter@pechter.dyndns.org] > Sent: 25 September 2000 13:43 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) > > > > Your right, that is lame. > > > > Oh, the biggest peice of foot I ever ate... small computers > will never > > be as prolific as they are. However, despite that I was > designing with > > 8008 in '73, it was interesting (and that golden opportunity). > > > > Allison > > > > > > > > You're in good company: > > Don't forget Ken Olson's comment on personal computers back > in the same > time period. > > > "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their > home." > -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society > Convention, 1977 > -+-+=-+- > > ...and then again there's the following. (Both quotes are in my > FreeBSD box MOTD as a reminder. > > One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How > enthusiastic is our support for UNIX? > Unix was written on our machines and for our machines many > years ago. Today, much of UNIX being done is done on our machines. > Ten percent of our VAXs are going for UNIX use. UNIX is a simple > language, easy to understand, easy to get started with. > It's great for > students, great for somewhat casual users, and it's great for > interchanging programs between different machines. And so, > because of > its popularity in these markets, we support it. We have > good UNIX on > VAX and good UNIX on PDP-11s. > It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will > run out of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a > real system and > will end up doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming. > With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and > quickly check that small manual and find out that it's not > there. With > VMS, no matter what you look for -- it's literally a > five-foot shelf of > documentation -- if you look long enough it's there. That's the > difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the > beauty of VMS > is that it's all there. > > > -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 > No. 5, 1984 > > -+-+=-+- > > > > Didn't Arthur C. Clarke make a comment as to if an old scientest says > something is possible it probably is and if he says it's impossible it > may not be. > > There's something to remember -- people in a field often get locked in > to a certain view and can't see the changes that will happen (and in > DEC's case run over it like a bus over some roadkill). > > Bill > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want > to go today? > | Linux: Where do you want > to go tomorrow? > | BSD: Are you guys > coming, or what? > From mbg at world.std.com Mon Sep 25 07:50:00 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: pdp-11/44, free to good home Message-ID: <200009251250.IAA26064@world.std.com> As always, contact the person listed at the end of the post, not me... - - - - - I have a PDP11X44 system. It is located in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. Free to a good home. PDP-11/44 42-inch cabinet FPP 2-TU58 tape drives 1.75 MB memory RH11 MASSBUS adapter RL11 controller DZ11 RP06 disk drive with 3 packs Please reply to: mazzoni@proconsys.com From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Sep 25 10:08:05 2000 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Sun 386i to give away Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6156D516D@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Any takers? So, we're probably looking at a total shipping weight of 80 to 85 lbs? Overestimate, to be safe... If no one else has jumped on it, I'll look into shipping costs, and let you know whether or not I can afford to take it off of your hands, and use it for NetBSD here... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich Lafferty [SMTP:rich@alcor.concordia.ca] > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:36 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Cc: port-sun3@netbsd.org; port-i386@netbsd.org > Subject: Sun 386i to give away > > I've got a Sun 386i that I rescued from the dumpster sitting here > taking up precious space. I originally thought I'd grab some disk for > it and play with it, but, well, spare time and all that. > > It has the following cards: > > 540-1062-01 (Framebuffer) > 555-1006-01 (?) > 501-1423 (Memory, populated by 270-1394's) > 501-1244 (?) > > It has no disk. It also has the storage expansion that clips on top, > but that is also empty of disks and tape, and is missing its side > panel. The floppy drive is still there, though. :-) > > I have full documentation for this guy, including all original > manuals, the full users' and programmers' documentation sets which > cover slightly more than just this machine, much of the promotional > materials for it and for the parts it at one point was accompanied by, > plus most of the purchase orders for it. I've also got a bunch of QIC > media with SunOS and OpenWindows. > > It's taking up room here, and since I haven't done anything with it > yet, I suspect I never will. It's free to whoever wants it; they'll > have to pick it up or pay for shipping -- or, if you're a BSD person > thinking about a port, talk to me. The machine itself weighs 45 lbs, > the expansion unit 25 lbs, and the documentation, um, weights as much > as a square foot of paper weighs, times three. :-) I do ask that > anyone interested take at *least* the main box and one box of > documentation (with the brochures, main manuals, and purchase order > history). > > Shipping would be from Montreal, Quebec. > > -Rich > > -- > ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 > ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From rws at enteract.com Mon Sep 25 10:18:00 2000 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: pdp-11/44, free to good home In-Reply-To: <200009251250.IAA26064@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Megan wrote: > I have a PDP11X44 system. It is located in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin > area. Free to a good home. Claimed. Richard Schauer From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Sep 25 10:24:35 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: My first vax In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000925082435.00991390@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 05:56 25-09-2000 -0500, you wrote: >I just picked up a MicroVax 3400 at a hamfest. I haven't used a vax in >years (had some exposure to an early vax in the mid 80's). > >1) How can I get a distribution of vms on tape for it (it has a > tk70 tape drive)? I have no cdrom drive even if I had a copy > of the cdrom distribution. The system is currently running > vms 5.1. As soon as I change out the TK50 in one of my current VAXen for a TK70, I can write you a boot tape. However, I'm also kind of holding off for NetBSD 1.5 (which fixes most, if not all, of the current issues with VAXen, including that annoying "Ring overrun" on the Ethernet side). That could still be a couple of months away, and I don't know if you want to wait that long. >2) How can I get it to talk to SCSI devices (so I could possibly > hook-up a cdrom drive)? You would need a Qbus-to-SCSI adapter. Such exist. They are usually not cheap, always hard to find (those that have them tend to hang onto them for obvious reasons), and not all support both disk and tape. Some are one or the other exclusively. >Thanks! You're most welcome. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Mon Sep 25 11:43:46 2000 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Ride Needed from Davis, CA to VCF 4.0 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000925094346.007bf9b0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I am going to the Vintage Computer Festival Sep 30 - Oct 1, but like a true Davis resident I have no car, only a bike. Anyone heading west on I-80 to VCF who wants a like-minded driving companion please contact me. Davis is just west of Sacramento. I'd be willing to pay for gas, or barter some PDP/LSI-11 peripherals for your troubles! Regards, Edwin From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Sep 25 12:15:50 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB15F@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Kevin- Have you found something to soothe the classic computer beast within? I have an unfinished Sol motherboard & documentation available. The motherboard actually appears to have been finished, when some previous owner decided to unsolder the connectors from the board; however, most all the IC sockets are still in place. Since the docs include theory-of-operation, you should be able to make a working Sol out of this- except, of course, it does not come with a case, keyboard, or power supply. Interested? regards, -doug q From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 25 11:27:28 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <200009251224.e8PCOEi04911@bg-tc-ppp1055.monmouth.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Bill Pechter wrote: > "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their > home." > -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society > Convention, 1977 > -+-+=-+- > > ...and then again there's the following. (Both quotes are in my > FreeBSD box MOTD as a reminder. > > One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How > enthusiastic is our support for UNIX? <...> > > -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 No. 5, 1984 Did anything ever come out of Ken Olsen's mouth that was not very stupid? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Sep 25 12:50:30 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: <003e01c02719$1f9b48f0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> I'm interested if nobody else is Francois -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 12:30 PM Subject: RE: Computer Kit / Plans > >Kevin- > >Have you found something to soothe the classic computer beast within? > >I have an unfinished Sol motherboard & documentation available. > >The motherboard actually appears to have been finished, when some >previous owner decided to unsolder the connectors from the board; >however, most all the IC sockets are still in place. > >Since the docs include theory-of-operation, you should be able to >make a working Sol out of this- except, of course, it does not >come with a case, keyboard, or power supply. > >Interested? > >regards, >-doug q From frederik at freddym.org Mon Sep 25 11:25:01 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: My first vax In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! > I just picked up a MicroVax 3400 at a hamfest. I haven't used a vax in > years (had some exposure to an early vax in the mid 80's). > > 1) How can I get a distribution of vms on tape for it (it has a > tk70 tape drive)? I have no cdrom drive even if I had a copy > of the cdrom distribution. The system is currently running > vms 5.1. VMS 5.1 is not recent anymore. You can get a license and some kits on www.montagar.com and a short intro (installing, configuring,...) on www.freddym.org I don't know if NetBSD is supoprted on this machine, but if it, you could try it out, too. It's very nice, too. > (I have already applied for decus membership..but it sounds like its gonna > take a while before I have a membership #). I think so. > 2) How can I get it to talk to SCSI devices (so I could possibly > hook-up a cdrom drive)? Shouldn't be a problem. If it has a SCSI Controller, just attach a SCSI-CDROM (preferably a DEC) and it should work. -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From geoff at pkworks.com Mon Sep 25 13:20:26 2000 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <006201c0271d$47f139a0$62a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Ah, well, I don't know about his mouth, but for awhile there several non-stupid things came off his drawing pencil. It's kind of tough for a person who has built a multi-billion-dollar company from scratch over 20 years to realize, let alone admit, that the magic may well have moved on, and that then-current realities may be different from those abroad in "The Good Old Days." Ken's quote is a particularly egregious example of this problem, but the thinking behind it was not unique to him, as anyone who's worked for the now-defunct Massachusetts minicomputer makers can surely attest. That mode of thinking, if not about that particular topic, is afoot today in Silicon Valley, and ten-odd years from now we'll look back in scorn at the obviously self-evident stupidity of industry pundits currently acknowledged as geniuses. As Yogi Berra is purported to have said, "It's tough to predict, especially the future." -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) >On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Bill Pechter wrote: > >> "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their >> home." >> -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society >> Convention, 1977 >> -+-+=-+- >> >> ...and then again there's the following. (Both quotes are in my >> FreeBSD box MOTD as a reminder. >> >> One of the questions that comes up all the time is: How >> enthusiastic is our support for UNIX? ><...> >> >> -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 No. 5, 1984 > >Did anything ever come out of Ken Olsen's mouth that was not very stupid? > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 25 12:42:53 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <006201c0271d$47f139a0$62a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Geoffrey G. Rochat wrote: > Ah, well, I don't know about his mouth, but for awhile there several > non-stupid things came off his drawing pencil. It's kind of tough for a You mean Gordon Bell's pencil :) > makers can surely attest. That mode of thinking, if not about that > particular topic, is afoot today in Silicon Valley, and ten-odd years > from now we'll look back in scorn at the obviously self-evident > stupidity of industry pundits currently acknowledged as geniuses. As You mean like all these dot.com morons? (Actually, that shake out has already begin.) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Sep 25 13:47:03 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: [OT] Paypal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, I like PayPal. It is a painless way to send money to someone else. Checks are BAD! The little numbers printed on the bottom of the check is your account number. An unscrupulous seller could print checks with YOUR account number on them and cash them, and YOU have to convince the bank to put the money back into your account. If you give someone your credit card number, they can do basically the same thing with it (though it is somewhat harder)... I have given PayPal my credit card number, so all a hacker can steal is that number. I will not give them a bank account number, because that would give a hacker access to MY money. clint On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > > PayPal doesn't work for me. Closing my warehouse put me deeply in debt and as > a result I don't have and can't get a checking account. PayPal will send me a > check but then I have to use a check cashing service which costs me 10%. > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Sep 25 14:04:04 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Getting out of touch (was Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) In-Reply-To: <006201c0271d$47f139a0$62a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000925114220.02204d70@208.226.86.10> At 02:20 PM 9/25/00 -0400, Geoffrey G. Rochat wrote: > It's kind of tough for a >person [Ken Olsen] who has built a multi-billion-dollar company from >scratch over 20 >years to realize, let alone admit, that the magic may well have moved >on, and that then-current realities may be different from those abroad >in "The Good Old Days." Actually this is an extremely dangerous condition that kills companies all the time. When you are a "pioneer" you create the rules, having created the rules you forgot that you created them, someone who is trying to beat you thinks outside the rules, and kills you. Sun actually killed DEC, and sometimes I think having a collection of the real milestones in that battle would be good. For example the Sun 3/280 was the 19" rack mounted Sun 3 architecture machine. It typically had a couple of SMD drives (Eagles) in the lower half and the card cage in the upper half of a rack. Some had a tape drive on top. This machine was directly aimed at the MicroVAX 3900 which was DEC's one-rack "killer" VAX at one time. Sun broke two key rules: You can build "commercial" timesharing systems on a commodity microprocessor. You don't have to write your own Operating System. By using the 68020 and using BSD, the Sun 3 only needed to pay for a modest OS and hardware staff (and no chip design guys), whereas DEC had to cover the cost of their custom chips, their own OS, and their own hardware and busses. Thus Sun was able to sell "tims sharing servers" for less than the equivalent VAX cost and still make enough profit to grow the company. Interestingly, Sun now sits where DEC was (their own CPU architecture/busses + OS) and so they are very vulnerable to someone to come along and kill them with open software based X86 servers. --Chuck From mark_k at iname.com Mon Sep 25 14:54:56 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Iomega Bernoulli 230MB drive Message-ID: Hi, Not classic, but a related question: are 230MB Bernoulli drives capable of reading the older 20MB 5.25" Bernoulli disks? I know they can read 44MB and various other capacities. -- Mark From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Sep 25 14:12:52 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <39CEBFDD.13119B06@timharrison.com> (message from Tim Harrison on Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:00:45 -0400) References: <003c01c02695$e6e788d0$06109a8d@ajp166> <39CEBFDD.13119B06@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <20000925191252.26352.qmail@brouhaha.com> > As for methods of learning, I don't think telling them that all cars > don't fly, when there are some that do is proper. Telling them that > cars, in common practice, do not fly, yet there are some that do, is > more effective. That might challenge the student (the one who is > actually interested) to find out for themselves which cars do actually > fly, and why. In my experience, very nearly any car can be made to fly, under the right conditions. The roller-coaster section of I-680 near Benicia used to work quite well for that purpose. But Caltrans has since flattened it out, so it's no fun any more. From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Sep 25 14:12:52 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Getting out of touch (was Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) Message-ID: <005e01c02724$a1565730$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> >Interestingly, Sun now sits where DEC was (their own CPU >architecture/busses + OS) and so they are very vulnerable to someone to >come along and kill them with open software based X86 servers. > >--Chuck Geez makes me wonder why they bought Cobalt!!! Francois From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Sep 25 14:39:18 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Getting out of touch (was Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) References: <005e01c02724$a1565730$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <39CFA9E6.A5C289EC@mainecoon.com> FBA wrote: > Geez makes me wonder why they bought Cobalt!!! I'm not sure why it should be surprising -- snarfing up potential competitors is almost always a rational business tactic. What doesn't make sense is why they assigned Cobalt such a large valuation. What I've always found more puzzling is x86 Solaris. Our customers (mostly Wall Street types these days) are still spooked by Open Source stuff, but don't care what it says on the front of the box. So we buy Penguins, load x86 Solaris and rack 'em up for a fraction of the cost (and as well as a _vastly_ better price/performance figure) of, say, 420Rs. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 25 13:06:02 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: HP 95LX In-Reply-To: <200009250224.TAA59879@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Sep 24, 0 07:24:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1261 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000925/2e4ee38c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Sep 25 13:15:19 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A help needed In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Schoedel" at Sep 24, 0 11:33:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4972 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000925/3f55e2db/attachment.ksh From geoff at pkworks.com Mon Sep 25 14:51:55 2000 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:37 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <00bd01c0272a$0faa42a0$62a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> > >> Ah, well, I don't know about his mouth, but for awhile there several >> non-stupid things came off his drawing pencil. It's kind of tough for a > >You mean Gordon Bell's pencil :) Now, now, don't get me started on this path, please! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Sep 25 14:52:30 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB160@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Kevin- > > Have you found something to soothe the classic computer beast within? Ah, sh*t, did it again, sorry everyone... -dq From richard at idcomm.com Mon Sep 25 15:16:56 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Iomega Bernoulli 230MB drive References: Message-ID: <003401c0272d$8e40d900$0500fea9@winbook> Well, they are classic enough , since the small 20MB versions were discontinued in '89, but, no, you can't read the 20 MB cartridges in the 44 and 88 MB drives, since the 20's are floppy disks while the 44's and 88's are hard disks similar to the ones offered by SyQuest. I gave one of the SCSI Removable HD drives away a month or two ago because the cartridge cost was ridiculous. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark To: classiccmp Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:54 PM Subject: Iomega Bernoulli 230MB drive > Hi, > > Not classic, but a related question: are 230MB Bernoulli drives capable of > reading the older 20MB 5.25" Bernoulli disks? I know they can read 44MB and > various other capacities. > > > -- Mark > > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Sep 25 15:26:37 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: LN03R printers available Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, NetBSD Bob wrote: > > Get a Lexmark Optra E310. The LN03 is not postscript, the LN03R is. > That E310 looks interesting, but at 400 bucks a pop, that will break > my VAX beer kitty. Well now... if anyone wants an LN03R (aka - DEC ScriptWriter) and will be at the VCF this weekend, I have a pair that could *REALLY* use a new home. Heck, I'll even throw in some extra toner kits. What's the catch? You *gotta* be there! (promise that I won't have to take them back home again), and buy me a Coke (no Pepsi!) or throw a few $$ for gas... Or if you are feeling *really* guilty, bring some old DEC goodies to trade. (I have 8's, 11's, and VAXen so there is lots of variety) -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 25 16:17:16 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Sun 386i to give away References: <20000925013600.B13991@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: I'm interested in the machine if it's still available -- Looking to work on the bsd port ;) Kevin From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 25 16:24:02 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB15F@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: Yes, actually I am... I've been talking with Richard Erlacher about a Z80 box (and trying to decide whether or not to use S100 or just make it an SBC ;) ) but I'm still open to any project at this point. What has been removed & how far is it from being operable? thanks, Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Quebbeman" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 1:15 PM Subject: RE: Computer Kit / Plans > > Kevin- > > Have you found something to soothe the classic computer beast within? > > I have an unfinished Sol motherboard & documentation available. > > The motherboard actually appears to have been finished, when some > previous owner decided to unsolder the connectors from the board; > however, most all the IC sockets are still in place. > > Since the docs include theory-of-operation, you should be able to > make a working Sol out of this- except, of course, it does not > come with a case, keyboard, or power supply. > > Interested? > > regards, > -doug q > From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 25 16:31:27 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Sun 386i to give away References: <20000925013600.B13991@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: D*mn... sorry about that. I'll stop doing this, I promise! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Stewart" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: Sun 386i to give away > I'm interested in the machine if it's still available -- .. From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Mon Sep 25 17:16:43 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Am I crazy or is someone else? Message-ID: Would somebody else take a look at this auction? I could swear that's a CD-ROM he's selling and not a vaxstation... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=445016650 Kevin From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Sep 25 17:09:38 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: HP 95LX In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:06:02 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200009252209.PAA93111@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > It's the same on the 1Mbyte 95LX (which is the model I have). Shift-filer > (leftmost application key) is setup, and then select System and Memory > from the menus. I don't know if the 512K version is like that, though. It should be. My recollection is that the only differences between the 512KB and 1MB units were the extra memory and "1MB RAM" being printed above the top right of the screen. I do remember being able to repartition the RAM between filespace and system RAM on my 512KB 95LX, just didn't do it very often. > > cable terminates in a DE3S intended for attachment to a PC/AT style > > You've been working on larger HP machines too much :-). Those have the > strange 3 and 5 pin DE connectors. Fumble-fingered me. I meant DE9S. You're right though, I crimped a bunch of those funny 3-pin connectors way back in 1984 when we installed an HP3000 Series 64 where I worked. Those connectors were expensive, too. -Frank McConnell From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Mon Sep 25 17:47:58 2000 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Am I crazy or is someone else? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00092523475803.00381@kronos> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Kevin Stewart wrote: > Would somebody else take a look at this auction? I could swear that's a > CD-ROM he's selling and not a vaxstation... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=445016650 Looking at the picture, I find it hard to see that that's a complete Vaxstation. In fact, turning up the brightness of my monitor :), I'm pretty sure it *is* a CD drive pictured. Anyway, it doesn't have a Digital logo on it :) Shame, though, I could have fitted a Vax that size somewhere at home :-). Dan -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net Oxford University Computer Society Secretary --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- From dankolb at ox.compsoc.net Mon Sep 25 17:58:52 2000 From: dankolb at ox.compsoc.net (Dan Kolb) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Am I crazy or is someone else? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00092523585204.00381@kronos> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Kevin Stewart wrote: > Would somebody else take a look at this auction? I could swear that's a > CD-ROM he's selling and not a vaxstation... In fact (and apologies for writing another reply), one of my friends says he's got one of the same types of drive sitting in front of him, and reliably (huh) informs me that it's a Hitachi CDR1700S. Dan -- dankolb@ox.compsoc.net Oxford University Computer Society Secretary --I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any comments or opinions expressed; don't trust everything you read above-- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Sep 25 17:54:31 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <004b01c02744$fc5a0030$38099a8d@ajp166> From: Bill Pechter >You're in good company: Keep in mind I had little touch with leadign edge tech back in 70/71 when I made my school choices. I was fixing tube based equippment mostly and an IC was rather crude stuff. >"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their >home." > -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society > Convention, 1977 In one sense he was right but the desktop and killer apps like spreadsheets and user friendly databases were phase one and new. It took more than that to get the kitchen computer real. The internet or more correctly the ubiqious communications it represents was phase two. > difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS > is that it's all there. > -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 No. 5, 1984 > Around the same time I got a Unix the unsystem teeshirt. UNIX in a no symbol (red slashed circle). By time it was getting somewhat worn AT&T made unix a DOD standard and Ultrix was hot soon after. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Sep 25 17:58:54 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <004c01c02744$fd007960$38099a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >I got to "play around" with a 1KW CO2 laser this way. After getting tired Same here college was a chance to talk to others and also access somethings I didn't have access too in the two way comms industry. As a result while others were studying neon lamp relaxation oscillators and I was using the faraday cage for very small signal expriments or mapping VHF oscillators phase noise. Allison From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Mon Sep 25 18:05:32 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: OT: worldwide wireless messaging (was Re: HP 95LX) In-Reply-To: <200009250224.TAA59879@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 07:24:18PM -0700 References: <200009242318.QAA12256@stockholm.ptloma.edu> <200009250224.TAA59879@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20000925160532.A8505@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Sun, Sep 24, 2000 at 07:24:18PM -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: > Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > It also came with an Ericcson MobiDEM radio modem, but I'll bet it wouldn't > > work even if the battery pack were charged. What can I do with this? > > I don't know. Probably not much, my understanding is that most of the > wireless e-mail/Internet providers have basically ditched MS-DOS (and > hence HP LX) support for WinCE and PalmOS devices. If I had one I'd > probably be looking to cause those responsible some constipation with > it. BTW are there any truly worldwide, affordable messaging systems these days? Like a 2-way paging service or email service or whatever. Even the satellite 2-way paging services I've seen use geosynchronous birds over the US and maybe Europe and the Far East, but they aren't truly worldwide. I also found info about the Garmin Global Communicator, which costs $1000 and the service is very expensive and very limited (can send a handful of really short messages for $30 a month, and going over the limit cost a couple of cents _per character_). So that doesn't fall into the "affordable" category. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Sep 25 18:10:27 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Am I crazy or is someone else? References: Message-ID: <00e201c02745$cbda9360$da721fd1@default> Sure looks like a Cd-rom drive. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Stewart" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 5:16 PM Subject: Am I crazy or is someone else? > Would somebody else take a look at this auction? I could swear that's a > CD-ROM he's selling and not a vaxstation... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=445016650 > > Kevin > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Sep 25 18:07:10 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Am I crazy or is someone else? In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Stewart" at Sep 25, 2000 06:16:43 PM Message-ID: <200009252307.QAA02158@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Would somebody else take a look at this auction? I could swear that's a > CD-ROM he's selling and not a vaxstation... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=445016650 > > Kevin > Well, simply being a member of this list I must question your sanity, and as I'm fairly sure we're ALL crazy! However, considering that seller has 89 items up for auction I'd guess he simply has his pictures mixed up. OTOH, this looks like a different pic of the same drive: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=447560154 and this looks like the same pic: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=443947192 So my guess is that it's a Hitachi CD-ROM Model Number CDR-1700S and who knows what that VAXstation auction really is, but my guess is that it's really a VS2000. Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Sep 25 18:16:54 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Computer Kit / Plans Message-ID: <005d01c02747$d14dc4f0$38099a8d@ajp166> From: Kevin Stewart >Yes, actually I am... I've been talking with Richard Erlacher about a Z80 >box (and trying to decide whether or not to use S100 or just make it an SBC >;) ) but I'm still open to any project at this point. What has been removed >& how far is it from being operable? My $0.02 is go with an SBC based design as S100 has a high overhead getting onto and off the bus. Despite Richards dislike for zilog peripherals and being less than lightining fast that combo would be easier and manageable for a fist time. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Sep 25 19:13:16 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <009101c0274e$e860bc40$38099a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >Having so recently won the battle with a HP pavillion (k62-366 6360), my FYI: if your running an AMD K6-2 faster than 266mhz you need a patch from the MS download site as there is a bug in W95 that it trips up. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Sep 25 19:11:17 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <009001c0274e$e6bc8220$38099a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >As much as I would "like" to hate windows, I seem to have beaten the beast >into submission currently so that it is no worse than driving an old >foreign pickup instead of a Porsche. On a serious note win95 is not that bad (get osr2 though), it's the MS apps that are really the major pain with office97 being a POS!~ I have one system 486 powered that has only w95 no IE/outlookexpress or added apps that runs wp6, netscape, RFDmail that is fast and tight. The basic kernal is fair what is done to it is horrors. Allison From r.stek at snet.net Mon Sep 25 19:53:27 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Burroughs Message-ID: I found this and thought someone here might find it of interest... (reply to Kevin, not me :) Kevin Willis Chester, Va US - Monday, September 25, 2000 at 11:35:50 I have several old systems and was curious if they have any value and advice on what I can do with them. All I know about them is their BIG and HEAVY. Don't know what works and what doesn't 1 - Burroughs B96 unit - Model #31821150 2 - Burroughs Disk Drives - Model B9493-80 2 - Burroughs Streaming Tape Drives - Model 15 MTS Streamer 2 - Burroughs Printers on stands - Model B9246-6 7 - Burroughs Terminals Any help appreciated Kevin Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Sep 25 21:23:48 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: VAX 4000/200 issue resolved! Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000925192038.00ac6ce0@208.226.86.10> Fascinating, thanks to Pierre-Michel's analysis of his system I was able to ascertain there wasn't anything wrong with my BA440 at all! The KA660 CPU brings the DSSI bus out to the C/D connector fingers and the CPU I had in the box was a KA640 which does not. Once I knew what should work, I reassembled the system and discovered that the DSSI drive in the rack was completely into the backplane! Youch! Anyway, all is well, I reseated/rebooted and now the DSSI drive is just fine and I'm busily installing VMS to verify the drive's integrity. (I've not NetBSD installed on a scsi disk that hangs off the Q-Bus. --Chuck From rickb at bensene.com Mon Sep 25 22:11:59 2000 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: worldwide wireless messaging In-Reply-To: <20000925160532.A8505@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: > BTW are there any truly worldwide, affordable messaging systems these > days? Like a 2-way paging service or email service or whatever. Even > the satellite 2-way paging services I've seen use geosynchronous birds > over the US and maybe Europe and the Far East, but they aren't truly > worldwide. I also found info about the Garmin Global Communicator, > which costs $1000 and the service is very expensive and very limited > (can send a handful of really short messages for $30 a month, and going > over the limit cost a couple of cents _per character_). So that doesn't > fall into the "affordable" category. > Simple answer. No. Not yet, anyway. There's some stuff on the horizon, but still a way off, and once available, it still won't be cheap. In the US, the closest you can get is CDPD, or one of the Mobitex services. Limited coverage, but, in general, it works. I use a CDPD modem (a Sierra Wireless PC-Card), and service through AT&T wireless, and it works pretty well. I use it both in Windoze laptops (Win2K, Win98) and HP 690 CE handheld. The big problem worldwide is a lack of standards in many areas...telcos, cellular, utility rules & regs, radio spectrum allocations, and signalling...it's a really ugly mix world-wide. The only real solution is to put it all into orbit, and have everything talk over a standardized 'network' created by a constellation of LEO (Low Earth Orbit) satellites. Iridium was an attempt at this...and was a dismal failure (look for a pretty cool light show in the sky when they deorbit the constellation of satellites sometime soon!). There are others that are working on getting a world-wide satellite network up, and already some of the constellations are partially built, but...building such infrastructures is incredibly expen$ive, and frought with numerous problems... on being that of making a handheld device that can transmit a strong enough signal to reach a satellite in orbit is a bit of a challenge....but not insurmountable. But again, it's all expensive. Such a system is likely to be really spendy for the early adopters to use...but it'll be world-wide, and allow for more than just data...it'll do voice (goodbye all the myriad cellular "standards"), and, perhaps even limited video. Rick Bensene From foo at siconic.com Mon Sep 25 21:52:45 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <20000925191252.26352.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 25 Sep 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > In my experience, very nearly any car can be made to fly, under the right > conditions. The roller-coaster section of I-680 near Benicia used to work > quite well for that purpose. But Caltrans has since flattened it out, so > it's no fun any more. Indeed! The trick was to try to gain as much speed as possible after coming off the preceding downgrade while trying not to fly off the roadway once you got to the curve at the bottom just before the dropout. I think I managed to hit 100+MPH on a few occasions. WHEEEEEEE!! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Sep 26 02:26:53 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: <009101c0274e$e860bc40$38099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Anybody else have a "stockpile" of restore CDs? I don't have a bunch, or even a list, but I wouldn't mind doing some trading. I think I have a few old Compaq, HP, and AST. Email me directly if interested and I will make a list. Ditto for those 1/4" thick "folders" that came with PS2 computers with a boot floppy etc. inside ( I have model 50 etc.) Ditto again for anything diagnostic. Email me with what you have, and I will work at compiling a list and post it back to the whole list. Call it the essential software list. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Sep 26 02:19:48 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <009101c0274e$e860bc40$38099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >>Having so recently won the battle with a HP pavillion (k62-366 6360), my > > >FYI: if your running an AMD K6-2 faster than 266mhz you need a >patch from the MS download site as there is a bug in W95 that it trips >up. I'm using W98, but I have the patch (or a speed related patch anyway). Lesson one for me was "carefully" make note of ALL the stinkin patches, then logically work through them all. I flashed the bios, applied all the W98 stuff, then applications. What is really annoying are the number of CDs that fairly insist on installing directx of some ancient version, for "best results". The KILLER though for a Pavillion at least, is that W98 always thinks its stuff is the best, so if you redetect some hardware it will "SAY" whatever it has is the "BEST". So many microseconds after the HP specific driver gets replaced you lockup and get to pursue manually restoring stuff in safe mode. Its actually really stinking just how well this system is running right now. Everything I toss at it, and its been a loading testing frenzy of boxes of old games, has worked just fine EXCEPT some of the really old DOS stuff. Maybe I am just better off running that on an older system anyway, like a 486/100 or that Vectra 5/75. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Sep 26 05:21:12 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: looking for pdp11/05 processor boards Message-ID: <14800.30872.366548.336212@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks...subject says it all...anybody got a set of pdp11/05 cpu boards that they wouldn't mind parting with? I'm willing to pay a reasonable sum. -Dave McGuire From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Sep 26 07:15:30 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: In a message dated 9/26/00 2:29:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > I'm using W98, but I have the patch (or a speed related patch anyway). > Lesson one for me was "carefully" make note of ALL the stinkin patches, > then logically work through them all. I flashed the bios, applied all the > W98 stuff, then applications. What is really annoying are the number of CDs > that fairly insist on installing directx of some ancient version, for "best > results". > > The KILLER though for a Pavillion at least, is that W98 always thinks its > stuff is the best, so if you redetect some hardware it will "SAY" whatever > it has is the "BEST". So many microseconds after the HP specific driver > gets replaced you lockup and get to pursue manually restoring stuff in safe > mode. > I have a 5 year old machine that I have similar problems. It has the (in)famous IBM mwave DSP modem which is fragile. Reinstalling all the updates and setting up network settings is time consuming. You should do what I do and that is to GHOST the c: drive after you perfect the installation so if it gets hosed, just reimage it. Big time saver. DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://www.nothingtodo.org From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Sep 26 09:05:55 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system In-Reply-To: <004b01c02744$fc5a0030$38099a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Sep 25, 2000 06:54:31 pm" Message-ID: <200009261405.e8QE5t307785@bg-tc-ppp374.monmouth.com> > From: Bill Pechter > > > >You're in good company: > > > Keep in mind I had little touch with leadign edge tech back > in 70/71 when I made my school choices. I was fixing tube > based equippment mostly and an IC was rather crude stuff. > > >"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their > >home." > > -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society > > Convention, 1977 > > > In one sense he was right but the desktop and killer apps > like spreadsheets and user friendly databases were phase > one and new. It took more than that to get the kitchen > computer real. The internet or more correctly the ubiqious > communications it represents was phase two. > Well, I think he was figuring the killer app was a smart terminal device (PDT or better with small local hard disk) and a fast network connection to a timesharing operation (kind of like a cross between Compuserve and a kind of Network Utility Company which would maintain the storage and apps, fix bugs and supply you with a service. This would keep Joe User from having to become their own System Admin/System Manager/Development Programmer/Hardware Support Tech. I think the Oracle Network Computer venture and NetAppliance was close to what Ken Olson would've envisioned. ('Course it would've been Vax Clusters on the server end...) > > > difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS > > is that it's all there. > > -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 No. 5, 1984 > > > > > Around the same time I got a Unix the unsystem teeshirt. UNIX in > a no symbol (red slashed circle). By time it was getting somewhat > worn AT&T made unix a DOD standard and Ultrix was hot soon after. Kool... wish It was scanned somewhere... The color printer here could do a pretty good iron-on xfer 8-). Bill > > > Allison > > > -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 26 11:14:52 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > Ditto again for anything diagnostic. Email me with what you have, and I > will work at compiling a list and post it back to the whole list. Call it > the essential software list. I have alignment diskettes, (analogs and digitals), for 8", 5.25", and 3.25" (sorry, no 3.5"), that I am taking to VCF to sell. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 VCF booth # 13 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Sep 26 11:26:12 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I have a 5 year old machine that I have similar problems. It has the >(in)famous IBM mwave DSP modem which is fragile. Reinstalling all the updates >and setting up network settings is time consuming. You should do what I do >and that is to GHOST the c: drive after you perfect the installation so if it >gets hosed, just reimage it. Big time saver. Thats the other side of my PCpersonality, totally clueless. Totally clueless test, is your ...... for dummys book indexed with postits? From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Sep 26 13:46:31 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: It runs! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000926114631.00973960@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Yes, indeed it does! It's official as of this morning -- I'm managing my own web server (a SPARCClassic at the moment, most likely a MicroVAX III later) thanks to a solid DSL pipeline, a Zyxel router (not classic - in production less than a year), and some static IPs. Next up: Mail servers! Probably a VAXServer 3100 as primary with something else I've not yet chosen as the backup. The final step will be at least one FTP server. I plan to archive as much 'classic' computing and electronic stuff from my field of interests as possible, and make it available to the group on either open (anonymous) login or by authentication (for the stuff that may still be in question, copyright-wise). Stay tuned: More updates as I make them happen. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From pdp-11 at swbell.net Tue Sep 26 13:57:53 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? Message-ID: <000801c027eb$c5a69380$0d703ed8@compaq> I recently got a PDP-11/34A, with 2 RK05 drives, about 10 packs with RSTS/E and maybe RSX-11M (not sure about what else). The main cabinet is almost completely full of cards that I know almost nothing about. I powered up the CPU, and it appears to work. I have a lot of manuals also. My question is: What should I do first? I have no idea how to clean this stuff. Right now I really want to know what I should do in preperation for setting everything up. Thanks, Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000926/82a0b72e/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 26 15:41:18 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000801c027eb$c5a69380$0d703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 26, 0 01:57:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2237 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000926/c55192f7/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Tue Sep 26 17:43:17 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > > Ditto again for anything diagnostic. Email me with what you have, and I > > will work at compiling a list and post it back to the whole list. Call it > > the essential software list. > > I have alignment diskettes, (analogs and digitals), for 8", 5.25", and > 3.25" (sorry, no 3.5"), that I am taking to VCF to sell. Fred, what does the 3.25" diskette look like, and what machine used it? - don > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 VCF booth # 13 > > From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Sep 26 17:48:34 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: looking for pdp11/05 processor boards In-Reply-To: <14800.30872.366548.336212@phaduka.neurotica.com> (message from Dave McGuire on Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:21:12 -0400 (EDT)) References: <14800.30872.366548.336212@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20000926224834.13764.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > Hi folks...subject says it all...anybody got a set of pdp11/05 cpu > boards that they wouldn't mind parting with? I'm willing to pay a > reasonable sum. Presumably you have an 11/05 backplane to shove them into? Otherwise they're not much use. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 26 17:51:32 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra Message-ID: <003401c0280c$e5e591c0$280f9a8d@ajp166> From: Mike Ford >I'm using W98, but I have the patch (or a speed related patch anyway). >Lesson one for me was "carefully" make note of ALL the stinkin patches, Yes! Also check out 98lite on the net. Take a few files from w95, a w98 cdrom(SR2!) and use that to script an install for a really nice fast W98 system. >The KILLER though for a Pavillion at least, is that W98 always thinks its >stuff is the best, so if you redetect some hardware it will "SAY" whatever >it has is the "BEST". So many microseconds after the HP specific driver >gets replaced you lockup and get to pursue manually restoring stuff in safe >mode. That can be turned of and it helps to remove the offending files. Msot of the however they are better from a robustness stand point even if they are slower and less feature laden. >Its actually really stinking just how well this system is running right >now. Everything I toss at it, and its been a loading testing frenzy of >boxes of old games, has worked just fine EXCEPT some of the really old DOS Getting some dos stuff to run is a matter of setting up the properties some to make them happy. I've run Gcadd6.1 (DOS!) under w3.1, W95, W98 and it runs killer under WinNT4 and I was told impossible. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 26 17:46:02 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Our fine educational system Message-ID: <003301c0280c$e245fcd0$280f9a8d@ajp166> From: Bill Pechter >Well, I think he was figuring the killer app was a smart terminal device >(PDT or better with small local hard disk) and a fast network connection >to a timesharing operation (kind of like a cross between Compuserve At the time there was a bias toward hardware. Also "services" Like the Source and Compuserve were new then. >and a kind of Network Utility Company which would maintain the storage >and apps, fix bugs and supply you with a service. there was that too. >This would keep Joe User from having to become their own System >Admin/System Manager/Development Programmer/Hardware Support Tech. Part of the dream (Billy Gs) was systems would be simple... Who knew? >I think the Oracle Network Computer venture and NetAppliance was close >to what Ken Olson would've envisioned. ('Course it would've been Vax >Clusters on the server end...) Yes, Ellison and fiends want to rent us everything... for a price. >> > difference -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS >> > is that it's all there. >> > -- Ken Olsen, president of DEC, DECWORLD Vol. 8 No. 5, 1984 In 1984 this was largely true. DECnet phase IV was in more places with more users than TCP/IP was at the time too. >Kool... wish It was scanned somewhere... The color printer here could >do a pretty good iron-on xfer 8-). Its a rag now. it would not be hard to do. Blue digital keys on the back and the NO symbol with lower case unix (tty font) in the front with the words "the unsystem, never had it never will". Such irony! Allison From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 26 18:07:22 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Sorry... (was Re: Need help with HP Vectra) In-Reply-To: <39CD9E15.11347.E45058@localhost> Message-ID: <20000926230154.FMNQ6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Whew! I was in a mean mood the other day. Sorry I was so scathing. I'll try and keep a more civil toungue in the future.... Regards all, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 26 18:11:56 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Tracy Kidder In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000923230005.00b61e50@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <20000926230628.FRVX6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Ooops. I guess I figured that Tracy was a lady's name. I should get a copy. It has been some twelve years since I last read it. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 26 18:20:20 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: I got married! In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000924114244.00abb8c0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <20000926232528.GREB6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <4.1.20000924114244.00abb8c0@206.231.8.2>, on 09/26/00 at 07:20 PM, Christian Fandt said: >> >> I couldn't agree more. Especially considering that you've found an >>understanding mate that is supportive of your techie side. >I feel the same. Indeed, big congrats to you! She might not know what all the DG's parts DO but she sure knows all thier NAMES by now. ;-) If I say MV or IAC16 or OCTAL, she knows I'm talking DG again. "Hey sweetie, I got the IAC, the MIOC, and the 9track card all working together!" - and she will be happy for me because she knew I really wanted the tape drive to run. I think she is also happy because once I lick the problem at hand, I guess I'm a little more social than squatting in the basement scratching my head at the rows of 15" cards laying around me. BTW, staples from my Stepdaughter's mini-stapler worked excellentlly for strapping the tape controller's device code.... The legs are just a bit bigger in diameter than the factory straps though. >> >> Speaking from personal experience, do you have ANY idea how rare that is? ;-) >Sept 13, 1998 is the date Bev & I got hitched. >> If she starts getting edgy about it, you can tell her to E-mail my own >>lifemate, Dana (kathy@bluefeathertech.com). We've been married for six-plus >>years now, so she knows very well what it means to be married to a budding >>engineer. Why thanks! I'll give that address to Chrissy. I bet she would like to compare notes ;-0. >> >> Congrats! May you have smooth sailing. Oh, and NEVER forget your >>anniversary date! Chrissy me branded with the wedding date and her birthday just before the honeymoon. Ouch! >Good luck! >-- -- Thanks all. Jeff >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Sep 26 18:32:25 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: 3.25" diskettes (was: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > Fred, what does the 3.25" diskette look like, and what machine used it? When "shirt pocket" diskettes came about, there was a lot of argument about which one would win out. The computer press argued about which one fit the pocket best, and the completely irrelevant issue of which ones were actually best. George Morrow said that the solution was obvious: cut a deal between the computer industry and the clothing industry to make shirt pockets 5.25". A number of companies went with 3", such as Amstradt, Amdek drives for Apple and Coco, and even the early Gavilans. Dysan, who almost controlled the diskette business did NOT want to retool to make hard-shell cases, etc. So they came out with a miniature version of a 5.25" diskette. It had a metal center hub, but was otherwise constructed like a "normal" floppy. But the big problem was how to get it accepted. Dysan bet the company on a giant software publishing venture. They cut deals with most of the big software companies to be able to distribute most of the "major" software packages on 3.25" diskettes. The theory was that whichever format had the software would become the standard. It didn't work. The 3.5" won out. Dysan survived, but no longer dominates the field. The Seequa Chameleon 325 was the only machine that I'm aware of that went with the 3.25". I would be very interested to know of any others. I got my 3.25" drives at local swaps. A lot of my diskettes were discarded by Micropro (Wordstar). -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Sep 26 18:34:06 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: what is a GRiD 2270? Message-ID: <8f.10aa613.27028c6e@aol.com> Saw this grid in a thrift store. I think it's a 2270 model. Its looks like a tablet computer with a flip up LCD and no keyboard. It also appears to have serial/VGA connectors and a pc card slot. any more details on it? DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://www.nothingtodo.org From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 26 18:42:19 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <39CA7F99.C553E6D3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20000926234602.HRTJ6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Ed Kirby at CPB has lots of Vaxstation 4000's with drives, keyboards, mice and monitors (17" through, god knows 30" monitors?) I got one and installed VMS thanks to DEC's hobbyist program. These are 55mhz machines with 40mb ram, a drive of your choice sizewise, and a 19" DEC branded Sony Trinitron monitor. He is asking something like $300.00 for the whole system as described above. Shipping will cost some extra but the monitors are heavy and delicate. It costs Ed some time and materials. I think I announced them before, but now I can test your's before Ed ships it. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Sep 26 19:07:35 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Tracy Kidder Message-ID: <005e01c02817$2aa8ac70$280f9a8d@ajp166> From: THETechnoid@home.com >Ooops. I guess I figured that Tracy was a lady's name. I should get a >copy. It has been some twelve years since I last read it. > >Regards, > >Jeff His full name on the cover is John Tracy Kidder... Allison From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Sep 26 19:04:55 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: looking for pdp11/05 processor boards In-Reply-To: Re: looking for pdp11/05 processor boards (Eric Smith) References: <14800.30872.366548.336212@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20000926224834.13764.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <14801.14759.185989.129383@phaduka.neurotica.com> On September 26, Eric Smith wrote: > > Hi folks...subject says it all...anybody got a set of pdp11/05 cpu > > boards that they wouldn't mind parting with? I'm willing to pay a > > reasonable sum. > > Presumably you have an 11/05 backplane to shove them into? Otherwise > they're not much use. Of course I do, man. ;) A whole machine, actually. Just sans processor board set. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Sep 26 19:12:46 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <20000926234602.HRTJ6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci22322 9-a> References: <39CA7F99.C553E6D3@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926171003.00e22100@208.226.86.10> At 07:42 PM 9/26/00 -0400, you wrote: >Ed Kirby at CPB has lots of Vaxstation 4000's with drives, keyboards, mice >... These are 55mhz machines with 40mb ram, a drive of your choice sizewise >He is asking something like $300.00 for the whole system as described >above. That is a VAX 4000/60 and even on Ebay they rarely go for more than $150. The 4000/90's go for more but they are 72Mhz machines. --Chuck From donm at cts.com Tue Sep 26 19:09:59 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: 3.25" diskettes (was: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > > Fred, what does the 3.25" diskette look like, and what machine used it? > > When "shirt pocket" diskettes came about, there was a lot of argument > about which one would win out. The computer press argued about which one > fit the pocket best, and the completely irrelevant issue of which ones > were actually best. George Morrow said that the solution was obvious: > cut a deal between the computer industry and the clothing industry to make > shirt pockets 5.25". George was always practical, if not always realistic :) > A number of companies went with 3", such as Amstradt, Amdek drives for > Apple and Coco, and even the early Gavilans. > > Dysan, who almost controlled the diskette business did NOT want to retool > to make hard-shell cases, etc. So they came out with a miniature version > of a 5.25" diskette. It had a metal center hub, but was otherwise > constructed like a "normal" floppy. > > But the big problem was how to get it accepted. > > Dysan bet the company on a giant software publishing venture. They cut > deals with most of the big software companies to be able to distribute > most of the "major" software packages on 3.25" diskettes. > > The theory was that whichever format had the software would become the > standard. > It didn't work. > The 3.5" won out. > Dysan survived, but no longer dominates the field. Gee, I guess Dysan didn't have the clout that BG has. > The Seequa Chameleon 325 was the only machine that I'm aware of that went > with the 3.25". I would be very interested to know of any others. Yes, I remember the Chameleon, but never saw the 325 model. > I got my 3.25" drives at local swaps. A lot of my diskettes were > discarded by Micropro (Wordstar). Still trying to figure out who used the Canon CMD-500 drives of which I have two. They are one of those kind where the whole top of the drive flips up to permit insertion/removal of a (apparently) flexible jacket that housed a disk of about 3.75" diameter. It was clamped for rotation by a conventional fingered plastic wheel. Jacket width was about 3.8", judging by the width of the guides, but length needed to be less or non-square on the 'business' end because of mechanical interference. Someday! - don > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 > Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Sep 26 19:25:16 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: what is a GRiD 2270? In-Reply-To: <8f.10aa613.27028c6e@aol.com>; from SUPRDAVE@aol.com on Tue, Sep 26, 2000 at 07:34:06PM -0400 References: <8f.10aa613.27028c6e@aol.com> Message-ID: <20000926192516.G13164@mrbill.net> On Tue, Sep 26, 2000 at 07:34:06PM -0400, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > Saw this grid in a thrift store. I think it's a 2270 model. Its looks like a > tablet computer with a flip up LCD and no keyboard. It also appears to have > serial/VGA connectors and a pc card slot. any more details on it? > DB Young ICQ: 29427634 > hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! > http://www.nothingtodo.org There should be a keyboard UNDER the LCD once it flips up; I have 3 of these here I need to send to Sean Rutledge (Sean, fire me off an email with your mailing address again). AFAIK they're 386s, and can also have an external floppy drive (of which I have a few). Bill -- Bill Bradford * KD5LQR mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 26 19:47:10 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <20000926234602.HRTJ6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Sep 26, 2000 07:42:19 PM Message-ID: <200009270047.RAA01483@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Ed Kirby at CPB has lots of Vaxstation 4000's with drives, keyboards, mice > and monitors (17" through, god knows 30" monitors?) I got one and > installed VMS thanks to DEC's hobbyist program. These are 55mhz machines > with 40mb ram, a drive of your choice sizewise, and a 19" DEC branded Sony > Trinitron monitor. > > He is asking something like $300.00 for the whole system as described > above. Shipping will cost some extra but the monitors are heavy and > delicate. It costs Ed some time and materials. > > I think I announced them before, but now I can test your's before Ed ships > it. I think the question is, what model of VAXstation 4000 is this? Depending on what model it might be a good price, it might not be. I don't know about everyone else, but I can't tell that from the Mhz rating of a machine. For that matter, where on earth did you manage to get that info? Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Sep 26 19:56:06 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: what is a GRiD 2270? In-Reply-To: <20000926192516.G13164@mrbill.net> from Bill Bradford at "Sep 26, 0 07:25:16 pm" Message-ID: <200009270056.RAA12940@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > There should be a keyboard UNDER the LCD once it flips up; I have 3 of > these here I need to send to Sean Rutledge (Sean, fire me off an email > with your mailing address again). AFAIK they're 386s, and can also have > an external floppy drive (of which I have a few). Yeah, I have one of these GRiDs also. Indestructable thing, sheesh. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing. -------------------- From dburrows at netpath.net Tue Sep 26 19:19:16 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:38 2005 Subject: I got married! Message-ID: <01c701c0281c$4d4e3420$a652e780@L166> >Chrissy me branded with the wedding date and her birthday just before the >honeymoon. Ouch! No the real ouch comes when you forget one of them.:) I speak from experience (ex-wife) My present wife and I have both forgotten out wedding date until a week or 2 later. Dan From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Sep 26 19:59:14 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926171003.00e22100@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20000927010115.LGBM6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> In <4.3.2.7.2.20000926171003.00e22100@208.226.86.10>, on 09/26/00 at 08:59 PM, Chuck McManis said: >That is a VAX 4000/60 and even on Ebay they rarely go for more than $150. >The 4000/90's go for more but they are 72Mhz machines. But that is only for the computer, often without mice/keyboards and definitely without the 19" color monitor. The monitors are worth quite a bit still today. If breaks down to something like $150 or $200 for the machine and periperals, and $100 or $150 for the monitor. However you break it down, $300 for a complete, tested system is a good deal. I forgot they also have 8bit color framebuffers though with 19" color monitors you probably guessed.... Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 26 20:20:52 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <20000927010115.LGBM6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Sep 26, 2000 08:59:14 PM Message-ID: <200009270120.SAA04992@shell1.aracnet.com> Jeffrey S. Worley wrote: > In <4.3.2.7.2.20000926171003.00e22100@208.226.86.10>, on 09/26/00 > at 08:59 PM, Chuck McManis said: > >That is a VAX 4000/60 and even on Ebay they rarely go for more than $150. > >The 4000/90's go for more but they are 72Mhz machines. > > But that is only for the computer, often without mice/keyboards and > definitely without the 19" color monitor. The monitors are worth quite a > bit still today. If breaks down to something like $150 or $200 for the > machine and periperals, and $100 or $150 for the monitor. However you > break it down, $300 for a complete, tested system is a good deal. > > I forgot they also have 8bit color framebuffers though with 19" color > monitors you probably guessed.... Actually for Fixed Frequency Sync-on-Green monitors that's high. To use the monitor on anything other than DEC hardware you're going to need special hardware that costs more than the monitor is worth in most cases. If the systems had 24-Bit framebuffers then it would be a decent price. However, they will make *very nice* VMS boxes if you still have apps that require a VAX. Otherwise if that's you're price range you're better off shooting for a DEC 3000 series or a lowend PCI Alpha for VMS. Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Sep 26 21:18:02 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <20000927010115.LGBM6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci22322 9-a> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000926171003.00e22100@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000926191123.00e3e310@208.226.86.10> At 08:59 PM 9/26/00 -0400, Jeff wrote: >But that is only for the computer, often without mice/keyboards and >definitely without the 19" color monitor. The monitors are worth quite a >bit still today. Actually DEC fixed frequency monitors are usually free here on the west coast. Nobody wants 'em since they can't be used with anything else. A nice Viewsonic with dual ports (one for the VAX one for the PC!) gets top dollar. >If breaks down to something like $150 or $200 for the >machine and periperals, Again, its rare that a complete computer + 48M + disk goes for more than $150 on Ebay. > and $100 or $150 for the monitor. However you >break it down, Mice/Keyboards add another $15 - $20. >$300 for a complete, tested system is a good deal. This certainly carries some weight, especially if Ed is willing to warrant that the systems will function after they arrive for some period of time. My only comment was that these are Ebay prices, and often such prices aren't "deals". (A deal is when the message comes across the list 'Free, if you pick 'em up!', that's a deal) So "missing out" on Ed's offer isn't like you won't get a 4000/60 anytime soon, just buy one off Ebay. It is cheap if you look at what the DEC resellers want but that is a totally different market/mindset (and you usually get some support from the reseller) Please don't take this as a negative, it can be feedback for Ed if you choose, but it is always interesting to hear that systems are available. --Chuck From pdp-11 at swbell.net Tue Sep 26 21:38:10 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <003601c0282b$fb0b4b20$04703ed8@compaq> All right. I'll start identifying the boards right now. I spent two months checking the CPU over before I ever powered it up. I haven't turned on the drives yet. Where on the internet can I find a site that will help me ID the cards? Thanks For All The Help, Owen From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Sep 26 21:51:57 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: Re: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? (Owen Robertson) References: <003601c0282b$fb0b4b20$04703ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <14801.24781.585076.157046@phaduka.neurotica.com> On September 26, Owen Robertson wrote: > All right. I'll start identifying the boards right now. I spent two months > checking the CPU over before I ever powered it up. I haven't turned on the > drives yet. Where on the internet can I find a site that will help me ID the > cards? http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt -Dave McGuire From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Sep 26 21:59:10 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Free to a good home: HP Paintjet XL - A classic Message-ID: <000001c0282e$e8dedc20$dd9e72d1@cobweb.net> Complete. Original manuals, manual holder, brush, original drivers disk. Clean. Very good condition. What more can I say? Oh, yeah, desirous person pays shipping from Washington, PA 15301. Please contact me off list if interested. Bill whdawson*at*mlynk.com ? Your computer will do far more than you ever expected it to, and that won't be enough. Pournelle's First Law From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 26 22:05:28 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000926191123.00e3e310@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 26, 2000 07:18:02 PM Message-ID: <200009270305.UAA16605@shell1.aracnet.com> > Actually DEC fixed frequency monitors are usually free here on the west > coast. Nobody wants 'em since they can't be used with anything else. A nice > Viewsonic with dual ports (one for the VAX one for the PC!) gets top dollar. OK, now you've got my interest! I've got a Viewsonic P815 and a DEC 17", both have the HD15-VGA and the 5-BNC connectors. Is there a way I can plug something like my DEC 3000/300LX or VAXstation 4000/VLC into one of these? > Please don't take this as a negative, it can be feedback for Ed if you > choose, but it is always interesting to hear that systems are available. Ditto with my comments. Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Sep 26 22:44:04 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <200009270305.UAA16605@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000926191123.00e3e310@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000926204214.00d30100@208.226.86.10> Zane, You betcha, I've got the VLC plugged into the RGB connections on my P815 right now. Change input ports and voila, VAX display. The PT775 does this as well. As far as I can tell all Viewsonic monitors with RGB inputs are sync-on-green compatible. --Chuck At 08:05 PM 9/26/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Actually DEC fixed frequency monitors are usually free here on the west > > coast. Nobody wants 'em since they can't be used with anything else. A > nice > > Viewsonic with dual ports (one for the VAX one for the PC!) gets top > dollar. > >OK, now you've got my interest! I've got a Viewsonic P815 and a DEC 17", >both have the HD15-VGA and the 5-BNC connectors. Is there a way I can plug >something like my DEC 3000/300LX or VAXstation 4000/VLC into one of these? > > > Please don't take this as a negative, it can be feedback for Ed if you > > choose, but it is always interesting to hear that systems are available. > >Ditto with my comments. > > Zane From sring at uslink.net Tue Sep 26 22:45:32 2000 From: sring at uslink.net (Stephanie Ring) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Free to a good home: HP Paintjet XL - A classic References: <000001c0282e$e8dedc20$dd9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <00f701c02835$649a85c0$4257ddcc@uslink.net> I would like this printer if it is still available. From: "Stephanie Ring" sring@uslink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Dawson To: Classiccmp@Classiccmp. Org Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 9:59 PM Subject: Free to a good home: HP Paintjet XL - A classic > Complete. Original manuals, manual holder, brush, original drivers > disk. Clean. Very good condition. What more can I say? Oh, yeah, > desirous person pays shipping from Washington, PA 15301. > > Please contact me off list if interested. > > Bill > > whdawson*at*mlynk.com > > Your computer will do far more than you ever expected it to, > and that won't be enough. > > Pournelle's First Law > > From pdp-11 at swbell.net Tue Sep 26 23:11:24 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <000e01c02839$0164bd00$0d703ed8@compaq> All right. I identified all the cards. I don't have any actual DEC terminals, but I have several that can emulate a VT100 and VT52. I have a cable that plugs into the PDP-11/34A Data Paths Module (M8265), and ends in a DB25 connector. How do I hook up a console terminal to run the console-ODT? Thanks, Owen From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Sep 26 23:30:02 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000926204214.00d30100@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 26, 2000 08:44:04 PM Message-ID: <200009270430.VAA23999@shell1.aracnet.com> > Zane, > > You betcha, I've got the VLC plugged into the RGB connections on my P815 > right now. Change input ports and voila, VAX display. The PT775 does this > as well. As far as I can tell all Viewsonic monitors with RGB inputs are > sync-on-green compatible. > > --Chuck Oh, WAY COOL! Now the only problem is I've got is that I've got my G4 PowerMac on the BNC's and my 4-port KVM switch on the other. I'll give the DEC 17" a try first I guess. That's the one I'd prefer to use as the Viewsonic is used for the Mac which acts as a X-Terminal for my PWS433au. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 27 01:02:01 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <200009270430.VAA23999@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000926204214.00d30100@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 26, 2000 08:44:04 PM Message-ID: >> Zane, >> >> You betcha, I've got the VLC plugged into the RGB connections on my P815 >> right now. Change input ports and voila, VAX display. The PT775 does this >> as well. As far as I can tell all Viewsonic monitors with RGB inputs are >> sync-on-green compatible. >> >> --Chuck > >Oh, WAY COOL! Now the only problem is I've got is that I've got my G4 >PowerMac on the BNC's and my 4-port KVM switch on the other. I'll give the >DEC 17" a try first I guess. That's the one I'd prefer to use as the >Viewsonic is used for the Mac which acts as a X-Terminal for my PWS433au. > > Zane Guess I'll reply to myself, I hooked the VAXstation 4000/VLC up to a DEC VRT17-W3 monitor, dug up the keyboard and hockypuck I happened to have laying around at the moment, and it's booting. This thing is *SLOW*, the text scrolling across the screen feels like 2400 baud! Hey, it's now got a crosshatched screen and mouse pointer, though I can't help but feel I should have a login.... YES, I'd sabotagued myself a while back when expermenting with this box. Put the old DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM back in place (that includes LOCAL as a transport :^) and rebooted. It now works great!!! I finally have a VAX with a graphical head on it :^) OTOH, good grief this thing is SLOW!!! It takes forever to bring up a DECterm window! Though I can move stuff around on the screen fairly fast. What can I say, I think I've gotten used to VMS on a nice fast fairly modern Alpha. Still this is very cool, I never thought I'd be running the VLC with a monitor. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Sep 27 03:44:09 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! Message-ID: <00Sep27.094409bst.46100@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> MicroVAX III? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: 26 September 2000 20:18 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: It runs! > > > Yes, indeed it does! It's official as of this morning > -- I'm managing my > own web server (a SPARCClassic at the moment, most likely a > MicroVAX III > later) thanks to a solid DSL pipeline, a Zyxel router (not > classic - in > production less than a year), and some static IPs. From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Sep 27 08:23:08 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) References: <004b01c02744$fc5a0030$38099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39D1F4BB.44B27E13@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > >"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their > >home." > > -- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society > > Convention, 1977 > In one sense he was right but the desktop and killer apps > like spreadsheets and user friendly databases were phase > one and new. It took more than that to get the kitchen > computer real. The internet or more correctly the ubiqious > communications it represents was phase two. Jerome Fine replies: I also seem to remember an article in Professional or one of the other rags (somewhere around 1985) in which Ken Olsen stated that DEC should become a "Software ONLY" company. Perhaps the real problem was that KO/DEC could not adapt to the changing market as the market went through its different phases. I think that it would be helpful to have a discussion on the different phases of the "computer" market with a view to identifying the characteristics to be expected for the next phase. Based on 40 years of seeing the market charge, I have a bit of perspective, but I am probably so out of touch with the current market that I don't have the needed insight to identify the next phase. So, how about some comments? Phase I - Characterized by very high hardware costs for tube type computers and a total lack of operating systems - up to about 1960? Dominated by IBM Phase II - Characterized by the first introduction of transistors, many more small companies along with the emergence of Snow White (IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs (Burroughs, DEC, UNIVAC, CDC, Wang, ?, ?). Some operating systems started to emerge - up to about 1975 - Still dominated by IBM Phase III - Characterized by the start of LSI. Hardware costs were still high and operating systems were mostly bundled. Volume was still low in most cases - up to about 1985 - IBM was still the major player, but no longer so dominant Phase IV - Here I start to become less able to see the market. I know that M$ started to become important along with Intel. In addition, the internet was just starting to become useful and wide spread although nowhere near the 2000 situation. The marketing model was about to shift from low volume/high mark-up to high volume/low mark-up as MS-DOS started to penetrate and the PC stated to become a commodity item. IBM become less important. Can someone else help to define this Phase IV? - up to about 1993??????? Phase V - The internet starts to become very important. Linux becomes available. How do these two aspect interrelate? What are the dominant features of Phase V? Will Phase V continue for a few more years? Phase VI - Here is the key aspect of why I am sending this email!! Is it possible by looking at the past 50 years to identify the key characteristics of Phase VI (which are probably already present) which will take us up to 2010? Notice that I think that the number of years in a given Phase seems to decrease. Is that correct? If possible, the goal of this discussion would be to achieve some sort of overall agreement on the different past phases (not really too important) and some sort of forecast on what the next phase(s) will consist of. If even the probable characteristics of the next phase can be identified, that would seem to be a major achievement. I suspect that while this topic is probably OT, it is also a rather interesting question and for most list members could be considered vital for the future. Somehow, when I read the comment that Allison made, I started to think about these aspects and I began to wonder just what might be in store. Being stuck (by choice) in RT-11 and the PDP-11 does not provide a reasonable viewpoint, but I suspect that the younger members of this list might benefit from a bit of hindsight and the older members could be helped by the younger members in being able to identify future trends. Does this make any sense? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Sep 27 08:27:49 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! In-Reply-To: <00Sep27.094409bst.46100@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000927062749.009aebb0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 09:44 27-09-2000 +0100, Adrian wrote: >MicroVAX III? Yeppers. KA650 CPU, DEC codename 'Mayfair.' Wonderful board, quite a bit faster than an MV-II (KA630). They run NetBSD quite well. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 27 08:36:04 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000e01c02839$0164bd00$0d703ed8@compaq> from Owen Robertson at "Sep 26, 2000 11:11:24 pm" Message-ID: <200009271336.e8RDa4t10190@bg-tc-ppp701.monmouth.com> > All right. I identified all the cards. I don't have any actual DEC > terminals, but I have several that can emulate a VT100 and VT52. I have a > cable that plugs into the PDP-11/34A Data Paths Module (M8265), and ends in > a DB25 connector. How do I hook up a console terminal to run the > console-ODT? > > Thanks, > Owen You don't. The M8265 has no serial port. You need a DL11, DL11-W or 3rd party equivalent. The part numbers M7800, M7856 come to mind -- but it's been 15 years and I'm working from bad memory. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From ncherry at home.net Wed Sep 27 09:03:13 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! References: <3.0.5.32.20000927062749.009aebb0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <39D1FE21.404B28EF@home.net> Bruce Lane wrote: > > At 09:44 27-09-2000 +0100, Adrian wrote: > > >MicroVAX III? > > Yeppers. KA650 CPU, DEC codename 'Mayfair.' Wonderful board, quite a bit > faster than an MV-II (KA630). They run NetBSD quite well. > I'm a bit confused. In my searchings the VAX I has has a KA640. So what VAX do I have? BTW, the machines are not behaving well. The one that does boot eventually has a fault on the first drive. The other doesn't appear to want to boot it's disk. I still need to break in on the first machine (I haven't had the time yet). I'll attempt to back it up to tape (TK70). Because the machines are not behaving well, it may make it easier for my boss to let me adopt them. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Sep 27 09:11:35 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) In-Reply-To: <39D1F4BB.44B27E13@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:23:08 -0400 Jerome Fine wrote: > I think that it would be helpful to have a discussion on the different > phases of the "computer" market with a view to identifying the > characteristics to be expected for the next phase. Based on > 40 years of seeing the market charge, I have a bit of perspective, > but I am probably so out of touch with the current market that > I don't have the needed insight to identify the next phase. So, how > about some comments? I think of the time from 1977 to about 1984 as the "Punk" period in computer design. Back then, anybody with a crazy idea and a soldering iron could build a machine, scribble a manual and sell to the unsuspecting public. Rather like some bands of the time :-) The results were nowhere near as polished and professional as later versions, but they were cheap and, well, lively. I'm thinking of the kind of machine where you got a bare PCB, seven-segment LEDs, a bad TV modulator, a badly photocopied manual, awful keyboards and the like. I think one of the biggest signs of a Punk computer is the lack of any plastic mouldings -- punks can't afford toolmaking for that! Ship it in a bent-up metal box! Botch something together with fibreglass! PS. Punk computers aren't beige. Orange, maybe, not beige. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Sep 27 16:12:05 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases & a vision of the future In-Reply-To: <39D1F4BB.44B27E13@idirect.com> Message-ID: Hello Jerome On 27-Sep-00, you wrote: Jerome Fine replies: > > I also seem to remember an article . . . . So, how > about some comments? <> > > Phase IV - Here I start to become less able to see the market. I know > that M$ started to become important along with Intel. In addition, > the internet was just starting to become useful and wide spread although > nowhere near the 2000 situation. The marketing model was about to > shift from low volume/high mark-up to high volume/low mark-up as > MS-DOS started to penetrate and the PC stated to become a > commodity item. IBM become less important. Can someone else > help to define this Phase IV? - up to about 1993??????? CP/M, the first widely accepted o/s, disappears as IBM speaketh from on high, and gives the nod to MS-DOS. Apple. And the clone wars, such as Apple vs. Franklin, and the PC clones. The market was trying to get away from one or two major players. And then the advent of Atari and Commodore, making microcomputers affordable to the masses. Graphic o/s became the dominant theme, started by Macintosh and Amiga, and later picked up by Billy Gates & company. Microsoft reverses the diversification trend and becomes the de facto industry standard. > > Phase V - The internet starts to become very important. Linux > becomes available. How do these two aspect interrelate? What > are the dominant features of Phase V? Will Phase V continue > for a few more years? We see microprocessors in virtually everything, from PalmPilots to cars to microwave ovens. > > Phase VI - Here is the key aspect of why I am sending this email!! > Is it possible by looking at the past 50 years to identify the key > characteristics of Phase VI (which are probably already present) > which will take us up to 2010? Notice that I think that the number > of years in a given Phase seems to decrease. Is that correct? > If possible, the goal of this discussion would be to achieve some > sort of overall agreement on the different past phases (not really > too important) and some sort of forecast on what the next phase(s) > will consist of. If even the probable characteristics of the next > phase can be identified, that would seem to be a major achievement. I see the loss of Microsoft as the industry leader, because of the anti-trust breakup. Linux and other *nix like o/s will dominate the Third world because of one factor -- cost. Eventually the two philosophies will merge, and software will have to be made to run under either system, or any other system, such as Mac OS?? The same as the fact there are many car manufacturers, but they all use the 4 cycle gasoline engine with few exceptions. The internet will make print advertising almost non-existent. E-mail will replace the Post Office as a standard means of communication. Cable TV will be delivered via digital fiber hookups to every home, and the microcomputer will become Joe Sixpack's eye on the world. From telephone, television, security, to e-commerce. Everyone will have network interfacing standard in the home, like electrical and phone wiring is now. And people will have to give up more and more of their privacy and independence to accomplish this. Many already rely 100% on the software/hardware to do their creative thinking for them. Computers can play brilliant chess games but can't write symphonies or create works of art. The sad part is that electronic data, unlike books, can be easily changed, as there is a self limiting source. Books are safest (because of the sheer numbers involved) from tampering. and they are low tech, thanks to Gutenberg. The "number of the beast" from Revelation may very well be your internet address. I'm writing a sci-fi novel on this theme called "Numbers". > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Sep 27 10:26:40 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: We saved one! Message-ID: <20000927102640.B13164@mrbill.net> >From the guy who had the free PDP-11 system in the UK, a week or so ago: From: "Andrew Bailey" To: Subject: Thanks for help Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:27:53 +0100 Dear Bill, One Friday afternoon I sent you an email about a free PDP11. Within forty minutes the first interested people were mailing me back. I am happy to report that the machine has now been collected and is going to be put to good use. Many thanks for helping to recycle an impressive (and extremely heavy) computer system. Andrew Bailey Intelfax Developments Ltd. -- Bill Bradford * KD5LQR mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Sep 27 10:46:34 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! In-Reply-To: <39D1FE21.404B28EF@home.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20000927062749.009aebb0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000927084257.02460970@208.226.86.10> At 10:03 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Neil wrote: >I'm a bit confused. In my searchings the VAX I has has a KA640. So what >VAX do I have? Simple summary (see the VAX hardware page for more details): KA630 MicroVAX II, VAXStation II, MicroVAX/GPX II KA640 MicroVAX 3300, MicroVAX 3400, VAXServer 3400 KA650 MicroVAX III, MicroVAX 3500, VAXServer 3500, VAXStation 3200 KA655 MicroVAX 3800, MicroVAX 3900, VAXServer 3800 KA660 VAX 4000/200 Come to the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend and see one of each exhibited by yours truely :-) [Still working on the write up for the exhibit though!] --Chuck From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Sep 27 10:54:28 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! Message-ID: <00Sep27.165433bst.46095@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> I'm just a bit confused - I don't remember 'em over here in't UK and I've been in the DEC arena since 1984.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Lane [mailto:kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com] > Sent: 27 September 2000 15:01 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: It runs! > > > At 09:44 27-09-2000 +0100, Adrian wrote: > > >MicroVAX III? > > Yeppers. KA650 CPU, DEC codename 'Mayfair.' Wonderful > board, quite a bit > faster than an MV-II (KA630). They run NetBSD quite well. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > -=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living > thing in our > own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Sep 27 10:48:57 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases & a vision of the future In-Reply-To: References: <39D1F4BB.44B27E13@idirect.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000927104640.022d78a0@pc> At 03:12 PM 9/27/00 -0600, Gary Hildebrand wrote: >CP/M, the first widely accepted o/s, disappears as IBM speaketh from on >high, and gives the nod to MS-DOS. And if they hadn't, we'd still be able to type "user 1" in a command shell today. :-) Uh oh, it worked: E:\WINNT\system32>user 1 E:\WINNT\system32> E:\WINNT\system32>which user.exe Found E:\WINNT\system32\user.exe - John From vaxman at uswest.net Wed Sep 27 10:51:54 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) In-Reply-To: <39D1F4BB.44B27E13@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > I think that it would be helpful to have a discussion on the different > phases of the "computer" market with a view to identifying the > characteristics to be expected for the next phase. Based on > 40 years of seeing the market charge, I have a bit of perspective, > but I am probably so out of touch with the current market that > I don't have the needed insight to identify the next phase. So, how > about some comments? > > Phase I - Characterized by very high hardware costs for tube type > computers and a total lack of operating systems - up to about 1960? > Dominated by IBM > Not really computers IMHO (no flames please). These systems were wired up with patch cables to perform specific calculations, then rewired for the next. Although the patch cables can be considered a form of 'stored program', it's just not the same. > Phase II - Characterized by the first introduction of transistors, > many more small companies along with the emergence of Snow > White (IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs (Burroughs, DEC, UNIVAC, > CDC, Wang, ?, ?). Some operating systems started to emerge - > up to about 1975 - Still dominated by IBM > Operating systems weren't available until memory became small and cheap enough to give up large portion to a resident I/O library which included functions that weren't needed by the currently operating program. Anyone have an example? > Phase III - Characterized by the start of LSI. Hardware costs were > still high and operating systems were mostly bundled. Volume was > still low in most cases - up to about 1985 - IBM was still the major > player, but no longer so dominant > MSDOS wasn't available separate from the hardware until much later. I remember running a copied version of DOS on a brand new '286 clone I built from parts purchased from Jameco. I searched high and low, and couldn't find MSDOS unbundled anywhere. This was about a year or so after the '286 was released (early '90s? I don't remember) > Phase IV - Here I start to become less able to see the market. I know > that M$ started to become important along with Intel. In addition, > the internet was just starting to become useful and wide spread although > nowhere near the 2000 situation. The marketing model was about to > shift from low volume/high mark-up to high volume/low mark-up as > MS-DOS started to penetrate and the PC stated to become a > commodity item. IBM become less important. Can someone else > help to define this Phase IV? - up to about 1993??????? > Hmmm... I think you've blurred the lines a bit too much here. The PC market with MS software became mainstream in the mid to late 80's. IIRC, that is when PC's (and to a much lesser extent Macs) became standard equipment on people's desktops. The internet was being used by universities since the early 80's, and the basic tools were in place ftp,mail,archie,gopher,etc. (anybody remember veronica?) The WWW wasn't 'invented' until the mid-90s. My first exposure was NCSA-mosaic in '94, prior to the founding of Netscape by the students who wrote mosaic. > Phase V - The internet starts to become very important. Linux > becomes available. How do these two aspect interrelate? What > are the dominant features of Phase V? Will Phase V continue > for a few more years? > Linux 'is' because of the internet (but not vice-versa). Very few people could afford the costs to copy an operating systems onto floppies and nobody had a 9-track tape attached to their PC (well almost nobody, I hung around some odd characters). The wide availablility of the internet made it cheap and easy to download. Also, most people forget Linus T. only wrote the Linux kernel (copied portions from Minix IIRC). The remainder is the Free Software Foundation clones of the AT&T Unix tools (gcc, etc). Linux wouldn't exist without these tools also. > Phase VI - Here is the key aspect of why I am sending this email!! > Is it possible by looking at the past 50 years to identify the key > characteristics of Phase VI (which are probably already present) > which will take us up to 2010? Notice that I think that the number > of years in a given Phase seems to decrease. Is that correct? > If possible, the goal of this discussion would be to achieve some > sort of overall agreement on the different past phases (not really > too important) and some sort of forecast on what the next phase(s) > will consist of. If even the probable characteristics of the next > phase can be identified, that would seem to be a major achievement. > My stake in the ground: 1) Very few On-Demand services (music, video, etc). The current bandwidth has trouble supporting the limited number of users running 'conventional' music and video feeds (everyone gets the same feed). It will not be possible to supply everyone with their own selection of audio and video feeds. You might have noticed there aren't commercials (AT&T?) advertising movies on demand anymore. 2) Continued net congestion, with the creation of more private high speed networks. As network bandwidth increases, more users will jump on, reducing the available bandwidth to the current level of pain. This is self regulating. As the network gets slower, fewer people use it, speeding it up. Companies that can afford it will use private high-speed networks for internal communication. This is going to be a huge growth area, but will plateau relativly quickly since the number of companies that can afford such a service is small. 3) A continued move away from standalone PCs, toward the net-pliance system. Based on the failure of DivX, I don't think people will rent software, so the appliance needs to be programmable and upgradable, so a secure facility for selling software across the internet needs to be developed. Perhaps software manufactures should give away CD-ROMs with their latest wares in demo mode, and sell the keys to unlock varying levels of functionality. 4) A move back to the glass walled computer room. IT departments are beginning to realize the cost of upgrading everyone's desktop machines every few years. The current processor speeds are adequate to run MS Word, and normal users don't need to upgrade (although they want to). With the growth of high speed LANs, most companies have moved back to a central RAID disk storage system, and have started moving toward the 'compute farm'. Now each user has a local (low power) system that is used to read email and write memos. Computational problems are submitted to the racks of high power machines for crunching. It is a lot easier and cheaper to upgrade 20 machines in a rack than 200 machines in peoples offices. > I suspect that while this topic is probably OT, it is also a rather > interesting question and for most list members could be considered > vital for the future. > > Somehow, when I read the comment that Allison made, I started to > think about these aspects and I began to wonder just what might > be in store. Being stuck (by choice) in RT-11 and the PDP-11 > does not provide a reasonable viewpoint, but I suspect that the > younger members of this list might benefit from a bit of hindsight > and the older members could be helped by the younger members > in being able to identify future trends. Does this make any sense? > I am fascinated with older machines are OSs because I can understand them. I doubt anyone understands EVERY function in MS Windows or the Intel Pentium processor. The older systems are much simpler in implementation, and more elegant in design. > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > I'm all for identifying future trends. It's the only way I'm going to get rich :) unless I win the lotto... clint From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 27 11:29:01 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000927062749.009aebb0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <00Sep27.094409bst.46100@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >At 09:44 27-09-2000 +0100, Adrian wrote: > >>MicroVAX III? > > Yeppers. KA650 CPU, DEC codename 'Mayfair.' Wonderful board, quite >a bit >faster than an MV-II (KA630). They run NetBSD quite well. Yeah, but it runs OpenVMS V7.2 even better :^) I've got one also. It was running NetBSD when I got it, but was quickly converted to a superior OS :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pdp-11 at swbell.net Wed Sep 27 11:21:48 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: <200009271336.e8RDa4t10190@bg-tc-ppp701.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000801c0289f$09d15a00$f1703ed8@compaq> OK. I now have a DB25 connector coming from the M7856 (DL11-W) RS-232 Board. I can connect it directly to my terminal. Is this all I need to do? If so, what communications settings should I use? Thanks, Owen From transit at lerctr.org Wed Sep 27 11:50:55 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Floppies Deserve a Little Respect In-Reply-To: <000801c0289f$09d15a00$f1703ed8@compaq> Message-ID: http://www.canoe.ca/TechNews0009/27_gazin.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 12:10:34 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000e01c02839$0164bd00$0d703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 26, 0 11:11:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2030 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000927/2f66e658/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Sep 27 12:41:27 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: OT: MS Future (Was: RE: Computer Market Phases & a vision of the future) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB172@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > I see the loss of Microsoft as the industry leader, because of the > anti-trust breakup. Nah... The Supreme Court bounced it back into the D.C. Court of Appeals, and the D.C. Court of Appeals hates Judge Jackson worse than everyone hates MS, so it's lookin' pretty good for 'ol BG. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Sep 27 12:08:36 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was : Login on VMS)) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB171@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > Phase III - Characterized by the start of LSI. Hardware costs were > > still high and operating systems were mostly bundled. Volume was > > still low in most cases - up to about 1985 - IBM was still the major > > player, but no longer so dominant > > MSDOS wasn't available separate from the hardware until much later. > I remember running a copied version of DOS on a brand new '286 clone > I built from parts purchased from Jameco. I searched high and low, > and couldn't find MSDOS unbundled anywhere. This was about a year or > so after the '286 was released (early '90s? I don't remember) Also not quite right... alhtough it certainly wasn't a shrink-wrapped product, you could purchase MS-DOS without hardware by buying the Binary Adaptation Kit. These were available from at least MS-DOS 1.25, and maybe for MS-DOS 1.1 as well. Pretty cool, you got .OBJ files (or were they still .REL files?) for most of DOS, and source for drivers and utilities (ANSI.SYS and PRINT.COM come to mind). regards, -doug q From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 13:46:40 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000801c0289f$09d15a00$f1703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 27, 0 11:21:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1113 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000927/fd5520c7/attachment.ksh From pdp-11 at swbell.net Wed Sep 27 14:37:57 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <000e01c028ba$70f36000$2f723ed8@compaq> All right. The following cards are in my system: (1) M9302 11/04 UNIBUS Terminator (1) M7257 RK05 Bus Control Module (1) M7256 RK05 Register Module (1) M7255 RK05 Disk Control Module (1) M7254 RK05 Status Control Module (1) M920 UNIBUS Connector (2) M7856 RS-232 SLU & Real-Time Clock Option (1) M7819 8-Line Double Buffered ASYNC EIA With Modem Control (8) M7847 RAM (2) M7850 Parity Board For G651 (1) M9202 UNIBUS Connector, Inverted (1) M9312 Bootstrap Terminator (1) M7859 Console Interface (1) M8265 11/34A Data Paths Module (1) M8266 11/34A Control Module I have a cable that connects to the connector on the M7856. It ends in a DB25 connector. I don't have a manual for the DL 11, but the 1973-74 PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook talks about it. So, my question is, how do I attach the console to the computer, and change the communication settings? Thanks, Owen From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 27 15:47:56 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <200009270120.SAA04992@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <20000927010115.LGBM6495.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> from "THETechnoid@home.com" at Sep 26, 2000 08:59:14 PM Message-ID: >Actually for Fixed Frequency Sync-on-Green monitors that's high. To use the >monitor on anything other than DEC hardware you're going to need special Anybody in SoCal that wants one, I can usually find them for about $50. I brought home a VERY NICE Sony GDM 1601 last week that does 1280x1024 beautifully, but still left more of them behind even at great prices, as I find few people that want them. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 27 15:36:19 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Need help with HP Vectra In-Reply-To: <003401c0280c$e5e591c0$280f9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >>The KILLER though for a Pavillion at least, is that W98 always thinks >its >>stuff is the best, so if you redetect some hardware it will "SAY" >That can be turned of and it helps to remove the offending files. Msot >of the >however they are better from a robustness stand point even if they are >slower and less feature laden. Its more of a w98 sees a "chip" it recognizes and assumes its a card, not some onboard stuff that is half proprietary HP. Remove the Hp software and it locks up, crashes, GPF, etc. and then its "safe mode" until you have the HP software restored, which for a bit meant "Recovery CD" wiping everything (now I am a little smarter and know how to grab single items". Rather than saddle my K6-2 366 Voodoo3 system with old bit map DOS programs, I think I will rely on my hoard of vintage systems where DOS is native. From gwynp at artware.qc.ca Wed Sep 27 15:19:33 2000 From: gwynp at artware.qc.ca (gwynp@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 27-Sep-2000 Mike Ford wrote: >>Actually for Fixed Frequency Sync-on-Green monitors that's high. To use >>the monitor on anything other than DEC hardware you're going to need >>special > > Anybody in SoCal that wants one, I can usually find them for about $50. > I brought home a VERY NICE Sony GDM 1601 last week that does 1280x1024 > beautifully, but still left more of them behind even at great prices, as > I find few people that want them. Would something like that work on a HP Envizex X terminal. It has a d-sub 15 pin plug, but needs a sync-on-green monitor. I haven't managed to find what resolution is needed, so I haven't hunted around yet. -Philip From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Sep 27 15:42:38 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000e01c028ba$70f36000$2f723ed8@compaq> from Owen Robertson at "Sep 27, 2000 02:37:57 pm" Message-ID: <200009272042.e8RKgdt11138@bg-tc-ppp470.monmouth.com> > I have a cable that connects to the connector on the M7856. It ends in a > DB25 connector. I don't have a manual for the DL 11, but the 1973-74 PDP-11 > Peripherals Handbook talks about it. So, my question is, how do I attach the > console to the computer, and change the communication settings? > > Thanks, > Owen > > > Well, the comm settings are dipswitches on the DL11-W serial port/line clock board. The cable's a null modem. (The PDP11 doesn't use any flow control on it so it should be something like this: (BTW -- you may just need to get 6 and 8 to 20 on the PC side if the PDP11 DL doesn't assert DTR. PDP PC 2<->3 3<->2 7<->7 -4 | _5 -6 20--| -8 Anyone have the DL11-W dip switches. The console usually runs at 1200 Baud (if it had an LA120), 300 baud if it was an LA36, or 9600 baud for a Video Terminal like a VT100 or VT52. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 27 15:41:02 2000 From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: We saved one! In-Reply-To: <20000927102640.B13164@mrbill.net> Message-ID: I was the lucky person who managed to reply first. Firstly I can confirm it was very heavy and not on the ground floor either! Some details of what was saved : PDP11/44, RL02 drive, TS05 tape drive, dual DECcassette drive, and lurking underneath it all at Micro 11/73. RSX-11M-Plus V3.0 installed on the 11/73. I have powered up the 11/73, but the rest will need to wait a while. I will however catalog the cards in the '44. Interesting pair of cards in the 11/73: The machine was used to prepare TeleText pages. (Not sure what or if is the US equivalent.) The two cards seem to be designed to insert signals into a video stream. Sadly no useful identification on the two cards. If anyone knows about these and can make use of them, let me know as I can't use them. Kevin Murrell -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Bradford Sent: 27 September 2000 16:27 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: We saved one! >From the guy who had the free PDP-11 system in the UK, a week or so ago: From: "Andrew Bailey" To: Subject: Thanks for help Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:27:53 +0100 Dear Bill, One Friday afternoon I sent you an email about a free PDP11. Within forty minutes the first interested people were mailing me back. I am happy to report that the machine has now been collected and is going to be put to good use. Many thanks for helping to recycle an impressive (and extremely heavy) computer system. Andrew Bailey Intelfax Developments Ltd. -- Bill Bradford * KD5LQR mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Sep 27 16:49:26 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> Anybody in SoCal that wants one, I can usually find them for about $50. >> I brought home a VERY NICE Sony GDM 1601 last week that does 1280x1024 >> beautifully, but still left more of them behind even at great prices, as >> I find few people that want them. > >Would something like that work on a HP Envizex X terminal. It has a d-sub >15 pin plug, but needs a sync-on-green monitor. I haven't managed to find >what resolution is needed, so I haven't hunted around yet. Thats the trick, you need to be at least "close" on the resolution and refresh, or no picture. Given the number of these I run across though, I would be pretty surprized not to be able to locate a compatible monitor once you know what your box puts out. BTW under the totally cool category I found this external RGB adapter box that has a digital readout for refresh, and I think sync rates. Given some luck I will have a few pictures of various items on my web site in the next day or so. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 15:36:40 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000e01c028ba$70f36000$2f723ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 27, 0 02:37:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000927/aac6ae7a/attachment.ksh From pdp-11 at swbell.net Wed Sep 27 15:24:00 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: <000e01c028ba$70f36000$2f723ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <000201c028c0$e0091f60$8e703ed8@compaq> I just found the manual for the DL-11W. I Found out all the communication settings, and set up my terminal. I hooked them up with a null modem cable, and nothing happened. The terminal remained blank, and the RUN light on the front panel of the computer came on. Should I try the terminal with the other M7856 card? I'm sorry I'm so dumb when it comes to DEC stuff. Thanks, Owen From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Sep 27 16:02:11 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: pdp 8 information Message-ID: <200009272102.QAA18097@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I hacked together some pdp8 documentation i've scanned in, and made it available at: http://www.itlabs.umn.edu/~lemay Not all of the links are working at the moment, but you can at least look at the CESI PDP8 Omnibus board information sheets, and PDP 8/L manuals, as well as a few sheets from Douglas Electronics Inc that show pictures of their line of DEC compatible breadboards. More info to come as I find the time to scan it in. I should someday have the doc of PDP 8/E Pascal as written at the University of Minnesota, plus the RX01 images available. Also Pascal-S doc, and a variety of doc on floating point programming for the 8/e (which was used in developing Pascal at the UofM). Somday I might even scan in the User Manual, and the Small Computer Handbook, 8/L versions... Of course, that will take a lot of free time. -Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 15:55:48 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000201c028c0$e0091f60$8e703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 27, 0 03:24:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1037 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000927/d437ef6b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 15:59:53 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: We saved one! In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Murrell" at Sep 27, 0 09:41:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1334 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000927/6ef692c1/attachment.ksh From cem14 at cornell.edu Wed Sep 27 16:19:39 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn References: Message-ID: <39D2646B.CA74F9B@cornell.edu> gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > Anybody in SoCal that wants one, I can usually find them for about $50. > > I brought home a VERY NICE Sony GDM 1601 last week that does 1280x1024 > > beautifully, but still left more of them behind even at great prices, as > > I find few people that want them. > > Would something like that work on a HP Envizex X terminal. It has a d-sub > 15 pin plug, but needs a sync-on-green monitor. I haven't managed to find > what resolution is needed, so I haven't hunted around yet. I don't have a manual with me, but my limited experience with Sun hardware tells me that probably not; the Sony monitor likely wants 67Hz, the Envizex probably outputs 1280x1024@72Hz. But I could be wrong. -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14@cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 27 16:22:13 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: It runs! Message-ID: It's only called a MicroVAX III when its used to upgrade a I or II in a BA23 or BA123, I think.. something along those lines anyway. Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 27 17:14:14 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Sync-on-Green Monitors (was: Re: Finds at Computer Parts Barn) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Sep 27, 2000 12:47:56 PM Message-ID: <200009272214.PAA00926@shell1.aracnet.com> > Anybody in SoCal that wants one, I can usually find them for about $50. I > brought home a VERY NICE Sony GDM 1601 last week that does 1280x1024 > beautifully, but still left more of them behind even at great prices, as I > find few people that want them. Anyone know a good source in Oregon for Sync-on-Green monitors that will work with older DEC workstations? I'm happy to know I can use the BNC inputs on the DEC and Viewsonic monitor I already had, the only problem being I really need at least one more monitor, if not more. Zane From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Sep 27 17:17:47 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <20000927221747.21668.qmail@brouhaha.com> > One other thing that might be a problem. The DIP switches on the > bootstrap/terminator card (M9301 or M9312 depending on which version you > have) can be set for it either to go into console-ODT (which is what you I wasn't aware that an 11/34 *has* Console ODT? Or are you talking about the very non-ODT like "Virtual Console" in some versions of the M9301 ROMs? From pdp-11 at swbell.net Wed Sep 27 18:01:24 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:39 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <000201c028d6$dcce64c0$3f743ed8@compaq> All right. Here's what's happening: I connected the terminal to the console port. I turned on the terminal. I turned on the computer. The display shows all 0s. The RUN light is on, and will not go off. When I press CTRL-HALT, the BUS ERROR light comes on. When I press CTRL-BOOT, nothing happens. I checked the settings on the M9312. Any ideas? Thanks, Owen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 17:53:08 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <20000927221747.21668.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Sep 27, 0 10:17:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1027 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000927/62229a45/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Sep 27 18:20:32 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > > On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > > > I think that it would be helpful to have a discussion on the different > > phases of the "computer" market with a view to identifying the > > characteristics to be expected for the next phase. Based on > > 40 years of seeing the market charge, I have a bit of perspective, > > but I am probably so out of touch with the current market that > > I don't have the needed insight to identify the next phase. So, how > > about some comments? > > > > Phase I - Characterized by very high hardware costs for tube type > > computers and a total lack of operating systems - up to about 1960? > > Dominated by IBM > > > > Not really computers IMHO (no flames please). These systems were > wired up with patch cables to perform specific calculations, then > rewired for the next. Although the patch cables can be considered > a form of 'stored program', it's just not the same. Hmmm! Seems like I remember something about punched card input to tube type computers in that era. Wouldn't that qualify? - don > > Phase II - Characterized by the first introduction of transistors, > > many more small companies along with the emergence of Snow > > White (IBM) and the Seven Dwarfs (Burroughs, DEC, UNIVAC, > > CDC, Wang, ?, ?). Some operating systems started to emerge - > > up to about 1975 - Still dominated by IBM > > > > Operating systems weren't available until memory became small > and cheap enough to give up large portion to a resident I/O > library which included functions that weren't needed by the > currently operating program. Anyone have an example? > > > Phase III - Characterized by the start of LSI. Hardware costs were > > still high and operating systems were mostly bundled. Volume was > > still low in most cases - up to about 1985 - IBM was still the major > > player, but no longer so dominant > > > > MSDOS wasn't available separate from the hardware until much later. > I remember running a copied version of DOS on a brand new '286 clone > I built from parts purchased from Jameco. I searched high and low, > and couldn't find MSDOS unbundled anywhere. This was about a year or > so after the '286 was released (early '90s? I don't remember) > > > Phase IV - Here I start to become less able to see the market. I know > > that M$ started to become important along with Intel. In addition, > > the internet was just starting to become useful and wide spread although > > nowhere near the 2000 situation. The marketing model was about to > > shift from low volume/high mark-up to high volume/low mark-up as > > MS-DOS started to penetrate and the PC stated to become a > > commodity item. IBM become less important. Can someone else > > help to define this Phase IV? - up to about 1993??????? > > > > Hmmm... I think you've blurred the lines a bit too much here. The PC > market with MS software became mainstream in the mid to late 80's. > IIRC, that is when PC's (and to a much lesser extent Macs) became > standard equipment on people's desktops. The internet was being used > by universities since the early 80's, and the basic tools were in place > ftp,mail,archie,gopher,etc. (anybody remember veronica?) > > The WWW wasn't 'invented' until the mid-90s. My first exposure > was NCSA-mosaic in '94, prior to the founding of Netscape by > the students who wrote mosaic. > > > Phase V - The internet starts to become very important. Linux > > becomes available. How do these two aspect interrelate? What > > are the dominant features of Phase V? Will Phase V continue > > for a few more years? > > > Linux 'is' because of the internet (but not vice-versa). Very few > people could afford the costs to copy an operating systems onto > floppies and nobody had a 9-track tape attached to their PC > (well almost nobody, I hung around some odd characters). > > The wide availablility of the internet made it cheap and easy > to download. > > Also, most people forget Linus T. only wrote the Linux kernel > (copied portions from Minix IIRC). The remainder is the Free > Software Foundation clones of the AT&T Unix tools (gcc, etc). > Linux wouldn't exist without these tools also. > > > Phase VI - Here is the key aspect of why I am sending this email!! > > Is it possible by looking at the past 50 years to identify the key > > characteristics of Phase VI (which are probably already present) > > which will take us up to 2010? Notice that I think that the number > > of years in a given Phase seems to decrease. Is that correct? > > If possible, the goal of this discussion would be to achieve some > > sort of overall agreement on the different past phases (not really > > too important) and some sort of forecast on what the next phase(s) > > will consist of. If even the probable characteristics of the next > > phase can be identified, that would seem to be a major achievement. > > > > My stake in the ground: > > 1) Very few On-Demand services (music, video, etc). The current > bandwidth has trouble supporting the limited number of users running > 'conventional' music and video feeds (everyone gets the same feed). > It will not be possible to supply everyone with their own selection > of audio and video feeds. You might have noticed there aren't > commercials (AT&T?) advertising movies on demand anymore. > > 2) Continued net congestion, with the creation of more private > high speed networks. As network bandwidth increases, more users will > jump on, reducing the available bandwidth to the current level of > pain. This is self regulating. As the network gets slower, fewer > people use it, speeding it up. Companies that can afford it will > use private high-speed networks for internal communication. This > is going to be a huge growth area, but will plateau relativly > quickly since the number of companies that can afford such a service > is small. > > 3) A continued move away from standalone PCs, toward the net-pliance > system. Based on the failure of DivX, I don't think people will > rent software, so the appliance needs to be programmable and upgradable, > so a secure facility for selling software across the internet needs > to be developed. Perhaps software manufactures should give away > CD-ROMs with their latest wares in demo mode, and sell the keys to > unlock varying levels of functionality. > > 4) A move back to the glass walled computer room. IT departments > are beginning to realize the cost of upgrading everyone's desktop > machines every few years. The current processor speeds are adequate > to run MS Word, and normal users don't need to upgrade (although > they want to). With the growth of high speed LANs, most companies > have moved back to a central RAID disk storage system, and have > started moving toward the 'compute farm'. Now each user has a local > (low power) system that is used to read email and write memos. > Computational problems are submitted to the racks of high power > machines for crunching. It is a lot easier and cheaper to upgrade > 20 machines in a rack than 200 machines in peoples offices. > > > I suspect that while this topic is probably OT, it is also a rather > > interesting question and for most list members could be considered > > vital for the future. > > > > Somehow, when I read the comment that Allison made, I started to > > think about these aspects and I began to wonder just what might > > be in store. Being stuck (by choice) in RT-11 and the PDP-11 > > does not provide a reasonable viewpoint, but I suspect that the > > younger members of this list might benefit from a bit of hindsight > > and the older members could be helped by the younger members > > in being able to identify future trends. Does this make any sense? > > > I am fascinated with older machines are OSs because I can understand > them. I doubt anyone understands EVERY function in MS Windows or > the Intel Pentium processor. The older systems are much simpler > in implementation, and more elegant in design. > > > Sincerely yours, > > > > Jerome Fine > > > > I'm all for identifying future trends. It's the only way I'm going > to get rich :) unless I win the lotto... > > clint > > > From peter at joules.org Wed Sep 27 18:20:52 2000 From: peter at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) References: Message-ID: <002101c028d9$9d7e2c80$0100a8c0@snoopy> > I think I managed to hit 100+MPH on a few occasions. > > WHEEEEEEE!! I thought all Americans drove at no more than the 50? limit ;-) -- Regards Pete From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Wed Sep 27 18:35:01 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXStation 4000 VLC Message-ID: Hello all, I have a VaxStation 4000 VLC (David I promise I'm going to send the Amiga this weekend!) without an OS. I'd love to run VMS on it (I have a DECUS membership -- I love free student memberships ;) ) but I have no idea how to go about it. I have an external 1.3 gig SCSI drive for the SCSI port, an AUI -> BNC transceiver for ethernet... but no console. I'm looking for that cable to go from the serial port to a terminal. Where can I get one? Also, are there any FAQs or documents that describe installation? I have a SCSI CD (1X, woohoo!) and an NFS/FTP server. BOOTP is almost set up, DHCP already is. Can the machine come to life with bootp and tftp? Is it possible to install VMS this way? Thanks, Kevin From foo at siconic.com Wed Sep 27 17:49:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) In-Reply-To: <002101c028d9$9d7e2c80$0100a8c0@snoopy> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Peter Joules wrote: > > I think I managed to hit 100+MPH on a few occasions. > > > > WHEEEEEEE!! > > I thought all Americans drove at no more than the 50? limit ;-) Only the lame ones (the ones that invariably are in my way). Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Sep 27 19:05:00 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXStation 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Stewart" at Sep 27, 2000 07:35:01 PM Message-ID: <200009280005.RAA16704@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hello all, I have a VaxStation 4000 VLC (David I promise I'm going to send Congrats, it's a great box! It's one of the better VAXen for hobbyist use. > the Amiga this weekend!) without an OS. I'd love to run VMS on it (I have a Now there is an attitude I like :^) Don't let any of these bums talk you into running NetBSD on it :^) > DECUS membership -- I love free student memberships ;) ) but I have no idea > how to go about it. >From the sounds of things your first stop needs to be at: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ to order the VAX Hobbyist CD. >I have an external 1.3 gig SCSI drive for the SCSI port, > an AUI -> BNC transceiver for ethernet... but no console. I'm looking for > that cable to go from the serial port to a terminal. Where can I get one? Um, no idea where you can find them, I've found a couple in a junk store. Of course what I find harder to find is the DB25 plugs that plug into the cable. > Also, are there any FAQs or documents that describe installation? I have a The above URL will give info on installation, and I got a doc describing how to do it with my Hobbyist CD. Also see the OpenVMS FAQ at: http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm and the OpenVMS Doc site at: http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ > SCSI CD (1X, woohoo!) and an NFS/FTP server. BOOTP is almost set up, DHCP > already is. Can the machine come to life with bootp and tftp? Is it possible > to install VMS this way? You're not going to be able to do it with bootp or tftp. However, the fact your SCSI CD is only 1x is a good thing believe it or not, as that increases the likelyhood that it will do 512-byte blocks instead of 2048-byte blocks. You must have a CD-ROM that does 512-byte blocks in order to boot from the CD. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 27 19:09:42 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000201c028d6$dcce64c0$3f743ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 27, 0 06:01:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000928/55895867/attachment.ksh From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 27 20:34:59 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Fred, what does the 3.25" diskette look like, and what machine used it? What's your snailmail address? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Sep 27 20:39:08 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector Message-ID: <39D2A13B.3048549B@idirect.com> I acquired a couple of VT320 terminals, but I forgot about the DEC offset connector at the rear. On inquiry, I am told that they come in two flavours: (a) Separate DB25 (female or male) with DEC cable offset connection along with a separate cable with the DEC offset at each end (b) A combined DB25 female at one end and the cable with the DEC offset to be plugged into a VT320 at the other end This is a request to find out if anyone has a couple to spare at a reasonable price? If you are still using them, please don't be concerned as I probably won't get everything set up to use the VT320 terminals for about 4 weeks. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Sep 27 20:42:55 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Availability of MS-DOS (was: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > MSDOS wasn't available separate from the hardware until much later. > I remember running a copied version of DOS on a brand new '286 clone > I built from parts purchased from Jameco. I searched high and low, > and couldn't find MSDOS unbundled anywhere. This was about a year or > so after the '286 was released (early '90s? I don't remember) The gray market around here was so extensive that virtually nobody knows that it WASN'T available! (in THEORY, you could only buy MS-DOS thorough your OEM hardware supplier) MS-DOS 5.00 (4/91) was the first version that was available as a MICROS~1 retail product. There is widespread speculation that the unavailability of MS-DOS as a retail product was due to an explicit deal between MICROS~1 and IBM, that ran out in 10 years. The original PC release was 8/11/81, so the deal was probably made a few months before release. BTW, the 286 was in the first half of the 80s. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pdp-11 at swbell.net Wed Sep 27 22:03:22 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <001a01c028f8$a9ec25c0$9e703ed8@compaq> There are what I assume are grant continuity cards in all the D slots. They are all secure, and the state of the system has not changed. I haven't changed the location of any of the cards. Any suggestions? Thanks, Owen From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Wed Sep 27 22:27:18 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXStation 4000 VLC References: <200009280005.RAA16704@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 8:05 PM Subject: Re: VAXStation 4000 VLC > Now there is an attitude I like :^) Don't let any of these bums talk you > into running NetBSD on it :^) Oh, I've played with *BSD quite a bit (and like it -- it's fairly nice for a $0/os ;) ) but I've never played with VMS, something that I've always wanted to do. I may run BSD on it some day, but that would be on another hd ;) > >I have an external 1.3 gig SCSI drive for the SCSI port, > > an AUI -> BNC transceiver for ethernet... but no console. I'm looking for > > that cable to go from the serial port to a terminal. Where can I get one? > > Um, no idea where you can find them, I've found a couple in a junk store. > Of course what I find harder to find is the DB25 plugs that plug into the > cable. Actually, that's what I need... I don't have an authentic DEC terminal, just a WYSE that speaks just about everything. > The above URL will give info on installation, and I got a doc describing how > to do it with my Hobbyist CD. Also see the OpenVMS FAQ at: ... Thanks for the URLs. > > > SCSI CD (1X, woohoo!) and an NFS/FTP server. BOOTP is almost set up, DHCP > > already is. Can the machine come to life with bootp and tftp? Is it possible > > to install VMS this way? > > You're not going to be able to do it with bootp or tftp. However, the fact > your SCSI CD is only 1x is a good thing believe it or not, as that increases > the likelyhood that it will do 512-byte blocks instead of 2048-byte blocks. > You must have a CD-ROM that does 512-byte blocks in order to boot from the > CD. I've installed Linux on 5 boxen with that beast. It's still faster than doing FTP installs from my LAN, as the FTP server only has a 4X and it keeps spinning down ;) And if nothing else, I should be able to find one at the place where I do volunteer work (The Full Circle Group -- non-profit computer recycling group. We take computers from corporations that are upgrading, reformat, reinstall and give them to schools, individuals, community centres etc). There's a ton of oddball hardware there. And I've picked up a lot of great stuff -- $100 worth of SCSI cables, 10 p133 boxen, misc. networking stuff, several macs and more for the cost of my Saturdays. > Zane > Kevin From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Sep 27 23:05:52 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Sync-on-Green Monitors (was: Re: Finds at Computer Parts Barn) Message-ID: <73.728273f.27041da0@aol.com> Zane; I have a friend here in Portland who is still in the same business as I was. He specializes in monitors. I saw him pitch a bunch of DEC Fixed Frequency monitors a while back (he had to move) so I know he gets them occasionally. He always has multi syncs. Email me off the list about what you are looking for. Paxton From donm at cts.com Wed Sep 27 23:09:06 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Restore CDs, diagnostics etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Fred, what does the 3.25" diskette look like, and what machine used it? > > What's your snailmail address? You can write me at: Don Maslin 7742 Via Capri La Jolla CA 92037 - don From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Sep 28 02:13:53 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Finds at Computer Parts Barn In-Reply-To: <39D2646B.CA74F9B@cornell.edu> References: Message-ID: >gwynp@artware.qc.ca wrote: >> > Anybody in SoCal that wants one, I can usually find them for about $50. >> > I brought home a VERY NICE Sony GDM 1601 last week that does 1280x1024 >> > beautifully, but still left more of them behind even at great prices, as >> > I find few people that want them. >> >> Would something like that work on a HP Envizex X terminal. It has a d-sub >> 15 pin plug, but needs a sync-on-green monitor. I haven't managed to find >> what resolution is needed, so I haven't hunted around yet. > >I don't have a manual with me, but my limited experience with >Sun hardware tells me that probably not; the Sony monitor likely >wants 67Hz, the Envizex probably outputs 1280x1024@72Hz. But I could >be wrong. Cabana Systems (a monitor reseller) lists it as The GDM 1601 Is Driven At: 1280 x 1024 @ 66 Hz (SUN Spec), 1024 x 768 @ 75 Hz (Mac Spec). I haven't played that much with the one I bought, but on the Solbourne it looked real nice. The trick on the mac is if I have a compatible cable (darned monitor sense codes are hard to fake without hardware). So far the easiest route is to buy a PC to BNC cable and use a mac/svga adapter, but through the nose must I pay for those cables and often adapters, and I have boxes of mac video cables. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Sep 28 04:01:28 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector Message-ID: <00Sep28.100135bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Jerome typed thusly: > I acquired a couple of VT320 terminals, but I forgot about > the DEC offset connector at the rear. On inquiry, I am told > that they come in two flavours: > (a) Separate DB25 (female or male) with DEC cable offset > connection along with a separate cable with the DEC offset > at each end The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) which normally came attached to a BN16E cable like this one here - . The DB25 plug is an H8571 and there are several sub-variants depending on gender of the DB25 end and whether pins 2&3 are crossed over, plus a 9-pin version of same called an H8575 (from memory). You can also get RJ45-MMP cables, part #BN24H and BN24J depending on whether you need straight through or crossed. If your VT320 is a UK one it comes with a standard male DB25 socket on the back anyway, ISTR US ones didn't. I can probably find spares of all of the above.... cheers From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Thu Sep 28 06:00:54 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: DEC-423 MMJ -> Serial Message-ID: Hello, I'm looking for a DEC 423 MMJ to DB9 or DB25 cable. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks, Kevin From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Sep 28 06:31:03 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: DEC-423 MMJ -> Serial Message-ID: <00Sep28.123106bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> See my other reply to Jerome! > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Stewart [mailto:stewart_kevin@hotmail.com] > Sent: 28 September 2000 12:24 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: DEC-423 MMJ -> Serial > > > Hello, I'm looking for a DEC 423 MMJ to DB9 or DB25 cable. > Can anyone point > me in the right direction? > > Thanks, > Kevin > From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Thu Sep 28 06:49:54 2000 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: scsi card for microvax 3400 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can someone please look at the qbus scsi card on ebay now (item 448527001) and tell me if it will work in a microvax 3400? Thanks...if it will work in a microvax 3400, please don't bid me out. -Bob Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From dburrows at netpath.net Thu Sep 28 03:28:06 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: scsi card for microvax 3400 Message-ID: <020601c02926$2938d3a0$a652e780@L166> I already did and pasted below is the response I got from the seller. I work daily with these and unless it ends up real cheap I will not even bother with it. I would only be going for it for the odd customer that might be desperate for a replacement. Put another way I have never had a request for one to date. Dan Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:19:17 -0500 From: Phil Slaughter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel T. Burrows" Subject: Re: Ebay Qbus SCSI #448527001 References: <000901c026af$53eb0f60$a652e780@L166> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: dan, it took some research, since i sold the computer with all of the documentation a couple of years ago and just came across a few "spare parts" recently, but here it is. the is a dtc 11-1 scsi board, made by dtc and compatible with the dec manufactured ones. this particular one was used to connect 2 10.5" iomega alpha 10, 10 meg removable drives to the pdp-11. some of the info i found indicated that this controller board might also work with some sasi drives, but i'm not sure about that. hope this helps. if you should want some iomega drives for your system, if you buy this adapter, then they are available at www.weirdstuff.com/html/drives.htm. thanks for your interest, phil "Daniel T. Burrows" wrote: > Please forward the make and model of this. I am interested but I can't > identify it from the picture. > > Thanks > Dan >Can someone please look at the qbus scsi card on ebay now (item 448527001) and >tell me if it will work in a microvax 3400? > >Thanks...if it will work in a microvax 3400, please don't bid me out. > >-Bob >Bob Brown >Saved by grace >Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From ncherry at home.net Thu Sep 28 07:58:19 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: It runs! References: <3.0.5.32.20000927062749.009aebb0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <4.3.1.2.20000927084257.02460970@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <39D3406B.DEBBC7FB@home.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 10:03 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Neil wrote: > >I'm a bit confused. In my searchings the VAX I has has a KA640. So what > >VAX do I have? > > Simple summary (see the VAX hardware page for more details): > > KA630 MicroVAX II, VAXStation II, MicroVAX/GPX II > KA640 MicroVAX 3300, MicroVAX 3400, VAXServer 3400 > KA650 MicroVAX III, MicroVAX 3500, VAXServer 3500, VAXStation 3200 > KA655 MicroVAX 3800, MicroVAX 3900, VAXServer 3800 > KA660 VAX 4000/200 > > Come to the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend and see one of each > exhibited by yours truely :-) [Still working on the write up for the > exhibit though!] I live in NJ and that kind of money spent would be better put to getting more computers rather than seeing them. ;-) Thanks, after I posted I went Inet fishing and found a couple of pictures not exactly the same machine as I have but close enough. Today I'm going to con-vince my boss to let me take 1 home and break into the other. They both appear to be in good condition but were probably just shut off and moved recently (<1 year ago). Now I just need to see pictures of the MicroVAX 3300, 3440 and VaxServer 3400 to determine which I have. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 09:42:38 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB17C@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > I think I managed to hit 100+MPH on a few occasions. > > > > WHEEEEEEE!! > > I thought all Americans drove at no more than the 50? limit ;-) Speed limit on most U.S. Interstate highways is 65mph... urban areas typically mandate a lower speed limit, we have a section of Interstate locally known as Dead Man's Curve that mandates a 35mph speed limit for semi tractor-trailer rigs, and another section called Hospital Curve where the limit is 50mph for both trucks and cars (and I won't even get into describing our local section known as Spaghetti Junction). Montana? and/or North Dakota flirted with no limits outside ruban areas (actually the law specified that speeds must be reasonable and prudent for the conditions or something like that), but they maye have finally done away with that due to lobbying by insurance company interests. -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 09:45:42 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was : Login on VMS)) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB17D@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > Not really computers IMHO (no flames please). These systems were > > wired up with patch cables to perform specific calculations, then > > rewired for the next. Although the patch cables can be considered > > a form of 'stored program', it's just not the same. > > Hmmm! Seems like I remember something about punched card input to tube > type computers in that era. Wouldn't that qualify? Yup... the IBM Model 650 Calculator was a card-fed machine. Tube & relay- based, it came with the model 711 card reader and model 716 line printer (which I once owned and wish I hadn't stripped for recycling 10 years ago). :-( -dq From frederik at freddym.org Thu Sep 28 12:59:56 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXStation 4000 VLC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Hello all, I have a VaxStation 4000 VLC (David I promise I'm going to send Hi! > the Amiga this weekend!) without an OS. I'd love to run VMS on it (I have a > DECUS membership -- I love free student memberships ;) ) but I have no idea > how to go about it. I have an external 1.3 gig SCSI drive for the SCSI port, > an AUI -> BNC transceiver for ethernet... but no console. I'm looking for Please read the other threads, too. That's all stuff I write for the 5th time... You just order the Hobbyist CDs, attach an external CDrom-Drive to the box, and type >>> boot dkaX00 where X will be replaced by the SCSI ID of your CD-Drive. > that cable to go from the serial port to a terminal. Where can I get one? That cable can be self-made. You should find the pinouts on www.vaxarchive.org > Also, are there any FAQs or documents that describe installation? I have a Yes www.freddym.org... Go to the Howto Section and then go to the OpenVMS section. > SCSI CD (1X, woohoo!) and an NFS/FTP server. BOOTP is almost set up, DHCP > already is. Can the machine come to life with bootp and tftp? Is it possible > to install VMS this way? No. You can't install VMS from a non-VMS Machine. And these machines boot via MOP (Maintenance Operation Protocol). You can install NetBSD/vax on it, which should run (1.5 Snapshot). -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 13:49:22 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB185@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Paul- I can't help you with parts or theory-of-operation, but if you need a working amber VT320, I've got one for sale. regards, -doug q > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Williams [mailto:celigne@tinyworld.co.uk] > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 3:46 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? > > > I spent an half an hour today operating beyond my level of competence, > but I seemed to get away with it. > > I took apart an old VT320 terminal because I wanted to measure the > display refresh rate. From disassembling the ROM I know that a frame > interrupt is passed to the microcontroller, so I thought I'd open the > case, prise apart the tube and the main PCB, connect an oscilloscope > probe to the appropriate pin on the microcontroller, power up the > terminal and get my timings. > > I was reassembling the terminal when an odd rattling and > whistling sound > made me dive for cover. This noise went on for about 15 > seconds and then > all went quiet. I very nervously approached the terminal and finished > snapping the case together. I've not attempted to power it up since. > > I had noticed that the tube bore a label claiming that it had an > implosion protection system, so several questions occur to me. > > 1. Is it possible that I've somehow blown the tube by shorting one of > its connections soon after disconnecting the power? I noticed > that there > are a number of large capacitors on the circuit board, but I > don't know > how long they take to discharge. > > 2. There are two sets of wires going to the CRT. One set of > five (six?) > goes to a cap on the end of the tube, and another wire (HT?) > goes to the > side of the tube. I took the cap off the back of the tube, but didn't > touch the wire at the side. Can that be safely disconnected? > > 3. Why would a mere software engineer be doing something this > foolhardy? > Don't even attempt to answer that. > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 28 14:05:55 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/VLC and Tape Drives Message-ID: OK, I'm stumped here. I'm trying to get it so I once again have a VAX as part of my cluster, and I'm wanting to have him be a Tape server with both a 4mm and a TZ30 drive. I've got the following setup Drive SCSI ID ----------- ---------- 2 GB HD 0 TZ30 3 CD-ROM 4 4mm 6 Here is what I see for tape drives: $ sho dev mk Device Device Error Volume Free Trans Mnt Name Status Count Label Blocks Count Cnt $12$MKA300: (LNGTOM) Online 0 $ Where on earth is my 4mm. I can't see it from the ROM prompt either. Is there something about the VLC that only lets you have a tape at SCSI ID #3? IIRC, that's the standard DEC location for a tape drive. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 14:20:59 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB186@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> !!!!! Sorry again, everyone, for what was supposed to be a private response. -dq > Paul- > > I can't help you with parts or theory-of-operation, but if > you need a working amber VT320, I've got one for sale. > > regards, > -doug q > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Sep 28 14:31:41 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/VLC and Tape Drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000928123109.0239f780@208.226.86.10> What SCSI ID is the VLC? I'm guessing its using ID 6 as the host adapter target (same as your 4mm) --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 28 13:59:30 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <001a01c028f8$a9ec25c0$9e703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 27, 0 10:03:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000928/adebec2f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 28 14:07:54 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: <00Sep28.100135bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from "Adrian Graham" at Sep 28, 0 10:01:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000928/7de77302/attachment.ksh From geoff at pkworks.com Thu Sep 28 14:53:59 2000 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <002a01c02985$d8d375e0$81a27ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Good thing you didn't take the cap off the side of the tube, as you're looking at something like 18KV there. DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR RECENTLY POWERED OFF MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. You could easily be electrocuted, and that would be, as they say, "bad." It sounds to me that when you pulled the socket off the end of the tube or put it back on you broke the vacuum stem. Most of the connections to the innards of a CRT go through the pins at that end, and in the middle is usually a sealed thin glass tube (which may be buried under a cylindrical plastic key), which is where the manufacturer attached the pump to evacuate the whole thing during manufacturing. Alternately, you may have cracked the glass frit seals around one or more of the pins when you pulled off or put on the socket. If you've cracked the stem or a seal and lost the vacuum the CRT is gonzo and will have to be replaced. -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Date: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:15 PM Subject: RE: Slowly blowing a CRT? >Paul- > >I can't help you with parts or theory-of-operation, but if >you need a working amber VT320, I've got one for sale. > >regards, >-doug q > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Paul Williams [mailto:celigne@tinyworld.co.uk] >> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 3:46 PM >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? >> >> >> I spent an half an hour today operating beyond my level of competence, >> but I seemed to get away with it. >> >> I took apart an old VT320 terminal because I wanted to measure the >> display refresh rate. From disassembling the ROM I know that a frame >> interrupt is passed to the microcontroller, so I thought I'd open the >> case, prise apart the tube and the main PCB, connect an oscilloscope >> probe to the appropriate pin on the microcontroller, power up the >> terminal and get my timings. >> >> I was reassembling the terminal when an odd rattling and >> whistling sound >> made me dive for cover. This noise went on for about 15 >> seconds and then >> all went quiet. I very nervously approached the terminal and finished >> snapping the case together. I've not attempted to power it up since. >> >> I had noticed that the tube bore a label claiming that it had an >> implosion protection system, so several questions occur to me. >> >> 1. Is it possible that I've somehow blown the tube by shorting one of >> its connections soon after disconnecting the power? I noticed >> that there >> are a number of large capacitors on the circuit board, but I >> don't know >> how long they take to discharge. >> >> 2. There are two sets of wires going to the CRT. One set of >> five (six?) >> goes to a cap on the end of the tube, and another wire (HT?) >> goes to the >> side of the tube. I took the cap off the back of the tube, but didn't >> touch the wire at the side. Can that be safely disconnected? >> >> 3. Why would a mere software engineer be doing something this >> foolhardy? >> Don't even attempt to answer that. >> From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 14:59:01 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB188@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > [VT320 cabling] > > > (a) Separate DB25 (female or male) with DEC cable offset > > > connection along with a separate cable with the DEC offset > > > at each end > > > > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) > which normally > > I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). > Does anyone know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? On mine, the connector lacks any designation; however, the cable says "DECconnect Office Cable". -dq From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 28 15:28:20 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/VLC and Tape Drives In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000928123109.0239f780@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 28, 2000 12:31:41 PM Message-ID: <200009282028.NAA07193@shell1.aracnet.com> > > What SCSI ID is the VLC? I'm guessing its using ID 6 as the host adapter > target (same as your 4mm) > --Chuck > Oh, Bleep! Now I'm feeling stupid. I'll check that when I get home tonite, that sounds about right. The first time I changed it I changed it to match the CD-ROM . Actually the first time I powered it up it and the TZ30 were on the same ID. Zane From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Sep 28 15:39:54 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was : Login on VMS)) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB17D@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <39D3AC9A.DBBBADE1@idirect.com> >Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Not really computers IMHO (no flames please). These systems were > > > wired up with patch cables to perform specific calculations, then > > > rewired for the next. Although the patch cables can be considered > > > a form of 'stored program', it's just not the same. Jerome Fine replies: I agree that the 711 and 716 referred to below had the patch cables, but also as referred to below, the IBM 650 which arrived around 1955 (if I remember correctly) was a full blown computer. > > Hmmm! Seems like I remember something about punched card input to tube > > type computers in that era. Wouldn't that qualify? > Yup... the IBM Model 650 Calculator was a card-fed machine. Tube & relay- > based, it came with the model 711 card reader and model 716 line printer > (which I once owned and wish I hadn't stripped for recycling 10 years ago). Since the IBM 650 had over 20 KByes of memory (yes I know it was on a drum, but it was still there) along with solid state memory of between 200 and 600 bytes, I really do think it qualified as a full blown computer - even though the 20 KBytes of memory (actually 2000 * 10 decimal digit values) was on a drum. And the I/O was mostly ONLY punch cards. The version of the IBM 650 (sort of dates me - doesn't it) I worked with also had 3 tape drives. I realize that the CPU was probably slower than a present day calculator. But for insurance companies, it was still far faster than a 711 and a card sorter and that 716 printer - especially the models with the tape drives. The key aspect that drove the computer revolution was that accounting with even the IBM 650 was far faster than a whole room full of clerks. IBM justified the price of each such computer based on how much it would save the customer rather than how much it cost to make the computer. That computer market held for a long time and the companies that made computers had no trouble making a profit. But I am really after what the market MIGHT be like in 2010? In industrial countries, will the use of the computer be as necessary as the telephone - indeed will most (all?) phone conversations take place via a computer via the internet? Will the internet become as widespread as phones are now? Might almost everyone have their own cell phone and land lines kept only as an older system? When will the last x86 instruction set chip be made? On a different note, might the use of cash (folding money) become so rare that only the criminal element would require this mode of exchange. If so, it might become more reasonable to ask the law abiding folk to give up a bit of their privacy, as well as the underground economy, and thereby be able to curb corruption. Since so much of the legal economy is already based on plastic and the internet (I hear that in Canada, cheques are way down and the Interact is the most popular way of buying groceries) which becomes not only safer for the buyer but many fewer bad cheques for the vendor. Eliminating cash would be a fundamental change to society. But the internet might make that possible. I don't think that this type of speculation was included in Market Phases, but perhaps. More OT I guess. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Sep 28 15:50:43 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Video digitizing in ~1976? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000928151958.00d0fc50@pc> My "Ancient Alphabetic Art" web page (at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/aaa/) generated an inquiry from a visitor. He wrote: >I recently found a photo of me & my mom taken arounf 1976. It was taken >at the Del Mar Fair in San Diego and it was a booth that took your photo >with a computer and then printed it out on an old dot matrix printer and >the photo was made up of letters - there was no variation in density so >the type of letter is what made the difference. You could get it >printed on a paper or a t-shirt. (thank god we got the paper because >there is no way we'd still have the t-shirt) I can't believe we still >had the paper. I am going to take the image to work tomorrow and scan it >and e-mail it to you. I am dying for any information about how this >picture was made and on what system with what program and if these even >still exsist. ... >Like i said in 1975 at a town fair me & my mom sat in >front of a computer and it printed out this photo on a >dot matrix printer. He sent along a scan of an old image he had. You can see it at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/aaa/erik.html if you like. I remember systems like this, too. Who made them? What were their specs (which printer, what sort of video digitizer, etc.)? I would suspect they were a franchise of some sort. - John From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Sep 28 16:55:18 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB188@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) >> which normally >> >> I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). >> Does anyone know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? > >On mine, the connector lacks any designation; however, the >cable says "DECconnect Office Cable". Yuck I have some of these, either miniDin9 or close on one end, looks like RJ11 on the other (hoped they were serial cables for Seiko label printers), but clearly marked DECconnect Office Cable. Rats. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 16:14:59 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases (Was: Our fine educational system (was : Login on VMS)) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB18A@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerome Fine [mailto:jhfine@idirect.com] > >Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Jerome Fine replies: > > I agree that the 711 and 716 referred to below had the patch cables, > but also as referred to below, the IBM 650 which arrived around > 1955 (if I remember correctly) was a full blown computer. [..snip..] > Since the IBM 650 had over 20 KByes of memory (yes I know it was on a > drum, but it was still there) along with solid state memory of between 200 and > 600 bytes, I really do think it qualified as a full blown computer - even though > the 20 KBytes of memory (actually 2000 * 10 decimal digit values) was on a > drum. And the I/O was mostly ONLY punch cards. The version of the > IBM 650 (sort of dates me - doesn't it) I worked with also had 3 tape drives. Was I thinking of a 605? Or, despite its actual architecture, was the 650 perhaps marketed as a calculator? And yeah, patch panels, still got one or two of those... > I realize that the CPU was probably slower than a present day calculator. > But for insurance companies, it was still far faster than a 711 and a card > sorter and that 716 printer - especially the models with the tape drives. > > The key aspect that drove the computer revolution was that accounting > with even the IBM 650 was far faster than a whole room full of clerks. > IBM justified the price of each such computer based on how much it > would save the customer rather than how much it cost to make the > computer. That computer market held for a long time and the companies > that made computers had no trouble making a profit. Agreed. > But I am really after what the market MIGHT be like in 2010? In > industrial countries, will the use of the computer be as necessary > as the telephone - indeed will most (all?) phone conversations take > place via a computer via the internet? Will the internet become > as widespread as phones are now? Might almost everyone have > their own cell phone and land lines kept only as an older system? > When will the last x86 instruction set chip be made? The PSTN is a nearly flawless network. Not quite, but nearly... my LOC has been overselling its switches recently. When I pick up a phone at 8:30pm EDT and can't get dial tone, I get P-O'd very quickly. Of course, we all know where all those switch connections are being used for... ;-) > On a different note, might the use of cash (folding money) become > so rare that only the criminal element would require this mode > of exchange. If so, it might become more reasonable to ask > the law abiding folk to give up a bit of their privacy, as well as > the underground economy, and thereby be able to curb corruption. > Since so much of the legal economy is already based on plastic > and the internet (I hear that in Canada, cheques are way down > and the Interact is the most popular way of buying groceries) > which becomes not only safer for the buyer but many fewer > bad cheques for the vendor. The other day, I needed to make an urgent medical purchase at the local pharmacy (chemist for some of y'all), but was unable to do so, because "the satellite link is down". When businesses begin allowing customers to run a tab (as standard policy) when they can't use their ATM cards for a transaction (and we're talking about people who would either be denied a credit card or forced into what nearly amounts to indentured servitude to get one), then I'll say we're on our way to a cashless society. But money that requires a working network link in order to be used will never be acceptable to me. It's one thing to have to wait a few minutes until they can make a connection (i.e. to get a dial tone as I mentioned above); it's another to have to come back the next day to make a purchase that's needed right _now_. > Eliminating cash would be a fundamental change to society. > But the internet might make that possible. I don't think that > this type of speculation was included in Market Phases, but > perhaps. More OT I guess. Oops, yup, there we go again, right over the topic edge... :-) -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 16:16:30 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB18B@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >> > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) > >> which normally > >> > >> I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). > >> Does anyone know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? > > > >On mine, the connector lacks any designation; however, the > >cable says "DECconnect Office Cable". > > Yuck I have some of these, either miniDin9 or close on one end, looks like > RJ11 on the other (hoped they were serial cables for Seiko label printers), > but clearly marked DECconnect Office Cable. Rats. Mine have the offset RJ-11-looking connector on both ends; one of which plugs into the adapter that has a femail DB25 on the other end. -dq From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Thu Sep 28 16:22:20 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Speed Limits In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB17C@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <000001c02992$3091cf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> I believe I saw 75MPH in rural Kansas just two years ago. [The first place I saw 65MPH return was Route 128 (Technology Highway) outside Boston. Fitting.] John A. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Sep 28 16:26:43 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Computer Market Phases In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB18A@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000928162305.01e44f00@pc> At 05:14 PM 9/28/00 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >But money that requires a working network link in order to be >used will never be acceptable to me. It's one thing to have to >wait a few minutes until they can make a connection (i.e. to get >a dial tone as I mentioned above); it's another to have to come >back the next day to make a purchase that's needed right _now_. Here in southern Wisconsin, we recently had an outage where (I think) a backhoe operator *stretched* a fiber cable, resulting in an unusually difficult-to-patch series of breaks. Everything was down in several counties for a long while: net, long-distance between counties, city-to-city, ATMs, cellular. The local bank would've given me cash if I'd known my account number when I walked in, but my ATM card wasn't sufficient - an example of how one number is better than another, I guess. :-) - John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Sep 28 16:37:27 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Video digitizing in ~1976? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB18D@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > My "Ancient Alphabetic Art" web page > (at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/aaa/) generated an inquiry > from a visitor. He wrote: [..snip..] > >Like i said in 1975 at a town fair me & my mom sat in > >front of a computer and it printed out this photo on a > >dot matrix printer. > > He sent along a scan of an old image he had. You can see it at > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/aaa/erik.html if you like. > > I remember systems like this, too. Who made them? What were > their specs (which printer, what sort of video digitizer, etc.)? > I would suspect they were a franchise of some sort. God, wasn't that yet another end-of-life application for the IBM 1130? I remember them being used for automated horoscopes and other stuff, set up at the damned mall. Two booths down was the splatter-art booth (non-computerized, what *did* they call that???). -dq From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Sep 28 22:57:46 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Speed Limits In-Reply-To: <000001c02992$3091cf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: Hello John On 28-Sep-00, you wrote: > > I believe I saw 75MPH in rural Kansas just two years ago. That was on the Turnpike. It is essentially a private highway, so it has always been exempt from Federal speed limits. > John A. I wish I were still in Montana where the 'reasonable and prudent' speed limit still rules. Most people there did 70, maybe 75. Anything over that really isn't too 'prudent'. You're more likely to hit a deer at speed than another vehicle. > > Regards from a Montana native -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Sep 28 17:33:44 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Speed Limits In-Reply-To: <000001c02992$3091cf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com>; from John.Allain@donnelley.infousa.com on Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 05:22:20PM -0400 References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB17C@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> <000001c02992$3091cf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <20000928153344.A1372@loomcom.com> On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 05:22:20PM -0400, John Allain wrote: > > I believe I saw 75MPH in rural Kansas just two years ago. > The speed limit along much of I-40 in Arizona is 75. I know, I was pulled over for doing 78 in the 75 zone a few months ago (they let me off with a warning, how kind). If I'd been driving a sports car, I could understand the accute attention, but I was driving an older green Saturn station wagon. They're pretty strict about that 75. > John A. -Seth From jimdavis at gorge.net Thu Sep 28 18:16:41 2000 From: jimdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Video digitizing in ~1976? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000928151958.00d0fc50@pc> Message-ID: <39D3D159.5586CBB@gorge.net> I closely examined one of these systems at a mall, In Beaverton Or, No less, about 1984. It contained a PDP-11/03 ( no front panel ) and a centronix high speed printer ( multiple print heads ). Can't tell you much more than that. John Foust wrote: > > My "Ancient Alphabetic Art" web page > (at http://www.threedee.com/jcm/aaa/) generated an inquiry > from a visitor. He wrote: > > >I recently found a photo of me & my mom taken arounf 1976. It was taken > >at the Del Mar Fair in San Diego and it was a booth that took your photo > >with a computer and then printed it out on an old dot matrix printer and > >the photo was made up of letters - there was no variation in density so > >the type of letter is what made the difference. You could get it > >printed on a paper or a t-shirt. (thank god we got the paper because > >there is no way we'd still have the t-shirt) I can't believe we still > >had the paper. I am going to take the image to work tomorrow and scan it > >and e-mail it to you. I am dying for any information about how this > >picture was made and on what system with what program and if these even > >still exsist. > ... > >Like i said in 1975 at a town fair me & my mom sat in > >front of a computer and it printed out this photo on a > >dot matrix printer. > > He sent along a scan of an old image he had. You can see it at > http://www.threedee.com/jcm/aaa/erik.html if you like. > > I remember systems like this, too. Who made them? What were > their specs (which printer, what sort of video digitizer, etc.)? > I would suspect they were a franchise of some sort. > > - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 28 17:25:20 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <002a01c02985$d8d375e0$81a27ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> from "Geoffrey G. Rochat" at Sep 28, 0 03:53:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2674 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000928/2a8b0610/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 28 17:37:25 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Sep 28, 0 01:55:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 583 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000928/95a4c807/attachment.ksh From richard at idcomm.com Thu Sep 28 19:10:04 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:40 2005 Subject: Speed Limits References: <000001c02992$3091cf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <000d01c029a9$9f46c100$0500fea9@winbook> 75 is pretty common here in Colorado, once you're outside themajor metropolitan areas. 65 is tops on the outskirts, and 55 as you drive through. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 3:22 PM Subject: Speed Limits > > I believe I saw 75MPH in rural Kansas just two years ago. > > [The first place I saw 65MPH return was Route 128 > (Technology Highway) outside Boston. Fitting.] > > John A. > > > From geoff at pkworks.com Thu Sep 28 19:50:58 2000 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> >> >> Good thing you didn't take the cap off the side of the tube, as you're >> looking at something like 18KV there. DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR >> RECENTLY POWERED OFF MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT >> YOU'RE DOING. You could easily be electrocuted, and that would be, as >> they say, "bad." > >IMHO the EHT (the high voltage to the final anode in the CRT) is about >the least likely supply in a monitor to give you a dangerous shock. There >are 2 good reasons for this : The mains supply is obviously the most powerful voltage source in a VT320, but it is entirely wrong to dismiss the anode voltage, for two reasons. 1. My intention was to serve a warning, not to debate the merits of which and what. Somebody who admits to being in over their head, and who managed to blow the vacuum in a CRT and who doesn't recognize the symptoms, may well not know about the possible effect of anode voltage on the human organism - specifically, their own organism. If you've ever gotten across a CRT's anode voltage - as I have - it will knock you right on your ass. 'Hurts like hell, too. Yes, I know it's a high-impedance source whose voltage drops as the current rises, but if it does 100uA at 18KV, how much does it do at 100V? Making several assumptions, 18mA at 100V is quite enough to kill you if you just happen to do it right. And are you any less dead than if you'd plugged yourself into mains current? If you get run over by an automobile are you any less dead than if you got run over by a bus? *ANY* voltage source is worthy of respect. Anything over about 40V or so can be fatal in the right circumstances and I've gotten nasty tickles off 48V phone lines on hot days when I was sweaty and foolishly not being attentive to what I was doing. I've seen people weld themselves to 5V busses with their wedding rings, and suffer serious burns in consequence. 2. Unlike the mains supply, which "goes away" when you unplug the VT320, the CRT anode voltage takes a long time to discharge. I've had TVs take a day to do so. This is often surprising to novices, who sometimes learn the fact the hard way. > >2) The EHT is pretty hard to get at in modern monitors. It's produced >inside the potted flyback transformer/rectifier assembly and sent to the >CRT connector. Everything is well insulated. You're not going to touch it >by accident. Agreed, but here was a poster talking about removing the anode connector from the CRT, presumably soon after powering the unit down. A classic invitation to "surprise" as ever I've heard one. Also, insulation on flybacks and the anode voltage lead is in an electrically stressful and hot environment, and sometimes gets friable with age. (I've got an old flyback in a junk box in my basement that amply demonstrates the phenomenon.) Even without attempting to remove the anode connector touching the wrong "insulated" thing in an old terminal without first discharging things can be very unpleasant. If you feel that getting across the anode voltage in a VT320 terminal is safe, that dying is unlikely, and that you're adamant enough about it to write to a newsgroup with your views, I ask you please not demonstrate your claims to attempt to prove your point. My whole purpose in making the capitalized comments in my original post was to save lives, not take them. Unless you've got a damned good reason to do otherwise, *ALWAYS* power off what you're working on before poking around inside, and make *CERTAIN* all the high-voltage nodes are discharged. And if for some damn-fool reason you can't do that, whenever you're poking around in circuitry with even a chance of getting a shock, take precautions. (And if you're uncertain, presume there is a shock hazard, and it is high.) In particular, keep one hand in your pocket and wear well insulated shoes on a dry floor. That way, even if you do touch something nasty the current path is less likely to be through your heart. This is *NOT* a sufficient rule, it is merely the first of many, but it is very easy to do and has saved many lives. Everybody, take care out there, OK? From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Thu Sep 28 20:11:27 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: Peter Joules wrote on 9/27/00 4:28 pm: >> I think I managed to hit >100+MPH on a few occasions. >> >> WHEEEEEEE!! > >I thought all Americans drove >at no more than the 50? >limit ;-) > >-- >Regards >Pete > not really. My friends and I went out mischiefing one evening.l didn't drive so my friend took us. We hit 130 mph on the local highway. kevin From owad at applefritter.com Thu Sep 28 20:19:44 2000 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> References: <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: <20000929011944.16343@mail.lafayette.edu> >DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR RECENTLY POWERED OFF >MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Just how recently would recently be? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ncherry at home.net Thu Sep 28 20:27:41 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Login on VMS (was Our fine educational system :-) References: <003c01c02695$e6e788d0$06109a8d@ajp166> <39CEBFDD.13119B06@timharrison.com> Message-ID: <39D3F00D.40927497@home.net> Hey I started this thread only appropriate that I put it back on track. :-) Well here are the Stats for today: 2 MicroVAX 3300/3400's up and running with the new default password of SYSTEM/MANAGER. The first one had it's drive 0 fault light on (I know not why) and I somehow managed to convince it to boot and let me alter the SYSTEM password (from the FAQ, thanks every one). The second system was a little bit more of a pain, it went smoothly until it came time to reboot reboot. But was convinced to boot with the reset and manually typed commands. I also managed to convince the boss to let me borrow one of the machines (I didn't say how long :-). Now for further questions: 1) If I have > KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI adapter can I put a SCSI disk on it and boot it? 2) the drive that is in the system (DAI0) is it an MFM drive? I'm about ready to start playing with the system, I'm torn between 1 NetBSD (I need NetBSD for testing HA code)/1 OpenVMS (I wouldn't mind writing code for it :-) or having an OpenVAX Cluster. Hmmm, the choices! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 28 20:55:13 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Speed Limits Message-ID: <006b01c029b9$03743590$360f9a8d@ajp166> From: John Allain >I believe I saw 75MPH in rural Kansas just two years ago. > >[The first place I saw 65MPH return was Route 128 > (Technology Highway) outside Boston. Fitting.] I'm old enough to remember crusing up the Northway (RT-87 NY) at 75 and have a cop pass me a give a dirty look cos the old ford was doing the best if could! Here in MA, I drive RT495 and RT going north in the AM (against traffic) and there are times when 75, aint near fast enough to avoid getting run over from behind. Yet every day I see at least one Darwin award wanna be. Stupid people tricks. Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Sep 28 21:01:54 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Login on VMS (was Our fine educational system :-) In-Reply-To: <39D3F00D.40927497@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Sep 28, 2000 09:27:41 PM Message-ID: <200009290201.TAA12393@shell1.aracnet.com> > Hey I started this thread only appropriate that I put it back on track. :-) > > Well here are the Stats for today: 2 MicroVAX 3300/3400's up and running > with the new default password of SYSTEM/MANAGER. The first one had it's > drive 0 fault light on (I know not why) and I somehow managed to convince Get a backup made you might be ready to loose a disk! > Now for further questions: 1) If I have > KSQSA/M5976-SA - Qbus to SCSI > adapter can I put a SCSI disk on it and boot it? 2) the drive that is in > the system (DAI0) is it an MFM drive? Doesn't the KSQSA only support CD-ROM? IIRC, the DEC QBus-to-SCSI adapter doesn't support disks. Looking at Megan's version of the Field Guide shows the following: M5976-AA KZQSA Q Qbus to SCSI adapter M5976-SA KZQSA-SA Q Qbus to SCSI adapter (for BA200/400 enclosures) M5977-AA RQZX1 Q Qbus (MSCP/TMSCP) to SCSI adapter I think you'd need the RQZX1 for what you want, or a 3rd party controller. OTOH, give it a try, what have you got to loose. Be nice is DejaNews still had their full archives online :^( The answer should be in there somewhere. > I'm about ready to start playing with the system, I'm torn between 1 NetBSD > (I need NetBSD for testing HA code)/1 OpenVMS (I wouldn't mind writing code > for it :-) or having an OpenVAX Cluster. Hmmm, the choices! Well, if you really need NetBSD on one for testing some code you're working on you could simply have it on a spare disk. Alternativelly you might want to keep your eye out for any VAXstation 3100's or 4000's you might be able to find. They're smaller, use less power, quieter, have built in SCSI, and in most cases are faster. Zane From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 28 21:00:07 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <008401c029ba$73336da0$360f9a8d@ajp166> From: Kevin Stewart >not really. My friends and I went out mischiefing one evening.l didn't drive so my friend took us. We hit 130 mph on the local highway. Back when I was younger...and dumber I did the Boston to NY run at 4am in 3hours and 45 minutes, the milage was 228, you do the math... remember thats an average, the peak was 134. Seems there is traffic and tools at the NY end. Allison From geoff at pkworks.com Thu Sep 28 21:22:44 2000 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <012201c029bc$294d5be0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> >DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR RECENTLY POWERED OFF >MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. Just how recently would recently be? That, frankly, is a matter of dispute. The *correct* answer is to know how to discharge the anode voltage, have the appropriate tools to do so and to measure the result to confirm success, and to perform the procedures properly. (Hint: If you don't know how, find somebody who does.) The service manual from whatever CRT-based device you're messing with should have proper instructions. And if you don't have the service manual, what in heck are you doing in there anyway? Thanks, Tom Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ncherry at home.net Thu Sep 28 21:39:50 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? References: <012201c029bc$294d5be0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: <39D400F6.9AA2C02D@home.net> "Geoffrey G. Rochat" wrote: > > >DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR RECENTLY POWERED OFF > >MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. > > Just how recently would recently be? > > That, frankly, is a matter of dispute. The *correct* answer is to know > how to discharge the anode voltage, have the appropriate tools to do so > and to measure the result to confirm success, and to perform the > procedures properly. (Hint: If you don't know how, find somebody who > does.) The service manual from whatever CRT-based device you're messing > with should have proper instructions. And if you don't have the service > manual, what in heck are you doing in there anyway? Would a 3 ft long insulated screw driver and ground wire going to a cold water pipe qualify (yes that's how we did it at a repair center)? I hated those loud bangs! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Sep 28 21:34:05 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector Message-ID: <00d701c029be$d4672b30$360f9a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). Does anyone >know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? > >-tony Tony is correct. That is the DEC description and usage save for here we do use both jack and the plug that goes into it. So MMJ is the most common MMP with it being Modified Modular Plug is right but uncommon. Allison From pdp-11 at swbell.net Fri Sep 29 00:09:30 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <000601c029d3$7395a880$95703ed8@compaq> The grant cards are as they should be. The unit is exactly as it is when I received it. There are some empty slots, but not any empty D slots. Removing the terminator worked. I still see nothing on the console. What should I do now? Thanks, Owen From pdp-11 at swbell.net Fri Sep 29 00:30:56 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: <000601c029d3$7395a880$95703ed8@compaq> Message-ID: <000701c029d6$71ebe8c0$3d703ed8@compaq> I think I found the problem. According to the processor handbook, the M9301 contains the Console Emulator ROM. My PDP-11/34 doesn't have an M9301. Do you think that could be it? Thanks, Owen From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 29 00:53:58 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VAXstation 4000/VLC and Tape Drives In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000928123109.0239f780@208.226.86.10> References: Message-ID: >What SCSI ID is the VLC? I'm guessing its using ID 6 as the host adapter >target (same as your 4mm) >--Chuck Well, I'm finally home and that was in fact the problem. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From tarsi at binhost.com Fri Sep 29 01:05:51 2000 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <39D400F6.9AA2C02D@home.net> References: <012201c029bc$294d5be0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000929010359.00b24440@binhost.com> >Would a 3 ft long insulated screw driver and ground wire going to a >cold water pipe qualify (yes that's how we did it at a repair center)? >I hated those loud bangs! I've found wiring in a 10 or 100 megaohm resistor in series with the ground wire helps bleed off the juice a little slower and more controlled. At any rate, when working inside a CRT, I usually use aligator clips on leads clipped to everything, and to each other, and then one leading to a known ground source (water pipe, etc). That way I ensure that any extra power doesn't try to find a way home through me. Tarsi 210 210-------------210-------------------210 VISIT OrangeCAM! http://orangenet.dhs.org/~cam/ tarsi@binhost.com http://orangenet.dhs.org http://www.binhost.com/~tarsi http://tfb.dhs.org 210-------------210-------------------210 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 29 01:20:24 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: cloning VMS installs? Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000928231826.02aae360@208.226.86.10> Hi everyone, I'm trying to do fairly complete VMS installs on several machines before Saturday and I was wondering if there was a better way. Specifically, is it possible to create a standalone backup of a freshly installed system and then restore that on several machines ? (I realize that you have to replace the VAX-VMS license but other than that, and changing the SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID is that all that is necessary? --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Sep 28 12:59:32 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: Adrian Graham "RE: VT320 connector" (Sep 28, 10:01) References: <00Sep28.100135bst.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <10009281859.ZM16589@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 28, 10:01, Adrian Graham wrote: > Jerome typed thusly: > > > I acquired a couple of VT320 terminals, but I forgot about > > the DEC offset connector at the rear. On inquiry, I am told > > that they come in two flavours: > > (a) Separate DB25 (female or male) with DEC cable offset > > connection along with a separate cable with the DEC offset > > at each end > > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) which normally MMJ -- Modified Modular Jack; it's based on an an RJ11 but with the latch offset. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From flo at rdel.co.uk Fri Sep 29 02:49:44 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector References: <00d701c029be$d4672b30$360f9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39D44998.FC594214@rdel.co.uk> ajp166 wrote: > > From: Tony Duell > >I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). Does anyone > >know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? > > > >-tony > > Tony is correct. That is the DEC description and usage save for > here we do use both jack and the plug that goes into it. So MMJ > is the most common MMP with it being Modified Modular Plug > is right but uncommon. It has always been my understanding that a jack is a hole, and a jack plug fits into it. I can see how "jack plug" could become contracted to "jack", though. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Sep 29 03:31:47 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector Message-ID: <00Sep29.093149bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> They're both true :) The MMJ (jack) is what you plug an MMP (plug) into! > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: 28 September 2000 21:04 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VT320 connector > > > [VT320 cabling] > > > (a) Separate DB25 (female or male) with DEC cable offset > > > connection along with a separate cable with the DEC offset > > > at each end > > > > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) > which normally > > I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). > Does anyone > know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? > > -tony > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Sep 29 03:48:21 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: cloning VMS installs? Message-ID: <00Sep29.094821bst.46099@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> I don't see why not; VMS itself isn't tied into the SID of the machine. Obviously just install onto one disk in one machine then transfer that vanilla install via STABACKIT onto the others....I gather we're talking VAXen here? I love booting standalone backup off tape.....:o) Not. What I've done in the past is install onto one system then put that disk into the next machine and image backup across onto another one etc.....ISTR there weren't any problems, but it was a few years ago! a > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck McManis [mailto:cmcmanis@mcmanis.com] > Sent: 29 September 2000 07:40 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: cloning VMS installs? > > > Hi everyone, I'm trying to do fairly complete VMS installs on several > machines before Saturday and I was wondering if there was a > better way. > Specifically, is it possible to create a standalone backup of > a freshly > installed system and then restore that on several machines ? > (I realize > that you have to replace the VAX-VMS license but other than that, and > changing the SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID is that all that is necessary? > > --Chuck > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Sep 29 04:55:46 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000701c029d6$71ebe8c0$3d703ed8@compaq> from Owen Robertson at "Sep 29, 2000 00:30:56 am" Message-ID: <200009290955.e8T9tks00502@bg-tc-ppp899.monmouth.com> > I think I found the problem. According to the processor handbook, the M9301 > contains the Console Emulator ROM. My PDP-11/34 doesn't have an M9301. Do > you think that could be it? > > Thanks, > Owen The 9312 is a similar (later design) equivalent... Is there one of those? Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Fri Sep 29 08:43:31 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VCF Message-ID: <001001c02a1b$420e7060$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> Hi, See you all tomorrow at the VCF. For those who care I'll be wearing a TOPO TOPO TOPO TOPO HELLLLO T-Shirt. I hope to get to meet some of you... Francois From pdp-11 at swbell.net Fri Sep 29 09:36:35 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: <200009290955.e8T9tks00502@bg-tc-ppp899.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <000e01c02a22$abea7d60$5c713ed8@compaq> Yes. Mine has an M9312. I can halt the system now, but nothing appears on the terminal screen. Also -- should the RUN light be coming on when I first turn on the CPU? Thanks, Owen From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 29 10:20:39 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? Message-ID: Well, here's an unpleasant fact... the troubleshooting part of the 11/34A maintenance card suggests "bad KY11-LB" if the run light is lit and there is nothing on the console.. Just in case you don't have the connections right on the M9312, here they are: the black wire from the console goes to TP4, the red wire goes to TP1, and the other wire goes to TP3. FYI, the KY11-LB is the front panel with switches, the KY11-LA is the one without... Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From jwest at mppw.com Fri Sep 29 10:53:46 2000 From: jwest at mppw.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: 3b2 tape request Message-ID: Greetings folks; I have a friend who got into 3b2 gear recently. He needs a boot tape for SYSV322. Aparently the boot code for his system has some special code for his model so not just any 3b2 boot tape will work? His system is a 3b2/600G. Can anyone help? Jay West From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 29 12:00:11 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Sep 28, 0 01:55:18 pm Message-ID: >> Yuck I have some of these, either miniDin9 or close on one end, looks like >> RJ11 on the other (hoped they were serial cables for Seiko label printers), >> but clearly marked DECconnect Office Cable. Rats. > >DECconnect Office Cable is just what it says -- a cable. A flat, 6 wire >cable IIRC. You could buy a reel of it from DEC and use it how you liked >-- not necessarily for linking up DEC machines. > >So your cables could have been designed for just about anything. Finding the pinout of the Seiko label printers was the hard part. I kept buying the printers without cables, thinking "soon" I will find the pinout on the net or find a cable to check, but it took many months (pretty sure I have it now). From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 29 11:57:54 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: cloning VMS installs? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000928231826.02aae360@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >Hi everyone, I'm trying to do fairly complete VMS installs on several >machines before Saturday and I was wondering if there was a better way. >Specifically, is it possible to create a standalone backup of a freshly >installed system and then restore that on several machines ? (I realize >that you have to replace the VAX-VMS license but other than that, and >changing the SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID is that all that is necessary? > >--Chuck I'd say do the basic install, don't run the config's such as CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM or TCPIP$CONFIG.COM then boot standalone and do a BACKUP/IMAGE DUA0: DUA1: Put the resulting disk in a machine and do the configs and load the licenses. I think you should be fine at that point, though I've never really tried it. When I move system disks from one machine to another it's because I'm upgrading that machine and all I've had to deal with so far was the Ethernet device changing. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Sep 29 12:17:18 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: [OT^2] Re: Our fine educational system (was: Login on VMS) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB195@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Peter Joules wrote on 9/27/00 4:28 pm: > > >> I think I managed to hit > >100+MPH on a few occasions. > >> > >> WHEEEEEEE!! > > > >I thought all Americans drove > >at no more than the 50? > >limit ;-) > > > >-- > >Regards > >Pete > > > not really. My friends and I went out mischiefing one > evening.l didn't drive so my friend took us. We hit 130 mph > on the local highway. Ok, until recently (every suspension component needs replacing) my '86 Quattro was pretty fast... on a long flat section of I-64 in southern Indiana, I had it up to 140mph. I think the car had more to give, but my cajones max out at 140. And just to get this back on topic, stock, this car won't go that fast, but I modified the engine controller, a 6805-based embedded processor, by customizing the ROM to not dump the turbo's boost out the wastegate as soon (stock, boost maxes out at 1.3bar, but mine makes it up to 1.8bar), and by adding a bit more fuel via the fuel frequency valve to keep from putting holes in the tops of the pistons. Since the engine controller, like the car, was built in 1986, it vaguely qualifies as being over 10 years old. Stomp on that accelerator, then: one-mississippi, two mississippi, Whoosh! -doug q From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Sep 29 12:20:15 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB196@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR RECENTLY POWERED OFF > >MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. > > Just how recently would recently be? Just get out your welding cables and triple layers of rubber gloves, connect one end of the cable to the nearest water pipe, then wedge the tip of an aluminum welding rod up underneath the flyback's attachment to the crt, and prepare for fireworks. YMMV. 8D -dq From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 29 12:43:20 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Recent finds In-Reply-To: <20000929011944.16343@mail.lafayette.edu> References: <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: Sometimes its the little things, sometimes the big ones. Items bringing me joy this week (something has to since I can't go to VCF ;( I found two Tandy labeled and two Grid labeled AC adapters, all with the same output plug and 16.5 v something amp ratings. Later in the week I found a Barco 2846 multidata 28" color monitor (supports NTSC/PAL RGB, svga, and mac with switches). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Sep 29 12:36:31 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <20000929011944.16343@mail.lafayette.edu> References: <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> Message-ID: >>DON'T EVER GO INSIDE A RUNNING OR RECENTLY POWERED OFF >>MONITOR OR TV WITH A CRT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. > >Just how recently would recently be? If you have to ask, doesn't that kind of imply you don't know what your doing? The time varies depending on the humidity and the design of the set. From frederik at freddym.org Fri Sep 29 12:17:59 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! > >> > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) > >> which normally > >> > >> I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). > >> Does anyone know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? > > > >On mine, the connector lacks any designation; however, the > >cable says "DECconnect Office Cable". > It is MMJ, but AFAIK that's just the Jack itself and not the whole cable. DEC has called the whole Cable a DECconnect Office Cable. And I think it's the best serial cable I've ever seen... -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 29 13:13:30 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000929110001.00c30970@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Is there some known bug with the TCP/IP implementation of telnet in the DEC version of TCP/IP ? I installed a fairly recent version of TCP/IP on my 10 year old VAX and when I telnet to it the VAX is driven to its knees and the hub goes wild. Doing a trace on the packets reveals zillions of 10:56:25.213012 unix.1714 > vax.telnet: P 36303:36314(11) ack 20085 win 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] 10:56:25.216076 vax.telnet > unix.1714: P 20085:20091(6) ack 36314 win 4369 10:56:25.216856 unix.1714 > vax.telnet: P 36314:36325(11) ack 20091 win 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] 10:56:25.219984 vax.telnet > unix.1714: P 20091:20097(6) ack 36325 win 4369 10:56:25.220726 unix.1714 > vax.telnet: P 36325:36336(11) ack 20097 win 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] As you can see from the trace a couple of things are strange. Why are the windows screwed up? Why are the TOS bits set? Very confusing. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 29 15:14:49 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000929110001.00c30970@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 29, 2000 11:13:30 AM Message-ID: <200009292014.NAA18970@shell1.aracnet.com> Chuck, Are you running TCPIP or UCX? Basically you should be running TCPIP V5.0A (though I'm still on V5.0). With V5.0 on the VAX I've had no problem whatsoever. BTW, your best bet would be to post this question to comp.os.vms, and include accurate version info, and hardware info. Zane > > Is there some known bug with the TCP/IP implementation of telnet in the DEC > version of TCP/IP ? I installed a fairly recent version of TCP/IP on my 10 > year old VAX and when I telnet to it the VAX is driven to its knees and the > hub goes wild. Doing a trace on the packets reveals zillions of > > 10:56:25.213012 unix.1714 > vax.telnet: P 36303:36314(11) ack 20085 win > 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] > 10:56:25.216076 vax.telnet > unix.1714: P 20085:20091(6) ack 36314 win 4369 > 10:56:25.216856 unix.1714 > vax.telnet: P 36314:36325(11) ack 20091 win > 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] > 10:56:25.219984 vax.telnet > unix.1714: P 20091:20097(6) ack 36325 win 4369 > 10:56:25.220726 unix.1714 > vax.telnet: P 36325:36336(11) ack 20097 win > 17520 (DF) [tos 0x10] > > As you can see from the trace a couple of things are strange. Why are the > windows screwed up? Why are the TOS bits set? Very confusing. > > --Chuck > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 13:15:34 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <012201c029bc$294d5be0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> from "Geoffrey G. Rochat" at Sep 28, 0 10:22:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/f970a4b0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 13:22:01 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <39D400F6.9AA2C02D@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Sep 28, 0 10:39:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/0735c049/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 13:26:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000601c029d3$7395a880$95703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 29, 0 00:09:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 950 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/a04a50e6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 13:27:35 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000701c029d6$71ebe8c0$3d703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 29, 0 00:30:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 409 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/df63dc79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 12:58:08 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <009f01c029af$59babdc0$c6a17ed8@xyz.wmsnet.com> from "Geoffrey G. Rochat" at Sep 28, 0 08:50:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 8549 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/62ceb646/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 13:07:04 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Slowly blowing a CRT? In-Reply-To: <20000929011944.16343@mail.lafayette.edu> from "Tom Owad" at Sep 28, 0 09:19:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1845 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/25d152bc/attachment.ksh From pdp-11 at swbell.net Fri Sep 29 16:41:00 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? References: Message-ID: <000601c02a5e$0c6f7f60$aa723ed8@compaq> All the connections are OK. So, I assume the only way to get it to work is to replace the KY11B? Thanks, Owen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 16:52:27 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Got my PDP-11/34! Now what? In-Reply-To: <000601c02a5e$0c6f7f60$aa723ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Sep 29, 0 04:41:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1002 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000929/b63ec1aa/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Sep 29 15:32:19 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VT320 connector In-Reply-To: Adrian Graham "RE: VT320 connector" (Sep 29, 9:31) References: <00Sep29.093149bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <10009292132.ZM17315@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Sep 29, 9:31, Adrian Graham wrote: > They're both true :) The MMJ (jack) is what you plug an MMP (plug) into! > > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > > > The connector is the 6-pin MMP (Moulded Modular Plug ISTR) > > which normally > > > > I've always called them MMJs (Modified Modular Jack IIRC). > > Does anyone > > know which of us (if either) is nearer the truth? Well, FWIW, AMP (who invented them) refer to them as MMJs or MMJ plugs :-) Logically, of course, a jack is the socket and a plug is, well, ... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Sep 29 17:22:52 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: cloning VMS installs? Message-ID: <007901c02a64$bac458a0$290f9a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >Hi everyone, I'm trying to do fairly complete VMS installs on several >machines before Saturday and I was wondering if there was a better way. >Specifically, is it possible to create a standalone backup of a freshly >installed system and then restore that on several machines ? (I realize >that you have to replace the VAX-VMS license but other than that, and >changing the SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID is that all that is necessary? > Go for it, saves time. Use STABACKIT to clone the drive afer install but minimal confiuration. I've done it with fully configured drives as well. Allison From vcf at siconic.com Fri Sep 29 16:57:31 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VCF Madness! Message-ID: Well, I'm rushing about as always before the big weekend getting everything ready. I'm more prepared than ever this time around so everything should go smoothly. I look forward to seeing everyone from the list who's coming to VCF. This is going to be a great weekend! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Fri Sep 29 17:03:37 2000 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (jos.mar) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Davos PDP8/A's In-Reply-To: <200009231426.KAA27188@drs-esg.com> References: <200009231426.KAA27188@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <00093000332401.00362@jos> The Davos PDP/8A stuff has been ( partially ) collected. The machines have been used ( and modified ) extensivly well upto 1995 at the Meteoroligical Observatory in Davos . http://www.pmodwrc.ch While making up the list of modules I noticed that one of the *8/A CPU"'s actually has a PDP8/E CPU board set instead of the M8315. Does this work ? And will the 8/A programmes console work with this ? Both machines do not have core memory but the 32K mos memory option. Part of the haul were 300 pcs Dectapes. Of these about 200 are from Scotch . If anybody is in dire need of some dectapes...... Not collected were some spare parts : PDP8/E power supply , TU56 (drive) power supply packs and 4 RK05 head/voicecoile assemblies. These could be made available if needed. I will need considerable time to sort things out.... Jos Dreesen From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 29 18:32:26 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Davos PDP8/A's In-Reply-To: <00093000332401.00362@jos> from "jos.mar" at Sep 30, 0 00:03:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000930/74fc4fb7/attachment.ksh From r.stek at snet.net Fri Sep 29 19:21:05 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies Workslate Message-ID: I recently acquired a Workslate and matching printer in excellent condition - still a pretty cool looking unit. The guy I got them from thought it ran CP/M, but it uses a 6803 with its own proprietary 'OS.' The manuals make no mention of the specs for the (missing) wall warts. Does anyone have a Workslate with the power supplies? Since both units use 4 AA, alkaline or nicads, I guess it's not too critical. Also, knowing the polarity would be helpful. Thanks. Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 29 19:58:26 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <200009292014.NAA18970@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000929110001.00c30970@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000929175437.0289f410@208.226.86.10> Well, someone has not only reported it on comp.os.vms but figured out what it is, the VMS telnet server in TCPIP 5.0A gets into an infinite loop trying to negotiate ECHO which the client. It sends WILL_ECHO and the client sends DONT_ECHO again and again and again. Sigh. This has cost me enough time that I'm probably going to be demonstrating VMS system installs at the VCF :-). I hope to have one MicroVAX II/GPX in a BA123, one VAX 4000/200 in a BA430, and one VAXServer 3400 (BA213) for sale. Should be interesting... --Chuck At 01:14 PM 9/29/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >Are you running TCPIP or UCX? Basically you should be running TCPIP V5.0A >(though I'm still on V5.0). With V5.0 on the VAX I've had no problem >whatsoever. > >BTW, your best bet would be to post this question to comp.os.vms, and >include accurate version info, and hardware info. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 29 21:05:46 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000929175437.0289f410@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 29, 2000 05:58:26 PM Message-ID: <200009300205.TAA29170@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Well, someone has not only reported it on comp.os.vms but figured out what > it is, the VMS telnet server in TCPIP 5.0A gets into an infinite loop OK, you win 1st Prize in the understatement catagory! You'd said a fairly recent version of TCP/IP. Uh, V5.0A *IS* Current. > trying to negotiate ECHO which the client. It sends WILL_ECHO and the > client sends DONT_ECHO again and again and again. Sigh. This has cost me Is there a fix? I don't think there are any Patches for 5.0A available, though I might be mistaken as I've not looked recently. > enough time that I'm probably going to be demonstrating VMS system installs > at the VCF :-). I hope to have one MicroVAX II/GPX in a BA123, one VAX > 4000/200 in a BA430, and one VAXServer 3400 (BA213) for sale. Should be > interesting... Suddenly I'm glad I'm not going to be there. I'd love a 4000/200 :^) Oh, well. While everyone is having fun at VCF I'll be working a major upgrade to my Hobbyist Cluster. Zane From ss at allegro.com Fri Sep 29 21:17:50 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:41 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies Workslate In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39D4EADE.32688.1E97436@localhost> Re: > manuals make no mention of the specs for the (missing) wall warts. Does > anyone have a Workslate with the power supplies? Since both units use 4 AA, ywa > alkaline or nicads, I guess it's not too critical. Also, knowing the > polarity would be helpful. Power Supply, model WK-102: Input: AC 120 V 60 Hz 150 mA Output: DC 6 V 750 mA negative tip (positive shield) Note: that's what's listed on the supply...I didn't have chance to test it. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 29 22:49:35 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <200009300205.TAA29170@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000929175437.0289f410@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000929204722.00e08ad0@208.226.86.10> At 07:05 PM 9/29/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >Suddenly I'm glad I'm not going to be there. I'd love a 4000/200 :^) Oh, >well. While everyone is having fun at VCF I'll be working a major upgrade >to my Hobbyist Cluster. My exhibit is named "VAX House" and one the displays is going to be the TinyCluster, three VLC's stacked with a monitor on top, a keyboard in front, and a 4 port hub (3 ports + 1 uplink to the real world) It should be a 4 port switch but that will have to come a bit later. Sort of "15 VUPS the hard way :-)" --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 29 22:51:05 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <200009300205.TAA29170@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000929175437.0289f410@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000929205005.00e0a3e0@208.226.86.10> At 07:05 PM 9/29/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >OK, you win 1st Prize in the understatement catagory! You'd said a fairly >recent version of TCP/IP. Uh, V5.0A *IS* Current. Yup, I scored the Dec 1999 ConDist on Ebay and that left we fairly up to date. I did download the 7.2-1 patch from the ftp server though. :-) --Chuck From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Sep 29 23:12:03 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual Message-ID: <200009300412.XAA24381@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Does someone have a scanner with a sheet feeder attachment, and also have the desire to scan in the "VT100 series video terminal technical manual"? Its about 1.5 inches thick, all 3 hole punched pages. I assume others would find this manual worth downloading. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Sep 29 23:24:04 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000929205005.00e0a3e0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 29, 2000 08:51:05 PM Message-ID: <200009300424.VAA08011@shell1.aracnet.com> > > At 07:05 PM 9/29/00 -0700, Zane wrote: > >OK, you win 1st Prize in the understatement catagory! You'd said a fairly > >recent version of TCP/IP. Uh, V5.0A *IS* Current. > > Yup, I scored the Dec 1999 ConDist on Ebay and that left we fairly up to > date. I did download the 7.2-1 patch from the ftp server though. :-) > > --Chuck > > > WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! WHERE DO YOU DOWNLOAD THE 7.2-1 PATCH?!?!?!?! Does it include the V5.0A Patch? I knew the CD is only like $20, but this is the first I've heard about downloading it! BTW, I thought you were running VAX, 7.2-1 is only for Alpha's :^) Congrat's on the Dec '99 ConDist. I'm stuck at late '98, but can borrow the Dec '99 from my neighbor. Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Sep 29 23:44:25 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <200009300424.VAA08011@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20000929205005.00e0a3e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000929214014.00e56230@208.226.86.10> At 09:24 PM 9/29/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! WHERE DO YOU DOWNLOAD THE 7.2-1 PATCH?!?!?!?! >Does it include the V5.0A Patch? No, the TCPIP50A kit is on the 1999 ConDist. >I knew the CD is only like $20, but this is the >first I've heard about downloading it! BTW, I thought you were running VAX, >7.2-1 is only for Alpha's :^) Sorry, I am running VAX. Perhaps this doesn't bring VAX fully up to the Alpha version of 7.2 but it fixed a couple of bugs I needed fixed (KFQSA support for one) --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Sep 30 00:05:05 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VAX VMS TCP/IP bug? w/ Telnet In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000929214014.00e56230@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Sep 29, 2000 09:44:25 PM Message-ID: <200009300505.WAA11400@shell1.aracnet.com> > >Does it include the V5.0A Patch? > > No, the TCPIP50A kit is on the 1999 ConDist. Ah, I hadn't realized that. > Sorry, I am running VAX. Perhaps this doesn't bring VAX fully up to the > Alpha version of 7.2 but it fixed a couple of bugs I needed fixed (KFQSA > support for one) Sounds like what you've really got is the patched version of 7.2, I thought that was to good to be true. :^) Still the V5.0A info is good news, but from the sounds of things I'm not sure I want to try it. Actually I'm wanting to test Multinet as it looks to have everything I need that TCPIP doesn't. Zane From stewart_kevin at hotmail.com Sat Sep 30 00:19:30 2000 From: stewart_kevin at hotmail.com (Kevin Stewart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies Workslate References: Message-ID: I have one of these -- the guy I got it from claimed that is was a prototype Palm Pilot (NO idea where he got that from) but it was a cool looking machine so I picked it up anyway. Only $8, what the hell... But I haven't really been able to do anything useful with it -- there's a little spreadsheet program, text editor, tape recorder, 300 baud modem + comms software, but my TI-86 graphing calculator can do all of this (including the modem, up to 9600 bps ;) ) Kevin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Stek" To: Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 8:21 PM Subject: Convergent Technologies Workslate > I recently acquired a Workslate and matching printer in excellent > condition - still a pretty cool looking unit. The guy I got them from > thought it ran CP/M, but it uses a 6803 with its own proprietary 'OS.' The > manuals make no mention of the specs for the (missing) wall warts. Does > anyone have a Workslate with the power supplies? Since both units use 4 AA, > alkaline or nicads, I guess it's not too critical. Also, knowing the > polarity would be helpful. > > Thanks. > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Sep 30 12:47:40 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual In-Reply-To: <200009300412.XAA24381@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hello Lawrence On 29-Sep-00, you wrote: > Does someone have a scanner with a sheet feeder attachment, and also have > the desire to scan in the "VT100 series video terminal technical manual"? > > Its about 1.5 inches thick, all 3 hole punched pages. > > I assume others would find this manual worth downloading. Wish I had it ten years ago -- I was using one with an old Cromemco S100 buss box we had for weather graphics. > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Sep 30 07:03:09 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual In-Reply-To: <200009300412.XAA24381@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: I have access to one... I haven't used it, but supposedly it will email a PDF file :) Contact me OL if you want. clint PS I also have a VT100 printset available On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Does someone have a scanner with a sheet feeder attachment, and also have > the desire to scan in the "VT100 series video terminal technical manual"? > > Its about 1.5 inches thick, all 3 hole punched pages. > > I assume others would find this manual worth downloading. > > -Lawrence LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > From flo at rdel.co.uk Sat Sep 30 07:17:01 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual References: <200009300412.XAA24381@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <39D5D9BD.C7E7A4A3@rdel.co.uk> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Does someone have a scanner with a sheet feeder attachment, and also > have the desire to scan in the "VT100 series video terminal technical > manual"? I don't have a sheet feeder attachment, but I'd buy one in order to do this. The VT100 Technical Manual would make a great addition to VT100.net. Are you saying that your copy is for sale? -- Paul Williams http://vt100.net/ From r.stek at snet.net Sat Sep 30 09:02:09 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: Convergent Technologies Workslate In-Reply-To: <39D4EADE.32688.1E97436@localhost> Message-ID: Thanks, Stan. Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Stan Sieler [mailto:ss@allegro.com] > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 10:18 PM > To: Robert Stek; classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Convergent Technologies Workslate > > > Re: > > > manuals make no mention of the specs for the (missing) wall warts. Does > > anyone have a Workslate with the power supplies? Since both > units use 4 AA, > > ywa > > > alkaline or nicads, I guess it's not too critical. Also, knowing the > > polarity would be helpful. > > Power Supply, model WK-102: > > Input: AC 120 V > 60 Hz > 150 mA > > Output: DC 6 V > 750 mA > negative tip (positive shield) > > Note: that's what's listed on the supply...I didn't have chance > to test it. > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Sep 30 12:12:40 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual In-Reply-To: <39D5D9BD.C7E7A4A3@rdel.co.uk> from Paul Williams at "Sep 30, 2000 01:17:01 pm" Message-ID: <200009301712.MAA24890@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Does someone have a scanner with a sheet feeder attachment, and also > > have the desire to scan in the "VT100 series video terminal technical > > manual"? > > I don't have a sheet feeder attachment, but I'd buy one in order to do > this. The VT100 Technical Manual would make a great addition to > VT100.net. Are you saying that your copy is for sale? > > -- > Paul Williams > http://vt100.net/ > Actually, now that I think about it, since the pages are double-sided, do the scanners come with software to deal with this? I dont really want to sell the manual. I just dont have the time to scan it in. Those sheet feeder scanners are extremely expensive, or they were a couple years back. -Lawrence LeMay From celigne at tinyworld.co.uk Sat Sep 30 14:18:58 2000 From: celigne at tinyworld.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual References: <200009301712.MAA24890@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <39D63CA2.DA881F8B@tinyworld.co.uk> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Those sheet feeder scanners are extremely expensive, > or they were a couple years back. Scanners have come down a lot in price. I've just been looking at the Epson Perfection 1640SU Office, which comes with a sheet feeder. That's only just over UKP 300. (Of course, my idea of "only" and yours may vary!) It looks like the feeder would only allow you to scan a single side at a time. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sat Sep 30 16:48:46 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:42 2005 Subject: VT100 series video terminal technical manual In-Reply-To: <39D63CA2.DA881F8B@tinyworld.co.uk> from Paul Williams at "Sep 30, 2000 08:18:58 pm" Message-ID: <200009302148.QAA25211@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > Those sheet feeder scanners are extremely expensive, > > or they were a couple years back. > > Scanners have come down a lot in price. I've just been looking at the > Epson Perfection 1640SU Office, which comes with a sheet feeder. That's > only just over UKP 300. (Of course, my idea of "only" and yours may > vary!) > It looks like the feeder would only allow you to scan a single side at a > time. > Yup, i coulda sworn a scanner with sheet feeder was around $2,500 dollars a couple years ago, and now they're $500. I already bought a 11x17 scanner, so another isnt feasable. -Lawrence LeMay